2024 Week Thirteen Review: Tough Loss to Penn State, Decisions!, Playoffs, Wisconsin

With Thanksgiving approaching Justin Gaard wanted to let Chip Scoggins and Ryan Burns talk through their disagreement regarding one particular play of the Gophers loss to Penn State on Saturday night. The guys then recapped what was a great college football game where the Gophers came up just short before talking about Ohio State/Indiana and what it means for the CFP and previewing the Wisconsin game on Friday.   

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Glenn Mason said a long time ago at the University
of Minnesota, you need a Pair and a Spare. Thank you, PJ.
It is time for another edition of the Pair and
a Spare podcast. I'm justin Guard from the Fan, Chipskogins
from The Star, tributing Ryan Burns from Gopher Illustrated dot com.
We are brought to you, as always by our great
partners at Jack's Cafe. Breakfast with Santa starts Saturday, December seventh,
the seventh, fourteenth, and twenty first. You can learn more

(00:21):
about it at Jackscafe dot com. Setings between nine and eleven.
They've got a holiday Happening section of the website at
Jackscafe dot com. So as I click on the Holiday
Happening section here, it's Breakfast with Santa, it's holiday buffet brunches.
It's New Year's Eve, it's New Year's Day, a champagne
buffet brunch. It's all good for you at Jack's Cafe.

(00:42):
How's everybody doing today, guys? We good. Last regular season
game coming up. This is crazy.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
It's flown by, hasn't it.

Speaker 3 (00:50):
It's yeah, it's it goes by too quick. We spend
all off season and then it's waiting. Yeah, now it's
three days until a game. National signing days next week,
the portal opens after that coaching carousel, I mean, it's.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Just now it starts to get ramped up almost.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Is it busier for you non week? Uh when the
portal with all that opens or during the game week.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
I think December is now the most is my busiest
time of year with National Signing Day moved up to
as early as it ever has been December fourth, So
as you're listening to this eight days away, maybe seven
days away if you're listening to this day before Thanksgiving.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
But even the portal stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
It's portal opens I think on the ninth closes on
the twenty eighth. We're going to see as much roster
departures or as many, I should say, as we've seen
it some time. With the one oh five coming into effects.
You've got coaching carousel stuff with Finally, I think we've
had our first Power four departure with Mac Brown getting
fired here this morning, or I think the way they

(01:54):
worded it, not expected to return or not going to return.
So he'll get his final game and he'll get his fine.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
I'll send off.

Speaker 3 (02:00):
But yeah, it really the month of December is one
where Chip, I'll tell you I got a portable charger.
I'm gonna put a little label on it that says Chip.
And so every time I plug my phone in as
I'm doing something, I'm gonna thank to you.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, well that's an early sign December fourth signing day.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
It got moved up, so the coaches actually get a
little bit of a reprieve to an extent with the
coaches do not go on the road at all in December.
It is a dead period in and around the signing day,
and then it's a quiet period.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
It's a quiet period that just.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
Means recruits can come to campus, but you can't leave
campus to go evaluate them.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
It's never been like that before.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
Usually it's like a seventeen day rush of the coaches
and PJ with a private jet going to see everybody
in their families and their homes. That was one of
the changes they tried to make for quality of life
for these coaches.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Is I like it is that a coaches that that
was a coach's request.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
Yes, absolutely one, Yeah, that's good.

Speaker 4 (03:01):
I mean, just finish your season, have signed the day
and then because the portal, I mean that's become a
beast in itself, so you don't need to be going
to watch guys.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
Play high school basketball or whatever. They're doing it in
seventeen days and.

Speaker 4 (03:19):
Practice and the portal where you know, I was listening
to PJ yesterday, all right, I was reading your transcript
where it is interesting that he said during the bye week,
he's already having interviews with players to try to get
a sense of who's staying and who's going.

Speaker 3 (03:37):
That's the new reality of college football, especially with the
second bye week so late in the year, is Yeah,
they're having conversations with guys like Jalen Logan reading Devin
Eastern like, hey, yeah, we all know you have another
year to come back. Do you want to come back,
Do you want to hang it up? Do you want
to what? What are your demands? What are they not?

Speaker 1 (03:56):
And that's where.

Speaker 3 (03:58):
Yeah, there's there's a lot of things going on behind
the scenes with them trying to figure out roster retention
right now. The nice part is Dinky Town athletes and
their members have put them in a much better spot
than they were a year ago to be able to
I think adequately compensate or make very very competitive offers
I will say to the coy Perritches and the Darius

(04:20):
Taylor's of the world. But yeah, when you have your
Tennessee bagman, when they're McDonald's bags and they're ten million
dollar budgets, it's always kind to keep up with the Joneses,
or at least I don't know who the biggest boosters
are at Tennessee, Chipper, but keeping up with the Hillbillies
and the Appalachia Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
And government agent Chips Goggins, you know, working he's had
this facade of not technology. I'm sure Chip is huge
in crypto right now. I'm sure he's made billions of
crypto in this whole thing that he doesn't even put
his credit card on his phone.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
YEA, one of those guys.

Speaker 4 (04:58):
When I die, you're gonna find the money under my
mind attress, That's what it's gonna be.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
Yeah, well, I'm gonna know where to look and say, Hey,
what's up here? Chip said, I can take this mattress.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
Hey, Bersey.

Speaker 4 (05:07):
So we'll get to the game, because, uh, I mean
that game had so many tentacles and stuff unpacked.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
But do you think the NIO you talking about it? Uh?
I wonder if PJ.

Speaker 4 (05:21):
Will will be tempted to go get a quarterback in
the portal, a veteran, a guy who's I think you
almost have to write you don't want to your top
two on your depth chart to be freshman.

Speaker 3 (05:35):
It's a delicate balance. I'll say that I know that
they've had those conversations this season behind the.

Speaker 1 (05:40):
Scenes in terms of what do we do.

Speaker 3 (05:43):
It wouldn't shock me if they do get a transfer quarterback,
but I would say this, don't expect anything close to
Max Prosmer because the plan in place, especially with the
conversations they've had with the freshman Drake Lindsay, is he's
going to be handed the keys and they want him
to be the guy going forward. Now do I feel
great about that with him? Dylan Wicki, who's the Virginia

(06:06):
Tech transfer they took last year, and then it would
probably be Jackson Collak being your number three. I don't
feel great about it. I really don't. But if you
go get a Max Brozmer esque, I don't think just
at the day and age of this is college football.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
Now.

Speaker 3 (06:24):
I get your hesitation with it, but every indication I've
heard from Dinky Town is Drake Lindsay is going to
be handed the keys.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah. I mean it's interesting because I don't think.

Speaker 4 (06:36):
I mean, you know, what if what if he's struggles
or you don't want to go to that path or
he gets hurt.

Speaker 3 (06:43):
I mean, me, what you think of Drake lindsay, it's
what you think of Dylan Wiki. I don't know that
I've seen enough from him to say I feel great
about him as your QB two. I'd go get a
different guy from the portal probably, But it's there's a
now an art to it. And I asked PJ about
it yesterday because the one oh five is coming where

(07:03):
Minnesota has I think one hundred and seventeen players on
their roster right now, Nebraska is at like one point thirty,
So everybody has to be underneath one hundred and five
or at one hundred and five by believe it's August
by the time fall camp starts. So now you have
to almost think about this roster construction wise, with how
many quarterbacks do you want?

Speaker 1 (07:22):
How many running backs do you want?

Speaker 3 (07:24):
I mean, there's a lot of different things that have
to go into it, and that's where you're going to
see a lot of walk ons lose lose their spots.
It's just the reality of what it's going to be.
So a Max chicken Janski. While I expect him back
for the spring, we'll see what happens. It's just there's
a lot of different things that Fleck even said yesterday,
and I agree with him. I think he's being truthful.
And we're going through it for the first time now

(07:46):
we have to kind of learn on the fly here
how we adjust. But yeah, quarterbacks is going to be
one of those spots we're gonna spend a lot of
time on this offseason.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
Well, mostly because handing it to a red shirt freshman
is kind of a bag on what everybody else is
doing now. Right, because of the portal, you just usually
just go find a guy that might be a junior,
or might be you know, might be a senior sophomore.
Maybe get the youngest that's looking for a starting opportunity.
But there's so many experienced quarterbacks out there that are

(08:16):
looking for work and looking for their next job. How
many how many transfer quarterbacks we talked about in the
old Big Ten West days? Right, wasn't Minnesota last year
the only team that didn't have a transfer when it
was Athan and funny he transferred. He's at Rutgers. Now,
most Big ten quarterbacks, they're not really working with homegrown talent,
right unless I'm forgetting some obvious ones. Like it's kind

(08:38):
of a zag too. Now we know they love Drake
Lindsay and Max Brozemer talked to me about Drake Lindsay
last week. Tanner Morgan, same thing. They love him, they're
excited about him. I'm sure they sold opportunity to get
him here because I think they had to hang on
to him Burnsey, you can correct me if I'm wrong.
A lot of people were coming after him late. So
I'm sure they want to make good on their promise
that this was the opportunity that was presented and this

(08:59):
is why you're here. But it's definitely a zag, even
though they like them very much.

