September 30, 2025 • 56 mins
Pastors' Perspective is a one-hour call-in program where listeners can call in and get answers to questions about the Bible, Christianity, family, and life. The program is live Monday through Friday from 3:00 PM - 4:00 PM Pacific. You can call 888-564-6173 to ask your questions.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez,
and we are here in the studio on this Tuesday
afternoon to answer the questions you have about the Bible,
the Christian faith, theology, doctrine, whatever you want to talk about.
888-564-6173 is our number. Grab an open line. The sooner
(00:38):
you call in, the better.
a chance you'll get on. If you're watching us on Facebook, YouTube,
or Instagram. Now some of you are saying, wait a minute,
you guys are on Facebook, YouTube and Instagram? Yeah, we
live stream, uh, the program, and you can watch us there. Uh,
I don't know why you'd want to watch us. We
don't offer graphics or animation or anything. It's just for,
I guess so, you know, 2 or 3 people talking
(00:58):
in the studio and yeah, you're welcome to.
Watch us if you want. Um, you can chat there
if you want. Keep it kind, keep it civil. If
you've got a question, give us a call though, 888-564-6173.
And the voice you just heard, that is Thad Williams.
He is an associate professor of theology at the Talbot
(01:18):
School of Theology at Viola University.
Uh, how's it going, Dad?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
It's going great. It's been a while. Yeah, it's been
a couple of months. I've been to Australia, I think Japan,
all kinds of crazy stuff since I've been here last,
but yeah, doing the Lord's work.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yeah, that's awesome. Great to have you back here. Uh,
Tommy Coda will be joining us in just a little bit,
so we'll get some questions answered in the meantime. What
do you say we get started with a question that
was sent in online?
Cause there are other ways that you can get your
question to us. If you can't call in when we're
here in the studio, you can go to our flagship
radio station's website, Kwave.com, and look for the pastor's perspective page.
(01:56):
And, uh, there's a form there that you can fill
out that gets your question to us, or go to
the pastor's perspective Facebook page and send us a message
on Messenger or DM us on the pastor's perspective, Instagram.
Wait one more. If you're watching on Facebook, YouTube, or Instagram,
you can scan that QR code, and that'll take you
right to the pastors.
(02:17):
perspective page on Kwave.com, which is how Lisa from Riverside
sent in her question. Lisa asks, Are we rewarded in
heaven for the injustices we face on earth? Christians face
so much opposition in this world for their faith, but
what about when we are Christians who happen to be
(02:37):
suffering but not suffering because we're Christians? Are we still
rewarded for that suffering? What do you say that?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah, I would say, uh, where we start biblically is
with the fact that God is sovereign over every square
inch of reality. Uh, you see Jesus make the claim
in the Gospels that not a dove falls to the
ground apart from the heavenly Father's will. And so there's
(03:06):
a sense that of all the suffering in the cosmos
ever since Genesis 3.
That even a bird dropping dead is not something that
takes God by surprise, it's very much within his sovereign will. Now,
far more profound than than the death of a sparrow, uh,
or a bird is the death of the Son of God.
(03:27):
And when we read John chapter 4, there's a clear affirmation.
That when Jesus was executed, the way Luke narrates the
early church's prayer in Acts chapter 4, he says they,
Christ's executioners did what your will and your hand predetermined
to happen. The will of God, that's Greek, it's boule tautheo,
(03:51):
hand of God chier tautheo. This is the language that
God is in charge, and where was God when Jesus
was executed?
Right where he's always been on the throne of the universe,
ruling everything. Where is God when harm befalls us, right
where he's always been on the throne. And so I'm
convinced based on scripture that there's no such thing in
(04:13):
a biblical worldview as wasted pain. There's no such thing
in a biblical worldview as superfluous suffering. All of it
will be redeemed for the glory of God and for
our good.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Even the stuff that like we're suffering for because of
something we did, not necessarily something that was done to us.
So like, Lisa's question, yeah, well, we're gonna get rewarded
for being persecuted, uh, her question, what if we're just
suffering for the for suffering's sake, you could say, but
when we inflict it upon ourselves, when the suffering is
(04:45):
because of something we did.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah, so I, I would say getting down to the minutiae,
it was RC Sproll who said, you know, there's not
a maverick molecule in the universe. I'm convinced in the
new heavens and the new earth, you will be able
to look back and see, oh, that time I stubbed
my toe, God was glorified in that. Now, when it
comes to self-inflicted suffering, I think here we point to
(05:08):
the cross of Jesus, that if it's self-inflicted through our
sin and stupidity,
Jesus bears the full brunt of that, so even all
of that is redeemed. I don't think there's, there's, again,
a single ounce of pain or suffering we could endure,
whether it's at our own hands or at the hands
of someone else or at the hands of a natural disaster,
(05:30):
there's no such thing as senseless suffering in God's universe.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
All right, Lisa, I hope that answers your question. Thank
you for sending it in through the pastor's perspective page
on Kwave.com. And here's one that was sent in on
the pastor's perspective Facebook page through Messenger. It's from Daniel
in Santa Maria, California, who writes, My question today is
regarding curses.
I'm not very educated in this matter, so bear with me.
(05:57):
For many years I've had unfortunate circumstances which push me
away from people. I have no communication with my family
besides one sister and have no partner due to intolerable
behaviors that are toxic.
I have felt alone for many years and question if
this is a curse I need to break. If so,
how so? How can I tell? My next question regarding
(06:19):
curses is in regards to finances and power. It seems
that I have a hard time maneuvering and sustaining money.
For years,
I have had money, then lost it. I've never been
able to have a home or even an apartment. Even
keeping up is a struggle. Is this also a curse,
or is it just a matter of my character and choices?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah, awesome, awesome question, Daniel. I'm so glad you reached
out with this. Uh, first off, my heart goes out
to you. It sounds like you've endured.
Um, some pretty serious suffering, pain, and loneliness, and I
think that's a theme that 99.9% of our listeners can
relate to. Uh, you're far from alone. Uh, now, is
(07:01):
it a curse? I would say, um, thinking scripturally about this.
Look at the opening of the Bible. God says, at
the end of every creation day, he says, it's good,
it's good, it's good. In in Hebrew, this word tov,
it's beautiful, it's blessed, it's good.
And then on day 5 of creation, you get the
(07:24):
first malediction in the Bible or uh I take that back,
day 6, where God says it's not good. What's not
good in God's good creation? It's not good for man
to be alone.
And we see why by the time we flip to
John one and compare it with Genesis one, they start
(07:46):
the same way. Genesis 1:1, in the beginning, God created
the heavens and the earth. John 1:1, in the beginning
was the word, Jesus, the Lagos. That word is with God,
that word is God, and by the time you get through.
Uh, John one, you see that this is a father-son
bond within the Trinity. Father has always loved son. Son
(08:09):
has always loved Father, Spirit has always loved father and son,
and so God is as a Trinity, he is connection.
He is community, he is family, he is relationship, and
that sheds light on way back in Genesis 1 and
Genesis 2, why it's not good for us to be alone.
We are created by a god, a triune God of
(08:31):
community for community. And this is one of several fascinating
examples where the science is catching up to the scriptures.
In the scriptures, uh, we see that we're created for
relationship by God of relationship. Well, there was a recent
study by Robert Putnam out of out of Harvard University,
where he found that if you're disconnected, and Daniel, it
(08:53):
sounds like you're in a pretty lonely place, if you
step out of your comfort zone to get connected in
the next year.
According to Putnam's study, you cut your chances of dying
in half. We were created by a god of community
for community. The same study found, this is just fascinating stuff,
that people who, uh, have poor lifestyle habits, you know,
(09:17):
they might down a bucket of Big Macs or KFC
every night or, you know, they smoke a carton of
marbles or whatever it might be, but they're relationally connected.
Will actually outlive people who have healthy lifestyle habits. They exercise,
they eat right, um, but are disconnected. Now, now the
(09:37):
moral of that study is not go, you know, smoke
a carton of marbles with your friends. Yeah, the the
moral of the story is get yourself connected. And so
that would be my encouragement to Daniel and all the
folks out there who are feeling.
Um, that sting of the curse in Genesis 3. Part
of what happens at the fall is that our createdness
(10:00):
for connection, there's a huge rift where we get severed
from our connection with God, we get severed from our
connection to each other, we get severed.
From our connection to ourselves and so God has sent
this rescue mission through Jesus to bring us back into
community with ourselves, with each other and with the Father.
And so I would encourage this real down to earth, Daniel, um, please,
(10:23):
please hear me. Find yourself a good solid, Bible believing
church where you can be seen.
Where you can be known, where you can serve, where
you can be loved. That's God's plan A for bringing
us out of the curse of the fall.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Before we get to um Daniel's other question about curses, uh,
let's talk about being alone for a while. So in Genesis,
Uh, it is not good for man to be alone,
and then Eve comes into the picture, right? So a
lot of people take that verse to say, oh, so
this means that they're like, there's a man for, there's
a man and a woman for each other out there.
(11:01):
There's like a, you know, but yet some people remain
single all their life or part of their life. So
not being alone is, it's not necessarily a male-female relationship,
Speaker 2 (11:11):
would you say? Yeah, so, so going back to creation
day 6.
Well, after God gives all these benedictions, it's good, it's good,
it's good, it's good. Then he gives the malediction, it's
not good. His first bad word he speaks about creation.
It's not good for man to be alone. Then he
creates woman, he creates female, and now you have this
(11:31):
beautiful distinction between male and female, and it's only on
that day that God doesn't just say it's good, he
says it's very good. And so there is something.
Very good, exceedingly good is how some translations render it.
And so the idea that male and female distinctions are
an exceedingly good, beautiful thing, that's right there in the text.
(11:53):
But what about somebody who says, well, that sounds great,
but I'm single. Well, there's somebody else who's single, who's
the most fully human human to ever exist, and that's Jesus.
And so don't think if you find yourself, um, isolated from, say,
a romantic relationship, that therefore you're doomed to, um, isolation
(12:15):
and alienation and misery for the rest of your life.
And that goes again back to the power of church. Um,
and I think many of our churches could step up
their game there in terms of being a place where
it's not just for the male, female, married unit.
Uh, but where single folks can find true friendship, true love,
romantic love, Eros in, in the Greek is not the
(12:37):
only way that it, that we need to be connected, um,
in order to enjoy what it fully means to be
an image bearer
of God.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
All right, so Daniel's other question about curses was just
in terms of money and finances and things of that nature.
Daniel thinks he's got a curse on him or something
because
He can't hold on to money even in times when
he did have money, he lost it. We don't know
how he lost it, but he did. And, um,
Speaker 2 (13:05):
so speaking to one of the things we want to
be careful of is there's a tendency in certain strands
of Christianity where there's sort of a
A demon behind every bush. There's, there's a demon behind
every stubbed toe, um, every time your, your team loses, um,
you know, there's something satanic, there's something sinister and demonic
(13:26):
about it. And I would just say instead of rushing to,
is there some curse that's causing me financial hardship, maybe
there's a much more straightforward explanation for what's going on.
Uh, I would recommend check out, I know Dave Ramsey
can at times be controversial, but he's got really, really
helpful stuff on how to make money, how to hold
(13:49):
on to money. Uh, he walks through a handful of
steps where, you know, have a $1000 cushion.
A $1000 sort of emergency fund and then how to
start saving up so that you can create uh long-term wealth.
I know Crown Financial, they've been around a long time.
