Higher Standards for Impact-Driven Leaders

Impact-driven leaders are committed to reaching a higher standard — in consistency, in quality, in intentionality, in relationships, and ultimately, in growth. In this episode Alex and Ben discuss the importance of these 5 areas and what it looks like to hold yourself to a higher standard in each one. They also share examples of organizations who have established and maintained high standards, and they caution leaders to avoid overindexing in any one area at the expense of others. 

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Episode Recap:

• To be an impact-driven leader is to commit to a higher standard 
• These 5 standards are necessary ingredients for making an impact 
• How can leaders avoid overindexing on these things? 
• What organizations have established standards well?  
• 1. Consistency: If you want to build a consistent team, you must show up consistently as a leader  
• 2. Quality: Focus on serving, selling, and scaling in that order 
• 3. Intentionality: Your intention drives your attention  
• 4. Relationship: When you invest in your people, it will pay off in dividends  
• 5. Growth: If you don’t define healthy growth for your business, you’ll adopt the standards of people around you  

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Episode Transcript

Alex Judd (00:02):
So we were doing a three day in person experience
in Colorado Springs, gosh, abouta year and a half ago now. And
one of the things that we alwaysdo for our in person experiences
is we choose a theme that we'regonna center all of the content,
of the conversation, all of thedirection for the leaders in the
room around. And we had about 40leaders at this particular
experience. And the theme ofthis experience was a higher

(00:24):
standard. And the way that wedefined a higher standard in the
opening talk was the decision tobe held accountable to an
elevated benchmark.
And so the first thing that wesaid is it's a decision. It's
something that you voluntarilyopt in for. And then you're
saying, I'm going to applymyself to a higher bar, to a
higher benchmark, to a higherstandard. Right? That's the

(00:47):
definition that we wereoperating with.
And for the opening talk, one ofthe things that I thought would
be a really cool exercise was tokind of ask the question, what
are the nonnegotiable base levelhigher standards of impact
driven leaders? Because wealways say, you know, our
company exists to help impactdriven leaders, people that view

(01:09):
their business, their career,their work, their life even as a
vehicle to make difference inthe lives of others. And so the
way I came at this particularlesson is I just made a list of
impact driven leaders. Peoplethat I look at and like, I'm
like, man, those people reallyexemplify what we're talking
about when we use that that nameor that title. And then I also

(01:29):
made a list of impact drivenbrands.
And I looked at this list ofimpact driven leaders and impact
driven brands, and then I justasked the question, what do all
of these have in common? Andwhat we ended up with is a list
of five core attributes, fivehigher standards of impact
driven leaders, and that'sreally what we're gonna be kind
of diving into and having aconversation around today.

Ben Loy (01:51):
Why higher standards and why these higher standards?
Like, what specifically aboutthese and, I guess, their
nature? I mean, you can listthem now if you'd like Yeah. And
that would probably be helpful.

Alex Judd (02:01):
So why a higher standard? Particularly for
impact driven leaders. Well, wealready said this. If you wanna
be an impact driven leader,you're saying, I wanna make a
difference. I I can't evenremember who said this, but
someone once said, everyonewants to make a difference, but
no one's willing to bedifferent.
It's like, that's kind of trueand probably more true now than

(02:22):
whoever originally said that.Right? And so what we're saying
here is these are the thingsthat you may even run the risk
of over indexing on. Right?These are the things that you're
really gonna apply yourself tobecause in some ways, I would
say these things are thenecessary ingredients if you
want to make an impact.

(02:42):
Right? It's kinda like we'rebaking a chocolate cake, and
there's none of that gluten freecrap here. Right? Like, we're
saying, you can't skip one ofthese. Right?
It's not an option. Therethere's no one of these five
that you're going to leave outif you're going to make a
positive, healthy, sustainableimpact is kind of the claim that
I would make. So we'll list thefive, and then these are what
we'll dive deeper into inconversation if that sounds

(03:04):
good. Number one is quality.Number two is consistency.
Three is intentionality. Four isrelationship, and five is
growth. Now my hope is that noone listening to this podcast
hears one of those, like, what?That is revolutionary. I've
never thought about that.
And and we all know I think itwas Socrates that said learning

(03:26):
is often remembering. And theissue isn't that we don't know
these things. The issue is thatoftentimes we don't do these
things. And for me, some of thepodcasts that I'm most
interested in are the ones thatrecenter me to the things that
actually matter most. So that'sone of the goals of this
conversation.

Ben Loy (03:43):
You mentioned over indexing as, like, that that
being a possibility. Can youexplain more on that?

Alex Judd (03:49):
Well, the way I'm kinda talking about these today
is not all that dissimilar fromthe way we teach and talk about
core values within companies andmaybe core values personally
too. And I'll never forget whenI read in Pat Lencioni's The
Advantage, brilliant book onorganizational culture, One of
his criteria for something to bea core value for a company is he

(04:14):
says, you know it's a core valueif you're willing to accept that
it may get taken too far. And hesaid because otherwise, it's
probably not a core value. Itmight be like a an aspirational
value or a nice thing, but it'snot a necessary thing. That
that's kind of what we meanwhenever we're talking about
over indexing.
We're we're saying like, it'spossible to obsess over these.

(04:36):
It's possible to become a littlebit overboard on some of these
things because you're so drivenand passionate about making an
impact. Now, we've talked aboutat length before on this
podcast, like, don't thinkobsession, especially sustained
obsession, is a good thing. But,you know, it's kinda like you
might be a redneck if, well, youmight be an impact driven leader

(04:56):
if you are prone or have apropensity to going overboard on
these things for a season or fora time.

Ben Loy (05:05):
It also makes me think, like, there's a reason why there
are five that exist or why oftencompanies or organizations want
to have multiple core values,because sometimes those other
core values might actually addchecks and balances to
overemphasizing a specific traitor standard. Yeah. What are your
thoughts on that?

Alex Judd (05:22):
So it's almost like how do we make holistic
sustained healthy impact? It isa really good question, and it's
not by saying, oh, man. This isour season of growth. And then
after our season of growth,we're gonna have a season of
consistency. It's like, no.
I think healthy sustainedimpact, which we're now adding
qualifiers to this. We're notjust talking about impact.
Right? It says, I'm gonna find away to simultaneously grow and

(05:48):
be consistent and prioritizerelationships. Right?
Like, we're we're gonna do allthree. And to the degree that we
have to abandon some to focus onothers, we're not applying
ourselves to healthy growth,which is obviously what our
company is all about.