Speaker 3 (09:04):
Well, I think the other way you have to look
at it, too, is what is the starting quarterback and
the portal go for in twenty twenty four, it's going.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
To be.

Speaker 3 (09:12):
Quarter half million, if not more. And when you look
at the holes on this roster elsewhere, Yep, you're replacing
most of your offensive line, replacing both corners. I mean,
offensive line is going to be the most expensive thing
from the portal, period corners, two starting corners from the portal,
or at least one that has significant value that's going

(09:33):
to be expensive. So I think you also have to
start to look at it as would we rather go
get a quarterback, which most important position in football, arguably
in sports. I get it, but I also think you
got to look at roster construction for next year and say,
even receiver Daniel Jackson and Elijah Spencer are leaving, you
got a lot of other holes and you have an
X amount of budget. That's where I think it would

(09:54):
probably be better spent trying to address some of the other holes.
But I get the hesitation one hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
All right, anything else we want to talk about before
we jump into Penn State, anything portal related? This will
be great. Next week we'll have a big signing day deal.
Maybe maybe we'll maybe we'll kick it a little bit
later next week because there isn't the urgency of the
game Saturday. Maybe we'll wait till after signing day then
we can talk about portal. Because I'm sure you're going
to be scrambling next Tuesday, Burnsey, It'll.

Speaker 3 (10:21):
Be a very busy day next Tuesday. Portal opens that Monday.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
So one of your favorite wife, one of your favorite
things to say to your wife at ten thirty and night,
I have to go talk to this high school kid.
I know that's one of your favorite things to do.
And so good luck with all of that. Good luck
with all of that. It is Thanksgiving week, we have learned.
It's that's why the Gophers are going over to They're
going over to Madison on Thanksgiving because it's a Black
Friday game eleven o'clock CBS. And I know there's a

(10:48):
lot of tension, probably for a lot of our audience
and a lot of our listeners, because you've got family
coming together, maybe from all over the country, maybe from
you know, the city. It's are welcoming the country folk,
the outstate folks, the city. It's like me, and you're
worried because what happens around the holidays is families fight.
Families sometimes fight. There's some baggage and there's some disagreements,

(11:09):
and you've got some tension and some angst. And I
want to put everybody's mind at ease that I think
the best thing to do is just rip off the
band aid. Whether it's talking about the latest presidential election,
or if it's talking about a throwback pass here left
tackle on second and goal to knock off Penn State,
because families are gonna have disagreements about that and all weekend.

(11:30):
I've noticed that there's a parent of Spare podcast family
disagreement on that play, and so I think the best
thing to do right now, as I'm kind of the
mediator between my guy Randy Burns, my little brother, and
my uncle Chip, I don't I don't want this to
fester until Thanksgiving. So I want you guys to say
your peace. I want you to argue your case. I

(11:53):
know how I feel about it, but this is my house.
I'm hosting this house, and I want everything to go well.
But we gotta move on from this dis agreement here
before we can talk about the rest of the game. Chip,
I'll let you go first.

Speaker 2 (12:05):
I didn't know we were arguing. I didn't know Bernsy
didn't didn't like the call or appreciated it like the call.
I didn't like it. I thought it's too gimmicky.

Speaker 4 (12:12):
I thought it was a wasted down when you needed, uh,
you know, you need a touchdown there.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
I have a game for you, guys.

Speaker 4 (12:21):
I was thinking about this last night, and because this
is one of those games where there were a handful
of decisions by coaches that were right for second guests
and that you know, yeah, it's one of those great
games where you had a lot to chew on.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
It was an awesome game. That's what I wanted to
It was a great It was a great such a
fun game with all those crazy things.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
But it was a great college football I did. I
didn't like to throw back. I thought, uh, you know
Pj's and listen.

Speaker 4 (12:49):
I to the people that have emailed me or tweeted, yes,
I know, if it works, we're gonna say he's a genius.
I won't say he's a genius. If it worked, I
say he rolled the dice.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
And got lucky and it worked. The difference from that
trick play in the one in the.

Speaker 4 (13:02):
First half is you're actually throwing it to a guy
who's a receiver or tight end, but passing you had
your best players touch the ball at the moment of truth.
You're asking a three hundred and thirty pound tackle to
do something he's never done.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
And I don't buy for a second that.

Speaker 4 (13:19):
Penn State's gonna leave one half of the field completely
open and let a three hundred and thirty pound tackle
just walk in from the ten yard line.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
I'm not buying it. I'm not buying that at all.
I just thought he's too gimmicky.

Speaker 4 (13:31):
I would in that situation. I think it's one of
those things that you know, he's like, we can fool him.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
Up, but if it doesn't work, you're like, gosh, why
do we do that.

Speaker 4 (13:39):
We have Daniel Jackson, we have Darius Taylor, we have
Elijah Spencer, we have Jamison Gears. Let's try to get
the ball to one of our playmakers versus trying to
trick this team. And I didn't think it was one
of these David Goliath matchups, for like, holy crap, let's
you know we're so overmatched by Penn State. We got
to try to trick him and do everything. They were

(14:00):
on equal ground with Penn State that night.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
That night.

Speaker 4 (14:02):
You may not say over up, but that night I
thought they battled them hard. I didn't think they were
severely overmatched in that game.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
I thought it's two gimmicky. I didn't think he needed
to do it.

Speaker 3 (14:13):
So I think Chip, to fill you in, I think
you writing a column about it makes no sense to me. Like,
that's where you and I don't see this ide. I
don't even think that's the top five most impactful play
from that game.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
I think I think it's two.

Speaker 4 (14:31):
Okay, well, no impactful play. No, well, losing a funble,
throwing a pick that's more impactful. I'm talking about decision,
decision not play.

Speaker 3 (14:39):
It's second and goal at the nine, like, and to
give context around it, it's you know, Penn State is
one of the best red zone defenses in the country.
Their scoring, They're allowing a touchdown on thirty seven percent
of their red zone. I mean, they're they're really good.
You may now think that there was a clear mismatch.
Penn State's front seven was kicking in the teeth of
Minnesota's offensive line, especially in that second half. I mean,

(15:02):
Darius and Marcus Major had ten carries for twelve yards,
and I don't think they were missing too many holes there.
It's a tough spot to be I would say to
expect number eleven and to give context on who number
eleven is the guy who actually stayed on that side
of the field. Number eleven is going to be a
top ten overall pick. Can call it in the next

(15:23):
NFL draft he's the best speed rusher in college football,
and it's second and nine, essentially second in goal from
the nine. To expect him not to rush the passer
there when you actually do get man coverage is like
saying Jared Allen is not going to rush the passer
in when a huge spot he happens to drop Brozmor
throws it away. I think if the argument you wanted

(15:45):
make Chip, and I think it's valid, is if you
want to blast Harbo for those three plays it went
to Marcus Major, Arianta Ersrie, and Elijah Spencer, it's Darius
Taylor and Daniel Jackson didn't get the football in a
huge spot in that game. I think that's very valid.
I just think that there's so many other things from

(16:06):
that game where you are one of the best storytellers
that I've ever met. I just think like that that
just that specific play. I get that it was cute.
I get that, you know, if it works, it looks
great if it doesn't.

Speaker 1 (16:23):
But I also would say.

Speaker 3 (16:24):
Like, I think Harbo's earned a little bit from whether
it was the UCLA screen to Lamechy Brockington in a
similar spot where it's like nobody's expecting that the throwback.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
You have the Gears one in this game.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
I mean maybe you think he's been getting lucky, but
I think you had to get weird in that spot
because second and nine you do take an end zone
shot on third down dispenser and it doesn't hit.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
But like, I get it, Yeah, I I.

