June 23, 2025 • 56 mins
Pastors' Perspective is a one-hour call-in program where listeners can call in and get answers to questions about the Bible, Christianity, family, and life. The program is live Monday through Friday from 3:00 PM - 4:00 PM Pacific. You can call 888-564-6173 to ask your questions.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:18):
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez.
It's Thursday, the 19th of June, and we are here
live until 4 o'clock to answer the questions you've got
about the Bible, the Christian faith, just about anything that's
on your mind. Grab an open line. We'd love to
talk to you at.
888-564-6173-888-564-6173. We've also got ways for you to send your
(00:42):
questions in online so that we can read them here
and answer them, but the best way to get an
answer is for you guys to call us. Pastor Brian's
taking selfies over there, Better wave at, uh, Pastor Brian's camera, um.
888-564-6173 is the number. And yeah, we've got Pastor Brian
Broderson from Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa. He's here in the studio. And, uh,
(01:06):
so is Phil Metzger, who made the trip up from Calvary,
San Diego. Good to have Phil in the studio here.
and author and apologist Doctor Bobby Conway, the pastor of
Image Church in Charlotte, North Carolina, did not fly over
here to, uh, join us, but, uh, he's there on camera.
Hi there, Bobby.
Hey, how you guys doing? All right. Good to see you, Bobby. Yes, I, uh, I'm,
(01:30):
I don't know if I can see you guys. Uh, I,
I think that they need to turn the screen on, but, um,
I can hear you. It's good to hear you. Well,
we can see you. We can see you, we can see.
All right. You look great radio style. It is radio, right?
That's right. That's right, the old fashioned way, and we
liked it.
(01:50):
888-564-6173 is the number to call us today, and uh
like I said, you can send your questions in online
as well. In fact, uh we'll start with one of
those questions that was sent in online. This is from Mario.
The people of Israel grumble and complain to God about
not having meat in the deserts. When Israel left Egypt,
(02:11):
they had plenty of animals because of being shepherds and
bred due to the Passover happening right before they left.
Each time they sacrificed for the different offering, they had
a total of each tribe.
The total seemed to be a large quantity of 24 bulls,
60 rams, 60 goats, etc. It seems they have a
lot of cattle, and since the sacrifices are required to
be a 1 year old without defect, that means the
(02:32):
livestock are reproducing.
This would mean there would be plenty of other non-sacrificed
food to eat. The Bible also mentions grain offerings with
flour and oil, which makes me think they are able
to make breads and different types of food. God also
gave them manna to eat each morning. So how did
the people say they that they don't have meat when
they seem to be surrounded by food? Phil?
(02:56):
Well, and Mario did his math and he's got his
numbers and so, good job, Mario, I I I I
don't know. I'm gonna guess your numbers are right. Well,
so let me just use it kind of in modern
terms and then also kind of it'll make sense there,
food insecurity isn't the same as no food at all,
so the the the the idea here is like, yes
(03:18):
they had livestock, yes they had grain, yes they had
these things.
But they could all be gone so quickly if they
had to begin to use all of that. So there
was no guarantee that's what food insecurity is. It's not
that I don't have the food for this meal, but
that if I, if one thing goes wrong, all the
dominoes are gonna start falling and it's gonna impact every
(03:39):
part of our society. So there is that insecurity of
if that happens, we're doomed.
God's provision is to say, I am not expecting you
to live trusting that if one thing bad happens, everything
bad is gonna happen, but I'm trusting you to believe
that I'm going to meet you every single day. I'm
going to provide for you. So.
(04:00):
There really was in a sense no way of guaranteeing
that what they had would have been enough for all
of them. Yes, animals would have been born, yes, they
could grow, you know, kind of grow things here and there, wild,
they could pick things they could do that, but it
would have been gone so quick, so they were right
in saying, hey, we don't, we don't have enough and
that's kind of what food insecurity is, right? It's not
(04:21):
that I don't have a meal, it's that if something
goes wrong, the meals that I have may not be enough. Yeah.
Well, Phil, that was an absolutely brilliant answer. I just,
that's why he's Doctor Phil. Yeah, you know, before he
had the doctor attached to his name, I don't know
if he could have given it. My answers were lame.
(04:43):
So that is so good. Food insecurity. I never, I
never really thought about that, but the funny thing is
I actually read that story.
Today in numbers. And it's the place, you know, where
the people were crying, uh, they were really complaining in
a in a lot of ways too about the type
of food like back in Egypt we had melons and
we had leeks and we had onions and we had garlic,
(05:06):
and now we just have this miserable, what is this
stuff anyway, manna.
Um, and they were complaining about that. So, you know,
the Lord says, OK, you want meat, I'll give you meat,
not for a day or a week or, uh, two weeks.
I'm gonna give it to you for 30 days straight
and
And then, you know, that's when uh it says as
(05:28):
the flesh was still in their teeth, uh, the judgment
of God came upon them and it was because they
were just.
I think the other thing is they're, they've just exaggerated
the problem to a point, and they're just filled with
this deep lust because they end up, many people end
up dying there, and the name of the place from
(05:48):
that point on is called The Graves of Lust. So
it was their own lust that brought the, the judgment
on them. So, but, um, I wouldn't dare try to
add anything else to that brilliant answer. What about the
other doctor, Bobby Con?
I'm laughing. Brian says, I dare, I wouldn't dare try
(06:08):
to add anything to it, and he just added a
lot of great stuff. So, well, no, I said it
after I add it, and I, I mean I'm not
gonna add any more with his edition. It was enough. Well,
you guys are killing it. Um, uh, yeah, I definitely
think this is a discontentment issue. They would have had
maybe access to other things in Egypt that they didn't have,
(06:30):
as you guys said.
So it's a hard issue. Uh, they were provided on
a daily basis, and even though they would have herds
for the sacrifices, all of those sacrifices weren't meals that
would be communal, and, uh, not only that, uh, they
would have cattle, but it just because you had the
cattle didn't mean that they could killed all and eat it.
(06:52):
They had to preserve it so that they would have sacrifices. So, uh.
Given the amount of sacrifices that they had and uh
knowing that they would have to preserve livestock so that
they could have future sacrifices, and knowing that God already
set their diet for them and that all just makes
sense of the passage to me as well.
(07:14):
Very good, Mario, thank you for, oh, go ahead, Brian.
You know, one other thought. I'm not adding to who's
adding right now. This is an addition. I don't add
to scripture. It's an addendum. But again, because I just
read it, you know, a couple of hours ago, it's
so interesting where Moses says, I have 600,000 ft soldiers.
(07:34):
Where am I going to get food for these people?
Uh, who are, you know, telling me they want want food,
but I think that number is so radical, 600,000, which
shows us that the number of people that came out
of Egypt was well over a million, uh, probably 2 million.
That's fighting age men, right? That's incredible, yeah.
(07:55):
Mario, thank you for sending in your question online through kwave.com.
888-564-6173 is the number you can call to ask your questions.
And here's another one from, uh, this one's from Instagram. Actually,
Naomi wants to know if she can marry a Mormon
as a Christian. If not, what's the difference between the two? So,
(08:18):
Naomi's a Christian, her fiance or her boyfriend is a Mormon,
and she's wondering,
Is there a difference between the two? Bobby Conway would
say you.
Oh, there's a massive difference. I mean, number one, you know,
Mormonism uses the same types of terms that we use, uh,
but they mean different things. So, uh, when a Mormon
(08:41):
talks about believing that in God is a trinity, they also,
and sometimes Mormons might even be listening to the show
and then they'll try to say, well, no, this is
not what we believe, and I'm going, hey, if somebody
wants to call up, we can start reading quotes from
Uh, Brigham Young and Joseph Smith, uh, you know, there
was this idea that they believed that, you know, that
(09:02):
they could become gods. And so the upper echelon of
the Mormon leadership.
Uh, if they're holding true to the teachings, uh, they
actually believe that they can become gods, have their own
planet someday. Uh, women could be eternally pregnant. Uh, that
those are things that we don't talk about as much anymore,
(09:23):
but that's all part of some of the early apologetics
that was done with Mormonism. They believe in extra books
of the Bible, doctrines and covenants, Pearl of Great Price, uh,
the Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith has been clearly shown
to be a fraud.
Uh, and, uh, we also know archaeologically speaking that the
place is talked about in the Book of Mormon. There's
(09:44):
no evidence whatsoever, and even modern day DNA evidence has
shown that it's, uh, there's no proof, whereas when you
look at the Bible, you can go and see these places.
So that's really problematic. Uh, when it comes to salvation.
They'll say they're saved by grace, but what they really
mean is they're, they begin by grace, but then they
have to do good works. Uh, they, uh, so they
(10:07):
believe in extra books of the Bible. They don't believe
in the Trinity as we do. Uh, they believe that
they can achieve God's godhood someday. Uh, they believe that,
you know, God the Father impregnated, uh, to create, uh,
you know, the, the
Um, to create, you know, the whole human experience, which
(10:29):
is a problem, uh, picturing gods, they, they take God
as literal, uh, corporeal, bodily, uh, because they see him
like walking in the garden, so they, they see a
physical aspect to God, uh, and they believe that just as, um,
you know.
Just as God is now, we can become like that,
(10:49):
and that's really problematic. So you're believing in a workspace salvation,
a heresy about who God is, extra books of the
Bible where it says don't add a founder that was erroneous,
and yet they're very nice people. It has nothing to
do with the people that believe in Mormonism.
They're nice people. They share a lot of things that
(11:10):
in common with us our values, um, uh, uh, a
passion for marriage, uh, but I think that the, the
idea of marriage, they believe that it can go on.
So I would say that you would be unequally yoked
and you're gonna run into a lot of problems and.
That's an unfortunate thing, but hopefully it's just sharing with
(11:30):
you the truth of what we believe as Christians. And
I would think too, if they had children, are they
going to be raised as Mormon or as Christian? I mean,
that adds to the dynamic too. and that's the dynamic
so many couples have, but that's a going, yeah, Bobby,
first of all, that was awesome.
That was a very like yeah, I mean, you know,
I've got a lot more that I could add to it,
(11:52):
but it was a great no no no thank you. No, no,
that was just I was just sitting there going, good lord,
that was a great summation of the the unique different
characteristics of Mormonism. um, what I thought it was the
way that the question was kind of read is, you know,
can I do this? and then that little caveat as
a Christian, and it's like, well, I'm pretty sure that
(12:14):
whoever wrote that in, she already knows the answer.
She's she just already knows the answer that the answer
is that right? That's a, yeah, that's already a check
like you're asking like are you asking as just a
human being? Well, you have free will, you can do
whatever you want, but then you added this caveat as
a Christian. Well, OK, now, well now you're gonna hear
the whole apologetic which I thought was brilliantly done and
(12:35):
of course we can all do whatever we want, but
will it please the Lord? No, period, it just won't,
and Bobby gave great reasons why it's so uniquely different. Yeah,
and it it, you know.
Doing something intentionally that will not please the Lord is
not a wise way to live, and you can bet
your life even though right now maybe everything's good because
(12:58):
you're you're in love and you know all the emotions,
you get into a marital situation like this and you're
either gonna have to um.
Conform to Mormonism.
Um, which is not gonna be, uh, I mean, how,
how are you gonna do that if you have a
real relationship with Jesus because as Bobby just mentioned, you're
(13:19):
gonna embrace a system that is contradictory to what we
know to be true from scripture. So it's just, it
would be the height of, of, um, just.
Unwise uh.
