June 27, 2025 • 56 mins
Pastors' Perspective is a one-hour call-in program where listeners can call in and get answers to questions about the Bible, Christianity, family, and life. The program is live Monday through Friday from 3:00 PM - 4:00 PM Pacific. You can call 888-564-6173 to ask your questions.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:18):
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez,
and we are here live on this Thursday, June 26th,
626 day, stitch day, whatever. Anyway, give us a call
if you've got a question about the Bible, the Christian faith,
just about anything that's on your mind. 888-564-6173 is our number.
(00:38):
If you're watching us on Facebook, YouTube or Instagram, thanks
for watching.
Uh, the numbers right there on the bottom of the screen.
Don't just watch, participate, call in, and ask your questions.
We're gonna be here for the full hour. There's other
ways to get your questions to us as well, but
the best way to get your question answered is to
call us when we're here. 888-564-6173 is our number. And
(01:01):
here to answer your questions today, we've got Phil Metzger,
the pastor of Calvary San Diego. How you doing, Phil?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Hey guys, good. I'm so glad to be on with
you guys.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yes, it's gonna be a great show. Earlier today, I
was having lunch at the El Pollo Loco over here
on Harbor Boulevard, and I saw Sean Havelar there, who
would have known that 2 hours later he was going
to be on the program with me. Sean, it's fun.
Hey Brian Popolls. Yeah, that's right. We're ready. We're ready.
Sean is a pastor at Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa. He's
(01:31):
also the executive director of Mission and Care.
Actually, on the website there's a plus sign, so I
should say executive director of Mission Plus Care. But, uh, Sean,
first time here, first time. Are you a little nervous? Yes,
you are. I can see sweat just pouring out. No, no,
I'm just used to rolling with it. I mean, it's
as long as Phil's here, we're good. is here sauce
(01:52):
to the to the chicken sandwich here. So he's calling
you a chicken, Phil. I heard
Speaker 2 (01:55):
that. OK. Well, El Pollo grilled chicken, there's a lot
of chicken going on in this. There is.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
All right, 888-564-6173, and you guys know each other. How
long have you known each other? What's your, what's your past?
What's your history? 22 years? Wow, 22 years, yeah, we
met in Hungary. I was doing a six week youth
discipleship program that Phil had, I think he had the
vision for a few months even before I arrived. It
wasn't like a long lead time and the Lord just
(02:25):
brought us together as friends. He is super impactful to
my wife and I. He married us.
And so, um, they were both involved in our wedding
and missions and so many amazing God stories on the way.
So yeah, just grateful for our friendship, true brother. So
Speaker 2 (02:42):
yep,
I love that guy, love his whole family, glad he's
serving the church there, Costa Mesa.
He's a good basketball player for all of you listening.
He's a great basketball player and, uh, Los Angeles Lakers fan,
so he's allowed to be on the show. And, uh, yeah, no, I, I,
I love, we love to have alas, we love Sean.
He's an amazing guy. So, yeah, this is fun. I
(03:03):
always enjoy being with, um, the great people you have on,
but this is
It's especially fun to have Sean.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Yeah, for having me. Yeah, for sure. 888-564-6173 is our number.
So you can also send in your questions online using
Facebook Messenger, the pastor's perspective Facebook Messenger, to be more specific,
or you can DM us on the Pastor's Perspective Instagram,
or you can go to Kwave.com.
There's a banner there that's got my head on it.
(03:30):
If you click on my forehead, that will take you
to the page where you can fill out the form
and get your question to us. Or if you're watching
on Facebook, YouTube, or Instagram, we've got a QR code there.
You can scan that, and that'll take you to that
page without you having to flick on my forehead. So
get your question to us, however you'd like, but the
best way to get an answer, like I said, is
to call. Here's Mark's question. Mark is in Fullerton, and
(03:51):
he sent this one in. I was watching The Passion
of the Christ again.
And it provides my question. Why did Pilate say, I
wash my hands of this matter after the crowd sentenced
Jesus to death? Did that act of washing his hands
buy any points for him with God? Phil, what would
you say to Mark?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Uh, Mark, great movie. Boy, Passion of the Christ. That's,
I'm glad to go back to that. It's been a
long time since, uh, I thought of that movie. Um,
but obviously, that event is in the Bible in terms
of Pilate just trying to kind of wash his hands
of that. No. It gives him absolutely no brownie points
with God though. That there's no, uh, you know, God
isn't like, oh, well, gosh, Pilate washed his hands of that,
(04:32):
so that's OK. In fact, it's quite the opposite.
When Jesus described indifference in the Bible, he says, you're
either for me or against me. There is no such
thing as being indifferent to God. So in that moment
when Pilate says, hey, you know, you people want this,
and I think this, but I'm just gonna wash my
hands of that. He was really doing exactly what Jesus said.
(04:55):
If you say, oh, I don't know, I don't know,
and I, you know, I'm not gonna make a decision,
then you are making a decision against God. So no,
he was not given any brownie points for doing that.
That's something that maybe man would say, Oh, well, that
was nice of him to be neutral, but to be
neutral before God is actually to be against God. It's
to reject God. So, Pilate's decision was a, was actually
(05:17):
a very damning decision for his own, his own soul.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
So this leads to another question that we've had often.
I don't think I've ever heard this one before, but
the one where, um, like Mark said, by Pilate saying, uh,
I wash my hands, it's not gonna win him any
brownie points or anything, but what about like when Jesus
from the cross said, Father, forgive them for they know
not what they do. Were they like automatically exonerated or
(05:44):
all those people there? What would you say, Sean?
Yeah, I think it just speaks to the nature of God,
you know, and, and he is the expressed image of God, right? Like,
so Jesus reflecting the heart of God and the way
that he had compassion on those that he was going
to the cross for. And so I think even going
back to the pilot.
Question, thanks for that, Mark. It was the washing of
(06:07):
the hands can be an expression of also too maybe
the guilt or like I don't want to be a
part of this, but as we know from even creation
that when there's guilt, there's a temptation for us to
try and cover ourselves up or clean ourselves, which we
know isn't sufficient, so.
Mark, thank you for sending in your question through Kwave.com.
And let's do one more that was sent in online,
and then we'll go to the phones at 888-564-6173. This
(06:31):
one is from Cathy in Lynnwood, Washington, uh, who has
a follow-up question from a program we did about a
week ago when we were asked on the program, if
an adulterer, someone who has divorced for irreconcilable differences, gets remarried, uh,
can that person be a Christian?
Uh, we basically said, or, or according to Cathy, uh,
(06:54):
Pastor Brian basically gave them a pass so long as
they are contrite in heart.
God forgives them just go on with their life. So
Cathy says, my question is, 1 Corinthians 6:9 says, Willful sinners,
my paraphrase, won't inherit the kingdom of God, which seems
pretty unconditional. If the adulterer gets a pass, even though
they continue in their adulterous marriage but feel contrition about it,
(07:18):
why don't the other sinners listed get a pass? I
have a transgender nephew. If he becomes a Christian.
Can he continue his testosterone treatments and breast augmentation and
still be a Christian so long as he is truly
contrite in his heart? Phil, what say you?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Boy, that's a, there's a lot there, and, um, boy,
there's just a lot there. Goodness gracious. OK, so it's
almost like a couple different questions in there. So forgive me, um,
this is, what was her name? Um, she's in Lynnwood. Cathy,
all right, so Cathy, and for everybody listening or watching,
let's start with the first one, and I think the
first one is just the idea of like, um, was
(07:58):
Pastor Brian giving somebody a pass that they're no longer,
you know, they, they, they had sinned and then they
got remarried, and hey, we want to be repentant of that.
Does this qualify within that 1 Corinthians 6:9 of willful sinning,
and I think that there is a bit of maybe
misunderstanding to the idea that like,
If someone divorces, and the reasons were not.
(08:18):
You know, it wasn't good. It wasn't a good thing.
Or there had been an adult adulterous relationship. And then
that person repents of those things, and then everybody just
kind of moves on and, and then people remarry. I'm
not sure that the Bible's expressing the idea that if you've,
if you sinned against your wife and it ended your
marriage and you divorced, that you are then perpetually in sin,
(08:38):
that you are consistently and continuously in willful sin. At
that point, you know, you have repented and hopefully you've
made things right, but it might not lead to being remarried.
And so you are, you, you know, you've, you've broken
that covenant, but that doesn't mean that you're allowed forever
and ever in sin. No more than any one of
us when we sin. Uh, we need to repent of that.
(08:59):
We need to get right with God. And by the way,
the only way we could ever really repent of any
sin is because God by His Spirit showed us that
we needed to repent of that. It's actually not even
in me on my own.
But God is working that graciously. So I definitely don't know.
I don't, I don't wanna speak for Brian, but I
think I, I, I think I can pretty, pretty comfortably
to say, in no way is anyone suggesting that it's
(09:20):
just like, you can continue in willful sin, but if
you've divorced because of an adulterous relationship, and you've repented
of that adulterous relationship, then you are no longer living
in willful sin.
Um, Sean, do you want to talk about that second part,
or do you, you guys want me to continue? Um,
I don't wanna. You're good, you're good.
Good. OK. So I'll just mention a little bit on
the idea of like, because I think that second question
(09:42):
is about having a transgender nephew. And, and, and I
know that this is a, this opens up, there's a lot,
there's a lot we could talk about. But let me
say this. So I'm gonna repeat the question, if he
becomes a Christian, can he continue with his treatments and
breast augmentation and still be a Christian?
Let's just start with what really matters. I mean, seriously,
let's just get to what really matters. Let's hope and
pray the person becomes a Christian first. Before we worry
(10:06):
about the what ifs of, well, can they do this
and can they do that? I, I get that it matters,
and I don't want to minimize that, Kathy, or whoever
is interested in this point. It's not me trying to
say that doesn't matter, but I really want to emphasize
the point. If, uh, we should just really hope that
this person becomes a Christian. Cause let me tell you
what happens when a person truly is born again.
(10:26):
God begins a work, and the Bible tells us that
God's work in us begins inwardly, and it affects every
single part of our lives. So rather than me saying,
oh no, they have to stop this augmentation, they got
to stop these testosterone, uh, you know, medication, rather than
me saying that, let me make it very clear. When
someone gives their life to Christ, there will be whole
(10:48):
person transformation that God does.
It may not fit in my time frame or your
time frame, but I promise you that the work of
the Spirit is a full and complete work in all
of our lives. God is doing things in me, and
he's still changing me. He's doing that in Sean and Brian,
all of us. And so, rather than me answering, do
they have to stop those things, that becomes a slippery
(11:10):
slope for me. Um, if you're asking the question like,
You know, do they need to, you know, renormalize their
understandings of gender? I believe in a full work of
the Holy Spirit through salvation that he will do that
work in every single one of us. And, uh, but I,
I'd rather avoid the idea that like, well, this is
when it's gonna happen, and this is how it's gonna happen.
I just know that when God's doing the work, man,
(11:31):
he does a full work. I, I, I believe in that. Sean.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Yeah, these are very nuanced. I mean, that the two
of them being packed together is, is actually really difficult
because I think what we're talking about is the hard issue.
Like we're saying, I know what's going on in your
heart and and sometimes we do. The Bible talks about
like the faith and works and the outworking of those things,
but I think the main priorities is we're not defined
(11:56):
by what we don't do, right? If there is that.
Renewal of the spirit being born again, being filled with
the spirit, there will be conviction. There will be, there's
going to be a process to both understanding the sanctification
and being patient with people in that, but understanding also
that there is an element of of understanding of grace
in it, right? Like this is grace allows us to
(12:17):
be patient with people in their process, right? Um, because
sometimes we will allow the sin to define a person
and I think sometimes.
Yeah, I, if you look in my rearview mirror, and
I'm sure if you look in Phil's rearview mirror yours, Brian,
there are things that we could be defined by. But thankfully, um,
just as Jesus told the woman gotten adultery, right? Like,
neither do I condemn you, right? So there's a point
(12:39):
where there is a shift and a change that that
is no longer your identity. And, and I think some
of those things with speaking of the nephew, it's just
one of those things to be, to be present, to
be prayerful, to be encouraging, and to continue to point
to the love and the grace of God. So, yeah.
When I see those things in the rearview mirror, I
put the pedal to the metal. I'm just like, I
(12:59):
don't wanna see it.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Stay away. All right, Cathy, thank you for sending in
your question, and now we're gonna go to the phones.
We've got Fabiola in Murrieta listening on FM 107.9 K wave.
Thank you for calling in today. You are on with
Pastor Phil Metz, excuse me, Doctor Phil Metzger and Pastor
Sean Havilar. Welcome to the program, Fabiola.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Thank you so much. Uh.
