May 1, 2025 • 62 mins
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355: What happens when God's Word confronts our deepest desires and identity? For 16-year-old Chase Vu, it meant a profound transformation that upended everything he thought he knew about himself. Chase's journey begins at a gay-affirming church where he embraced both Christianity and homosexuality, believing the two could comfortably coexist. But when his mother and sister pointed him to 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Chase faced a spiritual crossroads that would demand his full surrender. "I had to realize that if you always substitute your faith for your feelings, then you're only going to be a Christian when it's convenient for you," Chase shares with wisdom beyond his years. Tune in to hear more about Chase's testimony.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
and welcome back to pastor plex podcast.
I am your host, pastor plec,and join me in studios none
other than pastor holland greg.
Welcome back, holland, thankyou so much.
Thank you, and also uh, withthis is jordan smith, a regular
guest around here, and then newto pastor plex podcast is none
other than chase Vu.
(00:25):
Welcome, chase.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
I'm so glad you're here.
So what are we talking about,Chase?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
So we're going to be talking about my own journey
with struggling with homosexualdesires.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
All right, let's talk about it.
And Jordan I brought him onbecause he is a person who also
struggles with same-sexattraction and he has been
wrestling and wrestling foryears on this one, and I would
love to hear you guys interact alittle bit, so talk to us.
First off, how long have youbeen a Christian?
What's your journey to thispoint?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
been.
So I personally have been aChristian for about four years
now, Ben.
So I personally have been aChristian for about four years
now and even after I was saved Iwas still under the impression
that it was okay to havehomosexual desires and act on
them.
Because I was at a gayaffirming church and I was kind
of taught that, you know, ourGod is a graceful God, a
(01:24):
forgiving God, and as long asyou love who you love, there's
not going to be any judgment forthat.
Basically, and that was thementality that I had for I'd say
, probably two years ago, um,when I got very serious in my
faith, um, my, both my sisterand my mom had told me about I
(01:50):
think it's first Corinthians sixnine, where it's talking about
um, people who act on homosexualdesires will not inherit the
kingdom of heaven.
And that was kind of anawakening for me, because I had
really wanted to get baptized atthe time, yeah, but I did not
want to get baptized.
I didn't want to get baptizedwhile still acting on homosexual
(02:13):
desires.
I didn't.
When I got baptized, I wanted tobe sure that I was ready to
fully commit to my relationshipwith God.
Okay, so I was like I'm notgoing to get baptized until I'm
100% sure that I'm ready to giveup that part of my life.
And it took a long time.
I waited a whole year and I waspraying about it and even after
(02:35):
I got baptized I stillstruggled with it.
But I which I think people withthose kinds of struggles might
struggle with them the rest ofyour life perhaps people with
those kind of struggles mightstruggle with them the rest of
your life perhaps.
But um, yeah, I definitely gotto a point where I decided I
need to put god first in my life.
So how did you like.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
so it was your mom and sister who, like, showed you
first corinthians 6, or are youreading on your own?
I mean, what was the thing likewhere you're at a gay affirming
church, you get saved there,right?
So like they talk about Jesusdied on the cross for your sins,
rose from the dead.
And then you're like cool.
And they're like, oh, by theway, if you are a homosexual, go
(03:17):
for it, we support that.
And then you shifted from that.
How'd you get to that church inthe first place?
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Hold on so can I talk real quick.
I don't have a lot of time here, so I will say Chase that verse
.
The thing that's helpful for meis also it talks about drunks
won't inherit the kingdom of Godand all these other sins.
People like to use that as likethe gay bashing verse, but
they're probably self-deceivedin a lot of ways and should
check themselves.
But verse, but they're probablyself-deceived in a lot of ways
(03:47):
and should check themselves.
But yeah, I'm also interesteddid you seek out a gay affirming
church or how'd you get?
Speaker 3 (03:49):
plugged in there.
No, so it was Brie and Pablo'schurch at the time and it goes
into like the my actualtestimony and deeper into that.
But Brie and Pablo had invitedme to go to that church and they
weren't aware that it was a gayaffirming church at the time, I
think.
But yeah, it's not necessarilythat they like openly talked
(04:13):
about the fact that theysupported it, they just also
didn't talk against it, right,and they would like baptize gay
couples together.
And that's kind of how I wentthere and I didn't really think
anything of it.
Um, because, as their teachingsat the time, they have improved
(04:34):
, I do still attend the churchon occasion, um, but at the time
they're teaching improved, likethey've shifted more concert,
like to say, like that's notokay now, or um, I think the
pastors of that specific churchhave okay.
However, they're part of a likea bigger branch of churches so,
like the head um pastor, I don'tthink allows them to really
(04:55):
talk about it wow well that'swild yeah yeah, had you read
those verses before any versethat was saying homosexuality is
a sin, acting on it at least.
Yeah.
So just to clarify, after mymom and sister had told me that
if you do want to be seriousabout your faith, you can't
really act on gay desires, I hadwent home and I know it sounds
(05:17):
silly, but I was kind of readingthrough my Bible because I was
really having a hard timeaccepting it and I was trying to
.
I was trying to look for like aloophole, almost like something
to justify my sin, and I wasreally just trying to find a
second way.
And then I found firstCorinthians, six, nine through
10.
And I was so utterly focused onhow it said you shall not
inherit the kingdom of heaven,and it just completely broke me.
(05:40):
But then, but then I foundverse 11 and it says and such
were some of you.
But you were washed, you weresanctified, you were justified
in the name of Lord Jesus Christand by the spirit of our God.
So I think it took me a longtime In fact I didn't even have
this revelation until recently.
But I had to realize that thatwas the old me and I was born
(06:04):
that way.
But I was also reborn throughJesus when I was baptized.
So I got to finally say likeI'm leaving behind that part of
me and I don't have to identifyas that anymore.
I don't even have to put myidentity in my sexuality.
Instead, I can finally put itin Jesus alone.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
What makes you think you?
Speaker 3 (06:21):
were born that way.
Yeah, yeah, it's just that.
You can ask anyone in my family.
But I, just from a very youngage, I always um acted very gay,
I guess.
So I don't think it wasnecessarily anything in society
that pushed it on me or as, or,as far as I can remember, it
didn't seem like that.
It's just that's I always likesince I can remember.
(06:42):
It didn't seem like that.
It's just that's I always likesince I can remember always had
an attraction to both men andwomen.
And then as I grew up, I guesspeople just thought I acted more
gay.
So since they already put thatlabel on me, I just kind of went
with it.
And you know, there's the powerof life and death is in the
tongue.
So I would just say that I wasgay and because of that it only
(07:05):
grew.
So how?
Speaker 1 (07:07):
old are you?
Right now, I'm 16.
You're 16.
So this at 12, so as you'rejust entering into puberty, is
where you're experiencingsalvation and you're
experiencing a conflict withyour own soul.
And now, at 16, are you?
How are you operating on adaily basis to kind of to
(07:33):
reinforce your I don't know youryour faith over your sexuality?
Speaker 3 (07:40):
You know I'm I'm honestly still working on it.
If I'm being honest, I juststaying consistent in the word
is very helpful to me.
Music has always been helpful,so I try and stay and listen to
worship music, just reaffirmingmy faith on a daily basis to try
and help.
But also I do do accountabilitywith various people, including
(08:01):
Pablo, my brother-in-law.
Wow, but also I do doaccountability with various
people, including Pablo, mybrother-in-law.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
So we have had many talks and phone calls about just
overall confessing like whatI've been feeling very convicted
about lately, and almost everysingle time I think it has come
up where I'll say yeah, I feltvery lustful this week, or like
(08:28):
I've just very, I've just feltmore inclined to act on
homosexual desires.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
Yeah, so hold on Let me yeah.
I'm going to go ahead and takeover real quick, but I wanted to
circle back a little bit andyou say you acted gay, do you
mean by that?
Or people said you acted gay,so I'm curious because it's
actually something again.
Yeah, yeah so who says thoseare gay traits?
It's kind of what I'm thinkingthrough right now.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
I think guys come in different varieties and just
because the culture flamboyantdude yeah just because the
culture assigns that to beingmore feminine.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
It's the culture, it's not the bible exactly so.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
I definitely think it was just, um, you could say
society.
I could just say it was thekids at my school who made me
feel that way, but I definitelythink it was other kids who
picked up on the way I acted.
It was also, um the friendgroup that I had around me that,
I think, influenced me to actthat way.
Not to blame them, because I'msure I would have acted more
flamboyant, um either way, but Iat the time had not a good
(09:30):
friend group, um not the bestinfluences on me, and they were
um a very like lgbtq communitykind of friendship group and so
I think also surrounding myselfwith them, also made me, made my
traits a little more flamboyant, I guess you could say yeah,
jordan, how for you like?
Speaker 1 (09:48):
one of the things that we talked about with you is
that whenever, uh, when we youknow you've talked about this
over and over, but you're at Ilove what he was saying about
his affirmations or reaffirm onkind of a daily basis, do you
still do like those affirmationsor like, or is that sort of
drifted off over time?
It or is that sort of drifted?
Speaker 4 (10:02):
off.
Over time it's drifted off, butI mean I can still find my
identity in the Bible.
I just don't necessarily saythose affirmations every day
anymore.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
And for someone like you know you're over twice his
age, right, thanks, you know.
So what does that mean?
Like?
What kind of hope can you offerhim about someone who, like it,
hasn't like changed for younecessarily?
(10:33):
But have you found a closenesswith God, or has it just been
like a grind of like?
I'm going to take this by faithand I can't go back because I
know that's God's word.
How do you handle that Jordan?
Speaker 4 (10:44):
I mean there's seasons, right, ups and downs.
It definitely feels like agrind.
I mean, abraham had to wait 80years but at the same time he
also cheated on his wife in thattime period.
So take that with a grain ofsalt.
But yeah, just, it's still.
It's hard.
You know you have to take it byfaith.
Really, I think God can changethat.
(11:07):
It doesn't mean he has toEither way.
It's for his glory and tryingto see it through that lens,
which is obviously a lot easiersaid than done, yeah, but I do
have to leave and I will justsay keep fighting the good fight
.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
That's always been an encouraging thing people have
said to me, so thank you man,yeah, thanks jordan yeah so,
chase, let me, let me talk toyou about this because, like you
said, you were attracted toguys and girls like is that
shifted.
Now are you still attractedgirls?
A little bit are you yeah andso is it something.
Now it's like I'm going toovercome, uh, the I'm going to
(11:44):
kill off in me the attraction tomen in a sexual way and I'm
going to I don't know since feedit, but like I'm going to
cultivate a godly life.
And so how are you?
How do you?
Because there's peoplelistening, they have kids that
are saying that they're gay,they're having kids that are,
that are now 25, that are comingout as gay.
(12:06):
We have a whole trans world ofinsanity and yet you were able
to, even in a gay-affirmingchurch, to hear the words of
your mom and your sister, tothen say to kind of grieve.
You had to go through agrieving process of giving up my
(12:26):
sin for King Jesus.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
And here I mean to me when I hear that.
That is like it reminds me ofthe rich young ruler.
Jesus comes up to the richyoung ruler, or the rich young
ruler comes up, jesus falls onhis knees.
What must I do to be saved?
And he's like you know, youneed to keep all the laws.
Like I've done that.
I've been pretty much awesomemy whole life.
(12:49):
He's like oh, one thing youstill lack go and sell
everything you have, give it tothe poor and then come follow me
.
And I think for you, you kindof went through a process.
I have to give up everything, Ihave to follow Jesus.
And you were able to do that.
And the question I have, likethat, like how were your parent
or how was your mom and sisterable to speak that into your
(13:09):
life in a way that you receivedit not with like, or maybe
you're at first, you're likewhatever, I don't know um, but
how did you respond?
What were the thoughts goingthrough your head?
How did the holy spirit work inyou over this past season?
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Um.
So it was my mom who told mefirst, Um, and I was definitely
just in a state of shock.
I wasn't um, I was just takingin what I was hearing, because
up until this point they myfamily had um, reassured me that
it was okay to have thesedesires, and then my mom kind of
(13:46):
went about that situationsaying that she would always
support me, no matter what.
And but if you are seriousabout your faith, then this is
what the Bible says, and I guessthat came from her own
conviction, also being aChristian.
So then I kind of left thatthere and then I went to go talk
to my sister and mybrother-in-law because they were
(14:08):
, and until this day, some ofthe biggest mentors and
Christian influences on my life,and we had had conversations
where they had also made mebelieve, not in a bad way, that
it was okay to act on thesedesires, even as a Christian.
But we were no offense to them,love them.
(14:30):
I think we were all just in alukewarm state, kind of at the
time being.
So I don't blame them at all forthinking that, because they
were still in their own learningprocess as well.
But then, yeah, I guess I waskind of a little upset about
that because they were just,they were like my best friends
and they were always people thatI trusted more than anything in
(14:52):
the world.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
So I kind of went over to their place and I sat
them down and I had a talk and Iwas like I just I don't know
where this is coming from,because up until this point, um,
I was kind of led to believethat it was all right.
And so I was like what made youfeel all of a sudden that it's
(15:14):
not?
