June 23, 2025 • 56 mins
Pastors' Perspective is a one-hour call-in program where listeners can call in and get answers to questions about the Bible, Christianity, family, and life. The program is live Monday through Friday from 3:00 PM - 4:00 PM Pacific. You can call 888-564-6173 to ask your questions.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:17):
Hey guys, welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez.
It is Monday, June 16th, and we are here live
until 4 o'clock to answer the questions you've got about
the Bible, Christian faith, maybe something you heard at church yesterday.
We'd love to hear from you at 888-564-6173. If you're
(00:37):
watching us on Facebook, YouTube, or Instagram, thank you for watching. We, uh,
Ask you if you have a question to call in
because we'd love to hear from you as well. 888-564-6173.
You can also send in your questions online if you'd like. There's, uh,
one way to do it is on, uh, Facebook Messenger,
the Pastor's perspective Facebook Messenger, or you can DM us
(00:59):
on the Pastor's perspective Instagram, or if you're watching on Facebook, YouTube,
or Instagram right now, there's a QR code there on
the bottom right. Well, my left, you're right. Uh, if
you click on that.
You, or if you scan that, I should say it'll
take you right to the page where you can ask
your question. But the best way to get an answer
is to call us at 888-564-6173. And sitting in the
(01:21):
studio with me today is Char Broderson, the senior pastor
of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa in Southern California. How you doing, Char?
I'm doing all right, Brian. Good. I'm, uh, we had
a couple work days this last week, not, you know,
just days where we're at work, but, you know, we're
doing physical labor, we're getting rid of just some old.
Uh, furniture on our property and then we had a
(01:43):
workday on our campus for volunteers, you know, in the
church and we ripped out a bunch of bushes and
just did all this manual labor.
So I'm tired. I'm like feeling it, you know, I
appreciate you coming in because, well, yeah, I mean, well,
it is my job. So there was that part of it.
But no, yeah, it's just been a
A long weekend. So yeah, I'm looking forward to my
(02:03):
next day off, which is not till Friday. Oh man, OK,
I'll make it. So easy questions only for Char today
so that he doesn't have to, uh, slow pitches only. Yes,
no Char can answer anything, so.
Uh, you got a call though, because we can't read
your mind. We don't know what you want to ask Char. 888-564-6173.
Here's a question that was sent in online on Facebook.
(02:25):
It's from Pam. Now, Pam sent this question in on Friday.
This past Friday was when this whole thing started between
Israel and Iran, uh, where Israel bombed Iran and then
Iran retaliated. So here's what Pam's question is, um, dear pastors,
before I heard any news this morning,
(02:46):
My devotions mentioned Micah 6:8. Parenthetically, I learned that verse
years ago, early in my Christian walk through an old
Maranatha music song. Since I heard the news about the
bombings of Iran by Israel, my heart has been rejoicing.
Pam says, am I in violation of that verse by
loving the justice of this action over the mercy I
(03:10):
should feel for those who lost their lives? I'm conflicted.
Can you please give me your perspective? Chart.
Yeah, I mean, in, in the context of Micah 6:8,
I mean, it, it's a question that the people of
Israel are asking, like, what is God actually looking for
among his people, you know, and right, the, the, what
(03:33):
they think God is looking for is sacrifices, is offerings, and,
you know, the, the prophet is making it clear. Actually
what God is looking for is right living.
He's looking for justice and mercy and humility. And so
the prophet, of course, is redirecting um God's people back
to his heart. Get beyond the religious regulation and observances
(03:56):
and actually get to the core of the matter, the
heart of the issue. And I think that Pam, you're
asking a really important question here because I think what
we can tend to do, uh, any people living at
any time and any place is that we can tend
to make our nation's enemies.
Our enemies. And I think as followers of Jesus, uh,
(04:19):
we are not allowed to see human beings as enemies,
we are to see them as those who've been made
in the image of God, those, uh, for whom Christ
has died, uh, for those for whom salvation is to
be brought to them, um, they're supposed to be recipients
of God's grace.
And I think Jesus is the one that redefines those things,
(04:42):
or not just even redefines, because that, you know, would
mean that the definitions were unclear to begin with. But
of course, Israel, as a nation in the Old Testament,
had lost their way. We've been actually looking at this
a lot um in our teachings on the gospel of Mark.
The, the nation of Israel had really by the time
of the first century become prejudiced and almost xenophobic or
(05:04):
against the other nations because they saw them as a
contaminant as those that were keeping them in exile and
keeping the judgment of God upon them. And so they
sought through going back to Levitical kind of holiness to
purify themselves so that God would, you know, send a
Messiah and the kingdom of God would come. And so,
You had all of this viewing of the nations, not
(05:25):
just as, you know, separate and, you know, distinct, but
actually as enemies.
And so, sometimes, you know, what Jesus is correcting in
the Gospels is this view of those outsiders, this view
of Gentiles as unclean, as vile, as a contaminant, and
he's actually redefining them as, no, these are people whom
(05:48):
God wants to reach. These are people whom God wants
to love. And so I think we really need to
take our walking orders from Jesus, and yes, to um
To love mercy, uh, to do justly, to walk humbly,
is one way, I think that we can live out
(06:08):
what Jesus taught in the sermon on the Mount, uh,
to be meek, to be, uh, peacemakers, to be those
who hunger and thirst for righteousness.
Uh, we even think about the heart of God and
the Old Testament. Remember there's that passage where God says,
I don't delight in the death of the wicked, but
my desire is actually that they would turn and that
(06:28):
they would change their ways. And so I think whenever
we hear of, you know, people dying, even if it
is a tyrant, I, I think I would just pause
if my heart is rejoicing over the death of anyone. I,
I might say, wow, OK, like there is justice that
happens in this world.
(06:49):
But I think to rejoice is, you know, maybe a
deeper issue of my own heart, you know, and I
think Pam's kind of onto something like, uh, should my
first instinct be mercy. Now, let me just say this.
Usually our first instincts aren't the right instincts, and I
think there's grace for that.
And I think Jesus wants to transform us by his spirit,
(07:12):
so that our first instincts, as we learn to walk
in His ways, would be those that would be in
step with his heart and in step with uh the
way of the Spirit. You know, of course, we can
read about the way of the Spirit at the end
of Galatians, right? It's love, joy, peace, kindness.
Uh, patience, self-control, I'm missing a few there, but, you know,
just the fruit of the spirit would be born in
(07:33):
our lives, in our responses, um, to justices, injustices, sin
and evil in the world that we would even respond.
Uh, in humility. Pam, thank you for sending in your
question on Facebook, and Marlene also sent a question about Israel, and, uh,
she did this by scanning on that QR code on Facebook,
(07:56):
YouTube or Instagram, or you can go to Kwave.com and
look for the pastor's perspective page, but Marlene.
Writes, whenever there's conflict in Israel, Ezekiel 38 and 39
are always talked about. When do these events take place?
Could they happen during the tribulation or the end of
the millennium? Yeah, it's a, it's a really good question.
It's interesting. You know, I, I, sometimes I'm just really
(08:20):
blown away by the way that the New Testament authors
saw the prophetic visions of the Old Testament coming to pass.
Um, and the reason I bring this up is because, uh,
Ezekiel 38 and 39 is sandwiched between two, just incredible visions.
One is in Ezekiel 37, a picture of the valley
(08:41):
of dry bones.
And it's this, uh, kind of rebirth, regathering of the
nation of Israel is what it seems to be, and
that God is gonna breathe new life into them. There's
gonna be this new work that happens. He's gonna, you know,
bring Israel from all over the nations and, um, yeah,
(09:01):
restore them. And then we have this passage in the
middle about this great war that's gonna happen.
And then what comes next is this vision of a
temple in the last days, and this temple's gonna be
unlike the temple of the Old Testament. Remember the temple
in the Old Testament, you had to do all of
these ceremonial cleansing and washings to come into the temple,
(09:24):
because if you were a contaminant, you would defile the temple.
But we see this reverse thing happening here, where living
water is coming from the temple, and instead, the temple
is making everything it touches clean.
Now,
The pro or excuse me, the New Testament authors believed
(09:45):
that this vision of the temple was fulfilled in and
through Jesus. This is what he's doing all throughout his ministry.
Everywhere he goes, he is the incarnate presence of God.
He's housing the living presence of God in his body,
and every
Where he goes, whoever he touches, he's not made unclean,
they are made whole. They are given life and healing
(10:07):
and salvation. And so the New Testament authors have seen
that Jesus is actually this fulfillment of the latter-day temple.
And so I, I just bring all this up just
to say, I think that this causes us to pause.
And just kind of wonder about uh our biblical interpretation
of passages. Where does this fit in our timeline and events?
(10:31):
You know, there would be some who would see, you know,
maybe a more of a pre pre millennial view, they
would see that there is this timeline, OK, Israel came
back and as a nation, state now, and so now
we're waiting for this great war and then, you know,
the tribulation and these things, and so we're kind of
looking at this timeline, but
For me, just as a student of the Bible, looking
(10:52):
at how Jesus fulfills so many of these Old Testament
passages just gives me pause from um
Some of these eschatological views and timelines, if this really
is what it is. So,
That is a long way to say. I don't really
know when this will happen, and I don't think anyone
(11:14):
really does. It's really a guessing game and depends on
your eschatological view. Marlene, thank you for sending in your
question through the Kwave.com pastor's perspective page, and now we're
gonna go to the phones. 888-564-6173 is our number, and, uh,
we're gonna get two questions here for the price of one.
(11:36):
Uh, Cindy and her grandson Oliver are on the phone.
Hi there. Welcome to Pastor's Perspective. Who wants to go first?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Oh, I'll start. This is, um, Grandma Cindy. And Oliver
asked so many awesome questions, but we had fun the
other day talking about heaven, and Oliver, he will ask you, um,
but to, to preface it, I didn't want to dampen
his thoughts about heaven by talking about yes or no
on the ocean. So, here, Ollie, it's your turn. Hi.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Hi, Ollie. How old are you?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
5.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
5.5. Awesome. Well, thanks for calling in today to be yes.
What did you want to know?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
What do you want?
Um, can you have a pet shark in heaven?
Speaker 1 (12:24):
You know, all the Bible doesn't talk about whether or
not we will have pets in heaven or not, but
sometimes when we talk about heaven, we think of it
as a different place, but what the Bible says is actually,
when God makes everything new, God's gonna bring heaven to earth.
(12:49):
And so when we think about our life with God
in God's kingdom, we need to picture the world in
which we live in now, that is just filled with animals,
that's filled with life and wonder and so much creativity
and beauty, that God's kingdom is gonna look like that,
but without any sorrow, without any pain, we won't have
(13:12):
any fear.
