Find Peace through Gratitude

The practice of gratitude can change your life (and your leadership) if you commit to it. In this episode, Alex and Ben explain why gratitude is so important, and how it can ripple out from one area of your life to make a larger impact on the world around you. They unpack 4 passages from Scripture and reflect on the lessons they can teach us about gratitude. Whether you need some help getting in the Thanksgiving spirit this week, or you want to extend the gratitude mindset outside of the holiday season, this episode has something for you! 

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Episode Recap:

• Gratitude is the antidote to anxiety and an exercise in leadership 
• When you learn to see God in everything, you can’t help but feel grateful
• 1 Samuel 2 — Personal gratitude can impact an entire nation
• Philippians 4:4-9 — Prayer, supplication, and thanksgiving will lead to peace
• John 6:4-13 — When pursuing more, start with giving thanks for what you already have
• How do we balance gratitude with vision?
• Psalm 136 — Gratitude is a practice that will lead to change
• What would it look like for you to implement gratitude as a daily practice? 

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Episode Transcript

Alex Judd (00:02):
So in November we always like to dwell on and
focus on these three points.Number one is gratitude is an
antidote to anxiety and over thepast handful of years this has
actually become popularized,which is really cool. The idea
that gratitude and anxietycannot exist in the brain at the
same time. That truly if, theneuroscience shows that if your

(00:24):
brain is being gripped byparanoid fear and anxiety, but
then you choose to focus on whatyou are grateful for and not
just focus on it, but actuallyexperience gratitude in that in
that moment, the negativeemotion and by extension your
cortisol levels, which is astress hormone decrease in your
body. And so it's notexaggerating to say what we're

(00:44):
talking about today is anantidote to anxiety, and and
some people would say we live inthe age of anxiety, so that's
really important.
Number two, it's an expressionof humility. I have never heard,
and I hope you haven't either,someone saying, man, this year,
I am just so grateful for me.I'm I'm just so grateful for

(01:06):
everything I did this year.Right? Like, that just is
literally almost an oxymoron onits face because gratitude is
this thing, that forces us andcauses us just by nature to look
outside of ourselves for thethings that we don't deserve but
do get to experience.
And and that's gonna be woveninto this episode a lot. And

(01:28):
then finally, it's an exercisein leadership. The principle
here is that you don't attractwhat you want, you attract what
you are. Mhmm. And so if youwant to work with grateful,
vibrant, abundance minded,overflowing, positive, generous,
excited, passionate individuals,maybe be that type of person.

(01:50):
And it's crazy. If you start tobe that type of person, those
people will start to show up inyour life. And so in that way,
it's an exercise in leadership.And many times, we have to be
willing to go first.

Ben Loy (02:02):
I've shared this with you before, but this is to your
first point, the idea of anxietyand gratefulness or gratitude
not being able to exist justneurologically at the same time.
Yeah. I mean, one of the mostprofound things for me was, when
I was seeing a therapist duringjust a difficult season of life
and just wanted a sounding boardto process through some things.

(02:23):
And she had me just keep a agratitude journal, and it was
just list five things every daythat you're grateful for. And, I
mean, it was definitely one ofthe most profound things I've
done in in, like, that space andin the mental health space.
And, it was just amazing howsimple it was and at the same

(02:46):
time how how effective. Yeah.

Alex Judd (02:48):
Which is crazy because, you know, I mean,
people pay therapists a lot ofmoney. And it's like, all she
had to do is say, you just get anotebook and and write down five
things you're grateful for. Andyou're just like, that's the
most which you're, in some ways,insulting all the other things
she did for you. Yeah. I mean, Iheard a quote once, and I don't
know, it was a philosopher thatfirst said this.

(03:10):
He said, most people don'texperience God because they're
not willing to look low enough.And that, I mean, that feels,
like, heretical on its face.Right? But what he's saying is,
like, God is in the mundane. Godis in the everyday.
God is in the simple. And youdon't you can stand on top of a
mountain in the middle ofGlacier Mountain National Park

(03:31):
and see all of God's majesticcreation and experience
gratitude. I've done it before.Right? But you can also sit in
bed at at the end of the day andwrite, dadgummit, that was some
of the best Mexican food I'veever had tonight, and be
grateful for that too.
It's like, in some ways, I thinkit and this can be in a lot of
what we talk about today it'sseeing God not just in the big

(03:53):
things, but seeing God ineverything.

Ben Loy (03:55):
Mhmm.

Alex Judd (03:56):
And that just recontextualizes the way you
perceive and experience life.

Ben Loy (04:01):
Mhmm. And I think being being able to acknowledge the
little things as much as the bigthings is what creates
resilience in a lot of ways whenwhen life doesn't give you the
big things to be grateful forsometimes, you know?

Alex Judd (04:14):
That's so true. Yeah. And and I for me, at least, this
is gonna be in the scripturesthat I I pulled to today,
particularly in two of them. Butthat's how we kinda said we
wanted to organize this today.So we said, man, it would be be
really, I think, fascinating forboth of us individually, but we
really felt good for ourleadership community
collectively to say, you know,this is a time that is,

(04:37):
gratitude, praise god, is woveninto our culture for this
season, which is really, reallycool.
It's also really, really odd andtwisted that at the simultaneous
exact same time that gratitudehas woven its way into our
culture, consumerism, like,rears its ugly head and, like,
has its finest hour at the sametime. Right? Which we probably

(04:58):
won't get too much into thattoday. But but we kinda felt
like it would be really cool tosay, man, let's pull a a few
passages of scripture. I thinkyou pulled a few and I pulled a
few.
And and really just say, man,what what does this teach us
about gratitude? What does thisshow us about gratitude? And how
do we respond in light of whatthe word of God, what truth

(05:18):
tells us about gratitude or insome ways doesn't even tell us.
In some of these passages, atleast in particular for one of
mine, the word gratitude orthankfulness isn't in the
passage, but it's all over thepassage. Right?
It's embedded into the narrativeof what we're reading. And so,
before we jump in, to thosescriptures, is there anything
else you would add?

Ben Loy (05:38):
No. I'm excited to to get into these.

Alex Judd (05:40):
Yeah. Well, why don't you start? What what what's one
that you came up with?

Ben Loy (05:43):
One of the first things that came to mind was Hannah's
prayer in first Samuel,actually.

Alex Judd (05:48):
Deep cuts is what we're Yeah. Doing

Ben Loy (05:51):
Yeah. So this is this is not just like a single verse.
I mean, this is the entirechapter, but it's a prayer mean,
it's a prayer of thankfulnessand rejoicing, after in chapter
two, after she finds out thatshe's expecting a child and
after being barren for years andand in many ways being being
devalued and oppressed becauseof that. And so I'll read this

(06:14):
first and then go a little bitmore into it. So hold on because
this is more than just a singleverse.

