February 18, 2025 • 36 mins
Have a question or comment for Pastor Plek or one of his guests. Send it here.
341: Ever wondered how ancient texts like the Song of Solomon can shed light on modern relationships? Join Pastor Plek, Pastor Mo, and Pastor Holland as they explore the intersection of spirituality and intimacy. Together, they unpack sermons from Eastside Community Church focusing on Haggai and Wells Branch Community Church, where the Song of Solomon is examined from multiple perspectives. These insights can help you understand how prioritizing faith and godly principles can transform our personal pursuits and relationships.
Got questions? Text us at 737-231-0605!
Like, share, and subscribe! We love seeing and responding to your reviews and comments.
Support the show: https://wbcc.churchcenter.com/giving
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
and welcome back to pastor plex podcast.
I'm your host, pastor plec, andjoining me in studios none
other than muhammad ali, pastorof our students and associate
pastor here at wells branchcommunity church.
How you doing good?
How are you?
I'm awesome and pastor hollandgreg lead pastor there at east
side community church.
That's on the east side of aust.
Very true, that is where it is.
(00:27):
Thanks, chris.
Yeah, yeah, glad to have you.
How is the east side?
Is it still?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
there, still there, god's doing great things,
wonderful, wonderful things.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Well, now we had this past week.
What did you guys preach thereat Eastside?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
We just started a series in the book of Haggai
Short series, vision seriesgoing to spend a couple weeks
covering Haggai.
Did you tell them to?
Speaker 1 (00:49):
stop working on their houses and start working on the
church.
Essentially, that's good.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
That's good Got to get your priorities straight.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Work on your house, but do the Lord's work first,
lord's work first.
I appreciate that.
Now we're in the Song ofSolomon, which we had to tell
all the parents to make surethey were ready for this and a
lot more.
Our children's ministry was atits highest level in a long,
long time, so there were a lotof us that were not ready for
(01:17):
that conversation and a lot thatjust jumped into it and said
let's go, and I reallyappreciated that.
So we're talking about sex, sex.
We're talking about the song ofsolemn, we're talking about
marriage, and song of solemnstarts off with and this is my
view on this, which is kind offun uh, in, when we start off,
let him kiss me with the kissesof his mouth, for your love is
better than wine.
(01:37):
Your anointing oils arefragrant.
Your name is oil poured out.
Therefore, virgins, love, youdraw me after you, let us run.
The king has brought me intohis chambers to me.
I.
I took that as it was thewedding night and she's
remembering the wedding nightand is excited about it.
Before she has a flashback toprior to the wedding night, my
view, any thoughts on what wasyour view on those first four
(02:01):
verses?
Yeah, yeah, agree, oh, cool, uh, and you cause.
You preach this to your church,maybe three or four years ago.
You know he's already done allthat.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
And we, we preach through it at uh, the young, the
young adult group, like 10years ago way back in the day,
here at Wells branch.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
That's right so uh, that's right, so yeah, so a lot
of people have different takeson the Song of Solomon.
There is the allegory take,which has been honestly
Christian tradition for about1800 years, was allegory.
It was either, or even beforethat let's just go 5,000 years
it was Yahweh's covenantal lovewith Israel and then when
(02:43):
Christians came along, it wasChrist's covenantal love with
the church.
Some middle-aged mystics were.
It was like Christ's love withthe individual.
And then back to the reformerswent, christ's love for the
church, and so everybody for themost part kind of kept that as
an allegory.
And then till some, really thelast 200 years, bible scholars
(03:06):
go like man it.
It's tough to sell the twobreasts as being the old and new
testament or like, um, someallegorical view only.
And I think so.
There's allegory allegory.
There's a literal view of thesong of solomon that is just
strictly a God's delight in thesexual experience of a husband
(03:27):
and a wife and him cheering iton as his design.
And then the one I've reallygrown to appreciate is the
typological view of where it is.
You're looking at Christ's lovefor his church, or covenantal
love of God and for his people,and then also a love between a
man and a woman that God made,designed, and how sex is to be
(03:50):
enjoyed as something that wasmade for pleasure, not simply
only for procreation.
Procreation is probably aprimary, but a huge part of
God's design for sex was that wewould enjoy it, and so I think
that's part of his obviously,design.
Mo, have you heard any otherviews on that or any other sort
of ways to approach the songSolomon?
Speaker 3 (04:14):
I don't think so.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Yeah, those are, those are pretty much.
It, that's pretty much it.
Yeah, and I think that one ofthe things that I kind of went
from on this is that there's acouple of things to look at.
Is a husband quality or somespousal quality, but first the
husband quality was, uh, havinga good name and then pursuing a
woman who wanted the same.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
How, like, when you just thinking back to Lauren,
like, like, talk to me aboutlike your, uh, cause you were in
a young adult ministry inCalifornia and and talk to me
about like your, because youwere in a young adult ministry
in California and talk to meabout like that perspective of
being a person that was becauseyou were like pastoring really,
or at least teaching and doingyoung adult ministry back then
(04:57):
when you met Lauren.
Yeah, so talk to us about, like, the good name aspect for you
and how that played into it.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Man, it was kind of wild because I feel so.
I was the pastor of theministry and this was I started
that right when COVID hit.
Germany's restriction for COVIDwas you can have up to 250
(05:27):
people at a gathering, as longas it was an outdoor space.
And I figured, man, this is atough transition, ain't nobody
going to show up?
And we went from 30 people toabout 180 people in about four
months.
Wow, to about 180 people inabout four months.
Wow, and it's, I mean sure, likethe preaching and the worship
(05:48):
was what it's a bunch of peoplein their early twenties that
were alone, yeah, starving, thatwere starving for community.
So I give all of the credit tothe ability in the people in our
community to be able to forgefriendships, and that was
happening, yeah.
And then Lauren comes in and Ialready have like friendships
(06:11):
with some of the people therefor like years, yeah, yeah, yeah
.
And so I really like the factthat you talked about here in
the text where it says theothers and so like you're having
this not isolated and like, oh,who's your girlfriend, by the
way, and whatever it's likeeverybody knows everybody.
When you're hanging out, you'reall together, and so you're
(06:32):
getting to know somebody, yes,in the context, like
individually, but you're gettingto know somebody in the context
of, like, how do they talk toother people, right, how are
they around, not just me, butaround everyone else?
And so to me, like havingexperienced that, yes, one, I
mean, obviously, like, as apastor, you have to be careful
in pursuing a woman within yourministry, right?
So that's what I was reallyreally careful about.
(06:54):
But as soon as I recognized like, oh man, she's great, she loves
the Lord, she, whatever, like,I went for it.
And in my mind as soon as I did, I was like I, I want to marry
you, yeah, right, and it byGod's, by God's grace, it all
worked out, um, but, yeah, so,like pursuing and having to me
like good friends, yeah, cause,to me, if you don't know how to
(07:15):
have friends, you, you don'thave any business trying to
pursue someone, right, you don'teven know how to hold a
friendship, right, right, andhow much more is a marriage?
So that's kind of how it was.
I like the way you put that.
Speaking about that, I was justlike, yes, I love how you
brought out, kind of like thething that you had with adrian,
yeah, where y'all were runningand she's just like you know,
I'm out, I'm out, or like let'sdefine the relationship type of
(07:37):
thing, and if you're going topursue me, pursue me.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah, I just that's bold, she, she was bold, I mean
well obviously.
Yeah, you know Adrian for morethan three seconds and that,
honestly, was the thing that waslike I have never heard a woman
be that bold and that confidentand that awesome and I was like
, okay, that.
(08:00):
And when she said I want tomarry my best friend, I was like
, oh duh.
Anyway, adrian is like theultimate win for me.
Obviously, han, I stillremember the trip it was the
California trip where you andJenny started to connect because
she went back and forth withyou on the van.
That's right, at your command,that's right.
(08:21):
That was me kind of.
Well, we did have it, adrian,and I did have a talk about it,
because Adrian connected withJenny in New York and then when
we went to California, adrianhad mentioned like I think
Holland and Jenny would be athing.
