November 26, 2025 • 56 mins
Pastors' Perspective is a one-hour call-in program where listeners can call in and get answers to questions about the Bible, Christianity, family, and life. The program is live Monday through Friday from 3:00 PM - 4:00 PM Pacific. You can call 888-564-6173 to ask your questions.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez.
It is the day before Thanksgiving and all through the house,
it smells really good, I can imagine. We've got Brian
and Cheryl Broderson here from uh Echoesof Mercy.com. They will
be answering the questions you have about the Bible, the
Christian faith, just about anything that's on your mind. We
(00:36):
will not be live tomorrow or Friday, so this is
your last chance this week.
Really this month to uh get your question answered. So
call in. Here's the number 888-564-6173. Brian and Cheryl,
Speaker 2 (00:50):
what's up? I know it's a surprise, surprise, surprise. It's
Brian and Cheryl
Speaker 1 (00:54):
on Wednesday. Yes,
Speaker 2 (00:55):
on a Wednesday. It's a
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Wednesday that feels
Speaker 2 (00:57):
like
Speaker 1 (00:57):
a
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Friday,
Speaker 1 (00:57):
yeah. Who
Speaker 2 (00:58):
usually co-hosts on Wednesday?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Wednesday is kind of Talbot Day, um, for the most part,
you know, once in a while they,
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I, I could
Speaker 1 (01:05):
pretend don't make it.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I went to Talbot.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Talbot Talbot. Well, you might have gone to Talbot earlier.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I've been on Talbot. I just haven't been to Talbott.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
If you go
down to MacArthur and just turn left, you'll go to Talbot.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
That's how I get to
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Costco. Yes,
uh, yeah, so that's what we normally do on Wednesday.
But like I was telling you on the way up here,
it's like I, I keep forgetting like what day is it? I,
I keep thinking it's
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Tuesday. You know why you keep forgetting because you're not
doing any of the cooking.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Is that right? That's it. So
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I was working on a broccoli casserole.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
No, I'm
not doing the cooking. I'm doing the store.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah, he is. He did. He had to do some
store
Speaker 1 (01:40):
runs, yeah, some shopping.
So one of our Talbot guests is usually Ed Stetzer,
and Ed gives the phone number a lot. He loves
giving out the phone number. Yes, so maybe you can
do that today, Cheryl.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Well, you want me to say 888-564-6173. Please call us. Yes,
Speaker 1 (01:58):
perfect. Yeah, that
Speaker 2 (01:59):
was my radio voice.
888-564-6173. Do not try this if you have a headache.
Uh, blindness at night, you know how they all those
really quick things.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Oh yes, the, um, legalese that they throw in at
the end,
Speaker 2 (02:17):
isn't
that crazy? I, they have to get people who can
talk really fast and read,
Speaker 1 (02:21):
or they just speed it up on digitally. That might
be how they do
it.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
No, because if they were speeding it up digitally, then
they'd all sound like Alvin and the Chipmunks.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
They have to do it in such a way that
it's still somewhat.
Understandable because otherwise
it would go
Speaker 2 (02:36):
you remember cassette tapes, right? Of course. So at the
Bible
Speaker 1 (02:41):
College,
Speaker 2 (02:42):
yes, at the Bible College they had to listen to
my dad's 2000 series, um, you know, Genesis through Revelation
on these cassette tapes, and it would be so funny
because you could tell these kids were listening to the
speeded up version and my dad
Speaker 1 (02:55):
sounded so high pitched.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
It's like, wow, because you know he talked slowly and very.
Um, deliberately, um, when he talked, and, and so when
you hear it on the, when I would hear it
speed it up, it was like hilarious, and I said, Dad,
I keep hearing you, you know, speed it up.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
He goes, I heard that too.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Fun, fun, fun. All
Speaker 1 (03:21):
right, so give us a call at 888-564-6173. You can
also send in your questions online, which is what Stephanie
did on the Kwave.com pastor's perspective page. You can also
scan the QR code if you're watching on Facebook, YouTube,
or Instagram, and that'll take you right to the page.
Here is what Stephanie writes, and I think Stephanie is
in Mexico, uh, cause I didn't recognize the zip code,
(03:45):
so I typed it in, and it might be in Mexico,
I don't know. But anyway, Stephanie writes.
We have the authority to cast evil spirits off of
another person, right, but if the person isn't willing because
of their free will, can we still cast them off?
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Uh, we believe in casting out. I haven't really heard
of casting out, but maybe that's just like a, a
preposition mix up. But I would say, um, no, no,
I think there has to be a willingness to want
to be free. What do you say, Brian?
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Um,
Speaker 2 (04:21):
I just realized you're wearing your LA Dodgers hat.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Yeah, I mean, I, you know, you think of the,
the different people, the, the samples, you know, that we
have in scripture of, of Jesus delivering people. I think
of the man in Gadera, you know, the severely demon
possessed man who breaks the chains and cuts himself and
You know, it doesn't seem like there was any.
(04:46):
Like volitional act on his part, you know, Jesus just
sort of bypasses the man and says to the demons,
what's your name? And then he deals strictly with the demons,
and then he says the demons, you know, come out
of him. So, um, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah,
Speaker 1 (05:02):
well.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
You know, going to that story, the fact that the
man was seated in his right mind at Jesus' feet
almost says to me that Jesus knew, and this is
Jesus too, knew he wanted to be free. And he
addressed the demons rather than the man inside because, I mean,
the man who was held captive.
You know, you didn't say, would you, would you like
to be free? Yeah, you
Speaker 1 (05:24):
know, Cheryl, once in a while I don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
You know, I,
Speaker 1 (05:27):
I'm so happy to hear that a lot lately. Well,
if you want to say it in
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Spanish, you say Joe nose
Speaker 1 (05:37):
nose nose. OK, so going by what you guys just said,
does that mean demons don't have free will because
Speaker 2 (05:43):
not to Jesus. I think that they probably inhabit who
they want, but I,
Speaker 1 (05:48):
I mean,
Speaker 2 (05:48):
we're not told enough.
demons, yeah, right,
Speaker 1 (05:50):
but I mean they obviously had enough free will to revolt. So,
but I mean, any, even with free will, it doesn't
mean you can resist God without him, you know what
I mean? We all have free will, but one day
God's gonna say, yeah, OK, here you go, you're going
over there and you know, you can't do anything about it.
But
Speaker 2 (06:09):
it is so, um.
Powerful to realize that Jesus had absolute authority when he
walked on earth over all demonic powers, you know, like
we talked about, or I think it was Char was
talking about when Jesus stood, no, it was you on
Sunday night. Jesus stood on the bow of the boat.
And commanded the waves and the, the storm, the winds
(06:32):
to stop and they did and how he had, you know,
he could say to those legions, you know, they're begging
for mercy, you know, you know, please don't, you know,
throw us into the abyss before our time. So Jesus
had that authority and they recognized it.
You know, and, and as James said, even the demons
(06:53):
believe in Trimble. So there's, there's, you know, Jesus has
the authority. So I, I know that, you know, she said,
you know, we have the power, right? And I think
that's like, um.
Yes, but it's actually the Lord's power obviously working in
and through us to deliver somebody and I think that um.
(07:16):
You, you don't, you don't wanna go around trying to
deliver people you really want to make sure that this
is something, um, you know, I know.
Whenever somebody when I saw like my, my dad, uh,
do exorcisms, and I bet people are shocked to find
out Chuck Smith did that, but when that would happen, um,
(07:40):
it was because the person came to him and said,
please help me and so.
Um, I do remember something like that, you know, that
they had come to the church for help or they've
gone to one of the, um, what I call hippie houses,
you know, needing and wanting help, so.
Right. And you know what's interesting is the people who come,
(08:02):
it's not a mental problem they knew it was demonic
they knew because of something in their past that they
had opened themselves up to these spirits and they wanted
freedom so there was a a lady who came to
our store, our chapel store, and um she's kind of
(08:24):
strange looking um.
She had painted blood going down both sides of her
lips and yeah, they're kind of like, can I help you?
And she's like, yes, I, I have some demons I
want to be delivered from. So they called the pastors
and they went over, they prayed for her and she said,
thank you very much. I feel much better and left.
It's kind of like an interesting, like, OK, yes, at
(08:47):
the church you see just about everything, don't you? Yes,
Speaker 1 (08:49):
never a dull day at the chapel store of Calvary Chapel,
Costa Mesa where Bibles are also 35% off and
Speaker 2 (08:54):
you want to get your Christmas present. Yes,
Speaker 1 (08:57):
yes, indeed,
Speaker 2 (08:58):
and maybe get delivered at the same time.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
We should make a commercial. That, that'll be how we, uh,
write that commercial. No, I'm joking about that totally. Stephanie,
thank you for sending in your question online. Let's go
to the phones now, 888-564-6173. We're gonna begin with Debbie
who is watching us on YouTube. Hi, Debbie, in Pasadena. Hey,
it's the day before Thanksgiving, Debbie, what are you thankful for?
(09:22):
Yes, hi, I'm grateful for the Kwave team and that
the Brodersons are there today. Uh, and thank you. I
wanted to, uh, direct a question to Cheryl if I might.
I
Speaker 2 (09:35):
love it.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Yeah, just so that you know, the YouTube and the phone,
there's a significant delay. Oh yes, that's on purpose. Well,
I'm trying not to look over at the screen.
That'll drive you batty. So, uh, yeah, you can, you
can always go back and watch the screen later. So, uh, just, yeah,
listen on your phone.
Well, um, I know that, uh, Cheryl, uh, was raised
(10:00):
in a Christian home and probably like me, uh, she's,
she's known or been aware of or, uh, felt, uh,
you know, dedicated to Jesus all of her life. Um, and, um,
the thing is, whenever I try to share with someone,
(10:22):
It, it, it's, uh, I'm not spirit-filled. I'm, I don't
have the power and, uh, I just wondered, is that
just a special spiritual gift that God gives to some Christians?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I think sometimes, but I don't feel like I have
necessarily the gift of evangelism, and yet I found myself
sharing Jesus before, um.
I had a friend named Mary um Peeples who's just
one of my favorite people in the whole wide
world.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Is it because her name was Mary Peeples?
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Maybe so, but, um, she was, she's brilliant. She was
a lawyer and she's just got this brilliant mind and
a great teacher. And so we asked her at one
of our conferences or women's conferences, will you just do
like a workshop on how to evangelize because I knew
that was one of her favorite things to do and
(11:16):
she said.
I'd love to. And, and so I went to that
and she said, you know, I realized that people aren't
interested in facts and figures. She said, facts and figures
did not bring me to Jesus. It was the love.
It was the kindness, and it was, you know, the
offer of salvation. And she said, I find that just
simply telling my testimony is what works best.
(11:40):
And I have found that, you know, most of my
opportunities to witness have been on a plane and I
will often say, well, I've, you know, I've known Jesus
all my life and people get curious when you say
something like that. And I remember coming back from England, uh,
time before last and
They moved my seat and I really didn't want to move,
(12:02):
but this dad really wanted to sit next to his
daughter and I was like, I cannot keep this dad
from his eight year old. So I traded seats and
he tried to get the guy who I ended up
sitting next to to trade seats and he didn't want
to and and I had to sit in bulkhead, which
I don't like. But anyway, I, um, I just started
talking to him, um, and you know, something came up
(12:26):
and I just started sharing with him.
The whole time and he was a Hindu, but he
was kind of, you know, he was living in England,
so I, I knew it couldn't be too um
Too serious. And then he was saying to me, I
wish you would talk to my sister. She's really, really
into spiritual things. In fact, we're gonna go see the Harry,
(12:47):
we're going to uh Universal Studios. We want to see
the Harry Potter, um, thing. And I said, oh yeah,
that does show like an interest in spiritual things. So
the next thing I knew, I had shared with him
for about an hour.
