November 13, 2024 • 26 mins
Marketing to Gen-Z has been a challenge for as long as they entered the marketing world. It’s rare they will engage with any form of advertising and they seem to be allergic to branded content. So what kind of response and result would a brand get if they made a short film instead of an ad?
Join Brett as he invites Gah-Yee Won, Head of Marketing at Intuit, and Josh Budd, Chief Creative Officer at Citizen Relations, as they discuss their award-winning short–film Undone. Josh came to Intuit with an experiment to better market to Gen-Z and heavily play on the anxiety so many of us feel around tax time.
Tune in to better understand how a 9-minute short horror film helped to generate buzz at places like Drum Magazine, and even a few film festivals. If you want to jumpstart the way you engage with your Gen-Z customer base you’re not going to want to miss this.
-Subscribe to Partners in Possibility on all podcast platforms to get your finger on the pulse of marketing to Gen Z!
Undone Short Film
Join Brett as he invites Gah-Yee Won, Head of Marketing at Intuit, and Josh Budd, Chief Creative Officer at Citizen Relations, as they discuss their award-winning short–film Undone. Josh came to Intuit with an experiment to better market to Gen-Z and heavily play on the anxiety so many of us feel around tax time.
Tune in to better understand how a 9-minute short horror film helped to generate buzz at places like Drum Magazine, and even a few film festivals. If you want to jumpstart the way you engage with your Gen-Z customer base you’re not going to want to miss this.
-Subscribe to Partners in Possibility on all podcast platforms to get your finger on the pulse of marketing to Gen Z!
Undone Short Film
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
The idea we aligned on was, let's make a horror
film that brings to life the anxieties, truths and fears
of a gen Z making moves in their career, making
moves in their early stages of life, and how we
how do you make that entertaining.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
In an ever changing world. That's all about stained connected,
building connections and seeing where the next collaboration takes a
marketing campaign from an initial brief to the follow through.
What paths are going to make a campaign success more
than a possibility? Hi, I'm Brett marschand CEO of Plus
Company is Partners and Possibility. Today's podcast and Partners and Possibility,
(00:47):
We're going to talk to Guy ye Wan from Into
It and Chief creative Officer Josh Budd about an amazing
campaign they did called Undone. In our first section, we're
going to talk about the challenges and motivation to reach
out to gen Z and why they're so important to
Turbo Tax and their future. In our second section, we're
(01:09):
going to talk about pushing the creative bounds and how
they used a short film director, a horror film director
instead of a traditional advertising and a production team to
make this amazing content Coming up. We're going to talk
about how important timing is, especially when you're talking about
tax season, but also how important trust is between the
marketer and the advertising and agency team to make an
(01:32):
amazing campaign like this. Welcome to the latest episode of
Partners and Possibility, the podcast that reviews great campaigns and
other stories in the marketing world. Today. I'd like to
welcome back Josh Budd, creative director of Citizen, and Guy
(01:55):
y Wan, who's the head of marketing into it. Listen.
I'm really excited about this podcast because I think the campaign,
which we're going to talk about in a minute, is
really amazing. But before we get into the campaign and
let out all the great gifts about how it came
about and what you did, what I'd like to do
is just start with the challenge. What were you trying
to do here, guy E. What's the problem you were
(02:18):
trying to solve? Who who are you targeting? Let's let's
start there and then we'll we'll talk about the actual idea.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yeah, for sure. So the challenge was to speak to
a pretty elusive audience, which is our gen Z cohort
and and the challenge was do something you know that
was that was engaging, but also that would catch them
off guard, catch them by surprise, and really speak to
(02:45):
the tax anxiety that a lot of our younger consumers face.
And so that was a challenge that went out to
our our agency partners to try and solve this season.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Gen Z is I mean, as you say, it's they're elusive.
A lot of marketers are trying to figure out how
to market to them and how to engage them, especially
since there's such a different generation in many ways with
social media and you know, work life balance and all
kinds of other things. But why gen Z for Turbo tax?
Speaker 3 (03:17):
So are our market is taxes and so where does
that grow? Where do where do people start thinking about
their taxes first job, you know, coming out from under
their parents' tax situation. So gen Z is a huge
growth area for us. Along with newcomers, those are the
two places where the Canadian population grows. And so when
when we when we're thinking about where where does our
(03:40):
business need to go? Gen Z is really a huge
proportion of that. Getting them in early, helping them understand
their taxes, helping alleviate that fear that they face and
that anxiety that they have, which is real helping them,
helping them overcome that is really important, and you know,
really how we feel like we'll reach that audience.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
And I presume that, you know, like other categories. I know,
beer is one of these gen z. You know, when
you first do your taxes, I assume it's like drinking
your first beer, you kind of adopt, you know, a
brand and then tend to stick with it.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
And a lot of people stick with what their parents did,
and so you know, there's some calcified notions about about
taxes and about tax prep. There's also a lot of
like I don't want to think about it, and so
how do we break through that? How do we break
through that like out of mind, out of sight to
do something that will really speak to those people who
(04:37):
are new to it, who probably actually haven't had that education.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Right.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
We could talk about financial literacy till till the Cows
come home, but that's really one of those things, right,
people don't get that education in school, and so you
know you kind of just like do whatever your parents
did or whatever comes easiest. And so we need to
break through there and speak to them and show them
how were different.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, and you know, I have two gen Z children,
both of whom in just the last couple of years
have started new jobs and had to do tax for
the first time instead of us doing it for them.
