July 21, 2025 • 56 mins
Pastors' Perspective is a one-hour call-in program where listeners can call in and get answers to questions about the Bible, Christianity, family, and life. The program is live Monday through Friday from 3:00 PM - 4:00 PM Pacific. You can call 888-564-6173 to ask your questions.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:14):
Hello and welcome to another episode of Pastor's Perspective. The
number to call is 888-564-6173. My name is Michael David.
I'm in for Brian Perez. I'm joined by Brian Broderson,
the pastor of Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa. You hear him
on the radio program called Back to Basics, and his
website is back to Basics.
Radio.com. We also have Richard Cimino here. He is one
(00:38):
of the assistant pastors at Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa. Welcome
to the program, gentlemen. Great to be here. Well, it's
great to be here. Thank you, Michael. And just a little,
little clarification because I don't know that we've been together
since I've become pastor emeritus, um, but it's OK, you know,
those mistakes will be made, but we are.
(00:59):
Very forgiving and gracious here. I thought it was an
old age check for me. I'm going, is he? That's
what happens when I read the old script. Yeah, I
gotta update that script. Yeah, sorry about that. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,
but you've so for so long, Brian, yes, yes, yes, yes, um,
I'll say pastor emeritus for the first time, yeah, you
can just say a pastor at because I'm still.
(01:23):
I'm still hanging around doing some pastor stuff. Sunday night 6:30.
Sunday night 6:30. Yes, in the fellowship hall in the hall, yeah,
this Sunday night we're actually gonna move over to the
sanctuary because we do have some construction going on in
the fellowship hall, so.
Yep, we'll be there going through the Book of Acts.
All right, and people can also join you online at
(01:45):
uh back to Basradio.com/live, I believe, if not. I, yeah,
I think maybe though the feed is at um CCCM.com live. OK, yeah,
I stand corrected. I think it is. I mean we
both could be wrong or we both could be right. Well,
try both, everybody, and then let us know which one works.
(02:07):
Maybe both work. I don't know, uh, but the.
It's 888-564-6173. If you'd like to talk to Pastor Brian
or Pastor Richard about anything going on in the world
right now, anything going on with the, the Bible, the
Christian faith, or how to live the Christian life, give
us a call at 888-564-6173, as we traditionally do. We're
gonna start with those Facebook questions that you can send
(02:29):
to us at facebook.com/pastorsperspective, but we do prefer to hear
the sound of your voice, so call us at 888-564-6173.
The first Facebook question comes from Lisa, uh, she's from Tulsa,
Ok Oklahoma, and she writes, a family member has trouble
with the passage where Jesus states that only that the
(02:50):
only reason for divorce is infidelity. Jesus continues to say
that a wife who remains, uh, Jesus continues to say
that a wife who remarries is committing adultery.
This family member of mine has a real problem with
what Jesus says when there are other reasons for divorce.
In other words, abuse. Uh, please explain why Jesus says this,
(03:12):
and uh what is your position on the subject, and
we'll start with Brian.
Uh, yeah, well, we had a similar question, uh, a
few days ago, and we, first of all, we have
to remember the context that Jesus is speaking in. So
the passage there in Matthew, um, Jesus is kind of
(03:33):
setting the record straight for the people who have been
um influenced by the teachers of the law at that time.
And so the teachers of the law, uh, they, they
kind of had their own interpretation of scripture and
Uh, as a matter of fact, there were two leading, um,
rabbinical teachers at at the time of Jesus that people
(03:56):
would look to when it came to kind of like
the subject of divorce, for example. And there was one,
rabbinical leader named Shamai, and he had a a pretty
rigid requirement for divorce, uh, and then there was a
a very liberal in a, in a sense, in comparison,
his name was Halal.
(04:16):
And he was kind of more free when it came
to the issues. So with uh Shamai, it was like
unless there's adultery, there there's no basis for divorce. Hillel
was like, well, you know, if you find that you
just don't get along with your wife, then you can
(04:37):
put her away for that.
And so Jesus is speaking into that context, so we,
we have to understand that. We also have to understand
that that's not the only place in the Bible that
the subject is addressed. So Jesus addresses it there, and
he specifies uh adultery, sexual immorality, but later in the
(04:58):
New Testament, when we come to Paul's letter to the Corinthians,
for example, he talks about um
He's talking about a believer and an unbeliever being married,
and he says if the unbeliever departs or is or
is not uh content to live with the spouse, then
he says, then they can depart, uh, you know, they're
(05:18):
let let them go. uh a believer is not bound
under those circumstances. So this is my
Perspective on what I think the totality of what scripture teaches.
Adultery is a basis for divorce, uh, but I think
obviously abuse would be a basis for divorce as well, because,
you know, if you're if you're pleased to dwell together, well,
(05:41):
if you're physically abusing somebody or, you know, verbally abusing somebody,
that that doesn't really indicate that you're pleased to dwell.
And it's hard to understand how a person who is
actually a believer is gonna treat another person that way.
So I think
Adultery
Uh, abuse. And I think abandonment would also be another cause,
(06:05):
you know, if they depart, let them depart, so.
So what do you think, Rich? Yeah, I'm with you.
I am. And I also think, you know, there there
are just we we try to fit every every case
into a small window, and I just don't think you,
you can and and after, you know, I think you,
you can speak to this, you've been in in lead
(06:27):
pastor ministry before years before I was, but the number
of of cases that come across um your, your counseling there,
there's just some things that are like.
There's no resolution here and the one party can be going, I'm,
I'm willing to just, I'm gonna be faithful, uh, you know,
(06:49):
and I gotta find out what that's gonna look like
for me to live with you. There's no physical abuse, um,
there may be emotional abuse, maybe in a in a
in a in a most literal sense, but not in
a like what we would think of like browbeating or whatever.
It's just like.
Just repeatedly like finding that you are just, you just
diminished so completely by the way the other person treats you,
(07:12):
but they never laid a hand on you and they
never yelled at you. Yeah, and they've never been unfaithful. Yeah,
and so there's just some places where you just kind
of go, I think this comes into the police did
well with you. So yeah, it's hard. Yeah, yeah, it's,
it's a difficult thing and so uh like like Richard saying,
I think, you know, in pastoral ministry you you figure out.
Pretty early on that it's not a one size fits
(07:34):
all situation, you know. And then when it comes to
a person who's divorced, uh, if they remarried, they they
commit adultery, well, again, you have to think, OK, well,
is he speaking about the person who who caused the divorce,
or is he speaking about the person who is the
victim of the divorce? Well, certainly it's not speaking about
the victim, they didn't have any control over that, so
(07:56):
it's not, it's just not.
Uh, a blanket statement that no matter what the circumstances were,
if you're divorced, you can never be remarried.
And then there's also, I think the reality of um
people can repent without having to go back and try
to undo what they did. So, and and I think
(08:19):
God knows the heart when it comes to repentance, and
that that becomes a matter between the person and the Lord. So.
Absolutely. I'm glad you said that because, uh, an elderly
lady I went to church with for many years ago,
her name is Shirley, she's in heaven now, so I
can talk about her because she's not around to defend herself,
but she had two kids with her first husband and
then she got divorced and got remarried and her parents
(08:40):
did not believe in divorce and remarriage, so they saw
her as being living in.
with the second husband. So, uh, that's, uh, is the
way some people see it. And in some cases I
think that could be, but again, it comes back to
the heart. OK. Have, have you repented and what I
mean by repentance is you, you really have owned your sin,
(09:01):
you know, you've really said, yeah, I, you know, that
was wrong. It's David is such a great example because
you know, some people wonder like, gosh, you know, the
difference between David and Saul, um.
It, it doesn't seem like there's that much difference between
the two. Both committed horrific sins, um, but the difference
(09:22):
is one owned their sin and the other did not. Yeah.
So Saul is called on his sin and he makes
excuses for it.
Oh, it was those people there it wasn't really my fault.
David's called on for his sin, and he says, I
have sinned, you know, I'm not, I'm not passing the
buck to anybody. It's, it's me, and he takes responsibility.
(09:42):
So that's, that's real repentant. It took him a while
to get there, yeah, it took him a while like
the hand of the Lord was heavy on me day
and night, right? And, and, but when, when it was
clear when he's, when he was convicted, that was it.
He repented, you know, hence this Psalm 51, right? Like, so,
and I, I know, you know, we want it's just.
(10:04):
I, I won't speak for everybody. There's something in this
that's it in me, it's just easy for me to
be self-righteous. And so you see people that are in
a couple comes in and then over time you you discover, oh,
they're divorced and remarried, but they didn't really have any
biblical basis for divorce and and and one time I
asked my a friend of mine, I said, so what
do you do with them? And he says, well, it's
(10:26):
not the unpardonable sin.
And you just they're in your church. Church is is
a bunch it's it's it's triage, it's, it's the ER
it's the ICU it's all these things, yeah, they need
to be fixed, but do you say no, you can't
come in the church? You know, you come in here
where where broken people get a chance to be made
whole and that's not a condoning of their lifestyle. It's
(10:49):
meeting them where they are and again the the Ray
Ortlin stuff about gospel, um, plus uh safety plus time
and he says.
You know, um, the, the time element is owing to
the fact that people are complex and change is hard,
you know, and some people might come into church and
they might be exactly in that situation and they're in
there and they're they're there and they're there and there's
(11:10):
gonna come a Sunday when just it's like ding, it's
like the the gospel's gonna smack them.
You know, right over the head and they're gonna go, oh,
we didn't do this very well. Now what do we do? Well,
you don't go get divorced because you got married when
you when you you shouldn't have gotten remarried, you repent
and you move forward in grace, yeah.
(11:31):
All right, good answers, good answers. Thank you so much,
Lisa from Tulsa, Oklahoma, contacting us on Facebook, uh, messenger
with your question. Again, 888-564-6173 is the number to call
to talk to Pastor Brian or Pastor Richard. Uh, we're
gonna go, uh, Leon on Instagram. Uh, he wrote to
us and said, uh, why do some Christians call following
(11:53):
Jesus a Christian religion instead of a Christian faith? Is
this a Catholic view?
Some someone used James 1:26 to try to prove their point,
and I do not want to argue with them because
they follow Christ. And as, please help, and, uh, James
1:26 says, if anyone among you thinks he is religious
and does not bridle his tongue, but deceives his own heart,
(12:17):
this one's religion is useless. What would you say, Brian?
Well, I guess it's kind of hinging around the word
religion as distinct from.
The word faith, is that what he said? Why would
you call it religion Christian religion versus Christian faith. You
belong to the Christian religion or do you belong to
the Christian faith? Yeah, I mean, you know, religion is
(12:39):
a word that the, the original.
Use of the word just revolved around, you know, people
that gathered around something, you know, kind of like the
same thing.
And so
We, we've almost taken the word religion and kind of
made it, given, given a bit of a new definition
(13:00):
to it, you know. So sometimes we say this as Christians,
we say, uh, hey, you know, I'm a Christian, I'm
not into religion, I'm into a relationship.
OK, so we've put a, we've kind of put a
definition on religion there that doesn't really, it it doesn't,
it's not really the definition, but we're using the word
to describe something uh that is in contrast to a relationship.
(13:23):
So the idea is a relationship is you have a relationship, you're, you're,
you know, you're in this relational thing with God.
