Pastors' Perspective-10/22/25

Pastors' Perspective is a one-hour call-in program where listeners can call in and get answers to questions about the Bible, Christianity, family, and life. The program is live Monday through Friday from 3:00 PM - 4:00 PM Pacific. You can call 888-564-6173 to ask your questions.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:18):
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. My name is Brian
Perez and we are here live in the studio on
this Wednesday, the 22nd, and we would love to hear
from you. The phone number to call is
Oh, here I am. Sorry. You, I, you're really high, 80,
you were looking over there. I was pointing. Oh, I didn't.
I was looking in a different direction. So I was

(00:38):
looking at Brian Broders's Bible because I love that he's
ready to open the word of God and go 888
is our number 888-564-6173. Again, that's 888-564-6173 today.
I'm gonna hope we're gonna talk about miracles and Muslims. We,
we'll see how it goes. Sure, miracles, Muslims, if, uh,
you're a Muslim or you've had a miracle happen to you,

(00:59):
call us 888-564-6173, though I don't think that's the direction
but if you have, if you were a Muslim background
believer and you had a dream, well, we're gonna talk
about that. Yeah, I mean, it's kind of a thing.
So I just, I just want to get this out,
you know, right from the get-go, Ed, this is not
a CSB Bible, just so you know.
This is the this is the authorized version. That that's

(01:22):
the actual KJV 1611. No, it's the and KJ KJV
The NKJV. if you're gonna go KJV, go KJV. Don't
go NKJ. Yeah, true. I mean, just, just go thus
and does he spake he's unto the.
Now Chuck always pre Pastor Chuck Chapel goes to Mesa KJV, right? Well,

(01:45):
he did, he attempted to do that in KJV for
a few years. I think he did 2 or 3
years and then he just gave it up and he
said he wasn't really happy with the translation, which I
think the reality was he had been reading the same
Bible for 50 years and decided.
Switching over to a new version is that's a thing like,

(02:05):
like I have like I'm all memorized in the NASB.
So back in the day, and you know, how can
he if Psalm 1199, how can a young man keep
his way pure but by living according to your word
with all that don't let me don't let me wander
from thy commandments. It's enough, you know, it's NASB. I
get it. So I totally get it. I got a
nice little note from your friend Dwayne.
Who was here with us. It was a fun thing. Yes,

(02:28):
and you, he told me that he was leaving you
a study Bible that you were supposed to bring to me.
It wasn't really somewhere in your office or at your house.
He did not tell. I do have a study bible
for you. He did not tell me. He gave me
a few to give away to friends, and you are
my friend. OK, so I will bring all right well I.
I'm gonna give it to my wife who is your

(02:49):
friend too, and I think actually, and she loves the CSB.
She does, she loves the CSB and he offered to
give her the woman's study Bible, but she's like, I,
I don't want a woman. Why, why would I want
a woman's study Bible? I want the study Bible, the,
you know, it's OK to have a women's study, but
it was a men's study. There's like, but Cheryl is like,
you know, she's the one she wants she wants.

(03:11):
She knows how to cook. She knows how to do
all of that stuff. That's true. That's true. Wow, that's
not in. I'm pretty sure that's not in the CSB study.
So be good keepers at home. I think it might
be there in Titus. You never know. OK, I wanna
say something to you. Brian Perez was in here yesterday.
I forgot and I mentioned something to him, but I
wanna just go back to, we had a call yesterday

(03:33):
from a really, uh,
Just a wonderful listener, Doug, and Doug is uh LDS
and we had uh uh something came up where we
were talking about, um, LDS doctrine. And so Doug called
to ask a question and we had a really
I, I think it was a great conversation. I think
he appreciated it as well. So we, you know, we

(03:54):
kind of walked through the differences. Doug's, Doug's position is that,
you know, he is a Christian and, and he, uh,
many of his friends Mormons or folks do very clearly
say they're, they're, they're non-Trinitarian or non-Cre yeah, so we
got into some of, you know, like the nature of
God questions and things like that and
And I think in the end, just said, you know,

(04:15):
based on these, based on your view on these particular issues,
I think that, you know, you'd have to recognize that
we would recognize that you're outside of, of the Christian faith. Um,
but I wanted to say this if Doug's listening today,
I wanted to recommend, uh, that you go back, Doug,
we talked about a few different things yesterday, but I

(04:36):
would just recommend that you would read Hebrews chapter 1
through 8.
Because here's the thing that you're gonna see that.
I think could
could speak to you. Um, so within the LDS you
have two priesthoods. You have the priesthood of Aaron, and
you have the priesthood of Melchizedek.

(04:58):
The problem you're gonna find when you get into Hebrews
is that Hebrews addresses both of those priesthoods and tells
us that the priesthood of Aaron is obsolete. It no
longer exists. It went out of existence, and the priesthood
of Melchizedek belongs to one person and can't be transferred
to anyone else and that person is Jesus. So,

(05:21):
Um, I was thinking about that afterward, like, oh dang,
why didn't we talk about that? So I thought I'd
come back around. For me, the big issue is what
Jesus was, um, you know, was he, you know, because, because, uh,
excuse me, Mormons, uh, LDS they prefer to be called,
though they did spend like a $40 million ad campaign
saying I'm a Mormon and so now we're trying to

(05:41):
change that to remember LDS, um, you know, if Jesus was.
is um a created being, rather than eternally pre-existent with
the Father. There's never been a time when he was not,
and that's really what it boils down to. There's never
been a time when God the Son did not exist
eternally with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit.
But you know, I reminded him yesterday of Brigham Young's statement,

(06:03):
you know, as, as um as as as
What is that? I do it yesterday as um as man.
Um,
Uh, God, God is man will, I forget, as God
is man once was or no, has come anyway, so

(06:28):
I remember it, you know, I have Google. The Google
machine works. I do it perfectly. You as God is man.
Let's see. No, as God, God is, man may become. Yes, yes, right,
so we all, there's that. But the, but the idea
though is that God, there's another part of it. The
other part of it is the, is the key part,

(06:50):
the second part. The other part is that God once
was a man. So as God is now, man will
become as man as God is now.
OK, well, that's just great. Our phone number is 888-564-61.
Here it is. It's at the top. As man now

(07:10):
is God once was. Yes, and then as God is
man may become. Yes, that's it. As man now is,
God once was. So that's the problem because God, according
to scripture.
was never a man and he is eternal, and he cannot,
and that's the fundamental distinction between Christianity and uh what