And my sister just kind of keptit real with me, which I
appreciated it a lot.
She was saying it just camefrom reading the word and being
more consistent in the Bible andover time I came to realize
that in the Bible and after,over time, I came to realize
that, um, there's in her um, Idon't know if this is the exact
way I should put it, but there'sno such thing as a gay
Christian.
You're either gay or aChristian and you can't really
(15:36):
they can't really coexist.
And although I was upset atfirst, it took some time and a
lot of prayer.
This was not just um, this wasnot just like God flipping a
light ball, like a light switchin my life, like it took a long
time, in fact.
I don't like I was um, I didn'teven actually admit that I was
(15:58):
ready to let go of the gay partof me until this year, like I
think it was like a month ago, Icame back from retreat and I, I
w, I went to a Christianretreat for my other church and
was the same church thataffirmed your gayness.
And now, yes, but it's wellsorry let me, that's good.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
I mean, I love how God can work the crazy way yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Um, so the youth is run differently than the actual
church.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Oh, that's wild.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Yes, so I have made all my friends in the youth and
the youth pastor aware and theyhave all been utterly supportive
and understanding and agreewith me.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Wow, so the youth is so there's a chance you could
change the direction of anentire church because of your
conviction about what god istelling you, and you could write
the course of so many souls ofthe future as they, as they
start to see the reality thatgod, the holy spirit, is working
in you.
You, you know, you're at a gayaffirming church who then
(16:59):
notices this in you, that theholy spirit is at work, and
they're like huh, here's a guythat we said go for it, you know
, marry a dude.
And then all of a sudden you'relike no, the God's word says
this.
And now you've transformed Idon't want to say give you like
God, through you, hastransformed the youth group and
inevitably that's going to havean effect on the church as a
(17:21):
whole.
Yeah, that's wild.
I mean god willing, yeah, yeah,no, but that that's.
That is an incredible chase.
Like when you think about youknow, like old people everywhere
, um and by old people I meanpeople like you know, over 20,
um, they are like terrified ofthe next generation coming
(17:42):
forward and just saying, oh,that's old, draconian, old stuff
.
We don't live like that anymore.
We need to be free of all therules of this ancient book, and
what you're saying is theancient book has life to you and
it actually is breathing intoyour soul.
And would you say you feel moreconnected to Christ now that
you've kind of validated withScripture, you've aligned with
(18:03):
Scripture?
Do you feel more close toChrist now that you've kind of
validated with Scripture, you'vealigned with Scripture?
Do you feel more close toChrist now?
Speaker 3 (18:09):
For sure.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
And so what is your like?
How do friends at school like,because you're still at like a
normal high school and you'restill dealing with people that
are probably like oh, you'rebetter than us now.
I mean like, how have you dealtwith like the high school drama
, so I'm homeschooled?
Oh, you're better than us now.
I mean like, how have you dealtwith like the high school drama
, so I'm homeschooled?
Oh, okay, got it.
That is definitely All yourclassmates are.
(18:31):
All your classmates, just thinkyou're weird.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
No, so it's online school.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Okay, but I'm sure it's online school.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
All right, so you're not having to deal with that.
It's a Christian online school.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Okay, so the only interaction you've had this is
wild to me, so the onlyinteraction you've had with
other kids is at a church wherethey're gay affirming, and then
you change the culture of it.
Okay, that's powerful.
So talk to me about then.
Like, what's the message thenfor you as you move forward, as
you interact with otherteenagers?
(19:03):
Like do your parents allow youto be on like tiktok or anything
?
Yes, and like how do you like,have you seen anybody with like
your same message?
Speaker 3 (19:14):
um, I personally have not.
I've seen like influencers onsocial media with the same
message, but I personally havenot met anyone right with um the
same experiences that I've gonethrough, or like what I've
dealt with personally.
And um, just to go back alittle, I I was in public school
.
This is my first year doingonline.
Okay, all right, so we justleft.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
uh, what was it?
So?
How long have so you've beenfully, I don't know, jesified in
the past year?
Jesified, I don't knowchristian.
I don't know.
Jesus-ified in the past year,jesus-ified, I don't know
Christian, I don't know.
I'm trying to get full on hereright, like you're going on,
like there's no such thing as agay Christian.
I'm fully in following Jesus.
I'm leaving my old life behind,new life, born again.
(19:57):
That's all happened outside ofpublic school.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Yeah, it was happening while I was in public
school as well.
Yeah, so I was still trying tospread the word, spread the
gospel.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
I was inviting kids to youth every now and then, but
I definitely while in publicschool, I still identified as
gay okay and so for them to findout, now that you are of christ
follower, that you've said noto homosexuality and you are
wanting other people to also sayno to homosexuality, what would
they say to you?
Speaker 3 (20:30):
um, I guess that was always like my biggest fear and
why I was a little nervous, um,or anxious to admit this change
in my life at first, because I,to be to be completely honest, I
don't know if they wouldbelieve me, right, and it also
(20:51):
comes with this fear of pushingpeople farther away from God.
Right, because we live in asociety today where everything's
connected to your emotions andyour feelings and, oh, if I'm
not feeling God, then it can'tbe real.
And eventually I had.
I guess my message to people isthat I had to realize that if
you always substitute your faithfor your feelings, then you're
(21:12):
only going to be a Christianwhen it's convenient for you.
Wow.
And spoken from a 16 year oldyear old and, like I said, I
don't.
I don't claim to, um, I don'tlike to tell people that it's
easy because it wasn't.
This has been a hard foughtbattle, that I've been praying
(21:32):
for over many years and evenuntil this day, I still struggle
with it and, um, I'm stilltrying to find ways.
Like when I said, I try andreaffirm my faith on a daily
basis.
I think everyone should do that, whether you have these desires
or not.
Yeah, and I'm not perfect inthat I forget to read my Bible
all the time, but yeah, Idefinitely think that it is
(21:58):
possible as long as you put youridentity in God.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
So you've kind of so, did you like?
Say hey, I'm now.
I don't know if you said thisI'm now not gay, I'm going to
leave public school, or it waslike public school is just a
dumpster fire.
I'm going to homeschool.
What was the?
Speaker 3 (22:13):
it was more like the second one.
So um.
So last year I had I was juststruggling a lot with my own
personal health and familyissues, so I would go to school
and I could not even focus onthe work.
I was always filled withanxiety and depression and just
(22:34):
struggling with my own mentalhealth, and I was calling my mom
almost every single day to comepick me up.
I just couldn't get throughschool.
So I pushed through the end offreshman year and then over the
summer my parents and I had manydeep conversations and we said,
okay, we've tried public schooland it's just not working out
for me.
(22:54):
Maybe we could try onlineschool.
And since I had already been aChristian at that point, I said
maybe it'd also be better topick an online school that is
Christian based, because thatwould just help me personally
and it definitely has.
The teachers at my onlineschool now are so amazing.
(23:14):
They kind of they try tocombine biblical stories with
our lessons every single day andevery day before class they
pray over us, pray over theclass.
It's just.
I definitely think it's improvedmy faith and my mental health a
lot more.
I definitely do miss theinteraction.
I do think it has had an effecton me being a little less
(23:35):
social.
But then again, I think thatevery kid's different and being
in public school, I just feltlike another kid in the
classroom didn't really feelseen, didn't feel um, like a
priority or really taken care of, and I just wasn't learning.
So I think everyone's different.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Yeah, I think you're really functional here on like,
like.
If you had any, did you have ananxiety before you came on here
?
Speaker 3 (23:58):
for sure all right.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
So, like you're unbelievably functional, you're
able to communicate without,like you know, losing your, your
trained thought, and you knownormal stuff that 16 year olds
do, like I don't know if youknow many 16 year olds, but they
can't form a coherent thought,and so the fact that you're able
to to do that shows that thatyou really have a gift.
Do you think that, um, and andI'm assuming, maybe I'm putting
(24:23):
this on you, I don't want to dothat, but that even like the,
the homosexuality, or likehaving to live up to what other
people's label was for you,inhibited you, or or like you're
trying to perform a little bit?
Was that any part of that?
Or just the, the mere factyou're around a bunch of insane
kids and they're all insane, andit's just so fun to be around
fun people that you're just likeit's hard to pay attention um,
(24:46):
yeah, I definitely think it waslike somewhere in between, where
it definitely was influenced bythe kids.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
I was around, yeah, and that label definitely was
put on me and since in my head Iwas like, well, I am somewhat
attracted to guys, like I guessI'll just go with it.
Um, and like I said earlier, itonly grew from there and yeah
yeah, no that's, that's wild.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
So do you still have any interaction with your old,
like um high school friends onoccasion, but for the most part
you're kind of cut off from themand you're just starting to
focus on you and yourrelationship with God.
And what is your social outoutput?
How do you interact sociallynow?
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Um, mainly through the youth, and then just anytime
, anything social comes up with,like friends from my old school
, if they want to, if they everwant to meet up or we want to go
do something, then I guess,like I'll go do that on occasion
.
Yeah, way to go, I think thatis, in of itself, that's.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
That's a challenge and, uh, holland is now a
homeschool dad and so, um, he'sgonna have to face that same
challenge.
Any thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (25:56):
on we got we got four kids and they're they're all
younger though, so my oldest is,uh, he'll be 11 this summer, so
we're not in the, like you know, high school teenager phase yet
, but a couple of years we'll bethere and, yeah, I think
they're.
A lot of their friendships andsocial stuff happens through
church, through sports, throughplaying with neighborhood kids
and stuff like that.
Um, and uh, I, I, I love, I,thank God for church friendships
(26:22):
and being able to havecommunity with other people who
know the Lord and are beingraised to.
You know, love the Lord.
Because your you know book ofProverbs says you walk with the
wise, you become wise.
And when you're walking withother families who are, as
opposed to walking with peoplewho are following whatever the
world says is right, walk youknow, walk in in the ways of you
(26:43):
know, whatever's popular inculture lead you off a cliff.
Um, and so the blessing ofbeing able to have you know like
a youth group or um communitythrough a Christian uh, it's all
online.
There's nothing like local inperson that y'all do together.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
No, um, I guess it depends on where you are, cause
I do know that in some places,like I, have a bunch of online
friends in california where theyall have a certain place where
they go meet up to do schooltogether yeah, that's cool, so
it does depend on where you are.
There's just not a lot of kidson the.
It's an international school,so there's gotcha.
There's kids all around the us.
(27:19):
There's people like from britainyeah but um, yeah, there's not
a whole lot of kids who do ithere in texas, and the kids who
do do it here in texas are a lotmore south I got you.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yeah, we're starting something up in the fall where
it's like once a week on mondaysthere's like a co-op type thing
with you know their familiesand stuff, and so I think, man,
homeschool is a blessing.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
You should come up here once a week and just hang
out with us.
Yeah, I should, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Also well, I was going to say one more thing
Earlier you were talking about.
You know your old friends andyou know feeling like you don't
want to push people away fromGod.
And like I think that'ssomething anyone listening who's
wanted to share their faith canresonate with in you know, not
just about this particular issue, but just about that fear.
(28:05):
But, man, I think of like ittakes a lot of courage basically
to try to talk to others aboutthe faith, knowing that they
might push away from you ormight push away from church even
.
I think about the courage ofyou know your mom and your
sister, and you know there'sprobably probably some of that
fear in you know, with talkingto you about this, and of you
know your mom and your sister,and you know there's probably
some of that fear in you knowwith talking to you about this,
(28:27):
but you know to find the courageto have those conversations
with you to the point where nowyou would say like, wow, man, it
opened my eyes and I see thingsdifferently now and I feel
closer to Christ.
And I think there's so muchencouragement to be found in
that that some people willreject you and will, you know,
separate themselves.
If you try to reach out to themwith the word but other people,
you could change your lifeforever.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
And so just remembering.
Yeah, I think that's what'sreally cool, jesus.
You know, when Jesus met with arich young ruler, the man
walked away sad and he did theexact right thing.
And the guy walked away sad.
And so it might be that someoneneeds to walk away sad, as even
(29:12):
you, yeah, walked away sad, butthen that's what's generated
the holy spirit's work in you togrieve the loss of sexuality so
that you could gain Christ.
And that you know, we don'tknow the end of the story for
the rich young ruler.
All we know is that he walkedaway sad then, and so who knows
ultimately what happened withhim?
(29:32):
But Jesus loved him and thenloved him enough to tell him the
truth about what was wrong withhis soul.
And I think that's the struggle,and I think this is where you,
as a Gen Z-er, are expressingthe fear of I don't want to
offend, and in fact it is theoffense that brought you to
(29:52):
salvation of recognizing, if I'mgoing to be serious about God,
then this part of my life can'tbe a part of my life, and god
calls me to something greaterbeyond sexuality, because even
like a heterosexual person, uh,if they folk, if they're so
focused on sex, they're just asguilty and wicked as a
(30:14):
homosexual in terms of they arein sin with their lust.
It just is probably scatteredamong eight gazillion images of
porn, and so the thing I wantyou to see is that that person's
repentance might look a littlebit different, but the whole
point is that they're having tosay no to a sexuality that is
(30:34):
not godly and say yes tofollowing after Jesus.
