July 21, 2025 • 56 mins
Pastors' Perspective is a one-hour call-in program where listeners can call in and get answers to questions about the Bible, Christianity, family, and life. The program is live Monday through Friday from 3:00 PM - 4:00 PM Pacific. You can call 888-564-6173 to ask your questions.
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Speaker 1 (00:16):
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez.
Special thanks to Michael David for filling in for me yesterday.
I am back today and we are ready to talk
to you at 888-564-6173. We've got Brian Broderson, one of
the pastors at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa here to answer
your questions at 888-564-6173. We've also got Dave Keene. He's
(00:41):
the teaching pastor at Cornerstone Community Church in San Clementa.
And he is also the professor and chair of Christian
ministries at the Talbot or Talbot School of Theology at Talbot,
why am I not that doesn't sound right. It's close.
It's Talbot
Speaker 2 (00:57):
School of Theology at Bor University. That's yeah, so I
was big mouthful.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
I was heading in the right direction. I just lost
confidence in myself. Well, you know, you've said that so
many times. Yes, you're a little bit out of practice.
I need that. I take one day. Well, no, there's
not been a bio, no, because Carmen was here on Monday.
She was on the program.
And not in studio, no, but so I was saying
biola then, but I don't know. I take a day
off and I forget how to do everything.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
It's one of those words that sometimes trips you up.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, I don't know
why. Talbot School of Theology at Biola University, the most
comprehensively Christian university in North America. I still remember that. Yeah,
Speaker 2 (01:32):
there you go. That's all that needs to be said.
That's
Speaker 1 (01:34):
888-564-6173 is the number to call us today. You can
also send in your questions online.
And you can do that on the pastor's perspective Facebook
page by using Messenger, or you can DM us on
the pastor's perspective Instagram, or go to Kwave.com and look
for the pastor's perspective page there, and you can fill
out the form that gets your question to us, or
(01:56):
you can scan the QR code.
On YouTube, Instagram, or Facebook, if you're watching online right now.
There's a QR code there, scan it, that takes you
to that page where you can fill out that form. Now,
as we wait for your questions to come in, uh, Dave,
why don't you tell us for a few minutes about the,
the Adam Keane Foundation?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah, thank you. My son, Adam was a youth pastor, um,
Unfamiliar to, uh, I didn't realize he had that passion, uh,
because he didn't necessarily demonstrate that called the ministry when
he was growing up. But, uh, when he went into college,
went to Bioola and God just captured his heart with
the gospel, and he served at Mariners's Church, Irvine on
(02:38):
their middle school staff and then was the junior high
pastor at a church in Glendora.
Uh, unfortunately, 3 years ago, uh, he passed away suddenly
of a brain aneurysm. And, uh, one of the ways
that our family has been dealing with grief is to
seek to honor him and his legacy for the gospel.
And so we started a foundation that comes alongside other
(03:02):
brand new youth pastors. That's our target is someone who's
just entering ministry and saying how can we
Equip them? How can we build them up and give
them resources? Adam had a lot of mentors in his
life and so that's what we do. We seek to
attach a veteran youth pastor and coach the this young, uh,
youth pastor in this first year of how do you
(03:23):
develop your ministry? How do you reach more students for
the gospel? And so we provide what we call ministry
development coaching.
And so as this young youth pastor, uh, is starting
that process, um, they're creating new opportunities to share the
gospel in our community, and then our foundation not just
coaches them up, but actually then gives them a financial
(03:43):
grant to make that ministry happen. And so we started
a couple of years ago, um, last year we were
able to coach 6 youth pastors across the United States
and Canada. And as the
Foundation are growing, we're adding on an additional 9 that
will start this fall with us. We we actually made
the decision to continue coaching those additional, those 1st 6,
(04:06):
but this would be now in um spiritual formation for
themselves because we've been asking questions like what will help
a new youth pastor stay in the game for the
long haul. And so the first year is learn more
about ministry development and the second year is more spiritual
formation development. And uh so you can read more about it,
the Adam Keane Foundation.
Uh, dot com. And we have a fundraiser coming up.
(04:28):
Adam's birthday was September 7th, and so that weekend, September 6th,
we're actually hosting at our church in San Clemente a
large tri-tip barbecue and worship concert, and I thought I
would just, it's not on the website yet because we're
putting out, uh, just a call if there are young, uh,
Christian artists out there, they're looking for a venue to
(04:49):
To try some songs that we're just gonna have a
kind of a time to bring in artists who are
willing to donate their time, and we'll give them a
space to be heard and, uh, and try to say
how do we just kind of glorify God as we
come together and worship, as well as listen to new
artists and eat some good tri-tip barbecue. So,
The date for that will be September 6th down in
(05:11):
San Clemente.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Pastor Brian used to be in a band. You should
break out the guitar and, well, you know, used to
is the, uh, that's the key break might be a
little rusty, a little, little rusty, but my 14 year
old grandson.
is in a band and they just we did our VBS,
you know, and their band kind of led the whole
(05:32):
worship for it and they did a fantastic.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Yeah, I mean, those are the kind of things we're
looking for is, um, just people who have, you know,
maybe a couple of songs that they wrote that they
want to play for people. Um, you can actually contact
us through our Gmail. It's Adam Keanfoundation@gmail.com is our simple
email and
Just let us know you're interested in coming down and
playing on the 6th of September in the evening and
(05:56):
uh we'll be putting more information out on our website,
but we're still just looking for young Christian artists that
want a place to play and
You know, a chance to shine. So that's kind of the,
that's kind of the vibe of Adam. Like, I love
how we've been able to connect with young youth pastors
across the United States and Canada, and we have veteran
coaches who are donating their kind, veteran youth pastors who
(06:19):
catch this vision of building up the next generation of
young leaders because that's the future of, of the church, right?
These are young youth pastors that will become the next
teaching pastors and church planters and senior leaders.
Of churches and so we want to help these young
men and women stay in the game.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
So
that's great. Yep. And Adam Keanfoundation.com is that website. Keane
is spelled K E E H N, Adam Keaneoundation.com or
email adam Keanefoundation@gmail.com, and all the details will be there
on the website, uh, soon, momentarily, but uh what a
(06:55):
great opportunity.
888-564-6173 is the number to call us today. Where are
my Facebook questions? Did I hand them to you? Would
you mind? Thank you. OK. So let's read one that
was sent in online before we go to the phones.
This one is from Gloria in Ontario, who says, I
would like to know what to say to someone who says,
(07:16):
I'm a Christian. I'm just not a practicing Christian. To me,
that's not a Christian then. Am I wrong? What can
I say to them to help them understand? Brian, what
do you tell Gloria?
Well, I, I think obviously you want to have a
little bit more of a conversation with them about just
what do they mean by that and how, how do
(07:38):
they see that as, as, you know, a possibility. Um, I,
I would, I would imagine they probably are thinking like, well, yeah, I,
you know, I, I, I, I, I believe in Jesus,
you know, Jesus is, of course, Jesus is the son
of God, but I'm just doing my own thing. That's
a a lot of people. So they would say on
the one hand they're Christian, but
(07:58):
Um, uh, but of course, you know, scripture tells us, um, uh,
that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord
or takes the name of the Lord is to depart
from sin. And so if you're not actively pursuing your
what the Bible calls sanctification, um, growing in holiness and
(08:20):
becoming more like Jesus, then
Uh, you might be a Christian, but you're, you're far
from what God intends for you to be, and so
you have to, I, I mean, it is possible, you know,
there are people that are genuinely Christians who are just
stalled out somewhere in sin or in negligence or whatever.
(08:43):
And uh they, they need to, you know, they need
to get serious about the Lord. Dave, I don't know
if you, you probably have had this experience. I've, I've
had experiences over the years where, say, I, I would
have somebody come in to see me pastorally, and I
would sit down with them, and my initial thought was
this person is not a Christian.
And after an hour of conversation, I thought, oh my gosh,
(09:06):
this person actually is a Christian. They're just in bad shape,
you know, they're not in their discipleship has stalled out somewhere.
And then I'd have other people come in and start
off and I'd think, oh, that's surely this person is
a Christian, and an hour later I'm like, this person
not even saved. So, I mean those can be kind
of challenging, but it takes a little probing, little little more.
(09:32):
Uh, getting down to, OK, what, what are we talking
about here? And then going back to scripture and saying, OK,
let's look at what the Bible says about what it
is to be a Christian.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah, I would agree with the reality that this has
to be a conversation and not just a judgment. The
concern is that they're saying, I'm not a practicing Christian. I,
I want to know why don't you practice and what
does that mean? Does it mean you don't follow the
teachings of Jesus anymore? You're not believing in in who
God is. I know.
(10:01):
When people go through grief, there's a time of of
doubt and struggle that people might say, I just don't know,
and so they might pull back from obedience, but
Scripture's pretty clear, you know, the, you know, Jesus actually
says in Luke chapter 6 verse 46, you know, why
do you call me Lord if you don't do what
I say? So, if we are gonna be saying I'm
(10:24):
a follower of Jesus, and maybe the short term in
our vernaculars I'm a Christian, there really should be action
and fruit to back that up, otherwise you're
It, it really doesn't mean a whole lot. So I
think that I, there's worth having deeper conversations.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Yeah.
Gloria, thank you for sending in your question on the
Pastor's perspective Facebook Messenger. 888-564-6173 is our number. And now
let's talk to JJ and San Juan Capistrano, who listens
to Kwave on the Kwave app. Hey, JJ, how can
we help you today?
Hey, what's up guys? Just, uh, my question was on, uh,
(11:02):
Matthew 11:12 where that that uh.
Uh, from the days of John the Baptist until now,
the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence and forceful people
lay hold of it. That's from the NET Bible. But, um,
my question was, uh, what does it mean, really, because, uh,
I went on and got questions and they gave one answer,
and then I asked my friend what they thought about it,
(11:24):
and they told me that the ESB study Bible said
that it means that the king of violence suffers violence
from opposition from the religious establishment.
And the violent taken by force probably refers to actions
of specific evil types like Herod Antipas, who arrested John.
I was just wondering what your take on that verse was.
Thank you. All right, the violin, take it by force.
(11:45):
What does it mean, Pastor Brian?
Well, it, it is a difficult verse, and you will
find a um a number of different attempts to interpret,
you know, just exactly what Jesus is referring to.
Um, and I've, I've taught on this passage before and
walked away feeling like, yeah, I think I got it,
(12:08):
and then later like, wait, what, what?
What was that again? Uh, so I'm gonna go from
uh memory here.
But I, I think.
You know, Jesus is talking about, so from the days
of John the Baptist, um, he's talking about, you know, the,
the period uh that they're in, um, the kingdom of
(12:32):
heaven is suffering violence, yes, um, there's violent opposition to
the ministry of Jesus, and of course, John. Um, there
was violent opposition to John, he was arrested and he
was beheaded. Um, but then, um, the violent take it
by force.
I think could be referring to the fact that.
