October 7, 2025 • 56 mins
Pastors' Perspective is a one-hour call-in program where listeners can call in and get answers to questions about the Bible, Christianity, family, and life. The program is live Monday through Friday from 3:00 PM - 4:00 PM Pacific. You can call 888-564-6173 to ask your questions.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez,
and we are here live, ready to talk to you,
ready to answer the questions you might have about the Bible,
the Christian faith, maybe something you heard at church this
past Sunday, something you read in your daily devotional this morning.
We would love to talk about it at 888-564-6173.
(00:38):
You can also send in your questions online. We've got
an uh a web page set up on Kwave.com. Look
for the pastor's perspective page and you can fill out
the form there. That gets your question to us. If
you're watching on Facebook, YouTube or Instagram, scan that QR code,
that'll take you directly to the pastor's perspective page on Kwave.com,
or reach out to us using messenger.
(00:59):
On the pastor's perspective Facebook or DM us on the
pastor's perspective Instagram. But our favorite way to answer your
questions is when you call in. So please call if
you can, 888-564-6173. We're going to be here until 4 o'clock.
We've got lead pastor of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, Char
Broderson here. He's in the studio with me. What's up, Char?
(01:22):
Hello Brian. Um, yeah, it's just another Monday. So yeah, um,
just came out of a lot of meetings this morning,
but really good things. We got some new staff hires
that we're really excited about. So just watching them integrate
and yeah, just kind of celebrating all the good things
that God did this last week at Calver Chapel Costa
Mesa and on our uh at our Sunday gathering. So yeah,
(01:45):
I just, you know, kind of collecting all those things
and just.
Thinking about what God is doing this week. Yeah, yeah.
All good thanks for sure. Yeah, absolutely. Mike Chaddick will
be joining us if he's not there already. Are you, Mike? No,
not yet. OK. Mike is the senior pastor of Image
Church in San Juan Capistrano, California, and, uh, he's gonna
be joining us on Zoom, so we'll get that fixed,
(02:07):
and then we'll talk to Mike too. But we want
to talk to you as well at 888-564-6173.
And uh let's begin by answering some questions that were
sent in online. Here is one from Van, who wrote
to us using Facebook Messenger. He asks, or it's a
two part question.
I need some understanding and explanation on the Star of David.
(02:30):
When did it come into existence? What does it mean?
And why is it on Israel's flag? Also, in Acts
and Amos, the books of Acts and Amos in the Bible,
Scripture speaks very negatively of the star of Remphan, which
looks exactly like the modern Star of David. So Van asks,
what's going on here? Sure? Yeah, um,
(02:52):
That's an interesting question. Um, you know, there's nothing particularly
in the Bible, you know, that even describes the star
of Rain and um what's going on there, but, you know,
apparently this is
Um, a symbol that is connected to, you know, worship
of the celestial being that is being referenced there in
(03:12):
the Old Testament and also in the book of Acts. Uh,
and from my reading and understanding, there's no direct connection
between the Star of David and the star of Ehane,
though they have, you know, a similar look. They're both
six-pointed stars. Uh, and then, yeah, the Star of David
too is, uh, got an interesting history.
Um, it goes back, uh, long before the Zionist movement,
(03:34):
which is what it's connected with now, that, um, and
the star actually was adopted in Prague of all places, uh,
by a Jewish community there, and then, you know, became
associated with the Zionist movement, but, um, yeah, the symbol
itself apparently goes back, uh, to the medieval period even, uh,
being used but not originally by uh Jews, um, even
(03:55):
by Muslims and
Even in some Hindu culture. So, yeah, I'm not really
sure why this particular um symbol was chosen, but, um,
at some point in time, uh, the, yeah, the Zionist
movement did use it as a rallying point for uh
the people in the land of Israel. So that's about
(04:15):
all I can tell you, and that is just from
a cursory read Wikipedia, so.
Yeah, that was not in my seminary training. That'll be
your next, uh, course, right? That's right, yes, yeah. I
think we have Mike Chadick now. Mike, we're talking about
this question that was sent in online about the Star
of David, etc. Uh, do you know any more?
(04:36):
Than what's already been mentioned.
Oh, still can't hear Mike.
Hold on. No. OK, we can't hear Mike yet, so
we're still trying to figure things out. So, Mike, hang tight,
we'll get to you eventually. Uh, but Van, thank you
for sending in your question on the pastor's perspective Facebook messenger. And, uh,
(05:00):
here's another one that was sent in online, and then
we'll go to the phones, 888-564-6173. Gina, using the pastor's
perspective page at Kwave.com from Fontana.
Asks can Christians eat halal meat or is this considered
meat sacrifice to an idol.
Yeah, um, interesting question, again, and I think actually one
(05:23):
that is, um,
Definitely much more um.
Yeah, like part of our culture now, right? I mean
remember as a kid, like, you know, teaching or listening
to teachings in in First Corinthians about meat sacrifice to
idols and just being like, what is this? Like when,
when would I ever come into association with this unless
I was in, you know, some kind of eastern culture.
(05:44):
And now, you know, in our days we have, uh,
halal meats that are all over the place, right? And
even halal butcheries and things like that. And so, uh,
a question about meat being sacrificed to idols, um.
Yeah, is this and should this be an issue for
us as Christians? Uh, I really think like Paul the
(06:05):
Apostle says, this really comes down to our individual conscience,
and that's even what Paul says going back to the,
you know, the original situation there in the church in Corinth.
And Paul was addressing a community that had come out
of just, you know, a life of paganism, a life
of
Living, you know, in bondage to various gods and goddesses
(06:28):
of the pantheon. And so, you know, these people that
was just so deeply ingrained with them and Paul was,
you know, encouraging this community to make such a clean
cut with that old way of life into this new
way of following Jesus. And so there were some in
the church at that time who were still, you know,
purchasing meat, uh, in the marketplaces that was sacrificed to
(06:48):
idols and because it was cheap, and because you get
a good deal on it. And so,
Um, it was this issue in the church in Corinth,
and Paul just is writing to them and just saying, look, like,
It, it's only an issue if you are, you know,
in some way, um,
You know, making, I think, a pathway back for brothers
(07:11):
and sisters who have come out of paganism to be
drawn back into that world and back into that lifestyle.
And so Paul just in there, he's just talking about, look,
I'm determined in my own life, never to lay any
kind of stumbling block or anything, you know, that would
pull somebody away from faithfulness to Jesus. And so I
think for us, it really comes down to that, right? Like,
(07:32):
as Paul says in Corinthians, we know that there is
only one God and one Lord Jesus Christ, right? So
we know that even the meat that is, you know,
halal cleansed, right, um, you know, cleaned by, um, Islamic law.
Uh, is not something that we have to worry about, like, oh,
you know, this has been blessed by Allah, or I
actually don't know what the regulations of it are, so
(07:54):
maybe I shouldn't speak to that, but um,
We don't have to fear that this has been in
some association with another god because we just know that
there's only one God. But I do think, you know,
if you've got somebody who comes out of um a
Muslim background, and this, you know, has just associations of
their past, and you are um doing life in community
(08:15):
with them, and this is a, you know, a point
of stumbling for them cause they came out of that,
then I would say just like Paul's words, right? Like,
then you should avoid that in the company of
This person, so, but I don't think for us, um,
who maybe you know, have no association with with any
of that if we go down to, you know, um,
(08:35):
what's the one, shop, I think it's called the halal Guys, right?
And it's a shawarma shop and I've eaten there many times.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
OK, so just doing
this.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Oh, we have Mike. Mike. Hi Mike, you're live.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
I am alive and I'm here. So sorry
Speaker 1 (08:51):
guys. You're good. Nice to see you, Mike, can't hear you.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Good good to see
you.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
All right, so you're holding up your phone there. So that's,
have you been able to listen to the conversation at least?
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yes, I have actually. So, um, yeah, I think it's
an interesting application of whatar was talking about the issue
of eating meat that's been offered to idols and stuff. Um,
I think the principle that Paul lays down still applies
for us today. That's not something that
In general, Christians need to be concerned with, and I'd say,
(09:26):
on a case by case basis, if it were the case,
and I don't know that it is, but if it
were the case that, say, a practicing Muslim somehow suggested
they made explicit to you that if you partake of this,
you're
Somehow affirming that Allah is gone and stuff like that,
I could see how there would be a problem with
doing that. But in general, no, it's just, I mean,
(09:47):
as far as I know, halal just means it's, it's lawful, um,
a particular meat or food is considered clean or lawful,
so I don't know that there's necessarily a blessing over
that per se or anything like that. So I, I
do think the principle applies, but in actual practice I'm
not even sure that that would come up.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yeah.
Very good, Gina, thank you for sending in your question
on the pastor's perspective page at kwave.com. 888-564-6173 is our number,
and we're gonna go to the phones now, beginning with
line one because one is a great place to start. Hello,
line one. What is your question for us today on
(10:28):
Pastor's perspective?
That would be you.
Hello. Hi, what's your question?
I was wondering, um, is it
It's unusual for people to belong to two different churches. I,
I belong to, I have, I have a home church
that I'm involved in, and then I'm in children's ministry and,
(10:51):
and so on. Uh, but there is a Calvary Chapel
that opened down the street for me and I, I
like the teaching there. I just like I need a
little bit more, um, so.
Is that all, you know, is that OK? I know
that the church I'm attending right now would not, would
not be OK with that, but I was just wondering
(11:11):
what a pastor's perspective.
OK, sure, start with you. Yeah, it's an interesting question.
I mean, I love what you just said. I mean,
you're part of a church. It sounds like you know
individuals there and you are known, so you're not just,
you know, um, somebody who's just simply attending, but you
are an active member of the church, so you're, you know,
(11:33):
you're known and you're serving or invested. And I think
that is really important and um.
What we really need to understand about what it means
to attend the church, right? It's, we're not just talking
about a service that we receive or an event that
we attend, but a community that we belong to where
we are, um, learning, but we are also serving and
(11:57):
we are discovering the will of God together, you know,
and and how God wants to impact our local communities
through this, through this, you know, group of people gathered
in his name. Um.
Yeah, but the question, you know, so I think maybe
one way to put it would be because it, you know,
it sounds like you're not going to another church in
order to be known, in order to serve in order
to invest there, but this sounds like it's more supplemental
(12:20):
to you. And so I think of, you know, like,
are you familiar with like Bible study fellowship?
Yes, I'm I'm part of that as well. Yeah, yeah,
I mean, it, it's, it sounds to me like there
is another study that is life giving to you in
the season of your life and so you're simply attending
those things. I think what I would warn against are
individuals who just jump from congregation to congregation almost like a, um,
(12:46):
you know, like a smorgasbord, right? And it's like, well,
I take a little here and a little there and
a little there, but I'm actually don't belong anywhere.