(07:33):
we call sects. You know, I don't, I don't generally
refer to Mormons as a cult partly because that means
something sociologically, and I think our Mormon friends and neighbors.
Aren't, uh, generally brainwashed or things of that sort, right? So,
but I think of it as a different religion distinct
from Christianity because Christians believe that there never was a
time when God did not exist as God the Father,

(07:54):
God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. That's a
fundamental understanding of God across all Christian denominations. And there
is kind of a rebranding in the LDS, you know, I,
I
I, I was, I pointed this out and I made
a news story that the LDS local congregation stakes awards,
they were actually changing their, um, you know, they used
to have the the angel Moroni on like if you

(08:15):
go to Google Maps and you search for them, and
they were changing them to crosses, and it's kind of
part of a concerted effort to see uh LDS Mormonism
as a kind of a Christian denomination.
The their temples still have the angel. Yeah, I mean,
it would be amazing if they came over to the,
the biblical position and you think of, um, Worldwide Church

(08:36):
of God, Worldwide Church of God years ago. No, I was,
I was part of the conversation and the Armstrong and
his Armstrongian is, I don't know how you say that,
but the Herbert Armstrong stuff, uh, Plain Truth magazine, and
they are now Orthodox evangelicals. They're called Grace Communion International.
I did their national meeting, so just to see.
And they, by the way, they do say they were
once a cult, but they're using the term theologically. The

(08:57):
problem is most people don't have the nuance to know
there has been a theological and a theological cult. I
think it's better to say there were distinct religions outside
of Christianity, and, uh, and that's where the people get
upset when I, when I tweeted that recently, a lot
of Mormons got mad at me cause I I I'm
not saying they're not sincere. I'm just saying you can't
just say that you, for example, you can't be Muslim.

(09:19):
And say Muhammad's not the prophet. So I mean it's
kind of fundamental to what Christianity is. So yeah, anyway, OK, well.
Let's move on to Muslims and miracles. Muslim miracles. OK,
so first of all, hi, I'm Ed Stetzer, the dean
of the Talbot School of Theology at Biola University Bible University.
It is the B in biola at Biola University, and

(09:42):
I'm here with Brian Perez and Brian Broderson. We just
jumped in with the, you threw me off. we did
with the phone number. So we have which is uh 888.
I'd love to hear from you about.
Miracles. Have you seen Miracles? Has God done a miracle? 888.
You don't really do it this way. This is what
I do on my Saturday morning show here on cable.
I've heard it. 888-564-6173. And the reason we're talking about

(10:04):
miracles of Muslims is we have what's called the Holy
Spirit symposium, um, and the Holy Spirit symposium, yeah, you
you can just Google that, and yeah, put it up
on the Facebook page too, and
Um, and we actually have, uh, several speakers, probably Lee Strobel,
the most well-known coming in, he's coming in this, uh,
to speak on from his new book on miracles. Oh,

(10:24):
this starts tomorrow. It starts tomorrow, tomorrow night, so it's
kind of a two part to it, right? So, one
part of it is, we're actually examining the claims that
we're hearing from missionaries around the world, that Muslims are
having dreams and visions.
That are leading to them come to faith in Christ.
So we actually have contracted with the scholars connected to

(10:46):
Notre Dame. I'll be presenting that data on Friday. Uh,
we actually have, uh, Doctor Ibrahim, who's wrote the Christianity
Today Book of the Year on reaching Muslims, and, uh,
and so that starts tomorrow night, and
And and people could still sign up, um, and, and
then we have our whole Spirit symposium where we're looking

(11:06):
at kind of spirit-led movements, kind of analyzing, talking about
them as well, and, uh, and actually, uh, Wilfred Wilfred
is actually Wilfred Graves is actually on the line, so
Wilfred is the director of our
Well, there's a long title to it. We call it
the Holy Spirit Center. Wilfred, what's the, well, welcome Doctor
Wilfred Grace. He used to be with uh Wes Angeles
Church of God and will still is, but used to

(11:27):
be on staff there at Wes Angeles Church of God
and Christ, and now on our team. Wilford, thanks for
joining us on Pastor's Perspective.
I'm glad to be here. Uh, yes, the title of
the center is the Center for the Study of the
Work and Ministry of the Holy Spirit today. It's like
you need a two-sided business pretty much, you really do.
So we call it shorthand around the campus, but the

(11:48):
reason is, I do, do you know the laws?
Yes, we met, yeah, yeah. So, you know, they're with
the Lord now, but they, um, they wanted to create
a center at Viola, and so they, uh, so they
helped support the whole we call the Holy Spirit Center
for short because otherwise it takes 20 minutes to say the,
the name. But every year we do an academic symposium.

(12:09):
Last year we looked at, um, we had Craig Keener in,
looked at.
Uh, claims of healing and more. A couple of years
ago we did, uh, kind of a Jesus did. That's right.
You were there. That's right. So that was our first
Holy Spirit Center symposium, and we had fun. We, that
was a great, that was a great time. So, uh,
so that was, so this year, so Wilfred, tell us,

(12:30):
tell us what's going down in the next few days
at Biola University.
OK, yes, it's very exciting. We're gathering pastors and scholars, students,
and all other interested parties to explore how the Holy
Spirit empowers the church for mission today. So on Thursday,
as you mentioned, we're going to be focusing on the

(12:50):
Muslim world and how people are encountering Jesus through dreams
and visions and other.
Supernatural experiences. We're going to talk about apologetics and evangelism
and engagement with the Muslim community. Lee S Strobel is
going to highlight on Friday evening his book on the

(13:10):
supernatural angels and demons, mystical dreams, and he's going to
show how these phenomena can lead to a greater faith
in God.
And then on Saturday, a number of scholars are going
to be coming together to share stories of, of, of
how the Holy Spirit works through mission work, how he
empowers the artistic abilities of people, how he still works

(13:35):
miracles today, and how the church is growing in those
places where the Holy Spirit is given some kind of
focus and preeminence. Pretty cool. So we are very excited.
Yeah, that sounds great. It's a and you know, we,
we need that, we need um.
I, I was, uh, as a matter of fact, I
was talking to somebody yesterday, somebody in leadership, and they

(13:57):
kind of privately wrote me and said, hey, you know,
we've been doing this like prophetic prayer thing and there's
kind of some disagreement over whether we should do it
and so forth. And I said, you know what, we
need more Holy Spirit in our, you know, times together,
not less so.
And you know, people get kind of freaked out sometimes
because it can be a little messy, you know, people

