October 21, 2025 • 45 mins
When you’re facing a challenge or dilemma, it can be incredibly helpful to ask yourself, “What would a wise leader do?” In this episode, Alex breaks down 4 common habits and actions of wise leaders, including practical examples of what they may look like in different phases of the business. He also explains why wisdom is such an important pursuit and encourages leaders to think beyond the black and white.
Information isn’t the gap between failure and success—action is. Path for Growth’s 1-on-1 coaching helps you create a plan and execute on what matters most for your business. Apply today at pathforgrowth.com/coaching.
Episode Recap:
- What would a wise leader do?
- What is wisdom?
- Wisdom requires the ability to think in the gray
- Content can’t consider context
- Wisdom is essential when working with problems, people, or potential
- There are certain commonalities you’ll see in the behavior of wise leaders
- 1. Wise leaders retain simplicity amidst complexity
- 2. Wise leaders own limitations
- 3. Wise leaders make decisions and withhold judgment
- 4. Wise leaders invest in front-stage, back-stage, and off-stage relationships
If you’re ready to move beyond just gathering information and start executing on what truly matters, Path for Growth’s 1-on-1 coaching can help. Apply now at pathforgrowth.com/coaching.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Alex Judd (00:02):
Okay. So we're diving into the topic today of wise
leadership. And, really, kind ofthe way I came at this topic
today is I I was challengedrecently by some content I heard
from Andy Stanley. He's just abrilliant leader and pastor out
of Atlanta, Georgia. And he justsaid when things get really
difficult, challenging, ortumultuous in his leadership,
(00:24):
one of the questions that heasks himself as a practice of
self reflection is, in thissituation, what would a wise
leader do?
It's wild how if you kind ofreframe or change the question
from, man, what would I do inthis situation? And you take
yourself out of the picture. Youdecenter yourself from the
scenario, and you just ask,well, what would a wise leader
(00:47):
do in this scenario? It's crazy.I've now used this question for
myself and it's garnered me somuch perspective.
It's helped me detachemotionally from the situations
and decisions that I'm involvedin. And then I've taken it from
my own personal practice as abusiness owner and leader, and
I've used it with customers ofours that we coach around the
country. And, when they'refacing something difficult or
(01:09):
challenging, one of the thingsthat I like to do is not just
give advice. Because adviceoftentimes isn't what people
need. What they actually need isconfidence.
How do you instill confidence?Well, you ask great questions.
And so a lot of times, I'll justask them, what would a wise
leader do in your It almostsounds like an insult because
they're like, are you saying I'mnot a wise leader? But but you
(01:30):
understand the premise there isthat, man, we all obviously and
hopefully aspire to exercisewisdom in our leadership. And
when we just take the stutterstep to ask, man, if a wise
leader was in the position,situation, or decision making
spot that I'm in right now, whatwould they do?
So that's the premise behindtoday's podcast. And, really,
(01:51):
that's what we're gonna spendour time looking at is what are
actions and habits that wiseleaders do? What are some things
that, man, if we, survey thelandscape of leaders that we
would probably all say, man,they are wise. What are the
things that they have in common?Because those are things that we
obviously want to reproduce.
But before we jump into the fiveactions that I've got for you,
(02:14):
let's just first talk aboutwisdom. What is wisdom? Well, I
I love Tim Keller's definitionof wisdom. He says that wisdom
is competence with regard to therealities of life. So in many
ways, wisdom, we would say, is,being tuned in to the way the
world works and operating inalignment with that.
(02:35):
Right? I heard someone say oncethat, man, when you're operating
outside the vein of wisdom, it'slike rubbing your hand against
the grain of a piece of wood.Right? You're going to get
splinters. And so one of thethings that we're arguing
whenever we say that wisdom isnot only a thing when we say
it's a good thing, it's avirtuous thing, is we're saying
there is an objective way thatthe world works.
(02:58):
There is a value structure ofwhat is good and right and
beautiful and true. This is theclaim that we're making when we
say, your kingdom come, yourwill be done. We're saying we
want the kingdom of heaven toinvade this earth, and we, in
some ways, want to beambassadors in that. And so what
we're saying here is thatthere's an objective value
structure, and we operate inwisdom when we get in the flow
(03:21):
or get in the stream of the waythe world works. Tim Keller
says, wisdom is competence withregard to the realities of life.
And then we can think aboutProverbs one seven. Right? It
says, the fear of the Lord isthe beginning of wisdom. Now I
think it's really helpful toremember that fear in this
context is not terror. Fear isdeep seated awe, reverence, and
(03:46):
respect.
And so how is deep seated awe,reverence, and respect tied into
this idea of wisdom? Well, man,when we operate in fear of God,
we're saying, man, look how bigGod is. We are trusting in the
omniscience, omnipotence, andomnipresence of God. We say,
man, God is all seeing. God isall knowing.
(04:08):
God is everywhere all the time.He is sovereign. He is the
creator. The universe that weget to live in, it's not that it
was created by nothing. It isthat it was created from
nothing.
That means that there was acreator that said, man, nothing
is not what I want it to be. Iwant there to be something. Bam.
Life shows up. And the creationthat we operate in every single
(04:31):
day came from, the power andsovereignty of that creator.
And, man, when we magnify in ourminds and in our hearts how big
and good and great and sovereignand powerful god is, well, then
what do we immediately collidewith? The reality of just how
small we are. And what's wild iswhen we're operating in
(04:52):
awareness of how big God is, howsmall we are, what do we gain?
We gain humility, and humility,I believe, is just a sister
virtue of wisdom. So withinthat, why is wisdom important
for leaders?
There's three principles that Iwant us to really understand
before we get into this contenthere today. The first is a
(05:14):
concept that I learned from a abrilliant book. It was written,
I believe, in the eighties ornineties called the contrarian's
guide to leadership. Don't youjust love that title? Right?
I I heard that title. I waslike, sign me up. I'm in. It's a
great book that I wouldrecommend leaders read, but
there's a particular topic inthat book that for me was
incredibly impactful, and it's atopic that I find myself sharing
(05:36):
with the business owners andleaders that we work with in our
coaching community regularly,and it's the idea of gray
thinking. And here's how thisapplies to wisdom.
It is so tempting, especially ifyou are a type a personality, to
put all situations, alldecisions, and everything that
you face into the lens of blackand white thinking. And
(05:59):
oftentimes, we apply moral termsto these things. So we think,
man, there's a dichotomy infront of us. And then with these
decisions that we have to make,which if you are a leader, you
are a decision maker, there'sright and there's wrong. There's
good and there's bad.
And the claim that that the bookContrarian's Guide to Leadership
makes that's just so brilliantis it says that, man, most
(06:21):
effective leaders actually spendmost of their time in the area,
the decisions, the problems, thescenarios that look much more
gray than black and white. And alot of times, if you've
graduated in your leadershipjourney, if you've been doing
this for a while, what youoftentimes find is you're not
(06:42):
operating in the realm of goodand bad, right and wrong. A lot
of times, you're operating inthe realm of good and best. A
lot of times, you're thinkingthrough, man, should we hire
among many good candidates?Right?
Should we fire this person? Andit's not necessarily that
there's clear absolutely becausethey compromised integrity, it's
like, man, there's been chronicunderperformance, but maybe we
(07:05):
could do more. That's a grayscenario. Right? That is a
reality of leadership.
And so knowing how to operate inthat, all the way to how you
should be spending your time,how you should be investing your
resources, what causes youshould be giving to, these are
all areas that oftentimes it'snot right or wrong. It's good
versus best. It requires greatthinking. Great thinking is an
(07:26):
exercise in wisdom. The secondprinciple that I wanna hit home
is that content can't considercontext.
So we live in an age wherethere's a what I would refer to
as a superabundance of content.And, obviously, I'm for great
content. Right? We have acompany that part of our mission
(07:46):
and part of what we do as acompany is we work to produce
and provide exceptional contentfor impact driven leaders that
want to practice healthy growth.So I believe in content, but
here's what content can't do.
There are limitations tocontent. Here's what content
can't do. It can't know thecontext of the relationships
(08:06):
that are involved in thedecisions that you're making. It
can't know what has occurredover an extended period of time.
It can't know where you're atpersonally in the situation.
It can't know the emotions andmultivariable nature of the
situations that you're involvedin and the decisions that you're
focused on. It can't know thefull extent of your dreams,
hopes, fears. It can't know youremotional state. It can't it
(08:29):
can't capture all of thosethings. Right?
I write content, and I like tothink I I write really
thoughtful content. There's noway I could ever write content
that captures every singlevariable that you're facing in
your life and in your leadershipright now. And so what you have
to have the ability to do is totake in great content and in the
context of great content, say,how does this apply to my
(08:53):
current situation, to thiscurrent decision, to our current
scenario? And it requires wisdomto be able to answer that
question. A great example ofthis is John Maxwell's book, the
21 irrefutable laws ofleadership.
Now you can know those lawsbackwards and forwards, and I
would recommend you do. It's apowerful book, and it's an
(09:13):
incredible leadership studythat's just so practical.
However, if you don't know howto apply those rules to the
situation that you're focusingon, you are gonna be a cookie
cutter in a game that neverasked for a cookie cutter.