Speaker 4 (16:52):
To me, it's like you had a chance to win
that game, and I trust Max Brozeman throwing the ball
to Daniel Jackson.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
Or Gears or whatever.

Speaker 4 (16:59):
I just felt like that was you have this quarterback,
and yeah, their line was playing.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
When I say they weren't it was an evil.

Speaker 4 (17:07):
Even maybe not even, but I didn't feel like they
had to be like, oh my god, we're just we're
just thankful to be in this game. You know, let's
throw off the kitchen sink and try to you know,
escape this. I mean they battle Penn State like crazy.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
Yeah, I would gether Max.

Speaker 4 (17:24):
I'd rather Max Rosberg try to throw a ball to
Daniel Jackson on second down, then the left tackle.

Speaker 1 (17:29):
I mean, hindsight's always going to be twenty twenty with it.

Speaker 3 (17:31):
I just think that, Well, no, that's.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
The first guest. I mean, you said, would you rather
them throw the Daniel Jackson or But.

Speaker 3 (17:36):
Again, if the argument is they should have given Darius
Taylor or Daniel Jackson the ball or a shot on
that second down, instead, sure, yeah, absolutely, I.

Speaker 2 (17:44):
Just think, yeah, that's my argument.

Speaker 3 (17:45):
Again, you still get you still get points, and it's
a one point game. You all three timeouts in the
two minute warning, you're expecting to.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
Get the ball back. Yeah, I mean, do you want
to play for seven there?

Speaker 3 (17:56):
Yes, but I'd tell you you don't have an ursery
throwback pass. If you're playing for three, you're playing for seven.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
With that, I would play for si. Yeah, I'm going
for the touchdown.

Speaker 4 (18:06):
I'm trying to get the lead, not you know, kick
a field But I will say this, I had no
problem one hundred percent support kicking a field goal there
like that was Yeah, that's here's here's here's okay, here's
my Here's how I ranked them. And there are four
decisions that jumped out to me and I ranked them.
I'll go in order that they happened.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
And I need another beer. Yeah, little brother fighting.

Speaker 4 (18:29):
Here we go, third nine er game on yet Yeah,
third nine run? Settle for a field goal when you're
up seven.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
Nothing.

Speaker 1 (18:36):
That whole series, by the way, bother wait.

Speaker 4 (18:38):
Wait, wait, wait, wait, throw So that series throw back
to Erstree going forward on or kicking a field going
after the throwback to cut it to one, and then
the no punt safe formation. But your top No, No,
I'm just saying that they went. I'm just saying no,
that's how they went in order. If I was to
rank them, the ones that the burns in secrets of

(19:01):
the game, what annoying me the most, the no punt safe,
I would put one the throwback to the third nine
secrets where you settle for ten nothing instead of trying
to get fourteen. I had no problem with the field,
but I think that's absolutely the right decision because you
have three.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
Timeouts to two minute warning. You did what you're supposed
to do.

Speaker 4 (19:20):
The defense held him like to me, because if you don't,
if you go for a fourth to nine and don't
get it, you still need another touchdown. This way, you
kick a field you get to stop. You kick a
field goal, you win.

Speaker 2 (19:30):
So that one I thought was the correct decision.

Speaker 4 (19:34):
So I would put the way they defended the fake punt,
the throwback, and then the third nine run to I
think it was Taylor right in the first.

Speaker 3 (19:42):
Half yeah, and that's where like, uh yeah again, I'm
never gonna tell you what the right you want. Like
I said, you hear one of the best writers in Minnesota.
That's why I was surprised you didn't write about mister
Conservative himself even in that game for the last eight years,
loves to go with the with the punt safe look
and then on a fourth and one you send out
the return team. I I that one. It just leaves

(20:06):
me scratching my head. I cannot believe that PJ mister
Conservative ended up doing that. I would even as much
as it is PJ with that call, I still think
the defense isn't getting enough heat for what actually ended
up transpiring at the end of the game where Penn
State got the ball back with five point fifty left,
Minnesota had all three timeouts in the two minute warning,
and Minnesota never got the ball back right like the

(20:28):
play before, the punt's safe or the fake punt, it's
third and nine, they get a pass rush, they get
two fly bys. Your pass rush is undisciplined. It allows
Aller to beat you with his legs to make it
fourth and one, or even Jack Henderson encounters Drew Aller
and if he just makes the tackle and gets through him,
it's fourth and five. Very different situation. I think Penn

(20:50):
State ends up punting it. And then there's a couple
other plays on that drive where Penn State ends up
converting three different fourth downs, but it's a second and
eight or a second and nine or a third nine
or al or with his legs extends the play to
where if your defense and your front seven can just
get him on the ground, like before the second fourth
and goal, excuse me, fourth down conversion justin Wally comes

(21:14):
on a corner, Blitz doesn't get him, but if he
gets him at the forty yard line, guess what. Drew
Aller ends up scrambling to the twenty five on that play.
That's a fifteen yard discrepancy. So I just I understand
the angst about the left tackle play. I just think
the defense not being able to do anything is something

(21:36):
to where I mean, that's what I'm looking at, plus
PJ and all the situations in the entire world. Not
going punt safe there is mind boggling.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
And well just not. It looked like they were completely
surprised that they were going to fake the punt, which
shouldn't surprise you, right because in but yeah, the third
and nine was a killer. It was just a killer
because that puts that on the table. Correct, If you
get the quarterback down, you get the ball back, and
everything else is you know, And the funny thing is, too,
I don't Koy parrits. You may think Koy Parritch is

(22:07):
gonna return. He didn't have a return all night unless
I'm forgetting one because Penn State's punter was pretty good
with hangtime and there were always a couple of guys
down there. So I mean, you got to kind of
remember how the game was going, like, you're not gonna
get necessarily a return from Koy, which I'm sure is
what you're looking for in that situation. My view on
the By the way, I loved Chips Twitter on Saturday,

(22:29):
first full just a throwback to the left tackle? What
in the world say? And then a little bit later,
I still cannot believe Flex signed off on a throwback
pass who's left tackle on second ago from the eight
with a chance to upset Penn State within grass There
was just no justifying that call. I'm I'm kind of
in the middle of you too, Like I usually I
didn't have a problem with it. I like people calling

(22:51):
it indefensible and ridiculous. I think are overreacting quite frankly.
To me, the key is it was second down, it
was worth trying something. I'm on burnsy side like, and
I said this throughout the broadcast, I've never seen it's
very rarely. So this is a year fourteen. I've very
rarely seen a defensive line be as disruptive as that

(23:11):
one was on Friday, where like, within two seconds of
Max Brosmer getting the ball, he's got to decide to
do something like there weren't a lot of opportunities to
take deep shots even in the first half when he
was placing the ball over a couple of Penn State
defenders over the middle of Daniel Jackson or Elijah Spencer.
Like everybody's hanging on for dear life. I mean, Jordan
Nuban's in there hanging on. They've got tight ends hanging on,

(23:33):
They've got a bunch of people in coverage, and Max
has got to put these dying throws still under duress
even though everybody's hanging on. I just I don't think
they wanted to take their chances in the third in
the red zone, where Penn State has Burnssey wrote all
week is very very good. I think they felt like
they needed to get a little crazy. Was it probably
a little too crazy? Yeah? Probably a throwback to the

(23:54):
left tackle is typically reserved for the Guaranteed Rate Bull
or the Duke's Male Bowl. It's not typically reserved for that,
so I understand that. But the fact that it was
second down, you had another opportunity and you end up
getting points, and then you should have ended up getting
the stop, which is something we just talked about it.
I didn't think it was the crime of the century
like some people thought, because the other thing is too

(24:15):
We've been begging for eight years to be unconventional and
not be crazy, and even earlier in that game they
were I thought a little bit too conventional by not
wanting to take the sack on third and nine, which
again I understand, But then let's do something different on
first down. Because you actually are moving the ball, you're
not gonna get it to the thirty. Very often against
Penn State, take advantage of those opportunities. I loved it.

(24:38):
After the black punt, they were aggressive. But funniest is
PJ always talks about leaving no time and that's why
he does all this stuff. At the end of the
first half, they score on one play, there's a minute
left and Penn State comes down and scores. He's probably thinking,
that's why I do this, But that again goes back
to the defense. I just it didn't. It didn't bother
me as much because it wasn't a turnover, it wasn't
something cataclysmic. It was a play that didn't work, and

(24:59):
now it's third down.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
The thing that bothered me was.