Hello, reading blessings. Uh, my question is
And I'm talking more like about a Christian.
Sometimes, uh, we're overwhelmed and stuff and even though you've
already given your life to Christ and everything.
What does the Bible say about somebody who's already saved
(13:43):
and maybe he's having a hard time and they commit suicide?
Is that a sin? Or in my humble opinion, I
think that God knows that
Speaker 1 (13:51):
there's obviously something wrong for you to do that.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
And I, and being a Christian, do you think he, uh,
forgives us? or is it something that you died?
With um not giving that forgiveness from God.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
So why do you ask this question, Fabiola?
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Because I'm a born again
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Christian.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Um, I'm actually ordained as well, and I'm a missionary,
and I've been working really hard in Mexico, and, um,
whatever he tells me to do, I just do it.
I don't ask questions. And so, um, I've been going
through it lately. Um, I've been, I was sick and
I had surgery on my carotid artery, and, um, my
(14:32):
right side isn't 100% yet, and I'm still in a
wheelchair and um I know that God has me and
I know that.
Any bad situation, you can, you know, you can get
something good from it. And so, um, I was talking
to my friend, like, I'm already ready to go, like
I'm ready for God to come and get me, um,
because
(14:52):
I just feel like I've been ready.
Um, and, um,
I, I tell him like right now I know God
still wants me to do, but once I'm done, like
I'm ready to go.
Um,
So,
I was telling him if, if, if you get to
the point where you want to kill yourself, and I
know there's a lot of pastors that have committed suicide, um.
(15:15):
I think God will know your heart, don't you? Like,
I think God would forgive you, in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
I mean, I may be wrong.
So, what would you say to Fabiola?
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Huh? Um, gosh, Fabiola, what a, what a day for
you to call in because, you know, between
Myself and Sean, we both served as missionaries as well
in Eastern Europe and in Africa, and so I'm so
glad that you called on this day, and I know
it's not an accident that you would call a missionary
to Mexico. Thank you for your service to the Lord.
(15:47):
I'm sorry you're going through what you're going through.
Knowing that it's kind of a personal question is so,
I'm so grateful to know that because it's, it's, um,
hard when they're too general, you know, you're kind of like,
you can give an answer, but it doesn't feel like
it connects, you know, so thank you for making it
very personal to your own story. Um, this isn't like
this is just recent, but like a couple years ago
(16:10):
I had my, my, the love of my life was
buried in a mass grave, and I had to watch
9 bodies be dug out of the ground.
And I had a, it's just I've been through a
lot and I, and I, and I ask the Lord
all the time like, but I'm so faithful. And I
think the, I thank you for sharing that too. I think,
(16:31):
I think the idea that like of not wanting to
go or it's unrealistic in, in the situation you're in
to not want to go to heaven. Of course you
want to go to heaven. Of course you want to
go be with the Lord. People that you love are
with the Lord, you're going through physical hardship, you've seen
insane trauma.
So that's totally normal. Um, but let me curb your,
let me curb a couple things for you. First of all,
(16:53):
nobody's been totally faithful except Jesus, and I know you're
gonna agree with me, so you don't, this is not
a rebuke. This is a reminder that no one, I mean,
even Elijah struggled with this. Oh Lord, I'm the only one.
I'm totally faithful. And God's reminder is, no, there's a
lot of people that I have that are still being faithful.
So I'm thankful for your service and your faithfulness, but
just know.
(17:14):
Like you said in your question, of course, we're we're
all sinning. It doesn't matter what we're doing for the Lord,
we still struggle with sin. That's a part of, that's
a part of who we are. The question you're asking
is not, does God forgive suicide, the sin of suicide, is,
is it unforgivable? That's the issue. Is this an unforgivable sin?
And it is not an unforgivable sin. And is it
(17:35):
a sin? Absolutely it is. And is it wrong? Absolutely.
Let me tell you why, Fabiola. Your life has already
made a huge impact on other people's, and by you
deciding to cut that short now, you're playing God by
doing so, and that's, that's not your, that's not in
your power. As hard as life might be.
Right now, what if this is the moment God wants
(17:56):
to use you to bring even more people to His kingdom?
So when you talk about your faithfulness, then I wanna,
I wanna empower you with this. Be faithful to His
and for your life, not your decision. You don't get
to decide that. Nobody does. Now, yes, you can use
the example. There's a lot of pastors, a lot of missionaries,
a lot of people that have taken their lives. And
(18:17):
do I believe they're in heaven? I do.
If, if you're asking, I do, but with you on
the phone right now, don't do that. Please don't do that.
I think you need some more counsel and people in
your life. Not that I'm glad you're calling, but I'd
love for you to get connected to some folks.
You know, some of my favorite missionaries in the world
that are already with Jesus were massively struggled with depression
(18:41):
and physical problems in their lifetime. Amy Carmichael being one
of them, Charles Spurgeon, not a missionary, but a pastor,
severe depression and physical issues. Hudson Taylor, massive depression, and incredible,
I mean, he was laid up in a bed for
over a year.
wanted to kill himself. Adoniram Judson lived in a tree
(19:01):
because he lost his spouse. He lost his mind and
he wanted to die. But you know what? It was
the years after that were the most fruitful in every
single one of those people's lives. So for you to
cut that short is to rob the world of the
gift of you that God would use in the world.
So please don't do that.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Sean.
Yeah, I'm sorry for the loss of your husband. That's
a lot.
Yeah, and just for the things that you've seen and
you'd experienced, you know, oftentimes I, I share with people
living on mission, you know, um, what Luke and Luke when, uh,
Jesus calls the disciples to himself, you know, after the
(19:40):
return setting out the 70, they return, um, that they
had authority over the demons and they're celebrating and he said,
you know, rejoice that your names are written in heaven, right?
And then there's this talk that he has when he,
he pulls them aside and he says,
Blessed are the eyes that see the things that you see,
and it just always stuck with me in mission as
we follow out and step out in faith that we're
(20:02):
gonna see amazing things that we would never experience, whatever
that context is, whatever that mission field is, but you've
seen things and some of those things are really hard.
And so, um, I just think maybe not to your
question about suicide, I think Phil um answer that great,
but I wanted to encourage you from Philippians one verse 21.
Where Paul is talking to the church in Philippi, and
(20:23):
you know he's, he's kind of talking about this kind
of inner wrestling that's going on. And just to remind you,
it's probably a familiar verse to you as you minister
to others, but it says, for to me to live
as Christ and to die as gain. But if I
live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit from
my labor. Yet what shall I choose? I cannot tell,
for I am hard pressed, and I want you to
(20:43):
hear that, hard pressed between the two, having a desire
to depart and be with Christ.
Which is far better. Nevertheless, to remain in the flesh
is more needful for you.
And being confident of this, I know that I shall
remain and continue with you all for your progress and
joy of faith, that your rejoicing for me may be
(21:06):
more abundant in Jesus Christ by my coming to you again.
Fabula, you've had an impact on so many lives, and
I'm sure.
And so just I think to echo what Phil was
saying on the example part, I think they're looking to
you from a distance and I don't mean that as
as you follow Jesus. And so with this, I know
that there's this part of like probably this ache for peace,
(21:28):
and just to be whole and to be with the
Lord in His presence, but just in this moment of tension,
know that there's others that, man, you have been planting
seeds in their life. You've walked with them and they're
watching you and how you persevere through this, and that's
not an extra burden.
But there is a part of leadership where yeah, it's
there's things that you carry that are unique. Let's just
(21:48):
say that. So I just want to encourage you in that,
that you can exist in that tension and that we're
with you as you kind of persevere in the call
of God on your life. And so it's worth it, Fabiola.
So thank you for calling. Phil, would you pray for Fabiola?
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Yeah, I'd love to. Thanks for the opportunity. Lord, we
just pray for Fabiola, um, gosh, emotionally and then physically
going through so much trauma, and I, we pray Jesus
for healing over her body and for grace over her heart.
And we just pray that Lord, um, you know, your,
your word never makes us like we're, we don't.
(22:24):
It's OK for us to be discouraged and depressed and
and feel defeated. That like, it's, it's OK to feel
that way. It's not sinful to feel that way, but Lord,
please don't let Fabiola give in to those, to what
she's feeling right now and just bring healing and wholeness
and just pour out your grace upon her and touch her. Lord.
Let her see.
Value in her, you know, for me to live as
(22:46):
Christ and to die as gain, but to be here
is expedient, it's necessary for the world that we live in.
We have to still be here. Sure, we all want
to go be with God in heaven, but
We're needed here for this season, so like, just reinstill
that into Fabiola's heart in Jesus' name. Amen.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Amen. Amen. And if everybody listening and watching can keep
Fabiola in your prayers, that'd be great too. 888-564-6173 is
our number. My name is Brian Perez. I'm here with
Doctor Pastor Phil Metzger, or Pastor Doctor Phil Metzger, and, uh,
Pastor Sean Haviar from Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa. It's his
first time here, and I think he's doing a good
job so far. Thank you.
(23:26):
888-564-6173. Let's talk to Michael and Sam Bernardino. Thank you, Michael,
for calling in at 888-564-6173. What's up?
Yeah, I just wanted to ask, so what's the difference
between John 14:26 and John 15:26?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Where it says when the Father will send the Holy
Spirit and the other one says that Jesus will send
the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Hm. All right, Phil, what would you
say?
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Yeah, that's a great question, and you're, you're, you're actually, it's,
it's cool that you're seeing that and a good job
in in reading and just seeing what you're reading. So
what you're seeing there is, you're seeing the trinity, the Trinity,
the the the God the Father, God the Son, God
the spirit, all working together.
And so in John 14:26, the Father is sending the Spirit,
(24:21):
and in John 15:26, Jesus is sending the Spirit. God
the Father, God the Son sending God the Spirit, and
the emphasis of the Spirit in John 14 is on
internal guidance and discipleship.
And then in John 15, the sending of the spirit
focuses on external mission and external witness. What what happens outwardly,
(24:44):
John 14, what's happening inwardly. So,
It's a really good catch to see that. I hope
this helps, but we're talking about God the Father sending
the Spirit in John 14, God the Son sending the
Spirit in John 15. They are 3 in 1.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Anything to add, Sean?
I think what Michael, Michael?
I, I, that's what I've always heard, but people recently, uh,
they've been telling me that God manifests Jesus, that they're
Speaker 2 (25:10):
not
Speaker 1 (25:11):
3,
Speaker 2 (25:11):
they're 1, and that God manifests the Holy Spirit and Jesus,
and I've always heard that they're all one, you know,
there are 3, they're 3 entities, but one, but that's
what that that's, that's a part, Michael, that's a part
of a a teaching that was discredited, you know, really
early on by the early church fathers, and it's the
idea that they're not.
(25:32):
It's, it's, it's one God and just persona, but no,
there are, the Bible is clear that it is 3 beings, 3,
that the 3, it's a godhead, one God, 3 persons.
So that that's a different teaching that is suggesting that.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Sean.
Yeah, I mean, I just, this is, I don't know
if this specifically answers your question, Michael, because maybe there's
something even in that, um, but just the, the knowing
that for the disciple that we need the helper, right?
In either case, whether it's John 14 or John 15,
that this is a gift, right, given by God for
(26:11):
those that would follow him. So this is something that
as Phil mentioned, this is things that are going on
internally helping there and then helping us live out the
Christian witness in the world so.
Um, yeah, I hope this was helpful for you. Was
it helpful for you, Michael?
Yes, thank you. I just, I just want, cause I've
always heard that, you know, they're 3 and then.
I know the Bible speaks of what, you know, if some,
(26:33):
if somebody comes with something different, don't believe it's just,
but I just wanted to get, you know, clarification on
what's the difference, but I think y'all now, you know,
I understand it, you know. Awesome. A totally different scenario. I've,
I've always believed in in in 33 persons, you know,
but they all have the same.
Uh, they all represent one another in the same. All right, well,
(26:56):
thank you for calling in today, Michael. 888-564-6173 is the
number to call us. We're going to be here for
another 30 minutes, and we would love to hear from you.
Let me read a question that was sent in on Facebook.
This is from Brittany in Antelope, California.
Should I be concerned with the Calvary Chapel Church? I
want to know if the Calvary Chapel denomination of churches
(27:17):
has any areas of concern, such as differing basics of
truth on the Trinity and the sanctification principle, Phil.
I don't know if Brittany knows that we're a Calvary
Chapel radio station, but, uh,
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you should have lots of, no, I mean,
I got, it's always good to, I, I actually appreciate
the fact that somebody's gonna say, hey, should I have concerns?
