January 6, 2026 • 59 mins
You can’t experience true freedom without also taking responsibility. In this episode, Alex and Ben share their perspectives on what freedom and responsibility mean and explain why you can’t have one without the other. They share practical advice for anyone who thinks their freedom and responsibility are out of balance, and Alex also explains why “freedom and responsibility” is one of Path for Growth’s core values.
Information isn’t the gap between failure and success—action is. Path for Growth’s 1-on-1 coaching helps you create a plan and execute on what matters most for your business. Apply today at pathforgrowth.com/coaching.
Episode Recap:
- What is freedom, actually?
- Freedom is a gift, but we have to choose it
- Common misconceptions around responsibility
- There’s a big difference between “freedom for” and “freedom from”
- Freedom without commitment and structure is just hedonism
- Freedom and responsibility as a core value
- What would you say to someone who’s feeling stuck?
- How can freedom and responsibility transform your life?
- How to identify when freedom and responsibility are out of balance
- First steps for exploring freedom and responsibility
- What would you say to someone who’s not taking advantage of the freedom available to them?
If you’re ready to move beyond just gathering information and start executing on what truly matters, Path for Growth’s 1-on-1 coaching can help. Apply now at pathforgrowth.com/coaching.
Resources:
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Connect with our Founder Alex Judd on LinkedIn and Instagram
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ben Loy (00:02):
What's a common belief around freedom that you think is
absolute garbage?
Alex Judd (00:08):
Absolute garbage. Freedom is whatever I want to do
whenever I want to do period.End of story. Garbage is what
that is.
Ben Loy (00:21):
What would you say freedom actually is?
Alex Judd (00:23):
I like John Piper's definition, and I wouldn't
presume to be able to create abetter definition than John
Piper, so we'll we'll use his.Freedom is having the ability to
do that which will make youhappiest in a thousand years. I
I read that definition probablyfour or five years ago, and it
probably took me two or threeyears to under to understand,
(00:45):
and I maybe still don't, butthat's pretty good.
Ben Loy (00:48):
Explain that a little bit more.
Alex Judd (00:50):
So freedom is the ability to do that which will
make you happiest. So it's notthat which will make you happy.
Because if freedom is that whichwill make you happy, then
freedom is ice cream for me.Right? But you know just as well
as I do that there's a limit tothe amount of ice cream that
(01:10):
makes me feel free, and I havecrossed that limit before, and I
feel less free than I ever didin my entire life.
Right? Being a little bitexaggerative there. But it's not
just the ability to make youhappy. This this conveys a
deeper principle that there aredegrees of desire. When you say
I want something, which you istalking there?
(01:31):
And, you know, there's spiritualideas of is that the flesh
talking, or is that is that yourspirit talking, or is that the
holy spirit talking really iswhat we're talking about. And so
it's what will make youhappiest, but then in a thousand
years, conveys beliefs abouteternity, about legacy, and
(01:51):
about theology. And so what willactually matter in a thousand
years? Well, if you share mybelief system, the fact that you
glorified and loved God and thefact that you love people, and
that's basically it.
Ben Loy (02:05):
Mhmm.
Alex Judd (02:05):
Right? And so freedom then is having the ability to do
that. And what's crazy is, a lotof times, it's not that we
can't, and it's not that wewon't. It's just that we don't.
And and it's the fact that wechoose different things than
what will actually matterhappiest in a thousand years,
(02:26):
that's what makes us less freeor, I mean, to use even biblical
language, that what that is whatmakes us spiritually enslaved to
something inferior.
Ben Loy (02:36):
Mhmm. So would you say is, like, freedom a gift or is
it a choice?
Alex Judd (02:41):
Boy, you're, coming in with some philosophical
questions here. I wanna knowyour thoughts on this, but I
would say the fact that we havethe ability to choose freedom is
a gift. That's how I wouldanswer that question. But I
(03:01):
believe God even compels us tochoose freedom. Like, but by the
grace of God, I am unable tochoose freedom.
And so in some ways, everythingall the time is a gift because
if we are choosing the rightway, that in itself is a gift
from God. But the fact that wecan play a part in the role of
(03:23):
choosing is also a gift. So itis a choice, but it's all a
gift. I reject your falsedichotomy. It's both.
Landed it.
Ben Loy (03:33):
I I would say that it's I would say that it's always a
choice. But I I think whosechoice is the question.
Alex Judd (03:41):
Okay.
Ben Loy (03:42):
Like, I think if we're defining freedom through the
lens of it being a long term,yeah, if we want to take the
John Piper picture a thousandyears or just straight up from
the perspective of impact,right? Like freedom with the
purpose of creating more freedomdown the line. I would say that
like all freedom is a choice.And so like the freedom that we
(04:04):
get to experience in thiscountry exists because people
made the decision to takeresponsibility and take
ownership and make sacrifices ina way that allowed us to have
freedom. And so they choseresponsibility for our freedom
or in the context of personalaccountability and personal
(04:25):
responsibility.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you can uselike the ice cream analogy,
right? You know, you could eatan absurd amount of ice cream
and end up obese and lethargicand out of shape. And that would
greatly limit your lifespan andyour ability to live life and do
things.
Or you could make the long termdecision to give yourself more
(04:47):
freedom in the long run andexponentially That freedom could
exponentially grow by limitingyour ice cream intake and
watching our activity level. SoI but that's a choice. Right? So
I think
Alex Judd (04:58):
And do you do you believe that the choice is a
gift from God?
Ben Loy (05:04):
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Alex Judd (05:05):
Yeah. Yeah. So we're I think we're So yeah. Similar.
Yeah.
So, basically, you're saying isyou agree with me? Alright. Alex
is right. Yeah. But but I thinkthat actually connects to what
we're gonna be talking aboutsome today because if you if you
say that it's not a choice atall, then you basically abandon
any sense of the other word thatwe're going to spend a lot of
(05:26):
time on today, which isresponsibility.
Ben Loy (05:28):
Yeah. So what is responsibility? And I guess what
are some misconceptions aroundresponsibility?
Alex Judd (05:33):
I actually don't have a, like, strict functional
definition that I lean into withresponsibility, but the thing
that I always think of is theability to respond. Right?
Response ability. And it meansyou can't respond to something
you're blaming on somethingelse. Right?
I I heard someone say recently,blame. Be lame. Blame. If you
(05:57):
wanna be lame, blame. Right?
Which is memorable, to say theleast, but you you can't blame.
You can't play the role ofvictim. You can't exercise
denial and take responsibilityat the same time. They're
mutually exclusive. The minuteyou stop denying and start
owning is when you gain theability to respond, though.
(06:20):
So the act of of owning in someways or or taking responsibility
for is gaining a level of agencyin the very act.
Ben Loy (06:33):
I think a lot of people view responsibility as, I mean,
slavery in a lot of ways, right?Or limiting or oppressive. Like,
how yeah. Like, how does thatspeak into your definition of
responsibility or, really, Ithink, the accurate definition
of responsibility?
Alex Judd (06:49):
Isn't that just such a sinister deviation from truth,
I think? Because what weliterally just said is
responsibility is the ability toown what's real and and act in
accordance with what's real.
Ben Loy (07:09):
Mhmm.
Alex Judd (07:09):
Whether that's continue doing it or doing
different things to getdifferent results, all that. So
responsibility is the ability toname and see what's real and
then act in accordance orrespond to what's real. If that
is correct, I would say youcould actually fool me that that
simultaneously is a definitionof freedom. The ability to see
(07:30):
what's real and the and the theflexibility to respond to or act
differently or the same inresponse to that. Right?
In some ways, it's like it'sit's almost like it's not even
this pair. It's almost likethey're the same thing. And the
fact that we have gone soculturally astray that we're
literally like that that ourdefinition of freedom is the
(07:52):
opposite of responsibility.Mhmm. I think it's just a a
marker of how far we've missedthe mark.
Mhmm. And that we think freedomis an absence of responsibility,
and in reality, the two are sosimilar that they could actually
be defined in almost the exactway, I think.
Ben Loy (09:53):
Why do you think that is? Like, why do you think that
our our culture well, I mean, Iguess we have a country that
that sort of establishes this inin law, looks like freedom is a
right. And so I but there's acertain level of Like, I feel
like as we've continued to takesteps forward as a culture in
America, that the responsibilitywe have to steward that freedom
(10:16):
becomes less and less important.And the, like, give me my
freedom becomes more and moreimportant. Like, why why do you
think that is?
Yeah.
Alex Judd (10:24):
First of all, I'm a dummy because walking into this
conversation, I actually didn'tthink about the fact that I'm
going to be talking to someonethat served in our nation's
armed forces. And and one thingthat I know to be true is that
people who have done that viewthe word freedom differently
than other people. And so I aquestion that I wanna hear you
respond to is I'm just preppingyou. Is, like, how how has your
(10:50):
view of freedom changed as aresult of your experience there?
But before we get to that, Ithink one of the reasons to your
question why we've strayed sofar is we, or I can even say
personally at stages of my life,don't understand the difference
between freedom for and freedomfrom.
We think when we say freedom asbeing an ideal, which it is an
(11:15):
ideal, and it's a biblicalideal. It's a biblical value.
Right? It is for freedom thatyou were set free. We think that
that describes or that the idealis freedom from freedom from
commitment, freedom fromresponsibility, freedom from
rules, freedom from anythingpossibly that could tell me what
(11:37):
to do in the immediate momentright now.
We think that freedom is freedomfrom any of that. In reality,
true freedom is freedom forsomething greater. It's saying
it's not saying it's a totalabsence of commitment,
responsibilities, rules, laws,structure, discipline. It's not
at all saying it's an absence ofthat. It's saying it's an
(11:57):
intentional agency filledvoluntary adoption of the right
rules, commitments, boundaries,all of that so that I I can
operate in alignment with what Iwas actually created for
Ben Loy (12:12):
Mhmm.
Alex Judd (12:13):
Is what I would say.
Ben Loy (12:14):
Mhmm. Yeah. I I mean, I love that distinguishment. I
feel like it frames the reality,which is, I would argue, what
the Bible says about freedom andit puts it up against what our
culture currently says, like,freedom is all about.
Alex Judd (12:32):
Yeah. So I I already primed you for the question. So
I wanna get your thoughts on thequestion, and then I wanna hit
on the cultural moment thatwe're in. I'm gonna stop hitting
on the next question before thequestion that we're in. So I'm
just gonna give it to you on howhow does your view of even the
word freedom different becauseof your time as a member of the
(12:52):
Coast Guard?
Ben Loy (12:53):
You know, I mean, lot of people will say, you know,
military service is sacrificeand and and service, which it
is. Right? I don't know if, Idon't know if everyone who like
signs that dotted line andswears in has completely weighed
the implications of that untilthey're in it. Right? I think I
had enough of an understandingand maturity about the decision
(13:17):
I was making that like, I thinkI knew what I I knew the
decision that I was making atthe time, but there are a lot
more implications and you don'treally completely understand the
gravity of it until you'reyou're kind of in it.
I mean, when when you join themilitary, like you are giving up
freedom. Like you aresurrendering your freedom. You
are actually surrendering rightsthat like citizens of The United
(13:41):
States have. Like you will nolonger have those rights for the
time that you are in themilitary. And even in some
context afterwards, like you canstill be prosecuted under the
UCMJ after you separate from themilitary.
One of the things that'sinteresting is like, this is
just a really obvious example ofwhat this looks like is under
(14:02):
the UCMJ, like you can beprosecuted and even potentially
jailed for adultery. Like, it isa it is a it is an offense.
Like, it it it can get you ityou're in you can lose your
employment, like, can get kickedout of the military, you can
get, you know, other thanhonorable discharge for it. And
(14:22):
depending on the circumstancesand the nature of it, like,
yeah, you could spend some time.And that's not typically what
happens.