Speaker 4 (25:04):
It felt like a wasted down at a time where
you couldn't waste it down. And I just I I again,
the first one, you're throwing to a guy who's used
to catching the ball and making moves, and you're you're
asking a guy who's never done that in a game
to do it against Penn State.

Speaker 2 (25:20):
I just moment.

Speaker 1 (25:23):
We just never even got to see it though, because
the Penn State guy blew it up. You know, we
have no idea what our anti ursery looks like. He
never had a chance to catch it. Really, because that
guy was there. Do I think he was gonna high
step into the end zone to do the Heisman pose?
I wouldn't bet on it, but the play just got
blown up. It got blown up. It's not like he
tripped over himself like Mark Crawford or You're gone, Kassick.

Speaker 4 (25:43):
I just you know, you yeah, and you can say
it's it's highsight, but to me, it's just like.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
You know, you have a quarterback you trust, and yes,
they're they're their line is great and the ball has
to come out quick.

Speaker 4 (25:55):
But I trust Max Brozer and Daniel Jacks to make
plays the way Elijah Spencer can make plays. I trust him.
Darius Taylor, I trust dumping the ball off to him.
Maybe not handing the ball off to him. It was
such a weird game running Like there were times early
hours like man, they're running ball pretty good and then
they would.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
Lose, have five straight negative runs. So it was a
weird run night. But dump the ball off to him,
you know, something creative with him. I just in that situation.

Speaker 4 (26:24):
When you got Penn State on the ropes and you
got a chance to knock them out, I just.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
I would rather go with the guys who I trust.
That that's that's I just. I just I didn't lose
sleep over. I slept find but it just kind of
you know, I'm not saying I've been, you.

Speaker 4 (26:44):
Know, tossing to turn and sincerity night, but I just
in that situation, I thought I thought it was too gimmicky.
I didn't think that they had to be that gimmicky.
They you know, you could say they were overmatched up front.
I still think you know, you had a chance there
to you know, get the ball to one of your playmakers.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
Anything else, Burnsy, this is where we go. We'll agree
to disagree, and I think the parades on ye, they
take me da parade. Let's see if what al Roker
is up to.

Speaker 3 (27:13):
H I think the only of the things I'll add
just on that game is that you mentioned that final
Penn State drive before the end of the first half,
just absolutely killer, where they go seventy five yards and
I think forty four seconds it's for a touchdown. Just
you can't you have to bend and not break there.
I understand that there was an egregious pass interference call,

(27:34):
but you can't break the way you did there. You
had to at least hold them to three. You weren't
able to do that. But I also just think if
you would have told me coming into that game that
Minnesota scores twenty three offensive points like they Penn State
had allowed sixteen total points the last two games combined,
Ohio State only scored twenty, right, and you put up

(27:56):
twenty three. And it's it's not just one thing from
that game because I think in spirts, the offense played well,
the defense played well, special teams played well. The coaching
I think was well, It was good at times, but
then there's like ten to fifteen percent of offense, ten
to fifteen percent of defense, special teams, PJ, whatever it

(28:17):
may be, and it's frustrating, I'm sure for many people
because I'd say Minnesota played at like an eighty percent
level on Saturday night. Well, guess what you needed to
be eighty five to be able to beat the number.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
Fourteen in the country.

Speaker 3 (28:30):
And even James Franklin, I'll say this, we haven't talked
about James Franklin deciding after Minnesota scores there that you
know what my team is on the CUSP with the
College Football Playoff.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
I am going to.

Speaker 3 (28:41):
Be the one that makes the decisions when good or bad,
to get my team there or take them out of it.
And I think not enough as being talked about with
James Franklin deciding multiple times we're playing to win and
not giving Minnesota a chance at home.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
Before you go to if James Franklin makes the decision,
by the way, he's oh god, Steinbaum's talking about him
and he ends up on first take like, yeah, I
didn't see Mike Greenberg breaking down pj's call here, right,
I mean, this is State, it's James Franklin. Like there's
an extra pressure on James Franklin with these decisions. So
credit to him. But go ahead, you talk about the

(29:17):
guts to call that.

Speaker 4 (29:18):
I mean, it's fourth and one, But to call that
in that situation if it doesn't work and you lose
and you're.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
Out of the playoffs, holy cow, you talk about heat on.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
A coach straight times there.

Speaker 4 (29:31):
I gotta be honest with you, and people disagree with
me on this. I would have kicked the field goal
and say that fourth that last fourth and one, Yeah,
because around time actually gotta make him drive the link
to the field. But he trusted his players, man, And
you know, even if they don't get it, they still
but with with Dragon's leg.

Speaker 2 (29:49):
They don't have to go that far to get it,
you know, in range.

Speaker 4 (29:52):
But yeah, you go back to uh, Gophers, Like, you know,
Max Brozner just dropping the ball where he can pitch it.

Speaker 3 (30:00):
I mean that's the first his first interception in two
hundred and six passed attempts, which was a long streak,
or even just his first turnovers since September in general,
and he just drops the football and.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
Yeah, well it's you know it just like we talked
about the defense. It's like there was that one series.

Speaker 5 (30:19):
Where you know, I thought their quarterback was just gonna
absolutely lose his mind, like he was having all he
would not was, but yet he was having an absolute
meltdown as he went to and then they came back
and they went tempo right and they started getting it.
They had three straight passes to their tied end Warren,
and and it's almost like they that settled him down.

(30:44):
I love the way there are things that you love
the way the Gophers played in that game, but then
there were just there were just these last half a
dozen things, whether it's a drop, was dropping the ball,
or running on three and nine, or the throwback or
or you know not, it's just like Penn State's good enough.

(31:04):
I don't think they're in Ohio State or Oregon's category,
but they're good enough that you can't have.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
Those kind of mistakes and think that you're gonna be
able to knock off you know them.

Speaker 4 (31:14):
So it was mean, but it was a great It
was a you know, it was a great college football game,
a lot of a lot of I love it when
you have a game where there's a lot to chew
on and oh yeah, you can talk about it.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
For days, like if they had done this, they had
done that, this coach did.

Speaker 3 (31:26):
That, something like this whole season for Minnesota, which I
would also say, I think Penn State's defense is good
enough to win a college football playoff game. I think
their offense is why they're gonna get bounced too.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
I just the quarterbacks two inconsistent and.

Speaker 3 (31:39):
Well you have Tyler Warren and the backs are good,
but your receivers are just I don't think they're gonna
be good enough to win a college football playoff game.
But I think also within this fan base, because of
how this season has been. They're three and four and
one possession games and seemingly every game for the last
two months has been one possession, fourth quarter could go anywhere,

(32:00):
and it's now come up tails instead of heads. The
last couple of games. I think it's a very emotionally
exhausted fan base, and I want to.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
Bring that up. This is on my list. I think
we saw I think it was reflected in the attendance too.

Speaker 4 (32:15):
And I'll start by saying this is like, I'm never
going to criticize people who not going because we get
into the games free and we sit in the warm presss.

Speaker 1 (32:22):
Not all of you, not all of us, not all
of you. It's almost freezing our ass off on the field.
But although it wasn't that cold. I'll get to that
in a minute.

Speaker 4 (32:29):
Yeah, I was surprised by the empty seats. I think
the Rutgers loss took a lot of the windown of
the sales of this fan base. You got the number
four team coming in. It was cold, but it was
what forty degrees.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
It wasn't like bitterly.

Speaker 4 (32:42):
Cold where you're like, this is dangerous. And there was
probably ten thousand empty seats there.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
I was surprised by it.

Speaker 1 (32:50):
You know what we heard consistently on Friday and Saturday,
Grim and I were talking about it. More people were
concerned about the cold than you would have thought, like really, Yeah,
And I don't know if it's because we've been living
right here and it's been fifties basically for like two months,
and we've had like one little snowfall. And I know
we had some snow last week because Grimmer was asking people,

(33:12):
you know, he has some tickets and he'll his family
will use him or he'll get him away or whatever,
and he said multiple people are like, it's too cold,
and Grim's like it's thirty five degrees and there's no
wind and like, so there was that was something we
heard consistently through the week. Yes, if you're a ranked
team and you're you know, seven and three as opposed
to six and four, there's probably a different vibe because

(33:34):
I do think that would have made a difference just
in general interest. But the weather for some reason kept
people away too. Now, if both teams are in the
top ten, nobody cares that it's cold, right, So but
it was a it was I agree with you because
I know they sold a lot of tickets, I mean,
which is also surprising, like usually nowadays when people buy tickets,
they go, I know a lot of tickets were sold,

(33:54):
and they were you know, I think, pretty close to
a relative sellout there. But for whatever the reason some
people sided last minute not to check it out.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
It was it was.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
I mean it was noticeably big, you know, it was.
I would say that the tennis to me was noticeable
when I looked out and saw the stands.