(14:20):
do things, they're sort of learning as they go. I
remember one time years ago, a guy just blurted out
and what he thought was tongues, somebody had taught him
how to do it, and I thought, OK, well that
wasn't tongues, but I don't want to quench it, so
I'll wait till afterwards. And afterwards I said, hey, I said,
what did you do tonight? And he goes, oh, I
was speaking in tongues. I said,
Who told you that? He told me that these guys

(14:41):
taught him how to do it. I said, OK, well, listen,
we believe in tongues, but that wasn't it. So let's
help you. Let's help you to, you know, get the real. Well,
you know, payola and Talbot, you know, we're not a
Pentecostal school. Uh, you know, Vanguard in town is a
Pentecostal school, so somebody's we're for them. Uh, Wilfred's Pentecostal. He, uh,
the Church of God in Christ is a, uh, African

(15:01):
American Pentecostal denomination. We have Pentecostal faculty, but we also
have Presbyterian and Baptist and and Anglican.
And so, but what we're what we're looking at and
for is, is, uh, you know, let's let's test these things,
so we're gonna talk about these things. So, so for example, um,
when we talk about reaching Muslims, our theme's gonna be
reaching Muslims, but I gotta tell you, I'm giving you

(15:22):
a little preview and and folks can come, like this
is this is open to the community, and Wilfred's gonna
give us a discount for listeners on Kwave as well,
which we love. But um, but so we did this,
this research that I'm gonna present on Friday.
And, I mean, it's a consistent theme, like it's it's
really this white robed man, uh, now now again, you know,

(15:43):
we believe as evangelical Christians that that the gospel is
proclaimed by people. So, um, these stories align with that
where someone will say, and they'll seek out a Christian
and share the gospel with them and more.
And of course, you know, Lee Strobel is, is, you know,
I mean if the case for it probably it's, I
think it's the case for the super, you know, it's
the case for everything. Lee Strobel, the man has one

(16:03):
idea and he said he's capitalized.s amazing. He's a movie
about him. It's a movie about him, by the way,
Kyle Strobel is Lee's son. He leads our institute for
Spiritual formation. I don't know if he's been on the program,
but no, but I know Kyle.
Yeah, Kyle's great. But so here's a fun fact. Like
in the movie, you know, there's a little baby that
plays Kyle. It's a girl. So I just wanted to

(16:25):
say that Kyle, anyway, um, but so, so, so, so the, the,
this people can come, they, they can sign up online
if they Google, if they just search, uh, Holy Spirit symposium,
the word symposium and Holy Spirit's not used a lot.
So, and, uh, Wilfred, tell us how they would get, uh,
Krista was telling me that for Kwave listeners, we can,

(16:46):
we can do a uh discount. Tell us about that.
Yes. And, and so, uh, once again, please Google Holy
Spirit Symposium, and Bioola, right? And it'll pull it up
as the first hit. And once you do that, uh,
sign up, uh, for, um, the full conference without meals. OK.

(17:06):
And as you're signing up, use the code holly.
Spirit 50 and that will give you a 50% discount
on the conference Holy Spirit to any of the sessions.
So Holy Spirit 50 is the code that you'll enter,
and that means that the total price will only be $75. Yep.
And so it's a great conference and we've got, um,

(17:27):
we're really excited about it too because it's, you know,
we got this diverse line. We've got these Muslim, we
got a guy from Australia, um, we got these Muslim-oriented scholars,
you know, evangelical Christians reaching Muslims.
And we got um we got speakers who were just
talking about the conspirate-led movement, and then of course, you know,
I mean, Lee Strobel, who doesn't know the case for
Lee Strobel, that's what we should call it, the case
for Lee Strobel. Um, so, uh, so I wanna come

(17:50):
and and do that as well. Uh, before, before you go, Wilfred, uh,
tell us what you're doing there. You know, Byola University
is this vibrant Christian evangelical school, deeply committed to the gospel,
seeing great things, people are being
You know, being trained and equipped, we love what God's doing,
you know, Talbot's a growing seminary as part of that
as well. Wilfred, what is your role there and what
do you do at the Holy Spirit Center in addition

(18:13):
to planning amazing conferences?
Yes, thank you for that space. So I'm Wilfred Graves,
and I serve once again as the director for the
Center of the Study of the Holy of the work
and ministry of the Holy Spirit today.
I'm also a teaching pastor. My academic work sort of
focuses on the intersection of theology, history, and spiritual experience,

(18:35):
but the center itself, its purpose is to help the
church think deeply and live faithfully concerning the person and
work of the Holy Spirit. So we do this through
scholarship and teaching and opportunities for spiritual formation.
including events like the symposium, but also there's a Friday
Reflections podcast. We have a waiting room, which is a

(18:58):
time of waiting on God in prayer, but our goal
is to encourage pastors and students and believers everywhere to
understand and to embrace the spirit's presence in ways that
are biblically grounded, the
Logically sound and practically transformative. In a nutshell, that's who
we are. I love that. I love that. That's great.

(19:18):
That's fantastic. Are you a Pentecostal? Are you Brian Bro?
Are you a Pentecostal? Well, you know, this is the
thing I was just thinking, and you, you know, you
mentioned Viola. We're in a Pentecostal school. Well, we're an
evangelical school with Pentecostals, but the fact is you can
be a
Continuationist believing that the, the spirit is still working today,
I am, yes, which I am too, but I've never

(19:40):
identified as a Pentecostal, but I believe in the prophetic gifts.
I believe in healing. I believe in tongues. So but
did Chuck, did Chuck classify himself as a Penteco, you know,
he went to Life Pacific at a Pentecos. I think
once he left the Four Square.
I don't think he identified as a Pentecostal. I think

(20:01):
he just, I think Chuck wanted to identify more just as, uh,
you know, he not as an evangelical either. He never
really used that was, you know, in regard to and
not as a charismatic either, because that would be that
feels like Calver Chapel is more of a charismatic, but
kind of a charismatic, you know what, I have decided
because I've been studying Methodism. We are Methodist. I mean,
that's basically we are.

(20:21):
You're not Charles Wesley. Well, Calvary historically has been. I
just remember seeing this book, neither Calvinism nor, but when
you really look at what Wesley believed and taught, you realize, OK,
this is kind of that way. I, I think that's great,
and I would say that at Viola, which is, you know, this,
you know, very deeply biblically rooted school, we recognize that

(20:43):
Wesleyans and Presbyterians and Baptist.
and Pentecostals have come to some different conclusions, not on
the fundamentals, but on some different conclusions. Well, you look
at the founders of Biola. I mean, these guys were
all over talking about the oratory Baptism Holy Spirit was
a whole conversation and, and it's, it's kind of fascinating. So, so,
but Wilfred, we appreciate it and again, you can go

(21:04):
to Holy Google Hole Spirit symposium at Bioola. Wilfred, you're
speaking as well, aren't you? What are, what are you
gonna speak on?
When you're there, yes, so I'm gonna do sort of a, uh, uh, uh,
a plenary session that, that wraps up, um, everything, um, that,
that we have done. So what are some of the,
the lessons learned?

