Deliver Messages that Matter: How to Improve Your Communication - Part 1

No matter who you are or what you do, growing your communication skills will benefit your life. In this episode, Alex and Ben explain why communication matters and how you can start getting better at it. They break down 2 of 7 actions to improve your communication, along with some foundational principles to keep in mind. Make sure to follow the podcast so you don’t miss part 2 of this episode! 

Information isn’t the gap between failure and success—action is. Path for Growth’s 1-on-1 coaching helps you create a plan and execute on what matters most for your business. Apply today at pathforgrowth.com/coaching.

Episode Recap:

• When did you realize communication was important to you? 
• You can learn a lot when you pay attention to how someone delivers their message
• Growing as a communicator can benefit every one of us 
• Key principles for strong communication 
• If you want to grow as a communicator, focus on these 7 actions
• 1. Remember who it’s for 
• 2. Understand the standards of effective communication:
• Good communication is CLEAR
• Good communication is CONFIDENT
• Good communication is CONCISE
• Good communication is ENERGETIC
• Good communication is EFFECTIVE 
• Check back next week for part 2 of this conversation! 

If you’re ready to move beyond just gathering information and start executing on what truly matters, Path for Growth’s 1-on-1 coaching can help. Apply now at pathforgrowth.com/coaching.

Resources:

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Episode Transcript

Ben Loy (00:02):
When did you first realize that public speaking was
something that you wanted to do?

Alex Judd (00:06):
Yeah. I don't know that I thought of it as public
speaking at the time, but myfirst memory that this kind of
came on my radar that I I mean,I vividly remember this, and my
mom remembers it too. I was insecond grade, and, she was
folding laundry, and I was justsitting in, in their room on the
bed just kind of chatting.Right? And, I remember she was

(00:30):
folding laundry just kind of outof nowhere.
We weren't even talking aboutthis. Said, You know, mom, when
I grow up, I don't think I wantto be a motivational speaker,
but I would like to be amotivational teacher one day.
And then she just kind of lookedup from the lawyer and was like,
what? Like, what? Like, wheredid that come from?
And I think she said, go playoutside. She has since told me

(00:52):
she's like, her frame ofreference for motivational
speakers is that at that timewas like, you had to have your
arm bitten off by a shark ifyou're gonna so she was like,
what is gonna happen this kid?Oh my gosh. But I I think that
literally was the beginning.That's not to say I had like
this a to z plan, but it was Imean, the topic of
communication, I can genuinelysay, like, was on my mind at

(01:14):
that time and has been on mymind is something that I paid,
like, really, really deepattention to ever since.

Ben Loy (01:20):
That's it's so funny to me that that at that age, you
were able to delineate adifference between, like,
talking and communicating.

Alex Judd (01:29):
Yeah. Well, I I think it's a God thing, right? Like, I
I mean, and I think there's allof us can say this. This isn't
unique to me, that there isevidence of what we are maybe
called to do or gifted to do inour childhood. And thankfully
for me, that was something thatI vividly remember and held on
to.
But then, you know, that wasn'tthe only time. I remember in
elementary school sitting backand, like, my history teacher

(01:53):
teaching a lesson to us inelementary school and me sitting
back and literally just thinkingto myself, I could communicate
this better than they are rightnow, and here's what I would do
differently. And, like, veryprideful very prideful thought
to have as a fourth grader, but,but again just highlights the
fact that like, man, there arecertain things that God has
given us that it's like wedidn't even necessarily have to

(02:15):
work to become passionate about,we were already passionate about
it. And then what's so cool iswhen you pair when you pair that
passion with hard work, which I,you know, I would like to say
that I've done, I've beenstudying this, working on this,
developing as a communicator fora very long time now, well then
that's where you start to reallyexperience growth, I think.

Ben Loy (02:32):
Yeah. Did you ever take that for granted?

Alex Judd (02:35):
Oh, man. I think I I still take it for granted in
some ways. Like, gosh, foragain, for a very, very long
time, anytime I hear someonespeak in any context, I am I
simultaneously listen to themessage that they're given
giving, and then I also listento the way that they're giving

(02:55):
the message. And truly, I havenotebooks where the left side of
the notebook is dedicated to theway they give the message and
the right side of the notebookis given to the message that
they've given. Right?
And so, I mean, I have heard alot of people speak, and every
single time I listen to someonespeak, that's how I listen,
right? Is with those two,whether it's physically or
mentally. It's always how arethey giving the message and then

(03:17):
what's the message that they'regiving. Sometimes I get I
actually pay way more attentionto how they're giving the
message and that can actually benot a good thing. But as a
result, do I take it forgranted?
A lot of times if I'm notcareful, you know, as a business
leader now, I'll delegatecommunicating something to
someone else. I'll just be like,oh, just give a thirty minute
speech. No big deal. Like, knockyourself out. And, then you see

(03:40):
their face and it's like, oh mygosh, this sounds awful.
Like, so I think what I oftentake for granted is number one,
not everyone thinks about thisand that that's the way it is.
You know, this is not meboasting. That's the way it is
with everyone in their gifting.You you didn't have to get
trained on it because you weregifted in it.

Ben Loy (03:56):
Yeah.

Alex Judd (03:56):
And so you take for granted that that something that
came naturally to you might haveto get trained to others. But
then the other thing I take forgranted is that I I still learn
is not everyone enjoys it. I,like, I legitimately, like, I
think it might be one of myfavorite things to do on the
planet is to take a subject tocreate a message that is aimed

(04:18):
at engaging an audience aroundthat subject and teaching it to
them so that they grow and thendelivering that message. I love
every facet of that from startto to even pass the finish of
it. And it doesn't matter ifit's four people, which I've
done, or 4,000 people, whichI've also done.
I I just love the activity ofit. And it turns out not

(04:41):
everyone feels that way, but Ithink it's Jerry Seinfeld that,
he makes the joke. He says, youknow, the data literally says
that most people are more afraidof public speaking than of
death. And so and what he saysis he says, so if you're at a
funeral, you would rather be theone in the casket than the one
giving the eulogy. You see whatthat means?
It's like it's wild that itterrifies people, but I've I've

(05:05):
honestly always loved it.

Ben Loy (05:06):
Yeah. You talked about taking notes on the talk and
then taking notes on the waythat they're communicating. I
mean, we I've shared with yourecently, I was preparing to
give a talk for probably thefirst time in I don't know how
long, since I was involved inToastmasters as a kid, I think,
genuinely. Yeah. And and one ofthe things that I did was, like,
I'm gonna listen to acommunicator that I really

(05:27):
appreciate and just listen like,not even really listen to their
message, just listen to the waythey were communicating.
And that's probably the firsttime in my life I've I've ever
done that. Really? Okay. So talk

Alex Judd (05:37):
to Who did you listen to and what was that experience
like? Like, what did you pullfrom it?

