How to Get Out of a Funk with Ben Loy

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Falling into a funk is inevitable, but that doesn’t mean you have to stay there. In this episode, Alex talks with Ben Loy about a four-step process for getting yourself out of a rut and beginning to practice healthy growth. They also talk about the importance of managing your funk so it doesn’t lead to burnout, and Alex shares practical examples from his own life for each action step.  

Episode Recap:

• Today, Ben Loy is going to lead us through a conversation about getting out of a funk
• It’s natural to go through periods where you feel like you’re in a rut 
• Unless you take steps to get out of a funk, you can easily slip into burnout
• Own It: You can’t fix what you won’t face
• Talk About It: Be authentic with everyone and transparent with a precious few
• Jolt Your Way Out Of It: Try something significantly different to get a different result
• Practice Healthy Growth: As you move out of the funk, it’s time to ask yourself what healthy growth looks like moving forward
• Anticipate the next funk and focus on your rate of recovery

Resources:

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey. Just a heads up. You're gonna hear a different

(00:02):
voice on this podcast episode.Ben Loy has been a good friend
of mine ever since I moved toPhoenix, Arizona, and he's also
someone that I just absolutelylove to talk business and
leadership with. And that's whyit's been so cool that over the
course of the past couple monthsnow, Ben has stepped in to help
us in a business developmentcoordinator role here on the

(00:23):
Path4Growth team.
And the impact that he's alreadymade specifically in the
marketing arena is just so cool.And so I was really excited for
us to take a topic that we knowin the past has resonated with
the business leaders, thebusiness owners that we work
with and that listen to thispodcast, which is how to get out
of a funk and to dive deeperinto the practical side and

(00:44):
quite frankly, even some of thepersonal side of that topic for
leaders. And so I asked Ben,hey. Could you craft a
conversation that maybe helps usgo one layer deeper than where
we've been on this topic? Andthat's what you're gonna hear in
this episode.
Stoked for you to hear it.Here's my conversation with Ben
Boy.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Alright, Alex. So what does being in a funk look
like for you?

Speaker 1 (01:10):
What does it look like for me? You get get
personal real quick, Ben. Man, Iwould say, like, my response to
that question might actually bedifferent, depend on which
season of life I'm in or evenwhich stage of business that I'm
in. Like I can think of periodsover the course of the past five

(01:31):
years since we started Path forGrowth, where especially in the
early stages, you're kind ofdoing a little bit of everything
and every day looks different.And, and you're spending so much
time talking to people, gettingpeople bought into the mission,
getting people bought into thevision.
And that's just like your jobwhenever you're founding or
starting a business. And I justremember early on, there were

(01:52):
days where quite frankly, waslike, man, I typically love that
part of it. And there's dayswhere you just wake up and
you're like, I just don't feellike it. I would just rather,
like, not be the person that isdoing everything related to this
mission, vision. And and it wasreally in starting this business
that that was kind of almostkinda scary for me.
I didn't have the language offunk at the time, but it was

(02:13):
like, is this okay? Because I'venever felt like not doing
something before. Right? I Ilike, that's typically a
strength of mine. Now I wouldsay what a funk can look like
five years into business.
It's less, man, I have to doeverything and I just don't feel
like doing everything becausewe've got a robust team now and
things like that. It's more justmaybe, can I say, getting into a

(02:38):
rut associated with consistency?We build our business around
making consistent deposits intothe life of the people that we
serve. It's all about growth.Healthy growth in a business is
all about not doing a bunch ofnew extravagant flashy stuff.
Sometimes it's like just doingthe reps the right way and
growing in that way. And you canstart to lack patience, you can

(03:00):
start to lack energy, you canstart to lack endurance. And
sometimes there's times whereyou just say, man, I wanna do
something different. And that'swhat I would say sometimes in
the season that I'm in rightnow, a quote, unquote funk can
show up, if that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
Definitely. How have you seen that play out in other
leaders and other people'sbusinesses?

Speaker 1 (03:22):
I actually think, Ben, and you and I haven't
talked about this, but that'swhere the topic of funk came
from originally is we were on avirtual workshop or something
like that within the Path4Growth community. And it was a
bunch of business owners on thecall. And we had like a slide
that just said, which of thesefeels like it describes where

(03:43):
you're at in business right nowor a place that you've been
before? Like, there were a bunchof different options. Like, I'm
wearing too many hats.
I'm struggling to delegate well.I need to work on my business,
not in my business. And then,literally, I created the
content. So one of thestatements that I put that was
kind of meant to be a little bitof a personal growth statement
was I I just feel like I'm in afunk. And it was like, we might

(04:07):
as well been not have had any ofthe other options because I
asked them, like, out of thesefour options, which feels like
it resonates with you?
And, dude, it was crazy. It waslike everyone put number four.
Right? Like, everyone put, like,I just feel like I'm in a funk.
And I'd be interested to getyour thoughts on this too
because you've got fresh eyes onthe Path four Growth community
and everything we're building.

(04:27):
But it was out of that initial,like, workshop that I just spent
some time with the topic of whatdoes this language even mean?
And literally looked it up, andthe Urban Dictionary definition,
gosh, what was it? It wastemporal state of hopelessness
or depression, which that'skinda wild. Right? Like, it's

(04:49):
way easier to say, I just feellike I'm in a funk.
Like, I don't see many peoplewalking around saying I'm in a
temporal state of hopelessnessand depression. It'd be
interesting to talk about whythat is. But I would say that
definition is what I see playingout for other leaders. For for
them, it can look very differentthan what mine looks like, and
it can even vary like we'vealready talked about between

(05:09):
season of life or stage ofbusiness. But I think we do have
those moments oftentimes whereit's just like, I just feel like
I'm a little bit temporarily.
I know it's a season and I knowI'm gonna get out of it. I just
feel a little bit off. I justfeel like I'm not I don't have
the same juice that I typicallytypically have. It feels like
I'm praying the same prayers,but they're hitting a ceiling in

(05:30):
some ways. And that's how I seeit play out for the leaders that
we work with around the country,quite frankly.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
So it sounds like there's some common language
around, like, what people woulduse if they were in a funk. But
funk is what actually resonateswhen when you when you give that
to people that they can they canhold on to that that term
itself.

Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yeah, man. So why why do you, like, I'd be interested
to know why do you think thatis? I can theorize on it too.
But, like, why I've literallythought about this quite a bit.
Like, why is it that when weshowed that slide that day,
like, everyone was like, funk.
I resonate with that word.Because I think that's really
telling.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
I I think specific pain points for people can be
different. You know? I mean,like you said, I I a funk looks
different for someone in theearly stages of a business than
it does for someone five, ten,fifteen years down the line. And
their problems aren'tnecessarily going to be exactly
like the problems that someonehas in those early stages. And
so I feel like funk is justvague enough that, like,

(06:29):
everyone gets it.
Like, the struggle the struggleis there. They can grasp it, but
there it isn't specific enoughto make people feel like they're
in and out of that specificstage when it's happening. So
that that that's my thought.

Speaker 1 (06:42):
Yeah. And I and I wonder if language of, like, it
just feels off would alsoresonate with people, which I
mean, you and I are bothChristians, right? Like, part of
this could even be looked at aslike, this is part of like a
confrontation with reality. It'slike, what do all leaders have?
They have a sense of hope, andthey have an ideal for things as

(07:05):
they should be.
And I actually think that's agod given thing. Right? Like,
when we say thy kingdom come, Ithink what we're literally
saying is, like, we have avision for heaven being here on
this earth. But, like, you know,the phrase I know theologians
always use is, like, we are inthe already, but not yet. Like,
we are in this, like, in betweentime where we know there's,

(07:25):
like, things that are not asthey should be.
And I guess just for me, like,the way I would say it is, like,
sometimes things feel more notas they should be than others.
Like and and that would be,like, a lot of times when I use
that funk language of, like,man, it just feels off, and it
just feels like I'm seeingthings through a little bit of a
lens of brokenness.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
It's almost like you I mean, you're always you always
have that vision. You alwayshave the the vision of what's
possible in front of you. Butthen there's just those seasons
where maybe you're just notmaking the progress that you
thought you would towards thatvision, and then you fall into
maybe a cycle of of of funk, youknow, from from that lack of
progress when your wheels arejust spinning and you're not

(08:05):
you're not moving forward in anyway.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
I I think you keyed in on something that's really
important for business owners.The only way I would amend it is
sometimes we either think we door we don't at all actually have
the vision. Like, we don't havethat. And therefore, progress
like, how do you make orperceive progress towards
something that you're actuallyincredibly unclear on what it

(08:29):
actually is? And it's reallyeasy when you're starting your
business.
Vision is just like having abusiness that, man, God willing,
makes money and serves people.It's like that's clear vision.
Right? And every day you'retaking steps. But then once
you're there, the moresuccessful you become, the more
options become available to you,which means clarity of vision

(08:52):
actually becomes morechallenging, not less
challenging in a multitude ofoptions.
And you can be working so hardevery single day. And I mean, to
put it this way, have nothing toshow for it. Like, you have no
sense of progress because you'renot actually on some grander
narrative or you haven'tcaptured what you're actually
aiming at. You know?

Speaker 2 (09:13):
Yeah. Would you say is there any difference between
funk, burnout, and depression?Or would you say that they're
all sort of related to eachother or the same?

Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yeah. Well, we we should, start by saying I am not
a licensed counselor, and Icertainly don't have my PhD in
psychology. So in some ways,this is this is semantics, but
funk, burnout, and depression. II was just thinking about I
mean, you know, I used to workfor Dave Ramsey, and Mhmm. He
his commentary on people beingburned out.

(09:45):
He was like, how could you beburned out? You were never on
fire to begin with. Right? And,like so and I actually think,
like, we all need a little bitof Dave's voice in our lives,
especially now where it's like,it can actually be tempting to
use these words as an excuse forlack of work ethic. And that's
not what they are.
Right? And that's not what we'readvising on here. But what I

(10:08):
would say is we already definedfunk. Funk is a temporal state.
You you, like, even as you'rewaking up each morning, not
feeling like it and, like, justin a little bit of a rut and
just feels like you don't havemomentum.
It feels like everything takesmore work than what it did
before, things like that. But,like, at least for the times
when I've experienced a quote,unquote funk in my life, I can

(10:31):
literally even tell people, Iknow this is going to end. Like,
I know I don't know if it'sgonna be three weeks. I don't
know if it's if it's gonna betwo days. Part of what we're
gonna talk about in this episodeis I know there's specific
things I have agency over thatif I do them, it will help me
get out of this state, and we'regonna, like Mhmm.
Talk about what those specificthings people can do are, but

(10:51):
it's temporal. Burnout to mefeels like a description of,
like, an end state. Right? Like,have it's probably funk over
time unaddressed createsburnout. That's probably a good
definition.
Right? Like, if you don't do thethings that we're talking about
on this episode, I feel like thetrajectory you're on trends
towards burnout. And thendepression, man, I don't wanna

(11:13):
touch that word with the 10 footpole because I know that that's
a a clinical thing that I amprobably not, equipped or able
to diagnose.

Speaker 2 (13:04):
So, I mean, you already alluded to it, but you
do have a framework for this.And the first step of that
framework is own it. Somethingthat you wrote was you can't fix
what you won't face. What do youmean by that?

Speaker 1 (13:15):
Oh, man. I've been writing a lot about this lately.
It's actually something I heardTim Keller say is he thinks
that, or thought, rest in peace,Tim Keller, right? He thought
that you could probably captureself deception as the gateway
sin. And what he means by thatis like every other sin creeps

(13:40):
its way into your life, and forthe purposes of this podcast,
would say creeps its way intoyour leadership, by you first
deceiving yourself into sayingit's a non issue.
And I think that's actuallyreally relevant to this point
right here is like, you can'tsolve a problem you won't name.

(14:01):
You can't fix what you refuse tosee. You'll never conquer what
you don't confront. Right? Andif, when I think about my
personal life, there's timeswhere it's like, honestly,
probably the biggest reason whyI choose not to see it more
often than not is it feelsinefficient.
Right? And if what that means isI've become a person that's

(14:24):
idolizing efficiency andprobably massively sacrificing
effectiveness on the altar ofefficiency, But I'm like, yeah.
Like, I don't I don't feel likeit. Yeah. Everything feels like
it it's taking more work.
Yeah. I'm really irritablearound people or, yeah, I'm
starting to look at everythingthrough a transactional lens and
and I would call that a funk,but, like, I don't have I don't

(14:44):
have time to deal with thisright now is what I would tell
myself. And that's that's agreat example of me not owning
it. Right? Like, so I think whata leader has to do is they have
to have the guts to saysomething is not as it should
be.
Maybe it's in the way I relateto my family. Maybe it's in the
way I'm relating to my team.Maybe it's in the way I'm
thinking about my business. Andto name that that is the current

(15:07):
reality because I actually I Ithink that's the starting line.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yeah. That I don't have time, I feel like, is just
so so frequently thrown out in Imean, in business, but also just
in life, like, so many differentcontexts. People just, oh, how
are you? I'm busy. You know?
It's just like this state thatwe, I think, consistently live
in. But I I think it'sinteresting. Like, you I mean,
you point that out as almost anexcuse people use to not be
intentional about what's reallygoing on.