And I'm not sacrificially serving or giving anywhere, and I
think that that is just such an essential part of
our discipleship and what it means to follow Jesus that
we actually belong to a community where we are known,
(13:07):
where we know, where we serve and are invested. And
so it sounds like you're doing all those things and
this Bible study at this Calvary Chapel is just something
that is helping you, you know, feeding you, strengthening you,
and I think that's wonderful. Yeah, Mike, what's say you?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Yeah, so one of the interesting things for me was
I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area, which
is a less churched area than Southern California, where I
moved down when I was in my early twenties. And
one of the interesting things I, I noticed was how
it was very common for people to attend multiple churches,
(13:44):
and I think I agree with Char. I don't think it,
I mean, it's not wrong per se. I think the
question is,
Uh, does attending multiple churches, whether it's 2 or 3
or 4 or 5, some people would go almost literally
to a different church every day. Um, does it prevent coinanea,
(14:04):
and that word is the Greek word that's usually translated fellowship.
What it actually means is joint cooperation in a shared pursuit.
So I think you, you simply have to ask, there
should be.
A church where I'm a joint participant in the mission
(14:25):
and in the community and so I and it it
sounds like in your particular case um that you do
have that and as as Char use the word supplemental
that's what it sounds like so I, I don't see
a problem with that um for just people more broadly
that might be listening. I do think it's something we.
(14:45):
You need to watch out for and again, especially like
in Southern California commuter culture and there's so many churches,
I do find that for many people attending multiple churches inhibits,
if not prohibits, actual uania and community, and I'd say
that's not good, that's the thing that I'd say is
(15:06):
kind of the criteria.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
So our caller didn't ask this question, but uh a
follow-up could be, what about when it comes to tithing? Like,
does our caller have to give 10% to each church?
I mean, if she, if she wanted to, if she
felt the need to support her church, would it, would
she split it up and now this new church that
she's going to, they're getting 5%, let's say, when she's
(15:31):
serving over here and giving an equal amount. I mean,
how would you?
Yeah, I mean, I mean, I, I said, right, serving
and invested, Mike kind of broke down the word coinania
for us, um, um, this common pursuit, and I think
that that's uh what the New Testament envisions that there is, um,
(15:51):
you know, we are seeking to do God's will, God's righteousness,
justice and mercy together, and the way that we do
that as a church is through our offerings, right? This
is
This joint collective where we are uh using what God
has given us. Um, it's a stewardship, but we use
it to build for His kingdom. And I think, yeah, you, um,
(16:15):
should be doing that at the local church to which
you belong. And I don't think, yeah, like the New
Testament and visions that we're just kind of spreading this
all around, and I actually find this.
Um, a lot. I think that many people, unfortunately, you know,
and this is a hard thing, right? This is, I'm
not down on Compassion International. Wonderful things are done. World Vision, right?
(16:35):
We as a family support World Vision. It's amazing.
Ministry, but I just want to encourage um that if
you belong to a local church, that you would not
only invest in that local church with your offerings, but
also be part of local outreach.
(16:56):
Because I think first and foremost, we are responsible to
do mission and evangelism in the place that God has
called us. God has called us here as his witnesses,
not to Africa, not to Asia, but in the place
where you live. And so I think first and foremost
of first priority that our offerings should be, you know,
(17:17):
about this common pursuit with the congregation to which we belong. Mike.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Yeah, I think you know the, the idea of giving oneself.
To the church, you know, and reciprocity, those are principles
that we see in the New Testament and I think.
It's difficult to do that, you know, in many cases,
not all, but in many cases for someone to truly
(17:47):
give themselves to a community to a church in giving
financially and giving up your, your time investing in relationships, building.
You know, gospel friendships, you know, confessing of sin to
one another, listening to those, all the, the one another's
of John's epistles, for example. It, I just, once again,
(18:10):
it's not so much a right or wrong, it's more
of a practical reality. I just think that's hard.
Um, the more we're spread thin, and I think what
you are saying, there should be sort of an, an
anchor fellowship. There, there should be a particular communion of saints,
local body of saints that, that's our family, that's our
(18:31):
primary family. And of course, we want to do good
towards our brothers and sisters and the broader body of Christ,
but I, I think at the same time for our
own growth and for the well-being of the local church,
it's just something where I think
In all those different areas, a church, a single church
should be primary. I, I think I would say.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
OK, I've got another follow-up question because somebody might ask.
I'm gonna call right now. Yes, I'm gonna call on
my cell phone here. I'm gonna call it, um, so
somebody might say, and I think we've even heard this
before on the program, where somebody will say, OK, so
my church is doing pretty good. They don't need my tithe.
(19:16):
So instead of giving them money, can I send it
to like World Vision or whatever? What would you guys
say to that?
Yeah, I think, I mean, I think that that
Calls for a conversation with the leadership.
If you feel that the church is doing pretty good
and doesn't require your offering, I would have a conversation
(19:38):
with your leadership because there are many churches who, you know,
their own principles of giving, you know, can be these
things like, well, you know, never know what the, never
let the left hand know what the right hand is doing.
And so it's all um done, you know, in this
way of, you know, we don't want to know who
gives what and we don't talk about money because we
don't want to focus on it and these things. And so,
(19:59):
Um, the congregation doesn't actually know, you know, the financial
state of the church. I'm actually speaking from experience here, right?
Like we just for the first time shared about our
financial situation.
Uh, with the congregation of Costa Mesa. We have a
60 year history, and we've never done this, but this
is actually a way for us to partner and say, hey,
these are the things that we value as a church.
(20:20):
Here's where we want to go. And I think, you know, um,
you know, just allowing your leaders and pastors if they
haven't done this from the pulpit or, you know, at
a meeting to just share the vision, to share maybe
some of these things that the Lord.
Just put on their heart of man, we really actually
have a desire to reach this community, to do this,
you know, kind of event or outreach to really serve, uh,
(20:42):
you know, the underprivileged of our city in this way.
And we would love to be able to set, you know, uh,
funds aside to be able to do that. So I'd say,
I think before we do that, there's probably some digging
that needs to be done and just some, you know, real.
Um, organic conversations that need to happen within the church.
And if we feel that like, OK, yeah, I am
giving to my local church and then I want, I,
(21:05):
the Lord has blessed me and I want to give
above and beyond, then that's great. Like, yeah, give to
ministries that are doing kingdom work.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Mike,
Yeah, and I, I'd say I think a lot of
people start first on the practical side of giving like,
you know, oh I wanna give towards this if we're
doing this, oh you're doing this I like this oh
you're you're doing that. I don't really like that. I
don't wanna give I I think we've taken a fundamental
misstep if that's how we first think about giving giving
(21:33):
is first and foremost an act of worship.
So should I withhold worship from God? Because, you know, again, in,
in the strict sense, how do I give money to
the invisible God who is Spirit? It's in and through
the local church and the Old Testament, it would, you know,
bring the ties to the Lord how to the temple
(21:54):
in the New Testament, it's the church. So I think it's,
it's dangerous if we begin with that mindset.
Of the practical because what it actually ends up being
is I'm buying something. And I think that's, for example,
why a lot of churches, um, I won't say I'm
gonna restrain myself. It, it might not be the primary motivator,
(22:16):
but one reason is churches will get involved with politics
is because people will give money towards that. They feel
like they're buying a cause, we're buying an agenda, we're
helping something to get done and, and we're giving towards that,
but that's that's not worship.
That's you buying something. That's a consumer saying, I want
(22:37):
something to get done. I want this candidate to win.
I want this party to win. Therefore, I'm going to
give money and I can see how, even if it
wasn't the primary motivator in the beginning, I can see
how churches, that that money, I guarantee you will start
rolling in if you get political. um, but that's why
I think it's so important to go back and say, hey,
This is about worshiping the Lord. This is about giving
(23:00):
to God. This is about me as a giver being
transformed into a generous giver like God who so generously
gave Jesus to me. That is the reason. So I'm
already thinking wrongly if I go to any church, I'm like, oh,
I can see you need some repairs on your, your steeple.
you need, oh, you know, maybe some better pews and.
(23:22):
Oh, I'd like to see this and, and again, it's,
it's not that that's not a valid concern, like, like
Charm mentioned, I, I think it is, but first and foremost,
this is about worshiping God. And if what we're saying
is I don't want to worship God in that way here,
then I would say, honestly, where can you
Go and genuinely worship God in that way. So for me,
(23:46):
it doesn't matter whether a church looks poor or whether
it looks rich on the surface. This is about me
worshiping God and I'm going to worship with the money
that he's given me.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
No, I think that's great, Mike. And I think, yeah, again, like,
you know, that.
Giving is a part of our worship, it's a part
of our, you know, uh, discipleship and spiritual formation in
the way of being remade into the image of our
generous God. I think though, beyond that, right? Like if
we do though see a church that we feel is
(24:18):
not concerned about the things that God is concerned about,
you know, if there are, uh, you know, care for
the poor in our community, doing, um, you know, works
of justice and mercy.
And if we see churches that are, you know, not
concerned about those things, I think that's a conversation to
have with our leadership, right? Hey, look, this is what
we see in the pages of the Old Testament about
(24:40):
God's heart for, you know, the fatherless, the widow, the poor,
and the foreigner, you know, and then we see this continuing, uh,
in the New Testament, the Book of Acts, right, the
way that they care for one another and they're doing
justice and mercy, they're actually doing temple-like work.
Um, outside of the priesthood, right, in the book of Acts,
(25:00):
and this is this beautiful picture of, you know, just
being in line with the heart of God, being in
line with the mission and ministry of Jesus. And so
I think it that would require a conversation, because I
do think that there are some people that look at
their churches and they think,
Well, there are people out there that are hurting. How
can I help them? Like, I actually believe that this
(25:20):
is worship to serve these people in this way, this
is close, near and dear to God's heart, and I
don't feel that my church is doing that.
That might be the case. I think first and foremost,
I would encourage you to go have a conversation with
the leadership of the church, you know, and appeal to this.
You know, I, I think sometimes, right, like you said, Mike,
like we go into these churches and we're kind of
critiquing and looking around for what we want and, you know,
(25:43):
this kind of like, what am I buying?
Um, and I think rather like, who am I serving? Like,
how am I contributing should be the question not just
by my finances, but what am I bringing to the table, right?
And sometimes we might come to a church and say, oh,
this is missing, I'm gonna go somewhere else. Well, if
you have a heart for that, maybe you are the
missing piece, like make.
(26:03):
Your voice heard, bring that perspective, right? Because that's what
we find in the New Testament. It is a body
and it's made up of different parts. It's a family
with different members, and we don't all have the same
gifts and perspectives and passions, but God wants to bring
us together so that we can, you know, uh, stir
one another up, as the writer of Hebrew says, to
(26:26):
love and good deeds. And so I think, yeah, there's
just so much there to talk about and to explore. So.
Not to put you guys on the spot here, but,
oh wait, here I go with another question. Um, no, so,
can either of you think of an example of maybe
at your, either your current church or a past church
where somebody did come up and say, hey, what about this?
(26:49):
Have you ever thought of this idea and where you,
cause I mean, we can't do every single idea that
somebody comes to us with, but hey, can you think
of an example where maybe you did incorporate an idea
that someone had?
