August 7, 2025 • 56 mins
Pastors' Perspective is a one-hour call-in program where listeners can call in and get answers to questions about the Bible, Christianity, family, and life. The program is live Monday through Friday from 3:00 PM - 4:00 PM Pacific. You can call 888-564-6173 to ask your questions.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:17):
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez.
We are here live on this Thursday afternoon until 4 o'clock,
ready to answer the questions you have about the Bible,
the Christian faith, just about anything on your mind, give
us a call. If you tried getting on yesterday and
you couldn't get through, today would be a great day
to call. 888-564-6173 is the number. You can also submit
(00:41):
your questions online, but that's no fun. We want to
talk to you. We want to interact with you.
So call us at 888-564-6173. Now, we realize, lots of
you can't call right now, maybe you're at work or whatever,
so we do have that other avenue, uh, but we
prefer you to call in, kind of like church. Church
(01:03):
meets on Sunday mornings for the most part, right? And
there's people who watch online or listen to one of
the three church services that we have here on the radio,
and that's great, you know.
And it's maybe a good supplement or maybe if you
can't get out of the house, that's what it's there for,
but we highly recommend that you attend church, because church
(01:24):
needs you and you need church. So, kind of the
same thing here with pastor's perspective, I would say. You
can just be there, you can participate, you can
Mail in your questions, but we want to talk to you.
I should land the plane now and introduce the people
who are going to be answering your questions. We've got
Phil Metzger, the pastor of Calvary San Diego. How are you, Phil?
I need help. I'm doing, I'm doing good. No, no, no.
(01:45):
You never need help. You're doing, you're doing great. And
you're saying good things, so don't even hesitate. Don't feel
bad about it. But glad to be with you guys.
Glad for Thursday, pastor's perspective. Love it. Yeah, John Huang's
here too. He's the pastor of Christ Point City Church
on Huntington Beach. What's going on, John?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I'm just happy to be here with the two of you,
and I just wanted to say amen to your little
mini sermon. I think it's right on my soapbox. No,
I think it's beautiful. I mean, it's, it's uh a
beautiful application of Hebrews 10 about not forsaking the assembling together.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yes indeed, indeed.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Good word, Brian Perez.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Thank you. If you're watching on Facebook, YouTube, or Instagram,
I am getting off my soapbox right now, or at
least I'm trying to. Oh, my chair won't adjust. That
would have been a cool little visual if I could
make my chair sink, but it's not sinking, so never mind.
All right, 888-564-6173. We are going to start with a
question that was sent in online.
So it's almost like, forget everything I just said. But
uh no, Sharon wrote in from Fort Lauderdale, that's in Florida,
(02:40):
and uh she says, thank you so much for this
program and your obedience to God. My Bible study group
is going through the book of Joshua, and a few
of us noticed.
A pattern with water up to this point, the Red Sea,
the Jordan, Moses being placed in a river as a child.
Is there a central theme to what water represents? Is
it connected to purification or baptism at all? John, what
(03:01):
would you say to Sharon?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Well, I, I would encourage um Sharon to um when
you're reading the Bible, um, first you want to take
it at face value. So water is H2O and um
and it definitely does, um, you know, establish the setting
for a lot of these stories that we read in scripture,
but it is also interesting though that um when you
(03:26):
go to the New Testament, you see some application.
Of how water is used as a metaphor um for
different things, um, you know, where the Holy Spirit, um,
you know, through the apostles and the New Testament writers
they give to us spiritual applications for water. I mean
those are the places where we can pause and say,
all right, let's let's let's see Jesus in this moment,
(03:48):
you know, like for example, um, when um the children
of Israel were crossing the Red Sea in 1 Corinthians
chapter 10.
Um, Paul makes the application that um the the nation
of Israel were being baptized into Moses and then he, um,
then brings the spiritual application for the church that it
represents our baptism into Christ Jesus. Um, another instance would be.
(04:13):
Um, when, uh, when Moses struck the rock and water
came out to refresh the people, Paul again in 1 Corinthians,
he speaks of that rock as being Christ. And then
Jesus himself takes on the theme of the water, um,
in John chapter 4 as well as in John chapter 7,
(04:33):
where Jesus speaks of himself as a living water.
And um and just all of those references obviously would
trigger memories um you know with um these Hebrew Bible
students of what they see in scripture and one of
the beautiful things is like when you, when you look
at how Jesus is portrayed for example in the Gospel
(04:54):
of Matthew.
Um, Matthew again inspired by the Holy Spirit, he's definitely, um,
telling the story of Jesus through a particular framework and
we see that Jesus himself, um, is the true Israel
and so beginning with the genealogy, you know, we have
that he's the son of Abraham and David.
(05:15):
And uh and then when you start looking at just
for example, the opening chapters of Matthew and you overlap
it with um the Old Testament story, it's amazing.
Um, how many similarities we see, for example, we see
how in Israel's infancy in the book of Exodus, Pharaoh
seeks to murder all of, um, Israel's first born males.
(05:38):
And so in the story of Jesus, Herod seeks to
kill all the Hebrew boys born in Bethlehem trying to
eliminate the Messiah. And then we see, um, the exodus
happening where Israel, Hosea chapter 11 verse 1 speaks of
how out of Egypt he called his son.
Um, but then Matthew then cites that same passage and
(05:58):
says how Jesus was then brought out of Egypt after
he had fled, um, Herod's plan to murder him and
then you see how Israel went through the Red Sea
and how Jesus then was baptized in the Jordan and
then through the Red Sea Israel went into the wilderness
and in the gospel Jesus from Jordan goes into the wilderness.
Israel was there um.
(06:20):
God said that he sent them there to test them
for 40 years, um, and we see that Jesus was
tested for 40 days in the wilderness, and then we see, um,
Israel up on Mount Sinai or at Mount Sinai to
receive the law. Then in Matthew's Gospel, Jesus goes up
a mountain and gives them the sermon on the Mount
where he gives the true meaning of the law. And
(06:41):
then just beautiful parallels that we see.
And um but those are like obvious clear things that
we can see as we go through scripture. So we wanna,
we wanna, as we read scripture we wanna um first
take it at face value, but where the Bible gives
us the green light to think deeper and to draw
(07:01):
some spiritual application, I think that that's where it's um
really beautiful to be able to think and to pray
and to draw conclusions from that.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Sharon, excuse me, Sharon, thank you for sending in your
question on uh Kwave.com's Pastor's perspective page. That's a way
that you can get your question to us. Also on
the Pastor's perspective Facebook Messenger or by DMing us on
the pastor's perspective Instagram. You can also scan the QR
code if you're watching on
Facebook, YouTube or Instagram, and that takes you right to
the page where you can submit your question. But we
(07:31):
want to talk to you, just like we're going to
talk to Debbie right now who is listening in New
Jersey on the Kwave app. Hello, Debbie, welcome to Pastor's Perspective.
Thanks for calling 888-564-6173.
Hi, and thank you for taking my call. Uh, so
I have a heart-wrenching question. Um, my stepdaughter has, uh,
(07:53):
made a demand on me and my husband that, uh,
we can no longer share Jesus to talk about the
Bible to our grandchildren. And if we do, then we
can't see them. So, every bone in my body is
just screaming, like,
No, I, I, I, I can't do this. But is it, my,
(08:15):
I guess my, I wanna know like, if I give
in to her, am I denying the Lord? Hm, Phil,
what do you tell Debbie?
Um, gosh, Debbie, I hate that you're in that situation,
and I'm sure you hate it more than I do. So, oh,
that's such a bummer. And as a grandpa of 5,
I just can't even imagine what you're feeling on that. So,
(08:36):
so let me just answer the question you just asked though, that,
that quick one of like, am I denying the Lord? No,
you are not denying the Lord. You're not denying the
Lord to, you know, to, if you, if you did
decide to
Kind of honor your stepdaughter and her husband's wishes. That's
not denying the Lord. So, I wanna get that out
(08:59):
of the out of the air first.
Then what do I do, right? Should I do this?
Should I not? I think you're gonna have a little
bit more um.
Opportunity with your grandkids, if you respect your, um, your,
your kids right now. In other words, what I mean
is if you were to just kind of like, no, I,
(09:21):
I have to share the Lord and I doesn't matter
what they say, I think you're gonna end up in
a situation where you're gonna lose relationship and so you, you,
you got that one moment, but then you lost all
the next moments.
I think it's OK for you to, and I, and
I say this very, very, like, I, again, I say
this as a grandpa. I say this as a grandpa.
I say like, you wanna keep relationship. You wanna hold
(09:44):
relationship with your kids and with your grandkids. And so
maybe this is where they're at right now, and you're
gonna pray like crazy, I'm sure you already are, for
grace and that God would really change your, your, your,
your daughter's heart so that
She would allow you guys to share, but that's gonna
come by you kind of respecting her right now. And
(10:06):
there's ways for you to still represent Christ and to
and to be just a solid amazing grandma and Christian grandma.
Um, and just expect that this season is gonna pass.
And what you don't wanna do is like, be in
such a hurry because you're afraid you're, you're not being
a good witness of Christ. Um, I would say, hold that,
pray for your family, and believe that God's gonna open
(10:28):
those doors, and by you
Expecting them now, that door is gonna open. Let's just
believe that God will open those doors, but it's a
terrible thing right now. I'm sorry to hear this. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah,
Speaker 2 (10:40):
I, I agree with Phil, um, in that what you
don't want to do is, um, have that door shut. Um,
you know, I, I've had um some really heartbreaking conversations
with grandparents where their children have just completely shut them out.
Of their grandchildren's lives and um and and it's just
(11:03):
it's just mind boggling for me to ever um to
imagine that um especially to um to push, you know,
some of the closest relationships away simply because they have
such strong feelings about um Jesus. And so, um, yeah, you,
you don't want that door to be shut, and I
(11:24):
think like what Phil was saying, um.
Our our first and foremost um weapon that we have
is prayer because God is the one who changes minds
and hearts, um, but praying for your grandchildren, praying for
your um this situation but also um being proactively thinking
um of creative ways.
(11:46):
That you can be a gospel presence in their life, um, like, uh,
you know, like Phil said, I think that one of
the most powerful things that your grandchildren are going to
see as they continue to grow is the stark contrast
between a life that loves Jesus and a life that doesn't.
(12:06):
And um and you get to model that um for
your grandchildren and so they might be too young to
know how to articulate into words, you know, grandma, grandpa,
why are you so different than mom and dad but
as time goes on and as long as you have
proximity um to your grandchildren and you're praying for them,
(12:27):
you're loving on them, and there's some creative ways that
you can.
Um, you know, um, show them that, um, that you
are different because of your faith in Jesus, um, then
there's gonna come a time that your grandchildren are gonna
look at your life and say, I don't really know
how to put my finger on it, but I do
know that my grandma and grandpa are different and that
(12:49):
might in that time things situations could be different that
the conversations could be wide open for you to then
lead into um those moments of talking, but at the
moment you don't want to shut yourself out.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
What do you think, Debbie?
Yeah, it, it's really hard because we're, we're gonna have
to backtrack, like, uh, you know, since they've been small, we,
we've been just pouring in the Lord to her and
she has said that we're trying to brainwash her, but
I mean, we're together, we, we pray together, you know,
she loves her Bible stories. She watches the Super Book.
(13:22):
I sing to her all the time, so it's gonna
be very, very hard for me.
