August 22, 2025 • 29 mins
Have a question or comment for Pastor Plek or one of his guests. Send it here.
What happens when ritual replaces relationship? When a nation embraces death as a solution? When God is removed from governance? These profound questions drive our latest conversation about faith, culture, and the sanctity of life.
We begin by examining how easily Christians can fall into the trap of treating Scripture as a good-luck charm rather than a life-changing relationship. From soldiers reciting Psalm 91 before combat missions to nostalgic traditions that actually hinder authentic faith, we explore what it means to truly "hold fast" to Jesus rather than empty religious practices.
Ready to join the conversation? Send your questions to 737-231-0605!
Like, share, and subscribe! We love seeing and responding to your reviews and comments.
Support the show: https://wbcc.churchcenter.com/giving
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
and welcome back to pastor plex podcast.
I'm your host, pastor plec,along with pastor holland hi and
also john milton joining us inhis full six foot nine frame
hello, that's me all right, sowe're talking a little quick
recap.
Uh, you were there for thesermon here at Wells Branch
Community Church on Sunday.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Thoughts, definitely yes Thoughts when it comes to
Hebrews 3,.
It's reminding Israelites,reminding Jews in this case.
Right, moses is a great prophet, moses is not good enough.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Right, hold up Jesus over Moses and then hold off
hardening your heart toward theHoly Spirit.
And then I think the last partwas what did I say?
Oh yeah, hold firm to believein Jesus, or hold fast to
believe in Jesus, all right.
And I think the first thing Iopened up with when I was in
Iraq, I had one of my tanks.
(01:01):
They go out in a sector and allof them would read Psalm 91
together and there was no realevidence of their lives being
Christian other than that theyread Psalm 91.
Got it, which was great.
I mean, I love the fact theyread Psalm 91.
Way to go.
But that wasn't the thing thatmade them safe.
In fact, they read it astradition or ritual, so that
(01:23):
they wouldn't get hurt in combat.
Now, to be fair, they didn'tget hurt in combat, praise God.
Is that causation orcorrelation?
God only knows, god only knows,all right.
So I can pretty say for surethat that isn't what saves you,
(01:43):
that's not what protects you.
There is no magic words in theBible, can?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
you attest to that.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
I attest All right.
So I can pretty say for surethat that isn't what saves you,
that's not what protects you.
There is no magic words in theBible.
Can you attest to that?
I attest All right.
So I think that's how a lot ofChristians are.
We kind of create our own sortof things.
I hold on to that are Christianthings that may not necessarily
be a relationship with Jesus,may not necessarily be a
relationship with Jesus.
And you know, like doing thingsa certain way, the way you've
(02:08):
done it, in sort of tradition,not bad, but that's not what
saves you, not what draws youinto deeper relationship with
Jesus.
All right, so that's what wetalked about throughout the
whole thing, anything that stoodout to you.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yeah, the part that I like to hammer home is always
like hey, like Jews, welcome tothe family we're all in.
We all believe Jesus is goingto die, did in fact die to cover
all his sins.
Your rituals that you have arenice if they draw you together
and draw you near God, but theydo not save you, Right, right,
(02:41):
they do not save you.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Right, right, yeah, and and there could sometimes
nostalgic things, if you sort oflean into them too much, they
become actually hindrance.
And I, and I pointed out, likethis is where I was, I actually
did a couple ditties on Sundayyou may not approve I sang the
1983 song from the police, whichwas every breath you take.
(03:04):
Classic and a classic song andit's one of those songs that, if
you grew up 80s, 90s everybreath you take, every move you
make, every bond you break,every step you take, I'll be
watching you.
There's that reality.
We sang a song that wasbasically about stalking someone
(03:24):
.
So how did this tie in?
Like there's that reality, likewe sang a song that was
basically about stalking someone, so how did this tie in?
It's like, if no one thinksabout the words, you just think
about the nostalgic feeling backin the past, if you really
analyze the words.
You're like do you really wantto be a person that's singing
that to somebody?
No, or Semi-Charmed Life byThird Eye, blind, oh man,
(03:47):
classic.
And then like the lines wentlike this I want something else
to get me through thisSemi-charmed kind of life, baby,
baby.
And everyone was able to singthat part, which is I don't know
if that's encouraging.
But the next lines are likedoing crystal meth will lift you
up until you break.
It won't stop, I won't stop.
I keep stock, a tick, tockrhythm, a bump for the drop.
(04:07):
Then I bumped up, then I tookthe hit that I was given, then I
bumped again.
Then I bumped again.
I said, uh, yeah, it's wildwhen you look at the words and
you're like I sang that yeah, orat least I was like bop my head
, do it and I'd do the oh yeah,and probably like fifth grade or
something for me.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
I can't remember exactly.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
I was like you know yeah, this song's awesome, 20 or
whatever but it was wild tosort of see that reality of like
how crazy it was for that to beso in my head and then that's
nostalgic.
But if I were to sort of likespeak that now it would be
completely antithetical to myfaith and I think that's how
some people are with parts oftheir past which the Jews were.
(04:47):
That leads them astray or awayfrom Jesus, not towards him.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
The song came out in 97, so I was 10 years old, so
that was about right.
I was about fourth grade, fifthgrade for me, yeah yeah, I was
20.
It was a great song that washilarious, Dark and wicked of
course, so you connected thiswith the Hebrewians who still
are doing their kind of oldjewish rituals, the temple stuff
and they're like getcircumcised yeah, and they're
(05:12):
like not wearing.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
They won't wear polyester.
They will not enjoy some goodold-fashioned, cheap clothing.
Um and or whatever.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Their issue is just holding on to nostalgia instead
of really um letting thecovenant go.
Embracing the new covenant,that's right.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
It's about the law, guys, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yeah.
And then the last was holdingfirm to faith in Jesus.
I had this cool moment forPaxton's second day of school.
You know, they gave him alittle bag and we prayed with
him a couple times to receiveJesus.
And you know, how do you get toheaven?
You have to believe that Jesusdied on the cross and rose from
(05:49):
the dead.
And we went through the wholething.
And so it was like okay, ifyou're a Christian on your show
and tell here's a little rockwith a cross on it, I want you
to tell everyone that youbelieve in Jesus.
And he's like okay, so he had aturtle, he had a cross and he
had like a wristband orsomething that we got from some
vacation I think it was at PortAransas.
(06:10):
Okay, so those are three.
