December 9, 2025 • 56 mins
Pastors' Perspective is a one-hour call-in program where listeners can call in and get answers to questions about the Bible, Christianity, family, and life. The program is live Monday through Friday from 3:00 PM - 4:00 PM Pacific. You can call 888-564-6173 to ask your questions.
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Speaker 1 (00:28):
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. The number to call
is 888-564-6173. Again, 888-564-6173. I'm Michael David in for Brian Perez.
On today's program, we have Pastor Brian Broderson, Pastor Emeritus
at Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa.
And also you can get more information about him at echoesofmercy.com.
(00:49):
We also have Phil Metzger from Calvary Chapel, San Diego,
and you get more information about him at CalvarySD.com. Welcome
to the program, gentlemen.
Well, thank you, Michael, David. It is great to sit
across from you today.
Yes it is. It's great to see Phil on the screen.
It would be better if he was here in, hey,
(01:11):
we're kind of matching like in our blues. Yes, we are,
and our grays and our grays. Yes sir, but you
actually have more gray because you have gray on your
face as well, and I do not.
I think I got more gray even just in the
top of my head there buddy. I think, well, at
(01:31):
least you've got some on top of your head. That's
the important thing, so you win both of you win.
How do you keep a full head of hair? That's
what I want you guys to answer that question. Well, Michael, if,
if anybody could.
Could do the, you know, I mean, you kind of
got the Michael Jordan cut and you know it, it just,
you wear it well. Oh thank you. I wanna, I
(01:54):
wanna say I agree. I, I want to see pictures
of you with hair though, Michael, because it's kind of
like you look great like you are. So I'm just
trying to imagine how much greater you could look with
a bunch of hair. Well, you know, when I was young,
I actually had a beautiful afro, but those golden days
are over.
The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. When was
(02:14):
the last time you actually had hair? Oh gosh, well,
I think I was in my, I, it was in
my 30s that I started noticing it started disappearing, and
I said, you know, it's time to just give up
the ghost. Give up the ghost. It's time for it
to go. But, uh, yes, yes, yes, yes. But, uh, hey, oh,
thank you. I'm glad it looks good now that it's gone.
I mean, you know, I guess probably because I never
(02:37):
saw you with hair, so I've only, I've only always
seen you.
Uh, but man, you look good. No, you're too kind. Yes,
I think only my high school friends and college friends
remember me with hair, but, uh, yes, those were, those
golden days are over. So it's all good to, it's
all good. It's all good. I, I got a quick
praise report. Um, Phil, remember when we were together a
(02:58):
few weeks ago, John Bonner was with us and we
prayed for John, uh, who had, uh, um, a melanoma, uh, diagnosis.
And the doctors were, you know, I mean, you know,
that's obviously a very serious form of cancer, like all
cancers are, but, um, but anyway, I got a note
(03:19):
from him today saying he just got a clean bill
of health, no cancer. And I thought, well, praise the
Lord because we we prayed for him.
Um, when we were together at your church, and yeah,
and you know, he's, he's at the doctor here, so
he's staying at one of our pastor's house. Oh, OK,
so you already knew. Yeah, no, no, but it's great
(03:39):
news to get, uh, we were so excited when he
came back from the doctor and he's like, I am
cancer free. That is, that's great news, man. Wow blessing. Yeah,
he's gone. That's wonderful. That is wonderful. And also, Mr. Phil,
I wanted to ask you, do you guys have any
events going on for Christmas in Calvary, San Diego?
Yeah, I mean, I, I, we were, I heard, I
could hear you, Michael, you couldn't hear me, but we
do have a skate night, and I, I don't remember
(04:00):
what day it is, but it's coming up. Uh, yes,
I think I've got that right here, in fact. Yeah,
we have a roller skate night, that's the 19th, the 19th,
the 19th, so I think, yeah, December 19th is our
last roller skating night of the year, it's gonna be
a Christmas themed, and then on this Friday.
Uh, we have a Christmas women's event, so anybody in
(04:22):
South San Diego or North San Diego that wants to
come out, it's gonna be a fantastic time. You can
sign up at that, if you just go to our website,
Calvary SD it'll show up there, and then, um, and
then of course Christmas Eve, we're doing our service at
4 o'clock, and, um, and it's gonna be fun, there's
a little kids' choir, and yeah, it's gonna be a
great time. So, um, we've been doing an advent series
(04:44):
at our church, each week looking at Advent.
And um, and we're gonna be um wrapping it up
on Christmas Eve. So anybody's welcome. All right, and you
can get all the information about that at CalvarysD.com on
the events page. Now, uh, just out of curiosity, 4 o'clock,
I mean, that's pretty early. Is that, is there a
reason to go? Oh well, it is Christmas Eve. Yeah,
(05:05):
I get it. That's why, yeah, and you know what, we're,
we're a largely like, you know, population that like people celeb.
Celebrate on Christmas Eve. The nighttime is their kind of
big celebration. So everybody, all the moms want to get
home to cook and get out of there and um
have a great time together, but then get home and
cook and and do all that. So got it. Got it.
All right. All right, well, why don't we ask some
(05:27):
Facebook questions before we go to the, OK, there was, oh,
there was one other thing that I was thinking that
we could mention, Phil and I, because we've been emailing
back and forth a little bit, uh, about a new
Uh, educational opportunity that is going to come along here for, um,
a DMin degree from Talbot School of Theology. De Min
(05:52):
is a doctor of ministry, and we've had a number
of our, uh, pastors go through Western Seminary and in
a master's degree. And so, um, we're putting together a
DMin degree.
And um Phil and I are gonna be working on
that together and so I thought it would be good
(06:12):
to just throw it out there see what
You know, see what people think. Obviously, we're gonna send
out an email and all of that. But tell us,
just give us a little synopsis, Phil. What, what are
we thinking here? What, what can guys, it's gonna be,
it's a terrible name, isn't it? Demon for a Christian, uh,
doctoral degree, it's called Demon. Uh.
(06:36):
I, I always get questions about that, like why is
it called demon, no, no, no, it's not spelled the same,
it's an abbreviation, Doctor of ministry, and this is gonna
be a 3 year track focused on ministry and leadership,
so for those that are, you know, really wanting to
get to grow in a kind of a professional element
of their, of their lives, um, focused on ministry and leadership,
(07:00):
and we're gonna be kind of specific, just, we're gonna
have a minor in
Our movement of Calvary Chapel. Um, it won't be majored
on that, but we will kind of be able to,
especially with you and me being this, um, we'll be
able to bring the emphasis as it relates to our
own movement of Calvary.
And so we're gonna, it's a 3 year program, it's
gonna be so exciting, it meets 2 weeks out of
(07:23):
the year, so one in the spring, one in the fall,
it's very conducive for people that are working, and you know,
full-time in their lives, but they want, they got a
master's and they would like to go a little bit further.
I'm excited cause I'm gonna be able to offer a
really great scholarship for people and um, yeah, for those
that are interested, it's gonna be really fun.
Yeah, that's gonna be great. Is there any, um, is
(07:46):
there any contact point at at this time, or are
we still, we're still kind of waiting for that, right?
You know, yeah, I mean, I, I, I can give
an email address that is the contact point. So for
people listening that are interested, the email address is Talbot embedded,
so Talbot embedded at biola.edu.
(08:06):
Um, the email we'll send to our CGN people, I'll
put my email address on there, uh, it's fine, but
maybe for right here we'll just say Talbot embedded, uh,
at biola.edu and you can just Google Talbot embedded, and
you'll find information on their website as well. Yeah, that's
gonna be great, it's gonna be awesome.
All right, well, wonderful. And if you want to talk
(08:27):
to Brian or Phil, the number to call is 888-564-6173. 888-564-6173.
Before we go to the calls, uh, let's go to
one of the questions people contacted us on Facebook and Instagram.
Instagram first, this one comes from Alexander.
Alexander asks, do you guys think God calls young men
(08:48):
into the military? I have always had an interest in
the military and specifically want to look into the National
Guard to be a Green Beret, but I don't want
to ruin whatever God has in store for me if
it's not what he wants. What should I do? Pastor Brian,
what would you say?
Well, I would say, um, you know, first of all,
(09:08):
God calls people into all different kinds of um.
Vocations and and all different kinds of um.
All different walks of life. And I think uh life
in the military. I mean, I know many, many men who, um,
(09:31):
you know, have, have been in the military, spent much
of their lives in the military and have served Jesus
faithfully on that journey and it's fantastic. And yeah, I
think absolutely, the Lord could.
Um, be calling you into that. There's nothing that.
(09:52):
I would think that would say, oh, no, no, you,
you know, you can't do that. Uh, some people, um,
you know, there are people that are a bit pacifistic
in their perspective on things and they would say military
service probably isn't for a Christian. But I don't really
think you can support that biblically. I think, um, yeah,
(10:12):
I think there's even a great example in the New
Testament in the Gospel of Mark, when um
John the Baptist, they're actually, you know, John the Baptist
is baptizing and he's preaching and, and, you know, they're
asking John like, OK, you know, what do we do?
You know, we got baptized. What do we do now?
And he, he addresses a few things, but he addresses
(10:36):
the soldiers and he says that, you know, the soldiers
are to treat people fairly and they're not to um
Ah, be dishonest and you know, if, if military service
was not.
Anything that a believer should be involved in. I think
John could have easily said like, hey, you know what,
(10:56):
you're gonna have to resign from your job as a soldier. Uh,
we don't allow that in the kingdom. Um, but of
course he didn't do that. And so, yeah, what do
you think? Totally agree. I, I would, I always think
that's a great answer to that part. I, I want
to speak to the part where he says, but I
don't want to ruin whatever God has in store for me.
(11:18):
This is a, um, maybe it's separate from just the military,
so it's kind of a broader approach.
Uh, most of us Christians have had this like feeling
of like, I'm so afraid, cause I know me, right?
I know my capabilities. I can mess up everything. I
can lose everything, I can ruin every relationship, like I,
I'm aware, you know, that I can really mess things up.
(11:40):
So the problem is, is then you start talking about
your like your life, right? Who do I marry, where
do I go to school, what do I do for
a living?
And you're like, oh my gosh, I am probably gonna
mess this one up, and then I'm gonna end up
with God's second best, or whatever. And I think that
we've got to remember something, unless we're like living and
walking in sin, right? So let's take sin out of the,
(12:03):
you know, like living in like knowing we're in sin
and still willfully choosing that, take that out for a
second and just say, a normal Christian person who's like,
I just wanna follow God, I, in this case, I
wanna join the military and serve God there.
I think we need to be more aware of God's
ability to keep us in His will than in our
ability to mess it all up. God is greater than
(12:24):
we are, and so you can walk in that kind
of trust that like I'm wanting to serve God, I'm
wanting to do what's best. If God didn't want you
in the military, he's very capable of keeping you out
of that.
And so trust him on that. And I, I agree,
like what you said, Brian, I think it's an honorable
thing to choose to serve in the military. And if
God's called you, go for it. Yeah, and you, of course,
(12:47):
you're in, um, you're in San Diego, and you've got
a large military population down there. And when I used
to be in North County San Diego, we were right
at the
Um, you know, the back gate of Camp Pendleton, and
we had lots of military guys. As a matter of fact,
a well-known name for our listeners, Tony Clark. Uh, Tony
(13:09):
came to our church in Vista while he was a Marine.
