July 24, 2025 • 56 mins
Pastors' Perspective is a one-hour call-in program where listeners can call in and get answers to questions about the Bible, Christianity, family, and life. The program is live Monday through Friday from 3:00 PM - 4:00 PM Pacific. You can call 888-564-6173 to ask your questions.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez,
and we're gonna be here for the next hour to
answer the questions you might have about the Bible, the
Christian faith, just about anything that's on your mind, how
to live out the Christian life. Give us a call
at 888-564-6173. Hope you all are doing good. Give us
a call, check in, tell us that you're alive. It
(00:39):
seems like everybody's been dying in the last few days.
Brian Broderson, are you OK?
I'm here. Chuck or uh Chuck, Phil, Phil Metzger, are
you OK?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I'm OK. I'm alive. Be sick this week, but I'm alive.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Oh good, man. What a week. It's been crazy. So Phil, did,
did you actually have COVID? Is that, yeah, is that
what you had? Yeah,
Speaker 2 (01:01):
yeah, I know. I thought that was, I thought that
was
Speaker 1 (01:04):
over.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
It's 2020. I had it during the pandemic and I
had it really bad. I was sick for like 12 days.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Were you really?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yeah, like kind of pretty bad, like 6 days, like
over 103 fever, pretty rough. Good. And then, um, so
this time when I got it, it was, it didn't
last but a few days, but still I knew right
away what I
had.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Really, so you had kind of like the symptoms are
very similar.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Just that like it just saps everything out of me
and immediately like fevers and like severe body aches, just
all the things that I, I had the last time
I knew it, man. It was rough.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Now did you know there was that 11 sort of
phenomenon that that many, many people experienced which like the
taste thing. Did you, was that ever part of it
for you where you lost your taste or or smell,
sense of smell smell, yeah, smell and taste.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
The first couple weeks when I had COVID, the first time, yes.
And then it came back and I heard that the
younger you are, the longer it lasted. So I was
kind of disappointed at how quickly mine came back because my,
my daughter lost hers for like 6 months. No joke.
She couldn't like food taste for like 6 months.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, and I, and I've actually known some people who
it it is like permanently altered their taste, like things
just don't taste like they should or you know, like
they used to.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Which I mean, the, the upside is I wasn't hungry
for the last 4 days. I haven't eaten and I mean,
you
Speaker 1 (02:31):
know, there's a,
there, there that is. There is something positive there. We can,
we can always find something good in everything. That's right.
You
Speaker 2 (02:40):
gotta find, you gotta find the good in everything, you know.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Well,
my, my wife had the stomach flu.
Uh, 24 hour kind of a deal apparently. So she's
up back to her normal self today, but she, she
is saying that she feels a little queasy still, but, but,
you know, I'm gonna get on a plane here in
a couple of days, so I'm just like, I'm doing
(03:03):
everything to stay away from all that stuff. Oh yeah,
don't get sick. No, whether you're jumping on a plane
or not, yeah, or off a plane or
Speaker 2 (03:12):
but there's nothing worse than being sick when you travel, seriously,
it's like.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Uh yeah, I travel, I traveled home my last trip
when I came home, I was sick, um, yeah.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, you know, you, you forget.
When you get sick, you suddenly realize like, oh gosh, yeah, sick.
I hate being sick. Sick is so miserable, you know, you, I,
(03:38):
I mean if you're not sick often, you kind of
just forget how, how bad you can actually feel.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
See, and that's the thing, I don't get sick very
often like I'm, I'm generally healthy, so when I do,
it's like I go big or go home and I
go big on that.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
It's just.
I do
Speaker 2 (03:54):
it
Speaker 1 (03:54):
right,
right. All right, guys. 888-564-6173 is the number to call,
and you can also send in your questions online. That's what, uh,
this person did, uh, sent in a question regarding Hebrews 10:26.
Let me read it really quick for those who don't
know it. For if we sin willfully after we have
received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains
(04:16):
a sacrifice for sins. So, uh, this person writes my question.
It is about this passage, I heard a pastor teach
that if we keep deliberately sinning against God, there will
be no longer any sacrifice to cover for this sin,
and God will leave you. This has troubled me a
lot because 10 years ago I backslid against God. I
(04:36):
was living for the world, got curious with psychics, and
I've seen evil spirits in the house after that.
I've realized what I have done was so wrong and
promised myself to never do it again. I could not
even understand why I did that. It was 10 years ago.
I asked God to please forgive me, and I had
forgotten about it, went about my life, but 2 years ago,
bad things started happening in my life, and I've probably
(04:59):
suppressed it in my mind that it resurfaced and keeps
replaying in my head of the terrible thing that I
had done against God. That's why this, uh, that, that's
why this is the payment I had to endure.
I have rededicated my life 2 years ago, and God
knows how I deeply regret that sin, and I'm asking,
is it really possible that God had left me and
(05:21):
no more amount of sacrifice will cover for this sin?
I know I've committed the ultimate sin, and I keep
asking God for His forgiveness. I promise God every day
that I will live for Him, and I do, but
I just don't feel Him any more. Am I too
far gone? God knows in my heart how I deeply
regret that time in my life.
Please pray for God to please give me another chance. Phil,
(05:46):
what would you say to this person?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
I mean, there's so much there, Brian, and uh so
I'll share some things. Brian, I'm sure you got more
you wanna add into there. Uh, let me just start
by saying, uh, this dude, oh, I didn't, I don't
know if it's a dude, it sounded like a dude,
but maybe cause you read it, Brian, was it a
guy or a girl? It's a woman, it's a woman, OK,
this gal.
I'm so sorry for you that your, your, your takeaway
(06:09):
from all this is that you've committed a sin that's in, uh,
that is unforgivable. That's, it's just not true. The, the
Bible talks about
Sinning in such a way where you just say, I
don't want God. I don't care about God. I'm not
interested in God. I don't want forgiveness. But here you are,
(06:29):
this person writing in saying, I, I am so deeply
sorry for what I've done, and I'm asking God to
forgive me. You have to know, and I, I, I
wish that every, every preacher around the world would make
this so clear to people. The Bible tells us that
he is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins.
He wants to forgive you. That's why Jesus came and
(06:50):
died on a cross. It, it, it, he didn't come
and then die on a cross so that he could
hold something over you 2000 years later, and make you
feel bad and make you feel like you are unworthy.
The reality is, is that grace has never been based
on worth or unworth. You're not any more unworthy than
you could be worthy. God in His grace, says, you
(07:12):
can receive my forgiveness. You just repent of your sins. So,
No, you have not committed a sin that is unforgivable.
A sin that is unforgivable is a sin you won't
repent of, and you're repenting. And so that, that, that
verse isn't talking to you and saying that there's no
more sacrifice for you because you're not willing to repent
(07:32):
when you're willing to repent. When you're unwilling to repent.
Then there is no forgiveness because you're not willing to
repent of your sins. So, I'd love for this person
to know that they are, don't be in the bondage.
If you feel like you're not feeling God, I'm gonna
guess a little bit of that is because you believe
that you can't feel God because what you've done is
(07:53):
impossible to feel God. And so you're asking, you're asking
for something that
It's a double negative there. God wants to forgive you,
let him forgive you. Move forward. The Bible says that
you have his forgiveness through the cross, so he's absolutely
there and he's absolutely for you,
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Pastor Brian.
Yeah, that, that's so good, Phil. Um, and, um, the
only thing I would add to it is not really
to add to any of the conclusion that Phil drew,
but to take you back to the biblical text that
you were referring to and the sermon that you heard, um,
Hebrews is a book that is written for, for one
(08:34):
primary reason.
And it's to warn people who have embraced Jesus as
their Messiah. These are, these are Jewish people, that's why
the book's called the Hebrews, um, to warn them not
to leave their trust in the Messiah and to go
back to their former, um, religious system that has no
(08:57):
ability to actually save them.
So in in Hebrews, you have a series of warnings,
and they're all warning about the same thing. If we
willfully sin after we've received from the knowledge of the truth,
the willful sin there is one particular sin, that's the
one he's talking about. It's the sin of departing from
Christ and going back to uh the old system that
(09:20):
can't bring salvation. So like Phil's saying and like you stated.
You're not doing that. You're like, I, I want forgiveness.
I want Jesus. I, I blew it and I, I
don't want, so you're, you're good. You're the, the person
who's doing what Hebrews is warning about is not calling
(09:44):
up on a Christian radio program because they feel worried
about their salvation.
The person who's doing what, uh, the Hebrew author is
warning about is the person who's kind of like, yeah,
I'm not really worried about that. I'm, I'm gonna go
do my thing and I'm not really concerned about, uh, Jesus,
(10:06):
so you're not that person.
What, uh, did we address the the part where uh
she said about the evil spirits that she thinks she's
seen in her home since you know, I mean.
What whatever you saw or thought you saw, don't even
worry about it. I mean, you're, you know, like, like Phil,
(10:26):
when he was quoting from First John, if you confess
your sins, God is faithful and just to forgive us,
to cleanse us. So your, your sins are forgiven, you're cleans,
there's no residual like, you know, demon kind of thing
that's gonna, gonna hold on to you. The only way
that's gonna happen is if you stay in your sin.
Then you set yourself up for harassment by the devil and,
(10:50):
you know, bondage from the devil, but that's again, that's
not you. So, um, you can just whatever that was
that't matter and you said, you know, like this all
happened 10 years ago, then you said 2 years ago
things started going wrong.
You know, we could, we could talk to hundreds of
Christians today who would tell you, you know, 2 years ago,
my life just started going, you know, all kinds of
(11:11):
problems and difficulties and struggles, and guess what? That's the
Christian life. The Christian life has challenges. And then the
other part like you were saying, Phil, you know, the,
the idea that, well, I don't feel close to God
or I don't hear God.
We go through those kinds of seasons, and sometimes, like
Phil was saying, if you're, if you're thinking you're not
(11:32):
gonna hear from God because you've sinned in a way
that he's not talking to you, then you kind of just,
it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy. So, stop thinking that and just,
you know, the Lord, the Lord in his time, he, he,
he'll give you what you need to know that.
Um, everything's OK, but
(11:53):
Rather than just waiting for that to happen, just take
him at his word. This is what he said, You confessed,
he's faithful, you're forgiven. Move on.
Mm
Can we talk a little bit though about self-fulfilling prophecies
to make sure we understand what that means? It's not,
is it a as you think that's gonna happen, like
(12:13):
the power of positive thinking or if you, it's the
power of negative thinking in this case. OK, so yeah, yeah,
you're thinking like the like the worst case scenario.
And then anything that happens, you read it into, well, I, I,
that's just what I thought was gonna happen, you know, God,
God's not with me and that's why I got a
flat tire and God's not with me, and that's why I,
(12:33):
I didn't get the raise at the job and somebody
else did and God's not with me and that's why
my kids are, um, rebelling and, you know, all the
different kinds of things, the negative things that come up.
If we're predisposed in our minds to think that.
We're under this kind of a judgment, then everything we
(12:54):
see that's negative, we're just gonna interpret it as, yep, see,
there it is. I knew it. God's against me.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
I would even say, I mean, I love that, and
it cause I don't love it. I hate it. I
hate that we do that to ourselves, but I, I
was thinking too like this is like original sin like
demonic kind of stuff because what was the devil trying to,
he was telling Eve, well, did God really mean that?
Did he really want that? Does he really care about that?
It's and this is what we do to ourselves literally
in 2025 we're like, we see the
(13:25):
It's not just that we see the negative, but we
believe as Christians we can even believe like God has
like God doesn't have good intentions, which is the orig,
you know, a part of that original sin like is
God really for you? Does God really love you? Does
God really care?
