The Green Children of Woolpit

Paranormal Lens Podcast - Season 2, Episode 29: The Green Children of Woolpit

Step into the realm of mystery and legend as host Chad Thomas explores one of history’s strangest tales—the Green Children of Woolpit! This bizarre medieval legend tells the story of two children with green skin who appeared in an English village, speaking an unknown language and claiming to be from a mysterious land.

Co-host Jamie Widener joins in as they break down the origins of this eerie folktale, the possible explanations behind the story, and its lasting impact on paranormal and historical discussions. Were they lost travelers from another world, survivors of an undiscovered civilization, or something even more mysterious?

Available on Spotify, Apple, Audible, and all major streaming platforms!

Tune in for a fascinating discussion filled with history, folklore, and theories as we attempt to unravel the centuries-old mystery of the Green Children of Woolpit!

A special Thank You toThe Historic UK website, for granting us permission to use one of their videos in our presentation. If you want a sneak peak at the video, you can check it out onYouTube

Episode Transcript

(00:32):
The. Good evening and welcome to the
Paranormal Lens with myself, Chad Thomas and Jamie Widener.
We're part of Jotnik's Paranormal and every Tuesday

(00:53):
night we are live here with you and here we are.
So Jamie, what's going on? How do you know if you're live?
Interesting, huh? True, yeah.
Yeah, well, we are so there. We are live, yeah.
Dude, I am great. It has been a fantastic week, a
wonderful weekend, a lot of coolthings going on and we're back.

(01:17):
Here we go, you know. So I want to 1st, I want to tell
you this, I had the chance on Saturday evening and I alluded
to this last week at the end of our episode.
I think that to go out to the Ritz Theatre Company in Haddon
Township, NJ for a their headliner series featuring Ronny

(01:38):
Akavetti and Lourdes Gonzalez with the digital seance
experience as a it's a ticketed event.
So you know, you know, it's opento the public, kind of like what
we do with our our events at Booby's Brewery.
And I got myself a ticket. I rolled in weather be dammed
Saturday as it was. I knew I was going to get there.
I wasn't sure I was going to gethome and well, I did, obviously

(02:03):
with that, I was pleasantly surprised to run into Todd and
Carmelo, Carmelo, Carmelo, the new, new version of that.
And the Frankie Deo runs the program there.
So we know Frankie well, of course, Ron and Lourdes and and
a few others that I I got to know.

(02:25):
And I got to tell you the the theatre is fantastic.
It was in between shows. It's working theatre.
So they were, you know, teared out for the old show and then
setting up for Kinky Boots, which opens Friday night.
And yeah, Camille, thank you. Thanks, Todd.
Goodness. I learned some things about
people I didn't know. You know, one of them is that

(02:47):
Carmela actually has a fantasticHan Solo is a live theory that
you're going to have to have a conversation with her about
sometime. And Todd, Todd and I debunked
some some orb stuff. So we'll show that perhaps
another time. I didn't get a chance to get it
in a place where we could see ittonight.
So, but more on that. There's some actual good audio

(03:11):
evidence there. And yet, Todd, I can't wait to
get there one of these days. I'm serious, do we got to go we
the team, everybody, anybody, however we do it, we got to get
there had a fantastic experience.
You know, and it doesn't hurt tohave the digital seance
experience. You know it is.
I don't think I can. It won't be harmed to say this,

(03:33):
but it is what was Once Upon a time Staticom as we know it.
You know, a rift is split between the factions there.
The the West Coast is like it's like a rap get war here.
East Coast, West Coast, you know, the the process, though,
is still very much the same. You know, technology and
software used to capture digitalvoice phenomenon.

(03:53):
It is point on run tweaked it aswe went.
We got to the end of the toward the end of the evening and I've,
I've never heard it be so clear and, and, you know, obvious
audio coming through, so outstanding.
We and we, we did have, you know, we, we investigated the
theater. Of course, there's a space in
the basement that we were at. We were actually told to be

(04:14):
quiet down there in the old orchestra pit.
So you know, you know, typical theater person, right?
Yep, exactly. And then some upstairs spaces
backstage. Just a really, really cool
place, so. So I did notice that the Ritz is
doing a Valentine's investigation.
If you want to go see the show and do an investigation, I think

(04:36):
it was $40 per ticket. It is a ridiculously low price
of $40 to see Kinky Boots as a show and hang out for a little
after with the cast as you know as they roll out and then stay
to investigate until the wee hours of the morning.
Yeah, seems a good ticket to seethe show alone is ridiculously
inexpensive for the quality of production they have there.

(04:58):
You know, that that's just amazing.
And it's it's 15 minutes outsideof Philadelphia.
So, you know, anybody in the metro area, anybody in the
tri-state area, easy to get to. And I'm I'm going to keep
plugging it until I'm blue in the face.
It is. It was just it's a really cool
place. The other, the other side of
that though, and, and, you know,being a good weekend in general,

(05:18):
you know, I, I, I rolled home at, you know, 233 O clock in the
morning or so coming through Philly and I could not help but
notice that the entire city was lit up in green.
Well, there was a thing called the Super Bowl, and I'm not sure
if you're aware of what. That is, but yeah, yeah, that's.
The NFL championship game happened Sunday evening and hell

(05:39):
yeah, Philly, Philly, the Eagleswon a Big 1 and in a blowout
fashion. So it was a great, great, great
weekend, right? And that, you know, of course I
paid for it Monday morning, but I wasn't the only one, right?
So. But that's a lot about me and
what I did. So what about you?
What? What?
Speaking of sports though, Jamie, do you know what what

(06:00):
happened today? Oh, today.
No. I I.
Did my Hatters reported Oh. Yes, it's that time.
It's spring training. So cool.
You know, I, I, I always lament that there was the week in
between the, the champion, you know, the NFC and AFC
championship games in the Super Bowl, that extra week that's

(06:23):
just like the lull. But it does extend the season
just enough so there's not a biggap for baseball to start.
Right. You know.
I know football and hockey or I'm sorry, football, basketball
and hockey are going on, you know, and all that stuff.
But, you know, and I like all sports, so I'll watch anything
when it's on. But you know, baseball, getting
baseball started is is such a positive sign for spring to be

(06:45):
on the horizon. We are now a week away from from
Groundhog Day. So now we've got five weeks to
go, right? Baseball gets started, and then
that gets us that extra nudge toward.
It the Grapefruit League will behere anytime.
You know, we got that one. And I, I used to live in the
West Coast. So, you know, the, the Cactus
League is a thing too with all the West Coast.