Because I love the Lord so much and I, you know,
I know, I know that they love them. It's, it's,
you know, it's gonna be really hard for me, but, um,
Speaker 2 (13:34):
well, I'll tell you what, um, yeah, here's the beautiful thing, Debbie,
what you, um, have already poured into your grandkids, it
doesn't return void, right?
Um, God said that his word never returns void. So
you've planted seeds in your grandchildren's hearts and minds and
it's germinating and it's gonna grow and I wouldn't be
(13:54):
surprised if the Lord, um, just wouldn't, um, you know
that that you'll find that um the Lord will use
your grandchildren to actually start ministering um to their parents.
You know, last night we had a real interesting.
Um, situation that happened, I was, um, I was open
air preaching and there was a guy that, um, didn't
(14:18):
like what I was saying, he didn't like what I
was doing and so he just went on a rampage
and he just started yelling, he started threatening, he started,
you know, saying all sorts of stuff, um, that, uh.
That apparently what other people said is that like he
he was threatening me to to do physical harm and
(14:41):
so um so he sat behind me but then there
was one of the girls um the daughters of of
one of the gals that came.
And uh and she, you know, she loves the Lord,
but she's little and uh and she's fearless, she'll just
go up and talk with anybody. So as this guy
is just just screaming threats, you know, um, this little
(15:02):
girl's mom was watching her daughter walk up to this
guy and she still kept that distance, but then she
started talking with this guy and the moment she started
talking with them, everything changed.
He was, you know, as, as, you know, all of
a sudden he wasn't angry anymore and, and he started
calming down and he started being open for dialogue and,
and I just thought what a powerful thing because I
(15:25):
was gonna go talk to him after but here's this
little girl that went up and started a conversation with
them and next thing you know God used her as
a mechanism to start quieting him down and softening his heart.
And so.
Um, I don't recommend that for every parent parent to
just have their kids go up to some, you know,
(15:45):
loud stranger, but in this situation, this is just the
way things played out, but I just thought it was
so beautiful how God used this little child, um, to
actually soften this um this hard heart at that moment
and for what you've done.
Um, you might be surprised to see how God uses
your grandchildren to be the key, the mechanism to maybe
(16:09):
soften the hearts of your children.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Debbie, thanks for calling us today here on Pastor's Perspective.
888-564-6173 is the number to call us today. And here
is Spencer, who's listening on FM 107.9 in Riverside. Hey, Spencer,
thanks for calling in today.
Hi, Pastor. Thank you so much for taking my call. Um,
I actually asked a question online the other day, but
(16:34):
I didn't add a whole lot of detail to it. Um,
but I have a different question today, and to sum
it up, I just think that I'm engaged currently and
we have 3 children, but
We'll be together for 6 years in August, and I just,
to put it short, I don't think I'm equally yoked
(16:55):
to my partner and I'm trying to not be um
Super quick to just jump to conclusions and just end things,
but I've been praying a lot about it, and I
know the devil is really keen on separating people that
are trying to be godly, but
I tell him about praying with me and reading the
(17:15):
Bible with me, and he just never really, he says
he wants to, but he never makes action to it
and I just wanted to
See you guys thought about that because I I've been
praying about it a lot and I just, I feel torn.
I don't know what to do. What are the age ranges,
excuse me, age ranges of the children? Couldn't get that out.
(17:36):
My oldest is 74, and then 16 months. OK.
Phil, what would you say to Spencer? Yeah, Spencer, thanks
for calling. Yeah it's a, it's a we're glad you called.
It's this is important, so.
So I'm what I'm hearing you say, and this might
require a little dialogue here, um, is that you are
a believer, but you feel like your fiancee, with whom
(17:59):
you share three kids, is not a believer. Am I
summing that up best
He was raised Catholic and we're attending a Christian church
currently and I just don't, I don't feel like he's
as on fire as I am. That's why I said
I don't feel he's equally, you know, but yeah, I
(18:19):
sure in terms of that phrase, thank you, that that that's,
that's helpful.
I, I kind of wanna help you see it maybe
from where he might be coming from, as it relates to,
it seems like maybe the Lord's tugging on your heart
right now, because, you know, honestly, like, it doesn't seem
like either of you were really walking with the Lord.
I mean, you've, you've had these three beautiful, I'm sure kids.
(18:43):
You're not married, and now you're at this place where
you guys are gonna get married and you wanna walk
with the Lord, and he doesn't seem as interested. Maybe
there's been a little bit of a diverging. I think
from his perspective, you also have to understand, maybe, maybe, and,
and again, I would encourage you, I, I'm making statements
and you can tell me, hey, you're way off and
(19:04):
how dare you and all, but I'm gonna venture on
this just a little bit, Spencer, and forgive me if
this sounds a little bit harsh, but
It might be that there hasn't been a lot of
spirituality in your relationship in these last several years. And
as a result of that, now you're wanting more spirituality,
and really he's not. I don't know that I would
break up with this person because you're afraid that you're
(19:25):
not equally yoked. It sounds like you guys have been
fairly equally yoked. Neither of you were really making your
relationship with God the priority. You've had a, you've had
a life together.
Um, I would be praying for him to wanna come
into a relationship with the Lord. I'd hope you guys
would get into a church that could maybe provide some
good counseling. Pre-marital counseling would be really great. Um, I, I,
(19:49):
I would be really careful though to just kind of,
you know, if, if you're not enjoying the relationship and
you don't feel like it's healthy and it's not good,
I'm not sure about the unequally yoked part as much
at this moment. I would encourage you to jump into
the church that you're at.
Um, and if you're not, we'd love to help recommend
a place where you could go and you guys could
get premarital counseling. Um, I, it sounds like maybe he
(20:13):
does need the Lord, but I, I would say, and
I can say this for me, uh, and I've been
a Christian a long time, I need the Lord too.
So I would encourage both of you. It sounds like
you both need the Lord. The Lord's wanting to get
a hold of you both. It sounds like the marriage
is making this kind of open door for deeper spirituality,
and let's use that.
But I, I don't know that I would throw that
(20:33):
verse that he's not equally yoked. I think that you
guys need some, maybe some good counsel would help. What
do you think, Spencer?
Yeah, that I, I would think so too. I just,
I really want him to be more on board with it,
and I've been feeling a lot of conviction, I feel
like from the Holy Spirit because I really, I've been
trying to nudge him and push him in that direction.
(20:55):
And it's just like he's not really responding and I
really wanted, I wanna, I wanna delve deeper and be
more spiritual and make God my priority, I mean.
I've been trying to read the Bible every day, and
I listen to you guys every day on the way
to work and the way after work. Oh. That's great. Yeah,
you that that that's awesome, and that helps. Thanks for
(21:15):
sharing that, Spencer. You know, your own maybe humility right
now with your fiance would probably go a really long way.
Where you could say, you know, I haven't really been
doing that great with the Lord, but it does matter
to me, and I really would like that. And then
that could be a journey you both go on together.
I think if he feels like, and if you feel
like you're coming from this like really deep place with
(21:37):
the Lord and he's nowhere, I, I'm not sure that
that's really the story that you two have been having.
It sounds like maybe you both have been kind of
just in a, in a, in a kind of figuring
things out space and now you're ready.
And I would walk with humility with your fiancee and say,
I am the one that's wanting a deeper walk with
the Lord now, and forgive me for maybe I could
(21:58):
have been a better witness and so on and so forth.
And maybe the Lord would use that to open up
some really, really good doors, Spencer. There's also the part
of me that wonders, and I'm not at all advocating
for unequally yoked relationships, but we hear stories sometimes where
People do get married and both of them profess, let's
just say in Spencer's case, just as an example, where
(22:19):
let's just say Spencer's fiancee was this.
Quote unquote on fire godly man who sings on the
worship team and he prays 3 hours a day, this, that, whatever,
and then the moment they get married, all of a
sudden it's like, OK, now I can be who I
really am, and he's a slob, he doesn't want to
go to church on Sundays anymore. Nothing. Just goes out
the window. It's just like, wait a minute, did I
(22:41):
marry a, a fake person here? So is that really
the most, uh, is that the best verse to use
about being unequally yoked?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Well, I mean in in those situations, I mean my
my response would be um exactly what Phil said I
would highly recommend premarital counseling and um you know, Spencer
are you when you say that you and your fiancee
go to church, are you both actively attending church currently?
Yeah. OK, um, my, my encouragement to you is um
(23:16):
to connect with the pastoral staff there and um and
seek to schedule um a meeting and and hopefully um
you guys could um get some time together with a
pastor there at the church um and go through some
pre-marital counseling because these are things that you need to
talk through. I mean, because there's so many issues that obviously.
(23:39):
You know, listening to um you share your side of
how you're feeling that the relationship is going. I mean, I, my,
my assumption is it's probably deeper and more complex than
than at least for us on this end of the call, um,
even realize or understand and so this is gonna take
(23:59):
some time um to to work through and to talk
things out, you know, I think that one of the
things that frustrate a lot of marriages.
Is um when spouses walk into marriage and they put
on their superhero costume and they think I'm gonna be
the savior in this relationship and it's gonna be my
job to change my spouse and so we have all
(24:21):
of these ideals of what we want our spouse to
look like and where the frustration comes in.
Is no matter how hard the husband is trying to
change the wife or how hard the wife is trying
to change the husband um rather than seeing um a
willing compliance you're met with resistance and then it flares
(24:41):
up and and uh and and a lot of it
has to do with our own pride it's it's like
we we want the other person to change because um
we're we're setting ourselves to be the compass of where
the relationship is supposed to go.
And then, you know, then the other challenging thing is
that we define what we think an on fire Christian
(25:02):
is supposed to look like, you know, and, and sometimes
we
We look on social media and we see like thousands
of people with their hands raised and you know they're
all standing and they're singing from the top of their
lung and and we see a we see a sound
bite but the question is, is like how are those
(25:22):
same people when they go back home? How are those
same people when they're at church.
Um, and so, so sometimes we, we have an ideal
in our minds of what real spiritual passionate worship is
supposed to look like and devotion to Christ, but the
reality is, even for someone like me that's been walking
with the Lord for over 50 years, I find myself, um,
(25:45):
in in terms of like excitement, it ebb and flows.
You know, there are some days I am like so
like I cannot wait for the next morning to open
up my Bible and read another 10 chapters and then
there's other seasons where it's like I am like really
working hard at trying to read a few verses, you know,
and but the love of Jesus and the relationship you
(26:07):
know with Jesus remains constant. So, um, I, I would
just say that before you give up on anything like
Phil was saying.
Um, this is where relationships are complex. Relationships are dealing with,
you're walking into a you're in a relationship, but you're
walking into, um, a possible marriage where it's two sinners
(26:30):
that are gonna be spending the rest of their lives together.
And and every sinner needs a savior like Phil was
saying and to know how to grow in that relationship.
This is where getting some guidance, getting some coaching, getting
some mentorship from people that have been walking with the
Lord for a while they've been married for a while
(26:51):
their their life is fruitful and they're flourishing that could
be really helpful. So I would encourage you to do
that and, and if your church feels like.
I, we're not equipped to do stuff like that. You know,
I actually went on Calvary San Diego's website, Phil, and
I saw that you actually have a section there where
you recommend like counseling um services and ministry, and I thought, man,
(27:13):
that is so spot on.
Like, I mean for you guys as a church to
recognize there there's what we know we can do as
a pastoral staff and there's what we know we can't
do as a pastoral staff but we know people that
are part of the kingdom of God that are able
to do stuff um that we can't. I, I, I
love that about your church and I love that about
(27:34):
your heart, Phil. so, um, so if your church doesn't
provide that, man, I would encourage you go on to
Calvary San Diego's website.
