May 24, 2025 • 28 mins
Novelist Noel Stark takes Papamutes behind the scenes of her debut rom-com "Love, Camera, Action". Drawing from her extensive career working in nearly every position in film and television, Noel crafted an authentic, steamy story about a female director and cinematographer who constantly jostle for control—both on set and in the bedroom.
Noel discusses the power dynamics in her novel and how they reflect real industry experiences. Her explanation of how she approaches writing intimate scenes—focusing on what would surprise the characters rather than what might please readers—demonstrates her character-driven approach to storytelling.
Whether you're an aspiring writer, film industry professional, or romance reader, this conversation offers a fascinating glimpse into the creative process and the realities of bringing stories from imagination to page.
“THE OPINIONS EXPRESSED OR VIEWS EXPRESSED BY GUESTS DO NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT OR REPRESENT THOSE OF THE HOST;
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What is your mindset when you're writing a sex scene?
I mean, are you like thinkingabout how you would like it?
I mean, you know?
Or how the audience wouldapproach it.
I mean, I always wondered, notjust your book but other books.
I'm like, what are theyapproaching that.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I mean that's interesting.
I'm happy to say that no onehas asked me this question yet,
so I'm very impressed You'relistening to Unmuted with Papa.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Mutes.
Welcome to Papa Mutes everybody.
Today my guest is Noelle Stark.
Noelle is an author.
Her debut novel, love CameraAction is on sale now.
Noelle also has a televisionand film background.
Has worked in almost everyposition in the film and TV
industry, both in front of andbehind the camera.
I'm thrilled to have her onNoelle.
Welcome to Poppin' Mutes.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
My pleasure.
So before we get to the bookwhich I've read, loved it,
Awesome.
I mean, I'm not saying thatjust because you're coming on, I
just sucked in.
Well, I mean the book you know,you got to, you want to read,
you put it down, you want toread, you put it down, you want
to know what's going on.
I mean the whole.
It worked for me anyway.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I'm glad to hear it yeah, that's great.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Uh, so, before we get to the book, what is your
background in the film and tvindustry?
Now, how deep were you, or areyou?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
um, pretty deep.
Uh, I started out as an actress.
Before then I was a singer, andthen I was an actress and I got
into TV behind the camera,because, you know, someone told
me that I should, I should writeand direct a short film and put
(01:37):
myself in it as a kind ofbusiness card, and, for whatever
reason, I didn't like that idea.
But I like the idea of making ashort film, and so I did this
short film that was based on aStrindberg short play and it
just exploded.
It went to Sundance, it went toTIFF and it launched me into
(01:57):
this career that I wasn't reallyexpecting.
So I've worked.
I mean, I'm Canadian, so it's amuch different industry than LA
, which is where I'm now.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Now let me interrupt you for a second.
Can I interrupt you for?
A second Because I'm a hugehockey fan, so who's your team?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Well, okay, so this is a funny story.
I was never brought up withhockey, so I don't actually have
a team, I know.
But what's funny about that ismy dad found out he was adopted
when he was around 50.
And it turns out that mygrandfather was in the original
six as a goalie and his name ison the Stanley Cup no way Joe.
(02:37):
Stark, joe Stark.
He played with the, he playedfor the Leafs and he played for
the Blackhawks.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Wow.
So, but I mean, you were born.
Where, though?
Which part of?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Canada.
So I was born in a small townnorth of Toronto.
So I don't know, for whateverreason, my dad watched football.
We didn't watch hockey.
But when I started kind oflooking into my own ancestral
background, I started watchinghockey myself.
So I don't actually have a team.
I kind of fluctuate between whoI think is interesting at the
(03:08):
moment.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
But who's your team?
Are you Flyers?
No, I'm from Pittsburgh, so I'mfrom Pittsburgh.
Right.
Yeah, I'm a Penguins fan, but Ilive in Flyer territory.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Okay, well, you have one of our big Canadians, right,
the Penguins have.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Crosby, crosby, yep, sidney Crosby, yeah, absolutely
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
All right.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Good to know, joe Stark, so go ahead.
Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt.
Oh, yeah, no problem.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
So working in TV in Canada is a much different beast
than in the States, and thereason for that is because the
pie is a lot smaller, theindustry is a lot smaller and so
you have to do a bunch ofdifferent jobs just to kind of
get by.
So I've been a writer forscripted, I've been a writer for
reality, I've been a director,I've been a producer, I've
(03:57):
worked in post, I've worked onkids shows.
I've worked on.
I had a lot, a lot of realityexperience on ghost shows or
renovation shows or true crime.
So I've worked across the boardin almost every capacity
casting, pa, story, producer,all all the things.
So when I wanted to, when Idecided to write this book, I
(04:21):
wanted to put it in the film andTV industry, because I knew it
quite well from a number ofdifferent angles, because I
didn't want to.
I didn't want to worry too muchabout world building, I wanted
to focus on the characters andthe love story without having to
worry too much about theenvironment.
So that's why I love cameraaction is set on a TV set.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yeah, no, but you have never written a novel
before.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
No.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
That had to be a challenge.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
I mean, you know, it was such a challenge.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I mean writing TV, writing scripts.
I mean it's a whole differentanimal right.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Really different, really different.
The reason why I wanted tostart writing a novel is because
when you're working on your ownprojects in TV and film, it
takes an enormous amount ofeffort from other people.
You have to convince otherpeople that your project is
worthy.
(05:15):
You have to get a huge amountof money to make anything, work
and time and effort from tons ofpeople, and so I kind of wanted
to do something that was justme.
I could work on my owndeadlines and work on my own
voice, and I found it actuallyreally relaxing.
Now, it was very tough, becauseit is a different animal and I
(05:38):
had to learn how to write in amuch different way, but because
I didn't have to do it foranybody else other than myself,
it was.
It was a pleasant experience,as pleasant as writing can be,
cause, honestly, it's alwaysterrible.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
How long from the time you started to write it to
the completion approximately?
