Ingredients of a Breakthrough with Joe Corcione

Episode Transcript
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Alex Judd (00:02):
Okay, let's just start by the story of how you
got into running.

Joe Corcione (00:06):
Oh, well, first of all, thank you for having me
here. I'm so, so excited to behere, and you've been such a
great friend and such a netpositive on my life,

Alex Judd (00:14):
and so

this is awesome.

Alex Judd (00:16):
Man, that's, if you're gonna get a compliment,
net positive is a goodcompliment.

No, 100%, like, maybe the net, the net is funny
too. I always look at, like,any, anything in life, though,
is like, are things net positiveor are they net negative?
Because, you know And I'm not tosay that there was, like,
negative stuff, but, like, I'llgive an example. Like, even so,
like, you know, we recently gota dog and he's awesome and he's
amazing. And I mean, granted,net positive in my life, but

(00:40):
sometimes there's challenges,right?
Like, I have to, unfortunately,have to leave a little earlier
today to go check on him. Notsaying that that's a bad thing,
but, you know, when things arenet positive, I think it's a
good way to look at it because Ithink it's way better than just
looking at life as alwayspositive, because there's gonna
be downtimes, and it's good toacknowledge that sometimes, but
things are net positive as good.Not to say that I've had
negative stuff with you, but Iuse that terminology a lot

(01:02):
because even all the time, Itell my athletes, who I coach
with running, it's like, if youhave bad runs, you're gonna have
them every once in a while, buton a net standpoint, is it going
positive? And is your training anet positive? Because that also
means that it's okay to have baddays, and it's okay to have
things that are struggling, andit's okay every once in a while
for it not to be perfect and notto be okay, so that's why I use

(01:24):
that I

Alex Judd (01:25):
love that. I am not at all surprised that you have
thought processes behind thelanguage that you're using in
that too. Okay, so let's jumpinto it then. Tell me the story
of how you got in to running.

The actual question you asked,

Alex Judd (01:39):
yeah. So as

you can see, there's the tangent there too.
Yeah, so, you know, I think Ihad a very untraditional kind of
background with running too, andI love that because I think with
running, you don't have to haveextraordinarily athletic gifts
or talents when born, and when Igrew up, I had very much the

(01:59):
mindset that you had to be bornwith those things, right? When I
was in high school, and I wouldsee, like, all of, like, my
friends out there on thefootball team and just crushing
it at varsity sports, like, mythought process was like, wow,
it's like so awesome that theywere born, like, athletic and
born with all this stuff, andbecause for me, that was not the
case. I was not born athletic. Imean, I didn't play any

(02:20):
organized sports in high schoolexcept for golf, and that's
arguably a sport, and I can saythat because I play golf.
But that was the only organizedsport I played because I was
just always laughed at at everypickup game. You know, people
would throw footballs to mebecause of the way that I, like,
looked funny catching thefootball. Like, I was just not
athletic, and I thought, well,because I wasn't born this way,
I shouldn't even try. And thatwas the mindset that I had in my

(02:42):
entire life. And one of thosethings included was, you know,
growing up, I was diagnosed withADHD because I was a super crazy
kid in class all

Alex Judd (02:50):
the time, and When you say crazy, what do you mean
by that?

You know, I'd be in my kindergarten, I'd just,
you know, the teacher would beteaching something, and I would
just start screaming somethingout loud, I would take books,
I'd throw them, I'd be veryimpulsive, just doing just a
bunch of stuff. The firstthought that would come to my
mind, would act immediately, andbe way more rambunctious than
the other kids, and so myparents were like, Okay, this is
clearly a problem. So then theytook me to, you know, the
doctor, got diagnosed ADHD, andI was put on Adderall. The

(03:17):
reason why I bring that up isbecause I, it's that same belief
that I had with the athleticism,is like, I was born with a
different brain, and therefore,because I have ADHD, like,
that's the way it's gonna be. Ican't be someone who can be
focused.
I can't be someone who can beless impulsive. But even from
the Adderall perspective, waslike, I I was born someone who
can't be a functional person insociety unless I take this drug.

(03:40):
Wow. And that was the thing. Andthere was a bunch of other
stacked beliefs that kindahappened with that too because I
wasn't confident, and then Itried alcohol for the first
time, but then the belief was,okay, wasn't born confident, so
I might as well keep drinking soI can be confident.
And all of these beliefs wasjust this fixed mindset. And
that's, I think, a belief or athought process that a lot of

(04:01):
people can have growing up. Andwhether it's society or
anything, we're kinda taught,it's like, oh, if you're bad at
math in school, maybe youshouldn't do things that are in
math. Or, you're someone who'sgreat at science, maybe you
should pursue something inscience. Right?
It's either you have it or youdon't. And that was very much my
belief systems. And you know,because of that, deep down
inside, I thought I couldn't bethe best person I could be

(04:23):
without taking substances,Adderall, and then, you know,
going to college, it was likecocaine and marijuana, and like
a bunch of other differentdrugs, because I always had this
deep rooted insecurity that Iwasn't enough, and I could only
be enough if I took some outsidesubstance.

Alex Judd (04:38):
So did you, at that time thank you for sharing that,
first of all. Of course. At thattime, did you know that that was
what you were trying to solvefor and going for those things?
Like, I'm trying to be enough?Like, could you self identify as
that, or was it more just like aimpulsive pleasure seeking
thing?

Yeah. Definitely had no, like, kinda thought that
I was doing this to be thatperson. Like, I I had just this
is all, like, a subconsciousthing and very hindsight twenty
twenty, and at the time, I waslike, oh, you know, this is what
I have to do to be where I wannabe in life. And because like, if
you asked me at the time, Isaid, well, there's no other
way. Like, there's no other wayI could talk to girls if I'm not

(05:15):
drunk.
There's no other way I could gofor this career on Wall Street
that I wanted to if I didn'ttake cocaine. Like, there was no
way I could crush it at schooland get these good grades to get
a good job if I didn't takeAdderall. And that was my
belief. So if you asked me, Iwasn't trying to mask that, but
deep down it was because I hadthis insecurity in myself. Wow.
The only time that that became,or I should say the first time

(05:37):
that it became really selfevident was, you know, when
whenever you make choices likethat out of insecurity, you can
probably get by in the shortterm, but in the long term,
things will crumble and thingswill fall away. And so what
started to happen was, you know,at the end of college, I got a
job at Wall Street, a hedgefund, ended up not being with
that job anymore. I had agirlfriend who I thought I was

(05:57):
gonna marry for, you know, I wasdating her for four or five
years. She left me. I moved backin with my parents.
I didn't have much friends atthe time. Like, everything just
kinda fell apart. And so, Iremember being in the floor of
my childhood room, looking up atthe ceiling, seeing all the
pieces gone in my life, andrealizing that that was all a

(06:17):
product of me. And that's when Irealized that something was
wrong, and started to realizethat there was probably
something deeper behind this.And one of the big things that
kinda came with that was kindaaround the same time, I went to
the doctors, because when youtake Adderall, you have to go to
the doctor to get a checkup tomake sure everything's okay.

Alex Judd (06:35):
Sure.

And the doctor was doing some tests and everything,
and he was like, Hey, you know,you're 22 years old, you're an
adult now, and, you know, aroundthis time, we usually see people
who have been taking Adderallsince they were kids, like, be
able to wean off as somefunction in society. And like,
almost immediately as I saidthis, that anxiety thing, like,
build up in me, and I said, No,no, no, I need to take it. And
that in my head was like, Woah.Like, I remember being like,

(06:59):
You're addicted to that. Like,that was an addictive response
right there to not even beingopen to the idea of potentially
weaning off this thing.
And then so that was kind oflike the first crack, then
being, you know, on that floorthinking these thoughts, like
that was the time where Irealized it was like something's
going on. And I couldn't evenself identify at the time, like
I didn't know, I just knewsomething needed to change. And

(07:19):
the thing that really helped meto kind of self identify that
was, you know, just doing moreresearch into like psychology
and how beliefs are developed.And that's when, you know, I
started to untangle some thingsand realized that it all just
came from this deep seatedinsecurity of believing that I
wasn't good enough and believingthat I was born someone who
wasn't good enough and I neededthings. So to go back to the
running stuff, where

Alex Judd (07:39):
the Dude, skirt's all well, started okay, no, hold on.
We'll get into, yeah, don't jumptoo far ahead too fast. It's
such a fascinating story, Thankyou. And I think one of the
things that makes it sofascinating is, like, you're a
friend. I I know you well.
I've known you well for yearsnow. And, like, I I did not know
you at this stage of your life.Mhmm. It's just so wild to me,

(08:00):
the transformation that it seemslike you've undergone internally
and externally to be the personthat you are today. It's just
wild because I'm like, I wish wecould have a before Joe just so
people could see how differentit is.
I mean, do you experience itthat way? Has it been radical
life transformation?

