May 8, 2025 • 25 mins
Have a question or comment for Pastor Plek or one of his guests. Send it here.
356: How does God redeem our pain? When affliction strikes, it often feels senseless and crushing. Yet within the Christian faith, suffering takes on profound meaning as we discover its redemptive purpose. In this vulnerable conversation, Pastors Plek and Pastor Holland share their personal journeys through grief, loss, and ministry challenges while exploring the powerful message of 2 Corinthians on comfort amid affliction.
Got questions? Text us at 737-231-0605!
Like, share, and subscribe! We love seeing and responding to your reviews and comments.
Support the show: https://wbcc.churchcenter.com/giving
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
and welcome back to pastor plex podcast.
I'm your host, pastor plec, andjoining me in studio is none
other than pastor holland greg.
Welcome back home hello, thankyou so much uh, we are talking
about, uh, second corinthiansday, and how you are blessed in
affliction.
And so, holland, first questionhave you ever been afflicted?
(00:26):
I have been afflicted.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
yes, how have you been afflicted?
You know I've been afflicted ina couple of different ways.
I've been afflicted with grief.
Grief is a real affliction whenI have lost loved ones.
Before I lost my dad rightafter moving to Wells Branch and
getting married, and that wasone of the hardest.
How long after you got marrieddid he?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
pass away um for five , about five months, yeah he got
married in june, got married inseptember, september and then.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
So it was, and then he passed away in february of
2013, and then my dad passedaway that following september.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, so affliction happens andso that's hard, but the cool
part that I think about ourChristian faith is we have a
higher floor than the rest ofthe world.
That doesn't mean we don't havesadness, that means we don't
have darkness.
But what I love is that evenwhen you despair, even of life
(01:25):
which is what happened to Paul,or what he wrote about in 2
Corinthians, chapter 1, is thathe had hoped that God would save
them ultimately by dying, orthat he would save their lives,
and so I think that's one of thethings that is a unique
perspective that Christians have, although, to be honest, when I
(01:45):
think about death, there'sprobably that it's probably like
I can only attribute to thingsI know.
Jumping out of an airplane forme was like very anxious,
anxiety driving, and then ithappened, and then it was like,
wow, this is great.
I mean, you're out in the sky,you're looking around, your
(02:05):
parachute opened.
It's pretty great, and that'sthe only thing I sort of imagine
.
I'm sure death, the fear of theunknown, is sort of like that,
but a passing from this life tothe next, but anyway, I think
the thing that's the struggle isthat Christians have an actual
hope, we have a theology and anunderstanding of the life after
(02:28):
this, which then should providea comfort, even when things are
hard currently, wouldn't youagree?
Yeah, amen, okay.
So Paul shared about thestruggle that he had of just
kind of life, but that he wantedto use the comfort that he'd
been given to bless them.
And I think all of us wheneverwe go through affliction,
(02:50):
whenever we go through struggle,god uses our pain points and
the comforts he's given us tothen have a purpose to minister
to others.
And so I think you and I bothhave been able to minister to
people in grief, minister topeople in the struggle of loved
ones making poor decisions andhow we can best support and love
(03:15):
our family and beyond, justthrough pastoring.
And I think that's one of thethings I feel like is probably
not I don't know, I don't knowif that's one of the things we
tout Like.
We're like be a Christian, youhave hope when everyone else is
in despair.
I don't know if that'ssomething like.
I don't know if that's likepart of our slogan, but it is, I
think, a part of the reality oflike where do you turn when you
(03:37):
have sadness, and I think Jesus, ultimately, is the great
comfort that we have.
Any other thoughts on that,just from pastoring and kind of
walking people through hardtimes.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
I mean there's a different level of
trustworthiness, reliability,confidence you know that you
have when you're able to speaknot only from theory but from,
but from experience, right andso like, when you've walked
through affliction, when you'veexperienced grief, when you face
(04:11):
trials, when you've suffered,um, it's like your words carry
more weight to the people you'reministering to.
And so you know, in some sense,you know you, you should expect,
okay, if I'm going to be inministry, then the Lord is going
to bring me through sufferingand trial so that I can speak
from a place of experience tocomfort and encourage others
(04:33):
with the hope of Jesus.
And then, even for those who arenot going to be a pastor or
something like that, all of ushave been given a ministry in
the sense of ministering toothers, serving the Lord and
serving other people in His name, where suffering is just part
of life and is part of followingChrist.
And if we can see it as theLord preparing us to minister to
(04:56):
others and you know the Lordusing it, comforting us so that
we might be comforters to otherpeople, I think it helps you
even in just like while you'rein the middle of your own
suffering, while you're facingaffliction.
You can even go like okay, Iknow like the Lord has a purpose
for this and I'm going to beable to comfort someone else in
this place at some point andthat can even help you while
(05:18):
you're going through it.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Yeah, I agree.
Here's the thing that I noticedin this is that Paul was a
comforter, right, yeah, andobviously he knew that.
And then he made plans to go toCorinth and then he doesn't
follow up on them because hedidn't want to have to come up
there and be harsh with them.
But then people got reallyupset at Paul and were like
(05:42):
you're vacillating, you know, Ican't trust you.
All that and it kind ofreminded me whenever, because
Paul's like I'm going to, I wantto comfort you, I'm coming to
you, I want to help you, andhere you are, sort of like you
don't really care about us.
It just reminds me of my kidsgoing like you hate me when you
take away the switch or like youpromised them ice cream and
(06:02):
then the plans change and youand ultimately, what I think can
happen in the church is we havethis great comfort in Jesus,
but then all of a sudden, when aleader doesn't do what we
expect them to do, then we loseour minds and instead of being
comforted by Jesus, we kind ofbreak it, we lose heart.
