April 15, 2025 • 33 mins
When taking steps to make your business data-driven, seemingly small actions can have a massive impact. In this episode, Path for Growth coach Matt Aiken walks us through 6 of those small actions you can take to start identifying, collecting, and using the data that matters most for the outcomes you’re trying to achieve. He and Alex also provide advice for getting your team on board with these changes, and they share some examples of how data has informed their work at Path for Growth.
Information isn’t the gap between failure and success—action is. Path for Growth’s 1-on-1 coaching helps you create a plan and execute on what matters most for your business. Apply today at pathforgrowth.com/coaching.
Episode Recap:
- Nothing small, when done right, is actually small
- Get clear on your desired outcome and how you will measure it
- Identify the processes associated with that outcome
- Pick 1-3 attributes that will have the biggest impact on your outcome
- Know the difference between lead measures and lag measures
- Identify a metric owner — and don’t let it be you!
- Set your target for the metric
- Determine a rhythm to update and review the data
If you’re ready to move beyond just gathering information and start executing on what truly matters, Path for Growth’s 1-on-1 coaching can help. Apply now at pathforgrowth.com/coaching.
Resources:
Follow the podcast on Apple or Spotify
Try Path for Growth 1on1 Coaching Free for 14 Days
Download the Free Reading Guide
Join us for our 2025 Experience – Long Game Leadership
Listen to “Grow Your Business with Better Data”
Connect with our Founder Alex Judd on LinkedIn and Instagram
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Alex Judd (00:00):
Okay, Matt. We are wrapping up this topic of data
(00:03):
driven business with a reallypractical episode. Set people up
for what we're about to walkthrough and how they should
engage with it.
Matt Aiken (00:12):
Yeah. One of my favorite things to do, whether
it's in my business or as acoach, is to have a
whiteboarding session aroundwhat are we looking at, how are
we going to track our success,what data do we have, And then
building that new rhythm orstructure as we try to
accomplish a new goal orrecommit to a goal we've already
(00:35):
had. I just love doing this withmy customers and my team. So
today, what we're going to bedoing is a lot of doing. So if
you want, grab a pencil or sharethis with your team and let's
start figuring out what we wantto start tracking and how we're
going to go about doing thatsuccessfully.
Alex Judd (00:53):
That's right. And the principle that I want to
encourage, particularlyfounders, to keep in mind as we
engage with these actions thatMatt's got, there's gonna be six
of them, is nothing small doneright is actually small. And so
these six actions representgetting into the nitty gritty of
(01:13):
measuring something right. Andwhat I can tell you is that if
you just even choose thesmallest thing in your business
that you say, ma'am, we're goingto create a standard. We're
going to measure that standard.
We're gonna evaluate andimprove. The ramifications for
that go well beyond even the theminute scope of that individual
thing. And so I want you to staymotivated for doing this in a
(01:37):
way that might not feel likeit's making sweeping changes to
your business, but just knowthat it's going to be really
meaningful. So with that, Matt,let's get really practical.
What's action number one?
Matt Aiken (01:48):
Yeah. Action number one, get clear on desired
outcome. So many leaders that Iwork with, they're not clear on
why they're looking at data orthey're not clear about where
they're going. And so really tothat point, just highlighted to
us of like, we're trying to makeprogress. We're trying to move
(02:09):
towards a different version ofthe business, hopefully tied to
your vision.
Let's get clear about desiredoutcome. And so right now, let's
get clear. We're trying todefine the outcomes
organizationally. Like these arethe things our organization
wants to achieve. Are we gettingclear departmentally?
Like right now we're focused onan underperforming department or
(02:31):
we're doubling down on a highlyperforming department. Or are we
talking about individually?What's the vision for what we
want to accomplish by sittingdown and looking at the data?
And so that could be somethingalong the lines of, hey, we want
to grow our podcast reach andeffectiveness. Let's start with
(02:54):
a statement.
We want to grow the podcastreach and effectiveness. Or for
my business, we want to becomethe top selling national parks
board game on Amazon. What isthe outcome that we're trying to
accomplish?
Alex Judd (03:10):
Yeah. And I mean, we, myself, Michelle, our director
of operations, Phil, the guythat's helping us with marketing
right now, we had a conversationaround this for the podcast the
other day, and we wrote thesuccess statement. This is the
most broad standard. Right?We're gonna we're gonna use this
as an example for the futureactions as well, but the podcast
audience is growing.
(03:30):
Right? That's our that's ouroutcome that we've now applied
ourselves to, which it may soundlike ridiculous, but hopefully
y'all can empathize with this inthe business you're in. It's
like there have been years ofour business where we never said
that. We never said that that'sa stated goal, and it was
something where in in my heart,I was like, man, I I would like
for it to be growing. Therewould be seasons where it
(03:51):
wasn't, but then it's like,well, we never established the
desired outcome is podcastgrowth, and therefore no one
could own that outcome, and noone asked the question, how
should we measure that?
And so therefore, shocking. Itdidn't, right? So now, where was
this episode four years ago? Icould have used it. Okay.
Anything else you want to shareon number one of establishing
(04:12):
the desired outcome?
Matt Aiken (04:13):
With establishing the desired outcome, the goal is
one, what is the statement? Wewant to be true. And then how
would we measure that? I thinkdon't have to write it down yet,
but start to have it in the backof your head, how would we
measure if this is true? So ifit's the podcast is growing,
well, we would measure that bywhat?
(04:34):
Hey, this is how many peoplelistened or this is how many
people downloaded, this is howmany people completed. Start to
think through what are we goingto measure? What's the specific
metric that if that metric weretrue or at a certain level, we
would know that our desiredoutcome is happening. So there's
that statement. And then alsostart to think about what
(04:57):
metrics could we or will we betracking.
Alex Judd (04:59):
Yeah. So that's so good. We established that as an
outcome out of one of ourmeetings where we discussed this
a couple weeks ago where we werelike, what format will we look
at this in? Because we can lookat people that just listen to
thirty seconds. We can look atdownloads, which represents more
listening time.
We can look at subscribers. Wecan look at number of people in
The US that listen versus in theworld. And so we're like, which
(05:21):
one of those feels best? Andwhere we landed was like, we
don't know exactly the metric.We'll get to that here in just a
second, but we didn't know themetric at this point, but we
said we're gonna look atdownloads.
So we're gonna measuredownloads, that's gonna be the
outcome. Okay, set us up foraction number two now because
what we're really doing is we'regoing from broad to specific.
Matt Aiken (05:41):
Yeah, and so now that we've got the outcome, what
we want to do next is identifythe processes or outcomes
associated with that outcome, I.E. What are the ingredients that
will help us to move the needleor to influence that metric?
Now, you want to be focused onthe things you're doing right
(06:02):
now. It's a trap to go, what arethe things we could be doing?
