October 10, 2025 • 56 mins
Pastors' Perspective is a one-hour call-in program where listeners can call in and get answers to questions about the Bible, Christianity, family, and life. The program is live Monday through Friday from 3:00 PM - 4:00 PM Pacific. You can call 888-564-6173 to ask your questions.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:16):
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm Michael David in
for Brian Perez, the number to call is 888-564-6173. Again, 888-564-6173,
and on this Friday's program, we have, as we normally do.
Many times, Brian and Cheryl Broderson, and you can get
(00:37):
more information about them at their website echoesofMercy.com. By the way,
you can come and watch Back to Basics Live with
Pastor Brian at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa. It's an in-depth
Bible teaching and prayer every Sunday night at 6:30, and
uh if you can't get there in person, you can
watch it online at back to Basradio.com/live. That's right. I
(01:02):
got it, yeah.
Yeah, what, what, what's that? What, what did you say?
I said that's good. She did. I, I would say
Michael David did really well. thank you Cheryl. You're welcome. OK,
so I've got an ear out because I've got this
condition and um called mane and so every once in
(01:23):
a I'll flare up and I'll lose my hearing in
my right ear and I'll have these uh spells of
vertigo and Brian.
I think listen to too much rock and roll when
he was young he was part of a rock and
roll band even. And so we are having, we're gonna
have to learn sign language. We are having so much,
you know, um.
It's so many issues trying to communicate at home and
(01:45):
we're turning to each other going, What? What? What? And
if we're not in the same room, forget it, we
don't even know that the other one's talking. And every
time I listen to a podcast with my um
Ear ear pod, you know, it's telling me the decibel
level is too dangerous. You need to turn it down.
Like I can't hear it if I turn it down. Yeah,
(02:07):
that's where we're at. Very needs here we come. Well,
with our Medicare, we actually get a discount now, so
this is good.
So we might both be visiting an audiologist and you
know what people, listeners, aging is just fine, but it
does come with a lot of new accessories.
Yes. Yes, yes, yes, unfortunately. So I wanted to take
(02:31):
a minute as we, uh, jump in here today. A
dear dear friend, uh, whose church that I am actually
scheduled to speak at this Sunday in LA, um, he
came down to see me a couple weeks ago and
we were, you know, having a conversation, and he's, he's
had a heart condition for many, many, many years from
(02:52):
the time he was young, in his twenties, he had
a
Uh, pacemaker put in and, and all of this stuff. And,
and so anyway, his cardiologist down here, so he came
to visit his cardiologist, but he was telling me that
he's been going through a lot of cognitive things and
he just wasn't sure and his, you know, life is
(03:12):
considerably stressful. We talked about how stress can can sometimes
do that and and so forth. So anyway, we were
Uh, you know, we got this big plan. I'm gonna
speak on Sunday and it's gonna be great, and, um,
I get a message from his wife today that he
started having some, some pretty intense, uh, symptoms and, uh,
(03:35):
Wednesday he went in for, um,
A CAT scan and they discovered a tumor uh in
his head that they said is the size of his fist.
So he is waiting right this moment to go into surgery.
And so they're trying, you know, they're trying to run
(03:55):
all the tests. It's difficult because with his heart condition
and with, uh, you know, with the, um, pacemaker and
all that, really, they're not supposed to do an MRI
but his cardiologist, under these circumstances, the cardiologist said, yeah,
you're gonna need to do it because they need to
see everything they can possibly see, you know, before they
go in.
So Lorenzo Smith is his name and he's a dear
(04:17):
dear friend. He was part of our ministry team here
years ago and his wife used to be have a,
a personal only wife she she worked for, yes, I
remember Isabel and Lorenzo, yes, Isabel Lawa Smith. And so anyway,
I would love it to um just have our, our
listeners be, be praying for the Smiths, be praying specifically
(04:39):
for Lorenzo.
And I wanted to do that right now. So Father,
we come to you and, and Lord, we thank you
that nothing escapes you that nothing's too hard for you
and Lord Lorenzo is your servant and uh you love
him and you're you're working in and through him and Lord,
we pray that this uh tumor would be eradicated. We
(05:03):
pray that it would be removed and we pray that
there wouldn't be any.
Um, ongoing effects of it, Lord, you know all the
details about it before the doctors even get in there.
So Lord, we're committing Lorenzo to you and we're asking
for your intervention and Lord, for your healing touch and
we pray for uh Isabel and we pray for Jasline
(05:27):
and we pray for Amelia and we pray that your
presence would engulf them we pray that they would sense
that you're with them.
And Lord, we pray for the church collective and we
ask that you would uh encourage and bless and uh
strengthen your your people as they watch their pastor go
(05:50):
through this season. Uh, may all of them come through
it gloriously with a a fresh.
Just sense of, of your presence and power. So we
commit it all to you now, and we pray these
things and commit them to you in the name of Jesus. Amen. Amen. Yes,
I remember Lorenzo and right, yes, yes, and uh she's
(06:14):
the sister of the guy in the cry, right? The
guy in the cry, yeah, Jean Luc and Eve, yeah,
and they wrote the song Take My Hand about her. Yes, yes,
and yeah, I mean a long, long history. I remember when.
You know, they were from Quebec and um so John
Luke and Eve were part of our church, Cheryl and
(06:34):
I when we pastored at Vista and they and um
they came from um well they came from Quebec, but
they came through Albuquerque and um Pete Nelson, of course,
with them, but all that to say, um, Isabel, she
when she first came down to visit them, she wasn't
a Christian.
And so it was through a process of time that
(06:56):
she came to the Lord. So we saw her, you know,
come to the Lord and the amazing transformation that began
to take place in her life, and yeah, it's all wonderful,
and this is quite startling that we're trusting the Lord. Yeah, wow, wow. Well, yeah,
so everyone keep uh Lorenzo and
Isabella and their family and your prayers. Um, again, if
(07:16):
you want to talk to Brian and Cheryl Broderson about anything, uh,
the Bible, the Christian faith, or how to live the
Christian life, call 888-564-6173. Again, 888-564-6173. We are gonna start
with the Facebook questions, uh, that you can send to
us at facebook.com/pastors perspective, but we do prefer to hear
the sound of your voice, so call us at 888-564-6173.
(07:40):
The first one on Facebook is from Natalie. Natalie says,
I'm confused about the scripture that reads, to be absent
from the body is to be present with the Lord.
When you die as a Christian, but then there's a
scripture that said, the dead in Christ shall rise first.
Is that when the disembodied spirits in heaven are joined
(08:02):
with their raised conruptible bodies? Uh, what would you guys
say incorruptible bodies, yes.
Um, what did you say, Cheryl? I say yes. I
say she, she's got it by Jove, she's it. Do
you want to elaborate on? I wanna hear you elaborate. What? Yes,
I mean, you usually say this has been a quiet day.
(08:24):
I do not. This has been a quiet day, you know,
it's a quiet day. OK. And who's who's asking the question?
Natalie Natalie Natalie, hopefully you're listening and um.
Yeah, you, you nailed it. So, um, the dead in
Christ to rise as a reference to the bodies, because,
of course, when you, when a person dies, they go
(08:46):
in their spirit to be with the Lord and then
um
The body that goes into the grave will one day
be resurrected. So that is definitely a a reference to
the resurrected bodies that will.
Um, be reunited with the spirit, and we don't know
(09:06):
exactly how this works, but, you know, we're just piecing
together what scripture says, and um,
Yeah, that'll take place and and the rapture will take
place um.
Simultaneous to that, so the passage in Thessalonians, uh, 1
Thessalonians 4, the dead in Christ shall rise first, and
(09:30):
we who are alive and remain shall be caught up
together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord
in the air. Mhm. Yep. All right, very good.
Cheryl, did you want to say anything about that? No,
I thought he did really, really, really well.
Thank you, Cheryl. You're welcome.
I told you it's a quiet day.
(09:53):
Great answer to Natalie's question. Pastor Brian on uh at
facebook.com slash Pastor's perspective. Another Facebook question, this one comes
from Jessica, and she says, Do you think Jesus got
sick being fully human? I think of Matthew 8 where
he healed the leper by touching him. Do you think
he would get it too?
(10:13):
Or but also being fully God, was he immune to
any diseases? Uh, what would you guys say toss? Well,
that's interesting and and Sheryl's gonna answer this question, but
I just want to clarify one thing. Jesus was fully
human except he did not have sin. So it wouldn't
have been the fact that he was God that kept
him from sickness if he'd never experienced sickness. It would
(10:35):
have been his sinlessness. So, but what do you say, Cheryl?
I would say exactly what you just said, seriously. I
was like, um.
No, because he did not have sin. He had a
sinless nature and it would be because of that sinless nature,
not because of um being human or being God that
he was kept from it, but it was his sinless
(10:57):
because you know the curse of sin is death and
so because you know he didn't have any sin you
know it's interesting because he said you know um.
The God of this world is judged in John chapter 12,
and he has nothing on me. And again, you know,
it's interesting though because you know, Isaiah 53, of course,
(11:18):
says that he, you know, translations vary, but it, but
it definitely says there that he bore our sicknesses. And
then where's the passage in Matthew where it actually Jesus
is healing people and it says that he's doing so
in fulfillment of bearing burying their sicknesses. And so, um,
You know, that looks like it's saying that he's taking
(11:40):
the sickness upon himself. Uh, so just, you know, what,
what exactly does that mean? In, in his death on
the cross, in, in the atonement, of course, he would have,
like Isaiah 53 says, uh, he bore our griefs, uh,
carried our sorrows, but the, but the word griefs, it can,
(12:02):
is actually more literally sicknesses. He bore our sicknesses.
And so, but where's that passage and is it Matthew
12 or I thought it was Matthew 122, but um
I know at the end of Matthew 9 it talks about,
you know, that all that came to him were healed,
you know, but that was what I was thinking that
it was 12 also but we played this game together.
(12:25):
And what we'll do is Brian will say a scripture
and I'll have to, you know, tell him the chapter
and verse. I'm pretty good at getting to the book
and to the chapter, and I'll give Brian a scription.
He's pretty good. He can get it within two, verses,
you know, so. But on this occasion, and is it,
is it any of the ones on the screen right now?
(12:46):
Any of the ones on the screen? No, it's, it's
definitely in the Gospels. OK, so put in sickness, type,
type sickness.
Uh, isn't the internet. The internet is great. Yeah, Matthew 8:17.
This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah.
He took our illnesses and bore our diseases. Well, Brian,
this is how I see it. We got an even
(13:07):
number right. We knew Matthew.
You knew Matthew and we knew it was an even number. OK. OK, so, um, yeah,
so when he says here, when Matthew says, um, this
was spoken to fulfill what the prophet Isaiah said, of course,
he's quoting from Isaiah 53. So he, and again, you know,
(13:27):
it depends on what.
Version you're reading like the new King James version which
Charlotte and I both pretty much um assimilated into our
bloodstream over the years um he bore our griefs and
carried our sorrows, but I think almost all of the
other translations add sicknesses because that literally is the Hebrew. So,
(13:51):
but what, but what do you, I, I mean.
