Navigating Finances with Faith: An Interview with Pastor Scott LaPierre
In this episode of the Pastors & Money Podcast, Joy Suzanne Hunt interviews Scott LaPierre, to tackle an important question: is money a spiritual matter? Scott is the teaching pastor of Woodland Christian Church, author, and conference speaker. Scott shares his journey from being an army officer and school teacher to becoming a pastor and financial coach. He discusses the impact of his brother's tragic death on his faith, his family's financial practices, and the biblical principles that guide their finances. Scott also delves into the challenges he faced in reconciling different financial perspectives in his marriage, the process of paying off consumer debt, and the importance of planning and budgeting. He provides valuable insights for pastors counseling couples with financial issues and offers practical advice for pastors looking to manage their finances.
00:00 Introduction to the Pastors & Money Podcast
00:36 Meet Pastor Scott LaPierre
01:02 Scott's Ministry Journey
03:36 Family and Financial Philosophy
06:20 Paying Off Consumer Debt
15:06 Financial Counseling and Advice
21:57 Spirituality and Finances
26:10 Encouragement for Pastors
28:11 Conclusion and Resources
Resources:
Your Finances God's Way by Scott LaPierre
Total Money Makeover by Dave Ramsey
Seven Biblical Insights for Marriage - free download at ScottLaPierre.org
Transcript:
Introduction
Joy Hunt: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Pastors & Money Podcast. I'm Joy Suzanne Hunt, pastor, and financial coach, bringing you conversations about personal finance, church finance, and how we disciple our churches in finance and stewardship. You can find the episode show notes and more at pastorsandmoney.com. And here's the show.
Joy Hunt: Scott LaPierre is the teaching pastor of Woodland Christian Church in Woodland, Washington, an author, and a conference speaker. God has blessed Scott and his wife, Katie, with 10 children and an 11th on the way. Scott is also a former school teacher and army officer.
And you can learn more about Pastor Scott at his website, www.scottlapierre.org. Well, Scott, welcome to the podcast.
Scott LaPierre: Thanks Joy, [00:01:00] glad to be here, I appreciate you having me on.
Scott's Ministry Journey
Joy Hunt: Ah, so why don't we just get started. If you can, share a little bit about your ministry journey and how you got started in ministry.
Scott LaPierre: Sure. Okay. So I wasn't raised in a Christian home, and I was an army officer after college. I went through ROTC, and then after I got out of the military, I started teaching elementary school, my brother died of a drug overdose, which was a shock to most of our family. He didn't look like a drug addict.
He'd enlisted in the military. So we kind of had this in common when I was an officer. He's enlisted, but he got addicted to pain pills. And so when he overdosed, I was teaching elementary school at this time, and some of my fellow teachers were Christians, and they invited me to their church.
And they said, Hey, you should come talk to our pastor. He lost his brother when he was about your age and you could talk to him. And I was struggling. So I went to this church, with no intention of being saved or born again. Those weren't even terms that I knew. And I went there and I had [00:02:00] grown up in the Catholic church.
So I was kind of under the impression that people can't understand the Bible. You know, we need to talk to a priest or the Pope if we want to understand it. So I go to this church and they gave me a Bible because I didn't even bring one with me, and the pastor read a verse, explained it, read a verse, explained it, and I, it was a life-changing moment for me, because I realized I can understand God's word, and I believed he was speaking to me through it, and I heard the gospel soon after that,
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Joy Hunt (00:11):
Welcome to the Pastors & Money Podcast.
I'm Joy Suzanne Hunt, pastor and financialcoach, bringing you conversations
about personal finance, church financeand how we disciple our churches in
the areas of finance and stewardship.
You can find the episode show notes,and more at pastorsandmoney.com.
And here's the show.
(00:36):
Scott LaPierre is the teachingpastor of Woodland Christian
Church in Woodland, Washington, anauthor and a conference speaker.
God has blessed Scott and his wife, Katie,with 10 children and an 11th on the way.
And Scott is a former schoolteacher and army officer.
And you can learn more aboutPastor Scott at his website, www.
scottlapierre.
(00:56):
org.
Well, Scott, welcome to the podcast.
Scott LaPierre (00:59):
Thanks Joy, glad to be here, I appreciate you having me on.
Joy Hunt (01:02):
Ah, so why don't we just get started by, if you can share a
little bit about your ministry journeyand how you got started in ministry.
Scott LaPierre (01:10):
Sure.
Okay.
So I wasn't raised in a Christian home,and I was an army officer after college.
I went through ROTC, and then afterI got out of the military, I started
teaching elementary school, and mybrother died of a drug overdose, which
was a shock to most of our family.
He didn't look like a drug addict.
He'd actually enlisted in the military.
(01:31):
So we kind of had this incommon where I was an officer.
He's enlisted, but he gotaddicted to pain pills.
And so when he overdosed, I was teachingelementary school at this time, and some
of my fellow teachers were Christians,and they invited me to their church.
And they said, Hey, you shouldcome talk to our pastor.
He lost his brother when he was aboutyour age and you could talk to him.
And I was struggling.
(01:51):
So I went to this church, no intentionof being saved or born again.
Those weren't even terms that I knew.
And I went there and I hadgrown up in the Catholic church.
So I was kind of under the impression thatpeople can't really understand the Bible.
You know, we need to talk to a priestor the Pope if we want to understand it.
So I go to this church and they gave mea Bible, because I didn't even bring one
with me, and the pastor read a verse,explained it, read a verse, explained
(02:15):
it, and I, it was a life changingmoment for me, because I realized I can
understand God's word, and I believedhe was speaking to me through it, and
I heard the gospel soon after that, andit bore witness that we're justified or
declared righteous by grace through faith.
And then I thought I was going to teachand coach the rest of my life because
I enjoyed it so much, but I foundmy passion for ministry increasing,
(02:36):
and I really wanted to tell peopleto open their Bibles versus telling
students to open their math books.
And so then God opened a doorfor me to go into ministry
part time as a youth pastor.
There was a local
church that was, wanted to hire a pastor.
A youth pastor, but couldonly do so part time.
So it's hard to get someone to fly acrossthe country for a part time position.
And so I applied and they hiredme, the church grew, and then they
(02:59):
brought me on full time there.
And that was in California.
But really, Joy, I don't thinkI'm a very good youth pastor.
And it's like my wife, I guess if you'regoing to be a good youth pastor, you
know, you got to want to stay up allnight and play video games and eat worms.
And my wife and I just arenot a very silly couple.
Joy Hunt (03:15):
So that's a very special gift, isn't it?
Scott LaPierre (03:17):
Yeah, that's a good way to say it.
Exactly, Joy.
And so my senior pastor, to hiscredit, knew I wanted to preach and,
minister to adults, and so he mentoredme and then we came to Washington in
2010 for the teaching pastor positionhere, and we've been here since then.
And we have a lot of kids.
(03:39):
I mean, we're going to be talkingabout finances and I think that's
kind of an important detail because.
Many people might think that, youknow, you can't afford lots of
kids or you've got to have a lotof money to have a lot of kids.
And that's not the case at all.
And I think just to be clear, Iwouldn't say we have a lot of kids
because we want to have a lot of kids.
I mean, we're thankful to have the kids wehave, but that wasn't like our conviction.
(04:01):
It wasn't like, let's get marriedand have as many kids as we can have.
Instead.
It was like, let's just getmarried and let God be in charge
of this area of our lives.
And it's not a commentary onwhat anyone else has to do.
That was just our conviction.
And, you know, it could have beenthree kids or seven kids or, you
know, it's 10 with an 11th on the way.
We just wanted to get to theend of our lives and feel like
God's fingerprints were on our family.
(04:22):
And so we left it up to him and,you know, people are surprised.
They're like, I can't believeyou have, you know, you're
expecting your 11th child.
And I'm like, that makes two of us.
I can't believe we'reexpecting our 11th child.
So we've always been single income.
My wife's always stayed home.
