April 2, 2025 • 41 mins
The digital world has fundamentally changed how we make decisions, form opinions, and live our daily lives. Dr. Muhammad Atique, author of "Digitally Hijacked: The Age of Influence," reveals the startling truth behind how social media and AI have infiltrated nearly every aspect of our decision-making process.
From the products we purchase to the political views we adopt, algorithms and targeted content silently guide us toward predetermined outcomes. The conversation with Papamutes unpacks how our devices actively listen to our conversations, with AI algorithms capturing keywords that later manifest as eerily specific advertisements in our feeds.
Dr. Atique makes a crucial distinction between positive influence that inspires us and manipulation that fundamentally alters our behavior against our authentic selves. He introduces the concept of "digital fasting" – not as a complete rejection of technology, but as a mindful approach to using digital tools at appropriate times while remaining fully present in real-life moments and relationships.
The discussion explores how algorithm bias affects political discourse, the shift from degree-based to skill-based professional qualifications, and our evolving relationship with privacy in the digital age. Despite his concerns about technological overreach, Dr. Atique remains optimistic about achieving balance, drawing parallels to how societies adapted after previous industrial revolutions.
Ready to reclaim your digital autonomy? This episode provides practical wisdom for navigating the complex relationship between technology and authentic human experience. Listen now to discover how to use technology as your servant rather than becoming enslaved to it.
photos courtesy; m.atique
“THE OPINIONS EXPRESSED OR VIEWS EXPRESSED BY GUESTS DO NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT OR REPRESENT THOSE OF THE HOST;
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Papamutes (00:03):
You're listening to a Papa Mutes Unmuted Podcast.
Hi, welcome to Papa Muteseverybody.
Today, my guest is Dr MohammadAtique.
Dr Atik is the author ofDigitally Hijacked the Age of
Influence how Social Media andAI Are Reshaping Our Reality.
Doctor also holds a PhD indigital governance and has over
(00:25):
15 years of experience in themedia industry and academia.
He's also coming to us all theway from New Zealand, where it
is 11 am.
Welcome, doctor.
Dr. Atique (00:35):
Thank you very much and thank you for having me.
I feel really proud toconnecting from another corner
of the world to the US.
Papamutes (00:44):
So let's get right to it.
How is, in your opinion, socialmedia and AI reshaping public
opinion and behavior?
Dr. Atique (00:53):
Yeah, this is a very good question.
Now the technology iseverywhere In a whole day,
within a 24-hour, we play withthe technology.
So, like the social media is apoint that I want to discuss
from the marketing and thepublicity point of view from the
big businesses.
They want to sell theirproducts and the services and we
(01:17):
are their customers.
So how these things are aregoing to be there when there is
a much information pop up inyour mind Whenever you are using
social media.
You go outside, inside,especially from the digital
devices.
You watch a movie, you watchsome many play games or
something.
So there is some advertisements.
(01:38):
So this advertisement and somelike information bombardment,
this all is kind of a thingsthat want to give you some
options Buy this, do this, gothis, go there and have this
vacation, choose this color,choose this brand, so this kind
of a things when there is aninformation bombardment daily in
(02:02):
your life, from early morningto late night, because the
mobile and the devices they arein your hand.
So we cannot use our owndecisions, so all our decisions
are from something else.
They hijack our decision inreality.
Okay, because everybody ischoosing this brand, I will go
(02:23):
for this brand.
Everybody is choosing thiscolor, I will go for this brand.
Everybody is choosing thiscolor I will go for this one.
Everybody is going for thisvacations I will go for there.
Everybody is doing this kind ofa stuff and the business I will
also go there.
So in this way, social media ortechnology or devices, they are
changing our behavior, ourdecision to make who we are.
But after some time we realize,oh, that was not me, this is
(02:48):
not for me, or this device, I'mnot used to this, or this color
or this thing is not for me.
So I come here with the ideahow we can make the balance with
the social media, technologyand with our real life.
Papamutes (03:05):
So can you make a balance?
I mean everything you just saidI do.
I mean not just me, butespecially younger people.
You get up, you don't even lookat the newspaper anymore, you
look at your phone.
It's just a constantbombardment, well before we get
into AI.
(03:25):
My question was AI hasinfiltrated us now Do you think
that's good or bad?
Dr. Atique (03:33):
AI is really good for us.
Because of the AI, we can do somany things within a second GDP
or marketing things, and somany data or so many things we
can do within a seconds in theminutes.
Before we used to spend thetimes a couple of weeks actually
.
This is the thing is good, butthe artificial intelligence, ai
(03:55):
or algorithms they are givingyou some options from the
business and the marketing pointof view.
That is not good for us.
For example, whenever we aretalking with the technology or
we are talking to each other, soafter some time you will see
there is advertisement for youin your WhatsApp or might be in
Instagram or Facebook, so thealgorithms are catching your
(04:16):
words.
You are talking with yourspouse, your friends, you are
having your time, but thesedevices are catching your words.
Okay so, okay so ai algorithms.
Oh, this man is looking forthis color, this man have this
disease.
I should pop up.
Okay, so this medicine or thishospital or some doctor or
something.
So what is going on?
Ai is going to catch, or it hastotally taken over, your
(04:40):
privacy as well, uh, yourfreedom of so many things.
So these are the concepts weneed to take care of when you
are talking with somebody andthe pop-up of that advertisement
is coming to you, you getsurprised.
Oh wow, I was talking withsomebody else.
No, I got some advertisement,some publicity.
How they got it?
(05:00):
So this is the AI algorithmsthey are catching our words and
they are catching or hijackingour words and they are catching
or hijacking our privacy andthey are giving us more
information to do this, go thereand this and that.
Papamutes (05:12):
But that I mean in the wrong hands.
That could be not good.
That could be pretty lethal inthe opposite direction.
Dr. Atique (05:20):
Yeah.
So main purpose of the devicesis behind is the marketing and
the publicity.
Now, to maintain a quality ofyour products is not the matter.
Okay, you have plenty of choiceon the Amazon, ebay, target,
walmart you have so much choices.
Okay, the quality is not aproblem.
Before, there was a time youonly want to buy things from
(05:42):
German products.
There was a time you only wantto buy a Japanese products.
Okay, there was a time you onlywant to buy Japanese products
or something else like that.
Now the problem is acompetitive environment.
You can buy in a very lowbudget, very high budget.
So how to attract a customer?
So now, ai, artificialintelligence devices.
They are helping the companies.
Okay, this country and thisregion is choosing this color.
(06:05):
This region is more focused onthe iPhone.
This region is more focused onthis device.
Or they are having this kind ofa car they are buying, or they
are more inclined to likeInstagram or some reels.
So this, all the data is catchup when you terms with that
Agree, when download the app, orwhenever you open the website.
(06:27):
So you have to without reading.
Okay, nobody can read their 10pages of terms and the
conditions.
You say okay, cookies.
Okay, sell my privacy, sell myinformation what is my age,
where I am living and what I amdoing and which age or like what
diversify you are.
So this all data is going tostore somewhere and then the
(06:49):
third parties are going to sellyour data.
Okay, this is the place, thisis the country you need to do
your publicity advertisementthere for your products.
So this all is going on.
Actually, it's not bad from thebusiness point of view, from
the publicity point of view, butI come here.
Okay, this is really is for me,or I'm just following the trend
(07:12):
.
I often say only going to awashroom, this is our own
decision.
Oh, I must go to the washroom.
But what else?
In a 24 hour, we make thedecision to buy and the sell and
the wear or going to thewashroom.
But what else?
In a 24 hour, we make thedecision to buy and the sell and
the wear, or going to thecollege or this business.
This and that is all influencedfrom here and there.
Do you understand what I wantto say?
(07:34):
So only one decision is goingto a washroom is our own self.
Okay, I'm feeling like this.
All other your behaviors oryour decisions have been
hijacked from these devices orthis information, publicity,
advertisement.
This is that is why my booktitle is Digitally Hijacked the
Age of Influence.
(07:55):
Ok, you've been influenced fromsomebody and then you hijack,
and then you did this and aftersome time you realize, oh, it's
not me, it's not for me actually.
Or this place is not for me,this job is not for me, this
business is not for me.
So we have to analyze in a24-hour where I am going, who I
(08:15):
am and what I'm doing actually.
So these are the kind ofself-help or self-awareness
questions.
We need to make balance withthe technology and the
algorithms and so much.
Papamutes (08:27):
So being influenced and being manipulated, two
different things, right?
Dr. Atique (08:32):
Yeah, two.