They have stellar resources on how to help Daniel and
(14:10):
many more folks out there figure out how do I
actually manage my money, um, to the glory of God.
So I would say instead of resorting to, oh, there's
some supernatural curse, maybe just take some of the biblical
wisdom on how to best manage our money.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Daniel, thank you for sending in your questions on the
pastor's perspective Facebook messenger. 888-564-6173 is the number to call
us today. That voice you hear is Thad Williams. He's
an associate professor of theology at the Talbot School of
Theology at Biola University, and he's taking your calls until
(14:46):
4 p.m. today, Tuesday, 888-564-6173,888-564.
6173. Here's another question this one sent in online on
the pastor's perspective page at kwave.com. And Yvette from Santa
Ana writes, I'd rather just have my question answered without
(15:07):
me talking on the radio. No, Yvette, we'd rather talk
to you.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
We're so intimidating. Yes, we're not. Call in people. We
love you. Yes,
Speaker 1 (15:14):
yes,
but, uh, so here's Yvette's question. If we are all
one body in Jesus Christ.
And are to be like-minded in truth taught by the
Holy Spirit. Then why are there different views on baptism, revelation,
the Trinity, and so on? Doesn't every Christian have the
same Holy Spirit?
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Yeah, such, such a great question. What is it? Yvette? Yes,
I get that right, Yvette, yeah, really great question. I
go back here to the great church father, the great
African bishop, pastor, theologian, one of my personal heroes, and
that is Augustine.
Uh, Augustine
Uh, just, it, it's a fascinating backstory how he got saved.
(15:55):
I just want to give you the 32nd version. Here
he is sort of this rock star speaker. He travels around,
he goes on tours, he's got all these groupies, and
he's living a life of just full blown sexual sin. Uh,
he's got all the fame anybody could ever ask for.
And one day in an orchard of pear trees, he
has this total existential crisis, a total breakdown where he
(16:18):
realizes that he's utterly empty inside.
And so as he's bawling his eyes out, he hears
a little kid singing in the distance, and the little
kid's song was Take it and read, take it and read,
which wasn't like Wheels on the Bus Go Round and
round or, you know, Mary had a little lamb, like, what,
what song is that? That he had never heard that
as a children's song. He took that as a divine sign.
(16:41):
To wipe his tears, stand up, rush home and find
the first Bible he could and open it up. That's
exactly what it is. He did. He opens it to, uh,
1 Corinthians 6 about repenting of sexual immorality. He gets
radically saved, goes on to be one of the greatest
minds in church history. So in his day, there were
(17:02):
heated disputes, you know, Augustine debated a group called the Pelagians,
the Donatists. There were several controversies.
And he came down with this credo that I think
has a lot of wisdom.
He said in essentials, unity.
In non-essentials, liberty, and in all things, charity or love.
(17:26):
And I think that that's our watchword here as we
sift through, there's very real differences that good spirit indwelts
believers have over questions like how is the world gonna end?
Is Jesus gonna come back before the rapture, after the rapture?
Is there gonna be 1000 year millennium after the return
of Jesus? All these in-house questions that we can look
(17:48):
at each other and say, Hey, you're my brother in Christ.
We call the same Godfather. We're redeemed by the same Jesus.
We're inhabited by the same Holy Spirit, so we need
to be careful to have liberty in non-essentials. And so
I think that the questioner also raised views of baptism.
Uh, Augustine had a view of baptism that I don't
(18:09):
agree with, um, baptismal regeneration. Uh, many hold to, uh,
baby baptism or what's called Pao baptism. You find Presbyterians
advancing that view.
Then there's adult believers baptism that you'll find in places
like Calvary Chapel, where I got baptized, uh, and in
the Baptist churches. Now, again, here's one of those in non-essentials,
(18:30):
liberty and in all things charity. We love each other
even though we have different views on how baptism should
be played out in the life of the church, but
that's nothing to draw a hard line and say, if
you disagree with me on this, you know, you're anathema,
you're excommunicated, you're a heretic or anything like that.
But then the questioner, Yvette, I, I'm glad one of
(18:53):
the examples you raised was the Trinity.
Because this is one of those areas that I would
say falls into the first clause of Augustine Augustine's statement,
in essentials unity. We gotta get God right. We gotta
get who God is and who God has revealed himself
to be right, or we have stepped out of bounds
(19:14):
of the historic Christian faith. So example, I think it
was about 30 years ago now, very famous televangelist.
Uh, made the claim that he had received some special
revelation that God is not a trinity. God is 9
persons in in one B. There, there's a nanity, not
(19:34):
a trinity. And at the time, um, several.
Church leaders, pastors, theologians stood up and said, Hey man,
that's out of bounds, because now you have changed the
very being of God and what scripture clearly affirms in
Matthew 28. You are baptized in the name, singular of Holpatros.
(19:57):
Ios, Caihonumo Aio in the name of, and then it
lists 3 persons, not 9 persons, the Father, Son, and
Holy Spirit. And so we need to keep the essentials essential.
There's one God, one God exists as 3 inner loving persons, Father, Son,
and spirit. Jesus, the second person of the Trinity, became
(20:17):
the godman, the theanthropos, fully human, fully divine.
The godman died as our great substitute on the cross.
He rose bodily, not as a phantom, not as a spirit,
not as a ghost. He rose physically in real time
space history, so that we are saved, not through our performance,
our religiosity, our rule keeping, we're saved as an utterly
(20:39):
free gift from a gracious God, and that same Jesus
is coming back. That's essential Christianity 101.
And so we want to be clear that we can
agree on that, celebrate those glorious truths, disagree about things
like baptism, disagree about things like end times, chronology, how
all that's gonna pan out, but in all of it,
(21:01):
have charity and love for each other.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
I'm still trying to get past the 9 names, so the,
the 9, I mean, no, I, I don't think I
ever heard that. How did they come up with 9?
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Uh, I, I don't know. It'd be father, son, Holy Spirit, uncle, CEO, boss, friend. I, it,
it's based off a mistranslation of a passage. It was
Benny Hinn who said it years ago. Um, Benny Hinnine
Parts to the Trinity, you can look that up. Um,
I think it's based off a mistranslation of a passage
in Revelation, OK, where there's seven spirits of God.
(21:36):
And so, I think, if I'm not mistaken, he said, father, son,
and then there's 7 spirits equals 9.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Oh, OK, so here's, here's the AI answer. According to Hin,
each person of the Trinity is a triune being with
its own spirit, soul, and body. So 3 times 3
is 9.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
There you go. There's a word for that, friends, starts
with an H and rhymes with heresy.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
That is crazy. OK, well, you learn something new every day.
Thank you, Yvette, for sending in your question on the
pastor's perspective page at kwave.com. 888-564-6173 is the number to
call with your questions. They can be follow-ups to something
we've talked about or just your own question, 888-564-6173, and
(22:20):
we're gonna be here until 4 o'clock, so call in.
Karina sent this one in.
Uh, through the Kwave.com pastor's perspective page, I believe, Karina asks,
can you please explain Revelation 3:9? Hold on. Let me
read it really quick for those of you who don't
know what Revelation 39 is off the top of your head.
(22:41):
That's the one that reads, Indeed, I will make those
of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews
and are not, but lie. Indeed, I will make them
come and worship before your feet and to know that
I have loved you.
So Karina wants an explanation of that. She says, I
support Israel 100%, but my brother keeps throwing this verse
(23:03):
my way, and I'm not sure how to explain it.
Who is being referred to as the synagogue of Satan?
That is.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Yeah, great question. Uh, I'm just looking at the passage here. Uh,
one of my friends, a fellow apologist, a fellow theologian
I respect. Many of you have probably heard of Greg Cole.
He has a brilliant quote where he says, never read
a Bible verse.
Never read a Bible verse. And when I first heard it,
I'm like, that sounds right. I messed up. That's speaking
of heresy, uh, but clearly what he means is the
(23:32):
emphasis on the word A. Never read a Bible verse.
Read the verses in context, or you can turn any
verse to meaning anything you want it to mean. And
so I'm looking at Revelation 3 here. I just want
to back up instead of reading a Bible verse and
look at the heading is to the church in Philadelphia.
(23:54):
To the church in Philadelphia, not Philadelphia, PA. That didn't
exist yet. Nope. But it says, to the angel of
the church in Philadelphia, right, the words of the Holy One,
the true one, who has the key of David, who
opens and no one will shut, who shuts and no
one opens. I know your works. Now again, who's he
talking to? Not Jews in the 21st century, not modern
(24:18):
day Israel, he's talking to uh the church in Philadelphia,
he says, I know your works.
Behold, I have set before you an open door which
no one is able to shut. I know that you
have but little power, and yet you have kept my
word and have not denied my name. Verse 9. Behold,
I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who
(24:39):
say that they are Jews and are not, but lie. Behold,
I will make them come and bow down before your feet,
and they will learn that I have loved you.
Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I
will keep you from the hour of trial that is
coming on the whole world to try those who dwell
on the earth. Verse 11. I'm coming soon. Hold fast
(25:02):
to what you have so that no 1 may seize
your crown. The one who conquers, I will make him
a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall
he go out of it. I will write on him
the name of my God.
The name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem,
which comes down from my God out of heaven and
my own new name. He who has an ear, let
(25:23):
him hear what the spirit says to the churches. So
obviously there's a lot going on here. It's in the
book of Revelation, which is notoriously um tricky to interpret
because it employs all kinds of um Jewish apocalyptic imagery
that is 21st century readers can be a little tricky
to get at here. Let let me just say this.
To conclude based on Revelation 3, that
(25:48):
John, being inspired by the spirit to write the book
of Revelation, is speaking about modern day Israel.
I, I think that's just adding something to the text
that just isn't there. There's all kinds of stuff going
on there. We could take 3 hours and try to
unpack it line by line, but I think at the
bare minimum, uh, that passage is not referring to, um,
(26:10):
how we should think about Israel in the 21st century.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
All right, Corina, thank you for sending in your question
through the pastor's perspective page on Kwave.com. Right, one more
question before the break.
And then we'll get to your calls at 888-564-6173. T
in Oceanside writes, I'm wanting to do more to protect
and unite one another against those who intentionally attack people
(26:34):
of faith. The silencing, harassing, censorships, death threats, false narratives, discrimination, damages,
hate crimes, lies, division, and more is never OK. It's tragic.
These acts are unwarranted. My family has been through this,
and we believe preparation plus prayer plus awareness is key.
(26:55):
What are some ways we can combat these actions practically?
What would you say that?
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Yeah, I'm just pulling up a statistic here that rocked
my world when I found it, uh, last week. Um, obviously,
people are still reeling from the assassination of Charlie Kirk,
but to set this into a bigger context and sort
of add some, some context to the question,
(27:20):
Uh
The fact is many hated Charlie Kirk for being very
public about his love for Jesus.
And he was not alone in being the recipient of
hatred in that regard. So here's according to a recent study,
this is from Open Doors. A recent study found that
every month, an average of 373 Christians are killed for
(27:43):
faith-related reasons. That's 373 Christians killed for faith-related reasons around
the world every 30 day cycle.
The same resource found that each month, 640 churches or
Christian buildings are burned or attacked. 640 churches or Christian
buildings burned or attacked each month, while 395 Christians are
(28:06):
detained without trial.
Uh, back in 20, I believe it was 2018, Newsweek reported, quote,
Christian persecution and genocide is worse now than any time
in history, and it's only gotten worse since. And, and
that includes being targeted, beaten, imprisoned, hung, crucified, bombed for
(28:30):
being in Christ. Now,
We live in a cultural moment where fear sort of
drives millions.
