Pastors' Perspective-10/15/25

Pastors' Perspective is a one-hour call-in program where listeners can call in and get answers to questions about the Bible, Christianity, family, and life. The program is live Monday through Friday from 3:00 PM - 4:00 PM Pacific. You can call 888-564-6173 to ask your questions.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez,
and this is the time of day when we open
up the phone lines here at the radio station so
that you can call in.
And ask questions about the Bible, the Christian faith, maybe
about a message that you heard earlier today or last
night on the radio, you can call in and maybe
ask deeper questions, and maybe you heard something that, wow,

(00:41):
I had never heard that before. I had never heard
it from that angle before. Can someone please explain this
to me? Well, that's why we're here. 888-564-61.
73 is the number to call. My name is Brian Perez,
in case I didn't say that. If I did say it, well,
now you've heard it again. Brian Broderson is here. He's
one of the pastors that's gonna be answering your questions

(01:02):
today from echoes of Mercy.com. How's echoesofmercy.com doing, Pastor Brian?
EchoesofMercy.com is just about to, so that's a website, and
it is just about to be completed and launched. So
we have sort of a
Um, soft launch or soft launch has been up for

(01:23):
a bit, yeah, and, um, I think it looks pretty
good like this. Yeah, I mean, it's just there's more,
more to it. So yeah, I think by, um, maybe
the end of the week it'll be up in all
of its glory and, um, yeah, so it is kind
of the umbrella ministry for my dear wife and I
and um.

(01:45):
You know, you find out information about what we're doing
as far as the ministry goes with teaching and radio
and podcast and speaking engagements and um if you wanna
have us come and speak or something, then there's um
What's the word I'm looking for? Contact form, you can,

(02:06):
you can fill it out, you know, and yeah, all that,
all that sort of stuff. So yeah, I mean, you know,
so far so good, but we're just kind of still
in the, we're kind of in the crawling stage and
hoping to start toddling along here quick. All right, so
get all the details at echoesoMercy.com. You can sign up
for the newsletter as well, and that way you can

(02:27):
always keep up to date with um.
Everything that Brian and Cheryl are going through their latest podcasts,
including Pastor Brian's Back to Basics radio program that you
hear right here on Kwave 3 times a day, but, uh,
lots of information there at echoesofmercy.com.
So what are you up to? What am I up to?

(02:48):
You're all, you're all free and clear. You did your
civic duty, talked about that. Yeah, yeah, I'm done. You're done. And, uh, yeah,
for another year, uh, should not get any postcards or
anything in the mail. Yes, but you know, sometimes I
found in my own experience that they really liked me,
so they just sent me those things every few months.

(03:09):
I was like, wait, I didn't I do this already,
you know.
So there's a possibility that I might get another one.
I don't think they liked me though, because, well, I
can explain why. Well, after what you did, I, I
did tell, yeah, I'll leave it at that. But that
I won't get into it. Yeah, yeah, it's just your
way of it's just me being me, yeah, it's just,

(03:29):
you know, which trying to get out has gotten me
in trouble several times, as you know, but uh anyway,
I wasn't trying to get out really. I, I was,
I was ready to do it for once in my life.
I've always
Put up the, uh, you know, the the the hardship
things and everything and just said I can't do this,
I can't do this and, um, but yeah, this year,
you know, found out that here we got 10 days

(03:51):
of so I couldn't use that as an excuse anymore
and it was just like, OK, let's just do it, right?
And then, but then there was that that fateful moment
when you were.
You just could not not say what you said.
What you said got you, uh, possibly kindly disinvited. Yes, yes, yes.

(04:14):
But see, if I hadn't done that, then to this day,
I would have still been wondering what would have happened
if I had said that. That would have just been
so funny to say that, and I would have just
been wondering and so I did it, got it out
of the way, and it was great. And now I
know the repercussions. This is wonderful. I think that's gonna
show up on like, um, I've been monitoring the news
sites to see if maybe somebody will, yeah, you know.

(04:37):
Disruptive juror whatever and I just, it hasn't come up
yet anyway, but I wasn't being disruptive in my opinion. Anyway, hey,
two people, just these guys we're security into the studio
just just burst our way into the studio. You made it.
How were my directions? Were they? They're great. They're great.
Thank you. We had to be here because I had
to see you and your fabulousness, you too, and Brian.

(04:57):
Perez, well, good to you, my brother. Did you guys
do introductions already? Yes, well, I introduced myself and Brian,
but wasn't sure if you guys were coming in. But
I know we are, we are one minute after the
show started, so I feel genuinely guilty that we're there,
you know, Ed, I gotta commend you though. You're, you're
looking good these days. I just got a new blazer
because I, I lost some weight.

(05:18):
And so got a new blazer. You're looking good. I
saw you got some new shoes. Somebody gave you some shoes.
Derwin Gray gave me. Oh no, those are my glue sneakers.
I was at the hackathon. Yeah, I do. Derwin had
given you. Derwin had given me some sneakers. Well, you know,
I don't want to end up on some like, like
preachers and sneakers. There are some people. So when Derwin
gave me the sneakers, I was like.

(05:38):
Hey, how, I hate to ask about a gift, but
are these like really expensive because I don't want to
end up on somebody's, you know, social media as, as
a preacher or sneakers. They were just like $1000 or something. No,
they were $100 100 dollars, he told me. He said,
he said, I'm not giving you nice shoes. So I
was like, OK, fair enough. You might show up on
the Julie Roy's report or something if you're wearing $1000 sneakers.
You could be.

(05:58):
That's all I'm gonna say about that. That's there you go.
There you go. All right, well, hey, that's the voice
of Doctor Ed Stetzer phone number is 8885. You know,
I love to do the phone number, but I am
here and it's good to, good to see you guys. Likewise.
And you brought someone with you. I did. I brought
Dwayne Es. Dwayne and I have worked together for a
long time. Uh, he actually, he's, he serves as a
pastor as because he loves pastor to the church, but

(06:21):
he's actually, um, works in the CSB.
The Christian Standard Bible, uh, what is your exact like title?
What is your fancy title? Acquisition strategist. OK. Well, what, what,
what I brought him here today for you, Brian Burgers
and last time I was here, you know, I'm, I'm
an ambassador for the CSB, so you can learn how
to acquire things. So stay with me. What, what Bible
is that right there? What Bible is that right there?

(06:42):
Because we brought you a Bible. Oh, very nice.
What is, what is it? Say it out loud. If
people can't hear what you're doing. It is the Christian
Standard Bible, and you have been using that in your devotions.
I have been, yes, but we, I, I asked Dwayne
to bring Dwayne, uh, we're on Facebook too, so you get,
you got your stack of Bibles. Where's your stack of Bibles?
They're over here on the floor. They're over here on
the floor. So we have Bibles for both of you.

