July 7, 2025 • 56 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:14):
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez,
and we are here live until 4 o'clock this afternoon
to answer the questions you have about the Bible, the
Christian faith, just about anything that's on your mind. We
can try to answer it here. 888-564-6173 is the number
to call. If you're watching on Facebook, YouTube, or Instagram,
(00:35):
thank you for watching. You can call in too. We
like when you guys participate with us here on the.
888-564-6173 is that number to call. And answering your questions today,
we've got the lead pastor of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa
in Southern California, Char Broderson. How's it going, Char? It's
going well, Brian. How are you? Good, man. Thanks for
coming in today. Great to have you on. Mike Chaddick
(00:57):
is joining us too. He's the senior pastor of Image
Church in San Juan Capistrano, California. How are you doing, Mike?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I'm doing wonderful. Great to be here today, guys. Yeah,
Speaker 1 (01:08):
thanks for joining us. Now, you can also send in
your questions online, but we prefer to speak with you.
So 888-564-6173 is that number once again. The way you
can get your question to us online is by going
to the pastor's perspective Facebook and using Messenger to get
your question to us, or on the pastor's perspective Instagram
(01:28):
by DMing us, or you can go to Kwave.com, look
for the
Master's perspective page or scan the QR code if you're
watching on Facebook, YouTube, or Instagram, that'll take you to
that page, and there's a form there that you can
fill out and get your question to us. And that's
what Christina did. She's in Laguna Hills, and she writes,
I've begun studying apologetics two years ago, and while I
(01:51):
love the pursuit of theological knowledge, I can't shake the
feeling that the more I study, the more miserable I
feel in my spiritual walk.
Excuse me, the more miserable I feel in my spiritual walk,
because most people will not be swayed toward Jesus, no
matter how much information there is or how cogent a
theological argument is. The whole pursuit feels ultimately futile in
(02:13):
this world. Secondly, the more I study church history and theologians,
the more guilty I feel for seeking happiness in life
as a Christian.
It feels like if ministry and misery go hand in
hand because we have to focus on the brokenness of
this world and of the church. How do you overcome
this and how can I trudge forward? Char, what do
(02:33):
you tell Christina?
Yeah, I mean, that's interesting, um.
You know, just the, the more one studies, um, you know,
kind of gets more and more, I guess, disillusioned by
um the state of the world and um kind of the,
I guess the tools that we have in apologetics and
(02:54):
these things. I, I do think there is something to
what um Christina is saying, and and what I mean
by that is, I think if we, if we believe
that it is all up to us.
And our theological arguments or, you know, our, our logical reasoning, um,
(03:14):
that this is how people are going to be convinced
of the truth. I do think that that is a
hopeless state for the world. But what we need to
remember is in the story of the Bible, redemption or
salvation is God's work. It's God's mission.
That he is about and completely committed to, so much
so that he sends his one and only son, his
(03:37):
most prized possession. He, God comes, uh, the scriptures speak
himself and accomplishes redemption. He is so committed to it,
and he has invited us into that work.
And so, you know, I think if we're only thinking
about it being up to us and our theological arguments
and these things, yeah, that that's pretty hopeless. But if
(03:57):
we understand that this is God's work and that he
is a God who is pursuing people, uh, redeeming people,
then there's actually a lot of hope for us. There's
a lot of hope for the, the state of the world. Uh,
it's interesting actually, when you um study kind of the
Statistics, I guess, behind, you know, what has brought people
(04:18):
into the Christian faith, what causes people to believe, uh,
you rarely find that it is actually, uh, theological arguments
or apologetics. It doesn't mean that these aren't important and
that these aren't used at times, but these are downstream
from what actually brings people into the faith. And even
more recently, what has been, um,
(04:41):
You know, basically documented, is that people come to the
faith because of a community of God's people that actually
put God's character and God's kingdom on display. And Jesus
actually says this in the sermon on the Mount, right?
He speaks to the disciples and says, you people are
the light of the world. A city that is set
(05:03):
on a hill cannot be hidden. Therefore, let your light
shine before people, that they may see your good works
and glorify your Father in heaven.
See, God's people are actually the main way, the way
that we live together, the way that we love one another,
that God is witnessed in this world. We are like
this light in the darkness that shows the way, that
(05:25):
gives clarity, that gives sight to the world, about the
way things should be, the way things can be under
the reign of God. And I think, you know, I,
I guess what I'm trying to say is,
If we're only pursuing apologetics and theological arguments and believing
that this is what's going to convince people, I think
the scripture would actually direct us towards the pursuit of
(05:48):
the character of Jesus through discipleship, to live out of
the way of God's kingdom, and this will be the
way that people are brought in to the kingdom of God.
And so I think that that's really where our focus
and where the scriptures actually focus us as the people
of God. And again, it doesn't mean
That we aren't concerned about doctrine. It doesn't mean that
(06:11):
we aren't concerned to defend the faith against false idols
and ideologies and these things, but first and foremost, that
is not the call of God's people. The call of
God's people is uh to follow in the way of
Jesus and to practice the way of God's kingdom as
we live with one another. Mike, what would you say?
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Yeah, that was a great answer, and, and one thing
just to encourage Christina with, she's actually affirming what scripture
already told us about her predicament.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 actually says with much learning comes much vexation
and with much knowledge, much grief. So that's the creatures
(06:51):
sort of counsel, kind of a heads up about knowledge
in this world, and he's not saying it's a bad thing,
it's just, to be honest, the more you know, there
can be so much more disappointment. And to be honest,
another thing, and I'm in charge, you've probably encountered this too.
The more I study, yes, I get some answers, but
then I actually tend to end up getting more questions.
(07:12):
Then I got answers. So like if your pursuit is just, oh,
I want to know everything. I want certainty about every
possible thing, man, if you really pour yourself into the studying,
you're actually going to find the opposite. You're gonna find, wow,
I have more questions now than I started.
And that's not to say we're being agnostic, like, oh,
you know, you can't learn real genuine knowledge. No, you can,
(07:35):
but the irony is, if you really want to feel
like you know everything, the best thing to do is
not study, because then you can kind of limit yourself,
you can limit your
Your belief in what's possible to know and you can feel,
oh man, like just go the rest of your life
not learning, believe you, you know it all, you've been
done it all, you can't possibly learn and you'll really
be confident, right? The scary thing is, the more you study,
(07:59):
The more you read, the more you engage with other people,
including Christians from other traditions, the more you realize, wow, I,
there's so much I actually don't know. Well, while acknowledging, yes,
I've learned, I'm thankful for that at the same time,
I acknowledge there's more out there. And like to what
Char was saying, I mean, God has diverse ways of
(08:20):
reaching people, right? I mean, all kinds of ways. So,
you know,
God can use a book or knowledge, for example, the
first person off my head was Chuck Colson, right? So
if you hear Chuck Colson's conversion story where he was
working for the Nixon administration, he got put in prison,
and he would say that he came to faith through
(08:41):
reading a book, Mere Christianity by CS Lewis. However, so
first of all, I'd want to say yes, sometimes information.
Um, can't God can use that, right? However, if you
kind of even examine his well, wait a minute, but
it was also your circumstances, right? God had to bring
you low, right? He had to bring you to a
place before that information even meant anything to you. Like,
(09:04):
do you think the reading mirror Christianity five years before
going to prison?
Would have had the same impact? Probably not. It pro
it probably wouldn't have. Um, I think relationships are so important,
like studying how CS Lewis himself came to faith, you know,
it wasn't like he read one book or he just
read the Bible one time or or had one it
(09:26):
was through many, many years and a long journey going
through life, living out his own philosophy that he had
come up with, having a long-term friendship with a
fellow believer JR Tolkien, in particular, having many conversations with
him and then having encounters where sometimes in the course
of a conversation, a light bulb went off, but then
(09:47):
there was a time where I think he recalls, sure,
you might know this, he recalls an epiphany where he
goes to a zoo or something and he says, I
went up to that zoo, a non-believer, I walked away
a believer in God. He he had some epiphany revelation,
inspiration and recognized, oh my gosh.
And then to affirm your point toar about the importance
of community, I'm reminded of St. Augustine's famous statement, I
(10:11):
would not have known God as my father unless I
had known the church is my mother. And what he
meant by that is that the church is the hermeneutic
of the gospel. The church embodies truth and so I
think it's very important, and I think maybe to
Two ideas that we can link together helps us remember
this is embodied truth. It's not just giving people little pamphlets,
(10:35):
throwing them out or throwing out bits of information. It's
really embodying that truth. And yes, that'll come out perhaps
in a book or a pamphlet or something, but many
times it's as you live out the truth of the gospel,
as you love people, and
As you trust in the sovereignty and providence of God,
that like Chuck Colson, the reality is many of us
(10:56):
had to go through whatever we had to go through
before the stuff we heard a million times hit us,
as it were, for the first time in such a
way that we responded in faith. So we have good courage, Christina,
and everyone else out there. God is working. Oh, and
if I can make a long, long story longer lasting,
Paul said to Timothy, study to show yourself approved to.
(11:20):
God
Sometimes I think we're studying, oh, I want to prove
myself to people. I want to show how much I know. Oh,
I'm going to win them in. Really, the number one
reason I study, yes, I hope people are blessed by it.
It's to show myself approved unto God. It's about my
walk with God. The reason I keep learning and why
I hope I never stop learning has nothing to do
with being an intellectual. It has nothing to do with
(11:41):
impressing people. It absolutely is about my walk with Jesus
Christ and being a good steward of what God has
given me to do. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Yeah, and I think Mike, what both of us are
talking about here just to make it clear, is we
are talking about an encounter with the person of Jesus Christ,
you know, and just even as you were talking, just
being reminded of Saul of Tarsus, right? He tells us
that he was a Pharisee, a Pharisees, that he was
learned in all of the teachings of Glio, who was
(12:10):
this famous, you know, Jewish rabbi in Jerusalem. He learned
there at the seat, you know.
of their religious power. And yet, Paul, for all of
his knowledge, he is outside of the will of God.
He's ignorant concerning the plan of God through Jesus Messiah,
and it isn't until this encounter on the road to
Damascus that everything has changed for him. And then actually,
(12:31):
all the information that Paul has, of course, it's realigned,
but now it makes sense to him, you know, in
the light of this encounter. And so I think, you know,
we follow a God of encounter.
Not a god who is far off, but the God
of scripture is the God who we encounter, the God
who comes among us, the God who reveals Himself. And
(12:54):
so this is what we believe is actually the hope
of the world, and like,
Um, Mike said, this is the reason why we study.
This is the reason why we want to be clear
on the meaning of scripture, the, the, uh, meaning of
the kingdom of God and the good news, because we
want people to encounter the living God and have a
(13:14):
transformational experience through him. So,
Um, I just want to add one more thing. There
was this comment kind of about church history and theology
as well, just again, kind of, you know, depressing, and
I think it is true, you know, uh, reading church
history at times can be very depressing. But I think
(13:36):
rather than seeing it just as depressing, I think what
it should be for us, it should be humbling.
And uh there's lots of things that we can learn
from church history. We can see the patterns and ways
that God has worked, and I'll come back to that
in a minute. But I think as we look at
church history, we realize that they got a lot of
things right.
And they got a lot of things wrong at times.
(13:57):
But what we see is God's faithfulness to his people
through it all, and I think that this should really
make us humble, right?