With our kids and homeschooled wetried a Christian school recently,
and it didn't work super wellfor us just because the distance.
(04:42):
I guess one of the things I'd say,just knowing the topic of this
conversation, I published a bookcalled your finances God's way.
And when, if you ever want a publisherto publish one of your books, they're
kind of the, one of the main questionsthey're going to want to know is
What separates your book from everyother book on this topic, right?
Nobody's really writing booksthat haven't been written.
So you want to, especially if you wantto write a finance book, it's like, how
(05:06):
is this distinguished from the thousandsof other finance books out there?
And my best guess, Joy, is they kindof looked at me and said, okay, this
guy's got 10 kids, single income
pastor salary.
Before that, he was asingle income teacher.
He must know somethingabout finances or he
wouldn't be able to takecare of his family like this.
And so I, I guess it kind of comesdown to the word credibility.
(05:26):
I think that maybe I have credibility,not because we've ever had tons of money,
but we've been wise with the finances
that we have.
and at the same time, God's been gracious,to say that We're fine financially because
we're wise almost sounds proud or thatwe're taking the credit for it in reality
God's also been gracious and has blessedus I kind of think that's Part of what
I would say to your listeners God saysI honor those who honor me and if we
(05:47):
strive to honor God with our financesThen I think we can trust that I'm not
saying we're going to be rich or anything.
You know, we drive older vehicles,we'll shop at Goodwill often.
So it's not licensed to go and,live luxuriously, but I do feel
like God takes care of his children.
We've never went without or anything.
Joy Hunt (06:04):
Yeah, that's such a, such a fun story, right?
and, and yeah, people will say,Oh, you could do this because X,
Y, Z and, and your story, your, thefamily that God has given you does
give you a sort of credibility.
about this financial stuff, right?
so now I remember you telling me that youand your wife paid off your consumer debt.
(06:25):
So can you tell me aboutwhat that journey was like?
What led to that and,and what the impact was?
Scott LaPierre (06:31):
Yeah, so that's one thing I'm going to kind of separate
debt into, as you said, consumerdebt or material debt versus real
estate debt or like mortgages.
Okay, so I don't see any reason forChristians to ever have any debt
except for perhaps with real estate.
And I'm not even saying you have to have amortgage or have to have debt through real
estate, But there's no real reason forChristians to have credit card debt to,
(06:55):
buying used vehicles.
As I mean, everyone's kind ofheard like a hundred times.
You're not that when you buy a newvehicle and drive it off the lot,
it depreciates like, you know, 20%.
So let me be the 101st person to remindeveryone of that and just say, it's better
to find good deals on used vehicles.
so anyway, when we got married andI think this might be kind of a,
funny marriage thing My wife and Iwere, we thought we're gonna, get
(07:17):
married and maybe, like, every othercouple that gets married believe
we're the first couple that's nevergonna have any marriage problems.
Right?
You know, and so we get marriedand we're going through premarital
counseling and everything's fine.
And then, I remember our, oneof our, I think it was our first
fight we were driving and Katiewants to stop at this gas station.
She's going to go buylike some 6 drink there.
(07:38):
And I said, you know, we could go toCostco and we could buy a whole, a whole
carton of those for like the same price.
And she's like, well, what do you mean?
I just, I want to get this now.
And I'm like,
well, it's super overpriced.
It's at a gas station.
And so it's like, that was thefirst realization that we're
very different financially.
And Katie's dad was a farmer.
And so he always had like.
(07:58):
Hundreds or thousands of dollarsflowing in and out of their family,
very, so it was very comfortable forhim to just shuttle money to his kids.
Whenever kind of they wanted something,and I'm not saying he's not a good dad
or that he spoiled him or something.
That's not the case.
You know, he's a wonderful fatherin law and I love him, but, but
we were raised vastly differently.
And so
my point is when we get married, shedoesn't think much about spending
(08:21):
10 bucks here, 20 bucks there, even100 bucks or 50 bucks if you want
something, whereas I'm growing up.
And we're, we're trying to save money.
And so I come into our marriage believingI'm going to be, you know, be a school
teacher and then probably a pastor.
And we need to, we need thingsto be kind of tight financially.
I didn't have any college debt.
I had been paying off my school loanskind of as I went through school
(08:44):
versus accumulating debt over time.
And Katie comes in our marriage andshe's got like, I mean, you name it.
She's pretty much got that kind of debt.
Joy Hunt (08:50):
Pretty normal, right?
Scott LaPierre (08:51):
Yeah, if it's like vehicle, credit card,
school loans, she's got it all.
And so, it was a, causedtension in our relationship.
And
one of the things that's sort of funny,I don't agree with everything in Dave
Ramsey's book, because I have a morefavorable view of real estate debt or
mortgages than Dave Ramsey does, butKatie was, we were given the total
(09:11):
money makeover for a wedding gift,and we're driving to our honeymoon.
And Katie's reading this thing and thensuddenly she, it's like the pendulum
swings and now suddenly she's like totallyopposed to debt, you know, and God really
used that book in her life to give hera very, very, negative view of debt.
And it's funny because she'd bekind of reading it and getting all
(09:33):
worked up and I'm kind of like, inmy mind, I'm thinking, What did I
not say that Dave Ramsey has clearlysaid much better than me that has
convinced you when I couldn't do that.
And it was so bad that she's like,we need to, we should sell our house.
We should move into this littleshack just so we can be debt free.
And I'm like, we're not gonna, we'll stayin the house that we have, you know, we
can, we, and we did end up paying it off.
And so there was a season thatwe didn't have any debt at all.
(09:56):
And Katie wasn't, you know,she subbed a little bit before
we had a baby, but She got
pregnant, I think, twoweeks after we were married.
So most of our married life, youknow, we've had, we've had a,
children and so she's never reallycontributed a lot financially.
She contributes in tons
of other wonderful ways athome, just not financially.
And so, so then we're, Payingoff her college loans and credit
(10:19):
cards, we're getting rid ofcredit cards and all this stuff.
And then, yeah, we became debtfree and it's kind of surprising.
There's kind of these twoaccounts in scripture.
There's the widow when the oil ismultiplied for her and it's putting
all those jars and she, and so I kindof, I think that's a real instructive,
account because it's like this,the jars were never overflowing.
(10:40):
But there was also always enough,and that's kind of finances.
You're probably not going to have, youknow, money overflowing out the door
where you're just like, well, you know,I almost need to find stuff to spend
money on because I have so much money.
It's not going to be that, butyou're also not going to go without.
She had just enough.
and I think that's apretty biblical principle.
You know, Matthew 6 33, Jesus says,seek first the kingdom of God and all
(11:00):
these things will be added unto you.
And you Kind of get the impression we'resupposed to go through life, serving the
Lord, being faithful, and he picks up thetab, you might say, or takes care of us.
And I've found that to be true.
And that's basically been mycounsel to people as well.
Joy Hunt (11:14):
So then you talked about how the two of you came into that marriage with
really different perspectives on money.
how did your financial journeyreally affect your marriage?
Scott LaPierre (11:27):
Well, it was stressful.
There was tension at first, andI think it was kind of looking at
the other person, like, I wouldnot have guessed you felt that way.
And I'm like, I would not haveguessed you felt that way.
I remember one time she wanted to getsome new towels because we had some
towels that were like, I don't knowif they got bleached or something,
and they were supposed to be green.
And then they ended up havingthese bleach stains, because
like, we got to get new towels.
And I'm like, These towels workfine to dry us off, you know, and
(11:49):
that was another, another argument.
And so when I do premaritalcounseling now, which I do, you
know, I've done lots of weddings.
I've written a marriage book.
I do marriage conferences.
So even though I'm the teachingpastor, I often get asked to do
premarital counseling and financesis one of the major topics that I hit
Along with parenting and in laws aregenerally one of the big three for
(12:10):
marriage problems.
And so it's really importantto consider your compatibility.
