April 2, 2025 • 38 mins
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350: The foundation of a thriving marriage rests on four essential pillars: patience, permanence, purity, and pleasure. While our culture often pushes us to rush straight to pleasure, Pastors Plek and Pastor Holland unpack why the journey through the first three elements creates something far more beautiful and lasting.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
and welcome back to pastor plex podcast.
I'm your host, pastor plec,along with pastor holland.
I'm so glad you're here.
I'm so glad to be here.
You know, uh, I used you in asermon illustration this past
week that's right, I knew that.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Yeah, I did ask.
I did ask for permission.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
The problem was like I think you know you got the
general gist and as I wastelling the story, you know, as
one does, they start toilluminate the story or
illustrate the story and explainthe story of how Holland was
patient with his wife Jenny, andso I was really kind of after I
said it I was like I'm not sureif I was exactly dead on, but I
just kind of took the gut feelthat I had and then shared it.
(00:45):
And how did I do?
You nailed it.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Oh good, just watched the clip and I did in fact
scream you have legs.
At some point I rememberexactly when that happened Did
feel convicted.
During quiet time, Didcommunicate my predetermined
desire to just say yes, nomatter what, and say as you wish
(01:06):
, as I do it.
And she has not taken advantageof that, like you brought up as
well.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Hey, that's wild right.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
She appreciates the way that I've chosen to serve
and I find joy in it.
It is very fun for me, and soit has just been a blessing all
the way around.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Well, good, well, I'm glad that I did not lie.
That's really important.
So let's talk.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
It worked out well for you, yeah it did work out.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
I was like you know, because I thought I had the main
gist and then I was just alittle nervous there.
All right.
So we talked about four thingson Sunday patience, permanence,
purity and pleasure.
And let's just talk through howyou've seen patience play out,
because I think every one of usyou get married to the image of
(01:49):
your wife and then you have thereality of your wife, or maybe
she marries the image of you andthen she gets the reality of
you, and so we're both havingboth husband and wife are having
to express and lean on patiencein the marriage, and I love the
predetermined aspect of that.
(02:10):
Has she had to have any sort ofpatience toward you?
Has there been any part whereshe's like you know what is
there to be patient about?
I don't, that's what I said.
I was like you know, whenyou're this awesome.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yes, of course, man, when we got married I was 25 and
she was 21.
Yeah, and we jumped straightinto ministry at Wells Branch,
yep, and it was.
You know, she's never knownlife married life outside of
like serving like crazy inministry, like serving like
(02:46):
crazy in ministry, and so, um,and I remember even some of our,
some of our fights early on hadto do with ministry of like um,
we, when we did the first youngadult event, um, the live music
thing at the coffee place, yesand um, I thought it was so
great.
There's like a big turnout.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
It was like 90 people there.
It was amazing.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
And, uh, you know, in my head it was like all right,
um, it's show time.
Like there's people here, I'llconnect with the guys, you
connect with the girls.
Let's meet back up at the end,exchange information, contact,
follow up like ministry, let'sgo.
After that first event, she wasjust like that was so hard,
like you just abandoned me theentire time.
(03:22):
You weren't like I didn't knowanyone there, I just felt like
you know, and so, like it wasthis conversation of
understanding.
Oh man, I, um she, she reallywanted to do things together,
you know, and I was like let'ssplit up and cover more ground
you know, and so like Idefinitely can relate to that,
yeah, figuring out how to doministry together.
(03:43):
There's a lot of things that Imade assumptions about her, or I
didn't communicate well, or soshe I mean, she's needed tons of
patience for me, and you knowjust the world of ministry, as
well as marriage and parenting,and I feel like I've grown a lot
, especially the last I don'tknow five years, um, since when
(04:06):
we went from two to four kidsand I officially adopted you
know, we our youngest two boys.
That whole process, I think,just required us to really lean
on each other and support eachother in ways that you know were
, um, just took it to a newlevel and so I feel like we've
both grown a ton and have becomemore patient with each other,
(04:27):
more supportive of each other.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Yeah, I think I would say the same.
I think Adrian has had to bevery patient with me.
I just didn't know a lot aboutwhat healthy married life looked
like.
I didn't really know, and so Ithink there's a lot of things
that she just um, cause herparents are still together
They've done a great job in manyways and so it was like there
(04:52):
wasn't, um, I didn't have acontext for like, what does it
look like to do family things?
It was just like we do ministry, that's what we do, yeah, and
so I think she had to be reallypatient with me, as I've sort of
learned through trial and errorof what that looks like, of
what it means, especiallypastorally.
(05:13):
But then, beyond that, I thinkwhat's difficult, I think, for
people is one of the things thathappens in marriage is, I think
you can catastrophize where you, or extrapolate.
You can say whatever'shappening now, it's only going
to get worse from here.
The way this bad situation nowis the way it will always be.
In fact, it's on a trajectoryto to being the worst marriage
ever.
And then people want to bailand get out because they're like
(05:36):
I don't have the patience todeal with the reality of our
life and I and I think that'sjust that's just where a lot of
people find themselves, and Ithink this is where you and I
both do a lot of coaching andcounseling of couples, and so
what are some of the ways thatyou sort of encourage couples to
(05:57):
be patient with one another?
If you could think of that.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
I think what you brought up about catastrophizing
did I say that right, yeah,yeah, catastrophizing, yeah,
like catastrophe.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Make that into a verb .
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yeah, extrapolating out, you know the phrase that
always gets thrown around withlike parenting stuff of.
Like this too shall pass.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
It's not necessarily true with marriage.
As much you know parenting thebabies are, you know they're
growing, they have these phasesand marriage.
Usually the problems you'redealing with are like well,
they're bad habits Peopledeveloped for you know over time
that don't don't necessarily goaway.
But time itself doesn't makethings go away.
But time plus prayer, pluscommunity plus God's word.
(06:40):
Um, and the time part is areally important part of that,
though, and so just lettingpeople know like hey, like what
I've encouraged a lot is sayinglike hey, this problem that your
husband has, you know, he's inhis 30s, he's probably had this
problem for 20 years.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
He's trained on how to be like this for this whole.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Exactly, and so you can't expect it to go away
overnight or in a week orwhatever.
I mean, there's, yes, god canchange someone like that, but
God often, you know, worksthrough time and patience and
perseverance for a lot ofdifferent reasons, and so
encouraging that it took 20years to get there.
Don't think it's going to turnaround overnight.
You got to be patient.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
No that's good.
I think one of the things Ialways remember people is that
you married.
There's two ways to say this.
The positive way would be likeyou married the exact emotional
health of you, meaning you weredrawn to, you were able to I
don't know if gets the rightword the exact emotional health
of who you are.
So if you had to kind of ropesomebody into marrying you, uh,
(07:38):
or convince them, or like youknow, like you know, you were
able to, kind of you made ithappen.
Well, somebody who you can kindof like force to marry you is
probably not emotionally superhealthy.
And so you're, you're, you'regetting somebody that's probably
not at a at a level of healththat you would want, but because
you roped them in or theyweren't able to commit or
whatever the thing was.
And so I think sometimes peoplecan either have the attitude of
(08:00):
, like I can change them, or or,uh, they give them more credit
for where they're at, uh, thanthey have, and they also give
themselves more credit wherethey are emotionally health-wise
, uh, than they are, and I thinkthat all of that is problematic
.
And so one of the things I wantto remind people is you're just
as screwed up as they are.
You just can't see it.
Yeah, that's good, Veryencouraging.
(08:22):
Yeah, that's good, and I knowthat— Very encouraging.
Yeah, because it's not like youjust got—no one duped you.
Like, I think that's what—Ithink sometimes I run into
couples and they're like he liedto me.
I'm like, no, you chose tobelieve the lie because you knew
, you saw every red flag andthen you chose to believe it.
And so perhaps the reason whyyou're not getting instant
(08:44):
transformation is God is workingon you, something that he is
transforming in your life, and Ithink that's just where a lot
of people are at that wheneverthey're marrying their level of
emotional health, and sotherefore, you can only expect
that, as time goes on, you'reprobably going to grow at
different rates, but there'sstill growth to be had, and who
(09:05):
they were at age 25 is probablynot who we're going to be at 45.
And that's a good thing, youknow, for as much as everybody
wants to be 25 again.
We all made some pretty baddecisions, whether it's
emotionally, spiritually,physically, whatever we did, and
so now what God can do isredeem it.
But I think to your point, timeisn't the healer.
(09:26):
Jesus is, and so that's why wehave to take all that stuff.
That has been, but he takestime.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
He takes his time.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Right, right, yeah.
So Jesus does take the time andthat maturing process is where
he's going to, over time,retrain you and it just takes
time.
So it took you 20 years to bethis messed up.
It's probably going to take youanother 20 years to be this
healthy, and I think that'swhere we can.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Maybe 10.