Speaker 1 (15:34):
Well, I was just gonna say it's like,
theoretically, I slash we atPath for Growth, teach this
stuff. Right? Mhmm. But, I mean,more recent than I'd like to
admit, in the last six months, Irecognized that for a period of
time, I was going to bed onSunday dreading Monday morning.

(15:55):
And I would just get this nod inmy chest, and that is very
different than my norm or my goto.
Right? I typically am, I I mean,I I literally, like, used to say
in high school, I used to say tg I m. Thank god it's Monday.
Right? Like, that's what I usedto say.
And, yeah, my high schoolfriends really loved that. I'm

(16:16):
sure you can imagine. Yeah. But,like so for me to be going to
bed and then it's like, wouldstart beating myself up. Like,
why do I why do I feel this way?
I shouldn't be feeling this way.This is something that I
struggle with or that I do. Andto the point that we're talking
about, if I'm looking back andkind of reflecting on that
season now, what's somethingthat I would say I made a

(16:38):
mistake in? I would say I did areally poor job of slowing down
to realize that was the case,and I allowed it to linger way
longer than it should have forquote unquote the sake of
efficiency. And eventually I hadwhat we're about to talk about,
a jolt moment where I had thistime of prayer and journaling

(17:00):
that was like a reset.
And that's where I labeled theword dread. I couldn't have even
called it the word dread before,but I labeled the word dread.
And dude, now looking backthough, it's like I was going
into every single day of everysingle week in some ways with a
lingering thought of dread andburden, do I really think it was

(17:21):
less efficient to not take anhour to actually address that?
Right? Like, it's like Yeah.
Dude, that is some screwed upnapkin math that I'm doing
there. Like, it I think theprocess that we're actually
gonna talk about, it takes arational person to recognize it,
not an emotional person, butit's actually way more efficient
to do the thing instead of just,like, pushing it off and not

(17:41):
owning it.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
What do you think keeps most leaders from
acknowledging that they're in afunk and owning it?

Speaker 1 (17:47):
Pride. Yeah. I that's me. I'd be interested to know,
like, how you feel about this.But yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yeah. I mean, that's what I wrote. That's what I
wrote in my notes.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
Oh, dude.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
That's yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
We're on the same page. So what yeah. I'd I'd be
interested to know what is pridefor you. Pride for me is I like
to think of myself as someonethat has it figured out and that
doesn't need help or thatdoesn't need to slow down or or
that doesn't need to seekoutside. Like, I can seek
outside counsel, but my outsidecounsel is always gonna be
oriented towards the future.

(18:20):
Like, what are we doing? Whatare we building? Not like at all
tinkering or trying to healsomething going on in the
present. I don't I my naturalstate does not like those
conversations. So that's how Iwould say pride manifests for
me.
Is there anything you'd add tothat, Ben?

Speaker 2 (18:34):
Yeah. I mean, I think it's just always wanting to
like, all I mean, you hit youhit the nail on the head. Like,
always looking towards thefuture, always wanting to work
towards or be that ideal or bein that ideal. And so not taking
the time to just slow down andbe like, well, we're not there
yet. And there are things goingon that we need to acknowledge

(18:55):
to get there that involve morethan just putting your head down
and, like, trudging throughwhatever you're you're going
through.
So, yeah, I I agree. I thinkthat's how pride manifests is,
yeah, thinking that you justhave the strength to just keep
going and that it'll figureitself out at some point versus
acknowledging the weak points,acknowledging what you're going

(19:17):
through, and actually takingsteps to find some resolution.

Speaker 1 (19:21):
Dude, and and I think you also hit on, you know, pride
is the internal sin that thatwill keep me from owning it. One
of the maybe external realitiesthat can also drive not owning
it, I think is also reallyimportant to pay attention to
is, I can't even remember ifthis is the proper title of the

(19:42):
book. I think it I think it wasa book called Bad Therapy. Have
you heard of this book at all bychance? Mhmm.
Yeah. What what a what a greattitle to get people interested.
I have not read the bookpersonally. I've talked to a lot
of people that read the book,and I've listened to a bunch of
interviews that she did. She wason Jordan Peterson.
She was on Rogan. I mean, yeah,she did the whole tour and

(20:03):
everything. She's a clinicalpsychologist, I believe. And she
talks about how like some of thethings that are currently being
done in therapy can actually bevery detrimental and that like,
it's not actually encouragingreflection that results in
action. It's encouragingrumination.
Right? Which is literally justself conscious dwelling on the

(20:24):
brokenness of your currentreality. And sometimes, I think
maybe the better angels of mynature would say the reason why
I'm not owning it or I'm notdwelling in it is because I
don't wanna ruminate. Right?Like, I I don't wanna sit down
and say, like, how rough my lifeis and all of that.
But I think that's why it's soimportant. What we're sharing
today is, like, you gotta startby owning it, but you don't just

(20:45):
stay there. You don't just say,well, I'm in a funk. I've now
named that I'm in a funk, and sonow I'm just gonna sit in my
funk. It's like, no.
You name it for the purposes ofthem, like, doing something out
of that reality, not justruminating on it.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
What are some questions that a leader could
ask themselves to maybe get tothe root of the problem versus
sort of the symptoms that you'dsee of a funk?

Speaker 1 (22:13):
Oh, man. Yeah, so I would say, first of all, to name
that you're in a funk, do youlike the person you're being? Do
you like the leader that you'rebeing? Do you like the person or
leader that you're becoming? Areyou viewing the world around you
through a lens of abundance,generosity, joy, right?
The fruit of the spirit areespecially relevant here. Love,

(22:34):
joy, peace, patience, kindness,goodness, gentleness,
faithfulness, self control. Areyou viewing the world through
that lens or are you viewing itthrough the lens of backbiting,
infighting, scarcity,narcissism? Right? All those
things where it's like you'rebecoming basically almost
inwardly turned on howeverything is affecting you in

(22:54):
some form or fashion.
Right? So I would look for thosethings. And and if any of those
things are starting to show likea check engine light, I would
slow down and pay attention. Andthen to your exact question, one
of the things that I found isreally helpful for getting to
the source, this was shared withme years ago. It's called the
five core emotions.