Yeah, be foolish. Yeah, it'd be foolish. I try not
to say foolish, but it, it would be foolish to
(13:40):
do that, yeah, so, uh, and so many people could
tell the story of how they did it and then
live to regret it. And you say, oh well, maybe,
but maybe they will come to the Lord. Well, maybe,
but not through.
The means that you might be thinking. So if they're
(14:01):
gonna come to the Lord, it'll be not through marriage.
I gotta tell you, and I mean I'm sure this
is true for the you guys too like we've all
heard these stories, but then you do counseling and you're
like there it's a misery.
And everything they wanted that they thought they'd get before,
it's worse than what they thought. And so like I'm,
(14:22):
I'm the, you know, a gal's like I, I, I
wanna marry this guy. He's, I'm gonna change him. I'm
a Christian, he's not, but I'm gonna be the one
that's gonna, you know, we're gonna, I'm gonna change that,
and it just doesn't happen and it is heartbreaking how
much worse the situation becomes, especially when you have, um, uh,
you know, a religion.
Where there's pressure to, and you know, there's cultural pressure.
(14:46):
So family Mormonism has an entire culture built around it
that you are gonna be constantly pressured to embrace, um,
you know, 11 thing, um, I'm, I wanted to say, um.
I did think Bobby's answer was brilliant, but
(15:08):
And I'm not even gonna add to it, but I,
but Bobby, Bobby almost said what I want to say,
but I think this statement, it just exposes the whole thing.
Brigham Young said.
Um, as we are now, God once was, and as
God is now, we shall become. That right there should
(15:28):
tell you everything you know. That is basically saying that
God in heaven used to be a man. And so
it's like that's a problem, right? And that we could
be him. Yeah, we're, we're gonna be there.
Yeah, guys, that's, I mean, to, to, to the young
lady that, you know, reached out, I would say.
(15:49):
I, now you could be feeling some emotional trolling, and
we recognize that, you know, it's a radio show, so
we might miss the pastoral side because you, you asked
us an apologetic question, uh, but we, please know that
we're just trying to be loving, where people have been
married for a long time. We've been pastors for a
(16:10):
long time and what Pastor Brian said is true. I mean, you,
you're in the heat of feeling a connection.
So much so that you're thinking about marriage, and if
you got saved after you were dating, this is one
of the tough things, right? Or, you know, the, this,
who are we gonna follow, right? If you were saved beforehand,
(16:34):
this is one of the consequences of giving your heart
to somebody and then
Falling in love with somebody, but I would also say it's,
it's a, it's an indication for both of you that
That you've neither of you are probably where you need
to be in the profession of faith that you hold,
(16:56):
because somebody that's holding fast to Mormonism and really living
it out wouldn't date a Christian because they would know
that that's problematic. And so if Christianity is no different,
then why don't Mormons.
Go out and seek Christians to marry because they know
that it's a problem. And then why don't Christians who
are committed to Christ date Mormons because they know it's
(17:18):
a problem and so the emotion will wear off at
some point someday, not that you won't still feel love,
but just all that honeymoon excitement that's there.
Uh, what'll happen is now you've got a, a, a
father that, you know, maybe the Lord saves him, but you,
you can't marry someone on that bed. But then you've got,
(17:39):
as Brian had kids, and then what if the kids
end up believing in Mormonism and now you've, you had
kids with somebody and now you've got kids that are Mormons.
And I just think that this is one of these
things that can be really, really difficult. I would say.
Uh, maybe push pause on this. Take your relationship with
Christ seriously. Um, tell him how important it is. As
(18:02):
a Mormon, he would understand the language and how important
it is for us to be committed to our beliefs
and just then say that I really want you to
look at Christ. But let's have some space, go to church,
look into this, and then if indeed God gets a
hold of this person and he ends up being truly saved,
you can watch to see the evidence, the fruit, and
then
You can be growing, and then if he brings you
(18:24):
back together, if it's God's will for you to be married,
then give God the opportunity to save this person and
then make sure that you're aligned in that way. And
I think that would honor the Lord and protect you
from a lot of consequences down the road. And the
biggest consequence, I think, is just you losing your heart
for Jesus or just having a settled Christian faith that
doesn't really make a difference in the world, Brian.
(18:45):
Yes, the, the last thing I, I would say to,
you know, sometimes people are in a situation and I,
I'm not saying necessarily that this is the case with
the person who asked the question, but you know, you're
in a situation where you're like, well, gosh, this is
You know, I mean, what if I can't find anybody
else or, you know, this, this just seems like this
(19:06):
is the, the right thing for me and just know that,
you know, God's plan is the best plan, and God's
plan is not to go outside of what he's clearly stated,
because the Bible does say.
Not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers, and although the
context of that is not marriage, the principle is the same,
(19:26):
because what you're gonna do is you are going to
connect yourself in the deepest way. That's what it means
to be yoked. It means to be connected intimately with
uh another person, and you, you're gonna end up doing
that uh with an unbeliever and it's just it's not
a good end. That's what you have to remember.
And another thing going along with what you just said,
(19:48):
and again, not that we're saying that this is Naomi's case,
but she might say, I've dated Christian guys before. I've
met guys at church before. They're jerks. This guy, he's amazing. Yeah, yeah,
and that happens. Yeah, I mean, that's seriously, that's out there.
There's a lot of jerky Christians and there's a lot
of really great non-Christians, uh, but when it comes down
(20:08):
to it, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
Is it makes a big difference. And when it comes
down to it, it, it comes down to again the
the will of God. And so, you know, as you
seek the Lord, he's and and use wisdom, you know,
he's not gonna.
(20:28):
He's not gonna move you toward a jerky Christian versus
versus a nice Mormons, yeah, God's not doing that. Yeah,
he will, he will lead you to a good person
who genuinely loves him, but it is, it is tragic,
and we've, we've all experienced where, you know, I've talked, I've.
(20:48):
Talked to so many people, literally, um, you know, maybe
dozens and dozens wear it. They met at church, they
got married in the church. They were convinced that and,
and a lot of times it's women convinced that the
man is a believer and they act the part and
they do it all. And a couple of years into
(21:09):
the marriage, they're just like, hey, I'm done with this
Christian thing and it's just horrific. So sad. Yeah, it's
so sad. Yeah.
All right, uh, Naomi, thank you for sending in your
question online, and let's do one more that was sent
in online, then we'll go to the phones, 888-564-6173. Bree,
you will be first up on the phones, but Lisa,
(21:29):
Sent this one in. For generations, people have speculated about
the Anti-Christ. This guy or that guy must be the one.
Most recently, I've had a friend and others state that
Donald Trump is the Anti-Christ. I came back with not
enough people like him to follow him. That's funny. But
what do you say to someone who truly believes someone,
(21:50):
Trump or otherwise, is the Anti-Christ? My understanding is that
he will not reveal himself until after the rapture. What
do you guys say?
It's, I mean, the, let me just be unequivocal. it's
not Donald Trump, you know, like it's just, it's not
Donald Trump doesn't doesn't fit the bill on that, but yeah.
Um, and that's that's like a that's a politicizing of
(22:10):
a biblical reality. The Bible says it's gonna be anti-Christ
and then we're all trying to fit the person that
we don't like into that, you know, uh, but you know,
even John talks about how that there's there's many anti-Christs, right?
They like people act in the spirit of an anti
like anti-God and so no it is not Donald Trump, um,
(22:31):
it's this idea that we all we all wanna kind
of
Conject who it is and we want to throw our
concepts into there, but the Bible does not give us
who that person is. I mean, we don't know the
name of that person, uh, when that person is here,
the world will know, right? Yeah, and, and I think to,
to the question about the the rapture and, um, you know,
there is a passage in Thessalonians that that tells us
(22:53):
it's talking about this man of sin, the son of
perdition that's gonna be revealed, and it says that there
is a restraining force currently, and the question is what
is that force and
that the text doesn't really answer it, but it does
seem to fit that the presence of the spirit in
the church is is that restraining force and and perhaps
that is the case, but, um, uh, you know, all
(23:16):
of us have grown up on on prophecy, we've studied prophecy,
we've taught prophecy, and, and I think one of the
things that we just have to learn, and I don't
know if we ever will.
is not to, you know, not to jump to these conclusions. Uh,
Ronald Reagan was the Antichrist at one point in some
(23:37):
people's minds, um,
Uh, what's his name, uh, the, the, the, yeah, what
was the Secretary of, uh, state, Rockefeller, yes, yeah, Kissinger was,
I mean, he was a dead ringer for the and
obviously Adolf Hitler was like the ultimate, well, you know, yes,
of course, Mussolini, all of those, yeah, but yeah, in
more recent terms, Kissinger, so I think we just need to,
(23:59):
could we just learn to just say, you know, we
don't know that's that that doesn't sell books. We don't
know sell books and, uh, when the time comes.
Um, we will know. I, I think it will be
clear and you know, I, I think that was a
pretty clever answer, you know, not enough people like that's
funny like Trump because it does seem from scripture that
(24:21):
this person is gonna be the one that everybody's wow about, like,
oh my gosh, did you see what that guy did?
And this is amazing, and of course he must be
the savior. Well, it wasn't that long ago Obama was mentioned.
Well this is anti-Christ, you know, I mean, it just,
it flip flops yeah.
So, Bobby, any thoughts from you?
(24:42):
Um, no, uh, I would hate to add to just
that great exposition that they laid out.
Well, but you know, feel free if you, uh, if
you need to.
No, no, I'm good.
OK, Nay, uh, no, that was Lisa. Thank you for
sending in your question on Kwave.com. And now let's go
(25:05):
to the phones, Bree in Riverside listening on FM 107.9 Kwave.
Thank you for calling 888-564-6173.
Hi, thank you for taking my call. You bet. Thanks
for calling.
So my question is, uh, can a Christian be demon possessed?
And why do you ask this question?
(25:27):
Because I
I feel like I've seen it, but I, you know,
I can't guarantee, so what have you seen?
I've studied, I've kind of looked up scriptures and I've
heard a lot of Christians say that uh they cannot
be demon possessed, like it's impossible, but I haven't found
a scripture that backs that up, so it's kind of
(25:49):
confusing to me, um, just Christians that are
I don't know, acting completely outside of themselves is how
I would describe it. OK. Bobby, what would you say?
Um, I don't believe that, uh, there can be possession
for the believer. There are some people that will make
(26:10):
that case. It's hard to envision the Holy Spirit sharing
soul space with the devil or demons.
Uh, that said, the influence can be very powerful, and
I think it could, uh, mimic a lot of what
possession could look like on some level and not on
(26:32):
another level. Uh, when you think of like true possession, it,
I've been a Christian for over 30 years, and perhaps
I've seen somebody that's deemed possessed, but I don't, and
I hope that I never do.
But I can't think of an experience where I would
be able to say for certain that person's demon possessed.
(26:53):
And why is that? Well, what kind of evidence would
we have for what would entail possession?
Um, it seems as if the demons would have a
special knowledge, um, a strength. You think about the guy
breaking the chains off of himself, um, a, a knowledge
about things, um, you know, if I saw somebody speaking
(27:15):
in a language that they couldn't speak, that was in
a freaky kind of way, um, those type of things,
the type of
Instances with Christians, it's more of an oppression, not possession. Doubts, temptation, fear, uh, anxiety,
just uh just hopelessness, um.