Speaker 2 (05:58):
to the completion of the manuscript, or, to like,
till it's on the shelf till it'son the shelf okay, seven years,
seven years.
so I'm a single mom and I workin tv, so I stole time, uh, to
write this thing whenever Icould.
When I first moved to la, I waswriting on the bus because I
didn't have a car.
(06:19):
I was writing um in the seatswhile I was watching my kid in
his taekwondo class.
I was waking up at 530 in themorning just to get a half an
hour in, like I was stealingtime from everywhere and so it
took me a long time, and plus Iwas learning a whole new format.
So it took me about three,three and a half years to get it
to a place where I could submitit.
And then the finding the agent,finding the publisher, then the
(06:47):
publisher actually publishingit took another chunk of time as
well.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
So, yeah, it's like a movie.
You know, a whole movie processtakes a long time too.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah oh yeah, for sure a long time, um so all
right.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
So love camera action .
I read it.
I know what it's about, but forthe listeners, what is it about
?
Okay?
Speaker 2 (07:03):
okay it's about, but for the listeners, what is it
about, okay?
Okay, it's about a femaledirector who's been hired to
shoot this a couple of episodeson this TV show called the Demon
.
And she's been hired at thelast minute because the director
that was originally on the showgot fired because he said some
unfortunate things about the MeToo movement.
So the producers had to find awoman for PR reasons, someone
(07:26):
who is available and someone whoknows how to direct sex scenes,
which are not the easiestthings to direct.
So they find this woman, callie.
She's Canadian, they fly her in,she walks straight on set for
the first day, she has no timeto prepare and she smashes right
into the director ofphotography who she has kind of
an industry crush on becausehe's a genius.
(07:49):
He's considered a tyrant, buthe's also considered an artist
and she's so excited to workwith him and he doesn't really
want to have anything to do withher because he doesn't want to
be working with a newbie.
He doesn't want to work withanybody who has ideas or like
excitement.
He just wants to get throughhis day.
(08:11):
So as a result, you knowchemistry happens, but also
conflict happens and you knowhijinks ensues.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Yeah, it's been coming all back to me now.
Yeah, it's been coming all backto me now.
How much is based on, you know,fiction and or I should say
reality that you've come acrossstorylines and stuff?
I mean it's not based on truepeople, but I'm sure some of the
storylines or stuff you haveseen maybe yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
I mean some of the scenes for sure have happened to
me or have happened to friendsof mine or I've heard about.
There's a scene in the bookwhere the showrunner comes in
and decides to switch the entirescene.
They're about to shoot a scenein hell and he wants to switch
(09:03):
all the lighting from red toblue and nobody thinks this is a
good idea.
But you have to do what theshowrunner says, and he
discusses this without Calliebeing present, and I've
personally, like a producer,going above the director and
just going straight to thedirector of photography.
I've experienced that when theyjust kind of cut you out of the
(09:25):
decision-making because thereused to be a little bit of an
old boys club I mean I couldargue that it's still there, but
it's certainly less and so thathas happened to me in the past.
But the idea of the showrunnerchanging everything from red to
blue on a whim happens every dayin a bunch of different ways
(09:47):
and in a bunch of differentexamples.
Working in TV, you always haveto deal with people that are
above you who just have theseideas, where they say you know,
wouldn't it be great if actuallyeverybody was dressed in
medieval wear and you're like,yeah, yeah, even though this is
a sci-fi shoot we're doing youknow and you have to you have to
(10:10):
change everything you know sothat stuff happens all the time
now.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Have you thought about it as a movie?
I mean, as I'm reading it I'mlike this could be a movie, or
yeah I mean, I would love it tobe a movie.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Do you want to make it?
Speaker 1 (10:26):
You got to raise that money, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Yeah, yeah, of course it's everybody's, every
novelist's dream to turn it intoa movie.
I would love that for sure.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
So would this fall under the?
What genre?
Like romantic?
I mean it's got a lot of stuff.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
How would you categorize it?
I categorize it as a rom-com,as a steamy on the steamy side
rom-com.
How would you categorize it?
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, now that you say that, yes, I agree.
Yeah, I mean speaking of steamy.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Well, for me, yeah, it's stuff that I would like to
read.
It's stuff that I would like to.
I mean, it's weird because whenyou get to that point in the
book and in this book it happensabout I don't know 65% of the
way through, these charactersare already so alive, they're
having their own dynamics.
So I'm not sure if Iconsciously think of it as me in
(11:20):
that situation, but of courseyou know that plays into it
about what you find interestingor what you find funny or sexy
or whatever.
But I think what I, when Ithink about sex scenes and
writing them, I think about whatis surprising to the characters
.
Like how can they surprise eachother so that they are really
(11:43):
like it, like they really findit exciting and titillating and
all those kinds of things.
So that's very character basedfor me in terms of like the
context.
Like in the first time, you know, callie and Jory get together.
Callie's had enough, she'sexhausted, she's she's had so
many hard times on the, on theset and she just wants to turn
(12:04):
her mind off.
And Jory feels badly because heknows he's sort of the author of
some of those bad times, but hewants to make her feel better
and himself along the way,obviously, and so that makes for
a certain kind of scene and shegives over all kind of control.
The idea between these two isthat they're always jostling for
(12:26):
control on the set off the setin the bedroom outside, all the
time.
They're always jostling forcontrol on the set off the set
in the bedroom outside, all thetime they're jostling for
control.
And so in this particularsituation she, she hands it over
to him and says this is yourshow, you're running this.
And in, even as they go along,she, she kind of instinctually
keeps trying to pull it backbecause you can't help it, and
(12:48):
he's like no, no, no, no.
You said like this is my show,so we're running it, and so that
makes a particular kind ofscene, you know yeah no it's
great.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
I mean a lot of tension, a lot of like, yeah,
nice, yeah, um.