Good for you. You should always have, like, you should
always be willing to like, say, hey, I need to
check this out. I think it's, it's what makes one
of the cool groups in the New Testament. They were
called the Bereans, that's where they were from. But they were,
they were considered really noble cause they searched the scriptures, right?
(27:53):
So
I think that's great. Um, I am a pastor of
a Calvary Chapel church, so it's Sean, Brian Perez is
a part of the Calvary Chapel Churches. Um, Kwave is
for the body of Christ and it's for all people, um,
but we happen to be a part of Calvary, and no, when,
as it relates to the Trinity and sanctification, we are
an evangelical church that believes in like historical evangelicalism. We
(28:17):
are a, we believe in the Bible and in the
work of God and the Spirit, so.
You don't need to have any concerns about the church
as it relates to being, I'll use this word, kind
of an orthodox, not orthodox Christianity, but an Orthodox normal
church that believes the Bible, believes in Jesus, believes in
the Trinity, believes in God.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
All right, Brittany, I hope that answers your question. Thank
you for sending it in via Facebook Messenger, and it's
just about time for our break. We'll be back in
just a moment with more of your questions. Grab an
open line while there's still time. 888-564-6173 is our number.
Same number you see there on the bottom of your
screen if you're watching on Facebook, YouTube, or Instagram. If
(28:55):
you've got a question for us, you can also send
it in by
Scanning that QR code there on Facebook, YouTube, or Instagram,
but the best way to get an answer is to
call us when we're here live, like today. We're here
live Monday through Friday from 3 to 4 p.m. Pacific time,
except holidays. So we would love to hear from you
right now if you're watching us live or listening live, 888-564-6173,
(29:20):
and we will be back in just a moment.
(30:19):
We're back on Pastor's Perspective. Thanks so much for listening.
Thank you for watching, maybe on the radio, maybe on
a podcast, YouTube, Facebook, Instagram. We're all over the place.
Thank you so much for listening and for calling in. 888-564-6173.
You can get your question in and talk to Phil
Metzger and Sean Havilar. Phil is the pastor of Calvary
(30:40):
San Diego. Sean is a pastor of, uh, what do
they call it, executive. Hold on, let me, let me
get the title right. Executive director of Mission and Care.
What does that mean? That is, uh, we have an
executive team at Calvi Chapel Costa Mesa, so I get
to serve in two of the pillars.
That are kind of made up of our core values
here at the church, so overseeing both mission and care.
(31:00):
Nice with a great team. So yeah, yeah, we do
have a great team here. You can find out more
about Calvary Costa Mesa, CCCM.com is their website and Phil's
Church Calvary SD. Why do I alwaysforget.
Calm, yes, Calvary, yes, it's so easy, but I always
think that it's gonna be one of these.net or some
(31:20):
other thing like that. But yeah, find out more.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
I'll try to get some exotic, you know,
Speaker 1 (31:26):
or I don't know, yeah, there's so many of them
out there now. All right, 888-564-6173 Rosie in Los Angeles. Hello,
welcome to Pastor's Perspective.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Hi there, good afternoon. Um, I had a question about, uh,
with all this talk about Israel
Speaker 1 (31:43):
and
Speaker 2 (31:44):
World
Speaker 1 (31:44):
War
Speaker 2 (31:44):
3, who
Speaker 1 (31:46):
exactly,
Speaker 2 (31:47):
what countries or cities are Gog and Magog?
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Phil Metzger.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Yeah, good question. I'm sorry, I had my, uh, I
had my um
I was muted for a second, so I started to
get going and I was muted. Apologies. Um, good question,
and it does come up a lot, especially with everything
that's going on right now. And there are very differing
opinions about who is Gog and who is Magog. So
depending on how you see and understand the scripture, for
(32:15):
some people, the idea of Gog and Magog are those
that are, it's actually representative of a group of people
that are in opposition to God.
And so, for some, it's not about a specific location,
but about the concept of just being like, it's people
who are against God in the last days.
On the other hand, those that hold to a more specific,
(32:36):
you're usually looking, which is why it's always a fascinating
thing of what's happening in the world. You're usually looking
at these nations, Gog and Magog, representing those nations that
are near Russia. So either Russia specific or within that
kind of region, and that um these are representative of
the leader of that and then the area of that.
(32:58):
And so for those who
Hold to that view, they see the, the uh rise
of Russia that is working really against uh the world,
they see that as really indicative of, of something. So
Gog and Magog usually representing Russia or the Russian leader
at that time.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
What do you think, Rosie?
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Yes, I had heard that.
It was referred to as Russia.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
I've
Speaker 2 (33:27):
even
Speaker 1 (33:27):
heard
Speaker 2 (33:27):
of it as China,
Speaker 1 (33:28):
but I mean.
I don't know.
Mhm, Sean.
So yes, that was,
yeah.
Yeah, I'm uh I'm just on a Rosie, I'm curious
as to, yeah, what's the question of the question? Is
there just trying to get um biblical clarity on it,
or is it just, is there some fear or just
uncertainty right now for you?
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Just more uh biblical clarity because growing up um.
I was always taught that those, that was referred to
like Russia
Speaker 1 (34:00):
or
Speaker 2 (34:01):
the
Speaker 1 (34:01):
or
Speaker 2 (34:02):
the
Speaker 1 (34:02):
armies
Speaker 2 (34:02):
of the east. I'm not sure if that's true, and
just all this that's happened recently
Speaker 1 (34:08):
has got, like, you know, got me thinking like, oh.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Here we go.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Right, right, yeah.
Yeah, I think there's this um.
And and then the reason I asked this because I
think there's this in these times where there's so much
chaos going on around the world that there can be
proclivity towards fear, right? Uh, even among God's people as
followers of Jesus and just thinking of just recently heard
a message about just um from John 20 about on
(34:36):
the day of the resurrection and the disciples are huddled
in a room where for fear of the Jews and
Jesus met them in that room, meets his disciples and
says peace be with you, and he had a mission
for them.
In the midst of fear. And so that's just kind
of my, my thing of like as we kind of
wrestle with these things and we see these events happening
(34:56):
around us and are trying to define, I know that
there is a temptation or a draw towards fear. So
just want to encourage you in that faith and that
call um of whatever he has for you that he's
speaking peace into it and that he is completely in control.
Would you say there's another side to the coin too,
where maybe it's not about fear, but it's about
(35:17):
You know, wanting to tell your neighbor, hey, can't you
see what's going on here? This is the end, but
the only thing about that is, if nothing happens in
a few weeks, if all this kind of goes away, then, oh,
now we have to save face with our neighbor and say, oh, OK,
I guess this wasn't it, but yeah, I think.
Sometimes if we make the times, the focal point, I mean,
(35:37):
I think there should always be an urgency in in
sharing the gospel and connecting with people, but it's because
it's oftentimes in relationship, um, it's just continually being present
and showing up because I think we have the message, right?
We have the goods of the gospel, but are we
also present with people and their different questions and their
challenges and I think that's the kind of
(35:58):
I guess context that I think people are in need
of an epidemic of loneliness and world chaos and where
do I belong and needing something to hold on to.
I think that's always been the case, but it seems
so prevalent nowadays.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Yeah, I mean, it's a good conversation. Yeah, I mean, it's,
it's kind of, you know, to use like a modern word,
it's kind of easy to use these like events as clickbait.
Yeah, you know, oh, look at what's happening here and
look at what's happening there, and, and certainly,
You know, we want to be kind of aware of
what's going on and how that could impact our witness
and how we express the gospel. The thing I like
to always remind people, and I feel like, to your point, Brian,
(36:33):
cause it's a really good one. It's like, if I
fix my view of the last days on, look at
what's happening in, say, Russia or Iran or in Israel,
and then nothing changes, yeah, I kind of feel like,
you kind of feel foolish. But where I really wanna,
I wanna kind of like
Center my my conviction on the last days is that
(36:54):
the Bible tells me that the last days began when
Jesus rose from the dead. We're living in the last days,
and I mean like we we're, I mean, and in
that case, I feel a greater sense of urgency. We're
2000 years since the time that Jesus rose from the dead,
and if disciples then were saying this is it.
How much closer are we to this is it? And
(37:17):
I love what Sean, what you said there, buddy, that
it's like, we kind of live with a sense of urgency,
not because of an event that's happening, but because of
the event that has changed everything. That was the death, burial,
and then resurrection of Jesus. This is the transformative event
that should be like.
Turning my head to look up. It's not, I'm not
looking for an anti-Christ, I'm not looking for like, if
(37:39):
Russia does this, you know, X, Y, and Z, then
everything is gonna change. The world has already changed. It's
been turned upside down or right side up.
If you will, because of the resurrection and now at
any moment, I believe that Jesus could come back. He's
not standing at the gates and waiting. As soon as
this happens, then I can come back. The Bible is
(38:01):
really clear, like he could come back at any time.
He's not waiting for any world events, so.
I think world events are really, gosh, it's good to
stay aware. I think from a mission perspective, I want
to be aware um for how I'm sharing the gospel
and being thoughtful to people, but as it relates to
end times, we are living in the last days. That's the,
that's the, that's the straight up truth.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
What about the passage that talks about uh peace and
safety and then comes sudden destruction. So that almost makes
it seem like we're looking at all these wars going
on and it's, is it gonna be more like when
things settle down and then that's when things are gonna explode.
What do you think about that?
Um, I guess there's a part of me that as
(38:45):
I just look through and just look at the early
church and then continuing on, that there's just this constant
opposition from outside, from inside, from, um, world events, rulers,
powers that be just a different kingdom values, the different
people that are in authority and uh there's a call to.
(39:06):
Just follow Jesus. I mean, I don't, I, I have
no other source of peace, truly, like, I can, I've tried, right?
We can try other things, but I think to to
experience that true peace in its lasting sense is only
in being in his will. And so,
Speaker 2 (39:23):
yeah.
You know, I love that. You know what I'm thinking
too is like the people that heard that said weren't
surprised by the sudden terror part, they were surprised by
the there would be peace.
Cause there was no peace, like nobody had any peace.
Life was complete chaos all the time. And then this
new thing that God was doing created even more turmoil, more,
more pain and suffering for a lot of good people.
(39:45):
So I would think that a lot of them were like, wow,
there's gonna be seasons where the uh
The possibility that things could actually be at peace, and
so we live in a time where we're like, the
idea of sudden terror sounds unreal. Um, most of the
world lives at the, the sense of peace sounds unreal,
and so I think it's kind of like a perspective
of how I see.
(40:06):
You know, where I kind of, um, emphasize which part
of that. And I think for the early church, their
emphasis would have been, wow, there's actually is gonna be
some peace that's gonna happen. And we can't let that
lull us into the idea that we're safe. We will
only be safe until Christ comes for us. Where we
struggle with today is like we've become lulled into feeling
(40:28):
like we're safe. And
The idea of anything that would create discomfort or instability, um,
upsets our faith. And so we, we, we're kind of
coming at it from two different sides there and but
that's a, that's a great, that's a great verse to
bring up in that context, Brian. I love that.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
Rosie, thanks for your phone call today on Pastor's Perspective.
Now let's go to LA. Here is Gonzalo. How can
we help you, Gonzalo? Thanks for calling 888-564-6173.
Hello,
Speaker 2 (40:54):
thank
Speaker 1 (40:55):
you for taking my call. This is Gonzalo from LA. Yes,
I know I, I, I hear a lot of,
Speaker 2 (41:01):
uh, I,
Speaker 1 (41:02):
I see a lot of videos on either YouTube or
Facebook where this, uh, priest.
Del Toro, he claims.
That the Bible was actually made up by the Catholic
Church and that Jesus Christ
And that all the apostles were actually Catholics. Would you
(41:22):
please give me some resources so I can um.
Say or write to those uh people. Mm not having
the whole um
The whole story?
First thing I would say is, careful what you see
on YouTube or Facebook or any of those because they're
all kind of, so, let me again make my case
(41:43):
for Christian radio, for K-wave. OK, so all the pastors
you hear here on K-wave.
Including Phil Metzger, including Sean Haviar. We're not gonna put
them on if their doctrine is kind of off. That
doesn't mean that if you don't hear a particular pastor
on K-wave, that their doctrine is off. It doesn't mean that,
but everybody here on K-wave, we vet and you can
(42:05):
trust what they're saying. We may not agree on 100%
of the issues, but on the major ones we do. So,
these people on YouTube, they just upload videos all day
long and uh.
