April 9, 2025 • 29 mins
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351: The Romans Road offers a profound journey through Scripture, guiding us from the recognition of our sinful nature to the embrace of God's redemptive grace. This episode unpacks this powerful evangelistic tool, examining how verses from Paul's letter to the Romans illuminate our universal need for salvation and Christ's perfect provision.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
and welcome back to pastor plex podcast.
I am your host, pastor plec.
Joining me is pastor hollandgreg.
Welcome back, holland, hello.
Hey, we're talking about thesermon from sunday, which was on
the romans road, and if you'renot familiar with the romans
road, that is a way of sharingthe gospel, and you know the
verses for the romans road, I doromans 3.23, romans 6.23,
(00:27):
romans 5.8, romans 10.9.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yeah, does it bother you that it goes out of order?
Oh, does it 3, 6, 5, 10.
Yeah, no, it's kind of likeleapfrog If you see it like that
.
Oh, I like that.
It's fine that way.
Okay, because the 323, 623, yougot the 23s connection.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Yeah, and it's a doubling.
Yeah, the doubling of the 5 tothe 10, the doubling of 3 to 6.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah, there's a lot of ways that I can be okay with
it going out of order.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Now, have you ever used the Roman's road to lead
somebody to Christ?
I have, okay, so tell me, like,at the end of it, what do you
say at the end after they go?
They believe it.
What do you do?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
After they believe it , if they like, confess.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
If they go because do you have, give me your, do you
go?
Do you have them read the verseor do you read it to them?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Oh, it depends, you know, if we're like on the
street doing evangelism, it'sone thing If I'm.
Recently I sat down insomeone's apartment big family
who all wanted to learn how tobe a Christian.
Everyone got Bibles out and wewent through the Romans road.
I had each of them read a verseand we talked about it, and so
it depends on the situation.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Do you remember?
In prison ministry, you go allright, are you a sinner?
Are you a sinner?
Yes, Are you a sinner.
And is that the way you did itwith the 10 kids?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Not exactly Similar, though.
The same thing of just askingdo you believe that you're a
sinner?
Not just pointing at themdirectly, but the same idea of
having each person respond Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
And after they say yes, that they believe that
Jesus rose from the dead.
What do you do then?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
I encourage them to pray and repent from their sin.
Pray and then-.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Do you lead them through a prayer or do you just
kind of like say, go for it?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Lead them through a prayer.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yeah, yeah, I do too.
I know there's been a lot ofcriticism of the sinner's prayer
, but I'm kind of a fan.
I am too Like what else do youdo?
I mean, now, here's the wayI've changed it or modified it.
So there's one verse that Ilike to add in which I feel
works it's not in the Romans,but it helps out the whole
(02:40):
process of praying In Luke 11,13, it says how much more will
the Father in heaven give theHoly Spirit to anyone who asks
Him?
So I say, hey, would you like toask for the Holy Spirit to come
into your life?
And so they're like sure.
And I go, okay, well, are you asinner?
They're like, yeah, do you wantforgiveness?
Yeah, do you believe Jesus diedon the cross for your sins?
(03:01):
Yes, believe he rose from thedead?
Yes, do you want to ask theHoly Spirit to come into your
life?
Yes, and then I essentiallypray that because I feel like
that is a part.
You know, you've heard peoplelike praying Jesus into your
heart, and I'm not thumbs downon that.
I just want to make sure thatthey understand the Holy Spirit
is what dwells them.
You know you're joining Jesuson in oneness, so does it come
(03:27):
to your heart.
Sure, yeah, yeah.
So I know that's got a lot ofcriticism over the years, but I
still think it works.
I think it works too.
Yeah, great, all right.
So let's talk about Joel.
Preached and he shared hisstory, which is pretty crazy.
Preached and he shared hisstory, which is pretty crazy.
What got his attention was hiscar flipped over four times on
(03:48):
the interstate heading toMississippi from Austin, texas.
And that's when he said youknow what?
I think I've fallen short Timeto believe in God, time to
believe in Jesus.
And he said his lifetransformed from that point.
Now, I know, not everybody has acar-flipping experience, but we
can all recognize that we fallshort and that's the whole point
(04:09):
of Romans 3.23, for all havesinned and fall short of the
glory of God.
The whole point of that verseis to remind us all that nobody
comes as a Christian, as ifthey've already arrived.
And the thing about Romans is,I think he's running to the
(04:29):
church in Rome, so he's assumingeverybody already there is a
Christian.
But even as a Christian, youlook back, it's not like anyone
came believing, not that anyonecame redeemed, that they had to
go through some metamorphosis intheir spiritual life where
they're recognized they weredead in sin to be alive forever.
And I think some people havethey struggle with that.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah, yeah.
I also think Paul is mindful ofthe fact that there's going to
be unregenerate people in everychurch who are attending and
maybe think they're Christiansbut actually aren't.
People who think that they aresaved but aren't saved, and so
(05:16):
he's regularly saying thingslike test yourself, see if
you're in the faith.
Right, if you, you know,continue to audience.
As well as those who would readhis letters throughout time,
there might be people who go tochurch, think they're a
Christian but don't understandthe gospel and so need to
understand.
Oh, I actually do fall short.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
We have this problem a lot and I don't know if it's
really a problem.
I think it's actually a greatthing, but people think they're
members of the church becausethey've been attending here for
like a month or two or longer.
Do you ever have that problemat Eastside?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, you mean think they're like in terms of your
formal membership process?
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, they think they're a full member and a
Christian and all the things.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
And then when you sort of like we have people who
visit one time who come tochurch three times a year and
say that we're their home churchand they're members, and they
really sincerely mean it,because they're coming from
going to church zero times ayear and so we're the one they
go to three times their homechurch.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, so why do you, why do you guys do a membership
process?
Just curious.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Um.
So it comes from uh, hebrews 13, where you know it says obey
your leaders, um, and says thatthey're keeping watch over your
souls, um, as those who give anaccount.
And so there's a reality of umthat implies a covenantal
relationship where you know whoyour leaders are and you have
(06:36):
chosen to submit to them, andyour leaders know who you are
and are, feel the responsibilityfor your soul care.
And so, because of that um,it's important to know the
condition of your flocks, whichthat's what membership process
and membership is for.
Know the condition of yourflocks, know who the people are
that are submitting to yourleadership.
Let them know what submissionlooks like in this local context
(06:58):
, so that you can shepherd themwell.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yeah, and I think that's something so important
that's.
Our same standard with ourchurch is that we have got to
get to a place where we'reunderstanding that we love to
invite anybody can come into ourchurch.
Anybody can come hear thegospel.