(06:27):
And this is even when leadershave moral failures or even when
they don't, even when they justhad a change of plans, like in
Paul's case, people start to go.
They get crushed by that insome ways.
Have you seen people's hope andheart get crushed because they
put too much emphasis on aperson as opposed to getting
their comfort from the Lord?
(06:50):
Yeah, man with planting a churcheight years ago, or how eight
years ago?
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I think 2017 to 2025 and not really knowing you know
what all that was going to looklike.
Um, it wasn't just you know, meand my family that you know,
didn't know what it's gonna looklike.
Everyone you know that goes inlike on the original team right
comes in with expectations abouthere's how it's going to go,
here's what it's going to be,and no one really knows what to
(07:18):
expect.
And so when your expectationsaren't met, yeah, there's
frustration there.
Sometimes people are verywilling to shift.
You bring up the example ofPaul.
Some people are like, man,totally get it, no big deal.
And then there's other peoplewho are really upset with Paul
and with everything fromplanting a church to trying to
get established.
(07:38):
And when you make any kind ofchanges or ministry decisions
that people weren't anticipating, right, even from some of the
things that seem so minuscule orunimportant, trivial, whatever,
they can be a really big dealto people.
And so constantly, no matterwhat stage you're in in ministry
, it seems like you're alwaysdealing with disappointing
(08:00):
people and people putting a lotof pressure on you to be
something that sometimes younever even promised them to
begin with, but they're carryingover expectations from a
previous church or somethinglike that, and so, yeah, that's
just an aspect of being inministry, and then even beyond
(08:20):
ministry, I think, with husbandsand wives.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
There's an expectation this is what wives
are supposed to do, and thenwhen the wife doesn't, do what?
She's supposed to do.
Then there is a real almostit's almost an idol of like your
whole heart breaks and fallsapart because you were supposed
to do what you said, or ahusband you were supposed to be
or do something that I had in mymind or in my vision, and then
it didn't come to fruition.
and then you can kind of getshattered by that.
(08:42):
As opposed to my hope is in theunchangingness of the lord and
I'm gonna have to uh, respond,adapt, be resilient and take
initiative in into ways to leaninto marriage or to lean into
parenting or to lean in whateverdifferent part of life that
you're at.
Okay, yeah, I feel like thoseare all wise words because one
(09:04):
of the things I mentioned onSunday was like providing
comfort is uncomfortable.
Yeah, like if you're a comfortprovider, you're, you're going.
I said it's kind of likehugging a cactus, like you're.
Sometimes, people they want,they want comfort, they want to
be ministered to, but they haveso many issues that leaning into
(09:25):
that is going to be painful, nomatter what.
All right.
So want to talk about um, abouta question that came up through
our podcast question line and,by the way, if you have a
question, you can text us at737-231-0605.
And the question is this I knowpart of the preaching was the
(09:46):
message around comfort and anexample was not to spend money
on things you can't afford.
What if you want to give lotsof money to like the church but
don't have a lot of money.
I've been asked this before.
All right thoughts on that,holland.
What do you think I love?
Speaker 2 (10:05):
that question.
That's so awesome.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
As a big heart and they want to be generous and
what would would first step?
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (10:15):
So when we think about generous, typically we
think about the amount of moneybeing given.
I think, biblically, generosityis the amount of faith required
to give it Right.
So the widow and the two mitesright, Mark 12,.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
The poor widow put two small coins in the offering
and Jesus praised her for morethan the wealthy donors.
She put in all she had.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
More generous.
Yeah, Generosity is not aboutthe amount given but the amount
of faith required to give it.
And so, you know, for thisperson, first of all, I would
say I love that.
It's like, man, I wish I hadmore money so that I could give
more.
That's awesome.
And, like you know, it's almostlike am I being stupid by
giving so much?
Like that's kind of what, whereusually people are like, oh, I
(10:57):
don't have very much, there's noway I could give.
I need to.
You know, wait until I havemore to start giving.
This person's like oh man, Iwant to give it all.
So I think that's reallyawesome.
But to be encouraged, for thisperson to be encouraged, knowing
that generosity is about thefaith behind the gift, more so
than the amount.
And you know, since you're in 2Corinthians, 2 Corinthians 9,
(11:24):
you know gives a lot ofencouragement about giving.
Yeah, Says verse 11, or 10 and11, he who supplies seed to the
sower and bread for food willsupply and multiply your seed
for sowing and increase theharvest of your righteousness.
You will be enriched in everyway, to be generous in every way
.
So I got desire to want to begenerous, saying like, hey, you
start giving what you can nowwith the heart of faith, and God
(11:46):
will bless you that you cangive more in the future.
He who is faithful with littlewill be faithful with much.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
God doesn't bless you to raise your standard of
living, but to raise yourstandard of giving.
Boom, there you go, In fact, 2Corinthians 8.12, for if the
readiness is there, it isacceptable according to whata
person has, not according towhat he does not have.
So I think your heart isexactly in the right spot.
Your desire to give honors God,even if your capacity is
(12:14):
limited.
But guess who can increase yourcapacity?
The Lord.
And so I think, starting withpraying, like God, I would love
to give more.
I would love to be able to Idon't know reverse tithe, I
don't know if that's theperson's heart, but like what's?
a reverse tithe so where yougive 90 and you live off 10, so
(12:34):
uh gosh rj letourneau, like thatwas like his big thing
letourneau university, the guythat okay, he was a big inventor
of earth movers, uh, and so hegave away 90 of his income and
lived off 10 now granted whenyou're gazillion earth movers
like bulldozers and uh like forconstruction sites.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
He's the one who invented the, the kind of like I
thought this was like amovement like that we're the
earth movers, like uh, likeministry or something like that.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
So and so that was kind of like rj letourneau like
really inspired me and I'm likeI would love to be able to do
that.
