July 21, 2025 • 56 mins
Pastors' Perspective is a one-hour call-in program where listeners can call in and get answers to questions about the Bible, Christianity, family, and life. The program is live Monday through Friday from 3:00 PM - 4:00 PM Pacific. You can call 888-564-6173 to ask your questions.
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Speaker 1 (00:14):
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez.
So great to have you with us today. We're gonna
answer your questions about the Bible, the Christian faith, just
about anything you want to talk about today. 888-564-6173 is
the number to call. You can also watch us live
stream on Facebook, YouTube, and
(00:34):
Instagram, you can scan the QR code on Facebook, YouTube
and Instagram, and that'll take you to the page where
you can submit your question to us. You can also
submit your question on the pastor's perspective Facebook Messenger, or on, um,
what's the other one? Um, um, those, oh, the direct
message DM on the pastor's perspective Instagram.
(00:55):
And I'm a little rusty after taking a day off,
but that was 2 days ago, so I don't know
what my problem is. Help me, Pastor Brian Broderson. You're
my only hope. Pastor Brian Yoderson, as we, uh, found
last week. Do you still have that photo, Phil? I'm
sure you do somewhere. Absolutely. It's whenever he calls me,
that's the picture that I get to see now.
Oh, I don't know about that. Brian and Phil are
(01:19):
here today. Yes, Brian Broderson, Phil Metzger, Brian from Calvary Chapel,
Costa Mesa. Phil from Calvary San Diego, how are you
guys doing?
Well, how are we doing? Um, I'm doing OK. I've had, uh,
just spent some time with a, a good friend today
who's down from Washington state and then looking at um
(01:44):
a bunch of furniture that I get to move tomorrow,
which I'm super excited about. I try to pick up
a couch that weighed like 500 pounds, so trying to
figure out how I'm gonna get that up my up
my stairs, but
You know, we will cross that threshold when we get there.
In more ways than one. So that so that's that's been.
(02:07):
That's been my day for the most part.
Lots of heavy lifting and things like that. He lifting.
That's kind of normal for you, yeah, yeah, that's me.
Phil, what's new with you?
Not much guys, you know, we're we're getting gearing up
for school. Um, our K through 8 school starts on Monday. Wow,
I know you're around school, baby. That is early.
(02:30):
Why so early?
Year-round school, that is so wrong. That's just my goodness.
Is it year round? Is that, is that your deal? Yeah,
but here's the thing.
As soon as September comes, we get a two week break.
And then at Christmas time we get a 3 week break,
and then the spring we get a 2 week break.
So it, it, once listen, July is terrible, but then
(02:52):
September comes and you're like, all right, this isn't so bad.
Or is that San Diego thing? I, I mean, I,
you know, things have changed so much over the years.
I don't know. I, I think we have a proper
kind of a summer break at our school.
Um, yeah, we, um, every, there's a freeway down here
called the 54, it's kind of a south north south freeway.
(03:14):
Every school south of the 54 freeway down here is
a year-round school, no kidding. Yeah. So what's the, what's
the relationship with the 54? Anything other than it just
coincidentally happens to be that. I think it's the like
the um boundary of a school district is my guess. OK,
but I'll tell you what, and um.
(03:36):
What's his name, um, that wrote, um, The Outliers, what's, uh,
Malcolm Gladwell. He writes about and, and I, I really
see it now that that students should only have a
six week break. After that, they start to lose what
they learned the year before. So.
Um, so the year round school model uses the, it
(03:56):
wasn't what it was intended for, but it actually is
really useful for like the kids are off for 6
weeks and they come back. We don't spend tons of
weeks of like rebuilding what they learned because they're ready
to go still. And um, so it has kind of
educational value and honestly you kind of get used to it,
but it's July is rough. I'll be honest, July is
rough guys.
(04:17):
So were you off for the month of July?
No, we're off the, um, we, we get out in
the middle of May and we come back July, so
we're on oh you're on, OK, yeah, yeah, we're, we've
been doing um teacher training and all that fun stuff.
So I spent 2.5 hours in CPR, guys, and first aid.
That was wow, man.
Exciting. I didn't get to lift a couch. I wanted
(04:39):
to after you sit for long enough, you're like, I'll
lift the couch with Brian. Yeah, let's go. I might,
I might need CPR after tomorrow when I, oh yeah,
try to better make your way up here just in case.
All right, 888-564-6173, call us up with your questions, but, uh,
we're gonna begin with one that was sent in online.
(05:02):
Molly listens in, I'm sorry, Mellie listens in Anaheim.
And says, my 18 year old daughter has a personal
relationship with God. She's humble, so kind. She reads the
word daily, she shares the word when she gets the opportunity.
I know God has a calling for her. She serves
in children's ministry at church, and she's having dreams that
seem so real, biblically related, but lately, she has said
(05:26):
that she feels the presence.
of God only in a Catholic church. She's a Christian.
She goes to a Christian church, sometimes a Catholic church.
She doesn't believe in idols or Catholic doctrines and rules,
but she says God's presence has felt more there lately.
And also, she knows God wants her to help the
older generation from the Catholic Church because a lot of
(05:47):
them are so lonely. I guess it's good, but my
worry is thinking if she is doing wrong by going
to a Catholic church. Is this a sin?
I mean, they do read the same gospels, but sometimes
they are interpreted differently. I don't want to tell her
not to go because I don't want to discourage her
from discipling. I know she definitely is called by God,
(06:08):
the way she speaks about him and his word grabs
anyone's attention, even non-believers. Would you please tell me your
perspective on this, Brian, what would you say to Mellie
and her 18 year old daughter?
Wow, um, well, I think we need to
We, we need to recognize that God is at work
(06:28):
in the Catholic Church and um
Uh, you know, I, I have heard some stories recently
from very reliable sources about some really beautiful things that,
that is, uh, that are that are happening in, in
the context of of the Catholic Church. You know, the
Catholic Church today is not the Catholic Church of my generation,
(06:52):
where uh there was not a real focus on Bible
study and things like that. There's a, there's a lot
that's changed in the Catholic Church these days.
And um Bishop Robert Barron is a great example of
a Catholic leader who is a solidly evangelical guy and,
you know, believes in the authority of scripture and teaches
(07:15):
the Bible like a, you know, like an evangelical pastor
would teach the Bible. So, so I think we need
to
Be careful that we're not, you know, painting the, the
Catholic Church as this, oh my gosh, if you go
in there, you're gonna lose your salvation or something like that.
I think that that's something that we need to to
pull back from. Uh, now, each church is uh has
(07:38):
its individual emphasis and characteristics and things, so
Um, there are churches where the leaders are more biblically oriented,
and I think that's, that's excellent because, you know, you
can't really grow in your faith apart from the influence
of scripture on your life, the study of scripture, and
so forth. So, a church that emphasizes the Bible.
(08:02):
Great, good things are gonna happen there. Uh, a church
that neglects the Bible and just sticks to just a
basic homily because, you know, the homily, you have to
do it because that's what you do on Sunday, uh,
that's not gonna be that helpful. So, um, but as
far as it's sensing the presence of God, that's interesting.
I, I do think that, you know, we, there's, there's
(08:26):
what you call high church and there's low church and
high church is a way to refer to like a
church that has a uh an or an elaborate liturgy
and you know, all of the um the things that
would the the incense and the bells and the imagery
(08:49):
and all of the things that would um
You know, touch the senses and a low church is
kind of just the other end of the spectrum of that,
you know, basically you're in a warehouse that was turned
into a church and you've got shag carpet and you've
got your chairs and you know, you don't have any
(09:10):
art or anything on the wall cause you don't wanna
become idolatrous. So it's just like the stripped down barest
thing you can.
Now, a lot of times evangelical churches are, are really
low church like that. So there's no, there's no opportunity
for uh in a sense, sort of a an emotional
(09:31):
slash spiritual connection with the with the atmosphere. And I
think what happens is I think some people who grow
up in low church kind of places, they go into
a high church situation.
And they feel something there because wow, this is different.
And and I think, I think they can mistake that
(09:53):
feeling for the presence of God, because they're in awe
of the, the ritual and they're in awe of all
of the, you know, different components that go into the service, and,
and that can touch them, but I'm, I'm afraid that
it
It's more of an emotional touch that's been mistaken for
(10:13):
a spiritual touch, so.
Yeah, I was kind of just rereading the question too
and thinking about that and um it sounds like this,
this young gal like it's like a missional kind of
a heart, right to be there for some of the
older folks and support them.
(10:34):
Which is, um, you know, really sweet, and, uh, you know,
I guess, I guess I would totally just agree with
everything Brian just shared. There is a
There's something about for a lot of people who grew
up in the, like you said, low church, the non-denominational movement,
we just, there is this like craving for like things
(10:55):
that we would maybe some of us would go, I
thought we came out of that, but then you realize, no,
that's not what we came out. We didn't come out
of high church. We came out of like anything that
is dead. We came out of dead church and not
all high church is dead church. It's just that's just
an unfair thing.
Not all, not because that would equate that all low
(11:16):
church is real and that's not true either. You it
could be dead, whether it's like, you know, jeans and
t-shirt or you're wearing a robe and a collar and
the whole thing. So the fact that there's like this
interest and resurgence doesn't surprise me like you said.
Um, if you're there, you know, if she's there as
a like a real missional approach to life, like, gosh,
I just wanna support these people that are in this situation. I, I,
(11:40):
I think that would be one thing.
On the other hand, I would, you know, and again,
as Brian said, every church is very unique and, uh,
but is there like, you know, are we gonna grow
in the word? Are we gonna get to grow in
our Christian faith in that context? those would be the
questions I'd be more concerned with. And I would obviously
be concerned with like, if you're hearing something that isn't,
(12:01):
you know, there's there's some amazing, uh, like Brian pointed out,
some amazing people in the Catholic movement who are like
preaching in the same way we would.
Uh, but then I would kind of question like, is
that what you're getting? Or are you having to decipher
between they're talking about this or that, and I don't
believe this, and I don't believe that. But I like this,
and I do think there's a point where that, that,
(12:22):
that can become pretty, pretty distracting to your own Christian faith,
where you're spending more time trying to weed out, like,
is this biblical or not? And that's, that is, you know,
there's something to be said about being a
Uh, a Berean Acts 17, you know, you're gonna search
the scriptures, but some things have already been established, you know,
the idolatry or the prayer to saints and so on.
(12:43):
We wanna, like, maybe, you know, to be in a
situation where you're always in that, that could be a
lot every Sunday. If it's a missional hard to reach people,
I get that, but maybe as it being your, your,
your whole context for Christian growth, I might challenge if
that's going to be the case in every single, uh,
Catholic Church.
Mellie, thank you for sending in your question through the
(13:06):
Kwave.com Pastor's perspective page. We might get to some more
of those submitted questions a little bit later, but right
now we're gonna go to the phones at 888-564-6173, starting
with John in Riverside, who's watching us on YouTube. Hi there, John.
We'll wave to John since he's watching us online. How
can we help you today, John?
(13:28):
I think, I think it's me. Oh, Joe, I'm sorry, man. I,
I totally messed up today. You are slipping. I need
another day off. What's going on? You need a cup
of coffee? Yes, it's been a few hours. Go ahead, John.
I'm sorry.
Yeah, I mean, but his question is about John. That's
(13:49):
what I was thinking. That's what I was thinking. His
question is about John, because there is no book of
Joe in the Bible. There's a book of John in
the Bible, and Joe has a question about John. Let's
hear it, Joe.