And so I believe that in God's kingdom, yeah, there
will be all kinds of pets. And actually, the Bible
talks about how in God's kingdom, there will be lions there,
there will be wolves, there will be snakes, there will
be all these kind of animals, and they're gonna live together,
and they're not gonna eat each other anymore, and even
(13:33):
little children won't have to be afraid of poisonous snakes
or of, you know, scavenging lions, but will actually be
able to play with them.
And so sharks aren't specifically mentioned in the Bible, but
these other animals are as being a part of God's
new kingdom that we are invited to be a part of.
(13:54):
Is that pretty exciting?
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Ollie, come back. He's listening. He's just running around. He's 52.
Yeah, your question, Ollie.
Um, how did God make such good peaches?
Speaker 1 (14:07):
That is a great question. I don't think we've ever
had that one before. Well, the one about sharks too,
but yeah, I think, you know what, Ollie, I think
the answer is, is because God is so good. I
think that's probably the only answer I can give. God
has made so many good things to eat and to
see and to hear, and just to experience because God
(14:31):
is so kind and he's so good, and these are
his gifts that he's given to us.
Ali, may you never lose that sense of wonder. I
mean to just bite into a peach and go, man, God,
this is awesome. How did you do this?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I mean.
Most of us
Speaker 1 (14:47):
just pick up food, put it in our mouth, and
we're done. But Ollie's actually thinking about it. Thank you
for calling in today, and Cindy, you as well on
Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173. Did you have another thought? Char? OK.
Speaking of peaches, right? Can we bring some peaches into
the studio? All right, Richard and Costa Mesa, welcome to
(15:08):
Pastor's Perspective.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
I, um, so first off, I, I brought up this
question last week, I think it was on Thursday, and
that was when, um, Brian and
Cheryl, is that right, Cheryl, it's your parents, right?
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yeah, those are my parents.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Yeah, right. Anyway, uh, they were the they were the
pastors that were speaking, and the question had to do with, uh,
my daughter just graduated from the school there at Calvary Chapel,
Costa Mesa, and she's 18 and she's probably gonna be
getting the job and I was teaching her about tithing.
And um it was a good conversation out of that
(15:49):
conversation came something else.
And now we are using a website called Charity Navigator
to find different ministries to give to. And the question
that I have is, what do you think is a, uh,
fair or godly amount that a ministry should pay their CEO?
(16:09):
And then secondly, what do you think is a wise
or godly amount that a ministry should spend on advertising?
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Oh, interesting.
Yeah, I mean, obviously, these are all things that are
just very contextual to where you live, right? I mean,
an amount, you know, in a place like Bangladesh compared
to an amount and, you know, what does it cost
to live in Southern California. I think about for, you know,
just somebody in my own position, right? I live here
in Southern California. I have a family, we're a family
(16:39):
of 5, and part of pastoral ministry is just hospitality,
you know, it's having people over.
Entertaining, and I don't mean like, you know, I just
mean like being a good host, right? Making people feel
comfortable and at home so that they can open up
about the difficulties that they're going through so that we
can care for them. And so, um, our church community
(16:59):
here pays me, um, you know, to be able to
do those things, to live in a way that is comfortable,
to serve our community, to I think to be equipped
to do what I've been called to do. And so,
I would say that I think it really, it needs
that kind of discernment. What is the role, uh, what
is this person being called to do? What are the
kind of outliers that we're not considering that are going
(17:21):
to be, you know, pain points, you know, um, are
they able to rest? Are they able to have that
kind of, um, you know, maybe they have vacation time,
are they able to actually even take the vacation? Can
they afford it? These are things that I would want
to consider for somebody in a role like that that's overseeing.
Uh, so many people, like a CEO or something like that.
And so, yeah, I just think that these are situations
(17:43):
where we have to take those biblical principles of generosity, um,
of care, you know, Jesus' principle, the golden rule, do
unto others as you would have them do, uh, unto you.
I don't think that anybody, uh, should be paid such
an extravagant amount, you know, it's just that, you know,
the people under them are suffering. I think those are
the most the things that we need to be considering
(18:04):
in these.
Instances, you know, what is just, what is equitable, um,
somebody who leads, uh, should be leading in the caring
for the community that they're overseeing. So they're, you know,
an example as well. So those would be things that
I would consider, um, in setting a salary for somebody
overseeing a ministry, CEO, um, and what have you.
(18:27):
You bring up a very good point too. We have
pastors who are maybe over a smaller congregation who maybe
can't afford to pay them, so they've got to go
work a regular 9 to 5 job during the week,
plus they're putting sermons together for Sundays and they're meeting
with people. What would you say about that? Yeah, I mean,
(18:48):
there's a whole
Yeah, ministry is a lifestyle job, right? There's just so
many um factors and, and, I mean, I, when I
was in Santa Rosa pastoring for 15 years there,
You know, there were seasoned. I literally wore every hat
in our church, you know, leading worship, um, organizing and
doing all the administration, um, payroll. I mean, you know,
(19:10):
I do everything because I was literally the sole employee
of the church. So, in those years, I was not
able to be compensated for what I was doing and yet,
you know, this was uh the ministry that God had
called me to and he provided for us in those areas.
I want to come back to the second question, um,
how much should
An organization spend on advertising. I imagine that you're talking
(19:32):
about a Christian organization, so I guess I'll speak to that.
Um
I don't, I mean, I guess I would just ask like, yeah,
what is the purpose of advertising for that organization, ministry, um,
you know, there's been questions around the he gets us campaign,
(19:54):
you know, and people criticizing like, man, think about how
much money was spent on the, the Super Bowl and
others are saying, well, you know, this is all this
money is an attempt to get the gospel out and
You know, people on this side and people on that
side disagreeing on these things, and I think at the
end of the day, I.
I think the most important part of an organization is
the people, right? The people that work, uh, within the organization,
(20:17):
and I think the quality of what you're gonna put
out is determined to what you put into that organization.
And one of our principles has been uh people first,
and it's been that the people that, you know, are
under us are really experiencing a culture of goodness.
And so, you know, any advertising or anything that we
do for our church, and that's actually very minimal besides,
(20:39):
you know, Google, Facebook, just search engines and things like that,
K wave and
You know, we're really trying to spend our money on
caring for our people, taking care of our uh local needs,
and we actually think that the the best uh advertising
for the church is actually the life health of the church, right?
(21:03):
It's the.
community itself that is going to be the best advertisement
for Jesus and for his kingdom, just the way that
we live, um, the way that we live with one another,
the way that we care for one another, the way
that we care for outsiders and our neighbors. So I
think those would be the things that I would be
more concerned about, uh, rather than the amounts.
(21:24):
With the he gets us campaign too, my thought was, OK,
if you don't like the way this organization is spending
all this money at the Super Bowl, just don't donate
towards it. But there are other people who might think differently,
and they think, yeah, it'll be great to have an
ad on the Super Bowl, so I'm gonna donate towards it,
but if you don't feel the same way, then just
don't give. Yeah, yeah, I think, I don't know, we
(21:44):
spent a lot of time criticizing.
Other Christians, rather than, you know, I think looking for
those opportunities of where we really do agree and where
we can just support or
Yeah, just kind of mind our own business.
Richard, thank you for your phone call today on Pastor's Perspective.
888-564-6173 is our number. We've got Pastor Char Broderson from
(22:09):
Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa here to answer your questions at 888-564-6173.
Now let's go to Danny, who's watching us on Facebook
in Covina. Welcome to Pastor's Perspective, Danny.
Hi, pastors, uh, this is sort of a follow up
of a question I had a couple weeks ago. Um,
(22:29):
After Moses, uh, in, uh, Exodus chapter 4, where God
had just told Moses to, um,
Go, go to Egypt.
Tell Pharaoh to to uh release my people, and then
later on next paragraph.
(22:51):
God was coming to kill Moses because his son was uncircumcised.
Uh, I was wondering, when God initially instituted that with
Abraham's circumcision,
All God said
So Abraham was
If somebody doesn't get circumcised, they're cut off from the covenant,
(23:13):
they're cut off from the people.
Did God have two different standards, one standard for Abraham
and one standard for Moses? Cause one, he said, you're
just cut off, the other one, you pay for your life. Yeah.
Yeah, some have looked at the the actual term there
(23:33):
that's used, and this is actually used all throughout the
um mosaic law as well, this term of being cut off,
that this is actually um another term for death or
the death penalty. So it's probably more than just being, um,
you know,
Pushed out of the community of the redeemed. Uh, it's
(23:55):
probably more serious than that, and I think we see
that even here in this story with Moses. And the
big issue here is that this is God's one.
Sign of covenant with his people. So if you have this,
you're in, if you don't, you're out, and God is
sending his spokesperson, his representative to lead his people out,
(24:18):
and Moses has not even taken care of his own house.
Those in his own house are not dedicated and in
covenant with Yahweh at this point. And so this is
why this, you know,
The seriousness of this situation here.
Does that help you, Danny? He was, he was brought
(24:39):
up as, uh, an Egyptian.
So, does God curse ignorance?
No, so, uh, even though Moses is brought up as
an Egyptian, you know, we know, um, specifically from, remember
Stephen's speech in Act 7?
I mean, it clearly shows us Moses is not ignorant
(24:59):
concerning the things of God. He is actually well versed,
and he understands at 40 years old, that it's time
for him to join the people of God, and he
is somehow supposed to play a part in rescuing them
and bringing them out of slavery. Now, of course, he
takes matters into his own hands, we know the story.
But Israel, I mean, excuse me, Moses, yet he is informed.
(25:22):
He's most likely taught in these things and also taught
in all the wisdom of the Egyptians.
So I do, I do not believe that we should
see Moses as being somebody who is ignorant. I mean,
And again, you know, we know from God's own self-revelation.
God's gracious, compassionate, slow to anger, abounding and steadfast love,
(25:45):
God has mercy on ignorance, right? That's not the kind
of being that we're dealing with. And so these stories
that are recorded here when God is, you know, making
a big deal of these things, we need to focus
in on the why, right? God isn't just saying, hey,
you're ignorant and now you're gonna punish for be punished
for it.
(26:06):
Uh, God is taking Moses to task because he knew
that his household should be dedicated to the Lord.
OK, Danny?
Yeah, it was just that a lot of people were
punished even before the law was written.
Breaking items that were part of the law later on, like, uh,
(26:30):
thou shalt not kill. It wasn't in
The law, but Cain did it. He killed somebody and
he was punished. Was was he punished for it?
Uh, he was
Exiled from the rest of the people, yeah, but he's
not punished according to the Mosaic law, because the punishment
(26:51):
according to the Mosaic law is death, and so God
actually has mercy on him and puts a mark of
protection on Cain.