(27:39):
Temptation that just feels like it won't lift, uh, the, the,
a sense of dark presence, uh, you know, strange emotions,
that's kind of the flavor of oppression, and that stuff
is there with possession, but you don't see a believer,
you know,
(28:00):
Just outwardly working against Jesus in the sense that you
would see somebody possessed, nor would you see them flipping
over a car or some of these other type of
stories that you can hear. So I do think that
people are demon possessed. I think that there's people that
Speak too freely on that. Oh this and which for
(28:21):
all listeners, we all have to be very careful that
we don't just call somebody possessed. I mean, most of
us aren't bumping into demon possessed people, and if we do, uh,
I don't think we're gonna really have to discern a
whole lot. You'll recognize that there's something really crazy going
on here.
And so sadly because of a lot of what goes
(28:44):
on in some of the ultra charismatic churches, uh, there's
so much possession and oppression, it's everywhere that that can
create problems for people. If, if so, in other words,
if we don't know what it is, then we might
think believers have it. But once we know what it is,
I think we're going to be hard pressed to think
of a true believer that is exhibiting the type of
(29:07):
things that go along with possession.
Brian, 30 seconds.
30 seconds, yeah, um, there is a, a passage in
scripture that I think will, um, help you. First John
5:18 says, for, uh, it says, we know that anyone
born of God does not continue to sin. The one
who was born of God keeps them safe and the
(29:29):
evil one cannot touch them.
Um, and the word, the, the actual Greek word there
is a word that means to possess, cannot possess them.
So I think that's a, that's a, a scriptural basis
for no Christian demon possession. plus there's no example in scripture.
Of a Christian ever being demon possessed. There's no instruction on, hey,
(29:54):
if somebody in the church gets possessed, this is how
you deal with it, which I think there would be
if it was a possibility. We'll see what Bree thinks
of those answers when we come back on Pastor's perspective.
(30:17):
Hey, we're back on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is the number
to call us today. I'm Brian Perez here with Brian Broderson,
Bobby Conway, and Phil Metzger. 25 more minutes to go.
What would you like to know? 888-564-6173. We were speaking
with Bree in Riverside. She called in wondering if a
believer can be demon possessed. We gave you our answers. Bree,
(30:40):
what did you think?
Yeah, so I totally understand the oppression um that we
believers face. I think this one, these people that I
was thinking of, um, it's a little bit more extreme
though because I've, I've heard like them shriek.
And then I've also seen it kind of changed to
(31:03):
like a light switch where it's like there's something behind
them and they're a different person, and it just seems demonic.
And who knows, maybe they're not a Christian, they call
themselves a Christian, but it just seemed very unusual to me. Uh,
you know, one thing I would say, Bree, in, in
this area, we really need to
Lean into and stand on scripture versus um experience because I've,
(31:28):
all of the all of those Christians that I know
who do believe in Christian demon possession, they will base,
they will base their conviction on experience. They'll say, well,
I saw this and I just, you know, I know
that's what it was. I had a conversation with a
woman one time who um told me that she was
(31:48):
a Christian who was demon possessed.
And now she was delivered and I
As nicely as I could. I told her, well, listen,
you were not demon possessed. If you were a Christian,
now it's possible that maybe you weren't a Christian, maybe
it's just you grew up in church and you assumed,
but you know, we, we have to go back to
(32:10):
scripture as our basis for.
Determining these things, not like, well, you know, I saw
this or I heard this, and I, I would tell
you too, and I think Phil and Bobby would affirm this,
I have seen people over the years who thought they
were possessed and did things that looked like they were possessed,
(32:35):
but they weren't, and it was more of a an
emotional manipulation type of a thing that was happening.
Um, and I learned, a learned behavior. It's like, oh,
this is what demon possessed people do, and so I'm
gonna come into the church, I'm gonna fall down and
roll around and scream and make crazy noises. I've actually
witnessed that, but in the end it was like, well,
(32:59):
But there's, there's not a demon here. This is, this
is just a person acting it out. But not to
say that there aren't people who are demon possessed, but
they're not Christians in the biblical sense if they are
possessed to that. Yeah, which is I I think Bree,
like I was glad that you did hear you say
that too, like maybe they weren't saved, but that's people
(33:20):
can be demon possessed.
Christians cannot be demon possessed based on scripture. So yeah,
I think that's such a good point, Brian. I've had
so many people tell me that like they've, but it
always goes back to experience, which I mean when it
comes to my faith in Christ, I love experience, but
if it can't be rooted in scripture, then I really
have to challenge the experience. We do, yeah.
(33:41):
Yeah, thank you so much. I appreciate all the um
opinions and um insights. All right. Thank you for calling
us today on Pastor's Perspective. You know, in, um, powers
of Darkness and people of God, I actually have an
appendix in there on this very subject. So, um, yeah,
that's available for purchase on the Back to Basradio.com website
(34:02):
under store, and you can get it in Spanish if
you want.
It's there, back to Basradio.com. 888-564-6173 is our number. Let's
read another question that was sent in online, and then
Eric will talk to you. First, here's a question from
Ben and Kim.
My question is about ending a relationship with my mother.
(34:22):
It's hard because she really has nobody. She has pushed
everybody out of her life and refuses to change or
get help. We're not sure if it's mental illness or
just unhealthy behavior. I have a son with a genetic
disease that is fatal.
Numerous times my mom has stated to me that he
is not healed because of my lack of faith. I
tried to explain to her that that's not biblical, that
(34:45):
I do believe God can heal him, but that if
he doesn't, it's also his will that he is using
my son and my life and the lives of others
because of his situation. It's just gotten to be too much.
This is a hard disease, and having someone so negative
and discouraging around just makes it harder.
Is it biblical to cut her out of my life? Bobby,
(35:07):
what do you say?
Wow.
Talk about a lot of pressure. I mean, that is,
that is a cross right there. I mean.
To have a situation where, you know, you're feeling like.
I'm responsible to heal for the heal this person. I mean,
that's just overwhelming.
(35:29):
Uh
I think that I would do your best to realize
that she's scrambling and hurt and struggling and handling it
very wrong, but just remember your identity in Christ and
remember that people sometimes really hurt people when they're hurting,
and this is a prime case of that. I hope
(35:52):
you don't have to eliminate the relationship, but I do
think setting up boundaries around.
Being a scapegoat of what's going on is unacceptable and
that it's not fair and to, to put that kind
of pressure to heal. I mean, if, if prayer works
(36:14):
so powerful, uh, in her opinion, then why doesn't God
heal hear her prayer? I mean, why is it on you, right?
So it's just an unfortunate situation.
Uh, I would say that boundaries can be important, but,
but you don't want to have to eliminate the relationship, right?
(36:36):
That should be a last resort. Have the conversation, I'm
sure you have, uh, ask if she will not bring
it up, if she's just gonna continue to talk with
you about it, then I think giving you some space
until she's ready to enter into a relationship where it's
not your res you're you're not the, you know, the
one she's finding.
Faultless. Uh, that's what I would say. Uh, uh, we
(36:59):
are living in a time as it relates to boundaries
where the research is coming in on the therapeutic culture.
Like we grew up in a context as um Gen
Xers where there wasn't.
You know, a lot of mental health discussion. Now everybody's
talking mental health and everybody thinks that they're a therapist
and diagnosing people and, and what's crazy is we were
(37:21):
the culture that was free, we could roam, we could
do things and uh we weren't talking about our emotions
all the time. We weren't sitting in counseling places and
yet we've had more counseling, and now we're starting to
assess it and go, and the kids are kind of
having a lot of issues. So, uh, I think that
what they're doing.
Now is all this safe space is you have counselors
(37:44):
telling people to write their parents off and loved ones
off because they're not safe. And now if boundaries become
something as an excuse for us not to grow, then
that's a problem. But when you are trying to grow
and it's just really problematic, then I think that they're there.
And so boundaries are kind of a last resort, not
a first resort. Phil? Wow, yeah, that's good. I like
(38:08):
that context of Gen X too, Bobby, that was great.
Yeah, I mean, I mean my gosh, you're like in
a rock and a hard place, it's like it's your mom,
but then it's your kid and your first priority is
your kid.
And there's no Bible verse that's gonna tell you what
to do. What does it mean to honor your mother
and father in that context? That's, um, you know, I
really think like what Bobby said there, hold relationship in
(38:28):
as much as you can, if there's gotta be pausing,
if there's gotta be, you know, kind of like maybe
there's like, hey, I don't want my son to be
around because I don't want him hearing this, like this is,
you know, those kinds of things might stir your mom
towards
You know, or maybe not, you know, and these, these
things are tough, man, as much as you can hold relationship,
I think that was a good word, Bobby, we gotta
(38:49):
try to hold relationship, whatever the cost, you know, and
especially as an adult, if you're able to see it
for what it is, your mom's displaying some really irrational, unhealthy, unhelpful.
Words, as long as you can hold that, then it
doesn't have to impact you so much, you know, um,
I guess if it doesn't have to, if it ain't
(39:09):
sticking to you, then you know, maybe you you can
hold on to that relationship. If it's gonna burden you
and just crush you, that's gonna be tough, man. That's
a that's a hard situation.
Ben and Kim, thank you for sending in your question
on Facebook. And now here's Eric and Belle, who listens
to the Pastor's perspective podcast. Hi there, Eric. Thank you
for calling in today. Uh, hello, gentlemen, good afternoon. Good afternoon.
(39:33):
Um, I just wanna just by saying what a blessing
you guys have been to my life. Um, Pastor Bobby, um,
some of the stories you guys have shared, you shared, um,
and the openness to share your stories with us is,
it just makes me admire, admire you more besides the
fact that you're a genius to me. Um, that's kind
(39:54):
of you. Thank you, bro.
Uh, Pastor Brian and Pastor Phil, you're
Pastoral heart just, man, I wish I had you guys' wisdom.
So I just really admire you guys. Thanks to her.
You guys have been to us for me. We, we
appreciate that. Thank you.
Um, so I'm, I'm currently without work. Um, I'm not
(40:16):
saying that to, you know, all for me, but I
just wanted to make much of my time since I'm
currently without work and decided to, um, read the Bible
from beginning to end, something I've never done, so I
intention of doing that, uh, until I find work, um, I.
Currently finished uh Genesis with my wife and I had
(40:36):
a question on it, uh, specifically on Genesis 39 Gentlemen. Um,
this is where, uh, uh, chapter 27, verse 29, verse 39,
excuse me, this is the background on this, I'm sure
you guys are aware is where, um, Jacob is blessed, um.
Uh, excuse me, Isaac blesses Jacob and not Esau, um,
(40:59):
but then, uh, Esau, um, is also given somewhat of
a blessing in verse 39, um, um, but, uh, reading,
because I take your guys' advice by reading other versions where,
you know, things that are not too clear.
It can be clearer to me. And so, uh, reading
that verse, um, it seems to be like there's a
(41:19):
bit of discrepancy, but, um, I, I'm sure there's an
explanation to it. Um, from my understanding, what, let's, for example,
the new Living translation on that verse, it reads that
ethos will partake in, um, let me see, let me
read it exactly how it, how it reads.
Um, he says, uh, finally his father Isaac said to
(41:41):
said to him, You will live away from, from the
riches of the earth and away from the dew of
the heaven above. So that's the new living translation, how
it reads. Uh, but then you would, if you go
to the new, uh, to the new King James.