I like to go to the beach, andwe went to the vacation at a
beach this year.
And then so he does that and heholds up the turtle.
He's like I love the turtle.
And then he holds up the rockand he has the cross facing him
and the rock facing out and hegoes I like rocks, that's
awesome.
And then the first thing hedoes when he gets out of school,
(06:30):
he runs to Adrian.
He's like I didn't do it.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
I didn't do it.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
I told him I like rocks and Adrian has no idea
what he's talking about.
And then finally he explains.
That was the story.
But it was kind of wild.
It was fun to kind of see theconviction but as a six-year-old
it's hard to hold firm to faithin Jesus.
But over and over again you'regoing to be challenged by that
and so starting young to be ableto say I'm going to stand on my
faith in a public environmentis something that we'll be doing
(06:56):
for the rest of our life.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yeah, I was reluctant .
Speaker 1 (06:59):
After a second man's retreat, though, I'm like, yes,
let's do it second man's retreat, though I'm like, yes, let's do
it, I love it, I love it allright.
So I wanted to shift fromholding first, holding first,
holding firm in our faith injesus, holding fast our faith in
jesus.
I want to talk about, um,something that's going on that
came out in, uh, an article inthe atlantic I don't know if
anyone reads the atlantic, it'snot a christian article place at
(07:22):
all um, but they have reallylong articles.
If you read them you're likeit's almost like reading a
novella.
But on August 11th of 25, theycame out with this article,
written completely from asecular person, called Canada is
Killing Itself, and theybrought up the fact that it's I
think it's called, uh, medicalassistance in dying program made
(07:45):
, which is kind of funny.
Let's call it like the maid, the.
The death maid is here thedeath um and one in 20 deaths
across canada come from madegosh.
Medical assistance and dyingaccount for 1 in 20 deaths.
5%, 5%.
(08:06):
So like I'm thinking that thisis going to go.
It might be 10 in 20 prettysoon.
I mean that's wild 5 in 20.
That's a big number.
Sorry, 1 in 20.
But I could see it going from 1to 5, 5 to 10 real quickly, a
higher rate than any othernation with with longer
experiencing, longer experiencelegalizing euthanasia, and I
(08:30):
think it's because what it says.
They created the ethos ofautonomy.
The law prioritizes patientautonomy over mandatory
exhaustion of other treatments.
A contrast models like netherNetherlands, where patients and
physicians must agree that noviable treatment options remain.
So, for example, if a doctordoesn't sign off on it, then you
(08:51):
can't get medically assisteddeath.
However, in Canada, you areautonomous, and so if you think
in your non-medical trainingnon-medical whatever that that
there is no hope for you, you'reallowed to say it is better for
me to be dead, and then they,they're like, they kill them off
(09:14):
uh so is this a service you payfor?
Speaker 3 (09:17):
I, I guess or you imagine you would have to pay
for it.
Yeah, you have to pay for Imean it's part of the job, like
so, like you know they have.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
You know like there's christian conferences where you
show up, there's a thousandpeople, they do like raffles and
it's like a fun experience.
And they have death conferenceswhere you go and you network
there and you hang out withother killers, I guess, or, like
you know, medically assistingdoctors, and some people have
killed up to 500 people.
It's like a thing, it's likeyou know you go kill somebody,
(09:45):
you head off to Starbucks, pickup your coffee head home, take
the kids to the game and thenyou knock out another death the
next day.
I mean it's wild to think about.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
So I just looked this up.
It says financial costs relatedto medical assistance and dying
are relatively inexpensive.
Physicians' fees have not yetbeen determined, but an interim
document lists the cost at 440dollars for a general
practitioner, 519 dollars for aspecialist.
Uh, that's so you're justpaying hundreds of dollars for
(10:17):
someone to kill you.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yes, that is very dark very dark, very dark
catching on so what's wild islike just, I mean, let's just be
real.
I mean like I think of the last20 people I know who have died,
they all died from like.
I know two that died from covid, uh, several from cancer, uh,
(10:39):
like, but then out of thatthere'd be at least one out of
those 20 that died from going tothe doctor and then signing up
for it.
And this is wild to me, thatthis is a thing, and it's sort
of like this gets into.
The government has said humanbeings are completely autonomous
of themselves, and I think it'sreally the first time you're
(11:01):
seeing that, that this value ofautonomy, of like there is no
one who can tell me what to do,and I think that gets to a place
where then we decide what isgood, what is evil.
We don't have.
There is no God, there is nolike government.
It's like even that they can'ttell me that my life is worth
(11:22):
living either, which is sort ofwild to think about.
And what's interesting is, likethis, the thing of you know,
back in 20 or 2002, belgiumlegalized this and the
Netherlands legalized it, and Ithink there's some cases that
look in the past that just go,wow, it's sort of wild that in
(11:43):
2010, there was this lady 38years old.
She had a borderlinepersonality disorder.
She was euthanized and she was38.
Her family their claim that theprocedures weren't followed
correctly, but all three doctorswere acquitted and it was wild.
(12:04):
Here's a woman she didn't want.
At some point she goes I'm notready to do this.
And they are like no, we'redoing this and she has to die.
It's kind of this crazy spotwhere it creates the slippery
slope of like, if you don'texplicitly request it, it can be
(12:25):
like hey, for an extra $500,we'll just make this problem go
away fully.
And how many people are intheir right mind?
Yeah, right.
And then we're talking aboutteenagers, or children are apt
to be like hey, at what age arewe making it appropriate for
someone to say my life isn'tworth living anymore?
And then we let them go.
And if it's 18 plus, I thinkthat's where they're at right
(12:47):
now.
But for a 19-year-old to go,hey, I think I'm ready to end my
life and there's so much lifeto live.
Maybe they're depressed, maybethey have a bad, whatever, but
they can say I feel like my lifeis unlivable.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
And I think that gets into this culture of death that
becomes really scary.
Well, yeah, it speaks to thisassumption that we've all had
the blues.
A lot of us have been depressed.
I don't want to live in a worldwhere I had that option before
today.
Right, because it's a permanentsolution to a temporary problem
.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Right, okay.
So then this gets to thequestion is should there be
morals involved in law?
I mean, because what you're,what?
What the moral that canada hasnow is that your life does not
have value outside of, I guess,your opinion.
Your opinion, which is wild,yeah, and you didn't bring
(13:44):
yourself into this world, butyou now have the authority to
take yourself out.
