July 7, 2025 • 56 mins
Pastors' Perspective is a one-hour call-in program where listeners can call in and get answers to questions about the Bible, Christianity, family, and life. The program is live Monday through Friday from 3:00 PM - 4:00 PM Pacific. You can call 888-564-6173 to ask your questions.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
This program is pre-recorded.
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez.
We are here till 4 o'clock today to talk to
you about whatever questions you might have about the Bible,
(00:29):
the Christian faith, just about anything that's on your mind, prophecy.
Uh, the book of Revelation, the Gospels, the epistles, anywhere
in between. We can talk about it all today here
on Pastor's Perspective, and the number to call is 888-564-6173.
We will not be live tomorrow, so if you have
a question for us, better call in today, otherwise you're
(00:52):
gonna have to wait until Monday. You don't want to
go through like a 4 day weekend or a three
day weekend with, uh, these questions. That's right, yeah. You
don't want these questions lingering in your
through the weekend. So call in today at 888-564-6173. And
answering your questions today, we've got Tommy Koda. He's here
in the studio with me. He's the senior pastor of
(01:14):
Hope Alive Christian Hope Alive Church. Hope Alive. Well, it
is a Christian church. Yes, yes, yes. Go get, gotta
make that clear. Hope Alive Church in Santa Ana. And
joining us online, we've got Phil Metzger, the pastor of
Calvary San Diego, which is also a Christian church. Hi there, Phil.
How are you?
Phil was there. Phil was there. Now Bobby's here. OK,
(01:35):
so yeah, I was gonna wait till, uh, till till
the end to introduce Bobby, but yeah, so Bobby is here.
Bobby Conway, pastor of Images Church in, uh, Charlotte, North Carolina. Phil,
I don't know, maybe the rapture took place. Could that
be man only in San Diego. On the, only in yes,
it's a little man. It's making its way up. We're next, yes.
(01:56):
All right. So, uh, might, might have Phil on the phone.
Maybe that's how we're gonna have Phil today. I don't know.
We'll see. But anyway, we're here to answer the questions
you've guys got at 888-564-6173. You can also send in
your questions through the Pastor's Perspective Facebook Messenger or by
DMing us on the Pastor's Perspective Instagram, or you can
(02:17):
go to Kwave.com, look for the Pastor's perspective.
Page and you can fill out the form there. That
gets your question here to us and then we can
answer it here on the radio, but the best way
to get an answer is to call us. So do
so right now, grab an open line at 888-564-6173. Here's
one of those questions that was sent in online. This
is from Deirdre in Salinas, California. She sent this on Facebook.
(02:42):
Is Jesus still considered a human?
And will we be known as human when we're in heaven? Also,
why do you suppose Jesus chose John to take care
of his mother? Didn't he have sisters and brothers to
do this? Bobby, what do you say to Deirdre?
Well, I just think that in that type of society,
more of a, a patriarchal and not a toxic masculine style,
(03:07):
Uh, it was the responsibility of the man who was
seen as the leader of a home to take responsibility
and so you can see that it doesn't imply that
nobody else was to make sure that her needs were
cared for, uh, but it's also hard for us to
know all that was entailed in that statement.
(03:28):
I can imagine a conversation before Jesus went to the
cross where he pulled John off to the side and said, Hey,
my wife, my mom's about to really go through it
and she's gonna really be hurting and she's gonna have
these types of needs. And then he reminds him of
that from the cross. So that's about all I could
say for that without adding any more detail that I
(03:50):
might feel like I'm getting into speculative ground, Tommy.
Yeah, no, that's a, that's a very good and interesting question, um,
you know, and perhaps it was maybe Jesus even thinking that,
you know, um,
His, his, you know, because the, the question also said
that he had brothers and sisters and so perhaps maybe
it was his brothers and sisters wasn't, they weren't really
(04:13):
following him at the time, you know, and so, and
John was a disciple and a follower and so kind
of leaning into what what Bobby had said too is like,
hey man, leader, leader the way that I've been teaching
you and love her, you know, and and and those
things so.
You know, he didn't, I don't think he said, he said,
behold this, like this is your mother now. It's like, hey, um,
(04:36):
is that how I don't remember exactly how Jesus said it,
but um look that up. I think that's the end
of there. Could it be that the other brothers were irresponsible,
maybe playing video games in the basement all day and
you know, they didn't couldn't keep a job. I don't know, maybe, yeah,
but again, it's just speculation on, you know, what Bobby said.
Yeah, yeah, take for example James. So James, the half
(04:59):
brother of Jesus, he would eventually believe, right? Uh, die
a martyr's death, right, the book of James, uh, but
John was very close to Jesus, uh, and you know
that Jesus, uh, siblings were criticizing him, thinking that he'd
lost his mind at times. And so I do think
that that's, you know, a good answer that you're giving.
(05:21):
Right there because uh they didn't seem like they're all
over the place. So and again thinking about the spiritual life, it,
you know, there's something even deeper of spiritual connection as
Christians that transcend even the physical bonds that that we
can have when we realize what all that entails. So
(05:42):
there have been people that, for example, they're they're at
odds with their family once they become a believer.
Uh, and they find a new family in the church.
And so it is possible that some of that's there,
but again, we're a little bit on speculative ground. Did
we cover Deirdre's other question? Oh, about Jesus being, is
(06:02):
he still considered human and will we be considered human
when we're in heaven?
Bobby.
Yes, uh, so Jesus, when he took on his human nature,
obviously when the resurrection happened, uh, he rose with a
physical glorified body, and he's the first fruits of the resurrection,
(06:26):
and we too will have glorified bodies someday. Uh, but
that's pretty powerful. I mean, you think about God becoming flesh.
And you know I'm thinking if I was God and
I was already going on this rescue mission, I think
I'd want to shed that humanity afterwards, uh, but he
(06:46):
preserves that throughout all eternity. He, he took on a
part of.
Us throughout all eternity and we'll always uh remember that
and even the scars uh that people will get to
see that are believers reminiscent. I mean if if we
(07:06):
really digest that, I mean, think about having a moment
where maybe Jesus comes up and the technology is already
there and he comes up on.
On a big screen and there's just millions and millions
of people and he, and he's speaking and you're looking
at these scars that took place 2000 years ago or
(07:27):
whatever time it'll be at that point.
We'll just weep thinking wow and then to picture him going,
and you still retain that human body, which is amazing
and yet he gets a glorified body and he gives
that to us too when we believe so it's pretty beautiful. Yeah,
I'm I'm reminded of when after Jesus.
(07:48):
Uh, was crucified and, and he appeared to, uh, all
the disciples and he appeared to Thomas. He, he gets
there and, and he tells Thomas to touch, to touch
his wounds, you know, they're still there and, um, so yeah,
just having that those, those wounds remind us of the
price that was paid for our sin.
That's good. Yep. And look, Phil Metzger has joined us.
(08:10):
Phil from Calvary San Diego, at least on the phone,
maybe on video. I don't know. Hi there, Phil.
Hey guys, I'm on the phone, but I guess they
still got me on the video through Zoom. Oh, I
see how it works. Cool. Yeah, because you were there,
but then you just disappeared. Yeah, and I think Bobby
just disappeared and Bobby so the rapture just place in
North Carolina now. Yeah, yeah, he's back. OK. All right.
(08:33):
So we see Phil and but we're hearing him on
the phone, but it all, it all makes sense now.
Thank you, uh, Phil. Did you want to chime in
on these questions? Did, did you get a chance to hear?
What was that I have not heard anything since the
show started. There's been no sound on my end. OK, so, uh,
let's start all over. Do we have the music? Let's
just start the music all over again. No, I'm joking. Um,
(08:53):
so the question was a hot mess, Brian.
That's what we do best here. Uh, Deirdre sent this in.
Why do you suppose Jesus chose John to take care
of his mom if he had other brothers and sisters?
And then is Jesus still considered human and will we
be known as human when we're in heaven?
Wow, there's a few questions right there. Well, listen, what
(09:16):
whatever Tommy and Bobby said, I totally agree with it 100% correct,
and I know, uh, that's faith, that's faith right there. Yeah,
because Tommy was saying that you're gonna be God when
you get to heaven and so you're a heretic as well.
Oh man, Tommy that's a different radio station, bro.
Golly, I thought, I thought I could have more faith
(09:38):
in you there, Tommy, my goodness. Don't listen, don't listen
to Bobby. You can never trust somebody who was part
of a gang, bro. I'm just telling you, man. I've
been redeemed. I've been redeemed by the blood of Jesus. Wait, wait, he,
I don't think he's talking about that gang.
I think he's talking about the Dodgers gang that you're
there you go. Yeah, yeah, Clayton Kershaw 3000 strikeouts, yeah, celebrate.
(10:01):
Although yesterday's game was against the Chicago White Sox, so
does that count? It does. They all count. Why? I
don't think it should. I could strike out the White Sox. OK,
maybe not. Hey, I want to see that, Bobby. Um, hey, to, to,
to speak to that, I, I, I didn't hear what
anybody said. So if I'm repeating, please just make me stop, um.
I wonder if just because at that point there were
(10:22):
still siblings who hadn't put their faith in Jesus as Messiah, and,
and uh connecting, is this what you guys talked about
like probably John would serve as a as a great
kind of, you know, person to take care of Jesus'
mom who also believed that he was who he.
As he was and, you know, I'm sure that changed
and shifted. It doesn't seem like he, you know, that
(10:43):
was like his role the rest of her life or
his life, but just maybe for that kind of season.
So if that's what Tommy said, then he did a
good job. If he said something else, then, you know, we'll,
we'll question it. OK, I was, I might have been close.
90%. I was assuming I was right, Tommy, which is
absolutely not a good idea.
(11:07):
All right, very good. Deirdre, thank you for sending in
your question online, and now we're gonna go to the
phones at 888-564-6173. We're gonna start with Catherine, who's got
something important to say that, uh, I was gonna say
in a few minutes anyway, but, uh, go ahead, Katherine.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Hi, guys. Um, I just want to, well, call and
say number one, I love your guys' show. I've been
listening for years. And I was listening yesterday and I
heard Doctor Bobby Conway say he's, this is his last day.
So that made me sad.
But also, hearing your testimony for the very first time
inspired me to call in and ask a question. I've
(11:48):
been waiting for someone else to ask, um, but I
haven't heard it asked yet. Probably have, but I haven't
heard it. OK. Um, I'm a believer who has struggled
with addiction, uh, my whole life. Um, and I am
a believer who's in ministry, who's in service, and I
had a lot of sober time. And, um, I've recently
had a relapse.
(12:09):
Um, which was devastating for me and it's, it's been
difficult to get back on track, um, but I am
on track. I'm sober, and, um.
There's one question that has come up in a lot
of Christian circles, um, and not just in the world,
but that in the subject is on marijuana.
(12:30):
Um, my relapse began with marijuana. I was thinking that
it was medicinal, but for me, it's, it's not. Um,
and it was quickly recreationally, recreational. And then I started
having conversations with different people in the church about what
they thought about it. And there's a lot of, um,
(12:51):
There's a lot of separation there in regards to what,
no one can find it in the Bible, right? So
I've done a lot of research, and I have come
to the conclusion, the Holy Spirit has placed on my
heart that it is sorcery. Um, and that I can't
get a lot of people to agree with. So I'd
love to hear, um, what your opinion is on cannabis, um,
(13:13):
and the recreational use of it.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
All right, Bobby.
Well, thanks for calling. I, I, I would say one
thing just as a caution, I would be careful, uh, to,
to say the Holy Spirit's put that on your heart
is sorcery because if that really is true, then that
automatically would indict everybody that would use it for any reason.
(13:39):
Uh, so that's something we always want to be careful
in that, uh, just as a, uh, a friendly reminder. Uh,
the way that I look at that, um, personally is
the way that I would look at alcohol or anything
else when it comes to talking about, uh, the use
of some of this stuff like, uh, is it, is
(14:01):
it OK to recreationally get stoned? Uh, well, of course not,
just as it's not OK to recreationally get drunk.