So the character of howard ishe semi or loosely based on
howard or um harvey weinstein?
Speaker 2 (13:12):
I mean there's aspects of harvey weinstein some
of it are are showrunners thatI've personally worked with like
I've never.
I've never worked with someonewho's that blatantly predatory,
um, but I know a lot of peoplethat have, and I've certainly
been in very uncomfortablesituations with my superiors,
(13:33):
from again, the lowest to thehighest, and I think that's what
you know part of the Me Toomovement was about was calling
these, these guys and their badbehavior and bringing it into
the light.
And this is part of theconflict in the book too,
because Jory is very cognizantof that.
He does not want to get intotrouble.
He, he's a good guy and I thinkit's he's worried how a good
(13:57):
guy can sometimes be easilymisconstrued as a bad guy.
And so he, he wants to makesure that he's kind of covered
covered his butt in a way, butat the same time it's hard
because he's really attracted toCallie.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
So that's what, that's what makes some of the
conflict between the two of themas well.
Yeah nice, yeah, well done, um,thank you what I mean if you
had to narrow it down for youngwriters or anybody that's
approaching writing.
What was the most challengingpart of writing this novel?
I mean?
For for me besides the story,you know you got to, like you
said, you mentioned all thoseother things.
What would a younger writer notbe aware of?
Speaker 2 (14:37):
I mean for younger writers.
I think that this idea thatinspiration is going to carry
you through is is baloney, likeit's, it's not going to you.
Inspiration might give you thekernel of the idea, it might
give you a few scenes here andthere, but it is not going to
carry you through and you cannotwait for it.
So you have to be consistent,you have to find time to sit
(15:02):
down and, even if it's terrible,you have to find time to write
a hundred words or 200 words,and you have to do it every day,
or five times a week, orwhatever you can imagine,
whatever you can manage, becauseyou know, lots of people say
you know, if I only had threeweeks, I would write the great
American novel.
Or if I only had time, or likewhen my kids are older, I'll
(15:25):
have time, had time.
Or like when my kids are older,I'll have time.
And it's like it's wrong, likeit won't, like I can tell you
right now I was, I'm, a singlemom.
I'll say it again and I onlysay it because there's a,
there's a lack of time whenyou're a single mom and also
when you're working in TV, causeit's a very intense gig, like
there were months when Icouldn't write at all, but the
(15:46):
consistency is what carried methrough and you have to just
keep at it.
No matter how bad it is, howuninspired you are, you just
have to keep at it.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Do you have the story intact not intact, but you know
they like to say the beginning,middle end or or do you come up
with the characters and say youknow, I'm going to write a
story about what I know in thebusiness, and as it goes along
you start to create other scenes.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
I mean because it's, it's not easy no, it's not easy,
and there's different types ofwriters.
There's people who plot likeeverything to the teeth before
they start writing.
And then there's this other you.
You know, in the romance worldwe call them pantsers, so you're
writing by the seat of yourpants, and so this book I was
very much a pantser.
(16:31):
I had my two characters and Iknew the setting and I went, and
when I started my second novelI was like I can't do that again
.
That was, it took a long time,it was too stressful.
So with my second novel I was alittle bit more of a plotter,
like I knew where I was going, Iknew where I was headed, I knew
what themes I wanted to explore, and so that helped me.
(16:55):
But but I also left the dooropen for changes, if, if they
occurred.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Now, is this a follow-up to Love Camera Action,
or that was my next question.
Do you have another?
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Well, I do have a follow up to Love Camera Action,
but this, this other one.
Someone actually gave me somereally good advice that said you
know, while your first book isout on submission, start a
completely different series,because if the first one doesn't
go, there's no point in wastingtime on the second.
Now that that may not be astrue anymore because of indie
(17:29):
publishing and and you can justpublish it yourself, um, but I
chose to write somethingcompletely different, that's
more in the speculative fictionworld, um and uh, which was a
whole new thing, because therewas a lot of science involved
and I'm not a big science person, I'm a terrible science person
actually.
(17:51):
But that said, I have startedthe second book in the series of
Love Camera Action, and thisone is based on the actors, on
the two lead actors.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Cool.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Awesome.
Looking forward to it.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Now, who is your publisher?
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Alcove Press, who is connected with Penguin.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Cool, Cool.
You prefer reading or writing.
This is my preference section,by the way.
I just give you a couple ofchoices of stuff to get the.
Let the reader or listeners getto know you.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Yeah, I mean I, yeah, I mean I, they're so, they're
so different.
I love reading.
I love reading so much I readall you have to love writing.
To really write, I mean yougotta love it right I don't, I
don't know, I like I don't love,I don't love writing like it's
painful, wow painful.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Wow, really.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Yeah, I'm compelled to write.
I'm compelled to write.
Okay, I mean it seems like I'mcompelled to make things.
I've made movies, I've madesongs, I've, you know, acted.
I'm compelled to create things.
So I'm compelled to writethings because I have an idea in
my head and I really want tosee it out in the world.
Do I enjoy the process?
(19:11):
Not particularly Like.
I think it's hard, and it'sit's.
It's hard on your heart, it'shard on your brain.
You feel like an idiot.
Most of the time it's a.
When it's out there in theworld, you're scared that no one
will like it.
It's not easy.
Sure so, yeah, it's more of acompulsion okay, um coffee or
tea oh, that's unfair, that's anunfair question come on?
Speaker 1 (19:33):
come on coffee or tea ?
Speaker 2 (19:34):
it depends on.
Oh, okay, if I'm on a desertisland, tea, because there's a
whole bunch of different typesof tea you can have, okay, but I
don't think in regular life Iwould be able to give up coffee.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Addiction is tough.
It's really tough what?
Speaker 2 (19:55):
would you pick?
Speaker 1 (19:58):
I'd go coffee.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
You'd go coffee.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
I'd go coffee, yeah.
Movies or TV.
