October 3, 2025 • 56 mins
Pastors' Perspective is a one-hour call-in program where listeners can call in and get answers to questions about the Bible, Christianity, family, and life. The program is live Monday through Friday from 3:00 PM - 4:00 PM Pacific. You can call 888-564-6173 to ask your questions.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Hello and welcome to another episode of Pastor's Perspective. I'm
Michael David in for Brian Perez on today's program, it's, uh,
Pacific Hills Calvary Chapel Day because we've got, uh, Pastor
Dave Rolf, the senior pastor there, and Justin Beaurac, associate
pastor at Calvary Chapel Pacific Hills, and you can get
details about them at CC Pacific.
(00:37):
Hills.org. Pastor Dave and Pastor Justin, welcome to the program.
Great to be with you, Michael. Hey, Michael. It's a
blessing to be with you guys. It's tremendous. And, uh, what, uh,
events do you guys have going on? By the way,
888-564-6173 is the number to call if you have a
question on the Bible, the Christian faith, or how to
live the Christian life. You can call and talk to
Pastor Dave and Pastor just.
(00:58):
And get the answers to your question again. 888-564-6173 is
the number to call, but, uh, like I was saying, uh,
are there any events coming up at uh Calvary, uh,
Pacific Hills Calvary Chapel that, uh, we need to know about? Well,
this weekend we have our men's breakfast, which there's no
charge for it. It's at 8 a.m.
(01:20):
And serve a really good breakfast, have some worship and
a short Bible study. I think I'm teaching the Bible
study this week, so. Oh, next weekend. I don't know,
the 11th, so that's why I have Justin. I'm senile, but.
And then that same day, our season classics, which is
what we call our senior adults fellowship, I, they named
(01:43):
it Sea Classics, so I wanted to call it final approach,
but people didn't like that. But, uh, that same day,
they will have a luncheon and a game day, and
so that's fine. And then what else do we have
coming up, Justin?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Um, I think one of our bigger events is our
fall festival at the end of the month. We have
that on the 31st, which is a Friday, and it's just, uh, uh,
every year we throw this big, I guess you can
call it a party, a celebration, we all get together and, uh,
serve a free meal. We have hot dogs, nachos, all
kinds of the, we hit all the major food groups, um,
we've got ice cream, we've got, uh, face painting, animals,
(02:21):
petting zoos, uh, bounce houses, trunk or treat for kids, just,
you know, just a great.
Opportunity for people or families or even if you're just
by yourself and you want you feel alone that night,
come on down, join us. It's a, it's a great time.
We have a we have an amazing time together and
Speaker 1 (02:37):
we don't charge anything for it. I, I just had
a guy call up and offer to pay for all
the food this year, so, um, that really helps, but
it's a blessing. That is fantastic. Well, you can get
all the information about the CC Pacific Hills events when
you go to CCPacificills.org/events.
And you can learn about the men's Bible study on
(02:58):
the 11th, the season's classic lunch and games on the 11th,
and the Fall Festival on October 31st. And again, that's
CC Pacific Hills.org. Um, also today is a, a somber
day for us, um, uh, it's a sad day for us,
but a happy day for him. Uh, it was 12
years ago today that Pastor Chuck Smith went home to
be with the Lord, and I know Pastor Dave you
(03:21):
knew Pastor Chuck really well. Yes, I did, and
It's still, I mean, it's hard to believe it's been
12 years, but, um, you know, it's, I knew when
Chuck would go to be with the Lord that the
world would never be the same, but he knew that too,
and I had, you know, he talked to me many
times about it. I spent half a day with him
(03:43):
the day before he died, and we talked about all
kinds of things and he was just adamant that.
You know, he said, I don't want you ever thinking
what would Chuck do. He, he said, you need to
listen to the Holy Spirit and see what the Holy
Spirit wants to do in the church.
And then we talked about Calvary Costa Mesa, and he's, and,
(04:05):
you know, he, he was ambivalent, of course, he didn't
want to leave, he had been here for so long,
but at the same time, he, he made me promise
and one reason I still come here to to Kwave
and one reason I still feel this is special to
come on this property is.
Chuck said, Dave, whatever happens, Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa will
(04:25):
always be my church and it'll always be your church.
Promise me that you'll never turn your back on our church.
And so for me, even though I've been 22 years
at Calvary Chapel Pacific Hills, and of course that's my church, but.
Always this place because of Chuck, it'll always be the
place where God just did amazing things in my life.
(04:48):
I met my wife here, um, because of Chuck. I mean,
it was Chuck's teaching that really drew me because he
was one of the only pastors I heard that seemed
sincere and wasn't putting on a performance and
And so the Lord brought me here and my kids
grew up here, and so I'll always have special memories
(05:09):
of this place and I know that his, you know,
Chuck's touches on everything as we, I, I used to do.
Pastor's perspective with Pastor Chuck for about 10 years together
and over Christmas, they re-ran a couple of our shows
that we did together and again it was just, it's like, wow,
it feels like 100 years ago, but it also feels like.
(05:33):
It was, it's like yesterday, um, how he impacted our
lives and didn't want to promote himself. He really wanted
us to, to follow the Lord and to listen to
the spirit and do what God wants. And so I
know that Chuck is looking down and after 12 years,
and I'm sure there'll be things that we do that
(05:55):
he's critical of, but at the same time, I know
he knows.
It's the roots that he's sunk into the soil that
has produced ministry all over the world. And so that's
something to celebrate. Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, tremendous man of God,
and he just, uh, taught the word for so long,
so faithfully, baptized so many people. I'm one of the
(06:16):
5 trillion people he baptized down in Pirate's Cove, so, yeah,
just a tremendous man of God and he's definitely missed,
but his influence is felt even all the way.
To this day. So, uh, that's right. We, we, we
celebrate his 12th year in heaven now, so we're thankful
for that. We miss him here, but we're happy for
we miss him here, but we're happy for him at
the same time. Well, Chuck used to always say about
(06:37):
people when they would die that heaven is richer, earth
is poorer, but heaven is richer, and I think that's true. Yeah,
he's missing here, but heaven has so much more to
offer now. Uh, yes, absolutely, absolutely, tremendous man of God.
Uh, we missed Pastor Chuck, but we're happy for him. Um, again,
(06:58):
888-564-6173 is the number you need to call if you
want to talk to Pastor Dave or Pastor Justin. Again, 888-564-6173.
We'll go to the calls in just a few minutes,
but we'll start with those Facebook questions so you can
send to us at facebook.com/pastors perspective, but we do prefer
to hear the sound of your voice, so call us 888-564-6173.
(07:24):
The first one comes from someone who is anonymous, and
what they write is this. Uh, they said, I'm a
part of a wonderful church community, medium to large in size.
I currently volunteer in several ministries. However, I've noticed that
it's often the same small group of people who step
up to serve, and I'm beginning to feel burnt out.
(07:47):
While I know there's a real need, and not many
others are getting involved.
Is it OK to step back from some of my commitments? Uh,
what would you say, Pastor Dave?
It's OK for you to do only what God tells
you to do. You should never be feel pressured to
do anything and, and, you know, we're not to be
(08:10):
people pleasers, we're to please God only.
And so, uh, and at the same time I understand
in churches you're desperate for people to do all kinds
of things we, I think sometimes we feel pressured as
a church that we need to offer all these ministries
and so if you're gonna offer all those ministries, someone
(08:32):
has to run them but for most of history church
didn't have a bunch of ministries. Church was.
A church service and that was basically it that's been
the church through most of history but we've created this
um idea of church as being this complicated, um, intricately
(08:54):
involved and interwoven programs and as soon as you're offering
a whole bunch of programs, then you're stuck having to
staff those programs.
But the only way people will learn the difference is
if you don't let people pressure you into doing that.
So because your attitude will end up going downhill if
(09:15):
you're doing too much, and then you can't really do
what God has called you to do with the heart
and the attitude that you want. It's God's problem if
if it's his program, he's gonna to staff it. He's gonna.
To make it happen and if at any point we
you don't have like I've sometimes said if if we
end up without children's ministers then children will come into
(09:37):
church no problem if we don't have, if we can't
do a particular ministry if we if if we can't
do our coffee ministry, you just have to buy your
coffee before you come to church, um.
It's, I, I think it's a real mistake, and the
sad thing is the most faithful people end up being
pressured to the point where now they can't really enjoy
(10:00):
serving the Lord because they're feeling like they have to.
So definitely say no to.
Anything that you don't feel God leading you to do
and don't feel the burden of I have to make
this happen or the world's crashing down. God's not wringing
his hands all worried about how he's gonna get all
his stuff done. God's fine.
(10:23):
Very true, very true. Great answer, great answer, Pastor Dave. Uh,
thank you for that message from Anonymous on Pastor's perspective
on uh the Facebook page on Instagram, Facebook, excuse me, uh,
this one's from Instagram, this is from Alexander. Alexander writes,
Hey pastors, uh my name is Alex and I love
your guys' radio station.
I had a question that I would love for you
(10:45):
guys to answer. What are your thoughts on killing in
law enforcement? If it is protecting your life or another
human life, is it justified? Pastor Justin, what would you say?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah, I think, um, obviously when it comes to killing,
it's a pretty serious issue, and it's not something to
be taken lightly, but we often kind of come to
it as Christians and go, well, God says in the
10 Commandments, not to murder, not to kill. And that
word there is actually, you know, the word for murder,
it means an intentional taking of an innocent life. Um,
(11:20):
but in the very same law, he tells you, look,
if people murder, you need to take their life. And
so God obviously had a system built in where
Um, in order to kind of keep checks and balances,
there were going to have to be a system where
lives were taken. And so, when you find yourself in
law enforcement or in, in, in military, there are going
to come those situations where, you know, based on the
(11:43):
knowledge that you have, I wouldn't just say you're excused
to kill no matter what, if you, you know, we
write off what the Nazis did if, you know, if
we could just say, well, whatever your government tells you
to do, you need to do it.
And so there is a, there is a, a certain
level where you do have knowledge involved, and if it's
something that with your knowledge, you know, you're taking the
(12:04):
life of an innocent person, I would say you probably
need to step back from that, but, um, at the
same time, God goes, look, you have to have something
that's gonna keep this society running, um, people safe, people protected,
and in those instances, you know, he, he definitely makes
allowance for it in the Old Testament law.
And uh the way they protected themselves in the Old Testament. So, yeah,
(12:26):
I think, you know, it's something that's warranted and needed
at times, if you're going to protect others.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yeah, and you have throughout Old and New Testament, you
have all the way to Revelation, you have God ordering
or performing killing of all kinds of people who are
on the wrong side, who, if they aren't killed, they
aren't stopped and, and then good people become victims. Jesus
even told his disciples when persecution started, he goes, if
(12:58):
you have two coats, sell one of your coats and
buy a sword.
That wasn't for, you know, cutting, cutting up their meat
at dinner time, it was for protection and so it, it,
it's a more complicated and interesting discussion as to what
constitutes a legitimate use of force and what level of
(13:18):
force is justified in a particular situation.
Um, that's not easy, but certainly, you can't argue that,
you know, that no use of force can be good
because then you end up impugning God Himself.