Being influenced can be a goodthing.
For example, if I am an athlete, I am following some athlete
Athletes say, do the exercise orwalk every day for 30 minutes.
Okay, buy this food or eat thisfood or don't away from the
junk food or processed food,this is a good thing.
I've been influenced fromathletic.
(08:53):
Or if I I'm in a particularindustry and I'm following a
some person that is somehow itis really good, okay from the
sports point of view, or gettingyour target or something like
broadcasting or some artisticpoint of view, book reading and
so many things, this influenceis okay.
But the bad influence is thatwhen you do the things or make
(09:17):
the decision or your behavioralchange come okay with the
influence of something that isnot good for your body or your
whole life, that's become thenegative way.
So there is a positiveinfluence as well, negative as
well.
In America there was a time whenchildren, they used to have
more time in the front of atelevision.
Then in the 90s the video gamescame.
(09:39):
Always have a complaint and theschool have a complaint with
the parents.
Make them keep away from thescreen or keep put them into the
more with the playgrounds orsomewhere.
So parents used to say we arein the offices, we are in there.
We cannot control our kids whatthey are doing in the front of
televisions.
Then the television become inthe video games.
(10:00):
No, video game games has beenlike a change into our mobile
devices.
So parental thing, the childrenthing then the schools complain
are still there.
So technology is improving.
Papamutes (10:12):
We we also need to evolve ourselves by making
there's some balance there sothere's good and bad, um, but I
even hate to bring it up, butthe political, political side if
you really get sucked in, youcan get one side of the story
constantly, or one viewpointconstantly and not the other
(10:33):
side, and it becomes like thisbattle, you know, like all
you're doing is arguing withsomebody you don't know online
or something about politics, andit's that's a bad thing.
I mean that's, it's annoying.
Dr. Atique (10:46):
Yeah, from the political perspective.
For example, the Twitter has abig big story.
Twitter's okay, the Twitteralgorithms show something else.
On election day, okay, it's abig story, especially in context
to the American reference whenthere is elections or electoral
or so many happening.
So there is a total algorithmthat is showing top 10 stories.
(11:07):
Who is winning, who is losing,who is talking about that?
But we also call it thealgorithm bias or machine
learning bias.
Sometimes the machine can pickspecific colors, sometimes the
machine can pick some specifickeywords and they can say, okay,
this person, person A, is goingto win this thing, person B is
(11:27):
sustaining on these states, orsomething like that.
So from the political point ofview, yeah, there is a big bias
in the machine learning, in thedevices.
So you say, oh, the top 10 issomething else, but the ground
reality is something different.
So then the algorithms and allof this, our social media things
, they want to take you onedecision Okay, this is the
(11:50):
person, he is the Mr Perfect,okay.
And or this is the Mr Perfect,like a politician point of view,
or this is the good brand.
So when I show you a data thatcan be manipulated by
intentionally, or from a machinelearning or from algorithms.
You say, oh, data is ascientific, approved data.
(12:11):
I should buy this phone or Ishould go for this political
party or I should go for thiskind of because the data is, and
how the data has beencalculated from the website, the
cookies, the application whenyou download it.
Okay, your privacy, your allthe things, gender, age, group,
what you do, where you live.
So you agree with the terms andthe conditions.
(12:32):
Okay, so this phenomena is notnew.
Last 10 years we are used to bewith this.
Okay, so then this data isgoing to be collected and then
they will say, oh,scientifically, 75% people
choose this, 85% people eat this.
There was a survey somewhere, Ithink, in the United States,
how success people live In thesuccess people.
(12:54):
There was one data Some peoplethey found from the millionaire
they eat fish every day.
Okay, so do you think so Ishould also eat fish every day?
That is a really trickyquestion so I put a data.
I I make something like a survey, online survey or something how
successful people, successfulpeople live or what they do.
(13:16):
The fish was a very common itemthere.
Everybody more than 90 percenttake on in the food.
Okay, that was, that was not aseafood, there was only a fish.
Okay, so then intentionally Iwill think, I think I want to be
successful in my some part inbusiness setting or project or
education or somewhere indifferent settings.
(13:37):
So I should eat fish every day.
Because I got a data fromAmerica that most successful
people they used to have a fishin every day their dish.
Then I realized, oh, I can'tafford to eat the fish every day
.
I'm more vegetarian person orsomething.
So this is the phenomena isgoing on.
We need to understand what thealgorithm is saying, what the
(14:01):
analysis or survey or that blahblah is saying, but to
manipulate the things from themarketing point of view, from
the publicity point of view,from the political point of view
, they are also right.
They are putting you a data.
This is a percentage, ok, tick,tick, tick, or decided by
yourself.
But that behavioral change, wecan't stay.
(14:22):
If 85% is in another direction,I will automatically go to that
line, that is, with 85%successful or something genius
rate or something like that.
So in this way, my decision hasbeen hijacked, even
scientifically, even from thealgorithms point of view or even
(14:43):
from the socially point of view.
Before that, my decision washijacked from my grandma.
My grandma say oh, use thissomething like a remedy in the
home, don't go for the doctor.
So grandma is still therewaiting for my decision.
She says why he or she is notlistening for me.
I have 80 years of experience inliving in different places.
(15:06):
So there is a challenge.
Either should I go for ascientific rating or analysis or
I should wait for my grandpawisdom or advice or something
from the family perspective.
Okay, so we usually we talkabout that.
Oh, my family trend is this inmy family we usually buy this
item, or we have a habit orhaving a vacation or some place
(15:29):
Okay, hawaii or something likeFlorida or something like that.
So there is a family trends,traditional point of view.
There are some scientific.
So then there is a T20, youknow there is a tennis match in
your mind is going on.
Should I go with my familywisdom or culture, the values I
am following, with somedifferent thoughts or action, or
(15:51):
should I go for the bombardmentof information?
But the information always takeyour decision because it's
giving you a scientific,scientifically, some improvement
, like 85%, 75%.
So there were some examples.
I want to tell your audiencethat what actually is going on.
But at the end, grandpa andgrandma, they are also waiting
(16:13):
for their own wisdom as well.
So, with the striking, with thebalance, with the technology or
something, and their own wisdom, 80 years or 90 years of age.
Papamutes (16:24):
It's a good analogy.
What is an echo chamber?
Dr. Atique (16:28):
Yeah, echo chamber is a kind of a terminology we
use in our digital things in ascientific way.
Echo chamber is yourpre-existing belief.
Pre-existing belief is that, um, I should eat this.
I am a vegetarian or my familywas a vegetarian, and if I eat
(16:50):
this kind of a things thatpre-existing belief this food is
more good for my health.
Okay, so that these, or likewhen we do, on that specific day
friday is a good day for me, orsunday is a good day for me, or
Sunday is a good day for methese are your pre-existing
beliefs.
You take from your heritage,your family, setting family or
cultural values, or somethinglike that.
(17:12):
So then, when there is atechnology, is there your
pre-existing beliefs are goingto be challenged?
In the previous question, wewere talking about our cultural
values or something with ourgrandpa, or something like that.
Then when the technology givesyou some percentage, some
surveys, some analysis, thenyour pre-existing beliefs can be
(17:34):
changed.
For example, if we say that ifyou study from a Harvard, okay,
so you have a 99% chance of asuccess in your life, harvard or
MIT or something like that.
So, like, then I will show yousome survey as well as the
people, the analysis orsomething so pre-existing the
(17:56):
echo chamber is going to bechanged then.
So might be my family.
They used to have a study inthe business or like that kind
of things.
Then I go for a medical studyor I change something from my
family setting and the trend andthe values from the scientific
point of view.
Again, coming to the technology,technology will recommend you
(18:17):
from early morning to late night.
So that is going to be changeyour pre-existing belief.
Ok, so that belief can bepositive, can be negative.
So here we need to come withthe analysis of our critical
thinking that, okay, this is mybody, this is my life and how I
can make balance with this.
This is the main question weare striking, but at the end we
(18:38):
always go back to the basics.
There is a very good key termwhen you need a good new idea,
read an old book.
Can you understand this?
Even this is very, very correct,even in 2025,.
If you need a good new idea,read an old book.
We always go back to the basicsFor the health things you want
(19:00):
to improve.
The health devices are there.
They are rating.
Okay, you, you walk for 30minutes today like three, three
thousand meters or steps.
You have been completed.
But, going back to the basics,I need to have more exercise, I
need to have more like a naturalfood or something.
I need to have a fresh breathe.
Going back to the basics, okay.