We can see the same cycle. Wow, OK, the church
goes through kind of these things. Israel goes through these things.
The church is copying those things in in some ways,
and yet God is faithful to have a remnant, to
have those who are committed to him, to bring them through.
(14:19):
Do they know and see everything clearly? No, but God
is with them and leading them. And I think that
this is what church history can do for us. It
can um
You know, help affirm, like, this is what faithfulness looks like,
but it can also help be a mirror to ourselves, like, OK, like,
are we getting the same mistakes and then be humble. Uh,
there are areas that we are missing. We have blind
(14:43):
spots just like they did, and this is why we
always need to allow scripture to blow through our cultural windows, right?
And and to correct us and refresh us and bring
us in the way of Jesus.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yeah, and you know, like I, I think, obviously there's
something to be said for how we read church history
and how it's recorded and reported, but, you know, like
I think of a Martin Luther figure, um, and again, disclaimer,
very imperfect man, but, uh, clearly monumentally important whether you
like him or not. And here's an interesting thing about
(15:19):
Martin Luther, if you study his life, you read any
biographies about him.
On the one hand, he had like an apostolic life
where his life was threatened. He thought he was gonna die.
He literally carried around his will with him because he
knew in this reformation thing and daring to challenge the church,
which was merged with the state, which meant they could
kill you at any moment so bad where they had
(15:40):
to stage a kidnapping to keep him safe so he
could translate.
Bible, but ironically, when you read Luther II, he comes
across as one of the most happy, joyous people I've
ever read. So here's this guy who's who suffered with
physical ailments of various kinds. He writes about it a lot.
He complains about it. And then he's threatened with death
(16:00):
and all this kind of stuff, and yet he really
has
I think a biblical doctrine of creation and what we
call common grace, which I don't think a lot of
Christians really understand or embrace that there is still goodness
in God's world. Yes, it's fallen, but don't let that
give you the idea that there's no joy left in
(16:21):
this life.
that God is not a God of joy. The apostle
Paul is, is even often referred to as the apostle
of joy. But if you look at his life, obviously
very difficult life and at the same time, he was
somebody who just really understood and embraced the joy of
the gospel. And I think in our minds, those two
(16:41):
things have to be separated. Either you have a very hard,
difficult life or we take responsibility, we make eternity our priority.
And then you basically have a miserable life here and now,
you can't enjoy anything. Or if you enjoy life, you're
not being serious about God and the gospel. And I've
actually found as I've gotten older, that is an unfortunate
(17:02):
false dichotomy that I, I think hurts a lot of people.
The truth is, yes.
We're not going to find all we want in this world.
That is absolutely true. The joy we're looking for that
is perfect and eternal is not in this world, and
yet God, the God of joy, the God of the
apostle Paul Martin Luther, is the God of this world
that we are in. His creation, though corrupted by sin,
(17:25):
is still good and there is joy to be had
and embraced. And so I feel like we have to
be careful that we're balanced between those two realities.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah, absolutely. And that, yeah, it's so good just to remind.
Our listeners remind ourselves, uh, you know, creation is a
gift given to us by God to enjoy. And, you know,
one of the things that is pointed out in scripture,
whether this is the nations who do not recognize God
or it's even God's own people, is that they are
not thankful, right? They don't receive all that God has
(17:58):
given them, you know, family, relationship, provision, shelter.
Uh, amazing weather, the ocean, all, you know, all this
beauty and and provision, they don't receive it as gift, right?
It's entitlement, it's, it's these things, it's a burden, you know,
and these things, and, you know,
We are to see these as graces from God in
(18:21):
our lives. Actually, again, ways that God reveals himself. The
psalmist actually would say to this, actually the, the earth
is filled with evidence of God's steadfast love for creation.
You know, so that's the way that we should be
doing these things.
Very good, Christina, thank you for sending in your questions
(18:44):
through the pastor's perspective page on Kwave.com. 888-564-6173 is the
number to call us if you've got a question. We
would love to hear from you on this Monday afternoon. 888-564-6173.
Here's a question that Nancy sent in from Rancho Santa Margarita.
She writes, Good afternoon, pastors. God is often described as
(19:06):
using weather to make statements or to communicate with humanity.
Are we witnessing His divine power over nature at work today? Mike,
what do you say?
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Well, the God of the Old Testament is the God
of the New Testament. He's the god of today. So,
obviously he's sovereign over weather, but I would say even
even in the Bible, um, God is not
Directly causing every raindrop or whatever, he created the world,
he created it in such a way. For example, we
talk about natural laws and yes, it's true, he's he's
(19:40):
sustaining all things by the word of his power, so
he's presently active in the world. But again, why do
we have these patterns? Why are things predictable if God
were just, you know, kind of randomly
Controlling the weather in quote unquote, what some might call
a miraculous way, then it would be completely unpredictable. So
the truth is, God seems to have created the world,
including the weather in such a way that there are
(20:02):
predictable patterns. And I'm not against the idea that God
can sort of directly cause something, right? The problem
Though, is we don't have biblical revelation today to interpret that,
whereas obviously in the Bible when there's a storm sent
for Jonah, right, we're not meant to go, Oh, you just,
(20:25):
you know, that was an accident, that was a coincidence. No,
it actually said God sent it, right? Like God sent
that storm to do exactly what it did.
Now, the problem is, and I remember this years ago,
and you guys might remember this, I think New Orleans
was hit with a hurricane and it was flooded, and
I can't remember the famous TV preacher that said it's
(20:45):
God's judgment on the people of New Orleans and all
that kind of stuff. And I thought that was a
very unwise thing to say because the truth is, in
a fallen world.
Even such weather happens to good, quote unquote good people,
and by that I mean faithful Jesus followers. What about
Jesus followers in other parts of the world where they're
(21:06):
loving Jesus? How about this last weekend, where Christians were
at a camp in Texas, Christians, they're there, youth are there,
and they're, I mean, you know what I'm saying? So to,
without biblical warrant, without special revelation.
Uh, I think it's very foolish for us to make
proclamations that, oh, this particular storm in this thing. So
(21:28):
I believe there's God set the world in motion. He
set the weather so that there's predictable and honestly, in
a fallen world, things happen earthquakes, pestilences, all that, and
that's not punishing people.
Every single time. That's a part of the general curse
that we see in Genesis 3. It's not a specific
curse upon a specific person or a group for a
(21:50):
specific sin. And in the case that God is doing that,
could he do that? Yes, but unfortunately, I don't have
biblical revelation to speak for God on that matter.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
I was reading, uh, actually this morning, Psalm 19.
And, you know, what a, a beautiful passage of scripture
that actually combines general revelation with special revelation, right? All
the ways that God actually is speaking, you know, in
the first verse is, the heavens declare the glory of God,
the skies proclaimed the work of his hands, and then
(22:23):
this is just beautiful. Day after day, they pour forth speech,
night after night.
Yet they use no words. And so there's no language
that can't hear them, right? Because they're not using words,
it's these pictures to us of God's power, of his creativity,
of his love. They're speaking to us. And so I would,
(22:44):
I think another way that scripture would answer this question
is saying, yes, creation witnesses God's divine power.
It witnesses his care, his steadfast love and faithfulness to humans,
to the world he created. Are we listening? You know,
so sometimes like, right, we want to use the signs
(23:05):
to read the tea leaves kind of thing, you know, like,
give us uh the particulars. What does this sign mean?
And scripture is already spoken to us what it means.
It means God is powerful.
It means that God is caring, it means that he
is present. It means again, that he is the speaking,
revealing God, revealing Himself to us. And so the question,
(23:30):
I think, would be, are we listening to what scripture
has already revealed uh about how God speaks to us
in the world. There's a practice that Christians have have
practiced for many, many years, and it's actually called Vizio divina,
a holy seeing.
And the practice is actually just to sit in nature
and just to take in, or you can, you know,
you can actually look at basically anything, could be a painting, scripture,
(23:53):
a scene, whatever it might be, but just to take
it in and to listen to the ways that God
might want to speak. And so we've done this actually
a number of times as a staff, uh, we've gone
down to the beach and we just sat on the shore.
And we just quiet ourselves long enough to listen, you know,
and for some, you know, we're listening to the waves
and the way that they, you know, come in, and
(24:13):
the way that they go out, and just the consistency
of the tide, you know, people have, you know, it's
reminding them of things that scripture has said about God's faithfulness,
or about, you know, the way that he washed.
He is away our sin, he's cast them into the
depths of the sea, just taken in nature to remind
us of the things that God has revealed about himself.
(24:34):
And we can actually find this all throughout the Psalms.
And I think that this is actually a really wonderful
practice for uh Christians to engage in, because unfortunately,
Uh, we can relegate God's revelation only to scripture.
But I think that that's to get it the wrong
way around. I remember having this conversation with my son
(24:55):
years ago, and he and he was asking me, you know,
it's just
Just a simple question, but he's like, I don't understand
why I have to read the Bible. And he said this,
can't God speak to me anywhere?
Through anything? And I, I love just the sincerity of
his question. Of course, he's grown up in a Christian home,
you know, where we talk about Jesus all the time,
where we talk about, you know, the God of the
(25:16):
Bible all the time, and what it means to follow him.
And so, to help him understand the importance of scripture,
I said, OK, yes, son, God can speak to you
through anything, and we actually believe that God is speaking
all the time. He speaks through people, he speaks through
his creation, he can speak through a song, a movie,
all these things, right?
(25:37):
But how do we know his voice?
And the only way we can actually know that it
is the voice of God is because of this revealed
word of God. And I think that this is why
scripture is so important in the life of the believer.
What we need to do is we need to tune
(25:58):
our ear to know the voice of the Lord. And
we think about even in the New Testament where Jesus
says this, it's so powerful, my sheep know my voice.
This is such a distinct mark of the people of God.
We know the voice of the Lord, we know the
voice of Jesus. And once we know the voice, we
(26:20):
can actually discern God speaking everywhere, anywhere, through a conversation
with a friend, through, you know, we've talked about this on,
you know, the show before, but through film, through music,
through art, through creation, through even food.
God can speak to us. Oh, he's given us these
taste buds to to enjoy this. Why? Because God is
(26:44):
so good. He's so kind, right? So, I think that
that's just something that we need to remember. Scripture is
actually revealed to us the way that God speaks, and
how to discern the voice of the Lord. Are we listening? question.
Yeah, Mike.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Uh, amen to that. I mean, I, I think again,
because some people see the Bible as sort of killing
a personal dynamic relationship with God and hearing about like
you said, it's actually the opposite, you know, the Bible
actually tunes our ear and helps us to know whether
God is speaking to us.
(27:23):
Out in creation, through other people, etc. So quite ironically,
if you want to really hear God apart from the Bible,
you need to be in the Bible. It's, it's the
Bible that tells you whether something is of God or
it's not, because as much as I, I think it's
wonderful and I want to hear from.
God, you know, in my daily life and making decisions, right,
(27:45):
about things that there's no chapter and verse for this
specific decision, you know, which person should you marry? I
get asked that a lot, right? And there's no, there's
typically no verse, you know, with a, with a modern
American name anyway, and where it's like, oh yeah, marry
so and so. So obviously, you, but you've been a
Christian wants to hear the voice of the Lord, and again,
the Bible is shaping you, you're hearing God's voice, you're
(28:08):
also hearing his heart.
And you're being shaped and you're becoming more like Him.