Like people do get kicked outfor it, but it doesn't usually
go to the extreme. But that'sjust the reality that like our
current culture, like the rightsthat we have, like you you can
do something like that in thecivilian sector and in life and
(14:46):
not deal with those the sameamount of punitive consequences
that exist in the military.Right? Like, you are literally I
mean, you are and that is oneexample of how you have you are
submitting to and removingrights that other people would
have in The in in The UnitedStates when you join the
military.
Alex Judd (15:04):
Which for me, I think that almost highlights the way
I'm kind of visualizing this is,like, there's a capital f
freedom and there's a lowercasefreedom.
Ben Loy (15:13):
Mhmm.
Alex Judd (15:14):
And you are giving up your lowercase freedoms. Right?
You don't get to decide when youwake up. You don't get to decide
what to wear. Or where you
Ben Loy (15:21):
live or what
Alex Judd (15:23):
what to eat, what your weight's gonna be. You
don't you what what's so crazy,though, is these are
theoretically the men and womenthat believe most in the the
ideal of freedom that our nationwas founded on. Right? And but
if freedom is just those things,like who I date, what I what I
(15:44):
do, I mean, quite frankly, like,with my, with my sexuality, with
my sexual life, like adultery ornot, things like that. Right?
Like, if freedom is just thosethings, those people would
never, like, opt in for that.Right? What they're really
saying is I'm actually gonnagive up some lowercase f
freedoms because I believe somuch in the overarching capital
(16:07):
letter freedom, like the idealof every person should have the
right to be able to choose to dothe things that would make them
happiest in a thousand years.Worship God, the ability to love
people, even the ability to ownproperty, things like that.
Like, they believe in thoseideals so much that they're
willing to personally sacrificepersonal inferior freedoms for
(16:30):
the higher virtue and value offreedom.
Does that is that a proper wayof thinking about it?
Ben Loy (16:35):
Yeah. Yeah. And I I think it just I I think this
conversation will continue todevelop in this direction. It
just speaks to the reality thattrue freedom comes at the price
of, like, taking responsibilityand and making the choice to
think farther than the end of,like, your nose and the desires
(16:55):
that you have in in any givenmoment. Right?
Alex Judd (16:57):
That's right. Which the the term for what you're
talking about there is hedonism.
Ben Loy (17:02):
Mhmm.
Alex Judd (17:03):
Right? Hedonism is the philosophy that life is for
pleasure, and that is anarrative that if you adopt that
life is for my immediatepleasure all the time, It's so
weird. We we get convinced thatthat is what freedom is, and we
get, like, thoroughly convincedthat that's what freedom is. And
(17:23):
you become a slave to your mostimmediate desires is what you
become. Mhmm.
Is whatever you feel moststrongly about at that time is
what you become a slave to tothe point where we see how bad
choices become bad habits, badhabits become addictions. And, I
(17:45):
mean, if if you have known orever been an addict, enslavement
is the proper word. Like, thatis what actual addiction is.
It's wanting more and more ofsomething that works less and
less. Mhmm.
And what's wild, though, is thatI don't know if it's unique to
our time, but what I do know iswe live in a time where it is so
(18:08):
easy to be convinced thatfreedom is total absence of
stricture commitments, rules,regulations, discipline,
structure at all. And that ishedonism.
Ben Loy (18:18):
Yeah. So freedom and responsibility is one of our
core values at Path4Growth. I Iwould like to dive into a
conversation of, yeah, why didyou choose that and, like, how
has that played out in thebusiness?
Alex Judd (18:33):
Yeah. That will be less of a philosophical
discussion and more of apragmatic discussion because the
more time we've spent with thislanguage of freedom and
responsibility, the more we Ipersonally have learned about
the philosophical ramificationsof it. I could not have had the
discussion that we just had fiveyears ago. I'm I still quite
frankly struggle to have it nowbecause I can I can picture it,
(18:56):
and I and I feel like I'veactually experienced the
relationship between the two?But even to explain the
philosophy can be reallychallenging and really
difficult.
So if we're talking about thepractical side of it,
practically, where it came aboutwas I'll never forget. I I was
sitting in Eagle River, Alaska,and I had gotten on a work
(19:20):
meeting at, like I mean, it itwas like I got on a work meeting
at 5AM that day because I was onAlaska time. Right? And I was
meeting with someone on the EastCoast, and so I got in a meeting
at 5AM. And then after that, I Ihad, like, a long breakfast with
friends, and then I went for arun, and then I came back and
(19:40):
did some more work.
And then I took a nap, and thenI went for another run. I did a
little bit more work before theend of the day, and then I
wrapped up and went to an earlydinner with friends. And then in
Alaska, it, like, stays light inthe summer. It's always light.
Right?
And so I think we went for ahike at, like, 10PM, and and
(20:01):
that was, like, one of my daysin Alaska. Right? And I just
remember being, that was soawesome. And then just thinking,
like, it would suck to employpeople and and for me as a
business owner to be like, I getto do that, but you don't get to
do that. And I just kinda askedmyself, well, why is it that I
get to do that?
Is it just because I own equityin the business? Is that why I
(20:24):
get to do that? And what Irecognized is, no, the reason
why I get to do that is becauseI'm willing to live with the
consequences and benefits ofdoing those things. Like, I was
basically saying, this is howI'm going to spend my day. And
if in the process of spending myday this way, I end up losing
customers or I end up missing adeadline or I end up not
(20:50):
communicating the way I wassupposed to communicate, you
know, in response to, you know,a message that I had received or
something like that or thebusiness a decision isn't made
and so the business slows down.
I kind of said, I'm willing tolive with the ramifications of
those things occurring, but thereason why I'm doing this is
because I don't think thosethings are are going to occur
(21:11):
because I've takenresponsibility for those things.
And so what I recognized in thatmoment is, man, the reason why I
can have such wonderful days,wonderful, full, very unorthodox
days like I had that day inAlaska was because I was willing
to take responsibility for theassociated consequences and
(21:34):
benefits associated with it andfor the decisions that I was
making. And that that I didn'thave the language at that time,
but what I realized is, well, ifthat's available to me, I think
we can make that available toeveryone. And then I said, well,
why shouldn't we try? And sothat's where we ended up with
the core value of freedom andresponsibility.
Ben Loy (21:54):
And how does that play out practically and, like like,
our PTO policy? Just shed somelight on what that looks like
within the business?
Alex Judd (22:02):
I honestly think it's just a reflection of reality,
and it's just a reflection ofwhat it looks like that's
actually true, which is everyoneis self employed all the time.
People think I employ them. Idon't employ them. Everyone is
self employed all the time, andthat is true for every employee
ever because, like, you aregoing to have to live with the
consequences or benefits of youractions. It's just sometime we
have this bureaucraticorganization that shields people
(22:24):
from that.
I think what we are good aboutin our organization is we just
say, man, I want you toexperience a whole lot of
freedom. I want you to be ableto decide when and for how long
your family should go onvacation. I want you to be able
to decide, you know, how muchtime you take off. I want you to
(22:45):
be able to decide when you'regonna start work. I want you to
be able to decide that if wehave an in person experience and
it was just like an all outsprint for seventy two hours
that you're gonna take the nextMonday off.
I want you to be able to decidehow much time you're gonna have
off for Christmas versusThanksgiving versus spring
break. I want you to have all ofthat freedom because I want to
(23:06):
have all that freedom andbecause I think you do have all
freedom. But to take advantageof that freedom, what do you
have to take that I cannot takefor you? Responsibility. You
have to take responsibility forthe results that you are
uniquely responsible for gettingto make this a viable and
growing business.
You are responsible for makingsure you communicate well ahead
(23:29):
of time so that you being goneisn't creating unnecessary work
or hardship for the other peoplethat you're supposed to be
collaborating with. Right?You've got to take
responsibility for the customersthat you're meeting with over
the course of that week or thatmonth and them making decisions
about whether or not they wantto continue working with you or
not based on your decisions thatyou're making with your time.
(23:52):
Those are just a few examples.Right?
But as long as you're down totake that responsibility, you
should get and do get toexperience that freedom because
the two go hand in hand.
Ben Loy (24:03):
Is there a a time or a story you have for, yeah, like
what that's looked like and whenthat played out well for a team
member?
Alex Judd (24:11):
Olivia on our team drafted her maternity plan the
last time she had a child, andshe said, this is what I want to
do and this is how I'm going tomake it a win for the business.
That is extremely unorthodox.Right? That fits in alignment
with the the culture of what wewanted to create. And and the
thing is is, like, I'm actuallydown for anyone doing that
(24:33):
paternity or maternity.
Right? But I want everyone onour team to take responsibility
to do exactly what I had to dowhenever I had our first
daughter, whenever Aspen and Ihad our first daughter, which
was how much time do I want totake? What are the ramifications
of me taking that time? And howcan I solve for those
(24:54):
ramifications in such a way thatit's like the business doesn't
even take a hit? The businessactually even grows while I'm
gone.
Ben Loy (25:00):
Mhmm.
Alex Judd (25:01):
And and what does that require? It requires a lot
of forethought, a lot ofplanning, a lot of
communication, a lot ofpersuasion and influence. It
can't be just something like,hey. I decided the week before
that I'm gonna take a month anda half off and experience that
freedom, and so now I'm gonnascramble to take responsibility.
That will not work.
(25:22):
Right? Because what we are allresponsible for is if we wanna
be absent for a period of time,how does this thing not just not
just base level sustain? Howdoes this thing grow while I'm
gone? And it could be thatyou're like, man, I can't be off
for six months and that happenedright now. Like, I'm I'm I
haven't yet created the systemswhere that can occur.
(25:43):
Probably means that you eitherneed to take responsibility in a
different way. Right? Meaning,like, maybe I I take some unpaid
time off or something like that.Or maybe you need to say, like,
I I need to not take six monthsoff. I need to take three months
off or x y z.
Right? So I think that's oneexample. It applies a lot to
vacations. It applies a lot tohow people request time off. I
(26:07):
don't like people asking me,hey, can I take this day off?
I like them telling me, hey. I'mtaking this day off because here
here was my plan for the day,and here's what I'm doing
instead of that plan or thingslike that, or here's how I'm
solving to make it a win for theteam as a whole. I think what
we're always looking for is anability to take responsibility
(26:27):
in a way that's a win for theindividual, a win for the team,
and a win for the customers. Andif we can find a way to take
responsibility and that it's anactual win in all those areas,
then the freedom associated withthat is almost, like,
indistinguishable from theresponsibility.
Ben Loy (26:43):
Mhmm. So you've you've talked about how responsibility
(27:49):
with Path for Growth and withthe team makes room for time
off, vacation, whatever. I I Iknow that your view of freedom
goes far beyond that and andyour yeah, your belief in this
core value goes beyond that. Canyou explain that a little bit?
Alex Judd (28:06):
I mean, it actually ties in lot to what we talked
about for maybe the firstfifteen minutes of this podcast,
which is my biggest goal for thepeople that work on our team is
not for them to just experiencethe incredible benefit that is
unlimited PTO or for them to belike, I can eat a long breakfast
today with my kiddos or for themto even be like, I get to go to
(28:29):
the gym in the middle of theday. Right? That's not my
greatest goal for the peoplethat work on our team. My
greatest goal for the peoplethat work on our team is that
they deeply understand andbelieve in the inextricable link
between freedom andresponsibility. Because taking a
long breakfast can make yourmorning better.
(28:50):
Understanding the link betweenthose two virtues will make your
life better. And I think ifwisdom is competence with regard
to the realities of life andthat when we operate in the lane
of wisdom, we're going with thegrain of the universe, then what
I think we experience is, man,this is a lot of work. It is way
more work to experience morefreedom. Right? It because it's
(29:13):
way more work to take moreresponsibility, but it's actual
life.