And his sister came up and they traded places and
she wanted to talk to me about, you know, what
I have been talking to her brother about and mainly
(13:08):
I was just answering questions and I really was just
enjoying it, you know, just answering questions and.
And I, I actually did not initiate anything. They kept
asking me questions and I just kept answering. And it
really is. But that's, that those are the times that
you just know the Lord's in it and it was like,
(13:31):
I didn't have to search for the answer. It was
right there. I just knew exactly what to say. So
I knew that the spirit, you know, Jesus said, you
don't have to like prepare beforehand.
You know what you're going to say because in that
moment the spirit will give you the words that you
need and that's what I found that the spirit was
just kind of supplying with me. And you know what
(13:52):
people want most is they want to feel heard and loved.
And if we do that, I think that's one of
the best open doors. In fact, again, most of my
opportunities for sharing Jesus have been on airplanes and I
remember another time on an airplane.
I sat next to this lady and she said, you know,
what were you doing in Virginia? And I said, oh,
(14:14):
I did a women's retreat. She said, what kind of
women's retreat? And I said, oh, I teach the Bible.
She said, I've always been very curious about the Bible.
Can I ask you some questions? And I said, yes.
But I said, first I want to know what you
are doing. So,
She kind of started pouring out her story to me and,
you know, where her life's going and that she's kind
of at this dead end and she was a really,
(14:35):
really brilliant woman. And so she was also, uh, she
trained teachers. So I was asking her all sorts of questions.
So she said, OK, I've answered enough of your questions.
Now it's time for you to answer mine.
And I began to answer one question after another, and
she just wanted to know all about Jesus. She wanted
to know about the hope and she wanted to know
if she got a Bible, kind of Bible she should
(14:56):
get and where she should read. And I remember sharing
the Lord when Brian fell asleep on an airplane and
sitting next to this girl who was an actress, and, uh,
believe me, we were not in first class. We were
on one of those planes where everybody's equal on the
way to uh Cyprus to do a missions conference.
And I sit next to her and she's telling me
(15:16):
she's an actress and I said, oh, that's interesting. I said, um,
in a movie just recently, um, Kelsey, uh, Grammer played
my father in a movie called The Jesus Revolution. She goes, What?
You know, who was your father? So I used that
as my inroad to start sharing about Jesus and what
the movie was about. And then she said, I've been
(15:38):
thinking I need to read the Bible. What Bible would
you recommend?
And I said, well, you know, because she's not a believer,
she's just starting out. I said I would try the
New Living Translation. She's like, 00, show me that on Amazon.
So she had to open up her Amazon app and
I had to type it in for her and she's
like I'm ordering this and
She ended up just peppering me with questions and I
(16:01):
just answered and I wanted to sleep so desperately, but
she wouldn't let me. She slept for you. He did.
He slept for both of us, but she had so
many questions and they were good questions and I had
the opportunity to answer.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
I wasn't, I wasn't asleep. I was praying for you
the whole time.
It's, but occasionally snoring. I wanted to keep my eyes
closed so
Speaker 2 (16:23):
I can really pray, go into deep, deep intercession. Now
Speaker 1 (16:27):
one of the things about evangelism though is people are
afraid that someone might ask us those questions that we
don't have the answers to. So in your case, you know,
Speaker 2 (16:36):
the Lord gives you the answers in the thing, or
you could say, I don't know, but I know there's
an answer, but I don't know the answer. But I
know that God knows the answer, and I know that
there was a time when I didn't have an answer
and
The Lord spoke to me, you know, mainly what I
do is I talk about my own experience with Jesus. Like, um,
I sit next to one guy and I remember just saying, well,
(16:58):
as a Christian, I think this way, you know, um,
I sat next to this one guy, this is a
different one. I sat down next to him and he goes,
you know, um, I said something and he said, I'm gay.
And in my community, you know, you hate us. And
I'm like, well, I believe every person was made in
the image of God, so I don't hate anybody.
And I said, and I believe that God is not
(17:21):
willing or doesn't want anyone to die and go to hell,
but he wants everyone to go to heaven and share
it with him. And I said, in, in my experience,
I have found that Jesus is my community and I
just shared with him just the love of God and
just I said, you know, I don't have any expectations
for how you live when you don't know Jesus, you know, and.
(17:43):
I only have expectations because I know Jesus and because
I know God, I talked to him and I want
to please him. But if you don't know God, I
can totally understand that. So, we ended up having this
incredible conversation and he was going to New York for
a funeral. I was going to New York to visit
my daughter. So, he kind of said to me, do
(18:04):
you mind not talking to me anymore? And I'm like, no,
that's fine. I'll, I'll stop. I'm, I'm really good at stopping.
Be too and so I just didn't talk to him
for the rest of the flight and he said a
couple of things like, could you, um, when the guy
comes by, could you make sure I get some water
and I said sure and I didn't, you know, I
didn't talk anymore. Yeah, I didn't answer anymore. I didn't,
you know, but we got to the, um, airport and
(18:27):
I went to use the restroom when I came out
I saw him and I said, oh, I hope you
have a wonderful time in New York and then I said, oh,
I'm so sorry.
You're going to a funeral. I said, I just hope
that you, you have some really good memories and, and
that this time is, is, um, gives you a chance
to really say goodbye and to grieve and yet you
(18:50):
know rejoice that you had the opportunity to know your
friend and he's like, you know, in my life I've
never met anyone like you and I said.
That's a good thing, right? And he goes, no, that's,
I mean it. I mean it sincerely.
I, I really, really did enjoy our conversation. Thank you.
Thank you. And I'm like, good, you know, I'm glad
(19:13):
we met. And, you know, I left. And so, um,
I think I did tell him I pray for him.
But I that another time I got one more, one more.
I was in an exercise class, but I was in
an exercise class and this woman, her husband
Speaker 1 (19:31):
had
had cancer charge of your program
Speaker 2 (19:34):
here. Can I just do this when I.
Promise I'll stop after this, but, um, I remember you
Speaker 1 (19:39):
being like the guy on the plane, Brian, can you
just not, I am, you know, can you stop talking
to me?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
But anyway, um, I was, I was, um, at an
exercise class and this woman came in really grieved and
said her husband had just been diagnosed with lung cancer.
And I just kind of, you know, listened to her.
And when class was almost over, I went up to
her and I said, look, I love to pray. You know,
can you give me your husband's name and I can
pray for him and just add him to my prayer time.
(20:06):
And she said, I would love that and appreciate that
so much. And I said, I'll be praying for you too,
for strength. So after that, she started coming in every
day and giving me things to pray for, specifics, like
we went to the doctor, this is what the doctor said,
this is what we need. So I pray and as
the Lord would have it, he began to improve. And
she came in one day and she said, he's in remission.
(20:28):
And I really think it's because Cheryl prayed and then
everyone in the class was giving me prayer requests. So
those are just different inroads.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
That's awesome. Debbie, what do you think?
Well, I, I wanted to have another question if it's OK. Sure.
One of the things that falls flat when I'm talking
to someone.
Um, and maybe I can direct this one to Brian. Yeah, I'm,
I'm feeling really neglected. Yeah, Brian feels left out, so maybe, uh, yes, well,
(21:01):
like if I say to someone, you know, that Christianity.
Isn't just a religion. It's, it's a relationship. It's a
personal relationship. And, and, and usually that just falls flat.
People just don't get it. And I said,
Well, you're praying to a person, and I don't know,
(21:23):
maybe you have some tips. It's funny that you said that, Debbie,
because I was thinking of that phrase earlier this week,
how that was one of the phrases that we were
always encouraged to use whenever people would bring that up.
We would say, well, Christianity is not a religion, it's
a relationship, and then you kind of think about it
and maybe that's something that we talk about amongst each
(21:43):
other at church. It's, it's churches. Well, I think, I,
I think it's a
I mean, you might reconsider how you, how you word it,
but I think the idea is really, really important because
that
Speaker 2 (21:57):
captured your heart, didn't it?
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Yeah, I mean, you know, the idea that you actually
would have a relationship with God. I mean, that's religion
doesn't give you that opportunity. You know, religion gives you like, OK,
do this and don't do that and you know, come
here at this time and go through these steps or
processes or whatever. And and it's in many ways it's
(22:23):
it's impersonal. The the God that you're
Whatever you're doing, worshiping or whatever the case is, you
don't have any contact with them or you don't sense
like you have any contact with them. And yeah, for me,
just the idea that, wait, God is a person that
I'm gonna have a relationship with, like you have a
relationship with a person. I think that is revolutionary and
(22:46):
I think that it's something that we should say to
people and I, you know, here's the thing too, Debbie,
I would say is when you say it falls flat.
Um, just remember this, that God's word is living and powerful.
Remember that God's word doesn't return to him void, and
(23:06):
remember that it's the spirit of God that takes the
word of God and quickens the hearts of people. So
maybe at the moment you feel like this has just
fallen flat, and believe me, I've had those kinds of
experiences myself, uh, but you never know what's happening. That's
the thing, you know, because we are.
Like Jesus, he said a sower went out and he
(23:26):
sowed seed. A farmer went out and scattered seed. That's
what he's saying. That's what we're doing. We're scattering seed
and sometimes the seed's already been scattered and we're, we're
watering it, just we're coming by and we're just sprinkling
a little bit of water on it. And then once
in a while.
We get to actually pick the fruit, you know, and
(23:47):
those are the times where you're just like, oh my gosh,
this was amazing. Or you're maybe you're so close you
could see the fruit's just about to fall off the tree, but,
you know, maybe just a few more days, and then
somebody else does it. So I think if we think
of it in a, in a process rather than an instantaneous, like,
you know, I remember years ago when I was when
(24:08):
I was first beginning to pastor, um,
There was this deacon guy in the church and, and
he had Cheryl knows exactly what you're talking about, yeah,
and you know he had all these ideas about how
the church should run and you know what I should
do and um so I, you know, I would preach
(24:29):
and and, you know, give whatever the message was teaching
on on Sunday morning.
And then afterward he would often come to me. He goes,
you know, brother Brian, you just didn't close the deal.
You didn't close the deal. And uh yeah, you didn't
seal the deal, right? And, and I just look at
him like, you know, would you just go away? Um,
and the, the thing is, you know, I believe God's
(24:52):
the one who seals the deal. And um sometimes he
uses us to do that and sometimes he uses us
in the process. So don't.
Don't be too hard on yourself. And one last thing.
Pray even when you're talking to somebody. I do that
when I'm starting to talk to somebody or talking to somebody,
I'm like, Lord, I don't know what to say. Lord,
(25:15):
I just pray that you'd help. Lord, I pray that
you would do something here. And, uh, yeah, sometimes they
just start humming and people don't know that I'm saying,
God help me right now.
So does that help between Cheryl and I, I think
we
Speaker 2 (25:29):
got one more thing to add.
I think, yeah, I think when you say it's a
relationship you can also talk about how it's a relationship
and I think pray prayer, you know, while we pray,
I think that makes people just think of formal formula.
If they're religious formalized uh mantras and so I think
(25:53):
when you say I talked to God and that's what
I like to say, well, I talk to God every day.
I have conversations with him and I'll have people go,
did he talk back? You're like.
Yeah, you know, mainly he talks through the Bible and
he'll remind me of a promise. Alright. But
Speaker 1 (26:10):
it, but it is true because, you know, you didn't
grow up like I did. So I grew up in
a system where we had prayers that were already
Written, you know, they were written out for you basically
and then you, you repeat the prayer. So that doesn't
give you any sense like you're actually communicating with somebody
you're just, you know, saying something and hoping God's hearing it.
(26:32):
So what we're saying is it's a conversational, it's a
relational thing you're talking to God and I can attest
that Cheryl is talking to God all the time, you know,
she's in the kitchen making something and like, oh Lord.