I'm talking about watching.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Oh gosh, that's also really tough because I grew up
with movies and I have.
I'm a huge cinephile.
I've watched so many differenttypes of movies, but in the last
10 years movies have reallytaken a header because of the
way that they're kind of madeLike they don't make money
anymore, so there's it's hard toso that there's it's hard to
find independent movies, it'shard to find good movies.
(20:27):
It's just not the same.
Like you, you know, like whatit used to be such a culture of
watching movies, from you know,john Wayne to Godard.
You know like it was.
You had so much to choose from.
And now it's the same with TV.
Like you have so much to choosefrom.
Uh, with TV, there's so muchgoing on.
And it's the same with TV.
Like you have so much to choosefrom, uh, with TV, there's so
much going on, and it's such adifferent narrative structure.
(20:49):
Like you can stay with thesepeople for a really long time.
Um, what I find interesting ismy son.
He's 11.
He doesn't like watching moviesbecause he finds them too
intense.
Um, yeah, like he, he wants tobe in a TV show that carries on
for a long time, so that he can,he can, enjoy that world for a
long time.
(21:09):
But but movies.
I almost have to force him towatch movies because he finds
them too stressful, it's notinteresting.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
The big screen is just.
That's the ultimate way towatch it, obviously.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Oh, oh, my God.
It's such an amazing, anamazing space and and because we
don't go to the big screenanymore, we're just watching
them on our tv and and I findthat the you know, often the uh
cinematography isn't asinteresting as it used to be.
I mean, of course, there'sexamples where there's tons,
there's movies that are amazing,like I really enjoyed conclave.
(21:43):
That that was really fun.
I thought Enora was great.
It's a great indie movie, butthey're just so few and far
between now.
Sunrise or sunset.
I will say I will.
You know, I like the sunrisebecause usually I'm the only one
(22:06):
looking at it, but sunsets aremore beautiful.
They tend to be more beautiful.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
I like the sunrise because they're also quiet.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
They're quiet.
Living in LA, I've been able togo to the beach and watch the
sun actually set on the ocean acouple of times, which is an
unbelievable experience.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
I highly recommend it to anyone who can do it um,
yeah, yeah, I mean, I've seenthat in florida a number of
times.
You know, sunset and all thatstuff, uh, uh, pizza or pasta,
pasta definitely, or pasta.
Pasta Definitely.
Yes, there you go.
I like it, love it.
I mean, I like pizza too, butyou got to go pasta.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Yeah, there's so many things you can do with it and,
honestly, you know, having a kidaround, you're eating pizza all
the time, all the time, becauseit's all they eat.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Or grandkids.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Or grandkids.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yeah, beach or swimming pool Beach, yeah me too
.
I like both Dinner date orlunch date.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Dinner date.
There's more you can do atdinner.
Lunch dates are for friends,dinner dates are for
possibilities.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
There you go.
Sounds like a movie.
Sounds like a book, high heelsor flats.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Oh God, flats.
I have spent so much time inhigh heels in pain that I never
want to go back.
I have to go to a bar mitzvahin a couple weeks and I have to
wear high heels.
I'm dreading it.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Oh well, acting or directing.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Direct directing.
I I loved acting when I wasdoing it, um, but it's it's a
hard place for women becausethey uh, there's not as many
roles for women.
You have to be a specific kindof woman often to get acting
roles and I just found Icouldn't handle that mold to be
(24:11):
stuffed in.
So I rather have the control,and I think that's probably why
I chose a director to write myfirst book about because she has
control over what's going on.
And it's certainly why I becamea director is because I could
get more control over what'sgoing on.
And it's certainly why I becamea director is because I could
get more control over thestories I was telling and the
way I was telling them.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
So in the business I'm assuming that you've come
across some famous people I havewho's your, who I mean just who
would stick out as a reallygood person to percent, because
sometimes reality is not thetruth, you know.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
But I mean in general , I mean I've met a lot of
people on film festival umcircuits.
Uh, there's a lot of reallygood people and I don't think
I've met anyone who's horrible.
I mean, I met Robert Redfordwhen I went to Sundance and he
was very gracious and veryinteresting.
(25:15):
Like he actually pulled measide and I had a conversation
with him, which you know I hadto get other people to take
pictures of so that my mom wouldbe so excited.
She was like a big.
Robert Redford fan, sure.
And yeah, I've met like I'vemet Sidney Pollack, I've met
Paul Haggis a lot of reallygreat directors, a lot of great
(25:40):
actresses who became directors,like Sarah Polly.
I don't know if you know SarahPolly.
She's like an amazing, amazingperson.
I think on the whole, peopleare nicer than we think, but
they're protective, because theyneed to be protective of
themselves, their time.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Right.
The perception of the outsideis oh, they're egotistical,
spoiled, blah, blah blah.
But it's not an easy business.
It's not, I'm sure there aresome dicks.
I mean I'm not going to.
Oh yes, I'm sure there are some.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Yes, there are some people that are truly awful,
truly awful Howard.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Howard is truly awful .
Speaker 2 (26:22):
And I don't necessarily think that's just
from the film industry, Likethere's there's truly awful
people in the pharmaceuticalindustry.
There's truly awful people, youknow, in NASCAR.
So I, but I think, I thinkpeople.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Overall, you would say more are nicer than they
outweigh the bad.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
I found that.
I found that yeah.
More open and giving than youwould.
You would like that you wouldthink.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Right, right, awesome , anything in the future, this
summer, that you're doing, or Imean, I know you're writing, but
anything coming up.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
I'm going well.
I'm working on a true crimeseries right now.
We're writing scripts for them,so I'll be doing that over the
summer and also, once my son isdone school, we'll go back to.
We have a cabin just outside ofToronto, so we'll be going to
our cabin for the summer, whichwill be really nice.
And then I'm actually I'm superexcited.
(27:19):
I'm going to Sweden for a weekfor a reunion, because I went to
school in Sweden and so I'mgoing back for a reunion, which
is pretty exciting yeah that'sgreat Wow.