(23:15):
And so the idea here is that weuse a lot of language like funk
or like disappointed or likeirritated or annoyed or bummed.
We use language like that. Andoftentimes that language is
indicative of deeper realitiesthat if we look at the deeper
reality, it can really help usmove forward. And so the five
core emotions, anger, shame,sadness, gladness, fear. And so

(23:40):
what's really helpful is like,if I'm in a funk, a lot of times
saying like, what's the coreemotion here?
Because that's gonna be thething that we're then going to
counteract, right? It, you know,if I'm frustrated or annoyed,
it's probably anger, Right? IfI'm shy or embarrassed, it's
probably shame. Right? If it'sanxious, stressed, scared, it's

(24:02):
probably fear.
But getting that core emotion Ihave one more thing I wanna say
on that, but if there's afollow-up on it before we get
into that.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
Go for

Speaker 1 (24:10):
it. Okay. I would just say that, Ben, have you
read Never Split the Difference?Have you read that book?

Speaker 2 (24:16):
No. I haven't.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
Dude, Chris Voss, like f b FBI hostage negotiator.
We actually on the previouspodcast that I was on, I I got
to interview him, it was likeone of my favorite interviews
that I've ever done. But one ofthe tactical things he presents
in that book is emotionallabeling. And the idea is that
when your mind is governed by anemotion, you have zero ability

(24:42):
to think rationally. And theysee this, like when you are
gripped by anger, shame,sadness, fear, right?
Any of those, you have aninability to think rationally.
And this plays out, apparentlyit plays out in like the
neuroimaging that they do ofpeople that are being governed
by emotion. How do you reducethe grip of a strong negative

(25:05):
emotion like that on your brain,apparently labeling it and
naming it is actually thestrategy. Like in FBI hostage
negotiations, if they could getthem to literally just say they
are angry, everything about thetone of the conversation would
change. And I I can't speak tohostage negotiations.
What I can speak to is I haveleveraged this tool, anger,

(25:27):
shame, sadness, gladness, fear,in so many coaching
conversations. I will askleaders that come in and
literally their their shouldersare up by their ears. They're
they're talking like I mean, itdoesn't even sound like they're
breathing whenever they'retalking. It's clear that an
emotion is going in their theirdecision making and their
rationality. And I'll just askthem anger, shame, sadness,

(25:47):
gladness, fear, which one areyou feeling right now?
And it's wild. They'll waffleback and forth a little bit.
Eventually they'll name it. Andalmost like in conjunction with
them naming it, you'll see theirshoulders start to drop. You'll
see them take a deep breath.
And then you'll start to seethem rationally process what
next steps are. And so I say allthat just to say is like, get to

(26:08):
the source by naming the coreemotion and then make the point
of like either speaking that tosomeone or like writing it down
because that's proven thisability to release your
emotionally governed view of thesituation.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
So that goes on to the the next step, which you
mentioned acknowledging it andthen writing it down or sharing
it with someone. And that's talkabout it. Right? So why do you
think so many leaders, like,self isolate when they're
struggling?

Speaker 1 (26:37):
A couple things come to mind. We work with a lot of
business owners, and I think alot of times you become a really
effective business ownerwhenever you're really good at
taking responsibility for thingsand essentially putting the ball
in the end zone, right? Like,that's my job, right? And that's
what your goal is. And in someways, that's a great strength.

(27:00):
Right? But if you're notcareful, you can kinda build a
house of cards around yourselfwhere it's like, well, gosh, I'm
the person that puts the ball inthe end zone. I can't talk to my
spouse about this. Right? Ican't tell her or him if I'm
feeling off or I'm not feelinglike it or if work feels a
little bit more dread than itnormally does.
Right? And then like thesepeople that work for me that I'm

(27:24):
close to, that a lot of them aremy friends. I don't know that I
can tell them this because I'msupposed to be the one leading
them. Literally, part of my jobis inspiring them with vision
and confidence. I'm gonna be theperson that's saying, Man, I'm
really struggling feeling likeit.
Like, not only is that not intheir best interest, it's also
not in my best interest. Right?And then I think the stage that

(27:44):
I have been at before, praiseGod, I'm not there now, but I
have been at before, and I seebusiness owners are often in
this state, is they say, I Ican't tell my spouse. I can't
tell the people that work for methat I am friendly with, but it
wouldn't be appropriate to tellthem. And like, those are my
people.
And I I don't have anyone else.And then by the time you're in

(28:07):
the funk, it's a lot like whatthey always say about running
marathon. If you become thirsty,it's already too late to start
drinking electrolytes. Right?Like, it's like, oh, so now now
that I'm in this funk whereeverything feels incredibly
either irritating or depressingor hopeless, now I'm gonna go
invest myself in building reallyauthentic community.
It's like, dude, you're gonna bethe guy that shows up the small

(28:29):
group that is like everyone'slike, wow. He just unloaded
everything on us in day one.It's like you kinda have to
build that context before youneed it so that when you need
it, it's there and you havepeople that are able to receive
it and actually help you throughit with wisdom is kinda my
thought.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
Yeah. Do you think when it comes to to building
that community, is there adifference between venting and,
like, being vulnerable withsomeone? And if so, what's the
difference?

Speaker 1 (28:58):
That's a good question, Ben. Yeah, I had a
leader that used to teach me beauthentic with everyone and
transparent with a precious few.And I think that's really good
wisdom. So it was actuallyCarrie Vaughn, who I know you
know, she she goes to churchwith us. I was part of something
where she shared this framework,and I thought it was so helpful.