Or what are the things we couldtrack? We're not actually
interested in what data we have.We're actually interested in the
levers that we may or may not bepulling. Pro tip, this is what I
like to do. I come from a supplychain lean manufacturing
background.
I like to think about thisoutcome through the lens of it
(06:24):
being at the end of amanufacturing line. Okay? So
imagine you walk into yourfactory, coaching factory or
podcast, the podcast factory,and I'm trying to produce
downloads. Okay, great. What areall the ingredients of
downloads?
And and so you might have a anassembly line that is
(06:44):
impressions. How am I gettingthe podcast in front of as many
eyeballs as possible? And sothat's where you go, okay. Well,
we wanna advertise on Google.We're going to reference it in a
newsletter.
We're going to talk about it inin one of our workshops. Right?
Mhmm. That's an assembly line ofimpressions. So impressions is
(07:08):
assembly line number one.
Well, now we've gotta doconversion. Okay. How many now
we got impressions. How manytimes are people actually
clicking on the link? How manytimes are they opening that
email?
How many times are we gettingcustomers to take a next step?
Right? That's another assemblyline. We've manufactured
impressions, now we'remanufacturing conversions. And
(07:29):
then you can maybe go likeretention.
Okay, how often are the samepeople coming back to listen
again another time? And so whatare you doing? You're
documenting the ingredients thatultimately results in downloads.
And so be thinking about theprocesses, outcomes associated
with that big outcome.
Alex Judd (07:50):
Mhmm. I mean, you can go so deep into this, right?
With limited resources, limitedtime, how deep should people go?
Matt Aiken (07:59):
Yeah. One of the things that, I guess, I've grown
adept at is realizing I havesixty minutes to talk about
this. Okay. I know I've got sixsteps. So how long can we spend
time here?
The reality is, is I've neverseen someone mess this up by
under identifying theingredients. Because what's
(08:23):
gonna happen, we'll talk aboutit in a later step, you'll
realize, well, something'shappening to my outcome. The
ingredients aren't changing. Arewe missing an ingredient? And
so, hey, set set a time limit,get a whiteboard, have someone
asking those questions, make itvisual.
And then at some point say like,hey, do we have enough to move
(08:45):
to the next step? Yes, that'stotally going to be a gut
reaction. So maybe you startwith individual over
organizational, But giveyourself a time limit and commit
to documenting as much as youcan.
Alex Judd (08:58):
And are ingredients the inputs that will contribute
to the desired output? Is that afair way to think about it?
Matt Aiken (09:07):
Yeah. I I bake sourdough. It's a hobby that,
like so many others, I I pickedup early on. And so how do you
make great sourdough? Well,there's a mix of ingredients,
like we call it impressions,conversions.
And then there's also a mix ofenvironment. There's a mix of
order and steps. And so when youstart out with data, you are
(09:31):
trying to figure out what arethe inputs that create the
outputs, but also how would wemeasure the environment in which
which those the context. Right?Context is king.
The context in which we couldevaluate those those
ingredients.
Alex Judd (09:46):
Yeah. Okay. So for our podcast, it's like the
number of times we're talkingabout this on LinkedIn and
referencing the podcast. Theproficiency in which we're
getting guests are like theassets associated with their
episode ahead of time so theycan share about the episode with
their audience, the quality ofguests we get. All of these
(10:06):
things we know.
I guess that's another thingthat's helpful to point out is
almost everything we do, whichis true for the audience we talk
to as well, someone has done itbefore. So it's not like you're
like, oh, we have to go think ofthis original input list of how
do you go about growing yourdownloads for podcasts. It's
like, no, success leaves clues,so go figure out what is the
(10:28):
recipe, and then you mightmodify for your brand, for your
audience, for your community, orfor your customer base. Okay,
(12:16):
let's go to action number three,Matt.
Matt Aiken (12:18):
Yeah, so action number three is pick one to
three of the most importantcategories, right? So you have
that assembly line, you've gotthat visualization, you've got
that list of all the things youcould really pay attention to.
And where I'd encourage peopleto start is focus on what you
think are the one to three mostimportant attributes that will
(12:42):
create success. We talked aboutthis in the first episode,
decisions are bets, notcertainties. So think through
the lens of like, if I were tobet on one to three attributes
creating the desired outcome,what are the one to three
attributes?
I said this to a customer thisweek. We had about 25 different
things we could have looked aton the page. And I said, Hey,
(13:05):
you're about to buy a businessof a similar size as you. And
they're like, yeah, I'll tellyou anything about three of our
metrics. What are the threemetrics that you would pick to
know in their business?
Like use that gut or use thatkind of thinking prompt as a way
to go like, well, what doesmatter? What would I want to
(13:27):
know about a healthy business inmy industry? And so that's the
idea. We want to just kind ofget one to three because, man,
looking at 19 different metricsis going to do what? It's going
to distract us.
We're going to maybe get lost invanity metrics is what Peter
Drucker calls them, things thatdon't actually matter, not as
far as moving the needle. And sotrying to get hyper clear and
(13:50):
aligned around, you know, one tothree potential outcomes.
Alex Judd (13:53):
It is kind of wild in our case, and and I would say
that there's a lot of parallelsto this in multiple parts of
business now. Like, the thingthat I think people stall out
with as it relates to growing apodcast is not a lack of data.
In some ways, it can be anabundance of data because you go
to your podcast publishingplatform, and you see all these
(14:13):
different and it can be reallyenamoring. You're like, oh, this
percentage is listening in TheUK, and oh, this percentage is
listening in this region in TheUS, and oh, this percentage is
listening on Spotify versus onApple. And it's like, you can
start getting into all of that,and and then you take your eye
off the ball of what reallymatters.
And so let me let me make surethat this is a proper
(14:34):
application of this step, is wesaid, Okay, we're going to look
at our seven day downloadmetric, and we're going to look
at our thirty day downloadmetric. And that's what we're
going to be laser focused on ishow many people are downloading
the episode seven days afterrelease? How many people are
downloading the episode thirtydays after release? And we've
got reasons for those things.But is that a proper application
(14:56):
of the step, Matt?
Matt Aiken (14:57):
Yeah, I think I love the idea of those are measuring
the outcomes. We've got growth,but that's really speaking to
trajectory. Is this episodegetting talked about and then,
oh, more people are coming in.Okay, cool. That must be a topic
that other people are talkingabout.
It's telling us something. It'sgiving us some context. So that
(15:20):
would be one, an outcome basedor we maybe call it a vision
based dataset. But I'd also wantto make sure we've got the right
ingredients tracked. And if it'swe're doing an email campaign to
our email list We're talkingabout the latest podcast or
(15:41):
growth guides.