We want you to come, no matterwhere you are in life, no matter
what sins you're like activelypursuing.
(07:23):
Yeah, like that's come.
Come and hear the gospel, comeand hear hope, because the only
reason that you're doing that isyou haven't found something
better, and I want to let youknow that there is something way
better.
Now that gets us to where Joelpreached about.
But Mark 10, a guy who thoughthe already had better, but he
was still empty.
He runs up to Jesus.
(07:45):
You may know him as the richyoung ruler.
He runs up to Jesus, bows downkneels before Jesus and says
good teacher, what must I do toinherit eternal life?
Now, if there was ever a layupfor a salvation message, you
would think this would be it.
Boom Romans wrote it right.
Romans wrote it right here Comeon, jesus Doesn't do that.
(08:06):
And and why do you think thatis?
Why do you think when he'sgiven the layup, he doesn't go
straight for?
Oh slam dunk, You're a sinner,I'm going to the cross.
All you gotta do is believe inme.
What do you think he's hittingat here?
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Jesus, I think, is always looking at the heart
behind the question, not justthe question itself.
He's playing chess while he'splaying check Boom, exactly, he
is going okay, like he knowswhat's going on in this guy's
heart and mind, you know, andwants to address that rather
than just the question on thesurface.
And so you know, when he saysgood teacher, his response why
(08:43):
do you call me good?
No one is good except God alone, right?
Speaker 1 (08:46):
In fact, we got a question on that specific one.
Let me read it from our uh uh.
Here it is.
It says from our texting andyou can always text us in at
737-231-0605.
Hi, I have a question aboutthis.
When Jesus says that nobody isgood except for God alone, why
(09:07):
does he say that If he is God?
I'd love clarification.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Great question.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
So I think what I was just explaining I think is a
partial answer to that questionof Jesus is he asks things in
cryptic ways.
Sometimes he asks rhetoricalquestions or he gets behind the
intent of what was asked, likehe doesn't just give like, hey,
here's the answer, becauseusually what's going on in
someone's heart to bring up thatquestion is the real thing that
(09:36):
needs to be shepherded andaddressed.
So I think part of it is Jesuswas he divulged more about
himself to those who trulybelieved, he would refrain from
doing miracles in certain placesbecause of their lack of faith.
But to those who were close tohim, like, you know, his
(09:58):
disciples, after he would teacha parable, he'd go sit them down
and explain the parable to them.
So he would usually he wouldnot just kind of give everyone
he didn't go around to thecrowds always just saying, hey,
I'm God, but he would give umstatements that those who um
trusted him um would understandUm, so that that's one of the
ways that he kind of dealt withpeople.
(10:18):
So I think there's some of thatgoing on here.
And then another part I thinkJesus is, you know, he's drawing
out more from this guy Numberone, saying like he says good
teacher.
And Jesus says why do you callme good?
I think he's addressing youhave a wrong view of what good
is, because the guy likeultimately thinks that he's good
.
I think he's addressing um, uh,you have a wrong view of what
good is Right, um, because theguy like ultimately thinks that
(10:41):
he's good.
He's saying like I kept all thecommandments, I'm good.
He's thinking that Jesus isgooder, maybe yeah, or the you
know Jesus is asking him thisquestion to see is he going to
make a confession?
Is he going to confess Jesus asthe christ and god, right?
He says no one's good but godalone.
And if this guy was, if thisguy responded like, well, yeah,
but that's you right, then he.
(11:02):
That's why I'm calling you goodyou're in yes, exactly.
But the guy doesn't say that hedoesn't go.
Well, yeah, you know, you're um.
Like.
You know, peter.
When he's like you're themessiah, you're the son of god,
you know um.
Uh, he says no one is goodexcept God alone.
You know the commandments.
And the guy's like yeah, I'vedone all those things.
(11:24):
And so the guy, obviously he'snot really recognizing Jesus as
God and he's thinking that he'sgood.
And so what Jesus is doing ishe's drawing out what's going on
in this guy's heart and itself-righteousness, and it's his
idolatry of his wealth andpossessions.
And so I think that's what'sgoing on, is Jesus is kind of
like as a spiritual surgeon.
(11:45):
He's doing spiritual surgery onthe guy's heart and the guy
resists it.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
So here's what I thought was interesting when he
answers Jesus, you know he goes,cause he goes.
Hey, why do you call me good?
No one's good but God alone.
And you know the commandments?
Blah, blah, blah.
And he goes.
Teacher, not good teacher,teacher.
So he downgrades Jesus from God.
Yep Right, all these I've keptfrom my youth.
In other words, I'm bearingfalse witness now.
(12:14):
So at what point?
And then Jesus loves him.
So why not?
This is the part where I gotconfused.
Like you would think, if Jesusloved him he'd be like I love
you enough to tell you the truthabout your situation.
Your riches are preventing youfrom heaven.
(12:35):
You're going to hell, which Ithink he kind of does, but he
doesn't.
He's not like that explicit,but he does tell him exactly the
very thing he needs to do toaddress the heart issue he has
of his pride and of hisarrogance and of his wealth.
That puts him up.
At least, I'm not like thosepeople, I'm gooder.
And then he goes, you know, go,sell all you have, forgive the
poor, and you'll have treasurein heaven.
(12:56):
You'll have eternal life, right, I would assume.
Like you're going to havetreasure waiting for you in
heaven and then come follow meand I'll lead you there.
And I think that's wild, thatwell one.
Obviously he doesn't recognizeas Jesus, I mean Jesus the
Christ.
He recognizes a gooder personmaybe, but he can't conceive of
that.
(13:16):
Giving wealth away is what,ultimately, is going to gain him
more.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yeah, and I don't know.
Just side note about this tooSometimes when you love people,
they walk away sad.
And Jesus you know you thinklike if you tell someone a hard
truth and they walk away sad,sometimes you might doubt
yourself or other people wouldcriticize you.
You should have been moreloving, but you did yeah.
(13:42):
Yeah, like, why did you say why?
You know this person wasseeking an answer, why did you
give them a hard truth?
And you know that's exactlywhat Jesus did, though, and
Jesus says, looking at him, heloved him and said this very
hard thing that made him walkaway, and, you know, jesus cut
to the chase, essentially saidhere here's the one point at
which you know you're unwillingto surrender that was not very
(14:04):
seeker sensitive.
Yeah, it was not at all.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
I don't know if that would have worked.
I think he would have beenchastised by the elders of his
church if he had done right LikeI mean.
Imagine just like, if anypastor like went up to somebody
and said hey, listen hey, whatdo I?
What must I do in HerodTurnalive?
Listen, I need you to selleverything you have.
(14:27):
Give it to our benevolenceministry, then come to my house.