I tell my kids that, you know, whenyou figure out your deal breakers or
essentials versus non essentials foryour spouse in the future, you need to
figure out how they view debt, becauseit could end up being a big, Source
of conflict in your relationships.
And now Katie and I are on the same page.
I appreciate her efforts to be frugal, youknow, not waste food or throw things away.
(12:35):
so yeah, we, there'smore compatibility there.
Joy Hunt (12:37):
what were some steps that you guys took to actually get on
the same page when you realize,hey, we've got this disconnect.
Scott LaPierre (12:44):
So that book, the total money makeover was a
big, influence on Katie's life.
I'd like to thank God's wordinfluenced her too, because she
knew that the Bible speaks, thedebtor, a servant to the lender is
the, the well known verse inProverbs about being a slave.
And that's how it was in the ancient worldthat when you owe now, we don't do this.
I mean, the worst is you kindof go bankrupt and, you know,
(13:06):
your credit plummets, but in theancient world, you became a slave.
Yeah.
to the person, not, not like,unfortunately, when we think of
slavery in scripture, we kind ofapply it to slavery in the South
and the early United States history.
it was more like kind of an employmentwhere you worked for someone, so you
worked off, paid off that debt you owed.
And it, and so that was akind of the system in the, in
(13:27):
scripture, in the ancient world,where you just worked for this person
until you paid off what you owed them.
and it can be a prettygood system to be honest.
And there were, you know, commandsand God's law associated with the
masters were to treat their slaves.
It has a lot more to do with kind oflike an employer employee relationship
versus slavery where there'sany abuse or anything like that.
So scripture also influence Katie.
(13:49):
And I think she saw our finances andjust knew that, you know, once you
kind of understood interest rates and,
you know, how much you're gonna end uppaying over however many years if you just
pay off the minimum on your credit card.
I mean, it's there's reasons thatThat's how they make money is by they
don't want you to pay off credit card.
Companies don't want you topay off their credit card.
(14:09):
mortgage companies don't wantyou to pay off your mortgage.
Automobile lenders don'twant you to pay off your,
your automobile loan, because that's wherethey get their money is from all of that.
So once Katie saw how much we endedup paying over time, I think that
was pretty shocking to her too.
Joy Hunt (14:23):
the thing that got my dad in that conversation was what, that's why
they have tall buildings and you don't.
Right?
Like, that's where, that's whereall that interest is going.
It's not, it's not going to makesomebody's life better, right?
it's just, this thing is gettingbigger and bigger and, and you're not.
Scott LaPierre (14:42):
It's kind of like I heard the same thing with gambling with casinos.
You know, if casinos didn't take yourmoney, you would go to the casino
and there'd be a sign out frontthat says closed, ran out of money,
you know, we're not open any longer.
I mean, you go to the casino, there's allthe lights and fanciness and extravagance
because they're taking your money.
Joy Hunt (14:58):
They are not in the business of making you wealthy.
Scott LaPierre (15:01):
Right.
Joy Hunt (15:02):
And they're not in the business of making you healthy,
or prosper, or any of that stuff.
so you know, a lot of pastors may becounseling couples, either premarital
counseling like you talked about,or, working with couples who are
having marital issues and they'restruggling with financial issues.
do you have any advice that youwould give to those pastors?
Scott LaPierre (15:22):
Yeah, I mean, I have a ton of ton of counsel on this
and to limit it to an interview.
I mean, I've got sections,huge sections of my book, your
finances, God's way about this.
But whenever people come in to havefinancial counseling with me, I tell them.
I'm because I want them, I want to valuetheir time and I want them to value my
time and I want to help them.
(15:43):
And so I say, for this to bebeneficial, you need to come in
with your last 3 months of expenses.
And when people do that, here's whathappens joy because I noticed this.
Let's say, let's just use round numbers.
Let's say there's a couple togetherthat makes 8, 000 per month and they
say, okay, we spend 3, 000 on ourmortgage payment and we have 2, 000 on
(16:04):
our, on our car payments, and then weshould have 3, 000 extra every month.
We don't know where this money's going.
We should be getting aheadinstead of we're falling behind.
Well, once you look at theirexpenses, then you can see.
Because they know the major purchase,they know the 3, 000 to the mortgage,
2, 000 to car payments, but they'rewondering where the extra 3, 000 goes.
So that's why you need to
see what people have spent.
(16:25):
And most of the time I found that, sothere's kind of this belief that if
someone is struggling financially, theymust have had like some horrible purchase,
you know, where they just threw awaylike 80, 000 or just went into debt.
And that's not the case joy.
Most of the time people arestruggling because of small purchases
that add up.
And so I'm a big proponent of tryingto limit those small purchases.
(16:47):
I mean, you know, coffee is 1 of the1 of the classic examples, right?
there's the people that are drivingto work and picking up their favorite
coffee and just saying, that's onlyfive bucks or seven bucks or 10 bucks.
And, and not considering howthat adds up to, you know,
seven, 8, 000 over a few years.
and that's just coffee.
I mean, once you add in eating out,go into the movies, these X and the
(17:10):
thing is, these are not expenses oflike thousands of dollars in one time.
I mean, it adds up to be thousands.
It's like 20 bucks here, 30
bucks there.
50 bucks there.
I'm also not saying younever do these things.
the other day I took two of myboys, they know that I go out with
different young men in the church.
So I went out with two of my boys tokind of do a Bible study with them.
(17:31):
And we went to lunch and it was60 something bucks that I spent.
And that was, I think that's actually thefirst time I can remember doing that just
to take out my two oldest boys like that.
So my point isn't thatyou never do these things.
My point is just be conscientiousof how often you're doing it
and how much money goes into it.
Joy Hunt (17:48):
I think when I sit down with clients, it's the same thing
where they have no awareness.
how all those little things are adding up.
They have no idea how much is goingto restaurants or how much is going
to, you know, to coffee shops orsubscriptions even because it's not
one big giant expense It's a wholebunch of little teeny, you know,
I've heard somebody say, yeah, wegot in debt five and 10 at a time.
Scott LaPierre (18:11):
Yeah.
And the other thing is if you justthink about how much easier it is
to justify the 20 or 30 purchaseversus that large purchase, right?
And so it's, It's very easy to just spenda little bit of money very frequently
versus spending a lot of money once or
twice.
And one of the other things that Italk to people about is entitlement,
(18:32):
and being entitled is a greatthreat to our financial health.
those words, you know, I want it now.
And have caused lots ofproblems and, or I deserve it.
And so I'm not even saying you cannever deserve something like, let's
say you've paid off a lot of debtor you paid off a credit card, or
you're thinking of some trip orsomething or vacation with your family.
Well, maybe that's the reward afteryou get all your credit cards paid
(18:56):
off or your vehicles paid off.
And then you can actually
say, Hey, I deserve this.
I've earned it after, but whatpeople often do is it's like, Oh,
I'm discouraged or I don't feel good.
Or, You
know, I'm upset about this.
So I deserve to go and then all theyreally deserve is a worse financial
situation and so, being entitled andsometimes other people, we have to be
(19:17):
conscious of other people that allowus or encourage us to feel entitled.
You know, there's those friends, theymean well, and they say something
like, you know, you should, youdeserve this, you should have this,
you should buy this for yourself.
And then again, you're probablyjust maybe increasing the amount
of debt On your credit card.
So being aware of small purchasesto add up, being aware of being
entitled, kind of the attitudethat Esau had, like, I want it now.
(19:39):
I want my pot of stew right now and Idon't care what I have to give up for it.
That Is another attitude that's
very detrimental to us.
Have you ever heard of theStanford marshmallow experiment?
Joy Hunt (19:49):
but tell our listeners in case they haven't heard it.
Scott LaPierre (19:52):
Okay.
so years ago, Stanford conducted thisstudy with these children that they
brought into this room put them ina table with a plate in front of
them and a marshmallow on the plate.
the children were told that they could eatthe marshmallow right now, if they wanted.