We're doing growth guides nowthat you get information in a
PDF about this episode for youto walk through later. Tracking
the open rate of those growthguides versus the click rate in
those growth guides will tellyou something about the
effectiveness of that tool as ametric for increasing long term
(16:01):
retention in downloads.
Alex Judd (16:03):
Yeah. So the thing that I would really like for our
audience to understand here isthe language that was most
helpful for me was from the fourdisciplines of execution, and
it's the difference between leadmeasures and lag measures and
the idea that both arenecessary. So what are lag
measures? It's the result oroutcome that you're trying to
achieve. So sales, lag measure.
(16:26):
Right? Downloads, lag measure.What are lead measures? It's the
activities that have a greaterthan 80% likelihood of achieving
that outcome. And so what arethe things that if you do them,
it's not a guarantee, but it'sgreater than 80% likelihood.
Like, man, when people do thesethings, it traditionally leads
(16:47):
to this outcome being achievedbecause there is so much power
to measuring those lead measuresas well, which I think is
directly what you're alluding tothere, Matt. But then I think
the art, and that's why it'sreally helpful, you know, that
in particular the customeryou're talking about, I think
the thing that our customersoften get value from is like in
the process of simplifying, likewhittling down what actually
(17:11):
matters most, how do we cutthrough the clutter so that we
measure what matters and thenfocus on growing what matters.
So simplifying I think is a keydiscipline in all of this. Let's
go to action four.
Matt Aiken (17:23):
Yeah, so the next one, and really these last few
are in a very specific order. Sothe first one is identify a
metric owner. So once you knowthe one to three things And
again, it's not a hard and fastrule. We want to base this on
principles. It could have four,you could have five, but
identify an owner.
Based on the size of yourbusiness, hey, you might be the
(17:46):
owner for some, most or all ofthem. If you're a solopreneur,
guess what? You're probably theowner of all of them. But the
idea is we want someone to golike, Yeah, this is my number.
And what does identifying ametric owner mean?
It means that they're gonna bethe person that makes sure that
the number is accurate and wehave some amount of story around
(18:12):
that number. So they own it.They're responsible for it. And
why? Why does it matter that weidentify an owner?
For accountability, becauseultimately someone needs to give
account for this number. Butalso two, so that people can
understand their role in lookingat and thinking about the
number. And I'd encourage you todo this. As much as possible, if
(18:36):
you're a CEO, if you're afounder, don't be the metric
owner. Practice that in wisdom,but don't be the metric owner.
Why? Because you want otherpeople on your team to be
experts on those areas of thebusiness and you can play the
role of visionary to help steerand guide and connect and
(18:57):
storytell. And so, yeah, numberfour, identify a metric owner.
Alex Judd (19:01):
I can speak to where my head goes with something like
this is, like, measuring andmanaging metrics like this is a
lot of work. And, like,everyone's already full. Right?
Like, we we don't have, like, aplace for all that work to go.
That's that's the devil on myshoulder talking, right, to
which here's how the angel, thedata driven angel on my shoulder
(19:24):
would respond.
Remember, we're having aconversation around measuring
what matters. So what's truehere? Either you're thinking
about measuring things thatdon't actually matter, or you've
got people focused on thingsthat, like, aren't being
measured or don't matter.Because if we're if we're saying
(19:46):
these are the metrics thatidentify what matters for our
business to be successful, thatshould be people's jobs. Those
things should be in people'ssuccess statements because
that's what helps them win, andthat's by nature what helps the
business win as well.
So it's highly likely thateither we don't have we either
don't have the patience to say,oh no, we just want to measure
(20:07):
what matters because that'sgoing be good for the people and
good for the business, or we'reactually spending time, and I'm
using the word spending veryintentionally there, or even
wasting time on a bunch ofthings that don't actually
matter as it relates to thehealth and growth of the
business. And so it's justimportant to remember that like
if you are truly identifyingwhat matters as the core
(20:32):
question from which we start allthese steps from, then in some
ways it's like you got to findthe time because this is in
everyone's best interest tomeasure these things and
maintain and even prosper thesethings.
Matt Aiken (20:47):
Yeah, which then plays into this fifth action,
set the target. Why did wechoose an owner first? It's
because so often leaders come inand they're like, here's the
target, let's go. And oh, by theway, you're in charge of this
number. Oh boy, it can beoverwhelming.
If you want to build a culture,because that's really what I'm
(21:08):
interested in this lesson is notjust, I want to help you get
from the plate to first base, Iwant you to get to the team
knowing we're playing baseball.And so to that end, you've got
to bring them in as an ownerfirst and then work with them to
set the target. And when you'resetting the target, right, you
want this idea. Jordan Petersonsays, optimal struggle
(21:32):
voluntarily undertaken. If we'regoing to ask our team to invest
their time in tracking andoptimizing their metric that
they own, we want them to feellike there's this optimal
struggle that they'revoluntarily undertaking.
That'll just help you and yourteam get some momentum to
(21:52):
creating this data drivenculture.
Alex Judd (21:55):
Yeah, and I think sometimes as it relates to
setting targets, visionaryleaders, we've got one play in
our playbook, and that's set anincredibly audacious goal. And
so we reestablish the equivalentof God parting the Red Sea is
what would have to happen for astrategic physical. And it's
like there can in a propercontext, there can be something
(22:17):
really inspirational about that.But let's also remember, there
can also be something reallydefeating about that as well.
And what we're doing here isinvesting more in the patient,
consistent, never ending depositstyle of growth than we are
extravagancy, the massive,miraculous things that we've
(23:41):
never done before but we justread about.
That's not to say you can'testablish stretch goals or
things like that and evenincentivize for those stretch
goals. But let's remember andcommunicate that what we're
really valuing here isconsistent improving and
learning and growth. And eventhe idea that it's like when you
establish a budget for yourpersonal finance, you're saying,
(24:02):
we're going to start payingattention to data for the first
time. That's essentially whatyou're saying. And what's the
expectation that you should havewhenever you first establish a
budget as a married couplelooking at your finances?
Like, we're probably going tomiss this for a couple months,
and hopefully, thank God, havesome margin to be able to do
this. But in missing it for acouple months, we're going to
(24:23):
get narrowed in on what itshould be and what actions it
takes to get there. And so evensetting those expectations of
like, hey, we're not settingthis aim right now of like, we
have to hit this this month,otherwise this entire project is
a failure. Rather, now weactually have the benchmark so
finally the learning can begin.Anything else you want to add on
that front before we move toaction six?