And I think that it impliesthere is no God who has a saying
over your life.
And so it is saying to all ofCanada don't worry about God.
If you want to die, you can die.
Your life is your own, whereasthe inherently Christian thing
(14:06):
is your life is not your own.
You are God's and you are madein the image of God and so
therefore have value and worth,even if you don't recognize it.
So that bothers me.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Here's what's so crazy is you have so many people
today, so many Christians today, many people today, so many
Christians today, who are, youknow, vehemently opposed to the
idea of a Christian nation or,um, you know, intentionally
prioritizing Christianity inAmerica and things like that.
You know, it's like, uh, we seethat as like, for some reason,
(14:43):
we see that as a bad thing, um,due to a lot of you know,
failure of pastors to teach whatthe word says about nation's
government politics.
A lot of people just kind of notreally knowing and listening to
snippets they hear on socialmedia instead of really studying
the word and how this has beentaught.
But what happens, though, isyou go okay, if you're not going
(15:03):
to have a Christian nation,you're going to have a something
nation.
You're going to have a.
Laws are inherently moral.
Like you brought up before youknow, should laws be moral?
Of course laws are about whatis right and wrong, what will be
accepted or what will bepenalized.
You know what types of thingswill land you in jail and what
types of things will becelebrated socially.
(15:24):
Laws are inherently moral, andso whose morality are you going
to have If it's not going to bethe Lord's morality, biblical
morality, the 10 commandments,god's view of righteousness and
justice, and right and wrong,good and evil.
You're going to have someone'sview, and you know who it's
going to be People who think youshould just end your own life
(15:47):
if you're not happy People whothink you should destroy
monogamy and celebratehomosexuality and kill your
babies.
Have abortions.
If you're suffering, just takeyour life.
It is the total opposite ofwhat the opening pages of the
Bible say.
Be fruitful and multiply.
Enjoy this good earth that I'vegiven you.
(16:08):
Jesus said I came that they mayhave life and have it
abundantly.
Like you, will either have aculture of life that comes from
Christ and his word or you willhave a culture of death.
Take your pick.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
So okay, so let's do this.
This is john.
I would love this to hear yourperspective like do you think
it's okay?
Or maybe it may be a better wayto put this clearly secular
world say, especiallyleft-leaning people, would say
it is not only okay, it is greatthat there are muslim nations
that have sharia law.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Sure, I do hear, do hear that.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Right.
I mean, no one is sitting theregoing like man down with Sharia
law.
They're waving Pakistani flags.
I'm not saying that murder onany level is right, but people
are very quick to affirm likeSharia law, great, we need to
enforce that, or they need to beable to enforce that.
(17:05):
However, when it comes toChristian law, nobody's on board
with that.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Yeah, or like okay, currently, currently, for you
know many, many, many centuries,this is how the Bible was
taught, but currently it is notokay to want a Christian nation.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Right, okay, and then also like the Jewish state
Israel, like I don't think anyChristian is opposed to them
using like the law of Moses.
Probably they would say, likeokay, let's not stone people.
I'm not sure how they do thetemple sacrifices.
There'd be a lot there thatthey'd have to like work through
.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
But I think for the most part, they're down for at
least Sabbath law.
Like you can't, yeah, you don'thear anyone complaining online
about the idea of a Jewishnation or a Muslim nation or a
Hindu or a Shintoist nation or aBuddhist nation All of those
exist, by the way, yeah but whatyou do hear people complaining
about is the idea of a Christiannation, you know, a nation that
worships the one who isactually king.
So, like a lot of it, I think,is people confused on.
They've never thought aboutwhat it means to be a Muslim
(18:12):
nation or a Jewish nation orwhatever, and how religion and
politics intersect.
What you know, what it meansfor the institution of the
church or the state to besubmitted to God and yet still
not encroach on each other'sterritories Right, what about?
Speaker 1 (18:28):
this.
Jesus said my kingdom is not ofthis world.
Yeah, so that's kind of acommon.
I'm going to quote thatscripture.
So therefore we should keepChristians out of politics.
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Well, if this remember, the Anglican church
was brought here and it was partof the foundational tool of the
United States to practiceliberty, with the freedom to
worship the Christian God.
Right, I'm trying todisentangle that and quote
(19:05):
separation of church and stateand I get confused quickly.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
All right, yeah, so remember.
Okay, let's go back to that.
So, first off, where was it?
I can't remember what myquestion was, oh, yeah, my
kingdom is not this world.
Jesus is saying the origin ofthe kingdom of God is not earth,
it's heaven.
Right, so he's bringing kingdomwherever he goes, and so,
therefore, his followers shouldrepresent heaven on earth.
(19:29):
And so, therefore, whateverlaws we make, we want them to
reflect heaven and not earth.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Yeah, the origin of his kingdom is not this world.
The nature of his kingdom isnot this world.
It is based not on worldlyprinciples of right and wrong,
but on divine principles ofGod's moral law.
But we're taught to pray.
Thy kingdom come, thy will bedone on earth as it is in heaven
(19:57):
.
We want to see the spiritualrule and reign of God in heaven
manifest itself on the earth, inour lives, which involves our
personal walk with Jesus.
It involves our families.
It involves the institution ofthe family, the institution of
the church, the institution ofthe state, the government
(20:19):
nations.
We want to see everything increation submitted to Jesus
Christ.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
And that's the ultimate goal, and it should be.
If we really believe that Godhas the best way and his design
is for us, then we want aChristian culture.
Now, that doesn't mean we canconvert any hearts with religion
.
Nobody can convert anybody'sheart with religious things.
However, it is a way bigger win.
(20:48):
In the same way, there'sprobably cultural Judaism.
In fact, we'd say there'sprobably a lot of that.
How many are actually legitJews who are following the Torah
by the book?
Probably not many.
However, what about?
There's probably secular,cultural Muslims.
I mean, I ran into those peopleall the time.
(21:09):
They appreciated they wouldeven do the prayers, but they
would also get drunk and hireprostitutes, would even do the
prayers, but they would also getget drunk and hire prostitutes.
They would like.
That is a thing, um, that they,they appreciated the, the, the
fabric of society built on.
There was some some commonthings that you would do, and
here's some things you go tojail for, even if you, you know,
didn't want to.
It's kind of a wild world where, culturally, everyone does the
(21:35):
same thing and it makes thewhole culture in a sense, hold
together better.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Crime is less Consistent.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Consistent, yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Could I read?