I was like, okay, jenny, youhave to go with Holland back and
forth, driving everybody to theairport Y'all were playing
(08:43):
Cupid.
And it worked out.
It did I I.
I think there's something tothat like meaning I don't want
to say a pastor's role is toplay cupid, but yeah, sort of
like because we want to seegodly people flourish and so
when you see someone you reallylove and respect and are awesome
, like you're wanting to connectthem and, uh, bring them
(09:06):
together.
So you guys spent like 20 hourstogether.
Just, I think all you guys didwas drive people back and forth
from the airport.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, did a lot of driving together and uh, yeah, I
.
And then like, when I hadrealized like, man, I think I
love this girl, I want to marryher, I remember I called you and
I was like you know what shouldI do?
And you were like, well, haveyou told her yet?
And I was like no, and you werelike you should tell her.
(09:33):
And so I was like all right.
So then the next day I did, uh,I told we were on our way to
church and I told her in the caron the way to church.
We were like listening to aworship song and like having a
great deep conversation.
I told her I love you and herresponse was like I think it was
that sweet, awkward churchservice just sitting next to
(10:06):
each other in church the wholetime.
I'm just like what am Ithinking?
What did I do wrong?
Why did I say it right thenwhat?
Anyway?
She later said it back and youknow we had a good talk, but it
was just kind of put her on thespot right there on the way to
church she's not prepared.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Yeah, that was good.
Uh, wow, way to go.
Yeah, uh.
And then, um, yeah, I rememberwhen you got married that that
was back in 2012, right, 2012,.
Yeah, that was wild.
That was some good times.
That wedding was great, rightthere at Zilker Tanago Gardens,
correct?
Yeah, it was good stuff.
(10:37):
Well, okay, so let's talk aboutthe one line that I stole from
Tommy Nelson from his Song ofSolomon series, which I love,
tommy Nelson, and I love hispreaching on the Song of Solomon
, but I don't want to takeanything away from his preaching
on the Song of Solomon.
However, I felt like he likepreached whatever he wanted and
just use the song of Solomon inin passing.
(10:57):
But but one thing he did say itwas like the right truth, just
not from the right text anyway.
But the one thing I did loveabout what he said in in that
series was was he said you know,run towards Christ and then
look to your left and to yourright and see who's running with
you and that's probably someonethat you should marry or would
(11:18):
be the one that would be good todo life with, and I really
appreciated that, and so for me,I kind of had that gear, if
someone could, especially whenwe were doing ministry, like we
were back in the old days ofjust running and gunning,
traveling all over the countrysharing the gospel, doing insane
stuff with evangelism, missionwork, traveling all over the
country sharing the gospel,doing insane stuff with
evangelism and mission workAdrienne was able to hang with
(11:38):
that and she was fun and alwaysmade it fun, and so that for me
was like I want to find someonewho's pursuing Jesus in the same
intensity I guess is the rightway as I am, and I think that's
a huge win for obviously acouple, because sometimes I
think a lot of people getmarried and you have either the
(12:01):
guy sort of dragging the girl,which is actually probably
preferable, or what happens alot of times is the girl's
dragging the guy, which is notquite as preferable, like I,
come on, let's go run for jesus,and he's like no, I, I'm good
with just going to church everynow and then.
And again I get it.
People are at different spotsand different spaces, but man,
(12:22):
why not start from a place ofrunning towards Christ?
And you find that I think thehard thing that people have is
they don't know where to findChristians, and I'm like if you
just serve in the local church,like even in small churches,
like like you're going to findsomebody who's going to be there
(12:43):
, that will be a person that youwould want to marry Cause
anyway.
I think sometimes we just sortof abandon that, we go to hinge
or we go to whatever.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
And I will say it, it's hard.
At least it was for me, likedating before I met Lauren, and
I mean I was at a big church, abig Bible-believing church, and
then, like before that I was apart, like I was going to
another whatever, whatever.
And it's crazy how many girls Imet and dated that just had
(13:13):
like crazy beliefs.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Like these are girls that I'mmeeting in Christian young
adults groups, right, right.
And then I'll just ask justlike simple basic lead up
questions and they're just like,oh yeah, like I don't know if
the Holy spirit's God he'sprobably more like a feeling and
I'm just like what you know?
And it's like They've neverbeen taught, but still it's like
(13:34):
, well, yo, time after time, youknow.
So it's tough, you know, I can.
Still I see why people would belike, man, I've tried dating
and it's, and it's hard to finda Bible believing girl or or guy
or whatever.
But yeah, it's, it's the roleof the local church to train
them up, Right, right, to haveour young adults be like ready
for marriage, right right, right, like ready for marriage, Right
(13:55):
, right, right.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
And I think that's a struggle overall is that
sometimes the lost years is theyoung adult years or the single
again years where there's not aplace.
You don't feel like there's aplace for you, and I think
that's where you've got to besuper intentional with your time
to engage the church if theydon't have something specific
for, like a young adult ministry, so to speak.
(14:18):
Right, right, right.
Anyway, I think that's achallenge.
I think that was one of thecool things that when we came
here, holland led our youngadult ministry and it was really
fun and a lot of people gotmarried to our church from that.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah, did a lot of weddings out of that.
Yeah, it was great.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Okay, one of the things that All still together.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yeah, praise the Lord , praise God.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
That's a great caveat .
Speaker 1 (14:41):
I'm like it's a pretty good record and still in
church.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yeah, that is good for the most part, for the most
part.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
You know the ones I officiated.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Okay yeah.
Are you still like 100% on allthe people you've married?
100% so far, wow.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
How about you, chris, god in.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Christ.
I mean, it's not like there'ssome special way to do a
ceremony.
You know like listen, I'm justmore thankful.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
I won't go into who it was, but I remember there was
this picture of me and itwasn't reflective, I don't think
, but it was prophetic.
It wasn't reflective about howI felt about, um, the couple at
the time but there's this uh, itwas one of our uh elders took a
picture of me after the weddingwas over and I was like like
(15:33):
like no, and it was kind of likeI was.
I think it was probably more oflike it was a long week and I
was tired and I was like I'mglad that's over with, but like
there they are like kissing andI'm like, and prophetically,
they didn't make it anyway.
Wow, yeah, it was like kind ofsad anyway, that was very sad.
Yeah, it was very sad and I waslike what is the secret sauce?
(15:54):
And there was a lot of marriagecounseling that went into just
trying to save that one.
But I think that's what happensis you have people that aren't
running as hard as they can orthey have kind of where you were
going, mo, maybe a misdirected.
They haven't gotten a lot oftheir theology fixed before they
get married and they'reexpecting a lot of I don't know
(16:20):
issues to just go away, issuesto never come up or an
expectation of what marriage isgoing to do for me, as opposed
to I'm getting into this toserve my spouse and it's going
to be a grind and a hard workand I've got to have the heart
of.
I know in theory that I'mreally selfish and when that
reality hits me I'm going tohave to heart of.
I know in theory that I'mreally selfish and when that
reality hits me, I'm going tohave to work to be refined by
(16:40):
Christ.
I think that, for me, wasprobably the reality that hit
the hardest is, I don't think Irealized how selfish I was until
I got married and Adrienne wasreally good at helping, pointing
it out.
Nice, she would say stuff likeshe would say you know, I think
(17:04):
sometimes you think that I likeshould be like just jumping like
a gazelle in the fields of howhappy it is that, uh, I got to
marry you, but the reality isyou should be doing that about
how you get to be married to meand I was like, am I really like
that?
Yeah, I think I probably am.
I probably should change.
(17:24):
But she was the only one in myentire life that ever sort of
like called out my selfishness,called out like she was able to
do it in a really funny way, butalso in a loving way, which is
sort of a wild.
She has a really cool way ofdoing that.
But I think that's what's hardis that you have expectations
what marriage should be,marriage is going to be, and I
(17:45):
think this, my big challenge, isget married for people.
I get married younger.
I got married later, at 34, andI had a lot of habits, a lot of
, you know, kind of likeselfishness, sort of like
ingrained that I didn't evenrealize I had, and I was so
grateful that Adrian was able tohelp undo a lot of that,
(18:06):
because she was really groundedin who she is Like.