Mike Char, either one of them. Well, I,
Speaker 2 (27:04):
I, yeah, so I mean that we're always open to
hearing from people in our body because I believe the
Lord speaks to everybody, not just to me, not just
to pastors. So number one, we're just always open to that,
and we've done things many times, different ministries that we support. Um,
I think like what what Shar was saying, I think.
(27:25):
As someone is looking for a church that's a basic
question to ask along with doctrine and other things, right? Like,
are we, and I think the question should not be
too specific. I think once again because I, I think
there's the danger of just, you know, we're trying to
buy exactly what we want.
Church exactly in our own image, but I think the
basic question, hey is this church missional, right? Like is
(27:47):
it reaching out? Is it serving the community? Is it,
you know, reaching loss, is it discipling the saints, you know, that,
that kind of stuff, but I think, you know, for example.
Um, you know, the leadership will make decisions, and again, they,
they can be good ones, but that doesn't mean everybody is,
is on board, for example, you know, the, as, as
(28:07):
the pastor of a church, the, the United Kingdom has
just been a place that I've always had a heart
for ever since I was young. And so I remember
we announced we were gonna support, you know, missions work
in the UK. And somebody raised, well, what about this country?
Rather, you know, I'd rather I support this country. Why,
why that one? And, and I explained like genuine reasons,
(28:30):
even though, because one of the arguments was, OK, the
UK is not as poor as some other countries, which
is true. However, the mindset is also, yes, but you
pointed to, for example, a country in Africa. Now that's true.
It is, it is more materially poor and that could
be a legitimate reason.
(28:50):
To do ministry there. On the other hand, that same
country they mentioned where people were poor, had like 50
times more people going to church in the average city
than in the UK.
So if you think about lost souls, and again, we
care about bodies, minds, and souls, not just part, um,
I don't just look at an area or a neighborhood
(29:11):
for that matter, and go, oh, they're rich and in
need of nothing. That's actually to be spiritually blind. People
need the riches of the gospel, not just our money,
and money can facilitate the mission of the gospel.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Very good. Thank you for answering my questions and uh.
But we'll get to your questions now. 888-564-6173 is the
number to call. Uh, Sherry hung up, but maybe you
can call back and we'll get to you and Lydia
and everyone else who wants to talk to Char Roderson
and Mike Shattuck. You've got their ears for the next
30 minutes. 888-564-6173, watching on Facebook, YouTube, or Instagram, you
(29:50):
can call too. The number's right there, 888-564-6173.
(30:20):
Hey, we're back on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is our number.
We would love to hear from you today. Gonna be
here for about 25 more minutes, so call in 888-564-6173.
Char Broderson, the lead pastor of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa,
is here in the studio with me, and Mike Chaddick,
the senior pastor of Image Church in San Juan Capistrano,
(30:42):
is on the phone, although you can see him too
if you're watching on Facebook, YouTube, or Instagram.
Just want to confirm, Mike, are you still there?
Speaker 2 (30:51):
I am still here.
Can you hear me? Yes,
Speaker 1 (30:53):
loud and clear. Just wanted to make sure that, uh,
because I can't see you. I wanted to make sure
that you were there. All right, 888-564-6173. Let's talk to
Lydia in La Habra. Hey there, Lydia, what's your question
for us today?
Thank you. Yes, my question is that, you know, we
keep hearing about uh Israel, you know, they're gonna have
(31:14):
another peace treaty. Israel has had multiple peace treaties broken,
and according to God's holy word, there's not gonna be
no peace till Jesus comes back. And as true believers, I,
I believe that that's, that's, that's his word, and that
is the truth and
(31:35):
You know, we also know there's gonna be an anti-Christ
coming and, and, and why do we keep looking at
human beings instead of looking at the holy word of God?
Could you please tell me, I mean, it makes no sense.
We know there's not gonna be no peace till Jesus
comes back and thank you for being so gracious and
taking my call. Thank you. All right, sure. Yeah, I
(31:59):
think it's, it's probably good for us to differentiate, um,
you know, what we mean and I think what
Israel and the Palestinians uh intend to, you know, come
to in a in a peace treaty, right? So when
we think about the peace or shalom that the scriptures envisioned,
you know, Lydia's right, right?
That can only come about through the reign of God.
(32:19):
In in Scripture, Shalom is not just the absence of war, uh,
or adversity, but actually the positive qualities of God's presence, right? So, um,
shalom is what is brought by God's reign, and we
know that that can only come through King Jesus, right?
He is the king of the kingdom of God. Um,
but I do think, right, we can still experience, um,
(32:42):
You know, peace in the sense of, you know, the
absence of warfare, uh, good relations between different countries, and
I think, um, as Christians, um, who know that ultimately,
you know, the peace that we all long for will
only come with the kingdom of God, I think we
still pray for peace and we want peace for people.
(33:03):
I mean, there's a a portion in scripture actually, um,
you know, many times where Paul would say, you know,
that we are, um,
You know, he says, you know, to seek peace and
pursue it. He's not saying, oh, you know, try to
make that they're, you know, the, the kingdom of God
is here in this way, and, and all he's actually saying, no, no, no, like,
(33:23):
live in relation to your neighbors in these situations in
a peaceful way. And I think that this is actually
something that we should want and desire for people even
before and outside of, you know, the ultimate peace of
the kingdom of God, that this is
Something God actually wants for people. So, um,
Yeah, I do think though that sometimes we are confusing, right?
(33:47):
There's that prayer in in Psalm 122, where we are
applying that to Israel now and we're praying for that
kind of peace to happen to them apart from accepting
Jesus and living under the reign of God. And so
I think just sometimes we get a little confused in
our theology by the things that we're praying, you know, um.
(34:11):
So, I think, you know, as concerns us, and of course,
you know, um, the US with other nations, we want
peace for the world. We want an absence of war,
I think for our lives individually, we want to seek
peace and good relationships with our neighbors who don't know God.
And then, of course, above and beyond all that, there's
(34:33):
this amazing prayer that Jesus brought us, uh, taught us
to pray, which is, you know,
Father in heaven, how Lord be your name, Your kingdom come,
Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
That that's the thing that we are ultimately looking towards,
that we are working for, right? And that we have,
(34:55):
you know, um, seeking first the kingdom of God as
Jesus put it in the sermon on the Mount. So, yeah. Mike,
what say you?
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yes, I agree. I mean, I think first and foremost,
the peace of God has actually been made for us
through Jesus Christ. So ultimately, all peace comes through him.
He's actually the prince of peace. So I think in
one sense when we're praying.
For the peace of Israel from a New Testament perspective. So,
(35:24):
looking at the Old Testament still as the very word
of God, and yet through the lens of the advent
of the Messiah, Jesus. And as we do that, I think, uh,
the prayer of
Our heart remains, but in a sense, the focus is
on the need for Israel to be saved. They need
the gospel. They need Jesus Christ. They need him desperately.
(35:47):
They can't have the peace of God while simultaneously rejecting
the prince of peace. So I've, I've shared this before, and,
and it was a shock to me when I first
discovered it, but, you know, 99 points, I think it's
4 or 99.4%, 99.6% of those living in the land
(36:07):
of Israel reject Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior,
and of that 0.4.6% that are Christians, they're mostly Arab Christians.
So I think one.
to pray for the peace of Israel as a New
Testament Christian is to pray that they might be saved. That's,
that's first and foremost. And then I think as Charles said,
(36:29):
more broadly in general, I do think it's right to
pray for temporal peace.
And there seems to always be conflict in the Middle East,
particularly regarding Israel. And as Christians, we believe all human
beings are made in the image of God. Any time
an image bearer is being killed, and to be honest,
regardless of which news sources you listen to and which
(36:51):
narratives you buy into, a real basic fact of the
matter that's indisputable is image bearers are being killed. And,
and I think that's something that as Christians, um.
We ought to lament that and we certainly ought to
be praying for peace in any conflict, whether it's there
in Israel or elsewhere and I think obviously as Christians,
(37:15):
obviously Israel is near and dear to our heart, so
obviously it's going to receive particular attention and prayer, but
that also doesn't mean that we neglect to pray for
the peace of the world, the nations around us, even
for our own country as well.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
Good points, guys. Thank you for bringing them up here
on Pastor's Perspective, and Lydia, thank you for calling in
with your question. 888-564-6173 is the number, and now we're
gonna go to Wildemar and speak to Mariel. Hey there, Mariel,
welcome to Pastor's Perspective.
She hung up.
(37:53):
What happened to Marabel? Did I hang up on her?
Maybe I did. I'm sorry. Call us back, Marabel.
I apologize if that was my fault. I don't think
it was, but just, just saying. So, uh, let me
read a question that was sent in online really quick.
This is from Zoriah, who sent us, uh, this on Facebook.
My mother is 75 and has moved back into my
(38:14):
home after being kicked out of every family member's house
because she's disrespectful and angry. I am so tired. I'm
an only child. Today, she said she wishes she never
gave birth to me.
I'm trying to be a good daughter, but I'm going crazy.
I have a small studio apartment, and I have no escape.
(38:34):
I love her, but I can't deal with her. I
believe she's in the beginning stages of something, because when
I told her she is not in a relationship with
Elon Musk, she turned on me and cussed me out badly, embarrassingly.
Please help me know what to do. I can't live
like this. Also, she does tarot cards and burns sage,
(38:55):
even when I told her not to do those occult
things in my home. Please help me make sense of this. Mike,
what do you say to Zariah?
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Yeah, I'm, I'm so sorry to hear that. What a
terrible circumstance, uh, to be in, and I feel bad
both for Zora and for her mom because it sounds
like she uh may be going through some very serious
uh health issues, so.
I didn't hear it and it sounded like, well, maybe
she's in the beginning stages, so I think the first
(39:26):
thing to do would probably what I would advise is
to get a diagnosis, see a medical professional, is she,
is this Alzheimer's dementia, something like that if you like
just some of the and obviously I've dealt with this
with some of our uh family members.
And, and, and people in the church, uh, their family
(39:46):
members as they've gotten older and some of the things
she described, you know, obviously like, you know, the being
married to Elon Musk thing, you know, um, the, the
every family owns kicking it just not, you know, the
anger and saying things that are, you know, very mean and.
Uh, just probably not something that that person would have
(40:08):
said many years ago, so I think definitely that's the
place to start is to have her see a medical professional,
see if you can get a diagnosis on that. And
then as far as you know, doing the tarot cards
and stuff like that, I mean, it is your house.
I mean in this kind of way as possible if
you've asked and she's not doing it. I, I don't.
(40:31):
I think you have to keep things that you believe
are wrong or evil in your home, so I think
you can take those things. I know some people might
know you have to let her keep her tarot cards
imagine so I personally, I don't think so and and
I don't know that she even means to do this,
but I do think it's disrespectful if someone has you.
(40:52):
Into their home, you know, they're welcoming, opening their arms
to you and then doing things that uh they've asked
you not to do. So, you know, and I don't
believe that's good for her to be doing anyway.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
Yeah, I mean, I just, heart goes out to you, Soraya,
and just
Yeah, it's just so hard to watch uh a parent
and just, um, or grandparent, their life kind of deteriorate and,
of course, their mental state to see them kind of
become this different person and of course, direct that at you.
