April 29, 2025 • 24 mins
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354: Many church leaders know all too well about the "Elijah complex" – that peculiar spiritual attack that often follows mountaintop ministry experiences like Easter. Surprisingly, several pastors report being spared this post-Easter slump this year, perhaps due to intentional preparation and prayer. One touching story involved podcast listeners who created encouragement cards specifically to combat this phenomenon, demonstrating the power of community awareness and spiritual warfare preparation.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
And welcome back to Pastor Plek's podcast.
I'm your host, pastor Plek,along with Pastor Holland, greg,
pastor Holland, how are youDoing?
Great Thanks, chris.
So it has been an Easterweekend, indeed, so tell me what
Eastside Community Church didthis past weekend.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
We had a laundry outreach on Saturday.
We usually do it, you know, thelast Saturday of the month, but
we did it a week early so thatwe could invite people from
outreach to Easter Sunday anddid people come?
Uh, some baptisms on Sunday.
(00:42):
So we had a packed, you knowservice for our Easter service.
Um, several people fromoutreach came, brought family
members or friends.
We had six baptisms.
It was glorious.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
All right, so you know, let's go back to COVID.
Pre COVID how many did you havefor Easter?
Like one 50.
So you're almost there.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yeah, we were at like almost 140, I think this past
Sunday.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
That's really great.
We this past weekend had 415adults across the three services
, plus 95 kids, which was great,and so that was our second
highest ever, second only to2019, where we had 495 adults
(01:23):
plus another 100 kids.
Boom 2026.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
2026.26 back in action back in action, so like
we're getting close to thatpre-covid numeros yeah, and I've
heard uh similar, you know fromI mean it's always up and down
everyone.
You know some people easter isa lower number because everyone
in their church travels to gosee their family and stuff like
that, and so I don't know, we'vehad ups and downs over the
(01:46):
years, but I've heard a lot ofpeople sharing the same kind of
story of really seeing bignumbers of people coming back to
church and getting backinvolved and I don't know it's
encouraging.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Now, as you and I have always known, the day after
Easter is usually a big day ofspiritual attack.
Did you experience any of that?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Not, no, not really.
We had a long.
So after Easter we did alsoroller skating, because we meet,
you know, in a youthentertainment complex.
So we did bowling and rollerskating like a block party, you
know.
Tons of people came out forthat too, and a glow-in-the-dark
egg hunt on the roller rink.
Oh wow, and you know we werethere cleaning up and shutting
(02:29):
down, you know, till like fiveor something like that, then
went home and crashed and onMonday woke up and drove to
Houston to see my mom for herbirthday.
Wow, how was your mom?
She's, you know, I think.
You know we've talked aboutbattling a tough sickness and so
it's a struggle health-wise forher, but got to have a really
(02:50):
great visit.
It's my daughter's birthdaytoday, so we celebrated my mom's
birthday.
She got to celebrate mydaughter.
We got to have good qualitytime together and got to pray
for my mom and encourage her.
All the kids made her cards.
Oh, that's great.
So it was a really sweet visit.
And, yeah, just praying for amiracle.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Way to go, way to go.
Well, yeah, we'll be prayingalongside you for that, because
that's a big deal.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
But yeah, so doing that all day to answer your
question, I didn't feel like anyspiritual attack or anything
like that.
Just felt the encouragementfrom Sunday and then
thankfulness for being able tosee my mom.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yeah, I think that I personally didn't get any
spiritual attack on Monday,although Adrian and I probably
experienced a little.
We had a little argument on theFriday before Good Friday.
We had a little argument andthen we made it through because
we recognized the spiritualattack-edness of the weekend
Boom, and then Monday we weregloriously happy campers, Nice.
But yeah, I do feel like a lotof churches are experiencing the
(03:42):
spiritual attack that comeswith the.
I call it the Elijah complex,where you kind of call down fire
from heaven, you kill off allthe bad guys and then one person
says something, you freak outand you get depressed, and so I
think that is.
I think I was like that lastyear.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yeah, I think last year the Monday after yeah
that's right.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
I was feeling that, yeah, you were.
But here's what's really coolwhen we talked about the
spiritual attack of monday, uh,after easter, um, people from
this podcast, this very podcast,the listeners that have been
loyal followers, what do youcall your?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
followers.
You have a name um mighty plexstars.
Pastor plex Plex.
Pastor Plex stars, I don't knowwhat.
What do you call your listeners?
Pastor Plex people?
Uh, and so some.
Pastor Plex people.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Yeah, they, they.
They made a card for me andlike, gave it to me on Sunday
morning in preparation for whatwould be a Monday, and I think
their prayers were definitelyheard by the Lord and I had a
great day.
That's awesome.
That was wild man, that isreally day, and I think their
prayers were definitely heard bythe Lord and I had a great day.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
That was wild man that is really sweet, hey.
So all you guys out there, Ireally want you know from my
heart to yours thank you forthat card, Thank you for the way
that you have been buildinginto me.
It was a very awesomeexperience.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Okay, some, some kids in my church, I they at their
school.
They get points for being goodand stuff like that and they can
cash them in and get somethingfrom the store.
And three kids pooled theirpoints together to get me a
Bible as a gift for their pastor.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
That is so great.
I felt pretty blessed by that.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Hey, that is about as blessed as a gift.
