Grow without Losing Your Peace with Jonathan Duarte

Jonathan Duarte is a business owner who has fully committed himself to the fundamentals of healthy growth, and the results have been incredible to witness. In this episode, Jonathan shares his powerful testimony of discovering a new relationship with Jesus and His grace, and he describes how that transformation changed every part of his life. He also explains how he’s maintained his peace and his identity in Christ, while still nurturing his desire to pursue growth and expansion for his business. 

Information isn’t the gap between failure and success—action is. Path for Growth’s 1-on-1 coaching helps you create a plan and execute on what matters most for your business. Apply today at pathforgrowth.com/coaching.

Episode Recap:

• Can you tell us your testimony of re-encountering Jesus?
• What gives you the confidence to share your story?
• How has internal peace changed your life? 
• How did your personal transformation coincide with coming to own a business? 
• What were your strengths and weaknesses in the early days of business? 
• How did you reconcile the tension between wanting to grow and feeling content? 
• How do you make sure you’re finding your identity in Christ alone?
• At what point did you begin to formalize and structure the business? 
• Why did you decide to work with a coach?
• What motivated you to put the work into business fundamentals? 
• What’s the biggest difference you experience in your business now? 
• Why do you see your marriage as your biggest ministry?
• What’s one thing you want leaders to keep fresh in their minds? 

If you’re ready to move beyond just gathering information and start executing on what truly matters, Path for Growth’s 1-on-1 coaching can help. Apply now at pathforgrowth.com/coaching.

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Episode Transcript

Alex Judd (00:02):
Okay. I'd love just to jump straight into the deep
end because I think it's gonnainform just a a little bit of
how people understand yourperspective on everything from
business to leadership in life.So I'd love to start, if you're
down for it, with just a asnapshot of your testimony.

Jonathan Duarte (00:18):
My testimony starts, I was raised in a
religious family, but a highcontrol religious group. I went
to church three times a week myentire life. My dad was a
minister, traveled, did missionwork. I don't fault the system

(00:38):
completely, but I developed aworks based view of who Jesus
was. And my heart was sincere,but I struggled to always be
good enough.
And that struggle wentthroughout my whole life. And so
really, my story was raised inchurch, got involved in youth

(00:59):
group and trying to help others,got married super young to the
pastor's daughter. We had kidsyoung. Everybody would say we
had the ideal life, butinternally, it was not good.
There was lots of problems, andwe were married for seventeen
years.
I became a pastor of the churchat 24 years old and led the

(01:21):
church for twelve years undersenior leadership. But then one
day that all fell apart, and,that's a long story that we
couldn't tell in this entirepodcast, but my life fell apart
and divorce happened. I thinkwhen you're relying on yourself,
then when you fall, there's noone to catch you. And so when I

(01:44):
fell, there was nothing therefor me. So then I was I really
thought this, and it soundssilly to say today, but I
thought if I've failed, well,then I might as well just live
the way of the world because I'mnot gonna go to heaven anyways
because I've I've failed so far.
And so I turned to alcoholism,women, just everything you can

(02:05):
name that that sin has to offer,and that was my life for three
years. And one day, I realizedthat that road, even if I was
gonna not make it to heaven,that road was so unfulfilling
that there had to be a betterway. And so I went back and I

(02:25):
went back to try the religionagain because that's all I knew,
you know, but I think somethingchanged in my heart and I was
really trying to seek Jesus.Shortly after returning my
giving my life back to the Lord,I met my wife and current wife,
Isela. And, she was on a journeyvery similar to mine.

(02:46):
And in the Christian world, notthe most ideal journey. Right?
Divorce is not something thatyou're proud of, and so but,
man, God put us together, and wehave a blended family and, had
one child together, and andreally, like, she was besides
Jesus, she was the piece thatchanged my life. And there is a
long story there of reallyrealizing that because I still

(03:08):
didn't realize I was in aworkspace mindset. I didn't have
that language.
Mhmm. And so through someexperiences that she had, we
realized, like, we have to leavethis group. And that was one of
the toughest decisions that I'veever made in my life. And you
realize when you're in a tightknit religious group like that,
my business associates, mybrothers were all in it. My my

(03:31):
parents were in it.
In in that moment, I think Icould say I I had no friends or
associates outside of thisreligious group. And so to walk
away from this was to walk awayfrom everything. But I was
really faced with this decisionof, like, I can see where this
is wrong. Do you have thestrength to just follow me? And

(03:54):
that was that was Jesus.
And, so that was a journey of ajourney that I'm still on, to be
honest with you, and and even toget to the point to find a new
church and because at thatpoint, was just like, I'm done
with religion. I don't evenknow, you know, I was like,
well, I'll follow you Jesus, butI'm not gonna go to a church
because that's where bad thingshappen. But by God's grace, he

(04:19):
challenged me and he, you know,he brings those prayers that I
prayed because I wanted to be inchurch with my family. And he
was like, you know, now I'mproviding this opportunity and
you're and you're gonna stayhome. And so I didn't do that,
but it was very uncomfortablewhen you're in an outward, you
know, I don't know how manydetails we wanna get into, but,
you know, with how you look isso important, how how a woman

(04:40):
dress, all these things were soimportant, how I was raised and
long hair and all thesedifferent things.
And so, you know, we wore suitsand ties to church, and we were
real proud of ourselves. And soto go to a church and, you know,
the the worship pastor has got aponytail and skinny jeans, you

Alex Judd (04:56):
know, I just like When you came here for this
interview and you were like,Alex, I don't own pants anymore.
We live in Houston now. And soit's like, it's changed a little
bit.

Jonathan Duarte (05:05):
Yeah. It's changed. So that was just a
journey and even earlier thisyear, I actually was rebaptized.
I don't think that I had to bebecause I don't believe baptism
saves you. But for me, it was anew start of a complete grace
based relationship with Jesus.
And I realized, like, I can'tmake this on my own. I get I get

(05:26):
knew this on my own. It's it'spurely his grace because I've
failed in everything and I'vetried and it came down to like,
it's either the blood of Jesusor or hell for me because I
can't. There's I can't followthese rules. I can't abide by
this.
There's too many things that Istruggle with, and so it was
really like, this is my onlyoption and but man, I try to

(05:49):
share with others that, youknow, maybe are in because it's
easy to fall back into thisdoing, you know, instead of
letting it come from the inside.And I try to be like, man, when
you start this journey withcomplete grace, like, there's so
much freedom in it. Not afreedom to sin like Paul would,
but a freedom just to be likewho God created you to be. And

(06:12):
so that's really been my journeyin relation to my life and
business, and there's so manydetails in there that we could
go into, but that's really whereI'm at. I I I joke that I'm a
anti religious Jesus follower.
Yeah.