Matt Aiken (24:45):
And this is the power of the third fundamental
of the 12 Fundamentals forHealthy Growth is a leadership
team. When you're starting onthis journey, you want to make
sure you've got buy in from theleadership team, not only on
this is what we're measuring,also this is the target we're
setting because we've all got tolink arms, get aligned and
(25:05):
really say, Yes, this is part ofthe health and growth of the
business. And they're going tobe the ones They're the ones who
are leading the vision on thefront lines. In bigger
businesses, they're leadingtheir teams and help making sure
they're linked arms around whatwe're doing and where we're
going. So would say when you seta target, make sure you get buy
in from that leadership team.
Alex Judd (25:24):
Really excellent. Okay, let's move on to action
six.
Matt Aiken (25:27):
Yeah, so this is really the Now we've got data,
we've got some vision, what wewanna do. Do you know what's the
worst, Alex, is making a planand doing it once. Spend all
this time creating this stuffand giving each other ownership.
Then what? You look at it onetime and you go, well, that
(25:47):
didn't tell me what I needed toknow.
What should I do now? So thesixth action is determine a
rhythm to update and review thedata or the dashboard, ideally
in an existing meeting. I don'tknow about you, but I don't need
another meeting on my calendarright now. And so we're really
just saying, Okay, hey, is therea place right now where we meet
(26:09):
weekly or monthly where we canpull this data forward and have
a conversation that amplifiesvision, where are we going, and
creates alignment? And here, protip, make sure your team shows
up to that meeting havingupdated the data, verified that
it's accurate, and they have astory to tell around it.
(26:30):
Going back to our very firstepisode, right? We've got to
proactively bridge the knowingdoing gap. And in order to
proactively bridge, a bridge isnot something you set down, walk
over and then pick up, right?You've got to set the bridge so
you can go back and forth overit repeatedly over and over and
over again. So have that rhythmand don't skip it.
(26:54):
Alex, you talked about like,Hey, I'm a strategic thinker. I
probably am on that knowingside. You might be a little bit
more on that doing side.Depending on your propensity, it
might be easy to skip it. Oh,the data hasn't changed a whole
lot.
We shouldn't talk about it. Butno, you and your team commit,
link arms saying, Hey, we'regonna try this over a series of
(27:15):
weeks or months. And then we'regoing to set an end to say,
okay, hey, is this collectingand reviewing this data getting
us where we want to go? Wisdomcomes from evaluated experience.
Alex Judd (27:26):
That's right. And there's actually, I think, a
subaction embedded in what youjust talked about with that
action in that you said the worddashboard a couple times. For
me, I can speak from myexperience here and what I've
observed in other businessowners. Just allowing this data
to live in a stale, black andwhite spreadsheet is a really
(27:48):
great way to make sure you neverdo anything with it, right? For
me, data becomes compellingwhenever it's contextualized in
a dashboard that shows trendsand trajectory, because then
it's wild how if you put acompelling dashboard that makes
it visual, and that's the actionitem here, make it visual in
(28:08):
front of people, it's reallycool.
People almost can't help butstop talking about what it says
and what we should do as aresult. And it's really, really
compelling. You can just throwup a good dashboard and be like,
what are y'all thoughts on this?And man, you'll be blown away at
how your team jumps in andstarts to pull apart what the
(28:30):
data says. So I thinkdashboarding is a discipline.
It's a skill. It's one that Idon't have, but it was something
that I had learned that justbecause I don't have that skill
does not mean our team shouldn'thave dashboards. It just means
that we need to contract higher,figure out ways to have
dashboards. That's what we'vedone, right? And so that's what
(28:51):
I would encourage people to dois find people that have that
skill or find ways to developthat skill in people.
And that's very, very doable.
Matt Aiken (29:00):
This is a big blocker for people because
progress versus perfection,right?
Alex Judd (29:05):
Yeah.
Matt Aiken (29:05):
We all want a beautiful looking dashboard and
it is a skill. I mean, went toschool and took classes on this
and there are some technicalaspects to how do you visualize
the data in a manner that'sactually helpful or how do you
shift it around and make itflexible. I make this
recommendation knowing thatyou've got to be careful, but
(29:27):
there are some great AI toolsout there that will help you get
started and help you keep trackof things. I have a person on my
team that I've started to say,Hey, let's load this data into
ChatGPT, making sure it'sprivate, making sure it's clear,
making sure the data is notgetting out into the wild, but
saying like, Hey, let's load itin there. Let's start asking it
for trends and questions andthen let's ask it to visualize
(29:48):
it for us.
Trust for Verified, but thereare just so many great tools to
overcome this perfectionism thatso many of us have. What are we
trying to do? We're trying toget 1% better every single
dashboard review. So if you aredoing the dashboard route, hey,
what's something that we couldimprove on this dashboard?
What's working, broken, missing,confusing about the dashboard?
(30:08):
And just making one improvementevery meeting could really help
you get from where you aretoday, which is with nothing, to
where you need to go. But likewe talked about, great data is
better than good data, good datais better than no data, no data
is better than bad data. Whenyou're doing visualization, make
sure you're not visualizing itin a manner that turns it into
something that's unhelpful forthe team.
Alex Judd (30:30):
That's so good. We do a recurring team training with a
business down in Austin, Texas.And the last time I was there,
they had 29 members of the team.But then they said, Alex, you
haven't met the thirtieth memberof our team yet. We want to
introduce you to the thirtiethmember of our team.
And I said, oh, who's that? Andthey said, his name is ChatGPT.
I was like, that's awesome. Andthey're like, we consult him for
(30:52):
a lot of the things we do now. Iwas wow, that's actually kind of
smart to think about ChatGPT asa thirtieth member of the team,
who you really don't have to paymuch health care costs for.
So it's really fantastic in thatregard. Matt, thanks for the
homework that you put into theseepisodes. I think this is going
be really helpful for people. Soany final words of encouragement
or challenge that you give topeople before we close out?
Matt Aiken (31:13):
Yeah. Get started. Let's be people that are
committed to trying things overa course of time and making
improvements. If success leavesclues, let me tell you, the
greatest businesses in the worlddo this. So if you're sitting
there going, Nah, not for me.
Matt, these steps sound tooelementary. It's like, Hey,
(31:33):
let's give it a try becausesuccess leaves clues and this
really is going to be a cultureshift that does align with your
desire for your people to ownand manage the business and
accept it with it not beingfully dependent on you. This is
a huge step towards gettingthere.
Alex Judd (31:48):
Matt, so good. Thanks for your time today and we'll
talk soon. Well, there you haveit. Thanks so much for joining
us for this episode. If you wantany of the information or
resources that we mentioned,that's all in the show notes.
Hey, before you go, could I askyou for one quick favor? Could
you subscribe, rate, and reviewthis podcast episode? Your
(32:11):
feedback is what helps our teamengage in a sequence of never
ending improvement. We wannaamplify what's valuable to you
and obviously reduce or evenremove the things that aren't.
Also, you leaving a positivereview is what helps us connect
with, build trust with, andserve other leaders around the
country.