(07:06):
And then, you know, the mid country teams go ahead, head
down to Arizona and it's, it's so much fun there too.
It's not, it's not Florida because there's not the beach
and the water and all that stuffas you get on both sides of the
coast there. But it is still pretty cool to
have baseball happening in the middle of February.
So yeah, let's make it happen. No fills.

(07:28):
Yeah, can't wait. So well, it sounds.
Like your weekend? Anything going on this week?
No, unfortunately I was not travelling because we were going
to do an investigation this weekend and I was not travelling
out of the area. And we, we decided not to go out
because one of the investigatorspulled out of his driveway, got
to his intersection, spun out, said I'm going home, almost was

(07:52):
hit. And I was like, Nope, not going
to do it. So we're going to put that
investigation off. But maybe you can join us now.
Jamie, Yeah, that means I get to, I get to do it.
So, you know, it was a tough choice, an unexplored place in
in our regional area here in South Central PA once, once, but
now currently a vacant private residence.

(08:14):
It's only a matter of time untilsomeone comes in, I guess.
So timing might be of the essence, but you know, that's
really cool when you get to be the first one in a place.
You know, we've we've done a fewthis way, obviously we've done
private investigations for people, but we've also done some
public buildings and public spaces that are the first time.
And, you know, you just never know what you're going to get,

(08:35):
so. Apparently the residents have
been giving plenty while they were there, So, So we'll see.
But anyway, you were talking about, you know, promoting the
theater until you were blue in the face, right?
I, I picked up on that. Yeah.
But we're not going to talk about being blue in the face.
We're going to be talking about people being green tonight.

(08:58):
I thought you might be taking the the city was lit up in green
and gone with that. Instead, Oh no, that would have
been. That would have worked too, but
not not not going there. Right.
Good, good call. So tonight we're going to dig
into a medieval tale called The Green Children of Wolpit.

(09:19):
We're going to talk about where it likely originated, some of
the different interpretations and possibly the significant of
the legend. And of course, we'll get to
discuss whether or not it's paranormal or not, right?
So when I was looking for information around for the
background of the story, I came across the Historic UK website.

(09:42):
I would definitely check it out.There's some really cool stuff
there. I know Burt and Heather like to,
you know, go over to that part of the the world and stay.
They have castles you can stay in.
There's all sorts of stuff like that.
But they also have some of the historic tales of things.
They, they had an article about the Green children of Woolpit
and I liked it, but they also had a video that I enjoyed.

(10:05):
They didn't have video cameras back when the story took place,
Jamie. So it's not real footage.
I'm just going to put that up front, but it does give good
background information. So I reached out to them about
using the video and a couple days later they reached back out
and said they checked out some of our episodes, that they were
going to be following us now because what we were doing was
right up their alley. And.

(10:29):
It's a dark and spooky alley. This is true, but we were
welcome to use the video as longas we gave them credit.
So we're going to do that. I'm going to go ahead and roll
the the video. It's about two minutes, so we'll
see what it is. Ever heard of the green children
of Walpit? Young siblings with green skin,

(10:50):
speaking an unknown language andclaiming to be from an
underground world? The tale originates from the
village of Walpit in Suffolk, England, during the 12th
century. According to historical
accounts, the villagers stumbledupon a brother and sister who
emerged from seemingly nowhere, wandering near the outskirts of

(11:11):
the village. The two children, a boy and a
girl, bore a peculiar feature that gave rise to their curious
moniker. Their skin was tinged with a
shade of green. The children's strange
appearance was not their only remarkable characteristic.
They spoke a language that no one in Woolpit could understand,

(11:32):
and their clothing was fashionedfrom unfamiliar materials.
The youngsters appeared disorientated and frightened,
and when offered food, they refused everything except for
green beans. They maintained their green hue,
which only further heightened the mystique surrounding them.
Intrigued, the villagers took the children in, and over time

(11:53):
they began to adapt to their newsurroundings.
As they learned English and integrated into the community,
they revealed that they held from a subterranean world where
everything was bathed in perpetual twilight.
They described a place called Saint Martin's Land, where the
sun never shone and the people had green skin like them.

(12:14):
They explained that they had become lost when they followed a
herd of livestock into a cave. After wandering through a
tunnel, they emerged into the unfamiliar daylight of All Pit.
The boy eventually succumbed to illness and passed away, leaving
the girl as the sole survivor ofthis strange journey from
another realm. As she grew older, her skin lost

(12:36):
its green hue, and Agnes, as she'd become known, married the
Archdeacon of Ely, Richard Barr.According to one report, the
pair had at least one child. Ever heard of the Green?
So it's kind of interesting to start out with, isn't it?
Yeah. Wow.

(12:57):
So. What's, what's the what's the
timeline of this in in history? OK, we're, we're talking about
11, about 11:50. So we'll get we'll I'll cover
that here. So we're going to recap the the
video, maybe deep dive a little deeper into it.
So we're talking about a villagelocated near Suffolk, England,

(13:17):
which is I believe eastern England called Woolpit.
The name probably came from an interpretation of the old
English word for wolf pits that were located at the edge of the
village. So they had these pits to catch
wild animals to keep them from wandering into the village.
Apparently the date is somewherearound 11:50, which is the

(13:38):
during the rule of King Stephen or Stephen.
The time, this time in English history was very rocky and also
known as the Anarchy. Now, according to the text, and
my latin's not that good, but I'm going to try here.
So, according to the text in Historia Rareum Anglicarum,
during the harvest, while the reapers were employed in

