March 4, 2025 • 36 mins
If you want to scale your business, you’ll need to be intentional about both delegation and personal growth. In this episode, Alex continues his conversation with Bryan and Shannon Miles about healthy business ownership. Bryan and Shannon leverage their own experience as multi-time, successful business owners to share practical advice and examples for our listeners. They also explain how you can be one of the first to get involved with their new nonprofit for leaders, O’nr. You won’t want to miss this one!
Struggling to make success in your business repeatable? Path for Growth created a free workbook and video course to help you operationalize—so you can build consistency, reduce stress, and create space for growth. Download it now at pathforgrowth.com/free-downloads.
Episode Recap:
- Today we’re continuing our conversation on business ownership with Bryan and Shannon Miles (2:22)
- What was the hardest thing for you to delegate, and how did you approach that? (4:55)
- How do you know when to speak up when delegating? (14:28)
- What is a whitewater season, and how do you navigate them?? (17:12)
- Why is the personal growth of leaders so important to you? (24:32)
- What personal growth rhythms are most important to you? (27:31)
- Where to learn more from Bryan and Shannon (31:24)
- What would you say to a business owner who’s feeling discouraged? (33:19)
Make your business feel less chaotic and more predictable. Get the free workbook and video course from Path for Growth to start building the clarity and structure you need for healthy growth. Download it today at pathforgrowth.com/free-downloads.
Resources:
Follow the podcast on Apple or Spotify
Sign Up for Our Weekly Growth Guide
Try Path for Growth 1on1 Coaching Free for 14 Days
Download the Free Reading Guide
Join us for our 2025 Experience – Long Game Leadership
“Predictable Success” by Les McKeown
Connect with our Founder Alex Judd on LinkedIn and Instagram
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bryan Miles (00:00):
That's one thing that we're very much emphasizing
with owner is that the whole youhas to show up and that it's all
gotta work together. You can'tbe wildly successful in business
and wreck your life or have a arelationship with your kiddos or
your wife. Like, that doesn'tequal success. And I think that
that's some of the issue with,like, this rock star off newer
(00:21):
thing that's out there. It'sit's like, look at my private
jet and my yacht.
And, you know, I have ahelicopter that takes me from my
private jet to my yacht. Andit's like, no, that's not
everybody's definition ofsuccess. That is one person's
definition of success. Successfor you might be that you have a
happy family and you have asuccessful business or you have
(00:42):
the ability to take care of youraging parents because you have
the time and the money and youhave a successful business.
Right?
So for me, personal success mustcome with, you know,
professional success and andvice versa. Like, there there
are two things that must workinterchangeably.
Alex Judd (01:00):
Well, hey there. I'm Alex Judd, the founder of Path
for Growth, and this is the Pathfor Growth podcast. As a
business, we exist to helpimpact driven leaders like you
step into who they were createdto be so that others benefit and
God is glorified. Let's go.Well, welcome back.
This is part two of ourconversation with Brian and
Shannon Miles. And if youhaven't listened to part one, I
(01:22):
wanna make sure you do that. Butwe'll just do a brief rundown of
their bio before we get intowhat we're gonna talk about with
part two. They cofounded BELAY,a virtual staffing company, in
2010. They exited majorityownership of that company in
2021, but are still minoritystakeholders.
BELAY continues to grow, thrive,and make an impact around the
country. Since then, they've nowlaunched a brewing company
(01:43):
called Nofo Brewing that hasmultiple locations. They're also
part owners of a soccer club inThe UK because, of course, they
are. And they're deeply investedin the growth of companies
around the country and realestate through their holding
company, Miles AG. Beyond that,Brian and Shannon are smack dab
right now in the launch of a newnonprofit that is entirely
(02:05):
dedicated to serving businessowners.
It's called Oner. That's oapostrophe n r. We're gonna talk
about that some in the episodetoday, and then I'm gonna
highlight how you can followalong with Oner at the end of
this episode along with doublingdown on the special announcement
that we have regarding ourinvolvement with Brian and
Shannon moving forward. Today'sepisode, we're diving into two
(02:25):
topics that are especiallyrelevant for business owners.
We're gonna talk about scaling abusiness because that's an area
where it can be so easy tounnecessarily get bruised and
battered, and it's somethingthat Brian and Shannon just have
a wealth of experience in.
And then we're gonna talk aboutpersonal growth in the life of a
business owner. This issomething that they care deeply
about, and I think theirperspective is really, really
(02:47):
gonna add value to you. So withthat, let's jump into the
content. Make sure you stay onfor the end because we're gonna
double down on how you can getinvolved with owner and the
special announcement that Ireally wanna share with you.
Here's part two of myconversation with Brian and
Sheena Myers.
Okay. Let's shift. And this kindof goes from vision and growth
(03:10):
and expansion really well tosomething very practical for
business owners, which isdelegation. And I'd like to
start with a very specificquestion. In y'all's journey,
the multiple businesses you'veowned, what has been the hardest
thing for y'all individually todelegate?
And I think I'm asking thatquestion both from an emotional
standpoint because it was, like,hard to let go of emotionally.
(03:31):
And then what was just reallyhard practically? Like, it's
really hard to hand off thisspecific type of task or
responsibility. I'd love to hearboth of y'all's thoughts on
that.
Bryan Miles (03:40):
For for me, it was, handing off sales. I love sales.
I'm a great salesperson. And itwas really hard for me to hand
that off. But it it was alsonecessary because at that time,
I realized this was becoming alower payoff activity in our
business, and I needed to be andwe needed to be elevated in our,
you know, our duties to grow thebusiness at a different level.
(04:02):
And it it just kinda got to aplace where sales became a lower
payoff activity for mepersonally. But it was I love
sales. I I still love sales. Ijust I love salespeople because
all the great salespeople do isthey just help people. You know?
And I just I loved it.
Alex Judd (04:17):
Can we zoom in on that one? And then I'd love to
jump into yours, Shannon. Okay.You're you love sales. You're
great at sales.
You've come to the realizationthat you need to delegate it. Is
the thing that key like, holdsyou back or makes it difficult
that it's like, I don't know howto train people on this. Or is
it that, like, I love this and Iwanna hold on to this and it's
(04:39):
hard to let go.
Bryan Miles (04:40):
I can train it all day long. I mean, I led sales
teams. I can train salespeople.I just enjoyed it. But see,
that's that's it too.
I also I enjoyed the winconnected to it, and I needed to
delegate that joy as well as theactivity. And and it it because,
like, I I kinda hate thiscliched thing, but it's like,
(05:01):
you need to only do what onlyyou can do. Well, at that point
in our business, there were onlya handful of things that Shannon
and I needed to be doing thatwould really grow and excel the
business, and we needed to handoff everything rest. And that's
that's the difference, honestly,between what we see in our in
our kind of our, archetypes ofof business owners is that's the
(05:22):
difference when someone goesfrom being an entrepreneur to a
CEO. Mhmm.
As they they go, oh, I get it. II am now going to empower people
to take on my duties so that Ican really focus on the things
that only I can do. And that'swhen they really become the CEO
of their business. It's not thefirst day when they put that on
their on their business garden.It's when they start to hand off
things that they have been doingin a meaningful way that will
(05:45):
impact and scale the business.
Alex Judd (05:46):
What did the handoff timeline of sales look like?
Like, how long did it take you?And is there eighteen oh,
eighteen months. And what didyou what did you learn in that
time of eighteen months that younow apply to the way you
delegate things or that youwould share with others?
Bryan Miles (06:03):
It's easy to delegate now for me. I hand off
so many crazy things to todelegate. I'd and now I if I
choose to hang on to somethingbecause I just really like it
and I wanna do that, but it'snot because it's tied to a
business. It's more on thepersonal side. You know, I love
designing, homes and and, like,the things we do, and I like to
take on the ownership of that.
(06:24):
It's because I love it. Andthat's not necessarily a
business centric thing. So, inbusiness, I'm happy to hand off
just about everything. I mean,there's a handful of things that
I know I need to pay attentionto because I'm the leader, and I
have to see it this way. And Ihave to look at that thing
because you should expect me totake ownership of those tasks.
Shannon Miles (06:43):
Well, I think you delegated the the blocking and
tackling of sales after thateighteen month period. And you
you trained the sales team onhow to manage their funnel and
how to structure a sales calland what Socratic selling looked
like and
Bryan Miles (07:00):
Comp plans.
Shannon Miles (07:01):
Email campaigns and comp yeah. Exactly. All that
stuff. But then your sales focusjust evolved into networking.
And you were doing that allalong the way, but it became all
the more of your focus, which issales too.
