September 24, 2025 • 56 mins
Pastors' Perspective is a one-hour call-in program where listeners can call in and get answers to questions about the Bible, Christianity, family, and life. The program is live Monday through Friday from 3:00 PM - 4:00 PM Pacific. You can call 888-564-6173 to ask your questions.
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Speaker 1 (00:17):
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez,
and we're gonna be here in the studio for another
or for the next hour, and we're gonna be talking
to you about whatever it is you want to talk about.
If you've got questions about the Bible, the Christian faith,
Christian ethics, well, call in 888-564-6173 is the number to call, and, uh,
(00:38):
we've got Doctor.
Scott Ray from Biola University here today. Hey there, Scott. Yeah,
thank you. Glad to be with you all. Good to
have you here. Yes, always, always a good time when
you're here. Brian Broderson's here too. He's from Echoes of Mercy.com.
You also hear him on the Back to Basics radio
program Monday through Friday here on Kwave, and he teaches
(00:58):
on Sunday nights at Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa. What's up, Brian?
Well, good to be here. I've been, um.
What have I been doing today? Yeah, I took a
run and.
Um, been catching up on a lot of reading and researching,
getting ready to teach a course on, uh, it's my
(01:21):
5th church history course and I've kind of, you know,
started from, I actually started in the, I think it
was the 2nd century I started in, and so I'm
up to the Great Awakening.
The Great Awakening, the Second Great Awakening, what they call
the 18th century revival in Britain, which was the same
time frame, and uh looking at a few things from the,
(01:44):
the 19th century, you know, people like Spurgeon and and Moody.
So yeah, good stuff. Yeah, it's good. And where are
you gonna be teaching this? I'm gonna be teaching this
at the gathering, which is uh a series of courses
that we do uh throughout the year. I think we
do 3 or 4 different times throughout the year where
we do 6 to 8 week classes and there's like,
(02:05):
you know, 10 or 12 or 15 classes that you
can choose from. And I, I love church history, so
that's kind of my default. I just, you know, like
to jump in with those, so, yeah, so that that's
what I've been doing.
Plus I've been staying up on the rapture because I
heard it's coming up soon, so I just, in fact,
that's one of our questions that was sent in online.
(02:30):
So maybe we should just be. Yes, it's according to
Kimberly and the feast of today? Is that what it
is because they usually connect it with the feast of.
I'm not sure of that, but I know Rosh Hashanah
was just we can look that up really quick, yeah, OK.
OK, well, yeah, OK. Anyway, I didn't realize it was today.
I thought we still had a few days. Feast of
Trumpets began began last Monday, concludes at nightfall tonight. Ah, so, OK, well,
(02:52):
we got a few hours. Yes, could still happen. Kimberly
and Murrieta writes, Hi, pastors. There are some podcasts on
YouTube stating the rapture will be on September 24th. Can
you please tell me if that's your belief? I personally
believe that no one knows the day or the hour.
I'm concerned for the people listening, listening to this information.
Uh, well, yeah, you know, this, this comes around, you know,
(03:16):
fairly frequently, um, you know, sometimes it's, it's a little
bit under the radar and then other times, you know,
somebody comes out and gets very specific and so people
get concerned. I, I have a vivid memory of when
I was pastoring in the UK and uh there was
a guy who came out with a book and it
was all about the rapture taking place in May of
(03:37):
a particular year and a date and
So one of, one of the members of our church
came to me and he was really, really shaken up
by it and, you know, he wanted to talk to
me about it and wanted to know what I thought
about it and I said, well, uh, so let's just
say the date was May 5th. I said, um, I said, look,
let's get together May 6th and we'll talk about it.
(03:59):
So he just looked at me like, what does that
even mean? He said, we'll be here May 6th. Don't
worry about us. Yeah, that, that was clearly the right answer, uh, because, yeah,
the time, the time of that is unknown. I mean,
even Jesus in his earthly life claimed not not to
know that, uh, so far, far be it from us
to pinpoint specific times and dates. Exactly. So why do
(04:21):
people continue to do it?
I mean, this has been going on forever. Uh there's
always some loophole though, you know, they've always got like, well, he,
you know, he said you couldn't know the day of
the hour, but you could know the times and the
seasons and, and so then we calculate according to certain
times and seasons and stuff. And so I, you know, it's,
it's unfortunate because I, I mean, I still am one
(04:43):
who believes that there is a rapture, uh, but the
rapture's fallen on hard times, you know, people criticizing it.
Criticizing even the idea of it and I was just
saw somebody on um and and obviously they're responding to
what's happening right now, but I saw somebody on Instagram
or whatever, and, you know, they were just breaking down
all the reasons why even believing in a rapture is ridiculous,
(05:04):
and I just thought, you know, no, those those aren't good, uh,
but that's not good exegesis either, you know. So you
got the kooky.
Crazy stuff in regard to the rapture, but then you
got the other side of just, oh, this was never
even heard of in all of history until the 1800s,
(05:25):
and it was a crazy woman who came up with
the idea and, you know, all of it. I think, yeah,
it'd be helpful I think for listeners to know that the,
the passages that speak to the resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15,
that's a different event.
That then what Paul speaks to in 1 Thessalonians 4
about the believers being caught up in the air with Christ,
(05:48):
those are, those are two different events, uh, in, in, in,
in my view of the end times, uh, the, you know,
Christ returns before the millennial kingdom and the rapture occurs
prior to that seven year tribulation that will be sort
of the last, the last gasp before the Lord returns. Yeah, I,
I think so too, and, um, I, you know.
(06:09):
A lot of times now in this particular person that
I saw on on Instagram, he was saying that in
the 1st, 1st Athsonian's 4:15, um,
The Lord's, the Lord's coming, and, you know, they take
the word there and they say, oh well, that, that word.
I actually heard somebody say that word actually means like
a king, when a king is coming and people go
(06:31):
out to greet him. So, we who are alive will
be caught up and we're gonna go greet the Lord
as he comes.
Uh, kind of a thing, and I thought, you know,
basically they've taken an illustration and turned it into an interpretation.
It's like the word doesn't mean that at all. The
word simply means coming or advent or presents. It's amazing
how the text can follow our illustrations sometimes. Yeah, that's right.
(06:52):
But I've heard a lot of people saying that lately,
and it's like, OK, so they have literally taken an
illustration and just laid it on there and said this
is what it.
You know, and I, but I even heard one guy
say the Greek word actually means a king when he's
coming and his subjects go out to meet him. I thought,
That's, that's probably 11 application of that Greek word, but not,
(07:14):
but not the entirety of it. Exactly, yes, so, so anyway,
all right, Kimberly, thank you for sending in your question
through the pastor's perspective page on Kwave.com. Hopefully we've clarified that. Yeah,
and look, if, if the rapture comes tonight, it'll be good.
We will, we will rejoice. We won't be disappointed in
the least. But if it doesn't, it's good too.
(07:37):
Yes, fine. Yes. So those of you in the control
room over there, make sure the automation is in automatic
mode so that everything will keep running for people who
aren't with us, but probably not gonna happen tonight. Or
then again, you never know, but probably not. OK, uh,
so let's see, that's part of it. I mean, when
you think not, yes, yes, oh me of little faith. Yeah,
(07:59):
that's what it's gonna happen.
Here's a question sent in from Wendy in Casa Grande, Arizona,
where she listens on the Kwave app. Thank you, Wendy,
for downloading the app and for sending in your question.
She asks, is it OK for a single Christian woman
to try in vitro fertilization IVF because she desperately wants offspring.
(08:21):
So we don't know if this is Wendy speaking of
herself or maybe a friend or somebody, a sister, but, uh,
Doctor Scott Ray, professor of philosophy and Christian ethics at
the Talbot School of Theology at Byola University. Let's say you,
I take it that one's for me. Yes, yes, for sure.
We've been waiting weeks to ask you.
Well, I, I have great sympathy for people who want
(08:42):
to have children and for whatever reason either relationships or
biology has not cooperated with that so I, I sent
that longing for a child is part of our procreative
constitution that's baked into us and that's that's, that's from God.
Uh, however, the scripture is really clear that procreation is
(09:05):
to take place within the confines of permanent monogamous, heterosexual
marriage between one man and one woman.
Uh, and this, you know, and that, that's not to
put a knock on single mothers who may who may
be single, not by choice, either through divorce or they've,
they've lost their husband, uh, but the single mother by choice,
(09:27):
that's a different thing altogether, uh, and I think that
is procreation outside the bounds of marriage, which I think
the scripture, uh, the scripture looks, let's just say looks
very skeptically on.
Uh, and I think as well children it seems to
me have a right to a father and a mother,
and you know, fathers and mothers are not interchangeable. They
(09:48):
do different things. They are wired differently. They provide different
things for the well-being of a child and I think,
I think the single mother by choice is a is
a problem for the well-being of children. Now I'm sure
I'm sure Wendy's will would be a wonderful mom.
But she can't be a mom and a dad both,
and I think children are entitled if at all possible,
(10:11):
children are entitled to a mom and a dad both.
I would suggest to her that adoption would be an
option or one option she might not have thought about
uh is a little different than traditional option, but it's
embryo adoption.
Which you can you can do uh from couples who
have embryos left over from IVF they will sometimes put
them up for adoption to other people who want who
(10:33):
want to have children, mostly to other infertile couples um
but I think that that that would be a form
of adoption that I think would be would be OK, uh,
because I think adopt adopting though adopted by a single
person I would say is not ideal for the child
it's better than most of the other options that are
out there.
And so embryos that are not adopted will either stay
(10:56):
in stay frozen, which I think is unethical, uh, because
embryos are not just clumps of cells they're they're human
persons in in embryonic form. They're just, they just haven't
matured yet into fetuses and newborns and toddlers and and
so on, um.
And it gives an embryo adoption gives a woman most
(11:18):
of what she wants with with reproduction in the first place.
It gives her pregnancy gives her childbirth, gives the bonding
of the child in utero, all those are positive things.
It just doesn't give her a genetic connection, but in
the scriptures.
It seems to me what the scripture emphasizes most when
it comes to parenting and children is not so much
(11:39):
the transmission of genetics but it's the transmission of values
and spirituality that's the that's the important part, uh, and
she's quite capable of doing that even without a genetic connection.
Any thoughts, Brian?
I only, I would just say, um, and, and, you know, Scott, you,
you implied this, but I just would, I'm just thinking
(11:59):
of the, the women who might be listening who had
children out of wedlock, and we're not saying that you're
unfit to raise your kids or any of that. We're
just saying that in this particular instance with this kind
of a question, this is the way if you have
the option, yeah, if you have the option, yeah.
Now Scott, you've written several books. Is there one in
(12:22):
particular that, uh, perhaps would be a good one for
if Wendy wanted to read more on this? Yes, it's
called Outside the womb, uh, Moral Guidance for Assisted Reproduction. Ah,
there it is. It's on the, uh, biola.edu website if
you look for Doctor Scott's profile there, Scott Ray, but
you can also find it on there's I say if
you want a shorter version of this.
(12:44):
Uh, my, my book called Introducing Christian Ethics, A Short
Guide to Making Moral Choices has a whole chapter on
infertility and reproductive technology. I think I saw moral choices
over here at the chapel store. I was browsing through the, uh,
bookstore there, and I was like, God bless Scott Ray.
I know him, yeah.
And it wasn't in the bargain section or I'm glad,
you know, and, and if you come to my house, uh,
(13:06):
you could see on my bookshelf I have a couple
of Scott rate books. The big fan Moral Choices is
about to go to its 5th edition. Wow. And there's
some updates of, uh, a lot of things that are
rapidly changing in our, I, I, I heard today that, um,
what was it Singapore? No, wait, where was it?