Ben Loy (05:42):
Yeah. Well, it was it was Matt Chandler.

Alex Judd (05:44):
Okay.

Ben Loy (05:44):
And, and I think some of the things I pulled from it
was, like, especially from hisintro, just the way he would,
segue from a story or anillustration, and then he would
establish a truth, and then hewould, like, state that truth.
And then from there, the rest ofhis talk or his sermon was an

(06:06):
explanation or defense of thattruth that he stated. And, I
mean, that's not the only way tocommunicate, but it was like,
here's a guy that I appreciateas a communicator that I listen
to a lot and who has, throughhis communication, served me
really well. But now I'm lookingat it from a lens of of who
like, how is he communicating,right, versus just listening to

(06:29):
the message that he's sharing.

Alex Judd (06:30):
Yeah. I think that's so good. And I and, I mean,
that's gonna be one of thepractices. So we're gonna talk
about seven actions today. Yep.
And that's directly related toto one of the actions that we're
gonna talk. But I mean, like, ifif we're talking high level just
at the beginning of thisconversation, I am just so
deeply convinced. And I ambiased, but just because I'm
biased doesn't mean I'm wrong.Right? I'm so deeply convinced

(06:51):
that it would benefit everyone.
And I am I am saying the wordeveryone literally. It would
benefit everyone to grow as acommunicator.

Ben Loy (07:00):
Yeah. I I mean, I agree. And I've shared this with
you this year. This is this issomething I identified as an
area I would personally like togrow, so I'm excited to to dive
into this a little bit more.

Alex Judd (07:11):
The other thing that's so cool about the topic
of communication growth is it'sit's not all that dissimilar,
from why I love running, andthat I love running because it's
immediately accessible toeveryone. Right? All you need is
a pair of shoes and there's awhole community of people that
would argue you don't even needthat. Right? Like to go for a
run and you can get better atrunning.

(07:32):
Communication is the same thing.It's not you don't have to go
buy a bunch of stuff. You don'tyou don't have to go, you know,
get a speaking gig to practiceas a communicator. Everything
we're gonna talk about today,like you can literally start
practicing today. And what's soneat about communication too is
you don't even have to carve outadditional time to practice if

(07:53):
you just bring moreintentionality to the thing
you're already doing.
Many of us are talking already.What if we started to say, how
do I actually communicate this?Well then, man, if you have that
many opportunities for reps andpractice and you apply your
intent to it, you're gonna grow.And so I just see a lot of times
the minute people decide theywant to grow as a communicator,
they get on this path that it'sactually really cool to see how

(08:15):
fast you can improve. Yeah.

Ben Loy (08:17):
So let's jump in here. What are things to consider or
keep in mind, as far as, like,if you want to grow as a
communicator?

Alex Judd (08:24):
Yeah. So I would highlight three principles that,
you know, I would just wanteveryone to have at the
forefront in their mind as wejump into this seven actions. So
these principles reallyrepresent truths that are why
it's helpful to grow as acommunicator. Number one,
there's a difference betweentalking and communicating. And I

(08:44):
actually probably don't need toelaborate on that.
People understand, and andcommunication has intent
embedded into it. Right? I I'veheard it say before that a good
teacher takes the complex andmake it makes it simple.
Sometimes an educator takes thesimple and makes it incredibly
complex. Right?
So we wanna be great teachers.We wanna be simplifiers of

(09:06):
things in service of otherpeople, and that's a difference
between talking andcommunicating. Number two,
communication is a kingpinskill. What I mean by that is,
you know, it's a bowlinganalogy, obviously. So so if you
go bowling, I don't often dothis, but what do you want to
do?
You want to hit the kingpin.Why? Because that front pin is
the one that if you knock itover, it knocks everything else

(09:28):
over. I deeply believe thisbecause I've seen it play out
true in my life, and I've seenit play out true in so many
leaders' lives that we work witharound the country. If you grow
in communication, so many otherthings become available to you.
Because we live in a world thatrequires you to communicate. And
the minute you grow as acommunicator, you unlock

(09:50):
opportunities for learning, forgrowth, connection, for
partnership. Everything gets alittle bit easier and a little
bit more effective the minuteyou decide to grow as a
communicator. So it's a kingpinskill. And then the final thing
that I just want people toremember, and then if you've got
any questions you'd like tofollow-up on these principles,
is that communication iscomplex.

(10:12):
So we have a diagram and a teamtraining that we do on this
topic, but I'll just see if Ican describe it. So think about
what communication is. There's amessage that I have in my brain
that I intend to send. Thenthere's the words that I choose
to use to send that message, andthat message gets sent. Now I

(10:36):
oftentimes even struggle withthat jump, right?
The message in my brain. Yeah,that's right. The message in my
brain to the words that I use.Right? But then there's the
message that you receive andthen the message you receive,
the message you interpret, andthen the message you intend to
send, and then there's the wordsyou speak.
And that what we just describedright there, like seven steps is

(10:59):
one part of a conversation.Absurd. It is so complex. Right?
And and every single one ofthose junctures is an
opportunity for absurdbreakdown.
I see that, and I'm like, I amjust grateful that anything ever
works ever. Right? That I mean,we should really be grateful to
God because I think it is amiracle. Right? And so
communication is complex.

(11:20):
You taking ideas from your headand transferring them into the
minds of other people so thatthey can act on them is an
incredibly complex activity. Andthat's why what we're gonna
focus on in these seven actions,you don't counter complexity
with complexity. You countercomplexity with simplicity. And
so much what what we're gonna betalking about in these seven
actions is is hopefully going tohelp you simplify your

(11:43):
communication so that it can beused not to confuse people, but
rather to serve people.

Ben Loy (13:29):
We were in our leadership incubator a couple
weeks ago or last week, andtotally unrelated conversation,
but one of the examples that wasused was it involved the idea of
establishing rhythms and andprotocols around snow removal in
the city of Minneapolis versusSaint Paul. Yeah. And we were

(13:49):
discussing the differentapproaches that they took. And I
think one of the things thatjust came to mind in the moment
when I was talking about it was,like, weather is such an
unpredictable thing andsomething that we cannot
control. And so it reallyrequires, like, structure and
predictability in the way thatwe approach the response to it.

(14:10):
And I think communication couldbe somewhat similar. It's like
we can't always control exactlyhow someone is going to, like,
receive the message that you'resharing. But if if we if we
establish some principles tofollow and we're well practiced
and and have created anenvironment where there's some
level of structure, that becomeseasier.