Mhmm. It's not like you'reliving with some bureaucratic
umbrella that shields you fromthe consequences or benefits of
your own decisions. It's like, II actually get to live with the
consequences and benefits of mydecisions and how I use my time.
And I I don't get to blameanyone else for how I'm using my
(29:36):
time. I just get to seize all ofthe opportunity associated with
taking responsibility.
Ben Loy (29:43):
If someone's, like, listening to this podcast and
maybe they feel stuck and that'smaybe they're in a job or a
career that they, like, don'tsee a lot of upward trajectory
in, maybe they feel stuck intheir business, like they don't
they don't know where they cangrow, want to grow, maybe they
feel limited in their ability ortheir resources to do that. What
(30:07):
would you say to them as itpertains to freedom and
responsibility? You gottachange. And
Alex Judd (30:12):
that's either you've gotta change or you've gotta
change. Right? And so, you know,I knew someone a while back that
just every single time we wouldget together, he would complain
to me about his job for the samereasons. And at a certain point,
(30:32):
you are the one that keepsdeciding to show up. And so
you've gotta say, is this anattitude problem that I want to
keep working here?
So you are freely making thatdecision. So you need to take
responsibility for having theright attitude to work at the
place that you want to work. Ordo you want to take the risk of
going to do something else, andthat's what you're freely doing,
(30:53):
and you're gonna chain takeresponsibility for changing that
way. But to the degree youchronically keep showing up the
same way to the same thing andgetting negative results and
then complaining about it, yousacrifice your ability to
complain anymore because youhave the freedom to choose. This
is what's so crazy is when youadopt a tragedy narrative, you
(31:15):
start talking like someone thatlives in a tyrannical
dictatorship.
And praise God, none of us do.And I guarantee you that if you
do, there's no way they'reletting you listen to what
you're listening to right nowbecause it's the antithesis of
everything that stands for. Andso you don't live in that, so
(31:36):
you get to choose. But the thingthat we so often do is we tell
ourselves, I don't have any say.This is all related to
circumstance.
It's all related to what someoneelse is doing. It's all related
to my boss. It's all related tothe structure of the world or
the structure of thisorganization or the structure of
how things have worked out. Andthe minute you say that, you
(31:59):
will not feel free because youare not free because you have
chosen to give all of yourfreedom away.
Ben Loy (32:04):
Yeah. I mean, because taking responsibility implies
that or it it is often followedby making decisions that are
gonna make you uncomfortable.Yeah.
Alex Judd (32:14):
And so we avoid it. Right? Or making commitments.
Yep. Yeah.
And that's where it's yeah. It'ssuch a it's such a garbage trash
lie that we think freedomoperates opposed to or polarized
from commitments. Right? I loveDavid Brooks' definition, and he
says commitment is when you fallin love with something to such a
degree that you put structurearound it for the times when you
(32:35):
no longer feel in love with it.I mean, you and I both know
people that have been marriedfor twenty five years and would
say, praise god.
That's the greatest blessing ofmy life. And if I look at that
person and I say, so that meansthat person feel like staying
married every day for twentyfive years. Incorrect. Right?
(32:56):
No.
They chose to stay marriedbecause they believed in the
capital f freedom more than theybelieved in the lowercase
freedom of me just doing what Iwant whenever I want how I want.
Ben Loy (33:08):
Do you have any fun stories about yeah. Maybe maybe
an area where you experiencedthis to play out in a way that
was either unexpected or maybejust, yeah, really drove home
this this belief in freedom andresponsibility.
Alex Judd (33:24):
Yeah. I like that you say fun stories. That's that
probably Ben's way of beinglike, this has been a little
intense. Let's say let's use afun story. Yeah.
Sure. I mean, there were so manytimes early on in the business
where it was almost like I hadto realize, like, oh, I can do
this. And this still happens tome. Right? It was gosh, what was
(33:45):
it?
Two days ago, it was 11:00, andI was at the gym, and I had just
finished a a brutal 1,500workout, which is my idea of a
good time. And then I read abook in the sauna and cold
plunged back and forth for alittle bit. And then I went into
the steam room and I had somethoughts about what the theme
(34:05):
for our next, experience in theTri State area in New York would
be, and I documented some ideasaround that theme. And on the
drive back, I was like, Iliterally can't believe this is
my life. Like, this is calledTuesday is what this is.
And and and it's honestly, it'sa gift for me that, like, our
team members can experience thesame type of thing. And that I
(34:26):
think it would be good for us tohave a discussion with about,
like, how this applies indifferent types of
organizations. But because it'ssuch a core value for me, we've
made it a core value of theorganization, and we have made
intentional decisions about howwe structure the organization so
that our team members can havethe availability to be able to
do that type of thing.
Ben Loy (34:46):
Yeah. You just played out that situation of you at the
gym. What are the decisions thatyou made or that you have made
previously to make that areality?
Alex Judd (34:57):
Yeah. A lot of things. I don't do stuff like
that if the business is in badshape. If we are churning
customers, if if we have teammembers that, like, aren't doing
well. Right?
That's not to say that I won'tgo to the gym because that's
part of like personalmaintenance and vitality, but
(35:17):
I'm probably not gonna do thefull on cold plunge sauna back
and forth steam room like
Ben Loy (35:22):
In the middle of the day.
Alex Judd (35:23):
I'm not gonna do the whole car wash. Right? Is what
what I'm saying. Right? But butso it's like there's a whole
host of decisions associatedwith putting the business in the
position where we're we're we'rehappy and healthy right now.
Team members are doing reallywell right now. We've got
opportunity on the horizon.We're growing the business. So I
I think that I and Michelle, whooperates as my assistant, we
(35:46):
take pretty extreme ownershipover my calendar and and
scheduling out my the resultsthat I'm responsible for pretty
effectively. And so I'mresponsible for vision of the
business, culture of the team,profitability of the business,
the leadership team being led,managed, and held accountable.
Right? Those are myresponsibilities. And right now,
(36:08):
the the last time I read yellowgreen notes, I was green in all
of those areas. Right? And soit's like, well, part of that
is, okay, well, because I'mwinning in the areas that I need
to be winning, I I can, in goodconscious, experience more
freedom associated with that.
So I think that's another piecethat really, really matters. I
(36:28):
think a good standard to adoptis, like, just an internal
standard of stewardship and,like, am I doing my best?
Because if you're not doing yourbest, there will be a moment
where you're in the sauna andyou're like, I'm really enjoying
this, and you will get floodedwith guilt, and you won't be
able to counter that guilt withanything because you're not
doing your best. And so and I'veexperienced that before. I think
(36:52):
we're in a season right nowwhere, man, when I'm working,
I'm working extremely hard.
And I am and I can in goodconscience say, am I doing my
best? It doesn't mean that I'mnot, you know, in the middle of
my second set of bench press,and then I think to myself,
should I be doing this rightnow? I could be working right
now. I do have those doubts, butthen what I am able to counter
(37:12):
those doubts with is I amworking for the glory of God. I
am doing my best, and I am greenin the results that matter.
And I can say in good consciencethat I am taking responsibility
for the things that he's givenme to steward and be responsible
for. And so I can do set threeon the bench press is what I
would say. So those are a a fewof the different things that go
into being able to experience amorning like that morning.
Ben Loy (37:37):
What's a way that someone could maybe identify,
like, maybe do a do an audit onthemselves of where they're
lacking in this in their life,whether it's personally,
professionally, in their role,at work, in their business?
Alex Judd (37:51):
Where they're lacking in freedom or in responsibility
or both? Both.
Ben Loy (37:54):
Yeah. Or or, yeah, maybe maybe finding, doing an
audit of of, yeah, what does thebalance between those things
look like in each of thesecategories?
Alex Judd (38:02):
Well, I guess some questions I I would ask people
is, do you feel like you'rebecoming more of the person that
you were created to be? Not justthe worker, but the person. Do
you constantly feel like you'renot doing enough? What are the
results that matter most foryou, and are you attending to
those areas? What are the thingsthat you've been uniquely given
(38:25):
to steward and exercise selfcontrol over, and are you
attending to those areas?
And I think that last one isactually really worth hitting
home on. Like, what do youactually want? And I'm not I'm
talking all caps lock want.People often become a slave to
(38:46):
their business when they feellike they have to do things that
they don't actually want to do.But in reality, they haven't
clarified what they actuallywant.
And the minute we start toclarify what we actually want,
man, I I wanna be I wanna have athriving relationship with the
God who created me. I I wanna bea really faithful husband. I
(39:11):
wanna be a strong and presentfather. I wanna be a pillar of
my community. I wanna bephysically active and and
really, really healthy.
The minute we clarify that wewant those things, and I wanna
be a professional leader andprofessional communicator.
Right? Those are all statementsthat I'm saying yes to. And the
minute we're saying yes to thosethings, there are there are
(39:34):
boundaries and methods andcommitments that we can make to
become more of those things. Andthose boundaries, methods, and
commitments represent theresponsibility that we have to
take to experience holisticfreedom.
And so what what often happensis people say, I want this, but
(39:55):
but they want the freedom andthey don't want the
responsibility. If you want thefreedom, take the freedom. Just
also take the responsibilityassociated with it because what
I had to learn is it's allwildly available to you. You
really run into issues the moreyou say, I just wish I could.
Or, man, it would just beawesome if I it's like, you can.
(40:17):
You just have to realize thatyou can and you have to be
willing to accept that there'sresponsibilities associated with
any goal outcome desire that youchoose to pursue.
Ben Loy (40:27):
If freedom is saying yes to things, responsibility,
it sounds like, is often sayingno to a lot of other things.
Like choosing what you're forimplies that you're going to be
eliminating or saying no to alot of things that you, in the
now, like, might want to say yesto.
Alex Judd (40:46):
Yeah. That's interesting. I certainly think
that especially it starts thatway. What you know as well as
anyone is that, like, theresponsibility itself feels like
freedom the more you say yes toit. Right?
And and, you know, as aChristian, it's like operating
in alignment with God'sboundaries becomes not this,
(41:10):
like, burden that it's like, oh,I have to do this. Right? It
more becomes like this blessingthat I was created to delight
in. But the first times we doit, it I mean, it very much is
going to the gym for the firsttime, and it sucks. Right?
Because it's like, this isoperating out of alignment with
my habits, my comfort zone, myautomatic, my default. And that
(41:31):
feels uncomfortable. It feelsdisjointed. I feel weak doing
it. But the more I do it, notonly do I get better at it, I
actually enjoy it.
And then it becomes incorporatedinto the person that I am. And
and so in that way, theresponsibility becomes part of
the person that you are, andthat's just such a joy, I think.
Ben Loy (41:52):
Mhmm. Why does it feel like often, like, the action
that you take in the first,let's say like, let's just pick
the gym or working out orrunning or something physically
active, because I feel like it'san easy analogy. Why does it
always feel so painful,especially in those beginning
weeks? And then six months downthe line, it's almost an
(42:12):
identity.
Alex Judd (42:13):
I don't know if it it really fully gets to the answer
of the question, but the imagethat I have in in my head is
this morning. It's starting toget a little cold in Arizona,
which praise God. And let's bevery real here, cold in Arizona
is like low sixties, right? Butit's starting to get a little
bit cold in Arizona. So I wakeup in the morning now and it's
(42:36):
like the blanket feels so good.
Like, it feels so good to beunder the blanket, to be like,
it's dark. It's it's Right? Likeand everything outside of the
blanket feels totally wrong,totally antithetical to, like,
what I lowercase want in thismoment. And so it's in that
(43:01):
moment that I have a choice.Right?
Am I gonna leave what's known,what's familiar, what's
comfortable, what I lowercasewant for what I capital w want.
Which what what do I want? Man,I wanna have some genuine time
in prayer and scripture beforeLily gets out of bed in the
(43:22):
morning. Man, I I capital wwant, like, to move my body a
little bit by going for a walk.I capital w want to drink my
greens before I drink coffee.