We have some great churchesthat is pretty awesome.
Yeah, man.
Hey, that is about as blessedas it gets.
We have some great churchesthat is pretty awesome.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yeah, man, way to go church people out there.
We're really grateful for that,especially if you're buying
your pastor a Bible.
That's a big win Way to go.
Okay, so then let's talk aboutwhat did you talk about on
Easter.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
So we were doing a series through our core values.
We have eight s's and we didthe final s on easter, which was
spreading the gospel.
It's a lot of s?
Uh-huh.
Final one we did matthew 28.
So just read matthew 28 theaccount of the resurrection, the
empty tomb, and then jesus umsending uh first the women yeah,
(06:00):
so you know, it's aboutworshiping jesus and then going
and spreading the gospel nice,and yeah, it was about
worshiping Jesus and then goingand spreading the gospel Nice
and yeah it was great Way to go,okay, so for us we talked about
Romans 5, 8, and that was fun.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
I told some fun stories.
It was funny that sometimes I'ma little nervous about
preaching through an epistlebecause there's not a lot of
narrative there.
An epistle because there's nota lot of narrative there, like
you're having, the preachercreates the narrative around the
epistle.
Because you kind of have toformulate what's the story,
what's happening, who's Paulwriting to and why and when and
(06:35):
when you jump right into themiddle of the epistle, it can be
a little challenging.
It's not like you're watchingJesus and the resurrection, the
guards at the tomb freaking out,losing their minds.
You know getting paid.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
She's saying your sermon was harder than mine.
Because, I did.
No, that's basically.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
No, I'm just saying that, yeah, it was harder for me
not to do it a narrative style,because that's the way I pretty
much always.
I think this is the first timeI've ever gone a non-narrative
direction, yeah, and it turnedout okay nice.
I was sort of surprised, um, soyeah, we actually had a three
(07:11):
people.
We had a bunch of people raisetheir hand to receive jesus I
don't know if they all camethrough, but I had three people
follow up.
So, um, one, uh and to send himthe baptism course.
He, he, he received christ andthat's awesome.
Then talked to us afterwardsabout getting baptized.
And then we had an awesome guyfrom our deaf ministry who said
(07:35):
he made a decision for Christand he wants to get baptized,
which was great, and the factthat he's a teenager, he's a
high school kid.
That was um deaf and he but hecould talk, it was, it was I'd
never I hadn't experienced that.
So he was, he was really giftedat communicating.
I couldn't even tell he wasdeaf.
He had kind of like I had tofigure it out that he couldn't
(07:58):
hear and so someone'stranslating no, no, he was just
talking to me no, I'm saying forthe sermon
Speaker 2 (08:05):
you have a translation team, a deaf
ministry.
We have a deaf ministry andthrough that he received the
gospel.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Yeah, that's awesome.
It's amazing.
So, yeah, our first service hasa deaf ministry and they are so
great and they serve faithfullyas volunteers and it's really
encouraging to see.
So if you only come to secondservice and you don't see first
service, it's kind of a powerfulexperience to watch the deaf
(08:30):
worship over on the as you'relooking at the stage, the right
side.
Yeah, it's pretty awesome.
So what we talked about wasRomans 5a that God demonstrated
his love for us in this.
That, while we're still sinners, christ died for us and we
talked that love compelled Jesusto die on the cross for us in
this.
That, while we're still sinners, christ died for us and we
talked that love compelled Jesusto die on the cross for us.
Love compelled Jesus to endurethe wrath of God for us, and I
got to kind of share some of myfun thoughts on how we actually
(08:53):
already believe in hell.
We just don't like to call itGod's wrath.
We rather use the word karma orinstant karma even more.
So, right, we have just weaktheology out there, but we still
believe in justice, and so Italked a little about that and
then finally landed the plane on.
Love compelled Jesus toreconcile us to God.
(09:13):
One of the big struggles thatwe have in our culture is we
don't know what reconciliationlooks like.
We saw our parents fight andthen they just got divorced.
Or we saw people hurt us andwere're like you're dead to me,
uh, so that's kind of where ourculture has gone reconciliation
wise.
And I said that god's differentand wants to have relationship
(09:35):
with you so that's where we landthe plane.
Um, there was some big news thisweek, also in christendom, if
you will, if you can call itthat.
I'm not sure if that stillcounts, okay uh, I don't know if
you will, if you can call itthat.
I'm not sure if that stillcounts.
Okay, I don't know if you readabout this or heard about it,
saw anything about it, but thePope passed, that's right.
(09:56):
So I want us to talk a littlebit about Pope Francis and kind
of like where you felt that, howhe did as a pope, we can kind
of mourn collectively for him,thank God for his service to the
church, but where were you aton matters of where he was, with
(10:21):
just his basic theology?
Speaker 2 (10:34):
He.
Well, for starters, he'scatholic, so you know that's
different starting off alreadyon.
Uh, you know, for us asprotestants, um, we are those
who said you are wrong, right tothe catholics um.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
So, first off, he's wrong.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
All right, that's that's, you know, uh, this is
what it is.
So, as protestants, obviouslythere's some pretty significant
theological differences, buteven, um, setting those things
aside, um, he was commonly likehad a pretty liberal position
about salvation, essentiallysaying that it was maybe trying
(11:12):
to remember how, six months ago,or I'm trying to remember when
it was a while back, maybe, yeah, maybe September I was trying
to look at something.