Religion, you're into ritual, you're into rules, you're into keeping
ordinances and things like that, and the the personal side
of it doesn't exist. So this is a
(13:46):
This is a definition that we have created and applied
to a word. It doesn't, I'm not, it's not religion,
it's relationship that that euphemism, you know, like I'm just
thinking like, you know, here's a guy inspired by the
Holy Spirit in James 1:27, religion that is pure and
undefiled before God the Father, right? Like religion is approaching God.
(14:09):
So it's, it's, it's now you can, you can go
through the motions of being religious.
And but have not have faith. And I think that's
kind of where that that little saying came from, like,
you know, like I, we both grew up Catholic. So
we were religious in the sense that we went to church,
we did these certain things, but, but God was not
anywhere in it, you know, and I didn't think myself,
(14:33):
I didn't think of it like when I got saved,
I had I had never been in apost of church,
so I went back to the Catholic Church after I'd
given my life to Jesus.
And suddenly I just sound like, uh, you know, body
of Christ, broken for you.
Like it's just like, it almost took my breath away.
It was so profound, or the Lamb of God who
(14:54):
takes away the sins of the world. It was like
all these years, I was going through these motions, and
yet here what are they? I heard these words every
week and didn't know that this is the Jesus who
they're talking about the Jesus who loved me and died
for me. It's so pure religion. I, I, I, I
would like to be thought of like, yeah, he's a
religious guy, not like he just, he's thinking he's gonna
(15:16):
get to heaven by religious activity.
But rather he's his religion is to worship the true
and the living God, you know, there was, there was
plenty of pagan religions, you know, and competing religions, and
they spoke of it in those terms. And, and the
general population just thinks in those terms anyway. So, uh,
you know, people that don't know us, if they met us.
(15:37):
They would walk away saying, well, those, those guys are
religious religious guys, yeah, you know, exactly it's just a,
it's an identifying thing. So, but yes, it, it has
to be religion like James says, true and undefiled religion.
So you can have religion that's not true. You want
to have the true religion and that's the relational religion.
(15:58):
Good answers, great answers, uh, Brian and Richard, and thank you, Daniel,
for contacting us on Instagram. We'll take one more, uh,
Facebook question before we go to the phone calls at 888-564-6173.
This one comes from Sonya. She's in Stockton, California, and
she writes,
I'm hearing people, even some pastors, saying kids with autism
(16:22):
have a demonic spirit and need to be rebuked. Uh,
please tell us your thoughts. We'll start with Richard on that.
What do you think about that? Well, you know, nowadays
we talk about being on the autism spectrum, you know,
and for a lot of parents, you'd be saying.
That their kids are demon possessed. That's like to me
it's like my grandkids demon possessed, you know, if they're,
(16:46):
if they have some little thing like they have we
fall on they fall on the spectrum of autism like
I wouldn't think that at all for a moment, so.
And that what a cruel thing to say. Yeah, you know,
your kids, your kid's got a demon, yeah. Uh, no, we,
we would disagree with that 100%. All right, well, very good. Well,
(17:07):
thank you so much, Sonia from Stockton for your question
on Facebook. We are gonna go to uh our phone
calls at 888-564-6173. We'll start with Richard in Costa Mesa,
who's listening on the Kwave app. Richard, welcome to the program.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Hi, thank you. Uh, my question's about, uh, Leviticus, I
think it's chapter 14, and, um, it talks about the
sacrifice and the, and the priest is supposed to put
like some of the blood of the sacrifice in a
person's ear, and their right hand, and, uh, all kinds
of unusual things. I don't have a problem with that. It,
(17:45):
you know, it seems awkward or unusual.
I believe that every single thing in the Bible is
God-breed like Timothy says. So is there a significance to
these unusual practices?
Speaker 1 (18:00):
That's a good question, cause especially I was reading that
same sort of thing last night, Richard, just with the
blood going everywhere. I mean, blood on the big toe
and blood on this, and blood on that. It's like,
what in the world is going on here? So, um, uh, Richard,
we'll start with you. What do you say about that? Well,
I mean, we, we want to begin with how everything,
(18:22):
especially in the priesthood and the sacrificial systems was pointing
towards Jesus.
And in particular to the blood of Jesus. And so when, when,
you know, you think of why, why are we putting
this blood on the on on the lobe of the
right ear? Um, what, what about the right hand, and
what about the big toe? Well, it's like speaks to hearing.
Um, it speaks of your hand, what you do, your
(18:46):
toe speaks about how you walk, and how the blood
of Jesus, we want to be constantly like understanding like
my whole life, um, what I hear, what I do,
how I live, um, is covered in the blood of Jesus.
That would be my take on it. All right, all right, Brian.
Yeah, absolutely, and I think here in the particular passage,
you find this in a few other places, you know, the,
(19:09):
the priest when they were being prepared for their ministry,
that was part of the ritual that they would put
the blood on the ear and the and the the
thumb and the toe, which just like you said, Richard,
it was signifying their like total sanctification of service, yeah,
they're hearing, their, their, you know, whatever their hands touch,
(19:30):
wherever their feet take them.
Um, but in this particular case, in the 14th chapter
of Leviticus, we're looking at the cleansing of the leper.
So when a leper is cleansed there to go through
this process as well. And it's the same idea. It's like,
it's just the totality of the person in the ear,
the the the thumb and the toe, it's describing the
(19:53):
whole person sanctified and cleansed. Absolutely. Well, great answers. Richard,
did that answer your question?
Yes, it did. Thank you so much. All right, thank
you so much, Richard, for calling us at 888-564-6173. We're
gonna go from Costa Mesa to San Marcos and talk
to Phil. Phil, welcome to the program.
(20:14):
Hey, how you guys doing? I gotta turn off my
radio now. Um, that's a good idea.
OK, hey, uh, and this is a call out to Richard.
I helped out with the, uh, high school ministry years
and years ago, and, uh, it's just great to hear
your voice and your wisdom and I dig it. Oh,
that's great.
How you doing?
(20:36):
Man, I'm doing great. God is good, you know, so, but, uh,
did they, uh, tell you about my question, or do
I just lay it on you? Lay it on us.
OK, um, I was wondering back in, uh, the time
when they had the tabernacle, it never mentions that.
(20:57):
Moses went into the holy of holies. Did he go
in because he wasn't necessarily the high priest like Aaron was,
but he was Aaron's brother. Did he ever officiate in
that sort of
Um, officiation or whatever you'd say.
(21:17):
That's a good question, um, Phil, cause we know, uh,
Aaron was a priest and he would go into the
holy of holies, but I don't recall Moses ever doing it.
Did Moses ever go into the holy of holies? Uh, no, no, no.
As a matter of fact, I just today, uh, I'm
two chapters away from finishing the, the, the pannatuque. I mean, I,
(21:40):
I had to stop reading this morning because we had
to go do something, so I, I finished up in
Deuteronomy 33.
And so, no, in all of, uh, you know, as
you as you read through whatever it is, Exodus, Exodus
is where the the tabernacle is is um built and
erected and where the priests are anointed, and the whole
system begins, uh, the record of that is in the
(22:02):
book of Exodus for us, and then it, um, Leviticus
gives kind of more detail about, you know, the sacrifices
and the various laws and things, and the numbers kind
of picks back up with.
Um, some of that, but then more of the, the narrative,
the historical narrative, and then Deuteronomy is kind of a, a,
(22:23):
a reminder. It's the second law, so it's Moses reminding
a new generation of people about the law before he, uh,
goes to be with the Lord, and Joshua takes over
to lead him into the promised land.
All that to say, there's no place where Moses, although
Moses does intercede for the people, um, frequently, he falls
(22:47):
on his face before the Lord. Moses has a relationship
with God, a face to face relationship that Aaron doesn't
even have, but as far as going into the holy
of holies, um, there isn't any place where that's described
for anyone but the high priest.
So later on in the history, one of the kings
of Judah, he decides that, you know, he can probably
(23:11):
go in there, it's, you know, he's a righteous guy,
he's a king, he's a he's a he's a good, um,
you know, uh.
Believer in Yahweh, and he, he ventures in and he's
he's struck by leprosy, and um, you know, so God
makes it clear that only the high priest is to
(23:32):
go in and only once a year.
All right, fantastic, fantastic. Phil, did that answer your question?
And yeah, I did, and I got one more question. I, uh,
it's in my reading, I, I was going to Psalm 51,
and you know, where it talks about David being a
man after God's own heart. I always thought that.
(23:55):
We are men, and we are after God's own heart,
and God's heart is our desire to come to God
through Jesus and confess our sin.
So, would, would that be a correct interpretation of being
a man after God's own heart like David where he,
he owned up to what he did and he was
(24:17):
approaching God in humility by confessing his sin. Uh, Richard,
what would you say?
Yeah, I think to desire God is kind of at
the heart of it, um, and, and you can see
the the the the stark contrast between David and Saul.
Saul always seemed to have his own agenda. David had
(24:37):
God's agenda, but David, even having God's agenda, as, as
Brian was saying earlier, um, he, it didn't mean that
he was that he didn't make massive mistakes in his life,
but when he did,
He owned them because he had a heart after God.
All right, well, very much, very good. Thank you so much, uh, Phil,
(24:59):
for your question from San Marcos, 888-564-6173 is the number
to call. We're gonna go from San Marcos to Soar
and talk to Tyler. Tyler, welcome to the program.
Hello. Hello. Yes. Um.
So my question is, I'm curious to know if you
(25:21):
got you gentlemen had a moment where you uh decided
or the Lord had said now is the time to
just full on go into ministry and um.
And just leave whatever secular job you guys may have had.
That's a good question. Why don't we hear from both
the pastors on that one? Well, we'll start with Brian.
(25:43):
Uh yeah, absolutely. I, um, there, there was a point
in my life, in my early 20s, I, I had
been working, you know, just like you do, you get
a job when you're, you know, 15 or 16 years old,
and then you work and that that's what life's about.
So I had been doing that for a number of
years and it wasn't until I was, I think I
(26:05):
was maybe 23 years old when I finally, you know,
had the opportunity to.
Move into pastoral ministry in a kind of like an
internship where it was a training position, but I was,
I was paid for it, which was great, so I
no longer was working in the different um types of
jobs that I had been doing prior to that. So
(26:27):
prior to that I was uh I was doing construction,
and I was, I did everything from concrete work to
I was also a plumber, um, and uh apprentice plumber
working toward being a journeyman.
And I also kind of grew up in the the
sort of surf world here in Southern California, so I
(26:48):
managed um some surf shops and things like that, but
uh yeah, one day the Lord just um through my father-in-law,
Chuck Smith, uh gave actually gave me a call. I
was working at a surf shop at the time and said,
uh I want, I want you to come and see me.
And I, OK, I didn't know if I was in trouble,
(27:11):
you know, oh, what did I do?
And anyway, when I got with him, he said, uh, hey,
I want you to come and, um, want you to
join us on the, on the staff here at Calvary
Chapel Costa Mesa. And I said, well, uh, I
I don't know what like what would I do? I don't,
I don't know how to do any of this stuff.
(27:32):
And he said, well, that's the point, you know, you,
you've obviously shown and expressed a desire to serve the Lord,
and this is an opportunity for you to get some training.
And let's just see how it goes. And I said, well,
let me pray about it and I did and and
uh the rest is history. And I know you.