That's true. You know? Not thatnetworking relationships are
transactional, but you'reinvesting in future sales
(07:22):
funnels and affiliates andthings like that. So I think it
just changed for you from beingmore blocking and tackling to a
higher level view of what saleslook like in our organization.
Bryan Miles (07:34):
Mhmm.
Alex Judd (07:35):
So in some ways, like, re repurpose. Like, you
still had an in some ways, anoutlet to do the things you
loved maybe. It just it foundits way in service of the
organization in a differentavenue. Does that feel right,
Brian?
Bryan Miles (07:47):
Yeah. It does. I think, you know, something else
I just thought of, a lot ofleaders, they don't delegate
because they want they wannahang on to that thing, like
booking their travel orsomething kind of simple. It's
because in their life,otherwise, as a business owner,
they don't solve a problem thatcan be done in fifteen minutes.
Their their problems are thirtydays to six months to kind of
(08:09):
resolve, so they never get thatsense of completion.
So that's why they hang on tothese lower payoff activities is
because they get a sense ofcompletion. They get a dopamine
hit that they otherwise don'tget. And that's we've seen that
happen a ton with you know,like, they're like, oh, I like
to book my travel or I like tomow my grass or I like to and
that's great. But the reason whyyou're doing that is because you
(08:29):
get a sense of completion thatas a business owner, you don't
otherwise get because the thingsyou're solving are so far. You
know, there's such a a long tailto to kind of bring them to
resolution.
Alex Judd (08:40):
It's one of the reasons, again, why I'm so
excited about what y'all arebuilding. And, spoiler alert,
y'all are joining us in Austinfor Long Game Leadership. Our
experience coming up at theOctober, that's gonna be blast
too. Because one of the thingswe're gonna talk about is, like,
in those things that do takeminimum ninety days to
accomplish and maximum threeyears to accomplish, how are you
staying encouraged and faithfulwhenever you're like, am I
(09:03):
applying my time, energy, effortto something that's actually
gonna pay off? You need outsideencouragement.
It's not even a want or apreference thing. It's like you
have to have it. And that's whythat community piece of what
y'all are building is so, socrucial. Shannon, how about you?
Practically, emotionally, whatwas the hardest thing to
delegate?
Shannon Miles (09:21):
Leadership.
Alex Judd (09:22):
Leadership. And and Yeah. What when you say
leadership, what did that looklike practically?
Shannon Miles (09:26):
Well, the way we built BELAY is entirely
different than the way we builtNOFO. From day one, excuse me,
we knew that we did not wanna bein the day to day of NOFO, but
we were directly funding it andinvesting it. So we worked side
by side with our CEO to launchthe company, to get all the
(09:48):
systems in place, to hire allthe right people. And then as
the years progressed, wedeveloped a leadership team. And
we, Brian and developed aleadership team.
And we, Brian and I, have neverbeen as deep into that business
as we were with BELAY, whichwhich means we never have led
side by side with the CEO ofNoFo like we all grew up as
(10:10):
leaders together at BELAY. Andso there was this leading, you
know, with with the person thatwould eventually replace you,
that you worked day in and dayout with. You were in the
meetings together. You weremaking the decisions together.
So it was a more natural handoffwhen it was time to replace
ourselves in BELAY.
But with NOFO, it has beendelegated leadership from day
(10:33):
one intentionally. But for me,that's the thing that I love the
most about business ownership. Ifreaking love leading. I love
seeing people develop. I loveseeing them grow.
I love seeing them be able toaccomplish things that would
have seemed impossible and takeon challenges that, you know,
they're using borrowedconfidence to to achieve. Like,
(10:54):
I love that part of it. And sothat has been, in this season of
my life, the most difficultthing to to delegate and let go
of. And it's been sort of abalancing act of how much do I
dive into leadership of NOFO,and how much do I lead through
the CEO who has done a great jobbut is not me. You know?
Alex Judd (11:14):
Mhmm. Sure.
Shannon Miles (11:15):
So that's on the professional front, that's been
the most difficult.
Alex Judd (11:18):
Yeah. What are some of the things that you've
learned or recognized that gavethat have given you the ability
to do that with increasedeffectiveness over time?
Shannon Miles (11:28):
Having really real and raw conversations with
with Joe and just, you know,deciding which battles to
pursue, and just, you know,letting him lead in a way that's
true to him, but also saying,you know, I observe this
situation and I have a coachingopportunity for you, And I would
(11:48):
like to see you consider, youknow, if this is something that
you can address with this teammember or whatever. And so it's
a real like I said, it's areally delicate balance of,
like, saying something andinterjecting my thoughts and
opinions as the owner and assomebody who is passionate about
leadership and personaldevelopment, balanced with
(12:10):
respecting him as a leader andhonoring the approach that he
has taken. And so we always workthrough it. Like I can't ever
think of a situation where it'sbeen like, Do this and, you
know, come report back to me onhow it's worked. We just have
the conversation together.
And ultimately, I have to justtrust him as a leader and
(12:31):
support him and remove anyroadblocks that he has to lead
his team because, ultimately,he's he's at the helm, and he's
doing a great job.
Alex Judd (12:39):
Yeah. Is there anything y'all have learned in
terms of, like, a filter for,like, like, when do I speak up
and, like, voice my opinionversus when do I bite my tongue
and, like, not say anything?Anything y'all reflect on or
principles that y'all leverageas it relates to that?
Shannon Miles (12:56):
I have to sleep on it. Really?
Alex Judd (12:58):
I have
Shannon Miles (12:58):
to sleep. Seriously. Yeah.
Alex Judd (13:00):
I mean, that takes an insane amount of I mean, my
issue is that if I say I have tosleep on it, I just end up not
sleeping and I think about itall night. So, like yeah. Are
you saying you have to sleep onit to really make a wise
decision on what you should do?Is that what you're saying?
Yeah.
Shannon Miles (13:15):
Yeah. I mean, I view leadership coaching
opportunities as big things. AndI don't think that Anytime I've
knee jerk reacted something'sirritated me and I think it
needs to change and I've reactedquickly, I haven't liked the way
that I've handled it. And so ifI observe something and then I
(13:35):
sleep on it and I wake up thenext day and it's still there,
then I'm usually able to run itthrough a lens of, like,
thoughtfulness and compassionand perspective that I didn't
have the day before.
Bryan Miles (13:49):
Yeah. I'm the exact opposite. I think a good throat
punch is perfect. Well, I'm justa different leader then. I
really respect your approach.
I just I trust my gut a lot. Andand I might be wrong and have to
go back and apologize, but Ifeel like I have good instincts
in business. And when I seesomething, I'm not gonna wait
very long because we gotta saysomething. But I that's my
(14:13):
approach. It's not the approach.
And so I I and I see her dothat, and I respect it. I'm just
like, I can never do that.
Alex Judd (14:18):
Yeah. You know? Is there a way that you deliver
feedback so that you don't just,like, crush people? Like, is
there things that you focus onin terms of tone or in terms of
the way you phrase it, or is itexpectation setting? What does
that look like, Brian?
Shannon Miles (14:32):
Yeah. Honey, how do you handle that?
Bryan Miles (14:36):
I I I generally will go to I mean, if if I see
something happen in the moment,then I'll just address it with
that person. But if it's aleadership thing, I'm gonna go
to the leader and say, hey. It'syou gotta fix this, or there's
something off here. Something'saskew. I need you to look into
this.
Or we keep seeing this thing.Why is this continuing to
happen? This is a leadershipthing. And then also teaching
(14:59):
principles along the way of,like, hey. Some things are just
tensions to manage, and thenthere's some things in business
that are just problems to solve.
And this problem should remainsolved, and it's not. And I'm
getting irritated, and I wantyou to know that because it's
time for you to fix it. Sothere's there's things like that
that we're our approach isdifferent, but I think that
(15:19):
we're equally as effective.
Alex Judd (15:21):
Yeah. We probably balance each other out really
well. Let's go to scaling.That's the next topic I wanted
to hit on, after delegation. I'dlove to just set you up for an
illustration that you share withme many times, and and the
phrase that you often use iswhite water seasons.
So can you kind of give people apicture of what you're talking
about there and why it's soimportant for business owners to
(15:43):
understand?
Bryan Miles (15:43):
Yeah. There's a book out called Predictable
Success. And in that book,there's seven stages of a
business life cycle, if youwill. And one of the early on
ones is called Whitewater. Andwhat happens when a business
gets started and a businessowner gets underway, there's a
season of, like, yeah, it's kindof early struggle, but then they
find this place of fun.
(16:05):
And in that stage, things arekinda moving along, and they're,
you know, they're making money,and people are happy, and
customers are happy, and it'sjust a fun season. But then if
they wanna go to the next level,they have to go through the
stage called white water. Andoftentimes, a lot of business
owners will go, I'm not doingthat. I'm not going into white
water. I'm gonna stay in thatfund.