Oh, I mean, night and day. Like, because, you
know, obviously, we'll get intothe story and everything, but,
like, if you told me that, like,right now, I mean, I'd be and
I'm not saying this to brag, I'mmore so saying this from, like,
standpoint of comparison. Like,you know, I ran like 250 milers,
a 100 milers, like, I coachpeople to run. If you had told
that person on the floor thatI'm doing all this right now, I

(08:41):
would have like, been like,there is 0% chance. Like,
there's no like, even from astandpoint of not even just
being successful and happy, butmore from a standpoint of, like,
running.
Like, I was like, no way. Like,there's the like, 200 miles?
Like, no way. And I thank youfor that comment too, but, you
know, I think that's kind of thewhole ethos of, like, what I

(09:04):
want to tell people all thetime, is that who you are born
does not define who you will belater in life. Mhmm.
And secondly, if you are unhappywith where you're at right now,
that doesn't mean you can'tchange to be that person you
wanna be. I truly believe thatin life. You can be any person
you want to be. You can beconfident. You can be a business

(09:25):
person.
You can be someone who'sathletic. You can be someone
who's a great family person. Andeven if you're not those things
right now, that doesn't matter.What matters is, if you're
willing to learn and put in thework along the way, you can
become that person. And so lifeis not a matter of like, are you
born this way or not?
It's a matter of what are theskills, the capabilities, and

(09:45):
the mindsets that you need todevelop to become that person?
And so like, I really appreciatethat compliment that you gave
too, because it's like, I sithere now, and I want to be the
example for people to be like,that's where I was, and here's
where I am now. And the thingthat like, really got me to
believe that was love it or hatethe guy. Like, I read Tony
Robbins book, Unlimited Power.

Alex Judd (10:06):
Yeah.

And he starts out the book talking about how he
was overweight, homeless, broke,like had no one in his life. And
then he makes the jump in thebook to he's in a helicopter
looking at the highway, likebacked up with cars, all trying
to go see him speak at aconcert, and he's got his wife
in the helicopter with him. Andin my head, I'm like, what?

(10:27):
Like, how? Like, how is thateven possible?
And so reading that, like,clicked some things, and so for
me, like, my whole thing, and Ithink leaders, in general,
leaders are people who you lookup to and you you aspire to
wanna be like them.

Alex Judd (10:40):
Yeah. Right?

And so like for me, I think the bet one of the
best ways to lead is just tolive by example, and people can
see that it is possible. BecauseI truly believe that all of us
know, and deep down inside, ifwe see another human being do
something, like, we have thecapabilities to do it ourselves.
And even though we might think,oh, I might be born that way or
not, if you believe in the humanelement to adapt, because humans

(11:04):
are meant to adapt, we'veadapted over years and years and
years and years to get betterand better and better, whether
it's by technology or skill setsor capabilities, if we believe
that we can adapt, and if we seesomeone transform, then we have
the ability to do thatthemselves. So, like, my whole
life has just been about, yeah,like, I'm a coach and I teach
people how to run, but honestly,like, I teach people to become
someone they want to be. Andlike, that is kind of where my

(11:27):
whole ethos kind of lies.

Alex Judd (11:28):
Man, there's so much in that that's so powerful. One

(13:12):
of the things that stands out asa theme that I think is actually
a little bit distinctive fromother people that I've talked
to, it seems like unfortunatelythe story of man, I was in a
really dark spot, drugs andalcohol became super attractive,
is a common theme sometimes.However, a lot of times it's I
was quitting on life, Right?Like I was becoming lazy. I was

(13:34):
becoming complacent.
I was just like basically layingdown and saying I quit. It
almost doesn't sound like thatwas the case with your use of
cocaine and alcohol and thingslike that. It almost sounds like
that was maybe misplaced, butthat was the attribution of your
ambition almost. Is that doesthat feel correct?

Oh, 100%. I mean, because I've, you know, I never
had the standpoint of like, youknow, been like, what's the
point or like, life is worthlessor things like that. Like, I
knew I think deep down, I'vealways wanted something, and I
didn't can can never reallyplace what that something was.
And I thought it was money.Like, I really wanted to be a

(14:13):
hedge fund owner and, like, ownthis hedge fund and make
millions and millions ofdollars.
When I first went to college, Iwanted to be a movie critic, and
I actually went for journalism,and then someone told me, they
were like, You're never gonnamake any money in journalism.
And I was like, Really? They'relike, No. And I was like, All
right, well, gonna go to financebecause I wanna make as much
money as possible. Because Ithought that if I made a bunch
of money, I'd be super, superhappy.

(14:34):
And then, like, because so atany time, like, I've had this,
like, goal, like, I've alwaysand I've always been, like,
chasing something. And I'd saysomething, like, now I know what
it is, but at the time, didn'tknow what it was, and I was just
chasing something, and I thoughtit was, like, in money, and I
thought it was you know, beingwith as many girls as possible,
and like having the mostfriends, and like all this
stuff. So like I tried to, I wasin a fraternity trying to chase

(14:56):
that side of things, like I wentto a job on Wall Street, and
like tried to make a bunch ofmoney, and I did make a bunch of
money, and then I always foundthat no matter how many people
that I was with, no matter howmany friends that I had, no
matter how much money I made, Istill end up being miserable.
And so, being in that spot whereI was on the floor, I was like,
what, what is going on here? Andthat's like the whole crux of

(15:17):
the journey, which, you know, Ikinda go to.
I know I'm kinda jumping aroundhere, but I really found that
what I was chasing wasfulfillment. Like, that's it.
Like, was fulfillment. And thebest quote on fulfillment is
from Tom Bilyeu, who's, youknow, he's a guy I look up to
really, really well, founder ofQuest Nutrition. Great, great
guy, but he explains it as,fulfillment is how you feel
about yourself, even when you'reby yourself.

(15:37):
And I was like, wow, it's sogood, because you're just
chasing the feeling of justfeeling that deep satisfaction
of your life and who you are andthe impact that you're making,
and that's what I was searchingfor. And, you know, money is a
vessel for that. I think friendscan be a vessel for those
things, but if you don't likeyourself, I think it's deeply

(15:59):
impossible to be fulfilled. Andthat's what was missing for me.
Like, had, you know, well, itspiraled to the point where I
didn't have the money, but like,when I had the money, when I had
the friends, when I had all thatstuff, I was missing that part
of loving myself, and I trulybelieve you can't be fulfilled,
you can't be a leader, you can'timpact other people if you are
not loving yourself.
And I know it sounds cliche andtrite, but I think there's a lot

(16:22):
of people who are verysuccessful, and they don't
deeply like themselves, and Ithink you miss that fulfillment
factor. That's why we seemillionaires and billionaires
commit suicide every year. It'sbecause they have this stuff,
but deep down, there's justsomething that they don't
appreciate about themselves on asubconscious or even conscious
level, and life seems pointlessat that point because you gotta

(16:43):
love yourself and then you know,also be fulfilled with that and
and find the things that lead tothat that self love too.

Alex Judd (16:50):
If we were to zoom in on that moment of you staring at
the ceiling in your childhoodbedroom. It's it sounds like
that was a tipping point moment.

Yeah. That was the one.

Alex Judd (17:02):
If we were to say, like, what are some of the
ingredients that go into abreakthrough or a transformation
tipping point like that, Whatwere the ingredients that were
present there that made itpossible for you to, I mean, not
even just shift gears, but likechange the paradigm entirely?