And so I did not know that. Yeah, yeah, he was, uh, fun. Yeah,
it was great. Now, like you said, yeah, we're, we're
flooded with Navy and
I mean, you know, we're a navy town, this is
San Diego, and these are some of the greatest people
you'll ever have, a part of your church. They, they're
(13:31):
so moved, like they're, they're so fluid in their lives
that when they get there, they're so quick to make
family and friends and just jump in and we love it.
It's a, it's a very honorable thing to do. Now, I,
I'm just gonna
Maybe correct myself here just because I'm, I'm not sure
Tony was still in the Marines when he came to
the church at first. I think he might have, um,
(13:52):
been discharged already, but
But he was out there. He was in the area
because he had been stationed at Camp Pendleton. Yeah, that's cool.
Now my dad was a Marine too. Yes, and he
fought in Vietnam. Now the reason I want to address
the elephant in the middle of the room, and I
think what, uh, Alexanders may be getting at, I'm just
reading into his question, what if I'm called into combat
(14:12):
like my dad was, and you have to shoot and
kill people? Doesn't the Bible say thou shalt not kill?
What do you do about that? The Bible says thou
shalt not murder.
And those are two entirely different things. So, self-defense, defending
the weak, um, law enforcement, you know, you would have to,
you would have to really apply that across the board
and say, well, you know, we can't even have any
(14:33):
law enforcement, uh, if we're gonna go with that kind
of a position. So, I, I don't think you can
support that biblically. The the command is you shall not murder.
And the idea there is premeditated murder. So if you're
acting in the line of duty in combat, OK, that
wouldn't be considered murder. OK, fair enough. Well, great question
(14:55):
from Alexander on Instagram. Again, you can call 888-564-6173 to
talk to Pastor Brian and Pastor Phil. Uh, Kelly, this
one comes from Facebook. She's in Menefee.
And she asks, how can I explain to a loved
one that does not want to use a computer or
phone or cell or landline, um, because they think AI
(15:17):
is from Satan. I don't think this is reasonable. Can
one of the pastors explain why it's OK to use
technology and that it is not evil? And I'll go
to Phil on that one first.
Well, first of all, if they don't have a phone
or a landline or a computer, then what are they
worried about AI? I guess I mean it's not much
a part of their life, so yay for them, good job. Um, yeah,
(15:39):
I mean, OK, so to, to her question, to Kelly's
question about, you know, can we, um, the use of
technology that is not evil, Technology, just like everything else
in the world is like it just exists.
And then how it is used by humanity, uh, takes
on either good or bad, and so, you know, obviously
(16:00):
when we talk about technology, especially whenever there's like a
new technology, right? When you talk about new technology, uh,
we get a little bit like, oh no, what's happening,
what's going on, and, and a lot of that just
comes from the fact that we finally figured out how
to use what we've got, and now you just changed
it again, and so, change creates a lot of like
fear and, and worry.
(16:21):
Um, but then to associate that with like the devil, listen,
the devil's working on every level, like on the most,
like the devil's not worried about just technology, he's out
there to try to steal, kill and destroy on every level.
Technology is a really easy platform for that, but it
can be used for good. We as Christians should use.
Use the tools that are around us, because that's all
(16:43):
technology is, is a tool, and we should use it
for good and be very aware that the enemy is
always out there trying to, to ruin people's lives in, in,
in multiple, you can have no landline and still have
the devil coming after you.
Yeah, I'm, I'm convinced the devil is still in dial-up.
You know, he's, he's still actually, you know, got his
(17:03):
fingers in dial-up. More than, more than everywhere else is
the modem, the phone modem, 100%. But, but like you said, uh,
you know, Phil, it's true. I mean, like when every,
almost when every new technology comes along, there is, um, sometimes,
you know, a handful of people or or a group
(17:25):
of people.
Uh, who are Christians, who are suspicious and who think, oh, no,
you know, this, this is bad. And, um, and you know,
after a while, they realize, like you said, it's a tool.
It's a tool that can be used. So I was
talking to a friend the other day, and, you know,
(17:46):
he asked me a question.
And I basically said, hey, have you used chat GPT?
And he said, no, you know, I said, you need
to use chat GPT. I mean, this is the this
is the perfect place to get answers to these kinds
of questions. And so he's like, really, you think so?
(18:06):
And I, I, and I said, well, of course you
use Google, right? And he says, yeah, obviously. And I said, well,
this is just like Google on steroids. So, you know, yes,
use chat GPT.
Yes, good advice. Now, my concern about AI, and I've
mentioned this before about AI, I mean, somebody could make
a video of us doing pastor's perspective with looks just
(18:28):
like us, sounds just like Brian Broderson, sounds just like
Phil Metzger, sounds just like.
They're seeing us talking, and we never said any of
that stuff. Somebody has made that on their computer. Yeah,
and that's the kind of AI that they're actually uh outlawing. They're,
they're not deep fake stuff. They're, uh, it's illegal, actually. Um, because,
(18:49):
because of what you just said. I mean, you could actually,
you know, you could frame somebody for committing a crime
or something by just creating an AI version of it.
And so, um, yeah, so these are the kinds of
things that there will be, you know, more and more
guidelines and restrictions put on as, as time goes on.
(19:09):
But some of, some of the, some of the deep
fake AI stuff though is hilarious on, you know, when
you see just some of the different things that they
have people do, you know, especially when it's like all
the world leaders kind of
You know, if they're out like surfing together or something,
or they're, you know, playing in a playing in a
a maharachi band or something, you're just like, wow, OK. No,
(19:34):
the funny stuff is, is funny. It's hilarious. I've seen
that stuff too, but I'm more concerned about if it's
a news.
Cast and they're saying this stuff and it's your favorite
newscaster and it's like people are believing this. Yeah, no,
I mean that, but, but like I said, I mean,
this is the area where there, there's a lot of
anxiety from a lot of people about uh the potential
(19:56):
of where AI could go and I think it's, you know,
it's justifiable. So hopefully you have to think too like.
Like, to your, your point, Michael, you have to think,
you're thinking about it, like, how could we ever expose
these deepfakes, well, by AI like AI can identify AI.
So the very tool we're afraid of is also going
(20:18):
to be the thing that helps us to see and
discover what is a deep fake, right? So like, like
right now if there's a deep fake video and I
just watch it, my eyes tell me one thing, but
if I could, if I could ask Chuck.
GPT or you know, one of these other Gemini or whatever,
is this video real, and then it's able to, it's
able to look at the code and say no, that's
(20:38):
not real. What my point is, is that the same
thing that we're afraid of is also going to be
in some ways our
Our, our, our biggest help because it's gonna be able
to identify all these like, you know, is, uh, you know,
Kim Jong-un riding a surfboard, you know, down in Maui,
and it's like chachipiti, no.
(21:00):
And here's the proof for that, you know, you know, I,
I was, uh, I was seeing all of these great
videos of cats, like, you know, taking on a bear
and taking on, you know, like a mountain lion and
a wolf and all of that. You're just like, that's amazing.
So I sent it to my grandson. He just sends
me back.
He says, it's AI. That's all he said.
(21:25):
Oh yeah, well, you know, I'm your grandpa, so yeah,
I guess I would get faked. I got the deep fake.
They look so real, it's easy to get faked. Yeah,
so we have to use AI to fight AI, yeah,
fight fire with fire. All right, well, great question from
Kelly in Menefee on Facebook. Again, 888-564-6173.
(21:47):
Again, 888-564-6173 if you'd like to talk to Pastor Brian
Broderson or Pastor Phil Metzger. Uh, Mike on Facebook asks, uh,
what would you say to someone who thinks the earth
is flat based on the Bible? Their words, not mine.
When I asked where, he told me all through the Bible,
(22:08):
especially Genesis one, but wouldn't tell me more than that. Um,
what would you say to Mike?
Um,
I would say to your friend, you gotta tell me
more because Genesis 1 isn't going to convince me of that.
I mean, you know, there are places where scripture speaks
figuratively like the four corners of the earth and and
(22:29):
things like that. And you know, we use figurative language,
the rising of the sun and, and all of that,
which we know that that is figurative.
Um, and, and likewise, we should know that the four
corners of the earth are figurative. It's talking about north, south,
east and west.
Um, yeah, you know, I, I just don't.
(22:54):
On one level, I don't get why people want to
preoccupy themselves with the shape of the earth at this
stage when you have uh all the amazing ability in
the world to, or you can just look up at
the moon and you can see that the moon isn't flat.
So if the moon's not flat, why would the earth
(23:14):
be flat?
Um, but on the other hand, I just think like, OK,
let's just say the earth is flat. Who cares? What, what, why,
why do you even care? OK, you know, what's the
big deal if the earth is flat, fine, let it
be flat.
Uh, that's a real simplified take on it. And that's
(23:35):
gonna be my deep fake video. Pastor Emeritus Calvary Costa
Mesa says Earth is flat, Earth is flat.
And here is a video of him walking off. Yeah,
he just walked off of the cliff of the Earth.
He just, he just left Earth.
I mean, like, Phil, it's 2025. Why?
(23:58):
Why are people talking about the earth being flat these days? It's,
it's nutty.
It's, it's on the rise. This is what is, I mean,
we have more access to information and, and, and, and
to the point that Michael, you were making earlier, this
is the, this is what's crazy. More informa, I mean
(24:19):
the Bible says that, that information will make you mad,
and it literally is making us all go crazy, because
we have better, I mean we have satellites, we have
all these things.
And like you've never seen a flat Earth in one
of them, not one, you've never seen them, and yet
more people by percentage believe in a flat Earth today
than they did even like 2030 years ago, or even wild.
(24:42):
2000 years ago, you know, people, people often say, well,
the ancient people believed the earth was flat. No, they didn't.
I mean, you're hard pressed to find anybody in the
ancient world that thought the earth was flat, maybe a
little sect somewhere here or there, but
I always tell people, like, I've met a few of
those and I always remind them like, well, again, you're
using poetic language to try to define science, and that's
(25:05):
not fair. But then in another sense, the Bible, like Ecclesiastes,
the Bible talks about the, the wind, and wind exists
because the earth's on a rotation and a flat surface
is not rotating.
There's, this is a round Earth that is rotating, and
as it rotates, there are wind patterns, north, south, east
(25:25):
and west. So, the very fact that we have wind
patterns speaks to a, a, a round uh uh a globe. Yeah.
So I, I would just go back to your friend
and say, well, you know, show me a specific passage
that says the earth is flat, which of course they
will not be able to do.
(25:46):
And if they point to the the four corners of
the earth, just you can just say, well, look, this
is figurative language. The Bible uses figurative language on a
number of occasions and expects us to understand that this
is figurative language. Jesus said, ah, I am the door. Uh,
Jesus says, I am the vine. Jesus is not a
(26:06):
door or a vine. This is figurative language to communicate
a certain truth.
Fair enough. Fair enough. Very true. All right, well, thank
you so much, Mike contacting us on Facebook. Uh, we're
going to go to the calls at 888-564-6173 and talk
to Alice. Alice, welcome to the program.