Maybe there's like a half-liferule.
There's a coefficient that weneed to work with.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
I don't know, yeah, I don't know, what's the
coefficient of life change thatcan happen through Jesus.
Formulaic, it would be reallyway easier in ministry, but yeah
, I think that's huge.
Okay, so patience was the firstthing.
I think everyone needs tounderstand that patience happens
because God is working on youas well as working on the
marriage and the mission.
(10:14):
Okay, second thing we talkedabout was permanence and kind of
the one of the things I broughtup as far as permanence, the
seal upon the heart.
Did you talk about this whenyou preached through it?
Of course, of course you did,because you know all things.
The seal was not actually likea tattoo, because my first
(10:36):
thought was like, oh, it must belike a sweet seal tattoo, not
like a tattoo of a seal, butlike a seal of Adrian on my
heart.
But that's not what it is.
It's actually a seal.
Back then was like a two-inchcylinder thing that you put
around your neck and it was apiece of stone or metal that you
(11:00):
could seal something with andit was like your name was on it
and you always kept it close toyour heart because it was super
valuable and you didn't wantthat getting in the wrong hands.
And that's what I say.
Make me like that.
I want to be the very effect ofyour name, so that if we do
split up and do ministry, I amrepresenting you well, or we can
do it together and I canrepresent you in person.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
There you go.
Good idea, do it together.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
And we talked about how love is that powerful though
Love is that permanent, thatpowerful.
Love is fierce as the grave.
It's strong as death, and wereally got into this part.
I think we talked about it onthe podcast before.
I said there's two differentangles of relationship advice.
You've got Paul, which he givesHoly Spirit-inspired wisdom
(11:51):
about how to be married.
In fact, he's like listen,husbands, you're to represent
Jesus, like your marriage isprimarily about you being Jesus
to the church.
And wives, you are to representthe church in submission to
Jesus, and that is your role toplay.
Hus.
Wives, you are to represent thechurch in submission to Jesus,
and that is your role to playHusbands.
Love your wives like Christ.
Loved the church.
Wives, respect your husbands asto Christ, which you're like
(12:14):
that's exactly what a single guywould say, which is great and
it's Holy Spirit inspired.
But he doesn't get into likehow to do that specifically.
He goes very broad, what thatlooks like.
He doesn't talk about saying asyou wish.
However, peter, I brought upthat Peter was married and he's
right there in linetheologically, but what Peter
(12:36):
did was he kind of brought out alittle more, as he's talking
about suffering, which Iappreciate that what Paul was
talking about.
He was just talking about howthe general relationships
between you know husbands andwives, with your boss, with you
know slaves and masters, how todo your children, and then Peter
gets into suffering and he'slike here's how to suffer, well,
(12:57):
and then he's like wives ifyou're married to someone who
doesn't obey the word, here'show you're supposed to conduct
yourself which I was likeleaning in here as Peter is
writing two wives because he isone who's probably had a wife
who had to deal with him, whichI just sort of thought about.
That, as you know, it wasprobably a pretty big deal for
(13:18):
their marriage.
When Jesus healed Peter'smother-in-law.
When you think about that likeas one who was on the road doing
ministry a lot and had tosacrifice a ton, he could at
least always go like, hey, yourmother-in-law got—or your mom
got healed.
Now I don't know if he did that.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
I might do that.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
But like that's—I thought that that was sort of
interesting he's able to kind ofgo from the perspective of a
married guy Like here's how youshould treat him, so that even
if he's not obeying the word andwe know like Peter historically
did not obey the wordconsistently as a pastoral
person, which I just, and Adrianalways likes to remind me that
(13:59):
the same weaknesses we have atour church are the same
weaknesses in our marriage, andI'm like thanks, and so what
he's realized, like here yeah,it was very helpful.
It's like so, here's what youneed to do.
Peter says to the wives it'slike this is how you're going to
change them.
Let without a word.
He's probably like speaking fromexperience.
Your words are not going tohelp.
(14:21):
It's your conduct that's goingto change.
Your words are going to helpwhen it's respectful speech.
In fact, let's go with callinghim Lord, which I love.
That I mean he's going back tothe Old Testament, and I love
that he picks out Abraham andSarah, which I don't really
think of them as like a modelcouple, right To like hey, you
know what I want our marriage tobe like Abraham and Sarah.
Yeah, to be like Abraham andSarah.
(14:41):
Yeah, like Sarah gives a hallpass, that goes badly.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Next thing you know they have a blended family and
he's like I was just doing whatyou— After he offered her up to
Pharaoh and— he's given her awaytwice.
What's his name?
The other king, yeah?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
yeah, he's like I've given you away— yeah, I mean,
imagine how Sarah had to havefelt.
So if you felt you've beenmistreated in your marriage and
are expected to be a godlyperson, sarah as the mother of
all of our faith, so to speakhad it worse.
Yeah, Is that fair?
Fair, yeah, you haven't beengiven away twice.
(15:17):
You haven't been given away somuch that you're just like fine,
take another woman, let's seewhat happens.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Gosh, that is kind of wild Now that I think about it
like Abraham gave Sarah awaytwice and then Sarah gave
Abraham away.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Okay, yeah yeah, peter doesn't refer to Abraham
as being an awesome husband inthat passage?
No, he doesn't he brings upthat to highlight Sarah's
submission and honor and respectfor him, even though he was a
poor spiritual leader.
Actually.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Right.
And what I think I love aboutthe Bible and I know this might
be the part where Adrian alwayshates it when I kind of go into
these things but I love theBible because it's reality Like,
of course, the first family youknow, Abraham and Sarah were
jacked up.
Because we are all jacked up.
I frankly appreciate that andit gives me great hope that God
(16:07):
could use even me and mymarriage and our church and your
church and your marriage tobring people closer to God.
So he kind of says hey, wives,essentially win your husband
over who doesn't obey the wordover through submissive,
respectful conduct and speech,even when he doesn't obey the
(16:27):
word.
And then the other thing Ithought was just fascinating is
focus your inner spirit as theattraction, not the outer.
And I think probably womenthroughout the ages I'd say this
is ancient today think I needto win my husband over by losing
a few pounds or whatever.
And I don't think that is whatmen ultimately that have been
(16:53):
married for 10, 15 years arethinking about.
They're not thinking like ifshe doesn't lose some pounds,
man, I don't know if we can getthis thing going.
And the beautiful thing is whatwe talked about the way God
wired our brains is that he madeyour brain attracted to the
current version of your wifethrough sex, which is just sort
of wild to think about of.
(17:14):
That's how God designed it.
Wife through sex, which is justsort of wild to think about of
that's how God designed it.
So when a woman doesn't focuson her outward appearance and
she focuses on her inwardappearance, it makes her
ultimately way more attractiveto her husband and that kind of
facilitates and creates thedeeper relationship.
And then, on the flip, when wetalked about this I think last
week, of husbands living withtheir wives in an understanding
(17:34):
way, like when you live withyour wife with the intention to
understand her heart.
It's a prescription from God'sword.
But I think both of these areprescription from God's word of
like, because if you're at aplace in your marriage like I
don't know how to go forwardWives, you've got essentially
two things.
How to go forward Wives, you'vegot essentially two things you
(17:59):
know obey your husband, uh, orbe be submissive to him, even if
he's not um, obeying the wordand your speech and conduct.
And then focus on your innerspirit, men, your role.
The prescription for you islive with your wives in an
understanding way.
So love, I just appreciatedthat.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Yeah, I think, even like the situation I brought up
with Jenny and I and ministrystuff and different approaches
or expectations, that concept ofall frustration comes from
unmet expectations.
Of all frustration comes fromunmet expectations and, um, if
(18:38):
you don't know what theexpectations are, a lot of times
they're not going to be met andyou're going to be frustrated.
And so you know, living withyour wife in an understanding
way or according to knowledge,is seeking to understand her
heart, understand herexpectations.
So, like that conversation Ihad with Jenny helped me
understand her expectations andnow, you know, the next time
it's like all right, hey,there's a ministry thing going
(18:59):
on.
I could, instead of justassuming, you know, yeah and
going in with a different set ofexpectations, I could live in
an understanding way,understanding her heart and lead
through.
Hey, here's the best way toapproach this ministry event and
so that we can serve the Lord,you can feel cared for, we can
bond closer together.
(19:19):
That comes through knowledge,and knowledge comes through
relationship, questions, talkingabout those things.
So you can't live with yourwife in an understanding way if
you never make time to talk toher and listen to her heart and
understand her Right.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
I think this is where and I know people get kind of
upset with this, but I'm goingto say it anyway Sometimes we
have have quality time withoutquantity, time of like, you know
(19:57):
, unless you have an agenda, andsomeone's sort of like here's
the things we're going toaddress, but that sort of feels
like a lot of force.
