8 Beliefs for Healthy Growth

Whether you realize it or not, the things you believe drive your behaviors. So, if you want to experience healthy growth in your life and your business, you need to start by examining your foundational beliefs about what growth is and where to find it. In this episode, Alex and Ben break down six beliefs about identity, purpose, and health that will keep you focused on what matters most as you pursue growth.

Information isn’t the gap between failure and success—action is. Path for Growth’s 1-on-1 coaching helps you create a plan and execute on what matters most for your business. Apply today at pathforgrowth.com/coaching.

Episode Recap:

• Belief drives behavior, and these beliefs are vital for healthy growth
• 1. Health and growth are not the same thing
• 2. Growth for the sake of growth is dead
• 3. Fulfillment is an inside job
• 4. My work is not who I am, my work is where I serve
• 5. I’m not going to see this finished
• 6. God’s promises do not exist outside of God’s boundaries
• Healthy growth can feel countercultural, so make sure to find people who share your commitment

If you’re ready to move beyond just gathering information and start executing on what truly matters, Path for Growth’s 1-on-1 coaching can help. Apply now at pathforgrowth.com/coaching.

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Episode Transcript

Ben Loy (00:02):
All right. So today we're talking about, eight
beliefs for healthy growth, andthis is something that a couple
of them we've touched on before,we've discussed, and then a few
that I'd really love to justdive a little bit deeper into.
So, I'm gonna let you throw thefirst one out.

Alex Judd (00:19):
So we're talking beliefs here, and the reason why
belief is so criticallyimportant, especially in the
life of a leader, is, like, yourbeliefs absolutely drive your
behavior. And so often, youknow, we live in a willpower
oriented world oftentimes thatwe think we need to engage in in
behavior modification. Andoftentimes, what we actually
need to do is we've internalizedsome poor or not true or false

(00:44):
beliefs. And if we can reorientour beliefs, well, then we can
reorient our behaviors moresustainably. And so with that,
the first thing that we we haveto believe if we're going to
practice healthy growth, thefirst thing that we have to
know, we've said it before,health and growth are not the
same thing, which is like such asimple statement because it's
like, it's literally twodifferent words.

(01:06):
Of course, they're not the samething, but I think we often get
them confused. Yeah.

Ben Loy (01:10):
How do they interact? Like, is it is it a spectrum? Is
it something like I guess, whatdoes it look like when you have
one and not the other?

Alex Judd (01:17):
Yeah. It's a good question, and I'd be interested
to know your thoughts on thatquestion too. I think that we
often perceive that if somethingis growing particularly in terms
of quantity or size, then wejust assume that it's healthy.
Right? From a spiritualperspective, I think this is,
like, very visible in the way wetalk about churches.

(01:39):
We're like, oh, man. This churchhas grown so much. They now have
you know, they they start at onecampus. Now they have five
campuses, and, you know, theythey now have x number of
thousand people attending. Andand it's crazy.
We hear that more like, oh, man.That that's so cool. That is
really healthy. Right? And it'slike, well, really, we just said
it's growing, which is a coolthing, and that's a good thing,

(02:00):
and we praise God for growth.
But don't just assume that thefact that it's growing means
that it's healthy. And wherethat really, really matters is
for the people that areresponsible for stewarding both
the health and the growth of thee the ecosystem or the
organization is is like we canget this idea. Well, are we
healthy? Of course, are. We'regrowing.
We added three locations in thepast year. Of course, we're

(02:22):
healthy. It's like, well, I Ithat's not how I would answer
that question is what I wouldsay.

Ben Loy (02:26):
Yeah. That's really interesting. I think I don't
remember who it was at church.This is a few years ago. One of
the pastors was up front and hewas just like, we have a formula
for, like, getting butts inseats.
Like, if we wanted to grow thischurch, like, there's an actual
formula to becoming a megachurchor to growing, you know, in that

(02:48):
capacity. And, I mean, thereason they were bringing it up
was because, like, I mean, it isnot a bad thing when churches
grow in that way, but, like,that is not what we're
prioritizing in this season andfor our community. And so
focusing they were just sayingthey were focusing on other
things.

Alex Judd (03:04):
It's not really that different from what you and I
were talking about this morningbefore we even started recording
is it can be so easy to getfocused on what we're busy with
that that we miss out on health.And what we're really saying
when we talk about health is,like, the vitals. Right? Like,
Yeah. You know, if you're like,hey.
I can run a marathon! And you goto your doctor and your doctor's

(03:27):
like, Okay, but your cholesterolis going to kill you and like,
you know, all these other vitalmarkers that are critically
important are like really in badshape. I'm thrilled that you
could run a marathon. Thatdoesn't mean that you're
healthy. Right?
And I think it's the same thing.There's certain things that are
like, that they're actually notall that different person to
person. They don't change thatmuch, but they do represent a

(03:50):
healthy individual and weshouldn't just take those for
granted because we're growing.

Ben Loy (03:55):
Yeah. In a lot of contexts, when it comes to
growth without health, there arethere are a lot of formulas out
there. There are a lot of rulesyou can follow, frameworks. Is
there a framework for health?

Alex Judd (04:07):
I think there are frameworks. Right? And and I
like we already said, would justencourage people, do not think
health at the highest level is achoose your own adventure game.
Right? I I love that frameworkthat Mike Valentin gave us at an
experience a couple years ago.
He said, god, marriage, kidswork in that order. Period.
Like, that that is what ishealthy. And that's, like, not,

(04:30):
like I I actually think that'snot up for debate. Right?
I'm not saying if if you don'thave kids or if you're single or
something like that. Right?Obviously, your world looks
different in the season of lifethat you're in. But if you have
each of those relationships inyour life, like, that's the
order that it's supposed to bein in terms of priority of your
heart, your attention, and yourmind. And it's the things, it's

(04:51):
the order of sacrifice too thatyou should be operating in.
Right? So that represents healthin so many ways. You know, we
could even look at just theother arenas that we're supposed
to be attending to that it's notreally up for debate or
question. Right? Like yourpersonal physical health, your
sleep, your spiritual life, yourability to live in community

(05:12):
with close friends, and family,your relationship with your
spouse, right?
Your ability to beintellectually growing as a
leader, right? Like, these arethings that it it it's what
we've been given to steward andexercise self control over. And
what's nice is because it's nota choose your own adventure
thing on some of these things,it is something that we can

(05:34):
pretty regularly come back toand just say, where am I
supposed to be, and where am Iat compared to where I'm
supposed to be, and realignourselves to where we're
supposed to be.