And the truth is, is like, you know, yeah, you
got one flat tire, you could have gotten 4 and
you only got 1. So look at that, you know,
or maybe that raise would have moved you, you know,
(13:48):
had you gotten the raise, God knew you weren't gonna
like stay dependent upon him. I mean, there's just so
many factors that we're so unaware of, you know, and
yet
We only see things from this one perspective. And I
do think that the, the, it is self-fulfilling a lot
of times. Like, if I'm already looking down because I'm
discouraged and then I run into a tree and I'm like, see,
(14:08):
that's what happens. It's like, yeah, but you were looking down,
but that's what happens,
Speaker 1 (14:12):
you
Speaker 2 (14:12):
know, and it's just, it's a vicious cycle, man.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Good conversation, you know, just one last thing, let me
just say, what's our caller's name? I mean, anonymous, OK.
Um, here, here's a thing to know, and, you know,
maybe some of our other listeners, this will speak to you. Um,
you know, the devil is not, um,
(14:38):
He's not afraid to use scripture against us, and we
know that we, he tried to use scripture against Jesus.
I mean, you know, the devil's quoting scriptures to Jesus
like trying to trip them up. So these passages, especially
in Hebrews, you know, these warning passages, uh, the passage
in chapter 6, you know, if they fall away, it's
(15:00):
impossible to renew them to repentance and so forth, um.
The devil, he will use those passages and try to
convince us that that's who we are, but we're not
those people. And, and the, the way to know, like
very simply, is like we said initially, your
(15:22):
bothered by this. You've asked forgiveness. You're writing into Christians
to ask for help. People who actually commit the sins
that are being talked about don't do that, right? They're
going on their merry way, leaving Jesus behind and not
thinking twice about it, yeah.
So
Noni, thank you for writing in with your question. Noni,
(15:43):
as in anonymous. Very cool. Kwave.com, the pastor's perspective page.
Thanks for writing in your question. Let's go to the
phones now, 888-564-6173. We will start with Curtis, who's calling
in from Temecula, listening on FM 107.9 K wave. Hello, Curtis.
(16:03):
Hey, good afternoon and thank you for taking my call. Yeah,
how can we help? I went into, uh, I went
in to donate some blood yesterday at a Mormon church,
and Jesus Christ's paintings were all over the place and
talking to Mormons in general from my Christian church, talking
to Mormons.
They claim that Jesus Christ is Lord. They are convinced
(16:25):
that he is God. Yet I understand that he is
just a go to them. He is a created being.
Who did the Mormons think Jesus Christ actually is and
why is it a sect or a cult? And my
last question is quickly, why do they call themselves the
(16:46):
Church of Latter-day Saints?
All right, Brian, yeah, good, good questions. Um, well, I,
I think right up front we should acknowledge that there
are I think probably a fair number of of Mormon
people who
They, they say that and they genuinely mean it. They like,
(17:10):
well no, you know, Jesus is the Lord, uh, because
a lot of them don't even know exactly what the
doctrine of their church is. So in Mormon doctrine, you
have Jesus as a created being, you have God as
a a being who started out as a man.
(17:32):
So God, according to Mormonism, used to be a man
and now he's been elevated to God. And as God
once was, so are we now, and as God has
become so shall we. That's a quote from a paraphrase
from Brigham Young. Brigham Young was like the second, you know,
(17:53):
kind of leading figure in Mormonism back in the 1800s.
And um,
So in in the in the doctrine of Mormonism, you
have Jesus as the spirit brother with Lucifer. So, I mean,
that right there should tell you, OK, that sounds problematic. Um, so,
(18:16):
you know, scripture, of course, teaches that there's there's one
God that that one God exists in three persons, the Father,
the Son, and the spirit.
And of course, the Bible teaches that Jesus is the, um,
he's the second person of the triune God. He's the
eternal God, he's always been God. Never was a time
(18:37):
he wasn't God or ever will there be a time
that he isn't God. And so the very nature of
Jesus and God are are quite confusing in Mormonism.
And the Latter Day Saints is the the idea that
Joseph Smith recovered the true gospel and everything uh that
(19:00):
went before was false. So when Joseph Smith had his
supposed vision of the angel Moroni.
Who came to him and gave him the tablets. Um,
the message was that all of the existing Christian churches
had apostasized. They'd all lost their way. Now, he was
(19:21):
going to be the one to restore the true church.
So that's the idea behind the latter-day saints. They're the,
they're the saints uh of the, actually, uh, some groups
of Mormons in the early days, they refer to themselves
as like a the restoration church. So it was a restoring.
Uh, to original Christianity, but of course it's not original
(19:41):
Christianity because that's not the teaching of the Bible. Everything
you always wanted to know about Mormonism, but we're afraid
to ask. That is like the most comprehensive answer I've
ever heard, Brian. There's lots, there's a lot more to it. Curtis,
is that helpful at all?
Very helpful, very educational, very enlightening. I appreciate your insight.
(20:03):
All right. And there's some, you know, there's some great,
I mean, we're just, you know, it's the tip of
the iceberg. There's some great materials that you can pick
up that'll give you a deeper dive if, if you
care to go there. You know, I think sometimes that we,
you know, I, I think.
In the last, you know, 15 years or so, um, maybe,
maybe even a bit longer. It's almost like the new
(20:25):
atheism first and the and the resurgence of Islam, they
sort of eclipsed, you know, you kind of forget that
there's Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons, because all this other stuff
is going on, but it's like they're still alive and well,
they're still knocking on doors and riding their bikes and
making disciples and so.
(20:46):
Yeah, we, we've got to be, and like I said,
a lot of them.
They don't know what their church believes, and they just think, oh,
of course I believe in Jesus. I, of course he's
the Lord, but you, you have to dig deeper and ask, well,
what is, what does that actually mean? Yeah.
Curtis, you might want to call the chapel store at
Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, and uh they could tell you
about some great resources that are available to read. Their
(21:08):
phone number is 714-540-2941.
888-564-6173 is the number to call right now though, if
you have a question for Pastors Brian Broderson or Phil Metzger.
Brian's a pastor at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa. Phil's the
pastor of Calvary San Diego, and, uh, here's a call
from Katie in San Diego. Hey, Katie, thanks for calling
(21:31):
in today. How can we help?
Hi, pastors, how are you? Good. Thank you.
Good, thank you. Team Marissa, cowgirl up. Um, OK, so
I have a question. 3 years ago, we asked this
supposedly upstanding liar of the community, um, as Christians to
(21:52):
stop harassing me, and we were trying to avoid going
to court, right? So now we're at the point where
it's completely enraging and bothering our faith. I, I don't
even want to pray, OK? I'm having a hard time.
So, um, my question is how would you say.
Um, we made the wrong choice about self-defense monetarily now.
(22:19):
1 Corinthians 6:10 11.
Mhm.
So this person was harassing you, but you chose not
to deal with it with the courts or what?
Well, I did talk to the city mayor about him
and what he was doing at the time, and I
(22:39):
talked to them about it, hoping they would figure it out. OK. Now,
just to go a little bit deeper here, um,
Uh, why would you talk to the mayor about, I mean,
that seems like, uh, you know, a whole another level of,
(22:59):
of some. Because it was really, it's really complicated to, uh, get, uh,
him convicted. They, it's a lot of disbelieving, um, about
what he's actually been doing. Is he like a, like
a business figure in the community or?
Is he a, he's breaking code. Well, does he hold
(23:21):
office and violating codes, um, property codes and um. Yeah. Uh,
unpaid bills were unregistered vehicles. Mm.
So when it comes to lawsuits and taking people to court,
is it the Christian thing to do to, to just
pray about it? And is that, is that your question, Katie,
(23:44):
kind of?
Well, he's basically harassing me and stalking me for ongoing
3 years about it now. And his wife is unaware
about it, and I've been trying to get her attention
because I don't have her phone number anymore. And it's
been a long, arduous task of trying to get her
attention and her awareness about the whole ordeal. Mhm. Well, yeah,
(24:06):
I mean, it, you know, it sounds on one level
like you're, this thing has kind of consumed your life.
And then, you know, when you said you don't even
want to pray anymore, that to me sounds like this
is taking up way too much space in your heart
and mind, and you sound frustrated, you sound like, uh,
(24:28):
you know, at every
At every angle, you're kind of just not able to
to make any forward progress. Um, I would advise you
to just back off and turn it over to the
Lord and and let God
You know, take it the burden from you and refocus
(24:52):
your heart and mind on him and what it is
that he wants to do in your life through this,
what it is that he wants to do, you know, as,
as you move ahead, because it just sounds like your,
your whole life is consumed by this thing that it
also sounds like you're, you're not having any luck doing
anything about it.
(25:13):
So there are times when, you know, actually the passage
in 1 Corinthians is interesting because Paul at one point there,
he says, why not just be defrauded? So there's a
point where he says, just let it go. It's kind
of like Jesus said, if, um, you know, if somebody
sues you and wants to take away your coat, give
(25:35):
them your cloak as well.
So there there's a point where all of this, not
to say that we can never be in a lawsuit,
because sometimes you end up in a lawsuit. What Paul
is arguing for in 1 Corinthians 6 is that Christians
shouldn't be taking their problems before the secular courts, they
should be able to work them out. Um,
(25:58):
Doesn't sound like you're dealing with a Christian, so that
exempts you from that there, but I don't know, Phil,
you got any
thoughts?
Speaker 2 (26:07):
No, that's, that's where I was gonna go with this
is like that whole idea in Corinthians is about believers,
and this doesn't sound like a case of believers at all.
It just sounds like
You know, it's hard to know kind of what harass
means exactly without us getting all the details. I think that,
you know, is it personal, is it business? is it financial,
is it, uh, yeah, whatever. So it sounds to me
like it's, I mean, I, Brian, I think that's great advice.
(26:30):
Like there's things that I can let my mind, I
can give so much power to, it just ruins me.
And I think Katie, what we're saying is we'd hate
for that to continue for you like.
You have a life that does, like, you don't need
to be consumed with that. Now what's unlawful or it's illegal,
like report it to the police, that's not, there's nothing
(26:50):
wrong with doing that. Um, I'm not sure it goes
right to like politicians, but I think just to your, your,
you know, criminal courts or whatever, call the call the police,
let them be involved, that's, there's nothing, I think as
Christians we need to be OK to do that, especially
as it relates to, you know, civil or criminal matters,
but yeah, I agree, man, if, if you don't.
(27:12):
If there's any way that you can release this into
the hand of God, trust the Lord, you should do
that because it, when you say things like, it's taking
away my ability to pray, you're calling pastor's perspective. That
our perspective is that's really, that that concerns us so much. Like,
call the cops, get people involved, whatever. But when you say, man,
(27:33):
I can't even pray to God anymore, I'm, I'm more
worried about you than I am about this dude that's
being harassing.
You know, um, we wanna see you get back, you know,
in a place where you can talk to the Lord,
you can have peace in your life. God promises peace,
he offers peace. Um, we don't solve those, you know,
kind of civil cases or, you know, can't help you
(27:54):
with the guy harassing. But God wants you to have
peace in that, so I, I definitely.
I, I hate for you to give that up to
a person, and that's what you're doing. You're giving up, uh, uh,
your peace with God over this person, and nobody's worth that.
No one is worth
that.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Yeah. And you know, the, the, the thing that, I mean, it's, it's,
this is a hard thing to handle, but the fact
is there are injustices that occur in the world, and
we might be the victim of injustice at times.
And this is where it really comes to a place of,
of really having to trust the Lord because, you know,
(28:29):
you've exhausted all of the options. I mean, you know,
you think of people I've, I, you know, had seen
many times over the years where, you know, somebody goes
to court and it's like, wow, that just seems like
the exact opposite decision of what should have come down
based on the facts, but that's what it is. So
what do you, what do you do about that at
(28:50):
that point?