Ben Loy (06:03):
Low hanging fruit, what are some telltale signs that
maybe you don't have enoughestablished standards in your
organization or in your team?

Alex Judd (06:12):
Oh, that's an interesting thought. I'd love to
know your response to thisquestion too, But I guess what I
would say is what I often runinto, especially with impact
driven leaders, is not that theydon't have standards. They don't
have what you said. They don'thave established, defined,
formalized, and documentedstandards. And so the telltale

(06:35):
sign is they are frustratedbecause they have all these
expectations in their head ofhow they think the business
should work or how the teamshould operate or how
interactions and communicationshould occur.
And then they walk around theiroffice or they observe an
interaction, and they actuallylike the team member. Right?

(06:55):
It's not like they they thinkthe team member is an idiot or
something like that. Theyactually like the team member,
they think they're a goodperson. And they just look at
them like, how do you not getthis?
How do you not understand?Because they think that everyone
just sees the world the way theydo. They think that everyone has
their standards. And in reality,we all have standards. Right?
The standards that we eithertolerate, that we adopt, or that

(07:16):
we inherit. And a good leaderhelps their team intentionally
adopt the standards that theywanna apply across the
organization as a whole.

Ben Loy (07:26):
What are some examples of organizations or teams or
individuals who have establishedstandards well?

Alex Judd (07:35):
I mean, Chick fil A stands out. And then if we wanna
watch our waistline a littlebit, I would say Lifetime
Fitness is probably a little bitmore of a healthy approach than
Chick fil A. It's always funnyto me because Chick fil A has
such established standards, Ilegit think people go in there
and they're like, I'm making thehealthy choice today. It's like,

(07:56):
you are literally eating friedchicken. It's like it's like but
they convinced everyone, like,oh, we're so good as an
organization.
They're a healthy organization,so it's healthy food. It's not
healthy food. Yeah. You're stilleating fried chicken and french
fries. But, I mean, my pleasureis probably the greatest
example.
I I don't know if I've told youthis story before. One time I
was in a Chick fil A, andsomeone dropped a piece of trash

(08:18):
on the floor, and I just bentdown and grabbed it for him. And
they said, oh, thanks so much.And I said, my pleasure. And
then I looked down, and I waswearing a red shirt, and I was
like, they definitely think Iwork here right now.
But, right, that's a standardthat is literally, like, so
ingrained, my pleasure, that ithas transcended beyond the
counter that now their customersunderstand it and even come to

(08:41):
expect it. Right? When I thinkabout lifetime fitness, this
goes to what we talked about ona previous podcast episode,
language creates culture. I scanmy, entry pass on my phone for
lifetime fitness, and then Iwalk in, and the first thing the
person at the desk says is enjoyyour workout. They always say
that, and you can tell that's aningrained standard.

(09:02):
The other thing that stands outto me is a a lot of those things
are like customer interactionand interface. There's two other
things that stand out to meabout Lifetime Fitness that are
clearly standards that they'veestablished is if I tell them,
hey. I'm bringing someone on aguest pass, which they have an
unbelievable guest pass programthat I think for them is
actually just brilliantmarketing. Right? But the first

(09:23):
thing the person at the desk andI have done this at multiple
locations around the country,the the person at the desk will
say, okay.
Why don't you come around backhere, and I'll make sure I get
you set up on this iPad to getyour guest checked in. So
they've clearly understood thatwe do not want a line backing up
as the first thing people see,or we don't want people crowding
the desk. So the minute you havesomething that is gonna take a

(09:45):
little bit longer, you bringthem around to the back of this
circular desk that we have atthe front. Pretty awesome. The
the final one that stand out,and then I'd love to hear your
thought on brands that exemplifyhigh standards or that hold
standards well, is at Lifetime.
Well, let's talk about aprevious gym that shall not be
named that I used to go to.Right? This gym did not have as

(10:06):
high standards as Lifetime, andstuff would break. And literally
what they would do when stuffwould break, which was literally
all the time. And sometimes it'slike, that's the only machine
that you have that's broken.
And it would be like, I mean,the equivalent of a
kindergartener riding withcrayon on a sheet of paper
broken. Right? And it's justlike that that is a small thing.

(10:27):
But one of the things that we'reabout to talk about in these
higher standards of impactdriven leaders is the way you do
anything is the way you doeverything. Right?
What does Lifetime do? Theyliterally have this templatized
printed sheet that says thismachine is currently out of
service. It will be repaired byblank. And then they write in
the date. Yeah.
And so they are basicallysaying, and it even has an

(10:50):
apology on it, I think. They'rebasically saying like, man, the
value that you pay for isn'tcurrently operational. However,
we are making a commitment toyou that it's gonna be backed by
x y z. So in some ways, they'remaking a decision to be held
accountable to something in thatway. And that's just, like, such
a small thing that for me, assomeone that's paying a monthly
fee to go there, I'm like, yes.

(11:10):
That is worth the extra that Ipay to go to this gym versus the
kindergartner that wrote brokenand crayon on a machine.

Ben Loy (11:18):
Yeah. Well, first, I think the most shocking thing to
me from the Chick fil A story isthat you're wearing a red shirt.

Alex Judd (11:24):
This is years ago. Years and years ago. This is a
previous I've been born again.Into black,

Ben Loy (11:30):
I guess. Yeah. That's right. But, yeah, I mean, I know
I've shared with you the twothat stick out to me the most
are both organizations I'veworked for or companies I've
worked for, and the first one isis First Watch, the breakfast
cafe. Mhmm.
They at the time, I actually gothired into a locally run
breakfast restaurant chain Mhmm.And they got bought out by First

(11:53):
Watch. And so I was there towitness them come into a
preexisting organization andcompletely rebrand and establish
their standards for whatexcellence was. And so it gave
me a really unique opportunityto actually help open five
different restaurants in theTucson area and see those
standards, like, played out andtrained multiple times over and

(12:17):
over and over again. And one ofthe things that just really
stuck out to me was I mean, inmany ways, I think you you
touched on this.
Like, in any gym across America,if a piece of equipment is
broken and the staff knows aboutit, there is a there is an
expectation that there's gonnabe at least a sticky note on it
that says, hey, this is broken,like, don't use it. Right? Mhmm.