And, and let me just say,
Instead of the chicken little complex, the sky's falling, you know,
the world's going to hell in a handbasket and, and
(28:52):
running in panic, Christians should be counterculturally fearless. We should
be counterculturally fearless because like I said in response to
the first question, we know who's on the throne. We
know who is the king of the entire universe. We
know that when Jesus was executed, when he was persecuted
to the point of being publicly murdered.
(29:13):
That God was on the throne and so I would
encourage Christians out there seeing the headlines, you know, another
church was shot up just this last Sunday. Do not
resort to fear, brothers and sisters, recognize Jesus is king. Mm,
Speaker 1 (29:28):
that's good. And just to.
Say it because I know people are wondering right now,
the people that were killed in that church, the attack
that happened at that church in, was it Michigan or yes,
so that was a Mormon church, so there would be
people that would say, well, you can't really include them
in this statistics.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
I mean.
Uh, in a technical level, that's absolutely true. Mormonism, we
could spend 3 hours talking about that, does have a
different Jesus, does have a different gospel, but the fact
of the matter is there are conservatives who are being
targeted in this country and around the
world.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
We'll talk more after the break.
Hey, we're back on Pastor's Perspective. Thanks so much for watching.
That's watching or listening. You can do either one because
(30:26):
we're on Facebook, YouTube and Instagram. That's how you can
watch us or you can listen on the radio or
on a podcast. We archive all of our episodes on Facebook, YouTube,
Apple Podcasts, and Spotify if you ever miss an episode. So,
so many ways to
Listen nowadays, so many ways to get your questions to
us too. Our favorite way is when you call in
to 888-564-6173. I'm Brian Perez here with Thad Williams, an
(30:52):
associate professor of theology at the Talbot School of Theology
at Biola University. He joins us today to answer your
questions at 888-564-6173.
Here's one that was sent in online anonymously, which is fine.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
real quick, I'm just thinking back to before the break, uh, that,
that brilliant question, uh, T sent it in. Yes, yes, um,
you know, how do we unite, how do we deal
with being harassed, censored, death threats, false narratives, all that stuff. I,
I do want to throw in just one more thought
that I think is particularly important in this moment with
(31:29):
all the headlines, um, that are playing out in real
time before us.
And that is, we saw at Charlie Kirk's funeral, what
was that 9 days ago.
One of the most powerful moments, I think in
United States history. And that was the widow, Erika Kirk,
(31:52):
standing up in front of last I read there were
hundreds of millions of people who witnessed Charlie Kirk's funeral.
And what did she say?
She said, according to Christ, he prayed, Father, forgive them,
for they do not know what they do.
So citing the direct words of Jesus as he's headed
to Skull Hill, as he's headed to his executioners, and
(32:15):
what is she citing those words for to say, oh, that,
that man, that young man.
I forgive him. Yeah, and I forgive him because it's
what Jesus would tell me to do and it's what
Charlie would do. And then she says, friends, we cannot
overcome hate with hate.
Only love can do that. Only love can drive out evil.
(32:39):
And so I would say one of the points throughout
church history where the church is strongest is when it's
on the receiving end of hate.
Henry returns hate with love. And so what do you
do when, um, you feel persecuted, when you feel like
the world's out to get you? Number one, do not cower.
Do not, do not shiver in in terror that, oh no,
(33:03):
remember who's on the throne? And like the early church
in Acts 4, pray that God would fill you with
boldness to continue speaking the word unabashedly, unapologetically.
And recognize that it is not hate, but the harder
we're hated, the harder we love back.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
So where do we draw the line on, like, uh,
turning the other cheek? Some pacifists out there might be
listening saying, wait a minute, if I get persecuted, I'm
just gonna say, hey, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
So, so recognize biblically, there is a distinction between church
and state. If you read Romans 13, it says that
one of the God-ordained roles of the state is to
bear the sword, to strike fear into the hearts of
evildoers and criminals.
And so when it comes to, uh, say, Charlie Kirk's assassin.
(33:54):
It would be perfectly biblically consistent to say he should
get legal justice. He should endure the sword of the state, um,
but the church's role biblically in the New Testament is
not to be the sword bearer. And so we leave
it to the God ordained government to execute justice. What
(34:16):
our job as Jane and Joe Christians is to extend grace, forgiveness, mercy.
Um, now, in the context of somebody busts into your
house and is threatening your family, um, I think there's
solid biblical foundation because everybody bears the image of God,
and particularly Paul's words that if somebody doesn't take care
(34:37):
of his own family, he's worse than a non-believer, um,
that there is a biblical mandate for protection.
Uh, when you're faced with, you know, somebody who's threatening
lethal harm or, or threatening to hurt the people you love.
So all of those things can go together at the
same time if we're thinking biblically.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
All right, very good. All right, phone calls coming up,
but first, here's this anonymous question that I was gonna
do really quick. It is, uh,
My husband has been open with me about struggling with pornography.
For a couple of years, we didn't talk about it much,
but I recently found pornography on his phone. I wonder
what your advice is for how to approach it with him.
(35:20):
So it looks like uh she found it, so maybe
she has not.
Gone to him yet, at least not since she sent
us this email. Maybe she has since then, but
Yeah, to handle that.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Well, thank you to Anonymous out there, um, for sharing this.
I will just say this is one of the primary
issues I deal with, uh, in my ministry, uh, whether
that's with students at Byola University or I, I travel
the world and speak at churches and things, and pornography
addiction is just epidemic and not just out there in
the world, it's right there in the church and.
(35:57):
I had a real turning point in how I, I
dealt with this a few years ago that I think
would be encouraging as, as you talk to your husband
about this, and for, let's face it, thousands of listeners
out there who also either love somebody or you yourself
are struggling with pornography. And, and this is what happened
for years and years.
I would meet with students.
(36:19):
And they would share their battle and I would say, OK, well,
let's get a software filter. Let let's download something like
I think it's Covenant Eyes is a really good one.
let's do that. Let's get you in an accountability group. Um,
let's do steps A, B, and C.
(36:39):
And it just seemed like every week they'd come back
and be like, yeah, didn't really work. I, uh, I
put the filter on, I turned my head and typed
in some random code, and within a day became a
world-class hacker and managed to find a way around it.
Like it didn't really get to the root problem.
And then I had a student, this was, uh, about
(37:01):
10 years ago now.
And he came to me, he, he wrote an email
where he just divulged with a lot of vulnerability. This
has been a battle for 10 years, I've tried accountability groups,
I've tried internet software, filters, all the things, and it's
just worse.
What do I do? So he sends the email and
(37:22):
I don't respond.
So he sees me next week in class, I still
don't respond. Another week goes by, finally comes up to
me and says, Hey, Thad, what's the deal, man? That was,
that was the most vulnerable email I've ever written. Turns
out he sent it to Thaddeuswilliams@gmail.com, which is the one
email address I couldn't get.
Because some other Thaddeus Williams has it. So I says,
Speaker 1 (37:42):
another Thaddeus
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Williamson, another Thaddeus Williams. So he said, Oh, I feel terrible,
drop the J in there. Thaddeus Jilliams@gmail.com, and I promise
I'll respond. I just felt terrible for the student. Uh,
so he drops the J in there, sends the email.
We get together, uh, I think within 24 hours.
And
He shares all of his failed attempts. And I said, OK,
(38:06):
here's my advice to you, and this would be my
advice to Anonymous's husband too, despair.
Despair of your ability to make an inch of progress
against this sexual sin against your your addiction to lust,
just despair. You, you've tried on your own power, and
it's only getting worse. You're, you're fighting fire with gasoline.
(38:29):
You're trying to kill the flesh, the sin nature with
your own sin nature, and it's not working. And the
students sort of looked at me like, that's terrible advice.
You want me to despair? I said, yeah, but then
move on to step two.
How does Paul handle pornography or in first century Thessalonica,
it's the Greek word pornea, which is sort of a
general term for sexual immorality.
(38:51):
And in dealing with 1st century Pornea, he says, may God,
this is in 1 Thessalonians chapter 3 verse 12, he says,
may God cause you to increase and abound in love.
What's Paul doing here? A couple of things all at
the same time. Number one, he's identifying, he's diagnosing what
sexual sin, what Pornea really is. It's a failure to love.
(39:13):
It's treating an image bearer of God as just an image, right?
That's what pornography does. Takes an image bearer of God
with irreducible value, flattens them out into a two-dimensional image
so that they are now just a means to the
end of us getting some physical rush. That's a failure
to love.
Now what does Paul do? He says, may God cause
you to increase and abound in love. And then in
(39:36):
his second letter, 2 Thessalonians in the prologue, he uses
that he almost cuts and pastes the same language and says,
Thank God that you are increasing and abounding in love.
And so, I told this student that in my office
10 years ago.
And I said, let's pray as if God is actually
sovereign enough to cause you to increase an amount in love,
(39:58):
but let's pray the way Paul did for the Thessalonians,
and let's just see what happens.
And I realized as I'm telling the student that this
is a risky proposition because if it turns out it
doesn't work, then the student's gonna doubt all the theology
I've been teaching them all semester.
And so I committed to praying for him every day.
He committed to praying for himself, God caused me to
(40:18):
increase an abound in love. He walked into my class
the next week and
I gotta tell you, Brian, he looked like physically different.
Like before he sort of had this gloominess. It seemed
like in an old cartoon when a, uh, a rain
cloud follows you everywhere. You just seemed gloomy and despondent
all the time, couldn't really make eye contact. Well,
(40:41):
He walked into class that week and there was just
a glow, like what an old King James Bible would
describe as your countenance. Your countenance is the, the exterior
appearance of your soul's internal state. His countenance had shifted.
There was a glow. It was like looking at the
real him. And so before he even told me, I
knew what he was gonna say, he came up and
he said, Thad, it worked, um.
(41:03):
This was his exact words. He said, I'm so filled
up with the Holy Spirit that there's just no room
left for the pornography. I'm so filled to the brim
with the spirit. I'm enjoying Jesus so much, there's just
no room left for the pornography. And I will tell you, Brian,
for the last 10 years, every single semester, I have
heard that story again and again and again. The truth is,
(41:26):
What Paul says in Romans 8:13, By the spirit, put
to death the deeds of the sin nature. By the Spirit,
those three words, by the spirit, set true biblical spirituality
apart from every false self-help system, every false religion. So
my prayer for you, Anonymous and your husband, be praying for.
(41:46):
Him that God would cause him to increase and abound
in love. Uh, ask him to pray that for himself.
Ask him to realize the sin he's been trying to
kill on his own power. It's impossible to spair. But
then turn to the Holy Spirit who has the omnipotence
to drop bombs on those tanks of sin in his heart,
to cast down.
(42:08):
Our little pea shooter attempts, our little spit wad attempts
to take down the tank of sin, Radio in divine
air support, ask the Holy Spirit to kill the sin
for us, we can't kill for ourselves. And final thought,
two resources to have on your radar. You could read
through these with your husband. The first one is, um,
called The Mortification of Sin by John Owen, The Mortification
(42:31):
of sin by John Owen.
Uh, it's a little tricky to get into the Puritan
language at first, but stick with it. It's a book
I've given out more than any other in my 20
years of ministry. Um, it's a short read. I feel
like it's 80 pages or so, and it'll walk you
through this process of what's called mortification or sin killing. Uh,
(42:52):
and on that theme, there's another great resource called, uh,
Killing sin. Killing sin, that's by Carl Clawson.