(14:01):
gathering in the produce of the fields, two children, a boy and
a girl, completely green in their persons and clad in
garments of a strange color and unknown material, emerged from
these wolf pits. So, as you can imagine with the
story this old, there are several variations, but there
seems to be some common themes. Some of the information is

(14:24):
believed to have been documentedby Ralph of Cagashal, an English
chronicler who was a monk and went on to be an Abbot.
The children were taken to the home of a knight called Sir
Richard D Calm and he took charge of their care.
He tried to offer them food, butthey refused everything that he
had prepared. After several days, the children

(14:47):
discovered either broad beans orgreen beans growing in the
garden. Upon finding the raw beans, the
children immediately immediatelydevoured them and as time went
on, the children slowly adapted to eating other things.
As they ate a wider variety of foods, the green color slowly
left their skin. Over time the children were able

(15:08):
to learn English, and when they were able to speak fluently they
were asked about where they camefrom.
It is believed that what they had to say was documented as
follows. We are inhabitants of the land
of Saint Martin, who is regardedwith peculiar veneration in the
country which gave us birth. We are ignorant of how we

(15:29):
arrived. We only remember this, that on a
certain day, when we were feeding our fathers flocks in
the field, we heard a great sound, such as we are now
accustomed to here at St. Edmunds, when the bells are
chiming. And whilst whilst listening to
the sound and admiration we became on a, we became on a

(15:49):
sudden, as it were, entranced, and found ourselves among you in
the fields where you were reaping.
The sun does not shine upon our countrymen.
Our land is little cheered by its beams.
We are contented with the twilight, which among you
precedes the sunrise or follows the sunset.
Moreover, a certain luminous country is seen not far distant

(16:12):
from ours and divided from it bya very considerable river.
So after this revelation, Sir Richard decided it was time to
have the children baptized in the local church.
It is believed shortly after thebaptism the boy fell ill and
passed away. We do not know what the illness
was. The little girl known as Agnes

(16:33):
stayed in Sir Richard Dikran's household and worked for him.
Here is one place where some of the story starts.
It seemed like they differ. Some say that the boy died
before he told of their homelandand only Agnes was baptized and
that she was. That's when she was named.
It is rumored that Agnes was loose and wanton, but she

(16:54):
eventually married a the Archdeacon of Ely, Richard Barr,
and it is believed that they hadat least one child together.
Agnes reportedly went on to livea fairly normal life.
Now this is all the history we have on the children.
There is, you know, people have done genealogical research and
found that Richard Barr was married to an Agnes.

(17:20):
And so there there is some some things backing up this timeline
a little bit. So the question is, what if any
of this story is true? Earlier my I mentioned the story
was documented by Ralph of Cagashal the first, but the

(17:40):
first account I quoted was written by William of Newburgh.
He was an Augustine Canon, or a priest who lived among the
people. William recorded the story in
his historian Rerum Anglicarum or The History of English
Affairs, circa 1189. In this he cites reports from a

(18:00):
numerous number of trustworthy sources as the sources for his
information. Ralph chronicled his story in
Chronicum Anglicanum and his information is accredited to Sir
Richard D Kahn of Wykes, which the children actually lived with
now chroniclers during the medieval period.
We're known for sharing information and we can find

(18:23):
verbatim accounts of things in different people's works.
But in this case, the stories are close but not exactly the
same. The two men lived about 25 miles
apart, so they were not likely to be sharing work with each
other. Some believe that this gives
support to the story being true.So if these children were real

(18:43):
and they were discovered climbing out or near the wolf
pits, where do they come from? This is where there is no
agreement and no real answers have been discovered.
In the 875 years there have beenseveral theories that have been
floated. 1 Popular theory is they were children of Flemish
immigrants. The Flemish settled in eastern

(19:04):
England during the first part ofthe 12th century, but they were
persecuted when Henry the Secondstarted to rule England, which
was right after King Stephen. So it is possible that the
children were tending their families livestocks when they
wandered off. If they were lost and didn't
know how to get home, they may have kept travelling until they
found a village. Not only speaking their native

(19:26):
language, communications with the locals would have been near
impossible. As for the green skin, there is
a condition called hypochromaticanemia, also known as chlorosis
or green sickness that is attributed to dietary
deficiencies. If the Flemish didn't have
enough to eat or were eating thewrong things, it is entirely

(19:47):
possible that they could. This could have been the case.
Another point that ties into this theory is that some of the
Flemish settled in an area near Fornham St.
Martin this north of Bury St. Edmunds.
So this could have been the reason the children refer to
Saint Martin's land as their home.
Another theory along these linesis that the children may have

(20:09):
been poisoned with an arsenic and left to die, which would
also account for this the green tone to their skin.
So that's one theory. Another theory is based on the
facts that several stories of the era have similar themes.
Gerald of Wales tells a similar story about a boy who
encountered 2 pygmies who led him through an underground

(20:30):
passage into a beautiful land with fields and rivers, but not
lit by the full light of the sun.
This one leans more towards the paranormal and ties into the
folklore of England and Wales and talks about passing through
a cave into another world. There are also tales of an
English in English folklore of inhabitants of lower worlds

(20:51):
visiting mortals and continuing to live with them.
This can be found in EW Bachmann's book Type and Motive
Index of the Folklore of Englandand North America Now.
It's an inversion of common fairy tale motive, immortals
traveling to fairy land and living there for various periods
of time, either willingly or not.
But the fact that the children came from underground is

(21:14):
important, as the fairies are commonly thought to reside under
the earth, usually beneath hollow hills, burial mounds, and
also in caves. The strange description of the
world always being always in twilight also fits with many
folkloric descriptions of an underground fairy land.
Now with this in mind, the storymay be jumbled.

(21:35):
A jumbled attempt to overlay fairy tale motifs with a
historical incident, as it does seem like both.
Like I said, both of the chroniclers went that that
route, but the children do not seem to have any powers like
most fairies or folklore, you know, entities would.

(22:01):
So they really seem more like lost human children than
fairies. But there's always that
possibility. Speaking of possibilities, we
always have the option that it could have been extraterrestrial
beings, yes. So the Ancient Origins website
has an article in the Children and talks of this theory.