And um and and connect there and get some guidance
there and maybe Phil you could speak a little bit
more into that.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Yeah, we actually, we hired, I have on staff a,
a counselor. Oh, that's amazing, she's a therapist, uh, on-fire Christian,
finishing her PhD in psychology and marriage and family. Listen,
there is a point when we like, I think as pastors,
I think we're in a generation where we realize.
We are not one-stop shops for everything. Um, we are not,
(28:12):
you know, we can Google as much as anybody else,
but that does not make us qualified in certain areas.
And so, you know, I, I encourage my pastors here, like,
meet with people, do marriage counseling, do it all. But
when you realize you've hit a wall, we have resource
beyond our capacity. And so we work well with many,
(28:32):
many therapists in our area and they value the fact
that a church loves them and cares about what they
do and.
So I highly recommend churches to consider that, and I
definitely think, Spencer, you guys should, you guys should be
looking into that. The Calvary San Diego website, by the way,
is CalvarySD.com, and you can find out about the counseling
resources by clicking about counseling resources. So, uh, check that out, CalvarySD.com.
(28:58):
And uh we're gonna take a break here in just
a little bit on Pastor's perspective. My name is Brian Perez.
We've got Phil Metzger and John Huang here to answer
the questions you have about the Bible, the Christian faith,
and we would love to hear from you at 888-564-6173.
Anthony, Gloria, Robert, Pete, Pat, everyone else who wants to
talk to Phil and John today, we will try to
(29:20):
get to as many of your calls as possible, and
we're gonna keep the phone lines open for another 30 minutes. 888-564-6173.
Let's hear your questions.
(30:19):
All right, we are back on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is
the number to call. Phil Metzger from Calvary San Diego
is here. So is John Huang from Christ Point City
Church in Huntington Beach. Phil Metzger, what time are your
services at your church? We, um, we do Sunday morning
at 10 a.m.
(30:40):
And then now that the uh fall is about to
kind of kick off, we do, um, small groups. We
call them connect groups during the week. So Monday through Friday,
we have connect groups, and then Sunday morning is our
one main service, 10 a.m. Very good. CalvarySD.com is where
you can get more information, like, you know, the address,
so you know where to go. John Huang, Christ Point
City Church, when do you guys meet?
Speaker 2 (31:02):
We meet on Sunday mornings at 10 a.m. because we
want to be just like Phil.
And um I I'm about, I'm about to go after
this program, buy a kit to just add color to
my hair so I could look as cool as Phil does.
I I can't do the beard. I wish I could.
(31:23):
I would do anything. I'm thinking about maybe even experiencing
with the chia pet seeds and just like just plastering
my face with it.
But man, if you, if you, if you don't know
what Phil Metzger looks like, I, it's worth getting onto
YouTube just to see his face because he's one of.
Those humans it just ages so well. I'm jealous. Yeah,
(31:44):
so we meet at um Lake Park in Huntington Beach.
So we're actually a brand new church. Um, September will
be officially a year for us, um, since we started
Sunday mornings and um and so we are at um
in downtown Huntington Beach at Lake Park and you can
go to our website at ChristPointcity.com and learn more about that.
(32:06):
Um, but another thing that we're doing is for the
remaining 3 Wednesday nights.
At Huntington Beach Pier, um, at the Plaza, so if
you go to the pier, there's a, um, there's a
plaza that has um tiered seating areas and um uh
a couple of weeks ago God just really began um
(32:29):
just rekindling my heart um in in the area of
evangelism and you know, I.
Um, I, I know that Phil and I like we, um,
we've got a history with this, but in some of
my best memories was being in Coish far with Phil.
I remember we were in the street open air preaching
and it was just a downpour and I was playing
(32:49):
my guitar and, and everybody had scattered, but Phil ran
out with an umbrella and he's standing over me and
it's just the two of us and it is just
this downpour as we're singing about Jesus and.
But open air preaching has just been a part of
our stories and God just rekindled that. My problem though
has been open air preaching has become so gimmicky, and
(33:13):
so I think a lot of times people have just
gotten burned out, especially at Huntington Beach Pier where um
they have had so much of the gimmicky kind of evangelism.
So I started thinking about how Jesus, um, that the
gospels tell us that he taught.
He, he, it was opener preaching, but he taught about
the kingdom of God. So, um, I, I really just
(33:37):
felt like, man, I wanna take a step of faith
and go down to Huntington Beach Pier Plaza and start
teaching people about Jesus using the Gospel of John. So
last night we had our first night and it was
so sweet.
Um, and, uh, we've got 3 more Wednesday nights, so
I'd love to invite any of you that are out
there that live in the Huntington Beach area. If you'd
(33:58):
like to join us on Wednesday evenings, we start like
last night we started at 6:30 ended at 7:30 just
for an hour. We'll start with like 3 songs and
then um I, I.
Expound a passage from the Gospel of John, but it's
more of an evangelistic message and it was so sweet
to see people um that saw the group that was
(34:21):
with us and so they felt comfortable enough to stay
and listen like they stayed for the whole thing.
And then afterwards when I invited people um to come
and talk with us like people came up and talked
and we were able to give them a gospel of
John and just converse with them and and one guy said,
so you're gonna be doing this next Wednesday, right? I
wanna come back next Wednesday night and this guy doesn't
(34:42):
know the Lord, you know, and so, so it's just
uh a way that we're we're thinking this is.
Um, an opportunity for us to tell people about Jesus,
but also for people that show up to connect them
with people that might come walking by and then they
could walk into conversations like that. But I mean, I'm
gonna prepare you. Don't expect speakers don't expect bands, don't,
(35:04):
I mean it is, you know, it is just me
pumping air out of my diaphragm, speaking as loud as
I can expound.
the gospel of John, but wanting to introduce people to Jesus.
So that's Wednesday nights at 6:30 p.m. at Huntington Beach
Pier Plaza.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
How
fun. All right, 888-564-6173. Where is Pat? Pat hung up. OK,
so let's go to Anthony, who's watching us on Facebook
in Los Angeles. Welcome to Pastor's perspective, Anthony. Thanks for
calling 888-564-6173.
Hey, hey, how are you guys
doing, Pastors?
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Doing well, thank you.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
So, uh, just, you know,
Speaker 2 (35:44):
it's just kind of a question that I had like,
so when I read through the Bible sometimes, like in
my own studies, um,
Cause like, I wonder like,
So like when Jesus was in the garden of Gethse praying, right?
I know it says that John and like his inner circle, right? John, James,
(36:04):
and Peter were there always with him, like mostly um
So like, how did they know, like the authors of
the gospels?
Speaker 1 (36:14):
How did they know what Jesus said when he was
praying to the Father, you know, his prayer
Speaker 2 (36:18):
when
Speaker 1 (36:19):
like not my will
Speaker 2 (36:20):
be
Speaker 1 (36:20):
done, but yours. Like, how do they know if like Peter, James,
and John were asleep, you know, Peter's is praying over here.
How do they know like the words Jesus said.
What do you think, Phil? Anthony, that's a great question.
Those are, I, I love that you're thinking that way, cause, uh,
(36:41):
not many people will catch those kinds of little details, right?
It's like Jesus goes away and he's praying, and then
we have a record of that. And then when he
came back to his few disciples, they were asleep. So who,
who knew these things? Well, what we have to conclude is,
I mean, I'll just be, I'll try to give a
couple options to you just to make sure you know
(37:01):
I'm not.
Uh, whitewashing this issue. One of them is that the
disciples just made it up, right? That's an, that's a
possibility that they just made up these words and they
attributed these ideas. I'm not saying you're thinking that. I'm
certainly not believing that, but for fairness, let's just acknowledge it. hey,
they just made up the words and then they, they,
(37:23):
they've just been perpetuating this, and now we call these
the words of Jesus, you know, that no one heard.
The problem with that theory.
Is that these men and women who were disciples of
Jesus would be killed for their faith in Christ. The
very idea that they would believe in the resurrection of
Jesus and and give any accommodation for somebody to lie
(37:46):
about what Jesus said or didn't say makes no sense.
So then we're, we're we're we're left with the alternative. What,
what's the alternative or one of the alternatives? That is
that Jesus did share these words.
That they, that they, they were shared or that the
Holy Spirit later shared these words to say John the apostle, uh, that,
(38:07):
you know, the Holy Spirit said, this is what Jesus
was speaking about, much like the, uh, the Lord did
to the Old Testament.
Prophet, where God spoke to the Old Testament prophet about
his heart and his words and his will. So it's
possible that Jesus passed on some of these words, it's
possible that the Holy Spirit passed on those words. What
would not make sense is that they just made them up.
(38:28):
So I think it's a great question.
Um, the fact that they were willing to die really
gives a, a solid perspective that like, they had no
they had no tolerance for any lies or any untruths.
They were standing on the truth, even if it cost
them their life. So I dig the question. I hope
that I hope that helps some. John?
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Yeah, I, I, you know, like Phil said, I mean, the,
the how isn't given to us in scripture, but we
can surmise certain things. And again, this is, these are
just um possibilities.
Um, but like Phil said, they could have asked Jesus, um,
and Jesus could have told them, um, or the Holy
(39:07):
Spirit could have revealed it. Um, another thing too to
keep in mind is the gospel writers tell us that, um,
he went a stone's throw away from Peter, James and John,
and we know that when Jesus came back to them,
they were asleep. The question is when did they fall asleep?
Um, remember Jesus had been away for an hour talking
(39:31):
to his father, and the only thing that's recorded is
this little bit of that one hour prayer and so
the possibility would be that Jesus being a stone's throw away,
and remember Luke's gospel tells us that Jesus was in anguish. I.
Um, I don't know if you've ever been, um, near
(39:52):
someone that is talking that's in anguish, but it's almost
like when they speak, it sounds like they're screaming. Um,
just recently, um, in Huntington Beach, there's a, um, a
well known surfer that was, um, that died as a
result of a, of an accident, um, and, um, a
friend of mine um was there in the hospital room.
(40:15):
Um, to, because they called her and her husband in
and she went in to pray for everybody in that
room when
When uh Colby was still in a coma, but she
said that when she walked into the hospital room, she
could hear K Colby's mom and man she was wailing
and she could hear it sounded like something or nothing
(40:38):
like she'd ever heard before, but it was such deep
anguish and uh and it could be that that the
apostles being a stone's throw away heard in anguish these
words that were spoken.
But um, but beyond that, what did Jesus pray for
the rest of the hour? The gospel writers don't tell us,
(40:59):
and it could be that they fell asleep, um, you know, um,
you know, later, but they were awake to hear that.
But again, we're not told, but um I think that
that does present at least a plausible possibility of how
the gospel writers um heard it because John would have
been there and John would have been able.
(41:19):
Recount that to the other disciples as well as well
as Peter Peter was there and we know that Mark's
Gospel was a retelling of the story of Jesus according
to Peter and uh and in their conversations he could
have shared it with Matthew and Luke was an investigative
reporter and Luke would have been able to hear those
stories and so I think that those are plausible explanations.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
All right, Anthony, thank you for your phone call today
on Pastor's Perspective. Now here is Gloria, listening in San
Diego on FM 107.9. Hey, Gloria, what's your question for
Phil and John today?
Hi, thanks for taking my call and I hope you
all are well. Um, so my question has to do with, um,
(42:02):
I don't even know how to describe this. Um, so,
our adult daughter, you know, she was raised.
