July 21, 2025 • 56 mins
Pastors' Perspective is a one-hour call-in program where listeners can call in and get answers to questions about the Bible, Christianity, family, and life. The program is live Monday through Friday from 3:00 PM - 4:00 PM Pacific. You can call 888-564-6173 to ask your questions.
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Speaker 1 (00:14):
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez,
and we are here in the studio ready to answer
the questions you have about the Bible, the Christian faith,
how to live, the Christian walk, how to walk the
Christian walk.
And talk it to 888-564-6173 is the number to call.
We're going to be in the studio for the next hour,
(00:34):
and we would love to get your questions. Now, you
can also send in your questions, type them out on
the Pastor's perspective Facebook Messenger, or you can DM us
on the Pastor's perspective Instagram. If you're watching on Facebook, YouTube,
or Instagram, you can scan the QR code, and that
takes you to the pastor's
page on Kwave.com, where you can fill out a form
(00:56):
that gets your question to us too. But the best
way to get an answer is to call us when
we're here in the studio, like right now at 888-564-6173.
Who's answering your questions today? I'm glad you asked. Char Broderson,
the lead pastor of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, and one
of the associate pastors at CCCM, Richard Cimino. What's going on, guys?
(01:18):
It's great to be here. Hi, Brian, uh, not much.
It's Monday and uh we've been in a meeting all
day long, so it's nice uh.
Get out and come into this little fish bowl.
Don't you love those all day meetings? Yeah, one fish bowl,
to the next. Yes, yes. All right, call us up 888-564-6173.
(01:40):
Here's a question that was sent in online. It is
from Daniel in Riverside.
And he writes today, July 21st, is the centennial of
the verdict in the Scopes Monkey Trial. A lot of
people don't realize that the Scopes trial specifically involved the
question of the creation of mankind. I feel this day
is a good one for Christians to set aside to
(02:01):
consider creation-related topics. What ministries and resources would you recommend
that Christians turn to so they may better be able
to defend their faith against atheistic evolution?
And what are the pros and cons of the young Earth,
old earth, and evolutionary creation positions? What do you say, Char? Yeah.
(02:22):
You know, I grew up in the church and I
grew up in, uh, I went to a Christian school
growing up and, you know, I went to Ken Ham, um, seminars,
that's kind of, you know, our field trips, that's what
we would do, right? Things like this. And, you know,
the interesting thing was, I think as a child, I've,
I felt like, you know, there was just kind of
(02:42):
this fighting fire with fire, and I don't mean that
as like a, a criticism on creationism and some of the,
you know,
Um, apologists for it, who kind of make that their ministry,
their life. But all, all, all that to say, as
I felt like we're just kind of going after these
scientific statements with biblical statements, and what I found later
(03:06):
in life as I really began to read the Bible
myself and really begin to study and fall in love
with a biblical theology.
I was so compelled by the fact that God does
not give us a science book or a textbook even,
because I think sometimes that's how we treat the Bible.
It's a textbook, it's an encyclopedia, you know, it's kind
(03:26):
of this, you know, answer to every question and conundrum
that we have, and so we go looking to it
for answers to, you know, modern debates and things like that.
And what we find when we open up the pages
of Scripture is this, in the beginning, God created the
heavens and the earth. The Bible begins as a story, like,
(03:48):
so many of the stories that we love and read.
Once upon a time, right? This happened, and I think
You know, I was talking to a guy after church yesterday,
and he was asking me like, you know, is God
into facts or is God an ethnographer, you know, is,
is he after the heart? Is he after desires? And
I said, I think he's after desires in the heart
because this is how the Bible is given to us.
God's word is given to us as a story, a
(04:10):
story of God, a story of the world, a story
of redemption. And it's interesting as we read this story,
what we find in it is that we actually
Um, humanity has a solid identity. We have, um, someone
who has named us in this world, tells us who
we are. We are his image, and immediately we have
(04:35):
uh a meaning to our lives. We are created to
mirror who God is.
What he is like to the rest of creation around us.
We have this intrinsic uh value. We have been made
by God, we have been made for God. God did
not make us because he lacked or needed something, you know,
to worship him or to do his duty, but he
(04:56):
created us for friendship, for love, for partnership.
And then finally, we find this cosmic purpose, that humans
are actually created with a purpose, and that is to reign,
to rule, uh, to govern God's creation, uh, in his
place as his representatives. Now, what I find is in,
you know, our modern secular um view of humanity is
(05:22):
we have no God.
And if we have no God, we have no created
intended purpose. So, we come from nothing, uh, we're heading
to nothing, we're going nowhere. Uh, we have no value,
except the value that we just decide and create for ourselves,
and that really is dependent upon kind of who's in
charge then, right? And, and who's the strongest. It really
(05:44):
does become a kind of survival of the fittest who decides,
you know, who is valuable and who isn't.
And the only meaning, again, is that which we create
for ourselves. And I have just found in the pages
of Scripture just something so compelling. Uh, I have a name,
I have a place, I have uh a purpose to
(06:04):
my life, and my purpose, you know, as a human
is to
Discover that, and that's where God's word comes in, it
introduces me to God and to this cosmic story that
he is bringing about, not only to redeem the world,
but to recreate all things, and to put us back
into this place of imaging him, partnering with him, fellowshipping
(06:25):
with him, and ruling over his creation. And so, all
this to say, you know, I think some resources were
asked for. I have found, you know, rather than some
of the classic kind of um
Evolution, creation debate books that are out there, and I'm
not saying that they aren't helpful, but for me, I
was more compelled by books like um the drama of
(06:48):
Scripture by Michael Goheen. I was more compelled by Genesis Unbound,
by John Sahamer. Um, now, of course, there are, you know,
some of these apologists like John Lennox, his book Gunning
for God is incredible.
Um, I remember years ago, there was that book, Darwin's
Black Box. Yeah, that was really, yeah, fascinating. I think,
(07:09):
is that the one where he talks about the, the
eye and the complexity of the eye and these things,
the single cell organisms and, I mean, there, there's just
some amazing resources out there, but I I I'll just say,
you know, as somebody who grew up in the church
and was privy to all of these conversations and went
to these seminars, they never really hit home for me.
And I think it wasn't until I heard this incredible
(07:33):
story from scripture that I was invited to participate in,
that I found, man, like, this is what I wanna
live into, this is what I want to let out
live out of. And I'll finish by saying this, and then,
you know, Richard, I'd love for you to chime in,
but
I think what we find in our culture many times
is those who hold to, you know, maybe a secular
(07:54):
humanist view, is there is a sort of dishonesty, and
I know many of the new atheists have been taken
to task on this. They live out a biblical kind
of meaning, identity, and purpose without having the foundation, without
having a creation, without having a source, without having the
(08:14):
You know, divine designer give um the platform for all
of this. And so, yeah, I think Tim Keller was
one of the first I heard talk about this, but
this is just a dishonest way to live, right? Let's
just be honest, if there is no creator, then there
is no purpose, there is no meaning. And so, right,
(08:34):
it might as well, we should just smash and grab
and
Uh, live like hell and just get while the getting
is good. But even, you know, some of the most
renowned atheists in the world, they do not live like that.
They live out actually many times a Judeo-Christian ethic is
what we find, so rich. Yeah, um, I, I really love, um, the,
(08:57):
the way Sandra Richter frames the the creation account.
And, and she says God's original intent is his final intent.
And so if we wanna understand like what is this?
What are we about? Who are we? Everything that you
just said about our identity and how lost mankind is
in trying to find an identity apart from his Creator
is the evidence is all around us. Every everything broken.
(09:21):
Is is based and rooted in some false identity, right?
In a pursuit of the false identities in the hope
of finding who we really are. But I love, she said,
she said, um, Eden was the perfect plan. I gotta
get this out of the way here so I can
see the full thing. And God has never had any other.
His goal was that the people of God might dwell
in the place of God, enjoying the presence of God.
(09:44):
That is all our heavenly Father has ever wanted for
us and everything.
That lies between Eden's gate and the New Jerusalem, which
is the bulk of the Bible, right, is in essence,
a huge rescue plan. We could summarize the plot line
of the Bible into one cosmic question, how do we
get Adam back into the garden? In Genesis 3, humanity
(10:06):
is driven out in Revelation 21:22, they're welcomed home.
And so if we don't understand the the essence, it's
not about is it a young Earth, is it an
old earth? Is it theistic evolution? I mean, there are
like 6 views that Jesus loving Bible believing people hold
to in terms of the way they understand the creation account,
right in the book of Genesis.
(10:27):
But really the, the only part of that account that
we for sure have to hold into our into a
closed hand and say this is non-negotiable is that in
the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. We
can discuss the differences on how did he do that
which God doesn't give us a whole lot of information on.
How, how long did that take? I think we personally
(10:49):
there was a time when I was just like, if
you're not a, you know, young earth guy, you know,
6 days, 6 days, um, like you, are you even
a Christian and that really has how far it has
gone in some of these arguments, but I think if
we really understand like, oh just
The I the understanding like God has framed our identity
in the account of creation and, and like, you know,
(11:12):
the stuff that you've taught on Sundays about he's a
good God who made a good earth. Like, if that's
the case, it's like, well then, then I have to
I have to understand life in light of who he's
revealed himself to be. So yeah, some of that stuff,
you know, sail hammer, like I mentioned earlier, there's also
John Walton.
There's a few others who have done some work of
(11:33):
showing kind of the ancient Near East view um of
the creation of the world. Uh, what the author of Genesis,
who we believe to be Moses, is doing is he's
actually um giving Israel subversive literature, a different narrative to
live by because they are
You know, just immersed in kind of this ancient Near East,
(11:55):
believing that the world is coming about by a war
of the gods, and that there is this chief god,
you know, who kind of, you know, shows himself to
be chief among the other gods who slays this god,
cuts her down in half, and
You know, makes the earth, uh, the land out of
one part of her carcass, makes the sea out of
the other part, and then all of a sudden realizes like, oh,
I don't want to tend to this thing, and so
(12:16):
wrings her body out, and from her blood that drips
into the dirt, pops up these humans, and humans are
gonna be
Uh, the slaves of the gods to do their bidding,
you know, and so, I won't go into all the details,
but when you get into it and you read the
Genesis account, you realize how subversive it is to all
of that. Every single human is not a slave of
(12:38):
the gods, but actually bears the image of God, is
given this dignity to be God's friend, to be God's partner,
has a purpose, not
To bear the burdens, but to co-labor to partner with
God to make the whole world His kingdom. There is
just so much that the author of Genesis is doing.
You know, he's not doing. He's not talking to the,
you know, evolutionary theories of our modern conversations. He just isn't.
(13:03):
And I think the mistake and kind of what I
heard as a kid was that that's what the Bible
is addressing, that's it. And you just think, well,
You know, and so then the idea is like, well,
God just knew that these conversations were gonna come along
and so he, you know, put these things in there purposely.