But I think what happens a lotfor couples is they don't ever
talk about the things of theirheart because they don't have
enough quantity of time to getto the quality of time.
They turn the show on, they gomindless and you know hours pass
and they're sitting right nextto each other, not communicating
(20:18):
.
Yeah, and listen, I think we'veall been.
This isn't like you stink, thisis a.
We've all been guilty of it.
Uh, but I think someintentionality behind spending
time with your spouse can bewatching your favorite show.
But probably more importantlyis that you've got to understand
her heart and you've got torelay the things that are on
(20:39):
yours as well.
That way you can experiencegrowth in the relationship.
Otherwise you put on pause justthe regret or bitterness.
Yeah, the next part we talkedabout was purity, and this one I
went to kind of an I don't wantto say it's an odd direction.
I did love how the brotherschime in here.
We have a little sister and shehas no breast and that line in
(21:02):
and of itself in the Song ofSolomon has to be one of the.
I don't want to call it funny,but you know, you're just like
if you read that at a publicreading and you go where is this
coming from?
Very few people are like Bible,that's just.
But it was fun, like it was afun thing to sort of read, as
they kind of say, like hey, wehave a younger sister, she's
(21:25):
still young, but someday she'sgoing to grow and develop and
how are we supposed to treat her?
And then they kind of give it,you know, parenting, even if
it's brothers who probably hadto take on the role of an absent
dad or a father passed away.
Um, how are we supposed to?
What are we supposed to do?
And then they came up.
It's like, hey, we're gonnaparent her uniquely.
(21:46):
If she's a wall, then we'llbuild a battlement of silver,
we're gonna decorate her wall,we're gonna celebrate her wall
way to go, she is pure and we'regonna help her attract the
right guy.
But if she's a door, like youknow, guys are always in and out
of her life.
We're gonna close with boardsof cedar, not not so attractive,
just like brown and there, uh,and so I thought that was sort
of a fascinating reality focusedon the boards of cedar being
(22:10):
like, not as attractive asopposed to like no, we're gonna
board her up.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Oh sorry, no, it wasn't a coffin but they were
but a battlement of silver rightwe're going to step in and and
be like protectors for her.
We're gonna help board her upto keep like yeah I was just
contrasting to the battlement ofsilver.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Oh, okay like the cedar would be.
Like you know, I've seen big,scary dudes does not make you
very excited about approachingthe girl.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Okay, I see, I see.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yeah, that's kind of where I was going with that.
That was what the imagery I wasjust kind of like.
I was kind of thinking it was acoffin, honestly like we will
kill her.
But that's not it.
They were just saying I'm goingto protect her because she
can't protect herself, and thewoman speaks up and she and then
I was in his eyes as one whofinds peace, and peace is shalom
(22:58):
, or completeness, which I justkind of felt like.
It was a Jerry Maguire moviefrom like 50 years ago where she
goes you know, you complete me,or he would say that to her.
It was beautiful, so beautifuland so beautiful.
So the thing that I thought herewas lasting love is pure, and
one of the things that I theillustration I took to and I
would love to hear how you dothis.
Probably you do this reallywell with family worship.
(23:18):
Are you guys able to go readthe scripture, pray about stuff
and sing?
And when you do that, are thereever questions that come up as
you read scripture, that kind oflean towards what kind of man
or woman your children should beas a type of spouse they should
be looking for, I mean, even asthey're as young as they are,
(23:42):
because I think is Owen 10 or 11?
Yeah, and then Lizzie rightbehind that like about nine-ish,
about to be nine, yeah, aboutto be nine, and so I feel like,
and then you got Ethan and Wyattbringing up the rear, so how
are you able, in those times, totalk about these things?
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Yeah, there's some things we'll talk about all
together as a family.
I also, like you know, I'lltake them on one-on-one.
We'll have one-on-one timetogether to talk through, the
more like, okay, what do youreally think about this?
And especially Owen, now he'sabout to be 11 this summer and
so, yeah, having those kinds ofconversations with him as a
father really important.
(24:16):
But even altogether as a family, like we'll talk regularly
about the more general typestuff of like this is the kind
of this is what it means to be agood man, this is what it means
this is what you're looking forin a wife.
You know, like I talked to, Imean even my six-year-old.
I'm like, hey, this is one dayyou're going to grow up and get
married and be a daddy and raisea family.
And, like you know, we'resowing those seeds of God's
design for family early on.
(24:38):
And they bring it up even notjust like family worship, like
Bible hey, the Bible says this,what does this mean?
But also, like I think it was acouple of months ago we were
watching Lord of the Ringstrilogy, extended edition.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Wow, that's a lot of hours.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
A lot of hours.
Extended edition Wow, that's alot of hours, a lot of hours, um
, but uh, you know there, yousee, like there, there's one
point where, um, you know, oneof the Kings is like staying
back and sending his people out.
I don't know if you're like aLord of the Rings fan.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
You know I wish I was .
I need to read it.
I have the trilogy of books atmy house right now and I have
not read them.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Okay, well, you need to repent and get on that.
I did read the Hobbit though.
Hey, very good.
Yeah, we read the Hobbittogether, watched the Hobbit
movies, and then they wanted tosee Lord of the Rings.
I told them they could watchthat first.
They didn't have to read it.
But you know.
So there's this one king and hebasically sends one of his sons
out along with you know part ofthe army to go to a battle.
(25:35):
There's no way they're going towin, you just send them out to
their death.
And my daughter, you know, seesthat and she's like that's a
bad king, that is a bad man.
A real man would go out andhe'd lead the way himself, not
(25:56):
send someone else out to gofight his fights for him.
So my you know, eight-year-olddaughter is like not only
knowing it in the word, but shecan see it, you know, in a movie
or in a book.
And so anytime not just familyworship or Bible time, but
watching movies, watching TVshows we'll pause, we'll talk
about that.
That probably sounds reallydorky to some people to like
pause a movie.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
and here's what the Bible says oh, I'm definitely
not dorky.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
We do that.
We shepherd our kids through.
You know everything, any kindof media we're we're looking at
together, we're talking aboutand, and they do it themselves
now, so they'll pick it out.
Uh, owen will regularly come tome after watching a show and be
like you know, it's like a LegoNinjago TV show or something,
and he like talks about someonebeing like a Christ figure you
know, he's like this guysacrificed his life.
(26:30):
That's just like Jesus.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Wow, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
So yeah, it comes up um uh, even at their young ages,
uh, manhood, womanhood,marriage, family.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Yeah, I think, always inspiring that vision of like
you're gonna be a daddy one day.
Uh, titus has this big fear oflike what if there's no girl who
wants me?
What if there?
What if I don't get married?
There's no, I think he's.
He's also always afraid of howam I going to learn to drive?
He's got a lot of anxiety there.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
He's like wait how old is he?
Speaker 1 (26:55):
No, uh, he's eight, eight, yeah, yeah, he's really
worried about um.
He doesn't know how to drive.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
You haven't taught him to drive yet.
I haven't.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
And I said don't worry, that day is coming and I
will teach you, just like I'llteach you how to find a wife.
Uh, one of the things I've donewith um, the two that have been
baptized, the older two, isthat we walk through Proverbs.
(27:22):
And you know, you, when youread through Proverbs, uh, as as
part of, like you know, theevening experience, they, I mean
, what is you know?
Here's the.
What's a prostitute?
I'm just reading God's word.
It's someone who sells her bodyfor sex.
What People do that?
Absolutely, what does that looklike?
(27:42):
And so I'll explain the wholething.
And Austin's almost 12.
Jed is 10.
I'm saying, like you don't wantto be around a woman like that,
what you're looking for in awoman who's godly, and that's a
Proverbs 31 woman.
Here's the difference.
And so you're able to kind ofexplain the difference of all
that, especially when they'rebeing introduced to the
(28:04):
adulterous woman from Proverbs 5through media, and like that
could happen.
I always thought it would becoming as soon as they hit
elementary school, and so Austinwas ready in first grade and I
was like, okay, listen, when yousee porn, that means any naked
girls or guys or whatever youneed to come tell me and he was
like, eyes were wide as saucers,like this unbelievable evil
thing.
And then it didn't happen infirst grade, it didn't happen in
(28:25):
second grade, it didn't happenin third grade.
I was like maybe we have pureschools.
And finally in fourth grade Iwas like I happened, but it, I,
you know, it was like eventuallyin fourth grade it happened and
he was ready and he told meabout it and he said I ran from
that and I said that's exactlywhat you flee from sexual
morality and so like.
Even at that, at that fourthgrade age, and jet is falling
(28:47):
right along that, maybe in alittle bit more hardcore he gets
.