(19:20):
So this is the key, key thingwe always analyze whenever we,
because you want to takeyourself out from that rush,
that information or thatinformation overload or
something that making theconfusions to you.
The nature is always in a slowway process.
Real life is always a boringlife, okay, you fed up with your
(19:43):
spouses or with your children,with your job.
After some time, the real lifeis a boring, but the media and
the devices they are giving youthe best of the best option okay
best of the best things isthere.
But you say, oh, I'm stuck withthis boring assignment and my
friend is having a vacation andon the hawaii or on the Florida
(20:03):
beaches, I am stuck with thisone.
So what did the technology issaying to you you miss something
, fear of missing out, you misssomething.
Okay, the FOMO come to you.
Then you want to be rushed.
You want to jump to anotherbusiness, another job, or
another setting of whatever youare doing, or another setting of
whatever you are doing.
You want to jump Becausesomebody say to you, oh, your
(20:24):
colleague, they are like faraway, far like fast and in a
progressive way, or somethingfrom you.
So then you feel fear ofmissing out.
So there was so many conceptsthat we need.
We are in the daily life, weare interaction with that,
positively, negatively.
Papamutes (20:45):
That was actually my next question FOMO, fear of
missing out, but you kind ofgone over that.
Let me ask you this I hadsomeone on a couple episodes ago
who was a journalist for TV.
You know sports ESPN, you knowthat whole scene.
You know sports ESPN, you knowthat whole scene and I asked her
this question you know someonegoing to college now to be in,
(21:12):
do you need?
The question basically was doyou need a degree for journalism
?
Her answer was no.
Do you think you need a degreeto get into journalism today?
Yeah, it's a very, very goodquestion.
Dr. Atique (21:22):
Actually, I also did two degrees in journalism and
communication, and I also workedfor a television for a long
time, yeah, Okay.
Now the hard thing is that nowthe degrees are old fashioned,
now, okay, I'm telling you, I'mrepeating, now the degrees are
old fashioned, now that thethings have very rapidly changed
(21:44):
into the skill, from degrees tothe skill.
Okay, learn this skill and ifthis skill is is very much in in
a, in a, in a time way, forexample, the ai is is taking
everything, now the podcastingspeech, to the right you, you
give the script to your softwareor something, and software will
(22:05):
make your clone, your voice,and that thing is going to be
changed.
Okay, the podcasting culture orthe podcast device, the machine
has taken this ability from youto the device and device will
do for you.
Okay, so things are rapidlychanging with the technology as
well.
So the degree of the relevant isno longer does it matter?
(22:26):
But from the medical point ofview, yes, you need that degree,
you need to be from there.
There are some profession theengineering and some, I think,
some for hardcore, hardcoreprofession still need a degree.
For example, if you want to bea lawyer, you need some license
to do that one.
Okay, From the journalism andthe social science point of view
(22:47):
, in my own experience, becauseI came to the United States as
well and I've been to living indifferent countries, the
journalism, social science,political science, international
relations or some self-helpstudies or something like
psychology or something likethat.
these are the self-improvement.
Whenever you read more, youhave a practical experience, you
learn and you do this, so youimprove yourself.
Papamutes (23:11):
So, in a hypothetical world, you're in charge and you
can eliminate social media andgo back to prior to social media
, whenever that was, whateverthe date is.
But you know, would you do that?
Do you think we were better offwithout all this bombardment
(23:31):
Although we were bombarded withTV and stuff, but I mean it's so
thick Would you, if you were incontrol of the world, you know,
just get rid of social media?
Dr. Atique (23:43):
Yeah, for that one.
For example, going back 20 or25 years ago, that was quite
balanced with the things youjust only need to send the email
, or that was the culture, andmore with the face-to-face
relationship.
Okay, you try to meet with theperson with the face-to-face.
Papamutes (24:01):
You want to enjoy the cup of coffee you want to enjoy
the cup of coffee.
Dr. Atique (24:04):
You want to enjoy the food.
You want to enjoy theatmosphere.
You want to enjoy the book withthe real cover and some special
fragrance in the old book.
You want to enjoy the things.
So that's the thing I think weare missing now, when we are
putting more time on the devicesso we cannot enjoy the real
(24:25):
life taste.
I want to meet with the Bob.
I want to enjoy the coffee withthe Bob.
I want to feel the texture.
Papamutes (24:32):
I mean, anybody could read a book.
Who would this book be for?
Dr. Atique (24:36):
Yeah, more specifically, because I belong
to a journalism and the mediabackground, so I was teaching
there.
I have this experiences andevery, every day or every walks
of life, like I play with thedevices and I read about the
media, I write, I wrote thearticles or I am writing and I
am in the broadcasting as well.
So the particular is is thatthe person, the media tech
(25:00):
person okay, the people who wantto make the balance with the
technology and the real life,technology and the society, the
media person, the journalismperson, the tech person, like
they want to have a thing thatif they spend like eight to 10
hours in a day in front of thetechnologies and then they get
bored, they want to havesomething balanced with their
(25:21):
real life or with the technologyor something like that.
So, like book is.
For now, this is the mainconcern that how we can make the
balance with the algorithmtechnology and with the real
life and how we can taste thethings around us, how we can
feel the environment, how we canhave a good food and we can
(25:42):
like share our feelings as well.
So the technology, the thingsthat we cannot share, the
feelings actually, the feelingsis always like having a man to
man and human to humanconnections.
So this is the idea behind thisbook Digitally Hijack the Age of
Influence.
And like it is for everybody,like it's a kind of a self help
book, so everybody can read itand improve it.
(26:03):
And then like it's a kind of aself-help book, so everybody can
read it and improve it.
And then like they can comewith their own decision, with
their own mind, with their ownidea like how, where the
technology is going and where Iam standing, where are my own
decision, that I wholly take incharge of my own decision?
This is real me or somebodyinfluence on me?
(26:23):
This is the main question toaddress and I have address in
this book.
Papamutes (26:29):
You speak about digital fasting.
How long I mean?
Obviously you know fasting, weunderstand what that means, but
how long do you recommend?
I mean, a day would seem likeforever for some people.
Dr. Atique (26:47):
Yeah, actually, right now is a fasting month for
me.
I am Muslim, so I'm having likefasting.
This is a month of fastingRamadan from spiritual point of
view yeah, spiritual fasting OK.
And the second is that, ok, thefasting.
(27:10):
I come with the idea thatdigital fasting is a terminology
that, ok, we usually have a 24hour in a day, ok, so 24 hour we
need to divide is like eighthour is for a sleep, eight hour
is for our work, business,education or something, and
eight hour is for our family.
So we have divided three things.
(27:32):
Okay, sleep mean health and ourfinance, our work, our business
setting for eight hours andeight hour is for family.
If you put this three pizza,three part of your like in a
whole day.
So we want to have a balance inthat.
So digital fasting is that okay.
When you are doing yourassignment it can be work,
(27:54):
business take the help of atechnology.
Technology is your best servant.
Take the help from thetechnology, do it your best.
Okay, learn about it, crush itand make the best from that
skill software.
Whatever you are using, when youare with your family setting or
when you are in your own thing,you are playing the things.
(28:14):
I have seen when you go for thegym, when you are going for a
walking, the people are stillwith their devices or something.
So you can't make the things.
Or you are on the phone and youare pulling some liver or you
are pulling something in the gym, so what you are doing,
actually, and another person iswaiting.
When he will get free, then Iwill want to have the exercise.
(28:36):
So what you are doing with thedevices, you make something
mixed with that and somethinghappen negative with you.
Or you want something like that, so when you are eating, or you
want something like that, sowhen you are eating, try to eat
full, try to enjoy the food.
Okay, this is digital fastingmean.
Do focus on the one thing at aone time.
Okay, when you are doingsomething in the assignment time
(28:59):
, take help from the technologychat, gtp or DeepSeek or
whatever the technology is there.
When you are eating something,when you are doing the exercise,
then focus on that and enjoythe texture, enjoy the
atmosphere.
Do with the people.
You often see people want tosocialize in this technological
era but you are keep busy inyour phone.
Ok, somebody come close to you.
(29:20):
You did not give a spacebecause you are busy in the
phone, or you are having aheadphone or something, so
people.
Next person want to.
Yeah, so you are still thereActually the problem is that,
yeah, yeah, you are pointingthere.
The problem is that then theperson next to you is not value
for you.
The person who is thousands ofmiles in a fantasy.
(29:42):
He is more value to you.
This thing we need to realize.