Uh, but I think that the stigma that is so
there is, is something that you fast forward 50 years
from now, it's not gonna be the same stigma that
it is today.
(14:22):
Um, I think that the thing is, is there's moderation
principles that people have to apply and so somebody like there's,
there's people that, that use it for sleep. There's cancer
patients that use it medicinally for, uh, for keeping their
food down. The problem is, is if somebody gets into
(14:42):
using it even.
Medicinally or recreationally on the daily, then what's gonna happen
is their tolerance for it's going to start to skyrocket
and it's going to create a lot of problems in
that way. But if somebody was to come to me
and say, hey, I have cancer and I can't keep
(15:03):
my food down, uh, do you think it's bad to
use this for a season so that I can put
weight on?
Uh, this is me personally. I wouldn't see a problem
with that. If somebody also came to me and said, Hey,
every now and then, um, I have, uh, recreational marijuana,
but I would use it the same way that somebody
(15:23):
would have a glass of beer or two glasses of beer.
I'm not using it to get stoned.
Uh, I, I use it because, you know, I'm just
enjoying myself to relax, but not stoned. I'm totally functional. Uh,
I feel like I would have a hard time biblically
arguing with that. I could say you need to be cautious,
you need to make sure that you're not rationalizing, you
need to make sure of all that, but there's all
(15:46):
types of things like alcohol.
And, um, cocaine and so I wouldn't, I would never say,
oh OK, well, sniff a line every now and then, right? Uh,
because it's so highly addictive, but is there a place
for some of that as it relates to anesthetizing somebody
before you go into surgery? And I'd say, well, absolutely,
like if you're gonna get uh surgery, they use.
(16:08):
Uh, codeine and all that to help you to recover, uh,
and so it's just different. You have to know that OK,
if you're an addict, um, is this gonna be something
that that you're able to even think about? So, uh,
I think that's the way that I would talk about
any type of addictive property. Um, there's even discussions today,
(16:30):
which it's hard for me to even think about a
little bit, but people are talking about how limited amounts of.
Um, uh, uh, of mushrooms that that they're helping PTSD
patients that have, uh, come out of war and they're
finding help in that and I'm thinking, man, uh, that,
that seems like a can of worms right there, but
(16:50):
these are discussions. I'm glad you're asking the question that
we have to think through answers.
And our immediate temptation is just to think about maybe
the way, like for me, I'm thinking about sitting around
listening to Pink Floyd The Wall and frying on multiple
hits of LSD and taking Gravity Bong hits while I'm
smoking cigarettes and drinking a 12 pack of beer at
(17:11):
the same time.
That's not the way that we, we can't bring our
own experience into the moment we have to step back
and think about, OK, well, if science is getting to
a place where they're not getting somebody to go on
some hallucinogen where they're thinking that they're Tom Cruise for
the day.
But it's so light dosed that it does something in
(17:32):
the brain. Um, I'm not comfortable with that. Like, it's
not something I wanna do, but I have to really
think through before I say it's absolutely wrong. Phil Metzger. OK.
Uh, no, I love, I love that answer. There was
a lot of fun moments in that too, Bobby. Thank
you for that. That was really, that just, that brought
a lot of joy, but no, I mean, oh my gosh,
(17:53):
I'm just listening and thinking like that's such a good
answer and it's so easy to be like.
It's easy to have a defensive reaction, but I also
like that, you know, we've got to help people to
learn how to take the time to just pause and
think and reflect and see this biblically and so no,
I have nothing to add other than I think I'll be.
is, is, uh, amazing, and I thought that was a
great answer. Yeah, Tommy, you know, uh, what I would say, Katherine, um,
(18:17):
you know, just by listening to your question, uh, this
is on recreational use of marijuana and you you said
you mentioned that you, you know, you struggled and you
come from a life, you know, of addiction, um, and
how your recreational use, you know, little by little of,
of marijuana kind of led you into a full on.
(18:39):
You know, just uh back into using, um, whatever that was,
whatever it's, you know, alcohol or any other, you know,
drug or anything like that. And, you know, one of
the things that I, I would just, uh, just be,
be very careful because
You know, uh, you know, I think when we talk
about like the medicinal use of, of narcotics, you know,
(19:00):
whether it's like, you know, oxycodone or whatever, or even
marijuana in this case, you know, for cancer patients and everything, sometimes,
you know, for people, um, you know, like I myself, I,
you know, I was a I was a drug addict
for 15 years of my life, you know, just, uh,
getting to the point where I was sticking needles in
my arm and and shooting up and.
You know, led to just a, just a, uh, a
(19:22):
lot of heartache and, um, and I know like if
I were to, you know, just even, uh, you know,
drink a little bit, like for some people may have that,
that liberty or they, they don't have that vice of addiction.
You know, to where they can have a maybe a
glass of wine, you know, every now and then, and, um,
(19:42):
and that that'll be it like and for my, like
for my case, uh, Katherine, you know, having the same
kind of a sounds like a similar background with you
with addiction, like if I have a glass of wine,
if I choose to have a glass of wine.
I, it's like I already know it's like 6 months, yeah,
talk to me 6 months down the road it's gonna,
you know, it isn't gonna be a glass. It's, it's
(20:04):
gonna be a bottle you're gonna find me, you know,
I'll there in the street, you know, smoking cigarettes, hustling
dope or something like, hey, what happened? And it, well,
it all started with a glass of wine, you know, and.
And God would would God has sounds like he's he's
delivered you, he's saved you, he's he's, you know, you're,
you're seeking the Lord and we have these vices and
(20:24):
so just using wisdom when it comes to these types
of things, whether it's alcohol or even recreational use and
the invitation is like, come on, here have this little gummy,
it's not, it's not a big deal. Um, well, for
people like you, myself, and, you know, and, and Bobby
for that matter, those those are big deals, you know,
it's it's gonna, it's gonna ruin my life and um.
(20:45):
You know, it's like it's gonna take me all all
the way back, you know, to where, where I, you know,
where God had had brought me from and so, you know,
I think God is trying to show you something in this, like, hey, this,
this is not for you, you know, this is, you know,
this isn't for you, um.
And you know, so, and for anybody else that might
be listening that have, you know, background with addiction and
and all these things and and it's really easy, I
(21:07):
think especially in in many states and here in California
with the legalization of marijuana and all these dispensaries around it,
you know, it's just so easy to justify. Now it's like,
oh well.
It's it's legal now, you know, and I'm, it's not
against the law now, so I guess I'm, you know,
it's a little bit better, it's a little easier, and
then we kind of justify like, well, you know, God
(21:29):
created it, so why not, you know, and, and it's like, well,
you know, OK, well if that's the case, it's kind
of like, you know, we can say God created poison
ivy too, but we don't go rubbing that on our skin,
do we, you know.
Because we know that's harmful for us, you know, um, and, and,
and so yes, it's just really exercising wisdom in all
of these things and, and knowing what God's delivered you from.
(21:49):
And it is a battle. It's a, it's a, for,
for some, you know, it was a, it was a
daily battle for me, you know, for the first, you know,
couple of years, um, in my walk in my journey
with the Lord and, and, uh, you know, I'm just
glad that, you know, there's my, my family is there and,
and we've just made a commitment together. It's like, hey,
this is not something we're going to ever entertain and
(22:10):
Um, all by God's grace, you know, uh, just having to, to,
you know, be live with sobriety now for, for 25
years now, you know, this, this past June, June 11th
was 25 years of sobriety and 25 years of walking
with Jesus, and, and it's all by the grace of God,
but it's not an easy journey. It is, it is
a battle. Yeah, Katherine, what do you think?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
No, that was so good. Yeah, I really needed to
hear that, um, from a pastor's perspective, um, because in
my space, I have just thought, no for everybody. Um,
so that's good. I don't want to judge people unfairly.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Yeah. Bobby, any other thoughts? Yeah, well, that's, I mean,
and that's that's it's normal because when you've been wrecked
by addiction, it, it, it's easy for us to come
out swinging uh with black and white, um.
But I, I, I was, I mean, I've just realized like.
I've seen, I've just seen people drink my my wife
(23:10):
drinks in moderation, um, you know, now if I'm out
with her, there's certain things like I'm like I don't
wanna sit at a bar because that might make because people,
I don't want people to think, oh shoot, is Bobby
having a relapse right now? or uh she you know she, she,
she called me even like about a month ago like
and asked if I'd pick up a bottle of wine
for her. I said, honey, I'm, I'm, that's, I'm not
gonna do it's, I could totally do that if we
(23:32):
were out of town somewhere and you need a glass.
Bottle of wine I bring it home for you, but
people know that I'm a pastor in this area and
they also know that I had a relapse seven years ago, so, uh,
that could send mixed messages. Uh, early on as a Christian,
I would have thought everybody was wrong for drinking and
my wife didn't even start to drink until we'd already
(23:54):
been married for almost 15 years.
Uh, and it, it just, it doesn't bother me at all, uh,
because my kids drink in moderation. Uh, I think most
people can drink in moderation. I wish I could drink
in moderation because I would join, uh, the, the moderation club, uh,
but my experience seven years ago got me a seat
(24:15):
back in AA in no time.
Um, so I think it's just knowing where we are,
but there are people with addictions, and, and not everybody
with one addiction struggles with all addictions. I mean, there's
people that go to AAA, uh, and then they can,
you know, they might, they might be the person that
does recreational marijuana, go, you know what, it's not, it
(24:37):
doesn't send them down the rabbit hole that alcohol does.
But other people would say, oh yeah, man, that's, that,
that's gonna be a, a gateway for me.
So all I think what I would try to say
is know yourself and, and realize that, that we're different
and we have to realize that because my fear is,
for example, there's some Christians that will basically
(25:00):
There's some Christians that can drink in moderation, but they're
feeling guilty for having a glass of wine at dinner
because they're around other Christians that tell them that Christians
should ever drink and they're putting something on that person
that I don't think God's putting on them.
So, uh, for me, I know that what, what, what
(25:20):
it looks like when to start picking stuff up and, and,
and drinking is very dangerous. um, and so just being
mindful of where everybody's at and being tender toward everyone
else is, is, is really wise, but I do think
Tommy and Phil and and myself hopefully uh offered you
some perspective. Yeah, yeah, you know, and I do, I
(25:43):
do think that, you know, there's so many different, um.
You know, viewpoints when it comes to alcohol, especially within
the church and everything and and uh just like, like
with what what Bobby said, you know, it's like we
all
You know, we have our own personal convictions and I
think that's what's important is like what is the Lord
leading you, you know, to this is your journey with
the Lord, this is your walk and, and you know
(26:04):
and and those personal convictions they can be very heavy
for you and, and right, you know, and, and good
to where it, you know, just uh you really sense
this is the leading of the Lord um in my life, um,
but it can be very something very.
Easy to where we begin to impose these kinds of
convictions on other people, you know, um, and, and so
(26:26):
we do have to be, be very careful with that,
you know, so I would just encourage to for all,
everyone listening believers like, man, you know, just really, you know,
seek the Lord and if there's a, if there's a
conviction there where the Lord's like, hey, you know what,
now you're you're better without this, well then I would
say listen to the Lord and if you don't sense that,
well then, you know, hey, that's the, you know, the
leading of the Lord in that.
(26:47):
So, probably every answer we just gave to Catherine would
apply to Sam, who sent this in through Kwave.com, but
let me read it, see if you guys want to
add anything.
Uh, Sam says after 25 years of sobriety, I found
myself face first in the ground. I started using drugs
again and lost my son by the courts, almost lost
(27:08):
my wife, and have regained 2 years of sobriety this year.
My question is, I've messed my life up for so
many years. I owe back child support. I haven't filed
taxes in 4 years. I have no money to pay
a CPA, no money to pay.
Child support and still live. I have constant anxiety that
I'm going to be thrown in prison, and as much
(27:28):
as I seek guidance from God, I only receive silence.
How do I get this constant anxiety out of my
life and stomach? Are there resources to help someone like me?