Oh yes, that's true, yes, yes.
Yeah, you know, it's a great, um, Danny, a great
book uh written by
Oh, I'm gonna blink on the name all of a sudden,
but uh the book is called Echoes of Exodus.
(27:14):
And it's very insightful showing how the Bible's actually telling
uh the exodus story again and again and again, that
the authors of the Bible um are continually kind of
taking this as the great story of the Bible, and
they kind of use this as a theme again and again.
And so you can actually see in
(27:36):
Um, even early in the exodus, before the actual exodus happens,
that there are these things that Moses is doing, that
are actually
Um, predicting, as it were, the exodus. So, Moses actually
goes through his own series of exoduses before he will
(27:57):
bring the people out in the capital E Exodus. It's
a really helpful book, I think for understanding some of
these stories and patterns that we see within the Old Testament.
So just recommended uh reading if you
Like a follow up. Sounds like a good one. Echoes
of Exodus tracing themes of redemption through Scripture. It's by
(28:17):
Alastair Roberts. Might want to check that out wherever you
get your books. All right, uh, Danny, thank you for
your phone call today on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is the
number to call. The music's gonna start any second now,
so I won't take another question or read something else
from Facebook that was sent in.
Because we're gonna go to break, but we welcome you
(28:38):
to call in. We're gonna be here for the next
half hour answering questions you might have about the Bible,
the Christian faith. You've heard some of the questions we've
had so far, everything from, uh, peaches to sharks to circumcision.
We talk about it all here on Bastard's perspective, apparently, yes.
888-564-6173 is the number.
(29:00):
And, uh, we've got Char Broderson, the lead pastor at
Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa here to answer your questions. Don't
forget you can catch up on Char's Sunday morning messages
in case you weren't at church here yesterday or weren't
able to listen on the radio. They're all archived on
the Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa website, CCCM.com. Your phone calls
(29:20):
coming up at 888-564-6173.
(30:18):
Hey, welcome back to Pastor's Perspective. I'm Brian Perez here
with Char Broderson, the lead pastor at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, 888-564-6173.
That's the number to call for the next 25 minutes
or so. You can also send in your questions online,
but we so like to talk to you. So call 888-564-6173.
(30:40):
That's what Kevin did from Temecula. He's on the phone
with us now. What is your question for Char Broderson, Kevin?
Hello, hello. Um, yeah, uh, my question was, um, what's the, uh, um,
biblical perspective of, um, the deportation of undocumented migrants? Sure.
(31:02):
Yeah, I mean,
There is, I mean, strictly, there is no biblical perspective
on this, right?
Like, um.
You know, we see like in the New Testament, right,
the the, I think one example would be the Roman Empire, right?
There's a census that's given that all the world should
be taxed, we're told by Luke. And so, the Jews
(31:24):
are subject to the rule of Caesar, and so they
fall in line, and they go to the cities where
they were born and they register so that taxation can happen.
They didn't like it, but this was the law of
the land, and so, you know, they do what's required.
Um, I think, you know, when I'm kind of looking
at what's going on right now, I think right, our,
(31:44):
our nation and the laws that we make, we have
the rights, uh, as a nation state to, you know,
create immigration laws and then to, um, enforce those. I
think the deeper issue that we should be concerned about
is the way in which they are being done, and
are they being done in a way that is inhumane?
Um, and destructive and actually creating more chaos, more fear, uh,
(32:10):
in our state. Is this actually making us better as
human beings? Is this actually making us worse and more animalistic?
And I mean, I've seen some footage that just is
heartbreaking in the way that human beings are being treated,
the way that they're being ripped away from their families.
And to me, I think, man, there's got to be
a better way.
Uh, in the way that our government is going about this.
(32:31):
And I think whatever side, you know, you're on and
the issue and whether it should be done or shouldn't
be done, I think as followers of Jesus, we could
all say this can and should be done better in
a way that is humanizing in a way that is
caring for these individuals. So, I think that would be
the closest I could come to a biblical perspective on
(32:52):
these things. What do you think Kevin?
Yeah, I think that's great. Yeah, I uh I agree
with that and um.
Um, yeah, you know.
Only, uh, only Jesus, the king of kings, he can
make things right.
Yeah, I mean, ultimately, I think that's true. I think also,
you know, human beings, God expects human beings to do
(33:14):
what is right, to do what is just and when
we don't, there are, you know, not just consequences to
those things, but oftentimes too, you know, for nation states,
there is judgment that comes from God and so.
You know, think about like the, the kings of Israel
and even what God, you know, prophesized through the prophets
about the surrounding nations and the injustices that they do
(33:35):
and perform. God actually holds them to account. And so, yes, 100%,
we are waiting for the kingdom of God to come,
and yet I do think there is a prophetic voice
that the church can play in calling our leaders to
do what is right.
Kevin, thank you for calling us today on Pastor's Perspective. Robin,
you're next, but first I want to read a question
(33:55):
that was sent in online. It's from Cathy. And here's
Cathy's question. I was listening to your program from May
21st about some fella's gay family, says Cathy. My question is,
why do you question the salvation of LGBT people if
they haven't repented from that sin?
But never question the obese person who continues the sin
(34:17):
of gluttony or the many couples that have divorced because
of irreconcilable differences and gone on to remarry but are
never confronted by their sin of adultery. Don't you believe
what the Bible says about divorce only when there is
sexual infidelity or or abandonment, Full stop. Are they really
Christians if they don't repent from their adultery, divorce their
(34:37):
current spouse, and live the rest of their lives in celibacy?
That's what you expect gays to do to, quote unquote,
show they are repentant. I grow weary of the hypocrisy
and the lame answers I get when I ask this question.
I hope you can do better. No pressure. LOL, Cathy, Char,
what do you say to Cathy? Well, yeah, I mean,
(34:57):
I wasn't here on Wednesday, um, I'm not really sure
what the question was or the issue was, but yeah,
I mean, I'll just say, I do think that the church, um,
For some time has really heavily focused on uh sexual sin.
Uh, specifically, you know, targeting the LGBT community, the way
(35:20):
Cathy pointed out.
To the neglect of talking about other sins, other ways,
you know, that um
You know, God would say, this is not what I
actually mean for humanity. This will not lead to your
flourishing and your thriving, right? We believe that God's instruction
is for our good, for our benefit, and I think
as followers of Jesus, we want to look at anything, um,
(35:43):
any kind of lifestyle that is destructive to human flourishing, um,
as something that we should turn from. That's what the
word repent means. Um.
And I, you know, would say I try to be
consistent with that in my preaching and in my pastoring,
but I think at the same time, there is just
a reality that we live in a broken world, and
(36:06):
people need lots of grace and lots of time because
change is really difficult, even by the power of the
Holy Spirit at work in us, you know, to actually
change our
Behavior, uh, to begin to do the things instinctually that
the spirit desires in our lives takes time, right? And so,
(36:29):
you know, we come to Jesus and we've got lives
that are just full of confusion, uh, sometimes just full
of sin, and thank God, Jesus accepts us as we are.
And he doesn't say, full stop, that's it, you know,
you gotta turn away from all this, or you cannot
(36:50):
be a part of my kingdom, but he says, come
and follow me. That's what he says. You think about,
you know,
We're all gonna have to turn from certain things that
we are trusting in, relying on, addicted to, in order
to follow Jesus. And those will be different in my
life than in your life, Brian, or different in Cathy's
(37:12):
life or this individual. But the real, you know, rub
of it is, Jesus calls us to follow him, and
he's the one that tells us what doesn't fit that discipleship,
you know, and so I think
You know, as followers of Jesus, we need to be
very clear about that. We need to just come back
to Jesus and his standard of living, his standard of righteousness,
(37:33):
his standard of goodness, his standard of purity as our
standard of living, and then apply that to one another
with grace, not saying like, hey, this is the bar,
and if you don't measure up, you're out, but just saying, hey,
we are all striving for this kind of life in Jesus,
let's walk together.
(37:54):
Cathy, thank you for sending in your question through the
Kwave.com pastor's perspective page. And now let's go to Robin
in Murrieta, as promised. Robin is listening on the Kwave app,
and she called in 888-564-6173. How can we help you, Robin?
Um, hi, thank you for taking my call. Yeah, you bet.
(38:15):
How can we help you?
Well, I, I have a question that um I was
thinking about as I was reading um the Bible, and
um my question is, is that when um the Lord
told uh Adam and Eve.
That they could eat from anything in the garden, but
(38:36):
except for the tree in the middle of the garden
and not to eat the fruit, otherwise they would surely die.
My question is, and I just want your perspective on how,
how did they
Or did they know, uh, understand what death meant to
die meant, um, did they, did they understand, um, what
(39:00):
that would mean? Um, just, it's just something I, I
thought about, um, and wanted to get your
Perspective on that. Yeah, I mean, it's a great question too, right?
Because yeah, if sin has not yet entered the world and,
you know, from our understanding, no death has occurred yet.
I mean, like, what does that even mean, right? Dying?
(39:22):
What are you talking about? I think first and foremost,
we're going to, um, as those right who believe the
God of the Bible is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger,
abounding and steadfast love that he, you know, he's a
God of mercy, he's a God that
You know, humbles himself to our level to communicate with us,
you know, like, this is an incredible being. We're gonna
(39:43):
give God the benefit of the doubt, that he's not
just speaking over Adam and Eve's head.
And they're like, oh we didn't know. Like, what's this
whole death thing? I think what they do know, they
do understand the offer on hand.
And the offer is from God. God is inviting Adam
and Eve to learn.
(40:05):
Wisdom
The discerning of good and evil from him.
And not to short circuit the process and take it
from this tree.
So basically they have, you know, kind of like what
we read in um
Psalm 1, right? Psalm 1 and Psalm 2.
We have in Psalm one, the way of the righteous
(40:27):
who meditates on God's law, and through that meditation, they
become somebody who is just so grounded that all the
various seasons of life basically bring no lasting effect on them.
They're rooted and bear fruit in every season. And in
Psalm 2, you have a different kind of meditation.
Where there are certain people who are, same word that's used,
(40:49):
meditating on how to overthrow God in His kingdom, how
to do it their own way, Frank Sinatra style, right?
Um, and so this is what wisdom literature does, is
it presents two paths before us, a path of wisdom
and a path of folly. And I think what we
need to see right here in the pages of Genesis
chapter 2, is that these two ways are presented before
(41:13):
Adam and Eve. There is the way of Yahweh.