I took a note about it, but hehad uh, there's a video of him
like at this uh, like youth yeah, the youth kids um conference
or something like thatmulti-faith conference, and
(11:34):
basically he was saying like allreligions are um a pathway to
god and different people tryingto get to god, and he was asking
the kids questions like do youthink you know one religion?
You know I can religion, youknow I can't.
I'm not going to say myreligion is better than yours,
like to the Hindu and the Muslimkid and stuff.
They're all you know like equal, so very liberal in terms of
(11:55):
just like you know, borderlineuniversalism, essentially Um and
uh, yeah, I mean when you, whenyou're that loose with
salvation as opposed to that wasan opportunity for him to be
like hey, kids, here's what youneed to know.
There's one way to God JesusChrist, like boom.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
You know, tell him the truth, like yeah, why, I
mean why, yeah?
So I feel like I think in 2013,he goes the Lord has redeemed
all of us, not just Catholics,everyone, even the atheists.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
And you're like yeah, and I've got some Catholic
friends who you know would belike well, what he meant by that
is this and you know, pope,apologists, and I don't know.
I mean I don't know hisintentions.
Only God knows someone's heart,but all we have to judge is
their, their words, theiractions and so like.
There's a lot you know that hetaught that was very liberal,
(12:50):
very borderline, universalismand um, uh, affirming of um
unbiblical, you know, view ofsexuality and marriage and um,
there's a lot that he was justkind of liberal and progressive
on, I think yeah, and I thinkthat's where it should be
interesting to see who thecardinals pick to be the next
(13:13):
pope.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
So the pope before him, pope Benedict, I thought
was pretty solid.
Honestly, he was great.
For a catholic, alright.
So yeah, for a catholic, he wasgreat.
And then now for a catholicyeah, for a catholic, all right.
So yeah, for a catholic, uh, hewas.
He was pretty, like you know,salvation by grace, through
faith, and he was able toarticulate it, which is rare, um
(13:36):
.
But whereas, whereas popefrancis was like same-sex
attraction is not a sin, uh, hewould just be like in the acting
on it category of sinful, yeah,and he at least did not bless
or recognize same-sex marriages.
So, anyway, but what he did saywas like who am I to judge?
You spoke in reference to gaypeople seeking God with goodwill
(13:59):
, and you're like, okay, I thinkhe meant to emphasize mercy and
humility, but not change thedoctrinal stance.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Yeah, yeah, definitely mercy and humility,
but not change the doctrinalstance.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
In terms of just hisdisposition, mercy and humility
was.
You know, I think, prettyclearly how he carried himself
and the posture that he had.
But mercy and humility divorcedfrom truth and justice, it's
false humility, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
So anyway, yeah.
So I'm excited for theCatholics to get a pope that is
more doctrinally in line witheven just basic Catholic
doctrine.
I'm good with that.
I'm praying for a Protestantpope.
It's one of the things wherethe Pope has so much sway over
(14:47):
Catholics, as he probably should.
He's the head of the CatholicChurch.
I would really like someone tojust be theologically on board,
solid dude.
That would just sort of bringback a sense of, I don't know,
renewal and reformation.
There you go, yeah, I know Somereformation.
Yeah.
But there you go, yeah, I knowsome reformation.
(15:10):
Yeah, anytime you have like,because I think their thing is,
uh, scripture plus traditionplus magisterium or something is
where they get church likeauthority, uh for life.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
and I think you got papal infallibility.
And so I mean, if the pope says, hey, this, we're believing
Protestant doctrine now.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Win, win.
You know, if you wanted toHolland, you could infiltrate
the Catholic Church, become apriest, work your way up, become
Pope and then boom, you changethe whole thing.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
You don't think it's too late to get started on that
path, you know listen.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
I mean, god can do all things, I don't know.
All right, well, all right.
So let's talk about where youfeel like evangelicals in the
culture at large.
Where are we looking at for thenext thing that we're talking
about?
I think one of the thingsthat's coming up is men and
(16:06):
women roles of men and women inchurch.
I think that's going to be abig thing coming up, I think.
How does the church approachhomosexuality?
I think that's something thatthe Catholic church is probably
going to have to deal with.
And then, how do you navigate apost-literate Christian culture
(16:29):
when it comes to things such asgetting alone with God to read
the Scripture?
Any thoughts on?
Speaker 2 (16:34):
that Post-literate, meaning you're talking about
people just being so obsessedwith their phones nobody reads
books anymore.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
I mean they read stuff.
They read text messages.
Lol JK BRB.
I mean they read stuff, theyread text messages.
Lol JK BRB.
But they have a hard time withbeing focused on words for more
than five minutes.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
My take on.
Virtually every systemic andsocietal problem comes back to
fathers.
Lead your families well, yeah,do family worship.
Bring your kids to church,serve in your church, teach the
Bible to your kids, love theLord Jesus, and you can, even
from a.
In a post-literate culture, thechurch can raise a
(17:20):
counterculture.
Um, within that, yeah, always,I appreciate that All right.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Um, yeah, so I do feel like that.
So, as the the church movesforward in the next era, uh, I
feel like this is where more andmore men and women's roles
which I think the Catholics havedone a pretty good job of
making distinct roles for menand women to serve the church
ultimately, yeah, I think.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Pope Francis was.
