June 7, 2023 • 32 mins
In this episode of Partners in Possibility I speak with Frans Johansson, a prominent DEI thought leader, author of The Medici Effect and The Click Moment, and founder of The Medici Group and Via Renaissance.
He has inspired several companies and teams through his live speaking engagements and has successfully scaled companies and startups through change management and integrating DEI initiatives and policies.
Learn more about Frans Johansson:
https://www.fransjohansson.com
See The Medici Group’s work in action:
https://www.themedicigroup.com
Via Renaissance:
https://www.viarenaissance.io
from plus company
He has inspired several companies and teams through his live speaking engagements and has successfully scaled companies and startups through change management and integrating DEI initiatives and policies.
Learn more about Frans Johansson:
https://www.fransjohansson.com
See The Medici Group’s work in action:
https://www.themedicigroup.com
Via Renaissance:
https://www.viarenaissance.io
from plus company
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
All new ideas are really only justcombinations of existing ideas, combining into concepts
and creating a new one. Ifthe ideas that you combine are diverse,
if they're very different, they're unexpected, well then you greatly enhance the probability
that the new ideas innovative. Inthis ever changing world. The secret to
(00:27):
create an unforgettable marketing campaign lies inour ability to cut through the noise,
connect with the right audience, andstay current. On this show, we
look behind the curtain to learn howthe most successful marketing campaigns were created and
hear from thought leaders in the industry. Hi, I'm Bret Marshand, CEO
of Class Company. We're a uniquepartnership of forward thinking creative agencies. By
(00:51):
harnessing the power of collaboration, wemake the choices that drive brands forward.
Is partners and Possibility. Today Ispeak with Franz Johansson, entrepreneur, author,
and the thought leader in the realmof diversity, equity and inclusion.
His best selling first book, TheMedici Effect, makes the case that innovation
(01:14):
happens at the intersection of diverse industries, cultures, and disciplines. Over the
last fifteen years, Franz has sharedhis methods and tools for diversity and innovation
with over five thousand teams worldwide throughhis speaking engagements and work with his company,
the Medici Group. He's put dEI on the CEO agenda. So
today we talk about the foundations ofcreativity and what it takes to get to
(01:40):
new and successful ideas. We discusshow reversing your assumptions can be the key
to sparking innovation. We look athow campaigns from Nike, McDonald's and the
NFL have met the moment we're inright now, and of course we'll talk
about what that moment is and whatit tells us about the future. Let's
(02:07):
get into this because I want totalk about this idea of the intersection and
intersectional ideas, especially for our audience, because a lot of them are marketers
or they're working in the agency business, and I think that you know how
you come up with innovative new ideasand your studies around this, I think
people would be super interested in hearingmore about it. So tell us tell
(02:27):
me a little bit about the intersectionand where it came from and how it
works. The first thing to knowabout the intersection of the and the book
that I wrote, The Medita Effect, around it was that I was really
looking at foundational principles around innovation,creativity and innovation. First principles the type
of stuff that would hold true acrosstime, across cultures. In whether you
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are in a startup, in alarge company and a big team a small
team doesn't matter. It turns outthat there are some of these first principles
that absolutely describe and help us understandingrelation. The first one is this,
all new ideas are really only justcombinations of existing ideas. So anything new
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that you can think of is reallyis by combining something that already exists with
some other concept. Through that wecreate something new. In my book,
I talk about all kinds of exampleslike this. The opening example is around
an architect that designs this building inHarare, the capital of Zimbabwe, which
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uses ninety percent less energy than anyother building around it, and the way
he did it was but was bydrawing from designed principles the termites had when
they build their mounds of the Africansavannah. So you combine it to concepts
and creating a new one. Thisrule has a as a caveat, though,
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which is that not all idea combinationsare created equal. And so if
the ideas that you're combining are veryclosely connected, if they're obvious, but
then the likelihood of the new ideabeing innovative isn't that great. What happens
if you combine a water procet ofa water hose, like you connect them
and it's just very difficult to makethis into a greatly innovative idea. Your
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mindment instantly connected, as I saidthose words that you can imagine it right.
But if the ideas that you combineare diverse, if they're very different,
if they're unexpected, well then yougreatly enhance the probability that the new
ideas innovative. And so this iswhere we get some a concept like termites
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and architecture, or if you lookat to improve how to send sandless into
space. The size of those sidedonts really matter, but you can improve
the design of them by looking athow you use the mathematics origami to design
Oregami figure as well. Today theycan sort of design satellites using this type
of mathematics to make them more andmore compact. The way you would fold
(05:06):
these satellites and solar panels on thesesatellites, two very different fields, you
combine them and you're creating something newthat is quite innovative. This tells them
something about the intersection, because whatthe intersection is. This a place for
different fields and cultures and disciplines meatand that means that the ideas that you
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recombine there tend to be very different, and that is why it enhances the
probability of success. So that's thefirst idea around the intersection that I think
is really powerful. But there's thesecond one as well, which is that
the more ideas that we can comeup with, the more ideas that we
can generate, the better the probabilitywill come up with a good one.
Einstein wrote over two hundred forty papersbecause I made over fifty thousand works of
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art and a lifetime right. ThomasEdison had over a thousand patents. And
you will see this notion over andover again. And the reason why we
see this is because actually ability topredict what works does not work is actually
quite low, and so people thatare looking to break new ground understand this
either directly or intuitively, and sothey keep on trying. They keep on
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either they try a lot, alot of concept with the same idea.
We call those pivots pivot pivot pivottry to figure out what works or doesn't,
or they try a lot of differentideas. This is kind of where
venture capitalists that's something that they tryto think of. Or you find the
same thing with hit makers, artistsand so on. And at the intersection.
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The number of idea combinations you haveaccess to, it is not additive.
You don't add the number of ideacombinations between the two fields that you're
connecting. You multiply them so youhave access to just an exponential increase.