People are gonna feel like youdon't respect them, or people
are gonna lack trust for youbecause you operate in a black
(09:33):
and white dichotomy instead ofasking the question and
answering with wisdom. How dothese overarching generalities
and principles apply to ourcurrent situation?
It requires wisdom. And thenfinally, number three, wisdom. I
want you to hear this. Wisdom isessential for anyone that works
with problems, people, orpotential. Now think about that
(09:57):
for a second.
Problems, when things go awry,people, relationships, and
potential, what could be. Well,man, if that's not a great three
word description of what leadersso often have to focus on. Why
do leaders on an org chart getpaid more? The reason why they
(10:17):
get paid more is because they'vegot bigger problems to deal
with. Right?
Like, that's literally why weunderstand. Like, man, as you
rise up an org chart, you shouldbe getting paid more because you
bear the responsibility for thebiggest problems. Those are
gonna be the things that land onyour desk. Right? So we
compensate for that, and and weneed to understand that that's
part of the role of leadership.
People. We always say leadershipis taking people from here to
(10:41):
there. Right? Lead you can'thave leadership without
relationship. People are thepoint, and so we have to
remember that.
We have to keep that front andcenter. And then finally,
potential. What is leadership inan exercise and what could be in
casting potential for people andsaying, man, here's how we move
from here to there. So soleadership demands all of those
(11:03):
things. And what do all of thosethings demand?
They demand wisdom because, man,you wanna talk about
multivariable games, problems,people, and potential. There are
so many nuances. There we couldnever, in a million years,
conjure up or imagine theproblems that you're gonna face
(11:23):
tomorrow, much less over thecourse of next year, and we
could never write a book thataccommodates for all of those
things. In some ways, you'regonna have to do what you
already know you have to do.You're gonna have to figure it
out as you go.
It's why it's so valuable foryou to have guiding principles.
It's why it's so valuable foryou to have values that are in
immovable, and it's why it's sovaluable for you to have and be
(11:46):
growing in wisdom. The finalthing that I'll close with
(13:30):
before we get into the actions,the rhythms, the habits
associated with wise leaders, isthis idea that I heard a while
back. It was actually, our coachthat, Matt Aiken, that said
this, and I just latched on toit. I said that's such a good
quote.
He he said that knowledge isknowing that tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is knowing that youshouldn't put it in a fruit
(13:53):
salad. And isn't that spot on?Right? No.
If you know me, you know I Iactually abhor all fruit. Right?
And so I'm not eating fruitsalad regardless. But but that's
the difference. Right?
You can have all the knowledgein the world, and we all know
people that have all theknowledge in the world. And they
might have read all the books,and and they might know every
(14:14):
single principle thing, axiomassociated with leadership. But
when they actually practiceleadership, they're awful at it.
Why? Because they have anabundance of knowledge but a
lack of wisdom.
And we are in an age where it'sso crucial that we are
constantly growing in wisdom.And so what we're gonna focus on
(14:36):
today is just an exercise indoing just that. What I can't
tell you is how each of theseactions apply directly to each
scenario that you're gonna facethis day, this week, or
certainly this year. What I cando is I can tell you, man, the
five actions we're gonna walkthrough are commonalities.
They're things that I see wiseleaders doing, and so,
(14:57):
therefore, it would be good forus to be aware of them.
Okay. I've got my outline overhere. So so let's jump into
number one. What do wise leadersdo? Number one, they retain
simplicity amidst complexity.
We already said this, that asyou move up a org chart, you
gain more responsibility. Andoftentimes, what you'll
(15:19):
experience is as you gainresponsibility, as you gain
leadership opportunity, you'realso gonna be faced with
increasing levels of complexity.And that's not something to
shirk. It's actually not evensomething necessarily that
you're probably ever gonna solvefor. It's just something to be
aware of and to respond to.
(15:39):
And how do great leaders respondto complexity? They establish
and retain a sense ofsimplicity. So I wanna talk
about how this applies indifferent seasons. And so I
wanna really highlight here howthis applies in turbulent times,
how it applies in abundanttimes, how it applies in busy
(15:59):
times, and how it applies inanxious times. So what does it
look like for a wise leader toretain simplicity amidst
complexity when things getturbulent?
So turbulent times, I mean, Idon't really probably have to
describe to you what turbulenttimes are, but a key team member
leaves. You you lose out on amassive contract. There's
dissension within the team.You're facing backlash from
(16:23):
customers, and you feel likeyou're doing the right thing.
All examples of turbulent times.
How do you retain simplicitywhenever you got a bunch of
different voices and things aregoing crazy all around you?
Well, what do wise leaders do?In turbulent times, they double
and triple down on controllingthe controllables. Remember
(16:44):
this. The fruit of the spiritare love, joy, peace, patience,
kindness, goodness, gentleness,faithfulness, and self control.
I think so often, it's reallyeasy in leadership when things
go crazy. And maybe it's crazyin the economy. Maybe it's crazy
like the pandemic shutdown thatwe experienced, gosh, five years
ago now. Maybe it's crazinesspolitically. It's so easy to
(17:06):
just throw up your hands andsay, well, you can't control
what you can't control andalmost use that as an excuse to
abdicate responsibilityaltogether.
It is true. You can't controlwhat you can't control. But
here's what's also true. You cancontrol what you can control,
and self control is actually afruit of the spirit. And what
does that actually mean?
(17:27):
Well, it means that we areexercising stewardship over the
things in and related toourselves. And so, no, you can't
control the economy. You can'tcontrol people's opinions. You
can't control people'sattitudes. You can't control
what people say.
You can't control what's goingon on social media. You can't
control the political climate.You cannot control those things.
(17:47):
That doesn't mean you can'tcontrol anything, though. What
can you control?
You can control your attitude.You can control your work ethic.
You can control, the way thatyou're spending your morning and
getting ready for the day as acontributor and not a consumer.
You can control the way that youspeak, think, and act. You can
control the way you listen.
There's so many things thatyou've actually been given to
(18:07):
control. And so what do leadersdo in turbulent times as a means
of retaining the simplicity?They double and triple down on
controlling the controllables.They start by modeling that
themselves, and then theymandate that for the team that
they lead. They say, hey.
There's craziness going on inthe world all around us. We are
(18:27):
not going to dwell and worryabout the things we can't
control. We are going to focuson the things we can control,
and we're gonna pray for thethings that we can't. Okay. Now
let's go to abundant times.
Here's what wise leaders do inabundant time. So what is
abundant time? Man, things aregoing so well. Oh my gosh. We're
meeting and exceeding our goals.
Our team is really humming. Youknow, we've passed our our
(18:50):
yearly revenue markers. Right?Profitability is out the wazoo.
I'm taking more in ownerdistributions than I've ever
taken.
It's abundant times. Here's whatwise leaders don't do. They
don't shy away from abundanttimes, or they don't live in
fear of of abundant times thatends up self sabotaging. So
often, if we're not careful andif we're being unwise, we
(19:12):
actually sabotage, abundanttimes because we can't handle a
good thing. What do wise leadersdo, though?
They don't get distracted orcomplacent by luxury or
convenience. I was recentlylistening to an interview with
Lane Kiffin. Lane Kiffin is now,the head coach at Ole Miss,
(19:32):
college football program. And,this particular interview, he
was talking about when he workedwith Nick Saban, the greatest
college football coach of alltime, obviously, recently
retired. And he was just kind ofreflecting upon some of the
things they learned from NickSaban, some of the things that
stood out as quirky about NickSaban, and and really some of
the things that he said are whatmakes Nick Saban the greatest of
(19:56):
all time.
And he said he'll never forgetthey won the national
championship. And, literally,the day after they won the
national championship I believethis is one of the years that
they Georgia. They won thenational championship, and the
day after, Nick Saban had theregular daily 07:30AM coaches
meeting. And and Lane said atthat time, he, like, showed up.
(20:16):
He's like, what are what are wedoing?
Like, we literally just woneverything. Why are we meeting?
And Nick Saban's approach to itwas like, we are behind. We
spent so much time preparing forthe national championship.
Everyone now has a target on ourbacks, and they're all trying to
out recruit us right now.
And we are behind on therecruiting trail and getting
ready for next year. That's aperfect example, literally
(20:39):
perfect example of what it lookslike to not become complacent or
addicted to convenience orluxury amidst abundant times.
Here's what we so often do. Weexperience abundance. And in the
process of experiencingabundance, we abandon the
habits, the rhythms, thediscipline, the self control
that created that veryabundance.
(21:00):
So we cut ourselves at the kneesfrom sustaining the abundance
that we're now so grateful toexperience. Wise leaders don't
do that. Okay. Let's keep going.In busy times.
What do wise leaders do in busytimes? They keep priorities
front and center. So so wiseleaders always, in all times,
have a sense of priority. And inbusy times, they don't allow
(21:22):
urgency to crowd out the thingsthat are important. I used to
know a leader that would alwayssay, I have to remember that the
things people demand as urgencyis not my emergency.
And when things get really busy,what always happens for leaders,
the the number of requeststhat's made on your time,
attention, and energy goes up.And what we have to remember is
(21:46):
just because it's something thatrepresents urgency for someone
else doesn't mean that it has tobecome an emergency for you. And
so you have to have a reallystrong idea of what you're for
with your time. And that's why Ifocus on priorities. There's a
lot of content out there latelythat focuses on the fact that no
is a full sentence.