(22:24):
In his 2012 book Children of theSky, Duncan Lunan presents an
unorthodox theory of alien intervention in the 12th century
England. Luning goes into considerably
more historical detail than any other writer on the subject, and
his close reading of the historical sources teases out
the context of the story and characters involved.

(22:47):
Of particular importance is an interpretation of the original
texts, pointing out the usages of language by the two medieval
chroniclers and how the originalLatin may have been skewed by
later translators and story summaries.
But the historical detective work soon gives way to a
speculative interpretation that ties into the Templar Knights.

(23:08):
It is helpful to realize that Lunan identified Sir Richard D
Calm as a Templar Knight. He believes that the Templars
were in contact with alien civilizations who were abducting
abducting humans to populate a colony world.
A world where it was always twilight due to a synchronous
orbit orbit, and where genetically modified algae

(23:30):
turned the inhabitants green. The green children are part of a
colony and were accidentally transported to Earth due to a
matter transmitter malfunction. Yes, Jamie, I said.
A matter transmitter malfunction.
It happens. I think it can happen right now.
Yeah, it sounds crazy, but the sci-fi angle taken by Lunan is a

(23:51):
lot of fun and allows some free thinking speculation on the
oddities of the story. OK, sure, there's that option.
Now, in other episodes we've talked about how sometimes
folklore is used to teach lessons, right?
Yep. So is that a possibility with
this story? Further into an article on

(24:11):
ancient origins, they dive into this thought and I'm going to
read directly from their websiteand starts here.
However, as usual with folk tales, deeper meaning can be
read into the story by asking what it is telling us about the
human condition. A follower of the Carl Jung
school of psychoanalysis would immediately spot the archetypes

(24:32):
of the outsiders. The children were green, came
from an unknown and strange landand spoke no known language.
They re represented an otherworldly intrusion into the
regular consensus reality of the12th century.
Villagers they may have been. They may have been treated as a
threat in a time of Christian fundamentalism.

(24:55):
Their fate may have been seen asa demonic being in need of
persecution. Things could have ended badly
for them, but they were also vulnerable and frightened, and
the story is never about the threat of outsiders, but rather
of the tolerance and the kindness to them.
As has already been discussed, there have been large scale
immigrations into eastern England through the 12th century

(25:17):
and communities that have been forced to come to terms with
foreign ideas and behaviors within the space of two or three
generations. In the case of the green
children, they were accepted, protected and then integrated
into the dominant society. We can see the story as a
folkloric method of teaching tolerance to outsider of
outsiders by using an archetypical concept.

(25:41):
So I'll let you think about thatfor a minute.
So while you think about that, Jamie, I'm going to cite some
sources. First of all, again, I want to
thank the team at Historic UK website for allowing me to use
their video. You can check them out at
historic-uk.com and I'll put a link to them in the comments
after the show. I also, I also used

(26:03):
allthatsinteresting.com, explorersweb.com in
ancient-origins.net. So we have several theories to
dig into. We get to question whether or
not they existed, if it is just folklore, if there's anything
paranormal or not. But I what I think is really
interesting is we have two separate accounts from two

(26:23):
people whose job it was to document events.
To do just that, right? Yeah, I really want to believe
that it happened and that they lived in a subterranean world
and then something LED them to the surface.
But the skeptic of me says no. But to William of Newburgh, it
doesn't matter what we think. And part of his chronicles about

(26:44):
the children, he wrote let everyone say as he pleases and
reason on such matters accordingto his abilities.
I feel no regret at having recorded an event so prodigious
and miraculous. So was there a clue there?
And what he said to wrap it up? I don't know, Jamie, what do you

(27:05):
think? Maybe right.
That's like anything we, we can,you know, as, as time moves
forward, you know, we can alwaysgo back to things and, and
second guess it, third guess it.You know, the the source isn't
available to, to, to clear it up.
Wow, you know, there, there's somuch to unpack here.

(27:28):
I you know what, what keeps coming to my mind is, and I'm
going to go back to my youth andyours as well.
Yeah, we were, we're in the era of this, but somewhere in the
late 70s, I think it was the theshow Land of the Lost.
OK, Sid, Sid Croft production. You know, people get somehow go,

(27:48):
it's like journey to the center of the earth, kinda.
They get pulled into this other,other realm underground
somewhere there's green Slee stacks, if I remember them
correctly, like reptilian humanoids that were green, you
know, there's dinosaurs, but there isn't, you know, this
whole other world that's in our world, you know, And then if I

(28:10):
have to find a way back, you know, journey to Center Earth,
there's another tale of it, you know, the concept that we go
somewhere subterranean, we find this whole other place we didn't
know existed. I mean, go forward even into the
Matrix movie. So it's presented there, you
know that, that there is this whole other place.
It's a recurring theme and and so much of.
Yeah. So that means it comes from

(28:31):
somewhere, right? I mean, sort of anyway, you
know, it's, it's it's at least enough of a theory that it has
legs to carry itself forward, you know, and we keep rebooting
it to something else. So maybe.
Right. What I didn't hear and I, I get
the I understand what the wolf pits were at.
That was a natural defense around a lot of villages,

(28:52):
especially in in the rural areaswhere there was just a lot of
wildlife, a lot of predator wildlife.
You know, people wanted to keep their their sheep and their
livestock safe, you know, all that stuff.
So they would bring him into thevillage, you know, at night.
The pits were meant that, you know, the gate was there as
well. They probably had some kind of
wall, not unusual for the era medieval times.