Alex Judd (06:26):
Which it turns out Jesus was an anti religious.
Well, he was Jesus. So he wasn'ta Jesus follower. But okay. The
first thing I would say is,thank you for sharing that.
I actually didn't feel thatnervous asking that question
because I've spent enough timewe've known each other for years
now, and, like, you lead withwith vulnerability in so many

(06:47):
ways. The I think it'd be reallyeasy for people to be, like,
almost embarrassed or ashamed toshare that story. How can you
share it so confidently?

Jonathan Duarte (06:58):
I think I share it confidently because it's
Jesus. Right? And because it'slike even divorce sometimes in
the church is something likethat I can hang my head in shame
about because I didn't go theway of not being divorced and
and, you know, all the thingsand my we have a blended family
and we have all these things,but it's just because it's I'm

(07:18):
here and I'm a Jesus follower,and I need his forgiveness every
single day. And so I think it'sjust it to me, hopefully, my
testimony points to the deepdesire and need for Jesus in my
life. And, I've been forgiven ofso much, you know, that it makes
it easier to be like, I I feellike if you judge me from what
I've been through, I'm sorry.

(07:38):
I would probably judge myself ifI don't have the grace of God as
well as well. And so I thinkit's just a desire to and this
is not who I've been most of mylife. See, I was a I was a
person who struggled with peoplepleasing and still do. I'm not
I'm not a 100% over that. And,but, you know, those are things
where, you know, you I wanted tolook good.

(07:59):
I I married the the, you know,the lead pastor's daughter. I I
did all the things. I wasleading the church. I was you
know what I mean? Everythingwas, like, great, you know,
great on the outside, but I wasbroken on the inside.
And I feel like now I can feellike I'm healed in the inside,
and you can see the brokennesson the outside, so there's no
reason to hide it.

Alex Judd (08:19):
Man, if we were to distill, like, the primary
lesson you had to learn toundergo that transformation, how
would you distill it?

Jonathan Duarte (08:29):
That I can't do it outside of Jesus. And I think
it's it's a real simple lesson,but it's like, it's it's it's I
think Paul kinda broke this downa lot. Like, it's either grace
or works, but it's not both.Right? You can't you know?
And so for me, it's just grace.I think that's my lesson. It's a
it's it's the grace of God, andand that's the only thing that I

(08:52):
have.

Alex Judd (08:53):
If we were to sit down and have this morning and
this conversation with 24 yearold Jonathan

Jonathan Duarte (09:00):
Mhmm.

Alex Judd (09:00):
Like, what are the words that I would use to
describe your personality, youraffect, the way that you think
and act? What would I say?

Jonathan Duarte (09:08):
I was a person who always did the right thing
Mhmm. Who was always in serviceof others. I was the first one
at the church, the last one toleave. I I was I I did all the
things.

Alex Judd (09:20):
Mhmm. So it's likely that I might have said, man,
he's a really good guy.

Jonathan Duarte (09:23):
I I yeah. I was well liked. I was a people
pleaser. People like peoplepleasers because they please
them.

Alex Judd (09:30):
That's kinda goes with the role. Yeah. What was
going on internally in you thatmaybe you were even unaware of
at that time? What was yourinternal state like?

Jonathan Duarte (09:40):
I think one that I always felt like I was
short of. Like, I never couldmeet the mark. Like inadequacy?
Yeah. Inadequate.
I was trying to meet the mark. Iwasn't I didn't pray enough. I
didn't read my you know, therewas things that I still needed
to do to to be good enough.Right? It wasn't good enough to
do what I was doing even thougheverybody else was pleased with

(10:01):
me.
Internally, I wasn't pleased.Mhmm. And I didn't have the
language for, like because Ithought I was walking in grace.
It wasn't like we didn't talkabout grace. Right?
I mean, so it's not like it wasjust absent from my growing up
and and many people that arestill there would say they rely
on grace. But, you know, one ofmy mentors, that pastor that I

(10:22):
first started talking with, hehe said, like, when you need one
thing outside of Jesus is a stepaway from him. Mhmm. And so it's
a move away from a complete andutter reliance on Jesus.

Alex Judd (10:34):
So I you and Ysela are friends. Right? And and I
know y'all well. I've known youfor years. I've I've spent time
in strategic planning meetingswith you.
I've gotten to see you lead inand around your business. I've
seen you in context with yourkids as well. And I would still
look and be like, man, thatJonathan, he's a good guy.
Right? So some things are thesame, but it sounds like your

(10:55):
internal state is radicallydifferent.
What what's the biggestdifference of the internal state
now and how that manifestsexternally?

Jonathan Duarte (11:04):
I'm not gonna put on and say it's perfect.
Right? I mean, because I I thinkthat's still a weakness of mine
that I can go back to of tryingto do things. So having
difficult conversations is stillsomething I'm learning and
growing in. Yeah.
Having to fire somebody, youknow, a year or so ago was, ugh,
it just broke me. Right? Youknow? And so those are still a

(11:25):
struggle, but I think there'sthis I would use the word peace.

Alex Judd (11:29):
And

Jonathan Duarte (11:29):
and even inside of, like, the ship is rocking
outside, but, you know, Jesussaid the peace that I give you
is not as the world gives you.And so I think I finally started
to experience, like, peaceinternally that if I lose the
business, you know, if it allfalls apart, like, I still have
the peace. And so I think that'ssomething I'm still learning and

(11:50):
growing. But that would what Iwould say the differ the biggest
difference is I have internalpeace.

Alex Judd (11:54):
How does internal peace practically change the way
that you lead?

Jonathan Duarte (11:59):
I feel like it releases the tension to have to
do it all, you know, to have tobe it all.

Alex Judd (12:07):
Can you tell me more about that?

Jonathan Duarte (12:09):
Well, when you're in a performance or peep
you know, then you feel like youneed to say the exact right
thing. You need to handle thissituation perfectly. You need to
have the right strategicbusiness moves, or it comes back
to you and you made a poordecision as a leader. And so
it's almost a desire forperfection, which is, you know,
insane because nobody does itperfectly. And, you know, it's

(12:31):
crazy because I listen to allthese podcasts and these
business leaders that I look at,and they're they all talk about
learning through failure.
But, like, I don't wanna fail,you know? And so I think that
that sometimes.