(12:56):
Because there's opposition to the kingdom, you, if you're gonna
enter the kingdom, you're gonna have to exert, um, you
can't just
This sort of by osmosis enter in. You're, you're gonna
have to press into it, the violent take it by force.
They press into it. And I think when you think
(13:18):
in terms of, say, the advancement of the kingdom, which, uh,
there's different words we could use for that, like, you know,
gospel mission, world evangelation, evangelization, you know, things like that. Um, historically,
as you look and see, the, the gospel.
Always meets with opposition and therefore, there's always the need
(13:40):
for um a and the word violent, I think is
the word that throws us off there, but it's but
the idea is that it's a, uh, you know, like
a violent like the violence of a wave, you know,
like something that has force. You're gonna have to forcefully
advance the kingdom. It's not just gonna happen by sitting
around and wish it.
(14:00):
Is going to happen. So, I think that's the way
I preached it last time, 20 years ago.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Yeah, I do agree that's the English translation of this
Greek word that we make violent, and there is a
uniqueness to this word because it's the only time it's
used in the New Testament. So in other words, we
don't have any other comparison to how did the New
Testament authors think about this in a context, but so
we have to take the larger context of this passage,
(14:27):
which is
The, the violence that was done to John the Baptist
and um and what was going on and how John
the Baptist was was the foreteller, and they're waiting for
the kingdom of God to come, and there's been some pushback.
So I, I do agree that when it talks about
the kingdom of heaven has been advancing, it's done through
(14:47):
intentional work that is shaking up the world and has
to be endured and persevered through. And so I think
Another really good word there for violence would be the
word force. And, and, and it really kind of has
this idea of intentional activity to persevere, to battle through
whatever's kind of facing you at this time, because that
(15:09):
what people were looking forward to and the intensity of,
of suffering that the prophets went through and now John
the Baptist has gone through and just kind of foretelling
this this moment.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah, and, and, you know, once again, um, I'm teaching
through the book of Acts here on Sunday nights, and
we're we're in Acts 14 this past week, and, you know,
looking at um Paul and Barnabas, and they, they go
to
Um, Antioch and Pasidia, and they meet resistance. And, you know,
(15:40):
there's there's a part there, when they go to Iconium,
it's interesting, it says it it talks about how there
was a great opposition to them, and then it says,
and therefore they stayed there for a long time. I
think like, wow, you know, and so that's the kind
of the the kind of force that we're talking about. Um,
you know, the intention was to expel them and get
(16:00):
them out of their ASAP.
But they had to hunker down and say, even though
we're experiencing this opposition, we, we have to be faithful
to the mission. So they stayed there for a long
time in the face of opposition.
JJ, I hope that answers your question. Thanks for calling
in today. 888-564-6173 is our number. And now we'll go
(16:24):
to Brea. Here is Rita listening on FM 107.9K wave. Welcome,
Rita to Pastor's Perspective.
Hi, can you hear me OK? Loud and clear.
Oh good good thank you so much you guys are
just wonderful and I'm so grateful that um you do
your show um and I appreciate that but anyway I
(16:48):
have um a kind of a a question that it
makes me very uncomfortable asking but.
I have a dear friend whose son is 34 years old.
I've watched him grow up and he shows up at
my doorstep the other day and he's ranting and screaming
and using foul language and, and he, he seems like
(17:11):
he might be either demon oppressed or demon possessed, and
he said things to me that were very odd and
I just, I, I said, you know what, you
You belong to Christ and you, God's going to see
you through this, and I, you're going to come out
good on the other side. We're praying for you and
(17:33):
I know that you know Jesus and all the crazy
things I felt like were evil that he was saying.
And am I and and I didn't know if I
should cast out demons because he's been diagnosed as schizophrenic
and by
Polar, which I think he got into things that opened
doors to the enemy. So I didn't, I mean, and
(17:55):
then I want to help him in any way I
can that's biblically sound and right. So I'm, I'm coming
to you guys asking, I pray. I told him, you know,
you belong to Christ. You turn from sin and turn
to Him, and I don't know what else to do.
Is there anything?
All right, Dave Keene, we'll start with you.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Great. You just right out of the gate here. You know, uh, Reed,
I think you actually did very well to encourage him
to turn back to Christ. Um, if he has opened
up a spiritual door to oppression, as a follower of Jesus,
he has to be the one to close it. We,
you know, we can pray for him and, uh, seek
(18:36):
to
You know, turn to to the scriptures, but if there
isn't any desire to do that, uh, basically, I think
the challenge is gonna be to
To allow, um, kind of as Paul talked about, to
allow people who are just in bondished or sin to
be turned over to Satan, so that
(18:57):
You know, that that could get worked out. And I
honestly wonder if there's some type of dynamic where to
be praying for him, but if there's no desire for
him to want to change, uh, you're not gonna, you're
not gonna see that result that we hope for, I think. So,
I think, but what you did though is, is truly to,
(19:18):
you know, to put it back to the truth of
scripture and uh
And just to kind of talk about the, the claim
that Christ has upon him and, and the work of
that the blood of Christ has accomplished in his life.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Brian.
OK, good. I thought, you know, using next time because
I'm planning that he might show up on my door again,
and I thought, I'm just going to give him scripture.
I'm going to say, you know, submit to God, resist
the devil, and he will flee. I thought just using
scripture to talk back to him when he's talking crazy
(19:49):
and saying all the weirdo
things.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
That's, that's definitely how Christ dealt with with the devil. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah, I think too, Rita, just, um, you mentioned the
diagnosis of schizophrenia and um bipolar, and those are real,
those are real conditions, you know, that are mental disorders or,
you know, physiologically who nobody really knows what, what's going
on in the brain that causes these things, but they're
real and oftentimes, um, these, these
(20:21):
Behavioral things that you're describing are quite typical with um
schizophrenic people and or, you know, people who are um
bipolar when they go into the psychotic stage, um, you know,
they're just literally out of their minds. And, and so I,
(20:41):
I don't doubt that there is a demonic influence because
I think the devil.
He is a bully and he takes advantage of, of
any kind of weakness we have, you know, but I
would not, at least immediately say, oh, he's demon possessed.
I think that it's probably more, and the problem so often,
(21:02):
and it sounds like it's probably the problem with him.
is there are medications that can help, and they can, I,
I know several people who have a schizophrenic diagnosis or
a bipolar diagnosis, who live on medication, and for the
most part, they function pretty normally. Um, but a lot
of times what you have is a person who just,
(21:23):
they won't take the medication. They don't believe in it,
or they think, you know, something evils trying to, because
they're crazy, so they can't think, uh, rationally.
So, uh, but like Dave said, you know, you can't
go wrong, praying for him and, uh, sharing God's word
with him and, you know, the Lord can break through, so.
(21:45):
Does this help you, Rita? Well, yeah, it does, it does.
I just wanted to do everything I could possibly do
to help him. So thank you so much. God bless
you guys and thank you. Thank you. All right, Rita,
thanks for calling in today to Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is
our number. Here's a question that was sent in on Instagram.
(22:07):
Angela DM'd us, and she writes, hello, I've read that
we are to put away the lust of the flesh.
The word mentions lust and to stay away from it.
Does that mean that if you're in a marriage that
you cannot lust for or desire your spouse, is it
OK to be filled with desire for your spouse? Dave,
what do you tell Angela?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Uh, I would fully agree that God has given us, uh,
the gift of sex to, to really bond us with
our spouses, and so God created this righteous desire to
be done in the confines of a of a marriage
that's honoring to God.
And so I think we get stuck on how we
(22:49):
abuse these gifts that God has given us. And so
one of the abuses of the gift of sex is
that we lust and we desire for things that are
not meant for us, that are outside the bounds of
marriage and with people that are not our spouses. And so,
usually when when you see the word lust in scripture,
(23:09):
it's usually a desire that you're seeking to fulfill inappropriately.
It's not
The righteous desires that God has given us for our
husband or our spouse or our wife, whatever marriage um component,
it really is that desire that God has given us
is good, but when we abuse that desire, that's what
(23:29):
becomes wrong. And so, um, yeah, I mean, I, I
think my wife and I've been married for 33 years
and it's been a healthy, passionate desire I have for
her that has kept our marriage in a healthy place.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Pastor Bryant.
Yeah, I, I mean, you know, that is where those
desires are to be fulfilled. It, you know, what the
Bible is warning us against is fulfilling them in the
context that God doesn't.
Permitted in, so yeah, you, your husband, your wife, that's
(24:01):
the place. Angela, thank you for sending in your question
on Instagram and now we're gonna go to Alexander who's
listening to FM 107.9 K wave in Crest line. Welcome, Alexander.
Uh, welcome, gentlemen. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. Uh,
so my question today, um, might be a little controversial.
(24:23):
I'm not entirely sure why though, because, you know, the
offer of grace through faith in Jesus is available to everyone.
The Lord says.
Every nation, tribe, and tongue will gather around the throne
and of all things, but my question is about Israel, uh,
specifically the modern ethno state of Israel.
There seems to be so many verses that talk about
(24:46):
Israel being like the children of God are the children
of the promise, not the children of the flesh. And again,
this isn't based in any sort of like malice or
bias towards anyone. But how do we justify the end
times view that all genealogical Israel will be saved with,
(25:07):
you know, a multitude of verses kind of speaking against
that idea. OK, Brian.
Well, first of all, I, I would challenge the idea
that there's a multitude of verses that speak against it.
I don't really think that that's the case. I think
there are some interpretations of verses that, you know, kind
(25:27):
of cause people to go in that direction. But, um,
before we we get into that, um,
Funny enough, I just finished reading Deuteronomy this morning, and
I was, I was reading the, the final chapter. It was,
it was interesting as I was sitting there reading it
because I've actually been in the very place that it
was describing and I was so I was reading it
(25:49):
and I was kind of visualizing what was happening. Let
me read, let me read to you just the first
part of it. Then Moses climbed Mount Nebo from the
plains of Moab to the top of Pisa, across from Jericho.
There the Lord showed him the whole land from Gilead
to Dan, all naftily the territory of Ephraim and Manassa,
(26:10):
all the land of Judah as far as the Mediterranean Sea,
the Negev, and the whole region.
Of the valley of Jericho, the city of Palms as
far as Soar. Then the Lord said to him, This
is the land I promised on oath to Abraham, Isaac,
and Jacob. When I said I will give it to
(26:32):
your descendants.
I have let you see it with your eyes, but
you will not cross over to it. So this is
one of the many, many, many, many, many places in
Scripture where we are told that this land
was given by God to the descendants of Abraham, Isaac,
(26:54):
and Jacob.
Now, we, when you, you know, look close at things,
what you
Not everybody realizes this, but, but some do. The, the seed,
so God promises to Abraham, right? He promises that in
you and your seed all the nations of the earth
will be blessed. And so we know that's the, that's
(27:14):
the Messianic promise there.
Um, Paul in Galatians, he says something really interesting. He
says the promise was not to seeds as of many,
but to seed singular, the seed being Christ.
So,
The promise of God.
(27:35):
Is that Christ will be the one who will uh
possess all of these things and through Christ,
The other descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will, will
then possess the land, ultimately.
