March 13, 2025 • 34 mins
When Amanda Quick's husband didn't come home one night in 2016, she never imagined she would discover he'd been arrested for attempted human trafficking. As a stay-at-home mother to three children under six, Amanda's world shattered in an instant, launching her into a four-year journey of uncovering painful truths about the man she thought she knew.
Amanda's story challenges everything we think we know about human trafficking. Far from the shipping containers and border crossings we imagine, this crime hides in plain sight—in small towns, in seemingly normal marriages, and behind the façades of ordinary people. Her husband, a nerdy IT professional who traveled for work, had been leading a double life for years while she raised their children, completely unaware of his sinister activities.
The most shocking aspect of Amanda's journey wasn't just her husband's crimes, but how the justice system handled them. Despite being caught attempting to purchase children in a sting operation, he received only probation—no jail time. Even more disturbing, as a sex offender in Colorado, he maintained his constitutional right to parent his own children, forcing Amanda into a separate custody battle that required enormous emotional strength and financial resources that many victims simply don't have.
Through raw, honest storytelling, Amanda reveals the subtle red flags she missed—not physical abuse, but the insidious emotional control that eroded her identity and confidence over time. Her memoir explores trauma bonding, gaslighting, and the complex psychological warfare that abusers employ. Yet her story ultimately becomes one of profound transformation and hope as she describes the spiritual awakening that helped her break free, gain full custody of her children, and create the Golden Haven Foundation to help others facing similar battles.
What makes this story so crucial is that it reveals perspectives rarely discussed in conversations about trafficking. If you believe this crime only happens somewhere else to someone else, Amanda's powerful testimony will change your understanding forever. Her courage in sharing this journey offers a lifeline to others who may be living their own version of this nightmare, showing that healing and reclaiming your power is possible even after unimaginable betrayal.
photos courtesy; a.quick
“THE OPINIONS EXPRESSED OR VIEWS EXPRESSED BY GUESTS DO NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT OR REPRESENT THOSE OF THE HOST;
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Unmuted with Papa Mutes.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to Papa Mutes , everybody.
Today, my guest is Amanda Quick.
Amanda is an internationalbestselling author.
Her memoir the Sex Trafficker'sWife the story of truth, faith
and trust in yourself shares thebiggest trauma of her life when
her ex-husband was arrested forattempted human trafficking.
You don't want to miss this one.
I'm thrilled to have her on,amanda.
(00:30):
Welcome to Papa Mutes.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Yeah, so this is obviously a sad story.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
But why write a book?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
So after everything was over, after my divorce was
finalized, after the chaos ended, there was a deep calling in me
to speak this story.
There was this realization thatI succeeded at something that
so many people don't.
So many people end up sharingcustody with their abusers and
their children's abusers so manypeople, you know.
(01:05):
The system does not get thingsright, unfortunately, most of
the time.
And not only that, but I livedthrough something so shocking.
It felt like I was, you know,it was better than a Lifetime
movie, kind of just my real life.
And people told me over andover you should write a book.
This is crazy.
And after I succeeded, it wasjust this realization that I had
(01:29):
this understanding that camethrough living through this and
living through it to come outthe other side and be able to
speak into it.
And so it was almost like I hadto tell the story.
I had to write the book.
It was such a strong knowingand even as I was writing it,
(01:52):
the process that I went throughand feeling into it.
And then the research we did.
Nobody has ever written a bookfrom the wife's perspective
about human trafficking not once.
And when I learned that it was,well, I have to.
People need to understandthere's so much more to this
than the victims and theperpetrators and I don't want to
take away from their storiesbut from the wife's perspective,
(02:14):
somebody who truly did not knowwhat was going on and to then
be faced with it, I felt like adifferent type of victim and I
needed to speak into thatexperience for others to both
see themselves as well as tounderstand how much more complex
this is so the story itself.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Well, are there any um, before we get into the story
, uh, any fictional stuff justfor drama, or is it all pure?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
straight.
It is all exactly as it, as ithappened, okay.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
All right, so the story we're not giving away too
much of the book.
What happened, Um, how did ithappen?
I mean, it's uh, it's anamazing story.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
So, uh, back in 2016, I was a full-time stay at home
mom.
My kids were one, four and fivealmost six, and I'd been
married six years.
My husband was.
He worked for a credit cardprocessing company and traveled
for work.
He was in internet security andmy life was what I thought was
(03:19):
normal.
Right, I mean, he worked toomuch, we didn't spend as much
time together as I wanted, but Ihad three young kids.
That was my life and his lifewas providing the financial
means.
And you know, there certainlywas other challenges, but we
didn't really fight and mostlywe didn't discuss anything that
(03:40):
would cause a fight.
But at the time that was a lookat us doing so well.
And one night he just doesn'tcome home from work just I, and
that was unusual.
He was late all the time.
He didn't come home afterbedtime regularly, but never not
come home.
And you know I'm calling hisphone and it starts going
straight to voicemail.
(04:01):
And because he worked so oftenlong hours and often ignored my
phone calls, I was like,whatever he'll show up when he
shows, I'm going to bed.
And I went to bed and I woke upat 2 am and he wasn't there,
and at 5 am he still wasn'tthere and this was when I
realized something had happenedand my mind is spinning and
crazy stories and everything.
And at 5 am, I callednon-emergency dispatch and they
(04:23):
transferred me to the jail,where I learned that he in fact
was there and he had beenarrested for attempted human
trafficking with a $250,000 bond.
Yeah, and so that was thebeginning of what turned into
the next four years ofuncovering and learning and
processing everything that Ididn't know uncovering and
(04:48):
learning and processingeverything that I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
So the first, I mean obviously it's like kaboom, you
know, dui, drugs or something.
It's almost I'm not that that'sacceptable, but it's like okay,
but this is like next levelwhat you know.
So the first, I mean you havekids the first day, the next day
, you know the first couple ofdays.
How stressful, psychotic wasthat.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Oh my gosh.
I mean I, there was no sleeping, I was in a full panic response
.
My mind is racing, I don't.
I don't even know what thecharge really means.
Right, we have this picture inour heads of shipping containers
and borders and I'm wearingthis like small little mountain
top, huh, you know.
And then I'm like trying tobuild a story around.
Is he actually dead?
And somebody stole his wallet?
(05:27):
And they're arrested and, likeyou know, you're trying to.
It makes so no sense toanything.
And then the fear kicks in.
If they think he's involved,are they gonna think I'm
involved?
Because it makes no sense,right?
So my mind is doing all thesecrazy stories and, at the same
time, everything in me.
I'm a very loyal andaction-oriented person, so it's
(05:53):
okay.
He doesn't belong in jail.
Something is wrong.
I have to fix it.
I have to help, I have to.
That's my reaction, is not tobelieve it's true.
Is this?
There's some other explanation,something is wrong.
I have to, I have to takeaction.
So, you know, at 5am, when Ilearned that's where he is, I'm
calling bail bondsman.
(06:13):
So I'm calling lawyers.
Nobody's answering me at 5am,but I'm still calling.
I'm leaving messages.