And I think, no, we need to go back to
the original context. We do this with every other passage
of scripture, we want to know who was it written by,
(13:24):
who was it written for, what was the reason that
it was written, and then from there we begin to understand, oh,
what does this mean then for us, right? And so
I was really helped by
Um, the guys that I mentioned, John Walton, John Sahamer, uh,
Sydney Graanni, he's got one preaching Christ from Genesis, that's
also an excellent resource as well, so.
There you have it, yeah, my, my last thoughts would
(13:47):
be let's not fight with Jesus loving Bible believing.
People about over over our views of creation. We all
agree we are created by the eternal God and we
are loved so much by him that he actually stepped
into the the world that had rebelled against him in
(14:10):
order to redeem it and rescue fallen man and all
of creation. The end of the story is that
It's gonna be very good again so like let's not
argue over let's have conversations. They can they can be
interesting and they can be stimulating and we can glean
like I, I heard this one comment when when um
when we were up in Portland for our our graduation
(14:31):
thing from our cohort and.
And one guy stood up and he was a graduate
from the degree program, and he said, here, I came
in like loaded for bear in into this program to
get my master's degree, and he says, I am leaving
uh with a generous theology, not a liberal theology, a
(14:51):
generous one which goes, oh, you're my brother, and that's
a very interesting and you can support, you're giving me
support from the scriptures on your view, but rather than
going like, you're my adversary until you agree with me.
Like that's just we should put that in the rearview
mirror like like that should be behind us.
Daniel, thank you for sending in your question through the
(15:12):
Kwave.com pastor's perspective page, and we mentioned so many resources
right now. I could list them off, or I could
just remind you that we archive all of our pastor's
perspective episodes on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and Facebook so
you can go back and listen and, you know, jot
things down and
Purchase the ones that uh you think might benefit your studies.
(15:35):
But Daniel, thank you for sending in your question here
on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is our number. Here's another question
that was sent in online. It's from Dana in West Covina.
And she writes, there seems to be a new type
of homeless where it's no longer about a person who's
struggling to maintain or have a home, but a person
who is struggling with drugs and alcohol, choosing to live
(15:58):
on the streets. I so desperately want to have compassion
for these people and help them, but their presence in
the community causes crime and defilement. How do we help
them and what prayer do I need to soften my heart?
What do you say, Char?
Yeah, I don't, it's interesting reading this um statement here
because
What I've actually seen in some of the data shows
(16:19):
even recently, that there is a new type of homeless,
it's actually not the typical one of struggling with drugs
and alcohol. It's actually even teenage family homelessness. And I
know Calgary Chapel Costa Mesa, we are currently involved with
a number of homeless families that are enrolled in our
public school, and we've come alongside them to support them
(16:40):
because uh they're living on the streets, they are living
in their cars and
Their kids are having this, you know, um,
Gosh, just struggling, you know, and um the education system
and these things, and so we've come alongside them to
support them. So, I've actually seen a rise in family homelessness,
I think, over the last 10 years, and I think, uh, actually,
(17:02):
even going back further, I remember 2008 uh crash, uh,
we saw a new kind of homelessness, and I remember
there were guys even in our city in Northern California
where they they had Ferraris.
They, they were trying to offload and they were living
out of their car. They basically, this is like the
only asset they had left. I mean, just this bizarre
thing that happened when the market crashed, and they just
(17:24):
had to sell everything and they're living just off of,
you know, beans and things like this, and part of
the um we had a a kitchen, you know, and
Ministry in the um the Bay Area, and so they're
they're part of this. So, so I, all that to say, I, I,
I think there is a new homelessness, but I don't
(17:44):
think it's actually the one that we're talking about. And now,
of course, they're kind of always these um
Epidemics, you know, we recently saw the one with uh fentanyl, right?
And it's been huge and just awful and it's um
Yeah, just devastating and uh it's.
You know, the way that it's just affecting communities and
(18:05):
these things. Uh, the question, yeah, what do we do
about this? There's a question about, you know, what do
we need to do to soften our hearts? Um,
What do we do to help them? I think that
this is a, um, we need to partner with the ministries,
usually these are para church organizations, locally, um, you know,
local gospel missions and things like that. They are doing
(18:26):
some incredible work. They've got their AA program, they've got
their sober living, all these.
Things, right? And I think that people who are stuck
in this kind of addiction, they need those proper uh
guard rails and tools and resources to help them. I
think the best thing the church can do is partner
with the ministries that are deeply committed to that.
(18:48):
I think when it comes to our own hearts, you know,
I think it would come back to what we were
talking about just a moment ago. The Genesis narrative, um,
reminds us that every single human being, no matter what
we might think or what society may say about their value,
their worth, of their identity is made by God and
made for God. Um, every single human being, you know,
(19:09):
no matter what society might say, we might feel or think,
is actually redeemed, purchased by Christ.
Um, precious to him, um, the Son of God became
one of us to redeem them, to bring them back
to God. That's the value that they have. Every single
(19:29):
human being, uh, whether we see it or not, is
intended by God to rule with him over the cosmos.
And I think that this is where we need to
come back to the scriptures, and they need to be
our lens through which we see the world. We need
to see the world, we need to see human beings
as God sees them. Now that doesn't mean that we
(19:51):
don't see the sin, we don't see the shortcomings, we
don't see the brokenness, but first and foremost, we see
that what humanity is created to be, you know, like
Lewis said, you know, we live so far below what
God
desires for us, what God intended for us. And I
think part of the work of Christian witness is to
(20:13):
pull that veil back in our interactions with individuals that they,
through their interactions with us, might sense their worth, you
might sense their value. You know, there's a ministry up
in Anaheim that was doing this um homeless outreach called
the King's Table.
And they saw such a powerful turnover of the homeless
(20:33):
community because they started by restoring dignity, and what they
were doing, I, I think this is still happening, but
they're doing a thing where they are throwing this like
elaborate feast for the homeless community, and they are serving them,
waiting on them, and just, you know, giving them this
amazing experience.
Um, and they have found just through that dignifying act,
(20:58):
that it's almost like these individuals are waking up to
the reality like, oh, I have worth, like, I mean something.
Somebody loves me, somebody cares about me, and it's like reawakening,
like a a hunger and a desire.
Within them, and they've seen them get clean. They've seen
them be re-established in the community and even lead in
(21:19):
this ministry of the king's table. And it's beautiful. Yeah,
and I feel like, man, that's the kind of way
that Christians should be engaging these deep needs of our
culture and of our world. Yeah, I think, you know, chargers,
tying it back to the image of God, I think
sometimes we think
Like when we see these, these, these individuals on the
(21:40):
street and you don't have to look far. I mean
we just I gotta drive a block out of my
neighborhood and I see people talking to themselves or I
see just people like looking so where I'm, where am
I kind of a thing and we think well because
of the fall like we forget like we think, well, well,
the man has lost the image of God in Genesis
(22:03):
chapter 9.
This is post flood, right? It, it says for God
made man in His own image, and that's about like
talking about murder. You don't kill people, right? Why? Because
even after the flood.
Man's in the image of God, and I think that's
so important for us. I need to be reminded of
it because sometimes I can feel as frustrated as um
(22:24):
the person submitting the question like they're making life a
little harder, you know.
Um, and then there's the then there's the, the, the
people who are constantly saying like, OK, so that the
king's table is this, but, but what about all those
people that just took advantage of it and they walked
away and didn't care. I don't know if we can
work around if we can base our, our own attitudes
(22:45):
about like the these people based on the ones who
don't respond. And I feel like um I
Uh, when, what's the, what's the prayer to pray? I,
you know, the one that you've brought up so many
times and tied, it's the thread that's running through from
Genesis forward into Mark's Gospel is, is how would be
your name, you know, how can I make the name
(23:07):
of God, who is the Creator? How can I make
him honored in this world? How can I make his
name known and make his name great?
Um, your kingdom come. Well, what's his kingdom look like?
It's a kingdom of broken human beings being reconciled and
restored to, to his family. Like, if that's what I
really want, then I don't have to look far, you know,
(23:28):
I look in the mirror and go, oh, I'm in
his family. So I just think I need to be encouraged,
I need to be exhorted. I need, you know, the Lord,
the Lord, full of compassion, he reveals himself to Moses, right? Like.
I gotta go, Lord, I, I need to be filled
with compassion. I, I just love the honesty of the,
of the, of the person how do I do this? So, yeah,
(23:50):
and I think that's great too to direct it back
to the Lord's prayer, get a vision, you know, beyond
kind of your own frustration, you know, what does God want,
you know, what's my part to play in this? And then, yeah,
I'm always reminded, you know, the people that we have
the hardest time with or the issues that we have
the hardest time with.
If we are praying for God's kingdom to come in
(24:11):
their lives and God's will to be done in their lives, it,
it's hard to um
Yeah, I, I think that that will change the way
that we look at them, cause we are making an investment.
We're spending time and focused effort on praying for goodness, yeah,
wholeness in their life, and I think the actions of
the heart are gonna follow. We talk about this a
(24:32):
lot at Calvary Chapel, but that prayer, like you mentioned
a moment ago, is a formational prayer. The more we
pray it, the more we believe it, the more we
live into its vision, and so, yeah.
So I saw a meme the other day that was
kind of on this topic, so maybe you've seen it,
I don't know, but I don't remember the exact caption,
(24:52):
but it showed two pictures. One of them was of a,
you know, like a homeless person, and it was, uh,
right underneath was a photo of a well-known television evangelist
who was known for his flashy lifestyle and Send me
your money and all this other stuff. So the caption
read something like,
Would you rather give your money to this guy, the
(25:13):
homeless person, who might use it on drugs and alcohol,
or would you rather send it to this person who's
going to use it to buy a new car or
a new mansion or whatever, fancy new suit, what would
you say?
Yeah, you know, I don't like hypotheticals. Um, yeah, and
I think, you know, it's like the, you know, lesser
(25:35):
of two evils kind of thing, you know what I mean?
Like that's the question, right? And I think, wow, there's
so many other options too of where we invest our time,
money and resources, um, but I, I would remind us,
you know, we just talked about this yesterday, but the
lowliest people in the world are the people that Jesus
came to and came for.
(25:56):
You know, you don't find Jesus, and he talks about this,
you know, with the ministry of John the Baptist, like,
you know, where, where do we find John? Was he
in palaces? What's he wearing fine clothing? Was he rubbing
shoulders with the celebrities of this world? No, you know,
what did you go out to see, read, you know,
he's like asking these questions, and I think he's showing
that the ministry of the prophets, gods, you know, messengers.
(26:17):
They they came to broken people, they came to um
the centers of society. They didn't come to, you know,
the people that were well off and these things. And so,
you know, we find this consistent pattern throughout the scripture
that God has a um
I'll say it this way, a bleeding heart for the fatherless,
the widow, the poor, and the foreigner. And when we
(26:40):
come to Matthew chapter 25, and Jesus says, you know,
at the end of all things, right? When this, you know,
the king sits on his throne, he's gonna divide up
all people into two groups, and there's gonna be those
who did all of these good deeds, and if they
did it to these lowly needy people, they did it
(27:00):
to the king.