I've messed up my life so much, it seems like
it's not fixable anymore. I'm beyond depressed and fearful of
the ability to survive my current family with my current situations. Bobby,
what do you say to Sam?
(27:50):
Jeez, you know.
Let me think about Sam's statement a little bit and throw,
throw it over to Phil if you don't mind because I, uh, uh, uh, uh, I,
there is a such a tender pastor's heart, but there,
there's some thoughts out, but I'd love to hear what
Phil had to say on that. OK, Phil.
Yeah, I mean, I know, and I know our time
(28:11):
is a bit brief at the moment, so obviously, Brian,
just tell me when I'm done if I can't hear it. Um,
just start with like you've got about, uh, you can, yeah,
about a minute to 90 seconds just so you know.
All right, I can, I can always blab for that.
But honestly, like, yeah, as a pastor, I'm just thinking like, dude,
that is heartbreaking first of all, and I guarantee you, Sam,
there's other people that have these kinds of situations and
(28:32):
One form or another, so you're not alone. In terms
of resources, I really want to point you to going,
connecting in with a local church and letting them help
you with those resources. If you can't find the local
church that has it, go to a mega church in
your area. Whether you agree with the mega church or not,
they're probably gonna have, um, information on good resources. Um,
that's that's been my experience. Look for those resources that
(28:54):
are local, um.
I think what we care about, like what, what burdens
us so much is that like, did you hit rock
bottom and then you're feeling like I'm still a rock
bottom because I'm not hearing from God. God isn't meeting me.
Let me suggest to you, God is present. He is present.
You may not be feeling anything, and it's possible that
you're trying to revert to a
Experiences you've had with God when you were brand new
(29:15):
or like 25, 30 years ago, that's not your situation anymore.
And so we need to like trust the Lord and
have faith in him even in the moment that you're
currently in them. God has not abandoned you, bro. I
promise you that. I promise you that. Yeah.
Tommy, 2 seconds yeah, that's a good word and Sam,
I would say, man, if you've asked God to forgive you,
you know, in this process, you are forgiven and you
(29:38):
know that's the, that's the goodness of God, you know, and,
and just rest in the forgiveness of the Lord and
and allow him to restore you, yeah.
All right, we'll see what Bobby wants to tell Sam
when we come back here on Pastor's Perspective, and we'll
see what you want to tell Bobby. It's his last
day with us today on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is our number.
(29:58):
We will be back in just a few minutes here
on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173.
This program is pre-recorded.
(30:20):
We're back on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is the number to call.
I'm Brian Perez in the studio with Tommy Coda, the
pastor of Hope Alive Church in Santa Ana. We're also
joined by Phil Metzger, the pastor of Calvary San Diego.
He's joining us online and.
and apologist, Doctor Bobby Conway, the pastor of Image Church
in Charlotte, North Carolina, whom you see on the YouTube
(30:43):
channel called The Graphite Apologist. If you haven't already liked
and subscribed that YouTube channel, do it now. The Graphite Apologist,
so that you can keep connected with Bobby.
After he leaves us from Pastor's perspective, which today is
his last day, and we're gonna miss him, and so
will Patsy and San Marcos, who's watching us on YouTube
(31:05):
right now. Hey, Patsy.
Oh, of course. And I have been with pastor's perspective
for many, many years. I've watched the changing of the guards,
and I never saw a guard that I did not
think was a blessing from God. And yes, Bobby, um,
(31:31):
you know,
I'm not ready to say I'm an old lady, but
I'm surely an old girl. And I think what you
are doing is wonderful. To connect art with Bible is,
and I have a dog crawling on me. She's 100 pounds.
(31:54):
Oh wow.
Oh no, oh, and she, she, uh, pulls my computer.
Oh no, that would not be good because it says
here that you're watching us on YouTube, but yeah, Patsy, uh, Bobby,
how he's connected the church with art and how he
(32:14):
continues to do that. Tell us a little bit a
little bit about the graphite topologist, what your, uh, mission
is with that, your vision. Yeah, so that's been a
lot of fun for those watching. I just finished up.
This piece nice did my wife this past week my
Barbie doll, but uh yeah I'm doing amazing bro, yeah, yeah,
(32:36):
I'm doing uh I'm doing.
Videos called on the graphite Apologist where I take my
drawings that take like 20 hours and then there's 62nd
shorts that are shown and I'm answering apologetic questions through
art and so I'm drawing CS Lewis, you know, Francis Schaeffer,
(33:00):
and I've got all kinds of pieces that I'm uh
working on.
Uh, there's a part of me that wants to slow
it down though, because I'm putting out pieces and it
takes a long time to bring out what I really
love to do is the hyperrealism. But we're putting out
2 to 3 videos per week and people can check
out the graphite Apologist, and then I just launched Ponder,
(33:24):
and they can even see that at, um, the graphite
Apologist on YouTube. If they'll subscribe, that would mean a lot.
That's how they can keep in touch with me. Uh,
I'll be.
I'll be doing, um, I'll be doing lots of lives, uh,
that are gonna be starting up so that, that if
you wanna continue to follow my ministry, subscribe to my
(33:46):
YouTube channel, and then my arts coming out on t-shirts, um, um,
I've seen that.
broke in prints. I'll have special edition prints, uh, as well.
And so it's called ponder because I want, you know,
to create art worth thinking about, uh, that gives us
conversation points to have. So yeah, that's what I'm doing
(34:09):
and really looking forward to it. You gotta send uh
Tommy a new baseball cap so that we can take
the LA Dodgers, man. Hey, these, these are pretty cool, man,
some cool merch.
Yeah, thanks man. I appreciate that gives you something to
ponder on for sure. Yeah, some of them are, some
of them are canvases, um, but that's Soren Kierkegaard that
(34:31):
you see right there. He talked about the existential leap
of faith, and so, yeah, you just see it all
kind of come together while I'm explaining. So all the
t-shirts then have videos that explain them and so that
it's just kind of an exciting way to to do what.
You know, a lot of people don't care about apologetics,
(34:53):
but they will get into it through art. But then
my t-shirts, they don't say anything, uh, so even if
people aren't Christians, they could start buying them and they
might not realize how much detail I've built into the
point of the shirt. Yeah.
Do you like on each of the shirt, do you
have a, I don't know, like a QR code or
(35:15):
something that would take people to the page on your
YouTube channel that explains what the video is all about? No,
that's a good question. Um, I should, and now that
you're asking that, uh, you know, I'm just trying to
figure it out. I didn't even know I could draw
until a year and a half ago, uh, and so I,
I don't know how to start a t-shirt company, and
(35:36):
I'm doing that.
Um, and I'm terrible with technology and I'm trying to
put these videos, uh, out there, so I, I really
have no idea what I'm doing. I'm just showing up
and hoping that the Lord will bless it. Uh, this
has been more of the comfort zone answering questions and, but, uh,
as I've said, I've never had a gift come so
(35:58):
quickly as in my life is art, uh, and I'm
really thankful for that.
Yeah, and speaking of gifts, uh, if people wanted to
support your ministry both at your at your church there
and and through everything that you're doing online, how could
they do that? Well, that would be huge, you know, uh,
if anybody, you know, would be open to being uh
(36:19):
uh a monthly supporter, they would go to ChristianityStill makes sense.com.
Uh, that was a site that, you know, I was
doing a lot of stuff with. I'll be changing all
the names up, but if they go to ChristianityStill makes sense.com,
there's a donate button.
And people could give a one time offering, uh, or
(36:40):
monthly support, but yes, in this new adventure while I'm
trying to start a bunch of things, uh, you know,
it's kind of like there's there's no income yet. And so, uh,
people that might believe in my ministry and want to
get behind what I'm doing trying to use art to
help people to defend the faith, um, if they wouldn't
mind going to, uh, ChristianityStill makesense.com, click the donate button.
(37:04):
And um we're also gonna be launching a new email
subscriber list next week and so I'll be really keeping
in touch with our donors, sending new products, um, giving
opportunities for first editions, uh, and all that kind of
stuff so the relationship with me can go on, um,
and that's what they could do. That's awesome. Christianity still
(37:27):
makes sense.com. Catherine in San Diego listening on the Kwave app. Hello.
Hi. Um,
I, I couldn't hear you. Oh, go ahead. What is
your question for us today? My, my question is, um,
But the um why.
(37:49):
Why am I leaving?
Well, I feel like at this stage, uh, well, there's
a couple of things. I know that Kawa, for example,
is very excited about, um, you know, my endeavor. They
are behind me on planting a church and, you know, thankfully,
even promoting what I'm doing.
So this is nothing weird that has went on with
(38:12):
K wave in the least. Uh, about a year and
a half ago, uh, I even sensed that, you know,
some direction change could be taking place where, uh, that
would come down the road. Uh, I'm not live in studio.
I'm on the east coast and so I know.
That they've built up a relationship with a lot of
local people and would love to be able to even
(38:35):
have somebody in studio at some point, but I don't
know a lot of the, you know, the future direction
with Kwave, uh, what it's gonna be, but I know
they're going to keep that radio show going and Brian
and I are super tight. I mean, he's literally like
a hero, a mentor. Uh, we have never had one.
(38:57):
South moment. He's been so gracious with my lead time
on this show, so I'm, I, I have nothing but
positive things to say. In fact, I'm gonna be jumping
on the show after a season if they ever want
me to come back on as a guest. So all
that to say.
I just had a pastor, for example, leave the church
(39:17):
and I, I, I made the announcement and I'm always
worried when I do that, that people think, oh, something
went wrong. Nothing went wrong. Uh, it's just Pastor Brian
resigned from being the lead guy.
Of Calvary and uh you know I think that they're
gonna look at some point maybe at getting somebody that's
more local but I don't even know for sure if
(39:37):
that's set in stone. Uh, if it is, uh, that's
what it is but I'm so thankful for the opportunity
I have to be here and I also think for me, uh,
God's given me this new artistic gift and I'm gonna
go and try and pursue that.
Here's you could still hear Bobby on the weekends here
on Kwave. His program called Christianity Still Makes Sense is
(39:57):
on Saturday nights at 6:30. Also Sunday afternoons at, oh goodness,
I forget, 3 o'clock I think or 2:30 somewhere, somewhere,
I think it's 2:30. I can look on Kwave.com on
the programs page. Katherine, thank you for your phone call.
Jerry and Anaheim, what did you want to ask, Bobby?
Uh, yes, I've heard, well, again, I'm sad that Bobby's
(40:20):
leaving too, um, but, um, you know, God takes different adventures. Um,
I've heard Bobby talk about, um, post being post-trip, um,
or
Possibly being post-trip. I'm just curious, um, what led you
to that cause I have a friend who's like staunch
post-trip and, and he mentioned something about dispensational lists and that,
(40:45):
how that kind of throws off, uh, you know, like
there's a debate between, um, pre and post because of it.
OK, Bobby, well, I'm gonna be very brief so my
teammates don't have to listen to me, uh, talk here.
This is your last day, bro. Go for it, man. Well, uh,
(41:06):
you know, I, I get, but we're still a team
and I, I wanna hear from you guys as well.
There's 3 of us, so.
Uh, I would just say, uh, uh, I guess I'm,
I'm just confused about the timing of it all, and, uh,
it was presented as this is the only way, this
is when it's gonna happen, and then I just started
reading the other views and going wow, it's not as
(41:28):
clear as I was taught.
And for me it's just about being faithful to my
listeners to say there's different viewpoints out there and I'm
a confusionist on it. I lean post rib, but I've said,
I would hate to guarantee people a pre-trib option and
(41:49):
then be the pastor left of the congregation trying to
lead them through a tribulation. I'll have a lot of
tribulation in my church because people will be like, You
told me we're gonna be out of here and we're
in the middle of this thing.
And so it, you know, maybe it's just a secure
way of saying, hey, if I find myself going through
the tribulation, the church will stick with me because I
let them know that it's possible that we'll be around
(42:10):
in the middle of it, yeah, Phil.