And you know, this anxiety is a real issue. You know,
it's pretty scary.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
They don't learn how to do that in school, right,
Like I, you know, I don't know about you guys,
but when I was in school, there was no financial literacy.
Everything you learned was kind of out in the wild.
And so it's really important for us to make sure that,
you know, we address the anxiety and then we also
address how we can help you. We can address you know,
that financial understanding and education that maybe you didn't quite
(05:40):
get when you were in school.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Speaking of scary you picked a horror genre for this campaign.
Tell me a little bit about you know why and
how you came to that decision.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Well, obviously gen Z love horror films that they are
consumers of that, and so you know, we were like,
what can we do that's you know, completely different that
you wouldn't expect from something that you know, is a
tax software. We're just kind of boring. We wanted to
do the opposite of boring, and that's a and that's
a horror film, and so why not do something a
(06:17):
little bit shocking, do something that is completely unexpected and
frankly made some of some of our executives a little uncomfortable, right,
And I think that that's a that's a good thing,
getting people out of their comfort zone. And so this
this accomplished a lot of that.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Did the horror idea come from you and your team
or or was it a broader brief to Citizen and
Josh's team.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
It was not from our team. I'm going to throw
it to Josh because it was all this the incredible
brainchild of our partners at Citizen.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
I will say, we did not expect you to pick it.
I think we've presented five or six ideas and one
of them is like we like it, not sure they will.
And I think it was maybe in the first meeting
or like very early the next day, where like the
team is quite decisive, they were like, there's something here.
I think it's interesting. Let's explore it and be.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Like, oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
All right, let's go with it. And it's one thing
to propose to your client that you make a horror film.
It's another thing altogether to start to digest that and
understand this isn't a fifteen second spot, It's not a
thirty second spot. This is a long form narrative that
has to compete with all of the other long form
it's entertainment, and once you start to play in that world,
(07:33):
you have a different kind of standards and criteria that
you have to execute. So once you said yes, we
were excited, but then we were kind of like, ah, right,
how are we going to do this?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah? I mean it takes a brave client to do
a campaign like this, So congratulations you on that.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
We are decisive and determined, if not anything, So I
also want, you know, our agencies to know, bring us
an incredible idea and we'll get behind it. And from
there it just felt like it was a snowball happening
right like great idea and then you know, we saw
the writing, we saw the production. I mean it was
incredible and I'm so proud of the work. And I
(08:12):
knew I would be the second I saw the idea,
and I think, you know that's the thing, right, Like
sometimes you can't quantify that gut feeling, but you know
what's going to happen.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Okay, So Josh, you you present this idea along with
the other five. Guy and Team says, let's go. Now,
what great great question? Did you act write the full
full short film? Because this is a you know, for
our audience. This was a nine minute short horror film,
which is pretty incredible. Everyone should watch it. But I
(08:43):
presume you didn't show up with a nine minute scripted film,
did you?
Speaker 4 (08:47):
We did? We did, Hey, guys, I needed to show
you this Another Sofia original. Check out the link in
my bio. Another Sofia original. Check out another Sofia original.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
The idea we aligned on was, let's make a horror
film that brings to life the anxieties, proofs and fears
of a gen z making moves in their career, making
moves in their early stages of life. And how we
how do you make that entertaining? So you know, the
first thing in our mind was it has to be entertaining.
(09:23):
If it if it smells like branded content too early,
or if it smells like the world is rosy and
beautiful and all you have to do is click here,
then it's not going to land. And so you know,
we aligned really early on with our partners on Guyi's
team is like first and foremost, this has to be
as scary, as interesting, as compelling as any short horror film.
(09:46):
And once, you know, once the client was nodding, once
we were holding hands on that, the rest of the process,
I mean it was it was arduous, but we had
our north star. There was never any lack of alignment
on what we were trying to do. And I mean
I don't mean just to say this because you're here, Guyy,
but like your team was really really phenomenal through the
entire process, very trusting but also challenging, and I think
(10:09):
the output is a true testament to partnership, to be honest,
because there were lots of times where we could have
slit a logo in or a brochure on a desk,
and over and over it was like, Nope, that's not scary, Nope,
that's not going to work, And we found our time
to bring the brand and I think we did a
good job on that.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Yeah, I think if I can add to that, we've
had experience, we have done branded content before that is
so light touch, and actually we see such incredible results
from that. The unaided brand recall of like you know,
maybe we showed the logo once maybe twice. Maybe we
said turbo tax once. But if you make amazing, beautiful, compelling,
(10:50):
engaging content, people will remember, and that is such an
important thing to remember when we're going about making this
type of content.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Speaking of making great content, he's got a pretty amazing
director for this, right, Josh Philip Terlecki, who's done a
bunch of short horror films. I think he's even shown
at Conso how did you accomplish that?
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Again goes back to our aligned objective. It has to
be scary. So rather than looking for a commercial director
and being like, hey, can you make a scary film,
we did the opposite. We found a horror director and said,
hey can you make this piece of light touch branded content.
And again, some of the tropes of horror we all
know in terms of like you know, jump scares and
(11:31):
scary moments and things like that, but the crafting of
those moments is a very specific skill. And so having
someone who lives in that world, breathed that world, like
we know the brand side, we know the story side,
he knows the horror side. It was an important inclusion.