So my heart really truly goes out to you and
just like Mike was saying, I think, just encourage you
(41:26):
if there are, you know, you said you're an only
child with there are other family members or close friends
to really invite them in and just ask for help
in this season.
Uh, in caring for your mother and then of course,
you know, just getting some professional help and diagnosis, um,
I think are the, are the next right step to take. Um,
(41:47):
and I think just the stuff that Mike was saying too,
you know, uh, of course, this comes down to personal
conscience and, and what you're good with, but I do think,
you know, I, I would really encourage you to not
make minor things, major things, um, you know, and I
think sometimes it's hard, right? We kind of focus on like,
Well, there's this thing that they're doing and this and
they're in my home, but it really does sound like
(42:08):
your mother is just not in her right mind. And
I think that in these situations, I would just encourage you,
you're gonna have to lean into Jesus, just to have
grace for those things, you know, just that she's doing
where she's not in the right mindset and, you know,
she's doing things that she wouldn't normally do. She's being unreasonable.
And I just want to kind of
(42:29):
Um, just walk down that kind of thought with you
for a moment. I think in this season, this is a,
this is a season where you might just have to
lean into the Lord Jesus in a way like never before,
you know, and just really, um, seek his comfort and
his presence that he knows what it's like to be
taken advantage of. Uh, he knows what it's like to
(42:51):
be screamed at and berated and none of it is right,
none of it is justifiable, uh, but this is your mother.
And I just want you to know that the Lord
is with you and that he will strengthen you as
you just lean into him and this, you know,
By God's grace could actually be um such a sanctifying
(43:13):
um season of life for you as you lean into Jesus.
And you know, there's probably deep hurt in these things that,
you know, you're not gonna be able to work out
with your mother, but the Lord can attend to those
things and really draw them out of you, and you
can cast your cares on Him and you can really
(43:33):
experience him shouldering that burden.
Uh, for you and taking away your shame and your guilt.
And so I'm just gonna pray, uh, to that end
for you. Yeah, I think that's a dilemma when we're
told to honor our parents, but yet they're acting like,
so where's that fine line of how do I handle this?
And I think that's what Zoriah's calling in with or
(43:56):
or sending in her question. Mike, did you have another thought?
Speaker 2 (44:00):
Just to follow up with Char said, I think that's,
it's so wise just, you know, to really pray to
have the compassion of Christ, uh, for her mother, you know, again,
especially um when there can be mental health issues and
decline and things like that, and I've, I've seen this
before where, you know.
(44:23):
People can say some of the most horrible, awful things, um,
and it's hard to say, well, don't, don't take it seriously,
don't let it bother you, it's, it's, you know, it's,
it's not even really them, you know, they, they don't
understand uh what they're saying, you know, and I think.
It's easy to say that, but of course it's very,
(44:43):
very hard to do, you know, because it is coming
from that person and it's, but I do think that just,
you know, as Jesus was even able to pray from
the from the cross, Father, forgive them for they do
not know what they do, you know, and I think
that is the spirit of Christ, and I think that's
something that that Paul is saying we have the mind
of Christ, that that's what.
(45:05):
The gospel gives to us and I think this is
though we would never ask for this, we would never
wish this on anyone on either side of it, right?
But nevertheless, the Lord often walks us through valleys we
didn't ask to be in, but he promises to be
with us and so I think this can be a
journey of this.
discipleship that is extremely formative and getting to know Christ
(45:30):
and the fellowship of His sufferings.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Absolutely. Yeah. And I think just to reiterate, that you
can't do it alone, right? So reaching out to your
Christian brothers and sisters in your church or family members
like you're just gonna need a lot of support in
this season.
Yep. Her name is Zoriah, so you guys are team
of listeners and viewers, write down her name in your
(45:52):
prayer journal and remember to keep her and your mom,
her mom in your prayers. 888-564-6173. Let's go to MJ.
Welcome to Pastor's perspective, MJ.
Uh, good afternoon, sir. Hi. And um my question that
I have was that, how do you deal or how
(46:13):
do you go about people who are mourning, uh, people when,
when someone is in the hospital dying or, uh, you know, they,
they say, you know, uh, we're ready to put, put
the plug or whatever. What do you say to those people? What,
what do you
How do you go about that? Um, we had a
(46:35):
case where we had to do the same thing, and
we constantly, constantly wonder for ourselves if we did the
right thing. And later on, we started doing research and
looking around to where there was people who were still alive,
even though they say, you know, there's no brain activity
(46:57):
or whatever, they were still alive.
I mean, like I was mentioning to someone else, I,
I saw a case of a woman who was still
pregnant while in coma and gave birth to a baby.
And so, how do you go about that? Like, how
(47:18):
do you know? Because based on that till now, now
I come, it comes to my mind has changed a
lot to where
God is the say so the only one who can say,
you know, he's, he or she is dead already, or
whatever it is, and whenever you found family or close
(47:38):
friends or whoever, how do you come along and extend.
A word, a grace, hope. How, how do you go
about that? Yeah, sure, we'll start with you. Yeah, goodness.
I mean, I, I don't know, MJ, if this is
like a, a hypothetical situation or if this is, you know,
something that you're personally dealing with in a family situation
(48:01):
or a friend, but yeah, these are just such sensitive
issues and um I think, you know, like, unless an
individual has some kind of like deep connection and
Type of, you know, relationship where they are, you know, uh,
someone just of deep wisdom that has been able to
give guidance to a family. I just feel like this
(48:22):
is one of those kind of, um, hands off type
of situations. I feel like that is something that a
family has to decide together.
And, and make that decision. And of course, you know,
the question that, you know, on at least on the
screen is, you know, what does the Bible say about this?
And I think in particular, you know, right, the Bible
is written long before we had the technology to keep
(48:45):
people on life support, right? And so, of course, right, the,
the scriptures would say that our, our objective should always
be to save life, right? But now we have this,
you know, godlike ability that we can keep a body.
Uh, you know, quote unquote alive without brain activity, right?
(49:06):
And so I do think that there is kind of
this weird space that we find ourselves in because of
technology with this power that, you know, it's like, wow,
who has the wisdom to actually discern these things? And so,
I think it's only by
You know, just deep prayer and deep wisdom, you know,
that we make these decisions. And, you know, as you said,
(49:26):
we've heard stories where, man, OK, there's no brain activity or,
you know, pronounced dead, and yet pulled the plug and
then somebody came back to life, you know, or, you know,
being in a coma for all this time and then
all of a sudden, you know, awaking, right? So there
are those incredible miraculous stories that we hear of. And
so at the end of the day, I think what
we need to know, I think is that um
(49:48):
I think God knows our hearts, and he, and he
holds us responsible in situations like this for our intentions, right? Like,
you know, I know that there are probably families that
are put in situations where they can't possibly afford the
astronomic bills to keep, you know, someone in this situ,
they have no choice but to do this. And I
don't think God is saying, oh well, if you would
(50:10):
have just held on for 5 more minutes, you know,
I was gonna resuscitate them, I think.
You know, we're getting into the space sometimes I think of,
you know, um,
You know, uh, kind of, so I'm sorry, I'm tongue
tied all of a sudden, uh, but, you know, questions
about the character of God. Is God withholding, right? Is
(50:30):
he the kind of go, well, you know, if you
only did a little bit more than I would, and
that is not the God that we find in the
New Testament, right?
Uh, he is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger, abounding
in steadfast love, and so we can be certain that
with these difficult, um, life circumstances that we do, you know,
the best according to the wisdom that we have, the
(50:52):
ability that we have, and God is gracious and compassionate. Mike.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
Yeah, I mean, it definitely depends on where you are
in this scenario for example, if this is not happening
to you or your family, you are a friend of someone,
a brother and sister in Christ of someone who is
dealing with this. I think again the number one thing
is just being available and being present, you know, very
often I think.
(51:19):
People need just basic things, number one, just someone to
listen to them because likely they're overwhelmed. Likely if they're
the ones asking these questions, well, what about this? Are we,
are we saving life or prolonging death, you know, what
are we doing? And they're overwhelmed with all these things and,
and I think, and really who, who can bear.
That who who can handle that we're we're not sufficient
(51:41):
of ourselves for these kinds of things. So I think
having someone to lean on just someone maybe you don't
necessarily have an answer, but you can listen they can
get it out because it's all bottled up and then
I think practical acts of service very likely in situations
like this family is are exhausted, you know, the constant trips.
To hospice or the hospital up all night thinking about,
(52:04):
you know, the, the bills and decisions that need to
be made and many times family don't agree with each other.
I literally was just having a scenario like this with
a friend of mine where part of the the real
pain is, I mean, it's not even just the situation.
with the family member who's dying, which is bad enough
on its own, but very stark disagreement, heated disagreement over
(52:26):
a course of action within the family. And so, you know,
and they're just, they're beat but then they have families
of their own, they're trying to support and maintain while
also
Dealing with a situation like this, so I think you
know acts of service practically, hey, can we help you?
Can we, you know, do you need any food? Can
we drop off groceries? can we run any errands for you?
(52:48):
things like that and then I think if you're the
one actually involved in the situation I I tell people
I know this sounds morbid but it's better that you
think about these things before it happens.
Um, a book that I came across years ago that
I think is phenomenal for thinking through and walking through
(53:09):
all the things that even Char was bringing up is
a book entitled The Christian Art of Dying Learning from Jesus.
It was written.
Uh, by Alan Verahy, who was an ethics professor at
Duke Divinity School, and he was actually, and keep in mind,
he was not just a, you know, academic theologian, he
was actually on the ethics committee of Duke University Hospital.
(53:31):
So he was involved for
For setting principles, rules, regulations over actual real life scenarios,
but he kind of takes a look at the dying
of Jesus and the Bible. What can we learn from that?
He looks at Christian history. What does it mean to
die a good death?
What is that? What is it? What is a good death?
He deals with what he calls the myth of medicalization,
(53:55):
where now in the modern scientific era, we, it's almost
like people can't admit somebody's dying. Oh, they're, they're sick,
you know, nobody goes to the hospital to die. They're
just sick and they'll get better. And sometimes there's an unwillingness, inability,
and some Christians even feel like they're not being faithful,
like they're not having faith that they believe that, oh no,
this person is, is dying. God's calling them home and
(54:15):
And so it's a great great book even if you
don't agree with everything that he says it's gonna get
you thinking about the right things so I think that
and that's for anyone so for the caller I think
this is something that could actually even help you understand
what they're going through decision.
They're gonna have to be making thinking through it if
(54:36):
they do ask you for some thoughts there may be
things in there that could be helpful for them and
then of course when, and it really it's not, it's
not a matter of if but when we need to
go through this with our own family, I think we'll
be better prepared.
Speaker 1 (54:52):
All right, so that book that Mike just mentioned, it's
called The Christian Art of Dying, Learning from Jesus by
the author Alan Verhey, V E R H E Y.
Thank you, MJ, for calling in with your question today
on Pastor's Perspective, and that is all the time we
have on today's episode. If you missed any part of
it or just want to hear it again, it'll be
archived really.