To rule with him, to um have dominion over, you know,
the beasts of the field, the birds of the sky,
the birds of the sea, to take the borders of
the garden and to spread it to the ends of
the earth, be fruitful and multiply, subdue the earth. This
(41:34):
is what God is inviting them to do.
And then there is this other option before them. Instead,
they can choose the tree of knowledge, both good and evil,
and like the serpent suggests to them, you can be
like God. You don't need this process, you don't need
(41:54):
this apprenticeship. God is withholding from you and keeping you
from this, and so they short circuit the process and
take from the tree, eat of it, and then, you know,
the ensuing consequences.
So, I bring all that up because I think Adam
and Eve knew clearly what God was asking of them.
(42:15):
Right, Adam willfully transgressed, where Eve was deceived, you know,
we're told. And so whether or not they fully understood,
I mean, you know, just as you're asking the question,
I don't fully understand the concept of death.
That I will take a final breath or something, right?
You know what happened, and I will cease to exist
as I do now, that does not compute for me.
(42:38):
I've seen it happen to others, and still it's beyond
my understanding that this person's gone. So I, you know,
like you're saying, I mean, just imagine being in their shoes.
I don't think they fully understood even as we don't
fully understand as living beings currently, but I think they
did understand what God was instructing them to do and
(43:01):
not to do. And so God holds them responsible for
that and also
God follows them and all the consequences of that, you know,
they're banned from the garden and then God follows them
out of the garden and promises them redemption and salvation.
I mean, it's incredible, God's grace, that even though, you know,
humanity sinned against him, he didn't give up on humanity.
(43:23):
What do you think, Robin?
Yeah, no, that makes sense and that that.
That helps a lot. Um, you know, I, I think that, uh,
even though they didn't understand exactly what that meant, um,
they knew that
(43:44):
Uh, it was a consequence that they, they, they wouldn't
want to have, um, even though, you know, I mean.
I suppose like, like we all deal with every day.
But yeah, so that, no, that helps. I, I just,
I was thinking about it and I was kind of
intrigued by the thought of, you know, I wonder what
(44:06):
they were thinking. Yeah, for sure.
All right, well, thank you for your phone call today
here on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is our number. You've got
a few minutes left to call us here and ask
Char Broderson your question. Here is Jose in Colton. You
are up next. How can we help you, Jose?
Yeah, how you doing, man? I, I listened to you
(44:27):
guys on the, on the application K wave, and, uh,
my question was, uh, you know.
Uh, according to Romans 81, we no longer have to
be condemned because the Bible says we're in Christ, right? Yeah.
And then, uh, you know, we can never lose our
salvation as long as we abide in Christ.
(44:52):
Yep, that's right. That is not that God says that
he hasn't appointed us on to rest, but onto salvation,
you know. Yeah, through Jesus Christ, that's right.
Yes, and, uh, you know, I was just wondering, uh,
you know, you know what's uh, you don't, I don't
necessarily have to be uh in the ministry or be
(45:12):
a pastor, just, uh, a spiritual household man of uh.
All the family, you know, and it's hard because all
my family is Catholic, you know, and I came also
from the Catholic family. I did the whole enchilada confirmation
and communion and but I never learned nothing, you know,
until I, until the spirit of God, you know, called
(45:35):
me and found me, you know. Yeah OK.
Because I was looking for him and uh I did
attend West Covina Calvary Chapel and uh went to Bible
school for pastoral epistles and uh church history and eschatology
things to come.
And uh from my own personal that you use so
I can give an answer to every event for the
hope that is in me, you know. Mhm.
(45:58):
So what did you want to know today though? What's
your question for us? Just to be an example to
them or what? Yeah, I think the, you know, I
like what you said earlier, Jose, because I think sometimes
we can.
You know, kind of wonder like, what does God want
from me, you know, and I think sometimes we can
confuse um like God, like specific call that he wants
(46:21):
for all Christians, and then what does that look like
for my life personally?
And sometimes we're looking at the Bible to give us
just kind of the personal details of it, but you
won't find that in the Bible. But what you will
find is that there's a roadmap for what it means
to be a disciple of Jesus, and that applies to
every single Christian. This is what God wants. God wants
(46:43):
you and I to follow Jesus. He wants us to
be with Jesus, it means we spend time in his word,
we study the life of Jesus.
You know, we're just kind of taking it in again
and again and again. I think we need to immerse
our lives in the story of the gospels.
We need to become like Jesus. We have to practice
Jesus's way of thinking, his way of living, his way
(47:04):
of kindness and forgiveness, and love, and sacrifice. We need
to practice those things, and then we need to do
what Jesus did, and that is the plan for every
single human, you know, every single Christian follow Jesus, that's
what God wants for us to practice the life of Jesus. Now,
the details of that, like,
Are you supposed to do that as a mechanic? Are
(47:26):
you supposed to do that as a pastor or as
a deacon, or as a school teacher, as a professor,
a doctor, I think you just have to look at
your own life and the opportunities that God has given you,
and not one of those vocations is better than another.
These are all ways that we are invited to live
(47:47):
out our discipleship to Jesus, right? Because people need to
see and experience the life of Jesus.
In all of these areas of life. And God has
created human, you know, creativity and the ability to make culture,
and we're to enter into culture and to redeem it
the way that, you know, God intended it to be,
(48:07):
to bring his love and forgiveness and his mercy to
these places. And so I think for your life, what
God wants for you is
To be a disciple of Jesus, and that your discipleship
to Jesus would just be an example to your family,
you know, whether they are Catholic or, you know, they're evangelical,
whatever that is, that, you know, I think for some
(48:28):
people who have grown up in the Roman Catholic Church,
you know, it's not that they, um, it's it's not
that Catholicism is false. I think that Catholicism has become
such a system.
That just the simplicity of Jesus and discipleship to Jesus
can get lost, and that can get lost in any system.
(48:50):
That can get lost in evangelicalism, right? That can get
lost as a Presbyterian or Orthodox, right? And so I
think for anybody who is part of the Christian faith,
we need to remember Jesus' original call is to follow
him and be his disciple. That's what he desires for
our lives.
Jose, thank you for your phone call on Pastor's perspective.
(49:12):
Vinny and Hemet, you're next. How can we help you today?
Uh, should I turn off my radio, please.
It's the only time you have permission to turn off
your radio.
Go ahead. What's your question, Vinny? OK, um.
(49:33):
Yeah, I just, I just wanted to um.
Can, can you hear me? Yes, yes, but we're running
out of time. Please get to your question. OK, we're
having trouble there. I don't think you turned off your radio,
but it looks like Vinny is wondering what Bible versus,
he thinks you're doing a good job on the question
of immigration, which we had earlier on the program. He's
(49:55):
wondering what Bible verses speak to the subject.
Yeah, I mean, as I mentioned earlier, I don't think they're,
you're not gonna, with the Bible, many times we are
kind of looking for a chapter and verse for current events,
you know, for our current politics, and I don't, we're
not gonna find that. The Bible is not this answer
(50:17):
book to all of our questions or all of
Our quandaries, but what we will find is we will
find a roadmap for what God desires for our life
as followers of Jesus. We will find God's story of salvation,
you know, as um the gospel say, we will find
the words of eternal life, words by which we can
(50:37):
be saved and redeemed. That's what we find in the scripture.
And then we find uh
A standard of righteousness, of justice, of how to live
as human beings, life as God intended it. And so
I think whenever we're looking at some of these cultural issues,
political issues, as followers of Jesus, we need to bring
those principles to bear on these things. Is this policy,
(51:03):
something that we as Christians, followers of Jesus, the one
who is all about mercy, justice, forgiveness, kindness, generosity,
Can we get on board with this? Or do we
have to protest and speak up for those who do
not have voice? Do we need to uh speak prophetically
(51:26):
to these situations about righteousness, justice, about what is right,
what is good, what uh makes for human flourishing. And so, again,
you won't find a, a scripture in verse that speaks
about
Immigration, and if you do, be careful because somebody is
doing some crazy gymnastics to find that some kind of,
(51:49):
you know, specific application for the current situation from the scripture,
but we do need to live by the principles that
Jesus laid out for us through his life. Vinny, thanks
for your phone call. Sorry that we couldn't actually speak
with you, but we hope that answers your question. Now,
let's go to Annette, who is in Moreno Valley via
Dana Point. What does that mean, Annette?
(52:12):
Well, uh, that just means that I'm driving with my
family and we're taking our twin, uh, grandsons to Dana Point. Oh, nice,
very nice. Moreno Valley. OK.
So how can we help you today?
Well, um, my question is, uh, in reference to Luke, uh,
(52:32):
chapter 21 verse 24, uh, about the, uh, the, uh,
the Gentiles, and so what does it mean, the, uh,
time of the Gentiles, what does that mean?
Yeah, that's a great question.
I mean, so the, yeah, the first part of this, right?
I mean, Jesus tells us this is about the
(52:56):
Destruction of the temple. This is about the scattering of
the people of Israel, and we know that this happened
in 18,070 under um
Under Titus, right, the temple being destroyed in Jerusalem, and
so the people are gonna be, you know, slain, they're
gonna be scattered, they're gonna be taking prisoners to all nations,
(53:18):
and then Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles
until the time of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
So, yeah, this term, um,
You mean some would say that this is kind of
the age that we are living in now. The time
of the Gentiles, some would interpret as this is the
(53:40):
time where the gospel is going to the Gentiles. Other
would see this as more of a negative thing, that
this is the time where, you know, the nations are
ruling over the land specifically of Israel, but then there's
gonna
a time where that's going to be overturned and the
land would be handed back to Israel and some would
see kind of the end of the Gentiles, um, the
time of the Gentiles would be, you know, um in
(54:03):
the late 40s when Israel became a nation again, and
so that that time has ended now. Um, so yeah,
there's kind of a few different opinions on it. I
take um
The former view of this, that this is a reference
to the time where the gospel is going to go
to the nations, and that's what Jesus is talking about.
(54:23):
And so there is a kind of um no longer
a focus on Israel after their rejection of Messiah, but
now the gospel goes also, doesn't stop going to Israel,
but now primarily goes to the Gentiles. Does this help
you on that?
Uh, yes, it does. It helps me a lot. Thank
(54:44):
you so much. Well, we thank you for calling in
today to Pastor's perspective, and we are just about out
of time. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Thanks for listening on the radio or on a podcast.
You can get it on Apple Podcasts or on iTunes.
If you were watching today on Facebook, YouTube or Instagram,
thank you so much. Remember that we also archive on
(55:05):
Facebook and You.
If you missed any portion of this or just want
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your friends. And on YouTube, make sure you like and
subscribe and click that little bell icon. You'll get notified
every time we do something live, which for sure is
every Monday through Friday at 3 p.m. Pacific time. God
bless you guys for Char Broderson, the lead pastor of
Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa. I'm Brian Perez, and we will
(55:27):
talk to you tomorrow on Pastor's Perspective.