So, you know, this was to fulfill what was to fulfill.
The context is he's healing people. That's what's happening. So I,
I mean, I've always wondered about that like, so what
does that mean at the moment? Well, he carried, he
carried our sins and sorrows, you know, all the way
to Calvary, but that on that cross he was dealing
(14:13):
with the sickness that's where the payment for all the
healings took place was at Calvary.
So it doesn't mean that their sicknesses were transferred onto
him bodily at the at the moment. Yeah, but they
were definitely transferred to the cross and covered them. But
he was assuming that he might die for them to
set them free, which is
(14:35):
The nominal
Amen. Amen. Great answers to Jessica's question on Facebook. Uh,
before we go to the calls at 888-564-6173, we'll do
one more Facebook question. This comes from Anthony and Rancho Cucamonga,
and it's about Isaiah chapter 45 verse 3. Can you explain?
what is meant by Jesus saying, I will give thee
(14:59):
the treasures of darkness. Are these evil treasures that he
is talking about? No, it's the treasury that we get
in those dark places when we don't know what we're
doing or going, and it also has to do with, um,
when you're when you're in places that are hard and
the suffering.
(15:19):
There is a reward at the end of it. I
think that I, I think if you couple this with
maybe Psalm 66, where it says he laid affliction on
their backs, but he brought them out to rich fulfillment.
And there is something, you know, it's so funny because
I was trying to find that scripture today for my devotions.
I was like, I want to find it. But yeah,
(15:40):
the context is really not that. I wanted it to
be because it's a message to Cyrus.
Yeah. And so, yeah, he'll give Cyrus. So the Lord
says this to Cyrus, his anointed, whose right hand I
have grasp to subdue nations before him. Now, let's just
remember Cyrus is the one who conquers Babylon, OK? And so, um,
(16:04):
God says, you know, uh, he's gonna to subdue nations, uh,
disarm kings, God's gonna do this, open doors before him.
Uh, even the city gates will not be shut. He
was the one that that broke into Babylon. Uh, and
I will go before you and level the uneven places.
I will shatter the bronze doors and cut the iron
(16:24):
bars in two.
I will give you the treasures of darkness and the
riches of secret places. So the treasures of darkness here
would be the hidden treasures. So he's, he's telling him, yeah,
basically of Babylon, yes, I'm gonna give you everything in Babylon.
I am corrected. So, so I mean, you know, you could.
Uh, there's other passages that would
(16:48):
Lend to what Cheryl was saying, the kind of application
of it. Cheryl wants it to say.
But this is not one of
So, but you could say, you know, this, but this
does remind us of, there are other places where God
gives us hidden treasures, you know, we could, we could
do something like that with it, but the, but the
literal interpretation.
(17:12):
Well, you know, we give each other a break, but
you know it's so funny because I was looking for
that today, not realizing that was in the context of Cyrus,
so I'm so glad you brought out the context because
you know I'm like, oh wait, treasures of darkness, but
I think that maybe what I'm thinking more in the
context is like where uh Paul talks about in Philippians,
the fellowship of his sufferings that there is and and
(17:34):
then again Psalm 66 where you know he lays.
Um, he, he laid, uh, affliction on our back, but
he brought us out to rich fulfillment, and you know,
David said, well, we think it was David who wrote
Psalm 119, but he said it was good that I
was afflicted that I might draw near to you and
I might learn your learn your ways, yeah commands, yeah.
(17:58):
Now Anthony from Rancho Cucamonga said Jesus was saying this.
Was Jesus saying this? No, this is the Lord is
saying this uh through Isaiah. I mean, in some ways
it's Jesus because Jesus and God are the same, but
you know, if that was it would be like more
of a interesting thing about this particular passage historically is
(18:19):
that the the the tradition, Jewish tradition is that when
Cyrus came into
Um, Babylon, and this is, you know, this is when
the Jews were ultimately liberated from their 70 years of captivity. Um, they,
they say that that the Jewish leaders took the scroll
(18:42):
of Isaiah to Cyrus and showed him his name, that
God had.
Um, you know, predicted that God had told in advance
100 years before the event that just happened. That would
be crazy. That would be absolutely crazy to see your
name in this ancient book and go, wow, there is a.
(19:03):
And this, and you know, this whole passage right here,
these like 3 chapters, so much of it that God
is speaking to Cyrus. And you know what else would
move this, this, this king.
To let the Jews go free into their own homeland
and allow them to build a temple because it was
pretty much a policy against, you know, people were allowed
to repopulate, but to build a temple back to their
(19:25):
god usually was a sign of insurrection as you will
see when you read um Ezra and Nehemiah that especially
in Ezra, that the, you know, symbolic, I mean, these
others who were uh writing.
To, uh, back to Persia saying, you know, you don't
want to let these Jews build their temple. You don't
(19:45):
want them to finish this because they have a history
of rebellion and once this temple is up and running,
you know, they're going to rebel against you, they're gonna,
you know, become a nation again and rally around this.
And so you see that for Cyrus to even allow
this is just, um, it had to be something so moving. Yeah, and,
and remember when he goes back when the when the
(20:07):
Jews go back to Judah, he uh.
He actually writes a proclamation, you know, that, and he
says the God of heaven has called me to build
him a temple, rebuild.
All right, so that's a lot of unexpected conversation about
(20:27):
Cyrus today. Who knew? I know. Well, it was, it
started out. I was trying to rectify my really it's OK. Well, it's,
it's my mission. We see that it's good that you've
been deferring to me today, I guess you know I
told you it's a quiet day.
Great answers from Brian and Cheryl to Anthony from Rancho
Cucamonga who contacted us on Facebook.com/pastors perspective, but now we're
(20:50):
gonna go to the phone lines at 888-564-6173 and talk
to Pete and San Pedro. Pete, welcome to the program.
Yes, thank you for taking my call. And my question is,
I guess my first question is, does it say in
Romans 11 that all Israel will be saved because I,
(21:12):
I was debating with my relative about that, and my
answer was no, that only a remnant, but I can't,
I can't even find it in Romans 11 now where
it says that. So that's my first question, but I
was listening.
Pastor Chuck on the word for today, where he was
saying that actually where Paul says all of Israel is
(21:33):
not all of Israel. There's spiritual Israel, the ones who believe,
and then there's just the ones that are actually from Israel.
So I didn't catch what scripture he was teaching from.
And so it was kind of a double, or just
it all pertains to the same thing. I just was
wondering your
Um, what you think about it and also that if
(21:55):
you know the scripture pastor Chuck. Yeah, it's, it's, uh,
Romans 11:26 is the is the passage that you're thinking of. No,
that's the one that all Israel will be saved, will
be saved. Yeah. So, so you have to remember that
Romans 11 is talking about the future restoration of Israel.
So when Jesus comes,
(22:17):
And, um, you know, like Zachariah says, they will look
upon him whom they pierced, they will mourn for him
as one mourns for an only son. Uh, in that day, uh,
a fountain will be opened in Jerusalem, uh, the spirit
of grace and supplication will be poured upon them and
a and a fountain for cleansing. And so, yes, all Israel,
(22:39):
every living Jew.
Uh, at that time will be saved, and that is
what that is what Paul is talking about. So, you know,
Romans 9 through 11 is, is the explanation for, uh,
you know, God having set aside the nation, and there's
a remnant from the nation that Paul is a part of,
(23:02):
but then the majority of the nation has been um
set aside until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled.
And that's what uh that's where it all kind of
climaxes in the 11th chapter. And then he was asking
about the scripture that
Not all Israel. Yeah, and, and there there are passages,
you know, where Paul is is making that statement, like
(23:24):
in Romans chapter 2, you know, where he says, uh,
for example, he says, uh, you know, he is not
a Jew who has won outwardly, but he is a
Jew who has won inwardly. Circumcision is not outward in
the flesh, but it, but it's of the heart. And then, um,
in Galatians and again in Romans, Paul will say that.
So he's talking about at the moment, um,
(23:47):
He's talking about those Jews who are, they're Jews ethnically,
but they're because they've rejected the Messiah, they're not really
in relation to God.
And you know, because nobody can come into a relationship
with God unless they come through Jesus. So. And in Galatians, um,
(24:07):
Paul makes a differentiation between Ishmael and Isaac and says,
you know, both are sons biologically of Abraham, but one
is according to the flesh what Abraham could do.
And the other one through Sarah is through the promise
and he relates that to Israel at at, you know,
(24:31):
even now that those who are of the promise, which is,
you know, Jesus Christ the Messiah, these are the true
Israel and those who don't know Jesus are just biological
but not spiritual. And so that's the difference that he's
making there so.
Um, you know, it's interesting because Brandon and I were
(24:51):
talking about the same subject today cause I happened to
be in Daniel, um, in my, um, personal Bible studies,
and we're talking about Daniel chapter 7 and about, um,
when Jesus is the, the, um.
When Jesus takes the authority and the power and the
glory straight from the Father, he's he alone is able
(25:12):
to approach this fiery throne of God and and receive
all of that so that he can rule and reign,
but it was talking in that chapter about the war
on the saints, and we're talking about how the saints
in the context of Daniel are not talking about Christians,
but are talking about the nation of Israel.
(25:34):
And how for 3.5 years they'll be oppressed by the
anti-Christ until the Lord returns and slays him with the
breath of his mouth. I mean, we were getting kind
of excited about that one and we were talking about
how easily God puts down the forces of evil when
he's coming. Yeah, we're talking about how you think of how,
how almost impossible sometimes it is, you know, you think
(25:58):
of different periods in history, you know, you think of
like during the um
You know, like during during slavery or or the Jim
Crow era, for example, where Satan has such a grip
in the culture that these people cannot be you can't
break that evil. It's just, it just, it's unbreakable, or
you think about the Nazis, and you think about how
(26:20):
they were able to do what they did and and
how could it even be stopped. And then we're talking
about Jesus, how he will slay them with the breath
of his lips. He will speak a word.
And we were even talking about Hamas, you know, how
Hamas has dug its claws in and you know, they're
like prying one.
You know, one talent one talent at a time off,
(26:43):
but Jesus just says, Stop it, you're done. It's over,
you know, he slays them with the breath of his lips.
But we were also talking to that the tribulation has
to do with the humbling of Israel and get it
they're going to be broken according to Daniel chapter 12,
that their pride will be broken.
(27:05):
And at that point when Jesus reveals himself as the,
you know, one and only Son of God and they
wait for him as of an only begotten Son, an
only son. When the power of the holy people is
completely shattered, then Jesus will come.
(27:25):
Wow. Another long answer to a short question. Thorough answer,
thorough answer. Did that help you, Pete? You both, but
are you still there? Yes, I'm still here. Go ahead. OK, great.
I just wanted to, uh, add, so in other words, uh,
Gentile or Jewish, you still have to believe in Jesus
to be yes, no, no salvation from Jesus. Yeah, Jesus
(27:48):
said if you
If you do not honor me, you do not honor
the Father that sent me, and he said, if you
hate me, you hate the father that sent me. And
so he makes it very clear that, you know, he said,
I am the way, the truth in life. There is no, uh,
way to the Father except through me. I think John
chapter 8, you know, where Jesus is speaking to the,
(28:09):
to the leaders of the nation, he says, unless you
believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.