Ben Loy (05:42):
Let's move on to the second one because I think it's
related and kind of where thisconversation is going. Growth
for the sake of growth is dead.Can you explain that?

Alex Judd (05:51):
Well, this really shows up in the business arena.
Right? Like, we we live in atime in the business arena where
it's like, you need to 10 x yourbusiness. And you're like, why?
And because 10 x.
Right? And it's like, okay. I Iunderstand what it is, but why?
It's like, because 10 x. Right?
And and it's like, 10 x is afine goal. I actually have
nothing wrong with 10 x as agoal. Right? As a reason, I I

(06:15):
think 10 x is actually aterrible reason. And that's
because I think, like, theentire impetus behind 10 x as a
reason is this idea that, like,oh, once you 10 x it, that is
there.
And once you're there, you'llfeel fulfilled, satisfied,
content, all of these differentthings. And I I just think a

(06:36):
paradigm of practicing healthygrowth is radically different
than that. What is your motive?Motive matters is what we
constantly wanna help, you know,help people remember, and and,
you know, it it's reflected inthe proverb. I think it's four
twenty three.
Guard your heart above all elsefor out of it flows everything
you do. The the Hebrew word forheart there, I believe, is. I'm

(06:59):
trying to get my going with ourOrthodox Jewish friends here.
It's. A lot of times in Westernculture, we talk about heart as
being, like, your emotions.
In this culture and what itmeans biblically is, like, the
core of your being. It's thecomposition of your your
totality of self and soul andwill. It's the center of who you
are. And so guard the center ofwho you are, your vitals, what

(07:22):
matters most above all else. Forout of that flows every single
thing that you do.
And so our motives arecritically important, and we
should really, really examineour motives. And and growth for
the sake of growth, that's not agood motive.

Ben Loy (07:38):
I I feel like this is something that I've heard
mentioned a lot. And even morerecently, I found talking about
in conversations of, like,people will bring up a specific
leader or a pastor or someonewho acquired a lot of fame and
momentum at one point. And thenat some point, like, something
happens, whether it's scandal oror just unhealthy leadership or

(08:01):
the the the organization justfalls apart from the inside out.
And I feel like some, oftentimesthe conversation is, man, at the
beginning, they just seem sosolid. Or even you'll even,
like, hear from people who workwith them in the inside, like,
they seem so aligned at thebeginning.
Like, they seem like they had avirtuous purpose, behind what
they were doing. Like, how doyou protect from going astray as

(08:28):
time goes on?

Alex Judd (08:29):
Yeah. I mean, I I guess the first thing I would
say is maybe one of the answersto it is, I I don't fully know
because I don't I haven't fullydone that. Right? Like, I you
know, I could look up in fiveyears, and there could be a
podcast out there how Alex Juddand Path for Growth went astray.
It's like we laugh about that.
It's like the rise and fall ofPath for Growth. Right? And it's

(08:49):
like, we can laugh about that,but it's like, if I don't
believe that that is a legitpossibility, then that's strike
strike one, two, and three,quite So I think, like, number
one is recognize that you arewildly successful to the
downfall that you've seen somany other people fall for. And
the minute you think you'reabove or beyond that, you're the

(09:10):
person that's most at risk ofsuffering for that. And then
number two, I would say, like,because of that, I think the
most humble leaders that I knowand that I I try to follow in
this regard is, like, they haverhythms and structures that hold
them accountable to the thingsthat they say matter most.

(09:31):
So what a lot of people wouldsay is like, man, the soul of
this was so good at thebeginning, but they got away
from the soul of this. And a lotof times we have we don't have
rhythms and structures forevaluating, hey. Is the soul of
this still alive and well? Andwe do the same thing in our
personal lives. Right?
But it's wild how easy it is tostart with a really compelling

(09:53):
purpose or really strong why andthen to look up five, ten years
later, and the things thatyou're doing are in no way
connected to that purpose, orthat's not at all your driving
motive anymore. And it lookscompletely different than the
reason why you started, but itwas one inch at a time that you
deviated and never had anythingto pull you back. It it's why, I
mean, organizationally, in ourquarterly meetings, we I mean,

(10:16):
you were just part of our mostrecently core quarterly
strategic planning meetings.There are a lot of really good
quarterly strategic planningmeeting formats out there. Most
of them have you red, yellow,green your goals, and I think
that's good.
And we red, green our goals andour strategic priorities and our
vision charter. We do all that.But before we do all of that,
there's something different thatwe do that I see a lot of

(10:36):
formats don't do, and that's wealso red, yellow, green our
mission and our values. Andbecause they were like, if we
achieve the goal, but we abandonour mission and values in the
process, have we actually won?No.
It's like we totally abandonhealth. We're not treating
people well anymore for the sakeof growth. And so I would say

(10:57):
rhythm, structure. David Brookssays commitment is when you fall
in love with something to such adegree that you put structure
around it for the times when youno longer feel in love with it.
And, man, leaders get on theroller coaster of growth, and
it's exciting and it'senergizing.
And that roller coaster willtake you places unless you have

(11:19):
things to anchor and tether youto the things that actually
matter most.

Ben Loy (13:04):
I think you you've already spoken to this a little
bit, but, like, why why do youthink that's so common? Like,
why do you think it's so commonfor leaders to to stray in that
way?

Alex Judd (13:13):
Yeah. And it's so disappointing that it's so
common. There are so manystories, and and, like, everyone
talks about the stories, andthen some of the people that are
even talking about the storiesend up having the same story
written about them. Right? Andit's not even just like, oh,
this is like a a thing that hasexisted, you know, in the new
world that we live in.
It's like for 2,000, people havebeen thinking riches are the

(13:37):
answer, fame is the answer,power is the answer. And so I'm
gonna go get all those things,and then it's gonna result in
either, you know, me beingcompletely depressed because the
thing that I thought the answerwasn't or me letting down, I
mean, so so so many peoplebecause I sold them on a lie
because I bought the lie myself.And so why is it so common?

