February 2025: Coaches Leave for NFL, Big Ten Spending, Gaardsy Meltdown on Basketball Fans

Chip Scoggins, Ryan Burns and Justin Gaard are back for a busy offseason show discussing two coaches leaving Minnesota for the NFL and where PJ Fleck looked to replace them. They also discuss a deep dive from The Athletic into Big Ten spending before Gaardsy somehow gets going on a meltdown regarding Minnesota basketball that left the other guys speechless.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Glenn Mason said a long time ago at the University
of Minnesota, you need.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
A Pair and a Spare.

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Thank you, PJ. It is time for another edition of
The Pair and a Spare podcast. I'm justin guard from
the fan. We've got Ryan Burns from Gopher Illustrated dot
Com and Chip Skoggin's taking a break from mister Project's
schedule carving it out giving us a couple of minutes
of his time because it's project season. I've got a
real nice daylight saving some light thing going on here
while I'm here on YouTube. Well, it's just I don't know.

(00:27):
The sun is just outside of this window here in
the Pair and a Spare World Studios, and so I'm
going into the darkness. I'm coming out of the darkness.
I'm gonna try to just lay back here. I guess
it's tough being me. It's tough being me here in
the room in my house where my stuff gets to go.
It's the guest bedroom slash office, slash stores closet for
dad's stuff. That's basically where I am right now.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
I thought you had assistant holding one of those light
things off in the background, like doing TV right there.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
Yeah, Well, trust me, it's my pale Norwegian face. It's
tough to light on TV. Oh good for me. I'm
on TV and every day they basically use my face
for the white ballance, you know how they'll hold up
the white sheet like this to make sure they get.

Speaker 3 (01:09):
Everything balance at all. When you hold up that piece
of white paper there between and that.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
I look horrific on TV. I don't put on any
I should. The problem is, you know, don't You don't
really have makeup people in local television anymore. This isn't
the sixties and seventies. Ron Burgundy ain't walking through that door.
So I just sit there and have to deal with
however I look, and just deal with the slings and
arrows that come, because, believe me, they come. They come

(01:37):
at a clip. Oh yeah, which is fine. And I'm
sorry that, you know, a'm Od Hicks and Peter Nusiam
and Ben Johnson and PJ. Fleck and Ron Johnson. I'm
sorry they look better than me on TV. That's just
the way. I can't help that. This is how I
was born. You can actually probably see it back here.
Oh no, it's covered up. Rasmus Guard who came over

(01:57):
from Norway. And like the eighteen hundreds, he had a
pale complexion. And That's what I'm dealing with right now.
That's what I'm dealing with right now.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
So you guys said, we all have a face for radio,
and myself and well, I won't speak for you guys,
but I have a body for podcast.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
A body for podcasting. We definitely have a body for podcasting.
I'm speaking of podcasts. Burnsy, thanks so much for helping
promote my Danny Collins podcast last week. I really appreciated you.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
Not even welcome for the fodder for the entire story.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
By the way, not not even one time, you know,
not even one time. Yeah, I wonder if Burnsy mentioned, Hey, good,
thirty minutes with Danny Collins told a couple of interesting
stories that even Ryan Burns didn't get to. Showed me
his ticket stub from his first game when he was
three years old at Notre Dame. No, it's okay, though,
I don't need any promotion on the best Gopher message

(02:44):
board in the whole wide world.

Speaker 3 (02:46):
I don't you get all the people over at Go
for Football promoting it. I think you did okay over there.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Every every little bit helps, But no, I'm sure you
were too busy. I'm sure you were too busy in
your wife's house to just go to take four.

Speaker 3 (02:58):
We're not even four minutes in and I'm out here
catching It's not astray.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
This is a direct shot. This is not astray. You know.
It's like, I try to help you. I try to
support you, my buddy, good stuff from Burnsey. You know,
have you on the radio shows, But it's too much
for you to just go, Hey, GUARDSI did something interesting.
Maybe you guys could listen to it and help support
those that support us. But no, thank you to I
should pull it up because a couple a couple of men.

Speaker 3 (03:24):
For trying to take like a little bit of a break. Now,
coaching staff is a little bit on a break, so
I don't all right, keep keep going, you can. Did
you go anywhere?

Speaker 2 (03:34):
Did you go anywhere on your break without your phone?
Or do you just kind of sit at home?

Speaker 3 (03:38):
No, we're trying to Well, we just started fostering a cat,
so we are now an obligation to that until we
can get her into some full time home. So if
anybody's looking to have a sweet three year old cat
in their life, we can. You can send me a
message about that. But now we're trying to figure out
someplace to go. I mean again, I don't have the

(03:59):
project and the depth of the projects that you do,
so I'm open to suggestions. I just want to go
somewhere warm.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
Chip takes more vacations than all of us. Every time
we talk to him, he's like, I'm going to Montreal,
I'm going to Florida. I'm going to Tennessee, I'm going
to Maui. Like he's mister projects and mister vacation.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
I'm going to Italy soon.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
What is this?

Speaker 3 (04:20):
The Star Tribune money, Glenn Taylor.

Speaker 2 (04:23):
This is a twenty five year wedding in.

Speaker 3 (04:25):
Uh oh, there we go Italy of Italian No.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
No, but I know wine.

Speaker 3 (04:33):
Yeah, I know pasta, Yeah, I know pasta and win,
I know pasta.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
I know. Well, so when's that? When do we have
to plan around that.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
First week of April?

Speaker 1 (04:42):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (04:43):
All right, and we're and we're trying to line up
something with Jack's just early plug on him that we
teased a couple of weeks ago that yep, sometime.

Speaker 3 (04:51):
In April, maybe you could bring back some recipes, some
pasta recipes for Jack's cafe.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
So my wife. So I can't boil water, right, I don't.
I agrill, like that's my contributions.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
Drop them in the snow.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
Sometimes I do face forward face plants in the snow.
But I can't. I can't cook. So my wife tells me,
she she signs us up. When we're in Italy, we're
gonna go to some castle for a pasta cooking class.
What do you think the odds are would have an
international incident on that? Like, but there's there were two
Like you get to drink wine while you're making pasta,

(05:26):
but there's two, Like there's just that, and then there's
pasta making where you dance. That's the one I want.
That's no like, So I told her it's like, we're
not doing that. When I said, well, what if I
have too much wine and start dancing, and I can
just say I thought this was the other one, Right,
that'd be acceptable.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
It would be I'm just excited, Chips, the hopeless romantic
that's doing a little wine and pasta Italian castle. It
is very tough to screw up pasta, especially with your
wife overseeing you.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
Well, my wife's a great cook, but I, like I said,
I will, I can't cook anything like. I literally can't.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
Cook any except the grin. That's sorry.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
I can grill and I can microwife.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
Yeah, I don't think you have to be the lead
singer for the pasta. You just got to play the tambourine.
But you have to play the tambourine really well.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
All right, And I assume you've already amazon the proper
like auxiliary cord that you need for your phone charger
over there, right the year we got with.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
Yeah, we got the we got the right uh plug ins,
we got the.

Speaker 3 (06:31):
Would you already have it from your trip over with
the Vikings to London though?

Speaker 2 (06:35):
Oh that's right, Yeah, we had one, and we got
the portable charger, so I'm good. Don't worry about me.

Speaker 1 (06:43):
We'd hate for you to ruin the pasta class for
everyone because your phone dipped to seventy six percent or
something like that. We'd hate for you to ruin that
experience anyway. Thanks to Foggy Guy on go for Illustrated
dot Com for helping promote my podcast. Appreciate that the
moderator and one of my Yeah, thanks to fog I
had to look it up. Foggy Guy, appreciate you. Thank
you for noticing there's some of us trying to do

(07:03):
some you know, trying to do some Gopher coverage out here.
We're just you know, doing what we can. And thanks
again to Danny.

Speaker 3 (07:08):
Plug for the Marianna Sorry Maarn podcast tour. Do We
don't want to give grim anything.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
You do whatever you want. I'm not going to tell
you what to do anymore. You can promote and plug
and help out whoever whoever you deem fit. That's fine,
that's fine. Thought it'd be nice. But you know, it's
all good, No big deal, no big deal. We plug
chips projects, we plug your projects. It's like, you know,
your guy, you know, just a little hurt. It's little hurt.
He never plugged parents. You used to always put parents

(07:32):
spar on go for illustraded dot com. Never It's like,
do you hate clicks? Do you hate downloads? On this?
But do you hate fewer people? Do you hate fewer
people going to Jackson?