Hey guys, welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez.
It is Monday, June 16th, and we are here live
until 4 o'clock to answer the questions you've got about
the Bible, Christian faith, maybe something you heard at church yesterday.
We'd love to hear from you at 888-564-6173. If you're
(00:37):
watching us on Facebook, YouTube, or Instagram, thank you for watching. We, uh,
Ask you if you have a question to call in
because we'd love to hear from you as well. 888-564-6173.
You can also send in your questions online if you'd like. There's, uh,
one way to do it is on, uh, Facebook Messenger,
the Pastor's perspective Facebook Messenger, or you can DM us
(00:59):
on the Pastor's perspective Instagram, or if you're watching on Facebook, YouTube,
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you click on that.
You, or if you scan that, I should say it'll
take you right to the page where you can ask
your question. But the best way to get an answer
is to call us at 888-564-6173. And sitting in the
(01:21):
studio with me today is Char Broderson, the senior pastor
of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa in Southern California. How you doing, Char?
I'm doing all right, Brian. Good. I'm, uh, we had
a couple work days this last week, not, you know,
just days where we're at work, but, you know, we're
doing physical labor, we're getting rid of just some old.
Uh, furniture on our property and then we had a
(01:43):
workday on our campus for volunteers, you know, in the
church and we ripped out a bunch of bushes and
just did all this manual labor.
So I'm tired. I'm like feeling it, you know, I
appreciate you coming in because, well, yeah, I mean, well,
it is my job. So there was that part of it.
But no, yeah, it's just been a
A long weekend. So yeah, I'm looking forward to my
(02:03):
next day off, which is not till Friday. Oh man, OK,
I'll make it. So easy questions only for Char today
so that he doesn't have to, uh, slow pitches only. Yes,
no Char can answer anything, so.
Uh, you got a call though, because we can't read
your mind. We don't know what you want to ask Char. 888-564-6173.
Here's a question that was sent in online on Facebook.
(02:25):
It's from Pam. Now, Pam sent this question in on Friday.
This past Friday was when this whole thing started between
Israel and Iran, uh, where Israel bombed Iran and then
Iran retaliated. So here's what Pam's question is, um, dear pastors,
before I heard any news this morning,
(02:46):
My devotions mentioned Micah 6:8. Parenthetically, I learned that verse
years ago, early in my Christian walk through an old
Maranatha music song. Since I heard the news about the
bombings of Iran by Israel, my heart has been rejoicing.
Pam says, am I in violation of that verse by
loving the justice of this action over the mercy I
(03:10):
should feel for those who lost their lives? I'm conflicted.
Can you please give me your perspective? Chart.
Yeah, I mean, in, in the context of Micah 6:8,
I mean, it, it's a question that the people of
Israel are asking, like, what is God actually looking for
among his people, you know, and right, the, the, what
(03:33):
they think God is looking for is sacrifices, is offerings, and,
you know, the, the prophet is making it clear. Actually
what God is looking for is right living.
He's looking for justice and mercy and humility. And so
the prophet, of course, is redirecting um God's people back
to his heart. Get beyond the religious regulation and observances
(03:56):
and actually get to the core of the matter, the
heart of the issue. And I think that Pam, you're
asking a really important question here because I think what
we can tend to do, uh, any people living at
any time and any place is that we can tend
to make our nation's enemies.
Our enemies. And I think as followers of Jesus, uh,
(04:19):
we are not allowed to see human beings as enemies,
we are to see them as those who've been made
in the image of God, those, uh, for whom Christ
has died, uh, for those for whom salvation is to
be brought to them, um, they're supposed to be recipients
of God's grace.
And I think Jesus is the one that redefines those things,
(04:42):
or not just even redefines, because that, you know, would
mean that the definitions were unclear to begin with. But
of course, Israel, as a nation in the Old Testament,
had lost their way. We've been actually looking at this
a lot um in our teachings on the gospel of Mark.
The, the nation of Israel had really by the time
of the first century become prejudiced and almost xenophobic or
(05:04):
against the other nations because they saw them as a
contaminant as those that were keeping them in exile and
keeping the judgment of God upon them. And so they
sought through going back to Levitical kind of holiness to
purify themselves so that God would, you know, send a
Messiah and the kingdom of God would come. And so,
You had all of this viewing of the nations, not
(05:25):
just as, you know, separate and, you know, distinct, but
actually as enemies.
And so, sometimes, you know, what Jesus is correcting in
the Gospels is this view of those outsiders, this view
of Gentiles as unclean, as vile, as a contaminant, and
he's actually redefining them as, no, these are people whom
(05:48):
God wants to reach. These are people whom God wants
to love. And so I think we really need to
take our walking orders from Jesus, and yes, to um
To love mercy, uh, to do justly, to walk humbly,
is one way, I think that we can live out
(06:08):
what Jesus taught in the sermon on the Mount, uh,
to be meek, to be, uh, peacemakers, to be those
who hunger and thirst for righteousness.
Uh, we even think about the heart of God and
the Old Testament. Remember there's that passage where God says,
I don't delight in the death of the wicked, but
my desire is actually that they would turn and that
(06:28):
they would change their ways. And so I think whenever
we hear of, you know, people dying, even if it
is a tyrant, I, I think I would just pause
if my heart is rejoicing over the death of anyone. I,
I might say, wow, OK, like there is justice that
happens in this world.
(06:49):
But I think to rejoice is, you know, maybe a
deeper issue of my own heart, you know, and I
think Pam's kind of onto something like, uh, should my
first instinct be mercy. Now, let me just say this.
Usually our first instincts aren't the right instincts, and I
think there's grace for that.
And I think Jesus wants to transform us by his spirit,
(07:12):
so that our first instincts, as we learn to walk
in His ways, would be those that would be in
step with his heart and in step with uh the
way of the Spirit. You know, of course, we can
read about the way of the Spirit at the end
of Galatians, right? It's love, joy, peace, kindness.
Uh, patience, self-control, I'm missing a few there, but, you know,
just the fruit of the spirit would be born in
(07:33):
our lives, in our responses, um, to justices, injustices, sin
and evil in the world that we would even respond.
Uh, in humility. Pam, thank you for sending in your
question on Facebook, and Marlene also sent a question about Israel, and, uh,
she did this by scanning on that QR code on Facebook,
(07:56):
YouTube or Instagram, or you can go to Kwave.com and
look for the pastor's perspective page, but Marlene.
Writes, whenever there's conflict in Israel, Ezekiel 38 and 39
are always talked about. When do these events take place?
Could they happen during the tribulation or the end of
the millennium? Yeah, it's a, it's a really good question.
It's interesting. You know, I, I, sometimes I'm just really
(08:20):
blown away by the way that the New Testament authors
saw the prophetic visions of the Old Testament coming to pass.
Um, and the reason I bring this up is because, uh,
Ezekiel 38 and 39 is sandwiched between two, just incredible visions.
One is in Ezekiel 37, a picture of the valley
(08:41):
of dry bones.
And it's this, uh, kind of rebirth, regathering of the
nation of Israel is what it seems to be, and
that God is gonna breathe new life into them. There's
gonna be this new work that happens. He's gonna, you know,
bring Israel from all over the nations and, um, yeah,
(09:01):
restore them. And then we have this passage in the
middle about this great war that's gonna happen.
And then what comes next is this vision of a
temple in the last days, and this temple's gonna be
unlike the temple of the Old Testament. Remember the temple
in the Old Testament, you had to do all of
these ceremonial cleansing and washings to come into the temple,
(09:24):
because if you were a contaminant, you would defile the temple.
But we see this reverse thing happening here, where living
water is coming from the temple, and instead, the temple
is making everything it touches clean.
Now,
The pro or excuse me, the New Testament authors believed
(09:45):
that this vision of the temple was fulfilled in and
through Jesus. This is what he's doing all throughout his ministry.
Everywhere he goes, he is the incarnate presence of God.
He's housing the living presence of God in his body,
and every
Where he goes, whoever he touches, he's not made unclean,
they are made whole. They are given life and healing
(10:07):
and salvation. And so the New Testament authors have seen
that Jesus is actually this fulfillment of the latter-day temple.
And so I, I just bring all this up just
to say, I think that this causes us to pause.
And just kind of wonder about uh our biblical interpretation
of passages. Where does this fit in our timeline and events?
(10:31):
You know, there would be some who would see, you know,
maybe a more of a pre pre millennial view, they
would see that there is this timeline, OK, Israel came
back and as a nation, state now, and so now
we're waiting for this great war and then, you know,
the tribulation and these things, and so we're kind of
looking at this timeline, but
For me, just as a student of the Bible, looking
(10:52):
at how Jesus fulfills so many of these Old Testament
passages just gives me pause from um
Some of these eschatological views and timelines, if this really
is what it is. So,
That is a long way to say. I don't really
know when this will happen, and I don't think anyone
(11:14):
really does. It's really a guessing game and depends on
your eschatological view. Marlene, thank you for sending in your
question through the Kwave.com pastor's perspective page, and now we're
gonna go to the phones. 888-564-6173 is our number, and, uh,
we're gonna get two questions here for the price of one.
(11:36):
Uh, Cindy and her grandson Oliver are on the phone.
Hi there. Welcome to Pastor's Perspective. Who wants to go first?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Oh, I'll start. This is, um, Grandma Cindy. And Oliver
asked so many awesome questions, but we had fun the
other day talking about heaven, and Oliver, he will ask you, um,
but to, to preface it, I didn't want to dampen
his thoughts about heaven by talking about yes or no
on the ocean. So, here, Ollie, it's your turn. Hi.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Hi, Ollie. How old are you?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
5.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
5.5. Awesome. Well, thanks for calling in today to be yes.
What did you want to know?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
What do you want?
Um, can you have a pet shark in heaven?
Speaker 1 (12:24):
You know, all the Bible doesn't talk about whether or
not we will have pets in heaven or not, but
sometimes when we talk about heaven, we think of it
as a different place, but what the Bible says is actually,
when God makes everything new, God's gonna bring heaven to earth.
(12:49):
And so when we think about our life with God
in God's kingdom, we need to picture the world in
which we live in now, that is just filled with animals,
that's filled with life and wonder and so much creativity
and beauty, that God's kingdom is gonna look like that,
but without any sorrow, without any pain, we won't have
(13:12):
any fear.