You know, somebody will call meback in the morning and and the
bail bondsman's actually doanswer the phone at 5am and they
tell you because they want yourbusiness, and the lawyer
actually calls me back at 7am,and so there are people working
early hours, especially in thecriminal world, and you know,
(06:33):
and I start to slowly understandhow the process works, but I
still don't have any information.
And the bail bondsman actuallygoes and checks on him and
because I don't even think it'shim in jail, I'm not even sure
about that.
You know right.
So it's just so.
Much is this impossibility.
Little by little I start to getpieces, and yet it actually
(06:54):
takes almost four years for meto get the full story, because
he wasn't willing to tell me thefull story.
As well as you know the whenpolice are building a case, the
thing people don't realize isfamily members don't get the
evidence.
They're building a case,they're actually trying to get
more evidence from you, and so II don't actually get the full
(07:16):
details until many years laterany criminal, any criminal
history in the past none husband, nope, no nothing wild man type
of thing, nope, I mean he was.
As you know, he was the nerdyguy like it.
Just it made zero sense.
I mean, he told me when we weregot together I was the fourth
(07:37):
person he had ever been with andI was wife number three.
So, like I had built this story, he's not a guy who dates, he
doesn doesn't go to bars, hedoesn't, he doesn't do any of
that Like, not even in thesupposedly like normal male way,
and so just so far around awayfrom who I knew him to be and
(07:57):
who I knew myself to be, thelife that we lived, the
cognitive dissonance andbelieving there was any
possibility of this, was really,really intense.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Now I mean fast forward, looking back, were
there any signs that you saidlike, oh, wait a minute, he
wasn't as nice as I thought?
You know, yes, red flags 100%.
There you go.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Yes, so big red flags .
When I met him I was 18.
He was nine years older than Iwas and he was deeply interested
in my teenage promiscuity, mypictures of me as a teenager.
He also was married to wifenumber two and I was the other
(08:42):
woman for a year Right, I was 19and naive was the other woman
for a year.
Right, I was 19 and naive andbelieved the stories that he
said.
He also, as the relationshipprogressed, wanted me to invite
other men into the bedroom.
He wanted to watch me dodifferent things.
He had all of these sort offantasies that he would test to
(09:04):
see if I would play out becauseI had such a teenage crazy time
and he would actually make mefeel guilty if I didn't want to
do those things.
Because I didn't.
That was not the relationshipthat we had and I didn't want to
bring that energy into thisrelationship and I didn't love
him enough.
And so huge, huge red flags.
(09:25):
But 19, 20 year old me didn'tsee it that way because at 19
and 20, I wasn't even processingwhat had happened to me as a
teenager.
I wasn't refused to be a victim.
I refused to look at any of itas abuse or rape or statutory
anything, even though at 15, 16,these were older men.
(09:46):
So I refused to acknowledge myown past and, if anything, I
romanticized it, which invitedhim to talk about it, be excited
by it and everything else.
And so, looking back, obviously, as I processed and healed in
different ways, I can see howthe teenage version of me was
(10:08):
was, in a lot of ways, stillattracting that type of man, and
once I, once we did officiallyget together and I got married
and had children I was no longerthe one he could share those
things with, and so I built anew story that it was.
It was a different relationshipand we grow, grew up more and
(10:29):
now we're a family, and and Ididn't realize that he then
still needed an escape from thatand that he continued to go
down even darker paths.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
How about family and friends when it was going on?
Did they bail or did theysupport what happened there?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
So his family deeply supported.
His family really wanted me tostay around.
This is not him and if anythingreally kind of leaned into, he
needed me in order to staygrounded and okay.
And so I was so attached to thefamily unit and the belief and
identity that that carried, andso his family was very connected
(11:06):
to that.
My family was much more, yeah,sure and really treading
carefully.
My mom was a marriage and familytherapist and she was, uh,
worked in a lot of treat likeaddiction treatment centers and
she was much more aware of thevarious methods and modalities
and some of the ways people lieand manipulate, and she tried
(11:28):
very hard not to show herjudgment, but I could feel it
and I just actually pushed heraway for a long time.
Friends were cautious, they werecurious and also, you know, I
think there was their own levelof shock and cognitive
dissonance taking place and theywere more concerned about me
and supporting me and my youngchildren and at the same time
(11:51):
recognized that there was somuch they likely didn't know and
so they really kind of kept acautious distance and many of
them later completely cut offany connection to him and if I
was going to stay with him, thenI was also kind of cut off.
But later, as we separated, youknow, they kind of came back
around and shared how confusedin a lot of ways they were as
(12:12):
well there was.
There was only one other personwho chose to believe like I did
for as long as I did.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Now your kids at the time were in school or not.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
No, they were well, they were young.
So the one-year-old wasn't inschool, the four and
five-year-old were in, likepreschool kindergarten.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
And reaction from the other parents.
The school, yeah, so the schoolwas certainly more worried.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
You know there was articles in the paper.
This was public knowledge andso the school was.
You know we had to have theconversation.
We're following the bond hecan't be around schools, he
can't be around other kids, likeall of that going on.
And the school was supportiveof the children.
Thankfully they were very.
You know, our, our, their goalwas to be the safe place for
kids, which I appreciated, andI'm sure they fielded other
(13:02):
parent things, but I was the onewho dropped them off and picked
them up and did all of that andso I think, as long as he
stayed away, the other parents Ididn't really hear any more
from any parents directly andthe school kind of fielded, you
know, ensuring that the kidswere safe and that they were
following all of the protocolsand things like that.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Now, approximately how long down the road did the
kids grab?
Well, the one year old, I guessit took a while, but did they
grasp what happened?
Speaker 2 (13:31):
So they were not told what happened until after we
like four years later he refusedwas one of the big contentious
points in therapy, because I putthe kids in therapy because
there was a lot going on and atthat age it's play therapy.
It's a different, it's sometalk therapy the kids are.
They don't have quite theintellectual or developmental
(13:52):
understanding and the agreementwas that he was going to come up
with an age appropriate way tospeak about this to them, and so
all they knew was daddy was introuble and that he had these
roles.
That's all they knew was daddywas in trouble and that he had
these roles.
That's all they knew, and hecontinued to refuse to disclose
in the way that we agreed thathe would, and it was something
(14:16):
that I ended up having to doonce I got full custody, four
years later.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Did you blame yourself at any time?
I mean I know it sounds weirdbecause you're not doing it, but
yeah, but it's actually anormal thing to blame yourself
at any time.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
I mean, I know it sounds weird because you're not
doing it but yeah, but it'sactually a normal thing to blame
yourself.
Unfortunately, I didn't blamemyself for for not being like a
good enough wife.
I think some people might'vegone there.
You know, I didn't.
I didn't blame myself there.
I later blamed myself for notseeing what I didn't see and
(14:49):
looking back and not ignoringthe red flags, for bailing him
out of jail for, uh, you know,excusing behaviors, for staying
in a relationship and pretendingeverything was totally fine.
You know, I I blamed myselflater for that, for more of the
things that I didn't do ratherthan, um, what I did do as far
(15:11):
as the relationship wasconcerned.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
How long was it going on?