Yeah, Jesus says,
Speaker 2 (14:01):
I assure you that the time is coming indeed
is here now and
the dead will hear my voice, the voice of God,
and those.
Uh, basically they have eternal life.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
So is he talking about the people that died before
he came.
Yeah, I think so.
Oh, OK, so, so basically.
The people who died before him, he didn't know.
Jesus, the savior.
He he's gonna basically, they're, they're gonna have a chance
to have eternal life, right?
(14:34):
Well, we
We don't know um exactly what what the case is.
It does seem like, you know, everybody who died before
Jesus came died.
Um, let's just take it outside of Israel. So you
have Israel, they're the chosen people, they're God's covenant people,
(14:55):
and they have the Messianic promise and all of that.
So you have the Jews, and, and they die, but
they die with faith in the promise. The Gentiles are
outside of all of that, so they're strangers of the covenant,
they're not members of the household of God.
Um, they're Paul says they're without hope and they're without
God in the world. Uh, that's, that's the state of
(15:18):
the Gentile world. Now, people died, of course, in that condition,
but it doesn't necessarily mean that they died and perished
and went to hell, um, because they didn't have the
knowledge of salvation to be able to embrace the savior. So,
(15:39):
Um, when Jesus, you know, there's passages that talk about
Jesus descending into the lower parts of the earth, and
he proclaims, um, liberty to the captives and things like that. So,
So even though there's nothing that's like crystal clear that says, oh,
the people that died before they, this, this is what
(16:00):
happens now. Jesus goes and, you know, they have another chance.
Uh there are things that seem to
Indicate that that probably something like that happened, at least
to me. Metzger. And I'm, I'm curious, Brian, what you
would think to this. Like, do you think it could
also have the meaning of like, the dead will hear
the voice of the Son of God and that all
(16:22):
are dead in trespasses and sins could be, and that,
you know, he's kind of being very literal there they're like, hey,
we're all dead in our sins and then we will
hear and be able to come to life. Exactly, yeah,
for people that are
They look like they're living, but they're actually dead. And
now the time is coming, they're gonna hear the voice
of the Son of God. Yeah. What do you think, Joe?
Speaker 2 (16:43):
So basically,
it might be me um just a metaphor.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Um, well, not a metaphor, but it could be, it
could like Phil's saying, it could be speaking about, um,
people who are spiritually dead, and that's the condition, you know,
we're dead in our trespasses and sins, that's what we're told.
So Jesus is now speaking about the fact that that
people are going, that people who are dead in their
trespasses and sins are going to hear his voice, and
(17:12):
they're going to um
You know, be made alive.
All right, Joe, thanks for your phone call today here
on Pastor's Perspective at 888-564-6173. Now we'll go up to Richmond, Washington,
where Paul is also watching us on YouTube. Thanks you
guys for watching us on YouTube. Make sure to share
the video with your friends so that they can, uh,
(17:35):
have their questions answered too by calling 888-564-6173. Paul, what
did you want to ask Brian and Phil?
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Um, yeah, um, I was in a, a conversation with
the
Uh, sort of a co-worker, we both work in the
same building.
Um, but the company is kind of split, but they're
kind of still together. It's like we're, we're under their company,
I think.
But um, so it's like we're co-workers, but I, I,
(18:05):
I was talking to him and, and, uh.
I had the feeling he was, I, uh, somehow I, I, I, I,
I thought he was a Christian. I can't remember if
I asked him or not one day. And then so
I thought he was a Christian, and then, you know,
I would just, just say hi and by when I
walked by his work area and then um.
We uh
(18:28):
Today we were um talking a little bit and um
I can't remember when it was, but um not too
long ago I found out he's a Mormon. I was like, oh,
he he's a Mormon and then so I had to
come so close to becoming a Mormon. I took all
this teaching.
And then right before I had, um, all I could
do is fill out this paperwork and I could become
a Mormon and I couldn't do it.
(18:50):
It's like I couldn't fill out the paper, I couldn't
sign it, and it's like I didn't trust them somehow
or some reason.
And then when I, when I backed up from signing that,
I ended up hearing um
Like Chuck Smith on the radio.
Here in Richmond, Washington, and then I walked into a
church where I didn't know it was the guy that
(19:14):
was on this radio station right after Chuck Smith became
my pastor.
And so after turning away to the Mormons, I ended
up walking to a Calvary Chapel Church in Richmond City, Washington,
and I thought it was so cool how God moves.
Um, to leading me to the right place.
And uh my wife, I, I came close to becoming
(19:35):
a Mormon because my wife had become a Mormon, and
then after I said, you know what, let me, you,
you should come check out this church, and she's thought
in her mind, she said, OK, well, you came to
my church and so I'll go to your church. And
then right the first day we went there, she goes,
this is where we belong.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
That's so cool. So what's your main question for us today?
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yeah, I'm sorry. I, I, I, I, I feel kind
of guilty. Um, a lot of times I feel so, um,
like a Pharisey and, and it's like I try too hard,
and I know it's not about the laws, and I
feel so, so condemning sometimes like when, when people call on,
on your station and they, and they say that they
have these problems and I think my heart, I think, man,
(20:16):
why are you doing that?
And then, but when you guys speak there's so much
grace and love, and I was like, wow, I want
to be like those guys, you know, and, um, but
so when, when I was talking with this guy we
and and then we're talking, um, I, I can't remember
what we're talking about. I, I, I had to go
back because I forgot my bible there for the weekend.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Well, what it says on the screen here is that
you want to know if it's OK to say God
bless you to a Mormon. So I guess yeah, as
you guys were having your conversation and
Yeah. Is it OK to say God bless you to
a Mormon? What do you think, Brian?
Well, I, I don't think that um
(20:59):
Uh, you know, just, just listening to what Paul is
saying and kind of imagining that context, and he didn't
actually get there, but it, like you said, the question
says that. So, you know, maybe at some point he
just says, you know, God bless you as he's leaving
or whatever, um, and now he's feeling guilty about it. Um,
don't feel guilty about it. I mean, that, you know, that's.
That's the kind of little needling types of things that
(21:23):
the devil wants to harass us with. Um, you know, look,
you say God bless you to anybody. I mean, you know,
God bless you. It's a, it's a kind thing to say,
and it's a, it's a hopeful thing to say. You're,
you're wanting God's blessing to come up on a person's life.
So I don't think you need to figure out.
(21:45):
Um, you know, what a person's religion is or what
their background is, or if they're worthy of being said
God bless you too, uh, you know, just, that just
came out of you, and that's
That's a good thing. So I, I wouldn't, um, I,
I mean, OK, technically we know that Mormonism is a cult,
(22:07):
and we know that in that context of Mormonism, people
don't really know the Lord, but hey, we're always hopeful that,
you know, people can come out of that and the
kindness of a Christian can be uh.
Something that God can use for that. So, would you
say it's almost the equivalent of, you know, and, and
(22:29):
I'm starting to see Halloween decorations at the store, which means,
you know, Christmas decorations will be coming up soon too.
But around Christmas time, is this the same thing as saying, well,
should we say Merry Christmas to somebody if we're not sure,
they may not be Christians, they might be full on atheists. Yeah. I,
I think it's a, it's a, it's like a cultural
thing like Phil Phil would know this, we, we spent
(22:51):
a lot of years in Europe and
Um, in, in Austria specifically, but the, the Germans do
it to some degree too, they greet one another with
this greeting as Gruscot, and Gruscot means like the blessings
of God. Now, nobody, when they greet you with Gruscott,
is actually thinking, hey, the blessings of God upon your life.
(23:13):
It's just the way they greet each other, you know,
it goes back to a time when probably the influence
of the church or whatever.
Um, but it's fine. It's, you know, it's a greeting.
But when you, but I think when you as a
Christian say that, you know, you mean more than just,
it's not just, uh, the, it's not just a greeting
to you, it's beyond that. You're, it's like a prayer
(23:33):
almost like you're, you're wishing you're, you're you're hoping for
the blessing of God. What do you think, Phil? Yeah, totally.
That's a great it's a great example.
The blessing, the goodness of God upon you. I, I
think there's cultural elements to that phrase, God bless you,
but I think you're right, as a Christian, there's something more.
And then then even like, let's just think about this
like theologically too, because this is important. God has blessed
(23:56):
the world, like he has. He has blessed the world
with his Son Jesus dying on a cross so that
anyone who puts their faith in him would be born again, so.
When we are saying God bless you, we're like, we're
attributing words that to something God has already and is
currently doing for the whole world, whether they deserve it
or not. So I think the blessings of God shouldn't
(24:18):
be seen as for those who are deserving or worthy
or right because all have sinned and fallen short of
the glory of God. So.
God bless you for a Christian is maybe the open
door of reminding ourselves and maybe somebody else if we
ever get the chance, that God is blessing. He's a
blessing God. So yeah, I think, and we can make,
(24:38):
you know, like I said, I, I, I might be
making a little bit much of that. It's a cultural thing.
Somebody sneezes and we say, God bless you. It's a
part of our, of our cultural, uh, you know,
Makeup, but it, it shouldn't be rejected just simply because
we're like, oh, they're Mormon, no, I can't say that, um, or,
or they're this, and I, I, you know, now we
(25:00):
say it because it's like it's a kind thing to
say and we also believe that it's actually true. God
is blessing people.
You know, I was, uh, it made me think of
the passage in Acts 14, which I actually taught last
um Sunday night when, um, in, in Iconium, you know,
Paul and Barnabas are preaching the gospel, and they heal
(25:20):
this man, and then the, the, the priest of the
temple of Zeus come out and they think, oh my gosh,
the gods have come to us in human form, you know,
and so they're trying to offer sacrifices to Paul and.
And Barnabas, uh, but Paul says, you know, don't, don't
do that, man, why are you doing these things? We
(25:41):
uh also are men within nature as you, and we
preach to you that you should turn from these things.
But then what you were saying, Phil, uh about God
has already blessed us. Listen to what Paul says to them,
he says, um,
He says you should turn from these useless things to
the living God who made the heaven, the earth, the sea,
and all things that are in them, who in bygone
(26:01):
generations allowed all nations to walk in their own ways. Nevertheless,
he did not leave himself without witness and that he
did good, gave us rain from heaven and fruitful seasons,
filling our hearts with food and gladness. God's done that
for everybody.
(26:22):
What is the verse that talks about if you, ah man,
I can't remember it word for word, but basically it's saying,
and I know people use this a lot against the
Jehovah's Witnesses. So if a Jehovah's Witness comes to your
door and they say goodbye, don't say goodbye to them because, yeah,
don't bid them Godspeed. Yes, what is that? I'm looking
for that.
That's, uh, John, uh, 2nd John. OK, yeah, 2nd. So
(26:45):
would that be the same kind of thing I think
that's a different thing. I think that there's a different
thing there because I think what John is saying, he's
talking about those who come to you, uh, who reject
the doctrine, um, and Jehovah's Witness is a great example
because they literally do reject the, you know, the person
of Jesus, who he is. And, and I think what
(27:05):
John is saying there is don't.
Don't embrace them as brothers. That's what he's saying, you know,
because they're not brothers. So you can't, you can't bid
him godspeed in the sense like, it's kind of like
Paul speaking to the Corinthians where he tells, um, he
tells them not to eat with certain people, you know, um.