You're beginning to desire the things that God desires. You're
beginning to abhor the things that he abhors, and you're
becoming more like Him, and that actually frees you to
do what you are saying, to really see God out
work in the world. So I, you know, I find
it strange for some people that are, you know, pointing
(28:29):
to the Bible, but then they feel like they can't,
they can't see.
God working anywhere else, don't hear him anywhere else, and I,
I find it quite ironic because I see the opposite.
The more I'm in the scriptures, the more I'm reading
the Bible, the more I understand it and meditate over
it and live it out, I'm seeing and hearing God
all over the place.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Yeah, I think about how CS Lewis had that, you know,
famous line, I think it's from Christianity, but he says.
I believe in Christianity as I believe in the sun,
not not just because I see it, but by it
I see everything else. I think that that's a great
way to understand like scripture is almost a set of
lenses through which we see the world. And as we
(29:09):
look through the eyes of scripture, we see the world
the way it is meant to be seen.
Nancy, thank you for sending in your question online, and
we're gonna go to break now and when we come back,
we'll have more of your questions. You can call in
and ask them at 888-564-6173. That's the best way to
get an answer today. Or if you don't need an
(29:30):
answer right away, you can send your question in online
through Facebook, Instagram, or through our website, Kwave.com.
But the best way to get an answer is to
call us right now till 4 o'clock, 888-564-6173 is our number.
We've got Char Broderson from Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa and
Mike Chaddick from Image Church in San Juan Capistrano. 888-564-6173
(29:54):
is that number, and you can grab an open line
right now and we'll talk to you on the other
side of the break.
(30:21):
888-564-6173 is the number to call us today here on
Pastor's Perspective. I'm Brian Perez here with Char Broderson and
Mike Chaddick, and we would love to
Have a chance to answer the question that you have
for us today. Maybe you heard something at church over
the weekend, or you heard something here on this radio
program or you saw something on YouTube. Who knows? And
(30:42):
you're wondering, uh, how to make sense of it all
from a Christian point of view. So give us a
call at 888-564-6173.
Marian sent this in from Rancho Cucamonga. She asks in
Genesis 11:6 through 8, Was there just one race and
one language at that time? And then God changed the
language and created different races and scattered them all over
(31:04):
the earth so they wouldn't come together against Him again. Char,
what do you say to Marian?
Yeah, I mean the um question about racism is a
really interesting question, like, where does this come from, you know,
and we often talk about the human race or these,
you know, the different races, there's a black race and
the white race, and, you know, the Hispanic race and
And this is actually a human construct or a cultural construct, right? Um,
(31:28):
the teaching of the Bible is that there is only
one race, this is the human race, and then in
the beginning, God created two human beings in his image,
and that all human beings have come from them. And
of course, there's debate about how this happened in these things,
but this is the clear teaching of scripture. There is
one race, the human race, but
(31:51):
We recognize that there are different ethnicities, different tribes, the
Bible puts it this way, tribes, tongues, nations, peoples and languages, right?
So there's kind of these different categories, kind of as
we break down, you know, dis uh certain areas of
the world and, you know, continents and then regions and
these types of things that we understand that there are
(32:12):
these ethnicities that come out of those things.
Now, the interesting thing about Genesis chapter 11, is that
God had given a mandate to humanity back in the garden,
that they were to be fruitful, they were to multiply,
and they were to fill the whole earth. They were
to spread God's reign, his presence all throughout the whole
of creation, and of course, the humans rebelled against that.
(32:35):
And here in the pages of Genesis chapter 11, we
actually see a continuation of that rebellion.
God is given a decree, but then it says that
the whole world came together. So instead of this scattering,
filling the whole earth, they come together as one, and basically,
God says, you know, they're gonna accomplish whatever they set
(32:58):
out to do. And so, what we understand is what
happens at Babel is God basically bringing his project to
send humanity throughout the whole earth back on track. He
Correcting this with this judgment that he confuses their language,
and then, of course, because they're confused, they spread out
(33:20):
from there to the other surrounding regions, and then of course,
you know, eventually populate the whole earth, even Antarctica, even Antarctica. Mike.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Yeah, just to reaffirm what Char said, yeah, race is
a modern construct. It's not a, it's not a biblical framework.
It's not a biblical concept. So to the, to the question,
I think yes, there was one civilization. It appears at
that time they shared a culture, they shared a common language, right,
because of course the curses that that would be broken up,
(33:54):
that they would now form different rivaling.
Civilizations, they would develop various languages and cultural practices and beliefs,
and they would be at war with each other. And
what's interesting is, through Jesus, the resurrection and the outpouring
of the Spirit of Pentecost, the first sort of miracle
(34:15):
of Pentecost is the overcome.
of those languages, those diverse languages of Babel, so that
God is sort of reversing the curse of Babel, and
he's gathering people from every tribe, tongue, and nation into
the people of God. And of course, like Paul says
in Acts 17, as he's talking to the Athenians, human
(34:36):
beings are made from
One blood. We all come from one place, so any
sort of theology or philosophy or social theory that pits
people groups against people groups as though one is inherently
inferior or superior to another is heretical. It's an unbiblical concept.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Very good, Mary, and thank you for sending in your
question through the Kwave.com Pastor's perspective page. And now we're
going to go to the phones, 888-564-6173 is the number
to call. Chris hung up, so we're gonna talk to
George in Temecula listening on FM 107.9K wave. Hey George,
what's your question for us today?
(35:21):
Hello, so I have a question, uh, I just wants
you guys' perspective, you know, um, I guess.
I was wondering
Cause I saw a video on it and it's like
the areas that you're tempted in.
Or you know, or the sin that you're tempted in.
For example, let's say you're tempted in a lot and
(35:43):
lust and and you overcome that through faith in Jesus,
is that where you're calling is to, to like perhaps
the enemy was trying to prevent.
You from having a, a deep, uh, intimacy with, with,
with someone and and covenant and healing, or that's just
one example, you know, how about, you know, like smoking,
(36:05):
overcoming an addiction of smoking like perhaps you were the
enemy was trying to stop you from.
Or trying to damage your lungs and trying to stop
you from speaking up about the word of God, or,
you know, overcoming these, these things. Was that, is that
your calling, you know, it kind of. Yeah, interesting. Sure,
what do you say? Yeah, you know, scripture doesn't like
(36:29):
tell us the specifics of our calling, and what I
mean by that is, I think sometimes this is the
kind of clarity that we're looking for, like, we want details, right?
Like we want to know what lane we're supposed to
run in, you know, and, and we want, you know, confirmation, right?
And rather what scripture does is it gives us the
person of Jesus Christ.
(36:49):
And it says be his disciple, be with him, become
like him, do what he does. Follow him, and as
you follow Jesus, discover how Jesus's life is supposed to
be lived through your life. So your opportunities, um, your responsibilities,
what would Jesus do if he had your life? That's
what we're supposed to do. That is actually the calling
(37:10):
of God on our lives is to become like Jesus.
And then part of the adventure, the partnership where, where,
you know, God kind of calls our own participation is like, OK,
discovering what that looks like, you know, uh, where is
God calling me to do that? Is it, you know,
as you said, you know, my story might be that
(37:32):
I struggled with addiction, and Paul says,
You know, sometimes that, you know, not sometimes, but God
actually uses the trials and troubles of our lives as
we come through those, he uses those to help others,
to give them comfort, right? And the affliction that they're experiencing.
And so for many people who have come through, you know,
addiction and and um really seen victory in these things,
(37:55):
they feel this burden for others to help them. That's
a beautiful thing. That's a very redemptive um work that
God does in our lives, but it's actually not necessarily
the way it always happens. And I think for us,
that's where we just have to be sensitive to the
spirit of God.
We have to be very honest about kind of who
(38:17):
we are and the gifts and abilities that God has
given us. Mike, I know you've mentioned a few times
that for you, like, that was not on the table, right?
To go back to your friends and your lifestyle early
on in your walk with Jesus, it wasn't safe for you.
You know, to do that. And so, you know, I
would say, man, like, if you're in an area of
your life where you are still wrestling with these things,
(38:39):
I don't think the call of God on your life
is to go back to those things now. And we've
actually seen many people that, I think, try to do that,
and it ends up holding them back into those patterns. So,
I think, well, not I think, I know the plan
of God for all of us, the call of God
for all of us, is to follow Jesus, to be
(38:59):
a disciple.
And that as we follow Jesus, we'll discover the specifics
of how we are to do that, you know, barista
or plumber, CEO, pastor, you know, whatever that might be, right? Um,
that's the exciting part, that's the adventure, discovering how God
is calling us or where God is calling us to
(39:21):
follow in the way of Jesus. Yeah, Mike.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Yeah, I, I agree with Char. I mean, I, I
think certainly it can be something like Satan's trying to
get somebody to derail a specific one. I think it
can be that, but again, I, I don't think uh
it's always that way, maybe many times it's not. And
I think, you know, again, the main problem with sin,
because a lot of times we focus on calling in
(39:45):
the sense of what am I supposed to do.
But the most important thing is to know Him, and
sin interrupts our relationship to Jesus, not his relationship to us.
He's committed, he's eternally invested in us through his own blood,
but for us, the truth is if we're harboring sin
in our lives, then we're not having that close fellowship
(40:09):
with Jesus that we can. That's the worst thing about it.
It's not so much, oh gosh, this sin's keeping me
from
Speaking over here or, you know, building this thing over
here or whatever. I mean, and that matters, that's important.
But I do think sometimes we look at like what
we're gonna do.
As like being the most important what we're gonna do
for God, and I think really, um, that's even how
(40:30):
some people in ministry get into trouble. They, they start
thinking about what their specific calling is, is the most
important thing in the world when the truth is, the
most important thing in the world for them is the
same for every other believer, and that is to know
Jesus Christ and Him crucified. And so sin gets in
the way of that, if it happens to be.
A sin where, um, you know, to your point, I
(40:51):
do think that you can do that. I've seen it,
I think, in people's lives where their particular quote unquote
besetting sin was something that really hindered them from doing
the particular thing.
You know, they were called to do. But again, other
times I don't think it equates to that, but at
the same time, we shouldn't take it any less serious
because it's all that hinders our our walk with God,
(41:14):
and that's the most important thing in the world. Yeah,
Speaker 1 (41:17):
and I, I, I do like what George said just
about like this idea though that like we use these
things um that
God has given us and we twist them. You know,
this is part of uh what the scripture calls sin, right?
We actually have iniquity, which is an inner twistedness, and
so we take the good things that God has given
us and we twist them into selfish things, we turn
(41:38):
them in on themselves. We use them in ways that
God did not intend us to, you know, so with
our mouths, we put down and
We curse, and we, you know, keep people out, and
God has actually given us mouths to praise him, to
glorify him, to bless, and to encourage others. And this
is actually how Paul the Apostle will constantly direct the
(42:00):
speech of God's people, or James will correct and redirect
the speech of God's people. So I do think there
is something
There for us to think about, like, what Jesus wants
to do as we follow him, is he wants to
heal and redirect all the twisted ways that we use
our bodies, and we use the gifts and abilities that
God has given us for ourselves, or to do harm,
(42:23):
or to do what is selfish, and he wants to
direct them in a way that is life-giving, that is
sacrificial in the way of Jesus, in a way that
glorifies God.
George, does this help you?