Alex Judd (14:32):
That's right. Yeah. We're talking about
intentionality. We're talkingabout simplicity. I especially
if we're talking about leading abusiness, I'm trying to think if
I've ever met a leader that waseffective that wasn't an
effective communicator.
I I don't think that I have, andI also don't think that that's a
coincidence. I think that it'sone of those things you have to

(14:54):
be effective at to to lead well.And I also think that the lid on
your leadership will be the lidof your effectiveness as a
communicator. So so, like, youknow, if you are hitting a
ceiling as a communicator, yourleadership is also going to hit
that ceiling eventually. PraiseGod, we can grow is what I
would, you know, hope everyonecan keep in mind.

(15:17):
The other thing that I would,you know, encourage people to
remember is communicator is notan identity. Right? You never go
to the hospital and they sayit's a boy, it's a girl. Oh my
gosh, you had a communicator.Right?
Like, no. Right. And so it's askill that can be learned and
developed. Certainly, are peoplethat are more predisposed to be
good at it and enjoy it. But Ihave seen people that are

(15:39):
literally terrified at it anddon't think they're good at it
grow to I mean, like legit givetalks for a living.
I have I have I know thesepeople. And so that has just
instilled in me a great deal ofconfidence that anyone can grow
in this. They just have todecide that they want to.

Ben Loy (15:55):
Cool. Well, let's jump in.

Alex Judd (15:57):
Yeah. Okay. So we got seven actions, and and these are
really practical things you cando to grow as a communicator.
And I would say these apply tocommunication to groups. Right?
So groups could be, you know,your four person leadership
team. It could be your 400person company. It could be your
networking group that you'repart of. But then I also would
say this is also really, reallygreat practical tools for

(16:21):
communicating to audience. Sothat's that's more public
speaking.
Right? And so action number oneis remember who it's for. And
the reason why I wanted to starthere is because we already we
already said this. Right? Whatkeeps most people sidelined,
from growing as a communicator,I would say nerves.

(16:42):
Right? It freaks them out. Andthe reason why that when I talk
to people that are freaked outby the idea of public speaking,
the reason that I often see isreally driving that fear is they
are very, very concerned withwhat are people are gonna think
about me. Mhmm. How are peoplegonna perceive me?

(17:04):
What are people gonna thinkabout me? What what if I make a
fool of myself? What if I whatif I'm not good at it? Right?
It's all me, myself, and I,which, you know, we would call
it fear and nervousness, whichcan look humble.
In reality, you have taken theentire subject of communication,
which in itself is designed tobe service, and you've made it
about yourself. And so rememberwho it's for is just this

(17:27):
reorientation of our mind andattitude of saying, this is for
them. This isn't for me. Soalthough those questions might
be interesting, they'reirrelevant because, really, this
is how am I going to serve them?And what I found is the minute
people start to remember whoit's actually for, their nerves
actually go down.

Ben Loy (17:47):
Yeah. It is it's funny how pride there's, like, two
sides to the same coin withpride. It can either look, oh,
this person wants to get up infront of thousands of people and
make themselves look, like, youknow, otherworldly and heroic or
Yes. Or like, you know, bragabout themselves. But there is
another side of like, if ifyou're so terrified of, of

(18:09):
standing in front of people inthat way because you've you're
just constantly thinking aboutyourself and, oh, yeah, like,
what do they think of me?
I don't wanna look like anidiot. I don't wanna you know,
it's that's still pride. It'sstill an overemphasis on, like,
your identity and and who youare and and honestly, like, what
people probably are gonna thinkor even remember about you.

Alex Judd (18:31):
Yeah. That's right. That's right. And I mean, I I
love that you called attentionto the other side of that too is
it is in your best interest togo into any message, any talk,
any meeting where you'resupposed to communicate, and
maybe you're the per this is me.I I would say this.
Maybe you are the person that'smore of a performer by nature,
and you you make it aboutyourself, but that makes it into

(18:53):
this performance that drawsattention to you that puts the
spotlight on you. If if that'smore your wiring, then you would
also benefit from rememberingwho it's for. Because I I know
this to be true. I've learnedthis the hard way sometimes.
But, man, people people cansniff out a prideful, boastful,

(19:13):
arrogant communicator from amile away these days.
What we are very practiced atunderstanding who those people
are. And the minute you startjust telling all these stories
that make yourself look like thehero and you're not looking to
serve people, you're looking toimpress people, and you're just
hoping, you know, you're justkind of waiting for people's
feedback. Like, that's thereason why you're doing it.

(19:33):
People can sniff that out from amile away, and they won't trust
it. And because they don't trustit, they won't follow it.
And so it benefits both sides ofthat spectrum to really
internalize before we evercommunicate, hey, who is this
for? It I would add to that it'sone of the reasons why you and I
pray anytime we do a podcastepisode. For me personally at
least, it's like, God help me toremember why we're actually

(19:56):
doing this. Yeah. You know, it'snot it's not Alex Judd's story
time where I get to look likethis here.
That's not the goal at all. It'slike to actually serve and help
people. And if that's thevision, the strategy looks way
different.

Ben Loy (20:07):
Yeah. And for me, the prayer is make the connection
between my brain and my mouthwork.

Alex Judd (20:13):
Very good. Very good. Both are valid prayers.

Ben Loy (20:17):
Yeah. What's, what's number two?

Alex Judd (20:20):
Okay. So so number one is remember who it's for.
Number two is actually a wholelesson that I I created years
ago called understand thestandards of effective
communication. This again Idon't know if I've shared this
story. This is a god thingbecause this is still the base
level fundamental communicationframework that I reference for

(20:43):
myself today as a communicatorthat that it's the first thing I
reference whenever I teachcommunicators.
And I've been teaching this fora very long time now. And the
way that this came about was init would have been 2012. I was
an intern for a church. I was aa incoming junior in college,
and I was an intern at a church,and we were at beach week. And

(21:07):
the pastor had told me, hey.
During this lunch at beach week,you're gonna take a group of 40
high school students, and I wantyou to teach them something in
the middle of the day so they'reout of the heat. And that's your
time, you use it how you seefit. And naturally, as an
incoming junior in college, Iwaited till the hour before that

(21:27):
was about to happen to createthat lesson. Right? Which that's
not a recommendation forcommunication.
But I man, to this day, I can'teven remember, like, how this
came about. But I was walking onthe beach getting ready for this
and you know, I was excitedabout it because I loved
communication. And I and I was,honored to be asked to do this.