(21:25):
Um, uh, then I'll delve into a little bit of
my own historical research on Christian supernaturalism to kind of
reflect on how we can remain theologically open and spiritually
discerning toward the spirit's ongoing activity in the world. Love it.
So we need folks to come on out.
Uh, we'd love to see you on campus. I'm gonna

(21:45):
be there for the entire time. We've got some amazing
scholars again, Holy Spirit Symposium Biola. Why don't, can we
put on the Facebook page what he said, how to
get that discount? Yeah, well, uh, yes, we can. The,
the coupon code is Holy Spirit 50.
And I assume that's the number 50, not the word, 50.
All right. And Holy Spirit, all one word. So no spaces,

(22:06):
just Holy Spirit 50 coupon code. I would love to see, uh,
Kwave listeners there. And again, this is uh this is
a discount for you, uh, and so we'd love to
see and connect and talk about some of these things
because again, I think it's, I think one of the
things that's happened in the last few years, I mean,
there are exceptions to this, there are cessationists and you know,
they're pretty aggressive sensationists sometimes. They believe the gifts of
Toyber have

(22:27):
Not all of them, but the signed gifts have ceased. Um,
but I do think that when we look at kind
of where things have gone today, the continuationist approach is
sort of won the day that all the gifts are here.
The question is how we practice them and, and yeah, it,
it seems that to me too. It seems that, you know,
the cessationist, I mean, let's just be honest, John MacArthur.
he, he was the he would be the champion. I mean,

(22:49):
I think probably the most influential cessationist in the last
few years. So I think there, there are obviously there
are people who have followed his lead in that, but
I do think that things have shifted over the years
and I think partly because, you know, John's, uh, John MacArthur's, um, conference,
I think it was an attempt to say, hey, the

(23:10):
world's kind of become continuationist. Let's, which kind of speaks
to the fact that it.
That it has, you know, so like, like Baptists, you know,
and I would say they, they tend to be, or Presbyterians,
they tend to be cautious, they're not Pentecostals, right?
So, where, you know, traditional Pentecostalism believes that the baptism
of the Holy Spirit is a subsequent experience of grace

(23:31):
after conversion with the initial physical evidence. So that's what,
you know, the assemblies of God believes, Church of God
and Christ believes, um, whereas, you know, there's this huge
middle ground where I think Calvary Chapel is. Now what's interesting,
you're all cousins with the vineyard.
And the Hope Chapel movement, you know, back to Donald
Miller's book Reinventing American Protestantism. And of the three, you

(23:53):
are the least charismatic of the three.
Yeah, but you believe in all the gifts of the
Holy Spirit. You believe in divine healing, um, sign gifts too,
speaking in tongues, because that's one of the questions I
saw on the board there as well. Well, well, we're gonna,
we're gonna look at these things and we're gonna examine claims,
and it's gonna be a great gathering. So thanks for
letting me talk a little bit about it. Go Google
Holy Spirit symposium, biola.

(24:15):
And Wilfred, thanks for taking the time to, uh, join us.
I look forward to seeing you tomorrow when we launch
we're actually starting with uh with Doctor Ibrahim, who's gonna
talk about, uh, dreams and visions related to Muslims. He's
a professor at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky, and,
and then we're gonna finish, I think the final speaker.
I think you're the final speaker, Doctor Graves. So I'm

(24:35):
the final, final speaker, but a lot in between, in between.
So come on, folks, we'd love to have you and
thanks for taking the time to be with us, Doctor Graves. Yep,
and once again that coupon code is Holy Spirit 50,
and that is for the full conference meals not included.
So, uh, make sure you select the right one because there's, uh,
5 different options there. So full conference meals not included.

(24:56):
Holy Spirit 50 is your coupon code. Wonderful. All right,
Doctor Graves, thank you for joining us today here at
the opening of Pastor's Perspective, and, uh, Doctor Graves is
from the Center for the Study of the work. I'll
conclude on the second half of the program. He was telling, yes,
he's got it down. I, I call the Holy Spirit
Center much to probably his chagrin, but, uh.

(25:20):
Yeah, it's just because it's so long, but it's actually
got a sign and everything administers we administer to students.
That sign must be huge. Well, it's a little print.
It's a little font. Oh, OK, got it. All right, let's, uh,
talk to you folks now. What do you want to
talk about today? 888-564-6173 E.
Ed, Ed 5646173 wink wink. I don't see what I

(25:41):
did Ed Ed. Your name is Ed. 888 E E E.
Comedy is hard. Comedy is hard. You stick to being
a radio host. Jennifer in New Jersey watching us on YouTube. Hi,
thanks for calling in today.
Hey, good afternoon, pastors and Brian.
Thank you for taking my call, and I just want

(26:03):
to say first I enjoy the comedy. It's really it's
my day. Take that, Ed. There you go. Come on, baby.
We like that. That's why we have that on. It's
only for the common. The dean and the dean of
the Talbot School of Theology, the 3rd largest multi-denomination in
the world, and I'm here for the comedy. You're here
for the comedy, Ed Jester. There you go, Jennifer, please
go right ahead. I just gave a fist bump to

(26:24):
Brian Broderson when you said that though.
OK, I'll try to make it quick, but um just
to give some context, about 2 months ago, I prayed
about something very personal and asked God for confirmation using
the name Barnabas, a name I rarely ever hear or see.
And then around 15 minutes later, I started doing my
Bible study homework.