That was one thing that he wasactually like kind of firm on,
which was interesting.
He was firm on what I believe,like they.
He was asked about like women'sordination and he was just like
no, Huh, ordination.
(18:04):
And he was just like no, huh.
And um they're, you know,usually um a softer stance on
homosexuality transgenderismtends to go hand in hand with
egalitarianism and um, women'sordination and if I'm I may be
wrong on this because I'm I'mnot like some, you know, Pope
expert, but you know I try tokeep up with news clips and
videos and things like that.
(18:24):
But I remember seeing somevideo of him where he was asked
about that and I think he heldthe line on that one.
And, yeah, technically held theline when it came to
homosexuality as well, but Ithink was too soft on that in
terms of saying we're not goingto officially bless same-sex
(18:47):
marriages but we are going tobless the couples themselves.
I think is the position that hetook and just pray for God's
blessing on their relationship.
So he had some interestingpositions that were not really
traditional on theirrelationship.
So he had some interestingpositions that were not really
traditional.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
No, it was wild, but I do appreciate.
He said the issue is closedabout ordaining women.
Yeah, that to me.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I thought he was firm on that one.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Like super firm, like it's not open to
reconsideration.
But then he got into the roleof women deacons, which we have
at our church because we believethat that's scriptural that
women can be deacons which wehave in our church because we
believe that that's scripturalthat women can be deacons and he
(19:28):
goes.
Hey, in 2016, franciscommissioned a study to study
the role of women deacons in theearly church.
The commission explored whetherwomen could serve in a restored
permanent diaconate, a stepbelow priesthood, focused on
service, not sacramental dutieslike consecrating the Eucharist.
And then a second commissionwas launched in 2020, but no
decision has been made yet.
Uh, he's opening to stay in thehistorical role, but hasn't
endorsed female ordination asdeacons, which is interesting.
(19:49):
Yeah, like that's where they'repretty hardcore on the
tradition and uh, you know, andthis is where you can go either
way on that um, deacon justmeans servant and so, great,
your official role of the churchis the office of servant, which
is great.
I think that's great and mepersonally, I kind of go from
(20:10):
the route of that could be opento a man or woman based on women
being called deacons orservants, and that's yeah, I
think my kind of my, my study onthat is there's been.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
You know, you said deacon just means servant.
You could go well.
Elder just means older person,but it has a more formal
definition in terms of an office.
So the.
If the office entails authorityover others, then for um a
woman to woman to be a woman,who's a deacon?
If that office is just aserving role, that's one thing,
(20:51):
but if it entails authority overmen, it would be violating 1
Timothy, 2 and 12.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
You have to be a true servant, Violating yeah.
1 Timothy, 2, 12.
You have to be a true servant,yeah, and that could be
organizing, facilitating allsorts of things to you know,
like, hey, as the elderscommission, I need you to
organize this event, and I don'tthink anyone's going to be that
would find that in violation of, because there's no biblical
(21:17):
authority that we're talkingabout there.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Well, yeah, there's some traditions that deacon is
an authoritative role.
It's an office that carriesauthority.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
The deacon is essentially an elder, which I
always wondered why they wentthat route.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Do you know why?
I don't know, it's different.
It's looked different indifferent um uh branches of you
know baptist churches, um.
But yeah, essentially some thedeacons had an authoritative
role um that was functioned likehow like an elder board would
work um, whereas uh, the pastorwas focused on just preaching
(21:55):
and teaching yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
It was.
It was interesting that.
So I guess the only elder oflike some Baptist church is that
the deacon board.
The deacon board.
They were not pastors, the onlyelder then was the pastor and
that was like a pastor-ledchurch.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Yeah, but the deacons , you know, were in charge of so
many different things.
I think, trying to follow themodel of taking, you know, acts
chapter six we're in charge ofso many different things I think
, trying to follow the model oftaking Acts 6, we need to focus
on the word and prayer and notserving tables, and then you
take that model the deacons takea lot of things off the
pastor's plate, but what ends uphappening is the deacons end up
(22:33):
kind of functionally being incharge of everything other than
preaching and kind of runningthe church, um, as pseudo elders
right, it gets confusing yeahokay, well, that's just a quick,
quick little thought.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Some some ecclesiology there, for, uh, as
we take a look at pope francisand his uh legacy post, pope
benedict, pope benedict only, Ithink, served like five years
really yeah, and I think hedidn't like die in office.
Um, he just resigned, which Ithought was.
I thought that was sort of wild.
(23:05):
Yeah, eight years, eight yearsokay yeah, so kind of odd that
he what's the average time for apope to be a pope?
I don't know you know that is.
I actually think they have aPope.
Let's see.
That would be seven to eightyears.
That's really Okay.
(23:26):
Yeah, it's kind of wild.
So Pope Pius IX served 31 years.
Pope John Paul II served 27years.
Okay, so you've got St Peter,traditionally the first Pope
around 34 years.
Pope Pius IX, longest verified,31 years, 1846 to 1878.
(23:48):
John Paul II 1978-2005.
Pope Benedict.
And then you've got, and thenPope Francis just died, so he
was at 12 years.
So anyway, it's kind of wildhow the popes roll.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
There you go.
Now you know, yeah, no one'shalf the battle.