(13:59):
Well, I I just literally readyesterday morning. Right?
Jesus shakes his head and is,you know, almost sad, and he
says, man, he's justdisappointed how difficult it is
for the wealthy to enter thekingdom of heaven. Right? It's
more difficult than for thecamel to go through the eye of a
needle. And I I think that'shighlighting it. Right?
Like, these other things are sopromising and so attractive. And

(14:23):
not only are other temptations,fame, power, outside approval,
right, you know, fear of man.Not only are all these things so
tempting, I am so wildlysusceptible to that. Like, is
something broken in my heartthat has literally been
convinced that, oh, that's theanswer. That's the thing that's
gonna make all of this right.
And because the world is puttingthose things on blast and

(14:45):
marketing them to us every dayas wildly available and I'm
wildly susceptible, it's liketwo puzzle pieces. So but the
cool thing about that verse is,man, then the disciples go,
well, how can anyone enter thekingdom of heaven? And Jesus
literally says, well, with man,it's impossible, but with God,
all things are possible. And sothere you go. There's a there's

(15:07):
a core answer to what it lookslike to grow in a healthy way
where you're becoming more ofwho God actually created you to
be is, like, you gotta do itwith God.
And and I think this gets intothe idea of health and growth.
It's like we sometimes think I'mgonna grow, and then I'm gonna
meet God at the finish line.It's like, with God, all things
are positive. It's not it's notyou you grow and then there's

(15:28):
God. It's with God, and we gottaremember that.

Ben Loy (15:30):
Yeah. This works really well into the third belief. And
partly because when we werepreparing for this, I read it
and I was like, this could be aheresy.

Alex Judd (15:40):
Yeah. You don't Okay. You don't want explain it. Share
the belief and then you explainyour thought process Well,

Ben Loy (15:45):
you said, like, so the the belief is fulfillment is an
inside job. Yeah. And, like,immediately I mean, that's what
the world tells us in so manyways. It's like, you know, self
fulfillment is the way and, likeYeah. You know, yeah, just just
look within, you know, navelgaze, like, build yourself up in
a way, and that's when you'll befulfilled, be Yeah.
Be at peace, whatever. And, soit is funny because you're like,

(16:09):
fulfillment is an inside job,but what do you mean by that
versus, like, that context?Because Yeah. We're talking two
very different inside jobs, Ithink.

Alex Judd (16:18):
That's the the that's the most, kind way to say, are
you a heretic? I'm not positive?Yeah. I think I'm thinking about
this from the the perspective ofif you are a believer.

Ben Loy (16:28):
Mhmm.

Alex Judd (16:28):
Right? And so, really, what I think of the
first time I think of, like,fulfillment as an inside job is
I I think of the Ecclesiastesstory. Herman Melville was the
author of, Moby Dick. He was anatheist, and he said
Ecclesiastes was the truest ofall books, which I think if I

(16:49):
was an atheist, I would say,well, then it's probably worth
paying attention to. Right?
Even more so as believers thatthis thing was so accurate and
so convincing that someone thatsaid, I don't agree. I don't
agree with the philosophy behindthe bible at all, but I agree
with Ecclesiastes. It's reallyworth paying attention to,
especially for the culturalmoment that we live in because
as a believer I'm like, wellthen this is, you know, this

(17:11):
this philosophy and somehowconnects with what people
experience as real. And what isEcclesiastes the story of? It's
the story of, you know, a manthat pursued multiple different
avenues to find fulfillment andran the course of every single
avenue.
He said, I'm gonna pursueriches, and he gained all the

(17:32):
money in the world. And he said,and it was vanity. It was dust
in the wind. It didn't meananything. Right?
It was a vapor. It just drifted.And then he said, I'm gonna even
pursue wisdom, which we wouldeven say like, Ecclesiastes is a
book of wisdom. And he said, I'mgonna grow myself with
knowledge. And I and he evensays, I'm gonna understand
everything about plants andinsects and animals and the way
the world is designed andcreated.

(17:53):
And he said, I'm gonna pursuewisdom, and he became a a man of
great wisdom. And the outcome ofthat, vanity. Right? It's all
dust in the wind. It's allvapor.
And then he, you know, pursuespleasure and and concubines
galore and all of that. Vanity.Right? Which, you know, if I was
one of those concubines, I'dfeel very offended. But he says,
like, none of it actuallymattered and none of it actually

(18:15):
fulfilled.
Right? None of it was good. Andwhat he comes to is, like, what
is life actually about? He says,like, eat, drink, find enjoyment
in your toil, and glorify thegod who made it all possible.
And, like, you are dust.
From dust, you came to dust, youwill return. And it's a much
more simpler form of fulfillmentthan than what the world tries

(18:38):
to tell us fulfillment comesfrom.

Ben Loy (18:40):
So, yeah, let's zone in a little bit on what you just
said, which was it's a simplerform of fulfillment than what
the world offers. Like, breakthat down a little bit more.

Alex Judd (18:49):
Yeah. I I think the world says fulfillment's around
the corner, and I thinkfulfillment is something all
these other people have that ifyou would just do these things
or if you could just get thesethings, consumerism, right, or
if you could just be thesethings, well, then fulfillment
is what you will experience.Right? It's a chase, and and,

(19:11):
you know, there are literallymessages out there that that
illustrate fulfillment as achase, and that once you get the
thing that you're chasing, well,then you'll you'll feel full.
And what we're really sayinghere is then you'll feel whole.
You'll feel complete. And thatis theologically atrocious.
Right? But so easy to fall for.Right?
I'm I'm not I'm not beyond this.Right? And that's partially

(19:33):
because the messages are soloud. But let's just think for a
second how good that message isfor marketing. Right?
I mean, this is this is yoursphere on our team, and it's
like why I think healthy growthfor marketing is a really like,
I want us to teach on thattopic. I want us to talk on that
topic. I want us to think aboutthat topic because standard
marketing oftentimes is rootedin convince people that they've

(19:56):
got this problem, that if theydon't solve this problem, they
will not be okay. And and lifecannot be good. They cannot
experience the good life untilthey get on the other side of
that problem being solved.
And for $9.99, I can hope yousaw that. And it's like, man,
you're you know, it's snake oilat that point. Right? It's like,

(20:17):
what do we have to do to befulfilled? Right?
Love God and recognize that heloves you. Love people. Right?
And do good work that you deemmeaningful because it's what he
created. And, like, that's it.
Eat, drink, enjoy the toil thatyou've been given to do on this
earth. Right? And that isfulfillment, and we make it

(20:40):
overly complex.

Ben Loy (20:42):
Yeah. I think contentment is a really
interesting conversation.

Alex Judd (20:47):
The next one too.

Ben Loy (20:48):
Yeah. Yep. Do you wanna do you wanna say this one?

Alex Judd (20:50):
Sure. I can.

Ben Loy (20:52):
Go for it.

Alex Judd (20:52):
So the next one, number four is contentment and
growth, can coexist. I'd beinterested to know what your
initial thoughts on that oneare.