I mean, you don't knowimmediately, but how long was he
doing this for?
Speaker 2 (15:19):
yeah, I mean like so what he told me is that he had
been soliciting adults since hislike, since he was 20 and so
he's, you know, almost 40 at thetime, so 20 years.
He told me that he stopped fora period of time when I, when we
got together, and that itstarted back up when my youngest
(15:40):
or my oldest, I should say wassix months old, and so there's a
couple year window where heclaims it's not happening and
all he would admit to wassoliciting adults.
He would never actually admitto the children, and yet he was
arrested for trying to purchasean 11 and 14 year old and yet he
(16:03):
was arrested for trying topurchase an 11 and 14 year old.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
So I mean, just to be clear, you know, you hear human
, um, yes, trafficking.
So was he finding kids andgiving them to someone else that
took them to another country orsomething like you know, like
so, or was he actually involvedsexually?
Speaker 2 (16:19):
what he is involved sexually, when you're a party to
human trafficking, when you arepurchasing children who cannot
consent, who cannot be owned,and when you're taking
possession of children, you area participant of and a party to
human trafficking.
And so I, I don't have reasonto believe.
Now I also don't know what, Idon't know that he like sold,
(16:41):
resold them off.
I, I, I don't know about that,I don't know how deeply it got.
It's statistically impossiblefor this to be the first time,
even though he claimed that.
Uh, but I do know that he wassexually participating with
people who were not there oftheir own free will.
(17:01):
And this was in your area, Imean where you live currently
Well, not anymore, but yes wherewe lived at the time, which was
a small town in Colorado.
He told me a lot of it alsohappened in Cincinnati, where he
traveled for work quiteregularly.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Geez.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Wow, where is he now, as far as I I know he's exactly
where he was.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
I have had no contact in almost five years now.
No, I mean, is he in jail?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
no, no, no, no, no, no.
So this is a thing people don'trealize.
In privileged white america,men do not go to prison for
trying to purchase children,that's outrageous Not upper
middle class white men, no, no,no, no.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
How the hell does that work?
Speaker 2 (17:47):
He spent two days in jail in the beginning and later
he was given a plea deal and theplea deal pled down to
attempted solicitation of aminor which you still think
would come with jail time, butit didn't.
It was four years of probation,so he received a plea deal.
The goal for most of,unfortunately, the goal that the
prosecution and the DA's officeis, is to get them in what they
(18:10):
believe is treatment and whatthey believe is actually
rehabilitating and so, and eventalking to his lawyers, the most
people get for these crimes is30 to 60 days.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Well, what about the victims?
Did anyone come forward and sayhey, this guy did this, that
and the other thing.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
So nobody came forward that we know the victims
in this particular case werehypothetical victims.
They were not real children andso it was a sting operation
that the FBI and local policedepartment put on.
And so the and they actually dothese quite often.
For this, the stings, you know,set these up, and they, you
(18:50):
know, post an ad, and peoplerespond to the ad and the, the
charges, depending on how, howfar they go through with and he
actually walked away from it.
He didn't complete thetransaction because they did
things outside of the normaloperating procedure you don't
pay first and so he actuallyleft, and he knew all of the
(19:10):
protocol and he knew all of thelanguage, and they didn't follow
the protocol, and because therewas no actual children to hand
over.
Because there was no actualchildren to hand over, and the
thing about this, though, isthey're trying to get them off
the street, they're trying toget them in treatment, but what
ends up happening is theyactually end up with no
(19:33):
consequences.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
That's crazy.
I mean unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Oh yeah, and well, here's another one for you.
In the state of Colorado, theconstitutional right to parent
is not removed for sex offenders, and so he had his full
constitutional rights to his ownchildren, which means when he
pled guilty to attemptedsolicitation of a minor, he was
able to move back into the homeand have unrestricted access to
his children, not to otherchildren.
He had rules and restrictionson schools and other things.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
I was going to say is he listed as an offender?
Speaker 2 (20:04):
He is listed as a sex offender?
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Yes, Wherever he goes .
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Yes, that will continue with him for up to
potentially he could actually inColorado you can apply to get
off the offender list after 10years, but even more so.
What that meant is once Istarted to wake up and see more
of the truth.
I then had a custody fight infront of me because the criminal
case was not relevant in thefamily court case.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Wow, all right.
So yeah, you fast.
I mean I'm sure there's othertidbits in the book that are
kind of blew through it.
Um, that's the gist of it, andhe's just out there and you're
doing your thing, hopefully in ahappy way, and the children
good.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
The children are good .
So today they're 10, 12 and 14,so it's been with you a lot
with and they're with me ahundred percent.
Uh, in 2020, I received fullcustody and he has had no
contact with them or me, and I'mcoming up on five years.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Now in the book, are you using fictitious names or
Only?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
for I use his name and everybody else's names are
changed.
He, his crime, is public recordas well as so is our divorce,
and so it felt weird to bothcite newspaper articles and not
have his real name in there.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Right.
So what is the Golden HavenFoundation?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Yes, so that is a 5013C that I started and truly,
to be completely transparent,still starting and working
towards understanding how tofund nonprofits.
But the biggest thing that Itook away that is missing from
the system is the privilege ittakes to fight for safety for
(21:55):
yourself and your children inabusive situations with family
court, and the reality that somany people end up sharing
custody with their abusers andtheir children's abusers and
this happens every day all overthe world that people with
whoever has money is going to bemore likely to succeed in a
family court case because youdon't get a you don't even get a
public defender in a familycourt case, and when the
(22:16):
situations of domestic violenceand abuse sexual abuse case, and
when the situations of domesticviolence and abuse, sexual
abuse, you still have to gothrough the process, and it is
actually the victim's job toeducate the judge and jury if
there is one, on trauma andtrauma bonding, and so the
foundation's goal is to bothhelp people come to the mental
and emotional place where theyactually can have the fight.
(22:37):
Because it wasn't the moneythat succeeded in my case.
Money got me in the door, but Iactually had to completely
change my beliefs inside inorder to have the energy to have
this fight and to succeed, andso the foundation's goal is to
both be educating as well as getto the point where we can offer
cash grants to help pay forlegal fees, because that doesn't
(22:58):
exist today.
There's women's shelters,there's food, insecurity places,
but nobody is helping with thelegal battle.
And I will say something thatpeople don't realize is that
human trafficking exists inevery single town in this
country, and people do not haveany idea how prevalent it is.
The reality that nobody knowsis that it is under so many.
(23:19):
It seems like these are justfamily towns or things like that
, but it is everywhere, and youlikely know somebody who is both
who is a participant and or avictim of this and you know, the
sex industry is everywhere andthis, unfortunately, is
something that we think ismostly in other countries and we
(23:41):
think it's this foreign problem.
But the opposite is true.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Can't judge a book by its cover, so to speak.
I mean, yeah, man, I mean, whatis it?
I saw this in research anenergy healer yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
So after I got out of the situation, um, it was it.
Not only was this a realizationof you know the what I needed
to do, what this process was,but it was actually a very
spiritual awakening as well.