Speaker 3 (34:14):
I mean it was just not everything, but the student section,
for whatever reason, the student section was absolutely incredible every
single game.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
Yeah. I was just if I'm Mark Cole and him,
I'm wondering, like, you know, what happened here?

Speaker 4 (34:26):
Because yeah, maybe it is the Rutgers loss too, Maybe
it was the cold. Maybe the Rutgers loss, you know,
took the win down. This the fan base of sales,
I don't know, but if I if I'm the administration,
I'm like, hmm, you know, this is the number four
team in the country and we don't come close to
selling out a fifty thousand seat or having fifty thousand
people in the in the stadium.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
Anything else we want to talk about quickly before we
talk about Jack's Cafe, anything else on this game that
we can come on the other side with Bernsey that
you want to tease.

Speaker 3 (34:57):
Uh. I think the only thing I would add is
you look at the attendance certainly, and I think Dan
Owen actually from my folks here at co f Rolster
looked into the full attendance for the last fifteen years.
I know it's been sixteen, but you can't count Covid
because you know what, he was there. This season ended
up attendance wise for what they announced eighth out of

(35:18):
fifteen years. Now, the discrepancy between eighth and say third
is about eight thousand tickets, so it's not a very
big difference, but it is worth talking that. I think
that Rutgers game, for whatever the reason with how it
ended with people not thinking Rutgers is very good.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
I think it did. I think you did see a
lot of it play it out after the bye week. Yeah,
I think that's probably fair. Crowds were good all year.
It just from my perspective, with the energy and the environment,
there's such a noticeable difference from when I first started
doing this, and we've talked about it a million times,
but they do have a hold of on the football side,
younger people that are inspired to go to the games

(36:00):
there it's home or road, and so if they can
have another season like they did back in nineteen or
even in fourteen when they went to the Citrus Bowl,
which they were kind of on track to do if
they had knocked off Rutgers. And we'll see what happens
against Wisconsin. That can capture a lot more people. But
I think the tailgating is as good as it's ever been,
you know, certainly in a lot thirty seven in the sky,
you malat, don't bring your kids. I think the tailgating

(36:21):
is as good as ever been. The travel is as
good as it's ever been, and just from my perspective,
on the sidelines, like the home side is always pretty full,
it's that visitor side that you don't really know, you know.
I think there's a lot of corporate tickets over there
and some partner tickets over there, and just not as
many season tickets over there, even though that's the sunny
side during you know, the fall, in the winter if
you want to stay warm. But the vibe was good,

(36:42):
and you know, the students have been great since COVID. Yeah,
I don't know if it's because they missed out on
all of it and some of those seniors when they
came back were twenty nineteen freshmen and remember what it
was and have made it a thing. So but yeah,
they've still they've still got work to do there to
make it a consistent thing where we're not talking about
it as much. But all told, I think it was

(37:03):
a pretty solid year that way. Anything else before we
talk about Jacks, we're good productive discussion. I hope that
could be a template for families all over, families across Minnesota,
fam families across Minnesota and the country on how to
civilly talk about something that you fundamentally disagree with. I
think that's a good template. And now we move forward
and past the stuffing. You know who has stuffing. I'm

(37:25):
assuming Jack's Cafe Jaxcafe dot com to make your holiday reservations.
Don't forget Breakfast with Santa starts this Saturday, well next Saturday,
Saturday after Thanksgiving December seventh, fourteenth, and twenty First Jackscafe
dot com to take a look at the openings there.
They've got seating times between nine and eleven. Then they've
got some great dinners coming up that you can check out.

(37:46):
It's all there at the Jacks Holiday Happenings section on
jackscafe dot com. They will have lunch on Christmas Eve.
They're open for dinner on New Year's Eve. They've got
a champagne buffet, brunch on New Year's Day. They've got
something for everybody, you guys. But this breakfast was Santa
is always a fun tradition.

Speaker 4 (38:04):
Yeah, I think if you have kids, sign them up
for that. But I was thinking about this the other day,
is like, wouldn't that be a cool place to have
like an.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
Office holiday party?

Speaker 4 (38:12):
Yes, absolutely, call up Bill, you know, reserv room upstairs,
reserve you know area.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
Because they had so many areas in here.

Speaker 4 (38:19):
If you're Bill gave us a tour their first time
we went there, is like they got all these little
nooks and crannies and.

Speaker 1 (38:23):
Cool place they do.

Speaker 2 (38:24):
If you have an office party, what a cool place
that would be the have it right there. So called.

Speaker 4 (38:29):
If you're thinking about, you know, where should we host
an office party or gathering, that's Jackson's a perfect perfect
spot and called Bill.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
He'll hook you up.

Speaker 3 (38:37):
Yeah, breakfast with Santa. Holiday parties. I'll say from my end,
maybe you're thinking about going out to a little Christmas dinner,
a little anniversary, whatever it may be. We've seen plenty
of our listeners do so the hill I have died
on all season, and I've gotten a little bit of
guff for it. It's the best steak in town to me,
and I don't say that lightly as someone who consumes
copious amounts of red meat in my life. I think

(38:59):
that's is absolutely fantastic. And then Chip mister dessert himself over.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
There, Kriberlay Greblay Baby the best in town.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
And me, mister nostalgia. As you can see behind me
with all of my old artifacts here, I'm just a
sucker for the old men. He's on the wall and
the match books for your reservation name, so everything is
first class at Jack's Cafe. Breakfast was saying to December seventh, fourteenth,
and twenty first, and by the way, a final thank you.
We didn't even really realize this when we signed up
with Jack's Cafe a couple of years ago and joined

(39:29):
this partnership the parent of Spare podcast. We became season
ticket holders to go for football, apparently because we get
tickets every game, including the Penn State game, and we
appreciate bill every week, just all of a sudden, I'd
get a text would just say Jack's Cafe sending you
their tickets, and we could give them to listeners, and
so many people made memories this year which is awesome.
So it was always fun to see your pictures. For

(39:50):
those of you that went to the game, really cool
seats in that open end zone, easy to get to,
which is great, especially if you have kids, and then
you can jump around back there on the plaza when
they're completely bored and just looking for Goldie. But we
appreciate Bill taking care of us, and we appreciate all
of you taking care of Bill and Jack's Cafe, and
hope you have a great holiday season at Jack's. Make
your reservations at Jackscafe dot com. Well, preview Wisconsin here

(40:15):
in a couple of minutes, and breaking news apparent is fair.
We are all boots on the ground in Madison, which
is awesome. I'm very excited about that. So we will
see everybody there on Friday. Maybe we'll take a Camp
Randall picture. It'll be like the tenth Camp Randall picture
Chip has taken because he sent half his family there
and you know, basically has a wing named after him
at the Barry Alvarez Field. But some of us don't

(40:36):
have as many pictures, so we'll do that. But Indiana,
Ohio State, I did not get to see much of
this at all. Burnsy's. You know, I'm out on Oak
Street where you come and see me for the pregame show.
I know, I'm sure it was on the TVs in
the press box and Indiana hung for a little while
until they didn't. So what happened in that game before
we talk about the bigger ramifications?

Speaker 3 (40:56):
Yeah, hot, start where Indiana scores. I believe on their
opening drive they get us stop defensively, they're up seven
to nothing. You're thinking yourself, can they actually do this?
And then Ohio State runs off thirty straight points and
a late touchdown for Signetti makes it thirty eight to fifteen,
which with the way that college football ended up going,
and I'm sure we'll get to it. It's not the

(41:16):
worst case scenario for me for Indiana, but losing by
twenty three chip isn't exactly going to inspire I think
the committee, well.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
It's funny that last scoring drive. It was like methodical.

Speaker 4 (41:29):
They were not in a hurry, so it was like,
let's score make it look a little more respectable, and
nat Ohio State comes right back in scores twenty seconds left,
like no, we're not playing that game. They found out
that Ohio State's in a different class obviously when you're
playing there.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
That's a tough place to play.