(12:38):
But going beyond the bareminimum and establishing a set
of expectations and standardsthat communicate excellence, it
just takes an extra layer ofintentionality. So with First
Watch, one of the things, youknow, you have your five steps
of service, which are anindustry standard of just like
the steps you need to take, theactual physical actions you need

(13:00):
to have and interactions youneed to have with the table to
get them from walking in thedoor, sat at the table, to food
ordered, bill dropped, and thenthey leave.
And so that's something you canlook up on Google. You just type
in the five steps of service ofwaiting a table, and, like,
it'll show up. They, however,established an entirely new set
of rules, and they called themthe 10 commandments of first
watch. And you had to have themcompletely memorized and

(13:23):
essentially mapped out fromstart to finish what serving a
table under the standards ofFirst Watch and their core
values and how they wantedpeople to experience their
restaurant, looked like. Andthat was greeting a table within
two minutes with a cup with apot of fresh hot coffee, and if
they have coffee, leaving thatat the table.
You know, orders taken within, Ithink it was four minutes, food

(13:45):
arrives within ten minutes, billis dropped off halfway through
the meal so that they don't feelrushed, but at the same time can
leave whenever they want, andthen clearing the table and
making sure that they're they'retaken care of. And then I think
their last commandment was like,accomplish all prior
commandments with, like, aposture of hospitality and a
smile or something like that.And so it was just there is the

(14:09):
expectation, there's the fivesteps of service of, like, here
are here are the five things youneed to do per the industry that
result in, mostly, like, peoplecoming in, being fed, paying and
leaving. And then there's thestandard they set, which was,
here are the standards we haveput in place to to create a
culture that gives the customera good and consistent experience

(14:32):
when they walk into ourrestaurant.

Alex Judd (16:15):
What's so cool is I I don't even really remember how
it came up, but I have been kindof enamored with First Watch's
service for quite a while nowbecause there's so many things
that I look at, and I'm like,that feels intentional. And I
you know, they're they're ascaled company now. Right? So
it's same everywhere you go,which anytime I see that, I'm

(16:36):
like, that's remarkable. Andthen I I can't even remember how
it came up, I think I wastalking to you and you were
like, oh, I worked there for andI was like, praise God.
We get to go under the hood.This is gonna be really fun.
But, here's what I think it canbe really tempting and easy to
believe as a leader. If you'rein the quick service food

(16:57):
industry or something like that,you're like, man, the thing that
First Watch has cracked the codeon is they've got some reservoir
of really great people that theyhire that are just, like, they
just show up great. And and,man, First Watch has somehow
cracked the code on findingexceptional talent.
And if I could find theexceptional talent that First

(17:18):
Watch is able to hire, then wewould have the same results as
First Watch. And in reality,that's actually not what it is.
It's they do hire good people,and I'm sure they have a hiring
process, but then they justestablish standards that they
say people like us do thingslike this, and they create a
culture where, you know, if youhave a really emboldening and

(17:40):
honestly, think biblical view ofpeople, it's like most people
most of the time are actuallytrying to do the best that they
can and you can really servethem whenever you create, hey,
this is what winning looks likewithin this role within this
restaurant.

Ben Loy (17:52):
Mhmm. I think the other example, and this is a much more
intense and extreme example ofwhen standards are done really
well, would be the Coast Guard.Like, we actually just crossed
over the twentieth anniversaryfor Katrina about a week ago,
and you just look back at theway that they respond to to
hurricanes and the naturaldisasters. And specifically, on

(18:15):
the aviation side, which is whatI was familiar with, the
intentionality in the way

Alex Judd (18:20):
that

Ben Loy (18:21):
they establish standards across the fleet and
across the country is reallyincredible. And the way that
that looks is, you know, in thein the context of Katrina,
right, storm goes off in NewOrleans, thousands of people
without power, without access toresources, stranded often, and

(18:42):
you can pull a pilot from NorthBend, Oregon, and a flight
mechanic and a rescue swimmerfrom Atlantic City, New Jersey,
and you can stick them in anaircraft in New Orleans
basically overnight, and they'retalking the same language.
They're operating under theexact same standards in the same

(19:03):
aircraft, and can accomplish themission and, honestly, save
thousands of lives because thosestandards have been put into
place and established. And thereis actually, like, a team
exclusively dedicated tomaintaining those standards and
establishing those standardsacross the fleet year round.

Alex Judd (19:22):
And I think you share with me that the Coast Guard is
uniquely effective at that interms of our nation's armed
forces. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. So, Imean, that that's so cool.
I think sometimes we thinkwhenever we talk about scaling a
company, we say scaling companyis incredibly complex. Right?
And the reason why we say thatis because it's incredibly

(19:42):
complex, but we think that theroute to scale effectively is
equally complex. And in reality,how do you counter complexity
effectively? It's simplicity.
And so often, the thing that Isee in companies that want to go
from one location to twolocations or two locations to

(20:03):
five locations or things likethat. We work with a lot of
companies that are at thatcritical juncture of saying,
man, we've crushed it at thislocation. We now wanna do
multiple locations or multiplebusiness units or things like
that. We work with a lot ofpeople that are doing that. The
people that do it effectivelyare the ones that make
ruthlessly simple and and theydocument it.

(20:24):
What are the things that we dothat make us successful? And it
sounds like that's what thecoast guard has done really,
really well.

Ben Loy (20:30):
Yeah. Yeah. Doubling down on what's working. Mhmm.
Yeah.
Let's talk a little bit aboutconsistency. What is the
difference between consistencyand intensity? And, I guess,
what are some of the challengesthere as a leader that seem to
creep in?