Speaker 3 (07:42):
I thing okay at the Guardhousehold. I feel like I'm
being projected on right now.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
No, this is one hundred percent just for you. Everything
else in my life is great. This is no projection
at all. Everything's going fine. I just want to make
sure you know I'm watching you, all right. I'm monitoring
the message boards. I'd love to see parent of Spaar
get some love on there every once in a while,
because you're a part of it.

Speaker 3 (08:00):
I am.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
I don't know why you hate Jack's Cafe getting a
plug on Gopher Illustrated, but this is where we are,
and I know you have time now because everything else
is you're fostering a cat. We're happy for you.

Speaker 3 (08:10):
I know you got a lot of work there, but
you can put pair in a spare podcast today.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
Up there is that fair.

Speaker 3 (08:15):
That is very fair.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
Was just in a good mood when we started this thing,
and now it's just beaten down. Man.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
I'm watching him.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
I want you.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
And I'm going to segue right into Burnsy is the
guy to talk to about the new Gopher coaches. Like,
if you want to read about who these new Gopher
coaches are, go to Gopher Illustrated dot com and read
all of the things that Burnsy has done. Last week,
I sent out a text we want to do a show,
and because you guys aren't as committed as me, you
both said no, and I said okay, no big deal.

(08:47):
Five minutes later, uh, Winston Dilata Madare on his way
to Arizona. Nick rallis just pillaging his old program, the
defensive coordinator for the Arizona Cardinals, taking the young up
and comer, great recruiter, great coach, great buzz, great guy,
Winston Deebo going to Arizona. And then Nick McKissick Luke,
the running backs coach. Later in the week, we find
out is on his way to the New York Football Jets.

(09:10):
So two guys leaving for the National Football League burns.
He will start with, do you take it wherever you
want to go? Just your reaction to that before we
talk about the new guys.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
Yeah, it's interesting to actually have a go for football
staff that is being pillaged by the NFL. I don't
can't remember a time. You guys have a better memory
than myself that in one offseason you've already had multiple
coaches go to the NFL. Where again wins is going
to be the defensive line coach for you dine his own.
Nick ralis which it's crazy his rise from graduate assistant

(09:43):
in Oregon to five years later, essentially he's now going
to be an NFL d line coach, which again it's
it's quite the rise, especially for somebody in their twenties.
And then for Nick McKissick Luke. Just a couple of
years ago, he was at Northern Illinois. Now he's going
to be working with Breeze Hall in the NFL. Can
you guys remember a time in which the NFL held

(10:03):
multiple go go for coaches in such regard?

Speaker 2 (10:07):
No, I think I go back to my time on
the Beat. They had a strength coach that I believe
went to the NFL, But I can't remember another position
coach going.

Speaker 3 (10:18):
Aaron Hill is strength coach for like the Green Bay
Packers former Gopher lineback.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
I think it's the Niners, unless you unless you went
to the Packers in between that, Yeah, Aaron Hill's there. Uh,
Moe Lindquiss went to the Cowboys for a minute, Ye
did he have a did he have a college stop? Well? Yeah,
I think it was A and M and then the
Cowboys and then he was at Michigan. Then he was
the head coach of Buffalo. Now he's the DC at Alabama,
right unless something has changed. But he was a guy

(10:43):
pretty quickly on you know a pj's first staff that
found his way to the NFL. But not two in
one week like that. That's that's pretty big. That's I mean,
big time stuff for those guys. Good for them. Can't
blame that on the assistant salary pool, can you, Burnsey?

Speaker 3 (10:59):
Probably not. I think just the quality of life in
the NFL is a lot easier with your twelve month calendar.
Knowing you don't have to go out and recruit, you
know who your personnel is going to be. You're not
going to be threatened to be losing them at any point.
You know when you have a shot at him, you
know when you don't. I don't blame anybody for the NFL. Plus,
I know there was a third assistant who also interviewed

(11:19):
for an NFL job. He didn't end up getting it.
But that's where if you want to go to the NFL.
That is again I think for a lot of these
guys is a big goal for them where sure, well
spend a lot of time on the assistant salary pool.
I'm sure on this episode quite yet, but for these
guys being able to go up to the NFL, especially
for a guy like Winston, to me again, from graduate

(11:39):
assistant to just a handful of years ago, he played
for PJ Fleck, coached for PJ Fleck, and now is
going to be an NFL defensive line coach. I mean,
it is a meteoric rise we haven't quite seen here
at Minnesota and sometime.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yeah, it's crazy. I mean he's going to be coaching
guys that are older than him, and that's not unusual,
but uh right, there might be a lot they're older
than him. Yeah, I mean I think, you know, coaches
are probably no different than players that they strive to
coach at the highest level, and not only is the
quality of life probably easier, I'm guessing the paychecks a
little different too.

Speaker 3 (12:12):
So yeah, I don't think they're taking pay cuts to
go to the end, no, So.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah, I mean it's good for them obviously, that's a
great opportunity in their career. I don't know much about
the Runnings back scopes, to be honest with you, but
but Winston, that's a loss for the for the program
because I just I thought that guy had such a
presence about him. When you hear players talk about him

(12:39):
and his energy that he brought, I assume he's a
hell of a recruiter. Imagine that walking into walking into
your living room with his energy and presence and you know,
just uh everything about him. So that's a loss. I mean,
I'm sure PJ will do a good job of finding
guys that he's or he has hired, that he's optimistic about,

(13:03):
and he's done a good job of backfieling and finding
the next wave. But this has been a pretty what's
the number total now of assistance this law season? If
they lost bersie.

Speaker 3 (13:16):
Well from the ten on field assistance, it's Heathermanto Miami,
and then it's Winston and Nick to the NFL. So
you lost three of them.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
Yeah, so basically a third of your stat which.

Speaker 3 (13:27):
Is about normal for context around college football in this dance.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
Yeah, so it's not unusual, but this is you know,
we talk about continuity with coaching staffs, and I think
that's great. But I as long as you're as long
as you're hiring and having mind quality replacements, I don't
know that it's a huge deal. But I do think
Winston's a loss because I just think he he strikes

(13:55):
me as a guy that would have been a pretty
good defensive coordinator here in short order at some well.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
He fits the college game so well because of the
energy that's that's really what surprised me about that, not
that he had NFL aspirations. I always go back to
being on a boat on a Gopher road trip with
a bunch of the coaches in the summer. Richard Patino
was on that boat and they were one of the
big jobs that just opened up, might have been Indiana.

Speaker 3 (14:20):
And so this isn't the same boat that went on
Lake Minnetonka with.

Speaker 1 (14:23):
No different boat, very very very different boat.

Speaker 3 (14:27):
University making sure I have to cover my bases with
you west side guys.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
And I remember somebody in administration asking Patino there were
a couple of NBA coaches that had some stops in college,
you know, would this person be interested in Indiana? And
he said no, no, And they're like, really Indiana as
opposed to X y Z NBA job? You go why
he goes because I don't see him wanting to be
on a boat in Spicer in the summer. And his

(14:54):
point me on, there's just stuff you have to do
as a college coach that you don't have to do
as a professional coach, and cruiting would be one of those.
Winston I'm sure was a great recruiter. It seemed like
he certainly was, and a lot of the graphics and commits,
he was front and center, it seems like. But I
was surprised because he when I think of him, I
think of a college coach, just because of how well
he connects with the college athlete. And I wonder if

(15:16):
you yeah, but I just want I do. I'm interested,
you know, when you're that hyped all the time, and
I see him every game right Like, like you said, Chips,
he's talking to adults now, you know, it's like a
D line. Trenches are kind of always they're all kind
of the same. But it just, yeah, he was such
a good fit for college. I'm sure he's a great coach,

(15:36):
just I just always thought of him as like the
perfect college coach because of how well he connected with
the players.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
Well to the energy. I mean, it's one thing. I
think it'd be a little more unusual if he wasn't
going with Nick Ralis, if he's just going to you know,
a team that he didn't know. The DC they just
were impressed with him a little bit. You're going with
your friend. But I think coaching that position is a
lot about emotion. So if you ever seen assistant coaches.
Those coaches are a little more just well, you know a
lot of coaches are demonstrative, but defensive line coaches are

(16:09):
definitely that way. I don't I don't think he'll have
any problem commanding that respect with guys that are older
in him and having the authority, and I just think
he has that kind of presence. But but yeah, you
talk about no recruiting, no n I L, no transfer portal,
none of that stuff that you have to deal with
when you're When you're there, you're just coaching professionals, right,

(16:31):
and you're trying to figure out technique and all those
things and how you beat the guy across from You
don't have to deal with all the other stuff that
college coaches so I have to deal with. So I'm
sure you know a lot of guys would say, Hey,
sign me up for that NFL job and not have
to deal with this stuff that we're dealing with.