The person next to me or nextdoor neighbor, he can be a very
good friend to me.
We can have a barbecue in ourlawn or in our area or something
like that.
So this is the thing we need tounderstand if you want to
socialize and then keep respectto the human, to human
communication, and make thethings in a way, even in the
(30:05):
public setting, when you go fora dinner with your family or
friends, the things in a way,even in the public setting, when
you go for a dinner with yourfamily or your friends, okay,
hold the family as you arewaiting for your dishes.
You are keep opening with themobile messages.
You are keep there, okay, andeven the meal is there.
Meal is getting cold.
Then you say, oh, I don't wantto eat.
What happened?
You are keep busy in themessages.
You are keep busy withsomething else and the food is
(30:26):
still there.
Food is waiting, okay, thedelicious.
Then you say, oh, it is getcold, I don't want to eat, or
I'm not hungry enough, so sothese are the things.
And then you complain about thethings.
Okay, I'm not enjoying the life,or I'm not having the taste, or
I'm not having this and that sothe reason is that at that
particular time you did notfocus on that thing at the at
(30:47):
the moment, at that time,physically you were not focus on
that thing at the moment Atthat time, physically you were
present there, but mentally youwere somewhere else.
It happens in our officesetting, in our business setting
, in our education setting oreven in the seminar.
You book a seminar from TonyRobbins, but you are still there
in your mobile devices, you aretalking with there.
(31:07):
You spend thousands of dollarsto attend the seminar.
Actually, that was the time youget socialized, you get the
other person's opinion in theface-to-face, because whenever
we write something, whenever wesay on the devices, we we kept
so much like a consciously wewrite.
But when you are face-to-wordyou want to express your a
(31:28):
hundred percent because youtrust the other person.
But when I am recording, when Iam writing something, then I
need to be very much consciousabout, because then my audience
is different, then my messagewill be a different way.
But when you meet with someperson face to face, in a family
setting, in a business setting,then you want to be real, you
want to be honest Okay, okay,this is my product I want to
(31:50):
sell, this is my business orthis is my stuff, or this I do
and who I am and this is thething I want to keep you on
board, or something like that ina business setting, on a social
setting, dinner, or so manythings.
So then in the really youbecome different person and on
the devices you are very muchconscious about your texting,
(32:10):
your keywords.
You don't speak face-to-face.
Then you are the second personaof your personality.
You become so humble, youbecome so sophisticated, but in
couple of meetings with a newperson, new friend or like a
partner or something, you aredifferent, but on the devices,
you are very much different.
So these are the key lenses weneed to learn how we behave on
(32:33):
the technology and how we behaveface to face Huge difference.
Papamutes (32:37):
Excellent.
Do you think that AI will getso good in the near future that
they're actually recreatingpeople completely?
You know, I mean just notmentally.
I mean I'm talking robots.
You know, instead of me goingto work, they said my robot.
(32:59):
I mean it sounds fictional, butit's so like AI is so rapidly
moving.
Do you think in the future thatis possible?
Dr. Atique (33:08):
Yeah, actually it's a very good million dollar
question.
Actually, everybody's afraidthat then where I will fall,
where my skill will go.
Recently I was in China in ahotel.
So when somebody knocked at thedoor or I got the voice, there
was a robot to serve me.
Yes, sir, there is your, hereare your bottles.
(33:33):
And it was a small robot aboutthree feet and there was a one
cup and I think I Asked them tosend me some more stuff.
And there was a bell and therewas a report.
Who served at at my door?
And it's quite common, even inthe restaurant, when you need an
extra spoon, pan plate or somestuff, so the board will hang
(33:54):
here and there.
Okay, so it is becoming quitecommon in China as well.
Okay, and I saw there was a oneposting even, I think it was in
California somewhere.
Don't hire people, okay, buythis software to solve your
problem, so, okay.
So what happened?
Uh, for example, in americanhistory, and especially in the
(34:17):
1960s and 70s, when there was amore industrial revolution, auto
cars were more common, therewere more industry there.
So people also lost their job.
When, then, what we did?
We, we make some balance there.
When there is a technologytechnology, after some time it
gets saturated.
When it is saturated, we alwaysfeel after that no, we are
human being, we want to exist onthis planet or somewhere else.
(34:41):
So then we try to think thebalance.
Now, our privacy is going to belost.
There is no privacy anymore.
Okay, where you are living, howmuch you earn, your gender, all
the things from cookies andapplication.
They are taking your privacyand they are selling.
After some time, when this willbe a more saturated thing, then
we will go back to the basics.
(35:02):
We will make more privacy laws.
We will make some more termsand conditions.
No, okay, 50% gender, 50%technology.
We will make this kind of arules and regulation or hiring
the people.
Okay, 50% should be the maleand female.
Okay, gender balance and 50% wewill go with some software
technology or something.
We will keep the balance.
(35:22):
No, this is the boiling stageof the technology.
Technology is boiling.
Okay, we are a little afraid.
Oh, they are going.
Little afraid.
Oh, they are going to take,they are going to replace me.
Okay, digital transformation.
In my book, in the last chapter.
I talk about the digitaltransformation, how the business
they are going to be revolved,how the technology is going to
be revolved from the businesspoint of view.
So then we will make some rulesand regulation globally or some
(35:46):
like, uh, nationally orsomething like that, to keep the
balance.
That, okay, there should besome human existence, there
should be some technology and,and in some, in what part and
what percentage we can use thetechnology.
What might be in the educationsetting?
We will make some rules andregulation.
Okay, you can take the chat,gtp or this 25, but the 75%
(36:08):
should be your own real content,something we will make like
this.
As I am reading and thinking, wewill go back to the basics.
Actually, we will again valueor we will give some percentage.
We will give some reward tohave a face-to-face assignments.
More, we will give some like a,just like the, the western food
(36:29):
or in the west, when there wasso much processed food, we went
back to the organic food.
Then we can see the logo on our, on our bottles or our food
products organic 80 percent, 90percent, organic 10 percent,
process, less sodium, less likethis kind of a stuff.
What happened we?
We went back to the basics.
Actually, we went back to theorganic food, from the junk food
(36:51):
to the organic one.
So then, all the companies theyutilize okay, we can make
something with the things thatwe should not damage our health,
we should not damage our values.
So there will be a time withthat rules and regulation.
But at this time, when we aretalking, bob, with you and with
your audience, we are a littleafraid, not little, actually,
consciously.
(37:12):
We are afraid becauseeverything is going to be
regarded and we are thinkingabout our self-privacy.
Oh my God, I was looking forthis.
And the pop-up message is therebuy from this store.
Okay, 90% discount.
Papamutes (37:26):
Yes, like that, oh yeah, yes, like, like that, oh
yeah, like it's wild.
Um, so where can the listenersuh, I mean obviously amazon, but
where else you have a websiteor something that they can go
purchase the book?
And is there a, uh, digitalversion, you know, an audio
version?
Dr. Atique (37:47):
right now there is like an e-version is available
on Amazon and my publisher Wipsand Stock.
They are from Oregon publisherWips and Stock and I will share
the links with you and then theycan buy.
The book is availableeverywhere.
It's available on the Balls andNoble as well, vip and Stock
(38:11):
and they are also available onAmazon.
All that Target, walmart,everywhere my book is available.
Papamutes (38:16):
Awesome.
Well, this has been great.
I mean, I learned a lot.
I know there's a lot more inthe book.
I recommend reading the wholething.
It's so much stuff with socialmedia.
It's not just one thing, it'sjust bombardment and you have to
balance it.
Ai coming in now.
(38:37):
It's a great idea, great book.
Do you have any ideas foranother one, a follow-up?
Dr. Atique (38:46):
In this book I talk about the social media and the
digital transformation.
The next book, I want to talkabout how the technical
revolution is going on and howthe different countries, the
companies, they will make therules and regulations something
(39:08):
from the point of view as ananswer for the solution of this,
all the problems.
The next book I will writeabout that a digital
transformation, ai, okay, as agood friend of a human, and how
we can make better benefit fromthat.
In this, the first part, I talkabout some awareness thing.
Okay, okay, awareness and whatis going on, what is the
(39:31):
transformation of one?
In the next book I will try tocome up with more, better idea.
The last question was reallygood how we can make it the
betterment for the humanity fromthe rules, regulations, just
like from the European.
There is a lot GDPR, there is alot of the privacy and the
content and so many thingsintellectual property or, like
your privacy, your terms andcondition.