(26:29):
Alice, are you there?
Alice,
Maybe we'll go back to Alice, yes. Uh, maybe we
can go back to Alice in a little while, uh,
maybe at the second half of the program, hopefully. But, uh,
just another quick Facebook question. Uh, April asked, does the
Bible teach that there are generational curses? Uh, Phil, what
(26:50):
would you say to that?
OK, I was unmuting there, um, generational curses, yeah, this,
this comes up quite a bit, um, what does the
Bible teach about that? Um, the Bible doesn't teach that
there are ongoing spiritual curses, uh, for us as believers.
The New Testament's pretty clear, even in the Old Testament
that like,
We're not, so, OK, I want to look at this
(27:12):
with two perspectives, we're not, there, there's no generational curse,
you are no longer like what you're, the sins of
the fathers are not gonna be passed down to you,
but then why does this still kind of exist and
why are these ideas still out there? Because we gotta
separate the concept of generational curse from like habits.
Um, we are, we are habitual people, right, so like
if I see my, what I learned from my dad, the,
(27:36):
the odds are I'll probably continue to do that, right?
So I was like, 00, this is how he raised me,
I'm gonna raise my kids this way.
Um, and Michael just stop me when the music starts
playing cause I won't hear it. Um, and so, or,
or you say this, oh, my parents were terrible and
I'm gonna do the exact opposite, as if doing the
exact opposite will produce the results that you want. So, we,
(27:57):
we tend to mistake, um, habits and patterns that we've
learned as Christians, as if that's a generational curse, and no,
you in Jesus Christ, you are a new creation in
Christ Jesus, there's nothing held against you, you are free
to make your own mistakes, which you will.
And the grace of God is great to cover those things.
Yes, and I think Brian, you've talked about generational curses before.
(28:20):
I think Pastor Chuck even mentioned it as well. Is
that something you guys had to
We're confronted with, even though I don't think believe you
believe in it. I mean, it's an idea that is
prevalent in certain charismatic circles, you know, they often will.
Um, attribute a person's problems in their life to generational curses,
(28:41):
you know, you're, you're the way you are because there
was a curse placed on your great great great great
grandmother or something like that. And which to which we
just say, look, there's no biblical evidence for that. Um, the,
the scripture talks about um
You know, God visiting the sins of the fathers on
the children, uh, to the 3rd and 4th generation, but
(29:04):
that's more like Phil saying, that's more just a natural
progression of people, uh, behaving sinfully.
Because they're observing sinful behavior patterns. But the thing to
remember about that statement that you find in Exodus is, um,
(29:25):
the statement refers to those who hate me, God says,
but mercy and compassion to those who love me. So
once you come to Jesus, whatever there was in your background, uh,
is broken.
And you, you have a whole new thing with the Lord.
So a great answer. All right, we, I've been told
(29:47):
Alice is back from Oceanside, so we'll talk to her
the second half of the program. If you'd like to
talk to the pastors, call 888-564-6173. Again, 888-564-6173. We'll see
you on the second half of the program.
(30:21):
Hello and welcome back to the second half of Pastor's Perspective.
I'm Michael David in for Brian Perez. On today's program,
we have Pastor Brian Broderson and Pastor Phil Metzger. If
you'd like to talk to the pastors, call 888-564-6173. Again, 888-564-6173.
On the first half of the program, we tried to
(30:41):
go to Alice in Oceanside. We were not able to
get her on, but we're going to see if we
can get her on now. Alice, are you there now?
Hello hello, yes, you are. Welcome to the program.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Thank you very much. Um, my question is about, uh,
businesses who, uh, I don't know, uh, it's about McDonald's
this month they're promoting the Grinch, and to me that
seems like that's in opposition of Christmas, and I just
wanted to get your perspective on how we should feel
(31:14):
about that or.
Is it something that we, we should boycott because we
all know that the Grinch tends to ruin people's Christmases.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Well, right, he stole Christmases from what I understand, correct? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
So should we be supporting that? I mean, every time
I get a cup of coffee there, I have to
wrap my hand around a green Grinch, and I'm not
like I'm not feeling too good about that.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Well, Alice, um, I think that that is something that
you would have to decide on your own, based on
your own conviction. Um, I, I don't think
I don't think McDonald's, I, I could be wrong, but
I don't think McDonald's said, hey, this year at Christmas time,
(32:03):
let's do like an anti, uh, Christmas theme and let's,
you know, intentionally, uh,
Ignore
The real reason for the season, uh, which is Jesus,
which I don't think they ever acknowledge anyway, and, and,
you know, let's, let's do something that's gonna move people
(32:24):
away from Jesus toward the Grinch. Um, I, so I don't,
I don't think they did anything like that. I think,
you know, somehow the Grinch has become associated with Christmas
over the years, obviously through the book and the movie, um.
And I think for some people, it's just, some people
like the Grinch. I, you know, I personally never liked
the Grinch. I just don't like the guy. I think he's,
(32:44):
I think he's ugly. I think he's mean. He's all
those things, you know. So I don't, I don't care
for him and I wouldn't want him on my coffee
cup either. But, uh, but I, I don't think there's
an intentional thing that Christians should say, can't go to
McDonald's because of the Grinch. What do you think, Phil?
I mean, I'm just, I'm finding out so much about
(33:06):
Brian today. Uh, these things are, this is so good.
It's so good to be on the show twice a
week because I learned so much. Um, yeah, I mean,
you didn't know that I had those strong feelings about
the Grinch, did you? Yeah, I didn't know, like I'm
gonna take your Christmas gift back because it's awkward now, but.
Um, Alice, I love your like heart and like you're not,
(33:28):
you know, like Brian said, like this is like, you
have to, your own convictions and all. I, I, I
do agree with what he said there. This is not
an intention to minimize our faith. This is not an anti-Christian.
Um, it's probably more a business decision of they have
(33:48):
a partnership with the, whoever owns the Grinch character, and I,
you know, I have grandkids in this category, and I,
I got a school at our church. All these kids
want to get the socks, they have a couple different colors,
nobody's thinking much about the, um,
You know, the, the message as much as just these
(34:11):
like kind of cute green socks, yellow socks, purple, I
hear this all day, I really need to get the
blue socks, you know, and it's more of like a
fun thing, but you know, again, if it's your conviction,
you wanna, you wanna be led by your convictions, but I, I,
I'm not sure that like, that McDonald's, in fact I
know it, they're not out to ruin Christmas for us Christians,
(34:31):
it's just a
Like everything, it's just a business thing that they're doing,
and um, we don't have to like Grinch, uh, like
Brian doesn't like Grinch, and um and uh you know,
and I I don't know, I mean, but you don't
feel like you're compromising by getting a cup of coffee
at McDonald's. I, I would just say there's, there's other
places to get coffee, that's more my issue. Uh, Alice,
(34:54):
I'm gonna take, you're in Oceanside, I'm gonna take you
to some good coffee shops.
Now, now, Brian, you mentioned this called The Grinch That
Stole Christmas. But if it's been a million years since
I've seen it, but he tried to steal Christmas, so
he stole all the presents. He stole all the decorations.
He stole all the food, but Christmas still came anyway.
It was like it was more than just that. Oh yeah,
(35:15):
say that again, Phil. He changed his heart. He had
a little heart, and then he got a big heart. Well,
you know, I, I just, I mean.
OK, this is happening. I, I don't, you know, I, I, I,
I'm just not sure that I believe he really was sincere,
so he might not have changed. I'm holding on to my,
(35:35):
my deep animosity.
Now some people have actually said that that is an
underlying low-key Christian message with his heart getting bigger and
he saw that it's more than that changing over Christmass. Well,
you know, maybe that is the case. I still don't like, I,
I don't like Doctor Seuss, uh, characters just because I
(35:56):
just don't like them, not for any spiritual reason.
I just don't like them. And see, and that's another point.
That's fair. We just, there's some things we just don't like.
It's not Christian or not, it's we don't like it.
And I'm not saying the Grinch That Stole Christmas is
a Christian story. I'm saying I've heard some people argue
that with his heart changing towards it. Some people argue that, uh.
(36:20):
What's the movie that everybody argues about is a Christmas movie? Oh, the, um,
what's that like violent, uh, the Bruce Willis movie Die
Hard Die Hard. Is that a Christmas movie or not? Yeah, yeah. Yes, yes.
All right, and I, I've not seen Die Hard either,
so I, I don't know if it's a Christmas movie
or not. You can ask Ed. he's in England. Ask him. He'll,
he'll go on an hour rant about that movie and Christmas.
(36:43):
He will, yes, he's, he's got a lot of opinions
about that. Me and my sister argue.
Over the Nightmare Before Christmas, I say that is a
Halloween movie. She says, No, it's a Christmas movie. I'm like, that?
Why do we see this guy at Halloween, you know,
if it's a Christmas movie? Oh, it's the headless horseman. No, it's, uh,
Jake Skellington. Jack Skellington. Thank you. Yes, and, and all
those oogie boogie and Molly, they all show up at Halloween. So,
(37:07):
and they stick around at Christmas, you know. So yeah,
I think it's the Halloween movie, she says it's the Christmas, dude,
you can put up your Halloween.
Decorations and then just put a Santa hat on them
and you can leave them up from October to December.
That's what's happening. That is exactly what's going on with that.
No doubt about it. Yes. Well, thank you, Alice, for
(37:27):
that great question from Oceanside. We appreciate you calling us
at 888-564-6173. We're going to go from Oceanside to Garden
Grove and talk to Sonia. Sonia, welcome to the program.
Hi, I have a question. It's about regarding my daughter's marriage.
If um you guys can refer to uh any counseling,
(37:52):
like marriage counseling because
Are their marriage like is falling apart and I just
wanna see if that can help and, you know, to, um,
for them to still marry, to, you know, continue marry. Mhm. Uh,
do they have a church, Sonia, that they're part of?
(38:14):
Yes, they do, but you know, the, the our pastor
is leaving and this new pastor is going to take
over the church and um we, we're going to be
out of church for like 3 weeks, you know, because
they're the new pastor is taking over the church and
then they, you know, they're doing like different things in
there and she already reached out to them but no
(38:38):
one has, uh, called them back or, or, or nothing,
you know, and.
And I just, I just, I broke my heart to
see them, and they have like two little girls. They're
like 1 year old and 2 years old. Mm, yeah.
No, that's, that's really, really hard, um.
(39:02):
Yeah, of course, counseling can be very helpful.
Um, and there are, there are good counselors, um, out there.
I don't have a, a recommendation off the top of
my head.
Um, I, I, you know, I would always look to
the church first and to the, the pastoral staff and then,
(39:25):
you know, let them sort of take, take the lead
from there, um.
Yeah, so I, I get that the church is in
a transition with a new pastor. You know, a lot
of churches will give some counseling to people even if
they're not members of the church. Uh, we did that
(39:45):
for years here at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa. We have many,
many people that would come in.
Uh, for counseling that weren't actually, um, you know, part
of the congregation, we just did that as a service.
And so you might
You might look around for a church in the area,
maybe even call a few churches and ask if they
(40:06):
do counseling and specifically if they do marriage counseling.