Speaker 3 (16:50):
Kind of reminds me of when PJ was with the
Tampa Bay Buccaneers, where it was he was younger than
guy like Vincent Jackson, and it's all that energy going
to these professionals who'd certainly have a much different demeanor,
especially for dealing with like a thirty three year old
pass rusher at that stage and all that energy going
with a thirty three year old, I can imagine it's
a little bit different and he'll have to adapt his style.

(17:13):
But you know, if anything, it just tells you what
the NFL thought of the way that he was developing.
And that's where you had John Joyner and Danny Strigau.
And again, the Danny Stregau story going to the Senior
Bowl is one that maybe guards he doesn't talk about enough,
but it's because I don't put it on my website.
And that's fine, right was the message board? Yeah, And
that's where again, to have a young guy like that,

(17:34):
which PJ took a chance on, he'd only I mean,
Winston went from Minnesota playing there to a graduate assistant
to then a defensive line coach out at Akron I believe,
or might have been a graduate assistant to. Then he
took a chance on him in his mid twenties and
ended up working out well, was sought after by Big
ten programs and other ones. Now he's going to be

(17:55):
in the NFL again. I don't know where the trajectory's
going to land, but it's tough to argue that his
continuing to point up.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
And also you're connecting yourself to another guy whose stock
has been up since the second he left Nick Ralis.
I mean, that guy, you know is a total stud,
just just a total and he was when he was here, right,
I mean, he was basically the assistant linebacker coach here
when Sauvel was the DC. There's no coincidence that he
jumped on with j Savel a couple of different times.

(18:22):
He obviously spent some time with Mike Zimmer was in Philly.
Now he's the DC there. He's got a bright, bright,
bright bright future, and so to jump on with him,
He's got a great present right now. He's twenty nine
years old, right, And what you said burns I think so, yeah,
which is crazy. He was a commit His brother Mike
was on the team my first year, your first year
twenty eleven. So that's a pretty quick rise too. And

(18:44):
I would imagine he's going to be a head coach
here sooner rather than later, at least being put in
the mix because of how highly thought of he is.
So I would assume Winston can jump in with Dad
as he continues to get his foothold in the National
Football League. So good for him, good for them. It's
crazy how many you know Minnesota NFL angles there are
now between players and coaches that you know, we get

(19:05):
to talk about every Sunday. It's pretty good stuff.

Speaker 3 (19:08):
Yeah, I mean again, even when Nick mcissig luke with
the New York Jets. Now he gets to go from
coaching Darius Taylor to coach in Breeze Hall. It's a
heck of a gig if you can get it. So again,
don't blame him at all.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
So who are the replacements? Burnsy we can go to
go for Illustrated dot com and read them great website.

Speaker 3 (19:25):
Love the work that they were there. Try to promote
it every time that I can.

Speaker 1 (19:29):
Who are ship just put the back?

Speaker 3 (19:35):
Who are the replacements who are now filling those roles?

Speaker 1 (19:38):
Fill us in on that.

Speaker 3 (19:40):
Yeah, So they figured out the running back coach here
in the last forty eight hours. That's going to be
a guy by the name of Jaden Everett, a running
back coach who just took the job at South Alabama.
He was there for about two three weeks and now
Minnesota has hired him. So what was your favorite Jaden
Everett at South Alabama moment, but he was at Michigan
this past season helping Tony Alford coach the running back.

(20:00):
He's someone that had been at Vanderbilt Tulsa. The hope
would be he's going to be a pretty good recruiter.
I can hopefully develop Darius Taylor in his last year,
potentially last year again, we'll see what happens with him.
You look at the defensive line, it sounds like they're
going to elevate Dennis Dott and Carter from rush ends
coach to full time defensive line coach. He was someone
that has been with the program for a few years,

(20:22):
worked with Joe Rossi back in the day, and was
hired when Joe Rossie was still here. Now he's going
to be the full time defensive line coach. Promoting from within,
and they just hired a guy by the name of CJ.
Robbins last night to fill Dennis Dott in Carter's role
as the rush ends coach. So a graduate assistant here
guardsian him. Had quite a few beers back in twenty ten,

(20:43):
twenty eleven during his graduate assistant days. From what I
was told last night, but I got a lot of
promoting a couple promote guys and Dennis Stton Carter who
put in his time. You get a guy like CJ.
Robbins who had been a graduate assistant here, and then
you get an outside higher type with the running back
coaching positions. So you got three different kind of guys there.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
You know the did you talk about the promotion? This
is why And Kevin O'Connell was talking about this last year.
I did kind of a column talking about the new
tentacle of the arrange Way Arms races. All these coaching

(21:25):
staff sizes. I mean, they're just you you know, they're
you look at an NBA bench and there's fourteen coaches.
There's more coaches than but I think O'Connell or it
might have been even Chris Finch that said too. Part
of that is you're you're you're constantly developing the young guys,
so when guys move on, you have a pretty good

(21:46):
sense of the next guy you're promoting. So I think,
you know, you make fun of the analysts and graduate assistants,
not make fun, but just say there's a lot of
them and kind of what what is their role? Well,
this is what it is like. You're constantly. You're you're
training and developing coaches just as much as you know
you're dealing with your players. So when you do lose guys,
you feel comfortable promote from within. So sounds like Pj's.

(22:10):
I think PJ probably likes that part. I mean, he
didn't like losing coaches, but I think he likes developing coaches,
you know, like he does players, and you must feel
comfortable with these guys that he's going to elevate him into,
you know, position coaches, full time position coaches.

Speaker 3 (22:24):
Now, well, it's a good way to do it too.
In your assistant salary pool. Burnsey's favorite thing is not
as high as.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
Some other schools, A lot of other schools and even
if you if you listen to the Danny Collins podcast
available wherever you get your favorite podcasts, the Golden Golfer podcasts,
he kind of talks about that, like just just being
with Joe Rossi when he, you know, was driving door
Dash during the week of Penn State twenty nineteen. Right,
he's essentially I can make it.

Speaker 3 (22:53):
Said on the podcast the Thursday before the Penn State came.
Do you know where we could find that podcast? Again?

Speaker 1 (22:59):
It's wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Some websites have
chosen to link directly to it to make it easier
for people. You can also check my Twitter handle at
Guardsy Foggy Guy. Did a nice job of letting people
know where it is, but it's very easy to find it.
But yeah, while he's doing all that he's learning, he's
basically Joe Rossi's right hand man and learning everything that
goes into it. So when Joe Rossi, you know, when

(23:19):
they have a couple of people leave, he jumps right
in there. And it does it does make sense to
have as many young guys in the hopper and in
the chamber just learning the way, and especially when they're
young and hungry and trying to prove themselves and everything. Like,
you can find a lot of diamonds in the rough,
and a lot of staffs have done that. Certainly PJ
has done that a lot, in part because he's had to,

(23:40):
but in part because he's just found the right people
that have the right whatever it is, drive hunger, whatever
that we're we're gonna go do this. So that's and
it's nice that he rewards them with those opportunities, and
for the most part, they've all worked out pretty well, right, Yeah, his.