(29:12):
But you know, the the idea that the kids came out of one of them
means that there had to be in a cave of some kind of some entry
point, exit point in this case, which means there would be an
entry point. You know what I didn't hear in
any of the stories? Is anybody finding that place
where they came from truly anyway, you know, because, you
know, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm not going too far out on a limb to

(29:33):
say this, but if I found, you know, if I had contact with
these kids and you know, I, theytold me they came from the
place, you know, I would go lookfor the place I.
We know David would. Well, I hell yeah, right.
I would too. I'd be right next to yeah, yeah,
I'd push him. I'd push him in first, though.
But, you know, it's, it's one ofthose things.
It's one of those things where, you know, every time there's a

(29:55):
cave or a nook or a cranny or something, you know, I'm poking
my head in it, you know, at thispoint, because these kids had to
have come from somewhere. Right.
So and, and you know, one, one person brought up, they couldn't
have come from the wolf pits because you know, a wolf pit
would have been two or three meters deep.
You know a a child. There's no way.
We can't climb out. It's it's, you know, it's not a
cavern or anything, right? So I, I appreciate the theory of

(30:18):
it. And I guess there have to, you
know, we have to explain things right, You know, and and we've
talked about this so many times with folklore, how the story
changes over and over, you know,because the the teller is the
hero of the next version of it, you know, so they tell it their
way to make it, you know, make them be the hero of it.
So, you know, it's whisper down the lane, but then, you know,

(30:40):
hundreds of years worth of it. So, you know, and there is no,
you know, you said it really well or early on.
There's no pictures of them. There's no, you know, video of
them. You know, the things that we
would currently use as as, you know, concrete evidence.
Well, at least we would start there.
You know, everybody plays a debunk everything, but, you

(31:02):
know, there's nothing to go against other than this being an
oral story. You know, a traditional tale has
been passed down. I I love this overall.
I really think it's a cool thing.
I mean, I, you know, yes, you know, people can, I guess I was
told when I was a kid that if I ate too many carrots, my skin
would turn orange. I'd love carrots like I still

(31:23):
do, right. That might explain somebody in
our government these days, maybeI don't know a lot of carrots in
his diet. But with that, you know, I get,
I guess I can understand that, you know, having a tint or hue
perhaps. Maybe it's something to do with
lack of sunlight. You know, if they were, they
were for some place that is subterranean.
Or, or a combination of the lackof nutrition, you know, I mean

(31:46):
the lack of vitamin D, which youknow, you get from the sun, you
become lethargic. It's all those things, so.
There's a. Good possibility.
Well, this time of year, you know, this is this is a huge
part of it, you know, and seasonal affective disorder is a
thing that that's been well documented over the last 20
years. You know, this is the time of
year where the sun's at its lowest points and we get less of

(32:06):
it, But then we get less anyway,because we all have, you know,
we have to go to work and placesI redoors and, you know, we come
out and it's dark. We go in, it's dark.
I certainly understand all of that, you know, and, and the
cool thing is they seem like they were normal kids, like
normal people anyway, you know, and, and the, the foreign
language thing, you know, I, I think, you know, the, the

(32:28):
Flemish piece is a good example there.
My thought was, you know, a really wide river.
I thought perhaps maybe they were from the, you know, from
Europe, mainland Europe, perhaps.
And, you know, and maybe the water level is lower and they
could see, I don't know how widethe channel is, the English
Channel. I'm assuming it's.
Wider than I think it is. You know, somehow they could see
across it to know it's AI think it's a river at least, but how
would they cross it? You know, they're just trying to

(32:50):
figure out ways to make this make sense.
And it just, it really doesn't in right way, you know, and
maybe that's where the alien element comes in because that's
that's the catch. All right, We can if you don't
explain it. And it must be extraterrestrial,
because it certainly isn't terrestrial the way it's
explained. Well, there's that or, or a
portal. I mean, there, that's, you know,
because, you know, they heard this, this they heard this

(33:12):
strange noise to them, which sounded like the bells of a
cathedral, but apparently they didn't have that wasn't part of
their culture. Gotcha.
So. So what was it?
Yeah, it's amazing. It's a really cool story, so.
I I this is one I hadn't heard of before until I started

(33:32):
digging into it, so I thought itwas.
I agree. I thought it was pretty cool.
So well. What about, what about you guys
out there? What do you think?
You know, it's a it's a head scratcher for us, of course,
but, and I do want to go back tosome comments here too.
Burt and Heather were late because of L JS birthday.
So can we start to show over? No, Sir, you snooze or lose.

(33:56):
That's that's but but we will beon Spotify and.
Apple, Apple, all that cool stuff tomorrow.
You can still watch it on Facebook later.
And once we're done, it'll, it'll pop up again or, or
YouTube. But yeah, as soon as you lose.
And Bert mentioned here, you mentioned Templar connection in
there, which I thought was an interesting piece as well.

(34:18):
You know, with the Templars having their hands in so many
things, it's not surprising thatthey come into this because I
think at one point, you know, they pretty much controlled most
of Europe, you know, and they would at least been well aware
with their their network of stuff.
So perhaps there's something to it as well.
But I agree, I'm Templar stuff. I'm like, what's going on here?

(34:39):
And so, yeah. So one, one thing that's
interesting with this is it seems to be brought up
cyclically, like everything was recorded, but it wasn't until I
forget what maybe sometime in the 1600s, that when the

(35:01):
Chronicle, you know, the, the the one book by the guy from
Newburgh was translated to English, did it start to come
around again? And then it came around again in
another couple 100 years. In another couple 100 years, it
was brought up again. It was just like, it seems to

(35:21):
come up over and over and over like it's, it's refreshed, I
guess is a good way of putting it.
Sure. So I don't know, it just seems
interesting to me. And when, when every time it's
refreshed, people dig into it a little further.
I mean the the one guy was 2012.So recent in our sense.

(35:42):
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, that's that, you
know, here's here it is, right? We're we're, we have so much
information at our fingertips these days, you know, but this
stuff isn't that. This isn't books, this isn't
libraries. This is somewhere on a shelf
that's, you know, probably got alot of dust on it because of the
age, you know, and it shows thatthat people are still going to

(36:05):
these places and still digging through things, you know, and,
and what, and I'm just going to,you know, say this to be Captain
Obvious, But, you know, libraries are still our greatest
resource for information, regardless of what the Internet
provides because, you know, you,you don't have to.
And, and usually there's more than one source as much as the
Internet, but you, you know, go,go, go check out the library.