So much good stuff in there. A confusionist. That's gonna
be new. Yeah, that's gonna be the new one, bro.
I love that. And um that's his next t-shirt. Yeah,
that's exactly. I'm just waiting. I was like literally looking
at your pond merch and I was thinking that's gonna
be a dope shirt, a pre-trib, post-trib, and then the confusionists, yeah.
(42:32):
But I, I, I, I honestly do agree with you,
you know, I think we both kind of came from
the background of like, pretty, you know, feeling pretty kind
of almost like overconfident in a, in a, in a
theological perspective.
And then you realize, my goodness, as you really get
into this and as you study, and if you take
time to consider other perspectives, you realize these are not
foolish perspectives. These are not foolish ideas. There's, there is,
(42:54):
and I think I might adopt that term confusionist. I
think I, I like that a lot because, um, I, and,
and almost the idea that like, let's just, let's just
be honest, like,
You know, I have a perspective, but I'm comfortable with
some of the other perspectives in the sense that like,
I want to have a humility that says, hey, I,
I just want to prepare people to meet Jesus. And
(43:15):
the timing of that is, um, you know, maybe it
is a little bit difficult to be dogmatic in some ways. Um,
I may lean more in a pre-tribulation, uh,
perspective, but I have such high respect and and value
a post-tribulationalist perspective and other perspectives. And so I, I'm
totally in agree with these are not issues. Friends listening
(43:36):
to this, watching this. These are not issues that should
divide us. These are things that should make us be
able to have a good, healthy, fun conversation that ends
with us laughing together and really sell.
Celebrating that we all love Jesus and that's really what
it comes down to for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's
that's kind of what I was going to share is like,
you know, these are um the different uh eschatological views
(43:59):
and positions that people have. Sometimes, you know, people can
get so dogmatic and so dig their heels in on
these issues and, and not.
And not be willing to reason and not be willing
to like listen, because this isn't something, you know, um,
that should be dividing, you know, Jesus people, you know,
people who love Jesus because there's so many, there's different
(44:21):
positions and different uh ideas and views in all of this,
and it is unfortunate that at times um this can
be a divisive tool, um, that, that the devil would
actually use, you know, to bring division amongst people, and
these aren't, this isn't one of them.
You know, let's just keep our focus on Jesus, you know, um, yeah,
(44:41):
because at the end of the day, you know, when
you listen to all the different, uh, positions and everything, uh, it,
you can end up confused and take the position of
a Confucius, so.
Yeah, I mean, the big thing I would say is
I have found that typically your most dogmatic people uh
(45:03):
on issues that are really black and white are people
that have listened to the choir preach to them like
they have not been exposed to other views. They've only
been studied in their own camp. They have a select
number of authors that they're comfortable with.
And I just, uh, I'm just not wired that way. I, I,
(45:26):
I look at different things. I think about different things.
I don't try to put everybody in a box and, uh,
I believe that Jesus died on the cross, rose from
the grave physically, and is bodily gonna return again, and
I have my faith and trust in him.
And there's a lot of different discussions that we can
have as believers, but the rigidity, uh, I was more
(45:49):
rigid as an early believer in my ignorance than I
am now with two doctorates. I, I feel I, I, I,
I feel more ignorant now on, on, on things. It's,
and I've, and, and part of that ignorance that I
feel is I've studied a lot of different views and
so when I hear people talk in sharp dogmatism.
Uh, uh, it's usually they might sound strong, but they're,
(46:13):
they're often very narrowly educated in a certain lane, and
if they were to debate somebody that's, that's broadly trained, uh,
they would probably really get taken to the laundromat quickly
for sure. All right, let's go to Mon and Jerry,
thank you for calling in. Let's go to Monrovia now. Hi,
(46:36):
who's this?
Oh, is this me? Yeah, you.
Oh, I'm Andrea, and uh I was wondering uh if
it's possible for me instead of asking a question, I
just wanted to say how it's um how
Moved Ian from Bobby's Pastor Bobby's testimony yesterday and today
(46:58):
where he talked about all of the different things that
he did in the past. I found that way more
motivating than when pastors say that they've never drank before,
they've never done this or that. It was just really
refreshing to have someone share the things that they have done.
And, uh, how the Lord has changed them. And so
(47:20):
I just wanted to say I'm really going to miss
Pastor Bobby because I always looked forward to your answers
to all of the questions. And now I'm not going
to have a chance to ask all the other questions
that I had for you as well, but I have
called in and you have answered some of my questions,
and I just wanted to say I was really grateful.
(47:40):
Thank you so much. It's very kind of you to
say and
Again, to everybody listening, um, you know, you guys are,
you guys have been an amazing audience. I've loved my
relationship with you. I'm gonna miss you guys very much and, um,
let's keep the conversation going, uh, by subscribing to the
graphite apologists and you can, uh, even ask me your
(48:01):
questions on live. I might even be doing, um, you know,
uh if I get it.
You know, enough of you guys over there, we can
always look at doing 30 minute live shows or something
once a week, and you can just ask me things
on a graphite apologist as well. So I'm happy to serve. Uh,
it's just gonna be in a different venue. And please
don't do it at this time slot because you'll steal
(48:21):
all the listeners away and it's just like, come on, man.
I would never want to do that. And, uh, that's
for sure. I'm joking, man. Elizabeth and Chino listening on
Facebook or watching on Facebook. Hi Elizabeth, welcome.
Hi, hi, good afternoon. Good afternoon. parroting what thank you. Um,
it is, uh, I'm just was listening, chimed in like
(48:44):
at 3:20 because I'm preparing for tomorrow in the kitchen
here and I heard the
you know, you guys announced that again, Bobby Conway is off,
the good doctor's off onto other endeavors. And yeah, I
just have enjoyed the show and all of you and
Bobby and, um, congratulations on everything and wow, I was,
(49:06):
I was shocked. I'm surprised that you're leaving, but it happens. And, um.
I'm really excited and happy for you and your family
and everything that you're going forward with.
Thank you so much, boy, I feel like I'm starting
to get emotional in my soul right now and uh.
Hopefully I won't break down and start crying on you guys. Um, this,
(49:29):
this really has been such an amazing time. I just
thankful for you guys and thankful to the team and, uh,
thankful for allowing me to show up in all of
my brokenness and God had, um, Brian Broderson isn't here
but God really used him to restore my soul in
(49:50):
ministry and his belief in God's hand on me.
Oh man, uh, just the, the words of gratitude I
have for, for Brian Broderson. OK, let's turn this into
a roast that way Bobby doesn't get emotional. So Metzger,
if you want to start roasting Bobby, then you know. OK,
I'll start. Bobby, what is this two doctorates thing that
(50:12):
you just mentioned? I want to hear. I want to know.
People want to know what's going on, what's happening? Talk
to me.
You, you, what do you mean like how I got
them or why I got them? Yeah, you said you
have to listen, it took me my whole life to
get one, and now you have two. What is happening, dude.
Well, it's called being an addict that got sober and
(50:34):
threw his addiction into study.
And so, um, you know, a lot of my education, um,
I was a guy that couldn't pass the test to
get in the military. I failed the ASVAB 3 times.
I had to pay somebody to type my papers in
Bible College. When I met Heather, I sat outside Chili's
and I wouldn't go in because I didn't think I
(50:55):
could learn the menu. That's how uneducated I was. I
was the senior sitting in class with sophomores, and I
was a dumb butt basically.
But I fell in love with Jesus and I felt
like the way to know him more is I had
to learn to read and you know I bought a
little pocket dictionary and I started studying adjectives because I
(51:16):
felt like I didn't have a vocabulary to describe my
love for God and I started learning adjectives so that
I could increase my vocabulary to give him my thanks
and my praise, and I just started learning and studying
and so so much of my studies was rooted in
my own insecurities of what I didn't know.
And then somewhere along the line while I was at
Dallas Seminary, I started feeling like, wow, I actually love
(51:40):
academics and maybe could have done more of this, uh,
but it just wasn't shaped that way from early childhood.
Uh, but God got a hold of me and gave
me this, and that's what happened. I don't think I've
ever heard that adjective story before. That's awesome. Yeah, that,
that's a good story. And, um, listen, you can go
off the show, but you and I and Brian still
got a date at that restaurant that we've been talking
(52:02):
about forever. Bro, I would love to do that. That
would be amazing.
Yeah man, that, that is so cool, Bobby, you know,
and just to hear how how the Lord captured your,
your life, man, and your heart and, um, you know,
there's a lot of just coming from a backgrounds very similar,
you know, uh, both of us with addiction and everything and,
and one of the things I really just want to
(52:23):
say if I can appreciate, you know, just kind of
add to what the callers are saying here, Bobby is like, man,
you've um.
You know, I, I, there's a little acronym I say
at church, KIR man, you, you keep it real, bro,
you know, and, um, you're, you're open and transparent with
a lot of things and, and I know that that
ministers to a lot of people, ministers to me when
I'm listening in the car or something like that and
(52:44):
I got my earphones in and.
Uh, I was like, man, that's, that is so cool
because it does, it just kind of gives people like, man,
you know, I can, um, I can pursue this. If
like if, if God did it for Bobby, Bobby, he
could do it for me too, you know, and, uh,
so that that's a, that's a good thing, man. It's
really appreciate you and all the wisdom and all that stuff, man.
Let's let's keep pressing and pushing forward for Jesus.
(53:05):
Thank you so much, bro. Praise God.
So I have some statistics here. Bobby started in January 2019.
It is now the middle of 2025, so 6.5 years.
And in that 6.5 years, we were not able to
convert him to pre-trib. So, um, I, I think that's
that's something Pastor Brian looks at that he looks at
(53:26):
as as a failure on his part, yes.
Hey, I'm open. We, we just discussed that right now, right?
That's what I mean. I really do. I don't, I mean,
post tribulation sounds miserable. I'm the guy that, I mean, look,
I would, I said I'd be a horrible missionary, and I,
I like, I like the I like comfortable things in life. I, I, I,
(53:48):
I don't like mosquitoes in the South here. I don't
like humidity. Yeah, I mean, I, there's, I'm a pretty
jacked up dude, and, uh, I hope that you guys
are right on pre-trip because that sounds a lot more comfortable.
Yes, and, and, uh, not liking all those bugs and
everything in the South. Yeah, that's probably one of the
reasons why you thought Satan was, uh, having you plant
(54:09):
a church in North Carolina until Pastor Brian said, no, Bobby,
Satan doesn't tell people to plant churches. Yes, we survived
COVID together.
Uh, Tug of War Tuesdays with Tony Clark. Those were
always awesome, man, man. And all these are probably archived
on Facebook and YouTube, so you can go back 6.5
(54:31):
years where wasn't it Pastor Tony Clark that also coined
the coined, uh, the good doctor, the good doctor and
doctor Doctor, yes, yes.
Yeah, so, yeah, I know, right, good memories spoil me
rotten all these years. Thank you so much. So keep
on listening to Bobby on Christianity. Still makes sense here
on Kwave Saturdays at 6:30 p.m. and also Sundays at,
(54:54):
you know what, I should have looked it up online
really quick before I said anything, but it's on Sundays. Uh,
Tommy's on Sundays as well, and Saturdays, but Tommy, uh,
Bobby's Sunday slot is.
Uh, 3. I'm looking at the wrong, ah, it's either
2 or 3. It's somewhere around there. Why can't I
keep listening and you'll just listen 24 hours and you will,
you will hear Bobby eventually. There he is, 3 p.m.
(55:16):
on Sundays and support his ministry Christianitytill makes sense.com. Subscribe
to his YouTube channel, The Graphite Apologist, and, uh, his
newsletter on ChristianityStill makes sense.com.
Blessings to you, Bobby. Love you, man. Love you, Bobby.
God bless you, man. I was happy to be here
with you on this last day. An honor for sure,
(55:39):
forever grateful. All right guys, God bless you. We'll see
you at church on Sunday. No program tomorrow, Friday, July 4th,
and then we'll be back in the studio on Monday.