(26:45):
And we had just finished the book of John and
we're beginning Acts, which I hadn't read in a long time.
So when I opened Acts, I came across the name
Barnabas Barnabas almost immediately, and I later realized that was
the very first time Barnabas is mentioned in Scripture. And
what stood out to me even more was that.
described him as the encourager, so that moment really struck

(27:08):
me because it felt like a direct response to my prayer.
Then not long after that something else happened and that
also felt like confirmation, almost like a second reminder from God.
So my question is, how can I tell whether that
was truly God answering me or just a coincidence?
Right,
So do you, do you feel like, I mean, you,

(27:30):
you mentioned something about Barnabas, and then you opened up
an ax and there was Barnabas's name. Um, were you,
were you looking, I mean, were you specifically asking God
for yeah, how did the name Barnabas come come up
for you? How does it connect with what you're wondering
if God's speaking to you?
Because I just remember hearing that word Barnabas. It was

(27:54):
like somebody's dog, and so yeah, that's my dog. Your
dog is Barnabas. Sorry, Jennifer, that threw me off right there.
Who names their dog Barnabas? Cheryl. He's Cheryl. That's fair enough,
fair enough. Sorry. He's the son of consolation, OK.
Yeah, and, and, and that was a while ago that
I heard that name, but I don't, I rarely hear
it and see it. So like I'm finishing the book

(28:16):
of John, and then I said, oh, I'm just gonna
start ahead of everybody and just start reading the book
of Acts because it's, you know, and I haven't read
Acts in a very long time. The only thing I
remember from Acts was, was Peter being, um, you know,
free from prison.
And um, so that I wasn't looking intentionally. I thought
I was gonna like hear the name Barnabas on TV

(28:39):
or see a, you know, something with the sign. I wasn't,
I was just like, you know, going naturally, like genuinely
reading Acts, and then all of a sudden it was
like 15 minutes later after I said that prayer and
I wrote it down and I was like, oh wow,
this is, I, I see it right away, Barnabas. That
was so fast. And then I found out that's the
first time it was ever mentioned in scripture. Yeah.

(29:01):
Well, to answer your question, um,
I, I think you can safely.
Just embrace it as, you know, God spoke something to
me at this moment. I, you know, you know the
details of what it might imply, but I think we
need to be more sensitive when it comes to things

(29:21):
like that. I mean, you know, there's a place to
be cautious to some people read stuff into scripture that
isn't there and then go out and
You know, maybe apply things that they shouldn't have applied.
So we don't want to do that, but we don't
want to go to the other place either where we're
just reading our Bibles and OK, I read that chapter
and now I'm done and I head out the door
and that's it. We want to be open to God

(29:44):
speaking to us and especially if we're asking them specific things.
So I would say just receive it as from the
Lord and go from there. Amen.
We'll be back on Pastor's Perspective with Brian Broderson and
Ed Stetzer, 888-564-6173 is the number. Give us a call.
We're here till 4 o'clock.

(30:14):
We're back on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is the number to
call today. We're gonna be in the studio for about
25 more minutes, and we would love to hear from you.
If you're watching on Facebook, YouTube, or Instagram, you can
call in too. The number's right there on the bottom
of the screen. This is live on Insta too. Insta too.
You guys are cool. Yeah, yeah. All the cool kids
are on Insta. That's right. And we got to do

(30:36):
TikTok when we do our fancy dance. He is, for
those of you listening on radio, he's literally dancing, and
I'm deeply disturbed by this.
I don't know what you should be, because if you
call that dancing, waving inappropriately, you know, that's why Baptists,
you know, can't, can't, uh, you know, start dan singing
too much because it might be dancing. I don't go
to not work. I was really trying to make a

(30:57):
joke out of that, and I stumbled through that joke.
Try it again. Take two. I don't even know. No,
I can't. I'm gonna move on from that and.
Just look at Brian Broderson and smile and say, our
phone number. How come they don't want to talk about miracles?
I told them to call in. I want to talk
about miracles. Like, do you believe in miracles? Do you
see miracles? I had Mark Matterson on the program this Saturday.
He's got a new book, A Million Little Miracles, and

(31:19):
he was kind of making the case that, man, we
need to see more of the miracles day to day, like, uh,
you know, like the fact that we're not spinning off
the earth or the fact, you know, and all that
kind of stuff and.
And I was kind of, I pushed back a little bit.
I'm like, I, isn't the definition of a miracle something
that doesn't happen all the time, or else then, you know,
we just call it Thursday, not a miracle. It's just
that's Thursday. That happens on Thursdays. So I don't know.

(31:41):
I think I'm, that's what, so Lee Strobel, when he got,
he's bringing some examples of his reporter-like mind, and I
wanna know. I want examples and I want like more
than just I heard somebody who heard somebody who heard
somebody have a miraculous experience. So you can call in 888.
You, you can call him whatever you want, I guess.
It's your show 888-564-6173. But when you say you're looking

(32:05):
for miracles, you don't mean it in a way like
you're looking for a sign, you're looking for, that's what
I mean, that's what I think there's common grace. I
think there's God's providence. I think he's, you know, holding
it all together.
So you could call that and Mark makes the case,
and you know, Mark's Mark's a way better writer than
I am, as you know, he's been a New York
Times bestseller. I was my mom's bestseller because she bought

(32:25):
all my books, so I appreciate that, Mom. More books
by any other authors who bought from me. Um, but, um,
but yeah, so I would say for me, and this
is why, you know, we're investigating some of these claims, right? So,
you know, Strobel we'll talk about.
Do we have evidence of miracles? Because I gotta say,
I hope, I hope I don't think any of you disagree.
I think there's a lot of fake claims of miracles.

(32:47):
We see them from some of these way out there
TV evangelists and more, but are there real miraculous things?
What are your thoughts? 888-564-617. I'll tell you a crazy
quick story. So years and years ago there was a
guy in my church, and he had, he was a
young guy with debilitating arthritis, like, like, you know, he's
in his twenties and the doctors basically said.

(33:09):
By the time you reach your 30s, you will be
in bed for the rest of your life. You won't
be able to walk or anything. And so he had this, uh,
this is crazy cause he cause he had this guy
that he worked with that was a pretty radical Pentecostal
type of a guy, and they would always debate back
and forth about, you know, tongues and the gifts and
all of this kind of stuff. And one day this

(33:30):
guy walked by him, tapped him on the shoulder and said,
receive your healing.
He was instantly and totally healed. See, that's a miracle.
That's not like, but that didn't happen every Thursday. I know. But,
and it, the crazy thing is that the guy that
did it, I mean, you know, the, the miracle came through,
the power did it, but, but the guy was kind
of crazy. We'd go, wait, wait, no, he's too, right, right,

(33:53):
he's not. If you're gonna have a healing, we'd rather
it not be from the really loony person. But you know, exactly,
but God works through. So in your ministry, say last decade,
how many miracles have you seen?
In the last decade, uh, very few, but in my, yeah,
I mean, I have, I have had experiences over the
years where I have seen people who were literally minutes

(34:16):
from death be completely. I saw, I prayed for one time,
not just me, but a group has prayed for a
blind person who saw, but I remember that because that
was a miracle. Yeah, yeah, I prayed for a person
who basically they're just like, could you just pray for
him because he's gonna die like in 3 minutes.
I grabbed him by the foot. He's in a hospital bed.
I prayed over him and I laughed. Never heard another thing.