Are really powerful ideas from different areas. So these are some of these fun
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national principles. How do you thinkabout innovation or how do you think about
creativity? How do you think aboutbreaking new ground? Ultimately, you cannot
really escape these these rules. Themore diverse the combination, the higher the
probability of success, and the moreidacy to develop, the high probability going
to hit upon one that actually works. You know the Internet right now,
I mean it used to be awild, wide open space where you could
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explore different ideas and I think whichwas so powerful about the Internet, And
now you know, we're using algorithmsto get people to only spend time with
the kinds of content they see,narrowing it in. And if we were
smart, we would actually do We'dgo back to stumble Upon and actually have
people be exposed to other ideas andother other concepts and other cultures, etc.
(07:46):
Would actually make us more productive,more innovative. As you say,
not all idea combinations produce the kindof innovation we're looking for. So how
do you best create the circumstances fordiversity and creativity? It may be additive
through energy and teamwork, and canhave an extraordinary result when put into action.
(08:09):
Making use of unorthodox thought processes toget to new ideas can help generate
a brand message that lasts a lifetime. You talk about another concept, but
I thought it was very interesting,which is reversing your assumptions, right,
So tell us a little bit aboutreversing your assumptions, because you know,
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it is something I've seen used inour business before. You know, sometimes
strategist will take it to creatives andsay, you know, well let's let's
let's turn this on its head andsee if we can come up with something.
But but but I you know,I think your approach to this is
super interesting, and I do thinkit's a it's a you know, it's
a skill that people could use moreoften. And the way it works is
this, whenever you approach any givenproblem or opportunity, there's all kinds of
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assumptions that you have built in asto what you need to do to pursue
those and you may not even reflectupon it, right, and so you
don't really examine what a solution couldlook like outside of that assumption. So,
for instance, let's say that youtry to come up with a new
restaurant. One of assumptions that youmight make about that is that the restaurant
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should serve food, because obviously,what else does the restaurant do It serves
food, So you don't even questionthat assumption. Reversing of assumptions means that
you list out some of those assumptionsand then you reverse those and see how
you can make the idea happen.Anyway, what would a restaurant look like
if you can't serve food? Right, and all of a sudden, now
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a new whole host or new ideasmight come up. Maybe the food is
really done in a way of drinksand so there's these sort of extra nutritious
sort of whatever it is. Ithe point is that you're not coming up
with ideas they wouldn't have otherwise.And it's an extremely effective way to force
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yourself into the intersection. This isdefinitely something can be trained, and you
might start with yourself before you startdoing this in meetings, But ask yourself,
well, wait a minute, whatif I just assumed that this was
not here, this limitation did notexist. I just simply this assumption that
I'm making about how we're going tosolve this problem, I'm just going to
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reverse it. We have we haveone, we have one big customer that
we're trying to solve for. Um, well, I'm going to reverse our
assumption. We don't we have tenNow all of a sudden, what ideas
do you come up with in thatwith that setup? And are there some
of those pieces that you can bringback to your situation. It's very very
(10:41):
powerful and uh yeah, I recommendit highly. Tell me a little about
some of the companies that you admirethat you've seen use this idea of the
intersection in order to drive innovation.Yeah, So I think that the place
where this happens most broadly, it'swhen we start thinking about diversity in terms
(11:03):
of in terms of the people,so age, gender, ethnicity, sexual
orientation, and so on, andand basically that the who of the people,
and then the what they are doing, so the function, the industry,
the education. If you just ifyou just focus on those two,
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you have a very fertile ground toexplore intersections. And one company that we
worked with since two thousand and eightis Disney often held up as a great
innovative company. Obviously great innovative company, they've been on the forefront of what
it means to understand that the peoplein sort of their target group are more
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diverse and look from more inclusive contentthan ever before. When it comes to
really any type of product. Almostthe world isn't where the average is,
and we can look at the averagesentiments around the world and feelings around the
world and say, well, thisis where the world is at. Well,
that's incorrect. So Disney had asense of this early. We were
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definitely part of that journey with them. It's been just amazing to see that
translate into that. We work overten divisions or units within Disney, and
you can sort of see these ideashitting ultimately the marketplace. On the other
hand, they also see it acrossfunctions and across industries. They have a
unit of Disney called of Engineering.It's there R and D shop effectively.
(12:33):
It's just amazing that people artists,designers, sound engineers, computer graphics,
like on and on and on fromlots of different disciplines. And yeah,
we worked them based only since twothousand and eight, this idea of bringing
these bringing these disciplines together, bringingthese different industries together. Wanted to create
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new compelling experiences. They literally thebest in the world at it. But
it's not an accident. It's notan accident. They understood, they've always
understood the power of taking approaches andmethodologies and technologies and recombining building on it
in the service experience. So that'sa company in my mind, that has
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really figured out what it means tolive at the intersection. Doesn't mean that
they're perfectly ever regarded that can improve, but you know, they've been around
for a hundred years so and doneyou know, quite well throughout that journey.
So I've been working with you forfourteen of those years. Yeah,
that's right, We're going to takea quick break. When we return,
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we'll discuss how two major brands,Nike and McDonald's, have incorporated diversity and
inclusion into their brand messaging to drivegrowth. We'll discuss why these campaigns set
the standard for why inclusion is notjust the right thing to do, but
also the smart thing to do.Welcome back to Partners and Possibility. I'm
(14:20):
Brett Marshaun, Franz Johansson, founderof the Medici Group, and I were
just discussing how the combination of diverseideas, backgrounds, and perspectives drives innovation.
We were also talking about how itcan lead to future profitable and equitable
brands through inclusion. These collaborations andads drove each respective brand forward while maintaining
(14:41):
authenticity. You also, I knowyou did an interview with Jason Maiden from
Nike that you know who's and I'ma huge Nike fan. It's one of
our clients. But tell me alittle bit about Nike and what makes them
so innovative. We after the bookcame out, they talked about these ideas
the one of the They were oneof the first companies that reached out and
(15:05):
said like, can you help startstart thinking around this UM and uh and
it was. It was very powerfulbecause to them the idea was this um.