And they limit themselves. Andbut that's okay. Some that's
(16:27):
their that's their decision.They just stay in that kind of
that bump up against white waterand go, I'm not getting in it.
But to get into a place whereyou replicate your business and
to you scale it up, you have toget into white water and kind of
battle your way through it toget to an area in what he calls
in the book of predictablesuccess.
And then if you kinda move pastpredictable success on the other
(16:48):
end of the spectrum, it feelslike a like a dial, if you will.
You start to get into a placewhere you don't wanna be. So the
goal is to kinda bounce backinto whitewater to embrace
change, to to kinda go through atough season of growth in your
business. So it it's Whitewateris a very important part of your
business that exercises themuscle of change that's
necessary for you to continue togrow.
Alex Judd (17:10):
I I would love to know from both of you, like,
what has characterized seasonsof Whitewater for you? Like, is
it decisions? Is itconversations? Actual things
that occur that enter you intothose whitewater seasons?
Shannon Miles (17:24):
Scale. I mean, anytime you're trying to scale
something and, go, I don't know,hypothetically speaking, from
one location of a brewery tothree in one year, that was very
that was very white watery. Andit's funny because it's it's
kind of a double edged swordbecause that you know, those
(17:45):
kind of scalable opportunitiesand acquisitions and let's open
this new location, that's thekind of stuff that gets the team
excited. You know? They're like,let's freaking go.
Let's storm the the gates, andlet's do this. And then you
commit to these things and thenthe practicality of making them
successful with the resourcesthat you have in place can be
(18:06):
very tumultuous. And, you know,as you get into the, Okay, how
are we going to operate all ofthese with success and ensure
that everything is up to thequality and standards that we
had when we had one location,like, that can be a lot for a
leadership team to navigate. Andso, you know, just like with
(18:28):
whitewater rafting, right? Likeyou can't stay in the class
fours and fives forever.
That's right. You've got to, youknow, focus all of your energy
on getting through that seasonknowing that once you're through
those rapids, you're gonna findcalmer waters.
Bryan Miles (18:44):
Mhmm. And I
Shannon Miles (18:44):
think it's incumbent on leaders to
recognize that you need thoseseasons of rest after periods of
quick scaling and whitewater sothat your team can recover, so
that you can rest, so that youcan celebrate what you just went
through and catch your breath.
Alex Judd (18:59):
Is it is it fair to say it's kind of like saying,
hey. We're gonna opt in for aseason of what feels like chaos?
Shannon Miles (19:05):
Yeah. I think that's a really good way to put
it. Yeah. Like, going into iteyes wide open. You know,
anytime you scale, whether it's,you know, one to three locations
or even just adding on a newservice line in your business,
there's gonna be some level ofchaos in it because there's a
lot of unpredictability.
Like, you just there's noguarantees when you take a risk
(19:25):
of how it's gonna turn out. Youcan mitigate risk. You can do
your analysis, like Brian saidearlier, and go into it fully
educated. But we can't controlall the variables that go into
business ownership, right?That's obvious.
And so you're gonna have chaos.And so just expecting that and
setting the team up for, youknow, acknowledgment of that and
(19:48):
making sure that they've got theenergy to to go into that season
of chaos is really important asleaders.
Bryan Miles (19:55):
Yeah. I think I think that that white water can
also look like what we call thechasms when we're talking about
it from an owner standpoint is,you know, these chasms happen
around 1,000,000 in revenue,5,000,000 in revenue,
10,000,000, 20 million, and50,000,000. And for you to go
from one to five, oftentimes,the things that got you to to
(20:16):
one will not be the things thatget you to five. And the things
that got you to five will not bethe things that get you to
10,000,000. And so you have togo through these seasons of
white water where you almosthave to break everything and and
cast net new vision and, like,to go to the next level.
We've seen it in, in ourbusinesses, but we've also seen
it in plenty of other businessesas well. It it creates this
(20:38):
natural white water that youhave to navigate.
Alex Judd (20:42):
Are there ever reasons where you know, you're
like, man, the way that wecontinue to move this thing
forward is enter the whitewater, embrace the chaos for a
season. Are there ever reasonswhere you would say it might be
wise to hold off and, like, tonot opt in just whenever you can
or whenever you start to see it?Anything stand out there to
(21:04):
y'all?
Shannon Miles (21:04):
I think people do that. We don't do that well.
Alex Judd (21:07):
Yeah. Is that right?
Shannon Miles (21:08):
Honestly. I think we're getting better at it, you
know, but we're just both veryambitious people, and we've been
able to, you know, bite off morethan we can chew and and figure
it out as we go. But, you know,back to what we talked about
earlier with our three yearfocus to freedom, I think we're
learning how to do that and say,okay. Yeah. This is
(21:29):
theoretically something that wecould pursue or an opportunity
that's been presented, and wecould do this.
But I don't think we should optinto that chaos right now. Like,
it's not going to get us anycloser to our focus to freedom.
And I think that's where havingvision for your overall life
matters. And that way, you canrun your business decisions
(21:50):
through that filter as well.
Alex Judd (21:52):
Yeah. Brian, it was a couple of phone calls ago that
we had that I I remember I waswrestling through a decision. It
was a people decision that youkind of shared the white water
illustration with me. You werelike, you know, what you're
viewing is this decision ofwhether or not you wanna enter
the white water. And I sharedwith you, hey.
Lily is gonna be born. I thinkit was, like, within a month is
(22:14):
where we were at. And I rememberyou sharing with me, like, that
might be a good reason to wait.Like you might wanna and I think
that was really good advice. AndAspen and I ended up talking
about it and Aspen, I reallyvalued her perspective too,
because she said, I think itwould be more stressful for you
and by extension us for you tosit on this till after.
(22:37):
Yeah. I think it would be betterfor us to just say like, trust
God, do the right thing and letthe chips fall where they may.
Yeah. And but a little bit ofthe freedom of feeling like,
man, we don't have to do thisright now. It's a decision was
so, so, so helpful.
So I was really grateful forthat advice. Okay. Well, let's
go to personal growth then. Iknow this is like well, we say
(23:00):
all the time, if you wanna putyour business in order, start by
putting yourself in order. Weare, like, deeply passionate
about personal growth forbusiness owners being its own
independent thing that they haveto focus on.
And I know that that's actuallya cornerstone of owner as well.
Like, y'all are really, reallyinvested in the personal health,
personal growth of businessowners. Why is it that this
(23:22):
particular area deemed such ahigh degree of importance for
the audience that you areseeking to serve with this new
organization?
Shannon Miles (23:29):
I think, for me, it goes to what you mentioned
earlier with, you know, there'sall these personalities online
and and these aspirationalbusiness owners that are flashy,
and you can have it all and, youknow, 10 x ing everything. And
it's when it leaves this itleaves this almost like a false
(23:51):
summit feel to me of whatsuccess looks like, when in
reality, you know, a lot ofthose people might be on their
third or fourth marriage andhave no relationship with their
children. And, you know, I can'tthink of anything worse than if
we would have gone through ourjourney with BELAY and at the
(24:11):
end of the day said, I can't bewith you anymore. We got you
know, like, all of the successwith business has crushed us,
and we can't we can't staytogether. Like, I can't think of
anything more devastating thanthat for me in my life.
So when I think about, you know,the opportunity to educate
business owners on theimportance of personal growth
(24:34):
and the importance of leadingyourself before you can lead
other people, doing the deepwork that business ownership
requires of you. I mean, nothinghas challenged my personal
development more than having tolead an organization where I'm
up there casting vision andleading from the stage if I
(24:56):
don't have my stuff together.You know, so nothing has
challenged me more than that.And I think business owners are
busy. You know, we have a lot onour plates, we have a lot that
we're responsible for, and itcan be really easy to just put
some of those important but noturgent tasks, so to speak, aside
and not put in the time to growpersonally because it feels like
(25:20):
I've got all these other reallyurgent, in my face things to do.
And we just want to educatebusiness owners to be like, No,
that is your most importantwork, is to is to work on
yourself and make sure thatyou're in a state of growth and
that you're doing the deep workthat is required of you to be
the kind of person that youwanna be, not just the kind of
(25:40):
business owner that you wannabe.
Alex Judd (25:43):
If we got rid of all the businesses tomorrow, right,
pray pray to God that doesn'thappen, but if we did that, are
there personal growth rhythmsthat y'all would want to
maintain independent of anybusiness ownership or anything
like that? But you would justsay, just for me to be a whole
and healthy person, these arethings that I want to
consistently and regularly do.What stands out for you all?