(36:26):
You'll find everything you're looking for.
You know, I, I love the Internet.
I use it a lot, you know, but I still rely on books.
I'd still trust a book. I still want to touch a book and
read it, turn the pages or something in that learning
experience that's exponentially different and in my opinion,
better. Than and I feel if you're
reading it from a book now againa book can be skewed.

(36:48):
I know, I know. But I feel like.
Get what I just said? I know the opposite of it,
right? I feel like it's more realistic
and more more firm. Like seven different people
could read an article and then put it on the Internet and have
their own skew on it. Sure.
So I just, I don't know, like you said, I just feel like
there's something about learningfrom a book and I'm horrible at

(37:11):
it 'cause I I used to love to read and I've just gotten to the
point where it's I have a hard time.
Adult ADHD is a definitely a thing.
Yeah, fair. So and time, you know, that's
the other thing, you know it, ittakes time and and we, you know,
audio books exist, right? So, yeah, having someone in our
idle time of driving and in waiting and, you know, places

(37:31):
where you just can't pull it outor if you and you have the
ability where, you know, to put on headphones where you are, you
know, for your employment, if you have that, you know, that's
that's a nicety, you know, and it counts as reading.
You know, we had an argument, argument, discussion, better
word about that the other day here.
You know, as I mentioned, you know, the, we're talking about
Hans Holzer and rating on average 3 1/2 books a year.

(37:54):
You know, like reading 3 1/2 books a year is, is an
achievement for many, you know. And then you know, the, the,
the, I think 5 books were read here already this year by
someone else other than me. I think I'm only read 2 so far,
maybe 3, you know, but I, I readbooks because of this, you know,
like research, you know, materials and stuff.
So you know which, I've said this so many times before, if we

(38:17):
weren't doing this, I wouldn't have that exposure and I really
appreciate that. Yeah, here's a blast from the
past, Jamie. Oh wow, yeah, we all did, right.
And then did someone come to your house to sell it to you?
Maybe. Yep, I mean we had it.
And how many different versions of encyclopedias were in the
library? Oh, my gosh, walls of them, you

(38:40):
know, And every year they, you know, this, this, this.
Every year you had to get a new set because there was new
information. Right, Right.
Right. Yeah.
You couldn't be behind the times.
Yeah, but now, you know, you cango to the Encyclopedia
Britannica website. Yeah.
So of course for the people who are lonely listening to this,

(39:01):
Bert said. My generation grew up on the
Encyclopedia Britannica, so and.And, and, well, we're all there.
And he continues to say his his mom had shelves of
encyclopedias. That that's a cool house to grow
up in right there. Yeah, the other one, Jamie, was
National Geographic. Yes, the magazine.

(39:24):
My dad had multiple shelves of National Geographic magazines,
so. Of course, yeah.
And and well, you know, in the other the the worldly
experiences you got from that, you know, we're so uniquely
different than anything you'd see otherwise, you know, because
there there wasn't a history channel, right?

(39:45):
There wasn't a nature channel oranything like that.
You know, you had you had three channels basically and you were
the remote control told to change it.
What? What was the There was a nature
show on Sunday nights. Well, there was, there's a few
things, right? Like PBS eventually came up and
then got like Nova and things like that.
And now in search of, yeah, you know, some things that explored

(40:08):
the world more. But you know, there was a time
when it was. It was pretty bare other than
what you would find at the library.
I I remember Sunday nights before Walt Disney World show,
was it? Was it Wonderful World World?
Disney, right? There, but the right before that
was like a mutual of Omaha something or world of anyway it
was it was. It was Call of the Wild or

(40:31):
something like. That Yeah, Yeah.
Anyway, I I digress. There were no green children on
that show. No green children, right?
Yeah, didn't. That was, that was they weren't
mainstream enough. No.
So it hadn't come around the cycle.
Yes, sure. We're off.
We're off that one. What that mean?
What you say? Yeah.
There it is. Yeah, Heather just brought in

(40:52):
Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom. Oh, sorry, we clicked.
We both clicked in. So yeah, that is exactly it.
Yeah, that was a great show it. Was am IA wonderful time to be
alive. So I guess I, I guess this is
probably a part to ask, you know, but where, where do you

(41:14):
feel here? Is this is this a paranormal
thing or what? Again, I, I would love to
believe that it was paranormal, like underworld, you know, you
know, living, you know, underground world, some sort of
portal brought them here. But again, the skeptic in me,
it's just like, I don't think so, but I don't know because

(41:37):
it's like, like I said, there were two stories by two people
whose job it was to document things.
There was too close to be, you know, it's just some.
So there's something here, but Idon't know what it is so.
I don't doubt, I don't doubt that there were kids that were

(41:58):
discovered that were tinted in some way.
You know, just I mean it it any,any person and who doesn't look
like you exactly is considered unusual, right?
Especially in this era of the war and this place of the world.
There's a lot of white people, right?
And pasty white ones at that, because of British so crooked

(42:18):
teeth, all those those bad stereotypes.
And that is exactly a stereotype.
You know, the the story probablyisn't.
It isn't ending where it started, like going back to
whisper down the lane or telephone game or however you
want to say it. And it probably evolved through

(42:38):
the years to something where they didn't look normal like
everyone else. And therefore it got
fantastical. And then another color, green,
you know, could have been blue, it could have been pink, could
have been orange. You know, it's it happened to be
green. So maybe maybe that and then
having kids come in that that spoke another language, you
know, would have been an occasion, right?

(42:59):
It would have been noted, it would have been optional.
So I, I don't disbelieve that ithappened, you know, and I, I
want to believe that either theycame from, like you said, some
subterranean special place worldthat you know, or they were
extraterrestrials, you know, that got lost along the way.
You know, I can see it now out in the out in the Moors

(43:21):
somewhere. You know, somebody, they landed
a ship and that, you know, the kids had to go to the bathroom.
So they ran off to the tree lineand parents thought they were on
the ship and then they, you know, then check and next thing
you know, they're gone. And the kids are like, hey,
right. You know that that sounds like
that sounds like a movie. You know, that's the next Disney
film right there. Yeah.