So thanks in advance for helpingus out on that front. Are you a
(32:33):
leader that wants to grow yourbusiness in a healthy way, serve
people exceptionally well, andglorify God in the process? Go
to pathforgrowth.com to get moreinformation about our community
of impact driven leaders andschedule a call with our team.
Hey. Thank you so much to thePath for Growth team, Kyle
Cummings and the crew atPodCircle, and the remarkable
(32:54):
leaders that are activelyengaged in the Path for Growth
community.
Y'all are the people that makethis podcast possible. Y'all
know this. We're rooting foryou. We're praying for you. We
wanna see you win.
Remember, my strength is not forme. Your strength is not for
you. Our strength is forservice. Let's go. Let's go.
Let's go.
Okay, Matt. We are wrapping up this topic of data
(00:03):
driven business with a reallypractical episode. Set people up
for what we're about to walkthrough and how they should
engage with it.
Matt Aiken (00:12):
Yeah. One of my favorite things to do, whether
it's in my business or as acoach, is to have a
whiteboarding session aroundwhat are we looking at, how are
we going to track our success,what data do we have, And then
building that new rhythm orstructure as we try to
accomplish a new goal orrecommit to a goal we've already
(00:35):
had. I just love doing this withmy customers and my team. So
today, what we're going to bedoing is a lot of doing. So if
you want, grab a pencil or sharethis with your team and let's
start figuring out what we wantto start tracking and how we're
going to go about doing thatsuccessfully.
Alex Judd (00:53):
That's right. And the principle that I want to
encourage, particularlyfounders, to keep in mind as we
engage with these actions thatMatt's got, there's gonna be six
of them, is nothing small doneright is actually small. And so
these six actions representgetting into the nitty gritty of
(01:13):
measuring something right. Andwhat I can tell you is that if
you just even choose thesmallest thing in your business
that you say, ma'am, we're goingto create a standard. We're
going to measure that standard.
We're gonna evaluate andimprove. The ramifications for
that go well beyond even the theminute scope of that individual
thing. And so I want you to staymotivated for doing this in a
(01:37):
way that might not feel likeit's making sweeping changes to
your business, but just knowthat it's going to be really
meaningful. So with that, Matt,let's get really practical.
What's action number one?
Matt Aiken (01:48):
Yeah. Action number one, get clear on desired
outcome. So many leaders that Iwork with, they're not clear on
why they're looking at data orthey're not clear about where
they're going. And so really tothat point, just highlighted to
us of like, we're trying to makeprogress. We're trying to move
(02:09):
towards a different version ofthe business, hopefully tied to
your vision.
Let's get clear about desiredoutcome. And so right now, let's
get clear. We're trying todefine the outcomes
organizationally. Like these arethe things our organization
wants to achieve. Are we gettingclear departmentally?
Like right now we're focused onan underperforming department or
(02:31):
we're doubling down on a highlyperforming department. Or are we
talking about individually?What's the vision for what we
want to accomplish by sittingdown and looking at the data?
And so that could be somethingalong the lines of, hey, we want
to grow our podcast reach andeffectiveness. Let's start with
(02:54):
a statement.
We want to grow the podcastreach and effectiveness. Or for
my business, we want to becomethe top selling national parks
board game on Amazon. What isthe outcome that we're trying to
accomplish?
Alex Judd (03:10):
Yeah. And I mean, we, myself, Michelle, our director
of operations, Phil, the guythat's helping us with marketing
right now, we had a conversationaround this for the podcast the
other day, and we wrote thesuccess statement. This is the
most broad standard. Right?We're gonna we're gonna use this
as an example for the futureactions as well, but the podcast
audience is growing.
(03:30):
Right? That's our that's ouroutcome that we've now applied
ourselves to, which it may soundlike ridiculous, but hopefully
y'all can empathize with this inthe business you're in. It's
like there have been years ofour business where we never said
that. We never said that that'sa stated goal, and it was
something where in in my heart,I was like, man, I I would like
for it to be growing. Therewould be seasons where it
(03:51):
wasn't, but then it's like,well, we never established the
desired outcome is podcastgrowth, and therefore no one
could own that outcome, and noone asked the question, how
should we measure that?
And so therefore, shocking. Itdidn't, right? So now, where was
this episode four years ago? Icould have used it. Okay.
Anything else you want to shareon number one of establishing
(04:12):
the desired outcome?
Matt Aiken (04:13):
With establishing the desired outcome, the goal is
one, what is the statement? Wewant to be true. And then how
would we measure that? I thinkdon't have to write it down yet,
but start to have it in the backof your head, how would we
measure if this is true? So ifit's the podcast is growing,
well, we would measure that bywhat?
(04:34):
Hey, this is how many peoplelistened or this is how many
people downloaded, this is howmany people completed. Start to
think through what are we goingto measure? What's the specific
metric that if that metric weretrue or at a certain level, we
would know that our desiredoutcome is happening. So there's
that statement. And then alsostart to think about what
(04:57):
metrics could we or will we betracking.
Alex Judd (04:59):
Yeah. So that's so good. We established that as an
outcome out of one of ourmeetings where we discussed this
a couple weeks ago where we werelike, what format will we look
at this in? Because we can lookat people that just listen to
thirty seconds. We can look atdownloads, which represents more
listening time.
We can look at subscribers. Wecan look at number of people in
The US that listen versus in theworld. And so we're like, which
(05:21):
one of those feels best? Andwhere we landed was like, we
don't know exactly the metric.We'll get to that here in just a
second, but we didn't know themetric at this point, but we
said we're gonna look atdownloads.
So we're gonna measuredownloads, that's gonna be the
outcome. Okay, set us up foraction number two now because
what we're really doing is we'regoing from broad to specific.
Matt Aiken (05:41):
Yeah, and so now that we've got the outcome, what
we want to do next is identifythe processes or outcomes
associated with that outcome, I.E. What are the ingredients that
will help us to move the needleor to influence that metric?
Now, you want to be focused onthe things you're doing right
(06:02):
now. It's a trap to go, what arethe things we could be doing?
Or what are the things we couldtrack? We're not actually
interested in what data we have.We're actually interested in the
levers that we may or may not bepulling. Pro tip, this is what I
like to do. I come from a supplychain lean manufacturing
background.
I like to think about thisoutcome through the lens of it
(06:24):
being at the end of amanufacturing line. Okay? So
imagine you walk into yourfactory, coaching factory or
podcast, the podcast factory,and I'm trying to produce
downloads. Okay, great. What areall the ingredients of
downloads?
And and so you might have a anassembly line that is
(06:44):
impressions. How am I gettingthe podcast in front of as many
eyeballs as possible? And sothat's where you go, okay. Well,
we wanna advertise on Google.We're going to reference it in a
newsletter.