Ben Loy (21:01):
I mean, I think it has everything to do with where
you're centered, which is, whatwe've already been talking
about. Are you growing for thesake of growth? And, I mean,
that's just a that's just aneither I guess depending on how
you look at it, a bottomless pitor, like, an endless ceiling,
right? Like, you'll always havethe next thing to to strive for,

(21:22):
to to go for. And and that's notto say that I think setting
goals is is bad, but I thinkthere is a certain level of
gratefulness that you you carrywhen you're you're content with
what you've been given, but alsoyou have a a vision for what
things could be.

Alex Judd (21:42):
Yeah. I have literally heard people say, I

(22:48):
just never wanna be content. Iwanna keep moving forward. I
never wanna be content. And I Ithink what they're actually
saying there is I never wanna becomplacent.

Ben Loy (22:57):
Mhmm.

Alex Judd (22:58):
And that that's a good desire. You never wanna be
complacent. But what iscomplacency? It's laziness,
lethargy, stagnancy,stultification. Right?
It's you're you're justconsuming. You're not moving
forward at all. There's nooutput. There's no productivity.
What is contentment?
It's joy, gratitude, andpresence in the present, right,

(23:23):
is what contentment is. Andthere's nothing about being
joyful, grateful, happy,satisfied in the present that
prevents you from growing intothe future. Right? People even
say, I never wanna be satisfied.And I get the sentiment, but,

(23:43):
like, why where did we get theidea that, like, we can either
be satisfied or we can begrowing, but we can't be both?
I would just say, like, why didyou ever adopt that you you
can't have both at the sametime? Like, the person that
inspired me the most in this,and and when you actually start
looking for this, it is hard tofind. Because I've reached
conversations in in coachingrelationships before where the

(24:07):
individual that I'm talking to,right, in a one on one coaching
relationship, they stumble uponthis question. They literally
ask the question, how do I growin such a way that I'm also,
like, joyful where I am andpresent where I am? And I'm
like, that's the money question.
And what I always tell them isfind someone you know that you
think is doing that. Right? Andwhat's crazy is I ask them,

(24:29):
like, do you know anyonelocally, or do you know anyone
from your past that's doing thatright now, like, that you think
has cracked the code on how todo that? And the number of
people that say, I don't know ifI know anyone. It is so hard.
It's so hard to find. Right?But, I mean, one of the people
that I think of is Mike Valentinwho, I mean, he's been one of my
greatest mentors. He he marriedAspen and I. The dude is just

(24:51):
like he's, like, one of the moreintense people I've ever met.
He's always moving forward.He's, like, always growing. I'll
never forget. Like, I I firstmet him when he was in his late
fifties. Right?
And in his late fifties, he wastelling me about a sprinter's
camp that he had just signed upfor that he was learning how to
sprint better because he wantedto get a faster 40 time. I was
like, that's pretty epic. Right?And and at the same time, he

(25:13):
it's just not like, oh, I'mdoing this sprinter camp so that
I can finally be who I'm createdto be. It's that's not it at
all.
He is, like, absurdly joyful inthe moment. Like, the when when
I used to work with him, peoplewould always, like, joke around.
It's like, he would talk to me,and and he would figure out what
I was interested in. And and,you know, at that time, it was
Ironman Triathlon, and he wouldjust grill me with questions.

(25:37):
And every time I answeranything, he'd say, fascinating.
Fascinating, Alex. This isamazing. And, like, literally,
like, I mean, the whole hallwaywould hear the conversation. And
then two hours later, I wouldhear him talking to my friend
who loved Disney World, and hewould be asking him questions
about Disney World, and he wouldbe equally enthusiastic. He
would say, fascinating.
That is amazing. Right? And it'sjust like the guy was so

(25:59):
content. He was over flowingwith joy and simultaneously
growing and moving forward. It'slike, that that's what I want.
And if we want that, we betterhave examples of it in our life.

Ben Loy (26:08):
This is related, so I'll share it. But the guy so I
took a swift water rescue courseonce, and, it was with a group
of of rescue swimmers and wewere in the middle of, like,
nowhere in Northern Californiaon the Trinity River and we're
practicing catching eddies. Andso what that is, is like when
there is an area in thetopography of a river where the

(26:31):
water is flowing forward, it'sflowing downstream, but then
there's a spot that essentiallygets backfilled because it's not
covered by the downstream, itcreates this, like, reverse
current. Oh. And it's actually,like, kind of a safe haven in
any water rescue situation or,like, if you if you're a
waterman, if you spend time onthe river kayaking and things,
like, it's a place you can pulloff to kind of rest.

Alex Judd (26:52):
And

Ben Loy (26:53):
so one of the things that we learned in this course
was to, like, pull off and catchthese eddies. And there was a
guy in that class who was samesame thing, like, endurance
athlete, like, always just feltlike he was just pumped with
endorphins and just alwayssmiling, always had a good
disposition. And we'repracticing catching these eddies
and we're staying at the edge ofthis river, and there were there

(27:15):
was one you could catch, andthen there was another one that
you could catch. And then if youdidn't catch that one, you were
just, like, downstream. And sureenough, he he tries the first
one, he doesn't make it.
Tries the second one, doesn'tmake it. And it's like, we're
just watching him get like,we're like, nobody has gone that
far down the river, like, don'tknow where he's gonna pull up.
And you just see in theCalifornia sun, like, his pearly

(27:37):
white smile just going all theway down. It's like, he doesn't
know where he's going. We don'tknow where he's going, but he's
he's just smiling.
We're having a

Alex Judd (27:44):
good We're having a good time. Yeah. I mean, and
that's what we I think becauseit would be so easy. You know, I
could see myself being theperson who's like, dad, govin, I
missed it. And then I missed itagain.
And then, like, your yourreality isn't lining up with
your expectations, and so nowyou're frustrated and upset.
And, man, I certainly go up anddown on this. But I think last

(28:05):
week, I was telling Aspenyesterday was Sunday, so I was
telling Aspen this yesterday. Iwas like, man, when I I I slept
better this past week, and Ithink one of the reasons why I
slept better is because thereare a couple things that happen
like, there's always things thathappen that are outside of
expectation or that are a bummeror that are, like, just, you
know, different than what youthought it was gonna be, things

(28:25):
like that, or even mistakes orfailures or things like that.
Right?
And there were things thathappen, and I felt like last
week, I did a good job of, like,oh, man. That's interesting that
that happened. What what is Godteaching us in this? And, like,
that was my genuine attitude.And it's like, what is God
teaching us in this?
And, like, man, so often we justdwell and beat ourselves up and

(28:46):
beat others up about thesethings that we can't actually
control. It would be better justsay that happened, like, what is
God teaching us here? And then,you know, to enjoy as we're
floating down the river, right,making figure out how to have a
big pearly white smile helpstoo. So yeah. You wanna move to
the next one?