Scare people and tell them you're being deceived. Send me
money and I'll tell you more. Uh, so that's my
quick word of caution. But Phil Metzger, take it away.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
I always get
Speaker 2 (42:27):
defensive
Speaker 1 (42:28):
when I hear that stuff.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
It's
Speaker 1 (42:29):
like,
Speaker 2 (42:29):
uh, so yeah, so, um, OK, uh, Gonzalo, it's thanks,
thanks for this, and let me like
I'm gonna parse some words for you, OK? Um, the
word Catholic means universal. It was a word used very
early on in the history of the church by about, like,
I think it was, I was trying to look it up,
something like within the like by 110, 111, 1 of
(42:53):
the early church fathers used the word Catholic. That's not
the same as the Roman Catholic Church.
That came into being centuries later.
The Catholic faith, or the Catholic Church, all the old
early church fathers, they would use that language in the 200s,
in the 300s, the Catholic faith. That's not referring to
(43:15):
the idea of a pope, or these bishops, or that
that system. That system came in, like I said, centuries
later to really becoming a, a, an institution.
But the idea of Catholics. So when you say, did
the Catholics write the Bible, yes, the Catholic, the, the,
the universal church, God spoke to the apostles, they wrote,
(43:37):
they wrote God's word down. God spoke to prophets, they
wrote the word down. God spoke to Moses, and he
wrote that I could just keep going on with all
the writers of the scripture. We call that the universal faith,
that's the Catholic faith, but don't listen to whatever is
being told to you, that that means
That the current Roman Catholic Church as it is, wrote
the Bible. God wrote the Bible and he gave it
to his people, and it has been passed down generation
(44:01):
to generation, OK?
Speaker 1 (44:03):
So Gonzalo wants to write a letter to this particular guy. Uh, what,
what could Gonzalo tell him that might change his mind,
or would that almost be a wasted effort because, I mean,
not to say that we couldn't couldn't speak truth to him,
but would he start to doubt and no, no, no,
I'm right, you're wrong. I mean, I don't know. I
(44:25):
think we live in, thank you, Gonzalo again for the question.
I think we live in interesting times with social media
and um you know, self-proclaimed profits or I have the
new revelation or I can tell you what's going on
in this place and that place and um typically social
media isn't a place to have dialogue. It's a place
where people express their opinions or cancel other people a
(44:48):
differing opinions, so.
Um, I would just ask you to be prayerful, Gonzalo,
like what you want to say and what the purpose
is and wanting to say. I appreciate your heart for
wanting to, you know, know the source of where scripture
comes from, but I think that the other side of that,
Gonzalo is to say we want to have a place
where we can have a conversation. If someone is there's
(45:10):
no relationship, they don't know you, there's not a, you're
not under their leadership as far as like this isn't
a church leader that you're going to, that would be
a different conversation.
Um, I would just, just ask you to be prayerful
in that because he might not respond in the way
that you might hope he would. So, but, but I
don't know your convictions, so I'm not the Holy Spirit,
so I just wanna just throw that out there as
(45:30):
a word of caution, but also, um, yeah, prayers for you. Gonzalo,
as you just kind of continue forward in the truth.
Amen. Gonzalo, thank you for your phone call today on
Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is the number. Got a few minutes left.
Here's a question that was sent in online through Kwave.com.
It's from Ryan. I have a good friend who is
(45:50):
a domestic abuse survivor. Her ex-husband hit her and refused
to pay the rent. She needed time to heal or
else we would be dating.
She feels compelled to a life of singlehood due to
this and her disability. She's working on becoming a Christian counselor.
Ryan's question Why do some men feel the need to
(46:11):
physically abuse their wives, and how can I see God's
hand in this romantic rejection? Do you feel that when
she said you made a profound difference in my life,
that that will appeal to other women who might want
to date me in the future?
What would you say, Sean?
Wow.
That's just there's a, there's a lot of layered in
(46:32):
nuance questions there. So um let me just
Think through that. I'm actually gonna pitch to Phil. Sorry,
I hate to to call the bullpen. I'm just trying
to process through some of those, yeah,
Speaker 2 (46:46):
no, I, I want to hear your thoughts. I'll mention
a few things here. Yeah, because I think, you know, Ryan,
that's a cool question. I mean, we can't answer the question,
why do some men feel the need to physically abuse
their wives? I mean that's.
Not because it's a dumb question, but because it's like, I,
I can't get into the mind of anyone who would
ever hit another, like a man that would hit a woman,
a woman that he's in a relationship with. It makes
(47:07):
no sense. So I have no idea and don't even
wanna give suggestions because in doing that, it might sound
like I'm sympathetic and I'm not. So, I got nothing
for you on why anybody would ever do that. But I,
I can speak to the idea that like, yeah, this
is a person that's been hurt, you know, just based
on what you're saying there.
And I think a guy like yourself who like is
(47:27):
just saying like, I wanna, I don't wanna be that
kind of person. I wanna be a different kind of person.
I wanna be stand up. I wanna be gentle, kind, loving,
thoughtful kind of human being. Dude, I think that like,
and you, you love Jesus, there's gonna be girls that
are interested in you, and you just gotta give it
some time and wait and
You know, I appreciate that she's not in a place
where she wants to be in a relationship. And for
(47:48):
you to respect that and just kinda move forward, and
God's got something for you, be a good dude, be
kind to women, treat them respectfully, you know, as sisters
in Christ, and yes, it will definitely appeal. There's a
lot of ladies that are gonna hear that and go, man,
I want a guy who's like super thoughtful like that
and cares about, cares about me.
(48:09):
They don't need any bad guys like that, so just
give it some time, Ryan, wait, you know, obviously this guy.
This is not for you, and you just take it
as that, like, hey, this is not where she's at.
She's at it hard, she doesn't want to be in
a relationship, then respect it, stay friends, but just know
that like God will, God will open the door when
he's ready. You just keep being a good dude, love Jesus,
(48:31):
be nice to people, especially to women. Don't hide in
a corner, don't like wait in a closet for God
to bring somebody, be out there, live your life, go
to church, go to groups, meet people, and, um, go
to bring somebody.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
Yeah.
Yeah, and I just think of the word impact because
um I'm just if I'm understanding or reading your question right, um.
This, this, this, this word of you made a profound
difference in my life. I think I hope as Christians
that we want to impact others for good, right? It
sounds like there's a redemption story and that your friend
(49:04):
is in process through this, but in that, um, we
want to by God's with God's help, right? And his
leading make an impact for others. Now I can't speak
to the romantic part. I don't know all the dynamics,
that's a whole another kind of sidebar conversation, but I think.
You're right in wanting to um make that profound impact
on another person's life and and if you have, man,
(49:27):
that's a gift.
That's a gift through you to her like if she
recognized that and I think that's attractive, that's the fragrance
of Christ to all people, whether it's just a brother
in the Lord saying, man, thank you for that encouragement
for walking with me through people that have abused me
or hurt me or challenged me or come up come
against me. You've advocated for me, you stood with me.
I think there's a lot of Jesus being seen in that.
(49:49):
So I think not only is that.
Potentially bode well for finding someone down the road, but
I think just in friendship and in just being a
Christian witness in this life. So, so if Ryan is
having a good impact on someone, yes, whether it's a
romantic relationship or not, that's a good thing. But my
red flag here, sorry, I did, I would hate for
(50:11):
Ryan to, you know, if he's on a date with
a woman.
Somebody else, and they're sitting at this restaurant and he says,
you know, other women have said what a great impact
I am on their on their life. Can we go
out again? I mean, would that be, I mean, I'm,
I don't think Ryan's doing that. I would hope not.
I'm just reading the question at face value what I
see here, but.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
What do you say? Yeah, I hope not either. I man,
you got me freaking out now, Brian Perez. No, no, no, uh, no,
I think, I think you're right though. Like, I mean, again,
like that's the point, like be a good guy, that
would be manipulative what you described, and people do this
and you're right, like it's terrible. You're gonna like.
Make somebody feel a certain way by saying, hey, I'm
(50:52):
this kind of a person, yada yada. No, don't do that.
Just be a decent person. Don't, don't manipulate, don't control, don't, don't,
don't do any of that stuff. And just be, be decent.
This person that you were, it sounds like you were
a good guy to that person, be a good guy
to other people, but don't, don't manipulate or control anybody.
That stuff, oh, that stuff's so scary. I agree. Yucky.
(51:13):
Sean, it's
Speaker 1 (51:14):
I don't think
Speaker 2 (51:14):
that's a word yucky is yucky. Can I use yucky
on this show? Yucky.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
Is it in the original manuscript or yeah, I mean,
I just think God's so faithful, right? Like just continue
to follow Jesus, and I don't mean to make this
overly simplistic, but really the Bible makes it pretty clear
for us like calling to follow him, the faithful one,
and he'll and he'll continue to lead you and just
(51:39):
keep your eyes open, continue to remain faithful.
And I just, yeah, can't echo enough and amen enough
the the weirdness it would be and it's it has
happened to manipulate others and again, or even prey on,
on from a man on women that have been abused
like that can be a thing. And then unfortunately in
our day and age there's a lot of women who
have been mistreated and not treated as image bearriers as
(52:02):
having any level of mutuality who have been diminished. So
I think, yeah, you treat it with care, but honor, honor.
Honor your sister. Ryan, thank you for sending in your
question through Kwave.com. And now here's one from Daniel in
San Bernardino. Daniel writes, when tithing, I know it's supposed
to be 10%. Is that 10% every week or just
(52:27):
when I get my income? Also, do I need to
do it when I go to church, or can I
do it once I get paid on Fridays? Phil, what
do you say to Daniel?
Speaker 2 (52:37):
Well, Daniel, the Bible, when the Bible talks about tithing,
first of all, it's true, that's, there's an Old Testament, um,
Kind of, you know, a part of the Jewish system,
like the Jews, that was a part of their, their
social system was that the tithe was used for the,
the temple institute institution and the priesthood and so on
and so forth. When we get into the New Testament,
(52:59):
the idea of tithing or generosity becomes a little bit different, not, uh,
maybe not less, but just a little bit different. It's
no longer based on like you're a part of, it's like,
it's not the nationality that you're supporting this institution.
Um, and we're not supposed to tie to support the
institution of church, but we give as unto the Lord,
and the Bible says actually be a a hilarious, like
(53:21):
a cheerful giver. Give with just so much joy that's
in your heart. So,
I wanna, like, protect you from this feeling of like,
I know it's supposed to be 10%. I would say
the Bible's encouragement is this.
If you choose that it's going to be 10%, then
do that with so much joy in your heart that
you've made that decision.
In terms of the timing, dude, no, no worries on
(53:42):
that stuff. You don't have to go to church. Uh,
we live in a technologically advanced time when you can
just do that online. You can do that when you
get paid. You can, the, the thing that I would
encourage is not like what day and what location, but
to be like a really consistent person. I, I, the
thing about like, and I, I wrestle talking about tithing
always because on the one hand, we can be manipulative
(54:04):
in that, and I, I don't, we don't want to
be manipulative. On the other hand,
I do feel the urgency in my church, at least,
to tell to remind people that tithing is a part
of my relationship with Christ, where I'm trusting Him with
my resources. So God gave these things to me, and
now I'm giving back to Him, and I'm trusting Him.
I'm not gonna trust in, um, my money, but I'm
(54:25):
gonna trust in the Lord. So, with that said, dude, um,
have that freedom, do it as God's leading you, but
as he's leading you, be super consistent. Don't worry about
what day, don't worry about what time, just
Be free in that stuff.
Speaker 1 (54:37):
I almost see Daniel as a hilarious giver because he
gets paid on Friday. He doesn't want to wait till Sunday.
It sounds like he would. I just want to give
this money to the Lord right now. I mean, that
to me tells me that he's got the good heart.
If anything, if your church does online giving, just, you know,
log in, send it in, and yeah, you don't have
to wait till Sunday, doesn't have to be 10%, you know,
(54:59):
whatever you, whatever you work out, I guess with the
Lord is how you could look at it. I think
just sorry to add to this is just that um.
Yeah, we belong to the Lord. You belong to the Lord, Daniel,
and just whatever that looks like and as the Lord
continues to lead you as you follow him, just continue
to just be led by him. Like there's, I appreciate
the consistency and the discipline of giving sacrificially, but also
(55:20):
as Phil already alluded to, like inside Corinthians talking about
that cheerful giver, like, not grudgingly, not like.
Oh, like wiping our heads and putting our faces in
the ground and look at how much I'm giving. I
think that can be also really weird, and I think
the Bible kind of alludes to that in the early
church that there is an idea that we should be
different types of givers because God gave Himself for us. Yeah. Daniel,
(55:43):
thank you for sending in your question. We're out of time. Metzger,
thank you for joining us today. Sean, good job. We're
going to have you back again one of these days. Yeah, yeah,
thanks for having me. Awesome. Cool. That wasn't a yes.