He gets upset at people thatare painting their fingernails,
that are boys and wearingearrings and he lets him know
that's not okay and ah, I don'tknow if you need to go quite
that far of correcting everybody, but I was like but I
appreciate the heart that youhave for Jesus.
And so he is going to make sureeverybody knows where they stand
(29:08):
Anyway.
So there's that part of it.
I think that comes throughlearning, that comes through
training.
It comes through watching theshows.
It comes through learning.
That comes through training.
It comes through watching theshows, it comes through watching
the movies.
It comes through experiencinglife where you are not afraid of
the truth of God's word, whichsays put God's word on your
foreheads, on your hands, talkabout it when you lay down as
(29:32):
you walk upon the road.
This is Deuteronomy 6.
Like you need to be trainingyour children to what purity
means Not listen, I'm not, I'mnot thumbs down on like purity
conferences.
And like you know, you get yourkid a purity ring when they're
12 and then they have no ideawhat they're signing up for
because they haven't hit pubertyyet.
And then all of a sudden they'rejust racked with an
unbelievable amount of guilt andthey have nowhere to process it
(29:52):
, because they did the thingwhen they were 12 and the parent
thought they were good and nowthe kid's dealing with all these
things.
That needs to be talked to dayin, day out, and of like
experiencing, especially foryour teenage kids, where they
need to process with you becauseyou are the most trusted person
.
However, if you've never talkedto them about spiritual things
until they're 13, it's going tobe a weird transition.
(30:15):
Yeah, anyway, I don't want tomake parents out there be like,
oh we failed.
Listen, start wherever God hasyou.
I know he can redeem the timehe is so good at that and
bringing your kids before theLord and praying like crazy for
them.
But I do think at some point weneed to have this mindset that
(30:36):
training for who they're goingto marry is going to happen at
five as well as 15.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Yeah, my youngest sons say they're going to marry
Jenny and I'm like someone, likeJenny.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Someone like mommy.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
But I think that's sweet.
We talk about that, but we talkabout it pretty regularly.
This is what a good man, goodwoman, good husband, good father
.
Talk about even just thingsmore imaginative of like you
know when you're like, what doyou want to be when you grow up?
What kind of house do you wantto live in?
What, how many kids you know.
(31:12):
Those those types of thingsvery normal, like questions to
ask and stuff, but being able toto guide and direct their
hearts and thoughts toward abiblical vision for family and
life, yeah, and I think that'sso important.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
I think that I think for a lot of us and I'm just
gonna say, like you know, let'sgo back a couple generations,
the boomer generation uh, Ithink their kind of view was
like the most important thingwas making sure that you could
pay for their college.
And I think if we, I think whatwe've seen with the erosion of
the academic system, of being aplace of just I don't, I don, I
(31:48):
don't want to, I don't want tosmash it too hard, because I'm
still want my kids to experiencea college experience, but maybe
not.
You know, it's like one ofthose things where I'm like I'm
open to it not being a thing.
Yeah, um, uh to to that beingthe ultimate, to now being the
ultimate of like, what is it?
To stay close to family, be, bea part of family, where we're
always integrated in our livesand our faith and our family is
(32:10):
something that is completelyconnected, which is something
that, like you know,historically, you know 200 years
ago, is what everybody did.
It was only like the crazypioneers that left for the big
city or did the whatever thing,and that was unique, and so I
feel like we were kind of Idon't know if, again, this is
where you know there's differentsubcultures and I think,
(32:31):
obviously I'm in a Christiansubculture, but I do think, as
I'm, even at the school wherewe're at, we're seeing families
that are not even Christianexperiencing more of like, the
importance of family, theimportance of experiencing
connectedness is overriding this, like you know, degree of
success that I think my kidsshould achieve and that could be
(32:53):
that you know it's the, I thinkyou know the society and
culture economically is likethis is gonna be the first, um,
like gen z is gonna be the onethat's gonna be in debt, gonna
not do better than their parents, uh, all of that, and so it's
like that.
Maybe that's the reality ishitting everyone.
It's like, well, we're going tohave to stick together, you
guys are probably going to movein, so I just need to understand
that, because that's what I'mseeing happen.
(33:15):
But I feel like, as part of ourrole as a Christian, to see the
right way is like I want to beinvolved in my child's life, I
want to send them out for themto flourish, but I want to have
a relationship with them enough,so they want to be close to me,
yeah, and anyway, I thinkthat's that's probably way more
than anyone really wanted tohear.
(33:35):
Uh, and then the last part isis lasting love?
Is pleasure, and I think one ofthe things I talked about is we
want to microwave, um, patience, permanence and purity, and
then just get right to thepleasure, and that's the problem
of culture as it is.
Yeah, big time, um, so, yeah, uh, what?
Yeah, and I think this is where, when you're on the East side
and you've got it's not todownplay the situation, but like
(33:58):
you've got a lot of single momswho, through whatever
circumstance, have foundthemselves where, uh, patience,
permanence and purity was rushed, and now they're living in that
reality, doing the best thatthey can with the, with the
situation that God has giventhem, uh, or that they've put
themselves in.
And so how are you challengingpeople to then, after you've,
sort of like, done it the wrongway, to now live for, uh, the
(34:22):
way that God designed?
Is there a way that you're, youknow, communicating that to the
church?
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Well, you always need both instruction and correction
, and so, positively frominstruction, like we just we're
teaching through our core valuesright now, on Sunday morning.
So we just taught on strongfamilies being one of our core
values this past Sunday andpreached out of Psalm 127,.
You know where it's like unlessthe Lord builds the house,
those who build it labor in vain.
Talks about children.
As it's like, unless the Lordbuilds the house, those who
build it labor in vain.
(34:49):
Talks about children asblessings, like, um that they're
like arrows in the hand of awarrior.
Um, just a biblical vision forstrong families that send your
children out to into the worldfor the glory of God.
And so, you know, we try toteach regularly, positively, on
like here's what a biblicalvision of family is.
Um, here's God's design formarriage, for parenting.
(35:10):
You know here's, here's thegoal that we're shooting for Now
.
Here's reality.
A lot of us have fallen short ofthat Um, and the good news is,
um, you know, the God of theBible is a God who takes people
who've fallen short and done itall the wrong ways and uses them
, um, in mighty ways for hisname.
And so, if you've screwedeverything up, you are the
perfect candidate for God to dosomething awesome in your life.
Just turn to him, put your eyeson Jesus, submit yourself to
(35:34):
his word.
Stop running away becauseyou're embarrassed or you're
afraid, or whatever.
Just lean into God, lean intothe church, obey the word and
God's gonna bless you.
That's the promise of scripture.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
I think what's wild for us is this past, because we
spent eight weeks in Song ofSolomon and our church, and what
I've understood is that somepeople have, like I can't come
to church during those eightweeks when you talk about
relationships, because eitherlike I'm single and I can't
manage that I'm, my marriage isin a difficult spot, and so I
(36:07):
don't want to hear about how I'mfailing again.
And I think what is importantto recognize is that kind of
what you're saying is God canredeem anything, and so I don't
want to hear that because I'vealready missed it or I've
already been broken by it,already been broken by.
(36:31):
I think there's a miss there,because you're not, you know,
letting the exposure of theidols of your heart, or sorry,
rather, the idols of your heartbe exposed to the light of God's
word and in a fear sense,Because I mean, whatever you
hear that might be wounds from afriend can be trusted, but the
enemy multiplies kisses.
And so I think that at somepoint you understand that God's
word is sharper than a two-edgedsword.
It's it's divides between jointand marrow, between the
(36:52):
thoughts and intentions of theheart, and I think that's one of
the beautiful things aboutGod's word is that it does stick
, but what can also be we misswhen we don't hear God's word is
you can be encouraged on allthe things you are doing
according to God's word, which Ithink most people have a
biblical framework.
They're like, yeah, and youprobably are doing a lot of
(37:14):
great things.
But I think what happens in ourculture, where we've become so
afraid of feeling bad which iswhy a lot of us numb out on
shows and alcohol or drugs orscrolling your phone is I don't
want to feel bad and so I won'texpose myself to something where
I know I'm in the wrong or I'mnot perfect, which nobody here
is perfect.
I think every time I preach theword on a Sunday, I'm like ugh.
(37:35):
In fact, it was really funny,adrienne, after you preach your
sermon, she's like man, we needto have Holland preach more
often.
I was like I was convicted bywhat Holland said, and so I
think there's a reality there.
Like, you need to have God'sWord proclaimed to you and have
an open heart to receive it,because the change that you'll
experience from it is ultimatelygoing to be a really great and
positive thing.
Amen, amen.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
That's good.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Yeah, hey, if you've got any questions regarding
faith, culture, everything inbetween, we'd love to talk about
it.
That's what we do here, and wetalk relationship stuff and we
want to help you be the best,greatest ever representatives of
Jesus and his church.