Absolutely. All right, great question from Alexander on Instagram. Again,
(13:38):
888-564-6173 is the number to call. We'll go to the
calls in just a few minutes. Um, let me get
at least one more, uh, Facebook question, and this comes
from Bree, and she writes, a question for you about
the mark of the beast in Revelation. I know the
Bible says that you should refuse to take the mark.
(13:58):
Um, uh, I know the Bible says, should you refuse
to take the mark, you will be cut off from
buying or selling. I am now hearing news of this
digital ID that could be mandatory soon, and I'm hearing
that if you do not use the digital ID, your
bank account will be closed. I'm very worried. I want
(14:19):
to be wise. I don't want to simply brush this off.
The end of days are bound to happen eventually.
So what's your thoughts on this? I'd rather be mentally
prepared for the worst, uh, just by the off chance
the rapture does not occur. I'd rather be mentally strong.
What would you say to Bree, uh, Pastor Dave? You know,
I would say that people get paranoid about like the
(14:42):
mark of the beast. It it's really clear, the mark
of the beast, whatever it is, we don't know what
it is, if it somehow it has to do with numbers,
but that could make it anything.
Um, it's people who are choosing to worship the beast.
You can't accidentally take the mark of the beast. And
uh as long as I've been a Christian since the 70s,
(15:03):
I've had people who said that, oh, barcodes or the
mark of the beast, you should never buy anything with
a barcode on it or, you know, then computers. I
remember when I bought the first computer that.
Calvary Chapel had, people are like, oh, that's the mark
of the beast, that's opening up the mark of the beast. Um, no,
the mark of the beast is when you make a
specific commitment to worship the Antichrist. And even then it's
(15:28):
not clear that you couldn't decide to then accept Jesus
and worship him. People have differences of opinion on that.
But you can't accidentally take the mark of the beast.
It certainly isn't gonna happen because you're using your Apple
Watch to purchase, you know, things with Apple Pay or something. It,
it isn't the mark of the beast is not about
(15:50):
a system, it's about your heart and worship, and so
maybe a system will make it easier for
The beast to the Antichrist to pull something like that off,
but you can't, uh, in the same way, you just
can't turn back progress. Obviously, computers, artificial intelligence, things like
(16:12):
that make some of the things that have been predicted
more feasible, but you can't fight the fulfillment of scripture
by turning back technology because where people used to think, oh,
computers are terrible, look at how many people look at.
Many people are listening to us answer Bible questions right
now on their computers or on their phones or have
(16:35):
access to later on listening to the program later and
listening to the best Bible teaching that's available in the
world anytime they want anywhere they want. And so, you know,
if you know you meant it for evil, God still
means it for good. He'll he'll use whatever uh develops
and whatever happens, so.
(16:56):
Yeah, don't, don't worry about the mark of the beast.
Don't ever decide to bow down and worship the Antichrist. That's,
that's the whole point of
that.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Well, that and, I think also, it's like, like Paul says,
you've been sealed with the Holy Spirit and greater is
he that is, as John first John says, greater than
he that's in you than he that's in the world.
And I think there comes that that element where you
have to be able to trust God more than you
trust whatever else is going on in this world and go,
you know what, he's sealed me.
He's got me wrapped up in this, like, I'm, I'm
(17:28):
not gonna accidentally take this thing and oops, now I've
slipped out of his hand, you know, as Jesus said, I, I,
nobody's plucking you out of my hand. And so there
is this confidence that the scriptures gives us that it's
not just, oh, are you gonna make a bad choice, oops,
are you gonna mess this up. It's like, no, God's
got you, and you can kind of, instead of being
(17:49):
worried about those things on the horizon, you can kind
of
Feel confident that he's greater than all that, you know,
he's got you. And, and I think kind of to
back up what Dave says, we just kind of see
these fads come and they go, and it was like
when I was younger, I remember everyone used to scare
me and told me not to get ever don't ever
get a tattoo, you know, and let alone a tattoo
on your forehead or your hand, which the forehead was
(18:11):
kind of an easy one, but the hand, it was like,
you know, and then it goes on to the next
and the next and the next, and obviously these might
be precursors to what might happen during that time, but
You know, uh, it all comes back to who are
you gonna trust in more than that, you know, what
God sealed you with and done in you, or, you know, these,
these rumors or these things going on, and so I
(18:32):
think you can kind of rest easy that it's not
something you're gonna be duped into.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Great answers from Pastor Dave and Pastor Justin here on
Pastor's Perspective, and thank you, Bree, for your question that
you sent to us at facebook.com/pastors perspective. We're gonna go
to the phones now again 888-564-6173 888-564-6173 is the number
to call. We're gonna start off with Kimmy in Garden Grove. Kimmy,
(18:59):
welcome to the program.
Hi, how are you? Good.
Um, I, I have a group of friends and we
like to go to the mosque. Friday is like mosque
day and talk to people out front if they want
to talk. And this gentleman, this Muslim gentleman was born
in India and he said, oh, Christianity is just a retelling.
(19:21):
of Hinduism, you're really just Hindus. Even the Trinity is
a retelling of the Hindu gods.
And it's nothing new under the sun. Basically, you guys
just copied Hindu doctrine and stuff. And so, anyway, if
you could help me with some kind of an answer
to that claim, I would be very grateful. All right,
(19:42):
that's a good question, Cammy. What would you say, Pastor Dave,
to that?
Well, I would say first of all there's so much
different in Hinduism than there is in Christianity. It's kind
of ridiculous to suggest that because we believe in one
God manifest in three persons that that's the same as
Hindus who uh who have.
(20:03):
Tons of gods all over the place and so the
reason uh a Muslim would say that is because they
believe that they are truly, you know, the only faith
that is actually monogamous, you know, that only believes in
one monotheism, that just one god, but we don't believe
in three gods, but Hinduism believes in thousands of gods,
(20:26):
so
Uh, it's certainly now at the same time, you'll certainly
find similarities between all religions, so the same thing goes
for Islam. It there are things that they believe and
it's much newer religion than Christianity or Judaism, and yet
they certainly borrow elements from both, and originally with Islam,
(20:50):
they really tried to be accepted.
As a version of Christianity and and to this day,
I often find the Muslims who I talked to are
wanting to say, well, you know, we believe that Jesus
was a great prophet, um, and they want to turn
us like you guys should be joined with us against
the evil Jews who killed Jesus. And so, you know,
(21:13):
people can play those games, but in reality, when you
look at the idea that Christianity, um,
You know, is rooted in Judaism that goes all the
way back to the beginning and that we recognize the
entire Old Testament as being God breathed and the New
(21:34):
Testament that sets us off as quite a bit different than.
Um, you know, those who would believe in a ton
of gods and uh, and all sorts of wild religious ideas.
So Christianity is definitely distinct. Besides that, it has the,
the people who follow.
(21:56):
Christianity, uh, for the last 2000 years. They, they believe
basically the same things moving all the way through the
history of Christianity. There aren't like a bunch of brand
new ideas that come up. There are some different emphases
and things like that, but
It's not Christianity isn't a religion that's evolving like most
(22:18):
other religions, and the biggest difference is between Christianity and
every other religion is Christianity is based on what God
has done for us.
Every other religion, you know, whether, you know, it's Islam
or whether it's the Hindus or Buddhists who don't believe
(22:39):
in any gods or every other religion is trying to
say what you need to do to get to God
and Christianity.
Says what God did in order to get to you.
And so those the the core of Christianity is the
incarnation is God becoming a human and then rising from
(22:59):
the dead after he died for our sins. There's no
other religion that that even comes close to something like
that and that's the.
Part of Christianity. So you can find certain things that
we might have that are similar, but, uh, at the
same time, it's like saying that, that, uh, you know,
the American culture is the same as the Chinese culture
(23:21):
because we all eat, or, you know, we breathe or
something like that. Sure, there are similarities, but
The distinctions of Christianity are truly unique. Yeah, that's very true. Now,
Pastor Justin, have you ever had to share your faith
with a Muslim before? And if so, how'd that
go?
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Yeah, with a Muslim, yeah, it, you know, I looked
for common ground, right? You know, and we started in
the Old Testament and we had a long lengthy conversation
as we went through Abraham and, and things began to branch,
but I find that most people at a certain point, um,
The guy I was talking to, it was more of
an inherited religion identity than it was something he actually
(24:01):
kind of really believed in and truly understood. And, and
at that point, you know, that's where Jesus is so
radically different. It's like Christianity is not something that can
just be inherited. It's not something you can just kind
of flippantly just go, well, that's what my people are,
that's what it comes down to a real person and
a real relationship with Jesus and
Uh, in encountering that in, in through faith. And so it's,
(24:26):
you know, I won't say that the conversation led to
him accepting Jesus in that moment, but it led to
further conversations in that there's something radically different when you say,
look at the end of almost every other religion and
every other religious system is uh is of you sitting
there trying to appease God, you sitting there trying to,
you know, like a Hindu, trying to work your way
(24:47):
up in the afterlife and reincarnation and
Um, and Christianity, it's so radically different in that Jesus
Christ came to meet you where you're at and to
say you couldn't do it. Go ahead. Whatever system you
wanna try, good luck, because they're all gonna kind of
lead to you just going, I don't know if I'm
good enough, I don't know if I'm gonna make it.
I don't know if God's happy with me. And so
(25:09):
that's where our conversations radically differed, you know, and I
could try and prove him wrong in so many different areas,
but
In the person of Jesus, it's, it's so different than
any other, like Pastor Dave was saying, any other religious system.
And so, that's really where I try to steer those
types of conversations to to Jesus, because if he is
(25:29):
who he says he is, and he is, you know,
Everything that the scriptures claim about him, then there is
something radically different that we have as Christians than any
other religion and, uh, it's all found in him
Speaker 1 (25:41):
so also Cammy, I would suggest I don't know if
you're if you're talking to Muslims, there's a book that, um,
a pastor Sammy Tannago wrote called Glad News God Loves You,
my Muslim Friends, and it's designed toward approaching.
Them and Sammy's used that for years and a lot
(26:02):
of other people have as well to, um, you know,
to be able to communicate with Muslims in a real
positive way. So I would suggest getting that and finding
out if that's something that you might want to incorporate
into uh some of your discussions as well.
Absolutely, you can get that uh book, Glad News, God
(26:22):
Loves You, My Muslim Friend on Amazon and uh wherever
my books are sold. By the way, Cammy, did that
answer your question?
Yeah, yeah, thank you. Can you pray for him? The
Muslim's name was Ali. Can you please pray for him? Yes, absolutely. Lord,
we just left Ali up to you, and I know
(26:43):
he isn't just a guy with a view. He's a
a a man who you sent your son to die
for him.
That you love him as much as you love anyone else.
So God, I pray that even as he, the fact
that he's making sort of ridiculous arguments just shows a
(27:04):
level of desperation that probably you're getting to him. And
so Lord, just continue to, to touch him, help him
to see personally through the love that Christians that he's
met have had for him.
That he knows that if the shoe was on the
(27:24):
other foot, that wouldn't be the case. And so Lord,
please use whatever it is that you need to use
to reach him with your love. So help him to
see the truth as only you can. I know your
Holy Spirit is working on him or he wouldn't have
even had that conversation.
So please just minister to him, Lord, in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen.