Hey, listen, we love yourquestions.
Please send us a shout, let usknow what you're thinking.
We talk faith, culture,everything in between.
We'd love to hear from you, so,from our house to yours.
Have an awesome week of worship.
And welcome back to Pastor Plek's podcast.
I'm your host, pastor Plek,along with Pastor Holland, greg,
pastor Holland, how are youDoing?
Great Thanks, chris.
So it has been an Easterweekend, indeed, so tell me what
Eastside Community Church didthis past weekend.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
We had a laundry outreach on Saturday.
We usually do it, you know, thelast Saturday of the month, but
we did it a week early so thatwe could invite people from
outreach to Easter Sunday anddid people come?
Uh, some baptisms on Sunday.
(00:42):
So we had a packed, you knowservice for our Easter service.
Um, several people fromoutreach came, brought family
members or friends.
We had six baptisms.
It was glorious.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
All right, so you know, let's go back to COVID.
Pre COVID how many did you havefor Easter?
Like one 50.
So you're almost there.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yeah, we were at like almost 140, I think this past
Sunday.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
That's really great.
We this past weekend had 415adults across the three services
, plus 95 kids, which was great,and so that was our second
highest ever, second only to2019, where we had 495 adults
(01:23):
plus another 100 kids.
Boom 2026.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
2026.26 back in action back in action, so like
we're getting close to thatpre-covid numeros yeah, and I've
heard uh similar, you know fromI mean it's always up and down
everyone.
You know some people easter isa lower number because everyone
in their church travels to gosee their family and stuff like
that, and so I don't know, we'vehad ups and downs over the
(01:46):
years, but I've heard a lot ofpeople sharing the same kind of
story of really seeing bignumbers of people coming back to
church and getting backinvolved and I don't know it's
encouraging.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Now, as you and I have always known, the day after
Easter is usually a big day ofspiritual attack.
Did you experience any of that?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Not, no, not really.
We had a long.
So after Easter we did alsoroller skating, because we meet,
you know, in a youthentertainment complex.
So we did bowling and rollerskating like a block party, you
know.
Tons of people came out forthat too, and a glow-in-the-dark
egg hunt on the roller rink.
Oh wow, and you know we werethere cleaning up and shutting
(02:29):
down, you know, till like fiveor something like that, then
went home and crashed and onMonday woke up and drove to
Houston to see my mom for herbirthday.
Wow, how was your mom?
She's, you know, I think.
You know we've talked aboutbattling a tough sickness and so
it's a struggle health-wise forher, but got to have a really
(02:50):
great visit.
It's my daughter's birthdaytoday, so we celebrated my mom's
birthday.
She got to celebrate mydaughter.
We got to have good qualitytime together and got to pray
for my mom and encourage her.
All the kids made her cards.
Oh, that's great.
So it was a really sweet visit.
And, yeah, just praying for amiracle.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Way to go, way to go.
Well, yeah, we'll be prayingalongside you for that, because
that's a big deal.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
But yeah, so doing that all day to answer your
question, I didn't feel like anyspiritual attack or anything
like that.
Just felt the encouragementfrom Sunday and then
thankfulness for being able tosee my mom.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yeah, I think that I personally didn't get any
spiritual attack on Monday,although Adrian and I probably
experienced a little.
We had a little argument on theFriday before Good Friday.
We had a little argument andthen we made it through because
we recognized the spiritualattack-edness of the weekend
Boom, and then Monday we weregloriously happy campers, Nice.
But yeah, I do feel like a lotof churches are experiencing the
(03:42):
spiritual attack that comeswith the.
I call it the Elijah complex,where you kind of call down fire
from heaven, you kill off allthe bad guys and then one person
says something, you freak outand you get depressed, and so I
think that is.
I think I was like that lastyear.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yeah, I think last year the Monday after yeah
that's right.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
I was feeling that, yeah, you were.
But here's what's really coolwhen we talked about the
spiritual attack of monday, uh,after easter, um, people from
this podcast, this very podcast,the listeners that have been
loyal followers, what do youcall your?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
followers.
You have a name um mighty plexstars.
Pastor plex Plex.
Pastor Plex stars, I don't knowwhat.
What do you call your listeners?
Pastor Plex people?
Uh, and so some.
Pastor Plex people.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Yeah, they, they.
They made a card for me andlike, gave it to me on Sunday
morning in preparation for whatwould be a Monday, and I think
their prayers were definitelyheard by the Lord and I had a
great day.
That's awesome.
That was wild man, that isreally day, and I think their
prayers were definitely heard bythe Lord and I had a great day.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
That was wild man that is really sweet, hey.
So all you guys out there, Ireally want you know from my
heart to yours thank you forthat card, Thank you for the way
that you have been buildinginto me.
It was a very awesomeexperience.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Okay, some, some kids in my church, I they at their
school.
They get points for being goodand stuff like that and they can
cash them in and get somethingfrom the store.
And three kids pooled theirpoints together to get me a
Bible as a gift for their pastor.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
That is so great.
I felt pretty blessed by that.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Hey, that is about as blessed as a gift.
We have some great churchesthat is pretty awesome.
Yeah, man.
Hey, that is about as blessedas it gets.
We have some great churchesthat is pretty awesome.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yeah, man, way to go church people out there.