We're going to talk about it inin one of our workshops. Right?
Mhmm. That's an assembly line ofimpressions. So impressions is
(07:08):
assembly line number one.
Well, now we've gotta doconversion. Okay. How many now
we got impressions. How manytimes are people actually
clicking on the link? How manytimes are they opening that
email?
How many times are we gettingcustomers to take a next step?
Right? That's another assemblyline. We've manufactured
impressions, now we'remanufacturing conversions. And
(07:29):
then you can maybe go likeretention.
Okay, how often are the samepeople coming back to listen
again another time? And so whatare you doing? You're
documenting the ingredients thatultimately results in downloads.
And so be thinking about theprocesses, outcomes associated
with that big outcome.
Alex Judd (07:50):
Mhmm. I mean, you can go so deep into this, right?
With limited resources, limitedtime, how deep should people go?
Matt Aiken (07:59):
Yeah. One of the things that, I guess, I've grown
adept at is realizing I havesixty minutes to talk about
this. Okay. I know I've got sixsteps. So how long can we spend
time here?
The reality is, is I've neverseen someone mess this up by
under identifying theingredients. Because what's
(08:23):
gonna happen, we'll talk aboutit in a later step, you'll
realize, well, something'shappening to my outcome. The
ingredients aren't changing. Arewe missing an ingredient? And
so, hey, set set a time limit,get a whiteboard, have someone
asking those questions, make itvisual.
And then at some point say like,hey, do we have enough to move
(08:45):
to the next step? Yes, that'stotally going to be a gut
reaction. So maybe you startwith individual over
organizational, But giveyourself a time limit and commit
to documenting as much as youcan.
Alex Judd (08:58):
And are ingredients the inputs that will contribute
to the desired output? Is that afair way to think about it?
Matt Aiken (09:07):
Yeah. I I bake sourdough. It's a hobby that,
like so many others, I I pickedup early on. And so how do you
make great sourdough? Well,there's a mix of ingredients,
like we call it impressions,conversions.
And then there's also a mix ofenvironment. There's a mix of
order and steps. And so when youstart out with data, you are
(09:31):
trying to figure out what arethe inputs that create the
outputs, but also how would wemeasure the environment in which
which those the context. Right?Context is king.
The context in which we couldevaluate those those
ingredients.
Alex Judd (09:46):
Yeah. Okay. So for our podcast, it's like the
number of times we're talkingabout this on LinkedIn and
referencing the podcast. Theproficiency in which we're
getting guests are like theassets associated with their
episode ahead of time so theycan share about the episode with
their audience, the quality ofguests we get. All of these
(10:06):
things we know.
I guess that's another thingthat's helpful to point out is
almost everything we do, whichis true for the audience we talk
to as well, someone has done itbefore. So it's not like you're
like, oh, we have to go think ofthis original input list of how
do you go about growing yourdownloads for podcasts. It's
like, no, success leaves clues,so go figure out what is the
(10:28):
recipe, and then you mightmodify for your brand, for your
audience, for your community, orfor your customer base. Okay,
(12:16):
let's go to action number three,Matt.
Matt Aiken (12:18):
Yeah, so action number three is pick one to
three of the most importantcategories, right? So you have
that assembly line, you've gotthat visualization, you've got
that list of all the things youcould really pay attention to.
And where I'd encourage peopleto start is focus on what you
think are the one to three mostimportant attributes that will
(12:42):
create success. We talked aboutthis in the first episode,
decisions are bets, notcertainties. So think through
the lens of like, if I were tobet on one to three attributes
creating the desired outcome,what are the one to three
attributes?
I said this to a customer thisweek. We had about 25 different
things we could have looked aton the page. And I said, Hey,
(13:05):
you're about to buy a businessof a similar size as you. And
they're like, yeah, I'll tellyou anything about three of our
metrics. What are the threemetrics that you would pick to
know in their business?
Like use that gut or use thatkind of thinking prompt as a way
to go like, well, what doesmatter? What would I want to
(13:27):
know about a healthy business inmy industry? And so that's the
idea. We want to just kind ofget one to three because, man,
looking at 19 different metricsis going to do what? It's going
to distract us.
We're going to maybe get lost invanity metrics is what Peter
Drucker calls them, things thatdon't actually matter, not as
far as moving the needle. And sotrying to get hyper clear and
(13:50):
aligned around, you know, one tothree potential outcomes.
Alex Judd (13:53):
It is kind of wild in our case, and and I would say
that there's a lot of parallelsto this in multiple parts of
business now. Like, the thingthat I think people stall out
with as it relates to growing apodcast is not a lack of data.
In some ways, it can be anabundance of data because you go
to your podcast publishingplatform, and you see all these
(14:13):
different and it can be reallyenamoring. You're like, oh, this
percentage is listening in TheUK, and oh, this percentage is
listening in this region in TheUS, and oh, this percentage is
listening on Spotify versus onApple. And it's like, you can
start getting into all of that,and and then you take your eye
off the ball of what reallymatters.
And so let me let me make surethat this is a proper
(14:34):
application of this step, is wesaid, Okay, we're going to look
at our seven day downloadmetric, and we're going to look
at our thirty day downloadmetric. And that's what we're
going to be laser focused on ishow many people are downloading
the episode seven days afterrelease? How many people are
downloading the episode thirtydays after release? And we've
got reasons for those things.But is that a proper application
(14:56):
of the step, Matt?
Matt Aiken (14:57):
Yeah, I think I love the idea of those are measuring
the outcomes. We've got growth,but that's really speaking to
trajectory. Is this episodegetting talked about and then,
oh, more people are coming in.Okay, cool. That must be a topic
that other people are talkingabout.
It's telling us something. It'sgiving us some context. So that
(15:20):
would be one, an outcome basedor we maybe call it a vision
based dataset. But I'd also wantto make sure we've got the right
ingredients tracked. And if it'swe're doing an email campaign to
our email list We're talkingabout the latest podcast or
(15:41):
growth guides.
We're doing growth guides nowthat you get information in a
PDF about this episode for youto walk through later. Tracking
the open rate of those growthguides versus the click rate in
those growth guides will tellyou something about the
effectiveness of that tool as ametric for increasing long term
(16:01):
retention in downloads.
Alex Judd (16:03):
Yeah. So the thing that I would really like for our
audience to understand here isthe language that was most
helpful for me was from the fourdisciplines of execution, and
it's the difference between leadmeasures and lag measures and
the idea that both arenecessary. So what are lag
measures? It's the result oroutcome that you're trying to
achieve. So sales, lag measure.
(16:26):
Right? Downloads, lag measure.What are lead measures? It's the
activities that have a greaterthan 80% likelihood of achieving
that outcome. And so what arethe things that if you do them,
it's not a guarantee, but it'sgreater than 80% likelihood.
