October 9, 2025 • 56 mins
Pastors' Perspective is a one-hour call-in program where listeners can call in and get answers to questions about the Bible, Christianity, family, and life. The program is live Monday through Friday from 3:00 PM - 4:00 PM Pacific. You can call 888-564-6173 to ask your questions.
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Speaker 1 (00:17):
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm Brian Perez filling
in for Michael David, or at least it feels that
way because Mike's been here more than I have this week,
but it is so great to be back with you today,
at least for one day here on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173
is the number to call. We're going to be here
until 4 o'clock to answer the questions.
You have about the Bible, the Christian faith, just about
(00:40):
anything that's on your mind, give us a call at 888-564-6173.
And here to answer your questions once again, we've got
Brian Broderson from Echoes of Mercy.com and Phil Metzger, the
pastor of Calvary San Diego. Hey guys, what's going on?
Hi there. Hey there, and what's going on with you,
(01:02):
Brian Perez, because you've been, uh, absent. I've been on assignment,
on assignment, fulfilling your civic duty, yes, yes, and it's
still not done. So, uh I likely will not be
here tomorrow. The dreaded.
Jury duty, yes, but so far it's fun. I, I.
(01:23):
Brian knows this because we've had this conversation. I have
been um uh actually a jury foreman on one occasion
and several times to going through the process. And we
were just saying, you know, everybody who gets a notice
in the mail that they have to serve jury duty,
I think they just want to gouge their eyes out
(01:45):
after they've rolled their eyes that very instant.
Um, but I can say from experience, it's, it is
an interesting, um, experience, and so it's not as bad
as as one might think.
Um, but I'm just hopefully beyond that stage of life
(02:06):
where they contact me because I did it already. You
can be, no, no, if you can be president, you
can still do jury duty at your, is that how
it works? Oh yeah, president, I would be a young president, uh,
you know, based on what we've seen here in recent
years young according to the way we run elections, yeah.
(02:27):
I, uh, I got, I, you know, I've never had
a jury duty because I was overseas, right, yeah, and
then I finally got one, last year and I was
like I wasn't eye gouging. I was like, oh, how fun!
I feel American, like I feel like I belong, you know,
like I had been.
In a club and I, I had to go down.
I couldn't call in. I had to go down and
(02:48):
I get down there and no one got picked. They
just ended up not having any that day. I was
so disappointed. Was that it? And then you were done.
And I, and now I'm here complaining about it. Never
happened again. No, that's it. Well, you know, I'll let
them know that you're just hoping to get another notification. Fingers.
Anybody from the San Diego court is listening right now.
(03:10):
Make sure to send Mr. Phil Metzger.
Uh, summits, a personal invitation. That's right, invitation. You're welcome
any day you want, buddy. That's awesome.
All right, so call in with your questions at 888-564-6173.
You can also send in your questions online. We've got
several ways for you to do that.
There's the Pastor's Perspective Facebook Messenger. You can type in
(03:33):
your questions, send it in that way, or you can
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that QR code and that
It'll take you right to the pastor's perspective page on Kwave.com,
(03:55):
which is how Carlton got his question to us, and
Carlton asks, what's with this restoration process that many ministers
go through now when they fall off the wagon, so
to speak. I became familiar with it a few years ago,
and it seems with so many pastors and ministers
Falling down from grace in recent years, it is becoming
(04:15):
more widely expressed. Is, is this a process established in
the Bible? Can you refer me to particular scripture references? Now,
most recently this came up because of, uh, Pastor Tony Evans,
we heard something about that, but, uh, Phil, what do
you know about the restoration process?
Well, as a, as like a term or like some
(04:37):
kind of like, you know, like official thing doesn't exist.
I think every, every church, every kind of uh ministry
group has their own, either has their own process or
just makes one up as they go. It's, uh, you know,
because every situation is unique, every circumstance is different. So
I don't know of any like particular, but I, I,
(04:58):
I do agree with the uh Carlton writing in like, yeah,
we're hearing about this a lot more.
I'm personally looking like as a pastor of a church
and as somebody who's like, you know, overseeing multiple, you know,
church locations and pastors, I'm always looking at several factors
when I, um, think of restoration. So I personally don't
(05:18):
have any like one particular like one size fits all practice, um,
but I, I'm I'm looking at several things for restoration. One,
you know, what is the sin that we're talking about, right? It, it's, it's,
that's a highly like
This whole thing with like Tony Evans that I'm very,
very unfamiliar with, but I think everybody is because it's
(05:38):
kind of unknown, right? And so it's purely speculation. So
for the things that I've ever had to deal with,
I'm looking at what kind of sin are we talking about.
Is this sexual sin? Is this a gambling addiction? Is this, um,
you know, there's just so many like.
The the spectrum of what that could be is so varied.
So depending on that is gonna drastically change the way
(06:00):
that like restoration or if there could even be restoration
would look like. But I, I've never, I've never practiced
the one size fits all. Every case is unique. Um,
I don't know, Brian, do you have any thoughts to that?
Well, I, yeah, I mean, I'm, I, everything you said,
I second that, um.
(06:22):
And like you said to Phil, the particular sin is
um something that has to be taken into consideration.
Um, and you know, some people have sinned egregiously in
the context of being in ministry and, um, others, you know,
(06:43):
have sinned, but not in a disqualifying way, except nowadays.
Uh, it seems like people want to disqualify you over
anything and everything. So I, I think especially today, you
have to have a lot of wisdom when you're navigating
these things and, and, you know, dealing with the, these
(07:05):
kinds of issues, um.
Yeah, so
Mm.
OK, uh, very good. Thank you, Carlton for sending in
your question on the pastor's perspective page on Kwave.com. 888-564-6173
is our number. Let's do one more that was sent
in online and then we'll go to the phones 888-564-6173
(07:28):
our number once again. Danny in Murrieta.
About 1 Kings chapter 8 verses 23 through 53. Let
me read those 31 verses really quick before we know. I'm,
I'm joking, you guys can read that on your own time. But, uh,
if you guys want to look that up real quick,
Brian and Phil, uh, 1 Kings chapter 8 verses 23
through 53, Danny asks, could this possibly be considered the
(07:53):
sinner's prayer for the day? They didn't have Jesus there
at the time, and it shows us how we can
go about knowing the Lord.
And there's no exact sinner's prayer in the Bible, or
is there right here in
Uh, 1 Kings chapter 8. Your perspective, please, as always,
I love listening and learning from this program. Right. Well,
(08:13):
I'm just gonna take a guess because I don't have
um those verses in front of me.
And um.
My trusty friend did not set a Bible in.
Mhm.
That wasn't me. I didn't have Bible duty today.
(08:33):
Johnny, but
Yes, so I, I'm looking at the, it's it Solomon's
prayer is that what it is? Yeah, the prayer of dedication.
Solomon blesses the people. Yeah, I mean, uh, the sinner's prayer, no,
I mean a prayer prayed by Solomon.
In the context of the temple.
And what the temple would, would mean for Israelites and
(09:00):
how they would, um, you know, Solomon is saying, basically, Lord,
we're dedicating this temple to you. We know that, um,
The heaven of heavens can't contain you, but we're just
trusting that your, your presence will be here. And so,
and then he just goes through a list of, of
things that might happen with the people over the ages.
(09:23):
And if this happens and we turn to you and
we look to this place, Lord, hear our prayer, and he,
you know, says that over and over again. And so,
I mean, it, you know, it's a great prayer.
In the context at the time, I think it certainly
can inspire us and have relevance to us today, but I,
(09:45):
I wouldn't say it's a, it's a sinner's prayer. I mean,
in one sense, I guess it is sinners who are
praying and thanking God that, you know, he has mercy
on them and remembering them because of what is going
on in this house. It's a house of a sacrifice
really as well, you know, the, this is where the
(10:06):
atonement is being made, so.
Um, yeah, but, but a sinner's prayer like, hey, um,
all right, you want, you want to know Jesus here.
Let me lead you in this prayer. Open, let's, let's
get a Bible. Let's open ver Kings 8. And those,
how many verses was it, Brian? 31, 31 verses. Yeah, I,
I think that would be a little overkill.
(10:27):
And it's funny when, yeah, I was just gonna say
it's funny when you said that like cause I I'll
say the same thing to people they're like, well, like.
You know, what I, I've never prayed the sinner's prayer,
and I'm like, have you ever prayed? Because if you did,
you prayed a sinner's prayer right there, Bubba. Uh, every
prayer I've ever prayed was a sinner's prayer. Of course,
we're talking about that like you just said, Brian, that
kind of like, you know, I'm inviting Jesus into my life.
(10:48):
And I often think like, if we're gonna like take
an Old Testament passage, by the way, as you already said,
there is no sinners prayer in the Old Testament like that.
It didn't, I mean, there was no Messiah yet that
had come and died for our sins, but
I think of Daniel's prayer and Daniel 9 to me
as the like greatest like kind of sinner's prayer because
there he is praying, you know, here he is in
(11:09):
captivity for sins he did not commit that the nation committed,
and he's crying out, Lord, forgive us and heal us.
To me that's a great sinner's prayer.
Very good. Thank you, Danny, for sending in your question
on the pastor's perspective on the subject of the sinner's prayer,
you know, there, there, of course, you hear some people say, oh,
(11:30):
it's not even in the Bible, and but you shouldn't
pray the sinner's prayer because it isn't in the Bible. And,
and then other people are very much the opposite, like,
what do you mean you didn't say the sinner's prayer? I, I,
are you saved? How could you be saved without saying
the sinner's prayer? So it's uh.
Uh, you know, I think it's, it's a
(11:52):
It's a beautiful opportunity to put into simple words, um,
the request for God to forgive your sins and Jesus
to come into your life. Um, do you have to
say it? No. Um, I love the way Paul just
brings it down to the simplest, um.
(12:13):
You know, it's, it's basically an action from the heart,
but he brings it down to whoever calls on the
name of the Lord shall be saved. And I remember
one time, um, visiting a a a person who was dying,
and I, and I was thinking through like, OK, I,
I wanna share the Lord with them and I, you know,
what do, what do I, what am I trying to
(12:35):
accomplish here? And it was basically, you know, I, I
want to get him to receive Jesus and
Gosh, they're kind of going in and out of consciousness
and how, how am I gonna, how are we gonna
walk through the prayer? This was, you know, 40 years ago. Um,
but all of a sudden I thought, wait, whoever calls
on the name of the Lord shall be saved. I thought, OK,
(12:55):
that really simplifies it right there. That's all we're talking about,
you know, somebody just saying, Jesus, save me. Jesus have
mercy on me. Jesus, forgive me, whatever, whatever, you know.
That's it. Yep. Mm. But aren't you, Brian, I'm, I'm
curious how you feel about this. I remember like when
I first started in ministry, and then you get a
little legalistic, like, well, we don't need a sinner's prayer
(13:16):
just like you said. Well, that, that doesn't matter. I'll
tell you what, as a pastor, I'm so thankful that
there's been people that have worked out this kind of
idea of a sinner's prayer, and I'll tell you, cause
when you're like talking to somebody in the moment.
And I've had that like in my head now. I
don't draw a total blank, you know, like, and I
know it sounds weird, like, no, God will lead you.
I know, but and then sometimes I get in the way,
(13:38):
I guess. I don't know, but I'm thankful that like
I've heard, I've heard Greg Laurie share the sinner's prayer
a gazillion times, and I'm, I'm seriously.
for that. But like you said, I just got a
call in the name of the Lord, but sometimes I'm
thankful that I have that like kind of I've had
that repetition in my heart enough times. And, and I
think for people too, it is, I, I often tell people, look,
(13:59):
you know, this is a, this is a point of
reference for you. You, you'll be able to remember back
to this moment in time where you said these words.
