December 18, 2025 • 46 mins
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378: Matt Badgley's life began with unimaginable trauma - conceived through rape to a drug-addicted mother. His childhood was marked by poverty, abuse, and abandonment, leading to a suicide attempt at 14. However, God intervened through Young Life ministry, where Matt encountered the unconditional love of his Heavenly Father. Today, he's breaking generational cycles by raising godly children with his wife Brittany. His story demonstrates that no situation is too broken for God's redemption, and our worst experiences can become the foundation for ministry and hope for others.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:05):
Welcome back to Pastor Plex Podcast.
I'm your host, Pastor Plex, andjoining me today is someone I'm
very excited about.
Matthew, I want you to give usMatt.
Matt.
SPEAKER_00 (00:16):
Yeah.
Matt.
Yeah.
My wife calls me Matthew, and uhit's a term of endearment, or
I'm in trouble.
So Matt Matt's the way to getit.
SPEAKER_01 (00:23):
All right.
So get tell us who you are.
Tell us where you came from.
Tell us like um just the basicsof of how you came to the
church.
And then we're gonna I want toget into because once I heard
your, I don't know, real truestory, whole story, whole
biography, yeah.
It's pretty wild.
SPEAKER_00 (00:37):
Yeah, well, I'll do the uh the abridged version.
So uh I've been a uh Christianfor 15 years now.
Uh been with my wife since highschool, or high school
sweethearts.
I've got two kids, uh Jackson,he's six, and Peyton is eight
years old.
And we've been in Texas since2019.
We moved here from Seattle.
SPEAKER_01 (00:55):
That's wild.
Okay, and your wife's Britney.
Yes, Brittany Badgley.
And she's so great.
So, okay, so Matt, what thething that struck me about your
life is, and I want you uh, youknow, share as much as you feel
comfortable.
You you shared even this morningthat you were conceived in rape.
Yes.
So, like that to me wasmind-blowing.
(01:16):
Because usually what people sayin an argument um for abortion,
yeah, is what about somebody whouh rapes someone and then they
should or that mom should havethe ability to terminate that
pregnancy.
Now, so can you tell give uslike the background of like of
(01:41):
your story and let's get intothat a little bit?
SPEAKER_00 (01:43):
Yeah, yeah.
So that's something I've I'vethought about a lot, as is it's
been really prevalent in ourculture.
And I've only seen one exampleonline where someone's actually
talked about their story and howthey were conceived through
rape.
So I would imagine it's it'sprobably more of a rare thing.
But I think I saw it on aCharlie Kirk video of all
things.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, but that that's my story.
That's that's where uh myrelationship with Christ starts,
(02:04):
believe it or not.
Okay, yeah.
Um yeah, it's pretty wild tothink that, but um I think
everything happens for a reason.
I really do, and that's a storythat God gave me.
So it goes like this.
My mom, uh, she's she struggledwith drug addiction her entire
life.
And so um, she told me uh thatshe was in a rehab clinic and
she met this man, and that manended up being my biological
father.
(02:25):
Um and they became really goodfriends.
And uh while they were in therehab clinic, they had agreed
that uh when he got out, uh hewould come pick her up once her
date ended.
She was gonna be there a littlebit longer than him.
And so they made thisarrangement.
She gets out and she meets him,she gets in his car, and they
start driving, and she realizesthat he's high on something, she
(02:47):
doesn't know what.
But he starts going off and andhe's talking about this plan
that he has to go rob this guyand how he's gonna use her to
sleep with him.
And while that's happening, he'sgonna sneak in and steal all
this stuff, and they're gonnamake out, you know, with all
this money.
And and he had this whole schemeplanned.
And she's, you know, she's nowsober and she's thinking, What
(03:08):
the heck are you talking about?
I'm not gonna do that.
And so she tells him, No, I'mnot doing that.
And he said to her, uh, Well,you're gonna pay for this ride
one way or another.
And she told me that he pulledover and he raped her and he
left her on the side of theroad.
Yeah, it's wild.
And so she is going, What do Ido?
(03:30):
You know, um, she finds outlater that she she uh is
pregnant with me, and uh herfirst thought was abortion.
You know, I think that'sprobably anybody's first thought
in that uh situation.
And my mom is, you know, atleast at that time, I did not
think she was uh a strongChristian.
However, my grandma is like ahardcore Catholic.
(03:51):
So thank God for the Catholicgrandmaster that are out there
because she told my mom, youcannot have an abortion.
That that baby is a gift uh toyou, and it does not matter how
he was conceived.
And so she then thought, okay,well, I'm not gonna have an
abortion.
Maybe I'll give him up foradoption.
And it just so happened thatthere was uh a family friend of
ours that she knew.
Uh he was a doctor, the wife wasa lawyer, it would have been a
(04:13):
great setup, and they wanted toadopt.
At the last second, she decidednot to go that route.
She uh gave birth to me and thendecided to keep me.
The reason why I say my my storywith God starts there is because
she named me Matthew, whichmeans gift from God.
And she prayed uh before shegave birth to me.
She said, God, this boy's notgonna have a father, and I need
(04:35):
you to watch over him andprotect him and be his heavenly
father.
Wow.
And so that's that's where itstarted.
That is wild.
SPEAKER_01 (04:43):
Okay, so then so you know, she she's out of drug
rehab, she gets pregnant withyou, you know, nine months
later, you're born.
Is she drug free at that point?
Or does that great question?
SPEAKER_00 (04:56):
So, yes, she's it's wild.
So she be she was sober, butwhen you typically when you get
on drugs, it's not because youjust wake up someday and you're
like, I'm gonna get on drugs,it's because you're around bad
association, right?
And so when she was 14, uh, shetold me that she was around uh
bad association.
A guy that she was babysittingfor came home one day, he had
(05:18):
drugs, gave it to her.
That's how she got hooked onmethamphetamines, very hardcore
drug.
And so she, yes, she was soberwhen she had me, thank God.
Uh, but being around thatassociation, now she's a single
mom, she's got no one to helpraise this kid.
What do you do?
She starts dealing drugs, shestarts getting into trafficking,
and so she Wait, wait,trafficking.
You mean drug trafficking?
(05:38):
From what I understand, it wasdrug trafficking, but I wouldn't
be surprised if it was any sortof trafficking.
Like human trafficking, yes, butdrug trafficking for sure.
Okay.
And when I say humantrafficking, I don't mean that
she was trafficking otherhumans, but she might have been
prostituting herself.
I I don't know that for a fact.
But um she was selling drugsnonetheless.
That's what she got caught for.
So she ends up actually going toprison when I was about two or
(06:01):
three uh years old.
And uh my grandparents uh tookme in.
So she went to prison for Ithink it was about one, maybe
two years.
Yeah.
And so um Wow.
So yeah, my grandparents took mein at that at that point.
Uh, we were living, it was kindof a crazy setup.
If ever anyone's ever seen umThe Sweet Life of Zach and Cody,
it's like this old school Disneyshow where these kids grow up in
(06:24):
this really uh swanky five-starhotel.
Uh, my grandparents weremanaging a one-star motel in in
Reno, Nevada.
Uh that's where I was born,that's where I was raised until
I was 10.
Um, and so they were managingthis, you know, this uh motel
that was right off of FourthStreet, which is where you go to
find hookers and drugs and Reno.
(06:44):
And uh my grandparents, Godbless them, if it wasn't for
them, I I wouldn't I wouldn't bewho I am today.
Um they were a godsend of mylife.
And so they took me in and andI, for a period of my uh
childhood until my mom got outof prison, I was living in a
motel and it was a really crazycool kind of a situation,
despite it being, you know, nota good environment uh in terms
(07:06):
of the quality of the hotel, butuh cool in terms of being with
my grandparents, being in a in aloving situation, and uh just
getting into experiencesomething most kids don't get to
experience.
SPEAKER_01 (07:16):
Okay, so your t your mom's you comes back, I guess
comes back early into your life,you move in with her at 10.
SPEAKER_00 (07:22):
So she gets out of prison and she moves into the
motel.
And uh uh it got okay for awhile, things get bad uh later.
Um she moves in this motel, anduh I remember um being in there
with her in it, you know, it's amotel.
It's and it's a it's I mean youcan picture it in your head in a
(07:43):
place that you'd probably go uhuh sleep with a prostitute, do
drugs, just you're there onenight, you know.
You're not making reservationsfor this place.
Uh-huh.
This is where, you know, I'mliving with her, it's just me
and her.
Uh and then myself same room, oryou're like same room.
It's it's one room and abathroom.
That's it.
Okay.
One bedroom or one bed.
And my uh stepdad, he comes intothe picture at this point.
(08:06):
Okay.
Uh, I think right before she hadgone off to prison, they had
made a connection, and they musthave been talking through prison
because he comes into thepicture as soon as she gets out.
So now he's living in this motelwith us.
All three are in the same room.
Yes.
And it it was uh it was kind ofa a traumatic experience to
start just because I rememberlike my earliest memories of is
(08:26):
of them having sex right behindme.
You know, I'm three years old,and that's what I remember.
And uh I was told this guy'syour dad.
And I didn't find out until Iwas 10 uh that he wasn't.
And for a period of time, um hewas just this this dad in my
life.
He was kind of absent in a way,he worked nights.
(08:47):
Uh, we ended up getting out ofthat motel situation.
He got us into an apartment, andit was like, hallelujah.
You know, we're living in anapartment now.
This is this is incredible.
This is amazing.
Yeah, we're living big.
Did your motel have a pool?
It did have a pool, but the poolhad a crack in it, and there was
no water in it.
So it was just concrete.
Dang it.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (09:05):
Okay, so you're you're living in the apartment
upscale.
Uh still see your grandparents?
SPEAKER_00 (09:12):
Yeah, I would still see my grandparents, but we
moved uh across town.
So we were living in downtownRena.
We moved to Stead, which uh Irecently visited last summer,
and I looked it up on uh onlivability, and it's the worst
place you could possibly live inthe Reno area.
So that's where we moved.
SPEAKER_01 (09:28):
Okay.
So does your mom stick it outmarriage-wise with the new dad?
So yes.
SPEAKER_00 (09:34):
Um things were okay.
They were both sober until I wasabout seven, maybe eight years
old, right around there.
And uh that's when thingsstarted going way south.
Um, they had my my uh littlesister, she was five years
younger than me.
That was their biological kidtogether.
Right.
Uh, this whole time again, I'mthinking this is my real father.
And so um, the story goes likethis that uh one day uh his
(09:58):
brother shows up into town, he'she comes to visit from Iowa, and
uh my stepdad's working nights.
And so uh I had asked my mom,how did you guys get back on
drugs?
What happened?
And she told me that uh whenthis uncle came to visit, he
brought some methamphetaminesand they were sitting there one
night after we're in bed, andand he goes, Hey, if you take
this, you can stay up all nightlong and hang out with me.
(10:19):
Because my stepdad was workingnights and he was tired.
And that's a great idea.
Let's do that, you know.
And so if you know, if if you'rea recovering addict and someone
puts that right in front of you,temptation is great, and uh they
they took that bait, and it waslike overnight things got awful,
things got terrible.
All right, so how did he tellyou that he that he wasn't your
biological dad?
(10:40):
He he never did.
I didn't find out until I was Iwas 10.
So once the drugs startedhappening, um everything started
to unravel in the house.
Uh it was it was constantfighting every single day.
Um, lots of abuse, uh, abusefrom my stepdad uh to my uh my
mom and to myself.
Um and one day, uh uh my mom andmy stepdad got in a big fight
(11:02):
physically and ended up in thefront lawn.
Yeah.
And so the neighbors call thecops, the cops come and arrest
the stepdad, and he goes off tojail for I think about six,
seven months.
So I'm about uh I was nine yearsold at this time in fourth
grade.
And uh while he's in jail, wedon't have any income.
My mom wasn't working, and she'sall she cares about right now is
(11:25):
how to get her next fix.
You know, I remember findingneedles in our house.
Um, it was wild.
We had no power in the house,there's no water for six, seven
months.
And uh what ends up happening isright before my grandparents
were they so they're they're inWashington right now.
They're they're living up inSeattle, they moved.
I don't remember exactly how oldI was when they moved, but they
were up in Seattle by thispoint.
(11:46):
That's where they're fromoriginally.
Reno was just like a place theywere at temporarily.
Seattle was was where the familywas from.
SPEAKER_01 (11:53):
Okay, so you're you're living without power.
Yeah, you're you know, do you Idon't know, are you the smelly
kid at school at this point, Iguess?