This is from a commentary youknow, jc Ryle, familiar with.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
JC.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Ryle, theologian Anglican, lived in the 1800s, I
think he died in like 1900.
Yeah, and so he wrote a.
He's most known for hiscommentary on John, so very
thorough, detailed.
And so he wrote you know,that's where this verse is my
kingdom is not of this world.
Here's what his commentary.
I'll read one section he saysbut our Lord did not intend to
(22:12):
teach that the kings of thisworld have nothing to do with
religion and ought to ignore Godaltogether, and the kings of
this world have nothing to dowith religion and ought to
ignore God altogether in thegovernment of their subjects.
No such idea, we may be sure,was in his mind.
He knew perfectly well that itwas written by me kings reign,
proverbs 8.15, and that kingsare as much required to use
their influence for God as themeanest of their subjects.
(22:34):
He knew that the prosperity ofkingdoms is wholly dependent on
the blessing of God and thatkings are as much bound to
encourage righteousness andgodliness as to punish
unrighteousness and immorality.
To suppose that he meant toteach Pilate that, in his
judgment, an infidel might be asgood a king as a Christian and
a man like Galileo, uh, as gooda ruler as David or Solomon, is
(22:59):
simply absurd.
Let us hold uh, let us carefullyhold fast the true meaning of
our Lord's words in these latterdays.
Let us never be ashamed tomaintain that no government can
expect to prosper which refusesto recognize religion, which
deals with its subjects as ifthey had no souls and cares not
whether they serve God or Baalor no God at all.
Such a government will findsooner or later that its line of
(23:22):
policy is suicidal and damagingto its best interests.
So he says like, if you've gota government that's not going to
acknowledge God, the result ofthat is going to be suicidal.
You're going to fall apart,destroy yourselves.
We're watching that happenbefore our eyes in Canada.
Right now.
It's wild to see that Now hedoes say this no doubt the kings
(23:43):
of this world cannot make menChristians by laws and statutes.
Okay, so he's not intruding onthe mandate of the church, which
is to preach the gospel andmake disciples.
He's saying that theinstitution of the state has a
responsibility before God torule righteously.
So he says.
But they can.
The kings of this world aregovernments, rulers.
They can encourage and supportChristianity and they will do so
(24:05):
if they are wise.
The kingdom where there is themost industry, temperance,
truthfulness and honesty willalways be the most prosperous of
kingdoms.
The king who wants to see thesethings abound among his
subjects should do all that liesin his power to help
Christianity and discourageirreligion.
This was written in 1876.
So there was a time when peopleproperly understood what the
(24:29):
Bible teaches about agovernment's responsibility and
accountability to God to rulerighteously, and predicted back
then if they don't do this,you're going to kill yourselves,
and we see it happen rightbefore us.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
It literally is happening.
In Canada.
One in 20 deaths is from amedical assistance in dying.
Okay, which I appreciate.
And when Thomas Jefferson wroteabout religious freedom, he
said that he created a wall ofseparation between church and
state.
It wasn't a freedom fromreligion, but it was a freedom
(25:03):
of religion to practice howeverthey wanted and that the
government wouldn't givepreference to any one Christian
denomination Right.
And I think that's the partthat gets difficult.
Like everybody was all aboutJesus, like when you look at
the— yeah, there weren was allabout Jesus.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
There weren't Muslims and Hindus.
There weren't Muslims andHindus.
You had Baptists and someCatholics and you had
Presbyterians.
You had Christian denominations, protestants and Catholics,
especially people who had comefrom an oppressive— so you can
go wrong.
That's important to say you cango wrong with a Christian
nation.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Obviously, that's how America got here.
Right, right, right.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
You have Charlemagne right.
Who is you know?
Hey, get baptized or I kill you, right, so you can go wrong
with it.
But that doesn't mean you throwout Christian, the idea of
nations and governments honoringChrist.
It means that you seek to do itwell, according to the wisdom
of the word Right the.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Enlightenment with the French was huge, like
Robespierre with the guillotinejust chopping everybody's head
off.
That spoke out against theFrench and then he ended up
dying by the guillotine as well.
I mean, they were justmurdering people left and right
because they wouldn't bow theknee to the cult of secularism,
(26:23):
which is sort of wild to thinkabout.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
Yeah, and so— and it's like that's where you want
to go.
You want to go to the cult of—Right.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
And I think what's happened—they said, okay, listen
, the Thirty Years' War, allthese things were different.
Said, okay, listen, the 30 YearsWar, all these things were
different.
You know the Catholics and thenthe Protestants, and you know
England would go back and forthand you know Mary Queen of Scots
is kind of like bringing backall the Catholics and then
everyone died.
There's a lot of issues, right,there's a lot of issues where
you see back and forth violencewithin Christian rulers who
(26:58):
probably the culture ofChristianity hadn't affected
their soul.
They were using it as a powerplay and there wasn't a place
for the church to actindependent, to be the
conscience of the government,while they enforce law like
don't murder, steal that kind ofstuff.
Anyway, I know that that seemsprobably over the top and like
what laws are we going tomorally legislate and what laws
(27:19):
are we going to be calling thatconviction of the conscience,
which is where the church comesin and is preaching to you to
have your heart changed, wherethe government is saying like I
don't care what your heart says,I just want you to do the right
thing.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Yeah, sure, yeah, I think that brings up, you know,
the important discussion of,like, what is the best way to
align, you know, a nation withGod's moral law and what's?
You know what's going to berighteous and just.
That's a good conversation.
But the conversation we'restill having now, by and large
(27:51):
in culture is should you eventry to do that?
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Yeah, and maybe the question is I think this
autonomous issue of Canada islike no one should be able to
tell me what to do.
Yeah, and what you're saying isthere is no God that says it's
not wrong or right to take myown life.
It is whatever, and I thinkthat's where you go inevitably
when you say there is no God orwhen you have your government
(28:16):
devoid of God completely.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Yeah, right Again, do I think President Trump is
saved.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
I mean, he just said he hopes to go to heaven because
of all the peace deals he'sdoing, which I was like, ah, I'm
just like nah Pray for hissalvation.
Yeah, we got to pray for hissalvation.
But I think that becomesproblematic when you want to
take God completely out of allthings, make it completely
secular, because that's areligion of itself.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yeah, yeah, it's also a religion that when you're
done, you're done and there'snothing else after this.
So why are you even here Right,which gets dark really fast?