Yes, uh, Sonia, what do you think about that?
Yeah, I mean, I guess they can call them, but
I was just hoping that you guys can, um, refer
to somebody, to someone, you know, that, that you guys know, um,
(40:28):
in Chris' church. Yeah, there's a, there's a counselor, uh,
a counseling.
Um, ministry that we refer people to called Journeys.
And they're based here in Costa Mesa.
And so we've had um.
A number of people we've we've recommended to journeys counseling ministry.
(40:50):
So Michael's just pulled it up here on the
On the web, and so if you go to journeys counseling.com.
You can get more information there, and then it says
here up on the right hand side, you can even
request an appointment.
Yes, so, uh, Sonia, can you check out that, uh,
journeys counseling.com? Yes, OK, yes, I'm going to tell my
(41:14):
daughter journeys counseling.com. Yes, that's right. That's it. That's the one.
All right, well, thank you so much, Sonia, for calling
from Garden Grove at 888-564-6173. Again, that's 888-564-6173. If you
would like to talk to Brian Broderson or Phil Metzger.
You were gonna say something. Oh, I thought you were
(41:34):
gonna say something. OK. All right, very good. Well, in
that case, let's go to Cheryl in Mission Viejo. Cheryl,
welcome to the program.
Hello, how are you?
Good.
Wonderful. All right, here's my question.
I have noticed that the church at large has started
(41:58):
ordaining women as bishops.
I understand some people get confused when the Bible says man,
where they need to know where he's speaking gender versus mankind.
But I think the passage about a bishop is self-explanatory.
What do you all think? Should women be ordained as bishops?
(42:23):
Are you referring to any specific um case of a
woman being ordained as a bishop?
I don't
I don't sit under.
Anyone that is a bishop, but yet I see on
social media, uh, I see on YouTube where there are
women who operate in the position of bishop. So there's
(42:47):
no particular one I'm going to. I just
Based on my understanding, don't think that passage means that
women are to be bishops. I'm not speaking about them
not being pastors or, you know, teachers or prophetess, but
I just don't think that passage means women to be bishops.
(43:09):
What say you?
OK, well, the reason I ask that is because, um,
for the first time in 100.
Oh, no, not 100, um, it's 157th Archbishop of Canterbury, uh,
is a woman. So this is the first time in,
in the history of the Church of England that a
(43:32):
woman has been the Archbishop. That, so that's new, um.
The passage that you're referring to now, Bishop, let's let's
kind of break that down for a moment because bishop
is a, it's a church word, it's a it's a
religious word. When you think of bishop, I know for me,
you know, I, I grew up in Roman Catholicism when
(43:53):
I was young. And so you very much understood what
a bishop at least looked like, a long flowing robe
and a bishop's miter, which was a hat.
And, uh, you know, all of the, the bishop's staff,
all of those things. OK, so as church history developed,
(44:13):
the office of bishop developed along with it. But the
word is a simple word. It's two Greek words that
means to oversee. And so the Greek words are episcopas, uh, epi,
which means over.
And scoopus, which means like you would think it means
like to scope, uh, to scope it out, so it
(44:36):
means to oversee.
And yet, you know, historically and through, of course, the
King James Version of the Bible, and then other versions
that came after it, uh, the, the more religious type
of word bishop, uh has come down to us. So
the word simply means overseer.
And Paul gives instruction in um 1 Timothy and Titus
(45:01):
about uh most specifically in 1 Timothy, he gives instruction
in chapter 3. If any man desires the office of
the overseer, he desires a good thing.
And then Paul um refers to um.
You know, so, so in the New Testament, you have
(45:22):
references to elders, you have references to shepherds or shepherding,
and you have references to oversight or overseeing. And now
some people have taken those and they've really, um, really
built a theology around those terms and said this is
what these terms mean, and this is how people are
(45:44):
to function in relation to these terms.
And then others have looked at the same terms and
drawn different conclusions. And so, um, you know, you mentioned
you you seem to be seeing more of this today. Um, the,
the Pentecostal denominations that are prevalent today like the Assembly
(46:05):
of God, for example, or the Four Square churches, they
have ordained, um, women into leadership roles in churches.
Uh, from the, from the very beginning.
And um,
Let, let me say one more thing about the bishop. Uh,
the bishop was the local overseer of the church. So,
(46:30):
The pastor
The one who was giving oversight to the local congregation.
That's who Paul is describing there. The idea of a
bishop being like a regional sort of a figure who
oversees a number of congregations, and they have a number
of of different people under them or like a college
of bishops or cardinals or something like that. These are
(46:53):
all things that came later in church history and not
aren't necessarily really um
A good picture of the New Testament, uh, teaching on it. Um, I, I,
I think as time goes on, I, I've thought this
for a while.
That although we would like to have a super clear
(47:14):
structure of this is exactly how it's laid out in
the New Testament, uh, the more I study the scripture,
the more difficult it seems to me to lay out
like a very much like this is exactly the way
it's supposed to be done. I think there's intentional ambiguity
because the gospel is going to be a, a multicultural
thing that's going to go around the world. And there's
(47:36):
going to need to be flexibility to adjust from culture
to culture.
So
That was a long answer. I think that was a,
that was a great answer. I think that was a
great answer, and I think like, I don't, I don't
think it's on the rise. I, I, I think people
need to, I'm not, I couldn't add, I honestly, Brian,
couldn't add to what you, I thought you did such
(47:57):
a great job. I think sometimes though, like I was
thinking of this, obviously you and I, we talk about
this quite a bit, um.
I, I think like people, there's this assumption that like if,
if a woman is leading a church, then it is, by,
by the nature of her leading, it is a liberal church,
and this, you know, again, the assemblies of God would say, well,
(48:20):
we'd like to talk with you about that because this
hasn't been the case, we have been biblically sound believers
in the inerrancy of scripture.
Solid in our orthodoxy for 100+ years, and the same
with 400 others. Now let's acknowledge what, let's let's just
call it what it is, liberalism can exist, man or woman,
(48:41):
so you certainly you can have a woman leading a church,
you can be extremely liberal. Guess what, you've got a
lot of men leading churches that are very liberal as well.
And so we, we, we think it's important to separate
those things out, that by nature of a woman leading
doesn't mean that it is, it is immediately liberal. The
other thing I would say is this, because of that
intentional ambiguity that Brian was talking about that I wholeheartedly
(49:03):
agree with, churches and church movements, we create kind of
our own comfort zones, we create our own space that
we say, this is where we generally land, and, but
it is our responsibility to acknowledge.
There are people who don't land where we do, who
love the Lord Jesus, they love the gospel, they love
the word of God, we just disagree with this on
(49:25):
a secondary matter, it's not a salvation issue, so, uh,
I know we're saying a lot, I hope this kind
of helps you. Uh, let's see, Cheryl, does that help?
I appreciate all that I've heard and I had the
understanding that the word bishop, that was not the problem
(49:48):
for me because I know it's an administrator, right? An overseer,
but I was meaning the qualification. I got there pretty
clear that it says it's a man who's been married to, uh,
one wife, you know, with a great reputation, but if
the qualifications are no longer.
(50:08):
Self explanatory then I see why it's happened.
But it just seems like based on the Bible, it's
saying that it is a man married to a woman,
which that's what we believe marriage is a man and
a woman. I don't have a problem with women in leadership.
I just think that qualification, I can't swear that it
(50:32):
means something different today. Yeah.
Yeah, well, I, and I don't know that anybody would say,
I mean, it obviously means what it means in, in
that context. Some would, some would say though, that um
Paul's laying out kind of a general rule. And he's
not saying he he he doesn't even address the issue
(50:54):
of whether a woman could be in the position or not.
He's just addressing what would have been the common experience
of the men rising up.
But, you know, having not said, but make sure you
never put a woman in this role, that as time
went on, and maybe, you know, cultural differences would allow
for a woman to be in a place like that. So,
(51:17):
like Phil said, there, you know, there are good Christian
people who have different opinions about these things. There are
very scholarly, um,
Attempts to really get, you know, deeper into what what
the Bible is teaching on this, and people land in
(51:39):
different places. And so, like, like Phil also said, I
think we want to make sure that we keep the
main things, the main thing. And of course, the gospel
of Jesus is the main thing. I think of um
I spent a lot of time in England as as
some would know.
And um there's a few, no, I just mentioned the
(51:59):
the new Archbishop of Canterbury is a woman. Now, I
think it's unfortunate that she's in that position, not because
she's a woman, but because she is a woman who
denies the authority of scripture and a bunch of other things.
And I think that's a problem. But I also know
of a couple of women bishops in England, who are phenomenal.
And they are actually holding the line of orthodoxy against
(52:21):
liberal men.
who are pushing a theologically liberal agenda. And I thank
God that those women are in the position that they're in.
Hm.
Fair enough. Fair enough. Cheryl, Cheryl, does that help?
You know, it, it helped in the sense of trying
to get a wrap around why is it that today
(52:44):
we have all these different thoughts, right, regarding it because
even a man, when he's a bishop and he has
gotten a divorce.
And he's not even managing his household well, and that's
one of the qualifications, but you don't to cut you off.
I want to do the divorced pastor thing. What, what
is that? What is your take? I mean, you know, divorce,
(53:04):
divorce is not the unpardonable sin, and it all depends
on the circumstances, you know, um, we can say a
lot of things about divorce, but we always have to
make sure.
We, we say them in the context of what the
divorce is. So let's just say very simply, a person
who is a victim of a divorce is free to
go on and do anything and everything in their life
(53:26):
and ministry that the Lord would lead them to do.
There's no restriction because they were not the perpetrator of
the divorce. But now it's a different story if it
is a person who
Um, is the one who causes the divorce, especially if
it's a person who's in ministry, which we've seen this
has happened many, many times that a pastor, uh, you know,
(53:50):
falls in love with the choir leader or something, and
then he leaves his wife and he goes off and,
you know, is married to her, whatever the case. Uh,
that's a, that's a whole different situation that needs to
be addressed for what it is. And I think there's
very specific things that would be said about that too.
All right. Well, Cheryl from Mission Viejos, thank you so
(54:12):
much for that call. Very important question, very hot topic
right now. So we definitely appreciate, appreciate you talking about
those hot topics. Uh, speaking of hot topics, uh, Sonia
in Garden Grove, she did ask us about mamarital counseling
for her daughter. Uh, Pastor Brian mentioned journeys counseling.com. Again,
journeys counseling.com. Also, uh, Focus on the Family does have
(54:33):
a phone number you can call which
Is 1-800-A family. Again, 1-800-A family or 800-232-6459. 800-232-6459. So, uh, again, Cheryl,
thank you for your call from Mission Viejo and Sonia
from Garden Grove. Thank you for your call as well
(54:56):
and everybody else who call in. We appreciate you calling in,
talking to Pastor Phil Metger from California.
Calvary Chapel San Diego, and also Pastor Brian Broderson, Pastor
Emeritus at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, Echoesof Mercy.com as well. Uh,
you can get more information about Pastor Phil at CalvarySD.com.