That's and he's talking to Jews.
Amen. Yes, so, so Pete, I did wanna ask you,
do you say San Pedro or San Pedro?
San Pedro, San Pedro. I'm gonna try to say it
like that. San Pedro from now on. Well, is that
(28:30):
the proper way to say it, or is that just
the way Pete says it? No, it is. He's right, yeah, OK,
like the name Pedro, Pedro, right, Pedro Garcia, Saint Peter.
That's what it is, yes, there you go.
I was just there a couple of weeks ago and
I hadn't been there in ages, so, uh, Pete, it's,
it's Saint Pete Pete from Saint Pete, my name is
(28:56):
not Peter. I wish it was, it's actually a French name, Pittan,
is that right? What does that mean in French though?
It's, um, well, my dad was named Patan and he
always went by Pete. Otherwise I'd say Peter. Well maybe
that maybe that's French for Peter. Yeah, it's close enough
(29:16):
for us.
Well thank you Pete or Patan from San Pedro calling
us at 888-564-6173. We're gonna take more of your calls
on the second half of the program with Brian and
Cheryl Broderson, so call us now 888-564-6173 if you'd like
to get on the air and talk to Brian and Cheryl.
That's the number to call 888-564-6173 888-564-6173. We'll see you
(29:43):
in just a few minutes on the second half of
Pastor's Perspective.
(30:16):
Welcome back to the second half of Pastor's Perspective. I'm
Michael David in for Brian Perez. I'm joined by Brian
and Cheryl Bruderson. The number to call is 888-564-6173. Again, 888-564-6173.
We'll go right back to the phones and talk to
Bill from Ontario. Bill, welcome to the program.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Hi, how are you, are you folks doing? Hey, um,
so I'm calling because someone told me, just, I think
it was just yesterday, my friend told me, and then
another friend told me some time ago, then another my
nephew told me back in Memphis when I was visiting
several months ago, but they said that I
Use Christian too much, you know, like, why do you
(30:58):
have to use the word Christian and I said, what
do you mean?
You know, one example is like we have this text
chain with a Christians on it, and whenever I text
something I just say I say good afternoon Christians or
I'll say something like a certain conversation it may I
say that, well I'm a Christian, so I don't know
(31:19):
about that or I'm or you know, and I, you know,
I 3 times I've been told that that I can
remember distinctively and I'm just wondering.
Can you, can you use the Christian word too much
or something? What what what is?
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Not that I know of, but you know, it's interesting
because I was telling Brian, I'm right now reading through
um an archaeological Bible. So it, it has like these
articles of uh that will deal with findings by obviously
archaeologists and how it relates to the Bible passage I'm reading.
And I was in Acts and it was in Antioch
(31:54):
and it was talking about how
Uh, believers in Jesus were first called Christians in Antioch,
and actually the word Christian was at first considered derisive
because they were calling them Christ slaves, like they're slaves
of Christ, so it's supposed to be really derisive.
But the Christians are like, wow, slaves of Jesus, yeah,
(32:16):
we're into that yeah we'll claim it. And so they
begin to call themselves Christians, you know, some people will say,
oh they're it's Christ likeness, but it's not the actual
meaning was slaves of Christ and these people took it
when I was growing up in the Jesus people movement,
the papers derisively called us Jesus people and it was
(32:37):
meant to be derisive. In fact, I had kids.
Say it to me at a public school and it
was meant to be derisive and pretty soon it became
the greatest compliment like thank you Jesus freak, yeah, that
was yeah that was a derogatory one too, but you know,
a lot of people loved it, you know I called
people that when I was, did you know did you
(32:57):
know accosted by hippies on the Huntington Beach. Did you know? OK, well,
this is going to be a discussion obviously over dinner.
How did I marry you? No, I'm just kidding. 45
years later. What? You did? What? Oh, you knew that. No,
I didn't. Honestly, that one I didn't know. I knew
about the cantaloupe that hit you in the head, but
I did not know about that. No wonder you got
(33:20):
hit in the head with the cantaloupe.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
I like what you said. I like what you said
about slaves of, of, of Christ.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yes,
Speaker 2 (33:32):
I like that. I think that really.
Really, really, I think that really explains a lot slaves
of Christ.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Christianos is the is one
Speaker 2 (33:41):
more
Speaker 1 (33:41):
question,
Speaker 2 (33:42):
one more question. My, my friend, the one I was
talking to yesterday who said yesterday that I use Christian
too much, uh, she, and I told, I told her, uh, that,
you know, if you, if you believe in the 10 Commandments, well, uh, uh, uh,
my friend, um, I grew up with, he's a preacher
back in Memphis, and I, we were talking and he said,
We were talking about Christians and, and God, and he said, well,
(34:05):
As long as I, I, I follow the 10 Commandments,
so I think I'm all right. So I told my,
my friend, I said, if you follow the 10 Commandments,
you'll get to heaven. And she said, No, I don't
show me in the Bible where it says you, if
you follow the 10 Commandments, you'll go to heaven.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
OK, wait, let Pastor Brian answer that one. Go ahead. Yeah, well,
she's right, you know, because the problem is you can't
follow the 10 Commandments. That's the, that, that's the, um,
kind of catch 22, you know, for us that we.
Here's this law, um, that sets the standard that none
of us can live up to. And the, the letter
(34:44):
to the Galatians in the New Testament, Paul really makes
this clear. He said, if there had been a law
by which we could be saved, Christ didn't need to
go to the cross. But because there was no law
that could save us, and he's talking very specifically even
about God's law.
Um, that's why Jesus had to die. So actually Paul
(35:07):
tells us that the law was given in order to
point out to us what our sins are and to
convince us that we need another way to be saved
and to push us to Jesus. That that's what it does. So, um, yeah,
so you, so your friend friend is right on that, um.
(35:29):
You know, the 10 Commandments are the moral law, and
we end up once we're believers and the Holy Spirit
dwells in us, we end up living according to those laws,
but it's not on the basis of those 10 Commandments
that were saved. We're saved by putting faith in Jesus
that he died to do for us what we could
(35:51):
never do and not save ourselves by keeping laws or rules.
Great answer, great answer, um.
Bill, does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Yeah.
Yes, but, yes, but I told her you you, yeah,
if you're a believer, you have to be a believer. Yeah,
if you to follow the 10, you got to be
a believer first, you know,
Speaker 1 (36:12):
if
Speaker 2 (36:12):
you, if you would agree you're,
Speaker 1 (36:14):
yeah, yeah, yeah, but there are some who are just,
you know, morally upright and they do that, but they
don't think they need Jesus and I've met quite a
few of those who said, you know what, I'm OK.
I follow the 0 Commandments and I mean think about
how many Orthodox Jews think they're OK because they're following
the commands of God.
And you know, trying to, they're, you know, nobody actually
(36:37):
can do it, but they think they're all right because
they're following the 10 Commandments, but they don't have the Messiah.
They're not all right so I think that's a little
bit of a tricky question. You might have to concede
to her. You might, you just might. But you, but
you got it right in that, yeah. Jesus, Jesus precedes everything.
So once you come to Jesus, but even once you
(36:59):
come to Jesus, you're not keeping yourself.
Saved by keeping the 10 Commandments. You know, the 10
Commandments are in the Old Testament. So when we come
to Jesus, we don't need to go back to the
Old Testament to figure out how to live. Um, those
commandments are kind of, you know, they're strewn throughout the
teaching of the New Testament, most of them. And so we,
(37:22):
as we are living in obedience to God's word and
the spirit, we end up doing what the commands.
Called us to do and we do it by the
grace of God and by the spirit of God rather
than by trying by outward observances, which is the difference, yeah,
and we do it out of love versus fear, right?
(37:42):
All right, well, Bill from Ontario, thank you for calling
us here on Pastor's Perspective. We're gonna go from Ontario
to Himmet and talk to Taboo. Taboo, did I say
your name right?
Yeah, you said my name right. OK. All right. Welcome
to the program. How can we help you?
Well, thank you. Uh, first of all, I wanna say, uh,
I love what you guys are doing and, uh, Pastor
(38:04):
Broadus and you, you baptized me at, uh, Cory Chapel,
Costa Mesa about 5 years ago. Oh, that's great. I
am so glad, uh, that you're calling and get, get
to know that. Yeah.
How you doing? I still have that. I'm doing great.
I still have that picture of that day when you,
you dunked me in the water and pulled me back out.
(38:24):
I still remember that day like it was yesterday. Oh,
so cool. That's awesome. Love it.
All right, but, uh, uh, so my question is, is
about Judas. Yes, OK, so, uh, I've been doing research
on the whole trial of Jesus and the people involved
in it. So when I get to Judas, he just
confuses me. So, OK, so you walk with the Lord
for 3 years. OK, so, uh, and I know eventually
(38:47):
in the end Judas, he was lost. So the moment
he came in, the moment he came into Jesus's life,
the last 3 years, was he lost completely?
Even, even through all the teachings, everything that he saw
Jesus do perform through everything like there wasn't at one
point where he was like, you know what, uh, I,
(39:08):
I want this, but he just went the wrong way
about it like.
But my question is, like, was he, was, was there
any point in his walk with Jesus? Was he saved
at any point and then lost it, or was he
just completely lost? Yeah, good, good question. And I think
the answer is Jesus tells us the answer. He says, I've,
he's talking to the, you know, the apostles, and he says, uh,
(39:32):
have I not chosen the 12 of you, and yet
one of you is a devil.
And of course he's referring to Judas there. So, so what,
what I think we have to conclude by looking at
all the references to Judas is that even though he
was outwardly following Jesus, he never was a true believer.
(39:53):
So he was like, uh, you know, he was religious, obviously,
he was going through the motions, but he had uh
a different idea.
And it probably did not at all like the idea
of the atonement that Jesus was actually gonna die on
a cross, that was not his vision of the Messiah.
And so he was much like, you know, the people
(40:15):
that he betrayed Jesus to. So don't you think too
that you can kind of find the parallel to this
in Matthew chapter 13 when Jesus talks about the gospel
seed and what you see is that on one soil
it goes and it sprouts up quickly, but because it
has no root it withers and dies and Judas I'm
sure was impressed by Jesus in the beginning when Jesus
(40:38):
is healing.
Um, he probably was even impressed by his sermons, but
when he realized that Jesus was not going to take
him the way he wanted to go and obviously we're
told by John that Judas was a thief and he
used to steal from the money, so obviously we've got
a greed issue there.
And we've got probably someone who's very ambitious and you know,
(40:59):
thinks this is the way to get me and I,
I think that there's and and what's in it when
Mary broke the alabaster box, wasn't Judas is the one
who led the instigator of the.
Yeah, indignation, but I think too that what you have
even today, you've got people who will follow until they
realize that Jesus is not going to give them what
(41:20):
they want. He's going to give to others what he
wants because that's really better but I've known a lot
of people that said, well.