Bryan Miles (26:05):
The self care element, whether that's
journaling, reading, praying,meditating, working out,
investing in other peoplepersonally or, you know, through
mentoring, and then pursuingyour relationship with God. I
think that those are massivelyimportant things that are equal
in value to you growing inbusiness, not subject to or
(26:29):
smaller than. And that's onething that we're very much
emphasizing with owner is thatthe whole you has to show up and
that it's all gotta worktogether. You can't be wildly
successful in business and wreckyour life or have a poor
relationship with your kiddos oryour wife. Like, you just that
(26:50):
doesn't equal success.
And I think that I think thatthat's some of the issue with,
like, this rock starentrepreneur thing that's out
there. It's it's like, look atmy private jet and my yacht.
And, you know, I have ahelicopter that takes me from my
private jet to my yacht. Andit's like, no. That's not
everybody's definition ofsuccess.
(27:10):
That is one person's definitionof success. Success for you
might be that you have a happyfamily and you have a successful
business, or you have theability to take care of your
aging parents because you havethe time and the money and you
have a successful business.Right? I mean, there's so for
me, personal success must comewith, you know, professional
(27:31):
success and and vice versa.Like, there there are two things
that must work interchangeably.
Shannon, any rhythms orpractices, like, as it relates
Alex Judd (27:39):
to personal growth that, like, have been really
valuable for you?
Shannon Miles (27:43):
Yeah. I think the journey that I started on in
2021 was one that I willcontinue on for the rest of my
life in that, you know, I'mprioritizing reading and
learning about things that Ithink are going to help me grow
into the person that I'd like tobecome. And I'm shifting from
(28:05):
focusing on what I want toaccomplish and more on who I
want to be. We go to an amazingchurch and I've gotten a
tremendous amount of value outof it, but it's very seeker
friendly. And so I needed tofind another outlet that wasn't
a small group to dive into theBible and develop my faith.
(28:26):
And so doing Bible study with agirlfriend of mine will be a
rhythm that I keep, learningmore about the Holy Spirit. And
for me, I've always lovedpsychology. It was one of my
majors in college and alwayslearning about, quote, unquote,
new, like a forty year oldconcept of, like, internal
family systems and knowing nowmy parts and things that I used
(28:48):
to think were just mypersonality, and I'm recognizing
them as parts of who I am that Ican relate to where they live in
my body, how old they are, frommy childhood. And, honestly,
like, that has been somethingthat, in the past year, has
given me more growth andunderstanding and peace than
(29:09):
I've had in a long time.
Bryan Miles (29:11):
Wow.
Shannon Miles (29:11):
And for me, those two things are related because
the concept is, like, you've gotyour parts, but then you have
yourself that is over and aboveand should be driving the bus
for, you know, for all of theseparts. And for me, that's the
Holy Spirit. And so integratingand alchemizing some of these
things that I've learned overthe years and then putting them
into practice has been a rhythmthat I will definitely wanna
(29:33):
continue.
Alex Judd (29:34):
Praise God. Thanks for sharing that. My goodness. I
I could talk for another hourand a half, but unfortunately,
we don't have that much time.Before the final question, I
wanna make sure people know,like, we are, knocking on the
door of this thing called ownerlaunching.
It's so exciting. It's oapostrophe n r. I love that
(29:54):
because it's got a little bit ofattitude to it. Swagger, baby.
That's right.
I think I'm speaking correctlywhen, I say, like, the next best
action is to get on the waitlist, because, like, the
official launch happens here inthe next week or so. So we'll
put the link to join the waitlist in the show notes. And I
hope I'm allowed to say this.The first thing that y'all are
(30:15):
releasing is, like, a fulllength documentary that's
literally focused on businessowner stories. And, y'all, I I I
haven't been privileged to seethe whole thing yet, but I've
seen snippets and gosh, theproduction quality, the
storytelling, like, it's just socool.
It's so exciting to seesomething that you're like, oh
my gosh, this is the type ofthing that I would watch on a
(30:36):
Netflix or on Amazon, but it'sentirely around the topic of
business ownership and it'sequally entertaining and
educational. It's just likethrilling. So so I'm I'm
subscribed. I'm in if you can'ttell. And and, next best step is
to get on the wait list so thatyou find out about that because
that's gonna be really cool.
And then as we already shared,Brian and Shannon are gonna be
(30:58):
joining us in Austin at theOctober. That event is almost
70% sold out, which is awesome,but we still have spots left.
Yeah. I don't think I've sharedthat with y'all yet.
Specifically for impact drivenleaders that own or run a
business, and we're gonna befocusing on long game
leadership.
So one of the topics that wedidn't get into on this podcast
that I know Brian and Shannonare deeply passionate about is
(31:20):
the topic of legacy. Andparticularly, I haven't shared
this with y'all yet, but that'sone of the things that I wanna
get into in our session withyou, if that sounds good.
Bryan Miles (31:29):
Yeah. That sounds great.
Alex Judd (31:30):
Very cool. Final question to y'all before we
close out. If you're sittingdown with someone and they do
own a business and they're in aspot where they would just say,
hey, I know I'm where I'msupposed to be, but honestly, I
feel kind of discouraged. Likethere's those seasons where it's
way easier to see the thingsthat are wrong than it is to see
the things that are right. Whatwould you want them to know, and
(31:52):
what would you tell them to do?
And I'd love to hear from bothof you in this.
Bryan Miles (31:56):
I would probe to find out why they were
discouraged. And oftentimes, thereason why they're discouraged
is because they don't haveowner's intent. They're just
discouraged because something'sgone wrong in the business or
some system or process has gonehaywire or cash flow's an issue,
and they're not aiming atsomething bigger than that
moment. And so I would probe andsee, okay. Well, what is it?
(32:18):
And see if there's somethingthat we could kinda, you know,
look at for them to explore. ButI would do my very best to go,
okay. Now time out. Look up.Where do you want to head with
this business?
And try and reorient themtowards the long term vision of
where they're going with it. Sothat's that's what I would do.
Shannon Miles (32:36):
I think that's the perfect place to start. And
I think also reminding them thatthe season of discouragement is
just that. It's a season. It'snot going to last forever. And
no personal development comeswithout struggle.
No breakthroughs in yourbusiness come without struggle.
(32:58):
And so these seasons ofdisappointment or just some
discouragement, number oneshould be expected. And number
two are our time limited. And sofinding ways to care for
yourself during those seasonsand maybe making changes that
are important to get you back ontrack with the, with your intent
(33:19):
that you have for the business,or even taking time to define
what that is, I think are superimportant. And just calling it
out.
Sometimes just saying the thinghelps shrink it down to its
proper size. It's when it growsinside of us and lives in our
brains and has no outlet, andthis disappointment and
(33:41):
discouragement can become sooversized when we don't speak
it, when we don't share it, whenwe don't allow other people to
help us process it. So I wouldencourage that, the person in
that space to just don't do italone.
Alex Judd (33:57):
Mhmm. Man, so good. Well, I'm so grateful, number
one, for y'all's just investmentin me because that, breathes
life into what our business andmission is today, but then also
just for you generously sharingyour time. And I just I'm so
excited for everything thaty'all are building and
everything that God's going todo in and through it. So thanks
so much, y'all.
Shannon Miles (34:17):
Thank you for allowing us on. Really, this is
an exciting time for us tolaunch this, and we're grateful
that you gave us this platformeven in the beginning as we're
figuring it all out. But, yeah,super in line with the work that
you're doing and and areincredibly proud of you, Alex.
Thank you.
Alex Judd (34:37):
Well, man, that conversation was just so
powerful and so grateful fortheir example, for their
investment in me personally, andfor their willingness to share
their perspective with all ofyou. I hope that you found value
in that. As we've alreadystated, they are launching owner
right now. I think they'reliterally, as we release this
podcast, in the middle of themedia tour associated with it.
(34:58):
And I'm telling you, thisthing's coming like a tidal
wave.
So you know that if you'refollowing along with everything
they're doing. But if you're notyet, what's so cool is that they
have now released the featurelength documentary that is kind
of marking the launch of thisnew movement, this new mission.
And it's so cool because the theproduction quality is just
unbelievable. The time,attention to detail,
(35:19):
intentionality that really wentinto crafting stories and and
focusing on the relational sideof what it means to be a
business owner and what thatactually authentically looks
like. It's so, so, so well done.
And the principles that you canextract and the things that you
can learn and the inspirationthat you can draw is just so
powerful. If you want to getthat documentary and also follow
(35:39):
along with all of the insaneamount of free value that
they're just giving away rightnow, make sure you click the
link that's in the show notes.That also brings us to the other
announcement. Brian and Shannonare going to be joining us, the
Path4Growth community, inAustin, Texas in October. Y'all,
I am just so excited thatthey're going to be there for
this.