Carl Clawson's killing sin, conquer the one thing that is
defeating you, two awesome resources.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
And the idea of getting more of the Holy Spirit
in you applies to all sin, all addiction, not just pornography,
just to, just to say that because there's people that
might say, well, that, I don't struggle with that, but yeah,
you've got other things that you're dealing with.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
So and why, why do those folks out there, including me,
why do we go back to the same sins, not
because we
We have to, not out of duty. We sin again
and again because we want to. We sin out of delight.
And so that clues us into the fact that our hearts,
taste buds are jacked up, that we find sin sweeter.
(43:42):
More savory than the infinite Creator of the universe. It's
not because sin is more satisfying than God. It's not.
It's that our hearts taste buds are all jacked up
because of the fall. And so I encourage our listeners
out there, pray, just say, Holy Spirit, here's my heart.
It's so jacked up that it can taste sin as
sweet when it's actually nauseating and disgusting.
(44:05):
And I can taste Jesus as dull when he's actually
infinitely satisfying. Holy Spirit, go to work on my heart,
recalibrate the taste buds of my soul so that I
find sin as nauseating as it truly is, and Jesus
as sweet and life-giving as he actually is.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
That's good. Thank you so much, Anonymous, for sending in
your question through the pastor's
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Anonymus,
Speaker 1 (44:27):
the
Speaker 2 (44:28):
Greek name, Anonymous.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
Let's go to the phones now. Here is Doreen in Corona.
Thank you, Doreen, for calling in to Pastor's Perspective today.
How can we help you?
Speaker 2 (44:40):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
So, um, it's not really a Bible question.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
Uh, I just
Speaker 1 (44:44):
want to work through
Speaker 2 (44:45):
something,
Speaker 1 (44:46):
but, um, I, I've struggled with suicidal
Speaker 2 (44:48):
thoughts for a
Speaker 1 (44:49):
long,
Speaker 2 (44:50):
very long time. I'm 35 and I've
Speaker 1 (44:52):
struggled with
Speaker 2 (44:53):
it.
Um,
Uh, for a while,
Speaker 1 (44:56):
but,
Speaker 2 (44:57):
um, something to, I thought about, I'm
Speaker 1 (45:00):
just trying to think, like
Speaker 2 (45:01):
coming to
Speaker 1 (45:02):
a conclusion on,
Speaker 2 (45:03):
I'm going to live with this for the rest of
my life, so I might as well just um think
of the best way why God has me, where he
has me. So, um, at a Bible study last week, um,
The girls were talking about like God coming and taking
them away, and then they were thinking like, oh well,
I don't really want them to because I don't want
to leave my family yet. I want to see them
(45:24):
get married and all of that and I didn't feel that.
I felt like I want God to take me now
and made me feel really bad as a parent, for one,
because I'm like, well, I would want to see my kids,
but I, I'm suffering more.
I love them, but I'm suffering more than anything. So
when I came into the conclusion and thinking is like, well, maybe.
(45:48):
I'm, I'm a very bold person and I will, I
will die for my faith. And I feel like that's
where this is me just thinking why I'm in the
place I am is that to be bold and to
do the things that um I could I could step
into faith and, and talk to people about Jesus and
(46:09):
not be scared to die. So I, I think when
I'm trying to um ask.
I is that the right approach, or am I just
grabbing at something that's not, that's not right? Do you,
do you get what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, I hear you, Doreen.
Thank you for sharing that. Let me just, um, right
out of the gate, say I get it.
(46:29):
I, uh, I shared my story on the show a
few months ago, but, uh, I was saved at the
age of 14 from a pit of suicidal despair where
I was having intrusive thoughts of suicide, and they were
just keeping me up at night and, um, were haunting,
and God was able to use that like a running
(46:51):
theme on this show was that that God's sovereign over
all of it, he never wastes any pain.
God was able to use that pain in my life
to make me like, like you're saying you're bold, um,
God was able through my suicidal thoughts to give me
the boldness that here I am 30 years after.
Um, getting saved and through the depth of that despair,
(47:13):
God did not waste that in my life. He's used
it to embolden me to draw many more people to
Jesus and so I want you to see yourself in
that light, Doreen, and that none of those thoughts are
wasted in God's universe. God is redeeming them. He is
using um them in your life to, to embolden you
to share the good news of Jesus. Now let let
me ask just a clarifying question.
(47:35):
Um, when you feel things are so unbearable, most people
tend to have their negative emotions expressed in one of
three sort of primary ways, either anger, uh, anxiety, or depression.
And so of those three, when you have suicidal thoughts,
do you find yourself, uh, more depressed, more anxious, more angry?
(47:58):
Um, I would say for sure anger, anger.
OK, and, and I would imagine that isn't a new, uh,
issue that's, that's probably been with you for a while.
Yeah, it was anxiety for a while, but then it
turned into anger.
OK, and, and feel free to not share any of
this online or out there for the, the interwebs or
(48:20):
the airwaves. Um, but have you focused at all on
what the root of the anger is and how specifically
the gospel speaks into that? Is, is that something you've
explored over the years?
Um, well, I think I get angry because of control.
When I don't have control of something, I get very angry. Um,
(48:43):
I don't have control over my life, obviously, um, over
my kid's life, and to that I feel like I
don't want to live because I don't have control over
those things. They're just. I just get very angry. Yeah,
that makes perfect sense. That, yeah, that.
That shows, shows me you have a whole lot of self-awareness. So,
(49:05):
so typically the way this is broken down is
Folks get depressed when they feel like something is just impossible,
and so they just sort of slink down into a
heap of despair. People get anxious when they feel like
something's uncertain. Like, I'm not sure how this is gonna go,
and so the fear creeps in and the anxiety. The
(49:25):
anger creeps in when people feel blocked, like there's something I,
I want, but there's something standing in my way, um,
something stopping me, and so that lack of control.
It is exactly, it, it just makes perfect sense why
you're feeling the anger. So here would be my encouragement
to you. Um, I, I met somebody very similar to,
(49:47):
to everything you've described, Doreen, a few years ago, and
She came at me with a long list of objections, um,
to Christianity. I'm, I'm curious, do you identify, are you
a Christian or not so much? Oh yeah, I'm, I'm, yeah, no, I'm,
I'm a full on.
(50:08):
OK, awesome. Well, well, this particular friend of mine wasn't.
And so she came at me with a long list
of objections to God, and she was saying, you know,
why would God allow this? Why would God do that?
And I just asked her, I said, if I could
prove to you God exists, would you then bow the knee?
And her answer within a split second was, no, not
a chance. And I asked her, well, why is that?
(50:31):
And she thought about it and she said, well, honestly, Thad, the,
the thought of bowing my knee of surrendering control.
To God that makes me feel panic. And so I
asked her, I said, and I, I'll ask you the
same question, um, for this, this woman I was speaking to.
She felt that by being in control, she felt safe.
(50:54):
By being in control, she felt like, um, she could
turn left in her life when she felt like turning left,
she could go right, she could accelerate, she could slam
on the brakes. She didn't wanna, uh, take the advice
of the great theologian Carrie Underwood, Jesus, take the wheel, right?
She didn't, she didn't want to surrender that control. And
so I just asked her the question I'll ask you.
(51:15):
Trying to be in control, trying to be in the
driver's seat, how is, how is that working out for you?
And when I asked this girl, she just sort of
broke down, but I'd ask you the same question, how
is trying to be in control? How's that working out
for you?
It's not. Um, I was actually, when I came to, uh, faith, I, I,
(51:37):
I was that girl like I didn't, that was my
first question is, if God was real, why would he
let these things happen and that's because of my um
When I was younger, things, bad things happened to me
and I didn't understand. I couldn't understand why. And so
now when I feel like I wanna, I, my, my
hardest thing to do is pray because I feel like
(51:58):
if I pray for something, God's gonna take something.
from me. Yeah, I hear you. Yes, if I ask
for God to keep my kids safe, it's gonna be
the opposite because now he's testing me. Yeah, I, I 100%
relate to that. I, I feel you, Doreen. Let, let
me just pass on this encouragement because I, that has
been an ongoing battle. I mentioned how Jesus saved me
(52:19):
from suicidal despair when I was 14, but that battle
for the steering wheel has been an ongoing thing for
me and please hear me when I say,
God is
Infinitely better at being God over your life than you are.
That's scary, but trust him, he's not just sovereign in
a way that he's mean, he's up there with a
(52:41):
magnifying glass trying to burn your life or or burn
your kids. The God who's sovereign over your life is
a loving father, Doreen. It's, it's just a final quick
thought here on this. My little boy, um, Henry.
When I throw him up in the air to catch him,
he is completely out of control.
(53:02):
And when I wrestle with him, he has no idea
what move is coming next. But he experiences the loss
of control as joy because he knows I'm a dad
who loves him. If some stranger came up and started
throwing my son in the air, he would be freaking
out because he doesn't know the guy and he is
not his loving father, right?
So as you yield control, understand, dear sister, you are
(53:26):
in the hands of an all powerful father who loves you,
loves your kids more than you can possibly imagine. And
so I'd encourage you also just one quick resource, check
out the book, um.
Finding Calm. This is by a mentor of mine who's
also dealt with severe anxiety and, and things like that,
suicidal thoughts over the years. Finding Calm by JP Morland, um,
(53:49):
that's a really, really great resource. And no, in the meantime,
I am praying for you and there are thousands of
people listening now who are also lifting you up in prayer, Doreen. Um,
I would also encourage you to seek out a good
solid Christian therapist. You shouldn't have to handle this alone.
Speaker 1 (54:05):
Thank you. Is it finding calm or finding quiet? Oh,
Speaker 2 (54:08):
Finding quiet, my bad. Finding Quiet by JP Morgan. And thanks, uh,
a million times over for being vulnerable with that. We're
praying for you. I promise you there is a light
around that at the end of that dark tunnel. I've
been there myself, um, God's got you,
Speaker 1 (54:23):
sister. Yeah, Doreen, thank you for being vulnerable with us
today on Pastor's perspective, because I think there's a lot
of people that think the same thing where
You know, if I ask God to protect my children,
he might do the opposite as as a test. That is,
that's exactly what Doreen said. But, so what are you
gonna do? You're not gonna pray for your children. God
still knows you love them, right?
Speaker 2 (54:42):
So, exactly. And I would just say, uh, for all
the folks out there who can relate to this, um,
read Psalm 107.
Make time, carve out some time, read Psalm 107 tonight.
It talks precisely about these issues that uh Doreen is
far from alone in.
Speaker 1 (54:57):
Yep, Psalm 107, verse 9, for he satisfies the loving soul,
and no, wait, hold on, for he satisfies the longing soul.
And oh, I can't think of it now. It's right
outside the door because, you know, our frequency is 107.9,
so we have Psalm 107.9 out there. I walk by
it all the time and now that I have to
quote it, I can't remember. I can look it up.
I have a Bible right here in front of me,
(55:18):
but I'm not going to. I got to remember it.
It's a challenge. All right, everyone who called in today,
thank you so much. Uh, we'll do it again tomorrow.
Thad Williams, great job, sir. Thanks for coming in. I
know you love coming in, and, uh, we need to
have you here more often. You can find out more
about Thad and Biola University on their website, Biola.
(55:39):
Dot EDU. Today's episode will be archived a little bit
later on Facebook, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify. And if
you've got a question for us, write it down so
you don't forget it and then call us tomorrow between
3 and 4. For Thad Williams, I'm Brian Perez, and
Pastor's Perspective was sponsored by Calvary Chapel Cost Mesa.