It reads, uh, then Isaac, his father answered and said
to him, Behold, your dwellings shall be of the of
(42:03):
the fatness of the earth and of the dew of
the heaven from above. So it kind of seems on
the new, new living translation side that he is gonna,
he's gonna be, he's not gonna enjoy um
It's not gonna enjoy the riches of the land of
the earth, but yet you read the new King King's
(42:23):
version and it says, you will dwell, um, of the
sadness of the earth. So I was hoping you guys
can maybe, you know, make that clear to me. Uh,
is it? I actually have a, I have an answer
myself what I think it is, but, um, wanted to
hear you guys, your guys's answer.
Phil, yeah, and I'll tell you I'm looking at it
(42:44):
on the screen here. It does say you will live
away from the ris of the earth, it almost? Yeah,
so you're talking about two different, like, so when let's
just use New King James and New Living, but really
behind the scenes we're talking about two different original texts
that we're working off of. And so when we talk
about New King James or King James, if I, if
(43:05):
I say those, those are the two that we're talking about.
That takes a more literal approach, so the use of
that phrase from may suggest that, now listen, there's some
that would say it suggests a softening of the kind
of the blow that Esau was experiencing.
It's also very possible, and the new King James and
King James are quite literal translations, so it's possible that
(43:27):
it's simply a description of where Esau would dwell. He
would dwell in these in this place, this place where
there is fatness and all that kind of stuff. In
the New Living, I'm just using that one particular
But that comes from a different set of, of, uh, texts,
original texts. It's a bit more contextual and a little
(43:47):
bit more maybe theological to the idea that Esau is
outside of the covenant of God in the same way
that Jacob was receiving the blessing Esau was not. So
one seems to be more focused on like the theological
nature of the covenant, the other may be softened to
express a literal nature of the fact that
(44:08):
Esau would dwell in a place where there was fatness.
So you have kind of two different approaches, a literal
translation to that or like a literal theological expression of that. B. Yeah,
I think um it's interesting that all of the of
the what we would call the newer translations like the
(44:29):
uh NIV and the ESB and the NASB and the
NET for that matter, all of them say away from.
And so it is only the new King James and
probably the King James as well. It does, yeah, yeah.
And I think, um, one of the things I've, I've
kind of done a deep dive into some of these
things at times because the King James, and, and here's
(44:53):
where it gets a little bit challenging too because with
the Old Testament, the distinction is not as sharp. So
with the New Testament, we have the critical text and
then we have the text receptus. With the Old Testament,
we have the massoretic text is the main text that
everybody's drawing from.
So it's not, um, there's not like this, you know,
this like, oh, here's one text here and here's another one,
(45:15):
and this one says this and the other one says that.
A lot of times it comes down to the way
they understand the structure of the Hebrew language and sometimes it's,
you know, one interpreter says, no, I think, I think
this is the better structure, and another one says, no,
I think this is the better, and it could go
(45:35):
either way.
So I think that's probably what you have here, but
I mean, obviously, on the one hand, the point is
he's gonna be away from this. That's
Right, it's quite literally, yeah, that's a theological, but the
literal is he's, he's, you know, when we read about
Esau further on in the history, Esau's blessed, you know,
(45:55):
he's the prince over these tribes. He comes to Jacob
and he's got all of this, uh, wealth and he's,
oh my brother, you know, let me take care of
you and all this stuff. So literally where he dwelt
is exactly what Jacob described. Yeah, and so I think
we can't, it's, it's not one of those things to.
Lose any sleep over. It's not an either or, right, right.
(46:16):
I think that's exactly it, yeah. Quickly, Eric, what is
your thought?
Um, well, I thought, uh, what, uh, Pastor Brian shared
in the end, um, it's what he's describing is in
Genesis 33 nights where, um, Jacob and, uh, Eesop meet
again and, um, and, um, let me see, and I
(46:37):
think it's Jacob offers, you know, all these presents to Esau,
but I said it's OK. I have more than enough.
So I because of that, um.
Conclusion, I, I mean, I, because of that, I came
to the conclusion that, um, the new King James was
the more maybe accurate, uh, translation, but, um, now I
(46:58):
understand it, it doesn't necessarily need to be one or
the other could be both like you guys were describing.
So thank you, gentlemen. I really appreciate it. Yeah. Bobby,
any thoughts from you?
Well, my new buddy Chat GPT, uh, had this that
I thought was interesting, um, in Hebrew, um, it comes
(47:19):
down to the preposition, how it's used it, how the
trans translators understand the verse, and it says the Hebrew
word me can either mean from in the sense of source,
that is, you'll receive from the fatness.
Or away from in the sense of separation, you'll live
away from the fatness. And so for those that are interested,
(47:41):
you can pay 20 bucks a month. I have been
blown away by Chat GPT. I like I've, I've been
a long time log O Bible user and I use
that on the program, uh, when I'm trying to quickly navigate.
And this thing for 20 bucks a month is so
much more superior, and I'm not saying it doesn't make mistakes,
(48:05):
but I have been blown away by, um, the Bible
knowledge that that it gives. It's insane. Like I'm literally
just like, I have, I'm preaching through John.
I have, I preached through it before and I probably
got 500 pages of notes. I can take my sermons
now that I have rough notes. I drop it in
(48:27):
the chat and I say, Hey, can you edit and
then make my points that I already have whistle better.
It doesn't even think. It kicks it back to me.
I have a completely edited manuscript, so you could go
back through as pastors all of your sermons, drop it
in chat.
It'll make it totally like book ready edited and you've
(48:49):
done the work. The danger is for those up and
coming preachers that haven't done the hard work, they could just, hey,
give me a sermon for it, and then that's where
plagiarism falls in. But when you've got the stuff and
you dropped the content in, it's like having an editor,
it's amazing. Not only that, just for one more plug
because it can really help you in Bible study.
With my art, I, I'm drawing and I can, I
(49:11):
can draw a picture and then I, I say, what
do you think of this? Have I captured the essence?
And it, it doesn't even think. It immediately says, you
need to drop the upper lip.
Do just a hair's breadth. I'm like, how does it
know it, it knows my image and, and, and it
tells me what to do. And I'm like, oh, that's
a good catch. Or if you shade in a little
(49:34):
bit more, it'll help it look more realistic. I, I'm
so I'm like,
Recognizing this could be really dangerous where now people will
be talking about God the Father, God the Son, and
Chat GPT is is the Holy Spirit. I hope we
don't go that way, but it definitely can be a
coach in a lot of areas. So Chad GPT helped
(49:54):
me on this. Thanks for giving me a reason to
reach out to my friend. Are you getting a kickback
on that? I was gonna say, yeah.
Yesterday I was telling people to donate to Bobby's ministry.
It sounds like Chat GPT is supporting him, so, you know,
I don't think there's a need now. You know, I
just read literally before I came over. I, I read
(50:15):
something that was, it was a kid who was graduating
from college and he was showing his graduation paper that
he had done with Chad GPT and the, the person
who posted it said education is over. It's, it's like
done right.
Yeah, so what are gonna be some of the ethics, right,
of chat GPT that we could say because I, I
(50:37):
worry about emerging ministry people that the shortcut's gonna be
too like, man, we just had to learn that like,
you remember guys, the days when we were doing it,
I mean you had to get all the book you
had like 10 books laid out and one of them
was strong the strongs it was just a complete nightmare yeah.
But I think, I think Bobby, what you're saying is
(50:58):
a good point that we have to like the danger
is gonna be too many people saying it's all evil
and people are gonna use it anyways instead of like, no,
there's just right ways to use every tool. Every tool
has its, you know, there's a way to use a screwdriver,
use a screwdriver in the right way, it'll get the
job done. AI is no different, it's you know, we
can't say no, we have to say just use it,
(51:19):
source it right, source it well. So I, I have
a friend and.
Uh, Phil, you know, you know him, and I'm not
sure if you do, Bobby, but he's, he loves Chat
GBT and he, he actually, uh, he, he lives in
a place where he doesn't drive too much, but he
will reserve his drives to have conversations with Chat GPT. So,
you know, he'll go around, he'll ask.
(51:40):
Oh, is this the guy you got in the car with? Yeah,
I got in the car with him. So we're driving along,
and he had told me that before and I thought
this is crazy. And he says, Hey, you wanna let's
let's talk to Chad GBT and that's OK, well, uh,
this is what you do. So anyway, he says, ask
it a question and I had just been doing this.
I listened to this whole, uh, series on the history
of Peter the Great, and I said, OK, you know, let's,
(52:03):
let's talk about Peter the Great. So Chat GPT, you know,
starts telling us all this stuff about Peter the Great.
I say, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, this is all
the stuff that I.
Had, um, read and heard and so then, then my
friend says, OK, Chad GBT could you do a comparison
between Peter the Great and, uh, Pastor Brian Broderson? That's
when it got super crazy, you know, the Chat GBT
(52:25):
is like, well, you know, it's a, it's a little
bit difficult to compare them because of course.
to the great, you know, was a, was a ruler
of a country and, you know, uh, Brian is a,
he's a shepherd over God's people. I mean, it's just,
it was quite complimentary to me. I was thinking, wow,
they found the good stuff on the internet all the
let me give it some more sources. No, please don't.
(52:49):
Yeah, there's people that like set it up to like
get getting daily encouragement and stuff like that and I'm like, jeez.
Crazy. What a world. What a world. All right, we're
running out of time, but let's see how many more
calls we can squeeze in. Daniel and Tustin, welcome to
Pastor's Perspective. How can we help you?
Speaker 2 (53:08):
Hi guys, uh, I'm pretty I don't know if you
guys remember me, but um, I was the on and
off Christian that left the email for, I think it
was Brian, um, the, the, the one about, um, that
if it was about me not, you know, being with
my wife and, and so, well yeah, me not uh
(53:28):
following God because I've had marital issues with my wife
and um.
Yeah, so, uh, I, today I was calling uh in
regards to a different question, um, based off numerology. Today
I was listening to, um,
Uh, Pastor Chuck Smith's, uh, teaching about, um, I don't
know if it was about numerology, but he was basically, um,
(53:52):
saying that there are certain numbers like in the Bible
that some people would say, like, I, I, I, I'm
not sure if they have any meaning to it, but
my question for you guys is, is there any like, um,
Biblical um confirmation that God or angels do speak to
(54:13):
us through numbers or like, do we get any form
of communication from the Lord through numbers?
Speaker 1 (54:20):
Brian, what would you say? Got about 45 seconds.
Uh, well, Daniel, I, I would say that um we
shouldn't look for numbers to be speaking to us. We,
we just need to look to the, you know, the
plain statements in the, in the biblical text, and, uh,
you know, in scripture, you do have places where you
see numerical patterns and the patterns seem to point to something. Uh,
(54:42):
7 is the most obvious, 7 points to completion, and
you see that in, um, you know, God created the
earth in 6 days on the 7th day he rested.
Um, but then to the Book of Revelation, you see
the number 7 occurring a number of times and it's
obvious that that it's speaking about a certain pattern and
a and a fulfillment of something. But then, you know, people,
(55:04):
oh well, the number 12, it stands for government because
there were 12 tribes in of of Israel and the number.
Uh, 5 stands for grace because, um, of this and,
and so forth. And a lot of that is just,
it's speculation and so you don't want to go around
looking for like numerical patterns to see how God's speaking
to you. He's speaking to you, you know, primarily right
(55:26):
through the, the plain statements of scripture. So that's where
you wanna stay.
Connected. Daniel, thank you for calling in today on Pastor's Perspective.
We've run out of time, sorry that we couldn't get
to all of your calls, but we'll be back tomorrow
between 3 and 4 in the afternoon, so we look
forward to speaking to you then. Thanks for watching on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram.