(29:19):
It's basically like a matrix,like, that helps you know when
to share. The y axis isvulnerability, right? And the x
axis is agency or authority. Andso what we're referring to here
is your vulnerability should beproportional to the amount of
agency or authority that theyhave in your life to be able to

(29:42):
do something with what you'resharing with them. So it's like,
if I with If I go to one of ourteam members, if I go to Bert on
our team, who's just an absoluteall star on our team, and I
actually really, really like theguy.
He's such a pro. I enjoy talkingto him. He works on our team and
he works as the customerexperience specialist. If I go

(30:05):
to him and we're doinghighlighter win at the beginning
of a meeting that we have and Isay, You know, Bert, Aspen is
just really getting on my nerveslately, and I'm really concerned
about our organization'sfinances right now. That's
really stressing me out.
And I also have this issue withour coaching department that
they're really, really annoyingme. It's like I'm being
extremely vulnerable, right,which in our society today is

(30:29):
actually very encouraged inleadership, but I'm being
vulnerable with someone that haszero agency or authority. Like,
what is he gonna Bert does nothave the ability to tell me,
Alex, you need to, like, buck upand stop blaming everyone else
and start owning something. He'snot going to be able to tell me
that, right? Because even if hedid tell me that, I'm not going
to receive it well.
Then also, it's like, what is hegoing to do with this

(30:49):
information I'm giving him?That's a great example of
someone that is, you're beinghigh vulnerability, but they
don't have any agency. And sowhat we need to do, I think, is
create relationships that are weneed to have a certain subset of
relationships that are probablynot tied to our work, that are
high vulnerability, high agency.And so to go back to the example

(31:12):
we used earlier, if that's notyour spouse, mean, action item
number one, would say, if youare married is you are not doing
your spouse any favors byprotecting them from reality is
what I would say. Like, by yousaying, oh, I can't share with
them frustrations or annoyancesor fears related to the business
because I don't wanna get themall worried or freaked out.

(31:32):
It's like maybe an okay shortterm strategy. I think, like,
ultimately an awful lifestrategy.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
Can you share a time when you brought something to
your inner circle and kind ofhow that played out?

Speaker 1 (31:45):
I mean, we should bring Aspen in here for this
conversation, I I would say.Yeah. Yes, I can think of a
couple times that really standout in particular. We can go
back to the one that I alreadyused, right? Like that feeling
of dread, right?
That I was having related towork, And just feeling off about

(32:08):
that, right? It was clearly afunk. And I even kind of knew, I
think this is gonna go away atsome point, but I don't
necessarily know what the wayout of it is. And it feels very
abnormal for me. Shared it withAspen.
That's where I first shared it.And this is what I would tell
people is a lot of times, Iactually haven't really
recognized this until you askedthis question, Ben. A lot of

(32:29):
times I think the owning it andsharing it are not like step
one, own. Step two, share. It'slike rather it's typically like
Aspen and I are on a long walk.
It's almost always where theseconversations occur. We're on a
long walk and like we're justtalking to each other about
what's going on in our world andquestions that we've got and
things like that. And it's inthe process of being on a long

(32:51):
walk and talking that I end upowning something or naming
something that I just didn'teven realize was going on. And
then and then she'll call andshe'll be like, that sounds like
something like that. Maybe weshould, like, talk more about
that.
It's like, yeah. Maybe weshould. That would be a good
idea. Right? And so in thatcase, it was like, I I think
that maybe over the period of acouple of long walks that we

(33:13):
had, it was like I became awarethat it was a thing.
Out of that, I spent one youknow, it was my jolt morning,
like, really strong morningpraying about it, thinking about
it. And then we talked moreabout it and shared about it.
And then in processing withAspen, like, kind of had, like,
hey. A lot of times out of myconversations with Aspen, one of
the kinda, like, action itemsthat I leave with that I put for

(33:35):
myself is, like, I wanna talk toa couple other, like, really
close friends or mentors aboutthis. Right?
Like, I wanna now share the my vone conversation, god bless her,
is often Aspen where it's like,you're you're gonna get every
single idea, and I'm gonnareserve the right to take back
anything I say because it might,like, might not hit. Right? But
but it's verbal processing. Andthen, like, out of that, I can

(33:58):
then go to a mentor, and and I'mnot I'm no longer verbal
processing with the mentoroftentimes. I'm like, hey.
I've I've figured out what itis. I I know what it is, and
this is what I'm reallystruggling with it. And I either
just need to share it or I needyour wisdom on what to do with
it or or your perspective on howto handle it or on any blind
spots. So does that answer yourquestion?

Speaker 2 (34:19):
Yeah. And, I mean, that just really drives home the
idea of having like, theserelationships take work, and
they don't just happenovernight. And so you're not
just gonna be able to I mean,God might put those people in
your lives, you know, in aseason like this, but, like,
more than likely, you're notjust gonna be able to jump into
this type of relationship. Like,that's something you're already
taking the intentional time withAspen in this context to to get

(34:43):
to know her and to go on walksconsistently and be vulnerable
and share your unfilteredthoughts. And then it's in that
context that you're able to thenmove forward with with some of
those things.
So, I mean, yeah, that just it'slike, if you don't have those
relationships ahead of time,it's gonna be a lot more
difficult to do that.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
That, I mean, what you just hit on there is why we
literally tell our coachingcustomers whenever they start
working with a one on one coachis like, single calls that you
do with your coach are going tobe good, right? And my
expectation is that a singlecall that you have with one of
our one on one coaches willalways be good and valuable. And

(35:24):
the reason why that is, is likewe train our coaches and number
one, they're incrediblyeffective leaders in their own
right. And then we train them ona process for like, here's how
we note or take a ninety minutecall and make it outrageously
valuable for a business owner orbusiness leader. So number one,
what I always say is like singlecalls are gonna be good.
The context of multiple callsover time is going to be great.

(35:46):
It's going to be outstanding.Because it's like you have those
people then, in this case, it'sa coach where it's like not only
are they hearing your problemthat you're focusing on with
regard to your business in inthe season that you're in, but
our coaches are really good atpicking up on tendencies and
trajectories and also principlesand growth that we often, like,

(36:08):
ignore from the past. Andthey'll be able to coach not
just to where the moment of timethat you find yourself in right
now as a leader, rather they'reable to coach towards the
narrative and trajectory thatyou're on in your business and
leadership growth journey, whichthat's where it's like you start
to see trends and trajectorieswhere you're like, oh my gosh. I

(36:29):
always do that.
And that's the thing where I'mshooting myself and our company
in the foot. And if I could fixthat, like, that's like the
linchpin thing that everythingwill turn on. But you can't you
can't you cannot get that in asingle call. You know?

Speaker 2 (36:41):
Yeah. Yep. Alright. So you're in a funk. You've
you've owned it.
You've talked about it. What'sthe next step?