It was a really spiritualmoment of realizing the power
that I held and the ways that Icould not just manifest but come
(24:24):
to an entirely different way ofbeing, because there was a very
long period of time during thecustody hearing that I was very
likely going to end up sharingcustody with a man who was
already beginning to sexuallygroom his own children and I
couldn't proving that.
Because grooming nothing quitehappens.
We're just crossing boundaries,little by little, we're moving
those lines and in family court,you have to prove something
(24:44):
already bad enough has happenedthat you can prove in order to
justify taking away rights.
And so I was really like thewriting was on the wall that
this was just going to continue.
And something happened within methat changed that, and it was
an internal shift where Irealized that I wasn't being
accountable for my part in notseeing what was in front of me,
(25:08):
on choosing this, on not wantingto be in this situation, on
keeping any connection to theirfather, because I still wanted
to believe that there wasanother explanation.
And not being accountable tothose pieces was, in a lot of
ways, what kept this situationstuck.
And when I flipped that andswitched it, just like weeks
later, everything was differentand evidence was different and I
(25:31):
listened to things differently.
And so it was this big kind ofawakening and understanding and
the power that I held in thesesituations and that we all hold
in.
Despite being victims, we stillhave the power.
Right, it's not our fault whathappens to us, but it is our
responsibility to change and tocome out of it.
And so that sort of awakeningand understanding sent me on a
(25:51):
very spiritual journey tounderstand trauma on a deeper
level, and so to understandtrauma not just on a physical
level but on a mental andemotional and spiritual level,
and the way that these patternsrepeat in families, the way
these patterns repeat in theworld, to get my hands on, to
(26:15):
understand you know, some peoplecall it the quantum field, some
people call it, you know, justenergy and frequency, but the
idea that we can connect to moredimensions of our experience,
to help rewrite our experience.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Excellent.
I mean they had a stingoperation.
They had a sting operation,they caught him.
But, because he wasn't actuallycaught with the person he gets
off.
I mean, there's more to it thanthat.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
There's more to it than that.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
If they burst into a room and it's going on that's
got to be.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
They're a lot likely to plea them out right.
There's a lot more evidence andat the same time, there was
multiple defendants in thisparticular case and every one of
them were offered a plea deal.
They don't actually want to trythese cases.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Why not?
Speaker 2 (27:12):
the trial was the one that went to federal court
because that particulardefendant crossed state lines,
and so they crossed state lines,which meant it wasn't in the
state court, and the federalside has a very different way of
approaching these crimesactually and are much more
serious.
But anybody this happens to andit stays in state court 90% of
the time or more.
They get plea deals and it is aminimal amount of jail time.
(27:32):
Now you do TED Talk also,correct?
Speaker 1 (27:42):
yes, I have given a ted talk.
Yes, okay, just one, or justone so far at least.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
I mean same subject obviously yeah, the title is the
healing power of storytelling.
But I tell my story yeah, Iwatch.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
It's great.
You did a great great job.
Thank you.
I don't even know if I shouldsay that I think it's a movie as
far as the story.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Not that.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
I want to bring light to it, but the way they get off
of it is like I think it's amovie that could be made easily
with the storyline.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yes, there is going to be a documentary this year.
That is started.
But, um, if somebody wants tobuy the movie rights, come talk
to me.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Yeah, I mean, I think it'd be.
Let me ask you this, uh, juston a light moment.
Let's say, you know Hollywoodcomes.
Hey, amanda, you know who wouldyou like to star as you in the
movie?
Speaker 2 (28:30):
That's a great question in the movie.
That's a great question, um, Idon't know, maybe like a, like a
reese witherspoon or like a youknow somebody, somebody who has
you know, can play the play the.
The wife that you know is.
I used to be very confident andvery, you know, different.
(28:50):
I was very full of life.
I would need to be somebody whocould do that and also could
play.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
How much darkness I was living with and didn't see
so did the light get sucked outof you after this?
Obviously?
Speaker 2 (29:03):
before that before I had no idea how much the light
was sucked out of me beingmarried to him I had.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
I couldn't see it but he wasn't, but he wasn't a bad
guy.
I mean, I don't want to say hewasn't a bad guy, but you didn't
see.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
No, there was no physical abuse, but there was a
ton, a ton of mental andemotional.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Verbal screaming.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
No screaming, but screaming is not always as
abusive as silence and refusingto come home and not answering
your phone for hours.
And then, when you say that Iwould like to spend time as a
family, being told that yourfeelings are not okay.
And how dare you imply that I'mnot doing everything I can and
(29:44):
withholding any attention oraffection for years, while also
making me feel like I wasn'tparticipating financially and I
wasn't doing enough and thehouse wasn't clean enough.
Those things grade on you and Iwasn't allowed to make
decisions at all.
I wasn't allowed to makedecisions about the house.
I wasn't allowed to makedecisions about the really other
than the day-to-day.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Was he gaslighting without you knowing it?
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yes, absolutely, and I didn't believe my own mind
anymore.
I didn't believe my reality,and even after he was arrested,
we got to the point where hewanted to be on the phone 24-7.
I couldn't have a thoughtwithout him in my ear, and it's
similar to what kidnappingvictims go through with
Stockholm Syndrome, and myentire identity and reality was
(30:28):
shaped by somebody else who wasdoing horrible things, and yet I
didn't know how to existwithout this person.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Yeah, wow, so the I'll wait for the movie, of
course.
Now, nowadays, amazon seems tobe the place to go for a book.
Are there any other avenues foryou to, or for anyone to, grab
the book?
Speaker 2 (30:55):
So Amazon has it?
Yes, I believe it's also gotextended distribution through
Amazon.
So there are, you know, I thinkBarnes and Nobles can have it
and things like that.
I there's some local bookstoreshere in Oregon today that have
it.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Any audio version.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Yes, I recorded the audio version.
It is there.
A lot of people like a lot ofball um, and there's both kindle
and paperback if people preferthat nice, nice.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Let's jump outside the uh seriousness of the
podcast at the moment.
Or subject, I should say um,before we wrap up, I have a
little segment called this orthat.
It's just a preference thing toget to know.
Amanda, you know readers, whathave you?
It's a fun thing.
So, um, for instance,preference, now, this is just
preference, reading or writingreading pizza or pasta pizza,
(31:47):
that's not good.
You need pasta.
No, I like both.
I just a lot of people, a lot ofpeople pick pizza and I'm like
god I love pots, I mean, I loveboth, but pasta being italian is
like it's just yeah anyway umcity or country city dog or cat
(32:10):
cat?
No, I have two yeah, don't,don't tell my dog, but um, this
could be movies or what have you, but fiction or non-fiction uh,
I would say fiction for movies,but non-fiction for books okay,
(32:30):
that's a good answer.
Uh, would you rather travelback in time and I don't mean
your time, like I'm just saying,you know back to whatever, or
back in time or into the future?
future for sure all right, snowor sand sand would you rather
find a magic lamp or a flyingcarpet?