And so I believe that in God's kingdom, yeah, there
will be all kinds of pets. And actually, the Bible
talks about how in God's kingdom, there will be lions there,
there will be wolves, there will be snakes, there will
be all these kind of animals, and they're gonna live together,
and they're not gonna eat each other anymore, and even
(13:33):
little children won't have to be afraid of poisonous snakes
or of, you know, scavenging lions, but will actually be
able to play with them.
And so sharks aren't specifically mentioned in the Bible, but
these other animals are as being a part of God's
new kingdom that we are invited to be a part of.
(13:54):
Is that pretty exciting?
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Ollie, come back. He's listening. He's just running around. He's 52.
Yeah, your question, Ollie.
Um, how did God make such good peaches?
Speaker 1 (14:07):
That is a great question. I don't think we've ever
had that one before. Well, the one about sharks too,
but yeah, I think, you know what, Ollie, I think
the answer is, is because God is so good. I
think that's probably the only answer I can give. God
has made so many good things to eat and to
see and to hear, and just to experience because God
(14:31):
is so kind and he's so good, and these are
his gifts that he's given to us.
Ali, may you never lose that sense of wonder. I
mean to just bite into a peach and go, man, God,
this is awesome. How did you do this?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I mean.
Most of us
Speaker 1 (14:47):
just pick up food, put it in our mouth, and
we're done. But Ollie's actually thinking about it. Thank you
for calling in today, and Cindy, you as well on
Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173. Did you have another thought? Char? OK.
Speaking of peaches, right? Can we bring some peaches into
the studio? All right, Richard and Costa Mesa, welcome to
(15:08):
Pastor's Perspective.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
I, um, so first off, I, I brought up this
question last week, I think it was on Thursday, and
that was when, um, Brian and
Cheryl, is that right, Cheryl, it's your parents, right?
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yeah, those are my parents.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Yeah, right. Anyway, uh, they were the they were the
pastors that were speaking, and the question had to do with, uh,
my daughter just graduated from the school there at Calvary Chapel,
Costa Mesa, and she's 18 and she's probably gonna be
getting the job and I was teaching her about tithing.
And um it was a good conversation out of that
(15:49):
conversation came something else.
And now we are using a website called Charity Navigator
to find different ministries to give to. And the question
that I have is, what do you think is a, uh,
fair or godly amount that a ministry should pay their CEO?
(16:09):
And then secondly, what do you think is a wise
or godly amount that a ministry should spend on advertising?
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Oh, interesting.
Yeah, I mean, obviously, these are all things that are
just very contextual to where you live, right? I mean,
an amount, you know, in a place like Bangladesh compared
to an amount and, you know, what does it cost
to live in Southern California. I think about for, you know,
just somebody in my own position, right? I live here
in Southern California. I have a family, we're a family
(16:39):
of 5, and part of pastoral ministry is just hospitality,
you know, it's having people over.
Entertaining, and I don't mean like, you know, I just
mean like being a good host, right? Making people feel
comfortable and at home so that they can open up
about the difficulties that they're going through so that we
can care for them. And so, um, our church community
(16:59):
here pays me, um, you know, to be able to
do those things, to live in a way that is comfortable,
to serve our community, to I think to be equipped
to do what I've been called to do. And so,
I would say that I think it really, it needs
that kind of discernment. What is the role, uh, what
is this person being called to do? What are the
kind of outliers that we're not considering that are going
(17:21):
to be, you know, pain points, you know, um, are
they able to rest? Are they able to have that
kind of, um, you know, maybe they have vacation time,
are they able to actually even take the vacation? Can
they afford it? These are things that I would want
to consider for somebody in a role like that that's overseeing.
Uh, so many people, like a CEO or something like that.
And so, yeah, I just think that these are situations
(17:43):
where we have to take those biblical principles of generosity, um,
of care, you know, Jesus' principle, the golden rule, do
unto others as you would have them do, uh, unto you.
I don't think that anybody, uh, should be paid such
an extravagant amount, you know, it's just that, you know,
the people under them are suffering. I think those are
the most the things that we need to be considering
(18:04):
in these.
Instances, you know, what is just, what is equitable, um,
somebody who leads, uh, should be leading in the caring
for the community that they're overseeing. So they're, you know,
an example as well. So those would be things that
I would consider, um, in setting a salary for somebody
overseeing a ministry, CEO, um, and what have you.
(18:27):
You bring up a very good point too. We have
pastors who are maybe over a smaller congregation who maybe
can't afford to pay them, so they've got to go
work a regular 9 to 5 job during the week,
plus they're putting sermons together for Sundays and they're meeting
with people. What would you say about that? Yeah, I mean,
(18:48):
there's a whole
Yeah, ministry is a lifestyle job, right? There's just so
many um factors and, and, I mean, I, when I
was in Santa Rosa pastoring for 15 years there,
You know, there were seasoned. I literally wore every hat
in our church, you know, leading worship, um, organizing and
doing all the administration, um, payroll. I mean, you know,
(19:10):
I do everything because I was literally the sole employee
of the church. So, in those years, I was not
able to be compensated for what I was doing and yet,
you know, this was uh the ministry that God had
called me to and he provided for us in those areas.
I want to come back to the second question, um,
how much should
An organization spend on advertising. I imagine that you're talking
(19:32):
about a Christian organization, so I guess I'll speak to that.
Um
I don't, I mean, I guess I would just ask like, yeah,
what is the purpose of advertising for that organization, ministry, um,
you know, there's been questions around the he gets us campaign,
(19:54):
you know, and people criticizing like, man, think about how
much money was spent on the, the Super Bowl and
others are saying, well, you know, this is all this
money is an attempt to get the gospel out and
You know, people on this side and people on that
side disagreeing on these things, and I think at the
end of the day, I.
I think the most important part of an organization is
the people, right? The people that work, uh, within the organization,
(20:17):
and I think the quality of what you're gonna put
out is determined to what you put into that organization.
And one of our principles has been uh people first,
and it's been that the people that, you know, are
under us are really experiencing a culture of goodness.
And so, you know, any advertising or anything that we
do for our church, and that's actually very minimal besides,
(20:39):
you know, Google, Facebook, just search engines and things like that,
K wave and
You know, we're really trying to spend our money on
caring for our people, taking care of our uh local needs,
and we actually think that the the best uh advertising
for the church is actually the life health of the church, right?
(21:03):
It's the.
community itself that is going to be the best advertisement
for Jesus and for his kingdom, just the way that
we live, um, the way that we live with one another,
the way that we care for one another, the way
that we care for outsiders and our neighbors. So I
think those would be the things that I would be
more concerned about, uh, rather than the amounts.
(21:24):
With the he gets us campaign too, my thought was, OK,
if you don't like the way this organization is spending
all this money at the Super Bowl, just don't donate
towards it. But there are other people who might think differently,
and they think, yeah, it'll be great to have an
ad on the Super Bowl, so I'm gonna donate towards it,
but if you don't feel the same way, then just
don't give. Yeah, yeah, I think, I don't know, we
(21:44):
spent a lot of time criticizing.
Other Christians, rather than, you know, I think looking for
those opportunities of where we really do agree and where
we can just support or
Yeah, just kind of mind our own business.
Richard, thank you for your phone call today on Pastor's Perspective.
888-564-6173 is our number. We've got Pastor Char Broderson from
(22:09):
Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa here to answer your questions at 888-564-6173.
Now let's go to Danny, who's watching us on Facebook
in Covina. Welcome to Pastor's Perspective, Danny.
Hi, pastors, uh, this is sort of a follow up
of a question I had a couple weeks ago. Um,
(22:29):
After Moses, uh, in, uh, Exodus chapter 4, where God
had just told Moses to, um,
Go, go to Egypt.
Tell Pharaoh to to uh release my people, and then
later on next paragraph.
(22:51):
God was coming to kill Moses because his son was uncircumcised.
Uh, I was wondering, when God initially instituted that with
Abraham's circumcision,
All God said
So Abraham was
If somebody doesn't get circumcised, they're cut off from the covenant,
(23:13):
they're cut off from the people.
Did God have two different standards, one standard for Abraham
and one standard for Moses? Cause one, he said, you're
just cut off, the other one, you pay for your life. Yeah.
Yeah, some have looked at the the actual term there
(23:33):
that's used, and this is actually used all throughout the
um mosaic law as well, this term of being cut off,
that this is actually um another term for death or
the death penalty. So it's probably more than just being, um,
you know,
Pushed out of the community of the redeemed. Uh, it's
(23:55):
probably more serious than that, and I think we see
that even here in this story with Moses. And the
big issue here is that this is God's one.
Sign of covenant with his people. So if you have this,
you're in, if you don't, you're out, and God is
sending his spokesperson, his representative to lead his people out,
(24:18):
and Moses has not even taken care of his own house.
Those in his own house are not dedicated and in
covenant with Yahweh at this point. And so this is
why this, you know,
The seriousness of this situation here.
Does that help you, Danny? He was, he was brought
(24:39):
up as, uh, an Egyptian.
So, does God curse ignorance?
No, so, uh, even though Moses is brought up as
an Egyptian, you know, we know, um, specifically from, remember
Stephen's speech in Act 7?
I mean, it clearly shows us Moses is not ignorant
(24:59):
concerning the things of God. He is actually well versed,
and he understands at 40 years old, that it's time
for him to join the people of God, and he
is somehow supposed to play a part in rescuing them
and bringing them out of slavery. Now, of course, he
takes matters into his own hands, we know the story.
But Israel, I mean, excuse me, Moses, yet he is informed.
(25:22):
He's most likely taught in these things and also taught
in all the wisdom of the Egyptians.
So I do, I do not believe that we should
see Moses as being somebody who is ignorant. I mean,
And again, you know, we know from God's own self-revelation.
God's gracious, compassionate, slow to anger, abounding and steadfast love,
(25:45):
God has mercy on ignorance, right? That's not the kind
of being that we're dealing with. And so these stories
that are recorded here when God is, you know, making
a big deal of these things, we need to focus
in on the why, right? God isn't just saying, hey,
you're ignorant and now you're gonna punish for be punished
for it.
(26:06):
Uh, God is taking Moses to task because he knew
that his household should be dedicated to the Lord.
OK, Danny?
Yeah, it was just that a lot of people were
punished even before the law was written.
Breaking items that were part of the law later on, like, uh,
(26:30):
thou shalt not kill. It wasn't in
The law, but Cain did it. He killed somebody and
he was punished. Was was he punished for it?
Uh, he was
Exiled from the rest of the people, yeah, but he's
not punished according to the Mosaic law, because the punishment
(26:51):
according to the Mosaic law is death, and so God
actually has mercy on him and puts a mark of
protection on Cain.
Oh yes, that's true, yes, yes.