(13:27):
It was an Asian country, Thailand, some somewhere, anyway, they
uh they've had a horrible time finding a, a good
finance minister and an honest finance minister and a capable
finance minister, so they voted in AI to be their
(13:47):
finance minister for the country. I just heard that today. Uh,
is it Albania?
Albania? No, no, it was, it was Asia. It was, I,
I thought it was from Hong Kong. Yeah, it was
in Hong Kong. It was, it was either, well, this
says here two days ago Albania introduces world's first AI minister. OK, well.
(14:08):
I don't know. Maybe the person I was listening to
had it a little confused, I guess I know it
was a chatbot finance minister. Well, we'll see what we'll
see what it can do. That'll be interesting. It's so
funny because both of my daughters are pretty, uh.
They're, they're pretty into chat GPT, you know, and so
like sometimes we're talking and then my daughter will just say, well,
(14:29):
you know, Chat said this and that, you know, I'm
listening and I'm going on I'm going, I get so
what who said what? And she said, Chat. Oh, you
mean you're talking to your the information you mean your
brother Char? No, chat. It's like they have this ongoing
relational thing with chat GBT and I'm like.
OK, now girls just be a little careful with that.
(14:52):
Maybe we pump the brakes on that just a tad,
and they do it mostly for they're, they're both in business,
so they do it mostly for like, you know, business
questions and things like that or.
So some of it has to do with what was
it my daughter was um
Oh, she bought a sling for her baby and she
wanted to know what Chad thought about it and had
all the reasons why I thought about the sling or
(15:14):
about the baby. The sling. Oh yeah, the baby in
the sling. I got a check and Chat wasn't a
big fan of Baby in the sling, really? Yeah, OK, yes, interesting.
All right, Wendy, I'd say Chat's wrong about that.
My daughter agreed that Chat was wrong on that one.
Thank you, Wendy, for sending in your question. And here's
another one that we're going to do before we go
to the phones at 888-564-6173. Matt in Orange, California, listening
(15:39):
on FM 107.9, writes, Since the biola guy is there,
that would be you, Scott. How do we argue Moses?
Moses is different than Joseph Smith. If both are the
ultimate source of what they wrote, and for both, we
lack the source copies.
Well, whether we have the
Whether we have the source copies or not is irrelevant
(16:01):
to this, because what the scripture, what the scripture claims
is inspired is the finished product, not the sources that
go into it.
Uh, but whether we have the sources or not it
has nothing to do with what, what Moses claimed for
itself and what what has been canonically recognized for centuries
(16:24):
and what Jesus recognized as authoritative, uh, and Jesus, I
think in in John 14 to 16 gave promises to
the apostles about the inspiration of the New Testament books.
Um, and to, to the best of my knowledge, none
of that applies to anything outside the canon of the
New Testament. Uh, plus, I think the
(16:46):
The material, one of the tests for whether it was
included in the canon of the of the Bible was
its consistency with previous revelation, and there's, I mean, there's
an innumerable things where uh the revelation of Joseph Smith is,
is in contrary to what uh the biblical teaching is. Yeah,
and I think too there's just the, the historical verification.
(17:09):
I mean, you know, you can, you can verify.
Stuff that Moses wrote about today. I mean, we have
archaeology for a long time for a long time, and
you cannot find the stuff that Joseph Smith and those
connected with him wrote about like some civilization here in
North America or South America, you know, the, the Israelites
(17:30):
migrating here and setting up this amazing world, and nobody's
ever been able to find a single rock, not a
shred related to it, so.
Not to mention his theological, um,
Differences, you know, with what scripture plainly says, so.
Matt, thank you for sending in your question on the
(17:51):
pastor's perspective page on Kwave.com. 888-564-6173 is the number to call.
We've got Brian Broderson and Doctor Scott Ray here to
answer your questions. And let's go up to Coos Bay, Oregon.
Here is James who's watching us on Facebook, so let's
wave to James. Hey there, thanks for calling in. What's
your question for us, James?
(18:11):
Hi, I've called in a couple of times recently. I'm,
I'm the guy that has a little bit of his
brain missing. They just took it out a little more
than 6 months ago, and I'm doing absolutely wonderful. I'm
enrolled into college. Um, I'm in a civil engineering program,
and God is good. I just want to remind everybody
that God's good and share my testimony a little bit.
And there was a young lady that called yesterday and
she seemed like she was having a really hard time.
(18:32):
And I try to remember my God's faithful. And do
you guys agree that
The reason, when I asked why before, I mean, why
can I find out what the, um,
But the purpose of this happening is, so I can
learn from it because I find that through the Bible, he,
he allows hardship and bad things to happen, only to
glorify Him.
(18:54):
And make others come to him, but there's always some
type of lesson in the things that he allows. I have,
I haven't, I, I, I, I've had some horrible things.
My son has muscular dystrophy. Like I said, I've been
dealing with seizures and other stuff for years. Um, my
dad's an ex- addict, um.
I, you know, I've gone, you know, go through the list.
(19:14):
I've had some stuff happen in my life and I
always have God. He's always there and he's always faithful
to me. So my question is, do you guys believe
that there's lessons in all of the things that he
allows us to go through and that he's a good
and faithful God.
Yes, all of the above. I'll, I'll say particularly yes
to the latter part, um, but I would, I would
nuance that first part maybe a little, a little differently.
(19:37):
Uh, because I think there are lessons, but it's not
clear to me from, from the scriptures that God allows
us to see all of those lessons this side of eternity.
I think Ecclesiastes is among other places is pretty clear that, uh, God,
God has not given us the, the, the, the box
(19:58):
top of the jigsaw puzzle to see how all the
puzzle pieces of our lives fit together into a coherent whole.
I tell my students at Talbot.
It's often like looking at the design of an oriental
rug from the underside. This side on on this side
of eternity, you could sort of faintly make it up
but there's lots of knots and loose ends and you can,
(20:18):
you know, if you look hard you can see a design,
but once you're on, on top of it.
On the other side of eternity, that design becomes intricate
and beautiful and coherent, and I, you know, I, I,
I happen to think you know I'd be interested to
see what you think about this too that if God
actually showed us how all those events of our lives
fit into a coherent whole, I suspect we might ask
(20:40):
for another option.
We might ask for Plan B. Uh, yeah. Well, I think, um,
I think the second question and the answer to the
second question, kind of, you know, in a sense, it
sort of answers the first question as well. And I
think what you're saying, Scott, what I hear you saying
is that.
Um, yes, God is working, you know, like Romans 8:28 says,
(21:02):
God is working all things together for good. We might
not understand that this side, um, we, we might, we,
I think we will understand some things, um, but I
don't think that the totality of things. I mean, there
are things in my life still, you know, I went through,
I think we've talked about this before. I went, you know,
I went through 20 years of chronic illness and um I,
(21:25):
I can see.
Especially with hindsight, I can see reasons why and what
God did through it, but I, I could have thought
of a lot of other ways for those things to happen.
I'd be living through 20 years with a chronic illness,
you know, so it's like, so I think there's, there's
still stuff that I, I don't really know, you know,
(21:47):
and I think that there is, um, I remember, uh,
you know, there was a season in my life not
too many years ago where
Uh, people would ask me, you know, how I was doing,
and I would say, well, you know, I'm kind of
in the belly of the fish, you know, I'm not
sure where I'm gonna get spit up, and I know
I'm going somewhere, but, uh, right now it's kind of
(22:09):
dark and, you know, it's, it's kind of a mystery.
That's honest, but I know God's, he's in control of
the fish.
Yeah, Solomon points out this in Ecclesiastes 3.
Ever beginning in verse 11 that he God has made
everything beautiful in his time. He said eternity in the
human heart, yet no one can fathom what God has
done from beginning to end.
(22:31):
What that means is that we, we don't, we don't get,
we don't get the big picture of how all of
the stuff in our life is together because I think
all of us will go to glory with some why questions. Yeah, yeah,
and I think especially like if we're, if we're thinking
about the future, you know, like the idea. I, I agree,
I agree 100% and I've even said this about myself,
(22:52):
you know, if, if God would have said, you know,
because there's certain key points in my life where the Lord,
you know, led me to do stuff.
But, um, and, and I feel kind of like you
have a picture of this with Paul the Apostle. So Paul,
Paul knows he's going to Rome. He has a desire
to go to Rome. He writes to the church in
Rome and says, uh, uh, you know, he that he's
(23:13):
long to come and he wants to have this mutual
exchange where they're both building one another up in the
faith and all of that, you know, so, and on
my way to Spain, I'm coming to you. So Paul
has an idea, he's going to Rome, the Lord's gonna
send him.
I'm pretty sure he had no idea how that was
gonna happen. I think he had a a totally different idea.
It was gonna be smooth sailing all the way, and
(23:35):
he does go to Rome, so he got that part right,
but he does, but none of the details were revealed
to him in advance, and I've kind of thought the
same thing in experiences in my own life, you know,
the Lord's gonna, I'm gonna do this and this and
that with you, but I'm not gonna tell you how
because
You might chicken out or you know it would it
would no longer be walking by faith. Exactly, yeah, or
(23:57):
you try to make it happen, right? You, you, OK,
got it, got the plan, God, here I go. Yeah,
which is exactly what we doesn't don't want it to do.
All right, James, thanks for your phone call today on
Pastor's Perspective. Now let's go to Carolyn, who's listening on
FM 107.9 in Louisiana, or is it Los Angeles? One
of those two, just as LA. I'm assuming Los Angeles. Hello, Carolyn. Yes.
(24:19):
Hello there. Thank you for taking my call.
I have a layman's question.
In reference to Malachi 3 and 8 and the related
scripture on tithing, can you give me
A
In depth are as much as possible understanding of that.
(24:43):
How much time do you have?
Well, we have a half hour left on the program,
but we probably don't wanna take. I'll start with this. OK,
you gotta say it right too because I grew up
in the South and it was tithe that you talked
about and uh and in in the Old Testament there
was the the tithe was probably closer to 22% as
(25:05):
opposed to 10%.
And in the in the New Testament, Brian, you may,
you may see us differently than I do, but in
the New Testament, the only things that I see that
regulate our giving is that it's to be done with
generosity and openhandedness, right, realizing that everything we have belongs
to God, but also 2 Corinthians Paul makes it clear
(25:27):
that it's not to be done under compulsion.
Nobody should feel coerced or out of guilt, but it
should be done, it should be done cheerfully, joyfully, and
that assumes, you know, entirely voluntarily. And so in my view,
I don't think that in the New Testament era, I
don't think there's a number attached to that.
(25:48):
Uh, however, at the same time, I would say for
I guess is for most of our listeners.
You could probably give a little bit more than you're
giving now.
And it would be OK. Why are you looking at me?
You would be OK because I'm applying that to you too, uh, and, and,
and you probably wouldn't feel it much financially at, at
(26:10):
the end of the day. I'd give 22% if the
government didn't take 22%. No I'm joking. The taxation and
giving are not the same thing. Let's be clear about that. OK,
give me a fist bump because you and I are
on the same page and I've said that very thing
on this program.
Dozens and dozens of times and sometimes I get push back,
(26:30):
you know, people, you know, sometimes pastors don't, they don't like,
you know, you shouldn't tell people that they don't have
to talk because and you know, OK, I get, I
get that part of it, but I think just being
honest with, with scripture, there's no, there's no New Testament
reference to it outside of the Gospels, and the gospels
are still in many ways they're still in an old
(26:51):
that's correct, that's still in the law, yeah.
And so, and Jesus, you know, mentions it, but when
you get to the teaching of the apostles, which is
the teaching for the church, uh, we're never told, like
you said, Scott, we're never told uh an amount, um,
and we're we're told to, to give generously, we're told
to give joyfully.