I think the one thing aboutAdrian is.
I mean, obviously she's refinedover time and is way more
graceful, but she's kind of whoshe is now, is kind of who she
was then and very, very directand anyway, what exactly what I
need.
I think that's how god designsmarriage.
(18:28):
I'm super grateful for that.
Um, but for you guys, what?
What would you say?
Like was there something aboutyour own selfishness that came
out after you got married?
Or you saw, you didn't realizethat you had?
Speaker 2 (18:40):
yeah, absolutely.
I think when you are used to,um, just being responsible for
yourself, you, you can get thisdelusion that you're you know
you're a lot more mature thanyou really are.
Then, when you move in withsomeone who notices things about
you that you've learned how toexcuse or justify over the years
, uh, I think that was for meLike I just I remember after
(19:02):
getting getting married and likelittle little things here and
there, um, that started to, um,uh, I don't know, add up and
stuff as in our first year ofmarriage, um, add up, it just
led to frustrations andarguments and things like that.
It was things that I had, likeI realized I had learned, like I
(19:23):
don't really have discipline orself-control over this area.
I've just learned how to excuseit and justify it for myself.
And then now I have anotherperson saying, like why do you
do this?
And so I don't know.
That first year was veryeye-opening for me.
But good, we had a great firstyear of marriage in a lot of
ways.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yeah and I think Adrienne assumed a lot better of
me in many ways and just nowshe's realizing that I have a
lot of insecurities that Ididn't realize I had, and she's
able to point them out, which isreally healthy and that's the
gift that keeps on giving isthat she's able to help grow me
in many ways, to point out andbe a great helper, to point out
all my failings, but no, in aserious way.
(20:01):
It actually is very helpful andI've grown a ton.
But what about this?
Let's go back to what we weretalking about earlier, about
godly community affirming theright relationship opportunity.
I did steal.
Your godly community willaffirm the right relationship
opportunity.
Community opportunity Okay,good.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, it didn't.
Your first point, your firstdraft didn't rhyme, and so I
felt like I needed to help out.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
You needed help out, so I appreciate that.
And then ChatGPT sealed it.
Yeah, chatgpt came around, good, but yeah, let's talk about
godly community, like how?
Let's just talk young adultsjust for a second, because I
feel like this is where thisgoes.
How are young adults supposedto be in community and have the
(20:46):
relationship affirmed, like howis that?
Speaker 3 (20:48):
supposed to happen.
I feel like you know thehealthiest, one of the
healthiest ways that I've seenit done is that the young adults
community comes out of the highschool ministry and so it's
even younger than that, right,and so that you have a guy and a
girl who are whatever, liketheir sophomore, junior, senior
year of high school, and thenthey go into whatever and then
(21:10):
the young adults community andthen from there, so that's like
one of the.
That's an awesome way.
You know what I mean.
It continues into young adultscommunity, but if you don't have
that previous senior year andat young adults man, that is
obviously amazing as well.
But yeah, to me it's like you'rejust hanging out as a group,
yeah, right, and you're able tolike, see, and somebody is able
(21:32):
to call certain things that youmight not be able to see or call
out or whatever.
I love this, the thing that yousaid you know if like, or
somebody that's maybe even olderor mature in the faith, and
they're asking you about yourboyfriend or girlfriend or
whatever he's like.
Oh, have you noticed the waythat they whatever, whatever,
right.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
The same pattern that you can have with yourself that
I was bringing up about how youexcuse and justify your own
shortcomings that a spouse willmaybe expose.
You can do that for someoneyou're dating as well, you learn
to just go.
Well, I'm going to excuse thator justify that.
You know well, he's not reallythat into church but he's really
great at these other things.
Right, but if, when communitysteps in, they go, what do you
(22:11):
mean?
He's, you know, not verycommitted to church, like why
not what's going on there?
And so being able to have, likeyou know, the others in this
poem and the song of Solomon isbringing in the community aspect
of other people who are sayingwe will exult and rejoice in you
.
Rightly, do they love you.
So there are people who areaffirming, who are saying, yep,
(22:31):
your desire for this personmakes sense.
This is a godly person.
We see it too.
It's not just you.
So, yeah, I think that'sfriends, church friends.
I think parents are a part ofthat.
If you have godly Christianparents and then, uh, and then
mentors, maybe like, uh,spiritual parents, in a sense,
like godly older men and women,um, yeah, so, like you know, you
(22:53):
were like that for Jenny and Ibeing able to bring you in and
be like do you see what I see?
You know, is this right?
And that's when you brought,had sat Jenny down in your
apartment and put the lamp onher.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Oh man, it was terrible.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Grilled her, Put a big spotlight on her and james
meyer and I go.
What do you really want withholland?
Speaker 2 (23:13):
she was like she stuck around through, you know,
but like we, everything we didtogether when we were dating, we
it was with friends, it was incommunity, we were, um, you know
, I was getting to know herfriends, she was getting to know
mine.
There was, I think, the wholelike secret boyfriend.
You know, like this, I'm datingthis guy but no, I haven't
brought him around church andall my parents don't know him
and no, that's just one of theunhealthiest.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yes, yeah, absolutely yeah, I think that I get
excited about relationships thatstart flourish in the church
and, and I think we all wantthat.
But what are the reasons whypeople?
Let's go back to that hidingaspect, because I do feel like
there's times where young adults, they'll fall off the map.
(23:57):
Yeah, they're on fire serving.
They meet a girl and then theydisappear.
They show up to church once amonth or once every now and then
what is that?
Is it?
I'm afraid they're going to sayno, I'm afraid they're going to
find out about my sexual sin.
What is the combo?
I'm sure, but what do you think?
It is primarily.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
When we were doing young adult ministry here, this
happened all the time, and itwas usually that, yeah, there
was sexual sin that broughtabout guilt, shame, fear of
people finding out, fear ofpeople judging, and so I'm just
going to disappear on my churchcommunity.
And there were some couples,though, who you know, took a
different approach and said, ok,we did sin in this way, but we
(24:41):
want to be accountable, we wantto repent, and you know those,
those couples ended up, you know, doing really well.
Those were some of themarriages we saw.
Some of the ones thatdisappeared because of
relationship stuff and sexualsin are not in the church at all
anymore.
Right, yeah, and that's it is.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
That's sad, but it's it's.
Ultimately, I think, the waythat you start is probably going
to be the way that you finish,and sometimes church was just a.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
This is just a way that I can meet someone.
More than this is somethingthat I'm really passionate about
.
I come to a Tuesday.
They were.
I mean, we had, we definitelyhad guys and girls who would
show up Tuesday nights, notbecause they love the Lord and
couldn't wait to hear what I waspreaching on that night Right,
but they just wanted to meetsomebody, and when they did,
they were gone after that.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Yeah, let's talk about that for a second.
So is that a negative thing?
Like because I think there's.
Like I mean obviously a personcoming just to look for a dude
although you know, find a godlywife or godly spouse is good but
(25:47):
I think it's important todiscern, like just because
they're at church doesn't makethem a christian.
Just in the same way, justbecause they're in a garage
doesn't make them a car, yep,and so I think don't just like
classic, right.
So I think we can't turn offour brains in terms of I do
think you have higher odds offinding a christian person in a
church rather than a bar,absolutely but yeah, I think
it's a good thing to search atthe same time.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
No, I love that people would meet you know and
go and date and get inrelationships on at our Tuesday
night young adult thing.
I love that.
What I was talking about waspeople who were faking a passion
for Jesus just to find arelationship.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Did you find people would fake a passion for Jesus?
Yes, let's talk about that.
I mean, how, how do you, howcould you spot someone faking a
passion for Jesus?
Speaker 2 (26:25):
I don't think you can look at someone and tell, but
you can watch patterns.
And so the pattern was I wouldcome Tuesday night, not
necessarily Sunday morning, sojust Tuesday nights, and I would
come as long as I see apotential of meeting someone
here.
And then what happened is, whenthey got into a relationship
(26:45):
they would disappear again.
No Tuesday nights, no Sundaymornings, no community group, no
texting back, and so I don'tknow.