Alex Judd (06:19):
Yeah. That's right.

Ben Loy (06:21):
But, yeah. Hannah prayed, my heart rejoices in the
Lord. My horn is lifted up bythe Lord. My mouth boasts over
my enemies because I rejoice inyour salvation. There is no one
holy like the Lord.
There is no one besides you, andthere is no rock like our God.
Do not boast so proudly or letarrogant words come out of your
mouth for the Lord God Lord is aGod of knowledge, and actions

(06:44):
are weighed by him. The bows ofthe warriors are broken, but the
feeble are clothed withstrength. Those who are full
hire themselves out for food,and those who are starving
hunger no more. The woman who ischildless gives birth to seven,
but the woman with many sonspines away.
The Lord brings death and giveslife. He sends some down to

(07:05):
Sheol, and he raises others up.The Lord brings poverty and
gives wealth. He humbles, and heexalts. He raises the poor from
the dust and lifts the needyfrom the trash heap.
He seats them with noblemen andgives them a throne of honor.
For the foundations of the earthare the Lord's. He has set the
world on them. He guards thesteps of his faithful ones, but

(07:29):
the wicked perish in darkness.For a person does not prevail by
his own strength.
Those who oppose the Lord willbe shattered. He will thunder in
the heavens against them. TheLord will judge the ends of the
earth. He will give power to hisking. He will lift up the horn
of his anointed.
I think one of the things thatand this is what I've written

(07:51):
alongside this entire chapterthat stuck out to me is her
personal deliverance as shecontinues to pray leads into
language of, like, nationalredemption for Israel. And, this
is at a time when, like, it'sinteresting because Israel
doesn't even have a king. And atthe very end of her prayer, she

(08:12):
says, the Lord will judge theends of the earth and he will
give power to his king. And itbecomes almost prophetic in many
ways, but it starts with thispersonal deliverance and this,
this, this ability for her topivot into a position of
thankfulness and rejoicing. Andfrom there, it's just like this,

(08:32):
this overflow, like it startswith her and then it just builds
and compounds, like, from her tothe the society around her.
She starts say saying truthsabout who God is and who who he
is in the in the through thelens of their culture. And then
from there, it honestly turnsinto, like, almost a warrior
and, like, a militaryproclamation Mhmm. Which is just

(08:56):
so interesting that it's allstarts with personal deliverance
and and that personal gratitudefor, like, who the Lord is.

Alex Judd (09:04):
What is a there's it's probably not a v, but what
is a, like, leader's takeawayfrom that prayer? Or what's the
takeaway that you have?

Ben Loy (09:12):
That's a good question. I mean, I think kind of to your
your third point that you statedat the beginning of the episode
was gratitude, practicinggratitude is is a practice in
leadership. And her gratitude inthis moment for her personal
deliverance through the lens ofher story expands beyond her

(09:33):
because she goes on to I mean,and even before this, like, she
vows to dedicate this child tothe Lord and that that child
becomes Samuel who is a a judgeof Israel in a time when the
word of the Lord wasn't heard.And, and he goes on to, you
know, appoint Saul as king andbring a king to Israel and then

(09:55):
and then anoint David as well.And it's just so interesting.
Yeah. That, like, from aleadership perspective, her
personal gratitude and herdependence and expression of
dependence on the Lord, I mean,changed a nation.

Alex Judd (11:51):
Yeah. It's interesting to think about,
like, in some ways, this is theSamuel origin story. Like,
Hannah can't have a child, andit's out of that place that God
gives her a child, and thenSamuel is raised up as one of
the most influential prophets inhistory, right, is what we would
say. Like, what is I don't know.Is there something in that that

(12:13):
it's like, this is where thatprophet came from from your
perspective?
Like, is there something weshould be taking away from the
fact that one of the mostinfluential prophets in human
history came from this place?

Ben Loy (12:25):
In many ways, came directly, like, directly from
the just the Lord's grace andprovision for Hannah. Yeah. I
guess I'm not sure beyond thatwhat you're alluding to.

Alex Judd (12:37):
Well, I I don't know that I'm alluding to anything. I
was genuinely asking. Yeah. But,I mean, there is something I it
seems like like Samuel standsout as being deeply surrendered
to God in a culture that was notthat way, and particularly
standing, directly across fromand later opposed to Saul, who

(12:58):
was incredibly intimidating andinfluential figure Mhmm. Who was
not fully surrendered to God.
And, you know, I'm kind ofinspired as a parent of seeing,
like, well, why was Samuel sosurrendered? And, well, probably
his mom had something to do withit in some way. She she
basically got to the point whereshe had thrown her hands up and
said, I I'm barren. I can't makethis happen. And and mourning,

(13:21):
and out of that, God gives her achild.
And now yeah. It's almost weirdbecause I don't I often don't
pray the way we read in here. II prayer for me is I I mentally
distinguish prayer from worship,and I think what we see here is,
like, this is, like, worship forher. Mhmm. And and it's it's
certainly not just requests, butshe is just line after line

(13:44):
after line saying what God iscapable of, what God has done,
and what God can do.

Ben Loy (13:48):
Mhmm. And what's even more interesting in that is in
chapter one, when she prays toGod for a child, she calls on
the God of armies, which, again,like, speaks to where Israel was
as a nation at the time. And,like, she's not only
acknowledging her desires andneed for deliverance, but she's

(14:12):
also at the same time in, like,the same breath acknowledging
the the culture around her'sneed for for the Lord.

Alex Judd (14:21):
Mhmm. I I read this prayer, and I I think of our
father who art in heaven,hallowed be thy name. Like, the
this is almost the preamble tothe Lord's prayer and that the
whole thing is adoration. Andsometimes if I'm not careful, my
adoration at the front end of myprayer can be one sentence, God,

(14:42):
you are good. Mhmm.
Right? And I think it it'sactually it's a really good
example here, the language andthe imagery that she holds in
her head about just how big andgreat and grand god is and
everything that he's done andeverything that he's capable of.
And in some ways, like, you cantell, like, he's worked on her

(15:03):
heart to be so soft to then justmove forward in his power and
not in her own power. And forme, I guess and then I'd love to
know, you know, do you have apractical takeaway from this
scripture? But mine is, man,adoration, like, is not just a
check the box thing

Ben Loy (15:21):
Mhmm.

Alex Judd (15:21):
To get to your prayers that are actually, like,
requests. Or even to say becauseI think in some ways, gratitude
and adoration are differentthings. Gratitude is thanks for
what you did. Adoration in someway, she's just like bowing down
before who he is. And to carveout time for genuine adoration
that breathes life into thegratitude that we're about to

(15:41):
express.