I I capital w want to do 52 pushups so that my blood is flowing
before before I start my day.And that way, I approach
everything else that I do in theday with a greater sense of
(43:43):
energy. And it's like the warbetween those two things. And
the lowercase w is always louderin the moment unless I can
conjure a vision of what thecapital w actually is. Unless I
can literally see myself notonly just doing those things,
but experiencing the benefit andthe gift of those things.
(44:06):
And so to go to your question, Ithink what we so often struggle
with is capturing a vision forwhat we capital w want. And so
we settle for the really loud,man, the blankets and the covers
feel so good right now. Andfaced with discomfort, pain,
(44:28):
unfamiliar, all of that, or whatfeels really good right now, we
just say I'm gonna opt in forwhat feels really good right
now.
Ben Loy (44:36):
We're wired very differently because I sprung out
of bed this morning. Well,that's good, man.
Alex Judd (44:41):
That's good. That was not me this morning. That
probably had something to dowith Lily's sleeping routine
last But yeah.
Ben Loy (44:49):
You talked about like, yeah, inputs or desires being
really loud. It made me think oflike in rescue summer school
when you're on the bottom of apool, like holding your breath,
your heart rate is high. And Imean, you have to actively and
continually make the decision tonot rise to the surface to
breathe because you have alonger vision of where you want
(45:12):
to go and that would bequitting. That would be the
antithesis of the direction youwant to go. But I mean, it's so
visceral in that moment becauseyour body is like screaming, you
know, for air at that time.
But then the reality is thatlike, if you ever have like
pushed yourself in that area,like in breath work, in holding
(45:33):
your breath underwater, like youactually can go much, much, much
farther than you think you canif you just find some resolve
and just like continue onforward. Like the point at which
you think you're gonna pass outis so much farther than what it
feels like in the moment.
Alex Judd (45:52):
It's so interesting that we live in a time right now
that like I mean, it's at leaston my feed, it seems like the
singular most popular topic forcontent creators is do hard
things, like some version of dohard things. And everyone is
presenting it as like theirrevolutionary message that's
original to them that they'relike, I'm gonna let you in onto
(46:13):
the secret, do hard things. ButI think what it is reflective of
I think it's really good thatit's as popularized as it is.
Right? I think it's comical thatwe present it as an original
idea, but that's beside thepoint.
But I I think what that'sreflective of is we are all
looking for ways to trainourselves against immediate
(46:36):
gratification in a world whereimmediate gratification is more
accessible than it's ever been.Mhmm. And when we find those
means and manners of practicingand training ourselves to resist
that, we, like, wanna share itwith people, and we want other
people to get in on the goal. Ithink that's what's going on
there, And I think it's directlyrelated to the relationship
(46:59):
we're talking about with freedomand responsibility.
Ben Loy (47:01):
How would you recommend someone, I guess, start
exploring this? And in my ownpersonal life, I feel like I
have understood this bestprofessionally when I was
experiencing it personally,whether that's through fitness
and like accomplishing fitnessgoals or other areas like just
(47:22):
personal development and, habit,you know, habit stacking, habit
building? Like, what do youthink is a good first step for
someone to take as it pertainsto freedom and responsibility?
Alex Judd (47:37):
I I would say spend genuine time prayerfully
answering the question, what doyou want in a given time frame?
And maybe that time frame, ifyou're if you're very new to
this and you don't feel like youhave much agency right now, is
what do you want by the end ofthis week? Maybe it's what do
you want six months from now?Maybe it's what do you want
(47:58):
three years from now? Right?
I I would if you're new to thisline of thinking, I would start
with what do you want even bythe end of this day or this
week. What do you want in agiven time frame? And then ask
yourself and list it, what isthe responsibility that that
demands of me? What is theresponsibility that that demands
(48:20):
of me? And it will tell youthings about your money, about
your time, about your energy,about your relationships.
If you really honestly answerthat question, you will get or
if you ask that question, youwill get answers. And seek and
you shall find. Write down thoseanswers. And then ask yourself,
am I willing to take thatresponsibility? And and even
(48:43):
that is an act of freedombecause you have the ability to
say yes or no to that question.
You you wrote what you reallywant theoretically. At that
point, it's just theory. Youwrote what it's gonna take, and
now you're asking yourself thequestion that is a freedom
question. Do I actually wantthis? Am I willing to take the
(49:04):
responsibility?
And what's so cool about thatquestion is even if you say no,
you are still exercisingfreedom. Even if you recognize
here's everything that it'sgonna take to get what I
supposedly want, I'm not willingto do that, then what you're
basically saying is I am freelydeciding that I don't actually
want that. But then you arereleased from the burden that
(49:26):
you are putting your on yourselfof saying that you want things
you don't actually want, which Ithink is actually an incredible
weight that people carry aroundwith them. So just to review the
questions you're asking, what doyou actually want in a given
time frame? What is theresponsibility that demands from
you?
And are you willing to take thatresponsibility?
Ben Loy (49:46):
Was there ever a time, where in hindsight you were
like, you may yeah. Maybe I leana little too hard into freedom
on this one.
Alex Judd (49:56):
Oh, goodness. I'm sure. Well, you know, I say I'm
sure. I actually think that mythe thing that I've had to grow
in more is that there's morefreedom available to me than
than I often take advantage of.Like, I I and that, I think, is
something that I'm I'mcontinuing to learn and grow in
is I operate my default isscarcity.
(50:18):
Mhmm. And there's not enough,and I can't be doing this right
now. And so the thing that I'veoften had to lean into is, oh, I
can actually do this. Right? Ihave received advice from people
that given the resources andtalent and sheer amount of
content and reach that wecurrently have, path for growth
is playing small ball.
(50:39):
People have told me that. And Ithink that's reflective of, man,
we are actually taking moreresponsibility than freedom
we're allowing ourselves toexperience. And in some ways,
have to take responsibility forthe freedom too. And that's
actually a critical part of it.So I know it's not a direct
answer to your question, but Ithink I'm more actually over
index on the opposite, notrealizing how free we actually
(51:02):
are.
Ben Loy (51:02):
Talk a little more about that because I do think
while while our culture leansreally hard into into comfort,
then yeah, like freedom, theimmediate, I do think there's
also a subcategory, especiallyin our culture right now. I
think Alex Hermosy is likesomeone who I think of who
exhibits this really well. Iwould say he is an
overcorrection of responsibilityor like, yeah, like the point of
(51:26):
life is to suffer and to buildand like, and that's it, right?
Like, grind, grind, grind,grind. Don't experience any
freedom.
Yeah. And while I don't thinkyou are that extreme, what
you're saying is you leaninternally that direction. So
Mhmm. If you could say somethingto yourself five years ago on
(51:50):
this subject of responsibility,what would it be?
Alex Judd (51:54):
You keep making excuses for why you can't do
things you can actually do. Andthe reason why you're making
those excuses is because you'reafraid to take on the
responsibility of actually doingthem. Mhmm. Thanks for asking
that question because I think Icould experience this same thing
(52:14):
today. Right?
Is I often see that people don'tthey think they don't want the
freedom, or they I guess they dowant the freedom. I did want the
freedom, but I was really afraidof the responsibility and that I
wouldn't be able to take it. Andso, therefore, I lived in this
weird middle ground where Ididn't experience the freedom,
(52:37):
but I wished I could. Mhmm. ButI was actually actively making
decisions not to experience it.
I just think there is moreavailable to us than we often
realize. And not only that, themessage that I needed to hear is
it is not inherently immoral orprideful to want those things
(53:03):
and then to genuinely pursuethem in a way that loves people
and glorifies God.
Ben Loy (53:09):
And
Alex Judd (53:10):
that actually when you do that and you delight in
doing that, God is glorified andother people are served, and you
end up taking on moreresponsibility, and that's a
good thing. Yeah. You know? I Ithink of John 15 I think it's
John 15. Abide in me.
I I am the vine. You are thebranches. Right? And, for if you
(53:34):
abide in me, you will bear muchfruit. It was really helpful for
me to to read through that andthen realize what does bear
mean?
You will bear much fruit. Ialways read that as abide in me
and you will bear much fruit.That means you will produce a
bunch of fruit. There will a lotof a lot of good things that
(53:57):
come from the work that you do.And certainly production is part
of bearing.
But what bear actually means isyou will be able to hold the
weight of. Right? Abide in mebecause if you abide in me, you
will be able to hold the weightof a whole lot of fruit. I read
that as like, if you lean intome, stay connected to me, depend
on me, look to me as your sourceand your provision, you will be
(54:20):
able to hold the weight of a lotof responsibility. And that is a
really, really, really goodthing.
And we shouldn't shirk that. Weshould praise God for that and
delight in it.
Ben Loy (54:32):
Yeah. I don't think we really touched on on it until
just now, but it it really islike an expansive or an
expanding concept. Like, whenwhen you navigate this well and
you and you use your yourfreedom and your free will to
take on more responsibility,like, that in turn creates more
(54:52):
opportunity and more fruit. Andthen it continues to if you
steward it well, like, continuesto grow and to expand.
Alex Judd (55:00):
And that's the I'm so grateful that you said that
because I think a lot of ourcore values don't compete with
each other. They complement eachother. Mhmm. And I think freedom
and responsibility runs rampantunless it's not also paired with
strength is for service.
Ben Loy (55:18):
Mhmm.
Alex Judd (55:19):
Right? Like, we are incredibly blessed to be able to
be strong, to takeresponsibility, and to
experience great freedom. And,man, it is such a strength and
such a gift and such a blessingthat that I've had my eyes and
we collectively have our had oureyes open to this reality of how
the world works that when wetake responsibility, we get
(55:39):
freedom. What is strength for?It's for service.
Right? And so how do we usethat? We don't use this to
basically just bolster upbolster up our own lifestyles
and basically orient everythingwith regard to our work around
my personal comfort zone, thatis actually defeating the
purpose of what we're talkingabout.
Ben Loy (55:59):
The
Alex Judd (56:00):
reason why we are strong in freedom and
responsibility is so that we canserve other people. And that's
why it exists, and andultimately, it exists so that we
can glorify God. And that's theoverarching principle behind all
of this is it's all submitted tothat aim because freedom for the
sake of freedom isn't freedom atall.
Ben Loy (56:19):
Mean, it just makes me think of Jesus. It's like what
it I mean, Jesus took theresponsibility for us so that we
could experience freedom. Right?And I mean, if our calling is to
reflect him in that way, like,yeah, it's really pointless to
be pursuing this with themindset of like, oh yeah, just
want to build up and kind ofcounterintuitive to go, oh, I
(56:42):
want to pursue moreresponsibility and navigate this
wall so that I can create morecomfort around my own life. It's
like, no.
This is for this is for theservice and the the benefit of
the people around you, thepeople that are in your life.
Alex Judd (56:53):
Yeah. I mean, Garden Of Gethsemane. Right? Jesus,
what do you want? A capital wwant to be smack dab in the
center of the father's will.
Ben Loy (57:04):
Mhmm.
Alex Judd (57:05):
What do you lowercase w want? I really want that if
there's any other way, like, wedo that because I really don't
wanna do this. But he made thedecision that the the actual
want, the deepest desire, thespirit was going to conquer the
flesh in that moment. And, wow,praise God that that's our
(57:26):
example and that that's what wehave to follow.
Ben Loy (57:29):
If you wanted someone listening to this episode to
take away one thing or to hearone thing, what would it be?
Alex Judd (57:36):
There is so much available to you. You have you
have no idea how much isavailable to you, but it will
always demand that you takeresponsibility. Thanks, Alex.
Thanks, Ben. Well, there youhave it.
Thanks so much for joining usfor this episode. If you want
any of the information orresources that we mentioned,
(57:57):
that's all in the show notes.Hey. Before you go, could I ask
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(58:17):
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Go to pathforgrowth.com to getmore information about our
(58:39):
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Y'all know this. We're rootingfor you.