Yeah, like what?
I would probably be fired forthat.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
But we give, we get.
Maybe not exactly like that,but we give.
Maybe not exactly like that,but as pastors we give those
kind of hey, you need to moveout from your girlfriend and you
need to stop sleeping with yourgirlfriend.
Move out, get a place of yourown.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
This challenges me of like I'm not going far enough,
like, hey, you with all yourmoney give it all the poor and
then come move in.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Yeah, because there's times I think there's probably
times where we've done that andthe people have walked away sad
and we feel like, dang, Iscrewed that up.
I should do, I should be moregentle next time when, in
reality, like you, actually didexactly what Jesus did and got
the same result.
And it's because you know,there's also the example of
Jesus, the parable of the manwho finds a treasure sells of
(15:18):
the man who finds the treasuresells everything he has to buy
that land so he can have thattreasure.
There may be another man.
You know that Jesus gave thatexact same instruction to who's
like.
You got it.
Let's go like his disciples,right?
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Yeah, I think recently and it's funny because
you know, when people listen tothis they think I'm talking
about them.
I've had like several, severalpeople come to me talking about
their relationship and I'm like,hey, keep coming to church, but
if you want to be a member thenyou're going to have to not
sleep with your partner.
(15:48):
And they are so at first, justlike how dare you tell me who I
can sleep with and who I can'tsleep with?
And that definitely isoffensive.
I don't feel so bad about thatone, although the money one I
probably would not be.
Maybe this is where I need togrow my faith a little bit.
Okay, so here's one.
(16:09):
This is just, you know, manyyears ago.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Oh, okay, did we answer the question?
I don't know if we need to comeback.
I Did we answer the question?
Speaker 1 (16:14):
I don't know if we need to come back.
I kind of got off track, yeah,yeah.
But I have to tell this onestory Because I did.
A woman one time came up to meand she's like really frustrated
alive and I said, hey, give10,000, I think to the
benevolence or to something,give 10,000 to some.
Maybe it was a fundraiser wewere having at the time and the
(16:38):
problem is you never need God tocome through for you, so give
it away and then see whathappens.
And almost every time I've everdone that, like God has done
incredible things and moved inthat person's heart and okay, I
guess it did that person atfirst, like nothing happened,
like they just got angrier andmore bitter.
And they did give and I waslike, huh, maybe that doesn't
always work.
And then, you know, years afterthey left the church because
that didn't go very well, theycalled me and said, hey, I just
(17:00):
want you to know I'm reallypraying for your church.
And blah, blah, it was reallysweet.
My whole heart's been changed.
I have the Holy Spirit.
That's filled me up, so maybeit was good.
That's awesome.
It's wild.
When you look back in the momentyou're like gosh, did I read
that one wrong?
Because she definitely wentaway sad, and then it was like
you know, almost to the point oflike who was that?
(17:21):
Again, years later, and thenshe was like, hey, that I still
pray for you, I'm grateful forthe church, and the Lord is
still moving in my life and Iwas like I was really encouraged
anyway.
So you're right, maybe be boldis all.
As a pastor, you just neverknow.
Alright, let's get back to thequestion.
The question was why does, whydoes he say that, say that no
(17:47):
one's good but God alone?
If he is God yeah, and I thinkwe answered it it's.
He's doing two things.
One, he's challenging hisperception of what good is,
because he's probably coming toJesus, because he thinks he is
good and he has really goodanswers and he, if there's
anybody that's good enough, it'sJesus, and Jesus isn't good
(18:07):
enough.
He is the definition of good.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yeah, it's like he's saying why do you call me good?
Are you calling me good becauseyou recognize that I am God?
Or are you calling me goodbecause you think good is God?
Or are you calling me goodbecause you think you know good
is you?
Know?
He has this self-righteousversion of goodness, and it was
clear it's the latter.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
And so I think that Jesus uses that skillfully.
The man is exposed, and as he'stalking, he should be able to
hear himself.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
And I think we can learn from this should be able
to hear himself.
And I think we can learn fromthis.
Like our you know, we read,like even the question coming in
.
You know why would you answerin that way, answer a question
with another question, right,and then saying this kind of
like cryptic statement?
But I think there's a lot tolearn from that for us as
pastors, but also just asChristians.
(18:54):
When we're talking to people,you know before we, just as
Christians, when we're talkingto people, um, you know before
we just give here's the answerto your question.
Is there a?
You know?
Can we answer a question with aquestion to draw more out of,
like where they're coming from?
You know, it just takes waylonger, it does.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Although Jesus doesn't see, he just pounds him.
Yeah, he asks one question andthen rips him and he's done.
So maybe it doesn't take alooker.
I've always been a fan of likeI feel like it wasn't an endless
stream of questions.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
He just gets one question.
Let's get to the heart, andthen yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Gosh to be a great question.
Asker, that is the ultimategift.
Maybe we should pray for that.
All right, so he thenchallenges him.
The guy walks away sad.
I love that.
I love your point.
It's okay when people walk awaysad because they reject the
gospel.
The premise here for him is hehas no need and what he needed
(19:46):
to do was have less, not havemore of something, which I
thought was wild.
Because usually, what do I haveto do to inherit eternal life?
You need more of something he'sactually you know to have
eternal life.
You need more of something he'sactually you know to have
eternal life.
You need less of something soyou can see your own sin.
You can't see you are a liarbearing false witness about
yourself and others.
Okay, yeah, then we also wenton to the tax collectors who
(20:09):
could see how much they hadfallen short.
The thing I really enjoyed aboutthis is in Mark 2.14.
It says and as he passed by—andare you familiar with that in
Genesis, as God says to Moses, Iwant you to go hide yourself
behind the rock or whatever,because my glory is about to
pass by.
And then, with Elijah, hideyourself in the cleft of the
(20:32):
rock, because the glory of theLord is about to pass by.
God's revelation, when thatphrase comes up, is he's about
to reveal himself.
That phrase also comes up inMark's gospel.
Whenever he walks, he's aboutto pass them by on the water,
and they think he's a ghost.
And so I thought it'sremarkable that it's the
miraculous that where Godreveals himself here.
(20:53):
But the miraculous also is thata tax collector, the scummiest
of the scum scum, is about tofollow Jesus because Jesus has a
plan for him, which I man thefact that a tax collector could
obey Jesus as boldly as he did.
In fact, I would say that whathe does here is exactly what he
(21:15):
wanted the rich young ruler todo.
He leaves Because at some pointhe's going to have to sell the
house, at some point, all thewealth is going to run out,
because he's now given up hisposition as a Roman tax
collector just to follow thisJewish itinerant preacher.
Right, I think I actually.