(27:29):
Those who are fornicators, those who are um idolaters, those who,
you know, he, he goes through the list of things,
he says, don't even eat with such a person. Well, what,
what does he mean by that? I think what he's
saying is not like you know, you cannot sit down
and have a meal with a person like that. What
if it's like your child or what if it's your
(27:50):
spouse or something? No, I think what he's saying is
when he's talking about eating a meal with them, I
think
What he's warning against is that you would embrace them
as a brother or sister. That's what we can't do
because they're not, or or they're not living that way
and they need to recognize that. So it's not not
(28:12):
being kind, not greeting people, not being gracious, it's not
even don't eat with them, it's like, don't
Don't embrace them as though they're sin.
Doesn't matter. Don't embrace them as though they're false doctrine
doesn't matter. There's a point where you can't, you can
only go so far with it.
(28:34):
Paul, I hope this answers your question, but a really
quick question for you, and we only got about 45 seconds.
So why did you think your co-worker was a Christian
in the first place?
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Um, I can't remember this, um.
I, I, I might have asked him. I, I can't
remember what there was,
Speaker 1 (28:49):
uh, OK, yeah, because a lot of time, well, yeah,
you ask a Mormon and they will say that they're
so Paul, did that help you out at all?
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Oh yes, Pastor Brian, when you said, um, you can
say God bless you to anybody and just and just
feed my heart. So thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
All right, brother, awesome, Paul, go out and bless everyone.
Thanks for calling in today to Pastor's Perspective. We're gonna
take a quick break and then we'll be back with
more of your questions.
David, you're coming up next, and then we'll also get
to questions that were sent in online, but if you've
got a question that you want to ask Brian and
Phil today, you've got until 4 o'clock. So 888-564-6173 is
(29:28):
the number to call 888-564-6173.
(30:19):
Welcome back to Pastor's Perspective. Hey, if you are visiting
the area, or maybe you're new to the area, you're
in Orange County, you're looking for a church this Sunday,
Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa's here. Services at 8:30 and 11
in the morning.
There's also a 6:30 p.m. Bible study led by this
man right here, Brian Broderson. Yes, and this Sunday night,
(30:43):
we will not be in the fellowship hall, which we
are normally in because there's some remodeling going on there.
So yeah, we'll be in the sanctuary at 6:30 and
we will be studying the book of the Acts of
the Apostles, and we will be in chapter 15.
And then I will be gone for quite a few
weeks after that. But the study will go on with
(31:05):
my good friend John Chubik filling in for me teaching
the book of Jeremiah. So, yeah, 6:30 Sunday nights. Very good.
And if you're vacationing or new to the San Diego area,
Phil Metzger's got a church. Phil, tell us about Calvary
San Diego. I do, yeah. We are in the Chula
Vista area, so South San Diego, and, uh, we have
service Sunday mornings at 10:00 a.m.
(31:27):
And we actually currently have a Wednesday night, but only
for a couple more weeks. It's kind of our summer
barbecue in the park service and then after that we
start up our what we call connect groups or like
small groups or what we used to call home groups.
So we, we run home groups during the fall time
and of course people are welcome to join those, but
Sunday morning 10 a.m., best opportunity.
(31:48):
Very good. So Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa, CCCM.com or Calvary
San Diego CalvarySD.com. And if you're doing the opposite, maybe
you're going on vacation, make sure to download the Kwave
app so that you can take us with you wherever
you go and take Pastor's perspective with you wherever you go.
I want to go on vacation, so take me with you.
David and Rancho Cucamonga, you are next. Thank you for
(32:11):
calling 888-564-6173. What's your question for the pastors today?
Hi, good afternoon, gentlemen. Hey, um, I've been listening to
you for years. Thank you for all the work you do. Uh,
does God love everybody? And if he does, where in
scripture is that? Now, why do you ask that question
throughout the year? Why do you ask that question?
(32:33):
David, why do you ask that question?
I, I just wanna know. Oh, OK, Phil Metzger, what
do you say to David? Thanks for calling in, David,
and thanks for asking the question. So, does God love everybody? Yes,
absolutely 100%. What's the Bible verse? Maybe the most popular
Bible verse in our generation, and maybe many generations. John 3:16,
(32:55):
For God so loved the world that He gave His
only Son, that whoever would believe in him would not
perish but have everlasting life. So in that verse, Jesus.
Without any, there's no doubting Jesus says very clearly, God
loves everyone, and that's why Jesus came was to make
salvation for all people. So hopefully, I hope, uh does
(33:16):
that clear it up for you?
Is that the only verse? No, no, no, no, no,
there's plenty, but you just said give me a verse,
and I wanted to give you the one that every
football player, baseball player, soccer player, you're gonna see that everywhere,
and it's like crazy how many people use that verse
cause it is so clear on the love of God.
There's plenty of other passages that deal with the love
of God though.
(33:38):
Got you. But if that was the only verse, would
that not be enough for you? Why do you, why
do you say that?
But I'm not, I'm not, I'm not trying to debate it.
I just, I'm just an inquiring person at 63 years old.
I just wanna know. OK, Brian, perfect. Awesome. Thank you
for taking my call. Thank you for the answer. OK.
Thank you for calling in today. Did you have anything
(33:59):
to add though Brian? Uh, well,
I don't know. No, I, I was thinking that um
Uh, you know, yes, the answer, like Phil said, and,
and read it right there from scripture. Uh, the answer
is yes, but
Not everyone.
(34:19):
Who God loves experiences God's love in the way he
intends for them to do, because you have to, you know,
embrace that love in order to experience it. So, so
there's a passage in Jude that says keep yourselves in
the love of God. So it, it implies that you
can put yourself, even though God loves you, you can
(34:41):
put yourself outside of a place of experiencing the love
of God.
And so that that's a very real possibility, and we
don't wanna, we wanna make sure we don't do that.
You know, I think as an illustration, I often think of, um,
you know, say a child who is, um, you know,
this is your child, but you're estranged from your child
(35:02):
for
Whatever reasons, um, there's conflict, there's, there's dif difficulty, there's whatever,
whatever it is.
And here you are as a parent, and you're you're
looking on at your child and you think, gosh, I
love this child so much. There's so much I wanna
do for this child, uh, but I can't because they
(35:24):
won't let me, because they put themselves outside of that place.
That that's happened a gazillion times over in human history,
but I think it just, it's a little picture of
what can happen with us in relation to God too.
Yeah, that's so good. I, I would just be, if
(35:45):
the guys listening still are on there, I've been teaching
on 1 John at the church, so I'm like kind
of like wrapped up in the idea of the love
of God right now. Uh, just, you know, for more verses,
you could look at 1 John 3:1, behold what manner
of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we
should be called children of God. The world does not know,
but it does, it did not know him. First John
(36:07):
4:9 and 10, and this is the love of God
that was manifested to us that
God sent His only begotten Son into the world. This
is love, not that we love God, but that he
loved us and sent his Son as a propitiation. It
just goes on and on and on, and I think
that's such a good point that you're making, Brian, that like,
There's this all this lavish love from God, but it's,
it's a it's, it has to be an accepted love.
(36:29):
God won't force his love on any of us. In fact,
just think of how loving God is that he won't
do that. It's like if I, if I was like
a mean love, I'd be like, you will take my love.
That's the end of it. But it's such a gracious
love that's like God's like, you can still choose whether
you want me to love you or not. It's a
powerful thing.
(36:50):
David, thank you for your phone call today on Pastor's Perspective,
and now we'll go to Daniel, who's listening to us
on FM 107.9 K wave in Moreno Valley. Hey, Daniel,
how can we help you today?
Hey, I'm calling in to uh to ask a question.
Basically we're, we're at a Bible study last week and
uh the question came up that, you know, somebody, we're
(37:11):
all believers, so when somebody said, Hey, do you ever
feel like you could, you know, that you, you know,
happen to pass away, you know, do you ever have
that doubt that you might not get to heaven? And
then we got into kind of a discussion of some
people were saying, hey, yeah, there is a possibility that
you can lose your salvation. Let's say if you were
to like sin.
(37:32):
Uh, after you've already given your life to Christ and,
you know, chosen to turn and follow or repent and believe, um,
you know, if you do happen to sin afterwards, you know,
some believers were saying that they felt like they might not,
you know, they might not get to go, go to heaven.
Let's say if they were caught in that sin and
didn't repent at that time.
(37:52):
Um, you know, like if they were caught in their,
in their sin and died or something like that. So, uh, but,
you know, to my belief or my understanding is like,
you know, once you accept, you know, you Christ as your,
as your savior and, and you've chosen to, to turn,
you know, you've, you've been reconciled and, you know, nothing
can break that. uh, but, you know, there was just that,
(38:13):
that confusion and so I just wanted to get an
understanding from you guys, you know, you guys are the experts, so.
What are your thoughts, Brian?
Uh, well, Daniel, I'm, I'm with you. I think, um,
we would agree that when you receive Christ, you are,
(38:35):
you're placed in Christ, you're a new creation in Christ,
you're sealed with the Holy Spirit.
Until the day of redemption. So, um, the, you know,
the genuine receiving of Jesus, I think secures you for eternity. Now,
Do we at times feel like we might not make
(38:56):
it to heaven? Sure, because we look at our lives
and we think, gosh, my, you know, my life is
not right now. It's not really lining up with what
it should be lining up with or what I even believe.
And if I'm thinking that I'm gonna get to heaven
by by a righteous life, then I'm gonna doubt at
that moment whether I'm gonna make it.
(39:16):
Now, if I find myself in a place where I,
my life's not lining up with my belief in my
profession in Jesus, then I, I need to get my
life sorted out. I need to get back into a
place of obedience with the Lord, but, um,
The the idea that I'm gonna lose my salvation. I,
(39:38):
I think, although there's some passages that that could, you know,
you could kind of think that, OK, I get it
seems like it's saying that. um I think in the, the, um,
The preponderance of evidence is for.
Your salvation being secure forever once you've received Jesus.
(40:05):
Phil Metzger
Yeah, I, I totally agree. I, I almost think, and,
and this isn't to um the person asking the question
that he said this, but I, I think it kind
of ties into this idea is like
We, we really get stuck and I mean, this has
been a long debated, you know, conversation on eternal security
and whatnot. And, but I think for the majority of us,
(40:28):
we need to think of this more in the context
of kind of what it really is, which is a
relationship with God. And, and I think like uh like I, I,
this year I'm in, in this year I've been married
30 years to my wife Joy, right? And I'm not,
I'm not asking the questions like, what can, how far
can I go?
To really make her not leave me.
(40:52):
Like I'm not, that's not how I, that's not my
train of thought.
My train of thought is, gosh, what can I do
to be a blessing, to be an encouragement, to be
a support? And so I think like relationship shouldn't, you know,
as Christians, we need to like these are theological issues
we want to understand eternal security, the sovereignty of God,
free will, these kinds of things, but
(41:14):
Again, for the majority of us that are just thinking
about what does this look like in my, in my
Christian walk. It looks like this. I, I do make
mistakes in my marriage, and my wife is gracious to
be forgiving. That's also true in your relationship with God.
The idea that you would like sin and then die,
and then go to hell because of that is
Not only it's not it's, it's difficult to make that
(41:36):
case biblically, but more than that, like that doesn't speak
to the, the, the overwhelming expression in the Bible that
God wants to be in relationship with you, that he
would in one moment, just cut that off because of
something you did or didn't do or said or didn't
say or whatever.