And and, yeah, I agree withthat. Leaders need to be good at
(22:08):
saying no. But here's what Ifind about the leaders that are
best at saying no. They're theones that have confidently
defined their yeses. They knowwhat their priorities are.
They know what they're for. Andso therefore, it's not just like
they really even struggle allthat much to say no to things.
It's they're so dedicated andinvolved and committed to their
(22:28):
yeses that oftentimes the noactually comes very natural
because they just don't havetime for anything else. A lot of
times when struggle to be to sayno, it's because we're ambiguous
with our yeses, and so we don'treally know where our time is
gonna go today, so it might aswell go to these things that
feel the loudest or most urgentright now. Okay.
(23:51):
That's busy times. Now let's goto inanxious times. What do wise
leaders do in anxious times? Inanxious times, when people are
fearful, when people arefreaking out, when when worry is
in the air, what do wise leadersdo? They adopt a posture of
gratitude and confidence.
You know, we know for a factthat, gratitude and anxiety
(24:15):
cannot exist in the brain at thesame time. And so when things
get anxious, effective leadersmodel gratitude. It's an
antidote to anxiety. But thenthe other thing that I want you
to consider about leading inanxious times, there's a great
book called nonanxious presenceby Mark Sayers that has been
just so powerful for me and theway that I think about
(24:36):
leadership. And there's a abrilliant illustration in that
book that has just stuck withme.
He says, imagine that you're ina massive auditorium, 2,000
people, and there's, you know, acouple of men and women really
dressed up clearly on the stageleading these people through a
seminar, and they've got themicrophones. They're dressed up.
(24:57):
They're elevated above everyone.And then someone in the
auditorium yells fire. And whensomeone yells fire in a 2,000
person auditorium, what happens?
People freak out. Right? Why?Because oftentimes there's not
wisdom in crowds. And so peopleare going crazy, and you know
who else is going crazy?
The four people on the stage.They are freaking out too.
They're saying, what are wegonna do? There's a fire. Oh my
(25:18):
gosh.
And it's in the midst of allthat that a person who has a
background in fire safety andgroup and crowd control walks
onto the stage and with a deepsense of composure just grabs
the microphone and says,everyone, I need you to calm
down and listen to me. I have abackground in fire safety and
(25:40):
crowd control. We're gonna getthrough this, and we're gonna be
okay. But it's really importantthat you stay calm. I need
everyone to go over to the leftside of the auditorium, line up,
and everyone take a deep breath,and we're just gonna all walk
out of here together.
In that moment, who is theleader? Is it the people that
were wearing the suits that hadthe microphones that were
technically in charge? No.Because they adopted the anxiety
(26:03):
of the crowd. Who is the leader?
In anxious times, the leader isthe person that adopts a
nonanxious presence. As aleader, if you wanna operate in
wisdom, so often the beststrategy is to adopt alternative
energy. If the crowd is anxious,you do your best to lead by
being nonanxious. If the crowdis overwhelmed, you do your best
(26:25):
by just being really calm andcentered. If if people are
really, really excited and justhaving a great time, sometimes
it's your job as a leader tocall attention to the things
that, man, we should be lookingout for.
Not everything is all good allthe time. We should be looking
out for the things that couldcome up and bite us in the
future that we should beattending to. So you gotta adopt
(26:45):
alternative energy, and thatespecially shows up in anxious
times by you operating inconfidence and with a sense of
calm. So what are all of thesethings focused on turbulence,
abundance, busyness, andanxious? It's all focused on
what wise leaders do, and that'samidst complexity.
When things get wild, what dowise leaders do? They retain
(27:07):
simplicity. Okay. Let's move onto our next action. So our next
action is that wise leaders ownlimitations.
So I wanna break this down foryou. What do bad leaders do?
What do average leaders do? Andwhat do great leaders do? Bad
leaders deny limitations.
They just don't even acknowledgetheir weaknesses. If someone
(27:31):
calls out their weakness, theyget really defensive really,
really fast. Right? That's a badleader. What do average leaders
do?
Well, average leaders excusetheir limitations. So so they're
not necessarily bad. They theydon't just say that doesn't
exist, but they also don't doanything to solve for, shore up,
or move forward from theirlimitations. They just say, oh,
(27:53):
that's a weakness. That'ssomething I'm not good at, and
therefore, we just aren't gonnabe good at that thing.
Right? And oftentimes, if we'renot careful, we can call that
humble, vulnerable leadership aswe can say, well, that's just
something I'm not very good at,and then that's where we leave
it. Right? But but there's adifference between average and
great. And what do great leadersdo?
I would even maybe, submit thisis what elite leaders do. Elite
(28:15):
leaders own their limitations.So they they do what the average
leader does, which is they say,oh, well, that's something that
I'm not good at. But then theygo beyond what the average
leader does, and they say, soI'm gonna take responsibility
for making sure that's solvedfor in our organization. I'm
going to make sure that that'sdelegated or hired for, that we
(28:38):
have a system for that, or thatmy team knows about that and
they know how to respond to thatweakness of mine.
Instead of just throwing uptheir hands and saying, well,
that's a weakness. That's alimitation. I'm no good at that.
And just saying that's gonna beour lid moving forward, they
solve for it. And and that'swhat ownership actually is.
Right? It's not just saying, oh,man. That's something I'm not
(28:58):
good at. It's saying, man, howdo we use the multitude of
resources that we have availableto us to accommodate for that,
to to shore up that gap, toshore up that weakness? It's not
necessarily that you're gonnabecome a decent at a thing that
you're bad at.
You're probably not. But whatyou are gonna do is you're gonna
make sure that that individualweakness doesn't become an
organizational weakness overtime. So what I would share with
(29:22):
you here is just kind of anexperience that I had where I
think I actually transitionedfrom probably bad to average to
great leadership in some ways.Bad leadership, denying of
limitations, denying ofweaknesses. Whenever we first
started training and developingother coaches, I felt like, man,
I'm the owner of this business.
(29:43):
We have a coaching business, andI was the original coach. I need
to be the person that trains andmanages the coaches that we hire
because, like, I was the firstcoach. And so I need to be the
person that does that does that.And for a long time, it was
something that I was clearly notgood at because the sustained
management and accountabilityassociated with standards is not
(30:04):
a strength of mine. It'sactually a weakness of mine.
But it was something that was Iwas clearly not good at. I just
wasn't willing to admit it. Soin some ways, I wasn't actively
saying, no, that doesn't exist,but I was just too afraid to say
I'm not good at this. And so Iwas denying it. Over time, I
started to move to average, andI would just say, man, that's
just something I'm not good at.
And and in some ways, I may beaccepted for a little while, and
(30:27):
because I'm not good at that,there's gonna be a cap to our
impact. I made the transition tobeing a better leader whenever I
realized, hey. I'm not good atthat, but there's someone that I
know, being Olivia Graham, whois still our coaching manager to
this day, who's, like, not justgood at that. She's excellent at
that. And what would it looklike for me to say, hey, Olivia,
(30:48):
I am recognizing that I am notgood at this part, the managing,
sustaining, and accountabilityof the standards that we've set
for coaches and really thetraining associated with getting
them to meet those standards?
And I think you're really goodat this. So what if we brought
you on full time to do justthat? And what if I took my
hands off and said, Irelinquished that
responsibility? And it was wildhow fast that got better. And
(31:14):
what's even more wild is thatwas something that, man, for a
period of time was a legitimateweakness of mine that became a
weakness of the company.
Individual weakness becomescollective weakness. And now I
would actually say training,management, and stability in our
coaching department is one of,if not our greatest strategic
strength as a company. Oh mygosh. What happens whenever you
(31:34):
own your limitations? So whatare the things that you're weak
at?
Are those things that you'redenying right now? Are they
things that you're excusing? Arethey things that you're owning?
And in the process of owningthem, you're proactively
delegating, hiring for, orsystemizing or solving for so
that it doesn't become anorganizational weakness as well.
(31:55):
Own limitations.
Okay. Let's go to the third one.What do wise leaders do? They
make decisions, and theywithhold judgment. Again, they
make decisions, and theywithhold judgment.
So I'm really thinking about aportion of the sermon on the
mount when I'm thinking about,this action of wise leaders.
(32:18):
What does Jesus say in thesermon on the mount? He says,
judge not that you be notjudged. For with the judgment
you use, you yourself will bejudged. And so Jesus really
obviously makes an argumentagainst judgment in this
scenario.
Now what's interesting, and I'veseen other leaders struggle with
this too. For a period of time,I read that verse, and I really
(32:41):
struggled with that versebecause I thought, man, it it
kinda feels like I'm supposed tobe making decisions. And in
making decisions, I'm supposedto be exercising judgment. And I
started to ask the question, isthat wrong? And the tension or
the anxiety around, man, I don'twanna judge people or I don't
wanna judge situations made meinto actually an incredibly
(33:03):
indecisive leader for a periodof time.