Well, you know, you, you go back to Jesus who
talk about an injustice. I mean, he suffered the greatest
injustice of all time, so he knows what we're going
through and he calls us at those times to just say, Lord,
I don't get it. This doesn't seem like it should
(29:10):
go this way, but I'm gonna trust you.
And maybe we'll see it get sorted out in this life.
Maybe we won't, maybe we'll see it get sorted out later.
It will get sorted, but God is the one who
will determine when.
I think it gets confusing too when we're wondering and
like Katie said, is it the Christian thing to do?
(29:32):
Do we turn the other cheek? Do we lay down
our life? I mean, yeah, but it doesn't mean that
we don't take the, you know, like Paul, a great
example with Paul is he's a Roman citizen. So on
certain occasions, he's like, hey, I'm a citizen, that's a violation.
My citizens' rights. So I'm gonna stand against that. And
then at other times he's like, well, you know, what
can I do? Katie, thanks for your phone call. We've
(29:53):
got to take a break here on Pastor's Perspective. What
do you want to ask Brian Broderson and Phil Metzger?
They're here for another half hour at 888-564-6173.
(30:17):
Hey, you're back, and so are we. This is Pastor's Perspective.
I'm Brian Perez, Brian Broderson and Phil Metzger here to
answer your questions on this lovely Thursday afternoon. 888-564-6173 is
our number. And let's go now to Laguna Woods. Here
is Robert, who listens to Pastor's perspective on the Kwave app.
(30:37):
Thank you, Robert, for downloading the app and for calling
in today with a follow-up question. Go ahead.
Well, absolutely.
I'd like to thank you guys. I'd like to thank
you guys for doing such a wonderful job. I love
the show. I listen to it typically at 3 a.m.
in the morning when I'm coming into town because I
work in Testing bike traffic and stuff, but it's a
(30:59):
great show and, um, and I also think I Costa
Mesa is a great place because I go, I've been
going to cele celebrate recovery there since last summer when
I went to that, um, you had your annual meeting
the first time in.
Years and I heard about some recovery, so we can
go there and I really appreciate them sponsoring that. It's
a wonderful group. If you're trying to recover from any
(31:21):
kind of dependency or addiction, I and you have time
on a Tuesday night at 6:30, I highly recommend going there.
So that being said, I, I wanted to shout out
to them. But my question has to do, I heard, uh,
a lady called in a couple of days ago. I
know her name, but I'm not gonna mention her name.
And she talked about how she needed forgiveness for hating
(31:44):
Trump and that all, and I've heard, this is what
I heard, that everybody that um supports Trump is hate
is full of hate.
And um,
And I'm thinking this is like, OK, no specific mention
of anything. That's, that's, that's a great way to go. Oh,
they're just full of hate. Well, let's not talk about
(32:05):
Hamas and who's supporting Hamas in this country, OK? And
let's not, let's pretend they're not a hate group who's
attacking Israel and who's protecting, and that would be President Trump.
So but what what bothered me is I didn't hear
the pastors push back on this at all, and I'm
just trying to figure out.
Is the is, is we're accepting the fact that everybody
who supports President Trump who goes to church is a hater.
(32:29):
Uh, well, I don't think so. I mean, I'm certainly not,
and I know that, you know, we have people in
our church that do support President Trump. And, um, but I,
but I think sometimes, I think part of it honestly
is that some people, um, I kind of almost blindly
support Trump, um, regardless of, of what he does, and
(32:52):
I think that that can be a problem too.
And so I think, uh, you know, we should acknowledge, uh,
when he does something good, and I think we should
also be able to say, well, you know, no, that
that was not good uh that what what he did there.
And so I think, uh, well, you know, with the
immigration thing, it's such a heated, it's so heated because
(33:16):
there's so much um emotionally that's going on with it.
And you can understand it. So the, the very complicated
situation of trying to remedy uh a huge immigration mess
in this country and I think uh my own opinion
is that, you know, we do have laws, we do
have borders, uh, we do have the right way to
(33:38):
get in the country and then we have wrong ways
to get in the country, and that needs to be
put right. But when you see
You know, some of the way that that it has
Kind of rolled out, I think you can also recognize
that no, that that's a problem right there, and they
they need to come up with some better, better strategies
(34:01):
on how to, you know, humanely do what they're doing.
And I think the criticism um comes from some of the,
the treatment that
Is, is just not, uh, you know, as a Christian,
you look at some of this treatment, you think, you know,
no that that's not right, you know, we shouldn't treat
(34:22):
people like that regardless. People say, oh well, they're here illegally,
they're breaking the law. OK, uh, you know, but if
you broke the law, do you wanna be, you know,
how do you want to be handled if you break
the law? So.
Anyway, it's a complicated thing. Phil, you're down at the border.
You've dealt with a lot of this stuff. If you
look out the window there, can you see Tijuana or
Speaker 2 (34:43):
actually from the other window, yes you can every night
I can see Tijuana from my, from my house, yeah, uh,
Speaker 1 (34:50):
and
you had, you had, yeah, you know, all, all of
those Ukrainians that came to the border and all of
that stuff. So
Speaker 2 (34:56):
yeah, I mean, you know, anybody that's like when you
see this from the uh a macro perspective on the
news only, it is easier to have kind of
Uh, rigid opinions, and I, and I actually I really
totally do understand that. The more involved, I think especially
when you get involved like as a Christian.
You, you, there's there's an empathy that we should have,
(35:19):
that we just say, gosh, it's not quite as clear
and as simple as it made it seem on my
news channel at night, on my couch. There's a lot
more that's going on, but I, I even wanted to
just say, like, even just besides that one issue, I
just wanted to kind of remind everybody too that like,
You know, cause I think for Robert maybe the feeling
(35:40):
was this woman was saying things and nobody defended Trump
in that moment on the show, and I, I just
want to be clear that like
Two things. Number one, as pastors are, we're, we're trying
to encourage people where they're at in the Lord. It,
it is, whether they are, whichever way they vote or
view things, we want people, I mean, our, our end
(36:03):
goal for everything is that people would just get deeper
in a relationship with Jesus.
That's the most important thing that we do. And then too,
there is a there is a place where I think
is the church. We, we kind of wanna, and it
it it's been lost, but there's a, there's value to
regaining that role that the church should have as being
(36:24):
we're on the out there in a sense we're on
the outside of a lot of these matters, so that
there's moments when we
We might sound extremely conservative in some of our views,
and I mean that in a in a political way.
On the other hand, there might be other moments, other
issues that come up that we might sound extremely liberal,
and I mean that in a political sort of way. My,
(36:46):
my point is, is that the church has never been
a Republican or a Democrat. We're not binary. We wanna
see people know Jesus, we want to see people grow
closer to the Lord. And so we, I do agree
that there's a problem with like
There's either this, like, it's either you have to love
someone or hate them, and that that's a very, very
unhealthy sad way to live life. We're not, we're not
(37:09):
called that way, you know. The only person that deserves
that allegiance in the Bible is very clear and that
is Jesus.
Um, you're either for him or against him. Other than that,
you know, we're all just like human beings. So, um,
but these are such touchy, difficult things that cannot be
just like, there's not a, there's not one catchphrase that
solves these problems, and so we have to be OK
(37:31):
with that. And the other thing that just my last
thoughts of that is, gosh, I've been so I've been
looking at like just different people that have different ministries
than I do, and I realized how easy it is
to look at their ministry and go man.
Uh, if, if I wanted to be negative, Nancy, you know,
in this, it's like, I can't believe they're doing that.
I can't believe they're saying that. And then I realized, well,
(37:52):
maybe they have a different ministry. They're reaching different people
than I am. On the other hand, I hope people
would give me flexibility. Like you said, I live in
a border town. I want to be extremely thoughtful to people,
especially as it relates to immigration issues. And I hope,
I hope other Christians will give me space for that.
I haven't moved away from the gospel of Jesus.
(38:13):
Give me space to do ministry in as much as
we give other space, so we need to not see
things from that kind of political perspective alone, but really
from a from a Christian one. Yeah,
Speaker 1 (38:23):
good, good, and I think, I think a better um
negative Ned would be better than negative because yeah,
Speaker 2 (38:30):
I couldn't think of a good name.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Yeah, I get it.
Negative Ned. Don't be negative Ned. All right, uh, Robert,
thank you for your phone
call today.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Downer Dan, let's downer
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Dan. There you go.
That works too. Rudy and Hemetz, thank you for calling
Pastors Perspective. What's your question for the pastors today?
Um, my, uh, I have a question, but first of
all I wanna thank you for, um, what you guys
do and everything, and I wanna say I
Speaker 2 (39:00):
wanna
Speaker 1 (39:00):
comment
Speaker 2 (39:00):
on
Speaker 1 (39:01):
your, um, your little moment there about the, about the Mormons.
That was excellent nutshell, you said so much that was awesome. um, anyway,
my question is this, um.
The Seventh Day Adventist or rather Sabbath keepers, um, basically
I simply just wanna know what is it they do
on a Sabbath? A 7th Day Adventist or or Jews?
(39:26):
No, uh, Seventh Day Adventist and Sabbath keepers like here
in the country, I mean, I mean, there seems to
be a group that they call they're called Sabbath Keepers.
They're not really 1/7 Day Adventist, but you know they
keep it and um.
And my brother just changed and started doing that too, uh,
(39:47):
but I didn't, it's been a long time and I
just started I didn't bother to think to ask him,
but I wanna know, do you guys know what they
do because, uh, I went on a, I studied a
little bit on it, I read up on it and
and someone said they don't worship, they rest. Yeah. So yeah,
I was gonna say they don't do a whole lot.
I think they just kind of, uh, lay around.
(40:11):
I don't really know. I don't know what they do.
I know Seventh Day Adventist worship on, on, you know,
Saturday is their day to worship. Um, yeah, I'm, I'm
not sure about the, the Sabbath keepers. I haven't really
heard much about them.
It sounds like they're just kicking back.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Yeah,
Speaker 1 (40:31):
chilling. Um, so yeah, I was just wondering, now, are
you more asking in general like how we should observe
the Sabbath or what do you mean?
Well, um, I, I wanna know if, if they worship
on the Sabbath or they make it, um, it's holy
to them it's very, very special and I just was
wondering what is it they do, um, like I said
(40:53):
that one person said they they don't worship, they, they rest. Yeah.
Or rather maybe that's what I heard from a scholar
saying what the Israelites were ordered to do, not really worship.
And maybe the rest is part of the worship. Yeah, yeah,
and the Israelites, that, that is, that is a point
that I think is often overlooked that it was a day,
(41:13):
it was a day of rest, it was a day,
you know, everybody had a break, you weren't going out
in the field to, um, sow or to harvest and
you weren't um.
You weren't, you know, building a barn or or whatever you,
you were resting on that day. Um, there, there are
obviously some places where the Sabbath includes a worship component
(41:35):
to it, but I think just the, the weekly routine was,
and you know, always to remember that the Lord created
the earth in 6 days and on the 7th day
he rested. So, so God's in the picture, but you
know what people do today, uh, who knows? And I,
and I mean.
As Christians, as long as we're not looking for a,
(41:57):
a justification to keeping the Sabbath, we can figure out
ways that are gonna be uh healthy, help us develop
healthy rhythms of rest and family time and things like that,
and I know some Christians who who focus on that.
Uh, it, the problem is when you start making it
(42:17):
like mandatory, you know, everybody's got to do this, and
if you're not doing this, oh wow, you know, you're
not really
Really serving God, because you gotta do this and you
gotta do it this way, so.
Very good, Rudy, thank you for calling in today on
Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is our number. Here's Cathy listening in Honolulu. Aloha,
(42:41):
and thank you for calling in today, Cathy.