So you can call in tomorrow if you have questions
(55:17):
about the Bible, the Christian faith, how to live the
Christian life. 888-564-6173 is the number to call tomorrow, and
we will see you next time on Pastor's Perspective. Bye-bye.
Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. The number to call
is 888-564-6173. Again, 888-564-6173. I'm Michael David in for Brian Perez.
On today's program, we have Pastor Brian Broderson, Pastor Emeritus
at Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa.
And also you can get more information about him at echoesofmercy.com.
(00:49):
We also have Phil Metzger from Calvary Chapel, San Diego,
and you get more information about him at CalvarySD.com. Welcome
to the program, gentlemen.
Well, thank you, Michael, David. It is great to sit
across from you today.
Yes it is. It's great to see Phil on the screen.
It would be better if he was here in, hey,
(01:11):
we're kind of matching like in our blues. Yes, we are,
and our grays and our grays. Yes sir, but you
actually have more gray because you have gray on your
face as well, and I do not.
I think I got more gray even just in the
top of my head there buddy. I think, well, at
(01:31):
least you've got some on top of your head. That's
the important thing, so you win both of you win.
How do you keep a full head of hair? That's
what I want you guys to answer that question. Well, Michael, if,
if anybody could.
Could do the, you know, I mean, you kind of
got the Michael Jordan cut and you know it, it just,
you wear it well. Oh thank you. I wanna, I
(01:54):
wanna say I agree. I, I want to see pictures
of you with hair though, Michael, because it's kind of
like you look great like you are. So I'm just
trying to imagine how much greater you could look with
a bunch of hair. Well, you know, when I was young,
I actually had a beautiful afro, but those golden days
are over.
The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. When was
(02:14):
the last time you actually had hair? Oh gosh, well,
I think I was in my, I, it was in
my 30s that I started noticing it started disappearing, and
I said, you know, it's time to just give up
the ghost. Give up the ghost. It's time for it
to go. But, uh, yes, yes, yes, yes. But, uh, hey, oh,
thank you. I'm glad it looks good now that it's gone.
I mean, you know, I guess probably because I never
(02:37):
saw you with hair, so I've only, I've only always
seen you.
Uh, but man, you look good. No, you're too kind. Yes,
I think only my high school friends and college friends
remember me with hair, but, uh, yes, those were, those
golden days are over. So it's all good to, it's
all good. It's all good. I, I got a quick
praise report. Um, Phil, remember when we were together a
(02:58):
few weeks ago, John Bonner was with us and we
prayed for John, uh, who had, uh, um, a melanoma, uh, diagnosis.
And the doctors were, you know, I mean, you know,
that's obviously a very serious form of cancer, like all
cancers are, but, um, but anyway, I got a note
(03:19):
from him today saying he just got a clean bill
of health, no cancer. And I thought, well, praise the
Lord because we we prayed for him.
Um, when we were together at your church, and yeah,
and you know, he's, he's at the doctor here, so
he's staying at one of our pastor's house. Oh, OK,
so you already knew. Yeah, no, no, but it's great
(03:39):
news to get, uh, we were so excited when he
came back from the doctor and he's like, I am
cancer free. That is, that's great news, man. Wow blessing. Yeah,
he's gone. That's wonderful. That is wonderful. And also, Mr. Phil,
I wanted to ask you, do you guys have any
events going on for Christmas in Calvary, San Diego?
Yeah, I mean, I, I, we were, I heard, I
could hear you, Michael, you couldn't hear me, but we
do have a skate night, and I, I don't remember
(04:00):
what day it is, but it's coming up. Uh, yes,
I think I've got that right here, in fact. Yeah,
we have a roller skate night, that's the 19th, the 19th,
the 19th, so I think, yeah, December 19th is our
last roller skating night of the year, it's gonna be
a Christmas themed, and then on this Friday.
Uh, we have a Christmas women's event, so anybody in
(04:22):
South San Diego or North San Diego that wants to
come out, it's gonna be a fantastic time. You can
sign up at that, if you just go to our website,
Calvary SD it'll show up there, and then, um, and
then of course Christmas Eve, we're doing our service at
4 o'clock, and, um, and it's gonna be fun, there's
a little kids' choir, and yeah, it's gonna be a
great time. So, um, we've been doing an advent series
(04:44):
at our church, each week looking at Advent.
And um, and we're gonna be um wrapping it up
on Christmas Eve. So anybody's welcome. All right, and you
can get all the information about that at CalvarysD.com on
the events page. Now, uh, just out of curiosity, 4 o'clock,
I mean, that's pretty early. Is that, is there a
reason to go? Oh well, it is Christmas Eve. Yeah,
(05:05):
I get it. That's why, yeah, and you know what, we're,
we're a largely like, you know, population that like people celeb.
Celebrate on Christmas Eve. The nighttime is their kind of
big celebration. So everybody, all the moms want to get
home to cook and get out of there and um
have a great time together, but then get home and
cook and and do all that. So got it. Got it.
All right. All right, well, why don't we ask some
(05:27):
Facebook questions before we go to the, OK, there was, oh,
there was one other thing that I was thinking that
we could mention, Phil and I, because we've been emailing
back and forth a little bit, uh, about a new
Uh, educational opportunity that is going to come along here for, um,
a DMin degree from Talbot School of Theology. De Min
(05:52):
is a doctor of ministry, and we've had a number
of our, uh, pastors go through Western Seminary and in
a master's degree. And so, um, we're putting together a
DMin degree.
And um Phil and I are gonna be working on
that together and so I thought it would be good
(06:12):
to just throw it out there see what
You know, see what people think. Obviously, we're gonna send
out an email and all of that. But tell us,
just give us a little synopsis, Phil. What, what are
we thinking here? What, what can guys, it's gonna be,
it's a terrible name, isn't it? Demon for a Christian, uh,
doctoral degree, it's called Demon. Uh.
(06:36):
I, I always get questions about that, like why is
it called demon, no, no, no, it's not spelled the same,
it's an abbreviation, Doctor of ministry, and this is gonna
be a 3 year track focused on ministry and leadership,
so for those that are, you know, really wanting to
get to grow in a kind of a professional element
of their, of their lives, um, focused on ministry and leadership,
(07:00):
and we're gonna be kind of specific, just, we're gonna
have a minor in
Our movement of Calvary Chapel. Um, it won't be majored
on that, but we will kind of be able to,
especially with you and me being this, um, we'll be
able to bring the emphasis as it relates to our
own movement of Calvary.
And so we're gonna, it's a 3 year program, it's
gonna be so exciting, it meets 2 weeks out of
(07:23):
the year, so one in the spring, one in the fall,
it's very conducive for people that are working, and you know,
full-time in their lives, but they want, they got a
master's and they would like to go a little bit further.
I'm excited cause I'm gonna be able to offer a
really great scholarship for people and um, yeah, for those
that are interested, it's gonna be really fun.
Yeah, that's gonna be great. Is there any, um, is
(07:46):
there any contact point at at this time, or are
we still, we're still kind of waiting for that, right?
You know, yeah, I mean, I, I, I can give
an email address that is the contact point. So for
people listening that are interested, the email address is Talbot embedded,
so Talbot embedded at biola.edu.
(08:06):
Um, the email we'll send to our CGN people, I'll
put my email address on there, uh, it's fine, but
maybe for right here we'll just say Talbot embedded, uh,
at biola.edu and you can just Google Talbot embedded, and
you'll find information on their website as well. Yeah, that's
gonna be great, it's gonna be awesome.
All right, well, wonderful. And if you want to talk
(08:27):
to Brian or Phil, the number to call is 888-564-6173. 888-564-6173.
Before we go to the calls, uh, let's go to
one of the questions people contacted us on Facebook and Instagram.
Instagram first, this one comes from Alexander.
Alexander asks, do you guys think God calls young men
(08:48):
into the military? I have always had an interest in
the military and specifically want to look into the National
Guard to be a Green Beret, but I don't want
to ruin whatever God has in store for me if
it's not what he wants. What should I do? Pastor Brian,
what would you say?
Well, I would say, um, you know, first of all,
(09:08):
God calls people into all different kinds of um.
Vocations and and all different kinds of um.
All different walks of life. And I think uh life
in the military. I mean, I know many, many men who, um,
(09:31):
you know, have, have been in the military, spent much
of their lives in the military and have served Jesus
faithfully on that journey and it's fantastic. And yeah, I
think absolutely, the Lord could.
Um, be calling you into that. There's nothing that.
(09:52):
I would think that would say, oh, no, no, you,
you know, you can't do that. Uh, some people, um,
you know, there are people that are a bit pacifistic
in their perspective on things and they would say military
service probably isn't for a Christian. But I don't really
think you can support that biblically. I think, um, yeah,
(10:12):
I think there's even a great example in the New
Testament in the Gospel of Mark, when um
John the Baptist, they're actually, you know, John the Baptist
is baptizing and he's preaching and, and, you know, they're
asking John like, OK, you know, what do we do?
You know, we got baptized. What do we do now?
And he, he addresses a few things, but he addresses
(10:36):
the soldiers and he says that, you know, the soldiers
are to treat people fairly and they're not to um
Ah, be dishonest and you know, if, if military service
was not.
Anything that a believer should be involved in. I think
John could have easily said like, hey, you know what,
(10:56):
you're gonna have to resign from your job as a soldier. Uh,
we don't allow that in the kingdom. Um, but of
course he didn't do that. And so, yeah, what do
you think? Totally agree. I, I would, I always think
that's a great answer to that part. I, I want
to speak to the part where he says, but I
don't want to ruin whatever God has in store for me.
(11:18):
This is a, um, maybe it's separate from just the military,
so it's kind of a broader approach.
Uh, most of us Christians have had this like feeling
of like, I'm so afraid, cause I know me, right?
I know my capabilities. I can mess up everything. I
can lose everything, I can ruin every relationship, like I,
I'm aware, you know, that I can really mess things up.
(11:40):
So the problem is, is then you start talking about
your like your life, right? Who do I marry, where
do I go to school, what do I do for
a living?
And you're like, oh my gosh, I am probably gonna
mess this one up, and then I'm gonna end up
with God's second best, or whatever. And I think that
we've got to remember something, unless we're like living and
walking in sin, right? So let's take sin out of the,
(12:03):
you know, like living in like knowing we're in sin
and still willfully choosing that, take that out for a
second and just say, a normal Christian person who's like,
I just wanna follow God, I, in this case, I
wanna join the military and serve God there.
I think we need to be more aware of God's
ability to keep us in His will than in our
ability to mess it all up. God is greater than
(12:24):
we are, and so you can walk in that kind
of trust that like I'm wanting to serve God, I'm
wanting to do what's best. If God didn't want you
in the military, he's very capable of keeping you out
of that.
And so trust him on that. And I, I agree,
like what you said, Brian, I think it's an honorable
thing to choose to serve in the military. And if
God's called you, go for it. Yeah, and you, of course,
(12:47):
you're in, um, you're in San Diego, and you've got
a large military population down there. And when I used
to be in North County San Diego, we were right
at the
Um, you know, the back gate of Camp Pendleton, and
we had lots of military guys. As a matter of fact,
a well-known name for our listeners, Tony Clark. Uh, Tony
(13:09):
came to our church in Vista while he was a Marine.