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (12:02):
I had one pair of pants.
Uh I remember my mom.
I told her I need I need uh Ineed uh clothes for school.
And she gave me$20.
And I was like, what am I gonnado with this?
I have one pair of good jeans,that's it.
And at the same time, I'm stilltrying to be a you know, a kid
that's trying to be cool.
So were you parenting your momas like an eight-year-old?
Oh, 100%.
Yeah.
(12:22):
I was taking care of my littlesister, and I was I was cooking,
I was cleaning, I was doingeverything.
I remember uh I would cook umfood in our backyard using the
barbecue because we didn't haveany power.
And the food that we were eatingwas uh given to us by the
neighbor who was also on drugs,but he would go to the store and
all of their perishable itemsthat they were throwing out, he
(12:43):
would get those and then hewould bring them to us.
So you know, we were eatingstuff that was expired.
SPEAKER_01 (12:48):
Wow.
Okay, so like uh eventually youyou know, you you don't die.
Uh was you serious in anygunfights or anything like that
with your mom and drug the drugworld?
SPEAKER_00 (12:59):
No, there were threats.
I remember one time um theypulled up to get drugs, and uh
my sister and I were waiting inthe car, and all I remember is
seeing my stepdad do like thisKung Fu like front kick uh to
knock a uh uh it wasn't a gun,it was a knife out of somebody's
hand.
And then there was another timewhere a guy uh threatened to
come to our house and shoot usuh because it was drug related.
(13:20):
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (13:21):
Okay, so eventually you get you know you survive,
you make it to high school,right?
Or like what are you still withyour like you're now a teenager,
still living in the in the Solet me go back to uh this house
instead.
SPEAKER_00 (13:36):
Um everything came to a climax in that house.
Uh dad's again in jail, mom'sfocused on drugs.
She's got a boyfriend now atthis time.
Um what ends up happening is Didhe officially adopt you?
No, he never adopted me.
Okay, so my last name's Badgley.
That's the same last name as asmy grandpa.
Got it.
Okay.
(13:58):
You just get to choose what yourlast name is.
It doesn't have to match yourdad.
Yeah.
So um I'm in this house, nopower, and we're using this
fireplace that my stepdad hadmade right before he went to
jail.
And it was like a potbellystove, and and uh it was a metal
chimney that went to the roof.
And so I fall asleep that night.
Uh, it's very cold in thewintertime in Reno, and I'm next
(14:18):
to my baby sister.
Uh, she was four at the time,and I wake up and there's fire
across the ceiling.
And I wake up in a panic, I lookat the couch, there's some
random guy.
He's strung out on drugs.
He's literally staring at theceiling, not doing anything,
just tripping out.
And I get up, I run to the backof the house where my mom and
her boyfriend were at, and I'mpounding on the door.
We gotta go, we gotta get out ofhere.
(14:39):
The house is on fire.
She doesn't believe me.
I end up like, I don't know howI got her out of there, but I
got her out of there.
We get across uh to theneighbor's house across the
street, and my house is just onfire.
And I remember that nightwatching firefighters put out uh
the fire at my house, and I hadthis overwhelming peace because
I'm like, there's been nothingbut nightmares in this house for
(15:01):
the last, you know, three, fouryears because of all the
addiction that my uh parentswere going through and and all
the turmoil and the trauma.
And I wake up the next day, goto school, and I get called to
the office, and they're theysaid, Bring your backpack.
And I'd been in the office alot.
I was a troublemaker and I was Iwas always seeking attention.
But CPS had been coming toschool nonstop, and this was the
(15:22):
first time they said bring yourbackpack.
I show up to the office, mymom's there.
She just looks, you know, strungout and and you know, going on a
bender, that type of a thing.
And she said, You're you'regonna go live with your
grandparents.
And I'm so confused at thispoint.
I'm like, what is going on?
I go out to the parking lot, myaunt's there in her uh in her
truck.
It was uh a two-door, uh, very,very tiny truck, might have been
(15:44):
like a Ford Ranger or something.
My baby sister's in the middleseat, our bags are packed,
one-way ticket to to uh Seattle,Washington to go live with my
grandparents.
And the next day I'm in adifferent school.
Uh, my birthday, my 10thbirthday is like, you know, a
week from that point.
SPEAKER_01 (15:57):
Okay, so at 10 years old, at your grandparents'
house, that's when you find outyour that wasn't your buttons,
your mom was raped.
SPEAKER_00 (16:04):
So, no, I don't find out that truth of of how it was
conceived until my freshman yearof high school.
Um, I found out from my momafter all of this.
I went to go visit her that nextsummer.
I was about 11 years old.
And uh she told me, you know,hey, uh Rick's not your not your
dad.
And she's she's bawling, she'scrying, she's thinking I'm gonna
hate her for this news.
(16:24):
I remember being I was relieved.
I was like, thank you, you know.
Um there's some things I canlook at and say, you know, I'm
I'm very thankful for him.
Uh like I I I'm involved inwrestling, I help coach
wrestling, and uh that wouldn'tbe in my life if he hadn't got
me involved in it.
Um he gave me a lot of examplesof what not to do, and he was at
least someone that was willingto be there as a father, uh
(16:47):
despite all of his abuse andeverything else, you know.
But but yeah, I was relieved.
SPEAKER_01 (16:52):
Okay, so you're now you're now with your
grandparents in your 10.
SPEAKER_00 (16:56):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (16:56):
In Seattle.
SPEAKER_00 (16:57):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (16:58):
And did things sort of get normal from there?
SPEAKER_00 (17:00):
Yeah, they do.
It was uh it was a trip.
You know, I went from Reno.
Uh I was one of the only whitekids in my neighborhood, you
know.
I remember like um yeah, likegoing through lots of bowling
because of that.
I had a guy hold a knife to mythroat one time when I was a
kid, yeah, uh, just because Iwas white.
Um, but I go from that situationto now I'm living in Oso,
(17:22):
Washington, which is this tinycommunity in the middle of
nowhere.
The like their claim to fame isthat they had this mudslide
happen in uh 2013, I think itwas.
Um, but other than that, youwouldn't even uh have ever heard
of this town.
I mean, it's a tiny, tinypopulation out in the mountains
in the middle of nowhere.
So I go from this very, very,you know, large city to the the
(17:43):
middle of nowhere.
Okay, so things start tonormalize.
SPEAKER_01 (17:46):
So things start to normalize.
Your sister's with you?
Yes, my sister's with me.
Your grandparents are there, anduh Okay, so so then tell me
like, does your mom come back inthe picture at all?
SPEAKER_00 (17:58):
Yeah.
So man, you ask great questions,Plek.
Um so yes, that this is a prettyuh crucial part of of how I came
to Jesus.
Um the whole time I was praying,from 10 all the way up until she
did come back in my life, myfreshman year.
You were what, 14?
Yeah, probably 14 at the time.
I'm praying this whole entiretime.
I I wouldn't have called myselfa Christian.
(18:18):
I wouldn't have.
I didn't even know what it meantto have a relationship with
Christ.
My only influence was for mygrandma.
She's Catholic, and we would,she's like uh, what do they call
them?
Uh cradle Catholics, you know,like they just don't go to
church that often.
Uh but she is a firm believer.
And so that was it.
I didn't know you could have arelationship with Christ.
But I knew, like, man, if youprayed to this God, uh, he's
gonna answer your prayer.
(18:39):
That's what I did.
And I thought, if my mom couldcome back in my life, this hole
in my heart would get filledagain.
Because I remember when she wassober as a kid, she was an
awesome mom.
She was a soccer mom, she wasjust great.
The drugs uh is where everythingwent went bad.
So I just prayed, man, if shecan come back in my life, get
off drugs, things would be good.
She does.
(18:59):
She ends up coming back into mylife at 14.
Yeah.
It's like a scene out of amovie, long driveway on this
country road.
This random car comes down, outcomes my mom.
She gets dropped off all the wayfrom Reno, Nevada, out of
nowhere.
And again, she looks strung out.
She looks like she's beenabusing drugs, you know.
You can just picture that inyour head.
And I'm thinking, my my prayersare answered.
(19:21):
My mom is here.
Yeah.
She quits methanthetamines, coldturkey.
That's like insane.
That's insane.
That's insane.
So I watch her go throughwithdrawal, the withdrawal, the
sickness, everything.
And the whole time I'm justwaiting.
My mom, like this picture I had,my mom's coming back into my
life, things are gonna be good.
It was the complete opposite.
The drugs had totally impactedher brain, dopamine levels,
(19:45):
serotonin levels shot.
Um she wasn't the same person,you know.
And and not only that, but youjuxtaposed that next to the fact
that I'm a teenager, I've gotall these hormones, and this
lady wants to be my mom againand is trying to be like my mom.
Mom.
And I fought that.
I had a lot of anger towardsher.
All of this.
One day we get in this bigargument, and uh and it just hit
(20:09):
me.
You know, all this hurt that Ihad bottled up.
I'm thinking that didn't solveit.
Her coming back and sober didn'tsolve it.
And in fact, things are worsenow because she's in the picture
living with my grandparents.
There's a lot of conflict andtension now.
It all culminated.
And I remember grabbing a ropeand I went out to uh the woods.
My grandparents had four acres.
I go out to the woods, I tie arope around my neck, I tie it
(20:31):
around uh a branch, and I try tohang myself.
And that branch broke.
And I remember just sittingthere on uh on the ground
looking up, just going likethere's there's gotta be
something better than this outthere.
You know, there's gotta be a Godout there.
(20:52):
I remember like light shiningthrough the branches, and I'm
thinking, I I know that I justgot saved.
But I didn't have an answer forit.
I didn't have anybody in mylife, you know, tell me about
Christ at that time.
So I just thought, uh, shoot, Igive up.
You know, I'm gonna I'm gonnago.
This sounds crazy, but I'm like,I'm gonna go party, I'm gonna go
pursue women, I'm gonna gopursue drugs.
(21:14):
And I had some buddies of mineum that uh they were already
getting into pot and weed anddoing all that kind of stuff and
drinking and partying, and I'dbeen telling them no up to this
point.
And uh I was like, you knowwhat, I'm gonna go do that.
And it was around that sameexact time that my mom told me
uh about the truth of of hergetting raped and how it was
conceived.
(21:34):
Um we were driving with my newstepdad, and uh and he he made
some sort of comment about it,and uh my mom was like don't say
anything.
And and he's like, You haven'ttold him?
And I'm like, Told me what?
And she goes, No, I haven't toldhim.
And he's like, You need to tellhim.
And she told me right then andthere in the car that uh you
(21:57):
know she was raped, and that'show I was conceived.
And it was that night that I waslike, Okay, yeah, I'm definitely
gonna go smoke some weed.
I'm gonna go get drunk, and Igot more drunk and high than
I've ever been in my entirelife.
Wow.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:09):
Okay, so then at what point is the like the
message of the gospel come toyou?
SPEAKER_00 (22:16):
Yeah, thank God for Jesus.
Um association's everything.
Yeah.
And I start getting around adifferent uh different group of
friends.
Um how?
SPEAKER_01 (22:25):
Like, how did you say, I'm not gonna hang around
these drug addicts anymore?
I'm gonna hang around Jesuspeople.
Like who thinks like that?
I mean, how does that happen?
SPEAKER_00 (22:32):
I I can't even remember exactly how it
happened, to be honest with you.
It's just a school thing.
I remember just, you know, umgoing into my junior year and uh
different classmates and uhbecome really good friends with
a guy I'd known for a long time,but we weren't really close up
until this point.
And his family was a Christianfamily, and he wasn't yet a
Christian.
Ironically, he's a pastor nowout uh oh out in Paris, Texas.
(22:54):
Oh, nice.
He moved from Seattle to Paris,Texas.
He's what's his name?
We have we we have an audienceout in Paris, Texas.
Hey, shout out to CorbinAnderson.
Corbin Anderson, yes, thanks forlistening.
Calvary Chapel.
All right.
Um, so it his family was justbeautiful.
Yeah.
Um, he had a similar story tome, and he was being raised by
his grandparents.
And I remember going over totheir house and being like, this
(23:15):
is different.
This isn't this is a really coolfamily.
They got together all the time.
They went to church on Sundays,and I was like, I really, really
like this.
He was involved with young life.
Nice.
That's how I became a Christian.
Nice through young life.
Yeah, young life's awesome.
SPEAKER_01 (23:28):
Yeah.
Okay.
So was it like a young lifewhere you go to Colorado, or was
it young life where through likethe school, or what was it?