Yes, it does. Thank you. Amen. All right, man, thank
you for calling us today here on Pastor's Perspective. And look,
Chris called back. Thank you, Chris. 888-564-6173. What is your
(42:48):
question for us today? Uh, I'd like to know how
do I know that I'm saved? And why do you
ask this question, Chris?
Uh, because I'm at kind of a, a point right
now where I'm just questioning my salvation. OK. Is it
because you're falling into the same sins over and over again, or,
or why are you questioning?
(43:09):
Uh, I'm not sure. I'm also, uh, mentally ill, so.
Uh, OK. Yeah. Sure.
Yeah, Chris, you know, the Bible reveals that salvation is
found in Jesus. And if we go back to the
beginning of the story, which I often like to do,
(43:32):
is we need to understand that, you know, God created
human beings um in his image.
Um, to be near him, to be his friends, to
be his partners, and he wanted to work with humans
to spread his reign, his kingdom, all the way to
the ends of the earth. But the Bible says that humans,
Adam and Eve, they actually rejected God, and they listened to,
(43:55):
you know, the devil in the in the beginning, and
they went with him and the way that he was
offering them um this opportunity to rule and to have power.
And so, what we need to understand is at the
very beginning of of humanity's story, everything kind of goes
off the rails.
And the rest of the Bible is telling us how
God is going to bring humanity back to himself, to
(44:18):
bear his image, to be his friends and be his partners,
and to work with him to spread his kingdom to
the ends of the earth. And at the climax of
the story of the Bible, Jesus of Nazareth comes on
the scene, and he begins to do all the same
things that God, uh, who is revealed.
(44:39):
And the Old Testament did. He can feed the multitudes
out of nothing. He can command the wind and the waves,
he can raise the dead. He can heal any sickness
or disease. And what the story of Jesus is telling
us is that the God who made us, the God
who created us to be his friends and to be
(45:00):
his partners and to work with him, has actually come
to rescue us.
And he did this by going to the cross, and
there at the cross, Jesus concentrates all of the evil
and darkness and sin in the world, the evil of
the spiritual realm, but also the evil of human beings,
and the sin that we've committed to one another. And
(45:21):
the Bible says that Jesus killed all of that in
his own body, so that human beings could come back
to God, could be
Remade in his image, could be partners and friends with
God again, and then join him in his project to
reclaim the world as his kingdom.
And so we believe that we are saved, we are
(45:45):
redeemed only by trusting in Jesus, recognizing that he is
the only answer to humanity's problem. He's the only way
we can come back to God. He's the only way
that we can discover our true identity and purpose in
this world.
And so the way that we are saved is by
trusting in Jesus, and the way we know that we're
(46:07):
saved is by continuing to follow Jesus. That's how we know. So,
I would just say to you, Chris, you know, I
would ask you, are you trusting in Jesus? Are you
following him?
Uh, yeah, I think I am. Yeah, well, then I
would encourage you to keep doing that, and also Chris,
(46:28):
you know, I would encourage you, if you don't already,
to surround yourself with friends who are also following Jesus,
that can remind you of what it means to be
saved by Jesus, what it means to follow Jesus, and
can encourage you um in your discipleship to Jesus. Mike.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
Yeah, I think that's great, and, you know, it's as
simple as what Paul says in Romans 10:9. If you
confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe
in your heart,
That God has raised him from the dead, you will
be saved. That's what Paul says. That's the authority of
the word of God. And I'd say, you know, but
(47:09):
we can always come back and wrestle with assurance, though, right?
And I think that's your, your question. And I think
a great illustration of this comes from the story of Abraham.
In Genesis chapter 12, we, Abraham first gets a promise,
and it says Abraham believed God and God accredited to
him as righteousness. But
(47:30):
Abraham is wrestling in a sense with your question. Well,
how do I know?
And that's where the covenant comes in in Genesis 15.
Abraham says, But sovereign Lord, how will I know? Well,
wait a minute, Abraham. God already promised you, we spoke
to you, you responded, You're good. Things are good. Why
are you wrestling? It's because we have a need to know. We,
(47:51):
we need some sort of objective symbol or something that
points to us that, yes, what we believe has happened
has actually happened, and that's what the
of the covenant is for, and Christians have the sign
of the covenant as well. And I think that's why
even today where, you know, we have many non-denominational low
church traditions and some of them from what I've been told,
(48:13):
kind of, you know, look low on baptism and communion
and all that, but that's actually what this is for.
These are signs of the covenant.
You know, and so I would ask somebody, uh, an
important follow-up is, have you been baptized? And, and don't
get me wrong, I'm not saying water baptism saves you.
I don't believe that, but what I'm saying is it's
(48:34):
a sign of the covenant. It's about assurance.
And so one of the things you can do when
you wake up on a given day and you're like,
I'm not sure, I'm saved, what's going on. You can
look back to that day when you made that profession
of faith, you took that step of faith. Jesus ordered
his followers to those who have trusted in Him, right?
(48:54):
Cause it wasn't like be baptized, then you're saying, No, no.
You believe on the Lord.
Jesus Christ, that's number one. And if you've done that,
your first act of obedience that identifies you as a
member of that covenant that you can use as an
objective marker is water baptism. You are now in the fellowship.
You are a part of the community of God's people,
(49:14):
and if you wake up on a given day and say,
oh gosh, I don't know, you can look back at
that day. And for those that have been in Christ
for many years, this is what
Holy communion is. You're coming back. It's a vow renewal ceremony.
You're coming back over and over to the signs of
the covenant that I am indeed sealed by the blood
of Jesus Christ, and we need to be reminded of that.
(49:37):
That's why we do it every week at our church.
It's not just, you know, we some tradition or whatever, no.
A theological reason we believe people wrestle with assurance. We
believe Satan wants people to doubt their salvation. We believe
that gets them to operate not in the spirit, but
in the flesh when you're sitting there doubting constantly whether
I'm even in the faith or whatever. And to give
(49:58):
it an analogy, you know, there's
When you get married, there's some days, and, and again,
I love my wife, and she loves me, but there
can be days where, you know, you're married and you
wake up like, gosh, you know, this whole, am I,
am I married? Like, what's going on? And I can
look down at this ring on my finger.
(50:18):
And it's a sign of the covenant. It reminds me
that I am a wedded man. I am a married man.
I am sealed by this, and I find too many people,
they go by their feelings, even in marriage, right? Oh gosh,
I don't feel married. I've had people tell me that
in marital counseling. They're like, Oh, I don't really feel
married anymore. I don't feel like this is, it's like, well,
(50:39):
wait a minute, what is that on your finger?
Oh well, well, it's a ring. Why'd you give it? Well,
it was part of the wedding ceremony. We, we made vows.
We made, made a covenant. Oh, you did. Well then
you're married and you operate according to that promise, to
that objective covenant, and that's the same thing that God
has given us in baptism and holy communion.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
Chris, thanks for your phone call today on Pastor's Perspective.
Now we'll talk to Lee in Corona listening on FM
107.9 K wave. Hi Lee, what's your question for us today?
Good morning. Good, good afternoon, brothers. How are you doing?
Speaker 2 (51:16):
Doing great. Good. How are you?
Speaker 1 (51:18):
I'm doing good. I'm an old timer.
Speaker 2 (51:20):
I've been listening to you to uh K Wa since
Chuck Smith's days and, uh.
I'm just trying to get my head around. I'm trying
to understand, you know, trying to get a better understanding
like so many people of what happened in Texas, brother,
kind of from your perspective and and pray for the people,
(51:42):
but my heart I'm just broken. I, you know, I'm on, I,
I got daughters. I can't even imagine what people are
going through. Can you give your perspective, brothers, on good
and evil, on God, so.
You know, that God Almighty, he's all powerful. And uh
one thing Pastor Chuck would always say, never trade what
we know for what. Yes, that's right. Brothers, if you
(52:04):
guys can really kinda give your thoughts on it, you know,
and uh maybe pray for everybody.
Speaker 1 (52:11):
I know a lot of people are grappling with that
issue and a lot of people, you know, believers as well,
you know.
Yeah, for sure, yeah.
Mike
Speaker 2 (52:21):
Yeah, it's, I mean, like you said, I mean, it's,
it's tragic, it's heartbreaking, it's unbelievable, and
You know, to make matters worse, I mean, this happens
all around the world every day. We just don't always
hear about it. We're hearing about it more because of
the internet and things like that. Obviously, this, if you're
an American, this hits closer to home. If you're a parent,
(52:44):
this hits closer to home, these were youth, and the youth,
I mean, if you're a Christian, right, cause you're not
talking about, oh, well, these were pagans, they were, they
were getting the no, no, these were not, these were
children of Christian parents at a Christian youth camp and
they died.
Suddenly and unexpectedly, and, you know, this goes back to
what I was saying earlier, that's why I think it's
(53:06):
so dangerous.
To start seeing every flood, every earthquake, every accident is
God's judgment. No, if, if we want to say it's
judgment at all, it's simply the judgment of Genesis 3.
The world has been cursed and it is, it's corrupting.
The Bible actually says the earth itself is, is groaning out. It's,
(53:26):
it's falling apart. It's, it's in decay and is a
part of that, living in a fallen world where man
is mortal, it's appointed once for a man to die.
It's not a matter of if but when.
And many times, and again, if you think about it,
in one sense, death is always tragic. I mean, we're
so accustomed to death when somebody who's 90 or 100 dies,
we go, oh yeah, that's just normal. Actually, the biblical worldviews,
(53:48):
that's not normal either. We were not meant to die.
The only reason death is in the world from a
biblical worldview is sin. Death came through sin. And so
I think it's a reminder that we live in this
world and yes, it is always more.
Particularly tragic when it involves, I think young people, right?
(54:12):
They haven't lived life, they haven't become adults, they haven't
gotten married. They haven't had children, that kind of thing.
And so it feels more tragic, but the truth is
every death is tragic. That that that's the truth of it.
And God has done something about it in Jesus Christ.
He not only died to reconcile us to God, but
to give us
Resurrection and new earth. That's the end of the Bible.
(54:35):
We will live in a body and a world that
will not know such catastrophes ever again. That's the gospel message.
And so I think one way we can look at
it and CS Lewis's words, when we see something like that,
that just seems so wrong, seems so unfair, is to
remember that in eternity, God will make right.
(54:56):
The wrongs of time. And in these areas of mystery.
Why did this person die suddenly with no warning to
their family? They died on the, I mean, just to me, like,
I was talking to my son who's only been driving
for a couple of years now, and we were driving
to church, and he says to me, Dad, isn't it
so weird? If someone just turns the wheel ever so slightly,
we're on Ortega Highway, which we don't know is one
(55:18):
of the most dangerous highways in California.
If someone just turns the wheel, they're just, they go
to sip of coffee, they, you know, just kind of whatever, boom,
that's a head-on collision and you're gone and it's happened
to so many people on that same highway and, and
it's like, and I recognize it could happen to me too,
you know, I'm not, I'm not special in the sense
(55:40):
that I deserve to not get in an accident or
anything else. It's a part of the world we live in,
and I commit, like you said, and that's one of
my favorite sayings of Pastor Chuck, never give up.
What you know for what you don't know. I don't
need the specifics of why this person that place, but
I understand the ultimate reason for sure,
Speaker 1 (55:59):
Char, Mike, thank you for joining us today on Pastor's Perspective, everybody.