Yeah, I think the number one ingredient, well,
think there's two mainingredients. I think the first
thing is self awareness, 100%.Anytime I'm working with an
athlete, and they come to me andthey're saying like, hey, I
struggle mentally in theseultramarathons, because when I
get to like mile 50 and a 100mile race, like I start to get
all these negative thoughts andthese barriers, And I always go,

(17:42):
Great, that's amazing. Andthey're like, What? Like, what
do you mean that's amazing?
I was like, You're aware of it.And the self awareness part is
90% of the issue, or 90% of thesolution. Because like, once
you're aware of something, youcan fix it. Like, that's why
therapy is so good, becausetherapy helps to like, get you
aware of certain things andlike, why certain things exist,
If you don't know there's aproblem, there's no way to like

(18:02):
solve it. So you gotta have thisself awareness, right?
Because for me at the time,like, I thought my problem in
life was that I didn't haveenough. I didn't have enough
money, I didn't have enoughfriends, I didn't have enough
influence, I didn't have enoughany of that stuff, and I got
more of that, but I wasn't selfaware, and if I was self aware,
I would've realized that theproblem was really in my head
and about me and my ownrelationship with myself and my
belief system. Right? So I thinknumber one, have to have self

(18:25):
awareness. And the only way thatself awareness I think can
happen is the second ingredient,which I think is the most
important ingredient is pain.
Think pain is the biggest tooland ingredient for a
breakthrough. And I actuallylearned this from Tony Robbins,
and I didn't know it at thetime, but this is what was
happening at the time, is thatwhen the pain is so great that

(18:48):
you hit this point where it'sjust so overbearing, that the
pain of change is less than thepain that you're currently
feeling right now, you're goingto make the change. Right?
Because most times people don'tmake the change because the pain
of change is so hard. Sure.
Right? If someone wants to quitsmoking, like, those symptoms of
withdrawal are really hard, butlike to them, like the pain that
they're getting of smokingdoesn't set in until they have

(19:09):
cancer, so that pain is likereally low. And so, at that
time, my pain was so high, likeI said, like I didn't have a
job, didn't have friends, didn'thave a girlfriend, I was alone,
and the pain was just so, sohigh that it almost like forced
me to make some change becauseit was so much, it was just so
omnipresent there. And, youknow, I think like a lot of

(19:29):
times, like sometimes, you know,and although I'm not a parent,
like, you know, I do speak withsome parents where they're like,
listen, like, I just let my kidkind of fail on their own and
figure it out because pain issometimes the greatest teacher.
Right?
I always think about the RayDalio quote that just so deeply
resonates with me is that painplus reflection equals progress.
And so notice how, like, what Isaid for the first two things, I
didn't even put this togetheruntil now, pain, that's the one

(19:51):
ingredient, self reflection,which takes self awareness,
equals progress. And I thinkwhen you have both those things,
it's there too. And that's whywith like, you know, I think
that's why failure's so good.That's why even just being in
ultramarathons, you're in thisdeep pain, different kind of
pain, but you learn so much inthere.
I think without pain in ourlives, we're never gonna learn,

(20:12):
and I'm not saying that from adisciplinary standpoint, but I
think pain is the mostinformation rich source ever
because it signals to us thatsomething is wrong, and when you
can be self reflective on thatpain, that's where you make the
change. So for me, think, yeah,mean, shout out to Ray, because
I guess he articulated in agreat way, I think pain and self
awareness, I think are the twoingredients for a breakthrough,
and that's what I had in thatmoment. In terms of like, a lot

(20:35):
of people ask me, because thething that I did the next day
that helped me a ton, and Idon't know what compelled me to
do this, and you know, I willchalk it up to God, the
universe, whatever you believein, right? Like, something told
me to like, go to the bookstorethat day and find some answers,
and that's when I picked up, youknow, I picked up several books,
one of them being Tony's book,and then another one was like a
book on yoga. Swear, yeah,because I was like, maybe yoga

(20:56):
will help me, like, you know, Idon't know, figure my life out.
Yeah. And then that all led meto eventually running down the
line and stuff, so yeah, I mean,we can go deeper into that, but
yeah.

Alex Judd (21:07):
So in terms of life transformation, do you have that
moment and then, like, drugs area thing of the past?

Oh, no. Oh.

Alex Judd (21:15):
What does that look like? Well, For you to, like,
have this initial, like, I'mgonna change my life, but then
also not be a snap your fingersthing takes time.

Oh, for sure. And anytime I look at a thing of
progress, right, like, we tendto wanna think progress is maybe
this, like, straight line up,but I always call, like,
progress, like, the stockmarket, right? So if you look at
the S and P 500 over the yearsand years and years, it pretty
much looks like you gotta lineup. But then you zoom into
events like 02/2008, and youzoom into events like 2020, if

(21:47):
you zoom in there's these biglows in there too. But over
time, like, those lows willcorrect and go up and basically
make this straight line overtime.
So success is a lot like that,and I feel like at the time when
I first started, this wholejourney of self discovery, like,
I almost, I guess, tried toanticipate it, liked to be this
self line. So, where the runningkinda came into it, and this

(22:09):
kinda ties back to the answer,because I know you mentioned,
make the decision to change yourlife, does it all go away? It's
like, no. So my big thing kindadoing all this work was I looked
at, okay, what is the leaddomino that's gonna make
everything feel better, right? Iactually learned that concept
from Tim Ferriss, where he'slike, you gotta find the domino

(22:29):
that's gonna tip over everythingthat's gonna help.
And through just like some selfwork and journaling and thinking
through things, the biggestthing for me was getting sober.
Like that was the biggest thing.Was like, if I'm sober, then I
get to think clearly. I knew Ihad this insecurity that like
who I was was only good enoughwith the drugs that I was at. So
I was like, if I can be a personwho I respect and is capable
without drugs, like, that to meis gonna be huge.

(22:51):
So I like, I gotta get sober. SoI literally opened up Google, I
swear, like, this is my thoughtprocess. I type in how to get
sober. That was it. I was like,that like, some people are like,
I go to AA or, like, you know,rehab.
Was like, no, I went to Google.And so doing, like, my Google
searches and everything, and onecommon element that I saw across
everything was exercise. Mhmm.Like, exercise and physical

(23:14):
movement. And in my head, I'mlike, I think back to all those
times in high school where I waslike picked on for being
unathletic, I was like, oh god,I can't do that.
I was like, okay, I can't go tothe gym because if I go to the
gym, I'm gonna look weirdweightlifting, people are gonna
make fun of me, so I was like,alright, well, what else can I
do? I was like, okay, well, canget a pair of running shoes, and
then I can run outside early inthe morning when no one's awake,
and no one can see me, and it'sfree, and I was like, Alright,

(23:37):
let's just give it a shot. Andso I was like, Okay. So I went
to the store, I bought somerunning shoes, I was like,
Tomorrow I'm gonna go run onemile, I'm gonna run one mile
tomorrow. Wow, what year isthis, Joe?
This is 2018, so 2018. I hadnever ran more than a mile
before this, by the way, neverin my life. And I was like, I'm
gonna run one mile. I remember Iwoke up in the morning, it was
4AM, I was like, it's darkoutside, no one's gonna see me.

Alex Judd (23:57):
Are in New York?

I was like, alright, here we go. Put on some
music, like click on the watch,and I'm like, alright, it's time
to go, and I start running, andI'm like running, feeling good,
and all of a sudden, I'mbreathing really heavy, my legs
are hurting, I like, was oh mygosh, I feel like I'm gonna die.
I was like, all right, I thinkI'm close to a mile though, I
looked out at my watch and itsays point one five, and I was
like, oh my gosh, I make it to aquarter of a mile, I have my

(24:37):
hands on my knees, I'm gaspingfor air, and I was like, I
stink. Like, this is never gonnawork. And I walked back, didn't
even complete the mile.
And I was like, dude, you're afailure. You said you were gonna
change, and you didn't change,and blah blah blah. I'm like, oh
my gosh. Like and I was justbeating myself up, and I was
like, yep, this is never gonnawork, and everything too. But,
you know, as I started to getback into those books and
everything, like, thing thatTony kept saying, one thing that

(24:58):
a lot of other people keptsaying was that you just have to
keep working at it, you have tokeep being consistent, you gotta
believe that it's gonna getbetter, and you have to
celebrate the small wins alongthe way.
And one thing that Tony saidthat really and I know I keep
going to Tony, but he was, like,very influential in my life. And
and I'm not saying, like, youhave to listen to Tony. Like,
just find influential leadersthat can help you. But one thing
that he said that totallyimpacted me, and I think it's so

(25:19):
true this day, most peoplegreatly overestimate what they
can do in a year. Theyunderestimate what they can do
in 10.
Mhmm. And that deeply sat withme because it was like, okay,
that means that I can't expectto, like, do this all in one
day, and I ran a quarter of amile, which I hadn't even run
that far years. I was like,alright, maybe there's something
to it. And I said, okay, well,you know what? I'm gonna try for

(25:41):
far the next day.
And the next day, I think I gotto point two seven, and then I
started building up andeventually got to that mile. And
I was like, woah, like, this isawesome. Like, this is so rad.
Like, I'm running a mile now?Like, this is amazing.
And that clicked something inme. It was like, dude, you
couldn't run a mile on day one,now you can. So there's
something to showing up eachday, making small wins and small

(26:02):
progress, not letting thefailure and the disappointment
hold you back, that it's gonnamake you progress. And that's
when I was like, okay, I think Ican do this with drugs. And so I
took less and less Adderall eachday.
I was still drinking, but I didless and less and less each day,
and just weaned it off very,very slowly, and that was kind
of the whole process that, youknow, kind of started to lead it
to. And, you know, during thatprocess, I signed up for my

(26:24):
first five ks as well too,because I was like, I'm gonna
keep going, keep reaching thisstuff, and it was a Spartan race
actually, so it was obstacles,was in Killington, Vermont, so
tons of hills and stuff. And Iremember I ran that five ks, and
I did it sober. Like I didn't, Isaid, You know what today?
Because I was taking Adderallevery day, I was drinking a
little bit every day, but I waslike, I'm gonna do this thing
sober.
And I went out and I ran thefive ks, and it crushed me, man.