I, I was part of your journey with that, yeah, yeah,
(27:56):
that was a great, yeah, that's a great story. Yes,
we gotta hear your story. I think we only got
a minute. Oh well, so let's get the first half
of it, first half of it. Yes, I wanted to
be in ministry. I felt called to be in the ministry.
And I just longed to be in Pastor. I met Brian.
I was working at the chapel store and he'd come
in and he'd be buying books for his library, and
(28:16):
I would think like that's what I wanna do. I,
I don't wanna be selling books to guys that are
in the ministry. I wanna be in the ministry and
get the books and studying the Bible and um it
didn't it just didn't go so quickly, but I was
doing ministry before then.
But just not in that and then now I can
honestly say looking back I think I had a very
(28:37):
bad distinction between what we call secular and what we
call ministry. I wish I would have appreciated in all
of my frustrations that really I was in the ministry
working in a warehouse that I was in the ministry
and um what in whatever it was when I was
in the chapel store, it was like that.
That's where I got to be a living sacrifice to
(28:58):
the Lord, but that doesn't mean that you, you know,
reality is if you feel called to be a pastor, um, it,
it's a, it's you're gonna end up doing full time
stuff that is very different than what you were doing
when you were in, and you were, you were uh
teaching and coaching that one season. I was, I was
a football coach and a high school teacher, yeah, yeah,
(29:19):
and the Lord said, OK, that season's over now, yeah.
So let's come back after the break and talk to Tyler,
see if that's helpful. OK, Tyler, stay on the line
and we're gonna finish up your question there. If anybody
else wants to talk to the pastors, 888-564-6173. We have
a few lines open, so if you want to talk
to the pastors.
Call now 888-564-6173. Pastor Brian Broderson, Pastor Richard Cimino is here.
(29:46):
I'm Michael David in for Brian Perez, and you can
talk to us when you call 888-564-6173. We'll see you
in about two minutes.
(30:16):
Hello and welcome back to the second half of Pastor's Perspective.
I'm Michael David in for Brian Perez. I'm joined by
Pastor Brian Brudeson and Pastor Richard Cimino, and before we
went to the break, we were talking to Tyler in Silmar, who, uh,
he mentioned his question was, I'm in ministry.
And I'm wondering if either of you have had a
moment where you went from secular work into full-time ministry.
(30:37):
And uh before we went to the break, we were
talking to Richard and uh hearing his whole story and
how it connects with Brian. So let's go ahead and
continue on with that.
Yeah, that was kind of a very compressed velocity compressed thing.
Um, and when I got saved, um, I was coaching
high school football on my way to get a secondary
(30:58):
teaching credential. I eventually got the secondary teaching credential, was
coaching high school football, um, and, um, and loving it
because I thought God made me to do it and
I know he did make me to do it, but
there came a point when I just felt this call
of God to teach the Bible and listening to Pastor
Chuck teach. I just felt like.
(31:20):
He the way he taught us made it so touchable,
and I thought like I would love to do that.
And that desire grew and grew and grew and um
and I was involved in music ministry kind of around
that time as well I was going to the musicians
fellowship and I was starting to get opportunities. Brian, you
gave me an opportunity to teach a few little small
Friday night Bible studies with to some guys, and I
(31:42):
was given an opportunity to teach um at the Musicians
fellowship a few times and and that just deepened the
desire for me.
But it was like years were going by and I
was not having any uh there was no open door
for me to do it, and there were times when
I'd be really frustrated like, God, what are you doing?
You've given me this desire and I, why am I
not you give me this desire, but I have no opportunity.
(32:04):
How's this, how's this go hand in hand.
And um
Unbeknownst to me, I
Every, every Friday I'd, I'd be driving at the time
I was like working at the Minotha Music warehouse and
I'd be taking mail in the afternoon to the post
office and I'd drive through the parking lot at church
and there would be times Brian would walk out in
(32:25):
the parking lot. I'd be in the van and he'd say,
how you doing? Anything new? I said, nope, just dropping
the mail off again, and he kept asking me that question.
I go, what? OK, was there anything new? No, Brian's
the same news as yesterday. I'm I'm working at Mint
the Music warehouse.
And then on a Saturday morning I got a knock
on the door and it was a friend of mine,
he says, so are you enjoying your last Saturday off?
(32:48):
I'm going, what what are you talking about? He goes, Well,
Pastor Chuck just told me you're the new high school pastor.
Pastor Chuck had said nothing to him and, and then I'm,
I'm going like, and then I went and he says
you better go across the street and catch Chuck before
he leaves and I came in and, and Cheryl, Brian's
wife was in the office. She was just finishing up
with a uh a wedding, and I go, Is your
(33:10):
dad here? And she goes, no, he just left. And
I go, I just found out I'm the new high
school pastor. She started laughing. She goes, Brian and I
have known for months.
But Chuck said we couldn't say anything and then it
was then it was like, oh, all these dots connect
the smile, the question every day. So and I'm sure
Brian had just wanted to torture Richard for just dangle
(33:32):
me over the fire for a while.
Yeah, gosh, those are such great times. I can't believe
that that was, that was our lives a long, long
time ago, yeah, and I'm thankful that our lives were still,
we're hanging out in this room together. We're still together.
Now I know Buster Chuck had a tendency to surprise
(33:54):
people with Chuck was super unpredictable, you know, he really was.
I mean.
He's just like, whoa, I didn't see that coming and yeah,
you know, yeah, yeah, no, but, you know, we had
had some conversations, Chuck and I, for quite a while,
and I would just say, you know, Chuck, I think
Richard's the guy, you know, so yeah, so everybody has
(34:17):
their own unique way in. You're welcome. Everybody has their
unique way in, uh, Tyler, how was that for an answer?
Uh, it's fantastic. It's good to hear, um, the path
that y'all took, and obviously I'm in this crux of
a situation here and So what are you doing? what
are you doing now, Tyler? What's, what's like, what's what's
(34:40):
in front of you? So yeah, my, my background, I
studied landscape architecture. I've been working for a landscape um
design build company and
I just this month, uh, put my, my notice in,
so I'm going to be ending there at the end
of July with, with not really a clear, um, next step.
(35:01):
I'm
I'm going full on faith level here and uh trying
to live each day as peacefully as I can without
having to worry so much about where the money is
gonna be coming from. Yeah. So, are you thinking like
pastoral kind of ministry in the future? Are you serving
(35:22):
currently in your church? What's going on with that?
So yeah, our, our church is, uh, it's God is
Love Christian Church. It's, uh, we started in my pastor's
backyard during the pandemic. We're celebrate our 5th anniversary. Um,
my pastor has been, uh, grooming me for the ministry. I,
people in my congregation call me a pastor, but I'm
(35:43):
quick to say like, whoa, whoa, whoa, not quite there yet, um,
but
But I know that that the church is where I,
I find the most joy and um.
Yeah, so that's where that's where I'm at.
Well, you know what? You're right, you're in a good spot,
so just keep moving forward and uh faith faith is
(36:08):
the
That's the way forward, uh, you know, um.
I mean sometimes we'd like it to be a little clearer,
but the Lord seems to want to keep it a
little bit.
Murky at times, so we keep trusting and just take
it a step at a time, but we're sure that
there's some good stuff ahead.
(36:30):
Well, amen. Hallelujah. I love you guys. I love this station.
May the Lord continually bless you. Thanks Tyler the truth
into this world.
All right, Tyler, thank you so much for calling from Somar.
We're gonna go back to the calls in just a minute, uh,
888-564-6173 again 888-564-6173, but we did want to mention this
(36:54):
Saturday is the Harvest Crusade with Greg Laurie. That's gonna
be July 19th at Angel Stadium. It's uh.
Admission, uh, they've got a number of artists who are
gonna be there, including, uh, Cody Karnes, Kerri Job, Chris Tomlin,
Brooke Lizard Wood, and We The Kingdom, and it is
an outreach. We want people to bring somebody with them
(37:14):
who doesn't yet know the Lord, and, uh, you can
get all the details about it, even if you're not
in the area, you can watch it online when you
go to SoCal.harvest.org, and that's 70 p.m.
Pacific time and I think uh you have, I've seen
you pray at the Harvest Crusade, Ryan, and yeah, tell us, uh,
your story. You know, I've been involved with, um, you know,
(37:35):
to some degree or another over, you know, many, many, many, um,
years and years of the harvest Crusade, um, going all
the way back to the, to the first one that
was right down the road here at the Pacific Amphitheater.
Were you still here? Yeah, and then, yeah.
Yeah, and I, I wasn't here at the time, but
(37:56):
I was, I was down south, but um, yeah, yeah,
so the Harvest Crusade is, it's one of those, um, gosh,
what's it, it's become a um
What's the word I'm, I'm trying to think of, you know,
where it's just like a, it's like a fixture in
uh in our community and in our culture and, and
of course, God has used it extraordinarily to
(38:18):
To bring so many people to Jesus. I've met so
many people over the years that have come to faith,
you know, through either a crusade or just Greg's ministry,
you know, through maybe radio or, or, of course, Greg
did the Bible studies here at this many years, yeah.
So anyway, yeah, it's great, it's awesome, it's always wonderful
(38:40):
and um you know, as it says, it's a harvest crusade,
and there's a harvest that takes place. The the gospel
goes out and the
And the nets are pulled in and, you know, there's
a whole new, um, whole new group of of people
to be discipled. So yeah, we thank God for Greg
and and that ministry and.
(39:01):
Excited for the weekend. All right, well, wonderful. I'm looking
forward to being there as well, and again, you can
get all the details about the harvest Crusade when you
go to SoCal.harvest.org. All right, we're gonna go back to
the phone calls, and we are going to talk to
uh Pete in San Pedro. Pete, welcome to the program.
(39:24):
Oh yes, hi. Thanks for taking my call. You're welcome. Um,
my question is from Matthew 27 through 29, and it's
where Jesus is having, um, communion with his disciples, and
he took the cup and gave thanks and gave it
to them, saying, drink you all of it, for this
is my blood of the New Testament, which is shed
(39:46):
for many for the remission of sins, and this is
the main um question.
But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth
this fruit of the vine until that day when I
drink it new with you in my father's kingdom.
Now what did he mean by that?
(40:07):
Is there a significant meaning or is it just face
value or?
Well, I think remember this is that the Passover meal,
this is everything that um the Passover was prophetically pointing
to was now.
Being fulfilled
(40:27):
So, Luke tells us that Jesus says, as he sits
down for that meal, he says with deep longing, I
have desired to eat this Passover with you. So this
is the this is the culmination of the Passover. This
is the fulfillment of what was prophetically there. You know,
the Passover was a celebration of the deliverance from Egypt,
(40:50):
but it was also a prophecy about the greater deliverance
that would come through.
The Lamb of God who would take away the sin
of the world, and that's Jesus, and that's, you know,
the cup and his blood and all of that. So,
this is all being fulfilled at this moment, and now
Jesus says, I won't drink of this fruit of the
vine again until I drink it uh with you anew
(41:12):
in my father's kingdom. So, he's talking about, you know,
this is all the groundwork for the kingdom, and then
the kingdom will come, and the kingdom.
is pictured in another feast. So Passover was the uh
Feast of Unleavened bread, and Passover they went together. But
there's also what's called the Feast of Tabernacles, and the
(41:36):
Feast of Tabernacles is the final feast, and that's, I,
I think it's really a picture of the kingdom of
God when it comes in its fullness. And I think
that's what Jesus is pointing to there. Richard, you got
any thoughts? Yeah, no, I think he's linking the cross
with the kingdom in it because he's talking about his bloodshed,
but there's gonna be a coming kingdom.