Hi, how can we help you? I'm, can you hear me? Yeah,
how's the weather in Hawaii? Well, that's a dumb question.
Oh, it's beautiful.
Right now is beautiful. Yes.
I had a question. I heard Brian and Cheryl talking
(43:04):
about a dove following her around and stuff, and she
gave it some kind of
Some meaning, and I don't like to spiritualize things, but
I've been recently um
Have these two doves.
They keep hovering over my head and coming for. I mean,
you know, once, 3 or 4 times it's happened and
(43:27):
people are saying things to me like, oh that's lucky
or oh something, something. And I said, well, I heard
something about it once and I, but I don't know.
I don't like to.
Yeah. What's the story, Brian? I wanted to see if
I can get a refresher on the story. Yeah, um,
whenever I tell Cheryl's stories, I always get in trouble
because I mess them up, you know, she's like, no, no,
(43:49):
that's not how it happened. Um, but there was something
going on, and I don't remember what it was that was,
you know, something was bothering her some, you know, maybe
somebody had insinuated that, you know, the Lord wasn't with
us or something.
I, I don't remember what that was, but I do
remember very specifically that there was this day where this
(44:12):
dove just literally kept like wouldn't leave Cheryl alone, and it,
you know, it wasn't coming up and you know, getting like,
you know, uh, lighting on her head or anything, but
it was, you know, it was getting very close to
her and this happened like 2 or 3 times throughout
a day.
(44:33):
And there there was finally a point, and it was unusual,
you know, birds usually they're usually getting, going the opposite
direction of, of where people are, and this stuff kind
of just kept coming, coming near her. So there just
came a point where she really felt like, I think
the Lord's just trying to remind me that he's with
me and that whatever the criticism was or whatever, she
(44:53):
was just able to to let it go because this
was God speaking to her that
Yeah, I'm with you. So yeah, it's just one of
those weird things, but it seemed at the moment like, yeah,
it seemed like the Lord was.
Maybe speaking there now is Cheryl gonna be here tomorrow
so that she can clarify just in case can get the,
she'll get, get the.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
That was a nice way of saying that Brian Perez.
You meant to say she could fix the story, but
you said clarify. That was
Speaker 1 (45:18):
good.
Oh man. All right, Kathy, thanks for calling in today
and tune in tomorrow because, uh, hopefully we'll get the, uh,
the rest, the, um, the, the clarification. Yeah, that's it.
Michael in Los Alamitos, hi.
Hey guys, how are you doing today? Doing great. You're
on with Brian Broderson and Phil Metzger. Thanks for calling
(45:40):
in today.
My pleasure. So I just, uh, I have, uh, the
question I have, it's kind of, it's very detailed, but I,
I'm sincerely going to try to make it as brief
as I can. So if you go to Hosea chapter 6,
verses 1 through 3, it refers to like how, um, uh,
basically it's, you know, let's say the Jews talking about
(46:02):
how they're gonna return back to the Lord and then
the Lord, well, after two days, like using the, the,
the one.
The 1000 years is like a day of the Lord principle.
Returns after the 2 days right on but says after
2 days he'll, he'll basically, I'm summarizing it right I'm
just not reading it. I'm just like not reading it verbatim. Anyways,
(46:22):
on the 3rd day, he's going to return. So and I,
and if you back up to the verse 15, uh,
chapter 5, verse 15, it refers to how, you know,
Yahweh returns back to his place.
Because, uh, basically because of essentially because the Jews rejection
of him, right? And that's when, and I mean, and
the way I, the way it kind of like some,
(46:43):
it's almost like a, a jigsaw puzzle, right, where you
see how Jesus came for the lost, how, you know,
the lost sheep of Israel. He goes back, he, you know,
he sends into the clouds after his resurrection. His command
to his disciples was to go make disciples from the nation, right?
Not necessarily specifically.
You know, the house of Judah, right, it's specifically the
(47:03):
nations which incidentally,
Um, I don't know if you recall back in the
end of Genesis when Jacob said, like, kind of gives
these various prophecies over, you know, the different, his different
sons and, and over Joseph's sons, he has his right
hand over Aphriim and left hand over Manasa, even though
Araim was the youngest one and he
That Ephraim you basically be swallowed up into the nations, right?
(47:25):
And I know Ephraim is always like a, kind of
like symbolized for the nations as well as Israel, right?
It's kind of like symbolic of that. So you kind
of see how like there's like the two different houses
still in play there and then. So what's your main
question for us, Michael, because we don't have a whole
lot of time left on the program.
Yeah, sorry about that. OK, so I'll get to my point.
Do you guys see the, the 3rd day, I mean,
(47:48):
based on an approximate timeline when Jesus was born, died,
and resurrected, the, uh, the end of that 2nd day
coming within the next, I mean, let's just say within
the next, you know, 8 to 10 years approximately.
Um, well, it's a, yeah, this is a passage that, um, I,
I am, I think Phil's probably as well familiar with
(48:11):
and um.
It, it is an interesting passage for sure, and I
do it the hard thing is, I don't think you
can dogmatically without any uh reservation whatsoever, say this is
a prophecy of a 2000 year period.
(48:34):
Um, in which the Lord has forsaken Israel and then
he's going to restore them on the 3rd day that
entering into the 3000 years. Although some have done that,
it could mean that, and I think, yeah, that's, that's really, it's,
it's fascinating. I mean, you know, when you look at it, just,
you know, after 2 days he will revive us on
(48:55):
the 3rd day he will restore us, that we may
live in his presence. I mean, is it a is
it a literal after 2 days and then the 3rd day, um.
Yeah, you know, so it's hard to see how there's a, a,
a literal day fulfillment there. So it seems like, wow,
this kind of fits with, and it's convenient for us
(49:17):
because it's been about 2000 years, you know, that Jesus
has been away. And so that makes perfect sense to us. Uh,
but I mean, think of, think of Christians 500 years ago,
you know, they're reading that 500 years ago and they're going, OK.
Well, we got another 500 years before we get to
the 2 days, if the 2 days represent 2000 years. So,
(49:38):
so anyway, all, all I'm saying is it might be that,
but we can't say with absolute certainty, like we can
say other things with certainty. So, so I, I, when,
when I would teach us, I would just say, wow,
this is interesting.
And, and, you know, check this out. You know, I'm
(49:59):
gonna leave. I'm gonna go back to my place until
they seek my face. Wow, this sounds just like what,
you know, Jesus came and he then he left and
he went back and he hasn't come back yet, but
he's gonna come back. So anyway, have you, have you
thought about this thought it what
Speaker 2 (50:15):
what's your take? Yeah, I mean, I, I think I've landed.
I think I've landed where you are on that too. I,
I think.
Kind of the more that we like um grab on
to certain versions of dispensationalism, this becomes a little bit
more um
Like this is it, this is the thing, you know, um, and, uh,
(50:37):
I think the more we kind of just go, OK, wait.
But is there other ways of not only looking at that,
but maybe, you know, I'm especially interested in the idea
that like we, we really don't know exactly when, we
just know where to be ready. And I, I, I
kind of hit that same point where I was like, gosh,
it seems like everything points to our time. Isn't that convenient,
(50:58):
you know, it, it seemed a bit convenient to me.
And yet every generation has been called to the same, like,
holly expect expectant living. Yeah.
Because of that, it made me just go, gosh, I,
I think, I think for me, Jose is 6133 is
super exciting. First of all, just a great passage period,
so beautiful, um, but in terms of its relevance in
(51:21):
the last days.
I think this will be one of those where if
it is, we're all gonna go, oh my gosh, that
was so cool. There's gonna be so much of the
Bible when we're, when we're caught up to be with
the Lord or we die and go to be with
the Lord. There's gonna be so many passages, we're gonna
be like, no way. That fits better than I ever
even imagined. Like, it's gonna be, it's gonna be.
(51:44):
I remember reading the Bible the first time and like
having things, my eyes open in ways I never even
thought possible. I can't imagine what that's gonna be like
when I get to heaven. I, I imagine Hosea 6
will be one of those.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
And wouldn't it be great if that is actually the interpretation?
I mean, I love, I love that possibility that that
is the case. So, hey, maybe so. Let's go. We'll
wait and see.
Michael, thanks for your phone call today on Pastor's Perspective
to San Bernardino, we go. Here is Anthony, who's watching
us on YouTube. What's going on, Anthony? How can we
(52:16):
help you?
Hi, good afternoon, pastors. Uh, I got a two-part question.
Number one, I can't find anywhere in the Bible that
talks about, uh, not being able to listen to secular music, um,
because I, I like listening to, to allies. And also, um,
(52:36):
number 2 is, I've got a son that is going
through a divorce with his wife. His wife, uh, it
left him and filed for divorce.
Uh, she's, she's going to church, she proclaims to be
a Christian, but her fruit doesn't, uh, proclaim that, and, uh,
but she's, uh, she's a, a leader, uh, in the
(52:59):
praise and worship team at church. Um, now, I wanted
to find out your perspective if, uh, that's OK for
her to be, uh, doing ministry, uh, when she's going through.
All of this, uh, and, and, uh, just, uh, being
really mean. Does the pastor of her church know about
(53:22):
what's going on?
Yes, as a matter of fact, uh, the, the, they
went for counseling with the pastor and uh the, the
pastor just seemed to be one-sided, uh, on, on the
whole thing. OK. Phil, what do you say?
Speaker 2 (53:38):
Yeah, well, your, your first question is easier to answer
than your second one, Anthony. So, uh, your first one's
a little bit clearer there, you know, can we listen
to secular music? The, the answer is, is, can you
listen to secular music? And it sounds like you answered
that question and your answer was, yes, you can. And
if it's not taking away from your relationship with God.
(53:59):
You know, when, when we think of secular music, let's
not go to the like most evil, darkest, terrible music,
you know, uh, not that that's that that's not all.
We
Speaker 1 (54:09):
talked about Ozzy Osbourne yesterday,
oh right,
Speaker 2 (54:12):
OK, the Prince of Darkness, or isn't that what he
was nickname and all, yeah, yeah, so, you know, obviously
there's like a, like, like maybe I think for a
lot of people secular music might represent like
Just kind of a pull back into their past. And
I know for a lot of Christians that that first,
when they first come to Christ, they do kind of
gotta move away from those things because it's like a
(54:35):
lure back in. I totally get that. So even if
the music's totally non, like, not a, not dark and
not evil, but it just pulls you back in your
thought processes back and your mind back, and you're like,
I can't listen to that right now. Um, I'm a
new Christian and I can't, I can't do that.
I absolutely respect that a million times. Then don't listen
(54:56):
to that. But as it relates to like, is there
a Bible verse and is there like a mandate for
all Christians, the, the, the answer is there is a
Bible verse like that you have to do what you
know before your own conscience to do that is right.
Speaker 1 (55:09):
And Pastor Brian, if you could answer the other question,
I know you can't hear the music, Phil, but, um,
got about 30 seconds. Um, yeah, the other question is
a little more difficult to answer because on the surface,
of course, that sounds like.
That that doesn't sound right. But you know, um, we
only know the side of the story you're telling us. So, um,
I think that we would have to know a bit
(55:31):
more and you know, I think when somebody goes through,
it kind of depends, you know, if the person going
through the struggle is kind of the victim in a
bad relationship, and I think we, we want to encourage
them by allowing them to continue in ministry.
If they're the one who's causing the problem, then that's
another story. So, but hard to say. Yes, indeed. All right,
(55:55):
you guys, thanks for listening. Thanks for watching. We'll talk
to you tomorrow on Pastor's Perspective.