And here's what I had to learnthat was just so helpful to
understand about the context ofthis verse and I think can
actually help leaders with beingmore decisive themselves. This
is from, some study that wasdone by the Bible Project that
that resource just in general isso helpful. The word judge that
(33:25):
shows up in Matthew Matthewseven one, is a Greek word,
that's pronounced krino. It's kr I n o, krino. And that word
actually has a double meaning.
So krino can mean two things. Itcan mean to exercise
discernment, or it can mean tocondemn. And so the question
(33:46):
that we've got to ask is whichversion of the word krino was
Jesus likely using, and whichversion of the word krino
actually aligns with thetotality of scripture? Well, if
we think about it, there are somany proverbs and psalms, and
even New Testament verses thathighlight the value of sound
(34:08):
wisdom, sound judgment, adiscriminatory eye, the ability
to use discernment, the abilityto be shrewd as a serpent. So it
it is almost impossible thatJesus here is saying, don't
exercise judgment at all.
Don't discern, and don't makedecisions as it relates to the
situations that you're involvedin. What's actually true is that
(34:30):
the version of the word that hewas using means condemnation.
And so what we are called to doas leaders is we're called to
make decisions, but we're notcalled to ever cast judgment,
meaning cast condemnation onsomeone. So here's the deal. You
will hire people over otherpeople, and you will choose
certain people because you'relike, They are better for our
company and what our companyneeds.
(34:52):
You will have really toughconversations where you have to
be deliberately assertive withpeople about their performance
or about their fit in a culture.You will have to fire people as
a leader. You will have tocourse correct people. You will
have to move people intodifferent seats on the bus. You
will have to move people towardschange organizationally that
they don't want to do.
All of those things are going torequire you to make decisions
(35:13):
that are confident and decisive.But what you don't have to do in
the process of making thosedecisions is condemn people or
cast judgment upon people. Andhere's what the most wise
leaders I know understand. Theydon't confuse people's
performance or current statuswith their value or worth. So
(35:34):
here's what I know to be true isis people do dumb things.
People do crazy things. Peopledo bad and wrong things. What
wise leaders understand is thatjust because people do things
that are dumb, bad, wrong,incorrect, just because people
don't meet their commitments ordon't don't do what they said
(35:55):
they would do or acthypocritically or even make
decisions and and take actionsthat lack integrity, you do not,
as a leader, have to devaluethem as a person, certainly
verbally, but even in yourheart. You can just say, man,
that was a really bad decision,or that was a really dumb move,
or they should have never saidthat. And for that reason, maybe
(36:15):
we're gonna really stronglycourse correct them.
Maybe we're gonna fire them.Maybe we're not gonna hire them.
And you don't have to feel badabout making a decision. But
what I want you to be kind ofliberated in is you can make
decisions without makingcondemnation oriented judgments
of people. And that's whereJesus' command to us really,
(36:38):
really take shape.
Judge not that you be notjudged. For with the judgment
you use, you yourself will bejudged. We've gotta hold this
belief in ourselves, deep seatedconfidence that people's value
and worth and dignity as aperson is not tied to their
performance. Their performanceare things that they do. It's
(37:00):
not who they are.
But within that, we can exercisesound judgment and even make
good decisions around the thingspeople do, and we don't have to
hold opinions or final judgmentson who they are as a result. So
what do wise leaders do? Theymake decisions, and they
withhold judgments. Okay. Let'smove on to the the final action
(37:22):
of wise leaders.
What do wise leaders do? Theyinvest in front stage,
backstage, and offstagerelationships. This framework
was so helpful for me. I Ilearned it in a leadership
development group that I waspart of with my church. And
here's how I heard it describedis, think of a play.
Right? You've got front stagerelationships in the play. These
(37:45):
are the people that youliterally have lines with. They
have dialogue. They have a roleto play in the play.
In our work environments, theseare the people that we do work
with every single day. These arethe people that are on your
team. These are therelationships that you are kind
of operating with, whethercontractors or employees or
partners to accomplish sharedobjectives. So those are your
(38:05):
front stage relationships. K.
Then let's go back to the play.We have backstage relationships.
So the this is your stagemanager. This is the people that
do makeup back stage. Hopefully,if you're a man that's a leader,
you're not having anyone do yourmakeup, but you get what I'm
saying.
Right? These are all the peoplewhose task is to help you get
put together and ready andconfident and able to go out and
(38:28):
execute execute the the play,play, to know your lines, to do
what you're doing. They makesure you're encouraged. They
make sure you're properlychallenged. They make sure that
that you got your act togetherand that you're showing up to
what you're supposed to do frontof stage prepared, ready, on
time, all of that.
Right? That's backstage people.And in, in the context of
business and leadership,backstage relationships are
(38:51):
mentors, coaches, pastors,therapists. Okay. Then offstage
relationships.
If front stage is the peoplethat are doing the play with
you, backstage is the peoplethat get you ready to do the
play, your offstagerelationships are the people
that are like, there was a play?I didn't even know there was a
play. And so these are thepeople that weren't there. They
they don't know you as itrelates to your role as an actor
(39:13):
or actress. In the context ofbusiness and leadership, these
are those relationships.
Maybe they're deep seatedfriendships. Maybe it's your
marriage relationship.Hopefully, it's your
relationship with your kids.That, man, their love for you is
not at all going to bedetermined by your performance
in and at the office. Now here'swhat wise leaders do.
(39:33):
They invest in all three typesof relationships. Here's what
average leaders do, and I wouldsay it's really common for
leaders to do this, tooverinvest in front stage
relationships and to underinvestin backstage and offstage
relationships. So often, wespend so much time really
(39:54):
doubling down on our front ofstage relationships, the people
that we are doing the thingwith. And, obviously, I'm all
for that. Right?
That's how you create an engagedteam and engaged culture. That's
how you make sure you don'tbecome isolated as a leader.
You've gotta have front stagerelationships. You gotta have
really, really solid connectionswith the people that you are
doing the work with. But youalso have to have backstage
(40:17):
relationships.
And why do you need backstagerelationships? Well, if you lack
backstage relationships, whatyou so often lack is
perspective. When I coincidewith a leader that's lacking
backstage relationships orwhenever I lack it myself, man,
I I oftentimes don't celebrateor even recognize the highs, and
I I overcatastrophize the lows.So I get on this roller coaster
(40:40):
because I become so emotionallyinvested in the work, and I'm
not having work orientedconversations with anyone that's
not in the work. And so that'swhat I think is so helpful about
coaching.
Obviously, I'm biased, but justbecause I'm biased doesn't mean
I'm wrong. Right? It is what docoaches do? Well, coaches view
your business as one of manybusinesses, and you could
(41:02):
actually think of that ascareless. I think the exact
opposite is true.
I think that's actually reallycareful and helpful because you
view your business as the thing.To you, it's like the highs are
so high, the lows are so low.You're in it. Right? What
coaches have the ability to dois be like, dude, don't worry.
This low is not nearly as low asyou're making it. I've seen 15
(41:23):
other companies go throughsomething similar before. We are
going to work through thistogether. And then also the
highs, they make sure you don'tmiss them. They make sure you
actually celebrate them.
They make sure they callattention to the fact that it's
like, dude, this was the thingthat you said you wanted to
happen a year ago, and nowyou've worked for twelve months,
and you almost just skipped pastit. How are you celebrating?
(41:43):
Right? So so backstagerelationships are so crucial
because they offer perspectivethat we often can't have when we
are in the work. And thenfinally, offstage relationships.
For me, my my primary offstagerelationship is Aspen,
especially since we had ourdaughter, Lily. Oftentimes, I
don't have a ton of time to, letAspen in on every detail
(42:08):
associated with what's going onat Path for Growth because,
quite frankly, it's actuallygood, but that's not the only
thing we talk about. And what'sso nice is to know, man, I've
got someone that I live with. Ieven go to bed with this person
at night, that they do not lookat me through the lens of how
Path for Growth is performing.That is such a gift.
(42:28):
And I I have that with Aspen. Ihave that with, friends in our
small group that we meet with onTuesday nights as well, that
it's like, man, Path four Growthcould be having the worst season
it's ever had in the history ofthe business, and they will not
treat me any differently. Ifanything, they might actually
treat me better, which is so,so, so valuable and so, so, so
helpful. So what do wise leadersdo? They invest, and that's an
(42:52):
act of intentionality.
Even before they need theserelationships, they take time to
make deposits in front of stage,backstage, and offstage
relationships. Well, I hope thiscontent was helpful for you.
Here's what I would justchallenge you with as we leave
this episode. Think about theseactions, and and think
(43:12):
particularly about, man, whichof these do I wanna focus on
just bringing to the forefrontof my mind? And maybe do I wanna
share with a friend, acolleague, or a teammate, or
something like that so that whenthe time arises where I'm gonna
have to exercise wisdom andmight need to lean into this,
it's at the front of my mind,and I'm able not just to have
this be knowledge, but I'm ableto make it wisdom, competence
(43:34):
with regard to the realities oflife.
Let's go. Well, there you haveit. Thanks so much for joining
us for this episode. If you wantany of the information or
resources that we mentioned,that's all in the show notes.
Hey, before you go, could I askyou for one quick favor?
Could you subscribe, rate, andreview this podcast episode?