Speaker 2 (56:04):
It actually took
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez,
and we are here in the studio on this Tuesday
afternoon to answer the questions you have about the Bible,
the Christian faith, theology, doctrine, whatever you want to talk about.
888-564-6173 is our number. Grab an open line. The sooner
(00:38):
you call in, the better.
a chance you'll get on. If you're watching us on Facebook, YouTube,
or Instagram. Now some of you are saying, wait a minute,
you guys are on Facebook, YouTube and Instagram? Yeah, we
live stream, uh, the program, and you can watch us there. Uh,
I don't know why you'd want to watch us. We
don't offer graphics or animation or anything. It's just for,
I guess so, you know, 2 or 3 people talking
(00:58):
in the studio and yeah, you're welcome to.
Watch us if you want. Um, you can chat there
if you want. Keep it kind, keep it civil. If
you've got a question, give us a call though, 888-564-6173.
And the voice you just heard, that is Thad Williams.
He is an associate professor of theology at the Talbot
(01:18):
School of Theology at Viola University.
Uh, how's it going, Dad?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
It's going great. It's been a while. Yeah, it's been
a couple of months. I've been to Australia, I think Japan,
all kinds of crazy stuff since I've been here last,
but yeah, doing the Lord's work.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yeah, that's awesome. Great to have you back here. Uh,
Tommy Coda will be joining us in just a little bit,
so we'll get some questions answered in the meantime. What
do you say we get started with a question that
was sent in online?
Cause there are other ways that you can get your
question to us. If you can't call in when we're
here in the studio, you can go to our flagship
radio station's website, Kwave.com, and look for the pastor's perspective page.
(01:56):
And, uh, there's a form there that you can fill
out that gets your question to us, or go to
the pastor's perspective Facebook page and send us a message
on Messenger or DM us on the pastor's perspective, Instagram.
Wait one more. If you're watching on Facebook, YouTube, or Instagram,
you can scan that QR code, and that'll take you
right to the pastors.
(02:17):
perspective page on Kwave.com, which is how Lisa from Riverside
sent in her question. Lisa asks, Are we rewarded in
heaven for the injustices we face on earth? Christians face
so much opposition in this world for their faith, but
what about when we are Christians who happen to be
(02:37):
suffering but not suffering because we're Christians? Are we still
rewarded for that suffering? What do you say that?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah, I would say, uh, where we start biblically is
with the fact that God is sovereign over every square
inch of reality. Uh, you see Jesus make the claim
in the Gospels that not a dove falls to the
ground apart from the heavenly Father's will. And so there's
(03:06):
a sense that of all the suffering in the cosmos
ever since Genesis 3.
That even a bird dropping dead is not something that
takes God by surprise, it's very much within his sovereign will. Now,
far more profound than than the death of a sparrow, uh,
or a bird is the death of the Son of God.
(03:27):
And when we read John chapter 4, there's a clear affirmation.
That when Jesus was executed, the way Luke narrates the
early church's prayer in Acts chapter 4, he says they,
Christ's executioners did what your will and your hand predetermined
to happen. The will of God, that's Greek, it's boule tautheo,
(03:51):
hand of God chier tautheo. This is the language that
God is in charge, and where was God when Jesus
was executed?
Right where he's always been on the throne of the universe,
ruling everything. Where is God when harm befalls us, right
where he's always been on the throne. And so I'm
convinced based on scripture that there's no such thing in
(04:13):
a biblical worldview as wasted pain. There's no such thing
in a biblical worldview as superfluous suffering. All of it
will be redeemed for the glory of God and for
our good.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Even the stuff that like we're suffering for because of
something we did, not necessarily something that was done to us.
So like, Lisa's question, yeah, well, we're gonna get rewarded
for being persecuted, uh, her question, what if we're just
suffering for the for suffering's sake, you could say, but
when we inflict it upon ourselves, when the suffering is
(04:45):
because of something we did.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah, so I, I would say getting down to the minutiae,
it was RC Sproll who said, you know, there's not
a maverick molecule in the universe. I'm convinced in the
new heavens and the new earth, you will be able
to look back and see, oh, that time I stubbed
my toe, God was glorified in that. Now, when it
comes to self-inflicted suffering, I think here we point to
(05:08):
the cross of Jesus, that if it's self-inflicted through our
sin and stupidity,
Jesus bears the full brunt of that, so even all
of that is redeemed. I don't think there's, there's, again,
a single ounce of pain or suffering we could endure,
whether it's at our own hands or at the hands
of someone else or at the hands of a natural disaster,
(05:30):
there's no such thing as senseless suffering in God's universe.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
All right, Lisa, I hope that answers your question. Thank
you for sending it in through the pastor's perspective page
on Kwave.com. And here's one that was sent in on
the pastor's perspective Facebook page through Messenger. It's from Daniel
in Santa Maria, California, who writes, My question today is
regarding curses.
I'm not very educated in this matter, so bear with me.
(05:57):
For many years I've had unfortunate circumstances which push me
away from people. I have no communication with my family
besides one sister and have no partner due to intolerable
behaviors that are toxic.
I have felt alone for many years and question if
this is a curse I need to break. If so,
how so? How can I tell? My next question regarding
(06:19):
curses is in regards to finances and power. It seems
that I have a hard time maneuvering and sustaining money.
For years,
I have had money, then lost it. I've never been
able to have a home or even an apartment. Even
keeping up is a struggle. Is this also a curse,
or is it just a matter of my character and choices?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah, awesome, awesome question, Daniel. I'm so glad you reached
out with this. Uh, first off, my heart goes out
to you. It sounds like you've endured.
Um, some pretty serious suffering, pain, and loneliness, and I
think that's a theme that 99.9% of our listeners can
relate to. Uh, you're far from alone. Uh, now, is
(07:01):
it a curse? I would say, um, thinking scripturally about this.
Look at the opening of the Bible. God says, at
the end of every creation day, he says, it's good,
it's good, it's good. In in Hebrew, this word tov,
it's beautiful, it's blessed, it's good.
And then on day 5 of creation, you get the
(07:24):
first malediction in the Bible or uh I take that back,
day 6, where God says it's not good. What's not
good in God's good creation? It's not good for man
to be alone.
And we see why by the time we flip to
John one and compare it with Genesis one, they start
(07:46):
the same way. Genesis 1:1, in the beginning, God created
the heavens and the earth. John 1:1, in the beginning
was the word, Jesus, the Lagos. That word is with God,
that word is God, and by the time you get through.
Uh, John one, you see that this is a father-son
bond within the Trinity. Father has always loved son. Son
(08:09):
has always loved Father, Spirit has always loved father and son,
and so God is as a Trinity, he is connection.
He is community, he is family, he is relationship, and
that sheds light on way back in Genesis 1 and
Genesis 2, why it's not good for us to be alone.
We are created by a god, a triune God of
(08:31):
community for community. And this is one of several fascinating
examples where the science is catching up to the scriptures.
In the scriptures, uh, we see that we're created for
relationship by God of relationship. Well, there was a recent
study by Robert Putnam out of out of Harvard University,
where he found that if you're disconnected, and Daniel, it
(08:53):
sounds like you're in a pretty lonely place, if you
step out of your comfort zone to get connected in
the next year.
According to Putnam's study, you cut your chances of dying
in half. We were created by a god of community
for community. The same study found, this is just fascinating stuff,
that people who, uh, have poor lifestyle habits, you know,
(09:17):
they might down a bucket of Big Macs or KFC
every night or, you know, they smoke a carton of
marbles or whatever it might be, but they're relationally connected.
Will actually outlive people who have healthy lifestyle habits. They exercise,
they eat right, um, but are disconnected. Now, now the
(09:37):
moral of that study is not go, you know, smoke
a carton of marbles with your friends. Yeah, the the
moral of the story is get yourself connected. And so
that would be my encouragement to Daniel and all the
folks out there who are feeling.
Um, that sting of the curse in Genesis 3. Part
of what happens at the fall is that our createdness
(10:00):
for connection, there's a huge rift where we get severed
from our connection with God, we get severed from our
connection to each other, we get severed.
From our connection to ourselves and so God has sent
this rescue mission through Jesus to bring us back into
community with ourselves, with each other and with the Father.
And so I would encourage this real down to earth, Daniel, um, please,
(10:23):
please hear me. Find yourself a good solid, Bible believing
church where you can be seen.
Where you can be known, where you can serve, where
you can be loved. That's God's plan A for bringing
us out of the curse of the fall.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Before we get to um Daniel's other question about curses, uh,
let's talk about being alone for a while. So in Genesis,
Uh, it is not good for man to be alone,
and then Eve comes into the picture, right? So a
lot of people take that verse to say, oh, so
this means that they're like, there's a man for, there's
a man and a woman for each other out there.
(11:01):
There's like a, you know, but yet some people remain
single all their life or part of their life. So
not being alone is, it's not necessarily a male-female relationship,
Speaker 2 (11:11):
would you say? Yeah, so, so going back to creation
day 6.
Well, after God gives all these benedictions, it's good, it's good,
it's good, it's good. Then he gives the malediction, it's
not good. His first bad word he speaks about creation.
It's not good for man to be alone. Then he
creates woman, he creates female, and now you have this
(11:31):
beautiful distinction between male and female, and it's only on
that day that God doesn't just say it's good, he
says it's very good. And so there is something.
Very good, exceedingly good is how some translations render it.
And so the idea that male and female distinctions are
an exceedingly good, beautiful thing, that's right there in the text.
(11:53):
But what about somebody who says, well, that sounds great,
but I'm single. Well, there's somebody else who's single, who's
the most fully human human to ever exist, and that's Jesus.
And so don't think if you find yourself, um, isolated from, say,
a romantic relationship, that therefore you're doomed to, um, isolation
(12:15):
and alienation and misery for the rest of your life.
And that goes again back to the power of church. Um,
and I think many of our churches could step up
their game there in terms of being a place where
it's not just for the male, female, married unit.
Uh, but where single folks can find true friendship, true love,
romantic love, Eros in, in the Greek is not the
(12:37):
only way that it, that we need to be connected, um,
in order to enjoy what it fully means to be
an image bearer
of God.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
All right, so Daniel's other question about curses was just
in terms of money and finances and things of that nature.
Daniel thinks he's got a curse on him or something
because
He can't hold on to money even in times when
he did have money, he lost it. We don't know
how he lost it, but he did. And, um,
Speaker 2 (13:05):
so speaking to one of the things we want to
be careful of is there's a tendency in certain strands
of Christianity where there's sort of a
A demon behind every bush. There's, there's a demon behind
every stubbed toe, um, every time your, your team loses, um,
you know, there's something satanic, there's something sinister and demonic
(13:26):
about it. And I would just say instead of rushing to,
is there some curse that's causing me financial hardship, maybe
there's a much more straightforward explanation for what's going on.
Uh, I would recommend check out, I know Dave Ramsey
can at times be controversial, but he's got really, really
helpful stuff on how to make money, how to hold
(13:49):
on to money. Uh, he walks through a handful of
steps where, you know, have a $1000 cushion.
A $1000 sort of emergency fund and then how to
start saving up so that you can create uh long-term wealth.
I know Crown Financial, they've been around a long time.
They have stellar resources on how to help Daniel and
(14:10):
many more folks out there figure out how do I
actually manage my money, um, to the glory of God.