And I think it it's, I, I think it's really
(41:57):
important for us that Jesus gave us these things to
remind us about, about who he is, what he has
done and what he has done is, is something now
but something yet future. And I think um.
The hope of there's gonna be a new heaven and
a new earth, and we'll be with him in it
(42:17):
and we'll be feasting with him in it. The feast
of Tabernacles, yes, yeah. All right, well, Pete from San Pedro,
thanks for calling us at 888-564-6173. We're gonna go from
San Pedro to Upland and talk to John. John, welcome
to the program.
Hello, thank you for having me. I really appreciate being here. Um,
(42:39):
so I'm trying to understand as I become closer to
my religion, Catholic religion, um, I'm trying to understand, when
will I start feeling my faith. That's, that's the, the
best way I can, I can explain it.
I've been learning more through reading about the importance of
the Eucharist and what it means, um, trying to understand
(43:04):
that in different ways than I've ever been shown. I'm
praying every day and every night. I am talking to
the Lord like he's my friend.
And uh I've talked to my priest several times already
to answer some questions. I'm in a dark season of
my life, and some people, when they profess their faith,
(43:27):
They feel it and I'm still looking out for.
Good things to happen to me, which I believe have
happened to me, but I'm, I'm, I'm wondering, am I
gonna feel it? When am I gonna feel it? What
am I not doing to feel that faith?
That's what I'm, I'm, I'm wondering. All right, great question, John. Richard,
(43:50):
what would you say?
Well, there's a, there's a couple of places in the
in the Bible that John that that they their their
exact quotes and
They both say the just shall live by faith. And
one way you can understand that word just as you could,
you could think of about well justification by faith is
(44:12):
surely 111 way that you could understand that to be.
We know that we're brought into a right relationship with
God by faith in Jesus, the Son of God.
So those who have come into a right relationship with
God by faith, then live by faith. Paul also said,
this life that I now live, I live by faith
(44:33):
in the Son of God who loved me and gave
himself for me.
So, when, when you receive the the the when you
receive the bread in the cup, it's reminding you of
who Jesus is. He's God's son, and what he did
for you. As as the Son of God, the Lamb
of God who takes away the sin of the world,
(44:54):
he gave himself as a sacrifice so that you could
be brought into a right relationship with God through faith.
That's the only way we can be saved, is through
faith in Jesus Christ.
We we believe with our heart on the Lord Jesus Christ,
and when we do, we're justified. We're brought into a
right relationship with God.
But that's not the end of the story, it's the
(45:15):
beginning of your story with God. And so, God's been
working in your life, and he's brought to this place
where like you're really believing the the theology, if you would,
but the the the most important thing is, is that
now you are going to live by faith in the
Son of God who loves you and gave himself for you.
(45:36):
That means to live by faith means I don't feel
like
I don't, I don't, uh, John, I'll tell you, I
don't wake up every morning and go, I feel like
I'm loved by God. I just don't.
Now, there are times when I am profoundly aware of
the love of God for me, but by and large, I,
I live by faith in the in the revelation of God,
(45:58):
in the person of Jesus Christ, that I am loved
by him, that I am his beloved child, that I am,
the Bible says that we're accepted in Christ because of
who Jesus is and what he's.
So, I'm now made accepted by the living God, the
creator of the heaven and and the the the universe
of all things. So now I live by faith. I'm
(46:20):
gonna live as though that's true. I think that's a
great working definition of faith. It's living as though that's reality.
I am so loved by God that he gave his
son for me. Now when my life isn't going the
way I'd like it to be, I've got to actually take,
put 1 ft in front of the other and live
by faith.
Live as though that's how God really does think about me.
(46:43):
That's how much God really does love me, and that
and and the Bible says that he causes all things
to work together for good for those who are called
by God, right? And and we love him, and so
we're gonna walk by faith now and some and and,
you know, our feelings, they sometimes don't tell us the truth.
A lot of times they don't tell us the truth.
(47:04):
So, we live by faith, not by sight, is another
thing that we're told in the New Testament.
And we walk by faith. And so I really want
to encourage you, um, you're gonna, you're gonna walk by
faith every day, and at moments you're gonna have, you're
gonna feel the reality of what those things are, but
it's not always the case every day, right? I is
(47:26):
there anything you wanna yeah, I, the only thing I
wanna add is that John, I think that there's
More feeling in your experience than you might realize, cause,
cause we can sense it just listening to you, listening to,
you know, it's coming through in the stuff you're expressing.
(47:47):
It's obvious that God's doing something in your life and you're,
you know, you're feeling different than you used to feel, obviously, right?
And so, um, like, like Richard said,
Uh, and, and I, you know, I'm, I'm the same way. Um, I, I,
I wish we all wish that we had this incredible
sense of God's presence with us all the time, this
(48:08):
incredible sense that God loves us, um, but we don't,
because our, you know, our emotions.
vary and, you know, circumstances change, but the facts never change,
and the fact is God does love you and Jesus
did die for you, and you are a child of
God because you've received him, and there's gonna be moments
(48:31):
where you're so exhilarated and everything around you is just saying,
this is the reality, and there are other times when
you're like, OK, I, I, I don't have any of
that stuff right now, but
It's still true, and I stand on it. That's what,
that's what living by faith is. Amen. Amen. John, does
that help you?
(48:51):
That that's it. Thank you so much for helping me
because yeah, I, I, I am feeling it and I,
I know I'm changing, but uh. Yeah. But yeah, I
understand what you're saying, and yeah, I think it takes
more time because I'm just at the beginning of my journey. So. Yeah, well,
like Richard said, you know, there is that moment where you,
you know, you've given yourself to Jesus and, you know,
(49:12):
Jesus uses the language of born again.
Uh, unless you're born again, you can't enter the kingdom. So,
you know, when, when you're when when you were born,
you're born as a baby, you're a full human, you
can't get any more human than you are, uh, when
you're born, but you're a long way from the full
(49:32):
potential of who you are and growing in maturity. So
that that's kind of the the process that you're in.
You're in the, the infancy state in some ways, but
you're gonna, as you follow the Lord, as you continue
to read his word, as you seek Him, you're gonna
find that you're, you're growing into a mature follower of
(49:54):
Jesus and we're excited for you. That's awesome.
All right, well, John from Upland, thank you for calling
in Pastorspective. Thank you for listening and continue listening to
the great, uh, teaching and counsel you get from pastors
like Brian Bruderson and Richard Cimino and others here on, uh,
this flagship station Kwave. We appreciate you listening. Uh, 888-564-6173
(50:16):
is the number to call. We're gonna go stay in
Upland and go to Robert this time. Robert, what can
we do for you?
Well, I was just, um, we're doing a study in revelations,
and I was thinking, once, uh, we come into heaven,
are we still filled with the Holy Spirit, or, or
are we seeing him in person? Because I was thinking,
(50:39):
what was the presence of the Holy Spirit?
Before he came down as a comforter to the church.
And so that's my question. So before the, before he
was the comfort of the church, what was the Holy
Spirit to people on earth? Yeah, in, in the presence
in the church, uh, in the presence of heaven, in
(51:00):
the presence of heaven.
All right, uh, Brian, what would you say?
Well, uh, you know, that, that's um a bit of
a
Challenge to
Maybe answer that exactly, but, so we know that there's
one god who exists in three persons, right? The Father,
(51:20):
the Son, and the spirit, and that one god is
um
What you call.
Um, omnipresent, which means he's everywhere.
Always. And um so, you know, the spirit of God,
of course, we in the Book of Revelation, like you said,
you've been reading it, you see references in early chapters
(51:43):
to the seven spirits that are before His throne. So
that's a reference to the Holy Spirit. 7 is just
the the way of describing the fullness of the spirit.
And so, the spirit is present there, but then you
have the spirit, um, also, all throughout history, you have
the spirit.
At work in the world and and particularly for a
(52:04):
long season with the, the people of God, the ancient Israelites,
and he's working there, but he's also working in the
lives of other people to reveal who God is.
And
So when Jesus comes and dies and rises again and
ascends to heaven, he sends the Holy Spirit in a
(52:27):
fresh new way uh to indwell those who believe in him.
So we are indwelt by the Spirit, and then we're
also empowered by the spirit to do works of service. Um,
when we get to glory, are we filled with the
spirit there?
I, I think the best way to understand is like
(52:49):
Paul in writing to the Corinthians, he's, he says things
are ultimately headed toward God being all and all. So
there's coming a time when uh even the son will
submit himself to the Father and God will be all
in all. So just exactly
What that looks like, um, we don't know, but we
(53:12):
know that God will be all in all, and uh I, I,
I mean, being filled with the spirit, we're born of
the spirit, we're filled with the spirit, you know, that
is for the present, but I think in glory, it'll
it'll be different, but I don't know exactly how.
Yeah, I mean, we don't know the relationship of the
Holy Spirit to Adam and Eve before they fell, no,
(53:34):
you know, um.
But I do, I, I, when you were talking, Brian, I,
I just was thinking of John 14:17. He talks says
even the spirit of truth whom the world cannot receive,
but it, because it neither sees him nor knows him.
You know him, for he dwells with you and will
be in you.
(53:55):
And I'm sure they weren't aware that the spirit was
with them until Jesus said, no, the spirit's with you.
And so we understand like he's at work everywhere in
the world. He's alongside of people, his great passion and
desires to make Jesus known to men and women. So
that anybody who comes to faith in Jesus because the
spirit of God was present with them, leading them, directing them,
(54:18):
you know, convic convincing them of who Jesus is, convicting
them of their sin.
And so I, I just don't wanna, I, it's, it's
a question, I'll be honest, it's a question I never
asked myself like that. So what's our relationship to the
Holy Spirit gonna be like in heaven? Yeah.
Great question, great question. Well, I'll tell you what, real quickly,
I want to see if I can go from, uh, uh,
to John and Lake Elsinore. You wanted to say something
(54:40):
to our earlier guy Tyler. Um, are you there, John,
in Lake Elsinore? I am. Go quick, quick. Go ahead
and say it. Uh, Tyler, Tyler wanted to know when
to go from ministry to, um, from secular work to ministry.
What would you say?
Wow. I think that it has a lot to do
with God and it has a lot to do with
the Holy Spirit, his province. So I was working construction.
(55:03):
I was managing heavy equipment in 2023, um, for a
contractor driving back and forth from Palmdale. I was worn out.
And I told God, I said, I need a new job.
And the only thing I heard was ministry, and I said,
how am I gonna do ministry? I had an online
ordination so I could do weddings and funerals.
(55:23):
But I wasn't able to, you know, go work for
a church or anything like that where they required some
sort of a license and, uh, pursued it. And in
February of 2024, which is a couple of months later,
and I'm sitting in a men's group that I facilitate.
For the last 12 years and so I've had different
people in there. John, I'm gonna have to cut you off.