(43:55):
Your feedback is what helps ourteam engage in a sequence of
never ending improvement. Wewanna amplify amplify what's
valuable to you and obviouslyreduce or even remove the things
that aren't. Also, you leaving apositive review is what helps us
connect with, build trust with,and serve other leaders around
the country. So thanks inadvance for helping us out on
(44:15):
that front.
Are you a leader that wants togrow your business in a healthy
way, serve people exceptionallywell, and glorify God in the
process? Go to pathforgrowth.comto get more information about
our community of impact drivenleaders and schedule a call with
our team. Hey, thank you so muchto the Path for Growth team,
Kyle Cummings and the crew atPodCircle, and the remarkable
(44:39):
leaders that are activelyengaged in the Path for Growth
community. Y'all are the peoplethat make this podcast possible.
Y'all know this.
We're rooting for you. We'repraying for you. We wanna see
you win. Remember, my strengthis not for me. Your strength is
not for you.
Our strength is for service.Let's go. Let's go. Let's go.
Okay. So we're diving into the topic today of wise
leadership. And, really, kind ofthe way I came at this topic
today is I I was challengedrecently by some content I heard
from Andy Stanley. He's just abrilliant leader and pastor out
of Atlanta, Georgia. And he justsaid when things get really
difficult, challenging, ortumultuous in his leadership,
(00:24):
one of the questions that heasks himself as a practice of
self reflection is, in thissituation, what would a wise
leader do?
It's wild how if you kind ofreframe or change the question
from, man, what would I do inthis situation? And you take
yourself out of the picture. Youdecenter yourself from the
scenario, and you just ask,well, what would a wise leader
(00:47):
do in this scenario? It's crazy.I've now used this question for
myself and it's garnered me somuch perspective.
It's helped me detachemotionally from the situations
and decisions that I'm involvedin. And then I've taken it from
my own personal practice as abusiness owner and leader, and
I've used it with customers ofours that we coach around the
country. And, when they'refacing something difficult or
(01:09):
challenging, one of the thingsthat I like to do is not just
give advice. Because adviceoftentimes isn't what people
need. What they actually need isconfidence.
How do you instill confidence?Well, you ask great questions.
And so a lot of times, I'll justask them, what would a wise
leader do in your It almostsounds like an insult because
they're like, are you saying I'mnot a wise leader? But but you
(01:30):
understand the premise there isthat, man, we all obviously and
hopefully aspire to exercisewisdom in our leadership. And
when we just take the stutterstep to ask, man, if a wise
leader was in the position,situation, or decision making
spot that I'm in right now, whatwould they do?
So that's the premise behindtoday's podcast. And, really,
(01:51):
that's what we're gonna spendour time looking at is what are
actions and habits that wiseleaders do? What are some things
that, man, if we, survey thelandscape of leaders that we
would probably all say, man,they are wise. What are the
things that they have in common?Because those are things that we
obviously want to reproduce.
But before we jump into the fiveactions that I've got for you,
(02:14):
let's just first talk aboutwisdom. What is wisdom? Well, I
I love Tim Keller's definitionof wisdom. He says that wisdom
is competence with regard to therealities of life. So in many
ways, wisdom, we would say, is,being tuned in to the way the
world works and operating inalignment with that.
(02:35):
Right? I heard someone say oncethat, man, when you're operating
outside the vein of wisdom, it'slike rubbing your hand against
the grain of a piece of wood.Right? You're going to get
splinters. And so one of thethings that we're arguing
whenever we say that wisdom isnot only a thing when we say
it's a good thing, it's avirtuous thing, is we're saying
there is an objective way thatthe world works.
(02:58):
There is a value structure ofwhat is good and right and
beautiful and true. This is theclaim that we're making when we
say, your kingdom come, yourwill be done. We're saying we
want the kingdom of heaven toinvade this earth, and we, in
some ways, want to beambassadors in that. And so what
we're saying here is thatthere's an objective value
structure, and we operate inwisdom when we get in the flow
(03:21):
or get in the stream of the waythe world works. Tim Keller
says, wisdom is competence withregard to the realities of life.
And then we can think aboutProverbs one seven. Right? It
says, the fear of the Lord isthe beginning of wisdom. Now I
think it's really helpful toremember that fear in this
context is not terror. Fear isdeep seated awe, reverence, and
(03:46):
respect.
And so how is deep seated awe,reverence, and respect tied into
this idea of wisdom? Well, man,when we operate in fear of God,
we're saying, man, look how bigGod is. We are trusting in the
omniscience, omnipotence, andomnipresence of God. We say,
man, God is all seeing. God isall knowing.
(04:08):
God is everywhere all the time.He is sovereign. He is the
creator. The universe that weget to live in, it's not that it
was created by nothing. It isthat it was created from
nothing.
That means that there was acreator that said, man, nothing
is not what I want it to be. Iwant there to be something. Bam.
Life shows up. And the creationthat we operate in every single
(04:31):
day came from, the power andsovereignty of that creator.
And, man, when we magnify in ourminds and in our hearts how big
and good and great and sovereignand powerful god is, well, then
what do we immediately collidewith? The reality of just how
small we are. And what's wild iswhen we're operating in
(04:52):
awareness of how big God is, howsmall we are, what do we gain?
We gain humility, and humility,I believe, is just a sister
virtue of wisdom. So withinthat, why is wisdom important
for leaders?
There's three principles that Iwant us to really understand
before we get into this contenthere today. The first is a
(05:14):
concept that I learned from a abrilliant book. It was written,
I believe, in the eighties ornineties called the contrarian's
guide to leadership. Don't youjust love that title? Right?
I I heard that title. I waslike, sign me up. I'm in. It's a
great book that I wouldrecommend leaders read, but
there's a particular topic inthat book that for me was
incredibly impactful, and it's atopic that I find myself sharing
(05:36):
with the business owners andleaders that we work with in our
coaching community regularly,and it's the idea of gray
thinking. And here's how thisapplies to wisdom.
It is so tempting, especially ifyou are a type a personality, to
put all situations, alldecisions, and everything that
you face into the lens of blackand white thinking. And
(05:59):
oftentimes, we apply moral termsto these things. So we think,
man, there's a dichotomy infront of us. And then with these
decisions that we have to make,which if you are a leader, you
are a decision maker, there'sright and there's wrong. There's
good and there's bad.
And the claim that that the bookContrarian's Guide to Leadership
makes that's just so brilliantis it says that, man, most
(06:21):
effective leaders actually spendmost of their time in the area,
the decisions, the problems, thescenarios that look much more
gray than black and white. And alot of times, if you've
graduated in your leadershipjourney, if you've been doing
this for a while, what youoftentimes find is you're not
(06:42):
operating in the realm of goodand bad, right and wrong. A lot
of times, you're operating inthe realm of good and best. A
lot of times, you're thinkingthrough, man, should we hire
among many good candidates?Right?
Should we fire this person? Andit's not necessarily that
there's clear absolutely becausethey compromised integrity, it's
like, man, there's been chronicunderperformance, but maybe we
(07:05):
could do more. That's a grayscenario. Right? That is a
reality of leadership.
And so knowing how to operate inthat, all the way to how you
should be spending your time,how you should be investing your
resources, what causes youshould be giving to, these are
all areas that oftentimes it'snot right or wrong. It's good
versus best. It requires greatthinking. Great thinking is an
(07:26):
exercise in wisdom. The secondprinciple that I wanna hit home
is that content can't considercontext.
So we live in an age wherethere's a what I would refer to
as a superabundance of content.And, obviously, I'm for great
content. Right? We have acompany that part of our mission
(07:46):
and part of what we do as acompany is we work to produce
and provide exceptional contentfor impact driven leaders that
want to practice healthy growth.So I believe in content, but
here's what content can't do.
There are limitations tocontent. Here's what content
can't do. It can't know thecontext of the relationships
(08:06):
that are involved in thedecisions that you're making. It
can't know what has occurredover an extended period of time.
It can't know where you're atpersonally in the situation.
It can't know the emotions andmultivariable nature of the
situations that you're involvedin and the decisions that you're
focused on. It can't know thefull extent of your dreams,
hopes, fears. It can't know youremotional state. It can't it
(08:29):
can't capture all of thosethings. Right?
I write content, and I like tothink I I write really
thoughtful content. There's noway I could ever write content
that captures every singlevariable that you're facing in
your life and in your leadershipright now. And so what you have
to have the ability to do is totake in great content and in the
context of great content, say,how does this apply to my
(08:53):
current situation, to thiscurrent decision, to our current
scenario? And it requires wisdomto be able to answer that
question. A great example ofthis is John Maxwell's book, the
21 irrefutable laws ofleadership.
Now you can know those lawsbackwards and forwards, and I
would recommend you do. It's apowerful book, and it's an
(09:13):
incredible leadership studythat's just so practical.
However, if you don't know howto apply those rules to the
situation that you're focusingon, you are gonna be a cookie
cutter in a game that neverasked for a cookie cutter.
People are gonna feel like youdon't respect them, or people
are gonna lack trust for youbecause you operate in a black
(09:33):
and white dichotomy instead ofasking the question and
answering with wisdom. How dothese overarching generalities
and principles apply to ourcurrent situation?