And so, you know, I, I think true, it's a
good thing.
We don't want to be legalistic about it, but I, I,
we don't want to be critical of it either. Yeah,
that's good. All right, Danny, thanks for sending in your question.
(14:21):
Now we're gonna go to the phones. 888-564-6173 is our number.
Pastor's Perspective is the name of the program where you
call in and get a pastor's perspective on your questions. 888-564-6173.
Terry in Huntington Beach listening on the Kwave app. Hello,
thanks for calling in today. How can we help you?
(14:42):
Hello, everyone. I have a question about Mark, um, 11,
to be specific. It's when Jesus is talking to the
scribes and the Pharisees about all their rituals and all
that kind of business. And then in um 11, I
don't understand what he's saying there.
When he uses the word, let's see, and this, this
book says Corbin, but you say if a man says
(15:04):
to his father or mother, whatever profit you might have
received from me is Corbin, that is a gift from God. Mhm.
I don't understand like the whole scenario there.
Yeah, but Jesus is.
You know, the Pharisees, of course, are, are opposing Jesus
(15:25):
and he's pointing out to them that they have, um,
Circumvented the word of God through their traditions and so
he gives the example. God says honor your father and
your mother that's God's word but then you say, uh,
(15:47):
if a man says, so Corbin means a gift. So
if you say, oh what I was.
I, I was gonna honor my father and mother with this,
but instead I'm gonna give it to God and then
that exempts me from having to take care of my
father and my mother. So Jesus says through doing that,
you're nullifying the word of God. You're taking, you're taking
(16:08):
a human commandment and you're putting it above what God
said to do.
OK, thank you so much. That clarifies it to Max.
You're welcome. Phil, what would be like a modern day
example of somebody doing that?
What would you say? Um, oh, that's a good question, um,
because I, I wanna be careful on the examples they use, uh,
(16:29):
a good question, like, yeah, so I'm, I, I've got
my gift that I wanna, uh, I think it's anytime
that I'm gonna like use religiosity as an excuse to avoid.
Certain human contact that I should be, like, like, like, oh, I, I,
I'm sorry, I couldn't play with, I, I couldn't, you know,
put the kids to bed because I was too busy
having to read my Bible. And my wife's exhausted and
desperately in need of my help and support, and I'm
(16:51):
doing spiritual things while, while she's doing the unspiritual things. I, I,
I mean, there's an example.
Or like what I'm, what did you say? Uh oh,
he's about to confess something.
Or like when I'm, uh, you know, sitting at home
reading my Bible and Cheryl is, you know, working all
(17:13):
over the house and, you know, can you do this, honey, honey,
don't bother me. I'm reading my Bible right now, you know. No,
I can't take out the trash. You can do that
right now. That's, you know, now I got to be spiritual.
Yeah, I kind of hit a chord. Sorry, I shouldn't
I have done that once or twice in my life,
you know.
You learn from experience. Terry, thanks for calling in today.
(17:36):
Thank you. All right. God bless. 888-564-6173 is the number
to call us today until 4 o'clock. Let's go to
Dave in Santa Ana, listening on FM 107.9 K wave. Hey, Dave,
what's your question for us today?
Hey guys, yeah, so, um, I have a son who's, uh, uh,
(17:56):
up and coming actor in Hollywood, and he's in a, um,
horror slash, you know, you know how the modern day
horror movies are, where they're there's some horror in there,
but then it's kind of funny too. And there's no
sexual content and, um, they're having a premiere tomorrow night.
(18:17):
He invited me.
I feel a little convicted to go, um, and I
was just wanted your take on it. I know there's
language in it and, but there's no sexual content, and
then there's the gore. Yeah. And, um, so I, you know,
I want to support him and, um, you know, my
wife and I really want to support him. He's a
(18:39):
He's a gay young man and
Um, you know, so we really love on him and, and, uh,
he's always welcome in our house and, you know, he just, he,
he invited me to it and I, I just, I
feel kind of like torn whether conviction, whether I should
go or, you know, let him know that, you know,
(19:01):
I'm convicted. Yeah. Well, uh, Phil, I'd love to hear
what you have to say. I'll just, I'll just start
with this, you know, Jesus, um,
You think of Matthew, you know, so Matthew's a tax collector,
we read about him in scripture and Jesus call, and
you know, as a tax collector, we find places in
(19:21):
the New Testament where, uh, sinners and tax collectors are synonymous,
you know, those, those are the people that the, the
self-righteous religious people.
Like, you know, what is he doing hanging out with
sinners or tax collectors. So, tax collectors were looked down upon, to,
to say the least, by the religious elite. So Jesus
(19:42):
passes by Levi, uh Matthew.
And he says to him, follow me. And so Matthew
gets up and begins to follow him. And then it
tells us in the Gospel of Matthew that Matthew held
a feast, uh, in his home, and Jesus was invited,
and Matthew also invited many tax collectors and sinners, and
(20:07):
Jesus went. And so I think that
You know, sometimes I think as Christians, we can, we
can almost become
Ah, you know, kind of prudish or, you know, in,
in some way, we just, oh no, I can't go
there because I, I might get defiled, and yet, no, we,
(20:29):
we should be strong enough and mature enough to be able,
and not everybody can do this, but you know, at
a certain stage in life, you should be strong enough
and mature enough to walk into a context like that
and just so this is what it is, and it's not, OK, OK,
they use they use bad language, they use bad language everywhere.
I mean, like, you know.
I was reading this article the other day about all
the politicians now who, who find that cussing is like a,
(20:51):
you know, it's, it's part of what they're doing and
the funny art, the article was funny because it was saying,
you know, all of these guys sound like idiots, he said,
but you know, Donnie from Queens, you know, he can
pull it off because he's from Queens. Of course he's
talking about the president. Yes. So anyway, I know that's
a little bit of a distraction there, but, uh, from the,
from the main point.
Uh, what do you think, Phil? I it's, it's interesting
(21:15):
because like, I think it's pretty rare when when somebody
will come on and say like, you know, I have
these convictions and all, it's, it's like, I can't, I
can't think of a time when we ever said, oh,
go against your convictions, but I, I gotta tell you,
I felt the exact same way. Seriously, Dave, I think like,
I mean, dude, we're, we're all adults, you're not, you're
not a 14 year old, that would be a different conversation,
(21:35):
you know, seriously, like, and not to be silly about it,
but like, you know, if you were, then it would
be like, yeah, you probably shouldn't go to that, but
This is your kid, this is a major big deal,
and it sounds to me like and I don't want
to put words in your mouth, dude, but like your
conviction is might be a little bit more cultural than
it is actually like Christian.
In the sense that like, and I'm famous, uh, I,
(21:56):
I've been very explicit on the show. I don't like
horror movies, but if my kid made a horror movie
that was kind of funny and had some cussing, I'm
going to it, um, more because I'm gonna support them
than because I feel like I'm like, your son probably
already knows you don't like, you know, kind of some
of what's going on in that. I think if it
was like sex.
(22:17):
explicit, this would be a different conversation, but because it's not,
and you made, you said it's very much not, and
it's kind of meant to be like a little slapsticky,
it sounds like a horror comedy is kind of slapsticky.
I don't know, man. I, I think if you can
push past that, I would, I would just go there
and cheer your son on. OK, a quick, quick story.
So I have a friend who is a um producer
(22:39):
director guy.
And, um, actually he's been living in, he, he's from
the UK and he's been living in uh New York
for the past few months because he's directing, uh, a
new horror film that's coming out and he's done several
films and, um, his mother, who's just a beautiful Christian lady,
(23:00):
she's like, now, son, like why?
Like the, but the language, you know, she's just like cringing.
And why can't you do something about that? And he's like, Mom,
I don't write the script, OK? I'm, I'm not the
one putting the words in people's mouths. I'm there to
produce and direct, and that's just, this is, this is
(23:21):
the job I got and this is what I gotta do,
you know, so we were talking about it, it was
just kind of funny, you know, that uh she was
expressing sort of her angst over like, oh gosh, no,
we did this film and
And you know, he's, he's a Christian actually, but he,
you know, this is the world that he that he navigates. So,
one of our, one of our mutual friends, Brian Hung
is a very well-known director and I have spent so
(23:43):
many times at premieres, uh, of his shows and just
thinking like, I can't believe I'm here. Like this is crazy,
you know, but just supporting him and the conversations that
happened afterwards and I don't know, I don't know, Dave,
if we're helping you or making you feel like worse
about the whole thing, but.
I, I just think like it's such a cool, I
mean this is very unique, right? And it's a cool
(24:03):
opportunity to support your kid. We don't get a lot
of those and we gotta grab those when we do
get them. I appreciate that.
I appreciate your advice and I think that's, that's, uh, well,
well received. And, um, yeah, it's tomorrow night so I'm
gonna go. Cool. Well, have fun and, um, I'm sure
your son's gonna be blessed that you came. Yeah, heck yeah.
(24:24):
All right, Dave, thanks for calling in today on Pastor's Perspective.
888-564-6173 is our number. Got about half an hour left
to go, 35 minutes, so I was I was telling
a story the other day, um, to a group of
Ministry people and I, I was, I was talking about how,
you know, there was a season in my life where
(24:44):
I got
Um,
You know, and I used the word prudish earlier, but I, I, I,
I just got kind of weirded out where, like, you know,
somebody was cussing around me or something, I was cringing,
you know, I was like, oh no, you know, they
said that that word and and I'll never forget. So I,
you know, I didn't grow up in a Christian home,
(25:06):
and I came from a pretty, pretty rough background, and
I came from a world where that was just the
way everybody talked around me, except my mother. My mother
never talked like that. Um.
But um I remember one time, uh, this is, this
is when we had moved to London and we were
planting a church and and one of the people who
ended up coming to Jesus in such a beautiful way,
(25:28):
he was like a a character out of a Dickens novel.
I mean, just like, you know, it's like, OK, this
I'm talking to a guy who, uh, Dickens wrote about.
But anyway, we, we were talking one day and he
was just, you know, using all kinds.
a very colorful language. And I was listening to him,
you know, looking him in the eye, and every time
(25:49):
he would say a word, I would just sort of
shudder and say like, oh my gosh, I can't believe
he's saying those words. And honestly, man, it was like
a moment where the Holy Spirit just slapped me upside
the head and just basically said, what is the matter
with you? And I'm like, oh, well, Lord, he's saying
bad words. And, you know, it was like, Lord.
Said, yeah. Have you ever heard bad words before? Um,
(26:10):
I think you actually used a lot of bad words
at one time in your life and you grew up
around bad words and it was just like the message was,
would you just get over to this and listen to
this guy. I'm working in his life. Well, that guy
came to Jesus in such a powerful way and to
this day, you know, he just has a beautiful walk
with the Lord, but it was I because sometimes as Christians,
we just get, we freak out over the wrong stuff.
(26:33):
It's all the time. It's OK, you know, I mean,
even sometimes people will tell me like, hey, you know, this,
this is a great film. It's really cool. You know,
there's some language in it and I'm like, I can
handle language. I am 68 years old. I can, I
can handle it.
All right. On a related note, we have a Facebook
question here, and Robert, we're gonna get you after the break,
(26:55):
only because we're coming up to the break and, uh,
I wanna make sure we give you more time, but
this question here I think we can answer in our
allotted time. It is from Chantelle, who writes, who asks,
is there any biblical references to point towards the reality
or the fact that Jesus has a sense of humor?
(27:16):
What would you guys say?