Speaker 2 (32:52):
flying carpet really, because I'm thinking if you
have a magic lamp or a flyingcarpet Flying, carpet.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Really yes, Because I'm thinking if you have a magic
lamp, you could just wish for amagic carpet.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
That's fair but I feel like most wishes you can
create in a different version,but flying.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
That would be cool.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
That would be cool.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
All right.
Lunch date or dinner dateDinner All right.
Last date or dinner date Dinner.
All right, last one Movies orTV.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Movies.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
I'm ready for the movies.
Now so, as you mentioned Amazon, et cetera, you can get the
book.
I mean, I think it's a mustread.
I read some of it because youcan only get a portion of it.
A portion of it, uh uh onlineand uh, and I watched the Ted
talk and all that I mean it's,it's just a fact, it sucks you
in.
It's like come on, let's youknow, let's see what's going to
(33:40):
happen here, um the most commonreview is I couldn't put it down
.
There you go, there you go,that's, that's the, that's the
ad.
I couldn't put it down, but Iappreciate you coming on.
I really do Absolutely.
(34:00):
Thank you so much for having me.
This has been an UnmutedPodcast with Papa Mutes.
You're listening to.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Unmuted with Papa Mutes.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to Papa Mutes , everybody.
Today, my guest is Amanda Quick.
Amanda is an internationalbestselling author.
Her memoir the Sex Trafficker'sWife the story of truth, faith
and trust in yourself shares thebiggest trauma of her life when
her ex-husband was arrested forattempted human trafficking.
You don't want to miss this one.
I'm thrilled to have her on,amanda.
(00:30):
Welcome to Papa Mutes.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Yeah, so this is obviously a sad story.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
But why write a book?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
So after everything was over, after my divorce was
finalized, after the chaos ended, there was a deep calling in me
to speak this story.
There was this realization thatI succeeded at something that
so many people don't.
So many people end up sharingcustody with their abusers and
their children's abusers so manypeople, you know.
(01:05):
The system does not get thingsright, unfortunately, most of
the time.
And not only that, but I livedthrough something so shocking.
It felt like I was, you know,it was better than a Lifetime
movie, kind of just my real life.
And people told me over andover you should write a book.
This is crazy.
And after I succeeded, it wasjust this realization that I had
(01:29):
this understanding that camethrough living through this and
living through it to come outthe other side and be able to
speak into it.
And so it was almost like I hadto tell the story.
I had to write the book.
It was such a strong knowingand even as I was writing it,
(01:52):
the process that I went throughand feeling into it.
And then the research we did.
Nobody has ever written a bookfrom the wife's perspective
about human trafficking not once.
And when I learned that it was,well, I have to.
People need to understandthere's so much more to this
than the victims and theperpetrators and I don't want to
take away from their storiesbut from the wife's perspective,
(02:14):
somebody who truly did not knowwhat was going on and to then
be faced with it, I felt like adifferent type of victim and I
needed to speak into thatexperience for others to both
see themselves as well as tounderstand how much more complex
this is so the story itself.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Well, are there any um, before we get into the story
, uh, any fictional stuff justfor drama, or is it all pure?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
straight.
It is all exactly as it, as ithappened, okay.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
All right, so the story we're not giving away too
much of the book.
What happened, Um, how did ithappen?
I mean, it's uh, it's anamazing story.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
So, uh, back in 2016, I was a full-time stay at home
mom.
My kids were one, four and fivealmost six, and I'd been
married six years.
My husband was.
He worked for a credit cardprocessing company and traveled
for work.
He was in internet security andmy life was what I thought was
(03:19):
normal.
Right, I mean, he worked toomuch, we didn't spend as much
time together as I wanted, but Ihad three young kids.
That was my life and his lifewas providing the financial
means.
And you know, there certainlywas other challenges, but we
didn't really fight and mostlywe didn't discuss anything that
(03:40):
would cause a fight.
But at the time that was a lookat us doing so well.
And one night he just doesn'tcome home from work just I, and
that was unusual.
He was late all the time.
He didn't come home afterbedtime regularly, but never not
come home.
And you know I'm calling hisphone and it starts going
straight to voicemail.
(04:01):
And because he worked so oftenlong hours and often ignored my
phone calls, I was like,whatever he'll show up when he
shows, I'm going to bed.
And I went to bed and I woke upat 2 am and he wasn't there,
and at 5 am he still wasn'tthere and this was when I
realized something had happenedand my mind is spinning and
crazy stories and everything.
And at 5 am, I callednon-emergency dispatch and they
(04:23):
transferred me to the jail,where I learned that he in fact
was there and he had beenarrested for attempted human
trafficking with a $250,000 bond.
Yeah, and so that was thebeginning of what turned into
the next four years ofuncovering and learning and
processing everything that Ididn't know uncovering and
(04:48):
learning and processingeverything that I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
So the first, I mean obviously it's like kaboom, you
know, dui, drugs or something.
It's almost I'm not that that'sacceptable, but it's like okay,
but this is like next levelwhat you know.
So the first, I mean you havekids the first day, the next day
, you know the first couple ofdays.
How stressful, psychotic wasthat.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Oh my gosh.
I mean I, there was no sleeping, I was in a full panic response
.
My mind is racing, I don't.
I don't even know what thecharge really means.
Right, we have this picture inour heads of shipping containers
and borders and I'm wearingthis like small little mountain
top, huh, you know.
And then I'm like trying tobuild a story around.
Is he actually dead?
And somebody stole his wallet?
(05:27):
And they're arrested and, likeyou know, you're trying to.
It makes so no sense toanything.
And then the fear kicks in.
If they think he's involved,are they gonna think I'm
involved?
Because it makes no sense,right?
So my mind is doing all thesecrazy stories and, at the same
time, everything in me.
I'm a very loyal andaction-oriented person, so it's
(05:53):
okay.
He doesn't belong in jail.
Something is wrong.
I have to fix it.
I have to help, I have to.
That's my reaction, is not tobelieve it's true.
Is this?
There's some other explanation,something is wrong.
I have to, I have to takeaction.
So, you know, at 5am, when Ilearned that's where he is, I'm
calling bail bondsman.
(06:13):
So I'm calling lawyers.
Nobody's answering me at 5am,but I'm still calling.
I'm leaving messages.
You know, somebody will call meback in the morning and and the
bail bondsman's actually doanswer the phone at 5am and they
tell you because they want yourbusiness, and the lawyer
actually calls me back at 7am,and so there are people working
early hours, especially in thecriminal world, and you know,
(06:33):
and I start to slowly understandhow the process works, but I
still don't have any information.
And the bail bondsman actuallygoes and checks on him and
because I don't even think it'shim in jail, I'm not even sure
about that.
You know right.
So it's just so.
Much is this impossibility.
Little by little I start to getpieces, and yet it actually
(06:54):
takes almost four years for meto get the full story, because
he wasn't willing to tell me thefull story.
As well as you know the whenpolice are building a case, the
thing people don't realize isfamily members don't get the
evidence.
They're building a case,they're actually trying to get
more evidence from you, and so II don't actually get the full
(07:16):
details until many years laterany criminal, any criminal
history in the past none husband, nope, no nothing wild man type
of thing, nope, I mean he was.
As you know, he was the nerdyguy like it.