They're good friends of mine.They're mentors of mine. And
(36:01):
it's going to be so cool for usto ingrain their perspective
into this entire session on longgame leadership. That experience
is over 70% sold out now. It'sgonna be such a powerful time
for leaders to get together andreally say what would it look
like for us to level up in termsof the way that we are playing
the long game?
(36:21):
If you're someone that owns orruns a business or you have
decision making responsibilityin a business, I would love for
you to be there. If you've gotany questions, you can either
check out our website or clickthe link that's in the show
notes or just reach out to ourteam, and we'd be happy to jump
on the phone with you. There'sonly so many spots left. So if
you do wanna join us in Austin,the time is now. Y'all know
(36:42):
this.
We're rooting for you. We'repraying for you. We wanna see
you win. Remember, my strengthis not for me. Your strength is
not for you.
Our strength is for service.
Bryan Miles (36:49):
Let's go. Let's go. Let's go.
That's one thing that we're very much emphasizing
with owner is that the whole youhas to show up and that it's all
gotta work together. You can'tbe wildly successful in business
and wreck your life or have a arelationship with your kiddos or
your wife. Like, that doesn'tequal success. And I think that
that's some of the issue with,like, this rock star off newer
(00:21):
thing that's out there. It'sit's like, look at my private
jet and my yacht.
And, you know, I have ahelicopter that takes me from my
private jet to my yacht. Andit's like, no, that's not
everybody's definition ofsuccess. That is one person's
definition of success. Successfor you might be that you have a
happy family and you have asuccessful business or you have
(00:42):
the ability to take care of youraging parents because you have
the time and the money and youhave a successful business.
Right?
So for me, personal success mustcome with, you know,
professional success and andvice versa. Like, there there
are two things that must workinterchangeably.
Alex Judd (01:00):
Well, hey there. I'm Alex Judd, the founder of Path
for Growth, and this is the Pathfor Growth podcast. As a
business, we exist to helpimpact driven leaders like you
step into who they were createdto be so that others benefit and
God is glorified. Let's go.Well, welcome back.
This is part two of ourconversation with Brian and
Shannon Miles. And if youhaven't listened to part one, I
(01:22):
wanna make sure you do that. Butwe'll just do a brief rundown of
their bio before we get intowhat we're gonna talk about with
part two. They cofounded BELAY,a virtual staffing company, in
2010. They exited majorityownership of that company in
2021, but are still minoritystakeholders.
BELAY continues to grow, thrive,and make an impact around the
country. Since then, they've nowlaunched a brewing company
(01:43):
called Nofo Brewing that hasmultiple locations. They're also
part owners of a soccer club inThe UK because, of course, they
are. And they're deeply investedin the growth of companies
around the country and realestate through their holding
company, Miles AG. Beyond that,Brian and Shannon are smack dab
right now in the launch of a newnonprofit that is entirely
(02:05):
dedicated to serving businessowners.
It's called Oner. That's oapostrophe n r. We're gonna talk
about that some in the episodetoday, and then I'm gonna
highlight how you can followalong with Oner at the end of
this episode along with doublingdown on the special announcement
that we have regarding ourinvolvement with Brian and
Shannon moving forward. Today'sepisode, we're diving into two
(02:25):
topics that are especiallyrelevant for business owners.
We're gonna talk about scaling abusiness because that's an area
where it can be so easy tounnecessarily get bruised and
battered, and it's somethingthat Brian and Shannon just have
a wealth of experience in.
And then we're gonna talk aboutpersonal growth in the life of a
business owner. This issomething that they care deeply
about, and I think theirperspective is really, really
(02:47):
gonna add value to you. So withthat, let's jump into the
content. Make sure you stay onfor the end because we're gonna
double down on how you can getinvolved with owner and the
special announcement that Ireally wanna share with you.
Here's part two of myconversation with Brian and
Sheena Myers.
Okay. Let's shift. And this kindof goes from vision and growth
(03:10):
and expansion really well tosomething very practical for
business owners, which isdelegation. And I'd like to
start with a very specificquestion. In y'all's journey,
the multiple businesses you'veowned, what has been the hardest
thing for y'all individually todelegate?
And I think I'm asking thatquestion both from an emotional
standpoint because it was, like,hard to let go of emotionally.
(03:31):
And then what was just reallyhard practically? Like, it's
really hard to hand off thisspecific type of task or
responsibility. I'd love to hearboth of y'all's thoughts on
that.
Bryan Miles (03:40):
For for me, it was, handing off sales. I love sales.
I'm a great salesperson. And itwas really hard for me to hand
that off. But it it was alsonecessary because at that time,
I realized this was becoming alower payoff activity in our
business, and I needed to be andwe needed to be elevated in our,
you know, our duties to grow thebusiness at a different level.
(04:02):
And it it just kinda got to aplace where sales became a lower
payoff activity for mepersonally. But it was I love
sales. I I still love sales. Ijust I love salespeople because
all the great salespeople do isthey just help people. You know?
And I just I loved it.
Alex Judd (04:17):
Can we zoom in on that one? And then I'd love to
jump into yours, Shannon. Okay.You're you love sales. You're
great at sales.
You've come to the realizationthat you need to delegate it. Is
the thing that key like, holdsyou back or makes it difficult
that it's like, I don't know howto train people on this. Or is
it that, like, I love this and Iwanna hold on to this and it's
(04:39):
hard to let go.
Bryan Miles (04:40):
I can train it all day long. I mean, I led sales
teams. I can train salespeople.I just enjoyed it. But see,
that's that's it too.
I also I enjoyed the winconnected to it, and I needed to
delegate that joy as well as theactivity. And and it it because,
like, I I kinda hate thiscliched thing, but it's like,
(05:01):
you need to only do what onlyyou can do. Well, at that point
in our business, there were onlya handful of things that Shannon
and I needed to be doing thatwould really grow and excel the
business, and we needed to handoff everything rest. And that's
that's the difference, honestly,between what we see in our in
our kind of our, archetypes ofof business owners is that's the
(05:22):
difference when someone goesfrom being an entrepreneur to a
CEO. Mhmm.
As they they go, oh, I get it. II am now going to empower people
to take on my duties so that Ican really focus on the things
that only I can do. And that'swhen they really become the CEO
of their business. It's not thefirst day when they put that on
their on their business garden.It's when they start to hand off
things that they have been doingin a meaningful way that will
(05:45):
impact and scale the business.
Alex Judd (05:46):
What did the handoff timeline of sales look like?
Like, how long did it take you?And is there eighteen oh,
eighteen months. And what didyou what did you learn in that
time of eighteen months that younow apply to the way you
delegate things or that youwould share with others?
Bryan Miles (06:03):
It's easy to delegate now for me. I hand off
so many crazy things to todelegate. I'd and now I if I
choose to hang on to somethingbecause I just really like it
and I wanna do that, but it'snot because it's tied to a
business. It's more on thepersonal side. You know, I love
designing, homes and and, like,the things we do, and I like to
take on the ownership of that.
(06:24):
It's because I love it. Andthat's not necessarily a
business centric thing. So, inbusiness, I'm happy to hand off
just about everything. I mean,there's a handful of things that
I know I need to pay attentionto because I'm the leader, and I
have to see it this way. And Ihave to look at that thing
because you should expect me totake ownership of those tasks.
Shannon Miles (06:43):
Well, I think you delegated the the blocking and
tackling of sales after thateighteen month period. And you
you trained the sales team onhow to manage their funnel and
how to structure a sales calland what Socratic selling looked
like and
Bryan Miles (07:00):
Comp plans.
Shannon Miles (07:01):
Email campaigns and comp yeah. Exactly. All that
stuff. But then your sales focusjust evolved into networking.
And you were doing that allalong the way, but it became all
the more of your focus, which issales too.
That's true. You know? Not thatnetworking relationships are
transactional, but you'reinvesting in future sales
(07:22):
funnels and affiliates andthings like that. So I think it
just changed for you from beingmore blocking and tackling to a
higher level view of what saleslook like in our organization.
Bryan Miles (07:34):
Mhmm.
Alex Judd (07:35):
So in some ways, like, re repurpose. Like, you
still had an in some ways, anoutlet to do the things you
loved maybe. It just it foundits way in service of the
organization in a differentavenue. Does that feel right,
Brian?
Bryan Miles (07:47):
Yeah. It does. I think, you know, something else
I just thought of, a lot ofleaders, they don't delegate
because they want they wannahang on to that thing, like
booking their travel orsomething kind of simple. It's
because in their life,otherwise, as a business owner,
they don't solve a problem thatcan be done in fifteen minutes.
Their their problems are thirtydays to six months to kind of
(08:09):
resolve, so they never get thatsense of completion.