(26:47):
Like, I mean, could barely evenwalk. Like, I was bartending at
the time too, which is funny,bartending, trying to get sober,
like, go figure. Not a greatmove, I don't suggest that.

Alex Judd (26:55):
Yeah, that probably wasn't on Google, was No, no,

no, that was not on Google. That was a bad
decision, but anyways, Iremember being sent home that
day because my boss is like,You're walking really weird and
you're kind of freaking out theguests, so you should go home.
So I was like, Okay. But therewas something so awesome about
that. Even though I was in allthis pain, that pain was a
signal of like, you pushyourself, and like, that hurt

(27:18):
and that sucked, and like, thatreally, really just was a tough
thing, but you did it and youmade it through and you feel so
good about that.
And that got me thinking, I waslike, it's the same journey with
sobriety. Like, every time whereI would wean off the Adderall
that I would take, it would beharder and harder and harder
each day, and then, you know,that each win, where I would
take a little bit less, wouldfeel all the more disempowering.

(27:41):
And then fast forward thatuntil, I think, so I ran the
five ks in September, andDecember later that year, that
was the last day I'd ever takendrugs. And I think the thing
that really helped me a ton wasrealizing that once you stack up
the wins in your life, you canhave confidence to keep going on
the big thing. So at that time,from September to December, I

(28:01):
ran my first 10 ks, and then Iran my first half marathon, and
I kept going on to there, andevery time I broke through to
those races, I realized I'mgetting better and better, and
all it took was for me to bemore resilient and me to be more
self trusting in myself, to thepoint where after I ran that
half marathon, I realized I waslike, okay, like, it's time.
And actually, funny enough,like, you know, I ended up going

(28:22):
to, like, a Tony Robbins, youknow, seminar, and literally the
day after the seminar is when Itook my pills, flushed them down
the toilet, and that was thelast day. That was the first day
I was sober, and ever sincethen, years later, since, 2019,
that was that was the day. Wow.So, yeah.

Alex Judd (28:37):
Praise God, man. I mean, that's an incredible
story. Like, that isunbelievable. One of the

(29:44):
dominant elements that I feellike stands out to me that I
think is applicable to anyonetrying to engage with growth or
life change is just the role andpresence of belief. Mhmm.
Can you speak to how importantbelief is if you're trying to
change something in your life?

Oh, 100%. I mean, I think belief is everything
because even if, like, I thinkbelief is the governor to
however much your potential isever gonna show up. And here's
the reason why I say this, letme, I'll link it to running,
because I see us a lot inrunners a lot of the times.
Yeah. So I was chatting with anathlete today, who's going for a
100 mile race, and he wastalking to me, and he was like,

(30:24):
well, mentally, I feel like inthese races, know I can do it.
I believe I can do it. And evenjust looking at his training, I
mean, crushed his training. Hisworkouts were great. His stuff
was awesome. Like, every all thephysical signs point to, you
know, him getting this too.
And even in the past, before westarted working together, all
the signs, like, I look into hisraces that he would go for for
this 100 miles, I was like, yes.He should be able to go and nail

(30:46):
this. But before we startedworking together, he would have
races and he would just notfinish them over and over again,
even though his training wasgreat and everything. So comes
to me and, you know, he's like,he's like, hey, like, I I can't
finish these races. And I'mlooking at his training and I'm
like, your training's good, man.
Like, you're hitting theworkouts, you're hitting all
this stuff. Like, talk to meabout what happens at the race.
He's like, anytime I get to mile60, for some reason, like, my

(31:07):
mind says I can't go that farmuch farther. And I was like,
what do you mean? And he's like,I don't know.
My mind just says, like, aftermile 60, like, I just can't do
it. And I was like, oh, that'sinteresting. Well, what happens?
He's like, well, it tells me allthe reasons I can't. It brings
up all the times in the pastwhere I failed at mile 60.
And then I say, you know what?Like, it must be right. So I
stop. And then that's a perfectexample where it doesn't matter

(31:31):
how much you do the steps,doesn't matter how much you do
the actions, your beliefs willalways be the final determinant
of your results in life. All thetime.
So you will only rise to thelevel of your belief. That's it.
Because the belief will be likea central governor, right? It's
like an air conditioning. Ialways say like, if you believe
that you're a 65 degree personand you're crushing it and

(31:51):
you're at 67 degrees, all of asudden your internal system's
like, no.
No. No. You're a 65 degreeperson. It's gonna cool you down
a little bit. That's why selfsabotage happens.
That's why when some people getbig opportunities, they end up,
like, screwing things up andthey're like, what? I'm so on
the ball. Like, why am I notscrewing up? Maybe you believe
that you're not deserving ofthat success. Maybe you believe
that you don't believe thatyou're deserving of this
opportunity, right?
Whereas like for some peoplefrom a belief standpoint too, it

(32:13):
can work the other way. Let'sjust say you're at 62 degrees,
you're like, No, no, a 65 degreeperson. And then you just start
ripping and crushing it and justgetting it on. If you believe
that you're worth more and rightnow that maybe you're in a
position where you're muchlesser, that's gonna kickstart
you into action to get thatthing done. And so belief is the
whole thing.
And it's not even just beliefsabout you, it's beliefs about
yourself, it's beliefs aboutother people, it's beliefs about

(32:35):
the world. Like, all that stuffis the lens of how we look at
things. Right? Another examplethat I always like to say all
the time is that, you know,think about it like this with
belief, right? Let's just saythere's two people who are going
on an airplane Mhmm.
And there's one person who fliesall the time, and they're like,
oh, turbulence is normal.There's one person who never
flies because they're so afraidof flying. And they're on the
plane, they're sitting there,all of a sudden, the captain

(32:56):
goes, alright, everybody, bookyour seatbelts. We've got some
turbulence coming in, and all ofa sudden, there's a big boom,
just like a turbulence. Now theone person who flies all the
time is like, no big deal.
It happens all the time. Theother person's like, oh my gosh,
like, what's going on? Blah blahblah. Now here's the thing why
belief matters. That bump wasthe same exact bump for both
people.
The only thing that's different.What's different? Their belief

(33:17):
of what that bump means. So yourbelief is gonna shape how you
view challenges. It's gonnashape how you view failure.
It's gonna shape how you viewyour actions, it's gonna shape
everything. So you change yourbeliefs, you change your life.
Where you see failures asopportunities, oh my gosh,
you're set up for success. Yousee difficulty and pain as
something that's gonna propelyou forward, you're gonna push

(33:37):
yourself beyond beliefs. But ifyou see failure as something
that's gonna limit you and holdyour back, you're never gonna
take the shot and you're gonnastay where you're at.
If you see pain as somethingthat's gonna be very
uncomfortable and you wannaavoid, you're never gonna reach
your full potential becauseyou're never gonna push
yourself. And so like, I thinkbelief is like the biggest
thing. If you keep finding thoseroadblocks in life, sometimes
it's not even just changing youractions, it's changing your
beliefs and what they mean andreshaping those.

Alex Judd (34:00):
Man, that's so good. And I I love talking to you
about these subjects becauseyou've got such a per a wealth
of personal growth experience,but you can also look at it from
the business angle too. Mhmm.And so many ways, I feel like
personal growth is just amicrocosm of business growth as
well. Yeah.
And we're spending a lot of timewithin our community of impact
driven leaders right now talkingabout the four stages of

(34:21):
business. So we think of it asfounder, operator, CEO, owner.
Mhmm. And in so many ways, Ithink one of the caps or
limiting lids for people goingfrom operator to CEO is that
they can't see themselves as aCEO. And I don't think that's
all that different from someonebeing able to see themself run a
100 mile race in some ways.