That's hard to do, and so Ithink what our young men,
especially across the country,need is like a man like you,
chase, who is 16 and says I'mwilling to do hard things.
I'm not merely going to do whatfeels convenient, which I
(30:54):
really loved.
You're a Christian inconvenience, so stop stealing
the label.
I love that.
But like, if we need to movefrom convenient Christianity
that adopts to however we'refeeling at the time, we get all
the comfort of Christ but noneof the king-ordained rebuke, and
I think that kids wouldgravitate to, they'd rise to
(31:16):
that, because there is somethinggreat and a great and high
calling to live for somethinggreater than yourself, and our
entire culture has been builtaround.
It's about you feeling good.
Feel a little better, feel alittle better, and I think what
we've realized that makes usmentally depressed.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yeah, it's like the worst thing, like there's a
version of you know, a a shellof Christianity that takes the
name of Christianity, but theworst thing that could ever
happen is someone walking awaysad.
You just want to approve of andaffirm everything and yet when
you look at Jesus in the Bible,people walked away sad sometimes
(31:54):
, and I think that is the—soeven you know what you're
talking about is like the desire.
There's a whole brand or branchof you know people claiming to
be Christian or who areChristian, but are saying that
as long as you're not acting onit, that's fine.
The desire itself isn't sinful.
(32:15):
Because you know, and sayingthat, you know, it's that same
impulse to try to just like Ijust don't want to offend anyone
, I want to affirm people.
It's that same impulse to tryto just like I just don't want
to offend anyone, I want toaffirm people, whereas you know,
the Bible is very clear we'renot.
It's not just our actions, it isour desires, our hearts, even,
and so even what Chris wassaying earlier, the reality, all
of us have disordered desiresand the Bible doesn't say
(32:38):
there's like two differenthomosexual, heterosexual, is not
, you know, like two differenttypes of people in the Bible.
There's one type of person,human being, and all of us have
disordered desires in a bunch ofdifferent ways, and even if we
don't act on those desires, thedesires themselves are sinful.
And the way to freedom is notby telling someone, hey, your
(32:59):
desires are fine, it's no bigdeal, but rather us learning to
confess our desires, bring ourdesires to God and even receive
you know, receive his grace andhis healing and his forgiveness,
even for the things that wedon't act on but still desire in
our hearts.
And so I feel like that's alevel of, you know, the
Christian message that peopleare unwilling to say because we
(33:22):
don't want to offend anyone andwhat we're doing is we're, we're
, you know, um, holding, holdingout on them.
Experiencing real freedom atthe level of your heart, not
just your actions, does thatmake sense.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Yeah, what's the next step for you, chase?
Like as you're looking at yourlife as you're, you know you're
16, you're two years away awayfrom graduating, which I know,
at 16 feels like forever, butit's going to come like that, um
, in two years.
What's the plan?
Is there any calling ofministry on your life?
Is there a desire to go in,like I don't know?
(33:54):
Uh, you want to be an engineer,you want to be a graphic artist
?
Like what, where are you going?
If you were to kind of say,like, the direction, your, your
life is what?
Speaker 3 (34:04):
I really don't know.
My, my, my calling has goneeverywhere.
I've, um, I've wanted to be anartist.
I've wanted to be, um, I, Iused to be in musical theater,
so I always thought about, like,maybe doing theater when I'm
older, um, I have been called toministry, or I felt a calling
to ministry and I do think thatit would be really cool to do it
.
Um, and yeah, I think I'mreally open to anything.
(34:27):
The reason that I'm open todoing anything is because I've
heard too many stories of peoplewho were saying like, oh, I
went to college so sure that Iwanted to do this, and then the
minute I graduated, god saidNope, you're, you're going into
ministry or doing something likethat.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
And then you spent $200,000 on nothing yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
I'm with you.
That was my story.
Yeah, and my story as well.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
But thankfully government paid for mine.
So yeah, I think that's what'shard about it.
Tell me about your view ofcollege.
I'd love to hear the16-year-old view of college,
because most old people like usjust think it's trash now.
So, tell me about what's yourview as a 16 year old looking at
college.
What do you think?
Speaker 3 (35:05):
I really don't know.
I haven't started looking atcolleges yet.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
From a 16 year old perspective, where you you know,
you don't know anything aboutanything.
You're just like college.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
Yeah, I was always taught that it's good to go to
college because it makes iteasier to get a job, for some
reason.
Right, that was the olden days.
Yeah, I definitely think thatcollege can be a very important
aspect of your life, becauseI've heard a lot of testimonies
where people's lives did getchanged at college because they
(35:34):
had good ministry.
But it's different for everyone, because I also know that there
are some colleges out there whohave some very philosophical
teachers who like to speak outagainst Christianity.
So it's very hard, because I doknow that colleges have a
little bit of everything.
But for me personally, I justthink that, were I to go to
(36:00):
college which I probably will,that were I to go to college
which I probably will as long asI immediately try my best to
find a good Christian communityto help keep me accountable and
help keep me on the straight andnarrow path.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Pretty much what you're saying is you want to go
to Texas A&M, that's good, oh,okay.
Yeah, I didn't go to Texas A&M,but it's really good.
They are really good.
Every Texas A&M person I've metbecame a Christian there and
they loved it and they lovedJesus.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
So, that's where you go.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Don't go to UT.
That's a dangerous place ofdarkness, Although you know,
maybe you're the light in thedark there.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
I don't think I have the grades to get in there
anyways.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Yeah, well, yeah, that's a good point.
So Rice is out, Okay, yeah, butI think so honestly, though.
But when you're looking atministry, if ministry is the
calling, I would, you know, alittle undergrad in Bible never
hurt anybody.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
Yeah, I definitely, if any ministry.
I'd love to become a youthpastor someday.
I have so much love and respectfor my youth pastor right now.
And um, and yeah, I definitelyI know what it's like to be a
teenager who either feels likeunseen or unheard, and even some
teenagers who have been savedbut then feel like they're too
(37:18):
young to lead, and I just just Iwant to be someone who can be
there for them, to relate tothem in their highest and lowest
moments well, way to go.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
I am really encouraged by that.
Um, wow, all right.
And back to any.
Any experiences growing up thatwere like, because usually
people say like well, the fatherwasn't present, or uh, there
was some traumatic sexual eventthat happened that like turned
you gay, but you didn't have anyof those experiences.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
Um, should I talk about it, oh?
Speaker 1 (37:54):
well, that's up to you are you okay with?
Speaker 3 (37:57):
it your story um, yeah, your story, yeah, sorry,
yeah.
So I won't get too deep into itbecause it takes so much longer
and there's so many details toit.
But I was talking earlier abouthow I struggled a lot with my
(38:23):
mental health last year.
Speaker 4 (38:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
Well, basically, I went to a Christian retreat last
year and there was a messageabout walls that need to be
broken down in your life andmaking yourself feel ashamed
because of things that you havegone through and keeping it a
secret.
Good, and I had just never feltcloser to God than I did on
that retreat.
So I I.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
This was the most recent one.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
This was the most recent one, okay, so I grabbed
one of my best friends.
Oh, sorry, sorry my old one, myold one, um, sorry, my old one
to like the old church.
Yes, the old church.
I still go to that church asyouth.
I just needed to get it off mychest so I grabbed um one of my
(39:20):
best friends and I grabbed myyouth pastor and I said I said,
hey guys, I've never actuallysaid this or told anyone in my
whole life, but I've beensexually abused by one of my
cousins since I was like fiveyears old and I've never told
anyone about it and he is a guy.
So I do feel like that didinfluence a lot of.
(39:43):
I do think that influenced alot of aspects of my life and
probably why I was just talkingto my sister and my mom about
this, that that could be a verybig factor as to why I had a lot
of gay desires growing up,because all I had ever known was
(40:04):
another guy or another man andit was a man or a same age, kid
it was the same age kid, Okay,which also made it so much
harder to admit because Icouldn't like.
It was hard for me and Icouldn't imagine the amount of
(40:24):
change and impact I was about tohave on this on my cousin's
life.
It was a family member Because,but as horrible as I felt for
him, I kind of had to put my ownfaith first and put myself
first and say I'm not going tolet this sin or shame hold me
(40:47):
down anymore and I need to tellsomeone, because if I don't, I
don't know if it's ever going tostop.
And this was after I had becomea Christian.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Wow, so you felt freedom through confession.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
Yes, well, that's powerful.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
That's wild.
Thanks for sharing.
I know that was.
I was not expecting that to gothat direction Like that's wild,
the freedom that God has givenyou through that which is, I
think, chase, if I can be boldhere, there is a lot of people
probably listening and they areholding on to shame like that.
We had a couple on here.
(41:23):
It's actually our most listenedto podcast, the Websters, and
they shared about how Stephenwent through so much as a kid of
the same sort of situation andthen struggled with porn as an
adult, and it was powerful howthe Lord really brought that to
(41:46):
the forefront and the power thatthat has had ever since.
And so what happens?
When guys lock that away, itaffects their marriages.
Even when you're like I'mrepentant, I'm not going to do
that, and when you have thatlurking in your heart it is just
to your point, your mentalhealth.
Man, I'm so grateful for thatfreedom.
Speaker 5 (42:06):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Man, way to go.
That is powerful that youshared it, but I think, more
than that, I need you to knowthat there are 16-year-olds all
over the place that haveexperienced something similar
and they were hoping thatsomeone had a situation like
them that they could share itwith, and so that becomes a
really, really big deal.
And so you've become anadvocate for people that are
stuck in darkness.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Way to go.
Yeah, and Jesus is the forgiverof our sins and he's also the
healer of our hearts and thepain that we have, the guilt,
the shame, the confusion.
Like Jesus is just so good inthat you know he sees everything
about our lives and find restfor your soul, come to me and
find healing for your heart,come to me, find forgiveness for
(42:55):
your sins, come to me, findpurpose for your life.
And so just all of it is foundin Jesus.
And it's so amazing when Jesusfinds us.
Speaker 4 (43:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
And our lostness.
He comes and, rescues us, givesus new life.
It was actually such an amazing, not amazing.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
It was actually such an amazing, not amazing.
It was just a really awakeningand healing season because last
year, after making thatconfession, my family was so
supportive, so loving, and theymade me feel so protected.
Speaker 4 (43:26):
That's so awesome.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
They took care of it immediately.
So last year was my first timeever confessing it and then
after that, going intohomeschool and seeing all this
chaos that was going on betweenmy family, um, because of this
one thing that happened in mylife, I just felt like my life
(43:48):
was completely um ended, yeah,kind of like gone to ruin.
Which was so funny because whenI went to retreat again this
year, the um, the whole themecame from a verse from Isaiah 64
.
I don't know the exact verse,but it was something.
Isaiah 64, god will rebuild youfrom your ruins and raise up
generations.
And it was all about how, ifyou feel like you're down and
(44:10):
ruined right now, god will notonly rebuild you from that, but
he will sorry, he will rebuildyou even stronger and better,
and he will.
That is awesome.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
That is awesome.
That's powerful man, isn't itcrazy, like I?
Just like I think about youknow whoever the pastor was that
planned that retreat and thatmessage and that theme, you know
had no idea what was going onand you know there's probably
like all these other people whofelt like that was just for me.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
Yeah, there were like 500 kids there or over actually
, and I just couldn't imaginehow much that message had spoken
to all those kids Awesome, thatis so awesome.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
All those kids Awesome, that is so awesome.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
That's powerful man Way to go, Wow.
So the Lord is really redeemingyour life, bringing up all
because, again, it's truly ablessing to have all that stuff
come out, have your family sosupportive.
That's why I'm very blessed.
When you're 16, you have family,you just assume everyone's like
that or you can't imagine afamily not like that you have
(45:12):
family you just assumeeveryone's like that, or you
can't imagine a family not likethat, but just from a person
that has ministered to a lot ofdifferent um people in different
sets like you don't hear aboutone like, uh, the conviction to
confront you in homosexuality,one.
And then the ability for you toconfess, uh, something deeply
shameful from your five-year-oldpast that you probably kept
(45:34):
buried in your soul for so long,where you're feeling like you
have a billion pounds in yourchest and then walk you through
that even explodes the family asa whole.
That's wild.
I really want to just honorthat aspect of your family for
really sticking by you, for youto being so fully devoted to
Jesus and living for Christ whenthe whole world would be bro
(46:00):
that what you're saying isoffensive.
Wow, that's powerful.
So I think the direction I wantto kind of just take us is like
back to the generation.
I just feel like you have amessage for so many 16-year-olds
and probably you know I haveprobably three 16-year-olds
(46:21):
listening to this podcast, butthere's a lot more parents that
are listening, and so whatyou've just shared is going to
open up the doorway for them.
So let's just talk through howdid your parents approach you
and maybe and maybe it was yoursister as well.
But how did they approach youto confront you in homosexuality
Like?
I know that this seems like Ijust told you.
(46:41):
No, no, give me the cause.
I think people are like I needto know what to say, how to you
know how to do, because theyweren't parented yeah and so, um
, how did your, maybe with yourmom, how did your mom build
(47:03):
relationship with you enough sothat she could confront you on
the very thing that at one pointshe was like, yeah, go for it.