(58:59):
We're praying for you. We wannasee you win. Remember, my
strength is not for me. Yourstrength is not for you. Our
strength is for service.
Let's go. Let's go. Let's go.
What's a common belief around freedom that you think is
absolute garbage?
Alex Judd (00:08):
Absolute garbage. Freedom is whatever I want to do
whenever I want to do period.End of story. Garbage is what
that is.
Ben Loy (00:21):
What would you say freedom actually is?
Alex Judd (00:23):
I like John Piper's definition, and I wouldn't
presume to be able to create abetter definition than John
Piper, so we'll we'll use his.Freedom is having the ability to
do that which will make youhappiest in a thousand years. I
I read that definition probablyfour or five years ago, and it
probably took me two or threeyears to under to understand,
(00:45):
and I maybe still don't, butthat's pretty good.
Ben Loy (00:48):
Explain that a little bit more.
Alex Judd (00:50):
So freedom is the ability to do that which will
make you happiest. So it's notthat which will make you happy.
Because if freedom is that whichwill make you happy, then
freedom is ice cream for me.Right? But you know just as well
as I do that there's a limit tothe amount of ice cream that
(01:10):
makes me feel free, and I havecrossed that limit before, and I
feel less free than I ever didin my entire life.
Right? Being a little bitexaggerative there. But it's not
just the ability to make youhappy. This this conveys a
deeper principle that there aredegrees of desire. When you say
I want something, which you istalking there?
(01:31):
And, you know, there's spiritualideas of is that the flesh
talking, or is that is that yourspirit talking, or is that the
holy spirit talking really iswhat we're talking about. And so
it's what will make youhappiest, but then in a thousand
years, conveys beliefs abouteternity, about legacy, and
(01:51):
about theology. And so what willactually matter in a thousand
years? Well, if you share mybelief system, the fact that you
glorified and loved God and thefact that you love people, and
that's basically it.
Ben Loy (02:05):
Mhmm.
Alex Judd (02:05):
Right? And so freedom then is having the ability to do
that. And what's crazy is, a lotof times, it's not that we
can't, and it's not that wewon't. It's just that we don't.
And and it's the fact that wechoose different things than
what will actually matterhappiest in a thousand years,
(02:26):
that's what makes us less freeor, I mean, to use even biblical
language, that what that is whatmakes us spiritually enslaved to
something inferior.
Ben Loy (02:36):
Mhmm. So would you say is, like, freedom a gift or is
it a choice?
Alex Judd (02:41):
Boy, you're, coming in with some philosophical
questions here. I wanna knowyour thoughts on this, but I
would say the fact that we havethe ability to choose freedom is
a gift. That's how I wouldanswer that question. But I
(03:01):
believe God even compels us tochoose freedom. Like, but by the
grace of God, I am unable tochoose freedom.
And so in some ways, everythingall the time is a gift because
if we are choosing the rightway, that in itself is a gift
from God. But the fact that wecan play a part in the role of
(03:23):
choosing is also a gift. So itis a choice, but it's all a
gift. I reject your falsedichotomy. It's both.
Landed it.
Ben Loy (03:33):
I I would say that it's I would say that it's always a
choice. But I I think whosechoice is the question.
Alex Judd (03:41):
Okay.
Ben Loy (03:42):
Like, I think if we're defining freedom through the
lens of it being a long term,yeah, if we want to take the
John Piper picture a thousandyears or just straight up from
the perspective of impact,right? Like freedom with the
purpose of creating more freedomdown the line. I would say that
like all freedom is a choice.And so like the freedom that we
(04:04):
get to experience in thiscountry exists because people
made the decision to takeresponsibility and take
ownership and make sacrifices ina way that allowed us to have
freedom. And so they choseresponsibility for our freedom
or in the context of personalaccountability and personal
(04:25):
responsibility.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you can uselike the ice cream analogy,
right? You know, you could eatan absurd amount of ice cream
and end up obese and lethargicand out of shape. And that would
greatly limit your lifespan andyour ability to live life and do
things.
Or you could make the long termdecision to give yourself more
(04:47):
freedom in the long run andexponentially That freedom could
exponentially grow by limitingyour ice cream intake and
watching our activity level. SoI but that's a choice. Right? So
I think
Alex Judd (04:58):
And do you do you believe that the choice is a
gift from God?
Ben Loy (05:04):
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Alex Judd (05:05):
Yeah. Yeah. So we're I think we're So yeah. Similar.
Yeah.
So, basically, you're saying isyou agree with me? Alright. Alex
is right. Yeah. But but I thinkthat actually connects to what
we're gonna be talking aboutsome today because if you if you
say that it's not a choice atall, then you basically abandon
any sense of the other word thatwe're going to spend a lot of
(05:26):
time on today, which isresponsibility.
Ben Loy (05:28):
Yeah. So what is responsibility? And I guess what
are some misconceptions aroundresponsibility?
Alex Judd (05:33):
I actually don't have a, like, strict functional
definition that I lean into withresponsibility, but the thing
that I always think of is theability to respond. Right?
Response ability. And it meansyou can't respond to something
you're blaming on somethingelse. Right?
I I heard someone say recently,blame. Be lame. Blame. If you
(05:57):
wanna be lame, blame. Right?
Which is memorable, to say theleast, but you you can't blame.
You can't play the role ofvictim. You can't exercise
denial and take responsibilityat the same time. They're
mutually exclusive. The minuteyou stop denying and start
owning is when you gain theability to respond, though.
(06:20):
So the act of of owning in someways or or taking responsibility
for is gaining a level of agencyin the very act.
Ben Loy (06:33):
I think a lot of people view responsibility as, I mean,
slavery in a lot of ways, right?Or limiting or oppressive. Like,
how yeah. Like, how does thatspeak into your definition of
responsibility or, really, Ithink, the accurate definition
of responsibility?
Alex Judd (06:49):
Isn't that just such a sinister deviation from truth,
I think? Because what weliterally just said is
responsibility is the ability toown what's real and and act in
accordance with what's real.
Ben Loy (07:09):
Mhmm.
Alex Judd (07:09):
Whether that's continue doing it or doing
different things to getdifferent results, all that. So
responsibility is the ability toname and see what's real and
then act in accordance orrespond to what's real. If that
is correct, I would say youcould actually fool me that that
simultaneously is a definitionof freedom. The ability to see
(07:30):
what's real and the and the theflexibility to respond to or act
differently or the same inresponse to that. Right?
In some ways, it's like it'sit's almost like it's not even
this pair. It's almost likethey're the same thing. And the
fact that we have gone soculturally astray that we're
literally like that that ourdefinition of freedom is the
(07:52):
opposite of responsibility.Mhmm. I think it's just a a
marker of how far we've missedthe mark.
Mhmm. And that we think freedomis an absence of responsibility,
and in reality, the two are sosimilar that they could actually
be defined in almost the exactway, I think.
Ben Loy (09:53):
Why do you think that is? Like, why do you think that
our our culture well, I mean, Iguess we have a country that
that sort of establishes this inin law, looks like freedom is a
right. And so I but there's acertain level of Like, I feel
like as we've continued to takesteps forward as a culture in
America, that the responsibilitywe have to steward that freedom
(10:16):
becomes less and less important.And the, like, give me my
freedom becomes more and moreimportant. Like, why why do you
think that is?
Yeah.
Alex Judd (10:24):
First of all, I'm a dummy because walking into this
conversation, I actually didn'tthink about the fact that I'm
going to be talking to someonethat served in our nation's
armed forces. And and one thingthat I know to be true is that
people who have done that viewthe word freedom differently
than other people. And so I aquestion that I wanna hear you
respond to is I'm just preppingyou. Is, like, how how has your
(10:50):
view of freedom changed as aresult of your experience there?
But before we get to that, Ithink one of the reasons to your
question why we've strayed sofar is we, or I can even say
personally at stages of my life,don't understand the difference
between freedom for and freedomfrom.
We think when we say freedom asbeing an ideal, which it is an
(11:15):
ideal, and it's a biblicalideal. It's a biblical value.
Right? It is for freedom thatyou were set free. We think that
that describes or that the idealis freedom from freedom from
commitment, freedom fromresponsibility, freedom from
rules, freedom from anythingpossibly that could tell me what
(11:37):
to do in the immediate momentright now.
We think that freedom is freedomfrom any of that. In reality,
true freedom is freedom forsomething greater. It's saying
it's not saying it's a totalabsence of commitment,
responsibilities, rules, laws,structure, discipline. It's not
at all saying it's an absence ofthat. It's saying it's an
(11:57):
intentional agency filledvoluntary adoption of the right
rules, commitments, boundaries,all of that so that I I can
operate in alignment with what Iwas actually created for
Ben Loy (12:12):
Mhmm.
Alex Judd (12:13):
Is what I would say.
Ben Loy (12:14):
Mhmm. Yeah. I I mean, I love that distinguishment. I
feel like it frames the reality,which is, I would argue, what
the Bible says about freedom andit puts it up against what our
culture currently says, like,freedom is all about.
Alex Judd (12:32):
Yeah. So I I already primed you for the question. So
I wanna get your thoughts on thequestion, and then I wanna hit
on the cultural moment thatwe're in. I'm gonna stop hitting
on the next question before thequestion that we're in. So I'm
just gonna give it to you on howhow does your view of even the
word freedom different becauseof your time as a member of the
(12:52):
Coast Guard?
Ben Loy (12:53):
You know, I mean, lot of people will say, you know,
military service is sacrificeand and and service, which it
is. Right? I don't know if, Idon't know if everyone who like
signs that dotted line andswears in has completely weighed
the implications of that untilthey're in it. Right? I think I
had enough of an understandingand maturity about the decision
(13:17):
I was making that like, I thinkI knew what I I knew the
decision that I was making atthe time, but there are a lot
more implications and you don'treally completely understand the
gravity of it until you'reyou're kind of in it.
I mean, when when you join themilitary, like you are giving up
freedom. Like you aresurrendering your freedom. You
are actually surrendering rightsthat like citizens of The United
(13:41):
States have. Like you will nolonger have those rights for the
time that you are in themilitary. And even in some
context afterwards, like you canstill be prosecuted under the
UCMJ after you separate from themilitary.
One of the things that'sinteresting is like, this is
just a really obvious example ofwhat this looks like is under
(14:02):
the UCMJ, like you can beprosecuted and even potentially
jailed for adultery. Like, it isa it is a it is an offense.
Like, it it it can get you ityou're in you can lose your
employment, like, can get kickedout of the military, you can
get, you know, other thanhonorable discharge for it. And
(14:22):
depending on the circumstancesand the nature of it, like,
yeah, you could spend some time.And that's not typically what
happens.
Like people do get kicked outfor it, but it doesn't usually
go to the extreme. But that'sjust the reality that like our
current culture, like the rightsthat we have, like you you can
do something like that in thecivilian sector and in life and
(14:46):
not deal with those the sameamount of punitive consequences
that exist in the military.Right? Like, you are literally I
mean, you are and that is oneexample of how you have you are
submitting to and removingrights that other people would
have in The in in The UnitedStates when you join the
military.
Alex Judd (15:04):
Which for me, I think that almost highlights the way
I'm kind of visualizing this is,like, there's a capital f
freedom and there's a lowercasefreedom.
Ben Loy (15:13):
Mhmm.
Alex Judd (15:14):
And you are giving up your lowercase freedoms. Right?
You don't get to decide when youwake up. You don't get to decide
what to wear. Or where you
Ben Loy (15:21):
live or what
Alex Judd (15:23):
what to eat, what your weight's gonna be. You
don't you what what's so crazy,though, is these are
theoretically the men and womenthat believe most in the the
ideal of freedom that our nationwas founded on. Right? And but
if freedom is just those things,like who I date, what I what I
(15:44):
do, I mean, quite frankly, like,with my, with my sexuality, with
my sexual life, like adultery ornot, things like that. Right?