Or if they waited until the personconducting the study came back,
they'd get a second marshmallow.
(20:13):
And there's videos of this.
You can look this stuff up online orgo to YouTube and, and see the videos.
and it's super entertaining.
You know, you're watching these kids.
You're almost cheering for them asthey're sitting at the table, wringing
their hands or licking their lips andhow much they want the marshmallow.
And inevitably, every child fallsinto one of these two categories.
You have the children whoeat the marshmallow, and
then you have the children
who wait.
(20:34):
And so.
That's not the study though.
That's the beginning of the studybecause then they followed these
same children over the next 20 years.
And the results were astounding.
How much better in almost every area oflife, the children who waited did compared
to those children who didn't wait andtheir higher SAT scores, the body mass
(20:56):
index, obviously their financial health.
And so the idea of being selfcontrolled disciplined, being
willing to sacrifice is a huge
factor in terms of financial success.
You know, just beingable to deny ourselves.
I mean, and this is all biblical, Right.
The Bible exalts patience.
The Bible exalts self sacrifice.
(21:17):
The Bible exalts self denial.
So when we're applying these biblicalprinciples to our lives, then we are
setting ourselves up for success.
The Bible is full of a lot of wisdom.
that's one of the things that Iwould say Joy, is if you're going
to do well financially, you'vegot to get used to sacrifice.
it's like almost losing weight or goingto college or almost anything in life.
(21:39):
If you're going to be successful,it requires sacrifice.
If you're going to be indulgent, then it'sprobably not going to go well for you.
Joy Hunt (21:46):
Right, you know, so you mentioned patience and self control,
those are fruit of the spirit, right?
And so, can you share your thoughts on,on why or how money is a spiritual issue?
Scott LaPierre (21:57):
Yeah, so I think there's, if someone was to walk into a church
and the pastor and they learn, you know,the pastor sermon that day is on love or
forgiveness or prayer or repentance, it'skind of like, okay, that's spiritual.
That makes sense.
I should hear a sermon on that.
But if you come in and then thepastor says, okay, today's sermon
is going to be about money.
I think people are kind oflike, well, what's that?
(22:18):
You know, that's
not spiritual.
I thought I'm coming to a church,not coming to a, you know, a
college class or a banking seminar.
the question is, what determineswhat is spiritual, or how do we
determine if something is spiritual?
And I would say God's Word determineswhether something is spiritual.
In other words, the more frequentlysomething is discussed in Scripture,
then the more spiritual it is, right?
(22:38):
And so, if that's our litmus test forspirituality, or what's spiritual, how
frequently it occurs in God's word, thenactually there aren't, there are not
many things that are more spiritual thanfinances, because finances is one of the
most common topics in scripture, right?
one over one third of Jesus'sparables are about finances.
There's so much about stewardship, justrecognizing things don't belong to us.
(23:02):
And so whenever we see somethingdiscussed that regularly in scripture,
it definitely is a spiritual matter.
And in fact, it's probably prettyaccurate to say that if you really
want to understand people spirituallyspeaking, you can look at two things.
You know, you can look at their calendarand their checkbook, because then you see
how they spend their two most importantresources, their time and their money.
But what we do with financessays, an incredible amount about
(23:24):
our relationships with Christ.
Joy Hunt (23:26):
would you say also that what we do with finances could I don't know, maybe
I'm like thinking out loud here, right?
But I know for me going throughthat process of learning to manage
my money God's way completelyshifted my spiritual life too.
I was committed, you know, I was apastor before I was committed to God
before, like those things didn't change,but my relationship with God changed.
(23:49):
I learned to trust more.
I'm exercising some of thosemuscles that we see in scripture.
and I saw that as I started tofollow through in this one area
of my life that it started to playout in these other areas as well.
Scott LaPierre (24:02):
Yeah, well, the way we manage our finances,
it really is a faith issue.
It's a reflection of what we thinkabout God and how we feel, whether we
believe God or trust the Lord or not.
And so the idea is if you're going togive a certain amount to the church,
And people typically, you know, use10 percent because of tithing, even
though, even though we're not necessarilycommanded to give a tithe, or maybe
(24:24):
some people should get more than 10%.
but the point is, let's just sayyou give 10 percent to the church.
It's a faith issue because you believeGod can do more with 90 percent of
your money than you could do with
100 percent of your money.
So, Finances are really a great reflectionof our relationships with Christ.
There's even this pastor I was talkingto, and I told him that I don't
know what people in the church give.
(24:46):
And he said, that's fine.
But if you ever bring someoneinto leadership, you should find
out what they give to the church.
And I kind of was shocked at first.
And I said, well, why do you say that?
And he said, because you're, if you putsomeone in leadership in the church,
don't you want to know their heart?
Don't you want to know theirmaturity and relate what their
relationship with the Lord is like?
where he was going.
I said, yeah.
And he said, well, what's moreimportant than that, than what
(25:08):
they do with their finances.
I mean, their prayer life, their purity,their relationship with their spouse,
their relationship with their children.
But after that, probably what they do withfinances is one of the greatest insights
into what someone is, like spiritually.
And one of those things you wouldwant to know if you were going to
have someone in leadership with you.
Joy Hunt (25:24):
Now, for sure, you'd want to know if they're going to
be aligned on, generosity and thesekind of principles that we as a
leadership team agree to, right?
You want to know, is somebody goingto be on the same page as your
team on that kind of thing, right?
Scott LaPierre (25:38):
Yeah.
Joy Hunt (25:39):
you can't like open a book and see what somebody's relationship
with their spouse is at home.
but you can see a lotfrom a bank statement.
Scott LaPierre (25:48):
and so, yeah, you can see whether someone's generous.
You can see whether and then when you'regoing to want to give to missions or
something like that, that's a good point.
You made that you're going to wantto know if there's compatibility and
chemistry there in that area of finances.
Joy Hunt (26:02):
do they share the values that your team has because they may
be a great servant hearted personand may not be the fit for your team.
so as we get ready to wrap up here, wouldyou, we've talked about, pastors that
are counseling people in their church.
We've talked a little bit aboutour own personal finances for
pastors that would want to gettheir personal finances in order.
(26:25):
how could you encourage them?
Scott LaPierre (26:26):
Yeah, I'd say that the Bible speaks very positively about
planning, preparing for the future.
You know, the wise man seesdanger and prepares for it.
There's a contrast between the ant,you know, the ant is applauded because
the ant prepares and stores up.
And these are all positive things.
principles that by extensionapply to finances as well,
you know, because you could
say, well, that's notdirectly about finances.
(26:47):
It might not directly be aboutfinances, but when the Bible talks
about planning and preparing, whetherit's about trials or whether it's
about, you know, anything else in life,it's going to apply to finances too.
And so having a budget, you know, havinga plan, not just approaching it sort
of, haphazardly and just, You know,let the chips fall where they may.
you want to have an idea of whatyou're doing, a budget and how much
(27:08):
money you have coming in, goingout, because you can't really assess
your situation or make improvements.
If you don't really know what yoursituation is, you can't really
decide to save more or spend less.
If you don't know howmuch you're spending or
saving already, you can'tchange your spending.
If you don't know where the moneyyou're spending is actually going.
the other thing is pastors don'thave to be experts on everything.
I understand people come to usfor counsel, but I think wise
(27:30):
pastors also get counsel in otherareas where they're not as strong.
some pastors are stronger withmarriage perhaps, or they understand
different areas of preaching better,or they're better at counseling.
And so with, finances, if youknow, that's a weak area for you.
That doesn't mean you're not agreat pastor, but maybe go get some
(27:51):
financial counseling or help fromsomeone that is strong in that area.
There's wisdom in many counselors,you know, that's the principle
you apply then to finances.
Joy Hunt (27:58):
for sure.
And if any of our listeners needto be connected with somebody
in that area, I have a group offinancial coaches that would love
to be able to work with pastors.
So definitely reach out to us.