So for Tommy Coda and Phil Metzger and Bobby Conway,
I'm Brian Perez. Thanks for listening and watching Pastor's Perspective.
This program is pre-recorded.
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez.
We are here till 4 o'clock today to talk to
you about whatever questions you might have about the Bible,
(00:29):
the Christian faith, just about anything that's on your mind, prophecy.
Uh, the book of Revelation, the Gospels, the epistles, anywhere
in between. We can talk about it all today here
on Pastor's Perspective, and the number to call is 888-564-6173.
We will not be live tomorrow, so if you have
a question for us, better call in today, otherwise you're
(00:52):
gonna have to wait until Monday. You don't want to
go through like a 4 day weekend or a three
day weekend with, uh, these questions. That's right, yeah. You
don't want these questions lingering in your
through the weekend. So call in today at 888-564-6173. And
answering your questions today, we've got Tommy Koda. He's here
in the studio with me. He's the senior pastor of
(01:14):
Hope Alive Christian Hope Alive Church. Hope Alive. Well, it
is a Christian church. Yes, yes, yes. Go get, gotta
make that clear. Hope Alive Church in Santa Ana. And
joining us online, we've got Phil Metzger, the pastor of
Calvary San Diego, which is also a Christian church. Hi there, Phil.
How are you?
Phil was there. Phil was there. Now Bobby's here. OK,
(01:35):
so yeah, I was gonna wait till, uh, till till
the end to introduce Bobby, but yeah, so Bobby is here.
Bobby Conway, pastor of Images Church in, uh, Charlotte, North Carolina. Phil,
I don't know, maybe the rapture took place. Could that
be man only in San Diego. On the, only in yes,
it's a little man. It's making its way up. We're next, yes.
(01:56):
All right. So, uh, might, might have Phil on the phone.
Maybe that's how we're gonna have Phil today. I don't know.
We'll see. But anyway, we're here to answer the questions
you've guys got at 888-564-6173. You can also send in
your questions through the Pastor's Perspective Facebook Messenger or by
DMing us on the Pastor's Perspective Instagram, or you can
(02:17):
go to Kwave.com, look for the Pastor's perspective.
Page and you can fill out the form there. That
gets your question here to us and then we can
answer it here on the radio, but the best way
to get an answer is to call us. So do
so right now, grab an open line at 888-564-6173. Here's
one of those questions that was sent in online. This
is from Deirdre in Salinas, California. She sent this on Facebook.
(02:42):
Is Jesus still considered a human?
And will we be known as human when we're in heaven? Also,
why do you suppose Jesus chose John to take care
of his mother? Didn't he have sisters and brothers to
do this? Bobby, what do you say to Deirdre?
Well, I just think that in that type of society,
more of a, a patriarchal and not a toxic masculine style,
(03:07):
Uh, it was the responsibility of the man who was
seen as the leader of a home to take responsibility
and so you can see that it doesn't imply that
nobody else was to make sure that her needs were
cared for, uh, but it's also hard for us to
know all that was entailed in that statement.
(03:28):
I can imagine a conversation before Jesus went to the
cross where he pulled John off to the side and said, Hey,
my wife, my mom's about to really go through it
and she's gonna really be hurting and she's gonna have
these types of needs. And then he reminds him of
that from the cross. So that's about all I could
say for that without adding any more detail that I
(03:50):
might feel like I'm getting into speculative ground, Tommy.
Yeah, no, that's a, that's a very good and interesting question, um,
you know, and perhaps it was maybe Jesus even thinking that,
you know, um,
His, his, you know, because the, the question also said
that he had brothers and sisters and so perhaps maybe
it was his brothers and sisters wasn't, they weren't really
(04:13):
following him at the time, you know, and so, and
John was a disciple and a follower and so kind
of leaning into what what Bobby had said too is like,
hey man, leader, leader the way that I've been teaching
you and love her, you know, and and and those
things so.
You know, he didn't, I don't think he said, he said,
behold this, like this is your mother now. It's like, hey, um,
(04:36):
is that how I don't remember exactly how Jesus said it,
but um look that up. I think that's the end
of there. Could it be that the other brothers were irresponsible,
maybe playing video games in the basement all day and
you know, they didn't couldn't keep a job. I don't know, maybe, yeah,
but again, it's just speculation on, you know, what Bobby said.
Yeah, yeah, take for example James. So James, the half
(04:59):
brother of Jesus, he would eventually believe, right? Uh, die
a martyr's death, right, the book of James, uh, but
John was very close to Jesus, uh, and you know
that Jesus, uh, siblings were criticizing him, thinking that he'd
lost his mind at times. And so I do think
that that's, you know, a good answer that you're giving.
(05:21):
Right there because uh they didn't seem like they're all
over the place. So and again thinking about the spiritual life, it,
you know, there's something even deeper of spiritual connection as
Christians that transcend even the physical bonds that that we
can have when we realize what all that entails. So
(05:42):
there have been people that, for example, they're they're at
odds with their family once they become a believer.
Uh, and they find a new family in the church.
And so it is possible that some of that's there,
but again, we're a little bit on speculative ground. Did
we cover Deirdre's other question? Oh, about Jesus being, is
(06:02):
he still considered human and will we be considered human
when we're in heaven?
Bobby.
Yes, uh, so Jesus, when he took on his human nature,
obviously when the resurrection happened, uh, he rose with a
physical glorified body, and he's the first fruits of the resurrection,
(06:26):
and we too will have glorified bodies someday. Uh, but
that's pretty powerful. I mean, you think about God becoming flesh.
And you know I'm thinking if I was God and
I was already going on this rescue mission, I think
I'd want to shed that humanity afterwards, uh, but he
(06:46):
preserves that throughout all eternity. He, he took on a
part of.
Us throughout all eternity and we'll always uh remember that
and even the scars uh that people will get to
see that are believers reminiscent. I mean if if we
(07:06):
really digest that, I mean, think about having a moment
where maybe Jesus comes up and the technology is already
there and he comes up on.
On a big screen and there's just millions and millions
of people and he, and he's speaking and you're looking
at these scars that took place 2000 years ago or
(07:27):
whatever time it'll be at that point.
We'll just weep thinking wow and then to picture him going,
and you still retain that human body, which is amazing
and yet he gets a glorified body and he gives
that to us too when we believe so it's pretty beautiful. Yeah,
I'm I'm reminded of when after Jesus.
(07:48):
Uh, was crucified and, and he appeared to, uh, all
the disciples and he appeared to Thomas. He, he gets
there and, and he tells Thomas to touch, to touch
his wounds, you know, they're still there and, um, so yeah,
just having that those, those wounds remind us of the
price that was paid for our sin.
That's good. Yep. And look, Phil Metzger has joined us.
(08:10):
Phil from Calvary San Diego, at least on the phone,
maybe on video. I don't know. Hi there, Phil.
Hey guys, I'm on the phone, but I guess they
still got me on the video through Zoom. Oh, I
see how it works. Cool. Yeah, because you were there,
but then you just disappeared. Yeah, and I think Bobby
just disappeared and Bobby so the rapture just place in
North Carolina now. Yeah, yeah, he's back. OK. All right.
(08:33):
So we see Phil and but we're hearing him on
the phone, but it all, it all makes sense now.
Thank you, uh, Phil. Did you want to chime in
on these questions? Did, did you get a chance to hear?
What was that I have not heard anything since the
show started. There's been no sound on my end. OK, so, uh,
let's start all over. Do we have the music? Let's
just start the music all over again. No, I'm joking. Um,
(08:53):
so the question was a hot mess, Brian.
That's what we do best here. Uh, Deirdre sent this in.
Why do you suppose Jesus chose John to take care
of his mom if he had other brothers and sisters?
And then is Jesus still considered human and will we
be known as human when we're in heaven?
Wow, there's a few questions right there. Well, listen, what
(09:16):
whatever Tommy and Bobby said, I totally agree with it 100% correct,
and I know, uh, that's faith, that's faith right there. Yeah,
because Tommy was saying that you're gonna be God when
you get to heaven and so you're a heretic as well.
Oh man, Tommy that's a different radio station, bro.
Golly, I thought, I thought I could have more faith
(09:38):
in you there, Tommy, my goodness. Don't listen, don't listen
to Bobby. You can never trust somebody who was part
of a gang, bro. I'm just telling you, man. I've
been redeemed. I've been redeemed by the blood of Jesus. Wait, wait, he,
I don't think he's talking about that gang.
I think he's talking about the Dodgers gang that you're
there you go. Yeah, yeah, Clayton Kershaw 3000 strikeouts, yeah, celebrate.
(10:01):
Although yesterday's game was against the Chicago White Sox, so
does that count? It does. They all count. Why? I
don't think it should. I could strike out the White Sox. OK,
maybe not. Hey, I want to see that, Bobby. Um, hey, to, to,
to speak to that, I, I, I didn't hear what
anybody said. So if I'm repeating, please just make me stop, um.
I wonder if just because at that point there were
(10:22):
still siblings who hadn't put their faith in Jesus as Messiah, and,
and uh connecting, is this what you guys talked about
like probably John would serve as a as a great
kind of, you know, person to take care of Jesus'
mom who also believed that he was who he.
As he was and, you know, I'm sure that changed
and shifted. It doesn't seem like he, you know, that
(10:43):
was like his role the rest of her life or
his life, but just maybe for that kind of season.
So if that's what Tommy said, then he did a
good job. If he said something else, then, you know, we'll,
we'll question it. OK, I was, I might have been close.
90%. I was assuming I was right, Tommy, which is
absolutely not a good idea.
(11:07):
All right, very good. Deirdre, thank you for sending in
your question online, and now we're gonna go to the
phones at 888-564-6173. We're gonna start with Catherine, who's got
something important to say that, uh, I was gonna say
in a few minutes anyway, but, uh, go ahead, Katherine.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Hi, guys. Um, I just want to, well, call and
say number one, I love your guys' show. I've been
listening for years. And I was listening yesterday and I
heard Doctor Bobby Conway say he's, this is his last day.
So that made me sad.
But also, hearing your testimony for the very first time
inspired me to call in and ask a question. I've
(11:48):
been waiting for someone else to ask, um, but I
haven't heard it asked yet. Probably have, but I haven't
heard it. OK. Um, I'm a believer who has struggled
with addiction, uh, my whole life. Um, and I am
a believer who's in ministry, who's in service, and I
had a lot of sober time. And, um, I've recently
had a relapse.
(12:09):
Um, which was devastating for me and it's, it's been
difficult to get back on track, um, but I am
on track. I'm sober, and, um.
There's one question that has come up in a lot
of Christian circles, um, and not just in the world,
but that in the subject is on marijuana.
(12:30):
Um, my relapse began with marijuana. I was thinking that
it was medicinal, but for me, it's, it's not. Um,
and it was quickly recreationally, recreational. And then I started
having conversations with different people in the church about what
they thought about it. And there's a lot of, um,
(12:51):
There's a lot of separation there in regards to what,
no one can find it in the Bible, right? So
I've done a lot of research, and I have come
to the conclusion, the Holy Spirit has placed on my
heart that it is sorcery. Um, and that I can't
get a lot of people to agree with. So I'd
love to hear, um, what your opinion is on cannabis, um,
(13:13):
and the recreational use of it.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
All right, Bobby.
Well, thanks for calling. I, I, I would say one
thing just as a caution, I would be careful, uh, to,
to say the Holy Spirit's put that on your heart
is sorcery because if that really is true, then that
automatically would indict everybody that would use it for any reason.
(13:39):
Uh, so that's something we always want to be careful
in that, uh, just as a, uh, a friendly reminder. Uh,
the way that I look at that, um, personally is
the way that I would look at alcohol or anything
else when it comes to talking about, uh, the use
of some of this stuff like, uh, is it, is
(14:01):
it OK to recreationally get stoned? Uh, well, of course not,
just as it's not OK to recreationally get drunk.
Uh, but I think that the stigma that is so
there is, is something that you fast forward 50 years
from now, it's not gonna be the same stigma that
it is today.