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Right.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Right Ecclesiastes was written.
For that Right, everythingunder the sun is worthless, but
for God.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Yeah, yeah, well, hey , thanks so much for watching.
If you've got any questions,we'd love to field them here at
Pastor Plex Podcast.
You can text at 737-231-0605.
We'd love to hear from you.
We'll see you next time.
Until then, have an awesomeweek of pushing.
and welcome back to pastor plex podcast.
I'm your host, pastor plec,along with pastor holland hi and
also john milton joining us inhis full six foot nine frame
hello, that's me all right, sowe're talking a little quick
recap.
Uh, you were there for thesermon here at Wells Branch
Community Church on Sunday.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Thoughts, definitely yes Thoughts when it comes to
Hebrews 3,.
It's reminding Israelites,reminding Jews in this case.
Right, moses is a great prophet, moses is not good enough.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Right, hold up Jesus over Moses and then hold off
hardening your heart toward theHoly Spirit.
And then I think the last partwas what did I say?
Oh yeah, hold firm to believein Jesus, or hold fast to
believe in Jesus, all right.
And I think the first thing Iopened up with when I was in
Iraq, I had one of my tanks.
(01:01):
They go out in a sector and allof them would read Psalm 91
together and there was no realevidence of their lives being
Christian other than that theyread Psalm 91.
Got it, which was great.
I mean, I love the fact theyread Psalm 91.
Way to go.
But that wasn't the thing thatmade them safe.
In fact, they read it astradition or ritual, so that
(01:23):
they wouldn't get hurt in combat.
Now, to be fair, they didn'tget hurt in combat, praise God.
Is that causation orcorrelation?
God only knows, god only knows,all right.
So I can pretty say for surethat that isn't what saves you,
(01:43):
that's not what protects you.
There is no magic words in theBible, can?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
you attest to that.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
I attest All right.
So I can pretty say for surethat that isn't what saves you,
that's not what protects you.
There is no magic words in theBible.
Can you attest to that?
I attest All right.
So I think that's how a lot ofChristians are.
We kind of create our own sortof things.
I hold on to that are Christianthings that may not necessarily
be a relationship with Jesus,may not necessarily be a
relationship with Jesus.
And you know, like doing thingsa certain way, the way you've
(02:08):
done it, in sort of tradition,not bad, but that's not what
saves you, not what draws youinto deeper relationship with
Jesus.
All right, so that's what wetalked about throughout the
whole thing, anything that stoodout to you.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yeah, the part that I like to hammer home is always
like hey, like Jews, welcome tothe family we're all in.
We all believe Jesus is goingto die, did in fact die to cover
all his sins.
Your rituals that you have arenice if they draw you together
and draw you near God, but theydo not save you, Right, right,
(02:41):
they do not save you.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Right, right, yeah, and and there could sometimes
nostalgic things, if you sort oflean into them too much, they
become actually hindrance.
And I, and I pointed out, likethis is where I was, I actually
did a couple ditties on Sundayyou may not approve I sang the
1983 song from the police, whichwas every breath you take.
(03:04):
Classic and a classic song andit's one of those songs that, if
you grew up 80s, 90s everybreath you take, every move you
make, every bond you break,every step you take, I'll be
watching you.
There's that reality.
We sang a song that wasbasically about stalking someone
(03:24):
.
So how did this tie in?
Like there's that reality, likewe sang a song that was
basically about stalking someone, so how did this tie in?
It's like, if no one thinksabout the words, you just think
about the nostalgic feeling backin the past, if you really
analyze the words.
You're like do you really wantto be a person that's singing
that to somebody?
No, or Semi-Charmed Life byThird Eye, blind, oh man,
(03:47):
classic.
And then like the lines wentlike this I want something else
to get me through thisSemi-charmed kind of life, baby,
baby.
And everyone was able to singthat part, which is I don't know
if that's encouraging.
But the next lines are likedoing crystal meth will lift you
up until you break.
It won't stop, I won't stop.
I keep stock, a tick, tockrhythm, a bump for the drop.
(04:07):
Then I bumped up, then I tookthe hit that I was given, then I
bumped again.
Then I bumped again.
I said, uh, yeah, it's wildwhen you look at the words and
you're like I sang that yeah, orat least I was like bop my head
, do it and I'd do the oh yeah,and probably like fifth grade or
something for me.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
I can't remember exactly.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
I was like you know yeah, this song's awesome, 20 or
whatever but it was wild tosort of see that reality of like
how crazy it was for that to beso in my head and then that's
nostalgic.
But if I were to sort of likespeak that now it would be
completely antithetical to myfaith and I think that's how
some people are with parts oftheir past which the Jews were.
(04:47):
That leads them astray or awayfrom Jesus, not towards him.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
The song came out in 97, so I was 10 years old, so
that was about right.
I was about fourth grade, fifthgrade for me, yeah yeah, I was
20.
It was a great song that washilarious, Dark and wicked of
course, so you connected thiswith the Hebrewians who still
are doing their kind of oldjewish rituals, the temple stuff
and they're like getcircumcised yeah, and they're
(05:12):
like not wearing.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
They won't wear polyester.
They will not enjoy some goodold-fashioned, cheap clothing.
Um and or whatever.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Their issue is just holding on to nostalgia instead
of really um letting thecovenant go.
Embracing the new covenant,that's right.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
It's about the law, guys, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yeah.
And then the last was holdingfirm to faith in Jesus.
I had this cool moment forPaxton's second day of school.
You know, they gave him alittle bag and we prayed with
him a couple times to receiveJesus.
And you know, how do you get toheaven?
You have to believe that Jesusdied on the cross and rose from
(05:49):
the dead.
And we went through the wholething.
And so it was like okay, ifyou're a Christian on your show
and tell here's a little rockwith a cross on it, I want you
to tell everyone that youbelieve in Jesus.
And he's like okay, so he had aturtle, he had a cross and he
had like a wristband orsomething that we got from some
vacation I think it was at PortAransas.
(06:10):
Okay, so those are three.
I like to go to the beach, andwe went to the vacation at a
beach this year.
And then so he does that and heholds up the turtle.
He's like I love the turtle.
And then he holds up the rockand he has the cross facing him
and the rock facing out and hegoes I like rocks, that's
awesome.
And then the first thing hedoes when he gets out of school,
(06:30):
he runs to Adrian.