(21:36):
You watch the Chosen?
No, oh, you've never watchedthe Chosen.
No, oh, man, their portrayal ofMatthew is hilarious and
awesome, so good.
And when he leaves the taxcollector's booth, it's powerful
and funny.
So yeah, and he goes home andhas a huge party with all these
tax collectors.
And this is where you know andthe Pharisees are frustrated.
(22:01):
It's like doesn't Jesus knowwho he's with?
Doesn't he know what that lookslike to the rest of us who are
out here looking at you on theinside with all the sinners?
We can't help but assume youare sinning too.
What they don't realize also isJesus isn't just good enough,
he is good, and by his presencehe makes all the things around
him holy, as he did.
(22:21):
Things around him holy as hedid.
That was what made when I wasreading through Exodus and then
Leviticus, is the things thatwere holy.
Once it touched something else,it made it holy, and then,
which was sort of wild, likewhatever the I'll have to figure
out which one it is whateverthe priest touched whenever he
was doing some sort of ritual,it would become holy.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Anyway, huh, yeah, I mean the big, usually a big
emphasis in purity and holinessand uncleanness stuff is that
uncleanness spreads but holinessdoes not.
And then, yeah, jesus kind ofreverses that and that his, when
he touches an unclean person,his holiness spreads to them
(23:07):
yeah, yeah, seven days.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
You shall make atonement for the altar and
consecrate it, and the altarshall be most holy.
Whatever touches the altarshall become holy boom and
that's jesus like the embodimentof that exactly.
Isn't that wild.
So I, I, just becauseeverywhere you're right,
everywhere else it says um, it'sgoing to be unclean when it
touches something nasty, but atthe altar, whatever touches the
altar, where the sacrifice ispresented, where the blood is
(23:32):
sprinkled, that becomes cleanand wild.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
That is wild Anyway.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yeah, Jesus lived.
Yeah, I just love that he livedthat out.
And when he goes into the houseof tax collectors and sinners,
he doesn't get corrupted bytheir sin.
Rather, his holiness transformsthem and they become followers
of Christ.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Which is kind of nice , because you would sprinkle the
blood of the animal, and let'ssay you didn't bring the right
kind of animal.
But once it touched the altar,that thing became holy.
Isn't that wild?
I don't think that got you offthe hook as far as presenting
the wrong thing.
However, whatever that thingwas became holy, whatever the
(24:21):
instruments.
Or if the high priest brushedby the altar or whatever, he
would become holy.
It would tarnish the holiest ofthat.
So I thought that was powerful.
Anyway, back to the story of thetax collectors.
So Jesus is with these taxcollectors and by his presence
and by his words and by thepower of his grace, he makes
(24:41):
them clean, which is whatultimately he does with lepers,
but he does also with sickpeople.
He's a great physician, which Ireally appreciate.
This, the physician comes toheal those who are sick, not
those who are well, and I cameto save sinners, not the
righteous and the self-righteousis who he's talking about there
.
I feel like there's a lot ofpeople Christians might be a far
(25:06):
stretch who come to church andthey don't understand what they
need to be saved from.
And that's the part that, whenyou don't understand that you
are that bad, that your grip onmoney, that your grip on money,
your idol of control, revealshow your heart not only takes
(25:30):
pleasure in, finds solace in thethings of this world, when only
the things of heaven shouldsatisfy.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Yeah, man, there was one of my seminary professors
told the story of like someonethat he was trying to minister
to and she was an atheist, andyou know he was talking about
sin and we all fall short.
And she was like I really don'tthink I do.
She was like, honestly, likeI've been married for this many
(25:59):
years, I'm faithful to myhusband, we're good parents, we
take care of our kids I don'tlie, I've never, you know, um, I
don't do anything hurtful orhateful to people.
Like, we try to just livetruthful, moral lives.
And, um, like I don't think I,like I'm, I'm, I'm straight up,
Like I'm a good person, Like Idon't do anything worthy of
(26:21):
judgment.
And um, and he was like but youdon't believe in God?
And she's like no, and uh, shewas like I don't need God, I
don't need to believe in a God,I can just be a good person.
And she was like what sin do Ineed to repent from?
Tell me what, what's somethingthat I do that I need to repent
from?
Uh, you know, and you know,goes through the list of all the
(27:00):
moral, righteous things.
And he was like so you know,you have kids right?
And she's like, yeah, and hewas like imagine, you know, if
your kids that you know, youprovide the house for them to
live in, you provide the foodthat they eat, you provide
instruction for them, love forthem, everything that they need,
pretended you did not exist.
And she was like, well, thatwould be obviously unacceptable
and absurd, you know.
And he was like that is whatyou do with God, that's what you
need to repent from.
He gives you everything, lovesyou, takes care of you, provides
for you, you know, and youpretend he doesn't exist.
And she converted, repented andbecame a Christian.
(27:21):
Wow, Right there.
And she has never thought of itthat way before.
And so, like, I think, evenlike the rich young ruler who's
like what do I need to repentfrom?
I'm a good person, I don't kill, I don't cheat, I don't lie, I
don't do any of this bad stuff.
And you know, like there'sthere's this false sense of like
self-righteousness that we havethat we're good enough, um, or
that we have that we're goodenough, or that we don't need
(27:42):
God, or you know what I mean?
Yeah, so like, even those wholive a good life, good moral,
righteous people, fall short.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Gosh.
It reminds me of Stuart Smalleyfrom Saturday Night Live back
in the 90s.
Stuart Smalley I'm good enough,smart enough, and gosh, darn it
.
People like me, and that washis whole thing.
There you go, that's it, and Ithink that that's the spiel that
people get.
Yeah, okay, anyway.
So I I think that sort of notsolves that question, but man, I
(28:12):
I really feel like that's.
The struggle is is there's twotypes of people.
One's one person says that I'mnot that bad, and the other
person who feels like they're sobad, like Joel shared about his
drug addiction and hisalcoholism.
And then I think there arepeople in the audience who go
(28:35):
I'm so far gone, and I thinkthat's how the tax collectors
felt until Jesus said no, I camehere for you, I love you, and
so if you could know, if you'rethe that far gone person, that
Jesus isn't just dying the crossas some great example of like.
You know, you need punishmentin your life, you need to be
(28:56):
punished more, but as I'm goingto take the punishment for you
because I love you that much,it's a huge encouragement and it
makes you see how valuable youreally are, not because of
anything you've done, butbecause you're a child of God?
Yeah, all right.
Well, that was awesome.
I think the Romans Road, inparticular, for me, has always
been exciting.
(29:16):
I'm excited to preach throughit the next several weeks here
and excited for people to get toreally wrap their head around
that.