We saw that fairly often.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Yeah, okay, so here's one that I thought was
interesting.
One of the last things I saidis like love should glow, not
feel like low, not feel likewhoa, and what I meant was like
not feel like low, not feel likewhoa.
And what I meant was I feellike there's a lot of couples
that are dating and they'regrinding it out and meaning
they're not even married.
They have all the problems of amarried couple with very few of
(27:16):
the benefits, and if they havebenefits, they feel guilty about
them.
So let's talk about have youseen couples date and just man,
it's time to cut it off.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Yeah, I think goes to .
I think the primaryresponsibility would be the man
(27:56):
lacking, lacking that vision,right.
But you know, the story youtold with Adrian is a great
example of like she wasn't goingto sit around for that you know
.
And so she was like hey, ifyou're not going to pursue me
and make this an officialrelationship, I'm out and I'm
going to find someone who will.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
And that woke you up?
Yeah, it did, totally did.
I was so grateful for that.
So let's talk about the loveshould glow, not feel like whoa,
in the sense that you've beendating for two or three years
have you felt like once youcross the line to sexual sin?
It's really hard and I'm notsaying it's impossible because I
don't want to create like adoom, like it's impossible.
(28:33):
However, but it's really hardto bring the relationship back
to a place of purity wherethere's excitement about being
with each other, because I think, once lines have been crossed,
there's a shame that's sort ofincorporated, even if you've
experienced forgiveness and andyou, you know we're not doing
that again, we, we haveaccountability.
(28:55):
But then there's a little Idon't know.
What I've seen is that there'sa struggle for couples, um, to
to like overlook uh I don't knowwhat the right word is for that
.
I guess overlook, uh becausethey now kind of see the person
as they would, as a marriedperson, and now they're, but
they're trying to work it out,but they're not married yet.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
You're, you're, you're in this weird, you know,
transactional relationship andyou've gotten out and you, yeah,
you've gotten out, yeah, yeah,you've done everything that a
married couple does right, andyou've been together as long as
a married couple has yes whenthe honeymoon period is over
Right.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Okay, thank you.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
That's exactly what I'm, and the whole point is,
once two, three years hit,you're supposed to go.
Oh, you know well, all right, Iguess we're going to work it
out Right?
And that's the beauty ofmarriage, Right, Easy to go.
I don't care how.
I feel about you or myself orwhatever.
(29:51):
I'm here to stay and no, that'sit.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
I think no, you're right, because at some point, no
matter how great they are,you're going to kind of get sick
of them at some point, right,yes, at some point.
Like they could be amazing.
They could be like MotherTeresa none right, yeah, okay,
good point, right, okay, goodpoint, all right.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
That analogy loses, it falls apart as kind as mother
trees, yeah, I think he's kindkind right.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Yeah, that, yeah, I wouldn't want to marry.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
It's okay keep going.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Okay, you lost my train anyway.
But I think what your point isis, like everybody has like
those after two or three yearsof dating.
It's now like you're marriedand if you've already
incorporated sex, yep, if, ifyou incorporated sex, you're
probably going to go get married, and then that I don't want to
say sex fixes everything.
However, it does help.
(30:43):
It's a thing, not a main thing,and it is when you have a holy
relationship that God isblessing, and the way that sex
draws you in with, uh, you knowyou're consummating the marriage
, you're looking at the sameperson.
This is God's design for you.
You're not.
God did not design two or threeyears of dating.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
I think we I don't know if I can, I don't want to
say I can say like that clearly,but it feels like I think the
bigger thing is that you evenjust way the way most people
think about relationships and,you know, is, like, am I still
attracted to the person, right,or then are we living on a
mission and building something?
Yeah, so the idea of even justlike separating, like marriage
(31:26):
and having children, as like areyou going to have children, is
that, you know, like do you wanta family, and that's like a
very modern idea, whereas likeoh, it was assumed like you're
going to get married, You'regoing to start having children
immediately and you're going tobuild a family, a household.
You're going to, you know do bea productive home together.
(31:47):
That's on a mission together.
And without that two to threeyears where your relationship is
essentially just a chore oftrying to like make something
work without a real direction orpurpose, sounds miserable.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Yeah, that's man.
You guys put that way better.
I should have had to.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Did y'all wait to have kids, or you had kids right
away after you got married?
Speaker 1 (32:06):
I didn't want to have kids until I was a pastor, so
we waited a year.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
A year, would you say you were still in that
honeymoon phase or you were outof it.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Okay, adrienne probably has a different
recollection.
I was always just having ablast because it was like the
greatest.
She was not a big fan of allthe traveling, I later found out
.
I felt like we were living on aconstant honeymoon because we
were in a different city everyweek and we were traveling.
(32:37):
I was speaking at things andshe got to do t-shirt sales.
What else would she want?
I found out that she was not abig fan of the t-shirt sales.
I could have guessed that Iloved it, I was having a blast.
But then when I became a pastor, I was like I feel like hey,
(32:58):
we're at a place financially.
We weren't raising support.
It was like a I have a actualjob and this is something that
I'm going to be at for the next20 to 30, 40 years.
And so, immediately upon uh, itwas about a year in yeah, like
hey, let's start trying forfamily okay, so the honeymoon
phase ended about the same timethat kids came would you say
(33:22):
yeah, yeah it wasn't before foryou?
No, for me it wasn't.
I was okay, I, I was enjoyingthat I and I this might have
been I had my head in the clouds, just living.
You know how like there's, uh,when a woman comes up, she's
like I'm just don't feel arelational connection.
He's like what are you talkingabout?
We've been like, yeah, we'regood.
Yeah, like I thought we weredoing great.
What are you talking about?
(33:42):
Yeah, and I was like this isthe best life anyone could ever
have.
Wow, how amazing is this.
Whereas I think for Adrienne,she put a lot of you know, she,
she was, I was 34.
(34:02):
She was 24 at the on thewedding day.
Now she would like to say itwas, we were only nine years and
, you know, four months apart.
But, uh, I like to point outthere was a 10 year gap when I
got married.
Anyway, she, she was more like,had expectation that it would
be like this amazing, like super, like always, like feeling all
the things, and I was like thisis the best.
(34:23):
I have my best friend, I'mhanging out with her every day.
We could do fun things all thetime, every night, state night.
How awesome is this?
Anyways, just differentexpectations for different the
age gap, I think.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
Provided that, yeah, um anyway I don't know where
we're going with all that, butyeah, but I enjoyed it.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
So what about you?
When?
When would you guys?
Speaker 3 (34:40):
have.
Yeah, I feel like, I feel likefor us, for me, the honeymoon
period wasn't over until we hadkids.
Oh yeah, and so it came at thesame time, yeah, and so there's
this recognition of just like ohman, this is the first time I'm
feeling this kind of way aboutmy spouse, and there's a kid in
the mix, right, and so that'slike something.
I think that's beautiful,because it's kind of wild how
(35:02):
God designed it, like.
I remember going like well, I'mnot going anywhere.
Yeah, I've got a wife and I'vegot a kid, and I don't care how
I feel.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
My feelings will learn to follow the reality.
That needs to happen and theydid, and they absolutely did.
You know what I mean.
You know what I mean.
It's like I remember what'sthat dude who turned into a
chick, the famous athlete.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Caitlyn.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Jenner, right?
What's his name?
Bruce Jenner?
Bruce Jenner, right.
He said something about like,oh, like, I didn't come out for
so long because I had a wife andkids, and it's like what do you
know?
Like the family unit meantsomething, meant something even
though you're not a christian,and it was good pressure on you.
Yeah, as a man, oh, wow, I lovethe way you put that, but when
(35:44):
you're not a christian, it's allthe whatever, it's what right?
Speaker 1 (35:46):
so anyways I love that, yeah, yeah.
How about you?
When did you guys start havingchildren?
Was it yeah, a?
Speaker 2 (35:52):
couple of years.
We got right around one yearfor us.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Yeah, it was about one year.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Yeah, got pregnant with Owen and yeah, so she was
like 22 and I was like 26, Ithink.
So, yeah, got started early andit's been great.
It has been great.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
All right, hey, thanks so much for watching.