Ben Loy (29:02):
Yeah. My work is not who I am. My work is where I
serve.

Alex Judd (29:06):
Yeah. We've talked about this at length on this
podcast since we launched thevideo channel, but I first heard
John Eldridge say this quote. II was like, man, I wanna write
that down. I wanna memorizethat. I wanna share that.
And it's one of the things thatwe share pretty regularly that I
hear repeated back to me assomething that leaders want to
continually remind themselvesof. And, really, it's just

(29:29):
there's such a gift of bringingyour whole self to what you do.
Right? And that that is such ajoy. Right?
And, you know, I would neverjust want a J O B, right, where
it's like, I'm just clocking in.I'm not at all personally
invested in this, but it paysthe bills, and I go there from
eight to five, and then I get toactually have life outside of

(29:50):
that. I would never want that.But if I'm gonna say I want to
do something different thanthat, especially if I'm gonna be
a believer, then I've gottaremember that it's like, okay.
But you cannot make your workyour life, and you certainly
cannot make your work who youare.
And that's the thing that'stempting is you say, I don't
want the j o b, so I'm gonnagive my whole self to this

(30:13):
thing. And then before you knowit, you literally gave your
whole self to that thing. Andand you are wrapped into that
thing in a way that'sinextricable, and and then we
put your face on it and yourname on it and all of that. And
you cannot distinguish betweenthe performance of the business
and your well-being. And I I'vejust seen that be such a

(30:33):
treacherous path.
It's not at all healthy growth,and so that's why I think this
is a belief we have tointernalize is your work is
where you serve, which that thatis such like a workman's
attitude. I like that. In someways, I think it's actually
really helpful. You know? Idon't just want a j o b, but I
am I you know, on my best days,I go upstairs at 8AM to this

(30:54):
room that we're sitting in rightnow, which is now our office.
I give Lily a kiss on herforehead, and I give Aspen a
kiss, and sometimes we say aprayer, and I say, okay. I'm
going to work. And then we makea joke as I walk up the stairs
that this is my commute, and,like, this is where I'm going to
serve. And then, you know,hopefully, serve for the day,
and then I close the computer atthe end of the day. And then I

(31:15):
close that door, and I walkdownstairs, and it's like, okay.
You know, that might have been areally tough day. That might
have been a really great day.Good thing. Nothing about that
day represents who I am. Now AndI get to come home and be with
people that just love me for whoI am, which is really important.

Ben Loy (31:30):
It really gives you the power to be present Yeah. In
each moment.

Alex Judd (31:33):
Yeah. Including in at at work.

Ben Loy (31:35):
Yeah. 100%.

Alex Judd (31:36):
Yeah. It's one of the things that I've recognized
about Brian and Shannon who arespeaking at our experience in
Austin coming up is it's wild. Imean, you know, objectively, if
we're just gonna put it onpaper, they are incredibly more
successful than I am, right, ifwe're putting it on paper.
They're also older than me, soI'm gonna try and catch up to
them. But, I wanna give them arun for their money.
But on paper, they're moresuccessful than I am. And what's

(31:58):
interesting is they take it lesspersonally than I do. Like,
everything, they take lesspersonally than I I do. And, you
know, I think of the way I takethings so personally as a great
strength. And in some ways, Iactually think their way of
doing things is an incrediblestrength because, what did I

(32:19):
hear someone say?
I I wrote it down yesterdaybecause it was so good. They
say, like, I don't wanna be acrystal chandelier. I wanna be a
rubber bouncy ball. Right? Thatwhen stuff happens, we just
respond, and it's not like,something happened.
My world is shattered. Right?It's like, don't be so
sensitive. Don't take it sopersonally. Just respond.
Just bounce back.

Ben Loy (32:38):
Yeah. Do you have any examples for what this has
looked like in your life when itwhen it wasn't healthy?

Alex Judd (32:44):
Yes. I paused a little bit just because I, you
know, I always want to make sureI'm not being overly raw and
transparent before I've I'vetalked through things with Aspen
and with people that I considerwise counsel. But I we had a
genuinely really goodconversation about this
yesterday, so it feelsappropriate to me to share. I,

(33:05):
in some quiet prayer andreflection time associated with
a class that you and I are in atchurch, one of the questions
associated with the prayer andreflection time that I was doing
is it said, like, what are somethings that you notice about
this season that you wanna becurious about or something like
that? And one of the things thatI realized that thank god for

(33:27):
this little speed bump.
Right? Because otherwise, Iwouldn't have have recognized
it, I don't think, and theramifications could have been
really bad is, like, man, I'mI'm, like, kind of operating
with this lingering feeling,especially with our daughter now
and and work. And, I mean, it'sincredible fruitful season at
work, which is really cool. AndI'm I still have only been
married for, you know, two yearsnow. I realized, like, I am

(33:51):
living with this lingeringfeeling of, like, I'm not doing
enough.
Like, I'm just not doing enoughin any of those arenas. And I
said, like, the thing that Iwanted to be curious about is,
like, what exactly am I definingas enough? And in that moment, I
could not answer that question.And it it spurred a really,
really good conversation withAspen and I about enough and,

(34:15):
like, what that actually meansand all of that. But, what
really was going on there andwhy it connects to this is it it
wasn't just I'm not doingenough.
It's I'm not enough. It wasactually a belief that was an
identity statement that wasabsolutely affecting the way
that I did things. Right?Whereas conversely, like, if I

(34:36):
just say, man, what what isactually enough? Well, enough is
number one, I have to believethat I am enough or, like, with
Christ for all of the areas thathe's given me to steward.
And then on top of that, what ismy role is to serve, to do my
best, to glorify God, and tolove people. And that, like,

(34:57):
that is enough. And for theareas that that's inadequate or
not enough, like, there is gracefor that. Right? But, again, I
think it was, like, really theidentity of I am not enough
getting woven into my work, mylife, and everything that took
me away from even being able toserve with a good heart in some
ways.

Ben Loy (35:15):
So this segues right into the next one that we're
talking about, right? The numbersix is my standard is
commitment, not perfection. Andso I guess in this context, that
enough was like this somewhatominous standard of perfection
that you had placed.

Alex Judd (35:31):
Dude, yeah. And I mean, you know, I'm sure people
can empathize with this. Like,we we we have a one year old
daughter. She has a very raregenetic disorder that makes her
incredibly demanding, but she isjust such a joy right now. She's
so much fun.
But she's now walking. PraiseGod for that because that's
actually not a given with thedisorder that she has. She's
walking all over the house.Right? And literally, like, her
favorite thing to do is to opendrawers and pull everything out.