Like, man, when people do thesethings, it traditionally leads
(16:47):
to this outcome being achievedbecause there is so much power
to measuring those lead measuresas well, which I think is
directly what you're alluding tothere, Matt. But then I think
the art, and that's why it'sreally helpful, you know, that
in particular the customeryou're talking about, I think
the thing that our customersoften get value from is like in
the process of simplifying, likewhittling down what actually
(17:11):
matters most, how do we cutthrough the clutter so that we
measure what matters and thenfocus on growing what matters.
So simplifying I think is a keydiscipline in all of this. Let's
go to action four.
Matt Aiken (17:23):
Yeah, so the next one, and really these last few
are in a very specific order. Sothe first one is identify a
metric owner. So once you knowthe one to three things And
again, it's not a hard and fastrule. We want to base this on
principles. It could have four,you could have five, but
identify an owner.
Based on the size of yourbusiness, hey, you might be the
(17:46):
owner for some, most or all ofthem. If you're a solopreneur,
guess what? You're probably theowner of all of them. But the
idea is we want someone to golike, Yeah, this is my number.
And what does identifying ametric owner mean?
It means that they're gonna bethe person that makes sure that
the number is accurate and wehave some amount of story around
(18:12):
that number. So they own it.They're responsible for it. And
why? Why does it matter that weidentify an owner?
For accountability, becauseultimately someone needs to give
account for this number. Butalso two, so that people can
understand their role in lookingat and thinking about the
number. And I'd encourage you todo this. As much as possible, if
(18:36):
you're a CEO, if you're afounder, don't be the metric
owner. Practice that in wisdom,but don't be the metric owner.
Why? Because you want otherpeople on your team to be
experts on those areas of thebusiness and you can play the
role of visionary to help steerand guide and connect and
(18:57):
storytell. And so, yeah, numberfour, identify a metric owner.
Alex Judd (19:01):
I can speak to where my head goes with something like
this is, like, measuring andmanaging metrics like this is a
lot of work. And, like,everyone's already full. Right?
Like, we we don't have, like, aplace for all that work to go.
That's that's the devil on myshoulder talking, right, to
which here's how the angel, thedata driven angel on my shoulder
(19:24):
would respond.
Remember, we're having aconversation around measuring
what matters. So what's truehere? Either you're thinking
about measuring things thatdon't actually matter, or you've
got people focused on thingsthat, like, aren't being
measured or don't matter.Because if we're if we're saying
(19:46):
these are the metrics thatidentify what matters for our
business to be successful, thatshould be people's jobs. Those
things should be in people'ssuccess statements because
that's what helps them win, andthat's by nature what helps the
business win as well.
So it's highly likely thateither we don't have we either
don't have the patience to say,oh no, we just want to measure
(20:07):
what matters because that'sgoing be good for the people and
good for the business, or we'reactually spending time, and I'm
using the word spending veryintentionally there, or even
wasting time on a bunch ofthings that don't actually
matter as it relates to thehealth and growth of the
business. And so it's justimportant to remember that like
if you are truly identifyingwhat matters as the core
(20:32):
question from which we start allthese steps from, then in some
ways it's like you got to findthe time because this is in
everyone's best interest tomeasure these things and
maintain and even prosper thesethings.
Matt Aiken (20:47):
Yeah, which then plays into this fifth action,
set the target. Why did wechoose an owner first? It's
because so often leaders come inand they're like, here's the
target, let's go. And oh, by theway, you're in charge of this
number. Oh boy, it can beoverwhelming.
If you want to build a culture,because that's really what I'm
(21:08):
interested in this lesson is notjust, I want to help you get
from the plate to first base, Iwant you to get to the team
knowing we're playing baseball.And so to that end, you've got
to bring them in as an ownerfirst and then work with them to
set the target. And when you'resetting the target, right, you
want this idea. Jordan Petersonsays, optimal struggle
(21:32):
voluntarily undertaken. If we'regoing to ask our team to invest
their time in tracking andoptimizing their metric that
they own, we want them to feellike there's this optimal
struggle that they'revoluntarily undertaking.
That'll just help you and yourteam get some momentum to
(21:52):
creating this data drivenculture.
Alex Judd (21:55):
Yeah, and I think sometimes as it relates to
setting targets, visionaryleaders, we've got one play in
our playbook, and that's set anincredibly audacious goal. And
so we reestablish the equivalentof God parting the Red Sea is
what would have to happen for astrategic physical. And it's
like there can in a propercontext, there can be something
(22:17):
really inspirational about that.But let's also remember, there
can also be something reallydefeating about that as well.
And what we're doing here isinvesting more in the patient,
consistent, never ending depositstyle of growth than we are
extravagancy, the massive,miraculous things that we've
(23:41):
never done before but we justread about.
That's not to say you can'testablish stretch goals or
things like that and evenincentivize for those stretch
goals. But let's remember andcommunicate that what we're
really valuing here isconsistent improving and
learning and growth. And eventhe idea that it's like when you
establish a budget for yourpersonal finance, you're saying,
(24:02):
we're going to start payingattention to data for the first
time. That's essentially whatyou're saying. And what's the
expectation that you should havewhenever you first establish a
budget as a married couplelooking at your finances?
Like, we're probably going tomiss this for a couple months,
and hopefully, thank God, havesome margin to be able to do
this. But in missing it for acouple months, we're going to
(24:23):
get narrowed in on what itshould be and what actions it
takes to get there. And so evensetting those expectations of
like, hey, we're not settingthis aim right now of like, we
have to hit this this month,otherwise this entire project is
a failure. Rather, now weactually have the benchmark so
finally the learning can begin.Anything else you want to add on
that front before we move toaction six?
Matt Aiken (24:45):
And this is the power of the third fundamental
of the 12 Fundamentals forHealthy Growth is a leadership
team. When you're starting onthis journey, you want to make
sure you've got buy in from theleadership team, not only on
this is what we're measuring,also this is the target we're
setting because we've all got tolink arms, get aligned and
(25:05):
really say, Yes, this is part ofthe health and growth of the
business. And they're going tobe the ones They're the ones who
are leading the vision on thefront lines. In bigger
businesses, they're leadingtheir teams and help making sure
they're linked arms around whatwe're doing and where we're
going. So would say when you seta target, make sure you get buy
in from that leadership team.
Alex Judd (25:24):
Really excellent. Okay, let's move on to action
six.
Matt Aiken (25:27):
Yeah, so this is really the Now we've got data,
we've got some vision, what wewanna do. Do you know what's the
worst, Alex, is making a planand doing it once. Spend all
this time creating this stuffand giving each other ownership.
Then what? You look at it onetime and you go, well, that
(25:47):
didn't tell me what I needed toknow.