Yeah, and like I was like forme.
I was like what if I just gave1% more every year and just see
what happens?
And get to the point where it'sprobably not going to be
realistic.
And I'm still going.
Love it, it's kind of wild, allright, so I think that's
exactly what you should do, andI like this one, too, from Luke.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
But you can't spend money you don't have.
Yes, so I mean that's animportant part of it is like you
don't want to go into creditcard debt giving to a church
right, you don't want to just beswiping your card, Then you'll
be a part of the benevolenceprogram.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
And then you're just paying interest on money that
you.
Are you going to make thechurch pay that interest?
No, so I feel like, don't givewhat you don't have, but give
what you do have, and then askGod to bless you so that you may
give more.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
There, you go?
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Yeah, I think that, yeah, whoever can be trusted
with very little can be alsotrusted with much.
That's classic Luke 16, 10.
Be faithful with the smallresources and then God will be
pleased and prepare you tohandle more if he provides it.
So I think that's let's talkabout the giving in debt,
because I think we had, uh,whenever capital campaigns come
(14:17):
around and um, whenever we didour capital campaign for the
revive the stones, which youstill want to get to, that you
are more than welcome to, forour new church building in
breakaway.
But when we did that, somepeople like had a.
They looked at their financethat I can give this much over
and above what I normally give,and then I want to give this
(14:38):
much over and above what Inormally give.
And then I want to give thismuch and there's a faith gap
over three years that God wouldsomehow provide that and that
you couldn't give it if youdidn't have it.
But there's a part of faiththat you would, you'd lean into
God, pledge that much and thengive that much and then watch
God show up and provide.
And so you know we've saw a lotof people do huge faith gaps
(15:00):
and then, through unforeseencircumstances that they couldn't
have predicted, then Godprovided the money for them to
give.
It was kind of wild.
That's awesome, yeah, so thatpart is very exciting to watch
God work like that.
One of my favorite stories fromTim Hawks, the former pastor at
Hill Country Bible Church.
He got us all together.
Do you remember this?
He said one of the best thingsyou can do is have a capital
(15:22):
campaign for your church.
It gets at the very heart ofmaterialism, even if all you do
is raise a lot of money and thenburn it in the parking lot and
I love the picture of thatbecause of course nobody would
do that.
But the point is you need to docapital campaigns to call
people to give so that theirsecurity isn't in their 401k or
(15:45):
their investments or whatever,but is in the Lord Anyway.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
I thought that was kind of a cool thought.
What is your take on whenpeople are thinking through
their finances and giving,saving, you know, emergency
savings what about you know?
Proverbs says a good man leavesan inheritance to his
children's children.
You know how should someone ifthey're like okay, I want to be
disciplined.
(16:12):
I talked to some guys thismorning in the men's study and
we talked about finances andgiving and what do we do if we
don't have, you know, feel likewe don't have enough to give, or
I have, and so it's just a goodconversation.
I think a lot of people youknow need some guidance on is
how should I be divvying up whatGod gives to me in terms of
spending, investing, bills,inheritance to my children's
(16:36):
children, like what do you thinkabout that?
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Yeah, I am a person who is a big fan of the give,
live, save plan.
And so give first, create aplan for what you're going to
live off of and then save.
So if I were to break it down,10, 10, 80 would be give 10,
(16:58):
save 10, and then that's verygeneral.
Some other people would saysave 15 and live off the rest,
but start somewhere with allthat, start somewhere with
giving, start somewhere withsaving and start somewhere with
a budget so that you knowactually what you're spending,
what's coming in, what's goingout.
I think for a lot of us and Ithink you can probably attest to
(17:21):
this is that people don'tbudget.
They just sort of money comesin, money goes out and they're
like, ah, and if what happens?
If you depend on credit card,if you're not intentional about
where that money goes, thenyou're not building into an
inheritance for yourgrandchildren, which I think
(17:44):
that's obviously biblical togive an inheritance to your
grandchildren.
I'm a recipient of aninheritance from my grandfather
and so I definitely want tocontinue that.
It was a huge.
That's how I bought our house.
That was wild.
So I think that that is a huge.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
it's really special and that's wise.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
I bought our house.
That was wild, so I think thatthat is a huge it's, it's really
special and that's wise livingand wise investing.
And, um, at the same time,you're not, uh, you know, I
think, Warren Buffett.
You know he wanted to give awaylike nine 9% of his wealth
because he's a gazillionaire.
All right, but I don't thinkany of us are in that realm of
Warren Buffett.
(18:19):
So I do think savings wise,because it's not like you're
hoarding money, you are payingyourself when you don't have a
job.
You need to think through that.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
So what about the proverb of the guy with the barn
storing up the stuff in hisbarn?
And some people go to that andbe like, yeah, you're not
supposed to save, that's likeworldliness.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Right, yeah, well, I think there's a part of it.
I don't know if that was likehow much wealth we're talking
about, but don't do that right,because you don't know what your
life is, and so I think that istrue.
I think that you're having tohold attention, um, with both
sides, that your hope can't notbe in your money, because we all
know that.
Uh, let's just go to the 1920s.
Banks were completelyliquidated and there was, there
(19:07):
was nothing there, and oh, oops,oh.
But I'm now the fdic.
Oh, you're telling me you'retrusting in the government for
your 250 000.
Well, how long is that 250 000gonna last you?