And then now is like justkidding, like that, because
that's a huge shift yeah, um.
Speaker 3 (47:17):
So a big regret of mine um was that I never
actually talked about it with mydad, which I was um had so much
does he still not know, no, he,we've had many conversations
about it since that'd be reallyweird.
But hey, dad looks at thispodcast it was just that one
conversation that never happenedwhere, like, it was just my mom
who told me about like, um, youshouldn't be acting on these
desires which I had so muchunderstanding for, because I do
(47:39):
realize that that could be anawkward situation, especially
for a dad and a son to have,sure, um, so it was really just
my mom who had that conversationwith me, and yeah, I think it
was.
It was um, it was just like avery hard day, cause I had also
just gotten my braces on.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
So um yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
And my face was in so much pain.
Speaker 3 (47:58):
And then my mom was like, oh, do you want to go to
lunch to get like a milkshake?
And I was like I was like okay,and we went and sat down and we
kind of just got straight tothe point where my mom kind of,
is your mom a straight to thepoint person, the point where my
mom kind of.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
Is your mom a straight to the point person?
Speaker 3 (48:15):
yes, I, I think so, um, so like, how's your
milkshake cool?
All right, let's talk aboutfirst corinthians six, nine um,
I love that and she, my mom.
She's actually here um.
My mom is such a very kind andunderstanding person and let's
bring mom.
Speaker 1 (48:29):
Can you come on?
Would you mind coming on?
We need to hear this.
Speaker 3 (48:32):
This is important she definitely has a way of um
putting things and talking thatdoes have your own mic yeah, the
full table.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
You have to introduce your mom chase.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
Oh hi, this is my mom .
Her name is Shannon.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
Hello, All right.
So Shannon, so you, he gets hisbraces on.
You're like you know, this isthe right time this is the right
time.
Speaker 5 (48:59):
Well, we kind of had a thing where, first of all,
Chase is one of five.
So, it's hard to getindividualized one-on-one time
with my children.
So when he got his braces onand his mouth was sore, what's
better than taking him for amilkshake?
Speaker 1 (49:17):
Right, that's a win.
Love it.
Speaker 5 (49:18):
Yes, and the thought like it wasn't like a
premeditated hey, we're going tohave this conversation.
It was just.
Chase is a deep thinker and helikes to have conversations and
I can't remember what evenstarted the conversation.
But there was a moment withinthe conversation that I felt
(49:43):
like I needed to let him knowthat through my deepening of
faith, I had led him astray.
It was unintentional, becauseyou know, when you know better,
(50:03):
you do better, but I was nowaware that Chase has always, to
my knowledge, wanted a deepfaith and to walk with Jesus
always to my knowledge, wanted adeep faith and to walk with
Jesus.
And knowing that, as hard asthis conversation was going to
be, I had to have it.
I knew it meant he was probablygoing to be mad at me, but
(50:29):
Chase and I have had a lot oftough conversations and we've
both gotten upset at each other,but it was always for his best
interest.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
So Shannon, like how old was he at that, was that,
how old Was I?
13?
Speaker 5 (50:42):
I think 14, 14.
Speaker 3 (50:44):
So he's 14.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
You're taking your 14 year old for a milkshake You're
sitting down across from andyou say, hey, I've led you
astray.
And then is he sort of likewhat was his?
Can you remember his face?
What did it look like?
Speaker 5 (51:00):
Disappointment, yeah, yeah, hurt, and I wasn't even
sure if the words that I wassaying to him were really
resonating or if he was actuallydigesting them.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (51:13):
And that was okay.
I knew this was going to be thefirst conversation of.
I was hoping prayerful that itwas going to be the first
conversation of many.
Yeah, but part of my growth andmy growth in my parenting is to
allow my kids to, to, to hearwhen I've made a mistake, to
acknowledge that there is noperfect parent.
(51:34):
Way to go, and this wassomething I needed him to know
that I had been teaching himincorrectly.
Speaker 3 (51:42):
Yeah, wow, I remember definitely being in a state of
shock.
I wasn't necessarily angry orsad, I just didn't know what to
be, and I do thinkdisappointment was probably the
right way to put it is I was alittle bit disappointed, um, but
I guess what made me, um, whatmade me realize that this was
(52:03):
the truth that I was hearingover time, was that my mom has
been always the biggestsupporter, not just of me, but
of all my siblings and I, andshe's always only one of the
best for us, and she is aChristian herself and she does.
She does have a gay brother.
She did grow up with a similarsituation and he is.
My uncle is currently stillliving in a gay marriage.
(52:25):
Um, so I was like, so it tookme some time, but over some deep
thought and some grace andunderstanding, I was like, wow,
my mom, she cares for me.
So she wouldn't have actuallytold me this unless she thought
it was actually true, and Ithink that awakened something in
me.
Speaker 1 (52:45):
This is wild.
This is the craziest.
I mean, like I was notexpecting to have this
conversation right here.
This is so great.
So, shannon, you said, hey,I've led you astray.
Being gay is not okay.
Like how did you?
I mean, how did you bring that?
I mean, I think this what I'mtrying to get is like so it was
through tears, yeah, like you'rejust crying and like I love you
.
Speaker 5 (53:04):
And I told him that this is his walk, this is his
life, this is his walk with theLord as his mother.
I will love him no matter what,but I care about his salvation.
(53:24):
And so he needed to know thatin order to be closer with God,
to get into the kingdom ofheaven.
You cannot live this type oflifestyle.
Speaker 3 (53:28):
Wow, oh, I think what brought this up is that I think
I said something about thisearlier, but we were talking
about me getting baptized andbeing fully committed to God, so
I think that's what it was isthat we were talking about
getting baptized, and she waslike before you get baptized, we
got to have this conversation,wow, shannon.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
Way to go man, that's amazing, thank you.
That like brings tears to myeyes.
I can't even believe it.
I'm not imagining how hard thatmust have been, the amount of
conviction you must have feltand then being able to
communicate it and just notknowing if that would explode
everything, or if it wouldresult in this, which is wild,
(54:05):
so way to go.
That is like, if you want it youknow we're going to have next
show is all about parenting andShannon's going to teach us how
to do it, because that'spowerful, I think.
I think sometimes we can justmiss on, like, as a parent, you
know you love your kids so much,so much they don't even even
come close to understanding,cause how can they?
Right, they don't know.
But like this is like yourwhole.
(54:26):
You're like you do anything.
And then, if you've led someoneastray, especially someone you
love, and like now you're likeah, let me walk that back super
hard, okay, so you do that, didyou?
Do you then come back to herchase?
Do you go like hey, I want torevisit that.
Or that's when you went to yoursister no, that's when I went
to my sister.
Speaker 3 (54:46):
We never really revisit.
Revisited that afterwards.
Yeah, I like immediate, oh Ithink it was that same night
where I texted my sister and Iwas like, hey, can I come?
Because they live separatelyfrom us, they had their own
apartment and back at that timeI would sleep over almost like
every other weekend we were.
We were very close, um, andstill are till this day, um.
But yeah, I texted her almostimmediately saying, hey, would
(55:07):
it be all right if I came andslept over at your guys' place
this weekend?
They said, yeah, all good.
And because my mom had made meaware that, I think my sister
told my mom first about this andthen my mom told me.
Speaker 5 (55:21):
It's a family affair.
Speaker 3 (55:23):
What.
Speaker 5 (55:24):
I said it's a family affair.
Speaker 3 (55:25):
It was something that my whole family was a part of.
So then I kind of went over tomy sister and I was like was a
part of um.
So then I kind of went over tomy sister and I was like what,
um, what really made you came tothe conclusion that this
conversation had to be had, orthat I had to be made aware of
this, or why this even came up?
Speaker 1 (55:46):
and then they, and then she just jumps in, just
yeah, like hey, we love you andyeah, she's grown in their walk.
Speaker 3 (55:51):
Yeah, she was kind of just reiterating.
What my mom was saying is thatof course she'll love me no
matter what.
But to truly commit to yourfaith takes sacrifice and
surrender.
Amen.
Wow, this was something that Icould not pursue anymore if I
wanted to walk with Jesus.
(56:11):
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (56:12):
Hey, that's wild, all right, so it's so awesome.
Speaker 2 (56:15):
I'm just like in awe of God and and like I mean
literally like this is as apastor.
You know this is a an issue, asituation, a question that comes
up, you know, fairly often andthere's so much fear surrounding
this of like I don't want to.
(56:35):
You know, I don't want to pushanyone, I don't want to offend
anyone, I don't want to, andthen here we are just hearing
how God is working in, like yourwhole family in such a powerful
way.
That is not, you know.
It's.
That is love and grace andtruth all wrapped together.
That is love, and grace andtruth all wrapped together and
you know it's not a cheap gracethat's like, oh, sin's not that
(56:56):
bad.
And it's not a harsh truth oflike I'll only love you if you
change.
And you know it is grace andtruth.
I love you no matter what, butyou need to know the truth and
this is what God's word says,and it is just so powerful and
awesome.
Speaker 5 (57:18):
Like man, my conversation Well before I had
the conversation with Chase, itwas a conversation from Bree
that she had with me.
That was a real conversationwhere I mean she helped me
realize that the conversationneeded to be had.
Speaker 1 (57:29):
Wow, wow, all right, so Brie is what number child?
She's my oldest.
Speaker 3 (57:36):
She's the oldest.
Speaker 5 (57:37):
And you're number.
Speaker 1 (57:38):
I'm four, number four .
Speaker 3 (57:40):
Okay, wow, Wow, but at the time I do think love all
my siblings equally.
But I do think that Brie and Iat the time were the closest
because I was the most investedwe were still going to the
Catholic church at the time werethe closest because I was the
most invested we were stillgoing to the Catholic church at
the time, I believe, or maybe wehad already left, but we had
just left the Catholic churchand I was, and Bree and Pablo
(58:01):
were the only ones going totheir own church, separate from
us.
Yeah, and I was just veryinvested with the church that
they were going to at the timeand more and only grew more
curious and um, I actually it'sfunny I just had a phone call
with Brie a couple of days agowhere I was saying that at the
time she was just, she wasalways my closest friend, she
(58:23):
was someone that I trusted morethan anyone in the world and I
guess that was one of thebiggest reasons why it hurt
hearing this come from her, butit was also what made me so
comfortable going over and justasking and putting it plainly.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (58:41):
So man love that, all right.
So then, what made you want tocome on the podcast?
Like you know, cause we haveyou might be the only other 16
year old listener on our massiveaudience worldwide, but what
made you say I want to get onthe podcast to share?
Speaker 3 (58:56):
that Brie invited me.
Oh, you're right, I forgotabout that.
I forgot about that.
So my bad.
I think it was maybe two yearsago.
I actually did talk aboutstarting my own podcast because
I thought it'd just be cool, andI have talked about getting
more involved and wanting toshare my testimony and faith in
(59:20):
front of other kids.
But I am someone who does havea bit of stage fright.
I do get nervous talking infront of like other people or
even just being on stage ingeneral.
So I did.
I think it was like two yearsago.
I was so sure that I was goingto start my own podcast and I
just thought being behind acamera would make me so much
more comfortable.
And then I don't know what itwas.
I guess over time I just kindof forgot about it and never
(59:41):
actually pursued it.
And then and then here we are,yeah.
Speaker 1 (59:44):
Yeah, okay Well, you heard it here first.
Uh, the chase food podcastcoming soon, uh no promises
Wherever you listen to yourpodcast.
It's going to be talking aboutbeing a teenager, interactions
of sexuality and faith, and theculture and how to overcome the
darkness.
Speaker 3 (01:00:02):
Is that where we're going?
Sure, I love it.
Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
Well, man, listen, if you have any questions out
there in podcast land and youwould like to have Chase come
back and maybe answer all ofthem.
If you have any questions forparenting from Shannon, who's
going to tell you how to do it,we'd love to answer those.
You can just text us at737-231-0605 or go to
PastorPleckcom and leave amessage for us there.
We would love to hear from you.
(01:00:25):
Any final thoughts, holland?
Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
Man.
I just want to one say like Godbless you guys.
Thank you and Bree, way to go,way to go.
Older sister, sweet daughter,shannon, like as a mom having
that hard conversation and Chase, just like the courage to not
only just like I don't know, goall in on Jesus and then be able
(01:00:51):
to share it.
I'm just like blown away byy'all's family and just want to
say God bless y'all.
They are encouragement to me,thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
Anything else.
You want to wrap us up withShannon?
You got anything?
Final thoughts.
Speaker 5 (01:01:01):
Uh, I just want Chase to know how proud I am.
Thank you, sharing your story,sharing your testimony, walking
the path that you're on,powerful.
You are a tool, and I'm just soexcited to see how God uses you
.
Speaker 4 (01:01:19):
I remember when a tool was a bad word.
Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
Sorry.
Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
In the hand of the Lord, a tool for God, you're a
tool.
On that note, have an awesomeweek of worship.
Speaker 4 (01:01:39):
You're not that kind of tool, love being a tool for
the Lord.
Speaker 3 (01:01:43):
That's good.