(21:48):
And I was just thinking aboutwhat would be most helpful. And
I just said, well, what iseffective communication?
And I was walking on the beach,and literally, what came to mind
as I was on the beach that dayis clear, confident, concise,
energetic, and effective. Right?That was what I thought of. And
then I proceeded to give, youknow, an hour lesson on those
five topics about an hour later.And it went like really, really,

(22:11):
really well.
It was crazy. At one point, Iwas sitting on a table and the
table collapsed, but I jumped upfast enough and it was like this
unbelievable moment. I was like,wow. That I I don't know if I I
could do that again if I tried.Like, but all that to say, it
went really, really well.
And literally, this framework issince then, every message that I
give, I run it through thefilter of these five qualities.

(22:31):
Anytime I evaluate someone'smessage, you know, to help them
grow as a communicator, I'musing these five qualities. And
really, there's not magic tothese five qualities. It's just
a reminder, a simple reminder ofwhat effective communication
actually is. And so before wekind of break each one down,
anything else you'd add to thator any questions you have on
that?

Ben Loy (22:51):
No. I mean, I I guess I would just reiterate that you
practice what you preach. Wewere talking about this on a
hike when we were talking abouta talk I was doing Yeah. Last
week, and it was really helpfulfor me to look at what I was
trying to say through this lens.So I'm I'm excited to dive into
this a little more.

Alex Judd (23:10):
And really what these represent is not dissimilar from
what we talk about in ouroperationalized content. These
represent standards. Mhmm.Because if you ask someone, hey,
can you evaluate mycommunication? You're like,
well, compared to what orthrough what lens?
Right? The minute you use thesefive words, hey, can you tell me
red, yellow, green, how was I inthese five areas? It becomes so

(23:31):
easy to grow, to improve, andthen you can actually front load
that and read your messagebeforehand or practice your
message beforehand and keepthese standards in mind, which
is really helpful. So can I walkthrough one at a time maybe?

Ben Loy (23:45):
Sure. Yeah. I was gonna ask you, like, as far as clear
goes, which is the first one

Alex Judd (23:50):
Yeah.

Ben Loy (23:50):
Where does clarity start in the process of of being
a communicator, preparing tocommunicate? Are you looking at
obviously, like the end resultwould be what they're sharing

Alex Judd (24:00):
Mhmm.

Ben Loy (24:00):
But how can you make sure that you're going to be
clear going into something likethat?

Alex Judd (24:04):
Yeah. We we already hit on some of this. Understand
your motive for communicatingbecause that's gonna drive what
you say, and then understandwhat you're actually trying to
communicate. And we'll get moreinto that in point three, but a
lot of times people don'tcommunicate clearly because they
don't actually know what they'retrying to say. So clarity of
intent and clarity of message iskey.
That's why we have a wholeaction dedicated to that topic.

(24:27):
But then the other thing that Ireally wanna focus on with
clarity, this is what I used toalways teach whenever I would
teach high schoolerscommunication is message
matters, manner matters more. Ihave heard so many communicators
that their message was a 10.Right? Like, really, really
exceptional message.
They cared about it. Theythought about it. They man, they

(24:48):
believed in the content. Theyworked so hard to prepare the
content, but their manner was atwo. And what I mean by manner
is, like, ums, uhs, likes, lowvolume, like, energy,
nonengaging, zero eye contact.
I knew a guy once that I watchedhim communicate, and as he was
communicating, hopefully, you'rewatching on video so you can see

(25:08):
this. As he was communicatingthe message he was trying to
get, literally he was talkingand his hand just went like this
and he just started going likethis with his fingers and he had
no clue he was doing it. It washis nervous tic or something. He
was just doing that and and it'slike, that is incredibly
distracting. And like everyonein the room at that point, no
one heard what he was sayingbecause everyone was like, what

(25:30):
is this joker doing with hishand right now?
Right? And it's kind of like,Ricky Bobby from Talladega
Nights is like, don't know whatto do with my hand. That stuff
is incredibly important. And wewe often don't pay attention to
that stuff because we're like,oh, that's thinking too much
about myself. No.
If you don't do that stuff well,people are not gonna be able to
hear what you are saying. Right.And so the clarity of your

(25:51):
message, the volume, the amountof filler words you're using. In
the high school communicationclass I used to teach, anytime
they'd say like or anytimethey'd start a sentence with,
we'd do 10 push ups. And theygot better real fast.
Right? So that that's what we'retalking about when we talk about
clarity is is your message ableto be delivered in such a way
that it can be understood? Mostof us never even get to the

(26:14):
starting line because there'stoo many blockers.

Ben Loy (26:16):
What is what's the bridge between those things you

(27:23):
just identified? The the thenervous tics, the the weird,
like, fidgeting. Right? Andconfidence.

Alex Judd (27:32):
Mhmm. Because that's the second quality.

Ben Loy (27:35):
Right.

Alex Judd (27:36):
I think there's you can have confidence in your
message and confidence inyourself, and I think you need
both. Right? So confidence inyour message is do you feel
competent and thereforeconfident in what you're about
to deliver? And do you do youbelieve what you're sharing?
Because if you don't believe inwhat you're sharing, why on

(27:58):
earth should anyone else?
And they will not. People again,people can smell it from a mile
away. And that's what I wouldsay is when you're confident in
your message, there are stillquirks. And I would actually say
the best communicators I knowstill have a lot of quirks, but
those quirks don't represent thelack of attentiveness or
preparation to clarity. Thosequirks represent authenticity

(28:20):
because they're literally socomfortable.
It's this was meme for quite awhile. Whenever I became the
host of the Entre LeadershipPodcast, right, one of the
largest and most prolificbusiness and leadership podcasts
in the country, Ken Coleman,brilliant leader, brilliant
podcaster. He was the one thatwas developing me. And and I'll
never forget one of the firsttimes we ever sat down to

(28:42):
record, we were having greatconversation and we were going
back and forth and stuff. Andthen he said, okay, let's go
ahead and hit record.
And it was like we were talking,we hit record, and then I was
like, hey, Kim. I'm Alex. It'sgreat to see you today. This is
gonna be awesome. And he likejust was like, okay, pause.
He was like, who is that? Andand he just, you know, gave me a

(29:02):
hard time and then he was like,that's like your, like, Magoo
voice. And I I want you to tryto never use your Magoo voice
ever again.

Ben Loy (29:08):
You're not a sports announcer. Exactly.

Alex Judd (29:10):
And that's I mean, truly Yeah. It's wild because I
I work with people a lot onpracticing their communication.
When we were practicing the talkyou're working on, you did a
great job of not doing this the

Ben Loy (29:19):
other day. That's what

Alex Judd (29:20):
it's like. They literally talk about what
they're about to do, and then Isay, okay. That's great. Now
let's just go ahead and do it.And their entire tone, their
entire inflection, their entire,like, body posture, it changes.
Right? And it's like, just be soconfident in your message that
nothing changes, that you justgo straight into it. So that's
confident in message. And thennumber two is confident in
yourself. Right?