(07:05):
Including, because we're gonna give you a preaching Bible and
a study Bible. So what, what, give me, give me
just two examples of the Bible's over there so they
can know what to pick from because the big thing
about Bible publishing right now, you know, Bibles are sales
are up 22% year over year, like shy the amount,
and a lot of it is because people are more
interested in the Bible. Some of it is because Bible
publishing has like what BNH does, uh, with, with, uh,

(07:26):
with the CSB, a lot of initials there. Brodman and Holman,
BNH Publishing is at Lifeway.
And the CSB. So what are two examples? Two examples. Well,
we brought, uh, a couple different preaching Bibles. I'll use
that as one category. Uh, we have a single column
personal size reference Bible, which is a beautiful Bible that
we just released, and then we have a verse by verse, uh,
preaching Bible as well.

(07:47):
Uh, I was gonna say that's what that looks like
right there. That's where you got that one already. So
Brian Perez is picking up the Bible, and we got
one for you as well. So you pick whichever one
you want, and then, uh, and, and you know, Dwayne, I,
I wanna say to this was gifted to me a
couple of years ago by the CSB there, yeah, so.
Um, was it Andy? I don't remember who it was.

(08:09):
Andy kind of runs the shop, so maybe, maybe so.
So anyway, I, and you know, verse by verse to
me is the way to go the heart of if,
but if you're preaching too, you know, because I preaching
with paragraphs, you're kind of like, wait, where, where's the verse?
I know it's in there somewhere, you know, so I
love the I love the verse by verse still.

(08:29):
Same for me. Preaching it's just helpful to follow along, uh, or,
or to find your place more quickly. I preached with
that like the paragraph thing for a couple of years
and I was always lost, you know, so I was like, verse, uh,
what verse are we on? So, so we're coming bringing gifts. Um,
I'm fascinated by the blue Bible. I talked about this.
So what, what is the deal with that?

(08:51):
This is the grace Bible for kids. That's your camera
right there, yeah, this is the, uh, grace Bible for kids.
It's dyslexia friendly dyslexia. What does that mean, dyslexia friendly
because it's like people are talking about this all over. Absolutely.
So it's a special font that we worked with, uh,
2K over in Denmark. Uh, they, they began working on
this a few years ago and we partnered with them
to release this, uh, really just within the last year.

(09:13):
And so it's, uh, it comes with overlays, uh, so
it's a special font that has, uh, special weighting in
the letters that help, uh, uh, those who have those
challenges to, to read a little bit better.
Uh, and then it comes with color overlays that also
help with, with that, uh, with that reading process. Can
people see a sample of this online? Yeah, absolutely. uh,
Lifeway.com Lifeway.com, because I want to see this, even though

(09:36):
I know it's an arm's length away and I can
reach over and get it, but I just wanna the
Grace Bibles because we have them for adults as well.
And I just thought that was cool, and I know
we don't want to turn this into a CSB commercial,
so I just brought you free Bibles.
Uh, but I thought we can do a little commercial.
Here's your, here's your radio station. I would love to
people have questions about Bible translations too. That could be

(09:56):
part of our conversation today because you use the NKJV
for preaching.
Uh, now, I, for the past, you know, 3 or
4 years I've used CNIV. Oh, I thought you was
in KIV. I mean, I've used the KJV for, you know,
3.5 decades. OK, so that was, so Chuck was KJV.
Chuck KJV. You were in KJV then you went to
NIV and now you're gonna go to CSB because we're

(10:17):
bringing Bibles right here.
Well, my, my wife loves CSB. You know, I, I
dabbled with the ESB, of course, everybody does. I guess
all the cool kids did for, for, but I never could.
I just couldn't get the into the groove of the
of the ESV.
Um, and I, and I do like the CSB, and I'm,

(10:37):
and I'm warming up to it, you know, you know,
when you, when you've read one translation for so long,
it's just lodged in your brain. So anything you see
that's different, and the NIV for me, I love it
on lots of levels, but it was so different. It's like, why, why,
why are they saying it like that? That's not the
way I like to hear.
For me it was NASB. Like I was like, like

(10:58):
my Bible memory verses are all in NASB and then
they updated that to 9595 and then and then again 2020. Yes, see,
the man knows Bible translations, uh, but now, so I
was at when I was at Lifeway, you know, Eric Guyger,
who you know, you know, we use it at Mariner's Church,
so the CSB has been our, it's we, our Pew Bibles, everything, um,

(11:18):
and I started Lifeway and I worked there, so I
had to use the CSB because I worked there, but
I really liked it because it has the
I like the, the way the literalness when appropriate that,
you know, one of the things is important to me
where it says we're adopted as sons. I, I'm not
mad at the NIV, but the NIV says sons and daughters.
You say, well, why would it not say sons and daughters? No,

(11:39):
the NIB, uh, they, they rectified that with the with
the with the update. Great, OK, so you're up on this.
So I like the fact that the CSB says sons,
and then you got the footnote that explains that.
Men and women are adopted like the first born son
would be adopted. And so yeah, I mean, it's readable
like the NIV, but I, I trust, I really appreciate

(12:00):
translation philosophy more like the ESB I preached at a
church on LA, a church on LA, a church in
LA on Sunday, and as I was kind of doing
the preparation, talking to them back and forth, they said, um,
what Bible do you translation do you use? And I said, Well,
what do you want? They said, we use the CSB
and I said.
OK, I'll bring my, I'll bring my CSB. Now here's

(12:22):
my question for you, Dwayne. Um, when, when, what's the
publishing date on this one? Um, so, uh, CSB was
started in 2017, but we updated knowing with the new translation,
we knew there was gonna be an update within a
few years and so in 2020 we updated 2020, OK.
OK, because the ESV, they updated in in 2016 and

(12:44):
then just recently, just recently 2025, right? Do you guys
have uh an update date or no, matter of fact, uh, we,
we value the aspect of a stable translation. Now that's
not to say that, you know, maybe in another 3
to 5 years that we, we won't look, we have
a translation oversight committee where
Uh, we want to always maintain the, the best possible
aspect of that, but we don't, we're not going into

(13:06):
it with embracing a philosophy of continual updates. And so,
and it's a little tricky because you know there was
a whole brouhaha.
The ESV said we're, this is it, we're not gonna
update this. And then there were some things they said, well,
actually we need to update it. Then they updated people
got mad at them. I mean, I, I this is
the insider baseball on Bible translations, but it is good
to look at the latest scholarship, see if there's a

(13:28):
word that needs to be translated differently, but not to
do it too frequently is the is the issue. So yeah,
and I've been, I've been kind of disappointed with, I,
I mean, you know, I get it. So that the
NIV was, it was 885 or 84.
And then the 2011 and
So we're 1011 years now, right? Or 10 years, 15, um, yeah,

(13:54):
at our age it's all one year is the same
as the other. But, but anyway, I, I look at
the NIB and I think, oh gosh, you know, I
can help you guys on this because we should add
you to the Bible translation. Yeah, yeah, with with all
my scholarly background, I'm sure I would. You do have
a master's degree from Wheaton College. Yes, I do. Uh,
it's not in any languages though. There are no language,
but you know, like, like the NIV.