(39:53):
So next book, I will try towrite about how that technology
can be your best friend or bestservant and how the companies
and the companies, they canbetter get the advantage from
them by making the balance withthe human existence and the
technology and robotic andsoftware also how they can make
it more balanced in a way thatkind of a stuff.
(40:15):
So these are in in my mindexcellent, excellent.
Papamutes (40:18):
That's a great follow-up.
Sounds wonderful.
Uh, doctor, I really appreciateyou coming on all the way from
new zealand thank you.
Dr. Atique (40:25):
Thank you very much for having me with this really,
really, uh, good idea and very,very good questions you asked.
I hope your audience will likeit and they will share their own
thoughts as well.
So I will try to reply theirquestions as well and their
comments that how we can makebetter use of technology with
the balance of humanity as well.
Papamutes (40:47):
This has been an Unmuted Podcast with Papa Mutes.
Bye.
You're listening to a Papa Mutes Unmuted Podcast.
Hi, welcome to Papa Muteseverybody.
Today, my guest is Dr MohammadAtique.
Dr Atik is the author ofDigitally Hijacked the Age of
Influence how Social Media andAI Are Reshaping Our Reality.
Doctor also holds a PhD indigital governance and has over
(00:25):
15 years of experience in themedia industry and academia.
He's also coming to us all theway from New Zealand, where it
is 11 am.
Welcome, doctor.
Dr. Atique (00:35):
Thank you very much and thank you for having me.
I feel really proud toconnecting from another corner
of the world to the US.
Papamutes (00:44):
So let's get right to it.
How is, in your opinion, socialmedia and AI reshaping public
opinion and behavior?
Dr. Atique (00:53):
Yeah, this is a very good question.
Now the technology iseverywhere In a whole day,
within a 24-hour, we play withthe technology.
So, like the social media is apoint that I want to discuss
from the marketing and thepublicity point of view from the
big businesses.
They want to sell theirproducts and the services and we
(01:17):
are their customers.
So how these things are aregoing to be there when there is
a much information pop up inyour mind Whenever you are using
social media.
You go outside, inside,especially from the digital
devices.
You watch a movie, you watchsome many play games or
something.
So there is some advertisements.
(01:38):
So this advertisement and somelike information bombardment,
this all is kind of a thingsthat want to give you some
options Buy this, do this, gothis, go there and have this
vacation, choose this color,choose this brand, so this kind
of a things when there is aninformation bombardment daily in
(02:02):
your life, from early morningto late night, because the
mobile and the devices they arein your hand.
So we cannot use our owndecisions, so all our decisions
are from something else.
They hijack our decision inreality.
Okay, because everybody ischoosing this brand, I will go
(02:23):
for this brand.
Everybody is choosing thiscolor, I will go for this brand.
Everybody is choosing thiscolor I will go for this one.
Everybody is going for thisvacations I will go for there.
Everybody is doing this kind ofa stuff and the business I will
also go there.
So in this way, social media ortechnology or devices, they are
changing our behavior, ourdecision to make who we are.
But after some time we realize,oh, that was not me, this is
(02:48):
not for me, or this device, I'mnot used to this, or this color
or this thing is not for me.
So I come here with the ideahow we can make the balance with
the social media, technologyand with our real life.
Papamutes (03:05):
So can you make a balance?
I mean everything you just saidI do.
I mean not just me, butespecially younger people.
You get up, you don't even lookat the newspaper anymore, you
look at your phone.
It's just a constantbombardment, well before we get
into AI.
(03:25):
My question was AI hasinfiltrated us now Do you think
that's good or bad?
Dr. Atique (03:33):
AI is really good for us.
Because of the AI, we can do somany things within a second GDP
or marketing things, and somany data or so many things we
can do within a seconds in theminutes.
Before we used to spend thetimes a couple of weeks actually
.
This is the thing is good, butthe artificial intelligence, ai
(03:55):
or algorithms they are givingyou some options from the
business and the marketing pointof view.
That is not good for us.
For example, whenever we aretalking with the technology or
we are talking to each other, soafter some time you will see
there is advertisement for youin your WhatsApp or might be in
Instagram or Facebook, so thealgorithms are catching your
(04:16):
words.
You are talking with yourspouse, your friends, you are
having your time, but thesedevices are catching your words.
Okay so, okay so ai algorithms.
Oh, this man is looking forthis color, this man have this
disease.
I should pop up.
Okay, so this medicine or thishospital or some doctor or
something.
So what is going on?
Ai is going to catch, or it hastotally taken over, your
(04:40):
privacy as well, uh, yourfreedom of so many things.
So these are the concepts weneed to take care of when you
are talking with somebody andthe pop-up of that advertisement
is coming to you, you getsurprised.
Oh wow, I was talking withsomebody else.
No, I got some advertisement,some publicity.
How they got it?
(05:00):
So this is the AI algorithmsthey are catching our words and
they are catching or hijackingour words and they are catching
or hijacking our privacy andthey are giving us more
information to do this, go thereand this and that.
Papamutes (05:12):
But that I mean in the wrong hands.
That could be not good.
That could be pretty lethal inthe opposite direction.
Dr. Atique (05:20):
Yeah.
So main purpose of the devicesis behind is the marketing and
the publicity.
Now, to maintain a quality ofyour products is not the matter.
Okay, you have plenty of choiceon the Amazon, ebay, target,
walmart you have so much choices.
Okay, the quality is not aproblem.
Before, there was a time youonly want to buy things from
(05:42):
German products.
There was a time you only wantto buy a Japanese products.
Okay, there was a time you onlywant to buy Japanese products
or something else like that.
Now the problem is acompetitive environment.
You can buy in a very lowbudget, very high budget.
So how to attract a customer?
So now, ai, artificialintelligence devices.
They are helping the companies.
Okay, this country and thisregion is choosing this color.
(06:05):
This region is more focused onthe iPhone.
This region is more focused onthis device.
Or they are having this kind ofa car they are buying, or they
are more inclined to likeInstagram or some reels.
So this, all the data is catchup when you terms with that
Agree, when download the app, orwhenever you open the website.
(06:27):
So you have to without reading.
Okay, nobody can read their 10pages of terms and the
conditions.
You say okay, cookies.
Okay, sell my privacy, sell myinformation what is my age,
where I am living and what I amdoing and which age or like what
diversify you are.
So this all data is going tostore somewhere and then the
(06:49):
third parties are going to sellyour data.
Okay, this is the place, thisis the country you need to do
your publicity advertisementthere for your products.
So this all is going on.
Actually, it's not bad from thebusiness point of view, from
the publicity point of view, butI come here.
Okay, this is really is for me,or I'm just following the trend
(07:12):
.
I often say only going to awashroom, this is our own
decision.
Oh, I must go to the washroom.
But what else?
In a 24 hour, we make thedecision to buy and the sell and
the wear or going to thewashroom.
But what else?
In a 24 hour, we make thedecision to buy and the sell and
the wear, or going to thecollege or this business.
This and that is all influencedfrom here and there.
Do you understand what I wantto say?
(07:34):
So only one decision is goingto a washroom is our own self.
Okay, I'm feeling like this.
All other your behaviors oryour decisions have been
hijacked from these devices orthis information, publicity,
advertisement.
This is that is why my booktitle is Digitally Hijacked the
Age of Influence.
(07:55):
Ok, you've been influenced fromsomebody and then you hijack,
and then you did this and aftersome time you realize, oh, it's
not me, it's not for me actually.
Or this place is not for me,this job is not for me, this
business is not for me.
So we have to analyze in a24-hour where I am going, who I
(08:15):
am and what I'm doing actually.
So these are the kind ofself-help or self-awareness
questions.
We need to make balance withthe technology and the
algorithms and so much.
Papamutes (08:27):
So being influenced and being manipulated, two
different things, right?
Dr. Atique (08:32):
Yeah, two.
Being influenced can be a goodthing.
For example, if I am an athlete, I am following some athlete
Athletes say, do the exercise orwalk every day for 30 minutes.
Okay, buy this food or eat thisfood or don't away from the
junk food or processed food,this is a good thing.
I've been influenced fromathletic.
(08:53):
Or if I I'm in a particularindustry and I'm following a
some person that is somehow itis really good, okay from the
sports point of view, or gettingyour target or something like
broadcasting or some artisticpoint of view, book reading and
so many things, this influenceis okay.
But the bad influence is thatwhen you do the things or make
(09:17):
the decision or your behavioralchange come okay with the
influence of something that isnot good for your body or your
whole life, that's become thenegative way.
So there is a positiveinfluence as well, negative as
well.