(29:41):
You do have to have a level ofbelief of it's like, you're here
for a reason. And and I wouldsay if people wanna if people
wanna spend time on confidencein yourself, I think a great
place to start would be ourimpostor syndrome episode that
we recorded a couple weeks ago.Yeah. That's probably already
released if we're if if you'relistening to this podcast right
now. Go check out that episodebecause I think that certainly

(30:03):
overlaps with this topic ofconfidence.

Ben Loy (30:05):
Yeah. And in that conversation, we talk a lot
about integrity and just, like,reflecting your your the values
that you or the image that youproject on the outside
reflecting how you feel on theinside. And some of the because
feelings are volatile, like, ofthe truths you need to rely on
to remain in integrity. And,yeah, if you don't have that, if

(30:28):
there's a disconnect there, Ipersonally, I'm like, I can't I
I foot, mouth, like, can't talk,you know.

Alex Judd (30:36):
That's right. And and I think one of the things that
prevents people from beingconfident is the expectations
that they put on themselves thatthat they don't have to be
putting on themselves. Andoftentimes, no other people are
putting on themselves. I'vetalked to people before that are
like, I just don't feel like I'mequipped to do this message
because I feel like I need to bean expert on this content. Like,

(30:57):
you know, there are people thatare better at this than I am.
I, you know, I've only beendoing this for three years now.
And who am I to give this talk?And there's so many amazing
people in this room. And I thinkthat person went astray the
minute they put the expectationon themselves that they needed
to be an expert. Right?
And that's why I love to tellpeople. I start out the gate

(31:19):
most of the talks that I giveand say, just so you know, I'm
not an expert on this. I am apractitioner and my goal today
is not to show you everythingthat I've learned that makes me
a master of this subject.Rather, it's the stuff that I've
practiced on this subject thatI've found really beneficial and
that I wanna share with you. Theminute you do that, like, my
shoulder's lower, my breathsinks in because I'm like, I'm

(31:40):
just gonna be who I am.
But, again, I can't do that ifmy primary goal is to impress
you. If my primary goal is toimpress you, then I'm never
gonna say stuff like that.Right? If my primary goal is to
serve you, then that's just avehicle for being able to do
that. Yeah.

Ben Loy (31:56):
Let's move on to the next one.

Alex Judd (31:57):
Okay. So it's clear, confident, concise. The way I
used to teach this to to highschoolers, and I don't know if
it actually helped or not, but Iwould always say triple c,
double e is what I think of. Andand so clear, confident,
concise. This is something thatpeople often get wrong in
communication that we'llprobably, double back to here in
just a bit in one of the futureactions.

(32:19):
We think that concise is theshortest message possible. That
is not what concise means. It'saccomplishing the intended
objective in the most efficientway possible. So if I wanted to
accomplish what we're doingright now as the shortest
message possible, I would saythe five qualities are clear,

(32:40):
concise, confident, energetic,and effective. That's the
podcast.
And it would be a less thanthirty second podcast that
people listen to because that'sthe shortest message possible.
Right? But why do we not dothat? Well, the reason why we
don't do that is because I knowthat for someone to grow as a
communicator, it's not enoughjust for them to get the

(33:00):
information. They've gotta haveexamples.
They've gotta have illustration.They've gotta have reinforcement
so they're fully convinced.They've gotta have stories so
that they're emotionally boughtin. They've gotta have
inflection so that they stayengaged in all of that. And so
what concise really is, what I'mevaluating when I'm thinking
about concise is did Iaccomplish my objectives, which
means you have to haveobjectives, by the way, in the

(33:23):
most efficient way possible.
So if I wanted them to feelinspired and empowered to grow
as a communicator, if I wantedthem to understand the five
qualities, and then if I wantedthem to take one intentional
action, if those were myobjectives, what's the most
efficient way to accomplishthose objectives? And then we
can start to look at how muchtime we took and how much time.
But the thing obviouslyregarding against here is

(33:44):
useless meandering in areas thatdon't at all tie into an
intended objective. That's wherewe cross the line from
communicating into talking, andit's not helpful. And so
remember, concise, the mostefficient way to accomplish your
desired objectives.
What's the best way

Ben Loy (34:01):
to know whether or not you're being either concise
enough or you need to elaboratemore?

Alex Judd (34:07):
Yeah. This connects actually to confidence too. And
this is why I would say youwanna be confident in your
message and not confident inyour ability to memorize. I know
a lot of people that areactually speakers by by trade,
and what they are actually thatwhat they actually are is they
are world class memorizers.Mhmm.

(34:27):
And and maybe there's a placefor that. Those people make a
lot of money, actually. So maybethere's a very strong place for
that. Right? And I'm notdemeaning that at all.
That's just not what we'retalking about here. And that's
personally not the thing thatI'm most passionate about. What
I'm most passionate about is youbeing so well versed in a skill,
you being so well versed in asubject that you have your base

(34:48):
level outline because that'sconfident preparation. But then
from that, you're able to adaptand adjust and move and mold to
fit the needs of the audience.Yeah.
And so the best communicators Iknow are the ones that are
watching their audience. And itis wild. If you pay attention,
like and actually watch. Mostpeople don't look at their

(35:09):
audience in the eyes. Theyeither look at their foreheads
or they look somewhere off inthe distance that is no one at
all.
If you actually look in youraudience's eyes, you will know
when you've stopped beingconcise. Yeah. Right? And it's
not even like sometimes theyfall asleep and that's really
embarrassing. I've had thathappen before and you're like,
oh gosh, what do I do here?
Which I always shift to a storythat gives me the ability to say
and bam. Like, I walk right byhim. It's great. Yeah. But but

(35:33):
more often than not, it's justlike this glazed over look, and
you're like, okay.
I I need to I need to bring himback in. I need to reel him back
in. Maybe it's a joke. Maybeit's a shift of subject. Maybe
it's a story.
Maybe maybe I need to change myinflection or something like
that, but we need to dosomething to accomplish our
objectives, and maybe we'respending too much time on this
subject.

Ben Loy (35:52):
I had a math teacher in high school who would lob expo
markers in your generaldirection if

Alex Judd (35:56):
you started to fall asleep. Okay. Done that.

Ben Loy (36:00):
Not probably recommended for this, but, I
that's such an interesting I Ihaven't even I guess, I've
thought about that before, like,wanting to feel natural,
engaging with your audience in aalmost in a conversational way.
Because I think some of the mosteffective communicators that I
listen to, it's almost likethey're having a conversation.

Alex Judd (36:22):
That's right.