(55:12):
Soon on Facebook, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify. And if
you've got a question for us, if you tried calling
in today, we couldn't put you on. So sorry, we
will be back again tomorrow between 3 and 4 in
the afternoon. For Char Broderson and Mike Chatick, I'm Brian Perez.
God bless you guys. Thanks for listening and watching Pastor's Perspective.
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez,
and we are here live, ready to talk to you,
ready to answer the questions you might have about the Bible,
the Christian faith, maybe something you heard at church this
past Sunday, something you read in your daily devotional this morning.
We would love to talk about it at 888-564-6173.
(00:38):
You can also send in your questions online. We've got
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(00:59):
On the pastor's perspective Facebook or DM us on the
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questions is when you call in. So please call if
you can, 888-564-6173. We're going to be here until 4 o'clock.
We've got lead pastor of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, Char
Broderson here. He's in the studio with me. What's up, Char?
(01:22):
Hello Brian. Um, yeah, it's just another Monday. So yeah, um,
just came out of a lot of meetings this morning,
but really good things. We got some new staff hires
that we're really excited about. So just watching them integrate
and yeah, just kind of celebrating all the good things
that God did this last week at Calver Chapel Costa
Mesa and on our uh at our Sunday gathering. So yeah,
(01:45):
I just, you know, kind of collecting all those things
and just.
Thinking about what God is doing this week. Yeah, yeah.
All good thanks for sure. Yeah, absolutely. Mike Chaddick will
be joining us if he's not there already. Are you, Mike? No,
not yet. OK. Mike is the senior pastor of Image
Church in San Juan Capistrano, California, and, uh, he's gonna
be joining us on Zoom, so we'll get that fixed,
(02:07):
and then we'll talk to Mike too. But we want
to talk to you as well at 888-564-6173.
And uh let's begin by answering some questions that were
sent in online. Here is one from Van, who wrote
to us using Facebook Messenger. He asks, or it's a
two part question.
I need some understanding and explanation on the Star of David.
(02:30):
When did it come into existence? What does it mean?
And why is it on Israel's flag? Also, in Acts
and Amos, the books of Acts and Amos in the Bible,
Scripture speaks very negatively of the star of Remphan, which
looks exactly like the modern Star of David. So Van asks,
what's going on here? Sure? Yeah, um,
(02:52):
That's an interesting question. Um, you know, there's nothing particularly
in the Bible, you know, that even describes the star
of Rain and um what's going on there, but, you know,
apparently this is
Um, a symbol that is connected to, you know, worship
of the celestial being that is being referenced there in
(03:12):
the Old Testament and also in the book of Acts. Uh,
and from my reading and understanding, there's no direct connection
between the Star of David and the star of Ehane,
though they have, you know, a similar look. They're both
six-pointed stars. Uh, and then, yeah, the Star of David
too is, uh, got an interesting history.
Um, it goes back, uh, long before the Zionist movement,
(03:34):
which is what it's connected with now, that, um, and
the star actually was adopted in Prague of all places, uh,
by a Jewish community there, and then, you know, became
associated with the Zionist movement, but, um, yeah, the symbol
itself apparently goes back, uh, to the medieval period even, uh,
being used but not originally by uh Jews, um, even
(03:55):
by Muslims and
Even in some Hindu culture. So, yeah, I'm not really
sure why this particular um symbol was chosen, but, um,
at some point in time, uh, the, yeah, the Zionist
movement did use it as a rallying point for uh
the people in the land of Israel. So that's about
(04:15):
all I can tell you, and that is just from
a cursory read Wikipedia, so.
Yeah, that was not in my seminary training. That'll be
your next, uh, course, right? That's right, yes, yeah. I
think we have Mike Chadick now. Mike, we're talking about
this question that was sent in online about the Star
of David, etc. Uh, do you know any more?
(04:36):
Than what's already been mentioned.
Oh, still can't hear Mike.
Hold on. No. OK, we can't hear Mike yet, so
we're still trying to figure things out. So, Mike, hang tight,
we'll get to you eventually. Uh, but Van, thank you
for sending in your question on the pastor's perspective Facebook messenger. And, uh,
(05:00):
here's another one that was sent in online, and then
we'll go to the phones, 888-564-6173. Gina, using the pastor's
perspective page at Kwave.com from Fontana.
Asks can Christians eat halal meat or is this considered
meat sacrifice to an idol.
Yeah, um, interesting question, again, and I think actually one
(05:23):
that is, um,
Definitely much more um.
Yeah, like part of our culture now, right? I mean
remember as a kid, like, you know, teaching or listening
to teachings in in First Corinthians about meat sacrifice to
idols and just being like, what is this? Like when,
when would I ever come into association with this unless
I was in, you know, some kind of eastern culture.
(05:44):
And now, you know, in our days we have, uh,
halal meats that are all over the place, right? And
even halal butcheries and things like that. And so, uh,
a question about meat being sacrificed to idols, um.
Yeah, is this and should this be an issue for
us as Christians? Uh, I really think like Paul the
(06:05):
Apostle says, this really comes down to our individual conscience,
and that's even what Paul says going back to the,
you know, the original situation there in the church in Corinth.
And Paul was addressing a community that had come out
of just, you know, a life of paganism, a life
of
Living, you know, in bondage to various gods and goddesses
(06:28):
of the pantheon. And so, you know, these people that
was just so deeply ingrained with them and Paul was,
you know, encouraging this community to make such a clean
cut with that old way of life into this new
way of following Jesus. And so there were some in
the church at that time who were still, you know,
purchasing meat, uh, in the marketplaces that was sacrificed to
(06:48):
idols and because it was cheap, and because you get
a good deal on it. And so,
Um, it was this issue in the church in Corinth,
and Paul just is writing to them and just saying, look, like,
It, it's only an issue if you are, you know,
in some way, um,
You know, making, I think, a pathway back for brothers
(07:11):
and sisters who have come out of paganism to be
drawn back into that world and back into that lifestyle.
And so Paul just in there, he's just talking about, look,
I'm determined in my own life, never to lay any
kind of stumbling block or anything, you know, that would
pull somebody away from faithfulness to Jesus. And so I
think for us, it really comes down to that, right? Like,
(07:32):
as Paul says in Corinthians, we know that there is
only one God and one Lord Jesus Christ, right? So
we know that even the meat that is, you know,
halal cleansed, right, um, you know, cleaned by, um, Islamic law.
Uh, is not something that we have to worry about, like, oh,
you know, this has been blessed by Allah, or I
actually don't know what the regulations of it are, so
(07:54):
maybe I shouldn't speak to that, but um,
We don't have to fear that this has been in
some association with another god because we just know that
there's only one God. But I do think, you know,
if you've got somebody who comes out of um a
Muslim background, and this, you know, has just associations of
their past, and you are um doing life in community
(08:15):
with them, and this is a, you know, a point
of stumbling for them cause they came out of that,
then I would say just like Paul's words, right? Like,
then you should avoid that in the company of
This person, so, but I don't think for us, um,
who maybe you know, have no association with with any
of that if we go down to, you know, um,
(08:35):
what's the one, shop, I think it's called the halal Guys, right?
And it's a shawarma shop and I've eaten there many times.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
OK, so just doing
this.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Oh, we have Mike. Mike. Hi Mike, you're live.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
I am alive and I'm here. So sorry
Speaker 1 (08:51):
guys. You're good. Nice to see you, Mike, can't hear you.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Good good to see
you.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
All right, so you're holding up your phone there. So that's,
have you been able to listen to the conversation at least?
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yes, I have actually. So, um, yeah, I think it's
an interesting application of whatar was talking about the issue
of eating meat that's been offered to idols and stuff. Um,
I think the principle that Paul lays down still applies
for us today. That's not something that
In general, Christians need to be concerned with, and I'd say,
(09:26):
on a case by case basis, if it were the case,
and I don't know that it is, but if it
were the case that, say, a practicing Muslim somehow suggested
they made explicit to you that if you partake of this,
you're
Somehow affirming that Allah is gone and stuff like that,
I could see how there would be a problem with
doing that. But in general, no, it's just, I mean,
(09:47):
as far as I know, halal just means it's, it's lawful, um,
a particular meat or food is considered clean or lawful,
so I don't know that there's necessarily a blessing over
that per se or anything like that. So I, I
do think the principle applies, but in actual practice I'm
not even sure that that would come up.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yeah.
Very good, Gina, thank you for sending in your question
on the pastor's perspective page at kwave.com. 888-564-6173 is our number,
and we're gonna go to the phones now, beginning with
line one because one is a great place to start. Hello,
line one. What is your question for us today on
(10:28):
Pastor's perspective?
That would be you.
Hello. Hi, what's your question?
I was wondering, um, is it
It's unusual for people to belong to two different churches. I,
I belong to, I have, I have a home church
that I'm involved in, and then I'm in children's ministry and,
(10:51):
and so on. Uh, but there is a Calvary Chapel
that opened down the street for me and I, I
like the teaching there. I just like I need a
little bit more, um, so.
Is that all, you know, is that OK? I know
that the church I'm attending right now would not, would
not be OK with that, but I was just wondering
(11:11):
what a pastor's perspective.
OK, sure, start with you. Yeah, it's an interesting question.
I mean, I love what you just said. I mean,
you're part of a church. It sounds like you know
individuals there and you are known, so you're not just,
you know, um, somebody who's just simply attending, but you
are an active member of the church, so you're, you know,
(11:33):
you're known and you're serving or invested. And I think
that is really important and um.
What we really need to understand about what it means
to attend the church, right? It's, we're not just talking
about a service that we receive or an event that
we attend, but a community that we belong to where
we are, um, learning, but we are also serving and
(11:57):
we are discovering the will of God together, you know,
and and how God wants to impact our local communities
through this, through this, you know, group of people gathered
in his name. Um.
Yeah, but the question, you know, so I think maybe
one way to put it would be because it, you know,
it sounds like you're not going to another church in
order to be known, in order to serve in order
to invest there, but this sounds like it's more supplemental
(12:20):
to you. And so I think of, you know, like,
are you familiar with like Bible study fellowship?
Yes, I'm I'm part of that as well. Yeah, yeah,
I mean, it, it's, it sounds to me like there
is another study that is life giving to you in
the season of your life and so you're simply attending
those things. I think what I would warn against are
individuals who just jump from congregation to congregation almost like a, um,
(12:46):
you know, like a smorgasbord, right? And it's like, well,
I take a little here and a little there and
a little there, but I'm actually don't belong anywhere.
And I'm not sacrificially serving or giving anywhere, and I
think that that is just such an essential part of
our discipleship and what it means to follow Jesus that
we actually belong to a community where we are known,
(13:07):
where we know, where we serve and are invested. And
so it sounds like you're doing all those things and
this Bible study at this Calvary Chapel is just something
that is helping you, you know, feeding you, strengthening you,
and I think that's wonderful. Yeah, Mike, what's say you?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Yeah, so one of the interesting things for me was
I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area, which
is a less churched area than Southern California, where I
moved down when I was in my early twenties. And
one of the interesting things I, I noticed was how
it was very common for people to attend multiple churches,
(13:44):
and I think I agree with Char. I don't think it,
I mean, it's not wrong per se. I think the
question is,
Uh, does attending multiple churches, whether it's 2 or 3
or 4 or 5, some people would go almost literally
to a different church every day. Um, does it prevent coinanea,
(14:04):
and that word is the Greek word that's usually translated fellowship.