(27:48):
And thank you, Cammy, for calling us at uh from
Garden Grove at 888-564-6173. Uh, let's see if we can
squeeze one more in before the break. Uh, this is
Alison from Mission Viejo listening on the Kwave app. Allison,
welcome to the program.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Hi, thanks for taking my call. I just wanted to, um,
about class action lawsuits. When we get invited to those,
I just heard a really great teaching on 1 Corinthians
chapter 5 from Dave Ross on Sunday. Thank you, Pastor Dave. And, um,
(28:27):
But we get invited to these kind of awkward class
action things or we get kind of notified that we're
gonna get some, you know, money. Are we as Christians
supposed to just deny those, or even if it's legitimate,
do we just move on and, and don't even bat
(28:47):
an eye at it? What's your take on these, uh,
class action lawsuits? I know the only winners in the
end are, are really these attorneys, but
When we're truly affected, though, at the same time, um,
and we get invited to them, and you kind of
feel like it is sort of legitimate, but I don't
agree with suing.
(29:08):
Anyhow, I'm gonna let you guys talk.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Well, actually, I'm gonna see if we can answer that
on the second half. I think we are up to
our break, Alison. So, Alison, please stay on the line. Uh,
Pastor Dave and Pastor Justin will answer your question on
the second half of the program about class action lawsuits and, uh, also,
if anyone else wants to call.
Uh, we have a few lines open. 888-564-6173. Pastor Dave
(29:34):
Rolfe is here as well as Pastor Justin Betora. So
give him a call now 888-564-6173-888-564-6173, and we'll see you
on the second half of the program. Stay with us.
(30:15):
Hello and welcome back to the second half of Pastor's Perspective.
I'm Michael David in for Brian Perez on today's program
we have Pastor Dave Rolf and Pastor Justin Betore from
Pacific Hills Calvary Chapel. And before we went to the program,
before we went to the break, uh, we were talking
to Alison, uh, who called us at 888-564-6173. And, uh, Alison,
(30:38):
are you still there?
I am here. All right, uh, I'm gonna have Pastor
Dave answer your question. What is the perspective he has, um,
as well as Pastor Justin, uh, when they're invited to
a class action lawsuit, uh, like it talks about in
1 Corinthians chapter 5. Pastor Dave. Yeah, well, as I
(31:01):
talked about on Sunday when I taught on that chapter, um,
Paul kind of lets him know.
A lot of lawsuits aren't worth it, you know, sometimes
you're better to take a loss and so there's that
principle there, but I also think that
A lot of these class action lawsuits are phishing schemes. They're,
(31:23):
if they can get people to click and say, yeah,
I'll join in that lawsuit, then you end up really
what they are is sophisticated data mining operations where they're getting, uh,
you know, personal information from you. They may even, you know, you, you,
they may ask you for a bank account number that
(31:43):
they're gonna send money to your bank account.
And, but really, some of them might be legit. I mean,
there's always class action lawsuits that the most recent one
I got a few days ago was for Amazon Prime,
and I've had them for all kinds of other things,
but
To me, it's, you know, you have to ask yourself,
(32:03):
is this really worth the trouble because you have to
fill out forms and then they're bugging you and then
your name is on a sucker list for the rest
of your life. And so to me it's, you know,
I don't want to participate in sophisticated data mining operations,
and I also just think, you know, if I, if
(32:26):
I really felt like Amazon had ripped me off so bad.
I, I would have sued him myself if I really
thought it was that bad, but, um, I could take
him to small claims court and try to get my
$5 back, but it's a complete waste of time. And
most of the time in most lawsuits, and sorry for
I'm thankful for some of my friends who are called
(32:48):
to be attorneys and some of them really help people
who desperately need help, but for me,
It would have to be something would have to be
pretty awful, and I'd have to feel like I'm accomplishing
something pretty good for me to go through the trouble
of all the paperwork and the hassles and the stress
and everything else that goes with the lawsuit. So,
(33:10):
To me, I would say, stay out of lawsuits unless you,
you know, desperately have a need, you've suffered something, you're
losing your house or something like that. If somebody, you know,
got a few bucks from you or did something wrong,
ask yourself, what's my time?
Worth. So that's kind of the way I would look
(33:30):
at it. I would never say you shouldn't do it,
but I would say for me, I haven't seen one
yet that I thought, oh, I might get $25. That
would be great. It's just not my time's worth more
than that to me and my peace of mind. What
do you think, Justin?
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Yeah, the $5 I got one time from an iPhone,
one that I followed through was not worth the hours
and hours of filling out paperwork and probably the hundreds
of thousands of phone calls I got, you know, as
I was data mine from that. But, you know, I
don't think there's any sinful thing to do against it. Obviously,
Paul in 1 Corinthians 5 is talking about Christians working
it out amongst themselves and
(34:09):
I think, you know, if you can, like Pastor Dave
was teaching, you should, um, work it out amongst yourselves,
but you don't have to feel guilty if you're, if
you're bored or you have an extra phone lying around
or a number you don't care that gets blown up
by all these things and you want to go after,
you know, the $10 or $15 then, then go for it.
But I mean, Paul just down the way over in
(34:29):
1 Corinthians 7 says, you know, hey, the time is short, so, uh.
Don't pay attention to these things that don't matter. And
in the end, I think most of these class action lawsuits,
when you look at the big scope of your life
and what truly matters, you're gonna go, yeah, that's, I
could have I could have spent my time in a
much better way. And so that's kind of how I
look at it. It's like, sure, I guess if, if
(34:50):
that's all I got going on, but there's a lot
better things that I think God has for you to
spend your time on and, and do, and so.
Yeah,
Speaker 1 (34:59):
very true. Allison, did that answer your question?
Speaker 2 (35:03):
I love those responses, and, um, I do believe they
were data mining for sure because I, I actually, as
I was going down the rabbit trail, I halted, and
I said, wait a second, I don't feel comfortable giving
all this information out over the phone. They were like, oh, OK. But, um,
(35:24):
Yeah, I had to do with actually when I had
ovarian cancer, which is legit, um, but it's just interesting
to see all these
Numerous amounts of advertising going on on Instagram. So, yeah,
I believe the only ones in the end that win
are the attorneys in this situation. So, yeah, I appreciate that.
(35:47):
There are better ways for me to spend my time
than to than to run down the rabbit trail, even
if it might be more than $5 or $10 but
Yeah, I appreciate your feedback. Thank
Speaker 1 (35:58):
you. All right. Thank you, Alison, for calling us from
Mission Viejo at 888-564-6173. Up next, we're gonna go to Honolulu,
Hawaii and talk to Cathy. Aloha, Cathy, welcome to the program. Oh, Aloha.
And how long for taking my call.
(36:19):
Absolutely.
How can we help you? I say something? 00, I
wanted to ask about, um, prayer.
I get
Um,
I, I talked to God all day, but I don't
get down on my knees. I'm almost as old as Dave.
(36:44):
I get on my knees, but it's not on purpose.
Only when I fall.
What I say about exercise.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Pray for hours and hours like that cause he can't
get up.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Oh, Justin's like, um, but I, I, but I talked
to him all day, but I don't, and I don't
have like a prayer list. I think I should probably
do that.
But, um, and I listen to K-wave almost 24/7. If
I'm awake, I'm, it's on. I'm, I'm asleep, it's on.
But, and then also in Revelation, it says you hear
(37:23):
it or you read it, you'll be blessed. So I'm, I'm,
those are my two little um
Things, and I pray all day. I talk, I pass
everything to the Father and I um
Just wanted to know if I'm doing it right.
What would you say, Pastor Dave? Well, you know, the
(37:43):
Bible says to pray without ceasing, and so I think
what you're doing, Cathy, by living your life with an
ongoing conversation with God.
Is certainly legitimate um at the same time you see
examples in the in the New Testament for instance of
Jesus going away getting off in nature in order to
(38:06):
pray and so there are certainly times when having a
special time of prayer that's a little bit different or
to gather people together to pray for someone who is
sick and.
There are a lot of examples of prayer being very
specific and deliberate, and there's prayer that happens during worship
(38:27):
and during a collective time together as you pray for
um someone who has particular needs. And so I don't
think it's an either or thing. I think it's a
both and.
I think that your conversation with God, that's all prayer
for sure, and I would never, uh, minimize that at all.
(38:49):
But at the same time, it wouldn't hurt you to
just ask, you know, sometimes like I'll start my day
and I'll sit before I do my workout, I'll, I'll
sit down and just close my eyes and I'll just go, OK, God,
what are a couple of particular things that you want
me to pray about today?
And certain things will come into my mind and so
(39:10):
those will be things that I especially want to pray for.
Then I also, when people ask me for prayer a
lot because I'm, whether it's I get emails from people
or phone calls or um you know on social media,
people say, hey prayer, people text me and say, oh,
pray for me. I'm going through the such and such.
(39:32):
I, I never say I'll pray for you without stopping
and praying for them right then because I don't know
if I'm gonna remember to pray for someone later. So
as soon as I hear someone ask for prayer, I
always pray for them right there at that moment, and
I do it even as we are, you know, here
(39:53):
on pastor's perspective when someone's asking for prayer. I'll just
pray a little prayer, um, silently to myself.
Um, for them, and same thing when I'm when I'm
driving in my car and maybe I'm listening to pastor's perspective,
I pray along with the people who are praying with those.
So there's always that immediate specific prayer life that I
(40:17):
think is important, but I think what you want, you
don't want your prayers to be artificial. You don't want
to be thinking of how to construct them and they
need to sound just right, and you need to say
thee and thou and
And oh, this has to, you know, I really need
to write this out in a really sophisticated way. It's
(40:37):
a conversation with God. So your running conversation that you
have with him throughout the day, um, you're aware that
you are in his presence for you to just go,
hey God, look at that, or oh God help that guy,
that's sad.
Uh, that's prayer, but I think also you can consider
uh specific legitimate needs that you may, um, think about,
(41:03):
for instance, the Bible says to pray for our leaders.
So that's something that.
You know, we should do periodically is just to think
about who are the political leaders of my county, my state,
my country, the world, and just lift them up in
prayer and ask God to, to, to minister to them
(41:24):
and through them. And so I, I think you can
do both. I, I like the fact that you're always
in connection with him, but I think it wouldn't hurt
to jot down, OK, what are some specific things that
I ought to pray about as well?
Pastor Justin?
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Yeah, I, I totally agree with that. I think, I
think the heart of praying without ceasing is having that
continual conversation, but at the same time, when the disciples
came to Jesus and they were like, hey, teach us
to pray, he goes, OK, you know, I'm not giving
you a formula, but it was a formula in some sense.
I'm saying this is, there is organization to this and
you can, you know, if you really want to communicate.
(42:03):
Um, some of the deeper things of your heart, you
might wanna kind of think it through and go, hey,
our Father who art in heaven, he would be thy name,
you know, and as you go through that prayer, you
realize Jesus was very specific about different areas, because he
had a little bit of organization there, and I think
sometimes our brains, even, even when I'm talking to the
Lord throughout the day, it just runs wild, it doesn't
hone in on something, and that can be good, but,
(42:26):
you know, there's other moments where it's like, no, I
know I really need to pray for something and it
and it helps to be a little bit
I don't want to say structured cause that word can
be so destructive in spiritual things, but in some sense
to order your brain to structure things and go, yeah,
you know, it's it's not just chaos here, Lord.