Speaker 4 (41:45):
They got a lot of help after that loss with
what happened around college football.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
You know, we'll miss and.

Speaker 3 (41:54):
Your team Oklahoma. Oklahoma had not won a game against
an FBS opponent since September. They're two underdogs at a
home crazy and then when twenty four to three over
Bama to put Bama three losses, Ole Miss loses to
now suddenly a red hot Florida to put all this
to three losses. You know who the big winner from
last weekend was chip Rocky Top.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
Yeah. Yeah, we benefited for sure.

Speaker 4 (42:20):
So I'll be curious to see the rankings came out
last night, Right, they'll come out tonight.

Speaker 1 (42:27):
They come outta this on a Tuesday. They come out
here yet night.

Speaker 4 (42:30):
I'm curious to see what the committee thinks about Indiana
and how they how they frame that loss.

Speaker 3 (42:35):
I will be upset if you put in say a
three loss Bama.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
Yeah over no, chick, No, you won't do that, uh
not from the Big Ten. Even though Indiana schedules easy.
But I mean I was just looking at earlier, like
look at Notre Dame schedule, you know, right, I mean.

Speaker 3 (42:56):
So, which how flexing does that Northern Illinois lost. Look
now that NIU is about a five hundred MAC team.
I watched them lose to Miami on Thursday night or
Wednesday night or whenever it was Wednesday night to you,
maction baby, Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
That's right. So you know, I saw Burday. It was
at a halftime, I told you I was, or maybe after.

Speaker 4 (43:16):
It's like, gosh, I just don't know if Penn State
is one of the twelve best teams in the country.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
But you're right, He's like, well, look at everybody else.
They probably are.

Speaker 3 (43:22):
You know, I think there's a difference between the twelve
best teams in the country and who can actually win
the college.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
Football and the four best, two or three four best.

Speaker 3 (43:31):
Yeah, because you think about, like, what when the rankings
dropped tonight, you're gonna have Oregon or even Texas. Okay,
Texas is probably gonna be the number two or three
seed Texas. I saw the graphic yesterday. You Mass has
played two SEC teams. Texas has played so far every
game on their schedule. You Mass has played more SEC

(43:53):
teams more than above five hundred record than Texass. Texas'
best win right now is Vanderbilt. Yeah, so what happens
this weekend? Chip if Texas loses the A and M
who also lost, Yeah, because Texas is best win. I mean,
God bless Vanderbilt and for what they've done and your
guards hes guy, Jerry Kill this season, Like, what.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
Do you do with Texas?

Speaker 3 (44:16):
I mean they probably make it absolutely, I'm not disagreeing,
but them is the top.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
Four seed with that schedule? Are you kidding me? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (44:23):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (44:23):
I mean you know, you start looking at who these
teams have played, and I don't know if they're looking
at eye test or strength to schedule or what, but
I think a lot of you know, of the twelve teams,
probably ten of them have warts, like you don't really
know how good they are, right or a bad loss.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
Or or a confusing loss or you know.

Speaker 4 (44:48):
I look at Penn State and they got a lot
of talent, obviously, but they're not just steamrolling teams off
the field.

Speaker 3 (44:57):
The only scene that looks like they have the least
amount of warts is Oregon. And we're still talking about
an Oregon team that was trailing, I believe going into
the fourth quarter against Wisconsin before the Bible early.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
Yeah, and early on they did it look great correct season.
Now that's early a season. You want to see a
team get better as you and I think they've done that.
I think Ohio State is really good. I do think
they're really good.

Speaker 3 (45:17):
I think the top two teams in the Big ten,
and I think there's a many tier droper Ohio State
and Oregon, and then I take many tear dropped to
Penn State in Indiana.

Speaker 4 (45:24):
Yeah, and then I think there's four tiers. I mean
I think those top two than the next two and.

Speaker 1 (45:29):
Then five through seventeen and then produced nineteenth place.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (45:33):
Yeah, I'd throw Northwestern in there too.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
I was going to say fourteen, and then I think
the bottom two or Northwestern.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
Yeah, and Maryland has completely gone pair shape too. But yeah,
it's yeah, I hope I said it last week. It's
a worst case scenario because Indiana has opened the door
for something crazy to happen, right, Yeah, I don't think
it will. I think if you look at the the
All State Playoff predictor on ESPN dot com, they're still
in you know, I just had it up. They're still
in like a really good spot, and they've got Purdue

(46:01):
this weekend, and the danger was when you if you
got blown out, you don't really have a lot of
opportunity to make anything up because no one's going to
give you credit for Purdue. So but they opened the
door for something weird to happen because of how non
competitive that was once Ohio State got their teeth into
the game. I still think it's not and it's not
their fault who they played, and they pretty much boat

(46:22):
raced everybody except Michigan, right. I mean, it wasn't like
they were, you know, grinding it out every single game
trying to hold on against these non these teams. They
were routing teams consistently. I think I just have a
hard time thinking that they're going to get left out
of this thing.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
That's the way I look at it.

Speaker 4 (46:38):
If they go eleven to one and they were impressive
for all but one game, well a lot of teams
are going to get beat.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
Pretty bad at the shoot.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
Yeah, yepeah.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
That shouldn't be.

Speaker 4 (46:52):
That one game should not override the other eleven and say, well,
this is not a playoff team.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
We're gonna put a three loss SEC team in there.
I just I don't think that's gonna happen.

Speaker 1 (47:03):
But especially if, like Notre Dame is just going to
get the fifth seed after losing the Northern Illinois and
I know they've tooke better exactly right now. I would
be surprised USC could knock them off this weekend, you
know what I mean, just how weird this stuff is,
you know, quarterback change like what I bet on it?
Probably not, but yeah, nothing would surprise me.

Speaker 3 (47:22):
Eight through eleven is going to be so fascinating to
see what they end up doing because you've got now
suddenly a red hot Arizona State team because both BYU
and Colorado lost. I don't know if you've seen the
tiebreaker scenarios, but I think there's six different Big twelve
teams that could somehow come away, yeah, get to get
in the conferenceation. Thought about bringing that up, but I

(47:43):
got so infused reading it, I said, this is not
a nuts and bolts podcast like that.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
We need to talk for surface level. Ye Birds, he
can handle that on Gopher grid Iron.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
Radio with you can break that down on the hard game.

Speaker 1 (47:55):
Yeah, yeah, Luke Fewer can handle that one. Luke Fewer
can handle that one with there there's just so many
different nuances to this thing. Where it's.

Speaker 3 (48:02):
I mean, I'm looking at even Nicole Auerbach's you know,
college football playoff picks heading in into night and eight
through eleven, You've got Georgia, Tennessee, Indiana SMU and she
left out Alabama, Clemson, South Carolina in Iowa State.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
And it's just there's so.

Speaker 3 (48:17):
Many different ways that this thing can go yet, and
while it's gonna be who gets in, I still think
there's probably only a couple of teams that can end
up winning it. But as we've seen this season, no
team is clearly like a Georgia Orbama from yesteryear because
of the way it's all worked out.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
Yeah no, I don't. I don't.

Speaker 4 (48:37):
I don't know that it's wide open. But I also
don't think from what we see in college football. If
you know, team number nine got hot and want to
complain to you and be like, oh God, where.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
Did this come from?

Speaker 4 (48:50):
You know, I'm just saying college footballs is changed. I mean,
it felt like it's just changed overnight. It's probably being
too dramatic.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
But well, it's the parody we've all been asking for.

Speaker 3 (48:59):
It's I even saw the argument I love you that
Indiana Ohio State game last week of Well, if Indiana
gets blown out, this is why you know we shouldn't
they shouldn't be in the playoff. And it's like, okay,
well Oklahoma was a two touchdown home underdog and they
just absolutely obliterated Caleb de Bores team by eighteen points.
And that was a two touchdown spread. That's why in

(49:20):
twenty twenty four we play the freaking football games and
not on paper like even the Gopher game. I mean
that was a two touchdown spread. It ended up at
twelve and a half or thirteen points. Minnesota ends up
losing by one and probably had a pretty dang good chance.
I think we can all agree to steal that game.
So it's just I'm so tired of the hypotheticals with

(49:41):
this thing. At the end of the day, you have
to look at what the records are, and yeah, who
they've played matters. But I don't want to be on
that committee. I'll tell you that much. Eight through eleven,
there's going to be a lot of angst about those
different decisions.