He also came with a lot of good recommendations in
terms of how to stretch the value of our investment
(11:52):
in special effects, which is always something you know you're
looking for. So he brought a lot of value to
the post production process as well. So it felt like
a really good thing. And honestly, he was really stoked
to do it, which is also something you love to
hear from a director when they're like chopping at the
bit to get behind the camera. And you know, the
first chat with him, he was all in. He was
(12:13):
super excited, and that goes such a long way in
terms of looking for partners. You know, our friends at
Turbot Tacks, they were excited, We were super excited. So
the more super excited people you have just obviously the
better the project's going to be. And he brought a
lot of value in thinking about how the special effects
are going to actually come to life, what kind of
(12:36):
metaphors we had in mind would work and look great,
what might not some alternatives I will say the creative
team had The script is pretty close to what we
ended up shooting, give or take, but there were definitely
some moments where Philip would step in and be like,
but if we did this, this would look rad and
I know how we'd do it. I know, you know,
(12:56):
the post people who are the right people who can
do it within our budget. So he brought a lot
of value in just in terms of understanding how to
make the genre, and like I said, was a really
good partner through the whole process.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
I love the little nod to taxes do on the
calendar in the background. It wasn't you know, in your face,
but you know, if you noticed it, it gave you
just a hint of what was going on, which I
thought was really brilliant. Maybe to talk a little bit
about casting because I know that. I mean it was
the first time actress, right that played the lead role.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Yeah, I mean it was her first, her first you
know kind of feature film if you will, and she
was amazing. I mean she really hit those emotions and
the anxiety, and I mean, you know, she is gen
z like she who she is, and I think that
probably made it much easier for her to step into
(14:05):
the role, into our lead role. She was amazing. And
our monster also, you know, was really his first big role,
and he was incredible too. I mean, you know, not
only the hair and the makeup, but the actual portrayal,
like he really was creepy. I was I was scared.
(14:27):
He had those finger motions down. So I think we
I think that the casting was incredible, and you know,
Josh and his team, they really found the right people
to do this.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
I know with the lead, I remember getting a text.
I wasn't at the casting, the team was there. They
sent me a text saying, we have our lead. We
don't have a backup. We don't need a backup. She's perfect.
I think we can sell her like, yeah, she's that perfect.
I don't think we need to present three options for
the sake of having three options. And again, the minute
anyone anyone saw her, she's so evocative with her her
(15:00):
face and like, you know, horror is so much about
that close up, that reaction, and.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
She just's natural. Excellent actors did a great job when
when you know at the end, when you come back
with the brand, you know where she's in the bright
light and all is good. I thought she did a
great job on both ends, because you know, sometimes people
can do horror and can't do sunny disposition, but she
was great at both.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
I thought she's got a bright future of that one.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Yeah, let's talk a little bit about how you distributed it.
So nine minute film which you obviously can't use everywhere,
even though a lot of people have watched it, and
we'll talk about that in the results, but talk maybe
a little bit about the distribution strategy on this and
how you got it out there for people to to
(15:48):
to either link to watch it and or to get
a teaser on it.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Yeah, I mean, we we love when our agencies work together,
and this is one of those great times where it
was like, you know, Citizen came up with this incredible
idea for this film, and then it was a plus,
it was an and so we also ended up having
the trailer across the Internet on our social channels through
(16:12):
paid Obviously, the movie itself lived on YouTube or lives
on YouTube because you can watch the full nine minute movie.
But you know, I think one of the greatest ideas
was putting it in movie theaters and getting getting the
trailer into as close as possible to the trailers of
(16:34):
big budget Hollywood films. And we had such amazing response.
Our friends at Cineplex actually bonused us a whole bunch
of impressions that were like, this is amazing. Let's get
this across the country so you could actually see the
trailer next to you know, big, huge other movies, you know,
Hollywood blockbusters across every single English market in Canada. So really,
(17:00):
you know, took this project and blew it out of
the water in ways that you know, I think we
were like, this is like a big budget movie, this
is how you you know, advertise, and we saw so much,
so much engagement with it from it.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
You know, it's just it's a great sign that it's
good film and it's engaging when you put it in
theaters and people like it. Because let's let's be honest,
people go to watch the movies, not to watch ads
at the beginning. So you must have been really proud
of that.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Yeah, yeah, super proud of that.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
So let's talk a little bit about, you know, what
you learned from doing this, maybe touch on a little
bit of the results. So, I mean, first of all,
what were you trying to I mean, you talked about
what you were trying to accomplish, which was obviously get
you gen zs to use TURBOTECHX. Maybe that guy you
can touch a little bit on what kind of results
you saw from this.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Yeah, I mean there was twofold right, So this came
from our pr coms team. So one of our big
plays here was to get some press to get people excited,
and we got picked up by quite a few you know,
industry magazines sites. We we were awarded Best Creative the
Week from the Drum, which was so exciting. We really
(18:08):
did get a lot of pick up here, so you know,
the industry excitement and people hearing about it was one
of them. The other piece was helping us reach our
gen Z audience and so getting getting some pickup in
mainstream media too and having people and having you know,
influencers talk about it. We really had a lot of
(18:29):
buzz around this little film that we did, which was
really incredible and probably one of the biggest pre coms
play that we've had in Canada in quite some years.