It'll be a good summer, I think.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Great, so this has been fun.
I really appreciate you takingtime coming on and I wish you
the best in the future.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
I really appreciate you having me.
This has been a lot of fun andI like all your random questions
.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Thank you.
Thank you and I'll keep youupdated on the children.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Oh, god, please do.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
This has been an unmuted podcast with Pond Mutes.
What is your mindset when you're writing a sex scene?
I mean, are you like thinkingabout how you would like it?
I mean, you know?
Or how the audience wouldapproach it.
I mean, I always wondered, notjust your book but other books.
I'm like, what are theyapproaching that.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I mean that's interesting.
I'm happy to say that no onehas asked me this question yet,
so I'm very impressed You'relistening to Unmuted with Papa.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Mutes.
Welcome to Papa Mutes everybody.
Today my guest is Noelle Stark.
Noelle is an author.
Her debut novel, love CameraAction is on sale now.
Noelle also has a televisionand film background.
Has worked in almost everyposition in the film and TV
industry, both in front of andbehind the camera.
I'm thrilled to have her onNoelle.
Welcome to Poppin' Mutes.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
My pleasure.
So before we get to the bookwhich I've read, loved it,
Awesome.
I mean, I'm not saying thatjust because you're coming on, I
just sucked in.
Well, I mean the book you know,you got to, you want to read,
you put it down, you want toread, you put it down, you want
to know what's going on.
I mean the whole.
It worked for me anyway.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I'm glad to hear it yeah, that's great.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Uh, so, before we get to the book, what is your
background in the film and tvindustry?
Now, how deep were you, or areyou?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
um, pretty deep.
Uh, I started out as an actress.
Before then I was a singer, andthen I was an actress and I got
into TV behind the camera,because, you know, someone told
me that I should, I should writeand direct a short film and put
(01:37):
myself in it as a kind ofbusiness card, and, for whatever
reason, I didn't like that idea.
But I like the idea of making ashort film, and so I did this
short film that was based on aStrindberg short play and it
just exploded.
It went to Sundance, it went toTIFF and it launched me into
(01:57):
this career that I wasn't reallyexpecting.
So I've worked.
I mean, I'm Canadian, so it's amuch different industry than LA
, which is where I'm now.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Now let me interrupt you for a second.
Can I interrupt you for?
A second Because I'm a hugehockey fan, so who's your team?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Well, okay, so this is a funny story.
I was never brought up withhockey, so I don't actually have
a team, I know.
But what's funny about that ismy dad found out he was adopted
when he was around 50.
And it turns out that mygrandfather was in the original
six as a goalie and his name ison the Stanley Cup no way Joe.
(02:37):
Stark, joe Stark.
He played with the, he playedfor the Leafs and he played for
the Blackhawks.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Wow.
So, but I mean, you were born.
Where, though?
Which part of?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Canada.
So I was born in a small townnorth of Toronto.
So I don't know, for whateverreason, my dad watched football.
We didn't watch hockey.
But when I started kind oflooking into my own ancestral
background, I started watchinghockey myself.
So I don't actually have a team.
I kind of fluctuate between whoI think is interesting at the
(03:08):
moment.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
But who's your team?
Are you Flyers?
No, I'm from Pittsburgh, so I'mfrom Pittsburgh.
Right.
Yeah, I'm a Penguins fan, but Ilive in Flyer territory.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Okay, well, you have one of our big Canadians, right,
the Penguins have.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Crosby, crosby, yep, sidney Crosby, yeah, absolutely
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
All right.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Good to know, joe Stark, so go ahead.
Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt.
Oh, yeah, no problem.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
So working in TV in Canada is a much different beast
than in the States, and thereason for that is because the
pie is a lot smaller, theindustry is a lot smaller and so
you have to do a bunch ofdifferent jobs just to kind of
get by.
So I've been a writer forscripted, I've been a writer for
reality, I've been a director,I've been a producer, I've
(03:57):
worked in post, I've worked onkids shows.
I've worked on.
I had a lot, a lot of realityexperience on ghost shows or
renovation shows or true crime.
So I've worked across the boardin almost every capacity
casting, pa, story, producer,all all the things.
So when I wanted to, when Idecided to write this book, I
(04:21):
wanted to put it in the film andTV industry, because I knew it
quite well from a number ofdifferent angles, because I
didn't want to.
I didn't want to worry too muchabout world building, I wanted
to focus on the characters andthe love story without having to
worry too much about theenvironment.
So that's why I love cameraaction is set on a TV set.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yeah, no, but you have never written a novel
before.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
No.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
That had to be a challenge.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
I mean, you know, it was such a challenge.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I mean writing TV, writing scripts.
I mean it's a whole differentanimal right.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Really different, really different.
The reason why I wanted tostart writing a novel is because
when you're working on your ownprojects in TV and film, it
takes an enormous amount ofeffort from other people.
You have to convince otherpeople that your project is
worthy.
(05:15):
You have to get a huge amountof money to make anything, work
and time and effort from tons ofpeople, and so I kind of wanted
to do something that was justme.
I could work on my owndeadlines and work on my own
voice, and I found it actuallyreally relaxing.
Now, it was very tough, becauseit is a different animal and I
(05:38):
had to learn how to write in amuch different way, but because
I didn't have to do it foranybody else other than myself,
it was.
It was a pleasant experience,as pleasant as writing can be,
cause, honestly, it's alwaysterrible.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
How long from the time you started to write it to
the completion approximately?
Speaker 2 (05:58):
to the completion of the manuscript, or, to like,
till it's on the shelf till it'son the shelf okay, seven years,
seven years.
so I'm a single mom and I workin tv, so I stole time, uh, to
write this thing whenever Icould.
When I first moved to la, I waswriting on the bus because I
didn't have a car.
(06:19):
I was writing um in the seatswhile I was watching my kid in
his taekwondo class.