Speaker 1 (36:49):
Yeah. Own it. Talk about it. And I love the
language here. Jolt your way outof it.
Right? And I would, like,encourage you to think about it
that way. Like, jolt. Right? Thetendency can be own it, talk
about it, mope your way out ofit.
It's like, no. Like, we don'tneed the language of mope. Like,
we need language of jolt. Right?Like, if if you were in a a deep

(37:13):
valley, right, we often, on thispodcast talk about the value of
daily small minute actions tomove you towards a desired
destination.
What I'm saying right now is notthat. Right? If you are in a
temporal state of depression andhopelessness, massive action,
Something new, somethingdifferent, something fresh to

(37:34):
reset the system. Theconsistency will come, but, man,
it was so powerful when Irealized, like, no. There are
times where if you'relegitimately in a funk, you have
to do massively, extravagantly,hugely different things to start
getting new results.
And so that's why we use thelanguage of jolt.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
Can you name a significant time that you jolted
your way out of a funk?

Speaker 1 (37:57):
Yeah, I mean, do one every year, right? It actually
became a yearly rhythm for me,but it started as a jolt. And I
don't know that I've ever sharedthis before, but there was a
time, this was before I startedthe business where I was on
Christmas break with my family.I was down in Houston and I was
I was working at for anorganization at a job at this

(38:17):
time. And I was in a funk.
Right? Like, I I didn't wannaleave Houston. I didn't wanna
leave home. I I this isextremely odd for me. It was
like January 30 or it wasDecember 30 or something like
that.
And I was not looking forward toJanuary 1 as, like, a time for
setting, like and, Ben, I mean,you and I are close friends.
Like, that if I'm ever notlooking forward to January 1,

(38:39):
that's, like, huge red flag.Right? Like, massive issue.
Yeah.
Exactly. And so I you know, andthis is why as a believer, I
would say it's really good toinvite God into these things
and, like, prayerfully considerwhat a jolt would be. I I would
not have used that language atthe time, but I I would say I
knew something was off. I I knewthat I was in a little bit of a

(39:00):
funk. This is like, what, sevenyears ago now.
And I was on a run-in Houston.It was my last run-in Houston
before I think I had a flightout back to Nashville that night
or the next day. And it was onthat run that I was kinda like
praying and just thinking andreflecting and literally just
kinda got this holy spirit, likegut punch that was like five

(39:23):
miles at 5AM every day. And I Iwas like, that sounds awful.
Like, I'm not like, I don'treally wanna do that.
And then it was just like, butwhat if you did? Like, what if
you did that as a means of,like, rattling your system,
having something to aim at? Andand I was like, five miles at
5AM every day in January is kindof what I was thinking and

(39:44):
praying about. And then it waslike, okay. But, like, God has
something to say about Sabbathtoo, so what if it's five miles
at 5AM every day in Januaryexcept Sunday?
And I just kind of committed.Literally on that run, I got
back and I saw my parents afterthe run and I said, I think I'm
gonna do this. And they werelike, that feels like a really
random idea that you just cameup with, but okay. And, like,

(40:08):
establish these rules. Like, itcan't be inside on a treadmill
unless there's thunder orlightning.
Right? Which there's neverthunder or lightning in January.
It's just always, like, sleetingand, like, really freaking cold.
Right? So it became known asfive at five.
And that first year I did it, Ican honestly say, I, this sounds
like a trite and cliche phrase,but, like, January changed my

(40:28):
life. Like, I can point tospecific things that occurred
that January. And so then I I'vedone it every year since then.
Gosh. I think I'm now on, like,year 11 or something like that.
It's crazy. Like and what's neatnow is, like, it didn't start
this way. I did it for, I think,five years by myself and then
would just, like, share about iton social media after it was
done because I was too scared toshare about it before I was

(40:51):
done. But then like peoplestarted joining in. And now
every year we have a crew ofpeople.
There were like 20 somethingpeople that did five at five
this year. And what I think offive at five is is a jolt.
Right? Like it's something forme to aim at. It's something to
reset my mind.
And what's so cool is likethere's so many questions in
January. There's so many optionsand opportunities. One thing

(41:11):
that's not a question that'salready solved for is you're out
of bed. You have to be runningby 5AM. You are running by 5AM.
You're gonna be miserable, butthen you're gonna text a group
of people afterwards that youdid it. And, man, like, the
growth that has come from thatmonthly jolt that I would say,
yes, it's good in January, whereI often finding myself

(41:32):
reflecting on the fruit of fiveat five is in March, is in
April, is in May, where I'mlike, man, that just set the
tone for a year in a way that itwouldn't have been possible any
other.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
And I've done exactly one of those runs with you.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
Yeah. Which I mean, dude, you wanna talk about a a
litmus test of a good friend islike, alright. You know, you're
like if they text you, they'relike, hey. You wanna work out
tomorrow? And you're like, yeah.
How's 04:50AM? And if you're ifyou're I I've literally told
friends, like, if you're late, Iwill be gone because I have a
rule that I have to follow. Andthen they ask you, like, who
made up the rules? And you'relike, I made up the rules. It's

(42:08):
it's it's

Speaker 2 (42:09):
But you gotta stick to the principles.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
You know? Dude, exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:13):
I think what I love about that too is a jolt can be
fun, and it can be exciting, butit it also, like, costs you
something. Something. Right? Itcosts you sleep. It costs
intentionality.
It wasn't like this this crazything that had no risk and and
no work involved. What would yousay to someone who feels
paralyzed and doesn't know,like, how to take that step or

(42:34):
or what to do or what kind ofjolt would work for them?

Speaker 1 (42:37):
The principle that I often reflect on is that, like,
the company's called Path forGrowth. Let's remember this.
Growth and comfort nevercoexist. Right? So, like, if
you're asking to grow, which iswhat you're essentially doing,
if you say, I'm in a funk, Iwanna be out of a funk, you're
saying, I wanna grow my way outof this.
Right? And and you're kind ofpraying, like, can you help me
grow my way out of this? Wecould have just as easily named

(43:00):
the company Path for Discomfort.Right? It Yeah.
Not not nearly as good formarketing, and I think you would
really struggle in a businessdevelopment role, Ben, but but
we could have called it that.Right? And and because it's the
same thing. And so in some ways,a great way to define what your
jolt should be is what's thething that if I did it, it would

(43:21):
make me the most uncomfortable?And sometimes it's something
like five at five for me, whichis a physical challenge, right?
Because our growth is oftenembodied, right? Shows up in our
physical body, and if we changesomething physically, we often
change things emotionally,spiritually, psychologically,
all of that. But then there aresometimes where it's like me
doing a running challenge mightbe good, but it's not the thing