Alex Judd (12:41):
Okay. So all of this transformation happens. The

(14:26):
thing that's really remarkablewhenever I hear you tell your
story, Jonathan, is, like, thatis a, in some ways, a very
turbulent traumatic I mean, thatis a LCE, life changing event.
Right? And it's not like you hitpause on career and life while
you did all of that to figureout your internal state.
It's like life and work washappening in all of this. So how

(14:47):
did all of that transformationcoincide with your ownership of
the business and all of that?

Jonathan Duarte (14:52):
Ironically, like, during some of the most
turbulent times, I think becauseI was trying to figure out what
I'm gonna do with my life. Andat that point, my dad had been a
house painter and a painter hiswhole life, probably out of the
people pleasing mechanism. Ijust went to work for him Mhmm.
Because he traveled a lot anddid a lot of overseas mission

(15:13):
work, and so it felt like Ineeded to support him. He needed
me to run the business so thathe could do God's work is the
way that I would have said atthat time.
And so there was it probablywasn't a lot of my own. And so
so then by that point, I've beendoing that for, man, a long
time.

Alex Judd (15:32):
And how old were you when you started?

Jonathan Duarte (15:34):
I started working for my dad. I mean,
honestly, in summer when I was14 years old. I mean, all
through high school, I mean,that's all I did was, you know,
scrape houses and work for him.And so I've had a few other
jobs, but that's primarily allI'd done. And so I don't know
what age I started.
I wanted to get into commercialand industrial, and he gave me
some freedom to pursue thosethings. And so we started

(15:54):
growing the business a littlebit, but he just wasn't
passionate about the business.It was just a means for him to
support what he wanted to do.Mhmm. And so at that point, I
was must have been in my midthirties, 02/2014.
So, do the math on that. But,May yeah. Late thirties. And I
was just like, I gotta make somemoney in my life because he

(16:15):
wasn't paying me well either.And so I was like, you know what
I mean?
And I I just been throughdivorce, and I just, like, I was
considering moving, but I hadkids there. And so I was like, I
need to sell. So I kinda went tohim and said, hey. I need to be
like a partner in this business,or I'm gonna go do my own thing.
And I had brung my brothers inas well.
They were working for him in thefield. I was running the

(16:37):
business. And so the the gift Ihad through all that was, like,
I did all of business. I I didthe bookkeeping. I did payroll.
I learned how to pay quarterly.So he basically let me do it all
because he didn't really wannado it. And so I there was a
gift, right, to learn everyphase of business. I can paint
and I can do books and I can doall of it.

Alex Judd (16:56):
Did you think you were preparing at that time?

Jonathan Duarte (16:59):
No, no, I don't think so. Yeah, I didn't look at
it as a gift.

Alex Judd (17:02):
Yeah, did David think he was preparing when he killed
lions? Probably not, yeah.

Jonathan Duarte (17:08):
No, I didn't, at the time, no, I didn't have
the vision to see that this wasactually a blessing. And so, but
I brung my brothers in and weapproached my dad, and he was
just like, well, I'll give youpartnership, like, financially,
but you'll have you're like, Istill have a 100% control. And I
just was uncomfortable with thatbecause I was like, I want I
want I'm I had this desire. Ididn't know if I had language to

(17:30):
be, like, successful, to drivesuccessful businesses, and that
wasn't common in how I grew up.Like, there was one man, these
things are just conversationsthat I had, and I he was an
elder in the church.
I didn't know him because helived in a different area. I had
a chance to take him somewherefor lunch because somebody was

(17:50):
busy. And that day, I just neverremember, we're sitting in my
truck, and he looks at me and hesaid, do you have desires to be
successful? And I said, yeah,actually, do. Nobody ever asked
me that question.

Alex Judd (18:01):
Actually, actually, I do.

Jonathan Duarte (18:03):
Yeah. Actually, I do. And and then he said, you
know, you can still do that andhonor God. And that was the
first time that I felt like Ihad permission. So that planted
a seed in me that, like, thesetwo this desire doesn't
necessarily have to be an antiGod desire.
Wow. And so so that was a giftas well, you know. There's

(18:24):
people that planted seeds in me,and so to get to the story, and
so then my dad was like, well,I'm I'll just retire. You guys
can buy me out if that you know,because he was just kinda at
that point, and so we bought mydad out in 02/2014, my brothers
and I, and we formed apartnership. And from there,
like, honestly, I could tell youstories of we were we were in

(18:46):
debt, the credit line was maxedout.
I mean, it was like, I I only somy mom still worked for me at
that point, and I was like, hey.We never talk about who we owe
money to anymore except for onThursdays because I can't be
stressed out every day of theweek. And and Thursday was the
day before payroll on Friday.Right? And I was like, we'll

(19:07):
figure it out on Thursdays howwe're gonna make it work on
Friday.
Wow. Because so that was thebusiness. And I remember me and
my dad had arguments is he said,well, that's just how business
is. And I said, well, if this ishow business is, then I'm not
gonna be a business owner. I'mgonna go work for somebody
because this is too stressful.
And and so but purely, like, Godhas been in like, he he gave us

(19:30):
this job that was just acomplete gift, and that job, we
made enough profits on to payoff the credit line and, and
have cash in the business. Andfrom that point on, we've never,
besides a piece of property,we've never borrowed another
penny. We don't even have acredit line, which is probably
not good business, but we don'thave a credit line. And so just
God just gave us favor, and wegrew the business substantially

(19:53):
and, continue to grow fromthere.

Alex Judd (19:55):
When you think about those early days and maybe even
years, what would you say were,your or y'all's greatest
strengths, and what were yourgreatest weaknesses early?

Jonathan Duarte (20:05):
I think our greatest strength was the, just
that we were willing to work,you know, and

Alex Judd (20:13):
It's amazing how much of a strength that is.