We're really grateful for that,especially if you're buying
your pastor a Bible.
That's a big win Way to go.
Okay, so then let's talk aboutwhat did you talk about on
Easter.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
So we were doing a series through our core values.
We have eight s's and we didthe final s on easter, which was
spreading the gospel.
It's a lot of s?
Uh-huh.
Final one we did matthew 28.
So just read matthew 28 theaccount of the resurrection, the
empty tomb, and then jesus umsending uh first the women yeah,
(06:00):
so you know, it's aboutworshiping jesus and then going
and spreading the gospel nice,and yeah, it was about
worshiping Jesus and then goingand spreading the gospel Nice
and yeah it was great Way to go,okay, so for us we talked about
Romans 5, 8, and that was fun.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
I told some fun stories.
It was funny that sometimes I'ma little nervous about
preaching through an epistlebecause there's not a lot of
narrative there.
An epistle because there's nota lot of narrative there, like
you're having, the preachercreates the narrative around the
epistle.
Because you kind of have toformulate what's the story,
what's happening, who's Paulwriting to and why and when and
(06:35):
when you jump right into themiddle of the epistle, it can be
a little challenging.
It's not like you're watchingJesus and the resurrection, the
guards at the tomb freaking out,losing their minds.
You know getting paid.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
She's saying your sermon was harder than mine.
Because, I did.
No, that's basically.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
No, I'm just saying that, yeah, it was harder for me
not to do it a narrative style,because that's the way I pretty
much always.
I think this is the first timeI've ever gone a non-narrative
direction, yeah, and it turnedout okay nice.
I was sort of surprised, um, soyeah, we actually had a three
(07:11):
people.
We had a bunch of people raisetheir hand to receive jesus I
don't know if they all camethrough, but I had three people
follow up.
So, um, one, uh and to send himthe baptism course.
He, he, he received christ andthat's awesome.
Then talked to us afterwardsabout getting baptized.
And then we had an awesome guyfrom our deaf ministry who said
(07:35):
he made a decision for Christand he wants to get baptized,
which was great, and the factthat he's a teenager, he's a
high school kid.
That was um deaf and he but hecould talk, it was, it was I'd
never I hadn't experienced that.
So he was, he was really giftedat communicating.
I couldn't even tell he wasdeaf.
He had kind of like I had tofigure it out that he couldn't
(07:58):
hear and so someone'stranslating no, no, he was just
talking to me no, I'm saying forthe sermon
Speaker 2 (08:05):
you have a translation team, a deaf
ministry.
We have a deaf ministry andthrough that he received the
gospel.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Yeah, that's awesome.
It's amazing.
So, yeah, our first service hasa deaf ministry and they are so
great and they serve faithfullyas volunteers and it's really
encouraging to see.
So if you only come to secondservice and you don't see first
service, it's kind of a powerfulexperience to watch the deaf
(08:30):
worship over on the as you'relooking at the stage, the right
side.
Yeah, it's pretty awesome.
So what we talked about wasRomans 5a that God demonstrated
his love for us in this.
That, while we're still sinners, christ died for us and we
talked that love compelled Jesusto die on the cross for us in
this.
That, while we're still sinners, christ died for us and we
talked that love compelled Jesusto die on the cross for us.
Love compelled Jesus to endurethe wrath of God for us, and I
got to kind of share some of myfun thoughts on how we actually
(08:53):
already believe in hell.
We just don't like to call itGod's wrath.
We rather use the word karma orinstant karma even more.
So, right, we have just weaktheology out there, but we still
believe in justice, and so Italked a little about that and
then finally landed the plane on.
Love compelled Jesus toreconcile us to God.
(09:13):
One of the big struggles thatwe have in our culture is we
don't know what reconciliationlooks like.
We saw our parents fight andthen they just got divorced.
Or we saw people hurt us andwere're like you're dead to me,
uh, so that's kind of where ourculture has gone reconciliation
wise.
And I said that god's differentand wants to have relationship
(09:35):
with you so that's where we landthe plane.
Um, there was some big news thisweek, also in christendom, if
you will, if you can call itthat.
I'm not sure if that stillcounts, okay uh, I don't know if
you will, if you can call itthat.
I'm not sure if that stillcounts.
Okay, I don't know if you readabout this or heard about it,
saw anything about it, but thePope passed, that's right.
(09:56):
So I want us to talk a littlebit about Pope Francis and kind
of like where you felt that, howhe did as a pope, we can kind
of mourn collectively for him,thank God for his service to the
church, but where were you aton matters of where he was, with
(10:21):
just his basic theology?
Speaker 2 (10:34):
He.
Well, for starters, he'scatholic, so you know that's
different starting off alreadyon.
Uh, you know, for us asprotestants, um, we are those
who said you are wrong, right tothe catholics um.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
So, first off, he's wrong.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
All right, that's that's, you know, uh, this is
what it is.
So, as protestants, obviouslythere's some pretty significant
theological differences, buteven, um, setting those things
aside, um, he was commonly likehad a pretty liberal position
about salvation, essentiallysaying that it was maybe trying
(11:12):
to remember how, six months ago,or I'm trying to remember when
it was a while back, maybe, yeah, maybe September I was trying
to look at something.