It's, it really, it just, it's like we're minimizing how,
(41:57):
how radical it is that God went to such great
lengths to be in relationship with us, to make it
possible for us to have eternal life. And that we're,
we're kind of assuming he's like, he went so extreme
to make salvation possible and is ready just at a,
at a, at a, at a moment's notice to cut
us off from that. And I, I think that it
(42:17):
really doesn't speak to the whole of scripture. So, I
totally agree with Brian. I
I really do believe in the fact that like, you know,
at first John, you know, 5, John writes that he,
that we would know that we have eternal life. So
we don't have to, it's it's one thing to have
feelings of doubt, but to know in your heart that
you belong to Jesus, that's something that God wants for us.
(42:38):
Daniel, thanks for your phone call today on Pastor's Perspective.
Now let's talk to Janice. Looks like she's got somewhat
of a follow-up question. We were talking about Mormonism earlier today.
Janice calling in from San Diego, listening on FM 107.9.
What's your question, Janice?
Hi, thank you for taking my call. So a relative
and myself were both from a Jewish family. Uh, I've
(43:01):
accepted Jesus a long time ago. I'm baptized, and I've
been teaching my relatives about Jesus. And one day he
accepted Jesus and repented his sins. And, um, later on
in his life, he got sucked into the Mormon Church,
and he still believes in Jesus, but, um,
I mean, is he still saved because he's going to
(43:24):
a Mormon church and really doesn't know what he's doing?
Will Jesus still save him? Hm. What do you say, Brian?
Well, there's a lot.
It's a lot of factors there. Um, number one, you know,
is there a genuine salvation that occurred?
Um, is there an ongoing?
(43:48):
Relationship with Jesus, say, like through through the scriptures, does he,
does he read the word? Does hero in his understanding
of of who Christ is? Is he becoming more faithful
as a disciple as time goes on? All, all of
those things would mark or indicate like, yeah, you know,
there's genuine faith here. Um, the thing about the Mormon
(44:11):
thing though, I, I do think
You could be somebody who goes into Mormonism.
Not even knowing that they believe something different than what
you are thinking about Jesus because they don't really tell
you that up front, uh, they want you to just
(44:31):
feel like, hey, we're all Christians and this is what
we do and so, you know, there's lots of community
there and there's things that people can they they can
sort of get pulled in.
I've talked to so many Mormons that don't even, they don't,
and they were raised in Mormonism, they don't even know
what they believe. When I tell them stuff that their
church teaches, they said, our church does not teach that. No,
we don't, we don't believe that. Well, actually you do,
(44:54):
but they don't even know it. So I would say that, uh,
you know, um, I, I mean, I could be wrong,
and maybe they sat down with your relative and gave
them all the reasons why, you know, the Jesus of
the Bible isn't.
The right one, that he needed to follow the Jesus
of Mormonism and if in that case, that that's a,
that's a big problem, but if it's the other situation
(45:16):
where he's just
You know, lots of people join get into uh Mormonism
through the relational part of it, through the community aspect
of it, so.
Janice, what do you think?
Yeah, that's really true. He did get into it because
he was praising the community and everything, and yeah, like.
Have you, have you had any conversations with him about it? Like,
(45:39):
has he? Yes, and, and what is this, like, has
he embraced Mormon doctrine? Because, you know, Mormon doctrine, uh,
it denies the, the person, the biblical person of Jesus,
the Messiah, Mormon doctrine would reject that, you know, they would,
they would say that Jesus is, um,
You know, he's a created being, kind of like Jehovah's Witnesses.
(45:59):
He's not, he's not the, the one true God, uh,
he's not the second person of the Trinity. Uh, Mormons
don't even believe in the Trinity. So, have you had
conversations with him, like, has he embraced Mormon theology?
Well, he said it's actually a branch of the Mormon Church.
It's not full Mormon, but it's a branch. They gave
(46:21):
him the Book of Mormon. I said, don't read the
Book of Mormon. Um, he's not expressed. I'm trying to
teach him. He's not expressing, um, anything different that he
knows about Jesus, so I don't, I'm not sure if
they actually taught him something else. Um, I, you know,
it's just that I thought maybe with Jesus would just
(46:42):
know his heart.
And that he loves Jesus. Yeah, and maybe, maybe so,
and but like I said, I, I think the fact
that he's, it, it sounds more like he's just been
emotionally drawn in relationally drawn into this community.
Um, so keep teaching him the right stuff about Jesus.
(47:03):
And then, you know, if questions come up, you know,
maybe he'll say, hey, well, wait, I, I over here,
I heard they, they said this, and then you can
respond to that. Janice, thanks for calling us today. Now
we'll go to New Jersey. Here is Sam, who's watching
us on YouTube. Hey, Sam, how can we help you?
Hi guys, Lord bless you. Thanks. Thank you. So, uh, yeah, um,
(47:25):
so yeah, I just, I was hearing the other caller.
About how, um, you know, love God thing, and then
Brian said to keep yourself in love God. I'm like, well,
how do you do that? And I think it's obedience,
but I, it probably is more to it than that, so.
Could you shed some light on it?
(47:48):
Yeah, you know that like I said, that passages comes
from Jude and in the context there, uh, Jude talks about,
he talks about the angels who did not keep themselves
in that place of blessing, but they, they left their
first estate. Then he talks about um the ancient Israelites
(48:13):
who did a similar thing.
And then he talks about individuals there. I think he
talks about Cora, um, who was a person in the,
during the, the, the life of Moses in the wilderness, uh,
and then he I think he mentions Balaam there as well.
And so, you know, so those those are like examples
(48:36):
of uh people who.
They were in a relationship with God. They were in
a place for blessing from God, but they went off
in disobedience and off into sin, and they took themselves out.
So I think that that's, you know, the idea is
just stay connected. I think it's Jesus, um.
(48:59):
Aideed me and I and you, you know, I think
that's really what we're talking about here.
Phil, yeah, that, that was exactly where I wanted to go, Brian,
and then you did it right there at the last
second you went there, yes.
Yeah, I was thinking of that same verse where, you know, like,
and and maybe just to say to Sam here too like.
(49:20):
Staying in the love of God, it doesn't mean to
earn the love of God, right.
It means to abide, as Brian just shared. It's like
you're already in the love of God. God loves you,
and when you put your faith in Christ, you're actually
positioning yourself in the stream of God's love. And so
then what are we supposed to do? Stay there. We're
(49:41):
supposed to stay in the love of God. What's the
best way to do that? Oi.
But it's not obedience that again is like, it doesn't
earn you God's love. It, it just shows the evidence
that you are in God's love. And so obedience really
is a great way, but it's, it's not, it's not
the kind of obedience where you feel like, man, I
(50:02):
messed up. I don't think I've got God's love anymore.
It's
Yeah, I mean, cause I, and I think we often
forget this. I've been really stuck on this idea. Probably
the greatest expression of obedience every Christian will be a
part of in their lifetime is repentance.
That's the ultimate obedience. I messed up, and what does
God ask of me? to acknowledge it and to turn
(50:23):
away from that thing. Whatever that is. That is the
ultimate expression of obedience. So when we're like, oh, I
messed up. Oh no. Well, great. Now show the other
form of obedience. You messed up in one way. Here's
your opportunity. What's the best way we could show obedience? Lord,
I'm so sorry for that. Forgive me, and I want
to move forward. So we have so many opportunities to
(50:44):
show obedience to God.
Sam, thanks for calling in. Now we'll talk to Sal.
From Sam to Sal in Harupa Valley, listening on the
Kwave app. Hey Sal, thanks for calling in today.
Wow, it's like talking to celebrities. I'm a longtime listener,
first time caller. What took you so long to call in, Sal?
(51:05):
I hate the sound of my voice, dude. I'm like, are, are,
are you kidding me? Yeah, yeah, so that's what I've
been listening to you since the pastor checked me. So, well,
you sound, you sound pretty good on air, so, so
you know, have, you have to call more often now.
Yeah, I'll try I'll try I'll try.
(51:26):
But um, yeah, I left the, the screener my, the
name of the, the person I was, I was uh
talking about this, this, uh, apostle. She calls herself an apostle. Um,
there's a, a lady at my church that like promotes
her and, and sends out links to her videos, but
some of the stuff I watch her do is like,
I don't, I don't think it's on the up and up.
(51:46):
She has people bowing down to her and, and then the,
the leader that installed her actually they're right there bowing
down to him and it's, it's, it's a whole weird thing.
And also on some of the videos it shows the
same person being killed over and over. So they're because
she's a failed actress, I guess. So they're thinking that
she's carrying these other actors with her and she's putting
on these big, big, uh, events and she's also, uh,
(52:07):
based out of LA, so I was just wondering if
you guys know anything about her or if I'm on
the right. Well, I think your, your discernment is, is
really um spot on here, you know, this is just
This is hype and emotionalism, and it's not, it's not
(52:29):
the the Lord, it's not anything the spirit of God
is doing. We're looking at some videos right now and,
you know, this, this is, this, she's one of many
who have uh done these types of things where, you know,
they're supposedly casting out demons or they're healing or uh
you know, they're they're claiming some power.
And it's, it's more than anything, it's a big emotional experience.
(52:54):
And so I, I would, I mean, if I wouldn't
be going to a church that's promoting her at all.
Phil Mutz? No, I just agree. I'm watching the same
things that are on the screen that you're that you're
showing us in.
Yeah, it's super discouraging and that stuff is just really
(53:15):
bums me out because it's such a um we're all,
you know, humanity, we're like craving feeling, we're craving like
We're craving the divine, and then when we when we like,
and God's here and God's present, but then when we
do that, we just give people such the wrong impression
and I think it's taking more people away from God
than it is ever bringing people to God. It's really sad.
(53:38):
All right, Sal, thank you for calling us today here
on Pastor's Perspective. Another reminder that this Saturday we're going
to be Kwave is going to be at the SoCal
Harvest Crusade at Angel Stadium in Anaheim. And if you're
unable to go, though we do encourage you to go
and take your unsaved friends with you, we're gonna be
live streaming it on the Kwave Facebook page, Kwave Facebook,
(53:59):
not the pastor's perspective Facebook, the K-wave.
KFWB, oh wait, no, that's, it's K, never mind, it's
Kwave K K waves Facebook page, and, uh, you can
register to get reminders. We're gonna start at about 6
o'clock and then we're gonna show the whole crusade there
on our stream so you can maybe have a little
watch party there in your home and invite people to, um,
(54:22):
to watch with you there. Now, uh, we did receive
a prayer request here.
Uh, Brian, if you wouldn't mind praying, I'm trying to
find it here, but we got a call from a.
Woman who said, Can you please pray for Pastor Otto?
He is being deported to Guatemala today. She wants him,
his wife wants him to remain safe. She hasn't heard
(54:43):
from him since 3 o'clock this morning. Oh my, yeah, yeah, Lord,
we do pray for Pastor Otto and Lord, you're with him,
and may he just trust you at this time. And,
and Lord, you know all things, you know all the
details and
And you've allowed this and so may they just see
(55:05):
through the confusion, the hands of the Lord in all this, and,
and may you use it for Otto's good and for
your glory and for his family's good in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen.
Novella, sorry that we couldn't speak with you today. Please
call us back tomorrow as well as everybody else who
(55:26):
couldn't get on. We will be on from 3 to 4,
but that's all the time we have today. Thank you
so much for listening and watching. If you want to
share today's program with your friends, it'll be archived on Facebook, YouTube,
Apple Podcasts, and Spotify, and we look forward to talking
to you next time for Brian Broderson and Phil Metzger,
I'm Brian Perez. Thank you for listening to and watching
(55:47):
Pastor's Perspective.