We will be back tomorrow. God bless.
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez,
and we are here live until 4 o'clock this afternoon
to answer the questions you have about the Bible, the
Christian faith, just about anything that's on your mind. We
can try to answer it here. 888-564-6173 is the number
to call. If you're watching on Facebook, YouTube, or Instagram,
(00:35):
thank you for watching. You can call in too. We
like when you guys participate with us here on the.
888-564-6173 is that number to call. And answering your questions today,
we've got the lead pastor of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa
in Southern California, Char Broderson. How's it going, Char? It's
going well, Brian. How are you? Good, man. Thanks for
coming in today. Great to have you on. Mike Chaddick
(00:57):
is joining us too. He's the senior pastor of Image
Church in San Juan Capistrano, California. How are you doing, Mike?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I'm doing wonderful. Great to be here today, guys. Yeah,
Speaker 1 (01:08):
thanks for joining us. Now, you can also send in
your questions online, but we prefer to speak with you.
So 888-564-6173 is that number once again. The way you
can get your question to us online is by going
to the pastor's perspective Facebook and using Messenger to get
your question to us, or on the pastor's perspective Instagram
(01:28):
by DMing us, or you can go to Kwave.com, look
for the
Master's perspective page or scan the QR code if you're
watching on Facebook, YouTube, or Instagram, that'll take you to
that page, and there's a form there that you can
fill out and get your question to us. And that's
what Christina did. She's in Laguna Hills, and she writes,
I've begun studying apologetics two years ago, and while I
(01:51):
love the pursuit of theological knowledge, I can't shake the
feeling that the more I study, the more miserable I
feel in my spiritual walk.
Excuse me, the more miserable I feel in my spiritual walk,
because most people will not be swayed toward Jesus, no
matter how much information there is or how cogent a
theological argument is. The whole pursuit feels ultimately futile in
(02:13):
this world. Secondly, the more I study church history and theologians,
the more guilty I feel for seeking happiness in life
as a Christian.
It feels like if ministry and misery go hand in
hand because we have to focus on the brokenness of
this world and of the church. How do you overcome
this and how can I trudge forward? Char, what do
(02:33):
you tell Christina?
Yeah, I mean, that's interesting, um.
You know, just the, the more one studies, um, you know,
kind of gets more and more, I guess, disillusioned by
um the state of the world and um kind of the,
I guess the tools that we have in apologetics and
(02:54):
these things. I, I do think there is something to
what um Christina is saying, and and what I mean
by that is, I think if we, if we believe
that it is all up to us.
And our theological arguments or, you know, our, our logical reasoning, um,
(03:14):
that this is how people are going to be convinced
of the truth. I do think that that is a
hopeless state for the world. But what we need to
remember is in the story of the Bible, redemption or
salvation is God's work. It's God's mission.
That he is about and completely committed to, so much
so that he sends his one and only son, his
(03:37):
most prized possession. He, God comes, uh, the scriptures speak
himself and accomplishes redemption. He is so committed to it,
and he has invited us into that work.
And so, you know, I think if we're only thinking
about it being up to us and our theological arguments
and these things, yeah, that that's pretty hopeless. But if
(03:57):
we understand that this is God's work and that he
is a God who is pursuing people, uh, redeeming people,
then there's actually a lot of hope for us. There's
a lot of hope for the, the state of the world. Uh,
it's interesting actually, when you um study kind of the
Statistics, I guess, behind, you know, what has brought people
(04:18):
into the Christian faith, what causes people to believe, uh,
you rarely find that it is actually, uh, theological arguments
or apologetics. It doesn't mean that these aren't important and
that these aren't used at times, but these are downstream
from what actually brings people into the faith. And even
more recently, what has been, um,
(04:41):
You know, basically documented, is that people come to the
faith because of a community of God's people that actually
put God's character and God's kingdom on display. And Jesus
actually says this in the sermon on the Mount, right?
He speaks to the disciples and says, you people are
the light of the world. A city that is set
(05:03):
on a hill cannot be hidden. Therefore, let your light
shine before people, that they may see your good works
and glorify your Father in heaven.
See, God's people are actually the main way, the way
that we live together, the way that we love one another,
that God is witnessed in this world. We are like
this light in the darkness that shows the way, that
(05:25):
gives clarity, that gives sight to the world, about the
way things should be, the way things can be under
the reign of God. And I think, you know, I,
I guess what I'm trying to say is,
If we're only pursuing apologetics and theological arguments and believing
that this is what's going to convince people, I think
the scripture would actually direct us towards the pursuit of
(05:48):
the character of Jesus through discipleship, to live out of
the way of God's kingdom, and this will be the
way that people are brought in to the kingdom of God.
And so I think that that's really where our focus
and where the scriptures actually focus us as the people
of God. And again, it doesn't mean
That we aren't concerned about doctrine. It doesn't mean that
(06:11):
we aren't concerned to defend the faith against false idols
and ideologies and these things, but first and foremost, that
is not the call of God's people. The call of
God's people is uh to follow in the way of
Jesus and to practice the way of God's kingdom as
we live with one another. Mike, what would you say?
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Yeah, that was a great answer, and, and one thing
just to encourage Christina with, she's actually affirming what scripture
already told us about her predicament.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 actually says with much learning comes much vexation
and with much knowledge, much grief. So that's the creatures
(06:51):
sort of counsel, kind of a heads up about knowledge
in this world, and he's not saying it's a bad thing,
it's just, to be honest, the more you know, there
can be so much more disappointment. And to be honest,
another thing, and I'm in charge, you've probably encountered this too.
The more I study, yes, I get some answers, but
then I actually tend to end up getting more questions.
(07:12):
Then I got answers. So like if your pursuit is just, oh,
I want to know everything. I want certainty about every
possible thing, man, if you really pour yourself into the studying,
you're actually going to find the opposite. You're gonna find, wow,
I have more questions now than I started.
And that's not to say we're being agnostic, like, oh,
you know, you can't learn real genuine knowledge. No, you can,
(07:35):
but the irony is, if you really want to feel
like you know everything, the best thing to do is
not study, because then you can kind of limit yourself,
you can limit your
Your belief in what's possible to know and you can feel,
oh man, like just go the rest of your life
not learning, believe you, you know it all, you've been
done it all, you can't possibly learn and you'll really
be confident, right? The scary thing is, the more you study,
(07:59):
The more you read, the more you engage with other people,
including Christians from other traditions, the more you realize, wow, I,
there's so much I actually don't know. Well, while acknowledging, yes,
I've learned, I'm thankful for that at the same time,
I acknowledge there's more out there. And like to what
Char was saying, I mean, God has diverse ways of
(08:20):
reaching people, right? I mean, all kinds of ways. So,
you know,
God can use a book or knowledge, for example, the
first person off my head was Chuck Colson, right? So
if you hear Chuck Colson's conversion story where he was
working for the Nixon administration, he got put in prison,
and he would say that he came to faith through
(08:41):
reading a book, Mere Christianity by CS Lewis. However, so
first of all, I'd want to say yes, sometimes information.
Um, can't God can use that, right? However, if you
kind of even examine his well, wait a minute, but
it was also your circumstances, right? God had to bring
you low, right? He had to bring you to a
place before that information even meant anything to you. Like,
(09:04):
do you think the reading mirror Christianity five years before
going to prison?
Would have had the same impact? Probably not. It pro
it probably wouldn't have. Um, I think relationships are so important,
like studying how CS Lewis himself came to faith, you know,
it wasn't like he read one book or he just
read the Bible one time or or had one it
(09:26):
was through many, many years and a long journey going
through life, living out his own philosophy that he had
come up with, having a long-term friendship with a
fellow believer JR Tolkien, in particular, having many conversations with
him and then having encounters where sometimes in the course
of a conversation, a light bulb went off, but then
(09:47):
there was a time where I think he recalls, sure,
you might know this, he recalls an epiphany where he
goes to a zoo or something and he says, I
went up to that zoo, a non-believer, I walked away
a believer in God. He he had some epiphany revelation,
inspiration and recognized, oh my gosh.
And then to affirm your point toar about the importance
of community, I'm reminded of St. Augustine's famous statement, I
(10:11):
would not have known God as my father unless I
had known the church is my mother. And what he
meant by that is that the church is the hermeneutic
of the gospel. The church embodies truth and so I
think it's very important, and I think maybe to
Two ideas that we can link together helps us remember
this is embodied truth. It's not just giving people little pamphlets,
(10:35):
throwing them out or throwing out bits of information. It's
really embodying that truth. And yes, that'll come out perhaps
in a book or a pamphlet or something, but many
times it's as you live out the truth of the gospel,
as you love people, and
As you trust in the sovereignty and providence of God,
that like Chuck Colson, the reality is many of us
(10:56):
had to go through whatever we had to go through
before the stuff we heard a million times hit us,
as it were, for the first time in such a
way that we responded in faith. So we have good courage, Christina,
and everyone else out there. God is working. Oh, and
if I can make a long, long story longer lasting,
Paul said to Timothy, study to show yourself approved to.
(11:20):
God
Sometimes I think we're studying, oh, I want to prove
myself to people. I want to show how much I know. Oh,
I'm going to win them in. Really, the number one
reason I study, yes, I hope people are blessed by it.
It's to show myself approved unto God. It's about my
walk with God. The reason I keep learning and why
I hope I never stop learning has nothing to do
with being an intellectual. It has nothing to do with
(11:41):
impressing people. It absolutely is about my walk with Jesus
Christ and being a good steward of what God has
given me to do. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Yeah, and I think Mike, what both of us are
talking about here just to make it clear, is we
are talking about an encounter with the person of Jesus Christ,
you know, and just even as you were talking, just
being reminded of Saul of Tarsus, right? He tells us
that he was a Pharisee, a Pharisees, that he was
learned in all of the teachings of Glio, who was
(12:10):
this famous, you know, Jewish rabbi in Jerusalem. He learned
there at the seat, you know.
of their religious power. And yet, Paul, for all of
his knowledge, he is outside of the will of God.
He's ignorant concerning the plan of God through Jesus Messiah,
and it isn't until this encounter on the road to
Damascus that everything has changed for him. And then actually,
(12:31):
all the information that Paul has, of course, it's realigned,
but now it makes sense to him, you know, in
the light of this encounter. And so I think, you know,
we follow a God of encounter.
Not a god who is far off, but the God
of scripture is the God who we encounter, the God
who comes among us, the God who reveals Himself. And
(12:54):
so this is what we believe is actually the hope
of the world, and like,
Um, Mike said, this is the reason why we study.
This is the reason why we want to be clear
on the meaning of scripture, the, the, uh, meaning of
the kingdom of God and the good news, because we
want people to encounter the living God and have a
(13:14):
transformational experience through him. So,
Um, I just want to add one more thing. There
was this comment kind of about church history and theology
as well, just again, kind of, you know, depressing, and
I think it is true, you know, uh, reading church
history at times can be very depressing. But I think
(13:36):
rather than seeing it just as depressing, I think what
it should be for us, it should be humbling.
And uh there's lots of things that we can learn
from church history. We can see the patterns and ways
that God has worked, and I'll come back to that
in a minute. But I think as we look at
church history, we realize that they got a lot of
things right.
And they got a lot of things wrong at times.
(13:57):
But what we see is God's faithfulness to his people
through it all, and I think that this should really
make us humble, right?