Did you notice that, Phil?
We'll be back tomorrow on Pastor's Perspective.
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez,
and we are here live on this Thursday, June 26th,
626 day, stitch day, whatever. Anyway, give us a call
if you've got a question about the Bible, the Christian faith,
just about anything that's on your mind. 888-564-6173 is our number.
(00:38):
If you're watching us on Facebook, YouTube or Instagram, thanks
for watching.
Uh, the numbers right there on the bottom of the screen.
Don't just watch, participate, call in, and ask your questions.
We're gonna be here for the full hour. There's other
ways to get your questions to us as well, but
the best way to get your question answered is to
call us when we're here. 888-564-6173 is our number. And
(01:01):
here to answer your questions today, we've got Phil Metzger,
the pastor of Calvary San Diego. How you doing, Phil?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Hey guys, good. I'm so glad to be on with
you guys.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yes, it's gonna be a great show. Earlier today, I
was having lunch at the El Pollo Loco over here
on Harbor Boulevard, and I saw Sean Havelar there, who
would have known that 2 hours later he was going
to be on the program with me. Sean, it's fun.
Hey Brian Popolls. Yeah, that's right. We're ready. We're ready.
Sean is a pastor at Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa. He's
(01:31):
also the executive director of Mission and Care.
Actually, on the website there's a plus sign, so I
should say executive director of Mission Plus Care. But, uh, Sean,
first time here, first time. Are you a little nervous? Yes,
you are. I can see sweat just pouring out. No, no,
I'm just used to rolling with it. I mean, it's
as long as Phil's here, we're good. is here sauce
(01:52):
to the to the chicken sandwich here. So he's calling
you a chicken, Phil. I heard
Speaker 2 (01:55):
that. OK. Well, El Pollo grilled chicken, there's a lot
of chicken going on in this. There is.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
All right, 888-564-6173, and you guys know each other. How
long have you known each other? What's your, what's your past?
What's your history? 22 years? Wow, 22 years, yeah, we
met in Hungary. I was doing a six week youth
discipleship program that Phil had, I think he had the
vision for a few months even before I arrived. It
wasn't like a long lead time and the Lord just
(02:25):
brought us together as friends. He is super impactful to
my wife and I. He married us.
And so, um, they were both involved in our wedding
and missions and so many amazing God stories on the way.
So yeah, just grateful for our friendship, true brother. So
Speaker 2 (02:42):
yep,
I love that guy, love his whole family, glad he's
serving the church there, Costa Mesa.
He's a good basketball player for all of you listening.
He's a great basketball player and, uh, Los Angeles Lakers fan,
so he's allowed to be on the show. And, uh, yeah, no, I, I,
I love, we love to have alas, we love Sean.
He's an amazing guy. So, yeah, this is fun. I
(03:03):
always enjoy being with, um, the great people you have on,
but this is
It's especially fun to have Sean.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Yeah, for having me. Yeah, for sure. 888-564-6173 is our number.
So you can also send in your questions online using
Facebook Messenger, the pastor's perspective Facebook Messenger, to be more specific,
or you can DM us on the Pastor's Perspective Instagram,
or you can go to Kwave.com.
There's a banner there that's got my head on it.
(03:30):
If you click on my forehead, that will take you
to the page where you can fill out the form
and get your question to us. Or if you're watching
on Facebook, YouTube, or Instagram, we've got a QR code there.
You can scan that, and that'll take you to that
page without you having to flick on my forehead. So
get your question to us, however you'd like, but the
best way to get an answer, like I said, is
to call. Here's Mark's question. Mark is in Fullerton, and
(03:51):
he sent this one in. I was watching The Passion
of the Christ again.
And it provides my question. Why did Pilate say, I
wash my hands of this matter after the crowd sentenced
Jesus to death? Did that act of washing his hands
buy any points for him with God? Phil, what would
you say to Mark?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Uh, Mark, great movie. Boy, Passion of the Christ. That's,
I'm glad to go back to that. It's been a
long time since, uh, I thought of that movie. Um,
but obviously, that event is in the Bible in terms
of Pilate just trying to kind of wash his hands
of that. No. It gives him absolutely no brownie points
with God though. That there's no, uh, you know, God
isn't like, oh, well, gosh, Pilate washed his hands of that,
(04:32):
so that's OK. In fact, it's quite the opposite.
When Jesus described indifference in the Bible, he says, you're
either for me or against me. There is no such
thing as being indifferent to God. So in that moment
when Pilate says, hey, you know, you people want this,
and I think this, but I'm just gonna wash my
hands of that. He was really doing exactly what Jesus said.
(04:55):
If you say, oh, I don't know, I don't know,
and I, you know, I'm not gonna make a decision,
then you are making a decision against God. So no,
he was not given any brownie points for doing that.
That's something that maybe man would say, Oh, well, that
was nice of him to be neutral, but to be
neutral before God is actually to be against God. It's
to reject God. So, Pilate's decision was a, was actually
(05:17):
a very damning decision for his own, his own soul.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
So this leads to another question that we've had often.
I don't think I've ever heard this one before, but
the one where, um, like Mark said, by Pilate saying, uh,
I wash my hands, it's not gonna win him any
brownie points or anything, but what about like when Jesus
from the cross said, Father, forgive them for they know
not what they do. Were they like automatically exonerated or
(05:44):
all those people there? What would you say, Sean?
Yeah, I think it just speaks to the nature of God,
you know, and, and he is the expressed image of God, right? Like,
so Jesus reflecting the heart of God and the way
that he had compassion on those that he was going
to the cross for. And so I think even going
back to the pilot.
Question, thanks for that, Mark. It was the washing of
(06:07):
the hands can be an expression of also too maybe
the guilt or like I don't want to be a
part of this, but as we know from even creation
that when there's guilt, there's a temptation for us to
try and cover ourselves up or clean ourselves, which we
know isn't sufficient, so.
Mark, thank you for sending in your question through Kwave.com.
And let's do one more that was sent in online,
and then we'll go to the phones at 888-564-6173. This
(06:31):
one is from Cathy in Lynnwood, Washington, uh, who has
a follow-up question from a program we did about a
week ago when we were asked on the program, if
an adulterer, someone who has divorced for irreconcilable differences, gets remarried, uh,
can that person be a Christian?
Uh, we basically said, or, or according to Cathy, uh,
(06:54):
Pastor Brian basically gave them a pass so long as
they are contrite in heart.
God forgives them just go on with their life. So
Cathy says, my question is, 1 Corinthians 6:9 says, Willful sinners,
my paraphrase, won't inherit the kingdom of God, which seems
pretty unconditional. If the adulterer gets a pass, even though
they continue in their adulterous marriage but feel contrition about it,
(07:18):
why don't the other sinners listed get a pass? I
have a transgender nephew. If he becomes a Christian.
Can he continue his testosterone treatments and breast augmentation and
still be a Christian so long as he is truly
contrite in his heart? Phil, what say you?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Boy, that's a, there's a lot there, and, um, boy,
there's just a lot there. Goodness gracious. OK, so it's
almost like a couple different questions in there. So forgive me, um,
this is, what was her name? Um, she's in Lynnwood. Cathy,
all right, so Cathy, and for everybody listening or watching,
let's start with the first one, and I think the
first one is just the idea of like, um, was
(07:58):
Pastor Brian giving somebody a pass that they're no longer,
you know, they, they, they had sinned and then they
got remarried, and hey, we want to be repentant of that.
Does this qualify within that 1 Corinthians 6:9 of willful sinning,
and I think that there is a bit of maybe
misunderstanding to the idea that like,
If someone divorces, and the reasons were not.
(08:18):
You know, it wasn't good. It wasn't a good thing.
Or there had been an adult adulterous relationship. And then
that person repents of those things, and then everybody just
kind of moves on and, and then people remarry. I'm
not sure that the Bible's expressing the idea that if you've,
if you sinned against your wife and it ended your
marriage and you divorced, that you are then perpetually in sin,
(08:38):
that you are consistently and continuously in willful sin. At
that point, you know, you have repented and hopefully you've
made things right, but it might not lead to being remarried.
And so you are, you, you know, you've, you've broken
that covenant, but that doesn't mean that you're allowed forever
and ever in sin. No more than any one of
us when we sin. Uh, we need to repent of that.
(08:59):
We need to get right with God. And by the way,
the only way we could ever really repent of any
sin is because God by His Spirit showed us that
we needed to repent of that. It's actually not even
in me on my own.
But God is working that graciously. So I definitely don't know.
I don't, I don't wanna speak for Brian, but I
think I, I, I think I can pretty, pretty comfortably
to say, in no way is anyone suggesting that it's
(09:20):
just like, you can continue in willful sin, but if
you've divorced because of an adulterous relationship, and you've repented
of that adulterous relationship, then you are no longer living
in willful sin.
Um, Sean, do you want to talk about that second part,
or do you, you guys want me to continue? Um,
I don't wanna. You're good, you're good.
Good. OK. So I'll just mention a little bit on
the idea of like, because I think that second question
(09:42):
is about having a transgender nephew. And, and, and I
know that this is a, this opens up, there's a lot,
there's a lot we could talk about. But let me
say this. So I'm gonna repeat the question, if he
becomes a Christian, can he continue with his treatments and
breast augmentation and still be a Christian?
Let's just start with what really matters. I mean, seriously,
let's just get to what really matters. Let's hope and
pray the person becomes a Christian first. Before we worry
(10:06):
about the what ifs of, well, can they do this
and can they do that? I, I get that it matters,
and I don't want to minimize that, Kathy, or whoever
is interested in this point. It's not me trying to
say that doesn't matter, but I really want to emphasize
the point. If, uh, we should just really hope that
this person becomes a Christian. Cause let me tell you
what happens when a person truly is born again.
(10:26):
God begins a work, and the Bible tells us that
God's work in us begins inwardly, and it affects every
single part of our lives. So rather than me saying,
oh no, they have to stop this augmentation, they got
to stop these testosterone, uh, you know, medication, rather than
me saying that, let me make it very clear. When
someone gives their life to Christ, there will be whole
(10:48):
person transformation that God does.
It may not fit in my time frame or your
time frame, but I promise you that the work of
the Spirit is a full and complete work in all
of our lives. God is doing things in me, and
he's still changing me. He's doing that in Sean and Brian,
all of us. And so, rather than me answering, do
they have to stop those things, that becomes a slippery
(11:10):
slope for me. Um, if you're asking the question like,
You know, do they need to, you know, renormalize their
understandings of gender? I believe in a full work of
the Holy Spirit through salvation that he will do that
work in every single one of us. And, uh, but I,
I'd rather avoid the idea that like, well, this is
when it's gonna happen, and this is how it's gonna happen.
I just know that when God's doing the work, man,
(11:31):
he does a full work. I, I, I believe in that. Sean.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Yeah, these are very nuanced. I mean, that the two
of them being packed together is, is actually really difficult
because I think what we're talking about is the hard issue.
Like we're saying, I know what's going on in your
heart and and sometimes we do. The Bible talks about
like the faith and works and the outworking of those things,
but I think the main priorities is we're not defined
(11:56):
by what we don't do, right? If there is that.
Renewal of the spirit being born again, being filled with
the spirit, there will be conviction. There will be, there's
going to be a process to both understanding the sanctification
and being patient with people in that, but understanding also
that there is an element of of understanding of grace
in it, right? Like this is grace allows us to
(12:17):
be patient with people in their process, right? Um, because
sometimes we will allow the sin to define a person
and I think sometimes.
Yeah, I, if you look in my rearview mirror, and
I'm sure if you look in Phil's rearview mirror yours, Brian,
there are things that we could be defined by. But thankfully, um,
just as Jesus told the woman gotten adultery, right? Like,
neither do I condemn you, right? So there's a point
(12:39):
where there is a shift and a change that that
is no longer your identity. And, and I think some
of those things with speaking of the nephew, it's just
one of those things to be, to be present, to
be prayerful, to be encouraging, and to continue to point
to the love and the grace of God. So, yeah.
When I see those things in the rearview mirror, I
put the pedal to the metal. I'm just like, I
(12:59):
don't wanna see it.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Stay away. All right, Cathy, thank you for sending in
your question, and now we're gonna go to the phones.
We've got Fabiola in Murrieta listening on FM 107.9 K wave.
Thank you for calling in today. You are on with
Pastor Phil Metz, excuse me, Doctor Phil Metzger and Pastor
Sean Havilar. Welcome to the program, Fabiola.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Thank you so much. Uh.
Hello, reading blessings. Uh, my question is
And I'm talking more like about a Christian.