So that's why they hang on tothese lower payoff activities is
because they get a sense ofcompletion. They get a dopamine
hit that they otherwise don'tget. And that's we've seen that
happen a ton with you know,like, they're like, oh, I like
to book my travel or I like tomow my grass or I like to and
that's great. But the reason whyyou're doing that is because you
(08:29):
get a sense of completion thatas a business owner, you don't
otherwise get because the thingsyou're solving are so far. You
know, there's such a a long tailto to kind of bring them to
resolution.
Alex Judd (08:40):
It's one of the reasons, again, why I'm so
excited about what y'all arebuilding. And, spoiler alert,
y'all are joining us in Austinfor Long Game Leadership. Our
experience coming up at theOctober, that's gonna be blast
too. Because one of the thingswe're gonna talk about is, like,
in those things that do takeminimum ninety days to
accomplish and maximum threeyears to accomplish, how are you
staying encouraged and faithfulwhenever you're like, am I
(09:03):
applying my time, energy, effortto something that's actually
gonna pay off? You need outsideencouragement.
It's not even a want or apreference thing. It's like you
have to have it. And that's whythat community piece of what
y'all are building is so, socrucial. Shannon, how about you?
Practically, emotionally, whatwas the hardest thing to
delegate?
Shannon Miles (09:21):
Leadership.
Alex Judd (09:22):
Leadership. And and Yeah. What when you say
leadership, what did that looklike practically?
Shannon Miles (09:26):
Well, the way we built BELAY is entirely
different than the way we builtNOFO. From day one, excuse me,
we knew that we did not wanna bein the day to day of NOFO, but
we were directly funding it andinvesting it. So we worked side
by side with our CEO to launchthe company, to get all the
(09:48):
systems in place, to hire allthe right people. And then as
the years progressed, wedeveloped a leadership team. And
we, Brian and developed aleadership team.
And we, Brian and I, have neverbeen as deep into that business
as we were with BELAY, whichwhich means we never have led
side by side with the CEO ofNoFo like we all grew up as
(10:10):
leaders together at BELAY. Andso there was this leading, you
know, with with the person thatwould eventually replace you,
that you worked day in and dayout with. You were in the
meetings together. You weremaking the decisions together.
So it was a more natural handoffwhen it was time to replace
ourselves in BELAY.
But with NOFO, it has beendelegated leadership from day
(10:33):
one intentionally. But for me,that's the thing that I love the
most about business ownership. Ifreaking love leading. I love
seeing people develop. I loveseeing them grow.
I love seeing them be able toaccomplish things that would
have seemed impossible and takeon challenges that, you know,
they're using borrowedconfidence to to achieve. Like,
(10:54):
I love that part of it. And sothat has been, in this season of
my life, the most difficultthing to to delegate and let go
of. And it's been sort of abalancing act of how much do I
dive into leadership of NOFO,and how much do I lead through
the CEO who has done a great jobbut is not me. You know?
Alex Judd (11:14):
Mhmm. Sure.
Shannon Miles (11:15):
So that's on the professional front, that's been
the most difficult.
Alex Judd (11:18):
Yeah. What are some of the things that you've
learned or recognized that gavethat have given you the ability
to do that with increasedeffectiveness over time?
Shannon Miles (11:28):
Having really real and raw conversations with
with Joe and just, you know,deciding which battles to
pursue, and just, you know,letting him lead in a way that's
true to him, but also saying,you know, I observe this
situation and I have a coachingopportunity for you, And I would
(11:48):
like to see you consider, youknow, if this is something that
you can address with this teammember or whatever. And so it's
a real like I said, it's areally delicate balance of,
like, saying something andinterjecting my thoughts and
opinions as the owner and assomebody who is passionate about
leadership and personaldevelopment, balanced with
(12:10):
respecting him as a leader andhonoring the approach that he
has taken. And so we always workthrough it. Like I can't ever
think of a situation where it'sbeen like, Do this and, you
know, come report back to me onhow it's worked. We just have
the conversation together.
And ultimately, I have to justtrust him as a leader and
(12:31):
support him and remove anyroadblocks that he has to lead
his team because, ultimately,he's he's at the helm, and he's
doing a great job.
Alex Judd (12:39):
Yeah. Is there anything y'all have learned in
terms of, like, a filter for,like, like, when do I speak up
and, like, voice my opinionversus when do I bite my tongue
and, like, not say anything?Anything y'all reflect on or
principles that y'all leverageas it relates to that?
Shannon Miles (12:56):
I have to sleep on it. Really?
Alex Judd (12:58):
I have
Shannon Miles (12:58):
to sleep. Seriously. Yeah.
Alex Judd (13:00):
I mean, that takes an insane amount of I mean, my
issue is that if I say I have tosleep on it, I just end up not
sleeping and I think about itall night. So, like yeah. Are
you saying you have to sleep onit to really make a wise
decision on what you should do?Is that what you're saying?
Yeah.
Shannon Miles (13:15):
Yeah. I mean, I view leadership coaching
opportunities as big things. AndI don't think that Anytime I've
knee jerk reacted something'sirritated me and I think it
needs to change and I've reactedquickly, I haven't liked the way
that I've handled it. And so ifI observe something and then I
(13:35):
sleep on it and I wake up thenext day and it's still there,
then I'm usually able to run itthrough a lens of, like,
thoughtfulness and compassionand perspective that I didn't
have the day before.
Bryan Miles (13:49):
Yeah. I'm the exact opposite. I think a good throat
punch is perfect. Well, I'm justa different leader then. I
really respect your approach.
I just I trust my gut a lot. Andand I might be wrong and have to
go back and apologize, but Ifeel like I have good instincts
in business. And when I seesomething, I'm not gonna wait
very long because we gotta saysomething. But I that's my
(14:13):
approach. It's not the approach.
And so I I and I see her dothat, and I respect it. I'm just
like, I can never do that.
Alex Judd (14:18):
Yeah. You know? Is there a way that you deliver
feedback so that you don't just,like, crush people? Like, is
there things that you focus onin terms of tone or in terms of
the way you phrase it, or is itexpectation setting? What does
that look like, Brian?
Shannon Miles (14:32):
Yeah. Honey, how do you handle that?
Bryan Miles (14:36):
I I I generally will go to I mean, if if I see
something happen in the moment,then I'll just address it with
that person. But if it's aleadership thing, I'm gonna go
to the leader and say, hey. It'syou gotta fix this, or there's
something off here. Something'saskew. I need you to look into
this.
Or we keep seeing this thing.Why is this continuing to
happen? This is a leadershipthing. And then also teaching
(14:59):
principles along the way of,like, hey. Some things are just
tensions to manage, and thenthere's some things in business
that are just problems to solve.
And this problem should remainsolved, and it's not. And I'm
getting irritated, and I wantyou to know that because it's
time for you to fix it. Sothere's there's things like that
that we're our approach isdifferent, but I think that
(15:19):
we're equally as effective.
Alex Judd (15:21):
Yeah. We probably balance each other out really
well. Let's go to scaling.That's the next topic I wanted
to hit on, after delegation. I'dlove to just set you up for an
illustration that you share withme many times, and and the
phrase that you often use iswhite water seasons.
So can you kind of give people apicture of what you're talking
about there and why it's soimportant for business owners to
(15:43):
understand?
Bryan Miles (15:43):
Yeah. There's a book out called Predictable
Success. And in that book,there's seven stages of a
business life cycle, if youwill. And one of the early on
ones is called Whitewater. Andwhat happens when a business
gets started and a businessowner gets underway, there's a
season of, like, yeah, it's kindof early struggle, but then they
find this place of fun.
(16:05):
And in that stage, things arekinda moving along, and they're,
you know, they're making money,and people are happy, and
customers are happy, and it'sjust a fun season. But then if
they wanna go to the next level,they have to go through the
stage called white water. Andoftentimes, a lot of business
owners will go, I'm not doingthat. I'm not going into white
water. I'm gonna stay in thatfund.
And they limit themselves. Andbut that's okay. Some that's
(16:27):
their that's their decision.They just stay in that kind of
that bump up against white waterand go, I'm not getting in it.
But to get into a place whereyou replicate your business and
to you scale it up, you have toget into white water and kind of
battle your way through it toget to an area in what he calls
in the book of predictablesuccess.
And then if you kinda move pastpredictable success on the other
(16:48):
end of the spectrum, it feelslike a like a dial, if you will.
You start to get into a placewhere you don't wanna be. So the
goal is to kinda bounce backinto whitewater to embrace
change, to to kinda go through atough season of growth in your
business. So it it's Whitewateris a very important part of your
business that exercises themuscle of change that's
necessary for you to continue togrow.