Alex Judd (20:47):
So, yeah, let's go from the organizational
viewpoint of things now to theindividual person. I mean, the
way I experience it is, like,you will have seasons of
intensity. Right? And and Iguess the way I'm thinking about
intensity right now, it is whereyou are maybe living on the edge

(21:08):
of failure. Right?
Like, you are exerting yourselfin a very, very deliberate and
forceful way in multiple arenasof your life. Right? I mean, I I
would say personally for me,like, got married in the past
two years, had our first kid.First kid gets diagnosed with an
extremely rare genetic disorder,and we've got a business that is

(21:31):
experiencing a lot of growthright now and a lot of
fruitfulness. But part of thatis we've had a lot of changes on
the team, and it's only a fiveyear business.
And so for me, the past probablysix months to a year have felt
like a season of greatintensity. And in some ways,
chaos can be used to describesome of those arenas. Now I
think it can be really easy tofall for. It's a lie. Is that,

(21:54):
man, if I feel chaos or if Ifeel like there are certain
things out of control, then Ijust gonna kinda have to throw
up my hands and say, well, thisis a chaotic season, and I'm
just gonna basically surrenderto the chaos.
And in reality, I would say it'sthe exact opposite approach is
probably most helpful is that,man, in seasons where certain
arenas feel chaotic or unknownor uncertain, that's when it

(22:19):
will benefit you the most tobasically subdue some of that
chaos into order in your life.So whether that's like, dad gum
it, I am going to wake up at thesame time every single morning,
period, end of story. Or I am,you know, I do five at five
every January. Like, I don'tcare what's going on in the
outside world. I'm going to dofive miles at 5AM, six days a

(22:40):
week in the month of January.
And it's wild how you could lookat that and be like, okay. Well,
this is a really tiring season.Is that actually the best thing
to do? I I've done it now for,gosh, like, nine or ten years or
something like that. I havenever had a year where it wasn't
the right thing to do.
Mhmm. Right? Because it's like Ienter into the day after doing
that, and it's like I'veestablished, I've I've

(23:01):
accomplished something duringthe day, I've sweated. I've put
my mind on the right things, andI enter in so I might be tired,
but at least I'm able to counterthe chaos with the level of
consistency. Right?
You know, it's why we focus incoaching on leaders establishing
a high return habit before theydo anything else in their
business because we believe thatif you wanna put your business

(23:21):
in order, you should start byputting yourself in order. And
the cool thing about that is youdo not need to change
everything. What we say iswhat's the one thing that you
would do? And that's animportant question. Would do.
Not could do. Would do. What'sthe one thing that you would do
that if you were to do it, itwould make you know, it would
have a larger ramifications forevery other part of your life.

(23:43):
And what's crazy is peoplechoose pretty simple things, but
those simple things when they dothem every day, oh my gosh. The
the ripple effect of that isjust so powerful.

Ben Loy (23:53):
Yeah. So we talked, I guess, about personally, then

(25:00):
when you're when you're carryingthat beyond yourself, what are
some practical considerations totake when trying to communicate
that consistency beyond justyourself?

Alex Judd (25:12):
I honestly think the most practical consideration for
me if I want a consistent teamand a consistent organization is
I have to be a consistentperson. Like, I actually think
that is the most practicalbecause I don't think the
consistency of your team, like,let's what's the proper
principle based way to say this?Your organizational consistency

(25:33):
will never exceed your personalconsistency is is how I would
think

Ben Loy (25:36):
of it.

Alex Judd (25:37):
And so so often, visionary leaders say we just
need to be more consistent. Weneed to be more consistent. And
the first question I would askis, do people experience you as
consistent? Because to thedegree that you are, I bet your
organization almost can't helpbut follow in some ways. But to
the degree that you're not, someways, you're being hypocritical
because you're asking theorganization to do something

(25:59):
that you can't do.

Ben Loy (26:00):
Yeah. Yep. Tell me about a time that showing up or
being consistent was ruthlesslyinconvenient at the time, but
then, like, paid off individends later on.

Alex Judd (26:13):
This is a deeper story that, you know, it it's
actually currently right now inthe book that we're writing.
It's the way that I start thebook, so we won't tell the whole
story right now. But my firstjob out of college, I actually
got fired from. And it was it itwas that would be dramatic for
anyone. Right?
It was I would put it in thecategory of traumatic for me

(26:35):
mainly because if I struggledwith idolizing anything whenever
I was, you know, in my earlytwenties, it was work, right?
And suddenly and I think thatwas actually part of the
problem. Like, I ended upgetting fired from my job, and,
I mean, the slate basically gotwiped clean for months, right?
And I still look back at thatand I say, like, that single,

(26:57):
like, it was four to six monthperiod was my fork in the road
moment, right? Where it's like,you are either gonna lay down
and just quit on life becauseyou feel like life has quit on
you, or you're gonna takeresponsibility and you're gonna
choose to see this seasonredeemed.
And one of the things thathappened right before I ended up

(27:19):
losing my job was I had done acouple I had done a handful of
marathons, and I had done a fewhalf Ironmans. And I would
always go to the gym, and Iwould see this guy from my
church at the gym all the time,this older guy, really
successful businessman. Love theguy. His name is Dirk. And still
stay in touch with him anytime Igo back down to Austin.
He would always just encourageme. He's like, when are you

(27:40):
gonna do a full, Alex? When areyou gonna do a full, Ironman?
Like, come on. When's it coming?
And like we talked about before,he believed more in me than I
believed in myself. And finally,he asked me one day at the gym.
He said, dude, you done allthese half ironmans. When are
you gonna do a full ironman? AndI said, man, I want to.
It's just it's a lot of time,and it's a lot of money. And he
said, Alex, if you make thetime, I'll make the money. And

(28:01):
he showed up church the nextSunday with a thousand dollars
cash and handed to me. Wow.Yeah.
That's that's

Ben Loy (28:05):
how much an Ironman cost.

Alex Judd (28:06):
Right? It's an expensive high maintenance
sport. Yeah. And and so he tookaway all my excuses. There's
more we could talk on thatstory, but unbelievable, like,
vote of confidence.
So that happens. I sign up forthe iron man, and then
literally, a few months later, Ilose my job. And so now we're in
this blank space period, and Ihave this decision of am I gonna

(28:27):
quit on life, or am I gonna keepmoving forward and see this
season redeemed? And the thingthat kept me on track was I have
that finish line in, like, fivemonths, and I've gotta be ready
for that. Like, I can't I mean,there's no off days when you're
getting ready for an Ironman.
Right? And I had this hugetraining plan laid out, and it
was ruthlessly inconvenient.That is the exact phrase I would

(28:50):
use Sounds about right. To,like, have to get ready for
that. But I praise God for thefact that in some ways, like, I
had such a massive reason to beconsistent in that season
because, doing my daily workoutto get ready for that 140 mile
triathlon had so many, like,effects, ramifications,

(29:12):
implications for me opening mybible after I finished working
out, for me praying, for metaking the job hunt really,
really seriously and thinkingabout the next, you know, 10 of
my life really, reallyseriously.
And in so many ways, I reallythink that the man that I am
today, praise God, is a directresult of the fact that I had to

(29:33):
be consistent in that season.Wow. Yeah. I don't think I've
shared that with you before. No.