He's like I didn't do it.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
I didn't do it.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
I told him I like rocks and Adrian has no idea
what he's talking about.
And then finally he explains.
That was the story.
But it was kind of wild.
It was fun to kind of see theconviction but as a six-year-old
it's hard to hold firm to faithin Jesus.
But over and over again you'regoing to be challenged by that
and so starting young to be ableto say I'm going to stand on my
faith in a public environmentis something that we'll be doing
(06:56):
for the rest of our life.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yeah, I was reluctant .
Speaker 1 (06:59):
After a second man's retreat, though, I'm like, yes,
let's do it second man's retreat, though I'm like, yes, let's do
it, I love it, I love it allright.
So I wanted to shift fromholding first, holding first,
holding firm in our faith injesus, holding fast our faith in
jesus.
I want to talk about, um,something that's going on that
came out in, uh, an article inthe atlantic I don't know if
anyone reads the atlantic, it'snot a christian article place at
(07:22):
all um, but they have reallylong articles.
If you read them you're likeit's almost like reading a
novella.
But on August 11th of 25, theycame out with this article,
written completely from asecular person, called Canada is
Killing Itself, and theybrought up the fact that it's I
think it's called, uh, medicalassistance in dying program made
(07:45):
, which is kind of funny.
Let's call it like the maid, the.
The death maid is here thedeath um and one in 20 deaths
across canada come from madegosh.
Medical assistance and dyingaccount for 1 in 20 deaths.
5%, 5%.
(08:06):
So like I'm thinking that thisis going to go.
It might be 10 in 20 prettysoon.
I mean that's wild 5 in 20.
That's a big number.
Sorry, 1 in 20.
But I could see it going from 1to 5, 5 to 10 real quickly, a
higher rate than any othernation with with longer
experiencing, longer experiencelegalizing euthanasia, and I
(08:30):
think it's because what it says.
They created the ethos ofautonomy.
The law prioritizes patientautonomy over mandatory
exhaustion of other treatments.
A contrast models like netherNetherlands, where patients and
physicians must agree that noviable treatment options remain.
So, for example, if a doctordoesn't sign off on it, then you
(08:51):
can't get medically assisteddeath.
However, in Canada, you areautonomous, and so if you think
in your non-medical trainingnon-medical whatever that that
there is no hope for you, you'reallowed to say it is better for
me to be dead, and then they,they're like, they kill them off
(09:14):
uh so is this a service you payfor?
Speaker 3 (09:17):
I, I guess or you imagine you would have to pay
for it.
Yeah, you have to pay for Imean it's part of the job, like
so, like you know they have.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
You know like there's christian conferences where you
show up, there's a thousandpeople, they do like raffles and
it's like a fun experience.
And they have death conferenceswhere you go and you network
there and you hang out withother killers, I guess, or, like
you know, medically assistingdoctors, and some people have
killed up to 500 people.
It's like a thing, it's likeyou know you go kill somebody,
(09:45):
you head off to Starbucks, pickup your coffee head home, take
the kids to the game and thenyou knock out another death the
next day.
I mean it's wild to think about.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
So I just looked this up.
It says financial costs relatedto medical assistance and dying
are relatively inexpensive.
Physicians' fees have not yetbeen determined, but an interim
document lists the cost at 440dollars for a general
practitioner, 519 dollars for aspecialist.
Uh, that's so you're justpaying hundreds of dollars for
(10:17):
someone to kill you.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yes, that is very dark very dark, very dark
catching on so what's wild islike just, I mean, let's just be
real.
I mean like I think of the last20 people I know who have died,
they all died from like.
I know two that died from covid, uh, several from cancer, uh,
(10:39):
like, but then out of thatthere'd be at least one out of
those 20 that died from going tothe doctor and then signing up
for it.
And this is wild to me, thatthis is a thing, and it's sort
of like this gets into.
The government has said humanbeings are completely autonomous
of themselves, and I think it'sreally the first time you're
(11:01):
seeing that, that this value ofautonomy, of like there is no
one who can tell me what to do,and I think that gets to a place
where then we decide what isgood, what is evil.
We don't have.
There is no God, there is nolike government.
It's like even that they can'ttell me that my life is worth
(11:22):
living either, which is sort ofwild to think about.
And what's interesting is, likethis, the thing of you know,
back in 20 or 2002, belgiumlegalized this and the
Netherlands legalized it, and Ithink there's some cases that
look in the past that just go,wow, it's sort of wild that in
(11:43):
2010, there was this lady 38years old.
She had a borderlinepersonality disorder.
She was euthanized and she was38.
Her family their claim that theprocedures weren't followed
correctly, but all three doctorswere acquitted and it was wild.
(12:04):
Here's a woman she didn't want.
At some point she goes I'm notready to do this.
And they are like no, we'redoing this and she has to die.
It's kind of this crazy spotwhere it creates the slippery
slope of like, if you don'texplicitly request it, it can be
(12:25):
like hey, for an extra $500,we'll just make this problem go
away fully.
And how many people are intheir right mind?
Yeah, right.
And then we're talking aboutteenagers, or children are apt
to be like hey, at what age arewe making it appropriate for
someone to say my life isn'tworth living anymore?
And then we let them go.
And if it's 18 plus, I thinkthat's where they're at right
(12:47):
now.
But for a 19-year-old to go,hey, I think I'm ready to end my
life and there's so much lifeto live.
Maybe they're depressed, maybethey have a bad, whatever, but
they can say I feel like my lifeis unlivable.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
And I think that gets into this culture of death that
becomes really scary.
Well, yeah, it speaks to thisassumption that we've all had
the blues.
A lot of us have been depressed.
I don't want to live in a worldwhere I had that option before
today.
Right, because it's a permanentsolution to a temporary problem
.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Right, okay.
So then this gets to thequestion is should there be
morals involved in law?
I mean, because what you're,what?
What the moral that canada hasnow is that your life does not
have value outside of, I guess,your opinion.
Your opinion, which is wild,yeah, and you didn't bring
(13:44):
yourself into this world, butyou now have the authority to
take yourself out.
And I think that it impliesthere is no God who has a saying
over your life.
And so it is saying to all ofCanada don't worry about God.
If you want to die, you can die.
Your life is your own, whereasthe inherently Christian thing
(14:06):
is your life is not your own.
You are God's and you are madein the image of God and so
therefore have value and worth,even if you don't recognize it.