(55:48):
We're gonna archive later on Facebook, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and
Spotify on behalf of Brian Broderson, Bobby Conway and Phil Metzger.
I'm Brian Perez. Thanks for listening and watching Pastor's Perspective.
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez.
It's Thursday, the 19th of June, and we are here
live until 4 o'clock to answer the questions you've got
about the Bible, the Christian faith, just about anything that's
on your mind. Grab an open line. We'd love to
talk to you at.
888-564-6173-888-564-6173. We've also got ways for you to send your
(00:42):
questions in online so that we can read them here
and answer them, but the best way to get an
answer is for you guys to call us. Pastor Brian's
taking selfies over there, Better wave at, uh, Pastor Brian's camera, um.
888-564-6173 is the number. And yeah, we've got Pastor Brian
Broderson from Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa. He's here in the studio. And, uh,
(01:06):
so is Phil Metzger, who made the trip up from Calvary,
San Diego. Good to have Phil in the studio here.
and author and apologist Doctor Bobby Conway, the pastor of
Image Church in Charlotte, North Carolina, did not fly over
here to, uh, join us, but, uh, he's there on camera.
Hi there, Bobby.
Hey, how you guys doing? All right. Good to see you, Bobby. Yes, I, uh, I'm,
(01:30):
I don't know if I can see you guys. Uh, I,
I think that they need to turn the screen on, but, um,
I can hear you. It's good to hear you. Well,
we can see you. We can see you, we can see.
All right. You look great radio style. It is radio, right?
That's right. That's right, the old fashioned way, and we
liked it.
(01:50):
888-564-6173 is the number to call us today, and uh
like I said, you can send your questions in online
as well. In fact, uh we'll start with one of
those questions that was sent in online. This is from Mario.
The people of Israel grumble and complain to God about
not having meat in the deserts. When Israel left Egypt,
(02:11):
they had plenty of animals because of being shepherds and
bred due to the Passover happening right before they left.
Each time they sacrificed for the different offering, they had
a total of each tribe.
The total seemed to be a large quantity of 24 bulls,
60 rams, 60 goats, etc. It seems they have a
lot of cattle, and since the sacrifices are required to
be a 1 year old without defect, that means the
(02:32):
livestock are reproducing.
This would mean there would be plenty of other non-sacrificed
food to eat. The Bible also mentions grain offerings with
flour and oil, which makes me think they are able
to make breads and different types of food. God also
gave them manna to eat each morning. So how did
the people say they that they don't have meat when
they seem to be surrounded by food? Phil?
(02:56):
Well, and Mario did his math and he's got his
numbers and so, good job, Mario, I I I I
don't know. I'm gonna guess your numbers are right. Well,
so let me just use it kind of in modern
terms and then also kind of it'll make sense there,
food insecurity isn't the same as no food at all,
so the the the the idea here is like, yes
(03:18):
they had livestock, yes they had grain, yes they had
these things.
But they could all be gone so quickly if they
had to begin to use all of that. So there
was no guarantee that's what food insecurity is. It's not
that I don't have the food for this meal, but
that if I, if one thing goes wrong, all the
dominoes are gonna start falling and it's gonna impact every
(03:39):
part of our society. So there is that insecurity of
if that happens, we're doomed.
God's provision is to say, I am not expecting you
to live trusting that if one thing bad happens, everything
bad is gonna happen, but I'm trusting you to believe
that I'm going to meet you every single day. I'm
going to provide for you. So.
(04:00):
There really was in a sense no way of guaranteeing
that what they had would have been enough for all
of them. Yes, animals would have been born, yes, they
could grow, you know, kind of grow things here and there, wild,
they could pick things they could do that, but it
would have been gone so quick, so they were right
in saying, hey, we don't, we don't have enough and
that's kind of what food insecurity is, right? It's not
(04:21):
that I don't have a meal, it's that if something
goes wrong, the meals that I have may not be enough. Yeah.
Well, Phil, that was an absolutely brilliant answer. I just,
that's why he's Doctor Phil. Yeah, you know, before he
had the doctor attached to his name, I don't know
if he could have given it. My answers were lame.
(04:43):
So that is so good. Food insecurity. I never, I
never really thought about that, but the funny thing is
I actually read that story.
Today in numbers. And it's the place, you know, where
the people were crying, uh, they were really complaining in
a in a lot of ways too about the type
of food like back in Egypt we had melons and
we had leeks and we had onions and we had garlic,
(05:06):
and now we just have this miserable, what is this
stuff anyway, manna.
Um, and they were complaining about that. So, you know,
the Lord says, OK, you want meat, I'll give you meat,
not for a day or a week or, uh, two weeks.
I'm gonna give it to you for 30 days straight
and
And then, you know, that's when uh it says as
(05:28):
the flesh was still in their teeth, uh, the judgment
of God came upon them and it was because they
were just.
I think the other thing is they're, they've just exaggerated
the problem to a point, and they're just filled with
this deep lust because they end up, many people end
up dying there, and the name of the place from
(05:48):
that point on is called The Graves of Lust. So
it was their own lust that brought the, the judgment
on them. So, but, um, I wouldn't dare try to
add anything else to that brilliant answer. What about the
other doctor, Bobby Con?
I'm laughing. Brian says, I dare, I wouldn't dare try
(06:08):
to add anything to it, and he just added a
lot of great stuff. So, well, no, I said it
after I add it, and I, I mean I'm not
gonna add any more with his edition. It was enough. Well,
you guys are killing it. Um, uh, yeah, I definitely
think this is a discontentment issue. They would have had
maybe access to other things in Egypt that they didn't have,
(06:30):
as you guys said.
So it's a hard issue. Uh, they were provided on
a daily basis, and even though they would have herds
for the sacrifices, all of those sacrifices weren't meals that
would be communal, and, uh, not only that, uh, they
would have cattle, but it just because you had the
cattle didn't mean that they could killed all and eat it.
(06:52):
They had to preserve it so that they would have sacrifices. So, uh.
Given the amount of sacrifices that they had and uh
knowing that they would have to preserve livestock so that
they could have future sacrifices, and knowing that God already
set their diet for them and that all just makes
sense of the passage to me as well.
(07:14):
Very good, Mario, thank you for, oh, go ahead, Brian.
You know, one other thought. I'm not adding to who's
adding right now. This is an addition. I don't add
to scripture. It's an addendum. But again, because I just
read it, you know, a couple of hours ago, it's
so interesting where Moses says, I have 600,000 ft soldiers.
(07:34):
Where am I going to get food for these people?
Uh, who are, you know, telling me they want want food,
but I think that number is so radical, 600,000, which
shows us that the number of people that came out
of Egypt was well over a million, uh, probably 2 million.
That's fighting age men, right? That's incredible, yeah.
(07:55):
Mario, thank you for sending in your question online through kwave.com.
888-564-6173 is the number you can call to ask your questions.
And here's another one from, uh, this one's from Instagram. Actually,
Naomi wants to know if she can marry a Mormon
as a Christian. If not, what's the difference between the two? So,
(08:18):
Naomi's a Christian, her fiance or her boyfriend is a Mormon,
and she's wondering,
Is there a difference between the two? Bobby Conway would
say you.
Oh, there's a massive difference. I mean, number one, you know,
Mormonism uses the same types of terms that we use, uh,
but they mean different things. So, uh, when a Mormon
(08:41):
talks about believing that in God is a trinity, they also,
and sometimes Mormons might even be listening to the show
and then they'll try to say, well, no, this is
not what we believe, and I'm going, hey, if somebody
wants to call up, we can start reading quotes from
Uh, Brigham Young and Joseph Smith, uh, you know, there
was this idea that they believed that, you know, that
(09:02):
they could become gods. And so the upper echelon of
the Mormon leadership.
Uh, if they're holding true to the teachings, uh, they
actually believe that they can become gods, have their own
planet someday. Uh, women could be eternally pregnant. Uh, that
those are things that we don't talk about as much anymore,
(09:23):
but that's all part of some of the early apologetics
that was done with Mormonism. They believe in extra books
of the Bible, doctrines and covenants, Pearl of Great Price, uh,
the Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith has been clearly shown
to be a fraud.
Uh, and, uh, we also know archaeologically speaking that the
place is talked about in the Book of Mormon. There's
(09:44):
no evidence whatsoever, and even modern day DNA evidence has
shown that it's, uh, there's no proof, whereas when you
look at the Bible, you can go and see these places.
So that's really problematic. Uh, when it comes to salvation.
They'll say they're saved by grace, but what they really
mean is they're, they begin by grace, but then they
have to do good works. Uh, they, uh, so they
(10:07):
believe in extra books of the Bible. They don't believe
in the Trinity as we do. Uh, they believe that
they can achieve God's godhood someday. Uh, they believe that,
you know, God the Father impregnated, uh, to create, uh,
you know, the, the
Um, to create, you know, the whole human experience, which
(10:29):
is a problem, uh, picturing gods, they, they take God
as literal, uh, corporeal, bodily, uh, because they see him
like walking in the garden, so they, they see a
physical aspect to God, uh, and they believe that just as, um,
you know.
Just as God is now, we can become like that,
(10:49):
and that's really problematic. So you're believing in a workspace salvation,
a heresy about who God is, extra books of the
Bible where it says don't add a founder that was erroneous,
and yet they're very nice people. It has nothing to
do with the people that believe in Mormonism.
They're nice people. They share a lot of things that
(11:10):
in common with us our values, um, uh, uh, a
passion for marriage, uh, but I think that the, the
idea of marriage, they believe that it can go on.
So I would say that you would be unequally yoked
and you're gonna run into a lot of problems and.
That's an unfortunate thing, but hopefully it's just sharing with
(11:30):
you the truth of what we believe as Christians. And
I would think too, if they had children, are they
going to be raised as Mormon or as Christian? I mean,
that adds to the dynamic too. and that's the dynamic
so many couples have, but that's a going, yeah, Bobby,
first of all, that was awesome.
That was a very like yeah, I mean, you know,
I've got a lot more that I could add to it,
(11:52):
but it was a great no no no thank you. No, no,
that was just I was just sitting there going, good lord,
that was a great summation of the the unique different
characteristics of Mormonism. um, what I thought it was the
way that the question was kind of read is, you know,
can I do this? and then that little caveat as
a Christian, and it's like, well, I'm pretty sure that
(12:14):
whoever wrote that in, she already knows the answer.
She's she just already knows the answer that the answer
is that right? That's a, yeah, that's already a check
like you're asking like are you asking as just a
human being? Well, you have free will, you can do
whatever you want, but then you added this caveat as
a Christian. Well, OK, now, well now you're gonna hear
the whole apologetic which I thought was brilliantly done and
(12:35):
of course we can all do whatever we want, but
will it please the Lord? No, period, it just won't,
and Bobby gave great reasons why it's so uniquely different. Yeah,
and it it, you know.
Doing something intentionally that will not please the Lord is
not a wise way to live, and you can bet
your life even though right now maybe everything's good because
(12:58):
you're you're in love and you know all the emotions,
you get into a marital situation like this and you're
either gonna have to um.
Conform to Mormonism.
Um, which is not gonna be, uh, I mean, how,
how are you gonna do that if you have a
real relationship with Jesus because as Bobby just mentioned, you're
(13:19):
gonna embrace a system that is contradictory to what we
know to be true from scripture. So it's just, it
would be the height of, of, um, just.
Unwise uh.
Yeah, be foolish. Yeah, it'd be foolish. I try not
to say foolish, but it, it would be foolish to
(13:40):
do that, yeah, so, uh, and so many people could
tell the story of how they did it and then
live to regret it. And you say, oh well, maybe,
but maybe they will come to the Lord. Well, maybe,
but not through.