You know, help me with this, show me how to
do this, you know, and it's just a habit of
her life, which is a great
habit.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Well, my mom, we'd be in the middle of a
conversation and if it got intense like um we were
finding out that somebody was in trouble or sick, my
mom would just start praying and you'd be like, oh,
we're praying this is about God, you know, and the
eyes could be open, she could be drinking coffee, but
she was, she was bringing me right into the throne
(27:13):
room with her.
And we were bringing that person before God. And that's
how I was raised, you know, if I told my dad, oh,
my back's hurting, next thing I know, I had a
hand on my shoulder and he was praying for the
healing of my back. It's just how I was raised
and so it comes very naturally to me. But for
(27:34):
somebody like who wasn't raised, that kind of um.
Easy conversation, just taking it to Jesus, taking everything to Jesus,
they don't understand. So sometimes I think you have to
tell them a little bit about how you do it
and what you're doing. Again, it's your testimony. You tell
(27:57):
them how you talk to God. Tell them about what
you prayed for and how you pray. And I think
that that makes a difference because again, we're so used
to the.
These phrases like prayer and redemption and relationship, they all
mean something to us. But those who are outside the faith,
they don't understand it like we do, you know, like
(28:18):
what's a relationship? He loves me and I love him.
We tell each other that we love each other. He
leaves me love notes. They're in the Bible, you know,
they're scriptures that he'll whisper to me by the Holy
Spirit and I'll know.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Speaking of scattering seeds, all the stories you told Cheryl about,
you know, the airplane and everything else, none of them
really right then and there led to a conversion. So
that's what we need to remember, that, that every now
and then, yeah, we'll get to meet someone, you never
see able to do that. Yeah, that deacon is so upset.
That's what I'd always tell her at the end of
the flight, Cheryl.
That was good, but you
didn't.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Hey, at least we landed
Speaker 1 (28:54):
the
Speaker 2 (28:54):
plane.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yes,
you didn't land the plane, honey. You know, you were
just on the runway, you know, here's, here's, um, when we,
when we lived in London, we did a lot of outreach,
you know, and we would, we would go out to
public places and we would do, you know, music and
stuff and.
And initially the people in our church were super freaked
(29:15):
out about that, like oh my gosh, because they really
thought like I gotta go out there and I gotta
make somebody believe in Jesus, you know, that that's what
they thought. So I would just say, you know what,
there's people out there that are all different sort of
distances away from Jesus. Maybe today you're just gonna bring
them one step, but they've got 100 more, but just
that's that's all you're doing.
(29:36):
Great conversation, Debbie. Thank you for your question. We've got
to go to break now. We'll be back with more
of the questions you've got about the Bible, the Christian faith, etc. etc.
888-564-6173 is our number. We're gonna be here until 4
o'clock and we would love to talk to you cause
uh this is our last program of the month. So
call in 888-564-6173. Joey, we will talk to you next
(30:01):
here on Pastor's Perspective.
Hey, we're back on Pastor's Perspective. If you've got a
(30:21):
question for Brian and Cheryl Broderson from Echoesof Mercy.com, the
phone number to call is
Cheryl, what's the number?
Speaker 2 (30:29):
The number is 888-564-6173.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Thank you.
You could say
888-564-888-564-6173.
That's kind of how Ed says it,
Speaker 2 (30:46):
you know, that just, uh, our grandson, uh, our oldest grandson,
when he was like 5, he goes.
Hello. It was at uh Thanksgiving. Hello, my name is Mr. Smith.
His name was actually last name is Smith because, and
I'm from England. And then he started doing a voice
like that, you know, 888-564-6173, and he didn't drop it
(31:10):
like for hours. So we just, you know, we're talking
to Mr. Smith, you know, it
Speaker 1 (31:17):
was fun. He was hoping that we'd ask him to
come on the radio. Yes, yes, yes, we're hiring, so,
you know, bring him on.
OK, uh, 888-564-6173. By the way, this Sunday, what's going on, Brian?
This Sunday, we, well, we finished the Book of Acts
last Sunday night, which was great. We were in it
for about 8 months. And so this, so the first.
(31:43):
Sunday of the month, we're we're doing setting aside for
kind of a worship night in prayer.
And I thought this Sunday was the first Sunday of
the month, but it's not. It's the last Sunday of
the month, but we're gonna do the worship night and
prayer anyway, and then we're gonna come back on the
7th and the 14th and do more kind of Christmassy stuff.
So yeah, so, so that's we're trying to set aside that,
(32:04):
you know, once a month where we can just, just
together pray, worship, seek the Lord.
And so that's what we'll be doing this Sunday night,
6:30 at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa in the Fellowship hall. Nice.
Come on up. Get more details at backtobasicsradio.com/live. Here is Joey,
who is calling in from Orange, listening on the Kwave app.
(32:26):
Thank you, Joey, for downloading the app and thank you
for calling in today. What are you thankful for, by
the way, cause it's almost Thanksgiving.
Uh, for my family, my kids.
Yes,
Speaker 2 (32:38):
that's a good one.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Yeah.
So what's your question is, um, I know that the, uh,
you know, I know that lying is wrong and that
the verse, uh, where Jesus said, if you deny me
before men, I'll deny you before my Father, but I
was just scrolling through Instagram.
The night and uh I came across this video where
of the um the 21 uh Coptic Christians uh got
(33:04):
crucified for, you know, deny not denying their faith beheaded
um yeah, the guys in the orange jumpsuits that got beheaded, yeah, yeah, yes. So, uh,
when that, when I saw that really, it got me thinking.
I was like, you know.
Would God accept the concept of faking it to make it.
(33:25):
What do you mean by that? Yeah, in what sense?
Like, uh, say for example, one of the 21 said, oh,
I believe, I'll believe in Islam or whatever, and I'll
deny Jesus or whatever, and he got, he gets to
be alive.
You know, so he pretty much faked it until he
made it and then like say like after he was
(33:48):
let go, he escaped and
Speaker 2 (33:51):
you know that's quite a scenario. You know what? I,
Speaker 1 (33:54):
no, no, no, but it got me wondering, you know,
that's that's a fake until you make it kind of yeah,
but
Speaker 2 (34:00):
what I, what I think though instead is that you
receive a dying grace.
I think that um.
I think though that Peter talks about how the spirit
of what is it grace and.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
The spirit
of glory and God rests upon those who are persecuted
Speaker 2 (34:23):
and so there is, there is just something, um, that
I think gives you the strength to go through, you know, um.
I went through some persecution when I was in high
school for Jesus and it would have been really easy
to just kind of say well you know that's my
dad's thing and I could have gotten out of it
(34:46):
but all of a sudden I felt this empowerment and
you know, call it grace or whatever and I just
stood firm and said no and I started just sharing
with this whole class about.
You know, why I, you know, it was had to
do with the Theodore Rothke poem and why I didn't
believe when you die that you actually die. And I
(35:06):
just started sharing with everybody. And I remember the teacher
telling me, you know, Cheryl, you sound crazy and, you know,
just these kids just got all over at me. They
were yelling at me, they were mad at me. And
I remember just walking out of that class going, OK,
you know.
You know, but I remember at the time just feeling
empowered at the class, but the minute I got out
(35:28):
the door, I was just like, wow, you know, do
I come back to school tomorrow or not? And two
girls came up to me and they said, thank you
for doing that. Thank you for standing for Jesus. We weren't,
we weren't strong enough, but now we think we are
because we watched you do it and we believe just
like you. And one of the girls asked if she
could go to church with me and became a really
(35:49):
close friend.
Then this is uh this is what's really great about
that story years later that teacher that had been so
terrible to me, um.
He, he got cancer and he was still teaching at
the high school I went to and a friend of
mine had taken a job also as an English teacher
(36:11):
there and she met him and he asked, something came
up that she was a Christian and that she went
to Calvary Chapel and he said, do you know Cheryl Smith?
And she said, I not only know her, I stayed, I,
you know, stayed with her when I was in England.
I visited her. I know her really well. And he said,
will you tell her?
That because of her I'm born again and I'm not
(36:34):
afraid to die because I know I'm gonna go to
heaven and she needs to know that because of her
I'm born again and the whole conversation that day in
that class had been on heaven and you just think,
you know, the Lord.
Knows, so I don't think any of those men.
Even considered faking it. I think that they were, um,
(36:57):
empowered by the Holy Spirit to actually die for Jesus.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
But
here's my question. Are, are you asking Joey like if
somebody did that?
Would they be forgiven if somebody was to do that?
Would they be forgiving? Is that what you're asking? Yes, yes. Would,
would God be like, would he forgive that? Yeah, yes,
of course, God, God would forgive any sin, you know.
(37:23):
So I mean, remember Peter, uh, Peter denied Jesus three times, and,
you know, under pressure, they said, um, you're, aren't you
one of his disciples? No, no, not me. No, I
don't know the man.
And then, you know, he swore with an oath that
he'd never met Jesus. So, and then of course Jesus
gives him the three opportunities to um
(37:46):
Confess him. Um, but this is an interesting thing in
church history when the Roman Emperor Diocletian brought an intense
persecution against the Christians in 303.
Um, there were many that buckled under the pressure and
denied their faith.
(38:08):
And once the persecution passed, uh, some of them felt
horrible about that, and they wanted to come back to
the church. And some in the church said, nope, mm mm,
that's it, you know, you, you, you denied Jesus, you're out.
And others were like, well, you know, I think God
would have us to be merciful. So there was actually
(38:28):
like a, a kind of a schism in the church
over whether they could be welcomed back in.
And so what is this era called? What is it?
I think people might want to read up on. Well,
this is, uh, 303 was the Diocletian persecution. Yeah, so,
but it was at that time, yeah. And, um, and
there was a, there was a group that was really,
(38:50):
they were really kind of radical, and they were like,
no way these guys are out. They denied the faith. They,
they can't come back. And, um, yeah, so it was
quite interesting really.
Wow. All right, Joey, thank you for your phone call
today on Pastor's Perspective. Now we'll talk to Daniel. Nope,
Daniel hung up. OK, so let's go to Tyler in
(39:11):
San Diego. Hey, Tyler, welcome to Pastor's Perspective. What are
you thankful for?
Tyler, you there?
Tyler, do you, did you press mute on your phone?
I did. You did. How did I know?
It happens every time. It happens to everybody. Yes, yes,
(39:31):
you're not alone.
Yeah, so, uh, thankful for my wife and kids and, uh,
the Lord's mercies, yay.
So what's your question for us today?
My question is in regards to 1 John 5:16-17.
I was just having a little bit of a hard
time understanding.
(39:52):
Um, part of it saying that there is sin that
leads to death and sin not leading to death. I
believe that's verse 17, and then right before that, it says, uh,
I did not say that he should pray.
About that, I think that's referring to the sin that's
leading to death. I just some clarity would be helpful. OK, well,
(40:13):
let me just say this first of all, Tyler, you
are not the first person to wonder about the meaning
of this passage. And secondly, let me say that, um,
nobody knows exactly what it means, at least as far
as I've been able to ascertain. I've taught
Speaker 2 (40:30):
with certainty, you mean.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Yeah, I, there are there there's
some ideas, um, but all of them are difficult. So
the first thing that people ask is about, um, what
is the sin to death? And so some say, uh,
(40:51):
the sin of death is like say Samson. Samson committed
a sin unto death because, you know, he continued to
neglect his commitment to the Lord and then was deceived
by Delilah, and then he was taken captive by the
Philistines and then he died prematurely. So that's a sin
unto death. Um, Saul committed a sin unto death. So
(41:14):
you know, people will give different examples and they'll say, um, this,
this is what a sin unto death is. But then,
but then John says, I don't say to pray for that.