Ben Loy (29:39):
Yeah. That's that's incredible.

Alex Judd (29:40):
Yeah. I mean, it was a good question, but that's why
that I mean, I I would notqualify myself as a very
consistent person before thatfuneral And so, yeah, like,
that's why I'm so passionateabout sharing this with leaders
around the country now isbecause you have no idea the
type of person you could be ifyou would just be consistent.

(30:01):
Mhmm.

Ben Loy (30:02):
Yeah. That's really funny because I feel like when I
met you back in was it 2022, Ithink, when you moved Mike.
Yeah. Yeah. I I feel likeconsistency was one of the words
I most likely would havedescribed you as, like, a
consistent individual.
You know? Yeah. That's reallyinteresting.

Alex Judd (30:19):
And that's why I think you and I are both
passionate about physicalchallenges in some ways because
they enforce consistency in away that, you're almost
embodying it, and it affectsother areas of your life. Right?
And and so I would say if youwant to be more consistent in
your business as a leader, Iactually think that's really

(30:42):
hard. I I think that's harderfor me. Right?
Like, I I'll have seasons whereit's like, wanna consistently
write for an hour every singleday. And that's really hard
because you don't get the samepayoff at the end of that hour.
At the end of a workout, though,you get the payoff. And so what
I would tell people is if you'relooking for a way to instill
consistency, do it in thephysical realm first, and and

(31:06):
don't be shocked when thatstarts to have a lot of
implications for your work, foryour marriage, for all those
other areas. Mhmm.
Right?

Ben Loy (31:15):
So the next one on here is is quality. And one of the
things that stuck out to me inthe story you just shared was
this guy creating an environmentfor you to be consistent, right?
Mhmm. And like growinconsistency and and pursue
this thing. And I guess what'sthe difference with creating

(31:36):
expectations for the people thatare following you versus
creating an environment for thepeople that are following you?
Yeah. And how is that related toquality?

Alex Judd (31:45):
Well, in some ways, I think expectations versus
environment or expectationsversus culture might be what
we're talking about. If we'retalking about organizationally,
might be expectations are thefirst nine commandments of First
Watch's 10 commandments. Cultureis the tenth commandment, right?

(32:06):
Because I think, you know, youcould probably say it better
than I could, like people attheir table in the first two
minutes or or, you know, you'reinteracting with the table at
the first two minutes and thefirst, you know, ten minutes
they've ordered their food,right? They get you you set all
the basically, the expectationsfor how the service operates.
And then the tenth commandmentwas heart of hospitality and

(32:28):
service essentially. And it'slike, you could do one through
nine exceptionally well, and ifyou suck at ten, it's not gonna
matter. And so we need thestandard expectations so that
people actually have the toolsto win. But then we have to pair
that with the culture, which insome ways, culture is just your
organizational attitude. Right?

(32:48):
Like, we you have a personalattitude that you want, and it's
really easy to express. It'sreally easy to be a positive
person when you're around otherpositive people. It's really
easy to be a hospitable personwhen you're around other
hospitable people. And so Iwould say focus on what are the
attitudes that you want peopleto personally hold, and then how
does your organization how isyour organization set up so that

(33:13):
that type of person just says,oh, man. I'm just around my
people in some ways Yeah.
Is what I think of.

Ben Loy (33:19):
So when do we start to deviate from quality?

Alex Judd (33:22):
I think that's a really good question, especially
in the context of impact drivenleaders because there's no one
that we work with, right, that,like, is actively trying to
create a bad service, badproduct, or even mediocre.
Everyone is very committed toquality. How do we
unintentionally drift? And Ithink we mess up the order of

(33:45):
operations is essentially, Ithink, what happens. And this
actually connects to what wealready talked about at the very
beginning, which is we overprioritize growth.
We over index. Right? We lean sofar into growth. And so the
order that I think is proper interms of the way we're
approaching how we are growingour organization is, number one,

(34:07):
get really clear and consistenton the question, how do we
serve? Right?
What do we serve and how do weserve? And and that's you really
understanding both your customerbase, your product, and you
getting maniacally consistentand deliberate about making sure
that your product really meetsthe needs and solves the problem

(34:29):
of your customer. Right? So howdo we serve and what do we serve
is the first question. Thesecond question is how do we
sell?
But we go off the rails onquality whenever we ask, how do
we sell this before we get intohow do we serve people? That's
why we had, we had chips andguac with your brother the other

(34:49):
day, right? And your brother'sgrowing a business specifically
for training, like, world classprofessional swimmers because
your brother's a professionalswimmer to teach technique and
run clinics and provide coachingfor swimmers around the country.
It's an unbelievable businessthat's already seeing, like,
pretty incredible success earlyon. And it's interesting talking

(35:11):
to your brother, like, it'salmost like money is a side
thing for him.
Right? It's like, he's sodeliberately focused on how do
we make sure these kids theirparents see that we can help
them learn these techniques, wecan help them improve in the
pool, we can increase theirwater confidence, all that. And
then how do we set up ourcoaches that we're going to hire

(35:31):
to be able to make a livingoutside of Olympic years? And
he's so focused on those twothings that it's like those are
taking the lion's share of hisattention and energy right now.
And it's like he's asking it inorder.
He's asking how do we serve? Andthen you can start to say, once
we've got that, how do we sell?A lot of people, they say,
what's going to sell? And thenwe'll figure out how to serve on

(35:52):
the back end out of order. Andthen the third question is how
do we scale?
And it's supposed to be in thatorder. How do we serve? How do
we sell? And then how do wescale? But I see a lot of
companies out there that theycreate something mediocre that
people don't actually want, andthen they ask the question, how
do we scale?
It's like, dude, like, go backto the beginning Yeah. And just

(36:15):
focus on serving people reallywell.

Ben Loy (36:17):
Yeah. And I mean, really, the thing that I I hear
across a lot of the topics we'vealready hit is in is that piece
of intentionality.