Uh, we're told to give, I think, faithfully.
(27:14):
I mean, the the funny thing though is when you
look at the passages, even the passages that we use
to teach on this with, the context of them is
not even exactly like, OK,
Now we're having church and here's what you do in
church to take an offering, you know, the New Testament
never tells you that, that all of the all of
(27:35):
the things that we're referring to are uh conversations that
the apostle is having with the church that had promised
to give, and he's gonna count on them.
Coming through with their promise so he can take the
gift to another church. And so then he's telling them, OK,
that that happened to be experiencing famine at the time.
(27:56):
So he's telling them this is what you do on
the first day of the week, you know, lay aside
something as each one determines in their own heart. That's right. So,
so we take that, we gather on the first day
of the week, that's Sunday, and OK, so let everybody
give as, you know, and then we, we, and to
be clear too.
You know, we're commanded to give not for God's benefit
(28:18):
but for ours, and the reason for that is because
our giving breaks the power of money in our lives.
I think that's fundamentally why we're asking to give. God,
God's kingdom can get along just fine without our without
anybody's giving, and, and we're demonstrating faith. We're we're trusting God.
We're saying, OK, I'm gonna, I'm gonna trust God for
(28:38):
what I would normally trust this amount of money for
and just trust God's gonna take care of me.
Caroline, thanks for your phone call today on Pastor's perspective.
And here's a way out there question. Have you seen
these calendars now that they, you look at them from
left to right, they go from Monday to Sunday. So
Monday is the first day of the week. So if
we're supposed to gather on the first day of the week,
(28:58):
are people gonna look at that and say, oh, now
we have to gather on Monday? Uh oh, that sounds
a little we're gonna throw everything off now. It sounds
a little anti-Christish, you know, gonna change seasons. That's right.
The new calendars, that's what they're gonna show. All right,
break time here on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is the number
to call if you've got a question for Pastor Brian
(29:21):
Broderson or Doctor Scott Ray, the professor of philosophy and
And Christian ethics at the Talbot School of Theology at
Biola University. Biola, the most comprehensively Christian university in North America.
You can find out more about them at biola.edu biola.edu. 888-564-6173.
(29:41):
Give us a call.
(30:20):
Man, I'm like getting tangled up in my headphones here.
Hate when that happens. Welcome back to Pastor's Perspective. I'm
Brian Perez here with Pastor Brian Broderson and Doctor Scott Ray,
taking your calls at 888-564-6173 for about another 25 minutes
or so. So grab an open line, 888-564-6173. You guys
ready for more questions?
(30:42):
Let's go for it. Let's do it. OK, here's Robert,
who's listening on FM 107.9 K wave in Temecula. Hey, Robert,
what's your question for us today?
Uh, yes, I was talking to a brother and we're
shopping in iron. Uh, he was telling me on the
end times that it already has, uh, arrived and it's
(31:07):
over with. And me and him has been arguing back
and forth and, well, not arguing but disgusting, and he
gave me several verses.
So I've been looking it up and trying to find
ways to let them know that the end times has
(31:27):
not came and left and so I wanted to see
if you guys have any verses to back up that
it has not came.
Well, do you know any of the verses he's using
to argue his?
Point of view? Yes, yes, uh, I'll give you a
(31:50):
couple of them. uh, Luke 2132, Matthew 24:34.
Mark 13:30.
And Daniel 124.
(32:11):
And 12 9.
Unfortunately, I couldn't do the sword drill that quickly. I
got the first one. Luke 21:32 assuredly I say to
you this generation will by no means pass away till
all things take place. And then he's probably just using the, uh,
synoptics using Matthew and Mark with a parallel passage there. Um, OK,
(32:32):
first of all, I, I think it's really simply, and
it sounds like Robert, you're, you're not, uh, persuaded by
his arguments, which, um, is good because you shouldn't be.
Because the the end times culminate with the coming of Jesus.
So I think we all can agree Jesus has not
come back yet, and especially in the way, if you
(32:53):
keep reading those passages that he's referring to, uh, all
of those passages, Matthew 24, Luke 21, Mark 13, all
of them.
Tell you about the Lord's return, that's kind of the
main point there. Um, secondly, the passage that, uh, he's
(33:14):
referring to this generation will not pass until all these
things are fulfilled. I think the mistake is to think
that he's referring to the generation that he's talking to
versus the generation that sees the things that he says
are going to happen.
So when he says this generation, I think he's talking
about the, he's he's describing all the stuff that's gonna
(33:36):
go on and then he says this generation. So he's
talking about the people that that are living at the time.
So that would be either us or people out in
the future from us. Yeah, just one thing to add
to that, uh, the, the Bible, I think is pretty
clear that when the Lord returns, we're gonna know he
will come. Well, he will, he will he will his
kingdom will come in its fullness.
(33:56):
And what that, what that means that the world's gonna
look a lot different when the kingdom comes in its
fullness than it does today because sin and corruption will be,
will be no more. I mean every knee will bow
at the name of Christ, uh, you know, we'll have
a properly ordered society where God's righteousness will rule. Uh,
(34:16):
I mean doesn't take a lot of imagination to see
that that's, that's a big difference than what we have today.
Big difference, yes.
Robert, does this help you?
Uh, a little bit, uh, same, same thought pattern as me, but, uh,
I wanted to get some verses to.
(34:41):
Explain why it has not returned yet.
Well, because I've been looking it up as well and
I'm having a little trouble finding. OK, but what's, what's
his evidence that Jesus does he think Jesus has returned?
Yes, he believes that Jesus has already returned and the
(35:03):
end times have came, and he's talking about the generation
was back then on that generation. Is he a preterist?
Does he think Jesus came back in '7080 or?
He used to be a Mormon and he is a
Christian now, but uh he has some questions, so there's
(35:25):
times that we discuss things, you know, like one that
we're still talking about is free will as well, but
it's just we go back and forth on conversations but
I'm having a little difficult uh finding verses to um.
Well, I, you know, I, I, I think Robert, um,
(35:48):
like the very passages that you're referring to, if you
just read, read them in their entirety, not just the,
the one section that he's talking about, and I think
it will, I, I mean, it has to, I know
there are some people who try to argue that Jesus
has already come back and he's already ruling and so forth,
but I, I think it's just so blatantly obvious that
(36:10):
that isn't the case and
When you look at the passages Matthew 24 or Mark
13 or Luke 21, just read them in their entirety
then just simply ask yourself a question. Has this happened yet?
And if Jesus's words mean anything, if words mean what
they purport to mean, then you're gonna have to say, no,
(36:34):
this did not happen, this never happened, this has not happened.
Jesus says that these days are gonna be so intense,
no one would be left alive unless the Lord has
shortened the days. So, there's lots of people, there's 8
billion people on the planet, so that certainly hasn't happened.
So I think if you just read the text yourself,
you're gonna find that your friend has come under the
(36:57):
um influence of some teaching that just is not biblical.
Robert, thank you for your phone call today here on
Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is our number. And, uh, let's read
a question that was sent in online. This one is
from Wendy, who writes, Hello, pastors, I have a dilemma
here in my household. I live with my mom and
(37:19):
my two grown adult daughters. Me and my mom are Christian.
My daughters are still trying to discover what they believe in.
My one daughter loves costumes and dressing up from Disneyland
to Halloween to Christmas, all different types all year long.
She just has fun with it. Every year she decorates
the inside of the house for the Halloween, Thanksgiving, and
(37:40):
Christmas holidays. She puts up friendly ghosts and googly eyes
and spiders here and there. She just has fun. This year,
she did a Halloween-themed Christmas tree. Then she'll take it down,
or then she'll take down the decorations and put up
Christmas decorations after Halloween.
Here's the dilemma. Um, Wendy says, My daughter feels my
(38:00):
mom is being very judgmental, singing gospel music loudly, walking
around the house trying to annoy my daughter because my
mom does not like the Halloween decorations. She constantly repeats
to everyone, I do not celebrate Halloween. This is not
typical behavior for my mom to walk around singing gospel
music very loudly. This is new this year.
(38:23):
How do I keep the peace between my mom and
my daughter regarding this issue? Scott, sounds like she needs
a marital the marriage and family therapist, OK, uh, or
at least a very skilled pastor, uh, involved in this,
you know, I, you know, and I think there's room
for legitimate debate about Halloween, um, you know, I think
(38:45):
as long as long as our kids are clear that,
you know, there is, there is a spirit world.
You know that there is a.
There there's more than just the physical world and our
physical bodies. There is, there's a spiritual realm, um.
And, and I think just to be careful that you're not,
(39:06):
you know, that you're not overly engaged with the spiritual world.
I mean, I remember, uh, CS Lewis in the screw
tape letters wrote that you can make, you can make
one of two errors about, about demons and devils. One
is to deny their existence and one is to give
them too much importance.
Um, and I think, I think he was right about that,
and it seems to me that, you know, Halloween, you know,
(39:29):
for most families, I think is a case what I
would call no harm, no foul, and it's, you know,
I think as long as our kids, you know, they,
if they know that, you know, so this, you know, this,
this stuff is real.
Uh, but, but it's nothing to be afraid of. Uh, I, I, I,
I don't have a problem with that, you know, maybe
decorating a a Christmas tree with Halloween decorations, that's maybe that's,
(39:50):
that's a little over the line. I probably wouldn't, I
probably wouldn't go for that in my house, uh, and
I think, you know, may maybe mom and daughter can
compromise on that one, but you know, other than that, I,
I think I, you know.
I, I'd probably tell mom to loosen, lighten up a
(40:10):
little bit, and for the daughter to maybe scratch the
Christmas tree.
Yeah, I, you know, I think most people
Um, I think Halloween is just purely a cultural thing.
Most kids think of it as I'm gonna get a
bunch of free candy, and I'm going to the dentist. Yeah, yeah,
the parents are thinking that the kids are thinking, um,
(40:33):
and I know I said I said this many times
and I would, some people got really upset at me, but, um,
the biggest, um.
Kind of uh supporter of Halloween in our family was
my father-in-law, Pastor Chuck, uh, in the sense that he
loved taking my kids trick or treating, so he would,
(40:55):
he would, I think he came down, it just seems
like he was always there on Halloween and he was
always taking the kids out, you know, Cheryl would get
them dressed up and then he would take them to
the neighborhood and, uh, you know, he just loved it.
He delighted in being.
Uh, with, with his kids and that, and, you know,
there was never a moment where he said, oh, no,
we can't do this because, you know, this is, uh,
(41:17):
so sure, there are some people, there's some weird people
in the culture that, uh, you know, they latch on
to the ancient spiritual aspects of it and wanna do
something with that, but the majority of people do not.
And I think, I think when Christians make too big
of a deal of it, we almost look like, what
(41:39):
in the world are those Christians talking about?
Yeah, I think it may be a little bit like
you may disagree with me on this, but it may
be a little bit like the families that didn't read
the Harry Potter books. Yes, yes, a very, very, very
and we, you know, we read all our kids love
those things, and saw the movies and uh.
You know, and I actually, you know, delighted to support
(42:00):
JK Rowling, yeah, because she's stands for a lot of
the right things. Yeah, and she's in a faith journey
right now, which is so interesting, yeah, yeah, I've been
thinking about her because I follow her, and I've been,
she's talking, you know, as you probably know, Scott, she's
talking about kind of just wondering about faith and I'm thinking,
I'm thinking about people I know in the UK who
(42:21):
are um.