It requires wisdom. And thenfinally, number three, wisdom. I
want you to hear this. Wisdom isessential for anyone that works
with problems, people, orpotential. Now think about that
(09:57):
for a second.
Problems, when things go awry,people, relationships, and
potential, what could be. Well,man, if that's not a great three
word description of what leadersso often have to focus on. Why
do leaders on an org chart getpaid more? The reason why they
(10:17):
get paid more is because they'vegot bigger problems to deal
with. Right?
Like, that's literally why weunderstand. Like, man, as you
rise up an org chart, you shouldbe getting paid more because you
bear the responsibility for thebiggest problems. Those are
gonna be the things that land onyour desk. Right? So we
compensate for that, and and weneed to understand that that's
part of the role of leadership.
People. We always say leadershipis taking people from here to
(10:41):
there. Right? Lead you can'thave leadership without
relationship. People are thepoint, and so we have to
remember that.
We have to keep that front andcenter. And then finally,
potential. What is leadership inan exercise and what could be in
casting potential for people andsaying, man, here's how we move
from here to there. So soleadership demands all of those
(11:03):
things. And what do all of thosethings demand?
They demand wisdom because, man,you wanna talk about
multivariable games, problems,people, and potential. There are
so many nuances. There we couldnever, in a million years,
conjure up or imagine theproblems that you're gonna face
(11:23):
tomorrow, much less over thecourse of next year, and we
could never write a book thataccommodates for all of those
things. In some ways, you'regonna have to do what you
already know you have to do.You're gonna have to figure it
out as you go.
It's why it's so valuable foryou to have guiding principles.
It's why it's so valuable foryou to have values that are in
immovable, and it's why it's sovaluable for you to have and be
(11:46):
growing in wisdom. The finalthing that I'll close with
(13:30):
before we get into the actions,the rhythms, the habits
associated with wise leaders, isthis idea that I heard a while
back. It was actually, our coachthat, Matt Aiken, that said
this, and I just latched on toit. I said that's such a good
quote.
He he said that knowledge isknowing that tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is knowing that youshouldn't put it in a fruit
(13:53):
salad. And isn't that spot on?Right? No.
If you know me, you know I Iactually abhor all fruit. Right?
And so I'm not eating fruitsalad regardless. But but that's
the difference. Right?
You can have all the knowledgein the world, and we all know
people that have all theknowledge in the world. And they
might have read all the books,and and they might know every
(14:14):
single principle thing, axiomassociated with leadership. But
when they actually practiceleadership, they're awful at it.
Why? Because they have anabundance of knowledge but a
lack of wisdom.
And we are in an age where it'sso crucial that we are
constantly growing in wisdom.And so what we're gonna focus on
(14:36):
today is just an exercise indoing just that. What I can't
tell you is how each of theseactions apply directly to each
scenario that you're gonna facethis day, this week, or
certainly this year. What I cando is I can tell you, man, the
five actions we're gonna walkthrough are commonalities.
They're things that I see wiseleaders doing, and so,
(14:57):
therefore, it would be good forus to be aware of them.
Okay. I've got my outline overhere. So so let's jump into
number one. What do wise leadersdo? Number one, they retain
simplicity amidst complexity.
We already said this, that asyou move up a org chart, you
gain more responsibility. Andoftentimes, what you'll
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experience is as you gainresponsibility, as you gain
leadership opportunity, you'realso gonna be faced with
increasing levels of complexity.And that's not something to
shirk. It's actually not evensomething necessarily that
you're probably ever gonna solvefor. It's just something to be
aware of and to respond to.
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And how do great leaders respondto complexity? They establish
and retain a sense ofsimplicity. So I wanna talk
about how this applies indifferent seasons. And so I
wanna really highlight here howthis applies in turbulent times,
how it applies in abundanttimes, how it applies in busy
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times, and how it applies inanxious times. So what does it
look like for a wise leader toretain simplicity amidst
complexity when things getturbulent?
So turbulent times, I mean, Idon't really probably have to
describe to you what turbulenttimes are, but a key team member
leaves. You you lose out on amassive contract. There's
dissension within the team.You're facing backlash from
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customers, and you feel likeyou're doing the right thing.
All examples of turbulent times.
How do you retain simplicitywhenever you got a bunch of
different voices and things aregoing crazy all around you?
Well, what do wise leaders do?In turbulent times, they double
and triple down on controllingthe controllables. Remember
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this. The fruit of the spiritare love, joy, peace, patience,
kindness, goodness, gentleness,faithfulness, and self control.
I think so often, it's reallyeasy in leadership when things
go crazy. And maybe it's crazyin the economy. Maybe it's crazy
like the pandemic shutdown thatwe experienced, gosh, five years
ago now. Maybe it's crazinesspolitically. It's so easy to
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just throw up your hands andsay, well, you can't control
what you can't control andalmost use that as an excuse to
abdicate responsibilityaltogether.
It is true. You can't controlwhat you can't control. But
here's what's also true. You cancontrol what you can control,
and self control is actually afruit of the spirit. And what
does that actually mean?
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Well, it means that we areexercising stewardship over the
things in and related toourselves. And so, no, you can't
control the economy. You can'tcontrol people's opinions. You
can't control people'sattitudes. You can't control
what people say.
You can't control what's goingon on social media. You can't
control the political climate.You cannot control those things.
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That doesn't mean you can'tcontrol anything, though. What
can you control?
You can control your attitude.You can control your work ethic.
You can control, the way thatyou're spending your morning and
getting ready for the day as acontributor and not a consumer.
You can control the way that youspeak, think, and act. You can
control the way you listen.
There's so many things thatyou've actually been given to
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control. And so what do leadersdo in turbulent times as a means
of retaining the simplicity?They double and triple down on
controlling the controllables.They start by modeling that
themselves, and then theymandate that for the team that
they lead. They say, hey.
There's craziness going on inthe world all around us. We are
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not going to dwell and worryabout the things we can't
control. We are going to focuson the things we can control,
and we're gonna pray for thethings that we can't. Okay. Now
let's go to abundant times.
Here's what wise leaders do inabundant time. So what is
abundant time? Man, things aregoing so well. Oh my gosh. We're
meeting and exceeding our goals.
Our team is really humming. Youknow, we've passed our our
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yearly revenue markers. Right?Profitability is out the wazoo.
I'm taking more in ownerdistributions than I've ever
taken.
It's abundant times. Here's whatwise leaders don't do. They
don't shy away from abundanttimes, or they don't live in
fear of of abundant times thatends up self sabotaging. So
often, if we're not careful andif we're being unwise, we
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actually sabotage, abundanttimes because we can't handle a
good thing. What do wise leadersdo, though?
They don't get distracted orcomplacent by luxury or
convenience. I was recentlylistening to an interview with
Lane Kiffin. Lane Kiffin is now,the head coach at Ole Miss,
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college football program. And,this particular interview, he
was talking about when he workedwith Nick Saban, the greatest
college football coach of alltime, obviously, recently
retired. And he was just kind ofreflecting upon some of the
things they learned from NickSaban, some of the things that
stood out as quirky about NickSaban, and and really some of
the things that he said are whatmakes Nick Saban the greatest of
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all time.
And he said he'll never forgetthey won the national
championship. And, literally,the day after they won the
national championship I believethis is one of the years that
they Georgia. They won thenational championship, and the
day after, Nick Saban had theregular daily 07:30AM coaches
meeting. And and Lane said atthat time, he, like, showed up.
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He's like, what are what are wedoing?
Like, we literally just woneverything. Why are we meeting?
And Nick Saban's approach to itwas like, we are behind. We
spent so much time preparing forthe national championship.
Everyone now has a target on ourbacks, and they're all trying to
out recruit us right now.
And we are behind on therecruiting trail and getting
ready for next year. That's aperfect example, literally
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perfect example of what it lookslike to not become complacent or
addicted to convenience orluxury amidst abundant times.
Here's what we so often do. Weexperience abundance. And in the
process of experiencingabundance, we abandon the
habits, the rhythms, thediscipline, the self control
that created that veryabundance.
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So we cut ourselves at the kneesfrom sustaining the abundance
that we're now so grateful toexperience. Wise leaders don't
do that. Okay. Let's keep going.In busy times.
What do wise leaders do in busytimes? They keep priorities
front and center. So so wiseleaders always, in all times,
have a sense of priority. And inbusy times, they don't allow
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urgency to crowd out the thingsthat are important. I used to
know a leader that would alwayssay, I have to remember that the
things people demand as urgencyis not my emergency.
And when things get really busy,what always happens for leaders,
the the number of requeststhat's made on your time,
attention, and energy goes up.And what we have to remember is
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just because it's something thatrepresents urgency for someone
else doesn't mean that it has tobecome an emergency for you. And
so you have to have a reallystrong idea of what you're for
with your time. And that's why Ifocus on priorities. There's a
lot of content out there latelythat focuses on the fact that no
is a full sentence.
And and, yeah, I agree withthat. Leaders need to be good at
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saying no. But here's what Ifind about the leaders that are
best at saying no. They're theones that have confidently
defined their yeses. They knowwhat their priorities are.
They know what they're for. Andso therefore, it's not just like
they really even struggle allthat much to say no to things.