SPEAKER_00 (23:34):
Yep.
So we're up in Seattle,Washington at this time, and uh
uh I'm 17.
It was a summer between myjunior and my senior year.
I'd been going to Young Life nowpretty consistently for a year,
but had not gone to their campduring the summer.
Nice the summer before I'dmissed out on it.
I'm like, nah, I'm not gonna go.
This summer, uh the leader wentup to me and he's like, Hey,
(23:56):
look, someone paid for you.
Uh you got a scholarship andyou're you're going.
Wow.
And he said, it's gonna be thebest week of your life.
What year was that?
This was oh gosh, this was 2010.
Nice.
Yep.
Okay, so you go to Young Life.
Yes.
I go to this camp up in uh uhwhat was it, British Columbia?
Up in Canada.
Okay.
Yeah, it's called Malibu.
Oh, wow.
It's on the Princess LouiseInlet in the middle of nowhere,
(24:18):
beautiful.
You gotta take like three busesand three ferries to get there.
It's insane.
So I go and I'm thinking, thisis gonna suck.
I'm on, you know, I'm on thistrip with all these Christian
kids.
I thought they were allChristian.
I found out, you know, laterthat they they weren't.
Um I'm like, this is gonna suck.
But I hear the story of theprodigal son.
And uh I'm sitting in front ofuh a pastor, he's telling the
(24:40):
story, and it's just like thisscene right here on this, you
know, we've got the stage here,we've got your your auditorium
here.
I'm sitting like somewhere overby that pole, basically.
I'm off in the distance.
Yeah.
And uh he starts telling thestory of the prodigal son.
And I'm listening going, what'sgonna happen to this, this son?
You know, he goes off and he hashis crazy adventure, squanders
(25:01):
all of his wealth, tells hisdad, F you, I'm out of here, I'm
gone.
And I'm thinking, I can relateto that right now.
I'm kind of doing the samething.
But I had felt this tug fromJesus by going to Young Life,
you know, and I'm like, maybethis, maybe this Jesus thing is
is right.
Well, it was in this story thatI realized that I could have a
relationship with Jesus becauseas I'm listening to the son
(25:22):
going back to his dad, I'mrelating it to my relationship
with my stepfather growing up.
And if I did the wrong thing, Igot beat for it.
Right.
I'm thinking, this son's gonnaget beat, you know, his dad's
gonna show him what's up.
And uh this is gonna be a badsituation.
That's the last place you shouldgo if you're in trouble.
And then I hear the dad runs tohim with open arms and embraces
(25:46):
his son with joy and throws abig party.
And I'm thinking, this isinsane.
And it clicked right then andthere, and I could hear God tell
me, that's what I want to be toyou.
I want to be your father, I wantyou to be my son.
And I was a kid over there, justlike bawling, man, like demons
(26:08):
coming out, just like hurtcoming out, all this bottled up
hurt.
And I remember the uh guy thatwas talking, he he like made eye
contact with me, and I couldtell he was like, What is
happening to that kid overthere?
SPEAKER_01 (26:19):
And that day I gave my life to Christ.
Okay, that's exciting.
Okay, so you give your life toChrist at 17.
Uh do you head back to Seattleand like everything's you know
different?
Like you tell your mom, whatwhat do you do?
SPEAKER_00 (26:34):
Yeah, um, I I kind of left something out of the
story here.
So just before I go off to thisyoung life camp, I'd actually uh
I was homeless.
What do you mean by homeless?
So my sophomore year, sofreshman year mom comes in the
picture.
Um, she ends up getting custodyof me.
Don't ask me how that happened,but she did.
And she's with my new stepdadnow and my uh little brother.
(26:57):
And so they have a lot ofconflict with my grandparents.
They end up leaving and they gointo a homeless shelter and they
take me with them.
So my sophomore year, I'm livingin a homeless shelter.
So could you not stay with yourgrandparents?
I don't know how I didn't end upstaying with them.
There was conflict um that theyhad, and uh, I just ended up
(27:17):
going with them.
You know, it was like they toldme one side of the story.
I didn't hear my grandpa's sideof the story at the time, and
they were like, you just got tocome with us, and they just took
me and away I went.
So I'm living in this homelessshelter for a period of time
during my sophomore year.
Uh, into going into my junioryear, they end up getting into
section eight housing,transitional housing.
And uh it was that summer, rightbefore I go off to camp, uh,
(27:40):
that uh I find uh my mom's drugstaff.
She got back on drugs, sherelapsed.
I took a picture on a littleflip phone that I had, printed
it off, and I said, I wrote onthe back of this picture, I'm
I'm leaving.
Uh, don't call the cops.
If you do, I've got this pictureon my phone and I'll show them
what's going on.
And I packed up my stuff in a uha plastic uh garbage bag and I
(28:02):
left.
I took a bus.
Uh I went from uh Evert,Washington to Arlington,
Washington, where I was going toschool.
And uh my friend picked me upand I spent that summer at my
friend's house, and that wasthat same friend that took me to
the Young Life camp.
Wow.
Yeah, wow.
So I come back from camp.
That was your question, and uh Ibecome a student leader.
Um at this time I'm now livingwith a different friend of mine.
(28:24):
Uh his dad becomes like a dad tome.
In fact, I talked to him today.
Shout out to Dale Shipman.
Um and uh I I lived there mysenior year and finished out my
senior year there.
And they just so happen to benext door neighbors to uh my
wife, Britney.
SPEAKER_01 (28:38):
Oh, wow.
Okay, so you are 17 when youmeet your wife.
Yes.
And then is she your same age?
Or is she like one year younger?
Younger.
Okay.
So she was, I guess, a sophomorewhen you were junior, or you
were a senior, she's a junior.
Yeah, I'm going into my seniorat this time, and she's a
junior.
Okay, so then you you guys startdating then?
Yes.
(28:59):
Okay, and then when do you guysget married?
SPEAKER_00 (29:01):
We got married, uh, we were in college.
This was 2014.
So I was a junior in college andshe was a sophomore.
SPEAKER_01 (29:09):
Nice.
SPEAKER_02 (29:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:09):
Okay, and so you guys get married, and then uh
like was she a believer herwhole life kind of thing, or
what was her story?
SPEAKER_00 (29:17):
Yes.
So she's been a believer herwhole life.
Um, her both of her parents areare Christian.
She was raised in a Christianhome.
Um and uh she started coming toYoung Life Club.
That's how we ended upconnecting.
Oh, cool.
It's I hate telling this part ofthe story, but it's the truth.
Um, I I originally met her whenI was 16, but I was dating a
different girl, and this wasbefore I was a Christian.
Yes.
(29:37):
And and she was witnessing tothis girl that I was dating.
And I remember meeting her forthe first time, Brittany, and I
shook her hand, and you've mether, she's just got this way
about her.
SPEAKER_02 (29:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:47):
And I was like, I'm in love with this girl.
And I was I remember thinking, Iwish I was a good enough person
to date somebody like this.
Oh, that's cool.
And then a year later, I becamea Christian, turned everything
around, stopped doing drugs,stopped partying, became a
student leader.
She starts coming to Young LifeClub, and I'm like, there's that
girl again.
And uh, we became friends atfirst.
Um, I asked her to prom and uhshe said yes, which was
(30:11):
surprising.
She had a lot of guys askingher.
I don't know how why she choseto go with me.
She thought I'd be fun, is whatshe said.
And uh I remember thinking, Iwant to marry this girl.
And and I heard God's voice tellme, like, that's gonna be your
wife.
Wow.
Yeah.
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (30:24):
Okay, so you marry her.
Like, how have you like withyour mom?
Like, did she is she alive?
Did she pass?
Like, what what happened?
SPEAKER_00 (30:35):
Yeah, so uh she ended up moving to Mammoth,
Arizona years ago.
Mammoth is like uh in the middleof nowhere outside of Tucson,
like an hour and a half outsideof Tucson, middle of the desert.
It's a small little blimp on theon the radar.
She's been there ever since.
Um, I think she's doing a lotbetter.
I don't talk to her as much asyeah as I used to.
(30:57):
Um or you know, there's nothingstrained between us.
I love her, and I know that youknow, deep down she she really
loves me.
Um, but it's just uh just not arelationship that I've kept up
with.
That's hard.
Yeah, it's very hard.
And and I felt challenged aboutthat because you had talked
recently on on uh on the uh oneof your podcasts, your other
podcast, about uh honoring yourmother and your father.
(31:19):
Yeah, you know, and so I've beenreally wrestling with that a
lot.
SPEAKER_01 (31:21):
Oh, it's a it's so hard to wrestle with, especially
when there's so much pain andhurt and just all of that um to
not have bitterness sort of sinkin and to really honor and love
your mom.
You know, I always say thisforgiveness is given, trust is
earned.
And so you can give forgiveness,but the trust to have your you
know, your mom have access toyour kids, that takes yeah, you
(31:44):
know, like you know, she doesn'thave that trust.
Right.
And that's okay.
Right.
Um, but but that's that's thepart where um allowing the Lord
to work and redeem the years thelocusts have stolen kind of
thing.
Um okay, so talk to me now aboutwhat it's like for you to how
many kids do you have now?
Two.
And so you have two kids, andtell me what it's like to
(32:07):
without having a background ofknowing what you're supposed to
do as a dad.
You didn't see it, yeah, youdidn't uh experience like this
is what dads do.
They lead devotionals or they doplay guitar and sing Christian
songs, or like without thatexperience, what how what have
you, you know, as as I thinkyou're not alone in this.
(32:28):
I think a lot of men uh they getsaved, they don't have a
background of how do I raise afamily to follow the Lord?
What are you doing?
And if you don't have an answerto this, that that's totally
okay.
Uh, what are you doing now tosort of lead your family towards
Christ?
And maybe that's part of like,you know, we're going, I'm
leaving the church, which ishuge.
But what what and how old areyour kids?
And and what are you doing tokind of train them um to fall in
(32:51):
love with Jesus without havingthe crazy story that you have?
SPEAKER_00 (32:55):
Yeah.
Um, my kids love Jesus.
Yeah.
Like if they were right here,they'd tell you all about Jesus.
Uh I remember we we played agame recently, we're just kind
of role-playing, goofing around,and uh, I was this uh this
principal uh that they they toldme this whole story.
Like, you got to be this badprincipal, and Jackson's gonna
be the new kid in school, andand and Peyton's the teacher.
(33:15):
So she brings him into theoffice, and I'm acting like this
mean principal.
Well, you know, off script, hehe stops and he goes, Do you
know who Jesus is?
You know, and he starts tellingme about the gospel, and and
then I, you know, find Jesus andbecome this nice principal.
Uh so you know, my kids loveJesus.
That's great.
And I'm I I wish I could giveanyone who's listening to this.
(33:35):
Like, how did you reproducethat?
How did you produce that?
Like, what did you do?
Oh, God is good, Pleck.
God is good.
That's all I can say.
Um intentionality, I think yourexample's everything, you know.
And uh I've always studied uhthose that I want to exemplify
and be like.
And I've had uh uh if outside ofGod, I think I've had the
(33:56):
blessing of having good men inmy life that I've been able to
uh go, you know what, I'll Iwant to take a little bit from
from you and a little bit fromyou and a little bit from you.
SPEAKER_01 (34:04):
Give me give me one of those things that like you
know, uh one of the men in yourlife, you know, maybe it's Dale
Shipman, like you you look back,one thing that he said or did or
whatever, and then you don'teven maybe not even till you
think of it now, like I do thisbecause I saw him do that.
SPEAKER_00 (34:20):
Um yeah, Dale Shipman, uh how he treats
people, you know, how he carrieshimself.
Uh he's always giving.
Yeah.
Ironically, a lot of the the menI had in my life, uh, they
weren't they weren't ever strongChristian men.
Uh it's the weirdest thing.
But you know, as I'm I'mjourneying this, you know, the
this journey with Christ and andand uh trying to be a man after
(34:43):
his heart, like God throws thesethese men in my life and and
gave me great examples fromthem.
So Dale's one of them, and howhe treats other people, um, how
he loved his his kids umunconditionally.
Um there's a lot of Christ-likecharacteristics that that man
has.
Um Keith Dumb, what a great lastname.
Dumb.
(35:03):
Dumb, yes.
Yes, yeah, D-U-M-M.
SPEAKER_01 (35:07):
Yes.
D-U-M-M.
That's might as well be as Imean, uh, you just imagine his
life in school.
All right, go ahead.
SPEAKER_00 (35:11):
Yeah, exactly.
This guy, again, not a strongChristian.