Now, the problem in modern Israel is that
(27:55):
Uh, the seed singular is rejected.
And so the people trying to possess the land, apart
from the Messiah, it can't happen, it will never happen. Um,
but there is a time coming when, uh, the people
will receive the Messiah, and through the reception of the Messiah,
(28:18):
they will then inherit the promises. And if you take
and look carefully at Romans 11,
It it's crystal clear in Romans 11. Well, maybe it's
not crystal clear because it seems like it is, but,
you know, obviously some people see it differently, but when
you look at Romans 11, uh, Paul talks about three
(28:41):
groups of people.
He talks about himself, who is a descendant, uh, he,
he is a Jew who is part of a remnant.
He talks about the church, and then he talks about Israel.
A people who are presently.
Um,
(29:03):
Enemies for the gospel's sake, but beloved for the sake
of the fathers. So here's here's a group of people
that are outside of what God is doing right now,
but will be grafted back in in the future.
So we'll come back after the break and Dave can
follow up with that. And also, Dave's colleague, Carmen Is
(29:27):
was here on Monday's program, and she gave a great
answer to a similar question that we had. So check
that out in the Pastor's perspective archives on Facebook, YouTube,
Spotify and Apple Podcasts. It is break time now. We
will be back in a few minutes to answer.
Or more of the questions you have about the Bible,
the Christian faith, just about anything that's on your mind,
888-564-6173 is our number. We've got Brian Broderson here to
(29:52):
answer your questions and Dave Keen from Viola University, 888-564-6173.
(30:18):
We're back on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is the number to call,
and we're gonna be here for another 25 minutes or so.
So grab an open line, 888-564-6173. Answering your questions today,
Brian Broderson, one of the pastors at Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa,
also Dave Keene, the teaching pastor.
(30:40):
At No, hold on. Cornerstone Community Church in St. Clemente.
You can find out more about them if you're looking
for a church in the St. Clemente area. Where's your
church's website? I just had it up here, cornerstoneonline.org. Check
that out. But we were just talking to Alexander from Crestline,
called in with a question about Israel. We heard what
Pastor Bryan said. Now let's hear from Pastor Dave.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
You know, one of the things when I think about
Israel as God's chosen people, they've been God's chosen people
from the beginning.
And Romans 9 makes it very clear that that was
God's choice, you know, they didn't deserve it any more
than anybody else. They didn't do anything cause God chose
Jacob in the womb, and
(31:23):
So you see the story of God's people being chosen,
but not all of these people became regenerate.
And believing in God, right? That you see God's punishment
of the people of Israel that he chose that he
delivered out of Egypt, that they would sin. And so
even though they were God's chosen people, it didn't mean
(31:44):
automatic salvation. And I think when you think about Israel
in the future, this is still God's people. You know,
Romans 11, it is very clear that God's call are irrevocable.
It's not like, well, that was for a time and
So there is something special about Israel throughout history, but
it doesn't mean that all people who claim to be
(32:07):
of Israel are going to be saved. It really, I think,
is a different type of election. These are guys's people
that he has favored, that he has graced, but some
of them are still rebelling against God and and choosing
to go a different way. And so I think we
have to take that kind, you know, that complete picture
of election of what does it mean to have Israel
being uh
(32:28):
An elected nation in the future.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Yeah, and, and 9, 10 and 11 of Romans are
really such a key in understanding all of this because
Paul specifically, you know, Romans 1 through 8, Paul is
addressing primarily he's addressing the, the issue of, um, salvation
for all people, and he's giving us understanding and detail and,
(32:53):
you know, about sin and why we needed a savior
and what Jesus did and so forth.
And then when he comes to chapter 9, he turns
to the subject that people were asking questions about then,
just like they're asking now. Well what about Israel? And so, 9,
10 and 11, he explains that.
Alexander, what do you think?
(33:14):
Oh, thank you, gentlemen, both for your answer. It's definitely,
it's such an interesting topic because
There's verses that come to mind like not all who
are born of Israel are Israel. All the promises of
God in Christ are yes and amen in Christ, right?
There's a passage in Joshua that talks about all the
promises of God to Israel were fulfilled, and I think
(33:36):
these are the land promises. There's obviously eternal promises that
are fulfilled in Christ.
But it's just, uh, yeah, honestly, I could, I could
talk for hours on this one, but I thank you
guys so much for your time and, uh, I, I'll
call back again. How about you guys. Thanks, Alexander.
Thank you for calling in today at 888-564-6173.
Here's a question that was sent in online, and, uh,
(33:59):
this is from Rosalina in Murrieta, who went to Kwave.com
and filled out the uh form there. I recently heard
a message from CS Lewis in which he stated that
we are not to wear any clothing that has any
evil or wicked symbols on it.
I agree. My question, however, is that he also mentioned
that there are symbols or designs that signify something in
(34:20):
a culture that we may not be aware of, and
by wearing these articles of clothing, we are promoting those beliefs.
After watching this, I went through my closet, and I
happened to have quite a few dresses that had these
symbols and designs.
I'd like some clarification as to whether I should no
longer wear them. Mister Lewis also said to destroy them
(34:41):
and throw them away. No problem, but I'd like to
know your perspective on this, Brian. OK, well, first of all, um,
I don't think she was listening to CS Lewis because
CS Lewis died.
In 1963, uh, there were very few recordings of CS Lewis,
and none of them would have ever dealt with anything
(35:01):
like this, nor would CS Lewis, uh, I, I can't
imagine CS Lewis saying anything that even would come close
to what she thinks he said. CS Lewis wrote.
Um, the Chronicles of Narnia, um, you know, many Christians
are offended by CS Lewis because he would use, um,
(35:24):
you know, imagery from, uh, you know, the world of
magic and things like that. So, so wherever she got
this teaching, uh, let me just say it wasn't from
CS Lewis.
And um.
That, that all of that kind of stuff that you
(35:46):
just communicated there, um, who, regardless of who said it, it,
it smacks of superstition. And I think, uh, you know,
I mean, obviously, you know, you don't wanna put a
pentagram around your neck and walk around and go, man,
this is such a cool symbol. I love this.
Um, because it's directly connected to the occult, but somebody
(36:07):
might do it in ignorance, and, you know, not know
any better, and nothing's gonna happen to him for it. So, so,
but these kinds of things like, oh, your clothes, and
there's gonna be a curse on this, and well, you
gotta get rid of that and burn this, and that's
more superstition than Christianity.
What do you think, Dave, Dave?
Speaker 2 (36:24):
You know, scripture, when it does talk about our clothing, it, it,
it always talks about like, you know, we wear what
we wear, not to draw attention to ourselves. That's why,
you know, women wear dress in modesty. But I think
the overall principle here, you know, looking at perhaps, you know,
Colossians 3:17 when it says, and whatever you do, whether
(36:45):
in word or deed, do it all in the name
of Lord Jesus Christ giving thanks to the God and
the Father through him. So the idea is
If I wear this, am I glorifying God? I think
that's the key question is that, am I, if you
know something is not glorifying God now, well then perhaps
you just need to stop wearing it for yourself, not
because of the, the message, but you're just feeling like
(37:08):
this is putting out a uh a symbol that that
you can't agree with. Well then maybe, maybe for yourself,
go ahead, but
Um, once again, I don't, I think the idea is
like we don't be intentionally, you know, leading people astray, but, um,
I think it really comes back to what's the heart
position for whatever we wear, whatever clothing we choose should
always come back to like, God, thank you for how
(37:30):
you make me look, and I want to honor you
and in my dress and my appearance. And I think
if you have that type of mentality, you're going to
make wise choices regarding your clothing, regardless of what symbols
are on it.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
So I just did a quick search online. The only
thing I could find is a YouTube channel that has
CS Lewis's name in it. CS Lewis Legends. Yes, yeah, well, these,
these are the things people made up about right, and,
and the, uh, description.
Says CS Lewis inspired. So this person who's got 297,000 subscribers,
(38:06):
oh my goodness, is, is, I guess going around saying, well,
you know, CS Lewis may not have talked about what
types of clothes you should wear, but if he did,
this is what he was.
This CS Lewis sermon, you know, CS Lewis was not
a pastor. He wasn't even really a preacher. He was
a professor, a university professor and an author. And of course,
(38:26):
he did speak on occasions. He was a lecturer, but
you know, I, yeah, this is.
I mean, I, I'm a big, big CS Lewis fan
and this is kind of offends me a little bit
this website. I'm gonna.
Tell people, don't go. Do not be part of the.
300,000 people that are following, get off their ASAP. Yes, please. And, uh, Rosalina,
(38:51):
thank you for letting us know about this page and
also for sending in your question through the uh Kwave.com
pastor's perspective page. 888-564-6173 is the number to call.
Tell us today. Here's another question that was sent in online.
This one through Facebook. It is from Christy in Somerville,
South Carolina. And she writes, we have a talented young
(39:13):
musician who often live streams using their phone during Sunday worship.
Over the past year, this person has made a career
shift and is working to make their living from the
proceeds of TikTok and social media.
Sometimes doing battles with other social media teams and competing
for the most money sent to their channel. Anyway, this
person has also posted videos of themselves on vacation celebrating
(39:38):
their new lifestyle as a result of earnings from this
career change. I've learned that this person is collecting funds
while live streaming church worship as people's donations or tips
to the channel are visible during the live stream.
I assume this person tithes, but there are no indications
that the funds from church worship will go toward the
church or a particular ministry or missions, etc. This person
(40:01):
is also a close relative of the head pastor, and
the family is very supportive of their musical endeavors. I
originally assumed this person was streaming as a way to.
Outreach and they sometimes refer to their channel as though
it were an outreach. However, the emphasis on money in
their livestream events suggests that money is more of the objective.
(40:23):
Is it appropriate for someone to live stream church worship
if it is for their own personal financial gain?
So again, not knowing, I mean, there's a lot in there,
but we don't know if Christie's saying that this person
is sitting at the keyboards on a Sunday morning and
they've got their phone propped up and they're live streaming
as they lead worship, and then people are tipping online.
(40:46):
Maybe that's what's going on here or maybe the person
is live streaming from the beach. The worship services, I
don't know, but, uh, based on what we have here,
what would you guys say, Brian?
Well, I think the fact that.
That she's troubled by that is understandable. I, I think
it is a bit troubling.
(41:09):
Um, and if.
It's been brought to the attention of the church leadership,
and they are cool with it. I think that's probably
a little troubling too, so.
I don't know. I, I mean, you know, is, is
this her church? Does she go to this church? Uh,
we have a talented young musician who often live streams,
(41:31):
so yes, must be. I mean, you know, I, who knows?
I mean, maybe you need to push a little further
into asking, you know, what's going on with this, and
if you don't get a an answer that you feel
like is is the right one, then maybe you reconsider
where you're at.
And Christie did say that this is the a close
(41:52):
relative of the head pastor, so maybe she's afraid that
they're not gonna give me a good answer. They're just
going to defend their that that that could be the case, yeah,
so what do you think Dave?