So as we wrap up here, then Scott, canyou just tell us where, where can we learn
more about your books and connect withyour ministry and what you guys are doing?
Scott LaPierre (28:20):
Yeah.
Great.
Thanks, Joy.
So my website, scotlapierre.
org, and I'm sure you'll havea link to it in the show notes.
That's kind of the hub.
Everything goes out from there.
You can find my sermons, my conferencemessages, my books, any resources.
And I know we talked about financesin this interview, we talked about
marriage some, and I've got a freegift for your listeners called seven
biblical insights for marriage.
And if your listeners come to mywebsite, they can download that for free.
(28:42):
And I hope it strengthens their marriage.
And I've got a Contact page, they can goto the contact page, ask me any questions
if they want, but they should be able tofind everything there through my website.
And then my YouTube channel has allmy sermons and videos of sermons
and conference messages there.
Joy Hunt (28:56):
Thank you for making that, available to our listeners.
And thank you so much, Scott, for thetime and sharing your story with us today.
And your wisdom from walking throughthis journey yourself and with the
people that you've counseled as well.
Scott LaPierre (29:07):
Yeah, thanks, Joy.
I appreciate what you're doing too.
This is a needed area and I appreciateyour ministry and heart for others to
be serving the Lord with their finances.
Joy Suzanne Hunt (29:17):
Thank you for listening to today's show.
I'd love to know what you think about it.
You can leave a comment on the shownotes at pastorsandmoney.com/podcast,
or email me at joy@pastorsandmoney.com.
If you enjoyed the show, pleasesubscribe, share, and leave a review.
This helps us to get the wordout and invite more people
into these conversations.
(29:38):
If you'd like to connect, you canfind me on Instagram or Facebook.
@ PastorsandMoney.
I can't wait to talk again soon.
Welcome to the Pastors & Money Podcast.
I'm Joy Suzanne Hunt, pastor and financialcoach, bringing you conversations
about personal finance, church financeand how we disciple our churches in
the areas of finance and stewardship.
You can find the episode show notes,and more at pastorsandmoney.com.
And here's the show.
(00:36):
Scott LaPierre is the teachingpastor of Woodland Christian
Church in Woodland, Washington, anauthor and a conference speaker.
God has blessed Scott and his wife, Katie,with 10 children and an 11th on the way.
And Scott is a former schoolteacher and army officer.
And you can learn more aboutPastor Scott at his website, www.
scottlapierre.
(00:56):
org.
Well, Scott, welcome to the podcast.
Scott LaPierre (00:59):
Thanks Joy, glad to be here, I appreciate you having me on.
Joy Hunt (01:02):
Ah, so why don't we just get started by, if you can share a
little bit about your ministry journeyand how you got started in ministry.
Scott LaPierre (01:10):
Sure.
Okay.
So I wasn't raised in a Christian home,and I was an army officer after college.
I went through ROTC, and then afterI got out of the military, I started
teaching elementary school, and mybrother died of a drug overdose, which
was a shock to most of our family.
He didn't look like a drug addict.
He'd actually enlisted in the military.
(01:31):
So we kind of had this incommon where I was an officer.
He's enlisted, but he gotaddicted to pain pills.
And so when he overdosed, I was teachingelementary school at this time, and some
of my fellow teachers were Christians,and they invited me to their church.
And they said, Hey, you shouldcome talk to our pastor.
He lost his brother when he was aboutyour age and you could talk to him.
And I was struggling.
(01:51):
So I went to this church, no intentionof being saved or born again.
Those weren't even terms that I knew.
And I went there and I hadgrown up in the Catholic church.
So I was kind of under the impression thatpeople can't really understand the Bible.
You know, we need to talk to a priestor the Pope if we want to understand it.
So I go to this church and they gave mea Bible, because I didn't even bring one
with me, and the pastor read a verse,explained it, read a verse, explained
(02:15):
it, and I, it was a life changingmoment for me, because I realized I can
understand God's word, and I believedhe was speaking to me through it, and
I heard the gospel soon after that, andit bore witness that we're justified or
declared righteous by grace through faith.
And then I thought I was going to teachand coach the rest of my life because
I enjoyed it so much, but I foundmy passion for ministry increasing,
(02:36):
and I really wanted to tell peopleto open their Bibles versus telling
students to open their math books.
And so then God opened a doorfor me to go into ministry
part time as a youth pastor.
There was a local
church that was, wanted to hire a pastor.
A youth pastor, but couldonly do so part time.
So it's hard to get someone to fly acrossthe country for a part time position.
And so I applied and they hiredme, the church grew, and then they
(02:59):
brought me on full time there.
And that was in California.
But really, Joy, I don't thinkI'm a very good youth pastor.
And it's like my wife, I guess if you'regoing to be a good youth pastor, you
know, you got to want to stay up allnight and play video games and eat worms.
And my wife and I just arenot a very silly couple.
Joy Hunt (03:15):
So that's a very special gift, isn't it?
Scott LaPierre (03:17):
Yeah, that's a good way to say it.
Exactly, Joy.
And so my senior pastor, to hiscredit, knew I wanted to preach and,
minister to adults, and so he mentoredme and then we came to Washington in
2010 for the teaching pastor positionhere, and we've been here since then.
And we have a lot of kids.
(03:39):
I mean, we're going to be talkingabout finances and I think that's
kind of an important detail because.
Many people might think that, youknow, you can't afford lots of
kids or you've got to have a lotof money to have a lot of kids.
And that's not the case at all.
And I think just to be clear, Iwouldn't say we have a lot of kids
because we want to have a lot of kids.
I mean, we're thankful to have the kids wehave, but that wasn't like our conviction.
(04:01):
It wasn't like, let's get marriedand have as many kids as we can have.
Instead.
It was like, let's just getmarried and let God be in charge
of this area of our lives.
And it's not a commentary onwhat anyone else has to do.
That was just our conviction.
And, you know, it could have beenthree kids or seven kids or, you
know, it's 10 with an 11th on the way.
We just wanted to get to theend of our lives and feel like
God's fingerprints were on our family.
(04:22):
And so we left it up to him and,you know, people are surprised.
They're like, I can't believeyou have, you know, you're
expecting your 11th child.
And I'm like, that makes two of us.
I can't believe we'reexpecting our 11th child.
So we've always been single income.
My wife's always stayed home.
With our kids and homeschooled wetried a Christian school recently,
and it didn't work super wellfor us just because the distance.
(04:42):
I guess one of the things I'd say,just knowing the topic of this
conversation, I published a bookcalled your finances God's way.
And when, if you ever want a publisherto publish one of your books, they're
kind of the, one of the main questionsthey're going to want to know is
What separates your book from everyother book on this topic, right?
Nobody's really writing booksthat haven't been written.
So you want to, especially if you wantto write a finance book, it's like, how
(05:06):
is this distinguished from the thousandsof other finance books out there?
And my best guess, Joy, is they kindof looked at me and said, okay, this
guy's got 10 kids, single income
pastor salary.
Before that, he was asingle income teacher.
He must know somethingabout finances or he
wouldn't be able to takecare of his family like this.
And so I, I guess it kind of comesdown to the word credibility.
(05:26):
I think that maybe I have credibility,not because we've ever had tons of money,
but we've been wise with the finances
that we have.
and at the same time, God's been gracious,to say that We're fine financially because
we're wise almost sounds proud or thatwe're taking the credit for it in reality
God's also been gracious and has blessedus I kind of think that's Part of what
I would say to your listeners God saysI honor those who honor me and if we
(05:47):
strive to honor God with our financesThen I think we can trust that I'm not
saying we're going to be rich or anything.
You know, we drive older vehicles,we'll shop at Goodwill often.
So it's not licensed to go and,live luxuriously, but I do feel
like God takes care of his children.
We've never went without or anything.
Joy Hunt (06:04):
Yeah, that's such a, such a fun story, right?
and, and yeah, people will say,Oh, you could do this because X,
Y, Z and, and your story, your, thefamily that God has given you does
give you a sort of credibility.
about this financial stuff, right?
so now I remember you telling me that youand your wife paid off your consumer debt.