You know, in the church she's in the county chapels
all the live, married lives, and um I know that
doesn't speak to her own personal, I mean, I was
there when she accepted the Lord, but I don't know what,
what's inside of her heart. She was very young. But
since then, she has completely turned away and has gone, um,
(42:27):
has a relationship, a same-sex, um, relationship, and she doesn't
live here. Um, and obviously, that crushed me.
My mom, it just crushed my heart, but I've had
a couple of years to, you know, just be on
my face before the Lord and pray, and I've got
so many people praying. And I know, I realized that
(42:49):
it's not the fact that it's not the particular sin,
it's the fact that she's away from Christ, that she, I,
I don't know, I don't know that she's saved. Um,
that's the real
Dilemma. It could be any sin, uh, it doesn't matter. Um.
So my question is, this person that she was with,
is with, pardon me, she happens to be, from what
(43:10):
I hear, a very nice person. And, and, um, you know,
she's reached out to me for my birthday. Like I said,
they don't live here. And, but I, to be honest,
I've pretended like she just really doesn't exist. And I
know that's not right. I'm not being mean. I, I
don't do anything, uh, you know, I just don't ask
about her. And I know that's hurt my daughter, and
(43:33):
she's also said, you know, that's not very Christ-like. So
I know that's probably manipulation. However, there's probably some truth
in that. So I've been asking God, I don't, I
just keep hitting a wall, and I don't know.
How, how do, how do I act on a day
to day basis? Like when I call my daughter, I'll say,
(43:53):
how's she doing? I'll mention, you know, how's Sarah doing,
you know, we're sorry, I shouldn't have said her name. Um, but,
um
I, I don't know. Apart from that, I, I don't know.
I don't have to, I don't have to see it,
but
I, I just don't know how to, how do I proceed? Like,
do I?
You know, everybody says hate the sin, love the sinner,
(44:14):
but what does that actually look like when you're, you know,
when it's your kid and, and you have to interact
with somebody else? That is such a good point, Gloria,
because it's one of those Christianese phrases that we throw
out there, you know, love the sin, or, or I'm sorry,
love the hate the sin, love the sinner, man. I
got that wrong. Uh, hate the sin, love the sinner,
but then when it happens to us, and we're the
(44:34):
ones that are called to hate the sin, love the sinner.
So Phil, what do you say to Gloria?
Yeah, well, Gloria, you're, you're, um, it's, it's a pleasure
when somebody has such like great self-awareness, and you do.
You have a lot of great self-awareness of where you're
at and where you've come from. And also, I really
appreciate that. It makes kind of being able to be
like kind of straight and clear. I, I, I think
you can handle that because you have such a great self-awareness. Yeah, man,
(44:59):
cliches are terrible when you're the one that has to
try to live that out, um, as, as you were
just saying, Brian, um,
Uh, I think, Gloria, you already know the answer, and I,
so I, I appreciate the opportunity to tell you what
I think you already know, based on the way you
kind of expressed everything. Yeah, it's probably not a great
(45:19):
idea to just pretend like your, your daughter's.
Person doesn't exist. Uh, that's, that's, I, I don't know
that it's fair that your daughter threw at you. Hey,
that's not very Christ-like. I, I'm not sure that that's
a fair thing to do, um, but again, fairness doesn't matter.
I think you already get the idea that it's probably
not the best way to like, on the, on the
(45:42):
basis of like relationship, right? That you just kind of
act like this person doesn't exist. So your Christian faith
doesn't require you to do that. And by what I
mean by that is like,
Your daughter's in the same situation, right? You, you, you
said it so well. I don't think that what, you know, her,
her sexual relationships do not define her right now. It's
(46:03):
the fact that she's not walking with Christ. She doesn't
have a relationship with Jesus. And that would be true
for anybody that's in her life. So I would treat
everyone that's in her life the exact same way. They,
they need Jesus as well. Their greatest issue isn't their
romantic relationship.
Their sexuality, the greatest need, as you've well defined, is
(46:24):
that they have a relationship with Jesus Christ. And so,
how do I speak into that, right? Now we get
to that cliche, right? Love the sinner, hate the sin,
and you say, OK, well, how do I, how do
I love the sinner? That I, I think when we
say cliches like that, what we're really trying to do is,
how can I look good on both sides? Well, why
don't we just accept the fact that
(46:46):
That Jesus loved sinners. And the way that he hated
sin was that he died on a cross. You can't
do that, and I can't do that. And so what
are we trying to do? We try to let people know, oh,
I'm really against that, as if that's telling people that
we hate sin. And I think all it's really doing
is proving a judgmentalism, not showing hatred of sin.
(47:08):
The best way you and I are gonna show hatred
of sin is to love people so much that they
see that they need Jesus. The answer is still and
has always been and will always be the cross for
your daughter, for my daughter, for all of our daughters,
it's gonna be the cross. And that includes her friend.
And so maybe you have a chance of like an
open door to jump into deeper relationship.
By acknowledging, yeah, I maybe I've been a little bit cold,
(47:31):
and I don't think that's a great reflection of my heart.
I love you and I, I, I, I, you know,
I love you and I want relationship with you. And
then see how the Lord opens those doors. So I,
I hope that helps a bit, great, uh, Gloria. Can
you repeat that phrase, Phil? It was so profound. The,
the best way to show that we hate sin.
Yeah, it's to love people the way that God loves them,
(47:52):
and by doing that, we're driving people to their need
for Jesus, where his death on the cross is the
ultimate expression of the hatred of sin.
That that phrase does not work for us human beings, guys.
How do you hate sin as a human being? I,
I hate that sin. Well, the problem is, is the
sins I hate, I got others that I really love.
(48:13):
Let's just get real here. I got some sins that
I love, and I don't hate them, but I'm gonna
tell you.
the ones I really hate. It's just a hypocrisy. So
how do I hate sin as a Christian? I'm gonna
love the people God loves and bring them to seeing
their need for Jesus, where the ultimate expression of the
hatred of sin occurred, and that's where Jesus died on
(48:34):
the cross.
John.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
That's good, Phil. Um, yeah, I.
I, I, I feel for you, Gloria. I, um.
Um, this is something that I personally, um, can't relate to, um,
by experience, um, so I can only imagine the angst
that you're feeling as a parent, as a mom, um,
(48:58):
but at the same time, um, being a pastor, um,
one of the things that I've learned, um, quickly is
that this is not an isolated.
Situation or circumstance. This is a very common thing that
many families um are having to deal with today in
fact some of our closest friends um are dealing with
(49:19):
this um one family um is working through the process
that um one of their children just um told them.
Um, just, uh, um, just not too long ago, I said, Mom, dad,
I got some news for you. Um, I just got
married to my partner and the parents had no idea
and so now they're having to learn how to love
(49:42):
their child, um, but at the same time.
Um, having clear lines of understanding that their priority comes
first and foremost to Jesus, right? And so I know
that for them, some of the things um that have
been really helpful is their own personal relationship with the
Lord cultivating that.
(50:03):
Um, their connection to their local church and uh and
having um not only relationships with people in the church,
but also building healthy relationships with the pastoral leadership of
the church, but also um getting connected with other parents,
other families that are going through this, not so much
(50:24):
to um to complain or gripe about their children because
no one wants to do that. They love their kids,
but they support each other through prayer.
They're constantly praying and they rally the support for prayer.
And the one thing that I can say about their
child who's an adult, um, doesn't live at home, um,
he lives with his partner, the one thing that their
(50:47):
child um does not doubt is the love that um
that their mom and dad has for them. And I
think that that's so beautiful and powerful and yet at
the same time,
They understand that their mom and dad doesn't um approve
of that lifestyle because Jesus doesn't approve of that lifestyle.
(51:11):
And so that that is quite the balance for that
for their child to recognize they don't approve of my lifestyle,
but the one thing I can't doubt is the fact
that my mom and dad loves me.
That they would even lay down their life for me
if necessary, and I think that that's a powerful thing,
but that that's really taken the time for them to
(51:34):
be able to like Phil said to it it is
a Jesus kind of love to be able to love
our children that way. And the Bible refers to that
is the fruit of the spirit. So I'll tell you
they lean into the power and the guidance of the
Holy Spirit, but what you don't want to do, because
I've also seen this side.
(51:54):
Where I've seen parents that um they want to love
their children so much that they gradually begin to condone
their lifestyle and and then they create a world in
their home where their children begin to feel like this
is OK.
(52:14):
My mom and dad has accepted this and um and
so this is actually um making our relationship more harmonious
but the problem with that is when you start trying
to overcompensate in how we think about love at the
expense of truth, then you're not helping anyone and so
like Phil said if Jesus is the standard, the measure,
(52:37):
and we understand he came with grace and truth.
Then that's where we need to seek some guidance in that.
So again, I, I just recommend people to to learn
as much as they can, not so much in how
to change the other person, but how can we be
equipped as parents to know how we can love our
children this way because there are people that have really
(52:58):
thought through these issues.
And um I think that focus on the family um
has some great resources and um that that might be
a great starting place, um, but also to to just
keep yourself saturated in the Gospels.
And, and I'm so glad that Phil talked about Jesus,
(53:20):
but also to pray, but man, if you can find
other parents um support groups, um, and, and maybe Calvary Chapel,
Costa Mesa, or maybe, um, you know, Calvary Chapel in
your um area, it's such a common thing like I'm
sure there's probably some really good support groups where you
can get connected and not have to deal with this alone.
(53:42):
I from a pastoral perspective, I would, I would highly
recommend that you move in that direction.
Speaker 1 (53:47):
Yeah, and Gloria is in the San Diego area and
we were just talking earlier about the counseling services that, uh,
Metzner's Church, uh, has, and you can get more information
on the CalvarySD.com website, right Phil? Is this something you're
you guys can do.
Yeah, for sure. Gloria, what do you think? I think
it's awesome, but I just wanna make sure that you
(54:09):
guys understood. I wasn't talking about uh pretending my daughter
doesn't exist. It's the other person. Oh, right, right, right. No,
we got that reject my baby. Yeah, OK, because I would, I,
she knows I love her no matter what, and I,
and I did exact I said exactly what you said.
I told her I would lay my life down for you.
I can't get behind this so but thank you so much,
you guys.
Really appreciate it so much. All right, Gloria, thanks for
(54:31):
calling in today. All of our viewers and listeners are
gonna be praying for you and your family. Uh, all right,
not enough time to take another question. I'm so sorry
if you're still on hold, we'll be here tomorrow between
3 and 4 in the afternoon. So try calling back
then for Phil Metzger and John Huang, I'm Brian Perez. Phil,
tell people again about your church, how they can find
(54:52):
out more information.
Yeah. So the website CalvarySD CalvarySandiego.com, Instagram, same one, Calvary SD.
And then, um, we meet at 10:00 a.m. on Sunday mornings.
Love to have anybody in the area, come on by.
And John Huang, tell us about your
church.
Speaker 2 (55:07):
Christ Point City Church at so you can find us
out or find more about us at Christ PointCity.com. Christ PointCity.com.
We meet on Sunday mornings at Lake Park Clubhouse at
10 a.m. and we're actually starting a brand new series
on Sunday called.
Hold your God from Isaiah 40 and
Speaker 1 (55:24):
then the Wednesday night at the Wednesday
Speaker 2 (55:26):
night at the pier, um, for the month of August
we'll be there from 6:30 till about 7:30 at the
Plaza at Huntington Beach
Speaker 1 (55:33):
Pier. Fun fun. All right, you guys, thank you, John
and Phil for being in the studio today answering the questions,
and we will talk to the rest of you tomorrow
right here on Pastor's Perspective.