And so I did not know that. Yeah, yeah, he was, uh, fun. Yeah,
it was great. Now, like you said, yeah, we're, we're
flooded with Navy and
I mean, you know, we're a navy town, this is
San Diego, and these are some of the greatest people
you'll ever have, a part of your church. They, they're
(13:31):
so moved, like they're, they're so fluid in their lives
that when they get there, they're so quick to make
family and friends and just jump in and we love it.
It's a, it's a very honorable thing to do. Now, I,
I'm just gonna
Maybe correct myself here just because I'm, I'm not sure
Tony was still in the Marines when he came to
the church at first. I think he might have, um,
(13:52):
been discharged already, but
But he was out there. He was in the area
because he had been stationed at Camp Pendleton. Yeah, that's cool.
Now my dad was a Marine too. Yes, and he
fought in Vietnam. Now the reason I want to address
the elephant in the middle of the room, and I
think what, uh, Alexanders may be getting at, I'm just
reading into his question, what if I'm called into combat
(14:12):
like my dad was, and you have to shoot and
kill people? Doesn't the Bible say thou shalt not kill?
What do you do about that? The Bible says thou
shalt not murder.
And those are two entirely different things. So, self-defense, defending
the weak, um, law enforcement, you know, you would have to,
you would have to really apply that across the board
and say, well, you know, we can't even have any
(14:33):
law enforcement, uh, if we're gonna go with that kind
of a position. So, I, I don't think you can
support that biblically. The the command is you shall not murder.
And the idea there is premeditated murder. So if you're
acting in the line of duty in combat, OK, that
wouldn't be considered murder. OK, fair enough. Well, great question
(14:55):
from Alexander on Instagram. Again, you can call 888-564-6173 to
talk to Pastor Brian and Pastor Phil. Uh, Kelly, this
one comes from Facebook. She's in Menefee.
And she asks, how can I explain to a loved
one that does not want to use a computer or
phone or cell or landline, um, because they think AI
(15:17):
is from Satan. I don't think this is reasonable. Can
one of the pastors explain why it's OK to use
technology and that it is not evil? And I'll go
to Phil on that one first.
Well, first of all, if they don't have a phone
or a landline or a computer, then what are they
worried about AI? I guess I mean it's not much
a part of their life, so yay for them, good job. Um, yeah,
(15:39):
I mean, OK, so to, to her question, to Kelly's
question about, you know, can we, um, the use of
technology that is not evil, Technology, just like everything else
in the world is like it just exists.
And then how it is used by humanity, uh, takes
on either good or bad, and so, you know, obviously
(16:00):
when we talk about technology, especially whenever there's like a
new technology, right? When you talk about new technology, uh,
we get a little bit like, oh no, what's happening,
what's going on, and, and a lot of that just
comes from the fact that we finally figured out how
to use what we've got, and now you just changed
it again, and so, change creates a lot of like
fear and, and worry.
(16:21):
Um, but then to associate that with like the devil, listen,
the devil's working on every level, like on the most,
like the devil's not worried about just technology, he's out
there to try to steal, kill and destroy on every level.
Technology is a really easy platform for that, but it
can be used for good. We as Christians should use.
Use the tools that are around us, because that's all
(16:43):
technology is, is a tool, and we should use it
for good and be very aware that the enemy is
always out there trying to, to ruin people's lives in, in,
in multiple, you can have no landline and still have
the devil coming after you.
Yeah, I'm, I'm convinced the devil is still in dial-up.
You know, he's, he's still actually, you know, got his
(17:03):
fingers in dial-up. More than, more than everywhere else is
the modem, the phone modem, 100%. But, but like you said, uh,
you know, Phil, it's true. I mean, like when every,
almost when every new technology comes along, there is, um, sometimes,
you know, a handful of people or or a group
(17:25):
of people.
Uh, who are Christians, who are suspicious and who think, oh, no,
you know, this, this is bad. And, um, and you know,
after a while, they realize, like you said, it's a tool.
It's a tool that can be used. So I was
talking to a friend the other day, and, you know,
(17:46):
he asked me a question.
And I basically said, hey, have you used chat GPT?
And he said, no, you know, I said, you need
to use chat GPT. I mean, this is the this
is the perfect place to get answers to these kinds
of questions. And so he's like, really, you think so?
(18:06):
And I, I, and I said, well, of course you
use Google, right? And he says, yeah, obviously. And I said, well,
this is just like Google on steroids. So, you know, yes,
use chat GPT.
Yes, good advice. Now, my concern about AI, and I've
mentioned this before about AI, I mean, somebody could make
a video of us doing pastor's perspective with looks just
(18:28):
like us, sounds just like Brian Broderson, sounds just like
Phil Metzger, sounds just like.
They're seeing us talking, and we never said any of
that stuff. Somebody has made that on their computer. Yeah,
and that's the kind of AI that they're actually uh outlawing. They're,
they're not deep fake stuff. They're, uh, it's illegal, actually. Um, because,
(18:49):
because of what you just said. I mean, you could actually,
you know, you could frame somebody for committing a crime
or something by just creating an AI version of it.
And so, um, yeah, so these are the kinds of
things that there will be, you know, more and more
guidelines and restrictions put on as, as time goes on.
(19:09):
But some of, some of the, some of the deep
fake AI stuff though is hilarious on, you know, when
you see just some of the different things that they
have people do, you know, especially when it's like all
the world leaders kind of
You know, if they're out like surfing together or something,
or they're, you know, playing in a playing in a
a maharachi band or something, you're just like, wow, OK. No,
(19:34):
the funny stuff is, is funny. It's hilarious. I've seen
that stuff too, but I'm more concerned about if it's
a news.
Cast and they're saying this stuff and it's your favorite
newscaster and it's like people are believing this. Yeah, no,
I mean that, but, but like I said, I mean,
this is the area where there, there's a lot of
anxiety from a lot of people about uh the potential
(19:56):
of where AI could go and I think it's, you know,
it's justifiable. So hopefully you have to think too like.
Like, to your, your point, Michael, you have to think,
you're thinking about it, like, how could we ever expose
these deepfakes, well, by AI like AI can identify AI.
So the very tool we're afraid of is also going
(20:18):
to be the thing that helps us to see and
discover what is a deep fake, right? So like, like
right now if there's a deep fake video and I
just watch it, my eyes tell me one thing, but
if I could, if I could ask Chuck.
GPT or you know, one of these other Gemini or whatever,
is this video real, and then it's able to, it's
able to look at the code and say no, that's
(20:38):
not real. What my point is, is that the same
thing that we're afraid of is also going to be
in some ways our
Our, our, our biggest help because it's gonna be able
to identify all these like, you know, is, uh, you know,
Kim Jong-un riding a surfboard, you know, down in Maui,
and it's like chachipiti, no.
(21:00):
And here's the proof for that, you know, you know, I,
I was, uh, I was seeing all of these great
videos of cats, like, you know, taking on a bear
and taking on, you know, like a mountain lion and
a wolf and all of that. You're just like, that's amazing.
So I sent it to my grandson. He just sends
me back.
He says, it's AI. That's all he said.
(21:25):
Oh yeah, well, you know, I'm your grandpa, so yeah,
I guess I would get faked. I got the deep fake.
They look so real, it's easy to get faked. Yeah,
so we have to use AI to fight AI, yeah,
fight fire with fire. All right, well, great question from
Kelly in Menefee on Facebook. Again, 888-564-6173.
(21:47):
Again, 888-564-6173 if you'd like to talk to Pastor Brian
Broderson or Pastor Phil Metzger. Uh, Mike on Facebook asks, uh,
what would you say to someone who thinks the earth
is flat based on the Bible? Their words, not mine.
When I asked where, he told me all through the Bible,
(22:08):
especially Genesis one, but wouldn't tell me more than that. Um,
what would you say to Mike?
Um,
I would say to your friend, you gotta tell me
more because Genesis 1 isn't going to convince me of that.
I mean, you know, there are places where scripture speaks
figuratively like the four corners of the earth and and
(22:29):
things like that. And you know, we use figurative language,
the rising of the sun and, and all of that,
which we know that that is figurative.
Um, and, and likewise, we should know that the four
corners of the earth are figurative. It's talking about north, south,
east and west.
Um, yeah, you know, I, I just don't.
(22:54):
On one level, I don't get why people want to
preoccupy themselves with the shape of the earth at this
stage when you have uh all the amazing ability in
the world to, or you can just look up at
the moon and you can see that the moon isn't flat.
So if the moon's not flat, why would the earth
(23:14):
be flat?
Um, but on the other hand, I just think like, OK,
let's just say the earth is flat. Who cares? What, what, why,
why do you even care? OK, you know, what's the
big deal if the earth is flat, fine, let it
be flat.
Uh, that's a real simplified take on it. And that's
(23:35):
gonna be my deep fake video. Pastor Emeritus Calvary Costa
Mesa says Earth is flat, Earth is flat.
And here is a video of him walking off. Yeah,
he just walked off of the cliff of the Earth.
He just, he just left Earth.
I mean, like, Phil, it's 2025. Why?
(23:58):
Why are people talking about the earth being flat these days? It's,
it's nutty.
It's, it's on the rise. This is what is, I mean,
we have more access to information and, and, and, and
to the point that Michael, you were making earlier, this
is the, this is what's crazy. More informa, I mean
(24:19):
the Bible says that, that information will make you mad,
and it literally is making us all go crazy, because
we have better, I mean we have satellites, we have
all these things.
And like you've never seen a flat Earth in one
of them, not one, you've never seen them, and yet
more people by percentage believe in a flat Earth today
than they did even like 2030 years ago, or even wild.
(24:42):
2000 years ago, you know, people, people often say, well,
the ancient people believed the earth was flat. No, they didn't.
I mean, you're hard pressed to find anybody in the
ancient world that thought the earth was flat, maybe a
little sect somewhere here or there, but
I always tell people, like, I've met a few of
those and I always remind them like, well, again, you're
using poetic language to try to define science, and that's
(25:05):
not fair. But then in another sense, the Bible, like Ecclesiastes,
the Bible talks about the, the wind, and wind exists
because the earth's on a rotation and a flat surface
is not rotating.
There's, this is a round Earth that is rotating, and
as it rotates, there are wind patterns, north, south, east
(25:25):
and west. So, the very fact that we have wind
patterns speaks to a, a, a round uh uh a globe. Yeah.
So I, I would just go back to your friend
and say, well, you know, show me a specific passage
that says the earth is flat, which of course they
will not be able to do.
(25:46):
And if they point to the the four corners of
the earth, just you can just say, well, look, this
is figurative language. The Bible uses figurative language on a
number of occasions and expects us to understand that this
is figurative language. Jesus said, ah, I am the door. Uh,
Jesus says, I am the vine. Jesus is not a
(26:06):
door or a vine. This is figurative language to communicate
a certain truth.
Fair enough. Fair enough. Very true. All right, well, thank
you so much, Mike contacting us on Facebook. Uh, we're
going to go to the calls at 888-564-6173 and talk
to Alice. Alice, welcome to the program.
(26:29):
Alice, are you there?