Alex Judd (17:10):
I I would love to know from both of you, like,
what has characterized seasonsof Whitewater for you? Like, is
it decisions? Is itconversations? Actual things
that occur that enter you intothose whitewater seasons?
Shannon Miles (17:24):
Scale. I mean, anytime you're trying to scale
something and, go, I don't know,hypothetically speaking, from
one location of a brewery tothree in one year, that was very
that was very white watery. Andit's funny because it's it's
kind of a double edged swordbecause that you know, those
(17:45):
kind of scalable opportunitiesand acquisitions and let's open
this new location, that's thekind of stuff that gets the team
excited. You know? They're like,let's freaking go.
Let's storm the the gates, andlet's do this. And then you
commit to these things and thenthe practicality of making them
successful with the resourcesthat you have in place can be
(18:06):
very tumultuous. And, you know,as you get into the, Okay, how
are we going to operate all ofthese with success and ensure
that everything is up to thequality and standards that we
had when we had one location,like, that can be a lot for a
leadership team to navigate. Andso, you know, just like with
(18:28):
whitewater rafting, right? Likeyou can't stay in the class
fours and fives forever.
That's right. You've got to, youknow, focus all of your energy
on getting through that seasonknowing that once you're through
those rapids, you're gonna findcalmer waters.
Bryan Miles (18:44):
Mhmm. And I
Shannon Miles (18:44):
think it's incumbent on leaders to
recognize that you need thoseseasons of rest after periods of
quick scaling and whitewater sothat your team can recover, so
that you can rest, so that youcan celebrate what you just went
through and catch your breath.
Alex Judd (18:59):
Is it is it fair to say it's kind of like saying,
hey. We're gonna opt in for aseason of what feels like chaos?
Shannon Miles (19:05):
Yeah. I think that's a really good way to put
it. Yeah. Like, going into iteyes wide open. You know,
anytime you scale, whether it's,you know, one to three locations
or even just adding on a newservice line in your business,
there's gonna be some level ofchaos in it because there's a
lot of unpredictability.
Like, you just there's noguarantees when you take a risk
(19:25):
of how it's gonna turn out. Youcan mitigate risk. You can do
your analysis, like Brian saidearlier, and go into it fully
educated. But we can't controlall the variables that go into
business ownership, right?That's obvious.
And so you're gonna have chaos.And so just expecting that and
setting the team up for, youknow, acknowledgment of that and
(19:48):
making sure that they've got theenergy to to go into that season
of chaos is really important asleaders.
Bryan Miles (19:55):
Yeah. I think I think that that white water can
also look like what we call thechasms when we're talking about
it from an owner standpoint is,you know, these chasms happen
around 1,000,000 in revenue,5,000,000 in revenue,
10,000,000, 20 million, and50,000,000. And for you to go
from one to five, oftentimes,the things that got you to to
(20:16):
one will not be the things thatget you to five. And the things
that got you to five will not bethe things that get you to
10,000,000. And so you have togo through these seasons of
white water where you almosthave to break everything and and
cast net new vision and, like,to go to the next level.
We've seen it in, in ourbusinesses, but we've also seen
it in plenty of other businessesas well. It it creates this
(20:38):
natural white water that youhave to navigate.
Alex Judd (20:42):
Are there ever reasons where you know, you're
like, man, the way that wecontinue to move this thing
forward is enter the whitewater, embrace the chaos for a
season. Are there ever reasonswhere you would say it might be
wise to hold off and, like, tonot opt in just whenever you can
or whenever you start to see it?Anything stand out there to
(21:04):
y'all?
Shannon Miles (21:04):
I think people do that. We don't do that well.
Alex Judd (21:07):
Yeah. Is that right?
Shannon Miles (21:08):
Honestly. I think we're getting better at it, you
know, but we're just both veryambitious people, and we've been
able to, you know, bite off morethan we can chew and and figure
it out as we go. But, you know,back to what we talked about
earlier with our three yearfocus to freedom, I think we're
learning how to do that and say,okay. Yeah. This is
(21:29):
theoretically something that wecould pursue or an opportunity
that's been presented, and wecould do this.
But I don't think we should optinto that chaos right now. Like,
it's not going to get us anycloser to our focus to freedom.
And I think that's where havingvision for your overall life
matters. And that way, you canrun your business decisions
(21:50):
through that filter as well.
Alex Judd (21:52):
Yeah. Brian, it was a couple of phone calls ago that
we had that I I remember I waswrestling through a decision. It
was a people decision that youkind of shared the white water
illustration with me. You werelike, you know, what you're
viewing is this decision ofwhether or not you wanna enter
the white water. And I sharedwith you, hey.
Lily is gonna be born. I thinkit was, like, within a month is
(22:14):
where we were at. And I rememberyou sharing with me, like, that
might be a good reason to wait.Like you might wanna and I think
that was really good advice. AndAspen and I ended up talking
about it and Aspen, I reallyvalued her perspective too,
because she said, I think itwould be more stressful for you
and by extension us for you tosit on this till after.
(22:37):
Yeah. I think it would be betterfor us to just say like, trust
God, do the right thing and letthe chips fall where they may.
Yeah. And but a little bit ofthe freedom of feeling like,
man, we don't have to do thisright now. It's a decision was
so, so, so helpful.
So I was really grateful forthat advice. Okay. Well, let's
go to personal growth then. Iknow this is like well, we say
(23:00):
all the time, if you wanna putyour business in order, start by
putting yourself in order. Weare, like, deeply passionate
about personal growth forbusiness owners being its own
independent thing that they haveto focus on.
And I know that that's actuallya cornerstone of owner as well.
Like, y'all are really, reallyinvested in the personal health,
personal growth of businessowners. Why is it that this
(23:22):
particular area deemed such ahigh degree of importance for
the audience that you areseeking to serve with this new
organization?
Shannon Miles (23:29):
I think, for me, it goes to what you mentioned
earlier with, you know, there'sall these personalities online
and and these aspirationalbusiness owners that are flashy,
and you can have it all and, youknow, 10 x ing everything. And
it's when it leaves this itleaves this almost like a false
(23:51):
summit feel to me of whatsuccess looks like, when in
reality, you know, a lot ofthose people might be on their
third or fourth marriage andhave no relationship with their
children. And, you know, I can'tthink of anything worse than if
we would have gone through ourjourney with BELAY and at the
(24:11):
end of the day said, I can't bewith you anymore. We got you
know, like, all of the successwith business has crushed us,
and we can't we can't staytogether. Like, I can't think of
anything more devastating thanthat for me in my life.
So when I think about, you know,the opportunity to educate
business owners on theimportance of personal growth
(24:34):
and the importance of leadingyourself before you can lead
other people, doing the deepwork that business ownership
requires of you. I mean, nothinghas challenged my personal
development more than having tolead an organization where I'm
up there casting vision andleading from the stage if I
(24:56):
don't have my stuff together.You know, so nothing has
challenged me more than that.And I think business owners are
busy. You know, we have a lot onour plates, we have a lot that
we're responsible for, and itcan be really easy to just put
some of those important but noturgent tasks, so to speak, aside
and not put in the time to growpersonally because it feels like
(25:20):
I've got all these other reallyurgent, in my face things to do.
And we just want to educatebusiness owners to be like, No,
that is your most importantwork, is to is to work on
yourself and make sure thatyou're in a state of growth and
that you're doing the deep workthat is required of you to be
the kind of person that youwanna be, not just the kind of
(25:40):
business owner that you wannabe.
Alex Judd (25:43):
If we got rid of all the businesses tomorrow, right,
pray pray to God that doesn'thappen, but if we did that, are
there personal growth rhythmsthat y'all would want to
maintain independent of anybusiness ownership or anything
like that? But you would justsay, just for me to be a whole
and healthy person, these arethings that I want to
consistently and regularly do.What stands out for you all?
Bryan Miles (26:05):
The self care element, whether that's
journaling, reading, praying,meditating, working out,
investing in other peoplepersonally or, you know, through
mentoring, and then pursuingyour relationship with God. I
think that those are massivelyimportant things that are equal
in value to you growing inbusiness, not subject to or
(26:29):
smaller than. And that's onething that we're very much
emphasizing with owner is thatthe whole you has to show up and
that it's all gotta worktogether. You can't be wildly
successful in business and wreckyour life or have a poor
relationship with your kiddos oryour wife. Like, you just that
(26:50):
doesn't equal success.
And I think that I think thatthat's some of the issue with,
like, this rock starentrepreneur thing that's out
there. It's it's like, look atmy private jet and my yacht.
And, you know, I have ahelicopter that takes me from my
private jet to my yacht. Andit's like, no. That's not
everybody's definition ofsuccess.