Um,
I
I do think there were probably some things that we,
we might not totally catch it, but I think in
the cultural context, um, if you were with Jesus, I
think you probably would have picked up on some stuff. But,
but I think the most
(27:38):
Obvious example of that being possible is when Jesus talks
about um the guy with the the beam in his eye, uh,
the plank in his eye, trying to get the splinter
out of the, the friend's eye, you know, I mean,
if you just picture that, it's a, it's a funny picture.
And I think when people heard Jesus say it, they
(28:00):
probably thought they probably cracked up. They thought, oh wow, yeah,
I mean that would be pretty ridiculous, wouldn't it? So
can you think of any other things I was, I
was thinking that's a great one because I didn't think
of it right away, but it's so true. I'm thinking
of the Sons of thunder calling these two dudes the
sons of thunder is like, I don't know. I mean,
maybe it wasn't meant to be funny, but it was
sure way of making a point.
Without insulting them, but kind of making it like lighthearted
(28:24):
a little bit, you know. Uh, I think Jesus definitely
had a, listen, kids love to be around him, and
kids don't like to be around sourpuss, kind of, you know, deadpan.
Kids like to be around people that make them feel safe,
and Jesus was that. Yeah, and, and you think of,
of humor as
It's, it's part of what God has instilled in us, um,
(28:49):
you know, through creating us. And so,
And I think if you, if you look at creation,
you think of the animal world, and I mean, there's
a lot of humor in, in that realm. So does
God have a sense of humor? I would say if
since we do, he must. So that's right, 100%.
(29:10):
All right, Chantal, thank you for sending in your question
on the pastor's perspective, uh, the pastor's perspective Facebook page.
That's what I wanted to say. All right, gonna take
a quick break and we'll be back with your questions.
What do you want to ask Pastors Brian Broderson and
Phil Metzger. Now is your chance. 8.
885646-173. If you're watching on Facebook, YouTube or Instagram, thank
(29:33):
you so much for watching. Please call. The number's right
there on the bottom of your screen, 888-564-6173. Operator is
standing by at 888-564-6173.
(30:17):
Hey, welcome back to Pastor's Perspective. I'm Brian Perez. Great
to be with you today. 888-564-6173 is our number. We've
got Brian Broderson from Echoes of Mercy.com here in the studio.
He is back with us this week. He's also teaching
this Sunday evening at Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa starts at 6:30.
(30:38):
You can get more details at no, back to Basradio.com/live.
And Phil Metzger's here too. He's the pastor at Calvary
San Diego, and he's joining us on Zoom.
Ready to go, guys. Ready for more? We're ready to go.
We had so much fun that first half. Let's jump in.
(30:58):
Let's have even more fun. Yeah. We'll begin with Robert
and Hemets. Welcome to Pastor's perspective, Robert.
Hey, how you doing? Great.
All right, hey, Pastor Brian, boy, I'm a big fan
of you, man. I, I just read your book, uh,
The Powers of Darkness and the Kingdom of God. Oh
(31:18):
my gosh, that is an excellent book. I'm gonna, I'm
gonna read it again and then give it to my son.
It was so good. Well, every Christian walk, you know,
read that. Thank you so much and I'm glad it
encouraged you.
Yeah, anyway, my question is on Luke 962, uh, it
says no one who puts his hand to the plow
(31:40):
and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God, uh,
in the context of, you know, being at a Bible
study and you know, if you try to, you know,
say that you, you know, amended your ways.
Is it inappropriate to talk about things of the past,
you know, you, you, you know, ill lifestyle, you know,
(32:03):
when you're younger.
Can you give an example maybe? What do you?
Well, actually there's somebody in the Bible study that uh
went to prison and uh every time you know he,
he starts talking about, you know, a verse he starts
referring back to, you know, when he's in prison, uh,
(32:25):
he's a born again Christian about 6 months. Uh, should
I just let him go or, you know, should I
correct him? What do you feel, is he?
Is he looking back on that with some
Kind of like glory in his past. No, I was,
(32:46):
I was on a 12 step program and a lot
of the people would go back to their past and
it's like they're getting an adrenaline rush about the past. Right, that's,
that's what I'm referring to. And is he doing that?
I think so.
Yeah, I think, I think it could be um.
(33:06):
you know, graciously to just say.
you know, maybe, maybe, maybe think about this. I mean, obviously, well,
not everybody has um a past that plays in uh
powerfully to their testimony. Uh, some people do, and I
don't think there's anything the matter with, with sharing your past,
(33:29):
but I, but I think there's, you know, for the
mature believer, there is the sense of
I think there's almost more of a reluctance because there's a, a,
a bit of shame over the past. Um, I think
the people who were too anxious to talk about what
big centers they were, I think that that's a, a
sign of, uh, immaturity to, you know, to put it
(33:53):
nicely and
But like you said, he's only been a Christian for
6 months. So I would, I would maybe point out
to him, you know, it, it sounds like you're, you're maybe, um,
putting a little too much, um,
Importance on.
(34:13):
How big of a sinner you were and maybe maybe
you need to back off on that a little bit.
What do you think, Phil? I mean, we, I mean
we've we've seen this, we've heard it, I mean, oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
and experience, yeah. I, I, I would even like even
how you can express that would be more like, you know,
kind of the idea like what Brian just said, but
like you're probably not meaning to do this, but this
might be how it's coming across like, you know, the,
(34:35):
the idea that like he's been a Christian 6 months,
he probably has no clue, like, I mean that's he's
a brand new believer and
He might just be like amazed at how far he's
come from and what he came out of and all, and,
and that that is kind of glorying in something, but
it may not be from an ill intention. So I,
I think like you said, Brian, you, you can kind
of bring it up. It's a great teaching moment to
bring it up, but maybe assuming that like he may
(34:58):
not know that is all is all I'm thinking there.
He may not know that.
Yeah, you, you might be kind of or or even
in a question, hey, are you missing those days? Because
sometimes it feels like that. And I wonder if that's
what you're intending to say. I'll bet you that dude
will be like, oh my gosh, no, that's not what
I meant at all. So those might be ways to
kinda have that conversation. Could it be too that Robert's
(35:22):
friend is maybe hearing other pastors and ministry leaders share
their testimony and it's always that.
You know, I once was this and now I'm this
and so he's just trying to do that because he
sees the impact that those ministers are having on
You know, people, so he's, he's just, you know, he's
got the zeal, he's doing it too, but I guess
there's that fine line of drawing so much attention or,
(35:42):
or the, the fear that somebody is, oh, when I was, uh,
he then I did this and I did that. But
now look at me. I'm wearing three piece suits to church. I'm,
you know, just making it seem like plug in my
ears when people are using bad words. Yes, yes, yes.
You know, I mean, I think that's totally possible. You
(36:02):
know what I found, and I, I've had to learn this, like, I,
I only have my experiences, right? And so sometimes I'll
pull from those, but it can be like kind of
too much. Like, you know, so like, you know, Brian,
you and I both spent a lot, a good chunk
of time in Europe, and sometimes I'll use those things
as like, and it's just because it's my experience. But
I realized because others didn't have that, they can feel
(36:24):
like kind of like out of that. And so it,
it doesn't connect. I think sometimes we can do that
about our past lives too. Yeah.
Yeah, and I, I, I think, I think what Phil
said before is, is really good. Yeah, just, you know,
kind of give him the benefit of the doubt, recognize
that he's a, a young believer and, and just encourage
(36:45):
him rather than, uh, it didn't sound like you, you know,
you're wanting to come down real hard on him, but,
but just be sensitive to that. And, um, you know, it's,
it's part of growing. I, I, I just remember, um,
Lots of people, you know, I, I have heard and
then had conversations with quite a few people over the
(37:06):
years where you had to say, you know, we're really
excited about what God did in your life, and man, it,
it's a radical story, but let's kind of, we don't
need to go into all that much detail about it,
and let's keep the focus on what Jesus did versus
uh what I used to do.
Oh, that's so true. Robert, thank you for your phone
(37:27):
call today on Pastor's Perspective. We've got a follow-up question
here from Steve and Irvine. Hey, Steve, what did you
want to ask?
Good afternoon, gentlemen. Good to hear from you guys. Yeah,
I was just, uh, driving here and I, I just
had a follow up question, maybe a discussion around the
gentleman that called in about, uh, supporting his son in the,
in the horror film, and man, you know, my heart
(37:49):
goes out to those people and, you know, being in
ministry here a bit myself, I often am convicted in
in this space and uh I just couldn't help but
Recall in so many places where we're having such liberation
in the Christian walk, where it says to come out
from among them, or to be above reproach as a leader,
(38:10):
especially we should be held to a higher standard whether
you're a dad, or whether you're a pastor or a volunteer.
And um, you know, I think there's a place for
both sides of the conversation. I just really wanted some
clarity on um I believe the way the scriptures talked
to me is that um the only time like Jesus
(38:30):
should really be to be led by the spirit to
um have an agenda, you know, to, to, to give
the opportunity to stand out and show that, um.
To mix the light with the darkness, so to speak,
is really um a better choice of uh life and
to celebrate something that seemingly is celebrating the kingdom of
(38:53):
darkness in today's society can uh can be considered.
Blending, I feel like, uh, conforming to the ways of
the world, and I just wanted to know what you
guys thought about that. I think that, I think I
know part of the answer, but, um, I would love
for the conversation to hear what you guys have to
say about being led by the spirit because I think
it's an individualistic, um.
(39:13):
You know, decision, and I, and I think that really, um,
otherwise we can be legalistic or we can be pagan,
you know, I think we gone from paganism to legalism
continue to.
Yeah, that, that's a great question, um, Steve, and I
appreciate your, uh, the gospels read to me, but what
do you guys think about that? I think, I think it's,
it's a critical time, especially with this, with the environment
(39:35):
politically and, you know, and I think there's really on
where your phone is doing something funky, so what do
you say?
Well, yeah, and it is a good question, and it's
a good, it's a good conversation, so I agree. Um, I, I,
I think Steve, like, it kind of like I wanna
go back to the, the analogy or the, the, the, the,
the story that Brian used about, you know, Jesus eating
(39:57):
with Pharisees. I think I think we need to really
like hone in on this idea that like,
The concept of like being or Jesus having meals with sinners,
excuse me, and then the Pharisees kind of accusing him of,
you're always around sinners. I think we need to like
learn to normalize the idea that being around and being
with people is not the same as acceptance. We, we, we're,
(40:18):
we're mixing those two ideas there that like
by being somewhere where we're becoming the kingdom of darkness
rather than like by being present. First of all, this
is art. We have to remember that this is art. The,
if you look at, you read the Bible, did you
know how many dark places the people of God were
in regularly? I mean, terrible and dark, dark like kingdom darkness, terrible.
(40:41):
And we have to remember that the light is, you know,
the light of God is greater than the darkness of
the world. And so I'm thinking, uh, you know, kind
of specific to, I know we could branch off to,
you're kind of wanting to branch off away from that dad,
but I wanna go back to the dad because this
is more personal to this person. This is about him
and his son and that relationship. So we can have
a theoretical conversation about light and darkness. Should I go
(41:01):
to those movies? Dude, I'm not going to that horror movie. Um,
it's just not in my, it's not, I don't want to.
Um, but the, the idea that like being around darkness
equals acceptance of darkness. I think we need to be,
I think there's some caution that we need to hold there.
Yeah, I, I think too, and I, again, like you said,
(41:21):
Phil and um Steve, you remember, I, I started the conversation.
With the example of Jesus and the invitation that Jesus
received to go into the house of um.
Uh, Matthew. And, and then I think too, you know,
we have, and Phil kind of touched on it, we
have two analogies that Jesus gives in Matthew chapter 5,
(41:45):
he says, uh, you are the salt of the earth
and you are the light of the world. And so
the idea behind you are the salt of the earth, uh,
is the idea of in, in the ancient world, of course,
salt was used predominantly as a uh
As a preservative. And so, you know, rather than stick
(42:08):
stuff in the refrigerator because they didn't have it or
the freezer, they salted everything and that preserved it. And
so when Jesus says you are the salt of the earth, he's,
he's saying you're, you know, you're the ones that are
going to keep the world from rotting in a sense.