And so I, I think the hard thing there is like, well,
how do you know? So I was just reading in
um 2 Chronicles about um the, the longest reigning king
(41:37):
and the most wicked king of Judah. His name was Manasseh,
and he reigned for 55 years and he introduced every
kind of idolatry and wickedness and evil into Israel. He
sacrificed his children to the pagan gods. Now.
But then the crazy thing is God.
(41:58):
Sends him off into captivity to Babylon and he repents.
And he comes back and then he's trying to kind
of undo what he did, you know. Now I guarantee
that when you looked at Manasseh, even more than Saul
or even more than Samson, you would be tempted to
think this is the sin to death. I mean, this
guy has fully embraced the idolatry of the nations around him.
(42:21):
He's set up like an idol in the temple in Jerusalem.
So my whole point is this, if it's that kind
of death, like physical death, it's really hard to know
when somebody is committing a sin unto death. I think
that the sin unto death, the closest thing that I,
I think we're talking about here is what we also
(42:41):
sometimes call the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
It's the, it's the rejection of Jesus Himself all the
way and I think that's what John is talking about.
But like I said, if you read 10, uh, commentaries
on First John, you'd get at least 7 different takes
on this.
So, what do you think, Tyler?
(43:04):
Right, yeah, I mean, that's what I thought it was me,
but then why would it say don't.
Don't pray for those. Yeah, that, that's a question. Why, why, yeah, and,
and you know, I thought before that, um, you know.
You, you, in one sense, you can't pray for them
because in the sense of, oh, God bless them or whatever,
(43:25):
you almost have to pray a different kind of a prayer,
like God opened their eyes or something like that. So, yeah,
that's the hard part. And I honestly don't know exactly
why it says that. You know,
Speaker 2 (43:36):
it's interesting
Twice in Jeremiah though, God said quit praying for these people.
I won't listen because they've just gone too far and
but it's God who knows the heart, right? So yeah,
interesting passage that nobody's quite sure
about.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
Yeah, there, you know, there, I think we would be
better off if we just did recognize and admit there
are some passages we just don't.
Yeah,
fully understand,
Speaker 2 (44:02):
right,
Speaker 1 (44:02):
because I don't
Speaker 2 (44:03):
have, well, I'm, I'm in Zachariah right now, and you know,
I think there are some passages that are wait and see,
you know, and I, I think that, you know, because
everyone expected a warrior, the Messiah to be a warrior
and didn't expect the first coming, that it would be in,
you know, humility and would be, you know, result in
(44:26):
death and then a resurrection.
They missed him and so I think that that could
possibly happen with prophecy if we get too much in
our minds, uh, what it should look like or what
we imagine it to look like you don't wanna miss the,
the real thing, you know. So anyway, yes, it's sometimes
just to leave it open and say, Lord, I don't
(44:47):
understand this
Speaker 1 (44:48):
and I, and I've actually taught this passage a few
times and I think
Speaker 2 (44:51):
differently every time I've sat through those studies.
In fact, I wasn't quite sure which one you were
gonna choose, door number 1, door 2, or door number 3.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
All right, Tyler, thanks for your phone call today on
Pastor's Perspective, and now we'll go to Harold in San Bernardino.
You there, Harold?
Yes, I am. I'm kind of a little confused because
I'm listening to my call on the
radio. Yeah, turn your radio off. I hate saying turn
your radio off because I always want you guys listening
to K-wave, but when you call into pastor's perspective, turn
off the radio, you'll hear the program over the phone,
(45:23):
and you'll hear us talking to you over the phone.
So what's your question for us, Harold?
Um, is Miss Cheryl, I think the question is directed
toward her. Is she the lady that I heard before on,
on your radio station that says,
She doesn't believe in generational curses. Is she the one?
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Yes, because in Proverbs it says that the curse will
not fall on the innocent, like a bird, uh, like
a flitting bird, um, and something, so the curse will
not fall on the innocent.
So I, I don't believe in generational curses, however, and
(46:05):
this is where I made it, however, however, I believe
in generational propensities.
So to speak, like, um, you know, I'll tell you
the truth. I had a great grandmother who was just
a liar. I mean, she just lied. She's, she's a
liar and um.
(46:27):
I have family members that have that same propensity and I,
I asked my dad one time I said, Dad, I
think that you come from a family of, of liars
on your dad's side. He goes, yes I do and
it was interesting how it was something, you know, um,
(46:48):
my grandfather was the first person on that side to
be saved for.
You know, uh, I maybe ever and so, um,
He, you know, but he struggled with resisting lying, and I,
and so did his mother and, and my father was
(47:09):
the most honest man I, I knew. I don't, I
don't think he ever, I think he was like George Washington.
He never told a lie, but uh the thing was,
is that, um,
And so I do believe that there's a generational propensity,
not necessarily a curse, because I think if you walk
with the Lord, uh, whatever that propensity is, if you
(47:30):
recognize it and take it to the Lord, it can
be broken. So that's how I see it. So it,
it could be you could say, oh, that's semantical, Cheryl,
aren't we talking about the same thing, but um.
I think a curse is something that you can't resist
or claim victory over in the name of Jesus, whereas
(47:51):
I believe a propensity is something that you can be
free of if you recognize it as this is a
sin and I don't want this in my life and Jesus,
I submit this part of me to you. So that's
how I see it.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
OK, I see your point now, but ma'am, if you
have met the families, I have met with the whole family, family,
and it's a, it's a verse in the Bible that
talks about, I think, um, God has saved the, the
Jews from the Egyptians, and he, um, he made, um,
(48:29):
a promise that the older people.
will not see the promised land, but the children, the
younger people, we are suffering in that, yes,
Speaker 2 (48:38):
yes.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
Is that not a generational curse?
Speaker 2 (48:42):
Well, Caleb and Joshua got to go in. So it's
not a full generational curse. Brian.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
Yeah, I mean, and then it was, it, it wasn't
a curse that passed from the guilty party
Speaker 2 (48:53):
to the next party, the
Speaker 1 (48:54):
children to the innocent. The guilty party were going to
suffer the consequences of their, of their sin. So they
had to die in the wilderness, but their children.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
Who
Speaker 1 (49:05):
they
said we don't wanna be in this wilderness because our
kids are gonna die out here. God said, no, actually
they're gonna be the ones to go in into the
promised land.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
They're the ones are gonna be blessed and
Speaker 1 (49:15):
there's, there's several passages where the Lord says, um, no, no, um.
A son will not be uh punished for the father's sins,
nor will the father be punished for the son's sins,
but everyone will bear their own sin. So the generational thing,
of course you do have sin that passes.
(49:37):
Like Cheryl was saying, you have sin that passes down
from generation to generation, and that causes all kinds of problems,
but it's not a curse in the sense that it's
something that can't be dealt with. So Jesus breaks the
curse and then people are set
free.
Speaker 2 (49:52):
You know, I, I wanna say something right here though, um.
When I first met um my mother-in-law Carol, she began
to tell me just her life story, and it was
one tragedy after another, um, losing her mom when she
was only, um, 18 years, uh, 20 years old, 1820
(50:14):
years old, and just, um, even before that and just
it was so tragic. I found myself crying as she's
telling me all of this, but then she tells me
she received Jesus.
And that, that it stopped it stopped, it began to
turn and you know one of those things, you know, even,
(50:34):
you know, Brian, I was saying Brian, all these things
are in your past he's like, yeah, yeah, and that
was part of what happened like Brian's when we got married,
we used to always get in fights on Christmas because
he would go in this grumpy, grumpy mood.
And it was because he told me he had miserable
Christmases growing up because his uncles would always get drunk
and get in a fight and the police would be
(50:55):
called and everybody was fighting all the family members and
I'm like, well, my Christmases were never like that, so
get happy now, you know, because I had such wonderful Christmases.
My mom was at her best, you know, my grand,
my um aunt would come over from Arizona.
I mean my Christmases were one of the happiest times
(51:16):
of my life, the decorations, everything, and church life and that,
but that's what I saw with Brian and with Brian's
mom is Jesus broke the curse. The, the trajectory without
God is always gonna be dark and lead downhill, but
when you put Jesus into the picture, he changes everything, so.
(51:38):
Um, you know, and we're told that he, he took
the curse for us that we might receive the blessing
that was due him, you know, he became a curse,
as cursed as everyone who hangs on a tree.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
Harold, thank you for your phone call today here on
Pastor's Perspective. Wait, did I ask Harold what he's thankful
for on this day before Thanksgiving?
Oh, I'm gonna tell you, I'm thankful for being here,
being able to talk to you with my breath and
blood running warm in my body.
Speaker 2 (52:05):
I love that, Harold.
Speaker 1 (52:07):
That's awesome.
We just end the show now. We're thankful for that. Yes,
for sure. Uh, let's talk to Xavier in Anaheim, listening
on FM 107.9 K wave. Hello, Xavier, thanks for calling
us today.
hello, hello,
my name is, my name is Xavier and my question
(52:27):
is
um.
What's
what's the best survival for a nine year old?
Speaker 2 (52:34):
Well, there's quite a few, um, I like the Living
Bible and they eat, um, but they also have a
Bible that's like comic books. Do you remember the name
of that Bible? And it reads like a comic book,
but it's, it's really great pictures and it's, it's the
real words, but it's just putting them with the people that, um.
(52:55):
That have done it. Oh, it's called the Action Bible.
So there's, um, the action Bible is a great Bible.
My kids used to have, um, the action Bible when
they were young and then there's, um, again, I like
the living translation. So, uh, there's a lot of um
great Bible studies there, but I do like the action Bible.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
Thank
Speaker 2 (53:18):
you for answering my
Speaker 1 (53:19):
question.
You bet. Now, Xavier, do you happen to have pen
and paper with you there somewhere?
Yeah. Because I wanna give you another phone number to call.
It's for the chapel store at Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa,
and uh we were talking about them earlier, and uh
you can uh call them because they know about all
the books and all the Bibles that are out there,
(53:41):
and you can ask them this question and they would
tell you for sure. They might even have the action
Bible there right now at the chapel store, and you
live in uh Anaheim, so you're not too far from
us here in uh Costa Mesa, border of Santa Ana. So, uh, you,
you ready for that number?
Yes. OK, here it is, 714.
(54:02):
540
2941.
All right. Do you wanna repeat it back to me
to make sure you, I said it right?
714.
540
941-22941.
(54:25):
No problem. Yep, that's it.
All right, Xavier, thanks for calling
us today.
Speaker 2 (54:32):
I just learned something. Brian Perez knows another phone number
besides the K-wave phone number.
Speaker 1 (54:40):
Was he looking at it on the screen, or was
it in his head? You know, the Chapel store phone number.
Do you know this 714-979-4422? That's the Calvary Chapel Costa
Mesa office. That is right and has been forever.
Such an easy one.
Well, we've been saying that for 60 years, so.
There's another no we haven't 50. No, that phone number, OK.
(55:05):
It might have been 2 and 3 before we've been
married 45 years and over the phone number.
Speaker 2 (55:08):
Yes, definitely, but not 60 because I'm only because my dad,
Speaker 1 (55:11):
oh yeah, right.
Please.
That's the phone number they got when you were 5
years old. Don't you remember? Yeah, and
I wasn't until we
Speaker 2 (55:20):
moved to Santa Ana.
Speaker 1 (55:21):
I am thankful for this woman right here
Speaker 2 (55:24):
because I made banana cream pie. Oh,
Speaker 1 (55:26):
is
that why? Is that the only reason, Brian? Uh, maybe
because of the other stuff she made too.
All right, you guys, have a great Thanksgiving. We will
talk to you again live on Monday. So if you
think of any questions over the next few days, write
them down so you don't forget them, and then call us.
We will be here from 3 to 4 p.m. Pacific time.
God bless you. Thank you so much for watching and listening.