So you know, to me, that was very successful in
reaching our helping us reach our gen Z audience.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
And you probably have a pretty limited time, right, I mean,
tax season is not long. I presume that you've got
to catch them. Right When did you start the campaign?
Speaker 3 (18:59):
We started the campaign in April and really the biggest
time for us, so tax season is basically from mid
February we'll say, until the end of April, and so
we have a very narrow window, really only a couple
of weeks to really make our year. And so you
(19:20):
know this, this film coming out in April was the
perfect time. It's when people are thinking about their taxes,
starting to gear up, figure out what they're going to use,
and so the timing was really important to make sure
that we were at the height of that you know,
buzz around taxes.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
We were also at the height of the anxiety, which
I think is why the content played so well. Not
only was the top of mind, but like that's where
the like the anxiety, the fear that what should I
do reaches a bit of a fever pitch, which is
when the content in the brain can come in both
to say, hey, we get you, but also we can
help you.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
I mean, it's such a great insight by the way.
I know you talked about it being gen z in
site guy, but I still feel anxiety. And I've done
a lot of taxes, as you can tell by my
my beard.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
No, it is, and it's something that's a bit ubiquitous
right across all of our audiences. Even if you've done
your taxes, you know, a handful of times you're still
you've got new situations, maybe you bought a house, maybe
you had a baby, you know, and these are all
things that impact your tax situation, and so you always
have questions. And so if we can show you that
(20:32):
we understand you one and two, that we we can
actually alleviate those fears. And that's really all the branding
we had in there was at the very end, is
like that that that you know, comfort feeling that we
can help you. That's what we're trying to do. That's
what we're trying to talk to is is just help
customers understand that whether you're Gen z or or a
(20:55):
boomer or Gen X or a millennial, you know, we
have thiss that can help you.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Josh, I'm sure you've done some long form in your past,
but any key learnings for you from this project.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Well, with long form, I mean people like the more
you have on like in the can, the more content
there is for people to nitpick at. Right, So the
longer the piece of content, the you know, obviously people
were wondered, doesn't need to be that long, you know,
they start to really scrutinize it. But in this case,
like I honestly think it was exactly as long as
(21:31):
it needed to be it didn't feel bloated, it didn't
feel rushed, And I think, you know, when you're doing
long form, that's you just gotta kind of throw the
rules out of it, like best practices suggest that this
or that, it's like whatever the story needs to be told.
And that's to your point bred earlier, where a director
is so key, like you write the film with the script,
(21:53):
you write the film again in production, and then you
write the film one more time in post, and it
continues to get tighter and stronger. We shed some of
the stuff that's not working, or in some cases add
some things in production that are actually quite magical because
you discover them on set.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
So I think, you.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Know, when you have the luxury of longer form, you
just have to lean into it and not worry so
much about a specific length you might.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Have in mind. Yeah, good point. Was there a director's
cut that was like twenty seven minutes?
Speaker 1 (22:20):
I don't think so in this case, because you know what,
the director was the editor as well. You know historically
he cuts his own work as well, So in this case,
the director's cut I believe pretty much mirrors the agency's
cut again and or the the in market cut, which
one more time is a testament to Gaye and the
TurboTax team.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
So, guy, you what about for you any key learnings
that you take from a project like this that will
help in future campaigns, either on TurboTax or anything else
that you guys do.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
One of the things that we really try to do
is trust the process, trust the people. And so you know,
for me, that's a big learning that we keep applying
is trust our teams and really give them that time
and space to breathe. As you were saying earlier, Josh,
is you know, let let the project breathe. We don't
(23:11):
need to you know, we don't need to be there
for everything, but you know that's when you get some magic.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
And so.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
For us, uh, this was a this was a great success.
There were really some incredible you know, some incredible feedback
that we caught. We got internally as well as externally,
and so you know, if anything, just do.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
More of this. Yeah, and that kind of trust, you know,
in my experience, both trust in the agency that comes
from you and trust internally and you as the marketing
Department's really important.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Yeah, one hundred percent, you know, and we have that
trust with all of our agencies, which is really important.
You know, trust the partners that you work with, know
that they know what they're doing, and they and their guidance.
They've got the experience, so you know, make sure that
you let them do the thing that they're best at.
Get get out of the way, you know.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Yeah, that's good advice. So what's next? Is there an
undone two coming in twenty twenty five or if you
guys thought about where this goes next, that's a good question.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
I I loved the film. I think you know, something
else along these lines would be great. Undone too would
be amazing too. You know, everybody loves a good sequel
or maybe even a prequel. Who knows. Yeah, we'll see.
I'm I'm excited to see what the team comes up with.
I think I don't want to limit you guys. I
(24:37):
feel like, you know, we got the best idea after
just saying, hey, come back to us with something incredible.
So I'm I'm actually going to say I don't know,
and I'm going to say, Josh, the balls of your court.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
One of the great things about horror is that you could,
you know, scream what is their scream twenty seven?
Speaker 5 (24:57):
So you could do this for a lot of years
we could I what I love about this year's partnership again,
it wasn't born from like let's make a horror film.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
That was born from let's do something that is unique, engaging,
disruptive and will work. So if that's the brief again
next year, and we can build upon the success of
this year, then I think we take it back to
blank page and could there be an undone too? Probably
could there be a rom com that achieves the same goal.