The means that you might be thinking. So if they're
(14:01):
gonna come to the Lord, it'll be not through marriage.
I gotta tell you, and I mean I'm sure this
is true for the you guys too like we've all
heard these stories, but then you do counseling and you're
like there it's a misery.
And everything they wanted that they thought they'd get before,
it's worse than what they thought. And so like I'm,
(14:22):
I'm the, you know, a gal's like I, I, I
wanna marry this guy. He's, I'm gonna change him. I'm
a Christian, he's not, but I'm gonna be the one
that's gonna, you know, we're gonna, I'm gonna change that,
and it just doesn't happen and it is heartbreaking how
much worse the situation becomes, especially when you have, um, uh,
you know, a religion.
Where there's pressure to, and you know, there's cultural pressure.
(14:46):
So family Mormonism has an entire culture built around it
that you are gonna be constantly pressured to embrace, um,
you know, 11 thing, um, I'm, I wanted to say, um.
I did think Bobby's answer was brilliant, but
(15:08):
And I'm not even gonna add to it, but I,
but Bobby, Bobby almost said what I want to say,
but I think this statement, it just exposes the whole thing.
Brigham Young said.
Um, as we are now, God once was, and as
God is now, we shall become. That right there should
(15:28):
tell you everything you know. That is basically saying that
God in heaven used to be a man. And so
it's like that's a problem, right? And that we could
be him. Yeah, we're, we're gonna be there.
Yeah, guys, that's, I mean, to, to, to the young
lady that, you know, reached out, I would say.
(15:49):
I, now you could be feeling some emotional trolling, and
we recognize that, you know, it's a radio show, so
we might miss the pastoral side because you, you asked
us an apologetic question, uh, but we, please know that
we're just trying to be loving, where people have been
married for a long time. We've been pastors for a
(16:10):
long time and what Pastor Brian said is true. I mean, you,
you're in the heat of feeling a connection.
So much so that you're thinking about marriage, and if
you got saved after you were dating, this is one
of the tough things, right? Or, you know, the, this,
who are we gonna follow, right? If you were saved beforehand,
(16:34):
this is one of the consequences of giving your heart
to somebody and then
Falling in love with somebody, but I would also say it's,
it's a, it's an indication for both of you that
That you've neither of you are probably where you need
to be in the profession of faith that you hold,
(16:56):
because somebody that's holding fast to Mormonism and really living
it out wouldn't date a Christian because they would know
that that's problematic. And so if Christianity is no different,
then why don't Mormons.
Go out and seek Christians to marry because they know
that it's a problem. And then why don't Christians who
are committed to Christ date Mormons because they know it's
(17:18):
a problem and so the emotion will wear off at
some point someday, not that you won't still feel love,
but just all that honeymoon excitement that's there.
Uh, what'll happen is now you've got a, a, a
father that, you know, maybe the Lord saves him, but you,
you can't marry someone on that bed. But then you've got,
(17:39):
as Brian had kids, and then what if the kids
end up believing in Mormonism and now you've, you had
kids with somebody and now you've got kids that are Mormons.
And I just think that this is one of these
things that can be really, really difficult. I would say.
Uh, maybe push pause on this. Take your relationship with
Christ seriously. Um, tell him how important it is. As
(18:02):
a Mormon, he would understand the language and how important
it is for us to be committed to our beliefs
and just then say that I really want you to
look at Christ. But let's have some space, go to church,
look into this, and then if indeed God gets a
hold of this person and he ends up being truly saved,
you can watch to see the evidence, the fruit, and
then
You can be growing, and then if he brings you
(18:24):
back together, if it's God's will for you to be married,
then give God the opportunity to save this person and
then make sure that you're aligned in that way. And
I think that would honor the Lord and protect you
from a lot of consequences down the road. And the
biggest consequence, I think, is just you losing your heart
for Jesus or just having a settled Christian faith that
doesn't really make a difference in the world, Brian.
(18:45):
Yes, the, the last thing I, I would say to,
you know, sometimes people are in a situation and I,
I'm not saying necessarily that this is the case with
the person who asked the question, but you know, you're
in a situation where you're like, well, gosh, this is
You know, I mean, what if I can't find anybody
else or, you know, this, this just seems like this
(19:06):
is the, the right thing for me and just know that,
you know, God's plan is the best plan, and God's
plan is not to go outside of what he's clearly stated,
because the Bible does say.
Not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers, and although the
context of that is not marriage, the principle is the same,
(19:26):
because what you're gonna do is you are going to
connect yourself in the deepest way. That's what it means
to be yoked. It means to be connected intimately with
uh another person, and you, you're gonna end up doing
that uh with an unbeliever and it's just it's not
a good end. That's what you have to remember.
And another thing going along with what you just said,
(19:48):
and again, not that we're saying that this is Naomi's case,
but she might say, I've dated Christian guys before. I've
met guys at church before. They're jerks. This guy, he's amazing. Yeah, yeah,
and that happens. Yeah, I mean, that's seriously, that's out there.
There's a lot of jerky Christians and there's a lot
of really great non-Christians, uh, but when it comes down
(20:08):
to it, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
Is it makes a big difference. And when it comes
down to it, it, it comes down to again the
the will of God. And so, you know, as you
seek the Lord, he's and and use wisdom, you know,
he's not gonna.
(20:28):
He's not gonna move you toward a jerky Christian versus
versus a nice Mormons, yeah, God's not doing that. Yeah,
he will, he will lead you to a good person
who genuinely loves him, but it is, it is tragic,
and we've, we've all experienced where, you know, I've talked, I've.
(20:48):
Talked to so many people, literally, um, you know, maybe
dozens and dozens wear it. They met at church, they
got married in the church. They were convinced that and,
and a lot of times it's women convinced that the
man is a believer and they act the part and
they do it all. And a couple of years into
(21:09):
the marriage, they're just like, hey, I'm done with this
Christian thing and it's just horrific. So sad. Yeah, it's
so sad. Yeah.
All right, uh, Naomi, thank you for sending in your
question online, and let's do one more that was sent
in online, then we'll go to the phones, 888-564-6173. Bree,
you will be first up on the phones, but Lisa,
(21:29):
Sent this one in. For generations, people have speculated about
the Anti-Christ. This guy or that guy must be the one.
Most recently, I've had a friend and others state that
Donald Trump is the Anti-Christ. I came back with not
enough people like him to follow him. That's funny. But
what do you say to someone who truly believes someone,
(21:50):
Trump or otherwise, is the Anti-Christ? My understanding is that
he will not reveal himself until after the rapture. What
do you guys say?
It's, I mean, the, let me just be unequivocal. it's
not Donald Trump, you know, like it's just, it's not
Donald Trump doesn't doesn't fit the bill on that, but yeah.
Um, and that's that's like a that's a politicizing of
(22:10):
a biblical reality. The Bible says it's gonna be anti-Christ
and then we're all trying to fit the person that
we don't like into that, you know, uh, but you know,
even John talks about how that there's there's many anti-Christs, right?
They like people act in the spirit of an anti
like anti-God and so no it is not Donald Trump, um,
(22:31):
it's this idea that we all we all wanna kind
of
Conject who it is and we want to throw our
concepts into there, but the Bible does not give us
who that person is. I mean, we don't know the
name of that person, uh, when that person is here,
the world will know, right? Yeah, and, and I think to,
to the question about the the rapture and, um, you know,
there is a passage in Thessalonians that that tells us
(22:53):
it's talking about this man of sin, the son of
perdition that's gonna be revealed, and it says that there
is a restraining force currently, and the question is what
is that force and
that the text doesn't really answer it, but it does
seem to fit that the presence of the spirit in
the church is is that restraining force and and perhaps
that is the case, but, um, uh, you know, all
(23:16):
of us have grown up on on prophecy, we've studied prophecy,
we've taught prophecy, and, and I think one of the
things that we just have to learn, and I don't
know if we ever will.
is not to, you know, not to jump to these conclusions. Uh,
Ronald Reagan was the Antichrist at one point in some
(23:37):
people's minds, um,
Uh, what's his name, uh, the, the, the, yeah, what
was the Secretary of, uh, state, Rockefeller, yes, yeah, Kissinger was,
I mean, he was a dead ringer for the and
obviously Adolf Hitler was like the ultimate, well, you know, yes,
of course, Mussolini, all of those, yeah, but yeah, in
more recent terms, Kissinger, so I think we just need to,
(23:59):
could we just learn to just say, you know, we
don't know that's that that doesn't sell books. We don't
know sell books and, uh, when the time comes.
Um, we will know. I, I think it will be
clear and you know, I, I think that was a
pretty clever answer, you know, not enough people like that's
funny like Trump because it does seem from scripture that
(24:21):
this person is gonna be the one that everybody's wow about, like,
oh my gosh, did you see what that guy did?
And this is amazing, and of course he must be
the savior. Well, it wasn't that long ago Obama was mentioned.
Well this is anti-Christ, you know, I mean, it just,
it flip flops yeah.
So, Bobby, any thoughts from you?
(24:42):
Um, no, uh, I would hate to add to just
that great exposition that they laid out.
Well, but you know, feel free if you, uh, if
you need to.
No, no, I'm good.
OK, Nay, uh, no, that was Lisa. Thank you for
sending in your question on Kwave.com. And now let's go
(25:05):
to the phones, Bree in Riverside listening on FM 107.9 Kwave.
Thank you for calling 888-564-6173.
Hi, thank you for taking my call. You bet. Thanks
for calling.
So my question is, uh, can a Christian be demon possessed?
And why do you ask this question?
(25:27):
Because I
I feel like I've seen it, but I, you know,
I can't guarantee, so what have you seen?
I've studied, I've kind of looked up scriptures and I've
heard a lot of Christians say that uh they cannot
be demon possessed, like it's impossible, but I haven't found
a scripture that backs that up, so it's kind of
(25:49):
confusing to me, um, just Christians that are
I don't know, acting completely outside of themselves is how
I would describe it. OK. Bobby, what would you say?
Um, I don't believe that, uh, there can be possession
for the believer. There are some people that will make
(26:10):
that case. It's hard to envision the Holy Spirit sharing
soul space with the devil or demons.
Uh, that said, the influence can be very powerful, and
I think it could, uh, mimic a lot of what
possession could look like on some level and not on
(26:32):
another level. Uh, when you think of like true possession, it,
I've been a Christian for over 30 years, and perhaps
I've seen somebody that's deemed possessed, but I don't, and
I hope that I never do.
But I can't think of an experience where I would
be able to say for certain that person's demon possessed.
(26:53):
And why is that? Well, what kind of evidence would
we have for what would entail possession?
Um, it seems as if the demons would have a
special knowledge, um, a strength. You think about the guy
breaking the chains off of himself, um, a, a knowledge
about things, um, you know, if I saw somebody speaking
(27:15):
in a language that they couldn't speak, that was in
a freaky kind of way, um, those type of things,
the type of
Instances with Christians, it's more of an oppression, not possession. Doubts, temptation, fear, uh, anxiety,
just uh just hopelessness, um.