Speaker 3 (23:53):
Hit rate on internal guys is I think a lot higher.
It at least seems like it's a lot higher than
some of his external Which, again, if you've got to
do Minnesota moneyball approach because of the limitations you have,
you want to have a kind of success story like
the Tampa Bay Rays have to do every single year
where they don't have the payroll to compete with the
New York Yankees and the Boston Red Sox. You know,

(24:15):
I'd love to at least I think Danny Collins I'll
say this, I think Danny Collins and Greg Harbo are
going to be the test for this, this whole moneyball
approach that Minnesota has gone to, or chosen to gone to,
because these are two guys that have been with PJ.
Fleck for a long time. I mean, they are lifers
with him, and I believe they are the two lowest

(24:36):
paid coordinators at their respective positions.

Speaker 1 (24:38):
We'll see.

Speaker 3 (24:38):
I don't know what Northwestern's coordinators make, but if they
do succeed here this fall, they're going to be in
line for raises, which again I've said it before, both
things can be true. Greg Harbo is the lowest paid
offensive coordinator of the Big Ten, but he is also
the highest paid offensive coordinator in the history of Minnesota.
Go for football because of Kirks Rak and not ended

(24:59):
up staying for some thing. So that's where I'm going
to be curious to see when, when these two hopefully
are in line four raises of market value of some kind,
will Minnesota be willing to go for them, and will
in turn again we've seen Corey Heatherman and Joe Rossi
and kirs Rocket leave for much greener pastures again. I

(25:20):
think it's going to be a fascinating case study twelve
and twenty four months from now.

Speaker 2 (25:25):
Yeah, the whole thing of they're the highest paid ever
in program history. That doesn't really hold much water to
me because the world's different, Like everything's more expensive. I mean,
you can say, of course the coordinators now are going
to make more than they did.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
It cost nine dollars for eggs right now.

Speaker 3 (25:46):
Chip for the record, I have to state that or
else the people over at the University of Minnesota, who
already love when I talk about this, by the way,
they love it so much. I'm well aware. Yeah, but
it is It's true. But it's also you need context
around it, which is important that you're providing.

Speaker 2 (26:01):
Yes, Yes, and Mark Cole is the highest paid athletic director.
Had p J flax this Ben Jhon you know you
can go down to the e because salaries, so it's
it's it's a totally different world. But yes, uh, you know,
if if they have good years and and they're in

(26:22):
demand from the outside, you'd hope that the school would
be in the position where they would step up. And
and you know, I could be honest. I thought Greg
Harbo had had a really good year. I agree, I
thought he had a I thought I thought he showed
a lot of improvement. I think some of that was
or maybe a big part of that was PJ allowing
him to have more autonomy and heading helps a lot

(26:44):
get in the quarterback. Yeah, but I thought he had
I thought he I thought he had a really nice year.
And we'll see if Danny Collins kind of can pick
that up and and and show a lot of what
heather Man showed in his first year. So but yeah,
the the it'll be interesting with all these new guys,

(27:05):
and that's that's you know, I don't want to get
too deep into weeds on these salaries. But when you're
promoting for within and young guys, you're not gonna start
them off with biddle the pack, pick ten money. It's
just not it's not it works. I mean in any profession,
you know, when you're a young person, you're not coming
in making more than So it's gonna be a little

(27:25):
skew this year because I think they have so many
new young guys taking into you know, full time uh
salary roles, So this year might not be the best barometer. ELSA.

Speaker 3 (27:39):
Well, what's really the curious part for me is, and
I'm waiting to hear back on some f O I
A requests is between Heatherman and Winston and Nick McKissick
Gluke leaving, that's about a million dollars in buyouts here comes.
I was I gonna, I was gonna, I was gonna
wait for this hit it burns.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
I was gonna lead right into it. Go ahead.

Speaker 3 (27:57):
To Chip's point, there's two things, and I'm gonna be
curious to see once all these requests come back, is
you've been paid a million in buyouts plus to your point,
I mean, marianno, sorry, Marin, is not gonna cost a lot,
Dennis Dotton, Carter CJ. Robbins, Jade Neverett. I don't expect
Jaye Nevertt to make any more than Nick McKissick Luke did. So, Like,
if you're saving money both because of salary and because

(28:19):
of the buyouts, I'm very curious to see kind of
where it goes. Is it gonna go back to like
a potential buyout for a different team that's very close
to that facility here coming up? Is it gonna go
towards like the barn renovation fund? Where is it all?
It's a very curious thing to kind of think about.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
I'll say that you always like to know they were
gonna pay this, now they're not. What are they doing
with that money? That's the thread that you like to follow.
They might be saving it, I mean they might just
be holding on to it, or they might be putting
it in Now. Football I think is kind of its
own deal. I don't know if they operate football with
other sports in mind necessarily, Like what we were, well,

(29:02):
we were gonna we were going to use this money
for football. Now we're going to use it for XYZ sport.
I think that money's going to stay with football.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
So we're do invest in football.

Speaker 1 (29:12):
My guess is, yeah, somewhere, whether it's recruiting, whether it's holding,
whether it's waiting to give it to those to those
raises that you're already pining for, even though it's February eleventh,
like and they, you know, haven't played Buffalo yet or
any game in twenty twenty five. I don't think they say, well,
we saved a million in football, let's kick it over
to somewhere else. I just don't think I could be wrong.

(29:33):
I just think they probably want to keep it ear
marked for whatever football wants, whatever football love.

Speaker 3 (29:38):
To believe that, and I hope that's true. I just again,
I'm staring at some of the data which we can
get into with that beautiful Scott DOCTRMN article which I've
certainly linked to on the Go for Illustrated message boards
and not somebody else's podcast. But that's where when you
look at the latest fiscal year of data, the profit
margin for a minute for Go for football has never
been higher, right, and it's forty three million dollars profit,

(30:00):
which is up ten million from two years ago. Like
football is making more money for the university and than
it never has and A large part of that is
the media rights deal, but it's if football continues to
make that much more money every year. I really don't
want to hear it from anyone over there that we
don't have money to find an extra one hundred thousand

(30:21):
or two hundred thousand to keep XYZ guy. But let's uh,
what do you think. You're the transition guy, You're the natural,
You're the man with the face for radio. You think
we should get into that Scott Doctorman article.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
Guards I think we should. And because it's Scott Doctor,
I mean the guy you know. Both of you know
I hide it. I hold in the highest regard. I'll
allow the linking to his article, yet not my podcast.
I have no problem. I have no problem doing that.
I was just doing some quick math because, as you know,
my math is very suspect. So thankfully I have my calculator.

(30:54):
If I do twenty one million timeser point seventy five,
that's seventy five percent. Right, about fifteen point seventy five
million dollars is what we think is kind of earmarked
for the pain of the players starting we think in
July first, because you were talking about Burnsey, the profits
and they've got forty million dollars, well right there, you know, yeah,

(31:15):
basically fifteen of it. That's where that's going. Like, you
can take fiscal year two years ago, you know, or
last year, you know, twenty three to twenty four, that's
all great subtracks fifteen from that. So let's say twenty
six now or twenty nine whatever it is that that's
that would be the profit. Who knows what the fiscal
year is going to look like, you know, this next
coming year, but this is a big going to be

(31:36):
a big piece of it. But what stood out to
you about that, uh, those document numbers. We talked a
little bit about this last week right or two weeks
ago with the Gopher money and how much they spent
and where it was all going, or actually the Ohio
state thing, right because they were at a big deficit
because of buyouts and things like that. What stood out
to me was how many schools have no problem just

(31:58):
borrowing a bunch of money from their university and spending like, who,
We're fine at a deficit because what was it? Like
a good handful of people have a ton of debt
and also take direct money from schools. Rutgers takes a
ton from their university. I was surprised Minnesota took some
because my argument had been forever it is self sustaining.

(32:21):
They don't take any taxpayer money. When you talk about
buyouts and you talk about facilities and everything that goes
into it. My understanding was that they were always pretty
well self sustaining. Now I don't know what the exact
number is, and it doesn't appear like it's a ton
of money, but through fees or whatever, they have taken
some from the school here, or at least they did
in the last fiscal year.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
Yeah, they've taken loans from the university before. I can't
remember what the last one. They needed a big loan
and they repay.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
It, you know, right, it's probably the.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
Probably was, yeah, or maybe even a buyout. I can't remember,
but that's that's you know, they've done that in the past,
but it's not something that they uh want to make
a habit of, right, I know. Rutgers they have their
debt services.