(14:16):
They they just did a couple of things where you think, OK,
that's the dumbest thing anybody. Like, I mean, I, we,
I just, we, we love all Bible translation. You're using
the NIV just so we're clear. You're not saying it's bad,
but what choice did you not like? OK, um, cursed
is everyone who is hanged on a tree pole, really,
an IV pole. I wanna look at what it is
in in the CSV. What's it I believe it's it's, OK, yeah,

(14:38):
I believe, yes, it is. It is. It says pole.
I wouldn't be I wouldn't be carrying this around.
And then here's, here's another one, and Jesus looked at
him and was filled with
I don't, I'm afraid to guess what just what compassion, compassion, indignation.

(14:59):
What where it says indignation and Mark, how interesting. Yeah,
Matthew and Luke, same passage say compassion. Mark says indignation
because some manuscript somewhere had this one word and some
guy decided it's probably this interesting and to me that's
like that's where.

(15:20):
Too much education turned you and we wanna say as
people who love churches across Southern California and the world
that the Bible translation mentioned are all if your church
is using them, all of them are fine. Uh, what
we would say is, I, again, for me, the CSB,
it's a, uh, in some ways it's a translation philosophy
which I, I like the more literalness, you know, it's

(15:41):
closer to word for word.
But simultaneously it's readable. I want to have a Bible
I can give to somebody and they're like, this, this
reads like humans speak but still have that. So that's
they call it, you know, they call it optimal equivalence.
I like that. So that's been a, and, and I mean, honestly,
you know, I don't know if this will be if

(16:02):
you'll like this or you won't like this, but I
do think.
Um, I, I think that the new King James, you know, the,
the real issue with the new King James is the
manuscript issue, right? It's, yeah, but the, but it reads well.
I think it's a little bit archaic in some places,
but I do, I do feel like the CSB.
It retains some of the cadence and the poeticness of

(16:25):
the so they hired a stylist, and there's a person
who does poetry.
Because there is, I mean, there is a certain sense
to that. And so if you look in the front matter,
you'll see that there's a, there's a language, uh, and
see that's my, my biggest problem with the NIV is
that it seems to have lost that case and that
that sort of poetic, you know, the poetic thing helps

(16:45):
with memory because it just says things in a certain way,
has a flow to it, a rhythm to it, yeah,
you know, Paul says, um, in Acts 20 I just
teaching that last Sunday night.
Um, none of these things move me, nor do I
count my life dear to myself. That just like resonates.
That's a nice flow yeah a good flow, and you
know that the original authors were writing to be read

(17:09):
in a public setting, so there's that's that flow is
there in the original Greek, so.
But if you want to talk about Bible translations, we're
at 8. You should ask Dwayne questions. 888-888-5646173. I literally
only come in to read the number and Brian Pri
let's me 888-564-6173. Have you decided which Bible you're gonna take?

(17:29):
No, I haven't looked at them yet. No, you can. Yes, I,
I will look. I must say that somebody on staff
knew that Dwayne was coming in today, so they happen
to have a purple. Wow, look at this. This is,
this looks like a like this must be something for
a specific like branch of the military or something. I've
never seen a purple. It's a purple cover. It comes
in different colors, I'm sure. This is like this is
the kind of bible you hand out, which is again

(17:50):
one of the things I love.
is to be able to hand out a Bible that
non-Christians can read and say, oh yes, because, and that's
a question that we get often on this program where
you know, which translation should I read and often will
give the response of the one you're going to read,
the one that's in the best language for you. It
doesn't have to be the Shakespearean king and I would
say that's the concern I have is that, and I

(18:11):
love the King James and its beauty, uh, you know,
my concern is, since the King James is the best
selling Bible, if someone picks it up.
And they're just they're just don't know where, like, what
in the world this words or things of that sort.
So I probably wouldn't say give an unchurched person any Bible. I,
I would, I would, you know, for an unchurched person,
I want to give them the CSB is what I

(18:31):
most frequently give or the NIV or the NLT is
what I would give to an unchurched person more likely
just because of the reading ability for them to be
able to go along. good to know that the CSB
is included in that list for sure, and I would
say of the more literal translations, that would be the
only one that I would feel comfortable.
Like I've been sharing the gospel with, I guess I
should say it on the air Casey, uh, with, with

(18:52):
a guy that I that I work, he does work
for me and, um, you know, this is the Bible
that for me I say, hey, take this. I happen
to be an ambassador, so I have them, so I
get to give it to him. So that's kind of
nice that that works good. That that made me think
of something, um, but I forget. OK, this happens when
we get older, yes.

(19:13):
I'll give the phone number out in the mean. No,
you can do it. No, no, you right, I'll do it.
I do it 4 days a week. Come on, folks,
give us a call, ask some questions. Could be a
Bible translation or about, about anything you want to talk about.
This is Pastor's perspective here on Kwave 888-564-6173888564-6173. I like
to do a little bit but I, I would say

(19:35):
before we even go to any calls, we should just
Talk to Dwayne a little bit because he's here in
the studio and this is a a rare occasion to
have somebody doing what you do sitting here. So yeah,
tell us, like you have an audience out there listening
to you. What do you want to tell them about
the CSB? Yeah, well, we've talked a lot about it, uh,

(19:58):
thus far. It's just the, the care of the translation
philosophy that that the, the translation oversight committee took, uh,
the translation committee took back in 2017, again 2020.
Um, just the opportunity to work for a team that
helps steward, a major Bible translation has, uh, been a
wonderful opportunity for me personally and, and professionally as I've,

(20:19):
I've pastored for off and on for over 25 years, uh,
by vocationally. Um, and so, um, this is, like I said,
been a fantastic opportunity. One of the things that we
get to do in stewarding a major Bible translation.
Is, uh, look at the Bible market, look at what's
out there, and, uh, not only is it fascinating just
from a business perspective, but we get to operate with

(20:41):
a bunch of other, uh, major Bible translations that are
completely faithful translations. We've talked about that, uh, this afternoon and, um,
at the heart of our team, and I'm not saying
that this isn't the case for, for other Bible translations,
but the heart of our team is really Bible engagement. Yes,
we get to steward a translation, yes, we get to.
Um, you know, work towards, um, creating specific types of