They were really they were really honingin on diversity and inclusion. He
said, listen, here's what wewant at Nike. We want this concept
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to be a driver of brand,of innovation, of products, of marketing,
of positioning, like this is whatshould drive this should drive that.
These are separate processes. It's notsomething that we're doing in isolation. These
are really connected. Jason. Youmentioned Jason Maide and he he uh Ran.
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He was the head designing for theair Jordans for for part some time.
He's gone on to do a wholebunch of other amazing things. Um
and we actually had it. Webrought him in for a for a summit
that we had created a number ofyears ago, and he was talking about,
you know, the inspiration of ofdesigning that jordanstance was and deciding it
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sorry designing a shoe around their jeerthe baseball player, and the visioning in
his mind right was Batman. He'scombined the version of Batman, of Baseball,
of dirt, Zeeter Barring from alot of different cultural influences, UH
in a way that I think wouldhave been difficult if you weren't open to
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where you can draw your source ofinspiration. UM. He's gone on since
done to have a huge impact onblack communities in the in the in the
Bay Area, UM and and ensuringthat that organizations can tap into these type
of diverse perspectives in order to upthe game. But this has been part
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of I think it's been part ofmy Nike's start about their opportunity sets for
a long time. You know,it is probably a good time to pivot
to talk a little bit about brands. Just because we talked about Nike and
the NFL, I should did theirown ad during the Super Bowl this year,
which was super interesting. I meanthey picked a woman who happened to
be Mexican who played flag football,not you know, regular football, and
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talked about women, you know,pushing the sport forward. And it was
a really interesting to add. Whatdid you think of that I saw the
ad? What was my reaction whenI when I when I saw that?
What it tells us about the momentwhen right now and how brands should be
thinking about it? Why? Whythis ad? What was it about this
that that that that that makes usreally irrelevant. And I come back to
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this idea that demographically, if you'relooking at where we are heading demographically,
companies today are gonna any company,any organization, is going to have to
step up the game around inclusion.So that's my first point. The second
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piece is how do I communicate toyou that I that I do value inclusion?
Like, how do I do thatin a way? Um that matters
well. In the past, Iwould say that companies can kind of get
away with bare minimum, you know, like, yeah, we just gotta
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show something here and we're good.But that's not good enough today. Today
it has to be placed with areal stake behind it. You know,
this this gotta be so so.So that's where I think that I represents.
It's not that, oh, wewe gave a donation to a women's
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group that did this, and we'llwe'll put that up in a we'll make
a tweet about it. The pointhere is that this is this is how
the world is evolving right now andI and I want to I want to
explain just a little bit why youknow right now today, Um, there
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is a lot of confusion going onbetween are we in a resuption or not?
What about unemployment rates, employment rates, inflation, all these things are
not behaving the way that's opposed to. What does this really indicate? And
in my mind, it really indicatessomething that is not talked about much and
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it has direct implication on inclusion.What it indicates is this right now,
the next ten years or so,and we know this, you can predict
this, the number of people thatare in in the at working age are
going to be dropping in the UnitedStates. This is struggle over the world,
(20:02):
by the way, so I'm notwe can make the global argument out
of this. And on top ofthat, you're going to see more and
more need demand for labor because morecompanies are reasshoring. They want to shorten
as supplying lines, so they're bringingmanufactor other things back to the United States.
You see companies outside the United Statesopening up officers and plants in the
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United States because they don't have enoughworkers. Japan has business for a long
time. So what does all ofthis tell us. It tells us that
the demand for talent and labor isgoing to be It's gonna be high,
it's not going to go away.And that also means that this talent can
place demands on what top of environmentthey want to be in and the environment
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they want to be in, it'sgoing to be increasingly inclusive and open for
diversity. That's how all these things, these things hang together like a network
of of constant effects. And sothat's what we have to be thinking about.
That the bar for people today thatare in Gen Z millennials as to
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what they are want from the companiesthey work at or the ones from the
companies that they buy stuff from orwatch stuff is that it's going to be
more diverse and inclusive because they aremore diverse and inclusive. You know,
the Hispanic population is growing the fastestI think in the US, and it's
younger, as you say, Sothat's that's also why it was brilliant from
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that perspective, you know, hittingit specific segment. I think that is
true. But the larger idea isthis idea that NFL is open for diversity.
It's introducing something the discussion used tobe around white and black. This
is kind of opening that apperture nowa little bit a little bit broader.
Used to be about men, menand women, and you're seeing this aperture
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widening and you're going to see moreand more of this happening. I think
that's going all troop for virtually everysingle and at the outer if you draw
the timeline out far enough. Ithink that's actually one of the most interesting
things about that campaign, because itwas you know, it ran at halftime,
as you know, and given thatgame was about the first time two
black quarterbacks, we're going to playagainst each other, and given the backdrop
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of everything else that was going on, the fact that they actually pivoted and
didn't talk about you know too,you know, black and white, and
actually talked about female and Hispanic andand and again did it in a very
interesting way. Given she was thehero of that ad, I thought was
you know, took a lot ofguts. You know, I'm sure that
wasn't the obvious way to go giveneverything else that was going on in the
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world. So I hope somebody inclusiveor with the different point of view must
have been in the room when theycame up with you know that up,
Yeah, I believe, So Idon't I don't think. I don't think
this was obvious ad for the NFLto run. I agree for you there,
So what about the future, whatare these campaigns? Tell us about
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the moment that we're in right now. How can we harness the power of
diversity to drive innovation within our ownmarketing initiatives. Another campaign and we had
a little bit to do with this, but I'm interested in your point of
view, which is McDonald So Ithink you know McDonald's has had this program
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now around meals is started with TravisScott. Actually this has been done by
the advertise has been done by Widenand Kennedy by the way, which is
a great, you know, independentfirm and Sharp's the best work around the
world. Speaking of Nike, theyalso we work with them on helping to
pick, you know, the peoplethat are actually going to create these meals.