So, uh, hey, thanks so much forwatching.
Uh, we're going to wrap this up.
We're going to talk.
We talk faith, culture,everything from our house to
yours.
Have an awesome week.
and welcome back to pastor plex podcast.
I am your host, pastor plec.
Joining me is pastor hollandgreg.
Welcome back, holland, hello.
Hey, we're talking about thesermon from sunday, which was on
the romans road, and if you'renot familiar with the romans
road, that is a way of sharingthe gospel, and you know the
verses for the romans road, I doromans 3.23, romans 6.23,
(00:27):
romans 5.8, romans 10.9.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yeah, does it bother you that it goes out of order?
Oh, does it 3, 6, 5, 10.
Yeah, no, it's kind of likeleapfrog If you see it like that
.
Oh, I like that.
It's fine that way.
Okay, because the 323, 623, yougot the 23s connection.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Yeah, and it's a doubling.
Yeah, the doubling of the 5 tothe 10, the doubling of 3 to 6.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah, there's a lot of ways that I can be okay with
it going out of order.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Now, have you ever used the Roman's road to lead
somebody to Christ?
I have, okay, so tell me, like,at the end of it, what do you
say at the end after they go?
They believe it.
What do you do?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
After they believe it , if they like, confess.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
If they go because do you have, give me your, do you
go?
Do you have them read the verseor do you read it to them?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Oh, it depends, you know, if we're like on the
street doing evangelism, it'sone thing If I'm.
Recently I sat down insomeone's apartment big family
who all wanted to learn how tobe a Christian.
Everyone got Bibles out and wewent through the Romans road.
I had each of them read a verseand we talked about it, and so
it depends on the situation.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Do you remember?
In prison ministry, you go allright, are you a sinner?
Are you a sinner?
Yes, Are you a sinner.
And is that the way you did itwith the 10 kids?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Not exactly Similar, though.
The same thing of just askingdo you believe that you're a
sinner?
Not just pointing at themdirectly, but the same idea of
having each person respond Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
And after they say yes, that they believe that
Jesus rose from the dead.
What do you do then?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
I encourage them to pray and repent from their sin.
Pray and then-.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Do you lead them through a prayer or do you just
kind of like say, go for it?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Lead them through a prayer.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yeah, yeah, I do too.
I know there's been a lot ofcriticism of the sinner's prayer
, but I'm kind of a fan.
I am too Like what else do youdo?
I mean, now, here's the wayI've changed it or modified it.
So there's one verse that Ilike to add in which I feel
works it's not in the Romans,but it helps out the whole
(02:40):
process of praying In Luke 11,13, it says how much more will
the Father in heaven give theHoly Spirit to anyone who asks
Him?
So I say, hey, would you like toask for the Holy Spirit to come
into your life?
And so they're like sure.
And I go, okay, well, are you asinner?
They're like, yeah, do you wantforgiveness?
Yeah, do you believe Jesus diedon the cross for your sins?
(03:01):
Yes, believe he rose from thedead?
Yes, do you want to ask theHoly Spirit to come into your
life?
Yes, and then I essentiallypray that because I feel like
that is a part.
You know, you've heard peoplelike praying Jesus into your
heart, and I'm not thumbs downon that.
I just want to make sure thatthey understand the Holy Spirit
is what dwells them.
You know you're joining Jesuson in oneness, so does it come
(03:27):
to your heart.
Sure, yeah, yeah.
So I know that's got a lot ofcriticism over the years, but I
still think it works.
I think it works too.
Yeah, great, all right.
So let's talk about Joel.
Preached and he shared hisstory, which is pretty crazy.
Preached and he shared hisstory, which is pretty crazy.
What got his attention was hiscar flipped over four times on
(03:48):
the interstate heading toMississippi from Austin, texas.
And that's when he said youknow what?
I think I've fallen short Timeto believe in God, time to
believe in Jesus.
And he said his lifetransformed from that point.
Now, I know, not everybody has acar-flipping experience, but we
can all recognize that we fallshort and that's the whole point
(04:09):
of Romans 3.23, for all havesinned and fall short of the
glory of God.
The whole point of that verseis to remind us all that nobody
comes as a Christian, as ifthey've already arrived.
And the thing about Romans is,I think he's running to the
(04:29):
church in Rome, so he's assumingeverybody already there is a
Christian.
But even as a Christian, youlook back, it's not like anyone
came believing, not that anyonecame redeemed, that they had to
go through some metamorphosis intheir spiritual life where
they're recognized they weredead in sin to be alive forever.
And I think some people havethey struggle with that.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah, yeah.
I also think Paul is mindful ofthe fact that there's going to
be unregenerate people in everychurch who are attending and
maybe think they're Christiansbut actually aren't.
People who think that they aresaved but aren't saved, and so
(05:16):
he's regularly saying thingslike test yourself, see if
you're in the faith.
Right, if you, you know,continue to audience.
As well as those who would readhis letters throughout time,
there might be people who go tochurch, think they're a
Christian but don't understandthe gospel and so need to
understand.
Oh, I actually do fall short.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
We have this problem a lot and I don't know if it's
really a problem.
I think it's actually a greatthing, but people think they're
members of the church becausethey've been attending here for
like a month or two or longer.
Do you ever have that problemat Eastside?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, you mean think they're like in terms of your
formal membership process?
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, they think they're a full member and a
Christian and all the things.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
And then when you sort of like we have people who
visit one time who come tochurch three times a year and
say that we're their home churchand they're members, and they
really sincerely mean it,because they're coming from
going to church zero times ayear and so we're the one they
go to three times their homechurch.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, so why do you, why do you guys do a membership
process?
Just curious.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Um.
So it comes from uh, hebrews 13, where you know it says obey
your leaders, um, and says thatthey're keeping watch over your
souls, um, as those who give anaccount.
And so there's a reality of umthat implies a covenantal
relationship where you know whoyour leaders are and you have
(06:36):
chosen to submit to them, andyour leaders know who you are
and are, feel the responsibilityfor your soul care.
And so, because of that um,it's important to know the
condition of your flocks, whichthat's what membership process
and membership is for.
Know the condition of yourflocks, know who the people are
that are submitting to yourleadership.
Let them know what submissionlooks like in this local context
(06:58):
, so that you can shepherd themwell.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yeah, and I think that's something so important
that's.
Our same standard with ourchurch is that we have got to
get to a place where we'reunderstanding that we love to
invite anybody can come into ourchurch.
Anybody can come hear thegospel.
We want you to come, no matterwhere you are in life, no matter
what sins you're like activelypursuing.
(07:23):
Yeah, like that's come.
Come and hear the gospel, comeand hear hope, because the only
reason that you're doing that isyou haven't found something
better, and I want to let youknow that there is something way
better.