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez.
We are here live on this Thursday afternoon until 4 o'clock,
ready to answer the questions you have about the Bible,
the Christian faith, just about anything on your mind, give
us a call. If you tried getting on yesterday and
you couldn't get through, today would be a great day
to call. 888-564-6173 is the number. You can also submit
(00:41):
your questions online, but that's no fun. We want to
talk to you. We want to interact with you.
So call us at 888-564-6173. Now, we realize, lots of
you can't call right now, maybe you're at work or whatever,
so we do have that other avenue, uh, but we
prefer you to call in, kind of like church. Church
(01:03):
meets on Sunday mornings for the most part, right? And
there's people who watch online or listen to one of
the three church services that we have here on the radio,
and that's great, you know.
And it's maybe a good supplement or maybe if you
can't get out of the house, that's what it's there for,
but we highly recommend that you attend church, because church
(01:24):
needs you and you need church. So, kind of the
same thing here with pastor's perspective, I would say. You
can just be there, you can participate, you can
Mail in your questions, but we want to talk to you.
I should land the plane now and introduce the people
who are going to be answering your questions. We've got
Phil Metzger, the pastor of Calvary San Diego. How are you, Phil?
I need help. I'm doing, I'm doing good. No, no, no.
(01:45):
You never need help. You're doing, you're doing great. And
you're saying good things, so don't even hesitate. Don't feel
bad about it. But glad to be with you guys.
Glad for Thursday, pastor's perspective. Love it. Yeah, John Huang's
here too. He's the pastor of Christ Point City Church
on Huntington Beach. What's going on, John?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I'm just happy to be here with the two of you,
and I just wanted to say amen to your little
mini sermon. I think it's right on my soapbox. No,
I think it's beautiful. I mean, it's, it's uh a
beautiful application of Hebrews 10 about not forsaking the assembling together.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yes indeed, indeed.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Good word, Brian Perez.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Thank you. If you're watching on Facebook, YouTube, or Instagram,
I am getting off my soapbox right now, or at
least I'm trying to. Oh, my chair won't adjust. That
would have been a cool little visual if I could
make my chair sink, but it's not sinking, so never mind.
All right, 888-564-6173. We are going to start with a
question that was sent in online.
So it's almost like, forget everything I just said. But
uh no, Sharon wrote in from Fort Lauderdale, that's in Florida,
(02:40):
and uh she says, thank you so much for this
program and your obedience to God. My Bible study group
is going through the book of Joshua, and a few
of us noticed.
A pattern with water up to this point, the Red Sea,
the Jordan, Moses being placed in a river as a child.
Is there a central theme to what water represents? Is
it connected to purification or baptism at all? John, what
(03:01):
would you say to Sharon?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Well, I, I would encourage um Sharon to um when
you're reading the Bible, um, first you want to take
it at face value. So water is H2O and um
and it definitely does, um, you know, establish the setting
for a lot of these stories that we read in scripture,
but it is also interesting though that um when you
(03:26):
go to the New Testament, you see some application.
Of how water is used as a metaphor um for
different things, um, you know, where the Holy Spirit, um,
you know, through the apostles and the New Testament writers
they give to us spiritual applications for water. I mean
those are the places where we can pause and say,
all right, let's let's let's see Jesus in this moment,
(03:48):
you know, like for example, um, when um the children
of Israel were crossing the Red Sea in 1 Corinthians
chapter 10.
Um, Paul makes the application that um the the nation
of Israel were being baptized into Moses and then he, um,
then brings the spiritual application for the church that it
represents our baptism into Christ Jesus. Um, another instance would be.
(04:13):
Um, when, uh, when Moses struck the rock and water
came out to refresh the people, Paul again in 1 Corinthians,
he speaks of that rock as being Christ. And then
Jesus himself takes on the theme of the water, um,
in John chapter 4 as well as in John chapter 7,
(04:33):
where Jesus speaks of himself as a living water.
And um and just all of those references obviously would
trigger memories um you know with um these Hebrew Bible
students of what they see in scripture and one of
the beautiful things is like when you, when you look
at how Jesus is portrayed for example in the Gospel
(04:54):
of Matthew.
Um, Matthew again inspired by the Holy Spirit, he's definitely, um,
telling the story of Jesus through a particular framework and
we see that Jesus himself, um, is the true Israel
and so beginning with the genealogy, you know, we have
that he's the son of Abraham and David.
(05:15):
And uh and then when you start looking at just
for example, the opening chapters of Matthew and you overlap
it with um the Old Testament story, it's amazing.
Um, how many similarities we see, for example, we see
how in Israel's infancy in the book of Exodus, Pharaoh
seeks to murder all of, um, Israel's first born males.
(05:38):
And so in the story of Jesus, Herod seeks to
kill all the Hebrew boys born in Bethlehem trying to
eliminate the Messiah. And then we see, um, the exodus
happening where Israel, Hosea chapter 11 verse 1 speaks of
how out of Egypt he called his son.
Um, but then Matthew then cites that same passage and
(05:58):
says how Jesus was then brought out of Egypt after
he had fled, um, Herod's plan to murder him and
then you see how Israel went through the Red Sea
and how Jesus then was baptized in the Jordan and
then through the Red Sea Israel went into the wilderness
and in the gospel Jesus from Jordan goes into the wilderness.
Israel was there um.
(06:20):
God said that he sent them there to test them
for 40 years, um, and we see that Jesus was
tested for 40 days in the wilderness, and then we see, um,
Israel up on Mount Sinai or at Mount Sinai to
receive the law. Then in Matthew's Gospel, Jesus goes up
a mountain and gives them the sermon on the Mount
where he gives the true meaning of the law. And
(06:41):
then just beautiful parallels that we see.
And um but those are like obvious clear things that
we can see as we go through scripture. So we wanna,
we wanna, as we read scripture we wanna um first
take it at face value, but where the Bible gives
us the green light to think deeper and to draw
(07:01):
some spiritual application, I think that that's where it's um
really beautiful to be able to think and to pray
and to draw conclusions from that.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Sharon, excuse me, Sharon, thank you for sending in your
question on uh Kwave.com's Pastor's perspective page. That's a way
that you can get your question to us. Also on
the Pastor's perspective Facebook Messenger or by DMing us on
the pastor's perspective Instagram. You can also scan the QR
code if you're watching on
Facebook, YouTube or Instagram, and that takes you right to
the page where you can submit your question. But we
(07:31):
want to talk to you, just like we're going to
talk to Debbie right now who is listening in New
Jersey on the Kwave app. Hello, Debbie, welcome to Pastor's Perspective.
Thanks for calling 888-564-6173.
Hi, and thank you for taking my call. Uh, so
I have a heart-wrenching question. Um, my stepdaughter has, uh,
(07:53):
made a demand on me and my husband that, uh,
we can no longer share Jesus to talk about the
Bible to our grandchildren. And if we do, then we
can't see them. So, every bone in my body is
just screaming, like,
No, I, I, I, I can't do this. But is it, my,
(08:15):
I guess my, I wanna know like, if I give
in to her, am I denying the Lord? Hm, Phil,
what do you tell Debbie?
Um, gosh, Debbie, I hate that you're in that situation,
and I'm sure you hate it more than I do. So, oh,
that's such a bummer. And as a grandpa of 5,
I just can't even imagine what you're feeling on that. So,
(08:36):
so let me just answer the question you just asked though, that,
that quick one of like, am I denying the Lord? No,
you are not denying the Lord. You're not denying the
Lord to, you know, to, if you, if you did
decide to
Kind of honor your stepdaughter and her husband's wishes. That's
not denying the Lord. So, I wanna get that out
(08:59):
of the out of the air first.
Then what do I do, right? Should I do this?
Should I not? I think you're gonna have a little
bit more um.
Opportunity with your grandkids, if you respect your, um, your,
your kids right now. In other words, what I mean
is if you were to just kind of like, no, I,
(09:21):
I have to share the Lord and I doesn't matter
what they say, I think you're gonna end up in
a situation where you're gonna lose relationship and so you, you,
you got that one moment, but then you lost all
the next moments.
I think it's OK for you to, and I, and
I say this very, very, like, I, again, I say
this as a grandpa. I say this as a grandpa.
I say like, you wanna keep relationship. You wanna hold
(09:44):
relationship with your kids and with your grandkids. And so
maybe this is where they're at right now, and you're
gonna pray like crazy, I'm sure you already are, for
grace and that God would really change your, your, your,
your daughter's heart so that
She would allow you guys to share, but that's gonna
come by you kind of respecting her right now. And
(10:06):
there's ways for you to still represent Christ and to
and to be just a solid amazing grandma and Christian grandma.
Um, and just expect that this season is gonna pass.
And what you don't wanna do is like, be in
such a hurry because you're afraid you're, you're not being
a good witness of Christ. Um, I would say, hold that,
pray for your family, and believe that God's gonna open
(10:28):
those doors, and by you
Expecting them now, that door is gonna open. Let's just
believe that God will open those doors, but it's a
terrible thing right now. I'm sorry to hear this. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah,
Speaker 2 (10:40):
I, I agree with Phil, um, in that what you
don't want to do is, um, have that door shut. Um,
you know, I, I've had um some really heartbreaking conversations
with grandparents where their children have just completely shut them out.
Of their grandchildren's lives and um and and it's just
(11:03):
it's just mind boggling for me to ever um to
imagine that um especially to um to push, you know,
some of the closest relationships away simply because they have
such strong feelings about um Jesus. And so, um, yeah, you,
you don't want that door to be shut, and I
(11:24):
think like what Phil was saying, um.
Our our first and foremost um weapon that we have
is prayer because God is the one who changes minds
and hearts, um, but praying for your grandchildren, praying for
your um this situation but also um being proactively thinking
um of creative ways.
(11:46):
That you can be a gospel presence in their life, um, like, uh,
you know, like Phil said, I think that one of
the most powerful things that your grandchildren are going to
see as they continue to grow is the stark contrast
between a life that loves Jesus and a life that doesn't.
(12:06):
And um and you get to model that um for
your grandchildren and so they might be too young to
know how to articulate into words, you know, grandma, grandpa,
why are you so different than mom and dad but
as time goes on and as long as you have
proximity um to your grandchildren and you're praying for them,
(12:27):
you're loving on them, and there's some creative ways that
you can.
Um, you know, um, show them that, um, that you
are different because of your faith in Jesus, um, then
there's gonna come a time that your grandchildren are gonna
look at your life and say, I don't really know
how to put my finger on it, but I do
know that my grandma and grandpa are different and that
(12:49):
might in that time things situations could be different that
the conversations could be wide open for you to then
lead into um those moments of talking, but at the
moment you don't want to shut yourself out.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
What do you think, Debbie?
Yeah, it, it's really hard because we're, we're gonna have
to backtrack, like, uh, you know, since they've been small, we,
we've been just pouring in the Lord to her and
she has said that we're trying to brainwash her, but
I mean, we're together, we, we pray together, you know,
she loves her Bible stories. She watches the Super Book.
(13:22):
I sing to her all the time, so it's gonna
be very, very hard for me.
Because I love the Lord so much and I, you know,
I know, I know that they love them. It's, it's,
you know, it's gonna be really hard for me, but, um,
Speaker 2 (13:34):
well, I'll tell you what, um, yeah, here's the beautiful thing, Debbie,
what you, um, have already poured into your grandkids, it
doesn't return void, right?