Speaker 2 (42:03):
I think, uh, too often, um,
Pastors feel like.
Uh
There's uh opportunities to allow others to, you know, use their,
their abilities for themselves and and this this one doesn't
feel good. This feels like there's a conflict of interest
(42:26):
at the very least. And what's even worse, it feels
kind of slimy, like you're, you're taking what should be
worshipful and truly connecting people to God and making it
about yourself at the very least.
You know, it should be streamed on the church's website,
not his personal website. You know, you, you're not really
(42:46):
meant to promote yourself in worship. So, and
Speaker 1 (42:50):
maybe they're doing both,
but, well, I
Speaker 2 (42:52):
assume they're doing both, but the fact that one is
being tolerated, you know, uh, the, the personal promotion is
being tolerated, that, that doesn't seem on the up and up.
There seems to be something unfortunate there and that's
Too often I think pastors, um, turn their blind eye
when they, if it's someone especially that they're related to
(43:14):
that may be taking something in in an abusive way,
where there's an abuse of opportunity and abuse of power,
and I think that's that's a warning sign for a
church that may not have its focus where it really
should be.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Would this be the equivalent of busking on a street corner, and,
you know, playing worship music, hoping that people will stop
by and throw a few dollars in your guitar case? Uh, I,
I don't think so, but if you, because the church
is the platform that's where, you know, um.
People are being drawn to that, so no, I think,
you know, you can go out and busk and you're
(43:51):
you're doing the work out there. And if you're doing
worship songs busking, you're kind of, you know, sharing the gospel,
so true. Or is this an example of just the
way we're taking worship services nowadays, where the worship is
more about the, you know, the performance and the
You know, it's not just like, like you were saying
(44:11):
where the the purpose of worship on a Sunday morning
is to be worshiping, but you're doing this, and again,
maybe he's live streaming to people who can't be there,
we don't know, but.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Yeah, the worship service has definitely been impacted by technology. Um,
I have a conversation with my students in one of
my classes at at Baola about when you're worshiping, but
it's a professional band or the music's just a little
too loud, you know, what is that communicating to the
person in there that I'm here for a show, I'm
(44:43):
here to watch because it's so loud. I'm not.
I can't hear myself sing or the person next to
me saying it's not a communal experience anymore. It's more
of a an emotional experience now. And so I think
we have allowed things to replace an intimacy that used
to be there with uh with God.
(45:03):
Um, because we're, we're leaning on technology, um, and so
I think, you know, it's one thing to stream a
worship service, it's another thing to seek private profit off
of a worship.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
Do you think we should be writing worship services using,
or worship songs using AI or any Christian songs using AI?
Well, if we're not really creative, then I guess we
probably need to use AI to help us.
Yeah
I don't think so. I, I mean, you know, worship
is the, the essence of worship is, is the heart.
(45:42):
It's, it's not even, you know, it's not even the,
the skill. I mean, skill is good, but the essence
of it is the heart. So if you're
You know, you're just popping a couple of of words
into AI and saying, hey, come up with a worship
song for me here. I don't know, yeah, cause AI
doesn't have a heart, so there's no heart behind it. Right,
(46:03):
now someone would say, OK, I have good intentions, I'm
Programming these words, I don't know what the terminology is
for AI, but I'm, I'm, I'm feeding it. These are
the words, these are the themes that I want the
song to talk about. Yeah.
So that's a person, so even though AI doesn't have
a heart, the person programming it.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
I think the concern would be the theology that the
song would then be built upon because there's, you'd have
to give the prompt, you have to give so many
prompts to the AI machine to really have a good
theological perspective of that. I think you defeat the purpose
of songwriting, you know, because what are we trying to
do in this moment?
(46:46):
is not simply create an atmosphere, we're not simply trying
to create a mood. We really are seeking to connect
people to the heart of God using the truth of God. And,
and that's the, that's what worship is about. It's, it's
this beautiful
Tool that, you know, singing engages more of your brain
than any other activity. And, and so what we're meant
(47:08):
to do is, can we connect our brains and emotions
to God and song in a way that honors him
and I think that's a very intentional act that we
don't want to give up to, to,
Speaker 1 (47:21):
yeah, and I, and I think in the writing side
of it, you're looking, you're looking to inspiration.
Even as you're, you know, you're, you're developing a song,
not inspiration like the equivalent of
The inspiration of scripture, but, you know, that you sense
God is giving you, like when you're preaching, you know, we,
(47:42):
we sense an uh an empowerment through uh preaching at times,
and you, you know the Lord is helping you, you
know the Lord's giving you recall, you know, he's bringing
stuff to you and writing a song, you, you want
those components there as well, which obviously you're not gonna
get with a machine.
Very true, very true. All right, to the phones, back, uh,
(48:03):
back to the phones. Alex in Midway City, I'm assuming.
Welcome to Pastor's Perspective.
Uh thank you. Yeah, what's your question for us today?
OK, my question was,
Does the pastor have?
The right to
I went out of church.
(48:25):
Does the pastor have the right to throw anyone out
of church? Did this happen to you, Alex?
No, no, me, but my church is staying kind of
small because, uh,
I see this happening continuously. OK, do you know why
people are being thrown out of your church?
(48:45):
Uh, for personal issues, I believe, because
He's not giving us a, a full rundown on, on
why I thought it was.
You should bring that to.
Somebody
You know, at least 3 people for, you can have
so many have objective ideas, you know, and just
(49:08):
It's literally the that our church is mostly his family.
But do you think these people are being thrown out
for the lifestyle they're living or their views? What is
it that you think? Do you have any idea?
For, for their views. And what kind of views?
(49:29):
Just they're not agreeable with him. And they, they, they
questioned him in an open forum. Right. Which maybe that's
wrong for doing that. I don't see any disrespectful. Yeah,
you know, the, um, Alex, the, the Bible does give
place for what what we call church discipline at times
(49:51):
and under certain circumstances that are, you know, severe.
Um, there is a time and a place for people
to be set outside the fellowship, and, you know, to
give them a chance to really reconsider and to get
their hearts right with the Lord, and then hopefully they
can be welcomed back in. But
(50:14):
If this is something that is just kind of and
and I would say that would be rare. So if
this is like a common occurrence in your church, I
would say that that's a problem.
Speaker 2 (50:27):
Yeah, it sounds similar to the previous question about the
role of the pastor and maybe abusing power. If if
a pastor is simply excluding people who do not agree
with him, then that's really not um a biblical form
of leadership, because a biblical form of leadership is servanthood
and trying to include others in the process of of
(50:49):
leading a church. And so if
If the exclusion and, you know, the removing people from
your church is simply because they're not going to go
along with your vision, there's there's deeper concern there and
perhaps some some unhealthiness that can be addressed by, you know,
a plurality of, of elders, you know, whenever there's just
(51:12):
one pastor over a church it's too easy to abuse power.
So that's where if you have a a plurality of
elders coming together and
And deciding things together, you really have some checks and
balances that it's not just one person's church or one
person's perspective that that dominates and you could really hopefully
(51:33):
find ways to engage people.
Speaker 1 (51:37):
Cultish, do you think? Yeah, it, yeah, you know, there's different,
a lot of times when we think of a cult,
we think automatically of doctrinal uh error, which is certainly there,
but there's also sociological elements to a cult and control
is one of them. So this sounds a bit cultish, yeah.
(51:59):
And, you know, I would just say to Alex, there's
there's lots of great churches where that kind of stuff
is not happening and you want to be in a
place where you can really grow and you can be
maturing and serving and, you know, sounds like you're you're
there in a situation where a person has kind of
their own, you know, their own agenda and you either
(52:23):
get on board or you move on. So, probably not
the healthiest.
Doesn't sound like it. Nope. Alex, thank you for calling
in today on Pastor's Perspective. Let's do at least one more,
maybe two. Haley wrote in online through Facebook. What foods
were consistent in the Passover and what did they represent?
Other question Was Jesus aware when he was younger or
(52:43):
a teen that he would be sacrificed? And how do
you think he handled it as a youngster?
Any thoughts on that, Dave?
Either one or both.
Speaker 2 (52:53):
Well, he always was God. Jesus did not give up
his deity, even when he took on 100% humanity. He
was developing in characteristics, um, so there are aspects of
his cognitive development and his physical development that are that
are growing, but I don't think he never ceased being
God and therefore, in his foreknowledge, he knew he had
(53:14):
a mission.
Um, I think even back in John 3 when he
was talking to Nicodemus, he, he knew that he had
come for a specific purpose and not just, um, was random.
So there probably was some real perspective that Jesus had
about his, um, eternal mission that would eventually lead to
the cross. I don't think he confronted that regularly until
(53:35):
probably his ministry time when he foretold his disciples.
I am gonna go to the cross to be crucified,
but I think because he was God, he was all knowing,
and and that was gonna be part of his, his thinking,
even though he had humanity that he was growing it
as well.
Speaker 1 (53:54):
Right. Yeah, and the and the Passover, you can read
in um Exodus chapter 12, you can read right there,
it just tells you every, you know, the, the bitter
herbs and the unleavened bread and of course there was
the lamb.
Uh, which, uh, uh, in modern Judaism, they don't necessarily,
you know, do the lamb. But anyway, you can, you
(54:16):
can read about it right there. Brian, I have a
question for you as we finish, I think I saw
on um Instagram, you're gonna be, where are you gonna
be on Saturday night?
Oh, that, yes, yes, the SoCal harvest Crusade is coming
to Angel Stadium in Anaheim. So yes, I'm, you know,
Greg Laurie's giving the message. I'm not giving the message,
but I'm gonna be, you know, I saw this Instagram.
(54:37):
I thought, well, they've got Brian speaking this year. No, no, no,
they don't want to do that. But yeah, Kwave is
gonna be there and, uh, stop by Wavehi will be at.
The Kwave booth outside the stadium. Plus we'll also be
live streaming the Harvest Crusade on the Kwave Facebook page,
and we're gonna be doing like a little pre-party ahead
of time. So join us at 6 o'clock or so.
You can register and get all the details on the
(55:00):
Kwave Facebook page. So yes, that's what I'm gonna be
doing on that, right? Fun.
Dave Keene, thanks for joining us again today, man.
Speaker 2 (55:07):
My pleasure. Always good to be here.
Speaker 1 (55:08):
Dave's
the teaching pastor at Cornerstone Community Church in Saint Clemente.
You can find out more about them at cornerstoneOnline.org and
find out more about the Adam Keane Foundation that we
talked about at the beginning of the program. Adam KeaneFoundation.com
is that website, and it'll be updated soon with the
information about the, uh, the event, the fundraiser that's number
Speaker 2 (55:30):
6 down in Sany. If you play an instrument.
Let me know. Love to have you come join our team.
Speaker 1 (55:35):
Very good. All right, Adam Keane Foundation.com. Keen spelled K
E E H N, Adam Keanfoundation.com. All right. God bless
you guys. Today's program will be archived on Facebook, YouTube,
Apple Podcasts, and Spotify a little bit later, and then
join us again tomorrow. Call in with your questions here
on Pastor's Perspective. Phone lines open about 7 minutes before
(55:57):
3 o'clock. Thanks for listening and watching.