So if you've got any questions,text us in at 737-231-0605 or
(38:16):
go to PastorPlettcom.
We would love to hear from you,from our house to yours.
Have an awesome week.
and welcome back to pastor plex podcast.
I'm your host, pastor plec,along with pastor holland.
I'm so glad you're here.
I'm so glad to be here.
You know, uh, I used you in asermon illustration this past
week that's right, I knew that.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Yeah, I did ask.
I did ask for permission.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
The problem was like I think you know you got the
general gist and as I wastelling the story, you know, as
one does, they start toilluminate the story or
illustrate the story and explainthe story of how Holland was
patient with his wife Jenny, andso I was really kind of after I
said it I was like I'm not sureif I was exactly dead on, but I
just kind of took the gut feelthat I had and then shared it.
(00:45):
And how did I do?
You nailed it.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Oh good, just watched the clip and I did in fact
scream you have legs.
At some point I rememberexactly when that happened Did
feel convicted.
During quiet time, Didcommunicate my predetermined
desire to just say yes, nomatter what, and say as you wish
(01:06):
, as I do it.
And she has not taken advantageof that, like you brought up as
well.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Hey, that's wild right.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
She appreciates the way that I've chosen to serve
and I find joy in it.
It is very fun for me, and soit has just been a blessing all
the way around.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Well, good, well, I'm glad that I did not lie.
That's really important.
So let's talk.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
It worked out well for you, yeah it did work out.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
I was like you know, because I thought I had the main
gist and then I was just alittle nervous there.
All right.
So we talked about four thingson Sunday patience, permanence,
purity and pleasure.
And let's just talk through howyou've seen patience play out,
because I think every one of usyou get married to the image of
(01:49):
your wife and then you have thereality of your wife, or maybe
she marries the image of you andthen she gets the reality of
you, and so we're both havingboth husband and wife are having
to express and lean on patiencein the marriage, and I love the
predetermined aspect of that.
(02:10):
Has she had to have any sort ofpatience toward you?
Has there been any part whereshe's like you know what is
there to be patient about?
I don't, that's what I said.
I was like you know, whenyou're this awesome.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yes, of course, man, when we got married I was 25 and
she was 21.
Yeah, and we jumped straightinto ministry at Wells Branch,
yep, and it was.
You know, she's never knownlife married life outside of
like serving like crazy inministry, like serving like
(02:46):
crazy in ministry, and so, um,and I remember even some of our,
some of our fights early on hadto do with ministry of like um,
we, when we did the first youngadult event, um, the live music
thing at the coffee place, yesand um, I thought it was so
great.
There's like a big turnout.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
It was like 90 people there.
It was amazing.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
And, uh, you know, in my head it was like all right,
um, it's show time.
Like there's people here, I'llconnect with the guys, you
connect with the girls.
Let's meet back up at the end,exchange information, contact,
follow up like ministry, let'sgo.
After that first event, she wasjust like that was so hard,
like you just abandoned me theentire time.
(03:22):
You weren't like I didn't knowanyone there, I just felt like
you know, and so, like it wasthis conversation of
understanding.
Oh man, I, um she, she reallywanted to do things together,
you know, and I was like let'ssplit up and cover more ground
you know, and so like Idefinitely can relate to that,
yeah, figuring out how to doministry together.
(03:43):
There's a lot of things that Imade assumptions about her, or I
didn't communicate well, or soshe I mean, she's needed tons of
patience for me, and you knowjust the world of ministry, as
well as marriage and parenting,and I feel like I've grown a lot
, especially the last I don'tknow five years, um, since when
(04:06):
we went from two to four kidsand I officially adopted you
know, we our youngest two boys.
That whole process, I think,just required us to really lean
on each other and support eachother in ways that you know were
, um, just took it to a newlevel and so I feel like we've
both grown a ton and have becomemore patient with each other,
(04:27):
more supportive of each other.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Yeah, I think I would say the same.
I think Adrian has had to bevery patient with me.
I just didn't know a lot aboutwhat healthy married life looked
like.
I didn't really know, and so Ithink there's a lot of things
that she just um, cause herparents are still together
They've done a great job in manyways and so it was like there
(04:52):
wasn't, um, I didn't have acontext for like, what does it
look like to do family things?
It was just like we do ministry, that's what we do, yeah, and
so I think she had to be reallypatient with me, as I've sort of
learned through trial and errorof what that looks like, of
what it means, especiallypastorally.
(05:13):
But then, beyond that, I thinkwhat's difficult, I think, for
people is one of the things thathappens in marriage is, I think
you can catastrophize where you, or extrapolate.
You can say whatever'shappening now, it's only going
to get worse from here.
The way this bad situation nowis the way it will always be.
In fact, it's on a trajectoryto to being the worst marriage
ever.
And then people want to bailand get out because they're like
(05:36):
I don't have the patience todeal with the reality of our
life and I and I think that'sjust that's just where a lot of
people find themselves, and Ithink this is where you and I
both do a lot of coaching andcounseling of couples, and so
what are some of the ways thatyou sort of encourage couples to
(05:57):
be patient with one another?
If you could think of that.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
I think what you brought up about catastrophizing
did I say that right, yeah,yeah, catastrophizing, yeah,
like catastrophe.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Make that into a verb .
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yeah, extrapolating out, you know the phrase that
always gets thrown around withlike parenting stuff of.
Like this too shall pass.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
It's not necessarily true with marriage.
As much you know parenting thebabies are, you know they're
growing, they have these phasesand marriage.
Usually the problems you'redealing with are like well,
they're bad habits Peopledeveloped for you know over time
that don't don't necessarily goaway.
But time itself doesn't makethings go away.
But time plus prayer, pluscommunity plus God's word.
(06:40):
Um, and the time part is areally important part of that,
though, and so just lettingpeople know like hey, like what
I've encouraged a lot is sayinglike hey, this problem that your
husband has, you know, he's inhis 30s, he's probably had this
problem for 20 years.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
He's trained on how to be like this for this whole.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Exactly, and so you can't expect it to go away
overnight or in a week orwhatever.
I mean, there's, yes, god canchange someone like that, but
God often, you know, worksthrough time and patience and
perseverance for a lot ofdifferent reasons, and so
encouraging that it took 20years to get there.
Don't think it's going to turnaround overnight.
You got to be patient.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
No that's good.
I think one of the things Ialways remember people is that
you married.
There's two ways to say this.
The positive way would be likeyou married the exact emotional
health of you, meaning you weredrawn to, you were able to I
don't know if gets the rightword the exact emotional health
of who you are.
So if you had to kind of ropesomebody into marrying you, uh,
(07:38):
or convince them, or like youknow, like you know, you were
able to, kind of you made ithappen.
Well, somebody who you can kindof like force to marry you is
probably not emotionally superhealthy.
And so you're, you're, you'regetting somebody that's probably
not at a at a level of healththat you would want, but because
you roped them in or theyweren't able to commit or
whatever the thing was.
And so I think sometimes peoplecan either have the attitude of
(08:00):
, like I can change them, or or,uh, they give them more credit
for where they're at, uh, thanthey have, and they also give
themselves more credit wherethey are emotionally health-wise
, uh, than they are, and I thinkthat all of that is problematic
.
And so one of the things I wantto remind people is you're just
as screwed up as they are.
You just can't see it.
Yeah, that's good, Veryencouraging.
(08:22):
Yeah, that's good, and I knowthat— Very encouraging.
Yeah, because it's not like youjust got—no one duped you.
Like, I think that's what—Ithink sometimes I run into
couples and they're like he liedto me.
I'm like, no, you chose tobelieve the lie because you knew
, you saw every red flag andthen you chose to believe it.
And so perhaps the reason whyyou're not getting instant
(08:44):
transformation is God is workingon you, something that he is
transforming in your life, and Ithink that's just where a lot
of people are at that wheneverthey're marrying their level of
emotional health, and sotherefore, you can only expect
that, as time goes on, you'reprobably going to grow at
different rates, but there'sstill growth to be had, and who
(09:05):
they were at age 25 is probablynot who we're going to be at 45.
And that's a good thing, youknow, for as much as everybody
wants to be 25 again.
We all made some pretty baddecisions, whether it's
emotionally, spiritually,physically, whatever we did, and
so now what God can do isredeem it.
But I think to your point, timeisn't the healer.
(09:26):
Jesus is, and so that's why wehave to take all that stuff.
That has been, but he takestime.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
He takes his time.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Right, right, yeah.
So Jesus does take the time andthat maturing process is where
he's going to, over time,retrain you and it just takes
time.
So it took you 20 years to bethis messed up.
It's probably going to take youanother 20 years to be this
healthy, and I think that'swhere we can.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Maybe 10.
Maybe there's like a half-liferule.