What should I do now? So thesixth action is determine a
rhythm to update and review thedata or the dashboard, ideally
in an existing meeting. I don'tknow about you, but I don't need
another meeting on my calendarright now. And so we're really
just saying, Okay, hey, is therea place right now where we meet
(26:09):
weekly or monthly where we canpull this data forward and have
a conversation that amplifiesvision, where are we going, and
creates alignment? And here, protip, make sure your team shows
up to that meeting havingupdated the data, verified that
it's accurate, and they have astory to tell around it.
(26:30):
Going back to our very firstepisode, right? We've got to
proactively bridge the knowingdoing gap. And in order to
proactively bridge, a bridge isnot something you set down, walk
over and then pick up, right?You've got to set the bridge so
you can go back and forth overit repeatedly over and over and
over again. So have that rhythmand don't skip it.
(26:54):
Alex, you talked about like,Hey, I'm a strategic thinker. I
probably am on that knowingside. You might be a little bit
more on that doing side.Depending on your propensity, it
might be easy to skip it. Oh,the data hasn't changed a whole
lot.
We shouldn't talk about it. Butno, you and your team commit,
link arms saying, Hey, we'regonna try this over a series of
(27:15):
weeks or months. And then we'regoing to set an end to say,
okay, hey, is this collectingand reviewing this data getting
us where we want to go? Wisdomcomes from evaluated experience.
Alex Judd (27:26):
That's right. And there's actually, I think, a
subaction embedded in what youjust talked about with that
action in that you said the worddashboard a couple times. For
me, I can speak from myexperience here and what I've
observed in other businessowners. Just allowing this data
to live in a stale, black andwhite spreadsheet is a really
(27:48):
great way to make sure you neverdo anything with it, right? For
me, data becomes compellingwhenever it's contextualized in
a dashboard that shows trendsand trajectory, because then
it's wild how if you put acompelling dashboard that makes
it visual, and that's the actionitem here, make it visual in
(28:08):
front of people, it's reallycool.
People almost can't help butstop talking about what it says
and what we should do as aresult. And it's really, really
compelling. You can just throwup a good dashboard and be like,
what are y'all thoughts on this?And man, you'll be blown away at
how your team jumps in andstarts to pull apart what the
(28:30):
data says. So I thinkdashboarding is a discipline.
It's a skill. It's one that Idon't have, but it was something
that I had learned that justbecause I don't have that skill
does not mean our team shouldn'thave dashboards. It just means
that we need to contract higher,figure out ways to have
dashboards. That's what we'vedone, right? And so that's what
(28:51):
I would encourage people to dois find people that have that
skill or find ways to developthat skill in people.
And that's very, very doable.
Matt Aiken (29:00):
This is a big blocker for people because
progress versus perfection,right?
Alex Judd (29:05):
Yeah.
Matt Aiken (29:05):
We all want a beautiful looking dashboard and
it is a skill. I mean, went toschool and took classes on this
and there are some technicalaspects to how do you visualize
the data in a manner that'sactually helpful or how do you
shift it around and make itflexible. I make this
recommendation knowing thatyou've got to be careful, but
(29:27):
there are some great AI toolsout there that will help you get
started and help you keep trackof things. I have a person on my
team that I've started to say,Hey, let's load this data into
ChatGPT, making sure it'sprivate, making sure it's clear,
making sure the data is notgetting out into the wild, but
saying like, Hey, let's load itin there. Let's start asking it
for trends and questions andthen let's ask it to visualize
(29:48):
it for us.
Trust for Verified, but thereare just so many great tools to
overcome this perfectionism thatso many of us have. What are we
trying to do? We're trying toget 1% better every single
dashboard review. So if you aredoing the dashboard route, hey,
what's something that we couldimprove on this dashboard?
What's working, broken, missing,confusing about the dashboard?
(30:08):
And just making one improvementevery meeting could really help
you get from where you aretoday, which is with nothing, to
where you need to go. But likewe talked about, great data is
better than good data, good datais better than no data, no data
is better than bad data. Whenyou're doing visualization, make
sure you're not visualizing itin a manner that turns it into
something that's unhelpful forthe team.
Alex Judd (30:30):
That's so good. We do a recurring team training with a
business down in Austin, Texas.And the last time I was there,
they had 29 members of the team.But then they said, Alex, you
haven't met the thirtieth memberof our team yet. We want to
introduce you to the thirtiethmember of our team.
And I said, oh, who's that? Andthey said, his name is ChatGPT.
I was like, that's awesome. Andthey're like, we consult him for
(30:52):
a lot of the things we do now. Iwas wow, that's actually kind of
smart to think about ChatGPT asa thirtieth member of the team,
who you really don't have to paymuch health care costs for.
So it's really fantastic in thatregard. Matt, thanks for the
homework that you put into theseepisodes. I think this is going
be really helpful for people. Soany final words of encouragement
or challenge that you give topeople before we close out?
Matt Aiken (31:13):
Yeah. Get started. Let's be people that are
committed to trying things overa course of time and making
improvements. If success leavesclues, let me tell you, the
greatest businesses in the worlddo this. So if you're sitting
there going, Nah, not for me.
Matt, these steps sound tooelementary. It's like, Hey,
(31:33):
let's give it a try becausesuccess leaves clues and this
really is going to be a cultureshift that does align with your
desire for your people to ownand manage the business and
accept it with it not beingfully dependent on you. This is
a huge step towards gettingthere.
Alex Judd (31:48):
Matt, so good. Thanks for your time today and we'll
talk soon. Well, there you haveit. Thanks so much for joining
us for this episode. If you wantany of the information or
resources that we mentioned,that's all in the show notes.
Hey, before you go, could I askyou for one quick favor? Could
you subscribe, rate, and reviewthis podcast episode? Your
(32:11):
feedback is what helps our teamengage in a sequence of never
ending improvement. We wannaamplify what's valuable to you
and obviously reduce or evenremove the things that aren't.
Also, you leaving a positivereview is what helps us connect
with, build trust with, andserve other leaders around the
country.
So thanks in advance for helpingus out on that front. Are you a
(32:33):
leader that wants to grow yourbusiness in a healthy way, serve
people exceptionally well, andglorify God in the process? Go
to pathforgrowth.com to get moreinformation about our community
of impact driven leaders andschedule a call with our team.
Hey. Thank you so much to thePath for Growth team, Kyle
Cummings and the crew atPodCircle, and the remarkable
(32:54):
leaders that are activelyengaged in the Path for Growth
community.
Y'all are the people that makethis podcast possible. Y'all
know this. We're rooting foryou. We're praying for you. We
wanna see you win.
Remember, my strength is not forme. Your strength is not for
you. Our strength is forservice. Let's go. Let's go.
Let's go.
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