I was waking up at 530 in themorning just to get a half an
hour in, like I was stealingtime from everywhere and so it
took me a long time, and plus Iwas learning a whole new format.
So it took me about three,three and a half years to get it
to a place where I could submitit.
And then the finding the agent,finding the publisher, then the
(06:47):
publisher actually publishingit took another chunk of time as
well.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
So, yeah, it's like a movie.
You know, a whole movie processtakes a long time too.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah oh yeah, for sure a long time, um so all
right.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
So love camera action .
I read it.
I know what it's about, but forthe listeners, what is it about
?
Okay?
Speaker 2 (07:03):
okay it's about, but for the listeners, what is it
about, okay?
Okay, it's about a femaledirector who's been hired to
shoot this a couple of episodeson this TV show called the Demon
.
And she's been hired at thelast minute because the director
that was originally on the showgot fired because he said some
unfortunate things about the MeToo movement.
So the producers had to find awoman for PR reasons, someone
(07:26):
who is available and someone whoknows how to direct sex scenes,
which are not the easiestthings to direct.
So they find this woman, callie.
She's Canadian, they fly her in,she walks straight on set for
the first day, she has no timeto prepare and she smashes right
into the director ofphotography who she has kind of
an industry crush on becausehe's a genius.
(07:49):
He's considered a tyrant, buthe's also considered an artist
and she's so excited to workwith him and he doesn't really
want to have anything to do withher because he doesn't want to
be working with a newbie.
He doesn't want to work withanybody who has ideas or like
excitement.
He just wants to get throughhis day.
(08:11):
So as a result, you knowchemistry happens, but also
conflict happens and you knowhijinks ensues.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Yeah, it's been coming all back to me now.
Yeah, it's been coming all backto me now.
How much is based on, you know,fiction and or I should say
reality that you've come acrossstorylines and stuff?
I mean it's not based on truepeople, but I'm sure some of the
storylines or stuff you haveseen maybe yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
I mean some of the scenes for sure have happened to
me or have happened to friendsof mine or I've heard about.
There's a scene in the bookwhere the showrunner comes in
and decides to switch the entirescene.
They're about to shoot a scenein hell and he wants to switch
(09:03):
all the lighting from red toblue and nobody thinks this is a
good idea.
But you have to do what theshowrunner says, and he
discusses this without Calliebeing present, and I've
personally, like a producer,going above the director and
just going straight to thedirector of photography.
I've experienced that when theyjust kind of cut you out of the
(09:25):
decision-making because thereused to be a little bit of an
old boys club I mean I couldargue that it's still there, but
it's certainly less and so thathas happened to me in the past.
But the idea of the showrunnerchanging everything from red to
blue on a whim happens every dayin a bunch of different ways
(09:47):
and in a bunch of differentexamples.
Working in TV, you always haveto deal with people that are
above you who just have theseideas, where they say you know,
wouldn't it be great if actuallyeverybody was dressed in
medieval wear and you're like,yeah, yeah, even though this is
a sci-fi shoot we're doing youknow and you have to you have to
(10:10):
change everything you know sothat stuff happens all the time
now.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Have you thought about it as a movie?
I mean, as I'm reading it I'mlike this could be a movie, or
yeah I mean, I would love it tobe a movie.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Do you want to make it?
Speaker 1 (10:26):
You got to raise that money, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Yeah, yeah, of course it's everybody's, every
novelist's dream to turn it intoa movie.
I would love that for sure.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
So would this fall under the?
What genre?
Like romantic?
I mean it's got a lot of stuff.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
How would you categorize it?
I categorize it as a rom-com,as a steamy on the steamy side
rom-com.
How would you categorize it?
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, now that you say that, yes, I agree.
Yeah, I mean speaking of steamy.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Well, for me, yeah, it's stuff that I would like to
read.
It's stuff that I would like to.
I mean, it's weird because whenyou get to that point in the
book and in this book it happensabout I don't know 65% of the
way through, these charactersare already so alive, they're
having their own dynamics.
So I'm not sure if Iconsciously think of it as me in
(11:20):
that situation, but of courseyou know that plays into it
about what you find interestingor what you find funny or sexy
or whatever.
But I think what I, when Ithink about sex scenes and
writing them, I think about whatis surprising to the characters
.
Like how can they surprise eachother so that they are really
(11:43):
like it, like they really findit exciting and titillating and
all those kinds of things.
So that's very character basedfor me in terms of like the
context.
Like in the first time, you know, callie and Jory get together.
Callie's had enough, she'sexhausted, she's she's had so
many hard times on the, on theset and she just wants to turn
(12:04):
her mind off.
And Jory feels badly because heknows he's sort of the author of
some of those bad times, but hewants to make her feel better
and himself along the way,obviously, and so that makes for
a certain kind of scene and shegives over all kind of control.
The idea between these two isthat they're always jostling for
(12:26):
control on the set off the setin the bedroom outside, all the
time.
They're always jostling forcontrol on the set off the set
in the bedroom outside, all thetime they're jostling for
control.
And so in this particularsituation she, she hands it over
to him and says this is yourshow, you're running this.
And in, even as they go along,she, she kind of instinctually
keeps trying to pull it backbecause you can't help it, and
(12:48):
he's like no, no, no, no.
You said like this is my show,so we're running it, and so that
makes a particular kind ofscene, you know yeah no it's
great.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
I mean a lot of tension, a lot of like, yeah,
nice, yeah, um.
So the character of howard ishe semi or loosely based on
howard or um harvey weinstein?
Speaker 2 (13:12):
I mean there's aspects of harvey weinstein some
of it are are showrunners thatI've personally worked with like
I've never.
I've never worked with someonewho's that blatantly predatory,
um, but I know a lot of peoplethat have, and I've certainly
been in very uncomfortablesituations with my superiors,
(13:33):
from again, the lowest to thehighest, and I think that's what
you know part of the Me Toomovement was about was calling
these, these guys and their badbehavior and bringing it into
the light.