Alex Judd (36:26):
Yes.

Ben Loy (36:26):
Right? Like, being ruthlessly intentional about
what are you about, what is yourpurpose, where are you going,
and then what are, like, whatare the steps that you're
planning to take to to getthere. Right?

Alex Judd (36:39):
Which that's the that's the third higher standard
of impact driven leaders. Sonumber one that we talked about
was consistency. Number two isquality. And then number three
is establishing a sense ofintentionality. Right?
I think, the word intentionalactually gets overused,
especially in leadership culturein that we forget what it

(36:59):
actually means. Right? We thinkthat, oh, I wanna be an
intentional person. We thinkthat means I wanna be a good
person. When you say I want tobe an intentional person, I want
to be an intentional leader.
I wanna be an intentionalhusband. What are you saying?
You're saying, I want to be aperson, leader, husband that
operates with a decided anddesired sense of intent. It
means that I have an aim. Itmeans that I do exactly what

(37:21):
Stephen Covey talked about,which is mean means I'm gonna
start with the end in mind.
And we wash that out when wethink intentional just means
good. Right? It was so cool. Iwas texting back and forth with
one of our customers earliertoday, and he's thinking about
coming with a member of his teamto our next in person experience
in Austin that we're doingfocused on long game leadership.

(37:43):
And I was just going back andforth with him on, like, the
decision that he's working on,and he said, hey.
I I think we're gonna come, butI'm not a 100% yet. He said the
thing that we talked about thisweekend is my wife sitting down
and making a list on what wouldhave to be true for me to go on
this trip and for it to be a winfor you and the family for me to

(38:03):
go. And I read that, and I waslike, praise God. Like, if you
end up not being able to come,that's totally cool because,
like, that's the type ofintentionality that we're
talking about. Right?
And it's it's just having theguts to ask the question, what
does winning look like?

Ben Loy (38:17):
Yeah. I think it's Matt Chandler says a lot, in the
context of your relationshipwith the Lord, if you're not,
like, you're being formed bysomething. Mhmm. Right? And just
what you're being formed by is amatter of how intentional you
are being with your relationshipwith the Lord.
Like, you're either being formedby God and by His word, or
you're being formed by somethingelse. And it's really your

(38:40):
choice based on howintentionally you want to be on
what that is.

Alex Judd (38:44):
Yeah. The principle that stands out to me from that
is, like, your intention drivesyour attention, and your
attention forms you. Right? I II'll never forget. There was
this was years ago now that wewere we had had a family dinner,
and my grandma Williams was atthe table.
And I can't even remember thecontext of this, but, like,

(39:05):
someone wasn't listening to whatyou're grandma Williams is a
personality and a half too. Sothis was just a moment. Right?
And, someone wasn't listening orsomeone wasn't getting what she
was saying, and she just said,pay attention. Pay attention.
And I heard that, and I waslike, that's the first time I
realized, like, oh, we literallydeem attention as valuable
because we say you pay. It costsyou something to give your

(39:28):
attention. And so, like, wedon't hopefully spend money
recklessly because we know that,like, my money is gonna create a
return of some type. Mhmm. Andand the same should be true of
our attention.
And where our attention goes isoftentimes best directed with
intentionality. Mhmm. Saying,man, this is what I want to
focus on in so many ways.

Ben Loy (39:48):
What are the enemies of intentionality?

Alex Judd (39:50):
The first one that comes to mind for me is
ambiguity. And what I'mparticularly talking about there
is ambiguity of vision. If youdon't know where you're actually
going or you don't know what youactually want, then it's hard to
be intentional. It's hard to gettraction on anything. Right?
We've already talked about thissome, but distraction. Right?
Distraction. Dis is a partneraway from traction, sustained

(40:13):
progress towards a worthwhilegoal. Well, so often we get
distracted because we haven'tdescribed what our worthwhile
goal is.
That's why our father, who artin heaven, hallowed be your
name. Thy kingdom come. Thy willbe done. Thy kingdom come. Like,
what are we actually sayingthere?
What what is the kingdom of God?The kingdom of God is that which

(40:36):
is most good, right, beautiful,and true. And so when we are
saying, I want the kingdom tocome, we are saying, I want that
which is most good, likeperfectly good, right,
beautiful, and true to existhere on this earth, to exist in
my life. Right? And I wanna bean ambassador in helping that
come to pass.

(40:57):
Well, it's an exercise inintentionality before a meeting
to say, how could this meetingrun-in such a way that I would
be able to describe it at theend as good, right, beautiful,
and true? How could this podcastrun-in such a way that, man, we
would look up at the end of ourrecording, we say that was good,
right, beautiful, and true. Youknow, how could I relate to my
wife whenever I get home fromwork today, and I would be able

(41:20):
to lay my head down on thepillow at the end of the day and
say that was good, right,beautiful, and true. That's an
exercise in intentionality. Andwhat we're really saying from a
Christian perspective there is,man, I want a piece of heaven to
invade my marriage, to invadethis recording, to invade this
meeting, and want to be a partof that coming to pass, which
is, I mean, in some ways, justinvigorating.

Ben Loy (41:40):
You know? I mean, one of the things you just
communicated was how thatintentionality can can affect
and seep into the people aroundyou and the relationships around
you. So the fourth thing we'regonna talk about is
relationship.

Alex Judd (41:54):
Mhmm.

Ben Loy (41:55):
When it comes to leading others, how does your
relationship with them weighinto your your impact and
ability to elevate them?

Alex Judd (42:05):
So let's lay out two scenarios. There's someone on
your team that is a good teammember. They're a culture fit,
but they're struggling rightnow. And you're feeling like you
you need to challenge them alittle bit, like they've either
become complacent or there'ssomething that's drawing their
attention away, and it's notgood for them. It's not good for
the company.
It's not good for anyone. Right?And so, you know, your role as

(42:27):
leader is I I need to reallychallenge that person. In option
a, you have zero preexistingrelationship with that person.
Right?
Like, you you don't know theirspouse's name. You don't know
their kids' names. You don'tknow anything about their life
outside of work. The last timeyou talked to them was two or
three months ago, and now youhave to go in and challenge them
and, you know, basically say,need you to, like, perform at a

(42:50):
higher level than what you are,and I believe you're capable of
it, but I need you to performhigher. That's option a.
Option b is you know them,you've met their spouse, you
know their kiddos. Right? Like,you you talked to them last
week, and you know some of thecircumstantial things that are
going on in their life. You haveregular conversations where you
just curiously ask questionsabout what they're working on

(43:11):
and how you can help and what'sgoing on in their world and all
of that. And that's the contextwithin which you need to have a
really strong heart to heartwith this person and say, hey.
I need you to level up. Youcould use the exact same script
in both scenarios and say, hey.I really care about you. And
because I care about you, I needyou to level up and perform in a

(43:31):
higher level. Stop beingcomplacent.
Move the ball forward for us inthis area. Option a, it's not
gonna carry any weight. Optionb, it could change their life.