(35:54):
Right? So, like, that'ssomething going on. On top of
that, like, you know, we'vewe've been in this house now for
a little bit over a year andit's like we're trying to solve
for grass in the backyard in themiddle of the desert. And grass
is like a really hard like, wetried one summer and it just
flat out didn't work. And so nowwe're trying again, and I'm
trying to solve for that.
Meanwhile, we've got a tree inour backyard that I'm trying to

(36:16):
bring back to life, and I cannotfigure out what's wrong with it.
Like, I'm trying to revive thisthing, and meanwhile, I'm
telling myself, like, I'm thehealthy growth guy, and the one
tree we have in our backyard isdying. And, like, you know,
like, we're we're often figuringout what's for dinner, like,
halfway through the day, andthere's just all these things
that it's like, I can convincemyself one day we're gonna get

(36:38):
to a spot where there's none ofthose things because we, you
know, like, the little hingethat's broken on the door is
fixed, the grass is all fullygrown, and the tree is fully
grown and healthy, and, like,everything's well. And all the
stuff that Lily pulled out thedoors is pulled up. And that's a
standard of perfection that ifI'm waiting for that day, I will
I will never find contentment,joy, gratitude.

(36:59):
Right? And, I mean, everyonelistening to this that owns or
leads in a business knows theexact same scenario exists in
your business. And it's like, wewe can't apply ourselves to a
standard of perfection to bejoyful, content, and grateful.
We cannot do that. What we haveto apply ourselves to is a
standard of commitment.
Like, I'm gonna do my best. I'mgonna own my shortfalls and move

(37:21):
forward from them, and I'm gonnakeep moving forward and get
better every single day. Like,that's the three parts to to
commitment. Right? The standardof commitment.
And, man, if you do that, that'swhat God is requesting from you.

Ben Loy (37:33):
Yeah. So how does the pursuit of commitment versus the
pursuit of perfection shape aperson?

Alex Judd (37:39):
It views everything as practice. Right? That when I
wake up in the morning, today isnot game seven of the World
Series, right, which is if I ifI don't win today, man, we're
done, and we don't get anothergame. Right? We're out.
It's today is anotheropportunity to practice, And
that practice is going to formme. Right? It's going to shape

(38:01):
me, to use your word, intosomeone that's more equipped for
the responsibilities and tasksassociated with tomorrow. And
tomorrow will be a practiceopportunity that I'm gonna go
and I'm gonna give my best, andI'm gonna make mistakes, and I'm
gonna own those mistakes andreceive grace for them, and then
I'm gonna get a little bitbetter. And that practice is
gonna make me a little bitbetter for the next day.

(38:24):
Right? And so I I just thinkit's like, I'm not quitting.
Right? And, thankfully, godwilling, there's a tomorrow, and
so I'm just gonna keep movingforward. I'm just gonna keep
chipping away, and I'm gonnakeep showing up and making
deposits in the right direction.
And just, I'm gonna trust thatthat's enough. Right? I think
that's a standard of commitment.And just adopting that mindset,

(38:46):
I think shapes and forms you.

Ben Loy (38:48):
I mean, to use the example you used earlier with
the the rubber and thechandelier, and I think even
maybe even, like, clay versus achandelier. One, like, the
standard of perfection isfragile, and it creates a system
that is fragile.

Alex Judd (39:03):
That's right.

Ben Loy (39:03):
Like, the standard of commitment means you have the
understanding that, like, lifeis long and that it takes time
to to grow and to be formed andto change. And, like, yeah, be
be clay. Be rubber. Don't be thechandelier.

Alex Judd (39:19):
Yeah. There's a a actually, I wrote his name down
for later in our outline, butI'm also gonna reference him at
our long game leadership talk inin Austin coming up. Founder of
Patagonia, he he refers tohimself as a reluctant business
owner.

Ben Loy (39:35):
Yeah. That sounds about right.

Alex Judd (39:36):
Yeah. His name is Yvonne Chanard is his name. And
he says, yeah, his book, whichis brilliant, is Let My People
Go Surfing is what is what istitled. And, like, the way they
run work, this is, like, hisversion of freedom and
responsibility. It's like, theseare our work hours, but if the
waves are good, you shouldalways leave.
It's like incredible. Very cool.And so they did growth for the

(39:58):
sake of growth for a while. It'spart of the story of Patagonia.
And because of some inventorythings and some quality things,
they were moving at a pace thatthey couldn't guard quality.
They were way over indexed oninventory. They were way over
leveraged, and it almost tankedthe company. It almost tanked
the mission of Patagonia. And hesaid they had a a very firm line
in the sand moment where theybasically said, we are going

(40:21):
from now on, we are going wewill not do this anymore. We are
going to build this company insuch a way that it will be
around in a hundred years.
And so instead of prioritizingour quarterly numbers or our
next sales goal or just beatingwhat we did last month, we are
going to operate as though weare going to be around in a
hundred years. And that that'swhat we're aiming for. And

(40:42):
that's expanding your timehorizon is what that is. And
what's crazy is the minute youstart thinking about building a
hundred year company, it's thisparadox that happens, is number
one, you realize today doesn'treally matter. Like, in the
context of the history of thishundred year company, today
doesn't really matter.

(41:02):
Right? This is one of so manythousands of days, and today
doesn't really matter. But thenin the context of a hundred year
company, today really matters.Like, if we can't do today
right, why do we even get theright to think about a 100? And
I think it's living with thatparadox and understanding the
wisdom associated with thatparadox.
If life is long, life is short.Right? This matters. This

(41:24):
doesn't really matter. Thatthat's where we start to find
these rhythms of health andgrace and growth and forward
motion that are actually reallywise.
Man, that perspective is justhow it's

Ben Loy (41:36):
like having it's just a having a right view of yourself,
like, right perspective ofyourself. Like, I mean, we're
believers, right, based on whatScripture tells us, like, is
significance to life andsignificance to our lives. And
then at the same time, like, Godis outside time and space and,
like, He we are we are oneindividual in this vast spans of

(41:59):
creation that He has He has madeand, like, having the humility
to see and understand as muchand as big as that gets, and
also at the same time, theintentionality to understand
that at the same time, like, Godhas designed you with
significance, and God hasdesigned your day with
significance. Mhmm. That'sreally interesting.