100%. And like, I think that's that's a 100% right
in the head. Like, even from astandpoint of like, when I
started Everyday Ultra Coaching,like, I was the coach and I was
a person on there. Similarexample to you, like, where now
I'm in a role where I'm kindamoving more into, like, that CEO
role, and we have coaches underus. Like, I had to shift my
belief to say, hey, like, I'm abusiness owner, like, not just a

(35:02):
coach.
Right? Because at times, Ithink, like, the things that
people can limit themselveswith, and I'm friends with a lot
of running coaches, is they'relike, I'm a coach, like I can
never run like a big business oranything of that such shoe, and
I'm like, that's your belief.Like that's your belief right
there. And the only, and I waslike, and I always ask this
question to even my athletestoo, I'm like, what if you
believed that you can go out andrun a 100 miles? Could you do

(35:23):
it?
And they're like, absolutely.And I'm like, well, why not?
Like, why don't you believe?Now, obviously, it's a much
like, beliefs are really tricky.The reason why they're so tricky
is they're so hard to unravel.

Alex Judd (35:34):
Oh, They're deeply ingrained.

Yeah. Especially, like, there's, like, low level
beliefs like, oh, can I run this100 miler or not? But usually
there's a deeper belief thatkinda feeds all that, and it
takes a lot of time and work anddoing that. But here's the
thing, it's like, when you actin a way that totally negates
that negative belief, the moretimes you do that, the less that
negative belief has power

Alex Judd (35:56):
over you. Man.

So that's why I kept ultra running. Like, that
everyone asks me all the time,like, why did you go from half
marathon to two fifty? It'sbecause literally the whole
process of that is just from thestandpoint of, like, keep
feeding the belief that I cankeep going and do more. Now, not
from a standpoint of, like, oh,like, I like, I think there's
the unhealthy version of thatof, like, you're always reaching
for more no matter what. Yeah.
But, like, to me, it's, like,always asking, like, how can I

(36:17):
be better to keep showing myselfthat if I can do the work and be
better, then that's gonna helpme to always have that belief
of, if I'm at a place where I'mnot at right now, I can get
there? And that to me, I thinkanytime you speak with people
who have depression, I don'twanna, like, total self
generalize, but, a lot of thetimes, like, where people feel

(36:38):
hopeless or stuck, let's justput it that way to make it
little bit more milder, if youask them, they're like, well,
what's the point? There is noway out. And it's like, if you
believe that there's a way out,and you believe that you can do
something to get out of that,that always is hope. Like, in an
ultramarathon, there's a quotethat I always like to say for
people all the time, it neveralways gets worse.
Because so I'll give you anexample. When I was in Coconuta

(36:59):
two fifty, two fifty miles, youstart in Phoenix, Arizona, you
go all the way to Flagstaff.Sure. Very, very long way. And
so

Alex Judd (37:07):
I mean, you clarified that it was a long way when you
said two fifty miles, but thank

you for elaborating. Exactly. I would
dude, I was at mile one ninety,and so there's 60 miles left to
go. Yeah. And I'm broken.
Like, my feet hurt so bad. I gotblisters up the wazoo. I'm,
like, crying one second, andthen I'm laughing one second,
and then I'm angry one secondbecause I have I've only slept
an hour at this point, so, like,my mind's all over the place.

(37:33):
I'm walking at a snail's pace. Ican barely keep my eyes open,
and I'm like, there's 60 milesleft to go.
And the knee jerk thought thatcomes into mind is like, woah,
60 miles left to go and you'rethis bad? Man, you might as well
stop because it's gonna getworse and worse, and that's
logical. Right? Because it'slike, if it's gonna get worse,
like, why do I keep going? Butthen you have to hold on to this
belief that it will get better.

(37:53):
It will get better, and I'mgonna do whatever I can to help
to make this better, whetherthat's move forward, whether
that's eat, whether that's takecare of myself. And if you
always believe that it will getbetter, and you believe in
yourself to make it throughthose tough challenges, you will
keep going. Mhmm. Right? Andlisten, it might at this point,
I don't think it got betteruntil, like, mile two forty.

(38:13):
So it took a while.

Alex Judd (38:14):
Yeah. Took a while to

get But it was the belief that kept me going, not
the fact that I felt good ornot. Mhmm. And so your feelings
don't matter as much when youhave the belief that you can get
through it, and you can make itthrough it, and it will get
better. And sometimes the thingthat it will get better is you.
Right?
If you just wait for things toget better, like, you're at the
whims of life, and that stinks.But if you always believe that

(38:36):
you have this control internal,like, locus of control that you
can make the situation better,it's great. And even if you
can't control the things aroundyou, you know what? You can
change your mindset. Someonetold me a quote once, like, if
you can control a situation,take the action to change it,
and make yourself in a bettersituation, and if you can't
control anything, change yourmindset.
And if you change your mindset,you'll be in a stronger place

(38:56):
too.

Alex Judd (38:57):
Man, there's something in what you just said
that I think I have neverthought about in this way, but
you were talking about how youlook at other coaches in the
space of running and they viewthemselves basically as well the
most that I could ever do isindividually coach athletes. I
could never do more than that.That's a limiting belief that
keeps them from ever being ableto do more. What's wild about

(39:18):
those people is like thosepeople are ultra runners.
Theoretically, belief is likesomething that they are strong
at in the field of running, butthat doesn't mean necessarily
that it transfers into the realmof business.
I think a lot of the leadersthat we work with, a lot of
times their strength is they'vegot belief for their business.
They've got belief in theirtheir even their leadership
capacity, but maybe that beliefdoesn't transfer to their

(39:41):
physical health, to theirmarriage, to their ability to
parent well, to their ability tohave a life outside of their
business or have a greatcommunity of friends or
something like that. I I guessthe thing that I'm observing is
that just because belief is astrength in one area doesn't
necessarily guarantee that ittransfers to other areas. I
guess I would like to know, isthere anything that you've

(40:02):
learned about transferring like,man, here's what I've learned in
terms of belief being a strengthin this area and how it can
impact my life in other areas?

Yeah. This is such a great question. I love this
because, obviously, I work witha lot of ultra runners, and
ultra runners takes a lot oftime. Right? It takes a lot of
time.
It takes a lot of effort, a lotof training, and most of people
we work with have full timejobs, families, some of them run
businesses, some of them arehigh, you know, executives at
companies. And I always tellpeople this all the time, is,

(40:30):
you know, if you have otherpriorities in your life that you
cherish and you love and youwanna have a lot of great
success in, whether that'sfamily, anything else, right,
job, whatever, you name it onthere too, I always say, like,
number one, take the lessonsthat you learned from ultra
running and apply it to that,and number two, like, you're not
here to be a better ultrarunner. You're here to be better

(40:52):
in those areas as well too.Mhmm. Because, like, always say
with ultra running, for me, itwas not a standpoint of being a
better runner or running for howmuch.
Like, I did it to get sober tobe a better person. And now that
I am sober, it's like, it teachit's teaching me tools how to be
better in other areas. And sothe way that, number one, I
always suggest to answer aquestion of like, how do you
take something that you're goodat one area and applying it to

(41:13):
other? I think, especially withsomething like running,
running's a really good exampleof it, we can see running as
just like this silo kind of likeaway from our life. And we can
just see life in silos, right?
We see life in differentbuckets, right? We have our
career bucket, we have a familybucket, we have a running
bucket, and all those kind ofthings too. And we can see them
as separate. But here's thereality. Like, we're a holistic
person.
And if we can show up in one waysuper strong, we can do that in

(41:34):
another way. And I learned thatwith running because the thing
that helped me a ton was doingthings like going from five k to
10 k to half marathon from abase of never really running
more than a mile before. And soin my standpoint, was like,
woah. If I can do thatstandpoint of never being able
to run again to running afreaking half marathon, then I
can go from a place of not beingable to function at all with
Adderall to functioningliterally sober off anythings

(41:56):
too. And so success leaves cluesin your own life in other areas.
So like if you know that you cankeep pushing yourself, and let's
just say, you know, you're youyou wanna grow your family, and
right now you have the beliefof, like, I don't know if I can
be the a person who can, youknow, raise a good family with
two kids, like, that's that'syour belief. Like, you know what
I mean? Like, why do you believethat? And and, why you believe

(42:19):
that's a whole different otherstory, and you wanna get to the
root cause of that, but my wholestandpoint is, listen, if you
signed up and you ran a 100miles off of a place of never
running a 100 miles before,who's to say that you can't be a
parent of two kids? Right?
The biggest thing that I see allthe time is that people come to
me and they're like, well, I cannever train for 100 miles
because I have three kids, Ihave a full time job, I have all

(42:42):
this stuff too, and what I dofirst and foremost all the time
is I go, I go, well, first ofall, like, you have to make the
decision that this is somethingthat you want to go out

Alex Judd (42:50):
and try at first.