Now that gets us to where Joelpreached about.
But Mark 10, a guy who thoughthe already had better, but he
was still empty.
He runs up to Jesus.
(07:45):
You may know him as the richyoung ruler.
He runs up to Jesus, bows downkneels before Jesus and says
good teacher, what must I do toinherit eternal life?
Now, if there was ever a layupfor a salvation message, you
would think this would be it.
Boom Romans wrote it right.
Romans wrote it right here Comeon, jesus Doesn't do that.
(08:06):
And and why do you think thatis?
Why do you think when he'sgiven the layup, he doesn't go
straight for?
Oh slam dunk, You're a sinner,I'm going to the cross.
All you gotta do is believe inme.
What do you think he's hittingat here?
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Jesus, I think, is always looking at the heart
behind the question, not justthe question itself.
He's playing chess while he'splaying check Boom, exactly, he
is going okay, like he knowswhat's going on in this guy's
heart and mind, you know, andwants to address that rather
than just the question on thesurface.
And so you know, when he saysgood teacher, his response why
(08:43):
do you call me good?
No one is good except God alone, right?
Speaker 1 (08:46):
In fact, we got a question on that specific one.
Let me read it from our uh uh.
Here it is.
It says from our texting andyou can always text us in at
737-231-0605.
Hi, I have a question aboutthis.
When Jesus says that nobody isgood except for God alone, why
(09:07):
does he say that If he is God?
I'd love clarification.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Great question.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
So I think what I was just explaining I think is a
partial answer to that questionof Jesus is he asks things in
cryptic ways.
Sometimes he asks rhetoricalquestions or he gets behind the
intent of what was asked, likehe doesn't just give like, hey,
here's the answer, becauseusually what's going on in
someone's heart to bring up thatquestion is the real thing that
(09:36):
needs to be shepherded andaddressed.
So I think part of it is Jesuswas he divulged more about
himself to those who trulybelieved, he would refrain from
doing miracles in certain placesbecause of their lack of faith.
But to those who were close tohim, like, you know, his
(09:58):
disciples, after he would teacha parable, he'd go sit them down
and explain the parable to them.
So he would usually he wouldnot just kind of give everyone
he didn't go around to thecrowds always just saying, hey,
I'm God, but he would give umstatements that those who um
trusted him um would understandUm, so that that's one of the
ways that he kind of dealt withpeople.
(10:18):
So I think there's some of thatgoing on here.
And then another part I thinkJesus is, you know, he's drawing
out more from this guy Numberone, saying like he says good
teacher.
And Jesus says why do you callme good?
I think he's addressing youhave a wrong view of what good
is, because the guy likeultimately thinks that he's good
.
I think he's addressing um, uh,you have a wrong view of what
good is Right, um, because theguy like ultimately thinks that
(10:41):
he's good.
He's saying like I kept all thecommandments, I'm good.
He's thinking that Jesus isgooder, maybe yeah, or the you
know Jesus is asking him thisquestion to see is he going to
make a confession?
Is he going to confess Jesus asthe christ and god, right?
He says no one's good but godalone.
And if this guy was, if thisguy responded like, well, yeah,
but that's you right, then he.
(11:02):
That's why I'm calling you goodyou're in yes, exactly.
But the guy doesn't say that hedoesn't go.
Well, yeah, you know, you're um.
Like.
You know, peter.
When he's like you're themessiah, you're the son of god,
you know um.
Uh, he says no one is goodexcept God alone.
You know the commandments.
And the guy's like yeah, I'vedone all those things.
(11:24):
And so the guy, obviously he'snot really recognizing Jesus as
God and he's thinking that he'sgood.
And so what Jesus is doing ishe's drawing out what's going on
in this guy's heart and itself-righteousness, and it's his
idolatry of his wealth andpossessions.
And so I think that's what'sgoing on, is Jesus is kind of
like as a spiritual surgeon.
(11:45):
He's doing spiritual surgery onthe guy's heart and the guy
resists it.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
So here's what I thought was interesting when he
answers Jesus, you know he goes,cause he goes.
Hey, why do you call me good?
No one's good but God alone.
And you know the commandments?
Blah, blah, blah.
And he goes.
Teacher, not good teacher,teacher.
So he downgrades Jesus from God.
Yep Right, all these I've keptfrom my youth.
In other words, I'm bearingfalse witness now.
(12:14):
So at what point?
And then Jesus loves him.
So why not?
This is the part where I gotconfused.
Like you would think, if Jesusloved him he'd be like I love
you enough to tell you the truthabout your situation.
Your riches are preventing youfrom heaven.
(12:35):
You're going to hell, which Ithink he kind of does, but he
doesn't.
He's not like that explicit,but he does tell him exactly the
very thing he needs to do toaddress the heart issue he has
of his pride and of hisarrogance and of his wealth.
That puts him up.
At least, I'm not like thosepeople, I'm gooder.
And then he goes, you know, go,sell all you have, forgive the
poor, and you'll have treasurein heaven.
(12:56):
You'll have eternal life, right, I would assume.
Like you're going to havetreasure waiting for you in
heaven and then come follow meand I'll lead you there.
And I think that's wild, thatwell one.
Obviously he doesn't recognizeas Jesus, I mean Jesus the
Christ.
He recognizes a gooder personmaybe, but he can't conceive of
that.
(13:16):
Giving wealth away is what,ultimately, is going to gain him
more.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yeah, and I don't know.
Just side note about this tooSometimes when you love people,
they walk away sad.
And Jesus you know you thinklike if you tell someone a hard
truth and they walk away sad,sometimes you might doubt
yourself or other people wouldcriticize you.
You should have been moreloving, but you did yeah.
(13:42):
Yeah, like, why did you say why?
You know this person wasseeking an answer, why did you
give them a hard truth?
And you know that's exactlywhat Jesus did, though, and
Jesus says, looking at him, heloved him and said this very
hard thing that made him walkaway, and, you know, jesus cut
to the chase, essentially saidhere here's the one point at
which you know you're unwillingto surrender that was not very
(14:04):
seeker sensitive.
Yeah, it was not at all.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
I don't know if that would have worked.
I think he would have beenchastised by the elders of his
church if he had done right LikeI mean.
Imagine just like, if anypastor like went up to somebody
and said hey, listen hey, whatdo I?
What must I do in HerodTurnalive?
Listen, I need you to selleverything you have.
(14:27):
Give it to our benevolenceministry, then come to my house.
Yeah, like what?
I would probably be fired forthat.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
But we give, we get.
Maybe not exactly like that,but we give.