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez.
So great to have you with us today. We're gonna
answer your questions about the Bible, the Christian faith, just
about anything you want to talk about today. 888-564-6173 is
the number to call. You can also watch us live
stream on Facebook, YouTube, and
(00:34):
Instagram, you can scan the QR code on Facebook, YouTube
and Instagram, and that'll take you to the page where
you can submit your question to us. You can also
submit your question on the pastor's perspective Facebook Messenger, or on, um,
what's the other one? Um, um, those, oh, the direct
message DM on the pastor's perspective Instagram.
(00:55):
And I'm a little rusty after taking a day off,
but that was 2 days ago, so I don't know
what my problem is. Help me, Pastor Brian Broderson. You're
my only hope. Pastor Brian Yoderson, as we, uh, found
last week. Do you still have that photo, Phil? I'm
sure you do somewhere. Absolutely. It's whenever he calls me,
that's the picture that I get to see now.
Oh, I don't know about that. Brian and Phil are
(01:19):
here today. Yes, Brian Broderson, Phil Metzger, Brian from Calvary Chapel,
Costa Mesa. Phil from Calvary San Diego, how are you
guys doing?
Well, how are we doing? Um, I'm doing OK. I've had, uh,
just spent some time with a, a good friend today
who's down from Washington state and then looking at um
(01:44):
a bunch of furniture that I get to move tomorrow,
which I'm super excited about. I try to pick up
a couch that weighed like 500 pounds, so trying to
figure out how I'm gonna get that up my up
my stairs, but
You know, we will cross that threshold when we get there.
In more ways than one. So that so that's that's been.
(02:07):
That's been my day for the most part.
Lots of heavy lifting and things like that. He lifting.
That's kind of normal for you, yeah, yeah, that's me.
Phil, what's new with you?
Not much guys, you know, we're we're getting gearing up
for school. Um, our K through 8 school starts on Monday. Wow,
I know you're around school, baby. That is early.
(02:30):
Why so early?
Year-round school, that is so wrong. That's just my goodness.
Is it year round? Is that, is that your deal? Yeah,
but here's the thing.
As soon as September comes, we get a two week break.
And then at Christmas time we get a 3 week break,
and then the spring we get a 2 week break.
So it, it, once listen, July is terrible, but then
(02:52):
September comes and you're like, all right, this isn't so bad.
Or is that San Diego thing? I, I mean, I,
you know, things have changed so much over the years.
I don't know. I, I think we have a proper
kind of a summer break at our school.
Um, yeah, we, um, every, there's a freeway down here
called the 54, it's kind of a south north south freeway.
(03:14):
Every school south of the 54 freeway down here is
a year-round school, no kidding. Yeah. So what's the, what's
the relationship with the 54? Anything other than it just
coincidentally happens to be that. I think it's the like
the um boundary of a school district is my guess. OK,
but I'll tell you what, and um.
(03:36):
What's his name, um, that wrote, um, The Outliers, what's, uh,
Malcolm Gladwell. He writes about and, and I, I really
see it now that that students should only have a
six week break. After that, they start to lose what
they learned the year before. So.
Um, so the year round school model uses the, it
(03:56):
wasn't what it was intended for, but it actually is
really useful for like the kids are off for 6
weeks and they come back. We don't spend tons of
weeks of like rebuilding what they learned because they're ready
to go still. And um, so it has kind of
educational value and honestly you kind of get used to it,
but it's July is rough. I'll be honest, July is
rough guys.
(04:17):
So were you off for the month of July?
No, we're off the, um, we, we get out in
the middle of May and we come back July, so
we're on oh you're on, OK, yeah, yeah, we're, we've
been doing um teacher training and all that fun stuff.
So I spent 2.5 hours in CPR, guys, and first aid.
That was wow, man.
Exciting. I didn't get to lift a couch. I wanted
(04:39):
to after you sit for long enough, you're like, I'll
lift the couch with Brian. Yeah, let's go. I might,
I might need CPR after tomorrow when I, oh yeah,
try to better make your way up here just in case.
All right, 888-564-6173, call us up with your questions, but, uh,
we're gonna begin with one that was sent in online.
(05:02):
Molly listens in, I'm sorry, Mellie listens in Anaheim.
And says, my 18 year old daughter has a personal
relationship with God. She's humble, so kind. She reads the
word daily, she shares the word when she gets the opportunity.
I know God has a calling for her. She serves
in children's ministry at church, and she's having dreams that
seem so real, biblically related, but lately, she has said
(05:26):
that she feels the presence.
of God only in a Catholic church. She's a Christian.
She goes to a Christian church, sometimes a Catholic church.
She doesn't believe in idols or Catholic doctrines and rules,
but she says God's presence has felt more there lately.
And also, she knows God wants her to help the
older generation from the Catholic Church because a lot of
(05:47):
them are so lonely. I guess it's good, but my
worry is thinking if she is doing wrong by going
to a Catholic church. Is this a sin?
I mean, they do read the same gospels, but sometimes
they are interpreted differently. I don't want to tell her
not to go because I don't want to discourage her
from discipling. I know she definitely is called by God,
(06:08):
the way she speaks about him and his word grabs
anyone's attention, even non-believers. Would you please tell me your
perspective on this, Brian, what would you say to Mellie
and her 18 year old daughter?
Wow, um, well, I think we need to
We, we need to recognize that God is at work
(06:28):
in the Catholic Church and um
Uh, you know, I, I have heard some stories recently
from very reliable sources about some really beautiful things that,
that is, uh, that are that are happening in, in
the context of of the Catholic Church. You know, the
Catholic Church today is not the Catholic Church of my generation,
(06:52):
where uh there was not a real focus on Bible
study and things like that. There's a, there's a lot
that's changed in the Catholic Church these days.
And um Bishop Robert Barron is a great example of
a Catholic leader who is a solidly evangelical guy and,
you know, believes in the authority of scripture and teaches
(07:15):
the Bible like a, you know, like an evangelical pastor
would teach the Bible. So, so I think we need
to
Be careful that we're not, you know, painting the, the
Catholic Church as this, oh my gosh, if you go
in there, you're gonna lose your salvation or something like that.
I think that that's something that we need to to
pull back from. Uh, now, each church is uh has
(07:38):
its individual emphasis and characteristics and things, so
Um, there are churches where the leaders are more biblically oriented,
and I think that's, that's excellent because, you know, you
can't really grow in your faith apart from the influence
of scripture on your life, the study of scripture, and
so forth. So, a church that emphasizes the Bible.
(08:02):
Great, good things are gonna happen there. Uh, a church
that neglects the Bible and just sticks to just a
basic homily because, you know, the homily, you have to
do it because that's what you do on Sunday, uh,
that's not gonna be that helpful. So, um, but as
far as it's sensing the presence of God, that's interesting.
I, I do think that, you know, we, there's, there's
(08:26):
what you call high church and there's low church and
high church is a way to refer to like a
church that has a uh an or an elaborate liturgy
and you know, all of the um the things that
would the the incense and the bells and the imagery
(08:49):
and all of the things that would um
You know, touch the senses and a low church is
kind of just the other end of the spectrum of that,
you know, basically you're in a warehouse that was turned
into a church and you've got shag carpet and you've
got your chairs and you know, you don't have any
(09:10):
art or anything on the wall cause you don't wanna
become idolatrous. So it's just like the stripped down barest
thing you can.
Now, a lot of times evangelical churches are, are really
low church like that. So there's no, there's no opportunity
for uh in a sense, sort of a an emotional
(09:31):
slash spiritual connection with the with the atmosphere. And I
think what happens is I think some people who grow
up in low church kind of places, they go into
a high church situation.
And they feel something there because wow, this is different.
And and I think, I think they can mistake that
(09:53):
feeling for the presence of God, because they're in awe
of the, the ritual and they're in awe of all
of the, you know, different components that go into the service, and,
and that can touch them, but I'm, I'm afraid that
it
It's more of an emotional touch that's been mistaken for
(10:13):
a spiritual touch, so.
Yeah, I was kind of just rereading the question too
and thinking about that and um it sounds like this,
this young gal like it's like a missional kind of
a heart, right to be there for some of the
older folks and support them.
(10:34):
Which is, um, you know, really sweet, and, uh, you know,
I guess, I guess I would totally just agree with
everything Brian just shared. There is a
There's something about for a lot of people who grew
up in the, like you said, low church, the non-denominational movement,
we just, there is this like craving for like things
(10:55):
that we would maybe some of us would go, I
thought we came out of that, but then you realize, no,
that's not what we came out. We didn't come out
of high church. We came out of like anything that
is dead. We came out of dead church and not
all high church is dead church. It's just that's just
an unfair thing.
Not all, not because that would equate that all low
(11:16):
church is real and that's not true either. You it
could be dead, whether it's like, you know, jeans and
t-shirt or you're wearing a robe and a collar and
the whole thing. So the fact that there's like this
interest and resurgence doesn't surprise me like you said.
Um, if you're there, you know, if she's there as
a like a real missional approach to life, like, gosh,
I just wanna support these people that are in this situation. I, I,
(11:40):
I think that would be one thing.
On the other hand, I would, you know, and again,
as Brian said, every church is very unique and, uh,
but is there like, you know, are we gonna grow
in the word? Are we gonna get to grow in
our Christian faith in that context? those would be the
questions I'd be more concerned with. And I would obviously
be concerned with like, if you're hearing something that isn't,
(12:01):
you know, there's there's some amazing, uh, like Brian pointed out,
some amazing people in the Catholic movement who are like
preaching in the same way we would.
Uh, but then I would kind of question like, is
that what you're getting? Or are you having to decipher
between they're talking about this or that, and I don't
believe this, and I don't believe that. But I like this,
and I do think there's a point where that, that,
(12:22):
that can become pretty, pretty distracting to your own Christian faith,
where you're spending more time trying to weed out, like,
is this biblical or not? And that's, that is, you know,
there's something to be said about being a
Uh, a Berean Acts 17, you know, you're gonna search
the scriptures, but some things have already been established, you know,
the idolatry or the prayer to saints and so on.
(12:43):
We wanna, like, maybe, you know, to be in a
situation where you're always in that, that could be a
lot every Sunday. If it's a missional hard to reach people,
I get that, but maybe as it being your, your,
your whole context for Christian growth, I might challenge if
that's going to be the case in every single, uh,
Catholic Church.
Mellie, thank you for sending in your question through the
(13:06):
Kwave.com Pastor's perspective page. We might get to some more
of those submitted questions a little bit later, but right
now we're gonna go to the phones at 888-564-6173, starting
with John in Riverside, who's watching us on YouTube. Hi there, John.
We'll wave to John since he's watching us online. How
can we help you today, John?
(13:28):
I think, I think it's me. Oh, Joe, I'm sorry, man. I,
I totally messed up today. You are slipping. I need
another day off. What's going on? You need a cup
of coffee? Yes, it's been a few hours. Go ahead, John.
I'm sorry.
Yeah, I mean, but his question is about John. That's
(13:49):
what I was thinking. That's what I was thinking. His
question is about John, because there is no book of
Joe in the Bible. There's a book of John in
the Bible, and Joe has a question about John. Let's
hear it, Joe.
Yeah, Jesus says,
Speaker 2 (14:01):
I assure you that the time is coming indeed
is here now and
the dead will hear my voice, the voice of God,
and those.