Like, if freedom is just thosethings, those people would
never, like, opt in for that.Right? What they're really
saying is I'm actually gonnagive up some lowercase f
freedoms because I believe somuch in the overarching capital
(16:07):
letter freedom, like the idealof every person should have the
right to be able to choose to dothe things that would make them
happiest in a thousand years.Worship God, the ability to love
people, even the ability to ownproperty, things like that.
Like, they believe in thoseideals so much that they're
willing to personally sacrificepersonal inferior freedoms for
(16:30):
the higher virtue and value offreedom.
Does that is that a proper wayof thinking about it?
Ben Loy (16:35):
Yeah. Yeah. And I I think it just I I think this
conversation will continue todevelop in this direction. It
just speaks to the reality thattrue freedom comes at the price
of, like, taking responsibilityand and making the choice to
think farther than the end of,like, your nose and the desires
(16:55):
that you have in in any givenmoment. Right?
Alex Judd (16:57):
That's right. Which the the term for what you're
talking about there is hedonism.
Ben Loy (17:02):
Mhmm.
Alex Judd (17:03):
Right? Hedonism is the philosophy that life is for
pleasure, and that is anarrative that if you adopt that
life is for my immediatepleasure all the time, It's so
weird. We we get convinced thatthat is what freedom is, and we
get, like, thoroughly convincedthat that's what freedom is. And
(17:23):
you become a slave to your mostimmediate desires is what you
become. Mhmm.
Is whatever you feel moststrongly about at that time is
what you become a slave to tothe point where we see how bad
choices become bad habits, badhabits become addictions. And, I
(17:45):
mean, if if you have known orever been an addict, enslavement
is the proper word. Like, thatis what actual addiction is.
It's wanting more and more ofsomething that works less and
less. Mhmm.
And what's wild, though, is thatI don't know if it's unique to
our time, but what I do know iswe live in a time where it is so
(18:08):
easy to be convinced thatfreedom is total absence of
stricture commitments, rules,regulations, discipline,
structure at all. And that ishedonism.
Ben Loy (18:18):
Yeah. So freedom and responsibility is one of our
core values at Path4Growth. I Iwould like to dive into a
conversation of, yeah, why didyou choose that and, like, how
has that played out in thebusiness?
Alex Judd (18:33):
Yeah. That will be less of a philosophical
discussion and more of apragmatic discussion because the
more time we've spent with thislanguage of freedom and
responsibility, the more we Ipersonally have learned about
the philosophical ramificationsof it. I could not have had the
discussion that we just had fiveyears ago. I'm I still quite
frankly struggle to have it nowbecause I can I can picture it,
(18:56):
and I and I feel like I'veactually experienced the
relationship between the two?But even to explain the
philosophy can be reallychallenging and really
difficult.
So if we're talking about thepractical side of it,
practically, where it came aboutwas I'll never forget. I I was
sitting in Eagle River, Alaska,and I had gotten on a work
(19:20):
meeting at, like I mean, it itwas like I got on a work meeting
at 5AM that day because I was onAlaska time. Right? And I was
meeting with someone on the EastCoast, and so I got in a meeting
at 5AM. And then after that, I Ihad, like, a long breakfast with
friends, and then I went for arun, and then I came back and
(19:40):
did some more work.
And then I took a nap, and thenI went for another run. I did a
little bit more work before theend of the day, and then I
wrapped up and went to an earlydinner with friends. And then in
Alaska, it, like, stays light inthe summer. It's always light.
Right?
And so I think we went for ahike at, like, 10PM, and and
(20:01):
that was, like, one of my daysin Alaska. Right? And I just
remember being, that was soawesome. And then just thinking,
like, it would suck to employpeople and and for me as a
business owner to be like, I getto do that, but you don't get to
do that. And I just kinda askedmyself, well, why is it that I
get to do that?
Is it just because I own equityin the business? Is that why I
(20:24):
get to do that? And what Irecognized is, no, the reason
why I get to do that is becauseI'm willing to live with the
consequences and benefits ofdoing those things. Like, I was
basically saying, this is howI'm going to spend my day. And
if in the process of spending myday this way, I end up losing
customers or I end up missing adeadline or I end up not
(20:50):
communicating the way I wassupposed to communicate, you
know, in response to, you know,a message that I had received or
something like that or thebusiness a decision isn't made
and so the business slows down.
I kind of said, I'm willing tolive with the ramifications of
those things occurring, but thereason why I'm doing this is
because I don't think thosethings are are going to occur
(21:11):
because I've takenresponsibility for those things.
And so what I recognized in thatmoment is, man, the reason why I
can have such wonderful days,wonderful, full, very unorthodox
days like I had that day inAlaska was because I was willing
to take responsibility for theassociated consequences and
(21:34):
benefits associated with it andfor the decisions that I was
making. And that that I didn'thave the language at that time,
but what I realized is, well, ifthat's available to me, I think
we can make that available toeveryone. And then I said, well,
why shouldn't we try? And sothat's where we ended up with
the core value of freedom andresponsibility.
Ben Loy (21:54):
And how does that play out practically and, like like,
our PTO policy? Just shed somelight on what that looks like
within the business?
Alex Judd (22:02):
I honestly think it's just a reflection of reality,
and it's just a reflection ofwhat it looks like that's
actually true, which is everyoneis self employed all the time.
People think I employ them. Idon't employ them. Everyone is
self employed all the time, andthat is true for every employee
ever because, like, you aregoing to have to live with the
consequences or benefits of youractions. It's just sometime we
have this bureaucraticorganization that shields people
(22:24):
from that.
I think what we are good aboutin our organization is we just
say, man, I want you toexperience a whole lot of
freedom. I want you to be ableto decide when and for how long
your family should go onvacation. I want you to be able
to decide, you know, how muchtime you take off. I want you to
(22:45):
be able to decide when you'regonna start work. I want you to
be able to decide that if wehave an in person experience and
it was just like an all outsprint for seventy two hours
that you're gonna take the nextMonday off.
I want you to be able to decidehow much time you're gonna have
off for Christmas versusThanksgiving versus spring
break. I want you to have all ofthat freedom because I want to
(23:06):
have all that freedom andbecause I think you do have all
freedom. But to take advantageof that freedom, what do you
have to take that I cannot takefor you? Responsibility. You
have to take responsibility forthe results that you are
uniquely responsible for gettingto make this a viable and
growing business.
You are responsible for makingsure you communicate well ahead
(23:29):
of time so that you being goneisn't creating unnecessary work
or hardship for the other peoplethat you're supposed to be
collaborating with. Right?You've got to take
responsibility for the customersthat you're meeting with over
the course of that week or thatmonth and them making decisions
about whether or not they wantto continue working with you or
not based on your decisions thatyou're making with your time.
(23:52):
Those are just a few examples.Right?
But as long as you're down totake that responsibility, you
should get and do get toexperience that freedom because
the two go hand in hand.
Ben Loy (24:03):
Is there a a time or a story you have for, yeah, like
what that's looked like and whenthat played out well for a team
member?
Alex Judd (24:11):
Olivia on our team drafted her maternity plan the
last time she had a child, andshe said, this is what I want to
do and this is how I'm going tomake it a win for the business.
That is extremely unorthodox.Right? That fits in alignment
with the the culture of what wewanted to create. And and the
thing is is, like, I'm actuallydown for anyone doing that
(24:33):
paternity or maternity.
Right? But I want everyone onour team to take responsibility
to do exactly what I had to dowhenever I had our first
daughter, whenever Aspen and Ihad our first daughter, which
was how much time do I want totake? What are the ramifications
of me taking that time? And howcan I solve for those
(24:54):
ramifications in such a way thatit's like the business doesn't
even take a hit? The businessactually even grows while I'm
gone.
Ben Loy (25:00):
Mhmm.
Alex Judd (25:01):
And and what does that require? It requires a lot
of forethought, a lot ofplanning, a lot of
communication, a lot ofpersuasion and influence. It
can't be just something like,hey. I decided the week before
that I'm gonna take a month anda half off and experience that
freedom, and so now I'm gonnascramble to take responsibility.
That will not work.
(25:22):
Right? Because what we are allresponsible for is if we wanna
be absent for a period of time,how does this thing not just not
just base level sustain? Howdoes this thing grow while I'm
gone? And it could be thatyou're like, man, I can't be off
for six months and that happenedright now. Like, I'm I'm I
haven't yet created the systemswhere that can occur.
(25:43):
Probably means that you eitherneed to take responsibility in a
different way. Right? Meaning,like, maybe I I take some unpaid
time off or something like that.Or maybe you need to say, like,
I I need to not take six monthsoff. I need to take three months
off or x y z.
Right? So I think that's oneexample. It applies a lot to
vacations. It applies a lot tohow people request time off. I
(26:07):
don't like people asking me,hey, can I take this day off?
I like them telling me, hey. I'mtaking this day off because here
here was my plan for the day,and here's what I'm doing
instead of that plan or thingslike that, or here's how I'm
solving to make it a win for theteam as a whole. I think what
we're always looking for is anability to take responsibility
(26:27):
in a way that's a win for theindividual, a win for the team,
and a win for the customers. Andif we can find a way to take
responsibility and that it's anactual win in all those areas,
then the freedom associated withthat is almost, like,
indistinguishable from theresponsibility.
Ben Loy (26:43):
Mhmm. So you've you've talked about how responsibility
(27:49):
with Path for Growth and withthe team makes room for time
off, vacation, whatever. I I Iknow that your view of freedom
goes far beyond that and andyour yeah, your belief in this
core value goes beyond that. Canyou explain that a little bit?
Alex Judd (28:06):
I mean, it actually ties in lot to what we talked
about for maybe the firstfifteen minutes of this podcast,
which is my biggest goal for thepeople that work on our team is
not for them to just experiencethe incredible benefit that is
unlimited PTO or for them to belike, I can eat a long breakfast
today with my kiddos or for themto even be like, I get to go to
(28:29):
the gym in the middle of theday. Right? That's not my
greatest goal for the peoplethat work on our team. My
greatest goal for the peoplethat work on our team is that
they deeply understand andbelieve in the inextricable link
between freedom andresponsibility. Because taking a
long breakfast can make yourmorning better.
(28:50):
Understanding the link betweenthose two virtues will make your
life better. And I think ifwisdom is competence with regard
to the realities of life andthat when we operate in the lane
of wisdom, we're going with thegrain of the universe, then what
I think we experience is, man,this is a lot of work. It is way
more work to experience morefreedom. Right? It because it's
(29:13):
way more work to take moreresponsibility, but it's actual
life.
Mhmm. It's not like you'reliving with some bureaucratic
umbrella that shields you fromthe consequences or benefits of
your own decisions. It's like, II actually get to live with the
consequences and benefits of mydecisions and how I use my time.
And I I don't get to blameanyone else for how I'm using my
(29:36):
time. I just get to seize all ofthe opportunity associated with
taking responsibility.
Ben Loy (29:43):
If someone's, like, listening to this podcast and
maybe they feel stuck and that'smaybe they're in a job or a
career that they, like, don'tsee a lot of upward trajectory
in, maybe they feel stuck intheir business, like they don't
they don't know where they cangrow, want to grow, maybe they
feel limited in their ability ortheir resources to do that. What
(30:07):
would you say to them as itpertains to freedom and
responsibility? You gottachange. And
Alex Judd (30:12):
that's either you've gotta change or you've gotta
change. Right? And so, you know,I knew someone a while back that
just every single time we wouldget together, he would complain
to me about his job for the samereasons. And at a certain point,
(30:32):
you are the one that keepsdeciding to show up. And so
you've gotta say, is this anattitude problem that I want to
keep working here?