There's a coefficient that weneed to work with.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
I don't know, yeah, I don't know, what's the
coefficient of life change thatcan happen through Jesus.
Formulaic, it would be reallyway easier in ministry, but yeah
, I think that's huge.
Okay, so patience was the firstthing.
I think everyone needs tounderstand that patience happens
because God is working on youas well as working on the
marriage and the mission.
(10:14):
Okay, second thing we talkedabout was permanence and kind of
the one of the things I broughtup as far as permanence, the
seal upon the heart.
Did you talk about this whenyou preached through it?
Of course, of course you did,because you know all things.
The seal was not actually likea tattoo, because my first
(10:36):
thought was like, oh, it must belike a sweet seal tattoo, not
like a tattoo of a seal, butlike a seal of Adrian on my
heart.
But that's not what it is.
It's actually a seal.
Back then was like a two-inchcylinder thing that you put
around your neck and it was apiece of stone or metal that you
(11:00):
could seal something with andit was like your name was on it
and you always kept it close toyour heart because it was super
valuable and you didn't wantthat getting in the wrong hands.
And that's what I say.
Make me like that.
I want to be the very effect ofyour name, so that if we do
split up and do ministry, I amrepresenting you well, or we can
do it together and I canrepresent you in person.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
There you go.
Good idea, do it together.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
And we talked about how love is that powerful though
Love is that permanent, thatpowerful.
Love is fierce as the grave.
It's strong as death, and wereally got into this part.
I think we talked about it onthe podcast before.
I said there's two differentangles of relationship advice.
You've got Paul, which he givesHoly Spirit-inspired wisdom
(11:51):
about how to be married.
In fact, he's like listen,husbands, you're to represent
Jesus, like your marriage isprimarily about you being Jesus
to the church.
And wives, you are to representthe church in submission to
Jesus, and that is your role toplay.
Hus.
Wives, you are to represent thechurch in submission to Jesus,
and that is your role to playHusbands.
Love your wives like Christ.
Loved the church.
Wives, respect your husbands asto Christ, which you're like
(12:14):
that's exactly what a single guywould say, which is great and
it's Holy Spirit inspired.
But he doesn't get into likehow to do that specifically.
He goes very broad, what thatlooks like.
He doesn't talk about saying asyou wish.
However, peter, I brought upthat Peter was married and he's
right there in linetheologically, but what Peter
(12:36):
did was he kind of brought out alittle more, as he's talking
about suffering, which Iappreciate that what Paul was
talking about.
He was just talking about howthe general relationships
between you know husbands andwives, with your boss, with you
know slaves and masters, how todo your children, and then Peter
gets into suffering and he'slike here's how to suffer, well,
(12:57):
and then he's like wives ifyou're married to someone who
doesn't obey the word, here'show you're supposed to conduct
yourself which I was likeleaning in here as Peter is
writing two wives because he isone who's probably had a wife
who had to deal with him, whichI just sort of thought about.
That, as you know, it wasprobably a pretty big deal for
(13:18):
their marriage.
When Jesus healed Peter'smother-in-law.
When you think about that likeas one who was on the road doing
ministry a lot and had tosacrifice a ton, he could at
least always go like, hey, yourmother-in-law got—or your mom
got healed.
Now I don't know if he did that.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
I might do that.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
But like that's—I thought that that was sort of
interesting he's able to kind ofgo from the perspective of a
married guy Like here's how youshould treat him, so that even
if he's not obeying the word andwe know like Peter historically
did not obey the wordconsistently as a pastoral
person, which I just, and Adrianalways likes to remind me that
(13:59):
the same weaknesses we have atour church are the same
weaknesses in our marriage, andI'm like thanks, and so what
he's realized, like here yeah,it was very helpful.
It's like so, here's what youneed to do.
Peter says to the wives it'slike this is how you're going to
change them.
Let without a word.
He's probably like speaking fromexperience.
Your words are not going tohelp.
(14:21):
It's your conduct that's goingto change.
Your words are going to helpwhen it's respectful speech.
In fact, let's go with callinghim Lord, which I love.
That I mean he's going back tothe Old Testament, and I love
that he picks out Abraham andSarah, which I don't really
think of them as like a modelcouple, right To like hey, you
know what I want our marriage tobe like Abraham and Sarah.
Yeah, to be like Abraham andSarah.
(14:41):
Yeah, like Sarah gives a hallpass, that goes badly.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Next thing you know they have a blended family and
he's like I was just doing whatyou— After he offered her up to
Pharaoh and— he's given her awaytwice.
What's his name?
The other king, yeah?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
yeah, he's like I've given you away— yeah, I mean,
imagine how Sarah had to havefelt.
So if you felt you've beenmistreated in your marriage and
are expected to be a godlyperson, sarah as the mother of
all of our faith, so to speakhad it worse.
Yeah, Is that fair?
Fair, yeah, you haven't beengiven away twice.
(15:17):
You haven't been given away somuch that you're just like fine,
take another woman, let's seewhat happens.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Gosh, that is kind of wild Now that I think about it
like Abraham gave Sarah awaytwice and then Sarah gave
Abraham away.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Okay, yeah yeah, peter doesn't refer to Abraham
as being an awesome husband inthat passage?
No, he doesn't he brings upthat to highlight Sarah's
submission and honor and respectfor him, even though he was a
poor spiritual leader.
Actually.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Right.
And what I think I love aboutthe Bible and I know this might
be the part where Adrian alwayshates it when I kind of go into
these things but I love theBible because it's reality Like,
of course, the first family youknow, Abraham and Sarah were
jacked up.
Because we are all jacked up.
I frankly appreciate that andit gives me great hope that God
(16:07):
could use even me and mymarriage and our church and your
church and your marriage tobring people closer to God.
So he kind of says hey, wives,essentially win your husband
over who doesn't obey the wordover through submissive,
respectful conduct and speech,even when he doesn't obey the
(16:27):
word.
And then the other thing Ithought was just fascinating is
focus your inner spirit as theattraction, not the outer.
And I think probably womenthroughout the ages I'd say this
is ancient today think I needto win my husband over by losing
a few pounds or whatever.
And I don't think that is whatmen ultimately that have been
(16:53):
married for 10, 15 years arethinking about.
They're not thinking like ifshe doesn't lose some pounds,
man, I don't know if we can getthis thing going.
And the beautiful thing is whatwe talked about the way God
wired our brains is that he madeyour brain attracted to the
current version of your wifethrough sex, which is just sort
of wild to think about of.
(17:14):
That's how God designed it.
Wife through sex, which is justsort of wild to think about of
that's how God designed it.
So when a woman doesn't focuson her outward appearance and
she focuses on her inwardappearance, it makes her
ultimately way more attractiveto her husband and that kind of
facilitates and creates thedeeper relationship.
And then, on the flip, when wetalked about this I think last
week, of husbands living withtheir wives in an understanding
(17:34):
way, like when you live withyour wife with the intention to
understand her heart.
It's a prescription from God'sword.
But I think both of these areprescription from God's word of
like, because if you're at aplace in your marriage like I
don't know how to go forwardWives, you've got essentially
two things.
How to go forward Wives, you'vegot essentially two things you
(17:59):
know obey your husband, uh, orbe be submissive to him, even if
he's not um, obeying the wordand your speech and conduct.
And then focus on your innerspirit, men, your role.
The prescription for you islive with your wives in an
understanding way.
So love, I just appreciatedthat.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Yeah, I think, even like the situation I brought up
with Jenny and I and ministrystuff and different approaches
or expectations, that concept ofall frustration comes from
unmet expectations.
Of all frustration comes fromunmet expectations and, um, if
(18:38):
you don't know what theexpectations are, a lot of times
they're not going to be met andyou're going to be frustrated.
And so you know, living withyour wife in an understanding
way or according to knowledge,is seeking to understand her
heart, understand herexpectations.
So, like that conversation Ihad with Jenny helped me
understand her expectations andnow, you know, the next time
it's like all right, hey,there's a ministry thing going
(18:59):
on.
I could, instead of justassuming, you know, yeah and
going in with a different set ofexpectations, I could live in
an understanding way,understanding her heart and lead
through.
Hey, here's the best way toapproach this ministry event and
so that we can serve the Lord,you can feel cared for, we can
bond closer together.
(19:19):
That comes through knowledge,and knowledge comes through
relationship, questions, talkingabout those things.
So you can't live with yourwife in an understanding way if
you never make time to talk toher and listen to her heart and
understand her Right.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
I think this is where and I know people get kind of
upset with this, but I'm goingto say it anyway Sometimes we
have have quality time withoutquantity, time of like, you know
(19:57):
, unless you have an agenda, andsomeone's sort of like here's
the things we're going toaddress, but that sort of feels
like a lot of force.
But I think what happens a lotfor couples is they don't ever
talk about the things of theirheart because they don't have
enough quantity of time to getto the quality of time.