(55:45):
Call back tomorrow, OK? And we're gonna finish that. Um,
he's become a chaplain. He became a chaplain. There's the
beginning of the end of the end of the beginning
for Brian Broderson, Richard Zamino. I'm Michael David. Thank you
for joining us for pastor's perspective.
Hello and welcome to another episode of Pastor's Perspective. The
number to call is 888-564-6173. My name is Michael David.
I'm in for Brian Perez. I'm joined by Brian Broderson,
the pastor of Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa. You hear him
on the radio program called Back to Basics, and his
website is back to Basics.
Radio.com. We also have Richard Cimino here. He is one
(00:38):
of the assistant pastors at Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa. Welcome
to the program, gentlemen. Great to be here. Well, it's
great to be here. Thank you, Michael. And just a little,
little clarification because I don't know that we've been together
since I've become pastor emeritus, um, but it's OK, you know,
those mistakes will be made, but we are.
(00:59):
Very forgiving and gracious here. I thought it was an
old age check for me. I'm going, is he? That's
what happens when I read the old script. Yeah, I
gotta update that script. Yeah, sorry about that. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,
but you've so for so long, Brian, yes, yes, yes, yes, um,
I'll say pastor emeritus for the first time, yeah, you
can just say a pastor at because I'm still.
(01:23):
I'm still hanging around doing some pastor stuff. Sunday night 6:30.
Sunday night 6:30. Yes, in the fellowship hall in the hall, yeah,
this Sunday night we're actually gonna move over to the
sanctuary because we do have some construction going on in
the fellowship hall, so.
Yep, we'll be there going through the Book of Acts.
All right, and people can also join you online at
(01:45):
uh back to Basradio.com/live, I believe, if not. I, yeah,
I think maybe though the feed is at um CCCM.com live. OK, yeah,
I stand corrected. I think it is. I mean we
both could be wrong or we both could be right. Well,
try both, everybody, and then let us know which one works.
(02:07):
Maybe both work. I don't know, uh, but the.
It's 888-564-6173. If you'd like to talk to Pastor Brian
or Pastor Richard about anything going on in the world
right now, anything going on with the, the Bible, the
Christian faith, or how to live the Christian life, give
us a call at 888-564-6173, as we traditionally do. We're
gonna start with those Facebook questions that you can send
(02:29):
to us at facebook.com/pastorsperspective, but we do prefer to hear
the sound of your voice, so call us at 888-564-6173.
The first Facebook question comes from Lisa, uh, she's from Tulsa,
Ok Oklahoma, and she writes, a family member has trouble
with the passage where Jesus states that only that the
(02:50):
only reason for divorce is infidelity. Jesus continues to say
that a wife who remains, uh, Jesus continues to say
that a wife who remarries is committing adultery.
This family member of mine has a real problem with
what Jesus says when there are other reasons for divorce.
In other words, abuse. Uh, please explain why Jesus says this,
(03:12):
and uh what is your position on the subject, and
we'll start with Brian.
Uh, yeah, well, we had a similar question, uh, a
few days ago, and we, first of all, we have
to remember the context that Jesus is speaking in. So
the passage there in Matthew, um, Jesus is kind of
(03:33):
setting the record straight for the people who have been
um influenced by the teachers of the law at that time.
And so the teachers of the law, uh, they, they
kind of had their own interpretation of scripture and
Uh, as a matter of fact, there were two leading, um,
rabbinical teachers at at the time of Jesus that people
(03:56):
would look to when it came to kind of like
the subject of divorce, for example. And there was one,
rabbinical leader named Shamai, and he had a a pretty
rigid requirement for divorce, uh, and then there was a
a very liberal in a, in a sense, in comparison,
his name was Halal.
(04:16):
And he was kind of more free when it came
to the issues. So with uh Shamai, it was like
unless there's adultery, there there's no basis for divorce. Hillel
was like, well, you know, if you find that you
just don't get along with your wife, then you can
(04:37):
put her away for that.
And so Jesus is speaking into that context, so we,
we have to understand that. We also have to understand
that that's not the only place in the Bible that
the subject is addressed. So Jesus addresses it there, and
he specifies uh adultery, sexual immorality, but later in the
(04:58):
New Testament, when we come to Paul's letter to the Corinthians,
for example, he talks about um
He's talking about a believer and an unbeliever being married,
and he says if the unbeliever departs or is or
is not uh content to live with the spouse, then
he says, then they can depart, uh, you know, they're
(05:18):
let let them go. uh a believer is not bound
under those circumstances. So this is my
Perspective on what I think the totality of what scripture teaches.
Adultery is a basis for divorce, uh, but I think
obviously abuse would be a basis for divorce as well, because,
you know, if you're if you're pleased to dwell together, well,
(05:41):
if you're physically abusing somebody or, you know, verbally abusing somebody,
that that doesn't really indicate that you're pleased to dwell.
And it's hard to understand how a person who is
actually a believer is gonna treat another person that way.
So I think
Adultery
Uh, abuse. And I think abandonment would also be another cause,
(06:05):
you know, if they depart, let them depart, so.
So what do you think, Rich? Yeah, I'm with you.
I am. And I also think, you know, there there
are just we we try to fit every every case
into a small window, and I just don't think you,
you can and and after, you know, I think you,
you can speak to this, you've been in in lead
(06:27):
pastor ministry before years before I was, but the number
of of cases that come across um your, your counseling there,
there's just some things that are like.
There's no resolution here and the one party can be going, I'm,
I'm willing to just, I'm gonna be faithful, uh, you know,
(06:49):
and I gotta find out what that's gonna look like
for me to live with you. There's no physical abuse, um,
there may be emotional abuse, maybe in a in a
in a in a most literal sense, but not in
a like what we would think of like browbeating or whatever.
It's just like.
Just repeatedly like finding that you are just, you just
diminished so completely by the way the other person treats you,
(07:12):
but they never laid a hand on you and they
never yelled at you. Yeah, and they've never been unfaithful. Yeah,
and so there's just some places where you just kind
of go, I think this comes into the police did
well with you. So yeah, it's hard. Yeah, yeah, it's,
it's a difficult thing and so uh like like Richard saying,
I think, you know, in pastoral ministry you you figure out.
Pretty early on that it's not a one size fits
(07:34):
all situation, you know. And then when it comes to
a person who's divorced, uh, if they remarried, they they
commit adultery, well, again, you have to think, OK, well,
is he speaking about the person who who caused the divorce,
or is he speaking about the person who is the
victim of the divorce? Well, certainly it's not speaking about
the victim, they didn't have any control over that, so
(07:56):
it's not, it's just not.
Uh, a blanket statement that no matter what the circumstances were,
if you're divorced, you can never be remarried.
And then there's also, I think the reality of um
people can repent without having to go back and try
to undo what they did. So, and and I think
(08:19):
God knows the heart when it comes to repentance, and
that that becomes a matter between the person and the Lord. So.
Absolutely. I'm glad you said that because, uh, an elderly
lady I went to church with for many years ago,
her name is Shirley, she's in heaven now, so I
can talk about her because she's not around to defend herself,
but she had two kids with her first husband and
then she got divorced and got remarried and her parents
(08:40):
did not believe in divorce and remarriage, so they saw
her as being living in.
with the second husband. So, uh, that's, uh, is the
way some people see it. And in some cases I
think that could be, but again, it comes back to
the heart. OK. Have, have you repented and what I
mean by repentance is you, you really have owned your sin,
(09:01):
you know, you've really said, yeah, I, you know, that
was wrong. It's David is such a great example because
you know, some people wonder like, gosh, you know, the
difference between David and Saul, um.
It, it doesn't seem like there's that much difference between
the two. Both committed horrific sins, um, but the difference
(09:22):
is one owned their sin and the other did not. Yeah.
So Saul is called on his sin and he makes
excuses for it.
Oh, it was those people there it wasn't really my fault.
David's called on for his sin, and he says, I
have sinned, you know, I'm not, I'm not passing the
buck to anybody. It's, it's me, and he takes responsibility.
(09:42):
So that's, that's real repentant. It took him a while
to get there, yeah, it took him a while like
the hand of the Lord was heavy on me day
and night, right? And, and, but when, when it was
clear when he's, when he was convicted, that was it.
He repented, you know, hence this Psalm 51, right? Like, so,
and I, I know, you know, we want it's just.
(10:04):
I, I won't speak for everybody. There's something in this
that's it in me, it's just easy for me to
be self-righteous. And so you see people that are in
a couple comes in and then over time you you discover, oh,
they're divorced and remarried, but they didn't really have any
biblical basis for divorce and and and one time I
asked my a friend of mine, I said, so what
do you do with them? And he says, well, it's
(10:26):
not the unpardonable sin.
And you just they're in your church. Church is is
a bunch it's it's it's triage, it's, it's the ER
it's the ICU it's all these things, yeah, they need
to be fixed, but do you say no, you can't
come in the church? You know, you come in here
where where broken people get a chance to be made
whole and that's not a condoning of their lifestyle. It's
(10:49):
meeting them where they are and again the the Ray
Ortlin stuff about gospel, um, plus uh safety plus time
and he says.
You know, um, the, the time element is owing to
the fact that people are complex and change is hard,
you know, and some people might come into church and
they might be exactly in that situation and they're in
there and they're they're there and they're there and there's
(11:10):
gonna come a Sunday when just it's like ding, it's
like the the gospel's gonna smack them.
You know, right over the head and they're gonna go, oh,
we didn't do this very well. Now what do we do? Well,
you don't go get divorced because you got married when
you when you you shouldn't have gotten remarried, you repent
and you move forward in grace, yeah.
(11:31):
All right, good answers, good answers. Thank you so much,
Lisa from Tulsa, Oklahoma, contacting us on Facebook, uh, messenger
with your question. Again, 888-564-6173 is the number to call
to talk to Pastor Brian or Pastor Richard. Uh, we're
gonna go, uh, Leon on Instagram. Uh, he wrote to
us and said, uh, why do some Christians call following
(11:53):
Jesus a Christian religion instead of a Christian faith? Is
this a Catholic view?
Some someone used James 1:26 to try to prove their point,
and I do not want to argue with them because
they follow Christ. And as, please help, and, uh, James
1:26 says, if anyone among you thinks he is religious
and does not bridle his tongue, but deceives his own heart,
(12:17):
this one's religion is useless. What would you say, Brian?
Well, I guess it's kind of hinging around the word
religion as distinct from.
The word faith, is that what he said? Why would
you call it religion Christian religion versus Christian faith. You
belong to the Christian religion or do you belong to
the Christian faith? Yeah, I mean, you know, religion is
(12:39):
a word that the, the original.
Use of the word just revolved around, you know, people
that gathered around something, you know, kind of like the
same thing.
And so
We, we've almost taken the word religion and kind of
made it, given, given a bit of a new definition
(13:00):
to it, you know. So sometimes we say this as Christians,
we say, uh, hey, you know, I'm a Christian, I'm
not into religion, I'm into a relationship.
OK, so we've put a, we've kind of put a
definition on religion there that doesn't really, it it doesn't,
it's not really the definition, but we're using the word
to describe something uh that is in contrast to a relationship.
(13:23):
So the idea is a relationship is you have a relationship, you're, you're,
you know, you're in this relational thing with God.