Ben Loy (15:42):
Mhmm. What just came to mind was, like, blessed are the
poor in spirit for theirs is thekingdom of heaven. Right? This
speaks to that in a in apowerful way. And and I guess
the practical application ofthat is it isn't, oh, like, woe
is me, woe is me, like, comingto the Lord with this, I think,

(16:02):
what can sometimes be wrapped upas, like, this overwhelmingly
negative view of yourself.
Right? But it's it's coming tohim with an acknowledgment of
your need for him and of theworld's need for him. And going
beyond just like, oh, God, youare good. Like, thank you. And
really just sitting in that,like, no, God, we need you.

(16:24):
Like, you are good. And I thinktake yeah. Like you said, like,
taking the extra time to sit inthat.

Alex Judd (16:31):
Yeah. And total trust and belief and confidence in his
all sufficiency.

Ben Loy (16:37):
Mhmm.

Alex Judd (16:37):
I mean, you know, there are sometimes where you
read things in the Old Testamentand you're like, man, I don't
operate with that same level ofboldness. Right? The and I I
hadn't really read it the wayyou kinda got into it at the
beginning of our discussionwhere it's like, her respect,
confidence, belief, faith in Godstarted with her of, like, you I

(17:00):
was barren, and you gave me achild. And then it, like, almost
couldn't help but overflowinginto, like, those areas that she
influences the nation that she'sa part of and and the world and
the human race that that nationis nested in. Mhmm.
And for reasons that I'm not yetready to share, I'm very
passionate about the wordoverflows right now. But but

(17:22):
this is an example of that.Right? Like, it's like, you
can't help but see as itprogressed through what is
really, you know, maybe 15sentences, the span of influence
and belief and power in God getswider and wider and wider. And
maybe a principle from that isthat gratitude does beget
gratitude.

Ben Loy (17:39):
Mhmm.

Alex Judd (17:39):
Like, the minute you start to the minute you ask the
question, what is good, right,beautiful, and true, and you
start to get answers, which ispretty cool. Mhmm. And then the
more you get answers, the easierit is to get additional answers

Ben Loy (17:52):
Mhmm.

Alex Judd (17:52):
Which is just crazy that life works that way. Yep.
Philippians four four throughnine. We actually just went
through this at our experience.I kinda wanna give the whole
thing, and then we'll zoom in onthe gratitude piece in
particular.
But it's, so this has been my mycold plunge memory verse lately.
If I Nice. If I start shiveringwhile I'm saying this, it's

(18:14):
force of habit.

Ben Loy (18:15):
There you go.

Alex Judd (18:16):
Yeah. I swear sometimes I'm like, my neighbors
probably think I'm a crazyperson because I, you know, get
into my skivvies and then jumpin cold water and I'm like
screaming these verses. Maybenot screaming them all the time.
Yeah. So it says, rejoice in theLord always.
Again, I say rejoice. Let yourreasonableness be known by
everyone. The Lord is at hand.Do not be anxious about

(18:38):
anything, but in everything, byprayer and supplication with
thanksgiving, let your requestbe made known to God. And the
God of peace, which surpassesall understanding, will guard
your hearts and minds in ChristJesus.
Finally, brothers, whatever isright, whatever is honorable,
whatever is just, whatever ispure, whatever is lovely,
whatever is commendable, ifthere is any excellence, if
there's anything worthy ofpraise, think about such things.

(19:01):
What you have received, what youhave heard, what you have
learned, what you have seen inme, practice these things, and
the god of peace will be withyou. Oh, I I love it so much.
It's so, so, so powerful. So, Imean, I actually think there's
elements of all three of ourbeginning principles, you know,
on anxiety, humility, andleadership embedded in this

(19:22):
scripture in Philippians.
But but the obvious one is,like, man, Paul Paul knew the
neuroscience way before theneuroscience but way before
neuroscience was even a word.Right? Paul knew the
neuroscience. The fact that heliterally says, do not be
anxious about anything, but ineverything, by prayer and

(19:43):
supplication, with thanksgiving,let your request be made known
to God, is so cool. He he's he'snot just telling us do not be
anxious, he's giving us apractical tool and part of that
practical tool is thanksgiving,which is so so so cool.

Ben Loy (20:01):
Yeah. I think Matt Chandler says a lot in his
sermons, like, he loves whenscience catches up to God. Yeah.
It's like a study comes out thatit's like, turns out it's like
beneficial for your mentalhealth to take one day off,
completely unplugged a week.It's like, well, yeah, someone's
been doing that for thousands ofyears, but we don't wanna talk
about that.

Alex Judd (20:20):
That's exactly right. Yeah. And I mean, in some ways
that not in some ways. That iswhat it seems like what's going
on here. But so if we zoom in onthat that verse, do not be
anxious about anything, but ineverything, which, man, the word
everything is pretty allencompassing.
Like, that's literally whateverything is. It's all

(20:42):
encompassing. Right? Like,comprehensive in everything. You
know, wrap your head around fora little bit what it would look
like to do this for everythingMhmm.
By prayer and supplication. Soprayer is a communion with God,
verbal communion with God.Supplication is asking God to
supply your needs. So that isrequesting. And then he adds

(21:04):
this tag in there, which isworth underlining, circling,
highlighting, with thanksgiving,let your requests be made known
to God.
So I think the first thing thatI would say is it's not a denial
of need. It's not that at all.It's saying, man, I do need
things. That's why we're we haverequests that need to be made
known to God. There are needsthat I have, but my proper

(21:27):
response to that is not to beanxious.
That's the common response.Mhmm. Man, I have needs. I, in
myself, am not sufficient. Andso, therefore, because I see my
vulnerability and inefficiencytotally and completely exposed,
I'm gonna be anxious.
In reality, what this is saying,man, bring those things to God

(21:49):
in prayer, ask for them, but butpart of that is, like, with
thanksgiving, which isinteresting because you're
saying I need things, and he'ssaying, well, make sure that
when you when you commune withGod on what you need, you're
also being thanked. Mhmm. And II mean, I don't think anything
in this book is an accident. Ireally don't think that's an

(22:09):
accident. Yeah.
I'd love to get your thoughtson, you know, why with
thanksgiving was so worthputting two commas in that
sentence. Right? Because they'rethere.

Ben Loy (22:20):
Yeah. I guess I have two thoughts. The the first one
is if we understand our greaterneed for God and who he is, it
that informs our our tangibleneeds, our our requests, and and
the things in our life that arelike, yeah, God, will you come

(22:40):
through here? Will you supplythis? Will you, will you bless
this endeavor?
And so if we don't have anunderstanding and a heart of
thankfulness for what Jesus hasdone for us in in in the first
place, like, how are we gonnacome to the Lord with any any
heart of gratitude, you know?That's when I think God turns

(23:03):
into the the the genie. Right?The, like, I'm gonna come to him
with these requests for thingsthat I need and my view of who
he is is pretty much completelydependent on whether or not
those things come to fruition.Right?