(14:22):
Um, I think that the thing is, is there's moderation
principles that people have to apply and so somebody like there's,
there's people that, that use it for sleep. There's cancer
patients that use it medicinally for, uh, for keeping their
food down. The problem is, is if somebody gets into
(14:42):
using it even.
Medicinally or recreationally on the daily, then what's gonna happen
is their tolerance for it's going to start to skyrocket
and it's going to create a lot of problems in
that way. But if somebody was to come to me
and say, hey, I have cancer and I can't keep
(15:03):
my food down, uh, do you think it's bad to
use this for a season so that I can put
weight on?
Uh, this is me personally. I wouldn't see a problem
with that. If somebody also came to me and said, Hey,
every now and then, um, I have, uh, recreational marijuana,
but I would use it the same way that somebody
(15:23):
would have a glass of beer or two glasses of beer.
I'm not using it to get stoned.
Uh, I, I use it because, you know, I'm just
enjoying myself to relax, but not stoned. I'm totally functional. Uh,
I feel like I would have a hard time biblically
arguing with that. I could say you need to be cautious,
you need to make sure that you're not rationalizing, you
need to make sure of all that, but there's all
(15:46):
types of things like alcohol.
And, um, cocaine and so I wouldn't, I would never say,
oh OK, well, sniff a line every now and then, right? Uh,
because it's so highly addictive, but is there a place
for some of that as it relates to anesthetizing somebody
before you go into surgery? And I'd say, well, absolutely,
like if you're gonna get uh surgery, they use.
(16:08):
Uh, codeine and all that to help you to recover, uh,
and so it's just different. You have to know that OK,
if you're an addict, um, is this gonna be something
that that you're able to even think about? So, uh,
I think that's the way that I would talk about
any type of addictive property. Um, there's even discussions today,
(16:30):
which it's hard for me to even think about a
little bit, but people are talking about how limited amounts of.
Um, uh, uh, of mushrooms that that they're helping PTSD
patients that have, uh, come out of war and they're
finding help in that and I'm thinking, man, uh, that,
that seems like a can of worms right there, but
(16:50):
these are discussions. I'm glad you're asking the question that
we have to think through answers.
And our immediate temptation is just to think about maybe
the way, like for me, I'm thinking about sitting around
listening to Pink Floyd The Wall and frying on multiple
hits of LSD and taking Gravity Bong hits while I'm
smoking cigarettes and drinking a 12 pack of beer at
(17:11):
the same time.
That's not the way that we, we can't bring our
own experience into the moment we have to step back
and think about, OK, well, if science is getting to
a place where they're not getting somebody to go on
some hallucinogen where they're thinking that they're Tom Cruise for
the day.
But it's so light dosed that it does something in
(17:32):
the brain. Um, I'm not comfortable with that. Like, it's
not something I wanna do, but I have to really
think through before I say it's absolutely wrong. Phil Metzger. OK.
Uh, no, I love, I love that answer. There was
a lot of fun moments in that too, Bobby. Thank
you for that. That was really, that just, that brought
a lot of joy, but no, I mean, oh my gosh,
(17:53):
I'm just listening and thinking like that's such a good
answer and it's so easy to be like.
It's easy to have a defensive reaction, but I also
like that, you know, we've got to help people to
learn how to take the time to just pause and
think and reflect and see this biblically and so no,
I have nothing to add other than I think I'll be.
is, is, uh, amazing, and I thought that was a
great answer. Yeah, Tommy, you know, uh, what I would say, Katherine, um,
(18:17):
you know, just by listening to your question, uh, this
is on recreational use of marijuana and you you said
you mentioned that you, you know, you struggled and you
come from a life, you know, of addiction, um, and
how your recreational use, you know, little by little of,
of marijuana kind of led you into a full on.
(18:39):
You know, just uh back into using, um, whatever that was,
whatever it's, you know, alcohol or any other, you know,
drug or anything like that. And, you know, one of
the things that I, I would just, uh, just be,
be very careful because
You know, uh, you know, I think when we talk
about like the medicinal use of, of narcotics, you know,
(19:00):
whether it's like, you know, oxycodone or whatever, or even
marijuana in this case, you know, for cancer patients and everything, sometimes,
you know, for people, um, you know, like I myself, I,
you know, I was a I was a drug addict
for 15 years of my life, you know, just, uh,
getting to the point where I was sticking needles in
my arm and and shooting up and.
You know, led to just a, just a, uh, a
(19:22):
lot of heartache and, um, and I know like if
I were to, you know, just even, uh, you know,
drink a little bit, like for some people may have that,
that liberty or they, they don't have that vice of addiction.
You know, to where they can have a maybe a
glass of wine, you know, every now and then, and, um,
(19:42):
and that that'll be it like and for my, like
for my case, uh, Katherine, you know, having the same
kind of a sounds like a similar background with you
with addiction, like if I have a glass of wine,
if I choose to have a glass of wine.
I, it's like I already know it's like 6 months, yeah,
talk to me 6 months down the road it's gonna,
you know, it isn't gonna be a glass. It's, it's
(20:04):
gonna be a bottle you're gonna find me, you know,
I'll there in the street, you know, smoking cigarettes, hustling
dope or something like, hey, what happened? And it, well,
it all started with a glass of wine, you know, and.
And God would would God has sounds like he's he's
delivered you, he's saved you, he's he's, you know, you're,
you're seeking the Lord and we have these vices and
(20:24):
so just using wisdom when it comes to these types
of things, whether it's alcohol or even recreational use and
the invitation is like, come on, here have this little gummy,
it's not, it's not a big deal. Um, well, for
people like you, myself, and, you know, and, and Bobby
for that matter, those those are big deals, you know,
it's it's gonna, it's gonna ruin my life and um.
(20:45):
You know, it's like it's gonna take me all all
the way back, you know, to where, where I, you know,
where God had had brought me from and so, you know,
I think God is trying to show you something in this, like, hey, this,
this is not for you, you know, this is, you know,
this isn't for you, um.
And you know, so, and for anybody else that might
be listening that have, you know, background with addiction and
and all these things and and it's really easy, I
(21:07):
think especially in in many states and here in California
with the legalization of marijuana and all these dispensaries around it,
you know, it's just so easy to justify. Now it's like,
oh well.
It's it's legal now, you know, and I'm, it's not
against the law now, so I guess I'm, you know,
it's a little bit better, it's a little easier, and
then we kind of justify like, well, you know, God
(21:29):
created it, so why not, you know, and, and it's like, well,
you know, OK, well if that's the case, it's kind
of like, you know, we can say God created poison
ivy too, but we don't go rubbing that on our skin,
do we, you know.
Because we know that's harmful for us, you know, um, and, and,
and so yes, it's just really exercising wisdom in all
of these things and, and knowing what God's delivered you from.
(21:49):
And it is a battle. It's a, it's a, for,
for some, you know, it was a, it was a
daily battle for me, you know, for the first, you know,
couple of years, um, in my walk in my journey
with the Lord and, and, uh, you know, I'm just
glad that, you know, there's my, my family is there and,
and we've just made a commitment together. It's like, hey,
this is not something we're going to ever entertain and
(22:10):
Um, all by God's grace, you know, uh, just having to, to,
you know, be live with sobriety now for, for 25
years now, you know, this, this past June, June 11th
was 25 years of sobriety and 25 years of walking
with Jesus, and, and it's all by the grace of God,
but it's not an easy journey. It is, it is
a battle. Yeah, Katherine, what do you think?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
No, that was so good. Yeah, I really needed to
hear that, um, from a pastor's perspective, um, because in
my space, I have just thought, no for everybody. Um,
so that's good. I don't want to judge people unfairly.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Yeah. Bobby, any other thoughts? Yeah, well, that's, I mean,
and that's that's it's normal because when you've been wrecked
by addiction, it, it, it's easy for us to come
out swinging uh with black and white, um.
But I, I, I was, I mean, I've just realized like.
I've seen, I've just seen people drink my my wife
(23:10):
drinks in moderation, um, you know, now if I'm out
with her, there's certain things like I'm like I don't
wanna sit at a bar because that might make because people,
I don't want people to think, oh shoot, is Bobby
having a relapse right now? or uh she you know she, she,
she called me even like about a month ago like
and asked if I'd pick up a bottle of wine
for her. I said, honey, I'm, I'm, that's, I'm not
gonna do it's, I could totally do that if we
(23:32):
were out of town somewhere and you need a glass.
Bottle of wine I bring it home for you, but
people know that I'm a pastor in this area and
they also know that I had a relapse seven years ago, so, uh,
that could send mixed messages. Uh, early on as a Christian,
I would have thought everybody was wrong for drinking and
my wife didn't even start to drink until we'd already
(23:54):
been married for almost 15 years.
Uh, and it, it just, it doesn't bother me at all, uh,
because my kids drink in moderation. Uh, I think most
people can drink in moderation. I wish I could drink
in moderation because I would join, uh, the, the moderation club, uh,
but my experience seven years ago got me a seat
(24:15):
back in AA in no time.
Um, so I think it's just knowing where we are,
but there are people with addictions, and, and not everybody
with one addiction struggles with all addictions. I mean, there's
people that go to AAA, uh, and then they can,
you know, they might, they might be the person that
does recreational marijuana, go, you know what, it's not, it
(24:37):
doesn't send them down the rabbit hole that alcohol does.
But other people would say, oh yeah, man, that's, that,
that's gonna be a, a gateway for me.
So all I think what I would try to say
is know yourself and, and realize that, that we're different
and we have to realize that because my fear is,
for example, there's some Christians that will basically
(25:00):
There's some Christians that can drink in moderation, but they're
feeling guilty for having a glass of wine at dinner
because they're around other Christians that tell them that Christians
should ever drink and they're putting something on that person
that I don't think God's putting on them.
So, uh, for me, I know that what, what, what
(25:20):
it looks like when to start picking stuff up and, and,
and drinking is very dangerous. um, and so just being
mindful of where everybody's at and being tender toward everyone
else is, is, is really wise, but I do think
Tommy and Phil and and myself hopefully uh offered you
some perspective. Yeah, yeah, you know, and I do, I
(25:43):
do think that, you know, there's so many different, um.
You know, viewpoints when it comes to alcohol, especially within
the church and everything and and uh just like, like
with what what Bobby said, you know, it's like we
all
You know, we have our own personal convictions and I
think that's what's important is like what is the Lord
leading you, you know, to this is your journey with
the Lord, this is your walk and, and you know
(26:04):
and and those personal convictions they can be very heavy
for you and, and right, you know, and, and good
to where it, you know, just uh you really sense
this is the leading of the Lord um in my life, um,
but it can be very something very.
Easy to where we begin to impose these kinds of
convictions on other people, you know, um, and, and so
(26:26):
we do have to be, be very careful with that,
you know, so I would just encourage to for all,
everyone listening believers like, man, you know, just really, you know,
seek the Lord and if there's a, if there's a
conviction there where the Lord's like, hey, you know what,
now you're you're better without this, well then I would
say listen to the Lord and if you don't sense that,
well then, you know, hey, that's the, you know, the
leading of the Lord in that.
(26:47):
So, probably every answer we just gave to Catherine would
apply to Sam, who sent this in through Kwave.com, but
let me read it, see if you guys want to
add anything.
Uh, Sam says after 25 years of sobriety, I found
myself face first in the ground. I started using drugs
again and lost my son by the courts, almost lost
(27:08):
my wife, and have regained 2 years of sobriety this year.
My question is, I've messed my life up for so
many years. I owe back child support. I haven't filed
taxes in 4 years. I have no money to pay
a CPA, no money to pay.
Child support and still live. I have constant anxiety that
I'm going to be thrown in prison, and as much
(27:28):
as I seek guidance from God, I only receive silence.
How do I get this constant anxiety out of my
life and stomach? Are there resources to help someone like me?
I've messed up my life so much, it seems like
it's not fixable anymore. I'm beyond depressed and fearful of
the ability to survive my current family with my current situations. Bobby,
what do you say to Sam?