Maybe I don't know, yeah, or you know, it could
(25:31):
be something something totally different, And I think that's the
That's the great thing about trust, right, is that you
don't need to fall back on well, it works, so
we must do it again to make sure it works.
There's a foundation there that gives us a lot more runway,
which is great.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Well, listen, this podcast is called partners and Possibilities, and
this is a great example of you guys partnering to
do something that I'm not sure anyone would have thought
was possible. So congratulations. I think the work is really amaze.
I'm super grateful that you guys spent this time with
me and proud of what you produced.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
So Joe team, Thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
That was Guy ye Wan and Josh Budd giving their
experience and insight into why marketing to gen Z is
so important to TurboTax and how they engage that audience
using an amazing short horror film. Thanks for joining us
on today's episode of Partners and Possibility
The idea we aligned on was, let's make a horror
film that brings to life the anxieties, truths and fears
of a gen Z making moves in their career, making
moves in their early stages of life, and how we
how do you make that entertaining.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
In an ever changing world. That's all about stained connected,
building connections and seeing where the next collaboration takes a
marketing campaign from an initial brief to the follow through.
What paths are going to make a campaign success more
than a possibility? Hi, I'm Brett marschand CEO of Plus
Company is Partners and Possibility. Today's podcast and Partners and Possibility,
(00:47):
We're going to talk to Guy ye Wan from Into
It and Chief creative Officer Josh Budd about an amazing
campaign they did called Undone. In our first section, we're
going to talk about the challenges and motivation to reach
out to gen Z and why they're so important to
Turbo Tax and their future. In our second section, we're
(01:09):
going to talk about pushing the creative bounds and how
they used a short film director, a horror film director
instead of a traditional advertising and a production team to
make this amazing content Coming up. We're going to talk
about how important timing is, especially when you're talking about
tax season, but also how important trust is between the
marketer and the advertising and agency team to make an
(01:32):
amazing campaign like this. Welcome to the latest episode of
Partners and Possibility, the podcast that reviews great campaigns and
other stories in the marketing world. Today. I'd like to
welcome back Josh Budd, creative director of Citizen, and Guy
(01:55):
y Wan, who's the head of marketing into it. Listen.
I'm really excited about this podcast because I think the campaign,
which we're going to talk about in a minute, is
really amazing. But before we get into the campaign and
let out all the great gifts about how it came
about and what you did, what I'd like to do
is just start with the challenge. What were you trying
to do here, guy E. What's the problem you were
(02:18):
trying to solve? Who who are you targeting? Let's let's
start there and then we'll we'll talk about the actual idea.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yeah, for sure. So the challenge was to speak to
a pretty elusive audience, which is our gen Z cohort
and and the challenge was do something you know that
was that was engaging, but also that would catch them
off guard, catch them by surprise, and really speak to
(02:45):
the tax anxiety that a lot of our younger consumers face.
And so that was a challenge that went out to
our our agency partners to try and solve this season.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Gen Z is I mean, as you say, it's they're elusive.
A lot of marketers are trying to figure out how
to market to them and how to engage them, especially
since there's such a different generation in many ways with
social media and you know, work life balance and all
kinds of other things. But why gen Z for Turbo tax?
Speaker 3 (03:17):
So are our market is taxes and so where does
that grow? Where do where do people start thinking about
their taxes first job, you know, coming out from under
their parents' tax situation. So gen Z is a huge
growth area for us. Along with newcomers, those are the
two places where the Canadian population grows. And so when
when we when we're thinking about where where does our
(03:40):
business need to go? Gen Z is really a huge
proportion of that. Getting them in early, helping them understand
their taxes, helping alleviate that fear that they face and
that anxiety that they have, which is real helping them,
helping them overcome that is really important, and you know,
really how we feel like we'll reach that audience.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
And I presume that, you know, like other categories. I know,
beer is one of these gen z. You know, when
you first do your taxes, I assume it's like drinking
your first beer, you kind of adopt, you know, a
brand and then tend to stick with it.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
And a lot of people stick with what their parents did,
and so you know, there's some calcified notions about about
taxes and about tax prep. There's also a lot of
like I don't want to think about it, and so
how do we break through that? How do we break
through that like out of mind, out of sight to
do something that will really speak to those people who
(04:37):
are new to it, who probably actually haven't had that education.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Right.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
We could talk about financial literacy till till the Cows
come home, but that's really one of those things, right,
people don't get that education in school, and so you
know you kind of just like do whatever your parents
did or whatever comes easiest. And so we need to
break through there and speak to them and show them
how were different.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, and you know, I have two gen Z children,
both of whom in just the last couple of years
have started new jobs and had to do tax for
the first time instead of us doing it for them.
And you know, this anxiety is a real issue. You know,
it's pretty scary.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
They don't learn how to do that in school, right,
Like I, you know, I don't know about you guys,
but when I was in school, there was no financial literacy.
Everything you learned was kind of out in the wild.
And so it's really important for us to make sure that,
you know, we address the anxiety and then we also
address how we can help you. We can address you know,
that financial understanding and education that maybe you didn't quite
(05:40):
get when you were in school.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Speaking of scary you picked a horror genre for this campaign.