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez.
Special thanks to Michael David for filling in for me yesterday.
I am back today and we are ready to talk
to you at 888-564-6173. We've got Brian Broderson, one of
the pastors at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa here to answer
your questions at 888-564-6173. We've also got Dave Keene. He's
(00:41):
the teaching pastor at Cornerstone Community Church in San Clementa.
And he is also the professor and chair of Christian
ministries at the Talbot or Talbot School of Theology at Talbot,
why am I not that doesn't sound right. It's close.
It's Talbot
Speaker 2 (00:57):
School of Theology at Bor University. That's yeah, so I
was big mouthful.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
I was heading in the right direction. I just lost
confidence in myself. Well, you know, you've said that so
many times. Yes, you're a little bit out of practice.
I need that. I take one day. Well, no, there's
not been a bio, no, because Carmen was here on Monday.
She was on the program.
And not in studio, no, but so I was saying
biola then, but I don't know. I take a day
off and I forget how to do everything.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
It's one of those words that sometimes trips you up.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, I don't know
why. Talbot School of Theology at Biola University, the most
comprehensively Christian university in North America. I still remember that. Yeah,
Speaker 2 (01:32):
there you go. That's all that needs to be said.
That's
Speaker 1 (01:34):
888-564-6173 is the number to call us today. You can
also send in your questions online.
And you can do that on the pastor's perspective Facebook
page by using Messenger, or you can DM us on
the pastor's perspective Instagram, or go to Kwave.com and look
for the pastor's perspective page there, and you can fill
out the form that gets your question to us, or
(01:56):
you can scan the QR code.
On YouTube, Instagram, or Facebook, if you're watching online right now.
There's a QR code there, scan it, that takes you
to that page where you can fill out that form. Now,
as we wait for your questions to come in, uh, Dave,
why don't you tell us for a few minutes about the,
the Adam Keane Foundation?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah, thank you. My son, Adam was a youth pastor, um,
Unfamiliar to, uh, I didn't realize he had that passion, uh,
because he didn't necessarily demonstrate that called the ministry when
he was growing up. But, uh, when he went into college,
went to Bioola and God just captured his heart with
the gospel, and he served at Mariners's Church, Irvine on
(02:38):
their middle school staff and then was the junior high
pastor at a church in Glendora.
Uh, unfortunately, 3 years ago, uh, he passed away suddenly
of a brain aneurysm. And, uh, one of the ways
that our family has been dealing with grief is to
seek to honor him and his legacy for the gospel.
And so we started a foundation that comes alongside other
(03:02):
brand new youth pastors. That's our target is someone who's
just entering ministry and saying how can we
Equip them? How can we build them up and give
them resources? Adam had a lot of mentors in his
life and so that's what we do. We seek to
attach a veteran youth pastor and coach the this young, uh,
youth pastor in this first year of how do you
(03:23):
develop your ministry? How do you reach more students for
the gospel? And so we provide what we call ministry
development coaching.
And so as this young youth pastor, uh, is starting
that process, um, they're creating new opportunities to share the
gospel in our community, and then our foundation not just
coaches them up, but actually then gives them a financial
(03:43):
grant to make that ministry happen. And so we started
a couple of years ago, um, last year we were
able to coach 6 youth pastors across the United States
and Canada. And as the
Foundation are growing, we're adding on an additional 9 that
will start this fall with us. We we actually made
the decision to continue coaching those additional, those 1st 6,
(04:06):
but this would be now in um spiritual formation for
themselves because we've been asking questions like what will help
a new youth pastor stay in the game for the
long haul. And so the first year is learn more
about ministry development and the second year is more spiritual
formation development. And uh so you can read more about it,
the Adam Keane Foundation.
Uh, dot com. And we have a fundraiser coming up.
(04:28):
Adam's birthday was September 7th, and so that weekend, September 6th,
we're actually hosting at our church in San Clemente a
large tri-tip barbecue and worship concert, and I thought I
would just, it's not on the website yet because we're
putting out, uh, just a call if there are young, uh,
Christian artists out there, they're looking for a venue to
(04:49):
To try some songs that we're just gonna have a
kind of a time to bring in artists who are
willing to donate their time, and we'll give them a
space to be heard and, uh, and try to say
how do we just kind of glorify God as we
come together and worship, as well as listen to new
artists and eat some good tri-tip barbecue. So,
The date for that will be September 6th down in
(05:11):
San Clemente.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Pastor Brian used to be in a band. You should
break out the guitar and, well, you know, used to
is the, uh, that's the key break might be a
little rusty, a little, little rusty, but my 14 year
old grandson.
is in a band and they just we did our VBS,
you know, and their band kind of led the whole
(05:32):
worship for it and they did a fantastic.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Yeah, I mean, those are the kind of things we're
looking for is, um, just people who have, you know,
maybe a couple of songs that they wrote that they
want to play for people. Um, you can actually contact
us through our Gmail. It's Adam Keanfoundation@gmail.com is our simple
email and
Just let us know you're interested in coming down and
playing on the 6th of September in the evening and
(05:56):
uh we'll be putting more information out on our website,
but we're still just looking for young Christian artists that
want a place to play and
You know, a chance to shine. So that's kind of the,
that's kind of the vibe of Adam. Like, I love
how we've been able to connect with young youth pastors
across the United States and Canada, and we have veteran
coaches who are donating their kind, veteran youth pastors who
(06:19):
catch this vision of building up the next generation of
young leaders because that's the future of, of the church, right?
These are young youth pastors that will become the next
teaching pastors and church planters and senior leaders.
Of churches and so we want to help these young
men and women stay in the game.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
So
that's great. Yep. And Adam Keanfoundation.com is that website. Keane
is spelled K E E H N, Adam Keaneoundation.com or
email adam Keanefoundation@gmail.com, and all the details will be there
on the website, uh, soon, momentarily, but uh what a
(06:55):
great opportunity.
888-564-6173 is the number to call us today. Where are
my Facebook questions? Did I hand them to you? Would
you mind? Thank you. OK. So let's read one that
was sent in online before we go to the phones.
This one is from Gloria in Ontario, who says, I
would like to know what to say to someone who says,
(07:16):
I'm a Christian. I'm just not a practicing Christian. To me,
that's not a Christian then. Am I wrong? What can
I say to them to help them understand? Brian, what
do you tell Gloria?
Well, I, I think obviously you want to have a
little bit more of a conversation with them about just
what do they mean by that and how, how do
(07:38):
they see that as, as, you know, a possibility. Um, I,
I would, I would imagine they probably are thinking like, well, yeah, I,
you know, I, I, I, I, I believe in Jesus,
you know, Jesus is, of course, Jesus is the son
of God, but I'm just doing my own thing. That's
a a lot of people. So they would say on
the one hand they're Christian, but
(07:58):
Um, uh, but of course, you know, scripture tells us, um, uh,
that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord
or takes the name of the Lord is to depart
from sin. And so if you're not actively pursuing your
what the Bible calls sanctification, um, growing in holiness and
(08:20):
becoming more like Jesus, then
Uh, you might be a Christian, but you're, you're far
from what God intends for you to be, and so
you have to, I, I mean, it is possible, you know,
there are people that are genuinely Christians who are just
stalled out somewhere in sin or in negligence or whatever.
(08:43):
And uh they, they need to, you know, they need
to get serious about the Lord. Dave, I don't know
if you, you probably have had this experience. I've, I've
had experiences over the years where, say, I, I would
have somebody come in to see me pastorally, and I
would sit down with them, and my initial thought was
this person is not a Christian.
And after an hour of conversation, I thought, oh my gosh,
(09:06):
this person actually is a Christian. They're just in bad shape,
you know, they're not in their discipleship has stalled out somewhere.
And then I'd have other people come in and start
off and I'd think, oh, that's surely this person is
a Christian, and an hour later I'm like, this person
not even saved. So, I mean those can be kind
of challenging, but it takes a little probing, little little more.
(09:32):
Uh, getting down to, OK, what, what are we talking
about here? And then going back to scripture and saying, OK,
let's look at what the Bible says about what it
is to be a Christian.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah, I would agree with the reality that this has
to be a conversation and not just a judgment. The
concern is that they're saying, I'm not a practicing Christian. I,
I want to know why don't you practice and what
does that mean? Does it mean you don't follow the
teachings of Jesus anymore? You're not believing in in who
God is. I know.
(10:01):
When people go through grief, there's a time of of
doubt and struggle that people might say, I just don't know,
and so they might pull back from obedience, but
Scripture's pretty clear, you know, the, you know, Jesus actually
says in Luke chapter 6 verse 46, you know, why
do you call me Lord if you don't do what
I say? So, if we are gonna be saying I'm
(10:24):
a follower of Jesus, and maybe the short term in
our vernaculars I'm a Christian, there really should be action
and fruit to back that up, otherwise you're
It, it really doesn't mean a whole lot. So I
think that I, there's worth having deeper conversations.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Yeah.
Gloria, thank you for sending in your question on the
Pastor's perspective Facebook Messenger. 888-564-6173 is our number. And now
let's talk to JJ and San Juan Capistrano, who listens
to Kwave on the Kwave app. Hey, JJ, how can
we help you today?
Hey, what's up guys? Just, uh, my question was on, uh,
(11:02):
Matthew 11:12 where that that uh.
Uh, from the days of John the Baptist until now,
the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence and forceful people
lay hold of it. That's from the NET Bible. But, um,
my question was, uh, what does it mean, really, because, uh,
I went on and got questions and they gave one answer,
and then I asked my friend what they thought about it,
(11:24):
and they told me that the ESB study Bible said
that it means that the king of violence suffers violence
from opposition from the religious establishment.
And the violent taken by force probably refers to actions
of specific evil types like Herod Antipas, who arrested John.
I was just wondering what your take on that verse was.
Thank you. All right, the violin, take it by force.
(11:45):
What does it mean, Pastor Brian?
Well, it, it is a difficult verse, and you will
find a um a number of different attempts to interpret,
you know, just exactly what Jesus is referring to.
Um, and I've, I've taught on this passage before and
walked away feeling like, yeah, I think I got it,
(12:08):
and then later like, wait, what, what?
What was that again? Uh, so I'm gonna go from
uh memory here.
But I, I think.
You know, Jesus is talking about, so from the days
of John the Baptist, um, he's talking about, you know, the,
the period uh that they're in, um, the kingdom of
(12:32):
heaven is suffering violence, yes, um, there's violent opposition to
the ministry of Jesus, and of course, John. Um, there
was violent opposition to John, he was arrested and he
was beheaded. Um, but then, um, the violent take it
by force.
I think could be referring to the fact that.
(12:56):
Because there's opposition to the kingdom, you, if you're gonna
enter the kingdom, you're gonna have to exert, um, you
can't just
This sort of by osmosis enter in. You're, you're gonna
have to press into it, the violent take it by force.