I definitely think that withpatience and perseverance,
anything is possible, as long asyou don't limit God's power
because I think that was a bigfactor to why everything took so
long in my life is I just keptlimiting God's power and kept
saying, oh, this will neverhappen in my life.
And then here I am and itdefinitely has, and just God
(01:02:08):
really can turn everythingaround.
Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
That he can, and so, from our house to yours, let him
turn it around.
Have an awesome week of worship.
and welcome back to pastor plex podcast.
I am your host, pastor plec,and join me in studios none
other than pastor holland greg.
Welcome back, holland, thankyou so much.
Thank you, and also uh, withthis is jordan smith, a regular
guest around here, and then newto pastor plex podcast is none
other than chase Vu.
(00:25):
Welcome, chase.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
I'm so glad you're here.
So what are we talking about,Chase?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
So we're going to be talking about my own journey
with struggling with homosexualdesires.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
All right, let's talk about it.
And Jordan I brought him onbecause he is a person who also
struggles with same-sexattraction and he has been
wrestling and wrestling foryears on this one, and I would
love to hear you guys interact alittle bit, so talk to us.
First off, how long have youbeen a Christian?
What's your journey to thispoint?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
been.
So I personally have been aChristian for about four years
now, Ben.
So I personally have been aChristian for about four years
now and even after I was saved Iwas still under the impression
that it was okay to havehomosexual desires and act on
them.
Because I was at a gayaffirming church and I was kind
of taught that, you know, ourGod is a graceful God, a
(01:24):
forgiving God, and as long asyou love who you love, there's
not going to be any judgment forthat.
Basically, and that was thementality that I had for I'd say
, probably two years ago, um,when I got very serious in my
faith, um, my, both my sisterand my mom had told me about I
(01:50):
think it's first Corinthians sixnine, where it's talking about
um, people who act on homosexualdesires will not inherit the
kingdom of heaven.
And that was kind of anawakening for me, because I had
really wanted to get baptized atthe time, yeah, but I did not
want to get baptized.
I didn't want to get baptizedwhile still acting on homosexual
(02:13):
desires.
I didn't.
When I got baptized, I wanted tobe sure that I was ready to
fully commit to my relationshipwith God.
Okay, so I was like I'm notgoing to get baptized until I'm
100% sure that I'm ready to giveup that part of my life.
And it took a long time.
I waited a whole year and I waspraying about it and even after
(02:35):
I got baptized I stillstruggled with it.
But I which I think people withthose kinds of struggles might
struggle with them the rest ofyour life perhaps people with
those kind of struggles mightstruggle with them the rest of
your life perhaps.
But um, yeah, I definitely gotto a point where I decided I
need to put god first in my life.
So how did you like.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
so it was your mom and sister who, like, showed you
first corinthians 6, or are youreading on your own?
I mean, what was the thing likewhere you're at a gay affirming
church, you get saved there,right?
So like they talk about Jesusdied on the cross for your sins,
rose from the dead.
And then you're like cool.
And they're like, oh, by theway, if you are a homosexual, go
(03:17):
for it, we support that.
And then you shifted from that.
How'd you get to that church inthe first place?
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Hold on so can I talk real quick.
I don't have a lot of time here, so I will say Chase that verse
.
The thing that's helpful for meis also it talks about drunks
won't inherit the kingdom of Godand all these other sins.
People like to use that as likethe gay bashing verse, but
they're probably self-deceivedin a lot of ways and should
check themselves.
But verse, but they're probablyself-deceived in a lot of ways
(03:47):
and should check themselves.
But yeah, I'm also interesteddid you seek out a gay affirming
church or how'd you get?
Speaker 3 (03:49):
plugged in there.
No, so it was Brie and Pablo'schurch at the time and it goes
into like the my actualtestimony and deeper into that.
But Brie and Pablo had invitedme to go to that church and they
weren't aware that it was a gayaffirming church at the time, I
think.
But yeah, it's not necessarilythat they like openly talked
(04:13):
about the fact that theysupported it, they just also
didn't talk against it, right,and they would like baptize gay
couples together.
And that's kind of how I wentthere and I didn't really think
anything of it.
Um, because, as their teachingsat the time, they have improved
(04:34):
, I do still attend the churchon occasion, um, but at the time
they're teaching improved, likethey've shifted more concert,
like to say, like that's notokay now, or um, I think the
pastors of that specific churchhave okay.
However, they're part of a likea bigger branch of churches so,
like the head um pastor, I don'tthink allows them to really
(04:55):
talk about it wow well that'swild yeah yeah, had you read
those verses before any versethat was saying homosexuality is
a sin, acting on it at least.
Yeah.
So just to clarify, after mymom and sister had told me that
if you do want to be seriousabout your faith, you can't
really act on gay desires, I hadwent home and I know it sounds
(05:17):
silly, but I was kind of readingthrough my Bible because I was
really having a hard timeaccepting it and I was trying to
.
I was trying to look for like aloophole, almost like something
to justify my sin, and I wasreally just trying to find a
second way.
And then I found firstCorinthians, six, nine through
10.
And I was so utterly focused onhow it said you shall not
inherit the kingdom of heaven,and it just completely broke me.
(05:40):
But then, but then I foundverse 11 and it says and such
were some of you.
But you were washed, you weresanctified, you were justified
in the name of Lord Jesus Christand by the spirit of our God.
So I think it took me a longtime In fact I didn't even have
this revelation until recently.
But I had to realize that thatwas the old me and I was born
(06:04):
that way.
But I was also reborn throughJesus when I was baptized.
So I got to finally say likeI'm leaving behind that part of
me and I don't have to identifyas that anymore.
I don't even have to put myidentity in my sexuality.
Instead, I can finally put itin Jesus alone.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
What makes you think you?
Speaker 3 (06:21):
were born that way.
Yeah, yeah, it's just that.
You can ask anyone in my family.
But I, just from a very youngage, I always um acted very gay,
I guess.
So I don't think it wasnecessarily anything in society
that pushed it on me or as, or,as far as I can remember, it
didn't seem like that.
It's just that's I always likesince I can remember.
(06:42):
It didn't seem like that.
It's just that's I always likesince I can remember always had
an attraction to both men andwomen.
And then as I grew up, I guesspeople just thought I acted more
gay.
So since they already put thatlabel on me, I just kind of went
with it.
And you know, there's the powerof life and death is in the
tongue.
So I would just say that I wasgay and because of that it only
(07:05):
grew.
So how?
Speaker 1 (07:07):
old are you?
Right now, I'm 16.
You're 16.
So this at 12, so as you'rejust entering into puberty, is
where you're experiencingsalvation and you're
experiencing a conflict withyour own soul.
And now, at 16, are you?
How are you operating on adaily basis to kind of to
(07:33):
reinforce your I don't know youryour faith over your sexuality?
Speaker 3 (07:40):
You know I'm I'm honestly still working on it.
If I'm being honest, I juststaying consistent in the word
is very helpful to me.
Music has always been helpful,so I try and stay and listen to
worship music, just reaffirmingmy faith on a daily basis to try
and help.
But also I do do accountabilitywith various people, including
(08:01):
Pablo, my brother-in-law.
Wow, but also I do doaccountability with various
people, including Pablo, mybrother-in-law.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
So we have had many talks and phone calls about just
overall confessing like whatI've been feeling very convicted
about lately, and almost everysingle time I think it has come
up where I'll say yeah, I feltvery lustful this week, or like
(08:28):
I've just very, I've just feltmore inclined to act on
homosexual desires.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
Yeah, so hold on Let me yeah.
I'm going to go ahead and takeover real quick, but I wanted to
circle back a little bit andyou say you acted gay, do you
mean by that?
Or people said you acted gay,so I'm curious because it's
actually something again.
Yeah, yeah so who says thoseare gay traits?
It's kind of what I'm thinkingthrough right now.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
I think guys come in different varieties and just
because the culture flamboyantdude yeah just because the
culture assigns that to beingmore feminine.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
It's the culture, it's not the bible exactly so.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
I definitely think it was just, um, you could say
society.
I could just say it was thekids at my school who made me
feel that way, but I definitelythink it was other kids who
picked up on the way I acted.
It was also, um the friendgroup that I had around me that,
I think, influenced me to actthat way.
Not to blame them, because I'msure I would have acted more
flamboyant, um either way, but Iat the time had not a good
(09:30):
friend group, um not the bestinfluences on me, and they were
um a very like lgbtq communitykind of friendship group and so
I think also surrounding myselfwith them, also made me, made my
traits a little more flamboyant, I guess you could say yeah,
jordan, how for you like?
Speaker 1 (09:48):
one of the things that we talked about with you is
that whenever, uh, when we youknow you've talked about this
over and over, but you're at Ilove what he was saying about
his affirmations or reaffirm onkind of a daily basis, do you
still do like those affirmationsor like, or is that sort of
drifted off over time?
It or is that sort of drifted?
Speaker 4 (10:02):
off.
Over time it's drifted off, butI mean I can still find my
identity in the Bible.
I just don't necessarily saythose affirmations every day
anymore.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
And for someone like you know you're over twice his
age, right, thanks, you know.
So what does that mean?
Like?
What kind of hope can you offerhim about someone who, like it,
hasn't like changed for younecessarily?
(10:33):
But have you found a closenesswith God, or has it just been
like a grind of like?
I'm going to take this by faithand I can't go back because I
know that's God's word.
How do you handle that Jordan?
Speaker 4 (10:44):
I mean there's seasons, right, ups and downs.
It definitely feels like agrind.
I mean, abraham had to wait 80years but at the same time he
also cheated on his wife in thattime period.
So take that with a grain ofsalt.
But yeah, just, it's still.
It's hard.
You know you have to take it byfaith.
Really, I think God can changethat.
(11:07):
It doesn't mean he has toEither way.
It's for his glory and tryingto see it through that lens,
which is obviously a lot easiersaid than done, yeah, but I do
have to leave and I will justsay keep fighting the good fight
.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
That's always been an encouraging thing people have
said to me, so thank you man,yeah, thanks jordan yeah so,
chase, let me, let me talk toyou about this because, like you
said, you were attracted toguys and girls like is that
shifted.
Now are you still attractedgirls?
A little bit are you yeah andso is it something.
Now it's like I'm going toovercome, uh, the I'm going to
(11:44):
kill off in me the attraction tomen in a sexual way and I'm
going to I don't know since feedit, but like I'm going to
cultivate a godly life.
And so how are you?
How do you?
Because there's peoplelistening, they have kids that
are saying that they're gay,they're having kids that are,
that are now 25, that are comingout as gay.
(12:06):
We have a whole trans world ofinsanity and yet you were able
to, even in a gay-affirmingchurch, to hear the words of
your mom and your sister, tothen say to kind of grieve.
You had to go through agrieving process of giving up my
(12:26):
sin for King Jesus.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
And here I mean to me when I hear that.
That is like it reminds me ofthe rich young ruler.
Jesus comes up to the richyoung ruler, or the rich young
ruler comes up, jesus falls onhis knees.
What must I do to be saved?
And he's like you know, youneed to keep all the laws.
Like I've done that.
I've been pretty much awesomemy whole life.
(12:49):
He's like oh, one thing youstill lack go and sell
everything you have, give it tothe poor and then come follow me
.
And I think for you, you kindof went through a process.
I have to give up everything, Ihave to follow Jesus.
And you were able to do that.
And the question I have, likethat, like how were your parent
or how was your mom and sisterable to speak that into your
(13:09):
life in a way that you receivedit not with like, or maybe
you're at first, you're likewhatever, I don't know um, but
how did you respond?
What were the thoughts goingthrough your head?
How did the holy spirit work inyou over this past season?
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Um.
So it was my mom who told mefirst, Um, and I was definitely
just in a state of shock.
I wasn't um, I was just takingin what I was hearing, because
up until this point they myfamily had um, reassured me that
it was okay to have thesedesires, and then my mom kind of
(13:46):
went about that situationsaying that she would always
support me, no matter what.
And but if you are seriousabout your faith, then this is
what the Bible says, and I guessthat came from her own
conviction, also being aChristian.
So then I kind of left thatthere and then I went to go talk
to my sister and mybrother-in-law because they were
(14:08):
, and until this day, some ofthe biggest mentors and
Christian influences on my life,and we had had conversations
where they had also made mebelieve, not in a bad way, that
it was okay to act on thesedesires, even as a Christian.
But we were no offense to them,love them.
(14:30):
I think we were all just in alukewarm state, kind of at the
time being.
So I don't blame them at all forthinking that, because they
were still in their own learningprocess as well.
But then, yeah, I guess I waskind of a little upset about
that because they were just,they were like my best friends
and they were always people thatI trusted more than anything in
(14:52):
the world.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
So I kind of went over to their place and I sat
them down and I had a talk and Iwas like I just I don't know
where this is coming from,because up until this point, um,
I was kind of led to believethat it was all right.
And so I was like what made youfeel all of a sudden that it's
(15:14):
not?
And my sister just kind of keptit real with me, which I
appreciated it a lot.
She was saying it just camefrom reading the word and being
more consistent in the Bible andover time I came to realize
that in the Bible and after,over time, I came to realize
that, um, there's in her um, Idon't know if this is the exact
way I should put it, but there'sno such thing as a gay
Christian.