Ben Loy (36:22):
And I I'm I'm sitting across the table from you right
now. I'm like, there is so muchabout communication that is
nonverbal that, like, we'reresponding off of in a
conversation. And if you removethat from the equation when it
comes to public speaking andyou're just staring off into the
distance or or not factoringthat into or, like, taking that
into consideration, yeah, that Imean, that's gonna completely

(36:44):
change the authenticity andability for you to to really
engage with your audience. AndI've I've never really I mean,
like, obviously, I've alwaysunderstood and heard eye
contact, things like that areimportant, but that, I think,
adds an additional layer that Ihaven't I probably didn't even
consider going into that.

Alex Judd (37:01):
And it's this is a little bit of a deviation, but
directly related to the topic ofeffective communication. This is
something that I've tried togrow very intentionally in in in
the past three years becauseit's not my natural style as a
communicator. The minute theminute you start telling a good
story, people's eyes change.Mhmm. It is crazy.

(37:22):
Like, it gives me chills talkingabout it. Emphasis on good
story. Right? But the minute youstart telling a good story, oh
my gosh, the entire dynamic ofthe room changes. So I think
that's a a great piece forengaging an audience that we've
gotta keep in mind.

Ben Loy (37:37):
Yeah. Well, I mean, going back to concise versus, I
guess, further elaboration andand knowing that balance, You
talked about memorization. Andone of the things that, I was
talking to John Crawford aboutYeah. Our pastor who we're we'll
have on this podcast. We have acouple episodes with him coming
up that I'm excited about.
But we were talking and and hehe said there's a difference and

(38:00):
there's a balance betweeninternalization versus
memorization and being able tonavigate, like, the story I was
sharing, right, is somethingthat I lived through. And so I
can that is alreadyinternalized. Internalized.
Like, Like, I could stand infront of a room and tell that
story from start to finish anyday. Right?

(38:21):
Like, zero preparation. Now, thethe the clarity of it, the, the
confidence in I'm involved instanding in front of room and
telling that story. Like, therethere are some parts of it that,
okay, yeah, some practice isprobably good. But ultimately,
like, I'll get from point a topoint b in that story without
losing track, because it's an itit's internalized. And then he

(38:42):
talked about memorization, likememorizing the things that that
are important to make my make mypoint and to drive things home,
like numbers, statistics,scriptural passages, things
that, yeah, I'm I I don'tinternally know from experience.
And that's when you refer orbounce back to a script or you

(39:03):
you rely on more memorizationand and use that as a tactic.
But there's definitely aspectrum where, like, full
memorization, you you lose allauthenticity and connection with
your audience. And fullinternalization is like, okay.
You might you might get to apoint in the talk where the
audience is like, what what'sthe point again? Like, where are
where are we in this?

Alex Judd (39:24):
You know?

Ben Loy (39:24):
That's right. Yeah. So just that was I just love the
that framework ofinternalization versus
memorization. It reallyconnected for

Alex Judd (39:31):
me. I think a com well, who's to say what's,
quote, unquote, right? I wouldsay my preference is to do a
combination of the the two.You're right. And if I was to
look at my talks, I would say mybest talks are 70%
internalization, 30%memorization.
And and so that's not to saythat that should be your

(39:52):
template, but you shouldprobably if you're if you wanna
grow as a communicator,eventually get to the spot where
you have a template of how muchof this is internalized versus
how much of this is memorized.What I often see, though, is
that the minute people crossover the 50% mark into, like,
sixty, seventy, 80%memorization, then they are
spending all of their time andall of their brain capacity

(40:14):
thinking about what's the nextword on the page, and you can
literally see it in their eyes.Like, their eyes are looking up
to the back of their brain likeit's written up there or
something And like and they arenot able to spend any time
analyzing how's the roomreceiving this. Yeah. And it's
like a phone will ring, orsomeone will sneeze, or
something crazy, yeah, baby willstart crying in the room and it

(40:36):
will be like, I'm pretty surethey don't even know that just
happened.
Right? Because they just keepmoving on and that actually
feels very inauthentic. Right?It's why there's a leadership
speaker, his name is PatLencioni, that's just he is he I
would not call him a speaker. Iwould call him a communicator.
He's so good. And it's justbecause what he teaches is just
a part of who he is. Andliterally, someone sneezes in an

(40:58):
audience of 4,000 and he will besmacked out in the middle of the
thought and he'll say, oh, Godbless you. Right? And like like
everyone else is still threeseconds away from realizing
someone sneezed, but it's likeyou just get the vibe that this
guy is so in the moment Yeah.
And like he's so reading theaudience that he's able to
respond on a dime and it's it's,yeah, very good.

Ben Loy (41:18):
Very good. Yeah. Continuing the conversation on
being able to connect with youraudience and engage, where does
where does the next one, beingenergetic or being or having
energy, play into that?

Alex Judd (41:29):
Yeah. I I heard a stat once, which I don't I don't
know how you measure this, but Ican anecdotally say I I feel
like it is true. It said acommunicator should never expect
an audience to reciprocate morethan 70% of the energy that they
bring. And I from from my ownexperience, I can say I believe

(41:52):
that that is true. Right?
And, I believe that that is truein all ways in terms of, like,
if you bring positive energy andyou are a 100% energetic, man,
you're you're gonna see moreenergy in the room. Conversely,
if you bring 50% energy, it'sgonna be a freefall in your
audience, and and you should notexpect them to respond to

(42:13):
things. You should not expectthem to engage with things. You
should not expect theirnonverbal to be good. This is
why communication and leadershipgo hand in hand.
You are the leader in thissituation, and and so you gotta
be willing to take the lead in.And, what we gotta kinda
remember is do you wanna be athermometer or do you wanna be a
thermostat? A thermometer tellsyou what the temperature is. So

(42:35):
they walk into a really lowenergy, boring, apathetic room,
and they just say, well, this isthe temperature, so this is how
I'm going to communicate. Right?
A thermostat says, I I quitefrankly, it's irrelevant what
the temperature is. I'm gonnasay, where do we want the
temperature to be? And I'm gonnastrategize my talk around

(42:55):
getting us there. This is whatso many leaders don't do in the
after lunch spot. Right?
If you're communicating afterlunch, like, you know I mean,
people would rather be taking anap, period. Like, that is what
is true. Right? And so the bestcommunicators I know, they don't
ignore that, but they also don'tsettle for that. Right?

(43:16):
There's a lot of leaders I mean,I've seen speakers say, well,
I've got the afternoons, like,afternoon slots, so just do your
best not to fall asleep. Andit's like, oh, no. Why are you
saying this? What we should bedoing is we should be
acknowledging where the energyof the room is and organizing
the the first ten minutes of ourtalk to get the energy of the
room to where we want it to be.