You know, I asked for this and he didn't do
it so I'm, I'm out of here and you know
a lot of people are deconstructing their faith today because
Jesus did not give them what they wanted and when
they realized that the road, you know, Jesus, I think
(41:41):
about um John chapter 8 when a lot of people
stopped following Jesus because he said unless you, you know,
eat my flesh and drink my blood, you can have
no part of me and they're like, you know this
is getting too weird we're out of here.
And he turned to Peter and he said, you know,
do you wanna, do you wanna leave me too? And
Peter said, You alone have the words of life, where
(42:01):
else would we go? So, um, what we see there
is that there were many followers of Jesus even during Jesus' lifetime,
but there weren't many disciples, and Judas at the end
proved to be a follower rather than a true disciple.
All right, great answers. Thank you, taboo, calling us from Hemet.
(42:22):
On 888-564-6173. We're gonna go from Hemet to Allison, who's
listening on the Kwave app. Allison, welcome to the program.
Hello, um, thanks for taking my call. I was just
curious what your perspective is on this whole Israel peace
(42:43):
ceasefire thing, um, yesterday that took place and all the
celebrations with the hostages being returned and
Um, the possible war that's gonna, you know, come to
a pause or even come to a halt, hopefully. But
where does it fall in line in regards to in
(43:06):
times I know that. Isn't Israel supposed to have a
period of peace? I don't think we're there yet because
the period of peace that we're talking about is when
the anti-Christ comes and he's going to come like a
Um, liver like a savior, like a great um negotiator.
So I think right now we are just in that
(43:28):
turmoil that precedes the end times when you hear about
wars and rumors of wars, and I think that, you know, it's,
it's a peace accord. I'm personally, I'm very excited because
we know so many Christians who live in Gaza. We
have um people um.
That we that live in California who have relatives in
(43:50):
Gaza who are born again Christians and they have had
to suffer so much, you know, from all of this unrest.
So we are so thankful for the peace accord. How
long it will last, I don't know, but at least
it gives a chance for the gospel to go back
into Gaza.
Uh, gives a chance uh to share and so but I,
(44:11):
I believe, you know, we are in personally I believe
we're in the last days and we're just going to
have upheaval after upheaval and you know I'm thankful for every,
every peace accord I'm thankful for every.
Um, moment of peace because you know we're told by
Paul that we are to pray for our governments that
(44:33):
we might live a peaceable life and so I think
that peace gives an opportunity for the gospel and so
I think that's where it would fall in right now.
And we're, like you said, Allison, we're, we're praying, you know, um,
somebody was asking me the other day about the whole
ceasefire and, and you know the hostages being returned and
(44:55):
all of that and I said, well, you know, they're
making a deal with the devil and you can never
trust the devil so let's just keep praying that this
goes through and that I just read today that they're
talking now about Sunday being the day when the when
the hostages would be returned.
So, my goodness, you know, I just feel like if
(45:16):
we could just get across that line, that would be
huge right there. So, you know, whether this will, um,
Who, who knows whether it will settle it, it won't,
you know, President Trump, I mean, you know, God bless him,
but he, you know, he talks about ending the 3000
year war and then bringing in everlasting peace. So, you know,
(45:38):
he's using language that just really is not appropriate for him.
He is not going to bring in everlasting peace. Uh,
there will continue to be skirmishes and conflicts and these
kinds of things because this is, this is what
Um, is really just bound to be the case until
(46:00):
Jesus comes and the people of Israel embrace the Messiah. So,
you know, we have this long period of time, of course,
we had, you know, a couple 1000 years almost of, of,
of no Jewish control over the land that God gave
to them.
And then we've come, we've been living now in a
(46:20):
time where they have had control once again, but it's
still the same time period where they're not in the
covenant with God. So, I think God is sovereignly working,
he's moved them back into the land. But when people say, well,
you know, what prophecies specifically are being fulfilled, I don't
think there's anyone you can point to and say, oh,
this is being fulfilled here, that's being fulfilled there, because
(46:42):
we're not quite there yet, uh, but we are in
a place where that
It's like the, you know, in some senses it's like
the stage is still being set for, for the final
things for the final act, yeah. Didn't my dad write
a book called The Final Act, which, which actually will
outline a lot of this too. Is that helpful, Alison? Uh, Alison,
(47:05):
let me bring you back on. Was that helpful?
Yes, and it's the final act, the book that Chuck
Smith wrote is at about the end time. Yeah, it's
one of them. He wrote 2 or 3 or 4
different ones, a couple of movies. That was one of them, yeah,
of the fig tree, yeah.
(47:25):
And you can get that uh uh go ahead.
At the chapel store?
Should they should have it yeah they should they better
they better have it.
And if the chapel store doesn't have it, you can
get it on Amazon.com. The final act some of some
of the stuff in the book, just, just a forewarning, forewarning,
you know, it'll be dated some of it and there
(47:45):
were ideas back then that, you know, seemed at the
time like, oh, this is exactly where it's headed and
and it didn't head there. But the general picture, like
Cheryl said earlier, you know, the general picture is that
and this is the really difficult part, uh, especially for Jews, um,
that there is an uh a world ruler that's going
to come.
(48:07):
That's going to deceive them and they are going to
think that he is actually the savior when in reality
he's not. So all of the like in times prophecy
stuff really revolves around that period. So like I said,
the things that we see happening now, we can see
a sort of preparation or foreshadows, uh, all throughout history
(48:28):
there have been.
Um, like way back in the period when the Greeks
were ruling Israel, there was a man in Syria named
Antiochus Epiphanes. Uh, most people see him, he's a type
of the Antichrist, but that was so long ago. That
was before Jesus ever came, um, so you know, you
have these little glimpses Nero was, yeah, many thought Nero
(48:52):
was and Nero behaved especially toward Christians.
But so anyway, you know, you have these things that
happened throughout history that are, are little, um, glimpses glimpses
of where things will ultimately go, but of course the
ultimate thing that we're all waiting for and thankful for
(49:12):
is Jesus coming. You know, my dad lived, my dad
was Chuck Smith, but my dad lived in the constant
expectation that Jesus could come at any moment.
And that's never a bad thing, is it? It's always
a good thing, just like, you know, we used to
say way back in the Jesus people time here, there
or in the air.
(49:34):
That's right. We had lots of those things we did,
we did.
I could, I, you know how right or left right
or left. My dad wrote that one himself.
That's a good one. Get right or get.
All right, all right, well, great answers, Brian and Cheryl.
We really appreciate that. Alison contacting us, uh, from using
(49:56):
the OC app, using the Kwave app and the OC.
Let me correct myself on that. Um, you can listen
to the app anywhere. We're gonna go from Alison to
Bill in Riverside. Bill, welcome to the program.
Hi. Hi. Can you hear me? Yes, go ahead.
OK, go ahead. Um, 1 John 2nd chapter.
(50:18):
Um, in verse 4, it says, if anyone says, I
know him and does not keep his commandment, he's a liar.
And uh
He is a liar and the truth is not in him,
but whoever keeps his word, truly the love of God
is perfect in him.
And also in verse 15, it says, do not love
(50:42):
the world or things in the world. If anyone loves
the world, and the love of the Father is not
in him. For all that is in him, the lust
of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the
pride of life.
is not of the Father but is of the world.
So, I'm wondering, see, I have friends who say that
they are Christians.
(51:02):
And, um, you know, and they're good friends. I love them.
But, um, I see what they do, and I don't
want to be judgmental, but, um, I worry about their
salvation because
Um, you know what it says here.
You know, if you're not, if you say that you're,
(51:23):
you know him, but you, you grieve the spirit all
the time by watching these people, you know, do things,
you know, get drunk and, and like,
Well partners and do all kinds of stuff that I
would never think of doing, and I'm glad you wouldn't.
You be. Right. It, it's just, you know, I, I
(51:46):
tried to follow the Bible word for word, you know, uh,
I do like the, the new King James version. So, um,
you know, I, Yeah, well, Bill, um, yeah, I mean,
we're running short of time so can answer there is that, um.
You know, Paul, Paul says in in writing to Timothy,
he says, let everyone who names the name of Christ
(52:08):
apart from sin.
So, you know, if people are saying, oh yes, I'm
I'm a Christian and I believe in Jesus, but hey,
I'm off to the party and I'm gonna do a little,
you know, partner swapping tonight or whatever, you just say, OK,
now wait a second, we, we have a problem here.
(52:28):
That is not what Christians do, so you're either
Uh, a Christian who's deceived and in sin, and you
need to repent, or maybe you're not a Christian at all,
because Christians aren't going to be behaving that way. If
they are behaving that way, then they're in a a
back sledding state, they need to turn back to the Lord.
You know, I think a really good scripture for this
would be Matthew chapter 7, verse.
(52:50):
who says to me, Lord, Lord, yeah, well, even before
that when he says you're going to know them by
their fruit. And so if you have the fruit of righteousness,
which is, you know, the fruit of, of which the
fruit of the spirit, love, joy, peace, long suffering, but
really that, you know, that hatred of evil, you know, um,
just hating evil, hating what it does to people, hating sin.
(53:12):
And wanting them to be delivered from this that's part
of it that's a good fruit but it says if
if there's bad fruit then the tree's bad it it's
not a good tree a good tree is a tree
that knows Jesus Christ and wants to please Jesus and.
You know, Paul also talked about, oh no, Peter talked
about we've lived enough of our days pleasing ourselves. Now
(53:34):
it's time to please the Lord. And so when you're
living in sin like that, you have no objective of
trying to please the Lord.
And those who love Jesus want to please Jesus. Yeah,
and like, weren't you talking about 2 Peter, you know,
add to your virtue knowledge, for he who does not
have these things has forgotten that they were once purged
(53:56):
from their old sins. So no, we're supposed to grow,
we're supposed to be sanctified. If there's no, if there's no.
Evidence of transformation in one's life, then their profession has
to be if you're not more like Jesus, you know,
and Jesus said, I do always those things that my father. Yeah,
(54:17):
and it doesn't mean that we're going to be perfect,
but it just means that we're, we're moving in a
direction that is toward the Lord, not.
Doing the things that God clearly says don't do that. Well,
speaking of my father, he taught us all the song
love God, hate sin, reckon the old man dead, and,
(54:37):
and that's really it, you know, that's what believers do.
They love God. They hate sin and they reckon that
old nature that does the wife swapping and the other um.
You know, atrocities in fact you know in um First
Thessalonians Paul said that, you know, part of our walk
is to um depart from adultery and he said because
(55:00):
any any type of sexual sin actually defrauds other believers
and we don't do that we love our neighbor as
ourselves we don't exploit others.
That's right. So good call. Thank you, Richard. We're with you, Bill. Bill,
we're with you. Bill from Riverside. Great question. We're on
your side. And sorry, Richard, that we missed you, but yeah,
(55:21):
we'll be back next week. Yeah, call us back next week. Um,
you can call us at 888-564-6173, and you can see
Brian on Sunday.
At Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa, 6:30 in depth Bible teaching
and prayer. If you can't get there in person, you
can join them online at back to Basradio.com/live. So I'm
Michael David and for Brian Perez, for Brian Broderson and
(55:45):
Cheryl Broderson, thank you for joining us and join us
next time on Pastor's Perspective. Good night.