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez,
and we're gonna be here for the next hour to
answer the questions you might have about the Bible, the
Christian faith, just about anything that's on your mind, how
to live out the Christian life. Give us a call
at 888-564-6173. Hope you all are doing good. Give us
a call, check in, tell us that you're alive. It
(00:39):
seems like everybody's been dying in the last few days.
Brian Broderson, are you OK?
I'm here. Chuck or uh Chuck, Phil, Phil Metzger, are
you OK?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I'm OK. I'm alive. Be sick this week, but I'm alive.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Oh good, man. What a week. It's been crazy. So Phil, did,
did you actually have COVID? Is that, yeah, is that
what you had? Yeah,
Speaker 2 (01:01):
yeah, I know. I thought that was, I thought that
was
Speaker 1 (01:04):
over.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
It's 2020. I had it during the pandemic and I
had it really bad. I was sick for like 12 days.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Were you really?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yeah, like kind of pretty bad, like 6 days, like
over 103 fever, pretty rough. Good. And then, um, so
this time when I got it, it was, it didn't
last but a few days, but still I knew right
away what I
had.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Really, so you had kind of like the symptoms are
very similar.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Just that like it just saps everything out of me
and immediately like fevers and like severe body aches, just
all the things that I, I had the last time
I knew it, man. It was rough.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Now did you know there was that 11 sort of
phenomenon that that many, many people experienced which like the
taste thing. Did you, was that ever part of it
for you where you lost your taste or or smell,
sense of smell smell, yeah, smell and taste.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
The first couple weeks when I had COVID, the first time, yes.
And then it came back and I heard that the
younger you are, the longer it lasted. So I was
kind of disappointed at how quickly mine came back because my,
my daughter lost hers for like 6 months. No joke.
She couldn't like food taste for like 6 months.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, and I, and I've actually known some people who
it it is like permanently altered their taste, like things
just don't taste like they should or you know, like
they used to.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Which I mean, the, the upside is I wasn't hungry
for the last 4 days. I haven't eaten and I mean,
you
Speaker 1 (02:31):
know, there's a,
there, there that is. There is something positive there. We can,
we can always find something good in everything. That's right.
You
Speaker 2 (02:40):
gotta find, you gotta find the good in everything, you know.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Well,
my, my wife had the stomach flu.
Uh, 24 hour kind of a deal apparently. So she's
up back to her normal self today, but she, she
is saying that she feels a little queasy still, but, but,
you know, I'm gonna get on a plane here in
a couple of days, so I'm just like, I'm doing
(03:03):
everything to stay away from all that stuff. Oh yeah,
don't get sick. No, whether you're jumping on a plane
or not, yeah, or off a plane or
Speaker 2 (03:12):
but there's nothing worse than being sick when you travel, seriously,
it's like.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Uh yeah, I travel, I traveled home my last trip
when I came home, I was sick, um, yeah.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, you know, you, you forget.
When you get sick, you suddenly realize like, oh gosh, yeah, sick.
I hate being sick. Sick is so miserable, you know, you, I,
(03:38):
I mean if you're not sick often, you kind of
just forget how, how bad you can actually feel.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
See, and that's the thing, I don't get sick very
often like I'm, I'm generally healthy, so when I do,
it's like I go big or go home and I
go big on that.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
It's just.
I do
Speaker 2 (03:54):
it
Speaker 1 (03:54):
right,
right. All right, guys. 888-564-6173 is the number to call,
and you can also send in your questions online. That's what, uh,
this person did, uh, sent in a question regarding Hebrews 10:26.
Let me read it really quick for those who don't
know it. For if we sin willfully after we have
received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains
(04:16):
a sacrifice for sins. So, uh, this person writes my question.
It is about this passage, I heard a pastor teach
that if we keep deliberately sinning against God, there will
be no longer any sacrifice to cover for this sin,
and God will leave you. This has troubled me a
lot because 10 years ago I backslid against God. I
(04:36):
was living for the world, got curious with psychics, and
I've seen evil spirits in the house after that.
I've realized what I have done was so wrong and
promised myself to never do it again. I could not
even understand why I did that. It was 10 years ago.
I asked God to please forgive me, and I had
forgotten about it, went about my life, but 2 years ago,
bad things started happening in my life, and I've probably
(04:59):
suppressed it in my mind that it resurfaced and keeps
replaying in my head of the terrible thing that I
had done against God. That's why this, uh, that, that's
why this is the payment I had to endure.
I have rededicated my life 2 years ago, and God
knows how I deeply regret that sin, and I'm asking,
is it really possible that God had left me and
(05:21):
no more amount of sacrifice will cover for this sin?
I know I've committed the ultimate sin, and I keep
asking God for His forgiveness. I promise God every day
that I will live for Him, and I do, but
I just don't feel Him any more. Am I too
far gone? God knows in my heart how I deeply
regret that time in my life.
Please pray for God to please give me another chance. Phil,
(05:46):
what would you say to this person?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
I mean, there's so much there, Brian, and uh so
I'll share some things. Brian, I'm sure you got more
you wanna add into there. Uh, let me just start
by saying, uh, this dude, oh, I didn't, I don't
know if it's a dude, it sounded like a dude,
but maybe cause you read it, Brian, was it a
guy or a girl? It's a woman, it's a woman, OK,
this gal.
I'm so sorry for you that your, your, your takeaway
(06:09):
from all this is that you've committed a sin that's in, uh,
that is unforgivable. That's, it's just not true. The, the
Bible talks about
Sinning in such a way where you just say, I
don't want God. I don't care about God. I'm not
interested in God. I don't want forgiveness. But here you are,
(06:29):
this person writing in saying, I, I am so deeply
sorry for what I've done, and I'm asking God to
forgive me. You have to know, and I, I, I
wish that every, every preacher around the world would make
this so clear to people. The Bible tells us that
he is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins.
He wants to forgive you. That's why Jesus came and
(06:50):
died on a cross. It, it, it, he didn't come
and then die on a cross so that he could
hold something over you 2000 years later, and make you
feel bad and make you feel like you are unworthy.
The reality is, is that grace has never been based
on worth or unworth. You're not any more unworthy than
you could be worthy. God in His grace, says, you
(07:12):
can receive my forgiveness. You just repent of your sins. So,
No, you have not committed a sin that is unforgivable.
A sin that is unforgivable is a sin you won't
repent of, and you're repenting. And so that, that, that
verse isn't talking to you and saying that there's no
more sacrifice for you because you're not willing to repent
(07:32):
when you're willing to repent. When you're unwilling to repent.
Then there is no forgiveness because you're not willing to
repent of your sins. So, I'd love for this person
to know that they are, don't be in the bondage.
If you feel like you're not feeling God, I'm gonna
guess a little bit of that is because you believe
that you can't feel God because what you've done is
(07:53):
impossible to feel God. And so you're asking, you're asking
for something that
It's a double negative there. God wants to forgive you,
let him forgive you. Move forward. The Bible says that
you have his forgiveness through the cross, so he's absolutely
there and he's absolutely for you,
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Pastor Brian.
Yeah, that, that's so good, Phil. Um, and, um, the
only thing I would add to it is not really
to add to any of the conclusion that Phil drew,
but to take you back to the biblical text that
you were referring to and the sermon that you heard, um,
Hebrews is a book that is written for, for one
(08:34):
primary reason.
And it's to warn people who have embraced Jesus as
their Messiah. These are, these are Jewish people, that's why
the book's called the Hebrews, um, to warn them not
to leave their trust in the Messiah and to go
back to their former, um, religious system that has no
(08:57):
ability to actually save them.
So in in Hebrews, you have a series of warnings,
and they're all warning about the same thing. If we
willfully sin after we've received from the knowledge of the truth,
the willful sin there is one particular sin, that's the
one he's talking about. It's the sin of departing from
Christ and going back to uh the old system that
(09:20):
can't bring salvation. So like Phil's saying and like you stated.
You're not doing that. You're like, I, I want forgiveness.
I want Jesus. I, I blew it and I, I
don't want, so you're, you're good. You're the, the person
who's doing what Hebrews is warning about is not calling
(09:44):
up on a Christian radio program because they feel worried
about their salvation.
The person who's doing what, uh, the Hebrew author is
warning about is the person who's kind of like, yeah,
I'm not really worried about that. I'm, I'm gonna go
do my thing and I'm not really concerned about, uh, Jesus,
(10:06):
so you're not that person.
What, uh, did we address the the part where uh
she said about the evil spirits that she thinks she's
seen in her home since you know, I mean.
What whatever you saw or thought you saw, don't even
worry about it. I mean, you're, you know, like, like Phil,
(10:26):
when he was quoting from First John, if you confess
your sins, God is faithful and just to forgive us,
to cleanse us. So your, your sins are forgiven, you're cleans,
there's no residual like, you know, demon kind of thing
that's gonna, gonna hold on to you. The only way
that's gonna happen is if you stay in your sin.
Then you set yourself up for harassment by the devil and,
(10:50):
you know, bondage from the devil, but that's again, that's
not you. So, um, you can just whatever that was
that't matter and you said, you know, like this all
happened 10 years ago, then you said 2 years ago
things started going wrong.
You know, we could, we could talk to hundreds of
Christians today who would tell you, you know, 2 years ago,
my life just started going, you know, all kinds of
(11:11):
problems and difficulties and struggles, and guess what? That's the
Christian life. The Christian life has challenges. And then the
other part like you were saying, Phil, you know, the,
the idea that, well, I don't feel close to God
or I don't hear God.
We go through those kinds of seasons, and sometimes, like
Phil was saying, if you're, if you're thinking you're not
(11:32):
gonna hear from God because you've sinned in a way
that he's not talking to you, then you kind of just,
it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy. So, stop thinking that and just,
you know, the Lord, the Lord in his time, he, he,
he'll give you what you need to know that.
Um, everything's OK, but
(11:53):
Rather than just waiting for that to happen, just take
him at his word. This is what he said, You confessed,
he's faithful, you're forgiven. Move on.
Mm
Can we talk a little bit though about self-fulfilling prophecies
to make sure we understand what that means? It's not,
is it a as you think that's gonna happen, like
(12:13):
the power of positive thinking or if you, it's the
power of negative thinking in this case. OK, so yeah, yeah,
you're thinking like the like the worst case scenario.
And then anything that happens, you read it into, well, I, I,
that's just what I thought was gonna happen, you know, God,
God's not with me and that's why I got a
flat tire and God's not with me, and that's why I,
(12:33):
I didn't get the raise at the job and somebody
else did and God's not with me and that's why
my kids are, um, rebelling and, you know, all the
different kinds of things, the negative things that come up.
If we're predisposed in our minds to think that.
We're under this kind of a judgment, then everything we
(12:54):
see that's negative, we're just gonna interpret it as, yep, see,
there it is. I knew it. God's against me.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
I would even say, I mean, I love that, and
it cause I don't love it. I hate it. I
hate that we do that to ourselves, but I, I
was thinking too like this is like original sin like
demonic kind of stuff because what was the devil trying to,
he was telling Eve, well, did God really mean that?
Did he really want that? Does he really care about that?
It's and this is what we do to ourselves literally
in 2025 we're like, we see the
(13:25):
It's not just that we see the negative, but we
believe as Christians we can even believe like God has
like God doesn't have good intentions, which is the orig,
you know, a part of that original sin like is
God really for you? Does God really love you? Does
God really care?
And the truth is, is like, you know, yeah, you
got one flat tire, you could have gotten 4 and
you only got 1. So look at that, you know,
or maybe that raise would have moved you, you know,
(13:48):
had you gotten the raise, God knew you weren't gonna
like stay dependent upon him. I mean, there's just so
many factors that we're so unaware of, you know, and
yet
We only see things from this one perspective. And I
do think that the, the, it is self-fulfilling a lot
of times. Like, if I'm already looking down because I'm
discouraged and then I run into a tree and I'm like, see,
(14:08):
that's what happens. It's like, yeah, but you were looking down,
but that's what happens,
Speaker 1 (14:12):
you
Speaker 2 (14:12):
know, and it's just, it's a vicious cycle, man.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Good conversation, you know, just one last thing, let me
just say, what's our caller's name? I mean, anonymous, OK.