And this is part of theconflict in the book too,
because Jory is very cognizantof that.
He does not want to get intotrouble.
He, he's a good guy and I thinkit's he's worried how a good
(13:57):
guy can sometimes be easilymisconstrued as a bad guy.
And so he, he wants to makesure that he's kind of covered
covered his butt in a way, butat the same time it's hard
because he's really attracted toCallie.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
So that's what, that's what makes some of the
conflict between the two of themas well.
Yeah nice, yeah, well done, um,thank you what I mean if you
had to narrow it down for youngwriters or anybody that's
approaching writing.
What was the most challengingpart of writing this novel?
I mean?
For for me besides the story,you know you got to, like you
said, you mentioned all thoseother things.
What would a younger writer notbe aware of?
Speaker 2 (14:37):
I mean for younger writers.
I think that this idea thatinspiration is going to carry
you through is is baloney, likeit's, it's not going to you.
Inspiration might give you thekernel of the idea, it might
give you a few scenes here andthere, but it is not going to
carry you through and you cannotwait for it.
So you have to be consistent,you have to find time to sit
(15:02):
down and, even if it's terrible,you have to find time to write
a hundred words or 200 words,and you have to do it every day,
or five times a week, orwhatever you can imagine,
whatever you can manage, becauseyou know, lots of people say
you know, if I only had threeweeks, I would write the great
American novel.
Or if I only had time, or likewhen my kids are older, I'll
(15:25):
have time, had time.
Or like when my kids are older,I'll have time.
And it's like it's wrong, likeit won't, like I can tell you
right now I was, I'm, a singlemom.
I'll say it again and I onlysay it because there's a,
there's a lack of time whenyou're a single mom and also
when you're working in TV, causeit's a very intense gig, like
there were months when Icouldn't write at all, but the
(15:46):
consistency is what carried methrough and you have to just
keep at it.
No matter how bad it is, howuninspired you are, you just
have to keep at it.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Do you have the story intact not intact, but you know
they like to say the beginning,middle end or or do you come up
with the characters and say youknow, I'm going to write a
story about what I know in thebusiness, and as it goes along
you start to create other scenes.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
I mean because it's, it's not easy no, it's not easy,
and there's different types ofwriters.
There's people who plot likeeverything to the teeth before
they start writing.
And then there's this other you.
You know, in the romance worldwe call them pantsers, so you're
writing by the seat of yourpants, and so this book I was
very much a pantser.
(16:31):
I had my two characters and Iknew the setting and I went, and
when I started my second novelI was like I can't do that again
.
That was, it took a long time,it was too stressful.
So with my second novel I was alittle bit more of a plotter,
like I knew where I was going, Iknew where I was headed, I knew
what themes I wanted to explore, and so that helped me.
(16:55):
But but I also left the dooropen for changes, if, if they
occurred.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Now, is this a follow-up to Love Camera Action,
or that was my next question.
Do you have another?
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Well, I do have a follow up to Love Camera Action,
but this, this other one.
Someone actually gave me somereally good advice that said you
know, while your first book isout on submission, start a
completely different series,because if the first one doesn't
go, there's no point in wastingtime on the second.
Now that that may not be astrue anymore because of indie
(17:29):
publishing and and you can justpublish it yourself, um, but I
chose to write somethingcompletely different, that's
more in the speculative fictionworld, um and uh, which was a
whole new thing, because therewas a lot of science involved
and I'm not a big science person, I'm a terrible science person
actually.
(17:51):
But that said, I have startedthe second book in the series of
Love Camera Action, and thisone is based on the actors, on
the two lead actors.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Cool.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Awesome.
Looking forward to it.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Now, who is your publisher?
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Alcove Press, who is connected with Penguin.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Cool, Cool.
You prefer reading or writing.
This is my preference section,by the way.
I just give you a couple ofchoices of stuff to get the.
Let the reader or listeners getto know you.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Yeah, I mean I, yeah, I mean I, they're so, they're
so different.
I love reading.
I love reading so much I readall you have to love writing.
To really write, I mean yougotta love it right I don't, I
don't know, I like I don't love,I don't love writing like it's
painful, wow painful.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Wow, really.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Yeah, I'm compelled to write.
I'm compelled to write.
Okay, I mean it seems like I'mcompelled to make things.
I've made movies, I've madesongs, I've, you know, acted.
I'm compelled to create things.
So I'm compelled to writethings because I have an idea in
my head and I really want tosee it out in the world.
Do I enjoy the process?
(19:11):
Not particularly Like.
I think it's hard, and it'sit's.
It's hard on your heart, it'shard on your brain.
You feel like an idiot.
Most of the time it's a.
When it's out there in theworld, you're scared that no one
will like it.
It's not easy.
Sure so, yeah, it's more of acompulsion okay, um coffee or
tea oh, that's unfair, that's anunfair question come on?
Speaker 1 (19:33):
come on coffee or tea ?
Speaker 2 (19:34):
it depends on.
Oh, okay, if I'm on a desertisland, tea, because there's a
whole bunch of different typesof tea you can have, okay, but I
don't think in regular life Iwould be able to give up coffee.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Addiction is tough.
It's really tough what?
Speaker 2 (19:55):
would you pick?
Speaker 1 (19:58):
I'd go coffee.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
You'd go coffee.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
I'd go coffee, yeah.
Movies or TV.
I'm talking about watching.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Oh gosh, that's also really tough because I grew up
with movies and I have.
I'm a huge cinephile.
I've watched so many differenttypes of movies, but in the last
10 years movies have reallytaken a header because of the
way that they're kind of madeLike they don't make money
anymore, so there's it's hard toso that there's it's hard to
find independent movies, it'shard to find good movies.
(20:27):
It's just not the same.
Like you, you know, like whatit used to be such a culture of
watching movies, from you know,john Wayne to Godard.