So started with Travis Scott and itwas BTS. It was Mariah Carey
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for Christmas, which was a hugehit. So the latest meal, which
was done for Valentine's Day was launchedduring the Super Bowl, was Cardi bing
offset Um and short of real diversityof couples in the in the advertising as
you saw, so interested in inin what's your take on that it plays
with something that I that I thinkabout all the time. It is it
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is about who who is? Whoare we today? And McDonald's has always
been about America. Like everybody inAmerica, everybody can go to McDonald's.
And so I think this is whatthat's the message that this is bringing across.
And when you when when you bringit to couples, you add on
a whole new dimension, which Ithought was interesting. Right here previously be
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talking about race or age or countryor or something like that, but here
you're also talking about couples in termsof um, are you are you into
racial? Are you? Are youm gay, lesbian? Are you so?
Like you can just this just itenables you to further broadening the discussion
(25:06):
around who is represented in uh inin in the United States today. And
so that to me was the wasthe again was the takeaway. But it's
but it's actually it's a sign.There's this ideal, there's this notion that
this is backlash. You know,it's two woke. But ask yourself for
(25:33):
what happened if when did that?You do campaign where there's no diversity in
it? Right, Like, justif you visualize it, what would happen?
Like Like, it's not about whatone what was the desire or what
it's about. It's it's simply aboutwhere the world is heading. These are
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forces that no one person, noone country can stop. These are massive
forces that have been in the makingfor decades. Well, I think one
of the most interesting things about thecampaign in general, I think about these
meals in general, whether it beyou know, Mariah Carey or BTS.
(26:17):
I mean it's a Korean boy band, right. So you know what McDonald's
has done is bring these celebrities togetheraround their fame, you know, their
favorite meals, and then in turnserves that to people obviously, and even
those meals in general, by theway, are pretty diverse. You know,
Travis Scott did fries with barbecue,sauce, etc. Yeah. Yeah,
And it doesn't feel forced to me, right because I mean nobody said,
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oh, we're doing a meal.And by the way, it's a
Korean boy man, I mean itwas BTS, and so you've got TSS
hit it big, right, Andnot only that, right, that fact
it's also in the psychis in otherwords, there's a particular way that these
things unfold. I believe all.I believe that is very true. There
is a moment where Korean culture isfinding them a broader appeal and and that
(27:07):
but and eventually it will just besort of incorporated and be part of what
is happening in the in the world. There's going to be something else.
There's going to be another piece.You know, a couple of years ago,
Spotify help really drive a massive explosionof Latin American music, and you
would see a lot of um adsand campaigns that will sort of playoff for
(27:33):
that. So this like if youjust take a moment and reflect upon how
many how many cultures are there inthe world, how many countries, Right,
this is going to keep on goingfor a while. We're going to
be We're going to basically go intoit's gonna be something else, and it's
usually driven by some unexpected circumstance.Right, BTS has made it big,
(27:56):
you got squigams. You combine allthat and as the Korean moments and you're
seeing an explosion of TV shows andcontent and other things from from South Korea.
As I said, over time,that's going to switch into something else.
Being inclusive and being diverse, notjust being the right thing to do,
but actually being the smart thing todo in order to innovate, in
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order to big better ideas to theworld. You started this whole discussion around
termites and architecture and how you knowit can use a lot less energy.
I mean, if we have oneproblem in the world right now, it's
climate change, and if we don'tbring that kind of diverse thinking to the
table, we probably will never solvethat. You know, what's probably the
world's greatest threat right now. That'sright to me, that has always been
(28:45):
the case, you know, whenI'm going back to my parents and going
after I grew up, of course, of course the idea that no matter
what your background is, the thereneeds to be equity, there needs to
be that, there needs to beinclusion, all of these things. These
are things to my mom talked alot about. Maybe didn't use those words
(29:08):
because they've been added later, butthat's what she was. But she was
talking about the opportunity whenever she feltthat I m in school. It happened.
Happened a couple of times. Iwas just not given the opportunities because
the teachers would assume that I justcould wouldn't get it. I mean,
she would come in fighting. Imean she'd be she'd be Rocky one,
(29:30):
two, three, four, andfive, and the sequels beyond that.
But but she would really she wouldreally she would really fight for my opportunity
to get the best um teaching,get the best materials and so on um.
But but what I remember in termsof the larger idea wasn't just that.
(29:56):
It was what I saw in theinteractions between my parents, which I
was very fortunate they were its twopeople that really built upon all that they
brought together to us as a family. And so that was really the stinking
in my mind. It was itwas it was multiple multiplicative. It's not
(30:18):
where I use often, but herewe go. And so, yeah,
we look to solve climate change,how are we going to do it.
It's not going to happen by justlooking at it from one perspective. It's
not gonna be just one industry,it's not going to be one scientific discipline.
It's not going to be one country. It's going to be all those
things, and it's going to beglobal. So what do those teams look
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like? What are those problems looklike? What are those solutions? Who
thinks of them, who drives them, who makes them happen? Diverse teams?
List of friends. Were grateful andlucky that your parents were who they
were because they brought you to theworld and you brought this stinking around.
I'm a huge fan and we aretrying to use this kind of thinking in
(31:03):
our company every single day. Sothank you for spending this time with us,
thank you for your ideas and yourinspiration, and I look forward to
many other conversations in the future.Thank you, Brett. I really love
this conversation, so looking forward tothe same. That was my conversation with
(31:23):
friends Johansson, DNI thought leader andfounder of the Medici Group. I hope
you gained valuable insights as to whereyour next brainstorming session can go, whether
across teams by reversing your assumptions orsolidifying your team's conclusion initiatives. Next week
we'll speak with Door Skiller of IntuitionRobotics and Chinley, a fuse project.
(31:48):
We'll be discussing their partnership to bringellie Q to market. So what is
elleq. Well, it's small enoughto sit on your coffee table, but
powerful enough to be the ultimate companion. Elle Q is an emotionally intelligent AI
fueled personal assistant design for a veryniche and very special audience, the elderly.