(27:10):
That is one person's definitionof success. Success for you
might be that you have a happyfamily and you have a successful
business, or you have theability to take care of your
aging parents because you havethe time and the money and you
have a successful business.Right? I mean, there's so for
me, personal success must comewith, you know, professional
(27:31):
success and and vice versa.Like, there there are two things
that must work interchangeably.
Shannon, any rhythms orpractices, like, as it relates
Alex Judd (27:39):
to personal growth that, like, have been really
valuable for you?
Shannon Miles (27:43):
Yeah. I think the journey that I started on in
2021 was one that I willcontinue on for the rest of my
life in that, you know, I'mprioritizing reading and
learning about things that Ithink are going to help me grow
into the person that I'd like tobecome. And I'm shifting from
(28:05):
focusing on what I want toaccomplish and more on who I
want to be. We go to an amazingchurch and I've gotten a
tremendous amount of value outof it, but it's very seeker
friendly. And so I needed tofind another outlet that wasn't
a small group to dive into theBible and develop my faith.
(28:26):
And so doing Bible study with agirlfriend of mine will be a
rhythm that I keep, learningmore about the Holy Spirit. And
for me, I've always lovedpsychology. It was one of my
majors in college and alwayslearning about, quote, unquote,
new, like a forty year oldconcept of, like, internal
family systems and knowing nowmy parts and things that I used
(28:48):
to think were just mypersonality, and I'm recognizing
them as parts of who I am that Ican relate to where they live in
my body, how old they are, frommy childhood. And, honestly,
like, that has been somethingthat, in the past year, has
given me more growth andunderstanding and peace than
(29:09):
I've had in a long time.
Bryan Miles (29:11):
Wow.
Shannon Miles (29:11):
And for me, those two things are related because
the concept is, like, you've gotyour parts, but then you have
yourself that is over and aboveand should be driving the bus
for, you know, for all of theseparts. And for me, that's the
Holy Spirit. And so integratingand alchemizing some of these
things that I've learned overthe years and then putting them
into practice has been a rhythmthat I will definitely wanna
(29:33):
continue.
Alex Judd (29:34):
Praise God. Thanks for sharing that. My goodness. I
I could talk for another hourand a half, but unfortunately,
we don't have that much time.Before the final question, I
wanna make sure people know,like, we are, knocking on the
door of this thing called ownerlaunching.
It's so exciting. It's oapostrophe n r. I love that
(29:54):
because it's got a little bit ofattitude to it. Swagger, baby.
That's right.
I think I'm speaking correctlywhen, I say, like, the next best
action is to get on the waitlist, because, like, the
official launch happens here inthe next week or so. So we'll
put the link to join the waitlist in the show notes. And I
hope I'm allowed to say this.The first thing that y'all are
(30:15):
releasing is, like, a fulllength documentary that's
literally focused on businessowner stories. And, y'all, I I I
haven't been privileged to seethe whole thing yet, but I've
seen snippets and gosh, theproduction quality, the
storytelling, like, it's just socool.
It's so exciting to seesomething that you're like, oh
my gosh, this is the type ofthing that I would watch on a
(30:36):
Netflix or on Amazon, but it'sentirely around the topic of
business ownership and it'sequally entertaining and
educational. It's just likethrilling. So so I'm I'm
subscribed. I'm in if you can'ttell. And and, next best step is
to get on the wait list so thatyou find out about that because
that's gonna be really cool.
And then as we already shared,Brian and Shannon are gonna be
(30:58):
joining us in Austin at theOctober. That event is almost
70% sold out, which is awesome,but we still have spots left.
Yeah. I don't think I've sharedthat with y'all yet.
Specifically for impact drivenleaders that own or run a
business, and we're gonna befocusing on long game
leadership.
So one of the topics that wedidn't get into on this podcast
that I know Brian and Shannonare deeply passionate about is
(31:20):
the topic of legacy. Andparticularly, I haven't shared
this with y'all yet, but that'sone of the things that I wanna
get into in our session withyou, if that sounds good.
Bryan Miles (31:29):
Yeah. That sounds great.
Alex Judd (31:30):
Very cool. Final question to y'all before we
close out. If you're sittingdown with someone and they do
own a business and they're in aspot where they would just say,
hey, I know I'm where I'msupposed to be, but honestly, I
feel kind of discouraged. Likethere's those seasons where it's
way easier to see the thingsthat are wrong than it is to see
the things that are right. Whatwould you want them to know, and
(31:52):
what would you tell them to do?
And I'd love to hear from bothof you in this.
Bryan Miles (31:56):
I would probe to find out why they were
discouraged. And oftentimes, thereason why they're discouraged
is because they don't haveowner's intent. They're just
discouraged because something'sgone wrong in the business or
some system or process has gonehaywire or cash flow's an issue,
and they're not aiming atsomething bigger than that
moment. And so I would probe andsee, okay. Well, what is it?
(32:18):
And see if there's somethingthat we could kinda, you know,
look at for them to explore. ButI would do my very best to go,
okay. Now time out. Look up.Where do you want to head with
this business?
And try and reorient themtowards the long term vision of
where they're going with it. Sothat's that's what I would do.
Shannon Miles (32:36):
I think that's the perfect place to start. And
I think also reminding them thatthe season of discouragement is
just that. It's a season. It'snot going to last forever. And
no personal development comeswithout struggle.
No breakthroughs in yourbusiness come without struggle.
(32:58):
And so these seasons ofdisappointment or just some
discouragement, number oneshould be expected. And number
two are our time limited. And sofinding ways to care for
yourself during those seasonsand maybe making changes that
are important to get you back ontrack with the, with your intent
(33:19):
that you have for the business,or even taking time to define
what that is, I think are superimportant. And just calling it
out.
Sometimes just saying the thinghelps shrink it down to its
proper size. It's when it growsinside of us and lives in our
brains and has no outlet, andthis disappointment and
(33:41):
discouragement can become sooversized when we don't speak
it, when we don't share it, whenwe don't allow other people to
help us process it. So I wouldencourage that, the person in
that space to just don't do italone.
Alex Judd (33:57):
Mhmm. Man, so good. Well, I'm so grateful, number
one, for y'all's just investmentin me because that, breathes
life into what our business andmission is today, but then also
just for you generously sharingyour time. And I just I'm so
excited for everything thaty'all are building and
everything that God's going todo in and through it. So thanks
so much, y'all.
Shannon Miles (34:17):
Thank you for allowing us on. Really, this is
an exciting time for us tolaunch this, and we're grateful
that you gave us this platformeven in the beginning as we're
figuring it all out. But, yeah,super in line with the work that
you're doing and and areincredibly proud of you, Alex.
Thank you.
Alex Judd (34:37):
Well, man, that conversation was just so
powerful and so grateful fortheir example, for their
investment in me personally, andfor their willingness to share
their perspective with all ofyou. I hope that you found value
in that. As we've alreadystated, they are launching owner
right now. I think they'reliterally, as we release this
podcast, in the middle of themedia tour associated with it.
(34:58):
And I'm telling you, thisthing's coming like a tidal
wave.
So you know that if you'refollowing along with everything
they're doing. But if you're notyet, what's so cool is that they
have now released the featurelength documentary that is kind
of marking the launch of thisnew movement, this new mission.
And it's so cool because the theproduction quality is just
unbelievable. The time,attention to detail,
(35:19):
intentionality that really wentinto crafting stories and and
focusing on the relational sideof what it means to be a
business owner and what thatactually authentically looks
like. It's so, so, so well done.
And the principles that you canextract and the things that you
can learn and the inspirationthat you can draw is just so
powerful. If you want to getthat documentary and also follow
(35:39):
along with all of the insaneamount of free value that
they're just giving away rightnow, make sure you click the
link that's in the show notes.That also brings us to the other
announcement. Brian and Shannonare going to be joining us, the
Path4Growth community, inAustin, Texas in October. Y'all,
I am just so excited thatthey're going to be there for
this.
They're good friends of mine.They're mentors of mine. And
(36:01):
it's going to be so cool for usto ingrain their perspective
into this entire session on longgame leadership. That experience
is over 70% sold out now. It'sgonna be such a powerful time
for leaders to get together andreally say what would it look
like for us to level up in termsof the way that we are playing
the long game?
(36:21):
If you're someone that owns orruns a business or you have
decision making responsibilityin a business, I would love for
you to be there. If you've gotany questions, you can either
check out our website or clickthe link that's in the show
notes or just reach out to ourteam, and we'd be happy to jump
on the phone with you. There'sonly so many spots left. So if
you do wanna join us in Austin,the time is now. Y'all know
(36:42):
this.
We're rooting for you. We'repraying for you. We wanna see
you win. Remember, my strengthis not for me. Your strength is
not for you.
Our strength is for service.
Bryan Miles (36:49):
Let's go. Let's go. Let's go.
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