Speaker 3 (33:06):
Rutgers is such the exception because Rutgers just does not
care that they take tens of millions from money, which
ye hey man, I'm going to tell you how to
the Saint going to be a government type of podcasts here.
But there's just it's so interesting to look across the
Big ten and like again, I think the headliner from
that article would be that Ohio State had a thirty

(33:28):
eight million dollar deficit because they just spent all the
money in the world. Now, it helps when you have
two hundred plus million in revenue compared to Minnesota who
had one hundred and fifty one revenue. Plus you knew
the next year you're going to have more home games. Again,
for this, for this data set that we're using for
the record, it's fiscal year twenty four, which is essentially

(33:49):
the twenty twenty three football season, So that's where Ohio
State didn't have it as many games. But again, can
you imagine the steam that would be coming out of
so many people's ears if they heard that Mark Coyle
had a thirty eight million dollar deficit here, Well.

Speaker 2 (34:06):
That's the thing.

Speaker 1 (34:06):
I mean, it never happened. Yeah, it would just never happen.
Correct By the way, I'm not saying is wrong, but
it's instructive. When this is who you're allegedly competing with,
what they're willing to do.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
Well, we've all talked to Mark Cole about budget and
what's the one thing he says that central administration always
tells him you got to balance your budget. You got
to have a balance budget. And so if you look
at it every year, I mean, their revenues are not
much different than their expenditures. I mean they're they It's
not like there's stockpile and money away. So you ask

(34:37):
about talked about the football revenues. Where is that money's
going to go. It's going to go to house versus
is ever settlement. I mean that's what were we saying
twenty one million? I think that's the figure everyone's landing on. Yeah,
that that's going to go to athletes. And so you
knew that as the TV revenue continues to increase, you know,

(35:01):
the natural assumption is like, hey, they're going to be
flush with all this money. This new money is TV money.
He's like, Wow, not really, because the world has changed
and now you're gonna be able to pay athletes and
so that's where that money is going to go.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
So twelve athletic departments have total debt exceeding ninety million dollars.
So twelve of eighteen, that's two thirds, right, Burnsy.

Speaker 3 (35:21):
That's a good Dyna math for you.

Speaker 1 (35:22):
Thank you. So two thirds of the conference have debt
more than ninety million. Now a lot of that some
of them are facilities.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
Or upgrades, debt service would yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
Things that have been in for a long time, buyouts.
If we mentioned that was part of Ohio States, think
that was part of Michigan States. I don't know if
that counts what they may or may not have to
do with mel Tucker's contract, remember, because they were they
were trying to get out of that. Northwestern is in
litigation with Pat Fitzgerald. You know he's due like forty
mil if he ends up kicking it. So six of them,

(35:55):
that's one third Ryan are north of two hundred and
twenty five million dollars in debt, Like two hundred twenty
five million dollars in debt, six of them Illinois, who
you're competing against directly, Right, that's a school that most
people think, well, Minnesota should be in the Illinois wheelhouse, right,
even though they've got again like every school, more tradition,
more access to players, the whole bit. Three twelve Ohio State,

(36:18):
two eighty six Michigan, Michigan who prints money is in
debt two hundred and fifty two million, or has debt
that they're working on. Penn State again, Prince Money two
hundred and forty six, Washington two forty four, Iowa two
twenty seven. That's crazy because I just think about the
teeth gnashing when it was the last sixty million dollars

(36:38):
for athletes village that they needed to raise.

Speaker 3 (36:41):
Maybe it was thirty I can't even remember. I could
go back and look.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
But people are like, oh man, they're not going to
get to money, like they're going to have to borrow it.
They're gonna have to borrow thirty millions, like who cares
or sixty You look at what these other schools are doing.
It's wild. Ucla claims no athletic debt, which is interesting
because they've been operating at a loss for like six
or seven years. That's part of the reason why they're
in the big ten. Ucla received thirty million dollars in

(37:06):
direct institutional support, picked up another one point five million
in student fees, Maryland twelve million dollars in student fees,
six point one million direct support from the school, and
then there's Rutgers. Smoke them if you got them. Charts
is athletic debt at fifty one point four million. They
received more than twenty one million dollars in student fees
and direct institutional support. So why can they hire Kirk

(37:30):
Shiraka and try to hire Corey Heatherman Because money don't
matter in Piscataway. You know, I've had to do this before. Hey,
this credit cards bugs be matched out. Maybe we should
see if they can up the up the limit a
little bit, you know, coming out of the pandemic. Rutgers
just says sure, yeah, history of paying the minimal fees,
you've got your overstretched, no problem. We're happy to extend

(37:52):
another you know, five, ten, fifteen million dollars, whatever you need.

Speaker 3 (37:56):
It's just to get it. Just gives you the perspective
of how different it is from Rutgers to UCLA, which
again doctor Man talks about within that article A fifty one,
they spent more than fifty one million than they had
this year fifty Like, Chip, what is your boy Martin
Jarman doing out there?

Speaker 2 (38:17):
Well, that's why when I hear Mick Cronin complaining about
the travel in the Big ten, I'm sure the AD's
over that we need the money. Yeah, It's like we're
not going to turn down the money. Yeah, it's it's
you see these numbers and you you know, you can't

(38:38):
help but shake your head and just think, where's this
going and how's it going to end? Like it's just
going to continue to add up the debt total, Like
how do you get out from under it? And and
and and be profitable? And you know, but it's I've

(39:00):
always said major college sports is a giant game of chase,
and this giant game of chase has led everyone to
forget about finances because it's just I got to keep
up with them. I got to keep up with them,
and then the next coach comes in this program has this, Okay,
we got to go pay for that. So it's just
it's just endless game of chase where you're always chasing competitors,

(39:23):
you're chasing rivals, you're chasing the next someone else in
your conference, and before you know it, you have all
this debt. And yes, the TV money is continues to increase.
And I always wonder if there's a ceiling on that
is or the bubble gonna burst on that Maybe not
with streaming, I don't, you know, that's smarter people than me.
But everything keeps going up, up, up up up Right,

(39:46):
now you're gonna have to pay players. I just wonder
ten years from now, what will this look like, this enterprise.

Speaker 1 (39:55):
I don't think we'll know.

Speaker 3 (39:58):
It's interesting just how you can have places like Wreckers
take from the budget. Do you have places like UCLA
with a fifty plus million dollar deficit in one fiscal year,
and then you have Minnesota where it's I think Coyle
spent like a million and a half more. I think
it was like a million and a half deficit for
fiscal year twenty four. But it's going to be interesting

(40:20):
to see what everybody prioritizes because I even think about
Minnesota here, and that's where they got the new gymnastics
facility going in for all the I mean, they have
put a lot of money into non revenue sports like gymnastics,
track and field, got new buildings with the village, golf
got a new building, tennis and hockey. And then we
have the overarching gigantic expense coming, which is the barn.

(40:42):
And it's going to be we talked about it last episode.
It's going to be very expensive, seventy five plus million
dollars to either renovate it or build something new.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
As we said, then it's gonna be more than that.
I mean, I think it's gonna be at least twice that.

Speaker 3 (40:56):
So there's gigantic expenditures coming as you find are able
to hopefully pay off athletes village here coming up very soon.
But the way that it's going to be balanced is
going to be fascinating to watch because obviously football is
the golden goose for any university, and that's where football
generated ninety million dollars at the University of Minnesota of

(41:17):
their one hundred and fifty million dollar budget. That's sixty percent.
For those of you, like justin Guard who can't do.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
That, thank you.

Speaker 3 (41:23):
The math there, thank you. But you always have to
find ways to Again, I understand that you have to
earmark money for the house settlement, you have to earmark
money for William's arena, the athlete's village dead. But it's
trying to figure out a way to balance it all
plus keep football profitable for fans with putting on a
good product on the field, which PJ. Fleck has done.

(41:46):
It's it's going to be again. I don't want to
be morek Coyle for that aspect because I don't know
how you do it. I don't know how you satisfy everybody.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
You don't what it is.