I took a note about it, but hehad uh, there's a video of him
like at this uh, like youth yeah, the youth kids um conference
or something like thatmulti-faith conference, and
(11:34):
basically he was saying like allreligions are um a pathway to
god and different people tryingto get to god, and he was asking
the kids questions like do youthink you know one religion?
You know I can religion, youknow I can't.
I'm not going to say myreligion is better than yours,
like to the Hindu and the Muslimkid and stuff.
They're all you know like equal, so very liberal in terms of
(11:55):
just like you know, borderlineuniversalism, essentially Um and
uh, yeah, I mean when you, whenyou're that loose with
salvation as opposed to that wasan opportunity for him to be
like hey, kids, here's what youneed to know.
There's one way to God JesusChrist, like boom.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
You know, tell him the truth, like yeah, why, I
mean why, yeah?
So I feel like I think in 2013,he goes the Lord has redeemed
all of us, not just Catholics,everyone, even the atheists.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
And you're like yeah, and I've got some Catholic
friends who you know would belike well, what he meant by that
is this and you know, pope,apologists, and I don't know.
I mean I don't know hisintentions.
Only God knows someone's heart,but all we have to judge is
their, their words, theiractions and so like.
There's a lot you know that hetaught that was very liberal,
(12:50):
very borderline, universalismand um, uh, affirming of um
unbiblical, you know, view ofsexuality and marriage and um,
there's a lot that he was justkind of liberal and progressive
on, I think yeah, and I thinkthat's where it should be
interesting to see who thecardinals pick to be the next
(13:13):
pope.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
So the pope before him, pope Benedict, I thought
was pretty solid.
Honestly, he was great.
For a catholic, alright.
So yeah, for a catholic, he wasgreat.
And then now for a catholicyeah, for a catholic, all right.
So yeah, for a catholic, uh, hewas.
He was pretty, like you know,salvation by grace, through
faith, and he was able toarticulate it, which is rare, um
(13:36):
.
But whereas, whereas popefrancis was like same-sex
attraction is not a sin, uh, hewould just be like in the acting
on it category of sinful, yeah,and he at least did not bless
or recognize same-sex marriages.
So, anyway, but what he did saywas like who am I to judge?
You spoke in reference to gaypeople seeking God with goodwill
(13:59):
, and you're like, okay, I thinkhe meant to emphasize mercy and
humility, but not change thedoctrinal stance.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Yeah, yeah, definitely mercy and humility,
but not change the doctrinalstance.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
In terms of just hisdisposition, mercy and humility
was.
You know, I think, prettyclearly how he carried himself
and the posture that he had.
But mercy and humility divorcedfrom truth and justice, it's
false humility, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
So anyway, yeah.
So I'm excited for theCatholics to get a pope that is
more doctrinally in line witheven just basic Catholic
doctrine.
I'm good with that.
I'm praying for a Protestantpope.
It's one of the things wherethe Pope has so much sway over
(14:47):
Catholics, as he probably should.
He's the head of the CatholicChurch.
I would really like someone tojust be theologically on board,
solid dude.
That would just sort of bringback a sense of, I don't know,
renewal and reformation.
There you go, yeah, I know Somereformation.
Yeah.
But there you go, yeah, I knowsome reformation.
(15:10):
Yeah, anytime you have like,because I think their thing is,
uh, scripture plus traditionplus magisterium or something is
where they get church likeauthority, uh for life.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
and I think you got papal infallibility.
And so I mean, if the pope says, hey, this, we're believing
Protestant doctrine now.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Win, win.
You know, if you wanted toHolland, you could infiltrate
the Catholic Church, become apriest, work your way up, become
Pope and then boom, you changethe whole thing.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
You don't think it's too late to get started on that
path, you know listen.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
I mean, god can do all things, I don't know.
All right, well, all right.
So let's talk about where youfeel like evangelicals in the
culture at large.
Where are we looking at for thenext thing that we're talking
about?
I think one of the thingsthat's coming up is men and
(16:06):
women roles of men and women inchurch.
I think that's going to be abig thing coming up, I think.
How does the church approachhomosexuality?
I think that's something thatthe Catholic church is probably
going to have to deal with.
And then, how do you navigate apost-literate Christian culture
(16:29):
when it comes to things such asgetting alone with God to read
the Scripture?
Any thoughts on?
Speaker 2 (16:34):
that Post-literate, meaning you're talking about
people just being so obsessedwith their phones nobody reads
books anymore.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
I mean they read stuff.
They read text messages.
Lol JK BRB.
I mean they read stuff, theyread text messages.
Lol JK BRB.
But they have a hard time withbeing focused on words for more
than five minutes.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
My take on.
Virtually every systemic andsocietal problem comes back to
fathers.
Lead your families well, yeah,do family worship.
Bring your kids to church,serve in your church, teach the
Bible to your kids, love theLord Jesus, and you can, even
from a.
In a post-literate culture, thechurch can raise a
(17:20):
counterculture.
Um, within that, yeah, always,I appreciate that All right.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Um, yeah, so I do feel like that.
So, as the the church movesforward in the next era, uh, I
feel like this is where more andmore men and women's roles
which I think the Catholics havedone a pretty good job of
making distinct roles for menand women to serve the church
ultimately, yeah, I think.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Pope Francis was.
That was one thing that he wasactually like kind of firm on,
which was interesting.
He was firm on what I believe,like they.
He was asked about like women'sordination and he was just like
no, Huh, ordination.