Alex Judd (23:16):
You mean my concept of God as Robin Williams in
Aladdin, like, blue Exactly. Notcorrect. That's not what?

Ben Loy (23:24):
But I mean, that is that is really if we don't
acknowledge our our greater needfor who for who God is and and
what Jesus has done for us,that's really what it becomes.
And so flipping that on its headand going, oh no, I'm going to
acknowledge In the same wayHannah did, right? I'm gonna
acknowledge him as all powerful.I'm gonna acknowledge him as so

(23:46):
much bigger than than me and mystory. And then from there, like
petition him for the things thatI know that he cares about
because he said that he lovesus.

Alex Judd (23:55):
Yeah. In response to anxiety, we can say, man, I'm to

(25:02):
opt for the strategy that saysI'm not gonna trust in anything.
I'm gonna try to controleverything. Which that will, not
might. It will make you moreanxious because you can't
control everything.
So so that's a failing strategy.Or you can say, man, in the face
of my insufficiency and theanxiety that comes along with

(25:24):
it, I'm gonna trust in myability to become sufficient

Ben Loy (25:28):
Mhmm.

Alex Judd (25:28):
Also a failing strategy. It doesn't work.
Right? And so then what is beingadvocated we do here is, in the
face of my insufficiency andit's a complementary anxiety,
what am I going to trust in? I'mgonna trust in God in prayer.
So so I'm gonna focus on thingsI can control, which there are

(25:50):
some things I can control, butthen I'm gonna pray to God for
the things that I cannotcontrol. I'm gonna trust him for
those things. And how do webuild trust and confidence?
Well, it's probably gratitudefor what he's already done for
us in the past. Yep.
You know, I think there'sprobably a good tie in here of,
like, the Jewish people to thisday are so good at remembering.

(26:13):
Yep. Right? Like, do not forgetthe God that brought them out of
Egypt across the Red Sea. Twothousand years removed, they do
not forget that moment, and theyrehearse that moment.
They remember that momentbecause if we look back and we
say, man, remember all the timesthat you were in a bind before,
and God didn't just take you toit, he got you through it. To

(26:34):
sound like doctor Seuss. Then,man, that's gonna give me a lot
of confidence for this moment.And so I think that's one of the
reasons practically why withthanksgiving is in there is
because, man, if you are facinga wall that that you're like,
man, I don't know how I am goingto get over this, whether it's
an obstacle that you generatedor one that was generated by

(26:56):
circumstance or something thatyou've just never even faced
before. Well, what's really,really helpful is to realize,
man, there were times in my lifeprevious to this moment where
there were walls that I didn'tthink I could get over, and we
are now here.
Yeah. And when you rememberthat, it gives you the the
courage and faith just to takeanother step.

Ben Loy (27:18):
Yeah. Well, what does the next verse there say? Right?
It says, and I have CSV, so itmight be slightly different than
your

Alex Judd (27:24):
version there. So, just a little bit wrong is what
you're saying. Yeah. Exactly. Ohgosh.
I immediately feel really badfor a second.

Ben Loy (27:31):
With thanksgiving, present your request to God and
the peace of God which surpassesall understanding will guard
your hearts and minds in Jesusin Christ Jesus. And what is the
antithesis to anxiety? It's it'speace. Right? And if we're
practicing gratitude on a levelwhere it is it is formed trust

(27:53):
with God, it has createdresilience in our understanding
of who he is, Like, that in turnis going to it's I mean, it
says, will guard your hearts andminds.
Like, guard your hearts andminds from, like, what causes us
anxiety in this society? Like,discontentment, comparison, just
general busyness and gettinglike, if you have a if you have

(28:13):
a right understanding of who Godis, what he's done for you and
you're practicing gratitude, Imean, this is what it says.
Like, it is literally, you arefortifying your heart and your
mind against against anxiety.Yeah. So

Alex Judd (28:25):
So good. I mean, you think about think about what
Paul was doing. Right? And thinkabout what Paul was doing from a
leadership perspective. Right?
This is a guy that is, you know,I think it takes incredible
leadership capacity to startanything from the ground up.
Right? You know, add anotherlayer of difficulty and probably
emotional and human complexityand make the thing that you're

(28:47):
starting a church in a culturewhere people had I mean, not
even just, intense opinions,violent opinions about what you
were doing. And just to step outand say, I'm gonna plant this.
I'm gonna launch this.
I'm gonna start this. Whetherit's a startup or a church is an
endeavor in itself. And Pauldedicated, you know, a a massive
portion of his life to not justdoing that once, but doing that

(29:11):
multiple place multiple times,multiple places Yeah. Different
geographic locations. Like, thisguy, I mean, is a pretty
stalwart leader.
He was constantly on theprecipice of not what was, but
what is going to be, and he was,like, leaning forward. He he saw
where things were going, and hewas on offense with that. And
and so in some ways, I readthis. I'm like, well, this is

(29:34):
his playbook. This is how he wasable to do that.
If anyone probably could bepretty anxious, it, he probably
would have a pretty good excuseto be anxious. And so he's
saying, how do you operate withpeace, prayer, supplication with
thanksgiving? And what's crazyis that peace that you get from
that prayer and supplicationwith thanksgiving, it's weird

(29:55):
that it's like an active peace.Like, it is guarding your hearts
and minds in Christ Jesus iswhat it says. It's like, if you
think of, like, centurionstanding guard not allowing the
messages of our worry filledculture to get into your head,
like, that's what's happeninghere.
And, man, so powerful. Mhmm.Right? But it you know, I guess

(30:18):
another practical takeaway onthis is peace peace is not just
something we passively receive.Like, he he does allude to the
fact that we have a role to playin our peace.
We we don't we are not the soleinventors or creators of our
piece, and our piece does notcome from us, but we're also not

(30:38):
these passive victims hoping forpeace to be bestowed upon us.
Yeah. Was there something youwere gonna say there?

Ben Loy (30:44):
I was gonna ask you. Was there anything else that you
you wanted to know on thisverse?

Alex Judd (30:48):
Well, I think the verses following it, in some
ways, are, like, his practicaltakeaways because he does this,
like, super epic list, which I'ma sucker for a good list. And he
says, like, finally, brothers,whatever is right, whatever is
honorable, whatever is just,whatever is pure, whatever is
lovely, whatever is commendable,if there's any excellence, if
there is anything worthy ofpraise, think about such things.
So if just being grateful, if wejust say be grateful is a little

(31:12):
bit too generalized a statement,He breaks it down for us. And
what's so cool is, you know, inworking on this verse some, I
I've done this exercise a fewtimes now where I just go
through my day and say, man,what was right today? What what
was, what was honorable today?
What was commendable today? Youknow, is there anything that was

(31:32):
excellent excellent today? Isthere anything that was worthy
of praise today? And, you know,if you want better results, ask
better questions. Like, he givesus a great series of questions,
and then he literally says,think about these things.
He's telling us what to thinkabout. And you cannot feel bad
after spending two minutesthinking through that list.
Like, you you can't do it. Andso, you know, this is where we

(31:55):
gotta put some skin in the gamein some ways and be like, okay,
he's giving me the playbook. NowI need to run the play.
Yeah. And are we going toexecute? Which is yeah. It's
it's such a gift.