If you got any questions, textthem at 737-231-0605 or go to
pastorplekcom and leave a notefor us there.
We'd love to hear from you.
We're talking currently on theSong of Solomon.
We're talking sex.
We're talking relationships.
We're talking marriage.
If you want to join in thatconversation, we would love to
answer your question.
(36:32):
Thanks so much for watchingFrom our house to yours.
Have an awesome week.
and welcome back to pastor plex podcast.
I'm your host, pastor plec, andjoining me in studios none
other than muhammad ali, pastorof our students and associate
pastor here at wells branchcommunity church.
How you doing good?
How are you?
I'm awesome and pastor hollandgreg lead pastor there at east
side community church.
That's on the east side of aust.
Very true, that is where it is.
(00:27):
Thanks, chris.
Yeah, yeah, glad to have you.
How is the east side?
Is it still?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
there, still there, god's doing great things,
wonderful, wonderful things.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Well, now we had this past week.
What did you guys preach thereat Eastside?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
We just started a series in the book of Haggai
Short series, vision seriesgoing to spend a couple weeks
covering Haggai.
Did you tell them to?
Speaker 1 (00:49):
stop working on their houses and start working on the
church.
Essentially, that's good.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
That's good Got to get your priorities straight.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Work on your house, but do the Lord's work first,
lord's work first.
I appreciate that.
Now we're in the Song ofSolomon, which we had to tell
all the parents to make surethey were ready for this and a
lot more.
Our children's ministry was atits highest level in a long,
long time, so there were a lotof us that were not ready for
(01:17):
that conversation and a lot thatjust jumped into it and said
let's go, and I reallyappreciated that.
So we're talking about sex, sex.
We're talking about the song ofsolemn, we're talking about
marriage, and song of solemnstarts off with and this is my
view on this, which is kind offun uh, in, when we start off,
let him kiss me with the kissesof his mouth, for your love is
better than wine.
(01:37):
Your anointing oils arefragrant.
Your name is oil poured out.
Therefore, virgins, love, youdraw me after you, let us run.
The king has brought me intohis chambers to me.
I.
I took that as it was thewedding night and she's
remembering the wedding nightand is excited about it.
Before she has a flashback toprior to the wedding night, my
view, any thoughts on what wasyour view on those first four
(02:01):
verses?
Yeah, yeah, agree, oh, cool, uh, and you cause.
You preach this to your church,maybe three or four years ago.
You know he's already done allthat.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
And we, we preach through it at uh, the young, the
young adult group, like 10years ago way back in the day,
here at Wells branch.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
That's right so uh, that's right, so yeah, so a lot
of people have different takeson the Song of Solomon.
There is the allegory take,which has been honestly
Christian tradition for about1800 years, was allegory.
It was either, or even beforethat let's just go 5,000 years
it was Yahweh's covenantal lovewith Israel and then when
(02:43):
Christians came along, it wasChrist's covenantal love with
the church.
Some middle-aged mystics were.
It was like Christ's love withthe individual.
And then back to the reformerswent, christ's love for the
church, and so everybody for themost part kind of kept that as
an allegory.
And then till some, really thelast 200 years, bible scholars
(03:06):
go like man it.
It's tough to sell the twobreasts as being the old and new
testament or like, um, someallegorical view only.
And I think so.
There's allegory allegory.
There's a literal view of thesong of solomon that is just
strictly a God's delight in thesexual experience of a husband
(03:27):
and a wife and him cheering iton as his design.
And then the one I've reallygrown to appreciate is the
typological view of where it is.
You're looking at Christ's lovefor his church, or covenantal
love of God and for his people,and then also a love between a
man and a woman that God made,designed, and how sex is to be
(03:50):
enjoyed as something that wasmade for pleasure, not simply
only for procreation.
Procreation is probably aprimary, but a huge part of
God's design for sex was that wewould enjoy it, and so I think
that's part of his obviously,design.
Mo, have you heard any otherviews on that or any other sort
of ways to approach the songSolomon?
Speaker 3 (04:14):
I don't think so.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Yeah, those are, those are pretty much.
It, that's pretty much it.
Yeah, and I think that one ofthe things that I kind of went
from on this is that there's acouple of things to look at.
Is a husband quality or somespousal quality, but first the
husband quality was, uh, havinga good name and then pursuing a
woman who wanted the same.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
How, like, when you just thinking back to Lauren,
like, like, talk to me aboutlike your, uh, cause you were in
a young adult ministry inCalifornia and and talk to me
about like your, because youwere in a young adult ministry
in California and talk to meabout like that perspective of
being a person that was becauseyou were like pastoring really,
or at least teaching and doingyoung adult ministry back then
(04:57):
when you met Lauren.
Yeah, so talk to us about, like, the good name aspect for you
and how that played into it.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Man, it was kind of wild because I feel so.
I was the pastor of theministry and this was I started
that right when COVID hit.
Germany's restriction for COVIDwas you can have up to 250
(05:27):
people at a gathering, as longas it was an outdoor space.
And I figured, man, this is atough transition, ain't nobody
going to show up?
And we went from 30 people toabout 180 people in about four
months.
Wow, to about 180 people inabout four months.
Wow, and it's, I mean sure, likethe preaching and the worship
(05:48):
was what it's a bunch of peoplein their early twenties that
were alone, yeah, starving, thatwere starving for community.
So I give all of the credit tothe ability in the people in our
community to be able to forgefriendships, and that was
happening, yeah.
And then Lauren comes in and Ialready have like friendships
(06:11):
with some of the people therefor like years, yeah, yeah, yeah
.
And so I really like the factthat you talked about here in
the text where it says theothers and so like you're having
this not isolated and like, oh,who's your girlfriend, by the
way, and whatever it's likeeverybody knows everybody.
When you're hanging out, you'reall together, and so you're
(06:32):
getting to know somebody, yes,in the context, like
individually, but you're gettingto know somebody in the context
of, like, how do they talk toother people, right, how are
they around, not just me, butaround everyone else?
And so to me, like havingexperienced that, yes, one, I
mean, obviously, like, as apastor, you have to be careful
in pursuing a woman within yourministry, right?
So that's what I was reallyreally careful about.
(06:54):
But as soon as I recognized like, oh man, she's great, she loves
the Lord, she, whatever, like,I went for it.
And in my mind as soon as I did, I was like I, I want to marry
you, yeah, right, and it byGod's, by God's grace, it all
worked out, um, but, yeah, so,like pursuing and having to me
like good friends, yeah, cause,to me, if you don't know how to
(07:15):
have friends, you, you don'thave any business trying to
pursue someone, right, you don'teven know how to hold a
friendship, right, right, andhow much more is a marriage?
So that's kind of how it was.
I like the way you put that.
Speaking about that, I was justlike, yes, I love how you
brought out, kind of like thething that you had with adrian,
yeah, where y'all were runningand she's just like you know,
I'm out, I'm out, or like let'sdefine the relationship type of
(07:37):
thing, and if you're going topursue me, pursue me.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah, I just that's bold, she, she was bold, I mean
well obviously.
Yeah, you know Adrian for morethan three seconds and that,
honestly, was the thing that waslike I have never heard a woman
be that bold and that confidentand that awesome and I was like
, okay, that.
(08:00):
And when she said I want tomarry my best friend, I was like
, oh duh.
Anyway, adrian is like theultimate win for me.
Obviously, han, I stillremember the trip it was the
California trip where you andJenny started to connect because
she went back and forth withyou on the van.
That's right, at your command,that's right.
(08:21):
That was me kind of.
Well, we did have it, adrian,and I did have a talk about it,
because Adrian connected withJenny in New York and then when
we went to California, adrianhad mentioned like I think
Holland and Jenny would be athing.
I was like, okay, jenny, youhave to go with Holland back and
forth, driving everybody to theairport Y'all were playing
(08:43):
Cupid.
And it worked out.
It did I I.
I think there's something tothat like meaning I don't want
to say a pastor's role is toplay cupid, but yeah, sort of
like because we want to seegodly people flourish and so
when you see someone you reallylove and respect and are awesome
, like you're wanting to connectthem and, uh, bring them
(09:06):
together.