Jonathan Duarte (20:15):
Yeah. And we were doing quality work and we
weren't afraid to take somechances. And we just had a lot
of I don't think we were just soyoung and we didn't know
anything. Right? So we werejust, like, to have, you know,
$20,000 in the checking accountwas like, wow.
Like, you know what I mean? AndI remember the first draw, like,
we took a each one of us took, a$10,000 draw and it was just

(20:37):
like, oh, my life is like, youknow what I mean? Like, you
know, I remember getting itwasn't long I think about a year
after buying the business, I wasable to pay off all my personal
debt, you know what mean?Because I had credit cards and
all, you know what I mean? Andso I think our weakness is just
what we we didn't have anystructure.
We didn't have role clarity. Wedidn't have anything. We didn't
have vision. We didn't havemission. We didn't have core

(20:59):
values, but I think we had them.
We just didn't have language forthem.

Alex Judd (21:03):
Sure. I mean, you probably had to have had them
Yeah. Because of how fast youwere growing. It just wasn't
formalized yet.

Jonathan Duarte (21:08):
Yes.

Alex Judd (21:09):
Yeah. So you talked about how you almost had to be
convinced that you can honor Godand be successful. Did that rear
its ugly head whenever youstarted to experience success?
Like, did you feel tension inthe success that you experienced
because of maybe some previousthought processes that you had
had?

Jonathan Duarte (21:28):
The tension was when I wanted to go for more.
Right? Then it'll be like, whycan't you just be satisfied?
Like, this is better than youever had it. Yeah.
But I still had this tension toto grow and drive. I mean, I
think eventually I could makethat a little about language and
then p business became aboutgrowing people. And then my my
passion changed about, like, oh,this is what's fun is giving

(21:51):
giving people a a good job. Andand, you know, it's like, I had
desires, like, man, this guy'sbeen with this, like, eight
years already, but, like, whatif he stays with us thirty years
and we don't have a four zeroone k for him and we don't have
health insurance and, you know,so these are the these are my
desires, but we have to get to acertain size before we can
afford those type of things.Yeah.
And so those are the things wewere able to add, you know, as

(22:11):
the years went by, and thosewere just huge blessings to be
like, now when that guy, like,he's gonna have a retirement to
to go, you know, to be able tolive on. And so that, you know,
that those are just sorewarding.

Alex Judd (22:23):
Yeah. It's interesting because, like, I
observe it a lot in men that areleading and owning businesses
that I think men are in someways wired to expand, to grow,
to move forward, in some ways tonot ever be fully satisfied.
Right? But then I think a lot oftimes they have these moments
where they're like, why can't Ijust be content? Why can't I you

(22:45):
know, if they're followingJesus, why can't I be grateful?
Right? I don't wanna always wantmore. How do you square those
two where it's like, I'm wiredto grow, but I'm also called to
be content and joyful andgrateful where I am?

Jonathan Duarte (22:57):
I think it comes back to that deep inner
peace, right, of like, okay. Canyou wrestle with the fact of,
are you okay if it doesn'thappen? Are are you okay if the
growth doesn't you know what Imean? Like, or is that gonna is
this becoming your identity? Youknow?
And so I think it's comes backto a core value of identity of,

(23:18):
like, is my identity truly inChrist? Because if it is, then
if I lose it, if he really gaveit to me and blessed me with it,
then I could lose it all too ifif for some reason he needs me
to go through that. Mhmm. And Ithink, you you know, that's hard
to be okay with that. Yeah.
But and and so I haven'tthankfully lost it all, so I

(23:38):
can't say, like, oh, I would bedo do that perfectly. Yeah. But
I think that's my prayer isthat, like, god, like, this
always has to this has my innercore has to be centered. And so
and then it's like, okay. Like,how can I can I continue to
glorify you with this growth?
Because similar to the workspacethat that mentor told me, if it

(23:58):
starts stepping away from that,well, then that's one step away
from who he's calling you to be.Yeah. So if all of a sudden in
that I can't serve my marriage,you know, that's, know, then,
you know, then is it God? Youknow, you know, if if if I'm not
giving anymore because I need tosave for this, well, then, you

(24:20):
know, if I can't do these coreprinciples, then then I have to
be like, this is becoming me.

Alex Judd (24:26):
You know, there's one of the 10 commandments is do not
take the Lord's name in vain.Right? And I I think we hear
that a lot of times, and we saythat means we shouldn't say, oh
my God. Right? And that I thinkis a simplification or overly
simplistic understanding of thatcommandment because in some
ways, what do not take theLord's name in vain is saying is

(24:48):
do not put God's will onsomething that it's like you're
just attributing it to that sothat you basically have an
excuse to do what you want todo.
And it's the example you gave.It's like it can be very
tempting and very easy to growyour business because God told
you to. Meanwhile, you'resacrificing your marriage and
it's like, God has definitelytold you things about that as

(25:10):
well that you're just ignoring.

Jonathan Duarte (25:12):
Yeah. I that's a good point. And because you
don't we don't have to askcertain things, you know, we I
mean, you are both a fan ofdecision making in the will of
gods and, like, because thoseare laid out clearly. We don't,
you know, we don't have to askif it's okay to the reference to
take god's name in vain. Yeah.
Like, we don't need to see godabout things.

Alex Judd (25:32):
Yeah. That's he already told us.

Jonathan Duarte (25:34):
That's very clearly defined.

Alex Judd (25:35):
Been clear about it whenever he said it.

Jonathan Duarte (25:36):
So I think if it's moving away from those
things that are clearly definedas your responsibility as a
believer, then then you haveyour answer.

Alex Judd (26:49):
How do you guard against your business or your
achievement or your growth orthe approval of others becoming
your identity?

Jonathan Duarte (26:57):
Probably in my daily communion with the Lord,
like, really, you know, I'm I'min this, phase of I'll just say,
I guess, we're just being bolderhere. I haven't been the best at
worshiping the Lord Mhmm. In my,know, just sitting in worship
and I'm trying to learn to dothat in my quiet time and I
think that was really, you know,it just really bringing him,

(27:20):
like, what is the scripture?Seek ye first. Mhmm.
Right? And so it's like when Iseek him first, then I think
it'll be evident, right, thatthat this is not the the way
that he wants me to go becausethis is taking away from what
you're supposed to do.

Alex Judd (27:34):
Yeah. Why why daily?