You're either gay or aChristian and you can't really
(15:36):
they can't really coexist.
And although I was upset atfirst, it took some time and a
lot of prayer.
This was not just um, this wasnot just like God flipping a
light ball, like a light switchin my life, like it took a long
time, in fact.
I don't like I was um, I didn'teven actually admit that I was
(15:58):
ready to let go of the gay partof me until this year, like I
think it was like a month ago, Icame back from retreat and I, I
w, I went to a Christianretreat for my other church and
was the same church thataffirmed your gayness.
And now, yes, but it's wellsorry let me, that's good.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
I mean, I love how God can work the crazy way yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Um, so the youth is run differently than the actual
church.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Oh, that's wild.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Yes, so I have made all my friends in the youth and
the youth pastor aware and theyhave all been utterly supportive
and understanding and agreewith me.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Wow, so the youth is so there's a chance you could
change the direction of anentire church because of your
conviction about what god istelling you, and you could write
the course of so many souls ofthe future as they, as they
start to see the reality thatgod, the holy spirit, is working
in you.
You, you know, you're at a gayaffirming church who then
(16:59):
notices this in you, that theholy spirit is at work, and
they're like huh, here's a guythat we said go for it, you know
, marry a dude.
And then all of a sudden you'relike no, the God's word says
this.
And now you've transformed Idon't want to say give you like
God, through you, hastransformed the youth group and
inevitably that's going to havean effect on the church as a
(17:21):
whole.
Yeah, that's wild.
I mean god willing, yeah, yeah,no, but that that's.
That is an incredible chase.
Like when you think about youknow, like old people everywhere
, um and by old people I meanpeople like you know, over 20,
um, they are like terrified ofthe next generation coming
(17:42):
forward and just saying, oh,that's old, draconian, old stuff
.
We don't live like that anymore.
We need to be free of all therules of this ancient book, and
what you're saying is theancient book has life to you and
it actually is breathing intoyour soul.
And would you say you feel moreconnected to Christ now that
you've kind of validated withScripture, you've aligned with
(18:03):
Scripture?
Do you feel more close toChrist now that you've kind of
validated with Scripture, you'vealigned with Scripture?
Do you feel more close toChrist now?
Speaker 3 (18:09):
For sure.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
And so what is your like?
How do friends at school like,because you're still at like a
normal high school and you'restill dealing with people that
are probably like oh, you'rebetter than us now.
I mean like, how have you dealtwith like the high school drama
, so I'm homeschooled?
Oh, you're better than us now.
I mean like, how have you dealtwith like the high school drama
, so I'm homeschooled?
Oh, okay, got it.
That is definitely All yourclassmates are.
(18:31):
All your classmates, just thinkyou're weird.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
No, so it's online school.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Okay, but I'm sure it's online school.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
All right, so you're not having to deal with that.
It's a Christian online school.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Okay, so the only interaction you've had this is
wild to me, so the onlyinteraction you've had with
other kids is at a church wherethey're gay affirming, and then
you change the culture of it.
Okay, that's powerful.
So talk to me about then.
Like, what's the message thenfor you as you move forward, as
you interact with otherteenagers?
(19:03):
Like do your parents allow youto be on like tiktok or anything
?
Yes, and like how do you like,have you seen anybody with like
your same message?
Speaker 3 (19:14):
um, I personally have not.
I've seen like influencers onsocial media with the same
message, but I personally havenot met anyone right with um the
same experiences that I've gonethrough, or like what I've
dealt with personally.
And um, just to go back alittle, I I was in public school
.
This is my first year doingonline.
Okay, all right, so we justleft.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
uh, what was it?
So?
How long have so you've beenfully, I don't know, jesified in
the past year?
Jesified, I don't knowchristian.
I don't know.
Jesus-ified in the past year,jesus-ified, I don't know
Christian, I don't know.
I'm trying to get full on hereright, like you're going on,
like there's no such thing as agay Christian.
I'm fully in following Jesus.
I'm leaving my old life behind,new life, born again.
(19:57):
That's all happened outside ofpublic school.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Yeah, it was happening while I was in public
school as well.
Yeah, so I was still trying tospread the word, spread the
gospel.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
I was inviting kids to youth every now and then, but
I definitely while in publicschool, I still identified as
gay okay and so for them to findout, now that you are of christ
follower, that you've said noto homosexuality and you are
wanting other people to also sayno to homosexuality, what would
they say to you?
Speaker 3 (20:30):
um, I guess that was always like my biggest fear and
why I was a little nervous, um,or anxious to admit this change
in my life at first, because I,to be to be completely honest, I
don't know if they wouldbelieve me, right, and it also
(20:51):
comes with this fear of pushingpeople farther away from God.
Right, because we live in asociety today where everything's
connected to your emotions andyour feelings and, oh, if I'm
not feeling God, then it can'tbe real.
And eventually I had.
I guess my message to people isthat I had to realize that if
you always substitute your faithfor your feelings, then you're
(21:12):
only going to be a Christianwhen it's convenient for you.
Wow.
And spoken from a 16 year oldyear old and, like I said, I
don't.
I don't claim to, um, I don'tlike to tell people that it's
easy because it wasn't.
This has been a hard foughtbattle, that I've been praying
(21:32):
for over many years and evenuntil this day, I still struggle
with it and, um, I'm stilltrying to find ways.
Like when I said, I try andreaffirm my faith on a daily
basis.
I think everyone should do that, whether you have these desires
or not.
Yeah, and I'm not perfect inthat I forget to read my Bible
all the time, but yeah, Idefinitely think that it is
(21:58):
possible as long as you put youridentity in God.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
So you've kind of so, did you like?
Say hey, I'm now.
I don't know if you said thisI'm now not gay, I'm going to
leave public school, or it waslike public school is just a
dumpster fire.
I'm going to homeschool.
What was the?
Speaker 3 (22:13):
it was more like the second one.
So um.
So last year I had I was juststruggling a lot with my own
personal health and familyissues, so I would go to school
and I could not even focus onthe work.
I was always filled withanxiety and depression and just
(22:34):
struggling with my own mentalhealth, and I was calling my mom
almost every single day to comepick me up.
I just couldn't get throughschool.
So I pushed through the end offreshman year and then over the
summer my parents and I had manydeep conversations and we said,
okay, we've tried public schooland it's just not working out
for me.
(22:54):
Maybe we could try onlineschool.
And since I had already been aChristian at that point, I said
maybe it'd also be better topick an online school that is
Christian based, because thatwould just help me personally
and it definitely has.
The teachers at my onlineschool now are so amazing.
(23:14):
They kind of they try tocombine biblical stories with
our lessons every single day andevery day before class they
pray over us, pray over theclass.
It's just.
I definitely think it's improvedmy faith and my mental health a
lot more.
I definitely do miss theinteraction.
I do think it has had an effecton me being a little less
(23:35):
social.
But then again, I think thatevery kid's different and being
in public school, I just feltlike another kid in the
classroom didn't really feelseen, didn't feel um, like a
priority or really taken care of, and I just wasn't learning.
So I think everyone's different.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Yeah, I think you're really functional here on like,
like.
If you had any, did you have ananxiety before you came on here
?
Speaker 3 (23:58):
for sure all right.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
So, like you're unbelievably functional, you're
able to communicate without,like you know, losing your, your
trained thought, and you knownormal stuff that 16 year olds
do, like I don't know if youknow many 16 year olds, but they
can't form a coherent thought,and so the fact that you're able
to to do that shows that thatyou really have a gift.
Do you think that, um, and andI'm assuming, maybe I'm putting
(24:23):
this on you, I don't want to dothat, but that even like the,
the homosexuality, or likehaving to live up to what other
people's label was for you,inhibited you, or or like you're
trying to perform a little bit?
Was that any part of that?
Or just the, the mere factyou're around a bunch of insane
kids and they're all insane, andit's just so fun to be around
fun people that you're just likeit's hard to pay attention um,
(24:46):
yeah, I definitely think it waslike somewhere in between, where
it definitely was influenced bythe kids.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
I was around, yeah, and that label definitely was
put on me and since in my head Iwas like, well, I am somewhat
attracted to guys, like I guessI'll just go with it.
Um, and like I said earlier, itonly grew from there and yeah
yeah, no that's, that's wild.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
So do you still have any interaction with your old,
like um high school friends onoccasion, but for the most part
you're kind of cut off from themand you're just starting to
focus on you and yourrelationship with God.
And what is your social outoutput?
How do you interact sociallynow?
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Um, mainly through the youth, and then just anytime
, anything social comes up with,like friends from my old school
, if they want to, if they everwant to meet up or we want to go
do something, then I guess,like I'll go do that on occasion
.
Yeah, way to go, I think thatis, in of itself, that's.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
That's a challenge and, uh, holland is now a
homeschool dad and so, um, he'sgonna have to face that same
challenge.
Any thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (25:56):
on we got we got four kids and they're they're all
younger though, so my oldest is,uh, he'll be 11 this summer, so
we're not in the, like you know, high school teenager phase yet
, but a couple of years we'll bethere and, yeah, I think
they're.
A lot of their friendships andsocial stuff happens through
church, through sports, throughplaying with neighborhood kids
and stuff like that.
Um, and uh, I, I, I love, I,thank God for church friendships
(26:22):
and being able to havecommunity with other people who
know the Lord and are beingraised to.
You know, love the Lord.
Because your you know book ofProverbs says you walk with the
wise, you become wise.
And when you're walking withother families who are, as
opposed to walking with peoplewho are following whatever the
world says is right, walk youknow, walk in in the ways of you
(26:43):
know, whatever's popular inculture lead you off a cliff.
Um, and so the blessing ofbeing able to have you know like
a youth group or um communitythrough a Christian uh, it's all
online.
There's nothing like local inperson that y'all do together.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
No, um, I guess it depends on where you are, cause
I do know that in some places,like I, have a bunch of online
friends in california where theyall have a certain place where
they go meet up to do schooltogether yeah, that's cool, so
it does depend on where you are.
There's just not a lot of kidson the.
It's an international school,so there's gotcha.
There's kids all around the us.
(27:19):
There's people like from britainyeah but um, yeah, there's not
a whole lot of kids who do ithere in texas, and the kids who
do do it here in texas are a lotmore south I got you.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yeah, we're starting something up in the fall where
it's like once a week on mondaysthere's like a co-op type thing
with you know their familiesand stuff, and so I think, man,
homeschool is a blessing.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
You should come up here once a week and just hang
out with us.
Yeah, I should, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Also well, I was going to say one more thing
Earlier you were talking about.
You know your old friends andyou know feeling like you don't
want to push people away fromGod.
And like I think that'ssomething anyone listening who's
wanted to share their faith canresonate with in you know, not
just about this particular issue, but just about that fear.
(28:05):
But, man, I think of like ittakes a lot of courage basically
to try to talk to others aboutthe faith, knowing that they
might push away from you ormight push away from church even
.
I think about the courage ofyou know your mom and your
sister, and you know there'sprobably probably some of that
fear in you know, with talkingto you about this, and of you
know your mom and your sister,and you know there's probably
some of that fear in you knowwith talking to you about this,
(28:27):
but you know to find the courageto have those conversations
with you to the point where nowyou would say like, wow, man, it
opened my eyes and I see thingsdifferently now and I feel
closer to Christ.
And I think there's so muchencouragement to be found in
that that some people willreject you and will, you know,
separate themselves.
If you try to reach out to themwith the word but other people,
you could change your lifeforever.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
And so just remembering.
Yeah, I think that's what'sreally cool, jesus.
You know, when Jesus met with arich young ruler, the man
walked away sad and he did theexact right thing.
And the guy walked away sad.
And so it might be that someoneneeds to walk away sad, as even
(29:12):
you, yeah, walked away sad, butthen that's what's generated
the holy spirit's work in you togrieve the loss of sexuality so
that you could gain Christ.
And that you know, we don'tknow the end of the story for
the rich young ruler.
All we know is that he walkedaway sad then, and so who knows
ultimately what happened withhim?
(29:32):
But Jesus loved him and thenloved him enough to tell him the
truth about what was wrong withhis soul.
And I think that's the struggle,and I think this is where you,
as a Gen Z-er, are expressingthe fear of I don't want to
offend, and in fact it is theoffense that brought you to
(29:52):
salvation of recognizing, if I'mgoing to be serious about God,
then this part of my life can'tbe a part of my life, and god
calls me to something greaterbeyond sexuality, because even
like a heterosexual person, uh,if they folk, if they're so
focused on sex, they're just asguilty and wicked as a
(30:14):
homosexual in terms of they arein sin with their lust.
It just is probably scatteredamong eight gazillion images of
porn, and so the thing I wantyou to see is that that person's
repentance might look a littlebit different, but the whole
point is that they're having tosay no to a sexuality that is
(30:34):
not godly and say yes tofollowing after Jesus.
That's hard to do, and so Ithink what our young men,
especially across the country,need is like a man like you,
chase, who is 16 and says I'mwilling to do hard things.
I'm not merely going to do whatfeels convenient, which I
(30:54):
really loved.
You're a Christian inconvenience, so stop stealing
the label.
I love that.