(43:43):
But that, you know, that kind ofthing.
I want to believe that too. Like that could happen.
I mean, I hate to see that they would abandoned, like these kids
would get left behind. But you know, the idea that
they. I want to believe that too.
But the reality, you know, the, the, the probability, maybe more
than the reality is that it, it's just a story that's been

(44:03):
expanded so many times in the course of history that it is,
you know, it's and it, and it's not necessarily what it was
then. As outlandish as some of Lunan's
ideas were with the, you know, the extraterrestrial, he did
have a good point that it was atsome point it had to be
transcribed from, translated from Latin to English.

(44:26):
And, you know, every time you translate, it's just like the,
the Bible. Every time the Bible is
translated, things change. They, they're, they change to
fit the time period that it's being translated in.
They, they change to fit what the like the translators
interpretations of the words. Because we, you know, we're
dealing with the language that is has evolved and like, I'm

(44:49):
sure the words in Latin today are just like the words in
English that they've, you know, like they're not the same like,
you know. There are things I don't have
words for that matter, you know,so a substitute had to be
provided or an alternate was created to, to fit something
close. And that's where, you know,
that's the idea of lost in translation.
You know, like it just it happens even even in known

(45:12):
languages today, you know, with just moving some words just
don't, don't convey into the newlanguage or vice versa.
I mean, loose and wanton could have meant a beautiful woman at
that point, you know, like because you know, that was one
of the things. That was different connotation
today, that's for sure, right? Exactly.
Right. So.

(45:33):
So anyway, so yeah. So you're thinking it's not
really paranormal either, Jamie.I want to believe and I I will
always say that I want to believe because I do, but I just
don't think I can on this one. Great story, though, really
cool, really cool. And you know, kudos to the team
and we'll pit for for, you know,keeping the keeping the dream
alive that it could be. You know, who knows, there might

(45:55):
be some some document that pullsout of somebody's attic someday,
you know, from ages ago that then has more information and
man, stuff happens all the time.You know, we're more
information. That's, that's how we figure
things out, you know, So hopefully there's more stuff
available someday that that either supports or refutes it
either way. But at this point, I'm, I'm

(46:17):
really, I'm squarely in the middle of a fence leaning,
leaning now. Yeah.
I mean, Jamie, we could always take a time traveling road trip.
It's true. I'm surprised no one's no one
said road trip yet. I'm a little disappointed.
Talk to you. So, yeah, I mean, you know, it
again, it we will never know 875years it hasn't been figured

(46:40):
out. I don't think it's going to be
figured out. And that's what makes it cool,
too. Like it's still, there's still a
debate. There's enough.
There's enough here to make it debatable.
Yeah. So.
Good choice of topics. Thank you.
So I'm glad you enjoyed it. So so Speaking of topics, should

(47:02):
we look at topics coming up? Before we go, Bert, Bert's
defense here is you miss where the story started.
So, OK, so we're in the UK, Sir.UK wolf pits so outside of
Suffolk, England in about 11:50 so yeah ADAD so.

(47:28):
Turn on your your time machine and then hop back over.
And next time you're on the other side of the pond, you can
give us a give us a scouting report.
So, oh, so they, they missed ourcall out to, you know, check out
and I'm drawing a blank on it now.
That's horrible. Ritz Theatre No historic-uk.com

(47:48):
because they have hotels that you can save.
That was that was my part of this conversation.
So I got I'm still excited aboutit.
So. Yeah.
So now there we go. There we go, all.
Right now. Now Bert's called for Rd. trips.
All right, now the episode is complete.
So, well, we could just challenge them the next time
they're in in Ireland to make a trip to Wolf Pit and do some.

(48:12):
Yeah, right. Yeah.
So. So now are we ready to move on,
Jamie? Let's do it.
All right. All right, so we've got some
stuff coming up. So next week I'm going to tackle
the the fun, if I can call it that, of Grimm, the true Grimm's
fairy tales. And then coming behind that,

(48:35):
Chad's going on the 25th, we're going to do Rendell Shim Forest
incident, which I know absolutely nothing about.
So that's pretty cool. March 4th, which is Fat Tuesday,
we're going to talk about New Orleans, the which is America's
most haunted city perhaps anyway.
And March 11th, as Chad said last week, he's going to jump

(48:55):
into Leap Castle. That makes me laugh every time.
And then behind that, on the 18th of March, mid March, we're
going to talk about Tommy Knockers.
So. OK.
And move along. So we talked about our home base
in at Booby's Brewery in Mount Joy, PA.

(49:16):
And, and for those interested inthis, it's BUBES, not the other
spelling. And certainly don't look that up
at work with the other spelling because you know, you might get
HR calling you in the office. But Boobies Brewery is in Mount
Roy, Pennsylvania, here in the US, and with it is a property on
this National Historical Register that we get the

(49:36):
privilege of investigating on a monthly basis with public
events. However, if you're not a fan of
doing public things and, you know, you have maybe your own
team that you want to bring in and have the place to yourself,
you can certainly schedule some private investigations as well.
And we'll get to that in a second.
Yeah. It's.
Coming up but but our public. Stuff is coming up in two weeks

(49:57):
on the 22nd of February and again in March 22nd.
It's always interesting to me how March dates equal out each
month to over. You can always tell April 10th
we're going to, we're going to Rd. ourselves.
We're heading out to West and West Virginia to the Trans
Allegheny Lunatic Asylum or Tala.
So we'll do some, we'll do an episode in advance to set up the

(50:19):
history and, and things that we know.
And then we'll do a post with the, the folks who go with us as
part of our team is going and part of our New Jersey team is
going and some friends along theway as well.
And coming out of that, we have another public investigation on
April 26th at the brewery. Tickets are available at
boobiesbrewery.com/entertainmentand that will transition you

(50:43):
over to what's called Saver Stub, which is a seller website
that'll get you the tickets thatyou need to get to our events.
Jamie, I, I don't know if you caught any of the social media
posts that that Melissa put out today, but we're adding a room
to the investigations this year.Oh I I've been busy today so I I
missed this do tell. I well, I the, the post said new

(51:06):
for 2025, we are adding an additional room to investigate.
One can't help to wonder what Aloise and Pauline talked about
in the privacy of their own bedroom.
The kids, the business, we're going to find out.
So I'm not sure what that is, but we will find out in a couple

(51:26):
weeks. We will.
We will have more information onthat next time.
OK, well, cool. So.
And Chad, you know as well as I do that mount joys more fun when
you stay over. It is, yeah.
So accommodations are available on site in the brewery property,
in the central hotel, which is the part we get to investigate,
there is a hotel level above. And then across the street there

(51:51):
is a property called the Malt Baron Mansion, which is an
Airbnb that has larger rooms perhaps from your multiple
guests and the kitchenettes and so forth.
So you can stay right either on property or right across the
street, walking distance either way, of course.
So pretty cool. And again, Mount Roy is more fun
when you sleep over, Right, Chad?