(43:43):
that would be uncomfortable. Thething that would be
uncomfortable is like, I need togo see a counselor or a pastor.
You know?
Or I need to go like, I need tohave a really challenging
conversation with Aspen. Right?I need to carve out, like, two
hours to journal my way throughthese big questions that are
just keeping me up at night orsomething like that. And so I

(44:04):
would say, I would never wannabe overly prescriptive, but I
would tell people like, thinkabout what would be most
uncomfortable. And if you'restruggling with it, what's
really important is that youdon't allow lack of clarity to
keep you from taking action.
And so if you're struggling withit, make the action be like,
maybe you're gonna share thispodcast with someone or just

(44:24):
share the concept with someonethat you trust and be like, I
need to figure out a jolt. Canyou help me figure out the jolt
that I'm going to do? Right? Butwe always talk about New Year's
resolutions. It's like we talkabout them in a very negative
light, but what they shouldreally mean is you have a sense
of resolve, right?
And change in growth, I've seenthis over and over again, partly

(44:45):
because of the business thatwe're in. Change in growth
always starts with a line in thesand moment, where a person
collaborates and cooperates withGod to say, no more. We're doing
different things to getdifferent results. And
oftentimes, the greater thefunk, the greater the jolt
you're gonna need to getinitially, like, out of it a

(45:05):
little bit so that you can startto then establish new habits,
routines, and rhythms.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
So do jolts have to be extreme? Because it sounds
like you're you know, theexamples you've given have been
anywhere from run five miles aday every morning in January
January to, like, journal for anhour. So how can someone gauge
like, do they have to beextreme? Which I I feel like the
answer is no. And then, like,how can someone gauge how

(45:32):
extreme their jolt needs to befor a particular season?

Speaker 1 (45:36):
Yeah. I would say it should be on the edge of extreme
for you. Right? So aninteresting way to look at this
is we have people do five atfive now. And there are some
people that sign up for five atfive that I'm like, dude, you
need to be you need to do one atone.
Like like and and that thatthat's not at all. I mean, 1AM

(45:57):
would be no joke either. Right?But it's like it's like you just
went from a a zero to a twenty,like, overnight. Right?
And so I think that's the thingthat I would say is, like, the
thing for me that's challengingand difficult about five at five
is not five miles every day.Right? It's 5AM every single day

(46:18):
and being out running in thecold every single day. And so I
say that to say, like, you know,if one is not extreme at all, 10
is extreme, five at five for mefeels like a six. And so but it
does flirt with, like, the everysingle day nature of it flirts
with.
For me, those times where it'slike I journal or go meet with a

(46:38):
counselor or something likethat, going and meeting with a
counselor whenever things aremoving so fast paced and I'm
hyper focused on efficiency andI feel like I don't have time,
that can actually feel extreme.That can sometimes feel like a
seven or an eight, and this iswhere it takes wisdom and I
think community really helps tosay, what is the thing that's

(46:59):
actually gonna be in my bestinterest here that I don't want
to do? And that is wild. Spendsome time with that question.
And that's really what we'retalking about with the Joel.
What is the thing that isclearly in my best interest, but
I don't wanna do it? Becausethat question is so helpful
because it names the internalcontradiction. You're telling me

(47:20):
you don't want to do the thingthat you know is in your best
interest. That is crazy talk,but the minute you label that,
you're like, okay, I need to doit. And that's what I often see
people, if they take time to bethoughtful about it, and this is
why conversation can be reallyhelpful because self induced
thoughtfulness is reallydifficult.
If they take time to talk aboutit, be thoughtful about it, they

(47:42):
know what they need to do. Like,it's very clear what they need
to do. And now it's just likesome accountability around it, I
think.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
Is jolting the best method for healthy growth?

Speaker 1 (47:54):
Jolting as a lifestyle is not. And I think we
see that play out pretty,especially in the fitness space.
Right? There's actually, I knowfor a fact, because we did an
interview, you and I weretalking about this, we did an
interview with Melissa Urbanyears ago now. She was the
founder of Whole30, right, whichWhole30 is this diet plan that

(48:15):
it's not a diet plan.
Actually, she literally saidthis is not what it is. It's a
reset plan. You do like, you cutout all inflammatory foods for
thirty days. And she's like verydeliberate about the thirty
days. And she says like, thepoint is not that this is gonna
be your lifestyle movingforward.
The point is we are going toreset your mindset, behaviors,

(48:38):
and thinking about food forthirty days so that when you get
on the backside of that thirtydays, you have a clear view of
what's actually good for you.And you can establish habits,
rhythms and routines. And so,wow, what a great example of a
jolt, right? That it's not, youknow, we all know that person or
have been that person that it'slike, I'm gonna do whole 30 for
thirty days, then I'm gonna doketo for thirty days, then I'm

(49:00):
gonna do carnivore for thirtydays. And it's like, we
basically just jolt jump.
I've never used that phrasebefore, but it's like, I just
jump from jolt to jolt andthere's no sense of consistency
ever. Like my life is a seriesof jolts with intermediate
periods of funk in between.That's not what we're talking
about. Like in so many ways,like if I'm looking for physical

(49:22):
growth, I need a physical joltthat results in continuous
habits moving forward that are anew lifestyle moving forward.
Not, I'm gonna do this physicaljolt, then after a while, I'll
stop doing that.
I'll go into a period of funk.And then because I'm in a funk,
I'll choose a new jolt to do.That actually contradicts what

(49:43):
what we're trying to accomplishhere.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
Yeah. You wrote healthy growth is not what you
could do. It's about what youwould do. Share more about that.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
Yeah. We should share the original post on this in the
in the show notes of the episodetoo. But, yeah, I mean,
everyone, whenever they'retalking about growth, they they
ask like, oh, man. What could Ido this year? Like, what what
like, what could I do over thecourse of the next quarter?
And, like, what could I do if Itook my health really, really
seriously? And I I obviouslylike the sense of optimism and

(50:13):
faith that's associated with theidea of what could you do. But
ultimately, if we're talking,like, pragmatic, like, actually
what makes people grow, thequestion I wanna ask you as a
coach is like, what would youdo? I get that. Yeah, man.
If I could wake up every morningat 4AM, read two chapters of a
book, drink my greens, coldplunge, run five miles, and then