(21:03):
Bibles that are engaging, um, but really at the heart
of it is just please read your Bible, and, um,
that was, that was one thing I should have expected
coming into a team like this, um, but, uh, but
I didn't, and it was a it was a surprise
for me.
Uh, that we, we truly have a team that, that cares, uh,
that we, we absolutely have people who, who regularly engage

(21:25):
in their Bible reading. Now, we obviously want them to
do that from the CSB. We think we have a
great translation that enables a high level of engagement. So, um,
you know, we, we want, we want to do that.
So I have a couple of questions. So I, I
was kind of with you guys a little bit on
the journey of the HCSB.
And then, you know, moving toward the the CSB. What

(21:48):
happened with that? And, you know, because I, I think
there were a couple of times where there were with
the HCSB there were some, you know, some pretty um
quick updates in comparison to what, you know, might be
the the plan now.
But then I remember specifically, you know, dropping the H
and the CSB and that that it seems to me

(22:11):
that the CSB was when that landed, it's like, OK,
this is what we've been aiming for. Yeah, yeah, I
think there's a lot that goes into that. Number one, we,
we are a denominational publisher and uh I think the
HCSB with the Holman attached to it, um.
It actually worked against exactly what we tried to fight

(22:34):
against and, and the translation oversight in the translation committee.
I mean, 100 different, uh, folks working on that translation
from 17 different denominations, yet it, it seemed as almost
if it was, oh, this is the Bible for Southern Baptists,
and it's not, right? And they always knew that there
would be further updates. And so, um, I can't remember
exactly when, but sometime prior to 2017 when they started

(22:56):
working on this.
Uh, there was a pretty early decision, I think, to,
to move towards something that would communicate the broader appeal
of this, uh, even in our own, you know, we
have 1010 committee members on our translation oversight committee now,
broad denominational representation in that. And so it really is
a Bible, absolutely not just for Southern Baptists. So was that,

(23:17):
did that change with with going to the CSB versus
the ACCSB? Was the HCSB just pretty much an in-house
Southern Baptist translation unintentionally.
So I mean, not, not completely. There, there was, you know,
there was acceptance across the board, uh, but not like
what we wanted to see, I believe, and not like
what you see now. I mean, you've been, you've bumped
up a couple of times where the 2nd or the
3rd most sold bible. Yeah, uh, I can't remember some

(23:41):
of that data changed within the last, last couple of years, um,
but right now we, we kind of bumped between 5th
and 6th a lot.
Um, it, we have been higher than that, but I
think if you look at it just in the last
few years, uh, and don't quote me on this, maybe
I shouldn't say about to be on hundreds of thousands
of people. I do think it's one of the on
that recorder recorder he said that it's definitely one of

(24:03):
the fastest growing, and, and you know, we have Darren Lockett.
Do you know Darren Lockett from my faculty? He's on
the translation committee over at Viola. Oh no, I didn't
know yeah and you got.
Lutherans, Presbyterians, Baptists, um, I know there's a Wesley or
a Nazarene person, you know, they've got a whole team
that that do that, and I think it's important because
you don't want, you want the Bible to set the translation,

(24:24):
not the agenda of somebody else to this, you know,
or not in the new world translation Jehovah's Witness Bibles,
you know. So having a diverse group of scholars speaking
into it makes a difference. Are there Anglicans on it? Oh,
there's a, there's an Anglican from, uh, Ridley College who's the?
Uh, uh, yeah, he's the principal of Ridley College. You
probably know John Dixon used to work for him. Not,
not Mike Bird, no, no, not Mike Byrd. No, I,

(24:45):
I forget the guy's name. I'm gonna look it up
right now. Oh my gosh. So I'm drawing a blank. Dwayne,
which translation did you read before the CSB? Why did
you decide, yeah, we need something new. Yeah, um, so before, uh,
I came through seminary using the New American Standard 95.
And, uh, then shortly after I was there, uh, ESV, uh,

(25:06):
Crossway released the ESV and, uh, was given a free
ESV a seminary and, uh, quickly, yeah, quickly adopted, uh,
the ESV.
And then, uh, about 3 years ago, uh, 2 to
3 years ago is when I officially swapped while I
was pastoring a church, uh, from the ESB to the

(25:27):
CSB and did that for a lot of the same
reasons we've talked about here, just the readability of it, um,
being able to, to give that translation to a non-believer and,
and removing some of the language barrier for them to understand.
Uh, and, and you mentioned the poetry walking through the
Book of Psalms, um, I would, I would read the

(25:48):
translation as we were teaching and we get questions from
our own church members. I can understand that. What, what
translation are you using? just because of the, the, the how,
how they treated the poetry, how the translation committee treated
the poetry. So, uh, that was a bit confirming and
moving in that direction, but, um, so if you ask
me to, uh, and don't do it now, but if

(26:09):
you were to ask me.
Uh, to quote scripture, that's gonna come out somewhere in
the mix of new NASB, ESB, CSB. I have to
go verify myself all the time. So, yeah, Brian Rosner,
Brian Rosner is the guy I was thinking Brian from Melbourne,
you know, Brian, he's great. I know the name several
books he's, you know the name Brian. That's we got
too many Brians on this. This is Brian Perez and

(26:31):
Brian Roson. I, they told me I had to call
myself Ed Brian Stetzer if I can.
Well, I think that would be helpful. I'll take that
to your image, you know, for sure. Someone needs a
cool name. Something needs that image. So I'm so when
is the faculty of Talbot going to the CSB? We
already have, have you? Yeah, yeah, the Talbot has adopted
the CSB. Uh, we, we had a, you know, we

(26:53):
shared with our faculty, etc. etc. Now here's the thing,
we don't like have, they're not like, you know, tasers
for people who don't, you know, you can use.
But, but the, uh, but if you come in the
class and they're quoting from the ES I don't tase them. um,
ESV is like the Ed Stetzer version. So I'm not,
you know, I don't bothered by that, um, but yeah,
so what we pass out to our students, we're passing out,

(27:14):
we have another thing coming up in January when they
come in we give them, uh, CSBs, um, so yeah,
so that's kind of our, we have, uh, we have
a partnership with Talbot and CSB have a partnership, uh,
together and a lot of different schools do. So again, it's.
The thing is, you want something people like, but you
also want people that's something the scholars say this is right.