Um, here, here's a thing to know, and, you know,
maybe some of our other listeners, this will speak to you. Um,
you know, the devil is not, um,
(14:38):
He's not afraid to use scripture against us, and we
know that we, he tried to use scripture against Jesus.
I mean, you know, the devil's quoting scriptures to Jesus
like trying to trip them up. So these passages, especially
in Hebrews, you know, these warning passages, uh, the passage
in chapter 6, you know, if they fall away, it's
(15:00):
impossible to renew them to repentance and so forth, um.
The devil, he will use those passages and try to
convince us that that's who we are, but we're not
those people. And, and the, the way to know, like
very simply, is like we said initially, your
(15:22):
bothered by this. You've asked forgiveness. You're writing into Christians
to ask for help. People who actually commit the sins
that are being talked about don't do that, right? They're
going on their merry way, leaving Jesus behind and not
thinking twice about it, yeah.
So
Noni, thank you for writing in with your question. Noni,
(15:43):
as in anonymous. Very cool. Kwave.com, the pastor's perspective page.
Thanks for writing in your question. Let's go to the
phones now, 888-564-6173. We will start with Curtis, who's calling
in from Temecula, listening on FM 107.9 K wave. Hello, Curtis.
(16:03):
Hey, good afternoon and thank you for taking my call. Yeah,
how can we help? I went into, uh, I went
in to donate some blood yesterday at a Mormon church,
and Jesus Christ's paintings were all over the place and
talking to Mormons in general from my Christian church, talking
to Mormons.
They claim that Jesus Christ is Lord. They are convinced
(16:25):
that he is God. Yet I understand that he is
just a go to them. He is a created being.
Who did the Mormons think Jesus Christ actually is and
why is it a sect or a cult? And my
last question is quickly, why do they call themselves the
(16:46):
Church of Latter-day Saints?
All right, Brian, yeah, good, good questions. Um, well, I,
I think right up front we should acknowledge that there
are I think probably a fair number of of Mormon
people who
They, they say that and they genuinely mean it. They like,
(17:10):
well no, you know, Jesus is the Lord, uh, because
a lot of them don't even know exactly what the
doctrine of their church is. So in Mormon doctrine, you
have Jesus as a created being, you have God as
a a being who started out as a man.
(17:32):
So God, according to Mormonism, used to be a man
and now he's been elevated to God. And as God
once was, so are we now, and as God has
become so shall we. That's a quote from a paraphrase
from Brigham Young. Brigham Young was like the second, you know,
(17:53):
kind of leading figure in Mormonism back in the 1800s.
And um,
So in in the in the doctrine of Mormonism, you
have Jesus as the spirit brother with Lucifer. So, I mean,
that right there should tell you, OK, that sounds problematic. Um, so,
(18:16):
you know, scripture, of course, teaches that there's there's one
God that that one God exists in three persons, the Father,
the Son, and the spirit.
And of course, the Bible teaches that Jesus is the, um,
he's the second person of the triune God. He's the
eternal God, he's always been God. Never was a time
(18:37):
he wasn't God or ever will there be a time
that he isn't God. And so the very nature of
Jesus and God are are quite confusing in Mormonism.
And the Latter Day Saints is the the idea that
Joseph Smith recovered the true gospel and everything uh that
(19:00):
went before was false. So when Joseph Smith had his
supposed vision of the angel Moroni.
Who came to him and gave him the tablets. Um,
the message was that all of the existing Christian churches
had apostasized. They'd all lost their way. Now, he was
(19:21):
going to be the one to restore the true church.
So that's the idea behind the latter-day saints. They're the,
they're the saints uh of the, actually, uh, some groups
of Mormons in the early days, they refer to themselves
as like a the restoration church. So it was a restoring.
Uh, to original Christianity, but of course it's not original
(19:41):
Christianity because that's not the teaching of the Bible. Everything
you always wanted to know about Mormonism, but we're afraid
to ask. That is like the most comprehensive answer I've
ever heard, Brian. There's lots, there's a lot more to it. Curtis,
is that helpful at all?
Very helpful, very educational, very enlightening. I appreciate your insight.
(20:03):
All right. And there's some, you know, there's some great,
I mean, we're just, you know, it's the tip of
the iceberg. There's some great materials that you can pick
up that'll give you a deeper dive if, if you
care to go there. You know, I think sometimes that we,
you know, I, I think.
In the last, you know, 15 years or so, um, maybe,
maybe even a bit longer. It's almost like the new
(20:25):
atheism first and the and the resurgence of Islam, they
sort of eclipsed, you know, you kind of forget that
there's Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons, because all this other stuff
is going on, but it's like they're still alive and well,
they're still knocking on doors and riding their bikes and
making disciples and so.
(20:46):
Yeah, we, we've got to be, and like I said,
a lot of them.
They don't know what their church believes, and they just think, oh,
of course I believe in Jesus. I, of course he's
the Lord, but you, you have to dig deeper and ask, well,
what is, what does that actually mean? Yeah.
Curtis, you might want to call the chapel store at
Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, and uh they could tell you
about some great resources that are available to read. Their
(21:08):
phone number is 714-540-2941.
888-564-6173 is the number to call right now though, if
you have a question for Pastors Brian Broderson or Phil Metzger.
Brian's a pastor at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa. Phil's the
pastor of Calvary San Diego, and, uh, here's a call
from Katie in San Diego. Hey, Katie, thanks for calling
(21:31):
in today. How can we help?
Hi, pastors, how are you? Good. Thank you.
Good, thank you. Team Marissa, cowgirl up. Um, OK, so
I have a question. 3 years ago, we asked this
supposedly upstanding liar of the community, um, as Christians to
(21:52):
stop harassing me, and we were trying to avoid going
to court, right? So now we're at the point where
it's completely enraging and bothering our faith. I, I don't
even want to pray, OK? I'm having a hard time.
So, um, my question is how would you say.
Um, we made the wrong choice about self-defense monetarily now.
(22:19):
1 Corinthians 6:10 11.
Mhm.
So this person was harassing you, but you chose not
to deal with it with the courts or what?
Well, I did talk to the city mayor about him
and what he was doing at the time, and I
(22:39):
talked to them about it, hoping they would figure it out. OK. Now,
just to go a little bit deeper here, um,
Uh, why would you talk to the mayor about, I mean,
that seems like, uh, you know, a whole another level of,
(22:59):
of some. Because it was really, it's really complicated to, uh, get, uh,
him convicted. They, it's a lot of disbelieving, um, about
what he's actually been doing. Is he like a, like
a business figure in the community or?
Is he a, he's breaking code. Well, does he hold
(23:21):
office and violating codes, um, property codes and um. Yeah. Uh,
unpaid bills were unregistered vehicles. Mm.
So when it comes to lawsuits and taking people to court,
is it the Christian thing to do to, to just
pray about it? And is that, is that your question, Katie,
(23:44):
kind of?
Well, he's basically harassing me and stalking me for ongoing
3 years about it now. And his wife is unaware
about it, and I've been trying to get her attention
because I don't have her phone number anymore. And it's
been a long, arduous task of trying to get her
attention and her awareness about the whole ordeal. Mhm. Well, yeah,
(24:06):
I mean, it, you know, it sounds on one level
like you're, this thing has kind of consumed your life.
And then, you know, when you said you don't even
want to pray anymore, that to me sounds like this
is taking up way too much space in your heart
and mind, and you sound frustrated, you sound like, uh,
(24:28):
you know, at every
At every angle, you're kind of just not able to
to make any forward progress. Um, I would advise you
to just back off and turn it over to the
Lord and and let God
You know, take it the burden from you and refocus
(24:52):
your heart and mind on him and what it is
that he wants to do in your life through this,
what it is that he wants to do, you know, as,
as you move ahead, because it just sounds like your,
your whole life is consumed by this thing that it
also sounds like you're, you're not having any luck doing
anything about it.
(25:13):
So there are times when, you know, actually the passage
in 1 Corinthians is interesting because Paul at one point there,
he says, why not just be defrauded? So there's a
point where he says, just let it go. It's kind
of like Jesus said, if, um, you know, if somebody
sues you and wants to take away your coat, give
(25:35):
them your cloak as well.
So there there's a point where all of this, not
to say that we can never be in a lawsuit,
because sometimes you end up in a lawsuit. What Paul
is arguing for in 1 Corinthians 6 is that Christians
shouldn't be taking their problems before the secular courts, they
should be able to work them out. Um,
(25:58):
Doesn't sound like you're dealing with a Christian, so that
exempts you from that there, but I don't know, Phil,
you got any
thoughts?
Speaker 2 (26:07):
No, that's, that's where I was gonna go with this
is like that whole idea in Corinthians is about believers,
and this doesn't sound like a case of believers at all.
It just sounds like
You know, it's hard to know kind of what harass
means exactly without us getting all the details. I think that,
you know, is it personal, is it business? is it financial,
is it, uh, yeah, whatever. So it sounds to me
like it's, I mean, I, Brian, I think that's great advice.
(26:30):
Like there's things that I can let my mind, I
can give so much power to, it just ruins me.
And I think Katie, what we're saying is we'd hate
for that to continue for you like.
You have a life that does, like, you don't need
to be consumed with that. Now what's unlawful or it's illegal,
like report it to the police, that's not, there's nothing
(26:50):
wrong with doing that. Um, I'm not sure it goes
right to like politicians, but I think just to your, your,
you know, criminal courts or whatever, call the call the police,
let them be involved, that's, there's nothing, I think as
Christians we need to be OK to do that, especially
as it relates to, you know, civil or criminal matters,
but yeah, I agree, man, if, if you don't.
(27:12):
If there's any way that you can release this into
the hand of God, trust the Lord, you should do
that because it, when you say things like, it's taking
away my ability to pray, you're calling pastor's perspective. That
our perspective is that's really, that that concerns us so much. Like,
call the cops, get people involved, whatever. But when you say, man,
(27:33):
I can't even pray to God anymore, I'm, I'm more
worried about you than I am about this dude that's
being harassing.
You know, um, we wanna see you get back, you know,
in a place where you can talk to the Lord,
you can have peace in your life. God promises peace,
he offers peace. Um, we don't solve those, you know,
kind of civil cases or, you know, can't help you
(27:54):
with the guy harassing. But God wants you to have
peace in that, so I, I definitely.
I, I hate for you to give that up to
a person, and that's what you're doing. You're giving up, uh, uh,
your peace with God over this person, and nobody's worth that.
No one is worth
that.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Yeah. And you know, the, the, the thing that, I mean, it's, it's,
this is a hard thing to handle, but the fact
is there are injustices that occur in the world, and
we might be the victim of injustice at times.
And this is where it really comes to a place of,
of really having to trust the Lord because, you know,
(28:29):
you've exhausted all of the options. I mean, you know,
you think of people I've, I, you know, had seen
many times over the years where, you know, somebody goes
to court and it's like, wow, that just seems like
the exact opposite decision of what should have come down
based on the facts, but that's what it is. So
what do you, what do you do about that at
(28:50):
that point?
Well, you know, you, you go back to Jesus who
talk about an injustice. I mean, he suffered the greatest
injustice of all time, so he knows what we're going
through and he calls us at those times to just say, Lord,
I don't get it. This doesn't seem like it should
(29:10):
go this way, but I'm gonna trust you.
And maybe we'll see it get sorted out in this life.