So you guys spent like 20 hourstogether.
Just, I think all you guys didwas drive people back and forth
from the airport.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, did a lot of driving together and uh, yeah, I
.
And then like, when I hadrealized like, man, I think I
love this girl, I want to marryher, I remember I called you and
I was like you know what shouldI do?
And you were like, well, haveyou told her yet?
And I was like no, and you werelike you should tell her.
(09:33):
And so I was like all right.
So then the next day I did, uh,I told we were on our way to
church and I told her in the caron the way to church.
We were like listening to aworship song and like having a
great deep conversation.
I told her I love you and herresponse was like I think it was
that sweet, awkward churchservice just sitting next to
(10:06):
each other in church the wholetime.
I'm just like what am Ithinking?
What did I do wrong?
Why did I say it right thenwhat?
Anyway?
She later said it back and youknow we had a good talk, but it
was just kind of put her on thespot right there on the way to
church she's not prepared.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Yeah, that was good.
Uh, wow, way to go.
Yeah, uh.
And then, um, yeah, I rememberwhen you got married that that
was back in 2012, right, 2012,.
Yeah, that was wild.
That was some good times.
That wedding was great, rightthere at Zilker Tanago Gardens,
correct?
Yeah, it was good stuff.
(10:37):
Well, okay, so let's talk aboutthe one line that I stole from
Tommy Nelson from his Song ofSolomon series, which I love,
tommy Nelson, and I love hispreaching on the Song of Solomon
, but I don't want to takeanything away from his preaching
on the Song of Solomon.
However, I felt like he likepreached whatever he wanted and
just use the song of Solomon inin passing.
(10:57):
But but one thing he did say itwas like the right truth, just
not from the right text anyway.
But the one thing I did loveabout what he said in in that
series was was he said you know,run towards Christ and then
look to your left and to yourright and see who's running with
you and that's probably someonethat you should marry or would
(11:18):
be the one that would be good todo life with, and I really
appreciated that, and so for me,I kind of had that gear, if
someone could, especially whenwe were doing ministry, like we
were back in the old days ofjust running and gunning,
traveling all over the countrysharing the gospel, doing insane
stuff with evangelism, missionwork, traveling all over the
country sharing the gospel,doing insane stuff with
evangelism and mission workAdrienne was able to hang with
(11:38):
that and she was fun and alwaysmade it fun, and so that for me
was like I want to find someonewho's pursuing Jesus in the same
intensity I guess is the rightway as I am, and I think that's
a huge win for obviously acouple, because sometimes I
think a lot of people getmarried and you have either the
(12:01):
guy sort of dragging the girl,which is actually probably
preferable, or what happens alot of times is the girl's
dragging the guy, which is notquite as preferable, like I,
come on, let's go run for jesus,and he's like no, I, I'm good
with just going to church everynow and then.
And again I get it.
People are at different spotsand different spaces, but man,
(12:22):
why not start from a place ofrunning towards Christ?
And you find that I think thehard thing that people have is
they don't know where to findChristians, and I'm like if you
just serve in the local church,like even in small churches,
like like you're going to findsomebody who's going to be there
(12:43):
, that will be a person that youwould want to marry Cause
anyway.
I think sometimes we just sortof abandon that, we go to hinge
or we go to whatever.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
And I will say it, it's hard.
At least it was for me, likedating before I met Lauren, and
I mean I was at a big church, abig Bible-believing church, and
then, like before that I was apart, like I was going to
another whatever, whatever.
And it's crazy how many girls Imet and dated that just had
(13:13):
like crazy beliefs.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Like these are girls that I'mmeeting in Christian young
adults groups, right, right.
And then I'll just ask justlike simple basic lead up
questions and they're just like,oh yeah, like I don't know if
the Holy spirit's God he'sprobably more like a feeling and
I'm just like what you know?
And it's like They've neverbeen taught, but still it's like
(13:34):
, well, yo, time after time, youknow.
So it's tough, you know, I can.
Still I see why people would belike, man, I've tried dating
and it's, and it's hard to finda Bible believing girl or or guy
or whatever.
But yeah, it's, it's the roleof the local church to train
them up, Right, right, to haveour young adults be like ready
for marriage, right right, right, like ready for marriage, Right
(13:55):
, right, right.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
And I think that's a struggle overall is that
sometimes the lost years is theyoung adult years or the single
again years where there's not aplace.
You don't feel like there's aplace for you, and I think
that's where you've got to besuper intentional with your time
to engage the church if theydon't have something specific
for, like a young adult ministry, so to speak.
(14:18):
Right, right, right.
Anyway, I think that's achallenge.
I think that was one of thecool things that when we came
here, holland led our youngadult ministry and it was really
fun and a lot of people gotmarried to our church from that.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah, did a lot of weddings out of that.
Yeah, it was great.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Okay, one of the things that All still together.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yeah, praise the Lord , praise God.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
That's a great caveat .
Speaker 1 (14:41):
I'm like it's a pretty good record and still in
church.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yeah, that is good for the most part, for the most
part.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
You know the ones I officiated.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Okay yeah.
Are you still like 100% on allthe people you've married?
100% so far, wow.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
How about you, chris, god in.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Christ.
I mean, it's not like there'ssome special way to do a
ceremony.
You know like listen, I'm justmore thankful.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
I won't go into who it was, but I remember there was
this picture of me and itwasn't reflective, I don't think
, but it was prophetic.
It wasn't reflective about howI felt about, um, the couple at
the time but there's this uh, itwas one of our uh elders took a
picture of me after the weddingwas over and I was like like
(15:33):
like no, and it was kind of likeI was.
I think it was probably more oflike it was a long week and I
was tired and I was like I'mglad that's over with, but like
there they are like kissing andI'm like, and prophetically,
they didn't make it anyway.
Wow, yeah, it was like kind ofsad anyway, that was very sad.
Yeah, it was very sad and I waslike what is the secret sauce?
(15:54):
And there was a lot of marriagecounseling that went into just
trying to save that one.
But I think that's what happensis you have people that aren't
running as hard as they can orthey have kind of where you were
going, mo, maybe a misdirected.
They haven't gotten a lot oftheir theology fixed before they
get married and they'reexpecting a lot of I don't know
(16:20):
issues to just go away, issuesto never come up or an
expectation of what marriage isgoing to do for me, as opposed
to I'm getting into this toserve my spouse and it's going
to be a grind and a hard workand I've got to have the heart
of.
I know in theory that I'mreally selfish and when that
reality hits me I'm going tohave to heart of.
I know in theory that I'mreally selfish and when that
reality hits me, I'm going tohave to work to be refined by
(16:40):
Christ.
I think that, for me, wasprobably the reality that hit
the hardest is, I don't think Irealized how selfish I was until
I got married and Adrienne wasreally good at helping, pointing
it out.
Nice, she would say stuff likeshe would say you know, I think
(17:04):
sometimes you think that I likeshould be like just jumping like
a gazelle in the fields of howhappy it is that, uh, I got to
marry you, but the reality isyou should be doing that about
how you get to be married to meand I was like, am I really like
that?
Yeah, I think I probably am.
I probably should change.
(17:24):
But she was the only one in myentire life that ever sort of
like called out my selfishness,called out like she was able to
do it in a really funny way, butalso in a loving way, which is
sort of a wild.
She has a really cool way ofdoing that.
But I think that's what's hardis that you have expectations
what marriage should be,marriage is going to be, and I
(17:45):
think this, my big challenge, isget married for people.
I get married younger.
I got married later, at 34, andI had a lot of habits, a lot of
, you know, kind of likeselfishness, sort of like
ingrained that I didn't evenrealize I had, and I was so
grateful that Adrian was able tohelp undo a lot of that,
(18:06):
because she was really groundedin who she is Like.
I think the one thing aboutAdrian is.
I mean, obviously she's refinedover time and is way more
graceful, but she's kind of whoshe is now, is kind of who she
was then and very, very directand anyway, what exactly what I
need.
I think that's how god designsmarriage.
(18:28):
I'm super grateful for that.
Um, but for you guys, what?
What would you say?
Like was there something aboutyour own selfishness that came
out after you got married?