Because right now, like, I think the the limiting
belief, like, takes thatdecision off the table. Yeah. So
I think, like, number one, haveto be open to the new belief.
Right? It's like, oh, I'm opento it if this is possible.
Yeah. Because if you're not opento it and you have this belief,
like, everything is shut down,right? So all the time, like,
and I'm not gonna, like, talkabout specific sides of with
politics. The reason why, like,politics, you can never convince
someone of a certain party tobelieve the other party is

(43:12):
because that's a firm, deeplybelief in them. It's a firm root
of belief.
They're not open to other thingstoo. So have you to be open to
changing the belief. That's thefirst thing. The second thing
that I do is say, hey. I'veworked with this client, and
this is this is a real client.
She's amazing. Her name's Erica.She's awesome. She had two young
girls. She just had anotheryoung girl, and she ran a 100
miles.
She was working all at the sametime too. She ran a 100 mile

(43:32):
race and never missed a workout.Two young girls, full time job,
and she did. And and I've and Ihave countless other stories of
that. And so, again, going backto what I said before, one way
to shift your beliefs, look atother people who are doing the
same situation and know thatit's a human thing, not a them
thing, it's a human thing.
That's the second thing. Andthen the third thing is give it
a try. So this is a very bigpoint. I use that language very

(43:56):
intentionally. I don't say goout and do it.
Because a lot of the times, wedon't even try because we think
that it's not gonna fail, again,belief wise. So I always say,
hey, listen, let's just give ita try for a month or two. If it
goes well, awesome. And moretimes than not, it ends up going
well because we ended uptraining them the right way, but
then they see that and they'relike, oh, this is possible.
Okay.
Like, this is amazing. And a lotof the times, if you just say,

(44:17):
okay, let me just give it a tryfor two months instead of
committing to a whole trainingblock, like, you're gonna do it.
Right? So you just kinda take itone step at a time and don't
make a judgment on how it'sgonna go, like, right off the
bat. Just give it a try, give ita shot, let's just see what
happens.

Alex Judd (44:29):
So I think Man, there's a gold mine in that that
you tell people give it a tryfor something like trying a 100
mile race, a training plan for a100 mile race. And the fact that
you say more times than not, itworks, I just think that speaks
so much to how much we capourselves in terms of what we're
capable of. Yes. That more oftenthan not, people are capable of

(44:50):
the thing that they literallythought was impossible.

100%. And and even from that thing too, it's a lot
of things that happens. Peoplejust don't even take the first
step.

Alex Judd (44:57):
Yeah.

They don't take the first step. Like, I always
tell people in the middle of therace, like, I've seen people in
horrible shape in these races atmile 75, and they have 25 miles
left to go. Their feet aredestroyed, their stomach's
jacked up, they're super tired,like, whatever. Like, they're
just they've just gone through,like, the gauntlet out there.
Right?
And they got 25 miles left, it'spitch black out there and

(45:20):
everything, and they're like, Idon't know if I can do it. And I
remember this exactly, wasvolunteering at a race, it was a
100 mile race, and there's a guyin this exact situation, that's
why I bring it up, I'll neverforget it, and he's sitting
there and he's like, I can't doit. And I was like, why can't
you do it? He's like, I got allthis stuff, I like, alright,
well listen, How about this?Like, you can drop from the race
if you want.
You can drop. But guess what?You can't drop at this aid

(45:40):
station. Just give it a try. Goto the next aid station.
And if you wanna drop there, goahead. I was like, I'll see you
at the next aid station. So hegoes out, and he goes and drives
it, and comes to next aidstation, he's like, I'm gonna
keep going. And I was like, whyare you gonna keep going? He's
like, because I showed that Ican keep going, like, just by
going out and doing it.
So I didn't tell him finish therace. I didn't tell him go for
the rest of 25 miles. I said,just go seven miles out and just

(46:02):
give a try and see what happens,and a lot of the times we rob
ourselves of that littleopportunity. So that's why I
always tell people in ultramarathons, right, it's like,
don't focus on 100 miles, focuson getting to the next aid
station. If that's too far,focus on getting to the next
mile.
If that's too far, heck, I'vehad some races where my legs are
so bad, I'm just like, I'm justgonna get to that tree, and
that's all I'm gonna focus on.And then once you finally get to
the tree, you're like, oh, I'mgonna do the tree. Let's make it

(46:23):
to that bush now. And you justkeep having these little micro
wins, and that's all you gottafocus on. And when you focus on
that, then you realize after allthose little trees that you
celebrated the victories on,gone a 100 miles.
Yeah. And you believe that youcouldn't go the 100 miles. So
you don't have to you don't eventhink have to think about the
big thing. Just think about whatis the smallest win you can do,
give it a try. If it works,amazing.
If it doesn't work, guess whatyou learned. Right? Like, I

(46:44):
think a lot of the times thebiggest reasons why people don't
get the opportunities in life isbecause they just don't at least
take the first step. And that'sthe biggest thing.

Alex Judd (46:53):
I think I just finally pieced together how you
are a person that can run 250miles is you run to the next
tree but you live in Arizona sothere's never any trees.

There's never

Alex Judd (47:04):
any trees, yes! It's like the tree's in

the

Alex Judd (47:06):
It's

finish

Alex Judd (47:06):
line and you're like you only get four trees!

Can go right to the finish line being like, Hey,
haven't seen a tree yet so I'mjust gonna keep going.

Alex Judd (47:12):
Exactly right. Okay, so what's the I mean, it feels
like a pretty big gap in a verysmall amount of time from 13
miles, half marathon. That Imean, Joe, it's why I love
talking to you on this subjectbecause you're not exaggerating
when you're saying it was hugedeal to run a half marathon.
Like that was a massive Whatdeal for is the process of going

(47:34):
from that to competing? Not evenjust running and finishing, but
competing in 5,100 mile, twofifty mile, you've even ran a
300 mile race.

Yeah, thank you for that. I appreciate that. And
you know, that's, thecompetition kind of part of it
came from, again, like, why Igot fulfilled with a half
marathon, which by the way, I dowanna say something on here,
because I think this is soimportant, because I hear all
the time people come up to me,they're like, I'm training for
my first half marathon, but you,Joe, like, that, I know it's
nothing. Like, I know it'snothing, and I'm like, no, no,

(48:08):
don't say that. You doing a halfmarathon for the first time is
way more impressive than medoing a 100 miles.
And I look at me, like, whatwhat what do you mean? And I
say, well, because for you,you're doing something you've
never done in your life before.Right? You, obviously, you have
little I think about a baby allthe You

Alex Judd (48:26):
think about a baby all the time, right?

Think about with Lily, right? Lily takes her
first step, like, everybodywalks every single day, are we
gonna look at that first stepand be like, oh my gosh, like,
she's just walking, whatever.No, we're gonna be like, yeah,
you did it, Lily, oh my gosh,it's amazing. Do you know why?
That baby has never taken a stepbefore.
Mhmm. And that is an amazingthing that we celebrate. And so
people all the time, it can beso easy to compare where you're
at in your journey, not justwith running, with business,

(48:48):
with life, and everything, andbe like, oh, well, I can't
celebrate this because x and yand z is doing something better
all the time. And I always saythis, I'm like, hey, you doing
something, even if it's ashorter distance, if that's the
first time in your life you'vedone that thing, that is
infinitely harder than someonewho's running their seventh 100
miler

Alex Judd (49:05):
Yeah.

All the time. So And anyways, want to preface
that first and foremost.

Alex Judd (49:08):
Well, let me, it goes back to what you said at the
beginning. I'm trying to thinkof a time where I saw someone
take on a physical challenge intheir life, whether it's running
their first ever five k or dotheir first ever half marathon
or do their first full marathon.Right? Or something entirely
different than all those things.I'm trying to think of a single

(49:29):
example of where I saw someonedo that, and it wasn't a net
positive for them.
Like, not just net positive forthem physically, but net
positive for their life. And Idon't know that I can think of a
single example. It's just wildhow something about physical
growth has massive ramificationsfor other, every other area of

(49:49):
our life.

100%. Because we gain that confidence. And I
like, that's why I think runningis so great. Not saying that
everybody has to run because youdon't, but, like, running is so
awesome because it really justbreaks things down into its most
simplest form. Because to askyour question, how did I go from
13 to competing?
Well, really the simplest thingwas, number one, I just learned
how to train better, and numbertwo was I just applied the work.