(55:48):
For Brian and Cheryl Broderson from Echoesof Mercy.com, don't forget
the Sunday night at Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa, 6:30 night
of worship. I'm Brian Perez. Happy Thanksgiving from us here
at Pastor's Perspective.
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez.
It is the day before Thanksgiving and all through the house,
it smells really good, I can imagine. We've got Brian
and Cheryl Broderson here from uh Echoesof Mercy.com. They will
be answering the questions you have about the Bible, the
Christian faith, just about anything that's on your mind. We
(00:36):
will not be live tomorrow or Friday, so this is
your last chance this week.
Really this month to uh get your question answered. So
call in. Here's the number 888-564-6173. Brian and Cheryl,
Speaker 2 (00:50):
what's up? I know it's a surprise, surprise, surprise. It's
Brian and Cheryl
Speaker 1 (00:54):
on Wednesday. Yes,
Speaker 2 (00:55):
on a Wednesday. It's a
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Wednesday that feels
Speaker 2 (00:57):
like
Speaker 1 (00:57):
a
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Friday,
Speaker 1 (00:57):
yeah. Who
Speaker 2 (00:58):
usually co-hosts on Wednesday?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Wednesday is kind of Talbot Day, um, for the most part,
you know, once in a while they,
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I, I could
Speaker 1 (01:05):
pretend don't make it.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I went to Talbot.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Talbot Talbot. Well, you might have gone to Talbot earlier.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I've been on Talbot. I just haven't been to Talbott.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
If you go
down to MacArthur and just turn left, you'll go to Talbot.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
That's how I get to
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Costco. Yes,
uh, yeah, so that's what we normally do on Wednesday.
But like I was telling you on the way up here,
it's like I, I keep forgetting like what day is it? I,
I keep thinking it's
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Tuesday. You know why you keep forgetting because you're not
doing any of the cooking.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Is that right? That's it. So
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I was working on a broccoli casserole.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
No, I'm
not doing the cooking. I'm doing the store.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah, he is. He did. He had to do some
store
Speaker 1 (01:40):
runs, yeah, some shopping.
So one of our Talbot guests is usually Ed Stetzer,
and Ed gives the phone number a lot. He loves
giving out the phone number. Yes, so maybe you can
do that today, Cheryl.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Well, you want me to say 888-564-6173. Please call us. Yes,
Speaker 1 (01:58):
perfect. Yeah, that
Speaker 2 (01:59):
was my radio voice.
888-564-6173. Do not try this if you have a headache.
Uh, blindness at night, you know how they all those
really quick things.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Oh yes, the, um, legalese that they throw in at
the end,
Speaker 2 (02:17):
isn't
that crazy? I, they have to get people who can
talk really fast and read,
Speaker 1 (02:21):
or they just speed it up on digitally. That might
be how they do
it.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
No, because if they were speeding it up digitally, then
they'd all sound like Alvin and the Chipmunks.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
They have to do it in such a way that
it's still somewhat.
Understandable because otherwise
it would go
Speaker 2 (02:36):
you remember cassette tapes, right? Of course. So at the
Bible
Speaker 1 (02:41):
College,
Speaker 2 (02:42):
yes, at the Bible College they had to listen to
my dad's 2000 series, um, you know, Genesis through Revelation
on these cassette tapes, and it would be so funny
because you could tell these kids were listening to the
speeded up version and my dad
Speaker 1 (02:55):
sounded so high pitched.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
It's like, wow, because you know he talked slowly and very.
Um, deliberately, um, when he talked, and, and so when
you hear it on the, when I would hear it
speed it up, it was like hilarious, and I said, Dad,
I keep hearing you, you know, speed it up.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
He goes, I heard that too.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Fun, fun, fun. All
Speaker 1 (03:21):
right, so give us a call at 888-564-6173. You can
also send in your questions online, which is what Stephanie
did on the Kwave.com pastor's perspective page. You can also
scan the QR code if you're watching on Facebook, YouTube,
or Instagram, and that'll take you right to the page.
Here is what Stephanie writes, and I think Stephanie is
in Mexico, uh, cause I didn't recognize the zip code,
(03:45):
so I typed it in, and it might be in Mexico,
I don't know. But anyway, Stephanie writes.
We have the authority to cast evil spirits off of
another person, right, but if the person isn't willing because
of their free will, can we still cast them off?
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Uh, we believe in casting out. I haven't really heard
of casting out, but maybe that's just like a, a
preposition mix up. But I would say, um, no, no,
I think there has to be a willingness to want
to be free. What do you say, Brian?
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Um,
Speaker 2 (04:21):
I just realized you're wearing your LA Dodgers hat.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Yeah, I mean, I, you know, you think of the,
the different people, the, the samples, you know, that we
have in scripture of, of Jesus delivering people. I think
of the man in Gadera, you know, the severely demon
possessed man who breaks the chains and cuts himself and
You know, it doesn't seem like there was any.
(04:46):
Like volitional act on his part, you know, Jesus just
sort of bypasses the man and says to the demons,
what's your name? And then he deals strictly with the demons,
and then he says the demons, you know, come out
of him. So, um, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah,
Speaker 1 (05:02):
well.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
You know, going to that story, the fact that the
man was seated in his right mind at Jesus' feet
almost says to me that Jesus knew, and this is
Jesus too, knew he wanted to be free. And he
addressed the demons rather than the man inside because, I mean,
the man who was held captive.
You know, you didn't say, would you, would you like
to be free? Yeah, you
Speaker 1 (05:24):
know, Cheryl, once in a while I don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
You know, I,
Speaker 1 (05:27):
I'm so happy to hear that a lot lately. Well,
if you want to say it in
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Spanish, you say Joe nose
Speaker 1 (05:37):
nose nose. OK, so going by what you guys just said,
does that mean demons don't have free will because
Speaker 2 (05:43):
not to Jesus. I think that they probably inhabit who
they want, but I,
Speaker 1 (05:48):
I mean,
Speaker 2 (05:48):
we're not told enough.
demons, yeah, right,
Speaker 1 (05:50):
but I mean they obviously had enough free will to revolt. So,
but I mean, any, even with free will, it doesn't
mean you can resist God without him, you know what
I mean? We all have free will, but one day
God's gonna say, yeah, OK, here you go, you're going
over there and you know, you can't do anything about it.
But
Speaker 2 (06:09):
it is so, um.
Powerful to realize that Jesus had absolute authority when he
walked on earth over all demonic powers, you know, like
we talked about, or I think it was Char was
talking about when Jesus stood, no, it was you on
Sunday night. Jesus stood on the bow of the boat.
And commanded the waves and the, the storm, the winds
(06:32):
to stop and they did and how he had, you know,
he could say to those legions, you know, they're begging
for mercy, you know, you know, please don't, you know,
throw us into the abyss before our time. So Jesus
had that authority and they recognized it.
You know, and, and as James said, even the demons
(06:53):
believe in Trimble. So there's, there's, you know, Jesus has
the authority. So I, I know that, you know, she said,
you know, we have the power, right? And I think
that's like, um.
Yes, but it's actually the Lord's power obviously working in
and through us to deliver somebody and I think that um.
(07:16):
You, you don't, you don't wanna go around trying to
deliver people you really want to make sure that this
is something, um, you know, I know.
Whenever somebody when I saw like my, my dad, uh,
do exorcisms, and I bet people are shocked to find
out Chuck Smith did that, but when that would happen, um,
(07:40):
it was because the person came to him and said,
please help me and so.
Um, I do remember something like that, you know, that
they had come to the church for help or they've
gone to one of the, um, what I call hippie houses,
you know, needing and wanting help, so.
Right. And you know what's interesting is the people who come,
(08:02):
it's not a mental problem they knew it was demonic
they knew because of something in their past that they
had opened themselves up to these spirits and they wanted
freedom so there was a a lady who came to
our store, our chapel store, and um she's kind of
(08:24):
strange looking um.
She had painted blood going down both sides of her
lips and yeah, they're kind of like, can I help you?
And she's like, yes, I, I have some demons I
want to be delivered from. So they called the pastors
and they went over, they prayed for her and she said,
thank you very much. I feel much better and left.
It's kind of like an interesting, like, OK, yes, at
(08:47):
the church you see just about everything, don't you? Yes,
Speaker 1 (08:49):
never a dull day at the chapel store of Calvary Chapel,
Costa Mesa where Bibles are also 35% off and
Speaker 2 (08:54):
you want to get your Christmas present. Yes,
Speaker 1 (08:57):
yes, indeed,
Speaker 2 (08:58):
and maybe get delivered at the same time.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
We should make a commercial. That, that'll be how we, uh,
write that commercial. No, I'm joking about that totally. Stephanie,
thank you for sending in your question online. Let's go
to the phones now, 888-564-6173. We're gonna begin with Debbie
who is watching us on YouTube. Hi, Debbie, in Pasadena. Hey,
it's the day before Thanksgiving, Debbie, what are you thankful for?
(09:22):
Yes, hi, I'm grateful for the Kwave team and that
the Brodersons are there today. Uh, and thank you. I
wanted to, uh, direct a question to Cheryl if I might.
I
Speaker 2 (09:35):
love it.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Yeah, just so that you know, the YouTube and the phone,
there's a significant delay. Oh yes, that's on purpose. Well,
I'm trying not to look over at the screen.
That'll drive you batty. So, uh, yeah, you can, you
can always go back and watch the screen later. So, uh, just, yeah,
listen on your phone.
Well, um, I know that, uh, Cheryl, uh, was raised
(10:00):
in a Christian home and probably like me, uh, she's,
she's known or been aware of or, uh, felt, uh,
you know, dedicated to Jesus all of her life. Um, and, um,
the thing is, whenever I try to share with someone,
(10:22):
It, it, it's, uh, I'm not spirit-filled. I'm, I don't
have the power and, uh, I just wondered, is that
just a special spiritual gift that God gives to some Christians?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I think sometimes, but I don't feel like I have
necessarily the gift of evangelism, and yet I found myself
sharing Jesus before, um.
I had a friend named Mary um Peeples who's just
one of my favorite people in the whole wide
world.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Is it because her name was Mary Peeples?
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Maybe so, but, um, she was, she's brilliant. She was
a lawyer and she's just got this brilliant mind and
a great teacher. And so we asked her at one
of our conferences or women's conferences, will you just do
like a workshop on how to evangelize because I knew
that was one of her favorite things to do and
(11:16):
she said.
I'd love to. And, and so I went to that
and she said, you know, I realized that people aren't
interested in facts and figures. She said, facts and figures
did not bring me to Jesus. It was the love.
It was the kindness, and it was, you know, the
offer of salvation. And she said, I find that just
simply telling my testimony is what works best.
(11:40):
And I have found that, you know, most of my
opportunities to witness have been on a plane and I
will often say, well, I've, you know, I've known Jesus
all my life and people get curious when you say
something like that. And I remember coming back from England, uh,
time before last and
They moved my seat and I really didn't want to move,
(12:02):
but this dad really wanted to sit next to his
daughter and I was like, I cannot keep this dad
from his eight year old. So I traded seats and
he tried to get the guy who I ended up
sitting next to to trade seats and he didn't want
to and and I had to sit in bulkhead, which
I don't like. But anyway, I, um, I just started
talking to him, um, and you know, something came up
(12:26):
and I just started sharing with him.
The whole time and he was a Hindu, but he
was kind of, you know, he was living in England,
so I, I knew it couldn't be too um
Too serious. And then he was saying to me, I
wish you would talk to my sister. She's really, really
into spiritual things. In fact, we're gonna go see the Harry,
(12:47):
we're going to uh Universal Studios. We want to see
the Harry Potter, um, thing. And I said, oh yeah,
that does show like an interest in spiritual things. So
the next thing I knew, I had shared with him
for about an hour.
And his sister came up and they traded places and
she wanted to talk to me about, you know, what
I have been talking to her brother about and mainly
(13:08):
I was just answering questions and I really was just
enjoying it, you know, just answering questions and.