(27:39):
Temptation that just feels like it won't lift, uh, the, the,
a sense of dark presence, uh, you know, strange emotions,
that's kind of the flavor of oppression, and that stuff
is there with possession, but you don't see a believer,
you know,
(28:00):
Just outwardly working against Jesus in the sense that you
would see somebody possessed, nor would you see them flipping
over a car or some of these other type of
stories that you can hear. So I do think that
people are demon possessed. I think that there's people that
Speak too freely on that. Oh this and which for
(28:21):
all listeners, we all have to be very careful that
we don't just call somebody possessed. I mean, most of
us aren't bumping into demon possessed people, and if we do, uh,
I don't think we're gonna really have to discern a
whole lot. You'll recognize that there's something really crazy going
on here.
And so sadly because of a lot of what goes
(28:44):
on in some of the ultra charismatic churches, uh, there's
so much possession and oppression, it's everywhere that that can
create problems for people. If, if so, in other words,
if we don't know what it is, then we might
think believers have it. But once we know what it is,
I think we're going to be hard pressed to think
of a true believer that is exhibiting the type of
(29:07):
things that go along with possession.
Brian, 30 seconds.
30 seconds, yeah, um, there is a, a passage in
scripture that I think will, um, help you. First John
5:18 says, for, uh, it says, we know that anyone
born of God does not continue to sin. The one
who was born of God keeps them safe and the
(29:29):
evil one cannot touch them.
Um, and the word, the, the actual Greek word there
is a word that means to possess, cannot possess them.
So I think that's a, that's a, a scriptural basis
for no Christian demon possession. plus there's no example in scripture.
Of a Christian ever being demon possessed. There's no instruction on, hey,
(29:54):
if somebody in the church gets possessed, this is how
you deal with it, which I think there would be
if it was a possibility. We'll see what Bree thinks
of those answers when we come back on Pastor's perspective.
(30:17):
Hey, we're back on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is the number
to call us today. I'm Brian Perez here with Brian Broderson,
Bobby Conway, and Phil Metzger. 25 more minutes to go.
What would you like to know? 888-564-6173. We were speaking
with Bree in Riverside. She called in wondering if a
believer can be demon possessed. We gave you our answers. Bree,
(30:40):
what did you think?
Yeah, so I totally understand the oppression um that we
believers face. I think this one, these people that I
was thinking of, um, it's a little bit more extreme
though because I've, I've heard like them shriek.
And then I've also seen it kind of changed to
(31:03):
like a light switch where it's like there's something behind
them and they're a different person, and it just seems demonic.
And who knows, maybe they're not a Christian, they call
themselves a Christian, but it just seemed very unusual to me. Uh,
you know, one thing I would say, Bree, in, in
this area, we really need to
Lean into and stand on scripture versus um experience because I've,
(31:28):
all of the all of those Christians that I know
who do believe in Christian demon possession, they will base,
they will base their conviction on experience. They'll say, well,
I saw this and I just, you know, I know
that's what it was. I had a conversation with a
woman one time who um told me that she was
(31:48):
a Christian who was demon possessed.
And now she was delivered and I
As nicely as I could. I told her, well, listen,
you were not demon possessed. If you were a Christian,
now it's possible that maybe you weren't a Christian, maybe
it's just you grew up in church and you assumed,
but you know, we, we have to go back to
(32:10):
scripture as our basis for.
Determining these things, not like, well, you know, I saw
this or I heard this, and I, I would tell
you too, and I think Phil and Bobby would affirm this,
I have seen people over the years who thought they
were possessed and did things that looked like they were possessed,
(32:35):
but they weren't, and it was more of a an
emotional manipulation type of a thing that was happening.
Um, and I learned, a learned behavior. It's like, oh,
this is what demon possessed people do, and so I'm
gonna come into the church, I'm gonna fall down and
roll around and scream and make crazy noises. I've actually
witnessed that, but in the end it was like, well,
(32:59):
But there's, there's not a demon here. This is, this
is just a person acting it out. But not to
say that there aren't people who are demon possessed, but
they're not Christians in the biblical sense if they are
possessed to that. Yeah, which is I I think Bree,
like I was glad that you did hear you say
that too, like maybe they weren't saved, but that's people
(33:20):
can be demon possessed.
Christians cannot be demon possessed based on scripture. So yeah,
I think that's such a good point, Brian. I've had
so many people tell me that like they've, but it
always goes back to experience, which I mean when it
comes to my faith in Christ, I love experience, but
if it can't be rooted in scripture, then I really
have to challenge the experience. We do, yeah.
(33:41):
Yeah, thank you so much. I appreciate all the um
opinions and um insights. All right. Thank you for calling
us today on Pastor's Perspective. You know, in, um, powers
of Darkness and people of God, I actually have an
appendix in there on this very subject. So, um, yeah,
that's available for purchase on the Back to Basradio.com website
(34:02):
under store, and you can get it in Spanish if
you want.
It's there, back to Basradio.com. 888-564-6173 is our number. Let's
read another question that was sent in online, and then
Eric will talk to you. First, here's a question from
Ben and Kim.
My question is about ending a relationship with my mother.
(34:22):
It's hard because she really has nobody. She has pushed
everybody out of her life and refuses to change or
get help. We're not sure if it's mental illness or
just unhealthy behavior. I have a son with a genetic
disease that is fatal.
Numerous times my mom has stated to me that he
is not healed because of my lack of faith. I
tried to explain to her that that's not biblical, that
(34:45):
I do believe God can heal him, but that if
he doesn't, it's also his will that he is using
my son and my life and the lives of others
because of his situation. It's just gotten to be too much.
This is a hard disease, and having someone so negative
and discouraging around just makes it harder.
Is it biblical to cut her out of my life? Bobby,
(35:07):
what do you say?
Wow.
Talk about a lot of pressure. I mean, that is,
that is a cross right there. I mean.
To have a situation where, you know, you're feeling like.
I'm responsible to heal for the heal this person. I mean,
that's just overwhelming.
(35:29):
Uh
I think that I would do your best to realize
that she's scrambling and hurt and struggling and handling it
very wrong, but just remember your identity in Christ and
remember that people sometimes really hurt people when they're hurting,
and this is a prime case of that. I hope
(35:52):
you don't have to eliminate the relationship, but I do
think setting up boundaries around.
Being a scapegoat of what's going on is unacceptable and
that it's not fair and to, to put that kind
of pressure to heal. I mean, if, if prayer works
(36:14):
so powerful, uh, in her opinion, then why doesn't God
heal hear her prayer? I mean, why is it on you, right?
So it's just an unfortunate situation.
Uh, I would say that boundaries can be important, but,
but you don't want to have to eliminate the relationship, right?
(36:36):
That should be a last resort. Have the conversation, I'm
sure you have, uh, ask if she will not bring
it up, if she's just gonna continue to talk with
you about it, then I think giving you some space
until she's ready to enter into a relationship where it's
not your res you're you're not the, you know, the
one she's finding.
Faultless. Uh, that's what I would say. Uh, uh, we
(36:59):
are living in a time as it relates to boundaries
where the research is coming in on the therapeutic culture.
Like we grew up in a context as um Gen
Xers where there wasn't.
You know, a lot of mental health discussion. Now everybody's
talking mental health and everybody thinks that they're a therapist
and diagnosing people and, and what's crazy is we were
(37:21):
the culture that was free, we could roam, we could
do things and uh we weren't talking about our emotions
all the time. We weren't sitting in counseling places and
yet we've had more counseling, and now we're starting to
assess it and go, and the kids are kind of
having a lot of issues. So, uh, I think that
what they're doing.
Now is all this safe space is you have counselors
(37:44):
telling people to write their parents off and loved ones
off because they're not safe. And now if boundaries become
something as an excuse for us not to grow, then
that's a problem. But when you are trying to grow
and it's just really problematic, then I think that they're there.
And so boundaries are kind of a last resort, not
a first resort. Phil? Wow, yeah, that's good. I like
(38:08):
that context of Gen X too, Bobby, that was great.
Yeah, I mean, I mean my gosh, you're like in
a rock and a hard place, it's like it's your mom,
but then it's your kid and your first priority is
your kid.
And there's no Bible verse that's gonna tell you what
to do. What does it mean to honor your mother
and father in that context? That's, um, you know, I
really think like what Bobby said there, hold relationship in
(38:28):
as much as you can, if there's gotta be pausing,
if there's gotta be, you know, kind of like maybe
there's like, hey, I don't want my son to be
around because I don't want him hearing this, like this is,
you know, those kinds of things might stir your mom
towards
You know, or maybe not, you know, and these, these
things are tough, man, as much as you can hold relationship,
I think that was a good word, Bobby, we gotta
(38:49):
try to hold relationship, whatever the cost, you know, and
especially as an adult, if you're able to see it
for what it is, your mom's displaying some really irrational, unhealthy, unhelpful.
Words, as long as you can hold that, then it
doesn't have to impact you so much, you know, um,
I guess if it doesn't have to, if it ain't
(39:09):
sticking to you, then you know, maybe you you can
hold on to that relationship. If it's gonna burden you
and just crush you, that's gonna be tough, man. That's
a that's a hard situation.
Ben and Kim, thank you for sending in your question
on Facebook. And now here's Eric and Belle, who listens
to the Pastor's perspective podcast. Hi there, Eric. Thank you
for calling in today. Uh, hello, gentlemen, good afternoon. Good afternoon.
(39:33):
Um, I just wanna just by saying what a blessing
you guys have been to my life. Um, Pastor Bobby, um,
some of the stories you guys have shared, you shared, um,
and the openness to share your stories with us is,
it just makes me admire, admire you more besides the
fact that you're a genius to me. Um, that's kind
(39:54):
of you. Thank you, bro.
Uh, Pastor Brian and Pastor Phil, you're
Pastoral heart just, man, I wish I had you guys' wisdom.
So I just really admire you guys. Thanks to her.
You guys have been to us for me. We, we
appreciate that. Thank you.
Um, so I'm, I'm currently without work. Um, I'm not
(40:16):
saying that to, you know, all for me, but I
just wanted to make much of my time since I'm
currently without work and decided to, um, read the Bible
from beginning to end, something I've never done, so I
intention of doing that, uh, until I find work, um, I.
Currently finished uh Genesis with my wife and I had
(40:36):
a question on it, uh, specifically on Genesis 39 Gentlemen. Um,
this is where, uh, uh, chapter 27, verse 29, verse 39,
excuse me, this is the background on this, I'm sure
you guys are aware is where, um, Jacob is blessed, um.
Uh, excuse me, Isaac blesses Jacob and not Esau, um,
(40:59):
but then, uh, Esau, um, is also given somewhat of
a blessing in verse 39, um, um, but, uh, reading,
because I take your guys' advice by reading other versions where,
you know, things that are not too clear.
It can be clearer to me. And so, uh, reading
that verse, um, it seems to be like there's a
(41:19):
bit of discrepancy, but, um, I, I'm sure there's an
explanation to it. Um, from my understanding, what, let's, for example,
the new Living translation on that verse, it reads that
ethos will partake in, um, let me see, let me
read it exactly how it, how it reads.
Um, he says, uh, finally his father Isaac said to
(41:41):
said to him, You will live away from, from the
riches of the earth and away from the dew of
the heaven above. So that's the new living translation, how
it reads. Uh, but then you would, if you go
to the new, uh, to the new King James.
It reads, uh, then Isaac, his father answered and said
to him, Behold, your dwellings shall be of the of
(42:03):
the fatness of the earth and of the dew of
the heaven from above. So it kind of seems on
the new, new living translation side that he is gonna,
he's gonna be, he's not gonna enjoy um
It's not gonna enjoy the riches of the land of
the earth, but yet you read the new King King's
(42:23):
version and it says, you will dwell, um, of the
sadness of the earth. So I was hoping you guys
can maybe, you know, make that clear to me. Uh,
is it? I actually have a, I have an answer
myself what I think it is, but, um, wanted to
hear you guys, your guys's answer.