Religion, you're into ritual, you're into rules, you're into keeping
ordinances and things like that, and the the personal side
of it doesn't exist. So this is a
(13:46):
This is a definition that we have created and applied
to a word. It doesn't, I'm not, it's not religion,
it's relationship that that euphemism, you know, like I'm just
thinking like, you know, here's a guy inspired by the
Holy Spirit in James 1:27, religion that is pure and
undefiled before God the Father, right? Like religion is approaching God.
(14:09):
So it's, it's, it's now you can, you can go
through the motions of being religious.
And but have not have faith. And I think that's
kind of where that that little saying came from, like,
you know, like I, we both grew up Catholic. So
we were religious in the sense that we went to church,
we did these certain things, but, but God was not
anywhere in it, you know, and I didn't think myself,
(14:33):
I didn't think of it like when I got saved,
I had I had never been in apost of church,
so I went back to the Catholic Church after I'd
given my life to Jesus.
And suddenly I just sound like, uh, you know, body
of Christ, broken for you.
Like it's just like, it almost took my breath away.
It was so profound, or the Lamb of God who
(14:54):
takes away the sins of the world. It was like
all these years, I was going through these motions, and
yet here what are they? I heard these words every
week and didn't know that this is the Jesus who
they're talking about the Jesus who loved me and died
for me. It's so pure religion. I, I, I, I
would like to be thought of like, yeah, he's a
religious guy, not like he just, he's thinking he's gonna
(15:16):
get to heaven by religious activity.
But rather he's his religion is to worship the true
and the living God, you know, there was, there was
plenty of pagan religions, you know, and competing religions, and
they spoke of it in those terms. And, and the
general population just thinks in those terms anyway. So, uh,
you know, people that don't know us, if they met us.
(15:37):
They would walk away saying, well, those, those guys are
religious religious guys, yeah, you know, exactly it's just a,
it's an identifying thing. So, but yes, it, it has
to be religion like James says, true and undefiled religion.
So you can have religion that's not true. You want
to have the true religion and that's the relational religion.
(15:58):
Good answers, great answers, uh, Brian and Richard, and thank you, Daniel,
for contacting us on Instagram. We'll take one more, uh,
Facebook question before we go to the phone calls at 888-564-6173.
This one comes from Sonya. She's in Stockton, California, and
she writes,
I'm hearing people, even some pastors, saying kids with autism
(16:22):
have a demonic spirit and need to be rebuked. Uh,
please tell us your thoughts. We'll start with Richard on that.
What do you think about that? Well, you know, nowadays
we talk about being on the autism spectrum, you know,
and for a lot of parents, you'd be saying.
That their kids are demon possessed. That's like to me
it's like my grandkids demon possessed, you know, if they're,
(16:46):
if they have some little thing like they have we
fall on they fall on the spectrum of autism like
I wouldn't think that at all for a moment, so.
And that what a cruel thing to say. Yeah, you know,
your kids, your kid's got a demon, yeah. Uh, no, we,
we would disagree with that 100%. All right, well, very good. Well,
(17:07):
thank you so much, Sonia from Stockton for your question
on Facebook. We are gonna go to uh our phone
calls at 888-564-6173. We'll start with Richard in Costa Mesa,
who's listening on the Kwave app. Richard, welcome to the program.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Hi, thank you. Uh, my question's about, uh, Leviticus, I
think it's chapter 14, and, um, it talks about the
sacrifice and the, and the priest is supposed to put
like some of the blood of the sacrifice in a
person's ear, and their right hand, and, uh, all kinds
of unusual things. I don't have a problem with that. It,
(17:45):
you know, it seems awkward or unusual.
I believe that every single thing in the Bible is
God-breed like Timothy says. So is there a significance to
these unusual practices?
Speaker 1 (18:00):
That's a good question, cause especially I was reading that
same sort of thing last night, Richard, just with the
blood going everywhere. I mean, blood on the big toe
and blood on this, and blood on that. It's like,
what in the world is going on here? So, um, uh, Richard,
we'll start with you. What do you say about that? Well,
I mean, we, we want to begin with how everything,
(18:22):
especially in the priesthood and the sacrificial systems was pointing
towards Jesus.
And in particular to the blood of Jesus. And so when, when,
you know, you think of why, why are we putting
this blood on the on on the lobe of the
right ear? Um, what, what about the right hand, and
what about the big toe? Well, it's like speaks to hearing.
Um, it speaks of your hand, what you do, your
(18:46):
toe speaks about how you walk, and how the blood
of Jesus, we want to be constantly like understanding like
my whole life, um, what I hear, what I do,
how I live, um, is covered in the blood of Jesus.
That would be my take on it. All right, all right, Brian.
Yeah, absolutely, and I think here in the particular passage,
you find this in a few other places, you know, the,
(19:09):
the priest when they were being prepared for their ministry,
that was part of the ritual that they would put
the blood on the ear and the and the the
thumb and the toe, which just like you said, Richard,
it was signifying their like total sanctification of service, yeah,
they're hearing, their, their, you know, whatever their hands touch,
(19:30):
wherever their feet take them.
Um, but in this particular case, in the 14th chapter
of Leviticus, we're looking at the cleansing of the leper.
So when a leper is cleansed there to go through
this process as well. And it's the same idea. It's like,
it's just the totality of the person in the ear,
the the the thumb and the toe, it's describing the
(19:53):
whole person sanctified and cleansed. Absolutely. Well, great answers. Richard,
did that answer your question?
Yes, it did. Thank you so much. All right, thank
you so much, Richard, for calling us at 888-564-6173. We're
gonna go from Costa Mesa to San Marcos and talk
to Phil. Phil, welcome to the program.
(20:14):
Hey, how you guys doing? I gotta turn off my
radio now. Um, that's a good idea.
OK, hey, uh, and this is a call out to Richard.
I helped out with the, uh, high school ministry years
and years ago, and, uh, it's just great to hear
your voice and your wisdom and I dig it. Oh,
that's great.
How you doing?
(20:36):
Man, I'm doing great. God is good, you know, so, but, uh,
did they, uh, tell you about my question, or do
I just lay it on you? Lay it on us.
OK, um, I was wondering back in, uh, the time
when they had the tabernacle, it never mentions that.
(20:57):
Moses went into the holy of holies. Did he go
in because he wasn't necessarily the high priest like Aaron was,
but he was Aaron's brother. Did he ever officiate in
that sort of
Um, officiation or whatever you'd say.
(21:17):
That's a good question, um, Phil, cause we know, uh,
Aaron was a priest and he would go into the
holy of holies, but I don't recall Moses ever doing it.
Did Moses ever go into the holy of holies? Uh, no, no, no.
As a matter of fact, I just today, uh, I'm
two chapters away from finishing the, the, the pannatuque. I mean, I,
(21:40):
I had to stop reading this morning because we had
to go do something, so I, I finished up in
Deuteronomy 33.
And so, no, in all of, uh, you know, as
you as you read through whatever it is, Exodus, Exodus
is where the the tabernacle is is um built and
erected and where the priests are anointed, and the whole
system begins, uh, the record of that is in the
(22:02):
book of Exodus for us, and then it, um, Leviticus
gives kind of more detail about, you know, the sacrifices
and the various laws and things, and the numbers kind
of picks back up with.
Um, some of that, but then more of the, the narrative,
the historical narrative, and then Deuteronomy is kind of a, a,
(22:23):
a reminder. It's the second law, so it's Moses reminding
a new generation of people about the law before he, uh,
goes to be with the Lord, and Joshua takes over
to lead him into the promised land.
All that to say, there's no place where Moses, although
Moses does intercede for the people, um, frequently, he falls
(22:47):
on his face before the Lord. Moses has a relationship
with God, a face to face relationship that Aaron doesn't
even have, but as far as going into the holy
of holies, um, there isn't any place where that's described
for anyone but the high priest.
So later on in the history, one of the kings
of Judah, he decides that, you know, he can probably
(23:11):
go in there, it's, you know, he's a righteous guy,
he's a king, he's a he's a he's a good, um,
you know, uh.
Believer in Yahweh, and he, he ventures in and he's
he's struck by leprosy, and um, you know, so God
makes it clear that only the high priest is to
(23:32):
go in and only once a year.
All right, fantastic, fantastic. Phil, did that answer your question?
And yeah, I did, and I got one more question. I, uh,
it's in my reading, I, I was going to Psalm 51,
and you know, where it talks about David being a
man after God's own heart. I always thought that.
(23:55):
We are men, and we are after God's own heart,
and God's heart is our desire to come to God
through Jesus and confess our sin.
So, would, would that be a correct interpretation of being
a man after God's own heart like David where he,
he owned up to what he did and he was
(24:17):
approaching God in humility by confessing his sin. Uh, Richard,
what would you say?
Yeah, I think to desire God is kind of at
the heart of it, um, and, and you can see
the the the the stark contrast between David and Saul.
Saul always seemed to have his own agenda. David had
(24:37):
God's agenda, but David, even having God's agenda, as, as
Brian was saying earlier, um, he, it didn't mean that
he was that he didn't make massive mistakes in his life,
but when he did,
He owned them because he had a heart after God.
All right, well, very much, very good. Thank you so much, uh, Phil,
(24:59):
for your question from San Marcos, 888-564-6173 is the number
to call. We're gonna go from San Marcos to Soar
and talk to Tyler. Tyler, welcome to the program.
Hello. Hello. Yes. Um.
So my question is, I'm curious to know if you
(25:21):
got you gentlemen had a moment where you uh decided
or the Lord had said now is the time to
just full on go into ministry and um.
And just leave whatever secular job you guys may have had.
That's a good question. Why don't we hear from both
the pastors on that one? Well, we'll start with Brian.
(25:43):
Uh yeah, absolutely. I, um, there, there was a point
in my life, in my early 20s, I, I had
been working, you know, just like you do, you get
a job when you're, you know, 15 or 16 years old,
and then you work and that that's what life's about.
So I had been doing that for a number of
years and it wasn't until I was, I think I
(26:05):
was maybe 23 years old when I finally, you know,
had the opportunity to.
Move into pastoral ministry in a kind of like an
internship where it was a training position, but I was,
I was paid for it, which was great, so I
no longer was working in the different um types of
jobs that I had been doing prior to that. So
(26:27):
prior to that I was uh I was doing construction,
and I was, I did everything from concrete work to
I was also a plumber, um, and uh apprentice plumber
working toward being a journeyman.
And I also kind of grew up in the the
sort of surf world here in Southern California, so I
(26:48):
managed um some surf shops and things like that, but
uh yeah, one day the Lord just um through my father-in-law,
Chuck Smith, uh gave actually gave me a call. I
was working at a surf shop at the time and said,
uh I want, I want you to come and see me.
And I, OK, I didn't know if I was in trouble,
(27:11):
you know, oh, what did I do?
And anyway, when I got with him, he said, uh, hey,
I want you to come and, um, want you to
join us on the, on the staff here at Calvary
Chapel Costa Mesa. And I said, well, uh, I
I don't know what like what would I do? I don't,
I don't know how to do any of this stuff.
(27:32):
And he said, well, that's the point, you know, you,
you've obviously shown and expressed a desire to serve the Lord,
and this is an opportunity for you to get some training.
And let's just see how it goes. And I said, well,
let me pray about it and I did and and
uh the rest is history. And I know you.