Um, he he uh actually diedrecently, uh, but lived an
amazing life.
He was an older man, he was myfirst boss I ever had.
He was he owned a landscapingcompany.
Yeah, and uh this guy was acharacter.
We were working out in BillGates' neighborhood, landscaping
out there.
That was one of my jobs incollege.
Wow.
And he would come and pick me upevery single morning in his van,
(35:34):
and we'd sit in trap in Seattletraffic, which is crazy.
And uh for you know, an hour anda half in the morning, hour and
a half in the evening, I wouldjust learn from this guy.
And just he had tons and tons ofwisdom.
He had a lightheartedness abouthim, he treated people amazing.
Um, and so I I learned fromthese guys.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (35:51):
No, that's really good.
Is there anything specificallythat you do now as a dad uh to
invest in your kids?
Like, like for them to knowanything about Jesus means you
had to have an intentionality.
Was that like you send them toChristian school?
I mean, what is that?
They've always, I mean, again,it's your example.
Um, and your example Like you'retelling them about Jesus
clearly, because they're wantingto evangelize to the bad
(36:12):
principal.
So, like, what is that?
SPEAKER_00 (36:14):
I I don't think that an example comes from
necessarily the words that youspeak as much as your actions
and what they can see.
And so just even showing up tochurch and making that a
priority, I think that's that'sa huge first step.
Um they've always been involvedwith things at church, you know,
whether it was a wana or kidsclub or what have you.
Yeah, um, the the Bible is thecenter in our home, you know.
(36:37):
We we do uh consistent Biblereading together.
SPEAKER_01 (36:40):
Oh yeah.
So talk to me about that.
How do you what what by likewhat Bible are you reading and
what plan are you following?
What are you doing?
I wish I could say we'refollowing a plan.
SPEAKER_00 (36:48):
Uh but we just open it up, we kind of read.
We we open it up and and westart reading, you know, and and
um like very similar to how wedo it in our men's group.
Yeah, same thing.
Open up the Bible, we're goingthrough Proverbs, and so it's
like we're reading a chapter aday to get the devil away.
Shout out to a chapter a day.
That's a that is literally oneof the best podcasts ever.
(37:08):
Listen to that every single day.
So I follow that same format.
It's just a chapter a day withthe kids.
We go through it and uh and itmost days they they probably
hate it, but I think deep downthey love it.
Uh and I say they hate itbecause I'll wake them up at
seven o'clock in the morning andget them out of bed and and
we're open up the Bible andwe're reading together, and then
you know, hey Jackson, what'dyou get out of that?
Ah, dad, I'm still, you know,open up my eyes, that kind of a
(37:31):
thing.
But uh and you guys arehomeschooling.
Yes.
And talking Brittany, Brittany'shomeschooling.
SPEAKER_01 (37:35):
Right, right, of course.
SPEAKER_00 (37:36):
Uh I'm the substitute teacher every once in
a while.
SPEAKER_01 (37:38):
And the principal.
Yeah, and the principal, that'sright.
Okay, so uh talk to me aboutthat decision.
Give me like your your uh yourthoughts.
Yeah.
I never thought we were gonnahomeschool.
I think it's made all thedifference.
Yeah.
Um because clearly you havegodly kids.
SPEAKER_00 (37:51):
Thank you.
And you clearly your wife hashad something to do with that.
Absolutely.
She's been a huge, huge, hugeinfluence.
Um, I think they see ourrelationship too, you know, and
that speaks volumes.
So as far as homeschool goes, Inever thought I'd homeschool our
kids.
Uh Brittany was in violentopposition to it.
Really?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Growing up, uh, you know, whenwe had always talked about
(38:11):
having kids and when that wasgonna happen, that was the last
thing on our list.
We wanted to to put them inprivate school.
Right.
And we did that.
We we moved to Texas, we putthem in a private school.
Which one do you go to?
Uh I won't say because we had abad experience.
Yes, fair enough.
That experience uh kind ofturned into a a weird scam.
Okay.
Uh so I I won't uh won't shoutout that name.
Uh, but because of that badexperience, we're like, well,
(38:32):
let's let's try homeschooling.
And we got into Was it duringthe pandemic?
SPEAKER_01 (38:36):
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Because I everybody gavehomeschool a shot.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (38:39):
Yeah, you're your your bacon bread and your
homeschooling kids.
You become a sourdough expert.
Every woman now is a sourdoughexpert.
I love it.
Yes.
Um, and and so uh we picked upuh I think it's called the bold
and the beautiful.
Okay, that's what it's called.
Uh-huh.
Um, it's an amazing curriculum.
Nice and uh it's very easy tofollow and it's fun.
Yeah.
I'm I'm look I go through andI'm like, this is more fun than
(39:02):
school.
This is crazy.
But they teach them amazingthings.
It's it's uh uh it's a Christiancurriculum.
Nice.
So um they just glean a lot fromit from a Christian perspective.
SPEAKER_01 (39:10):
Okay, and then how socialization, uh your kids play
sports.
Yes.
Or is that is that what they'reyep, yep.
SPEAKER_00 (39:17):
So that's kind of the homeschool stigma, right?
It's like how are you gonnasocialize your kids?
We are a busy family.
Yeah, we we're always doingstuff and we're always with
people.
So they're constantly aroundpeople.
Um both of them play baseballand softball.
Oh, fun.
And uh they're really darn goodat it.
They that's their sport, theylove it.
And then I make them wrestle.
Uh they would probably choosenot to.
(39:39):
Although Jackson, he's he'sstarting to fall in love with
it.
Uh, but I make them do that justout of just to have discipline
and and uh and grittiness.
SPEAKER_01 (39:46):
And where do you guys go uh train for wrestling?
SPEAKER_00 (39:48):
Yeah, yeah.
Shout out to Nick Janowitz, uhPatriot MMA.
Um, that's where we go.
I've I volunteer there as a as acoach and the kids go there.
SPEAKER_01 (39:56):
Yeah.
Oh, that's awesome.
Okay, so now talk to me aboutlike.
Just a vision for your familynow.
Like with the past that you'veexperienced and the brokenness
that you've experienced, isthere any part of you that says,
like, you know, ministry-wise, Iwant to, I want to speak into
some teenagers' lives or speakinto kids' lives or speaking to
addicts' lives, uh, children ofaddicts.
(40:18):
I mean, like, is there is ithave you ever thought like
through like the unbelievableuntapped resource that you are
for the amount of people outthere that are just in crazy
situations?
SPEAKER_00 (40:28):
Yeah, yeah, I absolutely do.
And I appreciate you uh evengiving me a platform pleque and
and thinking so much about mystory.
Um I I would love for God to useme wherever he wants to use me,
you know, and I don't know whatthat looks like.
I I have a heart for forstudents.
I thought for a long time I'd beinvolved with young life.
If you would have asked me, youknow, 10 years ago where I
(40:49):
thought I'd be at, I thought I'dbe probably involved in
something like that at thispoint.
Or I'd even thought about beinga pastor when I was in college.
Um, life just kind of took adifferent turn.
Um, but uh I'm at a season nowwhere I'm definitely looking for
it.
I'm definitely wanting to getmore involved.
SPEAKER_01 (41:03):
There might be a recruitment involved shortly
after this podcast.
SPEAKER_00 (41:07):
Well, you you did tell me about solving the
homeless crisis, and that's beenconstantly on my mind.
SPEAKER_01 (41:14):
Oh yeah, just for in case anyone was wondering, I had
this weird, it was just weird.
So and I told I told you aboutit.
I don't even know, like I don'tknow if this is the podcast to
share about, but here I go.
Uh a couple, about a month ago,I I had this dream.
And the dream was I just I waslike, you know, I was messing
with my ear, and all of a suddenearwax started pouring out.
Like, I don't know how earwaxcan pour out, but it was like
(41:35):
all over the place and it wasgross and orange and yellowy.
And I was like, wow, that's alot of earwax.
That feels I'm so glad that'sout of there.
And I wake up.
That was that was a dream.
And I've and I and normally youjust go, huh, weird dream.
And I'd forget out.
But the problem was I keptthinking about the dream.
And it's like, why do I keepthinking about this dream?
I was like, I don't know, maybethat means that you know my ears
need to be cleared out to hearsomething from the Lord.
(41:57):
And then last Wednesday, uh, soit was what last one week ago, I
uh have this um, I wake up inthe morning and it's like a
louder than audible, you know,it just it, you know, I didn't
hear a voice, but just like itwas just solve the homeless
crisis.
Now, solve the homeless crisis.
(42:19):
I don't know what that means.
I just was like, what a weirdthing.
And then of course that morning,my in my quiet time, it was, you
know, um, the woman at uh Simonthe Leopard's house, and she
starts anointing Jesus' feet.
And then Judas gets angry.
It's like, this could have beenused for all the poor.
And Jesus is like, hey, whatdon't mess with this woman.
What she's done is a beautifulthing to me.
You'll always have the pooramong you.
(42:39):
And I was like, what does thismean?
You know.
And so that's why I thrust itupon you.
Yeah.
And so there you go.
You might have to do, I don'tknow.
I I I just I'm I'm just now justlike telling people, so waiting
for the next step of solving thehomeless crisis, if that indeed
is what I'm supposed to do.
It was just a very strange.
It could have been just I hadpizza the night before and it
just kind of hit me in a quicknonetheless.
(43:01):
At this point, I'm I'm open tothe next step.
So if anybody has a plan for thesolve the homeless crisis, and
people keep saying, maybe it'slike solving the spiritually
homeless crisis.
I'm like, okay, here, come tochurch.
Take it.
Yeah.
Take it.
Yeah.
So I don't know.
Um all that to say, yeah, I I Ifeel like the Lord has great
plans for you, and I can't waitto see what uh that will look
(43:22):
like as we move forward, gettingto know each other.
And I'm just really gratefulyou've been at our church and uh
really looking forward to theministry that you and Britney
collectively have um because ofthe just the vibrance you guys
bring.
Thank you.
Wherever you go.
SPEAKER_00 (43:35):
It's just I I would say to go back to your question,
like probably one of my main uhfocuses right now in my heart is
just bringing more people tothis church.
Okay, yeah.
Well, hey, that's a win.
This is an incredible church.
Um and uh uh I've got a uh likea list on my phone of like when
I meet a new person, if I caninvite them here, I do.
And uh if they don't come, Ikeep them on the list and I and
(43:58):
I pray for them and I and Ireach out to them weekly to
either try to get them to themen's group or to try to show up
on Sundays.
And so that's that's like mymain uh mission right now
outside of you know raisingkids.
SPEAKER_01 (44:08):
All right, now let's talk this one sec.
I I want there's this is gonnathis is gonna pass around to
someone's gonna get thispodcast, and um either it's a
mom who is strung out on drugs,they think they're complete
failures, um they're they'rejust like I ruined my kids'
life.
What challenge, whatencouragement could you give to
(44:29):
a mom like that?
SPEAKER_00 (44:32):
I think if anyone uh is listening to this and is in
that situation, um I'd want youto hear God's voice.
I'd want you to hear Jesustelling you right now that I
love you, I'm proud of you, andyou are mine.
Um I think that's where itstarts.
Yeah.
That's and uh if they are inthat situation and and y you are
(44:53):
a mom that's struggling withthat, or uh maybe you you've
been on the the tail end of it,um but healing doesn't happen
overnight, but uh man, it youwould be amazed at what Christ
can do in your life, and uhthat's where healing starts.
SPEAKER_01 (45:10):
Okay, then on the flip side, what about um a young
man just feeling abandoned byparents?
Um what would you what advice,what what challenge would you
give him?
SPEAKER_00 (45:25):
I tell him the same thing.
Um But I'm telling I would tellhim it's gonna be alright, you
know.
I tell him um there's greatpeople around you that really
want to help you out and it'sokay to ask for help.
It's okay uh to be vulnerableand uh you are loved and and you
(45:50):
can get through it, and you'vegot a bright future ahead of
you.
You've got an amazingopportunity to turn things
around for your family and to tochange a legacy.
SPEAKER_01 (46:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (46:03):
Um your kids, your grandkids, your great grandkids
never have to go through whatyou went through uh if you make
the right decisions and getaround the right people.
That's awesome, bro.
SPEAKER_01 (46:14):
Man, that's encouraging.
Can't wait to hear how the storycontinues to unfold.
Hey, thanks so much forwatching.
If you got any questions, youcan text us at 737-231-0605.
We'd love to hear from you.