Or you saw, you didn't realizethat you had?
Speaker 2 (18:40):
yeah, absolutely.
I think when you are used to,um, just being responsible for
yourself, you, you can get thisdelusion that you're you know
you're a lot more mature thanyou really are.
Then, when you move in withsomeone who notices things about
you that you've learned how toexcuse or justify over the years
, uh, I think that was for meLike I just I remember after
(19:02):
getting getting married and likelittle little things here and
there, um, that started to, um,uh, I don't know, add up and
stuff as in our first year ofmarriage, um, add up, it just
led to frustrations andarguments and things like that.
It was things that I had, likeI realized I had learned, like I
(19:23):
don't really have discipline orself-control over this area.
I've just learned how to excuseit and justify it for myself.
And then now I have anotherperson saying, like why do you
do this?
And so I don't know.
That first year was veryeye-opening for me.
But good, we had a great firstyear of marriage in a lot of
ways.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yeah and I think Adrienne assumed a lot better of
me in many ways and just nowshe's realizing that I have a
lot of insecurities that Ididn't realize I had, and she's
able to point them out, which isreally healthy and that's the
gift that keeps on giving isthat she's able to help grow me
in many ways, to point out andbe a great helper, to point out
all my failings, but no, in aserious way.
(20:01):
It actually is very helpful andI've grown a ton.
But what about this?
Let's go back to what we weretalking about earlier, about
godly community affirming theright relationship opportunity.
I did steal.
Your godly community willaffirm the right relationship
opportunity.
Community opportunity Okay,good.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, it didn't.
Your first point, your firstdraft didn't rhyme, and so I
felt like I needed to help out.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
You needed help out, so I appreciate that.
And then ChatGPT sealed it.
Yeah, chatgpt came around, good, but yeah, let's talk about
godly community, like how?
Let's just talk young adultsjust for a second, because I
feel like this is where thisgoes.
How are young adults supposedto be in community and have the
(20:46):
relationship affirmed, like howis that?
Speaker 3 (20:48):
supposed to happen.
I feel like you know thehealthiest, one of the
healthiest ways that I've seenit done is that the young adults
community comes out of the highschool ministry and so it's
even younger than that, right,and so that you have a guy and a
girl who are whatever, liketheir sophomore, junior, senior
year of high school, and thenthey go into whatever and then
(21:10):
the young adults community andthen from there, so that's like
one of the.
That's an awesome way.
You know what I mean.
It continues into young adultscommunity, but if you don't have
that previous senior year andat young adults man, that is
obviously amazing as well.
But yeah, to me it's like you'rejust hanging out as a group,
yeah, right, and you're able tolike, see, and somebody is able
(21:32):
to call certain things that youmight not be able to see or call
out or whatever.
I love this, the thing that yousaid you know if like, or
somebody that's maybe even olderor mature in the faith, and
they're asking you about yourboyfriend or girlfriend or
whatever he's like.
Oh, have you noticed the waythat they whatever, whatever,
right.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
The same pattern that you can have with yourself that
I was bringing up about how youexcuse and justify your own
shortcomings that a spouse willmaybe expose.
You can do that for someoneyou're dating as well, you learn
to just go.
Well, I'm going to excuse thator justify that.
You know well, he's not reallythat into church but he's really
great at these other things.
Right, but if, when communitysteps in, they go, what do you
(22:11):
mean?
He's, you know, not verycommitted to church, like why
not what's going on there?
And so being able to have, likeyou know, the others in this
poem and the song of Solomon isbringing in the community aspect
of other people who are sayingwe will exult and rejoice in you
.
Rightly, do they love you.
So there are people who areaffirming, who are saying, yep,
(22:31):
your desire for this personmakes sense.
This is a godly person.
We see it too.
It's not just you.
So, yeah, I think that'sfriends, church friends.
I think parents are a part ofthat.
If you have godly Christianparents and then, uh, and then
mentors, maybe like, uh,spiritual parents, in a sense,
like godly older men and women,um, yeah, so, like you know, you
(22:53):
were like that for Jenny and Ibeing able to bring you in and
be like do you see what I see?
You know, is this right?
And that's when you brought,had sat Jenny down in your
apartment and put the lamp onher.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Oh man, it was terrible.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Grilled her, Put a big spotlight on her and james
meyer and I go.
What do you really want withholland?
Speaker 2 (23:13):
she was like she stuck around through, you know,
but like we, everything we didtogether when we were dating, we
it was with friends, it was incommunity, we were, um, you know
, I was getting to know herfriends, she was getting to know
mine.
There was, I think, the wholelike secret boyfriend.
You know, like this, I'm datingthis guy but no, I haven't
brought him around church andall my parents don't know him
and no, that's just one of theunhealthiest.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yes, yeah, absolutely yeah, I think that I get
excited about relationships thatstart flourish in the church
and, and I think we all wantthat.
But what are the reasons whypeople?
Let's go back to that hidingaspect, because I do feel like
there's times where young adults, they'll fall off the map.
(23:57):
Yeah, they're on fire serving.
They meet a girl and then theydisappear.
They show up to church once amonth or once every now and then
what is that?
Is it?
I'm afraid they're going to sayno, I'm afraid they're going to
find out about my sexual sin.
What is the combo?
I'm sure, but what do you think?
It is primarily.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
When we were doing young adult ministry here, this
happened all the time, and itwas usually that, yeah, there
was sexual sin that broughtabout guilt, shame, fear of
people finding out, fear ofpeople judging, and so I'm just
going to disappear on my churchcommunity.
And there were some couples,though, who you know, took a
different approach and said, ok,we did sin in this way, but we
(24:41):
want to be accountable, we wantto repent, and you know those,
those couples ended up, you know, doing really well.
Those were some of themarriages we saw.
Some of the ones thatdisappeared because of
relationship stuff and sexualsin are not in the church at all
anymore.
Right, yeah, and that's it is.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
That's sad, but it's it's.
Ultimately, I think, the waythat you start is probably going
to be the way that you finish,and sometimes church was just a.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
This is just a way that I can meet someone.
More than this is somethingthat I'm really passionate about
.
I come to a Tuesday.
They were.
I mean, we had, we definitelyhad guys and girls who would
show up Tuesday nights, notbecause they love the Lord and
couldn't wait to hear what I waspreaching on that night Right,
but they just wanted to meetsomebody, and when they did,
they were gone after that.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Yeah, let's talk about that for a second.
So is that a negative thing?
Like because I think there's.
Like I mean obviously a personcoming just to look for a dude
although you know, find a godlywife or godly spouse is good but
(25:47):
I think it's important todiscern, like just because
they're at church doesn't makethem a christian.
Just in the same way, justbecause they're in a garage
doesn't make them a car, yep,and so I think don't just like
classic, right.
So I think we can't turn offour brains in terms of I do
think you have higher odds offinding a christian person in a
church rather than a bar,absolutely but yeah, I think
it's a good thing to search atthe same time.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
No, I love that people would meet you know and
go and date and get inrelationships on at our Tuesday
night young adult thing.
I love that.
What I was talking about waspeople who were faking a passion
for Jesus just to find arelationship.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Did you find people would fake a passion for Jesus?
Yes, let's talk about that.
I mean, how, how do you, howcould you spot someone faking a
passion for Jesus?
Speaker 2 (26:25):
I don't think you can look at someone and tell, but
you can watch patterns.
And so the pattern was I wouldcome Tuesday night, not
necessarily Sunday morning, sojust Tuesday nights, and I would
come as long as I see apotential of meeting someone
here.
And then what happened is, whenthey got into a relationship
(26:45):
they would disappear again.
No Tuesday nights, no Sundaymornings, no community group, no
texting back, and so I don'tknow.
We saw that fairly often.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Yeah, okay, so here's one that I thought was
interesting.
One of the last things I saidis like love should glow, not
feel like low, not feel likewhoa, and what I meant was like
not feel like low, not feel likewhoa.
And what I meant was I feellike there's a lot of couples
that are dating and they'regrinding it out and meaning
they're not even married.
They have all the problems of amarried couple with very few of
(27:16):
the benefits, and if they havebenefits, they feel guilty about
them.