(06:25):
So can you tell me aboutwhat that journey was like?
What led to that and,and what the impact was?
Scott LaPierre (06:31):
Yeah, so that's one thing I'm going to kind of separate
debt into, as you said, consumerdebt or material debt versus real
estate debt or like mortgages.
Okay, so I don't see any reason forChristians to ever have any debt
except for perhaps with real estate.
And I'm not even saying you have to have amortgage or have to have debt through real
estate, But there's no real reason forChristians to have credit card debt to,
(06:55):
buying used vehicles.
As I mean, everyone's kind ofheard like a hundred times.
You're not that when you buy a newvehicle and drive it off the lot,
it depreciates like, you know, 20%.
So let me be the 101st person to remindeveryone of that and just say, it's better
to find good deals on used vehicles.
so anyway, when we got married andI think this might be kind of a,
funny marriage thing My wife and Iwere, we thought we're gonna, get
(07:17):
married and maybe, like, every othercouple that gets married believe
we're the first couple that's nevergonna have any marriage problems.
Right?
You know, and so we get marriedand we're going through premarital
counseling and everything's fine.
And then, I remember our, oneof our, I think it was our first
fight we were driving and Katiewants to stop at this gas station.
She's going to go buylike some 6 drink there.
(07:38):
And I said, you know, we could go toCostco and we could buy a whole, a whole
carton of those for like the same price.
And she's like, well, what do you mean?
I just, I want to get this now.
And I'm like,
well, it's super overpriced.
It's at a gas station.
And so it's like, that was thefirst realization that we're
very different financially.
And Katie's dad was a farmer.
And so he always had like.
(07:58):
Hundreds or thousands of dollarsflowing in and out of their family,
very, so it was very comfortable forhim to just shuttle money to his kids.
Whenever kind of they wanted something,and I'm not saying he's not a good dad
or that he spoiled him or something.
That's not the case.
You know, he's a wonderful fatherin law and I love him, but, but
we were raised vastly differently.
And so
my point is when we get married, shedoesn't think much about spending
(08:21):
10 bucks here, 20 bucks there, even100 bucks or 50 bucks if you want
something, whereas I'm growing up.
And we're, we're trying to save money.
And so I come into our marriage believingI'm going to be, you know, be a school
teacher and then probably a pastor.
And we need to, we need thingsto be kind of tight financially.
I didn't have any college debt.
I had been paying off my school loanskind of as I went through school
(08:44):
versus accumulating debt over time.
And Katie comes in our marriage andshe's got like, I mean, you name it.
She's pretty much got that kind of debt.
Joy Hunt (08:50):
Pretty normal, right?
Scott LaPierre (08:51):
Yeah, if it's like vehicle, credit card,
school loans, she's got it all.
And so, it was a, causedtension in our relationship.
And
one of the things that's sort of funny,I don't agree with everything in Dave
Ramsey's book, because I have a morefavorable view of real estate debt or
mortgages than Dave Ramsey does, butKatie was, we were given the total
(09:11):
money makeover for a wedding gift,and we're driving to our honeymoon.
And Katie's reading this thing and thensuddenly she, it's like the pendulum
swings and now suddenly she's like totallyopposed to debt, you know, and God really
used that book in her life to give hera very, very, negative view of debt.
And it's funny because she'd bekind of reading it and getting all
(09:33):
worked up and I'm kind of like, inmy mind, I'm thinking, What did I
not say that Dave Ramsey has clearlysaid much better than me that has
convinced you when I couldn't do that.
And it was so bad that she's like,we need to, we should sell our house.
We should move into this littleshack just so we can be debt free.
And I'm like, we're not gonna, we'll stayin the house that we have, you know, we
can, we, and we did end up paying it off.
And so there was a season thatwe didn't have any debt at all.
(09:56):
And Katie wasn't, you know,she subbed a little bit before
we had a baby, but She got
pregnant, I think, twoweeks after we were married.
So most of our married life, youknow, we've had, we've had a,
children and so she's never reallycontributed a lot financially.
She contributes in tons
of other wonderful ways athome, just not financially.
And so, so then we're, Payingoff her college loans and credit
(10:19):
cards, we're getting rid ofcredit cards and all this stuff.
And then, yeah, we became debtfree and it's kind of surprising.
There's kind of these twoaccounts in scripture.
There's the widow when the oil ismultiplied for her and it's putting
all those jars and she, and so I kindof, I think that's a real instructive,
account because it's like this,the jars were never overflowing.
(10:40):
But there was also always enough,and that's kind of finances.
You're probably not going to have, youknow, money overflowing out the door
where you're just like, well, you know,I almost need to find stuff to spend
money on because I have so much money.
It's not going to be that, butyou're also not going to go without.
She had just enough.
and I think that's apretty biblical principle.
You know, Matthew 6 33, Jesus says,seek first the kingdom of God and all
(11:00):
these things will be added unto you.
And you Kind of get the impression we'resupposed to go through life, serving the
Lord, being faithful, and he picks up thetab, you might say, or takes care of us.
And I've found that to be true.
And that's basically been mycounsel to people as well.
Joy Hunt (11:14):
So then you talked about how the two of you came into that marriage with
really different perspectives on money.
how did your financial journeyreally affect your marriage?
Scott LaPierre (11:27):
Well, it was stressful.
There was tension at first, andI think it was kind of looking at
the other person, like, I wouldnot have guessed you felt that way.
And I'm like, I would not haveguessed you felt that way.
I remember one time she wanted to getsome new towels because we had some
towels that were like, I don't knowif they got bleached or something,
and they were supposed to be green.
And then they ended up havingthese bleach stains, because
like, we got to get new towels.
And I'm like, These towels workfine to dry us off, you know, and
(11:49):
that was another, another argument.
And so when I do premaritalcounseling now, which I do, you
know, I've done lots of weddings.
I've written a marriage book.
I do marriage conferences.
So even though I'm the teachingpastor, I often get asked to do
premarital counseling and financesis one of the major topics that I hit
Along with parenting and in laws aregenerally one of the big three for
(12:10):
marriage problems.
And so it's really importantto consider your compatibility.
I tell my kids that, you know, whenyou figure out your deal breakers or
essentials versus non essentials foryour spouse in the future, you need to
figure out how they view debt, becauseit could end up being a big, Source
of conflict in your relationships.
And now Katie and I are on the same page.
I appreciate her efforts to be frugal, youknow, not waste food or throw things away.
(12:35):
so yeah, we, there'smore compatibility there.
Joy Hunt (12:37):
what were some steps that you guys took to actually get on
the same page when you realize,hey, we've got this disconnect.
Scott LaPierre (12:44):
So that book, the total money makeover was a
big, influence on Katie's life.
I'd like to thank God's wordinfluenced her too, because she
knew that the Bible speaks, thedebtor, a servant to the lender is
the, the well known verse inProverbs about being a slave.
And that's how it was in the ancient worldthat when you owe now, we don't do this.
I mean, the worst is you kindof go bankrupt and, you know,
(13:06):
your credit plummets, but in theancient world, you became a slave.
Yeah.
to the person, not, not like,unfortunately, when we think of
slavery in scripture, we kind ofapply it to slavery in the South
and the early United States history.
it was more like kind of an employmentwhere you worked for someone, so you
worked off, paid off that debt you owed.
And it, and so that was akind of the system in the, in
(13:27):
scripture, in the ancient world,where you just worked for this person
until you paid off what you owed them.
and it can be a prettygood system to be honest.
And there were, you know, commandsand God's law associated with the
masters were to treat their slaves.
It has a lot more to do with kind oflike an employer employee relationship
versus slavery where there'sany abuse or anything like that.
So scripture also influence Katie.
(13:49):
And I think she saw our finances andjust knew that, you know, once you
kind of understood interest rates and,
you know, how much you're gonna end uppaying over however many years if you just
pay off the minimum on your credit card.