(27:35):
And so, you know, we love that Darren Lockett is
on there, but you know Clint Arnold from our faculty,
he's on the ESV translation committee, so we're like no
no tasing, no tas and just our deans decided to
adopt this as our Bible translation of choice.
And you know, in the end, I mean, I think
you do this, I do this. I, I use a
variety of translations. I mean, I can show up you know, with,

(27:57):
with one week I show up with one translation the
next week, but I do it intentionally because it's like, OK,
in this chapter I, I want to use this, yeah,
but you know, you know, the Southern California master of
that was Rick Warren. Like he'd have a sermon, he'd
like 7 translations of it. So I remember I was
preaching there one time. I got 1 minute left. I
was preaching there one time.
Uh, and, uh, and he didn't like one of the

(28:18):
translations I picked. I said, Rick, you, you pick all
of them. Like, what do you, what are you picking
on the one translation I used anyway, so it's, it's,
it's sort of funny. Yeah, I've, I've heard him do
that exact thing, yeah.
Now somebody might ask, and we're coming up to our break,
but it just, it for the longest time it seemed
like the King James was the only Bible out for Jesus, right.

(28:38):
And then in the last what, 50, 60 years, I
don't know how we've got everything now, so many different translations.
So people might be asking why do we need another one?
Are there any more in the works? Are we gonna,
in a few years, is there gonna be another
All of a sudden, now this, you know, yeah, I mean,
you know, the E is in process. Well, that's the ESV,

(28:59):
but I do think, yeah, I think we're about running
out of time, but I would tell you that there
are some reasons why there were a birth of new
Bible translations 10 to 15 years ago.
Because there were some questions about where some of the
Bible translations were going, and I think that that's sort
of settled down now, but we needed to see, so
the CSB was a translation that came out of a
milieu when people were questioning their Bible translations because people

(29:22):
were maybe toying with them in ways that weren't helpful.
All right, we've got to take a break here on
Pastor's perspective. If you've got a question about Bible translations
or anything really, call us up, 888-564-6173 is the number.
If you're watching on Facebook, YouTube or Instagram, the numbers
right there on the bottom of your screen. We would

(29:42):
love to hear from you. We are going to be
in the studio.
For another half hour with Pastor Brian Broderson, Doctor Ed Stetzer,
and our guest today whose last name I don't know
how to say it, Dwayne Es. Yours, yours. All right. And, uh,
he's got a pastoral background as well, so we'd love
to hear your questions at 888-564-6173.

(30:17):
We are back on Pastor's Perspective. Thanks so much for
listening today. Thanks for watching. Maybe you're listening on a podcast.
Thank you for doing that. We're available on Spotify and
Apple Podcasts, Facebook, YouTube, live streaming right now on Instagram
as well. We would love to hear from you at 888-564-6173.
My name is Brian Perez. We've got Pastor Brian Broderson

(30:38):
from Echoes of Mercy.
Doctor Ed Stetzer from the Talbot School of Theology at
Biola University who is shaking his head right now. I'm
just not used to the echoes of Mercy thing. I'm,
I've gotten used to it. How long echoes of Mercy.com. OK,
all right, all right. Not Calvary Chapel goes to Mesa. Well,
he still teaches. I know, but he's still it's weird
not to think of, I mean, you know, you could

(30:59):
call me Pastor Emeritus if you feel, I just say
comfortable char kicked you out.
His son, yes, no, no, totally kidding. I just, you know,
we want to let people know. Yeah, kind of makes sense.
There's been a transition. It's a good thing. Yep. And
we've got a special guest today. His name is Dwayne Ewers. Awesome.
He's a pastor. You're still is this still your church, Bradley? No, no,

(31:21):
I won't I'm at Emanuel Baptist Church in Laverne, Tennessee now. OK,
so we're gonna have to change the, uh, caption on our, uh,
video there, but, uh, yeah, you might want to update
your I wanna update my own, yeah.
That might be helpful. Yeah, so what's the name of
the church again? Emmanuel Baptist Church in Laverne, Tennessee. Laverne, Tennessee. Baptist.
Dwayne's got that accent. I just do. I like working

(31:42):
with Dwayne Dwayne's a real country boy. He like.
He kills stuff. You hunt. Uh, well, I haven't done
much of it in recent years, but yes. Oh, and
Laverne is spelled like I would not have Laney Lavergny. Yes,
and that website didn't work, so Emmanuel.org. That should work.
Must have been like an attempt by the French to
set up a colony in Tennessee or something. That must

(32:04):
be it. All right, so 888-564-6173 is our number, and
we have a, uh, question here about the topic and um.
Lance writes, asking Ed to help listeners. We do. We
love Lance. In fact, I think Lance, but I'll probably
see Lance tonight. He's been coming to my Wednesday night
Bible study at Mariners's Church. Oh, it's that right? Really?

(32:25):
Very cool. So, uh, say hi to Lance for me.
He's a good man. Yes, and, uh, so here's what
he texted because that is an option all of a
sudden to text in your.
Questions to my personal phone number, um, Only some people
have it. So, uh, Lance says we can give out
your cell phone number if we can. I, I almost
have by accident, uh, but I've also almost given out

(32:46):
my cell phone number as 888-564-6173, and then I stop
and think, wait, that's not my cell phone number. Anyway, Lance.
Asking Ed to help listeners understand formal equivalent versus dynamic
equivalent versus how CSB was translated could be helpful for listeners,
as most people would not know the difference. I will

(33:07):
explain the big picture and then you talk about Dwayne,
you talk about optimal equivalence and what you do here.
So formal.
equivalence and uh and thought for thought, those are the contrasts, right? So,
formal is, well, let me give you an example. uh
Psalm 23:3 says, you anoint my head with oil. That's
a formal literal translation of this. Um, now, if you

(33:28):
want to make a dynamic equivalent, which is more of
a thought for thought, so formal equivalence is word for word,
dynamic equivalence tends to be thought for thought.
So, what does you anoint my head with oil mean?
So then the translator says, OK, we can translate this literally,
you anoint my head with oil, OK? But you could
also translate it as you welcome me as an honored guest.

(33:51):
So that's the thought that's behind that passage. So when
Brian Broderson's up there preaching, he probably explains, cause he's
gonna read Psalm 235, you anoint my head with oil
and says, just so you know, that's what they do
to welcome an honored guest.
Whereas a thought for thought translation like the NLT might
actually say, uh, you welcome me as an honored guest,

(34:14):
I should look it up, I don't really know. But, but,
or to another example is Ephesians 3:18, to grasp how
is the breadth, the length, and the depth and the height,
you know, that's a word for word formal, or a
dynamic equivalence would be to say something like, to grasp
how wide and long and high the deep is is
the love of Christ. So it's, it's taking the thoughts.