Who are influential enough that they could they could cross
her path and I'm just praying like Lord, connect with
those people, you know, that would be so cool. But
I wanted to say something because I just, it just
reminded me when I, when you were talking, Scott, I
listened to you and Sean and your conversation with Clint Arnold,
(42:45):
and I loved it. Yeah, it was so good and
The funny thing is I have Clint's book and I
got it back. I must have got it back when
it first came out. I know. And when, when you
guys said it was '92, I think it was published,
I was like, holy smokes, I think it was from 1992.
So you know, I wrote a book on spiritual warfare
and I'm, I'm kind of doing a little bit of
an update on it before we reprint and I'm using
(43:08):
some stuff from Clint's book. He's got some great stuff
in there, so yeah, thank you for mentioning our think
biblically think biblically. I love think biblically.
Is this the podcast here, Spiritual warfare and the powers
of darkness. Yeah, so Clint, that sounds very much like
the title of your book. The book is called The
Power of the Powers of Darkness. Minus the powers of
Darkness and the people of God, but I, I forgot
(43:30):
that was the title of his book, so it wasn't
like I was ripping him off, you know, I was just, uh.
Now I think he's probably, you know, of all the
New Testament scholars I know out there, he's probably done
the best work in this area. You know, he is
such a great guy. He's one of the humblest people
I've ever met in my life. And you know what
I've been, I've been using his, um, his sort of pictorial, uh,
(43:53):
journey through acts. That thing is fantastic. He did such
a great job on that because I love all the,
you know, he's got all the archaeology stuff in there
and he's got the maps and everything and I just.
I just love looking at all that stuff when I'm
when I'm thinking about Paul's journeys, and yeah, it's so good.
All right, check that out. It's the Think Biblically podcast,
(44:13):
and this episode titled Spiritual Warfare and the Powers of Darkness.
And speaking of Paul's journeys, Sunday nights.
Back to basics Live Acts chapter 19. We are going
to Ephesus. So come and join us if you want
a Bible study at 6:30, Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa in
the fellowship hall. Nobody does Bible studies on Sunday nights anymore.
(44:37):
I know. I'm bringing it back, yay, you know, bringing
it back to basics. Back to basics live, yes. Nice. OK, Wendy, oh,
and really quick just on Wendy's question.
Um, and Scott, you mentioned that maybe there should be
a therapist involved in this situation with his family, but
um that was partly in, yeah, that, that's why I
wanted to, to kind of go back to that. So,
(44:59):
you know, Wendy says that her mom is just going
around the house singing gospel music. I don't know if
she's doing it because she's seeing these decorations of spiders
and whatnot all over the house, and she's singing the
music extra loud just to uh
Word off spirits or something, I don't know, but how
would you address that?
I'd say pray, pray quietly instead of sing loudly.
(45:23):
Maybe talk to Grandma, say, you know, mom, maybe, maybe,
maybe just relax a little bit with this. Hey, uh,
I got a text from our, our mutual friend and
Scott's boss.
Uh, Doctor Ed Stetzer.
He says that our he want me to give the
phone number out more? No, he says our Facebook stream
(45:43):
is going in and out. What? So what's going on here?
I don't know. Facebook people, take a look at that. Yeah,
thank you. Thank you, Ed, for letting us know about that.
All right, here's another question that was sent in online,
by the way.
Uh, 888-564-6173. That'll make Ed proud if he hears me
give him the phone number, cause that's his job when
he's here on the program. But since, uh, since I'm
(46:05):
here today, I gotta do it. 888-564-6173. Alex in West
Hollywood writes, I have been single, introvert, and shy for decades,
and my prayer requests go unanswered. I took a chance
three years ago with someone from church, and she dumped
me for a guy 170 miles away.
They're still in a long distance relationship, and I still
(46:27):
feel bitter. I do not have the gift of celibacy,
so why does God let me burn? Doesn't the word
say it's not good for man to be alone? I
cannot go on like this. Scott, what do you say
to Alex? Well, it's not good for, I think what
what they meant in Genesis 1 and 2 is it's
not good for mankind.
(46:48):
To be alone, uh, and it was, you know, marriage
was one of the ways that God had in mind
to remedy that. The other one was the crea was
as they procreate the creation of a community to, to
remedy that. So marriage was never designed to, to, to
be the the the answer you know, completely and by
(47:09):
itself to our aloneness. That's putting way too much pressure
on another person and I think you actually run the
risk of idolatry, uh, with that other person.
Uh, and the Bible affirms singleness as, you know, a
good thing. Um, now you may not see it that way,
and I, I was a singles pastor for about 5
years before joining the Talbot faculty, and a lot of
(47:31):
my single adults did not really, they saw it more
as a curse instead of a gift, uh, but I
think the Bible affirms singleness as a good thing, uh,
and in some and in some, in some instances, uh.
It's more expedient than marriage, uh, so, um, I think
in the, the passages we're we're speaking to is in
(47:53):
1 Corinthians 7:9 we, we're speaking to married couples who
are for a variety of reasons are denying normal sexual
relations between husband and wife, and that the admonition was for.
You know, for husband and wife to engage in regular
sexual relations so that neither of them burn with passion
and therefore be tempted to satisfy those desires outside the
(48:13):
boundaries of marriage. That's the that's the point that Paul
was making there. So I don't, I, it was that
passage was not intended for unmarried adults, uh, or I
think it, it, I think it was all it was
intended for people who were.
Uh, in a relationship and maybe questioning, do we marry.
(48:38):
Is that more spiritual or do we stay single? And
so Paul says, he says, if you marry, you don't sin.
You know, this is, this is not a sin issue. um,
but I think too, Scott, and I think you would
agree with me on this. I think that for, for
a long time, maybe we, we did.
Not intentionally, but we sort of, uh, elevated marriage to
(49:01):
the point that that we made single people feel like, unintentionally, completely,
but we made them sort of feel like, you know,
if I'm gonna be a full person and a full Christian,
I need to get married. And yet there's so much
in scripture in that passage, you know, of course, in
1 Corinthians 7, Paul's talking about the virtues of singleness,
(49:22):
like you, there's a lot of benefits to being single.
But it, but it's in relation to serving Christ. And
so I have some wonderful friends who have been single
their whole lives and that's just.
And you know, they're they're part of the church, they're
part of the ministry, and I don't think they ever
feel like, oh, I'm missing out, you know, they've got
(49:44):
great fellowship, they've got lots of deep friendships, um, but
I would say to our our uh questionnaire there also,
you know, when you're talking about burning, are you
Are you doing something to sort of intensify that level
of desire sometimes, you know, people getting into pornography and
(50:06):
things like that, that's gonna exacerbate the problem. So you
wanna be, you want to get away from that stuff
and focus on, you know, the things of the spirit.
I think Brian, to your point about marriage too, I
think in the culture in general, I think we've, we've
oversold sex and what it can provide, but I think
in many of our churches we've oversold marriage.
(50:26):
Too, and what it can provide because you know, in
my view marriage is the union of two basically miserable wretched,
self-centered sinners who are trying to tell us how you
really feel who are trying to make a goal of it, um,
and you know marriage is not a destination.
You know, it's finding a traveling partner.
And I found, you know, my, you know, I found
(50:47):
a lot, lots of people have said, you know, marriage
is the tool that God has used to sort of
chip away at the rough edges of our character, uh, and,
you know, sometimes painfully so.
So I think I, you know, I think there's, there's,
you know, there's a lot, a lot of place in
scripture that that gives.
Um, what I wanna call affirmation to people who to,
(51:10):
who are who are single, either, either by choice or not, yeah, and, and,
and rather than sitting around sort of lamenting singleness, get
into what does God want to do with my life, right?
You know, because when you're in God's will and you're
doing the thing that the Lord has created you for and.
(51:30):
And fashioned you for, that's where fulfillment comes. That's where
you're like, OK. And then, you know, if there is,
I mean, I think
You know, if there is this this deep desire to marry,
you know, maybe
Maybe God will bring somebody along, but you know, I
think of people like John Stott, you know, John Stott,
(51:50):
who was a great, um, evangelical leader in Britain for
many years, and he chose a single life, not because
he didn't desire marriage. There was a season in his
life where he actually had a woman that he thought
he might marry, but they both concluded that they were
called to live singly for the glory of God. Yeah,
and I think if, you know, the question we have
(52:11):
to be asking is can, you know, can I serve
the kingdom better.
Married this person as opposed to being single. That's the question, yeah. Alex,
thank you for sending in your question on the Kwave.com
pastor's perspective page, or maybe you scanned the QR code
on Facebook, YouTube, or Instagram because we've got one of
those QR codes there. If you scan it, it takes
(52:32):
you right to that pastor's perspective page on Kwave.com. Heather
in Huntington Beach, welcome to Pastor's Perspective. Thanks for calling 888-564-6173.
Hi, can you hear me OK?
OK. Hi, um,
My sister is going through an issue with her, uh, new,
(52:52):
new Christian husband. He's, he's now become, he's going to a,
a Calvary Chapel. And he's, uh, he, he's made her
get rid of, um, she just brought all these boxes
of rocks and, and her, she's collected rocks and crystals
throughout the years and, and some books on gardening, herbs
and stuff, and hikers thing. And, uh, and I guess
it's the, there's somebody at their church that he goes
(53:14):
to a Bible study with, and they said that it
was a gal that said,
You have a gargoyle in your house or something. I
feel like there's a gargoyle in your house or something
to that effect. And he came home and looked at
this green man little statue thing that she had out
in the yard. It's not a gargoyle by any means,
but he made. Is it a gnome? Because there's a
difference between a garden gnome and a gargoyle, I would say. No, there's,
(53:34):
it's not a gnome. It's a green man. It's called
a green man and it's just a, it looks like
a son. It's about like, um, it's a smiling son.
It's is what it is. And so he, the problem
is she, she, she uh emailed.
Pastor and, and asked him, you know, my gardening books
and stuff. And, and I mean, these are two like he,
she couldn't even keep, she was able to keep a
(53:55):
rock that my grandpa painted on for us, you know,
when we were kids and stuff. But, um, the pastor said, yes,
all that stuff has to go. And she's like, my
rings are diamonds. Is that a rock too? I mean, everything,
and it's like, like it's way crazy. And so I'm wondering,
he's a new Christian. I'm wondering if that's false prophecy
from the gal and if so, why would this cowry?
We're really confused and really concerned for her because, well, listen.
(54:17):
And the thing is, her, her daughter, I'm sorry, her
daughter is and they're trying to, he's trying to bring
the whole family to Christianity, and he is pushing them
away so hard. Well, this sounds like a classic case of, um,
zeal without knowledge, you know, he's apparently a young Christian
and now he's all excited and now, you know, he
wants to make sure that everything is purified and and
(54:38):
all of that, but he's going way, way overboard. The,
the unfortunate thing is the pastor's encouraging that. So this
is where
Uh, I don't know what Calvary Chapel that is, but
you can just rest assured that this is not like
a doctrine of Calvary Chapel, that just happens to be
apparently this, this pastor. So, um, yeah, this is, um,
(54:59):
this is just, you know, he's gone, gone overboard in
his zeal, and hopefully, uh, he will get things balanced out.
Uh, your sister, you can assure your sister that there's,
there's nobody who is mature in the faith who's going
to be recommending any of this kind of behavior.
What do you think? I, I completely agree. I think
(55:22):
this is going way overboard, and I would not, you know,
I would not, uh, get rid of your gardening books
and your gardening tools and all that kind of stuff
and garden gnomes and all that. Although this creepy thing,
I mean, it's creepy looking, but I wouldn't say it's
come on, that's a smiling sun. What's so creepy about it?
But it's green. Looks like, oh, I don't know, might
be evil. No, I don't know. All right, uh, thanks
(55:45):
for trying this question. He's gonna.