In America there was a time whenchildren, they used to have
more time in the front of atelevision.
Then in the 90s the video gamescame.
(09:39):
Always have a complaint and theschool have a complaint with
the parents.
Make them keep away from thescreen or keep put them into the
more with the playgrounds orsomewhere.
So parents used to say we arein the offices, we are in there.
We cannot control our kids whatthey are doing in the front of
televisions.
Then the television become inthe video games.
(10:00):
No, video game games has beenlike a change into our mobile
devices.
So parental thing, the childrenthing then the schools complain
are still there.
So technology is improving.
Papamutes (10:12):
We we also need to evolve ourselves by making
there's some balance there sothere's good and bad, um, but I
even hate to bring it up, butthe political, political side if
you really get sucked in, youcan get one side of the story
constantly, or one viewpointconstantly and not the other
(10:33):
side, and it becomes like thisbattle, you know, like all
you're doing is arguing withsomebody you don't know online
or something about politics, andit's that's a bad thing.
I mean that's, it's annoying.
Dr. Atique (10:46):
Yeah, from the political perspective.
For example, the Twitter has abig big story.
Twitter's okay, the Twitteralgorithms show something else.
On election day, okay, it's abig story, especially in context
to the American reference whenthere is elections or electoral
or so many happening.
So there is a total algorithmthat is showing top 10 stories.
(11:07):
Who is winning, who is losing,who is talking about that?
But we also call it thealgorithm bias or machine
learning bias.
Sometimes the machine can pickspecific colors, sometimes the
machine can pick some specifickeywords and they can say, okay,
this person, person A, is goingto win this thing, person B is
(11:27):
sustaining on these states, orsomething like that.
So from the political point ofview, yeah, there is a big bias
in the machine learning, in thedevices.
So you say, oh, the top 10 issomething else, but the ground
reality is something different.
So then the algorithms and allof this, our social media things
, they want to take you onedecision Okay, this is the
(11:50):
person, he is the Mr Perfect,okay.
And or this is the Mr Perfect,like a politician point of view,
or this is the good brand.
So when I show you a data thatcan be manipulated by
intentionally, or from a machinelearning or from algorithms.
You say, oh, data is ascientific, approved data.
(12:11):
I should buy this phone or Ishould go for this political
party or I should go for thiskind of because the data is, and
how the data has beencalculated from the website, the
cookies, the application whenyou download it.
Okay, your privacy, your allthe things, gender, age, group,
what you do, where you live.
So you agree with the terms andthe conditions.
(12:32):
Okay, so this phenomena is notnew.
Last 10 years we are used to bewith this.
Okay, so then this data isgoing to be collected and then
they will say, oh,scientifically, 75% people
choose this, 85% people eat this.
There was a survey somewhere, Ithink, in the United States,
how success people live In thesuccess people.
(12:54):
There was one data Some peoplethey found from the millionaire
they eat fish every day.
Okay, so do you think so Ishould also eat fish every day?
That is a really trickyquestion so I put a data.
I I make something like a survey, online survey or something how
successful people, successfulpeople live or what they do.
(13:16):
The fish was a very common itemthere.
Everybody more than 90 percenttake on in the food.
Okay, that was, that was not aseafood, there was only a fish.
Okay, so then intentionally Iwill think, I think I want to be
successful in my some part inbusiness setting or project or
education or somewhere indifferent settings.
(13:37):
So I should eat fish every day.
Because I got a data fromAmerica that most successful
people they used to have a fishin every day their dish.
Then I realized, oh, I can'tafford to eat the fish every day
.
I'm more vegetarian person orsomething.
So this is the phenomena isgoing on.
We need to understand what thealgorithm is saying, what the
(14:01):
analysis or survey or that blahblah is saying, but to
manipulate the things from themarketing point of view, from
the publicity point of view,from the political point of view
, they are also right.
They are putting you a data.
This is a percentage, ok, tick,tick, tick, or decided by
yourself.
But that behavioral change, wecan't stay.
(14:22):
If 85% is in another direction,I will automatically go to that
line, that is, with 85%successful or something genius
rate or something like that.
So in this way, my decision hasbeen hijacked, even
scientifically, even from thealgorithms point of view or even
(14:43):
from the socially point of view.
Before that, my decision washijacked from my grandma.
My grandma say oh, use thissomething like a remedy in the
home, don't go for the doctor.
So grandma is still therewaiting for my decision.
She says why he or she is notlistening for me.
I have 80 years of experience inliving in different places.
(15:06):
So there is a challenge.
Either should I go for ascientific rating or analysis or
I should wait for my grandpawisdom or advice or something
from the family perspective.
Okay, so we usually we talkabout that.
Oh, my family trend is this inmy family we usually buy this
item, or we have a habit orhaving a vacation or some place
(15:29):
Okay, hawaii or something likeFlorida or something like that.
So there is a family trends,traditional point of view.
There are some scientific.
So then there is a T20, youknow there is a tennis match in
your mind is going on.
Should I go with my familywisdom or culture, the values I
am following, with somedifferent thoughts or action, or
(15:51):
should I go for the bombardmentof information?
But the information always takeyour decision because it's
giving you a scientific,scientifically, some improvement
, like 85%, 75%.
So there were some examples.
I want to tell your audiencethat what actually is going on.
But at the end, grandpa andgrandma, they are also waiting
(16:13):
for their own wisdom as well.
So, with the striking, with thebalance, with the technology or
something, and their own wisdom, 80 years or 90 years of age.
Papamutes (16:24):
It's a good analogy.
What is an echo chamber?
Dr. Atique (16:28):
Yeah, echo chamber is a kind of a terminology we
use in our digital things in ascientific way.
Echo chamber is yourpre-existing belief.
Pre-existing belief is that, um, I should eat this.
I am a vegetarian or my familywas a vegetarian, and if I eat
(16:50):
this kind of a things thatpre-existing belief this food is
more good for my health.
Okay, so that these, or likewhen we do, on that specific day
friday is a good day for me, orsunday is a good day for me, or
Sunday is a good day for methese are your pre-existing
beliefs.
You take from your heritage,your family, setting family or
cultural values, or somethinglike that.
(17:12):
So then, when there is atechnology, is there your
pre-existing beliefs are goingto be challenged?
In the previous question, wewere talking about our cultural
values or something with ourgrandpa, or something like that.
Then when the technology givesyou some percentage, some
surveys, some analysis, thenyour pre-existing beliefs can be
(17:34):
changed.
For example, if we say that ifyou study from a Harvard, okay,
so you have a 99% chance of asuccess in your life, harvard or
MIT or something like that.
So, like, then I will show yousome survey as well as the
people, the analysis orsomething so pre-existing the
(17:56):
echo chamber is going to bechanged then.
So might be my family.
They used to have a study inthe business or like that kind
of things.
Then I go for a medical studyor I change something from my
family setting and the trend andthe values from the scientific
point of view.
Again, coming to the technology,technology will recommend you
(18:17):
from early morning to late night.
So that is going to be changeyour pre-existing belief.
Ok, so that belief can bepositive, can be negative.
So here we need to come withthe analysis of our critical
thinking that, okay, this is mybody, this is my life and how I
can make balance with this.
This is the main question weare striking, but at the end we
(18:38):
always go back to the basics.
There is a very good key termwhen you need a good new idea,
read an old book.
Can you understand this?
Even this is very, very correct,even in 2025,.
If you need a good new idea,read an old book.
We always go back to the basicsFor the health things you want
(19:00):
to improve.
The health devices are there.
They are rating.
Okay, you, you walk for 30minutes today like three, three
thousand meters or steps.
You have been completed.
But, going back to the basics,I need to have more exercise, I
need to have more like a naturalfood or something.
I need to have a fresh breathe.
Going back to the basics, okay.
(19:20):
So this is the key, key thingwe always analyze whenever we,
because you want to takeyourself out from that rush,
that information or thatinformation overload or
something that making theconfusions to you.
The nature is always in a slowway process.
Real life is always a boringlife, okay, you fed up with your
(19:43):
spouses or with your children,with your job.
After some time, the real lifeis a boring, but the media and
the devices they are giving youthe best of the best option okay
best of the best things isthere.
But you say, oh, I'm stuck withthis boring assignment and my
friend is having a vacation andon the hawaii or on the Florida
(20:03):
beaches, I am stuck with thisone.
So what did the technology issaying to you you miss something
, fear of missing out, you misssomething.
Okay, the FOMO come to you.
Then you want to be rushed.