Maybe we won't, maybe we'll see it get sorted out later.
It will get sorted, but God is the one who
will determine when.
I think it gets confusing too when we're wondering and
like Katie said, is it the Christian thing to do?
(29:32):
Do we turn the other cheek? Do we lay down
our life? I mean, yeah, but it doesn't mean that
we don't take the, you know, like Paul, a great
example with Paul is he's a Roman citizen. So on
certain occasions, he's like, hey, I'm a citizen, that's a violation.
My citizens' rights. So I'm gonna stand against that. And
then at other times he's like, well, you know, what
can I do? Katie, thanks for your phone call. We've
(29:53):
got to take a break here on Pastor's Perspective. What
do you want to ask Brian Broderson and Phil Metzger?
They're here for another half hour at 888-564-6173.
(30:17):
Hey, you're back, and so are we. This is Pastor's Perspective.
I'm Brian Perez, Brian Broderson and Phil Metzger here to
answer your questions on this lovely Thursday afternoon. 888-564-6173 is
our number. And let's go now to Laguna Woods. Here
is Robert, who listens to Pastor's perspective on the Kwave app.
(30:37):
Thank you, Robert, for downloading the app and for calling
in today with a follow-up question. Go ahead.
Well, absolutely.
I'd like to thank you guys. I'd like to thank
you guys for doing such a wonderful job. I love
the show. I listen to it typically at 3 a.m.
in the morning when I'm coming into town because I
work in Testing bike traffic and stuff, but it's a
(30:59):
great show and, um, and I also think I Costa
Mesa is a great place because I go, I've been
going to cele celebrate recovery there since last summer when
I went to that, um, you had your annual meeting
the first time in.
Years and I heard about some recovery, so we can
go there and I really appreciate them sponsoring that. It's
a wonderful group. If you're trying to recover from any
(31:21):
kind of dependency or addiction, I and you have time
on a Tuesday night at 6:30, I highly recommend going there.
So that being said, I, I wanted to shout out
to them. But my question has to do, I heard, uh,
a lady called in a couple of days ago. I
know her name, but I'm not gonna mention her name.
And she talked about how she needed forgiveness for hating
(31:44):
Trump and that all, and I've heard, this is what
I heard, that everybody that um supports Trump is hate
is full of hate.
And um,
And I'm thinking this is like, OK, no specific mention
of anything. That's, that's, that's a great way to go. Oh,
they're just full of hate. Well, let's not talk about
(32:05):
Hamas and who's supporting Hamas in this country, OK? And
let's not, let's pretend they're not a hate group who's
attacking Israel and who's protecting, and that would be President Trump.
So but what what bothered me is I didn't hear
the pastors push back on this at all, and I'm
just trying to figure out.
Is the is, is we're accepting the fact that everybody
who supports President Trump who goes to church is a hater.
(32:29):
Uh, well, I don't think so. I mean, I'm certainly not,
and I know that, you know, we have people in
our church that do support President Trump. And, um, but I,
but I think sometimes, I think part of it honestly
is that some people, um, I kind of almost blindly
support Trump, um, regardless of, of what he does, and
(32:52):
I think that that can be a problem too.
And so I think, uh, you know, we should acknowledge, uh,
when he does something good, and I think we should
also be able to say, well, you know, no, that
that was not good uh that what what he did there.
And so I think, uh, well, you know, with the
immigration thing, it's such a heated, it's so heated because
(33:16):
there's so much um emotionally that's going on with it.
And you can understand it. So the, the very complicated
situation of trying to remedy uh a huge immigration mess
in this country and I think uh my own opinion
is that, you know, we do have laws, we do
have borders, uh, we do have the right way to
(33:38):
get in the country and then we have wrong ways
to get in the country, and that needs to be
put right. But when you see
You know, some of the way that that it has
Kind of rolled out, I think you can also recognize
that no, that that's a problem right there, and they
they need to come up with some better, better strategies
(34:01):
on how to, you know, humanely do what they're doing.
And I think the criticism um comes from some of the,
the treatment that
Is, is just not, uh, you know, as a Christian,
you look at some of this treatment, you think, you know,
no that that's not right, you know, we shouldn't treat
(34:22):
people like that regardless. People say, oh well, they're here illegally,
they're breaking the law. OK, uh, you know, but if
you broke the law, do you wanna be, you know,
how do you want to be handled if you break
the law? So.
Anyway, it's a complicated thing. Phil, you're down at the border.
You've dealt with a lot of this stuff. If you
look out the window there, can you see Tijuana or
Speaker 2 (34:43):
actually from the other window, yes you can every night
I can see Tijuana from my, from my house, yeah, uh,
Speaker 1 (34:50):
and
you had, you had, yeah, you know, all, all of
those Ukrainians that came to the border and all of
that stuff. So
Speaker 2 (34:56):
yeah, I mean, you know, anybody that's like when you
see this from the uh a macro perspective on the
news only, it is easier to have kind of
Uh, rigid opinions, and I, and I actually I really
totally do understand that. The more involved, I think especially
when you get involved like as a Christian.
You, you, there's there's an empathy that we should have,
(35:19):
that we just say, gosh, it's not quite as clear
and as simple as it made it seem on my
news channel at night, on my couch. There's a lot
more that's going on, but I, I even wanted to
just say, like, even just besides that one issue, I
just wanted to kind of remind everybody too that like,
You know, cause I think for Robert maybe the feeling
(35:40):
was this woman was saying things and nobody defended Trump
in that moment on the show, and I, I just
want to be clear that like
Two things. Number one, as pastors are, we're, we're trying
to encourage people where they're at in the Lord. It,
it is, whether they are, whichever way they vote or
view things, we want people, I mean, our, our end
(36:03):
goal for everything is that people would just get deeper
in a relationship with Jesus.
That's the most important thing that we do. And then too,
there is a there is a place where I think
is the church. We, we kind of wanna, and it
it it's been lost, but there's a, there's value to
regaining that role that the church should have as being
(36:24):
we're on the out there in a sense we're on
the outside of a lot of these matters, so that
there's moments when we
We might sound extremely conservative in some of our views,
and I mean that in a in a political way.
On the other hand, there might be other moments, other
issues that come up that we might sound extremely liberal,
and I mean that in a political sort of way. My,
(36:46):
my point is, is that the church has never been
a Republican or a Democrat. We're not binary. We wanna
see people know Jesus, we want to see people grow
closer to the Lord. And so we, I do agree
that there's a problem with like
There's either this, like, it's either you have to love
someone or hate them, and that that's a very, very
unhealthy sad way to live life. We're not, we're not
(37:09):
called that way, you know. The only person that deserves
that allegiance in the Bible is very clear and that
is Jesus.
Um, you're either for him or against him. Other than that,
you know, we're all just like human beings. So, um,
but these are such touchy, difficult things that cannot be
just like, there's not a, there's not one catchphrase that
solves these problems, and so we have to be OK
(37:31):
with that. And the other thing that just my last
thoughts of that is, gosh, I've been so I've been
looking at like just different people that have different ministries
than I do, and I realized how easy it is
to look at their ministry and go man.
Uh, if, if I wanted to be negative, Nancy, you know,
in this, it's like, I can't believe they're doing that.
I can't believe they're saying that. And then I realized, well,
(37:52):
maybe they have a different ministry. They're reaching different people
than I am. On the other hand, I hope people
would give me flexibility. Like you said, I live in
a border town. I want to be extremely thoughtful to people,
especially as it relates to immigration issues. And I hope,
I hope other Christians will give me space for that.
I haven't moved away from the gospel of Jesus.
(38:13):
Give me space to do ministry in as much as
we give other space, so we need to not see
things from that kind of political perspective alone, but really
from a from a Christian one. Yeah,
Speaker 1 (38:23):
good, good, and I think, I think a better um
negative Ned would be better than negative because yeah,
Speaker 2 (38:30):
I couldn't think of a good name.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Yeah, I get it.
Negative Ned. Don't be negative Ned. All right, uh, Robert,
thank you for your phone
call today.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Downer Dan, let's downer
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Dan. There you go.
That works too. Rudy and Hemetz, thank you for calling
Pastors Perspective. What's your question for the pastors today?
Um, my, uh, I have a question, but first of
all I wanna thank you for, um, what you guys
do and everything, and I wanna say I
Speaker 2 (39:00):
wanna
Speaker 1 (39:00):
comment
Speaker 2 (39:00):
on
Speaker 1 (39:01):
your, um, your little moment there about the, about the Mormons.
That was excellent nutshell, you said so much that was awesome. um, anyway,
my question is this, um.
The Seventh Day Adventist or rather Sabbath keepers, um, basically
I simply just wanna know what is it they do
on a Sabbath? A 7th Day Adventist or or Jews?
(39:26):
No, uh, Seventh Day Adventist and Sabbath keepers like here
in the country, I mean, I mean, there seems to
be a group that they call they're called Sabbath Keepers.
They're not really 1/7 Day Adventist, but you know they
keep it and um.
And my brother just changed and started doing that too, uh,
(39:47):
but I didn't, it's been a long time and I
just started I didn't bother to think to ask him,
but I wanna know, do you guys know what they
do because, uh, I went on a, I studied a
little bit on it, I read up on it and
and someone said they don't worship, they rest. Yeah. So yeah,
I was gonna say they don't do a whole lot.
I think they just kind of, uh, lay around.
(40:11):
I don't really know. I don't know what they do.
I know Seventh Day Adventist worship on, on, you know,
Saturday is their day to worship. Um, yeah, I'm, I'm
not sure about the, the Sabbath keepers. I haven't really
heard much about them.
It sounds like they're just kicking back.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Yeah,
Speaker 1 (40:31):
chilling. Um, so yeah, I was just wondering, now, are
you more asking in general like how we should observe
the Sabbath or what do you mean?
Well, um, I, I wanna know if, if they worship
on the Sabbath or they make it, um, it's holy
to them it's very, very special and I just was
wondering what is it they do, um, like I said
(40:53):
that one person said they they don't worship, they, they rest. Yeah.
Or rather maybe that's what I heard from a scholar
saying what the Israelites were ordered to do, not really worship.
And maybe the rest is part of the worship. Yeah, yeah,
and the Israelites, that, that is, that is a point
that I think is often overlooked that it was a day,
(41:13):
it was a day of rest, it was a day,
you know, everybody had a break, you weren't going out
in the field to, um, sow or to harvest and
you weren't um.
You weren't, you know, building a barn or or whatever you,
you were resting on that day. Um, there, there are
obviously some places where the Sabbath includes a worship component
(41:35):
to it, but I think just the, the weekly routine was,
and you know, always to remember that the Lord created
the earth in 6 days and on the 7th day
he rested. So, so God's in the picture, but you
know what people do today, uh, who knows? And I,
and I mean.
As Christians, as long as we're not looking for a,
(41:57):
a justification to keeping the Sabbath, we can figure out
ways that are gonna be uh healthy, help us develop
healthy rhythms of rest and family time and things like that,
and I know some Christians who who focus on that.
Uh, it, the problem is when you start making it
(42:17):
like mandatory, you know, everybody's got to do this, and
if you're not doing this, oh wow, you know, you're
not really
Really serving God, because you gotta do this and you
gotta do it this way, so.
Very good, Rudy, thank you for calling in today on
Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is our number. Here's Cathy listening in Honolulu. Aloha,
(42:41):
and thank you for calling in today, Cathy.
Hi, how can we help you? I'm, can you hear me? Yeah,
how's the weather in Hawaii? Well, that's a dumb question.
Oh, it's beautiful.
Right now is beautiful. Yes.
I had a question. I heard Brian and Cheryl talking
(43:04):
about a dove following her around and stuff, and she
gave it some kind of
Some meaning, and I don't like to spiritualize things, but
I've been recently um
Have these two doves.