Alex Judd (42:18):
I think it's Jerry Seinfeld. I I'm not positive,
but this will be the first timewe've talked about Jerry
Seinfeld on this podcast, sothat's fun. We should do that
one. It's so good to but I thinkit was, I think it was him,
which I I don't think he's abeliever. So I I would actually
wanna ask him questions aboutthis if I ever got the chance.
Jerry, if you're listening, we'dlove to have you. But he he has

(42:43):
a sheet of paper printed with apicture from the Hubble Space
Telescope. I believe it's fromthe Hubble, on it, and he
explains the picture. And youbasically see all these what
looks like stars. Right?
And you're like, oh, wow. That'sso beautiful, all the stars. And
if you actually understand whatthe picture is of, he says,
like, every single one of those,like, glowing dots that you see

(43:06):
is a galaxy that is comparableto the size of the Milky Way
galaxy that our solar systemresides in. Like, it's not even
just our solar system. It's oursolar system resides in a
galaxy, and every single one ofthese dots is one of those
galaxies.
And it's like, that exists rightnow. Like, the universe is so
huge. And it's like, the thingthat I admire about Jerry is,
like, he's looking at that justto remember, like, this, like,

(43:29):
stand up comedy thing that I'mdoing tonight, like, I'm nervous
about this joke and if peopleare gonna laugh tonight or not,
like, it does not matter. Like,this thing is huge. Right?
But at the same time, he treatshis stand up comedy like a
professional. He treats it soseriously. And I just think
there's so that's such a coolinterplay that I think we're all
called to, and I think thatthat's part of healthy growth.

Ben Loy (43:51):
So I'm gonna call an audible, and we have two more
here.

Alex Judd (43:55):
Okay.

Ben Loy (43:55):
But I think I think our conversation right now feeds
really well into the lastprinciple we have, which is I'm
not gonna see this finished. Andoriginally when I read this, I
was like, well, that's kind of adepressing thought.

Alex Judd (44:10):
You know? I agree. Yeah.

Ben Loy (44:12):
And kinda and and the way I read it was like, oh,
like, this is like, this seems alittle negative. But I I guess
once we had talked about it, waslike, I understand the
perspective that you're comingfrom now, and I agree. So would
you elaborate on that a littlebit?

Alex Judd (44:26):
Yeah. Well, I guess we should define what is
finished. And if finished iswhole and complete, then the
beautiful thing is is this thistruth is a lie if you're a
believer. Right? Because ifyou're a believer, then you know
this side of heaven, I will notsee this finished.

(44:46):
But heaven is wholeness. It'sgod's kingdom invading the earth
and all things being full andcomplete. Right? There's a great
book, by Mike Goheen, who liveshere in Arizona, called the
drama of scripture, and he justasserts that the bible is the
true story of the entireuniverse. And within that true
story, there's four movements.

(45:08):
Right? Creation, fall,redemption, and then
restoration. And theologianscall this unique time period
that we live in called thealready but not yet. Meaning,
redemption has occurred. Sin hasbeen defeated.
God's kingdom is activelyinvading the earth, but it has

(45:28):
not fully invaded the earth isthe thing that we have to
remember. And until that doesinvade the earth, which is what
we are honestly hoping for,praying for, and we want to see
that come to pass, we live inthe already, but not yet. Right?
Like, we we do not get to seethe totality of what's coming to
pass. We hold on to the hopethat we will, but I think that

(45:50):
this is helpful and should notbe depressing more than anything
because it just sets ourexpectations.
Is this side of heaven, there isno there. Right? And this is
where I am as much of a suckerfor the race or the mountain or
the ladder analogy as anyoneelse. I love those analogies and
those metaphors. Eventually, themetaphor breaks down because at

(46:13):
this side of heaven, there is nothere.
And if you're expecting there tobe a there where you're like,
finally, everything in my lifeis exactly as it should be
because I individually andpersonally made it that way,
you're gonna be incrediblydissatisfied, and you're you you
are by nature engaging inunhealthy growth because you're

(46:33):
setting yourself up withunrealistic expectations. I
think what you're longing forthere is a hole that only heaven
can fill. And in the meantime,you say, man, I'm gonna walk
with God not in peacetime, butin wartime, and I'm gonna play
my part in that wartimementality is what I would say.
So that hopefully, that's notheretical. And hopefully, that

(46:55):
reframes the way you originallywere.

Ben Loy (46:57):
No. I think you're good. Yeah.

Alex Judd (46:58):
Yeah. Yeah. Anything you'd add to that?

Ben Loy (47:00):
I think before the we hit record, you were talking
about Moses. Mhmm. And I thoughtthat that was a really it's just
a really compelling example ofthat. Especially since, I mean,
he yeah, he he led theIsraelites through the desert
all the way up to the promisedland and from a mountain, like,
saw it, but never he he neverstepped foot in it.

Alex Judd (47:21):
Yeah. Isn't that crazy? God took him up to the
top of the mountain and said,look at the promised land.

Ben Loy (47:25):
Mhmm.

Alex Judd (47:25):
And then he said, you're not gonna see that.
You're gonna die.

Ben Loy (47:27):
Yeah. Yep. Rough. Which, you know, from a kingdom
mentality, it's like, well,would I rather would I rather go
walk in the promised land or orgo spend eternity with with the
Lord? Sure.
It's like, alright, I'll takeThe old man. I'll take the Lord

Alex Judd (47:40):
Yeah.

Ben Loy (47:41):
You know, 10 times out of 10.

Alex Judd (47:42):
And and what a gracious gift of God too that,
like, God probably knew what isone of the things that Moses is
most concerned about. Well, it'slike the the sustainability of
the movement that he was a partof creating. Right? Like, the
seeing the Jewish people stepinto the thing that he led them
towards, and God did show himthat, like, which is so cool.

(48:03):
And then, I mean, there's so, innumbers in Deuteronomy, I think,
like, Moses does such abrilliant job of executing
intentional succession.
Like, the way he hands off,authority to Joshua so that
Joshua can be the one to leadthem into the promised land, and
that's, like, the thecontinuation of healthy growth

(48:23):
into a topic about succession islike, you're not gonna be see
this finished, but if you dothis right, you will see it
continued. And you or one ofyour responsibilities if you've
been given something by God isto either see it end well or to
see it continued. One of thosetwo things. And and Moses is a
great example of seeingsomething continued well, I

(48:44):
think.

Ben Loy (48:45):
Yeah. So we'll we'll move on to the last one. God's
promises are not found outsideof God's boundaries.