Alice,
Maybe we'll go back to Alice, yes. Uh, maybe we
can go back to Alice in a little while, uh,
maybe at the second half of the program, hopefully. But, uh,
just another quick Facebook question. Uh, April asked, does the
Bible teach that there are generational curses? Uh, Phil, what
(26:50):
would you say to that?
OK, I was unmuting there, um, generational curses, yeah, this,
this comes up quite a bit, um, what does the
Bible teach about that? Um, the Bible doesn't teach that
there are ongoing spiritual curses, uh, for us as believers.
The New Testament's pretty clear, even in the Old Testament
that like,
We're not, so, OK, I want to look at this
(27:12):
with two perspectives, we're not, there, there's no generational curse,
you are no longer like what you're, the sins of
the fathers are not gonna be passed down to you,
but then why does this still kind of exist and
why are these ideas still out there? Because we gotta
separate the concept of generational curse from like habits.
Um, we are, we are habitual people, right, so like
if I see my, what I learned from my dad, the,
(27:36):
the odds are I'll probably continue to do that, right?
So I was like, 00, this is how he raised me,
I'm gonna raise my kids this way.
Um, and Michael just stop me when the music starts
playing cause I won't hear it. Um, and so, or,
or you say this, oh, my parents were terrible and
I'm gonna do the exact opposite, as if doing the
exact opposite will produce the results that you want. So, we,
(27:57):
we tend to mistake, um, habits and patterns that we've
learned as Christians, as if that's a generational curse, and no,
you in Jesus Christ, you are a new creation in
Christ Jesus, there's nothing held against you, you are free
to make your own mistakes, which you will.
And the grace of God is great to cover those things.
Yes, and I think Brian, you've talked about generational curses before.
(28:20):
I think Pastor Chuck even mentioned it as well. Is
that something you guys had to
We're confronted with, even though I don't think believe you
believe in it. I mean, it's an idea that is
prevalent in certain charismatic circles, you know, they often will.
Um, attribute a person's problems in their life to generational curses,
(28:41):
you know, you're, you're the way you are because there
was a curse placed on your great great great great
grandmother or something like that. And which to which we
just say, look, there's no biblical evidence for that. Um, the,
the scripture talks about um
You know, God visiting the sins of the fathers on
the children, uh, to the 3rd and 4th generation, but
(29:04):
that's more like Phil saying, that's more just a natural
progression of people, uh, behaving sinfully.
Because they're observing sinful behavior patterns. But the thing to
remember about that statement that you find in Exodus is, um,
(29:25):
the statement refers to those who hate me, God says,
but mercy and compassion to those who love me. So
once you come to Jesus, whatever there was in your background, uh,
is broken.
And you, you have a whole new thing with the Lord.
So a great answer. All right, we, I've been told
(29:47):
Alice is back from Oceanside, so we'll talk to her
the second half of the program. If you'd like to
talk to the pastors, call 888-564-6173. Again, 888-564-6173. We'll see
you on the second half of the program.
(30:21):
Hello and welcome back to the second half of Pastor's Perspective.
I'm Michael David in for Brian Perez. On today's program,
we have Pastor Brian Broderson and Pastor Phil Metzger. If
you'd like to talk to the pastors, call 888-564-6173. Again, 888-564-6173.
On the first half of the program, we tried to
(30:41):
go to Alice in Oceanside. We were not able to
get her on, but we're going to see if we
can get her on now. Alice, are you there now?
Hello hello, yes, you are. Welcome to the program.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Thank you very much. Um, my question is about, uh,
businesses who, uh, I don't know, uh, it's about McDonald's
this month they're promoting the Grinch, and to me that
seems like that's in opposition of Christmas, and I just
wanted to get your perspective on how we should feel
(31:14):
about that or.
Is it something that we, we should boycott because we
all know that the Grinch tends to ruin people's Christmases.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Well, right, he stole Christmases from what I understand, correct? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
So should we be supporting that? I mean, every time
I get a cup of coffee there, I have to
wrap my hand around a green Grinch, and I'm not
like I'm not feeling too good about that.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Well, Alice, um, I think that that is something that
you would have to decide on your own, based on
your own conviction. Um, I, I don't think
I don't think McDonald's, I, I could be wrong, but
I don't think McDonald's said, hey, this year at Christmas time,
(32:03):
let's do like an anti, uh, Christmas theme and let's,
you know, intentionally, uh,
Ignore
The real reason for the season, uh, which is Jesus,
which I don't think they ever acknowledge anyway, and, and,
you know, let's, let's do something that's gonna move people
(32:24):
away from Jesus toward the Grinch. Um, I, so I don't,
I don't think they did anything like that. I think,
you know, somehow the Grinch has become associated with Christmas
over the years, obviously through the book and the movie, um.
And I think for some people, it's just, some people
like the Grinch. I, you know, I personally never liked
the Grinch. I just don't like the guy. I think he's,
(32:44):
I think he's ugly. I think he's mean. He's all
those things, you know. So I don't, I don't care
for him and I wouldn't want him on my coffee
cup either. But, uh, but I, I don't think there's
an intentional thing that Christians should say, can't go to
McDonald's because of the Grinch. What do you think, Phil?
I mean, I'm just, I'm finding out so much about
(33:06):
Brian today. Uh, these things are, this is so good.
It's so good to be on the show twice a
week because I learned so much. Um, yeah, I mean,
you didn't know that I had those strong feelings about
the Grinch, did you? Yeah, I didn't know, like I'm
gonna take your Christmas gift back because it's awkward now, but.
Um, Alice, I love your like heart and like you're not,
(33:28):
you know, like Brian said, like this is like, you
have to, your own convictions and all. I, I, I
do agree with what he said there. This is not
an intention to minimize our faith. This is not an anti-Christian.
Um, it's probably more a business decision of they have
(33:48):
a partnership with the, whoever owns the Grinch character, and I,
you know, I have grandkids in this category, and I,
I got a school at our church. All these kids
want to get the socks, they have a couple different colors,
nobody's thinking much about the, um,
You know, the, the message as much as just these
(34:11):
like kind of cute green socks, yellow socks, purple, I
hear this all day, I really need to get the
blue socks, you know, and it's more of like a
fun thing, but you know, again, if it's your conviction,
you wanna, you wanna be led by your convictions, but I, I,
I'm not sure that like, that McDonald's, in fact I
know it, they're not out to ruin Christmas for us Christians,
(34:31):
it's just a
Like everything, it's just a business thing that they're doing,
and um, we don't have to like Grinch, uh, like
Brian doesn't like Grinch, and um and uh you know,
and I I don't know, I mean, but you don't
feel like you're compromising by getting a cup of coffee
at McDonald's. I, I would just say there's, there's other
places to get coffee, that's more my issue. Uh, Alice,
(34:54):
I'm gonna take, you're in Oceanside, I'm gonna take you
to some good coffee shops.
Now, now, Brian, you mentioned this called The Grinch That
Stole Christmas. But if it's been a million years since
I've seen it, but he tried to steal Christmas, so
he stole all the presents. He stole all the decorations.
He stole all the food, but Christmas still came anyway.
It was like it was more than just that. Oh yeah,
(35:15):
say that again, Phil. He changed his heart. He had
a little heart, and then he got a big heart. Well,
you know, I, I just, I mean.
OK, this is happening. I, I don't, you know, I, I, I,
I'm just not sure that I believe he really was sincere,
so he might not have changed. I'm holding on to my,
(35:35):
my deep animosity.
Now some people have actually said that that is an
underlying low-key Christian message with his heart getting bigger and
he saw that it's more than that changing over Christmass. Well,
you know, maybe that is the case. I still don't like, I,
I don't like Doctor Seuss, uh, characters just because I
(35:56):
just don't like them, not for any spiritual reason.
I just don't like them. And see, and that's another point.
That's fair. We just, there's some things we just don't like.
It's not Christian or not, it's we don't like it.
And I'm not saying the Grinch That Stole Christmas is
a Christian story. I'm saying I've heard some people argue
that with his heart changing towards it. Some people argue that, uh.
(36:20):
What's the movie that everybody argues about is a Christmas movie? Oh, the, um,
what's that like violent, uh, the Bruce Willis movie Die
Hard Die Hard. Is that a Christmas movie or not? Yeah, yeah. Yes, yes.
All right, and I, I've not seen Die Hard either,
so I, I don't know if it's a Christmas movie
or not. You can ask Ed. he's in England. Ask him. He'll,
he'll go on an hour rant about that movie and Christmas.
(36:43):
He will, yes, he's, he's got a lot of opinions
about that. Me and my sister argue.
Over the Nightmare Before Christmas, I say that is a
Halloween movie. She says, No, it's a Christmas movie. I'm like, that?
Why do we see this guy at Halloween, you know,
if it's a Christmas movie? Oh, it's the headless horseman. No, it's, uh,
Jake Skellington. Jack Skellington. Thank you. Yes, and, and all
those oogie boogie and Molly, they all show up at Halloween. So,
(37:07):
and they stick around at Christmas, you know. So yeah,
I think it's the Halloween movie, she says it's the Christmas, dude,
you can put up your Halloween.
Decorations and then just put a Santa hat on them
and you can leave them up from October to December.
That's what's happening. That is exactly what's going on with that.
No doubt about it. Yes. Well, thank you, Alice, for
(37:27):
that great question from Oceanside. We appreciate you calling us
at 888-564-6173. We're going to go from Oceanside to Garden
Grove and talk to Sonia. Sonia, welcome to the program.
Hi, I have a question. It's about regarding my daughter's marriage.
If um you guys can refer to uh any counseling,
(37:52):
like marriage counseling because
Are their marriage like is falling apart and I just
wanna see if that can help and, you know, to, um,
for them to still marry, to, you know, continue marry. Mhm. Uh,
do they have a church, Sonia, that they're part of?
(38:14):
Yes, they do, but you know, the, the our pastor
is leaving and this new pastor is going to take
over the church and um we, we're going to be
out of church for like 3 weeks, you know, because
they're the new pastor is taking over the church and
then they, you know, they're doing like different things in
there and she already reached out to them but no
(38:38):
one has, uh, called them back or, or, or nothing,
you know, and.
And I just, I just, I broke my heart to
see them, and they have like two little girls. They're
like 1 year old and 2 years old. Mm, yeah.
No, that's, that's really, really hard, um.
(39:02):
Yeah, of course, counseling can be very helpful.
Um, and there are, there are good counselors, um, out there.
I don't have a, a recommendation off the top of
my head.
Um, I, I, you know, I would always look to
the church first and to the, the pastoral staff and then,
(39:25):
you know, let them sort of take, take the lead
from there, um.
Yeah, so I, I get that the church is in
a transition with a new pastor. You know, a lot
of churches will give some counseling to people even if
they're not members of the church. Uh, we did that
(39:45):
for years here at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa. We have many,
many people that would come in.
Uh, for counseling that weren't actually, um, you know, part
of the congregation, we just did that as a service.
And so you might
You might look around for a church in the area,
maybe even call a few churches and ask if they
(40:06):
do counseling and specifically if they do marriage counseling.
Yes, uh, Sonia, what do you think about that?