So that bothers me.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Here's what's so crazy is you have so many people
today, so many Christians today, many people today, so many
Christians today, who are, youknow, vehemently opposed to the
idea of a Christian nation or,um, you know, intentionally
prioritizing Christianity inAmerica and things like that.
You know, it's like, uh, we seethat as like, for some reason,
(14:43):
we see that as a bad thing, um,due to a lot of you know,
failure of pastors to teach whatthe word says about nation's
government politics.
A lot of people just kind of notreally knowing and listening to
snippets they hear on socialmedia instead of really studying
the word and how this has beentaught.
But what happens, though, isyou go okay, if you're not going
(15:03):
to have a Christian nation,you're going to have a something
nation.
You're going to have a.
Laws are inherently moral.
Like you brought up before youknow, should laws be moral?
Of course laws are about whatis right and wrong, what will be
accepted or what will bepenalized.
You know what types of thingswill land you in jail and what
types of things will becelebrated socially.
(15:24):
Laws are inherently moral, andso whose morality are you going
to have If it's not going to bethe Lord's morality, biblical
morality, the 10 commandments,god's view of righteousness and
justice, and right and wrong,good and evil.
You're going to have someone'sview, and you know who it's
going to be People who think youshould just end your own life
(15:47):
if you're not happy People whothink you should destroy
monogamy and celebratehomosexuality and kill your
babies.
Have abortions.
If you're suffering, just takeyour life.
It is the total opposite ofwhat the opening pages of the
Bible say.
Be fruitful and multiply.
Enjoy this good earth that I'vegiven you.
(16:08):
Jesus said I came that they mayhave life and have it
abundantly.
Like you, will either have aculture of life that comes from
Christ and his word or you willhave a culture of death.
Take your pick.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
So okay, so let's do this.
This is john.
I would love this to hear yourperspective like do you think
it's okay?
Or maybe it may be a better wayto put this clearly secular
world say, especiallyleft-leaning people, would say
it is not only okay, it is greatthat there are muslim nations
that have sharia law.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Sure, I do hear, do hear that.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Right.
I mean, no one is sitting theregoing like man down with Sharia
law.
They're waving Pakistani flags.
I'm not saying that murder onany level is right, but people
are very quick to affirm likeSharia law, great, we need to
enforce that, or they need to beable to enforce that.
(17:05):
However, when it comes toChristian law, nobody's on board
with that.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Yeah, or like okay, currently, currently, for you
know many, many, many centuries,this is how the Bible was
taught, but currently it is notokay to want a Christian nation.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Right, okay, and then also like the Jewish state
Israel, like I don't think anyChristian is opposed to them
using like the law of Moses.
Probably they would say, likeokay, let's not stone people.
I'm not sure how they do thetemple sacrifices.
There'd be a lot there thatthey'd have to like work through
.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
But I think for the most part, they're down for at
least Sabbath law.
Like you can't, yeah, you don'thear anyone complaining online
about the idea of a Jewishnation or a Muslim nation or a
Hindu or a Shintoist nation or aBuddhist nation All of those
exist, by the way, yeah but whatyou do hear people complaining
about is the idea of a Christiannation, you know, a nation that
worships the one who isactually king.
So, like a lot of it, I think,is people confused on.
They've never thought aboutwhat it means to be a Muslim
(18:12):
nation or a Jewish nation orwhatever, and how religion and
politics intersect.
What you know, what it meansfor the institution of the
church or the state to besubmitted to God and yet still
not encroach on each other'sterritories Right, what about?
Speaker 1 (18:28):
this.
Jesus said my kingdom is not ofthis world.
Yeah, so that's kind of acommon.
I'm going to quote thatscripture.
So therefore we should keepChristians out of politics.
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Well, if this remember, the Anglican church
was brought here and it was partof the foundational tool of the
United States to practiceliberty, with the freedom to
worship the Christian God.
Right, I'm trying todisentangle that and quote
(19:05):
separation of church and stateand I get confused quickly.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
All right, yeah, so remember.
Okay, let's go back to that.
So, first off, where was it?
I can't remember what myquestion was, oh, yeah, my
kingdom is not this world.
Jesus is saying the origin ofthe kingdom of God is not earth,
it's heaven.
Right, so he's bringing kingdomwherever he goes, and so,
therefore, his followers shouldrepresent heaven on earth.
(19:29):
And so, therefore, whateverlaws we make, we want them to
reflect heaven and not earth.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Yeah, the origin of his kingdom is not this world.
The nature of his kingdom isnot this world.
It is based not on worldlyprinciples of right and wrong,
but on divine principles ofGod's moral law.
But we're taught to pray.
Thy kingdom come, thy will bedone on earth as it is in heaven
(19:57):
.
We want to see the spiritualrule and reign of God in heaven
manifest itself on the earth, inour lives, which involves our
personal walk with Jesus.
It involves our families.
It involves the institution ofthe family, the institution of
the church, the institution ofthe state, the government
(20:19):
nations.
We want to see everything increation submitted to Jesus
Christ.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
And that's the ultimate goal, and it should be.
If we really believe that Godhas the best way and his design
is for us, then we want aChristian culture.
Now, that doesn't mean we canconvert any hearts with religion
.
Nobody can convert anybody'sheart with religious things.
However, it is a way bigger win.
(20:48):
In the same way, there'sprobably cultural Judaism.
In fact, we'd say there'sprobably a lot of that.
How many are actually legitJews who are following the Torah
by the book?
Probably not many.
However, what about?
There's probably secular,cultural Muslims.
I mean, I ran into those peopleall the time.
(21:09):
They appreciated they wouldeven do the prayers, but they
would also get drunk and hireprostitutes, would even do the
prayers, but they would also getget drunk and hire prostitutes.
They would like.
That is a thing, um, that they,they appreciated the, the, the
fabric of society built on.
There was some some commonthings that you would do, and
here's some things you go tojail for, even if you, you know,
didn't want to.
It's kind of a wild world where, culturally, everyone does the
(21:35):
same thing and it makes thewhole culture in a sense, hold
together better.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Crime is less Consistent.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Consistent, yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Could I read?
This is from a commentary youknow, jc Ryle, familiar with.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
JC.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Ryle, theologian Anglican, lived in the 1800s, I
think he died in like 1900.
Yeah, and so he wrote a.
He's most known for hiscommentary on John, so very
thorough, detailed.
And so he wrote you know,that's where this verse is my
kingdom is not of this world.
Here's what his commentary.