Alex Judd (48:51):
Yeah. I mean, we could use a a biblical example
here too. Like, Abraham is told,you're gonna be the father of
many nations, and he latches onto that, and his wife latches on
to that too. But then it's nothappening, and they're they're
pretty old. Right?
And they're like, you know, whenare we gonna have this son that
you've promised us? And so theytake matters into their own

(49:13):
hands, and they say, we aregoing to have a son, but we're
gonna have this son by anotherwoman, which is they but what's
interesting is they they arestill expecting the blessing of
God, but they've left theboundaries of God. God said one
man and one woman will be joinedtogether, and they shall be one
flesh, they shall not departfrom it. Right? Is what God
said.

(49:34):
And meanwhile, it's like they'recompletely ignoring that part,
and they're still expecting theblessing to come to pass.
They're like, oh, we're gonnabasically jerry rig this thing.
And it doesn't happen that way.Right? It still the the blessing
still happens and the promisestill happens, but it's within
God's boundaries that it occurs.
And it's miraculous how itoccurs, but it is within the

(49:54):
boundaries. Here's why I thinkthis applies to leaders and why
it applies to this conversationis so often we say, man, God, I
I want you to grow and andprosper my business. And in the
process of us working, becausewe know that we're participants
in that, and the process of usworking to see God grow and
prosper the business that we ownor lead, maybe our marriage is

(50:16):
suffering, maybe, we're lettingour health being our sleep or
our eating habits, we're notdrinking enough water. Right?
Like, your body is the temple ofthe holy spirit.
We've completely abandoned thatthing that god's given us to
steward. Maybe we don't have a acommunity of fellow believers.
Maybe we we don't have anyrhythm with connecting with or
worshiping god through prayerand corporate worship and study

(50:38):
of scripture. So maybe we're notdoing any of those things, but
we're saying, God, will youprosper and grow my business?
And it's like you're askingyou're doing what Abraham did.
You're you're asking for thepromise of God's outside of
god's boundaries. Like, you leftgod's boundaries a long time
ago. And what's interesting is,like, you might still experience

(50:58):
business growth. Your businessmight still prosper. I would
even say, like, it probably willbecause you're giving it so much
single-minded attention.
Here's what I've seen to betrue, though. You will not
experience it as blessing. Itmay grow and it may prosper, but
you will not experience it asblessing because God's
boundaries are are given to usnot to hinder our experience of

(51:19):
life, but to actually promoteour experience of abundant life.
And so therefore, we shouldn'tleave the boundaries. That's
like I mean, it's literally likea football player snapping the
ball and then running outsidethe boundary markers, leaving
the stadium, going around thestadium, coming through the
other entrance, and runningthrough the back of the end zone

(51:40):
and saying touchdown.
It doesn't work that way. You'vegot to operate within the
boundaries of the game, andthat's when you're going to
experience true victory.

Ben Loy (51:48):
I read and reread the celebration of discipline by
Richard Foster Yeah. Reallypretty much every year and
slowly. But, I was reading theprayer chapter recently, and he
talks about using hisimagination or use the use of
imagination during prayer. Andalways just like a really
compelling and and thoughtprovoking thing to read. But one
of the examples he uses wasactually he talks about him

(52:11):
praying for for, like,sexuality, and he he mentions,
like, a river and how, like, sexis something God designed with
with boundaries, like, somethingsomething good and it is meant
to it is an ecosystem that ismeant to promote life and
flourishing.
And, I mean, you could just themetaphors and the ways in which
water and rivers are bring lifeis I mean, you could you just

(52:36):
would limitless. Like, you'rejust gonna run But he talks
about how, like, when when thatriver we've just experienced a
lot of rain in Arizona, so thisis really relevant.

Alex Judd (52:45):
It literally never happens. Yeah. When that river

Ben Loy (52:47):
grows outside of its boundaries, right, outside of
the banks in which it wascreated to be in, it it's it
wreaks havoc and it'sdestruction and there's death
and that yeah. That idea of,like, within the boundaries that
that this was created and thatthis is meant to be, it is a
beautiful thing that brings lifeand joy and fulfillment and

(53:07):
flourishing. But, like, whenthat breaches beyond the way
that it was designed, it's it'sgonna cause chaos.

Alex Judd (53:15):
Yeah. And what's I mean, you know, it's a probably
a good exercise for all of us tosay, you know, physically very
evident how that applies to sex,applies to money, applies to
leadership, applies to marriage,applies to kids, applies to
personal growth, all of it. Andit's, like, probably a really
good exercise to ask, like,what's the river? Like, what are
the banks that god gave me forthis thing? And, like, am I

(53:36):
operating within those banks, oram I overflowing beyond those
banks?
So I Ben, I love thatillustration. That's so good.

Ben Loy (53:42):
Yeah. Really powerful. Alright. Was there anything else
that you wanted to say on thistopic?

Alex Judd (53:47):
I would just say that things change for me in our
business when I adopted a senseof resolve around healthy
growth. Because you you I mean,quite frankly, you're probably
gonna stick out like a sorethumb. Mhmm. And because it's
very countercultural, you'regonna be doing things that are
different to such they're sodifferent sometimes that you're
like, is this even right? Like,should I be doing this?

(54:10):
And so you really have to have asense of resolve around, I'm
going to grow this in a waythat's healthy, and you have to
under like, have a vision forwhat that looks like and then
get around people that valuethat as much as you do. Because
in isolation, healthy growthnever occurs in isolation. I
actually believe that. So getaround other people that value
that, that are pursuing that,that want that. No one's gonna

(54:31):
be perfect at it, but findpeople that are committed to
that because number one, you'regonna find people that are a
couple steps ahead of you, butthen number two, you're you're
gonna be reinforced in thejourney because it's definitely
a journey.
It's not a destination.

Ben Loy (54:45):
Well, thank you. Thanks, Ben.

Alex Judd (54:48):
Well, there you have it. Thanks so much for joining
us for this episode. If you wantany of the information or
resources that we mentioned,that's all in the show notes.
Hey. Before you go, could I askyou for one quick favor?
Could you subscribe, rate, andreview this podcast episode?
Your feedback is what helps ourteam engage in a sequence of

(55:08):
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Also, you leaving a positivereview is what helps us connect
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Are you a leader that wants togrow your business in a healthy

(55:29):
way, serve people exceptionallywell, and glorify God in the
process. Go to pathforgrowth.comto get more information about
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(55:51):
community. Y'all the people thatmake this podcast possible.
Y'all know this.
We're rooting for you. We'repraying for you. We wanna see
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Our strength is for service.Let's go. Let's go. Let's go.

Ben Loy (56:12):
Hey.