Sometimes, uh, we're overwhelmed and stuff and even though you've
already given your life to Christ and everything.
What does the Bible say about somebody who's already saved
(13:43):
and maybe he's having a hard time and they commit suicide?
Is that a sin? Or in my humble opinion, I
think that God knows that
Speaker 1 (13:51):
there's obviously something wrong for you to do that.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
And I, and being a Christian, do you think he, uh,
forgives us? or is it something that you died?
With um not giving that forgiveness from God.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
So why do you ask this question, Fabiola?
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Because I'm a born again
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Christian.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Um, I'm actually ordained as well, and I'm a missionary,
and I've been working really hard in Mexico, and, um,
whatever he tells me to do, I just do it.
I don't ask questions. And so, um, I've been going
through it lately. Um, I've been, I was sick and
I had surgery on my carotid artery, and, um, my
(14:32):
right side isn't 100% yet, and I'm still in a
wheelchair and um I know that God has me and
I know that.
Any bad situation, you can, you know, you can get
something good from it. And so, um, I was talking
to my friend, like, I'm already ready to go, like
I'm ready for God to come and get me, um,
because
(14:52):
I just feel like I've been ready.
Um, and, um,
I, I tell him like right now I know God
still wants me to do, but once I'm done, like
I'm ready to go.
Um,
So,
I was telling him if, if, if you get to
the point where you want to kill yourself, and I
know there's a lot of pastors that have committed suicide, um.
(15:15):
I think God will know your heart, don't you? Like,
I think God would forgive you, in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
I mean, I may be wrong.
So, what would you say to Fabiola?
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Huh? Um, gosh, Fabiola, what a, what a day for
you to call in because, you know, between
Myself and Sean, we both served as missionaries as well
in Eastern Europe and in Africa, and so I'm so
glad that you called on this day, and I know
it's not an accident that you would call a missionary
to Mexico. Thank you for your service to the Lord.
(15:47):
I'm sorry you're going through what you're going through.
Knowing that it's kind of a personal question is so,
I'm so grateful to know that because it's, it's, um,
hard when they're too general, you know, you're kind of like,
you can give an answer, but it doesn't feel like
it connects, you know, so thank you for making it
very personal to your own story. Um, this isn't like
this is just recent, but like a couple years ago
(16:10):
I had my, my, the love of my life was
buried in a mass grave, and I had to watch
9 bodies be dug out of the ground.
And I had a, it's just I've been through a
lot and I, and I, and I ask the Lord
all the time like, but I'm so faithful. And I
think the, I thank you for sharing that too. I think,
(16:31):
I think the idea that like of not wanting to
go or it's unrealistic in, in the situation you're in
to not want to go to heaven. Of course you
want to go to heaven. Of course you want to
go be with the Lord. People that you love are
with the Lord, you're going through physical hardship, you've seen
insane trauma.
So that's totally normal. Um, but let me curb your,
let me curb a couple things for you. First of all,
(16:53):
nobody's been totally faithful except Jesus, and I know you're
gonna agree with me, so you don't, this is not
a rebuke. This is a reminder that no one, I mean,
even Elijah struggled with this. Oh Lord, I'm the only one.
I'm totally faithful. And God's reminder is, no, there's a
lot of people that I have that are still being faithful.
So I'm thankful for your service and your faithfulness, but
just know.
(17:14):
Like you said in your question, of course, we're we're
all sinning. It doesn't matter what we're doing for the Lord,
we still struggle with sin. That's a part of, that's
a part of who we are. The question you're asking
is not, does God forgive suicide, the sin of suicide, is,
is it unforgivable? That's the issue. Is this an unforgivable sin?
And it is not an unforgivable sin. And is it
(17:35):
a sin? Absolutely it is. And is it wrong? Absolutely.
Let me tell you why, Fabiola. Your life has already
made a huge impact on other people's, and by you
deciding to cut that short now, you're playing God by
doing so, and that's, that's not your, that's not in
your power. As hard as life might be.
Right now, what if this is the moment God wants
(17:56):
to use you to bring even more people to His kingdom?
So when you talk about your faithfulness, then I wanna,
I wanna empower you with this. Be faithful to His
and for your life, not your decision. You don't get
to decide that. Nobody does. Now, yes, you can use
the example. There's a lot of pastors, a lot of missionaries,
a lot of people that have taken their lives. And
(18:17):
do I believe they're in heaven? I do.
If, if you're asking, I do, but with you on
the phone right now, don't do that. Please don't do that.
I think you need some more counsel and people in
your life. Not that I'm glad you're calling, but I'd
love for you to get connected to some folks.
You know, some of my favorite missionaries in the world
that are already with Jesus were massively struggled with depression
(18:41):
and physical problems in their lifetime. Amy Carmichael being one
of them, Charles Spurgeon, not a missionary, but a pastor,
severe depression and physical issues. Hudson Taylor, massive depression, and incredible,
I mean, he was laid up in a bed for
over a year.
wanted to kill himself. Adoniram Judson lived in a tree
(19:01):
because he lost his spouse. He lost his mind and
he wanted to die. But you know what? It was
the years after that were the most fruitful in every
single one of those people's lives. So for you to
cut that short is to rob the world of the
gift of you that God would use in the world.
So please don't do that.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Sean.
Yeah, I'm sorry for the loss of your husband. That's
a lot.
Yeah, and just for the things that you've seen and
you'd experienced, you know, oftentimes I, I share with people
living on mission, you know, um, what Luke and Luke when, uh,
Jesus calls the disciples to himself, you know, after the
(19:40):
return setting out the 70, they return, um, that they
had authority over the demons and they're celebrating and he said,
you know, rejoice that your names are written in heaven, right?
And then there's this talk that he has when he,
he pulls them aside and he says,
Blessed are the eyes that see the things that you see,
and it just always stuck with me in mission as
we follow out and step out in faith that we're
(20:02):
gonna see amazing things that we would never experience, whatever
that context is, whatever that mission field is, but you've
seen things and some of those things are really hard.
And so, um, I just think maybe not to your
question about suicide, I think Phil um answer that great,
but I wanted to encourage you from Philippians one verse 21.
Where Paul is talking to the church in Philippi, and
(20:23):
you know he's, he's kind of talking about this kind
of inner wrestling that's going on. And just to remind you,
it's probably a familiar verse to you as you minister
to others, but it says, for to me to live
as Christ and to die as gain. But if I
live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit from
my labor. Yet what shall I choose? I cannot tell,
for I am hard pressed, and I want you to
(20:43):
hear that, hard pressed between the two, having a desire
to depart and be with Christ.
Which is far better. Nevertheless, to remain in the flesh
is more needful for you.
And being confident of this, I know that I shall
remain and continue with you all for your progress and
joy of faith, that your rejoicing for me may be
(21:06):
more abundant in Jesus Christ by my coming to you again.
Fabula, you've had an impact on so many lives, and
I'm sure.
And so just I think to echo what Phil was
saying on the example part, I think they're looking to
you from a distance and I don't mean that as
as you follow Jesus. And so with this, I know
that there's this part of like probably this ache for peace,
(21:28):
and just to be whole and to be with the
Lord in His presence, but just in this moment of tension,
know that there's others that, man, you have been planting
seeds in their life. You've walked with them and they're
watching you and how you persevere through this, and that's
not an extra burden.
But there is a part of leadership where yeah, it's
there's things that you carry that are unique. Let's just
(21:48):
say that. So I just want to encourage you in that,
that you can exist in that tension and that we're
with you as you kind of persevere in the call
of God on your life. And so it's worth it, Fabiola.
So thank you for calling. Phil, would you pray for Fabiola?
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Yeah, I'd love to. Thanks for the opportunity. Lord, we
just pray for Fabiola, um, gosh, emotionally and then physically
going through so much trauma, and I, we pray Jesus
for healing over her body and for grace over her heart.
And we just pray that Lord, um, you know, your,
your word never makes us like we're, we don't.
(22:24):
It's OK for us to be discouraged and depressed and
and feel defeated. That like, it's, it's OK to feel
that way. It's not sinful to feel that way, but Lord,
please don't let Fabiola give in to those, to what
she's feeling right now and just bring healing and wholeness
and just pour out your grace upon her and touch her. Lord.
Let her see.
Value in her, you know, for me to live as
(22:46):
Christ and to die as gain, but to be here
is expedient, it's necessary for the world that we live in.
We have to still be here. Sure, we all want
to go be with God in heaven, but
We're needed here for this season, so like, just reinstill
that into Fabiola's heart in Jesus' name. Amen.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Amen. Amen. And if everybody listening and watching can keep
Fabiola in your prayers, that'd be great too. 888-564-6173 is
our number. My name is Brian Perez. I'm here with
Doctor Pastor Phil Metzger, or Pastor Doctor Phil Metzger, and, uh,
Pastor Sean Haviar from Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa. It's his
first time here, and I think he's doing a good
job so far. Thank you.
(23:26):
888-564-6173. Let's talk to Michael and Sam Bernardino. Thank you, Michael,
for calling in at 888-564-6173. What's up?
Yeah, I just wanted to ask, so what's the difference
between John 14:26 and John 15:26?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Where it says when the Father will send the Holy
Spirit and the other one says that Jesus will send
the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Hm. All right, Phil, what would you
say?
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Yeah, that's a great question, and you're, you're, you're actually, it's,
it's cool that you're seeing that and a good job
in in reading and just seeing what you're reading. So
what you're seeing there is, you're seeing the trinity, the Trinity,
the the the God the Father, God the Son, God
the spirit, all working together.
And so in John 14:26, the Father is sending the Spirit,
(24:21):
and in John 15:26, Jesus is sending the Spirit. God
the Father, God the Son sending God the Spirit, and
the emphasis of the Spirit in John 14 is on
internal guidance and discipleship.
And then in John 15, the sending of the spirit
focuses on external mission and external witness. What what happens outwardly,
(24:44):
John 14, what's happening inwardly. So,
It's a really good catch to see that. I hope
this helps, but we're talking about God the Father sending
the Spirit in John 14, God the Son sending the
Spirit in John 15. They are 3 in 1.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Anything to add, Sean?
I think what Michael, Michael?
I, I, that's what I've always heard, but people recently, uh,
they've been telling me that God manifests Jesus, that they're
Speaker 2 (25:10):
not
Speaker 1 (25:11):
3,
Speaker 2 (25:11):
they're 1, and that God manifests the Holy Spirit and Jesus,
and I've always heard that they're all one, you know,
there are 3, they're 3 entities, but one, but that's
what that that's, that's a part, Michael, that's a part
of a a teaching that was discredited, you know, really
early on by the early church fathers, and it's the
idea that they're not.
(25:32):
It's, it's, it's one God and just persona, but no,
there are, the Bible is clear that it is 3 beings, 3,
that the 3, it's a godhead, one God, 3 persons.
So that that's a different teaching that is suggesting that.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Sean.
Yeah, I mean, I just, this is, I don't know
if this specifically answers your question, Michael, because maybe there's
something even in that, um, but just the, the knowing
that for the disciple that we need the helper, right?
In either case, whether it's John 14 or John 15,
that this is a gift, right, given by God for
(26:11):
those that would follow him. So this is something that
as Phil mentioned, this is things that are going on
internally helping there and then helping us live out the
Christian witness in the world so.
Um, yeah, I hope this was helpful for you. Was
it helpful for you, Michael?
Yes, thank you. I just, I just want, cause I've
always heard that, you know, they're 3 and then.
I know the Bible speaks of what, you know, if some,
(26:33):
if somebody comes with something different, don't believe it's just,
but I just wanted to get, you know, clarification on
what's the difference, but I think y'all now, you know,
I understand it, you know. Awesome. A totally different scenario. I've,
I've always believed in in in 33 persons, you know,
but they all have the same.
Uh, they all represent one another in the same. All right, well,
(26:56):
thank you for calling in today, Michael. 888-564-6173 is the
number to call us. We're going to be here for
another 30 minutes, and we would love to hear from you.
Let me read a question that was sent in on Facebook.
This is from Brittany in Antelope, California.
Should I be concerned with the Calvary Chapel Church? I
want to know if the Calvary Chapel denomination of churches
(27:17):
has any areas of concern, such as differing basics of
truth on the Trinity and the sanctification principle, Phil.
I don't know if Brittany knows that we're a Calvary
Chapel radio station, but, uh,
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you should have lots of, no, I mean,
I got, it's always good to, I, I actually appreciate
the fact that somebody's gonna say, hey, should I have concerns?
Good for you. You should always have, like, you should
always be willing to like, say, hey, I need to
check this out. I think it's, it's what makes one
of the cool groups in the New Testament. They were
called the Bereans, that's where they were from. But they were,
they were considered really noble cause they searched the scriptures, right?