Yeah, you know, it's a great, um, Danny, a great
book uh written by
Oh, I'm gonna blink on the name all of a sudden,
but uh the book is called Echoes of Exodus.
(27:14):
And it's very insightful showing how the Bible's actually telling
uh the exodus story again and again and again, that
the authors of the Bible um are continually kind of
taking this as the great story of the Bible, and
they kind of use this as a theme again and again.
And so you can actually see in
(27:36):
Um, even early in the exodus, before the actual exodus happens,
that there are these things that Moses is doing, that
are actually
Um, predicting, as it were, the exodus. So, Moses actually
goes through his own series of exoduses before he will
(27:57):
bring the people out in the capital E Exodus. It's
a really helpful book, I think for understanding some of
these stories and patterns that we see within the Old Testament.
So just recommended uh reading if you
Like a follow up. Sounds like a good one. Echoes
of Exodus tracing themes of redemption through Scripture. It's by
(28:17):
Alastair Roberts. Might want to check that out wherever you
get your books. All right, uh, Danny, thank you for
your phone call today on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is the
number to call. The music's gonna start any second now,
so I won't take another question or read something else
from Facebook that was sent in.
Because we're gonna go to break, but we welcome you
(28:38):
to call in. We're gonna be here for the next
half hour answering questions you might have about the Bible,
the Christian faith. You've heard some of the questions we've
had so far, everything from, uh, peaches to sharks to circumcision.
We talk about it all here on Bastard's perspective, apparently, yes.
888-564-6173 is the number.
(29:00):
And, uh, we've got Char Broderson, the lead pastor at
Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa here to answer your questions. Don't
forget you can catch up on Char's Sunday morning messages
in case you weren't at church here yesterday or weren't
able to listen on the radio. They're all archived on
the Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa website, CCCM.com. Your phone calls
(29:20):
coming up at 888-564-6173.
(30:18):
Hey, welcome back to Pastor's Perspective. I'm Brian Perez here
with Char Broderson, the lead pastor at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, 888-564-6173.
That's the number to call for the next 25 minutes
or so. You can also send in your questions online,
but we so like to talk to you. So call 888-564-6173.
(30:40):
That's what Kevin did from Temecula. He's on the phone
with us now. What is your question for Char Broderson, Kevin?
Hello, hello. Um, yeah, uh, my question was, um, what's the, uh, um,
biblical perspective of, um, the deportation of undocumented migrants? Sure.
(31:02):
Yeah, I mean,
There is, I mean, strictly, there is no biblical perspective
on this, right?
Like, um.
You know, we see like in the New Testament, right,
the the, I think one example would be the Roman Empire, right?
There's a census that's given that all the world should
be taxed, we're told by Luke. And so, the Jews
(31:24):
are subject to the rule of Caesar, and so they
fall in line, and they go to the cities where
they were born and they register so that taxation can happen.
They didn't like it, but this was the law of
the land, and so, you know, they do what's required.
Um, I think, you know, when I'm kind of looking
at what's going on right now, I think right, our,
(31:44):
our nation and the laws that we make, we have
the rights, uh, as a nation state to, you know,
create immigration laws and then to, um, enforce those. I
think the deeper issue that we should be concerned about
is the way in which they are being done, and
are they being done in a way that is inhumane?
Um, and destructive and actually creating more chaos, more fear, uh,
(32:10):
in our state. Is this actually making us better as
human beings? Is this actually making us worse and more animalistic?
And I mean, I've seen some footage that just is
heartbreaking in the way that human beings are being treated,
the way that they're being ripped away from their families.
And to me, I think, man, there's got to be
a better way.
Uh, in the way that our government is going about this.
(32:31):
And I think whatever side, you know, you're on and
the issue and whether it should be done or shouldn't
be done, I think as followers of Jesus, we could
all say this can and should be done better in
a way that is humanizing in a way that is
caring for these individuals. So, I think that would be
the closest I could come to a biblical perspective on
(32:52):
these things. What do you think Kevin?
Yeah, I think that's great. Yeah, I uh I agree
with that and um.
Um, yeah, you know.
Only, uh, only Jesus, the king of kings, he can
make things right.
Yeah, I mean, ultimately, I think that's true. I think also,
you know, human beings, God expects human beings to do
(33:14):
what is right, to do what is just and when
we don't, there are, you know, not just consequences to
those things, but oftentimes too, you know, for nation states,
there is judgment that comes from God and so.
You know, think about like the, the kings of Israel
and even what God, you know, prophesized through the prophets
about the surrounding nations and the injustices that they do
(33:35):
and perform. God actually holds them to account. And so, yes, 100%,
we are waiting for the kingdom of God to come,
and yet I do think there is a prophetic voice
that the church can play in calling our leaders to
do what is right.
Kevin, thank you for calling us today on Pastor's Perspective. Robin,
you're next, but first I want to read a question
(33:55):
that was sent in online. It's from Cathy. And here's
Cathy's question. I was listening to your program from May
21st about some fella's gay family, says Cathy. My question is,
why do you question the salvation of LGBT people if
they haven't repented from that sin?
But never question the obese person who continues the sin
(34:17):
of gluttony or the many couples that have divorced because
of irreconcilable differences and gone on to remarry but are
never confronted by their sin of adultery. Don't you believe
what the Bible says about divorce only when there is
sexual infidelity or or abandonment, Full stop. Are they really
Christians if they don't repent from their adultery, divorce their
(34:37):
current spouse, and live the rest of their lives in celibacy?
That's what you expect gays to do to, quote unquote,
show they are repentant. I grow weary of the hypocrisy
and the lame answers I get when I ask this question.
I hope you can do better. No pressure. LOL, Cathy, Char,
what do you say to Cathy? Well, yeah, I mean,
(34:57):
I wasn't here on Wednesday, um, I'm not really sure
what the question was or the issue was, but yeah,
I mean, I'll just say, I do think that the church, um,
For some time has really heavily focused on uh sexual sin.
Uh, specifically, you know, targeting the LGBT community, the way
(35:20):
Cathy pointed out.
To the neglect of talking about other sins, other ways,
you know, that um
You know, God would say, this is not what I
actually mean for humanity. This will not lead to your
flourishing and your thriving, right? We believe that God's instruction
is for our good, for our benefit, and I think
as followers of Jesus, we want to look at anything, um,
(35:43):
any kind of lifestyle that is destructive to human flourishing, um,
as something that we should turn from. That's what the
word repent means. Um.
And I, you know, would say I try to be
consistent with that in my preaching and in my pastoring,
but I think at the same time, there is just
a reality that we live in a broken world, and
(36:06):
people need lots of grace and lots of time because
change is really difficult, even by the power of the
Holy Spirit at work in us, you know, to actually
change our
Behavior, uh, to begin to do the things instinctually that
the spirit desires in our lives takes time, right? And so,
(36:29):
you know, we come to Jesus and we've got lives
that are just full of confusion, uh, sometimes just full
of sin, and thank God, Jesus accepts us as we are.
And he doesn't say, full stop, that's it, you know,
you gotta turn away from all this, or you cannot
(36:50):
be a part of my kingdom, but he says, come
and follow me. That's what he says. You think about,
you know,
We're all gonna have to turn from certain things that
we are trusting in, relying on, addicted to, in order
to follow Jesus. And those will be different in my
life than in your life, Brian, or different in Cathy's
(37:12):
life or this individual. But the real, you know, rub
of it is, Jesus calls us to follow him, and
he's the one that tells us what doesn't fit that discipleship,
you know, and so I think
You know, as followers of Jesus, we need to be
very clear about that. We need to just come back
to Jesus and his standard of living, his standard of righteousness,
(37:33):
his standard of goodness, his standard of purity as our
standard of living, and then apply that to one another
with grace, not saying like, hey, this is the bar,
and if you don't measure up, you're out, but just saying, hey,
we are all striving for this kind of life in Jesus,
let's walk together.
(37:54):
Cathy, thank you for sending in your question through the
Kwave.com pastor's perspective page. And now let's go to Robin
in Murrieta, as promised. Robin is listening on the Kwave app,
and she called in 888-564-6173. How can we help you, Robin?
Um, hi, thank you for taking my call. Yeah, you bet.
(38:15):
How can we help you?
Well, I, I have a question that um I was
thinking about as I was reading um the Bible, and
um my question is, is that when um the Lord
told uh Adam and Eve.
That they could eat from anything in the garden, but
(38:36):
except for the tree in the middle of the garden
and not to eat the fruit, otherwise they would surely die.
My question is, and I just want your perspective on how,
how did they
Or did they know, uh, understand what death meant to
die meant, um, did they, did they understand, um, what
(39:00):
that would mean? Um, just, it's just something I, I
thought about, um, and wanted to get your
Perspective on that. Yeah, I mean, it's a great question too, right?
Because yeah, if sin has not yet entered the world and,
you know, from our understanding, no death has occurred yet.
I mean, like, what does that even mean, right? Dying?
(39:22):
What are you talking about? I think first and foremost,
we're going to, um, as those right who believe the
God of the Bible is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger,
abounding and steadfast love that he, you know, he's a
God of mercy, he's a God that
You know, humbles himself to our level to communicate with us,
you know, like, this is an incredible being. We're gonna
(39:43):
give God the benefit of the doubt, that he's not
just speaking over Adam and Eve's head.
And they're like, oh we didn't know. Like, what's this
whole death thing? I think what they do know, they
do understand the offer on hand.
And the offer is from God. God is inviting Adam
and Eve to learn.
(40:05):
Wisdom
The discerning of good and evil from him.
And not to short circuit the process and take it
from this tree.
So basically they have, you know, kind of like what
we read in um
Psalm 1, right? Psalm 1 and Psalm 2.
We have in Psalm one, the way of the righteous
(40:27):
who meditates on God's law, and through that meditation, they
become somebody who is just so grounded that all the
various seasons of life basically bring no lasting effect on them.
They're rooted and bear fruit in every season. And in
Psalm 2, you have a different kind of meditation.
Where there are certain people who are, same word that's used,
(40:49):
meditating on how to overthrow God in His kingdom, how
to do it their own way, Frank Sinatra style, right?
Um, and so this is what wisdom literature does, is
it presents two paths before us, a path of wisdom
and a path of folly. And I think what we
need to see right here in the pages of Genesis
chapter 2, is that these two ways are presented before
(41:13):
Adam and Eve. There is the way of Yahweh.
To rule with him, to um have dominion over, you know,
the beasts of the field, the birds of the sky,
the birds of the sea, to take the borders of
the garden and to spread it to the ends of
the earth, be fruitful and multiply, subdue the earth. This
(41:34):
is what God is inviting them to do.