But when you think of the analogy, you have to
remember that
The salt would do nothing for the preservation of the
(42:33):
meat unless it was rubbed into the meat. So in
other words, you, if you're, uh, if the salt never
connects with the meat, it doesn't do its job. So
if we're the salt of the earth, that means we're
gonna have to connect with people, um, just like Jesus
did in the house of Matthew. And, and then I
think to the light of the world. I mean, the,
(42:54):
you know, a light.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna leave here in a while and
I'm gonna go outside. I do not need a light
because it's already light, but I'm gonna need a light
when it gets dark. So, uh, the light is intended
for the darkness, and so if we're, uh, you know,
trying to stay away from the darkness,
(43:17):
Well, that's not what a light is for. A light
is to be turned on in the darkness. So, so we,
you know, so it, it's kind of the, even though
the Bible doesn't use this exact terminology like we do,
but it, but it is the ideas there, be in
the world but not of the world. And so, you know,
I think that we need to do a better job
at that. We need to be in the world, we
(43:39):
need to be around people and, and like you said, Phil,
and I think we discussed, this is a, I think
it the
The real moment here for the, the father is I
want to support my son who needs Jesus. And so I'm,
I'm just looking any way I can to build some
bridges and it's not gonna hurt me to hear some
(44:03):
Bad language and to see some.
Blood and guts. So, and to me this is where like,
this is where light and darkness lives in that it's
hard to like, if you just wanna generalize an answer,
and that's no disrespect to Steve. I think it's a
great conversation that he's allowing us to have. So thank you, Steve,
(44:24):
but
I think when you try to like just kinda create
that blanket like general idea, it does get a little wonky,
a little bit difficult, but light and darkness, the context
is so specific to the situation, to the moment, to
the opportunity, right? So like, if we just kind of
generally say, like, should I go to horror movies with
a bunch of swearing and
them. Well, that, it's gonna be real hard to, to, to, to,
(44:46):
to say, absolutely, that's where I need to be. But
then if you say, should I go and support my
son who's made this movie, who doesn't have a relationship
with Christ and really wants me to be there, uh, oh,
that just changed the whole conversation. So I think we
need to, like,
When, when we're talking about like the darkness of the world,
we're talking about specific context whereby we can represent the
(45:08):
light of Jesus. It's not just simply that we just
exist wherever darkness is, uh, you know, just for funsies,
but that we're like, we're being very intentional. It's, it's
a missional living approach. And, and so, I'm just thinking about,
you know, your life in Europe for 20 years and
I'm thinking about my uh ventures into Europe, paving the
way for you.
(45:29):
Uh, when I first went to Eastern Europe, we did
all of our ministry in what what they call discos,
which British people would call pubs and Americans would call bars.
So that's where, that's where we found our audience and
you know, that's the door the Lord opened and so
we went into these places and we uh we took
(45:53):
music into these places because that was, that was a
place to connect and
Um, you know, a friend of mine who, who was
with us, who was a great musician, guitar player, um,
he was doing Jimi Hendrix songs and then we were
throwing in a worship song or two here and there, so,
and Phil, you know better than anybody that bore some
(46:15):
fruit and we still have, uh, people today that we
know and love who came to GE.
through those efforts of us I mean one of our
one of our pastors got saved because we were out
there playing U2 songs at a bar and uh he,
you know, loved U2 music and we strike up conversation
and he sobers up the next day and gets saved
(46:35):
and grows in the Lord and starts a church, so.
You know, and, and I mean, I wasn't even just
for context too, I wasn't even old enough to go
to a bar in America when I was out there, uh,
and it was a different, but, but we were there
with such specific focus, right? It was like, dude, this
is the door that's open and we gotta walk through
this and, and I was, I would, I would say
(46:56):
one last thing too with Steve, um, I, I think
Steve too, I think that there is um.
The individual, and I think you even alluded to it,
you know, each of us are gonna have our individual
convictions about things like this. And I, you know, if
somebody feels strong, like, you know, I, I can't, I, I'm,
I don't think I should go into a thing like that.
I'm never gonna tell them like, oh no, you, you
(47:17):
need to, you need to go with your conviction. And if,
if you have the conviction, like I can't go to that, uh,
even if like it was an evangelistic opportunity, I just
can't be in that space.
Hey, that is perfectly understandable, and that is entirely uh
acceptable between you and the Lord, so.
(47:39):
Did you guys dress like John Travolta when you went
to these discos? That's what everybody's wondering right now. They
can just picture Phil and Brian you know and the whites. Phil,
why did they call him alive? No, it was like,
I think it was from the word like discotheque. They
would just use discotheque. It was like the French. I,
I have no idea, but thankfully they don't call them
that anymore. They go more by the name like bar,
(48:02):
which even that is a little.
a little bit like it's not a fair term because
like you would never in America say I'm gonna go
to the bar and you know, whatever, but it's like,
it's like the hangout, like the pub, like you said,
a restaurant, a restaurant I mean maybe like a club, right?
It was, it was. I mean, that's really what what
they were doing, yeah, but they called it disco and
you know, we were, I mean that was part of
the part of the drawback for me was like, you know, I,
(48:25):
I can't go into a disco.
I didn't have like the right outfit, you know, I
didn't have the polyester pants or the height.
I was born in the 70s. I was not wearing
any John Travolta outfits. OK. It's funny because here at
the Kwave Studios, uh, we have this. Anybody who's ever
(48:46):
been here knows about the disco ball that we have
out in the hallway. So now we know why that's there.
It's to pay homage to.
He's going on circa 90s, and, you know, every now
and again, Brian comes in with his bell bottoms on
and his platform shoes and you know it stands under
the ball. That's right. That's right. And see, we only
(49:06):
see from the waist up, like we just see his,
you know, shoulders and all. Nobody's seeing what a party animal, yeah.
This is true. This divulging. This is digressing. Yes, yes,
that happens often on this program. Steve, thank you so
much for your phone call here on Pastor's Perspective. One
more question on the same topic, Scott, what did you
(49:27):
want to add?
Hi gentlemen, I just wanted to say that I like
that topic and it was a good one. It was
good enough for me to feel I wanted to call
and just basically say let's hypothetically say it was me
and I'm gonna go support my son that was at
his premiere of a horror movie. I would definitely want
(49:49):
to support him and perhaps maybe could I get away
with wearing my Jesus loves you t-shirt?
I think you can, uh, I think, man, that would
be great if that's, if that's what you wanted to wear.
And you know, I don't think there's anything wrong, right,
with when someone comes up and asks you and says,
(50:10):
I like your shirt, and then all of a sudden
you're gonna have an open door for spreading the gospel. Absolutely. Yeah.
I think you should just make your own shirt that
says life without Jesus is scary, and then use that
as your kind of, you know, opening. There you go. I,
I think it's cool. I, I love what you're describing and,
and whether it's a t-shirt or whatnot, we just have
(50:31):
to go in with a mindset that says, I'm, I'm
ready for God to use me. I mean, he came
to bring light in dark places and
And uh yeah, whether it's a t-shirt or whatever, yeah,
I think we just got to look for those opportunities.
That's right, shine your light. Scott, thanks for calling in.
Here is Alicia in Huntington Beach. Welcome to Pastor's Perspective, Alicia.
(50:54):
Hi, I hope you guys can hear me. Loud and clear.
Yay, um, so my question is, you know how in
the Bible it says we should not store our treasures
on earth for moths or rust or thieves can steal
and break in and destroy them, and then we should
store them in heaven instead. What are those treasures that
(51:16):
we store in heaven? Well, I think that the treasures,
I mean, obviously it's not, you know, literal treasure, but it's,
it's
I think that the point that Jesus is making is
that we are, we are laboring not for
You know, the, the earthly things that will ultimately perish,
but we're laboring for the things of the kingdom that will, um,
(51:42):
That
That we will receive a blessing from in eternity beyond
beyond this life. So it's the, you know, it's basically
just having the priority in the things of the kingdom,
having the priority in the things of heaven versus uh
the priority of materialism and the things here on earth.
(52:05):
Yeah, it's like we, you know, like here, like if
you go dig up a uh an ancient ship and
find like Spanish gold coins, like that's like you could
use that, that has value here in, you know, in
the world. But the treasures of heaven, they they, it's,
it's like you said, Brian, I, I was thinking of
the word value, like the things that are valued in heaven,
you know, faithfulness, obedience, surrender, humility, patience, grace.
(52:26):
peace, you know, sharing our faith, you know, those kinds
of things are, you know, money is not a value
point in heaven. The streets are paved with gold, the
Bible says. It just means gold doesn't mean anything. Um,
but what does matter, man, faithful living, godly living, character, obedience,
these are the things that, um, will go from this
life and that extend into the life to come.
(52:48):
Alicia, thank you for your phone call today on Pastor's Perspective.
Let's squeeze in one more. Steve and San Marcos, go ahead.
What's your question for us today?
Speaker 2 (52:57):
Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call. Um, was a
big fan of Chuck Smith, went to church there for
a long time. Uh, question is, so, you know, I've
been struggling with, uh, you know, my life over the
last 5 years. I'm 60 years old. I lived a
blessed life until about 5 years ago. A lot of
rain in my life, a lot of job, just not
(53:18):
panning out at this portion of my life.
Long story short, I have this this company that gave
me like 2025 hours, you know, basically $18.20 dollars an hour, whatever,
working like a fence line at Costco, you know, people
just kind of look at you and you hold out
a pamphlet. I feel bad because uh they kind of
(53:40):
gave this gig to me, but I've been putting out resumes,
you know, I live in San Diego, it's very expensive.
And I've been on interviews in a company finally.
God has blessed me with a company that's gonna give
me $30 an hour plus commission. Um, they're paid medical,
which I'm a diabetic, insulin dependent insurances, and I haven't
(54:03):
had insurance over 2 years, so it's been tough. My question,
long story short is, I mean, I never liked letting
people down. I don't like hurting people. I don't like
being ungodly and
You know, I just need to take this job and they're,
they're kind of like really on me a little bit
about it, and I just told them, I said, I,
(54:24):
I have to survive. I have to
survive.
Speaker 1 (54:27):
So you're saying that you don't want to be ungodly.
What part of this is being ungodly?
Speaker 2 (54:32):
By letting them down, by going to another
job.
Speaker 1 (54:36):
Got it. OK, Brian, what would you say to Steve?
Well, Steve, I, I mean, you know, obviously you're well
liked at the place that you're at and you're doing
a good job and they're like, oh we love to
see Steve stick around, but, um, they're not gonna pay you, uh,
double what they're paying you and this company sounds like
(54:58):
they're going to the new one and you know, you,
you just have to take care of yourself. I would,
I would just see this as a blessing that God has.
Brought you and accepted and.
You know, God bless the, the, the people you've been
with and, you know, thank God for that season, but it's,
(55:18):
it's time to move on. The Lord's providing in a
fresh new way and uh just receive the blessing. Yep, Phil,
20 seconds.
It's a job and it's good that they want you.
That means you are a good worker, but it's OK
to move on from one job and go to another job.
It's fine. Do it. Steve, thanks for your phone call
today on Pastor's Perspective. We have run out of time,
but we will be back tomorrow. So if you couldn't
(55:40):
call in today, please call in tomorrow. We open up
the phone lines about 7 minutes before 3 o'clock for
Pastor Brian Broderson of Echoes of Mercy.com and Phil Metzger
from Calvary San Diego. I'm Brian Perez, and we will
talk to you next time here on Pastor's Perspective.