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm Michael David in
for Brian Perez, the number to call is 888-564-6173. Again, 888-564-6173,
and on this Friday's program, we have, as we normally do.
Many times, Brian and Cheryl Broderson, and you can get
(00:37):
more information about them at their website echoesofMercy.com. By the way,
you can come and watch Back to Basics Live with
Pastor Brian at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa. It's an in-depth
Bible teaching and prayer every Sunday night at 6:30, and
uh if you can't get there in person, you can
watch it online at back to Basradio.com/live. That's right. I
(01:02):
got it, yeah.
Yeah, what, what, what's that? What, what did you say?
I said that's good. She did. I, I would say
Michael David did really well. thank you Cheryl. You're welcome. OK,
so I've got an ear out because I've got this
condition and um called mane and so every once in
(01:23):
a I'll flare up and I'll lose my hearing in
my right ear and I'll have these uh spells of
vertigo and Brian.
I think listen to too much rock and roll when
he was young he was part of a rock and
roll band even. And so we are having, we're gonna
have to learn sign language. We are having so much,
you know, um.
It's so many issues trying to communicate at home and
(01:45):
we're turning to each other going, What? What? What? And
if we're not in the same room, forget it, we
don't even know that the other one's talking. And every
time I listen to a podcast with my um
Ear ear pod, you know, it's telling me the decibel
level is too dangerous. You need to turn it down.
Like I can't hear it if I turn it down. Yeah,
(02:07):
that's where we're at. Very needs here we come. Well,
with our Medicare, we actually get a discount now, so
this is good.
So we might both be visiting an audiologist and you
know what people, listeners, aging is just fine, but it
does come with a lot of new accessories.
Yes. Yes, yes, yes, unfortunately. So I wanted to take
(02:31):
a minute as we, uh, jump in here today. A
dear dear friend, uh, whose church that I am actually
scheduled to speak at this Sunday in LA, um, he
came down to see me a couple weeks ago and
we were, you know, having a conversation, and he's, he's
had a heart condition for many, many, many years from
(02:52):
the time he was young, in his twenties, he had
a
Uh, pacemaker put in and, and all of this stuff. And,
and so anyway, his cardiologist down here, so he came
to visit his cardiologist, but he was telling me that
he's been going through a lot of cognitive things and
he just wasn't sure and his, you know, life is
(03:12):
considerably stressful. We talked about how stress can can sometimes
do that and and so forth. So anyway, we were
Uh, you know, we got this big plan. I'm gonna
speak on Sunday and it's gonna be great, and, um,
I get a message from his wife today that he
started having some, some pretty intense, uh, symptoms and, uh,
(03:35):
Wednesday he went in for, um,
A CAT scan and they discovered a tumor uh in
his head that they said is the size of his fist.
So he is waiting right this moment to go into surgery.
And so they're trying, you know, they're trying to run
(03:55):
all the tests. It's difficult because with his heart condition
and with, uh, you know, with the, um, pacemaker and
all that, really, they're not supposed to do an MRI
but his cardiologist, under these circumstances, the cardiologist said, yeah,
you're gonna need to do it because they need to
see everything they can possibly see, you know, before they
go in.
So Lorenzo Smith is his name and he's a dear
(04:17):
dear friend. He was part of our ministry team here
years ago and his wife used to be have a,
a personal only wife she she worked for, yes, I
remember Isabel and Lorenzo, yes, Isabel Lawa Smith. And so anyway,
I would love it to um just have our, our
listeners be, be praying for the Smiths, be praying specifically
(04:39):
for Lorenzo.
And I wanted to do that right now. So Father,
we come to you and, and Lord, we thank you
that nothing escapes you that nothing's too hard for you
and Lord Lorenzo is your servant and uh you love
him and you're you're working in and through him and Lord,
we pray that this uh tumor would be eradicated. We
(05:03):
pray that it would be removed and we pray that
there wouldn't be any.
Um, ongoing effects of it, Lord, you know all the
details about it before the doctors even get in there.
So Lord, we're committing Lorenzo to you and we're asking
for your intervention and Lord, for your healing touch and
we pray for uh Isabel and we pray for Jasline
(05:27):
and we pray for Amelia and we pray that your
presence would engulf them we pray that they would sense
that you're with them.
And Lord, we pray for the church collective and we
ask that you would uh encourage and bless and uh
strengthen your your people as they watch their pastor go
(05:50):
through this season. Uh, may all of them come through
it gloriously with a a fresh.
Just sense of, of your presence and power. So we
commit it all to you now, and we pray these
things and commit them to you in the name of Jesus. Amen. Amen. Yes,
I remember Lorenzo and right, yes, yes, and uh she's
(06:14):
the sister of the guy in the cry, right? The
guy in the cry, yeah, Jean Luc and Eve, yeah,
and they wrote the song Take My Hand about her. Yes, yes,
and yeah, I mean a long, long history. I remember when.
You know, they were from Quebec and um so John
Luke and Eve were part of our church, Cheryl and
(06:34):
I when we pastored at Vista and they and um
they came from um well they came from Quebec, but
they came through Albuquerque and um Pete Nelson, of course,
with them, but all that to say, um, Isabel, she
when she first came down to visit them, she wasn't
a Christian.
And so it was through a process of time that
(06:56):
she came to the Lord. So we saw her, you know,
come to the Lord and the amazing transformation that began
to take place in her life, and yeah, it's all wonderful,
and this is quite startling that we're trusting the Lord. Yeah, wow, wow. Well, yeah,
so everyone keep uh Lorenzo and
Isabella and their family and your prayers. Um, again, if
(07:16):
you want to talk to Brian and Cheryl Broderson about anything, uh,
the Bible, the Christian faith, or how to live the
Christian life, call 888-564-6173. Again, 888-564-6173. We are gonna start
with the Facebook questions, uh, that you can send to
us at facebook.com/pastors perspective, but we do prefer to hear
the sound of your voice, so call us at 888-564-6173.
(07:40):
The first one on Facebook is from Natalie. Natalie says,
I'm confused about the scripture that reads, to be absent
from the body is to be present with the Lord.
When you die as a Christian, but then there's a
scripture that said, the dead in Christ shall rise first.
Is that when the disembodied spirits in heaven are joined
(08:02):
with their raised conruptible bodies? Uh, what would you guys
say incorruptible bodies, yes.
Um, what did you say, Cheryl? I say yes. I
say she, she's got it by Jove, she's it. Do
you want to elaborate on? I wanna hear you elaborate. What? Yes,
I mean, you usually say this has been a quiet day.
(08:24):
I do not. This has been a quiet day, you know,
it's a quiet day. OK. And who's who's asking the question?
Natalie Natalie Natalie, hopefully you're listening and um.
Yeah, you, you nailed it. So, um, the dead in
Christ to rise as a reference to the bodies, because,
of course, when you, when a person dies, they go
(08:46):
in their spirit to be with the Lord and then
um
The body that goes into the grave will one day
be resurrected. So that is definitely a a reference to
the resurrected bodies that will.
Um, be reunited with the spirit, and we don't know
(09:06):
exactly how this works, but, you know, we're just piecing
together what scripture says, and um,
Yeah, that'll take place and and the rapture will take
place um.
Simultaneous to that, so the passage in Thessalonians, uh, 1
Thessalonians 4, the dead in Christ shall rise first, and
(09:30):
we who are alive and remain shall be caught up
together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord
in the air. Mhm. Yep. All right, very good.
Cheryl, did you want to say anything about that? No,
I thought he did really, really, really well.
Thank you, Cheryl. You're welcome.
I told you it's a quiet day.
(09:53):
Great answer to Natalie's question. Pastor Brian on uh at
facebook.com slash Pastor's perspective. Another Facebook question, this one comes
from Jessica, and she says, Do you think Jesus got
sick being fully human? I think of Matthew 8 where
he healed the leper by touching him. Do you think
he would get it too?
(10:13):
Or but also being fully God, was he immune to
any diseases? Uh, what would you guys say toss? Well,
that's interesting and and Sheryl's gonna answer this question, but
I just want to clarify one thing. Jesus was fully
human except he did not have sin. So it wouldn't
have been the fact that he was God that kept
him from sickness if he'd never experienced sickness. It would
(10:35):
have been his sinlessness. So, but what do you say, Cheryl?
I would say exactly what you just said, seriously. I
was like, um.
No, because he did not have sin. He had a
sinless nature and it would be because of that sinless nature,
not because of um being human or being God that
he was kept from it, but it was his sinless
(10:57):
because you know the curse of sin is death and
so because you know he didn't have any sin you
know it's interesting because he said you know um.
The God of this world is judged in John chapter 12,
and he has nothing on me. And again, you know,
it's interesting though because you know, Isaiah 53, of course,
(11:18):
says that he, you know, translations vary, but it, but
it definitely says there that he bore our sicknesses. And
then where's the passage in Matthew where it actually Jesus
is healing people and it says that he's doing so
in fulfillment of bearing burying their sicknesses. And so, um,
You know, that looks like it's saying that he's taking
(11:40):
the sickness upon himself. Uh, so just, you know, what,
what exactly does that mean? In, in his death on
the cross, in, in the atonement, of course, he would have,
like Isaiah 53 says, uh, he bore our griefs, uh,
carried our sorrows, but the, but the word griefs, it can,
(12:02):
is actually more literally sicknesses. He bore our sicknesses.
And so, but where's that passage and is it Matthew
12 or I thought it was Matthew 122, but um
I know at the end of Matthew 9 it talks about,
you know, that all that came to him were healed,
you know, but that was what I was thinking that
it was 12 also but we played this game together.
(12:25):
And what we'll do is Brian will say a scripture
and I'll have to, you know, tell him the chapter
and verse. I'm pretty good at getting to the book
and to the chapter, and I'll give Brian a scription.
He's pretty good. He can get it within two, verses,
you know, so. But on this occasion, and is it,
is it any of the ones on the screen right now?
(12:46):
Any of the ones on the screen? No, it's, it's
definitely in the Gospels. OK, so put in sickness, type,
type sickness.
Uh, isn't the internet. The internet is great. Yeah, Matthew 8:17.
This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah.
He took our illnesses and bore our diseases. Well, Brian,
this is how I see it. We got an even
(13:07):
number right. We knew Matthew.
You knew Matthew and we knew it was an even number. OK. OK, so, um, yeah,
so when he says here, when Matthew says, um, this
was spoken to fulfill what the prophet Isaiah said, of course,
he's quoting from Isaiah 53. So he, and again, you know,
(13:27):
it depends on what.
Version you're reading like the new King James version which
Charlotte and I both pretty much um assimilated into our
bloodstream over the years um he bore our griefs and
carried our sorrows, but I think almost all of the
other translations add sicknesses because that literally is the Hebrew. So,
(13:51):
but what, but what do you, I, I mean.
So, you know, this was to fulfill what was to fulfill.