(34:38):
A month later, he showed up at church. He's like,
do you remember me? I'm like, No, who are you?
He said,
Well, I was in a hospital bed dying and you
prayed for me. Wow. I clearly didn't have enough faith.
You left the room. You should have stayed there for.
I had no sense of anything. So here's the thing
for me that why I think miracles are unusual, but

(35:01):
by their definition is I bet you and I have
prayed for more people to be healed who weren't healed,
who died or someone else. So a miracle to me
is when God intervenes.
In a supernatural miraculous way, which again is the whole
least least trouble is gonna talk about this, but others
as well, like, is God intervening a miraculous way to
Muslims through dreams and visions. So yes, I think so too.

(35:24):
I mean, I think the data, like I'm not supposed
to say until Friday because we got this whole research project,
but you can join us, you know.
And cats cats out of the, but I do think though, but,
but when we actually talked to, so we didn't just
talk to like assemblies of God missionaries, so you kind
of expect maybe to be a little more open to that,
like the Presbyterians who, I'm not saying all Presbyterians, but
the Baptists who tend to be a little less that focused.

(35:46):
So I do think, and, and Strobel's not a Pentecostal,
but he's writing on miracles. So, so, but I do
think that seeing.
God works supernatural ways, gives us, I mean, we're still
talking about God worked in our faith has been built
by that, and I continue to pray, according to James
chapter 5, you know, we have a prayer, we have
a prayer for healing every week at Mariner's Church. We
have a room for our elders to lay on and, and,

(36:08):
and I'm guessing anyone who asks, you would as well.
It's because we, we want to pray in obedience and
then trust God for the miracles. And if it doesn't
see the miraculous, we trust God through it.
All right, we do have some calls coming in on miracles,
but first, let's talk to Patrice in Beaumont. What are
your questions for us today, Patrice?
Yes, good afternoon, gentlemen. Thank you for taking my call. Uh,

(36:31):
I'll ask the questions and then, uh, I'll just listen. Um, I'm,
I'm a Christian. I accepted the Lord a long time
ago in my life, um.
One question is, I've been able to travel the world.
I'm a worship leader at my church. I, I've always
been a worship leader and I, but I've traveled the world.

(36:53):
Professionally singing um secular, I've traveled with a group called
the Fifth Dimension. I don't know if you know who
that is. Oh you mention. Who doesn't know back, back up, Patrice. You're,
you traveled with the 5th dimension. That's crazy. OK, sorry.
So you know the Age of Aquarius, the 5th dimension,
Marilyn McCoo and Billy Davis Jr. Billy Billy and Marilyn

(37:17):
and Florence LaRoux. Yes, I was blessed to be with
them for 18 years.
Wow, unbelievable. And doing, and doing that, that, that, that
was of course a dream come true because I come
from a singing family and I wanted to be a
professionally and God opened that door. But also I've been
able to sing for a living doing lounges and love

(37:38):
songs and but I, my question is, I was told
if I sing songs that did not glorify God, that
I would not make it into heaven.
That was that's that's one question that I have. Yeah,
let me just say I found Patrice online. Like she's
in the article about the 5th dimension. You found her.
Oh yeah, I'm not gonna say her last name, but
she's right there in the members. You're not gonna say
her last name, but you're gonna tell everybody how to

(37:59):
find her last name. Well, she told us she, she
can reveal what she was reveal. So how do you
answer that question? Will, uh, Patrice miss heaven for singing
secular music.
Yeah.
Absolutely not. I, I mean, obviously there's some secular music
that we would rather have people not singing, but there's,

(38:23):
there's so much wonderful music, um, out there and
There are many Christians who are also artists who who
sing and so then they're Christians, yeah. I mean, you know, you,
you miss heaven if you reject Jesus. That's that's how
you miss heaven. If you receive Jesus and follow Jesus,

(38:45):
that's how you get to heaven. Yeah, let's be clear
for everyone listening, in addition with Patrice, if you are
a follower of Jesus, you've received by grace and through
faith the good news of the gospel. Jesus calls up
being born again, you've confessed your sin.
You've trusted and followed him, you've received the new life
he offers, then you won't miss him. That is how
we begin a new life that lasts for eternity. So,

(39:08):
singing in a secular band, um, you know, uh, being
a radio host like Brian Perez, I mean, there are
choices you make that that are right choices and bad choices,
but that's not a question of your eternal destiny. What
are your other two questions, Patrice, because we want to
hear some of these miracles that are calling in.
My next, my next question is, I'm a part of

(39:28):
a sorority in college. I joined my sorority and I
was told because I took an oath, I will miss heaven.
And then, let me ask my third question. I heard
a pastor said that um the question was, uh, are
you forced to take the mark of the beast? And his,
his answer was, you're not forced, but Christians.

(39:52):
Uh, will be left because we didn't do exactly what
was required and we will have to take the mark
of the beast in order to get into heaven. So
those are my last two questions. Pastor Brian.
OK, no, I.
We, OK, the mark of the beast, #1 is not here.

(40:16):
It will come in the future at some point, but
it will be something that um I, I don't think
anybody's gonna take it, not knowing.
To some extent, what they're doing, I think, I think
everybody's gonna, it's not an accident. It is a sign
of allegiance, yeah, it's a, it's a willful commitment of

(40:36):
yourself to this person that it's gonna, you know, come and,
and implement this. So, so I, for one, you don't
even have to think or worry about it right now
because it's not, this is not the time of the
mark of the beast. You know, people have said all
kinds of different things like, oh, you know, if you, um,
Uh, you know, back when the credit cards are coming out,

(40:56):
all the credit card could be the mark of the beast,
and then, you know, something else comes out where you
don't have to use a credit card and all, that's
the mark of the beast right there. So, you know,
these things might be pointing us toward that kind of
technology and stuff someday, but the idea that it's here
right now and we need to be concerned about it,

(41:17):
we don't. All we need to be concerned about right
now is just simply following Jesus, like Ed said.
And I think Patrice, the whoever's kind of, you know,
saying these things to you, you probably want to get
a better resource to help you in your growth as
a Christian than some of the stuff that that you're