What it actually means is joint cooperation in a shared pursuit.
So I think you, you simply have to ask, there
should be.
A church where I'm a joint participant in the mission
(14:25):
and in the community and so I and it it
sounds like in your particular case um that you do
have that and as as Char use the word supplemental
that's what it sounds like so I, I don't see
a problem with that um for just people more broadly
that might be listening. I do think it's something we.
(14:45):
You need to watch out for and again, especially like
in Southern California commuter culture and there's so many churches,
I do find that for many people attending multiple churches inhibits,
if not prohibits, actual uania and community, and I'd say
that's not good, that's the thing that I'd say is
(15:06):
kind of the criteria.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
So our caller didn't ask this question, but uh a
follow-up could be, what about when it comes to tithing? Like,
does our caller have to give 10% to each church?
I mean, if she, if she wanted to, if she
felt the need to support her church, would it, would
she split it up and now this new church that
she's going to, they're getting 5%, let's say, when she's
(15:31):
serving over here and giving an equal amount. I mean,
how would you?
Yeah, I mean, I mean, I, I said, right, serving
and invested, Mike kind of broke down the word coinania
for us, um, um, this common pursuit, and I think
that that's uh what the New Testament envisions that there is, um,
(15:51):
you know, we are seeking to do God's will, God's righteousness,
justice and mercy together, and the way that we do
that as a church is through our offerings, right? This
is
This joint collective where we are uh using what God
has given us. Um, it's a stewardship, but we use
it to build for His kingdom. And I think, yeah, you, um,
(16:15):
should be doing that at the local church to which
you belong. And I don't think, yeah, like the New
Testament and visions that we're just kind of spreading this
all around, and I actually find this.
Um, a lot. I think that many people, unfortunately, you know,
and this is a hard thing, right? This is, I'm
not down on Compassion International. Wonderful things are done. World Vision, right?
(16:35):
We as a family support World Vision. It's amazing.
Ministry, but I just want to encourage um that if
you belong to a local church, that you would not
only invest in that local church with your offerings, but
also be part of local outreach.
(16:56):
Because I think first and foremost, we are responsible to
do mission and evangelism in the place that God has
called us. God has called us here as his witnesses,
not to Africa, not to Asia, but in the place
where you live. And so I think first and foremost
of first priority that our offerings should be, you know,
(17:17):
about this common pursuit with the congregation to which we belong. Mike.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Yeah, I think you know the, the idea of giving oneself.
To the church, you know, and reciprocity, those are principles
that we see in the New Testament and I think.
It's difficult to do that, you know, in many cases,
not all, but in many cases for someone to truly
(17:47):
give themselves to a community to a church in giving
financially and giving up your, your time investing in relationships, building.
You know, gospel friendships, you know, confessing of sin to
one another, listening to those, all the, the one another's
of John's epistles, for example. It, I just, once again,
(18:10):
it's not so much a right or wrong, it's more
of a practical reality. I just think that's hard.
Um, the more we're spread thin, and I think what
you are saying, there should be sort of an, an
anchor fellowship. There, there should be a particular communion of saints,
local body of saints that, that's our family, that's our
(18:31):
primary family. And of course, we want to do good
towards our brothers and sisters and the broader body of Christ,
but I, I think at the same time for our
own growth and for the well-being of the local church,
it's just something where I think
In all those different areas, a church, a single church
should be primary. I, I think I would say.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
OK, I've got another follow-up question because somebody might ask.
I'm gonna call right now. Yes, I'm gonna call on
my cell phone here. I'm gonna call it, um, so
somebody might say, and I think we've even heard this
before on the program, where somebody will say, OK, so
my church is doing pretty good. They don't need my tithe.
(19:16):
So instead of giving them money, can I send it
to like World Vision or whatever? What would you guys
say to that?
Yeah, I think, I mean, I think that that
Calls for a conversation with the leadership.
If you feel that the church is doing pretty good
and doesn't require your offering, I would have a conversation
(19:38):
with your leadership because there are many churches who, you know,
their own principles of giving, you know, can be these
things like, well, you know, never know what the, never
let the left hand know what the right hand is doing.
And so it's all um done, you know, in this
way of, you know, we don't want to know who
gives what and we don't talk about money because we
don't want to focus on it and these things. And so,
(19:59):
Um, the congregation doesn't actually know, you know, the financial
state of the church. I'm actually speaking from experience here, right?
Like we just for the first time shared about our
financial situation.
Uh, with the congregation of Costa Mesa. We have a
60 year history, and we've never done this, but this
is actually a way for us to partner and say, hey,
these are the things that we value as a church.
(20:20):
Here's where we want to go. And I think, you know, um,
you know, just allowing your leaders and pastors if they
haven't done this from the pulpit or, you know, at
a meeting to just share the vision, to share maybe
some of these things that the Lord.
Just put on their heart of man, we really actually
have a desire to reach this community, to do this,
you know, kind of event or outreach to really serve, uh,
(20:42):
you know, the underprivileged of our city in this way.
And we would love to be able to set, you know, uh,
funds aside to be able to do that. So I'd say,
I think before we do that, there's probably some digging
that needs to be done and just some, you know, real.
Um, organic conversations that need to happen within the church.
And if we feel that like, OK, yeah, I am
giving to my local church and then I want, I,
(21:05):
the Lord has blessed me and I want to give
above and beyond, then that's great. Like, yeah, give to
ministries that are doing kingdom work.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Mike,
Yeah, and I, I'd say I think a lot of
people start first on the practical side of giving like,
you know, oh I wanna give towards this if we're
doing this, oh you're doing this I like this oh
you're you're doing that. I don't really like that. I
don't wanna give I I think we've taken a fundamental
misstep if that's how we first think about giving giving
(21:33):
is first and foremost an act of worship.
So should I withhold worship from God? Because, you know, again, in,
in the strict sense, how do I give money to
the invisible God who is Spirit? It's in and through
the local church and the Old Testament, it would, you know,
bring the ties to the Lord how to the temple
(21:54):
in the New Testament, it's the church. So I think it's,
it's dangerous if we begin with that mindset.
Of the practical because what it actually ends up being
is I'm buying something. And I think that's, for example,
why a lot of churches, um, I won't say I'm
gonna restrain myself. It, it might not be the primary motivator,
(22:16):
but one reason is churches will get involved with politics
is because people will give money towards that. They feel
like they're buying a cause, we're buying an agenda, we're
helping something to get done and, and we're giving towards that,
but that's that's not worship.
That's you buying something. That's a consumer saying, I want
(22:37):
something to get done. I want this candidate to win.
I want this party to win. Therefore, I'm going to
give money and I can see how, even if it
wasn't the primary motivator in the beginning, I can see
how churches, that that money, I guarantee you will start
rolling in if you get political. um, but that's why
I think it's so important to go back and say, hey,
This is about worshiping the Lord. This is about giving
(23:00):
to God. This is about me as a giver being
transformed into a generous giver like God who so generously
gave Jesus to me. That is the reason. So I'm
already thinking wrongly if I go to any church, I'm like, oh,
I can see you need some repairs on your, your steeple.
you need, oh, you know, maybe some better pews and.
(23:22):
Oh, I'd like to see this and, and again, it's,
it's not that that's not a valid concern, like, like
Charm mentioned, I, I think it is, but first and foremost,
this is about worshiping God. And if what we're saying
is I don't want to worship God in that way here,
then I would say, honestly, where can you
Go and genuinely worship God in that way. So for me,
(23:46):
it doesn't matter whether a church looks poor or whether
it looks rich on the surface. This is about me
worshiping God and I'm going to worship with the money
that he's given me.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
No, I think that's great, Mike. And I think, yeah, again, like,
you know, that.
Giving is a part of our worship, it's a part
of our, you know, uh, discipleship and spiritual formation in
the way of being remade into the image of our
generous God. I think though, beyond that, right? Like if
we do though see a church that we feel is
(24:18):
not concerned about the things that God is concerned about,
you know, if there are, uh, you know, care for
the poor in our community, doing, um, you know, works
of justice and mercy.
And if we see churches that are, you know, not
concerned about those things, I think that's a conversation to
have with our leadership, right? Hey, look, this is what
we see in the pages of the Old Testament about
(24:40):
God's heart for, you know, the fatherless, the widow, the poor,
and the foreigner, you know, and then we see this continuing, uh,
in the New Testament, the Book of Acts, right, the
way that they care for one another and they're doing
justice and mercy, they're actually doing temple-like work.
Um, outside of the priesthood, right, in the book of Acts,
(25:00):
and this is this beautiful picture of, you know, just
being in line with the heart of God, being in
line with the mission and ministry of Jesus. And so
I think it that would require a conversation, because I
do think that there are some people that look at
their churches and they think,
Well, there are people out there that are hurting. How
can I help them? Like, I actually believe that this
(25:20):
is worship to serve these people in this way, this
is close, near and dear to God's heart, and I
don't feel that my church is doing that.
That might be the case. I think first and foremost,
I would encourage you to go have a conversation with
the leadership of the church, you know, and appeal to this.
You know, I, I think sometimes, right, like you said, Mike,
like we go into these churches and we're kind of
critiquing and looking around for what we want and, you know,
(25:43):
this kind of like, what am I buying?
Um, and I think rather like, who am I serving? Like,
how am I contributing should be the question not just
by my finances, but what am I bringing to the table, right?
And sometimes we might come to a church and say, oh,
this is missing, I'm gonna go somewhere else. Well, if
you have a heart for that, maybe you are the
missing piece, like make.
(26:03):
Your voice heard, bring that perspective, right? Because that's what
we find in the New Testament. It is a body
and it's made up of different parts. It's a family
with different members, and we don't all have the same
gifts and perspectives and passions, but God wants to bring
us together so that we can, you know, uh, stir
one another up, as the writer of Hebrew says, to
(26:26):
love and good deeds. And so I think, yeah, there's
just so much there to talk about and to explore. So.
Not to put you guys on the spot here, but,
oh wait, here I go with another question. Um, no, so,
can either of you think of an example of maybe
at your, either your current church or a past church
where somebody did come up and say, hey, what about this?
(26:49):
Have you ever thought of this idea and where you,
cause I mean, we can't do every single idea that
somebody comes to us with, but hey, can you think
of an example where maybe you did incorporate an idea
that someone had?
Mike Char, either one of them. Well, I,
Speaker 2 (27:04):
I, yeah, so I mean that we're always open to
hearing from people in our body because I believe the
Lord speaks to everybody, not just to me, not just
to pastors. So number one, we're just always open to that,
and we've done things many times, different ministries that we support. Um,
I think like what what Shar was saying, I think.
(27:25):
As someone is looking for a church that's a basic
question to ask along with doctrine and other things, right? Like,
are we, and I think the question should not be
too specific. I think once again because I, I think
there's the danger of just, you know, we're trying to
buy exactly what we want.