This is a fascinating discussion about smartdesign, a smart marketing for a
(32:12):
completely new brand and new technology.But bringing ALQ to life and into homes
wasn't easy. Fuse project and Intuitionrobotics faced challenges and iques development, design,
and marketing. You'll learn more aboutthose next week. We'll see you then,
All new ideas are really only justcombinations of existing ideas, combining into concepts
and creating a new one. Ifthe ideas that you combine are diverse,
if they're very different, they're unexpected, well then you greatly enhance the probability
that the new ideas innovative. Inthis ever changing world. The secret to
(00:27):
create an unforgettable marketing campaign lies inour ability to cut through the noise,
connect with the right audience, andstay current. On this show, we
look behind the curtain to learn howthe most successful marketing campaigns were created and
hear from thought leaders in the industry. Hi, I'm Bret Marshand, CEO
of Class Company. We're a uniquepartnership of forward thinking creative agencies. By
(00:51):
harnessing the power of collaboration, wemake the choices that drive brands forward.
Is partners and Possibility. Today Ispeak with Franz Johansson, entrepreneur, author,
and the thought leader in the realmof diversity, equity and inclusion.
His best selling first book, TheMedici Effect, makes the case that innovation
(01:14):
happens at the intersection of diverse industries, cultures, and disciplines. Over the
last fifteen years, Franz has sharedhis methods and tools for diversity and innovation
with over five thousand teams worldwide throughhis speaking engagements and work with his company,
the Medici Group. He's put dEI on the CEO agenda. So
today we talk about the foundations ofcreativity and what it takes to get to
(01:40):
new and successful ideas. We discusshow reversing your assumptions can be the key
to sparking innovation. We look athow campaigns from Nike, McDonald's and the
NFL have met the moment we're inright now, and of course we'll talk
about what that moment is and whatit tells us about the future. Let's
(02:07):
get into this because I want totalk about this idea of the intersection and
intersectional ideas, especially for our audience, because a lot of them are marketers
or they're working in the agency business, and I think that you know how
you come up with innovative new ideasand your studies around this, I think
people would be super interested in hearingmore about it. So tell us tell
(02:27):
me a little bit about the intersectionand where it came from and how it
works. The first thing to knowabout the intersection of the and the book
that I wrote, The Medita Effect, around it was that I was really
looking at foundational principles around innovation,creativity and innovation. First principles the type
of stuff that would hold true acrosstime, across cultures. In whether you
(02:53):
are in a startup, in alarge company and a big team a small
team doesn't matter. It turns outthat there are some of these first principles
that absolutely describe and help us understandingrelation. The first one is this,
all new ideas are really only justcombinations of existing ideas. So anything new
(03:15):
that you can think of is reallyis by combining something that already exists with
some other concept. Through that wecreate something new. In my book,
I talk about all kinds of exampleslike this. The opening example is around
an architect that designs this building inHarare, the capital of Zimbabwe, which
(03:38):
uses ninety percent less energy than anyother building around it, and the way
he did it was but was bydrawing from designed principles the termites had when
they build their mounds of the Africansavannah. So you combine it to concepts
and creating a new one. Thisrule has a as a caveat, though,
(03:59):
which is that not all idea combinationsare created equal. And so if
the ideas that you're combining are veryclosely connected, if they're obvious, but
then the likelihood of the new ideabeing innovative isn't that great. What happens
if you combine a water procet ofa water hose, like you connect them
and it's just very difficult to makethis into a greatly innovative idea. Your
(04:21):
mindment instantly connected, as I saidthose words that you can imagine it right.
But if the ideas that you combineare diverse, if they're very different,
if they're unexpected, well then yougreatly enhance the probability that the new
ideas innovative. And so this iswhere we get some a concept like termites
(04:43):
and architecture, or if you lookat to improve how to send sandless into
space. The size of those sidedonts really matter, but you can improve
the design of them by looking athow you use the mathematics origami to design
Oregami figure as well. Today theycan sort of design satellites using this type
of mathematics to make them more andmore compact. The way you would fold
(05:06):
these satellites and solar panels on thesesatellites, two very different fields, you
combine them and you're creating something newthat is quite innovative. This tells them
something about the intersection, because whatthe intersection is. This a place for
different fields and cultures and disciplines meatand that means that the ideas that you
(05:27):
recombine there tend to be very different, and that is why it enhances the
probability of success. So that's thefirst idea around the intersection that I think
is really powerful. But there's thesecond one as well, which is that
the more ideas that we can comeup with, the more ideas that we
can generate, the better the probabilitywill come up with a good one.
Einstein wrote over two hundred forty papersbecause I made over fifty thousand works of
(05:54):
art and a lifetime right. ThomasEdison had over a thousand patents. And
you will see this notion over andover again. And the reason why we
see this is because actually ability topredict what works does not work is actually
quite low, and so people thatare looking to break new ground understand this
either directly or intuitively, and sothey keep on trying. They keep on
(06:16):
either they try a lot, alot of concept with the same idea.
We call those pivots pivot pivot pivottry to figure out what works or doesn't,
or they try a lot of differentideas. This is kind of where
venture capitalists that's something that they tryto think of. Or you find the
same thing with hit makers, artistsand so on. And at the intersection.
(06:38):
The number of idea combinations you haveaccess to, it is not additive.
You don't add the number of ideacombinations between the two fields that you're
connecting. You multiply them so youhave access to just an exponential increase.
Are really powerful ideas from different areas. So these are some of these fun
(07:00):
national principles. How do you thinkabout innovation or how do you think about
creativity? How do you think aboutbreaking new ground? Ultimately, you cannot
really escape these these rules. Themore diverse the combination, the higher the
probability of success, and the moreidacy to develop, the high probability going
to hit upon one that actually works. You know the Internet right now,
I mean it used to be awild, wide open space where you could
(07:24):
explore different ideas and I think whichwas so powerful about the Internet, And
now you know, we're using algorithmsto get people to only spend time with
the kinds of content they see,narrowing it in. And if we were
smart, we would actually do We'dgo back to stumble Upon and actually have
people be exposed to other ideas andother other concepts and other cultures, etc.