Uh, we can bring Matt Badgleyback at some point and be like,
tell us a follow up on like howyou're continuing to transform
the world.
Uh, we'd love to hear from youas we talk faith, culture, and
(46:34):
everything in between.
Thanks so much for watching.
We'll see you next time.
But until then, have an awesomeweek of worship.
Welcome back to Pastor Plex Podcast.
I'm your host, Pastor Plex, andjoining me today is someone I'm
very excited about.
Matthew, I want you to give usMatt.
Matt.
SPEAKER_00 (00:16):
Yeah.
Matt.
Yeah.
My wife calls me Matthew, and uhit's a term of endearment, or
I'm in trouble.
So Matt Matt's the way to getit.
SPEAKER_01 (00:23):
All right.
So get tell us who you are.
Tell us where you came from.
Tell us like um just the basicsof of how you came to the
church.
And then we're gonna I want toget into because once I heard
your, I don't know, real truestory, whole story, whole
biography, yeah.
It's pretty wild.
SPEAKER_00 (00:37):
Yeah, well, I'll do the uh the abridged version.
So uh I've been a uh Christianfor 15 years now.
Uh been with my wife since highschool, or high school
sweethearts.
I've got two kids, uh Jackson,he's six, and Peyton is eight
years old.
And we've been in Texas since2019.
We moved here from Seattle.
SPEAKER_01 (00:55):
That's wild.
Okay, and your wife's Britney.
Yes, Brittany Badgley.
And she's so great.
So, okay, so Matt, what thething that struck me about your
life is, and I want you uh, youknow, share as much as you feel
comfortable.
You you shared even this morningthat you were conceived in rape.
Yes.
So, like that to me wasmind-blowing.
(01:16):
Because usually what people sayin an argument um for abortion,
yeah, is what about somebody whouh rapes someone and then they
should or that mom should havethe ability to terminate that
pregnancy.
Now, so can you tell give uslike the background of like of
(01:41):
your story and let's get intothat a little bit?
SPEAKER_00 (01:43):
Yeah, yeah.
So that's something I've I'vethought about a lot, as is it's
been really prevalent in ourculture.
And I've only seen one exampleonline where someone's actually
talked about their story and howthey were conceived through
rape.
So I would imagine it's it'sprobably more of a rare thing.
But I think I saw it on aCharlie Kirk video of all
things.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, but that that's my story.
That's that's where uh myrelationship with Christ starts,
(02:04):
believe it or not.
Okay, yeah.
Um yeah, it's pretty wild tothink that, but um I think
everything happens for a reason.
I really do, and that's a storythat God gave me.
So it goes like this.
My mom, uh, she's she struggledwith drug addiction her entire
life.
And so um, she told me uh thatshe was in a rehab clinic and
she met this man, and that manended up being my biological
father.
(02:25):
Um and they became really goodfriends.
And uh while they were in therehab clinic, they had agreed
that uh when he got out, uh hewould come pick her up once her
date ended.
She was gonna be there a littlebit longer than him.
And so they made thisarrangement.
She gets out and she meets him,she gets in his car, and they
start driving, and she realizesthat he's high on something, she
(02:47):
doesn't know what.
But he starts going off and andhe's talking about this plan
that he has to go rob this guyand how he's gonna use her to
sleep with him.
And while that's happening, he'sgonna sneak in and steal all
this stuff, and they're gonnamake out, you know, with all
this money.
And and he had this whole schemeplanned.
And she's, you know, she's nowsober and she's thinking, What
(03:08):
the heck are you talking about?
I'm not gonna do that.
And so she tells him, No, I'mnot doing that.
And he said to her, uh, Well,you're gonna pay for this ride
one way or another.
And she told me that he pulledover and he raped her and he
left her on the side of theroad.
Yeah, it's wild.
And so she is going, What do Ido?
(03:30):
You know, um, she finds outlater that she she uh is
pregnant with me, and uh herfirst thought was abortion.
You know, I think that'sprobably anybody's first thought
in that uh situation.
And my mom is, you know, atleast at that time, I did not
think she was uh a strongChristian.
However, my grandma is like ahardcore Catholic.
(03:51):
So thank God for the Catholicgrandmaster that are out there
because she told my mom, youcannot have an abortion.
That that baby is a gift uh toyou, and it does not matter how
he was conceived.
And so she then thought, okay,well, I'm not gonna have an
abortion.
Maybe I'll give him up foradoption.
And it just so happened thatthere was uh a family friend of
ours that she knew.
Uh he was a doctor, the wife wasa lawyer, it would have been a
(04:13):
great setup, and they wanted toadopt.
At the last second, she decidednot to go that route.
She uh gave birth to me and thendecided to keep me.
The reason why I say my my storywith God starts there is because
she named me Matthew, whichmeans gift from God.
And she prayed uh before shegave birth to me.
She said, God, this boy's notgonna have a father, and I need
(04:35):
you to watch over him andprotect him and be his heavenly
father.
Wow.
And so that's that's where itstarted.
That is wild.
SPEAKER_01 (04:43):
Okay, so then so you know, she she's out of drug
rehab, she gets pregnant withyou, you know, nine months
later, you're born.
Is she drug free at that point?
Or does that great question?
SPEAKER_00 (04:56):
So, yes, she's it's wild.
So she be she was sober, butwhen you typically when you get
on drugs, it's not because youjust wake up someday and you're
like, I'm gonna get on drugs,it's because you're around bad
association, right?
And so when she was 14, uh, shetold me that she was around uh
bad association.
A guy that she was babysittingfor came home one day, he had
(05:18):
drugs, gave it to her.
That's how she got hooked onmethamphetamines, very hardcore
drug.
And so she, yes, she was soberwhen she had me, thank God.
Uh, but being around thatassociation, now she's a single
mom, she's got no one to helpraise this kid.
What do you do?
She starts dealing drugs, shestarts getting into trafficking,
and so she Wait, wait,trafficking.
You mean drug trafficking?
(05:38):
From what I understand, it wasdrug trafficking, but I wouldn't
be surprised if it was any sortof trafficking.
Like human trafficking, yes, butdrug trafficking for sure.
Okay.
And when I say humantrafficking, I don't mean that
she was trafficking otherhumans, but she might have been
prostituting herself.
I I don't know that for a fact.
But um she was selling drugsnonetheless.
That's what she got caught for.
So she ends up actually going toprison when I was about two or
(06:01):
three uh years old.
And uh my grandparents uh tookme in.
So she went to prison for Ithink it was about one, maybe
two years.
Yeah.
And so um Wow.
So yeah, my grandparents took mein at that at that point.
Uh, we were living, it was kindof a crazy setup.
If ever anyone's ever seen umThe Sweet Life of Zach and Cody,
it's like this old school Disneyshow where these kids grow up in
(06:24):
this really uh swanky five-starhotel.
Uh, my grandparents weremanaging a one-star motel in in
Reno, Nevada.
Uh that's where I was born,that's where I was raised until
I was 10.
Um, and so they were managingthis, you know, this uh motel
that was right off of FourthStreet, which is where you go to
find hookers and drugs and Reno.
(06:44):
And uh my grandparents, Godbless them, if it wasn't for
them, I I wouldn't I wouldn't bewho I am today.
Um they were a godsend of mylife.
And so they took me in and andI, for a period of my uh
childhood until my mom got outof prison, I was living in a
motel and it was a really crazycool kind of a situation,
despite it being, you know, nota good environment uh in terms
(07:06):
of the quality of the hotel, butuh cool in terms of being with
my grandparents, being in a in aloving situation, and uh just
getting into experiencesomething most kids don't get to
experience.
SPEAKER_01 (07:16):
Okay, so your t your mom's you comes back, I guess
comes back early into your life,you move in with her at 10.
SPEAKER_00 (07:22):
So she gets out of prison and she moves into the
motel.
And uh uh it got okay for awhile, things get bad uh later.
Um she moves in this motel, anduh I remember um being in there
with her in it, you know, it's amotel.
It's and it's a it's I mean youcan picture it in your head in a
(07:43):
place that you'd probably go uhuh sleep with a prostitute, do
drugs, just you're there onenight, you know.
You're not making reservationsfor this place.
Uh-huh.
This is where, you know, I'mliving with her, it's just me
and her.
Uh and then myself same room, oryou're like same room.
It's it's one room and abathroom.
That's it.
Okay.
One bedroom or one bed.
And my uh stepdad, he comes intothe picture at this point.
(08:06):
Okay.
Uh, I think right before she hadgone off to prison, they had
made a connection, and they musthave been talking through prison
because he comes into thepicture as soon as she gets out.
So now he's living in this motelwith us.
All three are in the same room.
Yes.
And it it was uh it was kind ofa a traumatic experience to
start just because I rememberlike my earliest memories of is
(08:26):
of them having sex right behindme.
You know, I'm three years old,and that's what I remember.
And uh I was told this guy'syour dad.
And I didn't find out until Iwas 10 uh that he wasn't.
And for a period of time, um hewas just this this dad in my
life.
He was kind of absent in a way,he worked nights.
(08:47):
Uh, we ended up getting out ofthat motel situation.
He got us into an apartment, andit was like, hallelujah.
You know, we're living in anapartment now.
This is this is incredible.
This is amazing.
Yeah, we're living big.
Did your motel have a pool?
It did have a pool, but the poolhad a crack in it, and there was
no water in it.
So it was just concrete.
Dang it.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (09:05):
Okay, so you're you're living in the apartment
upscale.
Uh still see your grandparents?
SPEAKER_00 (09:12):
Yeah, I would still see my grandparents, but we
moved uh across town.
So we were living in downtownRena.
We moved to Stead, which uh Irecently visited last summer,
and I looked it up on uh onlivability, and it's the worst
place you could possibly live inthe Reno area.
So that's where we moved.
SPEAKER_01 (09:28):
Okay.
So does your mom stick it outmarriage-wise with the new dad?
So yes.
SPEAKER_00 (09:34):
Um things were okay.
They were both sober until I wasabout seven, maybe eight years
old, right around there.
And uh that's when thingsstarted going way south.
Um, they had my my uh littlesister, she was five years
younger than me.
That was their biological kidtogether.
Right.
Uh, this whole time again, I'mthinking this is my real father.
And so um, the story goes likethis that uh one day uh his
(09:58):
brother shows up into town, he'she comes to visit from Iowa, and
uh my stepdad's working nights.
And so uh I had asked my mom,how did you guys get back on
drugs?
What happened?
And she told me that uh whenthis uncle came to visit, he
brought some methamphetaminesand they were sitting there one
night after we're in bed, andand he goes, Hey, if you take
this, you can stay up all nightlong and hang out with me.
(10:19):
Because my stepdad was workingnights and he was tired.
And that's a great idea.
Let's do that, you know.
And so if you know, if if you'rea recovering addict and someone
puts that right in front of you,temptation is great, and uh they
they took that bait, and it waslike overnight things got awful,
things got terrible.
All right, so how did he tellyou that he that he wasn't your
biological dad?
(10:40):
He he never did.
I didn't find out until I was Iwas 10.
So once the drugs startedhappening, um everything started
to unravel in the house.
Uh it was it was constantfighting every single day.
Um, lots of abuse, uh, abusefrom my stepdad uh to my uh my
mom and to myself.
Um and one day, uh uh my mom andmy stepdad got in a big fight
(11:02):
physically and ended up in thefront lawn.
Yeah.
And so the neighbors call thecops, the cops come and arrest
the stepdad, and he goes off tojail for I think about six,
seven months.
So I'm about uh I was nine yearsold at this time in fourth
grade.
And uh while he's in jail, wedon't have any income.
My mom wasn't working, and she'sall she cares about right now is
(11:25):
how to get her next fix.
You know, I remember findingneedles in our house.
Um, it was wild.
We had no power in the house,there's no water for six, seven
months.
And uh what ends up happening isright before my grandparents
were they so they're they're inWashington right now.
They're they're living up inSeattle, they moved.
I don't remember exactly how oldI was when they moved, but they
were up in Seattle by thispoint.
(11:46):
That's where they're fromoriginally.
Reno was just like a place theywere at temporarily.
Seattle was was where the familywas from.
SPEAKER_01 (11:53):
Okay, so you're you're living without power.
Yeah, you're you know, do you Idon't know, are you the smelly
kid at school at this point, Iguess?
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (12:02):
I had one pair of pants.
Uh I remember my mom.
I told her I need I need uh Ineed uh clothes for school.
And she gave me$20.
And I was like, what am I gonnado with this?
I have one pair of good jeans,that's it.