Maybe not exactly like that,but as pastors we give those
kind of hey, you need to moveout from your girlfriend and you
need to stop sleeping with yourgirlfriend.
Move out, get a place of yourown.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
This challenges me of like I'm not going far enough,
like, hey, you with all yourmoney give it all the poor and
then come move in.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Yeah, because there's times I think there's probably
times where we've done that andthe people have walked away sad
and we feel like, dang, Iscrewed that up.
I should do, I should be moregentle next time when, in
reality, like you, actually didexactly what Jesus did and got
the same result.
And it's because you know,there's also the example of
Jesus, the parable of the manwho finds a treasure sells of
(15:18):
the man who finds the treasuresells everything he has to buy
that land so he can have thattreasure.
There may be another man.
You know that Jesus gave thatexact same instruction to who's
like.
You got it.
Let's go like his disciples,right?
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Yeah, I think recently and it's funny because
you know, when people listen tothis they think I'm talking
about them.
I've had like several, severalpeople come to me talking about
their relationship and I'm like,hey, keep coming to church, but
if you want to be a member thenyou're going to have to not
sleep with your partner.
(15:48):
And they are so at first, justlike how dare you tell me who I
can sleep with and who I can'tsleep with?
And that definitely isoffensive.
I don't feel so bad about thatone, although the money one I
probably would not be.
Maybe this is where I need togrow my faith a little bit.
Okay, so here's one.
(16:09):
This is just, you know, manyyears ago.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Oh, okay, did we answer the question?
I don't know if we need to comeback.
I Did we answer the question?
Speaker 1 (16:14):
I don't know if we need to come back.
I kind of got off track, yeah,yeah.
But I have to tell this onestory Because I did.
A woman one time came up to meand she's like really frustrated
alive and I said, hey, give10,000, I think to the
benevolence or to something,give 10,000 to some.
Maybe it was a fundraiser wewere having at the time and the
(16:38):
problem is you never need God tocome through for you, so give
it away and then see whathappens.
And almost every time I've everdone that, like God has done
incredible things and moved inthat person's heart and okay, I
guess it did that person atfirst, like nothing happened,
like they just got angrier andmore bitter.
And they did give and I waslike, huh, maybe that doesn't
always work.
And then, you know, years afterthey left the church because
that didn't go very well, theycalled me and said, hey, I just
(17:00):
want you to know I'm reallypraying for your church.
And blah, blah, it was reallysweet.
My whole heart's been changed.
I have the Holy Spirit.
That's filled me up, so maybeit was good.
That's awesome.
It's wild.
When you look back in the momentyou're like gosh, did I read
that one wrong?
Because she definitely wentaway sad, and then it was like
you know, almost to the point oflike who was that?
(17:21):
Again, years later, and thenshe was like, hey, that I still
pray for you, I'm grateful forthe church, and the Lord is
still moving in my life and Iwas like I was really encouraged
anyway.
So you're right, maybe be boldis all.
As a pastor, you just neverknow.
Alright, let's get back to thequestion.
The question was why does, whydoes he say that, say that no
(17:47):
one's good but God alone?
If he is God yeah, and I thinkwe answered it it's.
He's doing two things.
One, he's challenging hisperception of what good is,
because he's probably coming toJesus, because he thinks he is
good and he has really goodanswers and he, if there's
anybody that's good enough, it'sJesus, and Jesus isn't good
(18:07):
enough.
He is the definition of good.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yeah, it's like he's saying why do you call me good?
Are you calling me good becauseyou recognize that I am God?
Or are you calling me goodbecause you think good is God?
Or are you calling me goodbecause you think you know good
is you?
Know?
He has this self-righteousversion of goodness, and it was
clear it's the latter.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
And so I think that Jesus uses that skillfully.
The man is exposed, and as he'stalking, he should be able to
hear himself.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
And I think we can learn from this should be able
to hear himself.
And I think we can learn fromthis.
Like our you know, we read,like even the question coming in
.
You know why would you answerin that way, answer a question
with another question, right,and then saying this kind of
like cryptic statement?
But I think there's a lot tolearn from that for us as
pastors, but also just asChristians.
(18:54):
When we're talking to people,you know before we, just as
Christians, when we're talkingto people, um, you know before
we just give here's the answerto your question.
Is there a?
You know?
Can we answer a question with aquestion to draw more out of,
like where they're coming from?
You know, it just takes waylonger, it does.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Although Jesus doesn't see, he just pounds him.
Yeah, he asks one question andthen rips him and he's done.
So maybe it doesn't take alooker.
I've always been a fan of likeI feel like it wasn't an endless
stream of questions.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
He just gets one question.
Let's get to the heart, andthen yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Gosh to be a great question.
Asker, that is the ultimategift.
Maybe we should pray for that.
All right, so he thenchallenges him.
The guy walks away sad.
I love that.
I love your point.
It's okay when people walk awaysad because they reject the
gospel.
The premise here for him is hehas no need and what he needed
(19:46):
to do was have less, not havemore of something, which I
thought was wild.
Because usually, what do I haveto do to inherit eternal life?
You need more of something he'sactually you know to have
eternal life.
You need more of something he'sactually you know to have
eternal life.
You need less of something soyou can see your own sin.
You can't see you are a liarbearing false witness about
yourself and others.
Okay, yeah, then we also wenton to the tax collectors who
(20:09):
could see how much they hadfallen short.
The thing I really enjoyed aboutthis is in Mark 2.14.
It says and as he passed by—andare you familiar with that in
Genesis, as God says to Moses, Iwant you to go hide yourself
behind the rock or whatever,because my glory is about to
pass by.
And then, with Elijah, hideyourself in the cleft of the
(20:32):
rock, because the glory of theLord is about to pass by.
God's revelation, when thatphrase comes up, is he's about
to reveal himself.
That phrase also comes up inMark's gospel.
Whenever he walks, he's aboutto pass them by on the water,
and they think he's a ghost.
And so I thought it'sremarkable that it's the
miraculous that where Godreveals himself here.
(20:53):
But the miraculous also is thata tax collector, the scummiest
of the scum scum, is about tofollow Jesus because Jesus has a
plan for him, which I man thefact that a tax collector could
obey Jesus as boldly as he did.
In fact, I would say that whathe does here is exactly what he
(21:15):
wanted the rich young ruler todo.
He leaves Because at some pointhe's going to have to sell the
house, at some point, all thewealth is going to run out,
because he's now given up hisposition as a Roman tax
collector just to follow thisJewish itinerant preacher.
Right, I think I actually.
(21:36):
You watch the Chosen?
No, oh, you've never watchedthe Chosen.
No, oh, man, their portrayal ofMatthew is hilarious and
awesome, so good.