And then there's this whole group of other people that
did none of those things, and he says, if you
didn't do it to them, you didn't do it for me,
you know. And there we see that Jesus is actually
identifying with those who are hungry, who are thirsty, who
are homeless, who are imprisoned. He has an identity with them.
As much as if you do it to them, you
(27:21):
have done it for me. If you neglected them, you
have neglected me, and I think the church, God's people,
we really need to take that to heart. Mm.
Richard, that's great stuff. Yep, Dana, thank you for sending
in your question, by the way, through the Kwave.com pastor's
perspective page. Uh, Marissa hung up. I wanted to go
to her next. If you're still watching us on YouTube,
(27:43):
call us back 888-564-6173. So here's Sandra's question. She asks,
can you please give your perspective on the simplest way
to explain God and His existence to a non-believer. Now
we've only got a couple of minutes till break, but
she did ask for a simple way, so
Maybe we can answer this, sir.
Yeah, I mean, again, hypotheticals, I, I, I
(28:07):
These things are so hard, because I think, again, like
look at Jesus, right, and look at the way that he,
he never has like a format, right? He doesn't have
like a, you know, 10 questions to address this, you know,
or 10 strategies for 3 ways to, he doesn't do
any of that. The gospels don't give us that, they
give us a a living Christ who goes and he
(28:29):
meets these people, and he has conversation with them, and
he
Identifies their deep, deep hunger and thirst for belonging, for meaning, for, um,
you know, yeah, for fulfillment. You know, I'm thinking about
the gospel of John, right? There's the woman at the well,
there's a woman caught in adultery, there's Nicodemus, there's, you know,
(28:51):
all these different ways that Jesus is ministering, the man
at the pool of Siloam, you know, it's just every
single one of them is different.
And I remember Doctor Tim Keller, he would talk about
how every single human being has just this insatiable hunger
and thirst, and the reason is, you know, because we're
made by God, but we are separated from God. And
so we're we're searching, we're looking, we're hungering, we're trying
(29:14):
to fulfill. And so our job as, you know, witnesses
of God and of his good news is to connect
that deep hunger, hope, and desire with the
Hope and the fulfillment that only Jesus Christ, our King
and our Creator can bring. And so I would say,
get in the conversation, find out what they're hungering, thirsting for,
(29:36):
find out what they're afraid of, find out where they hurt,
and bring the good news of Jesus Christ to apply
to these areas. And, and along with that, you know,
if people are really wondering, it's sometimes it's our life
that actually provokes the question like,
What, what are you living for that I can't see? Absolutely. Sandra,
(29:56):
thank you for sending in your question through the pastor's
perspective Facebook messenger 888-564-6173. Call us after.
(30:20):
We're back on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is the number to
call us today. We've got Char Broderson and Richard Cimino
from Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa ready to answer your questions,
and we're gonna go right to Marissa, who is watching
us in Idaho on YouTube. So let's wave hi to Marissa.
Thanks for calling in today. 888-564-6173 is the number that
(30:43):
Marissa called, and you can call too. Hi, Marissa.
Marissa, are you there?
Did you press mute on your phone?
Going once.
Going twice. OK, so let me read the question off
the screen that Marissa, and we still have her on
in case she jumps on all of a sudden, but
(31:05):
she says, does it say in the Bible, if a
Christian takes their own life, but has accepted Jesus, that
they will go to heaven? Marissa says her friend took
her life a few years back.
What do you say, Char?
You know, the Bible doesn't specifically answer this question in
this way.
Um, it does tell us what is the criteria for
(31:27):
belonging to Jesus, right? Those who
Put their faith in Jesus Christ, you know, those, uh,
scripture says, who call on the name of the Lord
will be saved. And so, you know, these words that
are used there are they're final, right? That we, you know,
think about those passages in John's Gospel where Jesus is
(31:49):
talking about just the incredible security that God's people have,
you know, that
You know, my sheep are my own, you know, they
know my voice and I know them, and no one
can snatch them out of my hands, basically, you know,
Jesus kind of talks about like this triple grip, you know,
between him and the father, you write, like where I'm
(32:11):
in the Father's hands, and they're my hands, and nothing
can snatch them out. I mean, it's just like this
incredible security that the believer has in Jesus and what
he's done is we just trust him as we go
all in, like, we're with you, Jesus.
And of course, there are teachings about how we stay
and keep ourselves in the love of God, how we
stay in step with Jesus.
(32:33):
And then, the Bible really never addresses kind of on
the nose, this issue of those who take their life.
Of course, there are a few stories in the scripture
of those who have, um, you know, Judas in particular,
that is not helpful for our conversation here. There's a
few stories in the Old Testament as well. Uh, but
(32:53):
I think that this is what we find where the
scripture is silent.
You know, we have to rest on what we do know, right?
And so we've got this promise uh by Jesus, but
those who, you know, are in his grip belong to him.
No one can snatch them out of his hand. And
then I think in these areas as well, we need
(33:14):
to go back to the character of God, what we
know about God, right? That he is
Gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and abounding and steadfast love,
that he forgives sin, iniquity, and rebellion, that this is
what God does, that he is after humanity, his heart
is one to rescue and redeem. And so, what I find,
(33:37):
and I actually have uh family members who um
gave their life to Jesus, and over years and in
their case, uh, struggling with, you know, mental health and
these things ended up taking their lives. And these are
such complicated, uh, situations and I know for my cousin
(34:00):
in particular, uh, he lived a life where he was
just severely afflicted.
And I think, well, what is God's posture to somebody
who is afflicted in that way? Is it, oh well,
you gave up, so you can't be part of my kingdom. Well,
you weren't strong enough to resist, so you can't be
part of my kingdom, you know, you can't.
(34:22):
Resist these voices or this temptation, you were overcome by
these things, and so I'm gonna let you go. I
think about my gosh, get a little bit emotional here.
I think about me as a father, if that was
my kid, what would my posture be towards them if
they're struggling, right? To give up on them, to let
them go, you know, in their deepest moment of despair
(34:44):
and need, and I think, now, the Lord is gracious
and compassionate, slow to anger and a bounding and steadfast love. Yep.
And I think that, you know, even our own weakness,
God's love, you know, his faithfulness overcomes all of those things.
And so I think for those who have placed their
faith in Jesus, we have this assurance, he has got us,
(35:09):
you know, through this life, through death, and out the
other side, and we can be confident. Yeah, Richard.
Yeah, that's, that's so on point, Jar, and I, I,
I think of how many times.
We, we so quick want to, it's, it's so crazy
how quick we can be to condemn people. And if
(35:32):
they committed suicide, well, obviously it's because they had forsaken God,
they just, you know, or they, you know, it's their
own fault that they were in this condition and we
just don't understand like the the human mind is such
a fragile thing.
And, and, and there's been so many wrongs done to people,
not just the wrongs they've done, but how they've been wronged,
(35:55):
and how deeply wounded and hurt, and how they can
be so devastated by those things, and then there's just
organic biochemical things that go on. And the only thing
that I can think of, there's only one thing that
Can can leave you lost, and that is not believing
that Jesus is the Son of God and the savior
of the world. And if I believed in, uh, if
(36:17):
I believe with my heart on the Lord Jesus, I
shall be saved. And that doesn't mean that I'm gonna
be free from mental torment or deep depression that leads, like, even,
you know, um, my mother-in-law, she's got this thing called
trigeminal myalgia, and it's this horrific nerve pain in her face.
And it's so debilitating that she was just saying that
(36:40):
that when she goes, she's gone for treatment and and
she said that that physicians and people say that this
is suicide pain. Like there's actually things like not that
she's suicidal at all, you know, she's holding on and
she's so brave and so like she's so tough, I
would just be crumbling right now.
But she's this little like 4 ft tan lady that's
(37:02):
just like a she is strong and but for her
to say that she's heard that there's this kind of
pain that is, is so severe that people just can't
go on living. Like what do you do when you're
in that? Is God gonna go to you and that
like you said, is God gonna look at me and
and and say I'm sorry, but what my son.
did for you on the on the cross is now
(37:24):
we're just negating that because you could not take another
breath on this side of eternity because of the pain
that you're experiencing or the mental pain. So I think we, again,
God's a got a steadfast love. That's right. Yeah, there's
actually a story and I'm, I'm trying to remember, you know,
cause this is a prevalent idea, right, that suicide is
(37:45):
kind of this automatic entrance into hell.
Um, and I'm trying to, I was trying to look, just,
you know, does this come from some of the uh
Roman Catholic councils, uh, cause I know that Luther was
actually one of the first proponents that resisted this, uh, and,
you know, talks about this, um, because the practice was
(38:06):
with those who were, uh, who had committed suicide could
not be buried in the churchyard. Yeah, right, you remember this, yeah.
And so this is one of the things that he did.
He defied that kind of practice, and he gave this
sermon about those who are overcome by the evil one,
and basically what God's heart and posture is towards those who,
(38:28):
you know,
Give up, give in like that. And I just love
the way that he just brought back to scripture and
back to the character of God that, you know, as
Paul says, even, you know, when we are faithless, he
remains faithful, he cannot deny himself. Yeah, yeah, in fact, um,
Valerie and I, we were at um the castle in Austria,
(38:50):
and there was a group of people who'd come in
from Romania.
And they were so precious. I mean, they loved their Bibles.
They would just hold them as if this was their
greatest treasure in their life. And um Ray Bentley was
teaching a study and he he just referenced um the
the suicide of Saul and and basically said, you know,
(39:11):
well I don't think suicide is the unpardonable sin and
all of a sudden there was this undertone of people
speaking in their native language just like and and Ray's
kind of looking around and what has just happened here?
And so people began to interpret what's was being the
conversation was, and it was like.
No, you, if you commit, we believe if you commit suicide,
(39:32):
you are going to hell. And there was this this
woman who stood up and she was just in tears.
She's saying my, they would not let me bury my
husband in the in the cemetery because, so here's this
woman who was experiencing that reality that you just talked
about and there was this one old man who just
in the middle of all of it, he stood up
and everybody looked at him and he just quietly said,
(39:54):
the hidden things belong to God.
But the things that he's revealed to us belong to
us and to our children and it was just like,
end of discussion. What do you guys think you don't
understand that belongs to him, but what he's revealed to
us in Jesus and his mercy through his compassion, that's
for us and it was just like, whoa, the reality
that that there are people who still live under that burden.
(40:15):
It's amazing it is.
Marissa, thank you so much for sending in your, or
for calling in with your question. I don't know what
was going on with the phone lines there, but, uh,
we hope we, we hope you heard the answer to, uh,
to your question. 888-564-6173 is the number to call us
today here on Pastor's Perspective.
We've got Richard Cimino and Char Broderson here to answer
(40:37):
your questions at 888-564-6173. And on the line now we've
got Cindy in Walnut. Go ahead, Cindy, what is your
question for us today here on Pastor's Perspective?