And at the same time, I'm stilltrying to be a you know, a kid
that's trying to be cool.
So were you parenting your momas like an eight-year-old?
Oh, 100%.
Yeah.
(12:22):
I was taking care of my littlesister, and I was I was cooking,
I was cleaning, I was doingeverything.
I remember uh I would cook umfood in our backyard using the
barbecue because we didn't haveany power.
And the food that we were eatingwas uh given to us by the
neighbor who was also on drugs,but he would go to the store and
all of their perishable itemsthat they were throwing out, he
(12:43):
would get those and then hewould bring them to us.
So you know, we were eatingstuff that was expired.
SPEAKER_01 (12:48):
Wow.
Okay, so like uh eventually youyou know, you you don't die.
Uh was you serious in anygunfights or anything like that
with your mom and drug the drugworld?
SPEAKER_00 (12:59):
No, there were threats.
I remember one time um theypulled up to get drugs, and uh
my sister and I were waiting inthe car, and all I remember is
seeing my stepdad do like thisKung Fu like front kick uh to
knock a uh uh it wasn't a gun,it was a knife out of somebody's
hand.
And then there was another timewhere a guy uh threatened to
come to our house and shoot usuh because it was drug related.
(13:20):
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (13:21):
Okay, so eventually you get you know you survive,
you make it to high school,right?
Or like what are you still withyour like you're now a teenager,
still living in the in the Solet me go back to uh this house
instead.
SPEAKER_00 (13:36):
Um everything came to a climax in that house.
Uh dad's again in jail, mom'sfocused on drugs.
She's got a boyfriend now atthis time.
Um what ends up happening is Didhe officially adopt you?
No, he never adopted me.
Okay, so my last name's Badgley.
That's the same last name as asmy grandpa.
Got it.
Okay.
(13:58):
You just get to choose what yourlast name is.
It doesn't have to match yourdad.
Yeah.
So um I'm in this house, nopower, and we're using this
fireplace that my stepdad hadmade right before he went to
jail.
And it was like a potbellystove, and and uh it was a metal
chimney that went to the roof.
And so I fall asleep that night.
Uh, it's very cold in thewintertime in Reno, and I'm next
(14:18):
to my baby sister.
Uh, she was four at the time,and I wake up and there's fire
across the ceiling.
And I wake up in a panic, I lookat the couch, there's some
random guy.
He's strung out on drugs.
He's literally staring at theceiling, not doing anything,
just tripping out.
And I get up, I run to the backof the house where my mom and
her boyfriend were at, and I'mpounding on the door.
We gotta go, we gotta get out ofhere.
(14:39):
The house is on fire.
She doesn't believe me.
I end up like, I don't know howI got her out of there, but I
got her out of there.
We get across uh to theneighbor's house across the
street, and my house is just onfire.
And I remember that nightwatching firefighters put out uh
the fire at my house, and I hadthis overwhelming peace because
I'm like, there's been nothingbut nightmares in this house for
(15:01):
the last, you know, three, fouryears because of all the
addiction that my uh parentswere going through and and all
the turmoil and the trauma.
And I wake up the next day, goto school, and I get called to
the office, and they're theysaid, Bring your backpack.
And I'd been in the office alot.
I was a troublemaker and I was Iwas always seeking attention.
But CPS had been coming toschool nonstop, and this was the
(15:22):
first time they said bring yourbackpack.
I show up to the office, mymom's there.
She just looks, you know, strungout and and you know, going on a
bender, that type of a thing.
And she said, You're you'regonna go live with your
grandparents.
And I'm so confused at thispoint.
I'm like, what is going on?
I go out to the parking lot, myaunt's there in her uh in her
truck.
It was uh a two-door, uh, very,very tiny truck, might have been
(15:44):
like a Ford Ranger or something.
My baby sister's in the middleseat, our bags are packed,
one-way ticket to to uh Seattle,Washington to go live with my
grandparents.
And the next day I'm in adifferent school.
Uh, my birthday, my 10thbirthday is like, you know, a
week from that point.
SPEAKER_01 (15:57):
Okay, so at 10 years old, at your grandparents'
house, that's when you find outyour that wasn't your buttons,
your mom was raped.
SPEAKER_00 (16:04):
So, no, I don't find out that truth of of how it was
conceived until my freshman yearof high school.
Um, I found out from my momafter all of this.
I went to go visit her that nextsummer.
I was about 11 years old.
And uh she told me, you know,hey, uh Rick's not your not your
dad.
And she's she's bawling, she'scrying, she's thinking I'm gonna
hate her for this news.
(16:24):
I remember being I was relieved.
I was like, thank you, you know.
Um there's some things I canlook at and say, you know, I'm
I'm very thankful for him.
Uh like I I I'm involved inwrestling, I help coach
wrestling, and uh that wouldn'tbe in my life if he hadn't got
me involved in it.
Um he gave me a lot of examplesof what not to do, and he was at
least someone that was willingto be there as a father, uh
(16:47):
despite all of his abuse andeverything else, you know.
But but yeah, I was relieved.
SPEAKER_01 (16:52):
Okay, so you're now you're now with your
grandparents in your 10.
SPEAKER_00 (16:56):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (16:56):
In Seattle.
SPEAKER_00 (16:57):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (16:58):
And did things sort of get normal from there?
SPEAKER_00 (17:00):
Yeah, they do.
It was uh it was a trip.
You know, I went from Reno.
Uh I was one of the only whitekids in my neighborhood, you
know.
I remember like um yeah, likegoing through lots of bowling
because of that.
I had a guy hold a knife to mythroat one time when I was a
kid, yeah, uh, just because Iwas white.
Um, but I go from that situationto now I'm living in Oso,
(17:22):
Washington, which is this tinycommunity in the middle of
nowhere.
The like their claim to fame isthat they had this mudslide
happen in uh 2013, I think itwas.
Um, but other than that, youwouldn't even uh have ever heard
of this town.
I mean, it's a tiny, tinypopulation out in the mountains
in the middle of nowhere.
So I go from this very, very,you know, large city to the the
(17:43):
middle of nowhere.
Okay, so things start tonormalize.
SPEAKER_01 (17:46):
So things start to normalize.
Your sister's with you?
Yes, my sister's with me.
Your grandparents are there, anduh Okay, so so then tell me
like, does your mom come back inthe picture at all?
SPEAKER_00 (17:58):
Yeah.
So man, you ask great questions,Plek.
Um so yes, that this is a prettyuh crucial part of of how I came
to Jesus.
Um the whole time I was praying,from 10 all the way up until she
did come back in my life, myfreshman year.
You were what, 14?
Yeah, probably 14 at the time.
I'm praying this whole entiretime.
I I wouldn't have called myselfa Christian.
(18:18):
I wouldn't have.
I didn't even know what it meantto have a relationship with
Christ.
My only influence was for mygrandma.
She's Catholic, and we would,she's like uh, what do they call
them?
Uh cradle Catholics, you know,like they just don't go to
church that often.
Uh but she is a firm believer.
And so that was it.
I didn't know you could have arelationship with Christ.
But I knew, like, man, if youprayed to this God, uh, he's
gonna answer your prayer.
(18:39):
That's what I did.
And I thought, if my mom couldcome back in my life, this hole
in my heart would get filledagain.
Because I remember when she wassober as a kid, she was an
awesome mom.
She was a soccer mom, she wasjust great.
The drugs uh is where everythingwent went bad.
So I just prayed, man, if shecan come back in my life, get
off drugs, things would be good.
She does.
(18:59):
She ends up coming back into mylife at 14.
Yeah.
It's like a scene out of amovie, long driveway on this
country road.
This random car comes down, outcomes my mom.
She gets dropped off all the wayfrom Reno, Nevada, out of
nowhere.
And again, she looks strung out.
She looks like she's beenabusing drugs, you know.
You can just picture that inyour head.
And I'm thinking, my my prayersare answered.
(19:21):
My mom is here.
Yeah.
She quits methanthetamines, coldturkey.
That's like insane.
That's insane.
That's insane.
So I watch her go throughwithdrawal, the withdrawal, the
sickness, everything.
And the whole time I'm justwaiting.
My mom, like this picture I had,my mom's coming back into my
life, things are gonna be good.
It was the complete opposite.
The drugs had totally impactedher brain, dopamine levels,
(19:45):
serotonin levels shot.
Um she wasn't the same person,you know.
And and not only that, but youjuxtaposed that next to the fact
that I'm a teenager, I've gotall these hormones, and this
lady wants to be my mom againand is trying to be like my mom.
Mom.
And I fought that.
I had a lot of anger towardsher.
All of this.
One day we get in this bigargument, and uh and it just hit
(20:09):
me.
You know, all this hurt that Ihad bottled up.
I'm thinking that didn't solveit.
Her coming back and sober didn'tsolve it.
And in fact, things are worsenow because she's in the picture
living with my grandparents.
There's a lot of conflict andtension now.
It all culminated.
And I remember grabbing a ropeand I went out to uh the woods.
My grandparents had four acres.
I go out to the woods, I tie arope around my neck, I tie it
(20:31):
around uh a branch, and I try tohang myself.
And that branch broke.
And I remember just sittingthere on uh on the ground
looking up, just going likethere's there's gotta be
something better than this outthere.
You know, there's gotta be a Godout there.
(20:52):
I remember like light shiningthrough the branches, and I'm
thinking, I I know that I justgot saved.
But I didn't have an answer forit.
I didn't have anybody in mylife, you know, tell me about
Christ at that time.
So I just thought, uh, shoot, Igive up.
You know, I'm gonna I'm gonnago.
This sounds crazy, but I'm like,I'm gonna go party, I'm gonna go
pursue women, I'm gonna gopursue drugs.
(21:14):
And I had some buddies of mineum that uh they were already
getting into pot and weed anddoing all that kind of stuff and
drinking and partying, and I'dbeen telling them no up to this
point.
And uh I was like, you knowwhat, I'm gonna go do that.
And it was around that sameexact time that my mom told me
uh about the truth of of hergetting raped and how it was
conceived.
(21:34):
Um we were driving with my newstepdad, and uh and he he made
some sort of comment about it,and uh my mom was like don't say
anything.
And and he's like, You haven'ttold him?
And I'm like, Told me what?
And she goes, No, I haven't toldhim.
And he's like, You need to tellhim.
And she told me right then andthere in the car that uh you
(21:57):
know she was raped, and that'show I was conceived.
And it was that night that I waslike, Okay, yeah, I'm definitely
gonna go smoke some weed.
I'm gonna go get drunk, and Igot more drunk and high than
I've ever been in my entirelife.
Wow.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:09):
Okay, so then at what point is the like the
message of the gospel come toyou?
SPEAKER_00 (22:16):
Yeah, thank God for Jesus.
Um association's everything.
Yeah.
And I start getting around adifferent uh different group of
friends.
Um how?
SPEAKER_01 (22:25):
Like, how did you say, I'm not gonna hang around
these drug addicts anymore?
I'm gonna hang around Jesuspeople.
Like who thinks like that?
I mean, how does that happen?
SPEAKER_00 (22:32):
I I can't even remember exactly how it
happened, to be honest with you.
It's just a school thing.
I remember just, you know, umgoing into my junior year and uh
different classmates and uhbecome really good friends with
a guy I'd known for a long time,but we weren't really close up
until this point.
And his family was a Christianfamily, and he wasn't yet a
Christian.
Ironically, he's a pastor nowout uh oh out in Paris, Texas.
(22:54):
Oh, nice.
He moved from Seattle to Paris,Texas.
He's what's his name?
We have we we have an audienceout in Paris, Texas.
Hey, shout out to CorbinAnderson.
Corbin Anderson, yes, thanks forlistening.
Calvary Chapel.
All right.
Um, so it his family was justbeautiful.
Yeah.
Um, he had a similar story tome, and he was being raised by
his grandparents.
And I remember going over totheir house and being like, this
(23:15):
is different.
This isn't this is a really coolfamily.
They got together all the time.
They went to church on Sundays,and I was like, I really, really
like this.
He was involved with young life.
Nice.
That's how I became a Christian.
Nice through young life.
Yeah, young life's awesome.
SPEAKER_01 (23:28):
Yeah.
Okay.
So was it like a young lifewhere you go to Colorado, or was
it young life where through likethe school, or what was it?
SPEAKER_00 (23:34):
Yep.
So we're up in Seattle,Washington at this time, and uh
uh I'm 17.
It was a summer between myjunior and my senior year.
I'd been going to Young Life nowpretty consistently for a year,
but had not gone to their campduring the summer.