Speaker 3 (41:56):
Go ahead, you know, I was.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
The idea of cutting sports, not just here, but that's
a talker in college at every you know, across college
sports because of this this house settlement. You can't cut
your way to twenty one million dollars. That's not going
to be the answer. I mean, some of these non
revus that people talk about, Okay, that's a million million
a half their budget. You just can't cut your way

(42:22):
to twenty one million dollars. So you're gonna have to
find it elsewhere, and nobody wants to do that, right.
You want to have a broad based Yes, football is
your priority. That's where you have to make your most money.
That's where you have to really lean into and be
great at and make sure you're giving them every opportunity
to succeed. But you're gonna have to be creative, and
I think creative in ways that that's not just okay, well,

(42:45):
let's just eliminate this sport that's gonna, you know, help,
That's that's not the answer.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
Burns that you mentioned not so subtly. Another buy out
possibly right down the street. So you're talking about Ben
Jonson the basketball coach. YEP. It's interesting seeing that because
when we talked about the house settlement stuff with Coyle
one of the pregame shows he talked, he talked about

(43:10):
schools are gonna He said, I don't think you're gonna
see a lot of these crazy buyouts anymore, you know,
like the gust Melzon's or the Jimbo Fishers, and some
schools are always going to be crazy, but most schools
are they going to be willing to stomach buyouts given
that the finances, like you said fifteen million, let's just
say it's fifteen million, to make it round fifteen million,

(43:31):
well twenty million, because they they're going to spend the limit,
So twenty million dollars of your budget is going right
back to the players. Like you don't even see that
money it comes in, And I don't know if they
have a mailbox that all the players go get to
pick it up, or if they direct deposit it. But
he talked about like you really have to you really
have to be committed to we have to make a change.
And I'm not just saying at men's basketball, but if

(43:52):
you want to specify it to that his buyouts three
million dollars two point nine something like that. You're probably
gonna have to pay the next coach least two point
nine million dollars. Ben is the lowest paid, second to
lowest Big ten paid coach, right that we know about.
I think Ohio State's guy, the kid Deebler is three million,
makes about yo?

Speaker 3 (44:10):
Ben make two?

Speaker 1 (44:11):
Yes, so that's the lowest, right, correct? Yeah? And we
lowest that we know about. We assume USC and Northwestern
Eric Musselman and Chris Collins, who's been there forever, they're
making more than two million dollars.

Speaker 3 (44:25):
Correct, I think so?

Speaker 1 (44:26):
So he's eighteen there. So you always talk about getting competitive, Well,
what's what's middle of the pack in the Big ten
right now? Probably four, four or five million at least.
So before you even bounce a basketball next year you're
at three. You're probably at seven or eight plus. You
have a lot more stance than I do.

Speaker 3 (44:47):
That whoever, the next if it does happen, and whoever,
the next men's basketball coaches will be making more than
I will say two point five I have, but they
no faith. But who are you getting the more?

Speaker 1 (44:59):
Because right that's kind of That's kind of my point
in this whole thing, and so and we can, you know,
we can talk about so because people ask me all
the time, what do you think about this? What do
you think about that? I don't know what Mark Coyle
is thinking when it comes to Ben Johnson. I know
what I'm thinking when it comes to Ben Johnson is
probably very different than a lot of people on your
message boards because in my opinion, and not not to

(45:21):
switch it to this, but in my opinion, you know,
Ben was doing the job he was hired to do,
and then the job changed on him, and they like
in a minute, like I'm watching the other night for
el Paynes starting on a top fifteen team, Elijah Hawkins
is starting on a top fifteen team. On one Saturday,
I had to watch those games back to back and
Elijah Hawkins told him he was coming back twice. And
Cam Christie's playing for the San Diego Clippers. I think

(45:43):
more people were ready, Dina Minnetonka when I went up
to the community center two weeks ago, like that was
supposed to be his team this year and he didn't
have it. So my perspective is different. It always has
been we talked about Patino over the years. Burns E
like I I'm much more patient, I think than most people.
But I also look at the money and go all right,
in these times when cat when people are already strapped,

(46:06):
are you going, yeah, we're going to bang a three
million dollar buyout? You have to pay Any coach that's
going to come here, number one is going to want
to know what your nil commitment is. As an institution.
They're going to be fighting for every single dollar, which,
as we know, it was slower than most to get
football going, which makes sense. That's the best, that's what
you should do. You're probably like seven eight nine million
dollars in before you even bounce a basketball this summer.

(46:29):
So I don't know, we'll see what happens, but I
think in general, institutions are really going to have to
think about that, the buyout money stuff, because or you're
going to be just borrowing from the schools like all
these unless you have a school that doesn't mind just
giving you loans year after year after year after year.

Speaker 3 (46:48):
It's an interesting conundrum. And again I tend to be
more towards you where it's I don't know that there
is a right answer to how to fix Gopher men's
basketball because it is again, it's just it was a
money issue back in the spring, and it is kind
of what it is. And whoever the next guy would be, again,
I have no faith that they would be making anything

(47:09):
more than seventeenth in the Big Ten money plus what
is your allotment going to be from the house settlement?
And what steam is there for nil in terms of
there's a lot of apathy in my opinion, around the
go for men's basketball program right now, which kind of
just is what it is. I don't know what the
right answer is. And again I don't disagree that Ben

(47:30):
was put in a spot that is not really his
fault because of the money situation with the players, but
it just is something to where if you're going to
keep him around, you can't expect to see the bottom
line on the budget in terms of ticket sales and
everything like that going to be in an upward trajectory
quite at all. I mean, especially with losing Dawson.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
For sure, after for sure. Now, what I would say though,
is like, if for people that want that move to
be made, as I think Chip you hinted at too,
if you think you're going to gonna make that move
and then limp in again at two five with somebody
like good luck, like good luck. That that to me
is the definition of insanity, Like I get it, you

(48:10):
know if if you know, just hypothetically, you know, like
even when they let Richard go, hey, we're gonna go
get somebody and we're gonna pay him five million dollars, Yeah,
like you could have done that, right, they could have
done that. But so that's what That's where I'm always like, yeah,
in four years is also quick. You know, he gave
Lindsay five Like I mean I would, I would. I

(48:31):
would give him a shot with the REV share and
see if you can figure some from stuff out. That's
me personally. But if you think for people to think
like well we'll just go higher X y Z if
you're not going to invest, I'm I'm kind of like
you for the assistant Pool Burnsy. You know, this is
this is kind of my thing, Like if you're not
going to invest at this level, then what are you

(48:51):
then that you finance your expectations? You really do, and
it doesn't guarantee anything, but I just I don't know
what good that would do you to say, yeah, two
five is gonna max And that's just the number you're
making up. That's not anything that's like obviously hard reported.
But I remember talking to a regent four or five
years ago, said what would you think of a what
would you think of a paying the basketball coach three

(49:12):
million dollars?

Speaker 3 (49:12):
And this person said, I just don't see it. I
just don't see it at this point.

Speaker 1 (49:16):
And I said, Okay, well, yeah, that's gonna limit who's
coming in. And I don't don't confuse it like I
would run it back year five. Revenue share tried it
because just from conversations I've had just in the world
of basketball, like you can, you can the number they're
going to have is going to be a good competitive number,
and I think that is going to help. But that
that that would be me.

Speaker 2 (49:36):
So anyway, yeah, it was interesting. I can't remember if
it was after the Whalen firing or Patino, but we
had to press conference and I asked Cole as like,
why can't these basketball programs succeed? And this is not
like a four year thing, this is a you know,
we can go back and and Mark said, I've thought

(49:58):
about that a lot.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (49:59):
We coul We could probably talk for five hours on
this thing about MS basketball, particularly.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
I couldn't and just go through it all.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
I don't think our listeners would want.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
That, but well, they wouldn't like my answers. They don't
like my answers. But I've lived it. You see, the
play hard thing. This is me, all right, this is
Clem Haskins basketball camp, like how.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
Many years ago?

Speaker 3 (50:21):
That's it.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
That was my whole point is like, yeah, talking about
Clem and Agill days for how many years ago is like,
and how many coaches and how many coaches and how
many you know? So but we you know, we had
that conversation about football for a while, right, Like what
Glenn Mason wasn't a bad coach, He was a good coach, right,
Garry Kill was a good coachj f is a good coach.