So you are freely making thatdecision. So you need to take
responsibility for having theright attitude to work at the
place that you want to work. Ordo you want to take the risk of
going to do something else, andthat's what you're freely doing,
(30:53):
and you're gonna chain takeresponsibility for changing that
way. But to the degree youchronically keep showing up the
same way to the same thing andgetting negative results and
then complaining about it, yousacrifice your ability to
complain anymore because youhave the freedom to choose. This
is what's so crazy is when youadopt a tragedy narrative, you
(31:15):
start talking like someone thatlives in a tyrannical
dictatorship.
And praise God, none of us do.And I guarantee you that if you
do, there's no way they'reletting you listen to what
you're listening to right nowbecause it's the antithesis of
everything that stands for. Andso you don't live in that, so
(31:36):
you get to choose. But the thingthat we so often do is we tell
ourselves, I don't have any say.This is all related to
circumstance.
It's all related to what someoneelse is doing. It's all related
to my boss. It's all related tothe structure of the world or
the structure of thisorganization or the structure of
how things have worked out. Andthe minute you say that, you
(31:59):
will not feel free because youare not free because you have
chosen to give all of yourfreedom away.
Ben Loy (32:04):
Yeah. I mean, because taking responsibility implies
that or it it is often followedby making decisions that are
gonna make you uncomfortable.Yeah.
Alex Judd (32:14):
And so we avoid it. Right? Or making commitments.
Yep. Yeah.
And that's where it's yeah. It'ssuch a it's such a garbage trash
lie that we think freedomoperates opposed to or polarized
from commitments. Right? I loveDavid Brooks' definition, and he
says commitment is when you fallin love with something to such a
degree that you put structurearound it for the times when you
(32:35):
no longer feel in love with it.I mean, you and I both know
people that have been marriedfor twenty five years and would
say, praise god.
That's the greatest blessing ofmy life. And if I look at that
person and I say, so that meansthat person feel like staying
married every day for twentyfive years. Incorrect. Right?
(32:56):
No.
They chose to stay marriedbecause they believed in the
capital f freedom more than theybelieved in the lowercase
freedom of me just doing what Iwant whenever I want how I want.
Ben Loy (33:08):
Do you have any fun stories about yeah. Maybe maybe
an area where you experiencedthis to play out in a way that
was either unexpected or maybejust, yeah, really drove home
this this belief in freedom andresponsibility.
Alex Judd (33:24):
Yeah. I like that you say fun stories. That's that
probably Ben's way of beinglike, this has been a little
intense. Let's say let's use afun story. Yeah.
Sure. I mean, there were so manytimes early on in the business
where it was almost like I hadto realize, like, oh, I can do
this. And this still happens tome. Right? It was gosh, what was
(33:45):
it?
Two days ago, it was 11:00, andI was at the gym, and I had just
finished a a brutal 1,500workout, which is my idea of a
good time. And then I read abook in the sauna and cold
plunged back and forth for alittle bit. And then I went into
the steam room and I had somethoughts about what the theme
(34:05):
for our next, experience in theTri State area in New York would
be, and I documented some ideasaround that theme. And on the
drive back, I was like, Iliterally can't believe this is
my life. Like, this is calledTuesday is what this is.
And and and it's honestly, it'sa gift for me that, like, our
team members can experience thesame type of thing. And that I
(34:26):
think it would be good for us tohave a discussion with about,
like, how this applies indifferent types of
organizations. But because it'ssuch a core value for me, we've
made it a core value of theorganization, and we have made
intentional decisions about howwe structure the organization so
that our team members can havethe availability to be able to
do that type of thing.
Ben Loy (34:46):
Yeah. You just played out that situation of you at the
gym. What are the decisions thatyou made or that you have made
previously to make that areality?
Alex Judd (34:57):
Yeah. A lot of things. I don't do stuff like
that if the business is in badshape. If we are churning
customers, if if we have teammembers that, like, aren't doing
well. Right?
That's not to say that I won'tgo to the gym because that's
part of like personalmaintenance and vitality, but
(35:17):
I'm probably not gonna do thefull on cold plunge sauna back
and forth steam room like
Ben Loy (35:22):
In the middle of the day.
Alex Judd (35:23):
I'm not gonna do the whole car wash. Right? Is what
what I'm saying. Right? But butso it's like there's a whole
host of decisions associatedwith putting the business in the
position where we're we're we'rehappy and healthy right now.
Team members are doing reallywell right now. We've got
opportunity on the horizon.We're growing the business. So I
I think that I and Michelle, whooperates as my assistant, we
(35:46):
take pretty extreme ownershipover my calendar and and
scheduling out my the resultsthat I'm responsible for pretty
effectively. And so I'mresponsible for vision of the
business, culture of the team,profitability of the business,
the leadership team being led,managed, and held accountable.
Right? Those are myresponsibilities. And right now,
(36:08):
the the last time I read yellowgreen notes, I was green in all
of those areas. Right? And soit's like, well, part of that
is, okay, well, because I'mwinning in the areas that I need
to be winning, I I can, in goodconscious, experience more
freedom associated with that.
So I think that's another piecethat really, really matters. I
(36:28):
think a good standard to adoptis, like, just an internal
standard of stewardship and,like, am I doing my best?
Because if you're not doing yourbest, there will be a moment
where you're in the sauna andyou're like, I'm really enjoying
this, and you will get floodedwith guilt, and you won't be
able to counter that guilt withanything because you're not
doing your best. And so and I'veexperienced that before. I think
(36:52):
we're in a season right nowwhere, man, when I'm working,
I'm working extremely hard.
And I am and I can in goodconscience say, am I doing my
best? It doesn't mean that I'mnot, you know, in the middle of
my second set of bench press,and then I think to myself,
should I be doing this rightnow? I could be working right
now. I do have those doubts, butthen what I am able to counter
(37:12):
those doubts with is I amworking for the glory of God. I
am doing my best, and I am greenin the results that matter.
And I can say in good consciencethat I am taking responsibility
for the things that he's givenme to steward and be responsible
for. And so I can do set threeon the bench press is what I
would say. So those are a a fewof the different things that go
into being able to experience amorning like that morning.
Ben Loy (37:37):
What's a way that someone could maybe identify,
like, maybe do a do an audit onthemselves of where they're
lacking in this in their life,whether it's personally,
professionally, in their role,at work, in their business?
Alex Judd (37:51):
Where they're lacking in freedom or in responsibility
or both? Both.
Ben Loy (37:54):
Yeah. Or or, yeah, maybe maybe finding, doing an
audit of of, yeah, what does thebalance between those things
look like in each of thesecategories?
Alex Judd (38:02):
Well, I guess some questions I I would ask people
is, do you feel like you'rebecoming more of the person that
you were created to be? Not justthe worker, but the person. Do
you constantly feel like you'renot doing enough? What are the
results that matter most foryou, and are you attending to
those areas? What are the thingsthat you've been uniquely given
(38:25):
to steward and exercise selfcontrol over, and are you
attending to those areas?
And I think that last one isactually really worth hitting
home on. Like, what do youactually want? And I'm not I'm
talking all caps lock want.People often become a slave to
(38:46):
their business when they feellike they have to do things that
they don't actually want to do.But in reality, they haven't
clarified what they actuallywant.
And the minute we start toclarify what we actually want,
man, I I wanna be I wanna have athriving relationship with the
God who created me. I I wanna bea really faithful husband. I
(39:11):
wanna be a strong and presentfather. I wanna be a pillar of
my community. I wanna bephysically active and and
really, really healthy.
The minute we clarify that wewant those things, and I wanna
be a professional leader andprofessional communicator.
Right? Those are all statementsthat I'm saying yes to. And the
minute we're saying yes to thosethings, there are there are
(39:34):
boundaries and methods andcommitments that we can make to
become more of those things. Andthose boundaries, methods, and
commitments represent theresponsibility that we have to
take to experience holisticfreedom.
And so what what often happensis people say, I want this, but
(39:55):
but they want the freedom andthey don't want the
responsibility. If you want thefreedom, take the freedom. Just
also take the responsibilityassociated with it because what
I had to learn is it's allwildly available to you. You
really run into issues the moreyou say, I just wish I could.
Or, man, it would just beawesome if I it's like, you can.
(40:17):
You just have to realize thatyou can and you have to be
willing to accept that there'sresponsibilities associated with
any goal outcome desire that youchoose to pursue.
Ben Loy (40:27):
If freedom is saying yes to things, responsibility,
it sounds like, is often sayingno to a lot of other things.
Like choosing what you're forimplies that you're going to be
eliminating or saying no to alot of things that you, in the
now, like, might want to say yesto.
Alex Judd (40:46):
Yeah. That's interesting. I certainly think
that especially it starts thatway. What you know as well as
anyone is that, like, theresponsibility itself feels like
freedom the more you say yes toit. Right?
And and, you know, as aChristian, it's like operating
in alignment with God'sboundaries becomes not this,
(41:10):
like, burden that it's like, oh,I have to do this. Right? It
more becomes like this blessingthat I was created to delight
in. But the first times we doit, it I mean, it very much is
going to the gym for the firsttime, and it sucks. Right?
Because it's like, this isoperating out of alignment with
my habits, my comfort zone, myautomatic, my default. And that
(41:31):
feels uncomfortable. It feelsdisjointed. I feel weak doing
it. But the more I do it, notonly do I get better at it, I
actually enjoy it.
And then it becomes incorporatedinto the person that I am. And
and so in that way, theresponsibility becomes part of
the person that you are, andthat's just such a joy, I think.
Ben Loy (41:52):
Mhmm. Why does it feel like often, like, the action
that you take in the first,let's say like, let's just pick
the gym or working out orrunning or something physically
active, because I feel like it'san easy analogy. Why does it
always feel so painful,especially in those beginning
weeks? And then six months downthe line, it's almost an
(42:12):
identity.
Alex Judd (42:13):
I don't know if it it really fully gets to the answer
of the question, but the imagethat I have in in my head is
this morning. It's starting toget a little cold in Arizona,
which praise God. And let's bevery real here, cold in Arizona
is like low sixties, right? Butit's starting to get a little
bit cold in Arizona. So I wakeup in the morning now and it's
(42:36):
like the blanket feels so good.
Like, it feels so good to beunder the blanket, to be like,
it's dark. It's it's Right? Likeand everything outside of the
blanket feels totally wrong,totally antithetical to, like,
what I lowercase want in thismoment. And so it's in that
(43:01):
moment that I have a choice.Right?
Am I gonna leave what's known,what's familiar, what's
comfortable, what I lowercasewant for what I capital w want.
Which what what do I want? Man,I wanna have some genuine time
in prayer and scripture beforeLily gets out of bed in the
(43:22):
morning. Man, I I capital wwant, like, to move my body a
little bit by going for a walk.I capital w want to drink my
greens before I drink coffee.
I I capital w want to do 52 pushups so that my blood is flowing
before before I start my day.And that way, I approach
everything else that I do in theday with a greater sense of
(43:43):
energy. And it's like the warbetween those two things. And
the lowercase w is always louderin the moment unless I can
conjure a vision of what thecapital w actually is. Unless I
can literally see myself notonly just doing those things,
but experiencing the benefit andthe gift of those things.
(44:06):
And so to go to your question, Ithink what we so often struggle
with is capturing a vision forwhat we capital w want. And so
we settle for the really loud,man, the blankets and the covers
feel so good right now. Andfaced with discomfort, pain,
(44:28):
unfamiliar, all of that, or whatfeels really good right now, we
just say I'm gonna opt in forwhat feels really good right
now.
Ben Loy (44:36):
We're wired very differently because I sprung out
of bed this morning. Well,that's good, man.
Alex Judd (44:41):
That's good. That was not me this morning. That
probably had something to dowith Lily's sleeping routine
last But yeah.