Yeah, if everything you know,let's just say the government
does come through.
But what if the governmentdoesn't come through?
What if the governmentcollapses?
Well, we're in America.
That would never happen.
I'm sure that's what they feltlike in Rome, you know there's a
reality that, like the, thingthat you trust in cannot be your
(19:30):
wealth, because that is heretoday, gone tomorrow.
as Proverbs says, is it getswings and flies away.
Is it gets wings and flies away.
Or like, as some say, it's likea fake wall, like a fake castle
.
So you have this ability sortof like I'm okay, but it's an
(19:53):
illusion of control.
Anyway, Now is there someprobably peace of mind that
comes from.
I have thought through this,I've biblically thought through
my finances, I have planned asbest you can, but your trust
still cannot be in your plan.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yeah, that's a good way to put it.
I think you know there's bothof those realities are in the
scripture of one.
It's good to work hard.
It's good to make money, it'sgood to you.
Can't be generous if you're notmaking anything to be generous
with.
You know it's good to you.
Can't be generous if you're notmaking anything to be generous
with.
You know it's good to save,it's good to save up for your
children's children.
It's good to be generous.
All those things are good andat the same time you can't serve
(20:29):
God and money.
There's a temptation of theidolatry of wealth and
materialism and you can't putyour hope in it because it can't
save you, and so, like allthose, things are true at the
same time.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Yeah, I think Proverbs 18 something a rich
man's wealth is like a strongcity and like a high wall in his
imagination.
I think that if we have the viewthat my wealth is not
guaranteed, that at any givenmoment you could have a house
fire and you weren't coveredinsurance wise for two days or
(21:02):
whatever.
I think I just was talking to apolice officer, um, a couple
days ago, and a guy had like a avintage stingray corvette worth
over a hundred thousand dollarsand his insurance ran out on
420 and he hadn't renewed it forwhatever reason, and he was
going to a car show and drove itstraight into a telephone pole
and gone like in one.
(21:24):
He woke up five minutes beforehe was excited about going to
the car show that's gone and ora tornado, and you you didn't
pay up for your house insuranceor whatever the situation is.
There.
There was COVID, I mean, whocould predict that?
And you had all your moneyinvested in I don't know um
something that COVID destroyed.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Like there you go, you had a restaurant or
something.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yeah, and or whatever , like there's anything could
happen and so there's nothingguaranteed.
Sometimes it's a wealth, is anillusion of control.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
But at the same time it's smart to it can be a useful
tool.
Yeah, it's a great tool tobless others to Others, to bless
your children, yourgrandchildren?
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Yeah, so seeing it as a useful tool, but nothing to
put your hope in.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Right, and so I love the fact that somebody wants to
be able to give more.
Yeah, and I think, give whatyou have.
I do think I'm a big fan ofMalachi 3.10,.
Bring the whole tithe in thestorehouse, then maybe food in
my house.
Test me in this as a Lord ofHosts and see if I'll not open
up the windows of heaven for youand pour down a blessing for
you until there's no more need,meaning like there'll be no
scarcity.
(22:29):
It will be, you will have morethan enough, and obviously
that's an old Testament verse.
And the whole tithe means, likeyou know, the 10% that went to
the Levites, the 10% to went tonational feast, the 10% over
three years that went to thepoor.
You know, there there's a lotof different tithes and so you
need to have a whole tithe.
Bring everything, but I think,with Jesus, you know, bring
(22:50):
expecting a financial provisionfrom God in some way.
In fact, what the Bible sayswhen you give to the poor, you
lend to the Lord.
And so I think aboutbenevolence giving there's a
blessing that enables forgiving,there's a blessing that enables
forgiving, and then you reapwhat you sow.
And I think you mentioned 2Corinthians, 9, 10, 11.
(23:14):
So I do feel like there is clearscriptural backing, not for a
prosperity gospel.
God's going to bless me so Ican have more for me.
He's not going to raise mystandard of living necessarily,
but he will raise my standard ofgiving.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Yeah, yeah, and I mean, if your standard of living
is unsustainable, I think it'sokay to raise your standard of
living too.
But you know the goal,obviously, that you see in Jesus
like just to bring it back tothe real gospel.
You know the goal is agenerosity that displays the
heart of God, the love of God.
(23:49):
Um, your trust is in Jesus.
You know you can give, give ina way that demonstrates God's
love to the world.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Um, yeah, and I don't like I said, like I don't think
you have to live like a pauper,yeah, like if you've got wealth
, enjoy it.
God has given, has blessed youwith that so that you can enjoy
it.
But at the same time, the heartof raise your standard of
giving, not your standard ofliving, isn't so that?
It's so that you put thatperspective first.
(24:16):
I want to seek first to expandkingdom, give to the kingdom and
God.
It's your money, do with howGod has entrusted you and how
he's leading you, and I thinkthat's the important part.
I think sometimes people forgetthat every dollar, not just the
money you give to the church, iswhat God is leading you to use.
Well, it's how much money youput toward your house and how
(24:38):
much money you put towardswhatever and it might be.
You know, have the big house soyou can have a lot of people
over, so you can bless a lot ofpeople and have a lot of
communal life happening at yourhouse.
That's a glorious thing, yeah.
So, yeah, good question, yeah,great question.
I didn't realize it would takeus down that pretty good.
That was a fun rabbit hole.
So back to comfort, and I thinkthis is God gives us comfort,
(25:03):
and sometimes that's materialcomfort, so that we can bless
others, and then we're notsupposed to get angry at others
when they don't provide us thecomfort that we thought they
were going to provide us at thetime.