The context is he's healing people. That's what's happening. So I,
I mean, I've always wondered about that like, so what
does that mean at the moment? Well, he carried, he
carried our sins and sorrows, you know, all the way
to Calvary, but that on that cross he was dealing
(14:13):
with the sickness that's where the payment for all the
healings took place was at Calvary.
So it doesn't mean that their sicknesses were transferred onto
him bodily at the at the moment. Yeah, but they
were definitely transferred to the cross and covered them. But
he was assuming that he might die for them to
set them free, which is
(14:35):
The nominal
Amen. Amen. Great answers to Jessica's question on Facebook. Uh,
before we go to the calls at 888-564-6173, we'll do
one more Facebook question. This comes from Anthony and Rancho Cucamonga,
and it's about Isaiah chapter 45 verse 3. Can you explain?
what is meant by Jesus saying, I will give thee
(14:59):
the treasures of darkness. Are these evil treasures that he
is talking about? No, it's the treasury that we get
in those dark places when we don't know what we're
doing or going, and it also has to do with, um,
when you're when you're in places that are hard and
the suffering.
(15:19):
There is a reward at the end of it. I
think that I, I think if you couple this with
maybe Psalm 66, where it says he laid affliction on
their backs, but he brought them out to rich fulfillment.
And there is something, you know, it's so funny because
I was trying to find that scripture today for my devotions.
I was like, I want to find it. But yeah,
(15:40):
the context is really not that. I wanted it to
be because it's a message to Cyrus.
Yeah. And so, yeah, he'll give Cyrus. So the Lord
says this to Cyrus, his anointed, whose right hand I
have grasp to subdue nations before him. Now, let's just
remember Cyrus is the one who conquers Babylon, OK? And so, um,
(16:04):
God says, you know, uh, he's gonna to subdue nations, uh,
disarm kings, God's gonna do this, open doors before him.
Uh, even the city gates will not be shut. He
was the one that that broke into Babylon. Uh, and
I will go before you and level the uneven places.
I will shatter the bronze doors and cut the iron
(16:24):
bars in two.
I will give you the treasures of darkness and the
riches of secret places. So the treasures of darkness here
would be the hidden treasures. So he's, he's telling him, yeah,
basically of Babylon, yes, I'm gonna give you everything in Babylon.
I am corrected. So, so I mean, you know, you could.
Uh, there's other passages that would
(16:48):
Lend to what Cheryl was saying, the kind of application
of it. Cheryl wants it to say.
But this is not one of
So, but you could say, you know, this, but this
does remind us of, there are other places where God
gives us hidden treasures, you know, we could, we could
do something like that with it, but the, but the
literal interpretation.
(17:12):
Well, you know, we give each other a break, but
you know it's so funny because I was looking for
that today, not realizing that was in the context of Cyrus,
so I'm so glad you brought out the context because
you know I'm like, oh wait, treasures of darkness, but
I think that maybe what I'm thinking more in the
context is like where uh Paul talks about in Philippians,
the fellowship of his sufferings that there is and and
(17:34):
then again Psalm 66 where you know he lays.
Um, he, he laid, uh, affliction on our back, but
he brought us out to rich fulfillment, and you know,
David said, well, we think it was David who wrote
Psalm 119, but he said it was good that I
was afflicted that I might draw near to you and
I might learn your learn your ways, yeah commands, yeah.
(17:58):
Now Anthony from Rancho Cucamonga said Jesus was saying this.
Was Jesus saying this? No, this is the Lord is
saying this uh through Isaiah. I mean, in some ways
it's Jesus because Jesus and God are the same, but
you know, if that was it would be like more
of a interesting thing about this particular passage historically is
(18:19):
that the the the tradition, Jewish tradition is that when
Cyrus came into
Um, Babylon, and this is, you know, this is when
the Jews were ultimately liberated from their 70 years of captivity. Um, they,
they say that that the Jewish leaders took the scroll
(18:42):
of Isaiah to Cyrus and showed him his name, that
God had.
Um, you know, predicted that God had told in advance
100 years before the event that just happened. That would
be crazy. That would be absolutely crazy to see your
name in this ancient book and go, wow, there is a.
(19:03):
And this, and you know, this whole passage right here,
these like 3 chapters, so much of it that God
is speaking to Cyrus. And you know what else would
move this, this, this king.
To let the Jews go free into their own homeland
and allow them to build a temple because it was
pretty much a policy against, you know, people were allowed
to repopulate, but to build a temple back to their
(19:25):
god usually was a sign of insurrection as you will
see when you read um Ezra and Nehemiah that especially
in Ezra, that the, you know, symbolic, I mean, these
others who were uh writing.
To, uh, back to Persia saying, you know, you don't
want to let these Jews build their temple. You don't
(19:45):
want them to finish this because they have a history
of rebellion and once this temple is up and running,
you know, they're going to rebel against you, they're gonna,
you know, become a nation again and rally around this.
And so you see that for Cyrus to even allow
this is just, um, it had to be something so moving. Yeah, and,
and remember when he goes back when the when the
(20:07):
Jews go back to Judah, he uh.
He actually writes a proclamation, you know, that, and he
says the God of heaven has called me to build
him a temple, rebuild.
All right, so that's a lot of unexpected conversation about
(20:27):
Cyrus today. Who knew? I know. Well, it was, it
started out. I was trying to rectify my really it's OK. Well, it's,
it's my mission. We see that it's good that you've
been deferring to me today, I guess you know I
told you it's a quiet day.
Great answers from Brian and Cheryl to Anthony from Rancho
Cucamonga who contacted us on Facebook.com/pastors perspective, but now we're
(20:50):
gonna go to the phone lines at 888-564-6173 and talk
to Pete and San Pedro. Pete, welcome to the program.
Yes, thank you for taking my call. And my question is,
I guess my first question is, does it say in
Romans 11 that all Israel will be saved because I,
(21:12):
I was debating with my relative about that, and my
answer was no, that only a remnant, but I can't,
I can't even find it in Romans 11 now where
it says that. So that's my first question, but I
was listening.
Pastor Chuck on the word for today, where he was
saying that actually where Paul says all of Israel is
(21:33):
not all of Israel. There's spiritual Israel, the ones who believe,
and then there's just the ones that are actually from Israel.
So I didn't catch what scripture he was teaching from.
And so it was kind of a double, or just
it all pertains to the same thing. I just was
wondering your
Um, what you think about it and also that if
(21:55):
you know the scripture pastor Chuck. Yeah, it's, it's, uh,
Romans 11:26 is the is the passage that you're thinking of. No,
that's the one that all Israel will be saved, will
be saved. Yeah. So, so you have to remember that
Romans 11 is talking about the future restoration of Israel.
So when Jesus comes,
(22:17):
And, um, you know, like Zachariah says, they will look
upon him whom they pierced, they will mourn for him
as one mourns for an only son. Uh, in that day, uh,
a fountain will be opened in Jerusalem, uh, the spirit
of grace and supplication will be poured upon them and
a and a fountain for cleansing. And so, yes, all Israel,
(22:39):
every living Jew.
Uh, at that time will be saved, and that is
what that is what Paul is talking about. So, you know,
Romans 9 through 11 is, is the explanation for, uh,
you know, God having set aside the nation, and there's
a remnant from the nation that Paul is a part of,
(23:02):
but then the majority of the nation has been um
set aside until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled.
And that's what uh that's where it all kind of
climaxes in the 11th chapter. And then he was asking
about the scripture that
Not all Israel. Yeah, and, and there there are passages,
you know, where Paul is is making that statement, like
(23:24):
in Romans chapter 2, you know, where he says, uh,
for example, he says, uh, you know, he is not
a Jew who has won outwardly, but he is a
Jew who has won inwardly. Circumcision is not outward in
the flesh, but it, but it's of the heart. And then, um,
in Galatians and again in Romans, Paul will say that.
So he's talking about at the moment, um,
(23:47):
He's talking about those Jews who are, they're Jews ethnically,
but they're because they've rejected the Messiah, they're not really
in relation to God.
And you know, because nobody can come into a relationship
with God unless they come through Jesus. So. And in Galatians, um,
(24:07):
Paul makes a differentiation between Ishmael and Isaac and says,
you know, both are sons biologically of Abraham, but one
is according to the flesh what Abraham could do.
And the other one through Sarah is through the promise
and he relates that to Israel at at, you know,
(24:31):
even now that those who are of the promise, which is,
you know, Jesus Christ the Messiah, these are the true
Israel and those who don't know Jesus are just biological
but not spiritual. And so that's the difference that he's
making there so.
Um, you know, it's interesting because Brandon and I were
(24:51):
talking about the same subject today cause I happened to
be in Daniel, um, in my, um, personal Bible studies,
and we're talking about Daniel chapter 7 and about, um,
when Jesus is the, the, um.
When Jesus takes the authority and the power and the
glory straight from the Father, he's he alone is able
(25:12):
to approach this fiery throne of God and and receive
all of that so that he can rule and reign,
but it was talking in that chapter about the war
on the saints, and we're talking about how the saints
in the context of Daniel are not talking about Christians,
but are talking about the nation of Israel.
(25:34):
And how for 3.5 years they'll be oppressed by the
anti-Christ until the Lord returns and slays him with the
breath of his mouth. I mean, we were getting kind
of excited about that one and we were talking about
how easily God puts down the forces of evil when
he's coming. Yeah, we're talking about how you think of how,
how almost impossible sometimes it is, you know, you think
(25:58):
of different periods in history, you know, you think of
like during the um
You know, like during during slavery or or the Jim
Crow era, for example, where Satan has such a grip
in the culture that these people cannot be you can't
break that evil. It's just, it just, it's unbreakable, or
you think about the Nazis, and you think about how
(26:20):
they were able to do what they did and and
how could it even be stopped. And then we're talking
about Jesus, how he will slay them with the breath
of his lips. He will speak a word.
And we were even talking about Hamas, you know, how
Hamas has dug its claws in and you know, they're
like prying one.
You know, one talent one talent at a time off,
(26:43):
but Jesus just says, Stop it, you're done. It's over,
you know, he slays them with the breath of his lips.
But we were also talking to that the tribulation has
to do with the humbling of Israel and get it
they're going to be broken according to Daniel chapter 12,
that their pride will be broken.
(27:05):
And at that point when Jesus reveals himself as the,
you know, one and only Son of God and they
wait for him as of an only begotten Son, an
only son. When the power of the holy people is
completely shattered, then Jesus will come.
(27:25):
Wow. Another long answer to a short question. Thorough answer,
thorough answer. Did that help you, Pete? You both, but
are you still there? Yes, I'm still here. Go ahead. OK, great.
I just wanted to, uh, add, so in other words, uh,
Gentile or Jewish, you still have to believe in Jesus
to be yes, no, no salvation from Jesus. Yeah, Jesus
(27:48):
said if you
If you do not honor me, you do not honor
the Father that sent me, and he said, if you
hate me, you hate the father that sent me. And
so he makes it very clear that, you know, he said,
I am the way, the truth in life. There is no, uh,
way to the Father except through me. I think John
chapter 8, you know, where Jesus is speaking to the,
(28:09):
to the leaders of the nation, he says, unless you
believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.