Cindy
OK, so it's a phone line issue on our, no,
you're there, go ahead, Cindy.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
OK, um, I wanna hear your answer, of course, so
should I just be on my phone only?
Speaker 1 (41:04):
Uh, yes, ask your question on the phone.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
OK.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
OK. Turn off. I, I'm OK, what's your question?
Speaker 2 (41:13):
My question is,
Why have some churches, and I was talking about my
church in particular, but I won't mention the name on,
on the air. Um, I am devastated. I'm hurt because
I don't understand why.
Some Christians support hatred in the current presidency. They support
(41:36):
the current president, and to me that's just supporting hatred,
and I don't understand where Jesus is in all of this.
I have been with a particular church over 40 years
and
Before the election there were posts on Instagram about yes
we should support this person, we should support and God
(41:57):
bless him, and yes, absolutely God bless him, and I
have prayed for him, but at the same time I
have to ask God to forgive me almost on a
daily basis when I hear about the things that are
going on.
To people, the, the hateful things that are hurting people.
What happened to Jesus? What happened to Jesus's love? What
happened to love thy neighbor as thyself?
Speaker 1 (42:18):
Wait, Cindy, you're, you're asking God to forgive you for
the things that you see going on? I don't understand that.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
I'm asking God to forgive me for the hatred that
I feel toward the president. I should be praying for
him and praying for his salvation, but I feel such
anger and hatred toward him about.
All of the things that are happening that hurt people,
the hate that's being spread, the way that people are
being treated. I am in no way in favor of lawlessness.
(42:49):
I do not support a gay agenda and I'll be.
CQT, but I do support loving people, accepting them as
they are, praying for them, not judging them, and I'm
shocked and devastated that my church.
Supports this stuff if they support.
(43:13):
The president and the things that he's doing and they
did and they said so and it, it devastates me.
I can't go there anymore. I don't have a church
anymore because
Speaker 1 (43:23):
so how long have you not gone to the church now, Cindy?
Speaker 2 (43:27):
Since when all of this started.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
8 years ago, so you stopped going 8 years ago?
Speaker 2 (43:32):
No.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Let's, let's get to your, your question, Cindy. Um, yeah,
I think what we are seeing happen in our country,
and I think in an unprecedented way, uh, we are seeing,
I think, the church, um,
Or those who, you know, identify as evangelical. If you
(43:54):
actually look at the data, Barna has put some of
this out, you know, these are not actually faithful Bible reading,
Jesus loving Christians who are committed to their local church
and their local community, but those who, you know, maybe
mark that they hold to, you know, a Christian worldview,
many of them have gone the way in supporting Trump
and his whole
(44:15):
Um, cabinet and the policies that they're doing, it seemingly
in a blind kind of fashion, you know. Um, and
I think what we're seeing with that category of those
called Christian is a loss of a prophetic witness in
the culture.
And I think, you know, we in our church have
really come back again to these original documents of the
(44:37):
gospel and recognized that the, you know, apostles and those
prophets who wrote the pages of the New Testament were
actually giving a prophetic subversive witness to the people of God.
And right, you can find this language all through, like,
the religious leaders of Jesus' day are selling out to
(44:58):
the Roman authorities. We have no King but Caesar, is
what they are saying. But all the way back into
the Old Testament, Yahweh says, you belong to me. You
need to give your trust and allegiance to me. This
is actually what Jesus is calling for in the Gospels.
When he says, believe the gospel, the
(45:19):
Word there believe is a word like allegiance, go all in,
give everything to me and to my kingdom campaign. And
I think that we have lost this um clarity about
what the gospel demands of us. Jesus is king. We
are seeking a kingdom that is not of this earth.
(45:40):
It is coming down from heaven to this earth. We,
until that time, are witness.
of that kingdom. And Richard, you and I love to
talk about this. We're witnesses of the upside down kingdom
of God. You know, Cindy, in every way that you
said that we are to accept people as they are, right? Uh,
(46:01):
they're broken, they're sinners, they are confused about their identity,
their worth, their purpose in the world, and we through
God's love and through service to the world are to
show them a whole new way to be human.
We just put on displays Jesus says in the sermon
on the Mount.
God's light, God's love, God's way of peace, God's way
(46:23):
of righteousness, God's way of justice. And so I think
what we are seeing is that many Christians have basically
sold out. They are uh trading in the kingdom of
Christ for a kingdom here and now, a kingdom that,
you know, a king that protects them and gives them
the comforts and the things that they want, and it's
a closed group, you know, it's
Um, it's not for outsiders, it's only for insiders. And
(46:46):
so you can find so much of this in the
teachings of Jesus, and, you know, Richard, I can speak
for the both of us. I'll, I'll let you talk
as well, but
Uh, this stuff grieves us as well, yeah, and we
are praying that the church would have its eyes opened
and return back to its faithful witness to call, uh,
(47:07):
injustices to light and to represent God's justice and God's righteousness.
Yeah, there is, I, I think it's this in.
A conflation of.
Gospel
And the American dream, that somehow um the gospel really
(47:29):
is about the American dream, and if anything seems to
pose a threat.
To my life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.
Um, then it can't be tied to the gospel. Yeah,
and we just, rather than looking at like the, you know,
the kingdom of Jesus is nothing like the kingdoms of
(47:52):
man and everything about it challenges us to rethink the
way we view what our lives are really about and
are we truly expressing we believe that that we we
say your kingdom come, but
We're praying that so that his kingdom would be expressed
through us. And that kingdom is not democrat, it's not republic,
(48:14):
it's not independent. It's a, it's a, it's a kingdom
that's under the rule of God, and they should, people
should be able to look at our lives and say, oh,
that's what it looks like to be governed by God.
Very good, Cindy, thank you for calling in today to
Pastor's Perspective at 888-564-6173. Here's a question that was sent
(48:34):
in online. It's from Cathy in Bellingham, Washington. I believe
it's Bellingham. I don't know for sure. Can't read my
own writing, but, uh, Cathy writes, um, and Cathy's written
to us before, almost on the same topic, so I
don't know if this is something where.
She's not hearing the answer that she wants us to
tell her, so she keeps calling back. I don't know,
(48:56):
but here's what Cathy wrote. There have been many questions
lately about the sin of adultery, and I'm confused. I've
heard answers on this program that range from Jesus was
speaking to the Pharisees to, it's not a one size
fits all question to, anyway, it's not like it's the
unpardonable sin. What on earth is going on? asks Cathy.
(49:16):
It's one of the 10 commandments. No divorce, period. Full stop.
Now God was gracious to allow it for sexual immorality
because of our hard hearts, and I agree that if
there is domestic violence or abandonment, God would be gracious
to accept that. But this is turning into a free
for all. Is this position really from God, or does
it have more to do with the fact that if
(49:38):
a pastor really started holding people's feet to the fire
over it?
They would lose half of their congregations because statistically 50%
of Christian marriages end in divorce. Yeah, I just want
to address that statistically, uh, remark at the very end.
Uh, so, I was referencing earlier, um, some data put
out by BANA, and actually it addresses this, because we
(49:58):
often hear this like, oh, you know, the amount of
pornography consumption is the same in the world as it
is in the church. The, you know, divorce rate is
the same in the church as it is in the world.
This is actually not true. It's not accurate, and they've
done extensive data research, and there's a a specific book
that I was reading recently. I I cannot remember uh
(50:19):
the name of it, sorry, but
Showing, uh, you know, all these marriages were pulled, and
they actually find that, you know, Bible believing Christians who
are committed to their local church, they, they give, they serve, they, um,
you know, do outreach in their local community, these have
(50:41):
the happiest, most successful marriages. Their families are
Whole, their marriages are whole, sex and romance is fulfilling
in their lives. They all say, right, it's all these
like amazing statistics, you know, and divorce rates for this
category are actually, you know, so, so very low. So
we throw out these statistics all the time, and I've
(51:02):
been guilty of this too, so that's why I'm, you know,
I'm talking about it. Uh, and so I think we just,
we need to be clear about that. And then this
is really interesting. I'm actually teaching on this very thing
this coming Sunday. So I find it funny that like,
oh yeah, here we go.
Um, but I think one of the, the things that
I find interesting about her, um, issue here is this
free for all, and this is actually the very thing
(51:25):
that Jesus is addressing in the Jewish culture of that day,
because divorce had become this hotly debated thing, and it
basically become a free for all, to the extent that
the religious leaders
and the disciples are shocked at how conservative Jesus is
in his view of what marriage is all about. From
(51:46):
the beginning, he says, it was not so, but it
was written, you know, therefore, a man shall leave his
father and mother and be joined to his wife, and
the two shall become one flesh. What God has joined
together let no man separate.
And so, Jesus has this vision, you know, from the
biblical text, that marriage is monogamous and it is a
lifelong partnership. You are no longer two entities, you are one, right?
(52:11):
This is the biblical vision partnership that God has given us,
and I think that part of the issue is, you know,
we're kind of asking like, how far can we go,
rather than asking, what does God really want for money.
marriage. And what God wants is the same thing that the,
(52:31):
you know, Westminster catechism tells us that God wants for
human beings. The purpose of humanity, or as it says,
the chief end of humans is to glorify God and
to enjoy him forever. This is the purpose of marriage.
Two human beings come together and discover together how do
(52:51):
we glorify God and enjoy him.
And I love this idea, and I actually got this
from Lewis, but, you know, I was quoting this yesterday
from the weight of glory, that every single human being
is created by God and is meant to either rule
with him or is headed to this destination of, you know,
being this horrific thing that we only meet in our nightmares,
(53:12):
and he says, we are each helping 1 to 1
destination or the other. And you just realize, oh my gosh,
as a husband, as a partner to this woman,
I am either helping her to this everlasting splendor or
everlasting horror. This is the stewardship and responsibility I have
(53:34):
to call out positively, the glory and beauty of Jesus
in my wife to see her thrive in her life,
and that's her responsibility to my life as well.
That we would fully grow into the people that God
has created us to be. And what I find is
that most marriages, um, unfortunately, we don't have a bigger
(53:58):
vision than ourselves, our own comfort, our own financial state
or happiness. And I think, man, the church, we need
to get this beautiful vision before us of what God
He intends our marriages to be. He wants to put
his good news of his reign, of his love, of
his faithfulness on display through our marriages, and he wants
(54:21):
us to enjoy him, to enjoy the God who is
the flourishing God, the God who is the loving God,
the God who is the peacemaking God. So, 45 seconds, Richard.
Amen. Sorry, Rich. Oh, that's, it was great. It was great.
All right, uh, who was that? Cathy, thank you for
(54:41):
sending in your question through the Kwave.com pastor's perspective page,
and we are out of time on today's episode. Thank
you so much for listening today and for watching us
as well. We're going to archive today's episode on Facebook, YouTube,
Apple Podcasts, and Spotify.