They keep hovering over my head and coming for. I mean,
you know, once, 3 or 4 times it's happened and
(43:27):
people are saying things to me like, oh that's lucky
or oh something, something. And I said, well, I heard
something about it once and I, but I don't know.
I don't like to.
Yeah. What's the story, Brian? I wanted to see if
I can get a refresher on the story. Yeah, um,
whenever I tell Cheryl's stories, I always get in trouble
because I mess them up, you know, she's like, no, no,
(43:49):
that's not how it happened. Um, but there was something
going on, and I don't remember what it was that was,
you know, something was bothering her some, you know, maybe
somebody had insinuated that, you know, the Lord wasn't with
us or something.
I, I don't remember what that was, but I do
remember very specifically that there was this day where this
(44:12):
dove just literally kept like wouldn't leave Cheryl alone, and it,
you know, it wasn't coming up and you know, getting like,
you know, uh, lighting on her head or anything, but
it was, you know, it was getting very close to
her and this happened like 2 or 3 times throughout
a day.
(44:33):
And there there was finally a point, and it was unusual,
you know, birds usually they're usually getting, going the opposite
direction of, of where people are, and this stuff kind
of just kept coming, coming near her. So there just
came a point where she really felt like, I think
the Lord's just trying to remind me that he's with
me and that whatever the criticism was or whatever, she
(44:53):
was just able to to let it go because this
was God speaking to her that
Yeah, I'm with you. So yeah, it's just one of
those weird things, but it seemed at the moment like, yeah,
it seemed like the Lord was.
Maybe speaking there now is Cheryl gonna be here tomorrow
so that she can clarify just in case can get the,
she'll get, get the.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
That was a nice way of saying that Brian Perez.
You meant to say she could fix the story, but
you said clarify. That was
Speaker 1 (45:18):
good.
Oh man. All right, Kathy, thanks for calling in today
and tune in tomorrow because, uh, hopefully we'll get the, uh,
the rest, the, um, the, the clarification. Yeah, that's it.
Michael in Los Alamitos, hi.
Hey guys, how are you doing today? Doing great. You're
on with Brian Broderson and Phil Metzger. Thanks for calling
(45:40):
in today.
My pleasure. So I just, uh, I have, uh, the
question I have, it's kind of, it's very detailed, but I,
I'm sincerely going to try to make it as brief
as I can. So if you go to Hosea chapter 6,
verses 1 through 3, it refers to like how, um, uh,
basically it's, you know, let's say the Jews talking about
(46:02):
how they're gonna return back to the Lord and then
the Lord, well, after two days, like using the, the,
the one.
The 1000 years is like a day of the Lord principle.
Returns after the 2 days right on but says after
2 days he'll, he'll basically, I'm summarizing it right I'm
just not reading it. I'm just like not reading it verbatim. Anyways,
(46:22):
on the 3rd day, he's going to return. So and I,
and if you back up to the verse 15, uh,
chapter 5, verse 15, it refers to how, you know,
Yahweh returns back to his place.
Because, uh, basically because of essentially because the Jews rejection
of him, right? And that's when, and I mean, and
the way I, the way it kind of like some,
(46:43):
it's almost like a, a jigsaw puzzle, right, where you
see how Jesus came for the lost, how, you know,
the lost sheep of Israel. He goes back, he, you know,
he sends into the clouds after his resurrection. His command
to his disciples was to go make disciples from the nation, right?
Not necessarily specifically.
You know, the house of Judah, right, it's specifically the
(47:03):
nations which incidentally,
Um, I don't know if you recall back in the
end of Genesis when Jacob said, like, kind of gives
these various prophecies over, you know, the different, his different
sons and, and over Joseph's sons, he has his right
hand over Aphriim and left hand over Manasa, even though
Araim was the youngest one and he
That Ephraim you basically be swallowed up into the nations, right?
(47:25):
And I know Ephraim is always like a, kind of
like symbolized for the nations as well as Israel, right?
It's kind of like symbolic of that. So you kind
of see how like there's like the two different houses
still in play there and then. So what's your main
question for us, Michael, because we don't have a whole
lot of time left on the program.
Yeah, sorry about that. OK, so I'll get to my point.
Do you guys see the, the 3rd day, I mean,
(47:48):
based on an approximate timeline when Jesus was born, died,
and resurrected, the, uh, the end of that 2nd day
coming within the next, I mean, let's just say within
the next, you know, 8 to 10 years approximately.
Um, well, it's a, yeah, this is a passage that, um, I,
I am, I think Phil's probably as well familiar with
(48:11):
and um.
It, it is an interesting passage for sure, and I
do it the hard thing is, I don't think you
can dogmatically without any uh reservation whatsoever, say this is
a prophecy of a 2000 year period.
(48:34):
Um, in which the Lord has forsaken Israel and then
he's going to restore them on the 3rd day that
entering into the 3000 years. Although some have done that,
it could mean that, and I think, yeah, that's, that's really, it's,
it's fascinating. I mean, you know, when you look at it, just,
you know, after 2 days he will revive us on
(48:55):
the 3rd day he will restore us, that we may
live in his presence. I mean, is it a is
it a literal after 2 days and then the 3rd day, um.
Yeah, you know, so it's hard to see how there's a, a,
a literal day fulfillment there. So it seems like, wow,
this kind of fits with, and it's convenient for us
(49:17):
because it's been about 2000 years, you know, that Jesus
has been away. And so that makes perfect sense to us. Uh,
but I mean, think of, think of Christians 500 years ago,
you know, they're reading that 500 years ago and they're going, OK.
Well, we got another 500 years before we get to
the 2 days, if the 2 days represent 2000 years. So,
(49:38):
so anyway, all, all I'm saying is it might be that,
but we can't say with absolute certainty, like we can
say other things with certainty. So, so I, I, when,
when I would teach us, I would just say, wow,
this is interesting.
And, and, you know, check this out. You know, I'm
(49:59):
gonna leave. I'm gonna go back to my place until
they seek my face. Wow, this sounds just like what,
you know, Jesus came and he then he left and
he went back and he hasn't come back yet, but
he's gonna come back. So anyway, have you, have you
thought about this thought it what
Speaker 2 (50:15):
what's your take? Yeah, I mean, I, I think I've landed.
I think I've landed where you are on that too. I,
I think.
Kind of the more that we like um grab on
to certain versions of dispensationalism, this becomes a little bit
more um
Like this is it, this is the thing, you know, um, and, uh,
(50:37):
I think the more we kind of just go, OK, wait.
But is there other ways of not only looking at that,
but maybe, you know, I'm especially interested in the idea
that like we, we really don't know exactly when, we
just know where to be ready. And I, I, I
kind of hit that same point where I was like, gosh,
it seems like everything points to our time. Isn't that convenient,
(50:58):
you know, it, it seemed a bit convenient to me.
And yet every generation has been called to the same, like,
holly expect expectant living. Yeah.
Because of that, it made me just go, gosh, I,
I think, I think for me, Jose is 6133 is
super exciting. First of all, just a great passage period,
so beautiful, um, but in terms of its relevance in
(51:21):
the last days.
I think this will be one of those where if
it is, we're all gonna go, oh my gosh, that
was so cool. There's gonna be so much of the
Bible when we're, when we're caught up to be with
the Lord or we die and go to be with
the Lord. There's gonna be so many passages, we're gonna
be like, no way. That fits better than I ever
even imagined. Like, it's gonna be, it's gonna be.
(51:44):
I remember reading the Bible the first time and like
having things, my eyes open in ways I never even
thought possible. I can't imagine what that's gonna be like
when I get to heaven. I, I imagine Hosea 6
will be one of those.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
And wouldn't it be great if that is actually the interpretation?
I mean, I love, I love that possibility that that
is the case. So, hey, maybe so. Let's go. We'll
wait and see.
Michael, thanks for your phone call today on Pastor's Perspective
to San Bernardino, we go. Here is Anthony, who's watching
us on YouTube. What's going on, Anthony? How can we
(52:16):
help you?
Hi, good afternoon, pastors. Uh, I got a two-part question.
Number one, I can't find anywhere in the Bible that
talks about, uh, not being able to listen to secular music, um,
because I, I like listening to, to allies. And also, um,
(52:36):
number 2 is, I've got a son that is going
through a divorce with his wife. His wife, uh, it
left him and filed for divorce.
Uh, she's, she's going to church, she proclaims to be
a Christian, but her fruit doesn't, uh, proclaim that, and, uh,
but she's, uh, she's a, a leader, uh, in the
(52:59):
praise and worship team at church. Um, now, I wanted
to find out your perspective if, uh, that's OK for
her to be, uh, doing ministry, uh, when she's going through.
All of this, uh, and, and, uh, just, uh, being
really mean. Does the pastor of her church know about
(53:22):
what's going on?
Yes, as a matter of fact, uh, the, the, they
went for counseling with the pastor and uh the, the
pastor just seemed to be one-sided, uh, on, on the
whole thing. OK. Phil, what do you say?
Speaker 2 (53:38):
Yeah, well, your, your first question is easier to answer
than your second one, Anthony. So, uh, your first one's
a little bit clearer there, you know, can we listen
to secular music? The, the answer is, is, can you
listen to secular music? And it sounds like you answered
that question and your answer was, yes, you can. And
if it's not taking away from your relationship with God.
(53:59):
You know, when, when we think of secular music, let's
not go to the like most evil, darkest, terrible music,
you know, uh, not that that's that that's not all.
We
Speaker 1 (54:09):
talked about Ozzy Osbourne yesterday,
oh right,
Speaker 2 (54:12):
OK, the Prince of Darkness, or isn't that what he
was nickname and all, yeah, yeah, so, you know, obviously
there's like a, like, like maybe I think for a
lot of people secular music might represent like
Just kind of a pull back into their past. And
I know for a lot of Christians that that first,
when they first come to Christ, they do kind of
gotta move away from those things because it's like a
(54:35):
lure back in. I totally get that. So even if
the music's totally non, like, not a, not dark and
not evil, but it just pulls you back in your
thought processes back and your mind back, and you're like,
I can't listen to that right now. Um, I'm a
new Christian and I can't, I can't do that.
I absolutely respect that a million times. Then don't listen
(54:56):
to that. But as it relates to like, is there
a Bible verse and is there like a mandate for
all Christians, the, the, the answer is there is a
Bible verse like that you have to do what you
know before your own conscience to do that is right.
Speaker 1 (55:09):
And Pastor Brian, if you could answer the other question,
I know you can't hear the music, Phil, but, um,
got about 30 seconds. Um, yeah, the other question is
a little more difficult to answer because on the surface,
of course, that sounds like.
That that doesn't sound right. But you know, um, we
only know the side of the story you're telling us. So, um,
I think that we would have to know a bit
(55:31):
more and you know, I think when somebody goes through,
it kind of depends, you know, if the person going
through the struggle is kind of the victim in a
bad relationship, and I think we, we want to encourage
them by allowing them to continue in ministry.
If they're the one who's causing the problem, then that's
another story. So, but hard to say. Yes, indeed. All right,
(55:55):
you guys, thanks for listening. Thanks for watching. We'll talk
to you tomorrow on Pastor's Perspective.
Popular Podcasts
Fudd Around And Find Out
UConn basketball star Azzi Fudd brings her championship swag to iHeart Women’s Sports with Fudd Around and Find Out, a weekly podcast that takes fans along for the ride as Azzi spends her final year of college trying to reclaim the National Championship and prepare to be a first round WNBA draft pick. Ever wonder what it’s like to be a world-class athlete in the public spotlight while still managing schoolwork, friendships and family time? It’s time to Fudd Around and Find Out!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.