Ben Loy (43:39):
Mhmm.

Alex Judd (43:39):
Right? Relationship. Relationship is the single thing
that makes a difference. That'snot why we engage in
relationship, but it is one ofthe practical pragmatic effects
of doing business inrelationship because, you know,
it's the old school quote.People don't care what you know
until they know that you care.
And I would maybe modify it alittle bit and say people don't
care what you know until youshow that you care. And so you

(44:02):
specifically asked a questionabout helping other people
elevate. That often involvesencouragement, but it also
sometimes involves challenge.And if you challenge people
outside the context ofrelationship, it will feel like
condemnation. And the and ninetimes out of 10, they will
bucket and go the otherdirection.

Ben Loy (44:20):
Yeah. It kinda goes back into what we talked about
with expectations versus aleader creating the environment
in which they can challenge.And, like, part of that
environment is relationship.

Alex Judd (44:32):
That's right. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I had a
realization gosh. It wasprobably a year and a half, two
years ago now.
We have a remote team. Right?And I had a realization that,
man, Olivia in particular.Olivia directly reports to me.
She's our coaching manager, and,she's a dear friend, and she's
someone that I love workingwith.
But I had the realization that,like, we're both busy people.

(44:54):
And if I'm not careful, the onlytime Olivia hears from me is
when I have feedback forimprovement or when I'm asking
her for something. That is,like, when she that's when she
sees my phone number show up onher phone is worth one of those
two things. And so I just hadthis realization. It was
actually in prayer one morning,and I just said, no.
No. No. Like, we're gonna dosomething different. And so that

(45:16):
day, particularly, I had alittle bit of flexibility in my
schedule, and I remembered shehad done a panel a couple months
before that actually wasn'trelated to work. She got invited
by a local church in the area tofacilitate a panel of women in
business, and she facilitatedthat panel.
And she had sent me therecording, and she said, hey, if
you have time, I'd love for youto just check that out when you
have a moment. And I said, I'mgonna listen to that, and then

(45:37):
I'm just gonna make a list ofall the amazing things that she
did, and then I'm just gonnacall her and give her that list.
And so I I listened to it, and Igave her a spontaneous phone
call. And I swear, she picked upthe phone and she said, hey,
Alex. Like, here we go again.
Right? Is it feedback or is it arequest? And and I and I just
said, hey, Olivia. I I just hadsomething real quick. We can do

(45:58):
the two minute version or we cando the thirty minute version,
whichever you prefer.
Just let me know. And she said,well, gosh, I I wasn't really
expecting this phone call, and Iwas literally just sitting that
kids down for lunch. And socould we do the two minute
version? And then if we need toschedule the longer version
later, we can absolutely dothat. I said, yeah.
It's totally fine. I said, we'lldo the two minute version.
Olivia, I just made some time togo back and watch the panel that

(46:21):
you facilitated, and I was justso blown away by how confident
you were, by how intentional youwere, by how prepared you were.
I made a list of five things,but we probably don't have time
to go through all of them now.But I just wanna say, you asked
such good questions and you'veclearly done your homework.
You did such a good job ofengaging both people on the
panel and people in the room.You did an excellent job of

(46:42):
providing examples to make youfeel relatable, but not making
it about you because that wasn'tthe focus. And I just wanted to
say, I'm just so proud of you,and I just love the way you
represented us on that panelthat day. And that's it. And she
said, okay.
Maybe the thirty minute break.Right? And and it just was eye

(47:02):
opening for me, right, of, like,man, I don't want my people to
only hear from me whenever I'masking them for something or
whenever I'm giving themfeedback. But, again, this is
what you mentioned at thebeginning, that requires
intentionality. You have tocarve out time in your schedule
and intent to say, like, they'regonna experience me in a
different way, but what we'rereally focusing on here is

(47:25):
that's an investment inrelationship.

Ben Loy (47:27):
Yeah. Well, I think in that context, and I think even
in a broader context, especiallyin the culture that we live, the
greatest risk we run with thepeople around us is that we have
transactional relationships. Andthat phone call bridged that gap
from being a transactionalrelationship with her to an

(47:51):
actual, like, relationship withMhmm. With feedback and
encouragement, and it it justadded an extra layer of depth
that probably in the context,know it probably was already
there in that context, but maybejust hadn't been engaged in the
same way. So that it's cool thatyou recognized that risk and
then took action to fightagainst it.

Alex Judd (48:13):
And I I actually loved sharing that story too
because it's not like I had theproactive wherewithal to be the
amazing leader that recognizedthe risk. No. I was doing it
wrong for a period of time, andand I had that realization. And
so what why I love that isbecause that means we might be
talking to people right now thatlook up and maybe like, oh,
there's people on my team thatthe only time they hear from me

(48:35):
is when they're doing somethingwrong. Well, the good news is is
literally you can make one phonecall today that changes their
experience of you in thatregard.

Ben Loy (48:43):
Yeah.

Alex Judd (48:44):
The final, I would not say it's a point that we'll
be able to spend much time onhere today, but I think it it
would be our way of setting up afuture podcast is you and I just
recently listened to it was alecture that Tim Keller gave to
a group of marketing and salesprofessionals in New York City.
It was so good, and maybe we canlink that talk in the show notes

(49:05):
because his take on it was justso nuanced and helpful because
he's obviously a pastor. Right?He's you don't really expect to
hear him in that in thatenvironment necessarily. One of
the things that he said thatI've been chewing on and really
thinking about as it relates toorganizational culture and
leadership and how we teach andthink about leadership is he
said we run the risk societallytoday of taking things that

(49:29):
maybe used to be and should becovenantal and commoditizing it,
and that's really dangerous.
And so the reason why I bringthat up here is what we're
really talking about there isfriendship is a covenantal
thing.