That's and he's talking to Jews.
Amen. Yes, so, so Pete, I did wanna ask you,
do you say San Pedro or San Pedro?
San Pedro, San Pedro. I'm gonna try to say it
like that. San Pedro from now on. Well, is that
(28:30):
the proper way to say it, or is that just
the way Pete says it? No, it is. He's right, yeah, OK,
like the name Pedro, Pedro, right, Pedro Garcia, Saint Peter.
That's what it is, yes, there you go.
I was just there a couple of weeks ago and
I hadn't been there in ages, so, uh, Pete, it's,
it's Saint Pete Pete from Saint Pete, my name is
(28:56):
not Peter. I wish it was, it's actually a French name, Pittan,
is that right? What does that mean in French though?
It's, um, well, my dad was named Patan and he
always went by Pete. Otherwise I'd say Peter. Well maybe
that maybe that's French for Peter. Yeah, it's close enough
(29:16):
for us.
Well thank you Pete or Patan from San Pedro calling
us at 888-564-6173. We're gonna take more of your calls
on the second half of the program with Brian and
Cheryl Broderson, so call us now 888-564-6173 if you'd like
to get on the air and talk to Brian and Cheryl.
That's the number to call 888-564-6173 888-564-6173. We'll see you
(29:43):
in just a few minutes on the second half of
Pastor's Perspective.
(30:16):
Welcome back to the second half of Pastor's Perspective. I'm
Michael David in for Brian Perez. I'm joined by Brian
and Cheryl Bruderson. The number to call is 888-564-6173. Again, 888-564-6173.
We'll go right back to the phones and talk to
Bill from Ontario. Bill, welcome to the program.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Hi, how are you, are you folks doing? Hey, um,
so I'm calling because someone told me, just, I think
it was just yesterday, my friend told me, and then
another friend told me some time ago, then another my
nephew told me back in Memphis when I was visiting
several months ago, but they said that I
Use Christian too much, you know, like, why do you
(30:58):
have to use the word Christian and I said, what
do you mean?
You know, one example is like we have this text
chain with a Christians on it, and whenever I text
something I just say I say good afternoon Christians or
I'll say something like a certain conversation it may I
say that, well I'm a Christian, so I don't know
(31:19):
about that or I'm or you know, and I, you know,
I 3 times I've been told that that I can
remember distinctively and I'm just wondering.
Can you, can you use the Christian word too much
or something? What what what is?
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Not that I know of, but you know, it's interesting
because I was telling Brian, I'm right now reading through
um an archaeological Bible. So it, it has like these
articles of uh that will deal with findings by obviously
archaeologists and how it relates to the Bible passage I'm reading.
And I was in Acts and it was in Antioch
(31:54):
and it was talking about how
Uh, believers in Jesus were first called Christians in Antioch,
and actually the word Christian was at first considered derisive
because they were calling them Christ slaves, like they're slaves
of Christ, so it's supposed to be really derisive.
But the Christians are like, wow, slaves of Jesus, yeah,
(32:16):
we're into that yeah we'll claim it. And so they
begin to call themselves Christians, you know, some people will say,
oh they're it's Christ likeness, but it's not the actual
meaning was slaves of Christ and these people took it
when I was growing up in the Jesus people movement,
the papers derisively called us Jesus people and it was
(32:37):
meant to be derisive. In fact, I had kids.
Say it to me at a public school and it
was meant to be derisive and pretty soon it became
the greatest compliment like thank you Jesus freak, yeah, that
was yeah that was a derogatory one too, but you know,
a lot of people loved it, you know I called
people that when I was, did you know did you
(32:57):
know accosted by hippies on the Huntington Beach. Did you know? OK, well,
this is going to be a discussion obviously over dinner.
How did I marry you? No, I'm just kidding. 45
years later. What? You did? What? Oh, you knew that. No,
I didn't. Honestly, that one I didn't know. I knew
about the cantaloupe that hit you in the head, but
I did not know about that. No wonder you got
(33:20):
hit in the head with the cantaloupe.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
I like what you said. I like what you said
about slaves of, of, of Christ.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yes,
Speaker 2 (33:32):
I like that. I think that really.
Really, really, I think that really explains a lot slaves
of Christ.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Christianos is the is one
Speaker 2 (33:41):
more
Speaker 1 (33:41):
question,
Speaker 2 (33:42):
one more question. My, my friend, the one I was
talking to yesterday who said yesterday that I use Christian
too much, uh, she, and I told, I told her, uh, that,
you know, if you, if you believe in the 10 Commandments, well, uh, uh, uh,
my friend, um, I grew up with, he's a preacher
back in Memphis, and I, we were talking and he said,
We were talking about Christians and, and God, and he said, well,
(34:05):
As long as I, I, I follow the 10 Commandments,
so I think I'm all right. So I told my,
my friend, I said, if you follow the 10 Commandments,
you'll get to heaven. And she said, No, I don't
show me in the Bible where it says you, if
you follow the 10 Commandments, you'll go to heaven.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
OK, wait, let Pastor Brian answer that one. Go ahead. Yeah, well,
she's right, you know, because the problem is you can't
follow the 10 Commandments. That's the, that, that's the, um,
kind of catch 22, you know, for us that we.
Here's this law, um, that sets the standard that none
of us can live up to. And the, the letter
(34:44):
to the Galatians in the New Testament, Paul really makes
this clear. He said, if there had been a law
by which we could be saved, Christ didn't need to
go to the cross. But because there was no law
that could save us, and he's talking very specifically even
about God's law.
Um, that's why Jesus had to die. So actually Paul
(35:07):
tells us that the law was given in order to
point out to us what our sins are and to
convince us that we need another way to be saved
and to push us to Jesus. That that's what it does. So, um, yeah,
so you, so your friend friend is right on that, um.
(35:29):
You know, the 10 Commandments are the moral law, and
we end up once we're believers and the Holy Spirit
dwells in us, we end up living according to those laws,
but it's not on the basis of those 10 Commandments
that were saved. We're saved by putting faith in Jesus
that he died to do for us what we could
(35:51):
never do and not save ourselves by keeping laws or rules.
Great answer, great answer, um.
Bill, does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Yeah.
Yes, but, yes, but I told her you you, yeah,
if you're a believer, you have to be a believer. Yeah,
if you to follow the 10, you got to be
a believer first, you know,
Speaker 1 (36:12):
if
Speaker 2 (36:12):
you, if you would agree you're,
Speaker 1 (36:14):
yeah, yeah, yeah, but there are some who are just,
you know, morally upright and they do that, but they
don't think they need Jesus and I've met quite a
few of those who said, you know what, I'm OK.
I follow the 0 Commandments and I mean think about
how many Orthodox Jews think they're OK because they're following
the commands of God.
And you know, trying to, they're, you know, nobody actually
(36:37):
can do it, but they think they're all right because
they're following the 10 Commandments, but they don't have the Messiah.
They're not all right so I think that's a little
bit of a tricky question. You might have to concede
to her. You might, you just might. But you, but
you got it right in that, yeah. Jesus, Jesus precedes everything.
So once you come to Jesus, but even once you
(36:59):
come to Jesus, you're not keeping yourself.
Saved by keeping the 10 Commandments. You know, the 10
Commandments are in the Old Testament. So when we come
to Jesus, we don't need to go back to the
Old Testament to figure out how to live. Um, those
commandments are kind of, you know, they're strewn throughout the
teaching of the New Testament, most of them. And so we,
(37:22):
as we are living in obedience to God's word and
the spirit, we end up doing what the commands.
Called us to do and we do it by the
grace of God and by the spirit of God rather
than by trying by outward observances, which is the difference, yeah,
and we do it out of love versus fear, right?
(37:42):
All right, well, Bill from Ontario, thank you for calling
us here on Pastor's Perspective. We're gonna go from Ontario
to Himmet and talk to Taboo. Taboo, did I say
your name right?
Yeah, you said my name right. OK. All right. Welcome
to the program. How can we help you?
Well, thank you. Uh, first of all, I wanna say, uh,
I love what you guys are doing and, uh, Pastor
(38:04):
Broadus and you, you baptized me at, uh, Cory Chapel,
Costa Mesa about 5 years ago. Oh, that's great. I
am so glad, uh, that you're calling and get, get
to know that. Yeah.
How you doing? I still have that. I'm doing great.
I still have that picture of that day when you,
you dunked me in the water and pulled me back out.
(38:24):
I still remember that day like it was yesterday. Oh,
so cool. That's awesome. Love it.
All right, but, uh, uh, so my question is, is
about Judas. Yes, OK, so, uh, I've been doing research
on the whole trial of Jesus and the people involved
in it. So when I get to Judas, he just
confuses me. So, OK, so you walk with the Lord
for 3 years. OK, so, uh, and I know eventually
(38:47):
in the end Judas, he was lost. So the moment
he came in, the moment he came into Jesus's life,
the last 3 years, was he lost completely?
Even, even through all the teachings, everything that he saw
Jesus do perform through everything like there wasn't at one
point where he was like, you know what, uh, I,
(39:08):
I want this, but he just went the wrong way
about it like.
But my question is, like, was he, was, was there
any point in his walk with Jesus? Was he saved
at any point and then lost it, or was he
just completely lost? Yeah, good, good question. And I think
the answer is Jesus tells us the answer. He says, I've,
he's talking to the, you know, the apostles, and he says, uh,
(39:32):
have I not chosen the 12 of you, and yet
one of you is a devil.
And of course he's referring to Judas there. So, so what,
what I think we have to conclude by looking at
all the references to Judas is that even though he
was outwardly following Jesus, he never was a true believer.
(39:53):
So he was like, uh, you know, he was religious, obviously,
he was going through the motions, but he had uh
a different idea.
And it probably did not at all like the idea
of the atonement that Jesus was actually gonna die on
a cross, that was not his vision of the Messiah.
And so he was much like, you know, the people
(40:15):
that he betrayed Jesus to. So don't you think too
that you can kind of find the parallel to this
in Matthew chapter 13 when Jesus talks about the gospel
seed and what you see is that on one soil
it goes and it sprouts up quickly, but because it
has no root it withers and dies and Judas I'm
sure was impressed by Jesus in the beginning when Jesus
(40:38):
is healing.
Um, he probably was even impressed by his sermons, but
when he realized that Jesus was not going to take
him the way he wanted to go and obviously we're
told by John that Judas was a thief and he
used to steal from the money, so obviously we've got
a greed issue there.
And we've got probably someone who's very ambitious and you know,
(40:59):
thinks this is the way to get me and I,
I think that there's and and what's in it when
Mary broke the alabaster box, wasn't Judas is the one
who led the instigator of the.
Yeah, indignation, but I think too that what you have
even today, you've got people who will follow until they
realize that Jesus is not going to give them what
(41:20):
they want. He's going to give to others what he
wants because that's really better but I've known a lot
of people that said, well.