Tell me a little bit about you know why and
how you came to that decision.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Well, obviously gen Z love horror films that they are
consumers of that, and so you know, we were like,
what can we do that's you know, completely different that
you wouldn't expect from something that you know, is a
tax software. We're just kind of boring. We wanted to
do the opposite of boring, and that's a and that's
a horror film, and so why not do something a
(06:17):
little bit shocking, do something that is completely unexpected and
frankly made some of some of our executives a little uncomfortable, right,
And I think that that's a that's a good thing,
getting people out of their comfort zone. And so this
this accomplished a lot of that.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Did the horror idea come from you and your team
or or was it a broader brief to Citizen and
Josh's team.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
It was not from our team. I'm going to throw
it to Josh because it was all this the incredible
brainchild of our partners at Citizen.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
I will say, we did not expect you to pick it.
I think we've presented five or six ideas and one
of them is like we like it, not sure they will.
And I think it was maybe in the first meeting
or like very early the next day, where like the
team is quite decisive, they were like, there's something here.
I think it's interesting. Let's explore it and be.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Like, oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
All right, let's go with it. And it's one thing
to propose to your client that you make a horror film.
It's another thing altogether to start to digest that and
understand this isn't a fifteen second spot, It's not a
thirty second spot. This is a long form narrative that
has to compete with all of the other long form
it's entertainment, and once you start to play in that world,
(07:33):
you have a different kind of standards and criteria that
you have to execute. So once you said yes, we
were excited, but then we were kind of like, ah, right,
how are we going to do this?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah? I mean it takes a brave client to do
a campaign like this, So congratulations you on that.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
We are decisive and determined, if not anything, So I
also want, you know, our agencies to know, bring us
an incredible idea and we'll get behind it. And from
there it just felt like it was a snowball happening
right like great idea and then you know, we saw
the writing, we saw the production. I mean it was
incredible and I'm so proud of the work. And I
(08:12):
knew I would be the second I saw the idea,
and I think, you know that's the thing, right, Like
sometimes you can't quantify that gut feeling, but you know
what's going to happen.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Okay, So Josh, you you present this idea along with
the other five. Guy and Team says, let's go. Now,
what great great question? Did you act write the full
full short film? Because this is a you know, for
our audience. This was a nine minute short horror film,
which is pretty incredible. Everyone should watch it. But I
(08:43):
presume you didn't show up with a nine minute scripted film,
did you?
Speaker 4 (08:47):
We did? We did, Hey, guys, I needed to show
you this Another Sofia original. Check out the link in
my bio. Another Sofia original. Check out another Sofia original.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
The idea we aligned on was, let's make a horror
film that brings to life the anxieties, proofs and fears
of a gen z making moves in their career, making
moves in their early stages of life. And how we
how do you make that entertaining? So you know, the
first thing in our mind was it has to be entertaining.
(09:23):
If it if it smells like branded content too early,
or if it smells like the world is rosy and
beautiful and all you have to do is click here,
then it's not going to land. And so you know,
we aligned really early on with our partners on Guyi's
team is like first and foremost, this has to be
as scary, as interesting, as compelling as any short horror film.
(09:46):
And once, you know, once the client was nodding, once
we were holding hands on that, the rest of the process,
I mean it was it was arduous, but we had
our north star. There was never any lack of alignment
on what we were trying to do. And I mean
I don't mean just to say this because you're here, Guyy,
but like your team was really really phenomenal through the
entire process, very trusting but also challenging, and I think
(10:09):
the output is a true testament to partnership, to be honest,
because there were lots of times where we could have
slit a logo in or a brochure on a desk,
and over and over it was like, Nope, that's not scary, Nope,
that's not going to work, And we found our time
to bring the brand and I think we did a
good job on that.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Yeah, I think if I can add to that, we've
had experience, we have done branded content before that is
so light touch, and actually we see such incredible results
from that. The unaided brand recall of like you know,
maybe we showed the logo once maybe twice. Maybe we
said turbo tax once. But if you make amazing, beautiful, compelling,
(10:50):
engaging content, people will remember, and that is such an
important thing to remember when we're going about making this
type of content.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Speaking of making great content, he's got a pretty amazing
director for this, right, Josh Philip Terlecki, who's done a
bunch of short horror films. I think he's even shown
at Conso how did you accomplish that?
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Again goes back to our aligned objective. It has to
be scary. So rather than looking for a commercial director
and being like, hey, can you make a scary film,
we did the opposite. We found a horror director and said,
hey can you make this piece of light touch branded content.
And again, some of the tropes of horror we all
know in terms of like you know, jump scares and
(11:31):
scary moments and things like that, but the crafting of
those moments is a very specific skill. And so having
someone who lives in that world, breathed that world, like
we know the brand side, we know the story side,
he knows the horror side. It was an important inclusion.