We can see the same cycle. Wow, OK, the church
goes through kind of these things. Israel goes through these things.
The church is copying those things in in some ways,
and yet God is faithful to have a remnant, to
have those who are committed to him, to bring them through.
(14:19):
Do they know and see everything clearly? No, but God
is with them and leading them. And I think that
this is what church history can do for us. It
can um
You know, help affirm, like, this is what faithfulness looks like,
but it can also help be a mirror to ourselves, like, OK, like,
are we getting the same mistakes and then be humble. Uh,
there are areas that we are missing. We have blind
(14:43):
spots just like they did, and this is why we
always need to allow scripture to blow through our cultural windows, right?
And and to correct us and refresh us and bring
us in the way of Jesus.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yeah, and you know, like I, I think, obviously there's
something to be said for how we read church history
and how it's recorded and reported, but, you know, like
I think of a Martin Luther figure, um, and again, disclaimer,
very imperfect man, but, uh, clearly monumentally important whether you
like him or not. And here's an interesting thing about
(15:19):
Martin Luther, if you study his life, you read any
biographies about him.
On the one hand, he had like an apostolic life
where his life was threatened. He thought he was gonna die.
He literally carried around his will with him because he
knew in this reformation thing and daring to challenge the church,
which was merged with the state, which meant they could
kill you at any moment so bad where they had
(15:40):
to stage a kidnapping to keep him safe so he
could translate.
Bible, but ironically, when you read Luther II, he comes
across as one of the most happy, joyous people I've
ever read. So here's this guy who's who suffered with
physical ailments of various kinds. He writes about it a lot.
He complains about it. And then he's threatened with death
(16:00):
and all this kind of stuff, and yet he really
has
I think a biblical doctrine of creation and what we
call common grace, which I don't think a lot of
Christians really understand or embrace that there is still goodness
in God's world. Yes, it's fallen, but don't let that
give you the idea that there's no joy left in
(16:21):
this life.
that God is not a God of joy. The apostle
Paul is, is even often referred to as the apostle
of joy. But if you look at his life, obviously
very difficult life and at the same time, he was
somebody who just really understood and embraced the joy of
the gospel. And I think in our minds, those two
(16:41):
things have to be separated. Either you have a very hard,
difficult life or we take responsibility, we make eternity our priority.
And then you basically have a miserable life here and now,
you can't enjoy anything. Or if you enjoy life, you're
not being serious about God and the gospel. And I've
actually found as I've gotten older, that is an unfortunate
(17:02):
false dichotomy that I, I think hurts a lot of people.
The truth is, yes.
We're not going to find all we want in this world.
That is absolutely true. The joy we're looking for that
is perfect and eternal is not in this world, and
yet God, the God of joy, the God of the
apostle Paul Martin Luther, is the God of this world
that we are in. His creation, though corrupted by sin,
(17:25):
is still good and there is joy to be had
and embraced. And so I feel like we have to
be careful that we're balanced between those two realities.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah, absolutely. And that, yeah, it's so good just to remind.
Our listeners remind ourselves, uh, you know, creation is a
gift given to us by God to enjoy. And, you know,
one of the things that is pointed out in scripture,
whether this is the nations who do not recognize God
or it's even God's own people, is that they are
not thankful, right? They don't receive all that God has
(17:58):
given them, you know, family, relationship, provision, shelter.
Uh, amazing weather, the ocean, all, you know, all this
beauty and and provision, they don't receive it as gift, right?
It's entitlement, it's, it's these things, it's a burden, you know,
and these things, and, you know,
We are to see these as graces from God in
(18:21):
our lives. Actually, again, ways that God reveals himself. The
psalmist actually would say to this, actually the, the earth
is filled with evidence of God's steadfast love for creation.
You know, so that's the way that we should be
doing these things.
Very good, Christina, thank you for sending in your questions
(18:44):
through the pastor's perspective page on Kwave.com. 888-564-6173 is the
number to call us if you've got a question. We
would love to hear from you on this Monday afternoon. 888-564-6173.
Here's a question that Nancy sent in from Rancho Santa Margarita.
She writes, Good afternoon, pastors. God is often described as
(19:06):
using weather to make statements or to communicate with humanity.
Are we witnessing His divine power over nature at work today? Mike,
what do you say?
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Well, the God of the Old Testament is the God
of the New Testament. He's the god of today. So,
obviously he's sovereign over weather, but I would say even
even in the Bible, um, God is not
Directly causing every raindrop or whatever, he created the world,
he created it in such a way. For example, we
talk about natural laws and yes, it's true, he's he's
(19:40):
sustaining all things by the word of his power, so
he's presently active in the world. But again, why do
we have these patterns? Why are things predictable if God
were just, you know, kind of randomly
Controlling the weather in quote unquote, what some might call
a miraculous way, then it would be completely unpredictable. So
the truth is, God seems to have created the world,
including the weather in such a way that there are
(20:02):
predictable patterns. And I'm not against the idea that God
can sort of directly cause something, right? The problem
Though, is we don't have biblical revelation today to interpret that,
whereas obviously in the Bible when there's a storm sent
for Jonah, right, we're not meant to go, Oh, you just,
(20:25):
you know, that was an accident, that was a coincidence. No,
it actually said God sent it, right? Like God sent
that storm to do exactly what it did.
Now, the problem is, and I remember this years ago,
and you guys might remember this, I think New Orleans
was hit with a hurricane and it was flooded, and
I can't remember the famous TV preacher that said it's
(20:45):
God's judgment on the people of New Orleans and all
that kind of stuff. And I thought that was a
very unwise thing to say because the truth is, in
a fallen world.
Even such weather happens to good, quote unquote good people,
and by that I mean faithful Jesus followers. What about
Jesus followers in other parts of the world where they're
(21:06):
loving Jesus? How about this last weekend, where Christians were
at a camp in Texas, Christians, they're there, youth are there,
and they're, I mean, you know what I'm saying? So to,
without biblical warrant, without special revelation.
Uh, I think it's very foolish for us to make
proclamations that, oh, this particular storm in this thing. So
(21:28):
I believe there's God set the world in motion. He
set the weather so that there's predictable and honestly, in
a fallen world, things happen earthquakes, pestilences, all that, and
that's not punishing people.
Every single time. That's a part of the general curse
that we see in Genesis 3. It's not a specific
curse upon a specific person or a group for a
(21:50):
specific sin. And in the case that God is doing that,
could he do that? Yes, but unfortunately, I don't have
biblical revelation to speak for God on that matter.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
I was reading, uh, actually this morning, Psalm 19.
And, you know, what a, a beautiful passage of scripture
that actually combines general revelation with special revelation, right? All
the ways that God actually is speaking, you know, in
the first verse is, the heavens declare the glory of God,
the skies proclaimed the work of his hands, and then
(22:23):
this is just beautiful. Day after day, they pour forth speech,
night after night.
Yet they use no words. And so there's no language
that can't hear them, right? Because they're not using words,
it's these pictures to us of God's power, of his creativity,
of his love. They're speaking to us. And so I would,
(22:44):
I think another way that scripture would answer this question
is saying, yes, creation witnesses God's divine power.
It witnesses his care, his steadfast love and faithfulness to humans,
to the world he created. Are we listening? You know,
so sometimes like, right, we want to use the signs
(23:05):
to read the tea leaves kind of thing, you know, like,
give us uh the particulars. What does this sign mean?
And scripture is already spoken to us what it means.
It means God is powerful.
It means that God is caring, it means that he
is present. It means again, that he is the speaking,
revealing God, revealing Himself to us. And so the question,
(23:30):
I think, would be, are we listening to what scripture
has already revealed uh about how God speaks to us
in the world. There's a practice that Christians have have
practiced for many, many years, and it's actually called Vizio divina,
a holy seeing.
And the practice is actually just to sit in nature
and just to take in, or you can, you know,
you can actually look at basically anything, could be a painting, scripture,
(23:53):
a scene, whatever it might be, but just to take
it in and to listen to the ways that God
might want to speak. And so we've done this actually
a number of times as a staff, uh, we've gone
down to the beach and we just sat on the shore.
And we just quiet ourselves long enough to listen, you know,
and for some, you know, we're listening to the waves
and the way that they, you know, come in, and
(24:13):
the way that they go out, and just the consistency
of the tide, you know, people have, you know, it's
reminding them of things that scripture has said about God's faithfulness,
or about, you know, the way that he washed.
He is away our sin, he's cast them into the
depths of the sea, just taken in nature to remind
us of the things that God has revealed about himself.
(24:34):
And we can actually find this all throughout the Psalms.
And I think that this is actually a really wonderful
practice for uh Christians to engage in, because unfortunately,
Uh, we can relegate God's revelation only to scripture.
But I think that that's to get it the wrong
way around. I remember having this conversation with my son
(24:55):
years ago, and he and he was asking me, you know,
it's just
Just a simple question, but he's like, I don't understand
why I have to read the Bible. And he said this,
can't God speak to me anywhere?
Through anything? And I, I love just the sincerity of
his question. Of course, he's grown up in a Christian home,
you know, where we talk about Jesus all the time,
where we talk about, you know, the God of the
(25:16):
Bible all the time, and what it means to follow him.
And so, to help him understand the importance of scripture,
I said, OK, yes, son, God can speak to you
through anything, and we actually believe that God is speaking
all the time. He speaks through people, he speaks through
his creation, he can speak through a song, a movie,
all these things, right?
(25:37):
But how do we know his voice?
And the only way we can actually know that it
is the voice of God is because of this revealed
word of God. And I think that this is why
scripture is so important in the life of the believer.
What we need to do is we need to tune
(25:58):
our ear to know the voice of the Lord. And
we think about even in the New Testament where Jesus
says this, it's so powerful, my sheep know my voice.
This is such a distinct mark of the people of God.
We know the voice of the Lord, we know the
voice of Jesus. And once we know the voice, we
(26:20):
can actually discern God speaking everywhere, anywhere, through a conversation
with a friend, through, you know, we've talked about this on,
you know, the show before, but through film, through music,
through art, through creation, through even food.
God can speak to us. Oh, he's given us these
taste buds to to enjoy this. Why? Because God is
(26:44):
so good. He's so kind, right? So, I think that
that's just something that we need to remember. Scripture is
actually revealed to us the way that God speaks, and
how to discern the voice of the Lord. Are we listening? question.
Yeah, Mike.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Uh, amen to that. I mean, I, I think again,
because some people see the Bible as sort of killing
a personal dynamic relationship with God and hearing about like
you said, it's actually the opposite, you know, the Bible
actually tunes our ear and helps us to know whether
God is speaking to us.
(27:23):
Out in creation, through other people, etc. So quite ironically,
if you want to really hear God apart from the Bible,
you need to be in the Bible. It's, it's the
Bible that tells you whether something is of God or
it's not, because as much as I, I think it's
wonderful and I want to hear from.
God, you know, in my daily life and making decisions, right,
(27:45):
about things that there's no chapter and verse for this
specific decision, you know, which person should you marry? I
get asked that a lot, right? And there's no, there's
typically no verse, you know, with a, with a modern
American name anyway, and where it's like, oh yeah, marry
so and so. So obviously, you, but you've been a
Christian wants to hear the voice of the Lord, and again,
the Bible is shaping you, you're hearing God's voice, you're
(28:08):
also hearing his heart.
And you're being shaped and you're becoming more like Him.