They're supposed to provide usand I think that can be an issue
when you're dealing with Paulas a pastor or as an elder, as
(25:23):
an apostle that they wanted toexperience joy from him or also
from a just putting your hope inpeople and not in Jesus.
Yeah, hey, thanks so much forwatching.
We will see you next time onPastor Flex podcast from our
house to yours An awesome weekof worship.
and welcome back to pastor plex podcast.
I'm your host, pastor plec, andjoining me in studio is none
other than pastor holland greg.
Welcome back home hello, thankyou so much uh, we are talking
about, uh, second corinthiansday, and how you are blessed in
affliction.
And so, holland, first questionhave you ever been afflicted?
(00:26):
I have been afflicted.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
yes, how have you been afflicted?
You know I've been afflicted ina couple of different ways.
I've been afflicted with grief.
Grief is a real affliction whenI have lost loved ones.
Before I lost my dad rightafter moving to Wells Branch and
getting married, and that wasone of the hardest.
How long after you got marrieddid he?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
pass away um for five , about five months, yeah he got
married in june, got married inseptember, september and then.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
So it was, and then he passed away in february of
2013, and then my dad passedaway that following september.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, so affliction happens andso that's hard, but the cool
part that I think about ourChristian faith is we have a
higher floor than the rest ofthe world.
That doesn't mean we don't havesadness, that means we don't
have darkness.
But what I love is that evenwhen you despair, even of life
(01:25):
which is what happened to Paul,or what he wrote about in 2
Corinthians, chapter 1, is thathe had hoped that God would save
them ultimately by dying, orthat he would save their lives,
and so I think that's one of thethings that is a unique
perspective that Christians have, although, to be honest, when I
(01:45):
think about death, there'sprobably that it's probably like
I can only attribute to thingsI know.
Jumping out of an airplane forme was like very anxious,
anxiety driving, and then ithappened, and then it was like,
wow, this is great.
I mean, you're out in the sky,you're looking around, your
(02:05):
parachute opened.
It's pretty great, and that'sthe only thing I sort of imagine
.
I'm sure death, the fear of theunknown, is sort of like that,
but a passing from this life tothe next, but anyway, I think
the thing that's the struggle isthat Christians have an actual
hope, we have a theology and anunderstanding of the life after
(02:28):
this, which then should providea comfort, even when things are
hard currently, wouldn't youagree?
Yeah, amen, okay.
So Paul shared about thestruggle that he had of just
kind of life, but that he wantedto use the comfort that he'd
been given to bless them.
And I think all of us wheneverwe go through affliction,
(02:50):
whenever we go through struggle,god uses our pain points and
the comforts he's given us tothen have a purpose to minister
to others.
And so I think you and I bothhave been able to minister to
people in grief, minister topeople in the struggle of loved
ones making poor decisions andhow we can best support and love
(03:15):
our family and beyond, justthrough pastoring.
And I think that's one of thethings I feel like is probably
not I don't know, I don't knowif that's one of the things we
tout Like.
We're like be a Christian, youhave hope when everyone else is
in despair.
I don't know if that'ssomething like.
I don't know if that's likepart of our slogan, but it is, I
think, a part of the reality oflike where do you turn when you
(03:37):
have sadness, and I think Jesus, ultimately, is the great
comfort that we have.
Any other thoughts on that,just from pastoring and kind of
walking people through hardtimes.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
I mean there's a different level of
trustworthiness, reliability,confidence you know that you
have when you're able to speaknot only from theory but from,
but from experience, right andso like, when you've walked
through affliction, when you'veexperienced grief, when you face
(04:11):
trials, when you've suffered,um, it's like your words carry
more weight to the people you'reministering to.
And so you know, in some sense,you know you, you should expect,
okay, if I'm going to be inministry, then the Lord is going
to bring me through sufferingand trial so that I can speak
from a place of experience tocomfort and encourage others
(04:33):
with the hope of Jesus.
And then, even for those who arenot going to be a pastor or
something like that, all of ushave been given a ministry in
the sense of ministering toothers, serving the Lord and
serving other people in His name, where suffering is just part
of life and is part of followingChrist.
And if we can see it as theLord preparing us to minister to
(04:56):
others and you know the Lordusing it, comforting us so that
we might be comforters to otherpeople, I think it helps you
even in just like while you'rein the middle of your own
suffering, while you're facingaffliction.
You can even go like okay, Iknow like the Lord has a purpose
for this and I'm going to beable to comfort someone else in
this place at some point andthat can even help you while
(05:18):
you're going through it.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Yeah, I agree.
Here's the thing that I noticedin this is that Paul was a
comforter, right, yeah, andobviously he knew that.
And then he made plans to go toCorinth and then he doesn't
follow up on them because hedidn't want to have to come up
there and be harsh with them.
But then people got reallyupset at Paul and were like
(05:42):
you're vacillating, you know, Ican't trust you.
All that and it kind ofreminded me whenever, because
Paul's like I'm going to, I wantto comfort you, I'm coming to
you, I want to help you, andhere you are, sort of like you
don't really care about us.
It just reminds me of my kidsgoing like you hate me when you
take away the switch or like youpromised them ice cream and
(06:02):
then the plans change and youand ultimately, what I think can
happen in the church is we havethis great comfort in Jesus,
but then all of a sudden, when aleader doesn't do what we
expect them to do, then we loseour minds and instead of being
comforted by Jesus, we kind ofbreak it, we lose heart.
(06:27):
And this is even when leadershave moral failures or even when
they don't, even when they justhad a change of plans, like in
Paul's case, people start to go.
They get crushed by that insome ways.