(34:35):
And translating not as literal between the two. So formal
is on one side, dynamic is on the other side,
and then the the CSB seeks to create this thing
they call dynamic, uh, excuse me, uh, but you explain it,
optimal optimal equivalent. And essentially what that means is where

(34:56):
there is a perfectly understandable.
Um, formal translation, then, then we default to that. That
is our, that is our default position.
But where it might make sense, uh, to, to smooth
that reading out is in situations where the formal translation

(35:17):
might not be understood as easily or it might not
uh read in our in our English, uh, as well
as the original may may communicate in its in its
own words. And so, um, you know, I think about
one example that comes to mind.
Um, uh, using a big word propitiation, uh, Romans 3:25,

(35:38):
the CSB translates that as, as mercy seat, relating that
back to Exodus 25, I believe, um, and, and brings
that unity through the biblical narrative, uh, to what Paul
is actually communicating there in Romans 3. And so it, it,
when we talk about optimal equivalence, uh, it really does
kind of sit in between the two, strategically, right?
Uh, and, but, but just so know that more often

(36:02):
than not, we're actually moving towards a, a formal translation,
a literal translation of, of the text, but defaulting when
it makes sense to
Uh, to have something that we could understand a little better. Yeah,
you know, it's, it's interesting because I was reading Romans
the other day and I, you know, so, um, in
KJV would say propitiation, uh, NIV says atoning sacrifice, and

(36:26):
then I read mercy seat, which I think King James
would maybe be mercy seat, but I think in Romans
3 it's probably propitiation, but mercy seat, you find it
in King James. It is uh propitiation.
So I, and I thought, wow, that's, you know, I,
I mean it kind of shocked me. It's like, oh
mercy seat, there's mercy seat and you know, which do

(36:47):
you prefer? You don't have to prefer the CSB version,
just what do you prefer? I'm interested as far as
as far as that translation propitiation mercy seat. Well, you know, I,
I really have a fondness for, um, Tyndale.
And Tyndall invented the word mercy and so you like
the CSP. That's a win. No, I liked it. I thought, yeah, I,
and I, and I don't mind like you said, I mean,

(37:07):
I would, I would say I would prefer to say
anoint my head with oil and then explain versus how
it explain. Yeah, CSB says anoint my head with oil
because it's close enough. Yeah, kind of the best example
of this in my view is Amos 46. So Amos
46 in, uh, in the King James version says.
And I have also given you cleanliness of teeth in

(37:29):
all of your cities. The English Standard version follows that.
I've given you cleanness of teeth in all your cities,
and then the NIV says, I gave you empty stomachs
in every city. So, cleanliness of teeth means you have
no food, and so finding that sort of right way
to translate that is sort of the
And and the CSB says I gave you absolutely nothing

(37:50):
to eat in all your cities. So the most literal
is your teeth are clean. But what does that what
does that even mean? So I think the CSB, whereas
the I think the the ESV would not be my
preference as I give you, I gave you cleanliness of
teeth in all your cities because remember the ESV is
very much connected to the RSV, so there's connection there,
but again.
We just want to say again, Bibles are good. All

(38:13):
these Bibles talking about are good, but there is a
whole thing. This is why people go to seminary to
learn these things, the translation choices that are made. So
I hope, Lance, you're awesome, uh, hope that answers, uh,
Lance's question about formal and dynamic and in the case
of CSB. So, and I would say by saying optimal equivalent,
you're basically saying we're kind of between formal and dynamic.
So I heard someone today say it's kind of between

(38:34):
the ESV and the NIB. I think it has the
readability of the NIV and the accuracy of the ESV,
which I'd put that in the W column. And I,
and I really like, I like the optimal part like
when you can just take the word for word, you're
doing it because it's.
It reads perfectly and should be our default position, and

(38:56):
then at other times we need a little help here
the cleanliness of teeth. We need a little help. Yeah,
I like that, but I like your teeth being clean,
but that sounds like a dentist trip, not a statement
of family. I mean, especially today, I mean, who thinks
of anything except a dentist when you read about the
cleanliness of teeth, right, exactly.
Wonderful, wonderful. So we've got another question that was sent in. Oh, it's,

(39:16):
it's Lance again. Um, hi Lance, thanks for listening. Um,
is it really Lance? Yes, it's Lance again. Um, he says, uh, Lance,
you can only do this once a month. Well, Lance
and I, I like Lance. He can answer any question
he wants with me. Yes. So, uh, he says if
you need another question, asking about the value of.
Purchasing a study Bible to help readers better understand the scripture.

(39:39):
Like it sounds like you're like paying him to just
full disclosure, I don't know Lance. A study Bible adds
a lot of helps and the CSB study Bible is really,
really helpful. So Lance used to run the Calvary Chapel
bookstore here, the chapel store of Calvary Chapel goes to Masa,
so he knows his stuff about Bibles and books and things,
but yeah, yeah.
But what would you say? Yeah, uh, I, I personally

(40:02):
believe the CSB study Bible is, is a fantastic study bible. Now,
I admittedly, I'm probably biased, but I had that opinion
before I went to work for the CSB, so, uh, I,
I should, I should state that. uh, so many, I
think the notes are, are done very well, um, again,
kind of a broad, broader evangelical perspective on that, um.
I think there's a specific features within our, our study

(40:25):
bible uh just on a personal note, one of the
most helpful for me is the timeline that runs, uh, at,
at the, in the introductory pages, uh, of, of every book. It,
it helps you place the historical context, uh, not just
in biblical history, but kind of what else is going
on in the world at that time. Um, it, it's
eye opening really to, to make sure that you're, you're

(40:46):
kind of looking at this in its historical context, as you're,
as you're reading through.
Um, that, that particular book of the Bible. So wonderful
features in their word studies, call outs, um, the importance
of a good study Bible. Matter of fact, I've done
this at a few churches, uh, that where I've taught
or pastored is what are the kind of the top

(41:07):
10 resources that a layperson should use, uh, for, for
deepening their Bible study.
And, um, I usually list 3 or 4 translations that
I think they should have a scripture because it's good
for us to read multiple translations, but this, the next
thing I encourage them to buy is the CSB study
Bible and, and, um, and for that reason, it's off

(41:28):
the shelf a great study resource. Yeah, so we did, uh,
the Mariners, we were doing a series and it was
on how to, I forget the exact title of the series,
it's something clever because it's Eric, um, but it was
something on how to study the Bible.
And we actually, uh, we, we, we printed for everybody
in church, like a chapter, I forget what it was
like Ephesians from the study Bible so people could see it. Uh,

(41:48):
and then we actually had, you know, our bookstore set
out tables outside, if you don't have a study Bible,
we actually, we use the CSB at Mariners. So go
outside and pick up a, you know, buy a CSB
Stubb from a bookstore, um, and we just went through
how to use a study Bible because it's interesting to me, like,
a lot of people are intimidated by that. I didn't
think about that because I've loved, you know, I've used
a study Bible forever.
My first one was uh life application Bible. I mean,
I mean, who didn't have the life application Bible back

(42:10):
in the day? Did you have that? I have one
in my library. It's so great. Yeah, it's so great.
The color stuff. I have a big hardback red. I
think every like everyone had the hardback red, um, and
so they're they're great different ones and now they sort
of have niche study Bibles like there's the CSB study Bible,
which is like the Bible itself.
But then you can actually draw in like there's the

(42:31):
apologetic study Bible. A lot of my, my professors are
a part of that where you kind of take a
different angle. I don't even know what other things are there,
like what I was gonna say about recently released Connecting
Scriptures New Testament. Oh, that's like you just released that
like today. Today is the actual release with Beal and
who else? Ben Glad, you know Beal and Glad Beal
GK Beal GK and. OK, amazing. This is today. So,
so you didn't bring one to give away to the Brians.