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm Brian Perez filling
in for Michael David, or at least it feels that
way because Mike's been here more than I have this week,
but it is so great to be back with you today,
at least for one day here on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173
is the number to call. We're going to be here
until 4 o'clock to answer the questions.
You have about the Bible, the Christian faith, just about
(00:40):
anything that's on your mind, give us a call at 888-564-6173.
And here to answer your questions once again, we've got
Brian Broderson from Echoes of Mercy.com and Phil Metzger, the
pastor of Calvary San Diego. Hey guys, what's going on?
Hi there. Hey there, and what's going on with you,
(01:02):
Brian Perez, because you've been, uh, absent. I've been on assignment,
on assignment, fulfilling your civic duty, yes, yes, and it's
still not done. So, uh I likely will not be
here tomorrow. The dreaded.
Jury duty, yes, but so far it's fun. I, I.
(01:23):
Brian knows this because we've had this conversation. I have
been um uh actually a jury foreman on one occasion
and several times to going through the process. And we
were just saying, you know, everybody who gets a notice
in the mail that they have to serve jury duty,
I think they just want to gouge their eyes out
(01:45):
after they've rolled their eyes that very instant.
Um, but I can say from experience, it's, it is
an interesting, um, experience, and so it's not as bad
as as one might think.
Um, but I'm just hopefully beyond that stage of life
(02:06):
where they contact me because I did it already. You
can be, no, no, if you can be president, you
can still do jury duty at your, is that how
it works? Oh yeah, president, I would be a young president, uh,
you know, based on what we've seen here in recent
years young according to the way we run elections, yeah.
(02:27):
I, uh, I got, I, you know, I've never had
a jury duty because I was overseas, right, yeah, and
then I finally got one, last year and I was
like I wasn't eye gouging. I was like, oh, how fun!
I feel American, like I feel like I belong, you know,
like I had been.
In a club and I, I had to go down.
I couldn't call in. I had to go down and
(02:48):
I get down there and no one got picked. They
just ended up not having any that day. I was
so disappointed. Was that it? And then you were done.
And I, and now I'm here complaining about it. Never
happened again. No, that's it. Well, you know, I'll let
them know that you're just hoping to get another notification. Fingers.
Anybody from the San Diego court is listening right now.
(03:10):
Make sure to send Mr. Phil Metzger.
Uh, summits, a personal invitation. That's right, invitation. You're welcome
any day you want, buddy. That's awesome.
All right, so call in with your questions at 888-564-6173.
You can also send in your questions online. We've got
several ways for you to do that.
There's the Pastor's Perspective Facebook Messenger. You can type in
(03:33):
your questions, send it in that way, or you can
DM us on the Pastor's perspective Instagram. You can go
to our website, kwave.com, look for the pastor's perspective page,
and fill out the form there. Or if you're watching
us right now on Facebook, YouTube, or Instagram, just scan
that QR code and that
It'll take you right to the pastor's perspective page on Kwave.com,
(03:55):
which is how Carlton got his question to us, and
Carlton asks, what's with this restoration process that many ministers
go through now when they fall off the wagon, so
to speak. I became familiar with it a few years ago,
and it seems with so many pastors and ministers
Falling down from grace in recent years, it is becoming
(04:15):
more widely expressed. Is, is this a process established in
the Bible? Can you refer me to particular scripture references? Now,
most recently this came up because of, uh, Pastor Tony Evans,
we heard something about that, but, uh, Phil, what do
you know about the restoration process?
Well, as a, as like a term or like some
(04:37):
kind of like, you know, like official thing doesn't exist.
I think every, every church, every kind of uh ministry
group has their own, either has their own process or
just makes one up as they go. It's, uh, you know,
because every situation is unique, every circumstance is different. So
I don't know of any like particular, but I, I,
(04:58):
I do agree with the uh Carlton writing in like, yeah,
we're hearing about this a lot more.
I'm personally looking like as a pastor of a church
and as somebody who's like, you know, overseeing multiple, you know,
church locations and pastors, I'm always looking at several factors
when I, um, think of restoration. So I personally don't
(05:18):
have any like one particular like one size fits all practice, um,
but I, I'm I'm looking at several things for restoration. One,
you know, what is the sin that we're talking about, right? It, it's, it's,
that's a highly like
This whole thing with like Tony Evans that I'm very,
very unfamiliar with, but I think everybody is because it's
(05:38):
kind of unknown, right? And so it's purely speculation. So
for the things that I've ever had to deal with,
I'm looking at what kind of sin are we talking about.
Is this sexual sin? Is this a gambling addiction? Is this, um,
you know, there's just so many like.
The the spectrum of what that could be is so varied.
So depending on that is gonna drastically change the way
(06:00):
that like restoration or if there could even be restoration
would look like. But I, I've never, I've never practiced
the one size fits all. Every case is unique. Um,
I don't know, Brian, do you have any thoughts to that?
Well, I, yeah, I mean, I'm, I, everything you said,
I second that, um.
(06:22):
And like you said to Phil, the particular sin is
um something that has to be taken into consideration.
Um, and you know, some people have sinned egregiously in
the context of being in ministry and, um, others, you know,
(06:43):
have sinned, but not in a disqualifying way, except nowadays.
Uh, it seems like people want to disqualify you over
anything and everything. So I, I think especially today, you
have to have a lot of wisdom when you're navigating
these things and, and, you know, dealing with the, these
(07:05):
kinds of issues, um.
Yeah, so
Mm.
OK, uh, very good. Thank you, Carlton for sending in
your question on the pastor's perspective page on Kwave.com. 888-564-6173
is our number. Let's do one more that was sent
in online and then we'll go to the phones 888-564-6173
(07:28):
our number once again. Danny in Murrieta.
About 1 Kings chapter 8 verses 23 through 53. Let
me read those 31 verses really quick before we know. I'm,
I'm joking, you guys can read that on your own time. But, uh,
if you guys want to look that up real quick,
Brian and Phil, uh, 1 Kings chapter 8 verses 23
through 53, Danny asks, could this possibly be considered the
(07:53):
sinner's prayer for the day? They didn't have Jesus there
at the time, and it shows us how we can
go about knowing the Lord.
And there's no exact sinner's prayer in the Bible, or
is there right here in
Uh, 1 Kings chapter 8. Your perspective, please, as always,
I love listening and learning from this program. Right. Well,
(08:13):
I'm just gonna take a guess because I don't have
um those verses in front of me.
And um.
My trusty friend did not set a Bible in.
Mhm.
That wasn't me. I didn't have Bible duty today.
(08:33):
Johnny, but
Yes, so I, I'm looking at the, it's it Solomon's
prayer is that what it is? Yeah, the prayer of dedication.
Solomon blesses the people. Yeah, I mean, uh, the sinner's prayer, no,
I mean a prayer prayed by Solomon.
In the context of the temple.
And what the temple would, would mean for Israelites and
(09:00):
how they would, um, you know, Solomon is saying, basically, Lord,
we're dedicating this temple to you. We know that, um,
The heaven of heavens can't contain you, but we're just
trusting that your, your presence will be here. And so,
and then he just goes through a list of, of
things that might happen with the people over the ages.
(09:23):
And if this happens and we turn to you and
we look to this place, Lord, hear our prayer, and he,
you know, says that over and over again. And so,
I mean, it, you know, it's a great prayer.
In the context at the time, I think it certainly
can inspire us and have relevance to us today, but I,
(09:45):
I wouldn't say it's a, it's a sinner's prayer. I mean,
in one sense, I guess it is sinners who are
praying and thanking God that, you know, he has mercy
on them and remembering them because of what is going
on in this house. It's a house of a sacrifice
really as well, you know, the, this is where the
(10:06):
atonement is being made, so.
Um, yeah, but, but a sinner's prayer like, hey, um,
all right, you want, you want to know Jesus here.
Let me lead you in this prayer. Open, let's, let's
get a Bible. Let's open ver Kings 8. And those,
how many verses was it, Brian? 31, 31 verses. Yeah, I,
I think that would be a little overkill.
(10:27):
And it's funny when, yeah, I was just gonna say
it's funny when you said that like cause I I'll
say the same thing to people they're like, well, like.
You know, what I, I've never prayed the sinner's prayer,
and I'm like, have you ever prayed? Because if you did,
you prayed a sinner's prayer right there, Bubba. Uh, every
prayer I've ever prayed was a sinner's prayer. Of course,
we're talking about that like you just said, Brian, that
kind of like, you know, I'm inviting Jesus into my life.
(10:48):
And I often think like, if we're gonna like take
an Old Testament passage, by the way, as you already said,
there is no sinners prayer in the Old Testament like that.
It didn't, I mean, there was no Messiah yet that
had come and died for our sins, but
I think of Daniel's prayer and Daniel 9 to me
as the like greatest like kind of sinner's prayer because
there he is praying, you know, here he is in
(11:09):
captivity for sins he did not commit that the nation committed,
and he's crying out, Lord, forgive us and heal us.
To me that's a great sinner's prayer.
Very good. Thank you, Danny, for sending in your question
on the pastor's perspective on the subject of the sinner's prayer,
you know, there, there, of course, you hear some people say, oh,
(11:30):
it's not even in the Bible, and but you shouldn't
pray the sinner's prayer because it isn't in the Bible. And,
and then other people are very much the opposite, like,
what do you mean you didn't say the sinner's prayer? I, I,
are you saved? How could you be saved without saying
the sinner's prayer? So it's uh.
Uh, you know, I think it's, it's a
(11:52):
It's a beautiful opportunity to put into simple words, um,
the request for God to forgive your sins and Jesus
to come into your life. Um, do you have to
say it? No. Um, I love the way Paul just
brings it down to the simplest, um.
(12:13):
You know, it's, it's basically an action from the heart,
but he brings it down to whoever calls on the
name of the Lord shall be saved. And I remember
one time, um, visiting a a a person who was dying,
and I, and I was thinking through like, OK, I,
I wanna share the Lord with them and I, you know,
what do, what do I, what am I trying to
(12:35):
accomplish here? And it was basically, you know, I, I
want to get him to receive Jesus and
Gosh, they're kind of going in and out of consciousness
and how, how am I gonna, how are we gonna
walk through the prayer? This was, you know, 40 years ago. Um,
but all of a sudden I thought, wait, whoever calls
on the name of the Lord shall be saved. I thought, OK,
(12:55):
that really simplifies it right there. That's all we're talking about,
you know, somebody just saying, Jesus, save me. Jesus have
mercy on me. Jesus, forgive me, whatever, whatever, you know.
That's it. Yep. Mm. But aren't you, Brian, I'm, I'm
curious how you feel about this. I remember like when
I first started in ministry, and then you get a
little legalistic, like, well, we don't need a sinner's prayer
(13:16):
just like you said. Well, that, that doesn't matter. I'll
tell you what, as a pastor, I'm so thankful that
there's been people that have worked out this kind of
idea of a sinner's prayer, and I'll tell you, cause
when you're like talking to somebody in the moment.
And I've had that like in my head now. I
don't draw a total blank, you know, like, and I
know it sounds weird, like, no, God will lead you.
I know, but and then sometimes I get in the way,
(13:38):
I guess. I don't know, but I'm thankful that like
I've heard, I've heard Greg Laurie share the sinner's prayer
a gazillion times, and I'm, I'm seriously.
for that. But like you said, I just got a
call in the name of the Lord, but sometimes I'm
thankful that I have that like kind of I've had
that repetition in my heart enough times. And, and I
think for people too, it is, I, I often tell people, look,
(13:59):
you know, this is a, this is a point of
reference for you. You, you'll be able to remember back
to this moment in time where you said these words.