Have you seen people's hope andheart get crushed because they
put too much emphasis on aperson as opposed to getting
their comfort from the Lord?
(06:50):
Yeah, man with planting a churcheight years ago, or how eight
years ago?
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I think 2017 to 2025 and not really knowing you know
what all that was going to looklike.
Um, it wasn't just you know, meand my family that you know,
didn't know what it's gonna looklike.
Everyone you know that goes inlike on the original team right
comes in with expectations abouthere's how it's going to go,
here's what it's going to be,and no one really knows what to
(07:18):
expect.
And so when your expectationsaren't met, yeah, there's
frustration there.
Sometimes people are verywilling to shift.
You bring up the example ofPaul.
Some people are like, man,totally get it, no big deal.
And then there's other peoplewho are really upset with Paul
and with everything fromplanting a church to trying to
get established.
(07:38):
And when you make any kind ofchanges or ministry decisions
that people weren't anticipating, right, even from some of the
things that seem so minuscule orunimportant, trivial, whatever,
they can be a really big dealto people.
And so constantly, no matterwhat stage you're in in ministry
, it seems like you're alwaysdealing with disappointing
(08:00):
people and people putting a lotof pressure on you to be
something that sometimes younever even promised them to
begin with, but they're carryingover expectations from a
previous church or somethinglike that, and so, yeah, that's
just an aspect of being inministry, and then even beyond
(08:20):
ministry, I think, with husbandsand wives.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
There's an expectation this is what wives
are supposed to do, and thenwhen the wife doesn't, do what?
She's supposed to do.
Then there is a real almostit's almost an idol of like your
whole heart breaks and fallsapart because you were supposed
to do what you said, or ahusband you were supposed to be
or do something that I had in mymind or in my vision, and then
it didn't come to fruition.
and then you can kind of getshattered by that.
(08:42):
As opposed to my hope is in theunchangingness of the lord and
I'm gonna have to uh, respond,adapt, be resilient and take
initiative in into ways to leaninto marriage or to lean into
parenting or to lean in whateverdifferent part of life that
you're at.
Okay, yeah, I feel like thoseare all wise words because one
(09:04):
of the things I mentioned onSunday was like providing
comfort is uncomfortable.
Yeah, like if you're a comfortprovider, you're, you're going.
I said it's kind of likehugging a cactus, like you're.
Sometimes, people they want,they want comfort, they want to
be ministered to, but they haveso many issues that leaning into
(09:25):
that is going to be painful, nomatter what.
All right.
So want to talk about um, abouta question that came up through
our podcast question line and,by the way, if you have a
question, you can text us at737-231-0605.
And the question is this I knowpart of the preaching was the
(09:46):
message around comfort and anexample was not to spend money
on things you can't afford.
What if you want to give lotsof money to like the church but
don't have a lot of money.
I've been asked this before.
All right thoughts on that,holland.
What do you think I love?
Speaker 2 (10:05):
that question.
That's so awesome.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
As a big heart and they want to be generous and
what would would first step?
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (10:15):
So when we think about generous, typically we
think about the amount of moneybeing given.
I think, biblically, generosityis the amount of faith required
to give it Right.
So the widow and the two mitesright, Mark 12,.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
The poor widow put two small coins in the offering
and Jesus praised her for morethan the wealthy donors.
She put in all she had.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
More generous.
Yeah, Generosity is not aboutthe amount given but the amount
of faith required to give it.
And so, you know, for thisperson, first of all, I would
say I love that.
It's like, man, I wish I hadmore money so that I could give
more.
That's awesome.
And, like you know, it's almostlike am I being stupid by
giving so much?
Like that's kind of what, whereusually people are like, oh, I
(10:57):
don't have very much, there's noway I could give.
I need to.
You know, wait until I havemore to start giving.
This person's like oh man, Iwant to give it all.
So I think that's reallyawesome.
But to be encouraged, for thisperson to be encouraged, knowing
that generosity is about thefaith behind the gift, more so
than the amount.
And you know, since you're in 2Corinthians, 2 Corinthians 9,
(11:24):
you know gives a lot ofencouragement about giving.
Yeah, Says verse 11, or 10 and11, he who supplies seed to the
sower and bread for food willsupply and multiply your seed
for sowing and increase theharvest of your righteousness.
You will be enriched in everyway, to be generous in every way
.
So I got desire to want to begenerous, saying like, hey, you
start giving what you can nowwith the heart of faith, and God
(11:46):
will bless you that you cangive more in the future.
He who is faithful with littlewill be faithful with much.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
God doesn't bless you to raise your standard of
living, but to raise yourstandard of giving.
Boom, there you go, In fact, 2Corinthians 8.12, for if the
readiness is there, it isacceptable according to whata
person has, not according towhat he does not have.
So I think your heart isexactly in the right spot.
Your desire to give honors God,even if your capacity is
(12:14):
limited.
But guess who can increase yourcapacity?
The Lord.
And so I think, starting withpraying, like God, I would love
to give more.
I would love to be able to Idon't know reverse tithe, I
don't know if that's theperson's heart, but like what's?
a reverse tithe so where yougive 90 and you live off 10, so
(12:34):
uh gosh rj letourneau, like thatwas like his big thing
letourneau university, the guythat okay, he was a big inventor
of earth movers, uh, and so hegave away 90 of his income and
lived off 10 now granted whenyou're gazillion earth movers
like bulldozers and uh like forconstruction sites.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
He's the one who invented the, the kind of like I
thought this was like amovement like that we're the
earth movers, like uh, likeministry or something like that.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
So and so that was kind of like rj letourneau like
really inspired me and I'm likeI would love to be able to do
that.
Yeah, and like I was like forme.