Nice the summer before I'dmissed out on it.
I'm like, nah, I'm not gonna go.
This summer, uh the leader wentup to me and he's like, Hey,
(23:56):
look, someone paid for you.
Uh you got a scholarship andyou're you're going.
Wow.
And he said, it's gonna be thebest week of your life.
What year was that?
This was oh gosh, this was 2010.
Nice.
Yep.
Okay, so you go to Young Life.
Yes.
I go to this camp up in uh uhwhat was it, British Columbia?
Up in Canada.
Okay.
Yeah, it's called Malibu.
Oh, wow.
It's on the Princess LouiseInlet in the middle of nowhere,
(24:18):
beautiful.
You gotta take like three busesand three ferries to get there.
It's insane.
So I go and I'm thinking, thisis gonna suck.
I'm on, you know, I'm on thistrip with all these Christian
kids.
I thought they were allChristian.
I found out, you know, laterthat they they weren't.
Um I'm like, this is gonna suck.
But I hear the story of theprodigal son.
And uh I'm sitting in front ofuh a pastor, he's telling the
(24:40):
story, and it's just like thisscene right here on this, you
know, we've got the stage here,we've got your your auditorium
here.
I'm sitting like somewhere overby that pole, basically.
I'm off in the distance.
Yeah.
And uh he starts telling thestory of the prodigal son.
And I'm listening going, what'sgonna happen to this, this son?
You know, he goes off and he hashis crazy adventure, squanders
(25:01):
all of his wealth, tells hisdad, F you, I'm out of here, I'm
gone.
And I'm thinking, I can relateto that right now.
I'm kind of doing the samething.
But I had felt this tug fromJesus by going to Young Life,
you know, and I'm like, maybethis, maybe this Jesus thing is
is right.
Well, it was in this story thatI realized that I could have a
relationship with Jesus becauseas I'm listening to the son
(25:22):
going back to his dad, I'mrelating it to my relationship
with my stepfather growing up.
And if I did the wrong thing, Igot beat for it.
Right.
I'm thinking, this son's gonnaget beat, you know, his dad's
gonna show him what's up.
And uh this is gonna be a badsituation.
That's the last place you shouldgo if you're in trouble.
And then I hear the dad runs tohim with open arms and embraces
(25:46):
his son with joy and throws abig party.
And I'm thinking, this isinsane.
And it clicked right then andthere, and I could hear God tell
me, that's what I want to be toyou.
I want to be your father, I wantyou to be my son.
And I was a kid over there, justlike bawling, man, like demons
(26:08):
coming out, just like hurtcoming out, all this bottled up
hurt.
And I remember the uh guy thatwas talking, he he like made eye
contact with me, and I couldtell he was like, What is
happening to that kid overthere?
SPEAKER_01 (26:19):
And that day I gave my life to Christ.
Okay, that's exciting.
Okay, so you give your life toChrist at 17.
Uh do you head back to Seattleand like everything's you know
different?
Like you tell your mom, whatwhat do you do?
SPEAKER_00 (26:34):
Yeah, um, I I kind of left something out of the
story here.
So just before I go off to thisyoung life camp, I'd actually uh
I was homeless.
What do you mean by homeless?
So my sophomore year, sofreshman year mom comes in the
picture.
Um, she ends up getting custodyof me.
Don't ask me how that happened,but she did.
And she's with my new stepdadnow and my uh little brother.
(26:57):
And so they have a lot ofconflict with my grandparents.
They end up leaving and they gointo a homeless shelter and they
take me with them.
So my sophomore year, I'm livingin a homeless shelter.
So could you not stay with yourgrandparents?
I don't know how I didn't end upstaying with them.
There was conflict um that theyhad, and uh, I just ended up
(27:17):
going with them.
You know, it was like they toldme one side of the story.
I didn't hear my grandpa's sideof the story at the time, and
they were like, you just got tocome with us, and they just took
me and away I went.
So I'm living in this homelessshelter for a period of time
during my sophomore year.
Uh, into going into my junioryear, they end up getting into
section eight housing,transitional housing.
And uh it was that summer, rightbefore I go off to camp, uh,
(27:40):
that uh I find uh my mom's drugstaff.
She got back on drugs, sherelapsed.
I took a picture on a littleflip phone that I had, printed
it off, and I said, I wrote onthe back of this picture, I'm
I'm leaving.
Uh, don't call the cops.
If you do, I've got this pictureon my phone and I'll show them
what's going on.
And I packed up my stuff in a uha plastic uh garbage bag and I
(28:02):
left.
I took a bus.
Uh I went from uh Evert,Washington to Arlington,
Washington, where I was going toschool.
And uh my friend picked me upand I spent that summer at my
friend's house, and that wasthat same friend that took me to
the Young Life camp.
Wow.
Yeah, wow.
So I come back from camp.
That was your question, and uh Ibecome a student leader.
Um at this time I'm now livingwith a different friend of mine.
(28:24):
Uh his dad becomes like a dad tome.
In fact, I talked to him today.
Shout out to Dale Shipman.
Um and uh I I lived there mysenior year and finished out my
senior year there.
And they just so happen to benext door neighbors to uh my
wife, Britney.
SPEAKER_01 (28:38):
Oh, wow.
Okay, so you are 17 when youmeet your wife.
Yes.
And then is she your same age?
Or is she like one year younger?
Younger.
Okay.
So she was, I guess, a sophomorewhen you were junior, or you
were a senior, she's a junior.
Yeah, I'm going into my seniorat this time, and she's a
junior.
Okay, so then you you guys startdating then?
Yes.
(28:59):
Okay, and then when do you guysget married?
SPEAKER_00 (29:01):
We got married, uh, we were in college.
This was 2014.
So I was a junior in college andshe was a sophomore.
SPEAKER_01 (29:09):
Nice.
SPEAKER_02 (29:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:09):
Okay, and so you guys get married, and then uh
like was she a believer herwhole life kind of thing, or
what was her story?
SPEAKER_00 (29:17):
Yes.
So she's been a believer herwhole life.
Um, her both of her parents areare Christian.
She was raised in a Christianhome.
Um and uh she started coming toYoung Life Club.
That's how we ended upconnecting.
Oh, cool.
It's I hate telling this part ofthe story, but it's the truth.
Um, I I originally met her whenI was 16, but I was dating a
different girl, and this wasbefore I was a Christian.
Yes.
(29:37):
And and she was witnessing tothis girl that I was dating.
And I remember meeting her forthe first time, Brittany, and I
shook her hand, and you've mether, she's just got this way
about her.
SPEAKER_02 (29:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:47):
And I was like, I'm in love with this girl.
And I was I remember thinking, Iwish I was a good enough person
to date somebody like this.
Oh, that's cool.
And then a year later, I becamea Christian, turned everything
around, stopped doing drugs,stopped partying, became a
student leader.
She starts coming to Young LifeClub, and I'm like, there's that
girl again.
And uh, we became friends atfirst.
Um, I asked her to prom and uhshe said yes, which was
(30:11):
surprising.
She had a lot of guys askingher.
I don't know how why she choseto go with me.
She thought I'd be fun, is whatshe said.
And uh I remember thinking, Iwant to marry this girl.
And and I heard God's voice tellme, like, that's gonna be your
wife.
Wow.
Yeah.
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (30:24):
Okay, so you marry her.
Like, how have you like withyour mom?
Like, did she is she alive?
Did she pass?
Like, what what happened?
SPEAKER_00 (30:35):
Yeah, so uh she ended up moving to Mammoth,
Arizona years ago.
Mammoth is like uh in the middleof nowhere outside of Tucson,
like an hour and a half outsideof Tucson, middle of the desert.
It's a small little blimp on theon the radar.
She's been there ever since.
Um, I think she's doing a lotbetter.
I don't talk to her as much asyeah as I used to.
(30:57):
Um or you know, there's nothingstrained between us.
I love her, and I know that youknow, deep down she she really
loves me.
Um, but it's just uh just not arelationship that I've kept up
with.
That's hard.
Yeah, it's very hard.
And and I felt challenged aboutthat because you had talked
recently on on uh on the uh oneof your podcasts, your other
podcast, about uh honoring yourmother and your father.
(31:19):
Yeah, you know, and so I've beenreally wrestling with that a
lot.
SPEAKER_01 (31:21):
Oh, it's a it's so hard to wrestle with, especially
when there's so much pain andhurt and just all of that um to
not have bitterness sort of sinkin and to really honor and love
your mom.
You know, I always say thisforgiveness is given, trust is
earned.
And so you can give forgiveness,but the trust to have your you
know, your mom have access toyour kids, that takes yeah, you
(31:44):
know, like you know, she doesn'thave that trust.
Right.
And that's okay.
Right.
Um, but but that's that's thepart where um allowing the Lord
to work and redeem the years thelocusts have stolen kind of
thing.
Um okay, so talk to me now aboutwhat it's like for you to how
many kids do you have now?
Two.
And so you have two kids, andtell me what it's like to
(32:07):
without having a background ofknowing what you're supposed to
do as a dad.
You didn't see it, yeah, youdidn't uh experience like this
is what dads do.
They lead devotionals or they doplay guitar and sing Christian
songs, or like without thatexperience, what how what have
you, you know, as as I thinkyou're not alone in this.
(32:28):
I think a lot of men uh they getsaved, they don't have a
background of how do I raise afamily to follow the Lord?
What are you doing?
And if you don't have an answerto this, that that's totally
okay.
Uh, what are you doing now tosort of lead your family towards
Christ?
And maybe that's part of like,you know, we're going, I'm
leaving the church, which ishuge.
But what what and how old areyour kids?
And and what are you doing tokind of train them um to fall in
(32:51):
love with Jesus without havingthe crazy story that you have?
SPEAKER_00 (32:55):
Yeah.
Um, my kids love Jesus.
Yeah.
Like if they were right here,they'd tell you all about Jesus.
Uh I remember we we played agame recently, we're just kind
of role-playing, goofing around,and uh, I was this uh this
principal uh that they they toldme this whole story.
Like, you got to be this badprincipal, and Jackson's gonna
be the new kid in school, andand and Peyton's the teacher.
(33:15):
So she brings him into theoffice, and I'm acting like this
mean principal.
Well, you know, off script, hehe stops and he goes, Do you
know who Jesus is?
You know, and he starts tellingme about the gospel, and and
then I, you know, find Jesus andbecome this nice principal.
Uh so you know, my kids loveJesus.
That's great.
And I'm I I wish I could giveanyone who's listening to this.
(33:35):
Like, how did you reproducethat?
How did you produce that?
Like, what did you do?
Oh, God is good, Pleck.
God is good.
That's all I can say.
Um intentionality, I think yourexample's everything, you know.
And uh I've always studied uhthose that I want to exemplify
and be like.
And I've had uh uh if outside ofGod, I think I've had the
(33:56):
blessing of having good men inmy life that I've been able to
uh go, you know what, I'll Iwant to take a little bit from
from you and a little bit fromyou and a little bit from you.
SPEAKER_01 (34:04):
Give me give me one of those things that like you
know, uh one of the men in yourlife, you know, maybe it's Dale
Shipman, like you you look back,one thing that he said or did or
whatever, and then you don'teven maybe not even till you
think of it now, like I do thisbecause I saw him do that.
SPEAKER_00 (34:20):
Um yeah, Dale Shipman, uh how he treats
people, you know, how he carrieshimself.
Uh he's always giving.
Yeah.
Ironically, a lot of the the menI had in my life, uh, they
weren't they weren't ever strongChristian men.
Uh it's the weirdest thing.
But you know, as I'm I'mjourneying this, you know, the
this journey with Christ and andand uh trying to be a man after
(34:43):
his heart, like God throws thesethese men in my life and and
gave me great examples fromthem.
So Dale's one of them, and howhe treats other people, um, how
he loved his his kids umunconditionally.
Um there's a lot of Christ-likecharacteristics that that man
has.
Um Keith Dumb, what a great lastname.
Dumb.
(35:03):
Dumb, yes.
Yes, yeah, D-U-M-M.
SPEAKER_01 (35:07):
Yes.
D-U-M-M.
That's might as well be as Imean, uh, you just imagine his
life in school.
All right, go ahead.
SPEAKER_00 (35:11):
Yeah, exactly.
This guy, again, not a strongChristian.
Um, he he uh actually diedrecently, uh, but lived an
amazing life.
He was an older man, he was myfirst boss I ever had.
He was he owned a landscapingcompany.
Yeah, and uh this guy was acharacter.
We were working out in BillGates' neighborhood, landscaping
out there.