Yeah, I mean, I guess they can call them, but
I was just hoping that you guys can, um, refer
to somebody, to someone, you know, that, that you guys know, um,
(40:28):
in Chris' church. Yeah, there's a, there's a counselor, uh,
a counseling.
Um, ministry that we refer people to called Journeys.
And they're based here in Costa Mesa.
And so we've had um.
A number of people we've we've recommended to journeys counseling ministry.
(40:50):
So Michael's just pulled it up here on the
On the web, and so if you go to journeys counseling.com.
You can get more information there, and then it says
here up on the right hand side, you can even
request an appointment.
Yes, so, uh, Sonia, can you check out that, uh,
journeys counseling.com? Yes, OK, yes, I'm going to tell my
(41:14):
daughter journeys counseling.com. Yes, that's right. That's it. That's the one.
All right, well, thank you so much, Sonia, for calling
from Garden Grove at 888-564-6173. Again, that's 888-564-6173. If you
would like to talk to Brian Broderson or Phil Metzger.
You were gonna say something. Oh, I thought you were
(41:34):
gonna say something. OK. All right, very good. Well, in
that case, let's go to Cheryl in Mission Viejo. Cheryl,
welcome to the program.
Hello, how are you?
Good.
Wonderful. All right, here's my question.
I have noticed that the church at large has started
(41:58):
ordaining women as bishops.
I understand some people get confused when the Bible says man,
where they need to know where he's speaking gender versus mankind.
But I think the passage about a bishop is self-explanatory.
What do you all think? Should women be ordained as bishops?
(42:23):
Are you referring to any specific um case of a
woman being ordained as a bishop?
I don't
I don't sit under.
Anyone that is a bishop, but yet I see on
social media, uh, I see on YouTube where there are
women who operate in the position of bishop. So there's
(42:47):
no particular one I'm going to. I just
Based on my understanding, don't think that passage means that
women are to be bishops. I'm not speaking about them
not being pastors or, you know, teachers or prophetess, but
I just don't think that passage means women to be bishops.
(43:09):
What say you?
OK, well, the reason I ask that is because, um,
for the first time in 100.
Oh, no, not 100, um, it's 157th Archbishop of Canterbury, uh,
is a woman. So this is the first time in,
in the history of the Church of England that a
(43:32):
woman has been the Archbishop. That, so that's new, um.
The passage that you're referring to now, Bishop, let's let's
kind of break that down for a moment because bishop
is a, it's a church word, it's a it's a
religious word. When you think of bishop, I know for me,
you know, I, I grew up in Roman Catholicism when
(43:53):
I was young. And so you very much understood what
a bishop at least looked like, a long flowing robe
and a bishop's miter, which was a hat.
And, uh, you know, all of the, the bishop's staff,
all of those things. OK, so as church history developed,
(44:13):
the office of bishop developed along with it. But the
word is a simple word. It's two Greek words that
means to oversee. And so the Greek words are episcopas, uh, epi,
which means over.
And scoopus, which means like you would think it means
like to scope, uh, to scope it out, so it
(44:36):
means to oversee.
And yet, you know, historically and through, of course, the
King James Version of the Bible, and then other versions
that came after it, uh, the, the more religious type
of word bishop, uh has come down to us. So
the word simply means overseer.
And Paul gives instruction in um 1 Timothy and Titus
(45:01):
about uh most specifically in 1 Timothy, he gives instruction
in chapter 3. If any man desires the office of
the overseer, he desires a good thing.
And then Paul um refers to um.
You know, so, so in the New Testament, you have
(45:22):
references to elders, you have references to shepherds or shepherding,
and you have references to oversight or overseeing. And now
some people have taken those and they've really, um, really
built a theology around those terms and said this is
what these terms mean, and this is how people are
(45:44):
to function in relation to these terms.
And then others have looked at the same terms and
drawn different conclusions. And so, um, you know, you mentioned
you you seem to be seeing more of this today. Um, the,
the Pentecostal denominations that are prevalent today like the Assembly
(46:05):
of God, for example, or the Four Square churches, they
have ordained, um, women into leadership roles in churches.
Uh, from the, from the very beginning.
And um,
Let, let me say one more thing about the bishop. Uh,
the bishop was the local overseer of the church. So,
(46:30):
The pastor
The one who was giving oversight to the local congregation.
That's who Paul is describing there. The idea of a
bishop being like a regional sort of a figure who
oversees a number of congregations, and they have a number
of of different people under them or like a college
of bishops or cardinals or something like that. These are
(46:53):
all things that came later in church history and not
aren't necessarily really um
A good picture of the New Testament, uh, teaching on it. Um, I, I,
I think as time goes on, I, I've thought this
for a while.
That although we would like to have a super clear
(47:14):
structure of this is exactly how it's laid out in
the New Testament, uh, the more I study the scripture,
the more difficult it seems to me to lay out
like a very much like this is exactly the way
it's supposed to be done. I think there's intentional ambiguity
because the gospel is going to be a, a multicultural
thing that's going to go around the world. And there's
(47:36):
going to need to be flexibility to adjust from culture
to culture.
So
That was a long answer. I think that was a,
that was a great answer. I think that was a
great answer, and I think like, I don't, I don't
think it's on the rise. I, I, I think people
need to, I'm not, I couldn't add, I honestly, Brian,
couldn't add to what you, I thought you did such
(47:57):
a great job. I think sometimes though, like I was
thinking of this, obviously you and I, we talk about
this quite a bit, um.
I, I think like people, there's this assumption that like if,
if a woman is leading a church, then it is, by,
by the nature of her leading, it is a liberal church,
and this, you know, again, the assemblies of God would say, well,
(48:20):
we'd like to talk with you about that because this
hasn't been the case, we have been biblically sound believers
in the inerrancy of scripture.
Solid in our orthodoxy for 100+ years, and the same
with 400 others. Now let's acknowledge what, let's let's just
call it what it is, liberalism can exist, man or woman,
(48:41):
so you certainly you can have a woman leading a church,
you can be extremely liberal. Guess what, you've got a
lot of men leading churches that are very liberal as well.
And so we, we, we think it's important to separate
those things out, that by nature of a woman leading
doesn't mean that it is, it is immediately liberal. The
other thing I would say is this, because of that
intentional ambiguity that Brian was talking about that I wholeheartedly
(49:03):
agree with, churches and church movements, we create kind of
our own comfort zones, we create our own space that
we say, this is where we generally land, and, but
it is our responsibility to acknowledge.
There are people who don't land where we do, who
love the Lord Jesus, they love the gospel, they love
the word of God, we just disagree with this on
(49:25):
a secondary matter, it's not a salvation issue, so, uh,
I know we're saying a lot, I hope this kind
of helps you. Uh, let's see, Cheryl, does that help?
I appreciate all that I've heard and I had the
understanding that the word bishop, that was not the problem
(49:48):
for me because I know it's an administrator, right? An overseer,
but I was meaning the qualification. I got there pretty
clear that it says it's a man who's been married to, uh,
one wife, you know, with a great reputation, but if
the qualifications are no longer.
(50:08):
Self explanatory then I see why it's happened.
But it just seems like based on the Bible, it's
saying that it is a man married to a woman,
which that's what we believe marriage is a man and
a woman. I don't have a problem with women in leadership.
I just think that qualification, I can't swear that it
(50:32):
means something different today. Yeah.
Yeah, well, I, and I don't know that anybody would say,
I mean, it obviously means what it means in, in
that context. Some would, some would say though, that um
Paul's laying out kind of a general rule. And he's
not saying he he he doesn't even address the issue
(50:54):
of whether a woman could be in the position or not.
He's just addressing what would have been the common experience
of the men rising up.
But, you know, having not said, but make sure you
never put a woman in this role, that as time
went on, and maybe, you know, cultural differences would allow
for a woman to be in a place like that. So,
(51:17):
like Phil said, there, you know, there are good Christian
people who have different opinions about these things. There are
very scholarly, um,
Attempts to really get, you know, deeper into what what
the Bible is teaching on this, and people land in
(51:39):
different places. And so, like, like Phil also said, I
think we want to make sure that we keep the
main things, the main thing. And of course, the gospel
of Jesus is the main thing. I think of um
I spent a lot of time in England as as
some would know.
And um there's a few, no, I just mentioned the
(51:59):
the new Archbishop of Canterbury is a woman. Now, I
think it's unfortunate that she's in that position, not because
she's a woman, but because she is a woman who
denies the authority of scripture and a bunch of other things.
And I think that's a problem. But I also know
of a couple of women bishops in England, who are phenomenal.
And they are actually holding the line of orthodoxy against
(52:21):
liberal men.
who are pushing a theologically liberal agenda. And I thank
God that those women are in the position that they're in.
Hm.
Fair enough. Fair enough. Cheryl, Cheryl, does that help?
You know, it, it helped in the sense of trying
to get a wrap around why is it that today
(52:44):
we have all these different thoughts, right, regarding it because
even a man, when he's a bishop and he has
gotten a divorce.
And he's not even managing his household well, and that's
one of the qualifications, but you don't to cut you off.
I want to do the divorced pastor thing. What, what
is that? What is your take? I mean, you know, divorce,
(53:04):
divorce is not the unpardonable sin, and it all depends
on the circumstances, you know, um, we can say a
lot of things about divorce, but we always have to
make sure.
We, we say them in the context of what the
divorce is. So let's just say very simply, a person
who is a victim of a divorce is free to
go on and do anything and everything in their life
(53:26):
and ministry that the Lord would lead them to do.
There's no restriction because they were not the perpetrator of
the divorce. But now it's a different story if it
is a person who
Um, is the one who causes the divorce, especially if
it's a person who's in ministry, which we've seen this
has happened many, many times that a pastor, uh, you know,
(53:50):
falls in love with the choir leader or something, and
then he leaves his wife and he goes off and,
you know, is married to her, whatever the case. Uh,
that's a, that's a whole different situation that needs to
be addressed for what it is. And I think there's
very specific things that would be said about that too.
All right. Well, Cheryl from Mission Viejos, thank you so
(54:12):
much for that call. Very important question, very hot topic
right now. So we definitely appreciate, appreciate you talking about
those hot topics. Uh, speaking of hot topics, uh, Sonia
in Garden Grove, she did ask us about mamarital counseling
for her daughter. Uh, Pastor Brian mentioned journeys counseling.com. Again,
journeys counseling.com. Also, uh, Focus on the Family does have
(54:33):
a phone number you can call which
Is 1-800-A family. Again, 1-800-A family or 800-232-6459. 800-232-6459. So, uh, again, Cheryl,
thank you for your call from Mission Viejo and Sonia
from Garden Grove. Thank you for your call as well
(54:56):
and everybody else who call in. We appreciate you calling in,
talking to Pastor Phil Metger from California.
Calvary Chapel San Diego, and also Pastor Brian Broderson, Pastor
Emeritus at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, Echoesof Mercy.com as well. Uh,
you can get more information about Pastor Phil at CalvarySD.com.
So you can call in tomorrow if you have questions
(55:17):
about the Bible, the Christian faith, how to live the
Christian life. 888-564-6173 is the number to call tomorrow, and
we will see you next time on Pastor's Perspective. Bye-bye.
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