(50:11):
And why I say running is sosimple is because it really is,
it's just a matter of justputting one foot in front of the
other. Now sure, there's someworkouts you can do and some
speed stuff, and how youstructure the training. Great,
there's all that stuff, but ifyou really break down running,
all it is is just putting onefoot in front of the other.
That's it.
And so a of times in life, itcan be a little bit more
complex. Know, there's, like,complex relationships and a lot
of if then statements and a lotof different, like, other kind

(50:33):
of branches that can come in,especially with business. Right?
Like, business is amultivariable game. Like, but
there's only one thing forcertain in ultramarathons.
If you keep going, you willprobably finish. Like, that's
it. That's all it is. Andhonestly, that's life too. Like,
one of the best quotes I've everheard was from Alex Hermoazu, I
know we were talking aboutbefore too, and I know some

(50:54):
people have some, like,different opinions about him,
this is a great quote, and it'ssimple, but it's so powerful.
If you don't stop, you'll neverlose. And I was like, oh, so
good. It's so good. Because whatrunning taught me is, like, if
you just keep going and, like,you know, to go to the
competition thing too, like, Imean, the biggest thing for me
was, again, just keep showing upday after day after day after
day after day. And kinda wherethe competition thing kinda came

(51:16):
in for me was, you know, I wasat this time, I was training for
my first a 100 mile race.
And while I was doing that firsta 100 mile race, like, everyone
asked me, like, oh, are youscared of not finishing? I was
like, no. Like, I'm gonnafinish. Like, I know I'm gonna
finish. Like, I know I'm gonnado really like, I know this.
And that kinda clicked somethingin me. Was like, woah, woah, on
a second. Like, let's go back,and let's look at why this

(51:37):
process of running was sofulfilling for you. When I
signed up for my first 10 k, Iwasn't sure if I was gonna
finish it. And to make eventhings crazier, there was, like,
a nor'easter on that day.
It was a huge storm. It was Ihate the cold. Like, I was
freaking out. I was like, oh mygosh. And I was like felt like I
like, there was a chance of medying at that race.
Not true. But, like, I wasliterally, oh my god. And when I
did the first half marathon, Iwas like, oh my gosh. And when I

(51:58):
did my first 50 k, was like, ohmy gosh. And, like, all those
things kind of,

Alex Judd (52:01):
like, that my gosh? Is it fear for you of not
finishing? Is it fear of dyingor getting hurt? Like, what is
the blocker for you?

So I wouldn't say it's a blocker, but I think that
any goal that's worth settinghas a little bit of a chance of
failure in it.

Alex Judd (52:16):
Okay. And is that what you're scared of?

I wouldn't say it's scared, but it's more of
like the uncertainty that you'regoing to do the thing. I think
there's gotta be a little bit ofthat in any goal in order for it
to be worthwhile.

Alex Judd (52:29):
Yeah.

And so, yeah. Is there

Alex Judd (52:33):
and maybe it's not fear, is is there any timidity
of let's just take a 300 milerace for the first time. Is
there any timidity of maybethere's the the anxiety of I
might not be able to do it, butthere also could be the anxiety
of if you're a high achievingambitious person, what if I do

(52:53):
do it and what are theimplications of that in terms of
what I had to give up to getthere, the impact that it had on
my relationships, the impactthat it had on my body, things
like that. Because that'ssomething that I think everyone
wrestles with in every arena oflife is not just fear of
failure, but also fear ofsuccess in some ways.

Oh, for sure. Right? I mean, like, and that's
like one reason. I mean, I seeus all the time. They call it
the Ironman widow.
Right? They use Ironman, but butthink it applies well.

Alex Judd (53:19):
Like That's so sad.

Yeah, and that's like an actual widely used term
for people who just are trainingall the time, and their wives
are at home, or husbands,whoever, like, is just not
seeing their partner all thetime. I, first of all, I'm very
disagreeing with that. Like, Ithink, unless, like, that's a
conscious decision on your end,and you're like, hey, my wife's
okay with it, she's ready, like,because I have some athletes
that are like, hey, like,listen, like, my wife wants me

(53:41):
to do what I pursue, like,whatever. If that's your
conscious choice, great, but ifyou're someone who's like, I
wanna have a family, I wanna bethere for my kids and everything
like that too, like, number one,I think you can make it work. I
think you can train

Alex Judd (53:51):
for them to have lot Yeah. Right.

It's a

Alex Judd (53:53):
belief thing. Someone once told me whenever I was
doing Ironmans, they told me,Ironman career family choose
two. And it's like, that is andthey were serious, right? Yeah.
And it's like that that is abelief system that if you
believe that's how it works, youwill follow that belief system
and say, well, this

is the way

Alex Judd (54:11):
the world works. If I want to do Ironman, I have to
say no to something else.

100%. And you can do all like, right? So, like, I
look at we talked about RussellBrunson before. Like, I look at
Russell Brunson, like, he'scrushing it in business,
crushing it with his family.He's very, very faith driven
man.
Like, he, like, he's very, veryinto his church and service and
stuff like that. And I lovethat. And it's like, like, you
asked me before, like, who's aperson? I see it like that
because he is seeing what'simportant in life and doing it

(54:34):
all to the max. Now I think thebiggest thing with the fear of
success and just and all thatstuff in general is, like, you
do have to pick things that youprioritize the most.
Like, another Ray Dalio quotethat haunts me in my sleep, but
it's so true. You can doanything you want, but you can't
do everything. Yeah. And now,again, it kinda goes back to
thing, doesn't that challengebelief? It's like, no, you gotta

(54:56):
list out the things that youreally are important in life.
So for you, you're like, okay,training's important, family's
important, career's important,but maybe going out and partying
or socializing as much, maybethat's something that's not as
important to me. Okay, great. Ormaybe doing things like other
personal hobbies, like golfingor something like that. If you
really like running more, youmight have to pick those
priorities. But I think it comesfrom a standpoint of number one,

(55:17):
prioritizing the things in yourlife, and number two, being the
best at those single priorities.
Because I'll give you anexample. For me, I run a
business, I train really hard, Ihave a wife, I now have a dog,
and, like

Alex Judd (55:28):
In the past month, you have a dog.

Yeah. Past month, have a dog and stuff like that
too. And, you know, for me, Iand I'd stay in touch socially
with people and stuff like thattoo, but, like, I really wanna
do those things, and, like,right now, this season of my
life, I do hang out with friendshere and there too, but it's not
as much of a bigger priority.Now, again, like, people might
think about it and like, oh mygod, like, that's terrible. If
that's, like, the thing that youwant, like, great.
That's awesome. Like, I'm notsaying that you have to live

(55:51):
like me, but it's, like, definewhat your priorities are.
There's some people who are, Iwould never want kids because,
like, I just wanna focus on,like, me. Great. Like, listen,
I'm I'm I wanna have kids oneday.
Yeah. I don't agree with thatphilosophy for me, but whatever
is important to you, like, findthings that are important and
maximize those all. And ifyou're afraid of, like, all the
sacrifices you give it, insteadof being afraid of that, being
like, how can I make this work?

Alex Judd (56:12):
Yeah.

It's not I cannot make this work, it's how can I
make this work?

Alex Judd (56:14):
Can you speak to because you were already
competing in ultras prior togetting married to Lexi. Yeah.
Then you get married to Lexi.How does that change the way
that you approach planning outrunning and planning training
schedules, the way you approachyour business, all of that.

Yeah, 100. And then even just to really quickly
answer the question, know Irounded about a lot, but I
decided to compete in theseUltras because for my first 100
miler, I knew I was gonna do it,and to go back to that thing, I
truly believe any goal in lifeis worth like a little bit of
failure, and so for me, I waslike, I wanna push myself to the
point to compete in thesethings, because that was the
thing where there's an elementof failure, where it's like, I
went to the start of the nightof the 100 mile race, and I'm

(56:54):
not saying this out ofarrogance, was just like, I know
I'm gonna finish this, and tome, I was missing that element
of potentially failing, whereasI knew if I went out to compete
against some of the bestathletes in the world, there's a
big chance of failure in thattoo, but I was like, you know
what, I wanna go for that.Because for me, having that
element that it is not 100%guaranteed, I think makes the

(57:15):
goals all the more worth it,because when you complete a goal
that has a 20% success rateversus a 100% success rate, what
are you gonna get more excitedabout?

Alex Judd (57:23):
Yeah, that's, man, no kidding. Yeah. Okay, so let's
take a shift in the conversationthen because of what you just
said. I think I read you've done20 plus ultramarathons now.

Mhmm.

Alex Judd (57:34):
Right? You started in 2018. Mhmm. So it's not like you
gradually worked your way up.Like, you you got there pretty
quickly.
I think you've DNF'd one.