I'll read one section he saysbut our Lord did not intend to
(22:12):
teach that the kings of thisworld have nothing to do with
religion and ought to ignore Godaltogether, and the kings of
this world have nothing to dowith religion and ought to
ignore God altogether in thegovernment of their subjects.
No such idea, we may be sure,was in his mind.
He knew perfectly well that itwas written by me kings reign,
proverbs 8.15, and that kingsare as much required to use
their influence for God as themeanest of their subjects.
(22:34):
He knew that the prosperity ofkingdoms is wholly dependent on
the blessing of God and thatkings are as much bound to
encourage righteousness andgodliness as to punish
unrighteousness and immorality.
To suppose that he meant toteach Pilate that, in his
judgment, an infidel might be asgood a king as a Christian and
a man like Galileo, uh, as gooda ruler as David or Solomon, is
(22:59):
simply absurd.
Let us hold uh, let us carefullyhold fast the true meaning of
our Lord's words in these latterdays.
Let us never be ashamed tomaintain that no government can
expect to prosper which refusesto recognize religion, which
deals with its subjects as ifthey had no souls and cares not
whether they serve God or Baalor no God at all.
Such a government will findsooner or later that its line of
(23:22):
policy is suicidal and damagingto its best interests.
So he says like, if you've gota government that's not going to
acknowledge God, the result ofthat is going to be suicidal.
You're going to fall apart,destroy yourselves.
We're watching that happenbefore our eyes in Canada.
Right now.
It's wild to see that Now hedoes say this no doubt the kings
(23:43):
of this world cannot make menChristians by laws and statutes.
Okay, so he's not intruding onthe mandate of the church, which
is to preach the gospel andmake disciples.
He's saying that theinstitution of the state has a
responsibility before God torule righteously.
So he says.
But they can.
The kings of this world aregovernments, rulers.
They can encourage and supportChristianity and they will do so
(24:05):
if they are wise.
The kingdom where there is themost industry, temperance,
truthfulness and honesty willalways be the most prosperous of
kingdoms.
The king who wants to see thesethings abound among his
subjects should do all that liesin his power to help
Christianity and discourageirreligion.
This was written in 1876.
So there was a time when peopleproperly understood what the
(24:29):
Bible teaches about agovernment's responsibility and
accountability to God to rulerighteously, and predicted back
then if they don't do this,you're going to kill yourselves,
and we see it happen rightbefore us.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
It literally is happening.
In Canada.
One in 20 deaths is from amedical assistance in dying.
Okay, which I appreciate.
And when Thomas Jefferson wroteabout religious freedom, he
said that he created a wall ofseparation between church and
state.
It wasn't a freedom fromreligion, but it was a freedom
(25:03):
of religion to practice howeverthey wanted and that the
government wouldn't givepreference to any one Christian
denomination Right.
And I think that's the partthat gets difficult.
Like everybody was all aboutJesus, like when you look at
the— yeah, there weren was allabout Jesus.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
There weren't Muslims and Hindus.
There weren't Muslims andHindus.
You had Baptists and someCatholics and you had
Presbyterians.
You had Christian denominations, protestants and Catholics,
especially people who had comefrom an oppressive— so you can
go wrong.
That's important to say you cango wrong with a Christian
nation.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Obviously, that's how America got here.
Right, right, right.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
You have Charlemagne right.
Who is you know?
Hey, get baptized or I kill you, right, so you can go wrong
with it.
But that doesn't mean you throwout Christian, the idea of
nations and governments honoringChrist.
It means that you seek to do itwell, according to the wisdom
of the word Right the.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Enlightenment with the French was huge, like
Robespierre with the guillotinejust chopping everybody's head
off.
That spoke out against theFrench and then he ended up
dying by the guillotine as well.
I mean, they were justmurdering people left and right
because they wouldn't bow theknee to the cult of secularism,
(26:23):
which is sort of wild to thinkabout.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
Yeah, and so— and it's like that's where you want
to go.
You want to go to the cult of—Right.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
And I think what's happened—they said, okay, listen
, the Thirty Years' War, allthese things were different.
Said, okay, listen, the 30 YearsWar, all these things were
different.
You know the Catholics and thenthe Protestants, and you know
England would go back and forthand you know Mary Queen of Scots
is kind of like bringing backall the Catholics and then
everyone died.
There's a lot of issues, right,there's a lot of issues where
you see back and forth violencewithin Christian rulers who
(26:58):
probably the culture ofChristianity hadn't affected
their soul.
They were using it as a powerplay and there wasn't a place
for the church to actindependent, to be the
conscience of the government,while they enforce law like
don't murder, steal that kind ofstuff.
Anyway, I know that that seemsprobably over the top and like
what laws are we going tomorally legislate and what laws
(27:19):
are we going to be calling thatconviction of the conscience,
which is where the church comesin and is preaching to you to
have your heart changed, wherethe government is saying like I
don't care what your heart says,I just want you to do the right
thing.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Yeah, sure, yeah, I think that brings up, you know,
the important discussion of,like, what is the best way to
align, you know, a nation withGod's moral law and what's?
You know what's going to berighteous and just.
That's a good conversation.
But the conversation we'restill having now, by and large
(27:51):
in culture is should you eventry to do that?
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Yeah, and maybe the question is I think this
autonomous issue of Canada islike no one should be able to
tell me what to do.
Yeah, and what you're saying isthere is no God that says it's
not wrong or right to take myown life.
It is whatever, and I thinkthat's where you go inevitably
when you say there is no God orwhen you have your government
(28:16):
devoid of God completely.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Yeah, right Again, do I think President Trump is
saved.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
I mean, he just said he hopes to go to heaven because
of all the peace deals he'sdoing, which I was like, ah, I'm
just like nah Pray for hissalvation.
Yeah, we got to pray for hissalvation.
But I think that becomesproblematic when you want to
take God completely out of allthings, make it completely
secular, because that's areligion of itself.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yeah, yeah, it's also a religion that when you're
done, you're done and there'snothing else after this.
So why are you even here Right,which gets dark really fast?
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Right.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Right Ecclesiastes was written.
For that Right, everythingunder the sun is worthless, but
for God.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Yeah, yeah, well, hey , thanks so much for watching.
If you've got any questions,we'd love to field them here at
Pastor Plex Podcast.
You can text at 737-231-0605.
We'd love to hear from you.
We'll see you next time.
Until then, have an awesomeweek of pushing.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.