Jonathan Duarte (27:37):
Man, it's probably it's probably more
minute by minute than daily. Ithink it's just intentionality.
I knew it daily, but I'm reallylearning to to pray continually.
Right? Paul said pray withoutceasing.
Yeah. I've been working throughthat scripture lately of just
like in everything, give Godthanks. And it's like, didn't
say in some things, it's like,hey, he said in everything. And

(27:58):
he said, I think the other wordhe said rejoice always. Right?
And I was like, man, that reallyconvicted me because I don't
always rejoice in the thingsthat aren't going the way that I
perceive they should be going.And so, so I think it's just
this this really not even dayit's just this continual there's
a guy I listened to, he talksabout a what he's a fan of what

(28:20):
he calls the ten second prayer.Mhmm. And all that does is give
him language to be like, I cando that before every meeting,
before every phone call, youknow, be, you know, everything I
do, I can just bring him into itcontinually. So it's probably
more than daily, but I think Ijust daily rhythms is what I've
trying to, you know, habits.

Alex Judd (28:38):
Well, you're part of the path for growth community
and, it's a it's a we don'tmarket this on our website, but
it's one of the peripheralbenefits of being part of the
Path for Growth community is youget to learn a lot from Orthodox
Jewish people because in in awild work of God, one of our
greatest client bases isOrthodox Jewish leaders in the
Tri State area, which is justwild. I I still can't explain

(29:00):
that. I always say it's God andNaftali Tessler. But one of the
things that I have learned fromspending time with them at our
experiences or whenever we go upthere and things like that is
they have routines and ritualsof prayer that are literally,
like, before they take a sip ofwater or eat a piece of bread,
they just it it's shorter thanten seconds. It's probably
shorter than two seconds, butthey have certain phrases and

(29:22):
rituals that they mutter.
And I just think that's such anexample of what you're talking
about is, like, what does itlook like to ingrain communion
with God throughout your day asa practice in some ways?

Jonathan Duarte (29:34):
Yeah. To be in relationship. Right? I think
that that's kind of what I thinkwhat I think of when you say
that. I think sometimes we haveto be intentional to foster the
relationship.
Right? We have to we have to belike, we're going on date
nights. You know? We're doingthese things because why? It's
not because you have to, but youwant to be in relationships.

(29:56):
So we have to intentionally maketime to bring him into that. So
I think those rituals make theframework to be in relationship
often.

Alex Judd (30:05):
That's so good. But then also, like, relating it to
the pray without ceasing idea,like, if I ever told Aspen, hey,
I'm gonna spend forty fivereally solid minutes with you
first thing in the morning, andthen I'll touch base with you
right before I lay down my headon the pillow at night, but I'm
not gonna talk to you at all inbetween that time. I don't think
she would be thrilled aboutthat, and that wouldn't be good

(30:26):
for me either. And it's like,but if I'm not careful, that's
how I treat my relationship withGod is he's got me morning
devotional time, and then Icheck-in with him in the
evening, and then I don't talkto him at all throughout the
day.

Jonathan Duarte (30:38):
Yeah. No. I am I'm on this journey of learning,
but man, what a like, you know,to once again, I don't love
difficult conversations. So youwalk into a difficult
conversation, and you're justlike, god, like, grant me wisdom
and, you know, grant me peaceand calmness as I as I go into
this conversation. Well, well,it's just like you can he just
like, he's there.
You just you're waiting to beinvited into into that. So I

(31:00):
think it's, like, a free giftthat we have to access, and
sometimes we don't even we don'teven rely on it.

Alex Judd (31:05):
Yeah. Can you walk us through how long was the period
where the business grew, but youstill hadn't formalized
structure, values, operatingsystem, all of that?

Jonathan Duarte (31:17):
I I mean, no business school, barely
graduated high school. So Ididn't have any language for any
of this stuff. So honestly, Iread the Entre Leadership book,
and that was really my playbookfor running a business.

Alex Judd (31:32):
Because good one to read. Yeah.

Jonathan Duarte (31:33):
I had nothing else. And then I just became
kind of a a junkie of, you know,listening to reading books and
and leadership and really tryingto grow.

Alex Judd (31:43):
Can I pause you there real quick? So that's
interesting because I thinkthere's a lot of people, and
it's not a full stereotype, buta lot of times in the service
industry, you coincide with alot of leaders that they haven't
done anything else. Your storyis a perfect example. It was
really largely the only job youhad had at that point, and they

(32:03):
see this new informationbusiness leadership books, and
they're like, I'm not doing anyof that crap. It's literally
what they'll say.
It's wild to me that you were soreceptive to a different way of
doing things. What what causedthat?

Jonathan Duarte (32:14):
I think it's just something in an internal
desire, and I don't think I evenhad language for it. I just knew
I just now I have language forit. I want a business that can
function without me. Like,that's, you know, and then so so
then it's like, I have to growthis thing in people to grow you
know, I didn't really even knowthat's what I wanted, but I

(32:36):
think deep down now, I can lookback and say, like, I think it
was a God thing. He put plantedseeds of desire in there.
And so I always was hungerhungry to grow and learn and
because I just knew I didn'tknow. Right? I didn't have a
business degree. So I didn'tthink I knew. I knew I didn't
know.
Right? And so I knew how to doan estimate and, you know,

(32:57):
create invoices and, you know,do that kind of stuff to create
money, but I didn't know how tolead people or grow a business.

Alex Judd (33:05):
Yeah. So you read Entre Leadership. And and were
there things you implementedeven in those early days, or was
it more planting ideas that youwould eventually bring to the
business?

Jonathan Duarte (33:16):
We implemented, like, the profit sharing model
really early, probably too earlybecause I it was a little bit
messy. Yeah. But I really wantedto share with our team. And so
that was something we took awayreally early. And there was some
resistance with my partner.
So in 02/2014, we bought out mydad. In 02/2016, I had always
had a desire for industrial. Iwas bidding it, but I didn't

(33:38):
have the workforce to do it. SoI was subbing a lot of it to
Angel, which is now my partner.And then he eventually was like,
man, I'm doing better on thework that you're giving me.
So, like, can we figuresomething out? He couldn't
really buy into the business wehad. So we actually started
another business that focusedonly on industrial. So that was
02/2016. Wow.
And so that point, we're justreally growing both businesses

(33:59):
and that business kind of wasgrowing at the same pace, but
there was just a lot of and wemade things work, but, you know,
there was not systems processes.So we probably did that, I mean,
at least four or five years ofjust really just running, you
know, the you know, justfiguring things out and

Alex Judd (34:16):
Was that necessary or do you think you could

Jonathan Duarte (34:18):
have accelerated the path towards
structure? I think we could haveaccelerated the path. You know,
role clarity would have beengreat. But, I mean, I think it's
hard because, you know, it'swhen you say role clarity and
you're like, okay. I'm stilldoing payroll.
I'm doing am I a bookkeeper, anaccountant, a lead estimator?
You know, I be project manager,know, mean, like, you know, it's
like, so I need to have like a10, you know, 10 things that I

(34:41):
need role clarity on. Yeah. Andso when you're lean and you're
doing wearing so many hats, Idon't I don't know the exact I
mean, I think I would start fromthe beginning now, but, you
know, at the time I didn't knowthat. So we just did whatever
needed to be done in thatmoment.