They turn the show on, they gomindless and you know hours pass
and they're sitting right nextto each other, not communicating
(20:18):
.
Yeah, and listen, I think we'veall been.
This isn't like you stink, thisis a.
We've all been guilty of it.
Uh, but I think someintentionality behind spending
time with your spouse can bewatching your favorite show.
But probably more importantlyis that you've got to understand
her heart and you've got torelay the things that are on
(20:39):
yours as well.
That way you can experiencegrowth in the relationship.
Otherwise you put on pause justthe regret or bitterness.
Yeah, the next part we talkedabout was purity, and this one I
went to kind of an I don't wantto say it's an odd direction.
I did love how the brotherschime in here.
We have a little sister and shehas no breast and that line in
(21:02):
and of itself in the Song ofSolomon has to be one of the.
I don't want to call it funny,but you know, you're just like
if you read that at a publicreading and you go where is this
coming from?
Very few people are like Bible,that's just.
But it was fun, like it was afun thing to sort of read, as
they kind of say, like hey, wehave a younger sister, she's
(21:25):
still young, but someday she'sgoing to grow and develop and
how are we supposed to treat her?
And then they kind of give it,you know, parenting, even if
it's brothers who probably hadto take on the role of an absent
dad or a father passed away.
Um, how are we supposed to?
What are we supposed to do?
And then they came up.
It's like, hey, we're gonnaparent her uniquely.
(21:46):
If she's a wall, then we'llbuild a battlement of silver,
we're gonna decorate her wall,we're gonna celebrate her wall
way to go, she is pure and we'regonna help her attract the
right guy.
But if she's a door, like youknow, guys are always in and out
of her life.
We're gonna close with boardsof cedar, not not so attractive,
just like brown and there, uh,and so I thought that was sort
of a fascinating reality focusedon the boards of cedar being
(22:10):
like, not as attractive asopposed to like no, we're gonna
board her up.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Oh sorry, no, it wasn't a coffin but they were
but a battlement of silver rightwe're going to step in and and
be like protectors for her.
We're gonna help board her upto keep like yeah I was just
contrasting to the battlement ofsilver.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Oh, okay like the cedar would be.
Like you know, I've seen big,scary dudes does not make you
very excited about approachingthe girl.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Okay, I see, I see.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yeah, that's kind of where I was going with that.
That was what the imagery I wasjust kind of like.
I was kind of thinking it was acoffin, honestly like we will
kill her.
But that's not it.
They were just saying I'm goingto protect her because she
can't protect herself, and thewoman speaks up and she and then
I was in his eyes as one whofinds peace, and peace is shalom
(22:58):
, or completeness, which I justkind of felt like.
It was a Jerry Maguire moviefrom like 50 years ago where she
goes you know, you complete me,or he would say that to her.
It was beautiful, so beautifuland so beautiful.
So the thing that I thought herewas lasting love is pure, and
one of the things that I theillustration I took to and I
would love to hear how you dothis.
Probably you do this reallywell with family worship.
(23:18):
Are you guys able to go readthe scripture, pray about stuff
and sing?
And when you do that, are thereever questions that come up as
you read scripture, that kind oflean towards what kind of man
or woman your children should beas a type of spouse they should
be looking for, I mean, even asthey're as young as they are,
(23:42):
because I think is Owen 10 or 11?
Yeah, and then Lizzie rightbehind that like about nine-ish,
about to be nine, yeah, aboutto be nine, and so I feel like,
and then you got Ethan and Wyattbringing up the rear, so how
are you able, in those times, totalk about these things?
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Yeah, there's some things we'll talk about all
together as a family.
I also, like you know, I'lltake them on one-on-one.
We'll have one-on-one timetogether to talk through, the
more like, okay, what do youreally think about this?
And especially Owen, now he'sabout to be 11 this summer and
so, yeah, having those kinds ofconversations with him as a
father really important.
(24:16):
But even altogether as a family, like we'll talk regularly
about the more general typestuff of like this is the kind
of this is what it means to be agood man, this is what it means
this is what you're looking forin a wife.
You know, like I talked to, Imean even my six-year-old.
I'm like, hey, this is one dayyou're going to grow up and get
married and be a daddy and raisea family.
And, like you know, we'resowing those seeds of God's
design for family early on.
(24:38):
And they bring it up even notjust like family worship, like
Bible hey, the Bible says this,what does this mean?
But also, like I think it was acouple of months ago we were
watching Lord of the Ringstrilogy, extended edition.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Wow, that's a lot of hours.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
A lot of hours.
Extended edition Wow, that's alot of hours, a lot of hours, um
, but uh, you know there, yousee, like there, there's one
point where, um, you know, oneof the Kings is like staying
back and sending his people out.
I don't know if you're like aLord of the Rings fan.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
You know I wish I was .
I need to read it.
I have the trilogy of books atmy house right now and I have
not read them.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Okay, well, you need to repent and get on that.
I did read the Hobbit though.
Hey, very good.
Yeah, we read the Hobbittogether, watched the Hobbit
movies, and then they wanted tosee Lord of the Rings.
I told them they could watchthat first.
They didn't have to read it.
But you know.
So there's this one king and hebasically sends one of his sons
out along with you know part ofthe army to go to a battle.
(25:35):
There's no way they're going towin, you just send them out to
their death.
And my daughter, you know, seesthat and she's like that's a
bad king, that is a bad man.
A real man would go out andhe'd lead the way himself, not
(25:56):
send someone else out to gofight his fights for him.
So my you know, eight-year-olddaughter is like not only
knowing it in the word, but shecan see it, you know, in a movie
or in a book.
And so anytime not just familyworship or Bible time, but
watching movies, watching TVshows we'll pause, we'll talk
about that.
That probably sounds reallydorky to some people to like
pause a movie.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
and here's what the Bible says oh, I'm definitely
not dorky.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
We do that.
We shepherd our kids through.
You know everything, any kindof media we're we're looking at
together, we're talking aboutand, and they do it themselves
now, so they'll pick it out.
Uh, owen will regularly come tome after watching a show and be
like you know, it's like a LegoNinjago TV show or something,
and he like talks about someonebeing like a Christ figure you
know, he's like this guysacrificed his life.
(26:30):
That's just like Jesus.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Wow, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
So yeah, it comes up um uh, even at their young ages,
uh, manhood, womanhood,marriage, family.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Yeah, I think, always inspiring that vision of like
you're gonna be a daddy one day.
Uh, titus has this big fear oflike what if there's no girl who
wants me?
What if there?
What if I don't get married?
There's no, I think he's.
He's also always afraid of howam I going to learn to drive?
He's got a lot of anxiety there.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
He's like wait how old is he?
Speaker 1 (26:55):
No, uh, he's eight, eight, yeah, yeah, he's really
worried about um.
He doesn't know how to drive.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
You haven't taught him to drive yet.
I haven't.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
And I said don't worry, that day is coming and I
will teach you, just like I'llteach you how to find a wife.
Uh, one of the things I've donewith um, the two that have been
baptized, the older two, isthat we walk through Proverbs.
(27:22):
And you know, you, when youread through Proverbs, uh, as as
part of, like you know, theevening experience, they, I mean
, what is you know?
Here's the.
What's a prostitute?
I'm just reading God's word.
It's someone who sells her bodyfor sex.
What People do that?
Absolutely, what does that looklike?
(27:42):
And so I'll explain the wholething.
And Austin's almost 12.
Jed is 10.
I'm saying, like you don't wantto be around a woman like that,
what you're looking for in awoman who's godly, and that's a
Proverbs 31 woman.
Here's the difference.
And so you're able to kind ofexplain the difference of all
that, especially when they'rebeing introduced to the
(28:04):
adulterous woman from Proverbs 5through media, and like that
could happen.
I always thought it would becoming as soon as they hit
elementary school, and so Austinwas ready in first grade and I
was like, okay, listen, when yousee porn, that means any naked
girls or guys or whatever youneed to come tell me and he was
like, eyes were wide as saucers,like this unbelievable evil
thing.
And then it didn't happen infirst grade, it didn't happen in
(28:25):
second grade, it didn't happenin third grade.
I was like maybe we have pureschools.
And finally in fourth grade Iwas like I happened, but it, I,
you know, it was like eventuallyin fourth grade it happened and
he was ready and he told meabout it and he said I ran from
that and I said that's exactlywhat you flee from sexual
morality and so like.
Even at that, at that fourthgrade age, and jet is falling
(28:47):
right along that, maybe in alittle bit more hardcore he gets
.
He gets upset at people thatare painting their fingernails,
that are boys and wearingearrings and he lets him know
that's not okay and ah, I don'tknow if you need to go quite
that far of correcting everybody, but I was like but I
appreciate the heart that youhave for Jesus.