I will really want to lean in and pray for this,
(42:48):
and there's nothing wrong with that. Jesus taught us to
pray like that and gave us one of the greatest
prayers that I think any of us could ever model
our own prayers after, so.
You know, that's, it's kind of like a both thing
as Pastor Dave was saying, but you don't have to
shy away from it or feel like you're, you're, you're
being fake if you're, you're praying like Jesus taught us
to pray.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
And he said, uh, there's a danger in the structure
sometimes with prayers, because sometimes you get repetitious
Speaker 2 (43:13):
sometimes. Yeah, and that, I mean, that's what he warned
right against in in Matthew 6 when he was giving
the Lord's prayer, he warned against the Pharisees who, you know,
they had specific formulas that they prayed and they, you know,
did it to be seen and, and then he gives
you a formula for prayer, but it wasn't to be
a formula like them. It was something you were supposed
to take and make it personal with him and and
(43:34):
and make it private with him. And so,
That's just kind of why I, I, I, yeah, the,
the structure part maybe comes in a little bit.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
And even in another gospel, he taught in a different context,
the Lord's Prayer almost identically, and yet he's saying, don't,
it's not vain repetition.
It's not vain repetition because it's repetitious, it's vain repetition
repetition because it's vain. You're not really intending it. So yeah, I,
(44:03):
I think that I know for me being growing up
here at Calvary Chapel and we used to always sing
the Lord's prayer at the end of the services, um,
until at one point then, um, Pastor Chuck heard.
The song with the Levitical blessing, the Lord blessing and
keeping he started doing that at the end instead, but
(44:23):
for many, many years we sang the Lord's Prayer and
every time I hear that song, it still touches my heart.
It still brings back those memories and so, yeah, he,
he obviously isn't against structured praying, but at the same time, uh,
and then you see, you read John 17 and you
(44:43):
see Jesus prayer there and it's a lot more free
flowing and
And a lot more complex and so the, the important
thing is that you pray. It's not even the most
important thing that you get it all right, but at
least start doing it and then God will end up
the Holy Spirit intercedes for us and he will lead
us into tailoring our prayers the way that God would
(45:07):
have us to do it. All right, Cathy, does that help?
Ah, that so helps. That helps because I'm, um, structure
is not my strong point, but I wrote down John 17.
I'm gonna read that one because I feel like I'm
just
Reiterating the same thing.
(45:28):
All right. Well, fantastic. All right, well, thank you for
calling us from Honolulu at 888-564-6173. We're gonna go from
Honolulu to LA and talk to Mike. Mike, welcome to
the program.
Hello. Hello.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
OK, just making sure this mic,
Speaker 1 (45:48):
a lot of mic up there.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
Uh, first and foremost, I just wanna say thank you
to everybody in the program involved. I just everybody thank
you for taking the time to do this for all
of us. It is appreciated.
Um, what I would like to ask about though, is
essentially hearing the voice of God and how we know
it is the voice of the Lord as opposed to
being our voice, you know, like a worldly voice or
(46:11):
the enemy, especially because in Isaiah 53, I believe it is,
or 59, I apologize, uh, talks about sin, separating us
from the Lord, and all men are sinners. We all sin.
You know, there's that way we can avoid.
So I, I just wanna know like how it is.
That I can be assured that I am, or what,
(46:32):
how you guys perceive assurance and that
Speaker 1 (46:35):
what you're hearing is coming from the
Speaker 2 (46:37):
Lord.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Yeah, that's a tough question. I mean, cause I mean,
if I hear a voice telling me I need to
move to New York, is that God or is that
Satan or is that me? How can I tell? Yeah,
and it's tricky too because there are all kinds of people,
and obviously,
The devil loves to make people think that what he
is saying is the truth. He's the father of lies
(47:00):
and so a lot of times people believe that what
they're hearing is something that's the truth when really it's
exactly the opposite of that. So, I mean, and I mean, personally,
my father.
When I was growing up and then my, my younger
brother as well, um, they were schizophrenic, and they both
(47:23):
loved God, would do anything for God, and yet they
heard voices that they were convinced were from God. And
so then they would do outrageous things because they thought
God told them to do it. So it's a real
legitimate question, Mike, you know, that we should be concerned about.
And so I think.
You know, when you, when you hear something that you
(47:46):
think is coming from God, first of all, compare it
to scripture, see if it's something that the scripture would
support or would even contradict.
Um, I think also it's a good in a multitude
of counselors, things can be confirmed. So I think to
have people in your life who, especially if it's not if,
(48:10):
you know, if I'm driving along and I just for
some reason I feel like I'm gonna drive a different
path home.
Today it's not gonna hurt anything. It might be God,
it might not. There's nothing really at stake, and maybe
I see someone that I'm supposed to pray for. There
are times when I've been driving along and I felt
like God told me there was a a homeless guy
(48:30):
on the side of the road, and God told me
to just go give him some money, and so I
would give him the money.
But at the same time, you're like, I don't know
that it's God, but it doesn't matter. I'm doing something
that's nice and I'm doing it for the right reasons and,
and I'm not risking anything, but, you know, it would
be different if, if God said take that guy and
(48:52):
let him come and live in your house or something
like that. You'd want to hear from God and go, OK,
would that line up with scripture? Yeah, I could. Um,
so then is there somebody who's really squared around, solid Christian.
That you can bounce it off of, that by 2
or 3 witnesses, you could confirm that it was the Lord.
(49:12):
And so it would be good for somebody else to pray.
When we think about doing something different at our church
or trying something else and
You know, we don't just make, you know, singular decisions,
we quite often get a few people together and talk
about it and, uh, just today, Pastor Justin here and
(49:34):
I are talking about, OK, after we finish going through
the book of First Corinthians, what are we going to
study next? Um, neither one of us just decides that,
we start bouncing around.
Looking how long has it been since we've taught on
this book and how and, you know, we just don't
jump into it and I'm not gonna say that God
told us, here's the next book we're supposed to go through,
(49:56):
but I think if we spend time praying about it and,
you know, thinking about it and processing it that ultimately
God's able to um speak to us without it being.
Um, a clear, dogmatic voice. See, like, faith is a
big part of this too is that in Hebrews 11,
(50:16):
it talks about faith being the substance of things hoped for,
the evidence of things not seen, that is, you need
faith when you don't have literal, obvious truth, and that's
the way, without faith that you can't please God. So
if God told me 100%, here's what you're supposed to do.
(50:37):
Then I wouldn't need faith. It would just be a
question of obedience, but as we grow in the Lord,
more and more faith is required because we're in situations
and we're not sure. So I have an idea. I
don't know if it's gonna be God or not, so
I pray about it, I'll bounce it off of other people.
I'll continue to consider it. I compare it with scripture,
(50:58):
see if it, if a scripture just pops out at
me and I go, whoa, that's real confirmation, or sometimes
I'll just, I'll be thinking about something.
And then I'll hear somebody on the radio and they're
teaching and something completely different, but a sentence that they
say is like, wow, that's exactly what I was thinking of,
or I'll see something will pop up on my social
(51:19):
media feed or, um, I'll read something somewhere in a
book and I go, wow, that's real confirmation. So it's
kind of a bit of a treasure hunt in a way. I,
God knows though, that if he needs me to do something,
he's gonna communicate it.
And so if I'm not clear on it, he'll tend
to stick with me. And so as long as I'm
(51:42):
not dogmatic and that's where mentally ill people, they're always
certain they know what they know and they don't care
what anybody else says that that's not healthy. A healthy
person is like, hmm, I'll consider that. I'll pray about.
That, um, maybe I'll try it and see what happens.
Then with that kind of a humility, you have a
(52:03):
greater chance of, of really sensing what God is leading.
And I've had a lot of people come and tell me,
you know, God told me such and such for you.
And sometimes it's just crazy stuff. Then other times I've
had people come up and go, Hey, Dave, I was
praying for you and I, I had this thought, I
don't know if it's God or not, but I was
(52:24):
just thinking this and.
I mean, I can never remember a time when somebody
was sure of themselves and I go, yeah, that was
really God. But a ton of times when people just said, hey,
I don't know, I had this thought, I don't know,
I just pray about it and I'm like, God, that
was exactly what God needed to tell me. And so
I think subtlety is important, but the scripture, prayer, multitude
(52:49):
of counselors, those are all kind of processes that I
would integrate into itike. All right, uh, Pastor Justin.
Speaker 2 (52:56):
Uh, second that. I mean, Paul said you have the
mind of Christ, and so obviously anything he's gonna speak
to you is gonna reflect that to some degree that
his nature, his character, you know, the fruit of the spirit.
And so automatically if I find myself somewhere out there
with something that's gonna hurt someone else with something I'm,
I'm saying, even, even if this it's the truth, it's
(53:18):
like I have to reevaluate how God wants me to
say that, you know, and
They're gonna be the things, most often it's the things
I don't want to say to another person that God
wants me to say, and the things I really want
to say to another person. Those are the times where
I'm like, yeah, those are the things I shouldn't say,
or at least sit on it until God really puts
it on my heart to say that. And so, um,
(53:39):
you know, when it comes to hearing from the Lord,
sometimes I think we need to make the decision all
at once, like, hey, he's speaking now, I gotta, I
gotta act on this, it's OK. It's like,
It, it can be a process where you're you're judging things, you're,
you're sorting it out, you're waiting, you're, you know, um.
You're allowing him the room to kind of further confirm
things to you, and I, I think that, you know,
(54:02):
sometimes we, we don't give ourselves that kind of space
and it's OK to do that, so.
Speaker 1 (54:06):
Yeah, I mean, Jesus spent the 1st 30 years of
his life on the earth and we don't know of
anything that he said. He didn't apparently teach anything. He
had one conversation when he was 12 with some theologians
and they were amazed. The rest of the time he's
just building stuff, you know, and then he just taught
for 3 years, so we shouldn't feel like we have
(54:27):
to just jump right to it. It's, you know, God
has his timing and he takes care of us and.
If we're, if we're wrong, he'll bring that to our
attention and, and we can, we can let it go.
But yeah, it's the big thing is, if I believe
God wants me to do something, am I willing to
(54:48):
do it? Because usually,
There are things that he wants me to do, and
I know he wants me to do them. I just
don't want to like being loving to people who I
disagree with or, you know, showing grace to those who
have hurt me or, you know, those are the kind
of things. I totally know he wants me to do it.
It's it's unambiguous, and yet I don't want to do that.
(55:09):
I don't want to pray for blessings on my enemies,
but I know that's true. Yes, very true, very true.
Great answers we heard today from, uh, Pastor Dave Rolph,
senior pastor of Pacific Hills Calvary Chapel, and Pastor Justin Betora,
associate pastor at Calvary Chapel Pacific Hills, uh, Mike from, uh,
(55:31):
LA County, thank you so much for your call here
on Pastor's Perspective.
And uh all the other people, Cathy from Honolulu, everybody else,
we really appreciate you calling. Um, we are going to, uh,
enjoy the weekend. We hope you enjoy yours as well.