And then there is this other option before them. Instead,
they can choose the tree of knowledge, both good and evil,
and like the serpent suggests to them, you can be
like God. You don't need this process, you don't need
(41:54):
this apprenticeship. God is withholding from you and keeping you
from this, and so they short circuit the process and
take from the tree, eat of it, and then, you know,
the ensuing consequences.
So, I bring all that up because I think Adam
and Eve knew clearly what God was asking of them.
(42:15):
Right, Adam willfully transgressed, where Eve was deceived, you know,
we're told. And so whether or not they fully understood,
I mean, you know, just as you're asking the question,
I don't fully understand the concept of death.
That I will take a final breath or something, right?
You know what happened, and I will cease to exist
as I do now, that does not compute for me.
(42:38):
I've seen it happen to others, and still it's beyond
my understanding that this person's gone. So I, you know,
like you're saying, I mean, just imagine being in their shoes.
I don't think they fully understood even as we don't
fully understand as living beings currently, but I think they
did understand what God was instructing them to do and
(43:01):
not to do. And so God holds them responsible for
that and also
God follows them and all the consequences of that, you know,
they're banned from the garden and then God follows them
out of the garden and promises them redemption and salvation.
I mean, it's incredible, God's grace, that even though, you know,
humanity sinned against him, he didn't give up on humanity.
(43:23):
What do you think, Robin?
Yeah, no, that makes sense and that that.
That helps a lot. Um, you know, I, I think that, uh,
even though they didn't understand exactly what that meant, um,
they knew that
(43:44):
Uh, it was a consequence that they, they, they wouldn't
want to have, um, even though, you know, I mean.
I suppose like, like we all deal with every day.
But yeah, so that, no, that helps. I, I just,
I was thinking about it and I was kind of
intrigued by the thought of, you know, I wonder what
(44:06):
they were thinking. Yeah, for sure.
All right, well, thank you for your phone call today
here on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is our number. You've got
a few minutes left to call us here and ask
Char Broderson your question. Here is Jose in Colton. You
are up next. How can we help you, Jose?
Yeah, how you doing, man? I, I listened to you
(44:27):
guys on the, on the application K wave, and, uh,
my question was, uh, you know.
Uh, according to Romans 81, we no longer have to
be condemned because the Bible says we're in Christ, right? Yeah.
And then, uh, you know, we can never lose our
salvation as long as we abide in Christ.
(44:52):
Yep, that's right. That is not that God says that
he hasn't appointed us on to rest, but onto salvation,
you know. Yeah, through Jesus Christ, that's right.
Yes, and, uh, you know, I was just wondering, uh,
you know, you know what's uh, you don't, I don't
necessarily have to be uh in the ministry or be
(45:12):
a pastor, just, uh, a spiritual household man of uh.
All the family, you know, and it's hard because all
my family is Catholic, you know, and I came also
from the Catholic family. I did the whole enchilada confirmation
and communion and but I never learned nothing, you know,
until I, until the spirit of God, you know, called
(45:35):
me and found me, you know. Yeah OK.
Because I was looking for him and uh I did
attend West Covina Calvary Chapel and uh went to Bible
school for pastoral epistles and uh church history and eschatology
things to come.
And uh from my own personal that you use so
I can give an answer to every event for the
hope that is in me, you know. Mhm.
(45:58):
So what did you want to know today though? What's
your question for us? Just to be an example to
them or what? Yeah, I think the, you know, I
like what you said earlier, Jose, because I think sometimes
we can.
You know, kind of wonder like, what does God want
from me, you know, and I think sometimes we can
confuse um like God, like specific call that he wants
(46:21):
for all Christians, and then what does that look like
for my life personally?
And sometimes we're looking at the Bible to give us
just kind of the personal details of it, but you
won't find that in the Bible. But what you will
find is that there's a roadmap for what it means
to be a disciple of Jesus, and that applies to
every single Christian. This is what God wants. God wants
(46:43):
you and I to follow Jesus. He wants us to
be with Jesus, it means we spend time in his word,
we study the life of Jesus.
You know, we're just kind of taking it in again
and again and again. I think we need to immerse
our lives in the story of the gospels.
We need to become like Jesus. We have to practice
Jesus's way of thinking, his way of living, his way
(47:04):
of kindness and forgiveness, and love, and sacrifice. We need
to practice those things, and then we need to do
what Jesus did, and that is the plan for every
single human, you know, every single Christian follow Jesus, that's
what God wants for us to practice the life of Jesus. Now,
the details of that, like,
Are you supposed to do that as a mechanic? Are
(47:26):
you supposed to do that as a pastor or as
a deacon, or as a school teacher, as a professor,
a doctor, I think you just have to look at
your own life and the opportunities that God has given you,
and not one of those vocations is better than another.
These are all ways that we are invited to live
(47:47):
out our discipleship to Jesus, right? Because people need to
see and experience the life of Jesus.
In all of these areas of life. And God has
created human, you know, creativity and the ability to make culture,
and we're to enter into culture and to redeem it
the way that, you know, God intended it to be,
(48:07):
to bring his love and forgiveness and his mercy to
these places. And so I think for your life, what
God wants for you is
To be a disciple of Jesus, and that your discipleship
to Jesus would just be an example to your family,
you know, whether they are Catholic or, you know, they're evangelical,
whatever that is, that, you know, I think for some
(48:28):
people who have grown up in the Roman Catholic Church,
you know, it's not that they, um, it's it's not
that Catholicism is false. I think that Catholicism has become
such a system.
That just the simplicity of Jesus and discipleship to Jesus
can get lost, and that can get lost in any system.
(48:50):
That can get lost in evangelicalism, right? That can get
lost as a Presbyterian or Orthodox, right? And so I
think for anybody who is part of the Christian faith,
we need to remember Jesus' original call is to follow
him and be his disciple. That's what he desires for
our lives.
Jose, thank you for your phone call on Pastor's perspective.
(49:12):
Vinny and Hemet, you're next. How can we help you today?
Uh, should I turn off my radio, please.
It's the only time you have permission to turn off
your radio.
Go ahead. What's your question, Vinny? OK, um.
(49:33):
Yeah, I just, I just wanted to um.
Can, can you hear me? Yes, yes, but we're running
out of time. Please get to your question. OK, we're
having trouble there. I don't think you turned off your radio,
but it looks like Vinny is wondering what Bible versus,
he thinks you're doing a good job on the question
of immigration, which we had earlier on the program. He's
(49:55):
wondering what Bible verses speak to the subject.
Yeah, I mean, as I mentioned earlier, I don't think they're,
you're not gonna, with the Bible, many times we are
kind of looking for a chapter and verse for current events,
you know, for our current politics, and I don't, we're
not gonna find that. The Bible is not this answer
(50:17):
book to all of our questions or all of
Our quandaries, but what we will find is we will
find a roadmap for what God desires for our life
as followers of Jesus. We will find God's story of salvation,
you know, as um the gospel say, we will find
the words of eternal life, words by which we can
(50:37):
be saved and redeemed. That's what we find in the scripture.
And then we find uh
A standard of righteousness, of justice, of how to live
as human beings, life as God intended it. And so
I think whenever we're looking at some of these cultural issues,
political issues, as followers of Jesus, we need to bring
those principles to bear on these things. Is this policy,
(51:03):
something that we as Christians, followers of Jesus, the one
who is all about mercy, justice, forgiveness, kindness, generosity,
Can we get on board with this? Or do we
have to protest and speak up for those who do
not have voice? Do we need to uh speak prophetically
(51:26):
to these situations about righteousness, justice, about what is right,
what is good, what uh makes for human flourishing. And so, again,
you won't find a, a scripture in verse that speaks
about
Immigration, and if you do, be careful because somebody is
doing some crazy gymnastics to find that some kind of,
(51:49):
you know, specific application for the current situation from the scripture,
but we do need to live by the principles that
Jesus laid out for us through his life. Vinny, thanks
for your phone call. Sorry that we couldn't actually speak
with you, but we hope that answers your question. Now,
let's go to Annette, who is in Moreno Valley via
Dana Point. What does that mean, Annette?
(52:12):
Well, uh, that just means that I'm driving with my
family and we're taking our twin, uh, grandsons to Dana Point. Oh, nice,
very nice. Moreno Valley. OK.
So how can we help you today?
Well, um, my question is, uh, in reference to Luke, uh,
(52:32):
chapter 21 verse 24, uh, about the, uh, the, uh,
the Gentiles, and so what does it mean, the, uh,
time of the Gentiles, what does that mean?
Yeah, that's a great question.
I mean, so the, yeah, the first part of this, right?
I mean, Jesus tells us this is about the
(52:56):
Destruction of the temple. This is about the scattering of
the people of Israel, and we know that this happened
in 18,070 under um
Under Titus, right, the temple being destroyed in Jerusalem, and
so the people are gonna be, you know, slain, they're
gonna be scattered, they're gonna be taking prisoners to all nations,
(53:18):
and then Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles
until the time of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
So, yeah, this term, um,
You mean some would say that this is kind of
the age that we are living in now. The time
of the Gentiles, some would interpret as this is the
(53:40):
time where the gospel is going to the Gentiles. Other
would see this as more of a negative thing, that
this is the time where, you know, the nations are
ruling over the land specifically of Israel, but then there's
gonna
a time where that's going to be overturned and the
land would be handed back to Israel and some would
see kind of the end of the Gentiles, um, the
time of the Gentiles would be, you know, um in
(54:03):
the late 40s when Israel became a nation again, and
so that that time has ended now. Um, so yeah,
there's kind of a few different opinions on it. I
take um
The former view of this, that this is a reference
to the time where the gospel is going to go
to the nations, and that's what Jesus is talking about.
(54:23):
And so there is a kind of um no longer
a focus on Israel after their rejection of Messiah, but
now the gospel goes also, doesn't stop going to Israel,
but now primarily goes to the Gentiles. Does this help
you on that?
Uh, yes, it does. It helps me a lot. Thank
(54:44):
you so much. Well, we thank you for calling in
today to Pastor's perspective, and we are just about out
of time. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Thanks for listening on the radio or on a podcast.
You can get it on Apple Podcasts or on iTunes.
If you were watching today on Facebook, YouTube or Instagram,
thank you so much. Remember that we also archive on
(55:05):
Facebook and You.
If you missed any portion of this or just want
to hear it again or want to share it with
your friends. And on YouTube, make sure you like and
subscribe and click that little bell icon. You'll get notified
every time we do something live, which for sure is
every Monday through Friday at 3 p.m. Pacific time. God
bless you guys for Char Broderson, the lead pastor of
Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa. I'm Brian Perez, and we will
(55:27):
talk to you tomorrow on Pastor's Perspective.
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