(52:11):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Yeah, I'm going to make that a slide next time, Jamie.
It should be at the bottom right.
Yeah, all right. And again, public investigation
options are available. We have some some special stuff
coming up though, and you can tell I didn't look at these

(52:32):
slides before we start talking about them because I'm used to a
certain order that Chad has jumbled on me so.
Yeah. All right, all right, I'm
flexible. I can work this.
So we have a pair of unity eventcoming up on May 17th.
So we are going to partner with Stacey and Gary from Land and
Legend Paranormal. So Stacey is a medium and and

(52:55):
Gary's a pretty cool dude. So we are going to partner with
them. They're going to investigate
with us and bring a different level of expertise to the
program for the night. Everybody's going to get a
chance to work with them as wellas with us as a team and it
should be pretty exciting. I'm looking forward to this
date. It was moved from April 26th
just for some scheduling conflicts.

(53:16):
Unfortunately it came up, but weare, we are definitely go on May
17th for this special event. Tickets are still available.
So now feel free to jump in to theboobiesbrewery.com/entertainmentpage
and then tickets are all be listed there.
All right? And then 16 times already you

(53:39):
can do private investigations, private investigations, I'm
sorry, at the brewery as well. So if you have your own team,
you'd like to come in and have the place to yourself, we can
certainly coordinate that. You know, with that, we ask you
to to shoot an e-mail to [e-mail].
That goes directly to Melissa Keller, who's our team founder.
She coordinates those events andprovides the dates and costs and

(54:02):
all that good stuff. And again, now she can share the
idea of how to stay on property too.
So it's pretty, pretty easy, pretty, pretty simple.
And with that, you know, you have the place to yourself.
There's no other teams there. There's no other staff there,
you know, so it's, it's pretty cool.
We have had the privilege many times of actually investigating

(54:23):
on our own with the brewery. So I can say it's a cool
experience. Hey, name is John.
Hey, John, good evening. And then how to find us.
You found us tonight either on our Facebook page or our YouTube
channel. But also you can check us out on
TikTok, Instagram, as well as shoot us an e-mail if you're

(54:47):
interested in giving us a, perhaps an episode topic or
discuss anything paranormal [e-mail].
Tomorrow we are going to have this episode up on Spotify,
Apple Podcast and Audible. Maybe another one or two.
Chad, I forget how many we have now, but there's a lot of them
ways to find us. And all you have to do is search
paranormal Lens and we'll pop upright away.

(55:09):
And if you want to see all of that stuff at once, we have a
link tree page at Let's go to link Tree, which is linktr dot
EE paranormal lens. And we will be right there for
you too. So you can see all of this good
stuff all in one place. And this is episode 91.
So if you're new to us, there's 90 backlogged episodes for you

(55:30):
to catch up on. So we definitely have something
for you to do this week and nextweek probably too.
That's something you want to pinch.
All right, Sir, that is all we have.
So, any parting thoughts? No, I don't think so.
OK. All right.

(55:50):
Well, I, I say this usually all the day, every episode.
And you know, again, we, we really appreciate everyone for
coming along for the ride with these episodes.
Whether you're here with us tonight, you're catching us on
the streaming services later. If there's something you would
like to see or hear us do, shootus an e-mail again, paranormal
[e-mail] gets to Chad and I, you know, we are

(56:12):
willing and able and certainly excited to do listener
submission episodes. We've done quite a few.
We'll do quite a few more. We'll do as many as it takes.
You know, we self produce so that schedule that we talked
about a minute ago can be moved and flexed and you know, we can
pull stuff up to the top. We see a little time to do some
homework on the topic and who knows, you might come on with us
if it's your story. So we're we're certainly very

(56:34):
flexible. Anyone while you're out there
on, you know, the streaming services, feel free to give us
some stars. We hope we've earned 5.
But you know, if not, whatever number you feel is good, we're
happy with it. We're just happy that we have
some interaction and if there's a chance to leave a review or a
comment, please do you know, we're certainly we'd love the
feedback. We really appreciate the the
experience of getting to touch base with people who are
listening and and you know, the interest that you have as well.

(56:57):
It's it's an exciting thing and drives us forward.
So you said we're. We're we're up to 21 countries
in our streams, right Jamie? Oh my goodness.
Wait, there's 21 countries in the world?
What? I'm just kidding.
I'm kidding. Yeah.
And, and thanks everybody aroundthe world, wherever you may be.
You know, we we certainly appreciate it, each and every

(57:18):
one of you. We can't do it without you.
Thank you. So, all right, well, Jamie, it
was fun doing this episode, but I'm looking forward to next week
and what you've got. So as always, it's it's great
going back and forth because we're getting exposed to a lot
of different things. Yeah.

(57:38):
And there's definitely some really cool stuff coming up that
we haven't even put up on the the schedule yet.
But yeah, we're it's it. I think we've said it before,
this is a never ending. You know, this podcast could go
on for years and years and yearsand we wouldn't hear all the
topics. It's.
A boundless realm of the paranormal.
So yeah, we'll keep them coming.So, but on that note, I think

(58:02):
it's time to roll the end credits and we'll be back here
next week at 9:00 on Tuesday night just like every week.
So thanks everybody and we will look forward to seeing you next
week. See you tonight.
Take care.