I, I was part of your journey with that, yeah, yeah,
(27:56):
that was a great, yeah, that's a great story. Yes,
we gotta hear your story. I think we only got
a minute. Oh well, so let's get the first half
of it, first half of it. Yes, I wanted to
be in ministry. I felt called to be in the ministry.
And I just longed to be in Pastor. I met Brian.
I was working at the chapel store and he'd come
in and he'd be buying books for his library, and
(28:16):
I would think like that's what I wanna do. I,
I don't wanna be selling books to guys that are
in the ministry. I wanna be in the ministry and
get the books and studying the Bible and um it
didn't it just didn't go so quickly, but I was
doing ministry before then.
But just not in that and then now I can
honestly say looking back I think I had a very
(28:37):
bad distinction between what we call secular and what we
call ministry. I wish I would have appreciated in all
of my frustrations that really I was in the ministry
working in a warehouse that I was in the ministry
and um what in whatever it was when I was
in the chapel store, it was like that.
That's where I got to be a living sacrifice to
(28:58):
the Lord, but that doesn't mean that you, you know,
reality is if you feel called to be a pastor, um, it,
it's a, it's you're gonna end up doing full time
stuff that is very different than what you were doing
when you were in, and you were, you were uh
teaching and coaching that one season. I was, I was
a football coach and a high school teacher, yeah, yeah,
(29:19):
and the Lord said, OK, that season's over now, yeah.
So let's come back after the break and talk to Tyler,
see if that's helpful. OK, Tyler, stay on the line
and we're gonna finish up your question there. If anybody
else wants to talk to the pastors, 888-564-6173. We have
a few lines open, so if you want to talk
to the pastors.
Call now 888-564-6173. Pastor Brian Broderson, Pastor Richard Cimino is here.
(29:46):
I'm Michael David in for Brian Perez, and you can
talk to us when you call 888-564-6173. We'll see you
in about two minutes.
(30:16):
Hello and welcome back to the second half of Pastor's Perspective.
I'm Michael David in for Brian Perez. I'm joined by
Pastor Brian Brudeson and Pastor Richard Cimino, and before we
went to the break, we were talking to Tyler in Silmar, who, uh,
he mentioned his question was, I'm in ministry.
And I'm wondering if either of you have had a
moment where you went from secular work into full-time ministry.
(30:37):
And uh before we went to the break, we were
talking to Richard and uh hearing his whole story and
how it connects with Brian. So let's go ahead and
continue on with that.
Yeah, that was kind of a very compressed velocity compressed thing.
Um, and when I got saved, um, I was coaching
high school football on my way to get a secondary
(30:58):
teaching credential. I eventually got the secondary teaching credential, was
coaching high school football, um, and, um, and loving it
because I thought God made me to do it and
I know he did make me to do it, but
there came a point when I just felt this call
of God to teach the Bible and listening to Pastor
Chuck teach. I just felt like.
(31:20):
He the way he taught us made it so touchable,
and I thought like I would love to do that.
And that desire grew and grew and grew and um
and I was involved in music ministry kind of around
that time as well I was going to the musicians
fellowship and I was starting to get opportunities. Brian, you
gave me an opportunity to teach a few little small
Friday night Bible studies with to some guys, and I
(31:42):
was given an opportunity to teach um at the Musicians
fellowship a few times and and that just deepened the
desire for me.
But it was like years were going by and I
was not having any uh there was no open door
for me to do it, and there were times when
I'd be really frustrated like, God, what are you doing?
You've given me this desire and I, why am I
not you give me this desire, but I have no opportunity.
(32:04):
How's this, how's this go hand in hand.
And um
Unbeknownst to me, I
Every, every Friday I'd, I'd be driving at the time
I was like working at the Minotha Music warehouse and
I'd be taking mail in the afternoon to the post
office and I'd drive through the parking lot at church
and there would be times Brian would walk out in
(32:25):
the parking lot. I'd be in the van and he'd say,
how you doing? Anything new? I said, nope, just dropping
the mail off again, and he kept asking me that question.
I go, what? OK, was there anything new? No, Brian's
the same news as yesterday. I'm I'm working at Mint
the Music warehouse.
And then on a Saturday morning I got a knock
on the door and it was a friend of mine,
he says, so are you enjoying your last Saturday off?
(32:48):
I'm going, what what are you talking about? He goes, Well,
Pastor Chuck just told me you're the new high school pastor.
Pastor Chuck had said nothing to him and, and then I'm,
I'm going like, and then I went and he says
you better go across the street and catch Chuck before
he leaves and I came in and, and Cheryl, Brian's
wife was in the office. She was just finishing up
with a uh a wedding, and I go, Is your
(33:10):
dad here? And she goes, no, he just left. And
I go, I just found out I'm the new high
school pastor. She started laughing. She goes, Brian and I
have known for months.
But Chuck said we couldn't say anything and then it
was then it was like, oh, all these dots connect
the smile, the question every day. So and I'm sure
Brian had just wanted to torture Richard for just dangle
(33:32):
me over the fire for a while.
Yeah, gosh, those are such great times. I can't believe
that that was, that was our lives a long, long
time ago, yeah, and I'm thankful that our lives were still,
we're hanging out in this room together. We're still together.
Now I know Buster Chuck had a tendency to surprise
(33:54):
people with Chuck was super unpredictable, you know, he really was.
I mean.
He's just like, whoa, I didn't see that coming and yeah,
you know, yeah, yeah, no, but, you know, we had
had some conversations, Chuck and I, for quite a while,
and I would just say, you know, Chuck, I think
Richard's the guy, you know, so yeah, so everybody has
(34:17):
their own unique way in. You're welcome. Everybody has their
unique way in, uh, Tyler, how was that for an answer?
Uh, it's fantastic. It's good to hear, um, the path
that y'all took, and obviously I'm in this crux of
a situation here and So what are you doing? what
are you doing now, Tyler? What's, what's like, what's what's
(34:40):
in front of you? So yeah, my, my background, I
studied landscape architecture. I've been working for a landscape um
design build company and
I just this month, uh, put my, my notice in,
so I'm going to be ending there at the end
of July with, with not really a clear, um, next step.
(35:01):
I'm
I'm going full on faith level here and uh trying
to live each day as peacefully as I can without
having to worry so much about where the money is
gonna be coming from. Yeah. So, are you thinking like
pastoral kind of ministry in the future? Are you serving
(35:22):
currently in your church? What's going on with that?
So yeah, our, our church is, uh, it's God is
Love Christian Church. It's, uh, we started in my pastor's
backyard during the pandemic. We're celebrate our 5th anniversary. Um,
my pastor has been, uh, grooming me for the ministry. I,
people in my congregation call me a pastor, but I'm
(35:43):
quick to say like, whoa, whoa, whoa, not quite there yet, um,
but
But I know that that the church is where I,
I find the most joy and um.
Yeah, so that's where that's where I'm at.
Well, you know what? You're right, you're in a good spot,
so just keep moving forward and uh faith faith is
(36:08):
the
That's the way forward, uh, you know, um.
I mean sometimes we'd like it to be a little clearer,
but the Lord seems to want to keep it a
little bit.
Murky at times, so we keep trusting and just take
it a step at a time, but we're sure that
there's some good stuff ahead.
(36:30):
Well, amen. Hallelujah. I love you guys. I love this station.
May the Lord continually bless you. Thanks Tyler the truth
into this world.
All right, Tyler, thank you so much for calling from Somar.
We're gonna go back to the calls in just a minute, uh,
888-564-6173 again 888-564-6173, but we did want to mention this
(36:54):
Saturday is the Harvest Crusade with Greg Laurie. That's gonna
be July 19th at Angel Stadium. It's uh.
Admission, uh, they've got a number of artists who are
gonna be there, including, uh, Cody Karnes, Kerri Job, Chris Tomlin,
Brooke Lizard Wood, and We The Kingdom, and it is
an outreach. We want people to bring somebody with them
(37:14):
who doesn't yet know the Lord, and, uh, you can
get all the details about it, even if you're not
in the area, you can watch it online when you
go to SoCal.harvest.org, and that's 70 p.m.
Pacific time and I think uh you have, I've seen
you pray at the Harvest Crusade, Ryan, and yeah, tell us, uh,
your story. You know, I've been involved with, um, you know,
(37:35):
to some degree or another over, you know, many, many, many, um,
years and years of the harvest Crusade, um, going all
the way back to the, to the first one that
was right down the road here at the Pacific Amphitheater.
Were you still here? Yeah, and then, yeah.
Yeah, and I, I wasn't here at the time, but
(37:56):
I was, I was down south, but um, yeah, yeah,
so the Harvest Crusade is, it's one of those, um, gosh,
what's it, it's become a um
What's the word I'm, I'm trying to think of, you know,
where it's just like a, it's like a fixture in
uh in our community and in our culture and, and
of course, God has used it extraordinarily to
(38:18):
To bring so many people to Jesus. I've met so
many people over the years that have come to faith,
you know, through either a crusade or just Greg's ministry,
you know, through maybe radio or, or, of course, Greg
did the Bible studies here at this many years, yeah.
So anyway, yeah, it's great, it's awesome, it's always wonderful
(38:40):
and um you know, as it says, it's a harvest crusade,
and there's a harvest that takes place. The the gospel
goes out and the
And the nets are pulled in and, you know, there's
a whole new, um, whole new group of of people
to be discipled. So yeah, we thank God for Greg
and and that ministry and.
(39:01):
Excited for the weekend. All right, well, wonderful. I'm looking
forward to being there as well, and again, you can
get all the details about the harvest Crusade when you
go to SoCal.harvest.org. All right, we're gonna go back to
the phone calls, and we are going to talk to
uh Pete in San Pedro. Pete, welcome to the program.
(39:24):
Oh yes, hi. Thanks for taking my call. You're welcome. Um,
my question is from Matthew 27 through 29, and it's
where Jesus is having, um, communion with his disciples, and
he took the cup and gave thanks and gave it
to them, saying, drink you all of it, for this
is my blood of the New Testament, which is shed
(39:46):
for many for the remission of sins, and this is
the main um question.
But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth
this fruit of the vine until that day when I
drink it new with you in my father's kingdom.
Now what did he mean by that?
(40:07):
Is there a significant meaning or is it just face
value or?
Well, I think remember this is that the Passover meal,
this is everything that um the Passover was prophetically pointing
to was now.
Being fulfilled
(40:27):
So, Luke tells us that Jesus says, as he sits
down for that meal, he says with deep longing, I
have desired to eat this Passover with you. So this
is the this is the culmination of the Passover. This
is the fulfillment of what was prophetically there. You know,
the Passover was a celebration of the deliverance from Egypt,
(40:50):
but it was also a prophecy about the greater deliverance
that would come through.
The Lamb of God who would take away the sin
of the world, and that's Jesus, and that's, you know,
the cup and his blood and all of that. So,
this is all being fulfilled at this moment, and now
Jesus says, I won't drink of this fruit of the
vine again until I drink it uh with you anew
(41:12):
in my father's kingdom. So, he's talking about, you know,
this is all the groundwork for the kingdom, and then
the kingdom will come, and the kingdom.
is pictured in another feast. So Passover was the uh
Feast of Unleavened bread, and Passover they went together. But
there's also what's called the Feast of Tabernacles, and the
(41:36):
Feast of Tabernacles is the final feast, and that's, I,
I think it's really a picture of the kingdom of
God when it comes in its fullness. And I think
that's what Jesus is pointing to there. Richard, you got
any thoughts? Yeah, no, I think he's linking the cross
with the kingdom in it because he's talking about his bloodshed,
but there's gonna be a coming kingdom.