(41:38):
hearing because it's not accurate and it's obviously not helpful.
And did we answer her question about the sorority?
I would say that the answers to the first, the
same answer as the singing one. I think, um, now
I think what she said in there was not just
a sorority, but there's an oath thing. So sometimes sororities
or societies have oaths, which I don't think is particularly helpful,
depends on the oath, like depends on the oath. What

(41:59):
are you swearing to, uh, but yeah, I think, I
think your path to heaven, uh, comes through the death
of Jesus on the cross for your sin and in
your place and not through what you're sing or what
sorority you're part of.
Very good. All right, 885 like you said, Ed, I
don't think if we're taking oaths, we want to think about.
Do I really wanna take this? Yeah, totally, totally. And

(42:21):
sorority oaths, you know, they tend not to be some
of the oaths. Like when you get to some of
these like secret fraternal societies, the oaths are a little,
you know, concerning, much more concerning, because I don't know
the oath, but I would say in general, uh, honor
the Lord of what you do, try to honor the Lord,
be the best singer. My, my daughter's a singer. She's a,
she sings opera, and then I gotta tell you, you know,
opera sounds, doesn't sound very worldly until you know what

(42:44):
they're saying in Italian.
And like she's like, well, I gotta figure this out. So,
so what I would say is honor the Lord in
in in what you do and and trust the Lord,
you know, First John 1:9 says if we confess our sins,
he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Nice. All right, so
let's go to the phones now. I would say Janine Fontana,

(43:04):
give you like 3 minutes. Go ahead. What is your miracle?
Hi, OK, um, well, I was asleep and this man
appeared to me and he took me out of my
room into the sky, and I could see the night
and then a roof came off of this building and
I could see inside of a bar and I could
see a couple standing and then I woke up and

(43:27):
I was trying to figure out if I'm supposed to
go to some bar because I didn't have enough information,
so I prayed on it and talked to some friends
and then a couple of days later,
I was waking up in the morning and this woman
appeared to me and she told me the name of
the bar. She told me what time to go there,
what street it was located on and who to ask for.

(43:47):
And she told me to share my faith and so
I asked my sister, and she took me to the
bar and I went inside and asked to speak to
the man's name.
And um he was there and I asked him, I
introduced myself and we went and sat at a table
and I just shared the gospel with him and he

(44:08):
gave his life to Christ and he was crying and
everything and that was my miracle. Wow, wow. I mean,
Larry Toms years ago wrote a book called Divine Appointments,
and he kind of recounted some of those kind that's
a very specific thing though as well. So I love those.
Yeah those are great. Yeah, I've had like 2 or
3 occasions when

(44:29):
I don't know how to put it. The Lord just,
I mean, not to that level of specificity, but the
Lord impressed on me that I was supposed to talk
to some person, and that was really just weird for
me to talk to that person. And, uh, and just
the Lord honored it. Now I will tell you this
a couple of times when I felt the Lord told
me to talk to some person it went really badly,
but more often than not when I follow that, you know,
the Lord's at work in that. But you know, when

(44:50):
you get to heaven, those people are gonna come up
and you know that, you know, that awkward moment we
had on earth, it actually.
That's why I'm here. But how many people, myself included,
would have a dream like this and just, no, that
can't be the Lord. The Lord would not want me to, no, no,
I can share this and I've shared it before on

(45:12):
this program that years ago, uh, you know how the
Lord always wakes people up at 3 in the morning.
You always hear those stories of the Lord woke me
up at 3 in the morning. So, um, I felt
like the Lord, like this, you know, pray for a
certain person, right?
And I was like 3 in the morning, I'm like
half asleep or 3 quarters asleep, and I'm like, that can't, no,

(45:33):
that's weird. Here I am hoping that one day as
a good Christian man, that one day I'll experience went
back to sleep. A few days later, I'm talking to
my one of one of my coworkers here at Kwave.
She tells me the weirdest thing happened to me. The
Lord woke me up at 3 in the morning and
asked me to pray for this person, mutual acquaintance.

(45:54):
And I thought the same person that that I was, yeah,
so then all these thoughts started going through my mind
like did the Lord wake me up and I didn't
wake up, so he woke her up, or did he
wake a bunch of people up at the same time?
I don't know. So it was just one of those
things like what in the world just happened? Well, I think,
I think in general.
We need to recognize, we need to be just more

(46:14):
aware that there's more to the natural world. And so,
you know, when we look kind of one of the
things we're gonna talk about at the at the uh
kind of the Muslim part, I don't know I don't
know this is the right term because it's not the
Muslim part. I's gonna start talking about biola and Islam
or something, but it's apologetics to Muslims. And um one
of the things that we're talking about so in most cultures,

(46:36):
there's like the fact that that she had a dream
or the fact that you have this nudge to pray.
Like, it's widely accepted in other cultures. Um, and it's
only the secular West of the last few 100 years.
So we're going through, like on my, my talk on Friday,
which I hope people will come to, it's, I actually
talk about some of the history. We actually have a
a scholar, uh, Roy McCoy, that mentioned he's connected with

(46:57):
Notre Dame, evangelical Christian, and, and like he helps unpack this,
we're gonna unpack this together, and it's really fascinating that
around the world, people are just expecting
God to do surprising things and I think for us
it's surprising when God does surprising things around the world.
It's not surprising that God does surprising things. So got

(47:19):
another call here, Amy. I'll give you about 2.5 minutes
in Laguna Niguel, what did you want to share?
OK. Well, the first miracle is that my name is
written in the lambs. Come on. Amen, Amy.
And, um, you know, to see people that I prayed for.
Give their lives to Christ. Seek the Lord first. Excuse me. Um,

(47:44):
but this past June, I went on a mission trip
to Kenya with my church, and, uh, we are in
a really hostile, um, Muslim territory, you know, the women,
we were all covered going in, and it was kind
of like children of the corn vibe.
And, uh, we were walking through and we're just like, hey,

(48:04):
does anyone need prayer for anything? Does anyone need prayer
for healing? And, and one of the young moms, you know,
invited us into her hut, and, uh, she said, I
can't leave my house. I, I, I can't see. I, I,
I only know my house and my familiar surroundings. And
um

(48:24):
We prayed for her and praised God, um, she was healed.
She was healed. She said, you know, and we brought,
we brought like reading glasses with us and I, I'm
thinking like God might have maybe healed her or maybe,
you know, I, me of unbelief, but the Lord healed
her miraculously and they're still going.