That was one of my jobs incollege.
Wow.
And he would come and pick me upevery single morning in his van,
(35:34):
and we'd sit in trap in Seattletraffic, which is crazy.
And uh for you know, an hour anda half in the morning, hour and
a half in the evening, I wouldjust learn from this guy.
And just he had tons and tons ofwisdom.
He had a lightheartedness abouthim, he treated people amazing.
Um, and so I I learned fromthese guys.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (35:51):
No, that's really good.
Is there anything specificallythat you do now as a dad uh to
invest in your kids?
Like, like for them to knowanything about Jesus means you
had to have an intentionality.
Was that like you send them toChristian school?
I mean, what is that?
They've always, I mean, again,it's your example.
Um, and your example Like you'retelling them about Jesus
clearly, because they're wantingto evangelize to the bad
(36:12):
principal.
So, like, what is that?
SPEAKER_00 (36:14):
I I don't think that an example comes from
necessarily the words that youspeak as much as your actions
and what they can see.
And so just even showing up tochurch and making that a
priority, I think that's that'sa huge first step.
Um they've always been involvedwith things at church, you know,
whether it was a wana or kidsclub or what have you.
Yeah, um, the the Bible is thecenter in our home, you know.
(36:37):
We we do uh consistent Biblereading together.
SPEAKER_01 (36:40):
Oh yeah.
So talk to me about that.
How do you what what by likewhat Bible are you reading and
what plan are you following?
What are you doing?
I wish I could say we'refollowing a plan.
SPEAKER_00 (36:48):
Uh but we just open it up, we kind of read.
We we open it up and and westart reading, you know, and and
um like very similar to how wedo it in our men's group.
Yeah, same thing.
Open up the Bible, we're goingthrough Proverbs, and so it's
like we're reading a chapter aday to get the devil away.
Shout out to a chapter a day.
That's a that is literally oneof the best podcasts ever.
(37:08):
Listen to that every single day.
So I follow that same format.
It's just a chapter a day withthe kids.
We go through it and uh and itmost days they they probably
hate it, but I think deep downthey love it.
Uh and I say they hate itbecause I'll wake them up at
seven o'clock in the morning andget them out of bed and and
we're open up the Bible andwe're reading together, and then
you know, hey Jackson, what'dyou get out of that?
Ah, dad, I'm still, you know,open up my eyes, that kind of a
(37:31):
thing.
But uh and you guys arehomeschooling.
Yes.
And talking Brittany, Brittany'shomeschooling.
SPEAKER_01 (37:35):
Right, right, of course.
SPEAKER_00 (37:36):
Uh I'm the substitute teacher every once in
a while.
SPEAKER_01 (37:38):
And the principal.
Yeah, and the principal, that'sright.
Okay, so uh talk to me aboutthat decision.
Give me like your your uh yourthoughts.
Yeah.
I never thought we were gonnahomeschool.
I think it's made all thedifference.
Yeah.
Um because clearly you havegodly kids.
SPEAKER_00 (37:51):
Thank you.
And you clearly your wife hashad something to do with that.
Absolutely.
She's been a huge, huge, hugeinfluence.
Um, I think they see ourrelationship too, you know, and
that speaks volumes.
So as far as homeschool goes, Inever thought I'd homeschool our
kids.
Uh Brittany was in violentopposition to it.
Really?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Growing up, uh, you know, whenwe had always talked about
(38:11):
having kids and when that wasgonna happen, that was the last
thing on our list.
We wanted to to put them inprivate school.
Right.
And we did that.
We we moved to Texas, we putthem in a private school.
Which one do you go to?
Uh I won't say because we had abad experience.
Yes, fair enough.
That experience uh kind ofturned into a a weird scam.
Okay.
Uh so I I won't uh won't shoutout that name.
Uh, but because of that badexperience, we're like, well,
(38:32):
let's let's try homeschooling.
And we got into Was it duringthe pandemic?
SPEAKER_01 (38:36):
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Because I everybody gavehomeschool a shot.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (38:39):
Yeah, you're your your bacon bread and your
homeschooling kids.
You become a sourdough expert.
Every woman now is a sourdoughexpert.
I love it.
Yes.
Um, and and so uh we picked upuh I think it's called the bold
and the beautiful.
Okay, that's what it's called.
Uh-huh.
Um, it's an amazing curriculum.
Nice and uh it's very easy tofollow and it's fun.
Yeah.
I'm I'm look I go through andI'm like, this is more fun than
(39:02):
school.
This is crazy.
But they teach them amazingthings.
It's it's uh uh it's a Christiancurriculum.
Nice.
So um they just glean a lot fromit from a Christian perspective.
SPEAKER_01 (39:10):
Okay, and then how socialization, uh your kids play
sports.
Yes.
Or is that is that what they'reyep, yep.
SPEAKER_00 (39:17):
So that's kind of the homeschool stigma, right?
It's like how are you gonnasocialize your kids?
We are a busy family.
Yeah, we we're always doingstuff and we're always with
people.
So they're constantly aroundpeople.
Um both of them play baseballand softball.
Oh, fun.
And uh they're really darn goodat it.
They that's their sport, theylove it.
And then I make them wrestle.
Uh they would probably choosenot to.
(39:39):
Although Jackson, he's he'sstarting to fall in love with
it.
Uh, but I make them do that justout of just to have discipline
and and uh and grittiness.
SPEAKER_01 (39:46):
And where do you guys go uh train for wrestling?
SPEAKER_00 (39:48):
Yeah, yeah.
Shout out to Nick Janowitz, uhPatriot MMA.
Um, that's where we go.
I've I volunteer there as a as acoach and the kids go there.
SPEAKER_01 (39:56):
Yeah.
Oh, that's awesome.
Okay, so now talk to me aboutlike.
Just a vision for your familynow.
Like with the past that you'veexperienced and the brokenness
that you've experienced, isthere any part of you that says,
like, you know, ministry-wise, Iwant to, I want to speak into
some teenagers' lives or speakinto kids' lives or speaking to
addicts' lives, uh, children ofaddicts.
(40:18):
I mean, like, is there is ithave you ever thought like
through like the unbelievableuntapped resource that you are
for the amount of people outthere that are just in crazy
situations?
SPEAKER_00 (40:28):
Yeah, yeah, I absolutely do.
And I appreciate you uh evengiving me a platform pleque and
and thinking so much about mystory.
Um I I would love for God to useme wherever he wants to use me,
you know, and I don't know whatthat looks like.
I I have a heart for forstudents.
I thought for a long time I'd beinvolved with young life.
If you would have asked me, youknow, 10 years ago where I
(40:49):
thought I'd be at, I thought I'dbe probably involved in
something like that at thispoint.
Or I'd even thought about beinga pastor when I was in college.
Um, life just kind of took adifferent turn.
Um, but uh I'm at a season nowwhere I'm definitely looking for
it.
I'm definitely wanting to getmore involved.
SPEAKER_01 (41:03):
There might be a recruitment involved shortly
after this podcast.
SPEAKER_00 (41:07):
Well, you you did tell me about solving the
homeless crisis, and that's beenconstantly on my mind.
SPEAKER_01 (41:14):
Oh yeah, just for in case anyone was wondering, I had
this weird, it was just weird.
So and I told I told you aboutit.
I don't even know, like I don'tknow if this is the podcast to
share about, but here I go.
Uh a couple, about a month ago,I I had this dream.
And the dream was I just I waslike, you know, I was messing
with my ear, and all of a suddenearwax started pouring out.
Like, I don't know how earwaxcan pour out, but it was like
(41:35):
all over the place and it wasgross and orange and yellowy.
And I was like, wow, that's alot of earwax.
That feels I'm so glad that'sout of there.
And I wake up.
That was that was a dream.
And I've and I and normally youjust go, huh, weird dream.
And I'd forget out.
But the problem was I keptthinking about the dream.
And it's like, why do I keepthinking about this dream?
I was like, I don't know, maybethat means that you know my ears
need to be cleared out to hearsomething from the Lord.
(41:57):
And then last Wednesday, uh, soit was what last one week ago, I
uh have this um, I wake up inthe morning and it's like a
louder than audible, you know,it just it, you know, I didn't
hear a voice, but just like itwas just solve the homeless
crisis.
Now, solve the homeless crisis.
(42:19):
I don't know what that means.
I just was like, what a weirdthing.
And then of course that morning,my in my quiet time, it was, you
know, um, the woman at uh Simonthe Leopard's house, and she
starts anointing Jesus' feet.
And then Judas gets angry.
It's like, this could have beenused for all the poor.
And Jesus is like, hey, whatdon't mess with this woman.
What she's done is a beautifulthing to me.
You'll always have the pooramong you.
(42:39):
And I was like, what does thismean?
You know.
And so that's why I thrust itupon you.
Yeah.
And so there you go.
You might have to do, I don'tknow.
I I I just I'm I'm just now justlike telling people, so waiting
for the next step of solving thehomeless crisis, if that indeed
is what I'm supposed to do.
It was just a very strange.
It could have been just I hadpizza the night before and it
just kind of hit me in a quicknonetheless.
(43:01):
At this point, I'm I'm open tothe next step.
So if anybody has a plan for thesolve the homeless crisis, and
people keep saying, maybe it'slike solving the spiritually
homeless crisis.
I'm like, okay, here, come tochurch.
Take it.
Yeah.
Take it.
Yeah.
So I don't know.
Um all that to say, yeah, I I Ifeel like the Lord has great
plans for you, and I can't waitto see what uh that will look
(43:22):
like as we move forward, gettingto know each other.
And I'm just really gratefulyou've been at our church and uh
really looking forward to theministry that you and Britney
collectively have um because ofthe just the vibrance you guys
bring.
Thank you.
Wherever you go.
SPEAKER_00 (43:35):
It's just I I would say to go back to your question,
like probably one of my main uhfocuses right now in my heart is
just bringing more people tothis church.
Okay, yeah.
Well, hey, that's a win.
This is an incredible church.
Um and uh uh I've got a uh likea list on my phone of like when
I meet a new person, if I caninvite them here, I do.
And uh if they don't come, Ikeep them on the list and I and
(43:58):
I pray for them and I and Ireach out to them weekly to
either try to get them to themen's group or to try to show up
on Sundays.
And so that's that's like mymain uh mission right now
outside of you know raisingkids.
SPEAKER_01 (44:08):
All right, now let's talk this one sec.
I I want there's this is gonnathis is gonna pass around to
someone's gonna get thispodcast, and um either it's a
mom who is strung out on drugs,they think they're complete
failures, um they're they'rejust like I ruined my kids'
life.
What challenge, whatencouragement could you give to
(44:29):
a mom like that?
SPEAKER_00 (44:32):
I think if anyone uh is listening to this and is in
that situation, um I'd want youto hear God's voice.
I'd want you to hear Jesustelling you right now that I
love you, I'm proud of you, andyou are mine.
Um I think that's where itstarts.
Yeah.
That's and uh if they are inthat situation and and y you are
(44:53):
a mom that's struggling withthat, or uh maybe you you've
been on the the tail end of it,um but healing doesn't happen
overnight, but uh man, it youwould be amazed at what Christ
can do in your life, and uhthat's where healing starts.
SPEAKER_01 (45:10):
Okay, then on the flip side, what about um a young
man just feeling abandoned byparents?
Um what would you what advice,what what challenge would you
give him?
SPEAKER_00 (45:25):
I tell him the same thing.
Um But I'm telling I would tellhim it's gonna be alright, you
know.
I tell him um there's greatpeople around you that really
want to help you out and it'sokay to ask for help.
It's okay uh to be vulnerableand uh you are loved and and you
(45:50):
can get through it, and you'vegot a bright future ahead of
you.
You've got an amazingopportunity to turn things
around for your family and to tochange a legacy.
SPEAKER_01 (46:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (46:03):
Um your kids, your grandkids, your great grandkids
never have to go through whatyou went through uh if you make
the right decisions and getaround the right people.
That's awesome, bro.
SPEAKER_01 (46:14):
Man, that's encouraging.
Can't wait to hear how the storycontinues to unfold.
Hey, thanks so much forwatching.
If you got any questions, youcan text us at 737-231-0605.
We'd love to hear from you.
Uh, we can bring Matt Badgleyback at some point and be like,
tell us a follow up on like howyou're continuing to transform
the world.
Uh, we'd love to hear from youas we talk faith, culture, and
(46:34):
everything in between.
Thanks so much for watching.
We'll see you next time.
But until then, have an awesomeweek of worship.
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