It's they're so dedicated andinvolved and committed to their
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yeses that oftentimes the noactually comes very natural
because they just don't havetime for anything else. A lot of
times when struggle to be to sayno, it's because we're ambiguous
with our yeses, and so we don'treally know where our time is
gonna go today, so it might aswell go to these things that
feel the loudest or most urgentright now. Okay.
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That's busy times. Now let's goto inanxious times. What do wise
leaders do in anxious times? Inanxious times, when people are
fearful, when people arefreaking out, when when worry is
in the air, what do wise leadersdo? They adopt a posture of
gratitude and confidence.
You know, we know for a factthat, gratitude and anxiety
(24:15):
cannot exist in the brain at thesame time. And so when things
get anxious, effective leadersmodel gratitude. It's an
antidote to anxiety. But thenthe other thing that I want you
to consider about leading inanxious times, there's a great
book called nonanxious presenceby Mark Sayers that has been
just so powerful for me and theway that I think about
(24:36):
leadership. And there's a abrilliant illustration in that
book that has just stuck withme.
He says, imagine that you're ina massive auditorium, 2,000
people, and there's, you know, acouple of men and women really
dressed up clearly on the stageleading these people through a
seminar, and they've got themicrophones. They're dressed up.
(24:57):
They're elevated above everyone.And then someone in the
auditorium yells fire. And whensomeone yells fire in a 2,000
person auditorium, what happens?
People freak out. Right? Why?Because oftentimes there's not
wisdom in crowds. And so peopleare going crazy, and you know
who else is going crazy?
The four people on the stage.They are freaking out too.
They're saying, what are wegonna do? There's a fire. Oh my
(25:18):
gosh.
And it's in the midst of allthat that a person who has a
background in fire safety andgroup and crowd control walks
onto the stage and with a deepsense of composure just grabs
the microphone and says,everyone, I need you to calm
down and listen to me. I have abackground in fire safety and
(25:40):
crowd control. We're gonna getthrough this, and we're gonna be
okay. But it's really importantthat you stay calm. I need
everyone to go over to the leftside of the auditorium, line up,
and everyone take a deep breath,and we're just gonna all walk
out of here together.
In that moment, who is theleader? Is it the people that
were wearing the suits that hadthe microphones that were
technically in charge? No.Because they adopted the anxiety
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of the crowd. Who is the leader?
In anxious times, the leader isthe person that adopts a
nonanxious presence. As aleader, if you wanna operate in
wisdom, so often the beststrategy is to adopt alternative
energy. If the crowd is anxious,you do your best to lead by
being nonanxious. If the crowdis overwhelmed, you do your best
(26:25):
by just being really calm andcentered. If if people are
really, really excited and justhaving a great time, sometimes
it's your job as a leader tocall attention to the things
that, man, we should be lookingout for.
Not everything is all good allthe time. We should be looking
out for the things that couldcome up and bite us in the
future that we should beattending to. So you gotta adopt
(26:45):
alternative energy, and thatespecially shows up in anxious
times by you operating inconfidence and with a sense of
calm. So what are all of thesethings focused on turbulence,
abundance, busyness, andanxious? It's all focused on
what wise leaders do, and that'samidst complexity.
When things get wild, what dowise leaders do? They retain
(27:07):
simplicity. Okay. Let's move onto our next action. So our next
action is that wise leaders ownlimitations.
So I wanna break this down foryou. What do bad leaders do?
What do average leaders do? Andwhat do great leaders do? Bad
leaders deny limitations.
They just don't even acknowledgetheir weaknesses. If someone
(27:31):
calls out their weakness, theyget really defensive really,
really fast. Right? That's a badleader. What do average leaders
do?
Well, average leaders excusetheir limitations. So so they're
not necessarily bad. They theydon't just say that doesn't
exist, but they also don't doanything to solve for, shore up,
or move forward from theirlimitations. They just say, oh,
(27:53):
that's a weakness. That'ssomething I'm not good at, and
therefore, we just aren't gonnabe good at that thing.
Right? And oftentimes, if we'renot careful, we can call that
humble, vulnerable leadership aswe can say, well, that's just
something I'm not very good at,and then that's where we leave
it. Right? But but there's adifference between average and
great. And what do great leadersdo?
I would even maybe, submit thisis what elite leaders do. Elite
(28:15):
leaders own their limitations.So they they do what the average
leader does, which is they say,oh, well, that's something that
I'm not good at. But then theygo beyond what the average
leader does, and they say, soI'm gonna take responsibility
for making sure that's solvedfor in our organization. I'm
going to make sure that that'sdelegated or hired for, that we
(28:38):
have a system for that, or thatmy team knows about that and
they know how to respond to thatweakness of mine.
Instead of just throwing uptheir hands and saying, well,
that's a weakness. That's alimitation. I'm no good at that.
And just saying that's gonna beour lid moving forward, they
solve for it. And and that'swhat ownership actually is.
Right? It's not just saying, oh,man. That's something I'm not
(28:58):
good at. It's saying, man, howdo we use the multitude of
resources that we have availableto us to accommodate for that,
to to shore up that gap, toshore up that weakness? It's not
necessarily that you're gonnabecome a decent at a thing that
you're bad at.
You're probably not. But whatyou are gonna do is you're gonna
make sure that that individualweakness doesn't become an
organizational weakness overtime. So what I would share with
(29:22):
you here is just kind of anexperience that I had where I
think I actually transitionedfrom probably bad to average to
great leadership in some ways.Bad leadership, denying of
limitations, denying ofweaknesses. Whenever we first
started training and developingother coaches, I felt like, man,
I'm the owner of this business.
(29:43):
We have a coaching business, andI was the original coach. I need
to be the person that trains andmanages the coaches that we hire
because, like, I was the firstcoach. And so I need to be the
person that does that does that.And for a long time, it was
something that I was clearly notgood at because the sustained
management and accountabilityassociated with standards is not
(30:04):
a strength of mine. It'sactually a weakness of mine.
But it was something that was Iwas clearly not good at. I just
wasn't willing to admit it. Soin some ways, I wasn't actively
saying, no, that doesn't exist,but I was just too afraid to say
I'm not good at this. And so Iwas denying it. Over time, I
started to move to average, andI would just say, man, that's
just something I'm not good at.
And and in some ways, I may beaccepted for a little while, and
(30:27):
because I'm not good at that,there's gonna be a cap to our
impact. I made the transition tobeing a better leader whenever I
realized, hey. I'm not good atthat, but there's someone that I
know, being Olivia Graham, whois still our coaching manager to
this day, who's, like, not justgood at that. She's excellent at
that. And what would it looklike for me to say, hey, Olivia,
(30:48):
I am recognizing that I am notgood at this part, the managing,
sustaining, and accountabilityof the standards that we've set
for coaches and really thetraining associated with getting
them to meet those standards?
And I think you're really goodat this. So what if we brought
you on full time to do justthat? And what if I took my
hands off and said, Irelinquished that
responsibility? And it was wildhow fast that got better. And
(31:14):
what's even more wild is thatwas something that, man, for a
period of time was a legitimateweakness of mine that became a
weakness of the company.
Individual weakness becomescollective weakness. And now I
would actually say training,management, and stability in our
coaching department is one of,if not our greatest strategic
strength as a company. Oh mygosh. What happens whenever you
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own your limitations? So whatare the things that you're weak
at?
Are those things that you'redenying right now? Are they
things that you're excusing? Arethey things that you're owning?
And in the process of owningthem, you're proactively
delegating, hiring for, orsystemizing or solving for so
that it doesn't become anorganizational weakness as well.
(31:55):
Own limitations.
Okay. Let's go to the third one.What do wise leaders do? They
make decisions, and theywithhold judgment. Again, they
make decisions, and theywithhold judgment.
So I'm really thinking about aportion of the sermon on the
mount when I'm thinking about,this action of wise leaders.
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What does Jesus say in thesermon on the mount? He says,
judge not that you be notjudged. For with the judgment
you use, you yourself will bejudged. And so Jesus really
obviously makes an argumentagainst judgment in this
scenario.
Now what's interesting, and I'veseen other leaders struggle with
this too. For a period of time,I read that verse, and I really
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struggled with that versebecause I thought, man, it it
kinda feels like I'm supposed tobe making decisions. And in
making decisions, I'm supposedto be exercising judgment. And I
started to ask the question, isthat wrong? And the tension or
the anxiety around, man, I don'twanna judge people or I don't
wanna judge situations made meinto actually an incredibly
(33:03):
indecisive leader for a periodof time.
And here's what I had to learnthat was just so helpful to
understand about the context ofthis verse and I think can
actually help leaders with beingmore decisive themselves. This
is from, some study that wasdone by the Bible Project that
that resource just in general isso helpful. The word judge that
(33:25):
shows up in Matthew Matthewseven one, is a Greek word,
that's pronounced krino. It's kr I n o, krino. And that word
actually has a double meaning.
So krino can mean two things. Itcan mean to exercise
discernment, or it can mean tocondemn. And so the question
(33:46):
that we've got to ask is whichversion of the word krino was
Jesus likely using, and whichversion of the word krino
actually aligns with thetotality of scripture? Well, if
we think about it, there are somany proverbs and psalms, and
even New Testament verses thathighlight the value of sound
(34:08):
wisdom, sound judgment, adiscriminatory eye, the ability
to use discernment, the abilityto be shrewd as a serpent. So it
it is almost impossible thatJesus here is saying, don't
exercise judgment at all.