And I, I actually did not initiate anything. They kept
asking me questions and I just kept answering. And it
really is. But that's, that those are the times that
you just know the Lord's in it and it was like,
(13:31):
I didn't have to search for the answer. It was
right there. I just knew exactly what to say. So
I knew that the spirit, you know, Jesus said, you
don't have to like prepare beforehand.
You know what you're going to say because in that
moment the spirit will give you the words that you
need and that's what I found that the spirit was
just kind of supplying with me. And you know what
(13:52):
people want most is they want to feel heard and loved.
And if we do that, I think that's one of
the best open doors. In fact, again, most of my
opportunities for sharing Jesus have been on airplanes and I
remember another time on an airplane.
I sat next to this lady and she said, you know,
what were you doing in Virginia? And I said, oh,
(14:14):
I did a women's retreat. She said, what kind of
women's retreat? And I said, oh, I teach the Bible.
She said, I've always been very curious about the Bible.
Can I ask you some questions? And I said, yes.
But I said, first I want to know what you
are doing. So,
She kind of started pouring out her story to me and,
you know, where her life's going and that she's kind
of at this dead end and she was a really,
(14:35):
really brilliant woman. And so she was also, uh, she
trained teachers. So I was asking her all sorts of questions.
So she said, OK, I've answered enough of your questions.
Now it's time for you to answer mine.
And I began to answer one question after another, and
she just wanted to know all about Jesus. She wanted
to know about the hope and she wanted to know
if she got a Bible, kind of Bible she should
(14:56):
get and where she should read. And I remember sharing
the Lord when Brian fell asleep on an airplane and
sitting next to this girl who was an actress, and, uh,
believe me, we were not in first class. We were
on one of those planes where everybody's equal on the
way to uh Cyprus to do a missions conference.
And I sit next to her and she's telling me
(15:16):
she's an actress and I said, oh, that's interesting. I said, um,
in a movie just recently, um, Kelsey, uh, Grammer played
my father in a movie called The Jesus Revolution. She goes, What?
You know, who was your father? So I used that
as my inroad to start sharing about Jesus and what
the movie was about. And then she said, I've been
(15:38):
thinking I need to read the Bible. What Bible would
you recommend?
And I said, well, you know, because she's not a believer,
she's just starting out. I said I would try the
New Living Translation. She's like, 00, show me that on Amazon.
So she had to open up her Amazon app and
I had to type it in for her and she's
like I'm ordering this and
She ended up just peppering me with questions and I
(16:01):
just answered and I wanted to sleep so desperately, but
she wouldn't let me. She slept for you. He did.
He slept for both of us, but she had so
many questions and they were good questions and I had
the opportunity to answer.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
I wasn't, I wasn't asleep. I was praying for you
the whole time.
It's, but occasionally snoring. I wanted to keep my eyes
closed so
Speaker 2 (16:23):
I can really pray, go into deep, deep intercession. Now
Speaker 1 (16:27):
one of the things about evangelism though is people are
afraid that someone might ask us those questions that we
don't have the answers to. So in your case, you know,
Speaker 2 (16:36):
the Lord gives you the answers in the thing, or
you could say, I don't know, but I know there's
an answer, but I don't know the answer. But I
know that God knows the answer, and I know that
there was a time when I didn't have an answer
and
The Lord spoke to me, you know, mainly what I
do is I talk about my own experience with Jesus. Like, um,
I sit next to one guy and I remember just saying, well,
(16:58):
as a Christian, I think this way, you know, um,
I sat next to this one guy, this is a
different one. I sat down next to him and he goes,
you know, um, I said something and he said, I'm gay.
And in my community, you know, you hate us. And
I'm like, well, I believe every person was made in
the image of God, so I don't hate anybody.
And I said, and I believe that God is not
(17:21):
willing or doesn't want anyone to die and go to hell,
but he wants everyone to go to heaven and share
it with him. And I said, in, in my experience,
I have found that Jesus is my community and I
just shared with him just the love of God and
just I said, you know, I don't have any expectations
for how you live when you don't know Jesus, you know, and.
(17:43):
I only have expectations because I know Jesus and because
I know God, I talked to him and I want
to please him. But if you don't know God, I
can totally understand that. So, we ended up having this
incredible conversation and he was going to New York for
a funeral. I was going to New York to visit
my daughter. So, he kind of said to me, do
(18:04):
you mind not talking to me anymore? And I'm like, no,
that's fine. I'll, I'll stop. I'm, I'm really good at stopping.
Be too and so I just didn't talk to him
for the rest of the flight and he said a
couple of things like, could you, um, when the guy
comes by, could you make sure I get some water
and I said sure and I didn't, you know, I
didn't talk anymore. Yeah, I didn't answer anymore. I didn't,
you know, but we got to the, um, airport and
(18:27):
I went to use the restroom when I came out
I saw him and I said, oh, I hope you
have a wonderful time in New York and then I said, oh,
I'm so sorry.
You're going to a funeral. I said, I just hope
that you, you have some really good memories and, and
that this time is, is, um, gives you a chance
to really say goodbye and to grieve and yet you
(18:50):
know rejoice that you had the opportunity to know your
friend and he's like, you know, in my life I've
never met anyone like you and I said.
That's a good thing, right? And he goes, no, that's,
I mean it. I mean it sincerely.
I, I really, really did enjoy our conversation. Thank you.
Thank you. And I'm like, good, you know, I'm glad
(19:13):
we met. And, you know, I left. And so, um,
I think I did tell him I pray for him.
But I that another time I got one more, one more.
I was in an exercise class, but I was in
an exercise class and this woman, her husband
Speaker 1 (19:31):
had
had cancer charge of your program
Speaker 2 (19:34):
here. Can I just do this when I.
Promise I'll stop after this, but, um, I remember you
Speaker 1 (19:39):
being like the guy on the plane, Brian, can you
just not, I am, you know, can you stop talking
to me?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
But anyway, um, I was, I was, um, at an
exercise class and this woman came in really grieved and
said her husband had just been diagnosed with lung cancer.
And I just kind of, you know, listened to her.
And when class was almost over, I went up to
her and I said, look, I love to pray. You know,
can you give me your husband's name and I can
pray for him and just add him to my prayer time.
(20:06):
And she said, I would love that and appreciate that
so much. And I said, I'll be praying for you too,
for strength. So after that, she started coming in every
day and giving me things to pray for, specifics, like
we went to the doctor, this is what the doctor said,
this is what we need. So I pray and as
the Lord would have it, he began to improve. And
she came in one day and she said, he's in remission.
(20:28):
And I really think it's because Cheryl prayed and then
everyone in the class was giving me prayer requests. So
those are just different inroads.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
That's awesome. Debbie, what do you think?
Well, I, I wanted to have another question if it's OK. Sure.
One of the things that falls flat when I'm talking
to someone.
Um, and maybe I can direct this one to Brian. Yeah, I'm,
I'm feeling really neglected. Yeah, Brian feels left out, so maybe, uh, yes, well,
(21:01):
like if I say to someone, you know, that Christianity.
Isn't just a religion. It's, it's a relationship. It's a
personal relationship. And, and, and usually that just falls flat.
People just don't get it. And I said,
Well, you're praying to a person, and I don't know,
(21:23):
maybe you have some tips. It's funny that you said that, Debbie,
because I was thinking of that phrase earlier this week,
how that was one of the phrases that we were
always encouraged to use whenever people would bring that up.
We would say, well, Christianity is not a religion, it's
a relationship, and then you kind of think about it
and maybe that's something that we talk about amongst each
(21:43):
other at church. It's, it's churches. Well, I think, I,
I think it's a
I mean, you might reconsider how you, how you word it,
but I think the idea is really, really important because
that
Speaker 2 (21:57):
captured your heart, didn't it?
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Yeah, I mean, you know, the idea that you actually
would have a relationship with God. I mean, that's religion
doesn't give you that opportunity. You know, religion gives you like, OK,
do this and don't do that and you know, come
here at this time and go through these steps or
processes or whatever. And and it's in many ways it's
(22:23):
it's impersonal. The the God that you're
Whatever you're doing, worshiping or whatever the case is, you
don't have any contact with them or you don't sense
like you have any contact with them. And yeah, for me,
just the idea that, wait, God is a person that
I'm gonna have a relationship with, like you have a
relationship with a person. I think that is revolutionary and
(22:46):
I think that it's something that we should say to
people and I, you know, here's the thing too, Debbie,
I would say is when you say it falls flat.
Um, just remember this, that God's word is living and powerful.
Remember that God's word doesn't return to him void, and
(23:06):
remember that it's the spirit of God that takes the
word of God and quickens the hearts of people. So
maybe at the moment you feel like this has just
fallen flat, and believe me, I've had those kinds of
experiences myself, uh, but you never know what's happening. That's
the thing, you know, because we are.
Like Jesus, he said a sower went out and he
(23:26):
sowed seed. A farmer went out and scattered seed. That's
what he's saying. That's what we're doing. We're scattering seed
and sometimes the seed's already been scattered and we're, we're
watering it, just we're coming by and we're just sprinkling
a little bit of water on it. And then once
in a while.
We get to actually pick the fruit, you know, and
(23:47):
those are the times where you're just like, oh my gosh,
this was amazing. Or you're maybe you're so close you
could see the fruit's just about to fall off the tree, but,
you know, maybe just a few more days, and then
somebody else does it. So I think if we think
of it in a, in a process rather than an instantaneous, like,
you know, I remember years ago when I was when
(24:08):
I was first beginning to pastor, um,
There was this deacon guy in the church and, and
he had Cheryl knows exactly what you're talking about, yeah,
and you know he had all these ideas about how
the church should run and you know what I should
do and um so I, you know, I would preach
(24:29):
and and, you know, give whatever the message was teaching
on on Sunday morning.
And then afterward he would often come to me. He goes,
you know, brother Brian, you just didn't close the deal.
You didn't close the deal. And uh yeah, you didn't
seal the deal, right? And, and I just look at
him like, you know, would you just go away? Um,
and the, the thing is, you know, I believe God's
(24:52):
the one who seals the deal. And um sometimes he
uses us to do that and sometimes he uses us
in the process. So don't.
Don't be too hard on yourself. And one last thing.
Pray even when you're talking to somebody. I do that
when I'm starting to talk to somebody or talking to somebody,
I'm like, Lord, I don't know what to say. Lord,
(25:15):
I just pray that you'd help. Lord, I pray that
you would do something here. And, uh, yeah, sometimes they
just start humming and people don't know that I'm saying,
God help me right now.
So does that help between Cheryl and I, I think
we
Speaker 2 (25:29):
got one more thing to add.
I think, yeah, I think when you say it's a
relationship you can also talk about how it's a relationship
and I think pray prayer, you know, while we pray,
I think that makes people just think of formal formula.
If they're religious formalized uh mantras and so I think
(25:53):
when you say I talked to God and that's what
I like to say, well, I talk to God every day.
I have conversations with him and I'll have people go,
did he talk back? You're like.
Yeah, you know, mainly he talks through the Bible and
he'll remind me of a promise. Alright. But
Speaker 1 (26:10):
it, but it is true because, you know, you didn't
grow up like I did. So I grew up in
a system where we had prayers that were already
Written, you know, they were written out for you basically
and then you, you repeat the prayer. So that doesn't
give you any sense like you're actually communicating with somebody
you're just, you know, saying something and hoping God's hearing it.
(26:32):
So what we're saying is it's a conversational, it's a
relational thing you're talking to God and I can attest
that Cheryl is talking to God all the time, you know,
she's in the kitchen making something and like, oh Lord.