(07:46):
Would actually make us more productive,more innovative. As you say,
not all idea combinations produce the kindof innovation we're looking for. So how
do you best create the circumstances fordiversity and creativity? It may be additive
through energy and teamwork, and canhave an extraordinary result when put into action.
(08:09):
Making use of unorthodox thought processes toget to new ideas can help generate
a brand message that lasts a lifetime. You talk about another concept, but
I thought it was very interesting,which is reversing your assumptions, right,
So tell us a little bit aboutreversing your assumptions, because you know,
(08:30):
it is something I've seen used inour business before. You know, sometimes
strategist will take it to creatives andsay, you know, well let's let's
let's turn this on its head andsee if we can come up with something.
But but but I you know,I think your approach to this is
super interesting, and I do thinkit's a it's a you know, it's
a skill that people could use moreoften. And the way it works is
this, whenever you approach any givenproblem or opportunity, there's all kinds of
(08:54):
assumptions that you have built in asto what you need to do to pursue
those and you may not even reflectupon it, right, and so you
don't really examine what a solution couldlook like outside of that assumption. So,
for instance, let's say that youtry to come up with a new
restaurant. One of assumptions that youmight make about that is that the restaurant
(09:15):
should serve food, because obviously,what else does the restaurant do It serves
food, So you don't even questionthat assumption. Reversing of assumptions means that
you list out some of those assumptionsand then you reverse those and see how
you can make the idea happen.Anyway, what would a restaurant look like
if you can't serve food? Right, and all of a sudden, now
(09:35):
a new whole host or new ideasmight come up. Maybe the food is
really done in a way of drinksand so there's these sort of extra nutritious
sort of whatever it is. Ithe point is that you're not coming up
with ideas they wouldn't have otherwise.And it's an extremely effective way to force
(09:56):
yourself into the intersection. This isdefinitely something can be trained, and you
might start with yourself before you startdoing this in meetings, But ask yourself,
well, wait a minute, whatif I just assumed that this was
not here, this limitation did notexist. I just simply this assumption that
I'm making about how we're going tosolve this problem, I'm just going to
(10:20):
reverse it. We have we haveone, we have one big customer that
we're trying to solve for. Um, well, I'm going to reverse our
assumption. We don't we have tenNow all of a sudden, what ideas
do you come up with in thatwith that setup? And are there some
of those pieces that you can bringback to your situation. It's very very
(10:41):
powerful and uh yeah, I recommendit highly. Tell me a little about
some of the companies that you admirethat you've seen use this idea of the
intersection in order to drive innovation.Yeah, So I think that the place
where this happens most broadly, it'swhen we start thinking about diversity in terms
(11:03):
of in terms of the people,so age, gender, ethnicity, sexual
orientation, and so on, andand basically that the who of the people,
and then the what they are doing, so the function, the industry,
the education. If you just ifyou just focus on those two,
(11:24):
you have a very fertile ground toexplore intersections. And one company that we
worked with since two thousand and eightis Disney often held up as a great
innovative company. Obviously great innovative company, they've been on the forefront of what
it means to understand that the peoplein sort of their target group are more
(11:50):
diverse and look from more inclusive contentthan ever before. When it comes to
really any type of product. Almostthe world isn't where the average is,
and we can look at the averagesentiments around the world and feelings around the
world and say, well, thisis where the world is at. Well,
that's incorrect. So Disney had asense of this early. We were
(12:11):
definitely part of that journey with them. It's been just amazing to see that
translate into that. We work overten divisions or units within Disney, and
you can sort of see these ideashitting ultimately the marketplace. On the other
hand, they also see it acrossfunctions and across industries. They have a
unit of Disney called of Engineering.It's there R and D shop effectively.
(12:33):
It's just amazing that people artists,designers, sound engineers, computer graphics,
like on and on and on fromlots of different disciplines. And yeah,
we worked them based only since twothousand and eight, this idea of bringing
these bringing these disciplines together, bringingthese different industries together. Wanted to create
(13:01):
new compelling experiences. They literally thebest in the world at it. But
it's not an accident. It's notan accident. They understood, they've always
understood the power of taking approaches andmethodologies and technologies and recombining building on it
in the service experience. So that'sa company in my mind, that has
(13:24):
really figured out what it means tolive at the intersection. Doesn't mean that
they're perfectly ever regarded that can improve, but you know, they've been around
for a hundred years so and doneyou know, quite well throughout that journey.
So I've been working with you forfourteen of those years. Yeah,
that's right, We're going to takea quick break. When we return,
(13:48):
we'll discuss how two major brands,Nike and McDonald's, have incorporated diversity and
inclusion into their brand messaging to drivegrowth. We'll discuss why these campaigns set
the standard for why inclusion is notjust the right thing to do, but
also the smart thing to do.Welcome back to Partners and Possibility. I'm
(14:20):
Brett Marshaun, Franz Johansson, founderof the Medici Group, and I were
just discussing how the combination of diverseideas, backgrounds, and perspectives drives innovation.
We were also talking about how itcan lead to future profitable and equitable
brands through inclusion. These collaborations andads drove each respective brand forward while maintaining
(14:41):
authenticity. You also, I knowyou did an interview with Jason Maiden from
Nike that you know who's and I'ma huge Nike fan. It's one of
our clients. But tell me alittle bit about Nike and what makes them
so innovative. We after the bookcame out, they talked about these ideas
the one of the They were oneof the first companies that reached out and
(15:05):
said like, can you help startstart thinking around this UM and uh and
it was. It was very powerfulbecause to them the idea was this um.
They were really they were really honingin on diversity and inclusion. He
said, listen, here's what wewant at Nike. We want this concept
(15:26):
to be a driver of brand,of innovation, of products, of marketing,
of positioning, like this is whatshould drive this should drive that.
These are separate processes. It's notsomething that we're doing in isolation. These
are really connected. Jason. Youmentioned Jason Maide and he he uh Ran.
(15:50):
He was the head designing for theair Jordans for for part some time.