Go to church, go to your home fellowship, be there,
be blessed, be a blessing, and, uh, we'll see you
on Monday on Pastor's Perspective. Good night.
Hello and welcome to another episode of Pastor's Perspective. I'm
Michael David in for Brian Perez on today's program, it's, uh,
Pacific Hills Calvary Chapel Day because we've got, uh, Pastor
Dave Rolf, the senior pastor there, and Justin Beaurac, associate
pastor at Calvary Chapel Pacific Hills, and you can get
details about them at CC Pacific.
(00:37):
Hills.org. Pastor Dave and Pastor Justin, welcome to the program.
Great to be with you, Michael. Hey, Michael. It's a
blessing to be with you guys. It's tremendous. And, uh, what, uh,
events do you guys have going on? By the way,
888-564-6173 is the number to call if you have a
question on the Bible, the Christian faith, or how to
live the Christian life. You can call and talk to
Pastor Dave and Pastor just.
(00:58):
And get the answers to your question again. 888-564-6173 is
the number to call, but, uh, like I was saying, uh,
are there any events coming up at uh Calvary, uh,
Pacific Hills Calvary Chapel that, uh, we need to know about? Well,
this weekend we have our men's breakfast, which there's no
charge for it. It's at 8 a.m.
(01:20):
And serve a really good breakfast, have some worship and
a short Bible study. I think I'm teaching the Bible
study this week, so. Oh, next weekend. I don't know,
the 11th, so that's why I have Justin. I'm senile, but.
And then that same day, our season classics, which is
what we call our senior adults fellowship, I, they named
(01:43):
it Sea Classics, so I wanted to call it final approach,
but people didn't like that. But, uh, that same day,
they will have a luncheon and a game day, and
so that's fine. And then what else do we have
coming up, Justin?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Um, I think one of our bigger events is our
fall festival at the end of the month. We have
that on the 31st, which is a Friday, and it's just, uh, uh,
every year we throw this big, I guess you can
call it a party, a celebration, we all get together and, uh,
serve a free meal. We have hot dogs, nachos, all
kinds of the, we hit all the major food groups, um,
we've got ice cream, we've got, uh, face painting, animals,
(02:21):
petting zoos, uh, bounce houses, trunk or treat for kids, just,
you know, just a great.
Opportunity for people or families or even if you're just
by yourself and you want you feel alone that night,
come on down, join us. It's a, it's a great time.
We have a we have an amazing time together and
Speaker 1 (02:37):
we don't charge anything for it. I, I just had
a guy call up and offer to pay for all
the food this year, so, um, that really helps, but
it's a blessing. That is fantastic. Well, you can get
all the information about the CC Pacific Hills events when
you go to CCPacificills.org/events.
And you can learn about the men's Bible study on
(02:58):
the 11th, the season's classic lunch and games on the 11th,
and the Fall Festival on October 31st. And again, that's
CC Pacific Hills.org. Um, also today is a, a somber
day for us, um, uh, it's a sad day for us,
but a happy day for him. Uh, it was 12
years ago today that Pastor Chuck Smith went home to
be with the Lord, and I know Pastor Dave you
(03:21):
knew Pastor Chuck really well. Yes, I did, and
It's still, I mean, it's hard to believe it's been
12 years, but, um, you know, it's, I knew when
Chuck would go to be with the Lord that the
world would never be the same, but he knew that too,
and I had, you know, he talked to me many
times about it. I spent half a day with him
(03:43):
the day before he died, and we talked about all
kinds of things and he was just adamant that.
You know, he said, I don't want you ever thinking
what would Chuck do. He, he said, you need to
listen to the Holy Spirit and see what the Holy
Spirit wants to do in the church.
And then we talked about Calvary Costa Mesa, and he's, and,
(04:05):
you know, he, he was ambivalent, of course, he didn't
want to leave, he had been here for so long,
but at the same time, he, he made me promise
and one reason I still come here to to Kwave
and one reason I still feel this is special to
come on this property is.
Chuck said, Dave, whatever happens, Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa will
(04:25):
always be my church and it'll always be your church.
Promise me that you'll never turn your back on our church.
And so for me, even though I've been 22 years
at Calvary Chapel Pacific Hills, and of course that's my church, but.
Always this place because of Chuck, it'll always be the
place where God just did amazing things in my life.
(04:48):
I met my wife here, um, because of Chuck. I mean,
it was Chuck's teaching that really drew me because he
was one of the only pastors I heard that seemed
sincere and wasn't putting on a performance and
And so the Lord brought me here and my kids
grew up here, and so I'll always have special memories
(05:09):
of this place and I know that his, you know,
Chuck's touches on everything as we, I, I used to do.
Pastor's perspective with Pastor Chuck for about 10 years together
and over Christmas, they re-ran a couple of our shows
that we did together and again it was just, it's like, wow,
it feels like 100 years ago, but it also feels like.
(05:33):
It was, it's like yesterday, um, how he impacted our
lives and didn't want to promote himself. He really wanted
us to, to follow the Lord and to listen to
the spirit and do what God wants. And so I
know that Chuck is looking down and after 12 years,
and I'm sure there'll be things that we do that
(05:55):
he's critical of, but at the same time, I know
he knows.
It's the roots that he's sunk into the soil that
has produced ministry all over the world. And so that's
something to celebrate. Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, tremendous man of God,
and he just, uh, taught the word for so long,
so faithfully, baptized so many people. I'm one of the
(06:16):
5 trillion people he baptized down in Pirate's Cove, so, yeah,
just a tremendous man of God and he's definitely missed,
but his influence is felt even all the way.
To this day. So, uh, that's right. We, we, we
celebrate his 12th year in heaven now, so we're thankful
for that. We miss him here, but we're happy for
we miss him here, but we're happy for him at
the same time. Well, Chuck used to always say about
(06:37):
people when they would die that heaven is richer, earth
is poorer, but heaven is richer, and I think that's true. Yeah,
he's missing here, but heaven has so much more to
offer now. Uh, yes, absolutely, absolutely, tremendous man of God.
Uh, we missed Pastor Chuck, but we're happy for him. Um, again,
(06:58):
888-564-6173 is the number you need to call if you
want to talk to Pastor Dave or Pastor Justin. Again, 888-564-6173.
We'll go to the calls in just a few minutes,
but we'll start with those Facebook questions so you can
send to us at facebook.com/pastors perspective, but we do prefer
to hear the sound of your voice, so call us 888-564-6173.
(07:24):
The first one comes from someone who is anonymous, and
what they write is this. Uh, they said, I'm a
part of a wonderful church community, medium to large in size.
I currently volunteer in several ministries. However, I've noticed that
it's often the same small group of people who step
up to serve, and I'm beginning to feel burnt out.
(07:47):
While I know there's a real need, and not many
others are getting involved.
Is it OK to step back from some of my commitments? Uh,
what would you say, Pastor Dave?
It's OK for you to do only what God tells
you to do. You should never be feel pressured to
do anything and, and, you know, we're not to be
(08:10):
people pleasers, we're to please God only.
And so, uh, and at the same time I understand
in churches you're desperate for people to do all kinds
of things we, I think sometimes we feel pressured as
a church that we need to offer all these ministries
and so if you're gonna offer all those ministries, someone
(08:32):
has to run them but for most of history church
didn't have a bunch of ministries. Church was.
A church service and that was basically it that's been
the church through most of history but we've created this
um idea of church as being this complicated, um, intricately
(08:54):
involved and interwoven programs and as soon as you're offering
a whole bunch of programs, then you're stuck having to
staff those programs.
But the only way people will learn the difference is
if you don't let people pressure you into doing that.
So because your attitude will end up going downhill if
(09:15):
you're doing too much, and then you can't really do
what God has called you to do with the heart
and the attitude that you want. It's God's problem if
if it's his program, he's gonna to staff it. He's gonna.
To make it happen and if at any point we
you don't have like I've sometimes said if if we
end up without children's ministers then children will come into
(09:37):
church no problem if we don't have, if we can't
do a particular ministry if we if if we can't
do our coffee ministry, you just have to buy your
coffee before you come to church, um.
It's, I, I think it's a real mistake, and the
sad thing is the most faithful people end up being
pressured to the point where now they can't really enjoy
(10:00):
serving the Lord because they're feeling like they have to.
So definitely say no to.
Anything that you don't feel God leading you to do
and don't feel the burden of I have to make
this happen or the world's crashing down. God's not wringing
his hands all worried about how he's gonna get all
his stuff done. God's fine.
(10:23):
Very true, very true. Great answer, great answer, Pastor Dave. Uh,
thank you for that message from Anonymous on Pastor's perspective
on uh the Facebook page on Instagram, Facebook, excuse me, uh,
this one's from Instagram, this is from Alexander. Alexander writes,
Hey pastors, uh my name is Alex and I love
your guys' radio station.
I had a question that I would love for you
(10:45):
guys to answer. What are your thoughts on killing in
law enforcement? If it is protecting your life or another
human life, is it justified? Pastor Justin, what would you say?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah, I think, um, obviously when it comes to killing,
it's a pretty serious issue, and it's not something to
be taken lightly, but we often kind of come to
it as Christians and go, well, God says in the
10 Commandments, not to murder, not to kill. And that
word there is actually, you know, the word for murder,
it means an intentional taking of an innocent life. Um,
(11:20):
but in the very same law, he tells you, look,
if people murder, you need to take their life. And
so God obviously had a system built in where
Um, in order to kind of keep checks and balances,
there were going to have to be a system where
lives were taken. And so, when you find yourself in
law enforcement or in, in, in military, there are going
to come those situations where, you know, based on the
(11:43):
knowledge that you have, I wouldn't just say you're excused
to kill no matter what, if you, you know, we
write off what the Nazis did if, you know, if
we could just say, well, whatever your government tells you
to do, you need to do it.
And so there is a, there is a, a certain
level where you do have knowledge involved, and if it's
something that with your knowledge, you know, you're taking the
(12:04):
life of an innocent person, I would say you probably
need to step back from that, but, um, at the
same time, God goes, look, you have to have something
that's gonna keep this society running, um, people safe, people protected,
and in those instances, you know, he, he definitely makes
allowance for it in the Old Testament law.
And uh the way they protected themselves in the Old Testament. So, yeah,
(12:26):
I think, you know, it's something that's warranted and needed
at times, if you're going to protect others.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yeah, and you have throughout Old and New Testament, you
have all the way to Revelation, you have God ordering
or performing killing of all kinds of people who are
on the wrong side, who, if they aren't killed, they
aren't stopped and, and then good people become victims. Jesus
even told his disciples when persecution started, he goes, if
(12:58):
you have two coats, sell one of your coats and
buy a sword.
That wasn't for, you know, cutting, cutting up their meat
at dinner time, it was for protection and so it, it,
it's a more complicated and interesting discussion as to what
constitutes a legitimate use of force and what level of
(13:18):
force is justified in a particular situation.
Um, that's not easy, but certainly, you can't argue that,
you know, that no use of force can be good
because then you end up impugning God Himself.
Absolutely. All right, great question from Alexander on Instagram. Again,
(13:38):
888-564-6173 is the number to call. We'll go to the
calls in just a few minutes. Um, let me get
at least one more, uh, Facebook question, and this comes
from Bree, and she writes, a question for you about
the mark of the beast in Revelation. I know the
Bible says that you should refuse to take the mark.