Uh, basically they have eternal life.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
So is he talking about the people that died before
he came.
Yeah, I think so.
Oh, OK, so, so basically.
The people who died before him, he didn't know.
Jesus, the savior.
He he's gonna basically, they're, they're gonna have a chance
to have eternal life, right?
(14:34):
Well, we
We don't know um exactly what what the case is.
It does seem like, you know, everybody who died before
Jesus came died.
Um, let's just take it outside of Israel. So you
have Israel, they're the chosen people, they're God's covenant people,
(14:55):
and they have the Messianic promise and all of that.
So you have the Jews, and, and they die, but
they die with faith in the promise. The Gentiles are
outside of all of that, so they're strangers of the covenant,
they're not members of the household of God.
Um, they're Paul says they're without hope and they're without
God in the world. Uh, that's, that's the state of
(15:18):
the Gentile world. Now, people died, of course, in that condition,
but it doesn't necessarily mean that they died and perished
and went to hell, um, because they didn't have the
knowledge of salvation to be able to embrace the savior. So,
(15:39):
Um, when Jesus, you know, there's passages that talk about
Jesus descending into the lower parts of the earth, and
he proclaims, um, liberty to the captives and things like that. So,
So even though there's nothing that's like crystal clear that says, oh,
the people that died before they, this, this is what
(16:00):
happens now. Jesus goes and, you know, they have another chance.
Uh there are things that seem to
Indicate that that probably something like that happened, at least
to me. Metzger. And I'm, I'm curious, Brian, what you
would think to this. Like, do you think it could
also have the meaning of like, the dead will hear
the voice of the Son of God and that all
(16:22):
are dead in trespasses and sins could be, and that,
you know, he's kind of being very literal there they're like, hey,
we're all dead in our sins and then we will
hear and be able to come to life. Exactly, yeah,
for people that are
They look like they're living, but they're actually dead. And
now the time is coming, they're gonna hear the voice
of the Son of God. Yeah. What do you think, Joe?
Speaker 2 (16:43):
So basically,
it might be me um just a metaphor.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Um, well, not a metaphor, but it could be, it
could like Phil's saying, it could be speaking about, um,
people who are spiritually dead, and that's the condition, you know,
we're dead in our trespasses and sins, that's what we're told.
So Jesus is now speaking about the fact that that
people are going, that people who are dead in their
trespasses and sins are going to hear his voice, and
(17:12):
they're going to um
You know, be made alive.
All right, Joe, thanks for your phone call today here
on Pastor's Perspective at 888-564-6173. Now we'll go up to Richmond, Washington,
where Paul is also watching us on YouTube. Thanks you
guys for watching us on YouTube. Make sure to share
the video with your friends so that they can, uh,
(17:35):
have their questions answered too by calling 888-564-6173. Paul, what
did you want to ask Brian and Phil?
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Um, yeah, um, I was in a, a conversation with
the
Uh, sort of a co-worker, we both work in the
same building.
Um, but the company is kind of split, but they're
kind of still together. It's like we're, we're under their company,
I think.
But um, so it's like we're co-workers, but I, I,
(18:05):
I was talking to him and, and, uh.
I had the feeling he was, I, uh, somehow I, I, I, I,
I thought he was a Christian. I can't remember if
I asked him or not one day. And then so
I thought he was a Christian, and then, you know,
I would just, just say hi and by when I
walked by his work area and then um.
We uh
(18:28):
Today we were um talking a little bit and um
I can't remember when it was, but um not too
long ago I found out he's a Mormon. I was like, oh,
he he's a Mormon and then so I had to
come so close to becoming a Mormon. I took all
this teaching.
And then right before I had, um, all I could
do is fill out this paperwork and I could become
a Mormon and I couldn't do it.
(18:50):
It's like I couldn't fill out the paper, I couldn't
sign it, and it's like I didn't trust them somehow
or some reason.
And then when I, when I backed up from signing that,
I ended up hearing um
Like Chuck Smith on the radio.
Here in Richmond, Washington, and then I walked into a
church where I didn't know it was the guy that
(19:14):
was on this radio station right after Chuck Smith became
my pastor.
And so after turning away to the Mormons, I ended
up walking to a Calvary Chapel Church in Richmond City, Washington,
and I thought it was so cool how God moves.
Um, to leading me to the right place.
And uh my wife, I, I came close to becoming
(19:35):
a Mormon because my wife had become a Mormon, and
then after I said, you know what, let me, you,
you should come check out this church, and she's thought
in her mind, she said, OK, well, you came to
my church and so I'll go to your church. And
then right the first day we went there, she goes,
this is where we belong.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
That's so cool. So what's your main question for us today?
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yeah, I'm sorry. I, I, I, I, I feel kind
of guilty. Um, a lot of times I feel so, um,
like a Pharisey and, and it's like I try too hard,
and I know it's not about the laws, and I
feel so, so condemning sometimes like when, when people call on,
on your station and they, and they say that they
have these problems and I think my heart, I think, man,
(20:16):
why are you doing that?
And then, but when you guys speak there's so much
grace and love, and I was like, wow, I want
to be like those guys, you know, and, um, but
so when, when I was talking with this guy we
and and then we're talking, um, I, I can't remember
what we're talking about. I, I, I had to go
back because I forgot my bible there for the weekend.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Well, what it says on the screen here is that
you want to know if it's OK to say God
bless you to a Mormon. So I guess yeah, as
you guys were having your conversation and
Yeah. Is it OK to say God bless you to
a Mormon? What do you think, Brian?
Well, I, I don't think that um
(20:59):
Uh, you know, just, just listening to what Paul is
saying and kind of imagining that context, and he didn't
actually get there, but it, like you said, the question
says that. So, you know, maybe at some point he
just says, you know, God bless you as he's leaving
or whatever, um, and now he's feeling guilty about it. Um,
don't feel guilty about it. I mean, that, you know, that's.
That's the kind of little needling types of things that
(21:23):
the devil wants to harass us with. Um, you know, look,
you say God bless you to anybody. I mean, you know,
God bless you. It's a, it's a kind thing to say,
and it's a, it's a hopeful thing to say. You're,
you're wanting God's blessing to come up on a person's life.
So I don't think you need to figure out.
(21:45):
Um, you know, what a person's religion is or what
their background is, or if they're worthy of being said
God bless you too, uh, you know, just, that just
came out of you, and that's
That's a good thing. So I, I wouldn't, um, I,
I mean, OK, technically we know that Mormonism is a cult,
(22:07):
and we know that in that context of Mormonism, people
don't really know the Lord, but hey, we're always hopeful that,
you know, people can come out of that and the
kindness of a Christian can be uh.
Something that God can use for that. So, would you
say it's almost the equivalent of, you know, and, and
(22:29):
I'm starting to see Halloween decorations at the store, which means,
you know, Christmas decorations will be coming up soon too.
But around Christmas time, is this the same thing as saying, well,
should we say Merry Christmas to somebody if we're not sure,
they may not be Christians, they might be full on atheists. Yeah. I,
I think it's a, it's a, it's like a cultural
thing like Phil Phil would know this, we, we spent
(22:51):
a lot of years in Europe and
Um, in, in Austria specifically, but the, the Germans do
it to some degree too, they greet one another with
this greeting as Gruscot, and Gruscot means like the blessings
of God. Now, nobody, when they greet you with Gruscott,
is actually thinking, hey, the blessings of God upon your life.
(23:13):
It's just the way they greet each other, you know,
it goes back to a time when probably the influence
of the church or whatever.
Um, but it's fine. It's, you know, it's a greeting.
But when you, but I think when you as a
Christian say that, you know, you mean more than just,
it's not just, uh, the, it's not just a greeting
to you, it's beyond that. You're, it's like a prayer
(23:33):
almost like you're, you're wishing you're, you're you're hoping for
the blessing of God. What do you think, Phil? Yeah, totally.
That's a great it's a great example.
The blessing, the goodness of God upon you. I, I
think there's cultural elements to that phrase, God bless you,
but I think you're right, as a Christian, there's something more.
And then then even like, let's just think about this
like theologically too, because this is important. God has blessed
(23:56):
the world, like he has. He has blessed the world
with his Son Jesus dying on a cross so that
anyone who puts their faith in him would be born again, so.
When we are saying God bless you, we're like, we're
attributing words that to something God has already and is
currently doing for the whole world, whether they deserve it
or not. So I think the blessings of God shouldn't
(24:18):
be seen as for those who are deserving or worthy
or right because all have sinned and fallen short of
the glory of God. So.
God bless you for a Christian is maybe the open
door of reminding ourselves and maybe somebody else if we
ever get the chance, that God is blessing. He's a
blessing God. So yeah, I think, and we can make,
(24:38):
you know, like I said, I, I, I might be
making a little bit much of that. It's a cultural thing.
Somebody sneezes and we say, God bless you. It's a
part of our, of our cultural, uh, you know,
Makeup, but it, it shouldn't be rejected just simply because
we're like, oh, they're Mormon, no, I can't say that, um, or,
or they're this, and I, I, you know, now we
(25:00):
say it because it's like it's a kind thing to
say and we also believe that it's actually true. God
is blessing people.
You know, I was, uh, it made me think of
the passage in Acts 14, which I actually taught last
um Sunday night when, um, in, in Iconium, you know,
Paul and Barnabas are preaching the gospel, and they heal
(25:20):
this man, and then the, the, the priest of the
temple of Zeus come out and they think, oh my gosh,
the gods have come to us in human form, you know,
and so they're trying to offer sacrifices to Paul and.
And Barnabas, uh, but Paul says, you know, don't, don't
do that, man, why are you doing these things? We
(25:41):
uh also are men within nature as you, and we
preach to you that you should turn from these things.
But then what you were saying, Phil, uh about God
has already blessed us. Listen to what Paul says to them,
he says, um,
He says you should turn from these useless things to
the living God who made the heaven, the earth, the sea,
and all things that are in them, who in bygone
(26:01):
generations allowed all nations to walk in their own ways. Nevertheless,
he did not leave himself without witness and that he
did good, gave us rain from heaven and fruitful seasons,
filling our hearts with food and gladness. God's done that
for everybody.
(26:22):
What is the verse that talks about if you, ah man,
I can't remember it word for word, but basically it's saying,
and I know people use this a lot against the
Jehovah's Witnesses. So if a Jehovah's Witness comes to your
door and they say goodbye, don't say goodbye to them because, yeah,
don't bid them Godspeed. Yes, what is that? I'm looking
for that.
That's, uh, John, uh, 2nd John. OK, yeah, 2nd. So
(26:45):
would that be the same kind of thing I think
that's a different thing. I think that there's a different
thing there because I think what John is saying, he's
talking about those who come to you, uh, who reject
the doctrine, um, and Jehovah's Witness is a great example
because they literally do reject the, you know, the person
of Jesus, who he is. And, and I think what
(27:05):
John is saying there is don't.
Don't embrace them as brothers. That's what he's saying, you know,
because they're not brothers. So you can't, you can't bid
him godspeed in the sense like, it's kind of like
Paul speaking to the Corinthians where he tells, um, he
tells them not to eat with certain people, you know, um.