You're beginning to desire the things that God desires. You're
beginning to abhor the things that he abhors, and you're
becoming more like Him, and that actually frees you to
do what you are saying, to really see God out
work in the world. So I, you know, I find
it strange for some people that are, you know, pointing
(28:29):
to the Bible, but then they feel like they can't,
they can't see.
God working anywhere else, don't hear him anywhere else, and I,
I find it quite ironic because I see the opposite.
The more I'm in the scriptures, the more I'm reading
the Bible, the more I understand it and meditate over
it and live it out, I'm seeing and hearing God
all over the place.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Yeah, I think about how CS Lewis had that, you know,
famous line, I think it's from Christianity, but he says.
I believe in Christianity as I believe in the sun,
not not just because I see it, but by it
I see everything else. I think that that's a great
way to understand like scripture is almost a set of
lenses through which we see the world. And as we
(29:09):
look through the eyes of scripture, we see the world
the way it is meant to be seen.
Nancy, thank you for sending in your question online, and
we're gonna go to break now and when we come back,
we'll have more of your questions. You can call in
and ask them at 888-564-6173. That's the best way to
get an answer today. Or if you don't need an
(29:30):
answer right away, you can send your question in online
through Facebook, Instagram, or through our website, Kwave.com.
But the best way to get an answer is to
call us right now till 4 o'clock, 888-564-6173 is our number.
We've got Char Broderson from Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa and
Mike Chaddick from Image Church in San Juan Capistrano. 888-564-6173
(29:54):
is that number, and you can grab an open line
right now and we'll talk to you on the other
side of the break.
(30:21):
888-564-6173 is the number to call us today here on
Pastor's Perspective. I'm Brian Perez here with Char Broderson and
Mike Chaddick, and we would love to
Have a chance to answer the question that you have
for us today. Maybe you heard something at church over
the weekend, or you heard something here on this radio
program or you saw something on YouTube. Who knows? And
(30:42):
you're wondering, uh, how to make sense of it all
from a Christian point of view. So give us a
call at 888-564-6173.
Marian sent this in from Rancho Cucamonga. She asks in
Genesis 11:6 through 8, Was there just one race and
one language at that time? And then God changed the
language and created different races and scattered them all over
(31:04):
the earth so they wouldn't come together against Him again. Char,
what do you say to Marian?
Yeah, I mean the um question about racism is a
really interesting question, like, where does this come from, you know,
and we often talk about the human race or these,
you know, the different races, there's a black race and
the white race, and, you know, the Hispanic race and
And this is actually a human construct or a cultural construct, right? Um,
(31:28):
the teaching of the Bible is that there is only
one race, this is the human race, and then in
the beginning, God created two human beings in his image,
and that all human beings have come from them. And
of course, there's debate about how this happened in these things,
but this is the clear teaching of scripture. There is
one race, the human race, but
(31:51):
We recognize that there are different ethnicities, different tribes, the
Bible puts it this way, tribes, tongues, nations, peoples and languages, right?
So there's kind of these different categories, kind of as
we break down, you know, dis uh certain areas of
the world and, you know, continents and then regions and
these types of things that we understand that there are
(32:12):
these ethnicities that come out of those things.
Now, the interesting thing about Genesis chapter 11, is that
God had given a mandate to humanity back in the garden,
that they were to be fruitful, they were to multiply,
and they were to fill the whole earth. They were
to spread God's reign, his presence all throughout the whole
of creation, and of course, the humans rebelled against that.
(32:35):
And here in the pages of Genesis chapter 11, we
actually see a continuation of that rebellion.
God is given a decree, but then it says that
the whole world came together. So instead of this scattering,
filling the whole earth, they come together as one, and basically,
God says, you know, they're gonna accomplish whatever they set
(32:58):
out to do. And so, what we understand is what
happens at Babel is God basically bringing his project to
send humanity throughout the whole earth back on track. He
Correcting this with this judgment that he confuses their language,
and then, of course, because they're confused, they spread out
(33:20):
from there to the other surrounding regions, and then of course,
you know, eventually populate the whole earth, even Antarctica, even Antarctica. Mike.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Yeah, just to reaffirm what Char said, yeah, race is
a modern construct. It's not a, it's not a biblical framework.
It's not a biblical concept. So to the, to the question,
I think yes, there was one civilization. It appears at
that time they shared a culture, they shared a common language, right,
because of course the curses that that would be broken up,
(33:54):
that they would now form different rivaling.
Civilizations, they would develop various languages and cultural practices and beliefs,
and they would be at war with each other. And
what's interesting is, through Jesus, the resurrection and the outpouring
of the Spirit of Pentecost, the first sort of miracle
(34:15):
of Pentecost is the overcome.
of those languages, those diverse languages of Babel, so that
God is sort of reversing the curse of Babel, and
he's gathering people from every tribe, tongue, and nation into
the people of God. And of course, like Paul says
in Acts 17, as he's talking to the Athenians, human
(34:36):
beings are made from
One blood. We all come from one place, so any
sort of theology or philosophy or social theory that pits
people groups against people groups as though one is inherently
inferior or superior to another is heretical. It's an unbiblical concept.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Very good, Mary, and thank you for sending in your
question through the Kwave.com Pastor's perspective page. And now we're
going to go to the phones, 888-564-6173 is the number
to call. Chris hung up, so we're gonna talk to
George in Temecula listening on FM 107.9K wave. Hey George,
what's your question for us today?
(35:21):
Hello, so I have a question, uh, I just wants
you guys' perspective, you know, um, I guess.
I was wondering
Cause I saw a video on it and it's like
the areas that you're tempted in.
Or you know, or the sin that you're tempted in.
For example, let's say you're tempted in a lot and
(35:43):
lust and and you overcome that through faith in Jesus,
is that where you're calling is to, to like perhaps
the enemy was trying to prevent.
You from having a, a deep, uh, intimacy with, with,
with someone and and covenant and healing, or that's just
one example, you know, how about, you know, like smoking,
(36:05):
overcoming an addiction of smoking like perhaps you were the
enemy was trying to stop you from.
Or trying to damage your lungs and trying to stop
you from speaking up about the word of God, or,
you know, overcoming these, these things. Was that, is that
your calling, you know, it kind of. Yeah, interesting. Sure,
what do you say? Yeah, you know, scripture doesn't like
(36:29):
tell us the specifics of our calling, and what I
mean by that is, I think sometimes this is the
kind of clarity that we're looking for, like, we want details, right?
Like we want to know what lane we're supposed to
run in, you know, and, and we want, you know, confirmation, right?
And rather what scripture does is it gives us the
person of Jesus Christ.
(36:49):
And it says be his disciple, be with him, become
like him, do what he does. Follow him, and as
you follow Jesus, discover how Jesus's life is supposed to
be lived through your life. So your opportunities, um, your responsibilities,
what would Jesus do if he had your life? That's
what we're supposed to do. That is actually the calling
(37:10):
of God on our lives is to become like Jesus.
And then part of the adventure, the partnership where, where,
you know, God kind of calls our own participation is like, OK,
discovering what that looks like, you know, uh, where is
God calling me to do that? Is it, you know,
as you said, you know, my story might be that
(37:32):
I struggled with addiction, and Paul says,
You know, sometimes that, you know, not sometimes, but God
actually uses the trials and troubles of our lives as
we come through those, he uses those to help others,
to give them comfort, right? And the affliction that they're experiencing.
And so for many people who have come through, you know,
addiction and and um really seen victory in these things,
(37:55):
they feel this burden for others to help them. That's
a beautiful thing. That's a very redemptive um work that
God does in our lives, but it's actually not necessarily
the way it always happens. And I think for us,
that's where we just have to be sensitive to the
spirit of God.
We have to be very honest about kind of who
(38:17):
we are and the gifts and abilities that God has
given us. Mike, I know you've mentioned a few times
that for you, like, that was not on the table, right?
To go back to your friends and your lifestyle early
on in your walk with Jesus, it wasn't safe for you.
You know, to do that. And so, you know, I
would say, man, like, if you're in an area of
your life where you are still wrestling with these things,
(38:39):
I don't think the call of God on your life
is to go back to those things now. And we've
actually seen many people that, I think, try to do that,
and it ends up holding them back into those patterns. So,
I think, well, not I think, I know the plan
of God for all of us, the call of God
for all of us, is to follow Jesus, to be
(38:59):
a disciple.
And that as we follow Jesus, we'll discover the specifics
of how we are to do that, you know, barista
or plumber, CEO, pastor, you know, whatever that might be, right? Um,
that's the exciting part, that's the adventure, discovering how God
is calling us or where God is calling us to
(39:21):
follow in the way of Jesus. Yeah, Mike.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Yeah, I, I agree with Char. I mean, I, I
think certainly it can be something like Satan's trying to
get somebody to derail a specific one. I think it
can be that, but again, I, I don't think uh
it's always that way, maybe many times it's not. And
I think, you know, again, the main problem with sin,
because a lot of times we focus on calling in
(39:45):
the sense of what am I supposed to do.
But the most important thing is to know Him, and
sin interrupts our relationship to Jesus, not his relationship to us.
He's committed, he's eternally invested in us through his own blood,
but for us, the truth is if we're harboring sin
in our lives, then we're not having that close fellowship
(40:09):
with Jesus that we can. That's the worst thing about it.
It's not so much, oh gosh, this sin's keeping me
from
Speaking over here or, you know, building this thing over
here or whatever. I mean, and that matters, that's important.
But I do think sometimes we look at like what
we're gonna do.
As like being the most important what we're gonna do
for God, and I think really, um, that's even how
(40:30):
some people in ministry get into trouble. They, they start
thinking about what their specific calling is, is the most
important thing in the world when the truth is, the
most important thing in the world for them is the
same for every other believer, and that is to know
Jesus Christ and Him crucified. And so sin gets in
the way of that, if it happens to be.
A sin where, um, you know, to your point, I
(40:51):
do think that you can do that. I've seen it,
I think, in people's lives where their particular quote unquote
besetting sin was something that really hindered them from doing
the particular thing.
You know, they were called to do. But again, other
times I don't think it equates to that, but at
the same time, we shouldn't take it any less serious
because it's all that hinders our our walk with God,
(41:14):
and that's the most important thing in the world. Yeah,
Speaker 1 (41:17):
and I, I, I do like what George said just
about like this idea though that like we use these
things um that
God has given us and we twist them. You know,
this is part of uh what the scripture calls sin, right?
We actually have iniquity, which is an inner twistedness, and
so we take the good things that God has given
us and we twist them into selfish things, we turn
(41:38):
them in on themselves. We use them in ways that
God did not intend us to, you know, so with
our mouths, we put down and
We curse, and we, you know, keep people out, and
God has actually given us mouths to praise him, to
glorify him, to bless, and to encourage others. And this
is actually how Paul the Apostle will constantly direct the
(42:00):
speech of God's people, or James will correct and redirect
the speech of God's people. So I do think there
is something
There for us to think about, like, what Jesus wants
to do as we follow him, is he wants to
heal and redirect all the twisted ways that we use
our bodies, and we use the gifts and abilities that
God has given us for ourselves, or to do harm,
(42:23):
or to do what is selfish, and he wants to
direct them in a way that is life-giving, that is
sacrificial in the way of Jesus, in a way that
glorifies God.
George, does this help you?