And so, you know, I, I think true, it's a
good thing.
We don't want to be legalistic about it, but I, I,
we don't want to be critical of it either. Yeah,
that's good. All right, Danny, thanks for sending in your question.
(14:21):
Now we're gonna go to the phones. 888-564-6173 is our number.
Pastor's Perspective is the name of the program where you
call in and get a pastor's perspective on your questions. 888-564-6173.
Terry in Huntington Beach listening on the Kwave app. Hello,
thanks for calling in today. How can we help you?
(14:42):
Hello, everyone. I have a question about Mark, um, 11,
to be specific. It's when Jesus is talking to the
scribes and the Pharisees about all their rituals and all
that kind of business. And then in um 11, I
don't understand what he's saying there.
When he uses the word, let's see, and this, this
book says Corbin, but you say if a man says
(15:04):
to his father or mother, whatever profit you might have
received from me is Corbin, that is a gift from God. Mhm.
I don't understand like the whole scenario there.
Yeah, but Jesus is.
You know, the Pharisees, of course, are, are opposing Jesus
(15:25):
and he's pointing out to them that they have, um,
Circumvented the word of God through their traditions and so
he gives the example. God says honor your father and
your mother that's God's word but then you say, uh,
(15:47):
if a man says, so Corbin means a gift. So
if you say, oh what I was.
I, I was gonna honor my father and mother with this,
but instead I'm gonna give it to God and then
that exempts me from having to take care of my
father and my mother. So Jesus says through doing that,
you're nullifying the word of God. You're taking, you're taking
(16:08):
a human commandment and you're putting it above what God
said to do.
OK, thank you so much. That clarifies it to Max.
You're welcome. Phil, what would be like a modern day
example of somebody doing that?
What would you say? Um, oh, that's a good question, um,
because I, I wanna be careful on the examples they use, uh,
(16:29):
a good question, like, yeah, so I'm, I, I've got
my gift that I wanna, uh, I think it's anytime
that I'm gonna like use religiosity as an excuse to avoid.
Certain human contact that I should be, like, like, like, oh, I, I,
I'm sorry, I couldn't play with, I, I couldn't, you know,
put the kids to bed because I was too busy
having to read my Bible. And my wife's exhausted and
desperately in need of my help and support, and I'm
(16:51):
doing spiritual things while, while she's doing the unspiritual things. I, I,
I mean, there's an example.
Or like what I'm, what did you say? Uh oh,
he's about to confess something.
Or like when I'm, uh, you know, sitting at home
reading my Bible and Cheryl is, you know, working all
(17:13):
over the house and, you know, can you do this, honey, honey,
don't bother me. I'm reading my Bible right now, you know. No,
I can't take out the trash. You can do that
right now. That's, you know, now I got to be spiritual.
Yeah, I kind of hit a chord. Sorry, I shouldn't
I have done that once or twice in my life,
you know.
You learn from experience. Terry, thanks for calling in today.
(17:36):
Thank you. All right. God bless. 888-564-6173 is the number
to call us today until 4 o'clock. Let's go to
Dave in Santa Ana, listening on FM 107.9 K wave. Hey, Dave,
what's your question for us today?
Hey guys, yeah, so, um, I have a son who's, uh, uh,
(17:56):
up and coming actor in Hollywood, and he's in a, um,
horror slash, you know, you know how the modern day
horror movies are, where they're there's some horror in there,
but then it's kind of funny too. And there's no
sexual content and, um, they're having a premiere tomorrow night.
(18:17):
He invited me.
I feel a little convicted to go, um, and I
was just wanted your take on it. I know there's
language in it and, but there's no sexual content, and
then there's the gore. Yeah. And, um, so I, you know,
I want to support him and, um, you know, my
wife and I really want to support him. He's a
(18:39):
He's a gay young man and
Um, you know, so we really love on him and, and, uh,
he's always welcome in our house and, you know, he just, he,
he invited me to it and I, I just, I
feel kind of like torn whether conviction, whether I should
go or, you know, let him know that, you know,
(19:01):
I'm convicted. Yeah. Well, uh, Phil, I'd love to hear
what you have to say. I'll just, I'll just start
with this, you know, Jesus, um,
You think of Matthew, you know, so Matthew's a tax collector,
we read about him in scripture and Jesus call, and
you know, as a tax collector, we find places in
(19:21):
the New Testament where, uh, sinners and tax collectors are synonymous,
you know, those, those are the people that the, the
self-righteous religious people.
Like, you know, what is he doing hanging out with
sinners or tax collectors. So, tax collectors were looked down upon, to,
to say the least, by the religious elite. So Jesus
(19:42):
passes by Levi, uh Matthew.
And he says to him, follow me. And so Matthew
gets up and begins to follow him. And then it
tells us in the Gospel of Matthew that Matthew held
a feast, uh, in his home, and Jesus was invited,
and Matthew also invited many tax collectors and sinners, and
(20:07):
Jesus went. And so I think that
You know, sometimes I think as Christians, we can, we
can almost become
Ah, you know, kind of prudish or, you know, in,
in some way, we just, oh no, I can't go
there because I, I might get defiled, and yet, no, we,
(20:29):
we should be strong enough and mature enough to be able,
and not everybody can do this, but you know, at
a certain stage in life, you should be strong enough
and mature enough to walk into a context like that
and just so this is what it is, and it's not, OK, OK,
they use they use bad language, they use bad language everywhere.
I mean, like, you know.
I was reading this article the other day about all
the politicians now who, who find that cussing is like a,
(20:51):
you know, it's, it's part of what they're doing and
the funny art, the article was funny because it was saying,
you know, all of these guys sound like idiots, he said,
but you know, Donnie from Queens, you know, he can
pull it off because he's from Queens. Of course he's
talking about the president. Yes. So anyway, I know that's
a little bit of a distraction there, but, uh, from the,
from the main point.
Uh, what do you think, Phil? I it's, it's interesting
(21:15):
because like, I think it's pretty rare when when somebody
will come on and say like, you know, I have
these convictions and all, it's, it's like, I can't, I
can't think of a time when we ever said, oh,
go against your convictions, but I, I gotta tell you,
I felt the exact same way. Seriously, Dave, I think like,
I mean, dude, we're, we're all adults, you're not, you're
not a 14 year old, that would be a different conversation,
(21:35):
you know, seriously, like, and not to be silly about it,
but like, you know, if you were, then it would
be like, yeah, you probably shouldn't go to that, but
This is your kid, this is a major big deal,
and it sounds to me like and I don't want
to put words in your mouth, dude, but like your
conviction is might be a little bit more cultural than
it is actually like Christian.
In the sense that like, and I'm famous, uh, I,
(21:56):
I've been very explicit on the show. I don't like
horror movies, but if my kid made a horror movie
that was kind of funny and had some cussing, I'm
going to it, um, more because I'm gonna support them
than because I feel like I'm like, your son probably
already knows you don't like, you know, kind of some
of what's going on in that. I think if it
was like sex.
(22:17):
explicit, this would be a different conversation, but because it's not,
and you made, you said it's very much not, and
it's kind of meant to be like a little slapsticky,
it sounds like a horror comedy is kind of slapsticky.
I don't know, man. I, I think if you can
push past that, I would, I would just go there
and cheer your son on. OK, a quick, quick story.
So I have a friend who is a um producer
(22:39):
director guy.
And, um, actually he's been living in, he, he's from
the UK and he's been living in uh New York
for the past few months because he's directing, uh, a
new horror film that's coming out and he's done several
films and, um, his mother, who's just a beautiful Christian lady,
(23:00):
she's like, now, son, like why?
Like the, but the language, you know, she's just like cringing.
And why can't you do something about that? And he's like, Mom,
I don't write the script, OK? I'm, I'm not the
one putting the words in people's mouths. I'm there to
produce and direct, and that's just, this is, this is
(23:21):
the job I got and this is what I gotta do,
you know, so we were talking about it, it was
just kind of funny, you know, that uh she was
expressing sort of her angst over like, oh gosh, no,
we did this film and
And you know, he's, he's a Christian actually, but he,
you know, this is the world that he that he navigates. So,
one of our, one of our mutual friends, Brian Hung
is a very well-known director and I have spent so
(23:43):
many times at premieres, uh, of his shows and just
thinking like, I can't believe I'm here. Like this is crazy,
you know, but just supporting him and the conversations that
happened afterwards and I don't know, I don't know, Dave,
if we're helping you or making you feel like worse
about the whole thing, but.
I, I just think like it's such a cool, I
mean this is very unique, right? And it's a cool
(24:03):
opportunity to support your kid. We don't get a lot
of those and we gotta grab those when we do
get them. I appreciate that.
I appreciate your advice and I think that's, that's, uh, well,
well received. And, um, yeah, it's tomorrow night so I'm
gonna go. Cool. Well, have fun and, um, I'm sure
your son's gonna be blessed that you came. Yeah, heck yeah.
(24:24):
All right, Dave, thanks for calling in today on Pastor's Perspective.
888-564-6173 is our number. Got about half an hour left
to go, 35 minutes, so I was I was telling
a story the other day, um, to a group of
Ministry people and I, I was, I was talking about how,
you know, there was a season in my life where
(24:44):
I got
Um,
You know, and I used the word prudish earlier, but I, I, I,
I just got kind of weirded out where, like, you know,
somebody was cussing around me or something, I was cringing,
you know, I was like, oh no, you know, they
said that that word and and I'll never forget. So I,
you know, I didn't grow up in a Christian home,
(25:06):
and I came from a pretty, pretty rough background, and
I came from a world where that was just the
way everybody talked around me, except my mother. My mother
never talked like that. Um.
But um I remember one time, uh, this is, this
is when we had moved to London and we were
planting a church and and one of the people who
ended up coming to Jesus in such a beautiful way,
(25:28):
he was like a a character out of a Dickens novel.
I mean, just like, you know, it's like, OK, this
I'm talking to a guy who, uh, Dickens wrote about.
But anyway, we, we were talking one day and he
was just, you know, using all kinds.
a very colorful language. And I was listening to him,
you know, looking him in the eye, and every time
(25:49):
he would say a word, I would just sort of
shudder and say like, oh my gosh, I can't believe
he's saying those words. And honestly, man, it was like
a moment where the Holy Spirit just slapped me upside
the head and just basically said, what is the matter
with you? And I'm like, oh, well, Lord, he's saying
bad words. And, you know, it was like, Lord.
Said, yeah. Have you ever heard bad words before? Um,
(26:10):
I think you actually used a lot of bad words
at one time in your life and you grew up
around bad words and it was just like the message was,
would you just get over to this and listen to
this guy. I'm working in his life. Well, that guy
came to Jesus in such a powerful way and to
this day, you know, he just has a beautiful walk
with the Lord, but it was I because sometimes as Christians,
we just get, we freak out over the wrong stuff.
(26:33):
It's all the time. It's OK, you know, I mean,
even sometimes people will tell me like, hey, you know, this,
this is a great film. It's really cool. You know,
there's some language in it and I'm like, I can
handle language. I am 68 years old. I can, I
can handle it.
All right. On a related note, we have a Facebook
question here, and Robert, we're gonna get you after the break,
(26:55):
only because we're coming up to the break and, uh,
I wanna make sure we give you more time, but
this question here I think we can answer in our
allotted time. It is from Chantelle, who writes, who asks,
is there any biblical references to point towards the reality
or the fact that Jesus has a sense of humor?
(27:16):
What would you guys say?
Um,
I
I do think there were probably some things that we,
we might not totally catch it, but I think in
the cultural context, um, if you were with Jesus, I
think you probably would have picked up on some stuff. But,
but I think the most
(27:38):
Obvious example of that being possible is when Jesus talks
about um the guy with the the beam in his eye, uh,
the plank in his eye, trying to get the splinter
out of the, the friend's eye, you know, I mean,
if you just picture that, it's a, it's a funny picture.