(48:46):
strong there they started a Bible study at her house
to bring light into the village, but you know, I've
seen God do so many miracles, but especially when you
go on a mission trip, that's comfort zone, and I
don't know why it is when you go to another country, but, um.
Those people you guys were just talking about that those

(49:07):
people have faith. Yep, yep. I think, I think when
you go to another country, you often go to places
where they expect and have faith for the supernatural, maybe
more than we do in the secular West. Yep, Amy,
thank you for your phone call. Now let's go to
Judy and Riverside. Hey there, Judy.
Got a couple of minutes. Hi, um, I wanted to
call in and ask a question. I read the book

(49:27):
um about Muslims dreaming, um, about Jesus and having the
dreams and then um changing their lives. I'm um married to,
I'm Christian. I teach Bible class to little children twice
a week, but I, um, my husband
He is Muslim, and I, so, and we've been married
30 years. He's the most wonderful person ever, ever, and

(49:49):
he's sweet and kind and he lets me go to
church and he does all the things, and he goes
to the mosque on Fridays. But um after I read
that book, I was wondering, should I be praying over
my husband to have a dream about Jesus or is
that
I should just pray my regular prayers that that he'll
come to the Lord some way, but I don't know
if I should like direct my prayers exactly to that request. Yeah,

(50:13):
it's a great question, Judy, and this is and I
love that you're asking this. I love that you love
your husband and I love that you uh desire for
him to come to the Lord, you know, one of
the reasons we're even doing this gathering at Bioola is
I'm I'm actually hoping to launch a whole initiative around
reaching Muslims, uh, both locally and globally and working towards that,
and I think I think we're pretty close to being
able to pull that together.
Um, I would say that first of all, Judy, you know,

(50:35):
a lot of Muslims around the world are coming to
faith in Christ, like in Iran and other places, Bangladesh, uh,
there's some amazing things going on. Uh, I would say
that typically the dream scenario, uh, is probably not something
necessary to pray for, but if the Lord chooses to
use that, cause I don't, I don't want to get
you just kind of one, Lord, I gotta pray for him,

(50:56):
not this is what you're saying, but
Uh, I need to have him to have a dream. Um, you,
I mean, the scripture talks about you're gonna win him
by your lifestyle, you're gonna share the gospel with him. Um,
but becoming from a Muslim, becoming a Muslim, becoming a Christian, it's,
it's a very big shift in family and culture and more.
So what I would just say is love him as

(51:18):
the best wife you can be, pray for him, uh,
you know, when the time is right, you invite him.
You know, I, I just recently in Oxford where I
teach evangelism, and I had the privilege of talking to
a a Muslim Afghani Muslim cab driver, and it was
in December, and he was like, yeah, I'm gonna come to,
I'm gonna come to Christmas services, so Muslims are often

(51:38):
open to those kinds of moments, you know, as you're
coming up to and we're not far from Christmas, we're
a couple of months away, but to invite him.
To come to Christmas with you, and to just be
open to those Holy Spirits promptings, but I would pray
more specifically just for for the Holy Spirit to draw
him to Christ, and for him to trust and follow Jesus,
rather than for a specific thing, and if it come

(51:59):
if a dreaming vision comes, great, uh, but that would
be my advice.
Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I think you, I, it sounds
like God's already at work in a beautiful way with
you and your husband and just keep it up and I, I,
you know,
That we, you know, Pastor Chuck Smith used to talk
about direct prayers or direction prayers. A direct prayer is God,

(52:26):
would you just, you know, please save my husband. A
direction prayer is God. Would you save my husband? And
here's a way that you could do it. It would
be amazing if you gave him a vision or, you know,
something like that. That's good. So I think we just
realized like, hey, God knows God knows how to save him.
If it's through a vision, amazing, yeah, but I would
say just biblically, the most likely scenario is gonna be

(52:47):
through his wife. Yeah, exactly. And I think, um, a lot, uh,
I think probably the majority of the vision, uh, things
are happening in really deep.
Islamic cultures where people do not have access to other
means of hearing that. Yeah, for sure, and super connected

(53:10):
to this historic, I mean, if you look back in
the first few centuries of Islam, this dream state was
kind of a major, major, major thing. My guess is
if he's married and and you're you're out there in
the inland empire, my guess is that he may be
a bit more Americanized and so, uh, but again, let
me just say again my this 1st, 1st period 31.
Talking about, um, you know, husbands who don't know the Lord,

(53:32):
that they may be won over without words by the
behavior of their wives, uh, one over, and then the
gospel still requires words. We share the good news of
the gospel. Uh, we invite people to respond by grace
and through faith, but, uh, but man, I, what a,
what a, what a joy to receive a call like Judy's. Oh,
for sure, and I think we have time for one
more miracle. Sandy and Harupa Valley, can you do it
in 90 seconds? Come on, Sandy.

(53:53):
Yes, I am, uh, from Parupa Valley and, uh, when
my husband and I got married, of course, we got
married in July when it's like the hottest. We went
to Texas to visit a friend and we had so
much junk in the car, and we got a flat
tire in the middle of, I don't know where in Texas,
and it was really, really hot, like 180.

(54:16):
And when my husband got out of the car, when
my husband got out of the car, a cloud came
over the top of us and stayed the whole time
we unloaded the car to get the tire. Well, he
fixed the tire and when, uh, he was done and
we put everything away, the car, the cloud went away.

(54:36):
Love it. I, I immediately said that was, that was God.
Hi honey. Yeah. OK, she's agreeing with her husband right there, Sandy,
thank you for your call. One last time, Holy Spirit symposium,
Biola would love for people to come. It starts tomorrow night,
but you can come Friday all day. You can come Saturday,
the least Troubles Friday night. We'd love to have you

(54:57):
on campus. Go to the website Holy Spirit Symposium Biola.
Thanks for letting me share that. Yep, of course. And that, uh,
coupon code that you can use to get, I think
it's 50% off, off on the, uh, full registration without meals.
It's the one that's 15.
dollars, uh, it's knock it down to $75 and the
code you need is Holy Spirit 50. No spaces, no dashes,

(55:20):
no periods, nothing like that. Holy Spirit 50 is the
coupon code at biola.edu or the quickest way, like Ed said,
is just do a search on Google for Holy Spirit
symposium Biola, and that'll take you right to the page.
All right, we are done on today's episode, a Wednesday
edition of Miracle Monday. How's that? We, we got to

(55:42):
do this more often. That was great. But, uh, good
to hear from you guys. If we didn't get to
your call today, we will be here tomorrow between 3
and 40 p.m. Pacific time for Brian Broderson and Ed Stetzer.
I'm Brian Perez. Thanks for listening and watching Pastor's Perspective.