Um, God said that his word never returns void. So
you've planted seeds in your grandchildren's hearts and minds and
it's germinating and it's gonna grow and I wouldn't be
(13:54):
surprised if the Lord, um, just wouldn't, um, you know
that that you'll find that um the Lord will use
your grandchildren to actually start ministering um to their parents.
You know, last night we had a real interesting.
Um, situation that happened, I was, um, I was open
air preaching and there was a guy that, um, didn't
(14:18):
like what I was saying, he didn't like what I
was doing and so he just went on a rampage
and he just started yelling, he started threatening, he started,
you know, saying all sorts of stuff, um, that, uh.
That apparently what other people said is that like he
he was threatening me to to do physical harm and
(14:41):
so um so he sat behind me but then there
was one of the girls um the daughters of of
one of the gals that came.
And uh and she, you know, she loves the Lord,
but she's little and uh and she's fearless, she'll just
go up and talk with anybody. So as this guy
is just just screaming threats, you know, um, this little
(15:02):
girl's mom was watching her daughter walk up to this
guy and she still kept that distance, but then she
started talking with this guy and the moment she started
talking with them, everything changed.
He was, you know, as, as, you know, all of
a sudden he wasn't angry anymore and, and he started
calming down and he started being open for dialogue and,
and I just thought what a powerful thing because I
(15:25):
was gonna go talk to him after but here's this
little girl that went up and started a conversation with
them and next thing you know God used her as
a mechanism to start quieting him down and softening his heart.
And so.
Um, I don't recommend that for every parent parent to
just have their kids go up to some, you know,
(15:45):
loud stranger, but in this situation, this is just the
way things played out, but I just thought it was
so beautiful how God used this little child, um, to
actually soften this um this hard heart at that moment
and for what you've done.
Um, you might be surprised to see how God uses
your grandchildren to be the key, the mechanism to maybe
(16:09):
soften the hearts of your children.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Debbie, thanks for calling us today here on Pastor's Perspective.
888-564-6173 is the number to call us today. And here
is Spencer, who's listening on FM 107.9 in Riverside. Hey, Spencer,
thanks for calling in today.
Hi, Pastor. Thank you so much for taking my call. Um,
I actually asked a question online the other day, but
(16:34):
I didn't add a whole lot of detail to it. Um,
but I have a different question today, and to sum
it up, I just think that I'm engaged currently and
we have 3 children, but
We'll be together for 6 years in August, and I just,
to put it short, I don't think I'm equally yoked
(16:55):
to my partner and I'm trying to not be um
Super quick to just jump to conclusions and just end things,
but I've been praying a lot about it, and I
know the devil is really keen on separating people that
are trying to be godly, but
I tell him about praying with me and reading the
(17:15):
Bible with me, and he just never really, he says
he wants to, but he never makes action to it
and I just wanted to
See you guys thought about that because I I've been
praying about it a lot and I just, I feel torn.
I don't know what to do. What are the age ranges,
excuse me, age ranges of the children? Couldn't get that out.
(17:36):
My oldest is 74, and then 16 months. OK.
Phil, what would you say to Spencer? Yeah, Spencer, thanks
for calling. Yeah it's a, it's a we're glad you called.
It's this is important, so.
So I'm what I'm hearing you say, and this might
require a little dialogue here, um, is that you are
a believer, but you feel like your fiancee, with whom
(17:59):
you share three kids, is not a believer. Am I
summing that up best
He was raised Catholic and we're attending a Christian church
currently and I just don't, I don't feel like he's
as on fire as I am. That's why I said
I don't feel he's equally, you know, but yeah, I
(18:19):
sure in terms of that phrase, thank you, that that that's,
that's helpful.
I, I kind of wanna help you see it maybe
from where he might be coming from, as it relates to,
it seems like maybe the Lord's tugging on your heart
right now, because, you know, honestly, like, it doesn't seem
like either of you were really walking with the Lord.
I mean, you've, you've had these three beautiful, I'm sure kids.
(18:43):
You're not married, and now you're at this place where
you guys are gonna get married and you wanna walk
with the Lord, and he doesn't seem as interested. Maybe
there's been a little bit of a diverging. I think
from his perspective, you also have to understand, maybe, maybe, and,
and again, I would encourage you, I, I'm making statements
and you can tell me, hey, you're way off and
(19:04):
how dare you and all, but I'm gonna venture on
this just a little bit, Spencer, and forgive me if
this sounds a little bit harsh, but
It might be that there hasn't been a lot of
spirituality in your relationship in these last several years. And
as a result of that, now you're wanting more spirituality,
and really he's not. I don't know that I would
break up with this person because you're afraid that you're
(19:25):
not equally yoked. It sounds like you guys have been
fairly equally yoked. Neither of you were really making your
relationship with God the priority. You've had a, you've had
a life together.
Um, I would be praying for him to wanna come
into a relationship with the Lord. I'd hope you guys
would get into a church that could maybe provide some
good counseling. Pre-marital counseling would be really great. Um, I, I,
(19:49):
I would be really careful though to just kind of,
you know, if, if you're not enjoying the relationship and
you don't feel like it's healthy and it's not good,
I'm not sure about the unequally yoked part as much
at this moment. I would encourage you to jump into
the church that you're at.
Um, and if you're not, we'd love to help recommend
a place where you could go and you guys could
get premarital counseling. Um, I, it sounds like maybe he
(20:13):
does need the Lord, but I, I would say, and
I can say this for me, uh, and I've been
a Christian a long time, I need the Lord too.
So I would encourage both of you. It sounds like
you both need the Lord. The Lord's wanting to get
a hold of you both. It sounds like the marriage
is making this kind of open door for deeper spirituality,
and let's use that.
But I, I don't know that I would throw that
(20:33):
verse that he's not equally yoked. I think that you
guys need some, maybe some good counsel would help. What
do you think, Spencer?
Yeah, that I, I would think so too. I just,
I really want him to be more on board with it,
and I've been feeling a lot of conviction, I feel
like from the Holy Spirit because I really, I've been
trying to nudge him and push him in that direction.
(20:55):
And it's just like he's not really responding and I
really wanted, I wanna, I wanna delve deeper and be
more spiritual and make God my priority, I mean.
I've been trying to read the Bible every day, and
I listen to you guys every day on the way
to work and the way after work. Oh. That's great. Yeah,
you that that that's awesome, and that helps. Thanks for
(21:15):
sharing that, Spencer. You know, your own maybe humility right
now with your fiance would probably go a really long way.
Where you could say, you know, I haven't really been
doing that great with the Lord, but it does matter
to me, and I really would like that. And then
that could be a journey you both go on together.
I think if he feels like, and if you feel
like you're coming from this like really deep place with
(21:37):
the Lord and he's nowhere, I, I'm not sure that
that's really the story that you two have been having.
It sounds like maybe you both have been kind of
just in a, in a, in a kind of figuring
things out space and now you're ready.
And I would walk with humility with your fiancee and say,
I am the one that's wanting a deeper walk with
the Lord now, and forgive me for maybe I could
(21:58):
have been a better witness and so on and so forth.
And maybe the Lord would use that to open up
some really, really good doors, Spencer. There's also the part
of me that wonders, and I'm not at all advocating
for unequally yoked relationships, but we hear stories sometimes where
People do get married and both of them profess, let's
just say in Spencer's case, just as an example, where
(22:19):
let's just say Spencer's fiancee was this.
Quote unquote on fire godly man who sings on the
worship team and he prays 3 hours a day, this, that, whatever,
and then the moment they get married, all of a
sudden it's like, OK, now I can be who I
really am, and he's a slob, he doesn't want to
go to church on Sundays anymore. Nothing. Just goes out
the window. It's just like, wait a minute, did I
(22:41):
marry a, a fake person here? So is that really
the most, uh, is that the best verse to use
about being unequally yoked?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Well, I mean in in those situations, I mean my
my response would be um exactly what Phil said I
would highly recommend premarital counseling and um you know, Spencer
are you when you say that you and your fiancee
go to church, are you both actively attending church currently?
Yeah. OK, um, my, my encouragement to you is um
(23:16):
to connect with the pastoral staff there and um and
seek to schedule um a meeting and and hopefully um
you guys could um get some time together with a
pastor there at the church um and go through some
pre-marital counseling because these are things that you need to
talk through. I mean, because there's so many issues that obviously.
(23:39):
You know, listening to um you share your side of
how you're feeling that the relationship is going. I mean, I, my,
my assumption is it's probably deeper and more complex than
than at least for us on this end of the call, um,
even realize or understand and so this is gonna take
(23:59):
some time um to to work through and to talk
things out, you know, I think that one of the
things that frustrate a lot of marriages.
Is um when spouses walk into marriage and they put
on their superhero costume and they think I'm gonna be
the savior in this relationship and it's gonna be my
job to change my spouse and so we have all
(24:21):
of these ideals of what we want our spouse to
look like and where the frustration comes in.
Is no matter how hard the husband is trying to
change the wife or how hard the wife is trying
to change the husband um rather than seeing um a
willing compliance you're met with resistance and then it flares
(24:41):
up and and uh and and a lot of it
has to do with our own pride it's it's like
we we want the other person to change because um
we're we're setting ourselves to be the compass of where
the relationship is supposed to go.
And then, you know, then the other challenging thing is
that we define what we think an on fire Christian
(25:02):
is supposed to look like, you know, and, and sometimes
we
We look on social media and we see like thousands
of people with their hands raised and you know they're
all standing and they're singing from the top of their
lung and and we see a we see a sound
bite but the question is, is like how are those
(25:22):
same people when they go back home? How are those
same people when they're at church.
Um, and so, so sometimes we, we have an ideal
in our minds of what real spiritual passionate worship is
supposed to look like and devotion to Christ, but the
reality is, even for someone like me that's been walking
with the Lord for over 50 years, I find myself, um,
(25:45):
in in terms of like excitement, it ebb and flows.
You know, there are some days I am like so
like I cannot wait for the next morning to open
up my Bible and read another 10 chapters and then
there's other seasons where it's like I am like really
working hard at trying to read a few verses, you know,
and but the love of Jesus and the relationship you
(26:07):
know with Jesus remains constant. So, um, I, I would
just say that before you give up on anything like
Phil was saying.
Um, this is where relationships are complex. Relationships are dealing with,
you're walking into a you're in a relationship, but you're
walking into, um, a possible marriage where it's two sinners
(26:30):
that are gonna be spending the rest of their lives together.
And and every sinner needs a savior like Phil was
saying and to know how to grow in that relationship.
This is where getting some guidance, getting some coaching, getting
some mentorship from people that have been walking with the
Lord for a while they've been married for a while
(26:51):
their their life is fruitful and they're flourishing that could
be really helpful. So I would encourage you to do
that and, and if your church feels like.
I, we're not equipped to do stuff like that. You know,
I actually went on Calvary San Diego's website, Phil, and
I saw that you actually have a section there where
you recommend like counseling um services and ministry, and I thought, man,
(27:13):
that is so spot on.
Like, I mean for you guys as a church to
recognize there there's what we know we can do as
a pastoral staff and there's what we know we can't
do as a pastoral staff but we know people that
are part of the kingdom of God that are able
to do stuff um that we can't. I, I, I
love that about your church and I love that about
(27:34):
your heart, Phil. so, um, so if your church doesn't
provide that, man, I would encourage you go on to
Calvary San Diego's website.