(27:29):
Those who are fornicators, those who are um idolaters, those who,
you know, he, he goes through the list of things,
he says, don't even eat with such a person. Well, what,
what does he mean by that? I think what he's
saying is not like you know, you cannot sit down
and have a meal with a person like that. What
if it's like your child or what if it's your
(27:50):
spouse or something? No, I think what he's saying is
when he's talking about eating a meal with them, I
think
What he's warning against is that you would embrace them
as a brother or sister. That's what we can't do
because they're not, or or they're not living that way
and they need to recognize that. So it's not not
(28:12):
being kind, not greeting people, not being gracious, it's not
even don't eat with them, it's like, don't
Don't embrace them as though they're sin.
Doesn't matter. Don't embrace them as though they're false doctrine
doesn't matter. There's a point where you can't, you can
only go so far with it.
(28:34):
Paul, I hope this answers your question, but a really
quick question for you, and we only got about 45 seconds.
So why did you think your co-worker was a Christian
in the first place?
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Um, I can't remember this, um.
I, I, I might have asked him. I, I can't
remember what there was,
Speaker 1 (28:49):
uh, OK, yeah, because a lot of time, well, yeah,
you ask a Mormon and they will say that they're
so Paul, did that help you out at all?
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Oh yes, Pastor Brian, when you said, um, you can
say God bless you to anybody and just and just
feed my heart. So thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
All right, brother, awesome, Paul, go out and bless everyone.
Thanks for calling in today to Pastor's Perspective. We're gonna
take a quick break and then we'll be back with
more of your questions.
David, you're coming up next, and then we'll also get
to questions that were sent in online, but if you've
got a question that you want to ask Brian and
Phil today, you've got until 4 o'clock. So 888-564-6173 is
(29:28):
the number to call 888-564-6173.
(30:19):
Welcome back to Pastor's Perspective. Hey, if you are visiting
the area, or maybe you're new to the area, you're
in Orange County, you're looking for a church this Sunday,
Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa's here. Services at 8:30 and 11
in the morning.
There's also a 6:30 p.m. Bible study led by this
man right here, Brian Broderson. Yes, and this Sunday night,
(30:43):
we will not be in the fellowship hall, which we
are normally in because there's some remodeling going on there.
So yeah, we'll be in the sanctuary at 6:30 and
we will be studying the book of the Acts of
the Apostles, and we will be in chapter 15.
And then I will be gone for quite a few
weeks after that. But the study will go on with
(31:05):
my good friend John Chubik filling in for me teaching
the book of Jeremiah. So, yeah, 6:30 Sunday nights. Very good.
And if you're vacationing or new to the San Diego area,
Phil Metzger's got a church. Phil, tell us about Calvary
San Diego. I do, yeah. We are in the Chula
Vista area, so South San Diego, and, uh, we have
service Sunday mornings at 10:00 a.m.
(31:27):
And we actually currently have a Wednesday night, but only
for a couple more weeks. It's kind of our summer
barbecue in the park service and then after that we
start up our what we call connect groups or like
small groups or what we used to call home groups.
So we, we run home groups during the fall time
and of course people are welcome to join those, but
Sunday morning 10 a.m., best opportunity.
(31:48):
Very good. So Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa, CCCM.com or Calvary
San Diego CalvarySD.com. And if you're doing the opposite, maybe
you're going on vacation, make sure to download the Kwave
app so that you can take us with you wherever
you go and take Pastor's perspective with you wherever you go.
I want to go on vacation, so take me with you.
David and Rancho Cucamonga, you are next. Thank you for
(32:11):
calling 888-564-6173. What's your question for the pastors today?
Hi, good afternoon, gentlemen. Hey, um, I've been listening to
you for years. Thank you for all the work you do. Uh,
does God love everybody? And if he does, where in
scripture is that? Now, why do you ask that question
throughout the year? Why do you ask that question?
(32:33):
David, why do you ask that question?
I, I just wanna know. Oh, OK, Phil Metzger, what
do you say to David? Thanks for calling in, David,
and thanks for asking the question. So, does God love everybody? Yes,
absolutely 100%. What's the Bible verse? Maybe the most popular
Bible verse in our generation, and maybe many generations. John 3:16,
(32:55):
For God so loved the world that He gave His
only Son, that whoever would believe in him would not
perish but have everlasting life. So in that verse, Jesus.
Without any, there's no doubting Jesus says very clearly, God
loves everyone, and that's why Jesus came was to make
salvation for all people. So hopefully, I hope, uh does
(33:16):
that clear it up for you?
Is that the only verse? No, no, no, no, no,
there's plenty, but you just said give me a verse,
and I wanted to give you the one that every
football player, baseball player, soccer player, you're gonna see that everywhere,
and it's like crazy how many people use that verse
cause it is so clear on the love of God.
There's plenty of other passages that deal with the love
of God though.
(33:38):
Got you. But if that was the only verse, would
that not be enough for you? Why do you, why
do you say that?
But I'm not, I'm not, I'm not trying to debate it.
I just, I'm just an inquiring person at 63 years old.
I just wanna know. OK, Brian, perfect. Awesome. Thank you
for taking my call. Thank you for the answer. OK.
Thank you for calling in today. Did you have anything
(33:59):
to add though Brian? Uh, well,
I don't know. No, I, I was thinking that um
Uh, you know, yes, the answer, like Phil said, and,
and read it right there from scripture. Uh, the answer
is yes, but
Not everyone.
(34:19):
Who God loves experiences God's love in the way he
intends for them to do, because you have to, you know,
embrace that love in order to experience it. So, so
there's a passage in Jude that says keep yourselves in
the love of God. So it, it implies that you
can put yourself, even though God loves you, you can
(34:41):
put yourself outside of a place of experiencing the love
of God.
And so that that's a very real possibility, and we
don't wanna, we wanna make sure we don't do that.
You know, I think as an illustration, I often think of, um,
you know, say a child who is, um, you know,
this is your child, but you're estranged from your child
(35:02):
for
Whatever reasons, um, there's conflict, there's, there's dif difficulty, there's whatever,
whatever it is.
And here you are as a parent, and you're you're
looking on at your child and you think, gosh, I
love this child so much. There's so much I wanna
do for this child, uh, but I can't because they
(35:24):
won't let me, because they put themselves outside of that place.
That that's happened a gazillion times over in human history,
but I think it just, it's a little picture of
what can happen with us in relation to God too.
Yeah, that's so good. I, I would just be, if
(35:45):
the guys listening still are on there, I've been teaching
on 1 John at the church, so I'm like kind
of like wrapped up in the idea of the love
of God right now. Uh, just, you know, for more verses,
you could look at 1 John 3:1, behold what manner
of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we
should be called children of God. The world does not know,
but it does, it did not know him. First John
(36:07):
4:9 and 10, and this is the love of God
that was manifested to us that
God sent His only begotten Son into the world. This
is love, not that we love God, but that he
loved us and sent his Son as a propitiation. It
just goes on and on and on, and I think
that's such a good point that you're making, Brian, that like,
There's this all this lavish love from God, but it's,
it's a it's, it has to be an accepted love.
(36:29):
God won't force his love on any of us. In fact,
just think of how loving God is that he won't
do that. It's like if I, if I was like
a mean love, I'd be like, you will take my love.
That's the end of it. But it's such a gracious
love that's like God's like, you can still choose whether
you want me to love you or not. It's a
powerful thing.
(36:50):
David, thank you for your phone call today on Pastor's Perspective,
and now we'll go to Daniel, who's listening to us
on FM 107.9 K wave in Moreno Valley. Hey, Daniel,
how can we help you today?
Hey, I'm calling in to uh to ask a question.
Basically we're, we're at a Bible study last week and
uh the question came up that, you know, somebody, we're
(37:11):
all believers, so when somebody said, Hey, do you ever
feel like you could, you know, that you, you know,
happen to pass away, you know, do you ever have
that doubt that you might not get to heaven? And
then we got into kind of a discussion of some
people were saying, hey, yeah, there is a possibility that
you can lose your salvation. Let's say if you were
to like sin.
(37:32):
Uh, after you've already given your life to Christ and,
you know, chosen to turn and follow or repent and believe, um,
you know, if you do happen to sin afterwards, you know,
some believers were saying that they felt like they might not,
you know, they might not get to go, go to heaven.
Let's say if they were caught in that sin and
didn't repent at that time.
(37:52):
Um, you know, like if they were caught in their,
in their sin and died or something like that. So, uh, but,
you know, to my belief or my understanding is like,
you know, once you accept, you know, you Christ as your,
as your savior and, and you've chosen to, to turn,
you know, you've, you've been reconciled and, you know, nothing
can break that. uh, but, you know, there was just that,
(38:13):
that confusion and so I just wanted to get an
understanding from you guys, you know, you guys are the experts, so.
What are your thoughts, Brian?
Uh, well, Daniel, I'm, I'm with you. I think, um,
we would agree that when you receive Christ, you are,
(38:35):
you're placed in Christ, you're a new creation in Christ,
you're sealed with the Holy Spirit.
Until the day of redemption. So, um, the, you know,
the genuine receiving of Jesus, I think secures you for eternity. Now,
Do we at times feel like we might not make
(38:56):
it to heaven? Sure, because we look at our lives
and we think, gosh, my, you know, my life is
not right now. It's not really lining up with what
it should be lining up with or what I even believe.
And if I'm thinking that I'm gonna get to heaven
by by a righteous life, then I'm gonna doubt at
that moment whether I'm gonna make it.
(39:16):
Now, if I find myself in a place where I,
my life's not lining up with my belief in my
profession in Jesus, then I, I need to get my
life sorted out. I need to get back into a
place of obedience with the Lord, but, um,
The the idea that I'm gonna lose my salvation. I,
(39:38):
I think, although there's some passages that that could, you know,
you could kind of think that, OK, I get it
seems like it's saying that. um I think in the, the, um,
The preponderance of evidence is for.
Your salvation being secure forever once you've received Jesus.
(40:05):
Phil Metzger
Yeah, I, I totally agree. I, I almost think, and,
and this isn't to um the person asking the question
that he said this, but I, I think it kind
of ties into this idea is like
We, we really get stuck and I mean, this has
been a long debated, you know, conversation on eternal security
and whatnot. And, but I think for the majority of us,
(40:28):
we need to think of this more in the context
of kind of what it really is, which is a
relationship with God. And, and I think like uh like I, I,
this year I'm in, in this year I've been married
30 years to my wife Joy, right? And I'm not,
I'm not asking the questions like, what can, how far
can I go?
To really make her not leave me.
(40:52):
Like I'm not, that's not how I, that's not my
train of thought.
My train of thought is, gosh, what can I do
to be a blessing, to be an encouragement, to be
a support? And so I think like relationship shouldn't, you know,
as Christians, we need to like these are theological issues
we want to understand eternal security, the sovereignty of God,
free will, these kinds of things, but
(41:14):
Again, for the majority of us that are just thinking
about what does this look like in my, in my
Christian walk. It looks like this. I, I do make
mistakes in my marriage, and my wife is gracious to
be forgiving. That's also true in your relationship with God.
The idea that you would like sin and then die,
and then go to hell because of that is
Not only it's not it's, it's difficult to make that
(41:36):
case biblically, but more than that, like that doesn't speak
to the, the, the overwhelming expression in the Bible that
God wants to be in relationship with you, that he
would in one moment, just cut that off because of
something you did or didn't do or said or didn't
say or whatever.