I was like what if I just gave1% more every year and just see
what happens?
And get to the point where it'sprobably not going to be
realistic.
And I'm still going.
Love it, it's kind of wild, allright, so I think that's
exactly what you should do, andI like this one, too, from Luke.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
But you can't spend money you don't have.
Yes, so I mean that's animportant part of it is like you
don't want to go into creditcard debt giving to a church
right, you don't want to just beswiping your card, Then you'll
be a part of the benevolenceprogram.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
And then you're just paying interest on money that
you.
Are you going to make thechurch pay that interest?
No, so I feel like, don't givewhat you don't have, but give
what you do have, and then askGod to bless you so that you may
give more.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
There, you go?
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Yeah, I think that, yeah, whoever can be trusted
with very little can be alsotrusted with much.
That's classic Luke 16, 10.
Be faithful with the smallresources and then God will be
pleased and prepare you tohandle more if he provides it.
So I think that's let's talkabout the giving in debt,
because I think we had, uh,whenever capital campaigns come
(14:17):
around and um, whenever we didour capital campaign for the
revive the stones, which youstill want to get to, that you
are more than welcome to, forour new church building in
breakaway.
But when we did that, somepeople like had a.
They looked at their financethat I can give this much over
and above what I normally give,and then I want to give this
(14:38):
much over and above what Inormally give.
And then I want to give thismuch and there's a faith gap
over three years that God wouldsomehow provide that and that
you couldn't give it if youdidn't have it.
But there's a part of faiththat you would, you'd lean into
God, pledge that much and thengive that much and then watch
God show up and provide.
And so you know we've saw a lotof people do huge faith gaps
(15:00):
and then, through unforeseencircumstances that they couldn't
have predicted, then Godprovided the money for them to
give.
It was kind of wild.
That's awesome, yeah, so thatpart is very exciting to watch
God work like that.
One of my favorite stories fromTim Hawks, the former pastor at
Hill Country Bible Church.
He got us all together.
Do you remember this?
He said one of the best thingsyou can do is have a capital
(15:22):
campaign for your church.
It gets at the very heart ofmaterialism, even if all you do
is raise a lot of money and thenburn it in the parking lot and
I love the picture of thatbecause of course nobody would
do that.
But the point is you need to docapital campaigns to call
people to give so that theirsecurity isn't in their 401k or
(15:45):
their investments or whatever,but is in the Lord Anyway.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
I thought that was kind of a cool thought.
What is your take on whenpeople are thinking through
their finances and giving,saving, you know, emergency
savings what about you know?
Proverbs says a good man leavesan inheritance to his
children's children.
You know how should someone ifthey're like okay, I want to be
disciplined.
(16:12):
I talked to some guys thismorning in the men's study and
we talked about finances andgiving and what do we do if we
don't have, you know, feel likewe don't have enough to give, or
I have, and so it's just a goodconversation.
I think a lot of people youknow need some guidance on is
how should I be divvying up whatGod gives to me in terms of
spending, investing, bills,inheritance to my children's
(16:36):
children, like what do you thinkabout that?
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Yeah, I am a person who is a big fan of the give,
live, save plan.
And so give first, create aplan for what you're going to
live off of and then save.
So if I were to break it down,10, 10, 80 would be give 10,
(16:58):
save 10, and then that's verygeneral.
Some other people would saysave 15 and live off the rest,
but start somewhere with allthat, start somewhere with
giving, start somewhere withsaving and start somewhere with
a budget so that you knowactually what you're spending,
what's coming in, what's goingout.
I think for a lot of us and Ithink you can probably attest to
(17:21):
this is that people don'tbudget.
They just sort of money comesin, money goes out and they're
like, ah, and if what happens?
If you depend on credit card,if you're not intentional about
where that money goes, thenyou're not building into an
inheritance for yourgrandchildren, which I think
(17:44):
that's obviously biblical togive an inheritance to your
grandchildren.
I'm a recipient of aninheritance from my grandfather
and so I definitely want tocontinue that.
It was a huge.
That's how I bought our house.
That was wild.
So I think that that is a huge.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
it's really special and that's wise.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
I bought our house.
That was wild, so I think thatthat is a huge it's, it's really
special and that's wise livingand wise investing.
And, um, at the same time,you're not, uh, you know, I
think, Warren Buffett.
You know he wanted to give awaylike nine 9% of his wealth
because he's a gazillionaire.
All right, but I don't thinkany of us are in that realm of
Warren Buffett.
(18:19):
So I do think savings wise,because it's not like you're
hoarding money, you are payingyourself when you don't have a
job.
You need to think through that.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
So what about the proverb of the guy with the barn
storing up the stuff in hisbarn?
And some people go to that andbe like, yeah, you're not
supposed to save, that's likeworldliness.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Right, yeah, well, I think there's a part of it.
I don't know if that was likehow much wealth we're talking
about, but don't do that right,because you don't know what your
life is, and so I think that istrue.
I think that you're having tohold attention, um, with both
sides, that your hope can't notbe in your money, because we all
know that.
Uh, let's just go to the 1920s.
Banks were completelyliquidated and there was, there
(19:07):
was nothing there, and oh, oops,oh.
But I'm now the fdic.
Oh, you're telling me you'retrusting in the government for
your 250 000.
Well, how long is that 250 000gonna last you?
Yeah, if everything you know,let's just say the government
does come through.
But what if the governmentdoesn't come through?
What if the governmentcollapses?
Well, we're in America.
That would never happen.
I'm sure that's what they feltlike in Rome, you know there's a
reality that, like the, thingthat you trust in cannot be your
(19:30):
wealth, because that is heretoday, gone tomorrow.
as Proverbs says, is it getswings and flies away.