Ben Loy (32:06):
Yeah. This is this is a this is a kind of funny story.
The just the the idea ofpractices and and gratefulness
and practicing gratefulness. Iwas on a backpacking trip once
with these two friends and itwas two nights. The first night,
we hike up, relatively lowmileage, like, think it was,
like, six miles, and then spendthe night on this lake in the

(32:29):
Cascades in Oregon.
And it is I mean, it ispristine. It is beautiful. We're
the only ones out there. It wasjust a gorgeous night. Stars
were out.
Fourth of July weekend, like, itwas it was just the you know,
picture perfect. We we wake upthe next day and we hike up to
the next lake that we were goingto, camp at that night. And we

(32:49):
do a little day hike and we getback and it's maybe three or
four in the afternoon. And Idon't know what it was about the
difference between the daybefore and this day, but this is
the day that every every egg formosquitoes in the state of
Oregon decided to justinstantaneously hatch. We're
here.
And and, I mean, it was like itwas insane how many there were

(33:12):
and no way to escape. And sowhat we end up at the end of
this hike, like, we run out ofbug spray. We we run out of
everything. We build a campfire.We're, like, trying to use smoke
to to get rid of them.
At one point, we're in the lakein this, like, probably it's
pretty cold, like in the sixtiesdegree lake, like up to our eyes
with hats on. And we're like,well, this is fun. And we get

(33:33):
into our tents and we justretire. It's like 5PM and the
sun's still up. I'm, like, in myhammock with the bug net and, my
friends Chad and Erica are intheir tent and we're just laying
there.
And the next day, we're hikingout, still getting eaten alive
by mosquitoes, and we were justtalking about the night before.
And I don't know how theconversation came up, but Chad
was, like, yeah, I was justlaying there and I just started

(33:56):
to, like, list all the thingsthat I was grateful for. And I
was just, like, a, convictedbecause I was, like, that is not
what I was doing. I was juststaring at the mosquitoes, like,
circling above me, you know,going, oh, this sucks. Like, you
know, this is not at all what wepictured would be happening.
And but at the same time, like,yeah, what a great what a great
practice of of gratefulness.And, when you have a framework

(34:19):
like this, like, scripture isliterally giving you the
playbook of, like, this is howto be grateful, this is how to
find peace, is to meditate onthese things.

Alex Judd (34:27):
Yeah. I I would tell people, because it's been so
beneficial to me, if you'relooking for something to
memorize, that list is reallygood. Whatever is right,
honorable, just, pure, lovely,commendable, if there's any
excellence, if there's anythingworthy of praise. Like, that
list serves as a prompt for whatto be grateful for that you can
literally pull out at any timeMhmm. Including when you are

(34:48):
surrounded by

Ben Loy (34:49):
mosquitoes, which is really

Alex Judd (34:51):
okay. Can I do the, can I do the next one? Yes.
Because I think it's actuallydirectly related. So To
mosquitoes?
No. Not to this well, I Iactually wouldn't be surprised
if there were some mosquitoes inthis story, but, yeah, you never
think about Jesus swatting amosquito. Yeah. Is that
something he would do, or isthat yeah. I don't know.
Okay. So it's John six, and andI'll start at verse four. Man,

(35:16):
it's almost a little bit like anI spy because you can miss this.
I I I just read this the otherday, and I would not have gone
seeking this passage for thisepisode, but but I went I went
through this passage just partof my own as part of my own,
like, morning devotion. And andI as a result, because I knew we
were playing this episode, like,stopped smack dab in the middle.

(35:36):
So see if you can catch it. Soit says, now the Passover, the
feast of the Jews was at hand,lifting up his eyes then and
seeing that a large crowd wascoming toward him, Jesus said to
Philip, where are we to buybread so that these people may
eat? He said this to test him,for he himself knew what he
would do. Philip answered him,200 denarii worth of bread would
not be enough for each of themto get a little. So there's

(36:00):
obviously 5,000 people sittingthere, and they say that's 5,000
men.
So it was actually probably morethan that. One of his disciples,
Andrew, Simon Peter's brother,said to him, there's a boy here
who has five barley loaves andtwo fish. But what are they for
so many? Jesus said, have thepeople sit down. Now there was
much grass in the place.

(36:21):
So the men sat down, about 5,000in number. Jesus then took the
loaves, and when he had giventhanks, he distributed them to
those who were seated, so alsothe fish as much as they wanted.
And when the disciples had eatentheir fill, he told the
disciples, gather up theleftover fragments that nothing
may be lost. So they gatheredthem up and filled 12 baskets

(36:43):
with fragments from the fivebarley loaves left by those who
had eaten. So people are hungry.
Jesus recognizes the need, givesthanks, feeds the people, and
sends them home with a to gobox. Like, how epic is that? But
obviously, the the piece herethat just stood out to me is

(37:04):
when he had given thanks andparticularly where that happens
in the story. Like, it does nothappen post miracle. It happens
pre miracle.
And there's a couple things herethat we could say, man, he might
be giving thanks for. The fivebarley loaves and two fish is

(37:25):
probably one of them, and itseems as though that's one of
them. Also, the fact thateveryone has grass to sit down
on, like, the fact that that'slisted in the scripture, like,
now everyone had, like, a a nicepiece of grass. Like, enough
grass for 5,000 people is nojoke. Right?
But then also just, you know,the forethought and the

(37:45):
wherewithal to give thanks foreverything that already exists
that's good before you're aboutto get more good, I I think, to
your point, is both convictingbut also really inspiring. And
if Jesus can do that, then, man,am I not called to give thanks
for the things that I don'tdeserve but do get to experience

(38:05):
right now? Not because I'm notasking for more, but in pursuit
of more, start with thanks.

Ben Loy (38:11):
So it's just so interesting to think of Jesus,
like, giving thanks, you know,and I guess the you think about,
like, the dynamic of, yeah, whatwas he giving thanks for? Just
the fact that, like, even heacknowledges, like, the father's
provision, you know, which iscool.