And um and and connect there and get some guidance
there and maybe Phil you could speak a little bit
more into that.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Yeah, we actually, we hired, I have on staff a,
a counselor. Oh, that's amazing, she's a therapist, uh, on-fire Christian,
finishing her PhD in psychology and marriage and family. Listen,
there is a point when we like, I think as pastors,
I think we're in a generation where we realize.
We are not one-stop shops for everything. Um, we are not,
(28:12):
you know, we can Google as much as anybody else,
but that does not make us qualified in certain areas.
And so, you know, I, I encourage my pastors here, like,
meet with people, do marriage counseling, do it all. But
when you realize you've hit a wall, we have resource
beyond our capacity. And so we work well with many,
(28:32):
many therapists in our area and they value the fact
that a church loves them and cares about what they
do and.
So I highly recommend churches to consider that, and I
definitely think, Spencer, you guys should, you guys should be
looking into that. The Calvary San Diego website, by the way,
is CalvarySD.com, and you can find out about the counseling
resources by clicking about counseling resources. So, uh, check that out, CalvarySD.com.
(28:58):
And uh we're gonna take a break here in just
a little bit on Pastor's perspective. My name is Brian Perez.
We've got Phil Metzger and John Huang here to answer
the questions you have about the Bible, the Christian faith,
and we would love to hear from you at 888-564-6173.
Anthony, Gloria, Robert, Pete, Pat, everyone else who wants to
talk to Phil and John today, we will try to
(29:20):
get to as many of your calls as possible, and
we're gonna keep the phone lines open for another 30 minutes. 888-564-6173.
Let's hear your questions.
(30:19):
All right, we are back on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is
the number to call. Phil Metzger from Calvary San Diego
is here. So is John Huang from Christ Point City
Church in Huntington Beach. Phil Metzger, what time are your
services at your church? We, um, we do Sunday morning
at 10 a.m.
(30:40):
And then now that the uh fall is about to
kind of kick off, we do, um, small groups. We
call them connect groups during the week. So Monday through Friday,
we have connect groups, and then Sunday morning is our
one main service, 10 a.m. Very good. CalvarySD.com is where
you can get more information, like, you know, the address,
so you know where to go. John Huang, Christ Point
City Church, when do you guys meet?
Speaker 2 (31:02):
We meet on Sunday mornings at 10 a.m. because we
want to be just like Phil.
And um I I'm about, I'm about to go after
this program, buy a kit to just add color to
my hair so I could look as cool as Phil does.
I I can't do the beard. I wish I could.
(31:23):
I would do anything. I'm thinking about maybe even experiencing
with the chia pet seeds and just like just plastering
my face with it.
But man, if you, if you, if you don't know
what Phil Metzger looks like, I, it's worth getting onto
YouTube just to see his face because he's one of.
Those humans it just ages so well. I'm jealous. Yeah,
(31:44):
so we meet at um Lake Park in Huntington Beach.
So we're actually a brand new church. Um, September will
be officially a year for us, um, since we started
Sunday mornings and um and so we are at um
in downtown Huntington Beach at Lake Park and you can
go to our website at ChristPointcity.com and learn more about that.
(32:06):
Um, but another thing that we're doing is for the
remaining 3 Wednesday nights.
At Huntington Beach Pier, um, at the Plaza, so if
you go to the pier, there's a, um, there's a
plaza that has um tiered seating areas and um uh
a couple of weeks ago God just really began um
(32:29):
just rekindling my heart um in in the area of
evangelism and you know, I.
Um, I, I know that Phil and I like we, um,
we've got a history with this, but in some of
my best memories was being in Coish far with Phil.
I remember we were in the street open air preaching
and it was just a downpour and I was playing
(32:49):
my guitar and, and everybody had scattered, but Phil ran
out with an umbrella and he's standing over me and
it's just the two of us and it is just
this downpour as we're singing about Jesus and.
But open air preaching has just been a part of
our stories and God just rekindled that. My problem though
has been open air preaching has become so gimmicky, and
(33:13):
so I think a lot of times people have just
gotten burned out, especially at Huntington Beach Pier where um
they have had so much of the gimmicky kind of evangelism.
So I started thinking about how Jesus, um, that the
gospels tell us that he taught.
He, he, it was opener preaching, but he taught about
the kingdom of God. So, um, I, I really just
(33:37):
felt like, man, I wanna take a step of faith
and go down to Huntington Beach Pier Plaza and start
teaching people about Jesus using the Gospel of John. So
last night we had our first night and it was
so sweet.
Um, and, uh, we've got 3 more Wednesday nights, so
I'd love to invite any of you that are out
there that live in the Huntington Beach area. If you'd
(33:58):
like to join us on Wednesday evenings, we start like
last night we started at 6:30 ended at 7:30 just
for an hour. We'll start with like 3 songs and
then um I, I.
Expound a passage from the Gospel of John, but it's
more of an evangelistic message and it was so sweet
to see people um that saw the group that was
(34:21):
with us and so they felt comfortable enough to stay
and listen like they stayed for the whole thing.
And then afterwards when I invited people um to come
and talk with us like people came up and talked
and we were able to give them a gospel of
John and just converse with them and and one guy said,
so you're gonna be doing this next Wednesday, right? I
wanna come back next Wednesday night and this guy doesn't
(34:42):
know the Lord, you know, and so, so it's just
uh a way that we're we're thinking this is.
Um, an opportunity for us to tell people about Jesus,
but also for people that show up to connect them
with people that might come walking by and then they
could walk into conversations like that. But I mean, I'm
gonna prepare you. Don't expect speakers don't expect bands, don't,
(35:04):
I mean it is, you know, it is just me
pumping air out of my diaphragm, speaking as loud as
I can expound.
the gospel of John, but wanting to introduce people to Jesus.
So that's Wednesday nights at 6:30 p.m. at Huntington Beach
Pier Plaza.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
How
fun. All right, 888-564-6173. Where is Pat? Pat hung up. OK,
so let's go to Anthony, who's watching us on Facebook
in Los Angeles. Welcome to Pastor's perspective, Anthony. Thanks for
calling 888-564-6173.
Hey, hey, how are you guys
doing, Pastors?
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Doing well, thank you.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
So, uh, just, you know,
Speaker 2 (35:44):
it's just kind of a question that I had like,
so when I read through the Bible sometimes, like in
my own studies, um,
Cause like, I wonder like,
So like when Jesus was in the garden of Gethse praying, right?
I know it says that John and like his inner circle, right? John, James,
(36:04):
and Peter were there always with him, like mostly um
So like, how did they know, like the authors of
the gospels?
Speaker 1 (36:14):
How did they know what Jesus said when he was
praying to the Father, you know, his prayer
Speaker 2 (36:18):
when
Speaker 1 (36:19):
like not my will
Speaker 2 (36:20):
be
Speaker 1 (36:20):
done, but yours. Like, how do they know if like Peter, James,
and John were asleep, you know, Peter's is praying over here.
How do they know like the words Jesus said.
What do you think, Phil? Anthony, that's a great question.
Those are, I, I love that you're thinking that way, cause, uh,
(36:41):
not many people will catch those kinds of little details, right?
It's like Jesus goes away and he's praying, and then
we have a record of that. And then when he
came back to his few disciples, they were asleep. So who,
who knew these things? Well, what we have to conclude is,
I mean, I'll just be, I'll try to give a
couple options to you just to make sure you know
(37:01):
I'm not.
Uh, whitewashing this issue. One of them is that the
disciples just made it up, right? That's an, that's a
possibility that they just made up these words and they
attributed these ideas. I'm not saying you're thinking that. I'm
certainly not believing that, but for fairness, let's just acknowledge it. hey,
they just made up the words and then they, they,
(37:23):
they've just been perpetuating this, and now we call these
the words of Jesus, you know, that no one heard.
The problem with that theory.
Is that these men and women who were disciples of
Jesus would be killed for their faith in Christ. The
very idea that they would believe in the resurrection of
Jesus and and give any accommodation for somebody to lie
(37:46):
about what Jesus said or didn't say makes no sense.
So then we're, we're we're we're left with the alternative. What,
what's the alternative or one of the alternatives? That is
that Jesus did share these words.
That they, that they, they were shared or that the
Holy Spirit later shared these words to say John the apostle, uh, that,
(38:07):
you know, the Holy Spirit said, this is what Jesus
was speaking about, much like the, uh, the Lord did
to the Old Testament.
Prophet, where God spoke to the Old Testament prophet about
his heart and his words and his will. So it's
possible that Jesus passed on some of these words, it's
possible that the Holy Spirit passed on those words. What
would not make sense is that they just made them up.
(38:28):
So I think it's a great question.
Um, the fact that they were willing to die really
gives a, a solid perspective that like, they had no
they had no tolerance for any lies or any untruths.
They were standing on the truth, even if it cost
them their life. So I dig the question. I hope
that I hope that helps some. John?
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Yeah, I, I, you know, like Phil said, I mean, the,
the how isn't given to us in scripture, but we
can surmise certain things. And again, this is, these are
just um possibilities.
Um, but like Phil said, they could have asked Jesus, um,
and Jesus could have told them, um, or the Holy
(39:07):
Spirit could have revealed it. Um, another thing too to
keep in mind is the gospel writers tell us that, um,
he went a stone's throw away from Peter, James and John,
and we know that when Jesus came back to them,
they were asleep. The question is when did they fall asleep?
Um, remember Jesus had been away for an hour talking
(39:31):
to his father, and the only thing that's recorded is
this little bit of that one hour prayer and so
the possibility would be that Jesus being a stone's throw away,
and remember Luke's gospel tells us that Jesus was in anguish. I.
Um, I don't know if you've ever been, um, near
(39:52):
someone that is talking that's in anguish, but it's almost
like when they speak, it sounds like they're screaming. Um,
just recently, um, in Huntington Beach, there's a, um, a
well known surfer that was, um, that died as a
result of a, of an accident, um, and, um, a
friend of mine um was there in the hospital room.
(40:15):
Um, to, because they called her and her husband in
and she went in to pray for everybody in that
room when
When uh Colby was still in a coma, but she
said that when she walked into the hospital room, she
could hear K Colby's mom and man she was wailing
and she could hear it sounded like something or nothing
(40:38):
like she'd ever heard before, but it was such deep
anguish and uh and it could be that that the
apostles being a stone's throw away heard in anguish these
words that were spoken.
But um, but beyond that, what did Jesus pray for
the rest of the hour? The gospel writers don't tell us,
(40:59):
and it could be that they fell asleep, um, you know, um,
you know, later, but they were awake to hear that.
But again, we're not told, but um I think that
that does present at least a plausible possibility of how
the gospel writers um heard it because John would have
been there and John would have been able.
(41:19):
Recount that to the other disciples as well as well
as Peter Peter was there and we know that Mark's
Gospel was a retelling of the story of Jesus according
to Peter and uh and in their conversations he could
have shared it with Matthew and Luke was an investigative
reporter and Luke would have been able to hear those
stories and so I think that those are plausible explanations.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
All right, Anthony, thank you for your phone call today
on Pastor's Perspective. Now here is Gloria, listening in San
Diego on FM 107.9. Hey, Gloria, what's your question for
Phil and John today?
Hi, thanks for taking my call and I hope you
all are well. Um, so my question has to do with, um,
(42:02):
I don't even know how to describe this. Um, so,
our adult daughter, you know, she was raised.