So I would say instead of resorting to, oh, there's
some supernatural curse, maybe just take some of the biblical
wisdom on how to best manage our money.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Daniel, thank you for sending in your questions on the
pastor's perspective Facebook messenger. 888-564-6173 is the number to call
us today. That voice you hear is Thad Williams. He's
an associate professor of theology at the Talbot School of
Theology at Biola University, and he's taking your calls until
(14:46):
4 p.m. today, Tuesday, 888-564-6173,888-564.
6173. Here's another question this one sent in online on
the pastor's perspective page at kwave.com. And Yvette from Santa
Ana writes, I'd rather just have my question answered without
(15:07):
me talking on the radio. No, Yvette, we'd rather talk
to you.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
We're so intimidating. Yes, we're not. Call in people. We
love you. Yes,
Speaker 1 (15:14):
yes,
but, uh, so here's Yvette's question. If we are all
one body in Jesus Christ.
And are to be like-minded in truth taught by the
Holy Spirit. Then why are there different views on baptism, revelation,
the Trinity, and so on? Doesn't every Christian have the
same Holy Spirit?
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Yeah, such, such a great question. What is it? Yvette? Yes,
I get that right, Yvette, yeah, really great question. I
go back here to the great church father, the great
African bishop, pastor, theologian, one of my personal heroes, and
that is Augustine.
Uh, Augustine
Uh, just, it, it's a fascinating backstory how he got saved.
(15:55):
I just want to give you the 32nd version. Here
he is sort of this rock star speaker. He travels around,
he goes on tours, he's got all these groupies, and
he's living a life of just full blown sexual sin. Uh,
he's got all the fame anybody could ever ask for.
And one day in an orchard of pear trees, he
has this total existential crisis, a total breakdown where he
(16:18):
realizes that he's utterly empty inside.
And so as he's bawling his eyes out, he hears
a little kid singing in the distance, and the little
kid's song was Take it and read, take it and read,
which wasn't like Wheels on the Bus Go Round and
round or, you know, Mary had a little lamb, like, what,
what song is that? That he had never heard that
as a children's song. He took that as a divine sign.
(16:41):
To wipe his tears, stand up, rush home and find
the first Bible he could and open it up. That's
exactly what it is. He did. He opens it to, uh,
1 Corinthians 6 about repenting of sexual immorality. He gets
radically saved, goes on to be one of the greatest
minds in church history. So in his day, there were
(17:02):
heated disputes, you know, Augustine debated a group called the Pelagians,
the Donatists. There were several controversies.
And he came down with this credo that I think
has a lot of wisdom.
He said in essentials, unity.
In non-essentials, liberty, and in all things, charity or love.
(17:26):
And I think that that's our watchword here as we
sift through, there's very real differences that good spirit indwelts
believers have over questions like how is the world gonna end?
Is Jesus gonna come back before the rapture, after the rapture?
Is there gonna be 1000 year millennium after the return
of Jesus? All these in-house questions that we can look
(17:48):
at each other and say, Hey, you're my brother in Christ.
We call the same Godfather. We're redeemed by the same Jesus.
We're inhabited by the same Holy Spirit, so we need
to be careful to have liberty in non-essentials. And so
I think that the questioner also raised views of baptism.
Uh, Augustine had a view of baptism that I don't
(18:09):
agree with, um, baptismal regeneration. Uh, many hold to, uh,
baby baptism or what's called Pao baptism. You find Presbyterians
advancing that view.
Then there's adult believers baptism that you'll find in places
like Calvary Chapel, where I got baptized, uh, and in
the Baptist churches. Now, again, here's one of those in non-essentials,
(18:30):
liberty and in all things charity. We love each other
even though we have different views on how baptism should
be played out in the life of the church, but
that's nothing to draw a hard line and say, if
you disagree with me on this, you know, you're anathema,
you're excommunicated, you're a heretic or anything like that.
But then the questioner, Yvette, I, I'm glad one of
(18:53):
the examples you raised was the Trinity.
Because this is one of those areas that I would
say falls into the first clause of Augustine Augustine's statement,
in essentials unity. We gotta get God right. We gotta
get who God is and who God has revealed himself
to be right, or we have stepped out of bounds
(19:14):
of the historic Christian faith. So example, I think it
was about 30 years ago now, very famous televangelist.
Uh, made the claim that he had received some special
revelation that God is not a trinity. God is 9
persons in in one B. There, there's a nanity, not
(19:34):
a trinity. And at the time, um, several.
Church leaders, pastors, theologians stood up and said, Hey man,
that's out of bounds, because now you have changed the
very being of God and what scripture clearly affirms in
Matthew 28. You are baptized in the name, singular of Holpatros.
(19:57):
Ios, Caihonumo Aio in the name of, and then it
lists 3 persons, not 9 persons, the Father, Son, and
Holy Spirit. And so we need to keep the essentials essential.
There's one God, one God exists as 3 inner loving persons, Father, Son,
and spirit. Jesus, the second person of the Trinity, became
(20:17):
the godman, the theanthropos, fully human, fully divine.
The godman died as our great substitute on the cross.
He rose bodily, not as a phantom, not as a spirit,
not as a ghost. He rose physically in real time
space history, so that we are saved, not through our performance,
our religiosity, our rule keeping, we're saved as an utterly
(20:39):
free gift from a gracious God, and that same Jesus
is coming back. That's essential Christianity 101.
And so we want to be clear that we can
agree on that, celebrate those glorious truths, disagree about things
like baptism, disagree about things like end times, chronology, how
all that's gonna pan out, but in all of it,
(21:01):
have charity and love for each other.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
I'm still trying to get past the 9 names, so the,
the 9, I mean, no, I, I don't think I
ever heard that. How did they come up with 9?
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Uh, I, I don't know. It'd be father, son, Holy Spirit, uncle, CEO, boss, friend. I, it,
it's based off a mistranslation of a passage. It was
Benny Hinn who said it years ago. Um, Benny Hinnine
Parts to the Trinity, you can look that up. Um,
I think it's based off a mistranslation of a passage
in Revelation, OK, where there's seven spirits of God.
(21:36):
And so, I think, if I'm not mistaken, he said, father, son,
and then there's 7 spirits equals 9.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Oh, OK, so here's, here's the AI answer. According to Hin,
each person of the Trinity is a triune being with
its own spirit, soul, and body. So 3 times 3
is 9.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
There you go. There's a word for that, friends, starts
with an H and rhymes with heresy.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
That is crazy. OK, well, you learn something new every day.
Thank you, Yvette, for sending in your question on the
pastor's perspective page at kwave.com. 888-564-6173 is the number to
call with your questions. They can be follow-ups to something
we've talked about or just your own question, 888-564-6173, and
(22:20):
we're gonna be here until 4 o'clock, so call in.
Karina sent this one in.
Uh, through the Kwave.com pastor's perspective page, I believe, Karina asks,
can you please explain Revelation 3:9? Hold on. Let me
read it really quick for those of you who don't
know what Revelation 39 is off the top of your head.
(22:41):
That's the one that reads, Indeed, I will make those
of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews
and are not, but lie. Indeed, I will make them
come and worship before your feet and to know that
I have loved you.
So Karina wants an explanation of that. She says, I
support Israel 100%, but my brother keeps throwing this verse
(23:03):
my way, and I'm not sure how to explain it.
Who is being referred to as the synagogue of Satan?
That is.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Yeah, great question. Uh, I'm just looking at the passage here. Uh,
one of my friends, a fellow apologist, a fellow theologian
I respect. Many of you have probably heard of Greg Cole.
He has a brilliant quote where he says, never read
a Bible verse.
Never read a Bible verse. And when I first heard it,
I'm like, that sounds right. I messed up. That's speaking
of heresy, uh, but clearly what he means is the
(23:32):
emphasis on the word A. Never read a Bible verse.
Read the verses in context, or you can turn any
verse to meaning anything you want it to mean. And
so I'm looking at Revelation 3 here. I just want
to back up instead of reading a Bible verse and
look at the heading is to the church in Philadelphia.
(23:54):
To the church in Philadelphia, not Philadelphia, PA. That didn't
exist yet. Nope. But it says, to the angel of
the church in Philadelphia, right, the words of the Holy One,
the true one, who has the key of David, who
opens and no one will shut, who shuts and no
one opens. I know your works. Now again, who's he
talking to? Not Jews in the 21st century, not modern
(24:18):
day Israel, he's talking to uh the church in Philadelphia,
he says, I know your works.
Behold, I have set before you an open door which
no one is able to shut. I know that you
have but little power, and yet you have kept my
word and have not denied my name. Verse 9. Behold,
I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who
(24:39):
say that they are Jews and are not, but lie. Behold,
I will make them come and bow down before your feet,
and they will learn that I have loved you.
Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I
will keep you from the hour of trial that is
coming on the whole world to try those who dwell
on the earth. Verse 11. I'm coming soon. Hold fast
(25:02):
to what you have so that no 1 may seize
your crown. The one who conquers, I will make him
a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall
he go out of it. I will write on him
the name of my God.
The name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem,
which comes down from my God out of heaven and
my own new name. He who has an ear, let
(25:23):
him hear what the spirit says to the churches. So
obviously there's a lot going on here. It's in the
book of Revelation, which is notoriously um tricky to interpret
because it employs all kinds of um Jewish apocalyptic imagery
that is 21st century readers can be a little tricky
to get at here. Let let me just say this.
To conclude based on Revelation 3, that
(25:48):
John, being inspired by the spirit to write the book
of Revelation, is speaking about modern day Israel.
I, I think that's just adding something to the text
that just isn't there. There's all kinds of stuff going
on there. We could take 3 hours and try to
unpack it line by line, but I think at the
bare minimum, uh, that passage is not referring to, um,
(26:10):
how we should think about Israel in the 21st century.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
All right, Corina, thank you for sending in your question
through the pastor's perspective page on Kwave.com. Right, one more
question before the break.
And then we'll get to your calls at 888-564-6173. T
in Oceanside writes, I'm wanting to do more to protect
and unite one another against those who intentionally attack people
(26:34):
of faith. The silencing, harassing, censorships, death threats, false narratives, discrimination, damages,
hate crimes, lies, division, and more is never OK. It's tragic.
These acts are unwarranted. My family has been through this,
and we believe preparation plus prayer plus awareness is key.
(26:55):
What are some ways we can combat these actions practically?
What would you say that?
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Yeah, I'm just pulling up a statistic here that rocked
my world when I found it, uh, last week. Um, obviously,
people are still reeling from the assassination of Charlie Kirk,
but to set this into a bigger context and sort
of add some, some context to the question,
(27:20):
Uh
The fact is many hated Charlie Kirk for being very
public about his love for Jesus.
And he was not alone in being the recipient of
hatred in that regard. So here's according to a recent study,
this is from Open Doors. A recent study found that
every month, an average of 373 Christians are killed for
(27:43):
faith-related reasons. That's 373 Christians killed for faith-related reasons around
the world every 30 day cycle.
The same resource found that each month, 640 churches or
Christian buildings are burned or attacked. 640 churches or Christian
buildings burned or attacked each month, while 395 Christians are
(28:06):
detained without trial.
Uh, back in 20, I believe it was 2018, Newsweek reported, quote,
Christian persecution and genocide is worse now than any time
in history, and it's only gotten worse since. And, and
that includes being targeted, beaten, imprisoned, hung, crucified, bombed for
(28:30):
being in Christ. Now,
We live in a cultural moment where fear sort of
drives millions.