Ben Loy (49:42):
Mhmm.

Alex Judd (49:42):
Right? Friendship is one of those things that it's
like, Ben, as a friend, I'm yourfriend regardless of how you
perform at your job. Right? AndI have people that, praise God,
like, we don't work with them.And regardless of how I do as a
leader at Path for Growth,they're gonna be my friend.
Right? And that's so helpful forme, and that's so good for me is
that I I have those covenantalrelationships. Now we run the

(50:05):
risk of things that are actuallycontractual or commoditized,
like those taking over thingsthat are covenantal. And so the
the reason why I bring this uphere is if you're a really
relational leader, you andpeople love the work, you run
the risk of them having theironly friends be at work and them

(50:25):
having their closest friend beyou being their leader, and
maybe you're their only bestfriend that they have. And I
actually think that puts you andthem in a really, really bad
spot because now they need thatjob.
They need that job not just forincome. They need that job to be
a socially stable person thathas community. And what I would

(50:48):
say is we need to be coworkersthat that treat people like
friends, that act like friends,that even operate with some of
the standards of covenantalfriendship. But we need to never
forget, this is not a covenant.This is a con contract at work,
and it is in everyone's bestinterest for you to have
covenantal friendships outsideof work and not to look at us to

(51:09):
be that for you.

Ben Loy (51:10):
Yeah. Yep.

Alex Judd (51:12):
We that could be a whole podcast. Absolutely. One

Ben Loy (51:16):
of the things I really appreciate about that lecture
and, honestly, I mean, we talkabout it a lot, like, the last
topic, which is growth. Right?What is the difference between
what most of the worldcommunicates as growth? So in in
the concept of the lecture withTim Keller marketing, right,
growth is such a commonly tossedaround term in those in just

(51:39):
that field, and it can mean alot of different things. What is
growth in the context of ofestablishing higher standards
and what we're talking about,and then what is maybe growth in
the context of what other peoplethink when they think of growth
within business or anorganization.

Alex Judd (51:53):
Yeah. I mean, vanity metrics is that, you know,
what's our top line revenue?Even to a degree, like, it's
much less of a vanity metric,but profitability can be a
vanity metric. Right? You know,it's it's like, oh, revenue.
Right? Revenue is a vanitymetric. We're focused on
profitability. And suddenly,you're making that, well, look

(52:14):
at how profitable we are, andyou're just trying to impress
people with big numbers. Here'swhat I've seen.
I've seen people have massiverevenue numbers that are not
becoming more of the person thatthey were created to be. I have
also seen people have massiveprofitability numbers that are
not becoming more of the personthat they were created to be,
and their organization isn'tbecoming more of the

(52:35):
organization it was created tobe. And so this is why I would
challenge everyone out of thisconversation today is think
about the standards that you'reintentionally adopting. Because
if you don't intentionally adoptthe standards of what makes me
into more of the man, the woman,the leader that I'm called to be
and what makes this organizationmore of what it's called to be,

(52:57):
if you don't get clear on whatGod is calling you to in those
areas, you will just adoptwhatever is around you, and you
will pick up and even byosmosis, you will inherit the
standards that are alreadyaround you, which may not be
your race to run. Right?
Because we could say growth. Youyou know, you need to have year
over year 20% profitability tobe an organization that looks

(53:19):
really attractive to a buyerfive years from now. And that
could be a metric of healthygrowth if you're called to sell
your company in five years. Ifyou're not called to do that,
you're called to make incredibleinvestments into your team
members five years over thecourse of the next five years,
you're called to generously give33% of your profits away, which
some of the companies we workwith do. If those are the things

(53:40):
you're called to do, then itwould actually be disobedience
to apply yourself to the otherpath in some ways.
And so I say all that to saynothing that I just talked about
is wrong. I I really believethat. It's nothing is inherently
wrong. But if you don'testablish what the standard is,
I actually don't think you'reprobably even gonna stick with
it long enough to be able tofollow through on it because
your spirit isn't behind it.

Ben Loy (54:01):
Mhmm.

Alex Judd (54:01):
So what I would say a good standard for healthy growth
in the context of these otherfour higher standards is is to
to think about it as, like,what's gonna make me into more
of the man, the woman, theleader, the Christ follower, the
community member that I'muniquely called to be, and
what's gonna make this companyinto more of what this company

(54:24):
is called to be? And in someways, we're actually reverting
to a question we talked aboutearlier. What would this look
like if it were good, right,beautiful, and true? And in
light of that, how do I justtake daily steps towards that, I
think, is what faithful growthactually is.

Ben Loy (54:40):
In closing out, is there anything you want to say
about, or anything additionalyou wanna say about the five
higher standards we've talkedabout today?

Alex Judd (54:48):
Yeah. Well, let's review them. It's quality,
consistency, intentionality,relationship, and growth. And
let's just take four of them,quality, intentionality,
relationship, and growth, andthen say we're gonna do those
four things consistently. Andwhat you will not do, if you
apply yourself to those fourthings, you will not make a

(55:09):
massive impact overnight.
What you will do is you will setup a sustainable framework that
if you apply yourself to thefifth one, which is consistency,
over time, you're gonna look up.And we might not always be able
to draw a direct line to the wayyou impacted everything, but you
gotta kinda have the faith andthe assurance and the good cheer

(55:31):
of knowing, like, I'm faithfullydoing what I'm called to do, and
I just know there are dottedlines all over the place that
result in impact. And then Iwould say, how do you stay
ruthlessly consistent with it? Iwould just say, if it's about
you, you won't. You are not agood enough reason.
That's where you have to say,man, that they may see the good
deeds and glorify the father inheaven. Make it about drawing

(55:53):
people's attention towardsheaven, and that's an incredible
motivator to say, I'm just gonnakeep going. I'm gonna keep
making deposits. I'm gonna beJohnny Appleseed, and I just
keep planting seeds, and thenwe're gonna look up and we have
an orchard. Praise God for that.

Ben Loy (56:06):
Mhmm. Thanks, Alex.

Alex Judd (56:08):
Well, there you have it. Thanks so much for joining
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