Just it made zero sense.
I mean, he told me when we weregot together I was the fourth
(07:37):
person he had ever been with andI was wife number three.
So, like I had built this story, he's not a guy who dates, he
doesn doesn't go to bars, hedoesn't, he doesn't do any of
that Like, not even in thesupposedly like normal male way,
and so just so far around awayfrom who I knew him to be and
(07:57):
who I knew myself to be, thelife that we lived, the
cognitive dissonance andbelieving there was any
possibility of this, was really,really intense.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Now I mean fast forward, looking back, were
there any signs that you saidlike, oh, wait a minute, he
wasn't as nice as I thought?
You know, yes, red flags 100%.
There you go.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Yes, so big red flags .
When I met him I was 18.
He was nine years older than Iwas and he was deeply interested
in my teenage promiscuity, mypictures of me as a teenager.
He also was married to wifenumber two and I was the other
(08:42):
woman for a year Right, I was 19and naive was the other woman
for a year.
Right, I was 19 and naive andbelieved the stories that he
said.
He also, as the relationshipprogressed, wanted me to invite
other men into the bedroom.
He wanted to watch me dodifferent things.
He had all of these sort offantasies that he would test to
(09:04):
see if I would play out becauseI had such a teenage crazy time
and he would actually make mefeel guilty if I didn't want to
do those things.
Because I didn't.
That was not the relationshipthat we had and I didn't want to
bring that energy into thisrelationship and I didn't love
him enough.
And so huge, huge red flags.
(09:25):
But 19, 20 year old me didn'tsee it that way because at 19
and 20, I wasn't even processingwhat had happened to me as a
teenager.
I wasn't refused to be a victim.
I refused to look at any of itas abuse or rape or statutory
anything, even though at 15, 16,these were older men.
(09:46):
So I refused to acknowledge myown past and, if anything, I
romanticized it, which invitedhim to talk about it, be excited
by it and everything else.
And so, looking back, obviously, as I processed and healed in
different ways, I can see howthe teenage version of me was
(10:08):
was, in a lot of ways, stillattracting that type of man, and
once I, once we did officiallyget together and I got married
and had children I was no longerthe one he could share those
things with, and so I built anew story that it was.
It was a different relationshipand we grow, grew up more and
(10:29):
now we're a family, and and Ididn't realize that he then
still needed an escape from thatand that he continued to go
down even darker paths.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
How about family and friends when it was going on?
Did they bail or did theysupport what happened there?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
So his family deeply supported.
His family really wanted me tostay around.
This is not him and if anythingreally kind of leaned into, he
needed me in order to staygrounded and okay.
And so I was so attached to thefamily unit and the belief and
identity that that carried, andso his family was very connected
(11:06):
to that.
My family was much more, yeah,sure and really treading
carefully.
My mom was a marriage and familytherapist and she was, uh,
worked in a lot of treat likeaddiction treatment centers and
she was much more aware of thevarious methods and modalities
and some of the ways people lieand manipulate, and she tried
(11:28):
very hard not to show herjudgment, but I could feel it
and I just actually pushed heraway for a long time.
Friends were cautious, they werecurious and also, you know, I
think there was their own levelof shock and cognitive
dissonance taking place and theywere more concerned about me
and supporting me and my youngchildren and at the same time
(11:51):
recognized that there was somuch they likely didn't know and
so they really kind of kept acautious distance and many of
them later completely cut offany connection to him and if I
was going to stay with him, thenI was also kind of cut off.
But later, as we separated, youknow, they kind of came back
around and shared how confusedin a lot of ways they were as
(12:12):
well there was.
There was only one other personwho chose to believe like I did
for as long as I did.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Now your kids at the time were in school or not.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
No, they were well, they were young.
So the one-year-old wasn't inschool, the four and
five-year-old were in, likepreschool kindergarten.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
And reaction from the other parents.
The school, yeah, so the schoolwas certainly more worried.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
You know there was articles in the paper.
This was public knowledge andso the school was.
You know we had to have theconversation.
We're following the bond hecan't be around schools, he
can't be around other kids, likeall of that going on.
And the school was supportiveof the children.
Thankfully they were very.
You know, our, our, their goalwas to be the safe place for
kids, which I appreciated, andI'm sure they fielded other
(13:02):
parent things, but I was the onewho dropped them off and picked
them up and did all of that andso I think, as long as he
stayed away, the other parents Ididn't really hear any more
from any parents directly andthe school kind of fielded, you
know, ensuring that the kidswere safe and that they were
following all of the protocolsand things like that.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Now, approximately how long down the road did the
kids grab?
Well, the one year old, I guessit took a while, but did they
grasp what happened?
Speaker 2 (13:31):
So they were not told what happened until after we
like four years later he refusedwas one of the big contentious
points in therapy, because I putthe kids in therapy because
there was a lot going on and atthat age it's play therapy.
It's a different, it's sometalk therapy the kids are.
They don't have quite theintellectual or developmental
(13:52):
understanding and the agreementwas that he was going to come up
with an age appropriate way tospeak about this to them, and so
all they knew was daddy was introuble and that he had these
roles.
That's all they knew was daddywas in trouble and that he had
these roles.
That's all they knew, and hecontinued to refuse to disclose
in the way that we agreed thathe would, and it was something
(14:16):
that I ended up having to doonce I got full custody, four
years later.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Did you blame yourself at any time?
I mean I know it sounds weirdbecause you're not doing it, but
yeah, but it's actually anormal thing to blame yourself
at any time.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
I mean, I know it sounds weird because you're not
doing it but yeah, but it'sactually a normal thing to blame
yourself.
Unfortunately, I didn't blamemyself for for not being like a
good enough wife.
I think some people might'vegone there.
You know, I didn't.
I didn't blame myself there.
I later blamed myself for notseeing what I didn't see and
(14:49):
looking back and not ignoringthe red flags, for bailing him
out of jail for, uh, you know,excusing behaviors, for staying
in a relationship and pretendingeverything was totally fine.
You know, I I blamed myselflater for that, for more of the
things that I didn't do ratherthan, um, what I did do as far
(15:11):
as the relationship wasconcerned.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
How long was it going on?
I mean, you don't knowimmediately, but how long was he
doing this for?
Speaker 2 (15:19):
yeah, I mean like so what he told me is that he had
been soliciting adults since hislike, since he was 20 and so
he's, you know, almost 40 at thetime, so 20 years.
He told me that he stopped fora period of time when I, when we
got together, and that itstarted back up when my youngest
(15:40):
or my oldest, I should say wassix months old, and so there's a
couple year window where heclaims it's not happening and
all he would admit to wassoliciting adults.
He would never actually admitto the children, and yet he was
arrested for trying to purchasean 11 and 14 year old and yet he
(16:03):
was arrested for trying topurchase an 11 and 14 year old.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
So I mean, just to be clear, you know, you hear human
, um, yes, trafficking.
So was he finding kids andgiving them to someone else that
took them to another country orsomething like you know, like
so, or was he actually involvedsexually?
