What if the greatest leadership blind spot isn’t about people at all, but about the space between them?
In this episode of Partnering Leadership, Mahan Tavakoli speaks with Jim Ferrell, renowned leadership thinker and author of You and We: The Relational Rethinking of Work, Life, and Leadership. Known for co-authoring the international bestseller Leadership and Self-Deception, Ferrell’s latest work shifts the lens from managing individuals to managing the relationships that determine whether strategies succeed or fail.
Ferrell explains why execution often falters not inside functions, but at the seams — the handoffs, dependencies, and connections that link people, teams, and departments. He challenges leaders to rethink the org chart: while boxes and reporting lines are visible, the real value is created or lost in the white space between them. CEOs and boards who fail to see and lead that space risk blind spots, stalled strategies, and underperformance.
In the conversation, Ferrell outlines a framework of “levels of connectivity” that helps leaders diagnose whether relationships are dividing, subtracting, siloed, multiplying, or compounding results. He shares why leaders at the top often get the worst data, how systems and incentives frequently reinforce silos, and what it takes to truly lead at the relational level.
Whether you lead a global enterprise, a nonprofit, or a government agency, Ferrell’s insights invite you to rethink what leadership demands today: not simply inspiring individuals, but intentionally managing the relational field that drives execution, culture, and long-term performance.
Actionable Takeaways
- Hear why execution fails most often at the seams, not inside the silos—and what this means for how leaders should focus their attention.
- Learn how to spot the blind spot on your org chart and why the white space between boxes matters more than the boxes themselves.
- Discover Jim Ferrell’s “levels of connectivity” and how each level determines whether relationships subtract value, add value, or compound it.
- Find out why CEOs at the top often receive the worst data—and what kind of leadership it takes to cultivate candor and real feedback.
- Explore how system design and incentives can quietly sabotage collaboration even among well-intentioned people.
- Understand how mapping connections across teams can reveal hidden risks and opportunities for acceleration.
- Learn practical moves senior leaders can make to strengthen critical relationships across teams, functions, and business units.
- Hear how leaders can build an organization where success is shared and compounded, rather than siloed and slowed.
Connect with Jim Ferrell
Connect with Mahan Tavakoli:
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.