And then we will be back tomorrow with another opportunity
for you to call in and ask your questions of
(55:02):
our panel of pastors. Today it was Brian Broderson and
Richard Cimino from Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa. Who's gonna be
on tomorrow? We'll find out tomorrow here on Pastor's Perspective.
God bless you guys.
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez,
and we are here in the studio ready to answer
the questions you have about the Bible, the Christian faith,
how to live, the Christian walk, how to walk the
Christian walk.
And talk it to 888-564-6173 is the number to call.
We're going to be in the studio for the next hour,
(00:34):
and we would love to get your questions. Now, you
can also send in your questions, type them out on
the Pastor's perspective Facebook Messenger, or you can DM us
on the Pastor's perspective Instagram. If you're watching on Facebook, YouTube,
or Instagram, you can scan the QR code, and that
takes you to the pastor's
page on Kwave.com, where you can fill out a form
(00:56):
that gets your question to us too. But the best
way to get an answer is to call us when
we're here in the studio, like right now at 888-564-6173.
Who's answering your questions today? I'm glad you asked. Char Broderson,
the lead pastor of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, and one
of the associate pastors at CCCM, Richard Cimino. What's going on, guys?
(01:18):
It's great to be here. Hi, Brian, uh, not much.
It's Monday and uh we've been in a meeting all
day long, so it's nice uh.
Get out and come into this little fish bowl.
Don't you love those all day meetings? Yeah, one fish bowl,
to the next. Yes, yes. All right, call us up 888-564-6173.
(01:40):
Here's a question that was sent in online. It is
from Daniel in Riverside.
And he writes today, July 21st, is the centennial of
the verdict in the Scopes Monkey Trial. A lot of
people don't realize that the Scopes trial specifically involved the
question of the creation of mankind. I feel this day
is a good one for Christians to set aside to
(02:01):
consider creation-related topics. What ministries and resources would you recommend
that Christians turn to so they may better be able
to defend their faith against atheistic evolution?
And what are the pros and cons of the young Earth,
old earth, and evolutionary creation positions? What do you say, Char? Yeah.
(02:22):
You know, I grew up in the church and I
grew up in, uh, I went to a Christian school
growing up and, you know, I went to Ken Ham, um, seminars,
that's kind of, you know, our field trips, that's what
we would do, right? Things like this. And, you know,
the interesting thing was, I think as a child, I've,
I felt like, you know, there was just kind of
(02:42):
this fighting fire with fire, and I don't mean that
as like a, a criticism on creationism and some of the,
you know,
Um, apologists for it, who kind of make that their ministry,
their life. But all, all, all that to say, as
I felt like we're just kind of going after these
scientific statements with biblical statements, and what I found later
(03:06):
in life as I really began to read the Bible
myself and really begin to study and fall in love
with a biblical theology.
I was so compelled by the fact that God does
not give us a science book or a textbook even,
because I think sometimes that's how we treat the Bible.
It's a textbook, it's an encyclopedia, you know, it's kind
(03:26):
of this, you know, answer to every question and conundrum
that we have, and so we go looking to it
for answers to, you know, modern debates and things like that.
And what we find when we open up the pages
of Scripture is this, in the beginning, God created the
heavens and the earth. The Bible begins as a story, like,
(03:48):
so many of the stories that we love and read.
Once upon a time, right? This happened, and I think
You know, I was talking to a guy after church yesterday,
and he was asking me like, you know, is God
into facts or is God an ethnographer, you know, is,
is he after the heart? Is he after desires? And
I said, I think he's after desires in the heart
because this is how the Bible is given to us.
God's word is given to us as a story, a
(04:10):
story of God, a story of the world, a story
of redemption. And it's interesting as we read this story,
what we find in it is that we actually
Um, humanity has a solid identity. We have, um, someone
who has named us in this world, tells us who
we are. We are his image, and immediately we have
(04:35):
uh a meaning to our lives. We are created to
mirror who God is.
What he is like to the rest of creation around us.
We have this intrinsic uh value. We have been made
by God, we have been made for God. God did
not make us because he lacked or needed something, you know,
to worship him or to do his duty, but he
(04:56):
created us for friendship, for love, for partnership.
And then finally, we find this cosmic purpose, that humans
are actually created with a purpose, and that is to reign,
to rule, uh, to govern God's creation, uh, in his
place as his representatives. Now, what I find is in,
you know, our modern secular um view of humanity is
(05:22):
we have no God.
And if we have no God, we have no created
intended purpose. So, we come from nothing, uh, we're heading
to nothing, we're going nowhere. Uh, we have no value,
except the value that we just decide and create for ourselves,
and that really is dependent upon kind of who's in
charge then, right? And, and who's the strongest. It really
(05:44):
does become a kind of survival of the fittest who decides,
you know, who is valuable and who isn't.
And the only meaning, again, is that which we create
for ourselves. And I have just found in the pages
of Scripture just something so compelling. Uh, I have a name,
I have a place, I have uh a purpose to
(06:04):
my life, and my purpose, you know, as a human
is to
Discover that, and that's where God's word comes in, it
introduces me to God and to this cosmic story that
he is bringing about, not only to redeem the world,
but to recreate all things, and to put us back
into this place of imaging him, partnering with him, fellowshipping
(06:25):
with him, and ruling over his creation. And so, all
this to say, you know, I think some resources were
asked for. I have found, you know, rather than some
of the classic kind of um
Evolution, creation debate books that are out there, and I'm
not saying that they aren't helpful, but for me, I
was more compelled by books like um the drama of
(06:48):
Scripture by Michael Goheen. I was more compelled by Genesis Unbound,
by John Sahamer. Um, now, of course, there are, you know,
some of these apologists like John Lennox, his book Gunning
for God is incredible.
Um, I remember years ago, there was that book, Darwin's
Black Box. Yeah, that was really, yeah, fascinating. I think,
(07:09):
is that the one where he talks about the, the
eye and the complexity of the eye and these things,
the single cell organisms and, I mean, there, there's just
some amazing resources out there, but I I I'll just say,
you know, as somebody who grew up in the church
and was privy to all of these conversations and went
to these seminars, they never really hit home for me.
And I think it wasn't until I heard this incredible
(07:33):
story from scripture that I was invited to participate in,
that I found, man, like, this is what I wanna
live into, this is what I want to let out
live out of. And I'll finish by saying this, and then,
you know, Richard, I'd love for you to chime in,
but
I think what we find in our culture many times
is those who hold to, you know, maybe a secular
(07:54):
humanist view, is there is a sort of dishonesty, and
I know many of the new atheists have been taken
to task on this. They live out a biblical kind
of meaning, identity, and purpose without having the foundation, without
having a creation, without having a source, without having the
(08:14):
You know, divine designer give um the platform for all
of this. And so, yeah, I think Tim Keller was
one of the first I heard talk about this, but
this is just a dishonest way to live, right? Let's
just be honest, if there is no creator, then there
is no purpose, there is no meaning. And so, right,
(08:34):
it might as well, we should just smash and grab
and
Uh, live like hell and just get while the getting
is good. But even, you know, some of the most
renowned atheists in the world, they do not live like that.
They live out actually many times a Judeo-Christian ethic is
what we find, so rich. Yeah, um, I, I really love, um, the,
(08:57):
the way Sandra Richter frames the the creation account.
And, and she says God's original intent is his final intent.
And so if we wanna understand like what is this?
What are we about? Who are we? Everything that you
just said about our identity and how lost mankind is
in trying to find an identity apart from his Creator
is the evidence is all around us. Every everything broken.
(09:21):
Is is based and rooted in some false identity, right?
In a pursuit of the false identities in the hope
of finding who we really are. But I love, she said,
she said, um, Eden was the perfect plan. I gotta
get this out of the way here so I can
see the full thing. And God has never had any other.
His goal was that the people of God might dwell
in the place of God, enjoying the presence of God.
(09:44):
That is all our heavenly Father has ever wanted for
us and everything.
That lies between Eden's gate and the New Jerusalem, which
is the bulk of the Bible, right, is in essence,
a huge rescue plan. We could summarize the plot line
of the Bible into one cosmic question, how do we
get Adam back into the garden? In Genesis 3, humanity
(10:06):
is driven out in Revelation 21:22, they're welcomed home.
And so if we don't understand the the essence, it's
not about is it a young Earth, is it an
old earth? Is it theistic evolution? I mean, there are
like 6 views that Jesus loving Bible believing people hold
to in terms of the way they understand the creation account,
right in the book of Genesis.
(10:27):
But really the, the only part of that account that
we for sure have to hold into our into a
closed hand and say this is non-negotiable is that in
the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. We
can discuss the differences on how did he do that
which God doesn't give us a whole lot of information on.
How, how long did that take? I think we personally
(10:49):
there was a time when I was just like, if
you're not a, you know, young earth guy, you know,
6 days, 6 days, um, like you, are you even
a Christian and that really has how far it has
gone in some of these arguments, but I think if
we really understand like, oh just
The I the understanding like God has framed our identity
in the account of creation and, and like, you know,
(11:12):
the stuff that you've taught on Sundays about he's a
good God who made a good earth. Like, if that's
the case, it's like, well then, then I have to
I have to understand life in light of who he's
revealed himself to be. So yeah, some of that stuff,
you know, sail hammer, like I mentioned earlier, there's also
John Walton.
There's a few others who have done some work of
(11:33):
showing kind of the ancient Near East view um of
the creation of the world. Uh, what the author of Genesis,
who we believe to be Moses, is doing is he's
actually um giving Israel subversive literature, a different narrative to
live by because they are
You know, just immersed in kind of this ancient Near East,
(11:55):
believing that the world is coming about by a war
of the gods, and that there is this chief god,
you know, who kind of, you know, shows himself to
be chief among the other gods who slays this god,
cuts her down in half, and
You know, makes the earth, uh, the land out of
one part of her carcass, makes the sea out of
the other part, and then all of a sudden realizes like, oh,
I don't want to tend to this thing, and so
(12:16):
wrings her body out, and from her blood that drips
into the dirt, pops up these humans, and humans are
gonna be
Uh, the slaves of the gods to do their bidding,
you know, and so, I won't go into all the details,
but when you get into it and you read the
Genesis account, you realize how subversive it is to all
of that. Every single human is not a slave of
(12:38):
the gods, but actually bears the image of God, is
given this dignity to be God's friend, to be God's partner,
has a purpose, not
To bear the burdens, but to co-labor to partner with
God to make the whole world His kingdom. There is
just so much that the author of Genesis is doing.
You know, he's not doing. He's not talking to the,
you know, evolutionary theories of our modern conversations. He just isn't.
(13:03):
And I think the mistake and kind of what I
heard as a kid was that that's what the Bible
is addressing, that's it. And you just think, well,
You know, and so then the idea is like, well,
God just knew that these conversations were gonna come along
and so he, you know, put these things in there purposely.
And I think, no, we need to go back to
the original context. We do this with every other passage
of scripture, we want to know who was it written by,
(13:24):
who was it written for, what was the reason that
it was written, and then from there we begin to understand, oh,
what does this mean then for us, right? And so
I was really helped by
Um, the guys that I mentioned, John Walton, John Sahamer, uh,
Sydney Graanni, he's got one preaching Christ from Genesis, that's
also an excellent resource as well, so.