Church exactly in our own image, but I think the
basic question, hey is this church missional, right? Like is
(27:47):
it reaching out? Is it serving the community? Is it,
you know, reaching loss, is it discipling the saints, you know, that,
that kind of stuff, but I think, you know, for example.
Um, you know, the leadership will make decisions, and again, they,
they can be good ones, but that doesn't mean everybody is,
is on board, for example, you know, the, as, as
(28:07):
the pastor of a church, the, the United Kingdom has
just been a place that I've always had a heart
for ever since I was young. And so I remember
we announced we were gonna support, you know, missions work
in the UK. And somebody raised, well, what about this country?
Rather, you know, I'd rather I support this country. Why,
why that one? And, and I explained like genuine reasons,
(28:30):
even though, because one of the arguments was, OK, the
UK is not as poor as some other countries, which
is true. However, the mindset is also, yes, but you
pointed to, for example, a country in Africa. Now that's true.
It is, it is more materially poor and that could
be a legitimate reason.
(28:50):
To do ministry there. On the other hand, that same
country they mentioned where people were poor, had like 50
times more people going to church in the average city
than in the UK.
So if you think about lost souls, and again, we
care about bodies, minds, and souls, not just part, um,
I don't just look at an area or a neighborhood
(29:11):
for that matter, and go, oh, they're rich and in
need of nothing. That's actually to be spiritually blind. People
need the riches of the gospel, not just our money,
and money can facilitate the mission of the gospel.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Very good. Thank you for answering my questions and uh.
But we'll get to your questions now. 888-564-6173 is the
number to call. Uh, Sherry hung up, but maybe you
can call back and we'll get to you and Lydia
and everyone else who wants to talk to Char Roderson
and Mike Shattuck. You've got their ears for the next
30 minutes. 888-564-6173, watching on Facebook, YouTube, or Instagram, you
(29:50):
can call too. The number's right there, 888-564-6173.
(30:20):
Hey, we're back on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is our number.
We would love to hear from you today. Gonna be
here for about 25 more minutes, so call in 888-564-6173.
Char Broderson, the lead pastor of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa,
is here in the studio with me, and Mike Chaddick,
the senior pastor of Image Church in San Juan Capistrano,
(30:42):
is on the phone, although you can see him too
if you're watching on Facebook, YouTube, or Instagram.
Just want to confirm, Mike, are you still there?
Speaker 2 (30:51):
I am still here.
Can you hear me? Yes,
Speaker 1 (30:53):
loud and clear. Just wanted to make sure that, uh,
because I can't see you. I wanted to make sure
that you were there. All right, 888-564-6173. Let's talk to
Lydia in La Habra. Hey there, Lydia, what's your question
for us today?
Thank you. Yes, my question is that, you know, we
keep hearing about uh Israel, you know, they're gonna have
(31:14):
another peace treaty. Israel has had multiple peace treaties broken,
and according to God's holy word, there's not gonna be
no peace till Jesus comes back. And as true believers, I,
I believe that that's, that's, that's his word, and that
is the truth and
(31:35):
You know, we also know there's gonna be an anti-Christ
coming and, and, and why do we keep looking at
human beings instead of looking at the holy word of God?
Could you please tell me, I mean, it makes no sense.
We know there's not gonna be no peace till Jesus
comes back and thank you for being so gracious and
taking my call. Thank you. All right, sure. Yeah, I
(31:59):
think it's, it's probably good for us to differentiate, um,
you know, what we mean and I think what
Israel and the Palestinians uh intend to, you know, come
to in a in a peace treaty, right? So when
we think about the peace or shalom that the scriptures envisioned,
you know, Lydia's right, right?
That can only come about through the reign of God.
(32:19):
In in Scripture, Shalom is not just the absence of war, uh,
or adversity, but actually the positive qualities of God's presence, right? So, um,
shalom is what is brought by God's reign, and we
know that that can only come through King Jesus, right?
He is the king of the kingdom of God. Um,
but I do think, right, we can still experience, um,
(32:42):
You know, peace in the sense of, you know, the
absence of warfare, uh, good relations between different countries, and
I think, um, as Christians, um, who know that ultimately,
you know, the peace that we all long for will
only come with the kingdom of God, I think we
still pray for peace and we want peace for people.
(33:03):
I mean, there's a a portion in scripture actually, um,
you know, many times where Paul would say, you know,
that we are, um,
You know, he says, you know, to seek peace and
pursue it. He's not saying, oh, you know, try to
make that they're, you know, the, the kingdom of God
is here in this way, and, and all he's actually saying, no, no, no, like,
(33:23):
live in relation to your neighbors in these situations in
a peaceful way. And I think that this is actually
something that we should want and desire for people even
before and outside of, you know, the ultimate peace of
the kingdom of God, that this is
Something God actually wants for people. So, um,
Yeah, I do think though that sometimes we are confusing, right?
(33:47):
There's that prayer in in Psalm 122, where we are
applying that to Israel now and we're praying for that
kind of peace to happen to them apart from accepting
Jesus and living under the reign of God. And so
I think just sometimes we get a little confused in
our theology by the things that we're praying, you know, um.
(34:11):
So, I think, you know, as concerns us, and of course,
you know, um, the US with other nations, we want
peace for the world. We want an absence of war,
I think for our lives individually, we want to seek
peace and good relationships with our neighbors who don't know God.
And then, of course, above and beyond all that, there's
(34:33):
this amazing prayer that Jesus brought us, uh, taught us
to pray, which is, you know,
Father in heaven, how Lord be your name, Your kingdom come,
Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
That that's the thing that we are ultimately looking towards,
that we are working for, right? And that we have,
(34:55):
you know, um, seeking first the kingdom of God as
Jesus put it in the sermon on the Mount. So, yeah. Mike,
what say you?
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yes, I agree. I mean, I think first and foremost,
the peace of God has actually been made for us
through Jesus Christ. So ultimately, all peace comes through him.
He's actually the prince of peace. So I think in
one sense when we're praying.
For the peace of Israel from a New Testament perspective. So,
(35:24):
looking at the Old Testament still as the very word
of God, and yet through the lens of the advent
of the Messiah, Jesus. And as we do that, I think, uh,
the prayer of
Our heart remains, but in a sense, the focus is
on the need for Israel to be saved. They need
the gospel. They need Jesus Christ. They need him desperately.
(35:47):
They can't have the peace of God while simultaneously rejecting
the prince of peace. So I've, I've shared this before, and,
and it was a shock to me when I first
discovered it, but, you know, 99 points, I think it's
4 or 99.4%, 99.6% of those living in the land
(36:07):
of Israel reject Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior,
and of that 0.4.6% that are Christians, they're mostly Arab Christians.
So I think one.
to pray for the peace of Israel as a New
Testament Christian is to pray that they might be saved. That's,
that's first and foremost. And then I think as Charles said,
(36:29):
more broadly in general, I do think it's right to
pray for temporal peace.
And there seems to always be conflict in the Middle East,
particularly regarding Israel. And as Christians, we believe all human
beings are made in the image of God. Any time
an image bearer is being killed, and to be honest,
regardless of which news sources you listen to and which
(36:51):
narratives you buy into, a real basic fact of the
matter that's indisputable is image bearers are being killed. And,
and I think that's something that as Christians, um.
We ought to lament that and we certainly ought to
be praying for peace in any conflict, whether it's there
in Israel or elsewhere and I think obviously as Christians,
(37:15):
obviously Israel is near and dear to our heart, so
obviously it's going to receive particular attention and prayer, but
that also doesn't mean that we neglect to pray for
the peace of the world, the nations around us, even
for our own country as well.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
Good points, guys. Thank you for bringing them up here
on Pastor's Perspective, and Lydia, thank you for calling in
with your question. 888-564-6173 is the number, and now we're
gonna go to Wildemar and speak to Mariel. Hey there, Mariel,
welcome to Pastor's Perspective.
She hung up.
(37:53):
What happened to Marabel? Did I hang up on her?
Maybe I did. I'm sorry. Call us back, Marabel.
I apologize if that was my fault. I don't think
it was, but just, just saying. So, uh, let me
read a question that was sent in online really quick.
This is from Zoriah, who sent us, uh, this on Facebook.
My mother is 75 and has moved back into my
(38:14):
home after being kicked out of every family member's house
because she's disrespectful and angry. I am so tired. I'm
an only child. Today, she said she wishes she never
gave birth to me.
I'm trying to be a good daughter, but I'm going crazy.
I have a small studio apartment, and I have no escape.
(38:34):
I love her, but I can't deal with her. I
believe she's in the beginning stages of something, because when
I told her she is not in a relationship with
Elon Musk, she turned on me and cussed me out badly, embarrassingly.
Please help me know what to do. I can't live
like this. Also, she does tarot cards and burns sage,
(38:55):
even when I told her not to do those occult
things in my home. Please help me make sense of this. Mike,
what do you say to Zariah?
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Yeah, I'm, I'm so sorry to hear that. What a
terrible circumstance, uh, to be in, and I feel bad
both for Zora and for her mom because it sounds
like she uh may be going through some very serious
uh health issues, so.
I didn't hear it and it sounded like, well, maybe
she's in the beginning stages, so I think the first
(39:26):
thing to do would probably what I would advise is
to get a diagnosis, see a medical professional, is she,
is this Alzheimer's dementia, something like that if you like
just some of the and obviously I've dealt with this
with some of our uh family members.
And, and, and people in the church, uh, their family
(39:46):
members as they've gotten older and some of the things
she described, you know, obviously like, you know, the being
married to Elon Musk thing, you know, um, the, the
every family owns kicking it just not, you know, the
anger and saying things that are, you know, very mean and.
Uh, just probably not something that that person would have
(40:08):
said many years ago, so I think definitely that's the
place to start is to have her see a medical professional,
see if you can get a diagnosis on that. And
then as far as you know, doing the tarot cards
and stuff like that, I mean, it is your house.
I mean in this kind of way as possible if
you've asked and she's not doing it. I, I don't.
(40:31):
I think you have to keep things that you believe
are wrong or evil in your home, so I think
you can take those things. I know some people might
know you have to let her keep her tarot cards
imagine so I personally, I don't think so and and
I don't know that she even means to do this,
but I do think it's disrespectful if someone has you.
(40:52):
Into their home, you know, they're welcoming, opening their arms
to you and then doing things that uh they've asked
you not to do. So, you know, and I don't
believe that's good for her to be doing anyway.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
Yeah, I mean, I just, heart goes out to you, Soraya,
and just
Yeah, it's just so hard to watch uh a parent
and just, um, or grandparent, their life kind of deteriorate and,
of course, their mental state to see them kind of
become this different person and of course, direct that at you.
So my heart really truly goes out to you and
just like Mike was saying, I think, just encourage you
(41:26):
if there are, you know, you said you're an only
child with there are other family members or close friends
to really invite them in and just ask for help
in this season.