Ben Loy (43:36):
Dive a little bit more into what you are saying about
being energetic and what you'renot saying about being
energetic.

Alex Judd (43:45):
Yeah. Like, what am I not saying that you need to be
Alex Judd? Right? And that ifyou're not running out and
jumping up and down and, likeI've done all of this before.
I've jumped I've jumped from onebox to another and literally
almost, I mean, almost gothorribly injured to, like, get
people excited.
Right? And I I, you know, jumpup and down, clap, have people
stand up, say yes, all that. Ilove that stuff. Right? Do you

(44:09):
have to be that to be aneffective communicator?
Absolutely not. I I think ofOlivia on our team. She
stylistically is a radicallydifferent communicator than I.
But, man, when she gets upthere, people lean in. And it's
because her energy that shebrings, I would say, would be
characterized by poise, bypreparation, and by great care.

(44:31):
Mhmm. And and so you know, like,man, she like, these words
matter to her. She has spenttime on these words. And then
she also has this great affectabout her where she's got humor
and smiling and encouragement,like, built in through her
message that just feels veryauthentic to who she is, that I
would say the room becomes moreenergetic the minute she gets on

(44:52):
stage. And she didn't have to doit.
She didn't have to jump once.Right? Which sometimes maybe I
could learn from that. Right?But there you you need to figure
out what is authentic to you iswhat I would say.
The one thing I would cautionpeople against, though, is if
you have not spent a great dealof time communicating, then
communicating itself will notfeel authentic to you. Right?

(45:14):
And so don't don't nick certaintactics because you're like, oh,
that and feel good right off thebat just because maybe the thing
that didn't feel good wascommunicating, but that's
because you haven't really doneit before. Yeah. And so you just
need to have this trial anderror period where you learn,
and that's why reps are sohelpful.

Ben Loy (45:31):
Yeah. I I keep mentioning myself and the
process for this, but that'sbecause I'm being a student
right now for this topic. And Ithink one of the things that you
pointed out the other day thatstruck me was you when I was
when I was kind of giving orpracticing this talk, I I was
relying a lot on my script. Andat this point, I hadn't really

(45:54):
practiced it a ton, so some ofthat was expected. But, I mean,
I had written out almost wordfor word what I would have liked
to say.
Mhmm. And the thing that youpointed out in that was I I
almost lost energy by relying onit so much. And you you told me,
you were like, you are ananimated communicator. You do

(46:16):
talk energetically and and youuse inflection and you use and
you just kind of identified someof those things that I do in
conversation when I'm talking,but I wasn't doing in the moment
when I was practicing this thetalk. And it was like, oh, this
isn't this isn't an issue of amI an an extrovert?
Am I, am I, like, a crazymotivational person or not? And

(46:36):
more of, oh, yeah, does thisdoes this feel natural for me?
And of duh. Of course not.Because I haven't I'm not well
practiced in it.
So no, it doesn't. So I need tocontinue to practice.

Alex Judd (46:46):
That's ex I know you're an anime communicator
because we do a lot of work frommy house and I'm often telling
you, Ben, the baby is sleeping.Shut up. You have to be a little
bit more quiet.

Ben Loy (46:55):
Yeah. My my laugh gets me in trouble alone. That's
right.

Alex Judd (46:58):
Which is so good. Like Yeah. Yeah. There there's
so much in that that I would,you know, I would even say the
other thing I would say withenergy, because you mentioned
laugh, is humor. Humor is, like,the one thing that opens the
door to everything else, and Imean that.
Like, you wanna energize a room,like, find some ways to be
genuinely funny. And it's crazy.I mean, I don't know. Right?

(47:22):
This is not a theologicalrecommendation at all, but Joel
Osteen, if you've ever watched aJoel Osteen sermon, he the guy
the guy communicates in a verydifferent way stylistically than
what we're talking about here.
But the first thing he does ishe goes up and tells, like, the
cheesiest joke, and he's noteven, like, he's not even
apologetic. He, like, knows it'sthe cheesiest joke. The whole

(47:42):
room of thousands of peoplelaugh, and then they get into
it. Right? And and I think thereason why he does that, someone
that's incredibly gifted in theart of persuasion and
communication, the reason why hedoes that is because humor is
something that warms the room toeverything else.

Ben Loy (47:58):
How do you incorporate humor into into your
communication? Is that somethingthat you plan ahead of time, or
is that something that you're,like, in the moment
authentically using?

Alex Judd (48:11):
Both.

Ben Loy (48:12):
Okay.

Alex Judd (48:12):
So, yeah, I guess there's a couple things I would
say about this. I think the besthumor is is genuinely
spontaneous. Right? Like, it islike I was preaching a message
at a church once, and we were, Imean, smack dab in the middle of
some pretty intense subjects.And, I mean, the room is dead
silent, and out of nowhere, adog barks.

(48:32):
Like, didn't even know there wasa dog in the room. And everyone
was like, no. Now think aboutthis. If you're not confident in
your message, what do you do inthat moment? You probably just
keep going because you're like,I don't know how to respond to
that.
Yeah. That is not appropriate atthat time. Right? And so, like,
I think I parked for two minuteson the fact that the dog was a
charismatic dog and he wassaying preach and he was in

(48:53):
alignment with the message andall of that. And right.
So so the best humor isspontaneous humor that you can't
plan for, but you're so preparedthat when the opportunity
arises, you can take advantageof it. Mhmm. I mean, people it
is so much fun. And then whenthat happens, you give people
time to laugh, and you laugh atit too. If it's genuinely funny,

(49:14):
like, what it are the the clipsfrom SNL that people love to
watch the most?
It's the one where they can'thelp but crack up. Right? Yeah.
If you do it too much, it's nogood. Right?
But but genuine emotion, genuinegenuine, like, laughter is so so
so good. And then the secondthing is prepared humor. And the
way I do that is I know it's soeffective now. I know, like, I

(49:37):
think Dave Ramsey is probablyone of the best of this I've
ever seen. If you go listen to Ilistened to a thirty minute talk
he did for Life Church onfinancial peace.
And I swear, as I was listeningto it, the left page, right, of
me where I'm, like, kind ofevaluating how he's
communicating, I'm like, thesepeople that are listening to

(49:57):
this have not gone for a minuteand a half without laughing a
single time in this entiremessage. And what's crazy is
there were also times in themessage where he had them on the
verge of tears. And so the factthat he can do that, like, he's
sporadically, like, puttingpoints throughout. And so what I
like to do is I look at myoutline, and then, you know,
this is maybe a couple daysbefore I give the talk, just

(50:19):
ask, what in here is funny? Andif you ask that question, it's
crazy.
Like, there is some stuff thatis genuinely hilarious Yeah.
That then I find a way to workthat into the talk.