There you have it, yeah, my, my last thoughts would
(13:47):
be let's not fight with Jesus loving Bible believing.
People about over over our views of creation. We all
agree we are created by the eternal God and we
are loved so much by him that he actually stepped
into the the world that had rebelled against him in
(14:10):
order to redeem it and rescue fallen man and all
of creation. The end of the story is that
It's gonna be very good again so like let's not
argue over let's have conversations. They can they can be
interesting and they can be stimulating and we can glean
like I, I heard this one comment when when um
when we were up in Portland for our our graduation
(14:31):
thing from our cohort and.
And one guy stood up and he was a graduate
from the degree program, and he said, here, I came
in like loaded for bear in into this program to
get my master's degree, and he says, I am leaving
uh with a generous theology, not a liberal theology, a
(14:51):
generous one which goes, oh, you're my brother, and that's
a very interesting and you can support, you're giving me
support from the scriptures on your view, but rather than
going like, you're my adversary until you agree with me.
Like that's just we should put that in the rearview
mirror like like that should be behind us.
Daniel, thank you for sending in your question through the
(15:12):
Kwave.com pastor's perspective page, and we mentioned so many resources
right now. I could list them off, or I could
just remind you that we archive all of our pastor's
perspective episodes on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and Facebook so
you can go back and listen and, you know, jot
things down and
Purchase the ones that uh you think might benefit your studies.
(15:35):
But Daniel, thank you for sending in your question here
on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is our number. Here's another question
that was sent in online. It's from Dana in West Covina.
And she writes, there seems to be a new type
of homeless where it's no longer about a person who's
struggling to maintain or have a home, but a person
who is struggling with drugs and alcohol, choosing to live
(15:58):
on the streets. I so desperately want to have compassion
for these people and help them, but their presence in
the community causes crime and defilement. How do we help
them and what prayer do I need to soften my heart?
What do you say, Char?
Yeah, I don't, it's interesting reading this um statement here
because
What I've actually seen in some of the data shows
(16:19):
even recently, that there is a new type of homeless,
it's actually not the typical one of struggling with drugs
and alcohol. It's actually even teenage family homelessness. And I
know Calgary Chapel Costa Mesa, we are currently involved with
a number of homeless families that are enrolled in our
public school, and we've come alongside them to support them
(16:40):
because uh they're living on the streets, they are living
in their cars and
Their kids are having this, you know, um,
Gosh, just struggling, you know, and um the education system
and these things, and so we've come alongside them to
support them. So, I've actually seen a rise in family homelessness,
I think, over the last 10 years, and I think, uh, actually,
(17:02):
even going back further, I remember 2008 uh crash, uh,
we saw a new kind of homelessness, and I remember
there were guys even in our city in Northern California
where they they had Ferraris.
They, they were trying to offload and they were living
out of their car. They basically, this is like the
only asset they had left. I mean, just this bizarre
thing that happened when the market crashed, and they just
(17:24):
had to sell everything and they're living just off of,
you know, beans and things like this, and part of
the um we had a a kitchen, you know, and
Ministry in the um the Bay Area, and so they're
they're part of this. So, so I, all that to say, I, I,
I think there is a new homelessness, but I don't
(17:44):
think it's actually the one that we're talking about. And now,
of course, they're kind of always these um
Epidemics, you know, we recently saw the one with uh fentanyl, right?
And it's been huge and just awful and it's um
Yeah, just devastating and uh it's.
You know, the way that it's just affecting communities and
(18:05):
these things. Uh, the question, yeah, what do we do
about this? There's a question about, you know, what do
we need to do to soften our hearts? Um,
What do we do to help them? I think that
this is a, um, we need to partner with the ministries,
usually these are para church organizations, locally, um, you know,
local gospel missions and things like that. They are doing
(18:26):
some incredible work. They've got their AA program, they've got
their sober living, all these.
Things, right? And I think that people who are stuck
in this kind of addiction, they need those proper uh
guard rails and tools and resources to help them. I
think the best thing the church can do is partner
with the ministries that are deeply committed to that.
(18:48):
I think when it comes to our own hearts, you know,
I think it would come back to what we were
talking about just a moment ago. The Genesis narrative, um,
reminds us that every single human being, no matter what
we might think or what society may say about their value,
their worth, of their identity is made by God and
made for God. Um, every single human being, you know,
(19:09):
no matter what society might say, we might feel or think,
is actually redeemed, purchased by Christ.
Um, precious to him, um, the Son of God became
one of us to redeem them, to bring them back
to God. That's the value that they have. Every single
(19:29):
human being, uh, whether we see it or not, is
intended by God to rule with him over the cosmos.
And I think that this is where we need to
come back to the scriptures, and they need to be
our lens through which we see the world. We need
to see the world, we need to see human beings
as God sees them. Now that doesn't mean that we
(19:51):
don't see the sin, we don't see the shortcomings, we
don't see the brokenness, but first and foremost, we see
that what humanity is created to be, you know, like
Lewis said, you know, we live so far below what
God
desires for us, what God intended for us. And I
think part of the work of Christian witness is to
(20:13):
pull that veil back in our interactions with individuals that they,
through their interactions with us, might sense their worth, you
might sense their value. You know, there's a ministry up
in Anaheim that was doing this um homeless outreach called
the King's Table.
And they saw such a powerful turnover of the homeless
(20:33):
community because they started by restoring dignity, and what they
were doing, I, I think this is still happening, but
they're doing a thing where they are throwing this like
elaborate feast for the homeless community, and they are serving them,
waiting on them, and just, you know, giving them this
amazing experience.
Um, and they have found just through that dignifying act,
(20:58):
that it's almost like these individuals are waking up to
the reality like, oh, I have worth, like, I mean something.
Somebody loves me, somebody cares about me, and it's like reawakening,
like a a hunger and a desire.
Within them, and they've seen them get clean. They've seen
them be re-established in the community and even lead in
(21:19):
this ministry of the king's table. And it's beautiful. Yeah,
and I feel like, man, that's the kind of way
that Christians should be engaging these deep needs of our
culture and of our world. Yeah, I think, you know, chargers,
tying it back to the image of God, I think
sometimes we think
Like when we see these, these, these individuals on the
(21:40):
street and you don't have to look far. I mean
we just I gotta drive a block out of my
neighborhood and I see people talking to themselves or I
see just people like looking so where I'm, where am
I kind of a thing and we think well because
of the fall like we forget like we think, well, well,
the man has lost the image of God in Genesis
(22:03):
chapter 9.
This is post flood, right? It, it says for God
made man in His own image, and that's about like
talking about murder. You don't kill people, right? Why? Because
even after the flood.
Man's in the image of God, and I think that's
so important for us. I need to be reminded of
it because sometimes I can feel as frustrated as um
(22:24):
the person submitting the question like they're making life a
little harder, you know.
Um, and then there's the then there's the, the, the
people who are constantly saying like, OK, so that the
king's table is this, but, but what about all those
people that just took advantage of it and they walked
away and didn't care. I don't know if we can
work around if we can base our, our own attitudes
(22:45):
about like the these people based on the ones who
don't respond. And I feel like um I
Uh, when, what's the, what's the prayer to pray? I,
you know, the one that you've brought up so many
times and tied, it's the thread that's running through from
Genesis forward into Mark's Gospel is, is how would be
your name, you know, how can I make the name
(23:07):
of God, who is the Creator? How can I make
him honored in this world? How can I make his
name known and make his name great?
Um, your kingdom come. Well, what's his kingdom look like?
It's a kingdom of broken human beings being reconciled and
restored to, to his family. Like, if that's what I
really want, then I don't have to look far, you know,
(23:28):
I look in the mirror and go, oh, I'm in
his family. So I just think I need to be encouraged,
I need to be exhorted. I need, you know, the Lord,
the Lord, full of compassion, he reveals himself to Moses, right? Like.
I gotta go, Lord, I, I need to be filled
with compassion. I, I just love the honesty of the,
of the, of the person how do I do this? So, yeah,
(23:50):
and I think that's great too to direct it back
to the Lord's prayer, get a vision, you know, beyond
kind of your own frustration, you know, what does God want,
you know, what's my part to play in this? And then, yeah,
I'm always reminded, you know, the people that we have
the hardest time with or the issues that we have
the hardest time with.
If we are praying for God's kingdom to come in
(24:11):
their lives and God's will to be done in their lives, it,
it's hard to um
Yeah, I, I think that that will change the way
that we look at them, cause we are making an investment.
We're spending time and focused effort on praying for goodness, yeah,
wholeness in their life, and I think the actions of
the heart are gonna follow. We talk about this a
(24:32):
lot at Calvary Chapel, but that prayer, like you mentioned
a moment ago, is a formational prayer. The more we
pray it, the more we believe it, the more we
live into its vision, and so, yeah.
So I saw a meme the other day that was
kind of on this topic, so maybe you've seen it,
I don't know, but I don't remember the exact caption,
(24:52):
but it showed two pictures. One of them was of a,
you know, like a homeless person, and it was, uh,
right underneath was a photo of a well-known television evangelist
who was known for his flashy lifestyle and Send me
your money and all this other stuff. So the caption
read something like,
Would you rather give your money to this guy, the
(25:13):
homeless person, who might use it on drugs and alcohol,
or would you rather send it to this person who's
going to use it to buy a new car or
a new mansion or whatever, fancy new suit, what would
you say?
Yeah, you know, I don't like hypotheticals. Um, yeah, and
I think, you know, it's like the, you know, lesser
(25:35):
of two evils kind of thing, you know what I mean?
Like that's the question, right? And I think, wow, there's
so many other options too of where we invest our time,
money and resources, um, but I, I would remind us,
you know, we just talked about this yesterday, but the
lowliest people in the world are the people that Jesus
came to and came for.
(25:56):
You know, you don't find Jesus, and he talks about this,
you know, with the ministry of John the Baptist, like,
you know, where, where do we find John? Was he
in palaces? What's he wearing fine clothing? Was he rubbing
shoulders with the celebrities of this world? No, you know,
what did you go out to see, read, you know,
he's like asking these questions, and I think he's showing
that the ministry of the prophets, gods, you know, messengers.
(26:17):
They they came to broken people, they came to um
the centers of society. They didn't come to, you know,
the people that were well off and these things. And so,
you know, we find this consistent pattern throughout the scripture
that God has a um
I'll say it this way, a bleeding heart for the fatherless,
the widow, the poor, and the foreigner. And when we
(26:40):
come to Matthew chapter 25, and Jesus says, you know,
at the end of all things, right? When this, you know,
the king sits on his throne, he's gonna divide up
all people into two groups, and there's gonna be those
who did all of these good deeds, and if they
did it to these lowly needy people, they did it
(27:00):
to the king.