(27:50):
Jeez, you know.
Let me think about Sam's statement a little bit and throw,
throw it over to Phil if you don't mind because I, uh, uh, uh, uh, I,
there is a such a tender pastor's heart, but there,
there's some thoughts out, but I'd love to hear what
Phil had to say on that. OK, Phil.
Yeah, I mean, I know, and I know our time
(28:11):
is a bit brief at the moment, so obviously, Brian,
just tell me when I'm done if I can't hear it. Um,
just start with like you've got about, uh, you can, yeah,
about a minute to 90 seconds just so you know.
All right, I can, I can always blab for that.
But honestly, like, yeah, as a pastor, I'm just thinking like, dude,
that is heartbreaking first of all, and I guarantee you, Sam,
there's other people that have these kinds of situations and
(28:32):
One form or another, so you're not alone. In terms
of resources, I really want to point you to going,
connecting in with a local church and letting them help
you with those resources. If you can't find the local
church that has it, go to a mega church in
your area. Whether you agree with the mega church or not,
they're probably gonna have, um, information on good resources. Um,
that's that's been my experience. Look for those resources that
(28:54):
are local, um.
I think what we care about, like what, what burdens
us so much is that like, did you hit rock
bottom and then you're feeling like I'm still a rock
bottom because I'm not hearing from God. God isn't meeting me.
Let me suggest to you, God is present. He is present.
You may not be feeling anything, and it's possible that
you're trying to revert to a
Experiences you've had with God when you were brand new
(29:15):
or like 25, 30 years ago, that's not your situation anymore.
And so we need to like trust the Lord and
have faith in him even in the moment that you're
currently in them. God has not abandoned you, bro. I
promise you that. I promise you that. Yeah.
Tommy, 2 seconds yeah, that's a good word and Sam,
I would say, man, if you've asked God to forgive you,
you know, in this process, you are forgiven and you
(29:38):
know that's the, that's the goodness of God, you know, and,
and just rest in the forgiveness of the Lord and
and allow him to restore you, yeah.
All right, we'll see what Bobby wants to tell Sam
when we come back here on Pastor's Perspective, and we'll
see what you want to tell Bobby. It's his last
day with us today on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is our number.
(29:58):
We will be back in just a few minutes here
on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173.
This program is pre-recorded.
(30:20):
We're back on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is the number to call.
I'm Brian Perez in the studio with Tommy Coda, the
pastor of Hope Alive Church in Santa Ana. We're also
joined by Phil Metzger, the pastor of Calvary San Diego.
He's joining us online and.
and apologist, Doctor Bobby Conway, the pastor of Image Church
in Charlotte, North Carolina, whom you see on the YouTube
(30:43):
channel called The Graphite Apologist. If you haven't already liked
and subscribed that YouTube channel, do it now. The Graphite Apologist,
so that you can keep connected with Bobby.
After he leaves us from Pastor's perspective, which today is
his last day, and we're gonna miss him, and so
will Patsy and San Marcos, who's watching us on YouTube
(31:05):
right now. Hey, Patsy.
Oh, of course. And I have been with pastor's perspective
for many, many years. I've watched the changing of the guards,
and I never saw a guard that I did not
think was a blessing from God. And yes, Bobby, um,
(31:31):
you know,
I'm not ready to say I'm an old lady, but
I'm surely an old girl. And I think what you
are doing is wonderful. To connect art with Bible is,
and I have a dog crawling on me. She's 100 pounds.
(31:54):
Oh wow.
Oh no, oh, and she, she, uh, pulls my computer.
Oh no, that would not be good because it says
here that you're watching us on YouTube, but yeah, Patsy, uh, Bobby,
how he's connected the church with art and how he
(32:14):
continues to do that. Tell us a little bit a
little bit about the graphite topologist, what your, uh, mission
is with that, your vision. Yeah, so that's been a
lot of fun for those watching. I just finished up.
This piece nice did my wife this past week my
Barbie doll, but uh yeah I'm doing amazing bro, yeah, yeah,
(32:36):
I'm doing uh I'm doing.
Videos called on the graphite Apologist where I take my
drawings that take like 20 hours and then there's 62nd
shorts that are shown and I'm answering apologetic questions through
art and so I'm drawing CS Lewis, you know, Francis Schaeffer,
(33:00):
and I've got all kinds of pieces that I'm uh
working on.
Uh, there's a part of me that wants to slow
it down though, because I'm putting out pieces and it
takes a long time to bring out what I really
love to do is the hyperrealism. But we're putting out
2 to 3 videos per week and people can check
out the graphite Apologist, and then I just launched Ponder,
(33:24):
and they can even see that at, um, the graphite
Apologist on YouTube. If they'll subscribe, that would mean a lot.
That's how they can keep in touch with me. Uh,
I'll be.
I'll be doing, um, I'll be doing lots of lives, uh,
that are gonna be starting up so that, that if
you wanna continue to follow my ministry, subscribe to my
(33:46):
YouTube channel, and then my arts coming out on t-shirts, um, um,
I've seen that.
broke in prints. I'll have special edition prints, uh, as well.
And so it's called ponder because I want, you know,
to create art worth thinking about, uh, that gives us
conversation points to have. So yeah, that's what I'm doing
(34:09):
and really looking forward to it. You gotta send uh
Tommy a new baseball cap so that we can take
the LA Dodgers, man. Hey, these, these are pretty cool, man,
some cool merch.
Yeah, thanks man. I appreciate that gives you something to
ponder on for sure. Yeah, some of them are, some
of them are canvases, um, but that's Soren Kierkegaard that
(34:31):
you see right there. He talked about the existential leap
of faith, and so, yeah, you just see it all
kind of come together while I'm explaining. So all the
t-shirts then have videos that explain them and so that
it's just kind of an exciting way to to do what.
You know, a lot of people don't care about apologetics,
(34:53):
but they will get into it through art. But then
my t-shirts, they don't say anything, uh, so even if
people aren't Christians, they could start buying them and they
might not realize how much detail I've built into the
point of the shirt. Yeah.
Do you like on each of the shirt, do you
have a, I don't know, like a QR code or
(35:15):
something that would take people to the page on your
YouTube channel that explains what the video is all about? No,
that's a good question. Um, I should, and now that
you're asking that, uh, you know, I'm just trying to
figure it out. I didn't even know I could draw
until a year and a half ago, uh, and so I,
I don't know how to start a t-shirt company, and
(35:36):
I'm doing that.
Um, and I'm terrible with technology and I'm trying to
put these videos, uh, out there, so I, I really
have no idea what I'm doing. I'm just showing up
and hoping that the Lord will bless it. Uh, this
has been more of the comfort zone answering questions and, but, uh,
as I've said, I've never had a gift come so
(35:58):
quickly as in my life is art, uh, and I'm
really thankful for that.
Yeah, and speaking of gifts, uh, if people wanted to
support your ministry both at your at your church there
and and through everything that you're doing online, how could
they do that? Well, that would be huge, you know, uh,
if anybody, you know, would be open to being uh
(36:19):
uh a monthly supporter, they would go to ChristianityStill makes sense.com.
Uh, that was a site that, you know, I was
doing a lot of stuff with. I'll be changing all
the names up, but if they go to ChristianityStill makes sense.com,
there's a donate button.
And people could give a one time offering, uh, or
(36:40):
monthly support, but yes, in this new adventure while I'm
trying to start a bunch of things, uh, you know,
it's kind of like there's there's no income yet. And so, uh,
people that might believe in my ministry and want to
get behind what I'm doing trying to use art to
help people to defend the faith, um, if they wouldn't
mind going to, uh, ChristianityStill makesense.com, click the donate button.
(37:04):
And um we're also gonna be launching a new email
subscriber list next week and so I'll be really keeping
in touch with our donors, sending new products, um, giving
opportunities for first editions, uh, and all that kind of
stuff so the relationship with me can go on, um,
and that's what they could do. That's awesome. Christianity still
(37:27):
makes sense.com. Catherine in San Diego listening on the Kwave app. Hello.
Hi. Um,
I, I couldn't hear you. Oh, go ahead. What is
your question for us today? My, my question is, um,
But the um why.
(37:49):
Why am I leaving?
Well, I feel like at this stage, uh, well, there's
a couple of things. I know that Kawa, for example,
is very excited about, um, you know, my endeavor. They
are behind me on planting a church and, you know, thankfully,
even promoting what I'm doing.
So this is nothing weird that has went on with
(38:12):
K wave in the least. Uh, about a year and
a half ago, uh, I even sensed that, you know,
some direction change could be taking place where, uh, that
would come down the road. Uh, I'm not live in studio.
I'm on the east coast and so I know.
That they've built up a relationship with a lot of
local people and would love to be able to even
(38:35):
have somebody in studio at some point, but I don't
know a lot of the, you know, the future direction
with Kwave, uh, what it's gonna be, but I know
they're going to keep that radio show going and Brian
and I are super tight. I mean, he's literally like
a hero, a mentor. Uh, we have never had one.
(38:57):
South moment. He's been so gracious with my lead time
on this show, so I'm, I, I have nothing but
positive things to say. In fact, I'm gonna be jumping
on the show after a season if they ever want
me to come back on as a guest. So all
that to say.
I just had a pastor, for example, leave the church
(39:17):
and I, I, I made the announcement and I'm always
worried when I do that, that people think, oh, something
went wrong. Nothing went wrong. Uh, it's just Pastor Brian
resigned from being the lead guy.
Of Calvary and uh you know I think that they're
gonna look at some point maybe at getting somebody that's
more local but I don't even know for sure if
(39:37):
that's set in stone. Uh, if it is, uh, that's
what it is but I'm so thankful for the opportunity
I have to be here and I also think for me, uh,
God's given me this new artistic gift and I'm gonna
go and try and pursue that.
Here's you could still hear Bobby on the weekends here
on Kwave. His program called Christianity Still Makes Sense is
(39:57):
on Saturday nights at 6:30. Also Sunday afternoons at, oh goodness,
I forget, 3 o'clock I think or 2:30 somewhere, somewhere,
I think it's 2:30. I can look on Kwave.com on
the programs page. Katherine, thank you for your phone call.
Jerry and Anaheim, what did you want to ask, Bobby?
Uh, yes, I've heard, well, again, I'm sad that Bobby's
(40:20):
leaving too, um, but, um, you know, God takes different adventures. Um,
I've heard Bobby talk about, um, post being post-trip, um,
or
Possibly being post-trip. I'm just curious, um, what led you
to that cause I have a friend who's like staunch
post-trip and, and he mentioned something about dispensational lists and that,
(40:45):
how that kind of throws off, uh, you know, like
there's a debate between, um, pre and post because of it.
OK, Bobby, well, I'm gonna be very brief so my
teammates don't have to listen to me, uh, talk here.
This is your last day, bro. Go for it, man. Well, uh,
(41:06):
you know, I, I get, but we're still a team
and I, I wanna hear from you guys as well.
There's 3 of us, so.
Uh, I would just say, uh, uh, I guess I'm,
I'm just confused about the timing of it all, and, uh,
it was presented as this is the only way, this
is when it's gonna happen, and then I just started
reading the other views and going wow, it's not as
(41:28):
clear as I was taught.
And for me it's just about being faithful to my
listeners to say there's different viewpoints out there and I'm
a confusionist on it. I lean post rib, but I've said,
I would hate to guarantee people a pre-trib option and
(41:49):
then be the pastor left of the congregation trying to
lead them through a tribulation. I'll have a lot of
tribulation in my church because people will be like, You
told me we're gonna be out of here and we're
in the middle of this thing.
And so it, you know, maybe it's just a secure
way of saying, hey, if I find myself going through
the tribulation, the church will stick with me because I
let them know that it's possible that we'll be around
(42:10):
in the middle of it, yeah, Phil.
So much good stuff in there. A confusionist. That's gonna
be new. Yeah, that's gonna be the new one, bro.