Tell you to get rid of you throw them all away. No,
I'm joking. All right, thanks you guys for joining us
today on Pastor's Perspective. We'll do it again tomorrow between
3 and 4. Doctor Scott Ray, thanks for coming in, sir. Oh,
God bless you guys.
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez,
and we're gonna be here in the studio for another
or for the next hour, and we're gonna be talking
to you about whatever it is you want to talk about.
If you've got questions about the Bible, the Christian faith,
Christian ethics, well, call in 888-564-6173 is the number to call, and, uh,
(00:38):
we've got Doctor.
Scott Ray from Biola University here today. Hey there, Scott. Yeah,
thank you. Glad to be with you all. Good to
have you here. Yes, always, always a good time when
you're here. Brian Broderson's here too. He's from Echoes of Mercy.com.
You also hear him on the Back to Basics radio
program Monday through Friday here on Kwave, and he teaches
(00:58):
on Sunday nights at Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa. What's up, Brian?
Well, good to be here. I've been, um.
What have I been doing today? Yeah, I took a
run and.
Um, been catching up on a lot of reading and researching,
getting ready to teach a course on, uh, it's my
(01:21):
5th church history course and I've kind of, you know,
started from, I actually started in the, I think it
was the 2nd century I started in, and so I'm
up to the Great Awakening.
The Great Awakening, the Second Great Awakening, what they call
the 18th century revival in Britain, which was the same
time frame, and uh looking at a few things from the,
(01:44):
the 19th century, you know, people like Spurgeon and and Moody.
So yeah, good stuff. Yeah, it's good. And where are
you gonna be teaching this? I'm gonna be teaching this
at the gathering, which is uh a series of courses
that we do uh throughout the year. I think we
do 3 or 4 different times throughout the year where
we do 6 to 8 week classes and there's like,
(02:05):
you know, 10 or 12 or 15 classes that you
can choose from. And I, I love church history, so
that's kind of my default. I just, you know, like
to jump in with those, so, yeah, so that that's
what I've been doing.
Plus I've been staying up on the rapture because I
heard it's coming up soon, so I just, in fact,
that's one of our questions that was sent in online.
(02:30):
So maybe we should just be. Yes, it's according to
Kimberly and the feast of today? Is that what it
is because they usually connect it with the feast of.
I'm not sure of that, but I know Rosh Hashanah
was just we can look that up really quick, yeah, OK.
OK, well, yeah, OK. Anyway, I didn't realize it was today.
I thought we still had a few days. Feast of
Trumpets began began last Monday, concludes at nightfall tonight. Ah, so, OK, well,
(02:52):
we got a few hours. Yes, could still happen. Kimberly
and Murrieta writes, Hi, pastors. There are some podcasts on
YouTube stating the rapture will be on September 24th. Can
you please tell me if that's your belief? I personally
believe that no one knows the day or the hour.
I'm concerned for the people listening, listening to this information.
Uh, well, yeah, you know, this, this comes around, you know,
(03:16):
fairly frequently, um, you know, sometimes it's, it's a little
bit under the radar and then other times, you know,
somebody comes out and gets very specific and so people
get concerned. I, I have a vivid memory of when
I was pastoring in the UK and uh there was
a guy who came out with a book and it
was all about the rapture taking place in May of
(03:37):
a particular year and a date and
So one of, one of the members of our church
came to me and he was really, really shaken up
by it and, you know, he wanted to talk to
me about it and wanted to know what I thought
about it and I said, well, uh, so let's just
say the date was May 5th. I said, um, I said, look,
let's get together May 6th and we'll talk about it.
(03:59):
So he just looked at me like, what does that
even mean? He said, we'll be here May 6th. Don't
worry about us. Yeah, that, that was clearly the right answer, uh, because, yeah,
the time, the time of that is unknown. I mean,
even Jesus in his earthly life claimed not not to
know that, uh, so far, far be it from us
to pinpoint specific times and dates. Exactly. So why do
(04:21):
people continue to do it?
I mean, this has been going on forever. Uh there's
always some loophole though, you know, they've always got like, well, he,
you know, he said you couldn't know the day of
the hour, but you could know the times and the
seasons and, and so then we calculate according to certain
times and seasons and stuff. And so I, you know, it's,
it's unfortunate because I, I mean, I still am one
(04:43):
who believes that there is a rapture, uh, but the
rapture's fallen on hard times, you know, people criticizing it.
Criticizing even the idea of it and I was just
saw somebody on um and and obviously they're responding to
what's happening right now, but I saw somebody on Instagram
or whatever, and, you know, they were just breaking down
all the reasons why even believing in a rapture is ridiculous,
(05:04):
and I just thought, you know, no, those those aren't good, uh,
but that's not good exegesis either, you know. So you
got the kooky.
Crazy stuff in regard to the rapture, but then you
got the other side of just, oh, this was never
even heard of in all of history until the 1800s,
(05:25):
and it was a crazy woman who came up with
the idea and, you know, all of it. I think, yeah,
it'd be helpful I think for listeners to know that the,
the passages that speak to the resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15,
that's a different event.
That then what Paul speaks to in 1 Thessalonians 4
about the believers being caught up in the air with Christ,
(05:48):
those are, those are two different events, uh, in, in, in,
in my view of the end times, uh, the, you know,
Christ returns before the millennial kingdom and the rapture occurs
prior to that seven year tribulation that will be sort
of the last, the last gasp before the Lord returns. Yeah, I,
I think so too, and, um, I, you know.
(06:09):
A lot of times now in this particular person that
I saw on on Instagram, he was saying that in
the 1st, 1st Athsonian's 4:15, um,
The Lord's, the Lord's coming, and, you know, they take
the word there and they say, oh well, that, that word.
I actually heard somebody say that word actually means like
a king, when a king is coming and people go
(06:31):
out to greet him. So, we who are alive will
be caught up and we're gonna go greet the Lord
as he comes.
Uh, kind of a thing, and I thought, you know,
basically they've taken an illustration and turned it into an interpretation.
It's like the word doesn't mean that at all. The
word simply means coming or advent or presents. It's amazing
how the text can follow our illustrations sometimes. Yeah, that's right.
(06:52):
But I've heard a lot of people saying that lately,
and it's like, OK, so they have literally taken an
illustration and just laid it on there and said this
is what it.
You know, and I, but I even heard one guy
say the Greek word actually means a king when he's
coming and his subjects go out to meet him. I thought,
That's, that's probably 11 application of that Greek word, but not,
(07:14):
but not the entirety of it. Exactly, yes, so, so anyway,
all right, Kimberly, thank you for sending in your question
through the pastor's perspective page on Kwave.com. Hopefully we've clarified that. Yeah,
and look, if, if the rapture comes tonight, it'll be good.
We will, we will rejoice. We won't be disappointed in
the least. But if it doesn't, it's good too.
(07:37):
Yes, fine. Yes. So those of you in the control
room over there, make sure the automation is in automatic
mode so that everything will keep running for people who
aren't with us, but probably not gonna happen tonight. Or
then again, you never know, but probably not. OK, uh,
so let's see, that's part of it. I mean, when
you think not, yes, yes, oh me of little faith. Yeah,
(07:59):
that's what it's gonna happen.
Here's a question sent in from Wendy in Casa Grande, Arizona,
where she listens on the Kwave app. Thank you, Wendy,
for downloading the app and for sending in your question.
She asks, is it OK for a single Christian woman
to try in vitro fertilization IVF because she desperately wants offspring.
(08:21):
So we don't know if this is Wendy speaking of
herself or maybe a friend or somebody, a sister, but, uh,
Doctor Scott Ray, professor of philosophy and Christian ethics at
the Talbot School of Theology at Byola University. Let's say you,
I take it that one's for me. Yes, yes, for sure.
We've been waiting weeks to ask you.
Well, I, I have great sympathy for people who want
(08:42):
to have children and for whatever reason either relationships or
biology has not cooperated with that so I, I sent
that longing for a child is part of our procreative
constitution that's baked into us and that's that's, that's from God.
Uh, however, the scripture is really clear that procreation is
(09:05):
to take place within the confines of permanent monogamous, heterosexual
marriage between one man and one woman.
Uh, and this, you know, and that, that's not to
put a knock on single mothers who may who may
be single, not by choice, either through divorce or they've,
they've lost their husband, uh, but the single mother by choice,
(09:27):
that's a different thing altogether, uh, and I think that
is procreation outside the bounds of marriage, which I think
the scripture, uh, the scripture looks, let's just say looks
very skeptically on.
Uh, and I think as well children it seems to
me have a right to a father and a mother,
and you know, fathers and mothers are not interchangeable. They
(09:48):
do different things. They are wired differently. They provide different
things for the well-being of a child and I think,
I think the single mother by choice is a is
a problem for the well-being of children. Now I'm sure
I'm sure Wendy's will would be a wonderful mom.
But she can't be a mom and a dad both,
and I think children are entitled if at all possible,
(10:11):
children are entitled to a mom and a dad both.
I would suggest to her that adoption would be an
option or one option she might not have thought about
uh is a little different than traditional option, but it's
embryo adoption.
Which you can you can do uh from couples who
have embryos left over from IVF they will sometimes put
them up for adoption to other people who want who
(10:33):
want to have children, mostly to other infertile couples um
but I think that that that would be a form
of adoption that I think would be would be OK, uh,
because I think adopt adopting though adopted by a single
person I would say is not ideal for the child
it's better than most of the other options that are
out there.
And so embryos that are not adopted will either stay
(10:56):
in stay frozen, which I think is unethical, uh, because
embryos are not just clumps of cells they're they're human
persons in in embryonic form. They're just, they just haven't
matured yet into fetuses and newborns and toddlers and and
so on, um.
And it gives an embryo adoption gives a woman most
(11:18):
of what she wants with with reproduction in the first place.
It gives her pregnancy gives her childbirth, gives the bonding
of the child in utero, all those are positive things.
It just doesn't give her a genetic connection, but in
the scriptures.
It seems to me what the scripture emphasizes most when
it comes to parenting and children is not so much
(11:39):
the transmission of genetics but it's the transmission of values
and spirituality that's the that's the important part, uh, and
she's quite capable of doing that even without a genetic connection.
Any thoughts, Brian?
I only, I would just say, um, and, and, you know, Scott, you,
you implied this, but I just would, I'm just thinking
(11:59):
of the, the women who might be listening who had
children out of wedlock, and we're not saying that you're
unfit to raise your kids or any of that. We're
just saying that in this particular instance with this kind
of a question, this is the way if you have
the option, yeah, if you have the option, yeah.
Now Scott, you've written several books. Is there one in
(12:22):
particular that, uh, perhaps would be a good one for
if Wendy wanted to read more on this? Yes, it's
called Outside the womb, uh, Moral Guidance for Assisted Reproduction. Ah,
there it is. It's on the, uh, biola.edu website if
you look for Doctor Scott's profile there, Scott Ray, but
you can also find it on there's I say if
you want a shorter version of this.
(12:44):
Uh, my, my book called Introducing Christian Ethics, A Short
Guide to Making Moral Choices has a whole chapter on
infertility and reproductive technology. I think I saw moral choices
over here at the chapel store. I was browsing through the, uh,
bookstore there, and I was like, God bless Scott Ray.
I know him, yeah.
And it wasn't in the bargain section or I'm glad,
you know, and, and if you come to my house, uh,
(13:06):
you could see on my bookshelf I have a couple
of Scott rate books. The big fan Moral Choices is
about to go to its 5th edition. Wow. And there's
some updates of, uh, a lot of things that are
rapidly changing in our, I, I, I heard today that, um,
what was it Singapore? No, wait, where was it?
(13:27):
It was an Asian country, Thailand, some somewhere, anyway, they
uh they've had a horrible time finding a, a good
finance minister and an honest finance minister and a capable
finance minister, so they voted in AI to be their
(13:47):
finance minister for the country. I just heard that today. Uh,
is it Albania?