And then there's this whole group of other people that
did none of those things, and he says, if you
didn't do it to them, you didn't do it for me,
you know. And there we see that Jesus is actually
identifying with those who are hungry, who are thirsty, who
are homeless, who are imprisoned. He has an identity with them.
As much as if you do it to them, you
(27:21):
have done it for me. If you neglected them, you
have neglected me, and I think the church, God's people,
we really need to take that to heart. Mm.
Richard, that's great stuff. Yep, Dana, thank you for sending
in your question, by the way, through the Kwave.com pastor's
perspective page. Uh, Marissa hung up. I wanted to go
to her next. If you're still watching us on YouTube,
(27:43):
call us back 888-564-6173. So here's Sandra's question. She asks,
can you please give your perspective on the simplest way
to explain God and His existence to a non-believer. Now
we've only got a couple of minutes till break, but
she did ask for a simple way, so
Maybe we can answer this, sir.
Yeah, I mean, again, hypotheticals, I, I, I
(28:07):
These things are so hard, because I think, again, like
look at Jesus, right, and look at the way that he,
he never has like a format, right? He doesn't have
like a, you know, 10 questions to address this, you know,
or 10 strategies for 3 ways to, he doesn't do
any of that. The gospels don't give us that, they
give us a a living Christ who goes and he
(28:29):
meets these people, and he has conversation with them, and
he
Identifies their deep, deep hunger and thirst for belonging, for meaning, for, um,
you know, yeah, for fulfillment. You know, I'm thinking about
the gospel of John, right? There's the woman at the well,
there's a woman caught in adultery, there's Nicodemus, there's, you know,
(28:51):
all these different ways that Jesus is ministering, the man
at the pool of Siloam, you know, it's just every
single one of them is different.
And I remember Doctor Tim Keller, he would talk about
how every single human being has just this insatiable hunger
and thirst, and the reason is, you know, because we're
made by God, but we are separated from God. And
so we're we're searching, we're looking, we're hungering, we're trying
(29:14):
to fulfill. And so our job as, you know, witnesses
of God and of his good news is to connect
that deep hunger, hope, and desire with the
Hope and the fulfillment that only Jesus Christ, our King
and our Creator can bring. And so I would say,
get in the conversation, find out what they're hungering, thirsting for,
(29:36):
find out what they're afraid of, find out where they hurt,
and bring the good news of Jesus Christ to apply
to these areas. And, and along with that, you know,
if people are really wondering, it's sometimes it's our life
that actually provokes the question like,
What, what are you living for that I can't see? Absolutely. Sandra,
(29:56):
thank you for sending in your question through the pastor's
perspective Facebook messenger 888-564-6173. Call us after.
(30:20):
We're back on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is the number to
call us today. We've got Char Broderson and Richard Cimino
from Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa ready to answer your questions,
and we're gonna go right to Marissa, who is watching
us in Idaho on YouTube. So let's wave hi to Marissa.
Thanks for calling in today. 888-564-6173 is the number that
(30:43):
Marissa called, and you can call too. Hi, Marissa.
Marissa, are you there?
Did you press mute on your phone?
Going once.
Going twice. OK, so let me read the question off
the screen that Marissa, and we still have her on
in case she jumps on all of a sudden, but
(31:05):
she says, does it say in the Bible, if a
Christian takes their own life, but has accepted Jesus, that
they will go to heaven? Marissa says her friend took
her life a few years back.
What do you say, Char?
You know, the Bible doesn't specifically answer this question in
this way.
Um, it does tell us what is the criteria for
(31:27):
belonging to Jesus, right? Those who
Put their faith in Jesus Christ, you know, those, uh,
scripture says, who call on the name of the Lord
will be saved. And so, you know, these words that
are used there are they're final, right? That we, you know,
think about those passages in John's Gospel where Jesus is
(31:49):
talking about just the incredible security that God's people have,
you know, that
You know, my sheep are my own, you know, they
know my voice and I know them, and no one
can snatch them out of my hands, basically, you know,
Jesus kind of talks about like this triple grip, you know,
between him and the father, you write, like where I'm
(32:11):
in the Father's hands, and they're my hands, and nothing
can snatch them out. I mean, it's just like this
incredible security that the believer has in Jesus and what
he's done is we just trust him as we go
all in, like, we're with you, Jesus.
And of course, there are teachings about how we stay
and keep ourselves in the love of God, how we
stay in step with Jesus.
(32:33):
And then, the Bible really never addresses kind of on
the nose, this issue of those who take their life.
Of course, there are a few stories in the scripture
of those who have, um, you know, Judas in particular,
that is not helpful for our conversation here. There's a
few stories in the Old Testament as well. Uh, but
(32:53):
I think that this is what we find where the
scripture is silent.
You know, we have to rest on what we do know, right?
And so we've got this promise uh by Jesus, but
those who, you know, are in his grip belong to him.
No one can snatch them out of his hand. And
then I think in these areas as well, we need
(33:14):
to go back to the character of God, what we
know about God, right? That he is
Gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and abounding and steadfast love,
that he forgives sin, iniquity, and rebellion, that this is
what God does, that he is after humanity, his heart
is one to rescue and redeem. And so, what I find,
(33:37):
and I actually have uh family members who um
gave their life to Jesus, and over years and in
their case, uh, struggling with, you know, mental health and
these things ended up taking their lives. And these are
such complicated, uh, situations and I know for my cousin
(34:00):
in particular, uh, he lived a life where he was
just severely afflicted.
And I think, well, what is God's posture to somebody
who is afflicted in that way? Is it, oh well,
you gave up, so you can't be part of my kingdom. Well,
you weren't strong enough to resist, so you can't be
part of my kingdom, you know, you can't.
(34:22):
Resist these voices or this temptation, you were overcome by
these things, and so I'm gonna let you go. I
think about my gosh, get a little bit emotional here.
I think about me as a father, if that was
my kid, what would my posture be towards them if
they're struggling, right? To give up on them, to let
them go, you know, in their deepest moment of despair
(34:44):
and need, and I think, now, the Lord is gracious
and compassionate, slow to anger and a bounding and steadfast love. Yep.
And I think that, you know, even our own weakness,
God's love, you know, his faithfulness overcomes all of those things.
And so I think for those who have placed their
faith in Jesus, we have this assurance, he has got us,
(35:09):
you know, through this life, through death, and out the
other side, and we can be confident. Yeah, Richard.
Yeah, that's, that's so on point, Jar, and I, I,
I think of how many times.
We, we so quick want to, it's, it's so crazy
how quick we can be to condemn people. And if
(35:32):
they committed suicide, well, obviously it's because they had forsaken God,
they just, you know, or they, you know, it's their
own fault that they were in this condition and we
just don't understand like the the human mind is such
a fragile thing.
And, and, and there's been so many wrongs done to people,
not just the wrongs they've done, but how they've been wronged,
(35:55):
and how deeply wounded and hurt, and how they can
be so devastated by those things, and then there's just
organic biochemical things that go on. And the only thing
that I can think of, there's only one thing that
Can can leave you lost, and that is not believing
that Jesus is the Son of God and the savior
of the world. And if I believed in, uh, if
(36:17):
I believe with my heart on the Lord Jesus, I
shall be saved. And that doesn't mean that I'm gonna
be free from mental torment or deep depression that leads, like, even,
you know, um, my mother-in-law, she's got this thing called
trigeminal myalgia, and it's this horrific nerve pain in her face.
And it's so debilitating that she was just saying that
(36:40):
that when she goes, she's gone for treatment and and
she said that that physicians and people say that this
is suicide pain. Like there's actually things like not that
she's suicidal at all, you know, she's holding on and
she's so brave and so like she's so tough, I
would just be crumbling right now.
But she's this little like 4 ft tan lady that's
(37:02):
just like a she is strong and but for her
to say that she's heard that there's this kind of
pain that is, is so severe that people just can't
go on living. Like what do you do when you're
in that? Is God gonna go to you and that
like you said, is God gonna look at me and
and and say I'm sorry, but what my son.
did for you on the on the cross is now
(37:24):
we're just negating that because you could not take another
breath on this side of eternity because of the pain
that you're experiencing or the mental pain. So I think we, again,
God's a got a steadfast love. That's right. Yeah, there's
actually a story and I'm, I'm trying to remember, you know,
cause this is a prevalent idea, right, that suicide is
(37:45):
kind of this automatic entrance into hell.
Um, and I'm trying to, I was trying to look, just,
you know, does this come from some of the uh
Roman Catholic councils, uh, cause I know that Luther was
actually one of the first proponents that resisted this, uh, and,
you know, talks about this, um, because the practice was
(38:06):
with those who were, uh, who had committed suicide could
not be buried in the churchyard. Yeah, right, you remember this, yeah.
And so this is one of the things that he did.
He defied that kind of practice, and he gave this
sermon about those who are overcome by the evil one,
and basically what God's heart and posture is towards those who,
(38:28):
you know,
Give up, give in like that. And I just love
the way that he just brought back to scripture and
back to the character of God that, you know, as
Paul says, even, you know, when we are faithless, he
remains faithful, he cannot deny himself. Yeah, yeah, in fact, um,
Valerie and I, we were at um the castle in Austria,
(38:50):
and there was a group of people who'd come in
from Romania.
And they were so precious. I mean, they loved their Bibles.
They would just hold them as if this was their
greatest treasure in their life. And um Ray Bentley was
teaching a study and he he just referenced um the
the suicide of Saul and and basically said, you know,
(39:11):
well I don't think suicide is the unpardonable sin and
all of a sudden there was this undertone of people
speaking in their native language just like and and Ray's
kind of looking around and what has just happened here?
And so people began to interpret what's was being the
conversation was, and it was like.
No, you, if you commit, we believe if you commit suicide,
(39:32):
you are going to hell. And there was this this
woman who stood up and she was just in tears.
She's saying my, they would not let me bury my
husband in the in the cemetery because, so here's this
woman who was experiencing that reality that you just talked
about and there was this one old man who just
in the middle of all of it, he stood up
and everybody looked at him and he just quietly said,
(39:54):
the hidden things belong to God.
But the things that he's revealed to us belong to
us and to our children and it was just like,
end of discussion. What do you guys think you don't
understand that belongs to him, but what he's revealed to
us in Jesus and his mercy through his compassion, that's
for us and it was just like, whoa, the reality
that that there are people who still live under that burden.
(40:15):
It's amazing it is.
Marissa, thank you so much for sending in your, or
for calling in with your question. I don't know what
was going on with the phone lines there, but, uh,
we hope we, we hope you heard the answer to, uh,
to your question. 888-564-6173 is the number to call us
today here on Pastor's Perspective.
We've got Richard Cimino and Char Broderson here to answer
(40:37):
your questions at 888-564-6173. And on the line now we've
got Cindy in Walnut. Go ahead, Cindy, what is your
question for us today here on Pastor's Perspective?
Cindy
OK, so it's a phone line issue on our, no,
you're there, go ahead, Cindy.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
OK, um, I wanna hear your answer, of course, so
should I just be on my phone only?