Alex Judd (34:56):
Yeah. You know, whether Were you enjoying it for
me? Yeah.

Jonathan Duarte (34:59):
It was fun. Yeah. I mean, because we would
out, I would still get out andon bigger jobs and we're short
manpower and so we get out thereand lay some floors and, you
know, you know, that, you know,that was always fun. When I went
and did that, because I alwaysfelt guilty because my brothers
and partners were out in thefield. And so I always be like,
well, what, you know, it'salways the fields like, what's
the office even do?
Right?

Alex Judd (35:20):
That is like the most common meme in the service
industry period. They sit

Jonathan Duarte (35:24):
in the, you know, and so but when I would go
out there and spend a day justlike painting, I was like, oh,
like, this is so I don't I don'tmean it easier, but it is. It's
it's easier mentally, Right?Because like, I would just do my
job and then I would just gohome at the end of the day and I
was done. Yeah. Like, and I feellike sometimes

Alex Judd (35:41):
And you knew you were done too.

Jonathan Duarte (35:42):
Yeah. In the office, like, there's like,
you're never really done andyou're like, you know, and so
and it's sometimes doing a 100things and it feels like you
can't really, like, what did Iget done today? So I realized
like this is harder mentallythan it is, you know, so that
felt like a vacation when Iwould get the chances to go do
that.

Alex Judd (35:58):
Yeah. No kidding.

Jonathan Duarte (35:59):
Now the people in the field would never say
that shit.

Alex Judd (36:01):
That's right. That makes sense. Yeah. It's
interesting that people in theoffice sometimes put on their
work boots and go out into thefield. You don't often see
people come from the field andsay, I'm gonna put on my suit
and tie and come into theoffice.
It doesn't really switch thatway all that much. Okay. So when
did the structure become, like,things that you were actively
implementing and things thatyou're really installing into

(36:23):
your business?

Jonathan Duarte (36:24):
I attended master series, which was kind of
like that was the first one,like, oh, you can have structure
around hiring and firing, and itkinda, you know, like, kinda
gave me some framework. Was Didwe meet there? We did not meet
at master series. We met was ita master series? So there we I
attended master series bymyself.
I took my brother's because atthe time, he did a one day I

(36:46):
think it was after masterSeries, a family business.

Alex Judd (36:49):
Yeah. We did one of those. And then I was I remember
that.

Jonathan Duarte (36:52):
I was there for that in Nashville, and that's
the first time we met in person.That's right. I think you were
leading the podcast at thattime. Yeah. And I met you just
briefly there.

Alex Judd (37:00):
I it was, like, what, five five or six years ago, but
I looked like I was fourteenyears Yeah. I

Jonathan Duarte (37:06):
think you were emceeing that event.

Alex Judd (37:07):
Yeah. I remember. That's right. Yeah. So we met
there, and you at that point,you went to master series, had
started putting in core values,structure, systems, things like
that?

Jonathan Duarte (37:19):
We yes. I I had I was I did have some core
values, and they were close. Ijust they weren't, like,
sticking. Like, we didn't youknow? And so that's when I was
like I was like, I I feel like Ineed a coach.
You know, I feel like I need soso I was considering, you know,
using an executive coach andand, and then I think I had
followed you on social media andyou had started on your own. And

(37:42):
then a friend, a common friendof our Tim Marquez was I was
asking him and, you know, and hewas like, well, he's like, you
know, what's it like? What how'sit helped you? And so he kinda
like really

Alex Judd (37:52):
He was like one of our first members of the Path
for Growth community. And I'llnever forget, I had the call
with Tim and he was like, Ican't even tell you everything I
need. We just need vision iswhat he said. And he started
work, he trusted us and startedworking with us. And then
suddenly we like start gettingreferrals of people that know
Tim and it's like, man, praiseGod that worked out pretty well.

Jonathan Duarte (38:12):
Yeah. And so I'm sometimes one my greatest
strength is not making fastdecisions. I can I can take some
time? And so I think I sat on itfor some time and I don't
remember exactly I reached outto you guys. And and it was
really through that, when Istarted working with Kyle that I
really started getting truelanguage to it, and we kinda
revisited our core values andreally started making them

(38:33):
visible and part of our decisionmaking process.
So really working through those12 fundamentals with Kyle was
the first time we really startedputting like true structure
around, you know, having roleclarity and success statements.
I had language. I was trying. Ihad done a few things, but it
just wasn't sticking. Yeah.
And, so because I probably waspresenting it and then really

(38:54):
not seeing it through, tocompletion. And and there was
some struggle there with thepartners because, you know, it's
it's like, well, we're makingmoney this way, so why do we
need to do this? You know what Imean? And so there's
partnerships can be challengingat different, you know,

Alex Judd (39:09):
at times. Sure. Yeah. That's an understatement, I feel
like. Yeah.
So I mean, it's probably notexaggerating to say if someone
asked me like, who is a casestudy of, methodically executing
the 12 fundamentals for healthygrowth? I I would say you. Mhmm.
And that's not because it's beena a perfect journey from a to z,

(39:31):
but more just because you werejust ruthlessly consistent about
taking the next right step. Andso I guess what I would like to
know is I view the 12fundamentals and people
implementing those into theirbusiness almost like training
for and running a marathon.
Like, it is a big commitment atthe outset, but almost you have

(39:51):
to re up every day almost andyou're just remind yourself of
what you're committing to andwhere you're going with this and
why you're doing this. Where didthe internal resolve come from
to do all of the hard newdifferent work that it takes to
install, like, real healthystructure into the business?