Alex Judd (38:31):
And what's interesting here is, like, the,
the disciple's response or thedisciple disciple's thought
process is probably mostreflective of my typical thought
process. Mhmm. Right? Becausethey see the five barleys and
and the two fish. Right?
The the five loaves and the twofish. And their immediate

(38:53):
response is, well, we have this,but what is that for so many?
Mhmm. And so, basically, they'relike, yeah. We have something,
but it's basically nothingcompared to the need.
Mhmm. And, man, how many timesdo I do that? Right? Where I
say, sure, I have something. I Imean, yeah, I don't have
nothing, but I but it'sbasically nothing because look
at all everything that needs tobe done or look at everything

(39:15):
that could be done or look ateverything that I need right
now.
Meanwhile, Jesus takes thosefive loaves and and two fish and
says, man, thank god for this.Thank god for the five loaves
and the two fish. So he'sthankful for what he has, and
and then he requests themiracle, which is, man, so, so,

(39:35):
so good. So my practicaltakeaway here is, like, man,
take stock, take inventory ofwhat you have right now and say
thanks for those. Bless those.
Because that will change the wayyou experience what what happens
with those.

Ben Loy (39:50):
Yeah. Yeah. I guess when you understand every
blessing, everything that wehave, like, I mean, the world
the world sits in, like, thehands of of God. Right? I mean,
he he, in his grace, like,suspends the laws of physics
that, like, keep us togetherand, like, allow us to live this
life.
And, like, if you when you'rewhen you're able to to step back

(40:13):
and just acknowledge even eventhe small things and the ways
that that God is providing,yeah, it's just gonna change
your heart posture. Mhmm. In therealm of of thanksgiving, do you
think that this passage speaksto our, like, expectation at all
of what the Lord could do orwhat the Lord, like, can use in

(40:35):
our lives?

Alex Judd (40:36):
I mean, I think it probably should. Yeah. I don't
think it's exaggerating to say,like, the miracles that we read
about and even the miracles thatwe hear about, God always starts
with what is and then, you know,creates what could be. But you
gotta start with what is. Andit's hard for him to work in and
through what is if we can't evensee that.

(40:57):
Right? Like, and and how are wegonna get to be a part of what
he wants to be, like, what hewants to create, what he wants
to become if, like, we're noteven grateful for what is.
Right? And there you know, thenit's helpful to remember that
the thing that is my is issomeone else's miracle. Right?
The thing that I just call everyday is someone else's mir

(41:17):
someone is praying for a carright now. Right? Someone needs
a car right now, and that'stheir prayer. And meanwhile, I'm
I just turn on my car, and itworks. Right?
Like, we better be grateful. Youknow? It connects to that. It
was so powerful for me when Irealized, like, d, the the
prefix d is apart or away from.And so you apply that to

(41:41):
deserve.
Like, I deserve this

Ben Loy (41:44):
Mhmm.

Alex Judd (41:44):
Or everything that I experience right now, I deserve.
It's like deserved. Apart oraway from serve. Mhmm. You
cannot serve.
You cannot be open handed. Youcannot be loose grip. You
certainly can't live in theoverflow if you you're operating
from entitlement. Mhmm. Andgratitude is how we get away
from entitlement.
Right? I the is what I was gonnasay earlier is the Jewish people

(42:06):
that we know do such a wonderfuljob of before they take a bite
of anything or a drink of water,they just murmur this blessing.
Right? Like, they they just say,blessing to god for what has
been given to them. And,hopefully, those of us that
practice the Christian faithalso take take this into
account.
Right? I think it's somethingthat I've I was to say one
practical thing that I did totake my faith more seriously

(42:29):
over the course of the pastprobably five years, it was I'm
gonna pray before every meal.Like, I I'm you know, it used to
be I pray before some dinners,and then it became before all
dinners. And now it's like, I'mgonna pray before every meal.
And that is honestly, I thinkit's an easier standard than
sometimes or when I feel like itor stuff like that.

(42:50):
I I you know, I think it's aneasier standard. But, you know,
it's not just to check the box.It's like the food that is
sitting in front of me right nowis total gift, and I am not
guaranteed to it. And everythingthat I've experienced today is
total gift, and I'm notguaranteed to get it or
experience to it. And and, youknow, if we think about the
science of habit building, it'scue habit reward.

(43:10):
So cue is something that you'reyou're already doing. It's
already habitualized, likesitting down to eat breakfast,
lunch, and dinner. The habit isthe thing that you do, and then
the reward is the thing thatreinforces the habit, eating.
Right? And so there is such, thestructure for gratitude is built
into our life through this thingcalled food.

Ben Loy (43:29):
Mhmm.

Alex Judd (43:30):
And, man, it's so helpful to sit down and just
before you take your first biteto have the cue sound, sitting
down, to say a prayer, and then,and then to enjoy the food. And
what I find is when I actuallytake a deep breath and pray
well, like, with my heart beforeeating, I enjoy the food more.
Yeah. Novel idea. Right?

(43:50):
Yeah.

Ben Loy (43:51):
Well, and from the idea of, that verse in Philippians,
like, I mean, creatingresilience, right, guarding your
heart, guarding your mind, like,that takes like, with anything,
I mean, if you wanna createresilience in any area, if you
wanna get stronger, if you wannaget faster, if you wanna yeah, I
mean, like, if you wanna developa skill of any kind, right?
Like, it takes consistentpractice and you're implementing

(44:14):
gratitude as a consistentpractice throughout your day.
Mhmm. Going back to this versein John, this idea of seeing,
like, what is, but then alsohaving a vision of, like, what
could be and and the and thepotential or or the the the way
things could go. Right?
And and through gratitude andjust your understanding of who

(44:35):
God is, like, having having anunderstanding of of what's maybe
even possible. How like, whatwould you say, like, with that
frame? Because I feel likethat's a struggle. And, I mean,
you you fall into, like, thevisionary category as a leader.
And and, like, how does someonein that position or in that
leadership role balance, like,gratitude and gratefulness, but

(44:58):
also, like, a lot of them,visionaries in general, are just
wired with the, like, this iswhat could be.
This Yeah. These are thepossibilities. Like So, yeah,

Alex Judd (45:07):
balancing gratitude and and contentment. Yeah.
You're I know you're using theEOS term visionary. I I think
being called a visionary leaderis incredibly intimidating. I

Ben Loy (45:18):
Well, I I I'm using visionary less than the EOS term
and more of just, like, the thedisposition of, like, yeah, sees
and ideates, like, what couldbe.