You want to jump to anotherbusiness, another job, or
another setting of whatever youare doing, or another setting of
whatever you are doing.
You want to jump Becausesomebody say to you, oh, your
(20:24):
colleague, they are like faraway, far like fast and in a
progressive way, or somethingfrom you.
So then you feel fear ofmissing out.
So there was so many conceptsthat we need.
We are in the daily life, weare interaction with that,
positively, negatively.
Papamutes (20:45):
That was actually my next question FOMO, fear of
missing out, but you kind ofgone over that.
Let me ask you this I hadsomeone on a couple episodes ago
who was a journalist for TV.
You know sports ESPN, you knowthat whole scene.
You know sports ESPN, you knowthat whole scene and I asked her
this question you know someonegoing to college now to be in,
(21:12):
do you need?
The question basically was doyou need a degree for journalism
?
Her answer was no.
Do you think you need a degreeto get into journalism today?
Yeah, it's a very, very goodquestion.
Dr. Atique (21:22):
Actually, I also did two degrees in journalism and
communication, and I also workedfor a television for a long
time, yeah, Okay.
Now the hard thing is that nowthe degrees are old fashioned,
now, okay, I'm telling you, I'mrepeating, now the degrees are
old fashioned, now that thethings have very rapidly changed
(21:44):
into the skill, from degrees tothe skill.
Okay, learn this skill and ifthis skill is is very much in in
a, in a, in a time way, forexample, the ai is is taking
everything, now the podcastingspeech, to the right you, you
give the script to your softwareor something, and software will
(22:05):
make your clone, your voice,and that thing is going to be
changed.
Okay, the podcasting culture orthe podcast device, the machine
has taken this ability from youto the device and device will
do for you.
Okay, so things are rapidlychanging with the technology as
well.
So the degree of the relevant isno longer does it matter?
(22:26):
But from the medical point ofview, yes, you need that degree,
you need to be from there.
There are some profession theengineering and some, I think,
some for hardcore, hardcoreprofession still need a degree.
For example, if you want to bea lawyer, you need some license
to do that one.
Okay, From the journalism andthe social science point of view
(22:47):
, in my own experience, becauseI came to the United States as
well and I've been to living indifferent countries, the
journalism, social science,political science, international
relations or some self-helpstudies or something like
psychology or something likethat.
these are the self-improvement.
Whenever you read more, youhave a practical experience, you
learn and you do this, so youimprove yourself.
Papamutes (23:11):
So, in a hypothetical world, you're in charge and you
can eliminate social media andgo back to prior to social media
, whenever that was, whateverthe date is.
But you know, would you do that?
Do you think we were better offwithout all this bombardment
(23:31):
Although we were bombarded withTV and stuff, but I mean it's so
thick Would you, if you were incontrol of the world, you know,
just get rid of social media?
Dr. Atique (23:43):
Yeah, for that one.
For example, going back 20 or25 years ago, that was quite
balanced with the things youjust only need to send the email
, or that was the culture, andmore with the face-to-face
relationship.
Okay, you try to meet with theperson with the face-to-face.
Papamutes (24:01):
You want to enjoy the cup of coffee you want to enjoy
the cup of coffee.
Dr. Atique (24:04):
You want to enjoy the food.
You want to enjoy theatmosphere.
You want to enjoy the book withthe real cover and some special
fragrance in the old book.
You want to enjoy the things.
So that's the thing I think weare missing now, when we are
putting more time on the devicesso we cannot enjoy the real
(24:25):
life taste.
I want to meet with the Bob.
I want to enjoy the coffee withthe Bob.
I want to feel the texture.
Papamutes (24:32):
I mean, anybody could read a book.
Who would this book be for?
Dr. Atique (24:36):
Yeah, more specifically, because I belong
to a journalism and the mediabackground, so I was teaching
there.
I have this experiences andevery, every day or every walks
of life, like I play with thedevices and I read about the
media, I write, I wrote thearticles or I am writing and I
am in the broadcasting as well.
So the particular is is thatthe person, the media tech
(25:00):
person okay, the people who wantto make the balance with the
technology and the real life,technology and the society, the
media person, the journalismperson, the tech person, like
they want to have a thing thatif they spend like eight to 10
hours in a day in front of thetechnologies and then they get
bored, they want to havesomething balanced with their
(25:21):
real life or with the technologyor something like that.
So, like book is.
For now, this is the mainconcern that how we can make the
balance with the algorithmtechnology and with the real
life and how we can taste thethings around us, how we can
feel the environment, how we canhave a good food and we can
(25:42):
like share our feelings as well.
So the technology, the thingsthat we cannot share, the
feelings actually, the feelingsis always like having a man to
man and human to humanconnections.
So this is the idea behind thisbook Digitally Hijack the Age of
Influence.
And like it is for everybody,like it's a kind of a self help
book, so everybody can read itand improve it.
(26:03):
And then like it's a kind of aself-help book, so everybody can
read it and improve it.
And then like they can comewith their own decision, with
their own mind, with their ownidea like how, where the
technology is going and where Iam standing, where are my own
decision, that I wholly take incharge of my own decision?
This is real me or somebodyinfluence on me?
(26:23):
This is the main question toaddress and I have address in
this book.
Papamutes (26:29):
You speak about digital fasting.
How long I mean?
Obviously you know fasting, weunderstand what that means, but
how long do you recommend?
I mean, a day would seem likeforever for some people.
Dr. Atique (26:47):
Yeah, actually, right now is a fasting month for
me.
I am Muslim, so I'm having likefasting.
This is a month of fastingRamadan from spiritual point of
view yeah, spiritual fasting OK.
And the second is that, ok, thefasting.
(27:10):
I come with the idea thatdigital fasting is a terminology
that, ok, we usually have a 24hour in a day, ok, so 24 hour we
need to divide is like eighthour is for a sleep, eight hour
is for our work, business,education or something, and
eight hour is for our family.
So we have divided three things.
(27:32):
Okay, sleep mean health and ourfinance, our work, our business
setting for eight hours andeight hour is for family.
If you put this three pizza,three part of your like in a
whole day.
So we want to have a balance inthat.
So digital fasting is that okay.
When you are doing yourassignment it can be work,
(27:54):
business take the help of atechnology.
Technology is your best servant.
Take the help from thetechnology, do it your best.
Okay, learn about it, crush itand make the best from that
skill software.
Whatever you are using, when youare with your family setting or
when you are in your own thing,you are playing the things.
(28:14):
I have seen when you go for thegym, when you are going for a
walking, the people are stillwith their devices or something.
So you can't make the things.
Or you are on the phone and youare pulling some liver or you
are pulling something in the gym, so what you are doing,
actually, and another person iswaiting.
When he will get free, then Iwill want to have the exercise.
(28:36):
So what you are doing with thedevices, you make something
mixed with that and somethinghappen negative with you.
Or you want something like that, so when you are eating, or you
want something like that, sowhen you are eating, try to eat
full, try to enjoy the food.
Okay, this is digital fastingmean.
Do focus on the one thing at aone time.
Okay, when you are doingsomething in the assignment time
(28:59):
, take help from the technologychat, gtp or DeepSeek or
whatever the technology is there.
When you are eating something,when you are doing the exercise,
then focus on that and enjoythe texture, enjoy the
atmosphere.
Do with the people.
You often see people want tosocialize in this technological
era but you are keep busy inyour phone.
Ok, somebody come close to you.
(29:20):
You did not give a spacebecause you are busy in the
phone, or you are having aheadphone or something, so
people.
Next person want to.
Yeah, so you are still thereActually the problem is that,
yeah, yeah, you are pointingthere.
The problem is that then theperson next to you is not value
for you.
The person who is thousands ofmiles in a fantasy.
(29:42):
He is more value to you.
This thing we need to realize.
The person next to me or nextdoor neighbor, he can be a very
good friend to me.
We can have a barbecue in ourlawn or in our area or something
like that.
So this is the thing we need tounderstand if you want to
socialize and then keep respectto the human, to human
communication, and make thethings in a way, even in the
(30:05):
public setting, when you go fora dinner with your family or
friends, the things in a way,even in the public setting, when
you go for a dinner with yourfamily or your friends, okay,
hold the family as you arewaiting for your dishes.
You are keep opening with themobile messages.
You are keep there, okay, andeven the meal is there.
Meal is getting cold.
Then you say, oh, I don't wantto eat.
What happened?
You are keep busy in themessages.
You are keep busy withsomething else and the food is
(30:26):
still there.
Food is waiting, okay, thedelicious.