(50:34):
start work before anyone's evenout of bed. Like, if I could do
that, my life would be money.Yes. I agree with you. If you
could do that, your life wouldbe money.
Right? But would you do that?And maybe the answer is yes.
Maybe you're like, yes. I woulddo that every single day.
And I know certain people thatwould do that every single day.
The thing that I often see islike, especially once we're past

(50:58):
the jolt stage, we way overprioritize extravagancy and we
way under prioritizeconsistency. And it's like, I'd
rather you do the rightmanageable thing consistently
than the extravagant cool thingoccasionally. Because we're in
We're talking a lot right nowwithin the Pathway Road

(51:20):
community about long gameleadership. We are playing the
long game, and the long game Ifyou talk to leaders that play
the long game in their businessand in their life, it's not
these series of extravagancejolts that got them to where
they are today.
It's the never ending consistentdeposits that made them into a

(51:41):
person of character andconviction that people actually
wanna follow. And so don'tunderprioritize consistency. And
on the backside of your jolt,ask yourself the question, okay,
what does healthy growth looklike moving forward now? I'm no
longer committing to five milesat 5AM every day except Sunday,

(52:01):
but what am I committing to nowthat would sustain the momentum
that I currently have?

Speaker 2 (52:08):
It kinda I mean, you you run. You run marathons. So
it the saying, you know, it's amarathon, not a sprint, I feel
like just rings so true. It'slike once the race has started,
you've gotten that jolt ofadrenaline, the excitement
starts to wear off. Like, what'sthe consistent pace you're gonna
continue to run after thatinitial start?
Cause it's a long road. If youjust take all your energy and

(52:29):
use it all up at the beginning,it's gonna be hard to stay
consistent. What does healthygrowth look like for you in this
season?

Speaker 1 (52:36):
Oh, well, Ben, you know this, because you live here
in Phoenix and we get to seeeach other in person a lot right
now, which is such a gift. Butlike, one of the great
challenges for me, which I hopeto record a podcast eventually
on what I'm learning right nowin this, is like, one of the
great challenges is what is theseason that we're actually in?
And it's because Lily, our firstdaughter, she's 10 old now, like

(53:00):
we now have a diagnosis, praiseGod, that happened in the last
two weeks. But she has thisextremely rare genetic condition
that I would not put her in thecategory of a special needs
child, I would just put her inthe category of a high needs
child. Like our protocols forsleep and eating and interaction
and attention with a 10 old babyare going to be very, very

(53:24):
different.
Honestly, for most of her life,it looks as though, barring God
does something different, whichhe absolutely can do, are going
to be very different than what anormal 10 old would need from
their parents. And so in so manyways, I feel like the season
that we are in right now couldchange tomorrow, and it's a
season of temporary uncertaintyis what I would And so for me

(53:47):
right now, it's interesting, assomeone that really likes to
build structure and consistency,I think part of healthy growth
right now is saying, what is thebase level consistency that is
necessary for me to show up as aresponsible dad, husband, leader
that's stewarding the blessingsthat I've been given well. And

(54:11):
so for me, it's like, man, I'mnot gonna drink alcohol in this
season. Praise God, I wasalready not doing that, but that
would not be helpful in thisseason, right? That could become
way too easy of a crutch, right?
Bible reading has to be aneveryday thing. Prayer has to be
an everyday thing. Intentionalconversation with Aspen has to
be an everyday thing. Those areall like the baseline, but then

(54:32):
like consistent wake up timeright now, like there's nights
where we're getting three hoursof sleep right now. And it's
like, am I it would be foolishof me to be like, but I gotta
hit 5AM.
It's like, dude, you're anidiot, right? Like, go back to
And so I'm actually learning alot right now, and God is
actually teaching Aspen and Iboth a lot right now of how do

(54:52):
you practice healthy growth in aseason of uncertainty that is
conducive to unhealth? We're inearly innings right now, but
thus far, we're managing, right?That's, I think, mainly due to
God and great community, butwe're moving through it. Nothing
has collapsed yet, and ourmarriage hasn't taken a toll,

(55:15):
and we're not annoyed by ourdaughter.
We still love our daughter,which is not a given whenever
she's waking you up every singlehour and a half. Yeah, so that's
my most honest answer to thatquestion.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
Thanks for sharing that. Alright. So we've we've
walked through the four steps.Own it. Talk about it.
Jolt your way out of it. Andthen the final one was practice
healthy growth. So it soundslike we'll never be in a funk
again and that, you know, life'slife's just hunky dory. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
I I know I know for a fact you're joking when you say
that. Yeah. So what I see herenow, and and I think this is how
we should close, Ben, is, like,get that idea out of your head
because that is a thoughtprocess that comes in the jolt.
When you're doing a jolt and,like, dude, if you're at the end
of five at five, you're on,like, the last day of five at
five, you will think toyourself, I am never gonna

(56:06):
experience hopelessness againfor the rest of my life. Like,
this is it's done.
Right? And that's what 25 yearold Alex thought. Right? Like,
oh my gosh. I killed anynegative emotion that will ever
show up in my life ever again.
I solved it. And when I had thatnaive thought, that immature
thought, it crushed me wheneverI found myself in a funk again,
like, six months later orwhatever it was. Mhmm. What I

(56:27):
would say is anticipate you'llhit it again. You don't know
when.
You certainly don't want it, butthat doesn't mean it won't
happen. And then in the processof anticipating it, what do
really mature, wise, effectiveleaders do? Three words, focus
on the rate of recovery, right?The question is not, will you
get into a funk? The questionis, do you have a strategy for

(56:49):
getting out of it?
And are you going to applyyourself to that strategy? And
what we're really sharing onthis episode is the strategy,
right? Own it, share it, joltyour way out of it and then
practice healthy growth.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
Yeah. Well, is great.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
Yeah. Appreciate you, man. Thanks for the time. Well,
there you have it. Thanks somuch for joining us for this
episode.
If you want any of theinformation or resources that we
mentioned, that's all in theshow notes. Hey, before you go,
could I ask you for one quickfavor? Could you subscribe,
rate, and review this podcastepisode? Your feedback is what

(57:23):
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front. Are you a leader thatwants to grow your business in a

(57:46):
healthy way, serve peopleexceptionally well, and glorify
God in the process? Go topathforgrowth.com to get more
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schedule a call with our team.Hey, thank you so much to the
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PodCircle, and the remarkableleaders that are actively

(58:07):
engaged in the Path for Growthcommunity.
Y'all are the people that makethis podcast possible. Y'all
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Remember, my strength is not forme. Your strength is not for
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