Is it gets wings and flies away.
Or like, as some say, it's likea fake wall, like a fake castle
.
So you have this ability sortof like I'm okay, but it's an
(19:53):
illusion of control.
Anyway, Now is there someprobably peace of mind that
comes from.
I have thought through this,I've biblically thought through
my finances, I have planned asbest you can, but your trust
still cannot be in your plan.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yeah, that's a good way to put it.
I think you know there's bothof those realities are in the
scripture of one.
It's good to work hard.
It's good to make money, it'sgood to you.
Can't be generous if you're notmaking anything to be generous
with.
You know it's good to you.
Can't be generous if you're notmaking anything to be generous
with.
You know it's good to save,it's good to save up for your
children's children.
It's good to be generous.
All those things are good andat the same time you can't serve
(20:29):
God and money.
There's a temptation of theidolatry of wealth and
materialism and you can't putyour hope in it because it can't
save you, and so, like allthose, things are true at the
same time.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Yeah, I think Proverbs 18 something a rich
man's wealth is like a strongcity and like a high wall in his
imagination.
I think that if we have the viewthat my wealth is not
guaranteed, that at any givenmoment you could have a house
fire and you weren't coveredinsurance wise for two days or
(21:02):
whatever.
I think I just was talking to apolice officer, um, a couple
days ago, and a guy had like a avintage stingray corvette worth
over a hundred thousand dollarsand his insurance ran out on
420 and he hadn't renewed it forwhatever reason, and he was
going to a car show and drove itstraight into a telephone pole
and gone like in one.
(21:24):
He woke up five minutes beforehe was excited about going to
the car show that's gone and ora tornado, and you you didn't
pay up for your house insuranceor whatever the situation is.
There.
There was COVID, I mean, whocould predict that?
And you had all your moneyinvested in I don't know um
something that COVID destroyed.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Like there you go, you had a restaurant or
something.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yeah, and or whatever , like there's anything could
happen and so there's nothingguaranteed.
Sometimes it's a wealth, is anillusion of control.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
But at the same time it's smart to it can be a useful
tool.
Yeah, it's a great tool tobless others to Others, to bless
your children, yourgrandchildren?
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Yeah, so seeing it as a useful tool, but nothing to
put your hope in.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Right, and so I love the fact that somebody wants to
be able to give more.
Yeah, and I think, give whatyou have.
I do think I'm a big fan ofMalachi 3.10,.
Bring the whole tithe in thestorehouse, then maybe food in
my house.
Test me in this as a Lord ofHosts and see if I'll not open
up the windows of heaven for youand pour down a blessing for
you until there's no more need,meaning like there'll be no
scarcity.
(22:29):
It will be, you will have morethan enough, and obviously
that's an old Testament verse.
And the whole tithe means, likeyou know, the 10% that went to
the Levites, the 10% to went tonational feast, the 10% over
three years that went to thepoor.
You know, there there's a lotof different tithes and so you
need to have a whole tithe.
Bring everything, but I think,with Jesus, you know, bring
(22:50):
expecting a financial provisionfrom God in some way.
In fact, what the Bible sayswhen you give to the poor, you
lend to the Lord.
And so I think aboutbenevolence giving there's a
blessing that enables forgiving,there's a blessing that enables
forgiving, and then you reapwhat you sow.
And I think you mentioned 2Corinthians, 9, 10, 11.
(23:14):
So I do feel like there is clearscriptural backing, not for a
prosperity gospel.
God's going to bless me so Ican have more for me.
He's not going to raise mystandard of living necessarily,
but he will raise my standard ofgiving.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Yeah, yeah, and I mean, if your standard of living
is unsustainable, I think it'sokay to raise your standard of
living too.
But you know the goal,obviously, that you see in Jesus
like just to bring it back tothe real gospel.
You know the goal is agenerosity that displays the
heart of God, the love of God.
(23:49):
Um, your trust is in Jesus.
You know you can give, give ina way that demonstrates God's
love to the world.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Um, yeah, and I don't like I said, like I don't think
you have to live like a pauper,yeah, like if you've got wealth
, enjoy it.
God has given, has blessed youwith that so that you can enjoy
it.
But at the same time, the heartof raise your standard of
giving, not your standard ofliving, isn't so that?
It's so that you put thatperspective first.
(24:16):
I want to seek first to expandkingdom, give to the kingdom and
God.
It's your money, do with howGod has entrusted you and how
he's leading you, and I thinkthat's the important part.
I think sometimes people forgetthat every dollar, not just the
money you give to the church, iswhat God is leading you to use.
Well, it's how much money youput toward your house and how
(24:38):
much money you put towardswhatever and it might be.
You know, have the big house soyou can have a lot of people
over, so you can bless a lot ofpeople and have a lot of
communal life happening at yourhouse.
That's a glorious thing, yeah.
So, yeah, good question, yeah,great question.
I didn't realize it would takeus down that pretty good.
That was a fun rabbit hole.
So back to comfort, and I thinkthis is God gives us comfort,
(25:03):
and sometimes that's materialcomfort, so that we can bless
others, and then we're notsupposed to get angry at others
when they don't provide us thecomfort that we thought they
were going to provide us at thetime.
They're supposed to provide usand I think that can be an issue
when you're dealing with Paulas a pastor or as an elder, as
(25:23):
an apostle that they wanted toexperience joy from him or also
from a just putting your hope inpeople and not in Jesus.
Yeah, hey, thanks so much forwatching.
We will see you next time onPastor Flex podcast from our
house to yours An awesome weekof worship.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.