Yep.

Alex Judd (57:43):
Right? What was that experience like?

Yeah. So this is a document we have a documentary
on this called

Alex Judd (57:48):
Broken It's at three exceptional. Thank We'll put the
link in the show notes becauseit's so good, and I feel like
it's a visual representation ofall the principles you're
talking about.

Thank you so much. I appreciate it. But, yeah, so
that was the Arizona Monsterthree hundred milers. 300 miles,
the first year doing the race.And I went to that race, I was
like, I wanna win this thing.
Like, I had never wanted to wina race more in my life. And
like, I wanna win. And I put inthe best training block in my
entire life. Now, was there achance that I wasn't gonna win?
A 100%.
There was totally a chance. AndI knew that I was like, No

(58:16):
matter what, I'm gonna finishthis thing. No matter what. And
so I ended up going for it, andI trained, I put the best
training block of my life, I wasso confident on that start line.
And in the middle of the race,yeah, went through your usual
trials and tribulations and alot of highs and lows and all of
the things you get in anultramarathon.
And this doesn't spoil the trueending of the doc, because there
is another ending of the doc,but I do end up not finishing

(58:38):
the race because my kneeexploded out there and basically
got so swollen I couldn't evenwalk on it, And I had to be
carried out of thing. I was oncrutches the next day, but I
only made it 200 miles out of300. Now, I look at that as the
best thing that's happened to mein my ultra running career. At
the time I didn't. I was crying.
I was so upset. I was like, ohmy gosh. I can't believe that

(58:58):
happened. That's the best thingthat's ever happened to me. Two
different reasons.
Number one, I'm so proud ofmyself for going for it. I
always think about that TeddyRoosevelt quote. Right? It's
always about the man in thearena, not the critic. It's not
the critic who counts.
It's about the person who's inthere, whose face is marred by
sweat, blood, and dust, and theperson who's actually doing it,
because the person who went forit is gonna live a more
fulfilling life than the personwho sits there and doesn't even

(59:20):
try at all. That's a paraphraseof a quote, but that's
essentially what it is, so I'mproud of myself for that. And
then the second thing is, gosh,the biggest lesson I learned
from that is, dude, you need tostrength train more. I was like,
the reason why your knee blew upis because my left my left hip
was a little bit weaker than myright, just a tiny bit, but
because I was running so hardfor 200 miles, like, and that
compensation ended up putting alot of weight on my knee, it
blew up and did that. And whydid that happen?

(59:42):
Because I wasn't strengthtraining enough. Then I started
strength training. I strengthtraining, like, three to four
times a week now. I'm totally onit, and I had one of the best
races of my life after that too.And because of that, like, I was
like, wow.
If I didn't mess up that race,who knows how great I would've
performed? So, like, the reasonwhy I think that's just so
awesome is because even if youwhen you go for a goal, like I

(01:00:04):
mentioned before, it's sofulfilling when you complete a
goal that has a little bit of achance of failure, But guess
what? No. It's not a win lose.It's a win win.
Mhmm. Because if you completeit, win, you did it. If you fail
it, you get a lesson that is soinformation rich that is gonna
make you better in the future.So no matter what, you win win.
So why would you ever letfailure stop you from making

(01:00:25):
that step?
Because if you know that it's agame where no matter what you're
winning, man, you better takethose shots all the time. So
anytime someone comes to me andit's like, Oh, I'm afraid of
failing on this goal. Now again,if you're taking a business shot
and it's a one to 99 chance, andyou have an investment where the
risk can be mitigated, taken,but from a standpoint of like,
if you're just afraid of thefailure, and there is a shot

(01:00:46):
that you can do it, don't letthe failure hold you back,
because no matter what, you'regonna win. And I think that
principle changed my life nomatter what, because and it and
that goes back to the just try.Right?
Just try. Like, don't don'tdon't measure it on success,
measure it on did you give it ashot?

Alex Judd (01:00:59):
Mhmm. Before we get to the final question, number
one, I would tell people theyshould watch the documentary
because it's so good, but howcan people follow along with
everything you and your team aredoing,

Joe Corcione (01:01:10):
Drew? Thank you so much. First of it's an amazing
conversation, by the way.

Alex Judd (01:01:13):
And I if

you're watching, keep listening to Path for
Growth. I mean, I've listened toPath for Growth before we even
were friends, which is soawesome, so it's surreal to be
here, so thank you. Yeah, Imean, we put out tons of free
content on our podcast EverydayUltra, you can find wherever
podcasts are at, and then onYouTube, have an Everyday Ultra
page, and we have a lot of tipson not only just how to be a
better ultra runner, but to be abetter person. And so, if

(01:01:35):
running interests you, you'llfind a lot of good content. If
even just mindset interests you,we have some good content, but
we're all about giving as muchvalue away for free, and yeah,
because we truly wanna makepeople not only better runners,
but better people, and so that'swhat we're here for.

Alex Judd (01:01:47):
So good, man. And I I cannot speak enough to like the
value that his company isbringing too, and so if you are
looking to train for a race, Iwould say, man, check everyday
ultra out to say the least, andwe'll put the links to all those
things in the show notes. Okay.Final question for you. I think
it's almost possible that thejump from zero miles to one mile

(01:02:08):
might actually be harder thanthe jump from one mile to even
250 miles.
Yes. Just that it's so hard toget out of the rut of I'm not
doing anything till I'm doingsomething. And without a shadow
of a doubt, we know now enoughpeople listen to this that
there's probably some people tolisten that listen to this that
self identify as like, I'm atthat zero mile stage. Like, I
know something needs to change,but literally getting up and

(01:02:29):
doing different things to getdifferent results is the thing
that they haven't yet found theenergy to muster and do
something new. If that person'ssitting down with you and
talking to you, what would youtell them?

Yes. Well, you know, it kinda relates to the
cold plunge that we went onright before this. So I told
Alex, I hate getting wet, and Ihate cold water. And he's like,
let's put a lot of people that

Alex Judd (01:02:53):
hate cold water. I've never met anyone that's
literally like, I don't likegetting wet.

No. I don't like getting wet. I don't know why. I
really don't, but I don't likegetting wet. But anyways, it's
funny because I run and I sweatall the But all that being said,
like, you you said, like, Ihave, like, my foot, like, about
to go in.
You're like, you just gotta doit. And I like, yep. You're
right. You just gotta do it. Andso literally, I think the thing
is if you're at a place whereit's just so hard to take that
first step, know that numberone, that first step is the
hardest.

(01:03:17):
And here's a practical piece ofadvice that honestly helped me
so, so freaking much wasliterally just count down to
five in your head and then justdo it. Now this is attributed to
Mel Robbins. I can't take creditfor this. She has a she's great.
She has a thing.
It's called the five secondrule. And literally, this is
like it sounds so simple, butit's so true, there's a lot of
science behind it that we don'thave the time to go into too.
But basically, if you just like,okay. Wanna do this thing and

(01:03:38):
just go, saying I don't wannapay my people, but it's a
tedious process, you gotta inputnumbers. Sure.
Like the creative stuff. Soliterally, this morning when I

(01:03:58):
was about to do payroll, waslike, alright, five, four,
three, two, one, go to thewebsite, open, and just start.
And once you start, you'll justkeep going. The hardest part is
just getting the first thingdone. And so, the hardest part
with me is putting on the shoes,getting out there, and you don't
even have to focus on the nextday, you don't have to focus on
the day after, just focus ontoday.
To focus on that first step, andjust do that, count down to
five, make it done, and thatfirst step's the hardest, and

(01:04:20):
once you do it, you go. Most ofthe times when I go out for a
run, I will say maybe 90% of thetime, I sit there, I look at my
shoes, and I'm like, oh god, Ireally don't wanna do this. I I
swear, like, lot of people arelike, oh, don't believe that
because you're a running coach.I'm like, no. Like, honestly,
like, left to my own demises,I'd probably be a lazy person on
the couch just watching TV.
I really would, but Iunderstand, I'm like, in order

(01:04:40):
to get to where I need to be, Ineed to take this uncomfortable
step. And you always gotta askyourself, what do you really
want? There's what you want,well, wanna just sit and chill
and just, you know, kinda relax,but I really want to be the best
version of myself. And all thetimes when you can ask that
question, what do I really want?Then that first step just
becomes easy even when it'shard.

Alex Judd (01:04:59):
Thanks, Joe.

Thank you so much.

Alex Judd (01:05:02):
Hey, Thanks so much for watching. If you want more
content like this, we've gotsome killer stuff planned. So
make sure you rate, review, andsubscribe. Let's go. Let's go.
Let's go.

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