(13:58):
Um, uh, I know the Bible says, should you refuse
to take the mark, you will be cut off from
buying or selling. I am now hearing news of this
digital ID that could be mandatory soon, and I'm hearing
that if you do not use the digital ID, your
bank account will be closed. I'm very worried. I want
(14:19):
to be wise. I don't want to simply brush this off.
The end of days are bound to happen eventually.
So what's your thoughts on this? I'd rather be mentally
prepared for the worst, uh, just by the off chance
the rapture does not occur. I'd rather be mentally strong.
What would you say to Bree, uh, Pastor Dave? You know,
I would say that people get paranoid about like the
(14:42):
mark of the beast. It it's really clear, the mark
of the beast, whatever it is, we don't know what
it is, if it somehow it has to do with numbers,
but that could make it anything.
Um, it's people who are choosing to worship the beast.
You can't accidentally take the mark of the beast. And
uh as long as I've been a Christian since the 70s,
(15:03):
I've had people who said that, oh, barcodes or the
mark of the beast, you should never buy anything with
a barcode on it or, you know, then computers. I
remember when I bought the first computer that.
Calvary Chapel had, people are like, oh, that's the mark
of the beast, that's opening up the mark of the beast. Um, no,
the mark of the beast is when you make a
specific commitment to worship the Antichrist. And even then it's
(15:28):
not clear that you couldn't decide to then accept Jesus
and worship him. People have differences of opinion on that.
But you can't accidentally take the mark of the beast.
It certainly isn't gonna happen because you're using your Apple
Watch to purchase, you know, things with Apple Pay or something. It,
it isn't the mark of the beast is not about
(15:50):
a system, it's about your heart and worship, and so
maybe a system will make it easier for
The beast to the Antichrist to pull something like that off,
but you can't, uh, in the same way, you just
can't turn back progress. Obviously, computers, artificial intelligence, things like
(16:12):
that make some of the things that have been predicted
more feasible, but you can't fight the fulfillment of scripture
by turning back technology because where people used to think, oh,
computers are terrible, look at how many people look at.
Many people are listening to us answer Bible questions right
now on their computers or on their phones or have
(16:35):
access to later on listening to the program later and
listening to the best Bible teaching that's available in the
world anytime they want anywhere they want. And so, you know,
if you know you meant it for evil, God still
means it for good. He'll he'll use whatever uh develops
and whatever happens, so.
(16:56):
Yeah, don't, don't worry about the mark of the beast.
Don't ever decide to bow down and worship the Antichrist. That's,
that's the whole point of
that.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Well, that and, I think also, it's like, like Paul says,
you've been sealed with the Holy Spirit and greater is
he that is, as John first John says, greater than
he that's in you than he that's in the world.
And I think there comes that that element where you
have to be able to trust God more than you
trust whatever else is going on in this world and go,
you know what, he's sealed me.
He's got me wrapped up in this, like, I'm, I'm
(17:28):
not gonna accidentally take this thing and oops, now I've
slipped out of his hand, you know, as Jesus said, I, I,
nobody's plucking you out of my hand. And so there
is this confidence that the scriptures gives us that it's
not just, oh, are you gonna make a bad choice, oops,
are you gonna mess this up. It's like, no, God's
got you, and you can kind of, instead of being
(17:49):
worried about those things on the horizon, you can kind
of
Feel confident that he's greater than all that, you know,
he's got you. And, and I think kind of to
back up what Dave says, we just kind of see
these fads come and they go, and it was like
when I was younger, I remember everyone used to scare
me and told me not to get ever don't ever
get a tattoo, you know, and let alone a tattoo
on your forehead or your hand, which the forehead was
(18:11):
kind of an easy one, but the hand, it was like,
you know, and then it goes on to the next
and the next and the next, and obviously these might
be precursors to what might happen during that time, but
You know, uh, it all comes back to who are
you gonna trust in more than that, you know, what
God sealed you with and done in you, or, you know, these,
these rumors or these things going on, and so I
(18:32):
think you can kind of rest easy that it's not
something you're gonna be duped into.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Great answers from Pastor Dave and Pastor Justin here on
Pastor's Perspective, and thank you, Bree, for your question that
you sent to us at facebook.com/pastors perspective. We're gonna go
to the phones now again 888-564-6173 888-564-6173 is the number
to call. We're gonna start off with Kimmy in Garden Grove. Kimmy,
(18:59):
welcome to the program.
Hi, how are you? Good.
Um, I, I have a group of friends and we
like to go to the mosque. Friday is like mosque
day and talk to people out front if they want
to talk. And this gentleman, this Muslim gentleman was born
in India and he said, oh, Christianity is just a retelling.
(19:21):
of Hinduism, you're really just Hindus. Even the Trinity is
a retelling of the Hindu gods.
And it's nothing new under the sun. Basically, you guys
just copied Hindu doctrine and stuff. And so, anyway, if
you could help me with some kind of an answer
to that claim, I would be very grateful. All right,
(19:42):
that's a good question, Cammy. What would you say, Pastor Dave,
to that?
Well, I would say first of all there's so much
different in Hinduism than there is in Christianity. It's kind
of ridiculous to suggest that because we believe in one
God manifest in three persons that that's the same as
Hindus who uh who have.
(20:03):
Tons of gods all over the place and so the
reason uh a Muslim would say that is because they
believe that they are truly, you know, the only faith
that is actually monogamous, you know, that only believes in
one monotheism, that just one god, but we don't believe
in three gods, but Hinduism believes in thousands of gods,
(20:26):
so
Uh, it's certainly now at the same time, you'll certainly
find similarities between all religions, so the same thing goes
for Islam. It there are things that they believe and
it's much newer religion than Christianity or Judaism, and yet
they certainly borrow elements from both, and originally with Islam,
(20:50):
they really tried to be accepted.
As a version of Christianity and and to this day,
I often find the Muslims who I talked to are
wanting to say, well, you know, we believe that Jesus
was a great prophet, um, and they want to turn
us like you guys should be joined with us against
the evil Jews who killed Jesus. And so, you know,
(21:13):
people can play those games, but in reality, when you
look at the idea that Christianity, um,
You know, is rooted in Judaism that goes all the
way back to the beginning and that we recognize the
entire Old Testament as being God breathed and the New
(21:34):
Testament that sets us off as quite a bit different than.
Um, you know, those who would believe in a ton
of gods and uh, and all sorts of wild religious ideas.
So Christianity is definitely distinct. Besides that, it has the,
the people who follow.
(21:56):
Christianity, uh, for the last 2000 years. They, they believe
basically the same things moving all the way through the
history of Christianity. There aren't like a bunch of brand
new ideas that come up. There are some different emphases
and things like that, but
It's not Christianity isn't a religion that's evolving like most
(22:18):
other religions, and the biggest difference is between Christianity and
every other religion is Christianity is based on what God
has done for us.
Every other religion, you know, whether, you know, it's Islam
or whether it's the Hindus or Buddhists who don't believe
(22:39):
in any gods or every other religion is trying to
say what you need to do to get to God
and Christianity.
Says what God did in order to get to you.
And so those the the core of Christianity is the
incarnation is God becoming a human and then rising from
(22:59):
the dead after he died for our sins. There's no
other religion that that even comes close to something like
that and that's the.
Part of Christianity. So you can find certain things that
we might have that are similar, but, uh, at the
same time, it's like saying that, that, uh, you know,
the American culture is the same as the Chinese culture
(23:21):
because we all eat, or, you know, we breathe or
something like that. Sure, there are similarities, but
The distinctions of Christianity are truly unique. Yeah, that's very true. Now,
Pastor Justin, have you ever had to share your faith
with a Muslim before? And if so, how'd that
go?
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Yeah, with a Muslim, yeah, it, you know, I looked
for common ground, right? You know, and we started in
the Old Testament and we had a long lengthy conversation
as we went through Abraham and, and things began to branch,
but I find that most people at a certain point, um,
The guy I was talking to, it was more of
an inherited religion identity than it was something he actually
(24:01):
kind of really believed in and truly understood. And, and
at that point, you know, that's where Jesus is so
radically different. It's like Christianity is not something that can
just be inherited. It's not something you can just kind
of flippantly just go, well, that's what my people are,
that's what it comes down to a real person and
a real relationship with Jesus and
Uh, in encountering that in, in through faith. And so it's,
(24:26):
you know, I won't say that the conversation led to
him accepting Jesus in that moment, but it led to
further conversations in that there's something radically different when you say,
look at the end of almost every other religion and
every other religious system is uh is of you sitting
there trying to appease God, you sitting there trying to,
you know, like a Hindu, trying to work your way
(24:47):
up in the afterlife and reincarnation and
Um, and Christianity, it's so radically different in that Jesus
Christ came to meet you where you're at and to
say you couldn't do it. Go ahead. Whatever system you
wanna try, good luck, because they're all gonna kind of
lead to you just going, I don't know if I'm
good enough, I don't know if I'm gonna make it.
I don't know if God's happy with me. And so
(25:09):
that's where our conversations radically differed, you know, and I
could try and prove him wrong in so many different areas,
but
In the person of Jesus, it's, it's so different than
any other, like Pastor Dave was saying, any other religious system.
And so, that's really where I try to steer those
types of conversations to to Jesus, because if he is
(25:29):
who he says he is, and he is, you know,
Everything that the scriptures claim about him, then there is
something radically different that we have as Christians than any
other religion and, uh, it's all found in him
Speaker 1 (25:41):
so also Cammy, I would suggest I don't know if
you're if you're talking to Muslims, there's a book that, um,
a pastor Sammy Tannago wrote called Glad News God Loves You,
my Muslim Friends, and it's designed toward approaching.
Them and Sammy's used that for years and a lot
(26:02):
of other people have as well to, um, you know,
to be able to communicate with Muslims in a real
positive way. So I would suggest getting that and finding
out if that's something that you might want to incorporate
into uh some of your discussions as well.
Absolutely, you can get that uh book, Glad News, God
(26:22):
Loves You, My Muslim Friend on Amazon and uh wherever
my books are sold. By the way, Cammy, did that
answer your question?
Yeah, yeah, thank you. Can you pray for him? The
Muslim's name was Ali. Can you please pray for him? Yes, absolutely. Lord,
we just left Ali up to you, and I know
(26:43):
he isn't just a guy with a view. He's a
a a man who you sent your son to die
for him.
That you love him as much as you love anyone else.
So God, I pray that even as he, the fact
that he's making sort of ridiculous arguments just shows a
(27:04):
level of desperation that probably you're getting to him. And
so Lord, just continue to, to touch him, help him
to see personally through the love that Christians that he's
met have had for him.
That he knows that if the shoe was on the
(27:24):
other foot, that wouldn't be the case. And so Lord,
please use whatever it is that you need to use
to reach him with your love. So help him to
see the truth as only you can. I know your
Holy Spirit is working on him or he wouldn't have
even had that conversation.
So please just minister to him, Lord, in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen.