Speaker 1 (41:04):
Uh, yes, ask your question on the phone.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
OK.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
OK. Turn off. I, I'm OK, what's your question?
Speaker 2 (41:13):
My question is,
Why have some churches, and I was talking about my
church in particular, but I won't mention the name on,
on the air. Um, I am devastated. I'm hurt because
I don't understand why.
Some Christians support hatred in the current presidency. They support
(41:36):
the current president, and to me that's just supporting hatred,
and I don't understand where Jesus is in all of this.
I have been with a particular church over 40 years
and
Before the election there were posts on Instagram about yes
we should support this person, we should support and God
(41:57):
bless him, and yes, absolutely God bless him, and I
have prayed for him, but at the same time I
have to ask God to forgive me almost on a
daily basis when I hear about the things that are
going on.
To people, the, the hateful things that are hurting people.
What happened to Jesus? What happened to Jesus's love? What
happened to love thy neighbor as thyself?
Speaker 1 (42:18):
Wait, Cindy, you're, you're asking God to forgive you for
the things that you see going on? I don't understand that.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
I'm asking God to forgive me for the hatred that
I feel toward the president. I should be praying for
him and praying for his salvation, but I feel such
anger and hatred toward him about.
All of the things that are happening that hurt people,
the hate that's being spread, the way that people are
being treated. I am in no way in favor of lawlessness.
(42:49):
I do not support a gay agenda and I'll be.
CQT, but I do support loving people, accepting them as
they are, praying for them, not judging them, and I'm
shocked and devastated that my church.
Supports this stuff if they support.
(43:13):
The president and the things that he's doing and they
did and they said so and it, it devastates me.
I can't go there anymore. I don't have a church
anymore because
Speaker 1 (43:23):
so how long have you not gone to the church now, Cindy?
Speaker 2 (43:27):
Since when all of this started.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
8 years ago, so you stopped going 8 years ago?
Speaker 2 (43:32):
No.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Let's, let's get to your, your question, Cindy. Um, yeah,
I think what we are seeing happen in our country,
and I think in an unprecedented way, uh, we are seeing,
I think, the church, um,
Or those who, you know, identify as evangelical. If you
(43:54):
actually look at the data, Barna has put some of
this out, you know, these are not actually faithful Bible reading,
Jesus loving Christians who are committed to their local church
and their local community, but those who, you know, maybe
mark that they hold to, you know, a Christian worldview,
many of them have gone the way in supporting Trump
and his whole
(44:15):
Um, cabinet and the policies that they're doing, it seemingly
in a blind kind of fashion, you know. Um, and
I think what we're seeing with that category of those
called Christian is a loss of a prophetic witness in
the culture.
And I think, you know, we in our church have
really come back again to these original documents of the
(44:37):
gospel and recognized that the, you know, apostles and those
prophets who wrote the pages of the New Testament were
actually giving a prophetic subversive witness to the people of God.
And right, you can find this language all through, like,
the religious leaders of Jesus' day are selling out to
(44:58):
the Roman authorities. We have no King but Caesar, is
what they are saying. But all the way back into
the Old Testament, Yahweh says, you belong to me. You
need to give your trust and allegiance to me. This
is actually what Jesus is calling for in the Gospels.
When he says, believe the gospel, the
(45:19):
Word there believe is a word like allegiance, go all in,
give everything to me and to my kingdom campaign. And
I think that we have lost this um clarity about
what the gospel demands of us. Jesus is king. We
are seeking a kingdom that is not of this earth.
(45:40):
It is coming down from heaven to this earth. We,
until that time, are witness.
of that kingdom. And Richard, you and I love to
talk about this. We're witnesses of the upside down kingdom
of God. You know, Cindy, in every way that you
said that we are to accept people as they are, right? Uh,
(46:01):
they're broken, they're sinners, they are confused about their identity,
their worth, their purpose in the world, and we through
God's love and through service to the world are to
show them a whole new way to be human.
We just put on displays Jesus says in the sermon
on the Mount.
God's light, God's love, God's way of peace, God's way
(46:23):
of righteousness, God's way of justice. And so I think
what we are seeing is that many Christians have basically
sold out. They are uh trading in the kingdom of
Christ for a kingdom here and now, a kingdom that,
you know, a king that protects them and gives them
the comforts and the things that they want, and it's
a closed group, you know, it's
Um, it's not for outsiders, it's only for insiders. And
(46:46):
so you can find so much of this in the
teachings of Jesus, and, you know, Richard, I can speak
for the both of us. I'll, I'll let you talk
as well, but
Uh, this stuff grieves us as well, yeah, and we
are praying that the church would have its eyes opened
and return back to its faithful witness to call, uh,
(47:07):
injustices to light and to represent God's justice and God's righteousness.
Yeah, there is, I, I think it's this in.
A conflation of.
Gospel
And the American dream, that somehow um the gospel really
(47:29):
is about the American dream, and if anything seems to
pose a threat.
To my life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.
Um, then it can't be tied to the gospel. Yeah,
and we just, rather than looking at like the, you know,
the kingdom of Jesus is nothing like the kingdoms of
(47:52):
man and everything about it challenges us to rethink the
way we view what our lives are really about and
are we truly expressing we believe that that we we
say your kingdom come, but
We're praying that so that his kingdom would be expressed
through us. And that kingdom is not democrat, it's not republic,
(48:14):
it's not independent. It's a, it's a, it's a kingdom
that's under the rule of God, and they should, people
should be able to look at our lives and say, oh,
that's what it looks like to be governed by God.
Very good, Cindy, thank you for calling in today to
Pastor's Perspective at 888-564-6173. Here's a question that was sent
(48:34):
in online. It's from Cathy in Bellingham, Washington. I believe
it's Bellingham. I don't know for sure. Can't read my
own writing, but, uh, Cathy writes, um, and Cathy's written
to us before, almost on the same topic, so I
don't know if this is something where.
She's not hearing the answer that she wants us to
tell her, so she keeps calling back. I don't know,
(48:56):
but here's what Cathy wrote. There have been many questions
lately about the sin of adultery, and I'm confused. I've
heard answers on this program that range from Jesus was
speaking to the Pharisees to, it's not a one size
fits all question to, anyway, it's not like it's the
unpardonable sin. What on earth is going on? asks Cathy.
(49:16):
It's one of the 10 commandments. No divorce, period. Full stop.
Now God was gracious to allow it for sexual immorality
because of our hard hearts, and I agree that if
there is domestic violence or abandonment, God would be gracious
to accept that. But this is turning into a free
for all. Is this position really from God, or does
it have more to do with the fact that if
(49:38):
a pastor really started holding people's feet to the fire
over it?
They would lose half of their congregations because statistically 50%
of Christian marriages end in divorce. Yeah, I just want
to address that statistically, uh, remark at the very end.
Uh, so, I was referencing earlier, um, some data put
out by BANA, and actually it addresses this, because we
(49:58):
often hear this like, oh, you know, the amount of
pornography consumption is the same in the world as it
is in the church. The, you know, divorce rate is
the same in the church as it is in the world.
This is actually not true. It's not accurate, and they've
done extensive data research, and there's a a specific book
that I was reading recently. I I cannot remember uh
(50:19):
the name of it, sorry, but
Showing, uh, you know, all these marriages were pulled, and
they actually find that, you know, Bible believing Christians who
are committed to their local church, they, they give, they serve, they, um,
you know, do outreach in their local community, these have
(50:41):
the happiest, most successful marriages. Their families are
Whole, their marriages are whole, sex and romance is fulfilling
in their lives. They all say, right, it's all these
like amazing statistics, you know, and divorce rates for this
category are actually, you know, so, so very low. So
we throw out these statistics all the time, and I've
(51:02):
been guilty of this too, so that's why I'm, you know,
I'm talking about it. Uh, and so I think we just,
we need to be clear about that. And then this
is really interesting. I'm actually teaching on this very thing
this coming Sunday. So I find it funny that like,
oh yeah, here we go.
Um, but I think one of the, the things that
I find interesting about her, um, issue here is this
free for all, and this is actually the very thing
(51:25):
that Jesus is addressing in the Jewish culture of that day,
because divorce had become this hotly debated thing, and it
basically become a free for all, to the extent that
the religious leaders
and the disciples are shocked at how conservative Jesus is
in his view of what marriage is all about. From
(51:46):
the beginning, he says, it was not so, but it
was written, you know, therefore, a man shall leave his
father and mother and be joined to his wife, and
the two shall become one flesh. What God has joined
together let no man separate.
And so, Jesus has this vision, you know, from the
biblical text, that marriage is monogamous and it is a
lifelong partnership. You are no longer two entities, you are one, right?
(52:11):
This is the biblical vision partnership that God has given us,
and I think that part of the issue is, you know,
we're kind of asking like, how far can we go,
rather than asking, what does God really want for money.
marriage. And what God wants is the same thing that the,
(52:31):
you know, Westminster catechism tells us that God wants for
human beings. The purpose of humanity, or as it says,
the chief end of humans is to glorify God and
to enjoy him forever. This is the purpose of marriage.
Two human beings come together and discover together how do
(52:51):
we glorify God and enjoy him.
And I love this idea, and I actually got this
from Lewis, but, you know, I was quoting this yesterday
from the weight of glory, that every single human being
is created by God and is meant to either rule
with him or is headed to this destination of, you know,
being this horrific thing that we only meet in our nightmares,
(53:12):
and he says, we are each helping 1 to 1
destination or the other. And you just realize, oh my gosh,
as a husband, as a partner to this woman,
I am either helping her to this everlasting splendor or
everlasting horror. This is the stewardship and responsibility I have
(53:34):
to call out positively, the glory and beauty of Jesus
in my wife to see her thrive in her life,
and that's her responsibility to my life as well.
That we would fully grow into the people that God
has created us to be. And what I find is
that most marriages, um, unfortunately, we don't have a bigger
(53:58):
vision than ourselves, our own comfort, our own financial state
or happiness. And I think, man, the church, we need
to get this beautiful vision before us of what God
He intends our marriages to be. He wants to put
his good news of his reign, of his love, of
his faithfulness on display through our marriages, and he wants
(54:21):
us to enjoy him, to enjoy the God who is
the flourishing God, the God who is the loving God,
the God who is the peacemaking God. So, 45 seconds, Richard.
Amen. Sorry, Rich. Oh, that's, it was great. It was great.
All right, uh, who was that? Cathy, thank you for
(54:41):
sending in your question through the Kwave.com pastor's perspective page,
and we are out of time on today's episode. Thank
you so much for listening today and for watching us
as well. We're going to archive today's episode on Facebook, YouTube,
Apple Podcasts, and Spotify.
And then we will be back tomorrow with another opportunity
for you to call in and ask your questions of
(55:02):
our panel of pastors. Today it was Brian Broderson and
Richard Cimino from Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa. Who's gonna be
on tomorrow? We'll find out tomorrow here on Pastor's Perspective.
God bless you guys.
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