But like, if we need to movefrom convenient Christianity
that adopts to however we'refeeling at the time, we get all
the comfort of Christ but noneof the king-ordained rebuke, and
I think that kids wouldgravitate to, they'd rise to
(31:16):
that, because there is somethinggreat and a great and high
calling to live for somethinggreater than yourself, and our
entire culture has been builtaround.
It's about you feeling good.
Feel a little better, feel alittle better, and I think what
we've realized that makes usmentally depressed.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yeah, it's like the worst thing, like there's a
version of you know, a a shellof Christianity that takes the
name of Christianity, but theworst thing that could ever
happen is someone walking awaysad.
You just want to approve of andaffirm everything and yet when
you look at Jesus in the Bible,people walked away sad sometimes
(31:54):
, and I think that is the—soeven you know what you're
talking about is like the desire.
There's a whole brand or branchof you know people claiming to
be Christian or who areChristian, but are saying that
as long as you're not acting onit, that's fine.
The desire itself isn't sinful.
(32:15):
Because you know, and sayingthat, you know, it's that same
impulse to try to just like Ijust don't want to offend anyone
, I want to affirm people.
It's that same impulse to tryto just like I just don't want
to offend anyone, I want toaffirm people, whereas you know,
the Bible is very clear we'renot.
It's not just our actions, it isour desires, our hearts, even,
and so even what Chris wassaying earlier, the reality, all
of us have disordered desiresand the Bible doesn't say
(32:38):
there's like two differenthomosexual, heterosexual, is not
, you know, like two differenttypes of people in the Bible.
There's one type of person,human being, and all of us have
disordered desires in a bunch ofdifferent ways, and even if we
don't act on those desires, thedesires themselves are sinful.
And the way to freedom is notby telling someone, hey, your
(32:59):
desires are fine, it's no bigdeal, but rather us learning to
confess our desires, bring ourdesires to God and even receive
you know, receive his grace andhis healing and his forgiveness,
even for the things that wedon't act on but still desire in
our hearts.
And so I feel like that's alevel of, you know, the
Christian message that peopleare unwilling to say because we
(33:22):
don't want to offend anyone andwhat we're doing is we're, we're
, you know, um, holding, holdingout on them.
Experiencing real freedom atthe level of your heart, not
just your actions, does thatmake sense.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Yeah, what's the next step for you, chase?
Like as you're looking at yourlife as you're, you know you're
16, you're two years away awayfrom graduating, which I know,
at 16 feels like forever, butit's going to come like that, um
, in two years.
What's the plan?
Is there any calling ofministry on your life?
Is there a desire to go in,like I don't know?
(33:54):
Uh, you want to be an engineer,you want to be a graphic artist
?
Like what, where are you going?
If you were to kind of say,like, the direction, your, your
life is what?
Speaker 3 (34:04):
I really don't know.
My, my, my calling has goneeverywhere.
I've, um, I've wanted to be anartist.
I've wanted to be, um, I, Iused to be in musical theater,
so I always thought about, like,maybe doing theater when I'm
older, um, I have been called toministry, or I felt a calling
to ministry and I do think thatit would be really cool to do it
.
Um, and yeah, I think I'mreally open to anything.
(34:27):
The reason that I'm open todoing anything is because I've
heard too many stories of peoplewho were saying like, oh, I
went to college so sure that Iwanted to do this, and then the
minute I graduated, god saidNope, you're, you're going into
ministry or doing something likethat.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
And then you spent $200,000 on nothing yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
I'm with you.
That was my story.
Yeah, and my story as well.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
But thankfully government paid for mine.
So yeah, I think that's what'shard about it.
Tell me about your view ofcollege.
I'd love to hear the16-year-old view of college,
because most old people like usjust think it's trash now.
So, tell me about what's yourview as a 16 year old looking at
college.
What do you think?
Speaker 3 (35:05):
I really don't know.
I haven't started looking atcolleges yet.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
From a 16 year old perspective, where you you know,
you don't know anything aboutanything.
You're just like college.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
Yeah, I was always taught that it's good to go to
college because it makes iteasier to get a job, for some
reason.
Right, that was the olden days.
Yeah, I definitely think thatcollege can be a very important
aspect of your life, becauseI've heard a lot of testimonies
where people's lives did getchanged at college because they
(35:34):
had good ministry.
But it's different for everyone, because I also know that there
are some colleges out there whohave some very philosophical
teachers who like to speak outagainst Christianity.
So it's very hard, because I doknow that colleges have a
little bit of everything.
But for me personally, I justthink that, were I to go to
(36:00):
college which I probably will,that were I to go to college
which I probably will as long asI immediately try my best to
find a good Christian communityto help keep me accountable and
help keep me on the straight andnarrow path.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Pretty much what you're saying is you want to go
to Texas A&M, that's good, oh,okay.
Yeah, I didn't go to Texas A&M,but it's really good.
They are really good.
Every Texas A&M person I've metbecame a Christian there and
they loved it and they lovedJesus.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
So, that's where you go.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Don't go to UT.
That's a dangerous place ofdarkness, Although you know,
maybe you're the light in thedark there.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
I don't think I have the grades to get in there
anyways.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Yeah, well, yeah, that's a good point.
So Rice is out, Okay, yeah, butI think so honestly, though.
But when you're looking atministry, if ministry is the
calling, I would, you know, alittle undergrad in Bible never
hurt anybody.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
Yeah, I definitely, if any ministry.
I'd love to become a youthpastor someday.
I have so much love and respectfor my youth pastor right now.
And um, and yeah, I definitelyI know what it's like to be a
teenager who either feels likeunseen or unheard, and even some
teenagers who have been savedbut then feel like they're too
(37:18):
young to lead, and I just just Iwant to be someone who can be
there for them, to relate tothem in their highest and lowest
moments well, way to go.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
I am really encouraged by that.
Um, wow, all right.
And back to any.
Any experiences growing up thatwere like, because usually
people say like well, the fatherwasn't present, or uh, there
was some traumatic sexual eventthat happened that like turned
you gay, but you didn't have anyof those experiences.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
Um, should I talk about it, oh?
Speaker 1 (37:54):
well, that's up to you are you okay with?
Speaker 3 (37:57):
it your story um, yeah, your story, yeah, sorry,
yeah.
So I won't get too deep into itbecause it takes so much longer
and there's so many details toit.
But I was talking earlier abouthow I struggled a lot with my
(38:23):
mental health last year.
Speaker 4 (38:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
Well, basically, I went to a Christian retreat last
year and there was a messageabout walls that need to be
broken down in your life andmaking yourself feel ashamed
because of things that you havegone through and keeping it a
secret.
Good, and I had just never feltcloser to God than I did on
that retreat.
So I I.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
This was the most recent one.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
This was the most recent one, okay, so I grabbed
one of my best friends.
Oh, sorry, sorry my old one, myold one, um, sorry, my old one
to like the old church.
Yes, the old church.
I still go to that church asyouth.
I just needed to get it off mychest so I grabbed um one of my
(39:20):
best friends and I grabbed myyouth pastor and I said I said,
hey guys, I've never actuallysaid this or told anyone in my
whole life, but I've beensexually abused by one of my
cousins since I was like fiveyears old and I've never told
anyone about it and he is a guy.
So I do feel like that didinfluence a lot of.
(39:43):
I do think that influenced alot of aspects of my life and
probably why I was just talkingto my sister and my mom about
this, that that could be a verybig factor as to why I had a lot
of gay desires growing up,because all I had ever known was
(40:04):
another guy or another man andit was a man or a same age, kid
it was the same age kid, Okay,which also made it so much
harder to admit because Icouldn't like.
It was hard for me and Icouldn't imagine the amount of
(40:24):
change and impact I was about tohave on this on my cousin's
life.
It was a family member Because,but as horrible as I felt for
him, I kind of had to put my ownfaith first and put myself
first and say I'm not going tolet this sin or shame hold me
(40:47):
down anymore and I need to tellsomeone, because if I don't, I
don't know if it's ever going tostop.
And this was after I had becomea Christian.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Wow, so you felt freedom through confession.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
Yes, well, that's powerful.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
That's wild.
Thanks for sharing.
I know that was.
I was not expecting that to gothat direction Like that's wild,
the freedom that God has givenyou through that which is, I
think, chase, if I can be boldhere, there is a lot of people
probably listening and they areholding on to shame like that.
We had a couple on here.
(41:23):
It's actually our most listenedto podcast, the Websters, and
they shared about how Stephenwent through so much as a kid of
the same sort of situation andthen struggled with porn as an
adult, and it was powerful howthe Lord really brought that to
(41:46):
the forefront and the power thatthat has had ever since.
And so what happens?
When guys lock that away, itaffects their marriages.
Even when you're like I'mrepentant, I'm not going to do
that, and when you have thatlurking in your heart it is just
to your point, your mentalhealth.
Man, I'm so grateful for thatfreedom.
Speaker 5 (42:06):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Man, way to go.
That is powerful that youshared it, but I think, more
than that, I need you to knowthat there are 16-year-olds all
over the place that haveexperienced something similar
and they were hoping thatsomeone had a situation like
them that they could share itwith, and so that becomes a
really, really big deal.
And so you've become anadvocate for people that are
stuck in darkness.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Way to go.
Yeah, and Jesus is the forgiverof our sins and he's also the
healer of our hearts and thepain that we have, the guilt,
the shame, the confusion.
Like Jesus is just so good inthat you know he sees everything
about our lives and find restfor your soul, come to me and
find healing for your heart,come to me, find forgiveness for
(42:55):
your sins, come to me, findpurpose for your life.
And so just all of it is foundin Jesus.
And it's so amazing when Jesusfinds us.
Speaker 4 (43:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
And our lostness.
He comes and, rescues us, givesus new life.
It was actually such an amazing, not amazing.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
It was actually such an amazing, not amazing.
It was just a really awakeningand healing season because last
year, after making thatconfession, my family was so
supportive, so loving, and theymade me feel so protected.
Speaker 4 (43:26):
That's so awesome.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
They took care of it immediately.
So last year was my first timeever confessing it and then
after that, going intohomeschool and seeing all this
chaos that was going on betweenmy family, um, because of this
one thing that happened in mylife, I just felt like my life
(43:48):
was completely um ended, yeah,kind of like gone to ruin.
Which was so funny because whenI went to retreat again this
year, the um, the whole themecame from a verse from Isaiah 64
.
I don't know the exact verse,but it was something.
Isaiah 64, god will rebuild youfrom your ruins and raise up
generations.
And it was all about how, ifyou feel like you're down and
(44:10):
ruined right now, god will notonly rebuild you from that, but
he will sorry, he will rebuildyou even stronger and better,
and he will.
That is awesome.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
That is awesome.
That's powerful man, isn't itcrazy, like I?
Just like I think about youknow whoever the pastor was that
planned that retreat and thatmessage and that theme, you know
had no idea what was going onand you know there's probably
like all these other people whofelt like that was just for me.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
Yeah, there were like 500 kids there or over actually
, and I just couldn't imaginehow much that message had spoken
to all those kids Awesome, thatis so awesome.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
All those kids Awesome, that is so awesome.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
That's powerful man Way to go, Wow.
So the Lord is really redeemingyour life, bringing up all
because, again, it's truly ablessing to have all that stuff
come out, have your family sosupportive.
That's why I'm very blessed.
When you're 16, you have family,you just assume everyone's like
that or you can't imagine afamily not like that you have
(45:12):
family you just assumeeveryone's like that, or you
can't imagine a family not likethat, but just from a person
that has ministered to a lot ofdifferent um people in different
sets like you don't hear aboutone like, uh, the conviction to
confront you in homosexuality,one.
And then the ability for you toconfess, uh, something deeply
shameful from your five-year-oldpast that you probably kept
(45:34):
buried in your soul for so long,where you're feeling like you
have a billion pounds in yourchest and then walk you through
that even explodes the family asa whole.
That's wild.
I really want to just honorthat aspect of your family for
really sticking by you, for youto being so fully devoted to
Jesus and living for Christ whenthe whole world would be bro
(46:00):
that what you're saying isoffensive.
Wow, that's powerful.
So I think the direction I wantto kind of just take us is like
back to the generation.
I just feel like you have amessage for so many 16-year-olds
and probably you know I haveprobably three 16-year-olds
(46:21):
listening to this podcast, butthere's a lot more parents that
are listening, and so whatyou've just shared is going to
open up the doorway for them.
So let's just talk through howdid your parents approach you
and maybe and maybe it was yoursister as well.
But how did they approach youto confront you in homosexuality
Like?
I know that this seems like Ijust told you.
(46:41):
No, no, give me the cause.
I think people are like I needto know what to say, how to you
know how to do, because theyweren't parented yeah and so, um
, how did your, maybe with yourmom, how did your mom build
(47:03):
relationship with you enough sothat she could confront you on
the very thing that at one pointshe was like, yeah, go for it.
And then now is like justkidding, like that, because
that's a huge shift yeah, um.
Speaker 3 (47:17):
So a big regret of mine um was that I never
actually talked about it with mydad, which I was um had so much
does he still not know, no, he,we've had many conversations
about it since that'd be reallyweird.