And so he is going to make sureeverybody knows where they stand
(29:08):
Anyway.
So there's that part of it.
I think that comes throughlearning, that comes through
training.
It comes through watching theshows.
It comes through learning.
That comes through training.
It comes through watching theshows, it comes through watching
the movies.
It comes through experiencinglife where you are not afraid of
the truth of God's word, whichsays put God's word on your
foreheads, on your hands, talkabout it when you lay down as
(29:32):
you walk upon the road.
This is Deuteronomy 6.
Like you need to be trainingyour children to what purity
means Not listen, I'm not, I'mnot thumbs down on like purity
conferences.
And like you know, you get yourkid a purity ring when they're
12 and then they have no ideawhat they're signing up for
because they haven't hit pubertyyet.
And then all of a sudden they'rejust racked with an
unbelievable amount of guilt andthey have nowhere to process it
(29:52):
, because they did the thingwhen they were 12 and the parent
thought they were good and nowthe kid's dealing with all these
things.
That needs to be talked to dayin, day out, and of like
experiencing, especially foryour teenage kids, where they
need to process with you becauseyou are the most trusted person
.
However, if you've never talkedto them about spiritual things
until they're 13, it's going tobe a weird transition.
(30:15):
Yeah, anyway, I don't want tomake parents out there be like,
oh we failed.
Listen, start wherever God hasyou.
I know he can redeem the timehe is so good at that and
bringing your kids before theLord and praying like crazy for
them.
But I do think at some point weneed to have this mindset that
(30:36):
training for who they're goingto marry is going to happen at
five as well as 15.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Yeah, my youngest sons say they're going to marry
Jenny and I'm like someone, likeJenny.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Someone like mommy.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
But I think that's sweet.
We talk about that, but we talkabout it pretty regularly.
This is what a good man, goodwoman, good husband, good father
.
Talk about even just thingsmore imaginative of like you
know when you're like, what doyou want to be when you grow up?
What kind of house do you wantto live in?
What, how many kids you know.
(31:12):
Those those types of thingsvery normal, like questions to
ask and stuff, but being able toto guide and direct their
hearts and thoughts toward abiblical vision for family and
life, yeah, and I think that'sso important.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
I think that I think for a lot of us and I'm just
gonna say, like you know, let'sgo back a couple generations,
the boomer generation uh, Ithink their kind of view was
like the most important thingwas making sure that you could
pay for their college.
And I think if we, I think whatwe've seen with the erosion of
the academic system, of being aplace of just I don't, I don, I
(31:48):
don't want to, I don't want tosmash it too hard, because I'm
still want my kids to experiencea college experience, but maybe
not.
You know, it's like one ofthose things where I'm like I'm
open to it not being a thing.
Yeah, um, uh to to that beingthe ultimate, to now being the
ultimate of like, what is it?
To stay close to family, be, bea part of family, where we're
always integrated in our livesand our faith and our family is
(32:10):
something that is completelyconnected, which is something
that, like you know,historically, you know 200 years
ago, is what everybody did.
It was only like the crazypioneers that left for the big
city or did the whatever thing,and that was unique, and so I
feel like we were kind of Idon't know if, again, this is
where you know there's differentsubcultures and I think,
(32:31):
obviously I'm in a Christiansubculture, but I do think, as
I'm, even at the school wherewe're at, we're seeing families
that are not even Christianexperiencing more of like, the
importance of family, theimportance of experiencing
connectedness is overriding this, like you know, degree of
success that I think my kidsshould achieve and that could be
(32:53):
that you know it's the, I thinkyou know the society and
culture economically is likethis is gonna be the first, um,
like gen z is gonna be the onethat's gonna be in debt, gonna
not do better than their parents, uh, all of that, and so it's
like that.
Maybe that's the reality ishitting everyone.
It's like, well, we're going tohave to stick together, you
guys are probably going to movein, so I just need to understand
that, because that's what I'mseeing happen.
(33:15):
But I feel like, as part of ourrole as a Christian, to see the
right way is like I want to beinvolved in my child's life, I
want to send them out for themto flourish, but I want to have
a relationship with them enough,so they want to be close to me,
yeah, and anyway, I thinkthat's that's probably way more
than anyone really wanted tohear.
(33:35):
Uh, and then the last part isis lasting love?
Is pleasure, and I think one ofthe things I talked about is we
want to microwave, um, patience, permanence and purity, and
then just get right to thepleasure, and that's the problem
of culture as it is.
Yeah, big time, um, so, yeah, uh, what?
Yeah, and I think this is where, when you're on the East side
and you've got it's not todownplay the situation, but like
(33:58):
you've got a lot of single momswho, through whatever
circumstance, have foundthemselves where, uh, patience,
permanence and purity was rushed, and now they're living in that
reality, doing the best thatthey can with the, with the
situation that God has giventhem, uh, or that they've put
themselves in.
And so how are you challengingpeople to then, after you've,
sort of like, done it the wrongway, to now live for, uh, the
(34:22):
way that God designed?
Is there a way that you're, youknow, communicating that to the
church?
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Well, you always need both instruction and correction
, and so, positively frominstruction, like we just we're
teaching through our core valuesright now, on Sunday morning.
So we just taught on strongfamilies being one of our core
values this past Sunday andpreached out of Psalm 127,.
You know where it's like unlessthe Lord builds the house,
those who build it labor in vain.
Talks about children.
As it's like, unless the Lordbuilds the house, those who
build it labor in vain.
(34:49):
Talks about children asblessings, like, um that they're
like arrows in the hand of awarrior.
Um, just a biblical vision forstrong families that send your
children out to into the worldfor the glory of God.
And so, you know, we try toteach regularly, positively, on
like here's what a biblicalvision of family is.
Um, here's God's design formarriage, for parenting.
(35:10):
You know here's, here's thegoal that we're shooting for Now
.
Here's reality.
A lot of us have fallen short ofthat Um, and the good news is,
um, you know, the God of theBible is a God who takes people
who've fallen short and done itall the wrong ways and uses them
, um, in mighty ways for hisname.
And so, if you've screwedeverything up, you are the
perfect candidate for God to dosomething awesome in your life.
Just turn to him, put your eyeson Jesus, submit yourself to
(35:34):
his word.
Stop running away becauseyou're embarrassed or you're
afraid, or whatever.
Just lean into God, lean intothe church, obey the word and
God's gonna bless you.
That's the promise of scripture.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
I think what's wild for us is this past, because we
spent eight weeks in Song ofSolomon and our church, and what
I've understood is that somepeople have, like I can't come
to church during those eightweeks when you talk about
relationships, because eitherlike I'm single and I can't
manage that I'm, my marriage isin a difficult spot, and so I
(36:07):
don't want to hear about how I'mfailing again.
And I think what is importantto recognize is that kind of
what you're saying is God canredeem anything, and so I don't
want to hear that because I'vealready missed it or I've
already been broken by it,already been broken by.
(36:31):
I think there's a miss there,because you're not, you know,
letting the exposure of theidols of your heart, or sorry,
rather, the idols of your heartbe exposed to the light of God's
word and in a fear sense,Because I mean, whatever you
hear that might be wounds from afriend can be trusted, but the
enemy multiplies kisses.
And so I think that at somepoint you understand that God's
word is sharper than a two-edgedsword.
It's it's divides between jointand marrow, between the
(36:52):
thoughts and intentions of theheart, and I think that's one of
the beautiful things aboutGod's word is that it does stick
, but what can also be we misswhen we don't hear God's word is
you can be encouraged on allthe things you are doing
according to God's word, which Ithink most people have a
biblical framework.
They're like, yeah, and youprobably are doing a lot of
(37:14):
great things.
But I think what happens in ourculture, where we've become so
afraid of feeling bad which iswhy a lot of us numb out on
shows and alcohol or drugs orscrolling your phone is I don't
want to feel bad and so I won'texpose myself to something where
I know I'm in the wrong or I'mnot perfect, which nobody here
is perfect.
I think every time I preach theword on a Sunday, I'm like ugh.
(37:35):
In fact, it was really funny,adrienne, after you preach your
sermon, she's like man, we needto have Holland preach more
often.
I was like I was convicted bywhat Holland said, and so I
think there's a reality there.
Like, you need to have God'sWord proclaimed to you and have
an open heart to receive it,because the change that you'll
experience from it is ultimatelygoing to be a really great and
positive thing.
Amen, amen.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
That's good.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Yeah, hey, if you've got any questions regarding
faith, culture, everything inbetween, we'd love to talk about
it.
That's what we do here, and wetalk relationship stuff and we
want to help you be the best,greatest ever representatives of
Jesus and his church.
So if you've got any questions,text us in at 737-231-0605 or
(38:16):
go to PastorPlettcom.
We would love to hear from you,from our house to yours.
Have an awesome week.
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