(50:46):
I always come back to, and I always come back
to commitment, man, commitment. That's you look at schools that
are committed to something and that that that's where that's
that's the starting point. That's the foundation for me. So
now what that looks like again, we can talk about
that for the next five hours. But you know, there

(51:11):
there are symptoms to things and I always come back
to commitment, and I think I know and we could,
you know, not in every year, but they are committed
to football. And we can talk about assistant salary pool
and I know that's burnsy saying, but the commitment to
football now is a hell a lot different than the

(51:33):
commitment of football than when I was a beat.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
Writer on totally.

Speaker 2 (51:36):
And just tell you that.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
And guess what. They have a really good solid program.
They have a really the programs on a good rock
solid foundation. They've had some really good years, They've had
some really good wins. They're putting guys in the NFL,
They're putting coaches in the NFL. Their coaches are getting
poached by power programs and the like. Yeah, you get
what you emphasize, for sure, you absolutely get what you emphasize.

(51:58):
Apropos of nothing in terms of how difficult to Minnesota
basketball job is you guys can comments see.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
You open a can of birdies or guardsis.

Speaker 1 (52:05):
Or ready no, this is my assistant salary nowadays, I will.
I don't apropos of nothing. I just happen to look
at the Mountain West standings here and the defending champs
in the Mountain West. The New Mexico Lobos are twenty
and four this year and twelve and one in the
Big in the Mountain West. They've won six games in
a row very safely in the NCAA tournament field, and

(52:27):
as far as I know it have no Minnesotans on
the roster. So I didn't know that was possible. But
as far as I know, it seems like the Lobos
are going to back to back tournament, so it seems
like it might be a hard place to win. So
maybe we give a guy, and maybe we give some
people a chance and a little bit of a break.
And that includes the current head coach. That's just me.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
I would love to buy guardsy and IPA and just
say go for go for basketball.

Speaker 1 (52:51):
You don't even have to let Gopher basketball is my IPA.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
Is there anything? Is there anything you love more than
Gopher basketball that tugs at your heart more?

Speaker 3 (53:00):
Maybe maybe your wife and children? I'll answer that for you.

Speaker 1 (53:04):
Yeah, well, yeah, I think I have Speaking of Muscleman,
I think I have a picture of me waiting for
Bill Musselman's autograph down here as a seven year old.
I will say, I take, I do take, I do
take go for basketball. The most personally. If you want
to know what I'm like wolves, of course, I was
seven when they came. It's awesome. Yeah, but I'm the
last generation that can talk to the old people at

(53:25):
William's Arena about what it used to be. Like, I'm
forty two years old. People younger than me. When the
old people start talking, they gravitate to me because I'm
the only one that remembers it. I'm the only one
that was there for part of that. So I do
take the last Barnaby I am. You're right, yeah we
got a Halloween baby. We got a barn baby on
this podcast. But I remember, so I remember it. But

(53:45):
I also know that we got to stop obsessing over
it because those days are gone. Like those days are
just gone. It's got to be done a different way.
It just does. And so but I do take it
the most personally, Like if you're asking me, if you're
asking me, which which who am I the biggest homer for?
It's absolutely go for basketball. Absolutely, And I make no
apologies for it. I just don't because I and I

(54:08):
feel but I feel like I know college basketball pretty well, yeah,
just from from and meeting the coaches, and I feel
like I've taken the time to learn how the whole
thing works. Yeah, and it's a really bleeping hard place
to win. It just is it always has been, even
in the glory days. Yeah, we got to cut this
off because I'm I could go, well, I just I could.

(54:30):
I could take an hour of your time. I mean
I would, just I would. I would ask anybody to
just Wikipedia GOP men's basketball and look at the n
C DOUBA tournaments that they have and have not had,
because we remember, like, man, when Musselman was here, you know,
we had the fun warm up and it was NC
Double A's and it was like, yeah, it was a

(54:51):
couple of times and the school got put on probation. Okay,
when Dutch was here, when Clem was here. Like how
many people are obsessed with Brian Dutcher. Good God, like
because Jim was the coach and did games on MS.

Speaker 3 (55:03):
Local media members that will be at.

Speaker 1 (55:05):
T get it and they're seventy eight years old, and
it's like, let's get Brian Dutcher here. Brian Dutcher, I
think lives on the beach in San Diego and is
the number one show in town. He's not coming to Minnesota.
He's just not sorry, and it's not nineteen eighty seven.
I remember watching Jim Dutcher on MSc. I think I
have the video. Yeah, here it is. Look at this.
This is who you're talking to right here. Look at

(55:26):
this VHS on YouTube, nineteen ninety seven Final forty.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
Over right next to it.

Speaker 3 (55:31):
Yeah, get it's this drawer.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
This is.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
Who he finishes. He's putting that thing in.

Speaker 3 (55:43):
He's number twenty four. Here.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
I'm gonna scroll up to see my Final four basketball
also signed by Bobby Jackson. So I didn't mean to
hijack this thing, but it's like, I'm I should be
the authority on this, and it's just that's why I
defended Patino. That's why i've you know, you know now
Tubby I was too hard on I will say that Tubby.
I think I got Norwood tegued a little bit. I

(56:06):
got Norwood tegued and because in hindsight, Tubby did a
good job here. Right, it's a really hard place to win.
So I'm forgiving people chances and understanding it's a hard
place to win. It's going to take something different and
unique to make it that way. But if you're not
going to go pay a coach six million dollars. What's
the alternative, you know, doing it the way Ben was
doing it and lost three players that he wasn't expecting

(56:27):
to lose anything else, you guys want to add on that.

Speaker 3 (56:30):
God, We're gonna have a lot of fodder here in
the next couple of weeks.

Speaker 1 (56:33):
Chipper, Well, this episode get posted on go forer Illustrated
dot com because I'm sure your audience is going to
have some thoughts on everything.

Speaker 3 (56:40):
Just for you. It pulls up, I forgot a VHS tape.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
Well, I have the tape, I don't have any way
to play.

Speaker 3 (56:50):
It about to say, you got to convert.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
VH just looks at the cover, tears in his eyes.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
He just looks, Oh, look, here's my there's the ticket.

Speaker 3 (56:58):
I didn't even know I had this from the ninety
seven Final four. I didn't even know this was in there.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
Got to frame that.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
Maybe I'm like Danny Collins.

Speaker 3 (57:05):
That's probably worth something somewhere.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
Wow, these are in really good shape too. Here's whatd no,
here's the championship game. It's that was Kentucky and Arizona
overtime victory. Mike Bibbie, Miles Simon Jason Terry was the
sixth man. Yeah, Rick Patino was the coach. So yeah,
I feel like I'm the authority on go for basketball,
and I make no apologies for it. I care the
most about that as as anybody so, but it bothers

(57:30):
me when people go, well, just you know, we're gonna
fire the coach, We're gonna do this, We're gonna do that.
It's like, Okay, it ain't that easy. And the old
coach who everybody hated because he he wasn't good, you
know recruiting Minnesota kids is twenty one and bleeping four
going about to go to his second. Like, if they
fired Ben Johnson and no one knew Richard Patino, they'd

(57:50):
go the new Mexico coach would be a good fit here.
He's won back to back Mountain West titles. But because
we are who we are, it's just it is what
it is. So go Ben Jonson. If I win the
Mega millions, I'm donating it to Dinky Town athletes. I'm
giving Ben the money. I'm letting him keep the players
when the payrolls are equal. Ben does a good job
when he's got to play a six to eight freshman

(58:11):
who's probably making a half million dollars for Illinois that's
coming off the bench. It's gonna be a little tricky
when Brad Underwood could just sit there on the stool
like this and go good shot, Bud like that's tough.

Speaker 3 (58:21):
So anyway, you just had to put a quarter in.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
I'm chipper, I have no idea how this even started.
It was great.

Speaker 1 (58:29):
I'm gonna have to go back and listen.

Speaker 3 (58:32):
Passion in your voice is unmapped.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
It that's that's that's what we want.

Speaker 1 (58:40):
It's a tough place to win. It's a tough place
to win. And he was on his way to winning
and lost a couple of guys. Anyway, I can't look.

Speaker 3 (58:52):
I knew what was gonna happen when you put the
quarter in. I just didn't know it would last this long.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
I gotta see what else is in this drawer? What
other another vintage Nick Max?