You know, I asked for this and he didn't do
it so I'm, I'm out of here and you know
a lot of people are deconstructing their faith today because
Jesus did not give them what they wanted and when
they realized that the road, you know, Jesus, I think
(41:41):
about um John chapter 8 when a lot of people
stopped following Jesus because he said unless you, you know,
eat my flesh and drink my blood, you can have
no part of me and they're like, you know this
is getting too weird we're out of here.
And he turned to Peter and he said, you know,
do you wanna, do you wanna leave me too? And
Peter said, You alone have the words of life, where
(42:01):
else would we go? So, um, what we see there
is that there were many followers of Jesus even during Jesus' lifetime,
but there weren't many disciples, and Judas at the end
proved to be a follower rather than a true disciple.
All right, great answers. Thank you, taboo, calling us from Hemet.
(42:22):
On 888-564-6173. We're gonna go from Hemet to Allison, who's
listening on the Kwave app. Allison, welcome to the program.
Hello, um, thanks for taking my call. I was just
curious what your perspective is on this whole Israel peace
(42:43):
ceasefire thing, um, yesterday that took place and all the
celebrations with the hostages being returned and
Um, the possible war that's gonna, you know, come to
a pause or even come to a halt, hopefully. But
where does it fall in line in regards to in
(43:06):
times I know that. Isn't Israel supposed to have a
period of peace? I don't think we're there yet because
the period of peace that we're talking about is when
the anti-Christ comes and he's going to come like a
Um, liver like a savior, like a great um negotiator.
So I think right now we are just in that
(43:28):
turmoil that precedes the end times when you hear about
wars and rumors of wars, and I think that, you know, it's,
it's a peace accord. I'm personally, I'm very excited because
we know so many Christians who live in Gaza. We
have um people um.
That we that live in California who have relatives in
(43:50):
Gaza who are born again Christians and they have had
to suffer so much, you know, from all of this unrest.
So we are so thankful for the peace accord. How
long it will last, I don't know, but at least
it gives a chance for the gospel to go back
into Gaza.
Uh, gives a chance uh to share and so but I,
(44:11):
I believe, you know, we are in personally I believe
we're in the last days and we're just going to
have upheaval after upheaval and you know I'm thankful for every,
every peace accord I'm thankful for every.
Um, moment of peace because you know we're told by
Paul that we are to pray for our governments that
(44:33):
we might live a peaceable life and so I think
that peace gives an opportunity for the gospel and so
I think that's where it would fall in right now.
And we're, like you said, Allison, we're, we're praying, you know, um,
somebody was asking me the other day about the whole
ceasefire and, and you know the hostages being returned and
(44:55):
all of that and I said, well, you know, they're
making a deal with the devil and you can never
trust the devil so let's just keep praying that this
goes through and that I just read today that they're
talking now about Sunday being the day when the when
the hostages would be returned.
So, my goodness, you know, I just feel like if
(45:16):
we could just get across that line, that would be
huge right there. So, you know, whether this will, um,
Who, who knows whether it will settle it, it won't,
you know, President Trump, I mean, you know, God bless him,
but he, you know, he talks about ending the 3000
year war and then bringing in everlasting peace. So, you know,
(45:38):
he's using language that just really is not appropriate for him.
He is not going to bring in everlasting peace. Uh,
there will continue to be skirmishes and conflicts and these
kinds of things because this is, this is what
Um, is really just bound to be the case until
(46:00):
Jesus comes and the people of Israel embrace the Messiah. So,
you know, we have this long period of time, of course,
we had, you know, a couple 1000 years almost of, of,
of no Jewish control over the land that God gave
to them.
And then we've come, we've been living now in a
(46:20):
time where they have had control once again, but it's
still the same time period where they're not in the
covenant with God. So, I think God is sovereignly working,
he's moved them back into the land. But when people say, well,
you know, what prophecies specifically are being fulfilled, I don't
think there's anyone you can point to and say, oh,
this is being fulfilled here, that's being fulfilled there, because
(46:42):
we're not quite there yet, uh, but we are in
a place where that
It's like the, you know, in some senses it's like
the stage is still being set for, for the final
things for the final act, yeah. Didn't my dad write
a book called The Final Act, which, which actually will
outline a lot of this too. Is that helpful, Alison? Uh, Alison,
(47:05):
let me bring you back on. Was that helpful?
Yes, and it's the final act, the book that Chuck
Smith wrote is at about the end time. Yeah, it's
one of them. He wrote 2 or 3 or 4
different ones, a couple of movies. That was one of them, yeah,
of the fig tree, yeah.
(47:25):
And you can get that uh uh go ahead.
At the chapel store?
Should they should have it yeah they should they better
they better have it.
And if the chapel store doesn't have it, you can
get it on Amazon.com. The final act some of some
of the stuff in the book, just, just a forewarning, forewarning,
you know, it'll be dated some of it and there
(47:45):
were ideas back then that, you know, seemed at the
time like, oh, this is exactly where it's headed and
and it didn't head there. But the general picture, like
Cheryl said earlier, you know, the general picture is that
and this is the really difficult part, uh, especially for Jews, um,
that there is an uh a world ruler that's going
to come.
(48:07):
That's going to deceive them and they are going to
think that he is actually the savior when in reality
he's not. So all of the like in times prophecy
stuff really revolves around that period. So like I said,
the things that we see happening now, we can see
a sort of preparation or foreshadows, uh, all throughout history
(48:28):
there have been.
Um, like way back in the period when the Greeks
were ruling Israel, there was a man in Syria named
Antiochus Epiphanes. Uh, most people see him, he's a type
of the Antichrist, but that was so long ago. That
was before Jesus ever came, um, so you know, you
have these little glimpses Nero was, yeah, many thought Nero
(48:52):
was and Nero behaved especially toward Christians.
But so anyway, you know, you have these things that
happened throughout history that are, are little, um, glimpses glimpses
of where things will ultimately go, but of course the
ultimate thing that we're all waiting for and thankful for
(49:12):
is Jesus coming. You know, my dad lived, my dad
was Chuck Smith, but my dad lived in the constant
expectation that Jesus could come at any moment.
And that's never a bad thing, is it? It's always
a good thing, just like, you know, we used to
say way back in the Jesus people time here, there
or in the air.
(49:34):
That's right. We had lots of those things we did,
we did.
I could, I, you know how right or left right
or left. My dad wrote that one himself.
That's a good one. Get right or get.
All right, all right, well, great answers, Brian and Cheryl.
We really appreciate that. Alison contacting us, uh, from using
(49:56):
the OC app, using the Kwave app and the OC.
Let me correct myself on that. Um, you can listen
to the app anywhere. We're gonna go from Alison to
Bill in Riverside. Bill, welcome to the program.
Hi. Hi. Can you hear me? Yes, go ahead.
OK, go ahead. Um, 1 John 2nd chapter.
(50:18):
Um, in verse 4, it says, if anyone says, I
know him and does not keep his commandment, he's a liar.
And uh
He is a liar and the truth is not in him,
but whoever keeps his word, truly the love of God
is perfect in him.
And also in verse 15, it says, do not love
(50:42):
the world or things in the world. If anyone loves
the world, and the love of the Father is not
in him. For all that is in him, the lust
of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the
pride of life.
is not of the Father but is of the world.
So, I'm wondering, see, I have friends who say that
they are Christians.
(51:02):
And, um, you know, and they're good friends. I love them.
But, um, I see what they do, and I don't
want to be judgmental, but, um, I worry about their
salvation because
Um, you know what it says here.
You know, if you're not, if you say that you're,
(51:23):
you know him, but you, you grieve the spirit all
the time by watching these people, you know, do things,
you know, get drunk and, and like,
Well partners and do all kinds of stuff that I
would never think of doing, and I'm glad you wouldn't.
You be. Right. It, it's just, you know, I, I
(51:46):
tried to follow the Bible word for word, you know, uh,
I do like the, the new King James version. So, um,
you know, I, Yeah, well, Bill, um, yeah, I mean,
we're running short of time so can answer there is that, um.
You know, Paul, Paul says in in writing to Timothy,
he says, let everyone who names the name of Christ
(52:08):
apart from sin.
So, you know, if people are saying, oh yes, I'm
I'm a Christian and I believe in Jesus, but hey,
I'm off to the party and I'm gonna do a little,
you know, partner swapping tonight or whatever, you just say, OK,
now wait a second, we, we have a problem here.
(52:28):
That is not what Christians do, so you're either
Uh, a Christian who's deceived and in sin, and you
need to repent, or maybe you're not a Christian at all,
because Christians aren't going to be behaving that way. If
they are behaving that way, then they're in a a
back sledding state, they need to turn back to the Lord.
You know, I think a really good scripture for this
would be Matthew chapter 7, verse.
(52:50):
who says to me, Lord, Lord, yeah, well, even before
that when he says you're going to know them by
their fruit. And so if you have the fruit of righteousness,
which is, you know, the fruit of, of which the
fruit of the spirit, love, joy, peace, long suffering, but
really that, you know, that hatred of evil, you know, um,
just hating evil, hating what it does to people, hating sin.
(53:12):
And wanting them to be delivered from this that's part
of it that's a good fruit but it says if
if there's bad fruit then the tree's bad it it's
not a good tree a good tree is a tree
that knows Jesus Christ and wants to please Jesus and.
You know, Paul also talked about, oh no, Peter talked
about we've lived enough of our days pleasing ourselves. Now
(53:34):
it's time to please the Lord. And so when you're
living in sin like that, you have no objective of
trying to please the Lord.
And those who love Jesus want to please Jesus. Yeah,
and like, weren't you talking about 2 Peter, you know,
add to your virtue knowledge, for he who does not
have these things has forgotten that they were once purged
(53:56):
from their old sins. So no, we're supposed to grow,
we're supposed to be sanctified. If there's no, if there's no.
Evidence of transformation in one's life, then their profession has
to be if you're not more like Jesus, you know,
and Jesus said, I do always those things that my father. Yeah,
(54:17):
and it doesn't mean that we're going to be perfect,
but it just means that we're, we're moving in a
direction that is toward the Lord, not.
Doing the things that God clearly says don't do that. Well,
speaking of my father, he taught us all the song
love God, hate sin, reckon the old man dead, and,
(54:37):
and that's really it, you know, that's what believers do.
They love God. They hate sin and they reckon that
old nature that does the wife swapping and the other um.
You know, atrocities in fact you know in um First
Thessalonians Paul said that, you know, part of our walk
is to um depart from adultery and he said because
(55:00):
any any type of sexual sin actually defrauds other believers
and we don't do that we love our neighbor as
ourselves we don't exploit others.
That's right. So good call. Thank you, Richard. We're with you, Bill. Bill,
we're with you. Bill from Riverside. Great question. We're on
your side. And sorry, Richard, that we missed you, but yeah,
(55:21):
we'll be back next week. Yeah, call us back next week. Um,
you can call us at 888-564-6173, and you can see
Brian on Sunday.
At Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa, 6:30 in depth Bible teaching
and prayer. If you can't get there in person, you
can join them online at back to Basradio.com/live. So I'm
Michael David and for Brian Perez, for Brian Broderson and
(55:45):
Cheryl Broderson, thank you for joining us and join us
next time on Pastor's Perspective. Good night.
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