And I think when people heard Jesus say it, they
(28:00):
probably thought they probably cracked up. They thought, oh wow, yeah,
I mean that would be pretty ridiculous, wouldn't it? So
can you think of any other things I was, I
was thinking that's a great one because I didn't think
of it right away, but it's so true. I'm thinking
of the Sons of thunder calling these two dudes the
sons of thunder is like, I don't know. I mean,
maybe it wasn't meant to be funny, but it was
sure way of making a point.
Without insulting them, but kind of making it like lighthearted
(28:24):
a little bit, you know. Uh, I think Jesus definitely
had a, listen, kids love to be around him, and
kids don't like to be around sourpuss, kind of, you know, deadpan.
Kids like to be around people that make them feel safe,
and Jesus was that. Yeah, and, and you think of,
of humor as
It's, it's part of what God has instilled in us, um,
(28:49):
you know, through creating us. And so,
And I think if you, if you look at creation,
you think of the animal world, and I mean, there's
a lot of humor in, in that realm. So does
God have a sense of humor? I would say if
since we do, he must. So that's right, 100%.
(29:10):
All right, Chantal, thank you for sending in your question
on the pastor's perspective, uh, the pastor's perspective Facebook page.
That's what I wanted to say. All right, gonna take
a quick break and we'll be back with your questions.
What do you want to ask Pastors Brian Broderson and
Phil Metzger. Now is your chance. 8.
885646-173. If you're watching on Facebook, YouTube or Instagram, thank
(29:33):
you so much for watching. Please call. The number's right
there on the bottom of your screen, 888-564-6173. Operator is
standing by at 888-564-6173.
(30:17):
Hey, welcome back to Pastor's Perspective. I'm Brian Perez. Great
to be with you today. 888-564-6173 is our number. We've
got Brian Broderson from Echoes of Mercy.com here in the studio.
He is back with us this week. He's also teaching
this Sunday evening at Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa starts at 6:30.
(30:38):
You can get more details at no, back to Basradio.com/live.
And Phil Metzger's here too. He's the pastor at Calvary
San Diego, and he's joining us on Zoom.
Ready to go, guys. Ready for more? We're ready to go.
We had so much fun that first half. Let's jump in.
(30:58):
Let's have even more fun. Yeah. We'll begin with Robert
and Hemets. Welcome to Pastor's perspective, Robert.
Hey, how you doing? Great.
All right, hey, Pastor Brian, boy, I'm a big fan
of you, man. I, I just read your book, uh,
The Powers of Darkness and the Kingdom of God. Oh
(31:18):
my gosh, that is an excellent book. I'm gonna, I'm
gonna read it again and then give it to my son.
It was so good. Well, every Christian walk, you know,
read that. Thank you so much and I'm glad it
encouraged you.
Yeah, anyway, my question is on Luke 962, uh, it
says no one who puts his hand to the plow
(31:40):
and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God, uh,
in the context of, you know, being at a Bible
study and you know, if you try to, you know,
say that you, you know, amended your ways.
Is it inappropriate to talk about things of the past,
you know, you, you, you know, ill lifestyle, you know,
(32:03):
when you're younger.
Can you give an example maybe? What do you?
Well, actually there's somebody in the Bible study that uh
went to prison and uh every time you know he,
he starts talking about, you know, a verse he starts
referring back to, you know, when he's in prison, uh,
(32:25):
he's a born again Christian about 6 months. Uh, should
I just let him go or, you know, should I
correct him? What do you feel, is he?
Is he looking back on that with some
Kind of like glory in his past. No, I was,
(32:46):
I was on a 12 step program and a lot
of the people would go back to their past and
it's like they're getting an adrenaline rush about the past. Right, that's,
that's what I'm referring to. And is he doing that?
I think so.
Yeah, I think, I think it could be um.
(33:06):
you know, graciously to just say.
you know, maybe, maybe, maybe think about this. I mean, obviously, well,
not everybody has um a past that plays in uh
powerfully to their testimony. Uh, some people do, and I
don't think there's anything the matter with, with sharing your past,
(33:29):
but I, but I think there's, you know, for the
mature believer, there is the sense of
I think there's almost more of a reluctance because there's a, a,
a bit of shame over the past. Um, I think
the people who were too anxious to talk about what
big centers they were, I think that that's a, a
sign of, uh, immaturity to, you know, to put it
(33:53):
nicely and
But like you said, he's only been a Christian for
6 months. So I would, I would maybe point out
to him, you know, it, it sounds like you're, you're maybe, um,
putting a little too much, um,
Importance on.
(34:13):
How big of a sinner you were and maybe maybe
you need to back off on that a little bit.
What do you think, Phil? I mean, we, I mean
we've we've seen this, we've heard it, I mean, oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
and experience, yeah. I, I, I would even like even
how you can express that would be more like, you know,
kind of the idea like what Brian just said, but
like you're probably not meaning to do this, but this
might be how it's coming across like, you know, the,
(34:35):
the idea that like he's been a Christian 6 months,
he probably has no clue, like, I mean that's he's
a brand new believer and
He might just be like amazed at how far he's
come from and what he came out of and all, and,
and that that is kind of glorying in something, but
it may not be from an ill intention. So I,
I think like you said, Brian, you, you can kind
of bring it up. It's a great teaching moment to
bring it up, but maybe assuming that like he may
(34:58):
not know that is all is all I'm thinking there.
He may not know that.
Yeah, you, you might be kind of or or even
in a question, hey, are you missing those days? Because
sometimes it feels like that. And I wonder if that's
what you're intending to say. I'll bet you that dude
will be like, oh my gosh, no, that's not what
I meant at all. So those might be ways to
kinda have that conversation. Could it be too that Robert's
(35:22):
friend is maybe hearing other pastors and ministry leaders share
their testimony and it's always that.
You know, I once was this and now I'm this
and so he's just trying to do that because he
sees the impact that those ministers are having on
You know, people, so he's, he's just, you know, he's
got the zeal, he's doing it too, but I guess
there's that fine line of drawing so much attention or,
(35:42):
or the, the fear that somebody is, oh, when I was, uh,
he then I did this and I did that. But
now look at me. I'm wearing three piece suits to church. I'm,
you know, just making it seem like plug in my
ears when people are using bad words. Yes, yes, yes.
You know, I mean, I think that's totally possible. You
(36:02):
know what I found, and I, I've had to learn this, like, I,
I only have my experiences, right? And so sometimes I'll
pull from those, but it can be like kind of
too much. Like, you know, so like, you know, Brian,
you and I both spent a lot, a good chunk
of time in Europe, and sometimes I'll use those things
as like, and it's just because it's my experience. But
I realized because others didn't have that, they can feel
(36:24):
like kind of like out of that. And so it,
it doesn't connect. I think sometimes we can do that
about our past lives too. Yeah.
Yeah, and I, I, I think, I think what Phil
said before is, is really good. Yeah, just, you know,
kind of give him the benefit of the doubt, recognize
that he's a, a young believer and, and just encourage
(36:45):
him rather than, uh, it didn't sound like you, you know,
you're wanting to come down real hard on him, but,
but just be sensitive to that. And, um, you know, it's,
it's part of growing. I, I, I just remember, um,
Lots of people, you know, I, I have heard and
then had conversations with quite a few people over the
(37:06):
years where you had to say, you know, we're really
excited about what God did in your life, and man, it,
it's a radical story, but let's kind of, we don't
need to go into all that much detail about it,
and let's keep the focus on what Jesus did versus
uh what I used to do.
Oh, that's so true. Robert, thank you for your phone
(37:27):
call today on Pastor's Perspective. We've got a follow-up question
here from Steve and Irvine. Hey, Steve, what did you
want to ask?
Good afternoon, gentlemen. Good to hear from you guys. Yeah,
I was just, uh, driving here and I, I just
had a follow up question, maybe a discussion around the
gentleman that called in about, uh, supporting his son in the,
in the horror film, and man, you know, my heart
(37:49):
goes out to those people and, you know, being in
ministry here a bit myself, I often am convicted in
in this space and uh I just couldn't help but
Recall in so many places where we're having such liberation
in the Christian walk, where it says to come out
from among them, or to be above reproach as a leader,
(38:10):
especially we should be held to a higher standard whether
you're a dad, or whether you're a pastor or a volunteer.
And um, you know, I think there's a place for
both sides of the conversation. I just really wanted some
clarity on um I believe the way the scriptures talked
to me is that um the only time like Jesus
(38:30):
should really be to be led by the spirit to
um have an agenda, you know, to, to, to give
the opportunity to stand out and show that, um.
To mix the light with the darkness, so to speak,
is really um a better choice of uh life and
to celebrate something that seemingly is celebrating the kingdom of
(38:53):
darkness in today's society can uh can be considered.
Blending, I feel like, uh, conforming to the ways of
the world, and I just wanted to know what you
guys thought about that. I think that, I think I
know part of the answer, but, um, I would love
for the conversation to hear what you guys have to
say about being led by the spirit because I think
it's an individualistic, um.
(39:13):
You know, decision, and I, and I think that really, um,
otherwise we can be legalistic or we can be pagan,
you know, I think we gone from paganism to legalism
continue to.
Yeah, that, that's a great question, um, Steve, and I
appreciate your, uh, the gospels read to me, but what
do you guys think about that? I think, I think it's,
it's a critical time, especially with this, with the environment
(39:35):
politically and, you know, and I think there's really on
where your phone is doing something funky, so what do
you say?
Well, yeah, and it is a good question, and it's
a good, it's a good conversation, so I agree. Um, I, I,
I think Steve, like, it kind of like I wanna
go back to the, the analogy or the, the, the, the,
the story that Brian used about, you know, Jesus eating
(39:57):
with Pharisees. I think I think we need to really
like hone in on this idea that like,
The concept of like being or Jesus having meals with sinners,
excuse me, and then the Pharisees kind of accusing him of,
you're always around sinners. I think we need to like
learn to normalize the idea that being around and being
with people is not the same as acceptance. We, we, we're,
(40:18):
we're mixing those two ideas there that like
by being somewhere where we're becoming the kingdom of darkness
rather than like by being present. First of all, this
is art. We have to remember that this is art. The,
if you look at, you read the Bible, did you
know how many dark places the people of God were
in regularly? I mean, terrible and dark, dark like kingdom darkness, terrible.
(40:41):
And we have to remember that the light is, you know,
the light of God is greater than the darkness of
the world. And so I'm thinking, uh, you know, kind
of specific to, I know we could branch off to,
you're kind of wanting to branch off away from that dad,
but I wanna go back to the dad because this
is more personal to this person. This is about him
and his son and that relationship. So we can have
a theoretical conversation about light and darkness. Should I go
(41:01):
to those movies? Dude, I'm not going to that horror movie. Um,
it's just not in my, it's not, I don't want to.
Um, but the, the idea that like being around darkness
equals acceptance of darkness. I think we need to be,
I think there's some caution that we need to hold there.
Yeah, I, I think too, and I, again, like you said,
(41:21):
Phil and um Steve, you remember, I, I started the conversation.
With the example of Jesus and the invitation that Jesus
received to go into the house of um.
Uh, Matthew. And, and then I think too, you know,
we have, and Phil kind of touched on it, we
have two analogies that Jesus gives in Matthew chapter 5,
(41:45):
he says, uh, you are the salt of the earth
and you are the light of the world. And so
the idea behind you are the salt of the earth, uh,
is the idea of in, in the ancient world, of course,
salt was used predominantly as a uh
As a preservative. And so, you know, rather than stick
(42:08):
stuff in the refrigerator because they didn't have it or
the freezer, they salted everything and that preserved it. And
so when Jesus says you are the salt of the earth, he's,
he's saying you're, you know, you're the ones that are
going to keep the world from rotting in a sense.