Jonathan Duarte (40:08):
I can't tell you where it came from. I just I
am structure oriented wherelike, for a goal. And so, like,
you know, marathons andironmans, I've completed those.
And so, I just, man, when I havea training plan, the decisions
already been made, it's justlike, you know, it's just like,
I have to go run this far andswim this far and bike this far,
right? It's not, you know, andso when I don't have that

(40:30):
structure, it's like, well, Ineed to go get in shape, but
what am I gonna do to do it?
And then I can I can I can getjust kinda lost in that? So I
think that with working withKyle and and the fundamentals
gave me like, okay, well, iswhat we're doing this month. And
so then it was almost just like,I'm gonna go run or bike. It was
just like, this is what we'redoing. I think the business,
that was one benefit of thepartners is they were primarily

(40:52):
running operations, and we areprofitable.
So I also had I delegated a lot.That was one thing I had learned
from from Entre, and some ofthat was learning. So I
delegated a lot off my platewhen I started wearing Kyle, but
I was kinda like, what do I donow? Like, really, like, how do
I what what is the CEO? Like,how do I really become a CEO?

Alex Judd (41:10):
Man, I think we literally had a conversation
recently internally about, like,who is the customer that the 12
fundamentals are designed for?And what we found is, like, it's
a person that their business hasgrown and is growing, and they
have decided we need structure.Now, like, we are not convincing
them that structure and systemsare good. They've almost

(41:30):
decided, like, we needstructure, and now I just need
the training plan, and it soundslike that's where you were at.

Jonathan Duarte (41:36):
For sure. Yeah. And so I think it just because
there was days at the time, youknow, now that I had hired an
accountant and I'd hired thesedifferent roles, I'm like, what
am I doing today? Like, you knowwhat mean? Like, what fires do I
need to go put out?
Like, that's basically what Iwould how would my days would
work? What problem can I solve?Because I didn't have that. So I
really enjoyed that time becauseit was like, I didn't have any

(41:59):
questions on on on what I wasworking on.

Alex Judd (42:01):
What you're supposed to be doing. It's almost like
painting the wall again. It'slike, okay. I know I know what
my eyes are supposed to be to bepointing at. It's interesting
and I'd be interested to know ifyou have any thoughts on this.
I've never said it this waybefore, but I think one of the
greatest challenges for someoneto go from operator to CEO is
self sabotage. Like, they jumpback into old habits, putting

(42:23):
out fires, things like that. Didyou experience that? And how do
you overcome that?

Jonathan Duarte (42:28):
Thankfully, the time, did because I was like,
well, telling Kyle, remember aconversation we had on one of
our calls, like, I think I'mgonna take back overestimating.
It seems like it's a little bit,you know what I mean? They they
need some help, you know? And hewas like, well, maybe
temporarily, but he really kindacautioned me about, and so I
didn't. And so I think justhaving that accountability
partner gave gave, you know, forme, it helped me from, you know,

(42:50):
diving back into the weedsbecause it's similar to painting
the wall.
There's a little bit of selffulfillment that comes because
you can, you know what I mean?Like, I did this, you know what
mean? I I bid 12 jobs today andwe got four of them and man, I
feel like I did a good jobtoday. Yeah. And so and
sometimes when you're just like,I'm trying to figure out like,
you know, everybody's roleclarity and success statements,

(43:11):
you know what I mean?
Sometimes it's not as, you know,it's not as, like, I did this.
You know?

Alex Judd (43:16):
It's so interesting. I the, the the picture that came
to mind for me as I was as I washearing you tell that story is,
one time, Aspen and I weredriving through Tennessee. This
was after I'd already moved toArizona. We were driving through
Tennessee. And literally withinone sixty second span as we're
driving, I said, I just love howgreen it is here.
It's just so beautiful that it'sso green. And then pause, and

(43:39):
then I say thirty seconds later,I just hate how much it rains
here.

Jonathan Duarte (43:43):
It rains.

Alex Judd (43:44):
And and it's like, I had to pause for a second and be
like, you can't have one withoutthe other. And it's kind of
like, man, I love to do all themanual work. I love working in
the business, but I hate thatit's all on me. And it's like,
man, you can't have one. Like,so I guess what gave you the
vision to finally say, I'm gonnastart delegating.
I'm gonna start letting go, andwe might have to move slower so

(44:06):
that other people can come alongfor the ride.

Jonathan Duarte (44:09):
I'm not the best at one. Another thing I'm
working on is doing, like,reflection because I sometimes I
struggle to find, like, what isthe point that changed it for
me. Sometimes when I journal andwrite notes, I can go back and
be like, oh, that's where I gotthat. Yeah. But somewhere along
the line, I picked up thisvision and idea that, like,

(44:30):
running a business without me,like, that's been my thing,
like, you know, what am I gonnado?
I want to build a business thatcan run without me, right, to be
an asset. And so that's whatreally kinda kept me coming back
is, like, that's what I'm tryingto do is build a business that
can run without me, which kindafeels weird sometimes because
you're, like, almost, like,like, working yourself out of a

(44:51):
job continually. But, man, it'sso rewarding when your team does
things, and and they do thembetter than you a lot of times
that you've held on to. And so Ican't really tell you where that
came from. I've just always hadthat.
I shouldn't say always. I'vejust had a desire to grow a
business that that can functionand operate without my direct

(45:11):
involvement every day.

Alex Judd (45:12):
Man, I'm not sure that a person that's a people
pleaser and approval addictedcould sustainably do that. Mhmm.
Like, I it almost seems to melike the transformation that
occurred in you where God showedyou your identity is not rooted
in the things that you do had tooccur for you to be the type of

(45:33):
leader to create the type ofbusiness that you now get to own
and run.

Jonathan Duarte (45:37):
Yeah. I would agree with that.

Alex Judd (45:39):
On the backside of all of the structure that you
have implemented intoPaintmaster, what's the biggest
difference for you personally?

Jonathan Duarte (45:47):
I think just the ability to know that things
continue to like, there's just alot of peace and freedom to,
like, you know, I'd still havemy check ins, and I have people
that I, you know, lead, but justthat things are getting done.
Like, people are doing their joband they're doing it well and
they're passionate about theculture and they're passionate
about the vision of thebusiness. And so, you know, the

(46:07):
mission of the business. So thatthose are things that, like, I
think that it just gives you alot of peace. Right?
When you hear recently at ourlast quarterly meeting, I shared
a little bit of vision, but theother leaders, taught on core
values and mission. And, like,they did a better job than me,
you know, and I was just like,man, like, this is this is that.
This is working. Right? I mean,like Yeah.

(46:29):
When you hear your teampassionately talking about it,
like, you're that's when you Iget excited. Like, we're really
starting to grow leaders.

Alex Judd (46:36):
Can you speak to the role that Isela plays in you
leading the business, but alsojust the life that y'all live?