You know, in the church she's in the county chapels
all the live, married lives, and um I know that
doesn't speak to her own personal, I mean, I was
there when she accepted the Lord, but I don't know what,
what's inside of her heart. She was very young. But
since then, she has completely turned away and has gone, um,
(42:27):
has a relationship, a same-sex, um, relationship, and she doesn't
live here. Um, and obviously, that crushed me.
My mom, it just crushed my heart, but I've had
a couple of years to, you know, just be on
my face before the Lord and pray, and I've got
so many people praying. And I know, I realized that
(42:49):
it's not the fact that it's not the particular sin,
it's the fact that she's away from Christ, that she, I,
I don't know, I don't know that she's saved. Um,
that's the real
Dilemma. It could be any sin, uh, it doesn't matter. Um.
So my question is, this person that she was with,
is with, pardon me, she happens to be, from what
(43:10):
I hear, a very nice person. And, and, um, you know,
she's reached out to me for my birthday. Like I said,
they don't live here. And, but I, to be honest,
I've pretended like she just really doesn't exist. And I
know that's not right. I'm not being mean. I, I
don't do anything, uh, you know, I just don't ask
about her. And I know that's hurt my daughter, and
(43:33):
she's also said, you know, that's not very Christ-like. So
I know that's probably manipulation. However, there's probably some truth
in that. So I've been asking God, I don't, I
just keep hitting a wall, and I don't know.
How, how do, how do I act on a day
to day basis? Like when I call my daughter, I'll say,
(43:53):
how's she doing? I'll mention, you know, how's Sarah doing,
you know, we're sorry, I shouldn't have said her name. Um, but,
um
I, I don't know. Apart from that, I, I don't know.
I don't have to, I don't have to see it,
but
I, I just don't know how to, how do I proceed? Like,
do I?
You know, everybody says hate the sin, love the sinner,
(44:14):
but what does that actually look like when you're, you know,
when it's your kid and, and you have to interact
with somebody else? That is such a good point, Gloria,
because it's one of those Christianese phrases that we throw
out there, you know, love the sin, or, or I'm sorry,
love the hate the sin, love the sinner, man. I
got that wrong. Uh, hate the sin, love the sinner,
but then when it happens to us, and we're the
(44:34):
ones that are called to hate the sin, love the sinner.
So Phil, what do you say to Gloria?
Yeah, well, Gloria, you're, you're, um, it's, it's a pleasure
when somebody has such like great self-awareness, and you do.
You have a lot of great self-awareness of where you're
at and where you've come from. And also, I really
appreciate that. It makes kind of being able to be
like kind of straight and clear. I, I, I think
you can handle that because you have such a great self-awareness. Yeah, man,
(44:59):
cliches are terrible when you're the one that has to
try to live that out, um, as, as you were
just saying, Brian, um,
Uh, I think, Gloria, you already know the answer, and I,
so I, I appreciate the opportunity to tell you what
I think you already know, based on the way you
kind of expressed everything. Yeah, it's probably not a great
(45:19):
idea to just pretend like your, your daughter's.
Person doesn't exist. Uh, that's, that's, I, I don't know
that it's fair that your daughter threw at you. Hey,
that's not very Christ-like. I, I'm not sure that that's
a fair thing to do, um, but again, fairness doesn't matter.
I think you already get the idea that it's probably
not the best way to like, on the, on the
(45:42):
basis of like relationship, right? That you just kind of
act like this person doesn't exist. So your Christian faith
doesn't require you to do that. And by what I
mean by that is like,
Your daughter's in the same situation, right? You, you, you
said it so well. I don't think that what, you know, her,
her sexual relationships do not define her right now. It's
(46:03):
the fact that she's not walking with Christ. She doesn't
have a relationship with Jesus. And that would be true
for anybody that's in her life. So I would treat
everyone that's in her life the exact same way. They,
they need Jesus as well. Their greatest issue isn't their
romantic relationship.
Their sexuality, the greatest need, as you've well defined, is
(46:24):
that they have a relationship with Jesus Christ. And so,
how do I speak into that, right? Now we get
to that cliche, right? Love the sinner, hate the sin,
and you say, OK, well, how do I, how do
I love the sinner? That I, I think when we
say cliches like that, what we're really trying to do is,
how can I look good on both sides? Well, why
don't we just accept the fact that
(46:46):
That Jesus loved sinners. And the way that he hated
sin was that he died on a cross. You can't
do that, and I can't do that. And so what
are we trying to do? We try to let people know, oh,
I'm really against that, as if that's telling people that
we hate sin. And I think all it's really doing
is proving a judgmentalism, not showing hatred of sin.
(47:08):
The best way you and I are gonna show hatred
of sin is to love people so much that they
see that they need Jesus. The answer is still and
has always been and will always be the cross for
your daughter, for my daughter, for all of our daughters,
it's gonna be the cross. And that includes her friend.
And so maybe you have a chance of like an
open door to jump into deeper relationship.
By acknowledging, yeah, I maybe I've been a little bit cold,
(47:31):
and I don't think that's a great reflection of my heart.
I love you and I, I, I, I, you know,
I love you and I want relationship with you. And
then see how the Lord opens those doors. So I,
I hope that helps a bit, great, uh, Gloria. Can
you repeat that phrase, Phil? It was so profound. The,
the best way to show that we hate sin.
Yeah, it's to love people the way that God loves them,
(47:52):
and by doing that, we're driving people to their need
for Jesus, where his death on the cross is the
ultimate expression of the hatred of sin.
That that phrase does not work for us human beings, guys.
How do you hate sin as a human being? I,
I hate that sin. Well, the problem is, is the
sins I hate, I got others that I really love.
(48:13):
Let's just get real here. I got some sins that
I love, and I don't hate them, but I'm gonna
tell you.
the ones I really hate. It's just a hypocrisy. So
how do I hate sin as a Christian? I'm gonna
love the people God loves and bring them to seeing
their need for Jesus, where the ultimate expression of the
hatred of sin occurred, and that's where Jesus died on
(48:34):
the cross.
John.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
That's good, Phil. Um, yeah, I.
I, I, I feel for you, Gloria. I, um.
Um, this is something that I personally, um, can't relate to, um,
by experience, um, so I can only imagine the angst
that you're feeling as a parent, as a mom, um,
(48:58):
but at the same time, um, being a pastor, um,
one of the things that I've learned, um, quickly is
that this is not an isolated.
Situation or circumstance. This is a very common thing that
many families um are having to deal with today in
fact some of our closest friends um are dealing with
(49:19):
this um one family um is working through the process
that um one of their children just um told them.
Um, just, uh, um, just not too long ago, I said, Mom, dad,
I got some news for you. Um, I just got
married to my partner and the parents had no idea
and so now they're having to learn how to love
(49:42):
their child, um, but at the same time.
Um, having clear lines of understanding that their priority comes
first and foremost to Jesus, right? And so I know
that for them, some of the things um that have
been really helpful is their own personal relationship with the
Lord cultivating that.
(50:03):
Um, their connection to their local church and uh and
having um not only relationships with people in the church,
but also building healthy relationships with the pastoral leadership of
the church, but also um getting connected with other parents,
other families that are going through this, not so much
(50:24):
to um to complain or gripe about their children because
no one wants to do that. They love their kids,
but they support each other through prayer.
They're constantly praying and they rally the support for prayer.
And the one thing that I can say about their
child who's an adult, um, doesn't live at home, um,
he lives with his partner, the one thing that their
(50:47):
child um does not doubt is the love that um
that their mom and dad has for them. And I
think that that's so beautiful and powerful and yet at
the same time,
They understand that their mom and dad doesn't um approve
of that lifestyle because Jesus doesn't approve of that lifestyle.
(51:11):
And so that that is quite the balance for that
for their child to recognize they don't approve of my lifestyle,
but the one thing I can't doubt is the fact
that my mom and dad loves me.
That they would even lay down their life for me
if necessary, and I think that that's a powerful thing,
but that that's really taken the time for them to
(51:34):
be able to like Phil said to it it is
a Jesus kind of love to be able to love
our children that way. And the Bible refers to that
is the fruit of the spirit. So I'll tell you
they lean into the power and the guidance of the
Holy Spirit, but what you don't want to do, because
I've also seen this side.
(51:54):
Where I've seen parents that um they want to love
their children so much that they gradually begin to condone
their lifestyle and and then they create a world in
their home where their children begin to feel like this
is OK.
(52:14):
My mom and dad has accepted this and um and
so this is actually um making our relationship more harmonious
but the problem with that is when you start trying
to overcompensate in how we think about love at the
expense of truth, then you're not helping anyone and so
like Phil said if Jesus is the standard, the measure,
(52:37):
and we understand he came with grace and truth.
Then that's where we need to seek some guidance in that.
So again, I, I just recommend people to to learn
as much as they can, not so much in how
to change the other person, but how can we be
equipped as parents to know how we can love our
children this way because there are people that have really
(52:58):
thought through these issues.
And um I think that focus on the family um
has some great resources and um that that might be
a great starting place, um, but also to to just
keep yourself saturated in the Gospels.
And, and I'm so glad that Phil talked about Jesus,
(53:20):
but also to pray, but man, if you can find
other parents um support groups, um, and, and maybe Calvary Chapel,
Costa Mesa, or maybe, um, you know, Calvary Chapel in
your um area, it's such a common thing like I'm
sure there's probably some really good support groups where you
can get connected and not have to deal with this alone.
(53:42):
I from a pastoral perspective, I would, I would highly
recommend that you move in that direction.
Speaker 1 (53:47):
Yeah, and Gloria is in the San Diego area and
we were just talking earlier about the counseling services that, uh,
Metzner's Church, uh, has, and you can get more information
on the CalvarySD.com website, right Phil? Is this something you're
you guys can do.
Yeah, for sure. Gloria, what do you think? I think
it's awesome, but I just wanna make sure that you
(54:09):
guys understood. I wasn't talking about uh pretending my daughter
doesn't exist. It's the other person. Oh, right, right, right. No,
we got that reject my baby. Yeah, OK, because I would, I,
she knows I love her no matter what, and I,
and I did exact I said exactly what you said.
I told her I would lay my life down for you.
I can't get behind this so but thank you so much,
you guys.
Really appreciate it so much. All right, Gloria, thanks for
(54:31):
calling in today. All of our viewers and listeners are
gonna be praying for you and your family. Uh, all right,
not enough time to take another question. I'm so sorry
if you're still on hold, we'll be here tomorrow between
3 and 4 in the afternoon. So try calling back
then for Phil Metzger and John Huang, I'm Brian Perez. Phil,
tell people again about your church, how they can find
(54:52):
out more information.
Yeah. So the website CalvarySD CalvarySandiego.com, Instagram, same one, Calvary SD.
And then, um, we meet at 10:00 a.m. on Sunday mornings.
Love to have anybody in the area, come on by.
And John Huang, tell us about your
church.
Speaker 2 (55:07):
Christ Point City Church at so you can find us
out or find more about us at Christ PointCity.com. Christ PointCity.com.
We meet on Sunday mornings at Lake Park Clubhouse at
10 a.m. and we're actually starting a brand new series
on Sunday called.
Hold your God from Isaiah 40 and
Speaker 1 (55:24):
then the Wednesday night at the Wednesday
Speaker 2 (55:26):
night at the pier, um, for the month of August
we'll be there from 6:30 till about 7:30 at the
Plaza at Huntington Beach
Speaker 1 (55:33):
Pier. Fun fun. All right, you guys, thank you, John
and Phil for being in the studio today answering the questions,
and we will talk to the rest of you tomorrow
right here on Pastor's Perspective.
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