(18:04):
And he was just like no, huh.
And um they're, you know,usually um a softer stance on
homosexuality transgenderismtends to go hand in hand with
egalitarianism and um, women'sordination and if I'm I may be
wrong on this because I'm I'mnot like some, you know, Pope
expert, but you know I try tokeep up with news clips and
videos and things like that.
(18:24):
But I remember seeing somevideo of him where he was asked
about that and I think he heldthe line on that one.
And, yeah, technically held theline when it came to
homosexuality as well, but Ithink was too soft on that in
terms of saying we're not goingto officially bless same-sex
(18:47):
marriages but we are going tobless the couples themselves.
I think is the position that hetook and just pray for God's
blessing on their relationship.
So he had some interestingpositions that were not really
traditional on theirrelationship.
So he had some interestingpositions that were not really
traditional.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
No, it was wild, but I do appreciate.
He said the issue is closedabout ordaining women.
Yeah, that to me.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I thought he was firm on that one.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Like super firm, like it's not open to
reconsideration.
But then he got into the roleof women deacons, which we have
at our church because we believethat that's scriptural that
women can be deacons which wehave in our church because we
believe that that's scripturalthat women can be deacons and he
(19:28):
goes.
Hey, in 2016, franciscommissioned a study to study
the role of women deacons in theearly church.
The commission explored whetherwomen could serve in a restored
permanent diaconate, a stepbelow priesthood, focused on
service, not sacramental dutieslike consecrating the Eucharist.
And then a second commissionwas launched in 2020, but no
decision has been made yet.
Uh, he's opening to stay in thehistorical role, but hasn't
endorsed female ordination asdeacons, which is interesting.
(19:49):
Yeah, like that's where they'repretty hardcore on the
tradition and uh, you know, andthis is where you can go either
way on that um, deacon justmeans servant and so, great,
your official role of the churchis the office of servant, which
is great.
I think that's great and mepersonally, I kind of go from
(20:10):
the route of that could be opento a man or woman based on women
being called deacons orservants, and that's yeah, I
think my kind of my, my study onthat is there's been.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
You know, you said deacon just means servant.
You could go well.
Elder just means older person,but it has a more formal
definition in terms of an office.
So the.
If the office entails authorityover others, then for um a
woman to woman to be a woman,who's a deacon?
If that office is just aserving role, that's one thing,
(20:51):
but if it entails authority overmen, it would be violating 1
Timothy, 2 and 12.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
You have to be a true servant, Violating yeah.
1 Timothy, 2, 12.
You have to be a true servant,yeah, and that could be
organizing, facilitating allsorts of things to you know,
like, hey, as the elderscommission, I need you to
organize this event, and I don'tthink anyone's going to be that
would find that in violation of, because there's no biblical
(21:17):
authority that we're talkingabout there.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Well, yeah, there's some traditions that deacon is
an authoritative role.
It's an office that carriesauthority.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
The deacon is essentially an elder, which I
always wondered why they wentthat route.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Do you know why?
I don't know, it's different.
It's looked different indifferent um uh branches of you
know baptist churches, um.
But yeah, essentially some thedeacons had an authoritative
role um that was functioned likehow like an elder board would
work um, whereas uh, the pastorwas focused on just preaching
(21:55):
and teaching yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
It was.
It was interesting that.
So I guess the only elder oflike some Baptist church is that
the deacon board.
The deacon board.
They were not pastors, the onlyelder then was the pastor and
that was like a pastor-ledchurch.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Yeah, but the deacons , you know, were in charge of so
many different things.
I think, trying to follow themodel of taking, you know, acts
chapter six we're in charge ofso many different things I think
, trying to follow the model oftaking Acts 6, we need to focus
on the word and prayer and notserving tables, and then you
take that model the deacons takea lot of things off the
pastor's plate, but what ends uphappening is the deacons end up
(22:33):
kind of functionally being incharge of everything other than
preaching and kind of runningthe church, um, as pseudo elders
right, it gets confusing yeahokay, well, that's just a quick,
quick little thought.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Some some ecclesiology there, for, uh, as
we take a look at pope francisand his uh legacy post, pope
benedict, pope benedict only, Ithink, served like five years
really yeah, and I think hedidn't like die in office.
Um, he just resigned, which Ithought was.
I thought that was sort of wild.
(23:05):
Yeah, eight years, eight yearsokay yeah, so kind of odd that
he what's the average time for apope to be a pope?
I don't know you know that is.
I actually think they have aPope.
Let's see.
That would be seven to eightyears.
That's really Okay.
(23:26):
Yeah, it's kind of wild.
So Pope Pius IX served 31 years.
Pope John Paul II served 27years.
Okay, so you've got St Peter,traditionally the first Pope
around 34 years.
Pope Pius IX, longest verified,31 years, 1846 to 1878.
(23:48):
John Paul II 1978-2005.
Pope Benedict.
And then you've got, and thenPope Francis just died, so he
was at 12 years.
So anyway, it's kind of wildhow the popes roll.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
There you go.
Now you know, yeah, no one'shalf the battle.
Hey, listen, we love yourquestions.
Please send us a shout, let usknow what you're thinking.
We talk faith, culture,everything in between.
We'd love to hear from you, so,from our house to yours.
Have an awesome week of worship.
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