He's gone on to do a wholebunch of other amazing things. Um
and we actually had it. Webrought him in for a for a summit
that we had created a number ofyears ago, and he was talking about,
you know, the inspiration of ofdesigning that jordanstance was and deciding it
(16:15):
sorry designing a shoe around their jeerthe baseball player, and the visioning in
his mind right was Batman. He'scombined the version of Batman, of Baseball,
of dirt, Zeeter Barring from alot of different cultural influences, UH
in a way that I think wouldhave been difficult if you weren't open to
(16:38):
where you can draw your source ofinspiration. UM. He's gone on since
done to have a huge impact onblack communities in the in the in the
Bay Area, UM and and ensuringthat that organizations can tap into these type
of diverse perspectives in order to upthe game. But this has been part
(17:02):
of I think it's been part ofmy Nike's start about their opportunity sets for
a long time. You know,it is probably a good time to pivot
to talk a little bit about brands. Just because we talked about Nike and
the NFL, I should did theirown ad during the Super Bowl this year,
which was super interesting. I meanthey picked a woman who happened to
be Mexican who played flag football,not you know, regular football, and
(17:25):
talked about women, you know,pushing the sport forward. And it was
a really interesting to add. Whatdid you think of that I saw the
ad? What was my reaction whenI when I when I saw that?
What it tells us about the momentwhen right now and how brands should be
thinking about it? Why? Whythis ad? What was it about this
that that that that that makes usreally irrelevant. And I come back to
(17:51):
this idea that demographically, if you'relooking at where we are heading demographically,
companies today are gonna any company,any organization, is going to have to
step up the game around inclusion.So that's my first point. The second
(18:14):
piece is how do I communicate toyou that I that I do value inclusion?
Like, how do I do thatin a way? Um that matters
well. In the past, Iwould say that companies can kind of get
away with bare minimum, you know, like, yeah, we just gotta
(18:34):
show something here and we're good.But that's not good enough today. Today
it has to be placed with areal stake behind it. You know,
this this gotta be so so.So that's where I think that I represents.
It's not that, oh, wewe gave a donation to a women's
(18:57):
group that did this, and we'llwe'll put that up in a we'll make
a tweet about it. The pointhere is that this is this is how
the world is evolving right now andI and I want to I want to
explain just a little bit why youknow right now today, Um, there
(19:19):
is a lot of confusion going onbetween are we in a resuption or not?
What about unemployment rates, employment rates, inflation, all these things are
not behaving the way that's opposed to. What does this really indicate? And
in my mind, it really indicatessomething that is not talked about much and
(19:40):
it has direct implication on inclusion.What it indicates is this right now,
the next ten years or so,and we know this, you can predict
this, the number of people thatare in in the at working age are
going to be dropping in the UnitedStates. This is struggle over the world,
(20:02):
by the way, so I'm notwe can make the global argument out
of this. And on top ofthat, you're going to see more and
more need demand for labor because morecompanies are reasshoring. They want to shorten
as supplying lines, so they're bringingmanufactor other things back to the United States.
You see companies outside the United Statesopening up officers and plants in the
(20:25):
United States because they don't have enoughworkers. Japan has business for a long
time. So what does all ofthis tell us. It tells us that
the demand for talent and labor isgoing to be It's gonna be high,
it's not going to go away.And that also means that this talent can
place demands on what top of environmentthey want to be in and the environment
(20:49):
they want to be in, it'sgoing to be increasingly inclusive and open for
diversity. That's how all these things, these things hang together like a network
of of constant effects. And sothat's what we have to be thinking about.
That the bar for people today thatare in Gen Z millennials as to
(21:15):
what they are want from the companiesthey work at or the ones from the
companies that they buy stuff from orwatch stuff is that it's going to be
more diverse and inclusive because they aremore diverse and inclusive. You know,
the Hispanic population is growing the fastestI think in the US, and it's
younger, as you say, Sothat's that's also why it was brilliant from
(21:37):
that perspective, you know, hittingit specific segment. I think that is
true. But the larger idea isthis idea that NFL is open for diversity.
It's introducing something the discussion used tobe around white and black. This
is kind of opening that apperture nowa little bit a little bit broader.
Used to be about men, menand women, and you're seeing this aperture
(22:02):
widening and you're going to see moreand more of this happening. I think
that's going all troop for virtually everysingle and at the outer if you draw
the timeline out far enough. Ithink that's actually one of the most interesting
things about that campaign, because itwas you know, it ran at halftime,
as you know, and given thatgame was about the first time two
black quarterbacks, we're going to playagainst each other, and given the backdrop
(22:26):
of everything else that was going on, the fact that they actually pivoted and
didn't talk about you know too,you know, black and white, and
actually talked about female and Hispanic andand and again did it in a very
interesting way. Given she was thehero of that ad, I thought was
you know, took a lot ofguts. You know, I'm sure that
wasn't the obvious way to go giveneverything else that was going on in the
(22:47):
world. So I hope somebody inclusiveor with the different point of view must
have been in the room when theycame up with you know that up,
Yeah, I believe, So Idon't I don't think. I don't think
this was obvious ad for the NFLto run. I agree for you there,
So what about the future, whatare these campaigns? Tell us about
(23:08):
the moment that we're in right now. How can we harness the power of
diversity to drive innovation within our ownmarketing initiatives. Another campaign and we had
a little bit to do with this, but I'm interested in your point of
view, which is McDonald So Ithink you know McDonald's has had this program
(23:30):
now around meals is started with TravisScott. Actually this has been done by
the advertise has been done by Widenand Kennedy by the way, which is
a great, you know, independentfirm and Sharp's the best work around the
world. Speaking of Nike, theyalso we work with them on helping to
pick, you know, the peoplethat are actually going to create these meals.
So started with Travis Scott and itwas BTS. It was Mariah Carey
(23:53):
for Christmas, which was a hugehit. So the latest meal, which
was done for Valentine's Day was launchedduring the Super Bowl, was Cardi bing
offset Um and short of real diversityof couples in the in the advertising as
you saw, so interested in inin what's your take on that it plays
with something that I that I thinkabout all the time. It is it
(24:17):
is about who who is? Whoare we today? And McDonald's has always
been about America. Like everybody inAmerica, everybody can go to McDonald's.