You know like it was.
You had so much to choose from.
And now it's the same with TV.
Like you have so much to choosefrom.
Uh, with TV, there's so muchgoing on.
And it's the same with TV.
Like you have so much to choosefrom, uh, with TV, there's so
much going on, and it's such adifferent narrative structure.
(20:49):
Like you can stay with thesepeople for a really long time.
Um, what I find interesting ismy son.
He's 11.
He doesn't like watching moviesbecause he finds them too
intense.
Um, yeah, like he, he wants tobe in a TV show that carries on
for a long time, so that he can,he can, enjoy that world for a
long time.
(21:09):
But but movies.
I almost have to force him towatch movies because he finds
them too stressful, it's notinteresting.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
The big screen is just.
That's the ultimate way towatch it, obviously.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Oh, oh, my God.
It's such an amazing, anamazing space and and because we
don't go to the big screenanymore, we're just watching
them on our tv and and I findthat the you know, often the uh
cinematography isn't asinteresting as it used to be.
I mean, of course, there'sexamples where there's tons,
there's movies that are amazing,like I really enjoyed conclave.
(21:43):
That that was really fun.
I thought Enora was great.
It's a great indie movie, butthey're just so few and far
between now.
Sunrise or sunset.
I will say I will.
You know, I like the sunrisebecause usually I'm the only one
(22:06):
looking at it, but sunsets aremore beautiful.
They tend to be more beautiful.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
I like the sunrise because they're also quiet.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
They're quiet.
Living in LA, I've been able togo to the beach and watch the
sun actually set on the ocean acouple of times, which is an
unbelievable experience.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
I highly recommend it to anyone who can do it um,
yeah, yeah, I mean, I've seenthat in florida a number of
times.
You know, sunset and all thatstuff, uh, uh, pizza or pasta,
pasta definitely, or pasta.
Pasta Definitely.
Yes, there you go.
I like it, love it.
I mean, I like pizza too, butyou got to go pasta.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Yeah, there's so many things you can do with it and,
honestly, you know, having a kidaround, you're eating pizza all
the time, all the time, becauseit's all they eat.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Or grandkids.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Or grandkids.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yeah, beach or swimming pool Beach, yeah me too
.
I like both Dinner date orlunch date.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Dinner date.
There's more you can do atdinner.
Lunch dates are for friends,dinner dates are for
possibilities.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
There you go.
Sounds like a movie.
Sounds like a book, high heelsor flats.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Oh God, flats.
I have spent so much time inhigh heels in pain that I never
want to go back.
I have to go to a bar mitzvahin a couple weeks and I have to
wear high heels.
I'm dreading it.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Oh well, acting or directing.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Direct directing.
I I loved acting when I wasdoing it, um, but it's it's a
hard place for women becausethey uh, there's not as many
roles for women.
You have to be a specific kindof woman often to get acting
roles and I just found Icouldn't handle that mold to be
(24:11):
stuffed in.
So I rather have the control,and I think that's probably why
I chose a director to write myfirst book about because she has
control over what's going on.
And it's certainly why I becamea director is because I could
get more control over what'sgoing on.
And it's certainly why I becamea director is because I could
get more control over thestories I was telling and the
way I was telling them.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
So in the business I'm assuming that you've come
across some famous people I havewho's your, who I mean just who
would stick out as a reallygood person to percent, because
sometimes reality is not thetruth, you know.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
But I mean in general , I mean I've met a lot of
people on film festival umcircuits.
Uh, there's a lot of reallygood people and I don't think
I've met anyone who's horrible.
I mean, I met Robert Redfordwhen I went to Sundance and he
was very gracious and veryinteresting.
(25:15):
Like he actually pulled measide and I had a conversation
with him, which you know I hadto get other people to take
pictures of so that my mom wouldbe so excited.
She was like a big.
Robert Redford fan, sure.
And yeah, I've met like I'vemet Sidney Pollack, I've met
Paul Haggis a lot of reallygreat directors, a lot of great
(25:40):
actresses who became directors,like Sarah Polly.
I don't know if you know SarahPolly.
She's like an amazing, amazingperson.
I think on the whole, peopleare nicer than we think, but
they're protective, because theyneed to be protective of
themselves, their time.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Right.
The perception of the outsideis oh, they're egotistical,
spoiled, blah, blah blah.
But it's not an easy business.
It's not, I'm sure there aresome dicks.
I mean I'm not going to.
Oh yes, I'm sure there are some.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Yes, there are some people that are truly awful,
truly awful Howard.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Howard is truly awful .
Speaker 2 (26:22):
And I don't necessarily think that's just
from the film industry, Likethere's there's truly awful
people in the pharmaceuticalindustry.
There's truly awful people, youknow, in NASCAR.
So I, but I think, I thinkpeople.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Overall, you would say more are nicer than they
outweigh the bad.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
I found that.
I found that yeah.
More open and giving than youwould.
You would like that you wouldthink.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Right, right, awesome , anything in the future, this
summer, that you're doing, or Imean, I know you're writing, but
anything coming up.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
I'm going well.
I'm working on a true crimeseries right now.
We're writing scripts for them,so I'll be doing that over the
summer and also, once my son isdone school, we'll go back to.
We have a cabin just outside ofToronto, so we'll be going to
our cabin for the summer, whichwill be really nice.
And then I'm actually I'm superexcited.
(27:19):
I'm going to Sweden for a weekfor a reunion, because I went to
school in Sweden and so I'mgoing back for a reunion, which
is pretty exciting yeah that'sgreat Wow.
It'll be a good summer, I think.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Great, so this has been fun.
I really appreciate you takingtime coming on and I wish you
the best in the future.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
I really appreciate you having me.
This has been a lot of fun andI like all your random questions
.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Thank you.
Thank you and I'll keep youupdated on the children.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Oh, god, please do.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
This has been an unmuted podcast with Pond Mutes.
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