Yes, it does. Thank you. Amen. All right, man, thank
you for calling us today here on Pastor's Perspective. And look,
Chris called back. Thank you, Chris. 888-564-6173. What is your
(42:48):
question for us today? Uh, I'd like to know how
do I know that I'm saved? And why do you
ask this question, Chris?
Uh, because I'm at kind of a, a point right
now where I'm just questioning my salvation. OK. Is it
because you're falling into the same sins over and over again, or,
or why are you questioning?
(43:09):
Uh, I'm not sure. I'm also, uh, mentally ill, so.
Uh, OK. Yeah. Sure.
Yeah, Chris, you know, the Bible reveals that salvation is
found in Jesus. And if we go back to the
beginning of the story, which I often like to do,
(43:32):
is we need to understand that, you know, God created
human beings um in his image.
Um, to be near him, to be his friends, to
be his partners, and he wanted to work with humans
to spread his reign, his kingdom, all the way to
the ends of the earth. But the Bible says that humans,
Adam and Eve, they actually rejected God, and they listened to,
(43:55):
you know, the devil in the in the beginning, and
they went with him and the way that he was
offering them um this opportunity to rule and to have power.
And so, what we need to understand is at the
very beginning of of humanity's story, everything kind of goes
off the rails.
And the rest of the Bible is telling us how
God is going to bring humanity back to himself, to
(44:18):
bear his image, to be his friends and be his partners,
and to work with him to spread his kingdom to
the ends of the earth. And at the climax of
the story of the Bible, Jesus of Nazareth comes on
the scene, and he begins to do all the same
things that God, uh, who is revealed.
(44:39):
And the Old Testament did. He can feed the multitudes
out of nothing. He can command the wind and the waves,
he can raise the dead. He can heal any sickness
or disease. And what the story of Jesus is telling
us is that the God who made us, the God
who created us to be his friends and to be
(45:00):
his partners and to work with him, has actually come
to rescue us.
And he did this by going to the cross, and
there at the cross, Jesus concentrates all of the evil
and darkness and sin in the world, the evil of
the spiritual realm, but also the evil of human beings,
and the sin that we've committed to one another. And
(45:21):
the Bible says that Jesus killed all of that in
his own body, so that human beings could come back
to God, could be
Remade in his image, could be partners and friends with
God again, and then join him in his project to
reclaim the world as his kingdom.
And so we believe that we are saved, we are
(45:45):
redeemed only by trusting in Jesus, recognizing that he is
the only answer to humanity's problem. He's the only way
we can come back to God. He's the only way
that we can discover our true identity and purpose in
this world.
And so the way that we are saved is by
trusting in Jesus, and the way we know that we're
(46:07):
saved is by continuing to follow Jesus. That's how we know. So,
I would just say to you, Chris, you know, I
would ask you, are you trusting in Jesus? Are you
following him?
Uh, yeah, I think I am. Yeah, well, then I
would encourage you to keep doing that, and also Chris,
(46:28):
you know, I would encourage you, if you don't already,
to surround yourself with friends who are also following Jesus,
that can remind you of what it means to be
saved by Jesus, what it means to follow Jesus, and
can encourage you um in your discipleship to Jesus. Mike.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
Yeah, I think that's great, and, you know, it's as
simple as what Paul says in Romans 10:9. If you
confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe
in your heart,
That God has raised him from the dead, you will
be saved. That's what Paul says. That's the authority of
the word of God. And I'd say, you know, but
(47:09):
we can always come back and wrestle with assurance, though, right?
And I think that's your, your question. And I think
a great illustration of this comes from the story of Abraham.
In Genesis chapter 12, we, Abraham first gets a promise,
and it says Abraham believed God and God accredited to
him as righteousness. But
(47:30):
Abraham is wrestling in a sense with your question. Well,
how do I know?
And that's where the covenant comes in in Genesis 15.
Abraham says, But sovereign Lord, how will I know? Well,
wait a minute, Abraham. God already promised you, we spoke
to you, you responded, You're good. Things are good. Why
are you wrestling? It's because we have a need to know. We,
(47:51):
we need some sort of objective symbol or something that
points to us that, yes, what we believe has happened
has actually happened, and that's what the
of the covenant is for, and Christians have the sign
of the covenant as well. And I think that's why
even today where, you know, we have many non-denominational low
church traditions and some of them from what I've been told,
(48:13):
kind of, you know, look low on baptism and communion
and all that, but that's actually what this is for.
These are signs of the covenant.
You know, and so I would ask somebody, uh, an
important follow-up is, have you been baptized? And, and don't
get me wrong, I'm not saying water baptism saves you.
I don't believe that, but what I'm saying is it's
(48:34):
a sign of the covenant. It's about assurance.
And so one of the things you can do when
you wake up on a given day and you're like,
I'm not sure, I'm saved, what's going on. You can
look back to that day when you made that profession
of faith, you took that step of faith. Jesus ordered
his followers to those who have trusted in Him, right?
(48:54):
Cause it wasn't like be baptized, then you're saying, No, no.
You believe on the Lord.
Jesus Christ, that's number one. And if you've done that,
your first act of obedience that identifies you as a
member of that covenant that you can use as an
objective marker is water baptism. You are now in the fellowship.
You are a part of the community of God's people,
(49:14):
and if you wake up on a given day and say,
oh gosh, I don't know, you can look back at
that day. And for those that have been in Christ
for many years, this is what
Holy communion is. You're coming back. It's a vow renewal ceremony.
You're coming back over and over to the signs of
the covenant that I am indeed sealed by the blood
of Jesus Christ, and we need to be reminded of that.
(49:37):
That's why we do it every week at our church.
It's not just, you know, we some tradition or whatever, no.
A theological reason we believe people wrestle with assurance. We
believe Satan wants people to doubt their salvation. We believe
that gets them to operate not in the spirit, but
in the flesh when you're sitting there doubting constantly whether
I'm even in the faith or whatever. And to give
(49:58):
it an analogy, you know, there's
When you get married, there's some days, and, and again,
I love my wife, and she loves me, but there
can be days where, you know, you're married and you
wake up like, gosh, you know, this whole, am I,
am I married? Like, what's going on? And I can
look down at this ring on my finger.
(50:18):
And it's a sign of the covenant. It reminds me
that I am a wedded man. I am a married man.
I am sealed by this, and I find too many people,
they go by their feelings, even in marriage, right? Oh gosh,
I don't feel married. I've had people tell me that
in marital counseling. They're like, Oh, I don't really feel
married anymore. I don't feel like this is, it's like, well,
(50:39):
wait a minute, what is that on your finger?
Oh well, well, it's a ring. Why'd you give it? Well,
it was part of the wedding ceremony. We, we made vows.
We made, made a covenant. Oh, you did. Well then
you're married and you operate according to that promise, to
that objective covenant, and that's the same thing that God
has given us in baptism and holy communion.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
Chris, thanks for your phone call today on Pastor's Perspective.
Now we'll talk to Lee in Corona listening on FM
107.9 K wave. Hi Lee, what's your question for us today?
Good morning. Good, good afternoon, brothers. How are you doing?
Speaker 2 (51:16):
Doing great. Good. How are you?
Speaker 1 (51:18):
I'm doing good. I'm an old timer.
Speaker 2 (51:20):
I've been listening to you to uh K Wa since
Chuck Smith's days and, uh.
I'm just trying to get my head around. I'm trying
to understand, you know, trying to get a better understanding
like so many people of what happened in Texas, brother,
kind of from your perspective and and pray for the people,
(51:42):
but my heart I'm just broken. I, you know, I'm on, I,
I got daughters. I can't even imagine what people are
going through. Can you give your perspective, brothers, on good
and evil, on God, so.
You know, that God Almighty, he's all powerful. And uh
one thing Pastor Chuck would always say, never trade what
we know for what. Yes, that's right. Brothers, if you
(52:04):
guys can really kinda give your thoughts on it, you know,
and uh maybe pray for everybody.
Speaker 1 (52:11):
I know a lot of people are grappling with that
issue and a lot of people, you know, believers as well,
you know.
Yeah, for sure, yeah.
Mike
Speaker 2 (52:21):
Yeah, it's, I mean, like you said, I mean, it's,
it's tragic, it's heartbreaking, it's unbelievable, and
You know, to make matters worse, I mean, this happens
all around the world every day. We just don't always
hear about it. We're hearing about it more because of
the internet and things like that. Obviously, this, if you're
an American, this hits closer to home. If you're a parent,
(52:44):
this hits closer to home, these were youth, and the youth,
I mean, if you're a Christian, right, cause you're not
talking about, oh, well, these were pagans, they were, they
were getting the no, no, these were not, these were
children of Christian parents at a Christian youth camp and
they died.
Suddenly and unexpectedly, and, you know, this goes back to
what I was saying earlier, that's why I think it's
(53:06):
so dangerous.
To start seeing every flood, every earthquake, every accident is
God's judgment. No, if, if we want to say it's
judgment at all, it's simply the judgment of Genesis 3.
The world has been cursed and it is, it's corrupting.
The Bible actually says the earth itself is, is groaning out. It's,
(53:26):
it's falling apart. It's, it's in decay and is a
part of that, living in a fallen world where man
is mortal, it's appointed once for a man to die.
It's not a matter of if but when.
And many times, and again, if you think about it,
in one sense, death is always tragic. I mean, we're
so accustomed to death when somebody who's 90 or 100 dies,
we go, oh yeah, that's just normal. Actually, the biblical worldviews,
(53:48):
that's not normal either. We were not meant to die.
The only reason death is in the world from a
biblical worldview is sin. Death came through sin. And so
I think it's a reminder that we live in this
world and yes, it is always more.
Particularly tragic when it involves, I think young people, right?
(54:12):
They haven't lived life, they haven't become adults, they haven't
gotten married. They haven't had children, that kind of thing.
And so it feels more tragic, but the truth is
every death is tragic. That that that's the truth of it.
And God has done something about it in Jesus Christ.
He not only died to reconcile us to God, but
to give us
Resurrection and new earth. That's the end of the Bible.
(54:35):
We will live in a body and a world that
will not know such catastrophes ever again. That's the gospel message.
And so I think one way we can look at
it and CS Lewis's words, when we see something like that,
that just seems so wrong, seems so unfair, is to
remember that in eternity, God will make right.
(54:56):
The wrongs of time. And in these areas of mystery.
Why did this person die suddenly with no warning to
their family? They died on the, I mean, just to me, like,
I was talking to my son who's only been driving
for a couple of years now, and we were driving
to church, and he says to me, Dad, isn't it
so weird? If someone just turns the wheel ever so slightly,
we're on Ortega Highway, which we don't know is one
(55:18):
of the most dangerous highways in California.
If someone just turns the wheel, they're just, they go
to sip of coffee, they, you know, just kind of whatever, boom,
that's a head-on collision and you're gone and it's happened
to so many people on that same highway and, and
it's like, and I recognize it could happen to me too,
you know, I'm not, I'm not special in the sense
(55:40):
that I deserve to not get in an accident or
anything else. It's a part of the world we live in,
and I commit, like you said, and that's one of
my favorite sayings of Pastor Chuck, never give up.
What you know for what you don't know. I don't
need the specifics of why this person that place, but
I understand the ultimate reason for sure,
Speaker 1 (55:59):
Char, Mike, thank you for joining us today on Pastor's Perspective, everybody.
We will be back tomorrow. God bless.
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