(42:53):
I've got one in my bag. OK, is it just
a New Testament or?
Just the New Testament. So the Old Testament is slated,
you know, 28, uh, but that'll be, uh, yeah, uh,
Ben Glade will still be involved in that project. We
have another editor that will join him, so we're kicking
that off right now. Um, but the New Testament released today,
and it's, uh, uh, a Bible that shows the, not,

(43:15):
not just quotes from New where the New Testament quotes
the Old Testament, but even where the New Testament alludes
to the Old Testament. Uh, so the, the New Testament's
use of.
The Old Testament study notes on that are fantastic. You
know what, you know what I like in here too
in the New Testament, I, I like when they bold
the Old Testament quotes. That, that's really like, I don't
have to, you don't have to go. I don't have
to underline that you don't, that's similar for the connecting

(43:38):
scriptures New Testament. So quotes are bolded in blue and
the illusions are a light green color, so you can
distinguish where the, the New Testament's quoting the old versus
where it's alluding to the Old Testament, so.
Well, you know, uh, you know, my wife is the
queen of study Bibles. She has literally read every word
in about 8 different study Bibles. I mean, every word

(44:02):
she reads every, if there's a word on the page,
she's gonna read it, you know. So, well, again, it
doesn't have to be CSB study Bible. We were, we
gave you what, what's her favorite? Well, she's, she's done everything.
She really does like the CSB, like, no, I mean,
she just would tell me, I, I love the I
love the CSB, um.
In January we're releasing our new women's study Bible. OK,

(44:24):
would you promise right now to send me one to
get to Brian Broderson? I will. OK, we'll get it
to Cheryl. Cheryl's way better than Bro. She's like, she's
the godly half of the relationship, smart half the godly half.
I get that with my wife. The CSB is available
for purchase, by the way, at the chapel store of
Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa, which was, uh, Lance's next thought,

(44:44):
and he's not even running the bookstore anymore, and he
still wanted us to mention that. But thank you, Lance.
You are such a good guy. Yes, he is. We
miss him around here.
But you're missing my church history class on Wednesday night
to go to Ed's class. I mean, what, what is that? Well,
I feel like maybe I shouldn't have said that on
on K wave. You're just visiting, just visiting. We're studying
the whole story of God. We're doing.
You know, our rooted deep dive on the story of God.

(45:06):
You did that already, you know, you know, sometimes people
like to learn it from somebody else. Tonight I'm gonna
talk about how monotheism changed everything. Have you read Thomas
Cahill's book The Gift of the Jews? I have not.
I read how Irish. Oh, how the Irish saved civilization,
which is so great, so great, but in, uh, in
the gift of the Jews, he actually explains how monotheism.

(45:27):
You know, before monotheism, basically when you got beat up
by your neighbor, you just said, well your god's stronger
than my God, so I'll worship your God.
But when with monotheism, the Jews would be taken away
into captivity and still worship the one true God. So
it changed the way people think. It changed their perception
of time and suffering and everything else. It's a fascinating
book called The Gift of the Jews by Thomas Cale. Yeah,

(45:49):
I've seen the book. I might even have it, but
I've not read it. It's one of those books on
your shelf that you might get to one day. We
should take some calls. We should, and, uh, Hannah, we're
gonna take you first and Colton, thanks for calling 888-564-6173.
What did you want to ask?

Speaker 2 (46:05):
Hi, um, I actually wanted to ask, it goes along
the lines of what you guys are already talking about. Uh,
my husband and I stumbled upon the complete Jewish Bible,
which was written by a rabbi, I forget his name, um,
but I was just wondering your guys' uh, thoughts on
that.

Speaker 1 (46:25):
Yes, it's David Stern. David Stern was the rabbi, so yeah,
I don't know if you guys, I'm up on this
if you guys are not up on this.
Um, yeah, I mean, I, I think David Stern does
a good job, and, uh, I, you know, kind of
earlier versions of this kind of thing that before they
did a complete, I had copies of it. Yeah, it's, it's,

(46:46):
I would, I would, um, I'm kind of interested where
Hannah ran across this. Hannah, how did you, was it
was Hannah, wasn't it? Hannah, where did you find this,
this Bible? It's, it's kind of obscure. Where did you
find it?

Speaker 2 (46:57):
Um, so my husband and I actually found it on
the Bible app. YouVersion, yeah, and then he bought me,
he bought me actually a copy of it.
And I was reading through the preface or the beginning
where the rabbi was talking about how he came to
be and it seemed like he was kind of self-congratulatory.

(47:21):
I don't know how to describe it.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
He's very excited about his translation, so I think that's
the charitable way to put it. So yeah, yeah, so
I love that I love that you're you're OK, let
me give you a little background on it. So it's
not really, um, the main differences are stylistic.
And translation rather than like translation choices, more like not
translating Jewish words into American English. So it's Yeshua, you know, it's, uh,

(47:50):
you know, so you'll see that throughout the Bible. So it's, I,
I would find it it's a nice, it's a nice supplement. Now,
now again, you know, you don't know me from Adam,
but
Um, but I, I'm the dean of the Talbot School
of Theology. We have a Messianic Jewish studies program in
Brooklyn in an acidic Jewish neighborhood in Brooklyn in New
York City in partnership with Chosen People Ministries. We have
dozens of students who are studying, doing their master's divinity

(48:13):
in Messianic Jewish studies. This would be something that they
would be familiar with. Most of them would use standard
translations like the CSB or the ESB or whatever.
But they would also probably come alongside and say, to
remind themselves that that there are specific and I, I

(48:33):
would say, I mean, it is a version, but you know,
I might even see some of the goal is to
bring out the Jewishness of the scriptures, and so a
lot of Messianic people really love it. It reminds them
of cultural and linguistic contexts that are there, um, but,
you know, so I, I would say it's fine. I'm not,
I think it's, it's, it's fine.
Um, I, I would say sometimes people, uh, there are

(48:57):
some criticism of it downplaying the divinity of Christ. I don't,
I mean, he's not, he's a, he's not, it's not,
I mean, it's a complete Jewish Bible, but it's a
messianic Jewish translation. So it's important to remember that it's
not done by a, by a rabbi, but a messianic
Jewish rabbi. So not widely used in
Academic settings, but more in messianic devotional lay settings. So,

(49:22):
and I'm, I think that would be helpful use of it. Yeah,
and so, and some people, uh, you know, like to,
I mean, I've met people who wanna refer to Jesus
as Yeshua rather than Jesus because though that's closer to his,
his actual name. And then, of course, Christ, and some
people say, well, we should, we should say Messiah.