Speaker 2 (16:19):
what he is involved sexually, when you're a party to
human trafficking, when you arepurchasing children who cannot
consent, who cannot be owned,and when you're taking
possession of children, you area participant of and a party to
human trafficking.
And so I, I don't have reasonto believe.
Now I also don't know what, Idon't know that he like sold,
(16:41):
resold them off.
I, I, I don't know about that,I don't know how deeply it got.
It's statistically impossiblefor this to be the first time,
even though he claimed that.
Uh, but I do know that he wassexually participating with
people who were not there oftheir own free will.
(17:01):
And this was in your area, Imean where you live currently
Well, not anymore, but yes wherewe lived at the time, which was
a small town in Colorado.
He told me a lot of it alsohappened in Cincinnati, where he
traveled for work quiteregularly.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Geez.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Wow, where is he now, as far as I I know he's exactly
where he was.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
I have had no contact in almost five years now.
No, I mean, is he in jail?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
no, no, no, no, no, no.
So this is a thing people don'trealize.
In privileged white america,men do not go to prison for
trying to purchase children,that's outrageous Not upper
middle class white men, no, no,no, no.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
How the hell does that work?
Speaker 2 (17:47):
He spent two days in jail in the beginning and later
he was given a plea deal and theplea deal pled down to
attempted solicitation of aminor which you still think
would come with jail time, butit didn't.
It was four years of probation,so he received a plea deal.
The goal for most of,unfortunately, the goal that the
prosecution and the DA's officeis, is to get them in what they
(18:10):
believe is treatment and whatthey believe is actually
rehabilitating and so, and eventalking to his lawyers, the most
people get for these crimes is30 to 60 days.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Well, what about the victims?
Did anyone come forward and sayhey, this guy did this, that
and the other thing.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
So nobody came forward that we know the victims
in this particular case werehypothetical victims.
They were not real children andso it was a sting operation
that the FBI and local policedepartment put on.
And so the and they actually dothese quite often.
For this, the stings, you know,set these up, and they, you
(18:50):
know, post an ad, and peoplerespond to the ad and the, the
charges, depending on how, howfar they go through with and he
actually walked away from it.
He didn't complete thetransaction because they did
things outside of the normaloperating procedure you don't
pay first and so he actuallyleft, and he knew all of the
(19:10):
protocol and he knew all of thelanguage, and they didn't follow
the protocol, and because therewas no actual children to hand
over.
Because there was no actualchildren to hand over, and the
thing about this, though, isthey're trying to get them off
the street, they're trying toget them in treatment, but what
ends up happening is theyactually end up with no
(19:33):
consequences.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
That's crazy.
I mean unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Oh yeah, and well, here's another one for you.
In the state of Colorado, theconstitutional right to parent
is not removed for sex offenders, and so he had his full
constitutional rights to his ownchildren, which means when he
pled guilty to attemptedsolicitation of a minor, he was
able to move back into the homeand have unrestricted access to
his children, not to otherchildren.
He had rules and restrictionson schools and other things.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
I was going to say is he listed as an offender?
Speaker 2 (20:04):
He is listed as a sex offender?
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Yes, Wherever he goes .
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Yes, that will continue with him for up to
potentially he could actually inColorado you can apply to get
off the offender list after 10years, but even more so.
What that meant is once Istarted to wake up and see more
of the truth.
I then had a custody fight infront of me because the criminal
case was not relevant in thefamily court case.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Wow, all right.
So yeah, you fast.
I mean I'm sure there's othertidbits in the book that are
kind of blew through it.
Um, that's the gist of it, andhe's just out there and you're
doing your thing, hopefully in ahappy way, and the children
good.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
The children are good .
So today they're 10, 12 and 14,so it's been with you a lot
with and they're with me ahundred percent.
Uh, in 2020, I received fullcustody and he has had no
contact with them or me, and I'mcoming up on five years.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Now in the book, are you using fictitious names or
Only?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
for I use his name and everybody else's names are
changed.
He, his crime, is public recordas well as so is our divorce,
and so it felt weird to bothcite newspaper articles and not
have his real name in there.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Right.
So what is the Golden HavenFoundation?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Yes, so that is a 5013C that I started and truly,
to be completely transparent,still starting and working
towards understanding how tofund nonprofits.
But the biggest thing that Itook away that is missing from
the system is the privilege ittakes to fight for safety for
(21:55):
yourself and your children inabusive situations with family
court, and the reality that somany people end up sharing
custody with their abusers andtheir children's abusers and
this happens every day all overthe world that people with
whoever has money is going to bemore likely to succeed in a
family court case because youdon't get a you don't even get a
public defender in a familycourt case, and when the
(22:16):
situations of domestic violenceand abuse sexual abuse case, and
when the situations of domesticviolence and abuse, sexual
abuse, you still have to gothrough the process, and it is
actually the victim's job toeducate the judge and jury if
there is one, on trauma andtrauma bonding, and so the
foundation's goal is to bothhelp people come to the mental
and emotional place where theyactually can have the fight.
(22:37):
Because it wasn't the moneythat succeeded in my case.
Money got me in the door, but Iactually had to completely
change my beliefs inside inorder to have the energy to have
this fight and to succeed, andso the foundation's goal is to
both be educating as well as getto the point where we can offer
cash grants to help pay forlegal fees, because that doesn't
(22:58):
exist today.
There's women's shelters,there's food, insecurity places,
but nobody is helping with thelegal battle.
And I will say something thatpeople don't realize is that
human trafficking exists inevery single town in this
country, and people do not haveany idea how prevalent it is.
The reality that nobody knowsis that it is under so many.
(23:19):
It seems like these are justfamily towns or things like that
, but it is everywhere, and youlikely know somebody who is both
who is a participant and or avictim of this and you know, the
sex industry is everywhere andthis, unfortunately, is
something that we think ismostly in other countries and we
(23:41):
think it's this foreign problem.
But the opposite is true.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Can't judge a book by its cover, so to speak.
I mean, yeah, man, I mean, whatis it?
I saw this in research anenergy healer yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
So after I got out of the situation, um, it was it.
Not only was this a realizationof you know the what I needed
to do, what this process was,but it was actually a very
spiritual awakening as well.
It was a really spiritualmoment of realizing the power
that I held and the ways that Icould not just manifest but come
(24:24):
to an entirely different way ofbeing, because there was a very
long period of time during thecustody hearing that I was very
likely going to end up sharingcustody with a man who was
already beginning to sexuallygroom his own children and I
couldn't proving that.
Because grooming nothing quitehappens.
We're just crossing boundaries,little by little, we're moving
those lines and in family court,you have to prove something
(24:44):
already bad enough has happenedthat you can prove in order to
justify taking away rights.
And so I was really like thewriting was on the wall that
this was just going to continue.
And something happened within methat changed that, and it was
an internal shift where Irealized that I wasn't being
accountable for my part in notseeing what was in front of me,
(25:08):
on choosing this, on not wantingto be in this situation, on
keeping any connection to theirfather, because I still wanted
to believe that there wasanother explanation.
And not being accountable tothose pieces was, in a lot of
ways, what kept this situationstuck.
And when I flipped that andswitched it, just like weeks
later, everything was differentand evidence was different and I
(25:31):
listened to things differently.