They press into it. And I think when you think
(13:18):
in terms of, say, the advancement of the kingdom, which, uh,
there's different words we could use for that, like, you know,
gospel mission, world evangelation, evangelization, you know, things like that. Um, historically,
as you look and see, the, the gospel.
Always meets with opposition and therefore, there's always the need
(13:40):
for um a and the word violent, I think is
the word that throws us off there, but it's but
the idea is that it's a, uh, you know, like
a violent like the violence of a wave, you know,
like something that has force. You're gonna have to forcefully
advance the kingdom. It's not just gonna happen by sitting
around and wish it.
(14:00):
Is going to happen. So, I think that's the way
I preached it last time, 20 years ago.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Yeah, I do agree that's the English translation of this
Greek word that we make violent, and there is a
uniqueness to this word because it's the only time it's
used in the New Testament. So in other words, we
don't have any other comparison to how did the New
Testament authors think about this in a context, but so
we have to take the larger context of this passage,
(14:27):
which is
The, the violence that was done to John the Baptist
and um and what was going on and how John
the Baptist was was the foreteller, and they're waiting for
the kingdom of God to come, and there's been some pushback.
So I, I do agree that when it talks about
the kingdom of heaven has been advancing, it's done through
(14:47):
intentional work that is shaking up the world and has
to be endured and persevered through. And so I think
Another really good word there for violence would be the
word force. And, and, and it really kind of has
this idea of intentional activity to persevere, to battle through
whatever's kind of facing you at this time, because that
(15:09):
what people were looking forward to and the intensity of,
of suffering that the prophets went through and now John
the Baptist has gone through and just kind of foretelling
this this moment.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah, and, and, you know, once again, um, I'm teaching
through the book of Acts here on Sunday nights, and
we're we're in Acts 14 this past week, and, you know,
looking at um Paul and Barnabas, and they, they go
to
Um, Antioch and Pasidia, and they meet resistance. And, you know,
(15:40):
there's there's a part there, when they go to Iconium,
it's interesting, it says it it talks about how there
was a great opposition to them, and then it says,
and therefore they stayed there for a long time. I
think like, wow, you know, and so that's the kind
of the the kind of force that we're talking about. Um,
you know, the intention was to expel them and get
(16:00):
them out of their ASAP.
But they had to hunker down and say, even though
we're experiencing this opposition, we, we have to be faithful
to the mission. So they stayed there for a long
time in the face of opposition.
JJ, I hope that answers your question. Thanks for calling
in today. 888-564-6173 is our number. And now we'll go
(16:24):
to Brea. Here is Rita listening on FM 107.9K wave. Welcome,
Rita to Pastor's Perspective.
Hi, can you hear me OK? Loud and clear.
Oh good good thank you so much you guys are
just wonderful and I'm so grateful that um you do
your show um and I appreciate that but anyway I
(16:48):
have um a kind of a a question that it
makes me very uncomfortable asking but.
I have a dear friend whose son is 34 years old.
I've watched him grow up and he shows up at
my doorstep the other day and he's ranting and screaming
and using foul language and, and he, he seems like
(17:11):
he might be either demon oppressed or demon possessed, and
he said things to me that were very odd and
I just, I, I said, you know what, you
You belong to Christ and you, God's going to see
you through this, and I, you're going to come out
good on the other side. We're praying for you and
(17:33):
I know that you know Jesus and all the crazy
things I felt like were evil that he was saying.
And am I and and I didn't know if I
should cast out demons because he's been diagnosed as schizophrenic
and by
Polar, which I think he got into things that opened
doors to the enemy. So I didn't, I mean, and
(17:55):
then I want to help him in any way I
can that's biblically sound and right. So I'm, I'm coming
to you guys asking, I pray. I told him, you know,
you belong to Christ. You turn from sin and turn
to Him, and I don't know what else to do.
Is there anything?
All right, Dave Keene, we'll start with you.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Great. You just right out of the gate here. You know, uh, Reed,
I think you actually did very well to encourage him
to turn back to Christ. Um, if he has opened
up a spiritual door to oppression, as a follower of Jesus,
he has to be the one to close it. We,
you know, we can pray for him and, uh, seek
(18:36):
to
You know, turn to to the scriptures, but if there
isn't any desire to do that, uh, basically, I think
the challenge is gonna be to
To allow, um, kind of as Paul talked about, to
allow people who are just in bondished or sin to
be turned over to Satan, so that
(18:57):
You know, that that could get worked out. And I
honestly wonder if there's some type of dynamic where to
be praying for him, but if there's no desire for
him to want to change, uh, you're not gonna, you're
not gonna see that result that we hope for, I think. So,
I think, but what you did though is, is truly to,
(19:18):
you know, to put it back to the truth of
scripture and uh
And just to kind of talk about the, the claim
that Christ has upon him and, and the work of
that the blood of Christ has accomplished in his life.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Brian.
OK, good. I thought, you know, using next time because
I'm planning that he might show up on my door again,
and I thought, I'm just going to give him scripture.
I'm going to say, you know, submit to God, resist
the devil, and he will flee. I thought just using
scripture to talk back to him when he's talking crazy
(19:49):
and saying all the weirdo
things.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
That's, that's definitely how Christ dealt with with the devil. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah, I think too, Rita, just, um, you mentioned the
diagnosis of schizophrenia and um bipolar, and those are real,
those are real conditions, you know, that are mental disorders or,
you know, physiologically who nobody really knows what, what's going
on in the brain that causes these things, but they're
real and oftentimes, um, these, these
(20:21):
Behavioral things that you're describing are quite typical with um
schizophrenic people and or, you know, people who are um
bipolar when they go into the psychotic stage, um, you know,
they're just literally out of their minds. And, and so I,
(20:41):
I don't doubt that there is a demonic influence because
I think the devil.
He is a bully and he takes advantage of, of
any kind of weakness we have, you know, but I
would not, at least immediately say, oh, he's demon possessed.
I think that it's probably more, and the problem so often,
(21:02):
and it sounds like it's probably the problem with him.
is there are medications that can help, and they can, I,
I know several people who have a schizophrenic diagnosis or
a bipolar diagnosis, who live on medication, and for the
most part, they function pretty normally. Um, but a lot
of times what you have is a person who just,
(21:23):
they won't take the medication. They don't believe in it,
or they think, you know, something evils trying to, because
they're crazy, so they can't think, uh, rationally.
So, uh, but like Dave said, you know, you can't
go wrong, praying for him and, uh, sharing God's word
with him and, you know, the Lord can break through, so.
(21:45):
Does this help you, Rita? Well, yeah, it does, it does.
I just wanted to do everything I could possibly do
to help him. So thank you so much. God bless
you guys and thank you. Thank you. All right, Rita,
thanks for calling in today to Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is
our number. Here's a question that was sent in on Instagram.
(22:07):
Angela DM'd us, and she writes, hello, I've read that
we are to put away the lust of the flesh.
The word mentions lust and to stay away from it.
Does that mean that if you're in a marriage that
you cannot lust for or desire your spouse, is it
OK to be filled with desire for your spouse? Dave,
what do you tell Angela?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Uh, I would fully agree that God has given us, uh,
the gift of sex to, to really bond us with
our spouses, and so God created this righteous desire to
be done in the confines of a of a marriage
that's honoring to God.
And so I think we get stuck on how we
(22:49):
abuse these gifts that God has given us. And so
one of the abuses of the gift of sex is
that we lust and we desire for things that are
not meant for us, that are outside the bounds of
marriage and with people that are not our spouses. And so,
usually when when you see the word lust in scripture,
(23:09):
it's usually a desire that you're seeking to fulfill inappropriately.
It's not
The righteous desires that God has given us for our
husband or our spouse or our wife, whatever marriage um component,
it really is that desire that God has given us
is good, but when we abuse that desire, that's what
(23:29):
becomes wrong. And so, um, yeah, I mean, I, I
think my wife and I've been married for 33 years
and it's been a healthy, passionate desire I have for
her that has kept our marriage in a healthy place.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Pastor Bryant.
Yeah, I, I mean, you know, that is where those
desires are to be fulfilled. It, you know, what the
Bible is warning us against is fulfilling them in the
context that God doesn't.
Permitted in, so yeah, you, your husband, your wife, that's
(24:01):
the place. Angela, thank you for sending in your question
on Instagram and now we're gonna go to Alexander who's
listening to FM 107.9 K wave in Crest line. Welcome, Alexander.
Uh, welcome, gentlemen. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. Uh,
so my question today, um, might be a little controversial.
(24:23):
I'm not entirely sure why though, because, you know, the
offer of grace through faith in Jesus is available to everyone.
The Lord says.
Every nation, tribe, and tongue will gather around the throne
and of all things, but my question is about Israel, uh,
specifically the modern ethno state of Israel.
There seems to be so many verses that talk about
(24:46):
Israel being like the children of God are the children
of the promise, not the children of the flesh. And again,
this isn't based in any sort of like malice or
bias towards anyone. But how do we justify the end
times view that all genealogical Israel will be saved with,
(25:07):
you know, a multitude of verses kind of speaking against
that idea. OK, Brian.
Well, first of all, I, I would challenge the idea
that there's a multitude of verses that speak against it.
I don't really think that that's the case. I think
there are some interpretations of verses that, you know, kind
(25:27):
of cause people to go in that direction. But, um,
before we we get into that, um,
Funny enough, I just finished reading Deuteronomy this morning, and
I was, I was reading the, the final chapter. It was,
it was interesting as I was sitting there reading it
because I've actually been in the very place that it
was describing and I was so I was reading it
(25:49):
and I was kind of visualizing what was happening. Let
me read, let me read to you just the first
part of it. Then Moses climbed Mount Nebo from the
plains of Moab to the top of Pisa, across from Jericho.
There the Lord showed him the whole land from Gilead
to Dan, all naftily the territory of Ephraim and Manassa,
(26:10):
all the land of Judah as far as the Mediterranean Sea,
the Negev, and the whole region.
Of the valley of Jericho, the city of Palms as
far as Soar. Then the Lord said to him, This
is the land I promised on oath to Abraham, Isaac,
and Jacob. When I said I will give it to
(26:32):
your descendants.
I have let you see it with your eyes, but
you will not cross over to it. So this is
one of the many, many, many, many, many places in
Scripture where we are told that this land
was given by God to the descendants of Abraham, Isaac,
(26:54):
and Jacob.
Now, we, when you, you know, look close at things,
what you
Not everybody realizes this, but, but some do. The, the seed,
so God promises to Abraham, right? He promises that in
you and your seed all the nations of the earth
will be blessed. And so we know that's the, that's
(27:14):
the Messianic promise there.
Um, Paul in Galatians, he says something really interesting. He
says the promise was not to seeds as of many,
but to seed singular, the seed being Christ.
So,
The promise of God.
(27:35):
Is that Christ will be the one who will uh
possess all of these things and through Christ,
The other descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will, will
then possess the land, ultimately.
Now, the problem in modern Israel is that
(27:55):
Uh, the seed singular is rejected.