And so I think this is whatthat's the message that this is bringing across.
And when you when when you bringit to couples, you add on
a whole new dimension, which Ithought was interesting. Right here previously be
(24:42):
talking about race or age or countryor or something like that, but here
you're also talking about couples in termsof um, are you are you into
racial? Are you? Are youm gay, lesbian? Are you so?
Like you can just this just itenables you to further broadening the discussion
(25:06):
around who is represented in uh inin in the United States today. And
so that to me was the wasthe again was the takeaway. But it's
but it's actually it's a sign.There's this ideal, there's this notion that
this is backlash. You know,it's two woke. But ask yourself for
(25:33):
what happened if when did that?You do campaign where there's no diversity in
it? Right, Like, justif you visualize it, what would happen?
Like Like, it's not about whatone what was the desire or what
it's about. It's it's simply aboutwhere the world is heading. These are
(25:56):
forces that no one person, noone country can stop. These are massive
forces that have been in the makingfor decades. Well, I think one
of the most interesting things about thecampaign in general, I think about these
meals in general, whether it beyou know, Mariah Carey or BTS.
(26:17):
I mean it's a Korean boy band, right. So you know what McDonald's
has done is bring these celebrities togetheraround their fame, you know, their
favorite meals, and then in turnserves that to people obviously, and even
those meals in general, by theway, are pretty diverse. You know,
Travis Scott did fries with barbecue,sauce, etc. Yeah. Yeah,
And it doesn't feel forced to me, right because I mean nobody said,
(26:42):
oh, we're doing a meal.And by the way, it's a
Korean boy man, I mean itwas BTS, and so you've got TSS
hit it big, right, Andnot only that, right, that fact
it's also in the psychis in otherwords, there's a particular way that these
things unfold. I believe all.I believe that is very true. There
is a moment where Korean culture isfinding them a broader appeal and and that
(27:07):
but and eventually it will just besort of incorporated and be part of what
is happening in the in the world. There's going to be something else.
There's going to be another piece.You know, a couple of years ago,
Spotify help really drive a massive explosionof Latin American music, and you
would see a lot of um adsand campaigns that will sort of playoff for
(27:33):
that. So this like if youjust take a moment and reflect upon how
many how many cultures are there inthe world, how many countries, Right,
this is going to keep on goingfor a while. We're going to
be We're going to basically go intoit's gonna be something else, and it's
usually driven by some unexpected circumstance.Right, BTS has made it big,
(27:56):
you got squigams. You combine allthat and as the Korean moments and you're
seeing an explosion of TV shows andcontent and other things from from South Korea.
As I said, over time,that's going to switch into something else.
Being inclusive and being diverse, notjust being the right thing to do,
but actually being the smart thing todo in order to innovate, in
(28:19):
order to big better ideas to theworld. You started this whole discussion around
termites and architecture and how you knowit can use a lot less energy.
I mean, if we have oneproblem in the world right now, it's
climate change, and if we don'tbring that kind of diverse thinking to the
table, we probably will never solvethat. You know, what's probably the
world's greatest threat right now. That'sright to me, that has always been
(28:45):
the case, you know, whenI'm going back to my parents and going
after I grew up, of course, of course the idea that no matter
what your background is, the thereneeds to be equity, there needs to
be that, there needs to beinclusion, all of these things. These
are things to my mom talked alot about. Maybe didn't use those words
(29:08):
because they've been added later, butthat's what she was. But she was
talking about the opportunity whenever she feltthat I m in school. It happened.
Happened a couple of times. Iwas just not given the opportunities because
the teachers would assume that I justcould wouldn't get it. I mean,
she would come in fighting. Imean she'd be she'd be Rocky one,
(29:30):
two, three, four, andfive, and the sequels beyond that.
But but she would really she wouldreally she would really fight for my opportunity
to get the best um teaching,get the best materials and so on um.
But but what I remember in termsof the larger idea wasn't just that.
(29:56):
It was what I saw in theinteractions between my parents, which I
was very fortunate they were its twopeople that really built upon all that they
brought together to us as a family. And so that was really the stinking
in my mind. It was itwas it was multiple multiplicative. It's not
(30:18):
where I use often, but herewe go. And so, yeah,
we look to solve climate change,how are we going to do it.
It's not going to happen by justlooking at it from one perspective. It's
not gonna be just one industry,it's not going to be one scientific discipline.
It's not going to be one country. It's going to be all those
things, and it's going to beglobal. So what do those teams look
(30:42):
like? What are those problems looklike? What are those solutions? Who
thinks of them, who drives them, who makes them happen? Diverse teams?
List of friends. Were grateful andlucky that your parents were who they
were because they brought you to theworld and you brought this stinking around.
I'm a huge fan and we aretrying to use this kind of thinking in
(31:03):
our company every single day. Sothank you for spending this time with us,
thank you for your ideas and yourinspiration, and I look forward to
many other conversations in the future.Thank you, Brett. I really love
this conversation, so looking forward tothe same. That was my conversation with
(31:23):
friends Johansson, DNI thought leader andfounder of the Medici Group. I hope
you gained valuable insights as to whereyour next brainstorming session can go, whether
across teams by reversing your assumptions orsolidifying your team's conclusion initiatives. Next week
we'll speak with Door Skiller of IntuitionRobotics and Chinley, a fuse project.
(31:48):
We'll be discussing their partnership to bringellie Q to market. So what is
elleq. Well, it's small enoughto sit on your coffee table, but
powerful enough to be the ultimate companion. Elle Q is an emotionally intelligent AI
fueled personal assistant design for a veryniche and very special audience, the elderly.
This is a fascinating discussion about smartdesign, a smart marketing for a
(32:12):
completely new brand and new technology.But bringing ALQ to life and into homes
wasn't easy. Fuse project and Intuitionrobotics faced challenges and iques development, design,
and marketing. You'll learn more aboutthose next week. We'll see you then,
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