(27:48):
And thank you, Cammy, for calling us at uh from
Garden Grove at 888-564-6173. Uh, let's see if we can
squeeze one more in before the break. Uh, this is
Alison from Mission Viejo listening on the Kwave app. Allison,
welcome to the program.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Hi, thanks for taking my call. I just wanted to, um,
about class action lawsuits. When we get invited to those,
I just heard a really great teaching on 1 Corinthians
chapter 5 from Dave Ross on Sunday. Thank you, Pastor Dave. And, um,
(28:27):
But we get invited to these kind of awkward class
action things or we get kind of notified that we're
gonna get some, you know, money. Are we as Christians
supposed to just deny those, or even if it's legitimate,
do we just move on and, and don't even bat
(28:47):
an eye at it? What's your take on these, uh,
class action lawsuits? I know the only winners in the
end are, are really these attorneys, but
When we're truly affected, though, at the same time, um,
and we get invited to them, and you kind of
feel like it is sort of legitimate, but I don't
agree with suing.
(29:08):
Anyhow, I'm gonna let you guys talk.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Well, actually, I'm gonna see if we can answer that
on the second half. I think we are up to
our break, Alison. So, Alison, please stay on the line. Uh,
Pastor Dave and Pastor Justin will answer your question on
the second half of the program about class action lawsuits and, uh, also,
if anyone else wants to call.
Uh, we have a few lines open. 888-564-6173. Pastor Dave
(29:34):
Rolfe is here as well as Pastor Justin Betora. So
give him a call now 888-564-6173-888-564-6173, and we'll see you
on the second half of the program. Stay with us.
(30:15):
Hello and welcome back to the second half of Pastor's Perspective.
I'm Michael David in for Brian Perez on today's program
we have Pastor Dave Rolf and Pastor Justin Betore from
Pacific Hills Calvary Chapel. And before we went to the program,
before we went to the break, uh, we were talking
to Alison, uh, who called us at 888-564-6173. And, uh, Alison,
(30:38):
are you still there?
I am here. All right, uh, I'm gonna have Pastor
Dave answer your question. What is the perspective he has, um,
as well as Pastor Justin, uh, when they're invited to
a class action lawsuit, uh, like it talks about in
1 Corinthians chapter 5. Pastor Dave. Yeah, well, as I
(31:01):
talked about on Sunday when I taught on that chapter, um,
Paul kind of lets him know.
A lot of lawsuits aren't worth it, you know, sometimes
you're better to take a loss and so there's that
principle there, but I also think that
A lot of these class action lawsuits are phishing schemes. They're,
(31:23):
if they can get people to click and say, yeah,
I'll join in that lawsuit, then you end up really
what they are is sophisticated data mining operations where they're getting, uh,
you know, personal information from you. They may even, you know, you, you,
they may ask you for a bank account number that
(31:43):
they're gonna send money to your bank account.
And, but really, some of them might be legit. I mean,
there's always class action lawsuits that the most recent one
I got a few days ago was for Amazon Prime,
and I've had them for all kinds of other things,
but
To me, it's, you know, you have to ask yourself,
(32:03):
is this really worth the trouble because you have to
fill out forms and then they're bugging you and then
your name is on a sucker list for the rest
of your life. And so to me it's, you know,
I don't want to participate in sophisticated data mining operations,
and I also just think, you know, if I, if
(32:26):
I really felt like Amazon had ripped me off so bad.
I, I would have sued him myself if I really
thought it was that bad, but, um, I could take
him to small claims court and try to get my
$5 back, but it's a complete waste of time. And
most of the time in most lawsuits, and sorry for
I'm thankful for some of my friends who are called
(32:48):
to be attorneys and some of them really help people
who desperately need help, but for me,
It would have to be something would have to be
pretty awful, and I'd have to feel like I'm accomplishing
something pretty good for me to go through the trouble
of all the paperwork and the hassles and the stress
and everything else that goes with the lawsuit. So,
(33:10):
To me, I would say, stay out of lawsuits unless you,
you know, desperately have a need, you've suffered something, you're
losing your house or something like that. If somebody, you know,
got a few bucks from you or did something wrong,
ask yourself, what's my time?
Worth. So that's kind of the way I would look
(33:30):
at it. I would never say you shouldn't do it,
but I would say for me, I haven't seen one
yet that I thought, oh, I might get $25. That
would be great. It's just not my time's worth more
than that to me and my peace of mind. What
do you think, Justin?
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Yeah, the $5 I got one time from an iPhone,
one that I followed through was not worth the hours
and hours of filling out paperwork and probably the hundreds
of thousands of phone calls I got, you know, as
I was data mine from that. But, you know, I
don't think there's any sinful thing to do against it. Obviously,
Paul in 1 Corinthians 5 is talking about Christians working
it out amongst themselves and
(34:09):
I think, you know, if you can, like Pastor Dave
was teaching, you should, um, work it out amongst yourselves,
but you don't have to feel guilty if you're, if
you're bored or you have an extra phone lying around
or a number you don't care that gets blown up
by all these things and you want to go after,
you know, the $10 or $15 then, then go for it.
But I mean, Paul just down the way over in
(34:29):
1 Corinthians 7 says, you know, hey, the time is short, so, uh.
Don't pay attention to these things that don't matter. And
in the end, I think most of these class action lawsuits,
when you look at the big scope of your life
and what truly matters, you're gonna go, yeah, that's, I
could have I could have spent my time in a
much better way. And so that's kind of how I
look at it. It's like, sure, I guess if, if
(34:50):
that's all I got going on, but there's a lot
better things that I think God has for you to
spend your time on and, and do, and so.
Yeah,
Speaker 1 (34:59):
very true. Allison, did that answer your question?
Speaker 2 (35:03):
I love those responses, and, um, I do believe they
were data mining for sure because I, I actually, as
I was going down the rabbit trail, I halted, and
I said, wait a second, I don't feel comfortable giving
all this information out over the phone. They were like, oh, OK. But, um,
(35:24):
Yeah, I had to do with actually when I had
ovarian cancer, which is legit, um, but it's just interesting
to see all these
Numerous amounts of advertising going on on Instagram. So, yeah,
I believe the only ones in the end that win
are the attorneys in this situation. So, yeah, I appreciate that.
(35:47):
There are better ways for me to spend my time
than to than to run down the rabbit trail, even
if it might be more than $5 or $10 but
Yeah, I appreciate your feedback. Thank
Speaker 1 (35:58):
you. All right. Thank you, Alison, for calling us from
Mission Viejo at 888-564-6173. Up next, we're gonna go to Honolulu,
Hawaii and talk to Cathy. Aloha, Cathy, welcome to the program. Oh, Aloha.
And how long for taking my call.
(36:19):
Absolutely.
How can we help you? I say something? 00, I
wanted to ask about, um, prayer.
I get
Um,
I, I talked to God all day, but I don't
get down on my knees. I'm almost as old as Dave.
(36:44):
I get on my knees, but it's not on purpose.
Only when I fall.
What I say about exercise.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Pray for hours and hours like that cause he can't
get up.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Oh, Justin's like, um, but I, I, but I talked
to him all day, but I don't, and I don't
have like a prayer list. I think I should probably
do that.
But, um, and I listen to K-wave almost 24/7. If
I'm awake, I'm, it's on. I'm, I'm asleep, it's on.
But, and then also in Revelation, it says you hear
(37:23):
it or you read it, you'll be blessed. So I'm, I'm,
those are my two little um
Things, and I pray all day. I talk, I pass
everything to the Father and I um
Just wanted to know if I'm doing it right.
What would you say, Pastor Dave? Well, you know, the
(37:43):
Bible says to pray without ceasing, and so I think
what you're doing, Cathy, by living your life with an
ongoing conversation with God.
Is certainly legitimate um at the same time you see
examples in the in the New Testament for instance of
Jesus going away getting off in nature in order to
(38:06):
pray and so there are certainly times when having a
special time of prayer that's a little bit different or
to gather people together to pray for someone who is
sick and.
There are a lot of examples of prayer being very
specific and deliberate, and there's prayer that happens during worship
(38:27):
and during a collective time together as you pray for
um someone who has particular needs. And so I don't
think it's an either or thing. I think it's a
both and.
I think that your conversation with God, that's all prayer
for sure, and I would never, uh, minimize that at all.
(38:49):
But at the same time, it wouldn't hurt you to
just ask, you know, sometimes like I'll start my day
and I'll sit before I do my workout, I'll, I'll
sit down and just close my eyes and I'll just go, OK, God,
what are a couple of particular things that you want
me to pray about today?
And certain things will come into my mind and so
(39:10):
those will be things that I especially want to pray for.
Then I also, when people ask me for prayer a
lot because I'm, whether it's I get emails from people
or phone calls or um you know on social media,
people say, hey prayer, people text me and say, oh,
pray for me. I'm going through the such and such.
(39:32):
I, I never say I'll pray for you without stopping
and praying for them right then because I don't know
if I'm gonna remember to pray for someone later. So
as soon as I hear someone ask for prayer, I
always pray for them right there at that moment, and
I do it even as we are, you know, here
(39:53):
on pastor's perspective when someone's asking for prayer. I'll just
pray a little prayer, um, silently to myself.
Um, for them, and same thing when I'm when I'm
driving in my car and maybe I'm listening to pastor's perspective,
I pray along with the people who are praying with those.
So there's always that immediate specific prayer life that I
(40:17):
think is important, but I think what you want, you
don't want your prayers to be artificial. You don't want
to be thinking of how to construct them and they
need to sound just right, and you need to say
thee and thou and
And oh, this has to, you know, I really need
to write this out in a really sophisticated way. It's
(40:37):
a conversation with God. So your running conversation that you
have with him throughout the day, um, you're aware that
you are in his presence for you to just go,
hey God, look at that, or oh God help that guy,
that's sad.
Uh, that's prayer, but I think also you can consider
uh specific legitimate needs that you may, um, think about,
(41:03):
for instance, the Bible says to pray for our leaders.
So that's something that.
You know, we should do periodically is just to think
about who are the political leaders of my county, my state,
my country, the world, and just lift them up in
prayer and ask God to, to, to minister to them
(41:24):
and through them. And so I, I think you can
do both. I, I like the fact that you're always
in connection with him, but I think it wouldn't hurt
to jot down, OK, what are some specific things that
I ought to pray about as well?
Pastor Justin?
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Yeah, I, I totally agree with that. I think, I
think the heart of praying without ceasing is having that
continual conversation, but at the same time, when the disciples
came to Jesus and they were like, hey, teach us
to pray, he goes, OK, you know, I'm not giving
you a formula, but it was a formula in some sense.
I'm saying this is, there is organization to this and
you can, you know, if you really want to communicate.
(42:03):
Um, some of the deeper things of your heart, you
might wanna kind of think it through and go, hey,
our Father who art in heaven, he would be thy name,
you know, and as you go through that prayer, you
realize Jesus was very specific about different areas, because he
had a little bit of organization there, and I think
sometimes our brains, even, even when I'm talking to the
Lord throughout the day, it just runs wild, it doesn't
hone in on something, and that can be good, but,
(42:26):
you know, there's other moments where it's like, no, I
know I really need to pray for something and it
and it helps to be a little bit
I don't want to say structured cause that word can
be so destructive in spiritual things, but in some sense
to order your brain to structure things and go, yeah,
you know, it's it's not just chaos here, Lord.