And so the people trying to possess the land, apart
from the Messiah, it can't happen, it will never happen. Um,
but there is a time coming when, uh, the people
will receive the Messiah, and through the reception of the Messiah,
(28:18):
they will then inherit the promises. And if you take
and look carefully at Romans 11,
It it's crystal clear in Romans 11. Well, maybe it's
not crystal clear because it seems like it is, but,
you know, obviously some people see it differently, but when
you look at Romans 11, uh, Paul talks about three
(28:41):
groups of people.
He talks about himself, who is a descendant, uh, he,
he is a Jew who is part of a remnant.
He talks about the church, and then he talks about Israel.
A people who are presently.
Um,
(29:03):
Enemies for the gospel's sake, but beloved for the sake
of the fathers. So here's here's a group of people
that are outside of what God is doing right now,
but will be grafted back in in the future.
So we'll come back after the break and Dave can
follow up with that. And also, Dave's colleague, Carmen Is
(29:27):
was here on Monday's program, and she gave a great
answer to a similar question that we had. So check
that out in the Pastor's perspective archives on Facebook, YouTube,
Spotify and Apple Podcasts. It is break time now. We
will be back in a few minutes to answer.
Or more of the questions you have about the Bible,
the Christian faith, just about anything that's on your mind,
888-564-6173 is our number. We've got Brian Broderson here to
(29:52):
answer your questions and Dave Keen from Viola University, 888-564-6173.
(30:18):
We're back on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is the number to call,
and we're gonna be here for another 25 minutes or so.
So grab an open line, 888-564-6173. Answering your questions today,
Brian Broderson, one of the pastors at Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa,
also Dave Keene, the teaching pastor.
(30:40):
At No, hold on. Cornerstone Community Church in St. Clemente.
You can find out more about them if you're looking
for a church in the St. Clemente area. Where's your
church's website? I just had it up here, cornerstoneonline.org. Check
that out. But we were just talking to Alexander from Crestline,
called in with a question about Israel. We heard what
Pastor Bryan said. Now let's hear from Pastor Dave.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
You know, one of the things when I think about
Israel as God's chosen people, they've been God's chosen people
from the beginning.
And Romans 9 makes it very clear that that was
God's choice, you know, they didn't deserve it any more
than anybody else. They didn't do anything cause God chose
Jacob in the womb, and
(31:23):
So you see the story of God's people being chosen,
but not all of these people became regenerate.
And believing in God, right? That you see God's punishment
of the people of Israel that he chose that he
delivered out of Egypt, that they would sin. And so
even though they were God's chosen people, it didn't mean
(31:44):
automatic salvation. And I think when you think about Israel
in the future, this is still God's people. You know,
Romans 11, it is very clear that God's call are irrevocable.
It's not like, well, that was for a time and
So there is something special about Israel throughout history, but
it doesn't mean that all people who claim to be
(32:07):
of Israel are going to be saved. It really, I think,
is a different type of election. These are guys's people
that he has favored, that he has graced, but some
of them are still rebelling against God and and choosing
to go a different way. And so I think we
have to take that kind, you know, that complete picture
of election of what does it mean to have Israel
being uh
(32:28):
An elected nation in the future.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Yeah, and, and 9, 10 and 11 of Romans are
really such a key in understanding all of this because
Paul specifically, you know, Romans 1 through 8, Paul is
addressing primarily he's addressing the, the issue of, um, salvation
for all people, and he's giving us understanding and detail and,
(32:53):
you know, about sin and why we needed a savior
and what Jesus did and so forth.
And then when he comes to chapter 9, he turns
to the subject that people were asking questions about then,
just like they're asking now. Well what about Israel? And so, 9,
10 and 11, he explains that.
Alexander, what do you think?
(33:14):
Oh, thank you, gentlemen, both for your answer. It's definitely,
it's such an interesting topic because
There's verses that come to mind like not all who
are born of Israel are Israel. All the promises of
God in Christ are yes and amen in Christ, right?
There's a passage in Joshua that talks about all the
promises of God to Israel were fulfilled, and I think
(33:36):
these are the land promises. There's obviously eternal promises that
are fulfilled in Christ.
But it's just, uh, yeah, honestly, I could, I could
talk for hours on this one, but I thank you
guys so much for your time and, uh, I, I'll
call back again. How about you guys. Thanks, Alexander.
Thank you for calling in today at 888-564-6173.
Here's a question that was sent in online, and, uh,
(33:59):
this is from Rosalina in Murrieta, who went to Kwave.com
and filled out the uh form there. I recently heard
a message from CS Lewis in which he stated that
we are not to wear any clothing that has any
evil or wicked symbols on it.
I agree. My question, however, is that he also mentioned
that there are symbols or designs that signify something in
(34:20):
a culture that we may not be aware of, and
by wearing these articles of clothing, we are promoting those beliefs.
After watching this, I went through my closet, and I
happened to have quite a few dresses that had these
symbols and designs.
I'd like some clarification as to whether I should no
longer wear them. Mister Lewis also said to destroy them
(34:41):
and throw them away. No problem, but I'd like to
know your perspective on this, Brian. OK, well, first of all, um,
I don't think she was listening to CS Lewis because
CS Lewis died.
In 1963, uh, there were very few recordings of CS Lewis,
and none of them would have ever dealt with anything
(35:01):
like this, nor would CS Lewis, uh, I, I can't
imagine CS Lewis saying anything that even would come close
to what she thinks he said. CS Lewis wrote.
Um, the Chronicles of Narnia, um, you know, many Christians
are offended by CS Lewis because he would use, um,
(35:24):
you know, imagery from, uh, you know, the world of
magic and things like that. So, so wherever she got
this teaching, uh, let me just say it wasn't from
CS Lewis.
And um.
That, that all of that kind of stuff that you
(35:46):
just communicated there, um, who, regardless of who said it, it,
it smacks of superstition. And I think, uh, you know,
I mean, obviously, you know, you don't wanna put a
pentagram around your neck and walk around and go, man,
this is such a cool symbol. I love this.
Um, because it's directly connected to the occult, but somebody
(36:07):
might do it in ignorance, and, you know, not know
any better, and nothing's gonna happen to him for it. So, so,
but these kinds of things like, oh, your clothes, and
there's gonna be a curse on this, and well, you
gotta get rid of that and burn this, and that's
more superstition than Christianity.
What do you think, Dave, Dave?
Speaker 2 (36:24):
You know, scripture, when it does talk about our clothing, it, it,
it always talks about like, you know, we wear what
we wear, not to draw attention to ourselves. That's why,
you know, women wear dress in modesty. But I think
the overall principle here, you know, looking at perhaps, you know,
Colossians 3:17 when it says, and whatever you do, whether
(36:45):
in word or deed, do it all in the name
of Lord Jesus Christ giving thanks to the God and
the Father through him. So the idea is
If I wear this, am I glorifying God? I think
that's the key question is that, am I, if you
know something is not glorifying God now, well then perhaps
you just need to stop wearing it for yourself, not
because of the, the message, but you're just feeling like
(37:08):
this is putting out a uh a symbol that that
you can't agree with. Well then maybe, maybe for yourself,
go ahead, but
Um, once again, I don't, I think the idea is
like we don't be intentionally, you know, leading people astray, but, um,
I think it really comes back to what's the heart
position for whatever we wear, whatever clothing we choose should
always come back to like, God, thank you for how
(37:30):
you make me look, and I want to honor you
and in my dress and my appearance. And I think
if you have that type of mentality, you're going to
make wise choices regarding your clothing, regardless of what symbols
are on it.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
So I just did a quick search online. The only
thing I could find is a YouTube channel that has
CS Lewis's name in it. CS Lewis Legends. Yes, yeah, well, these,
these are the things people made up about right, and,
and the, uh, description.
Says CS Lewis inspired. So this person who's got 297,000 subscribers,
(38:06):
oh my goodness, is, is, I guess going around saying, well,
you know, CS Lewis may not have talked about what
types of clothes you should wear, but if he did,
this is what he was.
This CS Lewis sermon, you know, CS Lewis was not
a pastor. He wasn't even really a preacher. He was
a professor, a university professor and an author. And of course,
(38:26):
he did speak on occasions. He was a lecturer, but
you know, I, yeah, this is.
I mean, I, I'm a big, big CS Lewis fan
and this is kind of offends me a little bit
this website. I'm gonna.
Tell people, don't go. Do not be part of the.
300,000 people that are following, get off their ASAP. Yes, please. And, uh, Rosalina,
(38:51):
thank you for letting us know about this page and
also for sending in your question through the uh Kwave.com
pastor's perspective page. 888-564-6173 is the number to call.
Tell us today. Here's another question that was sent in online.
This one through Facebook. It is from Christy in Somerville,
South Carolina. And she writes, we have a talented young
(39:13):
musician who often live streams using their phone during Sunday worship.
Over the past year, this person has made a career
shift and is working to make their living from the
proceeds of TikTok and social media.
Sometimes doing battles with other social media teams and competing
for the most money sent to their channel. Anyway, this
person has also posted videos of themselves on vacation celebrating
(39:38):
their new lifestyle as a result of earnings from this
career change. I've learned that this person is collecting funds
while live streaming church worship as people's donations or tips
to the channel are visible during the live stream.
I assume this person tithes, but there are no indications
that the funds from church worship will go toward the
church or a particular ministry or missions, etc. This person
(40:01):
is also a close relative of the head pastor, and
the family is very supportive of their musical endeavors. I
originally assumed this person was streaming as a way to.
Outreach and they sometimes refer to their channel as though
it were an outreach. However, the emphasis on money in
their livestream events suggests that money is more of the objective.
(40:23):
Is it appropriate for someone to live stream church worship
if it is for their own personal financial gain?
So again, not knowing, I mean, there's a lot in there,
but we don't know if Christie's saying that this person
is sitting at the keyboards on a Sunday morning and
they've got their phone propped up and they're live streaming
as they lead worship, and then people are tipping online.
(40:46):
Maybe that's what's going on here or maybe the person
is live streaming from the beach. The worship services, I
don't know, but, uh, based on what we have here,
what would you guys say, Brian?
Well, I think the fact that.
That she's troubled by that is understandable. I, I think
it is a bit troubling.
(41:09):
Um, and if.
It's been brought to the attention of the church leadership,
and they are cool with it. I think that's probably
a little troubling too, so.
I don't know. I, I mean, you know, is, is
this her church? Does she go to this church? Uh,
we have a talented young musician who often live streams,
(41:31):
so yes, must be. I mean, you know, I, who knows?
I mean, maybe you need to push a little further
into asking, you know, what's going on with this, and
if you don't get a an answer that you feel
like is is the right one, then maybe you reconsider
where you're at.
And Christie did say that this is the a close
(41:52):
relative of the head pastor, so maybe she's afraid that
they're not gonna give me a good answer. They're just
going to defend their that that that could be the case, yeah,
so what do you think Dave?
Speaker 2 (42:03):
I think, uh, too often, um,
Pastors feel like.