But hey, dad looks at thispodcast it was just that one
conversation that never happenedwhere, like, it was just my mom
who told me about like, um, youshouldn't be acting on these
desires which I had so muchunderstanding for, because I do
(47:39):
realize that that could be anawkward situation, especially
for a dad and a son to have,sure, um, so it was really just
my mom who had that conversationwith me, and yeah, I think it
was.
It was um, it was just like avery hard day, cause I had also
just gotten my braces on.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
So um yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
And my face was in so much pain.
Speaker 3 (47:58):
And then my mom was like, oh, do you want to go to
lunch to get like a milkshake?
And I was like I was like okay,and we went and sat down and we
kind of just got straight tothe point where my mom kind of,
is your mom a straight to thepoint person, the point where my
mom kind of.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
Is your mom a straight to the point person?
Speaker 3 (48:15):
yes, I, I think so, um, so like, how's your
milkshake cool?
All right, let's talk aboutfirst corinthians six, nine um,
I love that and she, my mom.
She's actually here um.
My mom is such a very kind andunderstanding person and let's
bring mom.
Speaker 1 (48:29):
Can you come on?
Would you mind coming on?
We need to hear this.
Speaker 3 (48:32):
This is important she definitely has a way of um
putting things and talking thatdoes have your own mic yeah, the
full table.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
You have to introduce your mom chase.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
Oh hi, this is my mom .
Her name is Shannon.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
Hello, All right.
So Shannon, so you, he gets hisbraces on.
You're like you know, this isthe right time this is the right
time.
Speaker 5 (48:59):
Well, we kind of had a thing where, first of all,
Chase is one of five.
So, it's hard to getindividualized one-on-one time
with my children.
So when he got his braces onand his mouth was sore, what's
better than taking him for amilkshake?
Speaker 1 (49:17):
Right, that's a win.
Love it.
Speaker 5 (49:18):
Yes, and the thought like it wasn't like a
premeditated hey, we're going tohave this conversation.
It was just.
Chase is a deep thinker and helikes to have conversations and
I can't remember what evenstarted the conversation.
But there was a moment withinthe conversation that I felt
(49:43):
like I needed to let him knowthat through my deepening of
faith, I had led him astray.
It was unintentional, becauseyou know, when you know better,
(50:03):
you do better, but I was nowaware that Chase has always, to
my knowledge, wanted a deepfaith and to walk with Jesus
always to my knowledge, wanted adeep faith and to walk with
Jesus.
And knowing that, as hard asthis conversation was going to
be, I had to have it.
I knew it meant he was probablygoing to be mad at me, but
(50:29):
Chase and I have had a lot oftough conversations and we've
both gotten upset at each other,but it was always for his best
interest.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
So Shannon, like how old was he at that, was that,
how old Was I?
13?
Speaker 5 (50:42):
I think 14, 14.
Speaker 3 (50:44):
So he's 14.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
You're taking your 14 year old for a milkshake You're
sitting down across from andyou say, hey, I've led you
astray.
And then is he sort of likewhat was his?
Can you remember his face?
What did it look like?
Speaker 5 (51:00):
Disappointment, yeah, yeah, hurt, and I wasn't even
sure if the words that I wassaying to him were really
resonating or if he was actuallydigesting them.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (51:13):
And that was okay.
I knew this was going to be thefirst conversation of.
I was hoping prayerful that itwas going to be the first
conversation of many.
Yeah, but part of my growth andmy growth in my parenting is to
allow my kids to, to, to hearwhen I've made a mistake, to
acknowledge that there is noperfect parent.
(51:34):
Way to go, and this wassomething I needed him to know
that I had been teaching himincorrectly.
Speaker 3 (51:42):
Yeah, wow, I remember definitely being in a state of
shock.
I wasn't necessarily angry orsad, I just didn't know what to
be, and I do thinkdisappointment was probably the
right way to put it is I was alittle bit disappointed, um, but
I guess what made me, um, whatmade me realize that this was
(52:03):
the truth that I was hearingover time, was that my mom has
been always the biggestsupporter, not just of me, but
of all my siblings and I, andshe's always only one of the
best for us, and she is aChristian herself and she does.
She does have a gay brother.
She did grow up with a similarsituation and he is.
My uncle is currently stillliving in a gay marriage.
(52:25):
Um, so I was like, so it tookme some time, but over some deep
thought and some grace andunderstanding, I was like, wow,
my mom, she cares for me.
So she wouldn't have actuallytold me this unless she thought
it was actually true, and Ithink that awakened something in
me.
Speaker 1 (52:45):
This is wild.
This is the craziest.
I mean, like I was notexpecting to have this
conversation right here.
This is so great.
So, shannon, you said, hey,I've led you astray.
Being gay is not okay.
Like how did you?
I mean, how did you bring that?
I mean, I think this what I'mtrying to get is like so it was
through tears, yeah, like you'rejust crying and like I love you
.
Speaker 5 (53:04):
And I told him that this is his walk, this is his
life, this is his walk with theLord as his mother.
I will love him no matter what,but I care about his salvation.
(53:24):
And so he needed to know thatin order to be closer with God,
to get into the kingdom ofheaven.
You cannot live this type oflifestyle.
Speaker 3 (53:28):
Wow, oh, I think what brought this up is that I think
I said something about thisearlier, but we were talking
about me getting baptized andbeing fully committed to God, so
I think that's what it was isthat we were talking about
getting baptized, and she waslike before you get baptized, we
got to have this conversation,wow, shannon.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
Way to go man, that's amazing, thank you.
That like brings tears to myeyes.
I can't even believe it.
I'm not imagining how hard thatmust have been, the amount of
conviction you must have feltand then being able to
communicate it and just notknowing if that would explode
everything, or if it wouldresult in this, which is wild,
(54:05):
so way to go.
That is like, if you want it youknow we're going to have next
show is all about parenting andShannon's going to teach us how
to do it, because that'spowerful, I think.
I think sometimes we can justmiss on, like, as a parent, you
know you love your kids so much,so much they don't even even
come close to understanding,cause how can they?
Right, they don't know.
But like this is like yourwhole.
(54:26):
You're like you do anything.
And then, if you've led someoneastray, especially someone you
love, and like now you're likeah, let me walk that back super
hard, okay, so you do that, didyou?
Do you then come back to herchase?
Do you go like hey, I want torevisit that.
Or that's when you went to yoursister no, that's when I went
to my sister.
Speaker 3 (54:46):
We never really revisit.
Revisited that afterwards.
Yeah, I like immediate, oh Ithink it was that same night
where I texted my sister and Iwas like, hey, can I come?
Because they live separatelyfrom us, they had their own
apartment and back at that timeI would sleep over almost like
every other weekend we were.
We were very close, um, andstill are till this day, um.
But yeah, I texted her almostimmediately saying, hey, would
(55:07):
it be all right if I came andslept over at your guys' place
this weekend?
They said, yeah, all good.
And because my mom had made meaware that, I think my sister
told my mom first about this andthen my mom told me.
Speaker 5 (55:21):
It's a family affair.
Speaker 3 (55:23):
What.
Speaker 5 (55:24):
I said it's a family affair.
Speaker 3 (55:25):
It was something that my whole family was a part of.
So then I kind of went over tomy sister and I was like was a
part of um.
So then I kind of went over tomy sister and I was like what,
um, what really made you came tothe conclusion that this
conversation had to be had, orthat I had to be made aware of
this, or why this even came up?
Speaker 1 (55:46):
and then they, and then she just jumps in, just
yeah, like hey, we love you andyeah, she's grown in their walk.
Speaker 3 (55:51):
Yeah, she was kind of just reiterating.
What my mom was saying is thatof course she'll love me no
matter what.
But to truly commit to yourfaith takes sacrifice and
surrender.
Amen.
Wow, this was something that Icould not pursue anymore if I
wanted to walk with Jesus.
(56:11):
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (56:12):
Hey, that's wild, all right, so it's so awesome.
Speaker 2 (56:15):
I'm just like in awe of God and and like I mean
literally like this is as apastor.
You know this is a an issue, asituation, a question that comes
up, you know, fairly often andthere's so much fear surrounding
this of like I don't want to.
(56:35):
You know, I don't want to pushanyone, I don't want to offend
anyone, I don't want to, andthen here we are just hearing
how God is working in, like yourwhole family in such a powerful
way.
That is not, you know.
It's.
That is love and grace andtruth all wrapped together.
That is love, and grace andtruth all wrapped together and
you know it's not a cheap gracethat's like, oh, sin's not that
(56:56):
bad.
And it's not a harsh truth oflike I'll only love you if you
change.
And you know it is grace andtruth.
I love you no matter what, butyou need to know the truth and
this is what God's word says,and it is just so powerful and
awesome.
Speaker 5 (57:18):
Like man, my conversation Well before I had
the conversation with Chase, itwas a conversation from Bree
that she had with me.
That was a real conversationwhere I mean she helped me
realize that the conversationneeded to be had.
Speaker 1 (57:29):
Wow, wow, all right, so Brie is what number child?
She's my oldest.
Speaker 3 (57:36):
She's the oldest.
Speaker 5 (57:37):
And you're number.
Speaker 1 (57:38):
I'm four, number four .
Speaker 3 (57:40):
Okay, wow, Wow, but at the time I do think love all
my siblings equally.
But I do think that Brie and Iat the time were the closest
because I was the most investedwe were still going to the
Catholic church at the time werethe closest because I was the
most invested we were stillgoing to the Catholic church at
the time, I believe, or maybe wehad already left, but we had
just left the Catholic churchand I was, and Bree and Pablo
(58:01):
were the only ones going totheir own church, separate from
us.
Yeah, and I was just veryinvested with the church that
they were going to at the timeand more and only grew more
curious and um, I actually it'sfunny I just had a phone call
with Brie a couple of days agowhere I was saying that at the
time she was just, she wasalways my closest friend, she
(58:23):
was someone that I trusted morethan anyone in the world and I
guess that was one of thebiggest reasons why it hurt
hearing this come from her, butit was also what made me so
comfortable going over and justasking and putting it plainly.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (58:41):
So man love that, all right.
So then, what made you want tocome on the podcast?
Like you know, cause we haveyou might be the only other 16
year old listener on our massiveaudience worldwide, but what
made you say I want to get onthe podcast to share?
Speaker 3 (58:56):
that Brie invited me.
Oh, you're right, I forgotabout that.
I forgot about that.
So my bad.
I think it was maybe two yearsago.
I actually did talk aboutstarting my own podcast because
I thought it'd just be cool, andI have talked about getting
more involved and wanting toshare my testimony and faith in
(59:20):
front of other kids.
But I am someone who does havea bit of stage fright.
I do get nervous talking infront of like other people or
even just being on stage ingeneral.
So I did.
I think it was like two yearsago.
I was so sure that I was goingto start my own podcast and I
just thought being behind acamera would make me so much
more comfortable.
And then I don't know what itwas.
I guess over time I just kindof forgot about it and never
(59:41):
actually pursued it.
And then and then here we are,yeah.
Speaker 1 (59:44):
Yeah, okay Well, you heard it here first.
Uh, the chase food podcastcoming soon, uh no promises
Wherever you listen to yourpodcast.
It's going to be talking aboutbeing a teenager, interactions
of sexuality and faith, and theculture and how to overcome the
darkness.
Speaker 3 (01:00:02):
Is that where we're going?
Sure, I love it.
Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
Well, man, listen, if you have any questions out
there in podcast land and youwould like to have Chase come
back and maybe answer all ofthem.
If you have any questions forparenting from Shannon, who's
going to tell you how to do it,we'd love to answer those.
You can just text us at737-231-0605 or go to
PastorPleckcom and leave amessage for us there.
We would love to hear from you.
(01:00:25):
Any final thoughts, holland?
Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
Man.
I just want to one say like Godbless you guys.
Thank you and Bree, way to go,way to go.
Older sister, sweet daughter,shannon, like as a mom having
that hard conversation and Chase, just like the courage to not
only just like I don't know, goall in on Jesus and then be able
(01:00:51):
to share it.
I'm just like blown away byy'all's family and just want to
say God bless y'all.
They are encouragement to me,thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
Anything else.
You want to wrap us up withShannon?
You got anything?
Final thoughts.
Speaker 5 (01:01:01):
Uh, I just want Chase to know how proud I am.
Thank you, sharing your story,sharing your testimony, walking
the path that you're on,powerful.
You are a tool, and I'm just soexcited to see how God uses you
.
Speaker 4 (01:01:19):
I remember when a tool was a bad word.
Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
Sorry.
Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
In the hand of the Lord, a tool for God, you're a
tool.
On that note, have an awesomeweek of worship.
Speaker 4 (01:01:39):
You're not that kind of tool, love being a tool for
the Lord.
Speaker 3 (01:01:43):
That's good.
I definitely think that withpatience and perseverance,
anything is possible, as long asyou don't limit God's power
because I think that was a bigfactor to why everything took so
long in my life is I just keptlimiting God's power and kept
saying, oh, this will neverhappen in my life.
And then here I am and itdefinitely has, and just God
(01:02:08):
really can turn everythingaround.
Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
That he can, and so, from our house to yours, let him
turn it around.
Have an awesome week of worship.
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