I mean, it's there's reasons thatThat's how they make money is by they
don't want you to pay off credit card.
Companies don't want you topay off their credit card.
(14:09):
mortgage companies don't wantyou to pay off your mortgage.
Automobile lenders don'twant you to pay off your,
your automobile loan, because that's wherethey get their money is from all of that.
So once Katie saw how much we endedup paying over time, I think that
was pretty shocking to her too.
Joy Hunt (14:23):
the thing that got my dad in that conversation was what, that's why
they have tall buildings and you don't.
Right?
Like, that's where, that's whereall that interest is going.
It's not, it's not going to makesomebody's life better, right?
it's just, this thing is gettingbigger and bigger and, and you're not.
Scott LaPierre (14:42):
It's kind of like I heard the same thing with gambling with casinos.
You know, if casinos didn't take yourmoney, you would go to the casino
and there'd be a sign out frontthat says closed, ran out of money,
you know, we're not open any longer.
I mean, you go to the casino, there's allthe lights and fanciness and extravagance
because they're taking your money.
Joy Hunt (14:58):
They are not in the business of making you wealthy.
Scott LaPierre (15:01):
Right.
Joy Hunt (15:02):
And they're not in the business of making you healthy,
or prosper, or any of that stuff.
so you know, a lot of pastors may becounseling couples, either premarital
counseling like you talked about,or, working with couples who are
having marital issues and they'restruggling with financial issues.
do you have any advice that youwould give to those pastors?
Scott LaPierre (15:22):
Yeah, I mean, I have a ton of ton of counsel on this
and to limit it to an interview.
I mean, I've got sections,huge sections of my book, your
finances, God's way about this.
But whenever people come in to havefinancial counseling with me, I tell them.
I'm because I want them, I want to valuetheir time and I want them to value my
time and I want to help them.
(15:43):
And so I say, for this to bebeneficial, you need to come in
with your last 3 months of expenses.
And when people do that, here's whathappens joy because I noticed this.
Let's say, let's just use round numbers.
Let's say there's a couple togetherthat makes 8, 000 per month and they
say, okay, we spend 3, 000 on ourmortgage payment and we have 2, 000 on
(16:04):
our, on our car payments, and then weshould have 3, 000 extra every month.
We don't know where this money's going.
We should be getting aheadinstead of we're falling behind.
Well, once you look at theirexpenses, then you can see.
Because they know the major purchase,they know the 3, 000 to the mortgage,
2, 000 to car payments, but they'rewondering where the extra 3, 000 goes.
So that's why you need to
see what people have spent.
(16:25):
And most of the time I found that, sothere's kind of this belief that if
someone is struggling financially, theymust have had like some horrible purchase,
you know, where they just threw awaylike 80, 000 or just went into debt.
And that's not the case joy.
Most of the time people arestruggling because of small purchases
that add up.
And so I'm a big proponent of tryingto limit those small purchases.
(16:47):
I mean, you know, coffee is 1 of the1 of the classic examples, right?
there's the people that are drivingto work and picking up their favorite
coffee and just saying, that's onlyfive bucks or seven bucks or 10 bucks.
And, and not considering howthat adds up to, you know,
seven, 8, 000 over a few years.
and that's just coffee.
I mean, once you add in eating out,go into the movies, these X and the
(17:10):
thing is, these are not expenses oflike thousands of dollars in one time.
I mean, it adds up to be thousands.
It's like 20 bucks here, 30
bucks there.
50 bucks there.
I'm also not saying younever do these things.
the other day I took two of myboys, they know that I go out with
different young men in the church.
So I went out with two of my boys tokind of do a Bible study with them.
(17:31):
And we went to lunch and it was60 something bucks that I spent.
And that was, I think that's actually thefirst time I can remember doing that just
to take out my two oldest boys like that.
So my point isn't thatyou never do these things.
My point is just be conscientiousof how often you're doing it
and how much money goes into it.
Joy Hunt (17:48):
I think when I sit down with clients, it's the same thing
where they have no awareness.
how all those little things are adding up.
They have no idea how much is goingto restaurants or how much is going
to, you know, to coffee shops orsubscriptions even because it's not
one big giant expense It's a wholebunch of little teeny, you know,
I've heard somebody say, yeah, wegot in debt five and 10 at a time.
Scott LaPierre (18:11):
Yeah.
And the other thing is if you justthink about how much easier it is
to justify the 20 or 30 purchaseversus that large purchase, right?
And so it's, It's very easy to just spenda little bit of money very frequently
versus spending a lot of money once or
twice.
And one of the other things that Italk to people about is entitlement,
(18:32):
and being entitled is a greatthreat to our financial health.
those words, you know, I want it now.
And have caused lots ofproblems and, or I deserve it.
And so I'm not even saying you cannever deserve something like, let's
say you've paid off a lot of debtor you paid off a credit card, or
you're thinking of some trip orsomething or vacation with your family.
Well, maybe that's the reward afteryou get all your credit cards paid
(18:56):
off or your vehicles paid off.
And then you can actually
say, Hey, I deserve this.
I've earned it after, but whatpeople often do is it's like, Oh,
I'm discouraged or I don't feel good.
Or, You
know, I'm upset about this.
So I deserve to go and then all theyreally deserve is a worse financial
situation and so, being entitled andsometimes other people, we have to be
(19:17):
conscious of other people that allowus or encourage us to feel entitled.
You know, there's those friends, theymean well, and they say something
like, you know, you should, youdeserve this, you should have this,
you should buy this for yourself.
And then again, you're probablyjust maybe increasing the amount
of debt On your credit card.
So being aware of small purchasesto add up, being aware of being
entitled, kind of the attitudethat Esau had, like, I want it now.
(19:39):
I want my pot of stew right now and Idon't care what I have to give up for it.
That Is another attitude that's
very detrimental to us.
Have you ever heard of theStanford marshmallow experiment?
Joy Hunt (19:49):
but tell our listeners in case they haven't heard it.
Scott LaPierre (19:52):
Okay.
so years ago, Stanford conducted thisstudy with these children that they
brought into this room put them ina table with a plate in front of
them and a marshmallow on the plate.
the children were told that they could eatthe marshmallow right now, if they wanted.
Or if they waited until the personconducting the study came back,
they'd get a second marshmallow.
(20:13):
And there's videos of this.
You can look this stuff up online orgo to YouTube and, and see the videos.
and it's super entertaining.
You know, you're watching these kids.
You're almost cheering for them asthey're sitting at the table, wringing
their hands or licking their lips andhow much they want the marshmallow.
And inevitably, every child fallsinto one of these two categories.
You have the children whoeat the marshmallow, and
then you have the children
who wait.
(20:34):
And so.
That's not the study though.
That's the beginning of the studybecause then they followed these
same children over the next 20 years.
And the results were astounding.
How much better in almost every area oflife, the children who waited did compared
to those children who didn't wait andtheir higher SAT scores, the body mass
(20:56):
index, obviously their financial health.
And so the idea of being selfcontrolled disciplined, being
willing to sacrifice is a huge
factor in terms of financial success.
You know, just beingable to deny ourselves.
I mean, and this is all biblical, Right.
The Bible exalts patience.
The Bible exalts self sacrifice.
(21:17):
The Bible exalts self denial.
So when we're applying these biblicalprinciples to our lives, then we are
setting ourselves up for success.
The Bible is full of a lot of wisdom.
that's one of the things that Iwould say Joy, is if you're going
to do well financially, you'vegot to get used to sacrifice.
it's like almost losing weight or goingto college or almost anything in life.
(21:39):
If you're going to be successful,it requires sacrifice.
If you're going to be indulgent, then it'sprobably not going to go well for you.
Joy Hunt (21:46):
Right, you know, so you mentioned patience and self control,
those are fruit of the spirit, right?
And so, can you share your thoughts on,on why or how money is a spiritual issue?