It's, it really, it just, it's like we're minimizing how,
(41:57):
how radical it is that God went to such great
lengths to be in relationship with us, to make it
possible for us to have eternal life. And that we're,
we're kind of assuming he's like, he went so extreme
to make salvation possible and is ready just at a,
at a, at a, at a moment's notice to cut
us off from that. And I, I think that it
(42:17):
really doesn't speak to the whole of scripture. So, I
totally agree with Brian. I
I really do believe in the fact that like, you know,
at first John, you know, 5, John writes that he,
that we would know that we have eternal life. So
we don't have to, it's it's one thing to have
feelings of doubt, but to know in your heart that
you belong to Jesus, that's something that God wants for us.
(42:38):
Daniel, thanks for your phone call today on Pastor's Perspective.
Now let's talk to Janice. Looks like she's got somewhat
of a follow-up question. We were talking about Mormonism earlier today.
Janice calling in from San Diego, listening on FM 107.9.
What's your question, Janice?
Hi, thank you for taking my call. So a relative
and myself were both from a Jewish family. Uh, I've
(43:01):
accepted Jesus a long time ago. I'm baptized, and I've
been teaching my relatives about Jesus. And one day he
accepted Jesus and repented his sins. And, um, later on
in his life, he got sucked into the Mormon Church,
and he still believes in Jesus, but, um,
I mean, is he still saved because he's going to
(43:24):
a Mormon church and really doesn't know what he's doing?
Will Jesus still save him? Hm. What do you say, Brian?
Well, there's a lot.
It's a lot of factors there. Um, number one, you know,
is there a genuine salvation that occurred?
Um, is there an ongoing?
(43:48):
Relationship with Jesus, say, like through through the scriptures, does he,
does he read the word? Does hero in his understanding
of of who Christ is? Is he becoming more faithful
as a disciple as time goes on? All, all of
those things would mark or indicate like, yeah, you know,
there's genuine faith here. Um, the thing about the Mormon
(44:11):
thing though, I, I do think
You could be somebody who goes into Mormonism.
Not even knowing that they believe something different than what
you are thinking about Jesus because they don't really tell
you that up front, uh, they want you to just
(44:31):
feel like, hey, we're all Christians and this is what
we do and so, you know, there's lots of community
there and there's things that people can they they can
sort of get pulled in.
I've talked to so many Mormons that don't even, they don't,
and they were raised in Mormonism, they don't even know
what they believe. When I tell them stuff that their
church teaches, they said, our church does not teach that. No,
we don't, we don't believe that. Well, actually you do,
(44:54):
but they don't even know it. So I would say that, uh,
you know, um, I, I mean, I could be wrong,
and maybe they sat down with your relative and gave
them all the reasons why, you know, the Jesus of
the Bible isn't.
The right one, that he needed to follow the Jesus
of Mormonism and if in that case, that that's a,
that's a big problem, but if it's the other situation
(45:16):
where he's just
You know, lots of people join get into uh Mormonism
through the relational part of it, through the community aspect
of it, so.
Janice, what do you think?
Yeah, that's really true. He did get into it because
he was praising the community and everything, and yeah, like.
Have you, have you had any conversations with him about it? Like,
(45:39):
has he? Yes, and, and what is this, like, has
he embraced Mormon doctrine? Because, you know, Mormon doctrine, uh,
it denies the, the person, the biblical person of Jesus,
the Messiah, Mormon doctrine would reject that, you know, they would,
they would say that Jesus is, um,
You know, he's a created being, kind of like Jehovah's Witnesses.
(45:59):
He's not, he's not the, the one true God, uh,
he's not the second person of the Trinity. Uh, Mormons
don't even believe in the Trinity. So, have you had
conversations with him, like, has he embraced Mormon theology?
Well, he said it's actually a branch of the Mormon Church.
It's not full Mormon, but it's a branch. They gave
(46:21):
him the Book of Mormon. I said, don't read the
Book of Mormon. Um, he's not expressed. I'm trying to
teach him. He's not expressing, um, anything different that he
knows about Jesus, so I don't, I'm not sure if
they actually taught him something else. Um, I, you know,
it's just that I thought maybe with Jesus would just
(46:42):
know his heart.
And that he loves Jesus. Yeah, and maybe, maybe so,
and but like I said, I, I think the fact
that he's, it, it sounds more like he's just been
emotionally drawn in relationally drawn into this community.
Um, so keep teaching him the right stuff about Jesus.
(47:03):
And then, you know, if questions come up, you know,
maybe he'll say, hey, well, wait, I, I over here,
I heard they, they said this, and then you can
respond to that. Janice, thanks for calling us today. Now
we'll go to New Jersey. Here is Sam, who's watching
us on YouTube. Hey, Sam, how can we help you?
Hi guys, Lord bless you. Thanks. Thank you. So, uh, yeah, um,
(47:25):
so yeah, I just, I was hearing the other caller.
About how, um, you know, love God thing, and then
Brian said to keep yourself in love God. I'm like, well,
how do you do that? And I think it's obedience,
but I, it probably is more to it than that, so.
Could you shed some light on it?
(47:48):
Yeah, you know that like I said, that passages comes
from Jude and in the context there, uh, Jude talks about,
he talks about the angels who did not keep themselves
in that place of blessing, but they, they left their
first estate. Then he talks about um the ancient Israelites
(48:13):
who did a similar thing.
And then he talks about individuals there. I think he
talks about Cora, um, who was a person in the,
during the, the, the life of Moses in the wilderness, uh,
and then he I think he mentions Balaam there as well.
And so, you know, so those those are like examples
(48:36):
of uh people who.
They were in a relationship with God. They were in
a place for blessing from God, but they went off
in disobedience and off into sin, and they took themselves out.
So I think that that's, you know, the idea is
just stay connected. I think it's Jesus, um.
(48:59):
Aideed me and I and you, you know, I think
that's really what we're talking about here.
Phil, yeah, that, that was exactly where I wanted to go, Brian,
and then you did it right there at the last
second you went there, yes.
Yeah, I was thinking of that same verse where, you know, like,
and and maybe just to say to Sam here too like.
(49:20):
Staying in the love of God, it doesn't mean to
earn the love of God, right.
It means to abide, as Brian just shared. It's like
you're already in the love of God. God loves you,
and when you put your faith in Christ, you're actually
positioning yourself in the stream of God's love. And so
then what are we supposed to do? Stay there. We're
(49:41):
supposed to stay in the love of God. What's the
best way to do that? Oi.
But it's not obedience that again is like, it doesn't
earn you God's love. It, it just shows the evidence
that you are in God's love. And so obedience really
is a great way, but it's, it's not, it's not
the kind of obedience where you feel like, man, I
(50:02):
messed up. I don't think I've got God's love anymore.
It's
Yeah, I mean, cause I, and I think we often
forget this. I've been really stuck on this idea. Probably
the greatest expression of obedience every Christian will be a
part of in their lifetime is repentance.
That's the ultimate obedience. I messed up, and what does
God ask of me? to acknowledge it and to turn
(50:23):
away from that thing. Whatever that is. That is the
ultimate expression of obedience. So when we're like, oh, I
messed up. Oh no. Well, great. Now show the other
form of obedience. You messed up in one way. Here's
your opportunity. What's the best way we could show obedience? Lord,
I'm so sorry for that. Forgive me, and I want
to move forward. So we have so many opportunities to
(50:44):
show obedience to God.
Sam, thanks for calling in. Now we'll talk to Sal.
From Sam to Sal in Harupa Valley, listening on the
Kwave app. Hey Sal, thanks for calling in today.
Wow, it's like talking to celebrities. I'm a longtime listener,
first time caller. What took you so long to call in, Sal?
(51:05):
I hate the sound of my voice, dude. I'm like, are, are,
are you kidding me? Yeah, yeah, so that's what I've
been listening to you since the pastor checked me. So, well,
you sound, you sound pretty good on air, so, so
you know, have, you have to call more often now.
Yeah, I'll try I'll try I'll try.
(51:26):
But um, yeah, I left the, the screener my, the
name of the, the person I was, I was uh
talking about this, this, uh, apostle. She calls herself an apostle. Um,
there's a, a lady at my church that like promotes
her and, and sends out links to her videos, but
some of the stuff I watch her do is like,
I don't, I don't think it's on the up and up.
(51:46):
She has people bowing down to her and, and then the,
the leader that installed her actually they're right there bowing
down to him and it's, it's, it's a whole weird thing.
And also on some of the videos it shows the
same person being killed over and over. So they're because
she's a failed actress, I guess. So they're thinking that
she's carrying these other actors with her and she's putting
on these big, big, uh, events and she's also, uh,
(52:07):
based out of LA, so I was just wondering if
you guys know anything about her or if I'm on
the right. Well, I think your, your discernment is, is
really um spot on here, you know, this is just
This is hype and emotionalism, and it's not, it's not
(52:29):
the the Lord, it's not anything the spirit of God
is doing. We're looking at some videos right now and,
you know, this, this is, this, she's one of many
who have uh done these types of things where, you know,
they're supposedly casting out demons or they're healing or uh
you know, they're they're claiming some power.
And it's, it's more than anything, it's a big emotional experience.
(52:54):
And so I, I would, I mean, if I wouldn't
be going to a church that's promoting her at all.
Phil Mutz? No, I just agree. I'm watching the same
things that are on the screen that you're that you're
showing us in.
Yeah, it's super discouraging and that stuff is just really
(53:15):
bums me out because it's such a um we're all,
you know, humanity, we're like craving feeling, we're craving like
We're craving the divine, and then when we when we like,
and God's here and God's present, but then when we
do that, we just give people such the wrong impression
and I think it's taking more people away from God
than it is ever bringing people to God. It's really sad.
(53:38):
All right, Sal, thank you for calling us today here
on Pastor's Perspective. Another reminder that this Saturday we're going
to be Kwave is going to be at the SoCal
Harvest Crusade at Angel Stadium in Anaheim. And if you're
unable to go, though we do encourage you to go
and take your unsaved friends with you, we're gonna be
live streaming it on the Kwave Facebook page, Kwave Facebook,
(53:59):
not the pastor's perspective Facebook, the K-wave.
KFWB, oh wait, no, that's, it's K, never mind, it's
Kwave K K waves Facebook page, and, uh, you can
register to get reminders. We're gonna start at about 6
o'clock and then we're gonna show the whole crusade there
on our stream so you can maybe have a little
watch party there in your home and invite people to, um,
(54:22):
to watch with you there. Now, uh, we did receive
a prayer request here.
Uh, Brian, if you wouldn't mind praying, I'm trying to
find it here, but we got a call from a.
Woman who said, Can you please pray for Pastor Otto?
He is being deported to Guatemala today. She wants him,
his wife wants him to remain safe. She hasn't heard
(54:43):
from him since 3 o'clock this morning. Oh my, yeah, yeah, Lord,
we do pray for Pastor Otto and Lord, you're with him,
and may he just trust you at this time. And,
and Lord, you know all things, you know all the
details and
And you've allowed this and so may they just see
(55:05):
through the confusion, the hands of the Lord in all this, and,
and may you use it for Otto's good and for
your glory and for his family's good in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen.
Novella, sorry that we couldn't speak with you today. Please
call us back tomorrow as well as everybody else who
(55:26):
couldn't get on. We will be on from 3 to 4,
but that's all the time we have today. Thank you
so much for listening and watching. If you want to
share today's program with your friends, it'll be archived on Facebook, YouTube,
Apple Podcasts, and Spotify, and we look forward to talking
to you next time for Brian Broderson and Phil Metzger,
I'm Brian Perez. Thank you for listening to and watching
(55:47):
Pastor's Perspective.
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