You know, help me with this, show me how to
do this, you know, and it's just a habit of
her life, which is a great
habit.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Well, my mom, we'd be in the middle of a
conversation and if it got intense like um we were
finding out that somebody was in trouble or sick, my
mom would just start praying and you'd be like, oh,
we're praying this is about God, you know, and the
eyes could be open, she could be drinking coffee, but
she was, she was bringing me right into the throne
(27:13):
room with her.
And we were bringing that person before God. And that's
how I was raised, you know, if I told my dad, oh,
my back's hurting, next thing I know, I had a
hand on my shoulder and he was praying for the
healing of my back. It's just how I was raised
and so it comes very naturally to me. But for
(27:34):
somebody like who wasn't raised, that kind of um.
Easy conversation, just taking it to Jesus, taking everything to Jesus,
they don't understand. So sometimes I think you have to
tell them a little bit about how you do it
and what you're doing. Again, it's your testimony. You tell
(27:57):
them how you talk to God. Tell them about what
you prayed for and how you pray. And I think
that that makes a difference because again, we're so used
to the.
These phrases like prayer and redemption and relationship, they all
mean something to us. But those who are outside the faith,
they don't understand it like we do, you know, like
(28:18):
what's a relationship? He loves me and I love him.
We tell each other that we love each other. He
leaves me love notes. They're in the Bible, you know,
they're scriptures that he'll whisper to me by the Holy
Spirit and I'll know.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Speaking of scattering seeds, all the stories you told Cheryl about,
you know, the airplane and everything else, none of them
really right then and there led to a conversion. So
that's what we need to remember, that, that every now
and then, yeah, we'll get to meet someone, you never
see able to do that. Yeah, that deacon is so upset.
That's what I'd always tell her at the end of
the flight, Cheryl.
That was good, but you
didn't.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Hey, at least we landed
Speaker 1 (28:54):
the
Speaker 2 (28:54):
plane.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yes,
you didn't land the plane, honey. You know, you were
just on the runway, you know, here's, here's, um, when we,
when we lived in London, we did a lot of outreach,
you know, and we would, we would go out to
public places and we would do, you know, music and
stuff and.
And initially the people in our church were super freaked
(29:15):
out about that, like oh my gosh, because they really
thought like I gotta go out there and I gotta
make somebody believe in Jesus, you know, that that's what
they thought. So I would just say, you know what,
there's people out there that are all different sort of
distances away from Jesus. Maybe today you're just gonna bring
them one step, but they've got 100 more, but just
that's that's all you're doing.
(29:36):
Great conversation, Debbie. Thank you for your question. We've got
to go to break now. We'll be back with more
of the questions you've got about the Bible, the Christian faith, etc. etc.
888-564-6173 is our number. We're gonna be here until 4
o'clock and we would love to talk to you cause
uh this is our last program of the month. So
call in 888-564-6173. Joey, we will talk to you next
(30:01):
here on Pastor's Perspective.
Hey, we're back on Pastor's Perspective. If you've got a
(30:21):
question for Brian and Cheryl Broderson from Echoesof Mercy.com, the
phone number to call is
Cheryl, what's the number?
Speaker 2 (30:29):
The number is 888-564-6173.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Thank you.
You could say
888-564-888-564-6173.
That's kind of how Ed says it,
Speaker 2 (30:46):
you know, that just, uh, our grandson, uh, our oldest grandson,
when he was like 5, he goes.
Hello. It was at uh Thanksgiving. Hello, my name is Mr. Smith.
His name was actually last name is Smith because, and
I'm from England. And then he started doing a voice
like that, you know, 888-564-6173, and he didn't drop it
(31:10):
like for hours. So we just, you know, we're talking
to Mr. Smith, you know, it
Speaker 1 (31:17):
was fun. He was hoping that we'd ask him to
come on the radio. Yes, yes, yes, we're hiring, so,
you know, bring him on.
OK, uh, 888-564-6173. By the way, this Sunday, what's going on, Brian?
This Sunday, we, well, we finished the Book of Acts
last Sunday night, which was great. We were in it
for about 8 months. And so this, so the first.
(31:43):
Sunday of the month, we're we're doing setting aside for
kind of a worship night in prayer.
And I thought this Sunday was the first Sunday of
the month, but it's not. It's the last Sunday of
the month, but we're gonna do the worship night and
prayer anyway, and then we're gonna come back on the
7th and the 14th and do more kind of Christmassy stuff.
So yeah, so, so that's we're trying to set aside that,
(32:04):
you know, once a month where we can just, just
together pray, worship, seek the Lord.
And so that's what we'll be doing this Sunday night,
6:30 at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa in the Fellowship hall. Nice.
Come on up. Get more details at backtobasicsradio.com/live. Here is Joey,
who is calling in from Orange, listening on the Kwave app.
(32:26):
Thank you, Joey, for downloading the app and thank you
for calling in today. What are you thankful for, by
the way, cause it's almost Thanksgiving.
Uh, for my family, my kids.
Yes,
Speaker 2 (32:38):
that's a good one.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Yeah.
So what's your question is, um, I know that the, uh,
you know, I know that lying is wrong and that
the verse, uh, where Jesus said, if you deny me
before men, I'll deny you before my Father, but I
was just scrolling through Instagram.
The night and uh I came across this video where
of the um the 21 uh Coptic Christians uh got
(33:04):
crucified for, you know, deny not denying their faith beheaded
um yeah, the guys in the orange jumpsuits that got beheaded, yeah, yeah, yes. So, uh,
when that, when I saw that really, it got me thinking.
I was like, you know.
Would God accept the concept of faking it to make it.
(33:25):
What do you mean by that? Yeah, in what sense?
Like, uh, say for example, one of the 21 said, oh,
I believe, I'll believe in Islam or whatever, and I'll
deny Jesus or whatever, and he got, he gets to
be alive.
You know, so he pretty much faked it until he
made it and then like say like after he was
(33:48):
let go, he escaped and
Speaker 2 (33:51):
you know that's quite a scenario. You know what? I,
Speaker 1 (33:54):
no, no, no, but it got me wondering, you know,
that's that's a fake until you make it kind of yeah,
but
Speaker 2 (34:00):
what I, what I think though instead is that you
receive a dying grace.
I think that um.
I think though that Peter talks about how the spirit
of what is it grace and.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
The spirit
of glory and God rests upon those who are persecuted
Speaker 2 (34:23):
and so there is, there is just something, um, that
I think gives you the strength to go through, you know, um.
I went through some persecution when I was in high
school for Jesus and it would have been really easy
to just kind of say well you know that's my
dad's thing and I could have gotten out of it
(34:46):
but all of a sudden I felt this empowerment and
you know, call it grace or whatever and I just
stood firm and said no and I started just sharing
with this whole class about.
You know, why I, you know, it was had to
do with the Theodore Rothke poem and why I didn't
believe when you die that you actually die. And I
(35:06):
just started sharing with everybody. And I remember the teacher
telling me, you know, Cheryl, you sound crazy and, you know,
just these kids just got all over at me. They
were yelling at me, they were mad at me. And
I remember just walking out of that class going, OK,
you know.
You know, but I remember at the time just feeling
empowered at the class, but the minute I got out
(35:28):
the door, I was just like, wow, you know, do
I come back to school tomorrow or not? And two
girls came up to me and they said, thank you
for doing that. Thank you for standing for Jesus. We weren't,
we weren't strong enough, but now we think we are
because we watched you do it and we believe just
like you. And one of the girls asked if she
could go to church with me and became a really
(35:49):
close friend.
Then this is uh this is what's really great about
that story years later that teacher that had been so
terrible to me, um.
He, he got cancer and he was still teaching at
the high school I went to and a friend of
mine had taken a job also as an English teacher
(36:11):
there and she met him and he asked, something came
up that she was a Christian and that she went
to Calvary Chapel and he said, do you know Cheryl Smith?
And she said, I not only know her, I stayed, I,
you know, stayed with her when I was in England.
I visited her. I know her really well. And he said,
will you tell her?
That because of her I'm born again and I'm not
(36:34):
afraid to die because I know I'm gonna go to
heaven and she needs to know that because of her
I'm born again and the whole conversation that day in
that class had been on heaven and you just think,
you know, the Lord.
Knows, so I don't think any of those men.
Even considered faking it. I think that they were, um,
(36:57):
empowered by the Holy Spirit to actually die for Jesus.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
But
here's my question. Are, are you asking Joey like if
somebody did that?
Would they be forgiven if somebody was to do that?
Would they be forgiving? Is that what you're asking? Yes, yes. Would,
would God be like, would he forgive that? Yeah, yes,
of course, God, God would forgive any sin, you know.
(37:23):
So I mean, remember Peter, uh, Peter denied Jesus three times, and,
you know, under pressure, they said, um, you're, aren't you
one of his disciples? No, no, not me. No, I
don't know the man.
And then, you know, he swore with an oath that
he'd never met Jesus. So, and then of course Jesus
gives him the three opportunities to um
(37:46):
Confess him. Um, but this is an interesting thing in
church history when the Roman Emperor Diocletian brought an intense
persecution against the Christians in 303.
Um, there were many that buckled under the pressure and
denied their faith.
(38:08):
And once the persecution passed, uh, some of them felt
horrible about that, and they wanted to come back to
the church. And some in the church said, nope, mm mm,
that's it, you know, you, you, you denied Jesus, you're out.
And others were like, well, you know, I think God
would have us to be merciful. So there was actually
(38:28):
like a, a kind of a schism in the church
over whether they could be welcomed back in.
And so what is this era called? What is it?
I think people might want to read up on. Well,
this is, uh, 303 was the Diocletian persecution. Yeah, so,
but it was at that time, yeah. And, um, and
there was a, there was a group that was really,
(38:50):
they were really kind of radical, and they were like,
no way these guys are out. They denied the faith. They,
they can't come back. And, um, yeah, so it was
quite interesting really.
Wow. All right, Joey, thank you for your phone call
today on Pastor's Perspective. Now we'll talk to Daniel. Nope,
Daniel hung up. OK, so let's go to Tyler in
(39:11):
San Diego. Hey, Tyler, welcome to Pastor's Perspective. What are
you thankful for?
Tyler, you there?
Tyler, do you, did you press mute on your phone?
I did. You did. How did I know?
It happens every time. It happens to everybody. Yes, yes,
(39:31):
you're not alone.
Yeah, so, uh, thankful for my wife and kids and, uh,
the Lord's mercies, yay.
So what's your question for us today?
My question is in regards to 1 John 5:16-17.
I was just having a little bit of a hard
time understanding.
(39:52):
Um, part of it saying that there is sin that
leads to death and sin not leading to death. I
believe that's verse 17, and then right before that, it says, uh,
I did not say that he should pray.
About that, I think that's referring to the sin that's
leading to death. I just some clarity would be helpful. OK, well,
(40:13):
let me just say this first of all, Tyler, you
are not the first person to wonder about the meaning
of this passage. And secondly, let me say that, um,
nobody knows exactly what it means, at least as far
as I've been able to ascertain. I've taught
Speaker 2 (40:30):
with certainty, you mean.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Yeah, I, there are there there's
some ideas, um, but all of them are difficult. So
the first thing that people ask is about, um, what
is the sin to death? And so some say, uh,
(40:51):
the sin of death is like say Samson. Samson committed
a sin unto death because, you know, he continued to
neglect his commitment to the Lord and then was deceived
by Delilah, and then he was taken captive by the
Philistines and then he died prematurely. So that's a sin
unto death. Um, Saul committed a sin unto death. So
(41:14):
you know, people will give different examples and they'll say, um, this,
this is what a sin unto death is. But then,
but then John says, I don't say to pray for that.
And so I, I think the hard thing there is like, well,
how do you know? So I was just reading in
um 2 Chronicles about um the, the longest reigning king
(41:37):
and the most wicked king of Judah. His name was Manasseh,
and he reigned for 55 years and he introduced every
kind of idolatry and wickedness and evil into Israel. He
sacrificed his children to the pagan gods. Now.