But when you think of the analogy, you have to
remember that
The salt would do nothing for the preservation of the
(42:33):
meat unless it was rubbed into the meat. So in
other words, you, if you're, uh, if the salt never
connects with the meat, it doesn't do its job. So
if we're the salt of the earth, that means we're
gonna have to connect with people, um, just like Jesus
did in the house of Matthew. And, and then I
think to the light of the world. I mean, the,
(42:54):
you know, a light.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna leave here in a while and
I'm gonna go outside. I do not need a light
because it's already light, but I'm gonna need a light
when it gets dark. So, uh, the light is intended
for the darkness, and so if we're, uh, you know,
trying to stay away from the darkness,
(43:17):
Well, that's not what a light is for. A light
is to be turned on in the darkness. So, so we,
you know, so it, it's kind of the, even though
the Bible doesn't use this exact terminology like we do,
but it, but it is the ideas there, be in
the world but not of the world. And so, you know,
I think that we need to do a better job
at that. We need to be in the world, we
(43:39):
need to be around people and, and like you said, Phil,
and I think we discussed, this is a, I think
it the
The real moment here for the, the father is I
want to support my son who needs Jesus. And so I'm,
I'm just looking any way I can to build some
bridges and it's not gonna hurt me to hear some
(44:03):
Bad language and to see some.
Blood and guts. So, and to me this is where like,
this is where light and darkness lives in that it's
hard to like, if you just wanna generalize an answer,
and that's no disrespect to Steve. I think it's a
great conversation that he's allowing us to have. So thank you, Steve,
(44:24):
but
I think when you try to like just kinda create
that blanket like general idea, it does get a little wonky,
a little bit difficult, but light and darkness, the context
is so specific to the situation, to the moment, to
the opportunity, right? So like, if we just kind of
generally say, like, should I go to horror movies with
a bunch of swearing and
them. Well, that, it's gonna be real hard to, to, to, to,
(44:46):
to say, absolutely, that's where I need to be. But
then if you say, should I go and support my
son who's made this movie, who doesn't have a relationship
with Christ and really wants me to be there, uh, oh,
that just changed the whole conversation. So I think we
need to, like,
When, when we're talking about like the darkness of the world,
we're talking about specific context whereby we can represent the
(45:08):
light of Jesus. It's not just simply that we just
exist wherever darkness is, uh, you know, just for funsies,
but that we're like, we're being very intentional. It's, it's
a missional living approach. And, and so, I'm just thinking about,
you know, your life in Europe for 20 years and
I'm thinking about my uh ventures into Europe, paving the
way for you.
(45:29):
Uh, when I first went to Eastern Europe, we did
all of our ministry in what what they call discos,
which British people would call pubs and Americans would call bars.
So that's where, that's where we found our audience and
you know, that's the door the Lord opened and so
we went into these places and we uh we took
(45:53):
music into these places because that was, that was a
place to connect and
Um, you know, a friend of mine who, who was
with us, who was a great musician, guitar player, um,
he was doing Jimi Hendrix songs and then we were
throwing in a worship song or two here and there, so,
and Phil, you know better than anybody that bore some
(46:15):
fruit and we still have, uh, people today that we
know and love who came to GE.
through those efforts of us I mean one of our
one of our pastors got saved because we were out
there playing U2 songs at a bar and uh he,
you know, loved U2 music and we strike up conversation
and he sobers up the next day and gets saved
(46:35):
and grows in the Lord and starts a church, so.
You know, and, and I mean, I wasn't even just
for context too, I wasn't even old enough to go
to a bar in America when I was out there, uh,
and it was a different, but, but we were there
with such specific focus, right? It was like, dude, this
is the door that's open and we gotta walk through
this and, and I was, I would, I would say
(46:56):
one last thing too with Steve, um, I, I think
Steve too, I think that there is um.
The individual, and I think you even alluded to it,
you know, each of us are gonna have our individual
convictions about things like this. And I, you know, if
somebody feels strong, like, you know, I, I can't, I, I'm,
I don't think I should go into a thing like that.
I'm never gonna tell them like, oh no, you, you
(47:17):
need to, you need to go with your conviction. And if,
if you have the conviction, like I can't go to that, uh,
even if like it was an evangelistic opportunity, I just
can't be in that space.
Hey, that is perfectly understandable, and that is entirely uh
acceptable between you and the Lord, so.
(47:39):
Did you guys dress like John Travolta when you went
to these discos? That's what everybody's wondering right now. They
can just picture Phil and Brian you know and the whites. Phil,
why did they call him alive? No, it was like,
I think it was from the word like discotheque. They
would just use discotheque. It was like the French. I,
I have no idea, but thankfully they don't call them
that anymore. They go more by the name like bar,
(48:02):
which even that is a little.
a little bit like it's not a fair term because
like you would never in America say I'm gonna go
to the bar and you know, whatever, but it's like,
it's like the hangout, like the pub, like you said,
a restaurant, a restaurant I mean maybe like a club, right?
It was, it was. I mean, that's really what what
they were doing, yeah, but they called it disco and
you know, we were, I mean that was part of
the part of the drawback for me was like, you know, I,
(48:25):
I can't go into a disco.
I didn't have like the right outfit, you know, I
didn't have the polyester pants or the height.
I was born in the 70s. I was not wearing
any John Travolta outfits. OK. It's funny because here at
the Kwave Studios, uh, we have this. Anybody who's ever
(48:46):
been here knows about the disco ball that we have
out in the hallway. So now we know why that's there.
It's to pay homage to.
He's going on circa 90s, and, you know, every now
and again, Brian comes in with his bell bottoms on
and his platform shoes and you know it stands under
the ball. That's right. That's right. And see, we only
(49:06):
see from the waist up, like we just see his,
you know, shoulders and all. Nobody's seeing what a party animal, yeah.
This is true. This divulging. This is digressing. Yes, yes,
that happens often on this program. Steve, thank you so
much for your phone call here on Pastor's Perspective. One
more question on the same topic, Scott, what did you
(49:27):
want to add?
Hi gentlemen, I just wanted to say that I like
that topic and it was a good one. It was
good enough for me to feel I wanted to call
and just basically say let's hypothetically say it was me
and I'm gonna go support my son that was at
his premiere of a horror movie. I would definitely want
(49:49):
to support him and perhaps maybe could I get away
with wearing my Jesus loves you t-shirt?
I think you can, uh, I think, man, that would
be great if that's, if that's what you wanted to wear.
And you know, I don't think there's anything wrong, right,
with when someone comes up and asks you and says,
(50:10):
I like your shirt, and then all of a sudden
you're gonna have an open door for spreading the gospel. Absolutely. Yeah.
I think you should just make your own shirt that
says life without Jesus is scary, and then use that
as your kind of, you know, opening. There you go. I,
I think it's cool. I, I love what you're describing and,
and whether it's a t-shirt or whatnot, we just have
(50:31):
to go in with a mindset that says, I'm, I'm
ready for God to use me. I mean, he came
to bring light in dark places and
And uh yeah, whether it's a t-shirt or whatever, yeah,
I think we just got to look for those opportunities.
That's right, shine your light. Scott, thanks for calling in.
Here is Alicia in Huntington Beach. Welcome to Pastor's Perspective, Alicia.
(50:54):
Hi, I hope you guys can hear me. Loud and clear.
Yay, um, so my question is, you know how in
the Bible it says we should not store our treasures
on earth for moths or rust or thieves can steal
and break in and destroy them, and then we should
store them in heaven instead. What are those treasures that
(51:16):
we store in heaven? Well, I think that the treasures,
I mean, obviously it's not, you know, literal treasure, but it's,
it's
I think that the point that Jesus is making is
that we are, we are laboring not for
You know, the, the earthly things that will ultimately perish,
but we're laboring for the things of the kingdom that will, um,
(51:42):
That
That we will receive a blessing from in eternity beyond
beyond this life. So it's the, you know, it's basically
just having the priority in the things of the kingdom,
having the priority in the things of heaven versus uh
the priority of materialism and the things here on earth.
(52:05):
Yeah, it's like we, you know, like here, like if
you go dig up a uh an ancient ship and
find like Spanish gold coins, like that's like you could
use that, that has value here in, you know, in
the world. But the treasures of heaven, they they, it's,
it's like you said, Brian, I, I was thinking of
the word value, like the things that are valued in heaven,
you know, faithfulness, obedience, surrender, humility, patience, grace.
(52:26):
peace, you know, sharing our faith, you know, those kinds
of things are, you know, money is not a value
point in heaven. The streets are paved with gold, the
Bible says. It just means gold doesn't mean anything. Um,
but what does matter, man, faithful living, godly living, character, obedience,
these are the things that, um, will go from this
life and that extend into the life to come.
(52:48):
Alicia, thank you for your phone call today on Pastor's Perspective.
Let's squeeze in one more. Steve and San Marcos, go ahead.
What's your question for us today?
Speaker 2 (52:57):
Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call. Um, was a
big fan of Chuck Smith, went to church there for
a long time. Uh, question is, so, you know, I've
been struggling with, uh, you know, my life over the
last 5 years. I'm 60 years old. I lived a
blessed life until about 5 years ago. A lot of
rain in my life, a lot of job, just not
(53:18):
panning out at this portion of my life.
Long story short, I have this this company that gave
me like 2025 hours, you know, basically $18.20 dollars an hour, whatever,
working like a fence line at Costco, you know, people
just kind of look at you and you hold out
a pamphlet. I feel bad because uh they kind of
(53:40):
gave this gig to me, but I've been putting out resumes,
you know, I live in San Diego, it's very expensive.
And I've been on interviews in a company finally.
God has blessed me with a company that's gonna give
me $30 an hour plus commission. Um, they're paid medical,
which I'm a diabetic, insulin dependent insurances, and I haven't
(54:03):
had insurance over 2 years, so it's been tough. My question,
long story short is, I mean, I never liked letting
people down. I don't like hurting people. I don't like
being ungodly and
You know, I just need to take this job and they're,
they're kind of like really on me a little bit
about it, and I just told them, I said, I,
(54:24):
I have to survive. I have to
survive.
Speaker 1 (54:27):
So you're saying that you don't want to be ungodly.
What part of this is being ungodly?
Speaker 2 (54:32):
By letting them down, by going to another
job.
Speaker 1 (54:36):
Got it. OK, Brian, what would you say to Steve?
Well, Steve, I, I mean, you know, obviously you're well
liked at the place that you're at and you're doing
a good job and they're like, oh we love to
see Steve stick around, but, um, they're not gonna pay you, uh,
double what they're paying you and this company sounds like
(54:58):
they're going to the new one and you know, you,
you just have to take care of yourself. I would,
I would just see this as a blessing that God has.
Brought you and accepted and.
You know, God bless the, the, the people you've been
with and, you know, thank God for that season, but it's,
(55:18):
it's time to move on. The Lord's providing in a
fresh new way and uh just receive the blessing. Yep, Phil,
20 seconds.
It's a job and it's good that they want you.
That means you are a good worker, but it's OK
to move on from one job and go to another job.
It's fine. Do it. Steve, thanks for your phone call
today on Pastor's Perspective. We have run out of time,
but we will be back tomorrow. So if you couldn't
(55:40):
call in today, please call in tomorrow. We open up
the phone lines about 7 minutes before 3 o'clock for
Pastor Brian Broderson of Echoes of Mercy.com and Phil Metzger
from Calvary San Diego. I'm Brian Perez, and we will
talk to you next time here on Pastor's Perspective.
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