(49:43):
Um, I, I think the CSB uses Messiah very frequently
more so than, than, than others, yeah, yeah, because that
is more literal and more Jewish, but Christ is the
Greek translation. Yeah. So, so I think, um, you know,
like I said, I've, David Stern, I've been familiar with
him for, for many, many years, and I read like
I was saying before, there was like a whole Bible

(50:05):
like you have access to. I read, I think the
New Testament when he did that.
And if, if you just want sort of a, a
Jewish flavor to it, it, it's fine. It's, it's, you know,
if you like that, lose flavor, but I wouldn't say
it would be your, this is not gonna be your
study bible that you're gonna, I, I'm not gonna get

(50:26):
up and preach from that Bible, not because it's bad,
it's just, it's not a translation that's gonna resonate with
most people.
Very good, Hannah, thank you for your phone call today
here on Pastors in our Bible translation lane we're in.
It's good. Yeah, totally. All right, we've got another question
along the same lines. It's from AI. No, it's from Al.

(50:46):
That's a lowercase l there looks like AI, but it's
Al and Temecula. Welcome to Pastor's perspective, Al.
Hello, hello guys. Hey, what did you want to ask? Yeah. Cool. Hey,
so you were talking about just some of the different
renderings and different versions of the Bible, and there's this person, Job,
that's been kind of like bugging me for a while.

(51:08):
It's Job 4:19, and it talks about, you know, in
the context there, it's just, you know, these, these humans
that are just their, their, their origins in the dust and,
and it says there that they're crushed before the moth
in King James or NKGV.
But you have some other versions like CSV and the
NLT they'll say crushed like a moth, and then you

(51:30):
have the new living trans or the it's the no,
the NIV says crushed more readily than a moth, and
they're actually quite different, so I'm wondering if anybody there.
Has an idea what this is really saying is it
really just saying crushed like a off?
What, what's the, what did you say the, the King
James or New King James was? What's the I have here.
It says crushed a moth. Yeah, before a moth. And

(51:54):
so that got me thinking because I've always kind of
gone with the NKJV and when I saw that, I thought, oh,
he's talking about people that just get wiped out before
they ever like.
I don't know, like, you know, in the larvae stage
before they ever get to go off to be the,
the moth or the butterfly. But then when these other
versions came along, it changed it to like a moth.
So I'm trying to figure out, well, which one's more

(52:16):
accurate because the word there is kind of like crushed
in the face of the moth, if I remember correctly.
The most literal, yeah, yeah. Can I just say Al
is like a serious student of the Bible like, come on.
And I, I think it, I think it's, it's kind
of all of the above, you know, I mean, that's,
you know, I, I never thought.
lot of like the larva thing that's really brilliant. See

(52:36):
this is Al needs to become a host in the program.
I think, I think it points to human frailty. I mean,
I think that's the key thing is human frailty is
the focus. You're gonna add some time? No, that's what
I was, yeah, exactly gonna say. What does CSB say? Uh,
like them off, like them off, yeah, yeah, and I
think sometimes before is a more literal way of saying
like is is sort of, so it might be an
example of the formal versus dynamic, but I think in

(52:57):
all the cases, even the context, clay houses, foundation is
the dust, crushed like a moth or before moth.
I think that's a poetic way to describe, and I
do think it's to describe how easily life can be extinguished.
That's kind of a context points us to that, uh,
but again, maybe in the larval stage even easier to
to to do that before being a moth. I'm, I'm
not sure that it's means specifically a larval stage, but

(53:20):
before and like are kind of different, more literal translations
versus dynamic translations, I think. But again, I must confess
I've never spent a lot of time in.
I was trying to figure out if um there's any
connection between when when it says, you know, their worm
never their worm never dies, you know, I don't think so.
I don't know but that's a good question. I mean, moth, Marvel,

(53:40):
I would say probably the plain reading is always the
best reading.
And it probably just means human frailty. So Dwayne is
thinking now that man, maybe we got to redo the
whole thing got shut down the Bible. shut down the
CSB says in the face of a moth is, you know,
in the face of a moth, I think is the
literal in it. I don't really understand that. Yeah, I
think it's poetic though. I think at the end of

(54:01):
the day, it's talking, it's from the speech in Job 4,
and he's basically saying, you know, no man is truly
pure before God. I mean, angels, so humans who are fragile.
And crushed easily and sinful, can't can't claim innocence around suffering.
I think that's the context, but it's one of those
things where

(54:21):
You know, English and and Hebrew don't always have the
cleanest line between the two. The translator is always a traitor, uh,
and it's a little hard to. But I think when
you've got 3 or 4 different translations and they're all
sort of saying, yeah, I, I think the other translations
are kind of giving a bit more clarity to 4
or 4.
And I think you can just safely say that that

(54:44):
it's the idea. It does sounds King James I was
gonna say before. What are you gonna say? No, I
was gonna say just reading context here because I'm not
as familiar with with Job before as I probably should be,
but
Uh, just reading in context here, if you go back
to 17, read down through 19, and when you get
to that last line, it seems like, uh, the author
is indicating a reflection upon something in the past. So,

(55:06):
you know, verse 17, can mankind be just before God?
Can man be pure, pure before his maker, but you
get down to 19 and he seems to be referencing
something before or something that would be an indicator of
something else. So like before, I prefer like, but I
certainly understand before.
Well, the great thing is tonight Ed is gonna actually
take a diversion into Job 4 and talk about the moths.

(55:28):
I am talking about the Babylonian captivity tonight. So Mariner's
church right, very good. Well, thank you everybody for tuning
in today, for watching us on Facebook, YouTube and Instagram.
We're gonna archive today's episode on
On Facebook and Spotify and Apple Podcasts and YouTube a
little bit later in case you want to hear it
again or share it with your friends, and then we

(55:49):
will be back tomorrow to talk to you about the
Bible in whichever translation you're reading. For, uh, Brian Broderson,
Ed Stetzer, Dwayne Ewers, and Lance Emma, I'm Brian Perez.
Thanks for listening to Pastor's Perspective.