And, and let me just say,
Instead of the chicken little complex, the sky's falling, you know,
the world's going to hell in a handbasket and, and
(28:52):
running in panic, Christians should be counterculturally fearless. We should
be counterculturally fearless because like I said in response to
the first question, we know who's on the throne. We
know who is the king of the entire universe. We
know that when Jesus was executed, when he was persecuted
to the point of being publicly murdered.
(29:13):
That God was on the throne and so I would
encourage Christians out there seeing the headlines, you know, another
church was shot up just this last Sunday. Do not
resort to fear, brothers and sisters, recognize Jesus is king. Mm,
Speaker 1 (29:28):
that's good. And just to.
Say it because I know people are wondering right now,
the people that were killed in that church, the attack
that happened at that church in, was it Michigan or yes,
so that was a Mormon church, so there would be
people that would say, well, you can't really include them
in this statistics.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
I mean.
Uh, in a technical level, that's absolutely true. Mormonism, we
could spend 3 hours talking about that, does have a
different Jesus, does have a different gospel, but the fact
of the matter is there are conservatives who are being
targeted in this country and around the
world.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
We'll talk more after the break.
Hey, we're back on Pastor's Perspective. Thanks so much for watching.
That's watching or listening. You can do either one because
(30:26):
we're on Facebook, YouTube and Instagram. That's how you can
watch us or you can listen on the radio or
on a podcast. We archive all of our episodes on Facebook, YouTube,
Apple Podcasts, and Spotify if you ever miss an episode. So,
so many ways to
Listen nowadays, so many ways to get your questions to
us too. Our favorite way is when you call in
to 888-564-6173. I'm Brian Perez here with Thad Williams, an
(30:52):
associate professor of theology at the Talbot School of Theology
at Biola University. He joins us today to answer your
questions at 888-564-6173.
Here's one that was sent in online anonymously, which is fine.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
real quick, I'm just thinking back to before the break, uh, that,
that brilliant question, uh, T sent it in. Yes, yes, um,
you know, how do we unite, how do we deal
with being harassed, censored, death threats, false narratives, all that stuff. I,
I do want to throw in just one more thought
that I think is particularly important in this moment with
(31:29):
all the headlines, um, that are playing out in real
time before us.
And that is, we saw at Charlie Kirk's funeral, what
was that 9 days ago.
One of the most powerful moments, I think in
United States history. And that was the widow, Erika Kirk,
(31:52):
standing up in front of last I read there were
hundreds of millions of people who witnessed Charlie Kirk's funeral.
And what did she say?
She said, according to Christ, he prayed, Father, forgive them,
for they do not know what they do.
So citing the direct words of Jesus as he's headed
to Skull Hill, as he's headed to his executioners, and
(32:15):
what is she citing those words for to say, oh, that,
that man, that young man.
I forgive him. Yeah, and I forgive him because it's
what Jesus would tell me to do and it's what
Charlie would do. And then she says, friends, we cannot
overcome hate with hate.
Only love can do that. Only love can drive out evil.
(32:39):
And so I would say one of the points throughout
church history where the church is strongest is when it's
on the receiving end of hate.
Henry returns hate with love. And so what do you
do when, um, you feel persecuted, when you feel like
the world's out to get you? Number one, do not cower.
Do not, do not shiver in in terror that, oh no,
(33:03):
remember who's on the throne? And like the early church
in Acts 4, pray that God would fill you with
boldness to continue speaking the word unabashedly, unapologetically.
And recognize that it is not hate, but the harder
we're hated, the harder we love back.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
So where do we draw the line on, like, uh,
turning the other cheek? Some pacifists out there might be
listening saying, wait a minute, if I get persecuted, I'm
just gonna say, hey, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
So, so recognize biblically, there is a distinction between church
and state. If you read Romans 13, it says that
one of the God-ordained roles of the state is to
bear the sword, to strike fear into the hearts of
evildoers and criminals.
And so when it comes to, uh, say, Charlie Kirk's assassin.
(33:54):
It would be perfectly biblically consistent to say he should
get legal justice. He should endure the sword of the state, um,
but the church's role biblically in the New Testament is
not to be the sword bearer. And so we leave
it to the God ordained government to execute justice. What
(34:16):
our job as Jane and Joe Christians is to extend grace, forgiveness, mercy.
Um, now, in the context of somebody busts into your
house and is threatening your family, um, I think there's
solid biblical foundation because everybody bears the image of God,
and particularly Paul's words that if somebody doesn't take care
(34:37):
of his own family, he's worse than a non-believer, um,
that there is a biblical mandate for protection.
Uh, when you're faced with, you know, somebody who's threatening
lethal harm or, or threatening to hurt the people you love.
So all of those things can go together at the
same time if we're thinking biblically.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
All right, very good. All right, phone calls coming up,
but first, here's this anonymous question that I was gonna
do really quick. It is, uh,
My husband has been open with me about struggling with pornography.
For a couple of years, we didn't talk about it much,
but I recently found pornography on his phone. I wonder
what your advice is for how to approach it with him.
(35:20):
So it looks like uh she found it, so maybe
she has not.
Gone to him yet, at least not since she sent
us this email. Maybe she has since then, but
Yeah, to handle that.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Well, thank you to Anonymous out there, um, for sharing this.
I will just say this is one of the primary
issues I deal with, uh, in my ministry, uh, whether
that's with students at Byola University or I, I travel
the world and speak at churches and things, and pornography
addiction is just epidemic and not just out there in
the world, it's right there in the church and.
(35:57):
I had a real turning point in how I, I
dealt with this a few years ago that I think
would be encouraging as, as you talk to your husband
about this, and for, let's face it, thousands of listeners
out there who also either love somebody or you yourself
are struggling with pornography. And, and this is what happened
for years and years.
I would meet with students.
(36:19):
And they would share their battle and I would say, OK, well,
let's get a software filter. Let let's download something like
I think it's Covenant Eyes is a really good one.
let's do that. Let's get you in an accountability group. Um,
let's do steps A, B, and C.
(36:39):
And it just seemed like every week they'd come back
and be like, yeah, didn't really work. I, uh, I
put the filter on, I turned my head and typed
in some random code, and within a day became a
world-class hacker and managed to find a way around it.
Like it didn't really get to the root problem.
And then I had a student, this was, uh, about
(37:01):
10 years ago now.
And he came to me, he, he wrote an email
where he just divulged with a lot of vulnerability. This
has been a battle for 10 years, I've tried accountability groups,
I've tried internet software, filters, all the things, and it's
just worse.
What do I do? So he sends the email and
(37:22):
I don't respond.
So he sees me next week in class, I still
don't respond. Another week goes by, finally comes up to
me and says, Hey, Thad, what's the deal, man? That was,
that was the most vulnerable email I've ever written. Turns
out he sent it to Thaddeuswilliams@gmail.com, which is the one
email address I couldn't get.
Because some other Thaddeus Williams has it. So I says,
Speaker 1 (37:42):
another Thaddeus
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Williamson, another Thaddeus Williams. So he said, Oh, I feel terrible,
drop the J in there. Thaddeus Jilliams@gmail.com, and I promise
I'll respond. I just felt terrible for the student. Uh,
so he drops the J in there, sends the email.
We get together, uh, I think within 24 hours.
And
He shares all of his failed attempts. And I said, OK,
(38:06):
here's my advice to you, and this would be my
advice to Anonymous's husband too, despair.
Despair of your ability to make an inch of progress
against this sexual sin against your your addiction to lust,
just despair. You, you've tried on your own power, and
it's only getting worse. You're, you're fighting fire with gasoline.
(38:29):
You're trying to kill the flesh, the sin nature with
your own sin nature, and it's not working. And the
students sort of looked at me like, that's terrible advice.
You want me to despair? I said, yeah, but then
move on to step two.
How does Paul handle pornography or in first century Thessalonica,
it's the Greek word pornea, which is sort of a
general term for sexual immorality.
(38:51):
And in dealing with 1st century Pornea, he says, may God,
this is in 1 Thessalonians chapter 3 verse 12, he says,
may God cause you to increase and abound in love.
What's Paul doing here? A couple of things all at
the same time. Number one, he's identifying, he's diagnosing what
sexual sin, what Pornea really is. It's a failure to love.
(39:13):
It's treating an image bearer of God as just an image, right?
That's what pornography does. Takes an image bearer of God
with irreducible value, flattens them out into a two-dimensional image
so that they are now just a means to the
end of us getting some physical rush. That's a failure
to love.
Now what does Paul do? He says, may God cause
you to increase and abound in love. And then in
(39:36):
his second letter, 2 Thessalonians in the prologue, he uses
that he almost cuts and pastes the same language and says,
Thank God that you are increasing and abounding in love.
And so, I told this student that in my office
10 years ago.
And I said, let's pray as if God is actually
sovereign enough to cause you to increase an amount in love,
(39:58):
but let's pray the way Paul did for the Thessalonians,
and let's just see what happens.
And I realized as I'm telling the student that this
is a risky proposition because if it turns out it
doesn't work, then the student's gonna doubt all the theology
I've been teaching them all semester.
And so I committed to praying for him every day.
He committed to praying for himself, God caused me to
(40:18):
increase an abound in love. He walked into my class
the next week and
I gotta tell you, Brian, he looked like physically different.
Like before he sort of had this gloominess. It seemed
like in an old cartoon when a, uh, a rain
cloud follows you everywhere. You just seemed gloomy and despondent
all the time, couldn't really make eye contact. Well,
(40:41):
He walked into class that week and there was just
a glow, like what an old King James Bible would
describe as your countenance. Your countenance is the, the exterior
appearance of your soul's internal state. His countenance had shifted.
There was a glow. It was like looking at the
real him. And so before he even told me, I
knew what he was gonna say, he came up and
he said, Thad, it worked, um.
(41:03):
This was his exact words. He said, I'm so filled
up with the Holy Spirit that there's just no room
left for the pornography. I'm so filled to the brim
with the spirit. I'm enjoying Jesus so much, there's just
no room left for the pornography. And I will tell you, Brian,
for the last 10 years, every single semester, I have
heard that story again and again and again. The truth is,
(41:26):
What Paul says in Romans 8:13, By the spirit, put
to death the deeds of the sin nature. By the Spirit,
those three words, by the spirit, set true biblical spirituality
apart from every false self-help system, every false religion. So
my prayer for you, Anonymous and your husband, be praying for.
(41:46):
Him that God would cause him to increase and abound
in love. Uh, ask him to pray that for himself.
Ask him to realize the sin he's been trying to
kill on his own power. It's impossible to spair. But
then turn to the Holy Spirit who has the omnipotence
to drop bombs on those tanks of sin in his heart,
to cast down.
(42:08):
Our little pea shooter attempts, our little spit wad attempts
to take down the tank of sin, Radio in divine
air support, ask the Holy Spirit to kill the sin
for us, we can't kill for ourselves. And final thought,
two resources to have on your radar. You could read
through these with your husband. The first one is, um,
called The Mortification of Sin by John Owen, The Mortification
(42:31):
of sin by John Owen.
Uh, it's a little tricky to get into the Puritan
language at first, but stick with it. It's a book
I've given out more than any other in my 20
years of ministry. Um, it's a short read. I feel
like it's 80 pages or so, and it'll walk you
through this process of what's called mortification or sin killing. Uh,
(42:52):
and on that theme, there's another great resource called, uh,
Killing sin. Killing sin, that's by Carl Clawson.