But then the crazy thing is God.
(41:58):
Sends him off into captivity to Babylon and he repents.
And he comes back and then he's trying to kind
of undo what he did, you know. Now I guarantee
that when you looked at Manasseh, even more than Saul
or even more than Samson, you would be tempted to
think this is the sin to death. I mean, this
guy has fully embraced the idolatry of the nations around him.
(42:21):
He's set up like an idol in the temple in Jerusalem.
So my whole point is this, if it's that kind
of death, like physical death, it's really hard to know
when somebody is committing a sin unto death. I think
that the sin unto death, the closest thing that I,
I think we're talking about here is what we also
(42:41):
sometimes call the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
It's the, it's the rejection of Jesus Himself all the
way and I think that's what John is talking about.
But like I said, if you read 10, uh, commentaries
on First John, you'd get at least 7 different takes
on this.
So, what do you think, Tyler?
(43:04):
Right, yeah, I mean, that's what I thought it was me,
but then why would it say don't.
Don't pray for those. Yeah, that, that's a question. Why, why, yeah, and,
and you know, I thought before that, um, you know.
You, you, in one sense, you can't pray for them
because in the sense of, oh, God bless them or whatever,
(43:25):
you almost have to pray a different kind of a prayer,
like God opened their eyes or something like that. So, yeah,
that's the hard part. And I honestly don't know exactly
why it says that. You know,
Speaker 2 (43:36):
it's interesting
Twice in Jeremiah though, God said quit praying for these people.
I won't listen because they've just gone too far and
but it's God who knows the heart, right? So yeah,
interesting passage that nobody's quite sure
about.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
Yeah, there, you know, there, I think we would be
better off if we just did recognize and admit there
are some passages we just don't.
Yeah,
fully understand,
Speaker 2 (44:02):
right,
Speaker 1 (44:02):
because I don't
Speaker 2 (44:03):
have, well, I'm, I'm in Zachariah right now, and you know,
I think there are some passages that are wait and see,
you know, and I, I think that, you know, because
everyone expected a warrior, the Messiah to be a warrior
and didn't expect the first coming, that it would be in,
you know, humility and would be, you know, result in
(44:26):
death and then a resurrection.
They missed him and so I think that that could
possibly happen with prophecy if we get too much in
our minds, uh, what it should look like or what
we imagine it to look like you don't wanna miss the,
the real thing, you know. So anyway, yes, it's sometimes
just to leave it open and say, Lord, I don't
(44:47):
understand this
Speaker 1 (44:48):
and I, and I've actually taught this passage a few
times and I think
Speaker 2 (44:51):
differently every time I've sat through those studies.
In fact, I wasn't quite sure which one you were
gonna choose, door number 1, door 2, or door number 3.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
All right, Tyler, thanks for your phone call today on
Pastor's Perspective, and now we'll go to Harold in San Bernardino.
You there, Harold?
Yes, I am. I'm kind of a little confused because
I'm listening to my call on the
radio. Yeah, turn your radio off. I hate saying turn
your radio off because I always want you guys listening
to K-wave, but when you call into pastor's perspective, turn
off the radio, you'll hear the program over the phone,
(45:23):
and you'll hear us talking to you over the phone.
So what's your question for us, Harold?
Um, is Miss Cheryl, I think the question is directed
toward her. Is she the lady that I heard before on,
on your radio station that says,
She doesn't believe in generational curses. Is she the one?
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Yes, because in Proverbs it says that the curse will
not fall on the innocent, like a bird, uh, like
a flitting bird, um, and something, so the curse will
not fall on the innocent.
So I, I don't believe in generational curses, however, and
(46:05):
this is where I made it, however, however, I believe
in generational propensities.
So to speak, like, um, you know, I'll tell you
the truth. I had a great grandmother who was just
a liar. I mean, she just lied. She's, she's a
liar and um.
(46:27):
I have family members that have that same propensity and I,
I asked my dad one time I said, Dad, I
think that you come from a family of, of liars
on your dad's side. He goes, yes I do and
it was interesting how it was something, you know, um,
(46:48):
my grandfather was the first person on that side to
be saved for.
You know, uh, I maybe ever and so, um,
He, you know, but he struggled with resisting lying, and I,
and so did his mother and, and my father was
(47:09):
the most honest man I, I knew. I don't, I
don't think he ever, I think he was like George Washington.
He never told a lie, but uh the thing was,
is that, um,
And so I do believe that there's a generational propensity,
not necessarily a curse, because I think if you walk
with the Lord, uh, whatever that propensity is, if you
(47:30):
recognize it and take it to the Lord, it can
be broken. So that's how I see it. So it,
it could be you could say, oh, that's semantical, Cheryl,
aren't we talking about the same thing, but um.
I think a curse is something that you can't resist
or claim victory over in the name of Jesus, whereas
(47:51):
I believe a propensity is something that you can be
free of if you recognize it as this is a
sin and I don't want this in my life and Jesus,
I submit this part of me to you. So that's
how I see it.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
OK, I see your point now, but ma'am, if you
have met the families, I have met with the whole family, family,
and it's a, it's a verse in the Bible that
talks about, I think, um, God has saved the, the
Jews from the Egyptians, and he, um, he made, um,
(48:29):
a promise that the older people.
will not see the promised land, but the children, the
younger people, we are suffering in that, yes,
Speaker 2 (48:38):
yes.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
Is that not a generational curse?
Speaker 2 (48:42):
Well, Caleb and Joshua got to go in. So it's
not a full generational curse. Brian.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
Yeah, I mean, and then it was, it, it wasn't
a curse that passed from the guilty party
Speaker 2 (48:53):
to the next party, the
Speaker 1 (48:54):
children to the innocent. The guilty party were going to
suffer the consequences of their, of their sin. So they
had to die in the wilderness, but their children.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
Who
Speaker 1 (49:05):
they
said we don't wanna be in this wilderness because our
kids are gonna die out here. God said, no, actually
they're gonna be the ones to go in into the
promised land.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
They're the ones are gonna be blessed and
Speaker 1 (49:15):
there's, there's several passages where the Lord says, um, no, no, um.
A son will not be uh punished for the father's sins,
nor will the father be punished for the son's sins,
but everyone will bear their own sin. So the generational thing,
of course you do have sin that passes.
(49:37):
Like Cheryl was saying, you have sin that passes down
from generation to generation, and that causes all kinds of problems,
but it's not a curse in the sense that it's
something that can't be dealt with. So Jesus breaks the
curse and then people are set
free.
Speaker 2 (49:52):
You know, I, I wanna say something right here though, um.
When I first met um my mother-in-law Carol, she began
to tell me just her life story, and it was
one tragedy after another, um, losing her mom when she
was only, um, 18 years, uh, 20 years old, 1820
(50:14):
years old, and just, um, even before that and just
it was so tragic. I found myself crying as she's
telling me all of this, but then she tells me
she received Jesus.
And that, that it stopped it stopped, it began to
turn and you know one of those things, you know, even,
(50:34):
you know, Brian, I was saying Brian, all these things
are in your past he's like, yeah, yeah, and that
was part of what happened like Brian's when we got married,
we used to always get in fights on Christmas because
he would go in this grumpy, grumpy mood.
And it was because he told me he had miserable
Christmases growing up because his uncles would always get drunk
and get in a fight and the police would be
(50:55):
called and everybody was fighting all the family members and
I'm like, well, my Christmases were never like that, so
get happy now, you know, because I had such wonderful Christmases.
My mom was at her best, you know, my grand,
my um aunt would come over from Arizona.
I mean my Christmases were one of the happiest times
(51:16):
of my life, the decorations, everything, and church life and that,
but that's what I saw with Brian and with Brian's
mom is Jesus broke the curse. The, the trajectory without
God is always gonna be dark and lead downhill, but
when you put Jesus into the picture, he changes everything, so.
(51:38):
Um, you know, and we're told that he, he took
the curse for us that we might receive the blessing
that was due him, you know, he became a curse,
as cursed as everyone who hangs on a tree.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
Harold, thank you for your phone call today here on
Pastor's Perspective. Wait, did I ask Harold what he's thankful
for on this day before Thanksgiving?
Oh, I'm gonna tell you, I'm thankful for being here,
being able to talk to you with my breath and
blood running warm in my body.
Speaker 2 (52:05):
I love that, Harold.
Speaker 1 (52:07):
That's awesome.
We just end the show now. We're thankful for that. Yes,
for sure. Uh, let's talk to Xavier in Anaheim, listening
on FM 107.9 K wave. Hello, Xavier, thanks for calling
us today.
hello, hello,
my name is, my name is Xavier and my question
(52:27):
is
um.
What's
what's the best survival for a nine year old?
Speaker 2 (52:34):
Well, there's quite a few, um, I like the Living
Bible and they eat, um, but they also have a
Bible that's like comic books. Do you remember the name
of that Bible? And it reads like a comic book,
but it's, it's really great pictures and it's, it's the
real words, but it's just putting them with the people that, um.
(52:55):
That have done it. Oh, it's called the Action Bible.
So there's, um, the action Bible is a great Bible.
My kids used to have, um, the action Bible when
they were young and then there's, um, again, I like
the living translation. So, uh, there's a lot of um
great Bible studies there, but I do like the action Bible.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
Thank
Speaker 2 (53:18):
you for answering my
Speaker 1 (53:19):
question.
You bet. Now, Xavier, do you happen to have pen
and paper with you there somewhere?
Yeah. Because I wanna give you another phone number to call.
It's for the chapel store at Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa,
and uh we were talking about them earlier, and uh
you can uh call them because they know about all
the books and all the Bibles that are out there,
(53:41):
and you can ask them this question and they would
tell you for sure. They might even have the action
Bible there right now at the chapel store, and you
live in uh Anaheim, so you're not too far from
us here in uh Costa Mesa, border of Santa Ana. So, uh, you,
you ready for that number?
Yes. OK, here it is, 714.
(54:02):
540
2941.
All right. Do you wanna repeat it back to me
to make sure you, I said it right?
714.
540
941-22941.
(54:25):
No problem. Yep, that's it.
All right, Xavier, thanks for calling
us today.
Speaker 2 (54:32):
I just learned something. Brian Perez knows another phone number
besides the K-wave phone number.
Speaker 1 (54:40):
Was he looking at it on the screen, or was
it in his head? You know, the Chapel store phone number.
Do you know this 714-979-4422? That's the Calvary Chapel Costa
Mesa office. That is right and has been forever.
Such an easy one.
Well, we've been saying that for 60 years, so.
There's another no we haven't 50. No, that phone number, OK.
(55:05):
It might have been 2 and 3 before we've been
married 45 years and over the phone number.
Speaker 2 (55:08):
Yes, definitely, but not 60 because I'm only because my dad,
Speaker 1 (55:11):
oh yeah, right.
Please.
That's the phone number they got when you were 5
years old. Don't you remember? Yeah, and
I wasn't until we
Speaker 2 (55:20):
moved to Santa Ana.
Speaker 1 (55:21):
I am thankful for this woman right here
Speaker 2 (55:24):
because I made banana cream pie. Oh,
Speaker 1 (55:26):
is
that why? Is that the only reason, Brian? Uh, maybe
because of the other stuff she made too.
All right, you guys, have a great Thanksgiving. We will
talk to you again live on Monday. So if you
think of any questions over the next few days, write
them down so you don't forget them, and then call us.
We will be here from 3 to 4 p.m. Pacific time.
God bless you. Thank you so much for watching and listening.
(55:48):
For Brian and Cheryl Broderson from Echoesof Mercy.com, don't forget
the Sunday night at Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa, 6:30 night
of worship. I'm Brian Perez. Happy Thanksgiving from us here
at Pastor's Perspective.
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