And so it was this big kind ofawakening and understanding and
the power that I held in thesesituations and that we all hold
in.
Despite being victims, we stillhave the power.
Right, it's not our fault whathappens to us, but it is our
responsibility to change and tocome out of it.
And so that sort of awakeningand understanding sent me on a
(25:51):
very spiritual journey tounderstand trauma on a deeper
level, and so to understandtrauma not just on a physical
level but on a mental andemotional and spiritual level,
and the way that these patternsrepeat in families, the way
these patterns repeat in theworld, to get my hands on, to
(26:15):
understand you know, some peoplecall it the quantum field, some
people call it, you know, justenergy and frequency, but the
idea that we can connect to moredimensions of our experience,
to help rewrite our experience.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Excellent.
I mean they had a stingoperation.
They had a sting operation,they caught him.
But, because he wasn't actuallycaught with the person he gets
off.
I mean, there's more to it thanthat.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
There's more to it than that.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
If they burst into a room and it's going on that's
got to be.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
They're a lot likely to plea them out right.
There's a lot more evidence andat the same time, there was
multiple defendants in thisparticular case and every one of
them were offered a plea deal.
They don't actually want to trythese cases.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Why not?
Speaker 2 (27:12):
the trial was the one that went to federal court
because that particulardefendant crossed state lines,
and so they crossed state lines,which meant it wasn't in the
state court, and the federalside has a very different way of
approaching these crimesactually and are much more
serious.
But anybody this happens to andit stays in state court 90% of
the time or more.
They get plea deals and it is aminimal amount of jail time.
(27:32):
Now you do TED Talk also,correct?
Speaker 1 (27:42):
yes, I have given a ted talk.
Yes, okay, just one, or justone so far at least.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
I mean same subject obviously yeah, the title is the
healing power of storytelling.
But I tell my story yeah, Iwatch.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
It's great.
You did a great great job.
Thank you.
I don't even know if I shouldsay that I think it's a movie as
far as the story.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Not that.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
I want to bring light to it, but the way they get off
of it is like I think it's amovie that could be made easily
with the storyline.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yes, there is going to be a documentary this year.
That is started.
But, um, if somebody wants tobuy the movie rights, come talk
to me.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Yeah, I mean, I think it'd be.
Let me ask you this, uh, juston a light moment.
Let's say, you know Hollywoodcomes.
Hey, amanda, you know who wouldyou like to star as you in the
movie?
Speaker 2 (28:30):
That's a great question in the movie.
That's a great question, um, Idon't know, maybe like a, like a
reese witherspoon or like a youknow somebody, somebody who has
you know, can play the play the.
The wife that you know is.
I used to be very confident andvery, you know, different.
(28:50):
I was very full of life.
I would need to be somebody whocould do that and also could
play.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
How much darkness I was living with and didn't see
so did the light get sucked outof you after this?
Obviously?
Speaker 2 (29:03):
before that before I had no idea how much the light
was sucked out of me beingmarried to him I had.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
I couldn't see it but he wasn't, but he wasn't a bad
guy.
I mean, I don't want to say hewasn't a bad guy, but you didn't
see.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
No, there was no physical abuse, but there was a
ton, a ton of mental andemotional.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Verbal screaming.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
No screaming, but screaming is not always as
abusive as silence and refusingto come home and not answering
your phone for hours.
And then, when you say that Iwould like to spend time as a
family, being told that yourfeelings are not okay.
And how dare you imply that I'mnot doing everything I can and
(29:44):
withholding any attention oraffection for years, while also
making me feel like I wasn'tparticipating financially and I
wasn't doing enough and thehouse wasn't clean enough.
Those things grade on you and Iwasn't allowed to make
decisions at all.
I wasn't allowed to makedecisions about the house.
I wasn't allowed to makedecisions about the really other
than the day-to-day.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Was he gaslighting without you knowing it?
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yes, absolutely, and I didn't believe my own mind
anymore.
I didn't believe my reality,and even after he was arrested,
we got to the point where hewanted to be on the phone 24-7.
I couldn't have a thoughtwithout him in my ear, and it's
similar to what kidnappingvictims go through with
Stockholm Syndrome, and myentire identity and reality was
(30:28):
shaped by somebody else who wasdoing horrible things, and yet I
didn't know how to existwithout this person.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Yeah, wow, so the I'll wait for the movie, of
course.
Now, nowadays, amazon seems tobe the place to go for a book.
Are there any other avenues foryou to, or for anyone to, grab
the book?
Speaker 2 (30:55):
So Amazon has it?
Yes, I believe it's also gotextended distribution through
Amazon.
So there are, you know, I thinkBarnes and Nobles can have it
and things like that.
I there's some local bookstoreshere in Oregon today that have
it.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Any audio version.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Yes, I recorded the audio version.
It is there.
A lot of people like a lot ofball um, and there's both kindle
and paperback if people preferthat nice, nice.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Let's jump outside the uh seriousness of the
podcast at the moment.
Or subject, I should say um,before we wrap up, I have a
little segment called this orthat.
It's just a preference thing toget to know.
Amanda, you know readers, whathave you?
It's a fun thing.
So, um, for instance,preference, now, this is just
preference, reading or writingreading pizza or pasta pizza,
(31:47):
that's not good.
You need pasta.
No, I like both.
I just a lot of people, a lot ofpeople pick pizza and I'm like
god I love pots, I mean, I loveboth, but pasta being italian is
like it's just yeah anyway umcity or country city dog or cat
(32:10):
cat?
No, I have two yeah, don't,don't tell my dog, but um, this
could be movies or what have you, but fiction or non-fiction uh,
I would say fiction for movies,but non-fiction for books okay,
(32:30):
that's a good answer.
Uh, would you rather travelback in time and I don't mean
your time, like I'm just saying,you know back to whatever, or
back in time or into the future?
future for sure all right, snowor sand sand would you rather
find a magic lamp or a flyingcarpet?
Speaker 2 (32:52):
flying carpet really, because I'm thinking if you
have a magic lamp or a flyingcarpet Flying, carpet.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Really yes, Because I'm thinking if you have a magic
lamp, you could just wish for amagic carpet.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
That's fair but I feel like most wishes you can
create in a different version,but flying.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
That would be cool.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
That would be cool.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
All right.
Lunch date or dinner dateDinner All right.
Last date or dinner date Dinner.
All right, last one Movies orTV.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Movies.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
I'm ready for the movies.
Now so, as you mentioned Amazon, et cetera, you can get the
book.
I mean, I think it's a mustread.
I read some of it because youcan only get a portion of it.
A portion of it, uh uh onlineand uh, and I watched the Ted
talk and all that I mean it's,it's just a fact, it sucks you
in.
It's like come on, let's youknow, let's see what's going to
(33:40):
happen here, um the most commonreview is I couldn't put it down
.
There you go, there you go,that's, that's the, that's the
ad.
I couldn't put it down, but Iappreciate you coming on.
I really do Absolutely.
(34:00):
Thank you so much for having me.
This has been an UnmutedPodcast with Papa Mutes.
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