Albania? No, no, it was, it was Asia. It was, I,
I thought it was from Hong Kong. Yeah, it was
in Hong Kong. It was, it was either, well, this
says here two days ago Albania introduces world's first AI minister. OK, well.
(14:08):
I don't know. Maybe the person I was listening to
had it a little confused, I guess I know it
was a chatbot finance minister. Well, we'll see what we'll
see what it can do. That'll be interesting. It's so
funny because both of my daughters are pretty, uh.
They're, they're pretty into chat GPT, you know, and so
like sometimes we're talking and then my daughter will just say, well,
(14:29):
you know, Chat said this and that, you know, I'm
listening and I'm going on I'm going, I get so
what who said what? And she said, Chat. Oh, you
mean you're talking to your the information you mean your
brother Char? No, chat. It's like they have this ongoing
relational thing with chat GBT and I'm like.
OK, now girls just be a little careful with that.
(14:52):
Maybe we pump the brakes on that just a tad,
and they do it mostly for they're, they're both in business,
so they do it mostly for like, you know, business
questions and things like that or.
So some of it has to do with what was
it my daughter was um
Oh, she bought a sling for her baby and she
wanted to know what Chad thought about it and had
all the reasons why I thought about the sling or
(15:14):
about the baby. The sling. Oh yeah, the baby in
the sling. I got a check and Chat wasn't a
big fan of Baby in the sling, really? Yeah, OK, yes, interesting.
All right, Wendy, I'd say Chat's wrong about that.
My daughter agreed that Chat was wrong on that one.
Thank you, Wendy, for sending in your question. And here's
another one that we're going to do before we go
to the phones at 888-564-6173. Matt in Orange, California, listening
(15:39):
on FM 107.9, writes, Since the biola guy is there,
that would be you, Scott. How do we argue Moses?
Moses is different than Joseph Smith. If both are the
ultimate source of what they wrote, and for both, we
lack the source copies.
Well, whether we have the
Whether we have the source copies or not is irrelevant
(16:01):
to this, because what the scripture, what the scripture claims
is inspired is the finished product, not the sources that
go into it.
Uh, but whether we have the sources or not it
has nothing to do with what, what Moses claimed for
itself and what what has been canonically recognized for centuries
(16:24):
and what Jesus recognized as authoritative, uh, and Jesus, I
think in in John 14 to 16 gave promises to
the apostles about the inspiration of the New Testament books.
Um, and to, to the best of my knowledge, none
of that applies to anything outside the canon of the
New Testament. Uh, plus, I think the
(16:46):
The material, one of the tests for whether it was
included in the canon of the of the Bible was
its consistency with previous revelation, and there's, I mean, there's
an innumerable things where uh the revelation of Joseph Smith is,
is in contrary to what uh the biblical teaching is. Yeah,
and I think too there's just the, the historical verification.
(17:09):
I mean, you know, you can, you can verify.
Stuff that Moses wrote about today. I mean, we have
archaeology for a long time for a long time, and
you cannot find the stuff that Joseph Smith and those
connected with him wrote about like some civilization here in
North America or South America, you know, the, the Israelites
(17:30):
migrating here and setting up this amazing world, and nobody's
ever been able to find a single rock, not a
shred related to it, so.
Not to mention his theological, um,
Differences, you know, with what scripture plainly says, so.
Matt, thank you for sending in your question on the
(17:51):
pastor's perspective page on Kwave.com. 888-564-6173 is the number to call.
We've got Brian Broderson and Doctor Scott Ray here to
answer your questions. And let's go up to Coos Bay, Oregon.
Here is James who's watching us on Facebook, so let's
wave to James. Hey there, thanks for calling in. What's
your question for us, James?
(18:11):
Hi, I've called in a couple of times recently. I'm,
I'm the guy that has a little bit of his
brain missing. They just took it out a little more
than 6 months ago, and I'm doing absolutely wonderful. I'm
enrolled into college. Um, I'm in a civil engineering program,
and God is good. I just want to remind everybody
that God's good and share my testimony a little bit.
And there was a young lady that called yesterday and
she seemed like she was having a really hard time.
(18:32):
And I try to remember my God's faithful. And do
you guys agree that
The reason, when I asked why before, I mean, why
can I find out what the, um,
But the purpose of this happening is, so I can
learn from it because I find that through the Bible, he,
he allows hardship and bad things to happen, only to
glorify Him.
(18:54):
And make others come to him, but there's always some
type of lesson in the things that he allows. I have,
I haven't, I, I, I, I've had some horrible things.
My son has muscular dystrophy. Like I said, I've been
dealing with seizures and other stuff for years. Um, my
dad's an ex- addict, um.
I, you know, I've gone, you know, go through the list.
(19:14):
I've had some stuff happen in my life and I
always have God. He's always there and he's always faithful
to me. So my question is, do you guys believe
that there's lessons in all of the things that he
allows us to go through and that he's a good
and faithful God.
Yes, all of the above. I'll, I'll say particularly yes
to the latter part, um, but I would, I would
nuance that first part maybe a little, a little differently.
(19:37):
Uh, because I think there are lessons, but it's not
clear to me from, from the scriptures that God allows
us to see all of those lessons this side of eternity.
I think Ecclesiastes is among other places is pretty clear that, uh, God,
God has not given us the, the, the, the box
(19:58):
top of the jigsaw puzzle to see how all the
puzzle pieces of our lives fit together into a coherent whole.
I tell my students at Talbot.
It's often like looking at the design of an oriental
rug from the underside. This side on on this side
of eternity, you could sort of faintly make it up
but there's lots of knots and loose ends and you can,
(20:18):
you know, if you look hard you can see a design,
but once you're on, on top of it.
On the other side of eternity, that design becomes intricate
and beautiful and coherent, and I, you know, I, I,
I happen to think you know I'd be interested to
see what you think about this too that if God
actually showed us how all those events of our lives
fit into a coherent whole, I suspect we might ask
(20:40):
for another option.
We might ask for Plan B. Uh, yeah. Well, I think, um,
I think the second question and the answer to the
second question, kind of, you know, in a sense, it
sort of answers the first question as well. And I
think what you're saying, Scott, what I hear you saying
is that.
Um, yes, God is working, you know, like Romans 8:28 says,
(21:02):
God is working all things together for good. We might
not understand that this side, um, we, we might, we,
I think we will understand some things, um, but I
don't think that the totality of things. I mean, there
are things in my life still, you know, I went through,
I think we've talked about this before. I went, you know,
I went through 20 years of chronic illness and um I,
(21:25):
I can see.
Especially with hindsight, I can see reasons why and what
God did through it, but I, I could have thought
of a lot of other ways for those things to happen.
I'd be living through 20 years with a chronic illness,
you know, so it's like, so I think there's, there's
still stuff that I, I don't really know, you know,
(21:47):
and I think that there is, um, I remember, uh,
you know, there was a season in my life not
too many years ago where
Uh, people would ask me, you know, how I was doing,
and I would say, well, you know, I'm kind of
in the belly of the fish, you know, I'm not
sure where I'm gonna get spit up, and I know
I'm going somewhere, but, uh, right now it's kind of
(22:09):
dark and, you know, it's, it's kind of a mystery.
That's honest, but I know God's, he's in control of
the fish.
Yeah, Solomon points out this in Ecclesiastes 3.
Ever beginning in verse 11 that he God has made
everything beautiful in his time. He said eternity in the
human heart, yet no one can fathom what God has
done from beginning to end.
(22:31):
What that means is that we, we don't, we don't get,
we don't get the big picture of how all of
the stuff in our life is together because I think
all of us will go to glory with some why questions. Yeah, yeah,
and I think especially like if we're, if we're thinking
about the future, you know, like the idea. I, I agree,
I agree 100% and I've even said this about myself,
(22:52):
you know, if, if God would have said, you know,
because there's certain key points in my life where the Lord,
you know, led me to do stuff.
But, um, and, and I feel kind of like you
have a picture of this with Paul the Apostle. So Paul,
Paul knows he's going to Rome. He has a desire
to go to Rome. He writes to the church in
Rome and says, uh, uh, you know, he that he's
(23:13):
long to come and he wants to have this mutual
exchange where they're both building one another up in the
faith and all of that, you know, so, and on
my way to Spain, I'm coming to you. So Paul
has an idea, he's going to Rome, the Lord's gonna
send him.
I'm pretty sure he had no idea how that was
gonna happen. I think he had a a totally different idea.
It was gonna be smooth sailing all the way, and
(23:35):
he does go to Rome, so he got that part right,
but he does, but none of the details were revealed
to him in advance, and I've kind of thought the
same thing in experiences in my own life, you know,
the Lord's gonna, I'm gonna do this and this and
that with you, but I'm not gonna tell you how
because
You might chicken out or you know it would it
would no longer be walking by faith. Exactly, yeah, or
(23:57):
you try to make it happen, right? You, you, OK,
got it, got the plan, God, here I go. Yeah,
which is exactly what we doesn't don't want it to do.
All right, James, thanks for your phone call today on
Pastor's Perspective. Now let's go to Carolyn, who's listening on
FM 107.9 in Louisiana, or is it Los Angeles? One
of those two, just as LA. I'm assuming Los Angeles. Hello, Carolyn. Yes.
(24:19):
Hello there. Thank you for taking my call.
I have a layman's question.
In reference to Malachi 3 and 8 and the related
scripture on tithing, can you give me
A
In depth are as much as possible understanding of that.
(24:43):
How much time do you have?
Well, we have a half hour left on the program,
but we probably don't wanna take. I'll start with this. OK,
you gotta say it right too because I grew up
in the South and it was tithe that you talked
about and uh and in in the Old Testament there
was the the tithe was probably closer to 22% as
(25:05):
opposed to 10%.
And in the in the New Testament, Brian, you may,
you may see us differently than I do, but in
the New Testament, the only things that I see that
regulate our giving is that it's to be done with
generosity and openhandedness, right, realizing that everything we have belongs
to God, but also 2 Corinthians Paul makes it clear
(25:27):
that it's not to be done under compulsion.
Nobody should feel coerced or out of guilt, but it
should be done, it should be done cheerfully, joyfully, and
that assumes, you know, entirely voluntarily. And so in my view,
I don't think that in the New Testament era, I
don't think there's a number attached to that.
(25:48):
Uh, however, at the same time, I would say for
I guess is for most of our listeners.
You could probably give a little bit more than you're
giving now.
And it would be OK. Why are you looking at me?
You would be OK because I'm applying that to you too, uh, and, and,
and you probably wouldn't feel it much financially at, at
(26:10):
the end of the day. I'd give 22% if the
government didn't take 22%. No I'm joking. The taxation and
giving are not the same thing. Let's be clear about that. OK,
give me a fist bump because you and I are
on the same page and I've said that very thing
on this program.
Dozens and dozens of times and sometimes I get push back,
(26:30):
you know, people, you know, sometimes pastors don't, they don't like,
you know, you shouldn't tell people that they don't have
to talk because and you know, OK, I get, I
get that part of it, but I think just being
honest with, with scripture, there's no, there's no New Testament
reference to it outside of the Gospels, and the gospels
are still in many ways they're still in an old
(26:51):
that's correct, that's still in the law, yeah.
And so, and Jesus, you know, mentions it, but when
you get to the teaching of the apostles, which is
the teaching for the church, uh, we're never told, like
you said, Scott, we're never told uh an amount, um,
and we're we're told to, to give generously, we're told
to give joyfully.
Uh, we're told to give, I think, faithfully.