Phil, yeah, and I'll tell you I'm looking at it
(42:44):
on the screen here. It does say you will live
away from the ris of the earth, it almost? Yeah,
so you're talking about two different, like, so when let's
just use New King James and New Living, but really
behind the scenes we're talking about two different original texts
that we're working off of. And so when we talk
about New King James or King James, if I, if
(43:05):
I say those, those are the two that we're talking about.
That takes a more literal approach, so the use of
that phrase from may suggest that, now listen, there's some
that would say it suggests a softening of the kind
of the blow that Esau was experiencing.
It's also very possible, and the new King James and
King James are quite literal translations, so it's possible that
(43:27):
it's simply a description of where Esau would dwell. He
would dwell in these in this place, this place where
there is fatness and all that kind of stuff. In
the New Living, I'm just using that one particular
But that comes from a different set of, of, uh, texts,
original texts. It's a bit more contextual and a little
(43:47):
bit more maybe theological to the idea that Esau is
outside of the covenant of God in the same way
that Jacob was receiving the blessing Esau was not. So
one seems to be more focused on like the theological
nature of the covenant, the other may be softened to
express a literal nature of the fact that
(44:08):
Esau would dwell in a place where there was fatness.
So you have kind of two different approaches, a literal
translation to that or like a literal theological expression of that. B. Yeah,
I think um it's interesting that all of the of
the what we would call the newer translations like the
(44:29):
uh NIV and the ESB and the NASB and the
NET for that matter, all of them say away from.
And so it is only the new King James and
probably the King James as well. It does, yeah, yeah.
And I think, um, one of the things I've, I've
kind of done a deep dive into some of these
things at times because the King James, and, and here's
(44:53):
where it gets a little bit challenging too because with
the Old Testament, the distinction is not as sharp. So
with the New Testament, we have the critical text and
then we have the text receptus. With the Old Testament,
we have the massoretic text is the main text that
everybody's drawing from.
So it's not, um, there's not like this, you know,
this like, oh, here's one text here and here's another one,
(45:15):
and this one says this and the other one says that.
A lot of times it comes down to the way
they understand the structure of the Hebrew language and sometimes it's,
you know, one interpreter says, no, I think, I think
this is the better structure, and another one says, no,
I think this is the better, and it could go
(45:35):
either way.
So I think that's probably what you have here, but
I mean, obviously, on the one hand, the point is
he's gonna be away from this. That's
Right, it's quite literally, yeah, that's a theological, but the
literal is he's, he's, you know, when we read about
Esau further on in the history, Esau's blessed, you know,
(45:55):
he's the prince over these tribes. He comes to Jacob
and he's got all of this, uh, wealth and he's,
oh my brother, you know, let me take care of
you and all this stuff. So literally where he dwelt
is exactly what Jacob described. Yeah, and so I think
we can't, it's, it's not one of those things to.
Lose any sleep over. It's not an either or, right, right.
(46:16):
I think that's exactly it, yeah. Quickly, Eric, what is
your thought?
Um, well, I thought, uh, what, uh, Pastor Brian shared
in the end, um, it's what he's describing is in
Genesis 33 nights where, um, Jacob and, uh, Eesop meet
again and, um, and, um, let me see, and I
(46:37):
think it's Jacob offers, you know, all these presents to Esau,
but I said it's OK. I have more than enough.
So I because of that, um.
Conclusion, I, I mean, I, because of that, I came
to the conclusion that, um, the new King James was
the more maybe accurate, uh, translation, but, um, now I
(46:58):
understand it, it doesn't necessarily need to be one or
the other could be both like you guys were describing.
So thank you, gentlemen. I really appreciate it. Yeah. Bobby,
any thoughts from you?
Well, my new buddy Chat GPT, uh, had this that
I thought was interesting, um, in Hebrew, um, it comes
(47:19):
down to the preposition, how it's used it, how the
trans translators understand the verse, and it says the Hebrew
word me can either mean from in the sense of source,
that is, you'll receive from the fatness.
Or away from in the sense of separation, you'll live
away from the fatness. And so for those that are interested,
(47:41):
you can pay 20 bucks a month. I have been
blown away by Chat GPT. I like I've, I've been
a long time log O Bible user and I use
that on the program, uh, when I'm trying to quickly navigate.
And this thing for 20 bucks a month is so
much more superior, and I'm not saying it doesn't make mistakes,
(48:05):
but I have been blown away by, um, the Bible
knowledge that that it gives. It's insane. Like I'm literally
just like, I have, I'm preaching through John.
I have, I preached through it before and I probably
got 500 pages of notes. I can take my sermons
now that I have rough notes. I drop it in
(48:27):
the chat and I say, Hey, can you edit and
then make my points that I already have whistle better.
It doesn't even think. It kicks it back to me.
I have a completely edited manuscript, so you could go
back through as pastors all of your sermons, drop it
in chat.
It'll make it totally like book ready edited and you've
(48:49):
done the work. The danger is for those up and
coming preachers that haven't done the hard work, they could just, hey,
give me a sermon for it, and then that's where
plagiarism falls in. But when you've got the stuff and
you dropped the content in, it's like having an editor,
it's amazing. Not only that, just for one more plug
because it can really help you in Bible study.
With my art, I, I'm drawing and I can, I
(49:11):
can draw a picture and then I, I say, what
do you think of this? Have I captured the essence?
And it, it doesn't even think. It immediately says, you
need to drop the upper lip.
Do just a hair's breadth. I'm like, how does it
know it, it knows my image and, and, and it
tells me what to do. And I'm like, oh, that's
a good catch. Or if you shade in a little
(49:34):
bit more, it'll help it look more realistic. I, I'm
so I'm like,
Recognizing this could be really dangerous where now people will
be talking about God the Father, God the Son, and
Chat GPT is is the Holy Spirit. I hope we
don't go that way, but it definitely can be a
coach in a lot of areas. So Chad GPT helped
(49:54):
me on this. Thanks for giving me a reason to
reach out to my friend. Are you getting a kickback
on that? I was gonna say, yeah.
Yesterday I was telling people to donate to Bobby's ministry.
It sounds like Chat GPT is supporting him, so, you know,
I don't think there's a need now. You know, I
just read literally before I came over. I, I read
(50:15):
something that was, it was a kid who was graduating
from college and he was showing his graduation paper that
he had done with Chad GPT and the, the person
who posted it said education is over. It's, it's like
done right.
Yeah, so what are gonna be some of the ethics, right,
of chat GPT that we could say because I, I
(50:37):
worry about emerging ministry people that the shortcut's gonna be
too like, man, we just had to learn that like,
you remember guys, the days when we were doing it,
I mean you had to get all the book you
had like 10 books laid out and one of them
was strong the strongs it was just a complete nightmare yeah.
But I think, I think Bobby, what you're saying is
(50:58):
a good point that we have to like the danger
is gonna be too many people saying it's all evil
and people are gonna use it anyways instead of like, no,
there's just right ways to use every tool. Every tool
has its, you know, there's a way to use a screwdriver,
use a screwdriver in the right way, it'll get the
job done. AI is no different, it's you know, we
can't say no, we have to say just use it,
(51:19):
source it right, source it well. So I, I have
a friend and.
Uh, Phil, you know, you know him, and I'm not
sure if you do, Bobby, but he's, he loves Chat
GBT and he, he actually, uh, he, he lives in
a place where he doesn't drive too much, but he
will reserve his drives to have conversations with Chat GPT. So,
you know, he'll go around, he'll ask.
(51:40):
Oh, is this the guy you got in the car with? Yeah,
I got in the car with him. So we're driving along,
and he had told me that before and I thought
this is crazy. And he says, Hey, you wanna let's
let's talk to Chad GBT and that's OK, well, uh,
this is what you do. So anyway, he says, ask
it a question and I had just been doing this.
I listened to this whole, uh, series on the history
of Peter the Great, and I said, OK, you know, let's,
(52:03):
let's talk about Peter the Great. So Chat GPT, you know,
starts telling us all this stuff about Peter the Great.
I say, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, this is all
the stuff that I.
Had, um, read and heard and so then, then my
friend says, OK, Chad GBT could you do a comparison
between Peter the Great and, uh, Pastor Brian Broderson? That's
when it got super crazy, you know, the Chat GBT
(52:25):
is like, well, you know, it's a, it's a little
bit difficult to compare them because of course.
to the great, you know, was a, was a ruler
of a country and, you know, uh, Brian is a,
he's a shepherd over God's people. I mean, it's just,
it was quite complimentary to me. I was thinking, wow,
they found the good stuff on the internet all the
let me give it some more sources. No, please don't.
(52:49):
Yeah, there's people that like set it up to like
get getting daily encouragement and stuff like that and I'm like, jeez.
Crazy. What a world. What a world. All right, we're
running out of time, but let's see how many more
calls we can squeeze in. Daniel and Tustin, welcome to
Pastor's Perspective. How can we help you?
Speaker 2 (53:08):
Hi guys, uh, I'm pretty I don't know if you
guys remember me, but um, I was the on and
off Christian that left the email for, I think it
was Brian, um, the, the, the one about, um, that
if it was about me not, you know, being with
my wife and, and so, well yeah, me not uh
(53:28):
following God because I've had marital issues with my wife
and um.
Yeah, so, uh, I, today I was calling uh in
regards to a different question, um, based off numerology. Today
I was listening to, um,
Uh, Pastor Chuck Smith's, uh, teaching about, um, I don't
know if it was about numerology, but he was basically, um,
(53:52):
saying that there are certain numbers like in the Bible
that some people would say, like, I, I, I, I'm
not sure if they have any meaning to it, but
my question for you guys is, is there any like, um,
Biblical um confirmation that God or angels do speak to
(54:13):
us through numbers or like, do we get any form
of communication from the Lord through numbers?
Speaker 1 (54:20):
Brian, what would you say? Got about 45 seconds.
Uh, well, Daniel, I, I would say that um we
shouldn't look for numbers to be speaking to us. We,
we just need to look to the, you know, the
plain statements in the, in the biblical text, and, uh,
you know, in scripture, you do have places where you
see numerical patterns and the patterns seem to point to something. Uh,
(54:42):
7 is the most obvious, 7 points to completion, and
you see that in, um, you know, God created the
earth in 6 days on the 7th day he rested.
Um, but then to the Book of Revelation, you see
the number 7 occurring a number of times and it's
obvious that that it's speaking about a certain pattern and
a and a fulfillment of something. But then, you know, people,
(55:04):
oh well, the number 12, it stands for government because
there were 12 tribes in of of Israel and the number.
Uh, 5 stands for grace because, um, of this and,
and so forth. And a lot of that is just,
it's speculation and so you don't want to go around
looking for like numerical patterns to see how God's speaking
to you. He's speaking to you, you know, primarily right
(55:26):
through the, the plain statements of scripture. So that's where
you wanna stay.
Connected. Daniel, thank you for calling in today on Pastor's Perspective.
We've run out of time, sorry that we couldn't get
to all of your calls, but we'll be back tomorrow
between 3 and 4 in the afternoon, so we look
forward to speaking to you then. Thanks for watching on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram.
(55:48):
We're gonna archive later on Facebook, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and
Spotify on behalf of Brian Broderson, Bobby Conway and Phil Metzger.
I'm Brian Perez. Thanks for listening and watching Pastor's Perspective.
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