Ben Loy (44:49):
You talked about like, yeah, inputs or desires being
really loud. It made me think oflike in rescue summer school
when you're on the bottom of apool, like holding your breath,
your heart rate is high. And Imean, you have to actively and
continually make the decision tonot rise to the surface to
breathe because you have alonger vision of where you want
(45:12):
to go and that would bequitting. That would be the
antithesis of the direction youwant to go. But I mean, it's so
visceral in that moment becauseyour body is like screaming, you
know, for air at that time.
But then the reality is thatlike, if you ever have like
pushed yourself in that area,like in breath work, in holding
(45:33):
your breath underwater, like youactually can go much, much, much
farther than you think you canif you just find some resolve
and just like continue onforward. Like the point at which
you think you're gonna pass outis so much farther than what it
feels like in the moment.
Alex Judd (45:52):
It's so interesting that we live in a time right now
that like I mean, it's at leaston my feed, it seems like the
singular most popular topic forcontent creators is do hard
things, like some version of dohard things. And everyone is
presenting it as like theirrevolutionary message that's
original to them that they'relike, I'm gonna let you in onto
(46:13):
the secret, do hard things. ButI think what it is reflective of
I think it's really good thatit's as popularized as it is.
Right? I think it's comical thatwe present it as an original
idea, but that's beside thepoint.
But I I think what that'sreflective of is we are all
looking for ways to trainourselves against immediate
(46:36):
gratification in a world whereimmediate gratification is more
accessible than it's ever been.Mhmm. And when we find those
means and manners of practicingand training ourselves to resist
that, we, like, wanna share itwith people, and we want other
people to get in on the goal. Ithink that's what's going on
there, And I think it's directlyrelated to the relationship
(46:59):
we're talking about with freedomand responsibility.
Ben Loy (47:01):
How would you recommend someone, I guess, start
exploring this? And in my ownpersonal life, I feel like I
have understood this bestprofessionally when I was
experiencing it personally,whether that's through fitness
and like accomplishing fitnessgoals or other areas like just
(47:22):
personal development and, habit,you know, habit stacking, habit
building? Like, what do youthink is a good first step for
someone to take as it pertainsto freedom and responsibility?
Alex Judd (47:37):
I I would say spend genuine time prayerfully
answering the question, what doyou want in a given time frame?
And maybe that time frame, ifyou're if you're very new to
this and you don't feel like youhave much agency right now, is
what do you want by the end ofthis week? Maybe it's what do
you want six months from now?Maybe it's what do you want
(47:58):
three years from now? Right?
I I would if you're new to thisline of thinking, I would start
with what do you want even bythe end of this day or this
week. What do you want in agiven time frame? And then ask
yourself and list it, what isthe responsibility that that
demands of me? What is theresponsibility that that demands
(48:20):
of me? And it will tell youthings about your money, about
your time, about your energy,about your relationships.
If you really honestly answerthat question, you will get or
if you ask that question, youwill get answers. And seek and
you shall find. Write down thoseanswers. And then ask yourself,
am I willing to take thatresponsibility? And and even
(48:43):
that is an act of freedombecause you have the ability to
say yes or no to that question.
You you wrote what you reallywant theoretically. At that
point, it's just theory. Youwrote what it's gonna take, and
now you're asking yourself thequestion that is a freedom
question. Do I actually wantthis? Am I willing to take the
(49:04):
responsibility?
And what's so cool about thatquestion is even if you say no,
you are still exercisingfreedom. Even if you recognize
here's everything that it'sgonna take to get what I
supposedly want, I'm not willingto do that, then what you're
basically saying is I am freelydeciding that I don't actually
want that. But then you arereleased from the burden that
(49:26):
you are putting your on yourselfof saying that you want things
you don't actually want, which Ithink is actually an incredible
weight that people carry aroundwith them. So just to review the
questions you're asking, what doyou actually want in a given
time frame? What is theresponsibility that demands from
you?
And are you willing to take thatresponsibility?
Ben Loy (49:46):
Was there ever a time, where in hindsight you were
like, you may yeah. Maybe I leana little too hard into freedom
on this one.
Alex Judd (49:56):
Oh, goodness. I'm sure. Well, you know, I say I'm
sure. I actually think that mythe thing that I've had to grow
in more is that there's morefreedom available to me than
than I often take advantage of.Like, I I and that, I think, is
something that I'm I'mcontinuing to learn and grow in
is I operate my default isscarcity.
(50:18):
Mhmm. And there's not enough,and I can't be doing this right
now. And so the thing that I'veoften had to lean into is, oh, I
can actually do this. Right? Ihave received advice from people
that given the resources andtalent and sheer amount of
content and reach that wecurrently have, path for growth
is playing small ball.
(50:39):
People have told me that. And Ithink that's reflective of, man,
we are actually taking moreresponsibility than freedom
we're allowing ourselves toexperience. And in some ways,
have to take responsibility forthe freedom too. And that's
actually a critical part of it.So I know it's not a direct
answer to your question, but Ithink I'm more actually over
index on the opposite, notrealizing how free we actually
(51:02):
are.
Ben Loy (51:02):
Talk a little more about that because I do think
while while our culture leansreally hard into into comfort,
then yeah, like freedom, theimmediate, I do think there's
also a subcategory, especiallyin our culture right now. I
think Alex Hermosy is likesomeone who I think of who
exhibits this really well. Iwould say he is an
overcorrection of responsibilityor like, yeah, like the point of
(51:26):
life is to suffer and to buildand like, and that's it, right?
Like, grind, grind, grind,grind. Don't experience any
freedom.
Yeah. And while I don't thinkyou are that extreme, what
you're saying is you leaninternally that direction. So
Mhmm. If you could say somethingto yourself five years ago on
(51:50):
this subject of responsibility,what would it be?
Alex Judd (51:54):
You keep making excuses for why you can't do
things you can actually do. Andthe reason why you're making
those excuses is because you'reafraid to take on the
responsibility of actually doingthem. Mhmm. Thanks for asking
that question because I think Icould experience this same thing
(52:14):
today. Right?
Is I often see that people don'tthey think they don't want the
freedom, or they I guess they dowant the freedom. I did want the
freedom, but I was really afraidof the responsibility and that I
wouldn't be able to take it. Andso, therefore, I lived in this
weird middle ground where Ididn't experience the freedom,
(52:37):
but I wished I could. Mhmm. ButI was actually actively making
decisions not to experience it.
I just think there is moreavailable to us than we often
realize. And not only that, themessage that I needed to hear is
it is not inherently immoral orprideful to want those things
(53:03):
and then to genuinely pursuethem in a way that loves people
and glorifies God.
Ben Loy (53:09):
And
Alex Judd (53:10):
that actually when you do that and you delight in
doing that, God is glorified andother people are served, and you
end up taking on moreresponsibility, and that's a
good thing. Yeah. You know? I Ithink of John 15 I think it's
John 15. Abide in me.
I I am the vine. You are thebranches. Right? And, for if you
(53:34):
abide in me, you will bear muchfruit. It was really helpful for
me to to read through that andthen realize what does bear
mean?
You will bear much fruit. Ialways read that as abide in me
and you will bear much fruit.That means you will produce a
bunch of fruit. There will a lotof a lot of good things that
(53:57):
come from the work that you do.And certainly production is part
of bearing.
But what bear actually means isyou will be able to hold the
weight of. Right? Abide in mebecause if you abide in me, you
will be able to hold the weightof a whole lot of fruit. I read
that as like, if you lean intome, stay connected to me, depend
on me, look to me as your sourceand your provision, you will be
(54:20):
able to hold the weight of a lotof responsibility. And that is a
really, really, really goodthing.
And we shouldn't shirk that. Weshould praise God for that and
delight in it.
Ben Loy (54:32):
Yeah. I don't think we really touched on on it until
just now, but it it really islike an expansive or an
expanding concept. Like, whenwhen you navigate this well and
you and you use your yourfreedom and your free will to
take on more responsibility,like, that in turn creates more
(54:52):
opportunity and more fruit. Andthen it continues to if you
steward it well, like, continuesto grow and to expand.
Alex Judd (55:00):
And that's the I'm so grateful that you said that
because I think a lot of ourcore values don't compete with
each other. They complement eachother. Mhmm. And I think freedom
and responsibility runs rampantunless it's not also paired with
strength is for service.
Ben Loy (55:18):
Mhmm.
Alex Judd (55:19):
Right? Like, we are incredibly blessed to be able to
be strong, to takeresponsibility, and to
experience great freedom. And,man, it is such a strength and
such a gift and such a blessingthat that I've had my eyes and
we collectively have our had oureyes open to this reality of how
the world works that when wetake responsibility, we get
(55:39):
freedom. What is strength for?It's for service.
Right? And so how do we usethat? We don't use this to
basically just bolster upbolster up our own lifestyles
and basically orient everythingwith regard to our work around
my personal comfort zone, thatis actually defeating the
purpose of what we're talkingabout.
Ben Loy (55:59):
The
Alex Judd (56:00):
reason why we are strong in freedom and
responsibility is so that we canserve other people. And that's
why it exists, and andultimately, it exists so that we
can glorify God. And that's theoverarching principle behind all
of this is it's all submitted tothat aim because freedom for the
sake of freedom isn't freedom atall.
Ben Loy (56:19):
Mean, it just makes me think of Jesus. It's like what
it I mean, Jesus took theresponsibility for us so that we
could experience freedom. Right?And I mean, if our calling is to
reflect him in that way, like,yeah, it's really pointless to
be pursuing this with themindset of like, oh yeah, just
want to build up and kind ofcounterintuitive to go, oh, I
(56:42):
want to pursue moreresponsibility and navigate this
wall so that I can create morecomfort around my own life. It's
like, no.
This is for this is for theservice and the the benefit of
the people around you, thepeople that are in your life.
Alex Judd (56:53):
Yeah. I mean, Garden Of Gethsemane. Right? Jesus,
what do you want? A capital wwant to be smack dab in the
center of the father's will.
Ben Loy (57:04):
Mhmm.
Alex Judd (57:05):
What do you lowercase w want? I really want that if
there's any other way, like, wedo that because I really don't
wanna do this. But he made thedecision that the the actual
want, the deepest desire, thespirit was going to conquer the
flesh in that moment. And, wow,praise God that that's our
(57:26):
example and that that's what wehave to follow.
Ben Loy (57:29):
If you wanted someone listening to this episode to
take away one thing or to hearone thing, what would it be?
Alex Judd (57:36):
There is so much available to you. You have you
have no idea how much isavailable to you, but it will
always demand that you takeresponsibility. Thanks, Alex.
Thanks, Ben. Well, there youhave it.
Thanks so much for joining usfor this episode. If you want
any of the information orresources that we mentioned,
(57:57):
that's all in the show notes.Hey. Before you go, could I ask
you for one quick favor? Couldyou subscribe, rate, and review
this podcast episode?
Your feedback is what helps ourteam engage in a sequence of
never ending improvement. Wewanna amplify what's valuable to
you and obviously reduce or evenremove the things that aren't.
(58:17):
Also, you leaving a positivereview is what helps us connect
with, build trust with, andserve other leaders around the
country. So thanks in advancefor helping us out on that
front. Are you a leader thatwants to grow your business in a
healthy way, serve peopleexceptionally well, and glorify
God in the process.
Go to pathforgrowth.com to getmore information about our
(58:39):
community of impact drivenleaders and schedule a call with
our team. Hey, thank you so muchto the Path for Growth team,
Kyle Cummings and the crew atPodCircle, and the remarkable
leaders that are activelyengaged in the path for growth
community. Y'all are the peoplethat make this podcast possible.
Y'all know this. We're rootingfor you.
(58:59):
We're praying for you. We wannasee you win. Remember, my
strength is not for me. Yourstrength is not for you. Our
strength is for service.
Let's go. Let's go. Let's go.
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