(27:14):
I mean, the the funny thing though is when you
look at the passages, even the passages that we use
to teach on this with, the context of them is
not even exactly like, OK,
Now we're having church and here's what you do in
church to take an offering, you know, the New Testament
never tells you that, that all of the all of
(27:35):
the things that we're referring to are uh conversations that
the apostle is having with the church that had promised
to give, and he's gonna count on them.
Coming through with their promise so he can take the
gift to another church. And so then he's telling them, OK,
that that happened to be experiencing famine at the time.
(27:56):
So he's telling them this is what you do on
the first day of the week, you know, lay aside
something as each one determines in their own heart. That's right. So,
so we take that, we gather on the first day
of the week, that's Sunday, and OK, so let everybody
give as, you know, and then we, we, and to
be clear too.
You know, we're commanded to give not for God's benefit
(28:18):
but for ours, and the reason for that is because
our giving breaks the power of money in our lives.
I think that's fundamentally why we're asking to give. God,
God's kingdom can get along just fine without our without
anybody's giving, and, and we're demonstrating faith. We're we're trusting God.
We're saying, OK, I'm gonna, I'm gonna trust God for
(28:38):
what I would normally trust this amount of money for
and just trust God's gonna take care of me.
Caroline, thanks for your phone call today on Pastor's perspective.
And here's a way out there question. Have you seen
these calendars now that they, you look at them from
left to right, they go from Monday to Sunday. So
Monday is the first day of the week. So if
we're supposed to gather on the first day of the week,
(28:58):
are people gonna look at that and say, oh, now
we have to gather on Monday? Uh oh, that sounds
a little we're gonna throw everything off now. It sounds
a little anti-Christish, you know, gonna change seasons. That's right.
The new calendars, that's what they're gonna show. All right,
break time here on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is the number
to call if you've got a question for Pastor Brian
(29:21):
Broderson or Doctor Scott Ray, the professor of philosophy and
And Christian ethics at the Talbot School of Theology at
Biola University. Biola, the most comprehensively Christian university in North America.
You can find out more about them at biola.edu biola.edu. 888-564-6173.
(29:41):
Give us a call.
(30:20):
Man, I'm like getting tangled up in my headphones here.
Hate when that happens. Welcome back to Pastor's Perspective. I'm
Brian Perez here with Pastor Brian Broderson and Doctor Scott Ray,
taking your calls at 888-564-6173 for about another 25 minutes
or so. So grab an open line, 888-564-6173. You guys
ready for more questions?
(30:42):
Let's go for it. Let's do it. OK, here's Robert,
who's listening on FM 107.9 K wave in Temecula. Hey, Robert,
what's your question for us today?
Uh, yes, I was talking to a brother and we're
shopping in iron. Uh, he was telling me on the
end times that it already has, uh, arrived and it's
(31:07):
over with. And me and him has been arguing back
and forth and, well, not arguing but disgusting, and he
gave me several verses.
So I've been looking it up and trying to find
ways to let them know that the end times has
(31:27):
not came and left and so I wanted to see
if you guys have any verses to back up that
it has not came.
Well, do you know any of the verses he's using
to argue his?
Point of view? Yes, yes, uh, I'll give you a
(31:50):
couple of them. uh, Luke 2132, Matthew 24:34.
Mark 13:30.
And Daniel 124.
(32:11):
And 12 9.
Unfortunately, I couldn't do the sword drill that quickly. I
got the first one. Luke 21:32 assuredly I say to
you this generation will by no means pass away till
all things take place. And then he's probably just using the, uh,
synoptics using Matthew and Mark with a parallel passage there. Um, OK,
(32:32):
first of all, I, I think it's really simply, and
it sounds like Robert, you're, you're not, uh, persuaded by
his arguments, which, um, is good because you shouldn't be.
Because the the end times culminate with the coming of Jesus.
So I think we all can agree Jesus has not
come back yet, and especially in the way, if you
(32:53):
keep reading those passages that he's referring to, uh, all
of those passages, Matthew 24, Luke 21, Mark 13, all
of them.
Tell you about the Lord's return, that's kind of the
main point there. Um, secondly, the passage that, uh, he's
(33:14):
referring to this generation will not pass until all these
things are fulfilled. I think the mistake is to think
that he's referring to the generation that he's talking to
versus the generation that sees the things that he says
are going to happen.
So when he says this generation, I think he's talking
about the, he's he's describing all the stuff that's gonna
(33:36):
go on and then he says this generation. So he's
talking about the people that that are living at the time.
So that would be either us or people out in
the future from us. Yeah, just one thing to add
to that, uh, the, the Bible, I think is pretty
clear that when the Lord returns, we're gonna know he
will come. Well, he will, he will he will his
kingdom will come in its fullness.
(33:56):
And what that, what that means that the world's gonna
look a lot different when the kingdom comes in its
fullness than it does today because sin and corruption will be,
will be no more. I mean every knee will bow
at the name of Christ, uh, you know, we'll have
a properly ordered society where God's righteousness will rule. Uh,
(34:16):
I mean doesn't take a lot of imagination to see
that that's, that's a big difference than what we have today.
Big difference, yes.
Robert, does this help you?
Uh, a little bit, uh, same, same thought pattern as me, but, uh,
I wanted to get some verses to.
(34:41):
Explain why it has not returned yet.
Well, because I've been looking it up as well and
I'm having a little trouble finding. OK, but what's, what's
his evidence that Jesus does he think Jesus has returned?
Yes, he believes that Jesus has already returned and the
(35:03):
end times have came, and he's talking about the generation
was back then on that generation. Is he a preterist?
Does he think Jesus came back in '7080 or?
He used to be a Mormon and he is a
Christian now, but uh he has some questions, so there's
(35:25):
times that we discuss things, you know, like one that
we're still talking about is free will as well, but
it's just we go back and forth on conversations but
I'm having a little difficult uh finding verses to um.
Well, I, you know, I, I, I think Robert, um,
(35:48):
like the very passages that you're referring to, if you
just read, read them in their entirety, not just the,
the one section that he's talking about, and I think
it will, I, I mean, it has to, I know
there are some people who try to argue that Jesus
has already come back and he's already ruling and so forth,
but I, I think it's just so blatantly obvious that
(36:10):
that isn't the case and
When you look at the passages Matthew 24 or Mark
13 or Luke 21, just read them in their entirety
then just simply ask yourself a question. Has this happened yet?
And if Jesus's words mean anything, if words mean what
they purport to mean, then you're gonna have to say, no,
(36:34):
this did not happen, this never happened, this has not happened.
Jesus says that these days are gonna be so intense,
no one would be left alive unless the Lord has
shortened the days. So, there's lots of people, there's 8
billion people on the planet, so that certainly hasn't happened.
So I think if you just read the text yourself,
you're gonna find that your friend has come under the
(36:57):
um influence of some teaching that just is not biblical.
Robert, thank you for your phone call today here on
Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is our number. And, uh, let's read
a question that was sent in online. This one is
from Wendy, who writes, Hello, pastors, I have a dilemma
here in my household. I live with my mom and
(37:19):
my two grown adult daughters. Me and my mom are Christian.
My daughters are still trying to discover what they believe in.
My one daughter loves costumes and dressing up from Disneyland
to Halloween to Christmas, all different types all year long.
She just has fun with it. Every year she decorates
the inside of the house for the Halloween, Thanksgiving, and
(37:40):
Christmas holidays. She puts up friendly ghosts and googly eyes
and spiders here and there. She just has fun. This year,
she did a Halloween-themed Christmas tree. Then she'll take it down,
or then she'll take down the decorations and put up
Christmas decorations after Halloween.
Here's the dilemma. Um, Wendy says, My daughter feels my
(38:00):
mom is being very judgmental, singing gospel music loudly, walking
around the house trying to annoy my daughter because my
mom does not like the Halloween decorations. She constantly repeats
to everyone, I do not celebrate Halloween. This is not
typical behavior for my mom to walk around singing gospel
music very loudly. This is new this year.
(38:23):
How do I keep the peace between my mom and
my daughter regarding this issue? Scott, sounds like she needs
a marital the marriage and family therapist, OK, uh, or
at least a very skilled pastor, uh, involved in this,
you know, I, you know, and I think there's room
for legitimate debate about Halloween, um, you know, I think
(38:45):
as long as long as our kids are clear that,
you know, there is, there is a spirit world.
You know that there is a.
There there's more than just the physical world and our
physical bodies. There is, there's a spiritual realm, um.
And, and I think just to be careful that you're not,
(39:06):
you know, that you're not overly engaged with the spiritual world.
I mean, I remember, uh, CS Lewis in the screw
tape letters wrote that you can make, you can make
one of two errors about, about demons and devils. One
is to deny their existence and one is to give
them too much importance.
Um, and I think, I think he was right about that,
and it seems to me that, you know, Halloween, you know,
(39:29):
for most families, I think is a case what I
would call no harm, no foul, and it's, you know,
I think as long as our kids, you know, they,
if they know that, you know, so this, you know, this,
this stuff is real.
Uh, but, but it's nothing to be afraid of. Uh, I, I, I,
I don't have a problem with that, you know, maybe
decorating a a Christmas tree with Halloween decorations, that's maybe that's,
(39:50):
that's a little over the line. I probably wouldn't, I
probably wouldn't go for that in my house, uh, and
I think, you know, may maybe mom and daughter can
compromise on that one, but you know, other than that, I,
I think I, you know.
I, I'd probably tell mom to loosen, lighten up a
(40:10):
little bit, and for the daughter to maybe scratch the
Christmas tree.
Yeah, I, you know, I think most people
Um, I think Halloween is just purely a cultural thing.
Most kids think of it as I'm gonna get a
bunch of free candy, and I'm going to the dentist. Yeah, yeah,
the parents are thinking that the kids are thinking, um,
(40:33):
and I know I said I said this many times
and I would, some people got really upset at me, but, um,
the biggest, um.
Kind of uh supporter of Halloween in our family was
my father-in-law, Pastor Chuck, uh, in the sense that he
loved taking my kids trick or treating, so he would,
(40:55):
he would, I think he came down, it just seems
like he was always there on Halloween and he was
always taking the kids out, you know, Cheryl would get
them dressed up and then he would take them to
the neighborhood and, uh, you know, he just loved it.
He delighted in being.
Uh, with, with his kids and that, and, you know,
there was never a moment where he said, oh, no,
we can't do this because, you know, this is, uh,
(41:17):
so sure, there are some people, there's some weird people
in the culture that, uh, you know, they latch on
to the ancient spiritual aspects of it and wanna do
something with that, but the majority of people do not.
And I think, I think when Christians make too big
of a deal of it, we almost look like, what
(41:39):
in the world are those Christians talking about?
Yeah, I think it may be a little bit like
you may disagree with me on this, but it may
be a little bit like the families that didn't read
the Harry Potter books. Yes, yes, a very, very, very
and we, you know, we read all our kids love
those things, and saw the movies and uh.
You know, and I actually, you know, delighted to support
(42:00):
JK Rowling, yeah, because she's stands for a lot of
the right things. Yeah, and she's in a faith journey
right now, which is so interesting, yeah, yeah, I've been
thinking about her because I follow her, and I've been,
she's talking, you know, as you probably know, Scott, she's
talking about kind of just wondering about faith and I'm thinking,
I'm thinking about people I know in the UK who
(42:21):
are um.
Who are influential enough that they could they could cross
her path and I'm just praying like Lord, connect with
those people, you know, that would be so cool. But
I wanted to say something because I just, it just
reminded me when I, when you were talking, Scott, I
listened to you and Sean and your conversation with Clint Arnold,
(42:45):
and I loved it. Yeah, it was so good and
The funny thing is I have Clint's book and I
got it back. I must have got it back when
it first came out. I know. And when, when you
guys said it was '92, I think it was published,
I was like, holy smokes, I think it was from 1992.