Speaker 4 (49:55):
Well, this is why going to twelve is such a
great thing for college football, because we're all talking about
it across the like this team, that team, compared the resumes.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
When it was just four, there was so much more cutting.

Speaker 4 (50:05):
Right now we might complain about five or six, but
now you have so many other teams you're like, yeah,
you know, and you throw into what the portal's done
for well evening out the sport. I mean, I look
at the big ten and you know, I was thinking
about this. I'm gonna be writing about this for my
you know, my call this week is.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
Like and we've talked about last couple of weeks. It's
like trying to make sense of how you're going to
make that jump or have that I think so much
of it now is going to be. Man, you've got
to you've got to maximize fifty to fifty games.

Speaker 1 (50:43):
Yeah, and it and.

Speaker 4 (50:45):
Maybe Penn State wasn't fifty to fifty obviously because they
were a big, you know, favorite from in here, but.

Speaker 2 (50:53):
I know special years.

Speaker 4 (50:54):
You got to find a way to win that game,
you know, And that's how you pop up.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
And win nine or ten games.

Speaker 4 (50:58):
And it's just going to be whichever team gets a
good schedule and just figures out a way to win
those games, those those fifty to fifty or close games.
PJ you know, he's has been a talking point three
and four and one score games. Now I could argue
UCLA could have just as easily gone the other way.
So in the usc As usc as, we're talking about these.

(51:19):
But it's like the seasons where you've had the twenty
nineteen kind of magical seasons, the are gonna be the
season that you find a way to win a pretty
big percentage.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
Of those, And I think there's going to it's the
same formula as it's always been. When you had the
last right, it was about the fifty to fifty games
against your rivals and then your crossovers. Was that was
the schedule. Now just feels like there's way more fifty
to fifty games. It just feels nine of them, Yeah
of them, where there used to be like five ish.
Maybe maybe I'll go back. Maybe that's an offseason project

(51:50):
for Daniel House now he likes diving into the data.
But it felt like, yeah, there were a handful, and
now it feels like, I mean, the last two months
have a centally been that right, even going back to
you know, the Michigan game, you know that ended up
being a coin flip, which you wouldn't have anticipated at
the beginning. And you melt it down in the first
half and gave yourself no margin for air, and then

(52:12):
you end up losing that game. But basically from that
point on, it's been four games into the fourth quarter
or games into the second half. I mean you mentioned
it Burns. He had the emotional toll of just which
has made it fun. Like it feels like such a
more fun season just to have watched and covered. And
they're six and five, you know what I mean, There's
just been like so many things that have happened. It

(52:34):
feels like when I think of six and five, I
think of like boring, you're muddling through it. It's like, no,
they've had an unbelievable couple moments. They've had some unbelievably
tough losses. The swings have been crazy. I just feel like, yeah,
you're right, Chipper. It's the you gotta have the right schedule,
you got to have the right teams at home, probably,
and when it comes to those top top teams, the

(52:56):
little four or five team tier, and then you have
to somehow find a way to win the majority of
those coin flip games. And so it just feels like
every week, I mean, I haven't pulled up the standings.
But I looked at it yesterday. How many teams are
six and five or five and six, everybody at nine, eight, nine, ten,
And that's crazy. And so we'll see. Because Dan Barrero

(53:17):
was talking to me about it yesterday. He says, because
PJ says we're a good team, you just have to
do it. And Dan's point was, well, you haven't done
it enough. I said, yeah, to have the speciality, you haven't.
But there's also ten teams that are saying the exact
same thing. Like that's the craziest part is like, think
how Rutgers feels right now. I mean, how Rutgers made
a mess of that Illinois game. Like Illinois has manufactured

(53:40):
a good eight and three record, they're still pissed about
the Minnesota game because that, to them, that should have
been a winnable one, that where the Gophers played well
the whole game, and you know, I know there was
some doubt at times, but the Gophers pretty much handled
them and they could be in the playoff conversation if
not for that game. Would I pick them? Probably not,
but they'd be in the conversation least if they finished

(54:01):
strong with two losses and so there's ten teams that
are kicking themselves about two or three games, but also
probably have to have the self awareness that we stole
a couple two and you just gotta you have to
find a way every couple of years to keep people
interested in what you're doing, to bounce breakthrough and get
to that nine or ten win threshold.

Speaker 3 (54:23):
And that's where Indiana is. The is the beneficiary of
a very soft schedule, and they kudos to Kirk Signetty
got his transfer laden team ready. But then you have
the other flips side of the coin, which to your
point is Rutgers, where Rutgers had a Sharman soft schedule. Yeah,
and now they're sitting there at six and five, and
I'm glad you brought up the other teams where there

(54:43):
is a slog in this second, third, fourth, whatever you
want to call a tier of I know every every
Gopher fan listening is exhausted from this kicking themselves. But
like you look at look at the rest of the
Big ten. You don't think Washington or Michigan or Nebrass, Rutgers,
whoever it may be, where you're off five and six,
six and five, and you're like, well, you know what

(55:06):
could have been. Like, I just think that so much
of this doesn't have to be. If we're not competing
for the college football Playoff, you know, it's a failure.
And I feel like we're getting more takes that are like,
if you're not, it's like Ricky Bobby, if you're not first,
your last. Yeah, it's like you can again preseason expectations

(55:27):
versus reality versus how the eleven games have played out.
I get it, but there's just so much to it
where you're not just the only fan base. There's eight
other fan bases in the Big ten, all around seven
and five to five and seven, where they're like, well,
you know, it is what it is.

Speaker 4 (55:43):
Yeah, it's it's interesting because it's it's perspective, right. You
don't think about other fans, but you think about your team,
and you think about what you know.

Speaker 2 (55:51):
You don't care about what Maryland or Rocker you know.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
But I I, you know, like this game, this last game,
good transition.

Speaker 2 (55:59):
I just think in terms of perception, huge they win
this game.

Speaker 4 (56:02):
You're not going to say this is a great, wonderful season.
But to me, the difference between seven and five and
six and six is enormous I agree with you in perception,
because if they lose this game and you go six
and six, when you only play one of the top
four teams in the Big Ten and you will have
been one in seven in the last two novembers, that

(56:27):
that perception wise, that's hard to swallow, even in the
Big Ten, and craziness and everybody's similar, you know, footing
a lot of you know, except for the top teams.
I just think if they don't win this game, it's
going to be a sour taste.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
On this season.

Speaker 1 (56:44):
Yeah, I agree to me. Last season has nothing to
do with it. I wouldn't put the two novembers in.
I would just say because it's totally different teams six
and two to six and six with two coin flips
in there, Rutgers and obviously Wisconsin, which I think is
still like a two point spread. I agree, that would
be a disappointing way to end it. But it's because
you had built it up to a good spot where

(57:05):
you beat a team that's at ranks right now, Illinois,
you beat a team that was ranked at the time
USC like you had all that positivity and to have
it go like that, even though it wasn't like last
November where the wheels just completely came off. But to
lose those games and then to lose to your rival
who's reeling, by the way, even though it was not
very good right now. They hung with Oregon a couple
of weeks ago, it was an awesome game, and then

(57:27):
kind of got run out of Lincoln. It looked like
I didn't see a ton of that one, but it
didn't look like they were super competitive. Seven and five
looks different than six and six in this Big ten too,
with how it's going like there's gonna be a big
group at six and six. Probably I don't think the
same can be said about seven and five.

Speaker 4 (57:42):
Well, and I look at this too, and maybe I'm wrong.
You have your best passing quarterbacks since Adam Weber. I
think I think this team has some pretty high end talent.
When you talk about guys, if you're gonna go play
in the NFL, you have left tackle that's going to
be a first round pick or a high pick. I
think Lenniburg's gonna be an NFL player. While he's gonna

(58:02):
be a NFL player, John Joyners is going to be
an NFL player. You know you got one of the
best running backs in the Big Ten. You got one
of the best wide receivers.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
Uh, you know in a Big Ten.

Speaker 3 (58:14):
This team has talent, right, you have been able to
put it together.

Speaker 4 (58:18):
If you tell me they finished six and six with
this talent, I'm sorry that it's going to be a disappointment.

Speaker 1 (58:22):
Yeah, I think it would be a buzzkill to lose
your last four And there's no arguing in that. And
but in all in handling Wisconsin, there's always an you
get extra credit for that one. A little bit like
that can just kind of save.

Speaker 3 (58:32):
And it's even with Wisconsin losing four straight, they are
now a I see a three point favorite on DraftKings. Interesting,
which Wisconsin has played much better at home than they
have on the road, especially here in the last six weeks.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
Their defense is pretty salty.