I will really want to lean in and pray for this,
(42:48):
and there's nothing wrong with that. Jesus taught us to
pray like that and gave us one of the greatest
prayers that I think any of us could ever model
our own prayers after, so.
You know, that's, it's kind of like a both thing
as Pastor Dave was saying, but you don't have to
shy away from it or feel like you're, you're, you're
being fake if you're, you're praying like Jesus taught us
to pray.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
And he said, uh, there's a danger in the structure
sometimes with prayers, because sometimes you get repetitious
Speaker 2 (43:13):
sometimes. Yeah, and that, I mean, that's what he warned
right against in in Matthew 6 when he was giving
the Lord's prayer, he warned against the Pharisees who, you know,
they had specific formulas that they prayed and they, you know,
did it to be seen and, and then he gives
you a formula for prayer, but it wasn't to be
a formula like them. It was something you were supposed
to take and make it personal with him and and
(43:34):
and make it private with him. And so,
That's just kind of why I, I, I, yeah, the,
the structure part maybe comes in a little bit.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
And even in another gospel, he taught in a different context,
the Lord's Prayer almost identically, and yet he's saying, don't,
it's not vain repetition.
It's not vain repetition because it's repetitious, it's vain repetition
repetition because it's vain. You're not really intending it. So yeah, I,
(44:03):
I think that I know for me being growing up
here at Calvary Chapel and we used to always sing
the Lord's prayer at the end of the services, um,
until at one point then, um, Pastor Chuck heard.
The song with the Levitical blessing, the Lord blessing and
keeping he started doing that at the end instead, but
(44:23):
for many, many years we sang the Lord's Prayer and
every time I hear that song, it still touches my heart.
It still brings back those memories and so, yeah, he,
he obviously isn't against structured praying, but at the same time, uh,
and then you see, you read John 17 and you
(44:43):
see Jesus prayer there and it's a lot more free
flowing and
And a lot more complex and so the, the important
thing is that you pray. It's not even the most
important thing that you get it all right, but at
least start doing it and then God will end up
the Holy Spirit intercedes for us and he will lead
us into tailoring our prayers the way that God would
(45:07):
have us to do it. All right, Cathy, does that help?
Ah, that so helps. That helps because I'm, um, structure
is not my strong point, but I wrote down John 17.
I'm gonna read that one because I feel like I'm
just
Reiterating the same thing.
(45:28):
All right. Well, fantastic. All right, well, thank you for
calling us from Honolulu at 888-564-6173. We're gonna go from
Honolulu to LA and talk to Mike. Mike, welcome to
the program.
Hello. Hello.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
OK, just making sure this mic,
Speaker 1 (45:48):
a lot of mic up there.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
Uh, first and foremost, I just wanna say thank you
to everybody in the program involved. I just everybody thank
you for taking the time to do this for all
of us. It is appreciated.
Um, what I would like to ask about though, is
essentially hearing the voice of God and how we know
it is the voice of the Lord as opposed to
being our voice, you know, like a worldly voice or
(46:11):
the enemy, especially because in Isaiah 53, I believe it is,
or 59, I apologize, uh, talks about sin, separating us
from the Lord, and all men are sinners. We all sin.
You know, there's that way we can avoid.
So I, I just wanna know like how it is.
That I can be assured that I am, or what,
(46:32):
how you guys perceive assurance and that
Speaker 1 (46:35):
what you're hearing is coming from the
Speaker 2 (46:37):
Lord.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Yeah, that's a tough question. I mean, cause I mean,
if I hear a voice telling me I need to
move to New York, is that God or is that
Satan or is that me? How can I tell? Yeah,
and it's tricky too because there are all kinds of people,
and obviously,
The devil loves to make people think that what he
is saying is the truth. He's the father of lies
(47:00):
and so a lot of times people believe that what
they're hearing is something that's the truth when really it's
exactly the opposite of that. So, I mean, and I mean, personally,
my father.
When I was growing up and then my, my younger
brother as well, um, they were schizophrenic, and they both
(47:23):
loved God, would do anything for God, and yet they
heard voices that they were convinced were from God. And
so then they would do outrageous things because they thought
God told them to do it. So it's a real
legitimate question, Mike, you know, that we should be concerned about.
And so I think.
You know, when you, when you hear something that you
(47:46):
think is coming from God, first of all, compare it
to scripture, see if it's something that the scripture would
support or would even contradict.
Um, I think also it's a good in a multitude
of counselors, things can be confirmed. So I think to
have people in your life who, especially if it's not if,
(48:10):
you know, if I'm driving along and I just for
some reason I feel like I'm gonna drive a different
path home.
Today it's not gonna hurt anything. It might be God,
it might not. There's nothing really at stake, and maybe
I see someone that I'm supposed to pray for. There
are times when I've been driving along and I felt
like God told me there was a a homeless guy
(48:30):
on the side of the road, and God told me
to just go give him some money, and so I
would give him the money.
But at the same time, you're like, I don't know
that it's God, but it doesn't matter. I'm doing something
that's nice and I'm doing it for the right reasons and,
and I'm not risking anything, but, you know, it would
be different if, if God said take that guy and
(48:52):
let him come and live in your house or something
like that. You'd want to hear from God and go, OK,
would that line up with scripture? Yeah, I could. Um,
so then is there somebody who's really squared around, solid Christian.
That you can bounce it off of, that by 2
or 3 witnesses, you could confirm that it was the Lord.
(49:12):
And so it would be good for somebody else to pray.
When we think about doing something different at our church
or trying something else and
You know, we don't just make, you know, singular decisions,
we quite often get a few people together and talk
about it and, uh, just today, Pastor Justin here and
(49:34):
I are talking about, OK, after we finish going through
the book of First Corinthians, what are we going to
study next? Um, neither one of us just decides that,
we start bouncing around.
Looking how long has it been since we've taught on
this book and how and, you know, we just don't
jump into it and I'm not gonna say that God
told us, here's the next book we're supposed to go through,
(49:56):
but I think if we spend time praying about it and,
you know, thinking about it and processing it that ultimately
God's able to um speak to us without it being.
Um, a clear, dogmatic voice. See, like, faith is a
big part of this too is that in Hebrews 11,
(50:16):
it talks about faith being the substance of things hoped for,
the evidence of things not seen, that is, you need
faith when you don't have literal, obvious truth, and that's
the way, without faith that you can't please God. So
if God told me 100%, here's what you're supposed to do.
(50:37):
Then I wouldn't need faith. It would just be a
question of obedience, but as we grow in the Lord,
more and more faith is required because we're in situations
and we're not sure. So I have an idea. I
don't know if it's gonna be God or not, so
I pray about it, I'll bounce it off of other people.
I'll continue to consider it. I compare it with scripture,
(50:58):
see if it, if a scripture just pops out at
me and I go, whoa, that's real confirmation, or sometimes
I'll just, I'll be thinking about something.
And then I'll hear somebody on the radio and they're
teaching and something completely different, but a sentence that they
say is like, wow, that's exactly what I was thinking of,
or I'll see something will pop up on my social
(51:19):
media feed or, um, I'll read something somewhere in a
book and I go, wow, that's real confirmation. So it's
kind of a bit of a treasure hunt in a way. I,
God knows though, that if he needs me to do something,
he's gonna communicate it.
And so if I'm not clear on it, he'll tend
to stick with me. And so as long as I'm
(51:42):
not dogmatic and that's where mentally ill people, they're always
certain they know what they know and they don't care
what anybody else says that that's not healthy. A healthy
person is like, hmm, I'll consider that. I'll pray about.
That, um, maybe I'll try it and see what happens.
Then with that kind of a humility, you have a
(52:03):
greater chance of, of really sensing what God is leading.
And I've had a lot of people come and tell me,
you know, God told me such and such for you.
And sometimes it's just crazy stuff. Then other times I've
had people come up and go, Hey, Dave, I was
praying for you and I, I had this thought, I
don't know if it's God or not, but I was
(52:24):
just thinking this and.
I mean, I can never remember a time when somebody
was sure of themselves and I go, yeah, that was
really God. But a ton of times when people just said, hey,
I don't know, I had this thought, I don't know,
I just pray about it and I'm like, God, that
was exactly what God needed to tell me. And so
I think subtlety is important, but the scripture, prayer, multitude
(52:49):
of counselors, those are all kind of processes that I
would integrate into itike. All right, uh, Pastor Justin.
Speaker 2 (52:56):
Uh, second that. I mean, Paul said you have the
mind of Christ, and so obviously anything he's gonna speak
to you is gonna reflect that to some degree that
his nature, his character, you know, the fruit of the spirit.
And so automatically if I find myself somewhere out there
with something that's gonna hurt someone else with something I'm,
I'm saying, even, even if this it's the truth, it's
(53:18):
like I have to reevaluate how God wants me to
say that, you know, and
They're gonna be the things, most often it's the things
I don't want to say to another person that God
wants me to say, and the things I really want
to say to another person. Those are the times where
I'm like, yeah, those are the things I shouldn't say,
or at least sit on it until God really puts
it on my heart to say that. And so, um,
(53:39):
you know, when it comes to hearing from the Lord,
sometimes I think we need to make the decision all
at once, like, hey, he's speaking now, I gotta, I
gotta act on this, it's OK. It's like,
It, it can be a process where you're you're judging things, you're,
you're sorting it out, you're waiting, you're, you know, um.
You're allowing him the room to kind of further confirm
things to you, and I, I think that, you know,
(54:02):
sometimes we, we don't give ourselves that kind of space
and it's OK to do that, so.
Speaker 1 (54:06):
Yeah, I mean, Jesus spent the 1st 30 years of
his life on the earth and we don't know of
anything that he said. He didn't apparently teach anything. He
had one conversation when he was 12 with some theologians
and they were amazed. The rest of the time he's
just building stuff, you know, and then he just taught
for 3 years, so we shouldn't feel like we have
(54:27):
to just jump right to it. It's, you know, God
has his timing and he takes care of us and.
If we're, if we're wrong, he'll bring that to our
attention and, and we can, we can let it go.
But yeah, it's the big thing is, if I believe
God wants me to do something, am I willing to
(54:48):
do it? Because usually,
There are things that he wants me to do, and
I know he wants me to do them. I just
don't want to like being loving to people who I
disagree with or, you know, showing grace to those who
have hurt me or, you know, those are the kind
of things. I totally know he wants me to do it.
It's it's unambiguous, and yet I don't want to do that.
(55:09):
I don't want to pray for blessings on my enemies,
but I know that's true. Yes, very true, very true.
Great answers we heard today from, uh, Pastor Dave Rolph,
senior pastor of Pacific Hills Calvary Chapel, and Pastor Justin Betora,
associate pastor at Calvary Chapel Pacific Hills, uh, Mike from, uh,
(55:31):
LA County, thank you so much for your call here
on Pastor's Perspective.
And uh all the other people, Cathy from Honolulu, everybody else,
we really appreciate you calling. Um, we are going to, uh,
enjoy the weekend. We hope you enjoy yours as well.
Go to church, go to your home fellowship, be there,
be blessed, be a blessing, and, uh, we'll see you
on Monday on Pastor's Perspective. Good night.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.