So you know, I wrote a book on spiritual warfare
and I'm, I'm kind of doing a little bit of
an update on it before we reprint and I'm using
(43:08):
some stuff from Clint's book. He's got some great stuff
in there, so yeah, thank you for mentioning our think
biblically think biblically. I love think biblically.
Is this the podcast here, Spiritual warfare and the powers
of darkness. Yeah, so Clint, that sounds very much like
the title of your book. The book is called The
Power of the Powers of Darkness. Minus the powers of
Darkness and the people of God, but I, I forgot
(43:30):
that was the title of his book, so it wasn't
like I was ripping him off, you know, I was just, uh.
Now I think he's probably, you know, of all the
New Testament scholars I know out there, he's probably done
the best work in this area. You know, he is
such a great guy. He's one of the humblest people
I've ever met in my life. And you know what
I've been, I've been using his, um, his sort of pictorial, uh,
(43:53):
journey through acts. That thing is fantastic. He did such
a great job on that because I love all the,
you know, he's got all the archaeology stuff in there
and he's got the maps and everything and I just.
I just love looking at all that stuff when I'm
when I'm thinking about Paul's journeys, and yeah, it's so good.
All right, check that out. It's the Think Biblically podcast,
(44:13):
and this episode titled Spiritual Warfare and the Powers of Darkness.
And speaking of Paul's journeys, Sunday nights.
Back to basics Live Acts chapter 19. We are going
to Ephesus. So come and join us if you want
a Bible study at 6:30, Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa in
the fellowship hall. Nobody does Bible studies on Sunday nights anymore.
(44:37):
I know. I'm bringing it back, yay, you know, bringing
it back to basics. Back to basics live, yes. Nice. OK, Wendy, oh,
and really quick just on Wendy's question.
Um, and Scott, you mentioned that maybe there should be
a therapist involved in this situation with his family, but
um that was partly in, yeah, that, that's why I
wanted to, to kind of go back to that. So,
(44:59):
you know, Wendy says that her mom is just going
around the house singing gospel music. I don't know if
she's doing it because she's seeing these decorations of spiders
and whatnot all over the house, and she's singing the
music extra loud just to uh
Word off spirits or something, I don't know, but how
would you address that?
I'd say pray, pray quietly instead of sing loudly.
(45:23):
Maybe talk to Grandma, say, you know, mom, maybe, maybe,
maybe just relax a little bit with this. Hey, uh,
I got a text from our, our mutual friend and
Scott's boss.
Uh, Doctor Ed Stetzer.
He says that our he want me to give the
phone number out more? No, he says our Facebook stream
(45:43):
is going in and out. What? So what's going on here?
I don't know. Facebook people, take a look at that. Yeah,
thank you. Thank you, Ed, for letting us know about that.
All right, here's another question that was sent in online,
by the way.
Uh, 888-564-6173. That'll make Ed proud if he hears me
give him the phone number, cause that's his job when
he's here on the program. But since, uh, since I'm
(46:05):
here today, I gotta do it. 888-564-6173. Alex in West
Hollywood writes, I have been single, introvert, and shy for decades,
and my prayer requests go unanswered. I took a chance
three years ago with someone from church, and she dumped
me for a guy 170 miles away.
They're still in a long distance relationship, and I still
(46:27):
feel bitter. I do not have the gift of celibacy,
so why does God let me burn? Doesn't the word
say it's not good for man to be alone? I
cannot go on like this. Scott, what do you say
to Alex? Well, it's not good for, I think what
what they meant in Genesis 1 and 2 is it's
not good for mankind.
(46:48):
To be alone, uh, and it was, you know, marriage
was one of the ways that God had in mind
to remedy that. The other one was the crea was
as they procreate the creation of a community to, to
remedy that. So marriage was never designed to, to, to
be the the the answer you know, completely and by
(47:09):
itself to our aloneness. That's putting way too much pressure
on another person and I think you actually run the
risk of idolatry, uh, with that other person.
Uh, and the Bible affirms singleness as, you know, a
good thing. Um, now you may not see it that way,
and I, I was a singles pastor for about 5
years before joining the Talbot faculty, and a lot of
(47:31):
my single adults did not really, they saw it more
as a curse instead of a gift, uh, but I
think the Bible affirms singleness as a good thing, uh,
and in some and in some, in some instances, uh.
It's more expedient than marriage, uh, so, um, I think
in the, the passages we're we're speaking to is in
(47:53):
1 Corinthians 7:9 we, we're speaking to married couples who
are for a variety of reasons are denying normal sexual
relations between husband and wife, and that the admonition was for.
You know, for husband and wife to engage in regular
sexual relations so that neither of them burn with passion
and therefore be tempted to satisfy those desires outside the
(48:13):
boundaries of marriage. That's the that's the point that Paul
was making there. So I don't, I, it was that
passage was not intended for unmarried adults, uh, or I
think it, it, I think it was all it was
intended for people who were.
Uh, in a relationship and maybe questioning, do we marry.
(48:38):
Is that more spiritual or do we stay single? And
so Paul says, he says, if you marry, you don't sin.
You know, this is, this is not a sin issue. um,
but I think too, Scott, and I think you would
agree with me on this. I think that for, for
a long time, maybe we, we did.
Not intentionally, but we sort of, uh, elevated marriage to
(49:01):
the point that that we made single people feel like, unintentionally, completely,
but we made them sort of feel like, you know,
if I'm gonna be a full person and a full Christian,
I need to get married. And yet there's so much
in scripture in that passage, you know, of course, in
1 Corinthians 7, Paul's talking about the virtues of singleness,
(49:22):
like you, there's a lot of benefits to being single.
But it, but it's in relation to serving Christ. And
so I have some wonderful friends who have been single
their whole lives and that's just.
And you know, they're they're part of the church, they're
part of the ministry, and I don't think they ever
feel like, oh, I'm missing out, you know, they've got
(49:44):
great fellowship, they've got lots of deep friendships, um, but
I would say to our our uh questionnaire there also,
you know, when you're talking about burning, are you
Are you doing something to sort of intensify that level
of desire sometimes, you know, people getting into pornography and
(50:06):
things like that, that's gonna exacerbate the problem. So you
wanna be, you want to get away from that stuff
and focus on, you know, the things of the spirit.
I think Brian, to your point about marriage too, I
think in the culture in general, I think we've, we've
oversold sex and what it can provide, but I think
in many of our churches we've oversold marriage.
(50:26):
Too, and what it can provide because you know, in
my view marriage is the union of two basically miserable wretched,
self-centered sinners who are trying to tell us how you
really feel who are trying to make a goal of it, um,
and you know marriage is not a destination.
You know, it's finding a traveling partner.
And I found, you know, my, you know, I found
(50:47):
a lot, lots of people have said, you know, marriage
is the tool that God has used to sort of
chip away at the rough edges of our character, uh, and,
you know, sometimes painfully so.
So I think I, you know, I think there's, there's,
you know, there's a lot, a lot of place in
scripture that that gives.
Um, what I wanna call affirmation to people who to,
(51:10):
who are who are single, either, either by choice or not, yeah, and, and,
and rather than sitting around sort of lamenting singleness, get
into what does God want to do with my life, right?
You know, because when you're in God's will and you're
doing the thing that the Lord has created you for and.
(51:30):
And fashioned you for, that's where fulfillment comes. That's where
you're like, OK. And then, you know, if there is,
I mean, I think
You know, if there is this this deep desire to marry,
you know, maybe
Maybe God will bring somebody along, but you know, I
think of people like John Stott, you know, John Stott,
(51:50):
who was a great, um, evangelical leader in Britain for
many years, and he chose a single life, not because
he didn't desire marriage. There was a season in his
life where he actually had a woman that he thought
he might marry, but they both concluded that they were
called to live singly for the glory of God. Yeah,
and I think if, you know, the question we have
(52:11):
to be asking is can, you know, can I serve
the kingdom better.
Married this person as opposed to being single. That's the question, yeah. Alex,
thank you for sending in your question on the Kwave.com
pastor's perspective page, or maybe you scanned the QR code
on Facebook, YouTube, or Instagram because we've got one of
those QR codes there. If you scan it, it takes
(52:32):
you right to that pastor's perspective page on Kwave.com. Heather
in Huntington Beach, welcome to Pastor's Perspective. Thanks for calling 888-564-6173.
Hi, can you hear me OK?
OK. Hi, um,
My sister is going through an issue with her, uh, new,
(52:52):
new Christian husband. He's, he's now become, he's going to a,
a Calvary Chapel. And he's, uh, he, he's made her
get rid of, um, she just brought all these boxes
of rocks and, and her, she's collected rocks and crystals
throughout the years and, and some books on gardening, herbs
and stuff, and hikers thing. And, uh, and I guess
it's the, there's somebody at their church that he goes
(53:14):
to a Bible study with, and they said that it
was a gal that said,
You have a gargoyle in your house or something. I
feel like there's a gargoyle in your house or something
to that effect. And he came home and looked at
this green man little statue thing that she had out
in the yard. It's not a gargoyle by any means,
but he made. Is it a gnome? Because there's a
difference between a garden gnome and a gargoyle, I would say. No, there's,
(53:34):
it's not a gnome. It's a green man. It's called
a green man and it's just a, it looks like
a son. It's about like, um, it's a smiling son.
It's is what it is. And so he, the problem
is she, she, she uh emailed.
Pastor and, and asked him, you know, my gardening books
and stuff. And, and I mean, these are two like he,
she couldn't even keep, she was able to keep a
(53:55):
rock that my grandpa painted on for us, you know,
when we were kids and stuff. But, um, the pastor said, yes,
all that stuff has to go. And she's like, my
rings are diamonds. Is that a rock too? I mean, everything,
and it's like, like it's way crazy. And so I'm wondering,
he's a new Christian. I'm wondering if that's false prophecy
from the gal and if so, why would this cowry?
We're really confused and really concerned for her because, well, listen.
(54:17):
And the thing is, her, her daughter, I'm sorry, her
daughter is and they're trying to, he's trying to bring
the whole family to Christianity, and he is pushing them
away so hard. Well, this sounds like a classic case of, um,
zeal without knowledge, you know, he's apparently a young Christian
and now he's all excited and now, you know, he
wants to make sure that everything is purified and and
(54:38):
all of that, but he's going way, way overboard. The,
the unfortunate thing is the pastor's encouraging that. So this
is where
Uh, I don't know what Calvary Chapel that is, but
you can just rest assured that this is not like
a doctrine of Calvary Chapel, that just happens to be
apparently this, this pastor. So, um, yeah, this is, um,
(54:59):
this is just, you know, he's gone, gone overboard in
his zeal, and hopefully, uh, he will get things balanced out.
Uh, your sister, you can assure your sister that there's,
there's nobody who is mature in the faith who's going
to be recommending any of this kind of behavior.
What do you think? I, I completely agree. I think
(55:22):
this is going way overboard, and I would not, you know,
I would not, uh, get rid of your gardening books
and your gardening tools and all that kind of stuff
and garden gnomes and all that. Although this creepy thing,
I mean, it's creepy looking, but I wouldn't say it's
come on, that's a smiling sun. What's so creepy about it?
But it's green. Looks like, oh, I don't know, might
be evil. No, I don't know. All right, uh, thanks
(55:45):
for trying this question. He's gonna.
Tell you to get rid of you throw them all away. No,
I'm joking. All right, thanks you guys for joining us
today on Pastor's Perspective. We'll do it again tomorrow between
3 and 4. Doctor Scott Ray, thanks for coming in, sir. Oh,
God bless you guys.
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