He also came with a lot of good recommendations in
terms of how to stretch the value of our investment
(11:52):
in special effects, which is always something you know you're
looking for. So he brought a lot of value to
the post production process as well. So it felt like
a really good thing. And honestly, he was really stoked
to do it, which is also something you love to
hear from a director when they're like chopping at the
bit to get behind the camera. And you know, the
first chat with him, he was all in. He was
(12:13):
super excited, and that goes such a long way in
terms of looking for partners. You know, our friends at
Turbot Tacks, they were excited, We were super excited. So
the more super excited people you have just obviously the
better the project's going to be. And he brought a
lot of value in thinking about how the special effects
are going to actually come to life, what kind of
(12:36):
metaphors we had in mind would work and look great,
what might not some alternatives I will say the creative
team had The script is pretty close to what we
ended up shooting, give or take, but there were definitely
some moments where Philip would step in and be like,
but if we did this, this would look rad and
I know how we'd do it. I know, you know,
(12:56):
the post people who are the right people who can
do it within our budget. So he brought a lot
of value in just in terms of understanding how to
make the genre, and like I said, was a really
good partner through the whole process.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
I love the little nod to taxes do on the
calendar in the background. It wasn't you know, in your face,
but you know, if you noticed it, it gave you
just a hint of what was going on, which I
thought was really brilliant. Maybe to talk a little bit
about casting because I know that. I mean it was
the first time actress, right that played the lead role.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Yeah, I mean it was her first, her first you
know kind of feature film if you will, and she
was amazing. I mean she really hit those emotions and
the anxiety, and I mean, you know, she is gen
z like she who she is, and I think that
probably made it much easier for her to step into
(14:05):
the role, into our lead role. She was amazing. And
our monster also, you know, was really his first big role,
and he was incredible too. I mean, you know, not
only the hair and the makeup, but the actual portrayal,
like he really was creepy. I was I was scared.
(14:27):
He had those finger motions down. So I think we
I think that the casting was incredible, and you know,
Josh and his team, they really found the right people
to do this.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
I know with the lead, I remember getting a text.
I wasn't at the casting, the team was there. They
sent me a text saying, we have our lead. We
don't have a backup. We don't need a backup. She's perfect.
I think we can sell her like, yeah, she's that perfect.
I don't think we need to present three options for
the sake of having three options. And again, the minute
anyone anyone saw her, she's so evocative with her her
(15:00):
face and like, you know, horror is so much about
that close up, that reaction, and.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
She just's natural. Excellent actors did a great job when
when you know at the end, when you come back
with the brand, you know where she's in the bright
light and all is good. I thought she did a
great job on both ends, because you know, sometimes people
can do horror and can't do sunny disposition, but she
was great at both.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
I thought she's got a bright future of that one.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Yeah, let's talk a little bit about how you distributed it.
So nine minute film which you obviously can't use everywhere,
even though a lot of people have watched it, and
we'll talk about that in the results, but talk maybe
a little bit about the distribution strategy on this and
how you got it out there for people to to
(15:48):
to either link to watch it and or to get
a teaser on it.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Yeah, I mean, we we love when our agencies work together,
and this is one of those great times where it
was like, you know, Citizen came up with this incredible
idea for this film, and then it was a plus,
it was an and so we also ended up having
the trailer across the Internet on our social channels through
(16:12):
paid Obviously, the movie itself lived on YouTube or lives
on YouTube because you can watch the full nine minute movie.
But you know, I think one of the greatest ideas
was putting it in movie theaters and getting getting the
trailer into as close as possible to the trailers of
(16:34):
big budget Hollywood films. And we had such amazing response.
Our friends at Cineplex actually bonused us a whole bunch
of impressions that were like, this is amazing. Let's get
this across the country so you could actually see the
trailer next to you know, big, huge other movies, you know,
Hollywood blockbusters across every single English market in Canada. So really,
(17:00):
you know, took this project and blew it out of
the water in ways that you know, I think we
were like, this is like a big budget movie, this
is how you you know, advertise, and we saw so much,
so much engagement with it from it.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
You know, it's just it's a great sign that it's
good film and it's engaging when you put it in
theaters and people like it. Because let's let's be honest,
people go to watch the movies, not to watch ads
at the beginning. So you must have been really proud
of that.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Yeah, yeah, super proud of that.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
So let's talk a little bit about, you know, what
you learned from doing this, maybe touch on a little
bit of the results. So, I mean, first of all,
what were you trying to I mean, you talked about
what you were trying to accomplish, which was obviously get
you gen zs to use TURBOTECHX. Maybe that guy you
can touch a little bit on what kind of results
you saw from this.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Yeah, I mean there was twofold right, So this came
from our pr coms team. So one of our big
plays here was to get some press to get people excited,
and we got picked up by quite a few you know,
industry magazines sites. We we were awarded Best Creative the
Week from the Drum, which was so exciting. We really
(18:08):
did get a lot of pick up here, so you know,
the industry excitement and people hearing about it was one
of them. The other piece was helping us reach our
gen Z audience and so getting getting some pickup in
mainstream media too and having people and having you know,
influencers talk about it. We really had a lot of
(18:29):
buzz around this little film that we did, which was
really incredible and probably one of the biggest pre coms
play that we've had in Canada in quite some years.
So you know, to me, that was very successful in
reaching our helping us reach our gen Z audience.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
And you probably have a pretty limited time, right, I mean,
tax season is not long. I presume that you've got
to catch them. Right When did you start the campaign?
Speaker 3 (18:59):
We started the campaign in April and really the biggest
time for us, so tax season is basically from mid
February we'll say, until the end of April, and so
we have a very narrow window, really only a couple
of weeks to really make our year. And so you
(19:20):
know this, this film coming out in April was the
perfect time. It's when people are thinking about their taxes,
starting to gear up, figure out what they're going to use,
and so the timing was really important to make sure
that we were at the height of that you know,
buzz around taxes.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
We were also at the height of the anxiety, which
I think is why the content played so well. Not
only was the top of mind, but like that's where
the like the anxiety, the fear that what should I
do reaches a bit of a fever pitch, which is
when the content in the brain can come in both
to say, hey, we get you, but also we can
help you.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
I mean, it's such a great insight by the way.