(27:53):
So
I think that's great. Um, I am a pastor of
a Calvary Chapel church, so it's Sean, Brian Perez is
a part of the Calvary Chapel Churches. Um, Kwave is
for the body of Christ and it's for all people, um,
but we happen to be a part of Calvary, and no, when,
as it relates to the Trinity and sanctification, we are
an evangelical church that believes in like historical evangelicalism. We
(28:17):
are a, we believe in the Bible and in the
work of God and the Spirit, so.
You don't need to have any concerns about the church
as it relates to being, I'll use this word, kind
of an orthodox, not orthodox Christianity, but an Orthodox normal
church that believes the Bible, believes in Jesus, believes in
the Trinity, believes in God.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
All right, Brittany, I hope that answers your question. Thank
you for sending it in via Facebook Messenger, and it's
just about time for our break. We'll be back in
just a moment with more of your questions. Grab an
open line while there's still time. 888-564-6173 is our number.
Same number you see there on the bottom of your
screen if you're watching on Facebook, YouTube, or Instagram. If
(28:55):
you've got a question for us, you can also send
it in by
Scanning that QR code there on Facebook, YouTube, or Instagram,
but the best way to get an answer is to
call us when we're here live, like today. We're here
live Monday through Friday from 3 to 4 p.m. Pacific time,
except holidays. So we would love to hear from you
right now if you're watching us live or listening live, 888-564-6173,
(29:20):
and we will be back in just a moment.
(30:19):
We're back on Pastor's Perspective. Thanks so much for listening.
Thank you for watching, maybe on the radio, maybe on
a podcast, YouTube, Facebook, Instagram. We're all over the place.
Thank you so much for listening and for calling in. 888-564-6173.
You can get your question in and talk to Phil
Metzger and Sean Havilar. Phil is the pastor of Calvary
(30:40):
San Diego. Sean is a pastor of, uh, what do
they call it, executive. Hold on, let me, let me
get the title right. Executive director of Mission and Care.
What does that mean? That is, uh, we have an
executive team at Calvi Chapel Costa Mesa, so I get
to serve in two of the pillars.
That are kind of made up of our core values
here at the church, so overseeing both mission and care.
(31:00):
Nice with a great team. So yeah, yeah, we do
have a great team here. You can find out more
about Calvary Costa Mesa, CCCM.com is their website and Phil's
Church Calvary SD. Why do I alwaysforget.
Calm, yes, Calvary, yes, it's so easy, but I always
think that it's gonna be one of these.net or some
(31:20):
other thing like that. But yeah, find out more.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
I'll try to get some exotic, you know,
Speaker 1 (31:26):
or I don't know, yeah, there's so many of them
out there now. All right, 888-564-6173 Rosie in Los Angeles. Hello,
welcome to Pastor's Perspective.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Hi there, good afternoon. Um, I had a question about, uh,
with all this talk about Israel
Speaker 1 (31:43):
and
Speaker 2 (31:44):
World
Speaker 1 (31:44):
War
Speaker 2 (31:44):
3, who
Speaker 1 (31:46):
exactly,
Speaker 2 (31:47):
what countries or cities are Gog and Magog?
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Phil Metzger.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Yeah, good question. I'm sorry, I had my, uh, I
had my um
I was muted for a second, so I started to
get going and I was muted. Apologies. Um, good question,
and it does come up a lot, especially with everything
that's going on right now. And there are very differing
opinions about who is Gog and who is Magog. So
depending on how you see and understand the scripture, for
(32:15):
some people, the idea of Gog and Magog are those
that are, it's actually representative of a group of people
that are in opposition to God.
And so, for some, it's not about a specific location,
but about the concept of just being like, it's people
who are against God in the last days.
On the other hand, those that hold to a more specific,
(32:36):
you're usually looking, which is why it's always a fascinating
thing of what's happening in the world. You're usually looking
at these nations, Gog and Magog, representing those nations that
are near Russia. So either Russia specific or within that
kind of region, and that um these are representative of
the leader of that and then the area of that.
(32:58):
And so for those who
Hold to that view, they see the, the uh rise
of Russia that is working really against uh the world,
they see that as really indicative of, of something. So
Gog and Magog usually representing Russia or the Russian leader
at that time.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
What do you think, Rosie?
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Yes, I had heard that.
It was referred to as Russia.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
I've
Speaker 2 (33:27):
even
Speaker 1 (33:27):
heard
Speaker 2 (33:27):
of it as China,
Speaker 1 (33:28):
but I mean.
I don't know.
Mhm, Sean.
So yes, that was,
yeah.
Yeah, I'm uh I'm just on a Rosie, I'm curious
as to, yeah, what's the question of the question? Is
there just trying to get um biblical clarity on it,
or is it just, is there some fear or just
uncertainty right now for you?
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Just more uh biblical clarity because growing up um.
I was always taught that those, that was referred to
like Russia
Speaker 1 (34:00):
or
Speaker 2 (34:01):
the
Speaker 1 (34:01):
or
Speaker 2 (34:02):
the
Speaker 1 (34:02):
armies
Speaker 2 (34:02):
of the east. I'm not sure if that's true, and
just all this that's happened recently
Speaker 1 (34:08):
has got, like, you know, got me thinking like, oh.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Here we go.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Right, right, yeah.
Yeah, I think there's this um.
And and then the reason I asked this because I
think there's this in these times where there's so much
chaos going on around the world that there can be
proclivity towards fear, right? Uh, even among God's people as
followers of Jesus and just thinking of just recently heard
a message about just um from John 20 about on
(34:36):
the day of the resurrection and the disciples are huddled
in a room where for fear of the Jews and
Jesus met them in that room, meets his disciples and
says peace be with you, and he had a mission
for them.
In the midst of fear. And so that's just kind
of my, my thing of like as we kind of
wrestle with these things and we see these events happening
(34:56):
around us and are trying to define, I know that
there is a temptation or a draw towards fear. So
just want to encourage you in that faith and that
call um of whatever he has for you that he's
speaking peace into it and that he is completely in control.
Would you say there's another side to the coin too,
where maybe it's not about fear, but it's about
(35:17):
You know, wanting to tell your neighbor, hey, can't you
see what's going on here? This is the end, but
the only thing about that is, if nothing happens in
a few weeks, if all this kind of goes away, then, oh,
now we have to save face with our neighbor and say, oh, OK,
I guess this wasn't it, but yeah, I think.
Sometimes if we make the times, the focal point, I mean,
(35:37):
I think there should always be an urgency in in
sharing the gospel and connecting with people, but it's because
it's oftentimes in relationship, um, it's just continually being present
and showing up because I think we have the message, right?
We have the goods of the gospel, but are we
also present with people and their different questions and their
challenges and I think that's the kind of
(35:58):
I guess context that I think people are in need
of an epidemic of loneliness and world chaos and where
do I belong and needing something to hold on to.
I think that's always been the case, but it seems
so prevalent nowadays.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Yeah, I mean, it's a good conversation. Yeah, I mean, it's,
it's kind of, you know, to use like a modern word,
it's kind of easy to use these like events as clickbait.
Yeah, you know, oh, look at what's happening here and
look at what's happening there, and, and certainly,
You know, we want to be kind of aware of
what's going on and how that could impact our witness
and how we express the gospel. The thing I like
to always remind people, and I feel like, to your point, Brian,
(36:33):
cause it's a really good one. It's like, if I
fix my view of the last days on, look at
what's happening in, say, Russia or Iran or in Israel,
and then nothing changes, yeah, I kind of feel like,
you kind of feel foolish. But where I really wanna,
I wanna kind of like
Center my my conviction on the last days is that
(36:54):
the Bible tells me that the last days began when
Jesus rose from the dead. We're living in the last days,
and I mean like we we're, I mean, and in
that case, I feel a greater sense of urgency. We're
2000 years since the time that Jesus rose from the dead,
and if disciples then were saying this is it.
How much closer are we to this is it? And
(37:17):
I love what Sean, what you said there, buddy, that
it's like, we kind of live with a sense of urgency,
not because of an event that's happening, but because of
the event that has changed everything. That was the death, burial,
and then resurrection of Jesus. This is the transformative event
that should be like.
Turning my head to look up. It's not, I'm not
looking for an anti-Christ, I'm not looking for like, if
(37:39):
Russia does this, you know, X, Y, and Z, then
everything is gonna change. The world has already changed. It's
been turned upside down or right side up.
If you will, because of the resurrection and now at
any moment, I believe that Jesus could come back. He's
not standing at the gates and waiting. As soon as
this happens, then I can come back. The Bible is
(38:01):
really clear, like he could come back at any time.
He's not waiting for any world events, so.
I think world events are really, gosh, it's good to
stay aware. I think from a mission perspective, I want
to be aware um for how I'm sharing the gospel
and being thoughtful to people, but as it relates to
end times, we are living in the last days. That's the,
that's the, that's the straight up truth.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
What about the passage that talks about uh peace and
safety and then comes sudden destruction. So that almost makes
it seem like we're looking at all these wars going
on and it's, is it gonna be more like when
things settle down and then that's when things are gonna explode.
What do you think about that?
Um, I guess there's a part of me that as
(38:45):
I just look through and just look at the early
church and then continuing on, that there's just this constant
opposition from outside, from inside, from, um, world events, rulers,
powers that be just a different kingdom values, the different
people that are in authority and uh there's a call to.
(39:06):
Just follow Jesus. I mean, I don't, I, I have
no other source of peace, truly, like, I can, I've tried, right?
We can try other things, but I think to to
experience that true peace in its lasting sense is only
in being in his will. And so,
Speaker 2 (39:23):
yeah.
You know, I love that. You know what I'm thinking
too is like the people that heard that said weren't
surprised by the sudden terror part, they were surprised by
the there would be peace.
Cause there was no peace, like nobody had any peace.
Life was complete chaos all the time. And then this
new thing that God was doing created even more turmoil, more,
more pain and suffering for a lot of good people.
(39:45):
So I would think that a lot of them were like, wow,
there's gonna be seasons where the uh
The possibility that things could actually be at peace, and
so we live in a time where we're like, the
idea of sudden terror sounds unreal. Um, most of the
world lives at the, the sense of peace sounds unreal,
and so I think it's kind of like a perspective
of how I see.
(40:06):
You know, where I kind of, um, emphasize which part
of that. And I think for the early church, their
emphasis would have been, wow, there's actually is gonna be
some peace that's gonna happen. And we can't let that
lull us into the idea that we're safe. We will
only be safe until Christ comes for us. Where we
struggle with today is like we've become lulled into feeling
(40:28):
like we're safe. And
The idea of anything that would create discomfort or instability, um,
upsets our faith. And so we, we, we're kind of
coming at it from two different sides there and but
that's a, that's a great, that's a great verse to
bring up in that context, Brian. I love that.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
Rosie, thanks for your phone call today on Pastor's Perspective.
Now let's go to LA. Here is Gonzalo. How can
we help you, Gonzalo? Thanks for calling 888-564-6173.
Hello,
Speaker 2 (40:54):
thank
Speaker 1 (40:55):
you for taking my call. This is Gonzalo from LA. Yes,
I know I, I, I hear a lot of,
Speaker 2 (41:01):
uh, I,
Speaker 1 (41:02):
I see a lot of videos on either YouTube or
Facebook where this, uh, priest.
Del Toro, he claims.
That the Bible was actually made up by the Catholic
Church and that Jesus Christ
And that all the apostles were actually Catholics. Would you
(41:22):
please give me some resources so I can um.
Say or write to those uh people. Mm not having
the whole um
The whole story?
First thing I would say is, careful what you see
on YouTube or Facebook or any of those because they're
all kind of, so, let me again make my case
(41:43):
for Christian radio, for K-wave. OK, so all the pastors
you hear here on K-wave.
Including Phil Metzger, including Sean Haviar. We're not gonna put
them on if their doctrine is kind of off. That
doesn't mean that if you don't hear a particular pastor
on K-wave, that their doctrine is off. It doesn't mean that,
but everybody here on K-wave, we vet and you can
(42:05):
trust what they're saying. We may not agree on 100%
of the issues, but on the major ones we do. So,
these people on YouTube, they just upload videos all day
long and uh.