Uh, in caring for your mother and then of course,
you know, just getting some professional help and diagnosis, um,
I think are the, are the next right step to take. Um,
(41:47):
and I think just the stuff that Mike was saying too,
you know, uh, of course, this comes down to personal
conscience and, and what you're good with, but I do think,
you know, I, I would really encourage you to not
make minor things, major things, um, you know, and I
think sometimes it's hard, right? We kind of focus on like,
Well, there's this thing that they're doing and this and
they're in my home, but it really does sound like
(42:08):
your mother is just not in her right mind. And
I think that in these situations, I would just encourage you,
you're gonna have to lean into Jesus, just to have
grace for those things, you know, just that she's doing
where she's not in the right mindset and, you know,
she's doing things that she wouldn't normally do. She's being unreasonable.
And I just want to kind of
(42:29):
Um, just walk down that kind of thought with you
for a moment. I think in this season, this is a,
this is a season where you might just have to
lean into the Lord Jesus in a way like never before,
you know, and just really, um, seek his comfort and
his presence that he knows what it's like to be
taken advantage of. Uh, he knows what it's like to
(42:51):
be screamed at and berated and none of it is right,
none of it is justifiable, uh, but this is your mother.
And I just want you to know that the Lord
is with you and that he will strengthen you as
you just lean into him and this, you know,
By God's grace could actually be um such a sanctifying
(43:13):
um season of life for you as you lean into Jesus.
And you know, there's probably deep hurt in these things that,
you know, you're not gonna be able to work out
with your mother, but the Lord can attend to those
things and really draw them out of you, and you
can cast your cares on Him and you can really
(43:33):
experience him shouldering that burden.
Uh, for you and taking away your shame and your guilt.
And so I'm just gonna pray, uh, to that end
for you. Yeah, I think that's a dilemma when we're
told to honor our parents, but yet they're acting like,
so where's that fine line of how do I handle this?
And I think that's what Zoriah's calling in with or
(43:56):
or sending in her question. Mike, did you have another thought?
Speaker 2 (44:00):
Just to follow up with Char said, I think that's,
it's so wise just, you know, to really pray to
have the compassion of Christ, uh, for her mother, you know, again,
especially um when there can be mental health issues and
decline and things like that, and I've, I've seen this
before where, you know.
(44:23):
People can say some of the most horrible, awful things, um,
and it's hard to say, well, don't, don't take it seriously,
don't let it bother you, it's, it's, you know, it's,
it's not even really them, you know, they, they don't
understand uh what they're saying, you know, and I think.
It's easy to say that, but of course it's very,
(44:43):
very hard to do, you know, because it is coming
from that person and it's, but I do think that just,
you know, as Jesus was even able to pray from
the from the cross, Father, forgive them for they do
not know what they do, you know, and I think
that is the spirit of Christ, and I think that's
something that that Paul is saying we have the mind
of Christ, that that's what.
(45:05):
The gospel gives to us and I think this is
though we would never ask for this, we would never
wish this on anyone on either side of it, right?
But nevertheless, the Lord often walks us through valleys we
didn't ask to be in, but he promises to be
with us and so I think this can be a
journey of this.
discipleship that is extremely formative and getting to know Christ
(45:30):
and the fellowship of His sufferings.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Absolutely. Yeah. And I think just to reiterate, that you
can't do it alone, right? So reaching out to your
Christian brothers and sisters in your church or family members
like you're just gonna need a lot of support in
this season.
Yep. Her name is Zoriah, so you guys are team
of listeners and viewers, write down her name in your
(45:52):
prayer journal and remember to keep her and your mom,
her mom in your prayers. 888-564-6173. Let's go to MJ.
Welcome to Pastor's perspective, MJ.
Uh, good afternoon, sir. Hi. And um my question that
I have was that, how do you deal or how
(46:13):
do you go about people who are mourning, uh, people when,
when someone is in the hospital dying or, uh, you know, they,
they say, you know, uh, we're ready to put, put
the plug or whatever. What do you say to those people? What,
what do you
How do you go about that? Um, we had a
(46:35):
case where we had to do the same thing, and
we constantly, constantly wonder for ourselves if we did the
right thing. And later on, we started doing research and
looking around to where there was people who were still alive,
even though they say, you know, there's no brain activity
(46:57):
or whatever, they were still alive.
I mean, like I was mentioning to someone else, I,
I saw a case of a woman who was still
pregnant while in coma and gave birth to a baby.
And so, how do you go about that? Like, how
(47:18):
do you know? Because based on that till now, now
I come, it comes to my mind has changed a
lot to where
God is the say so the only one who can say,
you know, he's, he or she is dead already, or
whatever it is, and whenever you found family or close
(47:38):
friends or whoever, how do you come along and extend.
A word, a grace, hope. How, how do you go
about that? Yeah, sure, we'll start with you. Yeah, goodness.
I mean, I, I don't know, MJ, if this is
like a, a hypothetical situation or if this is, you know,
something that you're personally dealing with in a family situation
(48:01):
or a friend, but yeah, these are just such sensitive
issues and um I think, you know, like, unless an
individual has some kind of like deep connection and
Type of, you know, relationship where they are, you know, uh,
someone just of deep wisdom that has been able to
give guidance to a family. I just feel like this
(48:22):
is one of those kind of, um, hands off type
of situations. I feel like that is something that a
family has to decide together.
And, and make that decision. And of course, you know,
the question that, you know, on at least on the
screen is, you know, what does the Bible say about this?
And I think in particular, you know, right, the Bible
is written long before we had the technology to keep
(48:45):
people on life support, right? And so, of course, right, the,
the scriptures would say that our, our objective should always
be to save life, right? But now we have this,
you know, godlike ability that we can keep a body.
Uh, you know, quote unquote alive without brain activity, right?
(49:06):
And so I do think that there is kind of
this weird space that we find ourselves in because of
technology with this power that, you know, it's like, wow,
who has the wisdom to actually discern these things? And so,
I think it's only by
You know, just deep prayer and deep wisdom, you know,
that we make these decisions. And, you know, as you said,
(49:26):
we've heard stories where, man, OK, there's no brain activity or,
you know, pronounced dead, and yet pulled the plug and
then somebody came back to life, you know, or, you know,
being in a coma for all this time and then
all of a sudden, you know, awaking, right? So there
are those incredible miraculous stories that we hear of. And
so at the end of the day, I think what
we need to know, I think is that um
(49:48):
I think God knows our hearts, and he, and he
holds us responsible in situations like this for our intentions, right? Like,
you know, I know that there are probably families that
are put in situations where they can't possibly afford the
astronomic bills to keep, you know, someone in this situ,
they have no choice but to do this. And I
don't think God is saying, oh well, if you would
(50:10):
have just held on for 5 more minutes, you know,
I was gonna resuscitate them, I think.
You know, we're getting into the space sometimes I think of,
you know, um,
You know, uh, kind of, so I'm sorry, I'm tongue
tied all of a sudden, uh, but, you know, questions
about the character of God. Is God withholding, right? Is
(50:30):
he the kind of go, well, you know, if you
only did a little bit more than I would, and
that is not the God that we find in the
New Testament, right?
Uh, he is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger, abounding
in steadfast love, and so we can be certain that
with these difficult, um, life circumstances that we do, you know,
the best according to the wisdom that we have, the
(50:52):
ability that we have, and God is gracious and compassionate. Mike.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
Yeah, I mean, it definitely depends on where you are
in this scenario for example, if this is not happening
to you or your family, you are a friend of someone,
a brother and sister in Christ of someone who is
dealing with this. I think again the number one thing
is just being available and being present, you know, very
often I think.
(51:19):
People need just basic things, number one, just someone to
listen to them because likely they're overwhelmed. Likely if they're
the ones asking these questions, well, what about this? Are we,
are we saving life or prolonging death, you know, what
are we doing? And they're overwhelmed with all these things and,
and I think, and really who, who can bear.
That who who can handle that we're we're not sufficient
(51:41):
of ourselves for these kinds of things. So I think
having someone to lean on just someone maybe you don't
necessarily have an answer, but you can listen they can
get it out because it's all bottled up and then
I think practical acts of service very likely in situations
like this family is are exhausted, you know, the constant trips.
To hospice or the hospital up all night thinking about,
(52:04):
you know, the, the bills and decisions that need to
be made and many times family don't agree with each other.
I literally was just having a scenario like this with
a friend of mine where part of the the real
pain is, I mean, it's not even just the situation.
with the family member who's dying, which is bad enough
on its own, but very stark disagreement, heated disagreement over
(52:26):
a course of action within the family. And so, you know,
and they're just, they're beat but then they have families
of their own, they're trying to support and maintain while
also
Dealing with a situation like this, so I think you
know acts of service practically, hey, can we help you?
Can we, you know, do you need any food? Can
we drop off groceries? can we run any errands for you?
(52:48):
things like that and then I think if you're the
one actually involved in the situation I I tell people
I know this sounds morbid but it's better that you
think about these things before it happens.
Um, a book that I came across years ago that
I think is phenomenal for thinking through and walking through
(53:09):
all the things that even Char was bringing up is
a book entitled The Christian Art of Dying Learning from Jesus.
It was written.
Uh, by Alan Verahy, who was an ethics professor at
Duke Divinity School, and he was actually, and keep in mind,
he was not just a, you know, academic theologian, he
was actually on the ethics committee of Duke University Hospital.
(53:31):
So he was involved for
For setting principles, rules, regulations over actual real life scenarios,
but he kind of takes a look at the dying
of Jesus and the Bible. What can we learn from that?
He looks at Christian history. What does it mean to
die a good death?
What is that? What is it? What is a good death?
He deals with what he calls the myth of medicalization,
(53:55):
where now in the modern scientific era, we, it's almost
like people can't admit somebody's dying. Oh, they're, they're sick,
you know, nobody goes to the hospital to die. They're
just sick and they'll get better. And sometimes there's an unwillingness, inability,
and some Christians even feel like they're not being faithful,
like they're not having faith that they believe that, oh no,
this person is, is dying. God's calling them home and
(54:15):
And so it's a great great book even if you
don't agree with everything that he says it's gonna get
you thinking about the right things so I think that
and that's for anyone so for the caller I think
this is something that could actually even help you understand
what they're going through decision.
They're gonna have to be making thinking through it if
(54:36):
they do ask you for some thoughts there may be
things in there that could be helpful for them and
then of course when, and it really it's not, it's
not a matter of if but when we need to
go through this with our own family, I think we'll
be better prepared.
Speaker 1 (54:52):
All right, so that book that Mike just mentioned, it's
called The Christian Art of Dying, Learning from Jesus by
the author Alan Verhey, V E R H E Y.
Thank you, MJ, for calling in with your question today
on Pastor's Perspective, and that is all the time we
have on today's episode. If you missed any part of
it or just want to hear it again, it'll be
archived really.
(55:12):
Soon on Facebook, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify. And if
you've got a question for us, if you tried calling
in today, we couldn't put you on. So sorry, we
will be back again tomorrow between 3 and 4 in
the afternoon. For Char Broderson and Mike Chatick, I'm Brian Perez.
God bless you guys. Thanks for listening and watching Pastor's Perspective.
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