Ben Loy (50:31):
Well, I especially, I mean, in Dave's position, like,
finances are such a can be sucha heavy topic for people that
and and or boring. Like, I Ifeel like I feel like there are
multiple ways that people can gointo a talk like that and be
like, oh, brother, like, here wego, or And I think incorporating
humor makes, a, it makes itrelatable and engaging and b,

(50:52):
just yeah, like, just lightensthe mood.

Alex Judd (50:56):
That's exactly right.

Ben Loy (50:56):
Being able to I mean, you you talk about pride being
being a potential issue both onthe extreme side of of lack of
confidence or, like, too muchconfidence. And what better way
to alleviate that than to just,like, yeah, acknowledge maybe
some of the quirky things thathappened during the talk or,
like, the unplanned things thatthat go on or or, yeah, what's

(51:20):
funny about this topic? Like,what is actually humorous or
weird or or quirky in a way thatI can I can use that to engage
the the audience in a relatableway?

Alex Judd (51:29):
That's exactly right. Yeah. And this is probably not
fully the the means of of whatwe're talking about here, but I
think it's good as something forpeople to be aware of. There's a
communication tactic called theillusion of spontaneity, which I
get a little bit skeptical ofthis because I'm like, well, the
goal is to be authentic. And ifyou're doing illusions, then

(51:49):
you're literally not beingauthentic.
But, there are a lot ofincredibly effective
communicators that leverage thisvery well of, like, what do
people wanna know? People don'twanna know, oh, this is a talk
you've given a billion times.People wanna think, I'm getting
the single best version of thistalk, and it's unique to me,
unique to us. And so some reallytrained and practiced

(52:09):
communicators will use what theycall the illusion of spontaneity
to basically have moments in thetalk that look unplanned so that
and that are funny or that areoff the wall a little bit, and
that gives the audience theimpression of, like, oh, this is
just for us. This is our moment.
Right? That's more, you know, Idon't know that I would

(52:29):
encourage people to to spend toomuch time on that. You also
don't want to be manipulative.That's exactly right. Yeah.
And so I would say, but morethan anything, give that to you
as a listener to say, like, beon the lookout because as you
start listening to stuff likethis, you'll start to evaluate
communication and you'llprobably start to see that stuff
a little Speaking

Ben Loy (52:48):
of spontaneity, I've decided we're having too much
fun in this conversation. Sowe're gonna do two parts.

Alex Judd (52:53):
Okay. Yeah.

Ben Loy (52:54):
That's good. In the last, we have about ten minutes
left or a little less than

Alex Judd (52:57):
ten minutes. Mean you don't wanna try and cram the
final five actions and Well,

Ben Loy (53:02):
we're gonna really lean on clarity. We're gonna just go
through bullet points. That'sright. No. Let's, let's jump
into the last part of this thissection which is effective and,
yeah, go from there.

Alex Judd (53:12):
Yeah. So the first time I ever wrote this outline,
right, on on the beach in PanamaCity, or it was Orange Beach,
actually, Alabama. I didn't knowAlabama had great beaches, but
it turns out they do. That's notan illusion of spontaneity. That
right there is spontaneity.

Ben Loy (53:24):
Florabama, dude. That's right.

Alex Judd (53:26):
So so it was the five qualities of effective
communication. And I and Iworked on them, and I said
clear, confident, concise,energetic, and effective. And
then I was like, well, that'skinda dumb. Like, one of the
qualities of effectivecommunication is that it's
effective. But then I thoughtabout it.
I was like, I think that'sactually really important. And,
you know, that's why I've keptit all the way through to today,
you know, now fifteen yearslater or whatever, is because

(53:50):
when we talk about effective,the word is used so often that
it becomes synonymous with good,and effective communication is
good communication. It's notless than that, but it is a
great deal more than that.Because effective communication,
what does it do? It it creates adesired or intended effect.
So so what we're really sayingis, did your message do what you

(54:14):
intended it to do? And that'sactually going to get into the
third point that we dive into inpart two now of this
conversation, which is reallyhaving aim and intent for your
message. But it's why it's socrucial that in the preparation
of our communication, we definewhat we are trying to
accomplish. And then we haverhythms on the back end of

(54:35):
communicating where we are are,genuinely asking, did we
accomplish what we wanted toaccomplish? And sometimes one of
the objectives is I want peopleto understand this message.
Right? Andy Stanley says, man,it's really helpful to have a a
one sentence message that ifeveryone gets nothing else, make
sure they get this message. I'llgive my talk and I'll have that

(54:58):
message in mind, and then I'lljust go to someone in the
audience and I'll say, you know,if you were to summarize that
talk in in one sentence, like,what would you say? And
sometimes this is when I'venailed it. They'll tell me the
exact sentence that I said.
They will literally regurgitateit back to me, which that's a
point in the effectivenesscolumn. Right? There are other
times which aren't my best as acommunicator where they tell me

(55:20):
something, but it's nothing likewhat I was trying to
communicate, which means I'mstruggling to transfer things
from my head to their head. Andthat goes all the way back to
how complex it is at thebeginning. But if we're never
evaluating the effectiveness arcof our communication, we're
basically our our evaluationbecomes, how'd you feel about
that?
And that's not a goodevaluation.

Ben Loy (55:41):
Yeah. I feel like that just that just is true with with
anything. Right? I mean, like,if you're not asking, like, did
we accomplish the desired resultat the end of something? I mean,
the definition of insanity isdoing the same thing over and
over and over again andexpecting a different result.
Like, if you aren't evaluatingon the back end, you're insane.
Like like, I mean, that's that'swhat that means. Right? If

(56:02):
because you're just gonna keepdoing the same thing if you're
if you're not actively going,oh, what did we do well? What
can we do different?
And, yeah, did we accomplishwhat we wanted to accomplish?
Yeah. You're just you're justgonna be running on a hamster
wheel and not really growing.

Alex Judd (56:15):
And that really effectively encapsulates really
so much of what we've talkedabout today because the
difference between talking andcommunicating is do you have a
desired result? And then whatwe're talking about here now at
the very tail end is are youevaluating whether or not you
achieved that desired result?

Ben Loy (56:31):
And I know this is a the evaluation side is another
point that we'll get into in thenext episode, but, we're out of
time. So pause here and staytuned for next week for part
two.

Alex Judd (56:42):
Awesome. Let's go. Yep. Well, there you have it.
Thanks so much for joining usfor this episode.
If you want any of theinformation or resources that we
mentioned, that's all in theshow notes. Hey. Before you go,
could I ask you for one quickfavor? Could you subscribe,
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