And when he leaves the taxcollector's booth, it's powerful
and funny.
So yeah, and he goes home andhas a huge party with all these
tax collectors.
And this is where you know andthe Pharisees are frustrated.
(22:01):
It's like doesn't Jesus knowwho he's with?
Doesn't he know what that lookslike to the rest of us who are
out here looking at you on theinside with all the sinners?
We can't help but assume youare sinning too.
What they don't realize also isJesus isn't just good enough,
he is good, and by his presencehe makes all the things around
him holy, as he did.
(22:21):
Things around him holy as hedid.
That was what made when I wasreading through Exodus and then
Leviticus, is the things thatwere holy.
Once it touched something else,it made it holy, and then,
which was sort of wild, likewhatever the I'll have to figure
out which one it is whateverthe priest touched whenever he
was doing some sort of ritual,it would become holy.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Anyway, huh, yeah, I mean the big, usually a big
emphasis in purity and holinessand uncleanness stuff is that
uncleanness spreads but holinessdoes not.
And then, yeah, jesus kind ofreverses that and that his, when
he touches an unclean person,his holiness spreads to them
(23:07):
yeah, yeah, seven days.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
You shall make atonement for the altar and
consecrate it, and the altarshall be most holy.
Whatever touches the altarshall become holy boom and
that's jesus like the embodimentof that exactly.
Isn't that wild.
So I, I, just becauseeverywhere you're right,
everywhere else it says um, it'sgoing to be unclean when it
touches something nasty, but atthe altar, whatever touches the
altar, where the sacrifice ispresented, where the blood is
(23:32):
sprinkled, that becomes cleanand wild.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
That is wild Anyway.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yeah, Jesus lived.
Yeah, I just love that he livedthat out.
And when he goes into the houseof tax collectors and sinners,
he doesn't get corrupted bytheir sin.
Rather, his holiness transformsthem and they become followers
of Christ.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Which is kind of nice , because you would sprinkle the
blood of the animal, and let'ssay you didn't bring the right
kind of animal.
But once it touched the altar,that thing became holy.
Isn't that wild?
I don't think that got you offthe hook as far as presenting
the wrong thing.
However, whatever that thingwas became holy, whatever the
(24:21):
instruments.
Or if the high priest brushedby the altar or whatever, he
would become holy.
It would tarnish the holiest ofthat.
So I thought that was powerful.
Anyway, back to the story of thetax collectors.
So Jesus is with these taxcollectors and by his presence
and by his words and by thepower of his grace, he makes
(24:41):
them clean, which is whatultimately he does with lepers,
but he does also with sickpeople.
He's a great physician, which Ireally appreciate.
This, the physician comes toheal those who are sick, not
those who are well, and I cameto save sinners, not the
righteous and the self-righteousis who he's talking about there
.
I feel like there's a lot ofpeople Christians might be a far
(25:06):
stretch who come to church andthey don't understand what they
need to be saved from.
And that's the part that, whenyou don't understand that you
are that bad, that your grip onmoney, that your grip on money,
your idol of control, revealshow your heart not only takes
(25:30):
pleasure in, finds solace in thethings of this world, when only
the things of heaven shouldsatisfy.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Yeah, man, there was one of my seminary professors
told the story of like someonethat he was trying to minister
to and she was an atheist, andyou know he was talking about
sin and we all fall short.
And she was like I really don'tthink I do.
She was like, honestly, likeI've been married for this many
(25:59):
years, I'm faithful to myhusband, we're good parents, we
take care of our kids I don'tlie, I've never, you know, um, I
don't do anything hurtful orhateful to people.
Like, we try to just livetruthful, moral lives.
And, um, like I don't think I,like I'm, I'm, I'm straight up,
Like I'm a good person, Like Idon't do anything worthy of
(26:21):
judgment.
And um, and he was like but youdon't believe in God?
And she's like no, and uh, shewas like I don't need God, I
don't need to believe in a God,I can just be a good person.
And she was like what sin do Ineed to repent from?
Tell me what, what's somethingthat I do that I need to repent
from?
Uh, you know, and you know,goes through the list of all the
(27:00):
moral, righteous things.
And he was like so you know,you have kids right?
And she's like, yeah, and hewas like imagine, you know, if
your kids that you know, youprovide the house for them to
live in, you provide the foodthat they eat, you provide
instruction for them, love forthem, everything that they need,
pretended you did not exist.
And she was like, well, thatwould be obviously unacceptable
and absurd, you know.
And he was like that is whatyou do with God, that's what you
need to repent from.
He gives you everything, lovesyou, takes care of you, provides
for you, you know, and youpretend he doesn't exist.
And she converted, repented andbecame a Christian.
(27:21):
Wow, Right there.
And she has never thought of itthat way before.
And so, like, I think, evenlike the rich young ruler who's
like what do I need to repentfrom?
I'm a good person, I don't kill, I don't cheat, I don't lie, I
don't do any of this bad stuff.
And you know, like there'sthere's this false sense of like
self-righteousness that we havethat we're good enough, um, or
that we have that we're goodenough, or that we don't need
(27:42):
God, or you know what I mean?
Yeah, so like, even those wholive a good life, good moral,
righteous people, fall short.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Gosh.
It reminds me of Stuart Smalleyfrom Saturday Night Live back
in the 90s.
Stuart Smalley I'm good enough,smart enough, and gosh, darn it
.
People like me, and that washis whole thing.
There you go, that's it, and Ithink that that's the spiel that
people get.
Yeah, okay, anyway.
So I I think that sort of notsolves that question, but man, I
(28:12):
I really feel like that's.
The struggle is is there's twotypes of people.
One's one person says that I'mnot that bad, and the other
person who feels like they're sobad, like Joel shared about his
drug addiction and hisalcoholism.
And then I think there arepeople in the audience who go
(28:35):
I'm so far gone, and I thinkthat's how the tax collectors
felt until Jesus said no, I camehere for you, I love you, and
so if you could know, if you'rethe that far gone person, that
Jesus isn't just dying the crossas some great example of like.
You know, you need punishmentin your life, you need to be
(28:56):
punished more, but as I'm goingto take the punishment for you
because I love you that much,it's a huge encouragement and it
makes you see how valuable youreally are, not because of
anything you've done, butbecause you're a child of God?
Yeah, all right.
Well, that was awesome.
I think the Romans Road, inparticular, for me, has always
been exciting.
(29:16):
I'm excited to preach throughit the next several weeks here
and excited for people to get toreally wrap their head around
that.
So, uh, hey, thanks so much forwatching.
Uh, we're going to wrap this up.
We're going to talk.
We talk faith, culture,everything from our house to
yours.
Have an awesome week.
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