Then you say, oh, it is getcold, I don't want to eat, or
I'm not hungry enough, so sothese are the things.
And then you complain about thethings.
Okay, I'm not enjoying the life,or I'm not having the taste, or
I'm not having this and that sothe reason is that at that
particular time you did notfocus on that thing at the at
(30:47):
the moment, at that time,physically you were not focus on
that thing at the moment Atthat time, physically you were
present there, but mentally youwere somewhere else.
It happens in our officesetting, in our business setting
, in our education setting oreven in the seminar.
You book a seminar from TonyRobbins, but you are still there
in your mobile devices, you aretalking with there.
(31:07):
You spend thousands of dollarsto attend the seminar.
Actually, that was the time youget socialized, you get the
other person's opinion in theface-to-face, because whenever
we write something, whenever wesay on the devices, we we kept
so much like a consciously wewrite.
But when you are face-to-wordyou want to express your a
(31:28):
hundred percent because youtrust the other person.
But when I am recording, when Iam writing something, then I
need to be very much consciousabout, because then my audience
is different, then my messagewill be a different way.
But when you meet with someperson face to face, in a family
setting, in a business setting,then you want to be real, you
want to be honest Okay, okay,this is my product I want to
(31:50):
sell, this is my business orthis is my stuff, or this I do
and who I am and this is thething I want to keep you on
board, or something like that ina business setting, on a social
setting, dinner, or so manythings.
So then in the really youbecome different person and on
the devices you are very muchconscious about your texting,
(32:10):
your keywords.
You don't speak face-to-face.
Then you are the second personaof your personality.
You become so humble, youbecome so sophisticated, but in
couple of meetings with a newperson, new friend or like a
partner or something, you aredifferent, but on the devices,
you are very much different.
So these are the key lenses weneed to learn how we behave on
(32:33):
the technology and how we behaveface to face Huge difference.
Papamutes (32:37):
Excellent.
Do you think that AI will getso good in the near future that
they're actually recreatingpeople completely?
You know, I mean just notmentally.
I mean I'm talking robots.
You know, instead of me goingto work, they said my robot.
(32:59):
I mean it sounds fictional, butit's so like AI is so rapidly
moving.
Do you think in the future thatis possible?
Dr. Atique (33:08):
Yeah, actually it's a very good million dollar
question.
Actually, everybody's afraidthat then where I will fall,
where my skill will go.
Recently I was in China in ahotel.
So when somebody knocked at thedoor or I got the voice, there
was a robot to serve me.
Yes, sir, there is your, hereare your bottles.
(33:33):
And it was a small robot aboutthree feet and there was a one
cup and I think I Asked them tosend me some more stuff.
And there was a bell and therewas a report.
Who served at at my door?
And it's quite common, even inthe restaurant, when you need an
extra spoon, pan plate or somestuff, so the board will hang
(33:54):
here and there.
Okay, so it is becoming quitecommon in China as well.
Okay, and I saw there was a oneposting even, I think it was in
California somewhere.
Don't hire people, okay, buythis software to solve your
problem, so, okay.
So what happened?
Uh, for example, in americanhistory, and especially in the
(34:17):
1960s and 70s, when there was amore industrial revolution, auto
cars were more common, therewere more industry there.
So people also lost their job.
When, then, what we did?
We, we make some balance there.
When there is a technologytechnology, after some time it
gets saturated.
When it is saturated, we alwaysfeel after that no, we are
human being, we want to exist onthis planet or somewhere else.
(34:41):
So then we try to think thebalance.
Now, our privacy is going to belost.
There is no privacy anymore.
Okay, where you are living, howmuch you earn, your gender, all
the things from cookies andapplication.
They are taking your privacyand they are selling.
After some time, when this willbe a more saturated thing, then
we will go back to the basics.
(35:02):
We will make more privacy laws.
We will make some more termsand conditions.
No, okay, 50% gender, 50%technology.
We will make this kind of arules and regulation or hiring
the people.
Okay, 50% should be the maleand female.
Okay, gender balance and 50% wewill go with some software
technology or something.
We will keep the balance.
(35:22):
No, this is the boiling stageof the technology.
Technology is boiling.
Okay, we are a little afraid.
Oh, they are going.
Little afraid.
Oh, they are going to take,they are going to replace me.
Okay, digital transformation.
In my book, in the last chapter.
I talk about the digitaltransformation, how the business
they are going to be revolved,how the technology is going to
be revolved from the businesspoint of view.
So then we will make some rulesand regulation globally or some
(35:46):
like, uh, nationally orsomething like that, to keep the
balance.
That, okay, there should besome human existence, there
should be some technology and,and in some, in what part and
what percentage we can use thetechnology.
What might be in the educationsetting?
We will make some rules andregulation.
Okay, you can take the chat,gtp or this 25, but the 75%
(36:08):
should be your own real content,something we will make like
this.
As I am reading and thinking, wewill go back to the basics.
Actually, we will again valueor we will give some percentage.
We will give some reward tohave a face-to-face assignments.
More, we will give some like a,just like the, the western food
(36:29):
or in the west, when there wasso much processed food, we went
back to the organic food.
Then we can see the logo on our, on our bottles or our food
products organic 80 percent, 90percent, organic 10 percent,
process, less sodium, less likethis kind of a stuff.
What happened we?
We went back to the basics.
Actually, we went back to theorganic food, from the junk food
(36:51):
to the organic one.
So then, all the companies theyutilize okay, we can make
something with the things thatwe should not damage our health,
we should not damage our values.
So there will be a time withthat rules and regulation.
But at this time, when we aretalking, bob, with you and with
your audience, we are a littleafraid, not little, actually,
consciously.
(37:12):
We are afraid becauseeverything is going to be
regarded and we are thinkingabout our self-privacy.
Oh my God, I was looking forthis.
And the pop-up message is therebuy from this store.
Okay, 90% discount.
Papamutes (37:26):
Yes, like that, oh yeah, yes, like, like that, oh
yeah, like it's wild.
Um, so where can the listenersuh, I mean obviously amazon, but
where else you have a websiteor something that they can go
purchase the book?
And is there a, uh, digitalversion, you know, an audio
version?
Dr. Atique (37:47):
right now there is like an e-version is available
on Amazon and my publisher Wipsand Stock.
They are from Oregon publisherWips and Stock and I will share
the links with you and then theycan buy.
The book is availableeverywhere.
It's available on the Balls andNoble as well, vip and Stock
(38:11):
and they are also available onAmazon.
All that Target, walmart,everywhere my book is available.
Papamutes (38:16):
Awesome.
Well, this has been great.
I mean, I learned a lot.
I know there's a lot more inthe book.
I recommend reading the wholething.
It's so much stuff with socialmedia.
It's not just one thing, it'sjust bombardment and you have to
balance it.
Ai coming in now.
(38:37):
It's a great idea, great book.
Do you have any ideas foranother one, a follow-up?
Dr. Atique (38:46):
In this book I talk about the social media and the
digital transformation.
The next book, I want to talkabout how the technical
revolution is going on and howthe different countries, the
companies, they will make therules and regulations something
(39:08):
from the point of view as ananswer for the solution of this,
all the problems.
The next book I will writeabout that a digital
transformation, ai, okay, as agood friend of a human, and how
we can make better benefit fromthat.
In this, the first part, I talkabout some awareness thing.
Okay, okay, awareness and whatis going on, what is the
(39:31):
transformation of one?
In the next book I will try tocome up with more, better idea.
The last question was reallygood how we can make it the
betterment for the humanity fromthe rules, regulations, just
like from the European.
There is a lot GDPR, there is alot of the privacy and the
content and so many thingsintellectual property or, like
your privacy, your terms andcondition.
(39:53):
So next book, I will try towrite about how that technology
can be your best friend or bestservant and how the companies
and the companies, they canbetter get the advantage from
them by making the balance withthe human existence and the
technology and robotic andsoftware also how they can make
it more balanced in a way thatkind of a stuff.
(40:15):
So these are in in my mindexcellent, excellent.
Papamutes (40:18):
That's a great follow-up.
Sounds wonderful.
Uh, doctor, I really appreciateyou coming on all the way from
new zealand thank you.
Dr. Atique (40:25):
Thank you very much for having me with this really,
really, uh, good idea and very,very good questions you asked.
I hope your audience will likeit and they will share their own
thoughts as well.
So I will try to reply theirquestions as well and their
comments that how we can makebetter use of technology with
the balance of humanity as well.
Papamutes (40:47):
This has been an Unmuted Podcast with Papa Mutes.
Bye.
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