Scott LaPierre (21:57):
Yeah, so I think there's, if someone was to walk into a church
and the pastor and they learn, you know,the pastor sermon that day is on love or
forgiveness or prayer or repentance, it'skind of like, okay, that's spiritual.
That makes sense.
I should hear a sermon on that.
But if you come in and then thepastor says, okay, today's sermon
is going to be about money.
I think people are kind oflike, well, what's that?
(22:18):
You know, that's
not spiritual.
I thought I'm coming to a church,not coming to a, you know, a
college class or a banking seminar.
the question is, what determineswhat is spiritual, or how do we
determine if something is spiritual?
And I would say God's Word determineswhether something is spiritual.
In other words, the more frequentlysomething is discussed in Scripture,
then the more spiritual it is, right?
(22:38):
And so, if that's our litmus test forspirituality, or what's spiritual, how
frequently it occurs in God's word, thenactually there aren't, there are not
many things that are more spiritual thanfinances, because finances is one of the
most common topics in scripture, right?
one over one third of Jesus'sparables are about finances.
There's so much about stewardship, justrecognizing things don't belong to us.
(23:02):
And so whenever we see somethingdiscussed that regularly in scripture,
it definitely is a spiritual matter.
And in fact, it's probably prettyaccurate to say that if you really
want to understand people spirituallyspeaking, you can look at two things.
You know, you can look at their calendarand their checkbook, because then you see
how they spend their two most importantresources, their time and their money.
But what we do with financessays, an incredible amount about
(23:24):
our relationships with Christ.
Joy Hunt (23:26):
would you say also that what we do with finances could I don't know, maybe
I'm like thinking out loud here, right?
But I know for me going throughthat process of learning to manage
my money God's way completelyshifted my spiritual life too.
I was committed, you know, I was apastor before I was committed to God
before, like those things didn't change,but my relationship with God changed.
(23:49):
I learned to trust more.
I'm exercising some of thosemuscles that we see in scripture.
and I saw that as I started tofollow through in this one area
of my life that it started to playout in these other areas as well.
Scott LaPierre (24:02):
Yeah, well, the way we manage our finances,
it really is a faith issue.
It's a reflection of what we thinkabout God and how we feel, whether we
believe God or trust the Lord or not.
And so the idea is if you're going togive a certain amount to the church,
And people typically, you know, use10 percent because of tithing, even
though, even though we're not necessarilycommanded to give a tithe, or maybe
(24:24):
some people should get more than 10%.
but the point is, let's just sayyou give 10 percent to the church.
It's a faith issue because you believeGod can do more with 90 percent of
your money than you could do with
100 percent of your money.
So, Finances are really a great reflectionof our relationships with Christ.
There's even this pastor I was talkingto, and I told him that I don't
know what people in the church give.
(24:46):
And he said, that's fine.
But if you ever bring someoneinto leadership, you should find
out what they give to the church.
And I kind of was shocked at first.
And I said, well, why do you say that?
And he said, because you're, if you putsomeone in leadership in the church,
don't you want to know their heart?
Don't you want to know theirmaturity and relate what their
relationship with the Lord is like?
where he was going.
I said, yeah.
And he said, well, what's moreimportant than that, than what
(25:08):
they do with their finances.
I mean, their prayer life, their purity,their relationship with their spouse,
their relationship with their children.
But after that, probably what they do withfinances is one of the greatest insights
into what someone is, like spiritually.
And one of those things you wouldwant to know if you were going to
have someone in leadership with you.
Joy Hunt (25:24):
Now, for sure, you'd want to know if they're going to
be aligned on, generosity and thesekind of principles that we as a
leadership team agree to, right?
You want to know, is somebody goingto be on the same page as your
team on that kind of thing, right?
Scott LaPierre (25:38):
Yeah.
Joy Hunt (25:39):
you can't like open a book and see what somebody's relationship
with their spouse is at home.
but you can see a lotfrom a bank statement.
Scott LaPierre (25:48):
and so, yeah, you can see whether someone's generous.
You can see whether and then when you'regoing to want to give to missions or
something like that, that's a good point.
You made that you're going to wantto know if there's compatibility and
chemistry there in that area of finances.
Joy Hunt (26:02):
do they share the values that your team has because they may
be a great servant hearted personand may not be the fit for your team.
so as we get ready to wrap up here, wouldyou, we've talked about, pastors that
are counseling people in their church.
We've talked a little bit aboutour own personal finances for
pastors that would want to gettheir personal finances in order.
(26:25):
how could you encourage them?
Scott LaPierre (26:26):
Yeah, I'd say that the Bible speaks very positively about
planning, preparing for the future.
You know, the wise man seesdanger and prepares for it.
There's a contrast between the ant,you know, the ant is applauded because
the ant prepares and stores up.
And these are all positive things.
principles that by extensionapply to finances as well,
you know, because you could
say, well, that's notdirectly about finances.
(26:47):
It might not directly be aboutfinances, but when the Bible talks
about planning and preparing, whetherit's about trials or whether it's
about, you know, anything else in life,it's going to apply to finances too.
And so having a budget, you know, havinga plan, not just approaching it sort
of, haphazardly and just, You know,let the chips fall where they may.
you want to have an idea of whatyou're doing, a budget and how much
(27:08):
money you have coming in, goingout, because you can't really assess
your situation or make improvements.
If you don't really know what yoursituation is, you can't really
decide to save more or spend less.
If you don't know howmuch you're spending or
saving already, you can'tchange your spending.
If you don't know where the moneyyou're spending is actually going.
the other thing is pastors don'thave to be experts on everything.
I understand people come to usfor counsel, but I think wise
(27:30):
pastors also get counsel in otherareas where they're not as strong.
some pastors are stronger withmarriage perhaps, or they understand
different areas of preaching better,or they're better at counseling.
And so with, finances, if youknow, that's a weak area for you.
That doesn't mean you're not agreat pastor, but maybe go get some
(27:51):
financial counseling or help fromsomeone that is strong in that area.
There's wisdom in many counselors,you know, that's the principle
you apply then to finances.
Joy Hunt (27:58):
for sure.
And if any of our listeners needto be connected with somebody
in that area, I have a group offinancial coaches that would love
to be able to work with pastors.
So definitely reach out to us.
So as we wrap up here, then Scott, canyou just tell us where, where can we learn
more about your books and connect withyour ministry and what you guys are doing?
Scott LaPierre (28:20):
Yeah.
Great.
Thanks, Joy.
So my website, scotlapierre.
org, and I'm sure you'll havea link to it in the show notes.
That's kind of the hub.
Everything goes out from there.
You can find my sermons, my conferencemessages, my books, any resources.
And I know we talked about financesin this interview, we talked about
marriage some, and I've got a freegift for your listeners called seven
biblical insights for marriage.
And if your listeners come to mywebsite, they can download that for free.
(28:42):
And I hope it strengthens their marriage.
And I've got a Contact page, they can goto the contact page, ask me any questions
if they want, but they should be able tofind everything there through my website.
And then my YouTube channel has allmy sermons and videos of sermons
and conference messages there.
Joy Hunt (28:56):
Thank you for making that, available to our listeners.
And thank you so much, Scott, for thetime and sharing your story with us today.
And your wisdom from walking throughthis journey yourself and with the
people that you've counseled as well.
Scott LaPierre (29:07):
Yeah, thanks, Joy.
I appreciate what you're doing too.
This is a needed area and I appreciateyour ministry and heart for others to
be serving the Lord with their finances.
Joy Suzanne Hunt (29:17):
Thank you for listening to today's show.
I'd love to know what you think about it.
You can leave a comment on the shownotes at pastorsandmoney.com/podcast,
or email me at joy@pastorsandmoney.com.
If you enjoyed the show, pleasesubscribe, share, and leave a review.
This helps us to get the wordout and invite more people
into these conversations.
(29:38):
If you'd like to connect, you canfind me on Instagram or Facebook.
@ PastorsandMoney.
I can't wait to talk again soon.
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