Don't discern, and don't makedecisions as it relates to the
situations that you're involvedin. What's actually true is that
(34:30):
the version of the word that hewas using means condemnation.
And so what we are called to doas leaders is we're called to
make decisions, but we're notcalled to ever cast judgment,
meaning cast condemnation onsomeone. So here's the deal. You
will hire people over otherpeople, and you will choose
certain people because you'relike, They are better for our
company and what our companyneeds.
(34:52):
You will have really toughconversations where you have to
be deliberately assertive withpeople about their performance
or about their fit in a culture.You will have to fire people as
a leader. You will have tocourse correct people. You will
have to move people intodifferent seats on the bus. You
will have to move people towardschange organizationally that
they don't want to do.
All of those things are going torequire you to make decisions
(35:13):
that are confident and decisive.But what you don't have to do in
the process of making thosedecisions is condemn people or
cast judgment upon people. Andhere's what the most wise
leaders I know understand. Theydon't confuse people's
performance or current statuswith their value or worth. So
(35:34):
here's what I know to be true isis people do dumb things.
People do crazy things. Peopledo bad and wrong things. What
wise leaders understand is thatjust because people do things
that are dumb, bad, wrong,incorrect, just because people
don't meet their commitments ordon't don't do what they said
(35:55):
they would do or acthypocritically or even make
decisions and and take actionsthat lack integrity, you do not,
as a leader, have to devaluethem as a person, certainly
verbally, but even in yourheart. You can just say, man,
that was a really bad decision,or that was a really dumb move,
or they should have never saidthat. And for that reason, maybe
(36:15):
we're gonna really stronglycourse correct them.
Maybe we're gonna fire them.Maybe we're not gonna hire them.
And you don't have to feel badabout making a decision. But
what I want you to be kind ofliberated in is you can make
decisions without makingcondemnation oriented judgments
of people. And that's whereJesus' command to us really,
(36:38):
really take shape.
Judge not that you be notjudged. For with the judgment
you use, you yourself will bejudged. We've gotta hold this
belief in ourselves, deep seatedconfidence that people's value
and worth and dignity as aperson is not tied to their
performance. Their performanceare things that they do. It's
(37:00):
not who they are.
But within that, we can exercisesound judgment and even make
good decisions around the thingspeople do, and we don't have to
hold opinions or final judgmentson who they are as a result. So
what do wise leaders do? Theymake decisions, and they
withhold judgments. Okay. Let'smove on to the the final action
(37:22):
of wise leaders.
What do wise leaders do? Theyinvest in front stage,
backstage, and offstagerelationships. This framework
was so helpful for me. I Ilearned it in a leadership
development group that I waspart of with my church. And
here's how I heard it describedis, think of a play.
Right? You've got front stagerelationships in the play. These
(37:45):
are the people that youliterally have lines with. They
have dialogue. They have a roleto play in the play.
In our work environments, theseare the people that we do work
with every single day. These arethe people that are on your
team. These are therelationships that you are kind
of operating with, whethercontractors or employees or
partners to accomplish sharedobjectives. So those are your
(38:05):
front stage relationships. K.
Then let's go back to the play.We have backstage relationships.
So the this is your stagemanager. This is the people that
do makeup back stage. Hopefully,if you're a man that's a leader,
you're not having anyone do yourmakeup, but you get what I'm
saying.
Right? These are all the peoplewhose task is to help you get
put together and ready andconfident and able to go out and
(38:28):
execute execute the the play,play, to know your lines, to do
what you're doing. They makesure you're encouraged. They
make sure you're properlychallenged. They make sure that
that you got your act togetherand that you're showing up to
what you're supposed to do frontof stage prepared, ready, on
time, all of that.
Right? That's backstage people.And in, in the context of
business and leadership,backstage relationships are
(38:51):
mentors, coaches, pastors,therapists. Okay. Then offstage
relationships.
If front stage is the peoplethat are doing the play with
you, backstage is the peoplethat get you ready to do the
play, your offstagerelationships are the people
that are like, there was a play?I didn't even know there was a
play. And so these are thepeople that weren't there. They
they don't know you as itrelates to your role as an actor
(39:13):
or actress. In the context ofbusiness and leadership, these
are those relationships.
Maybe they're deep seatedfriendships. Maybe it's your
marriage relationship.Hopefully, it's your
relationship with your kids.That, man, their love for you is
not at all going to bedetermined by your performance
in and at the office. Now here'swhat wise leaders do.
(39:33):
They invest in all three typesof relationships. Here's what
average leaders do, and I wouldsay it's really common for
leaders to do this, tooverinvest in front stage
relationships and to underinvestin backstage and offstage
relationships. So often, wespend so much time really
(39:54):
doubling down on our front ofstage relationships, the people
that we are doing the thingwith. And, obviously, I'm all
for that. Right?
That's how you create an engagedteam and engaged culture. That's
how you make sure you don'tbecome isolated as a leader.
You've gotta have front stagerelationships. You gotta have
really, really solid connectionswith the people that you are
doing the work with. But youalso have to have backstage
(40:17):
relationships.
And why do you need backstagerelationships? Well, if you lack
backstage relationships, whatyou so often lack is
perspective. When I coincidewith a leader that's lacking
backstage relationships orwhenever I lack it myself, man,
I I oftentimes don't celebrateor even recognize the highs, and
I I overcatastrophize the lows.So I get on this roller coaster
(40:40):
because I become so emotionallyinvested in the work, and I'm
not having work orientedconversations with anyone that's
not in the work. And so that'swhat I think is so helpful about
coaching.
Obviously, I'm biased, but justbecause I'm biased doesn't mean
I'm wrong. Right? It is what docoaches do? Well, coaches view
your business as one of manybusinesses, and you could
(41:02):
actually think of that ascareless. I think the exact
opposite is true.
I think that's actually reallycareful and helpful because you
view your business as the thing.To you, it's like the highs are
so high, the lows are so low.You're in it. Right? What
coaches have the ability to dois be like, dude, don't worry.
This low is not nearly as low asyou're making it. I've seen 15
(41:23):
other companies go throughsomething similar before. We are
going to work through thistogether. And then also the
highs, they make sure you don'tmiss them. They make sure you
actually celebrate them.
They make sure they callattention to the fact that it's
like, dude, this was the thingthat you said you wanted to
happen a year ago, and nowyou've worked for twelve months,
and you almost just skipped pastit. How are you celebrating?
(41:43):
Right? So so backstagerelationships are so crucial
because they offer perspectivethat we often can't have when we
are in the work. And thenfinally, offstage relationships.
For me, my my primary offstagerelationship is Aspen,
especially since we had ourdaughter, Lily. Oftentimes, I
don't have a ton of time to, letAspen in on every detail
(42:08):
associated with what's going onat Path for Growth because,
quite frankly, it's actuallygood, but that's not the only
thing we talk about. And what'sso nice is to know, man, I've
got someone that I live with. Ieven go to bed with this person
at night, that they do not lookat me through the lens of how
Path for Growth is performing.That is such a gift.
(42:28):
And I I have that with Aspen. Ihave that with, friends in our
small group that we meet with onTuesday nights as well, that
it's like, man, Path four Growthcould be having the worst season
it's ever had in the history ofthe business, and they will not
treat me any differently. Ifanything, they might actually
treat me better, which is so,so, so valuable and so, so, so
helpful. So what do wise leadersdo? They invest, and that's an
(42:52):
act of intentionality.
Even before they need theserelationships, they take time to
make deposits in front of stage,backstage, and offstage
relationships. Well, I hope thiscontent was helpful for you.
Here's what I would justchallenge you with as we leave
this episode. Think about theseactions, and and think
(43:12):
particularly about, man, whichof these do I wanna focus on
just bringing to the forefrontof my mind? And maybe do I wanna
share with a friend, acolleague, or a teammate, or
something like that so that whenthe time arises where I'm gonna
have to exercise wisdom andmight need to lean into this,
it's at the front of my mind,and I'm able not just to have
this be knowledge, but I'm ableto make it wisdom, competence
(43:34):
with regard to the realities oflife.
Let's go. Well, there you haveit. Thanks so much for joining
us for this episode. If you wantany of the information or
resources that we mentioned,that's all in the show notes.
Hey, before you go, could I askyou for one quick favor?
Could you subscribe, rate, andreview this podcast episode?
(43:55):
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(44:15):
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Are you a leader that wants togrow your business in a healthy
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process? Go to pathforgrowth.comto get more information about
our community of impact drivenleaders and schedule a call with
our team. Hey, thank you so muchto the Path for Growth team,
Kyle Cummings and the crew atPodCircle, and the remarkable
(44:39):
leaders that are activelyengaged in the Path for Growth
community. Y'all are the peoplethat make this podcast possible.
Y'all know this.
We're rooting for you. We'repraying for you. We wanna see
you win. Remember, my strengthis not for me. Your strength is
not for you.
Our strength is for service.Let's go. Let's go. Let's go.
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