Speaker 3 (58:50):
Still it looks like, I mean, they took Oregon down
to the wire at home, they took Penn State, they
were leading at halftime against Penn State, and then they've
kind of faltered. It's Brandon Locke and it's for me,
it's two things. It's Braiden Locke, who Minnesota this season
is six and oh when they have forced multiple takeaways.
They have seventeen takeaways in their wins and their five

(59:11):
losses they have three. They need multiple takeaways against Braiden Locke.
And then I've said it all year and I'm gonna
die on the hill again. The offensive line, it's going
to be twenty degrees. It's going to be a little
windy like this.

Speaker 1 (59:25):
You have to guards.

Speaker 3 (59:29):
Like you have to come to play, Like, I don't
understand how you have your best left tackle of probably
my lifetime in a Gopher uniform. You have Quinn Carroll,
who I think has a shot to make a fifty
three man roster. Tyler Cooper just accepted an invite to
the Shrine Bowl. You have talent, yet they have not
put it together. Like, I don't understand how this continues

(59:53):
to happen.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
You guys know it. I know it, our listeners know it.

Speaker 3 (59:56):
In a late November game, it's gonna be one and loss,
like every single Acts game is in the trenches. Yeah,
we've seen it, flip sides of the coin both ways.
There's no Braileen Allen over there. Minnesota can't run ball
consistently like they need to play this offensive line their
best game if they're going to go into Madison and
come away with the acts, do like.

Speaker 4 (01:00:15):
You did that first drive Saturday against Penn State and
play like the way they came out, Like man, these
guys are they got the memo right?

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
Yeah? I want the same this same same exact game
plan is stupid obviously, but the intent of like we're here,
we're here to beat you guys, Like we're not here
to make this a close game. We're not here. You
know we've seen that before too, right, Like we had
to shorten the game, we had to maximize possessions. Like no,
like go beat them, like just go act like they
they acted like they wanted to beat Penn State on Saturday. Yeah,

(01:00:45):
like you bring that same intent, you should be able
to beat Wisconsin.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:00:51):
Last thing that was that was like the way they
started that game and that it sounds like they showed
competitive fight.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
Yes, like that was a team that came there and
felt like we're not underdogs, We're gonna win this game.
I love the way they started out. That's what they
have to bring to Madison.

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
And uh, you mentioned the line and we've certainly talked
about them a lot. I don't think as much as
Darius has had a good year. I think he's left
some yards on the table, you know, And at Rutgers
I thought he did. PJ mentioned how he's not seeing
things very clearly. There was a run. It might have
been it was on one of the second half drives,
but it must have been in the fourth quarter where
he tried to bounce it outside and there was there

(01:01:31):
was an audible grown from where I was standing to
the bench, like and usually I've got my headset on
like this like one year out, so I can kind
of hear what's going on. There was an audible from
like multiple people like, oh, because like the line did
what they were supposed to do there and Darius didn't
see it right, wasn't ready for it, didn't plant, wasn't

(01:01:52):
one hundred percent, don't know, ended up getting tackled out
by the boundary. And if he just I think so,
I mean, I think that's why the run game I
think has struggled. It's been sometimes he had no chance
to do anything right. They just blew him up in
the backfield. But then like the few times where the
line did everything they were supposed to do, five working
is one as a fist, and then Darius doesn't see

(01:02:15):
it right, Like I've never heard an audible groan like that,
like oh my god. From most it was like it
was like the crowd behind me could see it. It
was so loud, like you'll hear the build when Coy
Parrish is about to return, you hear everybody, or you
see someone streaking down the field on a on a
you know, a deep route and the balls just got
to get there, like you can hear that. I could

(01:02:36):
hear it from the bench, like, oh my god, that
was there. That would have been an explosive run and
we needed it and we didn't get it. I don't
remember what happened after, but I think that's just been
if it's been one thing or the other, it's that's
why the offensive line or that's why the running game
just hasn't been there as much this year. And find
it against Wisconsin. Ye I gotta win this game. They do,

(01:02:58):
like just go. There's years where you know, we we've
all been alive for the fifteen year streak or however
many years it was, and there were years where you
just were not even in their class during that streak.
Then there were years where you felt like you were
and weird things kept happening. Tommy Olsen's still mad about
being called for an illegal hands to the face penalty
in the red zone, which was not a good call.
That's still haunts him. Right. You had big ten West

(01:03:18):
aspirations multiple times over there the twenty nineteen game, you
know where they you thought they were better than you,
were better than them, and they boat raced you, like,
take advantage of Wisconsin. Will Wisconsin's down and this is
down for them right the last handful of years. And
you mentioned Brailen Allen Burnsy. The only thing Brayleen Allen's
doing for the batteries right now is tweeting negatively after
the game that they lost to Nebraska and then he's

(01:03:41):
going to.

Speaker 3 (01:03:41):
Tell stories one day about what actually happened.

Speaker 1 (01:03:43):
That's what's going on right now. They fired the offensive coordinator,
the whole bit. So you guys should, like, I think
this gop A team feels good about itself whatever people
on the outside think, should they or not? They do
because of how they played and the game last Saturday,
Like they should be going into this game confident. It's
not like, oh, how's wiscons going to be? They should
be in my opinion, going into this game confident and

(01:04:06):
so a lot of it's what you just said, Chipper.
They've got dudes on this team, Like, just go be
dudes and bring the acts back. H Yeah. Should I
fire him up before the game? You think that would work?
I think you should give the pregame speech.

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
You give them the pregame speech.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
Yeah, well, I will say the twenty eighteen halftime speech
where I was standing outside the locker room. People have
seen it. That was one where I was like, holy bleep,
that was and that one made That was I think
one of the first speeches that made it out onto
a video. Yeah, because I'm agen one to not be
afraid to be a legend. And I was standing up
against the wall like this by the door, and then

(01:04:40):
the door just comes flying out and the players are there,
and I'm like, oh my god, should I get in this?
Like I feel like I could go make a couple
of tackles because that was insane. That was ridiculous. And
we know how that one ended. Anything else we want
to discuss before we say goodbye.

Speaker 2 (01:04:54):
Happy Thanksgiving.

Speaker 1 (01:04:56):
Happy Thanksgiving. I'm thankful for both of you. I'm thankful all.

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
Thankful for our listeners because we you know, when you
walk to the game or whatever. I went out and
saw my buddy Kyle at the sky you my lot.

Speaker 4 (01:05:07):
I got there early and went out to tailgate and
had a couple of people, you know, of course are
a hundred percent, but say.

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
How much they love the podcast, and you know, that's
cool that that.

Speaker 4 (01:05:19):
I am thankful that when we started this four years ago,
that has become what it has and people have made
it part of their weekly listening habits.

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
So I'm thankful for them.

Speaker 3 (01:05:28):
Ships dream that was culminated there at the yard house,
wasn't it, Carrecly that was.

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
The yard house. Yes, the yard house at the west end.
It all came together. I could do without being asked
what my phone percentages every five feet? That's just me,
you know, it's not my phone. I'm not the crazy one,
you know, my actually I do. I was like, what
I do? Like when people show me their phone though,
that is the best, And that happens NonStop on Oak Street.
It is so good. It's great, happens NonStop, and it's

(01:05:57):
very very funny. Mine is always at like thirty seven,
which would just send Chip into the Mississippi River if
he ever knew that would be We still got to
do that. That's another offseason project. Just have you sit
in a room with no electricity or no ability to
charge and just see when you start to shake, and
when you start This is a man who's going crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:06:20):
Rock. Yeah, dark retreats.

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
Is that yeah, Chips Darkness retreat when he has to
go below seventy for an extended period of time. All right, Well,
Happy Thanksgiving everybody. If you're going over to Madison, safe travels.
I know a lot of people are annoyed that it's
a Black Friday game. I think it's cool. You're the
only game on that eleven. Uh. I think that's a
cool opportunity. And then you get the whole Thanksgiving weekend open.

(01:06:43):
So Burnsy will see you over there, Chipper, We'll see
you over there. Jackscafe dot com to make your holiday reservations,
including Breakfast with Santa December seventh, fourteenth, and twenty first.
Those are Saturdays. Jaxcafe dot com have a great Thanksgiving.
Travel safely if you're heading over to Madison, and we
will talk to you next week on the parentis Bear Podcast.