Alex Judd (45:27):
Sure. Right? Yeah, absolutely. You know, and I
mean, I've I've never thoughtabout this through this lens
before, but let's think about,like, who probably had the best
vision of what could be. Well,the guy in this story is pretty
good.
Right? Like, I mean, when he'splaying praying your kingdom
come, your will be done, it'slike he knows exactly what that
looks like. Right? And and so heknows what the kingdom of God

(45:49):
is. And for us, our goal is tobe ambassadors for bringing that
to to the earth as well.
Right? So the kingdom of God,what is good, what is right,
what is beautiful, what is true.Jesus is the one who had the
greatest vision for what is mostgood, most right, most
beautiful, most true. I heardsomeone say once that heaven is

(46:11):
the place that is perfect andalways getting better. Like,
What is that?
Right? And Jesus knew what thatlooked like. And also Jesus
doesn't know time, so he knewevery iteration of what perfect
and always getting better lookedlike. Right? You're talking
about visionary leader.
Oh my gosh. Meanwhile, though,he's, like, here, like, with,

(46:31):
people that are, I mean,irritable, jealous, paranoid,
anxious, angry, fearful,murderous. Like, he's here in
the midst of sin and and, Imean, real brokenness. And he's
not just, like, a spectator.He's, like, in it.
He can see it. He's in the gritand the grime. And it's like he

(46:53):
doesn't lose hold of what couldbe. He doesn't lose hold of what
clear I mean, clearly, thevision of what is most good,
right, beautiful, and true isthe thing that is compelling him
to move forward through hardthings and through the most
difficult thing ever. Right?
But then at the same time, he isgrateful for what is. Like,

(47:13):
there's snapshots of good,right, beautiful and true here
right now. And maybe one ofthose snapshots here is, God,
you gave us you gave us thisbread, and you gave us this
fish, and you gave us 5,000people whose whose ears are,
like, their radar is on forwhat's going on in the kingdom
of God right now. And so hesays, it's not everything it

(47:34):
could be. And I and I am fullyaware of that, but that's not
gonna keep me from beinggrateful right now.
And and I struggle with thatsometimes because there's times
where I I will have such a clearvision of what it could be that
I see something right now thatthere are things going on right
now that are objectively good,right, beautiful, and true, but
I can't see them because I'm I'mso compelled for my vision of

(47:57):
what could be. And sometimes wecall that good leadership, and
that's not Right? It's and itgets into one of the other
verses we wrote down. It's likegood leadership is saying, man,
we have so much to be gratefulfor right now, and we are going
to use that, that five loavesand two fishes, the springboard
into what could be. But we'renot gonna demean, devalue, or
degrade what is so that we canpursue what could be.

(48:21):
We're gonna be thankful andgrowing, I think, is what we
should focus on. Cool. That is agood question. That's a really
good question. I shouldn't soundsurprised.
I mean, you always ask goodquestions. Yeah. Do do we have
time for one more?

Ben Loy (48:33):
Yes. Yeah. We do. Okay.

Alex Judd (48:34):
You go for it.

Ben Loy (48:35):
Okay. This is another full chapter, but we'll we'll
we'll speak through it.

Alex Judd (48:39):
Very good.

Ben Loy (48:40):
Psalm one thirty six.

Alex Judd (48:42):
Okay.

Ben Loy (48:43):
Growing up, my mom used to read the bible to my brothers
and I. Mhmm. And, like, we'd sitdown and every time we would hit
this psalm, after every phrasein the psalm is the the phrase,
his love his faithful loveendures forever. Mhmm. And for
whatever reason, my mom, insteadof having instead of her reading
that, she would read the firstpart aloud and then we would
repeat his faithful love enduresand I just remember as a little

(49:05):
kid, like, just being, like, hisfaithful love endures forever.
His faithful And then not reallyknowing because I didn't really
know the passage that well,like, when it was going to end.
So just, like, going on and onand on. But but it it's cool,
like, as an as an adult, like,looking looking at this and I
mean, it begins and ends withjust the phrase, give thanks to
the Lord for he is good. Andthat is mean, it is just a

(49:28):
statement. Right?
Like, give thanks to the Lordfor he is good. Like, that is
who God is. And at the end itsays, give thanks to the God of
heaven. But in between, kind of,on that idea that we were
talking about of of remembrance,it's just this story of, I
think, David who wrote thisgoing through all of the ways
that, like, God has beenfaithful to his people and every

(49:51):
single statement after everysingle statement stating his
faithful love endures forever.So I'm gonna read this real
quick and then we can we cantalk about it.
Cool. Give thanks to the Lordfor he is good. His faithful
love endures forever. Givethanks to the God of gods. His
faithful love endures forever.
Give thanks to the Lord oflords. His faithful love endures

(50:12):
forever. He alone does greatwonders. His faithful love
endures forever. He made theheavens skillfully.
His faithful love enduresforever. He spread the land on
the waters. His faithful loveendures forever. He made the
great lights. His faithful loveendures forever.
The sun to rule the by day. Hisfaithful love endures forever.

(50:36):
The moon and the stars to ruleby night. His faithful love
endures forever. He struck thefirstborn of the Egyptians.
His faithful love enduresforever and brought Israel out
from among them. His faithfullove endures forever. With a
strong hand and outstretchedarm, his faithful love endures

(50:56):
forever. He divided the Red Sea.His faithful love endures
forever and led Israel through.
His faithful love enduresforever, but hurled Pharaoh and
his army into the Red Sea. Hisfaithful love endures forever.
He led his people in thewilderness. His faithful love
endures forever. He struck downgreat kings.

(51:19):
His faithful love enduresforever and slaughtered famous
kings. His faithful love enduresforever. Sihon, king of the
Amorites, his faithful loveendures forever. And Og, king of
Bashan, his faithful loveendures forever, and gave their
land as an inheritance. Hisfaithful love endures forever.

(51:41):
An inheritance to Israel for hisservant. His faithful love
endures forever. He rememberedus in our humiliation. His
faithful love endures foreverand rescued us from our foes.
His faithful love enduresforever.
He gives food to every creature.His faithful love endures
forever. Give thanks to the Godof heaven. His faithful love

(52:05):
endures forever. Just yeah.
I mean, I don't know of anyother passage in the bible that
just, like, repeats the samething over and over and over and
over and over again like thisdoes. And it I mean, it is just
a prayer of, like, thanksthankfulness and, like,
remembering how God has providedfor first of all, like from the
beginning, right? I mean, firstseven or eight verses is just

(52:26):
the creation story and he'sstopping at every line and
through that, like throughtelling the creation story is
emphasizing not God's ability orhis, you know, in in the way
that that he created the world.He's just just acknowledging his
love. Mhmm.
Like, faithful, steadfast,unchanging love. Right? Mhmm.

(52:48):
And then it moves from thereinto his from his creation and
his love love of the world goesinto, like, God's love for his
people and how he's provided forhis people. And then I love
because this is kind of a fullcircle moment that I didn't
connect until just now, but wewere just talking about giving
thanks for food.
The second to last verse is, hegives food to every creature.