I know you talked about it being gen z in
site guy, but I still feel anxiety. And I've done
a lot of taxes, as you can tell by my
my beard.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
No, it is, and it's something that's a bit ubiquitous
right across all of our audiences. Even if you've done
your taxes, you know, a handful of times you're still
you've got new situations, maybe you bought a house, maybe
you had a baby, you know, and these are all
things that impact your tax situation, and so you always
have questions. And so if we can show you that
(20:32):
we understand you one and two, that we we can
actually alleviate those fears. And that's really all the branding
we had in there was at the very end, is
like that that that you know, comfort feeling that we
can help you. That's what we're trying to do. That's
what we're trying to talk to is is just help
customers understand that whether you're Gen z or or a
(20:55):
boomer or Gen X or a millennial, you know, we
have thiss that can help you.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Josh, I'm sure you've done some long form in your past,
but any key learnings for you from this project.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Well, with long form, I mean people like the more
you have on like in the can, the more content
there is for people to nitpick at. Right, So the
longer the piece of content, the you know, obviously people
were wondered, doesn't need to be that long, you know,
they start to really scrutinize it. But in this case,
like I honestly think it was exactly as long as
(21:31):
it needed to be it didn't feel bloated, it didn't
feel rushed, And I think, you know, when you're doing
long form, that's you just gotta kind of throw the
rules out of it, like best practices suggest that this
or that, it's like whatever the story needs to be told.
And that's to your point bred earlier, where a director
is so key, like you write the film with the script,
(21:53):
you write the film again in production, and then you
write the film one more time in post, and it
continues to get tighter and stronger. We shed some of
the stuff that's not working, or in some cases add
some things in production that are actually quite magical because
you discover them on set.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
So I think, you.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Know, when you have the luxury of longer form, you
just have to lean into it and not worry so
much about a specific length you might.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Have in mind. Yeah, good point. Was there a director's
cut that was like twenty seven minutes?
Speaker 1 (22:20):
I don't think so in this case, because you know what,
the director was the editor as well. You know historically
he cuts his own work as well, So in this case,
the director's cut I believe pretty much mirrors the agency's
cut again and or the the in market cut, which
one more time is a testament to Gaye and the
TurboTax team.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
So, guy, you what about for you any key learnings
that you take from a project like this that will
help in future campaigns, either on TurboTax or anything else
that you guys do.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
One of the things that we really try to do
is trust the process, trust the people. And so you know,
for me, that's a big learning that we keep applying
is trust our teams and really give them that time
and space to breathe. As you were saying earlier, Josh,
is you know, let let the project breathe. We don't
(23:11):
need to you know, we don't need to be there
for everything, but you know that's when you get some magic.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
And so.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
For us, uh, this was a this was a great success.
There were really some incredible you know, some incredible feedback
that we caught. We got internally as well as externally,
and so you know, if anything, just do.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
More of this. Yeah, and that kind of trust, you know,
in my experience, both trust in the agency that comes
from you and trust internally and you as the marketing
Department's really important.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Yeah, one hundred percent, you know, and we have that
trust with all of our agencies, which is really important.
You know, trust the partners that you work with, know
that they know what they're doing, and they and their guidance.
They've got the experience, so you know, make sure that
you let them do the thing that they're best at.
Get get out of the way, you know.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Yeah, that's good advice. So what's next? Is there an
undone two coming in twenty twenty five or if you
guys thought about where this goes next, that's a good question.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
I I loved the film. I think you know, something
else along these lines would be great. Undone too would
be amazing too. You know, everybody loves a good sequel
or maybe even a prequel. Who knows. Yeah, we'll see.
I'm I'm excited to see what the team comes up with.
I think I don't want to limit you guys. I
(24:37):
feel like, you know, we got the best idea after
just saying, hey, come back to us with something incredible.
So I'm I'm actually going to say I don't know,
and I'm going to say, Josh, the balls of your court.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
One of the great things about horror is that you could,
you know, scream what is their scream twenty seven?
Speaker 5 (24:57):
So you could do this for a lot of years
we could I what I love about this year's partnership again,
it wasn't born from like let's make a horror film.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
That was born from let's do something that is unique, engaging,
disruptive and will work. So if that's the brief again
next year, and we can build upon the success of
this year, then I think we take it back to
blank page and could there be an undone too? Probably
could there be a rom com that achieves the same goal.
Maybe I don't know, yeah, or you know, it could
(25:31):
be something something totally different, And I think that's the
That's the great thing about trust, right, is that you
don't need to fall back on well, it works, so
we must do it again to make sure it works.
There's a foundation there that gives us a lot more runway,
which is great.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Well, listen, this podcast is called partners and Possibilities, and
this is a great example of you guys partnering to
do something that I'm not sure anyone would have thought
was possible. So congratulations. I think the work is really amaze.
I'm super grateful that you guys spent this time with
me and proud of what you produced.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
So Joe team, Thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
That was Guy ye Wan and Josh Budd giving their
experience and insight into why marketing to gen Z is
so important to TurboTax and how they engage that audience
using an amazing short horror film. Thanks for joining us
on today's episode of Partners and Possibility
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