And I think it it's, I, I think it's really
(41:57):
important for us that Jesus gave us these things to
remind us about, about who he is, what he has
done and what he has done is, is something now
but something yet future. And I think um.
The hope of there's gonna be a new heaven and
a new earth, and we'll be with him in it
(42:17):
and we'll be feasting with him in it. The feast
of Tabernacles, yes, yeah. All right, well, Pete from San Pedro,
thanks for calling us at 888-564-6173. We're gonna go from
San Pedro to Upland and talk to John. John, welcome
to the program.
Hello, thank you for having me. I really appreciate being here. Um,
(42:39):
so I'm trying to understand as I become closer to
my religion, Catholic religion, um, I'm trying to understand, when
will I start feeling my faith. That's, that's the, the
best way I can, I can explain it.
I've been learning more through reading about the importance of
the Eucharist and what it means, um, trying to understand
(43:04):
that in different ways than I've ever been shown. I'm
praying every day and every night. I am talking to
the Lord like he's my friend.
And uh I've talked to my priest several times already
to answer some questions. I'm in a dark season of
my life, and some people, when they profess their faith,
(43:27):
They feel it and I'm still looking out for.
Good things to happen to me, which I believe have
happened to me, but I'm, I'm, I'm wondering, am I
gonna feel it? When am I gonna feel it? What
am I not doing to feel that faith?
That's what I'm, I'm, I'm wondering. All right, great question, John. Richard,
(43:50):
what would you say?
Well, there's a, there's a couple of places in the
in the Bible that John that that they their their
exact quotes and
They both say the just shall live by faith. And
one way you can understand that word just as you could,
you could think of about well justification by faith is
(44:12):
surely 111 way that you could understand that to be.
We know that we're brought into a right relationship with
God by faith in Jesus, the Son of God.
So those who have come into a right relationship with
God by faith, then live by faith. Paul also said,
this life that I now live, I live by faith
(44:33):
in the Son of God who loved me and gave
himself for me.
So, when, when you receive the the the when you
receive the bread in the cup, it's reminding you of
who Jesus is. He's God's son, and what he did
for you. As as the Son of God, the Lamb
of God who takes away the sin of the world,
(44:54):
he gave himself as a sacrifice so that you could
be brought into a right relationship with God through faith.
That's the only way we can be saved, is through
faith in Jesus Christ.
We we believe with our heart on the Lord Jesus Christ,
and when we do, we're justified. We're brought into a
right relationship with God.
But that's not the end of the story, it's the
(45:15):
beginning of your story with God. And so, God's been
working in your life, and he's brought to this place
where like you're really believing the the theology, if you would,
but the the the most important thing is, is that
now you are going to live by faith in the
Son of God who loves you and gave himself for you.
(45:36):
That means to live by faith means I don't feel
like
I don't, I don't, uh, John, I'll tell you, I
don't wake up every morning and go, I feel like
I'm loved by God. I just don't.
Now, there are times when I am profoundly aware of
the love of God for me, but by and large, I,
I live by faith in the in the revelation of God,
(45:58):
in the person of Jesus Christ, that I am loved
by him, that I am his beloved child, that I am,
the Bible says that we're accepted in Christ because of
who Jesus is and what he's.
So, I'm now made accepted by the living God, the
creator of the heaven and and the the the universe
of all things. So now I live by faith. I'm
(46:20):
gonna live as though that's true. I think that's a
great working definition of faith. It's living as though that's reality.
I am so loved by God that he gave his
son for me. Now when my life isn't going the
way I'd like it to be, I've got to actually take,
put 1 ft in front of the other and live
by faith.
Live as though that's how God really does think about me.
(46:43):
That's how much God really does love me, and that
and and the Bible says that he causes all things
to work together for good for those who are called
by God, right? And and we love him, and so
we're gonna walk by faith now and some and and,
you know, our feelings, they sometimes don't tell us the truth.
A lot of times they don't tell us the truth.
(47:04):
So, we live by faith, not by sight, is another
thing that we're told in the New Testament.
And we walk by faith. And so I really want
to encourage you, um, you're gonna, you're gonna walk by
faith every day, and at moments you're gonna have, you're
gonna feel the reality of what those things are, but
it's not always the case every day, right? I is
(47:26):
there anything you wanna yeah, I, the only thing I
wanna add is that John, I think that there's
More feeling in your experience than you might realize, cause,
cause we can sense it just listening to you, listening to,
you know, it's coming through in the stuff you're expressing.
(47:47):
It's obvious that God's doing something in your life and you're,
you know, you're feeling different than you used to feel, obviously, right?
And so, um, like, like Richard said,
Uh, and, and I, you know, I'm, I'm the same way. Um, I, I,
I wish we all wish that we had this incredible
sense of God's presence with us all the time, this
(48:08):
incredible sense that God loves us, um, but we don't,
because our, you know, our emotions.
vary and, you know, circumstances change, but the facts never change,
and the fact is God does love you and Jesus
did die for you, and you are a child of
God because you've received him, and there's gonna be moments
(48:31):
where you're so exhilarated and everything around you is just saying,
this is the reality, and there are other times when
you're like, OK, I, I, I don't have any of
that stuff right now, but
It's still true, and I stand on it. That's what,
that's what living by faith is. Amen. Amen. John, does
that help you?
(48:51):
That that's it. Thank you so much for helping me
because yeah, I, I, I am feeling it and I,
I know I'm changing, but uh. Yeah. But yeah, I
understand what you're saying, and yeah, I think it takes
more time because I'm just at the beginning of my journey. So. Yeah, well,
like Richard said, you know, there is that moment where you,
you know, you've given yourself to Jesus and, you know,
(49:12):
Jesus uses the language of born again.
Uh, unless you're born again, you can't enter the kingdom. So,
you know, when, when you're when when you were born,
you're born as a baby, you're a full human, you
can't get any more human than you are, uh, when
you're born, but you're a long way from the full
(49:32):
potential of who you are and growing in maturity. So
that that's kind of the the process that you're in.
You're in the, the infancy state in some ways, but
you're gonna, as you follow the Lord, as you continue
to read his word, as you seek Him, you're gonna
find that you're, you're growing into a mature follower of
(49:54):
Jesus and we're excited for you. That's awesome.
All right, well, John from Upland, thank you for calling
in Pastorspective. Thank you for listening and continue listening to
the great, uh, teaching and counsel you get from pastors
like Brian Bruderson and Richard Cimino and others here on, uh,
this flagship station Kwave. We appreciate you listening. Uh, 888-564-6173
(50:16):
is the number to call. We're gonna go stay in
Upland and go to Robert this time. Robert, what can
we do for you?
Well, I was just, um, we're doing a study in revelations,
and I was thinking, once, uh, we come into heaven,
are we still filled with the Holy Spirit, or, or
are we seeing him in person? Because I was thinking,
(50:39):
what was the presence of the Holy Spirit?
Before he came down as a comforter to the church.
And so that's my question. So before the, before he
was the comfort of the church, what was the Holy
Spirit to people on earth? Yeah, in, in the presence
in the church, uh, in the presence of heaven, in
(51:00):
the presence of heaven.
All right, uh, Brian, what would you say?
Well, uh, you know, that, that's um a bit of
a
Challenge to
Maybe answer that exactly, but, so we know that there's
one god who exists in three persons, right? The Father,
(51:20):
the Son, and the spirit, and that one god is
um
What you call.
Um, omnipresent, which means he's everywhere.
Always. And um so, you know, the spirit of God,
of course, we in the Book of Revelation, like you said,
you've been reading it, you see references in early chapters
(51:43):
to the seven spirits that are before His throne. So
that's a reference to the Holy Spirit. 7 is just
the the way of describing the fullness of the spirit.
And so, the spirit is present there, but then you
have the spirit, um, also, all throughout history, you have
the spirit.
At work in the world and and particularly for a
(52:04):
long season with the, the people of God, the ancient Israelites,
and he's working there, but he's also working in the
lives of other people to reveal who God is.
And
So when Jesus comes and dies and rises again and
ascends to heaven, he sends the Holy Spirit in a
(52:27):
fresh new way uh to indwell those who believe in him.
So we are indwelt by the Spirit, and then we're
also empowered by the spirit to do works of service. Um,
when we get to glory, are we filled with the
spirit there?
I, I think the best way to understand is like
(52:49):
Paul in writing to the Corinthians, he's, he says things
are ultimately headed toward God being all and all. So
there's coming a time when uh even the son will
submit himself to the Father and God will be all
in all. So just exactly
What that looks like, um, we don't know, but we
(53:12):
know that God will be all in all, and uh I, I,
I mean, being filled with the spirit, we're born of
the spirit, we're filled with the spirit, you know, that
is for the present, but I think in glory, it'll
it'll be different, but I don't know exactly how.
Yeah, I mean, we don't know the relationship of the
Holy Spirit to Adam and Eve before they fell, no,
(53:34):
you know, um.
But I do, I, I, when you were talking, Brian, I,
I just was thinking of John 14:17. He talks says
even the spirit of truth whom the world cannot receive,
but it, because it neither sees him nor knows him.
You know him, for he dwells with you and will
be in you.
(53:55):
And I'm sure they weren't aware that the spirit was
with them until Jesus said, no, the spirit's with you.
And so we understand like he's at work everywhere in
the world. He's alongside of people, his great passion and
desires to make Jesus known to men and women. So
that anybody who comes to faith in Jesus because the
spirit of God was present with them, leading them, directing them,
(54:18):
you know, convic convincing them of who Jesus is, convicting
them of their sin.
And so I, I just don't wanna, I, it's, it's
a question, I'll be honest, it's a question I never
asked myself like that. So what's our relationship to the
Holy Spirit gonna be like in heaven? Yeah.
Great question, great question. Well, I'll tell you what, real quickly,
I want to see if I can go from, uh, uh,
to John and Lake Elsinore. You wanted to say something
(54:40):
to our earlier guy Tyler. Um, are you there, John,
in Lake Elsinore? I am. Go quick, quick. Go ahead
and say it. Uh, Tyler, Tyler wanted to know when
to go from ministry to, um, from secular work to ministry.
What would you say?
Wow. I think that it has a lot to do
with God and it has a lot to do with
the Holy Spirit, his province. So I was working construction.
(55:03):
I was managing heavy equipment in 2023, um, for a
contractor driving back and forth from Palmdale. I was worn out.
And I told God, I said, I need a new job.
And the only thing I heard was ministry, and I said,
how am I gonna do ministry? I had an online
ordination so I could do weddings and funerals.
(55:23):
But I wasn't able to, you know, go work for
a church or anything like that where they required some
sort of a license and, uh, pursued it. And in
February of 2024, which is a couple of months later,
and I'm sitting in a men's group that I facilitate.
For the last 12 years and so I've had different
people in there. John, I'm gonna have to cut you off.
(55:45):
Call back tomorrow, OK? And we're gonna finish that. Um,
he's become a chaplain. He became a chaplain. There's the
beginning of the end of the end of the beginning
for Brian Broderson, Richard Zamino. I'm Michael David. Thank you
for joining us for pastor's perspective.
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