Carl Clawson's killing sin, conquer the one thing that is
defeating you, two awesome resources.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
And the idea of getting more of the Holy Spirit
in you applies to all sin, all addiction, not just pornography,
just to, just to say that because there's people that
might say, well, that, I don't struggle with that, but yeah,
you've got other things that you're dealing with.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
So and why, why do those folks out there, including me,
why do we go back to the same sins, not
because we
We have to, not out of duty. We sin again
and again because we want to. We sin out of delight.
And so that clues us into the fact that our hearts,
taste buds are jacked up, that we find sin sweeter.
(43:42):
More savory than the infinite Creator of the universe. It's
not because sin is more satisfying than God. It's not.
It's that our hearts taste buds are all jacked up
because of the fall. And so I encourage our listeners
out there, pray, just say, Holy Spirit, here's my heart.
It's so jacked up that it can taste sin as
sweet when it's actually nauseating and disgusting.
(44:05):
And I can taste Jesus as dull when he's actually
infinitely satisfying. Holy Spirit, go to work on my heart,
recalibrate the taste buds of my soul so that I
find sin as nauseating as it truly is, and Jesus
as sweet and life-giving as he actually is.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
That's good. Thank you so much, Anonymous, for sending in
your question through the pastor's
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Anonymus,
Speaker 1 (44:27):
the
Speaker 2 (44:28):
Greek name, Anonymous.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
Let's go to the phones now. Here is Doreen in Corona.
Thank you, Doreen, for calling in to Pastor's Perspective today.
How can we help you?
Speaker 2 (44:40):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
So, um, it's not really a Bible question.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
Uh, I just
Speaker 1 (44:44):
want to work through
Speaker 2 (44:45):
something,
Speaker 1 (44:46):
but, um, I, I've struggled with suicidal
Speaker 2 (44:48):
thoughts for a
Speaker 1 (44:49):
long,
Speaker 2 (44:50):
very long time. I'm 35 and I've
Speaker 1 (44:52):
struggled with
Speaker 2 (44:53):
it.
Um,
Uh, for a while,
Speaker 1 (44:56):
but,
Speaker 2 (44:57):
um, something to, I thought about, I'm
Speaker 1 (45:00):
just trying to think, like
Speaker 2 (45:01):
coming to
Speaker 1 (45:02):
a conclusion on,
Speaker 2 (45:03):
I'm going to live with this for the rest of
my life, so I might as well just um think
of the best way why God has me, where he
has me. So, um, at a Bible study last week, um,
The girls were talking about like God coming and taking
them away, and then they were thinking like, oh well,
I don't really want them to because I don't want
to leave my family yet. I want to see them
(45:24):
get married and all of that and I didn't feel that.
I felt like I want God to take me now
and made me feel really bad as a parent, for one,
because I'm like, well, I would want to see my kids,
but I, I'm suffering more.
I love them, but I'm suffering more than anything. So
when I came into the conclusion and thinking is like, well, maybe.
(45:48):
I'm, I'm a very bold person and I will, I
will die for my faith. And I feel like that's
where this is me just thinking why I'm in the
place I am is that to be bold and to
do the things that um I could I could step
into faith and, and talk to people about Jesus and
(46:09):
not be scared to die. So I, I think when
I'm trying to um ask.
I is that the right approach, or am I just
grabbing at something that's not, that's not right? Do you,
do you get what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, I hear you, Doreen.
Thank you for sharing that. Let me just, um, right
out of the gate, say I get it.
(46:29):
I, uh, I shared my story on the show a
few months ago, but, uh, I was saved at the
age of 14 from a pit of suicidal despair where
I was having intrusive thoughts of suicide, and they were
just keeping me up at night and, um, were haunting,
and God was able to use that like a running
(46:51):
theme on this show was that that God's sovereign over
all of it, he never wastes any pain.
God was able to use that pain in my life
to make me like, like you're saying you're bold, um,
God was able through my suicidal thoughts to give me
the boldness that here I am 30 years after.
Um, getting saved and through the depth of that despair,
(47:13):
God did not waste that in my life. He's used
it to embolden me to draw many more people to
Jesus and so I want you to see yourself in
that light, Doreen, and that none of those thoughts are
wasted in God's universe. God is redeeming them. He is
using um them in your life to, to embolden you
to share the good news of Jesus. Now let let
me ask just a clarifying question.
(47:35):
Um, when you feel things are so unbearable, most people
tend to have their negative emotions expressed in one of
three sort of primary ways, either anger, uh, anxiety, or depression.
And so of those three, when you have suicidal thoughts,
do you find yourself, uh, more depressed, more anxious, more angry?
(47:58):
Um, I would say for sure anger, anger.
OK, and, and I would imagine that isn't a new, uh,
issue that's, that's probably been with you for a while.
Yeah, it was anxiety for a while, but then it
turned into anger.
OK, and, and feel free to not share any of
this online or out there for the, the interwebs or
(48:20):
the airwaves. Um, but have you focused at all on
what the root of the anger is and how specifically
the gospel speaks into that? Is, is that something you've
explored over the years?
Um, well, I think I get angry because of control.
When I don't have control of something, I get very angry. Um,
(48:43):
I don't have control over my life, obviously, um, over
my kid's life, and to that I feel like I
don't want to live because I don't have control over
those things. They're just. I just get very angry. Yeah,
that makes perfect sense. That, yeah, that.
That shows, shows me you have a whole lot of self-awareness. So,
(49:05):
so typically the way this is broken down is
Folks get depressed when they feel like something is just impossible,
and so they just sort of slink down into a
heap of despair. People get anxious when they feel like
something's uncertain. Like, I'm not sure how this is gonna go,
and so the fear creeps in and the anxiety. The
(49:25):
anger creeps in when people feel blocked, like there's something I,
I want, but there's something standing in my way, um,
something stopping me, and so that lack of control.
It is exactly, it, it just makes perfect sense why
you're feeling the anger. So here would be my encouragement
to you. Um, I, I met somebody very similar to,
(49:47):
to everything you've described, Doreen, a few years ago, and
She came at me with a long list of objections, um,
to Christianity. I'm, I'm curious, do you identify, are you
a Christian or not so much? Oh yeah, I'm, I'm, yeah, no, I'm,
I'm a full on.
(50:08):
OK, awesome. Well, well, this particular friend of mine wasn't.
And so she came at me with a long list
of objections to God, and she was saying, you know,
why would God allow this? Why would God do that?
And I just asked her, I said, if I could
prove to you God exists, would you then bow the knee?
And her answer within a split second was, no, not
a chance. And I asked her, well, why is that?
(50:31):
And she thought about it and she said, well, honestly, Thad, the,
the thought of bowing my knee of surrendering control.
To God that makes me feel panic. And so I
asked her, I said, and I, I'll ask you the
same question, um, for this, this woman I was speaking to.
She felt that by being in control, she felt safe.
(50:54):
By being in control, she felt like, um, she could
turn left in her life when she felt like turning left,
she could go right, she could accelerate, she could slam
on the brakes. She didn't wanna, uh, take the advice
of the great theologian Carrie Underwood, Jesus, take the wheel, right?
She didn't, she didn't want to surrender that control. And
so I just asked her the question I'll ask you.
(51:15):
Trying to be in control, trying to be in the
driver's seat, how is, how is that working out for you?
And when I asked this girl, she just sort of
broke down, but I'd ask you the same question, how
is trying to be in control? How's that working out
for you?
It's not. Um, I was actually, when I came to, uh, faith, I, I,
(51:37):
I was that girl like I didn't, that was my
first question is, if God was real, why would he
let these things happen and that's because of my um
When I was younger, things, bad things happened to me
and I didn't understand. I couldn't understand why. And so
now when I feel like I wanna, I, my, my
hardest thing to do is pray because I feel like
(51:58):
if I pray for something, God's gonna take something.
from me. Yeah, I hear you. Yes, if I ask
for God to keep my kids safe, it's gonna be
the opposite because now he's testing me. Yeah, I, I 100%
relate to that. I, I feel you, Doreen. Let, let
me just pass on this encouragement because I, that has
been an ongoing battle. I mentioned how Jesus saved me
(52:19):
from suicidal despair when I was 14, but that battle
for the steering wheel has been an ongoing thing for
me and please hear me when I say,
God is
Infinitely better at being God over your life than you are.
That's scary, but trust him, he's not just sovereign in
a way that he's mean, he's up there with a
(52:41):
magnifying glass trying to burn your life or or burn
your kids. The God who's sovereign over your life is
a loving father, Doreen. It's, it's just a final quick
thought here on this. My little boy, um, Henry.
When I throw him up in the air to catch him,
he is completely out of control.
(53:02):
And when I wrestle with him, he has no idea
what move is coming next. But he experiences the loss
of control as joy because he knows I'm a dad
who loves him. If some stranger came up and started
throwing my son in the air, he would be freaking
out because he doesn't know the guy and he is
not his loving father, right?
So as you yield control, understand, dear sister, you are
(53:26):
in the hands of an all powerful father who loves you,
loves your kids more than you can possibly imagine. And
so I'd encourage you also just one quick resource, check
out the book, um.
Finding Calm. This is by a mentor of mine who's
also dealt with severe anxiety and, and things like that,
suicidal thoughts over the years. Finding Calm by JP Morland, um,
(53:49):
that's a really, really great resource. And no, in the meantime,
I am praying for you and there are thousands of
people listening now who are also lifting you up in prayer, Doreen. Um,
I would also encourage you to seek out a good
solid Christian therapist. You shouldn't have to handle this alone.
Speaker 1 (54:05):
Thank you. Is it finding calm or finding quiet? Oh,
Speaker 2 (54:08):
Finding quiet, my bad. Finding Quiet by JP Morgan. And thanks, uh,
a million times over for being vulnerable with that. We're
praying for you. I promise you there is a light
around that at the end of that dark tunnel. I've
been there myself, um, God's got you,
Speaker 1 (54:23):
sister. Yeah, Doreen, thank you for being vulnerable with us
today on Pastor's perspective, because I think there's a lot
of people that think the same thing where
You know, if I ask God to protect my children,
he might do the opposite as as a test. That is,
that's exactly what Doreen said. But, so what are you
gonna do? You're not gonna pray for your children. God
still knows you love them, right?
Speaker 2 (54:42):
So, exactly. And I would just say, uh, for all
the folks out there who can relate to this, um,
read Psalm 107.
Make time, carve out some time, read Psalm 107 tonight.
It talks precisely about these issues that uh Doreen is
far from alone in.
Speaker 1 (54:57):
Yep, Psalm 107, verse 9, for he satisfies the loving soul,
and no, wait, hold on, for he satisfies the longing soul.
And oh, I can't think of it now. It's right
outside the door because, you know, our frequency is 107.9,
so we have Psalm 107.9 out there. I walk by
it all the time and now that I have to
quote it, I can't remember. I can look it up.
I have a Bible right here in front of me,
(55:18):
but I'm not going to. I got to remember it.
It's a challenge. All right, everyone who called in today,
thank you so much. Uh, we'll do it again tomorrow.
Thad Williams, great job, sir. Thanks for coming in. I
know you love coming in, and, uh, we need to
have you here more often. You can find out more
about Thad and Biola University on their website, Biola.
(55:39):
Dot EDU. Today's episode will be archived a little bit
later on Facebook, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify. And if
you've got a question for us, write it down so
you don't forget it and then call us tomorrow between
3 and 4. For Thad Williams, I'm Brian Perez, and
Pastor's Perspective was sponsored by Calvary Chapel Cost Mesa.
Speaker 2 (56:04):
It actually took
Popular Podcasts
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.