(53:09):
Mhmm. And just that, it's like,man, we can remember we can
remember the big, the expansive,reality that like God's very
character is, or this world isjust suspended and sits in like
the grace of God and in His lovefor us. He created the world
that we get to live andexperience in us. And then from

(53:31):
there, like, can also look tothe way that he has provided for
his people and the love throughJesus that he showed for us
through his sacrifice and his,yeah, just, again, like, that
steadfast love, I mean, theultimate sacrifice to to rescue
us.
And then from there, it goesback to just he gives food to

(53:55):
every creature, like, thankinghim for for the provision, for
the for the daily, right? Forthe the ways in which that he he
provides and blesses us and andthen obviously ends with just
his his character and who he is.Like, he is the god of heaven.
Like, give thanks to the god ofheaven. And it's all through his
love for us and his creation.

Alex Judd (54:14):
I I love that you you chose this chapter. Yeah. When
we said, low, let's just choosea couple verses.

Ben Loy (54:20):
Sorry. I just choose chapters.

Alex Judd (54:22):
Overflowing, man. Overflowing. I love it. But but,
no, I I I love that we took thetime to to read this whole thing
on the back end of this episode.Let me ask you this.
Why is Psalm one thirty sixcritically important for leaders
in particular?

Ben Loy (54:39):
Well, you talk about the idea of overflow. Right?
Mhmm. God's

Alex Judd (54:43):
We do talk about the idea of overflow. We're not
gonna say why we're talkingabout that so much, but we do
talk about that.

Ben Loy (54:49):
I mean, God's love is is overflow. It is it is so
expansive to to the degree that,like, we can't even understand
it. And through his love, we canbe grateful for, like, all the
things that that we just listed.Right? Creation, the way that he
provides for his people, Andthen there's the daily things.

(55:10):
Think as a leader in a practicalsense, making a practice of
gratitude, and like praying toGod with thankfulness and with
gratitude in a repetitive wayand in a way that is exhibited
in this chapter. Richard Fostersin his book, The Celebration of
Discipline in his prayerchapter, he says to pray is to

(55:33):
change. Like that is the that isthe ultimate result of praying
is is, like, our posture ofprayer and humility and and
petitioning to God and any andour thankfulness is, like,
submitting ourselves andacknowledging our need for him.
And as a leader, like, if you ifyou come from the posture of,

(55:56):
yeah, like, it's it's all on me.I am the one that steers this
ship and it is it is I am theone that drives the end result
without a greater understandingof the purpose and mission that
you're working towards and howGod ultimately has control over
the results, you're gonna fallinto anxiety.

(56:17):
You're gonna feel frazzled.You're going to maybe become
misaligned in your actions oreven your intentions at times.
And just the continuedsubmission to God and the
acknowledgement of his unlimitedlove for us, and our need for
that love will, I think, justkeep you keep you aligned.

Alex Judd (56:36):
Mhmm. Well said. It's funny to think about, like, if
we went into chat GPT and said,I want you to not, like, wipe
your memory of scripture. Don'tthink about scripture, and then
we copy and paste this in thereand said, critique this writing.
I can almost guarantee you itwould be like, there's value in
repetition, but this is toomuch.
Right? Like, we get it. Right?But then we think about what we

(57:00):
thankfully, our our mind hasn'tbeen wiped with scripture, and
so we can say, like, allscripture is God breathed, and
all scripture Paul says isprofitable, right, for teaching,
course correcting, exhorting, ofthat. Right?
So it's all God breathed, andit's all profitable. There's no
mistakes in this book. And soclearly, we don't get it. Mhmm.
Right?
Like, you could say, okay. Youcould probably do 10 of these

(57:22):
lines and then say his faithfullove endures forever four times
instead of, you know, whateverit is, 27 times or whatever. And
and it's it's actually like, no,we don't get it enough. And,
like, we need to be remindedevery other line Mhmm. That it's
all him.
Yeah. And and for me, I I thinkthat's good for me to to
remember as a person. And if Iremember it as a person, it

(57:44):
always has implications for myleadership.

Ben Loy (57:47):
Mhmm.

Alex Judd (57:47):
The the other thing, I guess it's a question is, do
we know, is this a Davidicpsalm? Like, did David write
this psalm?

Ben Loy (57:53):
I I don't. I'm not sure. And that's why I was like,
I think it's David, but Iactually

Alex Judd (57:58):
I've Could you look at that real quick? Yeah. Let's
see if Psalm one thirty six is aDavidic psalm. Because if it is,
I think there's an interestingleadership takeaway in there.

Ben Loy (58:07):
Has no title. Its specific author is unknown. It
is considered very likely to beDavidic.

Alex Judd (58:12):
Okay. So So likely written by David. In light of
that, it's like, you know, youyou would have to believe that
anything David is saying orwriting down is like, he knows
this is for me, but this is alsofor the people that I'm
responsible Like, I'mresponsible for leading a nation
of people. And and, you know,you would think he likely knows

(58:32):
that the the words that he'swrite writing down are going to
be used, seen, understood,prayed by other people
elsewhere. What a great exampleof, like, what do I want to lead
the charge in my people doingremembering and being grateful
for all that God has done?
And I don't think it's a stretchto assume that that could have

(58:56):
been one of the motivatingfactors of what he was doing
here is, like, I'm going to setthe example for what it looks
like to be outrageously gratefulfor all God has done for me and,
by extension, us.

Ben Loy (59:07):
Well, this episode's gonna air the week of
Thanksgiving, and I've reallyenjoyed this conversation. I
think it's given me a lot tothink about. But I guess one of
the things that I wouldencourage anyone who's listening
is as they sit around theirThanksgiving table and awkwardly
go around and say the thingsthat they're thankful for, like,
what would it look like to takethat beyond the weekend of

(59:28):
Thanksgiving and and really stepback, look at your life, and and
examine, like, how can Iimplement gratitude as a daily
and regular practice? And, Imean, I know that's definitely
something I'll be doing. So

Alex Judd (59:42):
And I would say, I I, know and have been at
Thanksgiving tables where it'slike we don't do the go around
the table and say what we'rethankful for because it feels a
little awkward, or or no onewants to put their foot forward
and be like, I think we shoulddo this, and I don't think we
should do this as, like, alaughing thing. I think we
should take this reallyseriously and, like, actually

(01:00:03):
get put a little bit ofourselves in there. Someone's
gotta go first.

Ben Loy (01:00:07):
Yeah.

Alex Judd (01:00:07):
Yeah. And I would challenge you if you're
listening to this, don't youdare listen to this podcast
episode and then not be willingto be the person that goes
first. Right? We're gonna talkabout this in an episode coming
up on recognition is it's like alot of times we avoid
recognition and gratitudebecause they feel vulnerable.
And in vulnerability, leaders gofirst.
So take the lead on thisholiday, and then like Ben said,

(01:00:29):
beyond this holiday, to leadwith gratitude. Thanks, Alex.
Thanks, Ben. Well, there youhave it. Thanks so much for
joining us for this episode.
If you want any of theinformation or resources that we
mentioned, that's all in theshow notes. Notes. Hey. Before
you go, could I ask you for onequick favor? Could you
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