I love that. And um that's his next t-shirt. Yeah,
that's exactly. I'm just waiting. I was like literally looking
at your pond merch and I was thinking that's gonna
be a dope shirt, a pre-trib, post-trib, and then the confusionists, yeah.
(42:32):
But I, I, I, I honestly do agree with you,
you know, I think we both kind of came from
the background of like, pretty, you know, feeling pretty kind
of almost like overconfident in a, in a, in a
theological perspective.
And then you realize, my goodness, as you really get
into this and as you study, and if you take
time to consider other perspectives, you realize these are not
foolish perspectives. These are not foolish ideas. There's, there is,
(42:54):
and I think I might adopt that term confusionist. I
think I, I like that a lot because, um, I, and,
and almost the idea that like, let's just, let's just
be honest, like,
You know, I have a perspective, but I'm comfortable with
some of the other perspectives in the sense that like,
I want to have a humility that says, hey, I,
I just want to prepare people to meet Jesus. And
(43:15):
the timing of that is, um, you know, maybe it
is a little bit difficult to be dogmatic in some ways. Um,
I may lean more in a pre-tribulation, uh,
perspective, but I have such high respect and and value
a post-tribulationalist perspective and other perspectives. And so I, I'm
totally in agree with these are not issues. Friends listening
(43:36):
to this, watching this. These are not issues that should
divide us. These are things that should make us be
able to have a good, healthy, fun conversation that ends
with us laughing together and really sell.
Celebrating that we all love Jesus and that's really what
it comes down to for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's
that's kind of what I was going to share is like,
you know, these are um the different uh eschatological views
(43:59):
and positions that people have. Sometimes, you know, people can
get so dogmatic and so dig their heels in on
these issues and, and not.
And not be willing to reason and not be willing
to like listen, because this isn't something, you know, um,
that should be dividing, you know, Jesus people, you know,
people who love Jesus because there's so many, there's different
(44:21):
positions and different uh ideas and views in all of this,
and it is unfortunate that at times um this can
be a divisive tool, um, that, that the devil would
actually use, you know, to bring division amongst people, and
these aren't, this isn't one of them.
You know, let's just keep our focus on Jesus, you know, um, yeah,
(44:41):
because at the end of the day, you know, when
you listen to all the different, uh, positions and everything, uh, it,
you can end up confused and take the position of
a Confucius, so.
Yeah, I mean, the big thing I would say is
I have found that typically your most dogmatic people uh
(45:03):
on issues that are really black and white are people
that have listened to the choir preach to them like
they have not been exposed to other views. They've only
been studied in their own camp. They have a select
number of authors that they're comfortable with.
And I just, uh, I'm just not wired that way. I, I,
(45:26):
I look at different things. I think about different things.
I don't try to put everybody in a box and, uh,
I believe that Jesus died on the cross, rose from
the grave physically, and is bodily gonna return again, and
I have my faith and trust in him.
And there's a lot of different discussions that we can
have as believers, but the rigidity, uh, I was more
(45:49):
rigid as an early believer in my ignorance than I
am now with two doctorates. I, I feel I, I, I,
I feel more ignorant now on, on, on things. It's,
and I've, and, and part of that ignorance that I
feel is I've studied a lot of different views and
so when I hear people talk in sharp dogmatism.
Uh, uh, it's usually they might sound strong, but they're,
(46:13):
they're often very narrowly educated in a certain lane, and
if they were to debate somebody that's, that's broadly trained, uh,
they would probably really get taken to the laundromat quickly
for sure. All right, let's go to Mon and Jerry,
thank you for calling in. Let's go to Monrovia now. Hi,
(46:36):
who's this?
Oh, is this me? Yeah, you.
Oh, I'm Andrea, and uh I was wondering uh if
it's possible for me instead of asking a question, I
just wanted to say how it's um how
Moved Ian from Bobby's Pastor Bobby's testimony yesterday and today
(46:58):
where he talked about all of the different things that
he did in the past. I found that way more
motivating than when pastors say that they've never drank before,
they've never done this or that. It was just really
refreshing to have someone share the things that they have done.
And, uh, how the Lord has changed them. And so
(47:20):
I just wanted to say I'm really going to miss
Pastor Bobby because I always looked forward to your answers
to all of the questions. And now I'm not going
to have a chance to ask all the other questions
that I had for you as well, but I have
called in and you have answered some of my questions,
and I just wanted to say I was really grateful.
(47:40):
Thank you so much. It's very kind of you to
say and
Again, to everybody listening, um, you know, you guys are,
you guys have been an amazing audience. I've loved my
relationship with you. I'm gonna miss you guys very much and, um,
let's keep the conversation going, uh, by subscribing to the
graphite apologists and you can, uh, even ask me your
(48:01):
questions on live. I might even be doing, um, you know,
uh if I get it.
You know, enough of you guys over there, we can
always look at doing 30 minute live shows or something
once a week, and you can just ask me things
on a graphite apologist as well. So I'm happy to serve. Uh,
it's just gonna be in a different venue. And please
don't do it at this time slot because you'll steal
(48:21):
all the listeners away and it's just like, come on, man.
I would never want to do that. And, uh, that's
for sure. I'm joking, man. Elizabeth and Chino listening on
Facebook or watching on Facebook. Hi Elizabeth, welcome.
Hi, hi, good afternoon. Good afternoon. parroting what thank you. Um,
it is, uh, I'm just was listening, chimed in like
(48:44):
at 3:20 because I'm preparing for tomorrow in the kitchen
here and I heard the
you know, you guys announced that again, Bobby Conway is off,
the good doctor's off onto other endeavors. And yeah, I
just have enjoyed the show and all of you and
Bobby and, um, congratulations on everything and wow, I was,
(49:06):
I was shocked. I'm surprised that you're leaving, but it happens. And, um.
I'm really excited and happy for you and your family
and everything that you're going forward with.
Thank you so much, boy, I feel like I'm starting
to get emotional in my soul right now and uh.
Hopefully I won't break down and start crying on you guys. Um, this,
(49:29):
this really has been such an amazing time. I just
thankful for you guys and thankful to the team and, uh,
thankful for allowing me to show up in all of
my brokenness and God had, um, Brian Broderson isn't here
but God really used him to restore my soul in
(49:50):
ministry and his belief in God's hand on me.
Oh man, uh, just the, the words of gratitude I
have for, for Brian Broderson. OK, let's turn this into
a roast that way Bobby doesn't get emotional. So Metzger,
if you want to start roasting Bobby, then you know. OK,
I'll start. Bobby, what is this two doctorates thing that
(50:12):
you just mentioned? I want to hear. I want to know.
People want to know what's going on, what's happening? Talk
to me.
You, you, what do you mean like how I got
them or why I got them? Yeah, you said you
have to listen, it took me my whole life to
get one, and now you have two. What is happening, dude.
Well, it's called being an addict that got sober and
(50:34):
threw his addiction into study.
And so, um, you know, a lot of my education, um,
I was a guy that couldn't pass the test to
get in the military. I failed the ASVAB 3 times.
I had to pay somebody to type my papers in
Bible College. When I met Heather, I sat outside Chili's
and I wouldn't go in because I didn't think I
(50:55):
could learn the menu. That's how uneducated I was. I
was the senior sitting in class with sophomores, and I
was a dumb butt basically.
But I fell in love with Jesus and I felt
like the way to know him more is I had
to learn to read and you know I bought a
little pocket dictionary and I started studying adjectives because I
(51:16):
felt like I didn't have a vocabulary to describe my
love for God and I started learning adjectives so that
I could increase my vocabulary to give him my thanks
and my praise, and I just started learning and studying
and so so much of my studies was rooted in
my own insecurities of what I didn't know.
And then somewhere along the line while I was at
Dallas Seminary, I started feeling like, wow, I actually love
(51:40):
academics and maybe could have done more of this, uh,
but it just wasn't shaped that way from early childhood.
Uh, but God got a hold of me and gave
me this, and that's what happened. I don't think I've
ever heard that adjective story before. That's awesome. Yeah, that,
that's a good story. And, um, listen, you can go
off the show, but you and I and Brian still
got a date at that restaurant that we've been talking
(52:02):
about forever. Bro, I would love to do that. That
would be amazing.
Yeah man, that, that is so cool, Bobby, you know,
and just to hear how how the Lord captured your,
your life, man, and your heart and, um, you know,
there's a lot of just coming from a backgrounds very similar,
you know, uh, both of us with addiction and everything and,
and one of the things I really just want to
(52:23):
say if I can appreciate, you know, just kind of
add to what the callers are saying here, Bobby is like, man,
you've um.
You know, I, I, there's a little acronym I say
at church, KIR man, you, you keep it real, bro,
you know, and, um, you're, you're open and transparent with
a lot of things and, and I know that that
ministers to a lot of people, ministers to me when
I'm listening in the car or something like that and
(52:44):
I got my earphones in and.
Uh, I was like, man, that's, that is so cool
because it does, it just kind of gives people like, man,
you know, I can, um, I can pursue this. If
like if, if God did it for Bobby, Bobby, he
could do it for me too, you know, and, uh,
so that that's a, that's a good thing, man. It's
really appreciate you and all the wisdom and all that stuff, man.
Let's let's keep pressing and pushing forward for Jesus.
(53:05):
Thank you so much, bro. Praise God.
So I have some statistics here. Bobby started in January 2019.
It is now the middle of 2025, so 6.5 years.
And in that 6.5 years, we were not able to
convert him to pre-trib. So, um, I, I think that's
that's something Pastor Brian looks at that he looks at
(53:26):
as as a failure on his part, yes.
Hey, I'm open. We, we just discussed that right now, right?
That's what I mean. I really do. I don't, I mean,
post tribulation sounds miserable. I'm the guy that, I mean, look,
I would, I said I'd be a horrible missionary, and I,
I like, I like the I like comfortable things in life. I, I, I,
(53:48):
I don't like mosquitoes in the South here. I don't
like humidity. Yeah, I mean, I, there's, I'm a pretty
jacked up dude, and, uh, I hope that you guys
are right on pre-trip because that sounds a lot more comfortable.
Yes, and, and, uh, not liking all those bugs and
everything in the South. Yeah, that's probably one of the
reasons why you thought Satan was, uh, having you plant
(54:09):
a church in North Carolina until Pastor Brian said, no, Bobby,
Satan doesn't tell people to plant churches. Yes, we survived
COVID together.
Uh, Tug of War Tuesdays with Tony Clark. Those were
always awesome, man, man. And all these are probably archived
on Facebook and YouTube, so you can go back 6.5
(54:31):
years where wasn't it Pastor Tony Clark that also coined
the coined, uh, the good doctor, the good doctor and
doctor Doctor, yes, yes.
Yeah, so, yeah, I know, right, good memories spoil me
rotten all these years. Thank you so much. So keep
on listening to Bobby on Christianity. Still makes sense here
on Kwave Saturdays at 6:30 p.m. and also Sundays at,
(54:54):
you know what, I should have looked it up online
really quick before I said anything, but it's on Sundays. Uh,
Tommy's on Sundays as well, and Saturdays, but Tommy, uh,
Bobby's Sunday slot is.
Uh, 3. I'm looking at the wrong, ah, it's either
2 or 3. It's somewhere around there. Why can't I
keep listening and you'll just listen 24 hours and you will,
you will hear Bobby eventually. There he is, 3 p.m.
(55:16):
on Sundays and support his ministry Christianitytill makes sense.com. Subscribe
to his YouTube channel, The Graphite Apologist, and, uh, his
newsletter on ChristianityStill makes sense.com.
Blessings to you, Bobby. Love you, man. Love you, Bobby.
God bless you, man. I was happy to be here
with you on this last day. An honor for sure,
(55:39):
forever grateful. All right guys, God bless you. We'll see
you at church on Sunday. No program tomorrow, Friday, July 4th,
and then we'll be back in the studio on Monday.
So for Tommy Coda and Phil Metzger and Bobby Conway,
I'm Brian Perez. Thanks for listening and watching Pastor's Perspective.
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