Speaker 3 (59:02):
Do you have that? Artifacts?

Speaker 2 (59:03):
He has a short from the clam camp and there he's.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
Got his Yeah to play hard shorts, to play hard shorts.
I can't believe I have tickets to the Times.

Speaker 3 (59:12):
I'm gonna bring him to Thorson and get him signed.

Speaker 1 (59:17):
Yeah, what else do I have? Yeah, it's not important,
all right, anything else we want to talk about. Max
Brozmer is going to the combine. That's good, that's exciting.
Good for Max. He's gonna talk his way into an
NFL roster.

Speaker 3 (59:27):
Guys, if you should be a seventh round draft pick
somewhere like, yeah, he would be someone that is in
the NFL for a handful of years. And if he
gets a shot, we'll see what happens. But to me,
with how smart that kid is, he's an easy seventh
round draft pick.

Speaker 2 (59:40):
Yeah, there's no doubt in my mind. He's gonna be
on a practice squad next year for sure.

Speaker 3 (59:44):
And where was he the Shrine game? Burnsy Shrine boy?

Speaker 1 (59:47):
Yep? I mean every time I looked on Twitter, and
it's probably just the algorithm because they know I like
Max Brosmer. It's like random scouts are just like another
dime from Max Brosberg. Look at the processing. It was
just Max Brozmer non stop while he was at those
practices in the games. I mean, he's a stud. He's
a stud, we know, and that's why they you know,
had a great passing offense this year for sure, So

(01:00:09):
good for him.

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
If you're accurate, and you can process.

Speaker 3 (01:00:13):
You're gonna have a place in the NFL.

Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
That's right, all right, I'm gonna go take a shower.

Speaker 3 (01:00:19):
My second one vs tape on time one more.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
Time, Yeah, yeah, one more time.

Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
You had to this point that thing was ready. Un
ironically read.

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
D in Look this MSc Midwest Sports Channel. Jim Dutcher
used to be on the games. Yeah, Jim Dutcher and
Dick Bremer. Dick Bremer narrates this thing. It starts off.
If these walls could talk, imagine, imagine the stories they tell.
Look it, but look at this. This is my eighth
grade year. This is how long it's been, guys, eighth

(01:00:49):
grade and this year didn't count. I just want you
all to remember that this year the greatest year and
go for basketball history. It no longer counts. My ten
year old son asked me where the banner is every
time we go there, I say, I don't know, son,
I have no idea where.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
Storage closet, storage closet. But yeah, Bobby, taking from your heart,
though clearly they can't take it from your heart.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
I'm just taking a look here. So Bobby Jackson was
from North Carolina. John Thomas, Minneapolis, Roosevelt Park of Cottage
Growth had to get him, Trevor.

Speaker 3 (01:01:18):
Winter, because you didn't post it on your message board.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
Trevor went Winter Slayton, Minnesota. His kid plays for Wisconsin.
Thanks a lot, trev and Eric Harris from New York,
the point guard from New York, where if he doesn't
hurt his shoulder in the Sweet six team game against Clemson,
they probably win the national championship and then that would
have been vacated. So there you go. That is hilarious
that this was real. But I think it proves my point,

(01:01:42):
all right that I love this program. I'm a homer
about this program, and if that makes me an outlier,
I'll take it. And I would still tear it down
Williams Arena despite all that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:52):
But anyway you're gonna have there's gonna be a lot
of people with some thoughts and feelings for you on
the Ben Johnson and then that final statement of you
you want to tear down the barn. I'm open for
renovation ideas, but I want it to be the best
fan experience that it can possibly be. Whatever product is
on the court, take the team out of it. I
want the best fan experience you can possibly get if

(01:02:15):
that's renovate Williams Arena.

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
I'm all for it. It's a special building to people
forty two years old and older. Right, if you need
to build a new one, build a new one. But
I'll be there for it. I'll be there for We
need like a month off after this podcast? What do
we say?

Speaker 3 (01:02:33):
Oh my god, I love I love this.

Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
What's coming up?

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
We talk about football next one?

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
Yeah, we got a lot of football. What what's coming
up to go for Illustrated dot com Burnsy? What can
we help promote here on the Parentispare podcast?

Speaker 3 (01:02:46):
Why does Justin Guard want to tear down the barn?
And why does Justin Guard just think that we should
get rid of history. It's gonna be Ryan James Yard
coming out here quick. He will fight you. Brian James
will go down. If they bring a bulldozer, He's going
to chain himself to that.

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
Yeah, he would like you do. You're right?

Speaker 3 (01:03:04):
Yeah, I don't have quite the projects that Chip does.

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
Chip.

Speaker 3 (01:03:06):
What do you got? What do you want to A
couple of projects to peak behind your curtain before you
head off to the Italian Grape.

Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
Yeah, a couple couple of projects coming up in early March,
and uh, we'll talk about when it comes out maybe possibly.

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
So hold on, I'm just gonna have another cup of
coffee in my nineteen ninety seven Minnesota Final four mugs.
Hold On, it's gotta have that's good coffee.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
He's got, He's got the Jammy's, he's got the Sheese.

Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
Ninety seven Final four. You think I'm not invested in
go for hoops, You wonder why I take it so personally.
So anyway, is today Tuesday. I'm gonna go win the
mega millions, and yeah, don't tell my wife because I'm
giving it all to Ben Johnson and we're gonna get
this thing turned around.

Speaker 3 (01:03:50):
And then you're gonna eat every meal at Jack's Cafe.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
I'm gonna go to Jack's Cafe. I'm gonna say Bill,
I'd like the whole menu and send some crem brewl
go deliver it to Chips to get Burns the steak
because he loves that. And I'm gonna have a permanent
table by that bubbling brook in the back or right
around the right, around the corner from you know, brunch
season outside from the patio being open. The days are
getting longer. The sun is everywhere and Jack's Cafe is

(01:04:15):
the best place to do it, so and I can
maybe go get a drink there right now, because it
kind of feels like I need one.

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
And we're gonna have something at Jack's coming up. We
think we're pretty sure some kind of special evening.

Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
After you get back from Italy, right after I.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
Get back from Italy. But I'm I'm issuing to challenge.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
Or maybe a warning, a warning.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
I want you to come up and ask guards you
about go for basketball.

Speaker 1 (01:04:45):
Oh God, I gotta see what else I have in
this room. I do.

Speaker 2 (01:04:49):
I want everybody to join us when we do have
something I want. I want that place to be filled.
I want people to join us. Come, come hang out
with us, have a beer with us.

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
This is the other drink. And I'll show you, guys
real quick. This is Ryan. This is called a phone card.

Speaker 3 (01:05:02):
What is a phone card?

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
And you used to have to use payphones, but this
was this was ten free minutes on a payphone where
you could call somebody you had to You had to
use this number on the back of it. Chip knows
what I'm talking about, yes, sir. And they had these
in the final four seat cushions, which I don't know
where that is. My dad must have those somewhere. But yeah,
my uncle Rich and I just went like seat to
seat looking for more phone cards. So I've got like

(01:05:25):
ten to I've got ten to twenty of these in
nineteen ninety seven. It's probably an impermissible benefit back then
for it for the Final four kids, Courtney James was
probably calling his tutor with these phone cards. That's why
we got in trouble. So oh, hold on, hang on.
I'm just gonna put on my nineteen ninety seven Final
Four hat. I'll wear that this morning. I might actually

(01:05:45):
wear my nineteen ninety seven Big Ten champions hat autographed
by the whole team. I got a lot of a
lot of options, so yeah, don't come at me with
your thoughts. I'll go for basketball because nobody's been at
it as long as I have. All Right, we good,
good show, good good. All right. Hope everybody hung with this. Hope. Uh,
I'm sure people probably clicked off. Please leave your comments

(01:06:06):
on the YouTube page and also on go for Illustrated
dot com. Let me know what you think about our
last twenty five minutes of conversation on this football podcast.
The Pair and a Spare thanks to Chipskigins, thanks to
Ryan Burns, Thanks as always to Jack's Cafe. Make your
reservations at Jackscafe dot com and we'll talk to you.
I don't know, I might get fired from this podcast
next time on the What Is This The Pair and

(01:06:27):
a Spare Podcast