Jonathan Duarte (46:46):
Yeah. Poor Isela. She, I can honestly say I
would not be here today, withouther in my life. And, yeah, who
knows where I'd be? I mean,outside of Jesus, like, she's
she's my rock and, you know,when I the reason I say poor
Araceli because I've I think Ithe business was going so well,

(47:08):
and naturally, as a leader,you're always focused on the
things that you need to fix.
And so that's all she would everhear. And so sometimes she would
be like, why are we even doingthis? You know, be because she
was my so I'm trying to learn toalso share the wins with her.
That's right. Because, you know,she, you know, she

Alex Judd (47:24):
Yeah. I've noticed that with Aspen. Like, she's
like my verbal processor forproblems, but it's like that we
don't have conversations about,what went well today if you're
not careful.

Jonathan Duarte (47:32):
So and so and just our relationship, you know,
I've I started mentoring with aman, and he just every week just
challenges me to grow in mymarriage as a leader, to lead my
family well. And, so she justshe's always had a deep desire
for truth and to be a followerof Jesus, and so that just man,

(47:53):
when you have somebody like thatto walk alongside when you get a
little sideways, it just bringsyou back to center. And, so,
yeah, there's nothing like doinglife with your best friend.

Alex Judd (48:02):
Oh, man. Praise God. Yeah. What what are the messages
that your mentor because you andI have spoken about this before.
He's influenced your view ofmarriage a lot, it sounds like.
What are the messages or truthsthat he's imparted to you that
have been most impactful?

Jonathan Duarte (48:19):
Number one is that marriage is my number one
ministry. I can be successful inbusiness or even in serving the
Lord in different areas and bebusy in the church. But if I'm
not taking care of my household,there's a scripture that says
something worse than an infidel,and that necessarily is not just
financial. I always heard thattaught as a financial term, but
I think it's much deeper than afinancial term. And so he's

(48:42):
always reminding me.
She's my number one mystery. Healways asked me, does Isela feel
like God's gift to you? And haveyou told her that she is? So I I
don't think I'd ever told herthat, you know, before, I
started mentoring with him. Hereally challenged me.
We'd prayed together a littlebit, but he really challenged me

(49:04):
to, like, pray together. Like,there's something that happens
by praying together. If you lookat I don't know the exact
numbers, but it almosteliminates divorce. Like, people
that pray together and divorce,like, those things really almost
never happen. Right?
It's like the easiest thing thatyou can do to almost eliminate
divorce. So so he's challengedme in that and then just to be

(49:26):
in God's word together. And so,you know, he he he, he always
asks like, how how's your eyes?How's your prayer life? How's
your time in God's word?
And then those are the threequestions he'll ask me.

Alex Judd (49:38):
I love how simple that is. Why so you come out the
gate pretty hot if someone'stalking to you, talking about
the importance of prioritizingmarriage, even if they're asking
you business and leadershipquestions. Why?

Jonathan Duarte (49:52):
I think because we bring ourselves to work.
Right? And so if we don't havehealthy relationships outside of
work, it's really hard to have ahealthy business because, I
mean, you know, we've beenmarried ten years and, you know,
nothing's perfect. Right? Andwhen we're a little sideways
about an argument or whatever,like, work's a struggle, you

(50:13):
know?
So I think, like, like, takingcare of that is so essential for
me to lead the others in thebusiness well because then I'm
centered. Right? And so if I'mnot centered, how am I gonna
lead somebody else well? So Ithink it starts with my
relationship with Jesus andrelationship with wife and then
then my relationships at work.

Alex Judd (50:31):
Before the final question, one of the things that
I'm just so stoked about withhaving this in person podcast
space is in a one hour podcastconversation, you can learn a
lot about a person's perspectiveand their advice, but you don't
really get to know that muchabout their character in their
life. And what's so cool aboutnow bringing people in in person
or connecting with people inperson is it's like we went to

(50:53):
church with you and Isela andMario yesterday, and then we had
lunch with y'all. And I've knowny'all for years, and it's just
like you're not just spoutingadvice, here today. Like, you're
you're telling a story about howyou and your family have chosen
to live, and it's such ablessing to me because I feel
inspired by the fruit that it'screating. And so I just wanna
man, I wanna commend you onthat.

(51:14):
I'm so grateful we get to sharethat with other people. The
final question that I have foryou is at church yesterday, the
message that we got to hear wasbasically the importance of,
like, keeping what Jesus hasdone in and for you fresh. Mhmm.
Right? Like, never allowing itto become familiar.
Like, what what is the messagethat your prayer for yourself,

(51:38):
but also for other leaders,what's the message that you hope
we keep fresh? Like, that wehope we stay emotionally
connected to and that we neverallow to become familiar and
just get into the grind or themundane and miss the message.
How deeply

Jonathan Duarte (51:57):
that we need the grace of God. And and that's
that's why I told you my kind ofmy journey with praise because
when you get to when you startto really praise him from your
inner being, you usually praisehim from your broken spots that
he's healed. And so that bringsa constant reminder of how
broken we are and howdesperately we need Jesus. And

(52:21):
just finished a book, The NextConversation by Jefferson
Fisher, fantastic book. But he'salso says, like, the person that
we see on the outside is not theperson on inside.
And so I think when you see thatyou're broken, you can just see
you start seeing peopledifferently, you know, and and
even when we're going throughdifficult times as I've been
through with, you know, businessrelationships, partnerships, all

(52:42):
this stuff, there's strugglesthere. But when you look at
somebody as this is a child ofGod, how would he want me to
treat them? You approach it alittle bit differently. Right?
And so I think just viewingyourself as that child of God
and in need of his grace allowsyou to extend it so well.
So I think, like, that was sogood yesterday of just, like,
that that that message shouldnever grow old to us. I hope my

(53:06):
eyes never don't get a littleteary eyed when we talk about
how much that he's healed mefrom, how gracious and kind he
has been to me. Praise god, man.

Alex Judd (53:15):
Thank you.

Jonathan Duarte (53:16):
Yeah. Thank you.

Alex Judd (53:18):
Well, there you have it. Thanks so much for joining
us for this episode. If you wantany of the information or
resources that we mentioned,that's all in the show notes.
Hey. Before you go, could I askyou for one quick favor?
Could you subscribe, rate, andreview this podcast episode?
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(53:38):
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Are you a leader that wants togrow your business in a healthy

(53:59):
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(54:22):
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