So let's talk about have youseen couples date and just man,
it's time to cut it off.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Yeah, I think goes to .
I think the primaryresponsibility would be the man
(27:56):
lacking, lacking that vision,right.
But you know, the story youtold with Adrian is a great
example of like she wasn't goingto sit around for that you know
.
And so she was like hey, ifyou're not going to pursue me
and make this an officialrelationship, I'm out and I'm
going to find someone who will.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
And that woke you up?
Yeah, it did, totally did.
I was so grateful for that.
So let's talk about the loveshould glow, not feel like whoa,
in the sense that you've beendating for two or three years
have you felt like once youcross the line to sexual sin?
It's really hard and I'm notsaying it's impossible because I
don't want to create like adoom, like it's impossible.
(28:33):
However, but it's really hardto bring the relationship back
to a place of purity wherethere's excitement about being
with each other, because I think, once lines have been crossed,
there's a shame that's sort ofincorporated, even if you've
experienced forgiveness and andyou, you know we're not doing
that again, we, we haveaccountability.
(28:55):
But then there's a little Idon't know.
What I've seen is that there'sa struggle for couples, um, to
to like overlook uh I don't knowwhat the right word is for that
.
I guess overlook, uh becausethey now kind of see the person
as they would, as a marriedperson, and now they're, but
they're trying to work it out,but they're not married yet.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
You're, you're, you're in this weird, you know,
transactional relationship andyou've gotten out and you, yeah,
you've gotten out, yeah, yeah,you've done everything that a
married couple does right, andyou've been together as long as
a married couple has yes whenthe honeymoon period is over
Right.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Okay, thank you.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
That's exactly what I'm, and the whole point is,
once two, three years hit,you're supposed to go.
Oh, you know well, all right, Iguess we're going to work it
out Right?
And that's the beauty ofmarriage, Right, Easy to go.
I don't care how.
I feel about you or myself orwhatever.
(29:51):
I'm here to stay and no, that'sit.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
I think no, you're right, because at some point, no
matter how great they are,you're going to kind of get sick
of them at some point, right,yes, at some point.
Like they could be amazing.
They could be like MotherTeresa none right, yeah, okay,
good point, right, okay, goodpoint, all right.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
That analogy loses, it falls apart as kind as mother
trees, yeah, I think he's kindkind right.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Yeah, that, yeah, I wouldn't want to marry.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
It's okay keep going.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Okay, you lost my train anyway.
But I think what your point isis, like everybody has like
those after two or three yearsof dating.
It's now like you're marriedand if you've already
incorporated sex, yep, if, ifyou incorporated sex, you're
probably going to go get married, and then that I don't want to
say sex fixes everything.
However, it does help.
(30:43):
It's a thing, not a main thing,and it is when you have a holy
relationship that God isblessing, and the way that sex
draws you in with, uh, you knowyou're consummating the marriage
, you're looking at the sameperson.
This is God's design for you.
You're not.
God did not design two or threeyears of dating.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
I think we I don't know if I can, I don't want to
say I can say like that clearly,but it feels like I think the
bigger thing is that you evenjust way the way most people
think about relationships and,you know, is, like, am I still
attracted to the person, right,or then are we living on a
mission and building something?
Yeah, so the idea of even justlike separating, like marriage
(31:26):
and having children, as like areyou going to have children, is
that, you know, like do you wanta family, and that's like a
very modern idea, whereas likeoh, it was assumed like you're
going to get married, You'regoing to start having children
immediately and you're going tobuild a family, a household.
You're going to, you know do bea productive home together.
(31:47):
That's on a mission together.
And without that two to threeyears where your relationship is
essentially just a chore oftrying to like make something
work without a real direction orpurpose, sounds miserable.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Yeah, that's man.
You guys put that way better.
I should have had to.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Did y'all wait to have kids, or you had kids right
away after you got married?
Speaker 1 (32:06):
I didn't want to have kids until I was a pastor, so
we waited a year.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
A year, would you say you were still in that
honeymoon phase or you were outof it.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Okay, adrienne probably has a different
recollection.
I was always just having ablast because it was like the
greatest.
She was not a big fan of allthe traveling, I later found out
.
I felt like we were living on aconstant honeymoon because we
were in a different city everyweek and we were traveling.
(32:37):
I was speaking at things andshe got to do t-shirt sales.
What else would she want?
I found out that she was not abig fan of the t-shirt sales.
I could have guessed that Iloved it, I was having a blast.
But then when I became a pastor, I was like I feel like hey,
(32:58):
we're at a place financially.
We weren't raising support.
It was like a I have a actualjob and this is something that
I'm going to be at for the next20 to 30, 40 years.
And so, immediately upon uh, itwas about a year in yeah, like
hey, let's start trying forfamily okay, so the honeymoon
phase ended about the same timethat kids came would you say
(33:22):
yeah, yeah it wasn't before foryou?
No, for me it wasn't.
I was okay, I, I was enjoyingthat I and I this might have
been I had my head in the clouds, just living.
You know how like there's, uh,when a woman comes up, she's
like I'm just don't feel arelational connection.
He's like what are you talkingabout?
We've been like, yeah, we'regood.
Yeah, like I thought we weredoing great.
What are you talking about?
(33:42):
Yeah, and I was like this isthe best life anyone could ever
have.
Wow, how amazing is this.
Whereas I think for Adrienne,she put a lot of you know, she,
she was, I was 34.
(34:02):
She was 24 at the on thewedding day.
Now she would like to say itwas, we were only nine years and
, you know, four months apart.
But, uh, I like to point outthere was a 10 year gap when I
got married.
Anyway, she, she was more like,had expectation that it would
be like this amazing, like super, like always, like feeling all
the things, and I was like thisis the best.
(34:23):
I have my best friend, I'mhanging out with her every day.
We could do fun things all thetime, every night, state night.
How awesome is this?
Anyways, just differentexpectations for different the
age gap, I think.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
Provided that, yeah, um anyway I don't know where
we're going with all that, butyeah, but I enjoyed it.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
So what about you?
When?
When would you guys?
Speaker 3 (34:40):
have.
Yeah, I feel like, I feel likefor us, for me, the honeymoon
period wasn't over until we hadkids.
Oh yeah, and so it came at thesame time, yeah, and so there's
this recognition of just like ohman, this is the first time I'm
feeling this kind of way aboutmy spouse, and there's a kid in
the mix, right, and so that'slike something.
I think that's beautiful,because it's kind of wild how
(35:02):
God designed it, like.
I remember going like well, I'mnot going anywhere.
Yeah, I've got a wife and I'vegot a kid, and I don't care how
I feel.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
My feelings will learn to follow the reality.
That needs to happen and theydid, and they absolutely did.
You know what I mean.
You know what I mean.
It's like I remember what'sthat dude who turned into a
chick, the famous athlete.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Caitlyn.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Jenner, right?
What's his name?
Bruce Jenner?
Bruce Jenner, right.
He said something about like,oh, like, I didn't come out for
so long because I had a wife andkids, and it's like what do you
know?
Like the family unit meantsomething, meant something even
though you're not a christian,and it was good pressure on you.
Yeah, as a man, oh, wow, I lovethe way you put that, but when
(35:44):
you're not a christian, it's allthe whatever, it's what right?
Speaker 1 (35:46):
so anyways I love that, yeah, yeah.
How about you?
When did you guys start havingchildren?
Was it yeah, a?
Speaker 2 (35:52):
couple of years.
We got right around one yearfor us.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Yeah, it was about one year.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Yeah, got pregnant with Owen and yeah, so she was
like 22 and I was like 26, Ithink.
So, yeah, got started early andit's been great.
It has been great.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
All right, hey, thanks so much for watching.
If you got any questions, textthem at 737-231-0605 or go to
pastorplekcom and leave a notefor us there.
We'd love to hear from you.
We're talking currently on theSong of Solomon.
We're talking sex.
We're talking relationships.
We're talking marriage.
If you want to join in thatconversation, we would love to
answer your question.
(36:32):
Thanks so much for watchingFrom our house to yours.
Have an awesome week.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.