Scare people and tell them you're being deceived. Send me
money and I'll tell you more. Uh, so that's my
quick word of caution. But Phil Metzger, take it away.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
I always get
Speaker 2 (42:27):
defensive
Speaker 1 (42:28):
when I hear that stuff.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
It's
Speaker 1 (42:29):
like,
Speaker 2 (42:29):
uh, so yeah, so, um, OK, uh, Gonzalo, it's thanks,
thanks for this, and let me like
I'm gonna parse some words for you, OK? Um, the
word Catholic means universal. It was a word used very
early on in the history of the church by about, like,
I think it was, I was trying to look it up,
something like within the like by 110, 111, 1 of
(42:53):
the early church fathers used the word Catholic. That's not
the same as the Roman Catholic Church.
That came into being centuries later.
The Catholic faith, or the Catholic Church, all the old
early church fathers, they would use that language in the 200s,
in the 300s, the Catholic faith. That's not referring to
(43:15):
the idea of a pope, or these bishops, or that
that system. That system came in, like I said, centuries
later to really becoming a, a, an institution.
But the idea of Catholics. So when you say, did
the Catholics write the Bible, yes, the Catholic, the, the,
the universal church, God spoke to the apostles, they wrote,
(43:37):
they wrote God's word down. God spoke to prophets, they
wrote the word down. God spoke to Moses, and he
wrote that I could just keep going on with all
the writers of the scripture. We call that the universal faith,
that's the Catholic faith, but don't listen to whatever is
being told to you, that that means
That the current Roman Catholic Church as it is, wrote
the Bible. God wrote the Bible and he gave it
to his people, and it has been passed down generation
(44:01):
to generation, OK?
Speaker 1 (44:03):
So Gonzalo wants to write a letter to this particular guy. Uh, what,
what could Gonzalo tell him that might change his mind,
or would that almost be a wasted effort because, I mean,
not to say that we couldn't couldn't speak truth to him,
but would he start to doubt and no, no, no,
I'm right, you're wrong. I mean, I don't know. I
(44:25):
think we live in, thank you, Gonzalo again for the question.
I think we live in interesting times with social media
and um you know, self-proclaimed profits or I have the
new revelation or I can tell you what's going on
in this place and that place and um typically social
media isn't a place to have dialogue. It's a place
where people express their opinions or cancel other people a
(44:48):
differing opinions, so.
Um, I would just ask you to be prayerful, Gonzalo,
like what you want to say and what the purpose
is and wanting to say. I appreciate your heart for
wanting to, you know, know the source of where scripture
comes from, but I think that the other side of that,
Gonzalo is to say we want to have a place
where we can have a conversation. If someone is there's
(45:10):
no relationship, they don't know you, there's not a, you're
not under their leadership as far as like this isn't
a church leader that you're going to, that would be
a different conversation.
Um, I would just, just ask you to be prayerful
in that because he might not respond in the way
that you might hope he would. So, but, but I
don't know your convictions, so I'm not the Holy Spirit,
so I just wanna just throw that out there as
(45:30):
a word of caution, but also, um, yeah, prayers for you. Gonzalo,
as you just kind of continue forward in the truth.
Amen. Gonzalo, thank you for your phone call today on
Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is the number. Got a few minutes left.
Here's a question that was sent in online through Kwave.com.
It's from Ryan. I have a good friend who is
(45:50):
a domestic abuse survivor. Her ex-husband hit her and refused
to pay the rent. She needed time to heal or
else we would be dating.
She feels compelled to a life of singlehood due to
this and her disability. She's working on becoming a Christian counselor.
Ryan's question Why do some men feel the need to
(46:11):
physically abuse their wives, and how can I see God's
hand in this romantic rejection? Do you feel that when
she said you made a profound difference in my life,
that that will appeal to other women who might want
to date me in the future?
What would you say, Sean?
Wow.
That's just there's a, there's a lot of layered in
(46:32):
nuance questions there. So um let me just
Think through that. I'm actually gonna pitch to Phil. Sorry,
I hate to to call the bullpen. I'm just trying
to process through some of those, yeah,
Speaker 2 (46:46):
no, I, I want to hear your thoughts. I'll mention
a few things here. Yeah, because I think, you know, Ryan,
that's a cool question. I mean, we can't answer the question,
why do some men feel the need to physically abuse
their wives? I mean that's.
Not because it's a dumb question, but because it's like, I,
I can't get into the mind of anyone who would
ever hit another, like a man that would hit a woman,
a woman that he's in a relationship with. It makes
(47:07):
no sense. So I have no idea and don't even
wanna give suggestions because in doing that, it might sound
like I'm sympathetic and I'm not. So, I got nothing
for you on why anybody would ever do that. But I,
I can speak to the idea that like, yeah, this
is a person that's been hurt, you know, just based
on what you're saying there.
And I think a guy like yourself who like is
(47:27):
just saying like, I wanna, I don't wanna be that
kind of person. I wanna be a different kind of person.
I wanna be stand up. I wanna be gentle, kind, loving,
thoughtful kind of human being. Dude, I think that like,
and you, you love Jesus, there's gonna be girls that
are interested in you, and you just gotta give it
some time and wait and
You know, I appreciate that she's not in a place
where she wants to be in a relationship. And for
(47:48):
you to respect that and just kinda move forward, and
God's got something for you, be a good dude, be
kind to women, treat them respectfully, you know, as sisters
in Christ, and yes, it will definitely appeal. There's a
lot of ladies that are gonna hear that and go, man,
I want a guy who's like super thoughtful like that
and cares about, cares about me.
(48:09):
They don't need any bad guys like that, so just
give it some time, Ryan, wait, you know, obviously this guy.
This is not for you, and you just take it
as that, like, hey, this is not where she's at.
She's at it hard, she doesn't want to be in
a relationship, then respect it, stay friends, but just know
that like God will, God will open the door when
he's ready. You just keep being a good dude, love Jesus,
(48:31):
be nice to people, especially to women. Don't hide in
a corner, don't like wait in a closet for God
to bring somebody, be out there, live your life, go
to church, go to groups, meet people, and, um, go
to bring somebody.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
Yeah.
Yeah, and I just think of the word impact because
um I'm just if I'm understanding or reading your question right, um.
This, this, this, this word of you made a profound
difference in my life. I think I hope as Christians
that we want to impact others for good, right? It
sounds like there's a redemption story and that your friend
(49:04):
is in process through this, but in that, um, we
want to by God's with God's help, right? And his
leading make an impact for others. Now I can't speak
to the romantic part. I don't know all the dynamics,
that's a whole another kind of sidebar conversation, but I think.
You're right in wanting to um make that profound impact
on another person's life and and if you have, man,
(49:27):
that's a gift.
That's a gift through you to her like if she
recognized that and I think that's attractive, that's the fragrance
of Christ to all people, whether it's just a brother
in the Lord saying, man, thank you for that encouragement
for walking with me through people that have abused me
or hurt me or challenged me or come up come
against me. You've advocated for me, you stood with me.
I think there's a lot of Jesus being seen in that.
(49:49):
So I think not only is that.
Potentially bode well for finding someone down the road, but
I think just in friendship and in just being a
Christian witness in this life. So, so if Ryan is
having a good impact on someone, yes, whether it's a
romantic relationship or not, that's a good thing. But my
red flag here, sorry, I did, I would hate for
(50:11):
Ryan to, you know, if he's on a date with
a woman.
Somebody else, and they're sitting at this restaurant and he says,
you know, other women have said what a great impact
I am on their on their life. Can we go
out again? I mean, would that be, I mean, I'm,
I don't think Ryan's doing that. I would hope not.
I'm just reading the question at face value what I
see here, but.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
What do you say? Yeah, I hope not either. I man,
you got me freaking out now, Brian Perez. No, no, no, uh, no,
I think, I think you're right though. Like, I mean, again,
like that's the point, like be a good guy, that
would be manipulative what you described, and people do this
and you're right, like it's terrible. You're gonna like.
Make somebody feel a certain way by saying, hey, I'm
(50:52):
this kind of a person, yada yada. No, don't do that.
Just be a decent person. Don't, don't manipulate, don't control, don't, don't,
don't do any of that stuff. And just be, be decent.
This person that you were, it sounds like you were
a good guy to that person, be a good guy
to other people, but don't, don't manipulate or control anybody.
That stuff, oh, that stuff's so scary. I agree. Yucky.
(51:13):
Sean, it's
Speaker 1 (51:14):
I don't think
Speaker 2 (51:14):
that's a word yucky is yucky. Can I use yucky
on this show? Yucky.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
Is it in the original manuscript or yeah, I mean,
I just think God's so faithful, right? Like just continue
to follow Jesus, and I don't mean to make this
overly simplistic, but really the Bible makes it pretty clear
for us like calling to follow him, the faithful one,
and he'll and he'll continue to lead you and just
(51:39):
keep your eyes open, continue to remain faithful.
And I just, yeah, can't echo enough and amen enough
the the weirdness it would be and it's it has
happened to manipulate others and again, or even prey on,
on from a man on women that have been abused
like that can be a thing. And then unfortunately in
our day and age there's a lot of women who
have been mistreated and not treated as image bearriers as
(52:02):
having any level of mutuality who have been diminished. So
I think, yeah, you treat it with care, but honor, honor.
Honor your sister. Ryan, thank you for sending in your
question through Kwave.com. And now here's one from Daniel in
San Bernardino. Daniel writes, when tithing, I know it's supposed
to be 10%. Is that 10% every week or just
(52:27):
when I get my income? Also, do I need to
do it when I go to church, or can I
do it once I get paid on Fridays? Phil, what
do you say to Daniel?
Speaker 2 (52:37):
Well, Daniel, the Bible, when the Bible talks about tithing,
first of all, it's true, that's, there's an Old Testament, um,
Kind of, you know, a part of the Jewish system,
like the Jews, that was a part of their, their
social system was that the tithe was used for the,
the temple institute institution and the priesthood and so on
and so forth. When we get into the New Testament,
(52:59):
the idea of tithing or generosity becomes a little bit different, not, uh,
maybe not less, but just a little bit different. It's
no longer based on like you're a part of, it's like,
it's not the nationality that you're supporting this institution.
Um, and we're not supposed to tie to support the
institution of church, but we give as unto the Lord,
and the Bible says actually be a a hilarious, like
(53:21):
a cheerful giver. Give with just so much joy that's
in your heart. So,
I wanna, like, protect you from this feeling of like,
I know it's supposed to be 10%. I would say
the Bible's encouragement is this.
If you choose that it's going to be 10%, then
do that with so much joy in your heart that
you've made that decision.
In terms of the timing, dude, no, no worries on
(53:42):
that stuff. You don't have to go to church. Uh,
we live in a technologically advanced time when you can
just do that online. You can do that when you
get paid. You can, the, the thing that I would
encourage is not like what day and what location, but
to be like a really consistent person. I, I, the
thing about like, and I, I wrestle talking about tithing
always because on the one hand, we can be manipulative
(54:04):
in that, and I, I don't, we don't want to
be manipulative. On the other hand,
I do feel the urgency in my church, at least,
to tell to remind people that tithing is a part
of my relationship with Christ, where I'm trusting Him with
my resources. So God gave these things to me, and
now I'm giving back to Him, and I'm trusting Him.
I'm not gonna trust in, um, my money, but I'm
(54:25):
gonna trust in the Lord. So, with that said, dude, um,
have that freedom, do it as God's leading you, but
as he's leading you, be super consistent. Don't worry about
what day, don't worry about what time, just
Be free in that stuff.
Speaker 1 (54:37):
I almost see Daniel as a hilarious giver because he
gets paid on Friday. He doesn't want to wait till Sunday.
It sounds like he would. I just want to give
this money to the Lord right now. I mean, that
to me tells me that he's got the good heart.
If anything, if your church does online giving, just, you know,
log in, send it in, and yeah, you don't have
to wait till Sunday, doesn't have to be 10%, you know,
(54:59):
whatever you, whatever you work out, I guess with the
Lord is how you could look at it. I think
just sorry to add to this is just that um.
Yeah, we belong to the Lord. You belong to the Lord, Daniel,
and just whatever that looks like and as the Lord
continues to lead you as you follow him, just continue
to just be led by him. Like there's, I appreciate
the consistency and the discipline of giving sacrificially, but also
(55:20):
as Phil already alluded to, like inside Corinthians talking about
that cheerful giver, like, not grudgingly, not like.
Oh, like wiping our heads and putting our faces in
the ground and look at how much I'm giving. I
think that can be also really weird, and I think
the Bible kind of alludes to that in the early
church that there is an idea that we should be
different types of givers because God gave Himself for us. Yeah. Daniel,
(55:43):
thank you for sending in your question. We're out of time. Metzger,
thank you for joining us today. Sean, good job. We're
going to have you back again one of these days. Yeah, yeah,
thanks for having me. Awesome. Cool. That wasn't a yes.
Did you notice that, Phil?
We'll be back tomorrow on Pastor's Perspective.
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