Uh
There's uh opportunities to allow others to, you know, use their,
their abilities for themselves and and this this one doesn't
feel good. This feels like there's a conflict of interest
(42:26):
at the very least. And what's even worse, it feels
kind of slimy, like you're, you're taking what should be
worshipful and truly connecting people to God and making it
about yourself at the very least.
You know, it should be streamed on the church's website,
not his personal website. You know, you, you're not really
(42:46):
meant to promote yourself in worship. So, and
Speaker 1 (42:50):
maybe they're doing both,
but, well, I
Speaker 2 (42:52):
assume they're doing both, but the fact that one is
being tolerated, you know, uh, the, the personal promotion is
being tolerated, that, that doesn't seem on the up and up.
There seems to be something unfortunate there and that's
Too often I think pastors, um, turn their blind eye
when they, if it's someone especially that they're related to
(43:14):
that may be taking something in in an abusive way,
where there's an abuse of opportunity and abuse of power,
and I think that's that's a warning sign for a
church that may not have its focus where it really
should be.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Would this be the equivalent of busking on a street corner, and,
you know, playing worship music, hoping that people will stop
by and throw a few dollars in your guitar case? Uh, I,
I don't think so, but if you, because the church
is the platform that's where, you know, um.
People are being drawn to that, so no, I think,
you know, you can go out and busk and you're
(43:51):
you're doing the work out there. And if you're doing
worship songs busking, you're kind of, you know, sharing the gospel,
so true. Or is this an example of just the
way we're taking worship services nowadays, where the worship is
more about the, you know, the performance and the
You know, it's not just like, like you were saying
(44:11):
where the the purpose of worship on a Sunday morning
is to be worshiping, but you're doing this, and again,
maybe he's live streaming to people who can't be there,
we don't know, but.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Yeah, the worship service has definitely been impacted by technology. Um,
I have a conversation with my students in one of
my classes at at Baola about when you're worshiping, but
it's a professional band or the music's just a little
too loud, you know, what is that communicating to the
person in there that I'm here for a show, I'm
(44:43):
here to watch because it's so loud. I'm not.
I can't hear myself sing or the person next to
me saying it's not a communal experience anymore. It's more
of a an emotional experience now. And so I think
we have allowed things to replace an intimacy that used
to be there with uh with God.
(45:03):
Um, because we're, we're leaning on technology, um, and so
I think, you know, it's one thing to stream a
worship service, it's another thing to seek private profit off
of a worship.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
Do you think we should be writing worship services using,
or worship songs using AI or any Christian songs using AI?
Well, if we're not really creative, then I guess we
probably need to use AI to help us.
Yeah
I don't think so. I, I mean, you know, worship
is the, the essence of worship is, is the heart.
(45:42):
It's, it's not even, you know, it's not even the,
the skill. I mean, skill is good, but the essence
of it is the heart. So if you're
You know, you're just popping a couple of of words
into AI and saying, hey, come up with a worship
song for me here. I don't know, yeah, cause AI
doesn't have a heart, so there's no heart behind it. Right,
(46:03):
now someone would say, OK, I have good intentions, I'm
Programming these words, I don't know what the terminology is
for AI, but I'm, I'm, I'm feeding it. These are
the words, these are the themes that I want the
song to talk about. Yeah.
So that's a person, so even though AI doesn't have
a heart, the person programming it.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
I think the concern would be the theology that the
song would then be built upon because there's, you'd have
to give the prompt, you have to give so many
prompts to the AI machine to really have a good
theological perspective of that. I think you defeat the purpose
of songwriting, you know, because what are we trying to
do in this moment?
(46:46):
is not simply create an atmosphere, we're not simply trying
to create a mood. We really are seeking to connect
people to the heart of God using the truth of God. And,
and that's the, that's what worship is about. It's, it's
this beautiful
Tool that, you know, singing engages more of your brain
than any other activity. And, and so what we're meant
(47:08):
to do is, can we connect our brains and emotions
to God and song in a way that honors him
and I think that's a very intentional act that we
don't want to give up to, to,
Speaker 1 (47:21):
yeah, and I, and I think in the writing side
of it, you're looking, you're looking to inspiration.
Even as you're, you know, you're, you're developing a song,
not inspiration like the equivalent of
The inspiration of scripture, but, you know, that you sense
God is giving you, like when you're preaching, you know, we,
(47:42):
we sense an uh an empowerment through uh preaching at times,
and you, you know the Lord is helping you, you
know the Lord's giving you recall, you know, he's bringing
stuff to you and writing a song, you, you want
those components there as well, which obviously you're not gonna
get with a machine.
Very true, very true. All right, to the phones, back, uh,
(48:03):
back to the phones. Alex in Midway City, I'm assuming.
Welcome to Pastor's Perspective.
Uh thank you. Yeah, what's your question for us today?
OK, my question was,
Does the pastor have?
The right to
I went out of church.
(48:25):
Does the pastor have the right to throw anyone out
of church? Did this happen to you, Alex?
No, no, me, but my church is staying kind of
small because, uh,
I see this happening continuously. OK, do you know why
people are being thrown out of your church?
(48:45):
Uh, for personal issues, I believe, because
He's not giving us a, a full rundown on, on
why I thought it was.
You should bring that to.
Somebody
You know, at least 3 people for, you can have
so many have objective ideas, you know, and just
(49:08):
It's literally the that our church is mostly his family.
But do you think these people are being thrown out
for the lifestyle they're living or their views? What is
it that you think? Do you have any idea?
For, for their views. And what kind of views?
(49:29):
Just they're not agreeable with him. And they, they, they
questioned him in an open forum. Right. Which maybe that's
wrong for doing that. I don't see any disrespectful. Yeah,
you know, the, um, Alex, the, the Bible does give
place for what what we call church discipline at times
(49:51):
and under certain circumstances that are, you know, severe.
Um, there is a time and a place for people
to be set outside the fellowship, and, you know, to
give them a chance to really reconsider and to get
their hearts right with the Lord, and then hopefully they
can be welcomed back in. But
(50:14):
If this is something that is just kind of and
and I would say that would be rare. So if
this is like a common occurrence in your church, I
would say that that's a problem.
Speaker 2 (50:27):
Yeah, it sounds similar to the previous question about the
role of the pastor and maybe abusing power. If if
a pastor is simply excluding people who do not agree
with him, then that's really not um a biblical form
of leadership, because a biblical form of leadership is servanthood
and trying to include others in the process of of
(50:49):
leading a church. And so if
If the exclusion and, you know, the removing people from
your church is simply because they're not going to go
along with your vision, there's there's deeper concern there and
perhaps some some unhealthiness that can be addressed by, you know,
a plurality of, of elders, you know, whenever there's just
(51:12):
one pastor over a church it's too easy to abuse power.
So that's where if you have a a plurality of
elders coming together and
And deciding things together, you really have some checks and
balances that it's not just one person's church or one
person's perspective that that dominates and you could really hopefully
(51:33):
find ways to engage people.
Speaker 1 (51:37):
Cultish, do you think? Yeah, it, yeah, you know, there's different,
a lot of times when we think of a cult,
we think automatically of doctrinal uh error, which is certainly there,
but there's also sociological elements to a cult and control
is one of them. So this sounds a bit cultish, yeah.
(51:59):
And, you know, I would just say to Alex, there's
there's lots of great churches where that kind of stuff
is not happening and you want to be in a
place where you can really grow and you can be
maturing and serving and, you know, sounds like you're you're
there in a situation where a person has kind of
their own, you know, their own agenda and you either
(52:23):
get on board or you move on. So, probably not
the healthiest.
Doesn't sound like it. Nope. Alex, thank you for calling
in today on Pastor's Perspective. Let's do at least one more,
maybe two. Haley wrote in online through Facebook. What foods
were consistent in the Passover and what did they represent?
Other question Was Jesus aware when he was younger or
(52:43):
a teen that he would be sacrificed? And how do
you think he handled it as a youngster?
Any thoughts on that, Dave?
Either one or both.
Speaker 2 (52:53):
Well, he always was God. Jesus did not give up
his deity, even when he took on 100% humanity. He
was developing in characteristics, um, so there are aspects of
his cognitive development and his physical development that are that
are growing, but I don't think he never ceased being
God and therefore, in his foreknowledge, he knew he had
(53:14):
a mission.
Um, I think even back in John 3 when he
was talking to Nicodemus, he, he knew that he had
come for a specific purpose and not just, um, was random.
So there probably was some real perspective that Jesus had
about his, um, eternal mission that would eventually lead to
the cross. I don't think he confronted that regularly until
(53:35):
probably his ministry time when he foretold his disciples.
I am gonna go to the cross to be crucified,
but I think because he was God, he was all knowing,
and and that was gonna be part of his, his thinking,
even though he had humanity that he was growing it
as well.
Speaker 1 (53:54):
Right. Yeah, and the and the Passover, you can read
in um Exodus chapter 12, you can read right there,
it just tells you every, you know, the, the bitter
herbs and the unleavened bread and of course there was
the lamb.
Uh, which, uh, uh, in modern Judaism, they don't necessarily,
you know, do the lamb. But anyway, you can, you
(54:16):
can read about it right there. Brian, I have a
question for you as we finish, I think I saw
on um Instagram, you're gonna be, where are you gonna
be on Saturday night?
Oh, that, yes, yes, the SoCal harvest Crusade is coming
to Angel Stadium in Anaheim. So yes, I'm, you know,
Greg Laurie's giving the message. I'm not giving the message,
but I'm gonna be, you know, I saw this Instagram.
(54:37):
I thought, well, they've got Brian speaking this year. No, no, no,
they don't want to do that. But yeah, Kwave is
gonna be there and, uh, stop by Wavehi will be at.
The Kwave booth outside the stadium. Plus we'll also be
live streaming the Harvest Crusade on the Kwave Facebook page,
and we're gonna be doing like a little pre-party ahead
of time. So join us at 6 o'clock or so.
You can register and get all the details on the
(55:00):
Kwave Facebook page. So yes, that's what I'm gonna be
doing on that, right? Fun.
Dave Keene, thanks for joining us again today, man.
Speaker 2 (55:07):
My pleasure. Always good to be here.
Speaker 1 (55:08):
Dave's
the teaching pastor at Cornerstone Community Church in Saint Clemente.
You can find out more about them at cornerstoneOnline.org and
find out more about the Adam Keane Foundation that we
talked about at the beginning of the program. Adam KeaneFoundation.com
is that website, and it'll be updated soon with the
information about the, uh, the event, the fundraiser that's number
Speaker 2 (55:30):
6 down in Sany. If you play an instrument.
Let me know. Love to have you come join our team.
Speaker 1 (55:35):
Very good. All right, Adam Keane Foundation.com. Keen spelled K
E E H N, Adam Keanfoundation.com. All right. God bless
you guys. Today's program will be archived on Facebook, YouTube,
Apple Podcasts, and Spotify a little bit later, and then
join us again tomorrow. Call in with your questions here
on Pastor's Perspective. Phone lines open about 7 minutes before
(55:57):
3 o'clock. Thanks for listening and watching.
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